The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

Don’t come around here no more

Posted on May 07, 2014 by

With crushing predictability, the Scotsman today ran a “vile cybernats” story based around last week’s big thing, the fake-grassroots “Vote No Borders” campaign group. Weaker even than the usual efforts, this one simply reported the group’s claims at face value, not bothering with so much as a single example of the alleged abusive posts.

“A campaign group launched last week in support of a No vote in the referendum says it has suffered a “virulent and nasty attack” from Nationalists since going public.

The Vote No Borders campaign has been forced to block comments from being left on its website, as a result of the onslaught.”

But while tidying up some tabs tonight, we happened to notice that we still had a VNB page open, with the first day’s comments intact. Just how bad were they?

Here’s the “outpouring” of “abuse” and “extremist” “venom” that “forced” the group to completely close down the comment facility (rather than, say, deleting any offensive ones and getting on with their lives).


We apologise to any sensitive readers.

Print Friendly

    1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 12 05 14 16:08

      Harry Giles: The Accidental Cybernat | National Collective

    161 to “Don’t come around here no more”

    1. Croompenstein says:

      My God the abuse, I had to avert my eyes..

    2. wildgypsyrover says:

      *gasp* the unmitigated horror!… quick.. someone fetch my smelling salts…. ;p

    3. Old story.Laughable reaction. Dying paper. Nuff said?

    4. Ray says:

      The only thing vile about this is that women on their main page video saying she’s voting no because the partition between India & Pakistan caused “grief, killings, taking over of land.”

      I think helpfully pointing out the quotes of her and others on the site, which is what I did on Twitter on their first day, was a good service and not vile at all.

    5. Steph says:

      It seems like we should give all the unionists a free dictionary so they can finally look up the definition of the word ‘abuse’. Seems like they were never taught what it meant in school.

    6. HandandShrimp says:

      I think the most damning thing I think to say about the NOBs is that I pretty much stopped thinking about them after the first day.

    7. Lesley-Anne says:

      O.K. I admit it it was me, ALL me.

      I’m the one who managed to shut down the comments on this site. How did Ido it you might ask. Well it was simple really, I asked them what sort of grass they were using for their grass roots campaign…obviously! 😛

      Well it was either that or my suggestion that as there was no information forthcoming about the type of grass being used in their grass roots campaign they should consider renaming their campaign a tree roots campaign. 😉

    8. gman says:

      Had a look at the donation total and now stands at 185k from start of 150k. Are we to believe that 35k has been generated when we know there is no grassroot support and little content and activity on the site? I suspect large donations are been passed off as crowdsourced. I’m watching breaking bad just now and they use this approach for laundering money.

    9. Croompenstein says:

      What is wholly unreasonable is the level of venom directed at our young musicians

      At least they weren’t monstered!

    10. Mary Bruce says:

      Christ, the torygraph has this story too. See the press coverage you can get when you have tory pals in high places?

      I have tweeted a link to this page to that creep, Ben Riley-Smith, he has no integrity as a journalist whatsoever.

      Well done saving this page, Rev, allowing me to send it to Mr Riley-Smith, so he could GIRUH.

    11. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Get in there CameronB!

      That’ll larn ’em, to mess with The Krusher!

      Mind you, I should fess up to being one of the vile Cybernats – I posted many dodgy videos, this amongst them:

      ‘Aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye, I should’ve known better…’

    12. Paula Rose says:


    13. Croompenstein says:

      O/T what the f*ck has Torrance done to his hair!

    14. Paula Rose says:

      @ Lesley- Anne, are you coming in the Ferry love?

    15. Paula Rose says:

      (sorry – to)

    16. galamcennalath says:

      An observant friend pointed out that the number of people who ‘like’ VNB (currently 910) was jumping by larger amounts then staying almost static for a while. This would be indicative of someone artificially boosting it, rather than natural steady growth. Could be interesting to watch.

    17. Better Together St Kilda says:

      It’s a jam jar- it catches gnatz.

    18. Lesley-Anne says:

      Paula Rose says:

      @ Lesley- Anne, are you coming in the Ferry love?

      I’d love to but unfortunately I live down here in South West NOB land. 😛

    19. call me dave says:

      I see my comment is there predicting it would be closed to comments by Monday. I was wrong it only lasted to Friday pm.

      It was an ‘aunt Sally’, light relief to YESSERS to pop over there and post a BfS article or a YES live streaming debate or McCrone report.

      Vote no Borders:
      “The truth you can’t handle the truth”!

      (no prizes for film quote reference) 🙂

    20. Better Together St Kilda says:

      @ Lesley-Anne, that is a great shame – where in the SW?

    21. Patrician says:

      I think you will find that does allow comments and keeps them up 🙂

    22. Mosstrooper says:

      Oh my, the horror,

      Matron! the smelling salts. MATRON!…..

      Never mind he’s fainted clean away. Poor sod, the NOBS have done for him.

    23. Lesley-Anne says:

      Better Together St Kilda says:

      @ Lesley-Anne, that is a great shame – where in the SW?

      Down Gretna way, nice and handy for when the First Minister hops over the non existent border to Carlisle to put the minds of businesses in Carlisle at ease. 🙂

    24. call me dave says:


      Aye right 😉

    25. heedtracker says:

      The rudest thing I could think of about was that mega rich founder up there in the blazer came across as a right merchant banker in his youtube thing and then it turned he actually IS a merchant banker. A happy coincidence and grass roots my hairy Scots airse.

    26. fairiefromtheearth says:

      lies lies lies is that all youv got Better Together?

    27. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If memory serves, singing-up to post comments on VNB involved submitting one’s e-mail address.

      Most of the Wingers I spotted on that inaugural thread were using their real names. Don’t know about anyone else, but I haven’t had any contact from VNB complaining about my comments or links.

      Mind you, if anyone did direct ‘abuse’ at their young musicians (which didn’t appear, presumably thanks to prompt moderation) VNB will be able to pass those details to the Police – I’m sure we would all encourage them to do so. Then the culprits can face the full rigour of the law, and the rest of us can have our good names restored!

      Amen to that!

    28. Grouse Beater says:

      I feel … dirty!

    29. Paula Rose says:

      @ Patrician – darling, have they stopped trying to get rid of the Borders? I rather like that part of Scotland.

    30. Lesley-Anne says:

      Patrician says:

      I think you will find that does allow comments and keeps them up 🙂

      Just don’t go asking them any questions. They seem to have adopted the same approach to questions as that other grand bastion of supplying answers, a.k.a. Better together, where if you ask a question you get banned! 😛

    31. As one of the contributors below the line there I can only apologise if anything I wrote offended anyone of a sensitive disposition.

      Well done for keeping the evidence.

    32. Patrician says:

      @Paula Rose, did you follow the link?

    33. I don’t know if I can handle all this reasonableness, I mean what is the world coming to if you can’t trust us Cybernats to live down to Britnat expectations. I’m delighted, sorry I meant to type deeply disappointed, honest.

    34. Paula Rose says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood – young musicians? Where dear?

    35. mogatrons says:

      An excellent capture Stuart. (as always!:))

      David Cunninghams’ comments were prescient …

      “I wish you luck but I suspect that this site will be a learning curve for your supporters to go to a YES vote in a few days.
      Comments will be restricted through moderation by Monday next week because NO has no case worth articulating as you will see”

      David, if you’re reading this I’d like next weeks lottery numbers please. 🙂

    36. Lesley-Anne says:

      Ian you could also sign up via Facebook and as I did via Twitter, hence good Arb set to asking a few *ahem* questions.

      I’ve got it, no NOT that this, I know what they mean by claiming they were abused etc…there were some really terrible people putting up actual QUESTIONS… OOH HORROR on the website. 😛

    37. Thepnr says:

      ‘Ian Brotherhood

      Your link above goes to Paperback Writer rather than Jim Diamond. It’s a great song and very apt to the situation. Can you post the correct link?

    38. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –


      This should be it…

      “Aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye…” etc –

    39. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just seen this from Sunday Herald.

      Sales over 32,000 … Very high for a bank holiday. Production problems affected supply, for which apologies … Bigger print run this week

      If they keep going like this I’m thinking other *ahem* nationals are in for a big shock. 😛

    40. tartanpigsy says:

      I hope it’s not too soon to go off topic,

      a couple of things, earlier someone posted up about todays announcement regarding polling cards going out mid August

      and the dates originally reported of 2/9/14 as last day for registration.
      That date is still there

      Anyone know what’s going on because they surely can’t both be right?

      Second thing, Mark Coburn’s epic bike ride from Rome to home is now a third of the way through, and his appeal for funds for local Yes groups is needing a boost.

      I’ve met Mark a few times, he’s a great campaigner and deserves all the support he can get with this project

      Do what you can folks,

      over and out;)

    41. Devereux says:

      O/T Rev – I am down in your part of the world on Friday – Royal Gloucestershire – yup – land of Bonnie Prince Charlie ( the other one) , landrovers, pig roasts, hunting shootin’ and fishing etc at the Badminton Horse Trials – complete with Yes badge, Car sticker and tattoo – who says cultural determinants are simple ! If on the faint chance you are there I would like to buy you a huge pint of Scrumpy !!

    42. Derek Strachan says:

      Such startling and vicious cybernattery. If I had a monocle I wager it would have popped right out!

      I notice the poster called David Cunningham was very close to the mark with his prediction, if not right on the money. I’m not sure if he has a gift and can see the future, or if Better Together and Chums are just that predicta-

      Oh, wait, it’s the last one, my mistake.

    43. James123 says:

      Sales over 32,000 … Very high for a bank holiday. Production problems affected supply, for which apologies … Bigger print run this week

      The Sunday Herald have to live up to these figures and produce the kind of journalism we see on here. An exposé of the BBC news blackout we saw today would be nice.

    44. Lesley-Anne says:

      I think that now they have bitten the bullet James the Sunday Herald will indeed keep the pressure up on everyone and everything that fails to behave in a neutral way towards Scottish independence. 🙂

    45. Alba4Eva says:

      Stu. It appears that the Cybernat Nation has unintentionally… and through the medium of intellectual debate and the seeking of truth, accidentally and by chance, bayonetted the wounded ‘No Borders’ grossruts Tory millionaire funded campaign (which btw, has a couple of bars of a song/dirge yet to be heard in full as its’ Piece de resistaunche). I think we should maybe say we are sorry for being the buble(y) busters… Tory party poopers… or something? …Maybe? …Eh?

    46. Camilla Kaczinski says:

      It was quite sweet and naive at first when everyone could just post on their facebook wall. Which I promptly did.

      I just can’t believe they still try to push this as a grassroots organisation, when it’s pretty clear it’s the work of Acanchi.

      As for abuse. Have they tried taking a look at the comments to referendum related articles on … the Daily Mail’s site? BBC’s? The above is not abuse.

    47. No comments seem to be allowed at all on VNB now. Disappointing – some of them were quite funny. A guy has sent a poem in though. “Dear oh dear…” would be the most appropriate response. Looks like he’s used the “Now I wonder what rhymes with that” technique.

    48. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      I archived the comments on the NOB “Music” page when there were 14 of them :

      I see no evil. Just great hilarity.

      Because I commented of some or all of the NOB pages, I then got emails confirming subsequent comments, right up until the comments facility was pulled.

      For some unfathomable reason I decided not to delete these emails, so I still have them.

      I have around 100 of these emails, pretty well all with taking-the-piss comments like the ones in the archived NOB “Music” link above.

      The NOB comments pages were wiped and commenting was discontinued on Friday evening (2nd May), when there were up to 190 comments on the main page. So the emails I have, plus the “Music” page archive, represents a record of roughly 50% of what they received before they pulled the plug on comments.

      The most remarkable thing is the incredibly small number of supportive comments, given that it is supposed to be a grass-roots campaign. Anybody would be forgiven for thinking it was a complete fake (i.e. astroturf).

    49. MochaChoca says:

      There was a series of comments concerned that ‘no borders’ were campaigning literally for the eradication of the Borders region and the suggestion that it was intended to split it in two, attaching half to Lothian and half to Dumfries and Galloway. The commentator defending the Borders region insisted that the two halves were surely ‘better together’ !

      Brought a smile to my face anyway.

    50. tartanpigsy says:

      Seeing will be believing with regards to the Sunday Herald really getting into what the media , especially the BBC have been trying to get away with up until now.

      If we started to see some of Derek Bateman’s or even Newsnet’s style of deconstructing the way journalism is being carried out in Scotland at the moment I’d be amazed.

      That would be akin to treason from the perspective of the elite, and I feel maybe a bridge too far, at this stage, for the SH.

    51. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dave Beveridge –


      A competition. Who can write a poem which encapsulates the best reasons for staying in the UK!

      It’s a winner!

      (Excuse me while I find my fez, smoking jacket and cigarette-holder…)

    52. Liquid Lenny says:

      Omg Brewer mentions Newsnet Scotland article saying pensions are safe..

    53. ronnie anderson says:

      Its awe Cameron Bs fault awe that abuse withoot his usual

      flair,he never left them a wee ditty,his playlist must hiv

      been broked.

    54. @Ian Brotherhood

      Well I can do one for VNB easy enough:

      Up sprang a new Tory site
      To put all these cybernats right
      It lasted a day
      Before fading away
      No wonder, it really was sh*te.

    55. Lesley-Anne says:

      Liquid Lenny says:

      Omg Brewer mentions Newsnet Scotland article saying pensions are safe..

      Just a pity that no one at the BBC has the guts to actually mention or even discuss this subject in ANY news programme…COWARDS!

    56. rab_the_doubter says:

      Scottish Questions on now. They might as well call it Better Together Questions. I would suggest that all pro independence MP’s just boycott this – no democracy to be seen here.

    57. Flower of Scotland says:


      I agree about Mark Coburn,s epic bike ride! He needs a lot more funding! Come on!

    58. Brian Hill says:

      Nice to see my contribution there. I made a point, as I always do, to be polite and reasonable. After all I have friends who are No-ists and I won’t browbeat them any more than I expect them to browbeat me. But we have the debate and a laugh, mostly.

      I think there are some who don’t like to see, as the above page illustrates, an overwhelming and reasonable counter-argument being made.

      Democracy is about the right to say No. Even the right to say No to No. Right?

    59. Thepnr says:

      @Liquid Lenny
      “Omg Brewer mentions Newsnet Scotland article saying pensions are safe.”

      You would like to think that not every Scottish journalist working for BBC in Scotland has a heart of stone and that some of them have an opinion more akin to ours.

      Just can’t express it though, they have to be “onside” or out of a job. 40% of Scots at least support Independence, I think it unlikely that this figure differs much for those that work in the BBC.

      String pullers are to blame, those that support indy are trapped with nowhere to go. How many of you would speak out? Not an easy thing to do, the NUJ could apply pressure and aught to but I doubt it will.

      Remember who we are fighting.

    60. rab_the_doubter says:

      Re cybernatting the the Nob orders Facebook page, I admit it, I’m Spartacus.

    61. Molly says:

      Just caught up with a couple of the last posts and what really hit home after speaking to a ‘No but now maybe’earlier.

      After the usual whataboutery, I asked them if they’d attended any of the debates? Did they know people have set up Indy radio stations, there are POD casts,websites, there are films being made, plays being written, windies for Indys, the Postie cycling Rome to Home and numerous other groups , all set up by ordinary people and of course they said they’d never heard about any of these things.

      Then you contrast what our press is printing. Torcuil Crichton you should be embarrassed for taking money for that and The Daily Record embarrassed for printing it. I understand some people don’t want Independence for lots of reasons but surely even they deserve better than this ? This level of contempt would scare me far more than Independence.

    62. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Three cheers for the Queen,
      She’s the best there’s ever been!
      Though some say she’s Liz the Second,
      She’ll always be ‘First’ in my book!

      Three cheers for British pensions!
      The BBC gives them few mentions,
      Clive Dunn said ‘don’t panic! don’t panic!’
      But the Scots get all manic.

      Three cheers for Strictly and Doctor Who!
      And Britain’s Got Talent!
      And that guy Starkey!
      What a malarkey!

      Let’s all stay together,
      That’s the way it was meant to be,
      United and happy forever,
      UKOK, and BT!

      Hip-hip – hooray!

      Hip-hip – hooray!

      Hip-hip – HOOOO-RAAAAAY!!

    63. David Smith says:


      In Gretna? I don’t feel so lonely now, trapped here in No Man’s Land! 🙂

    64. Lesley-Anne says:

      David Smith says:


      In Gretna? I don’t feel so lonely now, trapped here in No Man’s Land! 🙂

      I’m not in Gretna but close by, and what’s more I’m not alone there are quite a few of us YESSERS around these parts. 😛

    65. Greannach says:

      Sorry to see the comments gone. I commented twice, once with the reasons why Scotland isn’t sleepwalking into independence, then later (after seeing the comments from their supporters) to ask if VNB was actually a spoof site. I used my full name and email and never got a reply. Maybe the Nobs’ definition of abuse is when someone explains something rationally to them. Maybe they were embarrassed by the sheer craziness of their supporters’ views. Maybe VNB doesn’t exist and they had nobody to reply to queries.

    66. Paula Rose says:

      @ ian – did they not teach you scanning etc when you were at school?

    67. Taysideterrier says:

      OT, Had Labours “EU” election card through the door today.
      Its basically a propoganda leaflet for the referendum and nothing to do with the euro elections.
      In fact im sure it only mentions Europe twice in the whole thing, and thats on the back page.

      Are they using money that will be allocated officially for the eu elections to get referendum campaign material out? Possibly in order bypass spending limits or other rules from the electoral commission? Surely something not right there? Also says its from “Scottish Labour”

    68. rab_the_doubter says:

      If anyone is in any doubt that Labour, Tory and Lib Dem all sing from the same hymnsheet a couple of minutes of SQ should clear that one up. Another thing, The SNP does Westminster the courtesy of not getting involved in legislation not affecting Scotland. Why are so many non Scottish MP’S allowed the platform of SQ to do us down. Westminster Democracy my arse.

    69. Paula Rose says:

      @ Greannach – VNB exists! Please darling!

    70. Capella says:
      OT -one for the anoraks! The Public Admin Select Committee filleting Sir Nicholas MacPherson, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, on why he published his advice on the Currency Union. Fascinating insight into the convoluted loyalties of a top civil servant. Essentially, Sir Nick is loyal to the UK and Scotland isn’t in it. WW2 analogy given!

    71. Ali says:

      The truth our kryptonite against Projectfear

    72. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose –

      Unbelievable as it may seem, I am, for the most part, self-taught.

    73. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says:
      If memory serves, singing-up to post comments on VNB involved submitting one’s e-mail address.
      if anyone did direct ‘abuse’ at their young musicians VNB will be able to pass those details to the Police

      See the example of an email from NOB website comments system below (proving that they will have the email addresses of commenters, and so could report real abuse to the Police):-

      From: Vote No Borders [mailto: Team [at] votenoborders [dot] co [dot] uk]
      Sent: 02 May 2014 16:34
      To: Calgacus MacAndrews
      Subject: New comment on Have your Say

      Calgacus —

      Steve Dickson just commented on Have your Say :

      I wonder how long it will take this site to have a “wee accident” and lose all it’s data and it to be “restored” with all the positive Yes stories removed!!! I actually think this is a cleverly worked Yes campaign site. Let’s look at the evidence. 1) set up a alleged No campaign site 2) get all yer pals in the medja to promote it 3) totally lose control of it It’s either a Yes site or a No site owned by complete and utter incompetents. Ah the latter sounds reasonable too!!!!!

      Respond here:

      This email was sent to calgacus [dot] macandrews [at] xxxxx [dot] xxx. To stop receiving updates on this page, unfollow here.
      Vote No Borders Campaign • United Kingdom

      Created with NationBuilder, the essential toolkit for leaders.

    74. rab_the_doubter says:

      Here’s my poem, please bear with me, this took a lot of work and spoilt draft copies, but i think i’ve nailed it now. The poem is entitled:

      ‘The benefits of Union’

      ” ”

      Hope you enjoyed it.

    75. Capella says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      Great poem – hip hip hooray – encapsulates the entire debate!

    76. Lesley-Anne says:

      I can see you’ve done this write a poem thing before rab, you’re a real star. 😛

    77. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Calgacus –

      Nice one.

      On that same evening I tried to stop receiving updates because the Inbox was getting clogged, but it was impossible. I resigned myself to having to manually empty the Inbox, but VNB didn’t, apparently, get that many messages (and most were probably from ‘us’) – even the following day, maybe 25, 30 had to be deleted, and then – hey presto! – no more from them, and not a jot since.

      They’ve made a real arse of themselves. Whoever staked all that ‘serious’ dosh on them must be well hacked-off.

      A joke outfit altogether, deserving nothing but ridicule.

    78. joe kane says:

      In contrast to the delicate wallflowers of the Better Together campaign who collapse at the slightest exposure to cybernats (ie voters who disagree with them in public), a disabled person who has been sanctioned by the vile human rights abusers at the DWP left a suicide note on Prime Minister Cameron’s Facebook. Cameron’s internet followers left comments goading the disabled person into killing themselves.

      The online disabled activist community in Britain are buzzing about this tonight. I wonder if that interest will be enough for the unionist press to report this example of the anti-social internet behaviour of their own followers and supporters?

      Reference –
      Unwell person incited to commit suicide – on David Cameron’s Facebook page

    79. Lanarkist says:

      I must say, I like the fact that the Referendum is capable of bestowing two contradictory meanings for the same words, abusive when applied to BT or Nob Orders criticisms but banter when applied to Yes or First Minister.

      Grassroots, discussion, questions, facts, references, criticism, statistics, incontrovertible truths!

      Some quite unexpected side effects to seeking sovereignty through peaceful democratic means.

    80. Paula Rose says:

      Lanarkist honey – are you going to the jolly in the ferry?

    81. manandboy says:

      Dan Snow on BBC4 tonight continuing his series on India & the British Empire gave a number of insights into the mind set of the English Establishment.
      Let us be quite clear about this though – in the minds of those who retain the spirit of the Empire, the people of Scotland are not a consideration. They merely occupy very valuable property which is important to the business.

    82. Lanarkist says:

      Hi Paula, yes, will try and get along for a few shandies if I behave between now and Friday!

      What time does the event start?

    83. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @joe kane –

      I don’t doubt that you are a well motivated person.

      Don’t you realise that David Cameron is the Prime Minister?

      He’s a busy man! He doesn’t get the chance to check his FB page that often. I’m quite sure he will respond to this shocking story as soon as he hears about it.

    84. GrahamB says:

      NOBs musicians: give them a break guys, they probably haven’t thought through their referendum response properly and the song they were asked (paid?) to perform was shite, wouldn’t even make it as BTs Eurovision entry – only part of the White Paper that made my blood run cold that we would go in for the Eurovision Contest – but they are not too bad musically in spite of the trite nonsense they had to perform.

      rab_the_doubter at 11:28:
      Listened to about two minutes of this in the a.m. before switching off. Just can’t stand ‘our’ representatives taking it in turns to run Scotland down. Posted earlier in another thread but it disappeared: will the EBC still give air time to this disgusting spectacle after May 30 or will they allow a 30 minute right of reply from the YES campaign?

    85. dadsarmy says:

      Ah that’s sad, it doesn’t show my highly abusive post simply wishing them, as an Independentist, good luck on their new venture.

    86. MJS Dundee says:

      Labour Euro material – anti-Indy …

      Tory Euro stuff arrived in my part of Dundee earlier today. Cheap and nasty paper quality. They list their priorities 1 to 6 or whatever, #1 is No to Independence. Their #1 Euro election priority.

      And the 2017 EU In-Out referendum is in there.

      Alas they didn’t have a quote or endorsement from Joanne Piercy, the BT not-politician concerned working mother with a pound fixation. Disappointing. The pic of Davd Cameron is just what we want coming through our letter boxes though. (huh?)

      So anyway, there’s a snap for Labour and Tories on anti-Indy being a big Euro elections priority. Send us to Brussels and we’ll er … have Barosso say no Belgian waffles in an i-Scotland.

      Red Tories, Blue Tories, Orangey-Yellow Tories, Purple Tories … . It’s like one of those puzzles where you’ve got 6 pictures that look the same and you’ve got to pick out the nano-differences. Not easy.

    87. daddyo says:

      joe kane says
      Unwell person incited to commit suicide – on David Cameron’s Facebook page

      I have just read your link to this Joe.
      The more I read about all of this – in “all of this ” I mean the contempt that the few have regard for the many the more I realise that most of the “United Kingdom” the greatest thing since sliced mince, has been a con game perpetrated upon “we the people”.

      How do you give the clarion call to freedom to the people when they only have the “media” telling them what is and what is not. The saying “who you going to believe? Your own two lying eyes or me? is so prevalent that I despair that the truth is not getting out there.

      I have always believed in “following the money” in any discussion and therefore must conclude that the attacks by our “ane folk” must have money or priviledge involved. But will thirty pieces of silver be enough to salve their souls?

      How do you get what is discussed here out to the non-engaged public? Those that read, see and hear the news through the media filter?

      I didn’t realise till now that myself and my family live now in what could crudely be called a fascist state or at least in a watered down version of 1984 and Brave New World.

    88. kininvie says:


      The only way is on the doorsteps, in the cafe, in the train, in the bus. Steel yourself to talk to strangers. Carry Aye Rights in your pocket. Wear your badge. Never duck a conversation…
      We win, one at a time. Yes has always said that. It’s up to us. The ‘campaign’ is not going to win this for us. Only we can win it, as individuals.

    89. CameronB Brodie says:

      Croompenstein sayd:
      7 May, 2014 at 10:30 pm

      What is wholly unreasonable is the level of venom directed at our young musicians

      At least they weren’t monstered!

      That came later, after the watershed. 🙂

      TBH, I missed the last page of comments, but I didn’t spot any abuse. Perhaps not a lot of support, but plenty of related and background information posted. Perhaps that was what burst them like a balloon?

    90. Barontorc says:

      What’s happened to Derek Bateman’s site? I’ve tried several times today to get in – nothing doing, now we seem to have Bob the Builder fixing a crack in a wall.

    91. Jim says:

      Bloody cybernats!

    92. Macart says:

      So their idea of abuse is to be categorically out argued in a public forum?

      And the Scotsman ran with that as an article?

      Oh Jeez. 😀

    93. garyjc says:

      OT – latest post on Mungiun’s Republic re the NHS after a no vote. Please watch, weep and distribute very far and very wide. What an understated and powerful speech. This will really make you think.

    94. john king says:

      Those young impressionable girls in that group might have read those posts, have you people no shame?

      Lesley Anne says
      “O.K. I admit it it was me, ALL me.

      I’m the one who managed to shut down the comments on this site.”

      Weeelll I suppose I did say I could see a few Dandelions poking though their nice green (artificial) sward,

      But that was only after you lot said stuff so don’t blame me,
      I still think those big boys who ran away have got a lot to answer for,

      Better together for St Kilda says
      £It’s a jam jar- it catches gnatz.”

      Pretty much what I said to them on their comments page (in the nicest possible way of course)

      Call me Dave says
      “The truth you can’t handle the truth”!”

      A few good men,
      Now what do I win 🙂

      ” A happy coincidence and grass roots my hairy Scots airse.”

      Oh for pity’s sake,
      Wont someone think of the porridge
      PLEEEAASSSE someone just think of the porridge

      Ian Brotherhood says
      “Mind you, if anyone did direct ‘abuse’ at their young musicians (which didn’t appear, presumably thanks to prompt moderation) VNB will be able to pass those details to the Police – I’m sure we would all encourage them to do so. Then the culprits can face the full rigour of the law, and the rest of us can have our good names restored!”

      I wont be holding my—-,
      wait I just have to answer the door 🙂

      Calgacus MacAndrews says
      “For some unfathomable reason I decided not to delete these emails, so I still have them.”

      funny you should say that, so have I. 🙂

      CameronB says
      “What is wholly unreasonable is the level of venom directed at our young musicians

      At least they weren’t monstered!”

      What/ like this you mean

      Ian Brotherhood says
      “(Excuse me while I find my fez, smoking jacket and cigarette-holder…)”

      A glass of Port,
      You’ll need a glass of Port

      Lesley Anne says
      “Just a pity that no one at the BBC has the guts to actually mention or even discuss this subject in ANY news programme…COWARDS!”

      Maybe it “didn’t add to the sum of human knowledge”?

      Rab the Doubter says
      “Re cybernatting the the Nob orders Facebook page, I admit it, I’m Spartacus.”

      we’ve done that one
      we’ve done that one
      we’ve done that one
      we’ve done that one,
      we’ve done that one
      ala crowd response

      Anyway everyone knows I am Spartacus.

      Ian Brotherhood says
      “Three cheers for the Queen,”

      I said a glass of Port I didn’t say neck a whole bottle.
      was that comment too political? 🙂

      Rab the doubter says
      “If anyone is in any doubt that Labour, Tory and Lib Dem all sing from the same hymnsheet a couple of minutes of SQ should clear that one up”

      I saw it yesterday,
      How Angus Robertson keeps his temper is beyond me, I was disgusted at the procession of nonentities queuing up to do down their own country especially the fool who said Scotland needs nuclear power, I take it he’s not aware the Hydro scheme near Oban which has enough expansion capacity to power the whole of Scotland and then some?

      Rab the doubter says
      “‘The benefits of Union’

      ” ”

      Hope you enjoyed it.”

      We have Im sure everyone will agree,
      found our new national BARD

    95. bunter says:

      Very strange that The Herald is running as one of the main stories again, the one about pinnochio the dinosaur. Two days running on the main web page, yet a huuuge story on pensions, appeared for a couple of hours then almost vanished from prominence.

      So what I am saying is, who is going to bet on this coming up on FMQ’s via the stairheid lament.

    96. john king says:

      Just so they know we’re watching them

      Dear Mr King

      Thank you for your email to the Commission and apologies for the delay in replying.

      The Commission is in regular contact with both registered and unregistered campaigners to make them aware of the rules on spending and donations.

      I hope this answers your query.


      Eddie Follan
      Senior Referendum Officer
      0131 225 0202
      john king 02/05/2014

      I trust the Scottish Electoral Commission will be taking steps to ask the Vote no Borders campaign about their involvement in the referendum campaign and have them explain how without any discernible fund raising campaign they would appear to have amassed over £400,000
      john king

    97. JLT says:

      Well, I commented on it, but in no way attacked the two young ladies, nor any person. Instead, the comments I left were of the presentation of the website itself in the sense that the ‘answers’ that it was giving, were not necessarily correct.

      If this was a considered vile and abusive comment, then god help them if they should ever come out of the woodwork and decide to debate openly with the public. After all, the chances are that every 2nd person they meet, will be a Nationalist! (we are at parity – 50-50)

    98. goldenayr says:

      I’ve still got all comments in email.

    99. bjsalba says:

      Just heard Naughtie spewing more lies about Vote no borders.
      Right after an item about abuse against the Weirs (not given real credence) there was an item on this “grass-roots” organization.

      Does that man have any moral standards at all?

    100. Arabs for Independence says:

      O/T – It is Thursday, it is FMQs day and therefore there must be a BBC led scare/bad news story that Ms Lamont and Ms Davidson can use to attack the FM. Right on cue enter the BBC with the headline news of longer A&E waiting times.

      I wonder what Ms Lamont and Davidson will ask about today?

    101. bunter says:

      Herald and Hootsmon going big on the Weirs and smear campaign and an unnamed MSP. Wonder who that would be?

    102. Ken500 says:

      Another one bites the dust. Fools and their money.

      UIKP are obsessed with Borders.

    103. caz-m says:

      Still NO mention of pensions on BBC Scotland.

      Plenty of other scare stories though.

      A&E Depts. in near collapse,

      Scotland would be a basket case in currency union,

      Also an un-elected room full of troughers in London told us it’s OK to start Fracking.

      And many many more stories like thank folk, just stay tuned to your local fun lovin BBC Scotland.

    104. Croompenstein says:

      Saw the thing about fracking in the green and pleasant land, are they still trying to start fracking near Falkirk, I seem to recall someone posted about this?

    105. caz-m says:

      And here was me thinking this “NOB orders” site was somewhere people could buy DILDOS from.

    106. Croompenstein says:

      caz-m – OOer!

    107. gordoz says:

      @Arabs for Independence

      Yesterday quiet news day, no scare stories about YES but good news on pensions – at least some honesty at last ?

      (Did anyone else notice the absolute crap and filler on both state broadcaster newslines, Mandolins – seriously ????)

      Now, let me see what is it about today ?

      Audit Scotland > NHS A&E issues > Q BBC > Q Eleanor Bradford > Q Scare story > Q J Lamont MSP or J Baillie MSP > FM Questions day.

      Ahhh normal service resumes.

    108. Footsoldier says:

      James Naughtie on GMS has highlighted the Scotsman article and one in the Telegraph about this “terrible” abuse. Managed of course to give a good plug to VNB. Is BBC Scotland short of a few marbles in this campaign?

    109. Adam fortune says:

      VILE!!! argh!

    110. Dave says:

      I think that Vote Nob Orders will regret this decision as the comments are the only reason worth visiting Project Fear sites like the ‘Scots’man.

    111. onzebill says:

      Ref. the VNB name change, GMS at 07.20 this morning, comment I think by Gary Robertson??? where he said that there was no way he could read out some of the comments left on the VNB site because they were way too, too terrible for that time in the morning.

    112. onzebill says:

      Sorry it was Naughtie not Robertson

    113. jim gallacher says:

      Ban this sort of thing.
      Such abuse, my head is spinning, think of the children.

    114. gordoz says:

      Hypocracy alive and well at Glasgow Princes Trust Youth event.

      See insightful piece (not), from Lord Haughey (Labour funder) about poor souls Michelle ‘Moan’ and Bill Munro (Barrhead travel) and the hard time they’ve had about being against a YES vote.

    115. Oneironaut says:

      With abuse like this being directed at them, I really don’t know how the loyal defenders of the union manage to keep going.

      I mean people actually posting the truth??? In today’s society?!!! *gasp* *shock* *horror* *faints*

      Ahh, it’s nice to be back. I’ve missed this! 😀

    116. Ian Brotherhood says:

      re VNB, it’s ‘Calmanballs’ redux, right?

      Let’s see one of these ‘abusive’ comments.

      Just one?

    117. cearc says:


      Ahh, truth would be a bit of a shock coming from the BBC.

    118. cearc says:

      Perhaps we should lobby for just one example, not too vile, to be published.

      I can’t remember anything even vaguely offensive.

    119. cearc says:

      Well, actually, the suggestion that we should believe that Nob was a grassroots campaign. That is pretty offensive.

      Maybe SH would like to run a feature exposing the roots of this grassroots campaign as it being made news again this week? Second headline to the pensions are OK.

      Having ‘come out’ they should be spoilt for choice on stories to write.

    120. cearc says:

      Perhaps everybody with saved comments should forward them to SH.

      I, foolishly, deleted mine.

    121. Nana Smith says:

      With Patten retiring [due to ill health]Sir Richard Lambert who is a former head of the cbi is in the running for the top job.

      Does’nt that fill you with confidence for great change!

    122. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Does anyone happen to know how many Accident/Emergency Units there are across Scotland?

      A&E departments never close, so the 104,000 number being bandied about this morning has to be divided by 365, and that gives 284 per day…that’s 12 per hour.

      How many units? And how many of those waiting are people who’ve stubbed their toe or have a skelf in their thumb?

    123. gerry parker says:

      I can see the site OK, but it has been stuck at 5 comments on his last article for the past 2 days, showing “Blog token not found” in the comments panel.

    124. goldenayr says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Last time I was at A&E,with a broken arm,there was a young woman with a grazed knee and another with a ripped nail.Now I know they sting like buggery but A&E FFS.

    125. goldenayr says:

      OT but for anyone not seen this.

      Nearly wept at the reason for their pleas…with pity.

      P.S. Don’t click their twitter link,it doesn’t work..much like their arguments.

    126. bjsalba says:

      O/T I suspect that all the folks on this site are already committed as far as the MEP elections go, but even if that is the case, I still recommend a look at “the reasons to vote alternative” piece.

      There are some interesting comments and snippets of information (some require following links).

    127. Votadini Jeannie says:

      I don’t know why they deleted all of the comments. My alter-ego posted some pro-Union comments, and there were a couple of others who sounded like genuine No-ers that posted too. Or perhaps they were just being being ironic as well…

    128. gordoz says:

      O/T : Sanjeev Kohli (serious question)

      Is he still meant to be a comedian; or is he doing something different nowadays ?

      (Not a patch on his brother without a script if he is)

    129. gordoz says:


      Just seen the site – boak !

    130. galamcennalath says:

      Even the Weirs comments have been twisted and associated with VNB ‘persecution’ across MSM this morning.

      This is what we can expect from now until September, probably worse.

      Newspapers can behave as they like, sadly. The best we can hope for is a few ‘jump ship’ and swim across to the Yes side. Perhaps the Sun, perhaps the Herald, certainly none of the London derivatives.

      However, the BBC is completely different. They have a statutary obligation to be impartial and balanced. They should be challenged every time they show clear bias.

    131. gordoz says:


      Can there be anything more wasteful than being able to speak ‘Gaelic’ and being totally against Scottish Independence.

      Sorry just can’t let the Torcuil Crichton thing go; what a waste of space the guy is.

    132. gordoz says:

      @goldenayr / VNB numpty

      “I’m just a local boy from Greenock who got a free education from the state, who went up to London by mistake, and has been trying to come back ever since.”

      I he’s a clever millionair – ‘who went up to London’, from Greenock ? or was it Greenwich ?

      What a balloon!

    133. manandboy says:

      The United Nations on Self-determination:

      “All peoples have the right to self-determination.

      By virtue of that right

      they freely determine their political status

      and freely pursue their economic, social

      and cultural development. ”

      Except for Scotland.

      Aye right.

    134. Hugh Wallace says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 9:07

      There appears to be 12 NHS Boards in Scotland operating 31 A&E (ED) departments and 66 minor injury units (MIU).

    135. David Smith says:

      Hold steady folks.
      This torrent of vilification is entirely designed to provoke a violent response which would then be twisted and used against us.
      Yes, it’s hard, but stand firm. The eyes of the world will be on us soon enough and they will ultimately be exposed for the criminals they are.
      Play the long game and wave our movement’s good intentions high and clear so the world will see the Unionists’ inevitable ‘false flag’ acts of violence for what they are also.
      They cannot suppress the truth forever and when it finally breaks out it is game over for their centuries old game of treachery.

    136. Greannach says:

      gordoz –

      I see what you mean. If Malcolm Offord was just a local laddie from Greenock, surely he went ‘down’ to London, unless his sense of geography leaves a bit to be desired.

    137. handclapping says:

      I’m just a local boy from Greenock who got a free education from my fellow Scots, who went down to London by mistake, and has been trying to come back ever since.

      If you really want to do something you will achieve it. That he is not back further shews his mendacity

    138. TheItalianJob says:

      @garyjc at 3.36am

      Just watched that inspiring talk by that lady surgeon.

      Excellent. Last sentance she spoke, “We have the power in our hands, to roll up our sleeves, spend the next decade and build the Scotland we want”.

      Very emotional statement.

    139. bjsalba says:


      Ah, I understand now. Its a grass-roots organization for the very rich, who want to be anonymous.

      Oh whoopee!

      Perhaps Mr Offord is upset because the Weirs have not joined.

      Just out of curiosity, just how much has he donated to local good causes in his home town of Greenock? He says he is desperate to get back, so he must take a keen interest in the place.

    140. goldenayr says:


      Knew you guys would spot that one immediately.
      Kinda shows where his loyalties and heart lie I thought.

      “up to London” Sheesh.

    141. David Smith says:

      Can’t stand that expression, Goldenayr.
      It’s all downhill in so many ways in my opinion.

    142. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hugh Wallace –

      Thanks for that.

      284 people waiting more than four hours every day…divide that by 31 and we get, erm, tap tap tap, scratch heid, tap, tap, tap…9.16 per unit…

      Let’s round that up to 10.

      So, at worst, ten people per day per A&E unit in Scotland wait more than four hours. Can we even guess how many folk turn up in each and every one of those A&E departments for next to no reason?

      Is that more newsworthy than the peace of mind of almost a million pensioners who are being denied basic information crucial to their mental/physical health?

    143. gerry parker says:

      It was always known as “Up” toLondon in the Post office.
      i.e. Caledonian day Up, the Up special etc.

      just sayin’

    144. gerry parker says:

      Derek Bayeman’s site seems to be working OK for me now.

    145. The Rough Bounds says:

      Regarding the Yesnobs, what a bunch of big girl’s blouses.

      I had an email published in the Dundee Courier just over a week ago. It was a tongue in cheek thing about the No voters and anybody with an ounce of sense would have realised it was really meant to understood like that.

      But there the humour ended; I received Hate Mail. I have kept it in case the police might want to see it some time.

      Then there was a letter in the Courier about my letter and it entirely misrepresented what I had said in mine. So much for balance.

      Nasty Cybernats? The No camp doesn’t realise just how much we are restraining ourselves. When we go for their jugulars they will know it.

    146. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Zany comedy relief is to be found in the Letters in today’s Herald dominated by a collection of scribes – oblivious obviously to today’s front page and page 6 (everyday) – who appear to observe that the daily Herald is balanced and neutral on the referendum.
      They are all cancelling their subscriptions to the Sunday Herald. What a blow.

      Ian Macwhirter provides some sanity in an excellent article

    147. CameronB Brodie says:

      Apart from posting non-judgmental comments to introduce additional information, I tried my best to use the words of existing pro-union comments. I even quoted Joanna Lamont about Scots genetics. I quite got into the roll and think I managed to fool a poster from here, until I took it just that little bit too far. 🙂

    148. Dennis Smith says:

      @ Dave MacEwan Hill 11.07

      The pro-Yes editorial in the Sunday Herald reappeared verbatim on Ian Macwhirter’s own website. I could be adding 2 + 2 and getting 5, but that looks like a statement that he wrote it. If so, he has jumped decisively off the fence.

    149. joe kane says:

      Thanks Ian Brotherhood and daddyo.

      It never eases to amaze me the synthetic outrage manufactured by the mainstream news media at the YES and SNP supporters, activists and politicians.

      Even Amnesty International Scotland got in on the act recently based simply on unionist spin. Yet in the case of AI Scotland I have never seen them criticise anyone for praising Ian Duncan Smith and Esther McVey at the DWP. Both are responsible for thousands of deaths of disabled people, driving others to suicide and even trying to starve to death children already in poverty (for that is effectively the consequences of their ever abusive Orwellian-Kafkaesque DWP sanctions policies).

      It would be an interesting exercise to compare the numbers of victims of Putin’s LGBT human rights abuses, with the numbers of victims of the UK Government’s human rights abuses being spearheaded by Ian Deaths-Head Smith and Fester McVile. Maybe Amnesty International Scotland might want to indulge us and help us get the DWP to confess how many sick and disabled patients have died as a result of their neoliberal disability denial ideology out-sourced to Atos on a risk-free contract?

    150. David Smith says:

      “Ian Death’s Head Smith.”
      I’m having that!

    151. HandandShrimp says:

      I fear the NOBs “grass roots campaign” suffered the indignity of encountering a real grass roots campaign. They suddenly discovered that they didn’t like grass roots after all.

      I never posted there because I quickly came to the conclusion that they were irrelevant. They are not a grass roots campaign and they never will be. They are a marketing exercise, nothing more. The comments I did see on my couple of visits were indeed poking fun at their lack of real support and there was a fair number of piss takes and some surreal “unionist” comments most of which were funny and subversive but hardly abusive.

    152. I cant comment on the face book page,ive been blocked for replying to a comment saying the YES comments were abusive,

      My answer was ‘I think all these comments have been fine!

      That was it ,apart from a joke that my Brother lived St Boswells(he does)and was concerned by there campaign to get rid of the ‘Borders’.

      But its ok to call Salmond a fat,nazi c….t as long as your a NO supporter.Check out the facebook…

    153. ScotFree1320 says:

      They are a means to be able spend another £150,000 in the restricted campaigning period. That is all they are for.

    154. JimnArlene says:

      Maybe playing in to their game but, feck off nob orders.

    155. Paula says:

      I love the trolling from “Harry Giles” (mixing votenoborders with the anarchist noborders)

      Also the Nob orders problem is a good example why companies should use dashes in their URLs. eg;

      Here is some dreadfully thought out URLs if you want a laugh:

    156. Paula says:

      Lol I just realised I mispelt “borders”

    157. Evelyn says:

      I have a lot of the comments from the Vote No Borders site which I thought I had posted here this morning but my post may have been too long and it may not have posted. Would Wings like a look at them?

    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

    ↑ Top