Wings Over Scotland

Personally, I would be for because I think you have to take bold and dramatic action in order for people to take notice.

My guess though that this would be unpopular amongst the general populace who (quite reasonably) expect to get representation in parliament.

I’ll be interested to see the poll.

While the SNP have a decent tranche of MPs, they’re always going to be a worry for the other parties. If Labour took a few more seats, there could be a minority Labour government selectively propped up by the SNP. This has to be preying on the minds of the Tories.

Also, the comportment of the SNP contingent continues to earn respect and goodwill.

The Tories and Labour effectively boycott their own parliament over anything involving the SNP then march into the lobbies from the bars to vote against anything the SNP do or say without ever even caring what the issue is about as long as they vote the SNP down

And they laugh at and mock Scotland every time they do it

If the SNP are to remain in the HOC perhaps doing the same to the opposition instead of engaging with them in debate and subjecting themselves and us to abuse

The romantic in me says yes go for it, boycott the place.
The realist says we’d be slaughtered by the MSM and unionist commentators, not just the usual tripe a whole new level of spleen venting.
As distasteful as it is, they just have to grin and bear it

Another “this is not the time” would, imho, be the cue to clear off, out of the midden.
What point in continuing after that?
Unless you’ve got masochistic tendencies.

It feels like a very extreme last resort to be used when every other option has been exhausted.

But to me it feels since the last general election the SNP have taken a sort of slightly timorous, cautious – albeit also reasonably pragmatic – approach. I think they still have a other moves to work through before getting to that extreme a position. They’ve got a few gears to accelerate up into before a boycott would make much sense – and boycotting Westminster would be completely at odds with their current way of going about things.

Besides, in many ways at the moment all they have to do is turn up and watch the system around them crumbling anyway without them even having to do that much.

What would be far more effective is for specific disruption tactics to be employed. Any walkout would be given the usual msm bias against and thus act as a stick to beat the snp. What disruption to carry out, i have no idea, but I’m sure Eck isn’t the only one who knows his way around Erskine May. Given the huge amount of stuff to be done, from memory only 100 out of 600 bits of law have been done so far to transfer across from EU law so time is short enough already without any delays happening. Theres 39 of them so thats enough for each of them to do something and get suspended for a day.

The SNP MP’s withdrawing from WM would only be effective if they took some power with them. They wouldn’t. WM is the most corrupt, cruel and brutal regime on earth. They will defend what they have at any cost. Scotland better be prepared for it when a YES vote wins the independence referendum.

Used to think it was the best thing our SNP MPs could do, but I’m not so sure anymore. One of the main reasons for them staying there for the time being is that, although they are treated like lepers by the other parties within Westminster, the clips that go out on social media get a great deal of admiration and respect from people both south and north of the border.

Additionally, while media appearances are few and far between, our MPs make a huge impact on public opinion. You only have to see comments from down south about how they wish they could vote SNP, or that they’d love to move to Scotland because of our fine MPs.

Without them being there, our impact would be lessened, our media presence would drop, and the old saying “out of sight, out of mind” will start to bite.

It’s a hellhole down there. We should all be very grateful, thankful and appreciative of what they put up with, and when we do finally get to bring them home they will be greeted with tickertape, bands, crowds and a nation’s grateful thanks.

I think there’s a minority of Scots who watch the shenanigans at Westminster and, since the ignorant behaviour towards our SNP MPs there is hardly ever reported in our Scottish (ahem) msm, I don’t think too many people are aware of the derision sent their way every time they speak.

My gut instinct is to bring them home for all the reasons Stuart refers to in his piece but they have been sent there to represent their constituents and must be seen to do that for the moment at least.

Long term, of course, I hope enough people in Scotland come to realise that their place is in Scotland, not Westminster, and they will be in a position to tell England’s parliament where to shove it.

I’m VERY strongly against SNP MPs withdrawing from Westminster. It would make it easy for other parties in SNP constituencies to merely argue that a vote for the SNP is a ‘wasted’ vote. We all know there are enough easily-swayed voters with soft political positions to buy that sort of argument.

Sinn Feinn- a bit rich to criticise the SNP at Westminster (they have no wish to be there but do get some coverage as to their views)

NI views are led by the DUP each evening and negates any contrary view.

No wish just to see Iain Murray and his tory counterparts running ScotLand down and the SNP.

The SNP are the MAIN OPPOSITION to May. Corbyn – well in a few weeks will show his weakness by voting for one form of brexit and then call for a general election to absolve himself from all blame- or so he thinks.

My on thoughts are that we would be playing into the hands of Westmonster and as others have said the MSM would have a field day and we all know the lies they tell.
Better being in the enemy camp and knowing what they are up to.

I think we are doing more damage from within than we could achieve outside.

In any future poll can you please also ask about the monarchy/a republic.

we need to be there to show the public what we are up against , also to call out labour mps who vote against scotland

Alan, you make a very good observation, it would indeed tip the balance in the HoC into a full Tory majority without the need for dup support. Do we really want a majority Tory government with our SNP MP’s in effect relinquishing their seats to more Scottish Tories and a handful of Labour twats representing Scotland?

I feel sure this would be the inevitable outcome.

Think our focus needs to stay on Indyref2 at this moment, also I’m fairly certain this will have been discussed within SNP itself and seen as the no goer that it is. That last walkout was spontaneous, unplanned, if they started threatening this it would lose its effect and be seen rightly as a pr exercise and if our MP’s didn’t see it through to full blown permanent walkout. My feeling is they would lose support at home.

It is an awful job we ask our SNP MPs to do, to stand up and get jeered and sneered at day after day.

On the other hand their dignity and stoicism in the face of the abuse they receive is providing wagon loads of ammunition for the indy cause.

They are pictured again and again talking calmly and sensibly, trying to stand up for Scotland while the oiks of Westminster try to silence them with abuse.

Hats off to our SNP team for not walking out, I know I would not be able to manage it.

There will be a time for a walk in the near future, once Brexit has happened (probably a NoDeal Crash Out blamed on the EU) and PM refuses Section 30 order again.

I would love our MPs to walk out but with our media, it would mean we would have even less coverage of Scotland’s different approach than we do now. At least those who are interested can see, in the set-up we have, how the SNP MPs are abused, maligned and ignored at Westminster as they try to fight Scotland’s corner. I can only see Labour and Tory in collusion with their pals in the BBC and print media having it all their own way and they would always use it against us. No SNP voices to disturb their cosy set up at Westminster? It would be all their Christmases coming at once! Northern Ireland with only the DUP to speak for them in Westminster is a lesson!

It shouldn’t go un-noted that there are two Houses at Westminster (Commons and Lords). The SNP already boycott one of these out of principal.

Personally, I’d like to see the SNP MPs boycotting Westminster. But only after officially notifying Treason May of their intention to implement IndyRef2.

If Treason May says “now is not the time” yet again, our Representatives should immediately get to their feet and walk out, never to return.

The public are seeing more of the SNP MP’s in this parliament as the Tories are in a minority than in the 2015-2017 Parliament when they had 56 seats. They are the brake on the madcap antic of the Tory Government and the Tories don’t like it one bit. They seem normal and articulate compared to Tories and Labour. I would keep them there to get under the Unionist skin.

Our SNP MPs should continue to represent Scotland’s interests in Westminster by continuing to promote the progress of Scotland’s Independence and continue to make their presence felt because:

Out of sight is out of mind.

Their very presence and especially their voice raises blood pressure right around the house. That’s good =)

Our representatives are having so much fun.

And they are so much fun to watch 🙂

Westminster is a den of thieves at the best of times. Someone has to set a good example.

The SNP give hope to the good people of England that a decent kind of politician is possible.

I want them to be there.

And all the stuff you said Rev Stu =)

I’m on the fence with this, and can see both sides.

However, there is one situation in which I definitely think the SNP should walk out (perhaps many more than one, but one which may occur in the next few weeks and springs to mind anyway). And that is if Labour and the Tories, either by design or accident, take us to a precipice point on Brexit where it’s either May’s deal or no deal, and there is no obvious majority for either. In that case, it’s possible the SNP could hold the balance of power. That would put them in a position where they can be unfairly blamed by all sides in England for whatever disaster happens, be that no deal, or anger at May’s deal. You can just see the howling and media going along with it already – “SNP push UK into No Deal!” perhaps being the most damaging outcome. Both Labour and Tory will be looking for scapegoats for their idiotic Brexit stances: the EU and Scotland will be it.

They could simply abstain from the HoC benches, but that wouldn’t help much, as they could still be blamed for abstaining. If they’re put in that situation, they should walk and have no truck with any part of it, on the grounds that Scotland voted against any Brexit and they won’t take part in a vote that doesn’t have that as an option. It could be a temporary walk out, or more permanent, or something in between. But if it happens, that decision should be laid firmly, very publicly, very angrily at the feet of English MPs and any Scottish ones daft enough to participate.

Not for a boycott at all. We need to be right in their faces. We need to expose that corrupt place every chance we get to show the people of Scotland just how rotten a place the UK actually is. Just look at the amazing work of Joanna Cherry, exposing the ferry corruption.

We might not be able to force much at WM as Scotland is outnumbered there 10:1 but our representatives there can make themselves right pains in the arse, so much so that the braying mob in that cesspit will eventually actually welcome the idea of Scotland getting TF out of that midden and becoming and independent state.

A WALKOUT for any effect (AND THAT WOULD BE LIMITED) would require ALL Scottish Mp’s to agree. It will not happen. Lib -dems, Labour and tories will stick to the british nationalist supremacy line. Can you imagine wullie rennies face lighten up trying to claim some sort of moral high ground at Holyrood?

To prevent SNP MP’s attending Westminster requires Independence. We don’t need sein feinn’s slight of hand to divert attention from their goal of a United Ireland.

O/T sorry

Did you all see Angus Robertson’s new website? Looks good.
http://www.progressscotland.org

If the media in Scotland did an unbiased job of actual journalism Scotland would already be Independent and we wouldn’t have to worry about this stuff

If there’s any real boycotting needing done it should be of Scotland’s media and businesses like Tesco, Morrisons and others who not only support the Union but actively engage in detracting from Scotland and openly opposing any advancement of Scotland

You’d think supermarkets and the like would at least try to remain neutral on constitutional issues in order to sell to the entire electorate, and it just shows how much some of them don’t even care, because they don’t believe people have the will to keep up a boycott

Well I do, and I do

Of course the BritNat MP’s from Scotland will still attend. Under the illusion that they are equal at Westminster, when we all know many of the highest offices of the UK state are now pretty much unachievable to Scotland’s second class MP’s. And even if they reach these dizzy heights they could not vote on many of their own policies (well they could vote but it would be ignored, many Tory MP’s already have had their proud votes dispensed with in this manner, it doesn’t phase them though, just the honour of sharing the lobby is enough to satisfy their egos).

And if they stay in line, returning money to WM is a known route, then the glory of ermine may be just a short step away.

I understand why some think it would be a good idea for the SNP to boycott Westminster. We are outnumbered by MPs from the rest of the UK and our representatives are derided and abused. However, if the SNP did do this, the unionist media would screech that the SNP are abdicating their responsibility to their constituents and would use it as a way to persuade people to vote for their parties instead.

Moreover, the SNP often say theirs is a strong voice for Scotland. They aren’t just lost in the sea of MPs as voter fodder like unionist MPs. While we are outnumbered, the way in which SNP MPs vote against nasty Westminster policies makes an important statement. It shows that Scotland is a different political animal from the rest of the UK. And it shows SNP MPs care about their country and their constituents enough to vote against such policies, even if it’s futile due to numbers.

My third and final point is that I think Sinn Fein has more legitimate reasons for boycotting Westminster. They view it as a foreign parliament with no rightful jurisdiction over Northern Ireland. They also refuse to swear allegiance to a foreign monarch. Don’t get me wrong. I also see Westminster as a foreign parliament and Scotland is indeed a separate country from England. But since we share the same island, sharing the same parliament holds more legitimacy for some Scots. And let’s not forget that the first step to union happened because a Scottish king too the English throne. While Scotland does have a history of suffering under various Westminster dictats, it does not share the same violent oppression and brutality that Ireland suffered under British rule. Hell, many Scots were active participants in this oppression and brutality.

I can see both sides of the argument but generally, I’d prefer the SNP to keep taking their Westminster seats. Until we leave the UK, we’ve got to play the game. It’s up to Scots as to whether or not we walk away from it.

Much as it goes against the grain, I think it would be a mistake to withdraw from the stinking sewer that is Westminster. These amazing folks who suffer on our behalf have to show everyone of all political persuasions that they’re doing what they – and indeed Nicola at Holyrood – were elected to do ie get on with the day job. They are setting a magnificent example of how the job of representing all their constituents and their country should be done and I suspect are gathering support and respect through their efforts.

The walkout in June 18 over the power grab was/is the most effective way for any SNP protest in Westminster.

Withdraw? Definitely not, just yet

We need SNP MPs at Westminster for the time when we have exhausted all possible options to obtain a referendum via Holyrood. Those options being the S30 process, a probable Supreme Court case on a consultative referendum, and an absolute majority at Holyrood for an unconditional referendum mandate (which is what got us Indyref1).

All those exhausted leaves a majority of Scottish MPs to get a referendum, or withdrawal and return home. We’d have to get a big majority of MPs though

Leaving Westminster in the full glare of the media with trumpets blaring would prove unpopular with many of our socially conservative electorate and is unnecessary. Better, in my opinion, would be the tried-and-tested methods used by the spectacularly successful Fianna Fail party in 1920’s Ireland.(I’m talking about building an unassailable head-of-steam for Scottish Independence here, not attempting to make direct historic parallels with Irish political history.)

FF made it its business to send reps to every corner of the Free State to talk to voters and present the Party’s case in person at public meetings; from 1926 to the present (unbelievably some might say) that Party has never really been away from the forefront of Irish politics.

Instead of sitting pointlessly in Westminster, rostered groups of MPs could be out relentlessly touring the length-and-breadth of Scotland on a rolling-basis putting the case for Independence at public meetings and in the media etc.Needless to say: all would return to WM for crucial voting duties. FF used rudimentary transport methods to tour, today we have comfortable coaches and aircraft.

@IBHood

Here’s another (current) Twitter poll on this subject. Evenly split at present:

link to twitter.com

Much of the groundwork for Irish independence was done by Irish nationalist MPs at WM (before Sinn Fein won all the seats and then refused to take them). It was a long slog for them also, but much work was actually done at WM before the event.

Withdrawing from Westminster would only be worth doing as a one-off “statement of principle” as part of the next Indy campaign. It would become a major talking point that would open up other conversations. But it would be an all or nothing act that would need timing because once the talking points have petered out, that would be it, and Scotland’s Indy voice would be diminished. Worth it if it helps get Indy across the line, detrimental to Indy if the timing’s off (and beyond Indy if we fail again).

I think they should stay until Independence.
Although the media try to hide the contempt shown towards our representatives, folks are not stupid and can see it. The British make the case for dissolving the Union every time they open their mouths to bray.
The SNP MPs seem to have the patience of saints to cope with this abuse.

They should stay,it is a constant reminder to all who watch when they are ignored and told to f*** off that the UK parliament is unfit for purpose.

Interesting topic for a Sunday post.

But – NO.

– and Sinn Fein have their own thing. Learning from others is fine, but don’t mistake someone elses fight for your own.

The SNP should stay and SHIT THE PLACE UP as much as they can – act like internet “shitlords”, but in real life.

When you are repeatedly fucked-over by someone – and this is an association you cannot simply dissolve – you stick with them, until the day – they need your help …

– gaaah … give me my heart pills …

– what heart pills … ?

Just think of the trouble Sinn Fein could be doing right now, if they suddenly decided to turn up. I think they have let a principle get in the way of an opportunity.

It is useful that Mary Lou McDonald made the point she did on the Marr show. We don’t have to do anything with it, just leave it in the air.

Boycotting Westminster makes sense in the context of Ireland but not Scotland. Better to stay and shine a light on the myth of British democracy and the shysters who have hijacked it.

Just imagine where we would be at if Corbyn and May’s puppets were allowed once again to have unfettered scope to deny the very existence of a Scottish nation. Our SNP MP’s need to be there.

Undoubtedly there is an existential threat to our country – Scotland – and we need to be avoiding any action which undermines our presence and constant reiteration of our existence. Unfortunately, we don’t have a body of water between our country and its predatory neighbour.

I think the question could be “what does Sinn Fein achieve by boycotting Westminster, and does anyone notice?”

And I think the answers are nothing, and no. So applying that to the SNP means that, basically nobody would care if the SNP permanently boycotted Westminster, even in Scotland it would not be an everyday topic of conversation in the steamie, and after a time many would stop voting for MPs that didn’t even turn up for work.

In normal times, abandoning Westminster would be exploited by the unionist parties for all the reasons you give, but these are far from normal times. What would be a likely outcome is an entrenchment of public opinion south of the border against maintaining the union with Scotland. While Tory and Labour politicians may be desperate to keep their precious union together – a significant portion of the English electorate are far less inclined and would be more than happy to see Scotland independent. We are after all, a terrible burden.

Should the SNP walk out of Westminster and call for a new referendum, this public sentiment may well prove irresistible.

Wow we must be winning hearts and minds.

A family friend who was formally a ‘staunch’ Britnat has now decided that she has had enough and will vote Yes in Indyref2 due to the disgraceful treatment of Scottish MP’s at Westminster and Brexit.
Like my wife she is English so a word of warning to the extremist SNP supporters. Ca Canny with the anti English stuff, many are on our side.
I also have English and Welsh relatives who would think seriously about moving to Scotland if Brexit goes sour.

On balance, probably better to attend than boycott. Any Scot seeing and hearing an SNP MP speak is exposed, over time, to the evidence that our MPs speak with reason and passion (particularly but not exclusively Mhari Black), and present Scotland’s case within the present corrupt Parliament with lucid coherence that contrasts emphatically with the hidebound, delusional nonsense being touted by Tory and Labour alike. The venom our MPs evoke is itself evidence that their case is stinging the two dinosaur parties where it hurts, and that they have no answer to offer us but foul, juvenile abuse.

O/T
Nissan have confirmed they will not be building the X-Trail in Sunderland. Uncertainty caused by Brexit cited as a factor.

Non-toxic.
I am very strongly of the opinion that the SNP MPs stay put.

They do take a barracking but get their points across and on the record as well as providing footage for circulation via social media to a much wider audience than the anoraks who watch the Parliament Channel.

All of this serves to demonstrate to the people of Scotland the deficit that exists within the HoC where Scotland and its legitimate interests are concerned.

Also the MPs are active, and effective members of the various Committees of the HoC. For example, Joanna Cherry skewering of a Government minister a week or so ago.

Then there are the contributions of individual members such as Alison Thewlis and Mhairi Black. The issues they have highlighted and fought for, often while the Unionists sit on their hands, are important for women across the UK. As such the fact the SNP are fighting for them gives the lie to those who try to paint the SNP as anti-English.

The presence of the SNP MPs in Westminster is hugely important in so many ways for the people of Scotland and the cause of independence. As others have pointed out their absence would leave the Tories with a comfortable majority.

They have to be there.

No one else will speak for Scotland in that place.

I can see both sides. A few days ago I posted this on the WDG blog.

The Respect Agenda: Westminster 29 March 2019

Speaker: “I call Mr Ian Blackford”

IB: “Mr Speaker I speak to you today, and to this House, with a huge measure of regret that the gross incompetence of this Government has today caused the UK to crash out of the EU without a Deal of any kind. We in Scotland have never before seen such incompetence and mal-administration in the history of this place. In Scotland we have become used to broken promises, every promise made to us for the 2014 referendum has been broken. Then we come to Brexit, an event that would not have happened had it not been for infighting within the Conservative party and a significant error made by Mr David Cameron to keep his party together”.

“After the Prime Minister initiated Article 50 in March 2017 she had already rejected a proposal by the Scottish First Minister dated December 2016 where we proactively put forward an option for Brexit. That was rejected out of hand and never discussed. There was then a farce as the Government appeared to have meetings with the devolved administrations every two or three months. It should be noted that on one occasion no Government Minister attended. None of our requests made to the Government are in the negotiated EU withdrawal Bill. There has never been an attempt to get a cohesive ‘buy in’ with the parties in this House or the devolved administrations”.

“During many debates in this House, my party is regularly insulted and ignored despite being active in a conscientious way with the business of this House”.

“Mr Speaker away back in 2014 the people of Scotland were promised that we were to be an equal partner in the UK. This has not happened. Nearly everything the Scottish Government tries to support, amend or enact is rejected. Where is the respect in our democracy, where is the respect within this House for Scotland and its people. Mr Speaker it is with regret that today, on this fateful day for this land, that the SNP members of this House will today depart and will not return. We have tried to work progressively without respect in this sham of a Union, this sham for democracy. Goodbye”.

The Oath of Fealty to the Crown for a Scot or representative from Scotland should be seen from the point of view of the position of the monarch in Scots Law and her Coronation Oath to rule according to the laws of her various realms.

In those terms she had given fealty to the people of Scotland which means our representatives swear their oath to us via her.

That is not true for MPs from the rUK which is why SF will never be in a position to swear such an oath without torturing themselves.

The existence of that oath is a travesty of democracy and arguably a breech of the right to self determination for those who would end the claims of a parliaments jurisdiction over their locale.

It’s a heart v head thing. Re “heart” I’d love to see them stand up tell them where to shove their stinking HoC and walk out for good.

“Head” then intervenes and says, in much the same way as has been said by apparently the majority above, that they should, for the time being, stay, again for the reasons outlined above. Too many ways in which a permanent SNP boycott could be used against us.

However they should, while obliged to stay there, use every suitable and appropriate opportunity to delay, disrupt and generally screw up WM procedures and make their presence there as infuriating as possible for the WM regime.

The Scottish people should be given a vote to repeal the treaty of union, being 1 of the 2 signatories of the treaty. Make a legal Scottish document, present in the commons and then walk out. The Westminster(English) government would do the same to Scotland if it was to England’s benefit.

The direct comparison of Scotland and Ireland is not valid. I am no one’s authority on either Irish or Scottish history. I know enough of Ireland to say that after the 1919(?) elections (for Westminster) they had a huge majority for Irish home rule and used that as the basis of their version of democracy. They did not take their seats in Westminster from that time. The rest is Irish history including partition. Scotland 100 years later faces different circumstances.

When Theresa May next says “Now is not the time.” As she will. Then the SNP group in Westminster should walk out.
Otherwise delay, disrupt and generally let them know we are there.

A few Parnell moments, necessary to get headlines and generally screw the place up.

No to House of Lords.

Commons boycott pointless at this stage.

ben madigan I have said in the past that i would like to see SF take up their seats ( just to shake things up U understand ) but I well understand SF standing by their principles . SF would be subject to the EVEL rules as are the SNP in other words ignored , ineffectual , & subjected to ridicule like the SNP MPs .

No, the MPs have to be there to keep and eye on what Westminster is doing and the committees are apparently useful in holding ministers to account.

I’m strongly against both the strategy of non-attendance (wouldn’t work here as our media would present it as MPS drawing pay without doing their jobs and we’d get ignored even more than we are ignored when we actually attend) and the atrategy of playing the Westminster game (obeying their archaic rules, taking our turn whenever the Speakers deigns to give us it etc).

What the SNP MPs MUST do (as long as we have a lot of them – may not last forever) is sabotage the workings of Westminster.

This will work much better, of course, after the Scottish Government has asked for Article 50 and been refused. So the Scottish Government should do that ASAP.

Then:

If the Speaker gives them the chance to speak they should filibuster. Start reading a novel aloud for hours on end. This tactic was used by the Tories against the first (now forgotten) pro- devolution Bill in the mid-70s (they read the London phonebook) and also used by Parnell long ago. I believe the rules have been changed since to make this tactic more difficult but an adapted version should still be possible.

Whenever the PM stands up to speak, the SNP group should drown her out, chanting slogans loudly e.g. “Scotland’s Voice must be heard!” or “Independence Referendum! Independence Referendum!”

If the Speaker throws them out and bans them that’s all the more (world?) publicity. The media would call it childish but that’s far better than being ignored.

If he doesn’t throw them out they should stage frequent walkouts. When they did their walkout recently SNP membership soared.

They will still be there on the green benches to act as advocates for the few individual cases (immigration, benefits etc.) which have come up against the reserved powers.

As for the non-individual reserved powers (defence, the EU, foreign affairs, energy etc) the Scottish voice is ignored anyway when we play within the rules. So we should play outside them.

That’s how we can make full use of our MPS down in Westminster.

As long as these politicians themselves really are still aiming at “settling up” with the UK Government rather than “settling down” into it.

Are they?

Just flicking through the comments here, I’d say a majority say stay – unless there’s a good reason to boycott. Boycotting the HoC needs to achieve something. And like some others here, I’d say that that something needs to be related to the dissolution of the Union, invoking the Claim Of Right.

Being so close to Brexit of course, brings other issues for the SNP contingent. Do they stay and vote for May’s deal to ‘save England from itself’ (and thereby triggering the Manifesto’s material change)? Or, as someone suggested, boycott it at that point, and leave them to vote on the final Brexit deal/no-deal question on their own?

Finally, I can’t imagine that walking out permanently from the HoC isn’t part of the indy2 strategy. And a boycott at that point, for that reason, is surely something I’d support.

Caught the latest British Airways ad.? Not one Scottish/Welsh voice or cultural reference.
Time we did walk away from this vile, oppressive thing.

The Yes movement to a man, needs to start a Refùse Consent To Be Governed By Westminster movement, then charge the Scottish government with dissolving the union.2 million signatures would negate the need for polling g.

I don’t believe the SNP should try to disrupt just to get up noses. They should represent Scotland and consider the effects on Scotland for everything the tories try and pass, amend everything that is bad for Scotland and protest every little detraction in the strongest possible way.

Gloves off. By backing the people of Scotland to the hilt and to protest every tiny thing by protesting to the speaker for every sleight, it puts everything on record that was said or done and the protestations reinforce the record that disrespecting an equal member of the union is also disrespecting Scotland and the union. As I said before, this disrespect is very easily shown on mobile devices during elections or referendums in the future.

We gift the Unionists a PR victory if we fail to turn up. Very like the EU case that you have to be in it to change it for the better. Westminster Parties (all shades of Tory) have “borrowed” SNP polices and that helps move things forward for everyone.

The Ghandi non-cooperation and many other models also exist but I wouldn’t support those either at present.

I want Independence by a political expression by the people. Although I fully respect and admire the stance of Sinn Fein it is not the model I would adopt for Scotland

O/T .

Theres something in the WATTER doon in Sunderland , knowing there will be 1000s job loses at Nissan & Supply chain some people will support a No Deal Brexit .

A clip with May walking out when Ian Blackford speaks, if it’s available…with the heading “Tories Turning Their Backs On Scotland” would go down a treat 🙂

Hmm, re progress Scotland:

‘head of research is Mark Diffley’

Re Angus Robertson’s project, I really don’t think we need any more analysis or programmes of research to see why people voted No. What we need is a declaration right now of a vote on Scotland’s status [Should a country govern itself?] to be held soon.

As Scot goes Pop has pointed out, there will be no move in the polls until there is a date for a vote – that is when voters will start to concentrate on the issues.

It can be a far shorter campaign than last time. Then it was a new idea and now it is standard. It will help if the EU citizens are still here and eligible to vote.

But I think the dangers of delaying – dark money, online targeting, dirty tactics, plus the further damage to people on benefits and people targeted by the Home Office – are too great to risk. Let’s ask at the ballot box what people think. We nearly won last time. I’m sure we would win if asked today.

SNP energies should be used to attack lies and smears.

Every chance in front of the camera should be a chance to point out bias and propaganda.

The media are no friends of Scotland. Turn the opportunities against them.

Treeza May never actually says she will “never” grant a section 30 order.

She plays with words because in the end she knows she will have to grant it in the very near future.

Her get out is saying things like “now is not the time”, which gets her off the hook in the short term.

Lets just end this “now is not the time” pash patter.

……..

UN:link to un.org

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

………..

Looks like “now IS the time”, to me.

Like the Rev, I don’t really have a position on this as such, except for the fact I’d like them to walk out if only to see the footage of the disarray the unionist parties would be in through the immediate aftermath. For a start they wouldn’t believe the SNP would choose such a radical course, and frankly I’m with them on that; the one time the SNP stood up and walked out it caused them absolute consternation immediately and their response ‘it’s just a coordinated stunt’ should have got a ‘no shit, Sherlock’ kind of response. Of course it was a stunt, and it absolutely worked. And they should do it all the time, and they should operate the Parnell method of playing them at their own game to your own advantage.

Yes, they’d be open to the accusation of not representing their constituents but, as you say, that’s a functional impossibility anyway when nothing they say, not even when all the other Scottish MP are of a common mind (which is so rare it should be under twenty four hour guard in a secure location, sadly) is taken seriously let alone acted upon.

Had they placed it in a manifesto and made it clear that being consistently ignored and belittled was unacceptable then they could say the constituents voted for them on that basis, but they didn’t, so they’d get hammered for it.

Mostly the primary reason I can’t see this happening is the absolutely obvious point that the SNP under Nicola Sturgeon will do nothing even remotely that radical or risky. The most risky option taken in her tenure to date has been asking (I mean, there’s the problem, really, asking) for permission to hold a referendum.

And they said NO.

And what did the SNP or the Scottish Government do? Nothing. Bar a few angry comments and some press column inches, sod all was done in response except to go back to Holyrood and forget about it for another few years.

I personally don’t think that’s good enough, but in the absence of any other viable political option for independence I’ll continue as a SNP member and voter regardless in the hope that they’ll eventually do what we all bloody want.

Because there’s sod all else to be done.

A more constructive independence vote for the English would be to chuck the Tories out of office. Leaving the EU isn’t going to help with their problems.

@ Everybody

Someone has started a petition to get the Republic of Ireland to rejoin the UK. Apparently if the petition reaches 100,000 they have to debate it in Parliament. So if anyone fancies signing it just for the entertainment value of watching MPs debate it, the link’s here.

link to petition.parliament.uk

Westminster and the U.K. Media, headed by the BBC, attack
Scotlandtd at every opportunity.

Anyone connected with SNP has their character assasinated.

I read in the Daily Hail today that Shnow White has joined SNP!

They go on to say that she had been holding captive some vertically challenged
Young men and forcing them into hard labour in mines deep in the earth!

One young man, Grumpy, stated that they work all day and get no pay.

Another has developed a sever allergy due to dust in the mines and Sneezes frequently.
It’s so bad he has to see Doc every day.

The work is so hard one of them is constantly Sleepy, and his friend has
Lost all confidence and now too Bashfull to speak.

Only one of the 7 appears to be doing OK and Confirmed that he
Voted for Murdo Fraser and the Tories at the last election!
We hope to tell you more about his exploits when Dopy finishes his shift.

Our link to the last of the 7 failed due to the poor reception in the mines.
We understand from a trusted source his name is Un Happy!

@Dr Jim says: 3 February, 2019 at 12:13 pm:

” … And they laugh at and mock Scotland every time they do it
If the SNP are to remain in the HOC perhaps doing the same to the opposition instead of engaging with them in debate and subjecting themselves and us to abuse.

That, though, Dr Jim, has already been their undoing. The more they are perceived to do so by the Scottish electorate the more of them will be voted against.

The Holyrood Parliament is becoming more and more seen by the general electorate as being anti-Scottish, pro-England and united as Westminster Establishment lackeys who follow whatever Westminster orders them to do.

What my old Granny would have described them as glaikit and donnert.

Speaking of the Scots word, “Donnert”, I was told by a friend from the USA that, “Donnert was an emeritus professor of nuclear engineering at Kansas State University”. Somehow in Scotland Donnert and nuclear engineering do not go together well.

Scotland should now understand that it is not an equal partner in the UK, that the threat to Scotland’s institutions and democracy is a domestic one. Scotland the region, protectorate, the colony, the suburb of Lincoln will have no control over the immense damage that Brexit will cause, but Scotland the country will.

Imagine wanting to support a parliamentary system that will deliberately cause a national shortages of medicines and make the poorest in our society even poorer, building on existing toxic domestic policies that have condemned millions of children and families to hardship.

‘The threat to the NHS and our public services has long been a domestic one – it called the Conservative Party. It is now time we put the distractions of Brexit behind us and concentrated on fighting the Conservatives. They’ve brought this country to the brink and its time they now paid the price…the NHS and the economy will not profit from Brexit. Brexit will not deliver the promises it was sold on’
link to nhaparty.org

‘Draft legislation on Serious Shortage Protocols (SSPs) has been laid before Parliament and should come into force in early February 2019. The protocols, for use in the event of a serious shortage of a medicine, may give community pharmacies the ability to dispense less, give a different strength or pharmaceutical form or provide an alternative product.
It is envisaged that where serious shortages occur, each medicine would have its own SSP which will need to be developed carefully to ensure that it can be implemented in practice’

link to psnc.org.uk

‘little or no progress has been made across the four nations on reducing child poverty and inequalities.
Indeed, after a decade of harsh austerity, economic hardship has spiralled in recent years. Following several years of decline, child poverty in the UK has increased year on year since 2011–12. Today, more than 4 million children in the UK—or one in three—live in poverty, an increase of 500?000 in the past 5 years. Strikingly, this rise has been driven almost entirely by the increase in poverty among working families’

link to thelancet.com

Re progress Scotland, I assume that the donations are actually paying Robertson’s and Diffley’s wages. So first £150k – 200k p.a. Donated is basically the wages of two men.

ot

Just a general observation on how better the site is again with the removal of the extreme trolls interrupting the site.

As with most happy to debate with brexiters and unionists but the past few months has shown how some view this site as their enemy and must be disrupted.

Simple answer is to walk away when the catcalling starts. The poms certainly would not like that and it would make OOOORRRDDDEEERRR look stupid.

I belive they should stay in Westminster as they are a thorn in the side of all who would deny Scotland independence. I stand with them every time the donkeys hee haw and denigrate them. They are doing a job which I would not do. So, to all our representatives in Westminster, a big THANK YOU from someone who could never stand the ordure (hey google it) that is poured on you daily in ‘that place’.

If I’m not mistaken, the opposition parties at WM have a budget funded by the U.K. treasury and Fluffy’s budget comes from our block grant.

We need to continue to use the treairy budget to undermine and expose the WM establishment. Fluffy won’t stop undermining us in the absence of SNP MPs – using our budget.

I actually think they should withdraw – but for specific demands, such as respecting the wishes of Scotland to stay in the EU.

It is all very juicy and good fun, when we see a clip of an SNP MP, make Theresa the liar’s time difficult at PMQ’s, or when Ian Blackford makes a great speech. It’s all very good etc…

BUT, and this really is the killer, it achieves exactly sweet b****r all. Great speeches, tough questions etc, are all great telly, but achieve nothing.

Those defending SNP MP’s might say, ‘oh, but you know we have put ‘pressure’ on the government on one subject or another’, and that may very well be true. It did however, achieve nothing.

They will always be outvoted, especially with Labour joining in to jeer the SNP together with their Tory chums.

I honestly believe they should have been withdrawn the minute Scotland’s vote to stay in the EU was completely ignored. That is simply undemocratic, and by staying in the HoC the SNP lend it credibility. Of course every now and then, the SNP are allowed to make a speech or join a committee or two, but that is how Westminster ‘manages’ difficult parties. Give them a wee say now and then, let them join a committee or two so they can feel ‘involved’ (but always outvoted). And, you know what, sadly, oh so sadly, the SNP have been taken in by it, hook line and sinker.

Aside from the constant insults, Westminster is just stringing the SNP along, but in reality, the Libdems, Tories and their Labour chums, really could not give a flying f*** what the SNP say in the HoC, no matter how eloquent their speeches.

No political party with a modicum of self respect would stay in a place that treats them with such utter, utter offensive abusive contempt.

Sinn Fein have the right policy.

Meanwhile, why has the indyref not yet been called? Oh that’s right, we’re waiting for over two years, to find just the ‘perfect’ moment, when everything is in our favour. Meanwhile within a few weeks, every Scot will be forcibly stripped of their EU citizenship against their wishes.

Robert Louis.

Simply put.

You are wrong =)

PQ web site fails to report the Labour Membership numbers fall.

RE the Buck House evacuation story and reports that The Royals remained there throughout the Blitz my understanding is that while they were in London during the day they buggered off to Windsor every night when the bombing occurred.

Robert Louis,

I understand the frustration, but a I said previously – the SNP MPs are not there to have bills accepted or any influence on WM decisions.

They are there simply to show ordinary scots that WM does not respect the wishes of Scotland, WM loves to poke fun at our elected MPs, and WM will never do anything that may benefit Scotland, in fact WM often goes the extra mile to ensyre that Scotland suffers.

The people are watching. An occasional walk-out is highly effective, IF it highlights any of the above. 🙂

AYE TAE ROBERT LOUIS