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Hacked off

Posted on May 30, 2014 by

The week-long media frenzy that would have surrounded the Scottish Government releasing a key set of figures about independence, only to have them immediately and pointedly disowned by their cited sources as gross distortions misrepresenting the reality by a factor of 12, doesn’t bear thinking about.

(Remind yourself of the 10 desperate days they dragged out of some spectacularly innocuous comments about Vladimir Putin and multiply that by about a thousand.)

The one-sided national embarrassment that is the Scottish media, however, has done its level best to completely bury the wholly-justified anger of Professors Patrick Dunleavy of the LSE and Robert Young of Western Ontario University.

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Neither of the country’s current-affairs TV shows gave the matter more than the most cursory passing mention, nor did most of its newspapers. You’ll search in vain for a story about it in the Guardian, and the Scotsman actually managed to hide its two paragraphs of coverage deep inside pieces attacking the SNP.

A promised interview with Professor Dunleavy on “Good Morning Scotland” never materialised, but the distinguished academic DID eventually surface on Wednesday’s edition of “Newsdrive”. If you click the image above you can listen to the seven-minute slot in its entirety, and wonder just how outrageously the defenders of the Union would have to act to make the front pages of a Scottish newspaper.

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    1. 30 05 14 17:06

      Hacked off | Scottish Independence News

    2. 26 06 14 16:53

      Start-up, the spin cycle | Are We Really Better Together?

    113 to “Hacked off”

    1. Les Wilson says:

      I listened to the Dunlevie Newsdrive interview, he does not mince his words and makes the true situation abundantly clear.So much for a democratic media!. Particularly the BBC,who lead the charge of misinformation.
      So what’s new?, they always do that as a matter of course.

    2. Greannach says:

      Just visited BBC site to try and find the Newsdrive clip when, lo and behold, a survey popped up seeking my views on the BBC Scotland website. What a rare opportunity! I don’t suppose it will appear much again if more people give negative views and reasons why.

    3. Dan Huil says:

      For what it’s worth I have boycotted all British newspapers – both the printed and online editions – except the Sunday Herald. A small protest I know but if enough people in Scotland do the same then at least we can take the Scottish unionist ones out of business.

    4. Greannach says:

      PS. Just got an email from the research company thanking me for my willingness to participate in other BBC-related questionnaires in the future. I wonder if I’ll ever get one.

    5. Gillie says:

      Well what are we waiting for

      Lets crowd-fund Prof Dunleavy to research the costs of setting up government departments in an independent Scotland.

    6. BuckieBraes says:

      ‘The one-sided national embarrassment that is the Scottish media…’

      We know the proprietorial and editorial classes are a lost cause – as are the so-called ‘commentators’ like Alan Cochrane – but what about the ordinary jobbing journos?

      Hey guys – happy are you, with what you are doing to your country day in, day out? Really?

    7. HandandShrimp says:

      It shall be interesting to see how the BBC behaves over the next 16 weeks. I am glad the formal campaign is as long as this. Many make up their minds in the last few weeks of campaigning. We know we can persuade people when we get a fair crack of the whip so if there is balance the two years of unadulterated bilge we have been subjected to may well count for little.

    8. Scottish media you should hang your head in shame , remember that I WAS only obeying orders
      is not acceptable , believe me lessons are being learned

    9. G H Graham says:

      The print media is easy to punish.

      STOP BUYING THE BLOODY PAPERS!

      The BBC on the other hand operates inside its own world of group think totality.

      So vote YES so we can dismantle this propaganda arm of the British Government & start anew.

    10. Duggie says:

      “You’ll search in vain for a story about it in the Guardian, and the Scotsman”

      It’s obviously justifiable to get enraged about any BBC bias consdering they’re supposed to be impartial.

      But I don’t really see the point in getting all hot and bothered about the newspapers – they’re privately owned and can support what they like and print what they like (within the law obviously).

      Just as you’d search in vain in the papers for critical articles on the unionists and their claims, so you’d search in vain for criticism of the SNP and their independence claims on this and other pro-independence media outlets.

      That’s perfectly fine – the pro-independence message just needs to come from sources other than newspapers, they’re a dying form of news anyway.

    11. heedtracker says:

      So UKOK/bettertogether’s own advisor says they are “ludicrous” and that UK.gov Treasury “do not know a great deal about the issues they are handling” BUT the staggeringly corrupt ukok media says its all an FM Alex Salmond cover up. What will the morons do next?

      http://archive.today/tO8B6
      Alex Salmond in ‘cover-up’ row over independent Scotland’s set-up costs

    12. geo says:

      So this is the “small spat” between the treasury and Professor Dunleavy that was commented on during Scotland Tonight last night?

    13. heedtracker says:

      @ Duggie your powers of ukok fudge are weakening today. WoS is one blog on a mountain of raging teamGB media propaganda, so its very worthwhile getting angry about them.

      Scotland’s referendum has become a 3 year test of British media’s power in the Uk although to be fair, the hacks involved are not very good. So there is some hope!

    14. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “But I don’t really see the point in getting all hot and bothered about the newspapers”

      *closes down site*

    15. Tom Steele says:

      I predict the demise of the printed media and quite possibly mainstream news after Sept 12th regardless of the outcome.

      http://sainscot.wordpress.com/2014/05/14/has-the-printed-scottish-mainstream-media-committed-suicide-over-the-indie-debate/

    16. Kenny says:

      The thing that bugs me is not that newspapers have an editorial line. That’s normal and mostly you get a reasonable balance. But “Treasury ‘bizarrely exaggerates’ Scotland set-up costs” should be a great story for the Guardian or the Mirror or the Record or any Scottish paper. Stories on blatant BBC bias would normally be seized enthusiastically by the Mail, Telegraph and the Murdoch papers. It bothers me that this is NOT a balanced debate precisely because ALL the media outlets we have have all chosen to slavishly follow the Westminster/BT line instead of pursuing normal journalistic standards of fact-checking, while most have taken a pretty consistent line on which stories to ignore and which to highlight.

    17. david anderson says:

      Ahaha Stu! Yes if it wasn’t for the websites countering the MSM and all their skewed and biased misinformation I would be left with just the burning sense of anger and in some ways a feeling of powerlessness. Whereas with the information privided by wings etc I can put that out there to combat the MSM and have succesfully helped some come to the conclusion that YES is their answer. I have never had such ease of access to researched information that can backup my own assertions and it is without doubt hugely beneficial to the YES campaigners to have it so readily available. Once again thanks, braw stuff!!!

    18. heedtracker says:

      BBC in Scotland choob “So wildly different figures, impossible to believe, isn’t always going to be guesstimate?”

      Professor Dunleavy “No I don’t think that’s necessary at all, there are plenty of social scientists in Scotland and London who could be drafted in and plenty of serious people delight to give a view on set-up costs for a new Scottish government and we would do a really thorough job that would add to the sum of knowledge”

    19. Andy-B says:

      Chief pot washer David Clegg, at the ultra unionist and London owned Daily Record, tried to down grade the significance of Better Together’s complete and utter lie of £2.7 billion pounds, start up costs of an independent Scotland here’s what,BBC Radio Scotland’s new favourite BT pet said.

      “The UK Treasury faced accusations,that their £2.7 billion suggested set up costs,were inaccurate, from the man who’s work was used to come up with the figure, London School of Economics, professor Dunleavy, the academic later guesstimated the cost could be between £150 million and £200 million”.

      Sounds to me as though David Clegg, who’s political journalism is akin to Nick Cleggs political career as head of the Lib/Dems (On the way down), is being rather harsh on professor Dunleavy.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-government-done-no-work-3624684

    20. Lesley-Anne says:

      Any who lives in and around Glasgow and is not all that impressed with the newly re-vamped UKIP Channel might be interested in this. 😉

      http://tinyurl.com/kcbnbar

    21. donald anderson says:

      The EBC? Is that them that own the big empty shed in Govan wharf wi’ the lichts oot at night?

    22. John grant says:

      Sorry folks there a shower of fucking basdards , reconciliation , no way no how no never, the bitters are out and about tomorrow in my neck o the woods, I hope someone stopse for a chat

    23. handclapping says:

      Don’t you worry, Rev, I appreciate what you do.

      But I wish you’ld get stuck into those lying papers sometimes /* ducks */ 😀

    24. steviecosmic says:

      It’s an appalling dereliction of duty on the part of the media. We have a UK government department that has been caught red handed cooking the books to fool the Scottish electorate in a cack-handed attempt to thwart democracy, and the media don’t think it is newsworthy.

      Well, one has to wonder whether any of those making the editorial decisions have stopped to think if it is only the Scots that the government are lying too. If I were an editor, I imagine I would be duty bound to print the story in order to reduce the chances of a government department pulling a stunt like that again. Next time around, it may not be the Scots being duped.

    25. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “BBC in Scotland choob “So wildly different figures, impossible to believe, isn’t always going to be guesstimate?””

      In fairness, I thought the interviewer asked him questions designed to allow him to let rip.

    26. Lesley-Anne says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “But I don’t really see the point in getting all hot and bothered about the newspapers”

      *closes down site*

      Don’t worry Stu I appreciate all the hard work you put in on here even if most of it goes sailing over my head. 😛

    27. YESGUY says:

      DON’T PAY THE LICENSE FEE AND DON’T BUT PAPERS. EVERYONE DO THAT UNTIL THE 19TH AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

      START TODAY.

    28. YESGUY says:

      oOoops buy instead of but

    29. Succulent lamb, or should I say, succulent bulldog?

      The Scottish media lost the ability to think for itself a very long time ago.

    30. Jack Beck/Scotus says:

      I’m reminded of how amazed I was, during the Falklands war, how slavishly all the UK MSM followed the Government line. That was a big wake-up call to me!

      Of course we didn’t have high speed internet then – – –

    31. Andy-B says:

      Here the BBC have the audacity to try and explain the 16 week referendum period,in which they say it should be punctuated with fairness, by both sides of the debate. I almost fell of my seat, when I saw the words fairness, and the BBC.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27609162

    32. heedtracker says:

      @ Rev. Stuart Campbell, or did she have any real idea of what was happening in her BBC cans?!

    33. Red Squirrel says:

      Has anyone noticed BBC website carrying indyref stories that are unexpectedly a bit more balanced? e.g. treasury figures fibs, NoBorders health propaganda and another one I forget – just happened since yesterday but they seem to appear then disappear very very quickly.

      Blink and you’d miss the ‘balance’. Not sure if I can manage BBC stupid at 18:30 to check – it’s been a close run thing not to throw things at the tv this week what with all the overwhelming great reporting and all.

    34. Papadox says:

      If they think I am going to be brow beat, tricked and cheated out of my country then they are even more stupid than I think.

      Shake hands and lets all love the putrid establishment and it’s helpers then we can all sit down holding hands and watch the good old EBC with trust and pride and wonder at the power and glory of the cesspool that is HMG and it’s wonderous magic kingdom. Its ring leaders will be rewarded with ermine and gold and high honours.

      They have opened a can of worms and the stench is suffocating, they are in trouble which won’t go away until my wee country cleanses itself of this sewage, there is no going back. They are so arrogant and stupid they cannot see the damage they are doing, which is not reversible.

      Bought and sold with English gold, I don’t think so we are being bought and sold with Scottish gold.

      My grandchildren and gt grand children will get the benefits, I will just have the privilege of allowing them their own country and be subservient to no man. FREEDOM FOR OUR KIDS!

      If I am on my own, so let it be, I am angry.

    35. Andy-B says:

      Sorry Rev, I mean’t add this to my last post, regarding fairness and the 16 week period. Broadcasters must stick to the rules of impartiality.If you see or hear any bias information by the broadcasters, ie the BBC during this 16 week period then complain to the regulator.

      http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/broadcast-codes/broadcast-code/

    36. goldenayr says:

      Greannach says:
      PS. Just got an email from the research company thanking me for my willingness to participate in other BBC-related questionnaires in the future. I wonder if I’ll ever get one

      Done one a few months ago,still waiting on a follow up questionnaire.

    37. Les Wilson says:

      Andy-B says:

      Andy do not worry the BBC will find a way to fill their agenda.They will still twist and manipulate, who will stop them. If you think the E Commission will, well even if they did anything against the BBC would not go past soundbite and any consequences, if any.
      Would take that long that the referendum will be over, job done.

    38. Kev says:

      Its a propaganda war alright and hiding bad news is a huge part of it – no different to the US refusing to count civilian casulties during the Iraq War(s) or deciding not to show footage of their dead soldiers arriving back in coffins.

    39. Greannach says:

      Goldenayr:

      I thought that would be the case, but hoped otherwise (not a realistic hope)!

    40. Juteman says:

      I spoke to someone today that told me every male in his brothers primary school class was dead. Most of them died of, or had health problems related to, alcohol and substance abuse. He was 53 years old.
      This is why i want independence.

    41. haud on the noo says:

      Re the 16 week period and probable complaints against the BBC (just chosen as a random example..). So what if there is bias and a complaint is processed and accepted ? What sanction is there in any meaningful manner ?

      Surely given the media’s current behavior they will just carry on regardless anyway.

    42. msean says:

      I felt that she tried to get him to get back ‘on message’ but it failed,instead trying to spin it as also discrediting The Scottish Government(which I noticed was referred to as an executive).

      o/t I was listening to France24 earlier and they did a wee report on the indyref,but the said there were around 30% yes,40% no and the rest undecided.30% yes?

    43. cath says:

      Not only have they buried it but they’ve instead run with concerted attacks on Salmond and Swinney for pointing out the figures are ludicrous while not being able to provide an absolute, certain “true cost” for the bloody obvious reason that would be impossible prior to negotiation and asset share.

      They are just ridiculing the £250m estimate which is actually Dunleavy’s and Salmond has simply said sounds reasonable.

      How the hell they can sleep at night I have no idea. I hope after a yes we get the brand new media we deserve.

    44. mr thms says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27627154

      “Police Scotland stopped and searched thousands of children between the ages of eight and 12 last year, according to data obtained by BBC Scotland.

      Officers carried out 2,912 searches on children in that age group between April and December 2013.

      The figures were revealed ahead of the Scottish Police Authority publishing a review of the stop and search tactic.

      Police Scotland said a total of 640,699 searches were carried out across the 12 months to the end of March.

      The figure is three times higher than the 222,315 searches conducted by London’s Metropolitan force, which polices a population greater than that of Scotland.”

      continues

      “The figures obtained by BBC Scotland, through a Freedom of Information request, showed that about 16% of the searches involving children in the eight to 12 age group yielded positive results.”

      This article is from last August..

      http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/7883-nhs-freedom-of-information-requests-from-bbc-has-surged-since-snp-took-office

      “Freedom of Information requests submitted by the BBC to Scotland’s health boards have increased dramatically since the SNP came to power, it has emerged.

      Information obtained by Newsnet Scotland has revealed that BBC Scotland FoI requests increased by almost seven hundred per cent when compared with Labour’s last year in power at Holyrood.”

      Do you think the BBC in Scotland has an agenda?

    45. Nigel says:

      The paradox of the papers covering things up is that if they did as the good Rev said and had a week long spree on the Treasury report – drip fed the news over seven days with scathing assessment and analysis, circulation would have probably gone through the roof. In pure business terms, hiding this story (and many others) is commercial stupidity by any publication. On the other edge of the blade, how much damage has really been done to paper circulation in the long term, no matter the result in Sept? As the good Rev loves to say: Tick, Tock…

      http://nairnyes.wordpress.com/

    46. Harry says:

      Slightly O/T In this week’s Hamilton Advertiser we once again have Jimmy Hood in his monthly column referring to our democratically elected First Minister as “Salmond”. I have written to them pointing out that politeness costs nothing and that you’ll never hear AS refer to anybody by their surname. To be precise, it was “Salmond and his cybernats” Lovely guy, so he is. This is my third letter to them in recent weeks on indy issues, none published so far.

      Yes car stickers and Yes windaes are few and far between in Hamilton but I spotted a Yes car in a nearby street this morning, fair made my day! So that’s at least five of us in the town. Any Yes Hamiltonians reading this, get your fingers out and get a sticker on your car. Let’s normalise YES!

    47. Flower of Scotland says:

      @david anderson

      I agree with you! Stu is running a superb site and has helped us to gain an outlet for our views and grievances. I’m on my own and seem to be in a unique position of being surrounded by friends and some family who are voting NO! I’m managing to keep my sanity by reading and posting with my friends on Wings! Have a great time tonight folks! Wish I could be there!

    48. Famous15 says:

      No names etc but talk of refusing reconciliation or worse makes me wonder at the motives of the writers. Nothing would guarantee a no vote more than stupid tough talk.

      A tactful smiling answer wins friends but also shows you are confident in your opinions.

      The foreign press will start increasing their interest and so far they are amazed at how civilised the YES campaign is in argument. They are gobsmacked at the deceit of the NO campaign.

      It is a beautiful evening and I am off out to deliver YES newspapers.

    49. MajorBloodnok says:

      @Flower of Scotland

      I find an interesting gambit with No voters is to ask them to think carefully about who they think is going to win the next UK general election and then how that might affect Scotland if we’re still in the UK.

      On topic – I like this Prof Dunleavy chap and I thought the interviewer gave him ample time to point out the Treasury’s abject failures. I almost feel sorry for those poor young wet-behind-the-ears Treasury interns getting the boot because they’re not up to snuff – apart from Danny Alexander that is – he’s deserves it.

    50. Alba4Eva says:

      Flower of Scotland… don’t give up with friends and family. Find interesting ways to bring up conversation, try keeping it light and funny and hit with stuff like this audio clip from Stu.

      Sow the seeds and the flowers of enlightenment will grow. 😉

    51. Murray McCallum says:

      It will have been said before, but the Treasury paper seems to be a clear breach of the Civil Service Code.

      http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/civil-service-code-2010.pdf

      The “Integrity” and “Honesty” standards have clearly not been adhered to. Phrases like professionalism; facts set out truthfully; correct errors asap; and must not deceive others, seem to jump out at me.

      Prof Dunleavy himself (in the recording) points to Treasury staff having neither read nor understood his research.

      By their own Civil Service Code the Treasury must correct and re-issue their paper. Prof Dunleavy suggests a c.£250 million start up cost.

    52. MajorBloodnok says:

      By the way, sorry I can’t be at the Counting House tonight. However, I will be on the YES stall at the Meadows in Edinburgh tomorrow (1030-1230 weather permitting) should anyone want to drop by for a chat and a free balloon.

    53. Camz says:

      I only look at BBC articles if they are politically neutral (i.e. not political articles…)

      Sad really.

    54. Camz says:

      Meanwhile, Johann Lamont takes a tour of B&Q, and feels right at home:

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/bq-boss-yes-vote-would-put-pause-on-our-investment-in-scotland.1401450138

      …with the other tools.

    55. David Agnew says:

      BBC was desperate to somehow make the treasury report seem relevant. It’ll give up on this and look for a new avenue of ignorance from which to base its attacks.

    56. James Sneddon says:

      Hi Major. Do you mean the YES stall at the Meadow Festival? If so you may be a week early as I’m sure it’s the 7/8th of June. Apologies if I’m off the mark

    57. msean says:

      Re B&Q,others will fill their spot.

    58. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      O/T – Any of you ‘lurkers’ that are having or planning a drink in Glagow city centre this evening, please get yourselves round to the Counting House in George Square any time from say 7pm onwards, for the 2nd Glasgow gathering of Cybernats and Cybernatesses.

      Just sayin’

    59. lumilumi says:

      I really despair at the state of the media in Scotland.

      Well-functioning media is one of the prerequisites of a true democracy. It’s symptomatic that the UK establishment aren’t worried about a dysfunctional media. It suits them just fine.

      Meanwhile, the UK have slipped four places to no. 33 in the World Press Freedom Index. All the Nordic countries are in the top 10, the rest top 10 are other small, independent countries. It seems that in some things big is not better.

      http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php

      As to the set-up costs of a newly independent Scotland. One thing that really irks me is that the NO mob always seem to assume that an indy Scotland would be just as wasteful and incompetent as Westminster/Whitehall.

      Prof Dunleavy pointed out that SG already do governance/civil service in a far more modern and efficient way than Westminter/Whitehall.

      Yes, setting up a new, independent country will incur some short-term costs, but I think people in Scotland will be surprised how much money can be saved long-term if it isn’t “recycled” through London (where a lot of the money will stick).

      Not to mention all the civil service jobs in Scotland instead of London, and the civil servant’s tax money flowing to Scotland’s Treasury, and their disposable income being spent in Scotland. What a boost to the Scottish economy!

    60. Croompenstein says:

      Ponsonby’s doom and gloom tour has ended in Ayrshire..thank F*ck. Once again it would seem that no-one in Ayrshire is voting yes.

      He never changed his clothes all week and he hasn’t changed his unionist spots either.

    61. msean says:

      So it might seem,but it isn’t true.Plenty yes in Ayrshire.

    62. Kenny says:

      msean – Prof. Dunleavy referred to how the Scottish Executive is run. I took it to mean the Scottish civil service rather that the Scottish Government. I wouldn’t worry about it.

    63. gordoz says:

      O/T : GREAT NEWS of BBC Scotland Protest.

      A BBC bias protest has been organised !

      Sun, Jun 1 @ 12pm at BBC Scotland Television Studio | This is a peaceful protest as we are aware of the bias from the BBC and we wish for fair coverage of the Scottish independence debate.twtvite.com (Take along ‘STV / ‘Ponsonby Out’ banners as well!)

      https://www.facebook.com/events/1425640054368278/1425915757674041/?notif_t=plan_mall_activity

      Lets get as many there, from WoS as we can.

    64. Stuart Black says:

      Off topic and no bones about it. Thanks Rev for this re-tweet regarding Maryhill Food Bank, we delivered a carload this afternoon on the basis of the tweet, and they are still seriously under stocked. As usual, there is ample amounts of dried pasta and rice, but a serious shortage of sanitary goods, toilet rolls, soaps, toothbrushes and toothpaste, nappies, shampoo and all the stuff that isn’t the obvious things to donate.

      Julie phoned us afterwards to say thanks, she has been panicked by the shortages, but she says that they will be contacting 15 families that they couldn’t provide for properly before. As always, my rage at the very existence of these food banks, in a country so naturally wealthy and resource rich as Scotland, is tempered by my admiration for the people who keep them going, giving their time and effort to ensure people get the basics that we all take for granted.

      For those interested, here’s Julie and others in their own words.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psBVsCEHaoQ

      Anyone who can possibly help out here please do.

      And on a cheerier note, I hope all you Counting House revellers have a brilliant time, best wishes to you all. 🙂

    65. Stuart Black says:

      Missed out the retweet, ho-hum. 😉

      https://twitter.com/MaryhillBank/status/472075113337462784

    66. Stuart Black says:

      Grammar’s bloody awful too… 😉

    67. Andy smith says:

      O/T There seems to be a problem on Facebook with SNP posts, it doesn’t let you register as a ‘like’
      Taking long time to get it fixed.

    68. gordoz says:

      O/T : More info on BBC Scotland Protest / Demo here blow

      Sun – June 1st 2014 Glasgow

      http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9267-snap-protest-against-bbc-referendum-bias-set-to-take-place

    69. MajorBloodnok says:

      Hello James Sneddon!

      YES Scotland will have a stall at the Meadows Festival on 7/8 June, whereas YES Marchmont is covering all the other weekends up to the referendum.

      Plus, YES Marchmont hosts conspiratorial meetings in the downstairs ‘Cellar Monkey’ bit of the Argyle Bar near the Meadows every other Tuesday from 1930 onwards (I think).

    70. the Penman says:

      I liked how he pointed out that the Scottish Executive (the Scottish Government) up here is run in a much more efficient and cost-effective way than Whitehall is in London. Another Union dividend, keeping on paying for all those bloated Westminster departments when we could run our own better.

    71. lumilumi says:

      @ Stuart Black

      I’m so glad that there are people like you and all the food bank volunteers who to try and patch up the failings of the UK state.

      A rich country like the UK/Scotland shouldn’t have food banks. They’re a result of neolib politics and the widening equality gap.

      Finland has far less income inequality than the UK. Hardly anybody is stinking rich in Finland, but worryingly the income gap is widening.

      Finland went through a severe depression in the early 1990s and I lived next door to a Salvation Army hostel and saw the “bread lines” i.e. people queuing to the SA food bank.

      The queues got shorter and then disappeared when the economy was booming but now the queues are growing again. It’s not because Finland is independent, it’s because our elected politicians have failed with their taxation, social security etc. policies. I don’t like the way Finland is moving nowadays. 🙁

    72. bjsalba says:

      Prof Dunleavy says said he is not an economist.

      But SNP has at least one.

      Look at FMs CV.

    73. lumilumi says:

      More about the World Press Freedom Index I mentioned in an earlier post. It’s compiled by Reporters Without Borders, an international NGO of journalists.

      Obvious problems for press freedom are censorship, threats and actual physical harm (including death) to journalists, in the “developed” world problems include concentrated media ownership and too cozy relationship between the political elite and media owners.

      This is from the RWB report, these two bits really struck me.

      http://rsf.org/index2014/en-eu.php

      Despite the European Union’s good showing in the press freedom index, regrettable developments have sullied the performance of some countries as regards protection of freedom of information. They include the United Kingdom…

      … By identifying journalism with terrorism with such disturbing ease, the UK authorities are following one of the most widespread practices of authoritarian regimes…

    74. Stuart Black says:

      Yeah, lumilumi, but we need to prioritise the needs of the bankers and the corporate masters of the universe before feeding the scum, that’s the British way, no?

      I’m sorry to hear that Finland is moving in that same direction, you’ll need to stamp down harder on those pesky politicians. Good luck with that. 😉

    75. alexicon says:

      Sorry for the O/T, but I just had to share this from the Guardians Scottish Independence live blog.

      It seems we’ve been getting it wrong in trying to get undecided voters to go along to YES meeting and convincing them of the merits of Independence.

      An easier way would be to get them to go along to a BT meeting held by Alistair Darling.

      Kat Heathcot on how the no campaign convinced her to vote yes:

      ?“I became aware of a series of presentations by Alistair Darling and decided to go along to one – a natural thing for me to do as a long time Labour member, although I had given up membership during the Blair years …

      I was appalled by what I heard. Not only did I not like the tone, but as a small business owner with a background in energy, shipping and business management, I knew that some of the statements were half truths at best.

      So, rather ironically, I realised it was time to look more closely at what was going on. I don’t think anyone with my background could have sat in that rather nasty presentation and not done the same thing.”

      Job done.

      http://archive.today/vgWXt

    76. James Sneddon says:

      Sorry Major, TheArgyle bar has many fond memories of my mis spent youth. The first pub I went to where your feet didn’t stick to the floor. My first pub was the Captains Cabin in Gracemount which had the world’s most sticky carpet! Which part of the Meadows is the Marchmont stall in? Love to pop in on Tuesdays but that’s a dialysis night I’m afraid. I’ve a dutch pal coming over next week and I’m planning on taking him to Meadow festival and the YES stall as he’s interested in what’s going on over here.

    77. Meindevon says:

      Re the story about b&q Lordy man advising the public against voting yes as it might interfere somehow with his future plans ( possibly leaving the eu if we vote no doesn’t seem to be an issue), I have a Homebase and a b&q right next to each other near me.

      Guess which one will not be getting used from now on?!

    78. lumilumi says:

      @ bjsalba

      I’m not too convinced about economists.

      They’re fairly OK when analysing stuff after the fact but pretty useless in predicting the future. It seems to me that different economic theories are much like religions, you believe in them, close your eyes to anything counter your theory and make your research fit the agenda.

      I think the basic failing of the “science” of economics is that they assume that people will always make rational decisions.

      Most of the time, people do not make rational decisions. Usually they don’t have all the facts or the time to weigh them or just can’t be bothered, and just go with a “feeling”.

      Even the UK-sainted bankers don’t make rational decisions. Sometimes they just take insane risks high on adrenaline and greedy for bonuses, and sometimes they pull it off, sometimes the taxpayers end up paying for their hubris.

      Economists do valuable work but they shouldn’t be made into some be all and end all. They’re just social scientists with numbers, or accountants with a veneer of academia.

    79. Democracy Reborn says:

      Dunleavy:-

      “not a viable way of extrapolating from our figures…”

      Treasury analysis “very crude misinformation”.

      Welcome to the modern-day Orwellian UK Ministry of Truth.

    80. As the Scottish media is so woeful, how are they going to perform after a Yes vote. Will they step up to the plate, or are they going to continue to snipe from the sidelines?

    81. Horseboy says:

      Found this on IndyScotRadio:

      “YES CAMPAIGNERS are organising a peaceful protest outside BBC Glasgow this Sunday, 1st June, at midday.

      They have asked that everyone shares this post to ensure optimum turnout.

      THE YES BUS WILL BE THERE.

      This is a protest against BBC bias and the omission of relevant facts.

      People are suitably sickened by the BBC and this week, we will have our chance to tell them how we feel and how they are ruining this referendum with their Westminster leanings.

      Please bring a herald if you have one and if you have more than one, please bring them along to share to highlight our strength, the power we actually have and to let them know we have had enough.

      Thank you.”

      http://www.indyscotradio.org

    82. david anderson says:

      Flower of Scotland

      I understand your situation and we just have to accept that there are people who are NO voters and that there are a large number of them. Unfortunately for you it seems you are somewhat surrounded and I feel for you if that is the case, I know I would find it difficult. I am glad you are finding through this and other sites that you are most definately not alone and that you are a part of a truly positive social movement. I hope that can carry you through until the 19th when we hopefully acheive our aim. I imagine though, that some of those you have talked with will at least stop and think even if they don’t say it outright to you so I hope you know that everyone appreciates all efforts towards the goal we seek together. Chin up mate!

    83. Feil Gype says:

      ‘and wonder just how outrageously the defenders of the Union would have to act to make the front pages of a Scottish newspaper.’

      Alistair Darling in a mankini wid dae it im sure……

    84. MajorBloodnok says:

      @James Sneddon

      The regular YES stall is at the ‘crossroads’ at the foot of Middle Meadow Walk, just down from Peter’s Yard.

      As for Gracemount, I actually attended the primary school there some time ago but was never in the Captain’s Cabin (a lucky escape it sounds like).

    85. balgayboy says:

      16 week regulated period starting today. Time to walk the walk now boys & girls, no more bitching about the MSM and our old friend BBC as nothing will change with them

      Got to get out there now and do the business whatever it takes to get the right result.

      YES

    86. James123 says:

      I’ve heard a few mentions on the BBC along the lines of;
      “there’s a lot of guess work involved in economics”
      “in reality it’s extremely difficult to determine what will happen in the future”
      “it depends on which sources they use to calculate their sums”
      “so really its hard to say who is wrong and who is right”.

      Funny I didn’t hear much of that when the IFS produced their 50 year forecast for Scotland, it was presented by the BBC as absolute fact.

    87. Juan P says:

      If you can’t attend the protest against BBC Bias on the 1st June then you can still help.

      You can protest peacefully and lawfully by cancelling your license and only using your television to watch catch-up or on demand services.

      The BBC themselves accept it is not a criminal offence to do so:

      http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/how-to-tell-us-you-dont-watch-tv-top12

      10,000 people turning up at Pacific Quay may or may not necessarily make a difference. Look how they tried to misrepresent the numbers attending the rally for independence last year.

      100,000+ people cancelling their TV license en masse on the 1st June will.

    88. velofello says:

      Are we all being a niave in expecting the BBC to adopt an unbiased reporting stance in the run up to Sept 18? What if they don’t and simply continue as Better Together propagandists?

      If there is a No vote, a Chilcot style “long grass” enquiry with a gentle rap on the knuckles for being ” little (snigger) inconsistent in reporting content”.In the event of a Yes vote a new broom at Pacific Quay.

    89. Juan P says:

      Oh and agains courtesy of the BBC.

      Remember and ask for a refund when you cancel:

      “Refund of current TV Licence. If you have any quarters (3, 6 or 9 months) left on your TV Licence and you will not watch or record TV again before the licence expires you can apply for a refund. Please make it clear in your application that you will still be residing at the same address”

    90. lumilumi says:

      Feil Gype @ 8.25pm

      Alistair Darling in a mankini wid dae it im sure……

      Oh, thanks a lot! I’m going to have nightmares now!

    91. Kirsty says:

      Famous15

      You have no idea how much I wish people would stop accusing anyone they disagree with of having “ulterior motives”.

    92. call me dave says:

      @James123

      Spot on there and many more examples of this will be slipped into the dialogue until the vote. Already the shamefully eye watering figures from Danny boy have been swept under the carpet.

      I noted the Express yesterday saying the SNP
      ‘haven’t a clue what independence will cost’ muddying the water is all they have when the tide turns against them.

      I imagine the CH excursion will be in full swing now, hope they enjoy it.

    93. K1 says:

      @Juteman…this is one of my reasons too J, two younger brothers, the youngest died two years ago, heroin addiction since he was 14, didn’t see his 44th birthday. The next youngest,47, heading the same way…I see him on the streets playing his guitar, essentially begging for money, breaks my heart. Enough.

    94. Fireproofjim says:

      Numerous people have mentioned the benefit to our economy of having our own civil service without having to filter the costs through London, but few have mentioned all the embassies and consulates which will instantly flock to Scotland. Copenhagen has over one hundred, all employing high earning local staff and buying local services.
      Additionally international trade missions and new company headquarters will arrive, as they do in all independent countries, with subsequent benefits to everybody in the hospitality industry, who will also benefit from a greatly increased number of tourists eager to sample this new country.
      What’s not to like?

    95. James Bane says:

      Here is the thing I don’t get Rev, you are English and live in England so you don’t have any say in the referendum result yet you lecture the Scottish press about what they should and should not focus on?????

      I have no say in any future Basque country referendum so won’t tell the media in that country what they can and can’t do.

      You seem to like Scotland a lot but not enough to actually live here.

    96. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Wonderful atmosphere here at the Counting House in Glasgow tonight.

      So many of the Wingers are here.

      I like a wee quiet night.

      It will be YES.

    97. Truth says:

      @Fireproofjim

      Well said. Independence will be a jobs bonanza!

      OT Livestream for counting house here:

      http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3004596

    98. Dorothy Devine says:

      So where are the pics Calgacus?
      I can’t be there but I could live and enjoy vicariously.

    99. col says:

      Had a wander round the counting house, couldn’t see any wingers ???? maybe i missed it

    100. velofello says:

      Sorry,had to miss the Counting House tonight. Puncture on the way to Glasgow this afternoon and simply couldn’t have my wife drive back to Ayrshire alone without a spare tyre.

    101. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      There seems to be some confusion about the Electoral Commission and the BBC. This is how I think it works…

      The electoral commission has nothing to do with the BBC at all. It regulates the No and Yes campaigns and has no authority over the MSM or the TV. So do not expect them to do anything against the BBC during the campaign period.

      OFCOM regulates the independent radio and TV companies and this is the place to complain to if you think any of them are biased against the Yes (or No) Campaigns.

      OFCOM also regulates the BBC for all the trivia (bad language, nudity, poor taste, etc) but importantly it does not have any authority over the BBC on the two most important issues – bias and accuracy. That is the responsibility of the BBC Trust – very convenient. See…

      http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/tv-and-radio/accuracy-or-bias-on-the-bbc/

      http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/how-ofcom-is-run/committees/ofcom-bbc-joint-steering-group/memorandum-of-understanding-between-the-office-of-communications-ofcom-and-the-bbc-trust/
      (this also has a link to the BBC charter and agreement with the “impartiality” bits).

      So if you have issues with the BBC just cut out all the middlemen, they have no authority to do anything, just go straight to the BBC Trust.
      Phone number – 03700 103 100.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/our_work/complaints_and_appeals/

      I will be at the demo at PQ on Sunday. See you there!

    102. davidhk says:

      Is it just me or are Louise white and Kaye Adams on BBC morning call running scared of callers who dare to speak their mind, anyone who tries to put a yes point across are immediately told its off topic and are instantly dismissed . You can also smell of he BBC bias over the airwaves

    103. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Dorothy Devine says:
      So where are the pics Calgacus?

      Here you go:-

      http://i.imgur.com/H3YxG6u.jpg

      http://i.imgur.com/IThZQPx.jpg

      http://i.imgur.com/iD3F29g.jpg

    104. Appleby says:

      Utter scumbags.

      The Scottish media are vile, black-souled creatures and I hope every one of their betrayals, lies and attempts to bury the truth are remembered for generations and a black mark is put next to the name of every journalist involved, so as everyone remembers not to trust these serpents.

      It is so transparent at this point that they are entirely one sided and are deliberately burying bad news for the unionists and making mountains out of molehills in desperation to attack the Yes campaign that they are only damning themselves further by not having the decency to at least be open about their extreme partisanship in every edition.

    105. Appleby says:

      I will note that there are of course one or two few exceptions in the neutral and Yes camps but by and large they are all overdue for the bin.

    106. Liquidlenny says:

      That was busy in the counting house so much so it was difficult to mingle but an enjoyable evening all the same thanks to ian brotherhood for organising he was gobsmacked when he won a copy of his own book in the raffle!

    107. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      ‘Here is the thing I don’t get Rev, you are English and live in England”

      I’m not English, you tool.

    108. HenBroon says:

      On the BBC. I have not paid the licence fee for 2 years now. I have had numerous visits and hundreds of letters telling me I am being investigate and what to expect in court blah de blah. I am prepared to go to jail if it ever came to that.

      However the other day I spat out my morning coffee (8.30) as I watched a ford Transit van with “BBC Licence Enforcement Unit” down the side of it and along the back. My steet is a cul de sac so the muppet driving had to do a ten point turn at the bottom as there were builders in the street.

      It was so blatantly obvious. The driver obviously was working from a list of non payers as he looked at my house as he drove out.

      Then a day later I saw the same van (I logged the reg number) in another part of town, parked out side a Tesco. So seeing no one around I went over and looked inside. IT WAS FUCKING EMPTY.

      http://watchkeeperslog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/the-enforcement-van.html

    109. bjsalba says:

      It suddenly dawned on me that the Treasury isn’t really knowingly lying or doing anything out of the ordinary with their guestimate on the cost of an Independent government.

      Its the way they normally do things in Westminster. Duh! Silly me. I forgot. I’ve become used to the current Scottish Government who don’t do it that way.

      You have to factor in all the juicy private contracts for your family and friends, all the unnecessary luxuries and perks for the politicians, agency chiefs, armed forces brass, top civil servants, etc.

      Its quite easy to get to billions if you include those in your figures.

      The only thing different they are doing is telling you up front instead of in dribs and drabs as they go along!

    110. Druidpld says:

      The positive story here would be “Expert behind Treasury report confirms that a Scottish Government would be more efficient than the UK”

      Thats one message the UK government definitely does not want out there. We should be shouting froom the roof tops that their own chosen expert thinks that we would save money on bureaucracy in an iScotland.

    111. Appleby says:

      A guy I knew in a pub worked for the licence fee “hunters”. He’d park his van and get a few pints and then drive off again back to work. So one day I got a good look inside the van. It was hilarious. It was like something out of bad old sci-fi. He said himself it was all for show. Bakalite and blinking lights, etc. Original Star Trek was more convincing. This wasn’t that many years ago either and they were still driving these faked up vans around.

      They just use a print off of the list of houses without licences and hassle those ones. It’s childishly simple for them.



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