Daily Mail Fact Watch
The Mail is incredibly still banging away at its “evil cybernats” campaign today – we make that 19 days now – with another front page lead (this time, impressively somehow managing to turn SNP MSP Joan McAlpine being the victim of acts of online sabotage into an attack on the SNP) and another “Cybernat Watch” article inside.
One passage in an editorial, however, caught our eye. (Our emphasis.)
“It is not acceptable to make personal threats and insults under the guise of exercising the right to speak openly. It is an inescapable fact that while there are trolls on both sides, the so-called cybernats are more numerous, more vocal, more vituperative and act in consort.”
An “inescapable fact”? The Mail seems to have unaccountably failed to identify its material source. Who measured these things? Can we have a link to the study data? Is there an internationally-recognised scale of vituperativeness? Is there a shred of evidence to back up the assertion that these alleged abusers “act in consort”?
Because if the Daily Mail doesn’t come forward with the proof of these allegations, and instead just continues making insulting comments and doorstepping, frightening and vilifying innocent members of the public for posting perfectly legal comments on the internet under their own names, it’ll be hard for the people of Scotland to arrive at any other conclusion than that the paper’s reporters are a bunch of bare-faced liars as well as bullies trying to selectively intimidate and silence one side of the debate.
Hard to arrive at any other conclusion?
Surely you mean inescapable?
The difference, of course, is the Daily Mail are supplying plenty of evidence to support that statement. They are not supplying anything very substantial to support theirs.
OT both the Spectator and Telegraph commentating on the FM and Mr Carney meeting as though both Massie and Cochrane have a handle on economics and attitudes.
The Union..one thing that isn’t inescapable no matter how much they try and keep us in.
It’s easy for me to say, as I live on the other side of the planet, but I’d consider it an honour to be ‘shamed’ by the Mail. Well done and congratulations to those slandered by the Mail!
Vituperativeness. I don’t know what the SI unit is but I’m sure it goes up to 11.
Trying to decide which part of the Gandhi quote this is: are they trying to ridicule or are they fighting? Whatever it is we know the last part is we win.
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.
I am enjoying the tags at the bottom of this post. Handy hint: you can consolidate both those tags into one, easy-to-manage tag: “Daily Mail”.
“The difference, of course, is the Daily Mail are supplying plenty of evidence to support that statement. They are not supplying anything very substantial to support theirs.”
I am confused by your comment. Please clarify.
“this time, impressively somehow managing to turn SNP MSP Joan McAlpine being the victim of acts of online sabotage into an attack on the SNP”
Aye, BBC “Scotland” did the same thing this morning.
They’re right about one thing. By their definition of cybernat (anyone who posts pro-independence opinions on the internet), we’re sure as hell more numerous!
Wait now, I’ll get out my dictionary.
Vituperativeness: vituperate, vituperative, vituperation… 😀
Some interesting definitions of the phrase “Daily Mail” in the urban dictionary. It can even be used adjectivally which I didn’t know –
link to urbandictionary.com
The international SI unit of vituperativeness is actually “the Daily Mail”, often shortened to DM. So “as vituperative as 1000 Daily Mails” would be Kilo-DM. JoLa at FMQs has sometimes managed to score as highly as a Giga-DM. By contrast a fluffy kitten on the internet is a pico-DM.
This campaign will probably lead to the DM demanding government (that’s a compliant Westminster) to have filthy ‘cybernat websites’ closed down.
Got it! Revile/abuse. 🙂
The Mail are going to keep chopping away at this until somebody loses it publicly or they run into the next big story which bumps it off the front pages and into the chat sections.
The most telling thing of the whole episode is Labour working hand in glove with the most right wing and reactionary title in the UK.
Who’d a thunk it?
Good article here
link to fifenewsonline.co.uk
I’ve just tweeted a link to this scurrilous article. Am I acting “in consort”?
It has all gone terribly wrong for the Daily Mail. This latest witch hunt has back fired badly.
I agree the journalists involved are liars.
@ Macart;
“Who’d a thunk it?”
They’ve got form. Any port in a storm.
Apparently we “act in consort”?
It would appear that we appear to be better together…
David McCann; aye, sorry, me too. Some days I just wake up confused and it doesn’t seem to get better all day. It looks clear as mud to me now as well.
I know what I meant, but that’s not quite how it looks on reading it again. To clarify; there’s plenty of evidence to show the Mail making pathetic attacks on us. What the Mail doesn’t give is any evidence that there’s any justification for any of them. I hope that makes sense… I’m still not convinced it does.
Be assured, though, I didn’t mean that independence supporters deserve the Daily Mail’s attention in any way. We have a few hotheads dotting around but the majority of voices try to quieten those ones down and the examples the Mail gives, well, they’re a bit limp.
The Daily Mail, on the other hand, deserves every bit of scorn it receives.
Been said before I know,but Mr MacIntyre-Kemp always talks sense,no party baggage,straight talking.
The LabServative Dems have been seething with rage, they dont have an army of passionate supporters to fight for their union, its a war on the ordinary Scottish person using media bullying.
So BritNats are “trolls” and ScotNats are “Cybernats”. How does that work?
Fact is, the term “Cybernat” describes any nationalist (Scottish or British) who uses the internet to engage in the independence debate. ‘Trolls’ can apply to both BritNats and ScotNats and, well, anyone who is just a persistent, nasty piece of work on the net.
The use of “Cybernat” is a pejorative term as it invokes images of dastardly Cybermen (and Cyborgs), the most persistent enemy of Dr Who. “You have been assimilated. Assimilation complete.”
The DM know what they’re doing. They just don’t realise the Scottish electorate are a lot more savvy than they give us credit for, that we think for ourselves and will never be assimilated like the sheeple they normally preach to.
In short, ‘Cybernat’ is equally applicable to Britnat and Scotnat but the DM uses it only to vilify one side of the debate, the Scotnats.
Sigh…
Try this quiz to see how much the Daily Mail hates you;
link to games.usvsth3m.com
Thanks Gillie, I’m proud to say I’m ‘hated’ – I wonder if I can get a badge / t-shirt.
and there is this;
link to thedailymash.co.uk
Hi!
Off Topic but I could do with some help. This link is an article in the Swedish language newspaper here in Finland about the SNP apparently saying that they want to join the Nordic community.
link to hbl.fi
You will have to google translate it. I was hoping to reply but don’t really know where to begin.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated!
“Can we have a link to the study data?”
Well Dr Mark Shephard of Strathclyde University hosted a discussion in the House of Commons – Discourse on Scottish Independence – Politicians versus Publics. Dr Shephard is in early stages of investigating social media comments on the Scottish independence debate to explore the nature of posts and their possible effects on behaviour.
The findings, based on analysis of online comments under articles on independence, show the vast majority of posts are anti-SNP/independence and anti-Salmond rather than anti-English/anti-union.
In terms of language, too, comments about the SNP and independence are much more vitriolic than about the union and UK.
Oops that doesn’t seem to fit the Mail’s narrative.
I will not be silenced.
dmw42, “Thanks Gillie, I’m proud to say I’m ‘hated’ – I wonder if I can get a badge / t-shirt.”
I am loathed by the Daily Mail.
Printed T-shirts are a great idea.
I’m sure there was a study that showed the majority of the abuse was actually on the unionist side of things, but I can’t find a link on Google. Does anyone remember? It was last year sometime I think.
‘…impressively somehow managing to turn SNP MSP Joan McAlpine being the victim of acts of online sabotage into an attack on the SNP’
– This is the old “Invade Poland” gambit used by the DM’s beloved dead Fuhrer. Impressively, the Fuhrer managed to turn his own real threats and attacks against Poland into (non-existent) Polish threats and attacks against him.
O/T Carney has spoken with Salmondo, talks went ‘very well’ according to Salmond.
Carney is going to speak about it later.
The inimitable Jenny Hjul has an article in today’s Courier titled “How can they claim to love their country when they hate their fellow Scots?”. Selected bits follow.
“For almost anyone involved in Scottish politics, online abuse by anonymous Nationalist activists is par for the course. Politicians and commentators and those from other walks of life who stray into the debate, have long grown accustomed to the venom emanating from a MENACING CABAL collectively known as the ‘cybernats’.”
“[Salmond] cited threats, deplorable of course, against his deputy, Nicola Sturgeon, to highlight the existence of internet trolls on both sides of the debate. But while there are almost certainly cranks in every camp, it is widely acknowledged that the cybernats are the chief culprits in social media’s sinister underbelly.”
“Mr Salmond may not be responsible for his more toxic troops and he surely would not welcome their contribution – they must alienate any potential supporters of his cause, bar the lunatic fringe.
But he cannot distance himself altogether from their antics because he and his colleagues have encouraged belligerence by the tone of their arguments. One of his own aides, Joan McAlpine, described Labour and Liberal Democrat MSPs as anti-Scottish for opposing the break-up of Britain, and Mike Russell, the Education Minister, called opponents of government policy at Holyrood anti-Scottish.”
“Meanwhile, Mr Salmond dismissed a senior BBC adviser as a “gauleiter”, the name for a regional Nazi party leader, when he dropped him from a rugby broadcast.”
Despicable language. Salmond should be ashamed of himself.
“Although I have accepted the dinner invite, I am somewhat constrained in accepting the one to the pre-prandial cocktails. The reason is that the Scottish Parliamentary Journalists’ Association, of which I have the honour to be a member, is boycotting the said watering hole. We have taken this principled – if unusual – stance because we have been offered only limited rights of access by that Gauleiter of Holyrood’s catering facilities, Labour MSP Duncan McNeil.” – Alan Cochrane (Mr Jenny Hjul), Scotland On Sunday, 22 January 2006
OUTRAGEOUS! Divorce is the only possible solution.
its a war on the ordinary Scottish person using media bullying.
Better Together made a bad mistake right at the start trying to use negative campaigning tactics straight out of the the US Republican playbook.
In a big country like the UK, where you rely on getting 51% of the vote demonising your opponents may have some traction. You just have to take some swing states and it doesn’t matter a jot if you piss off states that are firmly in the other camp.
But Better together are running a campaign based in London comprising Westminster politicians and a predominantly London based media, and the only people who have a vote at the end are in Scotland. And their campaign involves being entirely negative about Scotland and it’s people, while demonising a third or them, and telling another third to piss off and stop talking about more powers because this is all you’re getting.
Seems an odd choice of tactic.
The Daily Fail is a bell weather. If they think it is a good idea one can be almost certain it is not. Being hated by the Mail almost gives me a warm fizzy glow. Murphy, Dugdale and co should be worried.
The free publicity to nationalist sites is just a bonus because people will come to look and they will see that we are actually human and not nearly as scary as the Mail would have it.
Mr Nauchty on Radio 4 this morning did exactly what the UWS study suggested. Better Together is multiparty, Yes is basically thr SNP.
OT If you want a laugh check out BT station leafleting campaign. When i checked there was one volunteer including me. And I’m not.
@Doug Daniel
link to strath.ac.uk
Social Media and the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum: The Twitter dimension (AQMeN Sm Grants)
Tagg, Stephen (Co-investigator) Shephard, Mark Peter (Principal Investigator)
Period 01-Aug-2013 – 31-Jan-2014
So it appears that we have two academic studies, by Dr John Robertson and Dr mark Shephard that conclusively prove that the broadcast media is biased against independence, and that the majority of online abuse comes from anti-independence supporters with many expressing anti-Scottish sentiments.
Now those are inescapable facts.
Jenny Hjul writing in the Dundee edition of the Courier today got stuck into the
“venom emanating from a menacing cabal collectively known as the “cybernats.””
She said that
“… the abuse has reached such levels that it has become a matter for the police, the Crown office, and now, belatedly, for the Nationalist leader.”
And,
“But while there are almost certainly cranks in every camp, it is widely acknowledged that the cybernats are the chief culprits in social media’s sinister underbelly.”
She also managed to mention Kezia Dugdale’s bayonetting threat, and of course Susan Calman’s death threats, and that Alex Salmond
“cannot distance himself from their antics because he and his colleagues have encouraged belligerence by the tone of their arguments.”
Have to say noticed on the Guardian yesterday someone accusing the ahem, cybernats of sitting there just waiting to comment on an article. One lady said she was the first to comment and that was ten minutes after it was posted, the rest of us must have missed Alex phone call cause I was a whole day behind and several more were as late.
As I see it the BT campaign are desperate and all we have to do is keep it up.
Thanks for the link Gillie, I can now say with 100% conviction that I am most definitely hated by the Daily Mail. Yee Ha! 🙂
Fact is, the term “Cybernat” describes any nationalist (Scottish or British) who uses the internet to engage in the independence debate. ‘Trolls’ can apply to both BritNats and ScotNats and, well, anyone who is just a persistent, nasty piece of work on the net.
Whilst you are correct creigs I think you are also wrong. (does that make sense?:)) What I mean is that in the beginning that statement would have been correct but not now. Thanks to the Daily Mail and the Better Together mob the term cybernat is most definitely used purely to describe us freedom fighters on the side of righteousness, a.k.a. YES supporters. 🙂
It doesn’t stop at cybernat either, remember that the very nice Ruth Davidson recently called us all cabernats apparently. So now we have a choice. Do we we call ourselves cybernats or cabernats? Will Ruth Davidson allow us to call ourselves cabernats or has she claimed this term for her use only?
@G.Campbell
You beat me to it!
Mrs Alan Cochrane talks about cranks who have encouraged belligerence by[sic] the tone of their arguments.
No point in asking her to cast out the caber out of her own eye before concerning herself with the mote in her brother’s eye.
The only people who read this propaganda are ones who want to believe it. “None are so blind as those who do not want to see.” Any normal person very quickly realises what’s going on here and rejects the lies being peddled for whatever reason unless it suites them.
My father told me ” The problem with liars is half the lies they tell ar’nt true”
The study here by “Dr Mark Shephard of Strathclyde University at the House of Commons – Discourse on Scottish Independence – Politicians versus Publics “Published 8th May 2012. showed that:- “the majority of posts (on Inet) are anti-SNP/Independence and anti-Salmond rather than anti-English/anti-union. In terms of language, too, comments about the SNP and independence are much more vitriolic than about the union and UK”
I wonder if they have updated this study?
See also an excellent article in, link to fifenewsonline.co.uk
Sounds like the unionist media are frantically trying throw as much mud as possible, but in reality as Kezia Dugdale found to her cost who wants to be on the side of the Daily Mail and the likes of Mrs Cockers (aka Jenny Hjul).
Importantly we know they have only mud but we have the science and the data.
Dr John Roberston, UWOS, “on the objective evidence presented here, the mainstream TV coverage of the first year of the independence referendum campaigns has not been fair or balanced. Taken together, we have evidence of coverage which seems likely to have damaged the Yes campaign.”
Dr Mark Shephard, ESRC, “The findings, based on analysis of online comments under articles on independence, show the vast majority of posts are anti-SNP/independence and anti-Salmond rather than anti-English/anti-union.”
“Dr Mark Shephard, ESRC, “The findings, based on analysis of online comments under articles on independence, show the vast majority of posts are anti-SNP/independence and anti-Salmond rather than anti-English/anti-union.””
Interestingly, I spoke to Dr Shephard some time ago about this, and the final findings of his study are due out at the end of next month.
The Cybernots are well capable of vituperativeness themselves. Have a look at the offensive and highly racist bile that the Spectator thinks is fine. The significance in this is not the number of people who are spouting this bile but in those who are willilng to vote up the posts.
link to blogs.spectator.co.uk
Shouldn’t your headline read “Daily Mail “Fact” Watch”?
Mr Salmond’s first comment after meeting on shared currency.
‘technocratic’ opinion enters the debate. Ooooh!
link to bbc.co.uk
A Wings t-shirt along these lines would be a hoot.
I’M THE CYBERNAT THE DAILY MAIL WARNED YOU ABOUT.
link to redmolotov.com
Sorry, in my last post I was referring to the comments on the Spectator article.
Reference Mrs Jenny Cochrane, when I read “it is widely accepted” in an article as support for the case being put forward I tend to lose interest.
“Interestingly, I spoke to Dr Shephard some time ago about this, and the final findings of his study are due out at the end of next month.”
Excellent. That will be very interesting.
Bryan Weir
I read the Spectator on line when articles are about Scotland. And in my view anti-Scots, anti-AS and anti-Indy comments are well in the ascendant. Yes there are nasty comments from both sides but it always seems to me they come first from the anti-Indy/Scots people. And there are many pro-Indy contributors who post very well informed comments as opposed to the rubbish usually produced by the anti-people.
I hope they do try and prosecute us for freedom of speech.
I also hope one day we can prosecute them for the murders of Willie MacRae and Andy MacIntosh
Philip @ 10.56am
re the Huvudstadsbladet article (the Swedish language newspaper here in Finland you mentioned), love to help but I can’t get at the article, needs registration. 🙁
“And in my view anti-Scots, anti-AS and anti-Indy comments are well in the ascendant.”
They are. And the amusing thing is all the anti-Jock bile applies equally as much to people on the no side as it does to us. It refers to Keiza, Darling, Murphy, Brown et al – they don’t escape being seen as whinging subsidy junkie jocks by these people just because they want to stay in the union. If anything they’re even more the subject of it for precisely that reason.
I wonder if Kieza will write a moaning article for the Daily Mail about how upset all that abuse makes her, as a Scottish person?
btw, does anyone know how this new gagging law will affect the independence campaign? Are they likely to try and use it in the next 8 months, alongside the “cybernats” narrative to prevent free speech or will it not be properly through in that time?
I don’t believe there will ever be sufficient evidence to prove whether or not Wille MacRae was murdered. Who’s Andy MacIntosh?
Maybe not so O/T, New Zealand are thinking of ditching the Union Flag from their own flag and changing it to a silver fern on black background.
link to news.sky.com
Wonder what Westminster’s thoughts are on that?
Further, @ Philip, 10.56am
I haven’t seen the HBL article you refer to but I’d take anything in the Finnish press with a tiny pinch of salt.
They get most of their Great Britain stories from the GB mainstream media and the BBC. Few have the resources to have a genuine British correspondent, and if they do, he/she lives in London and rarely if ever ventures as far north as Scotland.
Gone are the days when Helsingin Sanomat (biggest broadsheet) did a balanced, analytical double page spread on Scottish independence… back in 1992!
I still have the clippings somewhere, with pictures of Alex Salmond and youth wing activists Stewart Hosie and Shona Robinson! 🙂
Who says the Daily Mail is not a well balanced newspaper of the highest order? 🙂
link to dailymail.co.uk
The Better Together mob are obviously rattled. They surely thought that beligerence, bullying and lies would have cowed the Scottish people into submission by this time some eight months out from the referendum.
Wrong! They picked the wrong country and the wrong people to try that shit on. This is Scotland and its people we’re talking about – they are not going to go down on bended knee to anyone, let alone that bunch of despicables.
So, what do they do? They get the toxic, fascist, slimeball masquerading as a ‘newspaper’, the Daily Mail, to try to shoot the messenger. They make up lies and misinform their readership that “cybernats” – the ones online who are disseminating the ‘real’ truth about Scotland and its independence while eviscerating and exposing the lies, misinformation, smears, sneers and fears of the Better Together MSM propaganda machine – are evil, co-ordinated zombies, who are but just a sample of what those who will inhabit an independent Scotland will be like.
This pernicious, and dangerous, behaviour is a sign that Better Together is now like a deranged, wounded beast backed into a corner as a result of their own malicious deeds and lashing out in its desperation. Desperate people do desperate things after all.
May an independent Scotland be free of this type of malevolent, poisonous influence on its society and sense, fairness and intelligence take over in the Scottish print media until such time as print media itself reaches its ultimate and inevitable demise.
@lumilumi
Thanks but you are right. I just tried to have a look at it again and I was met with a paywall. The papers are tightfisted over here!
I can try and copy and paste some of the (google) translated text:
Before the referendum in autumn for Scotland sovereignists now the Nordic countries as an attractive future partner. Interesting thought but I relate restrained, says parliamentarian and nordisten Kimmo Sasi (National Coalition).
The Scots vote on independence on 18 September and before the vote is particularly Scotland’s largest party, the National Party SNP, who agitated for the independent Scotland after it should apply for the Nordic community. Party leader Alex Salmond has also devoted considerable energy to creating contacts with Nordic colleagues, as he believes that the Scots have much more in common than with the British.
The MP Kimmo Sasi (National Coalition), which, among its long nordic track record including the President of the Nordic Council in 2012, understands the Scottish envisioned.
– The Scots have always had a fondness for the Nordic countries, which date back to the Vikings. There is a history of contacts between Scandinavia and Scotland so there is no unnatural thought to think. Moreover, the 5.2 million Scots in size quite similar to the five Nordic countries. It’s an interesting idea, in theory.
In practice, it would however be difficult for an English-speaking country would apply for membership in the Nordic family. In addition to the five countries’ strong history, dating back to the Kalmar Union in 1397, for Sasi presented two problems:
– Scandinavian is ledspråket within the Council of Ministers. Would the Scots come with it would mean that everyone has to switch to English, and it is of some importance since a language shift would reduce the Nordic nature. The second is that if Scotland becomes independent and seeking membership in the Council of Ministers as would any well be irritating to the UK. The separation would be a delicate thing, and it would require much diplomacy in order not to offend the British.
Scotland forward of the Baltics
Sasi also brings forward the traditions of Scandinavia which was one reason why he himself back in the day behaved restrictive to the proposal that the Baltic countries are included in the Nordic femklövern. This discussion has been put on ice and the countries have other forums for cooperation, but that the three new states were included in the Council of Ministers.
– At the time, the level of development to another in the Baltics and also then became the language issue to date. Scotland is traditionally closer to Scandinavia than the Baltic countries, but … I’d probably be cautious about the idea that Scotland becomes a part of Nordic countries. The benefit from our perspective is hard to find.
No, says Finland Scotsman
It is not only at the official level in the Council of Ministers as thoughts on expanding the Nordic family with an independent Scotland is met with a polite no.
Hamish McGrady , a Scot living in Finland, professes love for Scandinavia but do not look to Scotland fits into the family.
– Scotland has no cultural ties with the Nordic countries and the entire social structure is different. Moreover, we have the language issue. Most people in the Nordic countries speak English but Scots are not particularly knowledgeable in the Scandinavian languages. The idea to include Scotland in the Nordic countries is not relevant.
In Scotland, polls show that something between 30 and 40 per cent of Scots at present is for a divorce from the UK. McGrady does not belong to that group. Although Edinburgh periodically gnabbats with London, he reminds us that Scotland’s level of development would not be as it is without the assistance of London.
– Scotland could not function as an economically independent state. The Scots tend to vote with their heart and not with the head, and it may be that many feel that an independent Scotland is a fine idea. I hope they take the time to actually think with your head before the referendum takes place.
Wouldn’t it be great if we had a list of the offensive publications and we all sent “I want a free Scotland and I will not be silenced” to each and every one!
it’s OFFICIAL folks I’m an abusive cybernat!
L over on Twitter tweeted this this afternoon:
Less than 8mths until #indyref and Salmond can’t even tell us what the currency will be. Forward planning and all that, eh? #Shambles
I, trying to be ever helpful, as I do, tweeted this in response:
what part of “it will be the pound” don’t you get? he’s been saying this since day1!
L has replied thus:
So, another abusive #cybernat because I don’t agree with independence? Not exactly pleasant.
Needless to say I couldn’t resist replying to this individual thus:
WOW! got to admire YOUR definition of abuse! I disagree with YOU and I am abusive! #cybernat
So, another abusive #cybernat because I don’t agree with independence? Not exactly pleasant.
Stand aside everyone! I’m a scientist.
The SI unit for vituperativeness is the ‘hitchens’. It’s defined as bitterness per column-inch.
Wings Over Scotland reads just above background level at a few millihitchens. The Times and the Guardian average several kilohitchens.
To get an accurate measurement of the Daily Mail I needed to recalibrate my hitchensometer to a much higher range. The final result was several thousand megahitchens.
At that level of exposure it’s recommended to wear a lead-lined suit just to read the front page.
Red molotov t shirt co is selling tees ” I ‘m the one the Daily Mail warned you about ” .
Eric Joyce blogged back in May 2013 pretty much predicting what’s happening now re the vilification of yes online
Why does anybody ever believe anything written in the ‘Daily Snail’? An extreme right wing slimy ‘Dead Head’ that once supported the Nazi Party and sails closer to the wind than the highest tuned racing yacht. Like all Nationalists I encourage true debate but sometimes it becomes impossible to counter with the TRUTH. Let the ‘Snail’ tell us why they are so keen to hang on to us? Could it be the fact that Westminster last year released 2,500+ oil/gas exploration blocks from Rockall to the Scottish Faroese boundary and includes the ‘Lewis’ Basin possibly one of the largest oil/gas basins in the world though due to geology it will be awkward but not impossible with modern technology. Aye it is McCrone all over again, keep it from them until it is too late. Let’s make sure that it does not happen again for personally I’m fed-up funding infra-structure projects in London and the S. East while we suffer diesel trains and two lane motorways etc.
[…] Scottish sovereignty over continued union with England, still a minority but a significant one. The panicky reaction since then from the more committed members of the Pax Britannia (or more accurately, Anglia) has been more than a little bit excessive. From the Scottish […]
Couldn’t see any comment on your headline. The words Daily Mail and Fact should never be seen in the same story never mind sentence. I try to read the dailymail online ( English edition) everyone should try it, our friends in England are getting mistruths thrown at them so often they think what they are getting told is the truth. I think the Scottish edition should be shelved and then we could see the vitriol that passes for comment that flows from that rag.