Demand and supply
Posted on
September 29, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Daily Record, Saturday 27 September:
BBC, Monday 29 September:
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Gotta pay for it somehow, I suppose.
I’m starting to feel like I did on the 19th. 🙁
So, the poor and unemployed shall be ‘safe’ to enjoy their poverty.
Polling and sharing resources Tory style. And Blue Labour will match them. If only we had had the opportunity to ensure that these sociopaths couldn’t hurt the vulnerable ehh.
Still this way a poor person in Motherwell will have lots in common with a poor person in Manchester. Solidarity in action.
I remember the “good” old days when wars used to be paid out of “contingency funds”.
George Osballs should get in touch with Crash Gordon to see how to utilise contingency funds. Maybe there’s a specific card and PIN number or something.
When Tony Blair announced his Iraq War, Gordon Brown was asked “How much will it cost?”. He replied, “As much as it takes.” Nice to see all that pooling and sharing continuing as we launch into Iraq 3. Surprised to see a Better Together UKOK war while X Factor is still on, though.
Oh, come on, Stu. This is just ridiculous.
You’re implying that Osbourne understands what “balancing the budget” means 😉
I still cannot believe that 55 per cent of the voters in Scotland thought we were better off as part of the British state. I reckon the SNP have to tell the voters that they can no longer mitigate austerity, and that the deal the Tories/Labour are cooking up will shaft Scotland. I don’t see the point in the SNP continuing to bust a gut for people who have voted against governing themselves. It is time to take the kid gloves off, and say that there is no protection now against austerity. This remorseless positivity has to stop sometime.
What’s three-billion between friends when you’re in debt to the tune of one-thousand-five-hundred-billion. I mean, it’s only three weeks interest payments, so we must be able to afford that…… can’t we?
OK, so we have to freeze giving money to the citizens of the country, but it’s not like they are our pals, is it? Much better to spend the money with our arms manufacturing mates who bribe us with directorships and consultancy fees, than to serve the people we are meant to be here to look after…..
How many times do we get to say, “I told you so” before it becomes too repetitive?
@muttley79 “I reckon the SNP have to tell the voters that they can no longer mitigate austerity, and that the deal the Tories/Labour are cooking up will shaft Scotland”
totally agree with you, gloves off time. Let the No hopers learn what No really means.
Osborne’s got the look of a man who lies for a living.
I agree, when the cuts come again, I think that Scot Gov should protect NHS and education and full on U KOK for everything else.
No more mitigating nasty Tory policies when majority voted for them.
Aiberdeen Toon Cooncil is going efter a’ newly registerd voters in pursuance of ony past debts.
Oi! are you not supposed to still be on holiday?
Right, the net effect is to get those on Benefits
to pay the £3billion for the war on Islamic State.
But, the Queen could pay for it
from the change she has in her purse,
and she’s not the only one.
George could ask the Duke of Westminster for the £3billion and I’m sure he wouldn’t even cough.
Or, a whip round at Royal Ascot would do the trick.
.
The ruling classes are in the grip of greed.
Who will break their addiction ?
I still cannot believe that 55 per cent of the voters in Scotland thought we were better off as part of the British state. I reckon the SNP have to tell the voters that they can no longer mitigate austerity, and that the deal the Tories/Labour are cooking up will shaft Scotland. I don’t see the point in the SNP continuing to bust a gut for people who have voted against governing themselves.
Its the old head in the sand attitude:
” I believe that we are better together, coz it’s too risky to go it alone. Besides (wait for it): the Scottish government are good at protecting us from Westminster cuts.”
What is it about the word “unsustainable” that they don’t understand?
@Luigi
Agreed. The SG cannot keep mitigating cuts from Westminster. That time is over. If you do not control the purse strings you do not really have a chance. Hopefully, that starts to prick the consciousness of the No voters in the next 10 years. If it does not then nothing will.
Not in my name.
Apparently, the British government has clearly put its priorities across…
Surely its the pensioners that need to be kept safe in their beds? Can’t they pay for it?
I need a rant, sorry.
What the hell is going on?
Fracking without consent throughout the old pit sites in the central belt.
Going to war.
Benefits freeze.
I am on benefits, go on shoot me! They say I’m a waster, a layabout, taking something for nothing.
I’d love the £23,000 a year they say is the most you can get.
More like 5K, just enough so I don’t starve but not enough to keep me warm. Sorry you can’t get help with rent, poll tax or anything else. Get on with it. Lucky for me I get free prescriptions, oh sorry they may change that too. No don’t shoot me, I’ll shoot myself.
I voted YES, even thinking I might lose the 5K, but it would have been worth it for a future without these nutters running the show.
The puss in boots purr purrr, has stacks of gold , lets see if any of that ever gets used to help bailout the poor.
They will attack welfare until it looks broken and then sell it off to private companies like they did with the NHS. If you think it’s demeaning to sign on now, just wait!
Deprive something of money, run it till it’s on its knees and then privatise. Sell it off cheap (see George Osbourne about that) to family and friends.
NHS, welfare, pensions, think of the money they’ll get for selling all that, BUT.. BUT.. BUT.. the real money really comes in once they’re sold. £150 for appointment with your GP. UK Gov will give £XXXX billions to private companies for welfare and pensions and the only way you can make a profit out of that, is if lots of people don’t get the money they need.
Think of those kids in India climbing over rubbish heaps for plastic bottles to sell for food and you see the UK Gov’s vision for the UK while they Lord it over us.
How many people signing on at a VIRGIN jobcentre will it need, before the whole of Scotland wakes up.
Is this not going to put a dent in George’s plan to change his budget deficit of £107 billion into a surplus by 2018 ?
Just joined snp one more to help scotland
Next time all pensioners should receive Scot Gov mailing with copy of letter from DWP saying pensions are safe – end of!
If I had a mind to; and assuming there is a way to,
I’d pass on the cuts ONLY to the No voters
by whatever means.
Aaa-nd, I’d arrange for fracking to begin FIRST
in areas dominated by No voters.
.
They voted for it – they should get it.
That way, Independence wouldn’t be long in arriving.
@Oh dear, Oh dear
Sadly the British Brainwashing Corporation will attempt to convince people here that this is all very normal, like they condition people to think that Holyrood does not need new powers to create jobs (as they started to do yesterday). Being an integral part of the British establishment they will do what their masters want them to do.
Even with devo max we would be on the hook for foreign policy and defence and this madness. Indy was only option and still is. It is not the deficit that is scary but the debt. Currency options in round 2 of IndyRef need to be hardball – no to pound, zero debt, own currency.
John Swinnie should stop taking about the “Block Grant” and start calling it “our pocket money from Westminster”
They will be gone in six months, along with all the Unionist politicians in Scotland.
I thought you were on yer hols? You see that’s why I never take a break! Ye come back to find someone has stolen yer money and are using it to attack folks you don’t even know!
George getting even uglier.
If the Daily Record says it will cost 3 billion, you can multiply that by ten for the real, final economic cost. Then there is the human cost – hundreds of innocent lives are about to be lost.
I wonder how long the BBC could ignore massive anti-war demos. They would try to blank it out as long as possible, no doubt.
Agree we should pass on cuts to folk BUT the BBC will blame the SNP government.
Until we get rid of them it will always be an uphill struggle.
There was a tweet from a stupid wee lassie, I voted No but as long as I get my free tuition I’m OK.
Make everyone earning over ?£100k or with savings of?? pay for everything, prescriptions, eye tests, tuition fees, the lot.
They are tory voters anyway.
We still want to keep enough folk onside until the GE.
@Tartan Tory, I don’t think saying “I told you so” can ever become too repetitive.
There’s no need to be nice to the 55% for as far as I can tell they are a bunch of ruthless b@stards who voted to kill men women and children including babies.( too harsh?)
Is there anyone who votes for a warmongering nation expecting it not to go to war?
I’m open to contradictory trains of thought on the matter.
Gloves need to come off from the SG. I want to hear some statements of intent soon re what’s happening/not happening in wm.
I might not hear or see it as I’m not listening to ebc
B.S. anymore but I want to know it’s happening.
Ach, I’m more than a bit angry at it all and maybe I’m being a bit unfair.
Anyway, I’m away to do the school run.
It would be nice if the SG could set up new Scottish bank, repatriate our billions from Bank of England to it and use them to fund new currency. (more depositors welcome too!)
See the next time we have a protest, can we have it outside Gordon Brown’s house or/and the Daily Record’s offices
@Nation Libre
There are armed police outside Dr Brown’s house. Apparently he has been deemed valuable or something
It feels like since the vote, we are just eating shit every day. This £3 billion is an absolute load of crap – it will cost more than that for the fuelling of the jets! The first air strikes have been described as useless by those on the ground, hence the warning it needs “boots on the ground”. We keep bombing them, the IS recruitment campaign goes into overdrive. They have called on all jihadis around the world to work with them, which means home security is threatened.
Its beyond insanity, billions of pounds to kill woman and children
and the odd extremist. Totally disgusted with the im ok no voters.
Cheery messages today!
Does anybody know who Labour are planning to put on Smith’s commission? I have seen talk that Labour and the Tories are looking at the Tory plans for extensive tax devolution and Labour’s plans for a fair chunk of the DWP to come over to the Scottish Government but it seems remarkable that they can come to an agreement before the commission meets and Labour has chosen anyone….would have thought it would also annoy Tomkins, who presumably wants to have his tuppence worth and introduce Slovenian as our new national language 😉
They should explain fully how the wars are to be funded in future,and if it can’t be afforded,then war should not be an option except in defence. These bombings are not in defence of ourselves no matter how they put it.
@HandandShrimp
I can see the Tories and Labour being unable to even do a deal over more powers. Labour want to protect their Scottish MPs at all costs. They apparently did not see the Tories knife coming from behind their back. If there is no deal then SLAB and the Tories are finished in Scotland, no doubt about it. If there is a deal it will be a disaster for Scotland, it will be nowhere near Devo max, despite what Jackie Bird and the rest of the BBC stooges say.
SG should promote how our “share” could be better used – social housing, replacing hospitals & health centres, apprenticeships etc etc
While tempting to punish the No voters we need to remember most did not vote for this – they’re expecting something better, just like the rest of us. Well, apart from a few nutters but there’s no reasoning with anyone who thinks bombing Middle East countries is a good thing…which apparently includes ALL the WM parties now.
Muttley
It will be an interesting few weeks and Brown and Cameron have raised expectations with talk of Home Rule. Painting the target on Labour MPs’ behinds even more clearly.
O/T, the SNP should declare making Scotland an independent country as part of their manifesto for the GE 2015.
No need for referendums, the Tories didn’t have a referendum to impose austerity, they just said they would “make work pay” in their manifesto. The Labour party didn’t have a referendum when they imposed ATOS on ill benefit claimants.
Time to make a stand and fight for our independence, for NO-ONE was ever given independence. Comments from Frankie Boyle’s BBc i-Player, ” Just LET them go!”. We will have to fight and make no mistake it will not be pretty!
@macandroid – I agree with that I posted an article somewhere from Forbes, I think with lots of practical suggestions on how to stablilise Scottish currency.
There we go, FFA is the Conservative position for Smith’s commission.
link to newsnetscotland.scot
I agree that the SG will have no option now but to rise taxes and/or make more cuts. The BBC-MSM will no doubt try to lay the blame on the SG, but it all depends on how and when these are done. The cuts/taxes have to be introduced very slowly but surely, otherwise it just looks like revenge on the people for voting NO.
I am confident that the SG will work extremely hard to protect the vulnerable and mitigate against the worst affects of the coming austerity measures. As long as the SG is seen to be competent and dedicated (as it has been up until now), people will know who is really to blame.
People will usually put up with some financial hardship, but they will not suffer gross economic incompetence. This is why Labour will struggle to be re-elected in 2015, and 2016.
And Home Rule is Labour’s position for Smith’s commission.
Shouldn’t take long to get agreement on that.
“Well, apart from a few nutters but there’s no reasoning with anyone who thinks bombing Middle East countries is a good thing…which apparently includes ALL the WM parties now.”
It always did include *ALL* Westminster Tory Parties (Conservatives, Libs, Labour…, they’re all Tory parties these days).
And the No votes either voted for this, or really were “too stupid” to see what Westminster was going to do in their name and to them.
Does anyone know how the folks in the military voted? I’d expect that that would be an *interesting* result.
cynical lowlander says:
29 September, 2014 at 3:14 pm
There we go, FFA is the Conservative position for Smith’s commission.
link to newsnetscotland.scot
This is bound to be tied up with Englsh votes for English laws.
I think I can hear a few Red Tory bricks dropping:
Plop!
Look on the bright side. Top brass starts unwinnable war with who knows how big a suicidal death cult BUT they then have to pump even more billions into teamGB homeland security.
So next round of suicide bus and tube bombers don’t trouble Westminster and its good times all round for spooks, NSA, even more surveillance, UKOK loyalty, lots more service personnel funeral marches and on it goes.
How hard can these maniacs in Whitehall actually spy on us anyway, car bug GPS, mass phone tapping, cameras everywhere, UKOK brainwashing BBC/media stuffed with far right shills and thats just right the now
I think the Labour Turkeys in Better Together now realise that they just voted for Christmas.
Ho Hum.
@ cynical
“…a Scottish parliament will be raising and spending all of its own money.”
Not FFA unless we have control over all revenue streams. I’m not sure that’s what he is saying.
@Macandroid at 2.26 “Next time all pensioners should receive Scot Gov mailing with copy of letter from DWP saying pensions are safe – end of!” Exactly. I had the same thought, only I would send it to all pensioners now with an explanation of why the No side LIED to them.
Jings, that was short two-week break. Can’t help yourself, can you?
Utterly disgusted at this, but not surrprised. After all, it is warmongering Westminster we’re talking about, and the only income they can control is the welfare/benefits system.
Trying to control any other income would upset the apple-cart too much so yet again the poor and vulnerable are the whipping boys for the rich and powerful.
But hey, that’s what we voted for, eh?
SICK
CRUEL
UNECESSARY
WESTMINSTER POLICY
Absolutely disgraceful. As Tony Benn said’ if there’s money for war then there is money to help people’ I agree wholeheartedly
Haven’t we be told that no people have ever been bombed into submission, no matter how heavy or protracted he bombing?
How can anyone, anywhere, seriously believe that Miliband has any chance of getting into No 10?
Check this out. Extraordinary. The guy is off his rocker.
link to youtube.com
Alex Neil did a pensions letter for NHS staff and got pelters from UKOK and MSM as not happy it was done during purdah apparently. Correcting lies is not playing fair according to them. Britania waves the rules.
WESTMINSTER causes great suffering.
BOMBING
FINANCIAL RECKLESSNESS
HARASSMENT OF THE NEEDY
SHAME ON WESTMINSTER.
I think it is getting pretty close to a time when the Scottish Gov needs to challenge the establishment. The bbc would be a good place to start, say make it that no individual or household can’t be taken to court for refusal to pay the tv licence. That would get plenty of airtime, which SG could use to ensure people new how they had been lied to. They could pass a bill making permant the Scottish parliment as promised in the VOW. They should start all conversations regarding new powers by reminding people that we were promised devomax/homerule and that they intend to hold WM to those promises within the time limit given by WM. All would be challenged.of course but would get a hell of a lot of airtime.
OT
This petition should have a million signatures on it, not less than 25,000.
link to thepetitionsite.com
link to rt.com
Sums the economy up really
Special banker tax to pay for this valiant adventure? £1m per head?
@Ian Brotherhood
Holy shit! That’s not a human, it#’s either an alien or a robot. I’d plump for alien. Osborne is an alien too.
Agree the SNP should point out where the oil money is going and put the cuts in telling folk “this is what you voted for”
Except the BED ROOM TAX.
That only effected the disabled. and they are getting hammered hard enough to the point it could be view as assisted suicide.
Heedtracker – is that a challenge? ( joking)
Colin Church didn’t see that from Alex Neil but the RCN sent a letter ( long before the Ref) regarding the pay rise or lack of down south. It clearly stated the Scottish Govt would implement the recommendations as opposed to the divisive nonsense down south .
Any member of the RCN had it straight from the horses mouth which way the NHS down south is going.
@Alex Clark –
This one’s worth watching too, if only for Jon Snow’s face – it’s as if he’s thinking ‘who the fuck is this character, and what is he on about?’ –
link to youtube.com
Jamie
I think the problem is that there are just too many petitions at the moment. I signed one regarding the BBC but it had way more signatures than that.
There also seems to be at least three if not four separate alternative media groups setting something up. Again we need to concentrate our energies and pull these together to make a good thing.
The driving forces behind warminister.
Self-interest
Corporate sovereignty
U.s.a.
Military industrial complex
Labour’s policy of being tougher on welfare than their partners, the Conservatives, will enable them to escalate the war effort should they get into power.
Golfnut
Something along those lines is needed. SNP need to come out fighting and not wait to get shafted by the Smith commision.
Oh Scotland, what have you done?
Molly,
link to news.scotland.gov.uk
The good old UK. It’s all about being Better Together, didn’t you know?
Ian Brotherhood.
WTF is he for real???
I never watch tv and only pick up things on Wings and the like. i knew Milliband was a di** but wow. like listening to a stuck record.
He cannot be Primeminister EVER.
Well old George boy has told the middle class the psudo middle class and the pensioners how he is going to gut them financially. To show his appreciation for voting NO and let them see who holds the whip hand and purse strings in the Scottish colony.
The middle class will shrug their shoulders and wor their tax relief to death. The psudo middle class will rage get poorer and blame SNP. The poor pensioners will just have to lump it and moan.
The NHS will be privatised, the middle class won’t mind. The psudo middle class will suffer along with the pensioners and the rest of us. VOTING NAW REALLY WIS A GREAT IDEA, FOR THE REAL MIDDLE CLASS.
We have the worst set of politicians to choose from in my lifetime. Snp/Greens/SSP are in a league of their own.
What a choice we get.
Bill, Ben or Weed.
I despair
Ours not to reason why, ours but to do and die….
How on earth is a poor arms manufacturer down on his uppers to make an honest living? Luckily our Weir Group board persons are on the case, George Robertson and Lord Smith of Kelvin.
Knew you couldn’t keep up this holiday mallarkey!
I think I heard that he was going to tax children’s pocket money and that some popular pavements will have tolls , like Buchanan street etc , same with public parks , and fresh air, and sex, and laughter , and happiness , but only if you are on benefits .
Yeah, but, but the VOW, I mean they wouldn’t break that would they? What about reconciliation and all of us living together in a big better together world, with sunshine and good things and maybe even unicorns?
Surely NO meant yes to all that. What do the brown people think about us bombing them? Don’t they realise it’s for their own good and that the union flag is a sign of fair play?
I don’t think I want to play with the unionists anymore.
And as if WM Tory cuts aren’t bad enough, apparently there’s an article in the Scotsman saying that Aberdeenshire Council are actually hunting down people to pay the Poll Tax after they registered for indy ref vote.
I remember having this worry at the time that folk who’d previously dropped off the electoral register and now registered, would be hounded by any unionist led councils for missing poll tax arrears. (The missing millions =£ms)
If I remember rightly, there is no statute of limitations thingy re poll tax, and it can be chased up forever more, but did Kenny McAskill not do something about the law re chasing pt arrears?
At least Tommy Sheridan’s still around and now in SNP, maybe SG could make it illegal?
Unbelieveable. yesscotland.net still not updated at all, to say “thank you for all your support, the fight goes on”.
@ Macandroid @ 3:24
We can interpret it as such.
OT: Iain subGray has just been appointed as a member of Labours powers commission team. Lord help us all.
In 2005, a a one-off, I voted Lib Dem as they were the only party to oppose the Iraq war. Naively I thought that most other people would do likewise, as what could be more important than a war being started in your name against your wishes?
But I overestimated the nation (and would do so again this year). The sad truth is that so long as they are not personally affected, most people (in Scotland as much as rUK) couldn’t care less about the murder of innocent foreigners.
Appealing to people’s better natures is an uphill struggle.
The politicians who voted for this new exercise in state violence know that innocent people will be killed but they go ahead and do it. We need to make it clear to whoever will listen that we are opposed to this killing. The middle eastern countries have to sort out their own problems. Apart from offering humanitarian help the British have no useful part to play.
We need a Scottish Alliance with the SNP/Greens and SSP. It would be targeting the Labour seats and bring together most of the 1.6 million of us who voted YES.
But i think the Snp will just go about working the way they have . Still you never know, they have many new members to listen to and they will not stay silent long.
Cuts , War and much much more on the way.
We could have been energised and raring to go , building a fair and more prosperous nation. Instead , barely a week later and theres oil aplenty for WM to steal, a war without out any real plans, welfare having even more cuts and a list of promises being flung on the back burner till they can be bothered .
NO voters you have shamed this country.
But you can still save this country .
If you can be bothered.
Heard they buggers I.S. are not playing the game, instead of travelling in convoys they have decided to split up and use motor cycles. A multi-million dollar jet chasing motorbikes around the desert.
They should just stand in a big crowd waving their flags, that would be much fairer.
An independent Scotland would be no friend of Israel. While so many issues remain coloured in grey, heading into the referendum on Scottish independence, this one should be viewed as black-and-white. Over the past decade, Scotland’s First Minister – and the architect of Thursday’s historic referendum vote – Alex Salmond, has consistently presented an anti-Israel agenda to the people of Scotland.
link to caltonjock.com
@bobdog collie: yes, we’re also to get a microchip implanted in our brains. Sensors will deduct 2p out of our bank accounts every time we walk past a lit street light.
Creag an tuirc, he’s only been appointed so they have someone to go and get the sandwiches.
And after the ideological war of the past several weeks where the power of the media and establishment buffoons like Brown were unleashed to play the cards of fear, and subservience to British ‘power’, WM now rush in to actual war. Still, I’m sure Osborne and the rest are really pleased with the symmetry and balance of a 3 billion pound war bill and a 3 Billion pound welfare cut. In their twisted logic they’ll probably argue bombing doesn’t cost the State a penny.
Sod crunching the numbers perhaps a huge crowd marching through east renfrewshire with placards saying “frack here first, we won’t oppose you” or dear suicide bombers, these people are your enemies,, or” dear Nicolas” please raise income tax by 17p in the £ for east renfrewshire only
That might just get their attention
yesindyref2 says:
29 September, 2014 at 4:55 pm
Unbelieveable. yesscotland.net still not updated at all, to say “thank you for all your support, the fight goes on”.
This is really weird. At least all the YES activists could have been emailed, thanked and encouraged, but it’s like they just gave up, switched the lights off and went home.
The people themselves have sprung to action. However, YES Scotland does have valuable information (contact addresses etc) that could have been passed to groups willing to carry on with the struggle.
At least 1.3 million people signed the pledge – we need to contact them in our objective to vote out as many unionist MPs out possible, in 2015.
YES Scotland could have hung about for at least a few more months to coordinate the fight back. Pity they all went home.
Just got back to Saudi on Thursday after the boom, bust and hopefully boom to come of the referendum vote, only this time with my wife and 14yo kid in tow. Security has just been beefed up on the way into the camp, we now have an AK toting Saudi Army checkpoint before we get to the camp gates. Feeling a little more uneasy this time round than I was in the Basrah area last year.
In the time that the SNP have left until the next Scottish elections, what new laws or reforms would the forum like to see introduced?
my starters for 10: –
work with our Yes partner, the green party, to introduce a land value tax.
Work in conjunction with our Yes partners to introduce a land reform bill.
In addition I’d like to see them start a number of hare’s running aimed at assuming powers, rather than waiting for them. Also start calling in experts from our Yes partners, when taking about reform and change as supportive background.
All that, plus equitable distribution of the forthcoming cuts; sorting out the press and the EBC, should keep them busy.
PS 45% wanted change – time the SNP government started to shake the tree a bit harder and examine what of the 55%falls out in the way of vested interests, duplication and waste.
Over to you guys.
The Yes Scotland Facebook page still seems to be around and it was redirecting people to the Yes parties and the RIC. Yes Scotland themselves haven’t posted anything in the last few days but they posted a lot of stuff in the week following the vote. People are still using the page and commenting. I’m guessing Yes staffers have gone though.
Better Toge…
No, no we’re not are we?
Well 55% voted for this.
dramfineday
1 Decriminalising the non payment of BBC tax.
So this is pooling and sharing. “We” (not in my effin name) pool the bombs and share them with the Iraqis. Astonishing!!!
I’m afraid as far as YES Scotland goes, the light is on but nobody is home. YES Facebook and twitter account hasn’t been updated in days. Stephen Noon’s last twitter entry was days ago but Blair Jenkins retweeted earlier today. I was afraid of this happening, the abandonment, not capturing the spirit of the independence movement and progressing with it.
It would be good to continue YES Scotland and morph it into the YES Alliance, even if the website and social media aspects were staffed by volunteers or part-timers to begin with. You can tweet Blair Jenkins at:
link to twitter.com
We need to start building the foundations of the YES Alliance.
I see Labour have nominated Iain Gray as their man in Havana (or the Smith Commission) plus a Labour MP. Brown perhaps or maybe the eggman.
I see Iain Gray and some other nameless rapidly retreating/hiding British Labour party nominee have been appointed to to Lord Sniff of Kelvin’s commission. He has a majority of 151 in East Lothian, so, Labour can’t find any “big hitters” to put their case. Have they actually got any? A big-hitter or a case?
Time to get rid of all this crap. Time to be our own people in our own country.
Oh well, nothing can be done. More that 2.6 million people in Scotland fully support this.
And don’t let them tell you they don’t.
Are we Better Together yet?
When does it start?
The three billion was muttered more or less in the same breath as the need for HS2.
Guys and Girls.
If Yes Scotland have just packed up and left , who is going to marshal the troops ?. We need a bigger more concerted effort now . It worries me that we will have so many groups we could end up trying to preach to each other.
We need to be organised to take on Labour especially as they have their die hard core voters quite willing to spread shit about. A concerted effort by all will drown the shysters out.
I had no love for YES Scotland but respected the fact they brought many groups closer together.
Thy can’t just call it quits can they ?
Do you remember when the Nay Sayers got all “you are so bullying business to not say anything about independence”?
link to theguardian.com
While we wait for first news of incinerated Iraq civilian collateral damage via the RAF
link to shetnews.co.uk
“These people were inspired to vote Yes not because they wanted Scotland to be independent for the sake of it, but because it offered hope of a better future – one that is not represented in the mainstream media, or by the mainstream political parties.”
These are the bad times.
Info mostly going to the converted, here, FB etc.
Reach the people that don’t have internet FB?
They’re non the wiser, it’s not on the telly/papers so it isn’t real.
Fascinating documents on Jim Murphy released by wikileaks via Bella Caledonia twitter:
link to search.wikileaks.org
American spooks in 2008 called Murphy ‘an up and coming Labour leader’ … eek!
link to twitter.com
I see Iain Gray has been appointed to be one of SLAB’s representatives on the Smith Commission. Can we official start to right it off right now as a useless, British establishment talking shop? So Labour appoint Gray, the Tories Annabel Goldie! It is like the Calman Commission never existed. Seriously do Scottish unionists expect people in Scotland do be impressed by this fiasco? As if Goldie and Gray would deliver Devo max!
To be honest near the end I am not sure Yes Scotland needed to do any organising. We became a very big and very real grass roots movement. When dishing out information no one asked me for a Yes leaflet, a lot of people asked for the WBB. I gave out half a dozen at work and loads to undecideds at the Yes stall.
We have the Yes parties which have grown hugely, there must 80,000+ members of the SNP, Greens, SSP and Solidarity. We have the Common Weal which continues, the 45, RIC, Women for Independence, Wings and Newsnet possibly in conjunction with Derek and the BBC Scotlandshire people. Both my Yes Orkney and Yes Largs Facebook pages are continuing and presumably the others are too.
In fact when you look at it we have an immense amount of activity going on. No shortage of places to go or activities to get involved with.
@Luigi No thank you on YES site.
As an activist I’ve had several e-mails and our local groups have had parties.
What has your local group done?
Listened to bbc radio Scotland doing the work of their masters and allowing Ineos a good 10 minutes to break us in gently with their fracking ideas and how they’ll give areas concerned bribes to allow smooth passage.
It’s like the Barnett formulas phase II. Gives us all below your feet and then we’ll give you some small change back. Ineos, Westminister – get tae fuck
Muttley
I have to say that I am mildly surprised by both Annabel and Iain as choices although they are both former Holyrood party leaders. Tomkins astounds me as a choice notwithstanding the legal constitutional knowledge he is hardly a keen proponent of Scottish self determination. However, I think it will be the final choice by Labour that may set the seal. Certainly Swinney and Harvie should be able to argue their corner in this group and I think Moore will push a federal line….Tavish? who knows?
@Btp
Agree, why should we end up in court because we refuse to pay to be lied to. Think of the furore this would cause. DM headline. SWEAT SOCKS DEMAND FREE TELLY.
As said already, lots of hares running, threaten snap election SG if homerule not given.
We have to keep highlighting they lied, and they ‘ did it deliberately’.
Nana, I agree, people need to realise what they voted for. I seem to remember some Labour woman on one of the comments pages saying that though her kids had used free school meals when she needed it, there was no way that she would agree to removing the stigma by allowing other than “poor” people like her get it, therefore no free school meals for some kids whose parents may well be struggling but are paying a mortgage for her.
I think that though I do not want the vulnerable to suffer, some of them had to have voted NO.
Today someone moaned to me that the latest Iraq bombing was awful. My standard retort from now on to all sorts of things will be something along the lines of,…. I voted Yes, blame those who voted for this. So that was said today. They looked rather sheepish and changed the subject.
At least Gray being so utterly useless will be talked into anything
I agree with all you say HS..
But it’s an election now. Parties matter most not that the groups don’t matter. i think we need organised to ensure we support indi parties at each area effectively .
labour ,Tory and libdems have the experience for this , we will see labour canvassers “with Scottish accents” . They may have needed to bus up from England then but now it’s party time . We need a strong hand a WM . It would show the waverers that we are still a powerful voice.
With Gray, Goldie, Tomkins, Tosh involved, if the Smith Commission was a ship it would be the titanic. Maybe best just to allow Swinney +1, Moore, Harvie +1 to come up with something. The rest do not seem to bring anything to the table apart from stupefying unionism and cringing Jock syndrome. I do not think Harvie, Swinney et al will be able to get anything significant through this lot. I am very tempted to right this whole sorry commission off now…
I’m getting seriously pissed off with what’s happening, probably like everyone else.
FFS only a few days we had a different choice – I know we’re supposed to be reaching out for the 55%, but as far as I’m feeling they can piss right off – apart from th e terrified pensioners.
We are living in an evil pretend democracy – just exactly what are Labour thinking of?
Yesguy
A fair point, I have joined the SNP as my first ever party although I was loosely attached to Labour (voter and putter up of posters in my window). Wars, fracking under our houses, freezing benefits, pledges to raise the minimum wage by 27p a year, UKIP breathing down Westminster’s neck….I don’t think the selling the Yes parties is going to be hard.
@galamcennalath – I agree.
If anyone moans about what’s happening I’m going to say it’s what the nos voted for.
Papadox, we have a very small middle class, certainly compared to the working class so we have some of the working class to blame for voting with Better Together. It always amazes me the number of people who vote against their own best interests. So they will reap the whirlwind. Unfortunately so will many who voted YES, the benefits of this wonderful democracy where there are no rules for them but lots and lots for us.
We will be run down by the Lords on their big horses shortly.
YESGuy who is going to marshall the troops, I would say you and everyone here is. How much input seriously did YES have?
Anybody got any idea why Sir Ian Wood was so downbeat about North Sea oil prior to the referendum and total silence about the west coast oilfields, o and Fracking in the central belt. Did he know INEOS intentions and plans.
I’m pretty sure HMG and yon Scots oil broker with the gangsters and terrorist mates has a hand in it. He was one of the first to donate to BT, Think his name was Ian?
Well done NO VOTERS hope they are going to f*** your land and water up for you. Congratulations.
I just did my first shop at Aldi – bye bye Asda
Govt pushing through rules to make banks untouchable…
link to techdirt.com
Pooling and sharing… broad shoulders… clout… world stage… punch above our weight… cliche… cliche… Better Together… UKOK… No Thanks…
Excellent! A nice ‘clean’ air war where nobody gets hurt apart from civilians! No ‘boots on the ground’ except for Dave’s “apart from”. Only £3bn for all this? Must’ve gone to Lidl! Still, Osborne’s right, the best way to eradicate poverty is to eradicate the poor…
Stumbling already.
Now SNP over 72,000 members.
bjsalba says:
29 September, 2014 at 6:26 pm
@Luigi No thank you on YES site.
As an activist I’ve had several e-mails and our local groups have had parties.
What has your local group done?
Nuthin.
Well bang goes(pardon the Pun ) the best part of the Oil Revenues for this year !
Schrödinger’s cat: I live in east Renfrewshire you know. We are not all rich! 36% of us did try our best to up the yes vote. It’s not my fault the odious Jim Murphy is my so called MP 🙁
I’ve been one of Asda,s most loyal customers. Started in the days that they had no shelves and just piled things on pallets! Maybe 40 years. I have not been over the door of Asda since they came out for NO. Instead I shop in Aldi and it’s fantastic! I’m saving a fortune! Well done Aldi and Lidl!
I’m finding it hard not to get very angry with the selfish NO voters. However I know that we do have to help them see the truth because if we don’t we could have violence here in Scotland and we don’t want that do we?
I’ve been a member of the SNP now for 38 years. I want Alex, Nicola, someone to come out now, on TV whatever, and tell it like it is! Someone has to counter all this crap from Westminster!
Milady, I’m not pointing fingers, I’m trying to work out what the party split was in 2011 was in the Scottish elections, problem being, the constituencies for holyrood are different for Westminster ge, eg, Ming Campbell won massifly in ne fife in 2011, the snp won in 2011 in a constituency almost exactly the same as Mingus.
It isn’t the case that all the ge and he constituencies are so similar in every region of Scotland, hence the questions
The reason we do this is to establish the exact state of affairs in each constituency so that we can target the canvassing more effectively
We want the Indy candidate to win east renfrewshire, any objections?
I sincerely hope that we are not going to be sold out for two packets of boiled sweets and a kitkat. Crash gordon was telling us about the devo max and that is the minimum we should be prepared to accept. Remember that the only bit of democracy we got was putting a x on a bit of paper. The rest was laughable, and we should not be letting that lie. All or nothing.
Peer Lord Glasman tells a Tory conference fringe meeting that both parties have acted in their short-term political interests during the Scottish independence debate without thought to the consequences.
Lord Glasman has said the No vote in the independence referendum has left the UK with a ‘huge number of problems’
Lord Glasman has said the No vote in the independence referendum has left the UK with a ‘huge number of problems’
Gordon Brown and David Cameron have “smashed” the Union by acting in their parties’ short-term political interests, a Labour peer has warned despite the Scottish nationalists losing the independence referendum.
Lord Glasman said Mr Brown’s promise of “a modern form of Scottish home rule” during the final days of the referendum campaign was incompatible with being part of the United Kingdom.
The academic and social thinker said one of the consequences was that Mr Brown would be the last Scottish Prime Minister and described this as a “tragedy for our country”.
Mr Cameron’s promise to ban Scottish MPs from voting on English laws in tandem with handing the Scottish Parliament more powers was a “classic case” of the parties “playing with the constitution”, he said.
Instead of thinking only about their “immediate self interest” and how announcements would play with voters, the peer said both sides needed to “step back” and think carefully about how they should reform the Union.
Lord Glasman was speaking at a fringe meeting at the Conservative conference in Birmingham hosted by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) about the impact of the referendum on England and the Union.
With the independence referendum on a knife edge earlier this month, all three pro-UK parties signed up to Mr Brown’s promise to create a “new Union” after a No vote with a fast-track timetable for devolving more powers over taxes and benefits.
But the cross-party consensus was shattered only hours after the result was announced when Mr Cameron announced outside Downing Street that the issue of English votes for English laws must be decided “in tandem”.
This would prevent Scottish MPs, 40 of which are Labour, voting at Westminster on issues such as English education and health care and would seriously hamper Ed Miliband’s ability to govern if he wins the general election.
Lord Glasman pointed out that Mr Cameron had not mentioned the English issue during the referendum campaign, saying: “This is just a classic case of both parties playing with the constitution in terms of their immediate party self interest.
“What we’ve done is smash the Union. Brown stood up and made a speech after which it was incapable for any Scot to be Prime Minister again – he’s the last. That’s a tragedy for our country.”
The lecturer in political theory at London Metropolitan University concluded: “If there’s a Union, there’s a Union but you can’t have home rule, complete control over your own affairs. I think we’ve got to step back here and re-conceptualise the Union.”
He said the No vote had left a “huge number of problems” and attacked the pro-UK Better Together campaign as being based on “begging, bullying and bribing. It was a nasty.”
Nick Pearce, the IPPR’s director, said the question over whether there could ever again be a Scottish Chancellor was more “pressing” the Scottish Prime Minister issue thanks to the Unionist parties’ plans to devolve income tax.
He said: “The minute all of income tax is decided in Scotland by a Scottish finance minister, it makes it much harder for an English chancellor (from Scotland) to legislate in a budget for English income tax.”
Speaking on the same panel, Rory Stewart, the Tory MP for Penrith and the Border, backed the Prime Minister’s English laws announcement but agreed with Lord Glasman that there needed to be a new “vision” of the United Kingdom and its constitution.
Luigi, what has your local party done…..nothing
What have you organized……….
Maybe people in your area are only waiting for someone to make a move.
Why not organize a yes bonfire on nov 5th, I,ll send you 200 koomfay ballons and a few disposable barbeques, bio degradable ones
Maybe people are just waiting for u to make a move?
SCottieDog
That is frightening.
Is HEALTH AND SAFETY LEGISLATION about to be dismantled, piece by piece?
Does anyone out there know how to get the names of the directors and shareholders of these arms companies I would like to know how many M.P.s or their family’s have holdings in these company’s and if they do have how much tax do they pay for dishing out death ? As for being a friend of Israel no thank you in the last war I hated the nazis for what they were doing to the Jews the nazis were the bad guys now we have the Jews doing almost the same thing to the poor people of Palestine so now I hate them I am not anti Semitic I am just anti bad guy and what’s wrong with that?
Re contacting other Yes groups who appear to have been abandoned by Yes Scotland (my words not theirs!)YesClydesdale.org has a massive list on their Links page. Most have Facebook addresses and a small amount with twitter & website addresses.
In the absence of YesScotland info, could this be a starting point for accumulating contacts with local groups?
Nick Pierce ,IPPR , expert? Does he not know who the First Lord of the Treasury is? Glasman says that we’ll never provide another Prime Minister and its a shame , it’s not a shame , it is a fundamentally big problem about the composition of any future cabinet , i.e. no spending minister from a Scottish constituency. Voting NO just gets better and better . With no clout at that table , how long will it be before we start to suffer . Mr Mundell will need a new job.
ScottieDog
it actually makes citizens (subjects as we truely are in the unions eyes), subservient to business interests.
Hi folks
I posted this comment on the previous thread, but no one’s on there any more (this seems to happen a lot to me) so here it is for what it’s worth.
My first question at our SNP branch meeting on Monday will be, “When do we start knocking on doors to find out how people intend to vote and why?”
My next question will be, “How do we co-ordinate this information in order to target the necessary people to change their minds?”
My third question will be, “Who do we have who can put together the necessary information for the different demographics?”
That is my sole aim for the next 8 months – working in the most effective way possible in order to get as many people voting SNP as possible. Okay, the SNP came 4th in my constituency in 2010, but if we can come a close second to the inevitable Tory b**tard who’ll be elected in the Scottish Borders, then that will be a major step forward for the next referendum.
The SNP for the first time has a large group of dedicated, experienced, bolshie and determined activists on its hands. I hope the leadership are ready for what’s about to hit them (in the nicest possible way!)
OT I know, but does anyone have a link to photos or footage of the demo at Pacific Quay?
If Scottish MPs will not be voting on English “matters” seems a bit silly to send some Labour ones – I’m sure that will be helpful for Labour voters to know.
When the Scottish Government raise taxes, as they will have to – under the austerity drive and cuts to the Scottish Block Grant – they should call the tax a ‘Westminster’ levy or a ‘No vote’ consequential.
@Natasha
I have asked about the demo also with no response at all.
Which BRIT can resist the menu served up by WESTMINSTER COOKS and their LABOUR WAITERS?
ENCOURAGE FRACKING BELOW HOUSES IN CENTRAL SCOTLAND
DENY FINANCIAL BENEFITS TO THOSE WHO DON’T HAVE A JOB
BOMB IRAQ (AGAIN)
CHARGE THE YOUNG TO LEARN
GET THE SICK TO PAY WHEN THEY ARE ILL
BUY MORE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
MANIPULATE THE PEOPLE WITH THE HELP OF NEWSPAPERS
GET THE NEWSPAPERS TO HIDE THE GOOD NEWS THAT A YES VOTE WOULD PROVIDE
GET THE BRITISH BROADCASTING CORPORATION TO TELL THE PEOPLE THAT YES IS BAD
Apparently, this is the menu for a better BRITAIN as created by The CONSERVATIVE PARTY, The LABOUR PARTY, and The LIBERAL PARTY.
Worth reposting
“dramfineday says:
29 September, 2014 at 5:46 pm
In the time that the SNP have left until the next Scottish elections, what new laws or reforms would the forum like to see introduced?
my starters for 10: –
work with our Yes partner, the green party, to introduce a land value tax.
Work in conjunction with our Yes partners to introduce a land reform bill.
In addition I’d like to see them start a number of hare’s running aimed at assuming powers, rather than waiting for them. Also start calling in experts from our Yes partners, when taking about reform and change as supportive background.
All that, plus equitable distribution of the forthcoming cuts; sorting out the press and the EBC, should keep them busy.
PS 45% wanted change – time the SNP government started to shake the tree a bit harder and examine what of the 55%falls out in the way of vested interests, duplication and waste.
Over to you guys.”
100 percent behind this!
@Natasha
“The SNP for the first time has a large group of dedicated, experienced, bolshie and determined activists on its hands. I hope the leadership are ready for what’s about to hit them (in the nicest possible way)”.
Couldn’t agree more with your post Natasha. I’m sure many, many people feel the same way.
From Yes Aberdeenshire – CONTINUE FORWARD
@Ian Mackay 8.19pm
Ha ha, love it. The No Vote Consequential!!
CPC
Boris
“Why should we allow these “former adjutants of Gordon Brown” to wreck the economy again, asks Boris Johnson to cheers #CPC14
HandandShrimp says:
29 September, 2014 at 6:29 pm
Muttley
I have to say that I am mildly surprised by both Annabel and Iain as choices although they are both former Holyrood party leaders. Tomkins astounds me as a choice notwithstanding the legal constitutional knowledge he is hardly a keen proponent of Scottish self determination. However, I think it will be the final choice by Labour that may set the seal. Certainly Swinney and Harvie should be able to argue their corner in this group and I think Moore will push a federal line….Tavish? who knows?
Mildly surprised? MILDLY SURPRISED??? Oh for heavens sake Shrimp-anyone with more than a coupla brain cells will know that this travesty of a commission aint goin nowhere!
Of COURSE the onionists will put up these nonentities as they are dyed in the wool onionists who have proved that they dont wish ANY powers towards the land of their birth!
There was no way though, that they COULDN’T invite the SNP along(To prove the “democratic” spin)
The SNP will, as always, be the only true Scots in this charade who will actually put up a fight for the homeland, unlike these other lickspittles!
@bookie from hell
The lecturer in political theory at London Metropolitan University concluded: “If there’s a Union, there’s a Union but you can’t have home rule, complete control over your own affairs. I think we’ve got to step back here and re-conceptualise the Union.”
I do not like the sound of that.
@Flower of Scotland
“I’ve been a member of the SNP now for 38 years. I want Alex, Nicola, someone to come out now, on TV whatever, and tell it like it is! Someone has to counter all this crap from Westminster”.
Aye, what about a straight talking dismantler?
Someone who’s sole responsibility is to deconstruct the festering mass of deceit and lies. Someone like Stuart?
That would be good I agree. Maybe Jim Sillars could be persuaded?
I see the daily reckord have resorted to making t.v. Adverts. Smacks of desperation! 🙂
@Natasha
The SNP for the first time has a large group of dedicated, experienced, bolshie and determined activists on its hands. I hope the leadership are ready for what’s about to hit them (in the nicest possible way!)
I get what you are saying. However, it is up to the leadership to decide on the correct strategy. I hope people are not signing up imagining it will be like a re run of the Yes campaign. The SNP have to be disciplined, serious political force and machine. They would not have got this far without being so. The Greens and the SSP are more grassroots organisations.
@SquareHaggis
Great link, really inspiring video. Thanks. 🙂
@Luigi says: 29 September, 2014 at 3:20 pm:
“This is bound to be tied up with English votes for English laws.”
Of course it is. This is what I’ve been trying to get across since devolved parliaments were first mentioned.
It is now, though, staring you squarely in the face. The UK Government is exactly as David Mundell told you it was when he said, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”. Now if you look at it with that in mind – Westminster is the Parliament of England renamed as the Parliament of the United Kingdom and as such the Scottish, Welsh & N.I. Members are surplus to England’s requirements
The stark truth is they took the two kingdom Union Treaty and interpreted it as the 533 members of Westminster Parliament from England decided it would mean. This in flagrant defiance of the actual text on the treaty paper. They used their massive English majority, (plus the usual ("Tractor" - Ed)ous Scottish faction), and the total unawareness of the majority of Welsh & N. Irish Members to force England’s will upon the Scottish, Welsh and N.I. People and they have now indeed got away with it.
There is no legally elected Parliament of England for the simple reason they have no need for one. Remember what Mundell said, “They renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”. The writing was really on the wall and now the final step is in hand. All they now required is to prevent the Scots, Welsh & Northern Irish, (who are, after all, elected members of, “The United Kingdom Parliament”, a.k.a. “The Parliament of England”), from legally interfering in their de facto Parliament of England to make Westminster into the actual Parliament of England with, of course full sovereignty over Scotland, Wales & N.I. … Job Done!
A N Surgent says
“They should just stand in a big crowd waving their flags, that would be much fairer.”
What?
Like this you mean?
link to youtube.com
http://www.YesClydesdale.org is very good. Checked a few and one or two aren’t there, but most are – and updated as of today or yesterday. Just in case it disappears, it’d be a good idea if one or more of you regulars copied the 4 links pages as I did (I’m not a regular).
Sorry if it’s teaching egg-sucking but to save in IE, get the page up, click “view” then “source”, go on that to “file”, “save as” (not save), then down to filename as “xxx.html” and “save as type” as “All Files”. You might want to set up a folder first.
[…] Demand and Supply, Wings over Scotland. The Rev. Stuart Campbell offers two images for our consideration highlighting the UK governments ability to find billions for war while cutting back on welfare. Full story here. […]
At the last GE in 2010 there was a 63.8% turnout. Total voting 2,465,722. At the Referendum on 18 September 2014, there was a turnout of 84.6%. Total voting 3,283,392 (3,429 votes invalid). 1,617,989 YES to 2,001,926 NO. Now let’s assume, fired up and raging YES all come out again all 1,617,989 of us. Let’s also assume that the complacent NO go back to their 2010 63.8% turnout or 1,277,229.At the 2010 election only 1,035,528 voted Labour in total. That alone seems to be a big cloud on SLAB’s horizon. BUT also throw into that mix that even conservatively only 30% traditional labour voters voted YES. Using the same 2010 election total labour voters, labour are going to lose at least 310,658 voters to a YES party leaving SLAB at the most conservative estimate a core vote of only 724,870, at normal general election levels, compared to 1.6 million YES votes. Now add that 310,658 onto the SNP 2010 General election total voters of 491,386 and that’s still an SNP lead of 802,044 compared to SLAB’s core vote of only 724,870. Throw in the angry soft NO voters who wished they voted YES and the First Past The Post System anomalies and it could be ‘Good night, Vienna’ come May for many, many ‘weel kent’ labour vizogs. Seeing Murphy, Brown, Alexander, Davidson etc. etc faces as they stand on those stages trying no to greet as they lose their ‘jobs for life’ safe labour seats, is keeping me going til May. It cannot come quick enough.
A good example of wealth generation without the national currency…
link to p2pfoundation.net
Thanks Cuilean, that’s cheered me up no end!
Listen to ‘Angry Salmond’ on Michael Greenwell’s podcast so just wait for him to step down in November, real fireworks are coming.
@Cuilean
I don’t want to piss in your tent, but some of those names may be out of reach. First-past-the-post is a very difficult nut to crack, and they have huge majorities. It would be great to get some of them out, but SLAB’s downfall will not happen overnight (even if you argue that in started in 2007). It is likely to be a drawn out affair. It took a lot of elections for the Tories’ decline to become evident, and they were not nearly as strong as SLAB.
Hi Folks
I have started up a website – just getting it together at the moment
It will have forums / chat rooms / shop
If anyone has ideas for what products we should be doing and also has any art work they would like to see on products let us know on the forums
Chat room should be up and running around about friday
You can reserve the same nickname you use on here if you join the forums
To keep us safe from trolls – entry to the chatrooms will be for registered forum users only
link to 45ersplus.forumchitchat.com
any other suggestions – just let us know your ideas on the forum
@cynicalHighlander
What did he say? I could not hear him very well when I listened to it and gave up.
Piggy: Aye, what about a straight talking dismantler?
It needs a new face who says it in new memorable ways.
But it will take a large heart and rhino skin to survive the vehement antagonism of Anglophiles. Salmond had the streak of ruthlessness backed by a fine political knowledge to match the worst at Westminster.
@Macandroid says:29 September, 2014 at 3:24 pm:
“Not FFA unless we have control over all revenue streams. I’m not sure that’s what he is saying.”
Of course it isn’t, Macandroid, had you forgotten the United Kingdom Parliament, (a.k.a. “The de facto Parliament of England”), owns ALL the revenues from, “Extra-Regio Territories”?
Indeed, now they have got those rebellious Scots back into their box, the de facto Parliament of England will see no further need to maintain that over generious 8.4% share of those UK, (a.k.a. The de facto parliament of England), revenues that the de facto Parliament of England subsidises Scotland with.
Hence the simple statement that the Scots can raise and spend all their own revenues. With, of course a contribution towards the reserved functions including UK defence?
@Grouse Beater
I think Sturgeon has what is required. Anyone that saw her demolition job on Carmichael and Moore cannot help but to have been impressed (unless you are a diehard Brit nat that is).
@muttley79
What I thought before once one is not shackled by position then one is able to speak ones mind, gloves are off bare knuckles are the only game in town. When something is stolen from you by underhand means which this referendum was then forget the fireworks WMD will be unleashed.
@Grouse Beater
Totally agree that specific qualities are essential for this type of role.
And, yes, a new face and new mannerisms might help catch the tide of youth currently building within the country.
It’s an important time and an opportunistic one also. I hope that the SNP are actively developing a strategy, and also contemplating how to provide some element of focus for the massive force that sits waiting for direction.
The willingness within people to act is strong, and this should be harnessed quickly by the SNP in providing a sense or purpose of direction.
I would urge the senior members of the party to act swiftly and respond to the demonstration of support from the people of Scotland who have clearly put their faith in them.
THEY ACTIVELY ENGAGED THEM, and NOW THEY MUST GUIDE THEM.
@HandandShrimp says: 9 September, 2014 at 4:12 pm:
There also seems to be at least three if not four separate alternative media groups setting something up. Again we need to concentrate our energies and pull these together to make a good thing.
We actually really need at least two. A Freeview TV Channel and a DAB/FM Radio channel. The on-line stuff is great but it talks mainly to the converted. Many of the older, retired folk, get up and turn on the Radio, or even awake to a radio alarm set to Radio Scotland. Others awake and switch on the TV.
Any sane person who watches a diet of BBC morning TV or listens to the brain numbing Radio Scotland will not remain sane for very long. Some of it is totally idiotic. What elderly person is actually really interested in, for example buying up almost derelict property at auction to renovate for profit? How many are looking for big priced homes in exotic locations to retire to? How many cooking programmes can one person watch? It is wall to wall cheap to produce pap for idiots, interspersed with Westminster propaganda.
@Grouse Beater:
“Salmond had the streak of ruthlessness backed by a fine political knowledge to match the worst at Westminster.”
Too true! He is also a very sharp listener, and often feeds them back their lines, to display their paucity! He strikes me as very intelligent, but careful not to use that to put ordinary folk down, sharp witted, a good people reader, a certain amount of charm, and knows how to move the chess pieces. I sound fawning, but I have been around politicians my whole working life, and he is a fairly rare specimen.
We should look at Ireland’s history to inspire us. In 1914 few would have forecast a republican landslide in 1918, but that is what happened after the “defeat” of the Easter Rising in 1916. Every Unionist MP is vulnerable, and they know it. Lets do it. Faint hearts won no fair lady or election victory. There are, as of lunch time today, over 72,000 SNP members available to take this democratic struggle forward. We might not win all the seats, but, by God, we can transform totally the post referendum calculus.
Anyone who wonders how on earth I can support UDI: THIS is why.
How many more people is the British State going to murder before it becomes less catastrophic for the people of Scotland to risk expulsion from the EU, lack of recognition from NATO, and a whole host of other hazards, when we’re seeing not only the continued destruction of Britain’s most vulnerable, but an acceleration and exacerbation of that horror? And now we’re going to be funding the missiles killing innocent people under the illusion of “peacemaking”, making us a target for the desperate radicals, just as the head of MI5 pointed out.
And guess what? The National Service Bill will be going for a second reading early next year. All those unemployed young people, now stripped of benefits, will have no choice but to enroll themselves into the war machine. They can’t stay with their parents, because they’ll have had to move out of their home due to the EXTRA BEDROOM. There is no other option for them.
That’s my cousins the Tories are planning on putting into National Service. My family, my friends. My people. Being press-ganged into war under the guise of “doing their duty for their country.” I would sooner see my cousins in jail for “desertion” or “cowardice” than see them shipped off to a foreign country to die or kill in an unjust war.
How much more of this are we going to put up with? The SNP gradualist approach has worked well so far, but I’m genuinely frightened that it’s going to get to the point where the descent of Britain becomes so rapid that it’ll be too late to save Scotland.
We had the shot to avoid all this on the 19th. Now we’ll have one last chance in 2015. After that, no, no more excuses. The death is becoming too much for me.
Schrödinger’s cat says:
29 September, 2014 at 7:49 pm
Luigi, what has your local party done…..nothing
What have you organized……….
Maybe people in your area are only waiting for someone to make a move.
Why not organize a yes bonfire on nov 5th, I,ll send you 200 koomfay ballons and a few disposable barbeques, bio degradable ones
Maybe people are just waiting for u to make a move?
I’m interested to do something, although I’m not keen to celebrate the fact that parliament was not blown up! I don’t use Facebook or Twitter, so not sure how to reach people now that everyone has dispersed.
These Labour MPs voted for Iraq 3:
Douglas Alexander, Willie Bain, Gordon Banks, Russell Brown, Tom Clarke, Alistair Darling, Thomas Docherty, Gemma Doyle, Tom Greatrex, Tom Harris, Jimmy Hood, Cathy Jamieson, Michael McCann, Jim McGovern, Jim Murphy, Pamela Nash, Sandra Osborne, John Robertson, Lindsay Roy, Anas Sarwar, Jim Sheridan.
I presume they’ll be joining up soon to put boots on the ground, rather than sending other people’s children to die for them.
Another 552 members and the SNP has 1000 members in each of Scotlands 73 Holyrood constituencies.
That’s 10 super activists, 100 get out and do activists and 300 or so who will do a bit. A Westminster constituency is 45000 houses or the 300 only need to do 150 each, an hour and a half and the constituency could be leafletted. Canvassing 2hours 4nights 20houses per pair per night gives 4000 per week for 8 weeks from start of Mar 2015 is 32000 of the 45000 done. That is the sort of work that the whole of the SNP put into the Glenrothes or Glasgow East bye elections going on in each and every Westminster constituency all at the same time and no spare bodies available to ship up from rUK to counteract that.
This is a whole different ball game. All the stuff from Scotland Votes and Electoral Calculus is worthless in the face of such and onslaught. Willie Bain, Gordon Brown look out your CVs, nobody is safe
Kestral, someone else has started a forum here.
link to 45.hubberts-arms.org
I’ve joined but not posted. I’m not hugely impressed so far but it seems to need better posters, not competition.
I see the ghastly “45” thing is in the url, but at least it’s not in the name of the forum itself. I can scarcely bring myself to sign up to anything with 45 in the name. I’m hoping it dies soon, but if it’s enshrined in this way, some hope. And that won’t be good for us.
@Robert Peffers. Indeed I also think that this is the Tory game plan and there is no way we will keep the oil revenue which they consider is a UK revenue resource, extra-regio is just an accounting method to keep it off Scotlands books.
Where I disagree with you is that the WM does not hold all the cards. The key point is transparency V obfuscation vis a vis Scottish resources and spending really in Scotland.
Cameron I think has done a 1984 and believed some of his own propaganda. If you take a look at Niall Aslens the great deception (my Alias is kind of related to this) and look at Gers it is clear that Scotlands finances are understated while our share of spend is overstated.
If we can account for everything, even if not controlling everything, even with oil going to WM then the strength of the Scottish economy will become much more clear. 9 times out of 10 the ‘unidentifiable’ spending which is added to Scotland pro-rata is clearly not spent in Scotland to the level allocated. Defence is a prime example.
If we want the Scottish parliament to be accountable (Which Unionists say they want), then it has to have audited accounts for the entire revenue and spending of all devolved parts. It is then also clearer how much these other UK wide services cost us and how much activity comes back to Scotland.
The only problem for all this is that it ends most of the obfuscation so I cannot see WM allowing an easy to administrate, transparent system for Scotlands Accounts. As Calman stated – FFA, even without oil, would end the Union.
Taranaich,
Very well said sir !
And can anyone tell me why all my mail from wings,Bella and butterfly rebellion is now going straight into junk mail ?
I have come to the inescapable conclusion it is time to put aside ‘punching above our weight,’ and start punching the excuses of idiots cheerful to undermine their nation’s hopes.
Handclapping, one of the problems is that the new members, like the old ones, won’t be evenly distributed. Constituencies that are already good for the SNP will be mob-handed, while those with relatively little support will still be struggling for bodies to go round.
If I see certain farm roads one more time in my life it’ll be once too often, but needs must come the spring I suppose.
@Taranaich
I do not believe that UDI is an option at all. I understand people are still really disappointed, but to be honest declaring UDI is easily the worst thing you can do. TO say that it makes the international community pissed off with you is a massive understatement. The circumstances that we got beat are not even controversial by international standards. The UK government was bound to lobby to get other governments to oppose Scottish independence. The BBC and the rest of the MSM were always going to be extremely biased. The No campaign were bound to scare pensioners and run the most negative, spiteful campaign. I am afraid all of this was largely predictable before the campaign began.
If we declared UDI having got beat in these circumstances, no nation would recognise our independence. We would probably have wrecked our chances of ever becoming independent. I am not sure how isolated people realise we would be if we did a UDI.
Meanwhile the UK government, press and media, wax lyrical about the ensembled crowds in Hong Kong, warning China to allow such ‘peaceful’ civil disobedience to express itself without threats.
‘They want reforms,’ say kindly western observers, and should be given them. ‘The scale and self-confidence is impressive.’
Hoo haar!
They probably don’t even notice the inconsistency.
@Morag
How do you know where the new members will be based? I agree that most are not going to be based in rural areas.
Seeing as the SNP are now the 3rd biggest paty in the UK,I will expect the BBC to give their party conference in November the same air time as the tory/labour ones.
@EphemeralDeception – very interesting post on the virtues of transparency.
More on the subject of tracking
link to wolfstreet.com
It’s the way it usually distributes itself. Constituencies are of similar sizes so it’s not about urban and rural (though indeed forces are spread thinner in rural areas), it’s about where the general support is. If there’s a lot of SNP support there, there will be a lot of members. If not, not.
Original post somehow ended up in New readers section.
I see that the bbc are this Wed going tell us how the referendum was won. I may be prejudging this but somehow I cant see them admitting to media bias, misinformation, intimidation etc.
Somehow can’t see this telling us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Maybe our new media could produce a counter to this, to be broadcast as and when.
As I say, I could be prejudging this, but we are talking about the state proaganda broadcaster.
@EphemeralDeception
We definitely will not get the oil revenues. That is to be taken as red. I reckon we will get what Rev Stu has written about on this website, namely all of income tax devolved, and hence massive cuts in our block grant. We will not get corporation tax either. Basically it will be dressed up as more powers when it is really more responsibility.
Britain (and the US) urge Hong Kong authorities to ‘show retraint.’
The thousands of protestors are ‘fighting to protect democracy.’
A Foreign Office Spokesman said, ‘Hong Kong’s prosperity is underpinned by its fundamental rights and freedoms, including the right to demonstrate.’
This crap from a nation that kettled and then outlawed similar Occupy demonstrations, and demonised students taking part.
Muttley, I’m aware that SLAB, despite having only 42% of votes in 2010 GE, acqured 70% of the 59 MP seats, under the first past the post system and that the SNP with 20% of the popular vote only secured 10% of the 59 seats. But look at that. Only 4 years ago the SNP polled only 20% but last week we (YES) polled 45%! Murphy polled 25,987 and SNP 4,535. It seems a huge lead but factor in that half of that 86% NOs turnout going back to sleep (as the grannies pensions are safe and the Orange Order don’t have to worry about the Queen being replaced by the Pope) whilst the other half of that 86% turnout, the YES side, are ‘nursing our wrath to keep it warm’, so we are not going back into our box, then that seemingly unassailbale lead of Murphy’s may be on a very shoogly peg. Added to which Murphy accrued a huge amount of empathy over the egg throwing stunt. I think his constituents, given his vote to blow up brown people far away this week are itching to let the entitled SLAB elite know just what we think of them. I think the Lib Dems may be harder to shift as who does a disaffected Liberal in Scotland vote for? Tories? No. Labour? NO. SNP? No. They’ll probably vote Green in protest. Och who knows. First past the post makes it all a bit random but if only 75% of the YES who voted on 18th turnout, I think we will get an awful lot of scalps, even SLAB’s humpty dumpty himself and all the Queen’s horses and all the Queen’s men couldn’t put Murphy together again.
@Morag
You are best to have as many members in urban areas as possible because that is where the mass of the population is. Anyway, we are never going to win over most of the people in rural areas. I would rather have the vast majority of members living in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen than most of the them living in the highlands for instance (no offence against that beautiful area).
Is it not just grand to see natural justice! Labour MSP complaining because the RBS is closing his local branch hahaha how we laughed.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
@Cuilean
I would be cautious about the general election next year. I would love to see Murphy slung out on his ear, but he has a massive majority. We will see.
@HandandShrimp says: 29 September, 2014 at 6:23 pm:
“To be honest near the end I am not sure Yes Scotland needed to do any organising. We became a very big and very real grass roots movement.”
I’ve seen nothing like this self-generating grass-roots movement in the United Kingdom since I became a political animal as a wee boy in 1946. Nothing to date comes even close and anyone who thinks this is going away any time soon is deluded. Furthermore, anyone who thinks they can ignore such a grass-roots movement must think again for such movements are unstopable. Nothing, (except a budgie wi nae teeth), can succeed like an idea whose time has come. The idea of Scottish Independence has arrived and it really intends to stay.
It’s probably swings and roundabouts to some extent, but remember constituencies are roughly equal numbers of voters so urban areas will be well supplied anyway.
Living near a triple county boundary, I went to help in two other local authority areas during the referendum. Both required a shorter drive than to reach where my own team was canvassing – by some way.
Both were well supplied with eager warm bodies. 45 minutes leafleting in a team of 4, one of multiple such teams, and the whole bloody town seemed to be done. A work colleague told me his area was losing activists because they were running out of work for them.
Meanwhile we were killing ourselves covering an adjacent rural area. We’re too hung up on the county boundaries, I should have shanghied some people from Yes Clydesdale.
Disappointed doesn’t cut it, my friend: people I know have died due to Westminster’s cuts. I have personally been impoverished over the years to the point where I’m finding it difficult to make ends meet. Everyone in my family is the same. Independence is not just a matter of pride or democracy for me, it’s a matter of survival. “Disappointed” is an understatement.
Is it really worse than seeing tens of thousands more of our people dying of hypothermia, malnutrition, or lack of basic healthcare needs because of a succession of governments we didn’t vote for? Is it really worse than contributing to another illegal war which WILL radicalise a new generation of Muslims? Is it really worse remaining part of what is increasingly looking like a state on the brink of failure with its £1.5trillion+ debt? If not, then at what point WILL it become worse? Will it be when National Service is put into place? Will it be when Holyrood is dissolved? Will it be when fracking destroys the Central belt? At what point does UDI become the only option to save Scotland – if ever? Would it be preferable for Scotland to be extinguished for good than to declare UDI?
To be frank, I’m feeling isolated enough having no voice at the EU, having no power to stop English legislation to sell off our resources, and having no power to stop Westminster destroying our environment and people. The international community seem perfectly happy to keep their nose out of our business, but will then step in to harm us rather than aid us? Then to hell with the international community. England will invade us? Then at least they’ll be open in their intentions towards us.
Perhaps I’m blinded by my horror at Westminster. Perhaps the fact that my nearest and dearest have been personally impoverished by Westminster policies over the course of decades has made me desperate. Perhaps I myself have been hurt and hurt and hurt again by Westminster that I’m starting to seriously get to the end of my tether. But I’m honestly starting to lose any patience with the long run. Let’s say it goes to 2017, snap post-Euro referendum. How many people will have died because of Westminster policy at that time? And what if it doesn’t work? Would more people die as a result of UDI? If that could be proven, then it would be one thing. I don’t care about our riches, I don’t care about our standing, I just want people to stop dying.
I sense I’m getting quite hysterical here, so I’ll shut up. But just think, it’s barely two weeks after the referendum. We’ve see cuts to winter fuel allowance promised by Labour, cuts to benefits, cuts to the block grant, cuts to Barnett, broken promises, and another war. We have MONTHS to go until the Westminster elections. How much worse is it going to get before we either get this organised, or before UDI becomes the safe option?
@HandandShrimp says:29 September, 2014 at 6:29 pm:
“….Tavish? who knows?”
Considering that Tavish hasn’t a clue what to say … who indeed could know?
Girl I know is a full time carer for her mum who is 87 and had 2 strokes, she has a daughter with chrones and she still goes out to work in the evening, (cleaning) to make ends meet and they are trying to cut her benefit, now Westminster wants to go to war in Iraq to save Tory Blairs shares and many others who invested heavily with UI (South Korean oil company who own a lot of Iraqi oil). priorities are all fucked up
@Morag
I’ve no idea what the spread of the new members is but I dont see them just as an equal % increase in what the SNP branches had already.
These are mainly Yes supporters joining so 37% ex Labour 30% ex LibDems even 5% ex Tories so yes I suppose you could postulate more joining in the Central belt where Labour is prevalent but you should also be picking up ex LibDems in places like Berwickshire or NE Fife.
If you look at it that way its an added bonus as its in the Labour heartlands that we need to work to get the Unionists out
@ Cuilean
Re: disaffected Liberals –
in 2011 they managed to vote SNP in a lot of places. I know it’s true that votes for Westminster do not necessarily match those for Holyrood (even in the constituencies), but it seems reasonable to conclude that they are not so hostile to the SNP that they would not even consider voting for them – unlike the ultra-tribal Labour core vote. If they like their MSPs, they might go that extra step, especially if they feel let down by the coalition.
Some Labour majorities are daunting; but even some of those seats changed hands in 2011, and those voters who perhaps broke the habit of a lifetime might consider doing so at Westminster too. It all depends on whether they buy the “only Labour can keep the Tories out” and “Labour is different from the Tories” lines simultaneously.
Maybe that’s what we have to work on.
muttley.
i have the A.Salmond interview on my google plus page. I listened to the whole thing with a pair of headphones. I was impressed again by the man. he will have much to offer when he is released from the restraints of office. he sounded angry and left me in no doubt that the movement Goes on . it’s saved on my “posts”
link to ah-me.com
It’s worth the wee bairn butting in and shows wee Eck is going no where.
I have learned to like the guy and worried when he stepped down that the fire would go with him.
Not bloody likely.
@Taranaich
I am not saying that people have not died because of the Tories. What I am saying is that UDI is in political terms suicidal. If you want to kill your chances of ever getting independence then that is what you do. UDI is not an option I am afraid to say. Of course it is not worse than people dying of hyperthermia etc, but that happens in England as well as Scotland. These things are much, much worse. But they are still not a reason to effectively end your chances of ever getting independence by going down the UDI route.
that link went straight to a porn site
Sorry folks no idea how that happened.
link to spreaker.com
i would say oops but it really was not me …
no it has happened to a couple of the links . now …
off to run some spyware.
that link works
@robert Peffers said:
“We actually really need at least two. A Freeview TV Channel and a DAB/FM Radio channel. The on-line stuff is great but it talks mainly to the converted. Many of the older, retired folk, get up and turn on the Radio, or even awake to a radio alarm set to Radio Scotland. Others awake and switch on the TV.”
Thank god someone else has understood what we need..!
If we want to reach every household we simply have to a TV channel capable of reaching them. The cheapest and most simple way is probably via Freeview 24/7.
The content must also be enticing enough to make people watch it and then lace it with good news programmes and documentaries.
I admire the folk starting up online broadcasting but it’s not coordinated and just makes chatting to ourselves more professional in our bubble.
Why don’t they all get together under one roof, create a media centre, pool their equipment, budget together and let everyone mutually benefit from the synergetic effect.
All pooling their parts into a single 24/7 channel.
The same goes for Radio with Bateman. He needs to be under the same roof as the TV folk with the same effect.
I think we are missing a trick here. No voters were blue labour voters, they love the way that labour have moved to the right, they adore them they are the tories in a different guise the name still says labour. They will not move
@Taranaich –
I know there are personal reasons why you would perhaps shun the idea of becoming a ‘public’ face of the Yes movement, but I’m sure there are many who would agree that you are the kind of character we need now.
Your writing is brilliant because it’s from the heart, and if you could convey even a fraction of that passion to people in community halls etc, you’d be a fantastic asset to whichever group you chose to represent.
And never say never. Many people, during that long campaign, ended up doing things they never thought themselves capable of (especially the dreaded ‘public speaking’) and found that it’s really not such a big deal after all – not when what you have to say is something you believe.
@Midgehunter
Agreed. This really needs to happen. There is too many new media projects for my liking from Yes supporters. A bit of co-ordination, and dare I say it…pooling and sharing of resources by Yes media would not go amiss. 😀 😀
@YESGUY
I say what an unfortunate turn of events…What happened there?
If that was the case, then Ireland, Albania, Bangladesh, Northern Cyprus, Croatia, Slovenia, and Kosovo have killed their chance at independence with their UDIs. What would make Scotland different? I absolutely think a strong case could be made that the UK government broke the Edinburgh Agreement on multiple occasions, and the UK certainly isn’t many countries’ best friend right now. It baffles me how a country that the entire EU NEEDS to remain in the EU would be resolutely shunned in the event of UDI.
If KOSOVO of all countries can be a functioning independent country regardless of being unrecognized, then so can oil and resource-rich Scotland. I just don’t understand why UDI is so much worse than being part of such a destructive and dangerous state.
@Pentland Firth at 9:46 pm
Re Ireland’s history
The people in ireland did not really support the 1916 rising – what really turned them against English Rule was the brutality of the reprisals – all the leaders were shot including badly wounded Scotsman james connolly who had to be tied to a chair opposite the firing party.
Many young men were put in gaol in england and so on.
The majority of the irish people then voted for sinn fein ( then equivalent to SNP today) in the 1918 election and england refused to accept the outcome of the election . move to a war footing.
I hope the scottish people never have to go through anything similar.
Maybe the hardship caused by the various cuts and wars Westminster is proposing for scotland (and the rest of the UK) will strengthen the scottish people’s resolve to move forward towards independence in the coming year or two.
With regards to news about the edinburgh demos at the weekend – i managed to find a twitter photo which i have inserted into my latest post. i searched hard for a video but found nothing.
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
@ Taranaich
UDI is NOT an option. PERIOD!
Talk of UDI’s is going to harm our cause more than talk of a rigged referendum.
Some facts need to be faced I’m afraid. We’ve just had an historic vote with mass participation and we lost. Forty-five percent is fairly close, but it’s not close enough and the No side actually secured about 20% more physical votes than we did. Furthermore, only 37% of the electorate actually voted Yes.
Talk of UDI’s is frankly ridiculous. If people thought that the banks were leaving a fortnight ago, they sure as hell would with an undemocratic UDI and they’d take most businesses with them too. Scotland would be a wasteland in weeks and I suspect there would be tanks rolling across the border.
I’m sorry, but you need to take a deep breath and look forward to making a difference (again) in May 2015. This situation is not going to be resolved from the outside of the system.
@YESGUY
The result of the referendum was not the end for those of us who seek a true democracy. Many, many ordinary folk like you and I who became engaged in the debate truly believed what we were arguing for.
Now that particular candle has been lit in our souls it will not be extinguished any time soon. The fight for a fairer society and an end to the greed and corruption will go on.
I know you will be part of that for as long as you can contribute, me too buddy. Keep the head held high knowing that you were doing the right thing, only 5% to persuade.
Already the Unionists parties are starting to unravel, there will be another referendum and this time we will prevail!
As regards Alex Salmond I would hope he takes the lead in setting up a new independent voice in the media. He has the power to help raise the necessary finance and get this off the ground.
OK, I think I’m actually going to bow out now. I realise that this sort of thing is pretty crazy, but I hope you’ll understand just how desperate and frustrated I am.
I’m just very worried I’m going to lose my patience, and indeed my health, if we don’t learn from the result of the referendum. The fight is going to be much, much harder, and what’s worse, we’re going to have to suffer for another few years at the very least until we get our independence, be it a second referendum, or whatever other mechanism is employed.
@liz says: 29 September, 2014 at 6:43 pm:
“If anyone moans about what’s happening I’m going to say it’s what the nos voted for.”
Just so, Liz. This was the first day I managed out since referendum day as I had a daft wee accident and hurt my neck. The wee Papillon and I went to Kirkcaldy’s Chapel Level as she needed pet food among other things.
The wee dog is a trained befriender and few can resist her welcome and they stop to speak. I was surprised at the numbers who brought up the referendum. This as I still wore several YES badges on the woolly hat and my jacket.
To my surprise I ended up with an impromptu Yes meeting outside the pet shop with six or seven total strangers. Then several other’s along the shops with ones and twos. Seems the public has not nearly had enough of the independence subject.
So do say, “it’s what the NOs voted for”, but say it with your YES badges proudly showing.
@Tartan Tories
Yep, completely agree.
[…] To the fifty-five percent who backed fear and greed, Westminster thanks you, they get to bomb people, they get to make you pay for austerity and distract you with that funny bloke who runs UKIP, British politics can get back to business as usual. […]
Cuilean says:
29 September, 2014 at 8:59 pm
At the last GE in 2010 there was a 63.8% turnout. Total voting 2,465,722. At the Referendum on 18 September 2014, there was a turnout of 84.6%. Total voting 3,283,392 (3,429 votes invalid). 1,617,989 YES to 2,001,926 NO. Now let’s assume, fired up and raging YES all come out again all 1,617,989 of us.
Remember to deduct the 16-17 y/o
Taranaich, it’s OK to sound off on Wings. You saying you feel like supporting UDI isn’t going to make it happen, and it makes for an interesting conversation. So carry right on venting.
@Taranaich –
The frustration is almost unbearable.
The last few days have been grim. It’s as if the initial shock has worn off, anger has blazed briefly, but then the realisation has slammed home – ‘normal service has been resumed’.
‘Normal service’ = endless Westminster rule, war, misery and hopelessness.
It feels as if Scotland is wearing a gimp suit and is securely locked in the cellar where no-one can hear us scream.
I’m very very close to giving up the ghost. If it wasn’t for my pals here, and in the SSP, I would’ve chucked it by now.
@Ian Brotherhood
It feels like that but 45 per cent voted for independence, could you have predicted that 10 years ago? I could not have. Others got deceived by the Devo max talk.
@midgehunter 11:04 pm
I agree with you coordination and cooperation is sorely needed. However the platform must get to all the population not just CYBERNATS & converted. Radio/tv is the choice of most elderly people in the morning and therefor needs to meet EBC MSM head on and hold them to account and question any propaganda they shove out. I’m sure we have people capable of organising it.
I think Salmond’s point about UDI was made to counter the threats to remove the chance of Scotland ever having a referendum again. But I could be wrong.
Taranaich
Once the fracking starts under all the complacent middle class households we will see a big shift. It’s comin yet for aw that. Yesterday I was trying to work out how to stop this absurd abomination but today I’m coming to the conclusion it may be the way to get a huge yes vote and soon.
You make some good points about UDI but it would be great to get the whole country galvanised behind independence.
Ian is right though – you are a strong voice on this site and I thank you for your invaluable insight, always.
Even writing the words: “Westminster cares about the Scottish people” seems so laughable that I am surprised my Samsung spellchecker doesn’t transform them into something more believable. We are all awake, but the no-voters will win this for us and soon.
G’night
@Ian Brotherhood
Chin up mate. No fucking way can any of us give up. Bending over for Osborne and Balls is not on the agenda. It’s a hard slog, a very hard slog but it will be them getting a kick in the nuts in Scotland come may next year.
Even my wife was telling me today that two No voters in her office are now wondering if they did “the right thing”. After watching the labour and Tory party conferences they know they didn’t do “the right thing” and I hope are ashamed.
Your party has 2000 more members including me and my son and need the likes of you there to learn from. You’ll get over this and a renewed desire for justice will be the result.
Stick with it for all our sakes.
We’ve all had a tough ten days. We’ve lost a referendum that most of us believed we’d win. We’ve also (apparently) lost the leadership figure of the SNP, albeit temporarilly. Life is not what we expected, but I’m minded to recite a prayer and, although I’m not a church-goer, the words apply all the same:
God, grant me the grace to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can change, and the wisdom to know the difference.
I am getting through the days with the knowledge that we can still change something next May. It’s not that far away!
YESGUY
Enlightening link their mate.
Not sure what Eck’s been up to but hope Mrs Eck doesn,t find out 🙂
Well apparently Nicola has already said an 2nd indy will not be ruled out on ITV on 24th.
link to itv.com
Also on twitter someone said that a very reliable source overheard GB saying he would not fight for devomax as it would destabilise the WM labour vote.
Of course that was on twitter and cant be proved.
@ Ian (and Taranaich)
Please don’t give up!
On Thursday night/Friday morning, one of my fellow counting agents was almost packing her bags to get out of here, anywhere, Estonia….
But she didn’t. She was at our meeting last week, and I fully expect to see her again this week. In 1975, after the Common Market referendum, I was heading for Iceland (I opposed the European project from the left, and still do, though this isn’t the place to discuss that), but as you know, I’m still here.
I expect it to be grim. Towards the end, amid all the enthusiasm and momentum, I wondered if I had been painting too bleak a picture of the likely consequences of a No vote, but that delusion is past.
It is my duty now (and I don’t really like the concept of duty, unless it’s my choice, as this is) to do what I can to mitigate, to maintain the strength we gathered, and to never, never, let the bastards grind me down.
I was idly scanning Google maps, I have to admit. But hey, I’m Scottish. I don’t get to pick that, it just is. And Scotland just happens to be the most stunningly beautiful country in the entire world. I’m staying.
Unless Jim Murphy becomes FM, in which case all bets are off.
@liz
Nicola Sturgeon said that last week. She is going far that one.
Ooops that was last week… 😀
@fred blogger says: 29 September, 2014 at 8:12 pm:
“ScottieDog
it actually makes citizens (subjects as we truely are in the unions eyes), subservient to business interests.”
Matter of fact, Fred Blogger, as, ‘One of the People of Scotland’, you are legally sovereign under Scottish Law and Scotland is not part of, “A constitutional Monarchy”. The constitutional monarchy came about in 1688 in the three country Kingdom of England because the parliament of England, still then independent, deposed the monarch they shared with Scotland and imported King Billy & Mary but removed from them the Royal veto over the parliament of England. Thus began the Constitutional monarchy.
However, as Scotland was still independent that did not change the Scottish monarchy. The English still call the resultant Jacobite uprisings, “The Jacobite Rebellion”, but you cannot rebel against a monarch not legally your own. This was why England conspired to force a Treaty of Union and also the reason the Scots insisted that their legal system remained independent. It also was the reason that Scottish Education remained independent and the monarch is NOT head of the church in Scotland.
Ya know all these articals on here we read, I don’t know why us yessers are surprised.
Progressive Scotland will come slowly but surely with devo. They’ll rip off Scotland again but they will have to give up something and then we take it from there.
Chin up people. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
@crazycat & Alex –
Cheers both.
Nah…me no chuck in the proverbial.
Just at a very low ebb, and hurting: too much bevvy (which doesn’t even ‘work’); not enough quality sleep; the voices of unhinged Tories and SLabbers fill the airwaves; so many windows all across the Three Towns, Kilwinning Prestwick, Ayr and Irvine which, two weeks ago, were festooned with YES material, are once again empty; BTUKOKVNOBNOTHANKS liars, cheats and terrormongers taunt and gloat; avoiding No-voting neighbours because I can’t trust meself not to tear a strip off them for being so fucking ignorant and selfish.
It wouldn’t hurt so much if it didn’t mean so much. At least, now, we know precisely what we’re up against, and it doesn’t involve paranoia or conspiracy theories – these brutal, soulless fuckers have exposed themselves, and their intent is clear. They will do to us what Thatcher did to the miners – Daily Mail readers will provide a standing ovation for each and every blow they land on our weakest kin.
Taranaich is right to be fuming – we are being humiliated, chastised and suffocated by people who don’t give a fuck about us. We have to fight them – there is no choice.
Agree completely.
I’m feeling lost and don’t know what to do. But I need to do something. I object to everything about WM, MP’s, War, Fracking, MSM, penalising the poor and the ill, what the hell is happening? Luckily I sleep well as my medication makes me sleepy, but during the waking hours I feel so helpless. What has happened to our humanity? Have similar neighbors to you, don’t want to go out. Walk away if I catch a glimpse of them, they do not care. Places I once loved are now spoiled, I look at people I don’t know and wonder if they voted No. Union jacks are flying over too many local houses, I want to burn them down.
I think the worst thing is that I know many are happy with all the things I find despicable.
@ Ian – Taranaich
Why on earth should you want to give up?
We’ve gone from 25% to 45%, we are starting the last couple of laps from a totally different baseline than two years ago.
We know who we have on our side, the arguments learned and will be much more concentrated than ever before. We had WM on the rocks and they are still not making much headway to get off.
We should send in Bugger T Panda with the 10th armoured Panda division, that’ll sort them out… 😉
I think all of us are up and down because it meant so much.
On the morning of the 18th I woke up shaking, did polling duty then count duty and left to go home abt 3 in the am.
A group of us yessers were outside the counting station feeling like shit.
Oh and as you might know, I was at east ren count and a hooray henry guy was at my shoulder when they knew they were winning and was saying in a condescending manner – oh one more vote for you, I see, I felt like landing him one.
Then spent 2 days in bed decided I was emigrating to Ireland, then got boosted by the 45 activity.
These are ruthless bastards, every last one of them.
I don’t know what’s going to happen but we must try at least one more time.
Correct me if I’m wrong but Scotland will need a UDI because Westminster aren’t going to grant another referendum anytime soon if ever.
1. Westminster break their promise. (How much time are they allowed to hold up their end of the bargain)
2. We have another referendum against the will of Westminster.
3. We get a Yes result that will be declared illegal by Westminster.
4. We have a UDI ( would probably need to be a decent Yes result).
I’m not sure of the timeframe, I would imagine more than a couple of years.
What we need is some of that old Wartime spirit albeit with a 21st century Britain twist. Maybe a revamp of WWII poster.
“Beg for Britain!”?
I first got the notion of Independence in 1976, and 18th September 2014, in all that time, was the first time I had the chance to put an X in a box in a referendum, and perhaps make it happen (well, previous Friday by postal vote in case I was away).
There was the cheated 1979 Devolution, I argued with shop stewards who were going to vote NO because “it was a bad bill”. Ah well. Then 1997 – a huge step on the way.
I can wait another couple of years until the next Independence Referendum.
It won’t be long now.
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On the issue of UDI we don’t need that nor another referendum what we need are protests like those in Hong Kong calling for either independence and/or another referendum. Should enough take to the streets the SNP can simply say we are obeying the majority wishes of the people.
Actually if all or most of the 45% of us who voted YES took to the streets in protest that alone could spark another referendum.
@YESGUY –
Couldn’t have said it better meself…
Re distribution of new SNP members, Dumfries East branch apparently normally get 20-30 folk at meetings, tonight they expected maybe 40. There were over 200, standing room only & queues out the door.
In Dumfries!
Something has changed
@YESGUY
Has somebody screwed with your computer?
Your posts are important to this site, never forget that.
@ian @taranaich
We had a branch meeting this evening (not yr party Ian – but still..) Three times the usual number. Some ruthless analysis of where we could have done more. But an utter determination to get on to the next stage.
Among other things, we decided we needed to get out to our Yes voters. We activists have had the consolation over the last week of getting together and consoling each other. But there are people out there who are feeling just as gutted, without that network. So we are going to visit them – tell them we are still here, still hopeful, still fighting.
The best cure for the blues is to get back out on the streets. Dig deep. It’s what Scotland always does in defeat.
Mmm, well I too have bounced a bit but found refuge in humour. And by luck my wife dug out the box set of Still Game, made all the better by Greg Hemphill (Victor) joining the SNP last week.
As to what to do, I suggest making ourselves more knowledgeable as a background task. There’s a good article by Aileen McHarg, Professor of Public Law at the University of Strathclyde, who started neutral and ended up pro-indy, and theres a lot of good articles on that site, a few from pro-indy contributors, a bit of a mix for the rest.
link to scottishconstitutionalfutures.org
@kininvie
Good advice, I hadn’t even thought of that. I have many family and friends who voted Yes and will be feeling just as demoralised as the rest of us.
Let’s go and make them feel better, give them the good news about how all pro-indy membership has risen dramatically and that we are still up for the fight.
Let’s start telling them now how we plan to rid ourselves of not just the Tories but especially Labour MPs in 2015 and MSPs in 2016. Now is the time yo build momentum while the Unionist parties are squabbling amongst themselves about who can kick the most vulnerable the hardest.
Cheers Kininvie.
Heard earlier this evening that Ayrshire SSP has approximately 150 new members. In branch meetings prior to Sep 18th, we were averaging 15-20, which was triple the attendance of a year ago.
YESGUY
I’m out of touch with these things now, but downloading malwarebytes is a good start, it cleaned my kids computers up a few years ago:
link to malwarebytes.org
There’s a free download.
After that, ccleaner and winaso are also good to clean up, you get a faster computer and possibly rid of some registry entries that can cause re-infection. There’s one or two forums that give great advice and even help on an individual basis, sometimes they recommend using hijackthis or some such name to check out even more. Good luck!
@Alex –
Do you know where your local branch is?
Depending how ‘local’ it is (bearing in mind the number of new members) you may have to start up your own!
Perhaps we need an ‘Underground Railroad’ to get our young out of the country if that National Service bill goes through. Taranaich, I fully understand where you’re coming from and it is indeed frustrating to see what people in the UK are prepared to tolerate. I often despair at the public’s seeming shallowness and lack of intelligence, just as you do.
At the moment though, I think it’s best to focus on the campaign of eradication we can wage on the Westminster Party, the Presstitutes and the BBC. We have plenty of work to occupy us in destroying this unholy trinity and cleansing Scotland of them. Harness your anger and use it towards these goals for now.
Or indulge yourself with daydreams of punching Ian Davidson repeatedly about the coupon. Don’t actually do it of course; appealing as the idea is, it’s also a wee bit illegal!
This article, also from a self-professed indy supporter, don’t read it until you’ve had a good sleep and feel more upbeat.
I don’t agree with the conclusion about the length of time it’ll take, nor about big majorities being hard to overcome in 2015, but it gives a good overview of what we’re up against. Including fragmentation, which a lot of people have been talking about – and taking steps to reverse or prevent. It also talks about media platforms.
link to scottishconstitutionalfutures.org
Well, back to work, I’m actually feeling quite upbeat myself …
Taranaich says:
That’s my cousins the Tories are planning on putting into National Service.
You can relax on that score, Taranaich
Latest news on the National Service Bill 2013-14
The Bill failed to complete its passage through Parliament before the end of the session. This means the Bill will make no further progress.
link to services.parliament.uk
@Taranaich
I’m normally very polite and i think as understanding as i can be “BUT” if you’re on medication i suggest you take it, because you really are the most depressed individual,and certainly not healthy for people who might already be a tad down right now and trying to brighten up the lives of others
I for one dont like the continual sound of “CAN’T” being repeated over and over, we just had a Referendum full of people talking like that
If you must pontificate, do it in what i’m sure is your empty house
I’m stopping now coz you might depress me!!
@Ian Brotherhood
I don’t know where my local branch is yet, but not an issue. Don’t laugh but I used to play chess quite seriously in fact but was never much good. Can you believe that two members of the small chess club in Dundee were also at one time members of the SSP!
I’ve lost touch with them for a couple of years but will be getting back in touch soon, even though I’m in the middle of nowhere one of them is only a ten minute drive away.
I wonder if they have both joined again? If not I think I could persuade them to 🙂
manandboy
Yes, and military service was only one of the options, others were social or charitable works and others.
So sad that the UK poor are to be punished like this today for a complete falsehood, to pay for an imaginary war against what are really mercenaries working for the west, whilst the attacks by the US and UK will really be designed to destroy the infrastructures of Iraq and Syria and kill their innocent civilians, but NEVER the west’s own mercenary ISIS.
Read the following excellent article exposing the terrifying truth about the so-called ‘war’ against ISIS;
Obama’s Phony War On Islamic State Militants
By Stephen Lendman
9-29-14
Thank you, Morag. I’ve just written a long post about polling day, which I’ll share when it’s done. I think it angried up the blood a bit!
It can feel like that at time, yes. But I think after I’ve rested just a bit longer, I’ll be back in the saddle. “Normal service has been resumed” – like hell it has!
A point I hasten to make: given how the SNP have operated, I have faith that UDI would – indeed, could – only be announced with popular consent. By that point, I do have to believe that people would indeed come around. That 45% is not going to shrink. The problem is, then we would be facing Catalunya’s problem then – a populace that wants independence, but won’t be recognized by the central government.
Believe me, I wouldn’t even entertain UDI until I was confident the majority of people wanted it. It’s just getting a bit frustrating waiting for the penny to drop.
Oh, I’m not giving up, not on your nelly! I’m just venting a bit. By “bow out,” I meant I wouldn’t talk about UDI any more. For now, at least. 🙂
Same for me. This is my country, my people, my home. I’m not going to move out because I can’t stand the government. They’re not going to force me out.
I just joined the SNP. After ages of saying how much I hated the idea of parties, I decided to bite the bullet and go with the one party which has a) proven to put the people of Scotland first, and b) proven competence as a government. The way the SNP, Greens, and SSP have worked with each other throughout the campaign was exemplary, and made me far more amenable to a future independent Scotland’s party politics.
Too true. I have several New Labour politicians (I am making a point of NEVER using the term “Labour” unless I’m talking about Keir Hardie’s party, or “Scottish Labour” in any circumstances) in my figurative sights right now, I’ve been working with the local SNP, Green and SSP folk in Inverclyde on a plan of attack. For the few months I’m going to make it my personal mission to unseat Iain McKenzie. Then I’m coming for Duncan McNeill, and every New Labour councillor in Inverclyde.
I was content to accentuate the positive during the referendum. But elections are not referenda. Nova Labor Delenda Est.
Thank Christ for that.
Thanks for the concern, Dr Jim! Really, I think I just needed to vent. I do, however, suffer from clinical depression, which is why I can be pretty bad with this. But if it helps, what I feel in depression is more than matched by what I feel in hope. It’s just hard for the two to coexist at times!
@ Taranaich. Keep on Keeping on. And more power to your pen my Friend.
Well, took me long enough, and I really should get some sleep, but here’s
what I did in my school holidaysmy account of the 18th and 19th of September, 2014.link to wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com
Once again, my heartfelt thanks to everyone on Wings for supporting me through my emotional rollercoaster, I can only hope I’ve contributed to buoying your own emotions. Despite my flaky meltdown earlier, I am full of nothing but hope and optimism for the independence movement – it’s my feelings about the UK which are utterly wrecked.
It’s a bit like a horror movie, where the hero (Better Together) thinks the monster (Yes) is dead, only for it to SPRING BACK TO LIFE AND LUNGE AT THE CAMERA WITH A JUMP SCARE then credits!
Or maybe Scotland is Superman to Westminster’s Zod in this clip. Everyone think’s he’s doomed. Everyone thinks the Union has won, and that Scotland must now KNEEEEEL before Westminster. Only…
link to youtube.com
All you Wings ‘leaders’ have to hang in there. Please.
Everything is all over the place just now and so many people are tired and discouraged. There’s a lot of angst about what went wrong, conspiracy theories and anger. I think as Scots, even though we have a fierce, warrior reputation at other times, are far too ‘nice’ and we’re a peace loving nation more in common with the Scandinavians in that respect. I don’t mean that as derogatory (the fact we’re loved and admired the world over is because of that nice part of us) but I mean when it came to the referendum we were far too ‘nice’ and I think the gloves really do need to come off. It was grand to be positive and send out that message but there were times I felt the Scottish government could have cracked down harder on opponents. There is a time to be hard nosed and aggressive with fools and people who want to put you down. There’s nothing wrong with being nationalist but we need a firm strong hand to guide and lead the way. Kinda like Stu does on here, he keeps this all together, and we all appreciate when things are going off that he steps in and thumps down hard. Good leadership. I also think that everyone needs to huddle together and not fragment, a strong, hard leader will do that and that’s what Scotland desperately needs now.
Well, I’m not a politically savvy person, and have been a stay at home mum for many years, so you’ll have to forgive my over simplified way of looking at things. I also found some very good points here that might help to shed some light .
link to wp.me
I am Popeye and I have started to eat my spinnach.
Look out Blooto.
Robert Peffers and Fred Blogger.
No, not subjects, subjugated consumers.
@Luigi
re Schroedinger’s offer of paraphernalia for 5th Nov Indie do, Guy Fawkes was one of the few people to have entered Parliament with honorable intentions.
Apart from that, the idea of a knees up on the 5th, bonfire, fireworks is for our morale.
Any idea of blowing up Westminster is purely allegorical, albeit a bloody good metaphorical ideal.
Why does Gideon up top look like an Italian Mafia hood?
Can someone please quantify how much Scottish wealth disappears into Westminster’s war-mongering coffers. I have lost count at 5 trillion per annum. Remember to include: gas, oil, coal, forestry, fishing, whisky, vat, income tax, excise duty (petrol/diesel, cigarettes & alcohol), corporation tax, stamp duty, crown estates, energy (wind, wave, hydro, solar, nuclear, gas-, oil- and coal-fired)? Official government statistics would be preferred, or are they pathologically incapable of telling the truth?
@Jim IVY
World bank reckons whole UK gdp to be about 2.5 trillion USD. So you may have a decimal point sticking on the pocket calculator there ma man.
But it would be useful to know exactly what the true figures for Scotland’s economy are. For the battle ahead we need good verifiable statistics that can be relied on.
My favourite campaign statistic was the number of parking spaces at Faslane – where pointy shouty man claimed 8k people worked – snigger!
@
davidb says:
That is easy davidb, four.
All the rest of the workers arrive by submarine and are never really seen, except if you have Jackie Baillie glasses.
@Weedeochandoris
Ten days ago is history and the time to break out the kleenex was on the 19th. We can either thrash about in blind rage and despair or we can reorganise with the tens of thousands of members gained between the independence supporting parties and kick bottom. We can make Scotland ungovernable by Westminster with those numbers and believe me they will grow as soft or scared nos are faced with a far more terrifying future in reality than the fantasy they bought into driven by Westminster and the media.
I’m not one for staying on the ground when someone puts me on my arse. I tend to get back up again and get right back in their face. The referendum was a farce in terms of how the opposition conducted their campaign and I’m fucked if I’ll wait twenty years for another go based on their utterly underhand and twisted campaign of lies and terror. That wasn’t a free and democratic vote or campaign by any stretch of the imagination and I don’t respond well to threat or having those I care about threatened, so basically what I’m saying is let’s get angry and put that anger to constructive electoral use.
Instead of disappearing quietly we stay on line, as others are doing even now expand into cross platform media. We get louder, not quieter. We electorally hound and harry the fuckers out of office and put in place people who put the needs of the Scottish electorate first and foremost. The liars, the deceivers, the thieves, grafters and careerists take fucking note. Your day is about to turn really bad.
As for those media pricks who gleefully set about spreading terror among the population at large? How are those readership figures coming along this month? I hope have night terrors about dole queues and standing next to the people you shafted.
Scotland’s gone now from UKOK media, which is pretty quick even for our friends in the south. Still lots to go WTF at though.
link to archive.today
“Hong Kong is the best example of the power of information. Because of its free press and free speech inherited from the period of British colonial rule, knowledge and information have been disseminated, creating a comparatively healthy civil society environment for young people. Students now in the streets of Hong Kong are informed citizens with a critical mind trying to contribute to positive social change, exactly what is advocated in citizenship education in liberal democratic societies.
But this sort of freedom is now under siege, as is evident when television stations’ licenses are renewed selectively depending on their politics, and when editors of newspapers critical of the Beijing government are physically attacked by unknown gangster”
The Guardian, rancid hypocrisy with all the trimmings, replace HK with SCO.
1 million YES marches in Glasgow? Fcuk aye.
I suppose they can send Iain Gray out for the pieces at lunchtime.
In answer to posts ruminating over why so many voted No.
The only thing that will alter the minds of so many is if new policies hit their pocket.
They voted as most humans do – selfishly – to protect their pocket unconvinced an independent Scotland will protect their income or increase it.
The rest of the No’s are unquestioning Anglophiles, or think Salmond leader of a satanic cult. (The latter are idiots unworthy of attention.)
In any new move to self-governance the vast majority of No’s should be made to find themselves at the end of No campaign ethic, fearful of tomorrow, more fearful in their mind than self-determination. Make them choose what they erroneously think to be the lesser of two evils.
It will be very helpful to have them placed in a state of panic over Westminster about to steal their standard of living. For that’s exactly what is about to happen.
The worst of both worlds has arrived, a weakened Scottish Parliament and an aggressive Westminster administration.
They brought it upon themselves. Let them know in no uncertain terms we reject it.
Ask them what they plan to do about it.
Ask them if they enjoy humiliation as a cultural norm.
O/T but folks should read this and pass it on to any English connections
link to anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk
It is the conclusion that needs to get out to the English Voters. Please pass it on.
If UKIP is 90% bankrolled by former Tory donors and is full of ex-Tory politicians and activists, what grounds does anyone have to suspect that they’re not just a Tory splinter group?
Remember, the BBC is giving this party a lot of air time, and the rest of the Meeja isn’t far behind.
We need to remember, that whilst Mr. Guy Fawkes did have one populist idea (blowing up Westminster), his motivation was not something which would appeal to most Scots. Angry about the protestant Scottish King James VI, taking the English crown, he intended, in his own words, “to blow you Scotch beggars back to your native mountains.”
The politics of Westminster are somewhat tame nowadays, in comparison.
My honest opinion is it is much more sound to arrange a mass get together of some kind on St.Andrews day (30th Nov), rather than the day people ‘celebrate’ the anti Scottish and religious bigot, Guy Fawkes.
Well we cant say we didnt warn people take it theres no jam tomorrow after all like we all knew these people are really despicable aint they wheres the empathy for the poorest and most vulnerable….they have none we get to pay for a war that noone here wants when are the people gonna wake up and destroy westminster, we cant leave things like this why do the poor have to pay for the riches crimes our so called leaders have forgotten who they actually work for and no its not the big corporations its BLOODY WELL US. We know that they english will vote the tories in probably a hung parliment with ukip and as usual because of the demcratic defecit we have no real way of maintaining balance everyone who voted no voted for this and god do i hope that the hammer hits them as well they really really deserve it.
Does anyone know where wee Ruthie is to be ‘questioned under caution’ today?
There doesn’t seem to be much about in the MSM…
Heedtracker reply Why would those terrible terrorists have to do all those things when all they would have to do is pull up a few miles of submarine gas pipelines from Norway, Holland, and Belgium at the same time to be really bad terrorists, considering England imports over 50% of its gas and it’s predicted to rise to 75% by 2015 you wouldn’t like that as a Xmas present. That’s the problem when you export your own form of terrorism, it tends to come back by means of the most unexpected mechanism.
For the enemy is not without intellect or creativity.
@heedtracker says: 30 September, 2014 at 12:07 am:
“Progressive Scotland will come slowly but surely with devo. They’ll rip off Scotland again but they will have to give up something and then we take it from there.
Oh! Aye! heedtracker, thing is I’m an old guy, I’m now disabled and I cannot wait that long. The game changes now because we have something we never had before, a signed pledge from the three main parties and we have every legal right to demand they honour their vow. But note this – Alistair Darling is just a back bencher from a party that is not in power and Gordon Brown is even worse as he is the same but has effectively declared himself an non politian who almost never attends to the business his electorate pay him for. The undisputed fact, though, is that both spoke on behalf of the Westminster Establishment who have not disassociated themselves from the dirty duo.
“Chin up people. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Naw! Rome wisna biggit in ae day bit Glenrothes, an twa/three ither new toons, wir nearly owernicht sensations an Ah’m noo frae the Kingdom o Fife. Ah’m no waiting aboot.
Let us, as a nation, demand that the Westminster Establishment, (not as individual parties), meet the commitment they made by that collective party leaders vow. That is their mistake. No one party or government at Westminster has ever been able to be held to account for manifestos made by any other government in power or individual party – UNTIL NOW. We have a signed collective vow.
If they do not now deliver the World is watching and the Westminster Establishment can, and will, be held to account but only if a united 45% of the people of Scotland stay united for there is nothing more certain than the other 55% are a politically fractured group of disparate clan followers of disparate political parties that are only united as, “The Westminster Establishment”.
If you know your history, the only time those disparate parties have ever united is to face a common enemy that threatened the Westminster Establishment. Not only that but previously the Establishment called upon the British Empire for help. Now the common enemy to the Westminster Establishment comes from one of the two kingdoms that legally form the United Kingdom.
It is only because the Establishment has changed itself into the de facto parliament of England ruling over the other three countries and thus making the once bipartite United Kingdom into a quadratic set-up with an England dominated quadratic union of four countries we have arrived at this vow of the entire Westminster Establishment. Let us do all four former United Kingdom countries a favour and end this already broken Union.
Grouse beater reply Why?
Too Wee, Too poor, Too stupid, TOO SCARED
Has the Daily Record been in a comma for the past few months and is now just realising how f’uk’d up things are.
They must think we are all zipped up at the back. Well clearly some of us are, I’ll give you that.
Conan the Librarian
I wonder if her interview video will be “released” just as Tommy Sherriden’s Wife’s interrogation was?
One law for Tommy and one for everybody else?
Devo would be a good opportunity to show the NO voters that an autarkic Scotland is economically viable.
In a situation like this, one must grasp every little mote of opportunity and turn it to one’s own advantage.
Heard Jim Naughtie interview Dave. No mention about Scotland and /or the VOW. The only context was whether he,Dave, would be as heartbroken about the result of the EU referendum as he said he was about Scotland’s. Apparently he cares 1000 times more about the UK than about the EU.
Well that’s OK then. Journalist, Scottish, Naughtie ?…Bollocks
My honest opinion is it is much more sound to arrange a mass get together of some kind on St.Andrews day (30th Nov),
Sounds like a good idea. Castlegate Aberdeen? George Sq., Glasgow, City Sq. Dundee.?
Let’s show em we ain’t going anywhere, we are growing and we are coming back, bigger than ever!
For love o f$&^$ing god Stu, would you just go on holiday. Please.
I like how SKY, BBC MSMs are all giving HongKong lots of airtime. They are calling the students Pro Democracy Campaigners.
When Scottish people were campaigning for Democracy we were called bloody Separatists!
link to heraldscotland.com
I can’t remember ever voting for this dude but it’s pretty clear why our masters in England made him overseer. Troughing like a champ
“Robert Oxley of campaign group TaxpayerScotland criticised the salary, saying: “Lord Smith of Kelvin is pocketing a frankly astonishing amount of taxpayers’ money for just one day’s work. The Green Investment Bank is a gimmick that doesn’t deliver.”
“Lord Smith’s remuneration in other posts includes £250,498 as chairman of Weir Group for 2012, £353,000 as Scottish and Southern Energy chairman for 2013 and about £83,000 as director of South Africa-based Standard Bank.”
And there’s Weir Group too. Interesting headline from rancid Herald on councils now using 2014 referendum electoral registers to hunt for unpaid council tax next to photo of Alex Salmond on golf course.
UKOK media has many things to say to their Scotland region.
After the impromtu mass Gay Gordons outside the Scottish Parliament on Saturday, why not turn any mass rally or mass event into a ceilidh, the biggest ceilidh in the world on St Andrews Day, right across Scotland?
So far right, your nads hurt Press and Journal, thrilled that Prince Wills or Harrs wants to auction a portrait of himself for charidy. TeamGB media, local, national vomit inducing.
regarding the suggestion “It would be nice if the SG could set up new Scottish bank, repatriate our billions from Bank of England to it and use them to fund new currency. (more depositors welcome too!)”
Why not take the first steps to leave Sterling? How difficult would it be to set to a Scottish Bitcoin working as a parallel pound? link to en.wikipedia.org
Or a Scottish version of Paypal? Paypal is now issuing traders with gadgets that allow paypal to be used in ordinary shops. I’d happily switch to a Scottish paypal to get the system going.
Maybe the Scottish government could consult the Isle of Man which is the world centre of experise in this area. The Isle of Man also uses Sterling and is not in the Sterling area – a fact that does not seem to have impacted negatively on the 36% of it GDP that arises from financial services.
The P&J is no longer on my to do list on a daily basis.
Our councils hunt unpaid council tax through electoral register and triumphant teamGB media say what?
link to archive.today
“I believe my generation is opting out of an obligation to pay to fully educate the much smaller generation behind it, and all at the instigation of some of the very best-off people – the key policymakers. In much of Europe, despite economic crisis, there are no maintenance fees, as students live with their parents and go to their local university. Tuition fees are usually extremely low or non-existent. But in this country, students must pay bigtime to line the pockets of the super-rich.”
Sir Ian Wood has a $2 bn fortune and he says its great in teamGB.
We need to be very afraid, Just heard the radio news and Teresa May is thinking of introducing a law banning ‘extremist’ groups from using the internet.
Specifically said we do not mean terrorist groups but anyone holding ‘extremist’ views – that means us folks
” avoiding No-voting neighbours because I can’t trust meself not to tear a strip off them for being so fucking ignorant and selfish.
It wouldn’t hurt so much if it didn’t mean so much. ”
I’m with you Ian , it hurts like hell and I find myself weeping in the most inappropriate places.
I have a clever friend who told me she had voted NO because there wasn’t enough ….She had been going on about Trident and “Will they get rid of it?” I said YES.
So having based all her queries on Trident she votes NO for Trident , Trident 2 and further radio active pollution of the Firth of Clyde. How in the name of the wee man do you square that?
One_Scot – I think you mean ” coma” – the Record wouldn’t know a comma and its usage if it stood up and bit it on the bum
@Conan_the_Librarian
Sadly we all know it wont matter, expect a Ruthie statement later today of “I was happy to co-operate with our beloved Bobbies and as expected, we had some nice tea and a chat and they confirmed I have no case to answer. God bless our troops!”
In order to get change started, I wonder why doesnt the Scottish Govt call a vote and change the Holyrood parliament to First past the Post. It would get rid of Ruth for a start.
Has the Daily Record been in a comma for the past few months and is now just realising how f’uk’d up things are.
It’s about time that awful rag’s life support machine was switched off.
They tell us we’ve had our debate over Independence now shut up you lost. No we didnt, have the debate I mean. There should be 4 parts to any debate Yes, which we had and did well, No, virtually non existent apart from a bit of we love Brenda and didn’t we do well in the war, Not Yes, alias Project Fear which we had in spades, and Not No, which also hardly existed apart from what will happen to the NHS at the end. So there wasn’t a proper debate and we missed a trick by not having a Not No organised.
What is a Not No campaign, one that points out that saying Scotland can’t go it alone is also saying UK cant go it alone, Westminster bombed Iraqis in the 1920s it didn’t work then and it wont work now, £25 billion of cuts means no bus pass etc. Stu’s WBB was the closest we got to a Not No campaign and that was just telling the truth! 😀
We are now heading for GE2015 and the SNP will still be nicey, nicey accentuating all the good things they will do, so again we wont have a proper debate, we’ll need somebody to do the Not Unionist role pointing out that far from keeping the Tories out voting Labour keeps the Tories in, £25 billion means a pension freeze, they’ve no idea how to get out of the IS war etc.
If the SNP is being nice, how, and who, do we get to publish the Not Unionist case so we don’t end up with people saying “I didn’t realise” again
@Macart YES! count me in!
liz says:
“Specifically said we do not mean terrorist groups but anyone holding ‘extremist’ views – that means us folks”
You are probably right. The MSM and a few politicians brand a site as extremist and next thing it gets banned. The poeple who only get their world view that way will think it’s OK.
The way to counter this is popularity. By definition any site with 100000s of followers must be mainstream. And mainstream, in what is left of this democracy, can’t be labelled extreme.
Ofcourse Cameron cares 1000 times more about keeping UK together than the EU, Scotland has oil remember, without it we would have our freedom in a heartbeat.
Has there been any sighting of our dear ex leader, Brown. Somebody must know where he is hiding.
I have not watched BBC, ITV or Sky news since the vote, and I do see why that would change. I cannot stomach the thought of watching and listening to people who were instrumental in the destruction of Scotland for their own self interests.
I have started to watch RT, and I have to say it is very refreshing and eye opening to see news reports about the UK and specifically the Tories with the blanket of bias removed.
@ Robert Peffers, I fully understand all of your points BUT…
THE VOW is almost certainly a fraud and if it even gets before the Commons before the next UKOK general election, it won’t get passed them.
So the simple test for THE VOW is a second and final referendum. Did NO voters vote NO because of Crash Gordon and his devomax/federal UK? A second referendum is the only electoral democratic test.
Except we don’t live in a democracy and the only way Scotland can have a second referendum is if Westminster “gives” us one, which won’t happen for at least another 30 years.
So its all over for a referendum. Pragmatically, devo nano is all Scotland is going to get but its one more step towards Scottish independence.
But I could be wrong:D
Good example of rich taking from everyone else as they can’t have people in control of Scottish energy. Rule Britannia, send in the UKOK goons.
link to newsnetscotland.scot
it is interesting to note that 36 times the number of polling stations 5579 = 200844.
the other thing is, were the 4.29m polling cards received by polling day?
many voters don’t have full access to info.
Perhaps the new first minister should offer, publically, to keep another referendum off the table for at least 10 years, IF we get real devomax. Full fiscal autonomy, everything except defence and foreign affairs. Watered down tax repsonsibilities, benefits and airgun laws will not do. It’s either full devomax or independence. A big public offer to set the cat amongst the pigeons.
I know this will horrify some of the fundamentalists on here, but we have to be clever, really clever. IMHO it will take that long anyway before conditions are right again. Westminster would never agree to devomax anyway, but a big public offer makes them look like the problem, instead of those parties pursuing independence. And when they deny us again, then we go straight for full independence.
Forget Trident for just now – let’s aims for something we can win. Devomax had the support of 70% of the people – never forget that.
There is only one thing that is going to split the NO vote right down the middle:
Devomax.
I think if the fracking gets underway big time it will bring a lot of people out like the poll tax did. Fracking won’t respect the well off any more than the poor either. If their property is in the wrong place they’ll fall victim too. Maybe that will be the jag up the bum that’s needed, anything to jar them out of their complacency.
@Liz:
I don’t think this site registers as ‘extremist’. Besides, it could move from Britain to anywhere else in the world, especially the US. So that’s not a real menace.
@Heedtracker:
In much of Europe, despite economic crisis, there are no maintenance fees, as students live with their parents and go to their local university. Tuition fees are usually extremely low or non-existent.
I can confirm U in France is almost free. All you have to pay for is student social security, circa £100 per year. Colleges are more expensive, though. Those whose parents live in remote areas will have to pay the rent of their flat, but they can apply for state aids.
I followed up a link up-thread to the http://www.YesClydesdale.org (thanks Lollysmum) and from there to the YES Aberdeenshire site where I found a reference to Jimmy Reid:
“To me, New Labour has abandoned and betrayed all the principles that were fundamental to the Labour movement in Scotland”, Jimmy Reid declared.
“I have waited a long time to see forces emerging within the New Labour party that would bring the party back to its roots. But I have been waiting in vain and with every year that passes, Tony Blair and New Labour move further to the right. They are now indistinguishable from the Thatcherite Tories.
“To me the obvious alternative is available to us here in Scotland. The SNP is a social democratic party – that means it adheres to the values that the Labour movement was based on. I want to help it in this election and in future elections so that we can reverse the damage done by New Labour.””
link to snp.org
Could this be the way to enlighten the poor benighted Labour voters in East Renfrewshire and elsewhere who clearly know little about the founding principles of the Labour Party and Keir Hardie of “Home Rule” fame? Jimmy Reid would have trounced Jim Murphy.
@ Luigi
I don’t understand the advice that we should keep things like another referendum off the agenda. Haven’t you seen Dr Strangelove!? What is the point of having a devastating weapon at your disposal if you keep it secret?
It’s going to be pretty amusing watching the anti-EU brigade switch their position, and turn from UK unionists into ‘small minded nationalists’..
I wonder if the anti-EU side will be generally branded as ‘seperatists’ if we get an in-out referendum.
It’s all a joke anyway, because the UK retains far more sovereignty within the EU, than Scotland could ever dream of within the UK.
Why the devotion to devo-max? We had it for the 104 years between 1603 and 1707 and it didn’t work then. Why do people think it will work now?
Again we bombed hell out of the Iraqis in the 1920s to keep the peace in the Middle East. It didn’t work then. Why do people think it will work now?
Again we made the Depression worse by going on the Gold Standard in the 1930s. Why should Eliminating The Deficit work now?
It as if History has become invisible or Westminster is incapable of learning.
I think I’ve just answered myself.
O/T
I have just cancelled my TV License. Yesterday I cancelled the monthly Direct Debit for it, then today I notified them by telephone, Tel 0300 790 6131, I told the guy that I have cancelled the DD and will not be paying from now on.
I explained it was because of extreme Bias and will no longer watch live broadcasting. Also told him that I don’t want any visits from Capita staff regarding License. So he is putting that in writing for me and is posting it out, so if they do visit me, then THEY are breaking the law.
He also said I was due a refund, because everyone pays their License six months in advance, so I am waiting on a refund form coming out.
Can anyone on here back up what happened to me is the norm.
Is the refund form some kind of trap that I should avoid?
Look forward to some replies on this, TA.
@handclapping
This moan about SNP being too nice doent really stand up given that positive campaigning has given them a majority Govt where one was not expected to ever happen and also helped encourage such interest in Independence.
I know exactly what you saying about calling Westminster out but sadly i believe almost all No voters just dont care. Im not saying they are heartless, but just that they have a priority list beginning with ‘me and mine’ and anything else is so far down the list it hardly registers what Westminster does.
The belief that Scotland is this lovely socialist-minded warm hearted bosum clutching mother is very sadly a myth and the majority No vote showed this in spades.
Everyone knows or knew that devo max if it came down to a referedum, would win hands down.
Now WE KNOW Labour/Tories/Lib Dems, won’t be campaigning to get Devo Max.
So right there, we have an advantage on them. I am afraid at this stage gradualism is the way to go.
I agree with pointing out to unionists or no voters all the joy that awaits them, tell them of the debt, the deficit of the billions of unpaid tax unpaid by large corporations, tell them of the rise to their interest rates, tell them of house prices going down, tell them of fracking.
Yes Scotland and their nicey positive bullshit does not exist anymore. The gloves are off and it’s time to unleash the dogs of hell on the union. I’ve had enough.
@ Handclapping
“Why the devotion to devo-max? We had it for the 104 years between 1603 and 1707 and it didn’t work then. Why do people think it will work now?”
We did not have democracy in 1603 – 1707. Arguably we still don’t have it (no free press and corporate control of Westminster).
“Again we bombed hell out of the Iraqis in the 1920s to keep the peace in the Middle East. It didn’t work then. Why do people think it will work now?”
We didn’t bomb Iraq to keep the peace. We bombed it for oil, just as we are now. And to fund arms dealers.
See Robert Newman’s “History of Oil”
link to youtube.com
The new OIT report points out that about 48% of the people eligible to retirement cannot pretend to any pension (world statistics).
In the Western countries, the OIT notes that, due to the crisis, “the response of the various governments consisted in budget cuts affecting the health sector and other social aids, and/or a partial reform of the retirement regime, for example increasing the minimal age required to apply for retirement, diminishing the pensions and/or raising the contributions.”
These choices are, according the organisation, an economical error: “The potential backlash of austerity policies are only visible on a long-term basis. The corresponding slump in the net income of households leads to a reduction of inner demand, itself hobbling the economical rev-up.”
I see campaign groups involved ( both yes/ no ) in the Referendum are being asked to submit their views on WWW. Smith-commission .scot to be taken in to wider considerations .
Any thoughts?
Perception is everything, my friends.
Of course we want full independence, but we make them a big, public offer that is very difficult to refuse. Full devomax, or it’s another referendum quicker than Darling can blink.
And refuse they will, they are incapable of giving us devomax, and so we end up looking like the good guys when the next referendum is called. “We tried”!
Perception is everything – think clever. Call their bluff, make them look as bad as they really are.
With the mood of the country right now, devomax WILL split the NO vote. We have to be seen to be willing to compromise (in the short term). I know we should have won last week, but we didn’t and there is no point denying it. We can still win this in the long term, but we have to be clever.
The Daily Record has known all along how f’uk’d things would be. In fact they’re overjoyed it’s as bad as this so they can scream how evil the Tories are and how the only people who can save us from the horrors are the heroes in the Labour Party. It’s all part of their grand plan.
Not sure what their plan is in May when the Tories get back in and it’s clear Scotland’s getting Devo Eff All.
My rationale for suggesting a public offer to postpone another referendum, in return for real devomax, is that we regain the initiative in one stroke. Watch them squirm.
Why leave them to stich up something detrimental to everyone, when we can quickly put them back on the backfoot. We know they are not going to agree anyway, so where’s the harm in acting reasonable?
“Hold their feet to the fire!”
What are all these new recruits to pro-indy parties supposed to do? Well there are four distinct “types” that voted No. The selfish, the bigot, the ignorant and the scared.
We can forget all about the selfish and the bigots they are lost and may make up half of the the 55%. The new recruits and the parties themselves must focus on the other half.
We need to educate the ignorant and allay the fears of the scared.
Westminster will help us with this task with their broken promises and budget cuts. Our job is to highlight this at every opportunity to the man in the street, the media won’t do it for us.
Wings Over Scotland has a role to play in this and so too do you.
No independence supporter or voter should ever feel the need to buy the Daily Record.
Bombing Iraq has little if anything to do with defeating IS or whatever they’re called now. War makes money, war silences Scotland, war focuses everything on the war machine, war stops change and so on.
We had shock and awe Westminster style delivered hard and without mercy via BBC etc and then the UKOK nazi saluting thugs in George Square. What were they ready to do if it was 51% YES?
So next stage for teamGB, bury THE VOW, anhilate SNP.gov and above all make sure no new SNP MP for Westminster replaces the troughers and seat warmers of Labour in Scotland.
Dont complain, the silent majority of Scotland has spoken.
Handclapping
I think Luigi is right
independence is off the table, until may 2015:)
with independence “referendum over for a generation” (what I will be telling no voters on the door step, even if Nicola is not saying this, devo max or FFA will appeal to the no voters, especially those about to get fracked,
we need to win big in may to ensure we get FFA because I doubt we will get anything from Lord whatshisname’s commision
Here’s a thought to throw into the mix.
They won’t give us DevoMax. They might allow Edinburgh to raise the money it spends. What happens to all the tax we pay above and beyond this? Disappears to London never to be heard of again.
There is pressure in England for English MPs only voting on English only matters. Sounds reasonable, but there is a BIG financial difference!
Scottish MPSs will be spending ONLY Scottish tax revenue on Scottish matters.
English MPs will be spending SOME Scottish tax revenue on English matters.
This is Taxation without Representation!
There can only be English MPs voting on English matters, when they are spending English tax and NOT spending Scottish tax.
All Scottish tax revenue should be ring fenced and political accountability guaranteed at a Scottish or UK level. Never, at an England only level!
I think is this is important and shouldn’t be allowed to slip under the radar. They will try to do it!
O/T somewhat but this is worth a look. Somebody coming out and telling it like it is re the bombing of Syria. (Ex marine, war veteran). link to m.facebook.com
One group I missed was those that couldn’t be bothered to get off their arse and even vote. Many I suspect will be the most disadvantaged and will have heard yesterday from Osborne that they are about to get poorer over the next two years at least.
Maybe next time they will be more motivated.
The Quebec referendum in 1980 voted 40.5% Yes 59.5% No on a turnout of 84.3%.
The second referendum 15 years later in 1995 voted 49.4% Yes 50.6% No on a turnout of 93.5%.
I doubt Scotland will have to wait 15 years for a second referendum but no matter when, now is the time to drum up support. Scotland will vote Yes and a higher turnout next time will ensure this.
We are the establishments biggest nightmare and will be in their heads every night as this movement is not going to go away anytime soon.
People are wondering what they should be / can do just now?
Just had an email requesting what stance my reps should take in the GE?
Just emailed back and asked , well that depends on the new powers…
Now let’s get the message out to every pro Indy person
Many UK wide unions made their stance clear pre Referendum, let’s ask them now post Referendum , what position are they taking in the run up to the GE and how can they have a position representing any employee in Scotland until we know what the new powers are?
If we get (big if) FFA there is still no guarantee regarding being able to stop fracking, after all its the prize to Iain Wood for his “help” with the figures. It seems to me that FFA will still leave a huge amount of power with Westminster that would be better served at Holyrood
Jim Sillars has a 3 Point Plan to get out of the Union:–
Sounds good to me.
link to 1001campaign.com
Cadogan Enright says:30 September, 2014 at 10:23 am:
“Why not take the first steps to leave Sterling? How difficult would it be to set to a Scottish Bitcoin working as a parallel pound? link to en.wikipedia.org“
Oh! I’m sure our Westminster Establishment masters would just love us to do that.
In the first place the Treaty of union made the pound Sterling the currency of the United Kingdom so it is every bit as much Scotland’s pound as it is that of the three countries of the Kingdom of England. Secondly, the treaty agreed that the Scottish based banks had legal right to print their own Pound Sterling Banknotes so we already have a distinctive Scottish currency. The Treaty agreed that every Scottish banknote, (banknotes are actually promissory notes, (IOUs)), that the Scottish situated banks printed had to be backed up by a Bank of England, (which BofE, incidentally is NOT English as it was nationalised in 1946 so it belongs to both partner kingdoms of the Treaty of Union), so Scottish currency has the total value of Scottish currency deposited in a vault in the BofE and it earns interest as does any bank deposit. That money legally belongs to Scotland as does a negotiable share of the BofE. It is negotiable because there is no mention in the Treaty of the two signatory Kingdoms being other than equally sovereign nor of shares split on the current population ratios as the Westminster Establishment would have you believe.
Thus all Scotland needs do is declare the Scottish pound as an independent Scottish currency and then has two options. It can leave the deposited BofE notes in the BofE account and thus, whether it likes it or not, the Kingdom of England, (you cannot have an rUK when one of its only two partners disunites it). Or stated another way you cannot have a union of kingdoms with only one kingdom. So thus The BofE, by default, becomes a lender of last resort. It has to, on demand, return the deposited BofE banknotes it holds for guarantee of Scotland’s banknotes. It also stands to lose Scotland’s share in the Company that is the Westminster Establishment owned BofE. Not to mention it would lose the contribution of Scottish exports being dealt with in Sterling,
So Scotland has a distinctive currency automatically tied to Sterling but can, at any time just withdraw her English Bank holdings from the BofE and sell, (on the open market), her shares in the BofE as a company to the highest bidder. So, Cadogan Enright, why do things the hard way? We already hold all the best cards in this game of political poker. Let us then call the Westminster Establishment’s bluff, for that is all it actually is. We can do better without them but they will struggle without us. All these dire threats are no more than the same type of, “Willie Waving”, and claims to, “Punch above their weight”, that is the normal modus operadi of the Westminster Establishment.
Not wanting to preach to the converted but has everyone spoke to friends and relatives about boycotting the scaremongering companies, organisations etc?
My family are going to as much measures as possible to boycott your Asda’s, B&Q’s, newspapers etc.. not forgetting the dreadful BBC.
Let’s hurt them where it matter’s to them!
Having seen the Daily Record front page, when the unionists said we are ‘Better Together’, I now realise they meant ‘Better Together’ for the selected privileged few, and not for everyone.
Oh well, you live and learn I suppose, maybe next time. Surely they can’t fool us three times.
Sadly, I know of one guy who voted no because he was private security in Afghanistan and another war would mean he could become very wealthy again.
So he knew a no vote would mean more war. How shortsighted and incredibly selfish.
On a plus note. All our local posties voted Yes despite the attempt to bribe them with shares.
I also agree with several other posters that the SG should hold a press conference once the full budget deficit for Scotland is known next year.
They should no longer try and mitigate any WM policies. After all, wasn’t it Labour policy to become ‘One Nation’? It will be interesting to see what happens to public opinion when the same charges for education and healthcare are normalised across these Isles.
Weedeochandorris Now I have two things to thank you for posting this morning, the analysis of the YES campaign, which was excellent and said many things which needed to be said and now the piece from the US Marine.
I think most intelligent and thinking people can see these things. On the YES campaign my Husband was always raging about the SNP being on the back foot and sadly they were. I am hoping against hope that John Swinney who is an excellent manager but I doubt his skills at the bargaining table, and Patrick Harvie, is it, can hold their own against all those Unionists who are quite happy now that they think they have won. Who will happily screw them over, they may just have to walk away rather than take onboard things which will be unworkable or detrimental, after all why do what your opponents want you to do.
I think Ken O’Keefe is articulating what if you strip away the political rhetoric has happened to Government but I seem to remember a novel written after the First World War which said much the same, nothing changes.
Sadly, I know of one guy who voted no because he was private security in Afghanistan and another war would mean he could become very wealthy again.
So he knew a no vote would mean more war. How shortsighted and incredibly selfish.
On a plus note. All our local posties voted Yes despite the attempt to bribe them with shares.
I also agree with several other posters that the SG should hold a press conference once the full budget deficit for Scotland is known next year.
They should no longer try and mitigate any WM policies. After all, wasn’t it Labour policy to become ‘One Nation’? It will be interesting to see what happens to public opinion when the same charges for education and healthcare are normalised across these Isles.
This is Wee Eck in a way you’ve seldom heard him. Relaxed, humourful, very direct and it looks like him limbering up for a very hard hitting time soon.
Simply the best. 🙂
Probably best heard with headphones as the volume is audible but not very high.
30 min. of pure enjoyment.
link to spreaker.com
heedtracker
“THE VOW …”
A succinct and accurate depiction of the Unionist master plan.
However, as they always used to say when they had convinced themselves that a pro-indy majority in Parliament (either) was ‘impossible’; “You don’t need a referendum. Every election is a referendum. If you want independence all you have to do is vote for an independence supporting party.”
To make an independence electoral mandate very clear, it should, of course, be given primary, red line position in the pre-election manifesto. Effectively, “vote for us and you are voting for independence”. So there is no weasel room for the Us.
If an alliance of pro-indy parties are elected with a majority of the vote then those parties will have the mandate to begin negotiations with Westminster on independence immediately. If Westminster refuses to negotiate, then UDI, though far from ideal, is the nuclear option.
Personally, I would like to see a cross party constitutional manifesto to that effect.
Oh no doubt, there will be ultra gradualists and perhaps even a Umole or two who will advocate making do with Devo-Minus but the time when gradualism made some sense is past.
That way lies the demise of the SNP and independence.
Oh, quick and spectacular success for the SNP is reasonably assured for the 2016 elections, but by now few can be in any doubt of the efficacy of the state media machine in promoting Westminster lies and distortions. The oncoming disaster that is the UK economy, a host in its last throes as the parasites gorge their final fill, will, in a corralled Scottish context, be blamed on the SNP.
It will take foresight and courage for the SNP leadership to do this but its most difficult task may be to negate the hubris characteristic of the career politician. They may believe they can get the truth over to the people when things really go belly up, but they won’t be able to.
It is now or never.
I also suspect that if the leadership does not pursue something along these lines, new membership, who are hubris free, may have something to say about that.
This is Wee Eck in a way you’ve seldom heard him. Relaxed, humourful, very direct and it looks like him limbering up for a very hard hitting time soon.
Simply the best. 🙂
Probably best heard with headphones as the volume is audible but not very high.
30 min. of pure enjoyment.
link to spreaker.com
Argh! Anyone else getting Error 504 vanish cache?
Then my post appears twice!
WoS very slow and not loading fully
Anybody else
Jack Murphy says:
“Jim Sillars has a 3 Point Plan to get out of the Union:–
Sounds good to me.
link to 1001campaign.com ”
Sounds perfect to me too!
@Suzanne K – if u r using google chrome this often happens use the internet explorer and your comment should come up right away.
Re extremist groups – don’t forget Foulks calling us cybernats and the demonization of ordinary people by the mail and the massive over -reaction to the Smurf getting an egg placed on his shirt.
If they control the media, they control the way people think.
As for the rich types – they think they’re part of the in-crowd but don’t realise that the multi-millionaires think they are plebs like the rest of us.
There is a person on twitter, part of the One Scotland, claiming that a lot of prominent yes folk are now changing their minds – no evidence provided as yet – watch this space.
The Daily Record is taking a pounding on twitter
Molly
I wouldn’t waste my breath.
Stevie boy says:
“about boycotting the scaremongering companies”
Is there a master list anywhere?
It would be good to also know the details of the ‘crime’ each committed. Financial backing, scaremongering, spreading lies, threats to employees, etc..
Payback’s a bitch!
Taranaich:
thanks for sharing. That is a powerful piece of writing.
@handclapping says:30 September, 2014 at 10:35 am:
“If” the SNP is being nice, how, and who, do we get to publish the Not Unionist case so we don’t end up with people saying “I didn’t realise” again”
That wee word, “IF” again, handclapping? So you begin your argument with the Establishment’s favourite gambit and expect us all to take you seriously?
I’m not about to make that same mistake so I will begin my defence of your argument with, “I will assume for the time being”, that Mr. Salmond is already showing signs of what would seem to be a new strategy for the SNP.
He has already become more aggressive and has already told you he is going nowhere soon. He has but promised to resign as FM and perhaps also leader of the party so I expected him to adopt a new role.
As for those people who might say “I didn’t realise” – there will be a very, very ready answer “Weel ye’s bliidy weel aw ken noo”. This said with a bit of venom when they who say, “I didn’t realise”, begin to feel the pain they, “didn’t realise”, was heading their way after being told so many time that it was. There is no need for anyone on the YES side to tell these people how wrong they have been for the BBC Propaganda reporting from the present Tory conference are already making our point for us.
War again and a promise to cut even more cash from the poorest of the poor to pay for it and several other, “benefits”, of togetherness with the Westminster Establishment of the several rainbow coloured Westminster Conservative Parties.
heedtracker says: 30 September, 2014 at 10:51 am:
“@ Robert Peffers, I fully understand all of your points BUT…
THE VOW is almost certainly a fraud and if it even gets before the Commons before the next UKOK general election, it won’t get passed them.”
Aye! heedtracker, I know it is a fraud: You know it is a fraud: All the new signed up members of the several YES supporting political parties and those already members know it’s a fraud. The point that I’m making is that the VOW is not in itself a Westminster error but the fact that the three leaders signed a pledge together and published it is.
Just consider the output from the present Tory Conference. Dave is saying Scotland will get what he and they promised and Gideon is telling us all that we are in for more of the old cuts and has introduced a few more new ones. All of them against the backdrop of a new expensive war and every old & new cut to affect only the most poor and vulnerable. Mind you Gideon also made a nice wee present to the middle to richer folks.
Even the most stupid and self interested Scots who voted NO are going to now be in no doubts that the promises made were false and there can be only one result from that – those deluded NO voters are already seeing the error they made and it will be they who will lead the charge to a new referendum. If you think a woman scorned is vengeful – just wait till you see a scorned party faithful voter in action. I get the feeling that, “blid an snaughters is aboot tae flee a’roads”, in the Scottish NO supporting politcal parties. As my old grand Dad used to say, “Ach! leave thaim alain, it keeps thaim oot o the road o the cairts”.
It’s a long read but interesting…
link to blogs.hbr.org
I fear you may be right BTP but even if it gives them a headache for 10 mins trying to compose an email .
Certainly that one this morning- No mention of Scotland/ powers etc .
Luigi says:30 September, 2014 at 10:55 am:
“Perhaps the new first minister should offer, publically, to keep another referendum off the table for at least 10 years, IF we get real devomax.”
Whoa! there Luigi, Have you forgotten the Edinburgh Agreement? We, the people of Scotland have not one but two vows. The Edinburgh agreement ties the Establishment into full co-operation and the other vow promises FULL DEVO PLUS. That term means the constitutional arrangement in which the Scottish Parliament will receive all taxation levied in Scotland but would make payments to the UK government to cover Scotland’s share of the cost of providing the UK-wide services of defence and the conduct of foreign relations.
The Establishment has signed up to both and if they do not deliver on either then we go ahead and hold another referendum or even declare UDI due to them breaking their trust. They cannot hope to continue as a World Power if the World at large cannot trust them. Understand that the World’s eyes are upon this matter now. When ever did you see such as RT & Al Jazeera report on domestic matters in Scotland before. Good grief, a year age these other countries thought Scotland was a part of England like, say, Devon or Rutland.
The only fault I can think of is that the UK claims the Oil & Gas revenues come from, “Extra-Regio Territory and claim it all for the UK while maintaining that when the bipartite UK disunites it splits into an rUK and a Kingdom of Scotland. This cannot be legal as there are only two signatories on the Treaty of Union and England was then composed of three countries and there were no other kingdoms involved.
@BtP:
Yeah, there are some loading problems. Seems to be related with the link France/UK, as it happens also on another unrelated UK site. The MI5 is installing a spoofing device on the link.
[…] Demand and supply […]
As you say, they can never implement Devomax – for precisely the same reason it was left off the ballot paper: once people realise just how well off Scotland truly is, they’re not going to want Westminster in control of defence and foreign affairs. As such, I’m actually in agreement with your proposal.
The new FM must be completely and utterly uncompromising to the promises made. Sure, they’ll wiggle out and try to say “but we didn’t REALLY promise Devomax,” but that’s just not going to hold water any more with the number of times Devomax, Ultra Devo Plus, Home Rule, and so forth have been repeated.
Once people realise that there can be no more significant powers (and once the reality of the No vote sets in with fracking, war, austerity, prospect of West Lothian Question settlement etc), I’d like to think people would finally get it, and once the “pro-Devolution” parties are exposed, well, there it is.
Yes Scotland needed to be positive, the grassroots could unleash the dogs of hell. But next year will be an election, not a referendum – a very different beast, which will require very different tactics. As with you, I’ve had enough. The information was freely available to people, but they didn’t seek it out. Ignorance won’t fly any more. We have to make sure everyone knows EXACTLY what remaining in the UK truly means.
My mother said exactly the same thing, and it is an EXTREMELY good point. There are plenty of other examples of “English matters” which affect Scotland: the NHS budget, for example.
I think a substantial number of the percentage who didn’t vote are people who either didn’t know how to vote, or were rejected at some point – either they didn’t register on time, or they were turned away at the polling station.
Of more concern to me is the substantial number of Yes voters who didn’t contribute to the campaign outside a few tweets and facebook messages. I get that not every single person is going to be able to canvass or leaflet or volunteer due to health or social or work reasons, but for God’s sake, 27,000 people voted Yes in Inverclyde, yet we only had 50 regular volunteers. I hope at least some of the tens of thousands of new SNP/SSP/SGP members will put in the graft.
This is pretty much what I was trying to say last night, only I was tired and emotional and more than a little hysterical! 🙂 I am willing to go with the “give us devomax or we’re putting independence back on the table” plan, I just fear that WM are going to do their damnedest to weasel out of it, try to redefine Devomax and whatnot.
Arguably, Yes and No should be on the same side now – getting a stronger parliament in the UK, ergo, more powers. Are Messrs Darling, Davidson, Carmichael, MacDougall, Brown et al going to battle Westminster alongside the SNP for more powers for Scots? Will we see their “One Scotland” taking their case to Westminster?
You tell me.
Thank you, Craig. I think I just about poured the last of my frustration into that post.
[…] Wings Over Scotland spotted that the £3 billion figure matched the amount that it is estimated that the “years of war” against IS will cost. On Saturday, the UK government announced that it was purchasing 20 Tomahawk cruise missiles, which cost £1 million each. These will be used against the Islamic fighters in Iraq. […]
AuldA
Not a UK / France thing
I suspect that WoS is under a DDOS attack, as it has been for months now.
People have been trying to shut it down.
@ Taranaich
Like Iain McWhirter?
As I said a few daya ago Taranaich, the Federal cultists.
Bertrand Russell once said “One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.” Sound like anyone we know?
@ handclapping (from quite a way up the thread)
I had a wonderful, Marxist, history teacher at school. She had a cupboard in her classroom, on which was painted a quotation from Hegel, via George Bernard Shaw:
“What History and Experience teach is this – that people and governments have never learned anything from History and Experience”
We have to be an exception to this.
The Express is at it as well – link to express.co.uk
“Scottish Labour local government spokesman, Sarah Boyack said the new tax will come as a blow to families working hard to make ends meet.
She said: “Despite being aware of the true costs of their local income tax, the SNP seem determined to push ahead with punishing hard-working families.
“Their current plans would hit households across the country at a time that pay packets are already being stretched.”
The SNP seem determined to push ahead with punishing hard-working families?
Balls speech on Child Benefit anyone? Good job nae fe**er reads the Express anyway…
Taranaich, Bravo, you said what has needed to be said, and I promise that I will get off my bot and go out with the leaflets. I cannot canvas, I came to that conclusion a while ago, my hearing is so bad that I do not pick up many words correctly but nothing wrong with the legs.
I do want the SNP to be very careful, there is a tendency to try to be Statesman like and what we need is a bit of thuggery, after all we have been on the receiving end of it this Referendum from the other side.
One_Scot says:
30 September, 2014 at 10:47 am
“I have not watched BBC, ITV or Sky news since the vote, and I do see why that would change. I cannot stomach the thought of watching and listening to people who were instrumental in the destruction of Scotland for their own self interests.
I have started to watch RT, and I have to say it is very refreshing and eye opening to see news reports about the UK and specifically the Tories with the blanket of bias removed.”
Maybe about the UK but RT is very biased towards ex Soviet/Warsaw pact states. Believe me, I lived in an ex Soviet state for 12 years and RT is just another propaganda mouthpiece. Everything they report is coloured to the state’s interests.
re Russian MSM
I believe that rio Novosti is part owned by the Financial Times?
@Cadogan Enright
You might find Bill Mitchell’s blog on a similar subject interesting
link to bilbo.economicoutlook.net
Guns not butter!
There’s a word to describe this form of government. Now what was it they used back in the mid-20th century? I think a contemporary name might be neo-conservative. A political philosophy that generates and is empowered by public apathy.
These morally questionable individuals are not only aiming to turn back the clock on social development, they have endeavored to create a permanent war against a constantly changing enemy, who they have also largely created since the 1970s. You could almost imagine being back in 1984. Let there be no misunderstanding, One Nation British Labour are no better. I think they are quite proud of English Socialism.
You could possibly argue that war is the ultimate creative destruction. Gotta fill those contracts and control those pipeline routes.
I wonder what those who voted No expecting devo-max think they will be getting, does anyone have an idea yet?
Taranaich – love your writing.
Wasn’t this little toerag touting we are Better Together? Stooge.
link to imgur.com
Just listened to Blair Jenkins’ excuses for a No vote on STV. I was not happy at all with his running of YES but as an SNP member for over 38 years I thought the SNP maybe knew what they were doing appointing him!
I don’t know if anyone else heard him say that the BBBC wasn’t too biased! What ! It was him being so mealy mouthed about everything that lost it for us. I’m furious! He was always dreadful being interviewed. Now he sounds as if he doesn’t care. Maybe he’s looking for a job with the BBBC!
Well, the media have gone into full reverential war mode with quieter tones and hushed voices “Britain is at war” and dont they just love it
I dont know how much one of these almighty powerfull jets cost including pilot training and all that technology
But still, “We blew up a car” I feel much more safe secure and proud now, as a tiny tear rolls down my patriotic scottish face…
@Flower of scotland
I think you may well be right on the money
Dr Jim – Tornado GR4 – £15 million, about £35,000 per hour, cost of a fully trained pilot between £2 million and £10 million depending on how fighter trained (from memory).
Meanwhile the RAF disbanded the Dambusters squadron and I think are disbanding 2 squadron. As far as I know, there are no Tranche 3 Typhoons ready for combat.
So I think the bomber contingent is limited to 30 aircraft tops, currently I think about 6 stationed in Akrotiri on Cyprus.
Flower of Scotland I so agree with you.
Well that was a couple of million £ spent on blowing up a pick up truck today
Yes good old BBC showing the blowing up of a truck – millions spent on doing so – Benefit cuts announced – tories are on a roll – watch out all the NO voters – TORY/UKIP will be in power next general election……
Labour – better together with who? no one wants them…..
muttley79 writes, “I still cannot believe that 55 per cent of the voters in Scotland thought we were better off as part of the British state.” Facts, reality, the real world, they are not matters of ‘belief’, or of faith. The 55.3 per cent majority realised that what they were being told about the irresistible virtues of independence was just a matter of faith.
They got real.
@Will Podmore,
And the ‘Vow’, and the last weeks propaganda made no difference?
I believe we would be discussing a Yes win without the mass attack by the British State in the last two weeks. An intervention that broke all the rules of purdah. Public and private polling was showing Yes in the lead at that time, so stick your British shite up your arse.