Demand and supply
Posted on
September 29, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Daily Record, Saturday 27 September:
BBC, Monday 29 September:
The best of both worlds.
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
Gotta pay for it somehow, I suppose.
I’m starting to feel like I did on the 19th. 🙁
So, the poor and unemployed shall be ‘safe’ to enjoy their poverty.
Polling and sharing resources Tory style. And Blue Labour will match them. If only we had had the opportunity to ensure that these sociopaths couldn’t hurt the vulnerable ehh.
Still this way a poor person in Motherwell will have lots in common with a poor person in Manchester. Solidarity in action.
I remember the “good” old days when wars used to be paid out of “contingency funds”.
George Osballs should get in touch with Crash Gordon to see how to utilise contingency funds. Maybe there’s a specific card and PIN number or something.
When Tony Blair announced his Iraq War, Gordon Brown was asked “How much will it cost?”. He replied, “As much as it takes.” Nice to see all that pooling and sharing continuing as we launch into Iraq 3. Surprised to see a Better Together UKOK war while X Factor is still on, though.
Oh, come on, Stu. This is just ridiculous.
You’re implying that Osbourne understands what “balancing the budget” means 😉
I still cannot believe that 55 per cent of the voters in Scotland thought we were better off as part of the British state. I reckon the SNP have to tell the voters that they can no longer mitigate austerity, and that the deal the Tories/Labour are cooking up will shaft Scotland. I don’t see the point in the SNP continuing to bust a gut for people who have voted against governing themselves. It is time to take the kid gloves off, and say that there is no protection now against austerity. This remorseless positivity has to stop sometime.
What’s three-billion between friends when you’re in debt to the tune of one-thousand-five-hundred-billion. I mean, it’s only three weeks interest payments, so we must be able to afford that…… can’t we?
OK, so we have to freeze giving money to the citizens of the country, but it’s not like they are our pals, is it? Much better to spend the money with our arms manufacturing mates who bribe us with directorships and consultancy fees, than to serve the people we are meant to be here to look after…..
How many times do we get to say, “I told you so” before it becomes too repetitive?
@muttley79 “I reckon the SNP have to tell the voters that they can no longer mitigate austerity, and that the deal the Tories/Labour are cooking up will shaft Scotland”
totally agree with you, gloves off time. Let the No hopers learn what No really means.
Osborne’s got the look of a man who lies for a living.
I agree, when the cuts come again, I think that Scot Gov should protect NHS and education and full on U KOK for everything else.
No more mitigating nasty Tory policies when majority voted for them.
Aiberdeen Toon Cooncil is going efter a’ newly registerd voters in pursuance of ony past debts.
Oi! are you not supposed to still be on holiday?
Right, the net effect is to get those on Benefits
to pay the £3billion for the war on Islamic State.
But, the Queen could pay for it
from the change she has in her purse,
and she’s not the only one.
George could ask the Duke of Westminster for the £3billion and I’m sure he wouldn’t even cough.
Or, a whip round at Royal Ascot would do the trick.
.
The ruling classes are in the grip of greed.
Who will break their addiction ?
I still cannot believe that 55 per cent of the voters in Scotland thought we were better off as part of the British state. I reckon the SNP have to tell the voters that they can no longer mitigate austerity, and that the deal the Tories/Labour are cooking up will shaft Scotland. I don’t see the point in the SNP continuing to bust a gut for people who have voted against governing themselves.
Its the old head in the sand attitude:
” I believe that we are better together, coz it’s too risky to go it alone. Besides (wait for it): the Scottish government are good at protecting us from Westminster cuts.”
What is it about the word “unsustainable” that they don’t understand?
@Luigi
Agreed. The SG cannot keep mitigating cuts from Westminster. That time is over. If you do not control the purse strings you do not really have a chance. Hopefully, that starts to prick the consciousness of the No voters in the next 10 years. If it does not then nothing will.
Not in my name.
Apparently, the British government has clearly put its priorities across…
Surely its the pensioners that need to be kept safe in their beds? Can’t they pay for it?
I need a rant, sorry.
What the hell is going on?
Fracking without consent throughout the old pit sites in the central belt.
Going to war.
Benefits freeze.
I am on benefits, go on shoot me! They say I’m a waster, a layabout, taking something for nothing.
I’d love the £23,000 a year they say is the most you can get.
More like 5K, just enough so I don’t starve but not enough to keep me warm. Sorry you can’t get help with rent, poll tax or anything else. Get on with it. Lucky for me I get free prescriptions, oh sorry they may change that too. No don’t shoot me, I’ll shoot myself.
I voted YES, even thinking I might lose the 5K, but it would have been worth it for a future without these nutters running the show.
The puss in boots purr purrr, has stacks of gold , lets see if any of that ever gets used to help bailout the poor.
They will attack welfare until it looks broken and then sell it off to private companies like they did with the NHS. If you think it’s demeaning to sign on now, just wait!
Deprive something of money, run it till it’s on its knees and then privatise. Sell it off cheap (see George Osbourne about that) to family and friends.
NHS, welfare, pensions, think of the money they’ll get for selling all that, BUT.. BUT.. BUT.. the real money really comes in once they’re sold. £150 for appointment with your GP. UK Gov will give £XXXX billions to private companies for welfare and pensions and the only way you can make a profit out of that, is if lots of people don’t get the money they need.
Think of those kids in India climbing over rubbish heaps for plastic bottles to sell for food and you see the UK Gov’s vision for the UK while they Lord it over us.
How many people signing on at a VIRGIN jobcentre will it need, before the whole of Scotland wakes up.
Is this not going to put a dent in George’s plan to change his budget deficit of £107 billion into a surplus by 2018 ?
Just joined snp one more to help scotland
Next time all pensioners should receive Scot Gov mailing with copy of letter from DWP saying pensions are safe – end of!
If I had a mind to; and assuming there is a way to,
I’d pass on the cuts ONLY to the No voters
by whatever means.
Aaa-nd, I’d arrange for fracking to begin FIRST
in areas dominated by No voters.
.
They voted for it – they should get it.
That way, Independence wouldn’t be long in arriving.
@Oh dear, Oh dear
Sadly the British Brainwashing Corporation will attempt to convince people here that this is all very normal, like they condition people to think that Holyrood does not need new powers to create jobs (as they started to do yesterday). Being an integral part of the British establishment they will do what their masters want them to do.
Even with devo max we would be on the hook for foreign policy and defence and this madness. Indy was only option and still is. It is not the deficit that is scary but the debt. Currency options in round 2 of IndyRef need to be hardball – no to pound, zero debt, own currency.
John Swinnie should stop taking about the “Block Grant” and start calling it “our pocket money from Westminster”
They will be gone in six months, along with all the Unionist politicians in Scotland.
I thought you were on yer hols? You see that’s why I never take a break! Ye come back to find someone has stolen yer money and are using it to attack folks you don’t even know!
George getting even uglier.
If the Daily Record says it will cost 3 billion, you can multiply that by ten for the real, final economic cost. Then there is the human cost – hundreds of innocent lives are about to be lost.
I wonder how long the BBC could ignore massive anti-war demos. They would try to blank it out as long as possible, no doubt.
Agree we should pass on cuts to folk BUT the BBC will blame the SNP government.
Until we get rid of them it will always be an uphill struggle.
There was a tweet from a stupid wee lassie, I voted No but as long as I get my free tuition I’m OK.
Make everyone earning over ?£100k or with savings of?? pay for everything, prescriptions, eye tests, tuition fees, the lot.
They are tory voters anyway.
We still want to keep enough folk onside until the GE.
@Tartan Tory, I don’t think saying “I told you so” can ever become too repetitive.
There’s no need to be nice to the 55% for as far as I can tell they are a bunch of ruthless b@stards who voted to kill men women and children including babies.( too harsh?)
Is there anyone who votes for a warmongering nation expecting it not to go to war?
I’m open to contradictory trains of thought on the matter.
Gloves need to come off from the SG. I want to hear some statements of intent soon re what’s happening/not happening in wm.
I might not hear or see it as I’m not listening to ebc
B.S. anymore but I want to know it’s happening.
Ach, I’m more than a bit angry at it all and maybe I’m being a bit unfair.
Anyway, I’m away to do the school run.
It would be nice if the SG could set up new Scottish bank, repatriate our billions from Bank of England to it and use them to fund new currency. (more depositors welcome too!)
See the next time we have a protest, can we have it outside Gordon Brown’s house or/and the Daily Record’s offices
@Nation Libre
There are armed police outside Dr Brown’s house. Apparently he has been deemed valuable or something
It feels like since the vote, we are just eating shit every day. This £3 billion is an absolute load of crap – it will cost more than that for the fuelling of the jets! The first air strikes have been described as useless by those on the ground, hence the warning it needs “boots on the ground”. We keep bombing them, the IS recruitment campaign goes into overdrive. They have called on all jihadis around the world to work with them, which means home security is threatened.
Its beyond insanity, billions of pounds to kill woman and children
and the odd extremist. Totally disgusted with the im ok no voters.
Cheery messages today!
Does anybody know who Labour are planning to put on Smith’s commission? I have seen talk that Labour and the Tories are looking at the Tory plans for extensive tax devolution and Labour’s plans for a fair chunk of the DWP to come over to the Scottish Government but it seems remarkable that they can come to an agreement before the commission meets and Labour has chosen anyone….would have thought it would also annoy Tomkins, who presumably wants to have his tuppence worth and introduce Slovenian as our new national language 😉
They should explain fully how the wars are to be funded in future,and if it can’t be afforded,then war should not be an option except in defence. These bombings are not in defence of ourselves no matter how they put it.
@HandandShrimp
I can see the Tories and Labour being unable to even do a deal over more powers. Labour want to protect their Scottish MPs at all costs. They apparently did not see the Tories knife coming from behind their back. If there is no deal then SLAB and the Tories are finished in Scotland, no doubt about it. If there is a deal it will be a disaster for Scotland, it will be nowhere near Devo max, despite what Jackie Bird and the rest of the BBC stooges say.
SG should promote how our “share” could be better used – social housing, replacing hospitals & health centres, apprenticeships etc etc
While tempting to punish the No voters we need to remember most did not vote for this – they’re expecting something better, just like the rest of us. Well, apart from a few nutters but there’s no reasoning with anyone who thinks bombing Middle East countries is a good thing…which apparently includes ALL the WM parties now.
Muttley
It will be an interesting few weeks and Brown and Cameron have raised expectations with talk of Home Rule. Painting the target on Labour MPs’ behinds even more clearly.
O/T, the SNP should declare making Scotland an independent country as part of their manifesto for the GE 2015.
No need for referendums, the Tories didn’t have a referendum to impose austerity, they just said they would “make work pay” in their manifesto. The Labour party didn’t have a referendum when they imposed ATOS on ill benefit claimants.
Time to make a stand and fight for our independence, for NO-ONE was ever given independence. Comments from Frankie Boyle’s BBc i-Player, ” Just LET them go!”. We will have to fight and make no mistake it will not be pretty!
@macandroid – I agree with that I posted an article somewhere from Forbes, I think with lots of practical suggestions on how to stablilise Scottish currency.
There we go, FFA is the Conservative position for Smith’s commission.
link to newsnetscotland.scot
I agree that the SG will have no option now but to rise taxes and/or make more cuts. The BBC-MSM will no doubt try to lay the blame on the SG, but it all depends on how and when these are done. The cuts/taxes have to be introduced very slowly but surely, otherwise it just looks like revenge on the people for voting NO.
I am confident that the SG will work extremely hard to protect the vulnerable and mitigate against the worst affects of the coming austerity measures. As long as the SG is seen to be competent and dedicated (as it has been up until now), people will know who is really to blame.
People will usually put up with some financial hardship, but they will not suffer gross economic incompetence. This is why Labour will struggle to be re-elected in 2015, and 2016.
And Home Rule is Labour’s position for Smith’s commission.
Shouldn’t take long to get agreement on that.
“Well, apart from a few nutters but there’s no reasoning with anyone who thinks bombing Middle East countries is a good thing…which apparently includes ALL the WM parties now.”
It always did include *ALL* Westminster Tory Parties (Conservatives, Libs, Labour…, they’re all Tory parties these days).
And the No votes either voted for this, or really were “too stupid” to see what Westminster was going to do in their name and to them.
Does anyone know how the folks in the military voted? I’d expect that that would be an *interesting* result.
cynical lowlander says:
29 September, 2014 at 3:14 pm
There we go, FFA is the Conservative position for Smith’s commission.
link to newsnetscotland.scot
This is bound to be tied up with Englsh votes for English laws.
I think I can hear a few Red Tory bricks dropping:
Plop!
Look on the bright side. Top brass starts unwinnable war with who knows how big a suicidal death cult BUT they then have to pump even more billions into teamGB homeland security.
So next round of suicide bus and tube bombers don’t trouble Westminster and its good times all round for spooks, NSA, even more surveillance, UKOK loyalty, lots more service personnel funeral marches and on it goes.
How hard can these maniacs in Whitehall actually spy on us anyway, car bug GPS, mass phone tapping, cameras everywhere, UKOK brainwashing BBC/media stuffed with far right shills and thats just right the now
I think the Labour Turkeys in Better Together now realise that they just voted for Christmas.
Ho Hum.
@ cynical
“…a Scottish parliament will be raising and spending all of its own money.”
Not FFA unless we have control over all revenue streams. I’m not sure that’s what he is saying.
@Macandroid at 2.26 “Next time all pensioners should receive Scot Gov mailing with copy of letter from DWP saying pensions are safe – end of!” Exactly. I had the same thought, only I would send it to all pensioners now with an explanation of why the No side LIED to them.
Jings, that was short two-week break. Can’t help yourself, can you?
Utterly disgusted at this, but not surrprised. After all, it is warmongering Westminster we’re talking about, and the only income they can control is the welfare/benefits system.
Trying to control any other income would upset the apple-cart too much so yet again the poor and vulnerable are the whipping boys for the rich and powerful.
But hey, that’s what we voted for, eh?
SICK
CRUEL
UNECESSARY
WESTMINSTER POLICY
Absolutely disgraceful. As Tony Benn said’ if there’s money for war then there is money to help people’ I agree wholeheartedly
Haven’t we be told that no people have ever been bombed into submission, no matter how heavy or protracted he bombing?
How can anyone, anywhere, seriously believe that Miliband has any chance of getting into No 10?
Check this out. Extraordinary. The guy is off his rocker.
link to youtube.com
Alex Neil did a pensions letter for NHS staff and got pelters from UKOK and MSM as not happy it was done during purdah apparently. Correcting lies is not playing fair according to them. Britania waves the rules.
WESTMINSTER causes great suffering.
BOMBING
FINANCIAL RECKLESSNESS
HARASSMENT OF THE NEEDY
SHAME ON WESTMINSTER.
I think it is getting pretty close to a time when the Scottish Gov needs to challenge the establishment. The bbc would be a good place to start, say make it that no individual or household can’t be taken to court for refusal to pay the tv licence. That would get plenty of airtime, which SG could use to ensure people new how they had been lied to. They could pass a bill making permant the Scottish parliment as promised in the VOW. They should start all conversations regarding new powers by reminding people that we were promised devomax/homerule and that they intend to hold WM to those promises within the time limit given by WM. All would be challenged.of course but would get a hell of a lot of airtime.
OT
This petition should have a million signatures on it, not less than 25,000.
link to thepetitionsite.com
link to rt.com
Sums the economy up really
Special banker tax to pay for this valiant adventure? £1m per head?
@Ian Brotherhood
Holy shit! That’s not a human, it#’s either an alien or a robot. I’d plump for alien. Osborne is an alien too.
Agree the SNP should point out where the oil money is going and put the cuts in telling folk “this is what you voted for”
Except the BED ROOM TAX.
That only effected the disabled. and they are getting hammered hard enough to the point it could be view as assisted suicide.
Heedtracker – is that a challenge? ( joking)
Colin Church didn’t see that from Alex Neil but the RCN sent a letter ( long before the Ref) regarding the pay rise or lack of down south. It clearly stated the Scottish Govt would implement the recommendations as opposed to the divisive nonsense down south .
Any member of the RCN had it straight from the horses mouth which way the NHS down south is going.
@Alex Clark –
This one’s worth watching too, if only for Jon Snow’s face – it’s as if he’s thinking ‘who the fuck is this character, and what is he on about?’ –
link to youtube.com
Jamie
I think the problem is that there are just too many petitions at the moment. I signed one regarding the BBC but it had way more signatures than that.
There also seems to be at least three if not four separate alternative media groups setting something up. Again we need to concentrate our energies and pull these together to make a good thing.
The driving forces behind warminister.
Self-interest
Corporate sovereignty
U.s.a.
Military industrial complex
Labour’s policy of being tougher on welfare than their partners, the Conservatives, will enable them to escalate the war effort should they get into power.
Golfnut
Something along those lines is needed. SNP need to come out fighting and not wait to get shafted by the Smith commision.
Oh Scotland, what have you done?
Molly,
link to news.scotland.gov.uk
The good old UK. It’s all about being Better Together, didn’t you know?
Ian Brotherhood.
WTF is he for real???
I never watch tv and only pick up things on Wings and the like. i knew Milliband was a di** but wow. like listening to a stuck record.
He cannot be Primeminister EVER.
Well old George boy has told the middle class the psudo middle class and the pensioners how he is going to gut them financially. To show his appreciation for voting NO and let them see who holds the whip hand and purse strings in the Scottish colony.
The middle class will shrug their shoulders and wor their tax relief to death. The psudo middle class will rage get poorer and blame SNP. The poor pensioners will just have to lump it and moan.
The NHS will be privatised, the middle class won’t mind. The psudo middle class will suffer along with the pensioners and the rest of us. VOTING NAW REALLY WIS A GREAT IDEA, FOR THE REAL MIDDLE CLASS.
We have the worst set of politicians to choose from in my lifetime. Snp/Greens/SSP are in a league of their own.
What a choice we get.
Bill, Ben or Weed.
I despair
Ours not to reason why, ours but to do and die….
How on earth is a poor arms manufacturer down on his uppers to make an honest living? Luckily our Weir Group board persons are on the case, George Robertson and Lord Smith of Kelvin.
Knew you couldn’t keep up this holiday mallarkey!
I think I heard that he was going to tax children’s pocket money and that some popular pavements will have tolls , like Buchanan street etc , same with public parks , and fresh air, and sex, and laughter , and happiness , but only if you are on benefits .
Yeah, but, but the VOW, I mean they wouldn’t break that would they? What about reconciliation and all of us living together in a big better together world, with sunshine and good things and maybe even unicorns?
Surely NO meant yes to all that. What do the brown people think about us bombing them? Don’t they realise it’s for their own good and that the union flag is a sign of fair play?
I don’t think I want to play with the unionists anymore.
And as if WM Tory cuts aren’t bad enough, apparently there’s an article in the Scotsman saying that Aberdeenshire Council are actually hunting down people to pay the Poll Tax after they registered for indy ref vote.
I remember having this worry at the time that folk who’d previously dropped off the electoral register and now registered, would be hounded by any unionist led councils for missing poll tax arrears. (The missing millions =£ms)
If I remember rightly, there is no statute of limitations thingy re poll tax, and it can be chased up forever more, but did Kenny McAskill not do something about the law re chasing pt arrears?
At least Tommy Sheridan’s still around and now in SNP, maybe SG could make it illegal?
Unbelieveable. yesscotland.net still not updated at all, to say “thank you for all your support, the fight goes on”.
@ Macandroid @ 3:24
We can interpret it as such.
OT: Iain subGray has just been appointed as a member of Labours powers commission team. Lord help us all.
In 2005, a a one-off, I voted Lib Dem as they were the only party to oppose the Iraq war. Naively I thought that most other people would do likewise, as what could be more important than a war being started in your name against your wishes?
But I overestimated the nation (and would do so again this year). The sad truth is that so long as they are not personally affected, most people (in Scotland as much as rUK) couldn’t care less about the murder of innocent foreigners.
Appealing to people’s better natures is an uphill struggle.
The politicians who voted for this new exercise in state violence know that innocent people will be killed but they go ahead and do it. We need to make it clear to whoever will listen that we are opposed to this killing. The middle eastern countries have to sort out their own problems. Apart from offering humanitarian help the British have no useful part to play.
We need a Scottish Alliance with the SNP/Greens and SSP. It would be targeting the Labour seats and bring together most of the 1.6 million of us who voted YES.
But i think the Snp will just go about working the way they have . Still you never know, they have many new members to listen to and they will not stay silent long.
Cuts , War and much much more on the way.
We could have been energised and raring to go , building a fair and more prosperous nation. Instead , barely a week later and theres oil aplenty for WM to steal, a war without out any real plans, welfare having even more cuts and a list of promises being flung on the back burner till they can be bothered .
NO voters you have shamed this country.
But you can still save this country .
If you can be bothered.
Heard they buggers I.S. are not playing the game, instead of travelling in convoys they have decided to split up and use motor cycles. A multi-million dollar jet chasing motorbikes around the desert.
They should just stand in a big crowd waving their flags, that would be much fairer.
An independent Scotland would be no friend of Israel. While so many issues remain coloured in grey, heading into the referendum on Scottish independence, this one should be viewed as black-and-white. Over the past decade, Scotland’s First Minister – and the architect of Thursday’s historic referendum vote – Alex Salmond, has consistently presented an anti-Israel agenda to the people of Scotland.
link to caltonjock.com
@bobdog collie: yes, we’re also to get a microchip implanted in our brains. Sensors will deduct 2p out of our bank accounts every time we walk past a lit street light.
Creag an tuirc, he’s only been appointed so they have someone to go and get the sandwiches.
And after the ideological war of the past several weeks where the power of the media and establishment buffoons like Brown were unleashed to play the cards of fear, and subservience to British ‘power’, WM now rush in to actual war. Still, I’m sure Osborne and the rest are really pleased with the symmetry and balance of a 3 billion pound war bill and a 3 Billion pound welfare cut. In their twisted logic they’ll probably argue bombing doesn’t cost the State a penny.
Sod crunching the numbers perhaps a huge crowd marching through east renfrewshire with placards saying “frack here first, we won’t oppose you” or dear suicide bombers, these people are your enemies,, or” dear Nicolas” please raise income tax by 17p in the £ for east renfrewshire only
That might just get their attention
yesindyref2 says:
29 September, 2014 at 4:55 pm
Unbelieveable. yesscotland.net still not updated at all, to say “thank you for all your support, the fight goes on”.
This is really weird. At least all the YES activists could have been emailed, thanked and encouraged, but it’s like they just gave up, switched the lights off and went home.
The people themselves have sprung to action. However, YES Scotland does have valuable information (contact addresses etc) that could have been passed to groups willing to carry on with the struggle.
At least 1.3 million people signed the pledge – we need to contact them in our objective to vote out as many unionist MPs out possible, in 2015.
YES Scotland could have hung about for at least a few more months to coordinate the fight back. Pity they all went home.
Just got back to Saudi on Thursday after the boom, bust and hopefully boom to come of the referendum vote, only this time with my wife and 14yo kid in tow. Security has just been beefed up on the way into the camp, we now have an AK toting Saudi Army checkpoint before we get to the camp gates. Feeling a little more uneasy this time round than I was in the Basrah area last year.
In the time that the SNP have left until the next Scottish elections, what new laws or reforms would the forum like to see introduced?
my starters for 10: –
work with our Yes partner, the green party, to introduce a land value tax.
Work in conjunction with our Yes partners to introduce a land reform bill.
In addition I’d like to see them start a number of hare’s running aimed at assuming powers, rather than waiting for them. Also start calling in experts from our Yes partners, when taking about reform and change as supportive background.
All that, plus equitable distribution of the forthcoming cuts; sorting out the press and the EBC, should keep them busy.
PS 45% wanted change – time the SNP government started to shake the tree a bit harder and examine what of the 55%falls out in the way of vested interests, duplication and waste.
Over to you guys.
The Yes Scotland Facebook page still seems to be around and it was redirecting people to the Yes parties and the RIC. Yes Scotland themselves haven’t posted anything in the last few days but they posted a lot of stuff in the week following the vote. People are still using the page and commenting. I’m guessing Yes staffers have gone though.
Better Toge…
No, no we’re not are we?
Well 55% voted for this.
dramfineday
1 Decriminalising the non payment of BBC tax.
So this is pooling and sharing. “We” (not in my effin name) pool the bombs and share them with the Iraqis. Astonishing!!!
I’m afraid as far as YES Scotland goes, the light is on but nobody is home. YES Facebook and twitter account hasn’t been updated in days. Stephen Noon’s last twitter entry was days ago but Blair Jenkins retweeted earlier today. I was afraid of this happening, the abandonment, not capturing the spirit of the independence movement and progressing with it.
It would be good to continue YES Scotland and morph it into the YES Alliance, even if the website and social media aspects were staffed by volunteers or part-timers to begin with. You can tweet Blair Jenkins at:
link to twitter.com
We need to start building the foundations of the YES Alliance.
I see Labour have nominated Iain Gray as their man in Havana (or the Smith Commission) plus a Labour MP. Brown perhaps or maybe the eggman.
I see Iain Gray and some other nameless rapidly retreating/hiding British Labour party nominee have been appointed to to Lord Sniff of Kelvin’s commission. He has a majority of 151 in East Lothian, so, Labour can’t find any “big hitters” to put their case. Have they actually got any? A big-hitter or a case?
Time to get rid of all this crap. Time to be our own people in our own country.
Oh well, nothing can be done. More that 2.6 million people in Scotland fully support this.
And don’t let them tell you they don’t.
Are we Better Together yet?
When does it start?
The three billion was muttered more or less in the same breath as the need for HS2.
Guys and Girls.
If Yes Scotland have just packed up and left , who is going to marshal the troops ?. We need a bigger more concerted effort now . It worries me that we will have so many groups we could end up trying to preach to each other.
We need to be organised to take on Labour especially as they have their die hard core voters quite willing to spread shit about. A concerted effort by all will drown the shysters out.
I had no love for YES Scotland but respected the fact they brought many groups closer together.
Thy can’t just call it quits can they ?
Do you remember when the Nay Sayers got all “you are so bullying business to not say anything about independence”?
link to theguardian.com
While we wait for first news of incinerated Iraq civilian collateral damage via the RAF
link to shetnews.co.uk
“These people were inspired to vote Yes not because they wanted Scotland to be independent for the sake of it, but because it offered hope of a better future – one that is not represented in the mainstream media, or by the mainstream political parties.”
These are the bad times.
Info mostly going to the converted, here, FB etc.
Reach the people that don’t have internet FB?
They’re non the wiser, it’s not on the telly/papers so it isn’t real.
Fascinating documents on Jim Murphy released by wikileaks via Bella Caledonia twitter:
link to search.wikileaks.org
American spooks in 2008 called Murphy ‘an up and coming Labour leader’ … eek!
link to twitter.com
I see Iain Gray has been appointed to be one of SLAB’s representatives on the Smith Commission. Can we official start to right it off right now as a useless, British establishment talking shop? So Labour appoint Gray, the Tories Annabel Goldie! It is like the Calman Commission never existed. Seriously do Scottish unionists expect people in Scotland do be impressed by this fiasco? As if Goldie and Gray would deliver Devo max!
To be honest near the end I am not sure Yes Scotland needed to do any organising. We became a very big and very real grass roots movement. When dishing out information no one asked me for a Yes leaflet, a lot of people asked for the WBB. I gave out half a dozen at work and loads to undecideds at the Yes stall.
We have the Yes parties which have grown hugely, there must 80,000+ members of the SNP, Greens, SSP and Solidarity. We have the Common Weal which continues, the 45, RIC, Women for Independence, Wings and Newsnet possibly in conjunction with Derek and the BBC Scotlandshire people. Both my Yes Orkney and Yes Largs Facebook pages are continuing and presumably the others are too.
In fact when you look at it we have an immense amount of activity going on. No shortage of places to go or activities to get involved with.
@Luigi No thank you on YES site.
As an activist I’ve had several e-mails and our local groups have had parties.
What has your local group done?
Listened to bbc radio Scotland doing the work of their masters and allowing Ineos a good 10 minutes to break us in gently with their fracking ideas and how they’ll give areas concerned bribes to allow smooth passage.
It’s like the Barnett formulas phase II. Gives us all below your feet and then we’ll give you some small change back. Ineos, Westminister – get tae fuck
Muttley
I have to say that I am mildly surprised by both Annabel and Iain as choices although they are both former Holyrood party leaders. Tomkins astounds me as a choice notwithstanding the legal constitutional knowledge he is hardly a keen proponent of Scottish self determination. However, I think it will be the final choice by Labour that may set the seal. Certainly Swinney and Harvie should be able to argue their corner in this group and I think Moore will push a federal line….Tavish? who knows?
@Btp
Agree, why should we end up in court because we refuse to pay to be lied to. Think of the furore this would cause. DM headline. SWEAT SOCKS DEMAND FREE TELLY.
As said already, lots of hares running, threaten snap election SG if homerule not given.
We have to keep highlighting they lied, and they ‘ did it deliberately’.
Nana, I agree, people need to realise what they voted for. I seem to remember some Labour woman on one of the comments pages saying that though her kids had used free school meals when she needed it, there was no way that she would agree to removing the stigma by allowing other than “poor” people like her get it, therefore no free school meals for some kids whose parents may well be struggling but are paying a mortgage for her.
I think that though I do not want the vulnerable to suffer, some of them had to have voted NO.
Today someone moaned to me that the latest Iraq bombing was awful. My standard retort from now on to all sorts of things will be something along the lines of,…. I voted Yes, blame those who voted for this. So that was said today. They looked rather sheepish and changed the subject.
At least Gray being so utterly useless will be talked into anything
I agree with all you say HS..
But it’s an election now. Parties matter most not that the groups don’t matter. i think we need organised to ensure we support indi parties at each area effectively .
labour ,Tory and libdems have the experience for this , we will see labour canvassers “with Scottish accents” . They may have needed to bus up from England then but now it’s party time . We need a strong hand a WM . It would show the waverers that we are still a powerful voice.
With Gray, Goldie, Tomkins, Tosh involved, if the Smith Commission was a ship it would be the titanic. Maybe best just to allow Swinney +1, Moore, Harvie +1 to come up with something. The rest do not seem to bring anything to the table apart from stupefying unionism and cringing Jock syndrome. I do not think Harvie, Swinney et al will be able to get anything significant through this lot. I am very tempted to right this whole sorry commission off now…
I’m getting seriously pissed off with what’s happening, probably like everyone else.
FFS only a few days we had a different choice – I know we’re supposed to be reaching out for the 55%, but as far as I’m feeling they can piss right off – apart from th e terrified pensioners.
We are living in an evil pretend democracy – just exactly what are Labour thinking of?
Yesguy
A fair point, I have joined the SNP as my first ever party although I was loosely attached to Labour (voter and putter up of posters in my window). Wars, fracking under our houses, freezing benefits, pledges to raise the minimum wage by 27p a year, UKIP breathing down Westminster’s neck….I don’t think the selling the Yes parties is going to be hard.
@galamcennalath – I agree.
If anyone moans about what’s happening I’m going to say it’s what the nos voted for.
Papadox, we have a very small middle class, certainly compared to the working class so we have some of the working class to blame for voting with Better Together. It always amazes me the number of people who vote against their own best interests. So they will reap the whirlwind. Unfortunately so will many who voted YES, the benefits of this wonderful democracy where there are no rules for them but lots and lots for us.
We will be run down by the Lords on their big horses shortly.
YESGuy who is going to marshall the troops, I would say you and everyone here is. How much input seriously did YES have?
Anybody got any idea why Sir Ian Wood was so downbeat about North Sea oil prior to the referendum and total silence about the west coast oilfields, o and Fracking in the central belt. Did he know INEOS intentions and plans.
I’m pretty sure HMG and yon Scots oil broker with the gangsters and terrorist mates has a hand in it. He was one of the first to donate to BT, Think his name was Ian?
Well done NO VOTERS hope they are going to f*** your land and water up for you. Congratulations.
I just did my first shop at Aldi – bye bye Asda
Govt pushing through rules to make banks untouchable…
link to techdirt.com
Pooling and sharing… broad shoulders… clout… world stage… punch above our weight… cliche… cliche… Better Together… UKOK… No Thanks…
Excellent! A nice ‘clean’ air war where nobody gets hurt apart from civilians! No ‘boots on the ground’ except for Dave’s “apart from”. Only £3bn for all this? Must’ve gone to Lidl! Still, Osborne’s right, the best way to eradicate poverty is to eradicate the poor…
Stumbling already.
Now SNP over 72,000 members.
bjsalba says:
29 September, 2014 at 6:26 pm
@Luigi No thank you on YES site.
As an activist I’ve had several e-mails and our local groups have had parties.
What has your local group done?
Nuthin.
Well bang goes(pardon the Pun ) the best part of the Oil Revenues for this year !
Schrödinger’s cat: I live in east Renfrewshire you know. We are not all rich! 36% of us did try our best to up the yes vote. It’s not my fault the odious Jim Murphy is my so called MP 🙁
I’ve been one of Asda,s most loyal customers. Started in the days that they had no shelves and just piled things on pallets! Maybe 40 years. I have not been over the door of Asda since they came out for NO. Instead I shop in Aldi and it’s fantastic! I’m saving a fortune! Well done Aldi and Lidl!
I’m finding it hard not to get very angry with the selfish NO voters. However I know that we do have to help them see the truth because if we don’t we could have violence here in Scotland and we don’t want that do we?
I’ve been a member of the SNP now for 38 years. I want Alex, Nicola, someone to come out now, on TV whatever, and tell it like it is! Someone has to counter all this crap from Westminster!
Milady, I’m not pointing fingers, I’m trying to work out what the party split was in 2011 was in the Scottish elections, problem being, the constituencies for holyrood are different for Westminster ge, eg, Ming Campbell won massifly in ne fife in 2011, the snp won in 2011 in a constituency almost exactly the same as Mingus.
It isn’t the case that all the ge and he constituencies are so similar in every region of Scotland, hence the questions
The reason we do this is to establish the exact state of affairs in each constituency so that we can target the canvassing more effectively
We want the Indy candidate to win east renfrewshire, any objections?
I sincerely hope that we are not going to be sold out for two packets of boiled sweets and a kitkat. Crash gordon was telling us about the devo max and that is the minimum we should be prepared to accept. Remember that the only bit of democracy we got was putting a x on a bit of paper. The rest was laughable, and we should not be letting that lie. All or nothing.
Peer Lord Glasman tells a Tory conference fringe meeting that both parties have acted in their short-term political interests during the Scottish independence debate without thought to the consequences.
Lord Glasman has said the No vote in the independence referendum has left the UK with a ‘huge number of problems’
Lord Glasman has said the No vote in the independence referendum has left the UK with a ‘huge number of problems’
Gordon Brown and David Cameron have “smashed” the Union by acting in their parties’ short-term political interests, a Labour peer has warned despite the Scottish nationalists losing the independence referendum.
Lord Glasman said Mr Brown’s promise of “a modern form of Scottish home rule” during the final days of the referendum campaign was incompatible with being part of the United Kingdom.
The academic and social thinker said one of the consequences was that Mr Brown would be the last Scottish Prime Minister and described this as a “tragedy for our country”.
Mr Cameron’s promise to ban Scottish MPs from voting on English laws in tandem with handing the Scottish Parliament more powers was a “classic case” of the parties “playing with the constitution”, he said.
Instead of thinking only about their “immediate self interest” and how announcements would play with voters, the peer said both sides needed to “step back” and think carefully about how they should reform the Union.
Lord Glasman was speaking at a fringe meeting at the Conservative conference in Birmingham hosted by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) about the impact of the referendum on England and the Union.
With the independence referendum on a knife edge earlier this month, all three pro-UK parties signed up to Mr Brown’s promise to create a “new Union” after a No vote with a fast-track timetable for devolving more powers over taxes and benefits.
But the cross-party consensus was shattered only hours after the result was announced when Mr Cameron announced outside Downing Street that the issue of English votes for English laws must be decided “in tandem”.
This would prevent Scottish MPs, 40 of which are Labour, voting at Westminster on issues such as English education and health care and would seriously hamper Ed Miliband’s ability to govern if he wins the general election.
Lord Glasman pointed out that Mr Cameron had not mentioned the English issue during the referendum campaign, saying: “This is just a classic case of both parties playing with the constitution in terms of their immediate party self interest.
“What we’ve done is smash the Union. Brown stood up and made a speech after which it was incapable for any Scot to be Prime Minister again – he’s the last. That’s a tragedy for our country.”
The lecturer in political theory at London Metropolitan University concluded: “If there’s a Union, there’s a Union but you can’t have home rule, complete control over your own affairs. I think we’ve got to step back here and re-conceptualise the Union.”
He said the No vote had left a “huge number of problems” and attacked the pro-UK Better Together campaign as being based on “begging, bullying and bribing. It was a nasty.”
Nick Pearce, the IPPR’s director, said the question over whether there could ever again be a Scottish Chancellor was more “pressing” the Scottish Prime Minister issue thanks to the Unionist parties’ plans to devolve income tax.
He said: “The minute all of income tax is decided in Scotland by a Scottish finance minister, it makes it much harder for an English chancellor (from Scotland) to legislate in a budget for English income tax.”
Speaking on the same panel, Rory Stewart, the Tory MP for Penrith and the Border, backed the Prime Minister’s English laws announcement but agreed with Lord Glasman that there needed to be a new “vision” of the United Kingdom and its constitution.
Luigi, what has your local party done…..nothing
What have you organized……….
Maybe people in your area are only waiting for someone to make a move.
Why not organize a yes bonfire on nov 5th, I,ll send you 200 koomfay ballons and a few disposable barbeques, bio degradable ones
Maybe people are just waiting for u to make a move?
SCottieDog
That is frightening.
Is HEALTH AND SAFETY LEGISLATION about to be dismantled, piece by piece?
Does anyone out there know how to get the names of the directors and shareholders of these arms companies I would like to know how many M.P.s or their family’s have holdings in these company’s and if they do have how much tax do they pay for dishing out death ? As for being a friend of Israel no thank you in the last war I hated the nazis for what they were doing to the Jews the nazis were the bad guys now we have the Jews doing almost the same thing to the poor people of Palestine so now I hate them I am not anti Semitic I am just anti bad guy and what’s wrong with that?
Re contacting other Yes groups who appear to have been abandoned by Yes Scotland (my words not theirs!)YesClydesdale.org has a massive list on their Links page. Most have Facebook addresses and a small amount with twitter & website addresses.
In the absence of YesScotland info, could this be a starting point for accumulating contacts with local groups?
Nick Pierce ,IPPR , expert? Does he not know who the First Lord of the Treasury is? Glasman says that we’ll never provide another Prime Minister and its a shame , it’s not a shame , it is a fundamentally big problem about the composition of any future cabinet , i.e. no spending minister from a Scottish constituency. Voting NO just gets better and better . With no clout at that table , how long will it be before we start to suffer . Mr Mundell will need a new job.
ScottieDog
it actually makes citizens (subjects as we truely are in the unions eyes), subservient to business interests.
Hi folks
I posted this comment on the previous thread, but no one’s on there any more (this seems to happen a lot to me) so here it is for what it’s worth.
My first question at our SNP branch meeting on Monday will be, “When do we start knocking on doors to find out how people intend to vote and why?”
My next question will be, “How do we co-ordinate this information in order to target the necessary people to change their minds?”
My third question will be, “Who do we have who can put together the necessary information for the different demographics?”
That is my sole aim for the next 8 months – working in the most effective way possible in order to get as many people voting SNP as possible. Okay, the SNP came 4th in my constituency in 2010, but if we can come a close second to the inevitable Tory b**tard who’ll be elected in the Scottish Borders, then that will be a major step forward for the next referendum.
The SNP for the first time has a large group of dedicated, experienced, bolshie and determined activists on its hands. I hope the leadership are ready for what’s about to hit them (in the nicest possible way!)
OT I know, but does anyone have a link to photos or footage of the demo at Pacific Quay?
If Scottish MPs will not be voting on English “matters” seems a bit silly to send some Labour ones – I’m sure that will be helpful for Labour voters to know.
When the Scottish Government raise taxes, as they will have to – under the austerity drive and cuts to the Scottish Block Grant – they should call the tax a ‘Westminster’ levy or a ‘No vote’ consequential.
@Natasha
I have asked about the demo also with no response at all.
Which BRIT can resist the menu served up by WESTMINSTER COOKS and their LABOUR WAITERS?
ENCOURAGE FRACKING BELOW HOUSES IN CENTRAL SCOTLAND
DENY FINANCIAL BENEFITS TO THOSE WHO DON’T HAVE A JOB
BOMB IRAQ (AGAIN)
CHARGE THE YOUNG TO LEARN
GET THE SICK TO PAY WHEN THEY ARE ILL
BUY MORE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
MANIPULATE THE PEOPLE WITH THE HELP OF NEWSPAPERS
GET THE NEWSPAPERS TO HIDE THE GOOD NEWS THAT A YES VOTE WOULD PROVIDE
GET THE BRITISH BROADCASTING CORPORATION TO TELL THE PEOPLE THAT YES IS BAD
Apparently, this is the menu for a better BRITAIN as created by The CONSERVATIVE PARTY, The LABOUR PARTY, and The LIBERAL PARTY.
Worth reposting
“dramfineday says:
29 September, 2014 at 5:46 pm
In the time that the SNP have left until the next Scottish elections, what new laws or reforms would the forum like to see introduced?
my starters for 10: –
work with our Yes partner, the green party, to introduce a land value tax.
Work in conjunction with our Yes partners to introduce a land reform bill.
In addition I’d like to see them start a number of hare’s running aimed at assuming powers, rather than waiting for them. Also start calling in experts from our Yes partners, when taking about reform and change as supportive background.
All that, plus equitable distribution of the forthcoming cuts; sorting out the press and the EBC, should keep them busy.
PS 45% wanted change – time the SNP government started to shake the tree a bit harder and examine what of the 55%falls out in the way of vested interests, duplication and waste.
Over to you guys.”
100 percent behind this!
@Natasha
“The SNP for the first time has a large group of dedicated, experienced, bolshie and determined activists on its hands. I hope the leadership are ready for what’s about to hit them (in the nicest possible way)”.
Couldn’t agree more with your post Natasha. I’m sure many, many people feel the same way.
From Yes Aberdeenshire – CONTINUE FORWARD
@Ian Mackay 8.19pm
Ha ha, love it. The No Vote Consequential!!
CPC
Boris
“Why should we allow these “former adjutants of Gordon Brown” to wreck the economy again, asks Boris Johnson to cheers #CPC14
HandandShrimp says:
29 September, 2014 at 6:29 pm
Muttley
I have to say that I am mildly surprised by both Annabel and Iain as choices although they are both former Holyrood party leaders. Tomkins astounds me as a choice notwithstanding the legal constitutional knowledge he is hardly a keen proponent of Scottish self determination. However, I think it will be the final choice by Labour that may set the seal. Certainly Swinney and Harvie should be able to argue their corner in this group and I think Moore will push a federal line….Tavish? who knows?
Mildly surprised? MILDLY SURPRISED??? Oh for heavens sake Shrimp-anyone with more than a coupla brain cells will know that this travesty of a commission aint goin nowhere!
Of COURSE the onionists will put up these nonentities as they are dyed in the wool onionists who have proved that they dont wish ANY powers towards the land of their birth!
There was no way though, that they COULDN’T invite the SNP along(To prove the “democratic” spin)
The SNP will, as always, be the only true Scots in this charade who will actually put up a fight for the homeland, unlike these other lickspittles!
@bookie from hell
The lecturer in political theory at London Metropolitan University concluded: “If there’s a Union, there’s a Union but you can’t have home rule, complete control over your own affairs. I think we’ve got to step back here and re-conceptualise the Union.”
I do not like the sound of that.
@Flower of Scotland
“I’ve been a member of the SNP now for 38 years. I want Alex, Nicola, someone to come out now, on TV whatever, and tell it like it is! Someone has to counter all this crap from Westminster”.
Aye, what about a straight talking dismantler?
Someone who’s sole responsibility is to deconstruct the festering mass of deceit and lies. Someone like Stuart?
That would be good I agree. Maybe Jim Sillars could be persuaded?
I see the daily reckord have resorted to making t.v. Adverts. Smacks of desperation! 🙂
@Natasha
The SNP for the first time has a large group of dedicated, experienced, bolshie and determined activists on its hands. I hope the leadership are ready for what’s about to hit them (in the nicest possible way!)
I get what you are saying. However, it is up to the leadership to decide on the correct strategy. I hope people are not signing up imagining it will be like a re run of the Yes campaign. The SNP have to be disciplined, serious political force and machine. They would not have got this far without being so. The Greens and the SSP are more grassroots organisations.
@SquareHaggis
Great link, really inspiring video. Thanks. 🙂
@Luigi says: 29 September, 2014 at 3:20 pm:
“This is bound to be tied up with English votes for English laws.”
Of course it is. This is what I’ve been trying to get across since devolved parliaments were first mentioned.
It is now, though, staring you squarely in the face. The UK Government is exactly as David Mundell told you it was when he said, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”. Now if you look at it with that in mind – Westminster is the Parliament of England renamed as the Parliament of the United Kingdom and as such the Scottish, Welsh & N.I. Members are surplus to England’s requirements
The stark truth is they took the two kingdom Union Treaty and interpreted it as the 533 members of Westminster Parliament from England decided it would mean. This in flagrant defiance of the actual text on the treaty paper. They used their massive English majority, (plus the usual ("Tractor" - Ed)ous Scottish faction), and the total unawareness of the majority of Welsh & N. Irish Members to force England’s will upon the Scottish, Welsh and N.I. People and they have now indeed got away with it.
There is no legally elected Parliament of England for the simple reason they have no need for one. Remember what Mundell said, “They renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”. The writing was really on the wall and now the final step is in hand. All they now required is to prevent the Scots, Welsh & Northern Irish, (who are, after all, elected members of, “The United Kingdom Parliament”, a.k.a. “The Parliament of England”), from legally interfering in their de facto Parliament of England to make Westminster into the actual Parliament of England with, of course full sovereignty over Scotland, Wales & N.I. … Job Done!
A N Surgent says
“They should just stand in a big crowd waving their flags, that would be much fairer.”
What?
Like this you mean?
link to youtube.com
http://www.YesClydesdale.org is very good. Checked a few and one or two aren’t there, but most are – and updated as of today or yesterday. Just in case it disappears, it’d be a good idea if one or more of you regulars copied the 4 links pages as I did (I’m not a regular).
Sorry if it’s teaching egg-sucking but to save in IE, get the page up, click “view” then “source”, go on that to “file”, “save as” (not save), then down to filename as “xxx.html” and “save as type” as “All Files”. You might want to set up a folder first.
[…] Demand and Supply, Wings over Scotland. The Rev. Stuart Campbell offers two images for our consideration highlighting the UK governments ability to find billions for war while cutting back on welfare. Full story here. […]
At the last GE in 2010 there was a 63.8% turnout. Total voting 2,465,722. At the Referendum on 18 September 2014, there was a turnout of 84.6%. Total voting 3,283,392 (3,429 votes invalid). 1,617,989 YES to 2,001,926 NO. Now let’s assume, fired up and raging YES all come out again all 1,617,989 of us. Let’s also assume that the complacent NO go back to their 2010 63.8% turnout or 1,277,229.At the 2010 election only 1,035,528 voted Labour in total. That alone seems to be a big cloud on SLAB’s horizon. BUT also throw into that mix that even conservatively only 30% traditional labour voters voted YES. Using the same 2010 election total labour voters, labour are going to lose at least 310,658 voters to a YES party leaving SLAB at the most conservative estimate a core vote of only 724,870, at normal general election levels, compared to 1.6 million YES votes. Now add that 310,658 onto the SNP 2010 General election total voters of 491,386 and that’s still an SNP lead of 802,044 compared to SLAB’s core vote of only 724,870. Throw in the angry soft NO voters who wished they voted YES and the First Past The Post System anomalies and it could be ‘Good night, Vienna’ come May for many, many ‘weel kent’ labour vizogs. Seeing Murphy, Brown, Alexander, Davidson etc. etc faces as they stand on those stages trying no to greet as they lose their ‘jobs for life’ safe labour seats, is keeping me going til May. It cannot come quick enough.
A good example of wealth generation without the national currency…
link to p2pfoundation.net
Thanks Cuilean, that’s cheered me up no end!
Listen to ‘Angry Salmond’ on Michael Greenwell’s podcast so just wait for him to step down in November, real fireworks are coming.
@Cuilean
I don’t want to piss in your tent, but some of those names may be out of reach. First-past-the-post is a very difficult nut to crack, and they have huge majorities. It would be great to get some of them out, but SLAB’s downfall will not happen overnight (even if you argue that in started in 2007). It is likely to be a drawn out affair. It took a lot of elections for the Tories’ decline to become evident, and they were not nearly as strong as SLAB.
Hi Folks
I have started up a website – just getting it together at the moment
It will have forums / chat rooms / shop
If anyone has ideas for what products we should be doing and also has any art work they would like to see on products let us know on the forums
Chat room should be up and running around about friday
You can reserve the same nickname you use on here if you join the forums
To keep us safe from trolls – entry to the chatrooms will be for registered forum users only
link to 45ersplus.forumchitchat.com
any other suggestions – just let us know your ideas on the forum
@cynicalHighlander
What did he say? I could not hear him very well when I listened to it and gave up.
Piggy: Aye, what about a straight talking dismantler?
It needs a new face who says it in new memorable ways.
But it will take a large heart and rhino skin to survive the vehement antagonism of Anglophiles. Salmond had the streak of ruthlessness backed by a fine political knowledge to match the worst at Westminster.
@Macandroid says:29 September, 2014 at 3:24 pm:
“Not FFA unless we have control over all revenue streams. I’m not sure that’s what he is saying.”
Of course it isn’t, Macandroid, had you forgotten the United Kingdom Parliament, (a.k.a. “The de facto Parliament of England”), owns ALL the revenues from, “Extra-Regio Territories”?
Indeed, now they have got those rebellious Scots back into their box, the de facto Parliament of England will see no further need to maintain that over generious 8.4% share of those UK, (a.k.a. The de facto parliament of England), revenues that the de facto Parliament of England subsidises Scotland with.
Hence the simple statement that the Scots can raise and spend all their own revenues. With, of course a contribution towards the reserved functions including UK defence?
@Grouse Beater
I think Sturgeon has what is required. Anyone that saw her demolition job on Carmichael and Moore cannot help but to have been impressed (unless you are a diehard Brit nat that is).
@muttley79
What I thought before once one is not shackled by position then one is able to speak ones mind, gloves are off bare knuckles are the only game in town. When something is stolen from you by underhand means which this referendum was then forget the fireworks WMD will be unleashed.
@Grouse Beater
Totally agree that specific qualities are essential for this type of role.
And, yes, a new face and new mannerisms might help catch the tide of youth currently building within the country.
It’s an important time and an opportunistic one also. I hope that the SNP are actively developing a strategy, and also contemplating how to provide some element of focus for the massive force that sits waiting for direction.
The willingness within people to act is strong, and this should be harnessed quickly by the SNP in providing a sense or purpose of direction.
I would urge the senior members of the party to act swiftly and respond to the demonstration of support from the people of Scotland who have clearly put their faith in them.
THEY ACTIVELY ENGAGED THEM, and NOW THEY MUST GUIDE THEM.
@HandandShrimp says: 9 September, 2014 at 4:12 pm:
There also seems to be at least three if not four separate alternative media groups setting something up. Again we need to concentrate our energies and pull these together to make a good thing.
We actually really need at least two. A Freeview TV Channel and a DAB/FM Radio channel. The on-line stuff is great but it talks mainly to the converted. Many of the older, retired folk, get up and turn on the Radio, or even awake to a radio alarm set to Radio Scotland. Others awake and switch on the TV.
Any sane person who watches a diet of BBC morning TV or listens to the brain numbing Radio Scotland will not remain sane for very long. Some of it is totally idiotic. What elderly person is actually really interested in, for example buying up almost derelict property at auction to renovate for profit? How many are looking for big priced homes in exotic locations to retire to? How many cooking programmes can one person watch? It is wall to wall cheap to produce pap for idiots, interspersed with Westminster propaganda.
@Grouse Beater:
“Salmond had the streak of ruthlessness backed by a fine political knowledge to match the worst at Westminster.”
Too true! He is also a very sharp listener, and often feeds them back their lines, to display their paucity! He strikes me as very intelligent, but careful not to use that to put ordinary folk down, sharp witted, a good people reader, a certain amount of charm, and knows how to move the chess pieces. I sound fawning, but I have been around politicians my whole working life, and he is a fairly rare specimen.
We should look at Ireland’s history to inspire us. In 1914 few would have forecast a republican landslide in 1918, but that is what happened after the “defeat” of the Easter Rising in 1916. Every Unionist MP is vulnerable, and they know it. Lets do it. Faint hearts won no fair lady or election victory. There are, as of lunch time today, over 72,000 SNP members available to take this democratic struggle forward. We might not win all the seats, but, by God, we can transform totally the post referendum calculus.
Anyone who wonders how on earth I can support UDI: THIS is why.
How many more people is the British State going to murder before it becomes less catastrophic for the people of Scotland to risk expulsion from the EU, lack of recognition from NATO, and a whole host of other hazards, when we’re seeing not only the continued destruction of Britain’s most vulnerable, but an acceleration and exacerbation of that horror? And now we’re going to be funding the missiles killing innocent people under the illusion of “peacemaking”, making us a target for the desperate radicals, just as the head of MI5 pointed out.
And guess what? The National Service Bill will be going for a second reading early next year. All those unemployed young people, now stripped of benefits, will have no choice but to enroll themselves into the war machine. They can’t stay with their parents, because they’ll have had to move out of their home due to the EXTRA BEDROOM. There is no other option for them.
That’s my cousins the Tories are planning on putting into National Service. My family, my friends. My people. Being press-ganged into war under the guise of “doing their duty for their country.” I would sooner see my cousins in jail for “desertion” or “cowardice” than see them shipped off to a foreign country to die or kill in an unjust war.
How much more of this are we going to put up with? The SNP gradualist approach has worked well so far, but I’m genuinely frightened that it’s going to get to the point where the descent of Britain becomes so rapid that it’ll be too late to save Scotland.
We had the shot to avoid all this on the 19th. Now we’ll have one last chance in 2015. After that, no, no more excuses. The death is becoming too much for me.
Schrödinger’s cat says:
29 September, 2014 at 7:49 pm
Luigi, what has your local party done…..nothing
What have you organized……….
Maybe people in your area are only waiting for someone to make a move.
Why not organize a yes bonfire on nov 5th, I,ll send you 200 koomfay ballons and a few disposable barbeques, bio degradable ones
Maybe people are just waiting for u to make a move?
I’m interested to do something, although I’m not keen to celebrate the fact that parliament was not blown up! I don’t use Facebook or Twitter, so not sure how to reach people now that everyone has dispersed.
These Labour MPs voted for Iraq 3:
Douglas Alexander, Willie Bain, Gordon Banks, Russell Brown, Tom Clarke, Alistair Darling, Thomas Docherty, Gemma Doyle, Tom Greatrex, Tom Harris, Jimmy Hood, Cathy Jamieson, Michael McCann, Jim McGovern, Jim Murphy, Pamela Nash, Sandra Osborne, John Robertson, Lindsay Roy, Anas Sarwar, Jim Sheridan.
I presume they’ll be joining up soon to put boots on the ground, rather than sending other people’s children to die for them.
Another 552 members and the SNP has 1000 members in each of Scotlands 73 Holyrood constituencies.
That’s 10 super activists, 100 get out and do activists and 300 or so who will do a bit. A Westminster constituency is 45000 houses or the 300 only need to do 150 each, an hour and a half and the constituency could be leafletted. Canvassing 2hours 4nights 20houses per pair per night gives 4000 per week for 8 weeks from start of Mar 2015 is 32000 of the 45000 done. That is the sort of work that the whole of the SNP put into the Glenrothes or Glasgow East bye elections going on in each and every Westminster constituency all at the same time and no spare bodies available to ship up from rUK to counteract that.
This is a whole different ball game. All the stuff from Scotland Votes and Electoral Calculus is worthless in the face of such and onslaught. Willie Bain, Gordon Brown look out your CVs, nobody is safe
Kestral, someone else has started a forum here.
link to 45.hubberts-arms.org
I’ve joined but not posted. I’m not hugely impressed so far but it seems to need better posters, not competition.
I see the ghastly “45” thing is in the url, but at least it’s not in the name of the forum itself. I can scarcely bring myself to sign up to anything with 45 in the name. I’m hoping it dies soon, but if it’s enshrined in this way, some hope. And that won’t be good for us.
@Robert Peffers. Indeed I also think that this is the Tory game plan and there is no way we will keep the oil revenue which they consider is a UK revenue resource, extra-regio is just an accounting method to keep it off Scotlands books.
Where I disagree with you is that the WM does not hold all the cards. The key point is transparency V obfuscation vis a vis Scottish resources and spending really in Scotland.
Cameron I think has done a 1984 and believed some of his own propaganda. If you take a look at Niall Aslens the great deception (my Alias is kind of related to this) and look at Gers it is clear that Scotlands finances are understated while our share of spend is overstated.
If we can account for everything, even if not controlling everything, even with oil going to WM then the strength of the Scottish economy will become much more clear. 9 times out of 10 the ‘unidentifiable’ spending which is added to Scotland pro-rata is clearly not spent in Scotland to the level allocated. Defence is a prime example.
If we want the Scottish parliament to be accountable (Which Unionists say they want), then it has to have audited accounts for the entire revenue and spending of all devolved parts. It is then also clearer how much these other UK wide services cost us and how much activity comes back to Scotland.
The only problem for all this is that it ends most of the obfuscation so I cannot see WM allowing an easy to administrate, transparent system for Scotlands Accounts. As Calman stated – FFA, even without oil, would end the Union.
Taranaich,
Very well said sir !
And can anyone tell me why all my mail from wings,Bella and butterfly rebellion is now going straight into junk mail ?
I have come to the inescapable conclusion it is time to put aside ‘punching above our weight,’ and start punching the excuses of idiots cheerful to undermine their nation’s hopes.
Handclapping, one of the problems is that the new members, like the old ones, won’t be evenly distributed. Constituencies that are already good for the SNP will be mob-handed, while those with relatively little support will still be struggling for bodies to go round.
If I see certain farm roads one more time in my life it’ll be once too often, but needs must come the spring I suppose.
@Taranaich
I do not believe that UDI is an option at all. I understand people are still really disappointed, but to be honest declaring UDI is easily the worst thing you can do. TO say that it makes the international community pissed off with you is a massive understatement. The circumstances that we got beat are not even controversial by international standards. The UK government was bound to lobby to get other governments to oppose Scottish independence. The BBC and the rest of the MSM were always going to be extremely biased. The No campaign were bound to scare pensioners and run the most negative, spiteful campaign. I am afraid all of this was largely predictable before the campaign began.
If we declared UDI having got beat in these circumstances, no nation would recognise our independence. We would probably have wrecked our chances of ever becoming independent. I am not sure how isolated people realise we would be if we did a UDI.
Meanwhile the UK government, press and media, wax lyrical about the ensembled crowds in Hong Kong, warning China to allow such ‘peaceful’ civil disobedience to express itself without threats.
‘They want reforms,’ say kindly western observers, and should be given them. ‘The scale and self-confidence is impressive.’
Hoo haar!
They probably don’t even notice the inconsistency.
@Morag
How do you know where the new members will be based? I agree that most are not going to be based in rural areas.
Seeing as the SNP are now the 3rd biggest paty in the UK,I will expect the BBC to give their party conference in November the same air time as the tory/labour ones.
@EphemeralDeception – very interesting post on the virtues of transparency.
More on the subject of tracking
link to wolfstreet.com
It’s the way it usually distributes itself. Constituencies are of similar sizes so it’s not about urban and rural (though indeed forces are spread thinner in rural areas), it’s about where the general support is. If there’s a lot of SNP support there, there will be a lot of members. If not, not.
Original post somehow ended up in New readers section.
I see that the bbc are this Wed going tell us how the referendum was won. I may be prejudging this but somehow I cant see them admitting to media bias, misinformation, intimidation etc.
Somehow can’t see this telling us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Maybe our new media could produce a counter to this, to be broadcast as and when.
As I say, I could be prejudging this, but we are talking about the state proaganda broadcaster.
@EphemeralDeception
We definitely will not get the oil revenues. That is to be taken as red. I reckon we will get what Rev Stu has written about on this website, namely all of income tax devolved, and hence massive cuts in our block grant. We will not get corporation tax either. Basically it will be dressed up as more powers when it is really more responsibility.
Britain (and the US) urge Hong Kong authorities to ‘show retraint.’
The thousands of protestors are ‘fighting to protect democracy.’
A Foreign Office Spokesman said, ‘Hong Kong’s prosperity is underpinned by its fundamental rights and freedoms, including the right to demonstrate.’
This crap from a nation that kettled and then outlawed similar Occupy demonstrations, and demonised students taking part.
Muttley, I’m aware that SLAB, despite having only 42% of votes in 2010 GE, acqured 70% of the 59 MP seats, under the first past the post system and that the SNP with 20% of the popular vote only secured 10% of the 59 seats. But look at that. Only 4 years ago the SNP polled only 20% but last week we (YES) polled 45%! Murphy polled 25,987 and SNP 4,535. It seems a huge lead but factor in that half of that 86% NOs turnout going back to sleep (as the grannies pensions are safe and the Orange Order don’t have to worry about the Queen being replaced by the Pope) whilst the other half of that 86% turnout, the YES side, are ‘nursing our wrath to keep it warm’, so we are not going back into our box, then that seemingly unassailbale lead of Murphy’s may be on a very shoogly peg. Added to which Murphy accrued a huge amount of empathy over the egg throwing stunt. I think his constituents, given his vote to blow up brown people far away this week are itching to let the entitled SLAB elite know just what we think of them. I think the Lib Dems may be harder to shift as who does a disaffected Liberal in Scotland vote for? Tories? No. Labour? NO. SNP? No. They’ll probably vote Green in protest. Och who knows. First past the post makes it all a bit random but if only 75% of the YES who voted on 18th turnout, I think we will get an awful lot of scalps, even SLAB’s humpty dumpty himself and all the Queen’s horses and all the Queen’s men couldn’t put Murphy together again.
@Morag
You are best to have as many members in urban areas as possible because that is where the mass of the population is. Anyway, we are never going to win over most of the people in rural areas. I would rather have the vast majority of members living in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen than most of the them living in the highlands for instance (no offence against that beautiful area).
Is it not just grand to see natural justice! Labour MSP complaining because the RBS is closing his local branch hahaha how we laughed.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
@Cuilean
I would be cautious about the general election next year. I would love to see Murphy slung out on his ear, but he has a massive majority. We will see.
@HandandShrimp says: 29 September, 2014 at 6:23 pm:
“To be honest near the end I am not sure Yes Scotland needed to do any organising. We became a very big and very real grass roots movement.”
I’ve seen nothing like this self-generating grass-roots movement in the United Kingdom since I became a political animal as a wee boy in 1946. Nothing to date comes even close and anyone who thinks this is going away any time soon is deluded. Furthermore, anyone who thinks they can ignore such a grass-roots movement must think again for such movements are unstopable. Nothing, (except a budgie wi nae teeth), can succeed like an idea whose time has come. The idea of Scottish Independence has arrived and it really intends to stay.
It’s probably swings and roundabouts to some extent, but remember constituencies are roughly equal numbers of voters so urban areas will be well supplied anyway.
Living near a triple county boundary, I went to help in two other local authority areas during the referendum. Both required a shorter drive than to reach where my own team was canvassing – by some way.
Both were well supplied with eager warm bodies. 45 minutes leafleting in a team of 4, one of multiple such teams, and the whole bloody town seemed to be done. A work colleague told me his area was losing activists because they were running out of work for them.
Meanwhile we were killing ourselves covering an adjacent rural area. We’re too hung up on the county boundaries, I should have shanghied some people from Yes Clydesdale.
Disappointed doesn’t cut it, my friend: people I know have died due to Westminster’s cuts. I have personally been impoverished over the years to the point where I’m finding it difficult to make ends meet. Everyone in my family is the same. Independence is not just a matter of pride or democracy for me, it’s a matter of survival. “Disappointed” is an understatement.
Is it really worse than seeing tens of thousands more of our people dying of hypothermia, malnutrition, or lack of basic healthcare needs because of a succession of governments we didn’t vote for? Is it really worse than contributing to another illegal war which WILL radicalise a new generation of Muslims? Is it really worse remaining part of what is increasingly looking like a state on the brink of failure with its £1.5trillion+ debt? If not, then at what point WILL it become worse? Will it be when National Service is put into place? Will it be when Holyrood is dissolved? Will it be when fracking destroys the Central belt? At what point does UDI become the only option to save Scotland – if ever? Would it be preferable for Scotland to be extinguished for good than to declare UDI?
To be frank, I’m feeling isolated enough having no voice at the EU, having no power to stop English legislation to sell off our resources, and having no power to stop Westminster destroying our environment and people. The international community seem perfectly happy to keep their nose out of our business, but will then step in to harm us rather than aid us? Then to hell with the international community. England will invade us? Then at least they’ll be open in their intentions towards us.
Perhaps I’m blinded by my horror at Westminster. Perhaps the fact that my nearest and dearest have been personally impoverished by Westminster policies over the course of decades has made me desperate. Perhaps I myself have been hurt and hurt and hurt again by Westminster that I’m starting to seriously get to the end of my tether. But I’m honestly starting to lose any patience with the long run. Let’s say it goes to 2017, snap post-Euro referendum. How many people will have died because of Westminster policy at that time? And what if it doesn’t work? Would more people die as a result of UDI? If that could be proven, then it would be one thing. I don’t care about our riches, I don’t care about our standing, I just want people to stop dying.
I sense I’m getting quite hysterical here, so I’ll shut up. But just think, it’s barely two weeks after the referendum. We’ve see cuts to winter fuel allowance promised by Labour, cuts to benefits, cuts to the block grant, cuts to Barnett, broken promises, and another war. We have MONTHS to go until the Westminster elections. How much worse is it going to get before we either get this organised, or before UDI becomes the safe option?
@HandandShrimp says:29 September, 2014 at 6:29 pm:
“….Tavish? who knows?”
Considering that Tavish hasn’t a clue what to say … who indeed could know?
Girl I know is a full time carer for her mum who is 87 and had 2 strokes, she has a daughter with chrones and she still goes out to work in the evening, (cleaning) to make ends meet and they are trying to cut her benefit, now Westminster wants to go to war in Iraq to save Tory Blairs shares and many others who invested heavily with UI (South Korean oil company who own a lot of Iraqi oil). priorities are all fucked up
@Morag
I’ve no idea what the spread of the new members is but I dont see them just as an equal % increase in what the SNP branches had already.
These are mainly Yes supporters joining so 37% ex Labour 30% ex LibDems even 5% ex Tories so yes I suppose you could postulate more joining in the Central belt where Labour is prevalent but you should also be picking up ex LibDems in places like Berwickshire or NE Fife.
If you look at it that way its an added bonus as its in the Labour heartlands that we need to work to get the Unionists out
@ Cuilean
Re: disaffected Liberals –
in 2011 they managed to vote SNP in a lot of places. I know it’s true that votes for Westminster do not necessarily match those for Holyrood (even in the constituencies), but it seems reasonable to conclude that they are not so hostile to the SNP that they would not even consider voting for them – unlike the ultra-tribal Labour core vote. If they like their MSPs, they might go that extra step, especially if they feel let down by the coalition.
Some Labour majorities are daunting; but even some of those seats changed hands in 2011, and those voters who perhaps broke the habit of a lifetime might consider doing so at Westminster too. It all depends on whether they buy the “only Labour can keep the Tories out” and “Labour is different from the Tories” lines simultaneously.
Maybe that’s what we have to work on.
muttley.
i have the A.Salmond interview on my google plus page. I listened to the whole thing with a pair of headphones. I was impressed again by the man. he will have much to offer when he is released from the restraints of office. he sounded angry and left me in no doubt that the movement Goes on . it’s saved on my “posts”
link to ah-me.com
It’s worth the wee bairn butting in and shows wee Eck is going no where.
I have learned to like the guy and worried when he stepped down that the fire would go with him.
Not bloody likely.
@Taranaich
I am not saying that people have not died because of the Tories. What I am saying is that UDI is in political terms suicidal. If you want to kill your chances of ever getting independence then that is what you do. UDI is not an option I am afraid to say. Of course it is not worse than people dying of hyperthermia etc, but that happens in England as well as Scotland. These things are much, much worse. But they are still not a reason to effectively end your chances of ever getting independence by going down the UDI route.
that link went straight to a porn site
Sorry folks no idea how that happened.
link to spreaker.com
i would say oops but it really was not me …
no it has happened to a couple of the links . now …
off to run some spyware.
that link works
@robert Peffers said:
“We actually really need at least two. A Freeview TV Channel and a DAB/FM Radio channel. The on-line stuff is great but it talks mainly to the converted. Many of the older, retired folk, get up and turn on the Radio, or even awake to a radio alarm set to Radio Scotland. Others awake and switch on the TV.”
Thank god someone else has understood what we need..!
If we want to reach every household we simply have to a TV channel capable of reaching them. The cheapest and most simple way is probably via Freeview 24/7.
The content must also be enticing enough to make people watch it and then lace it with good news programmes and documentaries.
I admire the folk starting up online broadcasting but it’s not coordinated and just makes chatting to ourselves more professional in our bubble.
Why don’t they all get together under one roof, create a media centre, pool their equipment, budget together and let everyone mutually benefit from the synergetic effect.
All pooling their parts into a single 24/7 channel.
The same goes for Radio with Bateman. He needs to be under the same roof as the TV folk with the same effect.
I think we are missing a trick here. No voters were blue labour voters, they love the way that labour have moved to the right, they adore them they are the tories in a different guise the name still says labour. They will not move
@Taranaich –
I know there are personal reasons why you would perhaps shun the idea of becoming a ‘public’ face of the Yes movement, but I’m sure there are many who would agree that you are the kind of character we need now.
Your writing is brilliant because it’s from the heart, and if you could convey even a fraction of that passion to people in community halls etc, you’d be a fantastic asset to whichever group you chose to represent.
And never say never. Many people, during that long campaign, ended up doing things they never thought themselves capable of (especially the dreaded ‘public speaking’) and found that it’s really not such a big deal after all – not when what you have to say is something you believe.
@Midgehunter
Agreed. This really needs to happen. There is too many new media projects for my liking from Yes supporters. A bit of co-ordination, and dare I say it…pooling and sharing of resources by Yes media would not go amiss. 😀 😀
@YESGUY
I say what an unfortunate turn of events…What happened there?
If that was the case, then Ireland, Albania, Bangladesh, Northern Cyprus, Croatia, Slovenia, and Kosovo have killed their chance at independence with their UDIs. What would make Scotland different? I absolutely think a strong case could be made that the UK government broke the Edinburgh Agreement on multiple occasions, and the UK certainly isn’t many countries’ best friend right now. It baffles me how a country that the entire EU NEEDS to remain in the EU would be resolutely shunned in the event of UDI.
If KOSOVO of all countries can be a functioning independent country regardless of being unrecognized, then so can oil and resource-rich Scotland. I just don’t understand why UDI is so much worse than being part of such a destructive and dangerous state.
@Pentland Firth at 9:46 pm
Re Ireland’s history
The people in ireland did not really support the 1916 rising – what really turned them against English Rule was the brutality of the reprisals – all the leaders were shot including badly wounded Scotsman james connolly who had to be tied to a chair opposite the firing party.
Many young men were put in gaol in england and so on.
The majority of the irish people then voted for sinn fein ( then equivalent to SNP today) in the 1918 election and england refused to accept the outcome of the election . move to a war footing.
I hope the scottish people never have to go through anything similar.
Maybe the hardship caused by the various cuts and wars Westminster is proposing for scotland (and the rest of the UK) will strengthen the scottish people’s resolve to move forward towards independence in the coming year or two.
With regards to news about the edinburgh demos at the weekend – i managed to find a twitter photo which i have inserted into my latest post. i searched hard for a video but found nothing.
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
@ Taranaich
UDI is NOT an option. PERIOD!
Talk of UDI’s is going to harm our cause more than talk of a rigged referendum.
Some facts need to be faced I’m afraid. We’ve just had an historic vote with mass participation and we lost. Forty-five percent is fairly close, but it’s not close enough and the No side actually secured about 20% more physical votes than we did. Furthermore, only 37% of the electorate actually voted Yes.
Talk of UDI’s is frankly ridiculous. If people thought that the banks were leaving a fortnight ago, they sure as hell would with an undemocratic UDI and they’d take most businesses with them too. Scotland would be a wasteland in weeks and I suspect there would be tanks rolling across the border.
I’m sorry, but you need to take a deep breath and look forward to making a difference (again) in May 2015. This situation is not going to be resolved from the outside of the system.
@YESGUY
The result of the referendum was not the end for those of us who seek a true democracy. Many, many ordinary folk like you and I who became engaged in the debate truly believed what we were arguing for.
Now that particular candle has been lit in our souls it will not be extinguished any time soon. The fight for a fairer society and an end to the greed and corruption will go on.
I know you will be part of that for as long as you can contribute, me too buddy. Keep the head held high knowing that you were doing the right thing, only 5% to persuade.
Already the Unionists parties are starting to unravel, there will be another referendum and this time we will prevail!
As regards Alex Salmond I would hope he takes the lead in setting up a new independent voice in the media. He has the power to help raise the necessary finance and get this off the ground.
OK, I think I’m actually going to bow out now. I realise that this sort of thing is pretty crazy, but I hope you’ll understand just how desperate and frustrated I am.
I’m just very worried I’m going to lose my patience, and indeed my health, if we don’t learn from the result of the referendum. The fight is going to be much, much harder, and what’s worse, we’re going to have to suffer for another few years at the very least until we get our independence, be it a second referendum, or whatever other mechanism is employed.
@liz says: 29 September, 2014 at 6:43 pm:
“If anyone moans about what’s happening I’m going to say it’s what the nos voted for.”
Just so, Liz. This was the first day I managed out since referendum day as I had a daft wee accident and hurt my neck. The wee Papillon and I went to Kirkcaldy’s Chapel Level as she needed pet food among other things.
The wee dog is a trained befriender and few can resist her welcome and they stop to speak. I was surprised at the numbers who brought up the referendum. This as I still wore several YES badges on the woolly hat and my jacket.
To my surprise I ended up with an impromptu Yes meeting outside the pet shop with six or seven total strangers. Then several other’s along the shops with ones and twos. Seems the public has not nearly had enough of the independence subject.
So do say, “it’s what the NOs voted for”, but say it with your YES badges proudly showing.
@Tartan Tories
Yep, completely agree.
[…] To the fifty-five percent who backed fear and greed, Westminster thanks you, they get to bomb people, they get to make you pay for austerity and distract you with that funny bloke who runs UKIP, British politics can get back to business as usual. […]
Cuilean says:
29 September, 2014 at 8:59 pm
At the last GE in 2010 there was a 63.8% turnout. Total voting 2,465,722. At the Referendum on 18 September 2014, there was a turnout of 84.6%. Total voting 3,283,392 (3,429 votes invalid). 1,617,989 YES to 2,001,926 NO. Now let’s assume, fired up and raging YES all come out again all 1,617,989 of us.
Remember to deduct the 16-17 y/o
Taranaich, it’s OK to sound off on Wings. You saying you feel like supporting UDI isn’t going to make it happen, and it makes for an interesting conversation. So carry right on venting.
@Taranaich –
The frustration is almost unbearable.
The last few days have been grim. It’s as if the initial shock has worn off, anger has blazed briefly, but then the realisation has slammed home – ‘normal service has been resumed’.
‘Normal service’ = endless Westminster rule, war, misery and hopelessness.
It feels as if Scotland is wearing a gimp suit and is securely locked in the cellar where no-one can hear us scream.
I’m very very close to giving up the ghost. If it wasn’t for my pals here, and in the SSP, I would’ve chucked it by now.
@Ian Brotherhood
It feels like that but 45 per cent voted for independence, could you have predicted that 10 years ago? I could not have. Others got deceived by the Devo max talk.