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Wings Over Scotland

Her Majesty’s Opposition

Posted on July 12, 2015 by

There’s a key aspect of their job they seem to have forgotten.







We’re sure we’ll put our finger on it in a minute.

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  1. 12 07 15 18:01

    Her Majesty's Opposition | Politics Scotland | ...

  2. 12 07 15 18:19

    Her Majesty’s Opposition | Speymouth

105 to “Her Majesty’s Opposition”

  1. handclapping says:

    Her Majesties Loyal Abstention?

    If so, what are they being paid Short Money for?

  2. Brian Powell says:

    I’m sure they think they’ve got a brilliant plan that will make it all right; agree with the Tories on everything,just like Scottish Labour did during theReferendum, and it will all work out well for them..


  3. Colin Church says:

    Can we call it the Grand Coalition yet?

    Agree on budget, agree on humping Scotland on powers.

  4. Diane says:

    Labour are a faux-opposition, their only purpose, to provide an illusion, and a very poor, weak illusion at that, that there is some democracy in this so called ‘united’ kingdom.

  5. jimnarlene says:

    Why don’t they just join the Tory party, and be done with it.

  6. John Fern says:

    The sheeple capitulate once again……

  7. David S Briggs says:

    They oppose the SNP for the most spurious reasons yet can’t muster up the energy to have a stab at it in Westminster.

  8. scottieDog says:

    Welcome to England. A single party state with a two party facade. Run by the city of london corporation.

  9. OJ says:

    Some of the Labour candidates are against these measures. For instance Liz Kendall said she supports ->1% pay rises for public sector workers. Labour’s policy now doesn’t matter – it’s what their policy a few years before 2020 is.

    Probably the next Labour leader will accept some of them, especially the welfare cuts. One of the reasons Labour lost the election is the way voters view the party on welfare.

  10. semus says:

    Kenneth Kaunda was criticised by USA for running a one party state in Zambia.His immediate retort was ,”just like America, but Americans always have two of everything”.
    And look at the wealth of the English they can afford to have four Tory Parties!

  11. Craig MacInnes says:

    How much longer do we have to accept this charade?

  12. Robert Louis says:

    Seriously, you could not make this up. Labour effectively cheering on one of the barstewardiest tory chancellors in history.

    When Labour keep on chasing Tory policies, I keep saying here, that I am truly shocked. I have run out of superlatives. Just speechless, totally gobsmacked.

    What on earth are they thinking?

  13. George S Gordon says:

    Any chance that Owen will see sense?

  14. annie says:

    Labour seriously need Jeremy Corbyn to be elected for a chance to get back to Government. They ask “middle England” or typical tory voters what policies they want then pass it off as what the country wants.

  15. Andy-B says:

    Labour also abstained on the Purdah restrictions on the EU Referendum Bill.

    Labour act like they’re going to stand up against the Tories, but when it comes time to do so, it’s a different matter.

    If Labour were a animal it would be a chameleon, forever adapting to suit its own needs, and not the publics needs.

  16. One_Scot says:

    We need to vote for Independence soon, or we are F’cked.

  17. Gary45% says:

    As I said on a previous post yesterday.
    The English couldn’t bear the thought of an SNP/Labour coalition.
    I have just listened to Clegg on the I player from the Sunday politics show this morning, more or less confirming what I said yesterday.

    At least Scotland has a forward thinking vision of how to run a country.
    The next referendum can’t come quick enough.
    I see the Ginger Rodent still has his name above his old office up in Inverness

  18. Rigmac7 says:


    It’s very simple. The establishment have moved forward the timetable for privatisation etc. Labour are part of the establishment and are told to tow the line. By not providing any “big” party opposition, they’re trying to sell it as this Tory budget is the way it has to be – it’s what’s “best”. Expect full support to the Tories from them on any key matters over the coming months/years.

    Establishment is stopping them being opposition – they are in hock to it. What you’re going to see is Corbyn being subjected to the exact same as Scotland was during the run up to the referendum. Dirty tricks and full might of MSM propoganda.

    This is where things will start to get interesting in England.

  19. Legerwood says:

    Andy B @5.43

    Labour abstained on the purdah amendment proposed by the SNP.

    But now Labour are going to propose their own purdah amendment. According to a report in today’s Sunday Herald. Labour said the SNP were being ‘absolutist’

  20. boris says:

    So now we know where Scotland’s only Labour MP Ian Murray stands and it isn’t with his erstwhile colleagues in Scotland. Or is it????

  21. Ledj says:

    Well there was talk before the general election of a grand coalition, it seems that Labour has decided that they’re just going to do an informal one.

  22. Effijy says:

    Off Topic, but perhaps some would like confirmation that the bought and paid for IPSO-Press complaints body can see no problem with the Times running an SNP Bad story over 6 consecutive days, even though it had first emerged and was completely quashed some 7 months earlier.

    Dear Mr>>>

    I write further to our earlier email regarding your complaint about an article headlined “Scotland to cancel funding for Queen”, published by The Times on 24 June 2015.

    On receipt of a complaint, IPSO’s Executive reviews it to ensure that it falls within our remit, and discloses a possible breach of the Editors’ Code of Practice. The Executive has now completed an assessment of your complaint under the terms of the Code. Having considered the points you have raised in full, we have concluded that your complaint does not raise a possible breach of the Code.

    You said that it was inaccurate in breach of Clause 1 (Accuracy) for the headline to state that Scotland would “cancel funding” for the Queen. We should explain that headlines are generally considered in the context of articles as a whole, and that Clause 1 (iii) states that “the press, whilst free to be partisan, must distinguish clearly between comment, conjecture and fact”. The article made clear that Buckingham Palace “believe[d]” that Scotland would pull out of a deal to fund the monarchy, and claims to this effect were attributed to unnamed royal sources. Further, the article included a statement from a Scottish government spokeswoman making clear its position that “Scotland would continue to make the same contribution to the monarchy”. You do not appear to be in a position to dispute that such comments were made. The newspaper was free to report these comments, and doing so did not raise a possible breach of Clause 1.

    We note that an article subsequently published by the newspaper included further comments on the matter from the parties involved, in clarification of their positions. However in the coverage of a developing story, the newspaper was free to report the comments of these parties as they were made. The article you complained about made clear when these comments had been made, and your concerns about the parties’ positions having changed since publication did not therefore raise a possible breach of Clause 1.

    While we note that the article provided coverage of a developing news story, you do not appear to be in a position to dispute the accuracy of the reporting of these comments, and the newspaper clearly presented them as such. The newspaper was entitled to report the comments of the parties involved, and doing so did not raise a possible breach of Clause 1.

    You are entitled to request that the Executive’s decision to reject your complaint be reviewed by IPSO’s Complaints Committee. To do so you will need to write to us within seven days, setting out the reasons why you believe the decision should be reviewed. Please note that we are unable to accept requests for review made more than seven days following the date of this email.

    We would like to thank you for giving us the opportunity to consider the points you have raised, and have shared this correspondence with the newspaper to make it aware of your concerns.

    Best wishes,

    Xavier Bastin

    Cc The Times

  23. Bob Mack says:

    Red Tories right enough !!! How does the Northern branch square this circle with the Scottish people?

  24. Joe Hill says:

    Hey, Owen Jones – still holding your nose/breath for Labour?

  25. nodrog says:

    UK wide £12 billion in cuts for 13 million families.
    Scotland’s share £1 billion in cuts for 1.1 million families.
    That must be almost 90% of Scotland’s families.

    Are you sure they won’t vote YES next time ???

  26. Thepnr says:

    Labour? My arse!

  27. Morag says:

    The line seems to be that since the public elected the Tories twice in a row, that proves the public want Tory policies, therefore as democrats it’s their duty to support the Tory government.

    I’m still trying to get my head round that. 30-something % voted Conservative, 30-something % voted Labour. Just because the former 30-something % was a slightly bigger number, does that mean that the 30-something % of people who voted Labour now have no reason to expect the party to represent their views?

    This is a completely new take on first-past-the-post, winner-takes-all that totally rewrites the rules of politics. I’m astounded nobody is writing articles about it and challenging the concept.

  28. muttley79 says:

    @Rigmac 7

    Establishment is stopping them being opposition – they are in hock to it. What you’re going to see is Corbyn being subjected to the exact same as Scotland was during the run up to the referendum. Dirty tricks and full might of MSM propoganda.

    This is where things will start to get interesting in England.

    Correct, Corbyn cannot become leader of the British Labour Party without some serious resistance from the establishment in the UK, in the same way as Scotland could not be allowed to become independent. He is clearly gaining support and respect among the grassroots in Labour, and make no mistake Corbyn appears to be a genuine left winger. Corbyn is going to be the target of diehard blairites, their buddies in the MSM, and the establishment in London.

  29. hamish says:

    They will now support the Tories in the abolition of the Climbing Boys Act. Pernicious legislation which is an unfair attack on normal labour practices.

  30. K1 says:

    Ayep, looking, as others have said, that we are now witnessing a ‘grand coalition’.

    As Colin Church says…makes you wonder what the ‘deal’ was…Labour backs ukGov and effectively gifts the Tories complete power and abstains on all Scotland’s (SNP) amendments to the Smith proposals? In exchange for what?

    Feeling a little ‘despair’ here…which is unlike me, wtf is going on? We are not ‘safe’ here in Scotland as long as these bastards are running the show…and there is not an oppositional force in the rUK to stop this.

    I want the SNP out of there asap. I want us out even more fervently…when are the ‘others’ going to wake up to this…I see no signs of this…anecdotal…but nothing significant. Sigh.

  31. Skip_NC says:

    Effijy, that is a very interesting response. My only observation is that it wasn’t a developing story. It had already been debunked six months previously.

  32. Macart says:

    You heard it here first.

    The old Labour is now officially dead. Long live ‘I can’t believe its not tory’ or whatever else they feel like calling themselves.

  33. Helena Brown says:

    I think we can safely just call them the Establishment Party. If those who voted for the Labour Party are deliriously happy with a party who have a considerable time to wait to have any chance of Government which hasn’t got the chutzpah to actually oppose, what use are they. Why did their supporters bother going out or putting a cross on the paper, seems a total waste of time.

    Poor Jeremy Corbyn, can’t you see and all those other left wing, allegedly politicians in the Labour Party that you are wasting your time. You are simply the make weight of British Politics, there to give the illusion of democracy. Thank goodness we actually have a party willing fight with what little tools our Brit Nat fools left them with.

  34. galamcennalath says:

    If Labour abstain in the vote on the Budget, then they deserve absolute and total annihilation in Holyrood 2016!!

    I worked hard at the GE! I will try to work even harder for 2016.

    There has been much talk about what SLab need to do to avoid extinction … not rocket science, simple …. break away completely from London Labour and come out for Indy.

  35. Proud Cybernat says:

    I’m sure we all heard it during the GE.

    “Only Labour can stop the Tories.”

    What Tory policies, exactly, were they going to stop?

  36. Dan Huil says:

    Red Tories more Tory than Blue Tories.

  37. nodrog says:

    Now let’s work this out – 2 weeks before INDYREF1 we had a narrow lead. So the full weight of the Establishment Propaganda machine was brought to bear on us and they turned the vote.

    Two weeks before GE15 we were way ahead. So the full weight of the Establishment Propaganda machine was brought to bear on us and they failed miserably.

    Why because two weeks before INDYREF1 we had just over 20,000 members. But two weeks before INDYREF1 we had nearly 115,000 members.

    In other words our people propaganda machine was bigger and better than their’s.

    I know I have said it before but I will say it again – MORE MEMBERS MORE VOTES. People power is the way to beat the MMS and the Establishment Propaganda machine – they can’t stop it.

  38. Ken500 says:

    They are second raters, but they are all full of themselves. A bunch of poseurs looking for attention. Who in their right mind would join a Unionist Party. No wonder the UK is in such a state. They don’t even understand elementary maths, can’t read a balance sheet but can main and kill millions of people home and away. Westminster is a disgrace. A talking shop where nothing gets done.

  39. Brian Powell says:

    I guess Dunc has a good explanation, involving broad shoulders and pooling and sharing and one nation.

    Pity this ‘one nation’ will be pooling sharing misery.

  40. Macart says:

    What is a political party? What is it for? What does it do?

    Parties are born of need, of necessity. That need is given life through ideology and form through representation. The representation provides a voice for that need and a means of expressing the ideology.

    The poor and the working classes gave Labour life, supported them through the good times and the bad and even as parliamentary Labour began to shed its founding ideology in favour of the pursuit of office, the people who first gave Labour its reason for being showed the most remarkable patience and stuck by their representatives, their voice.

    Their reward for this loyalty? Population control, a party of abstainers and enablers, a party in pursuit of the middle class and middle England vote. A party of austerity, lordships, patronage and establishment compromise. A party that only wants to govern and represent ‘some’ of the people.

    Labour didn’t lose its way, they didn’t forget or become side tracked. Labour made a deliberate choice. They wanted power more than they wanted to serve. They’ve become a party of the professional politician, a career path whose breeding ground for its leadership can be found in public schools the length and breadth of these islands. For many years they have been moving in an ever rightward track and as of the last GE they finally completed their journey. By almost any measure they are pretty much ideologically indistinguishable from conservatives.

    In 2016 we need to finish the job begun in May and more importantly at the soonest possible opportunity after that, the job we put on pause in September of 2014. None of those who seek to govern from Westminster are fit to serve, for they only wish to lead.

  41. nodrog says:

    What a slap in the face for the Establishment media and propaganda machine – A DJOK HAS JUST WON WIMBLEDON!!!

  42. Effijy says:

    Skip_NC says:
    12 July, 2015 at 6:25 pm
    Effijy, that is a very interesting response. My only observation is that it wasn’t a developing story. It had already been debunked six months previously.

    Yes Skip. I did reply to say that and shoot down a number of their other claims including their favourite, “an Unnamed Source said”!

    An unnamed Palace Source, in my local, swears they are liars!
    How do I corrupt the electorate with the same rubbish they use?

    Is the Palace Happy that they have unnamed sources telling lies to these Rags, have the Palace started an Investigation into this matter? It looks to me like they are quite content to back up any SNP Bad stories that comes their way.

    UK Elite and their minions are corrupt to the core.

  43. nodrog says:

    CORRECTION TO MY 6.46 blog:-

    Why because two weeks before INDYREF1 we had just over 20,000 members. But two weeks before GE15 we had nearly 115,000 members.

    Makes more sense – sorry.

  44. handclapping says:

    I’ve not seen a Minion with a crown on it but, if you think about it, that’s what we’ve got

  45. heedtracker says:

    “The Labour Party is my greatest achievement”

    Dame Snatcher Thatcher. UKOK.

  46. xShuggy says:

    I think Corbyn’s in the wrong leadership race.

    If only he’d moved to Scotland…

  47. Lesley-Anne says:

    I’m confused here. 😉

    Can someone … anyone … remnd me again what thed job of the OPPOSITION is supposed to be?

    Whatever the job of the OPPOSITION is supposed to be I think Labour have just re-written the rules on being the OPPOSITION.

  48. Clootie says:

    …and they wonder why Scots stopped voting Labour!

  49. Effijy says:

    I loved the earlier post on Labour’s new catch phrase-

    “I can’t believe its not Tory!

    How about-

    “In tests, 8 out of 10 Conservatives couldn’t tell the difference”

    “I disliked the Party so much, I joined SNP”

    “If you can find a more dishonest party after joining us, we will
    double the difference”

    “Last year I spent £2,000,000 on unelected Labour Lords, next year I’ll go to “Aldae” no such thing, and sent the money to the NHS”.

    “We won’t be beaten on Averice”!

  50. Chris says:

    Looks like Labour took ‘Red Tories’ as a compliment! This is bad, Labour are becoming way like the tories now. Harriet Harman and the rest of the shadow cabinet are Blairite extremists. If they continue on the same path of this Tony Blair idolatry there will be no proper opposition and we may end up with a grand coalition of Tory-Lab-Ukip-Lib and all the rest SNP-Plaid-Green-Labour leafties as opposition.

  51. Jeff Todd says:

    This seems good advice for any political party, in particular for Labour.From Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations “This, what is it in itself, and by itself, according to its proper constitution? What is the substance of it? What is the matter, or proper use? What is the form, or efficient cause? What is it for in this world, and how long will it abide? Thus must thou examine all things that present themselves unto thee.”. Labour are leaderless, clueless and pointless. In Scotland, we have the SNP to lead the progressive forces. Who in rUK is going to do this?

  52. Chris says:

    I have a feeling Scots Labour might regret voting No, more the voters than the MSPs/MP through I think

  53. IvMoz says:


    I’m disgusted to see that Willie Rennie today is trying to make political capital regarding the awful deaths of Lamara Bell & John Yuill. He’s blaming the centralisation of Police Scotland for the tragedy & effectively is attacking the SNP.

    What a low-life.

    I don’t hear him offering that the Lib Dems will pay their £800000 2013 conference bill. What a boost that would be to Police Scotland coffers.

    Not to mention the VAT that the unionists still want to impose on Police Scotland.

  54. When asked if she would want another referendum, the First Minister answered “the people of Scotland will decide that”. Well after this weekends statements from the Labour party I think we should start to prepare for the elections next May.
    We should wipe that excuse for a party right out of Scotland, letting the electorate know that there is no place for any right-wing parties in Scotland either red or blue. Then the same the following year for the EU elections till Labour are just a distant memory.
    Anyone for a referendum in 2018?

  55. jethro says:

    Bad oppositions oppose unthinkingly (for example, the ‘SNP BAD’ approach of “Scottish” Labour).

    Good oppositions oppose constructively (For example, the amendments the SNP proposed to the Scotland Bill.

    I don’t think there is a word for an opposition which betrays its electorate to support vile cuts from a vile government, which will leave many of them struggling to survive.

  56. K1 says:


  57. Bob Mack says:

    Power corrupts—–

  58. marydoll says:


    Not been on all weekend so this may have been previously mentioned but when I heard it I was so angry I had to share it.
    Just heard on radio ( sorry Radio 2 helps me iron)that there’s a big celebration , presumably all over BBC, about Battle of Britain, which is also in a cinema near you, on September 18th!!!!!

  59. Thepnr says:


    I was going to say just that 🙂

    Only kidding, very well said, and every word rings true.

  60. nodrog says:

    I call this Tesco politics – Buy one Tory get one free!!

  61. Rock says:

    Is Labour going to let Cameron bring back fox hunting by abstaining?

    Our 56 SNP should vote against, even if it is an English matter.

    Let them bring in EVEL – it will bring us independence sooner.

  62. Les Wilson says:

    Well labour can now rightly be called, the junior Tory party.
    Wonder if they will join the Tory apprenticeship plan……
    ….. as apprentice Tories???

    Although only a little teaching required.

  63. heedtracker says:

    Kezia Dugdale ?@kdugdalemsp 2h2 hours ago
    I can’t and won’t support cuts to Child Tax Credits. I came into politics to tackle child poverty, not add to it
    345 retweets 416 favorites
    Reply Retweet345 Favorite416

    Awe, she’s a wee darling. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, er, Labour.

  64. Mealer says:

    Rock 8.29
    I think fox hunting is a stupid idea,but if the English want to indulge in that sort of thing,it’s hardly for us to ban them.Criticise? Yes. Sabotage? Well,I’m all for the free movement of people and if folk from Livingston or Lyon or Los Angeles want to go to England to protest that’s up to them.

  65. Diane says:

    Aye, and they can all BOGOF!

  66. Mealer says:

    Heedtracker 8.46,
    Tweet Kezia and tell her to JOIN ON THE FREEDOM TRAIN.

  67. Mealer says:

    Off Topic,
    I’m really wanting to go down to Celtic Connections in January.Whats the best place to stay for craic and proximity to venues?

  68. GallusEffie says:

    Macart@ 6:59

    “They wanted power more than they wanted to serve”

    What an epitaph!

    In the run-up to the by election to replace Bill Walker, October 2013, a young woman canvassing for Labour came to our door. At the time they were running the campaign about a £300 fuel freeze, do you remember that?

    She led with “well I’d like to have £300 in my pocket, wouldn’t you?”

    Me, bluntly: Nope. Not if it means Labour being in power here.

    Why do you say that?

    You’ve lost your way as a party. You don’t represent me anymore.

    She didn’t cross question me or utter one syllable to defend or counter, sighed, and asked: I know it’s a long way away, but do you know what way you’re voting in next Year’s referendum, and if so would you tell me what?

    Yes I do and I’m voting yes.

    Another sigh. Wee scribble.

    Thanks for your time.

    Goodbye Labour. What a sad way to go.

  69. Phronesis says:

    The Conservative Govt of 1905 called for an inquiry of the 1834 Poor Law Act as one of its last acts of government. Its officials were steeped in the principles of the 1834 Act where the poor would be deterred for applying for relief unless in dire necessity by threat of ‘firstly…the loss of personal reputation (the stigma of pauperism); secondly the loss of personal freedom which is secured by detention in a workhouse; and thirdly, the loss of political freedom by suffering disfranchisement’. The Conservatives were particularly unhappy about the Unemployed Workman Act 1905 which by-passed the Poor Law to assist the unemployed whose numbers had risen since the Boer War.

    Despite the Conservatives serial moralising and fixation on linking deprivation with depravity and the ‘criminal classes’ many enlightened individuals across the political and social spheres legislated for positive change in the domains of health, education, conditions of employment, establishing the welfare system through the National Assistance Act 1948. Booth, Rowntree and Beveridge all campaigned about poverty and inequality.

    A rather schizoid approach for the 21st century then after decades of welfare reform that Child Benefit is no longer regarded as a universal benefit that is central to any programme to reduce intergenerational inequality, foster social mobility and create opportunity particularly for disadvantaged youngsters. In 1945 children allowances were one of the 3 basic assumptions of the Beveridge Report. All children at that time received free school meals and free milk. The allowance was universal but taxable.

    Children who are here today should count, they are our future but this is a government who has given up on young people and forgetting very important lessons from history on the importance of an adequate state response to help families who are in need of support. Destitution has crept back into our vocabulary and whilst we don’t have child beggars on the street yet, this will be the next visible evidence of the austerity budget and increasing child poverty levels.

    Of course the UKOK government will know that their legacy for many of today’s youngsters is a vicious circle of homelessness, poverty, worsening mental health and stress- they can read about it in this report. History will not remember UKOK kindly and Scotland will remember this in our sprint towards Indy2.

  70. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Mealer.

    Try asking in ‘off-topic’.

  71. Mealer says:

    if you’ve got a minute,why not go on YouTube and punch in “Can You Hear The Call Of Freedom”.

  72. Rob James says:

    And yet there are still many diehard old fashioned socialists who still vote for them regardless. I presume they don’t watch or read news, but routinely make the trip to vote as they have always done, and always will.

    Even people like Owen Jones and Stephen Daisley can see all the problems with Labour, but can’t seem to detach the umbilical chord. Murphy’s 1000 extra midwives might have come in handy after all.

    Despite having committed political suicide in Scotland, they intend to assume the same tactics down south. They’ve totally lost the plot.

  73. Mac an sealgair says:

    And Dugdale asks how the SNP are going to protect Scotland from the Tories!!!
    Puts a different light on that statement, maybe it was a cry for help given her London Masters ineptitude.

  74. Bob Mack says:

    “Sunshine of Socialism”

    “I shall not weary you by repeating the tale of how public opinion has changed during those twenty one years.
    But,as an example I may recall the fact that in those days,and for many years thereafter,it was tenaciously upheld by the public authorities here and elsewhere,thai it was an offence against the laws of nature, and ruinous to the state and public authorities to provide food for starving children or independent aid for the aged poor. Even safety regulations in mines and factories were taboo.They interfered with the freedom of the individual.
    As for such proposals as a minimum wage,the right to work and municipal houses,any serious mention of such classed a man as a fool”

    Keir Hardy.

    Think it speaks for itself.

  75. Macart says:


    An anecdote that’s all too familiar effie. They know.

    They know fine well that they are not the party they were, the party they were created to be.

    I’m sure more than one Labour canvasser has met exactly the same response on doorsteps right across Scotland. There’s no fight, no answer to give, because what you said was the literal truth. There is no lie or soundbite they can use to cover up or excuse what they have become… an election machine that’s entire reason for being is to provide the ambitious with a career.

    When faced on a doorstep with an aware, informed and probably rightly grumpy voter the only response possible, with a lack of viable or plausible argument, is tick the box and move on.

    After the events of the past few days its a reaction they’ll encounter a lot more of and deservedly so. In Scotland? I suspect Ms Harman’s response to the budget will receive an even colder reception. Between them both the conservative government’s post GE behavior and Labour’s capitulation have sent a crystal clear message to our electorate. Neither party should be surprised at the probable response next year.

  76. thedogphilosopher says:

    Is this the kind of determined opposition Kezia was calling for?

  77. lumilumi says:

    Isn’t Labour the abstinence party nowadays?

    They don’t vote AGAINST the Tories, just abstain. So that they can go to their constituencies and brag they didn’t vote FOR this Tory thing or that.

    Euugh. Makes me sick.

    What’s the f***ing point of the Labour party?

    They’re not providing any effective opposition – a basic, necessary condition of a functioning democracy. No, they’re just fawning at the powers that be, wishing to emulate them, be them, with maybe some superficially “lefty” bits tagged on.

    The real opposition in Westminster is the SNP, but what can 56 do against nearly 600?

  78. lumilumi says:

    I remember the half light-hearted talk of a “grand coalition” of Tory & Labour (to stymie Scotland) before the GE.

    Isn’t that what you’ve got now?

    Tories trampling all over the people of the UK in a mad rampage, drunk on the joy of being solely in charge at long last, and the “main opposition party” Labour jollyly going along by abstaining or voting with the Tories.

    UK democracy is dead, it’s a club of Establishment and “aspiring Establishment” figures. Never mind the people, and especially never mind the Scottish people and their 56 anti-establishment MPs.

  79. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Just had a look at at that Panelbase Pollhat’s been getting quoted. It’s very dubious indeed. It was an online poll.
    It shows very significant majority for YES up to 35 years old, including female majorities.

    However the Labour report is bollocks and this may well have have skewed the final result. It has Labour support for independence at 9% with 88% against.
    It would be interesting to know how they identified Labour support and what percentage of the numbers polled they thought would be appropriate for Labour. How was their weighting? organised?

  80. Rock says:


    ” I think fox hunting is a stupid idea,but if the English want to indulge in that sort of thing,it’s hardly for us to ban them.Criticise? Yes. Sabotage? Well,I’m all for the free movement of people and if folk from Livingston or Lyon or Los Angeles want to go to England to protest that’s up to them.”

    Not only stupid, but barbaric in the 21st century.

    If our 56 SNP MPs don’t want to be 2nd class MPs at Westminster they should exercise their right to vote against this barbarism.

    One of the reasons Labour wanted a No vote was to protect the English against the Tories.

    Although a fat lot of good their 41 MPs did.

    There is a majority against fox hunting among the people of England.

    People have been talking about the SNP standing candidates in England (a very bad idea in my view).

    But here is a chance for our SNP MPs to vote on the right side of English public opinion without having MPs in England.

    The SNP’s popularity will rise even further in England.

  81. HandandShrimp says:

    I am actually gobsmacked that Labour are considering abstaining on the Budget. I seriously did think that they would vote against it is diametrically opposed to everything they purport to stand for.

    I also think the SNP should vote against the fox hunting amendment. If Tories can vote en masse to block every amendment to the Scotland Bill then I think their bills are fair game….and fox hunting is a tad sick.

  82. Les wilson says:

    Labour are inept and they know it, so they are abstaining trying to show middle England how anti SNP they are.
    Yet trying not be seen actually helping them.

    In truth, helping the Tories in their attempts to crush out our democratically elected MP’s.

    No democracy allowed for Scotland within this “Union”, something we should never lose sight of going forward.

  83. Hobbit says:

    Honest, I can’t believe what I’m reading. There are some parts of the Labour Party who can’t believe what they’re reading either. Does England hate ‘the poor’ that much?

  84. Les wilson says:

    Sorry “Yet trying not be seen actually helping them.”

    Should have been edited to ” Yet trying not to be seen actually helping their supposed enemies”

    Accidentally pressed send before editing DUH!

  85. Effijy says:

    Watching T in the Park.
    The music and the atmosphere is great, only spoiler is the
    large banners either side of the Stage that show the name of
    “BBC Scotland” that’ll be the pseudonym for North English Propaganda channel, who have had to use 2 poor quality presenters
    imported from England and Ireland.
    Well a Scottish presenter would be to small, to poor, and to
    incompetent to read out the names of the acts.

    PS The world richest musical artist, Calvin Harris, born and bread in Dumfries is now British/English??

  86. Robert Burns says:

    That’s the whole meaning of it right there – HER MAJESTIES opposition.
    Not the electorate’s opposition – no, no that would do, at all.
    So, let’s just leave, quietly, if possible.

  87. Jim says:

    John Fern says:
    12 July, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    The sheeple capitulate once again……
    The “Sheeple”, have no option but to capitulate.

    What do you think the sheeple can do?

    Take to the street and protest, that will work?

    Take to the street and riot; water cannon and armed police/military await you.

    The back of the welfare state will be broken the same as the backs of the unions were broken and there is nothing we can do about it.

  88. Mealer says:

    Rock 10.22
    I can’t make a moral argument counter to yours.I could probably thresh you hands down on pragmatical and political arguments only to receive similair from you on philosophical grounds.
    I expect SNP MPs to make their opinion clear on the matter of English fox hunting and Japanese whaling.I expect them to vote in favour of a motion condemning it.I expect them to abstain on a vote banning it.That said,and I dare say you might consider this a cop out,I’m happy to leave these matters to those entrusted with such decisions by the membership of the SNP.Other parties will,I hope,express the views of their memberships.

  89. Ken500 says:

    Little Red Riding Hood.

  90. Dr Jim says:

    Get ready for Dippity’s wee announcement
    Coming soon to a channel near you, or a paper, or a Tweet

  91. Melvin penman says:

    You know it’s amazing that the Labour Party are truly the red Tories, in fact they seem to want to out Tory the Tories….that’s their new strategy, “If you can’t beat them join them”.

    Given that they are creating the situation for revolution ,don’t any of them read history. They have clearly never heard of the French Revolution. There now is in effect a one party state.When the people revolt and they will, they will lose more than there privileges and positions. Madam guillotine may well make a comeback……

    I hope not ,but the debt extravaganza is coming home to the tax payers. The Banksters/govt plan to transfer the debt back to the households. This will mean mass protests and mass poverty. The people will need to get their money somehow, or there will be starvation,if the govt and businesses don’t suppy it then they people will take it. History has a knack of repeating itself and the UK is doomed Austerity. Scotland wake up and claim your independence.

  92. One_Scot says:

    I have not watched main stream news since the referendum, so I do not know what is happening with Greece other than a few tweets on the Revs feed.

    With regard to Greece, I have not learnt much in life, but one thing I have learnt is that money does not exist, it is merely a man made concept to allow a very few to control very many.

  93. caz-m says:

    Every time I come onto Wings now, I am looking for the link that will fire us on to another Referendum, the link that tells us that Nicola Sturgeon has just announced that Scotland will be going for another Independence Referendum.

    Even writing this post gives me a lift.

    C’mon Nicola, just do it!

    Big smiley thing.

  94. Roll_On_2015 says:

    Labour North and South of the border are scunnard whichever way they turn.

    Here is a comment I wrote after the Queens speech, but never got round to posting:

    A recent study by the Pollster John Curtice warns a Labour majority in 2020 is ‘improbable’

    Planned Boundary changes: Election swing Labour needs for majority has doubled, study finds

    In the Queen’s Speech: David Cameron announces law to slash Labour’s union funding

    After leading the Tory Party to its first majority for 23 years, Mr Cameron unveiled legislation that could see donations to Labour fall by tens of millions of pounds every year.

    This one act alone will have deep ramifications for Labour it ensures that they are pushed even further towards large private corporations or individual rich donors for money and as we are all to well aware that more often than not usually carries a payback clause. After all with these groups of people ‘you don’t get something for nothing’, it invariably comes with a price tag.

    In fact J K Rowling’s will have to dig deeper into her purse if she wants to keep Labour in the style they are accustomed to.

    One way or another Labour will have to turn even further to the right; indeed they have already started that process:

    Labour moves to support Tories’ lower benefit cap despite ‘children on breadline’ warnings

    Labour has moved to support the Government’s plan to lower the benefit cap to £23,000, according to a statement made by interim leader Harriet Harman.

    Responding to the Queen’s Speech in parliament today Ms Harman said her party was “sympathetic” to cutting the maximum amount a family can be paid in benefits by £3,000, a provision in the Conservative manifesto and in the Queen’s Speech.

    Labour’s support for reducing the cap comes despite warnings from charities and researchers that it was already responsible for increasing homelessness and putting “children on the breadline”.

    Meanwhile back at the Tory ‘Funny Farm’ Social mobility has come to a halt

  95. Kevin meina says:

    I think half our problem is what next and a lack of direction.we had referendum and the demoralising feeling of despair but that led to rise in SNP membership and a quick run up to election with even more campaigning with hardly a pause between them.We triumphed at GE but what now we have to keep the momentum going into 2016 Hollyrood and SLAB council destruction in 2017.
    We need to steer a course towards ref2 and ideas on currency and devolving broadcasting.

  96. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The “Sheeple”, have no option but to capitulate.

    What do you think the sheeple can do?

    Take to the street and protest, that will work?”

    Pretty sure he meant Labour. I have a word filter for “sheeple” and I don’t let it through if I think it means the public.

  97. James says:

    Looking forward to the collapse that is coming down the road once the plates slow down and start dropping.

  98. Chic McGregor says:

    “We need to steer a course towards ref2 and ideas on currency and devolving broadcasting.”

    Been busy this weekend so have not kept up with Wings.

    But what we don’t need to do is focus on currency. Indeed looking at money generally will lead to a deliberate quagmire of obfuscation on what it is, what it is for and who gets to accumulate it by whatever means not to mention who gets to print it.

    The focus should be on where and how genuine wealth is created and what it is used to do.

    Genuine wealth is everything we actually use in life.

    Food, cloths, cars, roads, railways, houses, computers, software, telephones, TV, medicines, building materials, public transport, electricity, gas, fossil fuels and many others.

    They use various activities and raw materials to produce.

    Farming, fishing, manufacturing, engineering, building, broadcasting, mining, quarrying, construction, smelting, chemicals processing, renewables, fossil fuel extraction, weaving, and many others.

    The efficacy of those is directly influenced by.

    Inventors, scientific and technological innovation, research and development, education, health care and a social balance which both encourages a work ethic and rewards genuine innovators yet provides the necessary health care (which anyone might need) and the welfare to help ensure that all children have the chance of contributing to their maximum potential (whatever background).

    Which in turn is influenced (or interfered with) by Government.

    We need to concentrate on where genuine wealth is being produced.

    Whether a country is a net wealth producer or whether they need to import it for their population.

    Of course, countries in genuine wealth deficit might, for a while, devise various means of compensating.

    Imperialist resource plundering, various money based scams, exchange rate manipulation, devaluation, leverage, printing more money (aka counter-fitting), credit bubbles.

    But aside from the first, which is military might dependent, those things can only go on as long as the rest of the World allows it.

    When the real crunch comes i.e. when the World pseudo-trade goes tits up eventually, as it is historically wont to do, there can be no WWIII reset button this time (I hope) so where will that leave the countries in genuine wealth creation deficit?

    I would rather by then be in a country which has a genuine wealth creation surplus or near enough.

    And the currency it uses will be even more irrelevant then.

  99. Ken500 says:

    They care more about foxes than they do about children. Lambs to the slaughter. They have blood on their hands. Unionists politicians should be banned. They are out of control.

  100. Chic McGregor says:

    oops counterfeiting

    I’d spelled it wrong and then must have hit the wrong option on the list.

  101. Fred says:

    Of course our Mp’s should vote against the Tories on fox-hunting. We’ll get nowhere observing parliamentary niceties & best past practice with these people. As yet there are no rules against Scottish MP’s voting as their consciences dictate. That’s set to change, so sod the bastards.

  102. arthur thomson says:

    We must not make a move to another referendum until the people make it clear that they want and are ready for it.

    Key to this is the maximum eradication of all Slab influence. We have to be absolutely singular in pursuing this goal.

    Then we can turn our attention to calling out the blue tories. They have been using Slab as cover. They won’t be so smug when their cover is blown and they start to feel the heat of public censure being directed at them.

    The SNP need to provide leadership at this difficult time. What I expect from them is an approach based on the maxim ‘If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs …. ‘

    We must never repeat the folly of attempting a full frontal assault against vastly superior numbers. It’s a mugs game and we are not mugs.

    Humility is the antidote to humiliation. All the true greats have had it. We have to find it in ourselves.

  103. Jim says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    13 July, 2015 at 12:57 am

    “The “Sheeple”, have no option but to capitulate.

    What do you think the sheeple can do?

    Take to the street and protest, that will work?”

    Pretty sure he meant Labour. I have a word filter for “sheeple” and I don’t let it through if I think it means the public.
    Not sure then what he meant but our hands are tied whwhatever because our so-called opposition party is the other cheek of the same arse, the LDP being the arsehole!

  104. Maureen mangan says:

    I thought abstinence was the policy of a different movement in the early 20th century but it would appear that it was the roots for labour today. Why do they only vote against the SNP?

  105. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Dundee, whose MP was Winston Churchill, threw him out by voting in an Prohibitionist (ie Abstinence) MP, Neddy Scrimgeour, in the 1922 GE.

    “Dundee has a rich political tradition. Winston Churchill once represented the city as a Liberal until he was defeated in 1922 by Neddy Scrimgeour, the only MP to stand on a Prohibitionist ticket.”


    That was Dundee, a city which is not averse to the pleasures of the grain and the grape.

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