Getting what you wish for
The No camp really do seem to be the world’s worst winners. In a mischievous piece of trolling today, the First Minister announced that the SNP’s policy of not voting on English matters at Westminster was to come to an end, and that it would intervene for the protection of the NHS, on the reasonable grounds of avoiding Barnett cuts to the Scottish budget were privatisation south of the border to lead to lower spending.
The reaction from Labour and the Tories was predictable, with the latter accusing Sturgeon of throwing principle “out the window”. George Osborne, furthermore, was quoted in the Telegraph telling a Commons committee that:
And readers might be forgiven for thinking “Hang on, isn’t that what you wanted?”
Because while the infamous “Vow” promised Scots that a No vote was still a vote for change, there was no mention of “English votes for English laws”. (Nor would there have been, because Labour object bitterly to the idea.)
Nor was EVEL mentioned on the “timetable for change” pledged by Gordon Brown and “Better Together”. No quid pro quo was mentioned as a condition of the promised extra devolution. The three leaders begged Scotland to stay in the UK, and by extension for its MPs to stay in the UK Parliament.
And if Scotland is an equal partner in the UK, then its MPs must be equal to those from anywhere else. And if the UK is a democracy then SNP MPs must logically be as entitled as anyone to vote in that Parliament. So there’s no difference between a Chancellor “beholden on Scottish Nationalist votes” and one beholden to Lib Dem votes or UKIP votes or Ulster Unionist votes or Green votes.
The UK government is chosen by the people of the whole UK, including Scotland, and if you can’t convince them to give you a majority then that’s tough luck – you have to work with whoever they give you. The SNP tried to remove their MPs from George Osborne’s parliament, but he and his friends in Labour and the Lib Dems insisted that they stay, and indeed played every dirty trick in the book to ensure it happened.
So the Chancellor, whoever it might be in May, has made their bed and must lie in it. They wanted Scotland’s MPs in their Parliament, they got them, and now they have to deal with the consequences like adults instead of bleating and whining about it every other day. If they don’t like it, we have a solution.
Ah so … the pigeon’s are coming home to roost! 😛
Methinks the wee cock-eyed pigeon keeper a.k.a. Ozzy Osborne ( NO not THAT Ozzy I mean the talentless one! 😉 ) is not so happy at what he is seeing roosting in the pigeon loft! 😀
I could try explaining sets and intersections.
It’s worse than Father Ted explaining ‘these cows are far away..’
Scotland empowered is a beautiful thing
Loved Nicola’s comment today ‘We’re a team’ – damn right we are
Nick Robinson didnt seem to understand the sincerity of that comment, fascinating times
Almost anything that comes from the SNP is meet with a predictable knee jerk reaction and rejection from unionists, SLAB are probably the worst culprits given the Bain principle. The Tories and Lib Dems are usually just behind. Remember unionists’ response to the SG wanting to and giving the vote to sixteen years old in the referendum?
Can I get three guesses to what the answer is?
🙂
FREEDOM!!!!!
They wanted Scotland’s MPs in their Parliament, they got them, and now they have to deal with the consequences like adults instead of bleating and whining about it every day. If they don’t like it, we have a solution.
‘nough said for me !
Just saw jim Thunderbirds murphy on tv for uk labour party.
Love it, Stu.
Do I hear the pace picking up?
Oh what a tangled Web they wove…… it’s
haunting them now.
Also worth pointing out that for almost the entirety of John Major’s term in office, the Tories where ‘beholden’ to the Ulster Unionists.
The SNP REALLY needs to back off from this triumphalist attitude. It could swing English votes to the Tories and then we’re all fucked. Moreover, it will piss English folk off, and we really don’t want that. If they want to push this angle though, they shouldn’t sell it as just “we want to save our NHS.” It should be “no taxation without representation.” If we’re paying for their “national” infrastructure, we can vote on ehatever the hell we please.
SoS Rev for going O/T.
My answer to DimJims political broadcast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYeluieiudc
Brilliant piece! There’s nothing but absolute hypocrisy in Westminster. Given that England (through Westminster) has ruled Scotland for THREE CENTURIES, I think it’s only fair that Scotland gets to rule England for the next three centuries!
Putting the referendum aside which gave London quite the fright, so long as the SNP have an almost ineffective six MP’s, the London based British Establishment can all but ignore them.
But 2015 is different. The General Election might well result in a division of SNP MP’s of such number that not only can they be no longer ignored, they may even have a role to play in a coalition government.
So we should not be surprised by the whining from Osborne et al because there is a very real possibility that if the normal rules of engagement are played, a government might be formed that includes members of the SNP or even Plaid Cymru or the Green Party.
These are not the consequences that the British Establishment had in mind when it won the referendum. Far from putting the uppity Scots back in their place, a well funded, independently minded block could well put many noses out of joint.
Having said that, I can see the main English parties doing the unthinkable; forming a chaotic coalition just so long as it keeps the SNP, Plaid Cymru & the Greens out of Downing Street.
A government that is happy to bomb brown people in foreign countries using the most feeble of excuses, is capable of just about anything.
SVEL – bring it on.
Don’t forget we are supposed to be Better Together!
Better together, tee hee. Keep the pressure on!
‘I think it would be very unfair to ENGLAND if we had a Chancellor of the Exchequer who was beholden on Scottish Nationalist votes in the next Parliament.’
Fixed that for you, Osbourne.
Looks like the territorial integrity of the state is being impugned as we speak. Shame.
Now come on Rev-how do you expect the overgrown schoolboys of Westmonster to behave like adults? Not capable of it surely on recent form?
Cameron’s face when he announced EVEL an hour after the Referendum result said it all for me. ‘You lost now do as you’re told & get back in your box you uppity Jocks. You will pay for your disloyalty to UKOK from now till kingdom come.’ I paraphrase a little there but you get my drift, I’m sure.
Well it seems the Scots weren’t even listening :-)and still aren’t listening 😉
Westmonster wants to have its cake & eat it. Not how the real world works though is it? It seems that they want Scots as part of the UK but don’t want their voice to be heard & it would seem that the Scots don’t agree with that. Bloody good job too 🙂 What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
WM has shafted Scotland so many times that it would seem that Scots have had enough. Go on guys & gals stick it to them. Make this coming election one to remember.
One final thought-Nicola Sturgeon -Bloody good show on saying SNP will vote on selected English laws. That’s really put the cat amongst the pigeons now. Excellent news!
“So the Chancellor, whoever it might be in May, has made their bed and must lie in it.”
But across teamGB media and BBC, red and blue tory boys are right.
Rancid Graun headline says Murphy’s failed already, Slab on their way out in May but this CiF gives me goose bumps.
DialMforMurdo
21 January 2015 5:03pm
It’s coming yet for a’a that…
Osbourne’s calculated ploy is a kite-flying job to recce on reaction to reducing Scots MP rights:
1) Plays to voters south of the border still angry and agitated about the whole “ScotNat Alex Salmond” thing (as one described it to me last summer);
2) It puts Labour on the back foot because it’s difficult to argue the complexities via an unsympathetic media.
3) Moreover it will confuse monkey-brained Scottish Labour MPs desperate to rein in SNP influence now and in the future; most of them are at best confused about their Scots identity and might not be able to articulate the arguments against, partly from fear of handing the agenda to the SNP up here.
4) If the press, broadcasters and others in Parliament let him away with it, he can begin to tease out a tacit consensus that Scots MPs are second class (let’s not get into Labour monkeys here and stick to the general principle)
3) Even if not, it stigmatises a minority Labour administration taking any support from the SNP (or Plaid)
4) Pushes the agenda for EVEL, and
5) The worst that can happen (he thinks) is that it will fuel SNP votes and weaken Labour.
6) If it hammers another nail in the coffin of the Union, so be it; Gideon has confidence the Establishment can string that out and still hold the whip hand in any separation talks.
I don’t agree with Gideon’s analysis, necessarily, I simply think this is the kind of calculation he’s made.
… When later asked whether that meant it was also wrong for the UK Government to be “beholden to Northern Irish votes” – given the possibility of a pact between the Tories & DUP – Mr Osbourne dodged & returned back to SNP.
Of course he did. Slippery odious toad.
Well, according to the Labour political broadcast, the choice is between “change” or “more of the same” in May, so I’m guessing Jim Murphy has finally realised the inevitable and is urging us all to vote SNP.
It could be I wasn’t paying attention.
Here F***ing here..
nothing else I can say that apart from..
From what I’ve seen on the BBC website and heard on Radio2 news at 6, the SNP voting on the English NHS is being portrayed as a treacherous act. How dare they intervene on our hallowed soon to be privitised NHS, and thier linked Block Pocket Money Grant.
HOW DARE THEY.. stamps fist down on copy of the FT in the private boys club above a London sex shop in So-Ho (you can tell it’s a tory eh..)
They begged for us to stay, so here we are.. Like an unwelcome guest at a Tupperware party.. Now, where do I vote to help save the NHS.
Typical. Spend two years wanting to protect the Union then complain when we have to audacity to participate in that Democracy they tripped over themselves to save..
Pesky Scots..
What a tangled mess this rigged no vote has left. Surely a clean break was the only solution? Looks like this bankrupt union is on it’s last legs.
I not that the EBC has provided wall to wall coverage of this today. It’s like they are trying to make people dislike Scotland just months after helping scare Scotland into voting no.
This is one of the reasons I voted yes. I have had enough of being abused by the like of Osborne. Happy to take and spend Scotland’s wealth, but also happy to call us scroungers to our face. Now the idea that a Scottish party with no English branch, might have some influence, then just look how these right honorable gentlemen squirm. The hate absolutely hate the idea of Scotland contributing more than its wealth.
Britishness – ewww – it makes my flesh creep.
Well you didn’t think the British were anything or ever will be anything other than hypocrites Stu,did you? I mean really.
Short, punchy, to the point. Devastating.
I don’t think we’ve heard the last of this. The Tories, indignant as they are that we even dared to hold a referendum on breaking up the UK, are hell-bent on punishing us. One way or another, we will see Scottish MPs being made a second class type of MP. We have already seen Poly Toynbee state (without contradition from either politicians or other political commentators) that it is inconceivable that any Scottish MP will ever hold one of the major offices of state again (Prime Minister, Home Secretary, Chancellor). Second class MPs implies a second class section of the electorate – that’s us.
Is any of this a problem? Well, not really – in my opinion. Scots will not take well to being told they are second class – and as people realise what is happening they will drift towards support for independence. Every time the unionists move against Scotland, every time they treat us with contempt, every penny they take from us, every time they ride rough-shod over our wishes, the closer independence becomes. My only concern is for the more vulnerable members of our society while the unionists go about their work. But we voted for it – we’ll have to take the pain.
Bring it on.
Good on Nicola, its what they wanted wasn’t it. We’re all better together!
Absolutely spot on!
They want Scotland’s financial contribution to the UK but not its participation in how the UK is run.
It takes me back to just before Brown took over and ITN interviewing David Cameron which went along the lines of ‘too many Scots in Government already’ – I wondered at the time what the reaction would’ve been if the word ‘Scots’ was substituted with ‘women’, ‘blacks’, ‘muslims’, or ‘homosexuals’ etc.
It seems no-one else noticed though.
Team Scotland,
Good isn’t it
Westminster shitti.g itself, Murphy begging for votes, BBC can’t get their bias across, Polls skyrocketing, but the funniest thing i saw today was Jenny Marra and it went something like
(Naw but, listen but, see thame but, usyins ur better honest but)
It’s getting to the stage where you don’t need to eat, it’s like food, i feel such satisfaction at their discomfort
I’m not even going to say i hope it lasts, DAMN i said it
George Osborne is hardly aware of the world outwith London, so it’s hard for him to comprehend there is political life as far away as Scotland, a place which only features in his life when he goes deer-stalking.
Mrs Murrell did well in her interview on Channel 4 News.
Osbourne put up Oil taxes 11% (£2Billion) a year in the 2011 Budget, up to 80%+ Then complains the Scottish Gov could cut taxes. Heathrow is subsidised with £Billions of public money. Flights from Scottish airports are taxed. Thatcher, secretly, took all the Oil revenues and cut every manufacturing facility in Scotland. Scottish votes in Westminster have made 0.06% of difference. Yet Osbourne is still bleating on, the Hypocrite. Where will they park Trident, when Scotland is Independent. Devonport or on the Thames. The Unionist Politicans will reap what they sow.
Cut Trident/HS2. Cut the Deficit.
This is what I thought after the referendum result. Right, let’s send as many Independence supporting MP’s down there as possible and rattle a few cages.
We haven’t even sent them yet and I can hear the rattling from here already.
O/T Live indie doing a fundraiser, you can help here
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/livestreaming-to-may-elections-2015/x/2349839
The Civil Service campaigned against Scottish Independence and are holding up the Chilcot Verdict. Who elected them?
The truth is beginning to surface. They can’t hide it. In their heart of hearts, Osborne and chums believe their country is England and they sit in the Parliament of England reigned over by QE2 of England. And, the land to the north, while not really England, is a possession of England, its resources and wealth put there for England’s benefit.
Well that might be the way they see it, it sure isn’t the way we see it!
They have two choices:-
They can accept that they are part of a United Kingdom spread across four countries in Union.
Or, they can stop conspiring to prevent us doing our own thing.
Greater England, isn’t an option!
That is the problem with the brits they want it all their own way. Finally Scotland has a real voice to stand up to those colonial tyrants in the shape of the SNP not north brit branches of fibdumbs/kons/liebour who are in thrall to wastemonster.
Karma is a bitch. Probably been better in the long run for the brits if they had let us win the indy ref in the first place.
The unionists won the vote and want us to accept it. So, until they bring in a law to stop them, all Scots MPs should vote at every single opportunity. No trade off votes, no pairing. Make the rUK MPs turn up and vote as much as possible. Or, in other words, make the Westminster MPs do the job they’re paid to do.
If they get fed up and kick us out……
Yes but they thought the SNP and the yes movement would curl up and die like a wounded animal after a no vote. To be honest a lot of us wondered where we would all be after a no vote. The strange thing is we are stronger and more determined than ever. The no vote has made the SNP the natural choice for the Scottish people now. SLAB just can’t believe their luck. They saw backing a no vote as a way of getting back into Holyrood. Instead they are further away than ever and even worse for them they are about to be obliviated at Westminster. SlAB thought they couldn’t slide any further but they are now near the end as a party in Scotland. The important thing is what will happen to SLAB after a wiepout at Westminster. This will be the end of them and with them the last chance of ever preventing independence.
Does this mean that Osbourne and his pals are now in favour of Scottish independence? Wish they would make up their minds,because after campaigning for a NO vote,the SNP are a UK based party,and as much as they would like an independent Scotland,they have the right to be part of a UK government,best of both worlds and a’ that.
You won,get over it.
The VOW
The Very Obvious Wangle.
we are part of UK? and wasn’t Gordon Brown an actually chancellor, so who’s to say the next chancellor of the exchequer won’t be actually Scottish, is only English approved parties that’s allowed Scottish MP’s calling shots? You Could spin that another way , why should the Scots put up with relying on English votes ?
Anyone else notice the side by side pics of Sturgeon and Murphy on STV News. Subliminal again. A very stern looking Nicola and a beaming Murphy. A bit incongruous when the feature was approval ratings and Murphy’s was in minus territory with Nicola’s disappearing over the horizon.
The absurd comical hypocrisy of George Osborne using the word unfair in anyones direction beggars belief. You would be forgiven for thing it was a sketch from Bremner, Bird and Fortune.
The man can only be described as an absolute tosser.
Being Scottish and a Yes Voter, some of our cousins assume that I’m not too bright, so could I just check this out:
The big Westminster Parties all to a man pleaded to keep Scottish MPs in their Parliament, every member of parliament has one vote cast on any given topic, but they now think that we shouldn’t be
in the parliament if they intend using their given vote.
Messers Cameron and Osborne, go put on your Bullingdon Drinking Suits, go and get Pished on your combined £100,000,000 fortunes, and get it right up the pair of you.
No more NHS sell off profit for you if we can help it!
Fantastic. Get it richt roond them.
He he he!
Now the fun begins!
Minds me o a poem I wrote a while ago ..
AYE WE’LL HAE ANITHER ACT O UNION
WI SCOTIA PLAYIN HOST AN HEID YIN!
I hasten tae add I wis ettlin tae be satirical!
All this squawking, you would think Westmonster had something to hide, The referendum process enlightened the Scottish electorate who now demand better because ‘we are worth it’. God help them once the English catch on. It will take Sir Humphrey to sort that one out.
I tell you these Eton toffs are worse than a bunch of 5 year olds.
First they want something and you tell them no.
Then they keep going on about wanting the same thing and you say no.
They keep going on that they want the same thing … so just for some peace and quiet you say O.K. 😉
NOW they bloody want something completely different. I know women are supposed to fickle minds but Jesus these guys make us look like imperial gods against that lot of fickle gormless eejits! 😀
Whilst I previously agreed with SNP policy to not vote on purely English matters I’ve now changed my mind, just to annoy them. Since so few Scots appear to have the balls to leave the Union and stand on their own perhaps it’s time we incited the English to push us over the cliff?
O/T Independence Live
Livestream now Margaret & Jim Cuthbert talking about economics till 9.30
Live Independence broadcasting Economics with Margaret and Jim Cuthbert.
Not everyone’s cup of tea but a must for political anoraks 😉
And as Albaha said a few posts back they are needing support for their fundraiser. They have provided a superb service to us all over the last year. Think of all the debates and rallies they have covered that none of us would have seen and been part of otherwise. C’mon Wings.
The Civil Service campaigned against Scottish Independence and are holding up the Chilcot Verdict. Who elected them?
More to the point, who pays their bloody colossal wages? Or
“We’re the UKOK civil service and we take your money and then tell you how to vote and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it is there Scotland?, best wishes, Treasury permanent secretary Sir Tory Boy Nicholas Macpherson “
Gidiot obviously never thought through the implications of an even stronger SNP post no vote, no wonder he is bricking it he thought it would never happen and we would just shrivel up and die. A severe miscalculation old chap………..
With the STV Ipsos Mori poll today, things just get more and more interesting! What a team we have, and what a team we are building in our new candidates! Too many Scots?…….they ain’t seen nuthin’ yet…….Our Scottish electorate may have said…No..not yet to Independence……but are taking up position for putting our people in place for deciding direction and control of Westminster. The birth pangs of the “Second” Scottish Enlightenment!!
Kenny says:
21 January, 2015 at 6:49 pm
The SNP REALLY needs to back off from this triumphalist attitude.
Are they triumphalist?
‘excessive celebration of the defeat of one’s enemies or opponents’
Do point out where the SNP defeated their opponents recently? And then behaved in an excessive and celebratory way.
What is happening is the gloves being taken off. That is all. Finally, and still within the apparatus of what passes for democracy in the UK of GB and NI they, the third largest party in said state, are acting within the law, they are acting within their remit as elected representatives at Westminster and within the ethos of their party’s aims – namely the protection of Scotland and the Scots’ political desires.
Triumphalism can be seen in the ‘bayonet the wounded’ comment made by a prominent Unionist, or calling Scotland a ‘laboratory’ and proposing to test out policies there first. There are plenty of other examples, I await the same wrt the SNP’s apparent triumphalism.
Indigo
“Nick Robinson didnt seem to understand the sincerity of that comment, fascinating times”
………… IF nothing else was revealed last Referendum Period then shorely it was Nic Robinson’s total lack of understanding the meaning of sincerity ?…….
“If Heineken did trolling…”, they couldn’t top what Nicola Sturgeon did today!
Anyway, since it’s obvious that to be “kingmakers” in any way, the SNP would have to be prepared to vote on English laws if they’re likely to have any effect on Barnett, which is more than 90% of them at a guess, it’s completely correct that Sturgeon makes this very plain before the General Election, so that it’s certain that the electorate has given its approval to that SNP policy.
Absolutely. They pleaded with us to stay, so if we must remain in this broken union, then these are our terms. Like it or lump it. Suck it up. If you’re not happy, chuck us out.
To sort-of paraphrase Marilyn Monroe, “if you don’t want Scotland when we send a bus-load of SNP MPs to Westminster to demand you do things our way, then you don’t deserve our oil.”
(That was some very tenuous paraphrasing…)
I cannot think of anything that would come before Westminster MPs where the SNP vote would be to the detriment of the rUK electorate.
For God’s Sake!, it’s only mid-January and the Westminster Mob are running aboot like the proverbial chickens……roll on MAY 2015 fur a ringside seat 🙂
Has Eddie Izzard gave us his views/advice on this matter yet?
The SNP are still choosing candidates to fight the General Election, so have hardly even started the battle for votes, but Dim Jim has been banging away with the help of his ‘MSM little helpers’ at the Daily Record BBC et al.
Soon the SNP will have finalised their candidates and will unleash the new 100,000 or so ‘Activist Army’
No one knows quite what will happen when we do this, but I think we can all imagine. 🙂
I have just input the results from the STV poll tonight into both the Scotland votes site and the Electoral calculus site.
Interestingly the Scotland votes site gives:
SNP 56
Labour 2
LibDem’s 1
http://www.scotlandvotes.com/
Meanwhile on the Electoral Calculus site the same figures give:
SNP 55
Labour 4
Tory 0
LibDem’s 0
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.pl?CON=12&LAB=24&LIB=4&NAT=52&type=scotland&display=AllMajoritySorted®orseat=%28none%29&boundary=2010
From the Electoral Calculus site the FOUR surviving Labour seats are:
Glasgow North East Willie Bain
Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill Tom Clarke
Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath Gordon Brown
Glasgow South West Ian Davidson
Of course they give Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath as a Labour hold because they have assumed Gordon Brown will still be standing. However, I’m not certain that will be the case any more. 😉
I know this is just one poll, but I believe it is one in a whole series of polls that are showing a certain *ahem* consistency. Of course as we all know poll figures can be wildly out, 2011 anyone?
However, provided we keep our eyes on the prize and our minds focused on the result I believe that with the humongous effort we are all about to embark upon I do believe that figures such as these are in fact not out with the bounds of possibility. 😀
Well, if Westminster doesn’t wanting the SNP voting on non-Scottish matters, they know what to do about it.
O/T
Prince Andrew has been asked by lawyer to respond under oath re sex with 17 yr old
I was brought up in Cowdenbeath. A donkey with a red rosette would get voted in there.
The Bain principle works both ways, SNP call for the Scots’ MPs to not vote on English Matters, or matters not affecting Scotland, Labour have to oppose, Murphy ‘successfully depends all 40 seats’, no majority on non Scotland matters. All the time anything affecting Barnett affects Scotland, SNP vote.
Anyway, can we reduce VAT or remove it from some items, so that the block grant doesn’t drop too much. Must be someone smart enough to move the cake/biscuit dividing line, I’m sure there are other things.
spot on, rev.
🙂
Great article.
One example of the benefits of electing a host of SNP MPs was highlighted by yesterday’s debate. I read that the SNP and Plaid Cymru were able to table one such debate per parliamentary year out of 20- they’ve had 5 since the start of 2011.
It’s based on number of MPs so if we elect a sizable force then suddenly the SNP, Plaid and the Greens havw a chance to table debates on matters of our interest to the house 3, 4, 5 times a year every year.
Suddenly matters of importance to the people of Scotland are impossible to ignore and gain exposure. Yesterday’s debate, though doomed to failure was the first time in my life I have watched the Commons and heard a debate worthy of a parliament.
Whether there is a confidence and supply arrangement or not our representation will be boosted immeasurably. They wanted us to stay – well shift over the bed a bit. They’ll be screaming for us to leave next!
Scotland stay with us. And STFU.
@David Agnew says: 21 January, 2015 at 7:06 pm:
“Britishness – ewww – it makes my flesh creep.”
What are you then, David_ French, German, Italian or what?
If you are a Scot you have more right to call yourself British than the immigrant English have. The aboriginal people in the north of Britain were never defeated and enslaved even when the Romans enslaved the Southern Britons and the Romans, in around 55 or 54 BC were the first ones to write British history. The Romans stayed in Britain until around 410AD – that’s 465 years but never really occupied Scotland during that time.
The Romans named the north of Britain, Caledonia, and the south of Britain Albion. The south West was Cambria and the island west of Greater Britain the named Hibernia. As they never defeated and occupied Caledonia the natives there remained Britons. The Britons in Albion then invited the Germanic Tribes, (Anglo Saxons), to come to Albion to protect the native south Britons and they took over and called south Britain Angle Land.
We Scots are more British than the immigrant English. Why would you wish them to steal your birth right from you? You are confusing British with the United Kingdom and even then, as there are only two signatory Kingdoms that formed the United Kingdom, you have an equally valid claim to the United Kingdom as they have. The truth is that if Scotland withdraws from the United Kingdom there cannot remain a United Kingdom but we are still all British. They, (England, Wales & N.I), revert to being the Kingdom of England as they were before 1706/7.
BTW: Britain also includes the non-UK, Republic of Ireland, The non-UK Bailiwick of Jersey, The non-UK Bailiwick of Guernsey and the non-UK Isle of Man. You are confusing the United Kingdom as Britain – it is British but not Britain.
Fantastic move.
1. Being unable to ignore or resist criticizing, it now becomes even harder to exclude the SNP from UK wide debate.
2. can’t be ignored by the Media once the tory’s get in a tizzy.
3. labour can’t criticize as they depend on their branch MPs votes anyway, there’s no answer to “well that’s what you do isn’t it.
4. The agenda now becomes “how do we get rid of them altogether” with the attached vilification that’llbe applied across the board to all our no voting chums as well.
5. It’s funny.
Osborne is the Tory strategist so don’t underestimate him. I reckon it was his idea to get Labour to front Better Together with tories pulling their strings.
You can also bet he came up with the EVEL wheeze as well as Cameron isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer to think of something like that.
Caroline Corfield-your post is spot on. I would like to see SNP rescind their policy of not voting on Enlish only matters completely to give WM a taste of what is to come.
SNP may only have 6 MP’s in WM but they’ve won the right to hold 2 debates in 2 weeks -I also see that as meaning the gloves are off.
dakk says:21 January, 2015 at 7:08 pm:
“Well you didn’t think the British were anything or ever will be anything other than hypocrites Stu,did you? I mean really.
You’re bloody well British you numptie! Sheeeesh!
So are the English, Welsh, Irish, Channel Islanders and Manx folks – what you are NOT is English and as there are only two signatories on the treaty of Union when it ends so does the United Kingdom and the three countries that used to comprise the Kingdom of England until 1706/7 revert to being The Kingdom of England, (unless the Welsh and Irish are daft enough to let the English drag then along as members of the English Kingdom).
As Lance-Corporal Jones would very aptly put it, “they don’t like it up ’em! ”
Devolution was fine as long as Holyrood had a Unionist majority.
The Union is fine as long was Scotland sends Unionist MPs South.
Well, things aren’t exactly going to the Unionist agenda, are they?
Perhaps, it’s not a bad thing if, when IndyRef2 comes along in a couple of years time, there is a significant element at Westminster content to see us go!
Cameron had the perfect chance to enact legislation for EV4EL with the McKay Commission.
He ran away from doing so and ducked it because he feared his own tory backbenchers response (as usual) and what the lib dems might do.
So tough luck chum. 😀
All the whining in the world won’t stop it being your fault you did nothing about it when you had the chance.
@galamcennalath says:21 January, 2015 at 7:39 pm:
“The truth is beginning to surface. They can’t hide it. In their heart of hearts, Osborne and chums believe their country is England and they sit in the Parliament of England reigned over by QE2 of England.”
Ah! galamcennalath, but they are indeed in their country of England and their parliament is indeed the de facto parliament of England but they call it the UK parliament.
It legislates for England as the UK and tags wee bits on the ends of UK bills to accommodate the other UK countries. It funds England as the UK and it decides the block grants for the other UK countries and regulates their spending by use of Barnet Consequentials.
It has been that way since they devolved UK powers to only three of the four UK countries and retained Westminster for themselves. Those of us pointing that fact out were ignored by everyone at the time and it is only now the cold hard truth is beginning to dawn. Not that on this particular topic there are several posts indicating the posters do not see themselves as British but see the English as British.
Indeed we have a solution. Problem they have though is:
“They don’t like it up ’em, captain Mainwaring.”
Osborne–“You stupid boy!”
“NHA Party welcomes SNP ready to vote on English health laws and repeal privatisation” – press release
http://nhap.org/nha-party-welcomes-snp-ready-vote-english-health-laws/
Even if the SNP MPs are somehow excluded from casting votes on ‘English’ matters, they could all turn up for the debates anyway, and treat them like the last day of school – bring in Mouse-Trap, Kerplunk, all that sort of stuff.
Funny, still cold outside, but it feels like the temperature’s just gone up.
Given his continual changes of ‘policy’ do you not think he should be referred to as Jim Morphy?
Well Labour/Slab must be bricking it, you can see the strain telling in Smurphy’s face now. The harrowed look is beginning to appear, the make up can’t hide it.
Their SNP is bad mantra is biting them in the ass.
Osborne, similarly starting to panic along with all the Westminster establishment, bring it on.
ronnie anderson says:
Ken Dodd, brilliant choice!
From the article: “And if Scotland is an equal partner in the UK, then its MPs must be equal to those from anywhere else. “
.
Well, let me see if I can put this in context. All George is saying is that we are to be separate but equal. You can find precedent for this legal principle enshrined in US Constitutional Law and later endorsed by the SCOTUS in that celebrated decision, Plessy v. Ferguson.
We have the textbook examples of its actual implementation in two advanced societies whose jurisprudences have much in common with our own. I speak of course of our cousins in the aforementioned United States and in South Africa.
For the first 65 years of the 20th Century this grand experiment bestowed upon America unparalleled economic growth and a disciplined, respectful, society wherein everyone knew their place. The Chancellor only wants what is best for all of us, including the indigenous peoples of the North.
If we examine South African society between 1948, when the legal structure of apartheid was introduced, until some time before the evil of insurgent nationalism in the form of the ANC completed its destruction in 1994, we find a golden era of South African prosperity and order, that advantaged all of its peoples.
Indeed, so successful and attractive a society that countless Britons, and indeed many jocks, emigrated there. All Mr Osborne, Mr Cameron, and Mr Farage, want to do is establish a similar apartheid in this family of nations that comprise the UK, that will ensure the peace and prosperity of all.
Now, the jocks need not worry. Although they will no longer be allowed to participate in framing the bulk of British legislation (or indeed, any), they will have their own native assembly, where they can hear grievances and pass local laws affecting their indigenous population.
The current arrangement at Holyrood will be ended to be replaced by a body composed of what in South Africa were called “tribal elders”. These greybeards will appoint a chief who will be answerable to their assembly. The approval of the British Secretary of State for autonomous regions will have to approve the selection.
The existence of a “Scotland”, never more than a romantic fiction I think we’re all agreed, will cease to be recognised, to be replaced by the Northern Autonomous Region for Indigenous Tribes (clans).
A system of pass books will be established so that migrant workers from the region can travel to Britain to take up employment. However, permanent residence in Britain will not be granted.
We will be the envy of the world. A family of nations, separate but equal, whose status is guaranteed by apartheid legislation. Now you can’t say fairer that that.
Those who support the rotten to the core Union …lets never forget are exactky the same as those who literaly stabbed the Scots in the back …..13th feb 1692…Mort Ghinne Comhann !!!!!(murder of Glencoe )..38MacDonalds from the clan MacDonald of Glencoe were murderedby the guests who had accepted their hospitality ,on the grounds that the MacDonalds had not been prompt in pledging allegiance to the new monarchs, William of Orange and his hairy Mary ..!!!!!!another 40 women and children died of exposure after their homes were burned. The Master of Stair(JohnDalrymple ) new fine well that John MacIan was slightly delayed in arriving to sign the pledge and he had received a back upletter from Breadlebain in support but Dalrymple chose to ignore it and ordered the punishment of innocent people at Glencoe …he wanted to make an example of them….Red coats /unionists/ have plenty of history indoing The scots and Scotland down..imagine the duplicity of them breaking bread and laughing ..god knows what else ..and knowing that they were going to slaughter the scots whilst they slept..its disgusting…and worse of all were those Robert Campbell of Glenlyon and co..also fellowmen…who did that to their own…ok we dont use the swords today …but the duplicity deceit , liars , neo liberals are ever present today .
Can I mention that it’s nearly Burns Night- not much sign of the new Scotland Bill mentioned in the BT leaflet…
Christian Wright
Brilliant post :)@ 9.48
The SNP are going to have to think some deeper strategy to get the result I think most of us want, which is a huge wodge of SNP MPs, but enough Labour MPs in the rest of the UK for Labour to form a Government with the help of the SNP.
Somehow Sturgeon and Hosie need to think of ways of helping Miliband but not of course Murphy!
Having now watched the Westminster parliamentary debate (link below), I am increasingly of the view that a labour/tory coalition government is not fantasy.
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=16970
Surprised not to have seen a few more posts about this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b050gj07/party-political-broadcasts-scottish-labour-party-21012015
Creepy Murphy, looking for votes. It ranks up there with Better Together patronising women.
So as you sow, so shall ye reap. They begged, cheated and lied for us to stay so hell mend them.
Auld Rock
Ian Brotherhood
Aye – last day of term, I love it. Monopoly is a good shout… somehow appropriate. And if the game is getting boring, a bit of quantitative easing could make things more interesting.
Having said that, judging by the attendance at the debate yesterday, everyday is the last day of term at the death star: nae bugger turns up.
Oh dearie me, is oor wee Gidiot no happy then. He got what he wanted with a no vote, so now that we have decided to take the gloves off, he’s greetin like a wean. Whit’s wrang, dae ye no like us oany mair. But you said that you loved us and wanted us to stay.
Did you no say that we are better together, and noo ye dinae like it when we have taken up your offer. Well tough. GIRFUY.
Nicola has been playing WM very well since taking over, she even reached out across the Holyrood chamber for inclusive politics and got slapped in the face, as i am sure she expected, now she has the moral high ground to defend the shit storm she and Scotland are about to deliver to uk politics.
Go get them lass, we have your back.
Popcorn at the ready yet again.
I’ve just listened to the BBC report on this by saying “Despite voting to remain part of the UK, the SNP will start voting on issues in Westminster”.
@Marie clark
I like your post very much, I would like to think we are related 🙂
We love you
No we don’t
We hate you
Repeat
Said it years ago Union has all the hallmarks of an abusive relationship. For some it has to be get very bad before they pluck up courage to leave.
Thepnr
Aw shucks, thank you.
Not one mention of the STV poll on BBC. Yet when the last poll showed a SLAB increase they had it on every programme! We are just paranoid!
Big Jock
The BBC do not report on News programmes as a matter of course opinion polls unless it is one they commission it. Well that is what they say.
O/T
Tomorrow’s The National front page;
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/558020096049045504/photo/1
Jackie baillie …….
And it continues. Scotland 2015 a green mp,Slab,Lib and Tory altogether talking about the economy and budget. Yet no one from the SNP the elected government of Scotland. Just what are the BBC playing at!
It’s only a matter of time before Gideon and his pals slander the scots and our mp’s so much that the people of England demand independence from Scotland.
I’d like to see how they spin the myth that we’re not really conning the English out of subsidies but are keeping the rUK afloat.
I don’t think that version is in the script and the irony meter would self combust, along with daft gideon’ s ridiculous I Claudius hair cut.
Where can Murphy go from here? Dig even deeper?
Murphy
“We are the Real SNP…”?
50+ SNP MPs voting on English matters.
Add to that the UK marginally voting to remain in the EU because of Scottish votes.
I so hope that it happens.
No in September might have been a good thing after all.
Let them feel the full pain before we become independent.
Big Jock says:
And it continues. Scotland 2015 a green mp,Slab,Lib and Tory altogether talking about the economy and budget. Yet no one from the SNP the elected government of Scotland. Just what are the BBC playing at!
Denying the people of Scotland, well the extremely limited number of viewers still watching Scotland 2015, access to the TRUTH! … SIMPLES! 😉
@Tam Jardine –
Ha!
Even more fun would be to link some elastic bands together (i.e. the guid beige thick yins the posties use) and fire kirby-grips at whichever fud’s at the despatch-box!
And you get hunners ay bonus points if you can fire wan right through Danny Alexander’s earlobe!
Oooooyabassye!
Lesley-Anne,
“I do believe that figures such as these are in fact not out with the bounds of possibility.”
But what if the ‘silent majority’ elect 40+ Labour MPs and we do not find any ‘evidence’ of rigging?
Thanks Thepnr@10.18.
I was fairly enjoying my evening reading all these fantastic posts.I deliberately didn’t watch the Party Political Broadcast by the said “Scottish Labour Party”. I watched it for you! Now I’ve got the creeps. How will I sleep now after watching that? Creepy Murphy!
Lollysmum,
“O/T
Prince Andrew has been asked by lawyer to respond under oath re sex with 17 yr old”
Didn’t Bill Clinton lie ‘under oath’.
An oath would not prevent members of the British Establishment from lying. They are “cogenital liars”.
Scotland2015 comments – no quite right. Swinney got good time in one-on-one interview with whatshisname before Wee Willie, Basher Baillie, yon Tory and Patrick Harvey came on together to largely agree with what he’d done/said plus the odd moan.
If you switched over later you might have missed the Swinney bit and just seen Patrick plus the suspects and thought it was one of their usual stitch-ups. Feels sooooo weird defending the BBC. But in this rare case …
JS interview may have been recorded earlier. For those that didn’t see that bit, he did his usual calm class demolition of the predictable trick questions.
Low turnout favours the SNP. Let’s hope its pishing!
Robert Peffers,
“If you are a Scot you have more right to call yourself British than the immigrant English have.”
The greatest fan of the ‘Robert Peffers principle is Gordon ‘North Britain’ Brown.
Robert, I am still waiting for your answer to my question.
Just to clear things up.
You insist that we will still be ‘British’ after independence.
Are you then perfectly happy for Scotland to be called ‘North Britain’ by one Gordon Brown?
Not whether he is technically right – he is, but are you happy for Scotland to be called ‘North Britain’ now?
Just a simple answer please. I am not asking you for a complete history.
Kesia Dugdale learnt during the Referendem campain. The majority of Scots voted to get rid of Cameron F&S so she learnt nothing as per. Kesia or ( fifi la bon bon )in the of chance your looking in . Stop spouting S%$£* we know the truth.
Ian Botherhood
Aim for Danny’s earlobe? His principles would be an easier target. You could drive a fucking bus through them.
Where was the ‘anti trident’ Danny yesterday for the trident vote? What a prick.
Rock says:
Lesley-Anne,
“I do believe that figures such as these are in fact not out with the bounds of possibility.”
But what if the ‘silent majority’ elect 40+ Labour MPs and we do not find any ‘evidence’ of rigging?
You have a point there Rock but I did preface that statement with this:
However, provided we keep our eyes on the prize and our minds focused on the result I believe that with the humongous effort we are all about to embark upon I do believe that figures such as these are in fact not out with the bounds of possibility.
The main point has to be that we MUST remain focused on the prize. Remain determined to make a change.
We CAN do this.
We WILL do this.
WE MUST do this.
Lesley-Anne,
“I do believe that figures such as these are in fact not out with the bounds of possibility.”
Of course they are not and we must never talk ourselves down. There are plenty who will do that for us.
A sense a distinct growing impression that there is no great appetite in Scotland for a Westminster Labour Government either,
Stu
How about a poll asking the Scots whether they think a Westminster Labour Government would be significantly better for Scotland than a Westminster Tory one.
The result could be very surprising. The old game has changed. It is not Left v Right anymore. It is Scotland against Westminster
When are the Indy supporting MSPs going to wise up Jaackie Bailie waxing about the OIL revenue lost to Scotland,Patrick Harvey not ah peep,wake up you lot.
We have a hard enough job getting air time every LIE must be challenged F^”K the rules,they make the rules & change them as they go,wake up Indy MSPs.
Christian Wright: Does this mean we can have a casino?
Oath = Oaf?
All this lying under…
How long before some SLAB Westminster MP’s man up and leave the party? Some came close to it in the referendum. They will have less to lose this time if they are sure of getting knocked out of Parliament! I give Murphy 2 months and he will be in full panicked Irn Bru crate mode shouting at SNP voters.
The platitudes, the promises and the lies:-
“Near federalism”
“Modern form of home rule”
“Devo max”
“Family of nations”
“Equal partners in the union”
Well, the turkeys are well and truly coming home to roost. There is, of course, a simple solution to SNP MPs voting on English matters such as health. IMPLEMENT genuine devo-max/full fiscal autonomy. Scotland retains all revenues raised in Scotland (including agreed share of North Sea oil revenues), and is responsible for everything save for defence & foreign affairs. We are no longer reliant on Barnett ‘pocket money’ : it goes. We pay a contribution to WM for any reserved matters. The effect on Scottish expenditure from Barnett consequentials no longer exists. Will it happen? Not a chance. Remember the cry from the US revolutionaries – “no taxation without representation.”
@Kenny
Your comment at 6.49pm gets a belated but heartfelt endorsement from me:
NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.
Great rallying call that cuts through the EVEL bullshit.
Laugh, i can’t stop myself BBC 2015 Andrew(i’m grown up really i am) Kerr tried everything to make John Swinney look bad and it was hopeless, he even had all the Baddies lined up to rubbish him and still it failed
Scotland tonight; Bernard Ponsonby practically called for a coffin for Murph and his Labour Party
Best fun though Dippity Dug,”we’ll hang on to every seat and pick up a few more, we are going to target East Dumbartonshire”
Rhona; “So any predictions on how many seats then” Dippity “We’re not making any predictions” Rhona” “But you just did”
She even said LIEBOUR are changing, we’re a patriotic party now
Were they not before?
I hope i’ve typed this OK i’m dying here i just cannot stop laughing
Ronnie you won’t get Patrick talking about oil. He would rather stop producing it. Much as I like him he won’t provide any back up for business or economic arguments. He’s too focussed on being the nice guy sometimes.
Gideon’s whinge looks more and more likely to become reality. The SNP is at 52.5% in the latest IPSOS-MORI opinion poll for STV, at 46% in the latest Daily Record poll.
But why should he whinge? After all, it’s British MPs voting for British laws, Better Together, partnership of equals, blah, blah, blah…
Was quite a smart move by Nicola & The Scottish National Party.
Nicely timed.
In fact if able to keep up this practice of wrongfooting both the press & WM things bode well.
Also enjoyable simply for the wry laugh at Osborne squirming.
@Marcia (22.45) –
That must be one of the National’s strongest front pages yet.
I’ve been meaning to ask, for a while, if this site could be included somewhere on the WOS link-lists:
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
I can’t see where it would fit in any of the columns (Scottish Politics, UK Politics etc) and yet it seems to span them all, in one way or another.
We have an historic GE looming, while embers are still hot from the referendum…and that creature Blair may, even now, be exerting influence over our lives?
It is intolerable.
Inclusion of the ‘Iraq Body Count’ link – as a permanent reminder of what that man made us all accomplices to – might help us all retain some broader focus as to what’s at stake.
Any thoughts?
Dave McEwan Hill says:
Of course they are not and we must never talk ourselves down. There are plenty who will do that for us.
A sense a distinct growing impression that there is no great appetite in Scotland for a Westminster Labour Government either
I totally agree Dave. Mind you I don’t think you will find anyone from the YES side of the fence doing that, thankfully.
I believe you could be right about Westminster as well Dave. I think that over the say last 18 months especially it has become evident, at least to me, that there LESS of a gap between RED Tories and BLUE Tories than that needed to slip in a cigarette paper!
It is looking increasingly likely that, despite attempts by the UKIP channel to spin it differently, no party is going to have an overall majority. This is why we must produce the largest ever number of SNP M.P.’s to Westminster. Now, like never before, is the time for Scotland’s voice to be heard over the raucous that passes as intelligent debate in Westminster.
Surely if, as seems progressively more likely, the coalition in place after May is one between Red and Blue Tories – a ‘National Government’, the SNP – 50 MPs or 4 – will be left with very little part to play?
That’s the big fear for me. Most of England will vote for one or the other of these two major parties and if they get together – and they might as well, damn all to choose between them policy wise – where does that leave us?
Unless vast swathes of England, persuaded by Stu’s poll demonstrating that none of the mainstream parties can offer them the policies they actually care about, decide to vote Green in sufficient numbers to overcome FPTP – which seems unlikely, a National Government is what we are looking at in a few months.
And UK democracy becomes a single party system…
If anyone has a better understanding – and I’m sure someone would have, I’m no expert – I’d love some hope. 🙂
STV October http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/297729-stv-poll-labour-would-annihilated-if-general-election-held-tomorrow/
and STV today http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/307347-stv-poll-snp-at-52-as-murphy-fails-to-make-general-election-impact/
did something change?
O/T but just a small comment on our perceived status.
Was filling in a survey for Debenhams which I wouldn’t normally bother with but wanted to comment on an item which was 4 days late.
When trying to input my area of collection, the drop down box choices were every area of England by name eg SW, Nth & Sth Ireland and no Scotland.
Eventually realised that Scotland was contained within the ‘North region’!!
@ Thepnr 10.18. hiv you er intae the cheap seats , ma post at 6.49 LoL.
Guys we have nothing to fear. As Nicola said:”Since when did a political conference sell out a concert arena”. The Hydro and other meetings show the strength of feeling for change. The poll breakdown shows the young are going to vote SNP by 77%! They have no loyalty to Labour.Many only know them, as the party that sold out Scotland,and had a middle class failed banker in charge of them!
@ Thepnr dont know whit happend tae that last post.
Huv you moved intae the cheap seats on WOS lol.
thats better.
Lesley-Anne,
“However, provided we keep our eyes on the prize and our minds focused on the result”
Did we not keep our eyes on the prize and our minds focused during the referendum campaign?
We did, but we were still defeated.
There is every possibility of that happening again in May.
We call members of the British establishment clowns and chimps at our own expense. They won, we lost. How could they have if they were clowns and chimps?
Yes that is what happened Rock but, in my view, that is not a reason to abandon that approach.
I believe that then it was the right approach and I still believe that it is the right approach for May. At the end of the day we know what happened in September but in May they can NOT spout the same tripe. They can not do so for one very simple reason.
In September they were all hand in glove controlled by the BLUE Tories. In May they are all independent Tory parties, YELLOW,RED,BLUE and PURPLE and instead of fighting hand in hand they will be fighting AGAINST each other as well as fighting the SNP. THAT is the major difference between September and May and is why I believe we will cause an amazing tidal wave of change in Westminster.
I decided against my better judgement to watch the Labour Party in Scotland’s political broadcast. Even before Jim Murphy appeared on screen to waffle on about change, there are three ludicrously vague statements:
-We will build 100,000 new homes
-Deliver a pay rise for half a million Scots
-We will CAP energy prices
These have to be challenged, so here goes:
We will build 100,00 new homes
Why 100,000- what research was carried out to arrive at this number?
Who is going to build them, the Private or Public sector? If the latter, how is it going to be funded?
Where will these homes be built?
Deliver a pay rise for half a million Scots
How much of a pay rise exactly?
When will it be introduced? Is it a one time deal, phased in, incremental, or what?
Which sections of the working population will qualify?
Public or Private Sector workers?
If Public Sector, how is it going to be funded?
If Private Sector, how is it going to be enforced?
We will CAP energy prices
I will assume that the word “Energy” relates to Domestic Electricity and Gas.
The UK Labour Party has said it would FREEZE energy prices, so how will a different policy be applied in Scotland, given the complexities that already exist with prices and tariffs in the current set up?
What consultation has been conducted with the Energy Suppliers to make sure this policy is affordable to implement in Scotland. For example, who picks up any IT system changes that may be required to the Suppliers software?
What are the precise details of the CAP:
What mechanism would be used to manage the CAP?
When will it be introduced, and how long will it last for?
What measures will be put in place to minimise suppliers increasing the price to recoup losses during the CAP?
This is a simple basic analysis and I’m sure there are many more points that could be added.
My point is simple, what scrutiny will the MSM apply to this drivel?
If anyone was wondering what is going on over at Labour (North Britain branch) these days then worry not cause YES Giffnock have, against all odds, managed to secrete this wee video out from their latest *ahem* leader’s briefing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XpnjgVD1w8&feature=youtu.be
I’m looking forward to the rest of the STV poll later today, the bit about Smith and its offalings.
“People in Scotland are less likely to rate a BBC source as their most important news source than the UK as a whole (46% vs. 52% UK average). Over half of adults in Scotland say they use BBC One for news (55%), followed by STV (37%) and then the BBC website or app (24%). There has been no change in the use of BBC One or STV for news, bus use of the BBC website or app has increased since 2013 (14%).
TV is considered relatively more important for news among its users in Scotland than among those in England and Wales; the mean importance for television was 7.5 in Scotland, compared to 6.8 in England and 6.9 in Wales.”
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/tv-research/news/2014/News_Report_2014.pdf
What we’re still up against. It’s a pity STV news doesn’t rate higher than BBC, perhaps we could start recommending people to switch their news program of choice!
Mind you, that’s probably the national news rather than the Scottish news but if you watch one channel, you’d get the Scottish news probably from it as well.
Looking forward to REVs disembowelment of the smithcommision Thursday
who/where is announcing the exciting news
The impact of the Referendum on UK politics has been without precedent.
Past General Elections serve little purpose as a guide for Scottish voters in GE15.
The principal element is the fall from favour of the Labour Party in Scotland.
Labour used to be by far the dominant party in Scotland in the UK elections.
Opinion polls since the Referendum indicate that such dominance is gone.
Labour & Tory in the same bed for Indy has seemingly finished Labour in Scotland.
However, Labour remains a unionist party, and along with the Tories,
still have a serious problem in the flourishing Independence Movement in Scotland.
The Tories have nothing to gain in Scotland in GE15.
But it is very much in their interests to work with Labour
to hurt the cause of Independence and the SNP.
Jim Murphy’s Campaign is just the Better Together Campaign.
It is made up of the same people – just with Jim Murphy at the head –
and they have the same purpose, to defeat the SNP led Independence movement.
Funded by wealthy Tories, the GE15 unionist campaign in Scotland will include asking Tory voters to vote Labour as well as trying to persuade Yes voting former labour voters to return to the fold of the new magically transformed pro Scottish Labour fantasy Party.
No other strategy makes any sense for the Unionist parties.
Keep in mind that a Tory/Labour coalition is the only show in London Town that can save the Westminster Establishment.
But this pairing carries huge political risks for both parties. High stakes poker to be had in London alright.
The good news is that the Unionists have got it all to do while the Independence parties have great support throughout Scotland , if the polls are even close to being accurate.
But we have yet to see the impact of the Murphy Campaign with its almost exclusive access to the media, it’s use of dirty tricks, postal ballot manipulation and then there is still the big bribe, as in the Referendum. Don’t be surprised if Gordon Brown makes another final appearance to win over his favourite audience – the elderly.
Politics in the UK has changed –
and our thinking will have to change with it if we’re to keep up.
I don’t often watch TV these days but I watched Scotland Tonight on tuesday, the day Labour MP’s couldn’t be arsed nailing their colours to any mast over Trident. That was the real story but that’s not what they covered. They chose to go with a story concerning the Scottish film industry and something that would be happening in Parliament the next day (wednesday). A reasonable person might expect them to follow up that story on wednesday but no. What we were treated to was a piece with no nationalists on the couch and which focused on how Labour were going to make up the shortfall evidenced in the latest poll. To cap it off we got Dugdale in full flow telling us all how the only way to stop the tories is to vote Labour.
Now I know that’s what politicians do, I accept that. What grinds my gears is the total lack of rigour by the so-called professional journalists. They are either thick, in which case they should be sacked. Or they are complicit in the destruction of a nation. The penalty for the latter should be somewhat more severe.
It’s a very astute move by Nicola, to use the Barnet Consequentials as the reason why the SNP will start to vote on English matters.
This is the political equivalent of throwing a grenade through the enemies window and waiting for the explosion.
It will infuriate the Right Wing Press, which will require a response (That we got from Gideon) which in turn will infuriate Scots as well as Labour MP’s, who will find themselves doing one of two things:
1. fight back, and tell Gideon to stop treating Scots as second class citizens. (doing the SNP’s work for them)
2. Do nothing, in which case Scottish Labour MP’s prove they are indeed the Feeble Fifty who can’t even stand up for Scotland when the Tory’s are telling them they are second class, (doing the SNP’s work for them)
Whatever way you look at it, Nicola is playing a blinder, and for reasons that will resonate with Scots, (to Safeguard Scotlands NHS funding)
And we haven’t even really got going yet! 🙂
Please stay, I love you. I fucking hate you. Are there any psychiatrists on here? Is this not multiple personality disorder? Can we make it illegal to not be wearing a kilt in England?
@ Thepnr,
Watched that party political broadcast.
I hope everyone noticed the little backtrack by Dim Jim, as the ‘1000 more nurses, than the SNP pledge, paid for by wealthy Londoners’ has been downgraded to just:
‘The mansion tax raised across the whole of the UK will pay for ‘more nurses’
Hmmm!
They’re playing hardball. Powerful Tory Defence Minister Anna Soubry appears to threaten the person of First Minister Sturgeon. This is chilling stuff.
Anna Soubry on FM’s announcement on BBC Radio 4’s The World at One
: “She puts our Union at risk again. I think she plays with dangerous stuff”
“She is playing into the hands of those people who get much more irate than I do about ‘English votes for English laws’. ”
I tweeted Ms Sourby to register my concern and ask for clarification. You can too : @Anna_SoubryMP
@Jenni says:
22 January, 2015 at 12:26 am
Surely if, as seems progressively more likely, the coalition in place after May is one between Red and Blue Tories – a ‘National Government’, the SNP – 50 MPs or 4 – will be left with very little part to play?
Its unlikely, but in the situation you describe the SNP would become the
Official Opposition !!!
Imagine PMQ every week with 50 SNP + PC + Greens facing down that LabCon Gov.
The following GE would be a full on melt-down 🙂
Camy: “Does this mean we can have a casino?”
ROTFLMAO
Well, Mr Osborne?
Are we ‘better together’ or aren’t we?
Do you want our participation or not?
Bwahahahahahahaha! 😀
GIRUY.
People wondered what the effects of sending down SNP MPs would be in May. They wondered why we should? There’s your answer.
Without even being there yet, our FM has them in a panic. Now imagine the effect of twenty to thirty pro Scotland MPs, with a front bench of Salmond, Hosie and Robertson.
You want devo Max? Full Fiscal Autonomy?
You know where to put that cross in May. I’ll give you a hint.
Its not next to a Labour representative.
ITS UNIVERSAL JUSTICE ….NICOLA AND CO..STICKING IT TO THEM …JUST WAIT TIL ALEX REAPPEARS ..SCOTLAND IS SO GIFTED TO HAVE ThE LIKES OF THESE FINE PEOPLE LOOKING OUT FOR US ITS A GREAT FEELING OF SATISFACTION TO WATCH THEM IN ACTION …TEAM SCOTLAND ….THEY ARE PANICKING AT WESTMONSTER ..WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THEM IF THAT BAD SNP GET TOO MUCH POWER …I SUGGEST THAT SINCE THEY THINK SO MUCH OF JAKEY ROWLING ..MAYBE THEY SHOULD AWE GO TAE PLATFORM 9/34 kings cross ..and disappear thro that wa into fantasy land taking their rainbow mob wi them …most of them look like hogs and ive seen a few warts an all …YES ..is oot the bottle …and hell mend them.
Nicola is all over the English papers.
She’s the talk o’ the steamie !
You’d think she had declared war, to judge by the reaction to her declaration that SNP MP’s would vote on the NHS in England because of the implications for Scotland’s block grant under the Barnet Formula.
The English are in such a tiz ! Love it.
Just for clarity.
The Bullingdon Club
Osborne poses with Oxford’s infamous Bullingdon Club. But who were
they?
Osbourne is frit. Losing power to the SNP. No more Pozzi schemes to misappropriate £Millions of public money for Osbourne’s associate, costing £Billions. The unnecessary Royal Mail sell off and the ‘no business case’ HS2. (Not enough customers). Making £Millions for Osbourne’s brother-in-law, best man and father-in-law. The reason Cons are in politics.
Unelected Civil Servants were campaigning against Scottish Independence. Labour activists have ruined their Party in Scotland. Reap what you sow.
Nicola, Alex and Co will save the NHS in England. Cut tuition fees, personal care, put a tax on ‘loss leading’ alcohol, stop sanctioning people and food banks. Get rid of Trident/HS2. There is no deficit. Improving affordable childcare could help eradicate poverty.
Osbourne is frit of a better run country. The majority of the rest of the UK want SNP policies.
O/T
Kirkcaldy East local council by-election today – good luck to Marie
Penman:-)
Harry McAye says
“Anyone else notice the side by side pics of Sturgeon and Murphy on STV News. Subliminal again. A very stern looking Nicola and a beaming Murphy. A bit incongruous when the feature was approval ratings and Murphy’s was in minus territory with Nicola’s disappearing over the horizon.”
BING
I thought I was the only one that noticed it, I had to persuade my wife (who could see nothing wrong) that picture was subliminal messaging,
We’ve come a long way in the past few years and its all thanks to Rev Stu.
____________________________________________________
R-Typegrunt says
“Whilst I previously agreed with SNP policy to not vote on purely English matters I’ve now changed my mind, just to annoy them. Since so few Scots appear to have the balls to leave the Union and stand on their own perhaps it’s time we incited the English to push us over the cliff?”
I would go further I would vote against anything they propose as a matter of “anything they vote for we vote against it” ala Willie Bain.
Gie them a taste o their own medicine.
___________________________________________________
Indigo says
“Nick Robinson didnt seem to understand the sincerity of that comment, fascinating times”
Its like trying to explain emotion to Mr Spock
it does not compute,
sincerity to the Westminster lot is an alien concept which they fear and mistrust.
___________________________________________________
Ian Brotherhood says
” like the last day of school – bring in Mouse-Trap, Kerplunk, all that sort of stuff.”
JENGA
That’ll bring the house down. 😉
_______________________________________________
Cristian Wright @ 9.48
You know when a post has hit the mark when you sit in sombre silence pondering what was written, respect CW
________________________________________________________
Marie Clarke says
” Whit’s wrang, dae ye no like us oany mair. But you said that you loved us and wanted us to stay.”
http://tinyurl.com/ldflut5
_______________________________________________
Travellinbhoy says
“daft gideon’ s ridiculous I Claudius hair cut.”
I thought it was a pudding bowl cut because his mammy thought a bit too ostentatious to bring Vidal Sassoon in every week?
___________________________________________________
Ian Brotherhood says
“Even more fun would be to link some elastic bands together (i.e. the guid beige thick yins the posties use) and fire kirby-grips at whichever fud’s at the despatch-box!”
HAhahaha
That reminded me of a time in the late sixties when (GOD knows why) my mate and I were taken to Dundee to see the Alexander brothers in the Caird Hall, and we had those guns you filled with wee chalk pellets and in spite of protesting loudly all the way there,
when we got there tho two of us insisted on getting as close to thew front as possible, (you just know where this is going don’t you) 🙂
Al the way through the performance we sat and unloaded about 30 thousand pellets at the bare legs of the Alexander brothers and pissed ourselves laughing as we watched a precursor to the river dance, While they tried to make it look like they were jigging along to their songs but a frenetic jig doesn’t really sit well with “For these are my mountains”
If we had tried that today we would have been surround by armed cops quicker than you could say gun.
_____________________________________________________
Carny says
“Christian Wright: Does this mean we can have a casino?”
NO next you’ll be wanting fire water and you know what happens when you lot get the wicked drink!
http://tinyurl.com/kts5th6
___________________________________________________
Yesindyref2 says
“I’m looking forward to the rest of the STV poll later today, the bit about Smith and its offalings.”
Will they use a piper to pipe it in and recite an ode to it do you think?
WEE COORIN TIMOROUS BEASTIE would be my bet!
a
If Labour had capped energy prices, everyone would be paying more than the price fall. They would have to uncap them. They tried this nonsense before, wage controls/inflation. It didn’t work then and wouldn’t work now. Deflation. Scotland could go for full employment. Cutting Trident/HS2 could cut the deficit but provide more investment in other jobs. Renewables, admin and better rail links in Scotland. The line from the central belt to the North of Scotland isn’t even electrified. Taking longer.
@ Jenni 12.26
Its kinda one of the things we’re hoping for. Basically, the whole facade that is UK politics would come apart at the seams and decades of lies and false flag ideology would be vapourised the instant red and blue tories shook hands on a deal.
Labour in Scotland are hanging on by their fingernails and the establishment with a monumental effort ‘only just’ hung on to a union. Their favourite ploy for decades in Scotland has been divide and rule. What happens when there is no difference in what you vote for? When their appears no viable option at the UK table?
God, I hope they’re that stupid. It’ll make our journey that much shorter. 🙂
The Con man cometh
manandboy says:
“The Tories have nothing to gain in Scotland in GE15.
But it is very much in their interests to work with Labour
to hurt the cause of Independence and the SNP.”
That rather depends on what the Tories’ priority is. Which is most important? – Staying in power, or thwarting the cause of Independence. If the second is the priority then that means handing the GE to Labour by assisting them to retain 20-30 seats in Scotland. If the first, then Labour losing seats helps Con win the GE.
My own feeling is the Tories will not become deeply involved in the forthcoming SNP-Lab wrangle.
Local tactical voting by SNP hating voters, that is probably on the cards.
BBC R4 news massive blast for “MORE POWERS” scam coming to Scotland, with no info whatsoever what “MORE POWERS” our imperial masters are giving us. Fair enough BBC R4 is basically Daily Heil Radio but they could at least do a little detail like what the licence fee pays for.
Also followed up with grotesque BBC R4 lick spittle groveling to Davros super rich get together, its an ugly business far right tory boy propaganda.
Scottish Daily Mail
It’s like better together campaign hasn’t stopped
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30603495
Of course now the civil service genie is out the bottle we can expect Zero impartiality over this threat to the fabric of the uk!
Lord Owen, a Labour former foreign secretary, said: ‘When the inquiry was set up, the then prime minister made it quite clear that all British documents should be available. It’s not in my view the job of the cabinet secretary to defy the decision of the prime minister who set it up. I have never known a cabinet secretary to have such a veto. ‘We have in the past had cabinet secretaries who have not had anywhere near as much political engagement as Jeremy Heywood has had. ‘It seems to me that the cabinet secretary hasn’t had that independence of mind that is necessary. I can only say I am worried about it.’
Full report on the scandal
http://caltonjock.com/2015/01/22/chilcott-inquiry-delays-the-cover-up-the-machiavellian-influence-of-sir-jeremy-heywood/
It’s all coming out now, isn’t it? NO voters should read the comments in the Torygraph here and ask themselves if they’ve done what’s best for Scotland…
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/nicola-sturgeon-snp-mps-will-vote-on-english-only-matters/ar-AA8r400?ocid=U218DHP
Idiots.
watching the smugurph on slab’s telly propaganda last night, i was struck by him having all the charisma of adolf eichmann. I think that on the basis of his demeanour alone he’s a vote loser without having to open his mouth. Interesting to note as well that the telly graphics were done by the same company who did the parliamentary labour party’s letterhead depicting a skyline silhouette of london!!!!!!! (i can assure you that this is considered at the highest level) .’Ein volk, Ein engerland, ein ("Quizmaster" - Ed).’
So Jim Murphy is standing again for East Ren, here’s a fundraiser for the SNP candidate.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-kirsten-kick-jim-murphy-out/x/2349839
I’m half expecting an independence campaign down south. Looking forward to the better together campaign stating that to leave scotland would bring financial Armageddon. “We need to PULL and SHED their resources” would be the slogan.
Has any one else noticed that SLAB politicians never mention Ed M!lliband by name. It’s always, Do you want David Cameron or a Labour Government?
When we were told that we are better together,I think Osbourne meant that we are only better together if we vote Tory or labour. Could this be an Os-Bourne Conspiracy?
What a day! Tory posh boy Davey ‘bullingdon’ Cameron (the English prime minister) on an awayday return up to Scotland, with Danny Alexander his bag carrier, to tell us what pretendy ‘powers’ he and his ilk in England will ‘let’ us have.
Meanwhile his day has been ruined by a statement by the First Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, about what the SNP will do at Westminster.
Strategically, the SNP and First Minister have played a blinder, and now we have the English political glitterati screaming about English votes for English laws. Excellent.
Westminster last year played every dirty trick in the book to force Scots to vote NO, so now they are getting just what they deserve. This is what they wanted wasn’t it? when they begged us to stay?
I think it is only a matter of time before David Cameron himself is pleading with First Minister Nicola Sturgeon for Scotland to become independent.
Nice one, SNP. 🙂
Rancid Graun Libby Carrell hatchet job on new SNP candidates headlines them all as “mavericks” and who in fact include a cancer surgeon, a bar owner and a blogger, as opposed to a fantastically bizarre seat warmer buffoon Slab MP for example that thinks there’s Russian submarines scoping us in the Clyde. So keep Trident in Scotland.
https://archive.today/VNXA9
Our red and blue Troy imperial masters are displeased.
@ Christian Wright 9:48 pm
Wxcellent.
Does that make Scotland a Bantustan?
As regards Jim Murphy standing as an MP again, it is hardly a surprise. He is up here in Scotland until the UKGE is over, and that is all, he never had any intention of staying or standing for the Scottish Parliament. The Labour vote is in meltdown in Scotland, and Murphy is not really here to help them win, he is actually here to keep the Scottish labour branch in line with London.
Following the UKGE result, he will announce he is no longer interested in being FM of Scotland, and well, ‘so long suckers, I’m off back to London, for unfettered expenses, my free second home in London, free flights to London for me and my family, and a shadow cabinet role, with 100k plus per year, a truly gold plated pension – oh and the promise of an ermine robe’.
Sadly, some up here in the Labour Scottish branch have fallen for it, hook, line and sinker.
heedtracker I am so glad they are displeased I look forward to being a fly on the wall when senior imperial master turns up today to have a word or two with our senior person. That Nicola thanks him nicely and tells him that the Scots will decide on Smith at the election would be a decent outcome.
Kenny, were you actually watching Nicola with Nick Robinson, not a Triumphalist bone in her body, but she was not going to be beaten by that twerp and had her say. If you think that maintaining your NHS budget is triumphalism then we are not on the same page. Also have you not taken in a word that Stuart has written about the fact that if England wants the Tories there is nothing we can do about it. All we can do is elect someone who will actually mitigate their actions.
Watch Nicola Sturgeon on Channel 4 news, interviewed by Cathy Newman:-
http://www.channel4.com/news/nicola-sturgeon-nhs-election-devolution-referendum
Typical response from Est’ placeman ‘Robinson’ to FM’s NHS response shocker ??
Herald at it again – Gardham doing his bit for Blighty !
Headline completely contradicts what he himself said on BBC 2015 on Tuesday night (Iplayer) re suggested Swinney ‘U- turn’.
See the Union Cabal of LaboTory + Treasury + BBC + Herald are now in full swing.
You’d think the SNP were ahead in the polls.
Another Vow coming ? – Oh wait the Imperial master is in town today hurrah ! Scots press salivate on bended knee!
The red Tories and blue Tories want to beat into submission both Scotland and the poor people of the UK, so even if we get a great number of SNP MPs, we will still be in a disregarded minority if they form an overt rather than just covert alliance.
@ gordoz
I suspect the Scottish news corps to have developed substantial callouses on their knees by this point surely? 😉
Telegraph View
Borders must be drawn
Nicola Sturgeon’s declaration that SNP MPs at Westminster will vote on English-only matters after the general election demonstrates the importance of sorting out this issue before May. The Scottish Nationalist leader was echoing a statement previously made by Alex Salmond, who is seeking to return to the House of Commons.
Before Christmas, he said the self-denying ordinance currently observed by the SNP’s six MPs to absent themselves from votes on legislation that does not affect Scotland was “not set in stone”.
In view of the additional devolution agreed for Scotland after last September’s referendum, it is unconscionable that Scots MPs – whether SNP, Labour or Lib Dem – should involve themselves in English health, law and order and education decisions when they have no say over such matters in their own constituencies.
David Cameron, who is travelling to Edinburgh today to commit the Government to the new dispensation for Scotland, promised to address this imbalance but nothing has happened, nor does it seem likely to. The Lib Dems in the Coalition are opposed to the concept of English votes for English laws.
With the SNP riding high in the polls and likely to win dozens of seats in May, there is a realistic prospect of a deal with Labour to put Ed Miliband into Downing Street, bolstered by Scottish seats.
But leaving aside the politics, there is a constitutional principle at stake that needs to be settled. The Tories are ostensibly considering several options, but need to get a move on and table a vote as soon as possible to establish in Commons standing orders that only English MPs should vote on English matters. This can be done quickly, and voters in England can then see where all the parties stand on this crucial matter before it is too late.
Aspadistra says:
21 January, 2015 at 8:43 pm
Well, if Westminster doesn’t wanting the SNP voting on non-Scottish matters, they know what to do about it.
Aye, rig the election would be their preferred option, I imagine.
Westminster only recognises power. We therefore need a strong SNP representation AND close co-operation between Scottish,Welsh nationalists and the Greens. Hopefully this will restore a degree of balanced representation and fairness.
An MP is an MP if we continue with Westminster. This is what the NO team campaigned on – Better Together, Best of both Worlds etc, etc
An absolute blinder by Nicola.
Make no mistake – the BBC’s best hope (and agenda) was to marginalise the SNP, make them seem irrelevant to the GE. The school buoy knee jerkers have reacted as predicted and now suddenly the SNP is right at the heart of the debate.
Nicola and co have made sure that no one will be ignoring the SNP between now and May. Utterly devastating news for the Red Tories, though. Oh, how my heart bleeds for them!
Bookie from hell
Would seem that ‘squeaky bum’ syndrome is starting to affect WM & their hangers on 🙂 😉
Family of nations with broad shoulders and such. some of the folk down south would welcome some common sense brought to the NHS point anyone to Ecks warning to all during QT in Liverpool
@ Helena Brown, they are really really desperate to attack Scottish democracy, shock! This is Libby Carrell who is one of UKOK sneakier attack propagandists
“Former ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray accused the SNP of bullying potential candidates during the vetting process. Photograph: Murdo Macleod/Murdo Macleod
He wrote on his blog: “They were less pleasant to me than was Jack Straw or anybody in the Foreign Office when they were sacking me for blowing the whistle on extraordinary rendition and torture. It was a really weird exercise in which these highly taxpayer paid professional politicians attempted to twist every word I said to find an excuse to disqualify me … My analysis is that those in the SNP who make a fat living out of it are terrified the energy of the Yes campaign may come to threaten their comfy position.”
Ouch. Scotland dodged a bullet with this dude. Its surprising how rancid UKOK media think we don’t know Murray is being used very hard now, when until now they completed ignored/attacked him. I miss Severin, nasty, thick, but at least you knew he was lying with all his heart for England’s control of Scotland.
Following their logic (for arguments sake) rUK MP’s should not interfere with Scottish only matters. For example oil taxation only affects us and should be 100% our decision. And for that matter trident renewal should first and foremost be a our decision, only being raised in Westminster if we decide we don’t want it.
One thing the Scottish Independence referendum has taught me is that there is no distinction between Labour and the Tories, and there is no distinction between the Tories and Labour.
Basically, a vote for either of these parties in May is a vote for Westminster, and a vote against Scotland.
Like many yessers, I privately have suspicions that the referendum count wasn’t, lets say, accurate. How else can you explain a projected rise in WMPs from 6 to 55?
I also think Nicola’s playing a blinder, creating a rammy in England that will eventually see them offer us independence on a plate!
I’d hate, though, to see SNP in a coalition; it killed the libdems, and wouldn’t help ihe indy cause long term. We should be outside this particular stinking tent pishing in!
Surely, as a further step towards Scotland leaving, EVEL is a threat to the fabric of the UK. Shouldn’t the civil service be campaigning against it?
‘We should be outside this particular stinking tent pishing in!’
Agreed. Wise advice for NS woosie. (hearty chuckle smiley face)
Woosie you are correct. If the majority were no then that would be reflected in voting intentions. Do the SNP look like the party that lost! This so called silent majority do not exist. The mood of Scotland in the majority is that something went wrong in the referendum .The result does not in any way reflect the mood of the country.I smell Sh!te!
Woosie the SNP have a way of preventing a coalition on the legitimate principal of opposition to Trident. This is their trump card. That’s why it will never happen.Unlike the Libs the SNP will not bend for power.
Re. my mention of “triumphalism” above – ANY and EVERY time an SNP politician talks about “holding the balance of power” or “wiping out Labour” or whatever else, it DOES sound triumphalist.
In reality, the electoral maths needs to fall JUST right for the SNP to have any power at all, and by requiring Labour to be the largest party in order to have any power at all, it’s actually a very tough hand to play. Any other outcome – especially a less than overwhelming SNP presence combined with a Tory plurality/majority across the UK – and the SNP have become the wasted vote party again.
Even without that, anything below 40 seats now is going to be painted as a failure for the SNP and a credit to Jim Murphy for coming aboard a sinking ship and at least saving the women and children. Talking about a Labour wipeout now is insanity. Talking about holding a majority of seats right now is crazy. The only thing the SNP should be saying is “we hope to increase our share of the vote and pick up some seats. How big that swing is will be up to the people of Scotland and who they think will best serve their interests.”
Never mind that Murphy is making the more bizarre and outlandish predictions (“sure the polls say we’re gonna get gubbed, but I think I can turn that around completely.”) That won’t be how it’s portrayed. We can’t lose this election (or even lose a vote) to hubris.
Haven’t read all of this yet but thought you should see it..
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/22/david-cameron-scotland-first-time-scottish-referendum
command paper on telegraph website
quick brief
a lot of clauses–lawyers talk
not EASY to understand
Woosie-I agree, but if you factor in a big percentage of that labour rating in the polls as yes voters it’s even more glaring. Definitely dodgy.
Woosie,
Have no fears, the SNP do not intend, so far as I understand it, on joining a formal coalition (this is just something the yookay media say) – except possibly with Plaid, merely supporting a government on a vote by vote arrangement. I am sure they are wise to the damage which a coalition has forced upon the Libdems.
A vote by vote arrangement is much more effective at extracting further and further powers for Scotland, until the English MP’s say, ‘please have independence, Scotland, please’.
Nicola has now propelled Scotland into the top of the UK election debate. Excellent.
Funny isn’t it, the two parties which are growing are both run by women – the England/Wales Greens, and the SNP in Scotland. Let’s now see Plaid (with a woman in charge) do the same. Methinks Westminster’s LabourTory posh boys better watch out.
Breaking news.
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/558211715792642048
Just picking this up from a twitter conversation between Nichola Sturgeon and the editor of the Daily Record, but it appears that the little powers which were to have been devolved through Smith are now being reneged upon.
Remember that 15% of welfare we are to be given control of?
There appears to be a clause which says we need Westminster’s permission before making changes to the welfare devolved.
SmithCommission published today means bedroom tax abolition can only be done with consent of UK Government
FAIL
@Tam Jardine says:21 January, 2015 at 10:23 pm:
” … judging by the attendance at the debate yesterday, everyday is the last day of term at the death star: nae bugger turns up.
It has long been the standard method adopted by the Establishment to adopt brainless, “Cybermen”, style candidates to make up the party numbers in the Houses of Parliament, (many bodies connected to one shared brain).
Thus the resulting crowded eateries, bars and sporting facilities and a sparsely populated debating chamber. The brainless, “Cyber”, faction of the party are not required until the division lobby bell when they follow the party line to shuffle through the designated lobby to vote.
I note that one such member died as a result of his own greed. At an official dinner in Poland. Jim Dobbin, the Labour MP for Greater Manchester, drank, “a shot”, of spirits with each course of the meal and died from a fatal amount of spirits. The propensity of these elected members to gain as much free, or on expenses, things knows no bounds. The system is rotten to the core.
http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Smith-clauses-give-Westminster-veto-in-key-areas-14d4.aspx
Westminster to be given veto over key devolved powers.
The clause essentially says, the Secretary of State can stop the Scottish government from making changes in devolved areas if he thinks it’s “unreasonable”.
The clause is the one at the top.
http://imgur.com/BJtKXMI
Labour, Tory . . same old game.
Tory, Labour, . . both the same
Robert Peffers says:
21 January, 2015 at 8:58 pm
@David Agnew says: 21 January, 2015 at 7:06 pm:
“Britishness – ewww – it makes my flesh creep.”
What are you then, David_ French, German, Italian or what?
…
The Britons in Albion then invited the Germanic Tribes, (Anglo Saxons), to come to Albion to protect the native south Britons and they took over and called south Britain Angle Land.
From my understanding of the German language, England comes from the adjectlive “eng” which means narrow and the noun Land which is the same in both languages. The Angles, like the Jutes came from modern day Denmark. (Juttland is still a region of Denmark)Saxony was a germanic state and there are still 3 Bundesländer with Sachsen in the name, Niedersachsen, Sachsen and Sachsen Anhalt.
Funnily enough, the renaming of Albion to ‘Eng’land is still appropriate today, considering the narrowmindedness in respect to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland we have seen from the established political parties in that part of the Kingdoms.
Anent the Secretary of State’s veto, the Waffling Walrus himself stated that home-rule has been delivered in full and that he doesn’t want to hear any more on the matter of the constitution.
@Rock says:21 January, 2015 at 11:33 pm:
“The greatest fan of the ‘Robert Peffers principle is Gordon ‘North Britain’ Brown.”
Don’t talk pish!
“Robert, I am still waiting for your answer to my question.
Why?
“You insist that we will still be ‘British’ after independence.”
That’s because we were British before we became legally equally sovereign partners in a bipartite United Kingdom. We remained British while we are partners in the United Kingdom and we will still be British as both an independent Kingdom and an independent country after we disunite the United Kingdom by leaving it.
“Are you then perfectly happy for Scotland to be called ‘North Britain’ by one Gordon Brown?”
A Stupid question that requires no answer.
“Not whether he is technically right – he is, but are you happy for Scotland to be called ‘North Britain’ now?
See above.
“Just a simple answer please. I am not asking you for a complete history.”
See above. The facts are plain YOU are confusing Britain as the United Kingdom. Facts are chiels whit winna ding – Everyone who claims any part of the archipelago that is the British Isles as their country is British and there are eight distinct countries in that archipelago. Including four that are NOT part of the United Kingdom. Hopefully soon to be at least five.
You are thus the one confusing two distinctly different entities as being the same thing and that means you have fallen for the Establishments propaganda and are now propagating it to their benefit. That is exactly what they want you to do. The only way to turn their propaganda back upon them is to not accept it.
If you are dim enough not to be able to defend your legal and moral right to be British, and to call yourself such, that remains your problem – not mine. Just tell Brown, as I have done, that he is a member of the de facto Parliament of the country of England that sits at Westminster under the guise of being the United Kingdom Parliament.
Just for the record I was railing about Scotland being referred to as North Britain long before Brown was born in 1951. Thing is it is not because Scotland isn’t North Britain but, ” because England was not also being referred to as South East Britain.
First identify what the problem is before shooting your mouth off about the problem. They want you to deny you are British and that is exactly what you are doing.
Big Jock says:21 January, 2015 at 11:48 pm:
” … I give Murphy 2 months and he will be in full panicked Irn Bru crate mode shouting at SNP voters.”
Whit!
When did Murphy stop shouting at SNP and other independence supporting voters?
Robert Peffers, that particular hobby horse is becoming more than a little tedious. It is especially so when your argument is total pish, to borrow your own charming term. But I’ll not rise to this anymore. I believe I have done so in the past. Feel free to waffle on.
Robert Peffers, your British hobby horse is becoming more than a little tedious. It is especially so when your argument is total pish, to borrow your own charming term. But I’ll not rise to this anymore. I believe I have done so in the past. Feel free to waffle on.
@Democracy Reborn says: 21 January, 2015 at 11:50 pm:
” … We are no longer reliant on Barnett ‘pocket money’ : it goes. We pay a contribution to WM for any reserved matters.”
And thereby hangs the tale.
The reserved matters, even if only defence and Foreign Policy, are thus outwith any Scottish government control. The only fair way is for those reserved matters to be an agreed, and treaty signed, co-operated matter. That includes foreign embassy and ambassadors. Remember that the present arrangement is that while English business gets free use for business presentations the Scots have to pay fees. This shows that the Establishment views the embassies as English property rather than United Kingdom property and thus the staff that we Scots help pay for must also be England’s employees. Which shows that my claims of Westminster being the de facto parliament of England in the eyes of the Unionist Establishment but really not legally.
Be careful sometimes what ye want……ye might well get it!
@Brian Fleming says: 22 January, 2015 at 2:15 pm:
“Robert Peffers, that particular hobby horse is becoming more than a little tedious.
Here’s a thing, Brian, no one forces anyone to read their comments. If you find the truth is either tedious, or even objectionable to your mind, you are perfectly free to scroll past them.
” It is especially so when your argument is total pish.”
I note you have no evidence to prove your claim. Care to offer the forum some?
“I’ll not rise to this anymore. I believe I have done so in the past. Feel free to waffle on.”
I believe you may indeed have done so. However, I was under the distinct impression no one on the forum was required to seek your express permission to express their views. I believe that prerogative to be reserved for Rev Stu?
Furthermore, neither you nor the entire Establishment will rob me of my right, as a native born Scot, to claim to be as British as any other Briton in the United Kingdom’s four countries, or in the non-UK Republic of Ireland or the non-UK three Crown Dependencies. If you cannot distinguish the difference between Britain and the United Kingdom the blame rests only with yourself.
@ sweet Robert Peffers –
Darling I’ve been chasing a name for the inhabitants of the South of Great Britain, yet the answer is obvious – the South British, as you say – understand what words mean.
The South of Britain Nationalists – SOBnats.
Bugger (the Panda) wrote: “Does that make Scotland a Bantustan?”
Indeed. Specifically, Jockveldtistan.
Robert Peffers says: Which shows that my claims of Westminster being the de facto parliament of England in the eyes of the Unionist Establishment but really not legally.
.
Always has it been thus, except . . . now the Government of the United Kingdom specifically and unequivocally holds that legally, it is the parliament of England*.
Scotland was extinguished in 1707 when it was absorbed by England. England is the continuing state, and the titles “England” and “United Kingdom” are synonyms.
I guess in the original 1930s German the Westminster government’s policy is: “UK aber ist England wie England UK ist! ”
*You can get the detailed skinny here with citation to original source materials (wrote is just for you, Robert) http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/02/25/the-fiction-of-the-continuing-state/
Ah so its fine for us to be part of the union but
Not fine when its an SNP majority with the power
to sway votes on English matters. Well they will just
need to get used to that fact very shortly.
They wanted Scotland to stay now we will affect
english matters with our voting power
Robert Peffers,
“Are you then perfectly happy for Scotland to be called ‘North Britain’ by one Gordon Brown?”
“A Stupid question that requires no answer.”
Not so stupid but it would expose your hypocrisy if you answered it.
Most independence supporters, with notable exceptions like yourself, hate the idea of Gordon Brown calling Scotland ‘North Britain’, even when we are not independent.
And you are effectively insisting that Gordon Brown will be absolutely correct and perfectly entitled to call Scotland ‘North Britain’ after independence.
Why don’t you stop flogging a dead horse?
Just watched kirsty wark,interview Stuart hosie on news night,what a disgrace she is.constantly interrupting the interviewe,claiming she “just didn’t believe” his answer to the question of a coalition with labour.journalism in this country truly shocking.