Dictionary correction
Posted on
June 03, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We’re stuck with the old version, before “pledge” was officially redefined to mean “lie”.
But we’re sure the Eleventh Edition will be out any day now.
Oh dear, I wonder what wee Willie Bain’s attitude to winter fuel payments is now?
A simple and fair state pension that enabled all citizens to have some dignity in later life is the answer. “Allowances” and “Credits” etc keep civil servants in jobs and marginalise poorer people – the future scapegoats.
Why does the state continue to pay a further 20% back to a higher rate (40%) tax payer when they contribute to a personal pension? There is no state admin cost in ending this – it is all done through self assessment.
The subject matter is mere political window-dressing – the test is ‘ does it save money’?
Oh dear, I wonder what wee Willie Bain’s attitude to winter fuel payments is now?
That’s easy. It’s to oppose the SNP’s attitude.
That link should carry a health warning. Still wiping spaghetti sauce off the screen.
If it is in Parliament its Ed is right
If it is in the constituency its Labour will fight to keep the winter fuel payments the SNP and Torys want to slash
Labour are morphing into the Tory party in Scotland, if you mix Red and Blue don’t you get purple. The colours of UKIP, they re all on a mad dash to the right to see who can get out the furthest..The Balls speech today is the tip of the iceberg, that’s why Lamont gave that softening up speech a few months ago. We have been warned.
O/T did anyone see the Scotsman article today saying that because of the UK government cuts we will now all be £600 better off because of the savings they were making, or something. I couldn’t quite work it out but it all seemd a bit funny to me.
Sorry to bang on about this but what I am comparing is:
Old lady fearful of “means testing”: Can get between £100 and £300 tax-free to help pay their heating bills if born on or before 5 July 1951.
Joe Bankster earning £149,999 per year: If Joe contributes £20,000 to his private pension he gets £10,000 total tax relief from HMR&C – a nice little earner. Of course if Joe were really up for it there are other ways to get even more tax relief.
What we actually need is a fairer tax system but that’s not going to happen if we stay in the UK, ever.
Watched STV Scotland Today there and no mention of the Balls Speech, They can be as bad as Bbc Scotland. Surely its got to be one of the topics for their referendum show tomorrow night.
Did I not read on here about a Labour MP stating that Labour were the party of the working and not the party of the poor or vulnerable? With emphasis on the word ‘Working’. To think that I voted faithfully for this bunch of charlatans!
What I want is a tax structure that allows the wealth generators to continue generating wealth whilst making a fairer contribution to the biscuit tin thus ensuring that EVERYONE is looked after in old age regardless of their background.
It’s criminal that Westminster allows big business to advise HMRC on tax. They know fine well these advisors go back to big brother and tell them how to avoid it!
It’s a fucking joke designed to screw the tax payer over.
The net result of this wealth grabbing is that our pensioners suffer and the poor get poorer.
FFS we generate 26% more power than we need in Scotland yet every winter pensioners die because they’re feirt to turn a fecking fire on!
If Scotland votes No the world won’t end but by fuck will I not entertain a single complaint from any naysayer when were pissed all over in Scotlandshire (that little region in the north) by tories and forced to buy health insurance because they privatised the NHS, or when they take away bus passes or even charge you or your kids £9000+ to go to university.
My mantra will be “You had your chance and you bottled it ya blouse, now fuck off out my face and deal wi it!”
The sooner we’re shot the better.
“Did I not read on here about a Labour MP stating that Labour were the party of the working and not the party of the poor or vulnerable? With emphasis on the word ‘Working’. To think that I voted faithfully for this bunch of charlatans!”
Yes – Tom Harris, seen on TV at the weekend bitching about how massively underpaid he was at just £65,000 a year plus lavish expenses.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
In Willie Bain’s constituency, the SNP were in second place with the Tories in 4rth. Thus a vote for the SNP would have been, well a vote for the SNP under FPTP.
Another lie on that flyer then.
Yes, he seems confused. Surely a vote for Labour is actually just a vote for the Tories (their policies anyway) and therefore the way to keep the Tories out, of whatever hue, would be to vote SNP.
The £100 million Ed Balls is trying to save is a lot of dosh but it would only buy you 25,000 questions in the house of commons if £4k is the going rate at the moment for a Tory MP.
Better value for money to maybe pay the £12k per month for a Labour Lord and get as many questions in as possible. This would make your £100 million go a lot further in terms of questions per £.
Sapheneia – well, your healthy cynicism is a breath of fresh air.
Maybe Willie Bain can hand out his redundant leaflets to fuel-starved pensioners come winter.
This can’t be that important – Willie Rennie hasn’t been asked for a soundbite yet.
Got a 5 sec mention at the very end of Reporting Scotland, just shows you what the BBC Scotland scum think of Scottish pensioners, absolutely nothing. They would rather protect Sottish Labour than highlight that Labour is going to stop their Winter Fuel Allowance. A Disgrace..what have Labour got to do to have a bad word said against them By BBC Scotland.
Hmm
Just looking at uniform swings from Labour to SNP under FPTP for Westminster.
Guess what, they generate SNP MPs. Rarely let Tories in.
Just Like first vote for Holyrood which is FPTP.
Right, for a uniform swing from Labour to SNP I see only 3 seats out of 59 where there’s a risk of handing it to the Tories ‘by the back door’ based on 2010 results.
If the SNP took the labour share sufficient to be ahead of them or took all their share when against e.g. the Libs, you are looking at 50 seats.
Vote Labour get Tory
Vote SNP get SNP.
@Dee
A Disgrace..what have Labour got to do to have a bad word said against them By BBC Scotland.
BBC Scotland is the broadcasting wing of the Scottish Labour Party (Unionist element). They have been for decades as well. You just need to look at some of their staff: Jackie Bird, Kirsty Wark, Catriona Renton, Sally Magnusson, Boothman, Glenn Campbell etc. They were as stunned at the 2011 elections as their SLAB buddies. 😀
Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrats? These are all figments of a dim and distant dream, but are no more. We have the Westminster Party now, which will fight tooth and claw to retain, in their eyes anyway, Scotland’s status as a colony of England. Sorry Britain. Well, would you sell your cash cow?
Just looking at uniform swings from Labour to SNP under FPTP for Westminster.
Guess what, they generate SNP MPs. Rarely let Tories in.
Just Like first vote for Holyrood which is FPTP.
But SS, you’re forgetting. If Labour lose a seat to the SNP, that does let the Tories in, in Westminster arithmetic!
/labour wonk mode
I know Muttley, will watch the FMQs preview show tonight, it’s on every weekday, mon-thurs 11pm bbc 2. Otherwise known as Newsnight Scotland…
But SS, you’re forgetting. If Labour lose a seat to the SNP, thatdoes let the Tories in, in Westminster arithmetic!/labour wonk mode
Ha ha.
In the past, before the SNP and liberals took an increasing share of the vote and the Tories collapsed in Scotland, a vote for the SNP could let the Tories in by the back door (in Scotland). However, that issue is long, long gone now.
Folks should be aware they can safely vote SNP for UK GE’s.
Just be careful in E. Renfrew, Edinburgh South and D&G.
Although I’m probably a little late in giving what is likely useless advice now.
😉
Question; if hitting your thumb with a hammer is painful, might it not be an idea to stop hitting yourself with the hammer.
Question; if watching the BBC is so infuriating, why turn the pish on in the first place?
I know it is good to know what the ‘enemy’ is doing and a lifetime of BBC perception management can be a serious habit to kick, but it can be done. What’s more, we have brave souls such as the Rev., who appear to have constitutions of toughened steal and who have volunteered to undergo the ordeal for us. I think it was ianbrotherhood who mentioned they had gone ‘cold turkey’ on the BBC recently, and felt much better for doing so now.
Is Scottish independence primarily a fight against conformity or convincing a majority that the minority views are correct?
The current economic and political conditions surely seem to play for both. As the Labour Party leadership abandons yet more traditional beliefs their followers will surely question their loyalty (or conformity). From the position of the minority, Moscovici said that the most important aspect of behavioral style is the consistency with which people hold their position. Being confident, consistent and unchanging in a view is more likely to influence the majority than if a minority is inconsistent and chops and changes their mind.
Hence the importance of the economic case for independence, social justice, tackling wealth inequality, business cases, Westminster waste, etc. Also, will the BT fear campaign increasingly falter as folks doubt their economic security within the status quo? Political parties abandoning long held views (e.g. universality) will reinforce this insecurity.
Cameron,,, that idea of ignoring the enemy has been put forward by many people, so Iam looking for advice from you to save my sanity. This is a straight question to you, do you suggest that the enemy should be ignored From now until the referendum ?? Or is there a time when you think we should start monitoring what they are doing.??
John Curtice on Newsnicht says Yes voters are tossers.*
* caber.
Or is there a time when you think we should start monitoring what they are doing.??
The time to start monitoring them is when you have some idea of what you intend to do with the results of your monitoring. If all the monitoring will achieve is to raise your blood pressure, there’s never a good time to start. If you’re compiling a dossier with clear examples of bias and misinformation, it’s never too soon to start. If you’re monitoring in order to complain about instances of bias as they arise, it’s time to decide not to bother because it achieves nothing.
Dee – I wasn’t being entirely serious and I did say it was a good idea to keep an eye on what the ‘enemy’ is doing. Now. But there is more than a year to go, and judging by a good number of the comments, some of the posters here might be risking their health if they keep tuning in to Auntie.
I know this is a site dedicated to monitoring media output concerning the referendum, so I was just suggesting to those risking health issues let the Rev. take the strain. That is the main reason I came here, as it allows me to keep abreast of what is going on, without contaminating my psyche by supporting the broadcaster. And infuriating myself in the process. You see, I will not have a TV in the house (mainly due to the BBC), and I am also wary of the radio, though hope I do not come across as being totally paranoid. I do have fun from time to time and plenty of security cameras dotted around the old mansion. 🙂
@ Jiggsbro
I completely agree with you there.
Cheers Cameron…. I actually started watching Newsnight and as soon as I saw that lunatic Curtis on, it was a dive for the buttons, that IS one guy I cannot give a second of my life to. Beeb still didn’t mention the Balls speech. Disgrace.
Curtis…..oh, you mean Krusty the Clown.
link to silverbox.com
@ Dee,
Newsnight Scotland didn’t cover the balls interview as London did that – the interview overran and balls got quite a roasting.
Things did improve after crusty did his animated piece in a Glasgow Street. Once back in the studio it wasn’t bad but very short.
@ Cameron: I’ve given up TV viewing. I still have a look at the programme schedule.
Notice how many English cultural/history programmes the BBC are running?
Henry V111, the Tudors, railway journeys,canal boating,the dambusters(!).
You’ve had the Olympics and the Jubilee. Soon to come celebration of the start of WW1.
Me,i didn’t watch a nano second of the Olympics nor the Jubilee.
They can program what they like, or who they like, but not me.
We’re about to get one about how tartan is just a load of invented Victorian hokum too. That was trailed twice tonight.
Perception management is what it is all about, and I’m happy with the way mine is at the moment, without TV and the BBC in particular.
Listened to both Scotland Tonight and both Newsnights. Simon Pia, ex-Labour adviser, was very uncomfortable with Ball’s speech. He acknowledged that it would do Labour a lot of damage. Balls was made to look extremely foolish by Paxton. Curtis has invented a new Scot, Caber Man. He is in manual work, sees himself as Scottish rather than British and is physically fit. My feeling was that Curtis was trying to link Scottish men who are pro-independence with Sun man. You know the type, works as a brickie, enjoys a drink and a bet and buys the Sun for the “burds”. It is an old tactic, implying that most Scottish men who support independence are knuckledraggers, but it also implies a hint of desperation. There are things happening behind the headlines which are not good news for the union, hence the desperate tactics. Newsnetscotland have a very good expose of the young people’s so called poll, makes for interesting reading and is an illustration of what the Brit. Establishment might be actively engaged in.
The dictionary definition of non-partisan may have changed today too. B/T education packs said to be as non-partisan as possible:-
“It’s less about our message. The first lesson is about referendums. We’re just giving them the resources. They do reflect our message…”
A fine case of doublespeak if ever I saw it! Need a new dictionary!
@ Bill C
Thank you for providing an example of what I was trying to say to Dee. I know that my veins would have been popping and the air around me blue, if I had sat through that same old same old. But now, I am stress-free yet have a thumbnail sketch of the events from someone who’s outlook I have some appreciation off. If anyone strongly disagrees with your description, then a discussion will develop which will most probably leave me a hell of a lot better informed than if I had watched the original broadcast. Oh yes, and I save on the license fee.
Sorry all if I am labouring the point, but if all you can do to support the movement is to chuck the TV, do it. Hit them where it hurts, stop paying the license fee that funds London propaganda.
Yes the BBC have had a glut of programmes with title ‘British’ in there somewhere, on radio as well even my young son noticed. Though we don’t have tv, just watch iplayer but that’s really rubbish now. Channel 4 OD hav some good stuff worth watching.
bbc bias and lack of intelligent programme making reeks of state control…state uk.
@Morag
Re tartan. This is a subject that I am interested in. (Sad I know) can you remember channel / time or was it one of these “forthcoming” trails?
The Dress Act 1746 is a wonderful document for dispelling myths about tartan / kilts. Amazing that men were deported to the colonies for something that did not exist. Also “small kilt” (modern style) was mentioned in the act which kind of spoils the story about it being invented by an Englishman during the industrial revolution.
Funny how you can get hung up on some things. 😉
I saw it twice. I was watching both BBC and Channel 4 at different times this evening though. I think it was BBC. I didn’t notice a broadcast date.
@CameronB – I know where you are coming from and respect your decision. Problem is, I am a news junkie, I like to see and hear what is going on, especially on all things Scottish independence, been like that for over forty years, too late to stop now. Seriously though, I think some of us must keep an eye on the enemy, especially the BBC and painful though it may be, we don’t want to interrupt them as they make their mistakes. Better to know what they are up to!
@CameronB
I agree with what you say about the BBC I try not to watch anymore and feel the better for it. But sometimes I just can’t resist it. Just like picking at a scab.
Tonight’s Newsnight was an example though I didn’t watch all of it. Tonight’s duty rodent (I can never remember their names they all look the same anyway) did his usual pushing the Yes reps about “when are Yes going to give us some detail”
Just one of these days someone should reply with. “We do it is just that you and the rest of the BBC ignore it and prefer to spout whatever pish Labour ask you to. And see that Boothman he is so far up Alister Darlings arse he can see the soles of Johann Lamonts shoes!”
Now see what I have done to myself. That’s it never again! Till the next time.
@ Morag
Thanks!
@ Bill C
I hope this does not offend, but I’m not sure I can support you there, sorry. I just think it is possible to keep yourself informed, without supporting the BBC, and it just seems odd to me that supporters of independence continue to fund the main producer of anti-independence propaganda.
A large part of the success of the US Civil Rights movement in the ’60s, was due to a wide range of boycotts organised against companies supporting the apartheid system. The same in South Africa. I know that the mention of boycotts here gets a lot of people hot under the collar, but is this not a perfect case for one?
Perhaps disappoint rather than offend.
There is no Labour party anymore, just Tory light or increasingly not so light. There isn’t a lie they won’t tell or a pensioner they won’t abandon in order to either retain or gain power. They are not the party of the working electorate or indeed any electorate. They merely exist as a self serving parliamentary entity. A people, a civilization is defined by how they treat the weakest and least able in their society. Labour or to be more accurate the One Nation party have set their stall out. Means testing, ATOS, PFI, Bedroom tax, abstentions replacing ethics. Labour as was only exists in small pockets of resistance within the party of the commoner. Yet for the most part even these poor souls would vote the party line in most things in the hope of some miracle which would see a return to times past.
I haven’t heard Mr Balls speech yet, but if as reported the line taken was to attempt to win over the right wing vote, then any no vote next year will result in political, fiscal and social carnage for the people of Scotland. At that point hard won services and benefits for the Scots electorate will be trashed wholesale. You WILL see the rocks melt wi’ the sun, as tuition fees become unavoidable in the teeth of savage cuts to block grants. There will be means testing, clearly care for the elderly will be a thing of the past. Council tax freeze? Don’t you know how much Trident costs? Then of course there is Scotland’s NHS. Any takers on how long it would be before its policy fell in line with its southern neighbour?
Make no mistake, this isn’t a possibility, but a probability based on just what we’ve all seen, heard and read from Labour’s and indeed the Conservative’s own releases. The people of Scotland can’t expect the SNP to watch their backs forever if they give Westminster the go ahead to run the show. Simply because the SNP won’t be in power forever. Even if the public tried to be clever about it and voted against independence, but for a continued Holyrood majority for the SNP, they’d have already hamstrung that government’s ability to protect them. They won’t see Labour return to old values, the Libdems are done as a force UK wide already and clearly we don’t need true blue tories with another set more than willing to make the same or similar decisions in the name of the greater UK.
Should we vote no next year, we’ll just have to get on with it for the foreseeable future. But we should be in no doubt that by their own admission BT and its Westminster parliamentary parties are offering no solutions, no better future vision only more of the same awful cuts we are already suffering and worse yet to come. There will be no take backs or second chances for some time to come. So to any casual visitor here, think long and very, very hard about the consequences of that no vote.
@ vellofellow I agree. What the BBC is actually doing is a kind of ‘stealth cleansing’ of Scottish history/identity. We have all woken up to the fact this has been going on in the background for hundreds of years. It has now gone into overdrive because we are a huge nuisance to them in their desire to put the last nail in the coffin of ‘Scotland’ and make us merely North British. They want Scotland to cease to exist, we cannot allow people to sleepwalk into that! I dont think that most people realise whats actually happening. Its not just the BBC choosing what to air or not it’s very serious ‘warfare’ tactics against the Scottish people. They want to erase our history and our country. They want us marginalised, controlled and any thought of us actually having our own country and identity erased from future generations psyche.
‘Stealth conflicts exist within the context of a world in which some areas are obviously marginalised by the most influential actors in various groups’. Countries can be categorized as first tier or second tier with the first dominating the second. ‘The world is now perceived as being divided into two historical time zones one for those with a history and one for those without. Those without are the marginalized poor: an ‘underclass’, who ‘at best are seen as useless; at worst threatening. These populations and their problems are excluded and segregated, ‘forming enclaves of losers and redundant populations, living in the modern version of ghettos, remote enough to become “out of sight, out of mind”, separated from enclaves of winners’.
I awake to find this wee fearbomb from the BBC. Its one of those stories that could spin either way but we all know the BBC to well to need to guess which way they have spun it
link to bbc.co.uk#
TMINJ –
you forgot this one to compare it with
– http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22758157
Two stories on NHS today – one in England and one in Scotland. See the marked difference between the reporting styles which just highlights the disgrace that Eleanor Bradford is. She uses the word ‘scandal’ in the headline and her opening paragraph – it’s then nowhere to be found in the English story.
She then also manipulates figures to make them read as badly as possible followed by repeating every accusation she’s made against the NHS in the last year just to make sure the reader knows that our NHS is shit, we are being ripped off and it’s all the fault of the SNP. Her story is so atrocious that she doesn’t need Jackie Baillie to back her up with her usual crap assertions.
Sorry, here’s the link – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22758157
Damn, done it again, my ability to hyperlink has gone – anyone else having this problem ?
@Weedeochandorris
“It has now gone into overdrive because we are a huge nuisance to them in their desire to put the last nail in the coffin of ‘Scotland’ and make us merely North British.”
O/T (related)
Well the BBC and others such as the Better Together campaign are going to end up facing in two directions at once because in the 2011 census around 60% of people in England identified as only English with another 10% identifying as English and British with the remaining 30% identifying as British, either only as British or in combination with another identity.
link to ons.gov.uk
So while being British is being pushed as the identity in the Better Together´s campaign this very same identity is being rejected at record levels in other parts of the UK. How the circle can be squared with this dynamic is one issue that´s going to grow in prominence in the coming years. Time Scotland stepped away.
The disconnect in policy, here Britishness, north and south of the border is once again at play.
Aye, “Shock horror Scottish Government dose something about waiting times” doesn’t have the same ring to it somehow.
to TMITJ…thats Johanns scripted topic\questions\rant\jokes sorted for this week then!
O/T
Call Kaye discussing politics in schools. Of course BBC’s blanket coverage of English history / football / period novels doesn’t reinforce feelings that Scottish matters are inferior and that we need nanny England to hold our hand.
And Herald reports George Foulkes has referred Iain MacWhirter to Ofcom on basis he is only presenter of the STV programmes on Road to Referendum tonight. But its OK for BBC Scotland to have partner of Labour MSP as its political editor and to whom the person responsible for referendum TV coverage is to report.
Interesting on the media. Herald prints positive story about independence, paper sells out in many places. What now? More positive stories to actually increase sales and possibly save the paper from going bust, or back to the same old Unionist spin and an early grave?
I think The Papers are turning in our favour. The BBC is a UK government sponsored organisation. (Imagine what the Herald would be like if the UK Govt said it was ILLEGAL NOT to spend over a hundred pound on the herald every year!) But much like the Sun who won the election for Salmond (LOL!) papers will go whichever way generates sales. They’re already moving our way and there’s still 16 months to go.
Rev Stu is very wise not only to advocate NOT buying paper copies but to also reproduce thier content to avoid them getting revenue through website visits. If we ALL keep this going they will turn faster.
Seems we’re going to get a new Carol Ann Duffy poem today, about the Queen.
Can she do any better than this? –
Three cheers for The Queen, her name is Liz,
She never grumbles or has a moan.
For sixty years she’s done the biz,
With Phil beside her on the throne.
Hip-hip hooray, we’ll raise a glass,
And wish her another sixty years,
Which will make her very old indeed,
But won’t diminish our cheers.
Her Queendom will always be one
So long as as she’s healthy and strong
And that’s why we’re better together
In a land where we all get along.
There is a piece on the Herald’s website about Foulkes complaining about the “Road to Referendum” programme, effectively calling Iain McWhiterer an SNP front and Iain McWhirter basically saying “keep this up pal and I’ll have you in court”
link to heraldscotland.com
Interesting that Alistair Darling wants to set up his secret underground army
“Former Labour chancellor Alistair Darling, who chairs the anti-independence Better Together campaign, is to speak at a fringe event of the Scottish Conservatives conference in Stirling on Saturday.
He will launch the Forces Together – a network of former UK Armed Forces Personnel and their families who believe that Scotland is stronger as a part of the UK.”
Men wearing short skirts: Maybe the Scots learned of such dress from the Romans during exchanges at Hadrian’s wall? And if so any claim that Scotland invented the kilt should be deleted from souvenir tea towels. Mr Starkey, esteemed British historian, if you are reading this, any comment?
North British: I first came across this expression some 30 years back when I took my kids on a “cultural visit” to London and we visited the British Museum. I think that was another milestone on my “road to Damascus” ref. independence.
Anyone have a video clip of Prof John Curtis and his independence Man definition? By accounts does seem like he has post-graduated from silly fool to idiot.
‘Forces Together’
Eeeuuuch. Always very worrying when armed forces become a political tool of influence. Last days of the Wiemar Republic anyone?
I would/would not recommend watching the Newsnight program from last night (Monday). It was absurd, offensive, comedic etc, etc.
“So who is this independence man?”
link to bbc.co.uk
I`m looking forward to the “So, who is the typical unionist?” Newsnight program. It won`t happen though, and we all know why.
Why is the Dambusters English?
Kirriereoch says:
4 June, 2013 at 8:04 am
”Well the BBC and others such as the Better Together campaign are going to end up facing in two directions at once because in the 2011 census around 60% of people in England identified as only English with another 10% identifying as English and British with the remaining 30% identifying as British, either only as British or in combination with another identity.”
jc says:
I seriously think this has only occurred since the rise of SNP and the serious issue of a split UK. When I left England in 1996, it was really rare to see a St Georges flag, and unless there was an England team football match on it probably mean’t that you were BNP or of that ilk. I have noticed when returning south periodically that English nationalism has grown as a result of Scottish nationalism. I have commented on another thread, that many English just don’t get it and there reaction is ‘ok f.. you then we are English and not british’. I really don’t think it was on the cards untill SNP rise to power.
Also I am not really defending the BBC’s anglocentric coverage and most people on this forum are going to hate me for defending the bbc, but I think it is a numbers game. There absolutlely is Scottish history programmes ( accepted usually done by BBC Scotland), and there is BBC ALBA which has lots of great content. But I think its just a 65 million vs 5 million game. Also if you look a the credits I don’t think the tudors is bbc production but a private production that I assume the BBC are paying to show. but if you commission or pay for a licence for a show guess you have to think ok 65 million viewers or 5million viewers? It may not be brilliant for Scotland but surely its a no brainer! I guess this is offset by BBC scotland productions like ‘a history of Scotland’ with that Neil fella and the one on Darien which was excellent.
CURTICE, CURTICE,CURTICE,CURTICE……..NOT NOT NOT CURTIS
@ JC: the Dambusters are English by a process of assimiliation. And what England cannot assimiiate yet envies,it ridicules.
So its curtains for Curtis, Curtice it has to be.He has post graduated nevertheless from fool to idiot.
Independence Man, a manual worker! So too are surgeons I suppose. The nearest I got to manual work was scratching my head over an engineering design problem.
Ever pondered on what Curtice does for a living? Seems he lectures on how to interpret polling results. possibly the wider subject of Statistics too. And his success rate on voting predictions? If manual worker Independence Man failed as often with his work, as Curtice does with his interpretations, he’d be on the dole.Still the EBC like Curtice – he keeps bobbing up!
According to Aristotle, father of European culture, all manual workers are “natural slaves”. Hope that helps. 😉
@CameronB,
Well said and I, for one, think that it helps.
And according to Marx all workers, including statisticians, in capitalism are wage slaves. Relatedly, according to Engels and the band, the Gang of Four, we are all prostitutes.
Sorry, it was, of course, the Pop Group not Gang of Four.
@ YesYesYes
I reckon Marx was a capitalist. He was obsessed with the interests of capital anyway. Anyhoo, here is short clip about Marx’s views on minorities, such as “highland Scots”. How does it feel when the ‘father’ of socialism defines you as being “racial trash” of a lower standing than the lumpenproletariat? Do you feel you should be exterminated because you are not sophisticated enough to be a capitalist? Does anyone know the name of the academic?
link to youtube.com
Just in case nobody watches that clip I just posted, or spots the click through link behind it, here is an interesting clip showing street interviews in Birmingham, asking for view on Scottish independence.
You might want to click through to the channel.
link to youtube.com
Sorry, just spotted that the ScottishTimes clip is over a year old. I don’t think attitude will have changed much though.
@CameronB,
Yes, he held some indefensible, even despicable views, including his views about the clan system. And if those were the only views he held I’d agree with you. In truth, as with so many in the nineteenth century, Scotland barely featured on his radar, and he spoke out of ignorance. He supported Irish independence but, even there, his support was instrumental, he believed that it would advance workers’ revolution in England. He was wrong about that, too, notwithstanding the huge advances in the labour movement in England and Scotland in the early part of the twentieth century. Best not to see him, as some apparently do, as some kind of nineteenth-century Nostradamus, though. Don’t know who the interviewee is, I’m afraid.
What I found interesting about your Scottish Times link is the way that, while some of the early views seemed, to me at any rate, to be quite enlightened and positive, as the video progressed some of the responses degenerated to the type that we’ve become all too familiar with. Mind you, this isn’t surprising I suppose. I suspect (and this video provides some evidence) that a lot of people in England haven’t really thought that much about independence. Let’s face it, they’ve got enough problems of their own.
YesYesYes
I don’t really know that much about Marx, I was just shocked when I watched it. I wasn’t suggesting that this was the entirety of his outlook, simply that it wasn’t that far removed from your stereotyped imperialist, in this respect. He was living and writting at the height of the imperial age, I suppose, and he just couldn’t take his mind of those interests of capital. 🙂
Re. Scottish Times. I hadn’t heard of them before and I was wondering if they are/were an known commodity. I’ve only watched a couple of the clips and the first one (the coming soon one), was reasonable. Might be a link for the Rev. to add up top, though the presenter opening the Birmingham clip wasn’t very well prepared. “Scotland separating from England“. 🙁
@Cameron,
I’m no expert on Marx either. I’ve read a lot of his work but that doesn’t make me an expert. There are a lot of people who describe themselves as Marxists, in Scotland and elsewhere, who’re not even aware that Marx held these views and that’s one of the things I was responding to in your post. Some of his critics blame him for the atrocities committed by Stalin, Mao Zedong, and even Pol Pot. Clearly, there’s a connection but for anyone familiar with Marx’s work, it’s a tenuous one. It’s a bit like blaming Nazi Germany on Wagner or Nietszhe.
While you’re there Cameron, could I ask you a favour. Was it you who posted a link to David Harvey the other day? I ask because I’ve been looking through past threads and I can’t find it anywhere. When you provided it, I opened it, listened to the first couple of minutes but, stupidly, I didn’t save it. If you still have the link, I’d be really grateful if you could post it again or, alternatively, if you can remember what thread it was on, I’ll go straight there.
Re Scottish Times, if I remember rightly, wasn’t that set up by the guy who used to run the original Newsnet, Alex somebody – sorry, can’t remember his second name. There was some kind of bust-up at Newsnet, though I can’t remember what it was all about, but I’m pretty sure that Alex X went on to set up Scottish Times. I could be wrong, though, wouldn’t be the first time and it won’t be the last. Until you mentioned it, though, I’d forgotten all about it.
Thanks for clicking the link.
2 June, 2013 at 7:51 pm
@CameronB,
Many thanks. It’s going to be a long night (smileything).
YesYesYes
I forgot to say, I’ve had to sit through some Wagner in my time, and I wouldn’t be so sure. 🙂
@CameronB,
Just finished the video. Brilliant! He’s a great speaker isn’t he? I wish we could encourage more people to watch this and have a discussion about it. If you listen and reflect upon what he’s saying here, it’s not only inspiring, it helps to put a lot of things in perspective.
There is a bit of snobbery among some marxists, though, about Harvey. Although some of them justify it with criticism of him, I sometimes feel that, in some cases, they’re envious of his popularity (some folk can be weird once they get the wrong ideas into their heads). But he’s someone who can communicate Marx’s ideas clearly, and in an inspirational way and, just as importantly, apply them to our world today.
You said you didn’t know much about Marx. If you’re interested, there’s a great (and short) introductory book by Jonathan Wolff, Why Read Marx Today, that’s readable and doesn’t assume that the reader knows anything about Marx. It raises some critical points about him (not sure if Wolff is playing devil’s advocate) and is as good a place to start as any. He does justice to Marx, at least IMO, but encourages a healthy scepticism in his reader. But thanks again for the video. Mind you, I shouldn’t have watched it so late, I’m all fired up now just before bed!
I haven’t had to listen to a lot of Wagner but I did laugh out loud at that line of yours.
YesYesYes
Glad you appreciated it. I don’t really know anything about David Harvey (geographer)‘s politics. I have watched a few of his lectures and can’t remember he defining himself as one. Perhaps I was making a cupper. Anyhoo, is he a Marxist or does he simply advocate an analysis of the global economy which employs “Marxist methods as serious methodological tools”? If he is ‘one of those’ though, perhaps I have Marxist tendencies after all. 🙂
He definitely help me understand the contemporary political climate in the context of the cyclical nature of political dogmas and bankers running a muck.
Thanks for the reference and the feedback. If I’m honest about listening to Wagner though, I haven’t done much either. I just like old jokes.
@CameronB,
I’d say he’s a Marxist who uses these tools. There are different schools of ‘marxism’, though as I said, I’m no expert. But IMO Harvey, in some ways, is part of a dying breed, in that he’s more what used to be called a classical Marxist, i.e. he uses Marx’s own works as primary texts and applies them to his own understanding and interpretation of modern capitalism. Younger generations of Marxists are less sympathetic to this approach today, they’re as much influenced by numerous developments in the twentieth century as by Marx himself but, being an oldie myself, I’m more with Harvey.
He’s not a dogmatist, or a tub-thumper, though. He doesn’t say to his readers, this is what you must think. What he’s saying is, ‘This is what Marx says to us. This is what I understand by it, but you (the reader) are going to have to make up your own mind’. That’s one of the many things I like about him and that’s the approach he takes in his excellent book, A Companion to Marx’s Capital, and elsewhere. It’s a very different (and longer) work than Jonathan Wolff’s, and of the introductions to volume 1 of Marx’s Capital that I’ve read, it’s one of the best (but not everyone has the time, or the will, to wade through this stuff).
IMO I’d say that all of us get too hung up about the numerous –isms that are out there. Nationalism is a typical example. I’m not a nationalist (though I’m happy to accept the term ‘cybernat’, I have my own reasons for that). But I have been called nationalist, both in face-to-face conversations/arguments as well as on online. But most people I know who are labelled as nationalist and even many of those who’re happy to accept the label, have political beliefs that are more complicated than just ‘nationalism’.
We know why Scottish Labour expends so much time and energy on stigmatising all independence supporters as ‘nationalist’ and using the term ‘nationalist’ as a pejorative, and exclusively associating it with right-wing politics, whilst conveniently deflecting attention away from their own British nationalism. But there are numerous examples of left-wing nationalism in history, Latin America is the best example, in spite of the caricature of nationalism that Scottish Labour tries to project.
All I’d say to you about Marxism, for what it’s worth, is that you should find your own way and not worry about whether you have Marxist tendencies or not. It’s like everything else, you only get out of it what you put in. IMO, it’s more important to read Marx, and read and listen to marxists like Harvey and take it from there. The other thing about Harvey that’s worth mentioning is that, by all accounts, he’s a really nice guy, really popular with his students and the general public, and I think that comes across in the link you posted. It’s not easy to be a marxist anywhere nowadays – in spite of the fact that even people like George Soros are advising people to read Marx! – but Harvey is based in America, a great place to study advanced capitalism but, in many other respects, not the ideal location for someone with his beliefs.
@CameronB,
Forgot to say that in the link you provided it states that Harvey did his PhD at St John’s college at Cambridge University. That’s interesting because the late Stephen Maxwell, former member of the SNP and leading member of the 79 Group, also studied at St John’s college, Cambridge University at exactly the same time as Harvey, though Stephen Maxwell was an undergraduate when Harvey was doing his PhD, so they probably didn’t know each other. One final coincidence, it was Stephen Maxwell who wrote the defining pamphlet of the 79 group, The Case for Left-Wing Nationalism.
OK, joking aside now. I started my training as a town planner in the mid-80’s, before the discipline had been completely ‘handbaged’ by Thatcher. At that time, students were encouraged to use “Marxist methods as serious methodological tools”, so I have had some experience of following Harvey’s advice re. social analysis. That was half a lifetime ago, so I can’t be certain, but I think Harvey was even essential reading. I eventually followed a different path to planning as I had no wish to become a facilitator for neoliberal philosophy (we are in the 00s now), drawing up plans for how to arrange the deckchairs and scheming up ways of how to ‘market place’ in order to beggar your neighbour.
I think I shall steer clear of further attempts at humour re. tendencies. It achieves nothing and I wasn’t even funny. 🙁
Re. Sorros. I wouldn’t trust that man as far as I could throw him, given his deep involvement with the US State Department and the essential role his money has served in every ‘colour revolution’. Oops, I think I am veering towards Quarantine now. 🙂
As I said though, thanks for the feedback. Visiting WoS is definitely an educational experience. Finally, I absolutely agree that everyone needs to read/listen to a bit of Harvey, as he seems able to describe and explain global issues on a understandable human scale. He does come across as quite a nice bloke as well.
link to globalresearch.ca
link to articles.latimes.com
link to crisisbalochistan.com
YesYesYes
I am ignorant of SNP history and had not heard of The Case for Left-Wing Nationalism before. Would you know if it has any similarity to the concept of the Right to the city?
@CameronB,
You’ll probably find this link helpful:
link to en.wikipedia.org
I don’t know what your politics were in the 1970s and 1980s, but the pages of the radical magazines around at the time, Radical Scotland, Cencrastus and others, were filled with these debates. There used to be a really good radical bookshop in Edinburgh in those days, First of May, in Candlemaker Row, where you could buy them and loads of other stuff. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’ve still got a few (very old) copies of Cencrastus in my loft. There’s also a good book on a closely related issue, the formation of the Scottish Labour Party (the one led by Jim Sillars) – Henry Drucker’s Breakaway. Useful link here:
link to en.wikipedia.org
You’re a town planner. Wow, I didn’t know that. Impressive. You’re right, this site really is educational. I can see why Harvey is right up your street (there’s a pun for you). Btw, do you still keep up with the geography debates?
I read one of Lefebvre’s books ages ago. Didn’t he promote the idea of rhythmanalysis in cities, among other things? Saskia Sassen also did some good stuff in her book on global cities a while ago, all that stuff about decentred territorialisation and the city as a site of production, the increasing incursion of producer services and how these are shaping global cities. A lot of this ties in well with what Harvey, and others, are saying. It’s interesting to contrast that with Manuel Castells’s approach, the city as a process, network analysis etc. If anything, though, IMO they complelent rather than contradict each other. Interesting too, to think about how the huge urbanisation programmes that are occurring in Asia, and not only in China, are going to re-shape global cities and the impact of these on the future dynamic of global capitalism, assuming global capitalism has much of a future!
I wouldn’t stop the humour btw, I’m always buggering things up in that respect. I think it’s got a lot to do with the nature of this interweb thing.
YesYesYes
My politics in the 70s were those of the right wing and getting the ball across, as I was a wee daft thing running around playing Sunday league football (Arbroath links, mid-January, sub-arctic conditions, crazy).
I started secondary school (on a bursary), in 1980, just after my political awareness had been sparked by the 40% ruling. You might say I have been against the status quo ever since. Still hadn’t figures out risking hypothermia on a Sunday might not be so bright.
I hope you didn’t think I was playing intellectual one upmanship, as now I feel like a bit of an intellectual pigmy. To be honest, I wouldn’t think of myself as a town planner, not least because I have not been involved in the field for over twenty years. And to my shame, you appear better read-up on the subject than I am. I can appreciate the concepts of the urban space as both process and organic structure though, if that is of any relevance, but I haven’t read the particular literature you refer too. I been focused in other directions (ehm), or I could just admit that I am lazy I guess…what can you do?
Thanks for the links and once again, WoS really is an educational space. You never know, there might even be European grant money available to the Rev., for educational projects. 🙂
@Cameron B-
Not to interrupt, just curious – were you ever a Patrick Geddes fan?
The man’s ideas were so radical, maybe he was (or still is?) a bridge too far for most folk here, but he’s always been very popular in Sweden – anyone doing architecture, planning etc has to study him in the Foundation/entry courses. (So I was told, about a decade ago, by a Swedish architect.)
His work is fascinating – the Edinburgh Review devoted a special issue to him, maybe fifteen years ago, and the scope of what he did is quite incredible.
link to en.wikipedia.org
ianbrotherhood
Ah, Patrick Geddes, the ‘father of town planning’. The school I went to was very much focused on Geddes and his work, though I only became aware of his significance to the Celtic Revival (?), here on this site. Well, I was actually given a link to an article on Bella I think, but I can’t remember who posted it. Re. the scope of his interests. Possibly one of the last great polymaths?
@Cameron B re Geddes –
It’s a ludicrous comparison, but…
…in Geddes’ day, people would attend public lectures by people like him, or go to see art exhibitions, attend the playing of some new music, and they did it largely as a form of intellectual entertainment. They didn’t have what we call MSM.
Then you look at what we have, in this First World ‘Developed’ nation, more than a century later – someone like Margaret Curran is deemed acceptable for one of the flagship shows on the State Broadcaster’s output re matters ‘political’?
I’m not quite as Lambrinied as I’d like to be, but have to excuse myself while my mind boggles…and if I knew how to do a very sad wee smiley, it would be right here – 🙁
I’ve no idea how I did that wee sad smiley, so I’m trying again….:(
It can’t possibly be that simple.
Can it?
(:()
ianbrotherhood
It might even have been you who posted the link, as I can’t think of anyone else I know of who is particularly aware of the man. Anyhoo, I think she is clear evidence that Britain has turned in to an Idiocracy. Not that I would want to come across as an intellectual snob, but I wonder how folk who fall for the likes of Curran, can make it through the day without the aid of a carer.
Shall I get my coat.
@CameronB,
Intellectual one-upmanship? No, that wasn’t my meaning when I said, “Wow. I’m impressed”. When I said I was impressed I meant it literally and respectfully. Town planners come in for a lot of stick but they do a lot of incredible work, much of it thankless. True, like the rest of us, they get it wrong sometimes but, as Ian Brotherhood has indicated with the likes of Patrick Geddes, a lot of them are very enlightened. In fact, didn’t Geddes have a guiding philosophy about town planning, something along the lines of a triad – preserve where possible, change where desirable, revolutionise where necessary, or something like that? I’ve always thought that’s an enlightened view of politics as well.
I’m sure in one of the Harvey lectures somewhere there will be a discussion about the things you touch on here about the city as process and organic structure. He’s says a lot in his written work about the relationship between the city and nature, how cities and nature, contrary to conventional wisdom, are not separate or separable, they’re part of the same process. The modern city contains more biodiversity than the countryside etc, not least because the latter is so manufactured and sanitised nowadays, compared to the pre-capitalist period. Back to private property and ‘ownership’ again (Jonathan Wolff is good on that btw).
Your memories of football remind me of a childhood football memory that has scarred me ever since. I played for our primary school and in 1967, I think it was, we got to the final of the Hamilton Cup against Drumbryden at Saughton Park. We got stuffed 6-1 and I’ve never forgotten the look of disappointment on our teacher’s face, Mrs Laidlaw, when the sixth goal went in. It was like her whole world had collapsed.
I like your idea about the Rev getting European grant money. You might just have given him an idea for his next fundraiser there (smileything).
@Cameron B-
Leave that coat where it is mister.
I’m still trying to work out how to do smileys, and you mastered that ages ago.
Curran?
We are all nothing more than dust in the tired eyes of Time…but Curran’s one of those annoying wee bits, like a fly’s leg, or a digestive-biscuit-crumb, you can’t get it shifted for a while…rub…rub…rub…
: followed by ) or (, with no spaces between the characters. 🙂 Just checking.
I’m just going to test this Cameron and Ian as I thought the smiley things could only be done if you were using a mobile phone. Here goes 🙂
Hooray! And thanks 🙂
YesYesYes
– preserve where possible, change where desirable, revolutionise where necessary, or something like that? I’ve always thought that’s an enlightened view of politics as well.
I can’t remember myself and I’ll not do a google cheat as I think you’ve pretty much got it. Possibly the ancestor of the “precautionary principle”, though I am way out on a limb there. I seem to have taken the concept on board though, as it would be a reasonable description of how I try to approach things. And I definitely see a lot of necessity around me, to revolutionise our relationship with the state. In other words Scots need to trade in their capped-out British banger, with its poor performance and unresponsive controls. They need to replace it with ….well that will be up to us to decide. Trade in a ex-colonial banger state for a bespoke state tailored to modern Scottish needs.
Do you really need to think too hard about it?
@CameronB,
Agreed but, as you know, some people, unfortunately, need to think a lot about it, some people even vote for Margaret Curran!
I only remembered that about Geddes’s triad, or whatever the actual term was, because a couple of years ago I bought a book on his work in the shop at the National Museum of Scotland, after the refurbishment – though I can’t find it now – but I remember the author(s) discussing it.
Btw, I’ve just remembered your “intellectual pygmy” comment. All I can say is, when compared to someone like Harvey, we’re all intellectual pygmies! Like others, including you, I like to put some things out there (little platoons again) and it’s good to talk about these things. But like a lot of us here, I’m just a lone scribbler whose read some books, thought about a few things, and that’s about it really. Now which David Harvey video will I watch tonight?:)
You forgot a space between the ? and the : 😉 which is ; instead of : but not with O which gives you :O
Those are the ones I’ve figured out but I know there are more.
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