The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

High on their own supply

Posted on July 05, 2017 by

Here’s the doom-and-gloom front-page headline of the Herald today:

It refers to a new report from the Nuffield Trust called “Learning From NHS Scotland”. Its 61 pages contain precisely one mention of independence. Let’s see what it said.

In other words, the NHS in Scotland is being harmed because the Scottish press is so desperate to do it down that it’s become politically difficult to address its challenges for fear of the storm of media criticism that will result, regardless of the merits of the actual measures.

(Such as headlines blaming the health service’s problems on your party’s pursuit of its legitimate political goal, as mandated by the electorate in a decade-long stream of election victories, for example. Inexplicably, the Herald’s story and the editorial leader column inside both fail to mention the report’s reference to a “hostile press” being a key component of the issue.)

Congratulations to the Herald for reporting the situation that it and its media colleagues have created. But it’s a pretty drastic way to solve the summer-season news shortage.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 05 07 17 10:56

    High on their own supply | speymouth

240 to “High on their own supply”

  1. McDenster

    Some careless twit of a driver knocked me down two days before last Christmas. I broke my back and my beloved Btwin. Like many folk I’ve spoken to, the treatment and care I received from NHS Scotland was 1st Class. It’s evident they’re doing something right. As miserable as I have been at times, reading WOS e.g. constantly gives me a boost and reminds me to strive to be a truthful, straight up chap – unlike these lying Loon barstewards.

  2. ScotsRenewables

    OK folks, here’s what to do:

    Print out as many copies of this wee article as necessary, nip round to your local newsagent/supermarket/petrol forecourt and casually slip one inside every copy of the Herald.

  3. Swiss Perspective

    The purpose of the press should be to report news and not create it.

    Against what the report actually says, the chorus of newspaper headlines is quite staggering. I have to question the UK’s democratic credentials.

  4. Stoker

    BBC (Scotland 07:30 headlines) also at it this morning. Reporting that later today it will make be made clear if Scotland’s in recession or not and it’s all down to, apparently, uncertainty created by the SNP’s refusal to take a second Indyref off the table. These b@$t@rd$ (The BBC) need to be taken to task over these lying claims and accusations. *sigh*

  5. Dan Huil

    Britnat press blames Scottish government for britnat press.

  6. G H Graham

    Pro Britnat extremist newspaper, “The Herald” prints a story admitting it is the print media (itself included) which is damaging the NHS in Scotland.

    Isn’t it nice to read some honesty from Scotland’s so called “journalists” for a change?

  7. MJS Dundee

    Not clear who the Herald’s “experts” are, not the report authors evidently, rather people they happened to interview who weren’t warning of any such thing. That headline goes in the “completely made-up havering gibberish” category then. (Just a tad familiar).

    As does the R. Shortbread Scots economy doom hilarity of some minutes ago. We’ve been “lagging” rest of the UK growth for decades, centuries in fact, wonder why that is?

    Why oh why do these people only ever consider what happened last week or year – picture is much clearer over many years and decades, as are root causes. Just as that multi-year NHS report shows a truer picture, same is true with longer term view of the economy as a whole.

    Of course there’s a very good reason why they don’t want to look at the long term. Scotland’s record is the worst in the developed world over the last century in some of the key indicators. And there was no Holyrood or SNP to blame. Bit pointless looking at it then, … n’est pas?

  8. ScotsRenewables

    Seriously folks, Wings is a bubble. We are talking to ourselves. Guerilla action in the form of inserting Wings articles in newspapers is a way of communicating outside that bubble.

    Is anyone already doing it? This morning’s is a no-brainer.

    In the absence of an appropriate and timely Wings article an appropriate A6 gem from IndyPosterBoy is a good alternative.

  9. Scott

    Hundreds of English mental health patients forced to travel hundreds of miles to Scotland for treatment, due to bed shortages.

    In only one English county, Oxfordshire, nearly 500 patients have had to travel to Scotland for treatment over the last three years. Some have had to make the 532 miles journey to Inverness!

    Why don’t you see this reported in MSM and have looked ob BBC Scotland web and nothing.

  10. donald anderson

    I have always had great care from NHS Scotland.

    I used to be a big fan of the Herald afore it turned nasty and distrust whole of the Herald stable.

  11. orri

    Think the gist of those two segments is that the problem is that any attempt by the SNP to govern anything and thus maintain confidence in it simply to get on with the day job will be met with propaganda designed to undermine it.

    A blatant example of such tactics is why to this day the combined emergency services in Scotland have to pay VAT. The SNP can’t be allowed to make efficient use of resources and will be prevented from doing so even when that’s against public interest.

    In the case of the NHS it’s being portrayed as Holyrood being feart to make any changes in case they’ll be sabotaged which will put peoples lives at risk.

    On top of which the unionist parties are determined to prevent a second independence referendum. Which kind of begs the question why they go to such desperate ends to keep the SNP out of power.

  12. farnorthdavie

    More bad news….and they wonder why we are in recession! Shower of useless bandits; once they are done destroying our Government, and therefore our country, they won’t have anyone left who can afford to buy their tripe.

  13. galamcennalath

    The media are failing to fulfil their role in the democratic process.

    In Scotland, and the wider UK, the media has become little more than an instrument to undermine democracy. In a state which is fundamentally undemocratic, democracy itself is the enemy and its biggest threat. The media have slipped into the comfortable niche of protectors of the Establishment. Instead, they should be the voice of the People.

    Their role should be to inform, to investigate, and to hold politicians to their promises.

    Instead they misinform, cover up, and take highly partisan positions making policy themselves.

  14. Meg merrilees

    Greta article.

    Today’s headline on the BBC Scotland website is :

    UK could learn lessons from Scottish NHS and the article goes on to quote the praises from the Nuffield Trust.
    It doesn’t have any mention of the criticism of the media – funnel enough, and no withering, negative comments from the ‘Opposition leaders” for a change. Neither is it open to btl comments.

    So refreshing to read a positive story about our wonderful SNHS.

    How was it reported in the newspapers?

    The Herald: Experts warn NHS at risk from Independence focus.
    The Scotsman: NHS forced to cancel 130 operations every week.
    The Times: NHS faces horrendous budget cuts in scotland
    The Daily Telegraph: SNP’s deep cuts ‘will hurt NHS”
    The ‘i’: Thousands of routine ops rejected on NHS
    The Daily Express: NHS cancels 20 ops every day.

    What a shower of deceivers! Push out all the gossip and bad news and accept none of the blame.

    Great Article, timely exposure of these plonkers.

  15. John H.

    Some years ago my left hand was almost severed in an accident. Thanks to the Scottish NHS I now have 95% use of my hand.

    God bless the SNHS.

  16. Calum McKay

    The Herald in particular should know better, their behavour is deplorable!

    The story shold be about the NHS in Scotland being better than other nations in the uk despite Scotland having a long and uneviable record on health due to smoking, drink, environment, housing and diet.

    At this time why?

  17. Glamaig

    it would be great if some SNHS high heid yin could come out with guns blazing about the media treatment of the SNHS… with some examples.

    Also, we hear a lot about ‘cuts’ in the media… but never any mention of where those cuts originate – from the steady reduction of Scotland’s block grant from Westminster because of reduced spending in England – the media are happy to leave that hanging with the clear insinuation that it is the ‘SNP’ doing the cuts (they don’t even say Scottish Government – its always ‘SNP’.

  18. Graeme

    I had a heart attack at the beginning of last year and have nothing but praise for the all the staff who attended to me including and especially the paramedics and it’s no exaggeration to say it’s thanks to them all I’m alive today

    Likewise a few years ago my daughter broke her arm while on holiday and was attended to at an English hospital and her care was also superb, It’s about time the media and politicians stopped using the NHS (Scottish or English) as a political punchbag to score political party points and give some credit where it’s due.


  19. Legerwood

    Meg merrilees @ 9.35am

    Re cancelled ops

    Here are the full stats from May 2017 published by ISD yesterday and which form the basis for the screaming headlines. As you will see once the full data set is shown the cancelled op story looks a bit different.

    “”Main points
    ? The total number of planned operations across NHSScotland during May 2017 was 29,997, a decrease of 3.0% from 30,924 during May 2016.
    ? 2,631 operations (8.8% of planned operations) were cancelled in May 2017, ranging from 6.3% to 11.8% across individual NHS Boards. This compares to 2,849 (9.2%) in May 2016.
    ? Of all planned operations: 1,053 (3.5%) were cancelled by the patient; 1,001 (3.3%) were cancelled based on clinical reasons by the hospital; 512 (1.7%) were cancelled by the hospital due to capacity or non-clinical reasons; 65 (0.2%) were cancelled due to other reasons””

    Out of almost 30,000 planned operations 512 were cancelled because of capacity or non-clinical reasons. Looks quite different when put in context.

  20. Street Andrew

    Of course what the Tory/Unionist types want to do is be able to do what they are doing in South Britain viz carve the whole NHS into bite size saleable pieces.

    The in house relief staff organisation is being or has been sold off according to something I read or heard on the radio recently. More public money redistributed to private profit.

    Mr *unt is quietly getting on with the job. A bite at a time.

    English NHS is by all accounts in crisis. Deliberately so. Makes it easier to claim that privatising it will improve matters.

    And for the same reason that the nationalised industries were a shambles in the 70s: government won’t fund it properly and won’t let the mangement who know what they are doing get on with the job.

    My own experience of NHS Scotland is that it works rather well actually. I’ve been genuinely impressed and across a number of services for my own needs and those of the elderly parent.

  21. Glamaig

    From the BBC article, here is Scottish Labour’s predictably twisted view on the subject:

    However, Scottish Labour said the report should act as a serious “wake-up call” to the SNP.
    The party’s health spokesman Anas Sarwar added: “It includes suggestions that the SNP is avoiding taking the decisive action our NHS needs because of its obsession with independence

    No it doesnt.

  22. Bill McDermott

    Anent the payment of VAT by our emergency services, has any journalist ever asked the reason for this? As far as I can tell, it is to do with the fact that the services were made national as opposed to regional on amalgamation. But Westminster declarations that the SG was told this before the amalgamations doesn’t address the real question.

    Why does the Treasury take that view? Does it upset its calculations? Is there something inviolable in the way it does its calculations?

    Then we have the ‘national’ Royal Ulster Constabulary which doesn’t pay VAT. Should we add ‘Royal’ to Police Scotland or the Scottish Fire Service?

    Where is Ruth the Mooth when explanations aren’t forthcoming.

  23. Fergus Green

    @Mag Merilees 9.35:

    The Scottish home page of the State Broadcaster is uncharacteristically littered with positive headlines today:

    -UK could ‘learn lessons’ from Scottish NHS

    -Scots economy rebounds in first quarter

    -HMRC wins Rangers tax case ruling

    -Glasgow considers Orange march ban

    Someone’s gonna get the sack.

  24. call me dave

    But the daily wrecker says the SNHS is doomed page 1,8 and 9 buildings falling down £1Bn to fix and SNP very bad… 🙂

    How refreshing to see and hear the other side of the story in the National and even radio shortbread give it a lukewarm mention this morning all be it with the usual spoiler thrown in.

    Looking forward to my beany hats and badges coming at last.

    I have been reading the posts for a week or two without commenting,taking a wee break from the MSM.

    Wings is full of good comments and ideas great for keeping us all informed about what’s really happening.

  25. starlaw

    Yipee … We are not in recession Well done SNP

  26. Ghillie

    I think everyone throughout the British Isles must all have personal cause to thank God for the NHS.

    I know I do and there is no way I can ever thank the SNHS enough.

    I wonder if any of these so called journalists dare admit their ‘profession’ whenever they have to attend hospital or visit a loved one…

  27. ScotsRenewables

    Sorry to keep harping on about this, but once again the discussion is nothing but lots of indignant YoonMeejaBAAAD outpouring when 99% of the people reading this already know and agree.

    Stu is doing an absolutely fantastic job with a steady stream of articles like this, detailed, well-researched and largely unchallengeable. What are we doing to get this information to where it is needed? As far as I can see at the moment we are operating in a total bubble, maybe a hundred thousand committed Yessers talking to each other, forming groups and alliances with each other – and zero reachout or crossover to where it is needed.

    OK, my idea of printing these articles and other info sheets and putting them inside large numbers of newspapers may be impractical, or even possibly deranged – though I would like to know why – but if so what else can we do to get these articles to where they need to be read?

    (Stu, feel free to delete this if it is too OT too soon – I will come back later and make this point again)

  28. Cuilean

    MSM & the BBC are harming the Scottish economy.

    Independence is the only solution for our oppressed country

  29. Glamaig

    while the latest Scottish GDP growth figures are welcome, there’s a classic example of ‘framing’ in these reports.

    They always compare the Scottish figures with those for the UK economy as a whole, and say for example Scotland is ‘lagging’ the rest of the UK. Whereas they could compare all the regions of the UK and say that London, the SE, and Scotland *lead* the UK in GDP…

  30. Marcia

    Any official report published that has 99.9999999% praise for the Scottish Government’s actions will be ignored by the media to point out the 0.0000001% problem or failure.

  31. Annie for Indy

    All part of a concerted campaign. Yesterday I received a petition from 38 degrees asking me to sign in protest at the destruction of our health service in Scotland. I replied by asking them who or what is behind 38 degrees and to remove me from their mailing list. Not the first time a petition from them has SNP bad stamped all over it!
    No reply to my enquiry!

  32. Robert Peffers

    @Stoker says: 5 July, 2017 at 8:59 am:

    “These b@$t@rd$ (The BBC) need to be taken to task over these lying claims and accusations. *sigh*”

    They are being taken to task, Stoker, but it cannot be done by going, cap in one hand and tugging the forelock with the other hand, to any of the other parts of the Westminster Establishment.

    It can only be achieved by doing it the slow way that is actually having effect. That is by not paying a licence fee to the Westminster Establishment to watch TV and not buying newspapers or using their on-line pages.

    It is a popular belief that the TV Licence fee allows the public to watch the BBC and the fee goes to finance the BBC. IT DOES NOT.

    They BBC do not even still collect the money as they have farmed that job out to a private, profit making, debt collecting company.

    The TV Licence fee goes to HM Treasury and the Westminster Establishment makes a grant to the BBC. Thus the BBC’s true paymaster is factually directly the Westminster Establishment which, unless anyone can show otherwise, is the mouthpiece of rich, and often anonymous, big business. Who, incidentally also own the other TV networks and the dead Tree Press.

    The only way for the public to stop the 24/7/365 propaganda is to not pay the licence fee and not buy the Dead Tree Publications and that is a slow but sure method of eventually shutting them down.

    I read on-line yesterday that the BBC is going to have an internal revolution and be re-born in a form to suit the modern era. Seems younger people are no longer listening and reading the propaganda and the BBC thinks it can change that. I very much doubt it can actually do so.

    I have had to switch off BBC Radio Jockland now for several days because off the unrelenting torrents of biased and openly hostile to Scotland pish pouring out of the speakers.

    They know that their core audience is going down the drain and they are really sounding quite desperate now and have dropped any semblance of attempted subtlety for out and out, in your face, anti-SNP/SG/Scottish propaganda.

    In other words they are aware they are only preaching to the unconverted and are losing what user base the still have.

    This morning they had a Hecht Heid Ane from the Orange Order on claiming that the OO are not anti-Catholic and that Westminster is not a discrimatory organisation.


    Note the parts I marked in bold in Article II of the act of Union which plainly show the treaty of union itself is obviously biased in favour of England.

    I refer them to Article II of the Treaty of Union 1707:-

    “II. ‘That the Succession to the Monarchy of the united Kingdom of Great-Britain, and of the Dominions thereunto belonging, after her most sacred Majesty, and in default of Issue of her Majesty, be, remain, and continue to the most Excellent Princess Sophia, Electress and Duchess Dowager of Hanover, and the Heirs of her Body, being Protestants, upon whom the Crown of England is settled, by an Act of Parliament made in England, in the twelfth Year of the Reign of his late Majesty King William the Third, entitled, An Act for further Limitation of the Crown, and better securing the Rights and Liberties of the Subject. And that all Papists, and Persons marrying Papists, shall be excluded from, and for ever incapable to inherit, possess, or enjoy the imperial Crown of Great-Britain, and the Dominions thereunto belonging, or any Part thereof. And in every such Case, the Crown and Government shall from Time to Time descend to, and be enjoyed by such Person, being a Protestant, as should have inherited and enjoyed the same, in case such Papist, or Person marrying a Papist, was naturally dead, according to the Provision for the Defcent of the Crown of England, made by another Act of Parliament in England, in the first Year of the Reign of their late Majesties King William and Queen Mary, entitled, An Act declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject, and settling the Succession of the Crown.

    ‘Nuff said, except to notice that Article II of the Treaty of Union refers to the soon to be Parliament of the United Kingdom as the Parliament of England.

  33. Peter McCulloch

    I don’t see these relentless attacks on the Scottish Government’s management of the Scottish Health service by unionist politicians aided and abetted by their compliant media attack dogs ending any time soon.

    This is part of the ploy used by unionists, if people are told often enough that the NHS is so bad under the SNP then they hope people will believe it .

    How often do you read letters in the local papers from people who have had to go into Hospital and are surprised that things aren’t as bad as they had read, and praise their treatment and staff.

    Interestingly unionists never really been challenged by their compliant media to provide any coherent solutions to dealing with the stresses facing our NHS.

  34. Clydebuilt

    Scots renewables . . .,.

    Exactly were talking to each other in a bubble , , print off articles put in newspapers , through letterboxes, etc. . . Time to get out there . .

    Keep reading WoS, , spread the message beyond the site………

  35. Phil Robertson

    ” … its media colleagues have created.”

    I think you’ll find, like the tango, it takes two to polarise. If the Scottish Government showed anything like competence in its administration of the NHS, things would be a lot better, irrespective of the media’s position.

    Even the old fig leaf that things are even worse in England appears to withering. In other parts of the Nuffield report that you gloss over, it reports that cuts of around 8% are necessary to balance the NHS books, something approaching twice what is required in Engerland.

    So the old tactic, avoid the significant news and have a pop at the messenger, in this case the Herald.

  36. Clydebuilt

    Scots renewables . . .,.

    Exactly we’re talking to each other in a bubble , , print off articles put in newspapers , through letterboxes, etc. . . Time to get out there . .

    Keep reading WoS, , spread the message beyond the site………

  37. jfngw

    Massive groan herd emanating from Scottish media outlets as they are forced to send recession stories to garbage bin (or store for there future use, they hope). Now they need to scour the data to find the negativity and hopefully the word independence is in there somewhere so the data can be misrepresented.

    I think the short term growth will now take a back seat with the media, it will be long term trends since this number isn’t as good. They will never compare the different financial regions of the UK since Scotland is rarely at the bottom, they would of course if they were. They will always compare it with rest of UK, distorted by London & SE figures.

  38. Cairnallochy

    My wife and I between us spent about 2 hours yesterday trying to set right Scots who have been out of the country for 40-plus years and have swallowed MSM bullshit whole. Given that their views are in the last analysis irrelevant, I have increasingly come to regard to this as wasted time. For example, the Scot – Londoner was anxious to tell us what “folk down there” are saying, all of which was utter rubbish.

    Such views included, for example, that people in England are worried that Nicola is going to “open the floodgates” to millions of Turkish and Ukrainian migrants but he seemed unaware that neither country is actually in the EU. The man was also worried that with a hard border, he would need to have a passport to get back into “his” country. The highlight however was a stern warning that an independent Scotland would not be allowed to keep Trident although he was rather taken aback to hear that we can’t wait to get shot of it.

    We gave him some SNP material including a copy of The National and leaflets on SG achievements and on Misreporting Scotland but my overall feeling is reflected in the shortest common biblical quotation. I begin to wonder if we are on the same planet as England, far less the same landmass.

  39. John Graham

    We are definitely losing the “propoganda” war. The MSM have been deliberately misrepresenting and distorting every news item to discredit the Scottish Government. The headline in this mornings Herald is just another example. The BBC this morning led their Scottish news bulletin with further anti independence news, sorry, I should have said ‘lies’! The Scottish Government MUST be more vocal in countermanding this biased reporting.
    The wider public, who in general are politically placid, are being fed a constant stream of subliminal, and in some cases BLATANT lies. This MUST have a cumulative negative effect on their feelings regarding independence. The SNP and the wider YES movement will have to adopt a more vigorous and defiant strategy to overcome this.
    Relying solely on ‘social media’ alone to get our message across is NOT the answer. The MSM, the BBC & STV must be called to account and challenged at every turn.

  40. Ian McCubbin

    My usual rant; another reason why we need Independnece now along with having to suffer unionist MP Luke Graham

  41. Still Positive

    Re cancelled operations.

    10 years ago I was waiting for a hip op and had my pre-op the day before and been given a date in 2 weeks, just inside the then 18-week limit, when I got a phone call from the hospital asking if I was available as they may have a cancellation. I told them I was and prepared to go in. When they phoned me to confirm I told them I could not get a lift as all family and friends were at work so they sent a taxi for me.

    Although the lady’s op was cancelled there was still a hip operation done that day, me, and one person off the waiting list.

  42. Col

    The media in Scotland are the biggest threat to our democracy, actually I even wonder if we can claim to be a democracy when our national broadcaster which many people rely on for information is so blatantly against the SNP and the indy movement.
    The behaviour of the BBC in Scotland during and after recent elections including our independence referendum has been absolutely appalling and not doing anything about it will probably lose us our objective.
    The BBC will play its part in the ulsterisation of Scotland if that’s what it takes. They are experts in controlling the narrative and manipulating events to suit it.
    If the SNP feel for whatever reason that it would be counter productive to challenge them then it really is up to you and I.
    I think we need a campaign of non payment of the licence fee and we need to do it soon. For that we would need a public figure willing to stand up and lead that campaign.

  43. CardiffJock

    On a lighter note, whilst I am guilty of Schadenfreude and in the bigger picture it’s not great for Scottish football as a whole –

    I can’t help but smile at Rangers (whether you call them old or new) utterly humiliating exit from European football to a buch of part-timers from the 4th best club in that European superstate Luxembourg.

    All the bigoted,sectarian, ‘WATP’, ideologically indy-hating scum can GTF. And shove your flag up your erses.

  44. Cairnallochy

    @Scott 9.14

    Interesting. When out leafleting, I am invariably met by a local Labour stalwart who is anxious to inform me that anyone in Scotland who is seriously ill or needs major surgery needs to go south to Newcastle or beyond since meeting such demands is beyond the capabilities of NHS Scotland.

    As usual, there is little point arguing but I look forward to hearing from him how many of the operations NHS Scotland cannot carry out have had to be postponed or delayed or why they are even scheduled to take place anyway.

  45. Doug Bryce

    > if Scotland’s in recession or not and it’s all down to, apparently, uncertainty created by the SNP’s refusal to take a second Indyref off the table

    Breaking News : Scotlands economy actually grew Q1 2017 at faster rate than UKs.

    So – Will the BBC retract their opening piece on BBC radio Scotland this morning which implied any slow down was the Scottish Governments fault (without out suggesting what fiscal powers they have to grow economy). A blatant attempt to talk down the economy of Scotland.

    The *real* story is that entire UK economy is slowing down probably as result of Brexit releated fears.

    The BBC is little better than a North Korean state broadcaster outputting fact-less propaganda.

  46. Peter McCulloch

    I don’t like mentioning the name of the Newspaper but I read on line today’s Guardian a story about the NHS in England

    Doctors forced to plead with NHS for treatments for patients, BMJ finds growing healthcare rationing means GPs are having to submit exceptional requests for treatments including cataract removals and new hips and knees

  47. stu mac

    @Col says:
    5 July, 2017 at 11:36 am
    The media in Scotland are the biggest threat to our democracy,

    Not just in Scotland. The BBC (and Sky news and to a lesser extent the other broadcasters) are the propaganda arm of the Tories these days, with a few minor exceptions – throughout the whole UK. Over Lybia, Syria and the Middle East in general they support the neo-liberal war-mongering agenda, I cite this as the most obvious and nastiest example.

  48. Clydebuilt

    Doug Bryce @11.49am

    The BBC is worse than the North Korean state broadcaster, We have to pay for it!

    Scotland must be the only country in the world where the population have to pay a license fee to another country’s state broadcaster to run down our own government.

  49. Dave McEwan Hill

    There is a coordinated attack on NHS Scotland running across all the media in Scotland today. The first coordinated attack on NHS Scotland didn’t stick as well as they had hoped so they are back again.

    The media is our final enemy. Despite huge success on social media we are not dealing very effectively with the mainstream media

  50. Edward

    Maybe its me, but if Scotland has seen an increase of
    0.8% and the UK as a whole (which obviously includes Scotland) saw a growth of 0.2%

    Does it not follow that the UK excluding Scotland actually saw a decrease of minus 0.6% , meaning recession in the rest of the UK ?

    Maybe someone can clarify

  51. Sinky

    Again its high time the SNP had a pro active rebuttal unit which posts background context on NHS, education, farming CAP payments, economy etc on their web site so that the 100,000 plus members can respond to Unionist claims.

    Press/ BBC must be gutted that we are not in recession.

  52. Doug Bryce

    Funnily it was the Rangers big tax case in 2011 that taught me never to trust the Scottish media. Up until the very day Rangers were put into administration the media were in denial. Simply refused to investigate / report that Scotland’s biggest team faced certain liquidation.

    The only place to report the information was, of course, the infamous RangersTaxCase blog.

  53. galamcennalath

    Sometimes I do wonder…..

    Is the media an effective force against independence?

    Maybe. They keep the gullible who err to the status quo from embracing alternative ideas.

    However, they offend an awful lot of more aware people too. They literally insult the intelligence of the majority. I say majority because I include pro Union people who see through the crap but accept it because it suits their agenda,

    I am convinced we have reached a point where winning Indy is not about converting people through education versus controlling them by propaganda, it’s about something much more basic. It’s about turnout and demographics.

    If young people (16-40), and less well people, and resident EU citizens were to turn out in the same 80+% rates as over 60s and the better off … Indy would be ours!

    The media matters, but getting our folks to actually vote matters more. I am utterly convinced.

    Also, just to ensure an unchallenable 60+% Yes win, I would promise iScotland state pensions would rise significantly over the first 5years. The UK is a third average earnings while the EU average is half earnings. Consider what the Tories’ suggestions of hitting older people did to their recent backing in the GE. No consider what the opposite might achieve in an IndyRef.

  54. osakisushi

    As a bloke with leukaemia (non fatal with treatment) I’ve become very close to the NHS since 2012. What the media fail to recognise is the very real anger in the NHS about the reportage style.

    Of course, if more people got ill, it’d generate more YES voters but perhaps this isn’t an ideal strategy to expose the lying bastards.

  55. Dr Jim

    Hundreds of thousands of people read Wings Over Scotland every day


  56. Valerie

    WOW WOW WOW. Must read, and note mention of Scotgov

    Remember the debate on here ‘re Highland Spring?

  57. crazycat

    @ Edward at 12.09

    Does it not follow that the UK excluding Scotland actually saw a decrease of minus 0.6% , meaning recession in the rest of the UK ?

    No, because the economy of the-UK-minus-Scotland is a lot bigger than the economy of Scotland, so 0.8% of the latter is a very much smaller percentage (I can’t be bothered to calculate it!) of the former.

  58. cirsium

    @Doug Bryce, 12.15pm

    The only place to report the information was, of course, the infamous RangersTaxCase blog.

    Not infamous, Doug. Did it not win the Orwell prize for investigative journalism? It was issue based so closed when the tax case concluded. I wish that the web journalist could have turned his/her attention to other issues.

  59. auld highlander

    Off Topic,

    Just been looking at the marine traffic web site and the new aircraft carrier (won’t mention it’s name) is in the Moray Firth midway between Lossie and Brora, doing around 8 knots when I last clicked. It’s the big pale blue one.

  60. Robert Peffers

    @Peter McCulloch says: 5 July, 2017 at 10:46 am:

    “How often do you read letters in the local papers from people who have had to go into Hospital and are surprised that things aren’t as bad as they had read, and praise their treatment and staff.

    Not often, Peter, for the very good reason that the publications, broadcasters and much on-line media are controlled by the same media & broadcasters as are doing the anti-SNHS propaganda.

    “Interestingly unionists never really been challenged by their compliant media to provide any coherent solutions to dealing with the stresses facing our NHS.”

    Once more because the same people are in charge of the media as are the propagandists.

    What is really deplorable are the numbers of those, who should know better, who jump in with both feet and decry the SNP/SG for not doing more about it. We have many such people right here on Wings. Mind you I do believe some of those detractors of the SNP here on Wings are flying false colours.

    Those who know the score are aware the SNP Councillors, MSPs and MEPs work tirelessly holding the unionists to account but, of course, none of that is getting aired or printed by the propagandists.

    However, if people go directly to Scottish local council websites or to the Westminster and Holyrood websites they can see the SNP elected members doing just that at every sitting and in every Committee room sitting :-

    Go watch the actual sittings, (not just PM’s and FM’s Questions), and an entirely different picture will be seen. The unionists are not only held to account but are constantly attacked. Mind you, you will also see and hear the Presiding Officer and Speaker being biased.

    Bear in mind too that ALL TV output these days is subject to a time delay so that the production team can do a quick edit out of such things as offensive language but they can also manipulate the volume of the various microphones or even inject such things as canned applause, booing and background noise to give false impressions.

    A good example of such tactics can be seen in the Commons when Scottish Questions is being transmitted. Alert viewers will note that the background noise is always much increased and the level of English Members derisory noises and comments is apparent. While a viewing of the normal chamber business will show that the background stuff is always much more suppressed.

    They obviously want to give the public a false view of what actually happens. The Westminster Establishment, and not just the Westminster political wing of it, never stop the 24/7/365 propaganda war against all outsiders – and those outsiders includes those of us who want Scottish independence.

  61. Ghillie

    Well said Robert Peffers = )

    Yet in spite of the Westminster Establishment’s greatest efforts, Scotland shines 🙂

  62. Valerie

    That’s Ross Thomson Tory, lying in HoC, saying Nuffield report highlights mess SNP have made of Health.

  63. Robert Peffers

    @Phil Robertson says: 5 July, 2017 at 10:56 am:

    ” … I think you’ll find, like the tango, it takes two to polarise. If the Scottish Government showed anything like competence in its administration of the NHS, things would be a lot better, irrespective of the media’s position.”

    Yes, Phil but it only takes one, (at a time), to talk utter pish as you always do.

    The Scottish NHS is head and shoulders above all other United KINGDOM NHS services and that is demonstratively obvious to all but the seriously brain dead unionist numpties like yourself.

    Every statistic that is published shows the SNHS is way ahead in everything.

    Here’s todays headlines: – NHS, (that’s England NHS):-
    NHS, “Rationing”,
    leaves patients in pain”. It refers to patients being rationed for hip & knee replacements, cataract surgery and pain killing drugs for arthritis.

    Prescription Fines ‘double in a year’.:-

    Fines issued to patients for claiming free prescriptions they are not entitles to have doubled. Factually it costs more to means test and police free prescriptions than to give all people free prescriptions as in Scotland.

    Three Hospitals fail fire safety checks, That’s in England of course.

    Almost every Hospital Board in England is very much in debt and still being cut drastically by Westminster.

    As usual your blinkers are stopping you seeing the truth.

  64. Mungo

    Robert peffers… how about some clever way of punishing the perpetrators? Pass new laws, invent new taxes that hit these people hard. I’d like to see the SNP take a more proactive and aggressive approach to this and many other things. Sadly, however, I think they’re paralysed with the fear of upsetting potential voters. Trying to be all things to all people, people who will never vote YES anyway.

  65. Ghillie

    Valerie @ 12.44 pm (and Smallaxe and Nana last thread)

    Thank you for that link to ‘Highland Spring says sorry!’


    That was us dimwits being told we misunderstood what their CEO said!

    The same chap who’s reported quotes I read and very clearly understood to be anti Independence and certainly anti Indyref2, and that persuing that ambition for our Nation was bad for businesses.

    Well Not Highland Highland Spring, that is adding insult to injury.

    Again, I am glad I am not in that man’s shoes. He might be having to switch to tap water himself!

  66. Andy Anderson

    Ialso used to read the Herald but gave up when it became blatantly anti Scottish. The MSN is the main reason it is difficult to change people’s opinions to Indy. They believe all the crap. I fight to stay calm at times.
    I have a an Android phone which I am changing so the Google can no longer give me anti Scottish news on their browser.

  67. Ghillie


    The SNP are the party of Governance in our Scottish Parliamment and are there to represent the interests of everyone in Scotland.

    Hopefuly, that excellent care for all the people of Scotland will help folk to see why Independence for Scotland is the way to a fairer, happier and more prosperous Scotland for everyone 🙂

  68. Mungo

    The fight for independence IS for the benefit of all of Scotland. Some people just can’t see it. I vote SNP to deliver independence. If I begin to doubt they’re ability or desire to achieve that then I’ll have to think long and hard about my future vote.

  69. Robert Peffers

    @Sinky says: 5 July, 2017 at 12:12 pm:

    “Again its high time the SNP had a pro active rebuttal unit which posts background context … “

    Sheesh! And, Sinky, where exactly do you propose the SNP publish or broadcast these gems of information?

    Tell me, do you routinely read the SNP’s web pages?
    Do you even routinely read the SG’s webpages?

    The fact is the information is there to read for anyone who wants to find out the truth instead of the propaganda.

    How many even bother to watch the Holyrood & Westminster TV on-line stuff as it occurs?

    Just what the hell would be the point of sending press releases to the MSM and Westminster controlled broadcasters? They will either not publish it or will distort it or downright lie about it. Then people like you can get on with blaming the SG and SNP for the faults of the propagandists.

    Drip! Drip! Drip! Drip! SNP BADDD! You lot never give up do you?

  70. HanadandShrimp

    The Herald is Fake News

    Pop will Eat Itself.

  71. Mungo

    The SNP mitigate many of the worst effects of UK govt policy but when the Scottish Govt is successful it’s either not reported, twisted to look bad or made to look like why the status Quo works. If all the SNP govt is there for us to mitigate worst UK Govt policies then that’s no use to me. At some point it’s time to start taking direct action. Whether that be legal action or civil action. It’s time to present evidence of the press lying and manipulation to the international courts. It’s time to say out loud live on the BBC and at every opportunity what’s happening. Pull our SNP MPs out of Westminster, what use are they there anyway. Refuse interviews with the BBC or as I said, call them out at every opportunity.

  72. galamcennalath

    I used to buy the Glasgow Herald (as it was known) on my way to work. I bought my last one on the 3rd of May 1979. So far, that’s been a 38year boycott!

    Their editorial [page4] said, “The bold step Britain has to take”, and that was to vote for Thatcher.

    Astonishing just how wrong the Herald was on it’s appraisal of what the Tories would bring.

    Available here for anyone interested in this piece of history.

  73. Mungo

    Robert peffers. Your solution seems to be “do nothing?” Just sit back and hope something happens. At some point we have to say enough. And if we can’t get a fair hearing then we must disrupt them at every turn.

  74. Ghillie

    Gallamcenalath @ 12.20 pm

    A very good observation that the media are turning off more than Yes voters with their misreporting and attempts at propaganda.

    And if we can’t beat them at that game then you are right, getting the voters out in the highest numbers possible is of paramount importance.

    For now, I really feel for all our NHS staff who should be enjoying a well deserved good press day.

    ALL our SNHS workers should be feeling proud of themselves and their extraordinary hard work which so many of us clearly appreciate!

    But because of a bitter and twisted message that the press choose to put out, they are being robbed of that acolade.

    Shame on the BUM.

  75. David

    I stopped buying papers years ago, i used to get the Daily Record until one day i said to myself, i’m not buying this rubbish anymore, all it does is trash the SNP and ignore what the labour party is doing to scotland, this was before the scottish parliament was created, so over 17 years ago since i bought that piece of toilet paper
    The papers in scotland are mostly run by english owners, you will never get an unbiased view of what’s happening as long as this exists, do what i do, don’t buy them, the people of Liverpool had the right idea, don’t buy the sun as its just a piece of crap dressed up as a newspaper, everything i need to know i get from the internet, to anyone who is interested, on youtube their is a guy called Scot Arthur, he is scottish, all he does is put on videos mostly about how bad the SNP are, come and join me there as there are very few of us SNP supporters that comment, its mostly unionist english people who comment, and the rubbish they come away with is truly ignorant and stupid, so he it is again Youtube Scott Arthur
    My name on there is Porta Rico, come and help me out folks, this clown arthur needs to be taken to task about his lies and propaganda

  76. Moonlight

    It interests me that the majority blame the Tory party for the manipulation of the MSN. In my view it is the Establishment based in London which in fact is the primary culprit.

    The SNP/SG is constantly attacked in Scotland, but move south of the border and it is the labour party which is the principal target, but the Tories and the DUP are getting some of the flak when not towing the party line.

    Whose party line? The establishment. Who sits at the point of the establishment pyramid? The Windsor family of course.

    Want a knighthood, OBE, MBE etc, who dishes them out? You all know the answer.

  77. Craig Fraser

    Just finished reading – How to dismantle the NHS in 10 easy steps- by Dr Youseff El Gingihy towards the very end he states that the devolved administrations in particular Scotland have done away with PFI. This is the root cause of the decline of the English NHS and has a knock on effect our our health service.

  78. manandboy

    At long last, a court in the UK (The Supreme Court) has stated the obvious and found in favour of HMRC in the Rangers Tax Case.

    Doubtless the Scottish Football Authorities will have another
    loss of appetite to apply tne decision to Rangers FC Ltd in a other demonstration of Unionist corruption.

  79. manandboy

    Ps. I don’t recommend typing on a tablet wnile sitting in the sun.

  80. shug

    what surprises me is they did not mention what lady Moan thinks about it

    How can I judge with her deep and insightful thought

  81. Ghillie

    Mungo, how on Earth is the excellent governance of Scotland for ALL people living here not good enough and of no use to you?

    This is not a country that believes in treating folk differently because they are not of a particular political persuasion. That would be a very ugly road to go down and completely alien to the Scotland I aspire to.

    If, in the first instance, the Scottish Government were NOT to mitigate the worst of Westminster’s excesses then I believe you and I and most folk would be burned on a daily basis.

    You do know that the SNP are juggling many many political balls at once.

    Governing the country and keeping the peolple and their livlihoods safe obviously has to be the priority. Or we would all suffer horribly.

    That ‘day job’ work does not exclude working towards Independence. In reality it informs the voter of how our country should be run and how much more an Independent Scotland in charge of its own resources and decisions will achieve.

    As Robert Peffers advised, reading the SG web site and watching FMQ would give some idea of what is actualy going on. And some insight into the steps being taken here and Internationaly to manouever closer to our goal. It is not all mad action but it is effective and necessary.

    The media are not the public’s friend.

    So being well informed ourselves and able to counter their guff whenever we are talking to our families, neighbours, colleagues, folk at the bus stop, is what will do at least something to mitigate the damage of the press.

    If you can think of a tact that the SNP should be taking to hasten the drive towards Independence then do write to them.

  82. John Mclean

    My wife attended accident & emergency at RAH Paisley recently

    was seen within 50 minutes and then informed of what the next

    steps where.

    The outcome was… within 90 minutes she was examined by a

    specialist and then she was taken to a ward to be ready for

    scans next morning.

    All this took less than 2 1/2 hours.

    Next day her scans were carried out and she was released at

    lunchtime after a full explanation of results and future


    If this is proof of a failing health service I suggest these

    fool’s go elsewhere for treatment …..

  83. Dr Jim

    @David 2.27pm

    Dr Scott Arthur of Edinburgh University is a regular go to Yoon for all occasions
    He turns up on the Telly for debates, he’s a regular contributor on Call Kaye in the mornings, I believe he even stood as a candidate for Labour and didn’t win, so he’s a man who’s as popular as Shite and talks a lot of it

    He’s pretty well know as a rabid Unionist Tory or Labour it’s all the same to him, with death to all people who would like to run their own country as his Mantra

    Basically a Nut Job who knows Nuthin!

  84. Thepnr

    @Phil Robertson

    You are as bad as the Herald are in the reporting of the facts. Like them you are a bald faced liar with an agenda which is clear. You state:

    “Even the old fig leaf that things are even worse in England appears to withering. In other parts of the Nuffield report that you gloss over, it reports that cuts of around 8% are necessary to balance the NHS books, something approaching twice what is required in Engerland.”

    Whereas the ACTUAL truth is that the Scottish NHS are looking to make savings of around 5% (due of course to direct cuts to the Scottish budget from Westminster) and in England they have a target of 4% savings which many are failing to meet.

    Your posts on Wings are a waste of pixels and bytes on the internet as invariably they consist mainly of lies designed to influence. You are failing, your not Anas Sarwar by any chance?

    Scotland’s health boards are being required to make very high levels of savings. In 2016/17, Audit Scotland found that these amounted to around 5 per cent, or £492 million. The underlying driver is rapid rises in costs and the need for care, coupled with historically low funding increases as across the UK.

    A review of territorial health board papers shows that boards anticipate needing to find an average of 4.3 per cent in savings for 2017/18, with some boards needing to make savings of up to 8 per cent…

    These rates of efficiency savings are somewhat higher than the 4 per cent that is implicit in NHS England’s target of saving £22 billion over five years, and was explicit for NHS trusts before that in the rate at which the tariff was raised before 2015.

    These targets have not been fully met, resulting in large unplanned overall deficits emerging in English trusts.

  85. crazycat

    @ Dr Jim

    Unfortunately, Scott Arthur did win – he’s now a councillor in Edinburgh (Colinton/Fairmilehead – not too surprisingly). So even more bumptious than he was already.

  86. Ghillie

    And what use are our SNP MPs in Westminster ?

    They are the loudest voice against the Tory/DUP Government.

    Who would hold that rotten gaggle to account if not our MPs?

    Bear in mind, EVERYTHING that happens in Westminster has a horrid knockon effect in Scotland.

    I for one want Scotland to be as well represented there as possible. At the moment I am not looking for a grand gesture of our folk walking out, but a strong team to stay and fight our corner.

    Though who knows what the future holds.

  87. Thepnr

    Here’s another point, the Scottish Government is increasing the amount it spends on social care by £107 million this year to keep people out of hospital in the first place. Announced in January this year:

    An extra £107 million that will ensure more people are able to be cared for safely in their own homes and avoid preventable admissions to hospital is set to transform patient care in Scotland.

    The money will be invested into health and social care partnerships which bring together NHS and local council care services for patients, in particular the elderly, and reduce the need for them to go into hospital for treatment.

    So looking at the total savings being estimated that are required of £492 million as stated in the report as being 5%. We can assume that money will automatically be saved because there will naturally be a reduction in the numbers needing hospital care if they’re being treated within the Social Care system instead.

    Might be £107 million worth of savings but potentially more if it proves to be cheaper keeping people out of hospital which I believe is very possible.

    Assuming it does then £385 million savings instead of £492 million will have to be found from elsewhere, this equates to savings of 3.9% of the overall budget. No difference whatsoever then between Scotland and England. You need to compare Apples with Apples.

    The SNHS is doing better than other parts of the UK and that’s what this report is all about. How the Health Services might learn from the SNHS. That’s because we do things differently like increasing the amount spent on Social Care and very apparently more successfully too.

  88. Mungo

    Write them down… ok number 1 call out the BBC live on air.

  89. Ken500

    The SNHS is superb as everyone knows who uses it. The ‘press’ is going down the pan. Their conception of life in Scotland is vastly different to the majority perception. The ‘press’ is totally out of touch. Eating itself. The vast majority no longer believe a word they say. Owned by non Dom tax evading owners. Totally in debt. Appalling lies that can be shown up in 5 to 10 minutes on the internet. They do not have a ‘good word’ to say about anyone, but their arrogant, conceited, self obsessed selves, and the useless politicians in their pocket. Regurgitating the lies. They are despicable.

    Minimum pricing decision in July to help health and the economy. After 4+ years.

    The ‘press’ are biased, ignorant and determined to cause a world recession.

  90. Proud Cybernat

    We only need to make the unwary ‘think’ about the media and what it is ‘reporting’. That’s the start. Once they begin to doubt the BBC et al, they begin to look elsewhere, principally the net – and then their eyes are really opened. (Hence why May is desperate to ‘silence’ the net – good luck doll).

    Pointers – that’s the key. We don;t need to get into heavy debate with waverers. Just a word or two to point them in another direction; just a wee word here or there to the effect that they are being taken for a mug by the MSM.

    The other day I was in the pub. A soft-Unionist asked me about a report he’d seen on Reporting Scotland the previous night. I simply said, “Sorry – didn’t see it. Don’t like my ears being polluted by BBC Pravda.”

    “BBC Pravda?” he quizzed.

    I simply passed him a ‘knowing’ smile and went to my own table.

    Point is – it left him thinking. I wasn’t influencing him in any hard or fast way. Just made my comment and moved on. Now, if hundreds of thousands of us right across Scotland ensured (whenever an appropriate opportunity arises)that we dropped in these little ‘bombs’ into the conversation it really will have a big effect over time. ‘BBC’ must become a dirty word. We must degrade, ridicule and stigmatise it in the minds of ordinary people.

    Just drop these little ‘bombs’ into conversations where the BBC is part of the conversation – BBC Pravda, Pravda Sound, Good Morning Pravda, Tokyo Kay with an ‘E’. You get the idea. Let’s ridicule and stigmatise the hell out of the State Owned Broadcaster.

    The BBC might well control the airwaves – but WE control the streets and the alleyways.

  91. Marcia


    As there is a SNP/Labour coalition of sorts in Edinburgh it must be torture for him. 🙂

  92. Fireproofjim

    You mentioned the necessity for a strong rebuttal department in the SNP to counter the media lies.
    I have written on the same subject to my MP – Joanna Cherry- saying that a permanent office should be set up for this very purpose.
    I suggest that Wings correspondents and readers should do the same. Email, addresses are available on line for al MSPs.

  93. Petra

    @ ScotsRenewables says at 8:48 am …. ”OK folks, here’s what to do: Print out as many copies of this wee article as necessary, nip round to your local newsagent/supermarket/petrol forecourt and casually slip one inside every copy of the Herald.”

    Great idea ScotsRenewables. Printing data off of here and posting it through people’s letterboxes would also make sense. In fact it’s something, simple,that everyone on here could think of doing instead of complaining about the SNP constantly.

    We can all bleat on as much as we like about media bias and so on but it’s down to us to do something constructive and practical about it. ALL OF US. Not just a handful of SNP (and other) politicians and Councillors.

    And on that very subject, I’ve just been skimming through the posts on the last article and to be honest I’m actually bl**dy horrified AND bl**dy raging with what I’ve just read. SNP Baad personified, FGS!

    Everyone is in agreement that the biased MSM is our greatest obstacle to getting our Independence. Everyone (not quite it would seem) is in agreement that the SNP is the only party that’s going to do that for us, although I’ve just read one of the most ridiculous statements ever on here. Totally deluded or what?

    ‘’I’ll save my vote for somebody else who knows what the feck they’re doing, actually has a plan, understands what Scottish sovereignty actually means, and at the very least can recognise when they’ve crossed the sovereign threshold for actually securing sovereign Independence.’’

    I just wonder what party, somebody else, is being referred to here? Labour, Libdems or Tories?

    Most people are aware of the fact that the SNP has been fighting, unsuccessfully, to get broadcasting devolved along with the 82.5% of powers that Westminster still has control over, hence it being crucial that we get involved. Stu being the best example of all.

    Everyone is in agreement that we have to convince over 50% of the Scots to vote for Independence and that sovereignty won’t kick in until we do so. And then we find that there are some on here who are running Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP down to the ground and in doing so influencing people who visit this site. Influencing people not to vote for them, the SNP, which in turn means not voting for Independence at all.

    What the hell’s going on? You know who you are and I’d just like to say that you are wasting my time. Wasting the efforts that I’m making beyond this site in trying to ‘convert’ people to actually voting for Independence. It just beggars believe when we’ve got someone on here posting one (of a number) of the most detrimental comments about Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP ever and that’s followed up by someone else reposting full comments, deliberately reinforcing the message, stating that ”they are sorely tempted to print it out, and send it to every single SNP MSP, including the FM.” EH! A wee tag team? If not, do you have ANY idea of the damage that you’re doing folks?

    If I were Nicola Sturgeon I’d be thinking of throwing in the towel. Then again maybe that what these posters want. She’s up against Labour, Libdems, Tories and even the Greens at Holyrood. Nicola No Mates other than her colleagues. She has ex-SNP politicians such as Sillars undermining her at every turn and Westminster using every tool / massive powers they have at their disposal to demonise her, discredit her efforts and basically ruin Scotland to prove their point. We have a media backing Westminster and in doing so ensuring that she can never get her points across and then you come on HERE! Here, Wings, being the ONLY real means that we have of getting the truth across and the site is being used by people CLEARLY backing the biased media.

    What some people don’t seem to ‘GET’ is that over 50% of the electorate don’t support Independence at this moment in time and 36% of individuals who support (ed) Independence don’t want to be members of the EU. Additionally although 62% of the Scots who voted want to remain in the EU MANY of them DON’T support Independence and never will. Sovereignty only kicks in when a majority indicate that they want Independence. That’s what Nicola Sturgeon ‘GETS’ and that’s why she’s walking on eggshells, a tightrope, trying to steer this country through a quagmire, no thanks to some on here.

    Nicola Sturgeon needs all the support that she can get right now and more so than ever. She recently reached out to all Yessers to help her, publicly asked for help, and what do we get on here? It just makes me sick to the stomach having read some of the responses on this site, of all sites, to her request. She‘s carrying one almighty load on her shoulders, no doubt weighed down by the sheer responsibility of her actions and the actions of others (beyond her control) in her party. I’m sure she must lie in her bed at night wondering what tomorrow‘s going to bring. More smears, lies and distortions of the truth? Another idiotic SNP politician / Councillor undermining / ruining her efforts? Another election being called whereby we may lose even more seats? Labour controlled Unions / individuals wielding power in Scotland, that she’s (not us) aware of, constantly attempting to pull the rug from under her feet? And so it goes on. Considerations that she has to make based on the MANY issues that we have absolutely no idea of, although some to have delusions of grandeur when it comes to thinking that they are ‘all knowing’. To be honest I worry about her. Worry about the stress that’s she’s under and the impact it could be having on her health. Worry that we’ll lose her as a leader and what then?

    Anyway the point is this. Forget about the EU (EEA / EFTA) at this moment in time other than to start posting data to encourage Scottish Brexiters to change their minds, as we (some of us) have been trying to do in relation to Independence. The Tory Brexit negotiations / deal will resolve that for us one way or another, as will the stance the EU takes in relation to us over time. For example if they don’t see support for Independence growing they’ll hang back. Our focus has to relate to getting the stats up / more support for Independence. If we don’t get the numbers up we’re out of it, the EU, altogether and to be honest you can forget about ever getting Independence either.

    And as for those posting on here who seem to be hell bent on destroying our chances of winning Indyref2 why not think of applying for a job with the BBC / MSM, broadcast / publish for them, that is if you aren’t doing so already. No one is saying that people shouldn’t express their views. No one is saying that the SNP are perfect but this is a site for people supporting Independence. If that’s not the name of YOUR game you shouldn’t be made welcome on here.


    PS. It’s Nicola’s birthday on the 17th of this month (17/07/1970). Why not send her a little card, and a few kind words, to give her the much needed lift that I’m sure she dearly needs right now.

  94. Ken500

    The mess Ross Thomson made in Aberdeen City. Along with his fellow unionists getting the City in £1.2Billion of debt. Making the biggest mess of the City. Absolutely appalling. Building an non mandated grotesque project. Wasting £200million. Cutting education. Social care and essential services. Most of them should be in prison. Allowed to lie under Westminster ‘privilege’. Crooks & liars.

    Are they allowed to lie in Holyrood. The unionists frequently do. Tom Mason and Ross Thomson were party to education cuts in Aberdeen/shire.

  95. heedtracker

    Fireproofjim says:
    5 July, 2017 at 3:59 pm
    You mentioned the necessity for a strong rebuttal department in the SNP to counter the media lies.

    All newspapers in Scotland, tabloid and broadsheet letters pages are an endless litany of enraged SNP bad too. They’re either out right lying or smears. Its up the ed’s what gets printed so there’s little point in getting involved with that con.

    Daily Record has a huge smear SNHS style today, hospitals are in a terrible state, says DR gimps and there’s even horse hair in the roofing. Edwardian’s did that, for roof insulation.

    Not worth a look but even so.

    DR also mentioned something about a quite new Glasgow football club that lost in Luxembourg yesterday. They’re a young club, they’ll bounce back:D

  96. Still Positive

    Petra @ 4.11

    Well said. You didnae miss and hit the wa’.

  97. Dorothy Devine

    Well said Petra!

    I am lazing in 28 degrees on Mallorca a d trying to keep up with what is going on – no Highland Spring for me.

    As for our NHS ,the media better lay off best in the UK.

  98. Jack Murphy

    The Herald. Political stance,lifted from Wikipedia:
    “Political alignment: The Herald does not endorse any political party,but opposes Scottish independence”.

    The Herald is owned by Newsquest,HQ in London,England.
    Just a wee cog in a very large wheel:

  99. Muscleguy

    I just looked at it was doing 0k on the way to Rosyth, apparently. Couldn’t see any tug like craft steaming hard for it. So who knows?

    Nice site BTW, didn’t know it existed. The mobile drilling rigs here in Dundee are listed and all. I shall have to bookmark it.

  100. galamcennalath

    Jack Murphy says:

    The Herald does not endorse any political party

    Hmm, weasel words.

    It’s less about positively endorsing and more about the opposite negative condition it applies to one singled out political party, the SNP.

    Antonyms for endorse (courtesy of the interweb) …

    attack censure criticise deny disagree disapprove discourage dissuade invalidate oppose refuse reject renounce veto halt protest repel unauthorize

  101. Cherry

    Well said Petra. This needed saying. Too many folks pontificating about how they (SNP) should be doing things. IMO they are the only party to stand up for Scots and Scotland. Nicola is doing an amazing job of keeping all those balls in the air. We should get behind her. As Petra says…Shame on you! It’s up to us to fight for our independence, get involved join your local Yes group. If you haven’t got one, start one. Stop blaming the SNP for not doing things you think are important, give them your help.

  102. Robert J. Sutherland

    Jack Murphy @ 16:50,

    Yes, but didn’t the paper publish a leader article just before indyref1 saying that their then opposition to indy was in effect provisional and they would re-evaluate in the event (eg.) of Brexit?

    Just another example of Unionist deviousness, it would seem. No intention whatever to change. A hardline BritNat wolf in oh-so-reasonable sheep’s clothing.

  103. Tinto Chiel

    Proud Cybernat, re BBC “bombs”: “Vichy Vision” can come in useful sometimes. Every little helps towards That Light-bulb Moment when the scales finally fall from the eyes.

    Powerful stuff, Petra. Top-notch post.

  104. SilverDarling

    Sounds like a bespoke article conjured up by some unioinst politicians trying to link the subject closest to people’s hearts, the NHS and the thing which unionists fear the most, Scotland becoming a normal independent country.
    The problem is its complete nonsense.

    As someone who works in the NHS their continual attacks on the NHS to get at the SNP is going down like a lead balloon to a hardworking workforce who care deeply about theif patients and are unhappy at the fear their scare stories cause patients.
    If they wish to critcise the SNP then I expect them to come up with a credible alternative under the current specnding restrictions.
    I dont believe any of the opposition parties in Scotland have the level of intelligence or competence to do so. So they continue to snipe and spread fear among older people , the biggest users of the NHS.
    They should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

  105. Stuart Anderson

    Just received an email from 38 Degrees on a petition doing the rounds….
    “The NHS in Scotland is in crisis. This morning’s papers say the same thing: our NHS doesn’t have enough funding. [1] Patients are suffering – too many operations are being cancelled, and ambulances are too slow at reaching people in an emergency.”

    Goes on to say if they get 10K names they will take it to the FM.

    They have links to every newspaper article on this subject…Wings has given me the real picture through the article and the comments.

    I have now unsubscribed from 38 Degrees.

    Who the hell are these people peddling MSM bias!?

  106. galamcennalath

    Stuart Anderson says:

    NHS in Scotland is in crisis ,,,, doesn’t have enough funding …. take it to the FM.

    Plonkers. Nicola isn’t allowed to pick from a magic money tree. She gets what the Tories want her to have. There is no viable mechanism for the Scottish Government to raise extra cash.

    And whose fault is that?

    If said newspapers had campaigned FOR independence, all levers of government would now be in Scottish hands.

    If gullible Scots hadn’t believed the Vow would bring most powers, we wouldn’t be living on hand down powers and limited money.

    If all Scottish politicians always put Scotland first, we could be setting all our own priorities.

  107. Phil Robertson

    “Whereas the ACTUAL truth is that the Scottish NHS are looking to make savings of around 5%”

    This would be true if the health boards had met their targets for 2016/17. However most did not and, when those losses are compounded with the extra savings requirement for 2017/18, the numbers get somewhat higher than 5%.

    And these plans usually include an anticipated pay rise for staff of 1%.

  108. cirsium

    @Petra, 4.11pm

    If not, do you have ANY idea of the damage that you’re doing folks?

    Well, damage is certainly part of the plan. Do you remember the DDoS attacks on Wings in the run-up to the Indy Ref? Edward Snowden’s revelations were still fresh and Glenn Greenwald had written a seminal article in The Intercept on the MI6/GCHQ operation, the Joint Threat Intelligence Group. See

    One of the tasks of the Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group is Denial of Service attacks. Another is “covertly manipulating online communities”. So are the negative comments on the SG/SNP and the carping criticism of Nicola Sturgeon genuine or have JTRIG moved on from DDoS as Indy Ref2 approaches?

    Remember Greg Hemphill tweeting that the Indy Ref was “Star Wars: the New Hope” and the “snap” GE was “The Empire Strikes Back”? When I come across the negativity, I can hear Darth Vader’s voice saying “It is useless to resist.”

  109. Gary45%

    Aye Shortbreads finest?! Rubberheid was giving a “quality!?” insight this morning, as it was on the Empire wireless it must be true???!!!
    I hope the SNP never say “that’s it we’ve tried our best and yet we still get denigrated, now its the Yoon parties turn”, if that day ever comes SCOTLAND is FKED.

  110. Dr Jim

    But But this means that EVERYTHING the SNP’s been saying about Scotland being miles better than Inglind must be TRUE

    The Samaritans hotline must be on fire with suicidal Yoons ready to jump off buldings

    I’m going out to look!

    I’ll leave my phone in the house

  111. Proud Cybernat

    “Proud Cybernat, re BBC “bombs”: “Vichy Vision”…”

    Good one. Then there’s Q***ling Time with Dimbleby.

    Drop these little nuggets into conversations with people. Let us ridicule and stigmatise the BBC – especially BBC Misreporting Scotland.

    When you are (rightly) being laughed at and ridiculed, few people will want to associate with you.

  112. Ken MacColl

    Used to be a subscriber to The Herald but now I don’t bother even looking at it in the library. Like almost the entire “Scottish” media it carries little but unionist propaganda.
    Good current example of this is BBC Scotland who seem to be driven by SNPBAD messaging. They have been trailing the likelihood of Scotland going into technical recession. This has been a lead story for the past few days and when it turned out not to have happened . the disappointment emanating from their HQ is palpable.

  113. ScottishPsyche

    The spin from the Yoon papers and BBC is utterly relentless and is becoming even more blatant.

    With 2 senior BBC figures in the running for Theresa May’s press secretary and the Orange Order on Kaye Adams show boasting that CoS ministers, ex Policemen, and Soldiers were marching with them on Saturday, it is clear that the establishment is bedding in.

    PMQs was an exercise in obfuscation and denial today with any excuse used to denigrate the SNP policies. There is no opportunity for rebuttal except on sites like these. I agree we need to do more ourselves so I will be signing up to both the SNP and Yes campaigns to do more. I cannot sit back any longer.

  114. Croompenstein

    BBC does exactly what it says on the tin… BRITISH broadcasting corporation, be like me and countless others don’t pay them a fuckin penny..

  115. North chiel

    STV news 0600pm leading with ” SNP baad” NHS Scotland delapidated buildings requiring
    £900 million to rectify. Perhaps FM could ask for a ” sub” from DUP?

  116. Thepnr

    @Phil Robertson

    You LIED by claiming something the Nuffield report didn’t say at all. Your a weasel now trying to squirm out of a tight corner that your own words backed you into.

    Since you know better or at least claim to know better I’d suggest you right your own report. Confident in the knowledge that your Britnat friends in the media will be all too willing to find column inches for your drivel.

  117. Thepnr

    Did it again, write not right lol.

  118. Phil Robertson

    Thepnr says:
    5 July, 2017 at 6:06 pm
    @Phil Robertson
    You LIED by claiming something the Nuffield report didn’t say at all.

    It seems to be beyond you to conflate two pieces of information i.e. the figures for 2016/17 and for 2017/18.

    You seem to need things in black and white so here’s a quote – NHS Dumfries and Galloway’s local delivery plan shows that is needs to make cash-releasing savings of £22 million on a £282 million resource budget including contributions to IJBs – equivalent to 8 per cent.

  119. Thepnr

    @Phil Robertson

    Your at it again, lying. That is one single health board and the report clearly states and as I posted at 3:15pm.

    “A review of territorial health board papers shows that boards anticipate needing to find an average of 4.3 per cent in savings for 2017/18, with some boards needing to make savings of up to 8 per cent…”

    I have nothing to hide unlike you. Stop squirming and open your eyes because you are blind to the truth.

  120. Tinto Chiel

    O/T: in visiting my Aged Neighbour, who has VichyVision on just now.

    Jackie “Rickle O’ Banes” Bird has just introduced a feature on The Falkirk/Grangemouth Kelpies with some grannie unfurling union jacks behind adoring kiddies.

    Grouse Beater has a great running commentary on his blog re English/British appropriation of Scottish achievements/individuals/items.

    Think I’ll start a Butcher’s Apron Assimilation Watch…..

  121. North chiel

    Jackie Bird’s ” slip” showing on “Misreporting” tonight.
    Obviously she has her “vow” hero Gordon Brown ” on the brain.

  122. Col

    Jackie Burd calling the late Gordon Wilson “Gordon Brown” on reporting Scotland. Wonder if she read that from the autocue. How disrespectful. I see they spent the day thinking of ways to poo poo the good news on Scotland’s economy today.
    Mind you, there was no recognition really that Westminster still has most of the levers over our economy and has actively gone out of its way to bring down revenues from the oil industry.
    Mundell all but claiming the Scottish government controls the economy here. Of course no questions on what he is doing to influence events here.

  123. geeo

    @petra @4.11pm

    “Nicola’s birthday is the 17/07…..”

    Fittingly, that is the date of the final season of Game of Thrones, which has the equally fitting tagline…”the great war is here”

    Indeed it is….!

  124. Lochside

    Great post Petra… I’m glad you’re back and angry. Don’t disagree with your desire for a united front.

    But…surely we need some leadership from either the SNp or YES to challenge the BBC and media? Ponsonby and Prof Robertson have done sterling works publicly to make the uninformed aware as has the REv via this blog…

    Yet we are faced with a renewed and relentless onslaught by the state propaganda units. I have suggested Mass non payment of the BbC tax…this has to be led by a non SNP figure…we need mass ostracism of all msm press excluding the National..ditto for leadership…we also need an apoeal to the EU over our demkcracy being undermined.

    Let’s get those I objectives on the move wouldn’t you agree?

  125. Croompenstein


    Think I’ll start a Butcher’s Apron Assimilation Watch…..

    Don’t spend too much time on it Tinto they are everywhere, and don’t go watching invasion of the bodysnatchers you’ll never sleep.

  126. ALANM

    Yes, the media is biased and will always rubbish the SNP and everything it stands for. But how come more than 60% of Scots couldn’t see through the propaganda last month?

    And how come it’s us and not the DUP who’re keeping the tories in power? Are we as a nation simply too thick to grasp our opportunities when they arise? When the prison doors were flung open in 2014 for the first time in 300 years and we were given the chance to leave we meekly chose to remain in our cells.

    I’ve voted SNP since 1974, more often than not when their chances of success were close to zero. Even in those days I always thought my vote counted for something – we were moving forward as a nation and making progress towards independence. Now I’m not so sure.

  127. Andy Anderson

    The Wee Ginger Dug’s blog has a good article on this piece as well.

    For years there has been talk of boycotting the MSM. I know many do hence the drop in sales of newspapers. I realise there are other factors affecting this as well.

    I think the Yes movement through the Scottish YES convention should call for a total MSM boycott for a specific week. If all 45% of us do this they will notice. The convention should track the MSM for a month and then publish the list to be boycotted for what week. Yes they may be taken to court, so what.

    The Scottish Government could not do this for political reasons but the SG could. Just a thought. Lets hit back.

  128. Still Positive

    ALANM 7.20

    Like you I have been voting SNP since 1974. My husband used to ask me why when we lived in a Labour stronghold. I told him that I wanted to let them know that they had my support.

    Thankfully GE 2015 returned an SNP MP and he was returned last month.

  129. Tinto Chiel

    “Don’t spend too much time on it Tinto they are everywhere, and don’t go watching invasion of the bodysnatchers you’ll never sleep.”

    You’re right, Croomps. Saw the Leonard Nimoy version a while ago and found it pretty chilling/depressing but not as much as my memories of our great national broadcaster. I feel so much better not paying their tax or watching their pathetic shtick.

    I know we could all stop paying the licence fee tomorrow and The Establishment would still bankroll the State Propagandist but that’s not the point: it would be a great moral victory and their lies would not be spread so widely. We need to undermine their “legitimacy”.

    Loved the “tints” btw.

    Call me Crystal Tipps.

  130. Jockanese Wind Talker

    You’re wasting your time @Thepnr says.

    @Phil Robertson is a Troll, think he used to be Phil from Edinburgh.

  131. Song42

    Well said Petra.

    I don’t think half of the people making or passing these negative comments on (and they DO know who they are) do ever read any SNP site or what the Scottish Government have achieved! Esp’ with what Nicola is up against.

  132. Mungo

    You can knock all the doors you like and send people to this site and that’s commendable. Trouble is it’s not working. The people we have to change to yes are either disinterested in politics or the message, or have been completely brain washed by a lifetime of propaganda. These people need to be addressed via the media they lazily consume. An effective way in doing this would be for the SNP to confront the BBC live every time they get a chance. Now I’d love to have an opportunity to get my veiws across to the people that matter, but unfortunately it’s not me that’s being interviewed on prime news time, it’s the SNP!

  133. Jockanese Wind Talker

    As for BBC/MSM they are no better than William Joyce.

    Who “did ("Tractor" - Ed)ously adhere to the King’s enemies in Germany, by broadcasting propaganda.”

    Our Tractors (ed) Glen Campbell, Davey Torrance, Jakey Bird, et al

    “Do ("Tractor" - Ed)ously adhere to Scotland’s enemies in ‘The Establishment’, by broadcasting propaganda”

    Petra, ScotsRenewables and Breeks great points and good ideas.

    Call them out, make folk think.

  134. Robbo

    Not paying the tv license???Is that not a capital offence or sumit? lol. Wouldn’t we get sent to Smithfield for hanging or sumit-public humiliation.

  135. Phil Robertson

    Thepnr says:
    5 July, 2017 at 6:37 pm
    @Phil Robertson
    Your at it again, lying. That is one single health board and the report clearly states and as I posted at 3:15pm.
    “A review of territorial health board papers shows that boards anticipate needing to find an average of 4.3 per cent in savings for 2017/18, with some boards needing to make savings of up to 8 per cent…”
    I have nothing to hide unlike you. Stop squirming and open your eyes because you are blind to the truth.

    You really do need the dots joined up for you.

    The D&G figures which are in the Nuffield report are to illustrate that the deficits amount to more than the 4.3% centrally imposed efficiency savings because of carry forward deficits.

    I also have to remind you that I used the phrase “balance the books” in the original post. And in the report it notes that some boards plans are for “unbalanced budgets”. The 4.3% is a floor rather than an average since most boards will have a 2016/17 deficit to carry forward.

  136. Mungo

    In short, the SNP need to stop fighting this battle on the enemy’s preferred ground, use their imagination and take some risks. At this rate they are in danger of getting to the next Holyrood elections and losing their YES majority. And then it’s GAMEOVER !

  137. Luigi

    Enough is enough.

    Does anyone else think that the SNP and SG have been too nice to the MSM for too long? Time to take the gloves off me thinks – call it for what it is: blatant propaganda.

    The SNP have always been a bit feart to take on the media head on, for fear of being made to look ridiculous and sour. Let’s face it, being nice to the media has not worked.

    However, in these days of “fake news” and tightly controlled media narrative (the Grenfell tragedy and cover up being the latest example), they will have a big audience if they call the MSM out. Now is the time to strike. Take them head on and destroy what’s left their credibility.

    And as for tall these Freedom of Information requests – totally abused by the yoon parties and their media stooges (at huge expense). Surely there should be a limit to how many FI requests one organisation can make. After the forst one, they should be made to pay the full cost. 🙂

  138. Thepnr

    @Phil Robertson

    You talk some shite so you do, next time you attempt to give me your opinion disguised as fact it will be ignored as I won’t waste anymore time on your wittering.

    Provide direct quotes and links to back them up and I might take them seriously depending on the source for those links.

    Meantime from my original post, this is what the report actually states and is not some crap that you have just made up.

    “Scotland’s health boards are being required to make very high levels of savings. In 2016/17, Audit Scotland found that these amounted to around 5 per cent, or £492 million. The underlying driver is rapid rises in costs and the need for care, coupled with historically low funding increases as across the UK.”

    By the way the D&G figures are NOT in the report. No figures for individual health boards are.

    Stop lying, your making an arse of yourself and digging a deeper hole.

  139. Phil

    Robert Peffers says:
    5 July, 2017 at 1:56 pm

    “… Just what the hell would be the point of sending press releases to the MSM and Westminster controlled broadcasters? They will either not publish it or will distort it or downright lie about it. Then people like you can get on with blaming the SG and SNP for the faults of the propagandists…”

    Yes, this must be where we all do something big or small to support the cause of independence. Use of the media is mostly closed off thus our personal action must be at a personal level whether that be speaking with neighbours or house-to-house.

    The earlier reference to IndyPosterBoy was helpful.

  140. Douglas

    Today, I was at the Royal Infirmary Edinburgh for some routine check-ups. Whilst waiting for a blood test, I overheard the conversations of the nearby patients (as you do!). One couple, seemingly a scots guy married to a Mancunian woman for 20+ years, but live in Scotland with their family and only return to England to visit relatives was declaring the benefits of the SNHS and it should be given full funding and seemed happy with their lot here in Scotland. Another couple originally from Scotland, apparently now back in Scotland after having lived in London for 28 years and again fully praising SNHS. However, they would not return to London as it has “changed” and their family seemed to be more fragmented, having to live and find jobs abroad – apparently due to there being too many immigrants in the UK and this being the cause of the lack of jobs and underfunding of the NHS. So there you go… a small clique of people who in a way have submitted to the UK propaganda – we can be good but have been relentlessly beaten down as baaad. Sadly, I imagine this is mirrored nationwide.

  141. PacMan

    I have a habit of reading the newspapers headlines at the local newsagent and when I read a few lines of the Herald’s article and I just knew it was a pile of sh1te.

    In this case, it is a blatant politically motivated article designed to undermine the Scottish Government but it is also undermining the NHS as well. The same occurred during the referendum when the same press was undermining every part of Scottish society to achieve their political aim.

    It really is a tragedy that there are individuals in our society who will do anything to win their argument regardless of the damage it does to others. It really is selfishness in it’s extreme form.

  142. Ealasaid

    Well said Petra!
    And it needed saying. But they are still here!
    Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.
    Whether they mean to or not it looks like an invasion of concern trolls wanting the SNP to counter everything continually thrown at us while the complainers themselves sit on their backsides issuing orders and complaints to everyone else.

    I cancelled my TV license over a year ago, and got the refund for the time left. There is nothing illegal about not having a license if you do not watch. I have not missed all the propaganda and brainwashing at all. It only means you cannot watch live TV or the BBC iPlayer. These days there are plenty other platforms for entertainment on the internet etc.

  143. HandandShrimp

    Annoying day for the Yoons, not only was the Nufield Trust rather more complimentary than they would normally be able to tolerate they also had the let down of a failed recession. Both stories are comment enabled on the Beeb and both have tumbleweed blowing through them.

    However, I see that the Yoon politicians are compelled to say “do the day job” even when it is not relevant. They have caught the Maybot weird and wobbly bug…down which road lies only madness.

  144. Glamaig

    @Petra, 4.11pm

    Thank you for saying that. It needed to be said and you said it very eloquently.

  145. Graeme

    HandandShrimp says:
    5 July, 2017 at 9:05 pm

    “Annoying day for the Yoons, not only was the Nufield Trust rather more complimentary than they would normally be able to tolerate they also had the let down of a failed recession. Both stories are comment enabled on the Beeb and both have tumbleweed blowing through them.”

    Dont forget the humiliation of the Queens X1 in Luxembourg 🙂


  146. Robert Graham

    According to our media and the BBC not one service here is fit for purpose , nothing works or functions correctly , we live in a drought ridden , plague infested , rat hole on the edge of a paradise on our southern border , Oh to be in England a land of opportunity and plenty where everything is just right .
    Even the dumbest and stupidest bloody Unionist must see our media are and have been talking the Piss , they must know something isn’t quite right but cant bring themselves to admit they might have go it wrong in 2014.I am probably amongst others getting a bit tired of brainless bloody proud Scots who swallow hook line and bloody sinker anything being in this Union has ever benefited this country we call Scotland , FOOLS every one .

  147. Dr Jim

    When I was young and at the cinema, we called it the pictures then, at the end of the film there was a mad dash for the door because people wanted to avoid having to stand for the playing of the universally despised National Anthem with the Imperial Flag waving on the screen, only very few remained standing in the building

    It seems since that time some Scots have changed their minds about the stuff we almost all used to despise as a Nation and that was the dominance of Inglind and I can’t help wondering why folk are happy about being outvoted eleven to one on every issue to do with our own country and allowing people from another country to decide what happens to us

    I mean you wouldn’t just let your neighbour take anything they wanted out of your house or use your car and keep it whenever it suited them, or let them keep your pay packet till they decided how much of it they’d like to spend on themselves before they gave you some back

    Yet they are delighted to let Inglind do just that and to maintain due deference to the system that was created for them to be thankful

    I have no Yoon friends don’t want any, never will

    Divisive aren’t I

  148. schrodingers cat

    worth posting in full

    derek bateman
    the day job

    Haven’t written for a while – I’ve been doing the day job. I’ve also been preparing to go on holiday and hear Gillian Anderson plans to post a pic of me in seamed stockings.

    See politics? Piece of piss. It really is.

    That first paragraph encapsulates the entire Davidson Tory agenda – perform sub-Trump media histrionics to get attention and bite off snappy one-liners instead of policy development. So long as the media love you, so will the punters. Content is for losers.

    And all across Scotland sensible Scots fell for it instead of asking hard questions about where this government is taking us. Funny how people who screamed for detail and certainty over independence, now meekly accept without question a catastrophic train wreck which will wipe years of growth off the UK economy.

    I see the Brexiteer response is to say that Germany will really suffer when we stop buying their cars, which is true, it will. And am I supposed to cheer that the rest of Europe will also pay a price for British small-mindedness?

    How long will the country suffer because of an ideological row in the Tory Party? Couldn’t they do that without ruining the country and our international relations? Can’t they get on with the day job? (It appears not as the economy tanks, the credit worthiness falters, promised policies are binned, the Cabinet disagrees and even long-held right-wing ‘principles’ like university tuition fees appear to be on the way out.)

    It’s worth keeping some perspective on the bitter complaints from the politicos about the Scottish government and its perceived failings. The Tory MSP Dean Lockhart tweeted a graph showing Scotland’s economy on a low trajectory compared to the UK. No spin or excuses, he said.

    Well, perhaps some context then…The UK economy he mentions is the worst performing in the OECD with growth levels below every European country bar none. On the same day the manufacturing industries were revealing how uncertainty is killing their business and how they’re pleading for guidance from the government. The financial bodies are now approaching Europe direct to see if they can strike a deal without the government being involved. The Lockhart approach is shamefully parochial without the wider perspective of a UK now in undeniable decline with galloping uncertainty of a kind we barely imagined over the indyref. Is it also fair to exclude the damning point that his party denies Scots the levers to run our own economy and then complains when we can’t…

    And, as we’ve seen, Davidson chuckles and scoffs her way through it having created a media star relationship with the journalists which means she is rarely associated with her own party’s policies. Poking the SNP in the eye appears to be good enough to make her a serious FM contender.

    But this is what we have to live with. So what is the SNP response? Well, this is the season for everyone coming up with pet theories. I’ve previously had a go myself and whether you agree or not, it’s pretty clear that the days of complacency are over.

    Here are a few thoughts.

    First, people have had enough of the SNP running everything. There were just too many of them. Whichever way you turned, there were Nats to the left and Nats to the right in a way that seemed to affront our sense of fairness. That was a problem for Labour for years too and I guess people didn’t want to repeat it. Ridiculous as the one-party state mantra was, it struck a chord. And voters learned that there was a way to stop it by lending a vote to the nearest challenger.

    They were encouraged by the Unionists (yes, Labour too, urging folk to vote against the SNP, meaning Liberal or Tory if appropriate. Don’t give me your denials now)

    And the referendum idea was merely the trigger to justify the vote. I distinguish between a desire to avoid going through a referendum process and the acknowledgment of a potential need for such a vote. The former is the scunner factor most want to avoid and the latter is the democratic method which people know could offer an alternative. They waved it away as if bothered by a persistent wasp.

    So there has been a form of rebalancing of opinion against the concept of one dominating party.

    But can we dispense with the canard that the day job is somehow being abandoned in pursuit of self-government? It has become childish and was never true. It is the case that the leadership can be distracted and there are the clearest signs of that at Westminster. What else was the snap election about but preparing to destroy all opposition to hard Brexit? What else is clearing out departments of state of talented personnel to turn them into Brexit operatives? There isn’t a voice in or out of Whitehall that would deny the UK government is overwhelmed by Brexit, not just pre-occupied.

    And in Scotland? What is the evidence the SNP has surrendered policy objectives to independence? Did they bleat about it remorselessly or did the opposition tell voters they were doing so and plant the idea? Severin Carrell’s excellent observational piece in the Guardian from the north east hammered home the point that folk were scunnered with hearing about a referendum. But, given that the SNP deliberately didn’t push the referendum line, he failed to explain why people thought that way. Who in the SNP never stopped talking about it? Where did they hear it? Were they sure or were they hypnotised into disbelieving their own ears and eyes? The real story is the power of the political message overcoming rational thought – exactly the phenomenon that won America for Trump.

    Oh, and the day job. You never hear it from the media so here is a sample – only a small sample – of Scottish government activity over seven days that mostly hasn’t been reported.

    *Finance Secretary Derek Mackay has called for an urgent meeting (on the DUP deal) and highlighted that the Scottish Government will invoke the formal dispute resolution mechanism, if this situation is not satisfactorily resolved by HM Treasury.

    *Creating a fully accountable railway policing service. Railway policing will come under the command of Police Scotland after legislation was passed by the Scottish Parliament. The expertise of British Transport Police officers and staff will be backed by the specialist resources of Police Scotland, including counter terrorism, air support and armed policing.

    *Payments worth £6.7 million to Scottish sheep producers will arrive in farmers’ bank accounts this week, Rural Economy Secretary Fergus Ewing has said.

    The support scheme is targeted at sheep production on the poorest quality land to help farmers maintain the social and environmental benefits that sheep flocks bring to those areas, with payments being made to around 1,050 eligible producers by 30 June 2017

    *Over two hundred projects working to promote equality and address discrimination will benefit from more than £20 million investment over the next year.

    More than £5 million will be provided to organisations supporting engagement with communities experiencing prejudice on the grounds of age, disability, gender, gender identity, race, religion or belief and sexual orientation – while £2.7 million will go to frontline projects promoting equality and tackling prejudice.

    *Transforming services to ensure people with dementia get the support they need, at all ages and stages of the illness, is at the centre of Scotland’s third dementia strategy.

    *the Scottish Government intends to introduce legislation for a soft opt out system of organ and tissue donation.

    Public Health Minister Aileen Campbell has confirmed plans to bring forward legislation during this Parliament after 82% of consultation responses supported the move

    *National workforce plan for future NHS staffing. An estimated 2,600 extra nursing and midwifery training places will be created over the next four years as part of wide-ranging measures to support and strengthen NHS Scotland’s workforce.

    *Rural Economy Secretary Fergus Ewing said: We are doing all we can to deliver as many payments as possible this month. We are making progress, but we still need to do better. We have made a clear commitment to do all we can to make the 2016 payments by the end of this week and our staff are working as hard as they can to process the remaining payments.

    *background briefing tomorrow (Thursday 29 June) held by Scottish Government.Statisticans and analysts to coincide with the publication of a report on the impact of UK welfare reform in Scotland. The briefing will examine the evidence, facts and figures behind how the UK Government’s welfare reform programme between 2010 and 2017 has impacted on people in Scotland.

    *Public Health Minister Aileen Campbell and Social Security Minister Jeane Freeman will tomorrow (29 June) visit Upward Mobility in Edinburgh to announce access for young disabled people to a £5 million fund to help them live more independent lives.

    The Independent Living Fund (ILF) will provide a short-term award to people age 16-to-21 to help the transition into adulthood.

    *The second meeting of a Ministerial Working Group, convened to examine building and fire safety regulatory frameworks, has taken place today.

    *Proposals to transform the approach to planning for homes and infrastructure projects have been put forward by the Scottish Government.

    *Improvements will be made to the way wild deer are managed in Scotland, Environment Secretary Roseanna Cunningham has confirmed.

    *The UK’s Chief Medical officers (Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland) have released new advice on physical activity for expectant mothers – believed to be the first of its kind in the world.

    *Social Security Minister Jeane Freeman said today that women, disabled people and young people would be those disproportionately affected by damaging UK Government welfare cuts.The Minister was commenting on a Scottish Government report detailing the impact of UK Government welfare cuts on people across Scotland published today.

    *Minister for Childcare and Early Years Mark McDonald will launch a new guide to enhance the design of childcare provision across Scotland during a visit to a local nursery.

    *The police and courts will have greater powers to protect the public from perpetrators of human trafficking and exploitation from today. Trafficking and Exploitation Prevention Orders (TEPOs) can now be used by the courts to impose restrictions on people who have been convicted of trafficking and exploitation offences.

    *Young disabled people will be able to access a £5 million fund to help them live more independent lives, Public Health Minister Aileen Campbell has announced.

    *Views are being sought on the best way to spare child witnesses from having to give evidence during criminal trials.

    *Cabinet Secretary for Rural Economy and Connectivity Fergus Ewing said:

    As the Auditor General has confirmed, the changes we have introduced are showing signs of progress, which will deliver further improvements over time. This includes significant changes to the development and implementation of the CAP IT, including strengthening governance arrangements with a new senior management team.

    *Detailed work on how a potential bottle ‘deposit return scheme’ might operate in Scotland has been commissioned by the Scottish Government.

    *Payments worth £2.4 million to Scottish dairy farmers will arrive in farmers’ bank accounts in the coming days, Rural Economy Secretary Fergus Ewing has confirmed.

    *Latest recruitment rates released by NHS Education for Scotland show that 97% of all medical training posts in Scotland in 2017 are currently filled.

    *An HPV (Human Papillomavirus) vaccination programme for men who have sex with men (MSM) will begin in Scotland today (1 July).

    *A consultation is underway on financial support for college and university students.

    *A new guide to enhance the design of childcare provision across Scotland is now available for local authorities, private and third sector providers.

    *Significantly higher numbers of north sea cod, haddock and whiting may be available to Scots fishermen next year, according to new scientific assessments published today.

    *Veterans Minister Keith Brown said: This weekend marks several poignant anniversaries of major conflicts where we remember those from Scotland and elsewhere who made the ultimate sacrifice. I am here in Contalmaison to remember the men of McCrae’s Battalion who fought during the Battle of the Somme, 101 years ago.

    *As of close of business last night (Friday 30th June) and subject to final confirmation we have made BPS, Greener and Young Farmer payments to 16521 farmers and crofters, valued at £343 million. This represents around 90.4% of expected total payments for those schemes.

    *The way facial imaging and other biometric data is used to investigate crime is being reviewed.

    The independent advisory group, chaired by John Scott QC, will consider human rights and ethical considerations of how biometric data is captured, used, stored and disposed of.

    *Hundreds of Atlantic salmon will be tagged and released back into the water as part of a new study aimed at increasing the understanding of the routes they take and the conservation measures needed to protect them.

    *External Affairs Secretary Fiona Hyslop will be in Dublin on Tuesday and Wednesday to meet with her ministerial counterparts, as well visit a range of joint cultural and conservation projects under way between both nations.

    *The latest RBS business monitor prepared by Fraser of Allander contains good news for the Scottish economy. Companies across the country have reported modest growth in the three months to February, with the financial and business services and tourism sectors enjoying above average growth

    *Economy Secretary Keith Brown will visit global manufacturing company Interplex in Arbroath on Thursday, 5 July to highlight actions to grow the economy.

    Astonishing, isn’t it? If you got bored and raced through it, I’m not surprised. Most of this is not the kind of stuff that anyone would call ‘news’ but this is a taster of what is going on over one week when the journalists and the unchallenged politics tell us the SNP must get back to the day job. And this is the published material. Behind the scenes work goes on day and night covering every aspect of devolved government. Can you imagine Ruth Davidson having the intellect, commitment or nous to perform this kind of detailed, policy-driven work instead of riding tanks and tweeting?

    By never informing people accurately of what is really being done on their behalf, the media commits the sin of misleading readers. I think their obsession with image and frivolity and soundbites merely infantilises the audience. That’s why people think education is failing – but that’s neither true nor fair to teachers. The same for health where staff are constantly undermined by glib, partial coverage. Further in both schools and hospitals, the public learn to be fearful and distrusting as they are assaulted by exaggerated talk of woe.

    You have to ask though, why aren’t the SNP making more of what they do? How robust is their reaction? I think their machinery has stalled and needs a clear overhaul from the top down. There is no good story any more. To the public there is only one politician, there is no cabinet, no other stars, no other agendas on health, saving our environment, energy or new social benefit powers. The government has no command over the agenda as governments should have and, for all its faults, that’s not down (only) to a biased media. That just gets the SNP off the hook.

    If the material is there, it will appear. If the message has to be forced, it can be. Heaven help me but I recall one of the biggest transformations in media history occurring after Alistair Campbell took control of government communications and knee jerk anti Labour stories were replaced by supportive writing. Here’s Wikipedia: He oversaw new co-ordination and rebuttal systems which gave birth to a communications machine which became both feared and respected, and the model for modern communications in politics and business. He earned a reputation for ruthless news management which made him many enemies in the media. But even the Conservatives conceded they were partly defeated by their inability to find someone to match him.

    The message should never overcome the mission as has happened with the Scottish Tories who in policy terms are a shell party. But the message is as important as the mission because it makes sure the voters get it. The SNP has a message, a cause, others can only dream of. Time we heard it again.

  149. stu mac

    @cirsium says:
    5 July, 2017 at 12:53 pm
    @Doug Bryce, 12.15pm

    The only place to report the information was, of course, the infamous RangersTaxCase blog.

    Not infamous, Doug

    It was infamous among Rangers supporters who were and still are in denial.

  150. North chiel

    Re ” Lochside @ 0711pm” ” we need a campaign of mass non payment of BBC licence fee”. Surely the man to lead that would be a certain Mr T Sheridan ?. Also , a UNITED FRONT for INDEPENDENCE should be established in the run up to Indyref2 led by ( I would suggest ) three leaders , centre Lesley Riddoch, left Tommy Sheridan and on the right a ” business orientated ” individual to appeal to the conservative( small c) section of our society. The goal should be an Independent Scotland based on a social democratic Nordic model.The broadcasting issue should be to the fore in the early stages of the campaign ( i.e. Full scale attack on impartiality of MSM/BBC.) Thereafter, a positive campaign outlining a society based on EQUALITY & FAIRNESS
    should be in the vanguard of this MOVEMENT .Time to get organised , gradual buildup over the coming months. Small groups initially leading to larger groupings and later massive UNITED FRONT representing ALL sections of Scottish society. Time to end this discredited rotten union. Time to get behind and in support of our wonderful First Minister and back her up to the hilt.She deserves nothing less for her daily sacrifices on our behalf.

  151. Juan P


    Seriously folks, Wings is a bubble. We are talking to ourselves. Guerilla action in the form of inserting Wings articles in newspapers is a way of communicating outside that bubble.

    Agreed. Like many here I’ve helped crowdfund alternative pro independence media but they all seem determined to circulate pro-independence views within a bubble of folk already on message.

    Why can’t we crowdfund a metro style newspaper circulated for free in Scotland’s railway stations? Would it not be more efdfective to actually present some of the well thought through views espoused by regular WoS contributors to the wider public?

    Even a series of posters highlighting the good work of NHS Scotland and saying ‘Thank you’ underneath might be effective in countering the relentless media negativity. No reference to snp or indy just a series of posters thanking our emergency services and others who work in the public sector. Give folk something to smile about in the mornings and remind them that Scotland isn’t all that bad a place to live in.

  152. Sarah

    @ Petra 4.11

    Very well said.

  153. Phil Robertson

    “By the way the D&G figures are NOT in the report. No figures for individual health boards are.”

    Like much of your input to this dialogue you are wrong, factually inaccurate, incorrect and mistaken. Check your facts. Try page 59, about half way down.

    “Stop lying, your making an arse of yourself and digging a deeper hole.”

    A piece of unsolicited advice. Instead of making personal attacks from behind your pseudonym, why not try to think about the issues? Or is that beyond you?

  154. Breeks

    I’m not going to get in a bar fight with you Petra, but I don’t take back a word I said. You can smear me as antiSNP and undermining Nicola if it makes you happier, but I held my tongue back in 2013-14 about the SNP’s DISMAL performance combatting the hostile media, forever hoping the SNP were going to take off the gloves and deal with the problem. They never did. The BBC whistled the tune and the SNP danced to it.

    Everybody was waiting for the big SNP howitzers to start lobbing in the primacy of sovereignty as an issue, the betrayals like McCrone, but it never happened and the BritNat media stitched the lot of us up like kippers. We lost sovereign Independence in a squabble on a loop about whether we’d keep pound coins or not. Well played SNP!!!

    Guess what! I can’t get to sleep at night for the chronic case of deja vu I’m suffering from.

    Just for the record, I said what I said as someone outside the SNP looking in, and obviously you see things through a different perspective from inside the SNP looking out. Fair comment? I’m happy to leave it at that.

    But I’ll end with some friendly advice. If you think everything is ticketyboo and there is currently a head of steam building and growing sense of anticipation of an imminent referendum, then all I can politely say is I’m not seeing it in my neck of the woods, and we are running out of time. If you don’t want to listen to me, then for Gods sake listen to somebody else who’s not in the SNP either. The only thing that’s making a bed for itself and looks like it’s planning to stay is Brexit, and half of that perception is coming straight from the mouths of the SNP, not just the Tories. Half the folks around hear believe the shite that Nicola has parked the referendum until after Brexit. I’d even go so far as to say they’re convinced about it.

    And before you smear me again saying all I do is criticise, then why don’t YOU write the letter Michel Barnier telling him how BBC coverage is prejudicial to constructive dialogue both of Brexit and Independence issues here in Scotland, get the letter signed by half a million people or more if you can manage it, and ask M. Barnier to insert a clause in his Brexit negotiations whereby Scotland is provided with access to its own broadcasting network at least 3 or 4 months before the ScotRef referendum.

    You might care to mention Scotland is currently being deluged with the same right wind anti European BBC rhetoric which actually caused Brexit in the first place, and if you’re really clever, maybe you can use the hunt for signatures all over Scotland and throughout the whole of Europe as way of getting the YES band back together, and back knocking of folks doors with a spring in their step and cheery smile on their coupon.

    Do something!!!

    I dunno. All some people want to do is criticise…

  155. meg merrilees

    Anyone else think it’s a coincidence that Nicola’s birthday is the 17th July i.e. 17/07

    Treaty of Union: – 1707….. oo- ooh!

  156. schrodingers cat

    the snp is doing all it can do, ie getting on with the day job.

    it cant boycott the msm or the bbc, that would only justify their already biased coverage.

    the bbc and the msm are biased. we all know this and we dont have time to launch any competition before indyref2.

    do not look to the snp to hand this to you on a plate. do not look for a leader of the YES campaign to right the wrongs and deliver independence.

    indyref2 is coming, look to yourselves. to win our independence, the only choice we have is to go back to our roots. if no one is doing anything in your locality, do it yourself, organise social meetings in pubs and coffee shops, it takes only 2 to start a revolution, and to win a constituency election in NE fife.

    one point, while the msm is a biased lost cause for us, they are extremely worried about WOS. our local yes campaign will focus on stu’s next wee book (i hope it is red)

    every social media photo will see us holding up the WRB, every march we will hold it up. we will not blindly post it through any letter box, but personally hand it over on the door step.

    we will make sure the people of scotland know what the WRB is, we will not flood the market, we will make it a sought after item, Pique the public curiosity and our movement will grow from the ground up

    agus, bidh an sluagh-ghairm againn, “an fhìrinn” !!!!!

  157. Croompenstein

    @Phil Robertson

    Phil a bit OT but can you answer me a question…

    Whenever the Prime Minister or any minister of state of the United Kingdom refer to ‘the north of the country’…..

    Where is it they are referring to ??

  158. stu mac

    @Dr Jim says:
    5 July, 2017 at 9:57 pm
    When I was young and at the cinema, the end of the film there was a mad dash for the door because people wanted to avoid having to stand for the playing of the universally despised National Anthem with the Imperial Flag waving on the screen

    This was universal in the UK back then. Did you ever see the old 50s British comedy, The Smallest Show on Earth? What you describe is shown in it – one of its classic comedy moments as the old duffer character who stands to attention is flattened in the rush to get out.

  159. North chiel

    Yes! Well done Keith Brown on ” Scotland tonight” really got onto the offensive against soor faced Dean Lockhart over the economy . Called out the Tories for continually ” talking down” the Scottish economy” and highlighted all the infrastructure spending by our Scottish gov. Told Lockhart that his Tory bosses in London should ” get on with day job”
    More of this please Scot Gov !!

  160. Arthur thomson

    ‘Alone in Berlin’ is a film that might give inspiration to those who would like to take direct action.

    A good fiim.

  161. McDuff

    I for one will criticise the SNP when I think it is justified. As I have said before I am a member of the SNP and supported them for nearly 40 years and it is my right to voice my opinion whether it be positive or negative. What the SNP does not need is slavish adoration from a membership who believe the leadership can do no wrong.
    I don`t believe the SNP have a credible strategy and their media performance lacks passion, facts and assertion.

  162. Thepnr

    @Phil Robertson

    Your at the wind up now eh Phil? LOL There is no page 59 you lying fucker. Piss off back to the shithole you crawled from.

    I used to think you were just a typical Labour supporting Unionist troll but you have went beyond that tonight. Who pays your wages? I doubt that you troll for free.

    No page 59 check out the lying fuckers statement for yourselves.

  163. schrodingers cat

    I said what I said as someone outside the SNP looking in, and obviously you see things through a different perspective from inside the SNP looking out.
    I’m the snp branch organiser for my area, what is it you think I should be doing exactly?

    But I’ll end with some friendly advice. If you think everything is ticketyboo and there is currently a head of steam building and growing sense of anticipation of an imminent referendum,
    as an organiser for yes nef, we are currently discussing how we go about building up a head of steam. your input is appreciated.
    then all I can politely say is I’m not seeing it in my neck of the woods, and we are running out of time.

    feel free to get off yer arse and do something about it then.

    If you don’t want to listen to me, then for Gods sake listen to somebody else who’s not in the SNP either. The only thing that’s making a bed for itself and looks like it’s planning to stay is Brexit, and half of that perception is coming straight from the mouths of the SNP, not just the Tories. Half the folks around hear believe the shite that Nicola has parked the referendum until after Brexit. I’d even go so far as to say they’re convinced about it.

    good, then tell them that indyref2 is not only off the table but is locked in the press in the lobby!
    why?, because i canvassed 100’s of folk in my area over the last 3 months, and on the doorstep, folk (members included) had been barraged about the benefits or detriment of brexit for 3 years. what they wanted to know was what the result of brexit will actually be. not someones predictions or vacuous tv debate about what brexit would be, but the actual result so that they would finally actually KNOW what brexit is. what they didnt want to hear about was indyref2. that is why we avoided talking about it and the yoons didnt.

    And before you smear me again saying all I do is criticise, then why don’t YOU write the letter Michel Barnier telling him how BBC coverage is prejudicial to constructive dialogue both of Brexit and Independence issues here in Scotland, get the letter signed by half a million people or more if you can manage it, and ask M. Barnier to insert a clause in his Brexit negotiations whereby Scotland is provided with access to its own broadcasting network at least 3 or 4 months before the ScotRef referendum.

    I am prepared to accept the world is round but I am happy the bit i live on is flat. we could also all hold hands and try contacting the living then ask Barnier to instruct the legion etrangere to invade westminster at the same time

  164. Dave McEwan Hill

    Robert Graham at 9.54

    I call it the “half-wit factor” in Scottish politics. I would love to design and publish leaflets on the theme. They would certainly get read!

  165. Scottish Steve

    @Dr Jim 9:57pm

    I’ve often said that unionism is infantile politics. Scottish unionists are forever suckling their thumbs, clinging to Mummy Westminster’s leg, too scared to leave home and take responsibility for themselves.

    They are essentially political children. They want all the big boys and girls in London to make all the decisions for them because they’re oh so smart and what would us silly Jocks do without their superior wisdom? The mere thought of Scots ruling themselves utterly terrifies them.

    North Brits to the core. But hey, I guess I’m also being divisive in saying that. You’re not allowed to have a different opinion from the unionists up here. That’s nasty and divisive!

    It’s either total love and subservience to Westminster or you’re a damn ("Tractor" - Ed) who hates Scotland. That’s how black and white these people think.

    Hell mend them I say. Whatever makes them sleep at night in their wee union jock covers.

  166. Thepnr


    Just been given a telling off from the wife for letting rip with the sweary words and losing it in my response to Phil.

    My response “the lying fucker deserved it” and I’m sticking with that.

  167. twathater

    Posted this on Caltonjock yesterday this would also permit the SG to expose these shysters and for the Scottish people to realise what these ars*holes are doing to undermine Scotland

    As WGD Paul says and breeks over on Wings infers BELIEVE , ACT , BECOME , to disprove the constant lies and misinformation coming from the MSM and in particular the corrupt brutish broadcasting corporation the SG should take over the ALBA broadcasting facility and transmit the TRUTH of what is being done to Scotland and the Scottish people .
    Highlight the theft of the oil billions stolen and the Mc Crone report suppressed by wastemonster by successive governments , highlight the lies and ongoing blackmail regarding the naval ships promised to Scotland , highlight repeat and expose the vow and the duplicitous co-operation of ALL the unionist parties to vote down every amendment the SG put forward. The SG are investing millions in ALBA so it is all our money , therefore I am a shareholder , and as a shareholder I DEMAND that the SG take over the running of ALBA and broadcast and expose the deliberate lies perpetrated by the corrupt media

  168. Breeks

    schrodingers cat says:

    “I am prepared to accept the world is round but I am happy the bit i live on is flat. we could also all hold hands and try contacting the living then ask Barnier to instruct the legion etrangere to invade westminster at the same time…”

    Or we could just sit back while the SNP fucks up another referendum with its arrogant self righteous hubris.

  169. Thepnr

    What is the point of lying and lying repetitively? In other words a compulsive liar.

    The answer is simple, it is all about deception. The liar tries to convince you that what you know to be is is actually wrong. They want to spread doubt and confusion. That’s why we have trolls here doing exactly that.

    It’s not easy for them on Wings though, lies don’t usually last long as the liar will never provide any evidence to back up their assertions. That leaves Wingers to provide the actual evidence that proves their assertions to be a lie.

    Liars are not nice generally, some even get paid to lie, it’s their job. How shameful would that be lying for a living?

    These characters know no shame, in fact they truly love their “job” in reality they are ignoramuses who know little about what is going on dya to day in the real world.

    Their bubble is so small you almost cannot see it with the naked eye.

  170. schrodingers cat

    breeks says:

    Or we could just sit back while the SNP fucks up another referendum with its arrogant self righteous hubris.


    no, i’ll leave the sitting back to you, lets face it, it’s the only thing your good at, apart from vacuous rhetoric that is.

    me, i will carry on doing what i have been doing for the last 35 years, on the doorsteps campaigning for scottish independence and putting forward real suggestions, real actions for real people while you pontificate on how bad a job i’m doing in the hope that you gather more followers on social media.

    better still breeks, fuck off and leave this to the grown ups eh?
    we have taken scottish independence from the fringes of public consciousness to the center of the political debate without you. I am certain our cause will be better served without your constant whine.

  171. Black Donald

    I have a great deal of experience of the Scottish NHS at first hand as a patient. Several months at a time.

    They are excellent. I shouldn’t be alive. I had a wonderful consultant in the Philippa Whitford mould. Hard working, dedicated, courageous women making life and death decisions. Very tough calls that saved my life.

    I get so angry when I see and read the SNHS bad stuff. Dishonest and shameful.

    The campaign of disparagement against the Scottish NHS isn’t just shameful. It is dangerous. A vet once explained to me that animals do better with cancer than humans because they don’t know they have cancer. They are under much less stress. People are entering hospital under unnecessary stress because they have been given expectations of poor treatment. This must damage outcomes.

    The BBC and msm are criminally irresponsible in my opinion. They are damaging the health of hospital patients. The BBC actually described a large Scottish hospital as a Death Star. Unforgivable.

  172. colin alexander

    All this talk of boycotting the MSM.

    If you want the SNP to take the lead in this matter then tell that to Nicola Sturgeon and Joan McAlpine who have their Evening Times and Daily Record columns respectively.

  173. North chiel

    Interesting article over on ‘Newsnet’ by Alf Baird . ” Does Brexit vote underline Scotland is not a country”?

  174. Still Positive

    Black Donald @ 12.12

    In September 2011 I was diagnosed with breast cancer at a one-stop shop at the Western Infirmary, Glasgow. My op was 10 days later and chemo started exactly 1 month from the date of my op. First class care throughout.

    While I was going through chemo I was on the Breast Cancer Care website on a forum where women could share their experiences.

    On one particular thread 4 of us were from Scotland, 2 in Edinburgh, 1 in Inverness/Fort William and me in Glasgow. 1 was from N. Wales and the rest from all over England but mainly the south.

    As we reported our chemo experiences, many (in England especially) complained they were not given as much as a cup of tea while they were having chemo and had to take a friend with them to ensure they were fed and watered.

    One of the Edinburgh ladies commented that she got tea/coffee/water and biscuits mid-morning and sandwiches/yoghurt/fruit plus fresh orange/water/tea/coffee at lunch. I got the same and so did the lady in Inverness/Fort William.

    One of the ladies from England commented that we,in Scotland, had 5* treatment, which we most certainly did.

    Very proud of the Scottish NHS under the SNP.

  175. Big Phil

    The Alba thingy sounds good tae me,that would be a great start,

    Breeks ,always liked yer comments mate, but me thinks yer battle weary.take a wee breather and relax, yer frustration is felt by us all, but as a few have said slowly slowly catch the monkey, dont lose heart.

  176. Thepnr

    Boycott the BBC by not paying the licence fee, it is easy and painless. You don’t have too but it’s best to let them know directly to avoid any possible hassle in the future.

    You can do that here:

    You don’t need to tell them why you are cancelling but can do so if you choose to. T told them that “I no longer wanted propaganda beamed into my living room”.

    After you cancel they will email you or send a letter telling you that it will be 2 years before they contact you again to se if you’ve changed your mind. In my case they never contacted me at all until recently after 3 years.

    A simple reply that my circumstances haven’t changed resulted in an email telling me I won’t hear from them again until at least July 2019. You see they are not permitted by law to harass or annoy you as long as you do it right. So make sure you do and avoid any issues if you decide to cancel.

    Now if you do choose to cancel you can still watch TV of course only not live and that’s any live broadcast, you’ll have to watch catch up instead though that now excludes BBC i-player.

    You won’t be missing much that’s a fact, basically with the money saved from the fee we subscribed to both Netflix and Amazon Prime. there are more TV series and films there to watch on my demand and at a touch of a button than I ever had with the BBC.

    An added bonus if I ever buy anything from Amazon, it’s usually delivered free because of the Prime membership.

    Anyway it’s suited our family and I’m happy to have left the state controlled media and at the same time gained more choice.

    It’s totally painless and for a political anorak like me. Liberating.

  177. Petra

    Hi folks I’m wheeching through the posts and on my IPad so responses are limited. Thanks to everyone who responded to my last post.

    To Geeo and Meg apologies for posting the wrong birthdate for Nicola. Her birthday is on the 19th July. Angela Merkel is the 17th. So not the Game of Thrones at all however Churchill launched his V for Victory Day on the 19/07/1941 and we all know how that turned out!

    @Cirsium at 5:54 …. “JTRIG” …. Spot on Cirsium. The Establishment will stop at nothing to prevent the breakup of the UK including using their JTRIG operatives on sites like this … the most influential pro-Independence site of all. Their mission … “Dirty tricks to destroy, deny, degrade and disrupt enemies by discrediting them, planting misinformation and shutting down their communications.”

    @Lochside at 7:11pm …. “I’m glad you’re back and angry.” Ha, ha, ha! Yeah I’m an absolute fiend when it comes to anyone / anything trying to stymie us getting our Independence Lochside. I agree with you that Stu, Ponsonby, Robertson, WGD et al are doing amazing work but the folks we need to convince are those lolling back on their couches sucking up MSM propaganda. We really need to be broadcasting right into their living rooms but until such time that happens we have to carry on with some of the ideas that have been presented on here more recently. I also wonder how many of the couch potatoes would actually bother to watch the programmes if they were made available to them? On the otherhand maybe word would get around. As to mass non-payment – agreed and someone like Tommy Sheridan would be ideal fronting that if he was prepared to go to prison again??!! Appeal to the EU – agreed and I think that Breeks has that one covered. What we really need right now, imo, is a site (SNP or ScotRenewables?) that has every aspect of Independence covered such as GERS, Oil / McCrone, Trident etc. A page or two of concise facts relating to each area that everyone could access. We should all have the phone numbers of newspapers, BBC, STV complaints departments at the ready and phone them every day. Hundreds of us everyday.

    @ North Chiel at 10:15pm …. Brilliant and I see that ‘Women for Indy are ready to hit the ground running.’ Fifty five groups right across Scotland. In yesterday’s National.

    @ Juan at 10:16pm …. “Crowdfunding a Metro style newspaper.” Another great idea. I wonder how much that would cost? Maybe someone on here could give us an idea?

    @twathater … “Alba” … Wouldn’t that be great twathater. Let’s email our MPs and see how feasible that would be.

    Some great posts on here tonight with many people enthused to the point of coming up with one idea after another. Maybe we should think of going onto the O/T site, pulling the list together and discussing the way forward re. each one of them? Sorry if I’ve missed anyone’s post / ideas but as I mentioned already I’m on my IPad scrolling up and down which seems to take forever …. for nearly an hour now! We’re going to win this folks. Have no fear. They can throw everything they like at us but we’ll outwit them in the end and get the 6% plus support that we require.

  178. Big Phil

    AS Thepnr says above,
    Save all that money and just stream all you need. just pay for an internet provider . If yer paying £147 per year (bbc tax) and you pay £80+ for say Sky ; thats a lot of dosh to be brainwashed.
    pick any provider, buy an android box and watch streamed content(not live).
    That way you watch yer own brainwashing media but ye only pay a fraction of the cost. SIMPLES.

  179. Thepnr


    You do have a way with words. I admire that.

  180. Rock


    “I for one will criticise the SNP when I think it is justified. As I have said before I am a member of the SNP and supported them for nearly 40 years and it is my right to voice my opinion whether it be positive or negative. What the SNP does not need is slavish adoration from a membership who believe the leadership can do no wrong.
    I don`t believe the SNP have a credible strategy and their media performance lacks passion, facts and assertion.”

    The SNP is a victim of its own success in the last 10 years.

    It has concentrated on governing well and has done an incredible job.

    It has also concentrated on gaining politically while playing under Westminster rules.

    But it has forgotten that its top priority should be independence.

    It missed a golden opportunity after the Brexit result.

    Admit it or not, the independence cause suffered a major setback in the snap election.

    In the article “The Warships Of Damocles”, the Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “In other words, should a second referendum materialise”

    No doubt he will correct me, but that sentence gave me the ipmression that even he is doubting whether a second referendum will happen in the original timescale that had been proposed by Nicola, that is before Brexit is completed and the UK including Scotland is out of the EU.

    After the summer break, the SNP should become the Scottish NATIONALIST party and concentrate on independence.

    Let the unionists (mis)govern, with the support of the Greens.

    The more the SNP protects selfish voters from Westminster policies, the less likely there will be a Yes majority.

    No-one ever got independence from the British establishment without suffering.

  181. Cactus

    OK, many folk-people asking for it, SO let’s go there, come hither…

    What U doing this weekend?

    If ye want to get busy celebrating and promoting Scotland..
    Come to the finest City of Glasgow this weekend (7-9th July).

    Glasgow… Scotland’s most populated city.

    Glasgow is THE party city this weekend!!!.
    (on the Glasgow Green day ~ it’s yours).

    We’re hosting an outdoors party gig fellow neighbours.

    Take a walk on foot, jump a bus or train or taxi it in.

    Come and join in with us all in the city.

    Calling Glasgow..


    LSX. 🙂

  182. Breeks

    Big Phil says:
    6 July, 2017 at 12:53 am
    The Alba thingy sounds good tae me,that would be a great start,

    Breeks ,always liked yer comments mate, but me thinks yer battle weary.take a wee breather and relax, yer frustration is felt by us all, but as a few have said slowly slowly catch the monkey, dont lose heart…

    You’re right Big Phil. I’m losing my instincts. Apparently everything is hunky dory and going to plan, and the still born poor excuse of a referendum campaign that I’m seeing; all but invisible, but apparently it’s recruiting folks in their thousands is a rip roaring success. No need for a YES campaign to steal the limelight, SNP has got it all covered. CyberNats need stagnat water to breed and multiply apparently. It’s a life cycle thing.

    And I’m sure when the BBC notices that every one of the 2.4million households in Scotland isn’t paying their £147 into the BBC coffers of their 3.7 billion annual budget, and some day no doubt it maybe will notice, it won’t be story about Scotland’s objection and protest to propaganda, it’ll be another case of the “something for nothing jocks” at it again. Still, at least it’s doing something eh?

    And Petra you don’t understand what sovereignty means. It doesn’t “kick in” once there’s a majority, it should properly “kick in” whenever Scotland votes for one thing and Westminster out votes it by force of numbers. That’s the difference between sovereignty and subjugation. 59 SNP MP’s can march down to Westminster and pay their respects to their Westminster subjugation because they don’t understand the mechanism of Scottish sovereignty, and the whole of Scotland sees the SNP sent hame tae think again.

    56 out of 59 MPs sent down as the voice of a sovereign people and they come home again with nothing. Sovereignty isn’t just having the power to make a decision, it’s the inability for someone else to force their will upon you as your superior. Good luck to anyone trying to explain that to the grown ups at the SNP who’ll lie down and get their tummies tickled by the BBC but spit acid in face of any actual nationalist who impinges upon their hegemony and dares to question their capacity to deliver what they promise.

    “Meh, whae else ye gonna vote fur? Eh? Eh? Eh? We’re the boys and don’t you forget it!” Aye, away and stick that message in Journey to Yes film. Dickheads.

  183. Morgatron

    That was uncalled for. Its Mr Dickhead.

  184. Macart

    Oh good grief. (goes back on holiday)

  185. bjsalba

    @Stuart Anderson

    38 degrees started off as a decent enough group but after the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Act 2014 most of the original team left and it changed drastically.

    As far as I am concerned it is now a shill for the Labour Party in Scotland.

  186. starlaw

    38 degrees changed a running petition and awarded it to Gordon Brown. 38 Degrees are a corrupt organisation in my opinion.

  187. Ghillie

    No Mungo, not write it down…

    Write TO the SNP.

    ‘If you can think of a tact that the SNP should be taking to hasten the drive towards Independence then do write to them.’

  188. Ghillie

    Petra @ 4.11 pm

    Excellent !! Well said ! With you on Nicola’s side she’ll keep doing just fine = )

  189. Bob p

    I think the snp should be stating things in layman’s terms, tell the people,no we can’t do such and such,our allowance/handout from London doesn’t cover that project. Keep hammering this home.

  190. Bob p

    this should be the snp’s mantra,that is a reserved matter.

  191. Ghillie

    Breeks pet, what is going on for you ?

    This really isn’t like you.

    Good to air these ideas about sovereignity for example and the discussion that follows, often from folk who know alot about the history, legality and liklihood of that tact working, can help steer the Indy movement in what could be a useful direction.

    I think the point being made is that even though Scotland voted to stay in the EU, not all of those voters meant it to be achieved through Independence. That was not the question they were asked.

    So that for now is not yet the Sovereign Will or Will of the Sovereign People of Scotland. How I wish it was.

    And that is what the SNP are working on.

    Your lashing out at the SNP is not, at the moment, constructive criticism, but harsh and unfair. We’ve got the jolly old BBC and their chums for that.

    We are all disgusted and continualy angered by the tripe the BUM present and I’m not surprised your frustration is reaching a place of pain. You have my sympathy with that!

    The Indy Movement IS gathering and making plans = )

    We’re nae feart. And there’s alot of work to do = )

  192. Mungo

    Ghillie, already have several times over the years. Hence my frustration.

  193. Ghillie

    Rock, Are you actualy suggesting that folk who do not vote the way you choose to should suffer to teach them a lesson?

    No way. NOT in my Scotland.

  194. scottieDog

    @Bob P
    This is the thing the Scottish press and opposition parties are trying to obfuscate..
    – what the Scottish gov can and can’t do.

    The main thing it can’t really do is pull itself out of recession. That’s the gift of whoever controls the money supply – the uk treasury. That’s a simple fact.
    Greece can’t control it’s economy because it doesn’t control its currency. Scotland has far less power than greece.

    I’m trying to read up on ways scotland can run a currency in parallel with the £ to mitigate this. Yanis varoufakis was close to implementing similar on greece before he resigned.

  195. Peter McCulloch

    @Robert Peffers
    5 July, 2017 at 1:13 pm

    I agree with you that the publications, broadcasters and much of on-line media are controlled by the same media & broadcasters as are doing the anti-SNHS propaganda.

    But I have noticed that more and more people are writing letters into my local newspapers (owned by the Johnson press) about their positive experience of their treatment and praising staff, some have even criticised the media over its reports of our health service.

    So no matter how much the media may attempt to keep the flood gates closed about how well the Scottish Government is doing in managing the Scottish National Health service compared to other parts of the UK.

    If we continue to maintain the pressure, the flood gates will burst truth will get out to people about how they are being lied to and manipulated isled by the unionist media.

  196. Shug

    The BBC has had several days of the Scottish economy is tanking and what is Nicola doing
    Now we see it is growing faster than the UK what is call Kaye discussing
    Oh school bullying
    NIcols responsible

    These people are quite mad if they think their news in believable

  197. scottieDog

    In my humble opinion, the SNP running an indy campaign now presents the press, uk gov, and opposition parties with a free gift. It allows them to put the SNP and indy at forefront of the news, blaming indyref on bad economic performance etc. Meanwhile, the destructive brexit negotiations carry on quietly out of the spotlight giving the neoliberals a free hand.

    No I think the card should only be played towards the end when things are looking very turbulent.
    All about timing for me.

  198. jfngw

    Sounds like BBC Radio Scotland had to cancel their Scotland in recession extravaganza and cobble something together at short notice. So they went for normal standby option of asking a LibDem (party is actually irrelevant here) in to condemn Scotland being given a choice after the Brexit negotiations.

    So rather than discuss what can the rest of the UK learn from SNHS or why did the Scottish economy have better growth than expected, lets wheel out another negative Scotland, just SNP really, story. They will claim it is their job to hold the SG to account, but that’s not what they are doing.

  199. Aikenheed

    What Scottiedog and bobp said on reserved matters AND timing

  200. Abulhaq

    Press such as the Herald should sport a UK government approved logo. Well deserved chaps!

  201. Robert Peffers

    @Phil says: 5 July, 2017 at 8:19 pm@
    Robert Peffers says:

    “Yes, this must be where we all do something big or small to support the cause of independence. Use of the media is mostly closed off thus our personal action must be at a personal level whether that be speaking with neighbours or house-to-house.
    The earlier reference to IndyPosterBoy was helpful.”

    May I amplify upon the existing strategy, Phil?

    There are long held strategy rules that have long stood the test of time.

    One such is that you do not interrupt your enemy when they are making mistakes – that one comes from one of the greatest strategists the World has ever known, Napoleon Bonaparte. There is little doubt that the present Tory Government are beset by several mistakes of their own making.

    Another old saying is that you do not attempt to fix that which is not broken and then there is the one that says patience is a virtue.

    So if we stand back a little, and look at the bigger picture, what we see is a United Kingdom that is in big, big trouble and a United Kingdom Government that is faffing about in sheer panic with far more troubles to deal with than they have any reasonable prospects of overcoming.

    They have UKexit and are so stupid they call it Brexit. Whatever else may happen Britain, which contains eight distinct countries and only four of them are under Westminster rule, will not be leaving the EU. In Short Britain, as such, will not be exiting the EU because all Britain is not in the EU and some parts of Britain that are in the EU are not under United Kingdom control anyway.

    Then there is the thorny problem of Ireland where the borders between the partitioned parts of Ireland are also outwith the full control of the Westminster Parliament. A parliament that is the de facto Parliament of the country of England.

    Westminster has no control over the Republic and so has not got full control over the borders between the two parts of Ireland and the EU will also have a say in that little problem.

    Then there is the slow, but ever increasing, movement towards Scottish Independence. The more the unionists harp on about taking another referendum on Scottish independence off the table the more Scots see that the unionists are terrified of there being another referendum and, because of the chaos already increasingly frightening the Westminster Establishment, they just cannot handle the increased pressures they have created for themselves.

    In short – now is not the time to attempt to change strategy for the SG/SNP and risk an unwanted change in the slow movement towards Scottish independence.

    We are now in a situation of winning over the second most difficult NO voters to convert and those among them who are balanced on the knife edge between YES & NO could very easily fall either way if we are not very careful. It won’t take much of a push to make those last few converts fall on the wrong side for independence.

    The proof of that is the swing that saw 13 Tory MPs returned to Westminster, most with very thin majorities. It will not take much to see that swing reversed and that is why the media are in an increased frenzy of anti-Scottish propaganda since the General Election.

    I may be wrong but my impression is that we are in the end-game for Scottish Independence and we would be fools to abandon the tactics that got us to this point in the first place.

  202. Thepnr

    I see Rock has had a personality transplant while on his holidays.

  203. Phil Robertson

    Thepnr says:
    5 July, 2017 at 10:53 pm
    @Phil Robertson
    “Your at the wind up now eh Phil? LOL There is no page 59 you lying fucker. Piss off back to the shithole you crawled from.

    No page 59 check out the lying fuckers statement for yourselves.”

    The document has 61 pages in the PDF download. (Because of cover pages and the like, page 1 of the report is page 6 in the PDF). The 59th page is the numbered as 54. So I can see where confusion has arisen.

    In any event, the quote is IN the document and you are still mistaken.

  204. Ron Maclean

    If it ain’t broke don’t fix it + never interfere when the enemy is making mistakes = – 21

    These aren’t strategy rules they’re excuses for not doing very much.

  205. Dr Jim

    Lots of folk seem to have this funny idea that one day Unionists will wake up see the truth and demand to vote YES

    They wont you know, and the reasons for it are the same as they always has been, Sectarianism, Fear, Distrust, or because they just don’t want to know and many don’t even care what happens to our country because they can see no further than the ends of their noses

    The ones who distrust our argument also distrust the Unionist argument so they stick with the most consistent liars because that’s what they’re used to

    The Fearties are easy all the Unionists had to do at the 2014 referendum was threaten bad stuff would happen and Boom they voted NO

    The Sectarianists will never change on threat of death, they’re just Nutters and you can’t do anything with them

    So who do we win over to Scotlands cause, well it’s the Fearties who comprise all ages but particularly the NO pensioners or soon to be pensioners and you do it the same way Inglind did it to us
    You demonstrate very clearly that Inglind is Broke Skint Penniless and their economy is a basket case of leaky mince
    and they couldn’t afford to pay the Brexit bill or pay the public sector workers more because they spent all their money on Baad decisions and Europe doesn’t want them anyway

    What you don’t do is announce another referendum then wait for Westminster to attack us so we have to defend Independence
    We attack them first on every level of economic competence
    It’s time to make them defend themselves then interrupt them with other accusations while they’re struggling to answer the first question

    Now we’ve had lots of practice doing that

  206. ebreah

    Robert Peffers@10:33

    Sir, What I think some are trying to convey is that we cannot passively wait for all things to go wrong and act according to such circumstances. We will be hostage to the situation, as the GE2017 has shown. In my opinion, Theresa May had lobbed an unexpected event that turned out to be an obstacle to the cause of independence. I rather we have 56 MPs to the see the end of the Union. Like it or not we had been wrong-footed in that situated.

    What some indy bloggers had commented on the loss of MPs are true. SNP had lost the Yes momentum that had sent 56 MPs to Westmisnter. It is time to recoup the support. The SNP cannot contain and control that much energy. It must ride on it. It has to be radical and confrontational. The SNP and Scottish Government lay the foundation (and a very strong one) to cleave Scotland from UK/England for good. At this rate, the perception is that Scotland is slightly dissimilar that UK/England. What it should be is, actually, radically different for them.

    This is akin to taking the centrist/Blairite postion of being all things to all persons. It is no longer viable. There is now a distinct left-right split in the general population. Jeremy Corbyn had shown that leftist/socialist arguments do win you vote. There is nothing to fear no more in promoting such ideas. Hence SNP should turn even more leftward than it believed to be.

    In my opinion two things can radically change Scotland; one, a radical land reform (400+ landowners versus the rest of Scotland..what are we suppose to be afraid of?) and two, local government reform (decentralise as much as possible; once you instill the believe that you can run everything by yourselves, Scottish independence is the logical outcome). Return back the shires and the burghs to the people.

    Your reasonings are sound too and I don’t not dispute that. But we are running out of time. When Indyref2 comes, I don’t think I will be able to take another disappointment. Took me 3 days to shake it off. As such we must constructively engineer a situation/atmosphere of another better fair Scotland is possible and it the logical choice when voting the nest time.

    p/s: I am in Malaysia and this is my gut/personal feeling on the matter. If I can feel that SNP are dilly-dallying in this matter, I am sure such feeling is much more amplified in Scotland. We simply cannot lose the next time around. Rarely has a second chance be accorded so easily.

  207. ebreah

    What it should be is, actually, radically different from* them.

    (Excuse the error)

  208. Breastplate

    Breeks is right.
    In the few short years before the 2014 independence referendum the Yes movement was born developing into an unstoppable juggernaut, well almost but that’s another story for another day.
    It grew rapidly because everyone was on the same page working in one direction towards independence. The SNP had given us all a start, a schedule and a deadline. A beginning, a middle and an end point. It couldn’t be better and we all got busy expressing the merits of self determination to anyone who’d listen or not.

    Now compare it with what we have now.
    Has the starting gun been fired? Well, sort of but not really.
    Have we a schedule? Have we an end point? Well, sort of but not really.
    Are we all on the same page? No.
    Are we all pulling in the same direction? No.
    It’s all a bit wishy fucking washy.
    Is the fact that we are completely rudderless at the moment the fault of the SNP? Yes, without a doubt. This debacle puts me in mind of Monty Python’s 100m dash for people with no sense of direction, except this time it’s not funny.

    Do I think the SNP are doing a good job in pushing the merits of independence? Absolutely not, they’re fixated on the day job.
    Are the SNP doing a good job as a door mat? Absolutely yes.
    Does anybody respect a door mat? No, they don’t.
    Can the SNP do much better? Of course they can.
    Will they? Who the fuck knows.

    This is my opinion, it’s not fixed and I’m open to reasonable and differing views.

  209. Robert Graham

    I believe our media and the BBC in their quest to extinguish nationalism and deal a decisive knockout blow . have been lulled into a false sense of their own power of persuasion , they with total control of all media are spoiled for choice ,
    So they go for overkill on steroids anything and everything is a target , they are becoming sloppy and careless, they haven’t learned anything our the past few years , The Propaganda isn’t working its now starting to become embarrassing even to supporters of this Union .
    If our media are to be believed we right now in Scotland are enduring hell on earth and Armageddon is just round the corner , nothing functions , every service is on the brink of failure , the only little problem being is , however closely people look they dont recognise this calamity they describe , Tough eh .

  210. colin alexander

    The (former) heroes of the independence movement -The SNP.

    What exactly have they done to promote independence since 2014? Nothing.

    If it’s mentioned, the SNP are quick to say: it’s not us talking about independence.

    The whole GE campaign was: Keep Scotland strong at Westminster.

    The indyref2 was only used as a deterrent to Brexit. A referendum deterrent, useful as a threat, but never to be used.

    If the SNP see the UK Govt make Brexit concessions then indyref2 will be off the agenda.

    It will only resurface come the 2021 election campaign when the SNP will attempt to con the gullible that a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence for Scotland.

    The SNP are the devolution party. The SNP administration ( of devolution). Credit to them, they have been the best at it. Much better than Labour or the LibDems ever were.

    Their number one goal is supposed to be independence for Scotland.

    Do I believe that? No.

    Do many independence supporters believe that? No. That’s why they stayed home at the GE and didn’t even bother to vote for the SNP.

    Only some people on here and those who voted Tory in June believe that. People who like to believe in heroes and bogeymen.

    The next year will be spent with the SNP hoping Brexit talks lead to UK Govt concessions, so indyref 2 can be dropped, whilst allowing the SNP to pretend they would have gone through with it.

    The mandate is already there for an independence referendum – the SNP’s favoured choice.

    So, why the focus on supporting the SNP? Why the focus on a “Keep Scotland Strong at Westminster”. Why the focus on consensus and getting Scotland’s voice heard in Brexit talks?

    Shouldn’t the 100% focus now be on achieving independence? 100% focus on YES, not Brexit talks and Westminster?

    If independence were indeed the number one goal, that would be correct.

    So, why is YES for independence not the number one priority now?

    I don’t need to tell you, if you are sensible enough to work out the answer for yourself.

    For the others, no point in telling you, you wouldn’t believe it anyway.

  211. Peter McCulloch

    In my opinion I don’t believe we will ever be able to persuade the hard line unionists into supporting Independence, as far as I am concerned they are a lost cause.

    Its the young people and soft nos we need to persuade that only with independence will our country and its people grow and prosper.

    The unionists should have on the defensive, for instance when they claim that Scotland is an economic basket case and can’t afford to be independent.

    SNP HQ should have been challenging them at every opportunity to explain how after 300 plus years of being governed from Westminster, Scotland is in such a parlous economic state and why do claim then that the union is good for our country.

    Instead all we have ever had from HQ is has been a deafening silence.

  212. Thepnr

    @Phil Robertson

    “The 59th page is the numbered as 54. So I can see where confusion has arisen.”

    The quote is not on page 54 just as it wasn’t on page 59 either.

    Don’t worry I found it though on page 55. Accuracy in your posts it seems Phil is something you lack, was the misdirection intentional or just repeating the same mistakes again and again?

  213. Dave McEwan Hill

    Are “Breastplate” and “Colin Alexander” the same person? Sounds like it to me

  214. Petra

    @ Bob p says at 9:05pm …. ‘’I think the snp should be stating things in layman’s terms, tell the people, no we can’t do such and such, our allowance/handout from London doesn’t cover that project. Keep hammering this home.’’

    I totally agree with you Bob. Nicola and her colleagues should be ‘’hammering home’’ the basics at every turn such as Westminster still has control over 82.5% of powers …. 93% up until 2016, as most people I meet don’t seem to have a clue about this (and other basics). I’ve also mentioned this on ‘’ as the site has been set up to cover ideas / suggestions to help us win the next Referendum.

    @ Peter McCulloch says at 1:13pm ….. ‘’I agree with you that the publications, broadcasters and much of on-line media are controlled by the same media & broadcasters as are doing the anti-SNHS propaganda. But I have noticed that more and more people are writing letters into my local newspapers (owned by the Johnson press) about their positive experience of their treatment and praising staff, some have even criticised the media over its reports of our health service. So no matter how much the media may attempt to keep the flood gates closed about how well the Scottish Government is doing in managing the Scottish National Health service compared to other parts of the UK. If we continue to maintain the pressure, the flood gates will burst truth will get out to people about how they are being lied to and manipulated isled by the unionist media.’’

    Spot on Peter. Over 1.7 million people attend A&E, ALONE, every year in Scotland with the scores in relation to patient satisfaction being high. The media is basically digging its own grave as they seem to forget that this is an area that most people have direct experience of. They are in fact just p*ssing off millions of people who are / have received great treatment in Scotland and the staff, over 160,000, who work in the hospitals. Add to that relatives and friends that they discuss the situation with … complain about media lies.

    Then we have the couch potatoes who loll back and take in what the BBC has to tell them. They’ll see that the situation in England, their abolished NHS / Social Care Service, is absolutely horrendous. No escaping from that and then the Scotland versus England penny drops.

    The Media should think of informing the Scots of the implication of NHS privatisation in England, that is that it leads to our Barnett sweety money being cut (trying to force us to privatise) and the fact that more and more elderly people are moving to Scotland putting an additional strain on our resources.

    The following is an article relating to the Golden Jubilee highlighting the increased workload and excellent service being carried out.

  215. Craig Fraser

    I suffered a sub archniod brain heamorrahage in May 2009. Was taken to Raigmore Hospital Inverness. Scanned assessed within a couple of hours, spent a week in Raigmore, then a week at Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, back to Raigmore for a further week. Had support from Stroke Scotland and CHSS. All staff and follow on support excellent. Then DWP get involved and it all goes down hill rapidly. I then receive ESA and when the DWP over pay me I get accuses of NOT answering a question I have NOT asked and told it is my fault. On appeal was told genuine mistake is irrelevant. How do they work this out?

  216. Breeks

    None of you are seeing it.

    Independence, if we win it, is now going to be a skin of the teeth job. If we’re lucky, we might just shade victory, but it’s going to be a white knuckle ride to the finish, fighting UK propaganda and homegrown sedition all the way.

    I understand that the Brexit result was an amalgam of opinion that included pro-Union Europhiles and Pro-Indy Eurosceptics, but the SNP has adopted a strategy which panders to those opinions. I get that. It’s wrong. The SNP should never have compromised an inch from the binary mandate given in the Brexit Referendum that Scotland remains in the EU. Soften it yes, adopt an air of compromise and conciliation by all means, but don’t forfeit the mandate. It’s not a minor detail, it’s the sovereign bit.

    Theresa May, who I am no fan of, is nevertheless right about one thing. She is a Remainer but bound to deliver Brexit in circumstances constrained by will of the people. The people have spoken and the duty of government is to serve the people, and that’s the view in England! Here in Scotland, the people have also spoken and the duty of government is to serve not just the people, but the SOVEREIGN people of Scotland. If we, the people, are sovereign, NOBODY is our superior; neither a Westminster government who wants to pull Scotland out of Europe, nor an SNP government which wants to massage the binary choice made by the people of Scotland into an advisory opinion they can use as licence to bargain away Scotland’s EU membership in lieu of EFTA, EE, access to the single market… whatever. It doesn’t matter. You can fudge a democratic opinion, but you cannot alter its sovereign mandate.

    If our own, elected, SNP government lacks the basic understanding and respect for the absolute condition of Scottish sovereignty, then what chance do we have of persuading either Westminster, or the International community that Scottish Sovereignty is an inalienable birthright of every Scottish citizen? Our champions of Independence, the SNP, don’t know where the finishing line is. What fuller expression of Scotland’s sovereign will can there be beyond an outright majority at Holyrood and 56 out of 59 SNP MP’s at Westminster? And yet those heady days have come and gone but our Sovereignty remains under glass and out of reach. Until you grasp the meaning of Sovereignty, every trip to Westminster is now a run down the same pointless cul de sac.

    The Scottish government should have been absolutely resolute in presenting to the Scottish electorate the fallback condition that Scotland remains in the EU, the sovereign choice of the people, and that any and every attempt by Westminster to confound that sovereign voice should be contested and rejected.

    We should not now be in a campaign debating whether Scotland should or shouldn’t be exiting Europe. Scotland has made that decision. WE STAY IN EUROPE. What we should be engaged upon is a no holds barred charm offensive to promote the virtues and benefits of European citizenship, and making crystal clear the absolute sacrilege that any government in Westminster thinks it has the right to remove such privileges from us. Not just turning No voters into Yessers, but equal prominence given to turning Eurosceptics into Europhiles.

    Our Sovereignty is absolute and uncompromising. Westminster sovereignty is the crock.
    Our choice to stay in Europe is SOVEREIGN. Westminster cannot overrule it. The SNP cannot overrule it.

    We are doomed to going round and round in circles until such times as “somebody” decides enough is enough and at last refers to the fundamental and essential issue of sovereignty, and dictates who is the absolute arbiter. In England, that is God, and the divine sovereignty of their monarch. In Scotland, it is you and me, the people.

    Wielding sovereignty requires democratic process, a decision has to be called for, collected, and announced, but being sovereign is an absolute condition, NOBODY can overrule our sovereign decision except us.

    Yesterday, thepnr and Shroedinger’s Cat made my blood boil by trying to tell me that Scotland is inevitably out of the EU. It’s a done deal. If that is so, then the SNP had betrayed the sanctity of Scotland’s sovereign voice, and demonstrably does not understand what Scottish sovereignty is, does, and means. That makes the SNP just as despotic about governing us as Westminster.

    Until such times as the SNP stops to reflect on the issue of sovereignty, actually understands both the physical and abstract constraints and protection of Scotland’s unique sovereignty, then this matter of constitutional debate should go no further. It’s back to constitutional school for everybody. The modern practice and adopted conventions of the day are quite irrelevant. Archaic or not, these constitutional issues of sovereignty are absolute and timeless.

    The issue of Scotland staying in Europe has been decided by a sovereign dicktat of the Scottish people. Westminster can like it or lump it, but cannot change it or enforce it, and the SNP should properly understand why Westminster can like it or lump it, but they appear to be ill informed or misguided about doing so.

    I’m not going to say it again. Frankly I think engaging with the SNP is a waste of fecking breath, but get a Judicial Review from the Scottish Court of Session to define the legitimacy of Scotland’s ancient and inalienable sovereignty. It is the nucleus of what Scotland is, and it provides the definitive resolution of our constitional emancipation from a bogus and contractually inept Union.

    Take that Legal review, and enshrine what it means into a new written constitution, which is essentially an instruction book for us, and all future generations of Scots, to understand what their country is, how it works, and how it’s inalienable sovereignty cannot be removed from the people, neither by Westminster, Holyrood, Brussels nor New York. It is ours, ours alone, forever and for all time. No overlord or elected officer can bargain it away. Ever. No United Kingdom can properly exist where it encroaches on our sovereignty. These are unalterable parameters.

    I’m am not out to destroy or damage the SNP. It is the government I want. But please, retire to peaceful solitude and meditation on a hilltop and don’t come back down until you have seen the genuine enlightenment over this issue of Sovereignty.

    By what authority does Westminster overrule Scottish sovereign opinion?
    By what authority does Holyrood overrule Scottish sovereign opinion?
    If we vote Yes, or No, at ScotRef, who will have any authority to set the result aside?

    It boils down to this, if you’re a sovereign government but you’re powerless, then you’re not a sovereign government. But you SNP in Holyrood and Westminster ARE a sovereign government. Your power, office and authority comes directly from the expressed democratic will of a legally sovereign people. The perception that you are powerless is therefor your own delusion. Your defeat is right there in your head.

  217. colin alexander

    @ Breeks 6 July 2017 at 12.14pm

    Excellent comment. As I’ve been saying all along. Scotland is already sovereign. But that sovereignty is not exerted within the Union.

    I can see a positive for that if independence were been offered as the solution: Independence being offered as the ultimate exercise of sovereignty as an alternative to ignored Scottish sovereignty by WM within the Union.

    But when the SNP / Scot Govt aren’t all out for independence then just accepting Westminster domination and abuses is an abject failure in democracy by the SNP Scot Govt too.

    They consistently fail to stand up for the mandate they were given by the electorate, other than by moaning about injustices.

    Their current answer is: keep voting SNP and we’ll keep moaning about injustices within the Union. That’s it, basically.


  218. Thepnr


    I made your blood boil because I disagreed with you. Well tough.

    For sure the people are sovereign. We’ll exercise our sovereignty when it comes to another referendum on Independence.

    Even if the result doesn’t go the way you want, then it shows that the people have exercised that sovereignty in coming to their decision just the same and that’s as it should be.

    On the EU I hope that you are right and that I am proven wrong and that somehow Scotland can remain in the EU even if the UK leaves, that will take something extraordinary happening in the very near future that is not yet visible to me at least.

    You must see something very different that will prevent us being forced out of the EU before Scotland gains Independence.

  219. Breastplate

    @Dave McEwan Hill
    “Are “Breastplate” and “Colin Alexander” the same person? Sounds like it to me.”

    Explain to me why the fuck it would matter if I was one person posting here or 2?
    Does it diminish what I say in anyway?
    Are you incapable of contemplating other views from people who are pretending to be more than one person or are you just talking pish?
    But for the record, I couldn’t give a shit whether you think I’m 2 people or 22.

  220. Peter McCulloch

    6 July, 2017 at 12:08 pm

    Thanks Petra

    The more patients who come out in public to express their satisfaction at how they were treated in our NHS and its staff.

    Then the more that will counter the unionists and their media attack dogs attempts to undermine the Scottish Government and the morale of those who do sterling work in our Scottish NHS.

    Sorry the word in my post at 1:13pm isled should have read as misled.

  221. Petra

    ”The issue of Scotland staying in Europe has been decided by a sovereign dicktat of the Scottish people. Westminster can like it or lump it, but cannot change it or enforce it, and the SNP should properly understand why Westminster can like it or lump it, but they appear to be ill informed or misguided about doing so.”

    FGS Breeks. The ”sovereign diktat” of the Scottish people in 2016 related to 62% of Scots, who voted, voting for the UNITED KINGDOM to stay or not in the EU. That Referendum related to the UK leaving the EU, NOT Scotland particularly. What you have to consider is what percentage of the 62% don’t want Independence? Have you considered THEIR ”sovereign diktat”, as Nicola Sturgeon seems to be doing?

    The only way that we can stay in Europe is to hold a referendum on Independence and succeed. And the only way we will achieve that is if we support the SNP and get off of our butts and try to convert people to the cause. We don’t need all of this convoluted theorising, it’s as simple as that. Get out from behind the computer and do something constructive to help raise support for Independence.

  222. Phil Robertson

    “By the way the D&G figures are NOT in the report. No figures for individual health boards are.
    Stop lying,”

    “Don’t worry I found it though on page 55.”

    Two quotes from your posts. Who’s lying now?

  223. Breastplate

    Ffs Phil,
    On the subject of lying, I’ve asked you and Sensibledave quite a number of times the question, should Scotland be an independent country?
    You have never once answered that Yes or No question but professed to having no opinion on it.
    Yet here you are full of no opinions telling other people on a Scottish independence website that your no opinions are better than theirs.
    You’re a lying fucker and so is Sensibledave.

  224. Petra

    Ooops that should have read at 1:50pm ”Have you considered THEIR ATTITUDE towards ”sovereign diktat”, as Nicola Sturgeon seems to be doing?”

    And just to add that around 10% of Scots don’t seem to want a Scottish Parliament never mind sovereignty.

    If we want to acquire our Independence and stay in the EU all it would take is for every supporter of Independence to convert one person each to the cause and that’s not outwith our capability, is it? That is unless you come onto sites like this and start persuading former SNP / Independence supporters to drop the SNP like a hot potato.

    1+1 = 2.

    1-1 = 0.

  225. Thepnr

    @Phil Robinson

    Nice, I admire your dedication to the cause. You managed to read through the whole report, then the appendices before getting to the references.

    Then after going through 6 pages of them you found reference number 100 that suited your purpose perfectly. Said purpose being to undermine the Scottish government and Independence.

    Hat tip for trying, just need your accuracy to be as diligent as your scouring of reports are in search of SNP BAD. Then you might get promoted 🙂

  226. Phil Robertson

    Breastplate says:
    6 July, 2017 at 2:05 pm

    Oh no, another incoherent spate from behind a sad pseudonym!

    “On the subject of lying, I’ve asked you and Sensibledave quite a number of times…. but professed to having no opinion on it.”
    Firstly I’d like to know when I “professed” on the matter. Secondly, if it is an opinion of what ever shade then, by definition, it cannot be a lie.

    “your no opinions are better than theirs.” Everyone is entiled to their opinion. However others are under no obligation to agree with them.

    “You’re a lying fucker”
    Most of my posts are about factual inaccuracies. In this case, it took time but Thepnr did have to concede that the information that I quoted was in the Nuffield report. So, no lying there.

  227. Breastplate

    You still haven’t answered the question Phil.
    It matters because you come on here professing neutrality when you are far from a neutral bystander.
    You expect people to take you seriously when you can view everything only through the broken prism of Britishness.
    The very idea that you somehow have this superior world view that advocates that a country should not make its own decisions because you found a fact somewhere sometime is ludicrous to the extreme, so once more for good measure.

    Should Scotland be an independent country?

  228. Thepnr

    @Phil Robinson

    It took time for me to concede that your quote was indeed contained in the Nuffeild report. Doesn’t mean that I agree with anything you added in relation to that quote because that was just rubbish.

    You took that quote then tried to make out that all of the SNHS faced making 8% savings when the truth was it was just that one health board and that the average across Scotland was 5%.

    Neither you nor the report considered either the additional spending on Social Care that it is intended to keep people out of hospital in the first place so I asked you to compare Apples with Apples.

    Anyway, isn’t it time you answered Breastplates question?

  229. Mungo

    Breeks… aye I agree with what you say but the problem the SNP have is that Scotland has already voted away its sovereignty, and probably needs to vote it back before we can move forward.

  230. Breeks

    Thanks for the moral support Mungo, but Im sorry, I think you’re wrong too. The sovereignty cannot be removed from the people of Scotland, not by a vote, not by any abdication nor delegation, not even by death.

    It’s a pity that Angus Robertson didn’t get the satisfaction of doing it; standing in front of 52 SNP MP’s at Westminster, and on the passing of some piece of legislation or other, simply state that the legislation didn’t apply to Scotland, and thus plunging Westminster into immediate constitutional crisis.

    You don’t have to declare Independence to enact the sovereignty, merely declare a piece of Westminster legislation as something contrary to the will of Scotland, and you immediately place Westminster on wafer thin ice. If a majority of Scottish MP’s cite Scottish sovereignty at odds with Westminster’s declared intentions, then what command over Scottish sovereignty does Westminster have to exert in order to force its intentions upon us? It has no mandate to overrule Scottish sovereignty, because if it can, then it isn’t actually sovereignty is it? Think of it as a writ; By the authority invested in me…” “Let me stop you there Prime Minister. Authority invested in you by whom?”

    If Theresa May has legislation that she means to impose upon Scotland, but that legislation is opposed by all the elected representatives of the sovereign people of Scotland, then what sovereign jurisdiction does she lay claim to, and what superiority over Scottish “sovereignty” does she propose to invoke? She hasn’t the constitutional levers at her disposal to do it. Even by referring the matter to the Queen, Theresa May’s constitutional superior, the monarch is a properly understood constitutional inferior to Scottish sovereignty.

    Now you might well dismiss all this as convoluted theorising, but on the other hand, if you’d actually read the constitutional small print, you might have saved Scotland the humiliation of seeing our elected MP’s laughed at, told to sit down and shut up, and generally be treated like dirt, and you might actually have exercised sufficient leverage to remove control over broadcasting in Scotland from Westminster’s control, and done so without resorting to a UDI or de facto coup, but achieved your goal merely challenging Westminster to stop you.

    But hey, what the fuck do I know?

  231. Rock


    “Our Sovereignty is absolute and uncompromising.”

    Our pretendy “sovereignty” is not worth the paper it was written on.

    We will never achieve independence until we accept that.

    310 years on, we are still as much a colony of England as ever.

  232. Thepnr

    Personality transplant failure. Reverting to original…

  233. John Sharp

    An interesting, manipulative, use of quotation by the Herald. They cite “toxic” political culture in Scotland as if to say – look at us directly quoting from the report findings (so it must be true) that a toxic political culture is causing problems to Scottish NHS.

    However, if you look at the report original you find ‘Many also felt, however, that the “toxic” political culture in Scotland made it . . . ‘. It’s clear that the authors put the word “toxic” in quotes to show that this was the expression used by a number of interviewees. They do not endorse the term or use it to express their own view.

  234. Dek

    The Herald deserves to wither and die . Don’t buy it or read it.

  235. Petra

    Breeks read through this and reflect. It looks as though we fit the criteria of being a bl**dy Colony. Not such a bad deal at all. Looks as though we have another way out of this.

  236. twathater

    Breeks 1030pm
    Absolutely Breeks that is what should have happened when we sent OUR ELECTED 56 MPs down to the midden, people keep saying we are an equal partner in the UK, WE ARE NOT and the only way to prove it is by doing what Breeks said ,if wastemonster are imposing ANYTHING on Scotland that is not in our best interests , don’t ask or disagree just TELL them straight NO that will not be happening

    As Rob Peff keeps telling us wastemonster is the defacto parliament of ingerland, everyone knows this ,why then does our reps have to be overuled and ignored ,and more importantly why do we stand for it

    We don’t have to take it to the judiciary , it has been done previously and historically, wastemonster are the one’s who will have to prove otherwise and they cannot

    I personally am sick and tired of our reps being denigrated ,abused ,jeered at and ignored

    Gloves off time Nicola TELL wastemonster that as the First Minister of Scotland representing the sovereign will of the majority of the votes in Scotland , Scotland will NOT be leaving the EU, then let’s see what constitutional crisis develops

  237. Breeks


    None of the countries colonised by the British Empire had a written down constitutional sovereignty which enshrined popular sovereignty upon its people, had that constitutional sovereignty and thus status as a nation recognised by the international community of its day, and recognised as something inalienable, non transferable, and unimpeachable for all time.

    The Declaration of Arbroath, and its formal recognition by the Divine authority of the Pope gave Scottish sovereignty equal legitimacy and status to the sovereignty of every other Nation, but unlike every other Nation, the mechanism whereby an “ordinary” divine sovereignty could be subjugated by a stronger “ordinary” divine sovereignty and the will of God be done, Scotland’s unique sovereignty could not be subjugated by conquest or colonisation because Scotland’s sovereignty is not determined by God but the people of Scotland. It wasn’t God’s will that was definitive, it was the people who were sovereign, not a divinely appointed monarch who could be toppled in battle or conquest.

    Scotland does not have an unconquerable Nation, but it does have unconquerable sovereignty, and thus any colonisation, domination, or usurpation of power is confounded by the intractable conundrum of what to do about Scottish sovereignty. You can seize the throne of Scotland but find it is nothing but a chair to sit on.

    I believe it is the fact that English monarchs down the ages and throughout the Wars of Independence where repeatedly confounded by this elusive Scottish sovereignty they could never grasp, that we actually have a “Union” at all.

    That which you cannot hold you can only hope to control, and the Act of Union was an English power grab to affect “control” over Scottish Will-o-the-wisp sovereignty. They could never defeat Scottish sovereignty, so devised the cunning “Union” to imprison it. That is what the whole act of Union is, and why the Act of Union seeks to be something more than a confederal Union between two sovereign Kingdoms. The whole object, every chapter and verse was a ruse to affect control of Scotland’s sovereignty.

    The Declaration of Arbroath is not merely some ancient piece of manuscript, its Scotland’s own Gordian Knot; an unsolvable puzzle safeguarding Scottish sovereignty and keeping it inviolable for all time. We have simply allowed ourselves to be misled.

    A rare few perhaps do, but the vast majority of Scots have no grasp of what the Declaration of Arbroath actually does. It literally does have actual powers, like some great mythical talisman from a legend, or an Act of divinity, but actual ethereal powers which have secured themselves in Scotland’s secular and terrestrial reality. If that doesn’t make your hairs stand on end, then it should.

    Please, take some time to think about that. Westminster has NO authority to command Scottish sovereignty. It is an illusion.

  238. Breeks

    Post gone astray, but I’ll say it again.

    Scotland is not like any other colony or conquest because no other colonial conquest has its sovereignty so clearly defined, ratified and protected the way Scotland has through the Declaration of Arbroath and its recognition by the Pope.

    Scottish sovereignty in not divine like other countries founded in the medieval ages, and cannot be supplanted by conquest of our monarch the way other nations can be.

    The Declaration of Arbroath, thus recognised, is Scotland’s very own Gordian Knot which confounds would-be colonisers and invaders; you might very well invade the country, defeat its armies, rout its monarch, but sovereignty will forever elude you.

    For centuries, throughout the wars of Independence, English monarchs have coveted Scotland, but forever been confounded by the intractable conundrum of a sovereignty that could not be seized. Seize the throne of Scotland and all you hold is a chair to sit on.

    The Gordian Knot was defeated by Alexander the Great’s lateral thinking as he put a sword through the knot that was impossible to untie. He didn’t solve the puzzle, he got around it. The similar conundrum of Scotland’s inalienable popular sovereignty has not been defeated, but merely imprisoned inside a political “Union” that was cunningly designed to entrap it. They didn’t solve the problem, they got around it.

    That which you cannot defeat or destroy you can only hope to control. No colonial usurper can remove sovereignty from the people of Scotland. That is the reason why we have the Act of Union; tacit admission by the English that they cannot confound Scotland’s sovereignty, merely hoodwink the Scots and affect control over the sovereignty that cannot be seized.

    Think about that a moment. The only way the English could affect control over Scotland’s incapturable sovereignty was through a Union. Wales didn’t get a Union, Ireland didn’t get a Union, France didn’t get a Union, America, Australia, South Africa, North Africa, everywhere the Empire spread, ONLY Scotland, with its devilishly awkward Will-o-the-wisp sovereignty won a Union. Now ask yourself why. Scottish exceptionalism? Hardly. They thought of us as barbarians. No. They could not possess our clever little gem of sovereignty.

    In the Declaration of Arbroath, and its Papal recognition, what Scotland has is quite literally a thing akin to a mythical talisman imbued with magical powers, but unlike some fantastical fiction, the unique, ethereal, abstract concept of sovereignty of Scotland is made real, relevant, terrestrial, and thoroughly intractable.

    Westminster CANNOT wield Scotland’s sovereignty. It is imprisoned in the Act of Union, but more through our misunderstanding of the Act of Union rather than the Act of Union itself. The ONLY reason the Union has survived for 300 years is because Scotland has failed to grasp its constitutional strength and sovereign freedom. Even now, today, we refuse to see the constitutional truth that is there right in front of us.

    In it’s faulty or embattled wisdom, Scotland has taken tinkered with its mythical talisman of inalienable sovereignty, and clumsily given it the power of invisibility. Until the spell is broken, we cannot see it, but it is there. Saddest of all, some of us know it there and choose not to see it.

  239. Breeks

    There you go. Said it in stereo. Lol

  240. Rock


    “None of the countries colonised by the British Empire had a written down constitutional sovereignty which enshrined popular sovereignty upon its people”

    All those “non-sovereign” colonies became independent decades ago.

    While we are the laughing stock of the world, a colony of England after 310 years.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top