The Daily Record, 15 September 2014:
“David Cameron , Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg have signed up to a historic joint statement that was demanded by the Daily Record on behalf of the people of Scotland.
The unprecedented agreement was signed after the Record demanded that the leaders clearly explain what they are offering so the Scottish people can decide if it is a better alternative to independence.
The agreement was brokered by former prime minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour. This new pledge means that all the parties with a chance of forming the next UK government have guaranteed the ‘extensive’ new powers will be put on the statute book next year.
Brown said: ‘We have agreed a timetable for that stronger Scottish Parliament – a timetable to bring in the new powers that will go ahead if there is a No vote. A White Paper by November, put into draft legislation by January.'”
Our emphases. But you’ll never guess what, readers.
“Ed Miliband will convene a constitutional convention to discuss the future of devolution and power at Westminster.
The convention will be a form of semi-representative assembly going beyond elected MPs. It would begin before the next election with every nation and region in the country engaged in dialogue with the people about how power needs to be dispersed, not just in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, but in England too.
The Labour proposal is that these debates will bring together MPs and councillors with ordinary citizens. Each region will produce a report outlining a series of recommendations, covering for example: how sub-national devolution can be strengthened; how the regions can be given more of a voice in our political system; and how we can give further voice to regional and national culture and identity.
This would be followed in autumn 2015 with a constitutional convention to determine the UK-wide implications of devolution and to bring these recommendations together.
It will discuss the shape and extent of English devolution and what reforms are needed in Westminster, as well as the case for a regionally representative Senate or for codifying the constitution.
Any recommendations would be debated by parliament.”
And that’s pretty much the same thing, right?
Well done, No voters. Well done you.
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scottish politics, uk politics
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A set of donkey’s ears will be issued to every voter. Thanks for your patience and gullibility.
Ah, but … we never agreed what devolution we’d give you
As far as I know, Milliband’s position is that the Vow should be implemented according to Brown’s timetable, with the convention running in parallel to hammer out a proper settlement for the regions, Wales, and N. Ireland. It’s Cameron that seems to be insisting on linking it to England.
Breaking the vow could trigger a new indyref under a new SNP leader. And the YES movement is still here to mobilise again.
Let’s see.
He didn’t fool me, or my family.
We’re part of the 45%.
BTW, just met a guy who voted No because the oil is going to run out in two years.
please keep this site open in some form or other staurt! If we want to keep pushing for the best interests of Scotland we need to be engaged and informed with politics.
Thank you for everything you done for us 😀
Entirely predictable – and indeed predicted – from these vile excuses for leaders.
please keep this site open in some form or other stuart! If we want to keep pushing for the best interests of Scotland we need to be engaged and informed with politics.
Thank you for everything you done for us 😀
The country was sold for gold , now its been sold for nothing.
Milliband is not even in power.
After yesterday he will be even less likely to be in that position.
welcome to the one party state.
Sorry, did the over 55’s, who swung the vote to No, actually believe the promise of new powers? Or were they only interested in saving their pensions and consigning our kids to a lifetime of oap care servitude instead?
Ah, now that’s more like it. All this talk of giving up, there’s still a vital job for Wings to do. And the rest of us for that matter. We need you! The next referendum could be a lot sooner than people think. Heard Cameron saying it was the ‘settled will of the Scottish people’ – my arse it is!
I don’t think the majority of No voters care about more powers. They’re just scared of any change whatsoever. In fact they’re just scared.
It did not even last 24 hours. How do the 2,000,ooo pseudo-Scots feel now. Should be ashamed!!
Miliband has a mini strategic brain – already walked straight into Camerons trap by refusing to accept Tory Plan [ because he finally sees an English only Parliament would be very dificult to win ]
Idiot
Hahahahaha suckers ringing aloud from down London way, yep No voters wont here the end of it from me, I will never let them forget how they betrayed their country through blind ignorance, please keep this site going Stu its great for info that the pathetic press don’t tell us
And so begins the shafting better bend over folks
Don’t you go anywhere Stew, if you still have the strength, we are ALL going to need you.
you can lead a donkey to water but a pencil must be lead
People are so used to politicians at Westminster telling lies, that this will hardly raise a comment. There will be NO voters who will merely shrug. ‘thats politics’.
People actually voted NO, fully understanding that the promises of Brown, Milliband were unlikely to come to fruition. The ridiculous troika vow just made certain NO voters feel better about their choice.
It will take something seismic to shake people too scared or too stupid to understand what was clearly laid out in front of them already. If nothing seismic happens, Westminster will continue to gerrymander and obfuscate.
Westminster will talk about devolution to the big cities of the UK and deliver, political advantageous funding to suit their own agenda.
Real power handed over? No chance.
The 1.6 million people need to come together now, under a single, non political, non partisan, non negotiable objective and ignore all the other ‘noise’ like EU or NATO.
Lets take our 1.6 million and continue the journey under a common banner.
Sounds like something wee doogie dreamed up. It seems that Labour etc are doing EXACTLY what we all knew they would. A swift kick into the longest grass they could find,might as well leave the country.
All of the SNP should resign from the Scottish Government in disgust at the antics of this shower of spivs and conmen.
has eck resigned to go at them again running wit.h a manifesto of a referendum sooner than later
Should read…
Westminster will talk about devolution to the big cities of the UK, and only deliver political advantageous funding to suit their own agenda.
We really do need this site to stay up now.
Rev Stu take a break, regenerate the old mojo and come back kicking.
It’s hard to walk the streets in North Britain without wondering which one of my fellow citizens are the ("Tractor" - Ed)ous scum who have sold my childrens birthright on the strength of ‘the vow’.
I need to drop out for a few days. I can’t stand it anymore
At 2am last night, Kezia Dugdale was busy telling the BBC that a No vote should not be interpreted as a resounding mandate for more powers. “People will have had many different reasons for voting No.” Aye, well 45% voted for ALL the powers, Kez. Did less than one in ten on your side vote that way because you promised a No vote meant major change?
Westminster doesn’t do reform very well. We need someone to hold the. To account. Stu, please keep it up. What could possibly be better for your mental health over the next 9 months than to cover the next general election in Scotland?
Hi Rev, Sad to see Alex Salmond has resigned but this story has encapsulated everything that you said before. I’m utterly gutted that people think that THIS is some sort of victory. If anything it proves that the 45% were right and that the powers promised was just saying ANYTHING to get what they wanted. Pledge my arse!
Good on ya, Rev Stu. Now is the time to fight back. It took me about an hour to get over the devastating disappointment. And Scotland hasn’t lost, believe it or not. The Yes Voters are the brave hearts. Three centuries of them.
Sad to see Alex Salmond go. But Cameron will regret this.
The best news of the day has to be Labour loses in Clydebank, Glasgow and other traditional strongholds.
Do they really expect people to revert back to Labour in May 2015?
The Labour Party lost Scotland today. Never forget.
We have a new goal ladies and gentlemen, to wipe these Labour bastards off the face of the political map in Scotland.
Some people seem to think our campaign has come to an end.
Oh no.
This is only the beginning.
Get off your knees!
Regroup!
Get organised!
We’ve got these shysters on the run. Keep chasing!
Glasgow has shown the way.
Where Glasgow goes, Scotland will follow!
Can someone tell me again, please, how this isn’t against the purdah rules.
I could cry for the selfishness, ignorance and cowardice of those in Scotland old enough to know better than to trust Westminster … We can only hope that those under 55 who voted FOR independence will not falter when they are called again to save our society from corporate evil… for I believe that call will come much sooner than the media care to imagine.
Thank you Stuart, and to all to carried the fight against injustice. We should take heart from the fact that when this referendum was first called less than 30% supported it. Look how far we have come.
It’s comin for a’ that. 🙂
Miliband already ignoring pledge , anyone surprised ? I hope those people that voted no are feeling good today , cos I feel betrayed.
wonder if we will ever hear about those Glasgow ballot papers , and how many got through unnoticed.
How come 1.6m knew this would happen and 2m didn’t? Is it that the 2m knew but just don’t give a f###? Who cares about promises of more powers when my pension’s at risk. “Too stupid” is being polite to these spineless, selfish, grovelling gits.
“What’s that fuzzy thing coming fast towards us? Oh that’ll be the long, long grass.”
Aye–too effin stupid right enough.
Brìgh gach cluiche gu dheireadh.
I don’t think the fat lady has sung yet.
wingman 2020 says:
19 September, 2014 at 6:06 pm
The best news of the day has to be Labour loses in Clydebank, Glasgow and other traditional strongholds.
Do they really expect people to revert back to Labour in May 2015?
The Labour Party lost Scotland today. Never forget.
disagree there labour party sold Scotland I hope they got a good deal , an awful lot of people will never forget nor forgive them , looking forward to next election and them begging for votes
If even we could destroy labour, what purpose would it serve? What is the SNP now?
What is any of it under yet undetermined Westminster rule?
I can’t believe we’re having to go through this whole fucking bollocks again. ARHGHG
@James 123
I am with you on that one.
Millibands position?
Oh no you don’t.That sounds like an attempt at trying ‘the lets unite behind Labour stuff against the evil Cameron’. Labour put us in this argument over what is to be unkept timetables/schedules/promises stuff. We ain’t forgetting that already, are we? I’m not. Ever.
#PleaseKeepThisSiteOpenBecause
45% of people now know the score.
We only need another 6% to know the score next time.
Can we get 45 badges made up and distributed. We can wear these with pride and know each other. Do you agree.
Stu – firstly, a belated but sincere & heartfelt thanks for your Herculean effort the past 3 years. Without a shadow of a doubt, we would not have secured the 45% without your efforts.
On topic…. and 2 points.
1. The Kilbrandon Report 1973 already looked at federalism for the UK. Conclusion? Given the enormous size of England it would be “unworkable”.
2. There was at least one (possibly more) English region which rejected a regional assembly in a referendum during the noughties. You’ll recall it was John Prescott’s wet dream.
So, whilst it may sound all dandy in theory, & has probably conned some Scots into voting No, it’s basically conceptual bullshit.
All together now, folks….”WE TOLD YOU SO!!….”
There is a saying somewhere about not showing your panties till you see the sweeties.!! Lol
Classic Quebec Playbook . They have been waiting 20 years for promised powers. I have a sneaky suspicion that we will get watered down NOWT . And an honourable man falls on his sword to get the grief over in one day so we can take up the standard and fight on.#the45
I now consider Glasgow the capital of Scotland. Edinburgh has relinquished the position by voting no.
@Croompenstein
With you on that one.
‘NO FEAR
NO SHAME
NO BLAME’
I voted YES
Can anyone design a good T-shirt graphic for this
I still see people voting for Labour – these folk are blinded by tradition – a lot of the Yessers in Glasgow, Clydebank etc were voting yes in the hope of getting a new Scottish Labour party.
I’m sorry to say this but there are now a lot of people off my Xmas list forever they have betrayed the Yes generation.
I for one will never forgive or forget but I will continue to fight on.
plus ca change! Thinking today that we need a real alternative to the mainstream media and broadcasters, to look out for Scotland and inform us. IndyTV with it’s limited resources is a good example of what I have in mind but properly funded.
The referendum has shown us that there are talented people who need a platform to express ideas and learn for next time, it may be quicker than we think. We have to watch and inform about the moves happening in WM that will affect us, I don’t trust the BBC to do that. views?
Anyone brighter than me able to find Brown’s motion in parliament which he promised to publish today?
19th September: Mr Brown will publish a motion of the House of Commons setting out his timetable and mandating the Government to lay a Command Paper setting out the parties proposals for further devolution. This will be voted on by MPs “at the first opportunity”, according to Mr Brown.
(Used to the Scot Govt website by now, but can’t find my way around Westminster)
Glad to see the bounce back didn’t take long. Mine just happened an hour ago after a long sleep.
The Indy % rose from 28-30% to 45%. Not far enough … this time.
To state the obvious, the next referendum will be won by a large proportion of the 55% who “weren’t quite ready yet”. Just like in 1997 after the 1979. But this time it won’t be 18 years, it’ll be 5 years, or even less.
We’ll be here, the 45%.
Aye,i have calmed a little and i dont think a scorched earth on our part serves any purpose.
This website has to continue and the campaign for Scotlands independence with it.
You can take heart from several things:
We scored 45%.
The old generation of No Scotland will pass soon.
The Youth are strongly Yes.
We have learned valuable lessons this time round.
It’s inevitable.
http://www.infowars.com/russian-election-observers-westminster-rigged-scottish-independence-vote/
Here goes.
After millinands brainfart today he has lost it. He knows he needs Scotland to avoid a hung parliament so will not agree to the English vote at the same time as the Scottish vote.
This will count against him in Scotland because he’ll have been seen to have screwed us over and will lose some big seats (airdie and shorts and wishaw being at least 2 and probably shettleston again). The marginals in England won’t Stan him for us Jocks getting all “their” money. He then becomes unelectable and we get a tory government in England with enough ukip to top up overall majority on condition of guaranteed eu referendum. That will be different to ours as they will have the press on their side. English people aren’t dumb but will probably vote about 55-45 for.
Scotland meanwhile, with sturgeon heading the snp and being first minister will vote over 60% to stay. Scottish lib Dems and labour will then be offered the chance to cross the divide to help Scotland stay in Europe. They will at that point break party lines and do it and demand another referendum for 2018 taking uks place in eu (with less of a rebate). This will form part of UK’s exit from Europe and at this point, with everyone except the tories saying yes we will will.
Independent by 2020 is my prediction.
Or am I looking too far ahead.
blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/political-and-constitutional-turbulence-in-the-uk-looks-set-to-continue-to-2020/
Could happen again in less than ten years. Maybe even four.
We’ll have our time. WM have a can of worms and hard to live up to promises to deal with. Also large scale constitutional changes and social/economic ones.
In round 2 they’ll be facing many now-experienced campaigners and not novices.
Quebec managed to get a second referendum in less than a generation after a worse defeat. It can be done.
The unprecedented agreement was signed after the Record demanded that the leaders clearly explain what they are offering so the Scottish people can decide if it is a better alternative to independence.
Nice to see the Daily Record trying to cover its own earse here. I’m not denying that the DR may have *ahem* asked the THREE STOOGES for an explanation but are the editors at the DR really as STUPID and INCOMPETENT as to actually BELIEVE the SHITE that they put on the front page of their toilet roll?
Rev and everyone else.
Why don’t we form a grouping or movement; bona fide, registered as a political party.
We can self fund it.
We can decide on it’s agenda, e.g. a door stepping movement or something that has a big footprint on social media.
It will be cross party, it will be dedicated to keeping the focus on Labour, LidDem and Tory to fulfil their pledge.
We can contact disaffected Unions, Radical Independence or similar groups who were involved in the campaign.
It should be an umbrella group.
Scotland is being betrayed as we look on.
Wings has served a very useful purpose, now it’s time to transform it into something else.
Regroup, Learn, refresh and move on.
I’m up for it.
Any thoughts?
It’s things like this Rev that show why Scotland needs this site, probably now more than ever before.
What Scotland also needs is for each of those brave 1.6 million yessers to not give up. To continue highlighting the broken promises of jam-tomorrow and the fag paper thin differences between the three Tory parties.
You need some of those 1.6 million to also step up, to create their own blogs, FB pages, twitters etc.
St David had a saying, do the little things. Imagine 1.6 million people doing the little things.
This is exactly why we need wings to carry on. But you should still take some time off to recharge.
I think we should be voting in Labour next year. Simply so that we can prove that they are as bad as the Tories.
While they are in opposition they can always claim that they are standing up for social justice. If they implement large cuts then they could become as hated as the Tory party, which will make it easier to replace them.
So this is why you must keep going with Wings over Scotland until the job is done. Lies and half truths might have been enough to win elections in the past, but there was a good reason why the ‘Pledge’ was made late in the day and lacking in detail – because the 3 UK parties knew it was something they couldn’t really deliver. Someone (or some website) needs to continue to call them to account.
Dear Scottish No Voters,
I am writing this today to be broadcast on Friday
because by then I’ll be sozzled on champagne, thanks to you.
By the way, I had the bubbly sent over from Westminster,
but that’s our little secret.
I want to thank all of you who voted No
even though you knew deep down
you should have voted Yes – as all the sensible people did.
I couldn’t have done it of course,
without a totally compliant BBC, STV and the Press and Radio
who did such a great job in topping up the daily diet of
lies and scaremongering which proved so effective
in persuading so many of you, especially the elderly, to vote No.
I want to thank all my union supporting friends
in Scotland for paying the ultimate price
in sacrificing your country
and at such great future cost to yourselves
and to your families
who will now endure decades of poverty and misery.
This is the way it has to be in order to save England.
Well, actually, just the little bit of England where I live.
You see, there’s something I haven’t told you Scots
and it’s terribly important for us down in London.
Scotland is very,very,very wealthy, almost beyond belief,
because of oil and gas.
Scotland is surrounded by billions of tons of oil.
I have kept quiet about it for many years because
we didn’t want to upset you.
But the thing is, you see, because the UK has so much debt
and because it really does cost an awful lot of money
to keep the super wealthy elite in a proper manner,
well, Westminster has decided that we simply must
have all your money – yes, all of it, for ever.
Now I can only imagine that your lives will be very hard
after the Referendum, and for generations to come,
but it won’t be so bad, disease and hunger will soon lead
to a premature death for many Scots, and let’s face it,
dying isn’t so bad, now is it?
And one day, perhaps by accident, you might just catch a glimpse
of a blinding white light coming from the west,
and after that you’ll have no more worries. Trust me.
Excuse me a moment, I just want to top up my champagne glass.
Now, where was I? Oh, Yes. I mean of course, Oh No!
It’s those No votes that are going to make all that I have said above come true after all.
I’m sure you all understand why I had to do this and I do thank
you all for your understanding and patience.
I doubt very much if I’ll be seeing you all again, so,
Cheerio then,
Your Prime Minister,
David Cameron.
Ps. One last word of thanks to the Labour Party in Scotland
who actually did all the dirty work for me. I’ll send along a few beers later in appreciation. Well done!
_________________________________________________
National Collective were saying on Twitter, that if the over 65 age group voting figures are removed the yes vote would have been 54%. Certainly not every over 65 voted this way. My unionist mum aged 79 didn’t, she voted yes for her grandchildren. But I spent a long time with her, reassuring her as did my children.
The blame for this must be placed squarely on the shoulders of our biased media, especially the BBC who terrified our old people with scare stories.
It always was a dog’s breakfast they intended to ram down the throats of people in Scotland. Just reading it gave me the dry boak.
Good news is we don’t have to accept it. And that it will be one of many rallying points in the coming weeks, months and years – Boycotting the BBC, Bigger Blockades against Trident, Battering Scottish Labour at the 2015 UK Election, Annihilating Labour at the 2016 Scottish Election. And when, in 2017, they vote to leace the EU and we vote to stay, our magnificent grassroots movement fronted by a coalition for independence in our Parliament will give them a constitutional crisis they’ll never forget.
Stay with us, Stu. Try, try again.
Who’d a thunk it Prof Curtis arguing with Ruthie and Ming and Miliband (if he’d been there) about what Cameron has said and will do.
Even our unionist Scottish leaders can’t see they have been given the tory bum’s rush. Westminster will not deliver anything prior to the 2015 GE and maybe nothing afterwards either.
Davie and George must be doing ‘high fives’ yet 24hrs ago they were within a hairsbreadth of being dumped.
What really devastated me was that this time it was her people that stabbed Scotland in the back & handed her lock, stock & barrel to a corrupt WM.
In case the point somehow hasn’t already been made, the BBC can go fuck themselves.
If you want a mission for the moment Rev Stu then exposing every lie from them and the rest of the spineless media will keep you and the site very busy indeed.
There is REAL anger in scotland over what they have done.
Believe it.
We MUST send Labour the way of the Tories in Scotland in the 2015 GE. Don’t vote Labour to keep the Tories out. Vote SNP.
Very sorry to hear the First Minister is to step down.
No voters should realise it could have been Dave quitting. Think on that, Labour voters.
Miliband is the new Clegg. The timetable was not Cameron’s it was Brown’s. It was a Labour proposal.
Bare faced liars the lot of them.
Please do not disparage all older voters. Stereotyping any group of people is a dangerous route to go down. I am 66 years old and only one of countless older people who worked tirelessly for a YES vote.
I think we need to remember that the “real” facts for the yes campaign have largely come via social media which would explain why the younger vote was on-side. Older voters have been subjected to biased media reporting and a scare campaign. Surely it was OUR job to pass on what we had learned via social media to the older voters and to plead with them to think of the future for their children and grandchildren.
It is all well and good saying that they have let us down but we all need to stand up and take responsibility because we have let them down too.
And this is not a slur on the campaign as a whole because I think a fantastic job has been done … it just wasn’t enough to give your own vote … it was about ensuring that EVERYONE you know was armed with the correct facts to make an informed decision.
It’s great to belong to the 1.6 million club. I suspect half of them visited this site.
This 1.6m if harnessed correctly is an enormous force for change. Is it time now to get under a single political banner, a new party?
First thing on the manifesto would have to be a media that is representative of the populace and can be held accountable, not for bias, but lies and journalistic integrity.
Meantime how many of the 1.6 would support a move to cancel their TV licences?
The other 2million are not all ‘hard NOs’. Many are fearful and confused. There are already people regretting their frightened decision.
The big snarling independence cat is not going back into the bag easily. Chris how about a cartoon with Hamish with his 1.6m T-shirt on? Bruised and battered but nowhere near dead.
As I posted elsewhere, Westminster might as well reintroduce that missing line into the national anthem, you all know which one I refer to , the 55%s have effectually committed Scotland to its death-bed.
another observation re today’s AS, i’ve had enough of these WM clowns for a while speech.
“ I spoke to the Prime Minister today and, although he reiterated his intention to proceed as he has outlined, he would not commit to a second reading vote by 27th March on a Scotland Bill. That was a clear promise laid out by Gordon Brown during the campaign.
The Prime Minister says such a vote would be meaningless,I suspect he cannot guarantee the support of his party”
devodevoidmax, must vote no! to save the U…….. oh! it’s vanished, it’s become a country, we’ll use it’s other name “britain”, with walesshire, englandshire, northenirelandshire, and scotlandshire.
4 super counties, with WM boss in the middle. phew! that’s hard work, we all need 20% pay rises and in everything we can claim, and shares in all the action, because we’re BT.
Wont be buying the record again. I agree with James 123 lets get rid of Scottish labour MPs they are a disgrace
I warned everyone who’d listen. The ‘Vow’ is a lie. Don’t be fooled. The only good thing that may come out of the back pedaling and reneged promises is a cast-iron case for another Referendum.
Thankyou for this site Stuart. Has warmed my heart. YES won the Campaign. NO won the vote.
@helen
Absolutely correct. And some of them were systematically scared by Labour and BT.
Derek Bateman is right, as well.
Now is the time for unity, not recriminations. Let’s not cheapen the YES side with daft conspiracy theories about rigged votes. Let’s keep our dignity and battle on.
We’ve still got a job to do – put the final nail in Scottish labour’s coffin.
AS will be missed, but by stepping down, he’s taken the heat of NS and shouldered a lot of the blame. Canny move.
Never forget independence is mainstream, now. 45% of the population voting for it has seen to that. It will not go away, it will never be a fringe issue again.
I am ashamed,angry and embarrassed that my generation (those born pre or during WW2) have betrayed future generations (some still unborn) for their own selfish short-term financial fears. Sadly among my peers and acquaintances this is the norm and I have found that I am so often in the minority of one.
But this will pass as this generation dies off and hopefully the next generation will stay true to its beliefs and fight for independence. This will take time and sadly I am unlikely to see a truly Independent Scotland.
How do these people feel now when they sing Flower of Scotland. How can they sing the line ‘but we shall rise now and be a nation again’ without choking on the words. That is something which will have to change.
Stuart this is only my 2nd post – I did one a few minutes ago- but we desperately need you to stay. We need a standard around which we can gather and fight for our freedom. We will lick our wounds and return to the fray re-invigorated and refreshed. If they think we are finished they can think again even although our chief weapon of the referentum has been cheaply given away.
Glad you’re back already, Rev.
And of course, none of us are surprised by this at all. There’s going to be a lot of this in the weeks and months ahead, and it’s up to all of us to keep highlighting it when promises drift away and tunes are changed. We only need to persuade another 6% the next time.
Please keep going feel like slitting my wrists got a text frommy best friend stauch labour supporter whovoted no said she would have been equally gutted by yes vote. She does not get it
If you have any friends down George square way in Glasgow, tell them to take care as their seems to be several loyalist types milling around looking for trouble.
Have not crossed the door today.
For those of us who have been here before we knew what was coming.
I agree with previous posts, the No’ers will not be concerned with the Vow not happening. Most will carry on with the ‘I’m all right’ story. Like a neighbour who has a property portfolio and has said that those on benefits are scroungers and scum and should get of their backsides and find work. Nothing will ever make her change, no vows or promises, cos she’s all right. She’s set up with her horses and her inherited wealth. Fairness is not a word in her vocabulary.
I’m sad to see Alex Salmond go, but if I was an SNP MP I’d pack it in too and leave them all to get on with it. They are not worth the bother.
I’m away back into my wee box for a while at least. Not sure if I’ll ever vote for anything again.
They could have least had the dignity to let the vows/pledges last a few days.
I’m thinking about the meaningless pledges, 2015 General election and 2016 Scottish elections that will then take us up to a possible EU exit referendum in 2017 against the wishes of Scotland.
As well as pay back on selling Scotland out, there has got to be constitutional consequences from our forced exit from the EU.
@Helen, We know some folk have worked tirelessly but no-one can deny 73% of 65+ voted no.
WE are not blaming the yes folk from that age group.
WE know the fault lies with the BBC and MSM but it changes nothing – they have disgraced Scotland in the eyes of the world.
Remember all the happy Yessers in George Sq well that’s gone you’ve now got aggressive BritNat OO types there this evening.
45% of the populace in England would be around 25 million people. Thats the best way to understand the roar we made in Scotland.
Nearly half our populace stood up and chose hope over fear. This is to be cherished and nurtured.
Now about that BBC licence thing… Stu, if there is any funds left can you get us some formal legal advice on what can and cannot be done.
Rev, I just cancelled my sub for the Herald, so you need to keep going. I need the truth warts and all. I would be happy to sub at a reasonable price.
We take a pause for 2 days – draw up a boycote for business that spoke out (not out of hate but for business being involved in politics, because they shouldn’t), fight the bbc (not by cancelling onl licences) but make fully in public view regular protests until the real report of statement of what actually went on behind closed doors, don’t forget the treasury and the leaking of info.
There are still a lot of question we need answered.
One consolation I can see is that any changes to how the Scottish Parliament works have to be debated and agreed by Holyrood (well, at least in law and in theory). An SNP govt will resist changes that Westminster tries to impose.
The other is that Labour in Scotland has been very damaged by all this and it will be hollow victory for them, maybe not in Fife, but certainly in Glasgow and the west.
I can’t help thinking that if we’d really had a separate ‘Scottish Labour’ party that wasn’t directly controlled from London, then it would have acted more in Scotland’s interests and even worked with the SNP in this campaign.
But this is the way Westminster works – divide and rule. Scots are divided because only one of the SNP and Labour are fighting for Scotland’s interests and the ‘tribal’ squabbles hold Scotland back. London has had centuries to perfect this strategy and it still works.
Hope that you will be able to bounce back Stu, it’s been an interesting journey and I don’t think it’s over yet.
1.6m people could boycott the BBC, is still wouldn’t stop what it does.
We’re not getting out of this unless media is devolved, and that will not happen.
I’m a pensioner and my message to all those over 65 who, shuffling towards the grave, trod on the hopes of younger generations and voted to break their spirit and their hearts is this:
Hurry along at the front!
Please keep this site going, it’s the only place I trust to actually tell me the truth anymore. The mainstream media killed us. Now we must kill it. Cancel your tv licence, stop buying papers, join a credit union, shop at Aldi. 1.6 million lost customers may make them think longer about betraying us again.
I’ve honestly spent the day crying, I just can’t believe we lost. WHY were the counts in Dundee and Glasgow so low? Everyone I know, and everyone they know, is heartbroken today…so where are all the no voters coming from?
Sorry, I’m rambling. I am disabled, my DLA will vanish next year no doubt, and the NHS I rely on to keep me alive not long after I would imagine. My son, who is out of work through no fault of his own, has been sanctioned 14 weeks out of the last 16. If I wasn’t sending him food (from my DLA money) he’d have died by now, as it is he weighs 3 stone less (and he wasn’t fat to begin with). I honestly feel we’ve been abandoned and left to die, hopefully without any noise or fuss.
I love this site, please stay Rev <3
I have now finished with all MSM and BBC, STV, ITV, Sky news.
Unfortunately my hubby does not want to cancel the licence fee but I will be working on him until it goes.
“Alex Salmond says when he asked David Cameron about the timetable for more powers, the Prime Minister said it was a meaningless process.”
https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook/status/512985757754331137
Didn’t take them long, did it?
Stew,
What’s the betting on G Brown and A Darling becoming “Sir’s or “Lords” OR both?.
The spirit of Benedict Arnold and Vidkun Quisling burns bright in the Labour and Liberal Parties – I’d rather vote Tory, at least their greed and self-interest is there for all to see.
R.I.P. Scotland! The country I have lived in and loved all my life passed on, peacefully, on 19th September 2014. Killed by fear and stupidity – official verdict … suicide! To all those who have campaigned for YES you can hold your heads high, your cause remains just and your energy and commitment boundless.
My fellow “TRUE” Scots who voted YES, you need only realise one thing, take the same energy, stamina and enthusiasm that was displayed in the YES campaign, (that saw literally thousands of Wee Blue Books printed and delivered, that saw rallies and flash mobs across Scotland, that saw energetic and lively debates etc) and direct it towards the Unionists.
Ed Miliband/Cameron/Clegg/Brown et al made a “vow” if they won’t honour it, PROTEST don’t just stand and accept it, hold rallies, hold flash-mobs, hold debates across Scotland on how the promised devolution will never be delivered.
If they won’t honour their vow point this out and call for the only alternative INDEPENDENCE!! Hold rallies like those that protested against the BBC’s Nick Robinson and his bias.
The YES Campaign displayed great energy and enthusiasm for change, DO NOT LET THIS DISSIPATE.
If the 1.6 million Scots who voted YES take to the streets because of Unionist lies, it will sure as hell cause the establishment a massive headache. If we convince enough NO voters and Scots that they were lied to independence will be unstoppable.
I wonder if you would be willing to help organise such a protest Rev? Or maybe you know those in the YES Campaign/Bella Caledonia/National Collective who could?
I’ve always voted (against the Tories) but I’ve never been an activist. Apart from a CyberNat. That may change now.
However this has me so fizzing mad I can’t describe it. Has there been vote rigging? I don’t know. Will they allow a recount? Lets hope so.
The pressure cannot stop. I think it’s daft to call for the SNP to be disbanded. After all, they got us here in the first place. Whether you’re SNP or not, they are the majority vehicle for the route to independence. Instead of being hostile to the No’s (I wasn’t speaking to them today at work) lets hope the discontent at the Westminster fuckaroo thats about to happen makes them realise they have been sold an enormouse botulism infested turkey.
The bad news is things may have to get worse economically before they get better.
I’m trying to stay positive but right now I have a lump in my throat, as I see the First Minister is stepping down. Kudos to Alex, Nicola & the Yes campaign for getting us this far.
It will take time for our collective wound to heal. Be strong.
We need to oust Scottish Labour at Westminster which might allow SNP/Yes MP’s to hold the balance of power and block legislation designed to stop another referendum.
The removal of the threat of independence has rendered Holyrood impotent and powerless so it is déjà vu, back to Westminster where once again all the power now lies.
I can’t remember if I mentioned this on a previous thread or not. Anyway here it is.
As we all know that snake in the grass in 10 Downing Street has promised the electorate an IN/OUT referendum on membership of the E.U. in 2017 … apparently. We also know that there is a reported significant number Dan Suff that will vote to leave.
I know that one of the major positives from the referendum was that an independent Scotland would remain a member of the E.U. However, having been well and truly shafted by the ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s from London perhaps we can give them payback, with interest, in 2017. Why don’t we all campaign in the 2017 referendum, should Cameron ever find the guts to call it, for an OUT vote. If we can get close to what we achieved last night in 2017 then I think we will be able to push the OUT vote over the line and thereby force Cameron to start negotiating his way OUT of Europe. This will also seriously upset a significant number of the 2 Million NO voting cowards from last night.
I have been saying regularly today that WE will have retribution and that retribution is best served COLD. How sweet it would be, in my view, to see Cameron coming out of Number 10 AFTER the OUT vote had won and concede that he was going to Brussels to initiate how UK will LEAVE the E.U.!
Almost forgot: https://www.facebook.com/wearethefortyfive?fref=nf
Aye, It’s started , jeering unionists creating trouble in George square.
I have3 been grtadually getting madder and madder, as the day has gone on.
I always say: “Don’t get mad – get even”, but, today has been very difficult.
And you know the worst thing, that absolute bawbag from Woking who so-proudly reminded us on a daily basis that he was an Officer of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire is still on the Herald website gloating.
Still, he’s in good company, like Cameron, Clegg, Milliband, Brown, Darling, Murphy, the Alexanders, Lament and Baillie – he has nae class.
But, at least, he didn’t have a vote, unlike the brain dead donkeys who allowed themselves to be seduced AGAIN by Westminster lies and who voted Scotland down.
This time the 45 has to rise and we have to win the next time.
Labour for Independence are issuing a statement in the next few days. Hopefully it’s to break away and form a new Scottish Labour, the party we hoped we’d get after independence.
People are joining the Greens in their droves, and SNP. If we get a true “Scottish” Labour too, and if the SDA ever get their act together, we might just be able to break the grip on the Unionist big beasts.
Then we need a Scottish newspaper to tell the truth (crowdfunding?), and then we might be ready to take on Westminster.
Campaign to crush the red tories…
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-45-of-Scots-Who-Fought-The-Elite/257758727749994
Despite a No victory Scotland has changed for ever not least thanks to Alex Salmond’s leadership as one of the few elected politicians prepared to take on the London establishment.
We need Wings to continue and everyone who supports change to rally behind a non party campaign called for example Yes Scotland National Collective to campaign or even stand for election in next year’s Westminster elections if the SNP can be persuaded campaign behind this umbrella group as a one off exercise in 2015.
The referendum result has not damaged the SNP as I am advised that hundreds of people have joined the SNP overnight, perhaps many more once they find out about the “Vow” backtracking.
We might not agree with everything the SNP does but it still remains the most viable vehicle for change in the UK.
Tattie-bogle,
“you can lead a donkey to water but a pencil must be lead”
Donkeys are more intelligent than very many of the 2,000,000 Scots who voted No.
Big Jock says:
>>Can we get 45 badges made up and distributed. We can wear these with pride and know each other. Do you agree.<<
Henceforth I shall wear my wee blue YES badge – and a 45 when they appear! – so that my fellow 1.6 will know that, like them, I did not betray my country’s future. And when the ConLab reneging gets into full swing, the Nos will lower their eyes in shame.
The politics of greed beat the politics of social conscience or that is how it would appear.
I’m not giving up I realise that we nearly did it and now that the unionists lies are unravelling already with regards extra powers it would be easy to say we told you so but we must let them figure that out with subtlety.
The only way now is to vote for the SNP if it is independence we really want all 1.6 million of us.
@Footsoldier
I agree, it does feel like we are going to be back to Westminster politics and not Holyrood. Something I didn’t particularly envisage.
The streets are dead today.
Stop asking others including the Rev to do things! Surely the lesson from this campaign is do it yourselves. We will not be stopped.
The young and the old vote basically cancelled each other out. The Celtic thing doesnt ring true either, the game was over before 8 O`clock leaving 2 hrs to get to polling station. There was over 10% eligible to vote who didnt even bother to turn up. They were the problem.
Disillusion with the non-delivery of the vow promises will plumb new unfathomable depths in Scotland, there will be fury and a call for revenge. ‘Two radio 5 live commentators winding up the news item’.
Revenge Aye right!. There is only one tory in Scotland, who is next in the line, our socialist pals who scared the old folk.
The next election is less than a year away.
The Daily Record, Gordon Brown and Miliband GTF and in whatever order is appropriate.
A Trojan Horse and Brown as Odysseus whose side is he on
I have no nationality or anything to be recognised by, even aliens know where they come from!
The problem that sticks in my throat and mark my words (we all know it will happen) as soon as some sod moans about Westminster, labour, tories etc etc the 55% NO voters will be as rare as hens teeth, nowhere to be seen.
Scunnered!! Parts of Scotlandshire are shitholes yet the NO voters are happy to maintain them.
Dear Labour,
In order to save your pathetic careers and bash Salmond, you jumped into bed with every right wing Rule britannia nutter in the UK. Take a wee look at George Square tonight, how do you feel? Proud to be british.
I am not one for quoting the bible, but it does seem appropriate to say ‘That which ye sow, that also shall ye reap’.
Well done Labour. F*cking well done.
AS made a clear statement by his unselfish resignation, one which most of us have said many times. “It’s not about Alex Salmond”
He has opened the door and now stands aside to let the Independence movement continue its momentum. Today was only a hesitation in our mpvement.
People need to relax, unwind and recognise that this 1.6m can only grow.
The Unionists can gloat but they cannot cage an idea whose time has come…
And they are more scared of us than we are of them. 1.6 million people with singular purpose beats 60 million in disarray. (Imagine in England today, UKIP? Boris? Westminster elitism? Milliband as a leader? Calls for devolution and federalism)
In a few months, the 1.6 will be 1.9 and still growing….
Stu, with the UK general election in 6 months we will need you to help elect 59 SNP MPs to the UK parliament.
If every single Yes voter put their Uk vote towards the SNP, they’d gain very roughly 45% of the vote which will surely be enough to get an MP elected in each constituency.
Sinky
It would be history repeating itself. In 1992 following the UK General Election of that year Scotland United appeared. Perhaps an all party group might emerge to bring all the pro-independence groupings and individuals of no party together. One strong voice rather many weaker voices.
Croompenstein earlier,
Funny, I was looking at people in the same light on way home today.I’d half of them worthy of a punch !
Big jock,
45 badge is a great idea considering the number has other connotations.
What is the point of a token 50 SNP MP’s in Westminster?
This was one of the arguments for independence for heavens sake, that it’s utterly bloody pointless.
Well at least someone has the guts to speak his mind out loud. That is apart from the members of the newly formed Famous 45 club.
http://tinyurl.com/q6r8b2a
Thank you Rev! WoS has been my second home for god knows how long now. You’ve shown a lot of people how to look behind the veil. I’ve been using the Wee Blue Book the past couple of weeks, giving them out to undecided’s and no’s.
EVERY SINGLE ONE changed to yes.
There may be 55% of voting Scots who welcome being bent over and shafted.
But as one of the 45%, i’m ready to rise up again.
Training Day,
“I don’t think the majority of No voters care about more powers. They’re just scared of any change whatsoever. In fact they’re just scared.”
I agree.
They have been conditioned in this way for so long, they are incapable of independent and rational thinking.
My personal feeling is that a lot of the older generation have much pride in the British Empire and Britain punching beyond its weight. They want to remain part of it.
They don’t realise who benefits most from all this and who pays most for it.
A brighter future for the younger generation as well as the poorer members of society has been sacrificed by these stubborn and selfish people.
We need a consultative referendum to decide which powers we wish to retain in Scotland, and which ones we are willing to devolve to Westminster. Similar to the multi option referendum Iceland held recently. They don’t take long to organise.
If we’ve learned one thing these last months, it is that we require no one’s permission to make decisions on how we run our country, even within the confines of the union.
We need a groundswell of former Yes and No voters to agree to assert our will and determination to have full fiscal devo max. It’s that or revert to our old ovine habits of just waiting to see what we get.
The agreement was brokered by former prime minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour
walofs–its doomed
O/t Scottish Loyalists coordinated attack on Yes crowd in George Sq. BBC as usual trying to make it sound equal. Apparently ‘No’ supporters… not OO nhin types natch
The referendum should be declared NULL and VOID, and another held as soon as possible, with international observers present, preferably from places like Iceland.
Veritas temporis filia – Truth is the daughter of time.
Rule Britannia in George Square as the real Nazis make an odious appearance, and they are on your side Darling. He does not care though as he is on the way to the House of Lords.
@Gallowglass
Lets assume that there are two people to a licence.
0.8 million x £145(?) annual fee is a worthwhile statement to make to the BBC.
Uvf scum in George square silent majority oh sh#t.
Anyway I think we should get the 45 badges up as soon as possible.I want to know who my comrades are from now on. We need to form a movement and get the feel good factor back. It will be good for all of us. We can sit and sulk or work for the next independence referendum.
Another one on the 45 percent. I am just incredibly sad today. What were the No voters thinking? That there were honest Westminster politicians?
Now I wonder. What would happen if all the members of the Famous 45 stopped paying their TV Tax. Well let’s see shall we?
1600000 number of members of the Famous 45 club
£145 cost of annual TV tax
£59,812,500 LOST revenue to BBC!
I wonder how they would survive without that amount of money.
wingman 2020
Totall agree with your comment. This is just a pause, then we carry on the work to secure Scottish independence.
In my opinion, the next referendum in Scotland will be held shortly after Westminster demonstrates it has No intention of giving meaningful more powers to Scotland. So, I reckon that’ll be about, oh maybe October 2014.
The fight continues. Of that be sure. It is Scotland’s Parliament, not Westminsters. It is not London’s plaything. it is in Scotland where the powers need to be decided, not in London.
I’m refusing to go to the BBC website or watch their misinformation news service. Are there any other sites showing what is happening in George square?
PS Welcome back Rev. My gut tells me this isn’t over. Possibly hope over fear again.
God bless Dundee, North Lanarkshire, West Dunbarton and Glasgow; and don’t forget Inverclyde was virtually 50/50.
I’ve spent most of the past 20 hours feeling physically sick with devastation, but I got talking to someone I see occasionally through my work, and he counselled me to take heart and look at the longer term. He pointed out that despite appearances we had achieved an amazing thing against huge odds and that our time would come again. And he said quite rightly that each and every one of us should feel proud for having had the courage and the hope to do what was right.
Keep the faith, everyone and keep fighting; if we give up now then we are betraying all those people who went out and voted for the first time in their lives because they wanted to believe in something better.
Please stay with us Rev, if you can face it; we need a place where we can find the truth and replenish our faith in compassion and social justice.
Look at this in a dispassionate way. Many will feel they have lost for one reason or another, i.e. selfish pensioners, but if you step back you will see that the foundations have been laid to expose the ruling elite at Westminster and Scottish Labour for what they really are. There have never been stronger sticks with which to beat this two- headed snake, and as time goes by then dissatisfaction will inevitably set in and undermine the public faith in the system, especially if we are there to point the finger of blame in the right direction. I believe it will be a certainty that the S.N.P. will win the next election by a long way and be in a position to capitalise on this mood, especially as Nationalism will spread in England courtesy of U.K.I.P. KEEP THE FAITH AS YOUR TIME IS NEARER THAN YOU THINK.
James Kelly of Scot Goes Pop is have a fundraiser as he wishes to continue;
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/scot-goes-pop-the-second-fundraiser
O/t sorry,
But great article over on “Bella” just now, sorry can’t do link .
Just started to cancel TV/WEB/MOB/Phone packages with Virgin. Started with SKY Sports need to look for new providers on other stuff. TV Licence to follow soon, pay quarterly. Funny internet just gone down.
On other topic my wife and I are both 61. We voted YES for our grandchildren, we would not have seen the benefits but thinking of the future.
Please don’t slag all older folks many voted YES. I hope to live long enough to vote again but according to How long will I live web site I’ll go at 68yrs and 5mths so only 7years for the return vote and only 3yrs of the state pension that I’ve paid into since 17.
I see the True Blues are out in George Sq tonight. We were there the last 2 nights and great time. Ah well they only needed time.
Stu you’ve said it many times before Better Together just keep giving. Your future is secure. We must keep this site going.
have = having 🙁
If I am still here, I will vote to take the UK out of the EU.
I will vote for any party that will bring down Lab including the cons.
If there is an election soon, I will hold my nose vote con as it will be the only way to get rid of Murphy.
We have lost more than we realise today, WM would love a NI situation to develop here.
It allows them to divide and rule and all you computer literate Lab voters out there you need to think long and hard.
Hopefully there will be calm later on but we will lose a lot of good people who will leave never to return.
Murphy, Lamont, Darling Clunking fist – I hope you are proud of yourselves
Live feed from George Sq
http://tinyurl.com/l5lj4aa
Heartbreaking.
Doesn’t it make you feel just ever so proud Muttley? I mean to know that as a result of the FEARTIES voting NO yesterday their best friends have all come out to play tonight!
I hope ALL the FEARTIES are watching all this in their homes safe in the knowledge that THEY are all part of this, ALL of this Orange Order, B.N.P., E.D.L. etc! Oh what a glorious web of deceit they weave!
We give them nothing.Do not buy newspapers.Vote SNP on
everything.Give NS as much power as we can,and let’s see what she can do with it,she’ll still have AS at her back
Nothing for Tories Libs or Labs
I can’t stand seeing these BNP KKK types all over the place
As most of you know, i’m 65.but i do know what you mean about pensioners..I need my night nurse now for a wee lie down..
A friend,who is an oap activist,expressed concern last week at our YES stall.
He was seeing signs that many of the older generation, were ill informed and scared stupid about independence.Many of these were also loyal labour voters too,and felt they should vote NO for this reason also.
He wondered why YES scotland had not set up a Pensioners for YES group,they would have had plenty of takers for setting up stalls(himself included)and would have had there own publicity and campaign material.
Did we miss a trick? Maybe,I certainly saw scores of pensioners casting there vote at my local polling station.Very few made eye contact and the sign the local labour patrty put up’vote NO,its not worth the risk’in big red letters may have swayed some soft Yes voters.
But I dont blame the older generation,all those i befriended voted YES with a passion and they will never see another chance to vote for their beloved Scotland.
Stand strong everyone,ive loved being a part of this and us 45% will be here to fight another day.
Im a yes voting pensioner, disgusted by the selfish greedy inward lookers who voted no. Like the sound of the 45 movement and will inform grandkids, good luck all
‘No’ voters will be rarer than hen’s teeth in the coming months. I am …. a little disappointed.
This is like a bereavement. All my family feel so sad at this missed golden opportunity.
Rule brittania idiots in george square rioting
I hate this union
An alert TV-viewer saw this, then rewatched it on a player or on Plus-1 and recorded it on his phone. (Please share on social media.) It shows someone opening a ballot box and pulling out a nice, neat pile of ballot papers which have not even been folded in half. British secret-service vote-rigging caught on camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rtzhuMJqwY
Stu hope you hang around without this website I would emigrate. With it I will fight on… as I drove to work in Inverness over the last few weeks a wooden version of the wee blue book appeared on a tree and I really thought the moment would be grasped by our country… so many people arent informed enough and that suits the powers that be…we need the wee blue book to morph into a monthly that more people begin to turn to as the lack investigative journalism by the main stream media becomes even more pathetically obvious.
We have to get rid of new labour before anything. number one priority.
Labour will pay a very heavy price in Scotland for theit role in siding with the Tories.
Im starting to feel like an oppressed minority,
Im over 55
and I come from Fife,
please dont hate me!
I will never unite with UVF scum. Scotland was always a divided country. Good people and nasty Brits. Its the 45 against these type of people.
john king honey – nae chance doll, you’ll always get a hug from me.
Shit,i forgot,we have to play England at Hampden soon right?
Puala Rose
mwa mwa
Unless somebody pulls a rabbit out of a hat, and quickly, I suspect this is all going to dissolve away under the same political come media barrage that afflicted the campaign.
There is no sentiment being carried over that we were robbed like in ’79, and the subsequent decade. It’s a tacit acceptance of that system, and I’m afraid to say that it looks likely to remain with us for the long term.
Yesterday, the world descended on Scotland to witness the birth of a nation. Today they leaving having learnt three things:
Scotland is not too wee to be independent,
Scotland is not too poor to be independent,
Scotland is apparently too stupid to be independent.
‘Wings Over Scotland’
45% proof
Walked through a grey. misty Edinburgh today – fitted my mood.
Met 5 guys from the Basque country near St Giles on the High Street who had come to join us in hope and expectation – had a wonderful conversation which provided me with just a little solace as we shook hands and wished each other well for the future. Helped a very little in coping with a strong sense of walking through a city in which a majority had denied its status of a country capital – do regions of North Britain need a capital city? Do regions need a national anthem?
Just knocked the door of a near neighbour I had never spoken to before but we had both displayed YES signs – new contact, renewal of commitment to something better for Scotland. Decided me to make my YES pin a long term fixture on my jacket.
And then scenes this evening from George Square, Glasgow. Question for all you researchers out there: when was the last time a UK monarch acknowledge publicly and thanked the Orange Order for its unstinting loyalty?
Why are people not talking about the obvious vote rigging that is being shown on you tube
How did they come up eith the age/income breakdowns of voters?
Free Scotland
they might be postal votes.
We have to get rid of new labour before anything. number one priority.
Aye, first task. No bother for the ‘45% come the UKGE in May under FPTP. Wipe them out.
They (Scottish Labour) then might wonder whether the union is worth it.
And to add to my comment at 7.48, our Wing’s ‘alert reader’ badges have relevance for ever!!!
I agree 100% that the pressure really needs to be kept up till the promised “powers” arrive…aye right.
Perhaps a non-Yes, non-SNP, non-wings freestanding effort may be the best idea ?
Just registered the45.scot in case its of any use ?
One thing I found a lot when doing my bit, was a mistrust of ALL politicians. They tried to make this about Eck because they knew – as I found – that a lot of people hate him. I personally and viscerally detest Gordon Brown. I always disliked him, but it is a Thatcheresque hatred I now have for him. If we go on we need clean – or at least honest – politicians. Is that possible?
I have donated a bit to the SNP over the past few years but never formally signed up. I have resolved to Join.
I will cancel my postal vote. I know it is handy, but I know they could be read and I would rather take my chances with ballot boxes.
I was in Tesco today ( not Asda 🙂 ) and wondered at each passing old person, whether they were in that minority who put their grandchildren’s future before their pension – which DWP guaranteed anyway!. But I know 5 at least pensioners who did vote Yes, so picking on their “benefits of SNP ringfencing” is not so fair.
I saw a post about Bruce’s spider. Perhaps the 45% badge designs should have a spider in there.
I learned a lot during this campaign. I learned that the asians of Pakistani origin voted with us. Some campaigned. Many tipped me that wink or smile which told me they belong with us here. Same with many English Scots. I learned that the Orange Order is a malignant force in our society. I propose that our anti sectarian laws be used with as heavy a hand as possible against that evil organisation. And I saw that Labour machine in action – formidable.
I will still vote at every election the rest of my life for the SNP. I never expected to get this far. So I am disappointed but not devastated. We continue our long march.
I have some ideas for actions. I suggest we actively campaign for none of our young people to join the armed forces for example.
We need to build on this campaign. Perhaps umberella groups to coordinate action by different groups sharing our aim. Yes Scotland did well. These web sites – Wings etc – need to go on.
And as I told someone today. This tide of Nationalism in Scotland goes in and goes out. But every spring the tide comes further up the beach. We will be Independent one day.
Councillor intimidated by Unionist thugs in George Square tonight gets it on video
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202433758517846&fref=nf
@Andy – because it is a side show to distract us from re grouping.
Even if it is true, who’s going to deal with it – the EC?
I know I keep saying but rev could you set up a O/T thread and move all the we wuz robbed people there.
BTW said earlier about moving to a different country but want to be near my daughters, hubby suggested Dundee.
So Yes Dundee here we come. At least them when I’ve recovered I’ll join the 45% group.
A young Economics graduate in Dundee sent me this just now
https://www.change.org/p/we-are-the-45-working-together-to-protect-scotland-s-interests#
Great minds…
stewartb
we had so many friends come to join us and wish us well, i now feel a deep sadness.
like they we’re just cut off from our generosity, and we were unable to show our full hospitality to people who come from all over the planet to support us.
for the sake of what ffs, many factors i know.
then we have scenes that are playing out in glasgow, what a difference a day makes.
i know we’ll get through this and come out stronger and with even more support than before, it’s a process of self determination.
we will prevail, one day.
I had printed off the form to renounce my British citizenship and was filling it in, the missus went aff on wan you can’t actually do that you eejit. I just want to frame it and hang it on the wall says I, aye that’ll be right. Think I will also sign up to the SNP I have never been in any political party but this does not stop here. and johnking you are a proud member of the 45 🙂
@ Davidb
Perhaps the 45% badge designs should have a spider in there.
Brilliant vision. 🙂
Just in case folks have not seen it, here’s a photo someone put up on the previous thread.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx6YVeRIgAAQ6jN.jpg:large
The No campaign relied on promising new powers for Scotland in the event of a no vote, arguably, that’s how they won. But already, I can see that Westminster is reneging on that promise. To give an example, George Osbourne said that reforms were being worked on and would be ready to put in place “Immediately after a no vote”, i.e. those reforms should be ready to go NOW. But David Cameron is quoted in today’s Guardian that any reforms won’t happen until after the next general election.
Surely there are those out there that will challenge the legitimacy of the NO vote seeing as their vow/Pledge is already unravelling?
Posted on the previous article but not sure it would get read – reason below.
I live in a different time zone and haven’t been able to follow all the threads but maybe that makes me more objective (but nonetheless disappointed).
First of all – did you really expect the evil empire (and I really do believe it is evil to the core)to play fair and go quietly?
Secondly, did you really expect a population that has been subject to a colonial mentality for three centuries to change so entirely so quickly?
Thirdly, no real Newspaper or tv supported or was even fair to your cause.
Nevertheless
45! percent of the vote! The largest urban area in Scotland strongly YES and nowhere in Scotland less than a third of the vote. Vast swaths of the population politically conscious for the first time. Lying leaders utterly exposed. You don’t seem to realize what wonders you have accomplished.
Leslie-Anne and Hamilton are right now is NOT the time to give up.
Rev… take a well-earned rest but not a long one and come back and be a leader of the resistance because a resistance will be sorely needed because we all know what an Englishman’s promise is worth (not racist – they don’t even keep promises to their own people.)
The faithful 45 will need lots of support and help and even the faithless 55 are Scots and however foolish, annoying, ignorant or self-centred are our people. How would any of us be if we were abandoned to our own silly selves if we made a bad – very bad – decision?
45% is an immensely strong base to build a future on. There is no party in all the Benighted Kingdom who can claim such strength. So everybody man-up (I don’t know the non-sexist term for this – please enlighten me)- take a (short) break and join the resistance and free Scotland town by town, institution by institution,, firm by firm, family by family – and show the waverers and fainthearted that one defeat – no matter how horrendous- does not mean the war is lost.
Again Rev … take a well-earned break and then PLEASE get back to the forefront where you are needed to rally the troops and necessary to expose the enemies’ lies. You are one of the people thrown up by history to MAKE history. Your “troops” will be ready and waiting.
Has anyone even considered the idea the whole media storm was a diversion so the powers that be could begin the rigging – were assuming the postal votes were pensioners voting no. But let’s look at the postal vote – project fear/lie ramped up its fear campaign after the postal vote was in – the postal vote was the easier to fix than any other – the postal vote was 70% no – a higher no vote than even the safest no council. The postal vote should have reflected a figure closer to the 55.3 – 44.7 result – thoughts?
There will be good work for con artists in North Britain. The people seem pretty thick & easily fooled, especially the old ones.
Had a wee nap and woke up to post NO all unravelling already. Glasgow, george Sq, now looks like Belfast in the 70s. (Ms Hamma there with Brown?) Labour ineptitude and Tory arrogance of the 80s. Back to the future. We end up with a FM that is head and shoulders above the rest and he resigns. I believe the 45 will stay, the 55 will dissolve back to party behaviour. Lamont cannot even bring herself out of party mode on FM resignation. Dissolve Holyrood now and take it back to the people now as WM squabbles.
there is really no point in imagining this was rigged. even if it was there is nothing we can do about it. bUt it is not plausible that so many were a result of rigging
This is conspiracytheory stuff
@Big Ali
“Glasgow has shown the way.”
Ahem! Dundee reported first and we had a bigger turnout and a much bigger majority of Yes. You weegies need to get behind us Dundonians. I sweated for that result and you are not going to take it off me or others here.
@ paul D
no not too stupid
too selfish to be independant
well they had all better part there bum cheecks and wait to be shafted..(AGAIN) unfortunetly we all get shafted along with them…just got a email from asda asking why i havent shopped with them in a while…unfuckin believable
If you want to avoid the UK MSM, France 24 has an online news site in English with a bit of referendum aftermath coverage. There may be ads before video reports.
http://www.france24.com/en/
There are links to AFP stories in English down the right of the page, e.g.:
http://www.france24.com/en/20140919-salmond-scottish-leader-so-close-dream/
Alex Salmond has said hes standing down because he believes the scottish government will be better led without him.
Now if its because he cant b arsed anymore then cool.
But if really believes that then we gotta tell him that hes the best man for the job.
Can somebody bring me up to speed on the 45 thing I discussed this morning, with some folks. Has the idea developed since then
@Muscleguy – as I said we are moving to Yes Dundee. I know Glasgow also voted Yes but I cannot bring myself to live in a Labour controlled council
Okay folks let’s play a little guessing game here:
How long will it be before, (apart from brass necked unionist politicians), we can’t find anyone who will admit to having voted no? I go for three months max.
Any other bids?
Fiona 3 weeks ago much like yourself I was totally anti conspiracy – but then 3 weeks ago I would have argued till I was blue in the face the bbc was an honourable organisation
@David – troll
Im serious liz
I can’t believe just how incredibly stupid us Scots are. We elect the SNP with a mandate for an ‘independence vote’. We spend 400+ Million on a new parliament building for them. We eventually get the vote – and give it all away. Including the newly discovered oil fields. We now also accept the massive austerity that’s on the way AND the massive debt building up in our name.
You couldn’t make it up. Thick as feck. Officially !
THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD 🙁
I love that idea hotn. You got in there quick good for you. 😉
It looks like the OO and its knuckle-dragging followers have been given free pardon to strut their stuff all over Scotland.
Interesting, isn’t it? What’s next, pogroms and ethnic cleansing?
What if we started the ”YES Party”.
Do we have any clever people who could start and run such a thing?
This is just a small point, but many keep repeating how the No vote won because of the last-minute promise of new Powers etc. In one of Lord Ashcroft’s polls it states that 70% of No voters decided over a year ago. Maybe a few were swayed by the powers but I suspect they had a higher voter turnout because they were simply against the whole idea of no longer being British, combined with a belief that Scottish men and women are not up to the job of running a country properly. The promise of powers, I suspect, is more to placate an increasingly agitated Welsh, Northern Irish and English electorate who also are not happy with the status quo. None of this will be worth a damn, imo. As long as you have society run by crooked banks and the military-industrial-governmental complex which steadily, inexorably results in the rich getting richer relative to the poorer members of society, all these changes will just devolve administrative responsibility for running various programs (with less and less money, the amount of which they will never be able to control) without devolving any real power.
Independence is the only way. And that includes independence from the central banking system. And that is HIGHLY unlikely. The only countries which have tried – like Iraq, Syria, Libya and now Russia – have been attacked ruthlessly. They couldn’t possibly attack Scotland that way, but they have plenty of tools to make sure that true independence will never happen.
Did anyone ever ask Salmon a hard-hitting question about why staying with the crooked Bank of England / BIS system was a good idea for a newly independent country? I doubt it. Anyway, you guys must be hurting. I live in Cape Breton and followed this the past months and recently dared to hope that for the first time in my life a country would stand for freedom and claim it. I am bitterly disappointed that it didn’t happen for have no doubt this is the last time in my life (am now 59) that will see such a thing. Hopefully in about 20 years you can do it again and do it right: DON’T have a Party Leader (no matter how gifted) lead the charge. You have to have an entirely non-aligned, non Party movement (and then get rid of that ridiculously polarizing, dysfunctional system!).
All best.
From the stalls I spoke to in and around Edinburgh they were all packing up about 8 and heading out to the count.
I imagine that was the case across the country. There were supposed to be Wings spotters, and other than this fire alarm business that I’ve heard patches and that odd box of banded ballots I think the process was most probably robust. I commend the spirit of many, but we have nothing to do until the ball is anywhere near our court. Unfortunately it is now the prevaricating unionist control.
Skybolt – got it in one. Watching the live feed in George Sq. Rangers tops on show, Union flags everywhere, mounted police. Yes campaign have used that Sq for days at a time with not one bit of bother.
Scunnered 08:10 pm
I agree, “selfish” works as well.
I popped in to see my Gran this afternoon who gleefully told me she voted No. When She told me that she hadn’t bothered reading the WBB I had to pretty much turn on my heels before I broke in to tears again and said something inappropriate.
This is going to take a while to get over.
liz says @ 8.14
Gonnie no dae that,
jist,
gonnie no! 🙁
I’ve just turned 68. I worked from the SNP landslide for YES before it was YES.
As far as I am concerned, the best thing for SNP to do is to appoint Messrs Rennie, Lamont and Davidson as the negotiating team for the Scottish Government with Cameron et alia in London. Messrs Rennie, Lamont and Davidson thought this was wonderful, so let them explain us via the MSM particularly BBC Scotland.
The SNP should then form a caretaker government (no new legislation) until the next elections. All programs should be cut to meet the monies available. Cuts should reflect the voting patterns i.e. since the over 65s voted No, they obviously do not consider home social care for the elderly important. So let us cut that out starting today.
Proceed further in the same vein.
Well, you can say what you like about Johann Lamont, but she is not as daft as she looks.
She was right about at least 55% of those who voted in the referendum.
They were not genetically programmed to make a political decision.
The stupid bastards.
JUST LOOK WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO SCOTLAND.
Have to agree with others going after some kind of “rigged” conspiracy is a pure waste of time. You can possibly involve that many people to get a 10% shift, or even 6% – its all very marginal.
As far as am led to believe rangers are bankrupt by xmss
anyone watch channel 4
Emily thornbery–labour MP
Malcolm rifkind
new powers—saying a chasm is being kind
Emily didn’t seem to realise Gordon browns time-table
VOW is a plate of warm shate
Croompenstien says
“johnking you are a proud member of the 45 :)”
Thanks Croompenstein
first time I have laughed today. 🙂
Thank you Reverend Stu. Your commitment has been super-human. You have raised my consciousness. I have learned so much from you.
We have to get real. I’m in tears as I write this but, the idea of Scottish Statehood is dead. They will never allow us another referendum. Even if they did, there will be many more frightened pensioners in twenty years. We’re just Jocks now. Just an amusing sub-culture like Geordies and Scousers. We are all Northbritishers now.
We can’t use the saltire as our banner. The myth or Scotland is no longer a trusted brand.
But could we accept and own our new identity? Could we broaden our constituency by reaching out to our brothers and sisters in England? Could we harness the power of the millions of disaffected Southbritishers under the banner of something like Wings Over Britain? So that the movement that started as a quest for Scottish democracy grows and blossoms into a New British Protest?
It is over. We need to think again.
I am puzzled as to why the secrecy surrounding the Macrone Report was not highlighted by the yes campaign to show how devious the supporters of the union were and still are. Tony Blair and Donald Dewar connived to move 6000square miles into English waters with no consultation, the sheer audacity and cunning is almost unbelievable and according to many experts from all over the world illegal, and again this was never highlighted. A relative and close friend made a comment in the Letters in the Dundee Courier referring to all the above, and received nearly 100 telephone calls from readers who had never heard of or understood the significance of the Macrone Report and were unaware of the moving 6000 Sq miles into English waters, and were changing from know to yes on learning , if one comment in the Courier can have this impact on readers of the courier , why oh why was this not communicated to the the rest of Scotland , Many Scots will begin to have doubts of the sincerity of the YES Campaign
Mugs the lot of you no voters. Scotland has billions of barrels of oil & only 5million people. You could have been the Dubai of the north, one of the worlds richest nations.
Who cares about using the pound at $100 a barrel in a peak oil world oil talks.
Now they`ll just send the profits down south to pay for more London skyskrapers and tax cuts for Essex bankers.
As we all know we’ve been well and truly screwed over. There is no chance of new powers from any of them.
This could be our only chance.
First May 2015,General Election, remember Cameron,Clegg,Milliband and their treachery. Lets try and send as many SNP and Green MP’s to Westminster armed with the measure of disrupting the parliament as much as possible.
Second 2016 Scottish Parliament Election. We have Lamont, Davidson and whatshisname from libdems. Total bloody nose lets try and fill Holyrood with SNP and Green MSP’s. Might just be the catalyst needed to make the naysayers change.
lOOK on the bright side people: they will start a world war to preserve their profits: and the cannon fodder are all at george square atm 😉
I was devastated most of the day, but reading this has bucked me up no end. We can’t let mediocrities like Lamont, Curran and Murphy imagine they’ve beaten the most joyous inspiring campaign imaginable. East Germany didn’t get rid of their principles-free leadership in 1953. It took till 1989. Let’s hope it doesn’t take us that long.
Had to be sung-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M
Oh please I need to be part of the 45. My ancestor a redoubtable Alexander ‘Iverach’ Campbell born 1698 fought in the first rising but was turned down for the ’45 as being too old – he then lived in Glen Calvie and reportedly died there at 117years and buried in the original graveyard at Croick. Written about in the local newspaper of the time and old school documents in Golspie when he studied the English language for the first time in his 90s.
Passed the Shock and Denial Stage (just) – making my way slowly through the Anger Stage ( I’m afraid I let rip at two neighbours – don’t care) – expect to enter Bargaining Stage sometime next week …. as for the remaining stages well …. just applied to join the SNP and after a few glasses of Mad Fish, who knows?
Is there one word for horrified/shame/devastation and sod the shysters?
I find it strange that the strongest yes supporting cities had the lowest turnout,
there are videos out there of rigging happening
Quick question, of Labour and the Lib dems are wiped out at the next election and a majority of SNP MPs are returned would that trigger another referendum?
Who won! My take on the outcome of the referendum.
The protagonists were Scot’s Working class V the Establishment
The Establishment side comprised; The might of the, “Mother of Parliaments”, Westminster. Conservative, Labour, Lib/Dem, UKIP, BNP and all of the other parties of England, Northern Ireland and Wales. , the press, television, the military elite, all big business conglomerates, Labour and Conservatives support Israel, The Chipping Norton set, The house of Lords, The USA, Australia and just about any other head of state Cameron could rope in, all of the billionaires created on the sweat and early deaths of the working classes. The oil barons bought off with the offer of easier money to be made from Fragging contracts in England.
The list is endless but I need to include the 1.8 million Scots, (considering only the protection of their newly found wealth) voted to stay with the Union. Once more the words of Burn’s is apt, “bought and sold for English gold”. Except the gold is black and having been stolen from the Scottish nation a small amount of the proceeds are handed back to Scotland to be used to provide the nicer things in life for a few in the North East of Scotland and the Isles.
But such wealth is not a given and in time, meeting the need to pay off £1.7 Trillion accumulated debt it will be squeezed and removed taking many of those who voted no back to their roots. Austerity!!! The measures to be introduced within the next 9 months will be brutal. Hell mend ye’.
The Independence side comprised; The working class people of Scotland. Just under 2 million and all those who campaigned for the cause. Politicians and Trades Unionists whose hearts are truly with Scotland. The internet, (keep it free from the controls of Westminster or we are all lost). That’s just about it
Who won? Those that voted, “yes”. Time and right is on our side. Scotland will, one day, become a nation again..
@john king – he suggested AS couldn’t be arsed – that is wrong on every level
@bjsalba – agree 100%
frazer allan whyte
imo great post. 🙂
yes we did, and we know what we have achieved.
we did change quickly, the hope and power of real democracy, quickly opens eyes like a light being turned on.
but then again it was already burning, but hidden from view, or obscured.
oppressed from sight.
we had to grab this elusive opportunity quickly, for the greater cause and common good.
therefore we had to take a risk and open up our hidden passions for true socialism, to others.
therefore we don’t need to man up.
nor are we troops.
but inspired by what feels right.
we all believe passionately, in our cause.
see if you hadn’t of posted that, i would not have gain this extra insight, that i just have.
JET JOCKEY you must be either a troll or terminally stupid, if you think that we could have got that message or any other across to the general population of Scotland given the barefaced shameless dishonesty of all the mainstream media. If you haven’t got anything helpful to say then fuck off and join your no friends who just signed the death warrant of the Scottish NHS.
Ah well! Her Majesty has finally spoken stating that Scotland will unite in a “spirit of mutual respect and support” following the independence referendum.
Meanwhile me (HRH) will sit back in the knowledge that the “Scottish” plebs have granted me and my parasitical offsprings more wealth for the small gesture of a “wave” and more royal offsprings.
GIRUY you fucking idiots.
with you “proud cybernat & drunken hobo” the nearly dead have f/d the rest of us the ones who no one ever notices who last night slipped in and out of the polling stations all over the country and quietly stole the future of so many people because they are either to stupid or to scared to listen and see the truth thats right in front of them ,aye well f/n done
Kevin Evans
Hope your right, cause they will be coming to a major city near
you, next year.
Welcome back Stu – we need you more than ever!
Can someone please explain how you know who voted no? I am seeing a lot of claims about the elderly but where is that knowledge coming from? there are lots of regulars at wings who are over pension age and they voted yes (unless they are all liars about age or vote)
Fact is that two million voted no. there are not that many pensioners in Scotland so far as I am aware
Please resist this divide and rule
Stu you have done an amazing job and we are all eternally grateful for you hard work and zeal, Wings has been an inspiration b but we still need you.
If the Three Stooges break their pledge on “extensive “new powers at the time they stated, then this would have to be exposed and those responsible held to account. I am sure if you decided to keep the site going there would be plenty of donations forthcoming, or D/D`s.
There are no newspapers that I want to read anymore apart from the Sunday Herald or tv news channels that I respect so Wings would be a great source of information
Fiona honey we arise and we will do it xx
Jet Jockey says:
“I am puzzled as to why the secrecy surrounding the Macrone Report was not highlighted by the yes campaign to show how devious the supporters of the union were and still are.”
The Yes campaign was much too nice and more concerned about being positive, turning the other cheek in spite of BT chucking barrowfulls of hate an shite.
They didn’t have the bite and guts to kick them back in the goolies.
I have seen many people saying that the Westminster elections are irrelevant and that the SNP can’t make an impact here. Surely the parties and groups which compose Yes Scotland should form a party/alliance to select one candidate for each Westminster seat and harness the 45%. A strong showing could sweep away SLAB and you could hold the balance of power in the next UK parliament. Obviously each group should campaign separately for Scottish Parliament elections, but surely they could hammer out a common platform for their dealings with the UK government/parliament?
I know this seems like the stuff of fantasy but you need some kind of plan to challenge Westminster again. The only thing they respect is power.
Hmm…makes me wonder, Edinburgh agreement talks. Salmond to Cameron,”give me this referendum and between us we will fuck new labour forever! ” cam to AS,”I don’t get you” AS to cam,” well if we win labour lose 45 seats in WM, and if we lose you offer more devo to all regions plus an English only parliament . Again they loose 45 seats for EP and you get Tory gov majority, you know the west Lothian question! We get much more devo. Deal?” Cam to AS ,”fuck me alex your a genius, where’s that pen!” New labour are now centre right party in Scotland and they just betrayed their support in the industrial heartlands. No wonder they fuckin hate AS, he has now outed them totally! This is just the next step folks, time to regroup and focus.
What “extensive new powers” would those be, McDuff? They could keep every vow they made to the letter and we still would get FA
I think Liz he was simply piting out that Alex Salmond has had twenty years of listening to the shit he gets from the msm and the uninformed,
Anyone who has stood for the crap he has had to take would be excused if he “couldnt be arsed” anymore
reading too much into an innocent comment Liz
Heres a musical interlude for ye Liz,
Lets see how long it is before you want to chuck your computer through the window!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm5EBDa42ck
Oh FFS pretence at self analysis from BBC News24 now
“Did the BBC maintain balance coverage?”
Bastards!
🙁
Hi stu…im new lol…i know its a bit late joining…but as they say …better late than never…just to say my whole family voted yes…and just to let you know…like what others are saying…we will get a baw booting, big time and ignored as your piece highlights.
P.S. STU…although i have just joined i have been reading peoples opinions etc…for a long time…Please stay stu…as alex salmonds left…we dont need you to go as well…a bad day for independence supporters everywhere.
piting=pointing 🙁
@scottish_skier says: 7:52 pm “We have to get rid of new labour before anything. number one priority.”
Listen guys we would not have got anywhere near 45% without Labour for Independence, RIC, Business for Yes, etc. etc. We are a broad church (including Religious Fallen Women for Yes) that came together as a movement as the campaign developed.
It’s so easy to piss off the Labour guys with whome I spent many hours supporting during the campaign with and vice versa, so yes it hurts so much just now, but we will need everyone again.
Also Stu needs a re-charge, so give the guy a rest for now, he must be shattered with what has happened.
And don’t fling out all those battered Yes badges we wore with real pride, we may need them again.
Can someone verify that all the Yes Scotland records and documents in the central office have been secured?
James Caithness says
“What if we started the ”YES Party”. ”
Better Idea,
What if we start a WINGS party 🙂
Is anyone questioning the long held principle of the SNP that a positive campaign will always beat a negative one?
I think any drive to get 100% SNP MSPs elected would be madness, and doomed from the outset to boot.
The last thing we need is to be seen to be building a one-party state. From what I’ve seen on twitter, people are resiging their membership of Labour (they don’t really deserve the prefix “Scottish” any more) and joining the Greens.
They’re the ones to promote as the credible alternative to Labour, to hopefully squeeze out the unionist parties. We only need to sway 400,000 to one of these parties to have a majority, and there must be plenty of Nos realising in horror today what they’ve voted for.
We’re closer than we were the last time we started and we know what to expect now. But we need to start round 2, now.
Well yes, if he genuinely wants to retire then thats great.
But if its because he (AS) thinks hes not the best choice then i must admit i cannot see ANYONE crucifying the Westminster bstds like he could.
Ive already put in an email of support to the SNP saying i think he is the best person for the job and Scotland still needs his abilities
Hope the proud Scots NO’s are very proud of their fellow travellers creating mayhem in George square. As my old man used to tell me “be careful what you wish for because you might just get it”.
SLAB, TOLLIES, LIBS, EDF, O/O, BNP. Their all proud to be British and their leaders in Westminster are about to show you how democracy can be abused and their EBC/MSM friends will give a perfect demonstration of lies deceit and propaganda to cover up their dirty work.
O what a twisted web we weave when we when we spin our yarns to deceive.
I will die a nationalist, I will do my wee bit to achieve FREEDOM.
I think it is asking too much for Socialist, Green and Labour independence supporters to vote SNP.
I have an idea. Let us form a Yes Party with the sole aim of independence and fight all elections as an united party from now on.
The SNP has followed left of centre policies so I think these groups getting together is very much possible.
Fighting together as Yes, we can continue to demand an independence referendum everytime we get a majority.
The demand for independence continues. We are not going to wait 10 years, let alone a generation.
We cannot allow 1,600,000 passionate Yes voters to drift away – we continue to build on that number from TODAY.
Hi John, Agree that Alex Salmond has taking a lot more crap and insults than most politicians, mostly thanks mostly to our publicly funded arseholes in BBC.
But isn’t nice to be able to sit aloof from all the shit slinging in full knowledge that oneself and family are beyond reproach and only have to fart and every arseswipe pleb drops to their knees in adulation.
FFS it’s the 21st Century.
At the General Election in 2015 could we put a single ‘Yes Scotland’ candidate in every Scottish seat. They will represent all Yes groups, Greens, SNPs etc.
If a majority of these candidates are elected both numerically and in seats won surely we will have a mandate for independence.
Fiona @ 8.29
whoo bwaa whhooo hahahahahahahaha,
What?
for target practice you mean?
OK folks please tell me I am NOT watching what I think I’m watching here!
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10201496218046165&set=vb.1797702758&type=2&theater
could do
YES—SNP
YES–independent labour
stand aside each district
My previous comment explains why the Tory offer was more expansive and DC still agreeing time scale whereas labour are now dragging their heals. Watched channel 4 news asking labour MP about this outside WM tonight, she was gob smacked, catching flies. Much to the amusement of the Tory MP 🙂
balgayboy says
“But isn’t nice to be able to sit aloof from all the shit slinging in full knowledge that oneself and family are beyond reproach and only have to fart and every arseswipe pleb drops to their knees in adulation.
FFS it’s the 21st Century.”
EH?
Amen Stephen McKenzie
More divide and rule. Lets not do that. Lets remember that 45% is not a wee homogeneous group: it can’t be
A lot of YES folk on Twitter today saying they are/have just joined a political party for the first time, usually SNP or Greens.
Seems like an obvious good plan at this stage.
Lots of mentions of TV-license cancelling too.
To those to whom it may concern on these pages.
DON’T YOU BE THINKING THAT ALL OF US WHO’S APPEARANCE IS THAT OF THE PENSIONER AGE GROUP, VOTED ‘NO’,
I AM 73 YEARS OF AGE AS IS MY WIFE. WE VOTED “YES”.
THERE WAS NONE MORE STEADFAST IN OUR INTENTION TO DO SO.
HAVE I TO CONTINUE TO WEAR MY “YES” BADGE TILL I DIE?.
IF THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES I WILL. ????
I like that John Young
Lesley-Anne @9.00
self same video I sent to the Electoral commision this morning as well as the chief counting officer, Police Scotland, The Public Life Standards Committee, and Newsnet!
heres the full thing
shaunynews.com/2014/09/19/why-did-1-million-people-not-vote-who-were-registered-video-proof-
Hey guys,
Watch out, there are a few odd posters making absurd comments, and generally trying to ‘divide and conquer’ amongst us, today.
‘JET JOCKEY’ has made EXACTLY the same comment earlier this morning, about YES campaign failures etc..etc… Clearly he has just copied and pasted the same block of text.
Don’t get duped.
Nazi scum causing mayhem in centre of Glasgow. The BBC are reporting it as “rival supporters”.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29287409
And so it continues.
Honestly think you have to start at council level, bolster the support at local level, support SSP where they are strong, support the Greens where they are strong, support the SNP where they are strong, oust the slab lackeys at local level and take it from there.
Apologies John,
Crossed threads, u were responding to Liz and I mistakingly thought u were referring to my post on HRH Betty, Liz!!
the mcCron repot was showed and shared on facebook and Internet they all seen it according to the No campaign it was all lies, yes voters made it up. I can a sure you it was well known no campaign not interested in facts. Very aggressive when you tried to advise them with any fact. They really supported Westminster’s politician’s and stated that they were more honest than Salmond and SNP. As I campaigned there minds were not open to new knowledge.
Other than OO thugs and English students who couldn’t get into Oxbridge there are no Union Jacks flying in Scotland tonight.
The fight goes on and everyone on here needs want keep the faith and support our North of England friends as no Westminster political party cares two fs for them.
Anyone running a book on possible names in the New Years honours list?
Tarian;- the point being was the our representation at Westminster was often irrelevant in the outcome or balance of power anyway. I’m not saying it might not be a bad thing to knock out Labour, good luck, but even if we fill the ranks with SNP (and who knows how it will fare now) I think we could possibly see Westminster refuse to concede a referendum on the basis that it had been decided and was to settle the matter for a generation. It would be hard for the SNP to also stand on a mandate for another referendum, after
Scotland acceded to Westminster sovereignty, it’s hard to see how the last decades have not in someway been lost. We simply don’t know, that’s just my take, but once the dust has settled we’ll realise that we will struggle to get that window of opportunity again.
It’s not for wanton negativity, but it was a perfect alignment of events that are unlikely to be capitalised on if they arise again. The SNP did not fare well under Swinney, and I’m sure Sturgeon is able but I’m not sure there is going to be adequate tactical direction.
Another Holyrood majority? Sure, but you would need to get the SNP or another party with a credible chance to stand on a referendum ticket and we simply don’t know what this will do to support for *anything* at the present time. It doesn’t look like anything will be happening anytime soon, the dust hasn’t even settled yet and it is looking pretty grim. I just can’t see it anytime soon, or anyway of really keeping the ‘dream alive’.
It’s the language of nightmares in all honesty.
Oh look. A;ll these lovely neat piles of ballot papers being removed from a SEALED ballot box. Amazing these ballot papers, must be the magical ones that no one ever see!
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10201496218046165&set=vb.1797702758&type=2&theater
Nice to know that David Cameron and his cohorts have all his NO supporters on a tight rein in Glasgow tonight.
https://twitter.com/RadioClydeNews/status/513052157575430144/photo/1
@Fiona – OK I will wait until someone says how this can be done – I saw a tweet earlier which stated that an age group could be found from your voting card – remember when you get your ballot paper they put a number beside it on a different sheet from your voting card.
There probably is too much anger about today -including from me but I have seen a table of age related votes.
Also out campaigning, at the polling stations there were a definite very large number of No from OAPs but I don’t have a scientific analysis, so I will wind my neck in on that just now.
Calgacus MacAndrews says:
What do we do when we get the TV licensing letter saying your property is under surveillance?
To all of you who are becoming involved in apportioning blame to all those over 55, why not sit down with a pencil and paper and work out what age we were when the Anti-Nazi League, Red Wedge, and Rock Against Racism was taking place. Do the same for the years of the de-industrialisation of Scotland and the rise of Thatcher. Aye, we were once young as well – and as committed to those causes as many of us have been to this one. This is a time to come together not to divide. Leave that to the ones in George Square this evening.
There were older folk who were frightened, there were older folk who were selfish – there were a lot of my people who are elderly who voted Yes – and I am going to get very angry if some of you keep generalising – OK?
Met someone who voted no-worried price of Hay for her horses would rise!!
Hi Quentin honey – we will get there xx loved your mohican.
Stephen McKenzie,
Scottish skier was talking about New Labour, not the RIC or Labour for indy or business for Scotland and so on...
We are indeed a broad church, and Scottish skier has not suggested anything different.
Not sure what your problem is. Maybe re-read his comments.
The Brit Nat rent-a-mob in George Sq was called in to ensure that the YES 45 did not start occupying this focal point.
If, as I think may happen, that civil disobedience and sit-down protests start up, then the Brit Nat attack dogs will be let off the leash.
Things could get nasty.
I am only interested in full independence, no ifs no buts.
All this talk of federalism and more powers is just window dressing to get us as far away from independence as possible.
Who in their right mind would want Defence and Foreign Affairs in Westminster’s hands?
Let us not waste time and get distracted by this scam.
The SNP would be making a huge mistake if they took part in any ‘negotiations’ about ‘more powers’ with the unionist liars.
You also have to take into account the “if your thick as shit vote
no” slogan.
@Fiona
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/7-fascinating-insights-into-why-scotland-voted-against-indep?utm_term=3mjnol4#1frbqcb
Oooh, you are awful, Paula. But I love it – as I hope you remember from the pool party. Hah – let’s start up the Yes Pool Party!
Murray McCallum says
“Anyone running a book on possible names in the New Years honours list?”
Ehmm,
Alex Salmond?
can I do 50/50?
yes Alex Salmond,
final answer.
If as has been indicated Labour and the Lib Dems get a kicking or even wiped out in the next election and we return a majority of SNP MPs would there be a chance of another referendum?
Henry McLeish MSP announcing himself as a reluctant No on a Thursday and not as a Yes on a Monday.
Lest we forget.
tombee
and others regarding ensioners. Don’t worry most of us are well aware that many pensioners supported YES. There are a few strange people on here tonight posting some bizarre things, so best just ignore them.
Certainly the YES campaign did not and does not think all pensioners were NO. The polling data verifies this. 🙂
Scottish Labour – nae class.
Some of the on-line comments from SLabbers following the FM’s resignation are beyond ridiculous,
What a pethetic bunch.
JOhn Nairn once famously said: “Scotland will never be free until the last minister is strangled with the last edition of the Sunday Post”.
That was back in the 1960s or 1970s. The 2014 equivalent might be: “Scotland will never be free until the last member of the Scottish Labour Party is strangled with the last edition of the Daily Record”.
At every council counting house it was the men and women in red rosettes who cheered loudest and helped deliver it for Cameron. They purposefully targeted pensioners and convinced them their pension was at stake. Forget thatcher , not the Tories (for too few to matter) but the cynically corrupt labour party who are the real enemy. Never forget that
john king
I hope Alex goes to the Ryder Cup and is able to enjoy himself. First class politician (and I tend to not like people of that occupation).
Fair play Divide &Rule, you played a blinder.
Now please stop blaming the old, I’m 59and have voted SNP all my life.And pack in the maudlin self-pity.it doesn’t help..Lick your wounds, drown your sorrows, sleep it off then come out figting. TTIP is headedour way. and we’ll need to unite against an even bigger enemy than Westminster.ansa
Ed Miliband won’t be around for much longer to deliver anything because the UKIP/Tory media have now had a practice run against Salmond which they will replicate to destroy Miliband at the UK General Election in May 2015.
Just reading some tweets from people who are gobsmacked at what is happening in George sq – this is exactly what the establishment wants divide and rule.
There are abt 100 nutters there, remember the 1000s from a few days ago.
Scottish Labour you are to blame.
The 2nd last time I wept was when my Son was born. The last time I wept was today when I woke up and thought about was has just happened.
This isn’t going away and it isn’t the end of the road. The next vote will be Yes and it’ll be here sooner than you think. We held our country in our hands for 900 minutes yesterday and we let it slip through our fingers – we won’t make the same mistake again.
45
I am gutted guys, devasted. A few tears, but now I am positive and moving forward.
I’ve usually voted SSP, SNP and the Greens. And pardon my ignorance, but the Lib Dems with my first ever vote at 18 years old (NEVER AGAIN).
Today, I am proud. I am proud of everyone on here. I’m proud of us, the 45% who said yes – we seen through the corruption of the state, media and the establishment.
We need to keep wearing our Yes or a new fancy “We are the 45” badges like the way you would wear a watch, badge or wristband.
I am proud today.
I am 31 years old and today I joined the SNP!
I love you all.
XXXXX
Lol
L Oh Fucking Hell
🙂
Just mentioned to someone about the trouble in George square tonight – there response was “well I blame Alex salmond”
Good to see everybody is alive and kicking….I had to contend with a sobbing 10 yr old this morning who was a committed yesser…hope the site keeps going, and the yes stickers are staying on the car….it’s not over….not by a long way, remember for ‘evil to prevail the good must fail to associate’ well that’s 1.6m associates to start with!
I hope Davidson, Lamont, Rennie, Murphy, Brown, Darling are over the moon with their supporters tonight.
https://vine.co/v/OWPzrhni0Aj
Minger Campbell: “There will always be people who believe in independence. It is a perfectly legitimate position. They won’t go away. But I think most people are pretty well settled with the view that there should not be another referendum for a very long time, if ever.”
There you go, from another grave dodger dictating your future!
When I saw Henry McLeish announce himself as a reluctant No my immediate thought was to wonder what Art Garfunkel is doing these days.
Lesley-Anne 09:00pm:
With regard to the top video of the neatly stacked ballots being removed, a trusted friend that arranges elections for a council down south is confident those are postals (though I am still not removing my tinfoil hat). I can’t speak for the other films.
Never ever been a member of any political party, however, after witnessing the events of the last few weeks, I have this evening joined the Scottish National Party.
I’m not a hoppin’ and a skippin’ today, and probably feeling like most yessers, but this beacon of a website gives me hope. Hope is a great thing for people, and beacons are there to be seen, not to be hidden.
Come again when your strengthened.
Cheers Stuart.
@ Robert Louis
I see where you’re going with divide and conquer and I wouldn’t question it.
What I wrote was something I’ve written about in the past and I know that others, regulars on here, have also written more or less the same.
Some of us were a bit exasperated that the YES folk (e.g. B Jenkins) were not exactly prepared to give back as much as we were getting, they were too soft.
If you thought it was JJ that set off the train of thought, it wasn’t, he just happened to be the next one.
First I don’t think AS would accept any sort of tawdry bobble from Westminster. On Round 2 I just hope that we do not have to resort to taking our INDEPENDENCE through the barrel of a gun.
They had better DELIVER PDQ or else.
Auld Rock
Quentin Quale
i’m a pensioner.
did proportionally more pensioners vote no!
i expect so.
why did they, imo to protect as they saw it their self-interests.
they imo were wrong, how is one going to persuade someone to change their minds.
there are all kinds of demographics that ensure, WM always gets the voters that protect and enhance the se of england, so as to ensure a voter power base.
which is why we have red tories.
that power base is no where near as strong in scotland.
the no camp targeted it.
it is why the indyref was lost imo.
people are understandably trying to make sense of things.
I HEARD ABOOT IT ON THE BBC Citizen Smart.
frazer allan whyte,
Well said.
Giving Goose says:
19 September, 2014 at 6:25 pm
Rev and everyone else.
Why don’t we form a grouping or movement; bona fide, registered as a political party.
We can self fund it.
I’m with you. I started this topic on the tamb and it will explain my thinking better.
http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=974
Did any of you think it was going to be easy? Quentin Quale and Tartan Tory both sport vibrant mohicans – we love diversity, but we do have to work with such vibrant individualists.
Sinky says
“What do we do when we get the TV licensing letter saying your property is under surveillance?”
What?
are they going to sub contract the “watching” to Mossad?
MI5 couldn’t Watch With Mother!
the wooden tops! 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv_WJCv_Xyg
O/T; Sorry for the O/T guys but James Kelly on Scot goes Pop is running a fundraiser to take him up to the next election. If any of you feel like you’re able to at the moment, maybe drop by and pop in a wee something. I think we really need to try and keep independent Scottish media going and especially up to the election we need to make sure that promises are kept. See how you feel anyway. Thanks.
alexicon honey – have you ever been to a wings event? Herding cats does not even begin to describe it. We are the Scots and we will win, whichever variety we are.
Just spent hours today explaining to family in New Zealand and across the world what has been going on. For heavens sake lets not lose the momentum, I know we are all bitterly disappointed but look at what’s been achieved. We need to get under the banner of like minded people and take on each strata of establishment at community council, local authority, Holyrood, and Westminster.
That won’t be difficult but we need to be as sleekit as the opposition and prepare now. My local council is formed by Independents and that’s perhaps the banner we get our like minded folk elected under. flood each election , particularly under proportional representation, with our folk and divide the votes. Our arse of a councillor, ex Tory, got voted in by this tactic so why can’t we formulate that approach , alls fair in love and war.
Watching the LIBDem MP and Tory MSP being congratulated by the prospective Labour Candidate almost made me boak last night in Lochgilphead. Many loyal dearly departed Labour folk must be spinning at speed in their graves at Alexander, Lamentable, Brown and Murphy( and the rest). Power to the people. Alex Salmond is a real statesman as demonstrated today and his dignity surpasses anything we have seen from any of the other parties. we would not have achieved as much if it wasn’t for Alex.
Murray McCallum says:
19 September, 2014 at 9:32 pm
When I saw Henry McLeish announce himself as a reluctant No my immediate thought was to wonder what Art Garfunkel is doing these days.
Murray McCallum says:
19 September, 2014 at 9:32 pm
“When I saw Henry McLeish announce himself as a reluctant No my immediate thought was to wonder what Art Garfunkel is doing these days.”
Very subtle M McC.
No poster here would doubt the Rev is a very talented individual and must be inundated with offers at this moment in time. Yes and the SNP would never have had a sniff at 45 % without his help. But I feel we need Stu more than ever at this point in time. Stu said earlier that there is no cause left to fight. I disagree.
Scotland is wounded at this point in time and needs a rallying point. This referendum was lost plain and simple because of a corrupt, dysfunctional media.
There is a cause left to fight. A cause which is just as important as the referendum itself. Scotland needs a new media! Please Stu, don’t give the corrupt unionists and journalists a cause for celebration by stepping back. Unless broadcasting and media are devolved then Scotland will never be free from this broken, ancient political system.
Heard earlier that the fine upstanding Sir Ian Wood had been tweeting that it was not a great time to invest in those cursed oil supplies of ours, you k now the one that were running out last week.
Upgrade Knighthood for Lardship perhaps, services rendered.
James Caithness,
“What if we started the ”YES Party”.”
I hadn’t read your comment when I made a similar one later on. Sorry, wasn’t trying to steal your idea.
I think a single YES Party for 1,600,000 Yes voters until we get independence makes a lot of sense.
Also it should have just one thing on the agenda – Independence. No other policies whatsoever.
A general election to follow very soon after a Yes vote with Yes disbanded and individual parties presenting their policies on the monarchy, currency, EU, NATO etc in their respective manifestos.
Edit that’s NOW rather than not – sorry still angry
Tongue in cheek auld rock,
tongue in cheek,
we’re all well aware the SNP do not accept baubles. 🙂
Just when I feared that Wingers’ activism, insight and commitment might evaporate following our disappointment, a continuing purpose, a need as just as important or perhaps even more so than before the18th, and a huge response to Stu’s latest contribution has emerged. So what to do?
Is there a breakdown of voters on an age basis?
Thanks for that Paul. 😉
Midgehunter,
Your comments achieve nothing. opinions vary on the YES campaign, but it doesn’t matter, as it is over. I honestly thought they worked it well.
Sitting dredging over ‘oh if only they did this’, or ‘oh if only they had done that’ is a truly pointless exercise. Jet jockey posted the same text this morning and was answered. Not sure of the point in his re-posting exactly the same negative finger pointing diatribe again.
Time to move on.
@Robert Louis 9:16
Robert, I assumed Labour for Indy to be a subset of New Labour – my mistake if this is not the case. However, that aside, recent posts since then are again are targeting “Scottish Labour” in their posts for various ills.
Sorry Robert I hope I don’t have a problem as you have suggested, and I am not trying to cause anyone grief as we are all not in the best of moods just now.
I just want folk to consider before posting that we had Labour folks supporting us all throughout the campaign and that helped get up to 45% and we will need their help again.
Well what do you know!
@AamerAnwar child tax credits to be cut!! Not even 1 day in and they have started screwing us over! #InstitutionalisedScotland
looks like we are going to have instead of £25bn+ of cuts, they will be £37bn+ after next ge.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/19/austerity-george-osborne-ifs-conservative-labour-lib-dem-chancellor
Faltdubh,
Great post. Good to hear the campaign has inspired you. The fight for independence continues.
I feel much better after reading the comments here and posting a few.
Stuart, while you have a well earned and much needed break to decide on your future, could you please get a trusted person to tempararily run this blog?
Otherwise I think many of us will feel very depressed and the momentum will get lost.
Rock dear – no rules, we can behave xx
They voted no for this!?!
Police in Glasgow were struggling to control a mass pro-Union rally after hundreds of demonstrators chanting “Rule Britannia” marched through the city centre in celebration of Scotland rejecting independence.
The tensions began in George Square, where at around 6pm a stand-off developed between a Union Jack-waving crowd holding “No Thanks” banners and supporters of Scottish independence, who have regularly been gathering there in the build up to the vote.
Men, women in children draped in Union Jacks and carrying banners associated with Orange Lodges in Glasgow, said they were in the square to celebrate the “saving of the union”. However the chants, songs and behaviour resembled a football crowd rather than a political march.
The two sides were initially separated by a human cordon of police officers, shouting insults at each other and waving flags. The pro-Union group shouted: “We love Scotland more than you”, “Alex Salmond is a wanker” and “You let your country down”.
At the next GE the 1,600,000 should vote for the non-unionist candidate
what to do?
i suggested that on the previous post citing the example of the fenians in ireland – re-group,adjust to changing circumstances, work out a strategy, and continue.
if you’re interested see my trilogy of posts about the fenian movement Phoenix rising
in any case I hate repeating the irish experience but sometimes I think it is helpful.
See these quotes from an irish patriot in 1922 and tell me if the same cycle is not repeating in Scotland – understandably as ireland then and Scotland now are contending with the same state and status quo.
http://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/the-day-after/
Right that’s it. Had a good greet today, especially when listening to AS.
Anger at this country being handed back to WM on a silver platter will take time to subside and may never be forgotten. Now resigned to use that anger to keep up the fight.
Have just joined the SNP and i’m open to suggestions on how we start building a movement that takes more than 45% with it.
Until then i’m proud to be part of the ’45’.
Stu. You have put so much into this mate and i understand your need of a break to think things over. I would also understand if you decide you can’t continue to head up this site. I have nothing but admiration for all you’ve done.
Lesley-Anne
I suspect that the ballot boxes in that video contain postal votes, signature verified at the PVO & bundled into 50’s. Maybe Gerry, Tartan Tory et al would like to comment.
Remember folks still wear your YES badge with pride.
There’s talk of a new badge for YES voters to identify each other, I think someone mentioned 45.
What about IVY? Short for: I Voted For Independence.
Apparently the violence is escalating in George sq and there is no doubt in my mind the MSM will spin this a ‘losers’ against ‘winners’.
They have been building that narrative since before the vote – herald ‘carnage on the streets’, murphy et al talking up violence.
We will have to remain very calm and desist it in joining in – the Brit establishment want to turn us into NI.
We need to get rid of the Lib-Dems as well as the Labour Party next year.
Art Cormack – would you stand against Charles Kennedy on a Yes platform?
Time to send him to the Lords where he can sup his free champagne.
Unfortunately, it may be difficult to get rid of that buffoon Carmicheal. Anybody know a good Yes candidate from the Northern isles that could knock him out?
The rest of the Lib-Dems are dead meat.
I have been an avid reader of wings for a few months. Posted once before but it never appeared. I
I would like to add my thanks and appreciation to Rev Stu for his tireless dedication in seeking out the truth and exposing the lies throughout this independence campaign.
I was absolutely devastated with the result. My husband and I were on polling station duty in the north of Glasgow in a deprived area. It was humbling to see how many people of all ages had voted yes with pride many voting for the first time in their life.
I wholeheartedly agree that the fight must go on so that their vote has not been in vain. Wings must continue my husband and I would willingly set up a monthly contribution if funding was necessary. Finally I would like to thank all the wingers who contribute.I have been galvanised by your stories links and informative topics and only got through this tear laden day by reading the Rev Stu’s and your uplifting comments. I would like to join the 45% club but don’t know how to do it.
A live stream from George Square
youtu.be/86lrybeUXIg
I think we need a formal meeting to get the 45 thing going. We need to agree our aims and strategy. I have been a member of the SNP for 22 years incidently. We need to return a majority at Westminster. I believe that a majority at Westminster carries the legality to carry out a Referendum and legal at that.
The new Facebook page The 45 has been up for a few hours and already has over 90,000 likes.
https://www.facebook.com/wearethefortyfive?fref=nf
We need this website and all the others to stay active to keep us informed. It was a beacon throughout the campaign.
@ Sinky
They do not put your property under surveillance. I do not have a TV and I do not watch live TV. I get regular harassment from them and this shows they have no sophisticate equipment and no clue as to whether you have a telly. All they know is whether you have a license: which is not the same thing at all.
http://thosebigwords.forumcommunity.net/?t=53978586
Posted that before but it has some info on the subject
There’s no point of calling no voters suckers. Many know there are issues with the UK, but they hoped, stocked by the vow, that Scotland and England could be better together. There is nothing wrong with voting with hope in your heart, after all the yes campaign also told voters to imagine a better future in a different setting.
You’ll just have to wait and see what happens, and in May 2016 the Scots will give their verdict of whether they believe the Vowers have fulfilled the vow. If they haven’t, prepare for another referendum.
As it is, it seems to me that Cameroon is doing his best anyway to break up the UK. Yes, the West Lothian Question needs answering, but having a seperate parliament for 80% of the country is a receipe for divorce
Remember, if we bank on a 1.6m electoral battering ram that we didn’t have before even if on the somewhat dodgy premise that they will all stick together could arguably be met against 2m otherwise minded if we are transferring the result to Scottish politics directly.
Och well no one else has posted it so I will.. RB Cunninghame Grahams quote..
The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls. Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination
I’ve been totally deflated today, still am. I think it’s too early to make plans but I want to get involved politically now. I’ve never been involved in anything in my life but I’ve had it now – I’m too angry, deep down, long time angry.
The Yes movement has been inspirational and I hope that continues.
My head is spinning tonight so I’ll cut it short other than to say this site has done an amazing job deconstructing and exposing the media. I’m truly grateful.
@Big Jock, if you are thinking of doing something seriously, just a suggestion, perhaps a closed group on FB? I say that because a closed group would be better than on here – too many ears. Any cyber nat will tell you how the infiltrators upped the ante on-line running up as well – huge distraction to the task. Just saying, beware, even the brand new 45 FB page has no voters taking the piss out of Salmond on it 🙁
HandandShrimp
45 is a fantastic response.
I very seldom post , … but none of my comments from today have appeared. 🙁
repost of link to age graphic:
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/512890984255205376/photo/1
and “How Scotland voted, and why”
By Lord Ashcroft
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-voted/
Let’s move forward and learn from this
How about these for a 45% shirt
http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/elite-45-henry-hynoski-blue-american-jersey/196301132.html#sb4-4-1|3406111266
@ davidb
Thanks for that
There are 1,200,000 pensioners in Scotland. 73% of them voted no. I think that is 876,000. the no vote was 2,001,926. Much more than half of the no voters were not pensioners, if those figures are correct.
alexicon
The YES stall was churning out lovely ‘I voted YES for Scotland’ badges yesterday. I’ll take mine off before it goes into the washing machine but put it onto my next clean shirt. No plans to stop wearing it this century.
Are that mob still at it in the square? Why the hell have they not been lifted by now, that’s fully four hours. Tarred and feathered and run out this region of ours, please.
Christian Schmidt says
“There is nothing wrong with voting with hope in your heart, after all the yes campaign also told voters to imagine a better future in a different setting.”
Which would be fine Christian if they didnt have form on that,
but we went through empty promises in 1979 and younger people who didnt live through the pain that followed with Thatcher were/are unaware was the most despicable betrayal of a people in modern times!
How can Labour possibly be considered an option to Scottish voters anymore? The Tories are forever a pointless party to even have in Scotland, I don’t know why they bother. The Greens have good for the Yes campaign and are sure to of gained from this campaign.
As for the referendum.
A giant has woken, a real movement has started. There will forever be a burning ember for independence in Scotland. We will rise and come back again.
There may not be another opportunity like this for a generation (however long a generation may be). We must educate our children on this subject and their children to.
We can’t let the next generation be brainwashed by the BBC, media and Westminster. Let them see both sides instead of the one side shown by the media.
We need a strong leader to continue Alex Salmonds good work. Someone with a clear vision and the integrity to take us forward.
For the meantime we must all work together and get on with each other.
The bbc says it was a convincing win for Scotland remaining in the union. No mention of the onslaught, which they led, of propaganda and the campaign of threats, blackmail and scare mongering.
It’s as though it never happened.
Call me Dave Revenge. Could be time for a Scottish Liberation Army.
I agree with James123 death to scottish wee vulnerable labour be afraid very afraid.
A 45 badge is a great idea! Let’s try it.
James Dow says:
Call me Dave Revenge. Could be time for a Scottish Liberation Army.
2 reasons violence will make you lose –
1 – no-one CAN really win when you get to that stage
2 – against the British state you CANT win in a shooting match these days.
Stop being fkng stupid
Any thoughts on how these ‘devolution’ proposals will be manipulated to politically isolate and marginalise Scotland, further minimising our access to capital and revenue from our natural resources?
How do you think Scotland will respond when the unemployed, the sick and the elderly are forced to pay to see a GP?
How do you think Scotland will respond when ToryUKIP push through ‘english’ legislation to dissolve / dilute Scotland’s parliament?
Time to take a step back and think big.
Despite the best efforts of Eck to destroy it the UK has survived, as the majority of Scots wish. There are obvious flaws in the UK’s constitutional structure following Tony Blair’s partial devolution. As a result, Scottish nationalism is not alone in resurgence, the English are up and running too.
No Scot would want a constitutional and financial settlement that depends on ripping off another member of the Union. There needs to be a period of reflection and conversation, in fact a constitutional convention to try and reach a new and equitable constitutional settlement for the Union. Once the constitution has been agreed, a financially equitable settlement becomes easy.
The Rev Stu seems contemptuous of the Lib-Dems these days. But it was Lib-Dem peer Lord David Steel who devised a good draft for the UK constitution in 2005. Steel should be appointed as head of a UK constitutional convention and his 2005 proposals should be adopted as the basis for discussion.
Now that he is resigning from day to day politics, Alex Salmond would be an excellent member of any UK constitutional convention.
There is no disadvantage to Scotland in these suggestions.
Did anyone else hear the question that Gardham put to the FM at the press conference? No wonder I refuse to buy the paper I bought every day for decades. Dignity bypass.
Anybody else noticed the absence of Crash Gordon – that “visionary” of the tabloids? Him of the shit timetable?
Heraldnomore
WELL?
What did he say?
This talk of ‘federalism’ is foolish. It can only work if England is broken up into regions. I cannot believe the English will stand for it. the UKIPers have already called for an English parliament, if Labour tries to go ahead with regionalisation, it will cause an up surge in English nationalism and the Tories/Ukip will sweep the board. It won’t happen!
BTW can anybody tell me what Labour is actually for anymore? It’s a party that serves no purpose and deserves to be voted down to a size that reflects its true significance – zero!
guys – had you won on a vote of 50.01% you would really have struggled with the mandate to do this
quite a few peeps already saying omg I wish I had voted yes
wait till tommorow after the crap that’s going down in GS
wait till next week when we hear England England England soooooooo many more times than anyone has mentioned that Scotland just went through such an emotional journey
wait and ask the question in a wee while – if you could change your vote from no to yes would you
and when you have 75% – 80% ie 45+ the idiots who will rue thier vote you have a mandate
🙂
I don’t know how we win it from here, but I know how we start. https://my.snp.org/join
Other organizations and parties exist. Join one of them.
Bluedog
“No Scot would want a constitutional and financial settlement that depends on ripping off another member of the Union”
What?
Will someone take the dog out he’s starting to really smell!
I was, and am still deeply depressed by the sense of shame and the loss of hope from this defeat. I say ‘shame’, even though I voted Yes, because 55% of Scots proved to be cowards. Having said that, we moved from 30% at the campaign’s start to 45% in the face of the Establishment doing its worst. I’m not going to give up on this. We’ll never be able to erase the shame; that is going to be branded on our consciences for the rest of our lives. But we can perhaps atone for it.
Right now I am about to cancel my Labour Party membership and am trying to decide whether to join the Scottish Greens or the SNP (the SSP are an option too, but perhaps a bit far out there for me). We need to make people see how the older voters’ cowardice has screwed us all over. We may not get an opportunity as good as the one we just had, but we may yet get another one nonetheless, and those elderly No voters don’t live forever.
Scottish pensioner’s Those about to die piss on you. Fuck Scotland, fuck you young people, I’m all right that’s all that matters. And soon when I’m in my grave you can come and piss on me if it makes you feel better, for it won’t matter to me, as Scotland didn’t in life
Take the weekend off my dears – relax with your families, many of you will have time that needs to be caught up with. The full might of the UK has been rained down upon you, we have very few casualties xxx
Please keep this site going as a focal point for the YES campaign. We will not go away.
The SNP should refuse to put up candidates in next year’s Westminster elections. Instead, YES candidates should stand with the aim of wiping out Labour and campaigning for another referendum.
Roger
I’ve said for years that the english would vote for their own independence before we got around to it.
Maybe they’re just waiting for the oil to run out …
Bluedoggy poops – sorry love didn’t notice you there – are you all right honey? Oh dear same old stuff never mind, do come and make yourself comfortable (titter).
The outcome of all this will be a perpetual tory government for England, God help the english working class, the sick and disabled, God help them….
John King
Just let me have one kick at him before you put him out will you 😉
Paula Rose: we have very few casualties
I think you need a dose of weed killer.
Blueduggy dear – you are quite right, sorry I was a bit dismissive earlier – habitual.
If I still lived in Scotland I would completely shun all no voters as betrayers off myself and land, and I mean everybody, family, former friend’s, workmates, associates.
And if you think these are idle words to impress, I have not spoken to my only sister for twenty years due to a family issue.
Jamie @ 10.42 says, ‘…and those elderly No voters don’t live forever.’
Correct, but they will be replaced by more elderly voters who think exactly the same way. Given the nature of Scottish demographics, which is a birthrate below replacement, the population has a built-in ageing bias.
It follows that the largest demographic cohort will remain the aged and they will continue to vote conservatively for the Union.
Explain yourself Grouse Beater.
labour fcuked by tories–better together
I would like to point out that the ‘elderly’ who are being blamed for the defeat are the generation that marched to ban the bomb. Who marched in support of the miners, and marched against Margaret Thatchers cuts. Not all of them were frightened and crushed by the lies of Gordon Brown and the media. How can we create an independent scottish tv station… I imagine it would take a vast amount of cash, but I’m sure we have the talent to run it.
I am one of the 45% We need to push this.
bluedog – you are an advocate for the union, am I right?
Absolutely heartbroken for Scotland right now and have been all day. I agree with Wingman. We need to keep and cherish the 1.6million who had the strength and mobilise a successional movement. This isn’t over by a long shot. I’m ready to sign up now and will wait till the dust settles, but like many others I’m moving forward with my eyes open. That’s thanks to the amazing positive feeling of the campaign and I thought Alex and Nicola as well as all the others leading Yes were so positive and inspirational and we owe it to their efforts. I’m not ready to lower my Yes badged Saltire and now never will thanks to this awakening. Keep the Yes flag flying people. Our day will come!
Thx, Paula Rose.
Hi guys, i have only put my thoughts across a couple of times here, i come from the southside of Glasgow, i am 54 years old i am not a politician nor a religious person, i have always thought that my country should be independent, i never would have thought that my people of Scotland would let me down so much, as i feel that they have, i understand the me, me, me, attitude as i have been there in my work, drinking establishment, and so called friends, over this last 6 months i have found my goal, it has been an awakening, there is so much more out there, this site and others have got me to where i am now, i had a heart attack last year i am not worried it happens, it was yesterday that really got me, i went to my polling station and voted, talked to the yes guys, and the no guy, outside, was asked by the YES guys if i wanted to help out i did, yes Pollock, i came from the gorbals, 25 years previously, 1 chapped doors talked to people in street, they were my people, i was theirs, we all agreed on one thing we needed change we had to look after each other, in the afternoon my friend who i met that day, went to a private housing AREA, what a shock, yes you got it me,me.me, is this what my Glasgow has come to, 1 mile apart, i am glad my city got it right in the vote but i am a bit dissapointed it was not more, today my city was independent, i know it was not, but it got me through the day and gave me faith, let us help the young who come after us, by the way i have not died, i am inspired.
More than 1000 new members joined the SNP today. Hopefully Greens are showing a similar surge. Join something!
For those of you who intend to protest against the BBC license fee, there are some things to be aware of
1. The BBC have no right to enter your house, even if they hear a TV on. Just tell them it’s a video you are watching.
2. Television which is not live does not require a license – ie, catchup TV, videos, DVDs, do not require a license.
3. Call them up and say you’ve switched over to a Black and White set. It’s 100 quid cheaper and they are quite happy just to take the money.
Remember that they have no right to step over your doorway!
Stand up, fight back.
Paula Rose @ 10.55, yes.
Well. I spent the evening phoning friends and family.
Both parents have seen it before and will fight on. They are in their early seventies and both have stood for the SNP.
Sis and BIL are both upbeat now as is BF.
We all agree that the vow and euro referendum 2017 is the crunch time for the union. Until then we have to press them. Support yes candidates in your constituency. SNP, Labour for independence, RIc, whatever.Keep the momentum in the new independence council areas. Keep the cause alive in the public sphere and remind no voters they have been conned.
We all need a wee break and then back to work.
At least I’ll save a few bob on papers now, from here on in it’s the Sunday Herald and the Racing & Football Outlook for my gambling habit, apart from that sweet f… all papers will I be purchasing!!
Mariaskid – its us older folk who are here to talk our children – I know of many isolated elderly folk who wish their children could help them – but they are in another country.
@Valerie, I agree it has to be closed – I think there has been an increase in comments that are not helpful and perhaps we should try to organise a meet so we can get to know each other better.
James Dow a voice from the diaspora
I know what you mean James,
I haven’t spoken to my wife since we got married,
the last words I was able to get in were “I do” never been able to get a word in edgeways since.
Sorry James couldnt resist it, I didnt mean to make light of your personal concerns.
Bluedog – can you explain to me why people should not run their own affairs?
Bluedog says
“Paula Rose @ 10.55, yes.”
What rthe hell was the question?
WALKIES?
ive set up a website and im only 13
its not done but ive published it:
http://jamiemont1.wix.com/the-real-thoughts
+dont take wingsoverscotland down and thx stu
“can you explain to me why people should not run their own affairs?”
I can answer that Paula-Rose
Us guys cant keep our bloody mouths shut! 🙂
Paula Rose/john king
He’ll be going to join his friends in George Square shortly.
If Westminster ever gets around to offering Scotland some tacky extra power, it will be equal to anything they offer a region of England, North Sea oil permanently ringfenced, of course.
Heres some of our naw voter union flag hinger owns on show the night in Glasgow .Disgusting scenes going on tonight.
Surprise surprise nae media coverage on it.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/GeorgeSquare?src=hash
Have just re read Stu’s post and correct an earlier statement.
We haven’t handed ourselves back on a silver platter.
We’ve given ourselves hog tied and ready to be spit roasted.
Too stupid indeed.
Paula rose says
“bluedog – you are an advocate for the union, am I right?”
What the hell is it with you and strays, I found a bloody Irish wolfhound in my bed last night, kept hogging all the covers as well 🙁
Give it until after the party conferences and then I think all the parties that were part of the GREATEST coalition of political parties in Scottish history should hold a convention, or whatever it is you call these things, behind closed doors, so NONE of the media can get an inkling about what is going on. At this convention they should draw up a series of plans with a view to wiping out Labour and if possible the Tories and Lib Dems.
Scotland has been destroyed by the unionist parties and they are no longer welcome in Scotland. Scotland deserves a new beginning and a convention of YES parties is, in my view, the way to go. Most of these parties have stood shoulder to shoulder over the recent months so they know what each wants. We could call it the YES convention. Whatever it is we need to keep all of our YES parties together so that we, the 45’s can drive the noxious unionist parties from Scotland!
I would also like to add, to those who are inclined to stereotype those over pension age: they are a big group: that is because they are not group at all in the sense that they range from 65 to 100 (or thereabouts) The rest of the population is divided into smaller age ranges, usually about 10 years. Do you honestly think that people aged 65 have more in common with people aged 85, than people aged 30 have with those aged 50? If you don’t then why split the groups that way. If you do then why do you?
I watched with horror yesterday as the living dead slithered into the polling stations in Grangemouth to vote no because Labour tellt them to and I watched in horror as the union flag waving Brit Nazis caused mayhem in Glasgow today….but I am still consumed with pride at the 1,500,000+ plus of my fellow citizens who voted for change, hope, optimism and fairness.
I will continue to wear my YES badge just as a wee reminder that we are not dead, we are not beaten, we are not going away! We must find a way to harness this collective energy and It might mean a break from traditional party politics which tend to divide and dissipate. How about a YES PARTY?
Ron McLean says
“He’ll be going to join his friends in George Square shortly.”
That’ll make him a Bluenosedog then? 🙂
Where can I get my “45” badge?
Let’s get it done:-)
This campaign has been led by us oldies – without us it wouldn’t have gained traction.
oh hell
I.S.P. – Independent Scotland Party?
Just heard on twitter – don’t know if it’s true that a OO walk is being held in Glasgow tomorrow.
This is serious, this is our punishment for holding indy ref.
I would advise all Yessers to keep well away.
Criag Macinnes says
“I watched with horror yesterday as the living dead slithered into the polling stations”
What?
like this you mean?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gUKvmOEGCU
I am very proud to have been in the 45, but that is yesterday’s news.
Moving forward, its obvious to me that the NO vote was mostly down to self interest – people worried about their own income and nest eggs. While its easy to avoid listening to activists, its far harder to not let what your boss is telling you have an effect on your decisions. People working in the oil, finance and public sector were all being bombarded day in and day out with bad news, all verified by clever people in London and elsewhere- so it must be true!
While people like having a message given to them to make their hearts flutter, the next referendum should focus on the lowest common denominator, the weekly Scottish pay packet.
The opportunity for this to happen is many years away, but its never to early to work out the winning message. That should be the goal of #the45
Two days before the vote, I asked a Naw if they believed countries should run their own affairs and control their own resources. She replied yes, but not Scotland.
Thank you BBC and Labour. You helped the City of London destroy democracy in Scotland. I wonder how many will meet a premature end because of your dishonesty to the people of Scotland. Fascists.
I,ve only posted once today,but Im glad to see so many Wingers remaining positive.
I have just joined the Scottish Green Party, never joined a political party in my life.
I also made an appointment to change my bank account to Airdrie Savings. While speaking to person on the phone, very quickly became chatty, said I wanted appt. for next Friday, the person seemed relieved as they are full all next week with new customers joining the bank.
I think Robin McAlpine’s piece is uplifting at this time:
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/19/wipe-your-eyes-on-your-feet/
If I was in any way skilled enough to offer something I would, but I’m sure lots of people on here are 🙂
Seen a lot today about postal votes/rigging and so on. Not sure it would make a big difference here but, got to be honest, I’d like to see postal voting limited to those who simply cannot get to the station. There is no reason for people to get a postal vote because they cannot be bothered going after a working day (yet have 5 hours to go and vote after work finishes). It helps skulduggery and is no use to anyone. Either you’re committed to voting and will get down the polling station, or not. As I say, this excepts completely folk who cannot make it because they are physically unable – wholly different.
Hiya Ronnie, keeping my chin up but Im
pissed.
And not in a bad way! 🙂
Fiona @ 11:10 I guess because polling companies do? Time for group 65-84 and 85+?
TV license is now cancelled, Virgin on tomorrow’s list to drop the TV package.
For those of you who are thinking about dropping Virgin completely, they are no longer owned by Branson. They were sold to a US cable company last year and that fact alone is the only thing that has stopped me cancelling the lot.
As a techie, I’d always choose cable over DSL so I’m spared that choice as a small mercy.
I didn’t before but I am welling up seeing Glasgow burn. 🙁
Im away before that Paula finds some hedgehogs who need a bed,
btw why dont they find their own hedge?
Anyway, I’m determined to stay a glass half full guy so here:
1). Opinion polls have been proven to be amazingly reliable, which means that in two years time when they consistently show Independence at 75%, the pressure will be on, and it won’t be a long sustained 2.7 years coming from behind, it will be a short sharp 6 months with little need for campaigning.
2). The overwhelming majority for Independence won’t be us 45%, it will be half or more of the 55% who stuck their necks out and picked the future for the rest of us.
3). It is up to the 55% and the three Scottish Unionist parties to explain why more powers didn’t come, why the block grant was continually cut, why prescription charges will be introdcued, student tuition will cost £9,000 per head, the ScottsiH NHS is being provatised and owned by the USA.
4). The scurrilous media in Scotland will have to explain why they stood behind the Unionists almost 100%, how and why they were wrong, and how they are going to tell the truth and support Independence.
5). I will never sing Flower of Scotland again, and will look with disgust at any NO voter who does “be a nation again”.
3 times Ive posted whatshave we a attack of the DDOS
Let’s just get on with this guys. Keep pushing. Just joined the SNP.
Over 100,000 likes in about 16 hours. The peoples movement is bigger than any party. We will win!
https://www.facebook.com/wearethefortyfive
Have a well-earned rest, but come back with this site please and continue disseminating information that we will never obtain from mainstream media – this site has been invaluable!
The worst, most gut wrenching, stomach churning aspect of this is that I will wake up tomorrow morning and the result will still be the same. And the next day. And the next day. And the day after that. Every day for the rest of my life. This was our one chance and it’s gone forever, Westminster will never allow us a second shot. The boat has sailed and we’re not on it. Tonight I feel like I’ve been sentenced to 500 years in prison with no chance of parole. It’s agonising.
Why so much abuse for older people? This was
a 2k poll commissioned by Ashcroft for goodness sake poss skewed by people retiring here from other parts of UK? Some of the comments are offensive.
Also 18-24 close.Again poss skewed by students from outside Scotland and they, presumably have the advantage of being internet savvy. Don`t pick on one group.
Oh aye, and 59 SNP MPs in Westminster after the 2015 General Elections. I am not a member of the SNP, never have been, never will be. I will vote SNP in 2015.
Question (and not a joke)….with all the talk of joining parties, I find the Greens nearest to my views (and voted for them in May, as well as on list for Holyrood last time). But, though I am not saying I don’t care about it, I am not sure my passion on ‘the environment’ matches theirs. I guess this question must have applied to people looking to vote for SNP or join once upon a time (when they were single issue, but branching out)….am I the sort of person the Greens would want as a member? I guess I join the SNP if not, though I feel closer to Greens on most other things, even if environment is their biggest issue.
@wingman 2020 –
http://www.old.tpuc.org/stoppayingtvlicencefees
http://www.facebook.com/StopTVLicence
http://www.tv-licensing.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/withdrawing-implied-rights-of-access.html
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/removal_of_implied_right_of_acce
http://www.downloads.bbc.co.uk/foi/classes/disclosure_logs/rfi20111356_tvl_withdrawal_enforcement_process.pdf
http://www.cigpapers.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/tv-license-resistance-not-paying-discounts-refunds/
http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/index.php?topic=6134.0
http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=133710
I hope that good old Gordon Brown and his mates are thoroughly enjoying all the unionist entertainment that has been laid on for them by the Knuckle Draggers Quartet!
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152645492580901
https://twitter.com/mrpger/status/513070048081354752
The ultimate response of the proud Scot but.
Burning the Saltire on the Cenetaph in George Square.
This Is not the end – 45.
@ Johnny
By rights it should be groups 65-74:75-84: 85-94:95-104.
That polling companies do it does not make it right. People do not suddenly become interchangeable when they retire. But they stop counting when they are not economically active, apparently. It is quite shameful “ageism” really
Ron and the rest of you doubters – this is a series of encounters, Wings is not a one-off – we will win over the long term.
Ron, we are only beaten if we let them beat us. Up and at em!
Valerie at 10:38
He had to give up a book selling programme to come to the aid of Flipper and Wee Doogie. He has presumably gone back on the sales pitch or maybe he has remembered we pay him to represent his constituents in Kirkcaldy and has gone back to his real job.
James Dow at 10:44
I’m 66 and worked my arse off to deliver a YES vote in Glasgow! One of the stars of YesKelvin, a pal of mine, is nearly 68 and turned out nearly every day over the past 2 months, sometimes doing a double shift, and several others were of a similar age. I posted earlier that I was ashamed that many of my generation had voted NO but they were the ones with money and no conscience about those of poorer status and our young folk. So no generalisations please.
Johnny – we will have a wee discussion about such things soon xx
LA
Gordon Brown and his mates are to busy rubbing their hands in delight at managing to hoodwink the Scottish people again and looking forward to their reward to notice what’s going on in Glasgow.
Oh look folks some unionists having a quiet night in … in Glasgow that is!
https://twitter.com/misscheeky666/status/513091277609795584/photo/1
Lesley-Anne
i know, they are trying to blame yessers as well.
the other day i was going to say, a few hours feels like a week atm.
today i mentioned that i think the SNP should call an election now, in protest of camerons backtracking over devo VOW.
the person i said to was not bet pleased with me.
i am now convinced that they should.
lol
I see the Unionists are doing a good job of convincing people about that next referendum.
Cheers lads!
The thing you people are doing joining the snp etc well done however you have missed what is going against us is the London media.
We do not own any tv stations of our own [ie Scotland] until then we will be reported as being some sort of nasty nationalist movement [Which we all know is bulls**t]
We can do bugger all to counter that, Until we can set up some sort of Scottish broadcasting tv station we are restricted to wings ,Bella etc etc .
“TTIP is headedour way. and we’ll need to unite against an even bigger enemy than Westminster”
Westminster IS the enemy where TTIP is concerned, FFS.
Paula Rose @ 11.01 asks, ‘…can you explain to me why people should not run their own affairs?’
They can, Scotland has a devolved parliament.
If you analyse the SNP position before the vote, it was predicated on continued dependence on the UK in so many areas:
1) keep the British monarch
2) keep the British currency
3) keep British air traffic control
4) allow British forces to patrol the Scottish EEZ
5) co-locate Scottish consular and embassy staff in British premises
6) get the UK to help Scotland join Nato
7) expect the UK to support Scottish membership of the EU.
All dependent on the UK. The final position of the SNP was ‘Gie us a favour, mon’. Fail.
Now for the real inconsistencies:
a) Repudiate Scotland’s share of the UK national debt, meaning 8%.
But:
b) keep Scotland’s share of the UK’s oil, meaning 92%
c) take a share of the Bank of England so Scotland is involved in setting monetary policy in the Sterling area, meaning 8%.
Even without a calculator you can see where this doesn’t add up. There was never any chance that the UK would agree to splits along those lines. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, and repudiation of debt is typically a casus belli, despite what the academic genius Sir James Mirrlees says. He may be a Nobel prize winning economist but he failed diplomatic negotiation 101 with that blooper.
Anyway, if the SNP’s proposals were so dependent on the Union, it doesn’t make sense to leave the Union, does it? Within the Union, Scots have a say. Outside, Scots are the enemy; bad idea.
Sometimes its smart to be practical.
Now its smart to recognise that it takes a 10% swing to reverse the voting pattern and that won’t happen overnight. If anything, the positions will entrench.
In addition, if there is another vote, the Borders, D&G and various islands may simply secede from Scotland and stay with the UK. If Shetland and Orkney leave Scotland, there goes the oil.
Time will tell.
We the 45 should intend to return 59 SNP MSPs to Westminster next year and Yes parties in 2016. We can do it.
Alex Salmond passed the baton onto the Guardians of Scotland today in his resignation speech, we the grassroots activists. With turnouts much lower than the referendum we can do it all over Scotland.
I wonder if a campaign to move the Scottish Parliament to Glasgow or Dundee is fee-sable in light of the Edinburgh result since they made it clear they don’t want to be a capital
Lesley-Anne
dreadful scenes.
it’s good to know UKOK.
I cannot see that there is anything we can do about TTIP now: nor the GPA. Westminster is certainly leading the neoliberal charge along with the US: but the problem is wider even than that and Europe is complicit with the WTO and the other captured international institutions
A sad result yesterday that said it need not be over. I noticed on HM Government e-petition page already there are calls for a Recount Scotland Independence votes currently running about 9,184 signatures. caused by the counting room pictures.
During the campaign, many questions came to light, each deserving answers. Perhaps among the 1.6 million votes in Scotland the 100,000 signatures needed could be attained. It could be a cost free means of raising topics like Trident, NHS protection or whatever a means, as FM says keeping Westminster feet to the fire when coordinated.
http://www.epetitions.direct.gov.uk
IcySpark
i think that is a brilliant idea, we certainly have a lot of support, talent @ passion/momentum.
This from the Guardian:
As the evening wore on, and the yes supporters dispersed, more loyalists converged on the square, many of them draped in union flags. A number were teenagers, and clearly drunk. At one point a section of the crowd broke through police lines and marched up the central shopping area of Buchanan Street, chanting the words to Rule Britannia. Some shouted loyalist slogans and racist abuse, and appeared to make Nazi salutes.
Extreme British nationalists going apeshit after there was a No vote…Who are the blood and soil nationalists now Darling?
The dream will NEVER die
Bluedog honey – I am so worried about your education, you wee cherub, I’ve had to go back and forth a few times just to check your comment. Eek honey – this is wings, we can’t even be bothered, go and lie down content in the knowledge that you have let the despoilers of the planet rule – You stupid idiot.
Can I just remind everyone of the business who spoke against independence? Here’s a wee list I dragged together, there may be more I haven’t found.
Generally I don’t go for sour grapes, but they all played a part. F**k em.
John Lewis
BP
Star Equestrian and Farm Camp Limited
WorldPay
Bon Accord Glass Ltd.
ASCO Group Limited
Global Group and 2 Sisters Food Group
Tomatin Distillery Ltd.
Birlinn Limited
Glenkeir Whiskies Limited
Baxters Food Group
JBD Tritec Limited
Babcock International Group Plc
The Co-operative Bank
Hymans Robertson LLP
Wester Ross Fisheries Ltd.
Amity Fish Company Ltd.
Hair Kapers Ltd.
James Walker (Leith) Ltd.
Blue Machinery (Scotland) Ltd.
Scotlog Sales Ltd.
Thales UK
Aggreko plc
The Weir Group PLC
Edrington
Malcolm Ogilvie & Co. Ltd.
Dalziel Ltd.
J&J Denholm Ltd.
Caithness Potatoes Ltd.
Thomas Hancock & Co.
CR Smith
Keith Elgin Motor Engineers
BlueSky Experiences
The Last Drop Distillers Ltd.
Adelphi Distillery
Scottish Amicable Investment Management Ltd.
TFC Cable Assemblies Ltd.
HSBC Holdings plc
Luvians
John Gillespie Hairdressing
William Grant & Sons Distillers Ltd.
BG Group plc
Artemis Investment Management
Matthew Algie Ltd.
M8 Group Ltd.
Daysoft Limited
Hartmann Media Ltd.
The Harvie Consultancy Ltd
City Refrigeration Holdings (UK) Ltd.
The Scotch Whisky Association
Browns Food Group
Glencast Ltd.
IndigoVision
Lamond and Murray Ltd.
University of St Andrews
British Polythene Industries PLC
Oakenash Group Limited
Lithgows Ltd.
BHP Billiton Plc
Harris Tweed Hebrides
Hebridean Seaweed Company
White House Products Ltd.
Iomart Group plc
The Broadcasting Business
Dundas Partners LLP
Endura Ltd.
NPL Group
G1 Group
Weldex (International) Offshore Ltd.
Phoenix Car Company
British Polythene Industries PLC
Hillhouse Quarry Group Limited
McCurrach Investments
HBJ Gateley
Landcatch Natural Selection Ltd.
Charles Michies Pharmacy
Mactaggart & Mickel Group
Balmoral Group Holdings Ltd.
M Computer Technologies
A.T. Mays
Morris and Spottiswood Ltd.
Wm. Morrison Coachworks
Murgitroyd and Company Limited
John Menzies plc
Nicolson Maps Ltd.
Maven Capital Partners UK LLP
Devro plc
London and Scottish International Ltd.
ICG-Longbow Senior Debt Limited
CCL Property Ltd.
MacTaggart Scott & Co. Ltd.
Affordable Art Fair
Cornelian Asset Managers
Score Group plc
Ian Macleod Distillers Ltd.
Dawnfresh Seafoods Ltd.
Alligin Properties Ltd.
Orion Group
Buccleuch
FiFe Fabrications Limited
The Lindores Distillery Company Ltd.
Inver House Distillers Ltd.
McDonald Engineers
Scottish and Newcastle plc and
The Miller Group
The Town House Collection
F&C Private Equity Trust plc
Glycologic Limited
Miller Hendry solicitors
Cairn Energy PLC
Caledonian Industries Ltd.
Burn Stewart Distillers Ltd.
Thorpe Molloy Recruitment Ltd.
Castle Precision Engineering Ltd.
A. B. Tunnock CBE
Washington Consulting
Simmons & Company International Limited
Milne Management Limited
Edinburgh University Press
I was going to list newspapers/TV, but basically ALL OF THEM!
Well done those unionists in George square. They have managed to bring all the unionists into one bag.
nawbags
shitebags
Scumbags
Keep up the good work of convincing the rest of the fearties that they have put the x in the wrong box.
Three of the four most deprived areas in Scotland voted YES. It is to Scotland’s eternal shame that the more affluent turned their backs on the poor. I am finding it very hard to forgive that blatant self interest. So much for the Common Weal.
Many of those who voted NO call themselves Christians. But they walked on the other side and didn’t care.
My only comfort is they will never see the Kingdom of God
The 45 Movement for a broad church umbrella , SNP for the ballot box. Just joined my first political party 48 years old 🙂
Ah well, sold another pup then NO folks. Chance to have all the control over our affairs and blown away with fear, bigotry (see George Square today to prove that)big business etc etc. Typical Triumphantism today, probably have an Annual walk on the 19th to commemorate beating the yes people now. Labour people signing up with right wing fascist groups, Tories, Media Moguls, Big Business etc etc. A parcel of rogues part 2. Now we find that the poor sods who changed because of the PLEDGE in The Record etc, have been duped. If only 6 out of each hundred didn’t vote no after reading and listening to these lies and voted yes instead Scotland would be free today by a majotrity. Ed milliband reneging already. Well done the three English Leaders, the Daily Record and Gordon Brown for conning a people out of their Country. In the plains of America you would have been selling firewater to the Indians or snake oil to the public. A parcel of rogues right enough you should hang your heads in shame. I have voted Labour for 30 years and will never do that again. I should have known this of course, when you see them throughout the country in coalition with Tories running Councils, shame.
Bluedog
You don’t half talk pish. Much more than half, actually.
I’ll respond in full tomorrow. Suffice to say you try to sound smart but fail to do so.
Later
I’m now embarrassed to be Scottish
I think I might get me a badge with, “YES” and under it, “I’ll be Back”.
Bluedog. You are utterly ignorant. If Shetland and Orkney were to have the instruments to secede, under international law, they would only be entitled to the waters extending to 12 miles. The oil is beyond that. Now do trot along.
@muttley79
That is a long list! 🙁
Can you post link(s) so that we can see what it was each one did ?
Any word on the number of arrests in and around George Square?
Any statement from Police Scotland?
Paula Rose @ 11.57 says, ‘…you have let the despoilers of the planet rule – You stupid idiot.
Okay, so P R is out and proud as a Green but without the capacity to develop a contrary argument, apparently preferring abuse to reasoned rebuttal.
Time to curl up in my basket for a while.
George Sq looks like a nightmare. They will have to cancel OO marches for safety reasons.
Well done all you Slab troughers.
oops. sorry @flux_capacitor
copy&pasted the wrong name there.
The question was concerning the list of company names.
Many might be happier to consider boycotting if they could evaluate the extent of the ‘offences’ for themselves.
@ fireproofjim,
I DON’T KNOW IF THERE IS A BREAK DOWN OF VOTING BY AGE, BUT IF ANY BODY TAKES MY AGED APPEARANCE TO INDICATE MY VOTING TENDENCY IN THIS REFERENDUM TO BE OF THE “NO” VOTING FRATERNITY, AND LIBELS THIS UPON ME, I WOULD GIVE HIM MY BEST PADDINGTON BEAR STARE AND TELL HIM/HER TO BEHAVE. WELL, OK, TO FUCK OFF.
I’m really on a very low tonight. I hope we continue to stick together and that Mr Campbell will continue with this medium.
We really do need someone of his talent and resourcefulness to continue with the fight. He must be exhausted and in need of rest and reflection, but his talent is essential if we are to carry on.
Is it not possible to create a newspaper to support what is the view of 45% of the Scottish electorate?. Surely with that number of subscribers it would be a viable proposition.
As an “old timer” I got involved late on with this texting m’larky, but I’m doing my best to keep up. To tell the truth I am consumed with this yes campaign and want to continue to fight on.
The guardian are crying crocodile tears – they colluded in this as well.
I will never go near them again, either print or on-line.
BTW I think the George Sq riot has been orchestrated from the top to discredit us.
I didn’t see that coming cos I thought it would happen before and not after indy ref.
“Fooled you twice”
To my despair 🙁
An elderly lady I know – voted NO – because her friend at their (twice weekly) visit to the Bingo told her that if we become ‘independent’ she could not take part in the ‘national’ game!
🙁
I guess it is correct that we are the laughing stock of the world 🙁
Oh look folks, Gordon Brown CAN tell the TRUTH!
https://twitter.com/plyons45/status/513040535440097280/photo/1
Jeez flux_capacitor, when you said you had compiled a WEE list you weren’t joking were you? 😛
@robert peffers
I just have my wee blue yes pin and my silver wings pin.
I will wear them proudly forever.
Hands up all those porud unionists on here tonight … just a minute … good not one unionist. Thank FUCK! Here is the latest tales of woe from George Square tonight folks!
https://twitter.com/potbellyman123/status/513092680335646720/photo/1
https://twitter.com/Jameeyy/status/513105706590158849/photo/1
Unlikely my post will be seen in this flood of anger but I will try pass on my views.
You are angry, furious even and all want to blame someone, anything for this debacle. In the cold light of day WHO is really to fault? What lessons must be learnt to avoid a Quebec repeat?
1. Your fellow Scot’s voters are not your enemy, cowards, I even saw some of you post folk to be killed, etc. Alienating, physically and verbally attacking any Scot as you know will not win the popular vote. They will dig their heels in harder. We need them much as you hate the thought.
2. Why wasn’t the ageing voters targeted harder to convince their pensions were safe and under our control already? It is no secret that our pop is living longer. This was a huge error. When you are old and trying to eke a life on a meagre pension and some Tory says you will lose it if you say Yes of bloody course they will look after themselves. They already have to choose food or heat in winter so be careful slagging off our elderly.
3. Trotsky method- Why in the hell did the Yes leadership not be more open and admit our weak areas in the plan instead of avoiding those hard, uncomfortable questions. A lot of the No voters I spoke to say that and that alone was why they said No. Screaming yes in their faces mean nothing, they wanted hard facts, truthes. Trotsky always demanded unswerving loyalty to his cause but never ask HOW things would be done or ‘else.’
4. 16 year old voters…if they had kept the legal age at 18 guess how close it would have been then? Huge error again, yes in the 70s that gamble would have worked but today’s child is far more linked to the media scare train. How many were forced by parents to vote same as them?
In summary it was not YOUR fault the 45, I don’t blame the 55% who used their right to vote as they see fit, I don’t blame Salmond but the real people to be angry at was their advisors. This campaign was long enough to target and reassure the right people. Next time it must be done right!
It is not the 45 who need convincing after all. Be safe fellow patriots.
Don’t be so hard on them Stu, forgive at least those who barely “know what they do”, conditioned as we are by centuries of imperial rule.
The Bastards were always going to draw back on vague vows, but you already know this. Anyhoo, thanks for another thread. I thought my Referendum Story was done, but with Eck going it wouldn’t be fair on the PhD students in the years to come. 🙂
So, in an open letter which will never find it’s target, from a cybernat nobody. Just one of the 45.
Thank you Eck.
It is beyond question that you have left the cause, the fight for civic nationalism, freedom, in a far better position than you found it in, in your time as it’s leader. Beyond doubt. From no hoper’s, to within touching distance.
Yes, wouldn’t even have been born without your gradualist approach, it was conceived in an atmosphere of competent, progressive government, and for me your master stroke was letting the young have their say.
Devolution is only a one way street to independence, if you engage the next generation in political discourse. You deserve the last laugh, and I sincerely hope you live long enough to have it. Were both good for another decade or so, at least I hope, & Nicola will manage the final push magnificently.
You’ll transform in the establishment MSM into being likened to the wizard of oz, far nicer than being compared to genocidal despot’s, and the clock will tick on.
The mandate came too soon.
And, if it takes longer than the time some of us have left, I would like to think that my grand kids generation would take up eating curry, on your birthday 😉
Defo. (still)
flux_capacitor
Oh the irony, or something like that.
Birlinn Limited is an independent publishing house based in Edinburgh, Scotland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birlinn_Limited
@flux_capacitor
Asda?
I think we’ve all maybe got a bit ahead of ourselves. What if we’re only really at Stage 3 of the Gandhi quote?
I definitely thought Police Scotland were a bit slow off the mark Lesley-Anne, with regards to their warning to HMG/MSM/No Better Together Thanks, not to stir civil unrest. ;(
I think you are right Cameron. The police seem to have been caught out by the sudden arrival of the unionists tonight.
@Lesley-Anne
That first tweet appears to be Croydon from the last riots in England. Careful what we post here, somebody is stirring the porridge.
https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2983
cooncil cleanup George square live (20 second)webcam
cannot confirm twitter link stories above stabbings etc
but did see earlier tiny glimpses of bnpnazis on stv and bbc – peace
http://mobile.news.com.au/world/europe/riots-in-glasgow-after-scottish-referendum-on-independence/story-fnh81p7g-1227064881509
Tried to post a link as my first post but it’s been sent to mods , there was a riot in George sq tonight. Thought it would be of interest on here. Unionist scumbags.
I ama 73yr old yesser who voted for my g/kids /9 gg/kids and have asked the bigman for an extension so i get yhe next vote
@Thepnr No need to stir the porridge ,Theres plenty of videos out there ,What the unionists done in Glasgow tonight ,You have a tool there called the internet have a search.
WE ARE a lot of people, let’s not just go away,
tears have been shed today (ahem)
I remember feeling gutted (we actually never said that then….we just had no voice and no outlets) in 1979 when I was 12
Alex Salmond FM is the FINEST we have seen in our time, I know it’s not all about him BUT IF WE WERE able to bestow honours on some of the Scots that mean something to US then he would be “up there”
I have voted all over the shop for the last 30 years…..Ron Brown’s Battle bus ..anyone?
Fuck I even voted LibDum cos I went to school with Charlie Kennedy and used to see him doing debating at school, friday lunchtimes….beside East lothian(lab)MP Fiona O’Donnel(nee Kenny)
we need to focus our energy.. that might mean SNP, I almost joined tonight but held back…might be what I need to do though… sent a personal email to AS just to say thanks for tearing Nic Robinson a new earhole
Overheard the tail-end of a conversation tonight, oot the widae, hae’in a roly in sunny Leith..
Lady: (eating F/supper w/2 “interesting” dogs and an early teen)…”Ah feel genuinly sorry for Alicsammon but ah cannae say anyhin ‘cos ah didnae vote”
As the youth would say…I was like WTF….
We have all had a revelation about the so-called media in our EXCEPTIONAL country, we should know by now that we need to do something about it.
The answer is right HERE since were all “cybernats” right?
The Online chat has been what kept us all strong, helped us through the moments when the polls were against us and “Shock and Awa” was in full effect(Shame they got my Mum over to the dark side, but I guess it’s a democracy)
Would it not be totally amazing if all the online stars of CYBERNATERY could condense into a coherent (weekly?…I’m guessing sport has gone now unless we can gradually pull them back in….Dundee United anyone? jambo mesel but admire the stance…..(Brian Taylor says he’s an Arab))
We now Know who the online stars are… obvs Stu, WGD, Derek, there are also the Sunday Herald Folk and so many others……………………….:-)
THE PRINT MEDIA IS DEAD IN SCOTLAND
Can we not bring all our stars together with an online publication….we WOULD make it work!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Right, little bit more nicotine, little bit more Bob Marley, Get Up Stand Up then bed…..tomorrow is another day for the 45’s and I’ll be wearing my AYE teeshirt
WE’RE ALL STILL HERE BTW….GOIN’ NOWHERE
AXP
Can we please stop calling all pensioners no voters as their mature but young at heart yes voter’s on this site and it must be making them feel very peeved off, or offended.
Either call them no voter’s or dingle berry voter’s.
Big Jock “Can we get 45 badges made up and distributed. We can wear these with pride and know each other. Do you agree.”
A slight mod on the standard YES version. See if you can guess what it is going to be before opening it up.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/92w7qkeh66o2pg0/yet.jpg?dl=0
59 SNP MPs will shock them.