The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Dazed and confused

Posted on December 14, 2011 by

Perhaps it's because the source of the news is the notoriously thirsty Labour peer Lord Foulkes, but we're amazed more hasn't been made of yesterday's bringing forward of an amendment to the Scotland Bill by the aforementioned Baron of Cumnock. We're not entirely sure how this fits in with the good Lord's previous assertion just last month that the Bill would in fact have to be scrapped altogether, but if passed the amendment would be nothing short of political dynamite.

At a stroke it would grant what amounts to "devo max", massively spiking the SNP's guns by delivering overnight the constitutional arrangement favoured by around 70% of the Scottish people. The battle lines of the independence referendum, which are currently hardening with every passing day around the two most extreme options, would be hugely blurred, and it would seem obvious that full independence would be far more likely to be rejected by the electorate, if only in favour of giving the new settlement a fair crack of the whip first.

We can find no informed commentator anywhere in the professional media offering a view as to the amendment's likely chances of success, and even the blogosphere has shown almost no interest, so we can only assume that they're low. We must admit that, not for the first time, we're at a loss to understand the FUD camp's ineptitude.

A devo-max Scotland Bill would present the SNP with a huge dilemma – refusing to give it assent in the Scottish Parliament would be unthinkable, but accepting it would rob them of their best weapon in the referendum, and arguably also of much of their reason to exist at all.

(As an aside, it would at least be amusing to watch which way Scottish Labour voted on consent, given how venomously they've attacked devo-max in the last seven months despite it being the preferred option of the vast majority of their supporters. And it would also be quite funny if devo-max was implemented by the Tories and Lib Dems, with Labour opposed. It might actually be the final nail in the party's coffin in Scotland, and we wonder if the Coalition is tempted to pass it for that reason alone.)

Of course, looked at from another angle, such a development would be a colossal victory for the Nationalists, delivering 90% of independence, along with the all-important oil revenues, without a single vote having to be cast. They could easily and legitimately defer the referendum in such exceptional circumstances, and then invite Scots to take what would then be a much less traumatic step towards full independence after a few years of competent FFA government. But it's equally possible that the electorate would be happy with what it had, with little appetite for the massive infrastructural upheaval the dissolution of the UK would involve.

Lord Foulkes' amendment might be the last best chance of preserving the Union. Obviously that makes it a bad thing in this blog's view, but all the same we're a little surprised nobody seems to be paying it any attention.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

9 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Thee Forsaken One

I think it's largely being ignored because it is being proposed by Lord Foulke's sake and his constantly changing message has made many tired.
If it actually passes, I can see it getting insane amounts of attention. Honestly, though, it doesn't have a chance in hell of passing.

Thee Forsaken One

Yes I agree it really is a gift. Though, some of them might be wary after devolution failed to stall the SNP machine and are defaulting to inaction/maintaining the status quo while they try to figure out what to do. It would be wise of Labour and the Lib Dems to get behind it before they get themselves completely wiped from Scotland, however (The Tory vote is relatively steady, though decreasing as they succumb to their age).
I think the Tories deep down would like to play politics and do this (Thus endearing themselves with the sections of the UK, especially England, that still believes Scotland are subsidised… at least in the short term.), but the Treasury are standing there and informing them just how disastrous it would be if they did that. Money comes first in the current political climate so they will not want to give up such an important stream of revenue for the rapidly shrinking Treasury.
In the long-term, it would also be a disaster as the other states of the UK start to see that the great lie of Scottish subsidy was indeed a lie and now Scotland is even more better off.

Morag

I think what they'd all like to do is appear to promise devo-max so as to head off a yes vote for independence, but then after that aim is achieved, not actually deliver it.

Morag

Having said that, if there is a formal amendment proposed to the Calman bill which would deliver devo-max, and that amendment is voted down by Westminster – what was that about gift horses?

DougtheDug

"The current bill does not go far enough in devolving fiscal responsibility to Scotland. I think that the time has now come when we must seriously consider a more radical change in funding devolved governments. It is described by some as full fiscal autonomy – I would describe it more appropriately as full fiscal responsibility, so that the responsibility for raising money as well as spending it goes to the Scottish and other governments."

The problem is that I can't find any more detail on what Foulkes is proposing. Is he proposing that all oil revenues go to Scotland with all the Whisky revenues and all the Crown Estate revenues quite apart from VAT, income tax, corporation tax and national insurance. Or is he proposing some crippled form of FFA where Scotland collects only a partial slice of the revenues raised in Scotland?
Full fiscal autonomy or full fiscal responsibility are lovely buzz words but the devil is always is in the detail and when it comes to taxation central government does not want to give up any powers. Sorting out FFA will be much more difficult than any independence negotiations.
Unless the detail of what Foulkes means by FFA is spelt  out in the Scotland Bill it would be just the same as the SNP putting FFA on the referendum ballot paper. Nobody would know quite what it meant and there would be no guarantee that the Westminster parliament would implement it when the final details are made plain.
In any case if the Tories, Labour and the Lib-Dems had actually wanted FFA for Scotland they'd have done it years ago. Foulkes is just stirring it for the media.

DougtheDug

I had a hunt in the Lord's Hansard but I couldn't find anything.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)

    Stats: 6,677 Posts, 1,204,895 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • sarah on The Wage Thief: “Why? Surely better to stand on the list?Dec 11, 20:27
    • gregor on The Wage Thief: “The Sheepdogs: The Sheepdogs: Feeling Good: “Are you close to mine Or could you blow my mind Cause the heat…Dec 11, 20:22
    • gregor on The Wage Thief: “Evil Conduct: King of Kings: Change the World: “You ain’t got no message You won’t change the world I don’t…Dec 11, 20:11
    • Hatey McHateface on The Wage Thief: “Deep fried in Fanny Batter. The order that’s set off many a post-closing-time chipper rammy in my neck of the…Dec 11, 19:51
    • Hatey McHateface on The Wage Thief: “On the plus side, sheep are feeling a lot less nervous.Dec 11, 19:46
    • Hatey McHateface on The Wage Thief: ““Readers here like what I write” Nah. 1 Upvote 2 Scroll on by 3 Log in with new ID 4…Dec 11, 19:42
    • Hatey McHateface on The Wage Thief: “He’d maybe have to do what it says in the Declaration Of Arbroath and completely destroy the Picts. That may…Dec 11, 19:33
    • Campbell Clansman on The Wage Thief: “The “Claim of Right,” promoted by morons like Alf and Sarah as part of a (non-existent) “Scottish Constitution,” IS “sectarian…Dec 11, 19:28
    • Zander Tait on The Wage Thief: “Ha ha. More lies from Grendel. 6 up votes in 26 minutes for me and numerous down votes for you…Dec 11, 19:23
    • Young Lochinvar on The Wage Thief: “Codename Beef Curtains..Dec 11, 19:20
    • Young Lochinvar on The Wage Thief: “Maybe she’ll team up with Jean Paul Gautier and release Eau de Colon..Dec 11, 19:06
    • Captain Caveman on The Wage Thief: ““Rammy in the chipper” …? I think not. These lot barely leave the safety of their mum’s spare bedroom lol,…Dec 11, 19:01
    • Campbell Clansman on The Wage Thief: “6 upvotes in 3 minutes! Very impressive! I guess we now know how many aliases “Zander” posts under. My fellow…Dec 11, 18:57
    • Captain Caveman on The Wage Thief: “Being told I’m “missing a few brain cells” by some fragile, witless moron who does know what paragraph breaks are…Dec 11, 18:56
    • Dan on The Wage Thief: “Still tying to punt that sectarian drivel. https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/08/31/in-response-to-roddy-dunlop-qc/Dec 11, 18:53
    • Mark Beggan on The Wage Thief: “For me The Cranky Show is a conspired and direct attack on our society. A threat to men, women, and…Dec 11, 18:53
    • Zander Tait on The Wage Thief: “No-one here is interested in anything you have to say on any topic now and forever, Grendel. Ha ha ha…Dec 11, 18:49
    • Campbell Clansman on The Wage Thief: “That would make him King Donald IV of Scotland. Of course, with anti-Catholic “Claim of Right” he’d have to swear…Dec 11, 18:42
    • Hatey McHateface on The Wage Thief: ““Donald King o Scots” Naw. King Donald of Orange has a better historical precedent. I think we can safely ignore…Dec 11, 18:20
    • Hatey McHateface on The Wage Thief: ““You’re being rather literal in this matter” Indeed I am. Take the “traditional” former European colonies – African shitholes -…Dec 11, 18:13
    • Michael Laing on The Wage Thief: “It’s all very weird, isn’t it? And still there are people zealously defending the SNP and calling the rest of…Dec 11, 18:04
    • Michael Laing on The Wage Thief: “Agreed. It’s certainly no’ a bonnie bairn.Dec 11, 17:58
    • Michael Laing on The Wage Thief: “And another downvote for…………….Chas. Well done!Dec 11, 17:55
    • Pipinghot on The Wage Thief: “Thinking the same thing. Her tattie face and the union jack. Shudders.Dec 11, 17:52
    • Hatey McHateface on The Wage Thief: ““She failed to deliver indy” “Scots won’t act” Well, now, that’s a more balanced summary of the situation. Neither Sturgeon…Dec 11, 17:51
    • Hatey McHateface on The Wage Thief: ““We’re all sick to the back teeth” Naw. For a start, I’m not 🙂 This knockabout Punch-and-Judy show doesn’t have…Dec 11, 17:47
    • Stevie on The Wage Thief: “I really mentally spew a pouring seething, bubbling, witch’s-brew cauldron of vomitting expletives and curses on this wicked btch of…Dec 11, 17:44
    • Stevie on The Wage Thief: “Every time I see a photo of She/her, I feel a disturbing mix of disgust, hatred and revulsion and wonder…Dec 11, 17:39
    • Tartan Tory on The Wage Thief: “PLEASE STU, post another story with utmost haste! I’m sick of looking at that soor face each time I land…Dec 11, 17:33
    • Chas on The Wage Thief: “Another link to mince written by………………….. Baird. Surprise surprise! Alfie boy loves himself.Dec 11, 17:16
  • A tall tale



↑ Top
149
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x