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Weak foundations

Posted on July 02, 2017 by

We’re always loath to criticise political journalists for feeble stories published during the summer season, when parliaments are in recess and there’s nothing much happening to fill space with. But the Sunday Post has started pretty early this year.

Let’s see if we can put a number on the degree of “dilution” here, shall we?

“The SNP have watered down a promise to build 50,000 new affordable homes by 2021.”

Right. So the number is now going to be lower, is it?

“Housing minister Mr Stewart said: ‘We are determined to increase and accelerate housing supply and have set out a five-year commitment to deliver at least 50,000 affordable homes, including 35,000 homes for social rent, backed by more than £3 billion investment. The vast majority of these will be new-build.

‘As well as building new homes we also work to bring empty homes back into use and support local authorities and housing associations in acquiring new social housing stock.'”

Oh. No, it’s not. Because as it turns out, there are still going to be 50,000 affordable homes that weren’t there previously. 50,000 families will still have an affordable home available to them to live in that wasn’t available before.

(According to the story this is more than enough to completely end homelessness in Scotland, with Shelter giving the number of households applying for homeless status or living in temporary accommodation as 40,000.)

The entire article – which is the Post’s lead politics story this weekend – is based on a semantic hairsplit over the word “build”, on the grounds that a small minority of the homes may in fact be either purchased or refurbished rather than completely new-built from the ground up.

(Which most people would probably regard as a welcome and efficient use of hard-pressed resources, given that it’s nearly always going to cost less to restore a disused house to good condition than to build one from scratch.)

Naturally the paper gets Scottish Labour in to dramatically over-inflate a quibble over grammar into a national crisis, but otherwise the “news” here is “Government pledge of 50,000 new affordable homes diluted into, er, pledge of 50,000 new affordable homes”.

Like we say, it’s the summer season. We do understand the difficulties. But if we don’t end up struggling a bit for material ourselves, it’ll be because the Scottish media will very likely be providing an endless supply of absurd nonsense like this.

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    352 to “Weak foundations”

    1. Ian McCubbin says:

      Well corrected by efficient reporting again.
      As I am in recess will leave at that.

    2. Ken MacColl says:

      Good job they still have The Broons!

    3. Stoker says:

      Rev wrote:

      “We’re always loath to criticise political journalists for feeble stories published during the summer season, when parliaments are in recess and there’s nothing much happening to fill space with.”

      Aye, but as you’re always preaching and teaching us, how many folk see past those big black bold lying headlines, the very same lying headlines that never go on a summer recess? Corruption 24/7!

    4. Andy Anderson says:

      How can a journalist enjoy lying. No moral fibre at all. Twats.

    5. Dan Huil says:

      Sunday Post: the tractors’ choice.

    6. Stoker says:

      BTW, anyone care to compare with Slabbers house building record?

    7. Effijy says:

      Does the Sunday Last Post for Scottish
      Journalism want Labour in power, the Scottisg
      Labour Party who built just 6, Yes I say again,
      just 6 new homes during their lady 5 year tenure
      In the Scottish Parliament, or perhaps they want the
      Rotors in power, who do not want Social housing
      at all.

      The sooner these Rags shut down the better.
      Poor old biddy who buys this stuff when her
      Peoples Friend annual is consummed won’t be around much longer
      To support them.

    8. mike d says:

      And how many did slab build during their reign in power? Wa****s.

    9. charlie says:

      “a market so short of new houses that 150,000 households in Scotland are waiting for a home”
      where’s that figure come from?

    10. yesindyref2 says:

      OT already but Rev might be interested

      From Sunday Herald: “Business leaders sick of Sturgeon pushing independence vote”

      From Belfast Telegraph: “Business sick of Sturgeon pushing for independence – Highland Spring boss”

      but as far as I can be bothered cheking line by line, identical article, just different headlines.

    11. Geronimo says:

      used to buy this paper but stopped doing so …its a tory rag nothing more nothing less

    12. gerry parker says:

      Well done Stu.
      Expose them at every opportunity.

      Ridicule them as fools.

    13. Stoker says:

      charlie wrote on 2 July, 2017 at 2:44 pm

      “A market so short of new houses that 150,000 households in Scotland are waiting for a home. Where’s that figure come from?”

      Kezia Dugdale’s Sudoku puzzle! 🙂

    14. gus1940 says:

      Guess what the SNPbad Broadcasting Corporation will be going on tomorrow morning.

      Watching today’s Politics Scotland one would be left with the impression that the actions or inactions of our colonial masters had absolutely nothing to do with the health of Scotland’s economy and that Holyrood and The SNP had 100% control of the levers of power.

    15. mike d says:

      Highland spring say business leaders sick of nicola pushing for indy. Well i won’t be supporting those f*****s anymore. It’ll be peroni water for me.

    16. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi yesindyref2.

      A pro-independence story from the Belfast Telegraph:-

      “Brexit changes Scottish independence context, says games firm boss”.

      http://archive.is/hhds7

    17. Dan Huil says:

      @mike d 3:12pm

      Correct. Boycott Highland Spring and all tractor companies.

    18. Doug Daniel says:

      I’d rather stay in a refurbished old build than a new build anyway…

    19. Shinty says:

      Highland Spring – just another f***er living off the Scottish Brand but would have our country subservient to Westminster rule for ever more.

    20. mike d says:

      I used to buy it all the time Dan.(Highland spring) Not anymore.

    21. jfngw says:

      @gus1940 3:11

      I’m sure the BBC will be asking the balance of power Scottish Tory leader how they intend to pressurise the WM government, which holds the most control over the Scottish economy, what policies they intend to press for. After all they have just voted to boost the NI economy, what are they doing for Scotland, so far zilch.

    22. Liz g says:

      Mike d @ 3.12
      Oh they did, did they.
      I have been going out of my way to buy Scottish water and makin sure my lot did the same…and it’s usually Highland Spring we all get….not anymore!
      Think there’s another few around anyway, Perthshire hill’s,, mibbi?
      Anyhoo I’ll find one.
      What is wrong with these people?

    23. Auld Rock says:

      Just to put things into some sort of proper prospective and remind ourselves just how many new homes the last FIB/Dem, Labour coalition built – EIGHT, LOL.

      Auld Rock

    24. Liz g says:

      Further to my last post…ALDI does Scottish water
      Strathrowan how could I have forgotten.
      There’s a bottle sitting in front of me duh!
      It’s an English company..no that it matters….it’s still Scottish water.

    25. Auld Rock says:

      Whoops – I meant perspective, silly me.

      Auld Rock

    26. jfngw says:

      Adding to my comment at 3:24

      As the Tories have stated this £1-2bn for NI will not increase there total spending it infers it will be reduced elsewhere.

      So if it’s from UK projects then it will be mostly lost in England.

      If it’s from all the nations, excluding NI obviously, then we can expect England to lose £850m-£1.7Bn, Scotland £100-200m and Wales £50m-£100m.

      This to keep the union together, a bit strange since the only countries actually in a union are losing cash. So the new slogan seems to be poorer together.

    27. Iain says:

      You can at least depend on yoons ensuring that they snatch defeat at every opportunity ie the owner of Highland spring ensuring that his product is boycotted by half the population of Scotland.

    28. The Dog Philosopher says:

      Jings, Crivens, Help ma Boab,
      Whits Wullie to do?
      He’s trapped inside a paper
      That still thinks it’s 1952!

    29. Joemcg says:

      Got me thinking. It must be a world record now for stories in the national press being anti or negative against a particular political party in ANY country on Earth.

    30. yesindyref2 says:

      @BDTT
      Thanks for that, posted it in the duplicate story in the “pro-independence” Sunday Herald.

      I’m sure the Sunday Herald will be posting an article about that real soon now.

      And the cow jumped over the moon and the little dog laughed to see such fun.

    31. colin alexander says:

      That’s nothing compared to the SP’s “impartial” guide to the independence referendum in 2014, where their “facts” were mostly BT assertions.

      Every time I commented pointing out some of their “facts” were disputed assertions and gave the YES campaign’s alternative assertions, the comment appeared briefly before being deleted.

    32. Capella says:

      Isn’t Highland Spring owned by an Arab sheik?

    33. Capella says:

      Have now bothered to look it up!

      Highland Spring is a Scottish supplier of bottled water. It produces still and sparkling water at its factory in Blackford, Perth and Kinross, although despite the name this area is not actually within the Scottish Highlands. Highland Spring was the highest-selling sparkling water in the UK in 2008[citation needed] and consolidated its first place position in the UK still water mark

      The company is currently owned by billionaire UAE businessman Mahdi Al Tajir.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Spring

    34. colin alexander says:

      I often drink bottled water. The water comes from Loch Katrine and is Scots owned (Scottish Water) and refills my empty bottles very nicely, thank you.

    35. Petra says:

      O/T

      The next time a Unionist makes a big deal of the Scottish economy just say to him …. ‘’why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?’’ ……… The Westminster £1.7 trillion plank, LOL!

      The following extracts have been taken from an interesting article (Realising the economic potential of the 99%) by Mike Danson Professor of Enterprise Policy at Heriot-Watt University.

      …………’’Some of the key economic indicators we can expect to hear about in the coming months will relate to the macro-economy – GDP, trade, debt, currency, North Sea oil revenues; and, to a lesser extent, there will be reference to effects on individual’s pensions and taxes, to jobs in specific firms, to passports and border controls. The former will depend upon, and create, the conditions for how well Scotland’s economy is performing overall.

      Unlike projections in 2014, though, the comparison cannot be between staying in the UK and being independent but rather between being in the UK after it has left the European Union and Single Market, and being independent. The uncertainty and risks involved in leaving ‘Europe’ mean a period of insecurity, job losses and falling incomes, with consequent and subsequent attacks on workers’ rights and further decline.

      The next few years promise a period of exaggerated austerity, an exacerbation of the uneven development of the British economy and no recovery or alternative economic strategy on the table from the British Government or Opposition. It is against those alternative futures that fearful projections of how Scotland would fare under independence should be judged, and these projections should not be extrapolations of Scotland in the UK based on unverifiable Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) or equivalent figures.

      To an extent, the failure of successive British governments to regenerate all regions after the deindustrialisation and financialisation of the economy is blatantly apparent in the recent GDP statistics. Despite the recent headlines of a lagging performance against Britain, the reality is Scottish GDP per capita lies only behind London and the South East of England within the UK, and if an independent Member State, it would be ranked ninth in the EU.

      Other official figures actually show Scotland’s aggregate economic performance – measured in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA) per head and unemployment, the attraction of inward investment and enterprise creation – continuing to be comparable with Britain and EU averages. Despite the adverse winds of change, therefore, and the reduction of activities in the North Sea oil sector especially, this suggests an economy which has demonstrated a capacity to recover better than most.

      Indeed, productivity in Scotland has now effectively caught up with the British average. In manufacturing, it is just above and in the rest of the economy fractionally below. Significantly, again only London and the South East achieve higher levels. The poor performances of the other regions of Britain reveal the underlying problems created by centralisation and concentration of power which generates further inequality – now the highest in the OECD – and ongoing underdevelopment; and within this environment, Scotland has managed to outperform everywhere but the greater south east……………..

      Is Scotland an outlier with regard to debt? Well debt – public and private – across Britain is about the worst in the world, and one measure – net government debt as a percentage of GDP – is higher than any of the Nordic countries and, apart from Iceland, they are actually in net credit. As with some other bad news regarding Scotland’s position, the parable, ‘And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?’, seems apposite.

      By comparing the calculated debt and deficit challenges facing Scotland with Britain’s, economic commentators are not standing back and asking what on earth is happening to Britain economy and how come our small, open economy neighbours are the most prosperous in the world and have managed their development so sustainably……’’

      http://www.scottishleftreview.org/article/realising-the-economic-potential-of-the-99/

    36. iain mhor says:

      I know the “Only 6 houses built by Labour” will keep cropping up.
      In the interests of accuracy This figure applies only to Local Authority builds and only to actual completions.
      There were a further 28 started in Q2 of 2006 but not completed until 2007 and some others started just prior to the 2007 election.
      Their overall record was truly abysmal over their tenure, but be fair and be accurate. The figures are all on the Scot Gov website in handy spreadsheets.

      https://goo.gl/iRzhfZ

      The 6 were in Shetland if anyone cares.

    37. donald anderson says:

      Some countries dinna have a Sunday Post. Jings, Crivvens and help ma boab.

    38. Ken500 says:

      150,000 households. Out of a population of 5,2Million? Relatively low. Possibily looking for alternative accommodation. (Larger – smaller).

      Gov building 6 thousand affordable homes. Private building 17 thousand+ Plus other property coming on the market. There will be enough properties built within 4 years. There will be surplus houses. Less homelessness. 6K + 17K = 23k + those that, come on the market. 1/2million deaths a year. (away to check that)

      Needed 30 thousand plus a year. Ie 150,000 divide by 5 = 30,000.

      There should be enough houses after two years but still need larger or smaller.

      Highland Spring owner. Exports to EU collapsing. Scottish water is good to drink from the tap. No plastic bottles.

      Homelessness is often caused by social problems. Lack of social support. Drink or drug addiction. Leading to chaotic lives. That is the main cause of homelessness. Total abstinence proper rehab counselling would be more cost effective to tackle homelessness. Minimum pricing. Last judgement in July. Scottish Court. Has to agree under Scotish Law past from the London Court to decide. Scottish Law.

      The unionist councils are now responsible for drug/drink addiction facilities. Social care. As usual they are found wanting. Some preferring to fund other projects instead of ‘one chance’ total abstinence rehab. Less costly than prison. Years on methadone and earlier death. Just as bad as heroin. Most violent crimes, road accidents are committed while people (mainly male) are under the influence of drink/drug.

      Pauline McNeil knows all this but is constantly bringing untruths trying to damage the SNP Gov. Creatng negative soundbites. To try and damage the best (SNP) Gov Scotland has ever had. McNeil is misguided. She should stop being so useless.

      Any houses the SNP Gov build are more than the unionists/Labour. They built none ever. Since 2000.

    39. Ken500 says:

      Breath easy. Knew that looked wrong.

      55,000 deaths a year (average). How many homes come vacant? 1/3? 17,000,

      6 + 17,+ 17 = 30,000 . Just what’s needed.

      Homelessness is caused by many reasons. Divorce, death, trauma, illness mental health problems, addiction, poverty. People not coping.

    40. Scott says:

      Nicola Sturgeon faces call to sue over Tory-DUP deal that disadvantages Scotland.

      Labour has said that there should be £1.67bn for Wales if the money was spread out proportionally.

      Neil said: “To sue them for the £2.9bn, even if it’s not successful, would show how rotten this deal is for Scotland and how the Tories have sold us down the river.

      Having seen this in the SH could Lab put aside their hatred of the SNP and get together and sue.

    41. Legerwood says:

      The Highland Spring business leader story is also on STV News Facebook site.

      It is possible the Highland Spring boss is trying to burnish his pro-Union credentials ahead of an imminent visit from HM the Queen who is going to open a new extension at the Highland Spring plant in Blackford.

      On the subject of houses, in a recent CH4 News discussion during the height of the Grenfell Tower story it was stated that the Tory Government built 1000 council houses in England last year.

    42. scottieDog says:

      Well I’d be bigging up the environmental benefits of improving existing housing stock.
      Of course the paper won’t focus on that.

    43. Scott says:

      Les Montgomery, chief executive of bottled water firm Highland Spring, told the Press Association the Scottish Government should be helping the Conservatives to achieve the best possible Brexit outcome.

      Highland Spring owner Mahdi al-Tajir ‘richest man in Scotland’

      Is Montgomery just spouting his own line and where do the profits go from this company do Scotland get any Tax revenue.

    44. Robert Graham says:

      I give up the sheer bloody pettiness of people in this country at times is beyond f/kn belief ,nit picking r/us .
      It becomes apparent when you arrive back here from abroad after listening to other points of view ,the total disbelief i heard from relations in America that we bottled it in 2014 , their can Do , will Do , attitude would be lost on most of the grumpy short sighted bloody professional moaners , who are thick on the ground as well as thick in the bloody head .
      I wonder how Nicola has the will and the energy to carry on when she is surrounded by bone headed proud scots whos day wouldn’t be made until they have had a good bloody gripe and moan .

    45. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Graham
      It’s a puzzler. But the base of it really is propoganda. The Herald / Sunday Herald for instance is delighted to carry this mean-minded shite, whereas it says fuck all about the unfolding saga of the Type 26 and now Type 31 betrayal.

      It’s a constant drip drip drip from people who are drips themselves.

    46. scottieDog says:

      @Petra
      Ref the danson paper, I read it with interest.
      I’d go a bit further and say that Scotland IS the wealthiest part of the UK.

      I’m pretty sure that banking is counted as a contributing element in GDP. The fact of the matter is that banking is an overhead and actually has a negative effect on GDP. Only approx 8% of bank loans are productive (business lending), the rest being mostly speculative.
      Interesting interview with richard werner here about the ‘contribution’ of banks..
      https://www.ianfraser.org/15200-2/

      Money isn’t mined anymore (all currency is fiat and created by accounting entry ).
      Banks create most of our money supply now as debt.
      The REAL wealth of an economy is in energy and resources.

      We have to make people realise this.

    47. yesindyref2 says:

      Reference the Herald and Sunday Herald, most comments I make these days are critical of the headline, the article itself and the way it’s written – and the absence of coverage of “good news” for Scotland, Indy and even the SNP.

      It wasn’t so in Indy Ref 1 I addressed the points and “refuted” them.

      The good news is that Unionsts too are becoming increasingly fed up with the poor quality of the paper. Serious discussion is pointless there, and the “journalists” only interest is to produce an article, any article, a few thousands electrons buzzing around an inefficiently designed webpage, a few tawdry words in ink on some scruffy paper.

      It’s dying on its feet and whereas even a year ago I would have been sad with the once-proud reputation of the Glasgow Herald and then the Herald, recommending it to the kids for close reading practice, now it’s worth nothing, no interesting coverage of a topic, no sensible dicussion of topics of interest except by the very few like Maurice Smith.

      It’s no longer my first “go-to” to see how the media is covering issues, even the BBC is better. And the Scotsman!

      Well, yo ho yo ho, it’s off to work I go.

    48. Robert Graham says:

      yesindyref2- @ 5.21 Agreed the Unionist Media is all thats keeping them afloat , take that away and it will begin to crumble , but given that people have the free will to disregard this pish , are they all so bloody thick and lazy that they just sit and absorb this daily rubbish , How to waken these people up when probably in the end they dont care enough to want to listen .It’s like talking to a wall sometimes , Tragic .

    49. Petra says:

      O/T

      Really interesting piece from Elliot Bulmer, former Research Director of the Constitutional Commission (now helps countries go through constitutional change), on the need for a Scottish constitution, which he says would help us to achieve our Independence.

      It’s 24 minutes long however key points are from 11.00 minutes in.

      http://newsnet.scot/archive/podcast-elliot-bulmer-need-scots-constitution/

    50. Malcolm Pate says:

      Just watched the Jamie Hepburn interview with Gordon Brewer.
      I get the feeling we are too nice with these Interviewers. Its time we told them we are only living on the pocket money that Westminster gives us. We need someone in our Government to find out how much money is going to London and how much is coming back. This can be broken up into different headinds EG fishing, oil, whiskey, farming etc and can be shown on graghs if necessary. Then we we can show the ordinary people in Scotland how much WE are subsidising England. Then when we have someone getting interviewed by Brewer and co. we can tell them why our growth is not going up. Give us control over our own finances and then they will see how our growth will be rising.
      PS I dont think Mr Hepburn done too bad as I was expecting Lambs to the Slaughter when I saw the gross exaggeration on the You tube heading (train smash)

    51. HandandShrimp says:

      If you are looking for a home, it is unlikely to be of much concern whether the home is a new build or a refurbished one. As long as it is clean, fresh, watertight and has all mod cons it will be home to someone.

      I think this really does fall into the fake news category. In order to refurbish you need builders. If the builders are in then they are building. It is semantics indeed to insist that the 50,000 have to be green field start from scratch. It is also a rather wasteful approach. If the housing stock is increased by 50,000 with good quality affordable homes by 2021 then the SNP will have done a good thing.

      Of course the Tories might sniff at spending money to refurbish older empty properties. They don’t believe in homes being habitable for the plebs – they would just coat the building in match heads and shove 10 people to a room in them.

    52. gerry parker says:

      Legerwood,
      I wonder if they’re going to call the extension ” Elizabeth 2’s water works.

    53. John Walsh says:

      Been in housing/ property for over 25 years and Stu is correct “build” can be refurbished or new.
      Also often wondered why Local Authorities do buy up more EX LA houses cheaper than new build and normally in established estates. So school and amenities in situ. Also inner city redevelopment of old buildings ( private sector partnerships) and use of brownfield sites saves green belt land and helps the regeneration of inner cities.
      So 10k homes per year however achieved by 2021 is good news .
      We know Slab don’t do good news and they ALWAYS use Jackie Baillie’s abacus for big sums.

    54. Derick far Yell says:

      Would that be the Highland Spring that has effectively cleared farming from the west side of the Ochils?

    55. Macart says:

      You wonder sometimes just what they think they are achieving? Clearly the media and political opposition have political and corporate aims (duh). But as people, as human beings, just what do they think the outcome of treating people like this will be?

      Misleading, outright deception, smearing, demonising, misrepresenting on a daily basis. The newsprint industry has fallen off a cliff. Trust in our media is at an ALL TIME low and possibly never to recover. Those sales and that readership won’t come back if they simply shout yet more of the same at their readerships ever louder.

      The link between their demise and their individual editorial stances is no accident. Newsprint was always going to become redundant as the change in society and technology advanced, but the increased pace of this decline in Scotland is no accident.

      It didn’t have to be this way, but their choice… etc.

    56. Petra says:

      @ scottieDog says at 5:31 pm …. ”Petra, Ref the danson paper, I read it with interest. I’d go a bit further and say that Scotland IS the wealthiest part of the UK…. The REAL wealth of an economy is in energy and resources. We have to make people realise this.”

      I agree with you ScottieDog however we’re back to the problem of getting the word out there. We’re faced with the MSM overtly out and out lying, covertly lying through omission and cherry-picking information. Never a mention of anything positive happening here. Every night on the news the usual doom and gloom. They want the Scots to feel beholden to Westminster / the English by portraying this country as being a good for nothing basket case.

      Not for much longer, thank God. And thanks to Stu too X.

    57. Legerwood says:

      gerry parker says:
      2 July, 2017 at 5:48 pm
      Legerwood,
      “”I wonder if they’re going to call the extension ” Elizabeth 2’s water works.””
      ………….

      I don’t know about that but water seems to be playing a prominent role in her visit to Scotland this time. She is going to open a new, helf-mile long canal at the Helix Park in Falkirk. The canal will be the Queen Elizabeth II Canal apparently.

    58. geeo says:

      On the Jamie Hepburn interview, i was also screaming “fiscal levers are fucking reserved” at the telly.

      If a common garden Scotsman like me can see what needs thrown at fannies like Brewer, how can those representing me not see it ?

      It is a tad fustrating.

    59. Capella says:

      Derick fae Yell
      They also produce quality beef from a farm nesr Dunblane and so scoop large subsidies. The National has the story:

      Highland Wagyu is a beef farm owned by the son of billionaire and former UAE ambassador to the UK Mahdi Al-Tajir, owner of Highland Spring. The beef sells at up to £250 per kg and has been used by Michelin star chefs such as Tom Kitchin. The 25,000 acre farm’s website states that “we pamper our Wagyu cattle” in “zen-like buildings” and that they hope soon to have 5000 heads of beef.

      http://archive.is/2S2qC

    60. Dan Huil says:

      It seems Westminster has upset the Irish government over this fishing business. Westminster has an unerring ability to make enemies. Brexit is definitely going to be “hard”. Indyref2 definitely on.

      [Another dead deadline tomorrow in Stormont?]

    61. Meg merrilees says:

      Liz g.

      Sainsbury’s Scottish bottled water comes form the Campsie Fells/Fintry Hills only the other side of the carse from non-highland Spring.

      Derek fra Yell

      It’s disgraceful that all those farms in the ‘catchment area’ of Highland Springs have had a modern day clearance. Can’t possibly be allowed to farm there in case there is contamination of the supplies – obviously not being taken from a great depth then!

      What about pollution from traffic coming and going along the A9?

      The Baxter’s cafe was a really good cafe/meeting place on a road that has a dearth of stopping places.

      There is talk of the land west of the main road being used for another golf course running up to Glen Eagles.
      And some of the properties on the Stirling of Keir and Lanrick Castle estates are being allowed to collapse including a stunning stable block. Tragedy.

      They would collectively provide beautiful, much needed rural housing.

    62. auld highlander says:

      O/T

      from the Independent,

      “Theresa May blew £20,000 on RAF plane to fly Arlene Foster home to Belfast
      Tories left to foot the bill because it would breach anti-corruption rules”

      Digging her grave deeper by the day she is.

    63. Artyhetty says:

      The lies on the front pages are all they need, relying on people not reading any further and the weekend rags are the ones that are recycled most, literally.

      Re; Mike d @3.12

      Highland spring is water taken from our hills, and aquifers then sold back to us, and certainly not Scottish owned. Avoid buying bottled water at all, but worth looking at who ‘owns’ the rights to our water, to sell it back to us in plastic bottles.

      Listening to Dougie Maclean and Dick Gaughan today, etc, loudly, neighbours tearing out more old lovely bushes down, yoons, not fans o nature. They would see the whole world paved over.

      Music has power, time we had a big (free?)concert to remind people that Scotland does not bow down to the unionists, the money men, but holds up her/his head and rejects the destruction of our land, our water, our country, our people.

    64. Meg merrilees says:

      New extension at Blackford for H Spring cost £16million and includes a new railway siding which will allow 60 lorry loads of product to travel by rail instead of by road.

      Like the idea of a big concert for indy!

    65. Phil says:

      Pure, clear, tasty and Scottish; anyone who wishes a drink, or to fill their bottle is welcome to partake of our borehole water from 75m below.

      No more Highland Spring for us.

    66. Ken MacColl says:

      Watched the Politics Show with my usual lack of enthusiasm. Every low expectation is fulfilled but while BBC Scotland is enthusiastic about any critical comment about the Scottish Government it is curiously reluctant to entertain any adverse comment, however slight, about itself. Your correspondents above highlight the usual caveats but I find the most depressing comment was Brewer sighing off with, ” I’ll be back next week” and, sadly, that is no doubt true

    67. Dan Huil says:

      No apologies for saying this again: don’t pay the bbc tax. It’s the only thing these bbc britnats will understand.

    68. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      If you must drink pre-bottled water, why not try this Scottish-owned product?

      “Strathmore Spring Water is pure, clear spring water created by nature in a 50 year filtration process through the sandstone layers of the Vale of Strathmore where it is drawn by us from an aquifer deep underground.

      Strathmore Twist is a range of waters with a hint of natural flavours for people who like a little more from their water!

      Strathmore Spring Water is available in a variety of different flavours & pack sizes.

      Bottled at source in the Vale of Strathmore near Glamis Castle in Scotland.”

      http://www.agbarr.co.uk/our-brands/strathmore/

      My own drinking water comes off the Angus hills and is routed via Backwater Reservoir.

      “The reservoir’s only purpose is to provide drinking water, and as such, it supplies Angus, Dundee, and parts of Perth?and?Kinross. Backwater, together with the smaller Lintrathen Reservoir 4 kilometres to the south, is capable of supplying some 300,000 people with drinking water.”

      https://wiki2.org/en/Backwater_Reservoir

    69. Fiona Laing says:

      Re Highland Spring boss telling Nicola to work with the Tories in Westminster to get the best deal possible from Brexit- she’s been trying – the Tories aren’t listening, indeed they are ignoring every devolved administration.

      NO JMC meeting since February(the meeting of Westminster and the devolved administrations) with none planned

      A very detailed report “Scotland’s Place in Europe” published in December outlining ways for Scotland to stay in the single market IGNORED, despite it being widely accepted as being a very good piece of constructive work.

      Scottish Government finding out what’s happening re Brexit negotiations from the media.

      Just what is Nicola supposed to do-the views of the Scottish government and therefore Scotland are being ignored and we are left in the dark.

      Yet another example of the media giving a spin to an SNP bad, indeed Scotland Bad, story where even the simplest of investigations would show that they are doing exactly what the businessman wants- it’s Westminster that’s the problem.

    70. Breeks says:

      Had a wee thought about the BBC and the protests at Pacific Quay.

      Maybe a protest in Glasgow at the BBC would find more purchase as a rally outside the Scottish Parliament. We’re protesting to the wrong people, the culprits who couldn’t care less. Let’s “protest” instead before a sympathetic Scottish Government, and impress on them that something needs to be done. No disruption to ordinary business, but a constructive pressure group. Not anti BBC, but pro Scottish Free Broadcasting.

      Let’s just excommunicate the BBC and lobby our parliament for something better.

    71. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Breeks at 7.43

      The only protest worthwhile would be outside the BBC in London with the whole world watching.

    72. Breeks says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      2 July, 2017 at 7:50 pm
      Breeks at 7.43

      “The only protest worthwhile would be outside the BBC in London with the whole world watching….”

      Only if the objective is to amend the BBC.

      Hell mend the BBC. Lobby for a progressive alternative to the right people who want to listen. Fixing the BBC will just produce another shitty vehicle for Sarah Smith or some other Unionist mouthpiece to distort the issues and let the BBC off the hook. Let them waste their own time.

      Let’s lobby for a fresh and original alternative; true Independent broadcasting with Scottish DNA, (if you’ll pardon the eugenic overtone).

      If we can bring pressure to bear on Westminster from Scotland through Holyrood, and engineer some coordinated pressure to come from Europe and Michel Barnier, then tighten the vice on the BBC, and we might get at least a digital channel for Scotland in time to broaden and deepen the IndyRef2 narrative.

      We are protesting with our hearts. Let’s get smart and start progressive intelligent protesting using our heads. (And that doesn’t mean the protests have been daft, I just mean to sharpen up the strategic objectives).

    73. Iain says:

      The SNP is a rich party supported by 50% of the population of Scotland.
      Surely it is not beyond us to support a freeveiw channel.
      If the Yoon media blocked us take them to the UN.
      What have we got to lose.

    74. Iain says:

      I of course ment freeview.

    75. Robbo says:

      Well fuck Highland Spring. I’ve just emptied their water down the sink and filled it with tap water. For all we know its fecking tap water anyhow.

      I’ll never buy another pack- hearing that Highland Spring???? See if the fecking OO will buy yir shite-feck off!

    76. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      O/T – if you missed Outlander on Thursday, it’s on again at 10.05pm tonight, on More 4.

    77. Street Andrew says:

      Sunday Post? A mythical creature that didn’t exist even before the Royal Mail was privatised.

      Do people pay money to read garbage like this? You’ll be telling me next that people are willing to pay to have television companies pump effluent into their homes.

      Silly season indeed.

    78. scottieDog says:

      @petra
      Thanks for the podcast link re a constitution.
      I think this is very important and we should be addressing it right now.

    79. cearc says:

      Meg Merrilees, Liz G,

      The Campsie water, as sold in Sainsburys, is collected and bottled at a plant in Lennoxtown. The company decided to operate without a brand name after seeing the Perrier problem.

      It was recently sold to Highland Spring.

    80. Robert Louis says:

      Highland Spring – toilet water. Funny how these folks come up to Scotland and anjoy our wonderful land and hospitaltiy, then have the bl**dy arrogance to tell OUR elected leaders that they should bow down to English rule. If you don’t like it here, you know what you can do.

      Highland Spring and its NON Scottish owner, can just f**** right off.

      They like to USE (and I do mean USE) our country, but want us still kept as a pet colony of England.

      From now on, if I am in a shop, and somebody looks like picking up a bottle of highland spring, I’ll just let them know that ‘That stuff has a bad reputation’. Best get a proper Scottish water, like Strathmore.

      You know, some folks say things like this are not important, and in some ways they are right. But combined together, all these wee ‘things’ add up, like union jacks on Scottish produce, or the word ‘British’ added to Scottish things – the classic being Sainsburys “british’ Scotch Broth (FFS!) and I like most on here, am mightily sick and tired of people coming up to Scotland from somewhere else to tell us HOW our country should be run.

      I always say it, but it is true, other countries like Germany or France would not put up with ANY of this kind of rubbish for one second, not one. Is it not time we started to get a bit angry. Seriously. Food companies that add union jacks to Scottish produce should be made to apologise and told never to do it again. These people KNOW they are insulting our country, but don’t care. In short, it is about time, we stopped being so damn nice.

    81. Sarah says:

      @Breeks re independent broadcasting service

      Wee Ginger Dug’s post today “Believe. Act. Become” says eloquently that if we believe in something we should do it and then it will be achieved and he cites the example of our lack of an independent broadcasting service. Don’t ask Westminster’s permission, just do it. I agree with him that the UN would not allow UK to deny us the right.

      I have mentioned such an approach to my MP. I think it might get traction if we all wrote or had a petition, as you suggested, Breeks. And a protest idc at Holyrood.

    82. twathater says:

      Breeks 9.25 pm
      Breeks i am getting sick of agreeing with you but once again I have to say GOOD idea , not only would it show the SNP SG that we Scots are sick to the back teeth of being denigrated and lied to by these wastemonster ar**wipe churnilists ,and that there is a desperate need for a broadcast facility to ENLIGHTEN and educate the people of Scotland as to what is happening re the deliberate lies and misinformation being peddled by these tractors . It would also be beneficial for the SNP SG to highlight the good governance that we currently have ( excluding the unionist parasitical parties )

    83. stewartb says:

      Just used Highland Sping’s online contact facility (http://highlandspring.com/contact/ ) to inform them of one lost customer because of its CEO’s statements which misrepresent the SG’s role and efforts. At least one or two staff members will read the message and may get the point!

    84. Street Andrew says:

      Scottie dog. I think I’m right in saying that the way fiat currency works it doesn’t exist at all except in the form of debt.

      Banking is a bit weird in accounting terms because if you give/lend them your money that isn’t a bank asset it’s a liability. If they give/lend money to you that is counted as a bank asset.

      This does my head in because if the regulators demand that the banks have to increase their cash holdings (as they did just the other week) following the above logic that means the banks have a higher level of liability yet that is supposed to make them ‘safer’.

      Small wonder the financial and economic state of the world is a mess.

      On the subject of currency it is rumoured that the Scottish Torie MPs are not just doing nothing in WM they are actually very busy. Unimpressed by the new smaller plastic fiver which puts them in mind of the Bronco rolls at the ‘better’ public schools,
      Tory members have demanded the return of the white fiver. They insist this should be three ply and quilted. Tory MPs are expected to table a motion in the house any day now.

    85. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      If you haven’y heard this already

      twitter.com/NickKehoe007/status/880682219915927553

    86. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      If you haven’t heard this already

      twitter.com/NickKehoe007/status/880682219915927553

    87. Gary45% says:

      GUTTER PRESS, who cares???
      The only good thing about the Sunday Shit is the cartoon page looks like a Yoon convention. “The Yoons” and OOR Wullie “What’s the Point”???

    88. Street Andrew says:

      Robert Louis.

      re product boycotts. They aren’t little things. How you spend your money is the way you vote, day in and day out between elections.

      If nobody (or indeed significantly fewer people) bought Highland Spring water the company would be out of business. It really is that simple.

      If we don’t like a company’s ethos we can starve them of our cash. Much more effective than waving banners. I have operated boycotts for years. I stopped shopping in Tesco after the ‘Homes for Votes’ scandal and it’s become a habit. I never buy Californian wine and I can’t even remember why now, but it still seems to make sense. I stopped buying French wine when they did their last Nuclear test in the Southern ocean (because it was said that Britain was sharing the test results I don’t buy British wine either – great hardship, I know!, but you’ve got to be consistent)

      I can’t personally boycott Highland Spring because I just don’t see the point of buying bottled water. Some of it is more expensive than petrol FFS!

    89. Connor McEwen says:

      A lot of posters on WINGS. should print, PRINT, some of their salient points and stick them on the farm gates and care homes doors in Orkney, Banff, and Aberdeen. Oh aye and the Range Rover car doors, in Ayrshire fur instance. Tanked up with bull Corp.T-Ruth-less-13 MP’s lies outed in the fields of la-la-Tory land

    90. Gary45% says:

      Highland Spring!! the water in the Hillfoots and Alloa tastes better out the tap.

    91. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I’ve posted this before but with the topic being “The Sunday Post” and The Broons being mentioned in passing, this quote bears a repeat…


      A member of Groucho’s staff found the following note attached to the toilet door at a Sepultura gig at Q.M.U. in Glasgow –
      ‘If I were Paw Broon I’d be suspicious of the fact that none of my children look like me or each other (except the twins of course, whose resemblance to Oor Wullie demands an explanation from Maw Broon)’.”

      That’s from:-
      http://www.grouchos.co.uk/Dinna-ask.html

      And, BTW, I watched both series of Outlander over the past 15 months or so and rewatched episode 1 tonight. I found it disconcerting that so much in episode 1 had not transferred to my long term memory.

      I think I’m gonna have to rewatch the whole lot to pick up on the salient stuff. Bummer! (Must be an age thing…)

    92. Phronesis says:

      The interconnectedness of big policy and real life events.Scotland is not trying to go over this particular cliff edge-the privatisation of NHS England;

      ‘…It started to speed up in 2013 when the Health & Social Care Act went live. Between April 2013 and early 2016, £16 billion of NHS clinical contracts were awarded through the market (411 contracts). The private sector won nearly £5.5 billion worth, roughly one–third. In 2015–2016, the private sector won £2.1 billion worth of contracts, the NHS £2.7 billion. Around half of all serving contracts in the NHS now go to private companies. The government claims only 7% of the NHS is in private hands. However, if this present trend continues, 25% of our NHS could be privately run by 2020…
      When it comes to profit, the biggest rip–off of the NHS by banks, hedge funds and corporations is PFI. This happens when a consortium of banks and construction firms finance construction of a hospital, then own it and lease it back to the particular hospital trust over a period of 30–35 years. During this period they have a monopoly right to also charge for maintenance and services. The average profit for banks in PFI projects is over 50%. A shell company, referred to as Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) is created to funnel profits to all the private investors involved. It’s a massive ripoff and it’s putting hospitals in debt’

      https://weownit.org.uk/act-now/dont-sell-nhs-professionals

      The effects on real lives -young and old- why does anyone keep voting for this?

      ‘Just as infant mortality is higher in more unequal countries…so too is elderly mortality. Between 2011 and 2016 NHS trust funding was increased by 11 per cent, not enough to keep up with demand, including the modest ageing that had taken place up to then. Spending on adult social care fell by 10 per cent over the same period. Delays to discharges from hospitals increased by 37 per cent in just the two years prior to 2016.4 The only plausible cause of the unprecedented rises in deaths among the elderly that occurred in 2015 (which have risen again in late 2016 and early 2017) was this limited and reduced funding. At the same time corporation tax has been cut to ‘by far the lowest in the G7 group of leading economies’; costing the government £8 billion a year by 2016-17 and rising – up from £5 billion a year in 2014.
      Because the 1 per cent in the UK now take more than in any other European country and appear to pay the least in tax, they have money to squander. The profligacy of the wealthy is something we have become too used to in the UK…

      In Europe Britain is uniquely tolerant of inequality. No other large European country taxes the rich so little and lets them take so much at the expense of the rest, and especially of the poor. And no other large European country spends so little on health or is seeing life expectancy begin to fall for the majority of its population…
      Fighting for greater equality is the fight for life, the fight against fascism, and the fight against greed’

      https://www.lwbooks.co.uk/renewal/25-2/income-inequality

      It’s clear that Scotland and England are being denied some of the bounty from the Con-DUP magic money tree. The SNP should become even more radical in the short term until Scotland becomes (inevitably) independent and grow their own magic money tree ;

      An annual ground rent will plug some of the economic gaps that the HM Treasury hasn’t a clue about in Scotland and has many wins e.g. reduced unemployment,increased wages and supply of work, avoids boom and bust economic cycles, decreases social dislocation, increases GDP.

      ‘Deadweight taxes reduce the size of Scotland’s economy by at least £1 for each £1 raised. They impose losses on Scotland of at least £36bn a year. Replacing them with AGR (Annual Ground Rent) would release us from the economic straitjacket that starves public services. Devolved powers allow Holyrood to start work immediately…
      HM Treasury is in no position to criticise the estimates of others because, by its own admission, it does not measure the excess burden of its tax tools. It lacks the authority, therefore, to assess other people’s estimates’

      http://slrg.scot/scotlands-deadweight-losses-briefing-by-economist-fred-harrison/

      It also addresses complex housing issues;

      http://slrg.scot/collect-agr-to-end-the-housing-crisis/

    93. Cactus says:

      Keep a keen firm eye fixed on the fragrant Sunday Post…

      Look out for The Brown’s & Our William next!

      Follow the money tree brick road.

      LSX.

    94. Meg merrilees says:

      Cactus:

      I’ll be really worried if they start calling him “Oor Billie’ and he gets a flute for Christmas!

    95. Cactus says:

      Hey Meg ~

      Aye, they might try a story like that. An Boab bangs the drum.

      Then swap Wullie’s bucket furra throne.

      In dangerous times we live.

    96. Petra says:

      @ ScottieDog at 9:30pm ….. “Written Constitution …. addressing it right now” Spot on ScottieDog. The podcast piece was really informative and helpful, imo, especially in relation to reassuring potential No voters. Well worth everyone taking the time to listen to it. Hopefully the SNP are on top of this but whatever the case I’ll be submitting it to the mobilise.scot site anyway.

      @ Chic …. And on that subject Chic you came up with a great ‘communication’ idea recently but I can’t find it now. I hope you submitted it to mobilise.scot.

      @ Robert Louis at 9:40pm ……… Good post Robert. I’m sick and tired of ‘newcomers’ ruling the roost up here too. Sick and tired of practically everyone on STV news broadcasts having non-Scottish accents to the point that you wonder if there are any Scots still living here. Then again is it a ploy to ‘desensitise’ us all? Be more accepting of the fact that we are being colonised …. BIG TIME.

      I hear people saying that the SNP are “too nice” but many of us are too. Or in some cases downright lazy. When you go shopping buy Scottish brands. If there aren’t any demand to know why. If Scottish products are covered by the UJ / British labels complain. If your local store / supermarket doesn’t sell the National email them and ask why / say you’ll start shopping elsewhere. Like stewartb at 10:14pm. Every time you plan to spend as much as a penny check out who your money is going to.

      When the BBC, STV, newspapers lie …. complain. If they don’t mention positive news that we can find online list the latest news items and ask them what the hell is going on. Why are they not informing the Scots? If you don’t already do so choose one / two newspapers and start posting facts. The Scots have waited for over 300 years now to regain their Independence. The stories of the suffering they experienced in trying to do so would break your heart. It’s now within our reach. Don’t falter at the last hurdle. Many of us are tired I know but it won’t be long now. Pull yourself together and give it 100%.

      @ Iain at 8:43pm says …. “The SNP are a rich party.” They’re not really Iain. The Tories, in particular, and Labour get support from very wealthy donors and of course in Labour’s case the Unions too. Then there’s the dark money coming from US / Saudi billionaires etc. The SNP are practically totally reliant on US. That’s why people who really want Independence should join the party and donate whatever they can. Rising membership numbers also sends out a clear message to the Unionists.

      @ Breeks at 8:32pm …. “Lobby for Independent broadcasting.” Great idea Breeks. Let’s get pro-active and start acting like an Independent country. We could protest outside Holyrood. We could also initiate a petition which would include more information. Weegingerdug (and Stu) could really help out there. I remember reading one of his articles where he listed countries that had more autonomy than Scotland and control over broadcasting. Facts like that would be ideal for including in a petition. Enlighten the unenlightened. A petition that we could run on here, Twitter, Facebook etc.

    97. Petra says:

      Just carrying out a last check on here and see that even more constructive suggestions have been made. Brilliant.

      And Phronesis at 11:35pm. A great informative post. Thanks for the data. One for my little (biggish, lol) archive.

      @ Westminster. I see that sneaky wee Gove is at it again. This time in relation to the employment cap. It’s clear that he’s after May’s job.

    98. Meg merrilees says:

      Cactus

      D’ye no think the twins will look braw in orange jerseys knitted by Maw Broon and Granpa Broon can replace his bunnet wi a bowler. An Paw Broon’s jaiket is cryin’ oot fur a sash..

      Thank goodness the OO didna reach Dundee ( or did it?).

    99. Meg merrilees says:

      I don’t trust Michael Gove one bit – even at the end of a bargepole.

      Haven’t the tories just voted, in Parliament last week, to continue the pay cap for public sector workers?
      Why, they all laughed and cheered at the success of their decision.

      Now they wan’t to pretend that they have a conscience and they will reconsider- the civic unrest just isn’t worth it, is it guys?

      T May is finished, in the death throes now – she’ll be gone by Autumn.

    100. crazycat says:

      @ Meg merrilees

      There’s at least 4 of them at it – Johnson, Gove, Hunt and Greening – according to the Guardian, who add:

      It is fresh evidence that collective cabinet responsibility, which usually keeps major disagreements between senior ministers behind closed doors, has all but collapsed since the Conservatives’ majority was wiped out in last month’s general election.

    101. auld highlander says:

      Seemingly Mayhem was crawling on her weak and wobbly knees to Cameron begging for his support re the dup/tory deal.

    102. Cactus says:

      Aye Meg, time will tell. SO long as they don’t alter Hen Broons first name.

      Then agains, mibbies DC Thomson are ‘independent’ fae ra Post?

      Long live the Kingdom of Scotland and all who be.

      Build and refurbish to new bridges.

    103. Scottish Steve says:

      The media and opposition’s obsession with SNP Bad and trying to make out any story as a “crisis” or using any feeble excuse to paint the Scottish Government in a bad light is really unhealthy. It seems more like a mental illness than holding the government to account.

      I do actually think some of these people are not firing on all cylinders. I think the Scottish Government might have the most hostile press in Europe. The Tories down south get nowhere near this amount of constant, desperate and pathetic attacks. If anything, the British media is so far up the arse of the UK Government that they are emerging from its mouth.

    104. Liz g says:

      From Capella @ 4.16 till now
      Re the Highland Spring water discussion.Sorry was away and just catching up..wow are we angry.

      I think the anger might be because this person didn’t make or cause his companies product to be there but…. invited to explore and it has to be said exploit a natural Scottish resource
      …tis a bit much to then try to be all Coalminers Dauxx sorry…..Mine owner’s entitlement towards the population.

      How dare he tell an electorate how to Vote.
      He is charged with making a profit…..not deciding how this country should have organised it’s self politically!

      Sadly not the first Company who thinks it can direct it’s workers and their dependents votes.
      Labour ofcourse are espically aware of this “kind of thing”and they will act….or so I understand?…em.. they will.. won’t they???

      Anyhoo Petra’s link about the Constitution…And the conversation around it ..are/is I think…..so very important.
      Actually believe it or not, it’s something like that I am trying to write for the suggestions on the new web site.

      Not just because I think our Constitution will work if everyone feels they have an input.
      But that we must not let those who would put themselves forward as representatives of civic Scotland… create a mini me Westminster.
      Otherwise what’s the point!

      And as for the marches of by gone days of yore….
      Just like those who shall NEVER, NEVER, NEVER..be named.
      If they want to ensure their right to march….do like that man had to…..and get in the negotiations.
      Cause the Scottish Constitution Consultation is happening.
      So if you want the right to march start making yer case!!

      We must I think frame a Constitution and show all Scots not only ….here is what you can have…..but also that….we don’t have to take this Westminster shit anymore!
      Sorry this post is over long…but everyone said such great things and I am sure I have missed some..
      What can I say….BDTT said Jamie Fraiser was on the telly..so my confusion should be perfectly understandable..

    105. Cactus says:

      Aweright and the excellent point you make Breeks about Scotlands basic right to broadcast, apolitically. That is something we need to happen. All agreed.

      If Wayne & Garth can bring us Wayne’s World via a sattelite link up (Cable 10).

      All we need is a van, a dish and an..

      EXTREME CLOSE-UP!

    106. Ghillie says:

      No more ‘NOT Highland Highland Spring’.

      Am really fond of fizzy water so STRATHMORE or shops’ own brands from now on and lovely fresh SCOTTISH TAP water !!

      Can not imagine the wealthy owner will be happy about his product manager making political statements that could lose Not Highland Highland Spring half their sales in Scotland and even abroad. Glad I’m not in his shoes.

    107. Ghillie says:

      As for the Sunday Post. Macart @ 6.05 pm Spot on.

      What many many years ago seemed like a cosy couthy read for my older aunties on a Sunday afternoon is now a horrid spiteful wee rag and dishonest to boot.

      Not only have they dug their grave and fashioned their own coffin, they seem intent on flinging themselves six feet under ahead of shedule.

      Well done Rev Stu. Good to hear an accurate take on our Government’s efforts to get houses built and refurbished for folk who need homes = )

    108. Ghillie says:

      Sooo many excellent posts on here tonight ! You know who you are = )

      Breeks and Dave McEwan Hill, couldn’t we have simultanious protests at Pacific Quay and our Parliament?

      There’s a BBC building in Inverness too, just up from the castle. Make our protest felt there too.

      Come at the BBBC from the West and the East and North. Outflank them. Surround them.

      Yes, Scotland should have an apolitical broadcaster. As well as the excellent Indy sites we have going for us already 🙂

      Hey there Meg and Cactus, THEY had better keep their mitts off oor Broons. THAT would be a step toooo far !!

    109. Cactus says:

      Mon the Broon’s!
      Mon the Wullie!

      Welcome forward tae Monday.

      Mon Scotland!

    110. Az says:

      You guys rock!!! What a thread!!!

    111. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning, Az;

      ZHU:”In the Morning”
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_ARibfCMhw&ab_channel=ZHUVEVO

      Peace Always

    112. justin fn minty says:

      Just fit a water filter to your cold water tap with a 2 way valve that takes out the chlorine and lead,works out cheaper and you don’t have plastic bottles going to land fill nor road miles in transportation and also tastes better

    113. scottieDog says:

      Scotland shull be preparing for independence now. Looking at the cuts coming down the line by 2020 we should start implementation of a currency now in parallel with sterling..

      http://neweconomics.org/2015/09/scotpound-digital-currency-for-the-common-good/

    114. Petra says:

      @ scottieDog says at 6:18 am …. ”Scotland shull be preparing for independence now. Looking at the cuts coming down the line by 2020 we should start implementation of a currency now in parallel with sterling.”

      http://neweconomics.org/2015/09/scotpound-digital-currency-for-the-common-good/

      That’s the way to go scottieDog, worldwide, and just in time for an Independent Scotland. It’s all falling into place now.

      …………………………………..

      A light hearted article on Lord Cocky of Smugton……

      http://newsnet.scot/archive/brexit-last-governments-brilliant-hand-revealed/

    115. Muscleguy says:

      Here in Dundee a lot of the old Jute mills and associated buildings have been pressed into use as Housing Corporation flats. Nice places, concierge service, carpeted hallways, often gorgeous views over the Tay on offer. We got into a few to campaign in the last IndyRef.

      Being affordable housing but not entirely built but new housing. One of the last such buildings is currently being refitted as housing. It looms over the inner city with a tower on it. A lot of flats will have stunning views, including the new V&A building on the waterfront.

      Where three unloved multis once stood up the hill (they brought them down with a syncopated beat) new affordable town houses rise. Not sure if these are Dundee Council or Housing Corp but the point is they are new social housing.

      And with the sale of council houses now banned in Scotland the numbers can only continue to rise.

    116. Hamish100 says:

      Several points.

      BBC radio scotchland- no sprinklers in scots multis. What’s new? All have dry risers which fire service use in the event of fire. No suggestion that there is anything wrong— just but… Maybe … bad Scotland. Incidentally how many council multis built by the during SNP govt reign?
      In Glasgow many high rises had gas mains supplies prohibited after Rowan Point disaster
      BBC scotchland investigation — or to others a FOI request. Lazy journalism.

      Our Northern Ireland spokesperson for Scottish fishing wants all the fish— but not for Scotland. No the fish are Irish Welsh and English . Do they know this.? Scts fishermen are beng sold out.

      Wimbledon – no point complaint about the Brit Andy Murray. From the most of babes Murray SAS he is a Brit.
      Assiimiliation is Complete

    117. Hamish100 says:

      Sorry

      Prescriptive text

      Wimbledon – no point complaintingbabout the Brit Andy Murray. From the mouth of babes Murray On BBC says he is a Brit.
      Assiimiliation is Complete

    118. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS;

      Get Used To It;
      http://rbs.postach.io/post/get-used-to-it

      Kirsty Hughes assesses the ‘Brexit shambles

    119. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS; From the Lady;

      To Dream? Or To Do?;
      http://indyref2.scot/category/peter_a_bell

      A country where people can flourish;
      https://www.snp.org/a_country_where_people_can_flourish_no_matter_where_they_are_born_or_who_they_are

      The UK’s Fearful Politicians Debate ‘softer or harder’ Brexit as Damage Mounts;
      https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-2880

      Peace Always

    120. Hamish100 says:

      Re the OO marches.

      Can there be so many bald men and tattooed women in one place and are coordinated?

    121. Smallaxe says:

      Sorry, first link ran away from me!
      LINKS;

      Kirsty Hughes assesses the ‘Brexit shambles; (AGAIN)
      https://www.cablemagazine.scot/will-brexit-happen/

      Robin McAlpine: Thank you Nicola Sturgeon, we’re finally ready to begin;
      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/11258/robin-mcalpine-thank-you-nicola-sturgeon-were-finally-ready-begin

      How Theresa May’s DUP deal offers Northern Ireland 16 times as much funding as the North East;
      http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/how-theresa-mays-dup-deal-13258931#ICID

      Peace Always

    122. Breeks says:

      If i had a company producing mineral water which marketed itself on purity and health, I doubt very much I’d be supporting the Tories with their attitude towards fracking and the risks of contamination to groundwater.

    123. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS;

      U.K. Won’t Escape Shackles of EU Laws After Brexit, Bloc Says;
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-29/u-k-won-t-escape-shackles-of-eu-laws-after-brexit-bloc-says

      May’s Brexit plan could hit rights of Britons abroad, campaigners tell EU;
      http://archive.is/mIktk

      The new Brexit minister, the arms industry, the American hard right… and Equatorial Guinea;
      https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/adam-ramsay-peter-geoghegan/new-brexit-minister-arms-industry-american-hard-right-and-e

      Peace Always

    124. Robert Peffers says:

      @Andy Anderson says: 2 July, 2017 at 2:33 pm:

      “How can a journalist enjoy lying. No moral fibre at all. Twats.”

      That’s because in the past in newspapers they mainly had mostly, “Reporters”, who were not named who just reported the news.

      These newspapers did also have a limited number of named, “Columnists”, named,”sub-Editors”, (for such as sports, politics and such like). Lastly there were a few elite, “correspondents”.

      In those days the newspaper mainly reported the real, (mainly), unbiased news, Readers knew they would get the owner and Editors bias from the known named, “Columnists”, and more so from the named, “Editorial”, and the sub-editorial specialist subjects.

      For example in Edinburgh there were special sports editions, and that meant mainly football editions on Saturdays, where the Hearts supporters bought, “The Pink News”, and Hibs supporters bought the, “Green Dispatch”.

      In other words you knew what you were getting and what would be openly biased.

      Now we have few actual news reporters but many, many more columnist and sub-editors and that means the publications are no longer, “Newspapers”, and those named columnists are not reporting news they are, in their own minds, making , the news.

    125. mike d says:

      Hamish100 8.01am. You forgot ‘ugly’ looking b******s as well.

    126. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS;

      Brexit changes Scottish independence context says games firm boss;
      http://archive.is/IDjO6

      Grenfell Tower victims threaten to boycott inquiry unless investigation is widened;
      http://archive.is/S3VV2

      That’s All Folks
      Peace Always

    127. Ottomanboi says:

      The time must soon come when, to paraphrase Diderot and Tom Nairn, the last Unionist is strangled with the last copy of the Sunday Post.

    128. Bob p says:

      Stewartb 10.14pm. Just emailed Highland spring and told them the same.

    129. Bill McLean says:

      Just emailed HIghland Spring to let them know they have lost another customer. Please do likewise the link is above at Stewartb at 1014pm.

    130. Breeks says:

      Maybe we need to find, and maybe crowd fund recruit, somebody to compose an ideas web page. In addition to our in-house Wings Media Baron, our in-house cartoonists, maybe we need an inhouse web designing wizard to offer his skills for the cause and expenses. Any takers out there in our wonderful country?

      I don’t mean as competition to the mobilise website idea, but a more graphic “hub” type representation of current ideas, some kind of ranking for those ideas for public popularity, a status summary of whatever stage the idea is at, contact details for people who are shepherding the ideas to fruition, and probably direct links to their own individual crowd funding events.

      It needn’t be a slick and glossy affair, (but nice if it was), but a robust page engine for working content.

      If the Mobilise people, or YES people see a cap that might fit them, then go ahead, go! Go! Go! Get something done.

      The whole point about brainstorming ideas is that some ideas spark other ideas like a ball bearing in a pinball machine. One idea fuels another, and often ideas can compliment each other and springboard other ideas.

      If you’re reading Chris Cairns, how would you feel about Hamish merchandising? Straight away there are patent issues and royalty issues to be done correctly, which frankly I don’t know enough about, but you’ve created in Hamish an iconic concept that could become vital.

      It’s easy to fire off ideas which disappear into the ether, get lost, and don’t turn into anything. This time around, we must not let that happen. This time we need YES coordination and organisation nailed to the same level as we nailed the grassroots support and iconography of YES last time. NOTHING should get missed.

      I’ve kicked up a few ideas, but if you’re wondering, a couple have gone to the mobilise portal, but beyond that, none of the ideas are being acted upon to my knowledge. My intention is that people pick up the ideas and run with them, don’t assume I’m acting on it myself. I don’t have the resources to act as the focal point for an idea. Money is tight and I often don’t have data to get online or electricity for a pc. Ideas come easy, but there’s no fuel at this end to take them further. I look to you people to take the ideas and run with them.

    131. Dr Jim says:

      Re Highland Spring: Ditto

      I also pointed out as CEO of that company he has the right to make whatever comments he wants about whatever he wants but the around 50% of the Scottish population also have those choices and can choose where to invest or not invest their money too

    132. auld highlander says:

      re highland spring and ceo, addresses of directors here..

      https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC067339/officers

    133. manandboy says:

      Highland Spring is the story of a plundered Scottish natural asset by a foreign business, aided and abetted by UK Government policy of selling anything to anybody.

      The story goes that originally the land (Blackford Farms Estates) was bought for falconry as there was a large rabbit population there. Arabs love falconry apparently. But there was something far more valuable in Blackford than rabbits – a vast store of underground water of very high quality. The rest is history as they say.

      How such an asset could come into foreign ownership so easily and so cheaply is a story still to be told. But in the somewhat remote Ochil Hills, perhaps ‘out of sight, out of mind’ has served the billionaire Arab owner of Highland Spring very well indeed.

      Ps. Highland Spring also bottle for the Tesco label and possibly one other supermarket chain – it might be the Co-op.

      The business may have changed in recent years, but at one time it was said a lot of the water from Ochils wells went to the Middle East.

    134. Smallaxe says:

      O/T: With an apology to the Rev.Stu, I think I may have omitted to remove the https. the first time: Hammers Comming!

      Broadcasting: How it used to be done!

      The first political radio station was Radio Free Scotland, which illegally hijacked the sound channels of BBC television after closedown. At the time, the BBC forbade the Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru to broadcast.

      Radio Free Scotland
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlmiV92cik0&ab_channel=pax681

      Radio Caroline
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbT3bbdgZhk&ab_channel=ulladubullab

      Peace Always

    135. Liz g says:

      Bill McLean @ 9.11
      I emailed Highland Spring as well politely of course.

      Thanks for the link Stewartb…..

      Hamish 100…..
      And I am not picking on you, it’s just that you have said in the past that you go to church.
      My comment is also aimed at all the others who also go to church and are reading this.

      Those OO marches….is it,—– Your —– Church they are marching for?
      Because other than, obviously the RC church I don’t know in the name of who’s Christianity they actually march?

      The assumption is that it’s all the Protestant churches.
      If it’s not the why don’t the Churches that they DON’T speak for speak up?

      Mibbi the Church members themselves should get clarification on this,and by a process of a “not in my name” elimination we can all find out which flavour of Christianity will actually claim this lot!

      Because when we are writing our Constitution,and they want the right to protect their religious identity,we need to be asking which one.

      If no church will claim them….then there needs to be another reason they need a protected right to march.
      After all if Scotland is no in the EU at the time… Kulture… won’t cut it.
      Also if ..You’re.. Church does claim them, wouldn’t you want to know that they march in your name?
      So church members get writing??

    136. Legerwood says:

      There seems to be a lot of intemperate remarks being made about Highland Spring and a fair head of steam being produced about boycotts etc because of remarks made by the CEO.

      Has anyone given a thought to the employees? Do you know how many people work There? Do you know what their chances are of finding another job in the area? Do you know how many of them voted YES? Care to take a guess as to how many will still vote YES after you try to ruin the company?

      It was the CEO who made the remarks. Remarks by the way which can be easily refuted and shown to be untrue but instead of doing that you all fly off the handle and damn the company.

      He says he wants the SG to Focus on investment and jobs. Well inward investment is growing year on year and last year was one of the best. So seems the SG is focussing on investment.

      He says he wants SG to Focus on jobs. Scottish unemployment is below the UK average and youth unemployment is amongst the lowest in Europe – only Germany is lower.

      He wants the SG to be mire involved in Brexit. They have been and have been ignored and their efforts dismissed. See response to Scotland’s place in Europe’s by SG.

      Better to answer his points than vent your spleen on the workers who are not the ones making the remarks.

    137. Dan Huil says:

      @Legerwood 9:50am

      You could make the same arguments about the bbc, Legerwood. We know how the bbc just ignores criticism. The CEO of HS will undoubtedly ignore our correction of the points he has made. In the same way I boycott the bbc I will boycott Highland Spring. If the CEO was to acknowledge his mistakes…?

    138. galamcennalath says:

      Highland spring guy wants Nicola to work with the Tories for best possible Brexit.

      Where do you start with that!?

      Fundamentally, from an economic, regulation, and individual rights perspective Brexit cannot be good. So I suppose he is talking about best of a bad choice.

      Brexit is rampant nationalism gone wrong. From a purely authoritarian perspective it could be successful – in a sub fascist isolationist kind of a way. Which is of course its appeal to Tories. Not the sort of political territory the SNP would normally be involved in.

      Nicola has put forward viable proposals. However these don’t actually fit with the Tory agenda. So no cooperation from them.

      So what does this plonker actually want Nicola to do beyond what she is?

      Simple really, yield to Tory will in negotiation and policy. Of course also to take Indy off the table.

      And neither are likely to happen! So we have to assume this intervention was purely posturing for the cause of the Union. That is not a good move for anyone in business. He should get on with his day job, and let Nicola do hers.

    139. Liz g says:

      Ledgerwood @ 9.50
      It’s no that the CEO might be speaking out against independance, that’s wrong Ledgerwood.
      It’s that in the 21st century Boss’s and company owner’s are trying to influence a vote.
      That should always be called out,where ever it happens,and for whichever direction it is indicated/inferred/suggested a political stance is taken.

      Keeping quiet,and letting them away with it to safeguard a few jobs is I think the wrong approach.
      Espically with a company who can’t outsource to another Country, Scottish Water isnay going anywhere.
      And Highland Spring will have to do business under which ever government WE choose and like it.

      If they don’t, someone else will of that I am sure,they are no going to walk away from Scottish water and leave it to someone else…and they canny take it with them.
      What they also can’t do….if I have anything to say about it is try and influence my Country’s politics.
      And no amount of job’s are worth giving an employer that kind of input..
      They. If they have a vote.. only have a vote of the same value as mine!

    140. David says:

      What we need is something like infowars to show the lies of the mainstream media, cnn in america has been telling lies for years and their viewers and ad money are getting less every day
      Thats the way to kill them off, tell the truth and shame the devil

    141. Breeks says:

      Legerwood says:
      2 July, 2017 at 5:05 pm
      The Highland Spring business leader story is also on STV News Facebook site.

      “It is possible the Highland Spring boss is trying to burnish his pro-Union credentials ahead of an imminent visit from HM the Queen who is going to open a new extension at the Highland Spring plant in Blackford….”

      Certainly not hard to join the dots.

      It’s also fair comment to mention that boycotting a company can affect jobs, which is true, but strikes me it’s the CEO of the company who ought to be the one worrying about that before bumping his gums. Doesn’t inspire much confidence in the sage wisdom running the company.

    142. David says:

      Why does anyone buy water in a country like scotland, i could see the sense in it if our water was contaminated, it has never made any sense to me, i go to the tap and getting a lovely clean glass of water, and its free apart from paying the £22 a month to pay for the water companies expenses in getting it to me in a clean and efficient manner

    143. Breeks says:

      And by the way, I’ll work with Tories to get the best possible Brexit deal. The best Brexit deal bar none is Scotland staying in the EU, and I’ll work with Labour, Tories, whoever to secure that objective as quickly as possible, (although I’d draw the line at UKIP the DUP).

      Sooner the Tories realise that, then the sooner there’s a possible agreement that can be reached. But not holding my breath. Scotland is staying in Europe, beyond which there is no compromise which I would make. Period.

    144. It’s a wonder Labour politicians don’t choke when they attempt to criticise the SNP Scottish Government talk about the housing crisis due to a shortage of affordable social rented housing.

      It was the Tories and their Labour friends who created the housing crisis in the first place with the right to buy policy.

      And those Labour politicians should be reminded constantly how they only built 6 Council houses when they were in power.

      Also it was Gordon Brown who tried to financially blackmail local Councils in Scotland into disposing (privatising) of all their housing stock.

      And it was Labour that extended the right to buy to include tenants of Housing associations.

    145. Liz g says:

      David @ 11.05
      Mibbi where you are,the waters nice
      I used to say the same thing till I moved to where I am now.
      The water here tastes strongly of chlorine and the water in the tenements in the westend of Glasgow is foul as well.
      So I guess it’s just about if you are lucky enough to have nice tasting water!

      Of course it could be a deliberate conspiracy by the water companies to make our water taste bad and so we turn to bottled water lol
      You’re right we do need an infowars to investigate this……except no the right wing looney tune that’s Alex Jones …Eh
      Seriously though there is a gap in the news for decent investigative journalism but I think it’s the same every where and even infowars has to be taken with a pinch of salt,although I agree the format of the show is good

    146. TheWasp says:

      When I was sacked from a job with a multinational by a false allegation a few years ago, I applied for a job at Highland Spring. I didn’t receive any word back, but about six or seven weeks later, after I was in a new job, I got an email from them telling me I could start the following Monday
      No interview, or even a conversation on the phone, but they were so desperate for workers that I was asked to start, the reason being, the expectations on the workers, and the working conditions were so bad that the people who had been taken on had left within weeks of starting.

    147. Capella says:

      @ Liz g – Scottish was never privatised when the English Water Board was sold off to private companies.

      Scottish Water is a statutory corporation that provides water and sewerage services across Scotland. It is accountable to the public through the Scottish Government. (Wiki)

      http://www.scottishwater.co.uk/

    148. bjsalba says:

      In this piece

      http://www.newsweek.com/trump-trump-administration-630996

      Headlined
      Forget Trump Tweets and Travel Ban, Here’s Five Major Moves The Administration Made When You Were Looking Elsewhere

      In the text:
      The Trump administration took a major step on Tuesday towards repealing a law designed to limit pollution in the nation’s waters.

      A lot of our protection is based on EU directives. I wonder how long that will last after Brexit.

    149. Liz g says:

      Capella @ 11.44
      Thanks Capella I did know….
      I was talking the bottled water companies
      Wasn’t really being serious anyway

    150. ScotsRenewables says:

      Breeks says:
      3 July, 2017 at 9:25 am
      Maybe we need to find, and maybe crowd fund recruit, somebody to compose an ideas web page.

      I’ve been a web designer for over 20 years and have been wondering what I could do to help the movement at this point in time. In 2013 I set up a website in a directory format with links to all the different groups and main arguments. I would do that again if people thought it would be useful, but I don’t want to duplicate other peoples’ efforts.

      Please feel free to contact me with ideas or requests for help.No crowdfunding required!

      http://webcraft.scot

    151. Valerie says:

      @ScotsRnewables

      How brilliant! Thank you.

      @Capella

      You don’t know how many arguments I’ve had with SNP haters, that Scots Water is not privatised. It’s a lie that pops up with disturbing regularity.

    152. ronnie anderson says:

      I,ve said it before re the Bbc the Scottish Gov should ban the beep from broadcasting Holyrood debates / committees & contract another broadcaster.

    153. mike d says:

      Bjsalba 11.44am. Before i left bus/lorry driving,driving time without a break eu regs 4 and a half hrs. British driving time without a break 5hrs 20mins. Says it all. After Brexit these tory b******s will work everyone but themselves to death. Glad I’m retired.

    154. Capella says:

      @ Liz g – understood 🙂

      @ Valerie – it’s a point, yet another point, that isn’t clear to the general public, but should be. Goes on the list of “modern mysteries which an Indy website could explain”.

    155. Dr Jim says:

      The Labour party and its claim of right to rule Scotland

      We know we were liars in the past, we know we were a rubbish government in the past, we know we were a jobs for the boys for life party in the past, we know we were an underhanded bunch of cretins in the past and we’re still not going to apologise for that but just gonnae put us back in charge because…..

      The Tory party and its claim of right to rule Scotland

      We’re all Prodisints Racists or mostly better off than the rest of you so that makes us better than everybody else and why wont you cretins just understand that

      The Orange Oompahloompas:

      If Muslim groups were to march up and down main street Scotland with a band supporting the fact they hated some other religion and would much prefer them all to die
      They’d be banned! and probably arrested for hate speech and radicalisation
      What makes the Orange Order different?

      Only the press have the right to citicise:

      Trump: We all know he’s a mental and I never thought I would agree with him on anything but this latest press thing has made me howl with laughter at the indignation of the media in their defence of their “Impartial” and “Unbiased” “Factual” reportage of events they cover as they squeal about how Trump is undermining them

      I’d run out of fingers counting the amount of “Journalists” I’d like to right hook

      Got all that off my chest, feel better now Aaahh!

    156. gus1940 says:

      Remaining on the subject of housing subsequent to the Grenfell disaster there has been much talk of the need to install sprinklers in tower blocks.

      I’ll try to be tactful here but it is well known that tower blocks seem to be magnets for tenants/users visitors who think it OK to urinate in the lifts.

      If automatic sprinklers which are activated by the presence of a fire in their immediate vicinity were to be installed the likes of the anti-social individuals referred to above would consider it great fun to hold a lit lighter under an automatic sprinkler head setting off the sprinkler with obvious expensive flooding consequences.

      The solution would be to install fire brigade activated/controlled sprinklers in conjunction with dry risers operated from a secure from vandals control box at ground level either inside or outside the building.

      On arrival after being called to a fire the fire brigade would assess the situation, fill the dry riser and activate from the secure control position the relevant sprinklers in the vicinity of the fire.

      I don’t know if such a system exists but if it did the Grenfell disaster could have been avoided without the risk of mischievous interference with the sprinkler system.

    157. Valerie says:

      I don’t buy Highland Spring, but I’d boycott if I did.

      It’s the insidious, pompous presumption they can subvert democracy, which they do with impunity.

      The Press play along with this shit, so why do we want to turn a blind eye?

      Last year’s fuss about Scottish strawberries, has turned out well. Tesco have Scottish Strawberries properly emblazoned on the packs now.

      Like everyone, I want to support Scottish workers, but not be subjected to being told what’s best for me in lieu of EU or Independence.

      Looks like buying the product is supporting some lavish lifestyle in UAE. Nice.

    158. Proud Cybernat says:

      In case you missed it…

      Wee Black Book – The Movie

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YwmOCqNxGU

    159. Tinto Chiel says:

      Anent labelling using the Butcher’s Apron, I notice the BBC Scotlandshire Sports webpage has a headline “Record number of Scots reach Worlds” and a Scots athlete holding an unfurled union jack.

      Yesterday there was a picture of Andy Murray in similar pose.

      No sneaky trick missed in Yoondom, ‘cos The Union never sleeps.

      Glad I’m out of the country on the 12th.

    160. Shinty says:

      The Union never sleeps. Well said Tinto Chiel

      The Yes movement although never gone away, is still in a state of slumber. I think after the summer recess we may get a date for our referendum, my guess is September NEXT year. Remember, the current SG need to be in power during the negotiations (another 2 years) then a further year to set Scotland up for success. Otherwise it would be left to the unionist barstewards who would set it up for failure.

    161. Legerwood says:

      Liz g @ 10.43 am and Greeks @ 10.59 am

      He is criticising the SG and using the well-worn ‘get on with the day job’ approach. That is an argument that can be easily refuted especially in the areas such as employment, investment and Brexit, as I stated in my post.

      Yet people have ignored this as a response to his comments and gone for the personal attacks, boycotts, foreigners owning our land/water/air.

      That means his criticisms of the SG are not dealt with and people in the wider community are left with the impression that what he has said is correct, that is the SG are not getting on with the day job. This is of course absurd but few if any of the posts above address the points he raised. Instead we have full on attacks on him, the company, etc

      That is not the right approach. Demonstrate clearly that what he has said is wrong, and the facts are all available to show he is, and he then has zero influence on his workforce or the wider public.

    162. HandandShrimp says:

      Good piece in the Guardian about the SNHS by a health professional.

      I suspect it will not go down well with the regular Yoon posters there…kind of swims against their “failing Scotland” tide.

    163. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      O/T (but that’s where we are anywhere), on the news today: The Mayhem Gang are going to take us out of Euratom, so DIY nuclear regulation awaits, folks!

      All because of May’s paranoia over the ECJ, apparently. This lies at the heart of her approach to “taking back control”.

    164. Welsh Sion says:

      Dan Huil says:

      2 July, 2017 at 2:35 pm

      Sunday Post: the tractors’ choice.
      _______

      Welsh Sion says:

      Sunday Post: the budgies’ choice.

    165. Jack Murphy says:

      HandandShrimp above said 2:01 pm
      “Good piece in the Guardian about the SNHS by a health professional.
      I suspect it will not go down well with the regular Yoon posters there…kind of swims against their “failing Scotland” tide.”

      I’m guessing this is the article HandShrimp refers re the Scottish NHS:

      From Anonymous:
      “As a senior manager in the health system in Scotland, managing a large budget and a substantial number of staff, I have the same challenges as my counterparts in England. But – though I’m not a nationalist – the Scottish National Party deserve an above-average score for their management of health and care…….”

      Anonymous is keen to emphasise the point that he/she is not a nationalist,repeated later in the piece.I guess the article wouldn’t have passed the Guardian’s UKOK Filtration Process without that comforting aside to it’s readers. 🙁

      A good piece from Anonymous—-I wonder if he/she would have said ,”I’m not a Tory” or “I’m not Labour”.
      Mmmm—-funny old world is the UKOK Guardian.

      The Guardian:
      http://archive.is/Lpp8j

    166. Smallaxe says:

      Office Chat: James Kelly, Scot goes PoP on Livestream:

      https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/SCOTgoesPOP

      Peace Always

    167. clipper says:

      Sorry O/T re the Highland Spring thing I’ve just emailed them to tell them I’ll never buy their product again – ever. Someone on here thinks they shouldn’t be criticised because a boycott might affect the workers, so we’ve just got to put up and shut up? Yeh right.

      How about the workers telling HIM to zip it?

      As an aside, the CEO of Nestle once said that he didn’t think that access to clean drinking water was a human right, rather that it’s a privelege that everyone should pay for, i.e. everyone obliged to buy their bottled water.

      If you want to hit these scumbags where it hurts then don’t buy bottled water, especially Highland Spring or Nestle.

    168. Meg merrilees says:

      Re Highland Spring:

      Well said Legerwood, rural economies depend on local employers to survive.

      It’s ironic that it takes someone from outside Scotland to appreciate the riches of our natural resources which we have in abundance…

      Water is so valued in the Middle East, yet here it literally runs off the hillside free.
      Sad that it can be politicised.

      Maybe our resources should be under a minimal Scottish control – say 25% of any company that is exploiting these valuable assets, otherwise, we will be asset stripped pretty quickly by the highest bidder and waken up to find China owns half our wind power, etc.

      Or are we already too late?
      Who gets the money from North Sea Oil – not any Scottish Oil fund – yet even 10% of the profit going into a Scottish fund would be a large sum of money.

      How much does Highland Spring put back into our economy?

    169. Petra says:

      @ ScotsRenewables says at 12:03 pm ….”I’ve been a web designer for over 20 years and have been wondering what I could do to help the movement at this point in time. In 2013 I set up a website in a directory format with links to all the different groups and main arguments. I would do that again if people thought it would be useful, but I don’t want to duplicate other peoples’ efforts. Please feel free to contact me with ideas or requests for help. No crowdfunding required!”

      http://webcraft.scot

      GREAT offer ScotsRenewables. Thanks for that. So many talented Independence supporters. Breeks will no doubt get back to you when he sees your message.

      …………………………………..

      @ Meg merrilees says at 4:03 pm …. ”How much does Highland Spring put back into our economy?”

      I don’t know … employs people … but see that he’s mentioned as being in the top three of Scotland’s richest landowners in the top UK 100 of EU farming subsidy recipients.

      Too bad I never thought of buying some land, dirt cheap no doubt, bottling water, buying a couple of coos and claiming EU subsidies.

      I thought he was a Brexit supporter? Did I get that one wrong?

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15384202.Three_of_Scotland_s_richest_landowners_in_top_100_of_EU_farming_subsidy_recipients/?ref=mrb&lp=20

    170. Dan Huil says:

      @Welsh Sion 2:37pm

      Whenever I read the word “budgie” I always hear in my mind the gravelly-voiced actor Ian Cuthbertson playing the character Charlie Endell in the TV series “Budgie”.

    171. heedtracker says:

      Don’t know if anyones pointed this out further up but, the new affordable house building going on say the New! Gorbals is stunning. Its really worth a look if youre into that sort of thing. Its hard to tell whether its Scots gov funded or not but what a transformation.

    172. Lenny Hartley says:

      Meg Merrilles when I worked in the oil industry, our companies in the UAE had to be joint ventures with a local company and they had to own at least 51% of the business. Now that would be a good idea for foreign companies outside the EU based in Scotland, especially if they are using our natural resources.

    173. Robert Louis says:

      Just regarding the First Minister’s day job.

      It is her day job, to prevent the utterly idiotic ‘brexit’ affecting Scotland, which is based upon nothing but blatant racism and a schism which has been present in the Tory party for forty years.

      It is her day job, to protect Scotland from the economic destruction that is coming and has already happened from brexit.

      It is her day job to protect Scottish universities and hospitals from the utterly destructive ‘brexit’ which London wants to force upon Scotland.

      It is her day job to protect Scots from an exploitative Government in England which was never elected by Scots and is wholly unrepresentative of Scotland (only 9% of MP’s are from Scotland).

      It is her day job, to protect the jobs of Scots in the finance industry when we see major finance houses planning to move out of Scotland because of brexit.

      It is her day job, to seek a restoration of Scottish independence, so that Scotland will regain control of its economy from the absolute disastrous management we have endured from London for over 330 years. Independence will also prevent London FORCING Scots to leave the EU against their wishes.

      It is her day job, to point out how Scotland’s oil wealth has been literally squandered over 40 years by London, and how NONE of that wealth has come to Scotland.

      It is her day job to tell Westminster that Scots voted by a very large margin to REMAIN within the EU. THAT is wholly non-negotiable.

      You see, Nicola Sturgeon, really is getting on with the day job. Standing up for Scotland, Scottish jobs and the Scottish people, against an out of control, wholly undemocratic, unrepresentative, dysfunctional Westminster Government.

    174. Meindevon says:

      Petra @ 4.33

      That article in The National is astounding. Whilst I don’t normally hold with means testing, this is outrageous. These super wealthy elite are just raking it in to our cost.

      ‘Overall the top 100 recipients received a combined £49.9m in basic payments last year, more than was paid out to the bottom 35,000 combined.’

      It’s not just that they could afford to subsidise themselves, but they are taking from the poorest farmers who really need it.

      Do you think the farmers will get the same amounts when EU subs stop? Can’t see Westminster affording these huge sums.

      I will be showing this article to a few down here and hope many will do the same up there.

    175. Smallaxe says:

      Ssssh;

      It’s a Secret
      https://twitter.com/StFilansDream/status/881865155742707712

      Don’t tell anybody!
      😉

      Peace Always

    176. Liz g says:

      Ledgerwood @ 1.58
      I didn’t attack the CEO personally,but your right that I didn’t look at the right or wrong of what he did or didn’t say about the Scottish government or anything else.

      That’s because my issue is The Boss ANY Boss has no business trying to influence votes, again, any votes.
      And it’s his role as a boss being seen as a platform for an opinion, that I object to.

      There was a time when we could have expected a Trade Union to address this but now it’s us,and all we can realistically do is write and complain and refuse to buy the product.

      He has no business, telling our government not to ask the population how they want to have Scotland governed, because it is causing him difficulty,as I already said ….
      His place is to run his business,to the best of his ability under what ever government WE choose,and like it!

      At this point in time we returned a government who have offered a vote,and he tries to say that’s a bad idea….eh..whit…. people gonnay stop drinking water or something??
      Because unless he is really convinced that
      people will stop wanting to drink water if Scotland has a vote…..what has it to do with his company ?
      And if he is claiming uncertainty…truth be told, I would struggle to care….. someone will sell the water and someone will buy the water…
      He is actually selling something he gets for free so the only actual uncertainty that affects him is the Scottish weather!

    177. Meg merrilees says:

      Liz g.

      My brother-in-law works at Scottish water. Glasgow is still supplied with water from Loch Katrine via a massive pipe, tunnelled through the mountains.

      Chlorine is added to comply with EU regs..

      I know, because the water in Bannockburn is nothing like as good as it used to be -partly because it now comes from a different reservoir – used to be North Third but now comes from somewhere near Crieff and it has Chlorine in it.

    178. Meg merrilees says:

      Loch Turret reservoir

    179. Liz g says:

      Meg Merrilees @ 5.42
      It’s really weird though Meg,Moodiesburn and Cumbernauld water taste totally different yet they come from the same supply and the two areas are practically next to each other.
      Don’t get me wrong,it’s all perfectly drinkable, but I have never tasted tap water as good as Moodiesburn has.

    180. Jim To0dd says:

      I don’t know why anyone would buy this piece of Sh1t. Only good for the Broons and Oor Wullie, nothing more. It was always regarded as a “joke” newspaper from as far back as I can remember and that is more than 60 years ago. What’s the circulation numbers? Is it enough to justify its own self importance?

    181. Meindevon says:

      Sorry Smallaxe, I missed the bit about it being a secret and posted it on Facebook! ?

      So does that mean that Scotland can now go independently to the EU? Coz I thought it had to be a UK delegation only that spoke to the EU? Have the rules changed?

      I had hoped that the EU would have shown its hand by now on how it feels about Scotland staying in the EU and how it would accommodate her.

    182. Meg merrilees says:

      Apparently each 1% pay rise in the public sector costs £1.5 billion so it’s actually very expensive.

      Just listening to a man on the radio.

      So not doing a deal with the DUP would have enabled nurses, firemen and police to get a 1% pay rise.

      In how many jobs do you put your life at risk whilst carrying out your duty?

      I think they are worth that extra money – shame on the MP’s that voted it down.

    183. Hamish100 says:

      Another £billion or so required for Hinkley point. More later no doubt.

      This money tree was bigger than I thought….. Oops £1 billion to improve public sector workers who have had to face the burden of austerity amongst others to keep the top bankers wealthy
      Scum bag greedy Tories.

    184. PacMan says:

      O/T

      I was reading an article on tech site about the German Government trying to censor hate content on social media. Although the normal BTL comments of Germans being closet nazis occurred, another interesting one was about the Germany’s society of ‘unthinking autonomon conformity’ that stifles the individualistic creativity that has made America’s economy so great.

      On reading that particular sub-thread, it occurred to me that obviously Germany has a sound economy with it’s base concentrating on niche industries by doing one thing very well and doing it better than it’s competitors and America’s economy focusing on continued innovation and being the size of being able to absorb the loses of the many enterprises that did not work.

      For me, it looks like we are following America’s approach but we are taking the worst of American corporate culture which only benefits the CEO’s and is only sustained through the constant consumption of debt.

      It made me mind that the Common Weal website had run a lot of articles about how an independent Scotland could at least try to emulate Germany’s economic approach during indy ’14.

      It is frustrating that the economic arguments about Indy just focuses on currency and not the fact that it isn’t rocket science to get an economy that provides small but stable long term growth. An independent Scotland may not be a rich one but given the right people in charge, we could have one that is reasonably well off and not the glaring inequalities and imbalances that we see now.

      Given that the BoE policy of providing the UK public and companies with cheap credit is not sustainable as well as the possibly disastrous effects of Brexit when it happens, it may well be worth focusing on this line of argument more.

    185. TheWasp says:

      Jackie bird and Shelley Joffre say Scottish health service has no nurses….royal college of nursing agree, as do royal college of midwives… SNPveryBAD

    186. Effijy says:

      Does the Mhad Ol’ Tadger, who owns “Scotland’s” Spring water know that our Football supporters bus generally needs to take a leak at the source of the springs, when we are returning from an away match?

      As we generally have packets of Pork Scratching with our Tennet’s Lager, should Ol’ Tadger be drinking that water?

      Should anyone?

      Taking the P*ss out of Bottled Water?

      Don’t Sheik the Bottle before thinking.

      His Camel hair coat would gladly go 7 days without drinking this stuff out of a plastic bottle.

      The Arab word for Sprinkling Water is ” “Na?a?a” in this case it’s Nada-Ha-Ha-Ha!

    187. jfngw says:

      @TheWasp 6:47

      Did they intentionally not mention this is not the number of midwives working in NHS Scotland but just the number that are registered as midwives. Not that this number is unimportant but I bet the story left the impression that there was 1200 less midwives working in NHS Scotland compared to last year.

      Compare this negative presentation to the positive naval ships story yesterday, no mention that the vow was 13 and only 3 had been actually ordered so far.

      This is why I always check a BBC stories factual background.

    188. Breeks says:

      ScotsRenewables says:
      3 July, 2017 at 12:03 pm
      Breeks says:
      3 July, 2017 at 9:25 am
      Maybe we need to find, and maybe crowd fund recruit, somebody to compose an ideas web page.

      Please feel free to contact me with ideas or requests for help.No crowdfunding required!

      http://webcraft.scot

      That sounds perfect ScotsRenewables. Gonna put some stuff together and send it your way. Excellent.

    189. Smallaxe says:

      Meindevon says:
      3 July, 2017 at 6:09 pm
      “Sorry Smallaxe, I missed the bit about it being a secret and posted it on Facebook!?”

      See, some of you people cannae haud watter. Especially Highland Spring Watter, it seems. I thought that if I posted it on WoS then it would go no further.
      🙂

      Peace Always my Friend

    190. Shinty says:

      Breeks – I’ve never said this before, but I always enjoy your posts and contributions (as with a few others). It’s people like you, ScotsRenewables and a whole host of others who will ensure Scotland, next time, votes Yes.

      We have people power on our side, thank you to all of you.

    191. Rock says:

      David,

      “Why does anyone buy water in a country like scotland, i could see the sense in it if our water was contaminated,”

      The selfish middle classes would rather spend extra money buying water rather than donating it to the poor.

      And the vast majority of them will never vote Yes to Scottish independence.

    192. Brian Fleming says:

      Stu, how dare you accuse the media/Slab of quibbling over grammar? Not at all. They’re quibbling over semantics.

    193. Smallaxe says:

      Breeks; Don’t forget the computer game!

      “Hamish in a Zombie shoot-em-up shooting zombie Yoons with a deadly ray gun of optimism and lobbing in hope grenades.”

      Get that patented ASAP.
      🙂

      Peace Always Breeks my Friend (excepting the above^)

    194. Gfaetheblock says:

      Effijy- FFS, no need for islamiphobia in this site!

      As we generally have packets of Pork Scratching with our Tennet’s Lager, should Ol’ Tadger be drinking that water – Don’t Sheik the Bottle before thinking.

    195. Breeks says:

      Do it Smallaxe.

      Make enquiries. See what is costs to get a phone App game made. Dundee Uni runs courses. Maybe get a student to do one as a project.

      I would bet the game engine might be something fairly bog standard, and it’s just sounds and graphics that you’d need to get designed and bolted on. Basically a “skin” for an off the peg game.

      Doesn’t have to be brilliant to be funny, but get the right designer and it could be both.

    196. McDuff says:

      Highland Spring

      Its quite amazing that in the lead up to indy `14 the big high st businesses were so vocal in predicting the negative economic effect on their companies in Scotland should we vote YES. And here we have Brexit which could have a catastrophic effect on businesses throughout the UK and yet these same companies are silent .
      Now the CEO of H/Spring ignores Brexit and rants on again about the hazards of independence while ignoring the potential negative effect of Brexit on his company.
      If Brexit is a disaster and there is an economic downturn in the UK with the loss of thousands of jobs, the last thing people are going to spend their money on is bottled water and as his market is in England he could well be in the shit. No doubt it won`t bother Mr Montgomery as it will have been a Unionist cock-up that screwed his company which makes it perfectly acceptable.

    197. yesindyref2 says:

      @Petra
      It used to be something like 30 tups, then get the supplements for “looking after the land”, let the tups do their thing and sit in the pub all day drinking. Don’t know if that’s changed, but land reform is badly needed, there’s a lot of abuse.

      But of course there’s also genuine need, and very contributory estate owners who do a lot in the local economy, and that’s the problem I guess, chucking out the bath water while keeping the baby.

    198. Petra says:

      @ Meindevon at 5:16pm …… “Super wealthy rich raking it in.”

      Yeah it’s absolutely disgusting Meindevon and that was probably the same crowd who were complaining about late CAP payments and giving Nicola Sturgeon a hard time. Seemingly some of them are putting small farmers out of business and then buying up their farms. With Brexit it’s said that around 80% of hill farmers in Scotland will go bust. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Scotland end up in the hands of a few (fewer) extremely wealthy landowners / farmers who will continue to get a big bung from Westminster when the poor plebs are out of the way.

      Andy Wightman a Green politician in Scotland, and author, knows exactly what’s going on and has been pushing for tax reform and land ownership to be dealt with. The wealthy cabal see him as a great threat and are now planning to take him to Court. That’s the kind of country we’re living in. The powers that be suppressing the serfs at every turn. It’s horrendous. If he’s taken to Court I hope the Scots get right behind him. You should take a look at some of his books. A real eyeopener but extremely depressing for those who truly love Scotland. …. Who owns Scotland?, Scottish Land and Power, Community Land Rights, the Poor had no Lawyers etc.

      ………………………………………………….

      @ The Wasp at 6:47pm ……. “SNHS no nurses …”

      There’s a good article in the National that highlights that NHS recruitment has improved greatly since last year. In some areas at 97%. The nurse / midwife disaster is being chewed over in England right now, so I wonder if they’re trying to project this on to us?

      There’s also an article in the Herald outlining that the new Head of Psychiatry in Scotland is complaining about a lack of beds (Scotland with 4.7 beds per 1000 people compared to 2.7 in England, Wales and NIreland) and that high security female patients are having to be cared for at Rampton in England. He thinks it’s disgraceful that relatives etc have to make a 200 mile journey to see them.

      The reality is that English youngsters with mental health issues are being sent to Scotland because there are NO suitable beds in England and Wales, two Scottish females only are at Rampton and not being dealt with at Carstairs in Scotland because there were too few of them and that ALL Northern Irish high security patients are being sent to Carstairs in Scotland as there are no facilities to cater for them at all in NIreland. No mention from Doc (or is it lying Tom Gordon?) about the journey their relatives have to make to visit them.

      That’ll be next up when we get our Independence. Arlene Foster can dip into her kitty and open her own secure unit in NIreland to ‘nurse’ her ain folks and while she’s at it take a turn of housing the ex-landowning refugees from Scotland.

    199. yesindyref2 says:

      @McDuff
      Problem with Highalnd Spring is only 3% I think of their sales go abroad including the EU, 85% down to England.

      So basically they don’t give a stuff abut the EU though I’d be surprised if they don’t have EU workers, and probably don’t care about the Scottish market.

      The guy’s bought and sold, Burns would have a fit.

    200. galamcennalath says:

      McDuff says:

      rants on again about the hazards of independence while ignoring the potential negative effect of Brexit on his company

      Good point.

      Which proves the intervention is ideological British Nationalism and nothing to do with business and economy.

      Brexit is a clear and present threat to everyone and everything … except in the eyes of inward looking isolationist BritNats.

    201. yesindyref2 says:

      @galamcennalath
      Well, if the UK economy tanks with Brexit, I’d guess people will start drinking tap water, rather than buying quite expensive bottled water, which is what HS is.

    202. heedtracker says:

      David says:
      3 July, 2017 at 11:05 am
      Why does anyone buy water in a country like scotland, i could see the sense in it if our water was contaminated, it has never made any sense to me, i go to the tap and getting a lovely clean glass of water, and its free apart from paying the £22 a month to pay for the water companies expenses in getting it to me in a clean and efficient manner

      Tap water contains chlorine to disinfect it. No idea how much but is it any good for you?

      Its intended ofcourse to kill germs but what’s a gern. You can let tap water stand overnight and the chlorine will have evaporated, well so they say.

      If you dont feel that great some of the time, its quite easy to keep away from things like chlorine, to see if that makes a difference. Its worth checking all kinds of chemicals that are added to our food and water.

      Ofcourse, if you’re in any UK town or city, you breathe air that has toxic chemicals anyway. Just ask UK gov why they thought it was a great idea to pump diesel exhaust into the atmosphere. Not that you’ll get an answer. And its probably only harming the young, the elderly and the sick.

    203. Legerwood says:

      This is the link to the Guardian article in the Guardian on the BHS in Scotland that heedtracker, I think it was, referred to above.

      http://archive.is/Lpp8j

    204. Macart says:

      Hmmm, Highland Spring…

      Here’s the thing. Their management don’t get to call the shots on how we wish to be governed. Glad n’ all that they’re looking out for their business and profits. Good for them. How and ever, all they’re entitled to, just like the rest of us, is an opinion and a vote.

      We’ve seen what happens when business attempts to call the shots with government. We’ve seen nakedly corporately compromised government, lobbying, bought and paid for MPs and ministers.

      Hasn’t worked out so well.

      In fact, a good many people would say (and with some justification), that corporately compromised government has almost completely trashed the economy of the UK.

      So, as far HS is concerned? I think their ever so helpful statements should be taken under advisement (binned). They have no better stake, or greater say, in the future of our government or economy than anyone in the electorate. And I do mean anyone.

      All our arses are hingin’ oot the windae. Personally, I’m for trying something new in our government.

    205. Breeks says:

      I was once told the chlorine in UK tap water is one tenth of the safe maximum limit for drinking. It’s a low level background disinfectant. The Army issues water purification tablets in its ration packs, or did anyway, and these were on the higher end of the safe to drink scale. They killed the bugs in the water but the water tasted rank, so you also got sachets of orange juice to hide the horrible taste. Wasn’t exactly Robinsons Barley Water, but you could drink on the hoof and not die of the shits. A much more satisfactory result was achieved however when you boiled your pond water and stuck an emergency tea bag in it.

      Domestic water supplies are 1/10th the concentration, but then, you’re not drinking water from a ditch or a stream. It’s been filtered and made safe in other ways too, and tested regularly.

      Keepers of tropical fish need to beware of the Chlorine in tap water, and the temperature when doing their partial water changes, or the shock can kill their fish. One fish keeper who’d done it for years reckoned than blasting the water full pressure into a jug agitated the water and got rid of most of the chlorine in the frothy bubbles. Whether that’s true or an old wives tale I don’t know, but his fish seemed happy enough.

      I’m quite relaxed about chlorine in the water, and happy to drink tap water… in Scotland. No doubt it’s safe to drink in London and Gloucestershire but it tasted thoroughly horrible. No doubt Rev Stu will confirm that. It’s full of calcium from the limestone, which makes your kettles and washing machines fur up with calcium deposits. Not harmful, but Scottish water tastes much better and fresher. I can appreciate buying water in London, but in Scotland, tap water is absolutely fine.

    206. Thepnr says:

      Boycotts are one of the most effective ways of the ordinary consumer of expressing their discontent with a product or service.

      If your local shop was known for selling milk that was off or eggs that were rotten. What about the local takeaway after a visit by the health sector and it got a rating of 1?

      These type of businesses would shut down in short order because in that context by word of mouth dissatisfaction is spread quickly and that’s then end for them in that community.

      The other end of the scale is boycotts against mutinationals such as BP or Coca Cola, these are international but in the main very few bother their arse and the bottom line for these companies is rarely hit.

      Then you have mid range companies like Highland Spring where boycotts too can make a difference, this time not because of the product but by the conduct of the management in a political context. We might not all care about political decisions but we all affected by them.

      The best example as many will remember was Gerald Ratner and his brand of Ratner’s jeweler’s shops who famously said this in a speech to the Institute of Directors at a gathering in the Albert Hall.

      “We also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on, all for £4.95. People say, “How can you sell this for such a low price?”, I say, “because it’s total crap.”

      He compounded this by going on to remark that one of the earrings were “cheaper than an M&S prawn sandwich but probably wouldn’t last as long.”

      Ratner’s comments have become textbook examples of why chief executives should choose their words carefully.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ratner

      That last sentence is well worth heeding if your an executive of a Scottish company or brand talking in a political manner against the wishes of possibly 50% of your potential customers.

      Some businesses could move elsewhere, Highland Spring cant.

    207. KOF says:

      Re the water from the tap discussion.

      My father was a water inspector in the 1950s and was always rather disparaging of modern water treatment. He had been quite pround of the water in Scotland, as opposed to England where they had been using chlorine regularly since the 1930’s. When he started as an inspector, in Perthshire, they still used a traditional method of filtration using stones, then, gravel, then, then various grades of sand to filter out the impurities. This worked quite well without the need for chemicals. However, it took a long time to properly filter water. Adding chlorine drmatically cuts down the time needed to clean the water so it’s fit for consumption. It’s all down to the ethos, time is money.

      I’m sure chlorination was starting to be introduced in the 50’s when he was an inspector, so it’s not a new thing. I guess over the decades as water treatment facilities were upgraded for “efficiency”, they were adding more and more chlorine to make the process even quicker, hence the subtle, but distinct, delcine in water taste. Even up to the day he died, he thought chlorine was a bad idea, just because it was entirely unnecessary. If something was worth doing, it was worth doing properly.

    208. Lenny Hartley says:

      Re water treatment, these days on Arran most of the mains water, (there is still a lot of folks that have their own water supply and septic tanks) comes from boreholes, there is one main treatment facility and the water is then pumped around the island after the required chemicals are added.
      However in the village of Corrie which is not on the mains ring have a system that uses ultra violet light to kill the bacteria and other stuff that lurks in the water. I can’t remember what chemicals are then added to the tanks but it would depend on the ph factor of the water.

      So it’s possible to kill the bad stuff without chemicals.

    209. meg merrilees says:

      Some plonker trying to justify the really good value offered by Hinckley Point because wind power actually costs 50% more to produce.
      (Aye but there’s very low cost decommissioning with renewables.)

      Anyway, the British taxpayer won’t have to pay any of it because it’s the French that will foot the increased bill – (so that makes it alright then, but who pays for the decommissioning?)

      Finally, and most importantly, ( desperately) Britain is one of the first and strongest nuclear powers and it would be madness to get rid of it now!!!

      end of pompous spiel from pompous south British man.

    210. Smallaxe says:

      Breeks;

      I may be mistaken, which I frequently am, but I’ve heard a whisper that a certain Rev. Stuart Campbell of whom you may have heard, has contacts in that very industry of which you speak so very eloquently.

      Unfortunately and much to my regret and my own exceedingly poor command of language, I think perchance that your good self would be a most excellent choice of spokesperson to broach this matter with the good Reverend, I’m positive that he would leap at this idea with unbridled passion, excitement and enthusiasm.

      Wit dae ye fink?
      🙂

      Peace Always

    211. geeo says:

      Bampot farmer on Scotlandtonight …!!

      “Im alright jack..my farm doesnt need EU subsidy…tariffs wont happen to me….yada yada yada”.

      Struggling hill farmer…”Do YOU currently take the EU subsidies mr bampot rich farmer”?

      Bampot..”yes, of course i do…”!!

      Wow !!

    212. heedtracker says:

      So it’s possible to kill the bad stuff without chemicals.

      Just try leaving a big jug of tap overnight and use only that for a month or so. Also, try eating a lot less meat. As soon as food gets into manufacturing process, things happen to it for all kinds of sensible reasons but all of it is only to maximise profit.

      Check this out, killer whales are at the top of the food chain too, although we dont eat seals. Why not though? fisherman shoot them all the time.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39738582

    213. Meg merrilees says:

      Robert Louis 5.10pm

      Nicola is one of the finest things in Scotland just now.
      Without her and her colleagues, the future would look very bleak indeed.

      Imagine if Colonel Gadaftie or Kezia, or worse still, Wee Willie was the actual First Minister just now.

      No. Willie, now is not the time for another EU referendum, “Brexit means Brexit’.

      No, Kezia, now is not the time to consider a Federal UK, anyway, Jeremy is unelectable.

      No tRuthless, I don’t need your 13 Scottish stooges, and I know you promised the Fishing fleet of the NE that they would be OK but Gibraltar is more important and we’ll have to keep the Spanish happy somehow, now, go away, I’ve got Arlene on the phone from the Harland and Wolf shipyard…

      Thank goodness that Sturgeon woman has given up on Independence, at least one still has a few cards up one’s sleeve.

    214. Hamish100 says:

      Re Highland Spring

      Personally I am getting very fed up that High paid executives living of basic pay employees and Scotlands resources run us down.

      Has he been knighted yet? If not I’m sure his Perthshire tory lot have put his name forward to queenie — eh Murdo ? aint that right.
      Tory leeches.

    215. heedtracker says:

      Hamish100 says:
      3 July, 2017 at 10:58 pm
      Re Highland Spring

      Personally I am getting very fed up that High paid executives living of basic pay employees and Scotlands resources run us down.

      They’re there because we let them do it this way. This is just part of Gordon Brown’s great legacy, a filthy rich elite and a
      slave wage under class.

      It could also explain why so few vote now. Why bother, youre only going to shafted by whichever tory, red and blue.

      Another tory fuckwit in action.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-european-union-eu-steve-baker-theresa-may-wholly-torn-down-libertarian-alliance-a7820721.html

    216. Legerwood says:

      Legerwood says:
      3 July, 2017 at 10:10 pm
      This is the link to the Guardian article in the Guardian on the BHS in Scotland that heedtracker, I think it was, referred to above.

      http://archive.is/Lpp8j
      ……….

      Well I made a right mess of that!

      Two Guardians in the one sentence and should be NHS in Scotland.
      ………..

      Last word on pronouncements from business ‘leaders’.

      If your response is to boycott their product then where does that leave the businesses, and their leaders, who are pro-independence if the other side decide to ‘punish’ them for their pro-indy comments?

      Better to engage with the arguments and put your side of the argument with supporting evidence rather than boycotts which, if used by both sides against the other, end up hurting everyone without advancing any cause whichever side you are on.

    217. Smallaxe says:

      meg merrilees says:
      3 July, 2017 at 10:38 pm
      “Some plonker trying to justify the really good value offered by Hinckley Point because wind power actually costs 50% more to produce.
      (Aye but there’s very low cost decommissioning with renewables.)”

      Hi, meg, then we have this to deal with.The biggest issues right now are radioactive waste and pollution, nuclear safety, environmental justice, and the costs of nuclear energy. Nuclear power plants produce vast amounts of radioactivity in nuclear waste, some of which is in the form of used fuel, which isn’t consumed in the way that one imagines burning fossil fuels.

      When you put nuclear fuel into a reactor, that fuel doesn’t get “used up” in the same way as burning fossil fuel. The nuclear waste has the same volume and mass when it comes out of the reactors as the nuclear fuel that went in several years earlier. But when it is removed to put in fresh fuel, the fuel rods are 6-8 million times more radioactive than when they went into the reactor. The splitting of atoms creates even more radioactive byproducts, but it is not consumed the way coal or natural gas does. The used fuel remains extremely hot for hundreds of years. Radioactive materials in the waste remain a threat to health, water, and the environment for hundreds of thousands of years.

      Currently, there’s no solution for radioactive waste. There’s no way to dispose of it in an environmentally safe or responsible way.

      Peace Always Meg

    218. Thepnr says:

      @heedtracker

      Interesting story, best bit was kept until the end.

      Mr Baker is also under pressure to reveal his links to a group that donated £435,000 to the DUP to campaign for Brexit during last year’s referendum.

      The MP was handed £6,500 by the obscure Constitutional Research Council, the body which used a legal loophole to channel the money to the DUP.

      £6525 would have been exactly 1.5% quite a typical “commission” for services rendered as I understand in negotiations.

      Hahaha, sorry for laughing but it is so open now and nobody is prosecuted, instead it seems they get a promotion to negotiate our Brexit deal. Despite any history they have behind them of hate against Europe and the EU and everything it stands for.

      Are MI5 all too busy looking at “Nationalists” instead of real enemies?

      If I wasn’t laughing I might be crying, nah, I don’t think so. It pays dividends to laugh at them rather than cry.

    219. Cactus says:

      Happy Independence day, to the US of A!

      Fancy some of that Scotland?

      Drink water.

    220. Big Phil says:

      NO dont drink water , fish F..k in it. lol

    221. Liz g says:

      Ledgerwood @ 11.27
      My last word too….we will just need to agree to disagree.

      Pro Indy Business leader’s same goes as far as I’m concerned.
      They have no right to issue a veiled threat about job’s to ordinary workers.

      I don’t know about you,but I am sick to the back teeth of politics on this island being about what businesses will or won’t like.
      Business will do Business no matter what….they just try to game the political discourse.
      They try to get us (the electorate) to believe that we must all take care not to upset Business and the market’s….

      I am calling bullshit on it.
      And each and every time they try to influence their environment I will continue to do so.
      Wish more would, and we mibbi no hiv to worry so much about workers rights.

    222. Big Phil says:

      brill. 😉

    223. Big Phil says:

      Smallaxe, ?? whats the name. ??

    224. Thepnr says:

      Very glad to see the fighting spirit Scots are well known for still survives on Wings when we’re threatened by the UK State much as we today. Our livelihoods and small businesses, big businesses are all under threat. We just don’t know yet to what extent.

      YOU (Every Scot) have no choice, YOU (Every Scot) will bow to your Imperial masters and accede to their choices that they make on your behalf. YOU made that decision when you voted in 2014.

      That’s why we have another Tory Government that are hellbent on dragging Scotland out of Europe. You had a vote in that referendum and you won by 62% to 38%!

      Yet you have been ignored, a democratic deficit if ever there was one. Scot’s votes will ALWAYS be ignored if England votes differently. Learn that lesson and think about it.

      How can you change that and make it different? For me.

      I want a choice, you are denying me that choice by refusing a democratic referendum. No matter which country I lived in that wouldn’t be right. YOU cannot make my choices for me, I will make my own choices. That’s how democracy is supposed to work.

      Hopefully enough will change their mind when we get a second chance at doing what is normal. Ruling our own country, in charge of the choices we make and big enough to take responsibility for those choices our people made.

    225. Dr Jim says:

      I heard that government was for the people by the people
      when big business starts throwing its weight around they should be stopped just like the press, media and polling companies all manipulating the system to their own advantage

      The people are the government and we hire people to run it for us by the offer of their merits and a voting system
      Never should we stand to be dictated to by those who work for us the people

      Our country our government our people our freedom of choice as to whom we elect to serve us
      If anyone stand in the way of that by force or devious method we the people should hold the right to reject them by whatever means available to us

      The people are the wealth and sustainability of any country,
      remove that power from the people and you’re left with slavery, the anarchy of greed and the the politics of possession

      In other words Tories

    226. Smallaxe says:

      Big Phil;

      I don’t know what I’ve done Phil, I was dealing with a company by e-mail and somehow the name is appearing here.I’ve been FRACKED!
      I’ll need to;
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5xxh5UX4U&ab_channel=RPCchannel

      Coughtrie International
      Montrose Avenue
      Hillington
      Glasgow
      G52 4LZ
      United Kingdom
      T: +44(0)141-882 3262
      F: +44(0)141-882 0199 (sales)

      Peace Always

    227. Liz g says:

      Dr Jim @ 1.09
      Well said..
      As far as I can tell Government has ONE job,and only one job.
      That’s to collect and distribute taxes.

      We should be electing the government we think will do the best job,of distributing the tax,to keep us safe and to meet the costs of the kind of society we want to be.

      That’s it.
      None of this flim flam around what business needs and wants…. they want a free market, let’s actually give them one.

    228. Contrary says:

      Just a note to those querying chlorine in tap water – in general, it is necessary. At the end of the treatment process, which can involve two sand filtration stages depending on original water composition, you need to be left with residual chlorine in the water to compensate for any potential stagnation in the water delivery pipes – so you can come back from your hols and not get a mouthful of bacteria!

      Water treatment is always moving on, and will have changed significantly in detail since the 1950s (but not in principle!), and each treatment is tailored to the composition of the source (high manganese level, extra filtration to take it out e.g.).

      Fishies are indeed at risk from tap water, you get conditioners to help, but the low levels of chlorine can also be removed by leaving a bucket of water exposed to air for a while. I personally filter my drinking water, but that is a personal taste choice, and always run the tap for a minute after a period of non-use, just to ensure there aren’t any mistakes with that residual chlorine content 🙂

    229. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS; From the Lady:

      Theresa May leads a near zombie government;
      https://www.snp.org/theresa_may_leads_a_near_zombie_government

      A new pay deal for Scotland;
      https://www.snp.org/a_new_pay_deal_for_scotland

      Independence offers level of security and certainty over Brexit, business owners comment;
      http://www.businessforscotland.com/independence-offers-level-security-certainty-brexit-business-owners-comment/

      Peace Always

    230. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS;

      I’m no fan of the SNP, but they know what they’re doing on health;
      http://archive.is/mnxRF

      Doubts cast over free trade deals immediately after Brexit;
      http://archive.is/TzozK

      Something is rotten in the state of … Britain;
      http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/

      Peace Always

    231. Smallaxe says:

      Links;

      How power operates in modern Britain: with absolute contempt;
      http://archive.is/cr06L

      Human Rights in Europe: Explainer;
      https://rightsinfo.org/infographics/human-rights-uncovered/

      A Role for the ECJ after Brexit?;
      http://www.europeanfutures.ed.ac.uk/article-4872

      Peace Always

    232. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS;

      FIRE EXPERT “ANYTHING WILL BURN IN GOVT #CLADDING TEST SET-UP” #GRENFELL (VIDEO);
      https://skwawkbox.org/2017/07/03/fire-expert-anything-will-burn-in-govt-cladding-test-set-up-grenfell-video/

      The Americanisation of the NHS, happening right here, right now;
      http://publicmatters.org.uk/2017/06/24/the-americanisation-of-the-nhs-happening-right-here-right-now/

      Stormont crisis: Direct rule now looking unlikely as talks set to be put on ice;
      http://archive.is/7lr7E

      That’s All Folks: Have a Terrific Tuesday.
      🙂

      Peace Always

    233. Johnny says:

      O/T

      In very early stages as yet, but looking to get a Yes group/hub (re)activated in Renfrew.

      I have been given some excellent advice on how to get things up and running from Dave at Forward Dunoon and would like to get cracking. The idea would be to get going now in anticipation of indyref 2 but, in the meantime, there would be an attempt to persuade people to the Yes side, hold speaking events in the town and so on.

      All that said, it’s called a Yes ‘group’ for a reason, so I’d be thrilled to hear from anyone who’d like to take part and to hear what ideas you might have for that. For instance, I’d be the first to admit that I don’t have the best ‘business’ head so it’d be awesome to have some help. The idea would probably be to hold some sort of small get-together once some people have indicated their willingness (keenness?) to get things rolling to discuss what we can do and how everyone could help.

      If you would like to register interest, please get in contact with yesrenfrew [at] outlook [dot] com. Thanks!

    234. galamcennalath says:

      Links …

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/scotland-and-the-myth-of-the-corbyn-bounce/

      ” This lack of a ‘Corbyn bounce’ in Scotland … “

      This article is hearsay and opinion based, not facts. The data that is beginning to appear shows clearly that there was a significant Corbyn Bounce in Scotland.

      https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/kug7qzc4lh/InternalResults_170615_VoteSwitchers_W.pdf

      15% of SNP 2015 voters who voted in 2017 switched to Labour.

      11% SNP switched to Tory.

      The Corbyn Bounce in Scotland was masked by a similar number of more BritNat orientated Labour folks switching to Tory.

      It is preferable that SNP switch to Labour rather than Tory, IMO, because they are likely to come back on the Indy issue.

    235. Lenny Hartley says:

      galamcennalath The SNP lost 13.1 percent of its vote, according to the figures you quote figures it’s around 26%?

    236. colin alexander says:

      No need to talk up the SNP now to get an indyref if you believe the Scot Govt will deliver one by 2021.

      The electorate and Scottish Parliament have already given the political mandate for indyref2, so it’s time to leave party politics aside and promote independence.

      To have any chance of winning independence by an indyref, the YES campaign will have to appeal to people of all parties and none.

      Unfortunately, politicians will want to take the lead and get the credit, so no doubt the SNP will control the YES campaign and decide it, so it will be seen as the SNP’s YES campaign.

      First it was Alex Salmond; if there’s a next time it will be Nicola Sturgeon. Firmly planting in the minds of non-SNP supporters that a vote for indepedence is a vote for Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP. Be sure that’s what the NO campaign will do AGAIN. It’s successful, it worked.

      Will YES / SNP learn from that and allow non-SNP campaigners to run and lead the YES campaign with Nicola Sturgeon sticking to what she has done for years, running devolved Govt? No, of course not.

      It risks being a re-run of: “I don’t like Alex Salmond / Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP, so I’m no voting independence”.

      People are already sick of listening to Nicola Sturgeon’s voice. No offence meant. But she has been overexposed.

      Organisation, planning and good economic policies are what will win it. Not White Papers about plans for the EU, Monarchy, Trident etc. These should be issues for the people of independent Scotland to decide AFTER we are independent and free to make those choices.

      The SNP should also announce they will disband once government elections are arranged for independent Scotland.

    237. Johnny says:

      An earlier post seems to have gotten lost in the ether (seems to have been something going wrong between 8:04am and 9:33am when the last two posts went up).

      So. it’s early days but looking to get a Yes group/hub (re)activated in Renfrew.

      Had some excellent advice on how to get up and running from Dave at Forward Dunoon, which I’ll be looking to put into action as soon as is possible.

      That said, it’s called a ‘group’ for a reason, so I am hoping to hear from people who might like to take part. Let’s hear your ideas too.

      The immediate idea would likely be to get some initial interest going and then maybe have a get-together to discuss how everyone who is interested can help and what the exact form of the way forward should be. Again, I have to extend many thanks to Dave at Forward Dunoon for some excellent ideas on how we might raise funds – this was invaluable advice.

      It might seem early but really we would want to be well-established by the time another indyref comes around.

      So, if you’re interested in taking part, be thrilled to hear from you. Contact yesrenfrew outlook com, and let’s get cracking!

    238. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      galamcennalath at 9.33

      Exactly. The article is nonsense and uses Labour figures from the previous election as a measure rather than the collapsed labour vote (12 to 14%) registered in all opinion polls previous to the election that was sprung on us.

      Of more concern to me is that the election became a binary choice between a London Tory Government and a London Labour Government and a significant section of hithertoo SNP support peeled off and took part in that choice.

      The lesson is that the SNP has to promote independence (No London government is good for Scotland)at all times and persuade a majority of Scotland that Scotland’s independent future is where their vote should go AT ALL TIMES. It did not do so. It in fact implied, probably without intention, that a Corbyn government was a better outcome.

    239. galamcennalath says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      If you look at the table, you’ll see 23% of 2015 voters stayed at home

      The figures given and in the table are those that voted in 2017. ie a percentage of 2017 vote, after a big chunk has been lost to apathy.

      These can be adjusted to be a percentage of 2015.

      It’s a survey and therefore has statistical errors. Also recollection etc.. The percentages don’t quite match the numbers of actual votes.

      However, the general ‘flow’ of voters should be representative.

    240. galamcennalath says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:

      concern to me is that the election became a binary choice between a London Tory Government and a London Labour Government

      That used to be the case at GEs. Some people believed things had changed. This shows they haven’t. There is still fluidity among some voters between SNP and Labour.

      IMO, they can be swung back if the issue is Indy ….

      SNP has to promote independence (No London government is good for Scotland) at all times

      I totally agree. I joined the SNP just after IndyRef1. I remember the huge turn out at early branch meets. Enthusiasm filled the air. That is what drove the 2015 mega-slide.

      Much of that has been lost. Pushing Indy at all times and getting a majority behind Indy is the way forward. Softly softly just gives the Unionists breathing space and opportunities to undermine us.

    241. Valerie says:

      This is good news.

      Sam Coates, Deputy Political Editor, Times, wrote a story today about Mays aide speaking to Fib Dems about support in votes. Means DUP deal must be looking sour, as we knew it would.

      Lib Dems tweeted denial, and then deleted the tweet, so it must be true.

      What an absolute mess.

    242. manandboy says:

      The Independence Campaign – how do we fight in a propaganda war with the British State.

      “How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political power to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics in the twentieth century .”
      (Aneurin Bevan)

      The answer lies in the ruling class persuading as many of the electorate as possible to hate a particular group in society, and then present yourself as the party who will save the country from that group.

      In Scotland that means hating the SNP, and voting Tory as the party who will save the nation from Independence, while turning a blind eye to the evil being perpetrated by the Tories themselves.

      This is the reality of life in the UK in 2017.

      Egged on daily by copious amounts of State propaganda, the majority vote Tory and keep the greedy and uncaring wealthy in power.
      The wealthy then deny the poor any pay rises, year after year,
      while cutting needed public services, with the money saved being distributed to the wealthy, whose desire for more and more wealth only increases.

      The Tories are determined to take everything from millions of ordinary people, thereby driving their income and living standards into the ground, while brainwashing them into voting Tory, the party to save England & Scotland from the threat of Jeremy Corbyn, the terrorist-loving socialist, and Nicola Sturgeon, the Independence-loving separatist who wants to destroy the Union.

      The sooner this comes to a head the better.

    243. Robert Louis says:

      Galamcennalath, and Dave McEwan Hill,

      I wholly agree with the points you make. The SNP has simply allowed the impetus of 2014 to die slowly.

      I have been giving this a lot of thought lately, and I do wonder, if their are just too many SNP MP’s/MP’s who have become ‘comfortable’, and are happy to just plod on, without independence. I have a feeling that is the case. Aside from people Like Joanna Cherry, MP, when was the last time you heard many of the SNP MP’s or MSP’s telling folk of the benefits of independence? A real tumbleweed scenario.

      The reason the GE became a simpl binary choice Labour v Tory (like it used to always be) was simply because the SNP did not make a powerful statement. I said it at the time, and will again, ‘stronger for Scotland’ as a message is just begging to be easily ignored by the media. Especially when Scotland is about to be dragged out of the EU against its wishes – I mean talk about a wide open goal.

      It is blander than bland, it is blandety bland, with bells on.

      Why wasn’t the message something strong, like We are the only party that can keep Scotland out of the Tory brexit mess, or something equally strong, such as we will fight to ensure Scots stay in the EU, since that is what Scotland voted for.

      As regards independence, the ONLY reason the unionists can bash on about it so much, is that the SNP are pointedly not even uttering the word, never mind spelling out WHY it is ESSENTIAL for SCotland.

      This lack of desire on the part of the SNP is akin to Labour abandoning socialism, or the Tories abandoning neoliberal capitalism. The SNP first and foremost need to stand up for independence. If they do, the people will follow – we saw that in 2014. It can NEVER work the other way around.

      If you wish to lead a country, you point the direction and say ‘That is where we are going’, you do not say ‘well, let’s wait and see, and mibbes we will mibbes we won’t, and so on’. Too many wets in the SNP HQ these days. Wayyy too many, careerists happy to sit back and let Scotland be screwed with brexit, but make the odd statement ‘condemming things’.

      Nobody in Scotland voted for ‘a good brexit deal’, they voted for staying in the EU, yet bizarrely the SNP seem obsessed with ‘securing a good brexit deal’. They have NO mandate to do so. None.

      The Scots politically are savvy, and they see through spin, from any party. Recently we were told for instance that the SNP didn’t vote for tail docking, but instead they voted for tail ‘shortening’, FFS. Malcolm Tucker would be proud.

      Speak up for Scottish independence and Scotland staying in the EU, or get ready to lose the next Scottish election. In those circumstances, I won’t even vote for them. I want independence, not cosy, easy, safe, ‘good management’.

    244. Brian Powell says:

      Robert Louis

      How does the SNP get its message out when none of the media will report it?

    245. Ghillie says:

      Gish Gallopers at it again = )

      Ref: Stewartb 24 June 2017 @ 12.10 pm on ‘Come On Arlene’

    246. Sarah says:

      @ Johnny 10.05

      For a man who said “I’m not a get up and go kind of person” or words to that effect, you seem to be doing pretty well at getting a group going!!

      Well done. I look forward to seeing Yes Renfrew in the news.

    247. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Happy independence day, at least to those who had the great good sense to go for it early. But Scotland will hopefully catch up soon!

    248. Breeks says:

      @ Galamcennalath 10:29

      “I totally agree. I joined the SNP just after IndyRef1. I remember the huge turn out at early branch meets. Enthusiasm filled the air. That is what drove the 2015 mega-slide.

      Much of that has been lost….”

      I would agree, but at the same time, could it have been sustained at near fever pitch for 3 years without any release? Not saying it couldn’t, but support for Indy hasn’t collapsed, and is now itching to get going.

      If you think about it, the YES campaign didn’t exist before the wording on the 2014 ballot was agreed. We didn’t know YES was the answer. We need to build that momentum again, and probably in a shorter timescale, but I am optimistic that we can.

      I don’t believe the SNP has lost its mojo, but there is a sculptured opinion forming that it has, surprise, surprise with our old friends in the media. Whether it has or it hasn’t, it’s a problem which only the SNP can remedy.

      It does worry me that people like Craig Murray can write opinion pieces about a more stimulating visionary campaign, an opinion which resonates with people, and yet there’s no reaction from the SNP except a press conference which takes ScotRef program back a technical stage. Does make you wonder whether the SNP is or isn’t listening to sage advice. If they’re not even listening, then be worried.

      Without being critical, and I mean that, don’t get all defensive SNP people, I have two primary areas of concern about the SNP.

      First, I don’t feel confident the SNP has anything in the tank to offer with regards to the media.

      And second, it troubles me that the Brexit referendum result in Scotland somehow morphed into a campaign to stay in the FreeMarketCustomsUnionEFTAEEA. When I voted, it was for staying in the EU, as a member. 28 EU nations, and one of them is Scotland. As of now, I think it’s still about EU membership, but Nicola does seem a wee bit trigger happy about compromise.

      This in turn creates a frustration. You see I know that the Brexit deal we are all waiting to see is not going to keep Scotland in the EU, so right here and right now, I’m not in any conciliatory mood to wait a year or so to get upset about Brexit. I’m upset now. Lots of other people are too. What are we waiting for? I’ve seen enough. I can start being stubborn and intransigent right here, right now.

      But patience mon braves. Nicola know she has our votes in the bag, but our votes alone didn’t do it in 2014. We need momentum changing No voters into Yes voters, and it is likely Brexit is going to do precisely that, but a large body of people need to come to that conclusion under their own steam.

      It’s interesting to watch the Phantom Power movies. People who are moving to YES are shifting their allegiances now, because they have time and space to think. It’s not a campaign that winning them over, if anything, it’s simply respecting them as intelligent people.

      51% remember. Night becomes day.

      Before we line up to criticise the lacklustre campaign, we need to remember the media are going to nitpick, smear and distort the campaign as soon as it gets launched. It a long way from a perfect situation, but what kind of bulletproof campaign has enough resilience to survive the BritNat media?

      The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of this Declaration of Arbroath inspired open letter to Michel Barnier with hundreds of thousands of signatures on it demanding that M. Barnier inserts a condition on Scottish Broadcasting into the Brexit deal. It’s a slim chance, but with enthusiasm and commitment, I can see that working, but ONLY if there is a reciprocal demand coming from Holyrood. Europe has said that the devolved governements must be listened to. Well, when it comes to broadcasting, it’s our SNP government that needs to be pressing for Free Scottish Broadcasting.

    249. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Since I don’t do twitter, all I can say to the Rev asking if Murdo Fraser or Adam Tompkins have condemned the singing of the Famine Song yet – they probably have; the singers seemed distinctly out of tune.

      That said, the basic drum and bass line was “off” which didn’t help. But, what would I know, I don’t like the song, but, as a wind-up of Celtic fans, it certainly hits the spot.

      Slightly off-topic on this, The Remainers’ latest spoof of ‘500 miles’, “500 pounds” is brilliant. Hopefully, somebody more technically savvy than I can post a link

    250. Ghillie says:

      Worth bearing in mind that the SNP are THE political party who have brought us this close to Independence for Scotland and who WILL achieve our Independence.

      The SNP’s raison d’etre is Independence.

      Looking back,there is not a word said or action taken by our First Minister that I would have had her change in that moment. I am so proud of Nicola Sturgeon’s statesmanship.

      Events on the British Isles and Worldwide have moved at an alarming rate, political situations have been like shifting sands.

      Yet in my opinion the SNP are still performing consistantly in the very best interests of the people of Scotland, our European friends and other folk who may not always be with us and even at times with the welfare of the people of England, North of Ireland and Wales in mind too.

      I think they know exactly what they are doing. And this a long game that they will win.

      But everyone who truly wants our Nation to be Independent again will have to pull in the same direction. Preferably with a little less moaning and a bit more constructive imput.

      Sadly there is no magic wand that any of us can wave to gain Scotland’s freedom overnight. Oh I wish!

      And aren’t we blessed that our Scottish Government, lead by the SNP, supported often by the Greens and even at times by others, is doing such a good job for us all everyday. And that in the face of such utter shite from the usual suspects.

      Keep the faith folks. Keep the creativity and optimism going 🙂

    251. Yalta says:

      For anyone mad at Highland Spring, watch Manon des Sources with Emmanuelle Beart, in which a girl takes revenge on the village which hounded her father to death.

      Only water worth the bottle is also French; Badoit.

    252. Robert Graham says:

      Since the Election , All independence supporting websites have had a vocal influx of Glass Half Empty Moaners .
      OK for some it wasnt a great result ,but getting more MPs than all of the Unionist parties combined , is a bloody good show , so far Nicola & the SNP management have called it right ,
      By all means carry on griping and Moaning , i am sure thats what Nicola needs right now ,who needs the MSM when people on our own side seem more than happy to step in when the Unionists have a break ,
      In short get a f/n GRIP .

    253. schrodingers cat says:

      Breeks
      And second, it troubles me that the Brexit referendum result in Scotland somehow morphed into a campaign to stay in the FreeMarketCustomsUnionEFTAEEA. When I voted, it was for staying in the EU, as a member. 28 EU nations, and one of them is Scotland. As of now, I think it’s still about EU membership, but Nicola does seem a wee bit trigger happy about compromise.
      ————————–

      1. without independence we are defo out of eu and efta

      2.62% voted to retain our eu membership deal. that deal no longer exists, the rebate and the opt outs are now history, even for the uk.
      the 62% gave nicola a mandate to remain in the single market (efta/eea) but any deal nicola cut for scotland to re enter the EU would need an euref in an indy scotland to give her the mandate to agree.

      3. we are about to leave the eu, remainers are also now history, at best they can now only be re joiners, it is time to rebrand

    254. Footsoldier says:

      Off topic and sorry if discussed earlier but I see the Queen is opening the new section of the Forth & Clyde Canal tomorrow at the Kelpies and will name it Queen Elizabeth II Canal. Why not just Queen Elizabeth Canal?

      This is historically inaccurate in Scotland, and those who made this decision are really trying to dilute Scotland’s history or they are completely ignorant of it otherwise why would they do it?

      Let’s hope it can be changed in time.

    255. Alba Jock says:

      Sorry for being late! Don’t you know we are nearly bankrupt in Scotland, how can we build 50,000 houses. C’mon! Just been banned from the BBC from commenting on the financial situation of Scotland and their news on it. I asked for the readers to actually stop wearing rose tinted glasses and read the whole piece by the BBC! Which was for 2015/16 and mentioned the prospects of slow growth in the future years.

      Now go to BBC England anywhere you want and see the mess their in? So if Scotland is bankrupt then they are really screwed. Again the population reads what they want and we don’t get our say! Surprise Surprise!

      Nicola build the houses and at the same time make sure you get good mortgage terms. Before they increase the interest rates and fully apply austerity and Brexit on this wonderful land!

    256. Big Jock says:

      Shouldn’t be Queen anything. It should be something relevant to the area. Don’t get me started , I live in Maddiston just outside Falkirk. I am a republican despite being in the SNP and being told we must respect the Royals….yer arse!

    257. ben madigan says:

      @ Socrates MacSporran who asked for a link The Remainers’ latest spoof of ‘500 miles’, “500 pounds”

      here you are, together with a few nice anti-CON-DUP cartoons
      Enjoy everybody

      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2017/06/29/dup-con-deal-all-fuckedup/

    258. Dan Huil says:

      I see representives from the cesspit that is the City of London are going cap-in-hand to Brussels hoping to get some kind of special deal. How desperate can these britnats get?! I hope the EU tells them to F-off.

    259. Alba Jock says:

      Big Jock says:
      4 July, 2017 at 1:23 pm
      Shouldn’t be Queen anything. It should be something relevant to the area. Don’t get me started , I live in Maddiston just outside Falkirk. I am a republican despite being in the SNP and being told we must respect the Royals….yer arse!

      Well said Big Jock! First the new bridge then the canal? What next?

      It has been too long a comin’ but its not far away. I used to call the Queen Elizabeth 1 of Scotland, but, with all the recent years of lying and cheating to the Scottish people it will be President anybody for me I’m afraid.

      Alba gu’ brath.

    260. Johnny says:

      Sarah @ 11:05am:

      Thank you! It’s kind of against my usual impulses…but I guess I am trying to take the attitude that someone has to get it started.

      I just hope that there is some response – even a coterie of 3 or 4 people in the local area to get things started would be good.

      Already have a personal Twitter, but have also started one for the group too and will hopefully pick up some interest via that means or this. Other means of promotion a bit beyond me as yet.

    261. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      They’re going to get told the SAME THING the EU told Cameron prior to the EU Referendum and that they’ve been saying ever since (although admittedly not reported by BBC/MSM @Dan Huil says at 1:31 pm:

      Free Movement of people = Free Movement of goods = Free Movementh of services (INCLUDING FINANCIAL SERVICES) = Free Movement of CAPITAL

      Accept ALL 4 or get nothing.

      No cherry picking.

      So essentially it will be F-off

      Wonder how the EU will treat them following Gove and his “Taking back control” of U.K. 6 and 12 mile waters (as a wee propaganda move in angling for his personal ambition of the PMs job and also as a Tory vote winner in the event of another GE this year).

      May be potentially a HUGE F-OFF

    262. starlaw says:

      Taking back control of U.K. fishing waters. Does this mean Irish fishing boats can now net Atlantic Salmon in Irish waters thus wiping out the Scottish Salmon angling estates.

    263. Brian Powell says:

      starlaw

      What’s the background to that, I didn’t know there was an agreement no to take Atlantic salmon.

    264. Brian Powell says:

      Big Jock

      The SNP didn’t say you should respect the royals the position is that the queen would be Head of State, as in Canada etc, but that could change after Independence.

    265. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Sam Coates, Deputy Political Editor, Times, wrote a story today about Mays aide speaking to Fib Dems about support in votes. Means DUP deal must be looking sour, as we knew it would.”

      Valerie, when Farron resigned, citing the controversy about his views on gay sex, I immediately donned my tin-foil hat and wondered if he had been approached by the Tories about a deal but had thought it a coalition too far. Then I wondered if he had really been pushed because other LibDems were less scrupulous and wanted to keep their options open in the near future.

      But men like Cable and Carmichael wouldn’t do such a thing, would they?

    266. Dr Jim says:

      The Scots are politically savvy: No they’re not or we wouldn’t have lost the referendum

      I’m not going to vote for the SNP because:
      So you’ll vote for WHO? Then you’ll get what you deserve!

      In all its glory the Scottish disease is its own people again
      Quick let’s snatch glorious defeat from the jaws of victory so’s we can just keep on arguing because that’s a whole lot easier than getting behind something and fighting for it

      Why do the English win at stuff, because they’d support a monkey if meant winning, coz that’s the important bit

      Our own people just rip my knitting at times, they couldnae support surgical stockings withoot moanin aboot the colour

      Ach! Nae wonder Ah drink!

    267. crazycat says:

      @ Valerie at 11.20

      For posterity (ie, for when they change their minds/deny everything), here’s a Guardian article about talks between the LDs and the Tories:

      https://archive.is/EaMuN

    268. Socrates MacSporran says:

      aul highlaner, ben madigan

      Many thanks for the link. Love that line: “We’ll see that every orange band gets golden flutes”.

    269. McDuff says:

      Breeks
      I agree, we voted to STAY in the EU not to accept anything less. I fear we are being driven down a cul-de-sac.

    270. Thepnr says:

      @Breeks

      Think it’s worth saying that although I don’t always agree with you. You do post some interesting stuff that can inspire and it has proven so as in your idea for a new webite.

      @Scottish Renewables

      Well done you in picking up the challange. I know what it means to give up many hours of your time to the cause of Independence and am very grateful that talented people as yourself will do so as well.

      @Johnny

      Another hero to me and all that support Independence, you tell all on here I don’t think I can do that but now have put in motion exactly that you doubted you could do. So well done for even getting this off the ground.

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      I believe it was yourself that provided Johnny with the knowledge and advise he needed. So big pat on the back too.

      This has all happened on one thread in just a couple of days on Wings so I believe it shows what as a group we are capable of. I’ve hung around here for a while now but just because of Independence but also because I think I can understand Scottish people better by reading the btl posts.

      I have learned one thing, supporters of Independence are more tolerant of others, more kind in their outlook and more radical in their vision of the future.

      Compare with the OO, DUP and Tories. I want NONE of that here.

    271. Footsoldier says:

      Will this appear in the Scottish media tomorrow?

      “Nearly 40 per cent of primary students in England fail to reach standards in reading, writing and maths.”

    272. Why do the DUP still sit in the opposition benches at UK parliament,

      when Libdem supported Tory in 2010 they sat with them.

    273. schrodingers cat says:

      McDuff says:

      Breeks
      I agree, we voted to STAY in the EU not to accept anything less. I fear we are being driven down a cul-de-sac.

      ——————–

      fine, so when wos prints 250k new WBB’s will you correct all of the places where it says Remain with tipex and write re-join??

      1. for all eu supporters (i am also) we are leaving the eu, very shortly, without independence, we will not be in the eu for a very long time

      2. for all the republicans (i am too) without independence, you will never see a scottish republic. FACT.

      the snp already had this discussion many years ago and those republicans, like jim sillars, who could not accept this, left.

      this is an indy site, not a republican or an eu site.
      indyref2 will be run on an independent scotland immediately applying(and being accepted immediately) to become members of efta/eea.

      the snp do support re joining the eu and getting rid of brenda and once scotland is independent you will be offered the option of doing both, probably by referendum. but not before we are independent.

      we just took a kicking because the yoons deliberately mixed up and confused the electorate about brexit and indyref2. that wont happen again

    274. starlaw says:

      There is an agreement. for Irish fishermen not to take Atlantic Salmon, think it was agreed in the late sixties or early eighties. Fishermen from Aranmore and Burtonport felt hard done to by it

    275. Roger says:

      @galamcennalath says:
      4 July, 2017 at 9:33 am

      Links …
      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/scotland-and-the-myth-of-the-corbyn-bounce/

      ” This lack of a ‘Corbyn bounce’ in Scotland … “

      This article is hearsay and opinion based, not facts. The data that is beginning to appear shows clearly that there was a significant Corbyn Bounce in Scotland.

      https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/kug7qzc4lh/InternalResults_170615_VoteSwitchers_W.pdf

      15% of SNP 2015 voters who voted in 2017 switched to Labour.

      11% SNP switched to Tory.

      The Corbyn Bounce in Scotland was masked by a similar number of more BritNat orientated Labour folks switching to Tory.

      It is preferable that SNP switch to Labour rather than Tory, IMO, because they are likely to come back on the Indy issue.”

      Oh I thin you’ll find there is a lot of fact in it. 23% of 2015 SNP voters did not vote in 2017
      Of the 77% who did, 11% voted Tory, 15% voted Labour – or, out of total 2015 SNP voters, 8.5% voted Tory and 11.5% voted Labour. The biggest loss was the 23% of 2015 SNP voters who didn’t vote at all.
      36% of SNP voters voted Leave – making Indyref2 ALL about the EU might not have had a great appeal to them. The SNP didn’t lose seats in glasgow because people voter Labour, they lost seats because SNP voters stayed at home. And they only lost 6 seats to Labour, they lost 12 to the Tories – the point of the article is that it is the TORIES who are the coming challenge. If there was a ‘bounce’, it was a Tory bounce, not a Corbyn one.
      You based a lot of your argument on what the opinio polls were saying before the elecions – we all know that opinion polls in recent years have been crap, you can’t base anything on them – only election results can be taken seriously. The Labour vote in Scotland was only up 2.8%, and the SNP lost seat because the SNP vote stayed at home. Oh, and they lost most seats to the Tories, especially in the north east – which was the most Leave voting part of Scotland (esp fishermen) – NOT because people stayed at home in the NE, but because the Tory vote was up. What the article is arguing is that the focus should be on INDEPENDENCE and that the real coming challenge is the TORIES, the real party of the ‘BritNats’.
      Of course it’s true that the Yes movement is more than the SNP, but the SNP winning seats is the best, probably only, way to get Indyref2.

    276. mike cassidy says:

      Footsoldier 4.03

      I’m 65 and I seem to have been hearing this “kids can’t read or count or…”the way we could all my adult life.

      Every generation seems to feel the need to say it –

      like they feel the need to say it was better in my day…

      For example, check out this article from 14 years ago about a Channel 4 experiment in tough-love education based on 1950s standards – which were, of course, much higher blah blah.

      http://archive.is/SLG6E

      And here’s a lovely quote to whet your appetite.

      ” He remembers fondly the day when the entire school – all 850 boys – was given two strokes of the cane after a snowball broke a window. “We didn’t mind. When, at assembly, the headmaster referred to the ‘exercise’ he had had, a great cheer went up. ”

    277. meg merrilees says:

      Socrates

      Here’s the link for the £500/miles song

      twitter.com/NickKehoe007/status/880682219915927553

      Dave mc Ewan hill posted it higher up this thread.

    278. mike cassidy says:

      Further to my 4.46

      The definitive exposure of “the good old days” nonsense was Geoffrey Pearson’s “Hooligans” published in 1983.

      I’d actually forgotten the ‘heights of thatcherism’ significance of its publication.

      Read a good, contemporary review of it here.

      http://archive.is/ko276

    279. Breeks says:

      schrodingers cat says:

      1. without independence we are defo out of eu and efta”….

      Yes. Therein lies the powerful advocacy FOR Independence, specifically so we are NOT dragged out the EU against our democratically expressed sovereign will.

      Westminster has no mandate to remove us, Europe has no mechanism to evict us. If we remain true to our own Sovereignty, Scotland stays in Europe. If we kneel before Westminster and leave Europe when they do, then Scotland, not Westminster, has sold itself out and not for the first time, pissed its sovereignty up against the wall.

    280. Thepnr says:

      @mike cassidy

      That review was well worth reading. Nothing much has changed then, right wing press still lying for their billionaire backers ect.

      Maybe more of us now though haveT learned from that. Don’t want to make the same again and again and again…

    281. Thepnr says:

      @Breeks

      After praising you it’s time to disagree again. Unless the EU offers Scotland a place now to remain. Can you explain to me how we can remain in if the UK leaves?

      If they’re out then we too surely? With no guarantee of anything in the future, so best to keep our options open is it not for something we do not knew yet what the result will be.

      In fact the very best I believe we could hope for now is that the EU categorically state we would be welcome after we voted for Independence. Failing that EEA/EFTA should remain as an option.

      Before a referendum happens or if the UK leaves the EU before then we will likely get nothing from the EU. Unfortunately the UK and the rest of the world seem to believe that they can evict us along with them. I don’t hear many shouting about so far anyway.

      The only thing that can change that? Then Scottish voters must exercise the power of their sovereignty to vote to leave the UK and remain in the EU.

      If they vote NOT to leave the UK then the Scottish voter will have exercised their sovereignty by choosing to remain part of the UK. Sovereignty it seems works both for and against us.

      It’s the people’s choice at the end of the day.

    282. Valerie says:

      @Breeks

      I sincerely hope so. I am hoping that, because the SG have made their position clear – protecting Scotland’s jobs etc., that something happens for us to Remain.

      If we are dragged out, as we know, the impacts are catastrophic for us, in an economy which is only just standing still. The UK is now the worst performing advanced economy in the world, never mind out of the 28.

      Every piece of investment and asset down south is fleeing, and if we wait too much longer, that spreads here, if it hasn’t already started.

      The crucial motor trade is today’s story of disaster.

      Scotland could be a magnet for all this, if only.

    283. schrodingers cat says:

      Breeks says:
      4 July, 2017 at 5:34 pm

      schrodingers cat says:

      1. without independence we are defo out of eu and efta”….

      Yes. Therein lies the powerful advocacy FOR Independence, specifically so we are NOT dragged out the EU against our democratically expressed sovereign will.

      Westminster has no mandate to remove us, Europe has no mechanism to evict us. If we remain true to our own Sovereignty, Scotland stays in Europe. If we kneel before Westminster and leave Europe when they do, then Scotland, not Westminster, has sold itself out and not for the first time, pissed its sovereignty up against the wall.

      —————————
      I think PNR has summed it up breeks, when the uk leaves we leave too. end of

      i would like to think there was a legal case for us to not leave, based on our sovereignty or national desire, etc but there wont be.

      but a heap of bad economic news due to leaving single market might convince folk to vote yes in indyref2.

    284. Breeks says:

      Thepnr says:
      4 July, 2017 at 6:16 pm
      @Breeks

      After praising you it’s time to disagree again. Unless the EU offers Scotland a place now to remain. Can you explain to me how we can remain in if the UK leaves?

      The EU was offering Scotland a place, they asked for a sovereign commitment to stay, simply to be a Nation, and offered us the holding pen status to facilitate the transition from being a constituent part of UK entity into a distinct and sovereign Nation state capable of shouldering the membership criteria.

      “If they want to stay in the EU, they can stay in the EU.” – Guy Verhoftstadt discussing Scotland.

    285. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Roger at 4.30

      You are misreading this. Of course there was a Corbyn bounce. Labour was polling at between 12 and 14% across all polls before the GE but polled nearly 26% at the election. What Labour got at the last election has nothing to do with this. Labour put in significant increase of its vote in A&B, Moray, Angus and other unlikely places perhaps actually costing us AS. There was of course a Tory bounce as well. Nobody is disputing that and a poor turnout of SNP votes which can be partly blamed on a very uninpiring SNP campaign. The SNP allowed the Tory V Labour contest to dominate the election.

    286. schrodingers cat says:

      stay in the eu…………….? grief, how can we stay if we have left???

      we will not be independent before the uk leaves the eu.

      The eu has said an indy scotland will need to re join via article 49, for obvious reasons.

      the process would be very quick, no doubt, but that is the process.

    287. Thepnr says:

      @Breeks

      I know he said that, where was it reported in the UK? On twitter as far as I know if you can find a UK link that would be greatly appreciated. As for on the telly 🙂 🙂

      Guy Verhoftstadt as much as you may wish it be so does not run the EU, he does not speak for all of Europe. He is an MEP, admittedly a senior one one who is leader of the Liberal and Alliance group in the EU.

      A statement from Guy in the UK media carries as much weight it seems as one from Alyn Smith of the SNP does. Maybe an exaggeration but the point stands. He is not speaking for the EU, he is giving an opinion. His opinion.

      @geoo

      Good link, there’s is an example of the SNP sticking up for themselves and taking no shit. Glasgow City Council now have some power and balls too it seems.

      A spokesman for Glasgow City Council said: “The European Convention on Human Rights enshrines the rights to peaceful assembly and freedom of expression.

      “However, these rights are not absolute. They must be balanced by the responsibility to ensure the rights of others are not infringed.

      “As with all public processions, there will be a debrief involving Police Scotland, the organiser and the council.”

      He added: “The council will take into account any issues of public disorder, antisocial behaviour or damage to property resulting from the procession.

      “It will also take into consideration any evidenced issues and, if a future procession notification is received from the organiser, the likelihood of any restriction or prohibition may be greater.”

    288. Breeks says:

      i would like to think there was a legal case for us to not leave, based on our sovereignty or national desire, etc but there wont be.

      but a heap of bad economic news due to leaving single market might convince folk to vote yes in indyref2.

      Well if that’s the insipid SNP script, then the SNP will be doing it without my vote. If they’ve surrendered the principle of Scottish sovereignty already, then why waste everybody’s time over a Brexit deal that you’re not even going to fight about until afterwards?

      I’ll save my vote for somebody else who knows what the feck they’re doing, actually has a plan, understands what Scottish sovereignty actually means, and at the very least can recognise when they’ve crossed the sovereign threshold for actually securing sovereign Independence.

      Feckin hell. The Unionist bigots of the Orange Order are shaming us all, thumping their drums inside Council Offices championed by the BBC and interviewed on the fecking Radio FFS while the SNP is sitting on a hillside making daisy chains and staring off into the distance far, far away. “Aye, maybe some bad economic news will make the difference”. I despair.

      This is feckin Scotland. I was raised with parents who worked all their lives and never owned feck all, every drop of our oil getting stolen, our factories shut down, steel making lost, shipbuilding smashed, fishing dismantled, coal mining dismantled, Hosiery business sold of to China, our Regiments shut down, our railways removed, your Worldly goods sold off and wages seized if you couldn’t pay your poll tax, and sequestrated in abstentia for money I didn’t fecking owe in a country with justice you can’t afford. But hey, who knows, maybe the poverty of Brexit will nudge us over the hill.

      Europe! Please adopt me. I am stateless. I come from a land without the courage to exist. It won’t even fight for the right to speak on its own airwaves.

      France. Please take me. Germany? Italy? Anybody? I can start right away. I won’t be any trouble. Board and lodgings will suffice.

    289. crazycat says:

      O/T – no surprise at the BBC:

      https://archive.is/AZZl3

      The Magic Roundabout again.

    290. Thepnr says:

      @Breeks

      You give in too easy. Thought it was gonna be a push over and now are throwing in the towel because you can’t handle the twelve rounds?

      You’ve been positive, and you’ve started something today so take heart from that, someone has listened to you and will set up the kind of website that you envisaged. I’d think you would have been pleased with that.

      So we all took a sucker punch and hit the deck, how quickly you get back on your feet says a lot. Bounce right back up again, nobody promised Independence tomorrow and once you joined this fight you were part of it.

      Mibbee not today but there will be a time when this country will be Independent. Only if we remain standing on our feet at the end of every round in the fight to get there.

      We’re being battered senseless by the media onslaught, but we can fight back. Believe me we already are, Johnny and Scottish Renewables are another two small cogs in a big machine.

      You’ve played a part, don’t get down and continue to play a part.

    291. Brian Powell says:

      There is a lot of discussion about bounces and what the SNP did or didn’t do, but when it comes down to it voters have got to make some effort to.

      Independence isn’t an election, if people in Scotland want to decide their own future then they’ve got to do a bit of work, if they want Scotland to be run from Westminster by whichever UK party is there then they need to live with the consequences.

      They can still complain but nobody in Westminster will be listening unless you are a number for the particular party in charge there.

      The FM made it clear it will be about the kind of country we want Scotland to be, without independence Scotland will be whatever Westminster decides it will be.

    292. Contrary says:

      Right. I want to test this idea here, I know it will be shot down if it’s a crap one:

      What does anyone think about the idea of having a council-run radio channel – I’m talking from the perspective of for Glasgow here – for news, weather, traffic, local events, plays etc more than any music. Localised radio, could be used to promote tourist stuff, tell us if there are any events happening, tell us what roads are closed, tell us the classes and facilities in leisure centres, if there are any planned works locally etc. Older people that have difficulty getting out could find out what is happening down the street, feel more included in the community.

      And how about an hour or two slot every day for pro-Indy issues – could funding come from the campaign coffers of the SNP to get radio stations up and running, with the caveat they allow pro-indy sections on?

      Radio isn’t as glamorous as tv, but surely cheaper to set up and run, and if it is a useful, entertaining broadcasting medium, there will be people listening.

      Any pros or cons? Should I even propose it to councillors?

    293. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks –

      Hear hear hear hear hear ye loud and clear.

      At times it’s frustrating beyond belief.

      Mind you, there are signs, eh? Always wee signs that change is coming. If the refreshed GCC even discusses the *possibility* of curtailing OO marches, the implications are huge.

      Not necessarily ‘pleasant’ short-term, but huge all the same.

      😉

    294. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Contrary.

      Maybe you should have a look at this:-

      http://www.sunnyg.com/about.html

      Here’s the home page:-

      http://www.sunnyg.com/

    295. HandandShrimp says:

      The hatz are cool 🙂

    296. Iain says:

      Why does not the people of Scotland wise up to the fact that the uk is walking away from 60% of its markets and is busy comiting economic suicide.
      Independence is the only possible way.

    297. Breeks says:

      No thepnr, I despair at an SNP government that cannot see an open goal right in front of it.

      I’m sick and tired banging on about the media and the impact it’s having on the struggle for independence while the SNP doesn’t even publicly acknowledge the problem.

      I’m sick and tired banging on about Sovereignty when it should be the leadership of the pro Independence Party in government banging on to me about sovereignty.

      I have my own ideas about Independence and how to get there. I have a lot of time what Craig Murray suggests. I also have a lot of time G A Ponsonby, Prof John Robertson, and back in the day, the Common Weal was saying a lot of things that resonated with me. Where is the SNP’s vision? It’s not me who shut down and turned the lights out on YES.

      The day after defeat for YES, I was advocating a plebiscite so the Scottish public could fill in the blanks of the mysterious “Vow”, and declare which further powers Scotland wanted. That’s declare mind you, not grovel and ask for. In the event, we didn’t even grovel, but turned to look the other way when the Unionist shafted Scotland and laughed all the way to the bank. Aye, the Vows been delivered… We might still have lost 2014, but we could have salvaged broadcasting from the wreckage.

      I hoped in the SNP we were electing a wildcat, but it seems what we’ve got is a beached whale. They’re not stalking Independence, quartering the distance, shortening the odds. I just don’t know what the plan is. Independence by osmosis if we stand close enough to a No voter? The SNP seems to be trying to win a campaign by not losing it, and they’re just leaving their popular support confused, exasperated and listless.

      Brexit was a watershed. From day 1, everybody understood staying in the EU was not possible while staying with the UK and so Scotland had a binary choice. Staying in the EU is the Independence option, staying in the UK is the Unionist option. Nice things happen to Scotland committing itself to the EU. Nasty things happen to Scotland committing itself to the UK and Brexit. Great! There’s black, and there’s white. In a two horse race, we are sorted.

      But no. Suddenly we’re compromising. We want to investigate a soft marshmallow type Brexit for Scotland, a “middle way”. We start proceeding on the bizarre basis that all the soft Brexit options which the deluded fools at Westminster thought they could get from Europe, are the same soft Brexit options which the deluded fools at Holyrood think they can get from Europe.

      Terrific. Let’s take a clear cut binary choice between Independence in Europe, and desolation in Mordor, and muddy the issues so we forfeit the clear and cast iron case for Independence, and tacitly accept that despite a powerful majority from the sovereign people of Scotland advocating Scotland stays in the EU, we choose instead to accept the fires of Mordor, and once it’s something we can no longer get out of, hope it turns out to be beastly and depressing. We are choosing to be Orcs, but hoping for sunshine.

      It’s not too late. We still have an open goal in Europe. For as long as we are in, hope of staying in survives. We were there, in the box before an open goal, but for some reason the SNP has backed off and retreated to the half way line. Don’t ask me why, I don’t know, but the goal is still open. Can we not just work our way back to where we were, and just give the ball a wee tap over the line?

      Just do it. Do the sovereignty thing. We know the dafties are going to kick up fk, but we can deal with those dafties as a sovereign country or suffer them indefinitely as the price Scotland pays for Unionism.

      Right now the SNP is taking the lazy way. They’re letting events make the case for Independence when actually, that’s their job.

    298. Contrary says:

      Thank you Brian Doonthetoon! I’ll have a listen to that.

    299. ben madigan says:

      @ Robert Louis who wrote “Nobody in Scotland voted for ‘a good brexit deal’, they voted for staying in the EU, yet bizarrely the SNP seem obsessed with ‘securing a good brexit deal’. They have NO mandate to do so. None.”

      As far as I understand it FM Sturgeon is trying represent the views of all the people of Scotland as she is FM for all. She is attempting to reach a compromise that reflects the views of Scottish Remainers and Leavers e.g. inside the Single market and Customs Union, outside the EU.

      The Scottish Govt’s paper on this (whatever its value) and her insistence on having a seat at the table of the EU negotiations have, as might have been expected, got short shrift from the Conservatives at Westminster.And as far as I am personally concerned, this approach has reached a dead end.

      So our FM opens up to the Independence movement (yes, Business for Scotland, Women for Independence, cultural associations and so on).
      This is an admission that a vision is needed for Scotland. It must lie beyond the legalities of Brexit and tying Indyref2 to what happens in the EU negotiations.
      Because if the UK remains in the Single market and the Customs Union there will not be a big enough “material change” to justify Indyref2

      Many, many sections of Scottish society will need to believe in the vision of what Scotland can be in order to support Independence. So all sorts of associations, clubs, interests,etc have to be mobilized.

      For example I attended an 1916 centenary exhibition in Dublin last year which was organised by the irish government.
      The first thing that amazed me was the capillary reach out to all facets of irish society of the time. Political, music, dance,literary, artistic,language, agricultural, urban working and professional classes were linked in the pre-1916 Rising push for irish independence. There was also reach out to gallant allies of Ireland in Europe and to the irish diaspora, particularly in America.

      Here’s just one extraordinary example
      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/arnold-bax-in-memoriam-1916/

      In my view, Scotland has to mobilise to create and foster the same interest and conviction in all layers of Scottish society and its diaspora if she really wants Independence. Then she will be unstoppable.

    300. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Online radio is dead easy and very cheap to run. I can be sitting here at my computer reading posts and typing up stuff while listening to Argyll Independent Radio at the same time.

    301. Shinty says:

      Breeks – I understand your point about our sovereignty and I have to say thanks to Robert Peffers I understand more of what it means to all of us. But the truth is joe public think the Declaration of Arbroath is nothing but a historic document. They have no concept of its meaning today,tomorrow and always.

      Just ask 10 or 20 folk next time you’re out and about.

    302. Tam the Bam. says:

      Was in Dunoon last week Dave…on my round to Ardentinny/Glenfinart for a wee trudge.Remember some ‘hairy’
      nights in The Harmony Bar many moons ago (tell a lie…I
      remember bugger all…muckit’ foo!).

    303. Tinto Chiel says:

      @ben madigan: love the idea of “capillary reach” but worry about the sclerotic Unionism affecting our body politic.

      The Arnold Bax thing I found particularly interesting: I really liked his music but knew he had been almost completely excluded from The Third Programme/Radio3 in the past. This had puzzled me until quite recently.

      Quite simply, I realised his sympathy for Ireland and the wider Celtic culture it represented meant he had to be marginalised. He often composed on our own West Coast, which can’t have helped.

      Isn’t the BBC great, pop pickers?

    304. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Dave McEwan Hill + Breeks.

      Can I refer yooz to my post at:-
      https://wingsoverscotland.com/weak-foundations/comment-page-1/#comment-2281528
      regarding media?
      Contrary has already picked up on it.

      Could we not do similar in the cities and conurbations, appealing to the local audience in each area?

      Jist an ehdeeah, like…

    305. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      schrodingers cat, Thepnr,

      I have to support Breeks on this one. It was one thing for the SG, as a responsible devolved administration, to put a compromise offer on the table (and one they were sure would be rejected out-of-hand to boot) but quite another to allow the thing to become an “on-off-on” business that has simply confused people no end.

      And it hasn’t helped that from day one this has been used by some indy supporters to punt this EEA/EFTA thing as a desirable end goal all of their own devising, and yet somehow maintain that it was mandated by the EURef. Well, it damn well wasn’t, and still isn’t. This has simply amplified the confusion.

      There isn’t even any evidence that some such compromise will appeal to a broader range of support, if that is the background intention.

      Paying about the same, with the same obligations but without any of the rights or “control” offers no guarantee that it will please anyone at all. One foot on the boat and one foot on the shore. =glug=

      Even now we keep getting beset by woolly thinking on this issue. It is our right to be consulted on our future as a whole before our sovereignty is transgressed one iota further. That is the only ground we should be fighting on. Nothing less.

      Yet some people just seem to want to give up and retreat without any resistance whatever. Abandon the strong defensive position and take to the fields, hoping for better days some other time. Jeez!

      We may rightly, I believe, count on the EU to do whatever administrative conjuring it may need to keep us on board, but we must first show serious willing. They will only bother themselves if we demonstrate that we actually believe in ourselves. If we just whinge from the sidelines and slink away from this, they will simply shrug their shoulders and move on.

      It’s your (and our) call. I’m for standing my ground and seeing this issue through to the end.

    306. Thepnr says:

      @Breeks

      You’ve posted so many great posts here on Wings and I have rarely acknowledged them but you can be sure I appreciated them as many others have and indeed said so.

      This last post is just the latest example, you really did come back fighting and have hit the target right away. I agree with all that you are saying in this post and accept that this should be the stated position of the SNP and that it’s not with regard to remaining a full member of the EU.

      I believe though that there is a reasonable explanation for that and it’s just my opinion. Maybe Nicola Sturgeon felt she had to compromise as she knew many who supported SNP also voted for leave?

      Maybe she also thought hard about a relationship between the rUK and Scotland after Independence with Scotland in the EU and rUK out? I would never rule out any option that kept us in the single market and gave us the 4 basic rules including free movement. So BOTH EEA or EFTA or the two together would be better than nothing in my opinion.

      All or nothing appears to be yours.

      Anyway, you put up a great defence of your argument. I’ll stick with my opinion that we will be out of the EU along with the UK even if we have a referendum before the end of the current Holyrood term.

      I know we’re both on the same side as I too want to remain fully in the EU. If not I’d be willing to compromise and settle for something less in the short term if it helped gain Scotland’s Independence and I ask you this. In the event of another referendum would you still vote Yes even it it meant membership not of the EU but the EEA?

      Independence is not about Europe, currency or any other single issue. It’s about the right to govern ourselves. Nothing else should matter, neither should political affiliation, left or right.

      This is why the likes of all that post on Wings can agree or disagree, let’s discuss these issues and get them out in the open. At the end of the day though, at least for me, it is not about any single issue, be that currency, monarchy, the EU, left or right political affiliation. None of them matter one iota unless you’re already Independent.

      Your focus on broadcasting is what will do it for us, maybe you and I should spend more time talking about that. I think that could be much more productive in the long run.

      People need to be informed.

      “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”
      – Harlan Ellison

    307. galamcennalath says:

      ben madigan says

      Scotland has to mobilise to create and foster the same interest and conviction in … its diaspora if she really wants Independence.

      Agreed. That’s a card we really haven’t been playing.

      Surely Yanks of Scottish descent should be sympathetic in the same way Irish Americans were? If not, why not? What is the communications failure?

      Or, Canada, Australia, and NZ where so many Scots went because of conditions in Scotland. Canada in particular is full of the ‘children of the clearances’.

      Or, Scots working across the EU. They have a very particular reason to want to retain EU rights!

      It isn’t really the role of the SNP nor Scottish Government. The needs to be an organisation to promote our nationhood and current woes among our diaspora.

    308. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Tam the Bam.at 9.50

      Ah. The Harmony Bar, where knickers were the exception rather than the rule (and some of them were on US submariners off the Polaris).

    309. heedtracker says:

      Right now the SNP is taking the lazy way. They’re letting events make the case for Independence when actually, that’s their job.

      Well join them and get stuck in! Unionist opposition’s decided its all over for the SNP. They think they can bring down a minority SNP Scots gov in 2021 and that will be that for a generation. BBC Scotland are going to make sure of it and having been planning it for the last 2 years. By 2021, tory beeb will have made SNP Scots gov so unpopular, FM Colonel Ruth will ascend to her rightful place as the first ever tory fuckwit leader of the greater English region of Scotland.

      So what good is moaning away about the SNP unless you get involved?

      We all know Brexit is making us poorer. The austerity decade’s meant only the rich, the middle and upper middle classes have got richer. Everyone else is much worse off today than a decade ago.

      Brexit is only going to make everyone poorer. If youre making and selling widgets in teanGB, your domestic market will contract, and you wont be able to flog your widgets to the EU without crippling tariffs.

      Everyone knows Empire 2.0 is bullshit, so over the next teamGB decade, not even the great frauds of UKOK hackdom are going to be able to talk up UK economic growth.

      Unionist grip round Scotland’s throat will get tighter as England inexorably declines for the rest of our lives, unless…

    310. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      heedtracker @ 22:16,

      Indeed you are right, and we don’t know even a tenth of it all right now. (As neither does the wishful-thinking UKGov.)

      No need to be passive about it either, neither the indy movement at large nor the SG. There was a report in today’s National, for example, that London financial interests are themselves organising to lobby the EU for a continuation of their passporting rights. They aren’t even a devolved administration, FGS, yet they know where their interests lie and are willing to do whatever it takes to protect them.

      People respect someone willing to stand up for what they believe in, even if they don’t immediately agree. And may ultimately be won over. People don’t respect anyone wanting others to do the heavy lifting for them.

    311. Socrates MacSporran says:

      An awful lot of posters on here wanting the SNP to: “DAW SOMETHIN'”. Why?

      There is an old and very sensible piece of advice, which I think fits very well into what is happening in British politics right now. I hope the SNP sticks to it for a wee while yet.

      That is: Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. The Tories are making mistake, after mistake, aftr mistake – let them.

      The Labour Party in Scotland has thrown itself fully behind the losing part of the British Labour Party and is firmly fixed on maintaining the Union – let them.

      Come the big bang, they will be on the wrong side, and will pay for this.

      MInd you, all those who are pushing for action now, demanding the SNP DO SOMETHING – ach, that’s typically Scottish. We’ve nobody to fight with, so, we will fight among ourselves.

      Why do you think the MoD never stations all the Scottish regiments in Scotland in peace time? Because, fighting among themselves, they will sustain more casualties than in a war zone.

      Keep the heid folks – we’ll be fine.

    312. galamcennalath says:

      Re Scotland’s diaspora, clearances, potato famine and landlords.

      A quick google search came up with this short summary of events in the first half of the 19thC. It has a personal tone because the author is discussing his own ancestors.

      http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/potfamheb.html

      Apparently landowners would hire a ship, possible a coal carrier with open hold, to transport several hundred people all at once from his land. They would be deposited in Quebec and given a small sum of money. At this point the landlord’s agent would make clear that was the end of any relationship.

      This is why some townships in Canada have groups of families who all came from the same island or area in Scotland. For example, Tiree, Mull and Iona settlers went to Kincardine, Ontario during the late 1840s.

      We really need to politicise our North American diaspora through their family histories and continuing Scottish culture.

    313. crazycat says:

      @ Thepnr at 10.00

      Independence is not about Europe, currency or any other single issue. It’s about the right to govern ourselves. Nothing else should matter, neither should political affiliation, left or right.

      That seems to me to be the crux of the matter. I understand why Brexit has been such a prominent issue – it’s the “material change of circumstance” after all. But I’m aware that I often forget that, even now, most people are not really politically engaged.

      They vote, but particular issues are not necessarily of over-riding importance to them (even if we think they should be). There will, I suspect, be lots of people who voted Remain who did so without any great conviction. They’re not – yet – that concerned; they don’t feel “dragged out of the EU against their will”; or if they voted No+Remain, maybe their attachment to the union, misguided as it may seem to us, leads them to think the overall UK result should be “respected”.

      For such people, appealing to them on the basis of avoiding Brexit isn’t going to work, now or possibly ever. Therefore, I would have liked to see much more emphasis on the divergent outcomes of the EU referendum – the democratic deficit – rather than Brexit per se.

      I think that’s starting to happen – we just need to reinforce it.

    314. Hamish100 says:

      Dave McEwan Hill

      Re local online radio.

      Couldn’t you expand to be Scotland’s online radio?

      Link with WoSC – debate the postings.

      Get the doubters like rock to debate — well maybe not but you get the idea. Independent radio Scotland live from Dunoon.

    315. Hamish100 says:

      Dave McEwan Hill

      Re local online radio.

      Couldn’t you expand to be Scotland’s online radio?

      Link with WoSC – debate the postings.

      Get the doubters like rock to debate — well maybe not but you get the idea. Independent radio Scotland live from Dunoon and Dumfries and Drumtocher and Lewis and Shetland and Castlemilk…….”.

    316. schrodingers cat says:

      interseting post
      McGrath David
      3 hrs

      Now folks, here is the thing. SNP were hounded by all the media and unionist parties none of whom fought the recent election on policy, just SNP bad and no referendum. Absolutely nothing else.

      Also not everyone who favours Indy are fans of SNP. They should not and must not be criticised. Is it time for all indy groups to come under one banner and revive the Scottish Covenant. This takes the pressure off SNP who will remain prominent component of the Covenant but not the owners. Its the general public and backers of the covenant that become the target, a much more perilous position for the media

      question
      who are you gonna blame now

    317. Hamish100 says:

      Oops just seen the British football representative in Scotland result.

      Be warned my wee work colleagues who are britnats. Tomorrow will be difficult for you. Hide the butcher aprons mug from my eyes because I think I might chuckle at just the sight.

    318. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Schrödingers cat says:

      stay in the eu…………….? grief, how can we stay if we have left???

      we will not be independent before the uk leaves the eu.
      ———–
      IMO that’s not the important bit because it’s too long and leaves London dictating the timetable.

      More important is that we have Indyref-2 before London walks and that we win it..!
      Anything else and it’s goodby Scotland the nation and welcome the kilted Morris dancers.

      From that moment on we start divorce negotiations with London with an Indy deadline and parallel to that inform the EU that we wish to remain in the EU and start to negotiate the terms and conditions of membership which fit to Scotlands needs.

      Should London want to leave the EU before Scotland is indy. and the negs between Scotland and the EU are finished then the EU can bring in the “Holding Pen” idea or similar into play.

      The EU can be very pragmatic when looking for solutions.

    319. ben madigan says:

      “More important is that we have Indyref-2 before London walks and that we win it..!”

      totally agree – I am not convinced we have got until autumn 2018/Spring 2019
      Things could well precipitate sooner – unless labour forces a showdown in Westminster.

      Scotland needs to get its skates on!!!

      PS @tinto Chiel – glad you enjoyed the Bax music and it helped join up dots in your mind!!
      I wasn’t aware Bax had been subjected to a “soft” BBC boycott! So your info has joined up dots in my mind as to how his career went on such a downward slope in his later years!!

    320. Still Positive says:

      Graf Midgehunter @ 11.47

      Agree that the EU can be very pragmatic. If we vote for indy before the UK actually leaves the EU, then I think the ‘holding pen’ would come into play while we negotiate our exodus from the UK.

      They (EU) may also put pressure on UK to speed up the process of our exit from UK.

      After all, we are, historically, a European nation and I’m sure Alyn Smith and others have let that be known throughout the EU.

    321. Robbo says:

      Rumour has it,the bookies can’t make their mind up on who will go first-MAY or CAIXINHA? Seems pretty even stevens. Maybe a double both go b4 xmas??

    322. North chiel says:

      Some outstanding posts and ” Breeks” is obviously ” fired up” and I have always agreed with many of his sentiments. Tonight, I thought that “Thepnr” is ” on the money” with his post at 2200 and although my ” natural sentiments” are with Breeks, I agree with “Thepnr” tonight and his reading of our FM’s dilemma . She obviously has to maximise the Independence vote and as others have alluded to it should be INDEPENDENCE FIRST and a position on FULL membership of EU should be determined after we have ” taken back control”. In the meantime I recall the ” holding pen” idea from some weeks back which may come in to play if the FM gets to the stage of setting a date and/or the Westminster gov requests a deadline extension for negotiations/ transitional arrangements. Couldn’t agree more as regards the broadcasting issue which urgently needs to be addressed prior to Indyref2 and the increased ” propaganda offensive” from MSM.

    323. Still Positive says:

      boris @12.37

      Brilliant idea. My son often watches football on BBC Alba and I’m sure many other footie fans do so too.

      Would be great if the SG could include news bulletins on what the SG is actually doing as the ‘day job’.

    324. Ghillie says:

      Breeks, I hear your pain and share your passion.

      Frustration cripples patience.

      I’ve been voting for Independence since the 1970s and feel it so close now and want us to pick up our knees and sprint joyfuly to the finish. NOW !!!

      Keep the focus on Independence.

      It IS coming and may yet come to fruition by an unexpected route.

      But for now our SNP MPs and MSPs, Councillors and MEPs are working their socks off to protect the people of Scotland and Scotlands interests in the midst of the worst political and economic sh#tstorm we have ever seen. A Herculean task. And one that I think is being better handled than is reasonable to expect with the resources available.

      Tpnr, Socrates McSporran and crazycat, Yes,agree!

      Graf Midgehunter and North chiel, I thought that was THE PLAN.

      Leave no stone unturned, offer compromise for the short term, call Indyref2 between end of neogiations and before final Brexit, declare Independence = ) , apply to rejoin EU, get on with running Scotland’s affairs.

      Whilst enjoying generations of celebrations !! = )

    325. Ghillie says:

      And now, more than ever before, we all have to work on helping folk who were mibee no or mibee feart, that Independence is the way forward for Scotland.

      Love the idea of Indy Radio = )

      Even the humble YES stickers on our cars and in windows and badges on our jackets go a long way to normalising the feeling that THIS IS HAPPENING and that the lovely folk you see every day are for Independence and that mibee it is an ok idea after all 🙂

      Alot of power lies in our own hands = )

    326. scottieDog says:

      @Breeks
      I too share your frustration. I actually can easily see the situation where we are pulled out of the EU the way things are unfolding. I believe that brexit could be done fairly safely but it would involve sensible heads all round and deep pockets on the uk’s part. It does seem unrealistic however.

      As for the SNP, if they were a main opposition party in Holyrood they could be banging their drums very loudly for indy, swamping the scottish govt with FOIs (which is what is being done to them just now) and proposing radical policies.

      Right now they govern on a single front in Holyrood and could very well govern on two if the tory’s collapse. That’s a huge burden. The powers of the 35 MP’s in WM would far exceed those of what really is a glorified council in Holyrood (I refer to the powers Holyrood has)

      I think the 3rd front has to be fought by a YES campaign away from party politics but the scotgov need to use all levers available to them (not the tax traps) to distance society in scotland from the neoliberal thinking of WM.
      We have to show, not tell

    327. scottieDog says:

      To add
      Should the SNP form some kind of confidence supply relationship with a minority labour govt, I believe their narrative and focus will be on the uk as a whole. Sure scotland is benefitted but not exclusively. The DUP missed a trick by not playing that card.

    328. Les Wilson says:

      While the SNP are under daily attack on all sides they need our support, they are busting a gut for Scotland we should not, indeed cannot, forget that.
      A strong plan needs forming to draw all the Yes groups into collective strategies to raise Indy support across the board. That needs united thinking and we need to get on with it.

      The problem is bickering and small differences among the numerous groups.Some sort of Indy summit is required to thrash out a decisive and strong plan that the groups can use in unison, importantly with one voice.Thus they can work across the board a to debunk UK lies.

      A start to this could be done with those who already run blogs and those adept on social media.They need to stop bickering over small issues and petty jealousies and act together against particular threats as they exist and as they rise collectively.

      This could be a very potent weapon against the duplicity of the Westminster agendas constructed to keep us bound.
      A summit needs called, not for the public, but for those already mentioned, We need a united front, we need sensible heads and clever strategies, where are the leaders?

      The SNP may be a part of this, but not run by them, they have enough to do, this would be a broad alliance and exactly what is needed at this time, we need to win this, no more pussy footing around we need to show that we are solid and determined to free our country, nothing less will do.

    329. Hamish100 says:

      If the Bank of England raises interest rates today will that mean England is pushing Scotland into recession.?
      Would a few billion like Ulster help?
      All under westminsters control.,Comment please Davidson dugdale and rennie?

    330. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS; From the Lady:

      U.K. Manufacturing Slowdown Raises Doubts About Outlook;
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-03/u-k-manufacturing-slowdown-raises-doubts-about-economic-outlook-j4nwmian

      The Tories are now trying to strike another dirty deal to boost their sway in parliament [TWEETS];
      https://www.thecanary.co/2017/07/04/the-tories-have-struck-another-dirty-deal-to-boost-their-majority-in-parliament/

      Brexit woes & the UK economy:;
      http://www.weloveeconomics.com/brexit-woes-uk-economy-policies-damage-control/

      Peace Always

    331. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS;

      Two top BBC figures in running to head Theresa May’s communications;
      http://archive.is/4GynW

      Destitution is back. And we can’t just ignore it;
      http://archive.is/9Tt9J

      Famine Song not meant to offend says senior Orangeman, Mervyn Gibson;
      http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/07/04/news/famine-song-not-meant-to-offend-says-senior-orangeman-1074472/

      Peace Always

    332. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS;

      Ireland Joins France, Germany and Bulgaria in Banning Fracking;
      https://www.ecowatch.com/ireland-ban-fracking-2450255362.html

      Google may get access to genomic patient data – here’s why we should be concerned;
      https://theconversation.com/google-may-get-access-to-genomic-patient-data-heres-why-we-should-be-concerned-80417

      Sir Jeffrey Donaldson hits back at claims of DUP/Tory side deal over donations;
      http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2017/07/04/news/failure-to-publish-past-political-donations-part-of-dup-tory-deal–1074549/

      Peace Always

    333. Smallaxe says:

      LINKS;

      Report celebrates worldwide movement to reclaim services from privatisation;
      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/11293/report-celebrates-worldwide-movement-reclaim-services-privatisation

      The three tunnels;
      https://itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com/2017/07/04/the-three-tunnels/

      Orange Culture is Culture;
      https://randompublicjournal.com/2017/07/03/orange-culture-is-culture/

      That’s All Folks, Have a Wonderful Wednesday
      Peace Always

    334. Tinto Chiel says:

      @ben Madigan 1206: He composed quite a lot of his stuff in Morar, I believe. On reflection, he seems to have suffered a hard Baxit from the BBC.

      I’ll get my cagoule…..

    335. Robert Louis says:

      Breeks at 912 pm last night.

      Oh such a good posting. I do agree with every word. Every word. Indeed I am sorely tempted to print it out, and send it to every single SNP MSP, including the FM.

      It is an open goal, yet the SNP are backing away, over and over again. London has told us in no uncertain temrs over, and over again, the Scottish Government will NOT be involved in the brexit talks. So the choice as you put it, is clear.

      I hope nobody minds, but I so agree with breeks has written, that I am going to paste it below, to help people read it.

      QUOTE from breeks above;

      “No thepnr, I despair at an SNP government that cannot see an open goal right in front of it.

      I’m sick and tired banging on about the media and the impact it’s having on the struggle for independence while the SNP doesn’t even publicly acknowledge the problem.

      I’m sick and tired banging on about Sovereignty when it should be the leadership of the pro Independence Party in government banging on to me about sovereignty.

      I have my own ideas about Independence and how to get there. I have a lot of time what Craig Murray suggests. I also have a lot of time G A Ponsonby, Prof John Robertson, and back in the day, the Common Weal was saying a lot of things that resonated with me. Where is the SNP’s vision? It’s not me who shut down and turned the lights out on YES.

      The day after defeat for YES, I was advocating a plebiscite so the Scottish public could fill in the blanks of the mysterious “Vow”, and declare which further powers Scotland wanted. That’s declare mind you, not grovel and ask for. In the event, we didn’t even grovel, but turned to look the other way when the Unionist shafted Scotland and laughed all the way to the bank. Aye, the Vows been delivered… We might still have lost 2014, but we could have salvaged broadcasting from the wreckage.

      I hoped in the SNP we were electing a wildcat, but it seems what we’ve got is a beached whale. They’re not stalking Independence, quartering the distance, shortening the odds. I just don’t know what the plan is. Independence by osmosis if we stand close enough to a No voter? The SNP seems to be trying to win a campaign by not losing it, and they’re just leaving their popular support confused, exasperated and listless.

      Brexit was a watershed. From day 1, everybody understood staying in the EU was not possible while staying with the UK and so Scotland had a binary choice. Staying in the EU is the Independence option, staying in the UK is the Unionist option. Nice things happen to Scotland committing itself to the EU. Nasty things happen to Scotland committing itself to the UK and Brexit. Great! There’s black, and there’s white. In a two horse race, we are sorted.

      But no. Suddenly we’re compromising. We want to investigate a soft marshmallow type Brexit for Scotland, a “middle way”. We start proceeding on the bizarre basis that all the soft Brexit options which the deluded fools at Westminster thought they could get from Europe, are the same soft Brexit options which the deluded fools at Holyrood think they can get from Europe.

      Terrific. Let’s take a clear cut binary choice between Independence in Europe, and desolation in Mordor, and muddy the issues so we forfeit the clear and cast iron case for Independence, and tacitly accept that despite a powerful majority from the sovereign people of Scotland advocating Scotland stays in the EU, we choose instead to accept the fires of Mordor, and once it’s something we can no longer get out of, hope it turns out to be beastly and depressing. We are choosing to be Orcs, but hoping for sunshine.

      It’s not too late. We still have an open goal in Europe. For as long as we are in, hope of staying in survives. We were there, in the box before an open goal, but for some reason the SNP has backed off and retreated to the half way line. Don’t ask me why, I don’t know, but the goal is still open. Can we not just work our way back to where we were, and just give the ball a wee tap over the line?

      Just do it. Do the sovereignty thing. We know the dafties are going to kick up fk, but we can deal with those dafties as a sovereign country or suffer them indefinitely as the price Scotland pays for Unionism.

      Right now the SNP is taking the lazy way. They’re letting events make the case for Independence when actually, that’s their job.”.

    336. Ken500 says:

      The armchair spectators, who do nothing but give the SNP stick. . The little red hens who want everyone else to pull their load. instead of doing what they can. .Everybody who supports Independence should get out there helping and doing what they can. Not just the SNP.

      The SNP is the best, if not only chance, for Scotland to be more prosperous, fairer happier and Independent. It has never been closer unless people in Scotland want to do the Unionsts dirty work for them.

      May will be gone. The Tories are a complete failure and falling soon. A total failure. It is just a question of when. How long can they keep staggering on? The Brexit attempt will finish them. People are already sick to death of them. Liars.

      Corbyn will be as useless as the rest. His Brexit plans are just as bad as the Tories. This will lose out any benefits from the perceived policies. Most of which Scotland already benefits, Hiw can a person stay in a Party as representative for over thirty yars. When disagree with every major Policy. Living a life of major privilege. Instead of going and doing something useful. The Emperor has no clothes.

      The Unionst Parties are now trying to take the UK out of the EU when 60%, in the UK now want to remain. An impossible task. Totally impossible. The Libdems are useless. imposing fees on students and propping up the Tories. Now back with their nonsense to line their own pockets. Just a bunch of total hypocrites. They are responsible for this mess.

      BBC and others beam broadcasts all over the world. The idea that any Givernment has the power to stop them is a nonsense. Unless people imagine Governments have the power to shut down the Internet. Neither possible or desirable. MSM is eating itself. The participants are killing off their own industry. No one is watching or listening any more. The majority are on Internet getting the straight facts. The (far) right are finished.

      The next GE election is coming soon. Get rady. The Tories will not win in. Their lies are being found out now. The SNP is the only way to go for most people in Scotland. Scotland, Independent, in the EU.

      40% of school pupils in England have failed standard tests. There are an average of 35 in a classroom. They are trying to get it down to 31.

    337. Naina Tal says:

      Just been polled (probably the first time ever!) by ICM. Seem to be asking about trust in postal votes, polling stations etc. at the GE. Also where do you get your news? Trying to read what’s behind the questions before answering, but the guy seemed to be ticking boxes so no chance for any alternative answer. Did ask how I voted.
      Anyone know who the poll is for? Guy was evasive when I asked, but assured me it wasn’t for a political party.

    338. mr thms says:

      The Scottish economy is outstripping the UK.

      In the first quarter the UK grew by 0.2%

      On the news just now Scotland’s economy grew by 0.8%

    339. Ghillie says:

      mr thms @ 10.07 am

      ‘Scotland’s economy grew by 0.8%’

      That is good news = )

    340. Ghillie says:

      Robert Louis @ 8.26 am

      You obviously feel strongly and say you are sorely tempted to print out Breeks’s comment and post it to every single SNP MSP, including the FM.

      Well, maybe you could do just that.

      At least it would be a positive action on your part.

      And you would hopefully recieve a response that might at least answer your and Breeks’s concerns.

      Though I hope that when you do that, that in the spirit of fairness to all Wingers, that you do not fail to mention the fact that there are a fair few other comments on this site that support the actions taken by the SNP and that there are folk here who do seem to get what our leading Independence party are trying to achieve.

      Of course I don’t mind that you agree with Breeks, I often do too. But not on this occasion.

      There are some interesting points but overall the sentiment strikes me as unduly and unhelpfully harsh.

      I hope you get the answers and reassurance you so sorely need =)



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