The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Collecting the clues

Posted on December 18, 2013 by

Rhodri Morgan, Labour former First Minister of Wales, 12 December 2013:

“No reform to the Barnett Formula until after the Scottish referendum.”

Alistair Carmichael, Lib Dem Secretary of State for Portsmouth, 17 December 2013:

This government is not going to touch the Barnett Formula.”

Our emphasis both times. It’s not too tricky to read between the lines, is it?

36 to “Collecting the clues”

  1. Pedro says:

    It’s Yes or bust. That much is clear. 

    Reply
  2. Adrian B says:

    No need to read ‘BETWEEN THE LINES”. Its right there in black and white. Just wait until after the next Westminster General Election is what they are all saying. That includes the Scottish opposition parties on the no side – that are all extremely clear.
     
    They ALL blame the SNP for this referendum happening. Holyrood is going to be strangled and that will lead to detrimental democracy and all Government spending ability on core services for everybody in Scotland. 

    Reply
  3. gordoz says:

    Sadly it still appears to be too tricky  to read between the lines for the undecided, who seem to need yet more information (only from YES side though ?) if the press & polls are to be believed.

    What will happen to Barnett Formula ? Doh !
     
    Yes option – Barnett will eventually go obviously but Scotland emerges with control over economic direction and the mechanisms for affecting such change in the hands of the Scottish People through a supportive government which the residents of Scotland elect.

    No option – Barnett will go even faster because the Scottish people voted to be reformed into a ‘northern region’ of Great Britain which permits this too happen by diktat and to draw resources further south by a government which the Scottish people rarely if ever elect; either of the 2 main centre right parties of Labour  or Conservative (Both Unionist in doctrine  / 2 sides of same coin )

    Reply
  4. DougtheDug says:

    In David Cameron’s letter to Nicola Sturgeon he says, “What I can say is that reform of the Barnett Formula is not on the horizon”.
    link to twitter.com
     
    I suspect that “horizon” is 18/9/2014.
     
    Even more interestingly he says that he can, “No more bind future UK Governments than you can Scottish Governments”, which makes all the demands for definite answers from his campaign manager Mr. A. Darling about what happens after independence a little hollow.

    Reply
  5. Tom Hogg says:

    Tomorrow’s Scottish media headlines:- “Carmichael guarantees future of Barnett”

    Reply
  6. creigs1707repeal says:

    There was a referendum yesterday in a turkey farm close to where I live. The question on the ballot paper read as follows:
     
    Turkey, should we be free of Christmas?
     
    YES
    NO
     
    The result has not yet been announced but exit polls counted about 44% of the turkeys were wearing Santa hats. The other turkeys just shook their heads knowingly.

    Reply
  7. MochaChoca says:

    Vote NO and lose £4bn barnett and get 8.4% of £4-10bn North Sea revenues.
     
    Vote YES and lose £4bn barnett and get 100% of £4-10bn North Sea revenues.
     
    Could it be any clearer?
     
    BTW the figure accounted to Scotland by UK government departments, where the remit of that department has already been devolved and so is paid for via the block grant adds up to £1.6bn, strange huh?

    Reply
  8. Andy-B says:

    Armageddon, is the word, to describe the Scottish budget and its Parliament if a no vote is returned on the 19th of Sept next year, but lets not go there, lets be positive and look to a brighter future that a YES vote will bring.
     
    Lets kiss goodbye to the Barnett Formula for all the right reasons, that a YES vote will bring, afterall one way or another the Barnett Formula looks likely to be at best reduced.

    Reply
  9. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Hello there Left hand, I’ve a friend I’d like you to meet.
    Ah there he is.
    Right hand let me introduce you to Left Hand.
    Left hand…….this is Right hand……..Right hand……….this Left hand……… 😆

    Reply
  10. Inbhir Anainn says:

    The Barnett formula is said to have “no legal standing or democratic justification”, and, being merely a convention, could be changed by the Treasury at will. In recent years, Barnett has called for a review of its long-term viability.

    Reply
  11. Andrew Morton says:

    One problem with getting this over to the public is that I suspect that if you asked the typical person in the street what the Barnett Formula is, most of them would think it’s a baldness cure. This is probably most true of women who take less of an interest in the nuts and bolts of politics than men. This is tricky as it’s women we need to convert.
     
    We need to talk about Westminster cutting the budget or cutting Scotland’s pocket money.

    Reply
  12. Les Wilson says:

    Ref Holyrood after a no vote. The Barnett formula WILL go, as the Welsh First Minister said ” Oh, that is going anyway “.

    Gradually powers to Holrood will slowly be taken away until we actually have virtually nothing but an Echo Chamber for grievances no one will bother to care about.

    Eventually Holyrood will be closed as being of no use to anyone. This will all be designed to try and ensure there is never another referendum. Job done, as far as Westminster is concerned.

    We can complain, we can make noises but Westminster will not hear.

    If we vote no, I am convinced all this will come to pass, we cannot afford a NO vote, or mass emigration is once more on the agenda for many more Scots, as has been our history under the Union.

    Reply
    • Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Ref Holyrood after a no vote.”

      Les, I’m begging you. TWO carriage returns at the end of a paragraph, not one. Please.

      Reply
  13. TJenny says:

    Andrew Morton – or how about ‘Westminster cutting Scotland’s Housekeeping Budget’?

    Reply
  14. Richard says:

    O/T I was thinking about 12 days of Xmas.
    1bedroom tax, 
    2food banks
    3weeks brew suspension
    4 trident subs
    5 scare stories
    6
    7
    8
    9
    10 labour mps
    11lords a filcjing
    12
    i was hoping for inspiration

    Reply
  15. alexicon says:

    Labour will blame the Tories when the Barnett formula goes, guaranteed.

    Reply
  16. Illy says:

    I just hope that whatever the vote then it’s cleaner than clean regarding vote-rigging, etc… from the winning side.
     
    I’m not expecting that to be the case from Westminster though.
     
    But can you imagine the scandel if the result gets reporte no, then a month or so later it’s revealed that it was actually a yes?  If that happens I’m worried that we’d lose the “most peaceful independence movement” award.
     
    What would be nice is if both sides agreed publically that whoever loses the vote is going to want an investigation for any misconduct, so they’re both going to start the investigation in say, March 2014, so it’s resolved as quickly as possible.

    Reply
  17. MochaChoca says:

    9….. months to go?

    Reply
  18. Richard says:

    9 months to go doesn’t fit with project fear. I was hoping to tweet to them my Xmas love

    Reply
  19. aldo_macb says:

    6 foreign wars  (that’s how many Blair undertook).

    Reply
  20. desimond says:

    Richard

    3 Ian Davidson Westminster committees
    4 flipped Darling houses (might be wrong?)

    5  hundred thousand in the dodgiest of donations to UKOK

    Reply
  21. Richard says:

    Thanks aldo_macb.
    feel free to amend any of the other. Maybe there have been 12 scare stories (at least)

    Reply
  22. desimond says:

    On Celtic thread last night there was a nice wee #Sevku posting series where Haikus for Rangers AGM were posted… Might be fun if we tried for some regards Independence Referendum and all it involves

    Big Blair hear him roar!
    No Lion, more a sad Sheep
      RIP Dolly

    #Revku

    Reply
  23. john king says:

    “Your request for guarantees in perpetuity is quite astonishing”
    so says Cameron to Sturgeon,
    but has no qualms about making making similar demands of Sturgeon,
    or at least using his puppet Darling to say it while Dave the ventriloquist drinks a glass of water. 
    a gottle of geer

    Reply
  24. desimond says:

    Barnett now in sights
      Falls away like Sarwar lies
        Vote No, see tears flow

    #Revku

    Reply
  25. Richard says:

    O/T I was thinking about 12 days of Xmas.
    1bedroom tax, 
    2food banks
    3 Ian bayonet Davidson committees
    4 darling flipped houses
    5 500k dodgy donations
    6 Blair wars
    7
    8
    9
    10 labour MPS missing vote
    11lords a filching
    12scare stories
    was hoping for inspiration

    Reply
  26. desimond says:

    Richard

    8-hundred and 35 BAEjob losses

    9-million INEOS Holyrood business grant

    Reply
  27. Bertie K says:

    12 Tories milking

    Reply
  28. Richard says:

    I need a 7 .
    I have kept the 11lords a leaching and the 12 scare stories

    Reply
  29. Bertie K says:

    7 black gold barrels?

    Reply
  30. Alastair wright says:

    7 billion black hole if we say no

    Reply
  31. handclapping says:

    7 Carroll in the Guardian

    Reply
  32. handclapping says:

    So Barnett goes; does the SNP have to stand there and take it? The Scots have had their referendum as promised. They have rejected in the referendum the whole point of the SNP. The First Minister can step down and the by law the whole SNP government goes. JoLa becomes First Minister?
     
    In normal politics you can dismiss the thought of a party giving up power (we are looking at you Jim Wallace / Nick Clegg) but the SNP are not a normal political party. They even had a debate on NATO. How many other major parties even had a debate on the Union before deciding they were agin?
     
    I dont think people have really thought through what a NO vote might do.

    Reply
  33. Bertie K says:

    On the twelfth day o Christmas
    My neighbour sent tae me
    Twelve year o cut-backs
    Eleven mair new taxes
    Ten lords a-sneaking
    Nein as in NO vote!
    Ate all ma dreams
    Seven shades o grey
    Six tae ma stummach
    Five empty barrels
    More calling names
    Three mouldy crumbs
    Twa Tory stoogies
    And a fat Scottish Sec-a-ta-ree

    Reply
  34. Richard says:

    Like it Bertie k

    Reply
  35. Bertie K says:

    @Richard
    Thanks for the inspiration 😀

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a thing that exists.

    Stats: 6,900 Posts, 1,240,775 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • Alf Baird on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Correct Northcode, every one Tommy, Craig and Eva seeking oor leeberation is easily worth a dozen or mair daeless SNP…May 5, 12:14
    • Sven on Binfire Of The Vanities: “North ode @ 11.39. “Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD…May 5, 12:09
    • Captain Caveman on Binfire Of The Vanities: “😀 “W.w..why I’m SO ANGRY, I could THROW THE PHONE DOWN!!!!!!1111!!!”May 5, 12:08
    • Young Lochinvar on Binfire Of The Vanities: “HMcH @ 7.41 No it’s called a point of view. Talking of solemn vows, did you write that post cock’n…May 5, 12:05
    • Hatey McHateface on Binfire Of The Vanities: “I too await with interest Northy’s spoof on the Koran. I always immensely enjoy the bravery and daring of those…May 5, 12:04
    • Cynicus on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Young Lochinvar says: 5 May, 2026 at 1:19 am “C @ 12.29 Not voting SNP? Fine. Tactically voting for Unionists?…May 5, 12:04
    • Hatey McHateface on Binfire Of The Vanities: ““Actually, we do care” The royal “we” again, or is Geri self-identifying as the Scottish electorate now? Cos if it’s…May 5, 11:57
    • Young Lochinvar on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Fat Slag Wilma Flintstone @ 9.52 Hit a raw nerve did I there thunderthighs? Anyway, get off this site and…May 5, 11:51
    • Geri on Binfire Of The Vanities: ““Breaking point reached?” No. Because you are a fool if you think Reform will fix immigration or gender woo for…May 5, 11:49
    • Hatey McHateface on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Elkins, eh, Alf? Another name to conjure with. No doubt already familiar to thon loon who churns out the LOTR…May 5, 11:40
    • Northcode on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Fuck off, Sven you’re a Scotti prick and joyless cunt. I’m a Christian and Scotland is a Christian country what…May 5, 11:39
    • Sven on Binfire Of The Vanities: “James Che @ 10.19. Although not, perhaps, quite so amusing to a Christian, James. I await with interest Northy’s spoof…May 5, 11:13
    • Northcode on Binfire Of The Vanities: “The election on Thursday is a pantomime in which I don’t usually participate having accepted a long time ago that…May 5, 11:12
    • Geri on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Actually, we do care. SNP may find themselves out of office because of it. They’ve spent the last five years…May 5, 11:11
    • Alf Baird on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Yes, at least two of our brave liberators standing for the Alliance to Liberate Scotland Party have been persecuted and…May 5, 11:11
    • James Che on Binfire Of The Vanities: “North code. Fun to read.May 5, 10:19
    • James Che on Binfire Of The Vanities: “The Anglo – Irish parliaments ( westminster ) legislation for a pretend devolved Scottish parliament for the first time in…May 5, 10:10
    • Hatey McHateface on Binfire Of The Vanities: ““I had a dream last night” We can but idly speculate on just how much better your post could have…May 5, 10:04
    • Captain Caveman on Binfire Of The Vanities: “@BroughtyBoy Don’t worry about YL, he’s just having one of his daily (nightly) meltdowns at the prospect of someone disagreeing…May 5, 09:52
    • Northcode on Binfire Of The Vanities: “I had a dream last night. And in my dream God came to me and without sound said unto me…May 5, 09:46
    • Captain Caveman on Binfire Of The Vanities: “I agree Stu, you’re right, they are. (Nothing “notional” left about the SNP in my view though, as evidenced through…May 5, 09:45
    • Andy Wiltshire on Binfire Of The Vanities: “How much of a thing will tactical voting be? In particular anti-Reform, anti-SNP, and maybe anti-Green.May 5, 09:29
    • James Che on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Party before Country and people has to be made void, And the vote sharing system has to end, because this…May 5, 09:21
    • Scot Finlayson on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Sweden has just approved that to obtain citizenship, the following must be required: – 8 years of residence – Stable…May 5, 09:12
    • James Che on Binfire Of The Vanities: “The problem between voting for Colonial parties and colonial parties including the SNP, is that Scotland will continue to be…May 5, 08:38
    • Hatey McHateface on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Of course, Confused, it’s always possible that while you are sitting up late on what to many Scots is a…May 5, 08:13
    • Hatey McHateface on Seven Days Too Long: ““Get yersel prepared for separation cause it’s coming right at yea” Thursday, Geri, is that when? Should I say “bye…May 5, 08:02
    • Hatey McHateface on Binfire Of The Vanities: “@Alf Are you telling us that with under a week to go to the election, Fanon and Memmi have run…May 5, 07:52
    • Hatey McHateface on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Civil disobedience, eh, YL? Is that a promise, or just a solemn vow?May 5, 07:41
    • Hatey McHateface on Binfire Of The Vanities: “Fa’s Northy? Looks like he’s decamped tae Unherd: https://unherd.com/2026/05/north-wests-stolen-childhood/May 5, 07:39
  • A tall tale



↑ Top