The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

Clarity and certainty

Posted on April 25, 2016 by

We’re looking forward to the publication of the Scottish Labour manifesto for next month’s election, which is due to be published on Wednesday, just eight days before the vote. We confidently anticipate that it will definitively clear up a few issues we’re still not absolutely sure of the branch office’s position on.


For a day or two, at least.

When Dugdale ran for the Scottish Labour leadership last year, she said:

“The Scottish people simply don’t know what the Scottish Labour Party is about anymore. They had 160 different manifesto policies and nobody knew what we were for. So I am going back to first principles. People will be under no illusion as to what the Labour Party’s about under my leadership.”

And that’s more or less true, at any specific given moment. It’s just that if you ask again the following week, you might get an entirely different answer.



October 2015:

“A fairer Scotland isn’t one where everyone pays more tax, in fact we want hundreds of thousands of working Scots to pay less tax.”

February 2016:

“In a major speech in Edinburgh this morning, the Scottish Labour leader will set out a clear position to the left of the SNP, by pledging to increase the Scottish rate of income tax to 11p – 1p higher than that proposed by George Osborne and John Swinney.”



August 2015:

“Jeremy Corbyn’s principled opposition to Trident, which was warmly welcomed by thousands of people when he visited Scotland last week, has put pressure on Ms Dugdale’s own position regarding the weapons of mass destruction.

During the BBC interview, Ms Dugdale stuck to her commitment to multilateralism, saying: “The question that you have to ask is what is the best way to get other countries to give up their nuclear weapons? I think the way to do that is together on a multilateral basis.”

Scottish CND co-ordinator John Ainslie welcomed the call for debate but told the Star that he was “disappointed” that Ms Dugdale was not herself against Trident renewal.”

April 2016:

“Kezia Dugdale has confirmed Scottish Labour will oppose the renewal of Trident in its Holyrood manifesto, which will be published next week.

The Scottish Labour leader said her plan to axe the nuclear missile defence would be combined with details of how to create replacement jobs for workers.”



July 2015:

“The Scottish Labour Party and its MSPs have always spoken with one united voice on this issue and we as a group voted for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill to improve the lives of children across Scotland.”

“There is no doubt that the named person element has widespread support from the children’s sector. I say to all the groups that have provided evidence to the committee and lobbied MSPs that their evidence is really welcome.

There is a sense that a degree of ignorance is behind some people’s opposition to the named person element.”

March 2016:

“Kezia Dugdale urges SNP to halt named person scheme after claiming policy is an ‘absolute mess’.”



1 April 2016:

“I’ve never contemplated [Brexit]. I really wouldn’t like to choose, because what I want to do is the best possible thing for Scotland, putting Scotland first,” she says, pointing out that some have argued that a solo Scottish reentry to the EU might prove too difficult.

But if such claims proved unfounded, might Dugdale argue, for Scotland’s sake, against the UK Union? “Possibly. It’s not inconceivable”.”

24 April 2016:

“I will always vote No against independence… in every scenario I would vote No again.”

Well, thank goodness everyone finally knows what Scottish Labour stand for, eh?

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

414 to “Clarity and certainty”

  1. Macart says:

    Weathervane politician, leading a weathervane branch of a weathervane party.

    Who knew?

  2. Jim Watson says:

    Oh Rev, you are awful…but I like you!

  3. CameronB Brodie says:

    What does ‘Scottish’ Labour stand for?


    @ ‘Scottish’ Labour
    Imperialism is so 19th century, don’t you think?

  4. Bob Mack says:

    All well and good Rev, but what about the free jelly and ice cream once a week?.

    What about everybody deciding their own tax code by themselves ?. What about rebates for council tax which will be also used to improve education?

    What about the magical money which where you cut in half to double it?

    I think you are being disingenuous Rev. We all know that Labour policy is adaptable enough to serve 5 million masters let alone one in Kezia. .Something for everybody.Guaranteed.

    Mystical, magical, now you see it ,now you don’t policies.

    Rumour has it they are jntroducing the “shell ” game into the NHS,,where if you can identify under which of the three shells the pea is hidden you can get your operation

    Deception, delusion, but all the fun of the circus for the onlooking public

  5. ScottishPsyche says:

    Slab manifesto:

    “…Little high, little low,
    Anyway the wind blows
    doesn’t really matter to me, to me…”

  6. Greannach says:

    I feel very buoyed up seeing the photo of the Head Boy and Head Girl at the top of the page. Very vibrant. Very thrusting. But what happens when the Head Teacher says “No”?

  7. Jimmy says:

    Labour…..Real change now….and every day of the week.

  8. snode1965 says:

    Well Ruth Davidson is correct about one thing…they would make a more effective opposition, as everyone knows exactly what a Tory stands for.
    As for Labour,both here in Scotland and at Westminster, you would be hard pressed to name a single conviction policy. They are left with a core support of “traditional ” elderly voters, that are set in their ways. Replaced on the centre-left by the SNP,replaced by the Greens on the far-left, it’s only a matter of time until they are gone.

  9. G H Graham says:

    I actually miss laughing at Labour’s previous north British branch office manager, Johann “Stairheid Rammy” Lamont. At least her vacuous, glaiket charm was consistent.

    Kezi “Dizzy” Dugdale on the other hand, is as predictable as the condom policy at a brothel in Lagos.

  10. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Who will be first to leave their current job – Ronnie Deila or Dippity Dug?

    I’ve already decided to bet on Anas Sarwar being the next SLAB leader, but, still cannot decide who to go for as next Celtic boss – see these big decisions.

    Still, absolutely nailed-on SNP x 2, coupled with EU Remain.

  11. Free Scotland says:

    The fact that Labour have waited until a week before the election before publishing their ShabbyFesto serves to reinforce the impression that they are a useless bunch of dithering incompetents.

    And Dugdale is about as sensitive as a boxer’s punchbag: she can be pummelled endlessly, but she dumbly swings back for more.

  12. Inverclyder says:

    Add to Kez and here fantasy politics the superior intellect and interview prowess of Jackie Baillie and surely this winning team are unstoppable.

    Where did it all go wrong they must be asking themselves while in the background the knives are being sharpened for the post election results slaughter, the inevitable blame game and a new leader taking a backward step yet again.

    Rumour has it that there are now so many nails in the Labour Branch Office coffin that it’s now made entirely of nails and is worth more than all the Branch Office membership fees put together. So at least they have that going for them!

  13. CameronB Brodie says:

    Oops. That should have read “rule from London”. Time for some brain food. 🙂

  14. Ken500 says:

    Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. The majority are sick of Labour.

    Do you want to live in one of the most prosperous countries in the worlds or do you want to be governed by Westminster which doesn’t care.

    SNP x 2

  15. Almannysbunnet says:

    If you want a politician who isn’t afraid to change her mind then she is the clear world champ.
    I heard that she has a dice rattling around inside her head. It has “Yes, No, Maybe, Never, Always and Sometimes” on its sides. She gives her head a wee shake before answering a question. That blank look you see every now and again is when the dice has rolled out of sight.

  16. schrodingers cat says:

    baillie slab candidate for trident
    slab party against trident
    slab leader dugdale for trident
    labour party against trident
    most labour MPs for trident
    labour leader corbyn against trident

    with such a diversity of views, is it possible for there to be a U turn?

    maybe this is a deliberate ploy by slab to confuse their own supporters.

    3 new leaflets delivered by postie
    1 ukip
    1 ruth davidson, no red white or blue, SNP yellow and white would you believe, oh, and no mention of the fukcin’ tories
    1 wullie rennie promising to save the wurld and his own skin. too bad he couldnt be bothered to show for a hustings in his own home town of strathmiglo

  17. Free Scotland says:

    They must have known the game was up when Jim Murphy’s “Join-Labour-for-£1” scheme was a total flop.

  18. Betty Boop says:

    @ Macart

    Was thinking hereabouts that “tumbleweed” rather than weathervane is the first impression that comes to mind 😉

  19. Robert Graham says:

    A timely reminder to anyone of what’s to come if this lot ever get into power again ,I can say without a word of contraception you REV will not be on her Christmas card list , she must really hate you for reminding folk of her past remarks , well thats all they are remarks i dont believe anyone out there gives too f/ks what she says this week last week it’s all background noise .

  20. Karmanaut says:

    “People will be under no illusion as to what the Labour Party’s about under my leadership.”

    She’s got a bit confused here. The Labour Party was never in any danger of electing her as a leader. And she’s probably changed her mind since she made the statement anyway.

  21. Robert Graham says:

    Almannysbunnet at 1-06 – ha ha priceless Classic

  22. Donald MacKenzie says:

    I just want to know, from G H Graham (above at 12:56) what the condom policy at a brothel in Lagos is … and how does he/she know about this!!

    Whatever it is, it is likely to be more consistent that Labour’s position on a number of things.

  23. Finnz says:

    But, but, but

    What about the APD.

    Will nobody think of the children…

    ad infinitum…zzzzzzz

  24. Training Day says:

    Labour’s stumble into the abyss is no longer even entertaining.

    It’s just embarrassing. Best to look away and pretend the party never existed.

  25. Helpmaboab says:

    Now now. We can’t expect a politician to advocate the same policies for more than a few months at a time. They should follow the whims of public opinion, as expressed through focus groups, not attempt to LEAD public opinion.

    Imagine, say, if a party had remained opposed to Trident or The House of Lords or privatised public services for decades. Or, even more laughable, had supported Scottish independence for its entire history. Such an unbending fanatical party would be unelectable: Reduced to the status of a ridiculed fringe, neck-and-neck with the Tories.

    Err, um, what was my point again?

  26. Bob Mack says:

    Labour cannot do U turns. They are more of a double ww variety.

  27. Valerie says:

    A vote for SLab is a vote for London rule.

    And that’s not even for Corbyn, that’s for BoJo.

    Like Hameron, Kez is toast. Herald today touting Sarwar, so they are wheeling him in a barra already.

    SLab, comedy value only.

  28. Frank Wright says:

    Perhaps the 2015 policies were Ms Dugdale’s own as the new leader of Scottish Labour, and the 2016 policies are simply “minor” revisions carried out after “suggestions” by Labour HQ?

  29. schrodingers cat says:

    on a brigher note
    ukip have learned to spell holyrood correctly

    2nd vote for ruthie, say no to indyref2

    no mention of the tories

    rennie….um who cares, but this is now the 10th leaflet the postie has delivered
    500,000 leaflets and 15k postage costs
    just in NEF

  30. scotspine says:

    yet, some folk will still vote for this Gordian knot of contradiction, confusion and in Baillie’s case, lies…..

  31. Macart says:

    @Betty Boop

    Three wheels on ma wagon,
    but ah keep rollin’ along.
    Them policies keep doggin’ me,
    But ahm a rollin’,
    Jes rollin’ aaaaloooooong!

    Thangyouverramuch. 🙂

  32. Papadox says:


  33. call me dave says:

    It’s because labour have nothing to say that is in Scotland’s interest nothing!

    ‘Least said soonest mended’ is their only hope and that’s with their fingers and legs crossed and a lucky rabbit’s foot aroond their necks. What the SNP says x 2.

    Meanwhile John Beattie is on shortbread radio discussing pigeons but should be telling us all about labour chickens coming home to roost.

    Text us your hopes and dreams they ask us. Well that’s Auntie.

    Funny old world init!…init?


    The SNP say they will invest £500m more than inflation in the NHS

    Labour promise to invest £500m into primary care health services over the next five years

    Meanwhile our political editor Brian Taylor is in Orkney on the Holyrood election trail…

    Orkney! A hot bed of politics… last week it was down in the borders. What about the middle bit.

  34. Chic McGregor says:

    You don’t like that policy? Don’t worry, I have lots of other alternatives you won’t like either.

  35. Proud Cybernat says:

    And Edinbugh Schools PFI rip-off, Kez? Care to comment?

  36. galamcennalath says:

    Labour (North Britain) appear to have one firm policy – London Rule OK.

    IMO Dugdale made a mistake (as she can) with her “not inconceivable” comment. I am quite sure she quickly realised what she was saying, and got back on message. The Union above all else.

    That dictates all other policies which spin and blow with the wind, falling into whatever form best suits the case for the Union and against the SNP at any instant. If circumstances change, the policies change to take up the current best SNPBad angle.

    Labour will definitely not deserve the 20ish % they get in the forthcoming election.

  37. Quentin Quale says:

    Naw, Kez, the problem is we do, it’s you and the rest of your Party that don’t. Treating your current position as if it’s the fault of the electorate might just give you a wee hint. But probably not.

  38. ScottishPsyche says:

    MisReporting Scotland at last realising what we all knew – that their desperate push to make Slab Tax ‘the big issue’ has failed miserably.

  39. yesindyref2 says:

    Sorry OT already, I kind of regard Labour as an unneccessary irrelevance in New Scottish Politics. Kind of like a Dodo that still flies around in its own mind what there is of it.

    David Cameron said that he did not care about Scotland days after the country voted to remain part of the union, according to a former Liberal Democrat MP.

    In a new book about the coalition, ex-Liberal Democrats schools minister David Laws claims that the Prime Minister told Nick Clegg that Scotland was ‘Labour’s problem’ after the independence referendum.

    Interesting quote from a LibDem.

    “‘Look Nick'”, said David Cameron impatiently, “I just don’t care. We’ve only got one Conservative MP north of the Border. Let Labour sort it out. It’s now their problem.

    Well we all knew that, why didn’t the LibDems – and Labour?

  40. call me dave says:

    @Donald MacKenzie

    🙂 I was too polite to ask.

    It reminded me of the old joke about the mobile ice cream vendor selling the pill on the side.

    Instead of the usual sign of ‘Stop me and buy one’

    He had ‘Buy me and stop one’
    Right I’m off to sort out my empty marmalade jars and alphabetise my loose screws and get back in time for the news where we are later on. Wish I had a man shed…:-(

  41. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Remember Duncan H.?

    He’s Tweeted a very useful photograph of himself putting his postal vote in a letterbox, along with clear instructions on how the comrades should do likewise asap.


  42. Big Jock says:

    She is a shambles! Clearly she says what she thinks. Then her media PR person from head office tells her off. She then comes back and changes the story.

    So much for not being a machine poitician. She is, except she thinks first then gets reprogrammed by the machine and reproduces the party line in reverse order.

    This is someone totally out of her depth. Murphy was an arrogant ,selfish,boorish patronising wanker. But at least he was consistantly so.

  43. Les Wilson says:

    Slab could be clever,” If you do not like our policies, we have others”
    Actually piles of them, we could change them every day, we have so many! We are adaptable losers.

  44. Bill McDermott says:

    I noticed on Tom Gordon’s profile piece on Kez in yesterday’s Sunday Herald that she made an unsolicited comment about her father’s SNP membership. Apparently it is all about ‘hating the English’.

    Do I sense a fractured relationship between father and daughter?

  45. Papadox says:

    O/T EBC pushing the boat out. JBURD. “Reporting Scotland will be broacast for one hour per night till the election” Brian Taylor looking very cold and pissed of in Lerwick, he must have been on EBC boat as it was pushed out. Let us get rid of these jokers and their pay master it truly is embarrassing.

  46. Cherry says:

    I was thinking the exact same thing as Donald McKenzie…how DOES G.H.Graham know the condom policies of a brothel in Lagos!

    The answer has to be more entertaining than what Kezia may or may not do/say/think about slab politics…we as a nation have moved on from the politics of deceit and misdirection. So GH.G what’s the story…hmmmm!

    SNP X 2 EU IN

  47. Rob James says:

    @ Schrodinger’s cat

    With the libdums and labour’s conviction to boost education, I’m sure the new Madras college will be up and running in no time at all. Then again, how long have they been arguing about their preferred site? What a complete shambles.

  48. Greannach says:

    Is it too late to nominate Margaret Curran as the next leader of the Branch? The Curran Comedy Cavalcade was always highly entertaining, especially when she tried to mention “Realpolitik” four times in one interview. Priceless fun!

  49. Patrick Roden says:


    ““‘Look Nick’”, said David Cameron impatiently, “I just don’t care. We’ve only got one Conservative MP north of the Border. Let Labour sort it out. It’s now their problem. ”

    Well we all knew that, why didn’t the LibDems – and Labour?

    We don’t have to ask Labour if they knew David Cameron cared, because they themselves plainly don’t care about Scotland.

    When an SNP MP asked a question about Scotland during the last parliament, a Labour MP (who many people have claimed was Ian Davidson) cried out “Who Cares”

    This was met with hoots of laughter by the mostly Scottish Labour MP’s who were sitting beside him.

    The one thing about Ian Davidson is, he at least is honest about what Labour thinks about Scotland.

    Wasn’t it Ian Hood another fat troughing Labour MP who stated in the house of commons that even if Scotland was better off independent, he would still vote for her to remain shackled to Westminster (no doubt happy to watch us having our assets stripped, as long as he was stuffing his big fat salary and expenses account, into his big fat bank account, so he could keep feeding his big fat useless arse)

    Yes they knew, but they simply don’t care!

  50. K1 says:


    What are they good for?

    Absolutely Nothing!

    SNP x 2 reaches the parts that other party’s can only dream of.

  51. John says:

    Dugdale makes it up as she goes along . I don’t think she has a grasp on any of Labour’s policies .Mind you I don’t blame her , I don’t think any Labour voter knows what their policies are from day to day .

  52. Mick DIAMOND says:

    Anyone who votes for any party other than snp=2, is wasting their vote and inadvertently voting for bojo who will be the next tory pm shafting scotland after brexit. Was’nt he the one who said that ‘ a pound spent in crawley, was better than a pound spent in scotland’. Or words to that effect.

  53. Hugh Kirk says:

    “Real Change Now”…..Or “Real Change of leadership soon”. Or “Real Change,oot on wur arse.” I could think up more but I “Real” couldn’t be bothered.

  54. Inverclyder says:

    Hugh Kirk @ 2:15pm

    With talk like that you might get the job yourself!

  55. K1 says:

    Aye so Cameron says this to Nick after the vote after coming here before the vote tae beg us tae stay…I’d give him a personal ‘effing kicking’ but he’s England’s problem. We’ve only got one Tory viceroy in Scotland, who will be removed soon enough. The hypocritical bastard.

  56. Nana says:

    @Patrick Roden

    Here’s the “who cares” moment.

  57. John Edgar says:

    Kezia Dugdale, another Slab leader with a short shelf life. She is following J Murphy, J Lamont, I Gray et al. She should not be downhearted; no one can turn around Slab anymore. It is a spent branch. It needs drastic pruning, if not severence from the Lab dahn sath. Only then can it start to reconnect with people up here. The trouble is that for the last 50 to 60 years ir has been a hanger on “party”, doing what it was told and being useful lobby fodder, never having to think. It had to be jolted by Wilson into thinking about devolution, but Wilson was worried that the loss of the fodder would mean no Labour government at Westmister. With EVEL, no need for Slab any more and they only have one MP! Same as the Tories. Even Cameron sees the Scot Tories as irrelevant as they have only one MP.
    Sarwar will take over. YAWN. The BBC Scotland/Union wil big him up. YAWN.

  58. Onwards says:

    I can’t see her lasting much longer, despite her wish to stay on.

    It seems like recently all the talk has been on the perils of tactical voting, we have forgotten who the main enemy is.

    Their proposal to tax low earners more might have slowed down the ‘Red Tories’ insults, but instead it revealed their sheer incompetence, falling into another Tory trap.

    And make no mistake, they would rather see Cameron and Osborne lording it over Scotland from London, rather than having faith in the people of Scotland to run their own country better.

  59. tamson says:

    Are they not back to supporting Named Persons now?

  60. Mick DIAMOND says:

    Patrick roden 2.08pm. In any other country, scum like hood and davidson would be charged with treason.

  61. I wonder how many of these policies would labour implement if it were ever in a position to do so.

    And if Dugdale gets knifed in the back after the Holyrood elections as looks likely to happen and Anas Sarwar becomes leader, when ever he spouts the tripe about Scotland better being part of the

  62. Robert Louis says:

    It is quite clear what the Labour party stands for, it stands for the Labour party.

    Nothing to do with jobs, economy, welfare or Scotland. It is just all about Labour. They have NO primciples, and will do or say anything in the hope it might get them elected.

    2 votes SNP.

  63. Big Jock says:

    If Dugdale thinks her father supports the SNP becasue he hates the English! Does that mean that 52% of Scotland hates the English. Including the 10% of SNP members and Mp’s or MSp’s who were born in England!

    You could not make this stuff up. Apparently if you don’t want London rule or any other rule outside your own nation then you are anti English. If we were ruled from Paris I would seek independence. Does that mean I hate the French?

    If we suggested that WM moved to Edinburgh. Would the English happily accept Holyrood as their parliament. Your damn right they wouldn’t. Kezia is an example of the Scottish sychophantic Cringe. So terrified of upsetting her London masters she can’t express her own nationality as they may be offended. This is an example of total insecurity. when really the question should be, why would someone take offence at someone being Scottish, as opposed to British. You know the way Scots are offended if someone
    who is English says they are English…don’t we folks Eh! The woman is a waste of oxygen.

    The Irish are anti English, the Indians, the Canadians, the Americans, the Austrailians. All these contries gave up being British a long time ago.

  64. K1 says:

    It’s nothing short of a total disgrace that Sarwar is allowed intae our parliament after we booted him out of Westminster last May. The thought of his phisog and blustering soundbite laden pish gracing our screens and newsagent stalls throughout the land is enough tae drive ye tae despair.

    Are his chances a dead cert?

  65. I wonder how many of those policies Labour would implement if it ever were in a position to do so.

    And if as looks increasingly likely Dugdale gets knifed in the back after the holyrood elections and Anas Sarwar
    becomes leader.

    Whenever he spouts the rubbish about Scotland being better as part of the UK.

    He should be asked why doesn’t he go back to Pakistan and tell his father and the people of Pakistan to give up their independence and be governed from new Delhi in India
    and see what the reaction would be.

    I think he would be extremely lucky to get out of the country alive.

  66. Big Jock says:

    K1 2.33 Carmichael is still picking up an MP’s salary and paid his legal fees from his consituants food banks. These folks have no shame or moral compass! Also they are generally talentless eejits that can’t get work elsewhere.

  67. call me dave says:

    Looks like it.
    All our labour old pals on the list.

    Tories as well

    Wee Wullie too unless the cat’s predictor convinces enough voters in Mid Fife to try and tweak the vote. 🙂

  68. Greannach says:

    K1 @ 2.33 pm

    I think Sarwar’s chances are a dead cert. That’s why Dugdale has been keeping his seat in Holyrood warm for him. A bit like Medvedev and Putin, really.

  69. Capella says:

    You forgot to add:

    restore prescription charges
    restore tuition fees
    restore toll charges on the Forth Bridge

    as well as increase taxes.

  70. Robert Graham says:

    Mundell interviewed on BBC Scotland – when gently reminded of the VOW and the guaranteed work on the Clyde with a “NO” vote , Stated if Scotland had voted “YES” there would be no warship work on the Clyde ,No shit really thank f/k we dodged that bullet then Eh ,only thing were hit by a big f/n Train instead makes you think there is indeed someone looking out for us just not him ,any thoughts Kezia ?.

  71. Alba 46 says:

    I despair for the yoonies. Their political masters in London can’t even be bothered to come to Scotland and campaign for their branch office juniors. Do any of them sit down and wonder why?. Yet they still slavishly follow the UKOK mantra.

    What is wrong with these people. They are ignored, chastised and cast adrift but they still follow the UK party line. They lack the confidence and self esteem to stand up not only for Scotland but for their own self respect. They are gutless, spineless and lacking in their own ability. Does anyone in Scotland really want these people to represent them in government?

    What bothers me even more is that there are people in Scotland who actually vote for these unionist parties. They think that westminster can run Scotland better then we can do it ourselves. If nothing else over the last 9 years the SNP has proved beyond any doubt that they can effectively run our nation on the handouts that westminster so graciously give us. Imagine what we could do if we were independent?

    Come on Scotland wake up enough is enough. Tell the unionist parties to take a hike and lets go it alone

    SNP x 2 twice (me and the wife)

  72. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:

    “Remember Duncan H.?

    He’s Tweeted a very useful photograph of himself putting his postal vote in a letterbox, along with clear instructions on how the comrades should do likewise asap.”

    And that demonstrates why the postal vote system is so cock-eyed.

    Apart from folk who are abroad at the time or offshore. People in hospital for planned operations or homebound as completely infirm etc.

    Every able-bodied person should and must personally vote at their local polling station.

    Postal votes are open to manipulation and should be avoided as much as possible.

    If I rightly recall(?), even some posters here have sent in postal votes when it’s not apparently needed. 🙁

  73. Ian says:

    ‘We’ll do this and we’ll do that.’ Just hot air. Funny how the main UK parties don’t talk about what they actually did when they had the chance. Is that because all they did was screw things up time after time after time after…….

  74. Free Scotland says:

    “Scots do not know what Scottish Labour is for anymore, but I aim to change that,” says Dugdale.


    “Dugdale does not know what Scottish Labour is for anymore, but we aim to change that next week,” say clear-minded Scots, who intend to banish labour to the dustbin of history, where it now undoubtedly belongs.

  75. Inverclyder says:

    With the impending arrival of Sarwar it certainly looks like they’re planning a long term rebuild of Branch Office Scotland.

    It’ll be a Socialist Revolution if they can get a Socialist to join,

    Aye, that’ll work!

    They’ll be replacing the current dead wood with newer dead wood that replaced the old dead wood that originally replaced the original dead wood.

    Perfect sense!

    Dynamic, relevant, forward looking, trustworthy, reliable. None of these words and a million more will ever be used to describe that bunch of wasters.

  76. Nana says:

    Sorry for going off topic but urgent question to be asked re shipbuilding today at 3.30.
    As I have to go out perhaps someone would put the link for parly tv later.

  77. schrodingers cat says:

    sarwar is a dead cert, kez isnt anti nazis enough, westminster has already decided the unionist game plan for after the EU ref

    on a brighter note

    we know what slab will be like going forward, more of the same but much much more vitriolic

    I mean, it has worked so far? hasnt it?

  78. carjamtic says:

    Morally Bankrupt Red Tories

    At a Labour Party Wedding
    All hell breaks loose when it is discovered one of guests has fcked the bride.

    ‘Everybody out, this party’s over…..’

    ‘Hold on everyone, it’s alright; you don’t have to go’, slurred a well rounded woman, with a face like a ragman’s trumpet.

    ‘He’s apologised’

    Orange Tories

    Full of bravado and lies, but when it comes down to it, as much use as a one legged man in an erse kicking competition.

    Blue Tories

    A man see’s a Tory walking a pig with a wooden leg.
    ‘That’s not something you see every day’ he remarked

    The Tory said ‘this pig is a hero, a fire broke out one night in the big house, the pig ran in, rescued all the children, then went back in and rescued all the adults, we owe this pig our lives’.

    ‘Amazing, what happened to its leg, did it get burned in the fire’?
    ‘No it was fine, but when you’ve got a pig like this… don’t eat it all at once’.

    These Tories are a wee gift to Scotland, without them, we might be the cruellest/meanest or daftest ones in the class.

    Thanks,now get oot of oor road.

    P.S. Made that bit up,Labour never apologises for anything.


  79. Famous15 says:


    I am beginning to detect the next ploy by the yoon media,the divide and rule having failed,and that is to sow boredom and despondency. They hope to lower the turnout to the point where the merit of the result is in question.

    It is not over till the fat lady sings!

  80. galamcennalath says:

    Greannach says:

    “I think Sarwar’s chances are a dead cert. ”

    Indeed. Top of the list. Guaranteed a seat, in reality.

    I have a very simple solution to some of the list and two vote problems.

    Don’t have a second vote, use the votes from the constituencies to decide (using d’Hondt) who gets the regional list seats. Then, make up the lists AFTER voting based on the losing constituency candidates for each party in order of percentage votes they received.

    This means the list winners will be politicians who almost got elected, therefore be still relatively popular with voters.

    They may not be party apparatchiks like Sarwar!

    No tactical nonsense. Everyone votes for their party knowing their vote is not wasted if enough others agree then they get at least one seat.

    There’s a flaw. Each candidate for a constituencies has to pay a £500 deposit. Clearly my proposals need parties to sit in most/all seats. Therefore, rather than per individual, it should be a country wide per party fee. Something low enough to let all bona fide parties stand..

  81. heedtracker says:

    If SLab don’t do well May 5 and Anas can’t save them by council elections next year, it really is the end of the line for the whole Labour in Scotland sheebang. What an opportunity for Greens. Also BBC vote Slab Scotland are going to look even more hideously desperate trying to pressure Scots to vote SLab.

    Both yoon outfits two should just amalgamate now, formally that is, not like now where ithey are peddled as SLab/BBC are rightful and natural owners of their Scotland region, this SNP stuff’s just a blip.

  82. Kenny says:

    I hear from our Welsh friends that the “Welsh Labour” party is also publishing its manifesto all of 8 days before the election.

    The word is that London HQ has been so busy with EU stuff and other things that they have just not got round to writing it.

    I am not making this up!

  83. Les Wilson says:

    A wee song from a wee while ago, still apt today.

  84. Ken Rowan says:

    When did Labour ever feel compelled by the contents of a manifesto?

  85. Graf Midgehunter says:

    “It is not over till the fat lady sings!”

    Jackie farts and we all fall down dead…

  86. schrodingers cat says:


    bit late to change the voting system 10 days before the election.
    not that i dont think your idea doesnt have merit

    i did put a proposal for the snp conference to include the reform of council elections in their manifesto, but it was rejected

    this was unfortunately because the present local electoral system is a complete nightmare, sod tactical voting, i cant even see a means to get snp candidates elected, indeed, we cant even stand candidates for every councillor position.

  87. call me dave says:


    OK Nana:

    Question: Shipyards at about 15:30hrs.

  88. Big Jock says:

    The reason us folks on here can’t get to grips with the Yoons sychopantic deference and obediance to London. Is that we are not compliant ,sychophantic or obediant.

    We are all rebels against the British state. We think for ourselves. We don’t take abuse kindly, and roll over revealing our soft under belly. We think get tae F**ck nobody is going to tell me I am poor,useless,stupid and a North Briton.

    We can see what game they are palying and we want no part of it. We are the Mutineers on the Bounty. We want out of this abusive relationship that only benefits our inferred masters.

  89. Big Jock says:

    Graf 3.19 -You left a horrible image in my head. I won’t sleep tonight. I feel I need a bath now!

  90. Ruby says:

    Nana says:
    25 April, 2016 at 3:04 pm

    Sorry for going off topic but urgent question to be asked re shipbuilding today at 3.30.
    As I have to go out perhaps someone would put the link for parly tv later.

    Ruby replies

    Not sure if this is the correct link. Time will tell. 3mins to go.

  91. Les Wilson says:

    In case you have not seen this yet, it is Yew Choob on voting

  92. galamcennalath says:

    schrodingers cat says:

    “bit late to change the voting system 10 days before the election.”

    Indeed 😎

    Next time? I doubt it.

    I’m feeling much better about this election since I discovered bookie’s odd of 1/25 for an SNP overall majority, versus 10/1 for no majority! Mustn’t get complacent, though.

    “the present local electoral system is a complete nightmare,”

    A lot of people seem to like STV, but the implementation for Scottish local elections doesn’t seem to work very well.

  93. call me dave says:

    Still central to the UK plans build work proceeded by two off shore patrol vessels before the type T26 ships start.

    Nothing has changed but date start now June 2017.

    Must be more efficient a shipbuilding strategy to be done and a report made.

    The government reassures workers not to be worried…

    Reply: Thornberry Lab

    13 ships were promised to the Clyde + 5 other ships.

    Will construction begin this year 2016?

    Why is there talk of redundancies? Will he answer.

    Answer:Mr Dunne Tory Min
    Routine meeting two weeks before election and labour seeking to make political gain.

    Construction programme remains on track. 8 ships to be built.
    Report before end of 2016.

    Brendan O’Hara SNP

    Questions the pledge. wants no redundancies.

    Dunne replies I paraphrase :

    Suck it up if Scotland was independent there would be no work for the yard from the rUK so F-off!. 🙂

  94. Doug M says:

    G H Graham 12:56
    “as predictable as the condom policy at a brothel in Lagos.”

    One of the best so far! (And I’ve never been to Lagos!)

  95. Jim says:

    That pilot guy is a Tory and they support education fees so what the fuck was his problem, pay up you muppet.

  96. Not Convinced says:

    Big Jock said at 2:32 pm
    If Dugdale thinks her father supports the SNP becasue he hates the English! Does that mean that 52% of Scotland hates the English. Including the 10% of SNP members and Mp’s or MSp’s who were born in England!

    Not to mention that percentage of SNP members who live in England!

  97. Cactus says:

    Consider this..

    If either of the union based parties (in their current state) were to get back in to the running of our Scotland, how likely would it be that the signage outside Holyrood HQ would change from the “Scottish Government” baaaaack to “Scottish Executive” again, remember that?

    There ye go, we’d be a country with a government, but not by name.

    SO, by using both of your SNP votes, purple and peach, we get to keep Holyrood HQ as a government, in nature and name. Yes!

    Result! 🙂

  98. call me dave says:

    Mr Dunne Min:

    There is a possibility if the new design is simpler that some of or all of the work could be done elsewhere…if the upcoming report advises that… it seems.

    Oswald SNP I paraphrase: Tell us the truth.

    Amhed Sheikh SNP: Will there be 8 ships?

    Mr Dunne Min: waffles.

    Seems par for the course folks:

    T Shepherd: SNP: Commitment of no redundancies:

    Mr Dunne Min: There will be 8 ships built on the Clyde.

    P Grant SNP:

    Mentions Sturgeons request for no redundancies.

    Mr Dunne Min: I paraphrase ( Suck it up if there was independence there would be no ships to build)
    So it goes! 🙂
    That’s all folks:
    Tooodle ooo the Nooo!

  99. Ruby says:

    Before I could take any statement made by Kezia Dugdale re hating ‘the English’ she would need to define exactly what she means by ‘the English’

    Who are ‘the English’?

  100. John says:

    At least the Speaker let a lot of SNP MP’S speak , think that was because neither Labour or Tories were all that bothered about what happens on the Clyde . So as Dunne kept saying , it is just as well Scotland voted to stay in the UK or we would have had no ships to build . So, shut up , be grateful , for what you’ve got .

  101. ScottishPsyche says:

    Labour UK lining up with the Tories to use parliamentary debate on shipbuilding to rerun Indy arguments.

    They know they are getting hammered on this in Scotland so using Westminster to get Better Together arguments rehashed.

    Utterly cynical. John Woodcock is one of the most horrible individuals in Parliament.

  102. Ruby says:

    It must be terrible being a shipbuilder on the Clyde.
    It seems as if they are expected to get on their knees and thank the Tories for oh so kindly providing them with a job!

  103. Ruby says:

    Fluffy’s got a fluffy face! He looked ridiculous nodding away like a car ornament.

  104. Almannysbunnet says:

    I tried to listen to the debate on the Clyde shipyards but couldn’t do it. I couldn’t keep my eyes off a strange little ewok that was cowering behind the procurement minister Philip Dunne. Then I realized it was fluffy. Fluffy has grown a full on almost see through ginger beard, his eyes were darting about like he was demented. He was twitching and mumbling to himself. Maybe he was listing to some jazz on his wee earpiece.

  105. John says:

    By the way , the nodding donkey that was Mundell , sitting right next to Dunne , is supposed to be the Scottish Minister ,absolute disgrace .

  106. Dunks says:

    I absolutely despise this constant yoon spoon fed nonsense that because you support SNP,then by definition, you must surely hate the English!

    I am proud to call myself half English as my Mother hailed from Hartlepool. Whenever I get accused of this nonsense I simply tell them that i vote SNP because I am Pro Scottish, not Anti English.

    P.S. So did my Mother.

  107. Gary45% says:

    Duggers proudly stands at the bow of the Slab ship,
    HMS Sieve.
    glug, glug.
    K wi an E was predicable, pathetic and a waste of air this morning.
    Message to EBC Shortbread.

  108. Iona Brand says:

    I actually managed to get a sneak peek at the current draft of Labour’s manifesto (never mind how).

    They have two main policies; one is called “Ctrl+C” and the other is called “Ctrl+V”. These policies seem to be linked in some way.

    Labour in Scotland are also fully committed to something called;
    “{insert local issue here}”

    I’m not sure exactly what these policies entail, but Labour seem to think they’re brilliant!

  109. Papadox says:

    The Tolly Dunne with the assistance of Labour has just slipped a knife into the shipyard workers backs. Scotland is going to be stripped of many high quality skills to punish the people of Scotland for voting against the English Establishment. Even speaker Bercow treated the SNP MPs with disrespect and disdain (not for the first time) by leaving them till all the red & blue English MPs had spoken.
    We are not wanted in Westminster unless we keep our mouths shut and do as we are told like what the SLAB contingent had done for decades, and pocket the money, but don’t make waves.
    The English Establishment just want the SLAB lachies back, like the good old days, and rid of these pesky knowledgable nats.

  110. mealer says:

    Has everyone got The Ruth Davidson No Surrender Party leaflet through the post? Could some computery sort of fellow please scan it and send it to the Rev? He really needs to see this.

    It’s entitled Election Watch 2016 and is printed in bold black and orange letters.The small print mentions Scottish Conservatives a few times,but you’ve to look hard to find it.They are obviously too embarrassed and ashamed of their party to put its name in big letters.They make no mention of their candidate for this constituency.Is Alex Johnstone really such an electoral liability? Actually,he probably is.

    It’s pathetic and hilarious in equal measure.

  111. Coolheads Prevail says:

    The party that brought you warfare, crumbling schools and expense fiddling as common practice will have a manifesto full of stuff nicked from the SNP. Everything else will be SNPBad.

  112. gordoz says:


    Sorry mine ripped up and in the bin before it really hit the floor !

  113. ArtyHetty says:

    Labour are probably tweeking their so called manifesto having read the SNP one by now, although liebour’s will still no doubt be thin on the ground and very lightweight. There is a very cold breeze out there!

    Looks like the UKok government are playing games with the people of Scotland regards the Clyde ship building jobs, either that or they are running scared. It’s a known tactic, to threaten major cuts and/or job losses, and then a few days later, tone it down to a bare minimum, still destructive, but not as catastrophic as they threatened.

    Classic tory tactic, so you should all be grateful cos we just did you a huge favour! Of course, as we have a crucial election coming up in just a few days, I think we can all be sure that the Clyde ship building industry is not going to be there much longer, once that’s over.

  114. Valerie says:

    Looks like the shipbuilders are to be shafted. Absolutely disgusting.

    I think it was yesindyref2? that made reference to a revised procurement strategy being touted in a recent MoD document?

    That’s as good a reason as any for the Tories to take it off Scotland, and give it to the South, or anywhere.

    Shocking. I sincerely hope the rest of the electorate looks up from Strictly or Bake Off, or whatever mind numbing drivel is being served up by the state broadcaster.

  115. Robert Graham says:

    Iona Brand – good one -ctrl + alt + del works as well,But when all else fails pull the bleedn plug .This i imagine would put the poor souls out of their misery , that would go down well what a surprise on the day NO Manifesto,I Wonder if anyone would notice . Or more to the point care .

  116. Clootie says:

    …how can Labour stand for anything of meaning? They value nothing in their own nation or its people and seldom rise above the inaction of abstaining…not for them a vote of principle. Why make a stand at Westminster that commits when you can spin by abstaining (We were for or against as required…sometimes at the same time)

    Their electoral credentials for office in Scotland start with the selection of Kezia as leader from a gene pool that couldn’t outsmart primordial soup. They have embraced as a leader someone barely capable of reading out loud questions that only on rare occasions coincide with the topic under discussion.

    A leadership standard that permits Jackie Baillie to blatantly ignore her policies and yet keeps her in the leadership team. Once again a dual position of being for and against at the same time (in this case Trident)
    We have a party devoid of any resemblance to its origins or the ideals of the party founding fathers.

    Calling this branch office Labour is akin to calling the “enlightenment period” a get together for a chat.

    Kezia – what do you believe in…I can almost hear the SNPbad rant as she responds sadly.

    In the end we will have a manifesto of promises that will never be tested in power These policies will be produced by advisors from sample groups which suggest a spin advantage to slow the decline. That sums up their ambition.

    Such a pity she doesn’t believe in anything except attacking another party.

  117. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Aye but…naw but…aye but…naw but…” (repeat ad nauseam).

    Kezia Dugdale: the Vicky Pollard of Scottish politics.

    Fortunately I was in Rutherglen this morning and saw Nicola Sturgeon, a real politician who stands up for her country and is mobbed by people who trust her.

    Fair cheered me up.

    Memo to GH Graham:

    Dear Sir,

    Scotland is all a-tremble regarding the Lagos Brothel Policy. Could you please clarify the position (ooh, matron) before bed-time? The nation needs its beauty sleep.



  118. Capella says:

    Shock! Just discovered that Willie Young is 6th on the Labour list for Holyrood in the North East Region.
    Aberdeen’s gain will be the Nation’s loss if they win 6 seats.
    SNP x 2

  119. galamcennalath says:

    Just in case you were wondering, the UK is indeed the most wonderous nation to have graced this Earth …


  120. Returnofthemac says:

    Why has the SNP allowed BHS to go into administration?
    Surprised Kay with an E didn’t manage to work it into today’s grilling of the first minister.

  121. keaton says:

    @G H Graham
    I actually miss laughing at Labour’s previous north British branch office manager, Johann “Stairheid Rammy” Lamont.

    Margaret Curran is “Stairheid Rammy”. Lamont is a much more placid soul.

  122. Onwards says:

    Dunks says:
    25 April, 2016 at 4:46 pm
    I absolutely despise this constant yoon spoon fed nonsense that because you support SNP,then by definition, you must surely hate the English!

    I am proud to call myself half English as my Mother hailed from Hartlepool. Whenever I get accused of this nonsense I simply tell them that i vote SNP because I am Pro Scottish, not Anti English.

    P.S. So did my Mother.

    Yeah, It’s pathetic.

    I think Kezia will have lost a lot of respect after these remarks.
    She seemed to be projecting a softer image recently – her hair done, her aggression toned down, the light hearted Gary Tank Commander interview etc

    And now it’s back to nasty Kez when the mask slips – Insulting her own father in an election campaign – who by all accounts is a droll, mild mannered English teacher, not some blood and soil racist.

    Next interview, she will probably have the cheek to talk about ‘division’ again.

  123. Flower of Scotland says:

    I NEVER watch BBC in Scotland at 6.30pm but was strangely attracted to it today.

    It was seemingly Patrick Harvey,s turn to be interrogated by Jackie Bird.

    The interview strengthened my disregard for the Scottish Greens, but him in particular. How many parties standing at the election could he have mentioned as not being up to scratch, as far as the Greens are concerned?

    He mentioned only one, and that was the SNP.

    As I’ve said before, Independence is not at the top of the Greens agenda. So splitting your vote and giving one to Patrick Harvey’s Greens is insane!


  124. Effijy says:

    What does ‘Scottish’ Labour stand for?

    For they are never given a seat when their London masters
    are telling them what they have to believe in, well this week.

    Mibies Aye, Mibies Naw.

    I hear from a reliable source that Slab were now rolling dice
    to decide their latest policies.
    Once at 9am and then again at 12 noon for a whole new strategy.

    They are also asking for any members who have a spare roulette wheel to come forward

    You say Tomatoe Slab says Potatoe.

    We met at 9, I was on time
    No we met at 8 and you were late. lol

  125. Papadox says:

    What could be worse than reporting Scotland and the cast on your tele for 30 mins at your tea time?
    Having that crap on for 60 mins at your tea time! Embarrassing very embarrassing!

    SNP X 2

  126. Iain More says:

    Dugdale really is a SLAB creature when she stoops to having a go at her own father in an election campaign. I wonder what my shop steward and diehard Labour man would make of her. Well he was diehard Labour until he left with Bliars leadership of that Party and joined the SNP. I guess that nasty piece of work Dugdale would accuse my actually English father of being anti English instead of being pro Scottish working people who he did his best to represent in his working life. SLAB deserves extinction.

  127. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, listened to Dunne, and in his first answer after a load of waffle about Britannia ruling the waves or luring the slaves or something, he came to the Clyde and said 2 further OPVs were going to be built here.

    Then after more waffle where said 8 Type 26 were going to be built, he came to the bit where he said the Type 26 would be ASSEMBLED on the Clyde.

    Later question he did say built on the Clyde, but then assembling is building, just from pre-packaged componenets. Which leaves the door open to the hulls being built elsewhere, perhaps even with propulsion and navigation, but fit with all the top security secret stuff on the Clyde.

    Which is not a £8 billion contract to build 13 Type 26. It could be as low as what, £1 billion, and a lot less jobs.

    Later he went on about the GPFF – General Purpose Frigate (the FF presumable being FF for Frigate as DD is for Destroyer). This is the “light frigate” being mentioned, but absolutely no indication of where they’re being built.

    Reasonably sensibly for its own cash-strapped purposes, teh UK is keeping its options open on where warships are going to be built, at least with respect to hulls. Other countries do the same, such as Norway getting its frigates built in Spain.

    But that wasn’t the promise, that wasn’t the claim “The UK never build complex warships outside the UK, like never”. Nor is it any good to the hundreds of shipbuilders on the Clyde being shafted by Westminster.

  128. Jim says:

    Listening to Radio Shortbread, why did the woman get to waffle on about her disabled son without asking a question when the previous caller, the one on about trident was told in no uncertain terms to get a move on and ask a question.

    Labour council but it’s the SNPs fault.

    What a biased bunch of cuntrags.

  129. Mark Fletcher says:

    What is it with John Woodcock and that anti-SNP, anti-Scotland, anti-Scot animosity that fills his miserable soul?

    We can at least be grateful that the inarticulate buffoon is more an embarrassment than an asset to the Westminster parliament and to his party.

    Even his friends cringe when he is on his feet on one of his stumbling meandering rants.

  130. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Iona Brand.

    I see what the problem is with Labour’s manifesto. If it consists of CONTROL-C and CONTROL-V, then they must still be using microsloth software. So ‘olde worlde’.

    They really have to get used to using COMMAND-C and COMMAND-V on their funky (still to be bought) Macs. OSX is the way forward!
    (Check my avatar…)


  131. Robert Graham says:

    Ok Ok whats with all the brothel talk ? is this because Labour are getting pelters ? a bit like word association is it ? Shame on you people wash your mouths out thats after talking about them , I was tempted to add a little bit at the end but you can’t do these things now can you , dragged up in the 50s you see no tact .Probably the SNPs fault no doubt .

  132. NeoconNat says:

    The quest for dark energy continues but it won’t be found if nearly all the particles are going in the same direction. Nearly all…

    Bashing Labour reminds me of watching that Rodney King beating video, except that Labour deserve it — no prizes there.

    The real enemy or opposition in this election is the media and the strategy was unveiled last year when they introduced the plurality issue under the guise of the “one party state” debate. They’ve been sowing those seeds for months, then.

    Amazing to see that some of those seeds are now growing for all to see in the minds of people on here who really should know better. Anyone who swallows the plurality crap and is advocating giving our second votes to parties other than the SNP has been conned.

    The thing about conned people that they all have in common, apart from being a bit daft, is that they hate to admit they’ve been conned.

    The truth is the media planned this division in our ranks months ago. It’s straight out of Sun Tzu; when faced with superior forces, better to sow division and have them fight amongst themselves than attempt to fight them head on… Something like that.

    You know, in the history of UK politics, we haven’t really saw much in the way of tactical voting. It gets talked about and encouraged here and there, but by and large there hasn’t ever been much serious orchestration behind it. That’s what makes this election so different.

    All of a sudden tactical voting is enshrined in principle. It’s almost being sold as a political philosophy in and of itself under the guise of plurality. underpinning it all, of course, is the realisation that there isn’t a political party out there that can get near the SNP.

    As for the conned, like I said, they’ll never admit they are being used to deny the SNP a majority which is something the powers that be really fear. The salesmen who sold them this plurality snake oil appealed to their egos. It’s hard to get past the ego, as any good Hobbesian will tell you.

  133. call me dave says:

    What I thought Dunne said was right.

    The government is expected to publish a national shipbuilding strategy later this year, and there are fears that work promised to Scotland could be relocated to England.

    We could have been building a few of our own ships there for a Scottish Navy.

  134. Andy White says:

    There should be a Special Edition Magic 8 Ball with Kez’s face stamped on it really. Then we could all knock out our own SLAB 2016 manifestos and save them the bother.

  135. paul gerard mccormack says:

    I am now convinced that after many years of studying the various iterations of Kezia Dugdale’s face and seeing Max Wall there etc. that beneath her skin is none other than the head of the sci-fi ‘Alien’ waiting to burst out at the right moment, hopefully on one of these game-show-type-format ask the politician debate thingies.

    Keep taking the pills, son, just you keep taking the pills.
    SNP x2.

  136. Big Jock says:

    Jackie Burd is to political journalism, as Lorraine Kelly is to atomic physics.

    If anyone missed her interview with Patrick Harvie. :’ Patrick you support independence, but didn’t agree with the SNPs currency plans”. Er yes.: ” If the SNP organised another referendum with the same currency plans would you support independence?”

    Patrick looks embarrassed as if to say do you really need me to answer that!

    Ladies and gentlemen. I dont support the monarchy and am a Republican. So I would vote no unless the SNP abolish the monarchy.Because my personal opinion on one thing is more important than Scotland. This is the dumbest question I have ever heard.

    If Kezia is anti nuclear is she against the UKs independence. Surely she wouldn’t vote to maintain a nation that had things in it she didn’t believe in.

    Honestly Jackie is as thick as shit on the neck of a bottle.

  137. Big Jock says:

    Paul Max Wall… Bang on the money. Just needs the daft walk.

  138. heedtracker says:

    More certain clarity UKOK style, rancid The Graun says

    From top

    “Plan to build frigates on the Clyde will go ahead, says ?defence minister
    Philip Dunne says government committed to type-26 programme after accusations of betrayal over shipbuilding pledge”

    to bottom

    “Work on new type-26 frigates ordered by the Ministry of Defence had been expected to begin this year, but there remain concerns it could be delayed until 2017. Plans for a state-of-the-art “frigate factory” – which it had been hoped would help the yard win future export orders – also appear to have been shelved.

    The government is expected to publish a national shipbuilding strategy later this year, and there are fears that work promised to Scotland could be relocated to England.”

    Clear? A frigate factory for your NO vote must have sounded amazing 2014, they won and its all just bullshit, more UKOK bullshit.

  139. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, they appointed a chair to produce a National Shipbuilding Stragey.

    Sir John Parker’s appointment as the chairman of the National Shipbuilding Strategy was part of the UK Treasury’s budget day announcements on Mar 16. [2016]

    A Treasury-led effort to develop a surface warship building strategy has been underway since at least January, 2015, when the initiative was announced by Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne during a visit to the Portsmouth naval base on England’s south coast.

    Another article in defencenews:

    Industry executives have previously said the government has been looking at how to include English yards like Cammell Laird in the strategy.

    Babcock is the only English yard currently capable of building frigates, and then only small ones, but several companies south of the border were involved in constructing parts of the two Royal Navy 65,000 ton aircraft carriers now nearing completion in Scotland.”

  140. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, another bit in that articel which was about the date being leaked by the MOD:

    The letter set April 2017 as the milestone for Gardner to secure

    A spokeswoman for the MoD confirmed the approval date but cautioned the approval date would not necessarily tally with production start.

    “This letter sets a target for securing approval to proceed to manufacture; this is not necessarily the date when manufacture phase 1 will start, but it is a milestone which demonstrates momentum on the program,” she said.

    So 2015 ==> 2016 ==> 2017 ==> ???? and where?

  141. Gary45% says:

    Big Jock,
    “Just needs the daft walk”?????,
    also great analysis regarding Burd and Kelly.

  142. Gary45% says:


    It saddens me to say this, but if there is going to be anything in this little island that will benefit England over Scotland that is what will happen.
    The Yoons can spin all they like but that is the fact.

  143. Kevin Evans says:

    Am sorry for swearing but :-


  144. ronnie anderson says:

    Rite am running a free raffle (nae need tae thank me) ah hiv put aw the names of Wings poster’s intae ah barrel, fur a ticket tae ride


    And the winner is NeoconNat

    One ticket tae ride in the Hadron Collider

    Enjoy an ah mean that most sincerley.

  145. Breeks says:

    Pity that top picture of Kez and Dr Spock isn’t a full picture.

    I’m almost positive they have top hats, canes and tap dancing shoes on, and the band has just gone “Tadaaa!”

    Aye, I’ll just get my cape…

  146. Grouse Beater says:

    Please pass to as many folk, friend or foe, as possible.

    The truth, and nothing but:

    I’ll add to the list as I find more.

    We need to get the information out there right up until election day.

    Many thanks.

  147. Dunks says:

    No such thing as Scottish Labour, only Labour in Scotland.

    Scottish Labour autonomy is a myth.

  148. Inverclyder says:

    With this Govan scandal and the lowlife lies from the Tories, forgetful Labour “it winsae us” and Wee Wullie Rennie and the gang of pig filmmakers there for comedy effect.

    Are we witnessing one of the changes in circumstances that Sturgeon needs to call the 2nd Indyref.

  149. heedtracker says:

    Gary45% says:
    25 April, 2016 at 8:36 pm

    It saddens me to say this, but if there is going to be anything in this little island that will benefit England over Scotland that is what will happen.

    Where to start. That Frigate Factory for your NO’s a new one. Its been going for a long time, tipping up their UK and sliding everything south.

    How the fcuk can Scotland have such a giant offshore oil industry and yet almost the only ships that can be Scottish Clyde built are RN warships. Its mind blowlingly shite. And also explains why they will never give up control of North Sea oil and gas.

    There’s way too many I’m alright jacks in Scotland but they’re getting a rude awakening now.

  150. Inverclyder says:

    Meanwhile in other news…

    Heathrow airport has dismissed claims by the government agency in charge of London transport that more than £18bn would have to be spent on improving travel links if its third runway received the go-ahead.

    Let that sink in for a minute. £18bn!

    You can expect the Scottish Budget to be cut to pay for it no doubt.

  151. Robert Graham says:

    Just read the wee black book again and it is just as depressing as the first time i read it , i was hoping it was a work of fiction by some deluded fool , but there in Black & White the full well, not quite they haven’t finished with us yet, the horror story that was predicted continues ,happy you voted “NO” now yah f/n brainless cowards .Bitter yah think I havent even started . Show yer arse at my door Labour and you’re in the bin or any handy receptacle that holds rubbish.

  152. Iain More says:


    “Where to start. That Frigate Factory for your NO’s a new one. Its been going for a long time, tipping up their UK and sliding everything south.”

    They have always been tipping things to the south meanwhile they are also, the same Brit Nats are, outsourcing anything they can get their hands on, outsourcing it to India and the Philippines etc.

    I was in Cebu Philippines a few years back for a friends wedding and most of the girls at the wedding the brides mates worked in a call centre on the night shifts for piss wages. They were quiet familiar with my North East Scots accent if not dialect as they were quite often dealing with us loons and quines over the phone.

  153. NeoconNat says:

    Thanks Ronnie. I’ve been riding it for years tho…

    Just to sum up where we are as a movement right now;

    1) the Loony Left lost us the 2014 independence referendum by scaring people with jobs.

    2) the Loony Left have been conned into splitting the vote in this coming election and may very well prevent us from getting another bite at the indy-cherry.

    3) the Loony Left ruined the 1970s.

    4) Karl Marx is dead.

    That’s 4 good reasons for us to move on.

    In future when we form a crowd we ought to pay more attention to the morons who jump to the front of it looking for attention. Lesson learned.

  154. Onwards says:

    Re the Clyde Jobs.
    It’s a total joke. Listening to all the weasel words, we can see exactly what’s happening. It’s like saying the Vow was delivered, after watering it down as much as possible.

    Sure – the remaining 8 ships will be ‘assembled’ on the Clyde, but with major sections built elsewhere, and the timetable spun out over a longer time. So the workforce will likely drop below 2000. Down from 25,000 since 1980.

    I think Cameron can see the writing on the wall to be honest. No wonder he says in private he doesn’t care about Scotland.

    Anyone still voting Tory here must be some kind of masochist.
    It’s like bashing yourself over the head with a shitty stick.

  155. I`m sure the proven liar Carmichael said before the Ref that there was going to be 13 not 8 frigates built in Scotland if we voted to stay under the English Yoke.

    English Labour MP John Woodcock has a real hatred of all things Scottish,

    he called our MP`s in HoC Robots,

    “if the hon. Gentleman does not mind, I am not giving way. I would have been happy to take an intervention from every single one of you robots”

  156. Fred says:

    Post Dugdale, Slab’s all set for an Anus Mirabilis!

  157. galamcennalath says:

    Dunks says:

    “No such thing as Scottish Labour”

    Aye, now there isn’t. But once upon a time there was ….

    …. I can remember being quite excited about it. Knowing now what Jim Sillars can be like, no wonder it didn’t last. Alex Neil went on to greater things, of course. 🙂

  158. Joemcg says:

    Gary tank-kezia is actually quite funny! On Willie Rennie “I’m not a big fan of willie!” Nice one!

  159. Big Jock says:

    It’s amazing how the Yoons can see so far into the future. We Wullie winkle says there would be no ship building in an independent Scotland.

    So Wullie is this based on fact,wishful thinking or can you really predict the future of a new country.

    The same Yoons that said shipbuilding would be saved by voting no. They made guarantees on behalf of a government yet to be elected!

    Except they got that one wrong didn’t they. If wee Wullie told me it was nighttime. I would run to the window to make sure.

  160. Free Scotland says:


    Not a big fan of willie, more of a trident stroker.

  161. Cactus says:

    Clarity and certainty, made me think of:

    Ebony and Ivory (good music video)

    Side by side on my piano..

  162. heedtracker says:

    NeoconNat says:

    1) the Loony Left lost us the 2014 independence referendum by scaring people with jobs.

    is really hopeless agent provocateuring now.

    Actually you’re a hopeless agent provocateur anyway. Labour happily UKOKed it 2014 with the tory party but they’re certainly not left or loony. Its red tory for pretty stark reasons.

    You make it look like the web is a difficult place to be a good agent provocateur but you’re probably just a hack amateur, hopefully.

    This one’s far better. Frankly.

  163. Free Scotland says:

    Wee Wullie Winkle should quit talkin’ aboot complicated stuff like economics and shipbuildin’ and stick to what he’s good at – slidin’ doon chutes and prancin’ aboot like a sozzled pixie.

  164. Big Jock says:

    Have you noticed the three unionist parties are still in full on no campaign mode. When something bad happens at a UK level they all relate it to indi and Snp bad.

    They are effectively one North British party. Get the message out its always Holyroods fault or Sturgeon or Spinney.

    Remember the days when the libs and Labs criticised London and stood up for the country they were elected to serve. Seems there now elected to represent London in Scotland.

  165. Andrew Mclean says:

    10 days before an election and the main opposition party still haven’t got a clue what to put in their manifesto, we will get it to late they think to pull it to shreds. Idiots

  166. Balaaargh says:

    Why are they waiting so long to publish their manifesto?

    Is it because if they publish it any sooner, they’ll have changed their mind again before the election?

  167. Thepnr says:

    Never mind Labour. They Never mind us.

    Kezia, hud you wheest, just getting embarrassing now.

  168. boris says:

    Grouse Beater’s post List of SNP government achievements and it a long one. Circulate widely. Tell all your pals

  169. ian says:

    Anyone wanting a bit of inspiration watch the new Michael moore documentary “where to invade next”.When you see what happens when imagination is used by other countries to help in education,happy and contented workforces and general life conditions you realise how far behind the UK is falling.Through independence we could be following some of those examples ansd creating a better country for our kids.

  170. call me dave says:

    Nicola Sturgeon: PM can’t avoid obligation to Clyde workers

    Kezia Dugdale havering again.:

    Nicola Sturgeon has not done enough to help women in the workplace.

  171. Proud Cybernat says:

    Well who’da thunk it? Kez was a pop star in another life:

  172. Iain More says:

    Balaaargh says:
    25 April, 2016 at 11:21 pm

    “Why are they waiting so long to publish their manifesto?

    Is it because if they publish it any sooner, they’ll have changed their mind again before the election?”

    The Brit Nat Press and Media hasn’t had the time to make one up yet. It has been kind of difficult for them having to invent all those SNP BAAHD and Scotland useless stories. That has also been complicated in that they have had to firefight the SLAB/Tory/Brit Nat horror story about PFI. The double dealing over those Destroyers/Frigates has also given them a sare heid. Torcuil the Nat slayer and Co have to sleep some time.

    Well SLAB isn’t genetically programmed to think and do things for themselves. Oh and some of the Brit Nat Press and Media aren’t on the same hymn sheet either as they have been well distracted by the EU Referendum and Immigrants to fully focus on thinking up what Bribes and Vows can be offered this time around.

  173. Robert Graham says:

    Oops just past midnight and my bloody carrage and driver has bugered off and these glass slippers are a pain , oh dear trapped in fairyland Kezia OK for a lift home ? . Just watched an other fairytale in the la la land Show better known as the House of Commons Statement on the MOD contracts on the Clyde, this was bullshit of the highest order with the MPs of the Country where the work might or probably not carried out left to end after English MPs with the requisite pat comment if your lot had voted YES there would be no work on the Clyde , Oh really who promised the work to encourage the people here to vote NO it was a VOW freely given , and as easily renaged on , this was offered By all unionist party’s fronted by their bagmen the Labour Party .So what’s the f/n problem ?

  174. call me dave says:

    Constituency battlegrounds: Orkney and Shetland

    2011 result:

    Liam McArthur, LibDem – 2912 (35.7%)

    James Stockan, Ind – 2052 (25.2%)

    Donna Heddle, SNP – 2044 (25.1%)

    Jamie Halcro Johnston, Con – 686 (8.4%)

    William Sharkey, Lab – 458 (5.6%)

    Majority – 860; turn out – 49.3%

  175. I truly have never been more convinced why we need to vote SNPx2 at the next Scottish Parliamentary Elections. We need to to rid ourselves of theses people.

  176. Clootie says:


    Orkney and Shetland are two different seats at Holyrood.

    Tavish Scott had 50 percent of the Shetland vote in 2011 and the SNP came 3rd with 12percent.
    Liam represents Orkney and has a very strong local support. Trying to read swings in such a tight community is very different from “mainland” seats”.

    It all comes down to the strength of these personal votes and the impact of the Carmichael story.
    It’s their vote that will hold up and not the LibDem vote.

  177. Macart says:

    Y’know, it strange all this enmity toward the SNP from other parties. Its uniformity isn’t natural, but it is universal. I’ve heard any number of supporters and indeed SNP luminaries speak with at very least respect and in some cases genuine fondness of individuals historic and recent within the other parties. Uniquely though, I cannot recall any member of any other party speak with anything other than extreme hostility when discussing either the SNP their policies or their significant figures.

    THAT is just how air tight the unionist narrative is. No word of praise or respect for policy or individual can EVER be allowed regardless of how well deserved it may be. No word of commonality or empathy. No word of personal approval between individuals for their stands on issues or simple personal fondness between peers in a profession.

    That is not simply uncommon. Its unnatural.

    It is a telltale signature though of the nature of the unionist narrative. To dehumanize, other, marginalize and ultimately isolate. It makes it easier, I suppose, to do what they do both in the press and society in general. The things they say, the damage they wreak and the cost to the public and communities? Well that becomes acceptable.

    Ask the folk in the north east, Clydeside, Dundee, Cumbernauld, East Kilbride in the past year or so. The blind unreasoning hatred engendered by tribal party politics, its narrative, the language used, how our politicians and political class simply ply their trade on a day to day basis has had a devastating effect on the wider community.

    It needs to change. The SYSTEM NEEDS to change and the inter party hatred needs to be excised from our politics. The cost to the people it is meant to serve has become too high.

  178. Dorothy Devine says:

    Proud Cybernat , how dare you insult the wonderful Mamma Cass! – good to be reminded of both , lovely song and wish some folk would leave on a jet plane NEVER to return!

    Is there some hideous illness affecting Mr Taylor of BBBC fame? He seems to grow and grow and grow, while the wicked witch of the west seems to shrink and shrink and shrink.

    P.S Has anyone been invited to Moanin’ Minnie’s dream dinner party?
    The Herald appears to want to insult its remaining readership with OK and Hello articles and to shoehorn in the Moanin’ one at every opportunity.Death Wish 2016!

  179. HaggisHunter says:

    She’s confused, must be going for the sympathy vote.

    Nothing is from her heart or head, her branch office have no views, but represent their London master’s (British establishment’s) foreign policy in Scotland.

  180. NeoconNat says:

    Heedtracker: “Labour happily UKOKed it 2014 with the tory party but they’re certainly not left or loony. Its red tory for pretty stark reasons.”

    So you are saying the unionists won the argument. I’m saying the reason we lost it is because the Independence movement became synonymous with the Socialist Worker’s Party and it’s desire to make Scotland a communist republic.

    Instead of blaming pensioners and Yoons, who don’t you all act like adults for 5 seconds and consider the many hundreds of thousands of working people who looked at the radical left stuff and thought “efff that”. The statistics reveal exactly that.

    If Project Fear won the referendum, Project Cuba lost it.

    Had the debate and movement been kept more apolitical with emphasis given to issues of democracy and responsibility for managing our own affairs, we would have won easily. Instead of scaring the life out of half the electorate we should have been reassuring them.

  181. Almannysbunnet says:

    Why are they waiting so long to publish their manifesto?

    Time for labour to read all the others, cherry pick and promise more. Like playing poker, I see your NHS policy and raise it by 1000 nurses.

    It will give the BBC an excuse (as if they need one) to have the wondrous Kez on TV and talk about nothing but labour in the last days of the election. If you’re a BBC viewer you won’t actually notice any difference.

    Corbyn has been too busy to proof read and approve?

    The printer has demanded the money up front?

  182. Almannysbunnet says:

    People will be under no illusion as to what the Labour Party’s about under my leadership.”

    I think the people know what it’s about. It’s about to disappear under her leadership although she can’t take all the credit. It was in pretty bad shape when Murphy sneaked out the door to join the ex labour leader’s conga line. Hear the music Kez?

    And as you do the conga, you make the party stronger.
    Make the train much longer and do the labour conga.

  183. Ken500 says:

    An Independent is stopping SNP chances in Orkney and Shetland.

    The Westminster Unionist are a bunch of second rate low lives. Woodcock is a creep. DUP votes have stopped immigrant children being helped. They are despicable. Northern Ireland (2million) raises £28Billion in taxes and gets £14Billion (50%) = £42Billion but will no help children. Westminster has caused the biggest migrant crisis since 11WW.

    Scotland could be building vessels. Norway builds 100 vessels a year. Westminster is wasting £Billions from Scotland. £1/2Billion on Trident and £4Billion on repayments Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. The Tories have tried to ruin the Oil sector with 60/80% taxes when prices had fallen 75%. It is still 40%. UK H & S rules not being followed with no Inquiry.

    Westminster promises are always broken. Never trust a Tory. Thatcher illegally and secretly took the equivalent of £Billion out of Scotland. Vote NO you get nothing. Some people never learn.

    Scotland could be one of the most prosperous, equal and fairer countries in the world.

    Vote SNP x 2 Vote FFA/Independence.

  184. Ken500 says:

    The Unionists lied to win the Referendum. Cameron doesn’t care. Labour destroyed it’s Party. Vote SNP x 2

  185. Capella says:

    @ Nana – re the people in Leslie, Fife, telling voters it is illegal to vote SNP in both votes. That, I believe, is illegal under the Representation of the People Act, and if they are prepared to testify, a complaint should be made.

    The person who tweeted it may be best placed to do that.

  186. Muscleguy says:

    Be fair Rev, with their falling membership and fewer elected members etc along with modern electronic communication thingies nobody sends them any letters anymore and they’ve all given up smoking and the vaping oil boxes are too small. So what are they to work the manifesto up on the back of?

    I can just see them in central office waiting with bated breath every day for the postie to come, heads brimming with good ideas only for them to evaporate and turn sour with all the waiting.

  187. Macart says:


    “Why are they waiting so long to publish their manifesto?”

    If I had to guess?

    Several reasons spring to mind.

    1. Their stated policy intent has suffered so many public reversals and public scrutiny that a cohesive paper is almost redundant.
    2. Cherry picking as per your first post


    3. It reduces the time opponents and voters have to properly scrutinise and deconstruct before the ballot.

    In short the party, its ability to construct policy and or be considered fit to govern is a weapons grade cluster….. fudge.

  188. starlaw says:

    Labour manifesto will be a load of garbage about Horror things SNP are planning and how Labour will stop them. Project fear lead by BBC will swing into action all the way to the election. That’s all they have left!

  189. call me dave says:

    McWhirter speculates…. Toaster for Dugdale?

  190. Breeks says:

    Why so late with the manifesto?

    Attention span. After a few days they forget what’s in it.

  191. galamcennalath says:

    Seems really odd to allow postal voting to begin before all manifestos are available to peruse!

  192. Grouse Beater says:

    The reason Labour’s Scottish manifesto is late, is because it’s getting printed in China.

  193. winifred mccartney says:

    Kez deserves everything that is coming to her – first she insults her father and now Nicola Sturgeon-the person a few weeks ago she was saying was so helpful to her when she first went into parliament as a researcher. Jealousy is a terrible thing and papers like the herald are colluding with labour to make salacious headlines. Even with MSM and BBC on their side labour are finished and they deserve to be wiped out completely-they have nothing left to offer but bitterness and anger – all their failures are coming home to roost – schools, corruption,shipyards. Trying to turn manifesto launch in community centre as a deliberate idea to keep it simple and not presidential – what a joke.
    SNP X 2 we must not let the vote be split.

  194. Andrew McLean says:

    Compare and contrast, The State Broadcaster output this morning to its Scottish colony.

    Doctors Strike, one government spokesman saying Doctors Bad, ENHS spokesperson saying it’s ok we’ve got it covered. Move along quickly to open the vents in your house because your smelly air this morning is all the news that matters.

    OMG turning over to Head office output that is BBC 4, they were going ape-shit over the first all out strike in the HISTORY OF THE NHS, good allowance of airtime for junior doctors who are pleading with people that this government and health secretary are bonkers insane, a softly softly interview with said bonkers health secretary, but the interviewer putting the proposition he is the problem and should really think about taking the heat out by standing aside, unfortunately his big massive ego tells him he is the only one on the planet to save the ENHS, then says unbelievably the doctors are killing children.

    Switch back to the state propaganda outlet in Scotlandshire GMS, and some labour guy telling a story how all health services in Paisley are to be closed down by the SNP BAD, and wait for it because a lot of labour guys wrote it down , in writing, using words and paper and everything then LEAKED it to other LABOUR MSPs, therefore as a leak it becomes the word of god, delivered from the almighty on high to his chosen representatives on earth the Labour party branch office. BAD SNP.

    Where is that wee woman who normally says Scottish NHS bad? I hope she isn’t in hospital, I always think twice about complaining of bad food in a restaurant, I wouldn’t like to be her, prone in bed with matron and a very large needle!

    A question, when appointing the new political commissar for the Scottish division did the State Broadcaster really have to hire the rotting corpse of Margaret Thatcher.

    PS, I hear the reason the Labour manifesto can’t be printed is because every time its proof read the printer turns into to a zombie and starts eating people, the result is the printing press in now surrounded by the army and in quarantine. Kezia has said “well it didn’t affect me” as she pulled the skin from her face revealing the insanely rotten , parrot faced former leader, Jim “CeltiK” Murphy!

    Scotland you have been warned, stop the zombie menace take two SNP and you will be immunized!

  195. Andrew McLean says:

    Labour manifesto launch in community centre, I hope its a very small one!

  196. gus1940 says:


  197. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Muscleguy As ah E Cig vapour smoker Kesia cloud buy them aw they big whore of ah rocket launcher Vapour cig an blaw smoke signals tae get they,re minifesto oot,

    ach you uased the word Evaporate, am gon oot tae find ah fag packet in ah litter bin,ah might be some time .

  198. Andrew McLean says:

    I honestly am pissed of the new labour manifesto is saying free sweets and ginger, abolish all tax, and we are all going to live on the moon! bugger I have already voted and feel cheated, who do i complaint to?
    Actually as people have and are this morning voting, what are they voting for? or is Labour going to point to the postal votes and say, look we have a idiot as a mascot and you still you voted Labour.
    Hypothetical, but say the manifesto said something you really found abhorrent or offensive, say for personal or religious grounds? how could you complain, you voted!
    Labour, an insult to the democratic process!
    I can’t wait for the absolute bullshit to appear, in fact if anyone doesn’t want theirs, my roses are needing some fertiliser .

  199. chasanderson200 says:

    Grouse Beater 9:17
    Be as well to print it in Chinese as well for all the sense it will make to the average voter. ( Apologies to my Chinese pals- no slight intended)

  200. G H Graham says:

    Free “Top Tip” for Labour’s north British branch office, Strategy Department …

    Probably best if your manifesto is published BEFORE postal votes have already been disbursed & sent back to their constituency’s Returning Officer.

    Otherwise, millions of Scots will be kicking themselves they didn’t see it sooner.

    Actually, I just looked on line & there’s no need to worry. Looks like you have everything covered.

    (No laughing at the back!)

  201. Free Scotland says:

    Kezia is the perfect personification of what labour does best: cluelessness.

  202. Big Jock says:

    Winifred – Kes insults the majority of voters in Scotland on a daily basis. The majority over 50% of Scotland vote SNP, and she berates them and calls us English hating and delusional.

    That’s why Slabour are in such a mess. They are not just attacking the SNP or the Yes movement. They are attacking the majority of Scotland. When you go down that road as a politician people put two fingers up at you.

    You don’t win votes with insults. Something Nicola and the SNP understand very clearly.

  203. winifred mccartney says:

    Labour manifesto in Community Centre – be glad – next time its a telephone box and manifesto written on a post-it. They have bitten/betrayed the hand that fed them too often and they still don’t get it. Blame the tories for shipbuilders blame contractors for schools and blame the snp for everything = manifesto

    SNP x 2

  204. crazycat says:

    @ Ken500 at 8.27

    DUP votes have stopped immigrant children being helped. They are despicable.

    This is not true.
    The 2 (out of 8) DUP MPs who voted on the Immigration Bill voted against the government.

    They also fairly frequently voted against the government in the 2010-15 parliament. I was surprised when I first discovered this, but I think they should not be misrepresented.

  205. heedtracker says:

    For not the first time, maybe we overestimate the IQ of unionist SLab-

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 2h2 hours ago
    From Nicola Sturgeon down, everyone in the SNP appears to be more willing to chat about opinion polls than discuss their dull manifesto.

  206. heedtracker says:

    IQ of hard core unionist SLab testing-

    What are we supposed to postal vote for SLabour on?

    Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall Apr 25
    If like me you’ve been a little busy recently and haven’t yet sent in your postal vote, do it soon! #BothVotesLabour

    or head out on the hustings for Fab candidates on?

    Does Fab mean Fabricated, fabricated everything?

    Duncan Hothersall Retweeted
    Monica Lennon ?@MonicaLennon7 17h17 hours ago
    Action-packed day in Edinburgh; glad to finally put in a shift for our fab candidate @D_G_Johnson #BothVotesLabour

  207. Valerie says:

    Gov’t source says Junior Doctors are trying to topple the government, according to the Beebe.

    Woo hoo, go for it, you crazy insurgents. You will be doing the country a huge favour.

    As if! Those out with this country are now experiencing the bullhorn of Tory, demonizing anyone who questions, or objects.

    They were warned, and we were called whinging jocks.

  208. Free Scotland says:

    @G H Graham at 10:05

    Thanks for that link. For anyone who missed it, here is the early online release of labour’s manifesto. Definitely worth printing out. Gives real insight into what’s going on in their heads.

  209. Robert Kerr says:

    Further to MacWhirter’s piece archived upthread.

    I am minded to tell my SLAB drinking buddy that I shall vote SNP for constituency and TORY for list.

    Am I an evil cybernat?

    Or just a “Blut und Boden” Nat?

    Running out of popcorn but have plenty good malt.


  210. Clootie says:

    …I know it has been said many times but worth repeating. There is no such thing as a Scottish Labour Party. If anyone can show me the registration of such a party I will apologise. Yet the media continue to discuss the launch of “The Scottish Labour Party Manifesto”.

    At present we are in the UK and ruled by Westminster. Labour remains a UK Party. Change such as Trident and other retained powers can only be actioned by a Westminster vote. It is illegal to canvas offering the voting public two options/policies at a General election. Labour (ALL Labour members in Scotland) must accept that the Defence, Foreign policy and Fiscal policies etc of the “Party”. A candidate, branch or CA cannot state or offer an alternative different from the Party.

    The “Dugdale manifesto” can only offer statements of intent regarding the very limited devolved powers. However Dugdale and Co.,aided by a willing press, will distort this truth.

    The Labour Party has branches in Scotland but no matter how many wish to change it issues such as Trident etc are beyond the influence of Labour Party members in Scotland except via a vote at National(UK) level policy forums. Their contribution to such a vote will be much lower than 10percent of the overall membership.

    I hope Labour Party members can acknowledge that their influence over the majority of issues impacting on their lives is restricted to ONE union flag jacket wearing MP.

  211. galamcennalath says:

    I was thinking that it is strange that we are a week away from the election and very little seems to be happening.

    Alternatively, the colonial media might be busy but I am now completely blind and deaf to their output!

    Perhaps it’s not just my perception. Stories which should be big, like the PFI failures and the shipyard jobs, are being played down because the are Union-negative. Similarly, non Scottish stories like the English NHS crisis are also being played down here because perhaps they too show the negative side of WM,

    Is it really so quiet?

  212. Ken500 says:

    There are 14 Sine Fien MP’s if they went to Westminster the Tories would only have 2 of a majority. They could be defeated.

  213. Ken500 says:

    McWhirter chops and changes as much as Labour

  214. heedtracker says:

    Perhaps it’s not just my perception. Stories which should be big, like the PFI failures and the shipyard jobs, are being played down because the are Union-negative.

    Just follow the SLabour money. Blair’s as good a UKOK news outlet as all the rest, SNP bad, election, what election?

    They are a very odd crew though.

  215. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Kerr says:

    “I am minded to tell my SLAB drinking buddy that I shall vote SNP for constituency and TORY for list.”

    Not as far fetched as it might seem. The horrendous STV system for local councils allows second, third choice etc..

    Accordingly, votes can be allocated to a voter’s non-first choice.

    In 2012 SNP first preference voters were ‘moved’ to ….

    44.2% non transferable
    6.0% to Conservative
    18.1% to Labour
    17.8% to Independent/Other
    14.1% to LibDem

    … quite surprising how many SNP voters, in the context of STV in 2012 for councils, are will to give lower preferences to Unionist parties.

    I guess this is far less likely to be the pattern in 2017.

  216. Big Jock says:

    I think Slabour should launch their Manifesto at midnight on the 5th May. That way at least voters will know it’s the final draft. Launching it before the day would be subject to ongoing editorial change.

    Now which way was the wind blowing on Tuesday again……….

  217. crazycat says:

    @ Ken500 at 10.34

    There are 14 Sine Fien MP’s if they went to Westminster the Tories would only have 2 of a majority. They could be defeated.

    Again, not true.
    There are four Sinn Féin MPs. Their presence would not reduce the Tories’ majority to 2.

  218. Tamthebam says:

    It’s a roch wind here the day as oor Labour neighbours UJ appears a bittie weet and kinday like hingin at hauf mast.

    Mibbee eftir the morn he’ll finally pit it awa in the attic.

  219. Thepnr says:

    @G H Graham @Free Scotland 🙂 🙂 🙂

  220. Big Jock says:

    Cameron – The Yoons are so internally angry that the rest of Scotland has voted SNP. They are blinded by red mist and antagonism. They call themselves democrats but they behave in the opposite way.

    When they stole the referendum by fear , bullying and intimidation. They thought that was it, they had beaten Scotland back into it’s corner.

    Then the revolution happened and people sacked all their MP’s and cronies. They cannot come to terms with this still!

    The fact that the Yes movement is stronger than ever and we stand up to them. Confounds them to the point, where they just lash out at anyone vaguely Scottish. They have become more British, if that’s possible. They were comfortable being Scottish, before it meant actually being a nation and not a sub dom of GB.

    The JK Rowlings of this world want a Euro Disney version of Scotland. Highland glens, sheep and tartan and jokey locals.

    They will never come to terms with this until we actually get independence. External circumstance will force them to change as internally they are just bitter and arrogant.

  221. One_Scot says:

    Great post Big Jock. It’s funny but since the referendum I have not read or watched any Yoon politicised news programmes. In a way, since I voted for Scotland to be Independent, the UK as far as I am concerned no longer exists.

    And I am sure many many more people in Scotland now think like this. As you say, the door has been opened and nothing can now stop us from walking through it.

  222. CameronB Brodie says:

    Big Jock
    I see you are familiar with Lifton’s work. 😉

    This work has become a classic text in the field and continues to serve as a fundamental guide in the debriefing of former cult members. Lifton’s famous eight criteria for thought control are:

    Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.

    Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.

    Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.

    Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members’ “sins,” “attitudes,” and “faults” are discussed and exploited by the leaders.

    Sacred Science. The group’s doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.

    Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members’ thought processes to conform to the group’s way of thinking.

    Doctrine over person. Member’s personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.

    Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group’s ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also.

  223. Liz Rannoch says:

    @ G H Graham 10.05

    Hee Hee Hee haw haw haw! – sorry but I’m at the back.

    That’s me caught up now, can I just say, that for all the Kezia/labour stuff, I’m more bothered about Ruthie “I’ll ride anything” getting into 2nd place. Cameron sitting ‘quietly’ in the background, pulling the strings, whether he cares or not, is too close for comfort.

    Mind you, Ruth has been pretty quiet herself recently.

  224. I see Labour deputy leader and campaign director Alex Rowley has accused Nicola sturgeon of having ditched the left-wing rhetoric and of stealing Thatcher’s lines.

    Well that’s really rich coming from that Labour clown.
    maybe he believes people in Scotland have forgotten that Labour stole wholesale all of thatcher’s policies to get elected in England.

  225. Greannach says:

    Big Jock @ 1127

    I think as well that the British nationalists thought that was the end of the matter. They don’t seem to understand it was just the beginning.

  226. call me dave says:

    Michael Foot:1983 election manifesto for Labour –

    dubbed “the longest suicide note in history” after the party’s drubbing in the polls.


    Frank Field:
    Pro-EU Jeremy Corbyn is writing ‘second longest suicide note in Labour’s history’


    Deputy Deadwood’s manifesto:
    The shortest suicide note in labours History

  227. Robert Graham says:

    I watched yesterdays statement by the English health secretary in the English Parliament regarding the Junior Doctors strike today.
    He and a procession of Tory MPs denigrated and rubbished all the doctors ,more or less said the BMA were the obstacle to a settlement and all these doctors were being duped and led by the nose forced into a strike the doctors didn’t want, and this clown is the one negotiating on behalf of the government.
    Oh well done after three years of talks we have the first ever full on no cover strike in the English NHS what a master of diplomacy and tact . What i saw was this Tory regime in full flow we will crush all dissent, we will enforce our will, B/stds is too mild a word ,these people are Evil , i bet they are praying for some poor sod to die in order to force even by a change of the law their dictats , next will be cops and security in hospitals the army to break the free will of these doctors .

  228. Macart says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    And its as simple and as terrifying as that to generate a narrative and manipulate the perceptions of a populace.

    I swear, some of the yoon troops out there are convinced we eat kittens and howl at moon.

    Oh wait…. on that last one…

  229. Capella says:

    O/T re Jeremy Hunt bullying the Junior Doctors. Here’s Jonathan Pie sketch to restore the balance:

  230. CameronB Brodie says:

    And not even free-range kittens. 😉

  231. heedtracker says:

    Nothing Scotland region election today at all, rancid Graun really worried about Top Grear presenter for some reason, or

    but headlines like this

    Child refugee fight has caught public’s imagination, says peer
    Lord Dubs tables new proposal after immigration bill amendment to let 3,000 unaccompanied minors into UK defeated

    Why was there no Westminster problems about children when Labour went off to war with neocon Bush creep show, RAF bombing Iraq towns and cities, lobbing multi million quid cruise missiles into down town Baghdad etc?

    History rewritten by one of the greatest media lie machines in the world, in other words.

    Hope Cris Evans is ok though, he throws up his strawberries driving to fast in a car that costs five hundred thousand million gazillion quid, which is really great BBC telly.

  232. Nana says:


    Aye Ruth Davidson repeat what you said about the tories having changed. Go on I dare you. Children left at the mercy of god alone knows what and doctors on strike. Bloody hell what a loathsome shower…

  233. Saor Alba says:

    To any SNP supporters who are worries about the second vote for the list, James Kelly on ‘Scot Goes Pop’ has recently provided an excellent and clear example of why it is important to vote SNP X 2. The second SNP vote is not wasted and he demonstrates clearly why this is the case.

    Please visit Scot Goes Pop for his explanation.

  234. Almannysbunnet says:

    Sarah Smith Scottish editor of the BBC has just said on the daily politics show, I’m paraphrasing this bit; “Ruth Davidson is not even trying to become the first minister, her election strategy is to come in second and be a strong opposition to the SNP”.

    She then said and I am not paraphrasing this bit, “WE would never do that”.

    Unbiased BBC my arse!

  235. call me dave says:

    Salmond being accused of ‘making hay’ over the junior doctors dispute on daily politics by Scottish NHS trying to recruit them.

    Salmond been on the picket lines down Sarf!

    Just told them on live tv that the SNHS is doing a better job of meeting it’s targets etc etc. We knew that 🙂

    Ken Clarke subdued…

    Oh wait more Scottish fun.
    Nicola’s poster (Thatcher) and her 50p tax pledge broken..?

    Ruthie rides buffalo and that’s all.

    Kezia and her tax increase for ?? I forget , there has been so many promises.

    Wee Wullie: No usin awe they powers ye ken!

    Harvie: More tax 60p

    Various talking heads, one moving Sarf if more tax.

    Now Sarah Smith in Scotland has her piece.
    Repeat burping it’s all for 2nd place.
    If Deadwood comes 3rd maybe toast.

    Good old auntie. 🙂 It’s the news for them darn Sarf where we are.

    Salmond now asked about the 50p tax not being used
    Education cuts to colleges etc
    Still using council tax and SNP bad.

    Salmond corrects their mistakes. Tearing them a new one under constant interruptions… a rammy now!

    Worth a watch later on iplayer.

  236. Macart says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    In my defence, its only during certain phases of the moon.

  237. Nana says:

    @call me dave

    Alex in fine form. Wonder if Coburn related to the ukipper by any chance?

  238. Les Wilson says:

    Just wait for a statement by some anonymous Tory source that the Doctor strike shows the need for more privatisation of the NHS.

    Don’t say that will not happen, money is their god, and that is a big opportunity for them.

  239. ScottishPsyche says:

    I loathe Jo Coburn.

    Alex Salmond doing a great job in slapping down the distortion promoted by her and the Daily politics crew.

    At last the rubbish about college places is being challenged.

  240. call me dave says:

    Well done Mr Salmond.

    Aye they don’t like the truth they can’t handle the truth.

    Oh wait… For the BBC shortbread and darn Sarf too!

  241. Macart says:

    Alex Salmond givin’ it some stick.

    Excellent. 🙂

  242. Ken500 says:

    Sine Fein list wrong list – Dail Eireann

    UK MP’s further down

    29 for NI Assembly.

  243. Dan Huil says:

    Alex Salmond fights britnat bbc hypocrisy – and wins. The bbc britnats don’t like it up ’em!

  244. Clootie says:

    …for those with any doubts about BBC bias then watch today’s Daily Politics programme.
    Questions converted into a political speech of SNPbad.

  245. Dorothy Devine says:

    Nana, the link to the daily Politics and that awful Coburn woman , started fine but has now lost sound – is it me or them?

  246. Almannysbunnet says:

    Did Jo Coburn really just try and take on Eck on the daily politics show. Silly lassie. Alex cuts through the bullshit like no other. You make us proud min.

  247. Nana says:

    Dorothy just checked and it’s working fine for me right now.

  248. call me dave says:

    Labour candidate claims party is ignoring 30% who voted Yes

  249. K1 says:

    Dorothy the video sound maybe off on the clip Nana posted just click the icon on the vid itself and you’ll hear it 😉

  250. call me dave says:

    Ruthie dismounts yesterdays big buffalo and is today, I kid you not, into ‘bunny rabbits’ as a trigger for independence 2. 🙂

    Off to get some garlic…it’s not for the Unionist leafleters, it’s for the sauce I’m making. I may get some red wine too.

    It’s yonks since I had rabbit stew or hare in a jug hmmm?

    Used to fight my brother for the kidneys until I discovered lettuce and spring onions were good for you.

  251. Almannysbunnet says:

    It’s not often you see Alex lost for words. Frank Field, a labour politician for 37 years, has just said Scotland is another country and he believes it will be independent.
    Alex looked happily gobsmacked.

  252. Lollysmum says:

    Dorothy-working fine for me too

  253. heedtracker says:

    Coburn’s just one more tory BBC propagandist, selected by the great Ligger Neil himself no doubt. Ligger on Sunday is always team tagged with cluster fcuk of hard core conservative hacks, from FT to the Graun, currently all piling in with toryboy world’s war on public health care for example.

    If it is an SNP Holyrood May 6, Scottish government will have a clear mandate to begin to deliver a BBC Scotland that is not owned by highly paid red and blue tory yoons.

    It is fundamentally anti democratic for Scotland to have this kind of BBC yoonster tory bias. Yes I know how ridiculously naive I am.

  254. Onwards says:

    “Why are they waiting so long to publish their manifesto?”

    It’s disrespectful to voters, but part of the strategy for massive media coverage in the last week.

    I suspect there will be some headline-grabbing bribe which the media will give blanket coverage to. Perhaps even a new Daily Record Vow.

    It’s not about winning the election, it’s about holding onto a few seats and stopping the SNP from gaining a majority.

    I reckon this is why tactical voting is being pushed in an attempt to weaken the SNP regional vote. If Labour has a last minute swing, it will be too late to register in the polls.

  255. pitchfork says:

    ken, it is *Sinn Fein* (with an accent thingmy bob that I don’t know how to type)

  256. DerekM says:

    Nice to see oor Eck out kicking ass go yerself Eck.

    We should make a new position in the SNP minister for yoon ass kicking ,i vote Eck gets the job 🙂

    That daily politics is the biggest load of drivel ever,do people in England actually watch this for information ? no wonder they dont have a clue.

  257. crazycat says:

    @ pitchfork

    Holding down ctrl and alt simultaneously with the letter required : é

    works in Windows10/chrome.

    I used to have a UK/Ireland extended keyboard installed when I was using XP, but that doesn’t seem to have been updated – not that I’ve searched very hard.

    (You wouldn’t happen to be a sporting pitchfork would you?)

  258. HaggisHunter says:

    Very O/T, just got back from Berlin.
    German equivalent to Mock the Week(ish), ripping the pish out of the Brexits, Queen etc…..she had some Scottish heretics burnt as a b/day celebration.

    Showed the Brit Nats for what they are, conceited, arrogant and unaware.

    My friends said it’s a pro Scottish programme; enemy of Better Together / Royals / Lords.
    You’d be surprised what people know over there, as they have a media held in trust, it looks at all of Europe, not like Great Britain admiring themselves in a mirror with Great British this that and all the other pish.

  259. Capella says:

    O/T Craig takes the gloves off on hearing of the latest robber baron scam. Philip Green and his wife in Monaco need a third luxury yacht. “The Lionheart”.
    Too bad for the workers and pensioners of BHS. No crumbs left for them.

  260. Almannysbunnet says:

    There is a leaders debate on the BBC on the 1st May. It will be chaired by Sarah Smith.

    Sarah Smith said on Daily Politics today. “Ruth Davidson has conceded the election to the SNP and wants to come in second.” WE would never do that.”

    I know by WE she means the Labour Party. It is scandalous for the BBC to allow her to chair the debate. She is clearly biased. Every other party should object.

  261. call me dave says:

    I think Salmond and Sturgeon are some tag team. 🙂

    Sturgeon does a concerned Queenie.

  262. orri says:

    Anyone else cynical enough to think that all the fuss about a Scottish Six was the groundwork for what is effectively a partial media blockout of bad news from down south so we don’t get reminded of how much better our devolved parliament runs things with the SNP in charge?

  263. Les Wilson says:

    orri says:

    Well it happens right now, so to expand it will suit that agenda.

  264. galamcennalath says:

    Child refugees. “95,000 unaccompanied children claim asylum in Europe in 2015”. Shocking that WM refused to take 3000 last night.

  265. winifred mccartney says:

    I read somewhere that 20 labour mp’s did not vote last night for the refugees – where were they and why did they not vote. If this is correct they should be named and shamed.

  266. Macart says:


    There are other words for it and few are fit for public viewing, so I’ll settle inhuman.

    These are the same pricks who want to draft a ‘British Bill of Rights’.

  267. winifred mccartney says:

    The missing 20 labour mp’s may have been ‘paired’ for this vote but labour have not allowed pairing for other important votes -why did they allow it this time – not important enough.

  268. galamcennalath says:

    Macart says:

    “These are the same pricks who want to draft a ‘British Bill of Rights’.”

    I shudder to even imagine what a Tory’s idea of appropriate Rights might be! Damned few!

  269. Alistair Grapevine says:

    here is the rather long list of missing MPs from the child refugee debate. David Mundell
    Con (front bench) absent
    Margaret Beckett
    Derby South
    Lab (minister) absent
    Luciana Berger
    Liverpool, Wavertree
    Lab (minister) absent
    Clive Betts
    Sheffield South East
    Lab (minister) absent
    Roberta Blackman-Woods
    City of Durham
    Lab (minister) absent
    Andy Burnham
    Lab (minister) absent
    Sarah Champion
    Lab (minister) absent
    Rosie Cooper
    West Lancashire
    Lab absent
    Mary Creagh
    Lab (minister) absent
    Natascha Engel
    North East Derbyshire
    Lab (minister) absent
    Bill Esterson
    Sefton Central
    Lab (minister) absent
    Frank Field
    Lab (minister) absent
    Lindsay Hoyle
    Lab (minister) absent
    Kevan Jones
    North Durham
    Lab absent
    Ivan Lewis
    Bury South
    Lab absent
    Siobhain McDonagh
    Mitcham and Morden
    Lab (minister) absent
    Madeleine Moon
    Lab (minister) absent
    Albert Owen
    Ynys Môn
    Lab (minister) absent
    Steve Rotheram
    Liverpool, Walton
    Lab absent
    Tulip Siddiq
    Hampstead and Kilburn
    Lab absent
    Ruth Smeeth
    Stoke-on-Trent North
    Lab (minister) absent
    John Spellar
    Lab (minister) absent
    Karl Turner
    Kingston upon Hull East
    Lab (minister) absent
    Derek Twigg
    Lab (minister) absent
    Keith Vaz
    Leicester East
    Lab (minister) absent

  270. Hamish100 says:

    This is how the Australians and the French look after their interests. €40 billion contract.

    Wasn’t Australia a colony of England once

    In ruk it is the lack of political will that prevents ships being built aided by a load of lying rucks from Labour Tory and lib dem

  271. orri says:

    Nothing wrong with a British Bill of Rights other than the insistence that the existing laws have to be repealed first. Expect delays between losing one protection and it being reintroduced. Further expect the majority of those protections never to be reintroduced.

    Given the current JD strike in England and Wales one area of legislation that the government wants abolished is the European Working Hours Directive which boils down to a right to not be forced to work above a maximum in a given week. You can opt out of that but can withdraw that opt out at any time and it’s illegal for your employer to require that you do opt out. That’s one reason why some, though not all, on the conservative benches want us out of the EU.

    Another is the much abused right to a family life which is more the remit of the ECHR rather than strictly to do with the EU. Yes it can be used to prevent deportation but it also means that prisoners can’t be deliberately relocated beyond reasonable traveling distances from their family or denied visits as an arbitrary form of punishment. In addition I’d argue that it also means that forcing employees to accept unsociable working hours without adequate recompense is technically an abuse of the right to a family life.

    Again something the Westminster government would love to repeal without letting us know the full impact it might have on our own lives or employment rights.

  272. Ruby says:

    Ken500 says:
    26 April, 2016 at 8:27 am

    Scotland could be building vessels. Norway builds 100 vessels a year.

    Ruby replies

    The UK Gov wouldn’t want that! They want shipbuilders to be available when they want to build warships.

    Do these shipbuilders on the Clyde do anything other than build warships for the Royal Navy? Perhaps shipbuilding should be part of the military.

    It seems crazy that these shipbuilders have only one customer.
    Perhaps all these Gov contracts are preventing Clyde shipbuilding from becoming commericially viable.

  273. Dorothy Devine says:

    Thanks everybody ! I have just caught up with the great man and the awful woman!

  274. Macart says:


    The ‘British Bill of Rights’ is supported as a concept across the Tory party in or out of the EU. If however, Brexit wins? Watch how swiftly they move to replace current EU Human Rights legislation.

    I guarantee it would move far more swiftly through both houses than the Scotland Bill ever did.

  275. Tam Jardine says:

    It seems for Bercow there is zero interest in investigating the SNP’s claim that John Woodcock used unparliamentary language. Quelle surprise.

    Had the shoe been on the other foot would Bercow have dismissed a claim that an SNP MP swore at labour MPs as easily? Woodcock has denied the claim – anyone know what time this took place?

    of course it pales into insignificance compared to the vote last night but still- would love to see Woodcock pulled up

  276. Fireproofjim says:

    Thanks for the reminders to see Alex on The Daily Politics.
    A virtuoso performance.. A man at the height of his powers, but with the modesty to always remind the interviewer tha Nicola is the boss.
    Incidentally, I don’ t agree that Jo Cockburn was unfair. She put tough questions to Alex and pressed him hard but gave him time to answer and expand where necessary. I thought they were both enjoying a sparring match.

  277. Iain More says:

    Well I managed to avoid the Brit Nat Megaphone that is the Burd Show only to have my ears assaulted by Kippers in Elgin today. Is there no escape from the anti Scottish megaphones?

  278. NeoconNat says:

    Further to previous notations, I would like to submit the following supporting evidence;

    1) 53.2% of “top earners” Voted No in 2014
    2) 55.5% of “middle earners” Voted No in 2014
    3) 57.6% of “low earners” Voted No in 2014

    Quite staggering to think that the low earners given above were least likely out of the 3 groups above to vote Yes.

    What’s also staggering is the numbers involved — we can safely assume that there are a lot more “low earners” in Scotland than middle and top earners.

    A 4th category of bottom earners reflects that only 43.6% of them voted No — a lot of support for Yes amongst those with the least to lose, then.

    Add categories 1, 2, and 3 together and you are probably accounting for way over half the electorate.

    And that’s why we lost the referendum. Even low earners feared Project Cuba and the idea of building a Socialist Republic with super-high taxation and radical left intellectuals running the economy.

    All those big words and that phony-baloney ‘brotherhood of man’ crap came at a price. It scared more than half the voters away from Yes. That’s irrefutable now.

    John Curtice in his landmark study of the results ended by saying; “why women proved persistently reluctant to accept the economic case for independence will probably provide the basis for analysis and commentary for quite a while to come.”

    Is it ridiculous to suggest that women (more so than men) found all those radicals with their talk of revolutionary politics threatening, aggressive, and worrying too?

  279. Luigi says:

    The Labour manifesto is almost upon us and the media can barely contain their excitement (after ignoring the SNP manifesto last week). Wall to wall coverage tomorrow – the best thing since sliced bread, free trips to the moon for all pensioners etc. Brace yourselves. 🙁

  280. call me dave says:

    Here is that man Salmond on the politics show from the start or for the folk in a hurry start about 12mins in Jun Doctors strike and Ken Clarke followed by Mr Salmond.

    “It’s not true” Salmond umteen times…..:-)

  281. Andrew McLean says:

    Luigi says @ 4:37 “free trips to the moon” now just you hod on a minute, if you think Labour are steeling MY manifesto commitments vis-a-vis lunar expeditions you have another thing coming!

    And Ruth, stop trying to ride the rocket!


  282. Andrew McLean says:

    OK who farted!

  283. harry mcaye says:

    Fireproofjim says:
    26 April, 2016 at 4:24 pm
    Thanks for the reminders to see Alex on The Daily Politics.
    A virtuoso performance.. A man at the height of his powers, but with the modesty to always remind the interviewer tha Nicola is the boss.
    Incidentally, I don’ t agree that Jo Cockburn was unfair. She put tough questions to Alex and pressed him hard but gave him time to answer and expand where necessary. I thought they were both enjoying a sparring match.

    Agreed. Salmond was on form but he also interrupted her questioning a lot. It wasn’t one way. Good that her grasp of the facts was shown up.

  284. Dan Huil says:

    Sarah Smith chomping at the bit to deliver her party’s manifesto.

  285. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Ah see Labour’s manifesto is oot th’morra,” says ma wee ma.

    “Aye – so they say,” I replies.

    “When’s the SNP bringing theirs oot then?” asks my wee ma.

    You just gotta love BBCSLAB (aka ‘Squealer’), don’tcha.

    Don’t forget, folks – SNP BOTH VOTES

  286. Iain More says:

    My first prediction for SLAB Daily Record BBC manifesto launch.

    SLAB will use APD to build gazillions of ships on the Clyde and will still have gazillions left over for gazillions of apprenticeships and still have something left over for Bailie to play with submarines. SNP BAAHD!

  287. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve been waiting for this ’cause I have a pretty effective shit detector.

    Your attempts at blaming ‘Project Cuba’, as you call the Yes movement, rather than Better Together’s “Project Fear”, for a low support for Yes among the lowest earners, strikes me as complete bollocks.

    If anything, the official Yes campaign was as inclusive and inoffensive as possible, rather than being monster raving loony lefties.

    Still think Hegel invented dialectics, or are you simply a dissembler?

  288. ScottishPsyche says:

    I think whatever MSM having been saving up will come thick and fast tomorrow along with Slab’s manifesto.

    Slab are fighting for that core loyalist vote so it will be no holds barred.

    Expect an OBFA, Named Person, Maggie Thatcher, Oil price festival of obfuscation, misdirection and smear.

    No facts will be allowed only smear by association and hysteria.

  289. Jas says:

    They are the Nothing for Something Party.

  290. Phydaux says:

    Labour’s decision to delay their manifesto denies those who have already voted by post full access to all information pertinent to the candidates.

    The problem with postal voting is that the secrecy of the ballot is not guaranteed ( just ask Ruth Davidson ). The main change came about in 2001 when Bomber Blair allowed postal voting on demand. Up until then absent voting, by post, was restricted to those unable to vote in person…i.e. Ill health, employment reasons or being abroad.It was meant to boost turnout.

    The extremely lax rules make it more amenable to fraud and manipulation.The ballot rigging uncovered since then would ” disgrace a banana republic ” according to a High Court Judge in Birmingham in 2005 and was ” hopelessly insecure ”

    Those who have evidence of candidates lying about our right to vote twice for whomsoever we choose should summon the polis.

    Our democratic right to free speech and free elections was explicitly guaranteed in the 1689 Bill of Rights.We learned from Edward Snowden that all governments change the rules and control the media to prevent any legitimate scrutiny of their dirty secrets and lies.

    Lying is part of the Unionists’ skill set Lying is a way of controlling others or compensating for a sense of inferiority.We live in a blackmail democracy.

    We are being shouted at, harangued, verbally abused and telt how we should vote to avoid a ” one party state ” How much longer can we tolerate the fact that we do not have the media platforms we require for free and fair debate?

    SNP X 2

  291. NeoconNat says:

    CameronB, project fear only persuaded those who wanted to be persuaded. My interest is in why they wanted to be persuaded when so many of us didn’t.

    “Low earners” shouldn’t be confused with those defined as “bottom earners”, or those on benefits etc. A “low earner” family with both parents working most likely had a combined income of between £45k to £60k. A lot of people fall into that category.

    That “low earner” category typically gets hammered with tax and would most likely be ineligible for tax credits and more generous personal allowance thresholds. They’re very tax conscious, then, and it’s easy to imagine they feel over-taxed and underpaid.

    The numbers speak for themselves. Clearly the “low earners” were very much turned off by the independence argument — by all means give us your explanation. My explanation is that they felt they’d most like be asked to pay for this socialist state through taxation and didn’t fancy it.

    People here have a responsibility to address the question of why those low, middle, and high earners all rejected the independence case. Only by working that out will you avoid making the same mistake twice — we are talking about huge numbers of voters here.

    As for Hegel and Marx, I’ve studied both in some detail. I’m pretty capable on subjects like political theory and could talk endlessly about it. You are warned. I actually liked Marx’s writing style but very little else. As you over-emphasise, he stole everything.

  292. Undeadshaun says:

    NeoconNat says
    6:18 pm

    Not sure I agree with you as I fall in that category and vote yes and I’m happy for higher taxes, as are many colleagues I work with.

    I think what you said is a bit of generalisation.

    Do you have figures to back up what you are saying?

  293. Undeadshaun says:

    In reply to
    NeoconNat says
    6:18 pm

    I also,meant to add I don’t consider myself to be a “low earner” those household incomes you quoted, would be around top 3Rd or top 25%.

    Anyone on those household incomes is in no way a low earner.

  294. CameronB Brodie says:

    This is why I reckon you are up to no good. After posting reasonably for a while, you then slip in some disinformation designed to create a wedge among Yes supporters.

    I would imagine every first year philosophy student would know that dialectics was popularised by Plato’s Socratic dialogues and has been central to European thought since before antiquity.

    Sure you’re not a dissembler?

  295. Onwards says:

    Grinning idiot Willie Rennie on TV with his contrived enthusiasm. Cheesey cheese cheese.

  296. Marcia says:

    CameronB Brodie

    I now ignore all posts by that author. The forums are just like a room full of people, some people you will listen to, some not. Some people you will converse with, some not.

  297. galamcennalath says:

    This tweet makes a very serious point …

    “Not satisfied with 14 mentions of the @theSNP in last leaflet, @Ruth_E_Davidson mentions them 21 times in this one.”

    The Tory election material is full off … SNP, referendum, Ruth Davidson , but very rarely mentions the word Conservative. And, never ever mentions their activities at WM.

    Deflection tactics from a toxic brand. What a corrupted twisted shower they are!

  298. Legerwood says:

    Just listened to Mr Rennie totally lie about Scotlands performance in maths. He said that under the SNP Scotland’s performance in maths had dropped and quoted the OECD report (Dec 2015) as his source.

    This is not what the OECD report says. Scotland’s performance in maths as measured by the PISA surveys dropped below average in 2003 and had not recovered by 2006 – remind me who was in power then?

    This is what the OECD report says on p53

    “”How has this situation changed over recent years? The picture varies depending on the literacy area in question (Figure 2.2). Performance in the PISA surveys going back to 2003 shows that the now-average levels in Scotland in mathematics was not always thus, and it was up among the leading countries just after the turn of the millennium. The major drop took place from the high 524 in maths in Scotland in 2003 to only 506 three years later. Performance has been steady since then. Clearly, the timing of this decline cannot be attributed to the Curriculum for Excellence as it predates CfE by many years.””

    I am absolutely furious.

  299. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m caught between following your example and acting as an unofficial klaxon. I suppose I’ve done my bit. 😉

  300. Fran says:

    @ neo

    ” Only by working that out will you avoid making the same mistake twice — we are talking about huge numbers of voters here”

    Ye let slip pal, you wrote “you” instead of we. Which means your not on the same side of the independence debate that the rest of us are.

    Whats your new name going to be tomorrow?

  301. Not Convinced says:

    I suspect any clarity SLabour provide will be about their lack of certainty, and conversely if they’re providing certainty it will only be about their lack of clarity!

  302. Sassenach says:

    The highlight of the day was the “WE”, used by Sarah Smith, in her Debate promo, on the Daily Politics show. Final, conclusive, evidence of BBC bias (she, being the Beebs political editor!!).

    Let us hope this will make the BBC change her chairmanship of the debates – or, hopefully, the party leaders could make a stand ( except for Labour, of course). What a great excuse to refuse the debate with such a cast iron reason – and save another ‘five against one’ debacle. Win-win I suggest.

    Oh, and please STOP feeding the troll!

  303. Tam Jardine says:


    If slab somehow contrived to win the election (stay with me here) they certainly could not claim to have a mandate for their manifesto after it is published so long after postal voting started.

    I have no idea how any manifesto could be published after the first postal votes are sent out including the SNP’s but the overlap for the first batch of postal votes was only (I think) 2 days with the SNP manifesto.

    Had slab got in by less than the number of votes placed by post prior to Thursday (and we can expect that figure to be fairly hefty) then they would have no mandate to enact their manifesto.

    I see no reason for them publishing one now as it is doubly pointless- they won’t win AND it would not be worth the paper it is written on if sufficient numbers have not seen it before voting. There can’t be a rule that says they have to publish one otherwise it would surely state that it requires published after all but one of the postal voting releases.

    Of course the press and telly will punt it for all it is worth from Thursday until the election- they are helpful that way.

  304. Rock says:


    “It’s disrespectful to voters, but part of the strategy for massive media coverage in the last week.

    I suspect there will be some headline-grabbing bribe which the media will give blanket coverage to. Perhaps even a new Daily Record Vow.”

    Yes, that is the strategy.

  305. NeoconNat says:

    CameronB, I think you need to decide if you want to test me on political theory or challenge my theory on the referendum result. I’m happy either way.

    The term dialectics doesn’t appear in any Greek philosophy as far as I’m aware. I don’t think it appears in Marx either if you want to be really petty about it; Marx as I recall used the phrase “historical materialism” to describe and explain dynamism in history and stole the notion of telos or teleology from Aristotle.

    I’m waiting on you explaining why the 3 categories of earners I listed rejected the argument for independence. It’s a huge question. Nobody here have an answer except me?

    Undeadshaun, the study of voting and the figures were taken from the Daily Record’s breakdown which in turn was based on a Mori poll.

    On earnings I assumed those on minimum wage would be “bottom earners” and assumed “low earners” being above them were probably on 20 to 25k. You seem to be suggesting those on 20-25k should be classed as high earners? Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but I can’t imagine I’d be far out and you’d still be left with the question of why they voted no.

    All polls in terms of interpretation require that we make generalisations based on a sample, they aren’t always right but generally are. The sample size here was 2k, I think, which is a good size.

  306. CameronB Brodie says:


    Dialectic or dialectics (Greek: ??????????, dialektik?), also known as the dialectical method, is a discourse between two or more people holding different points of view about a subject but wishing to establish the truth through reasoned arguments. The term was popularized by Plato’s Socratic dialogues but the act itself has been central to European and Indian philosophy since ancient history.

    Now, kindly fuck off!

  307. Andrew Mclean says:

    Question, 1. Do you think that googling a subject, just to make yourself look clever is not bloody obvious?
    Question 2. Do you agree that the average person, who having many experiences, met many people, wouldn’t realise that there was a snake in their mist?
    Question 3. Don’t you agree that every one has a private self and a public self, and that as much as you think your motivation is hidden in the ID, you’re agenda is clear to see, by those who have eyes to see.

    Language is a wonderful thing, we display our hopes and fears with the simplest turn of phrase, we make our point and move on, but the intent remains, a personality is developed, a vision in your readers minds eye is created. As an example telegraph operations so attuned to their colleagues touch, even though it was just a series of bleeps, could tell the difference between each other and the mood they were in. Now how much more information do you think you divulge, all be it not even realising it when you write on a site like this? Little digs, little threats, little insults, all woven together with naivety, ignorance and an amazing arrogance.

    I see you.

  308. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Marcia.

    Your comment at 6.56pm reminded me of something.

    Decades ago, for some reason, I was at a party in one of the terraced houses on the seafront at Broughty Ferry.

    People were mingling… I found myself in a wee group of around half-a-dozen, blethering. One of the guys had a pronounced Irish accent – I-R-I-S-H, pronounced Irish.

    At a lull in the conversation, I asked him, “What part of Ireland are you from?” His reply?


    Over the next minute or so, he was left standing on his own…

  309. Almannysbunnet says:

    @Sassenach says:7:15 pm
    The highlight of the day was the “WE”, used by Sarah Smith,

    Hear hear! I was listening to it live and had to rewind to make sure I wasn’t hearing things. I posted about it right away. That, WE, was a clanger of a Freudian slip. I’m sure the Rev will have that wee clip saved for posterity. At the very least she should be forced to declare an interest before the “labour” debate starts on the 1st.

    Absolute disgrace really but it just adds to the evidence that BBC Scotland is a tool of the labour party. I’ve always believed the BBC fee should be voluntary, just like Sky or BT. Forcing you to pay the licence fee is a protection racket the mafia would be proud of. BBC Scotland stinks of political corruption, their days are numbered but they will attempt one last big crap on the nation before their beloved party goes under.

  310. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    RE: Sarah Smith (Labour) and the incestuous relationship between The Labour Party (Scottish Branch) and the BBC (Scottish Branch). This link is worth revisiting.

  311. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    A wee quote from the link above…

    “A friend of Wendy’s is Sarah. That is the Honourable Sarah Smith, daughter of the late John, one-time leader of the Labour Party who also found the invitation north impossible to refuse. Sarah had a lovely wedding not so long ago which she shared with her friends the Alexander twins and their father who married Sarah (as minister officiating not, well you know).

    Other guests included the great and the good (it’s a phrase okay) from the Labour Party. Sarah’s sister is the daughter-in-law of the Right Honourable the Lord George Robertson of Port Ellen, KT, GCMG, FRSA, FRSE, PC and of the Labour Party.

    Do you think he says that every time he answers the phone? Sarah’s political shows on BBC Scotland have not been well-received but that’s no reason for her not to keep trying. Go Sarah go!”

  312. Undeadshaun says:

    NeoconNat says
    7:28 pm

    No Im saying anyone on 35k or household 55k is not a low earner.

    I speak as someone in that level of household income.

    I would class that as top 25% in Scotland

    I say that as I was on a lower income earlier in life and qualified for income supplement benefits. I know what it was like to struggle with a family on a lower income. Having to be careful with shopping budget and not always being able to give children what they wanted.

    I was lucky to benefit from a university degree that helped me to where I am now.

    Not everyone is so lucky and that is why free education is so important. And helping those who need it is equally important.

    As I said many people who work with me also feel the same about taxes and independence.

    The main thing that made people undecided was currency.

    Having read up on MMT, that’s why I think having a fiat currency is very important for Scotland after independence.

  313. Andrew Mclean says:

    That George Robertson title thing reminds me how far one can travel without a shred of talent, just as long as you are prepared to turn your back on anything resembling a scruple.
    I spoke to a Dutch military attaché, during the chat he asked were in Scotland I was from, I think that’s how the conversation turned to the leadership in NATO, I jokingly said, we sent you him as we had filled the local idiot position. It was the quickest change in a mans demeanour I have ever seen. I got the district impressive he thought him an arrogant prick! Who knew!

  314. ronnie anderson says:

    @ CameronB Why are you conversing with the Particulate he doesent Matter

  315. Andrew Mclean says:

    I have a jolly good jape, what if I post using two different names then I could talk to myself!
    What do you mean it’s been done!
    I am sorry i don’t think it has,
    No you’re too late it’s been done,
    That’s rubbish.
    I know!

  316. ScottishPsyche says:

    Lots of people on Twitter demanding that people apologise and condemn other people’s opinions otherwise that makes them SNPbad or something…

  317. call me dave says:

    This story has not developed very far since it broke this afternoon when Mr Salmond was ‘disarmed’.

    ‘Scottish’ labour keeping their own counsel over a remark that 30% of labour voters in Scotland voted YES.

    Tories question Labour’s commitment to the Union after MP predicts independence

    But it’s a quiet night with only tennis if your interested. 🙁

  318. Andrew Mclean says:

    Anyhow I am glad the jury found the fans not responsible, that is the correct decision.

  319. CameronB Brodie says:

    ronnie anderson
    It’s a dirty job but someone has to do it? Maybees no. 🙂

  320. call me dave says:

    @Andrew Mclean

    Yes I agree with that. Long time coming.

    Used to go in to the ground regularly in the late 60s and early 70s with my Sheffield cousin to watch Wednesday playing.

  321. Ken500 says:

    So much has changed in education. They are not comparing like with like. Many 16 years old who would have stayed on at school are taking up good apprenticeship. Labour were means testing loans so pupils of households of average earning could not get a full loan to go to University. A reason why many working class pupils could not go to University but went to College (3 days) so they could work. College can be a way to University. HNC/HND then into 2nd year at University.

    Lifestyle changes means parents are having their children later. There are more additions needs children because of inclusion. Teachers should get additional needs training. 92% of pupils are going into further education or apprenticeships. Many teenagers are not sure what they want to do and muck about for a while and go back as mature students. Are the 20% of mature students included in the statistics?

  322. Ken500 says:

    How many income groups will be voting SNP?

    The Unionists lied to win the Referendum. Labour destroyed their Party, the Tories don’t care, LibDems are irrelevant.

  323. call me dave says:

    Waiting…waiting. Not long for the manifesto now. Geez!

    Twiddling thumbs… 🙁 Anticipation mounting. Teetum teetum!

    Which reminds me off this, 7 mins of waiting no words, some worthies waiting for the manifesto ?

    Hibs 4-0
    Livingstone 1-0
    Man C 0-0

    Off to bed!

  324. DerekM says:

    Guys you do know that is sensible Dave yes ?

    I guess the lefty liberal routine wasnt working lol

  325. Phydaux says:

    Tam Jardine

    As you helpfully pointed out, Labour’s theoretical win would be null and void in any case.Just confirms that , in theory and in practice, the Labour Party in Scotland is total utter mince.

  326. Orri says:

    My memory might be missfiring but I remember Radio Scotland were going to give Kezia a show in the run up to the last Holyrood election.

  327. ScottishPsyche says:


    I agree about the changes. The Scottish further education model was always different with really high quality technical colleges many of which went on to obtain University status.

    Blair’s target of ‘50% participation’ was never truly clarified and he was pushed as to whether it meant 50% of school leavers or what? And how did that apply to Scotland?

    Whether this policy led to the devaluing of many Tertiary Education courses courses as they tried to get bums on seats is debatable.

    The college numbers things is frustrating as I don’t know of many students unable to get places at college, in fact a substantial number get a place after they have not met Uni conditions. Students often switch between Uni and college in Scotland.

  328. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Does anyone know if the SLabbery manifesto is being properly ‘launched’ via a press conference, or are they just going to leave a copy on a park bench?

  329. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Cameron B

    “It’s a dirty job but someone has to do it? Maybees no”

    “Maybees no” right enough. The NCN troll is here simply to chuck in a few verbal grenades here and there to provoke a stushie. And then stands back and fans the flames. Ignore the fecker. Besides, he should be more concerned about where his wife is when he’s on the keyboard! She’s a looker, BTW!

  330. NeoconNat says:

    Nice conversational skills, cameronB — I guess you have a very useful degree in philosophy and were unhappy because I wasn’t sufficiently dazzled or something. I’m sure you’ll find someone else to dazzle on here. I think someone was accusing me of Googling but frankly I didn’t think the subject was worth Googling so I should maybe take that as a compliment. I studied that stuff over 20 years ago.

    undeadshaun, I appreciate that some people are relatively poor and some are relatively rich. Our system isn’t by any means perfect but it is up there with the least worst systems.

    And I won’t pretend I lie awake at night worrying about the plight of the poor in this country when, comparatively speaking, they are probably more fortunate than about 90% of the other people on the planet. That means, relatively speaking, our poor are quite well off.

    The definitions of categories of earners that I used were not constructed by me. I made the assumption that the lowest earners (defined as “bottom earners”) were probably on minimum wage. I guessed that those defined as “low earners” were probably earning more and on about 20 to 25k. Two people earning that in a household would, therefore, be on a combined income of around 50k.

    The earnings are not essential to the question that nobody on here seems able to answer except me. Here it is again;

    Q) why is it that a majority of low, middle and high earners (generally speaking) were against independence?

    It’s a simple question. Bottom earners were in favour, generally speaking. Class, as everybody knows, is one of the strongest indicators when it comes to voting behaviour. Why, then?

    I’ll assume the lack of alternative explanations represents a tacit acknowledgement that my theory is probably pretty good.

  331. Andrew McLean says:

    Only if he has had a lobotomy

  332. galamcennalath says:

    DerekM says:

    “Guys you do know that is …. ”

    Don’t forget the Angra Mainyu reincarnation. A bit of a DevoMaxer if my memory is correct.

  333. Orri says:

    The post polling quoted by the Record was notable, if you tracked it down, for the fact that it gave the wrong result as far as the referendum went. Three possible reasons for it might be..

    1) some people lied after the fact
    2) landline owners or telephone owners are not representative of Scotland as a whole.
    3) they are but the assumption that a poll restricted to Scotland is representative of the eligible electorate for the referendum is wrong.

    I remember tell of a exit poll that was meant to be closer to the result but given the scale of postal voting and the shift from No to YES over its course there has to have been a far higher Yes on the day.

    Regardless of which any decision to vote tactically based on polls restricted to within Scotland and only at the time of casting is dubious to say the least.

  334. Dorothy Devine says:

    According to the Guardian the average UK wage is 33,157 pounds – I was quite surprised , not to mention astonished.

  335. NeoconNat says:

    galamcenn…blah blah blah,

    Really interesting name, btw, just fascinating.

    Anyway, why is it that my identity is more important to you than what I am asking? If I am a troll or whatever it is you are suggesting, would the question be easier to ignore?

    You can’t fend off a stupid troll who asks a simple question like that? Pfffffffffff.

    I give up.

  336. Conan the Librarian™ says:

    “I’ll assume the lack of alternative explanations represents a tacit acknowledgement that my theory is probably pretty good.”

    Bring me another rock…

  337. ronnie anderson says:

    @ 10.23 Promises promises promises,could we git it wie ah signed Vow

  338. NeoconNat says:

    Well done, Orri. You recognised the importance of the question and gave a good answer.

    The problem is that most polling is conducted in the fashion described and if you are dismissing that methodology in this case you would need to explain why it is so often correct elsewhere.

    You seem to be suggesting that the numbers don’t add up in the post referendum polling. You’d need to be more specific with that though — which set of data in particular, across which categories?

    I think it surprises nobody to hear though that, generally speaking, those who earned more in Scottish society were the ones who were less likely to vote Yes.

    We still aren’t any closer to explaining why higher earners generally were more inclined to vote No.

  339. Thepnr says:

    Remember when we all though it was going to get a hell of a lot worse in the days before the Holyrood vote? I do, it hasn’t been though. The total absence of news is a bit of a mystery. Just same old same old, have they ran out of team or just given up?

    No idea. Maybe they are saving the best till last.

    Will it matter? Hahahahaha No chance, their goose is cooked 🙂

  340. Conan the Librarian™ says:

    @ Dorothy

    The say ‘average’ when they mean ‘median’.

  341. NeoconNat says:

    Dorothy, I guess they mean the “mean UK wage”. Mean is a pretty blunt instrument and can be skewed by outliers though — in this case that would involve exceptionally high earners.

    Also there are huge regional disparities that would skew the mean. London wages are typically pretty high compared to the RoUK.

  342. NeoconNat says:

    “The say ‘average’ when they mean ‘median’.”

    Average usually means mean actually.

  343. Proud Cybernat says:

    “The say ‘average’ when they mean ‘median’.”

    They say ‘Keverage’ when they mean ‘comedian’.

    Okay, okay – coat’s off the peg.

  344. crazycat says:

    @ Conan

    Median is one of the three types of average; the others are mean and mode.

  345. NeoconNat says:

    Conan, since you seem so smug and are so confident that you have resorted to talk of rocks, maybe you can answer my question?

    Didn’t think so.

  346. CameronB Brodie says:

    Proud Cybernat
    I’m a vile cybernat. It must be in my genes. 🙂

  347. Grouse Beater says:

    ThePnr: “The total absence of news is a bit of a mystery.”

    I think the Record is ‘hawking up a loogie’ to gob at Stuart. Dullards are under the impression he’s an ‘SNP voter’. They call him SNP scum’. The tabloids are looking for smear material to neutralise him as the election nears. Maybe tomorrow’s editions.

  348. heedtracker says:

    Conan the Librarian™ says:

    Hey Conan, what are the current penalties for trade mark abuse of Conan the Librarian™?

    Are you being bootlegged by the Chinese?

  349. Conan the Librarian™ says:

    You want another rock?

    55% of Scotland voted NO. That would mean (pun intended) that roughly that percentage of each group mentioned would have voted NO. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics… as we know from Project Fear.

  350. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Cameron B

    Vile Cybernat

    Dang!! Wish I’d grabbed that handle. But no worries–I’m sure angrymanyou aka NCN or whatever the hell he calls himself these days will snaffle it. Bugger!

  351. Conan the Librarian™ says:

    @ Heedtracker

    It comes from being copied on the old Scotsman site by a concern troll: “Advanced punctuation for good” if anyone here can remember that far back.

  352. ScottishPsyche says:

    @Thepnr and @Grousebeater

    I agree, the usual journos have been strangely quiet.Probably be going over stuff with their lawyers.

    The frothing and indignation will be at full throttle tomorrow. Of course, the SNP will be brought into it and Sturgeon will have to condemn.

  353. Loyalist says:

    Median is appropriate here because the distribution is skewed. The mean is biased upwards because of very large income. Median earnings (full time workers) was about £27,500. And 90% of the population earned less than £57,000.

  354. ronnie anderson says:

    Murray Foote,s on WoS twitter winding up the Hillsbourgh comments from Stu last year,stand by for Daily Redcoat WoS Cybernat/SNP shite tommorow

  355. Conan the Librarian™ says:

    @ Loyalist


  356. heedtracker says:

    Conan the Librarian™ says:
    26 April, 2016 at 10:57 pm
    @ Heedtracker

    It comes from being copied on the old Scotsman site by a concern troll: “Advanced punctuation for good” if anyone here can remember that far back.

    I do. Glory days.

  357. Famous15 says:

    Hagel was a pure simpleton in phenomenoligal terms and Kezia Dugdale is the dialectical mirror of his philosophy.

    As for heretical resurrection Arthur Sgargills hair is proof of Donald Trump’s merit as candidate for the Band of Hope prize for literature,

    Answer that if you dare!

  358. CameronB Brodie says:

    The government has been aiming to shift the debate on poverty from relative poverty to life chances. So is it aiming to downgrade the goal of abolishing financial poverty?

    Btw., Frank Field MP, is certainly not “one of Britain’s leading authorities on the subject”.

  359. Alba Laddie says:

    Been a tricky old day for the Establishment eh?

    First of all a strike by junior doctors who may in other circumstances be viewed (culturally at least) as part of the Tories’ core demographic vote, and it’s a strike they can’t put the police in to kettle the demonstrators and crack a few heids to break it up, nor call on the army to perform operations.

    All this fronted up by a Heath Secretary so far out of his depth he makes Dugdale look like Kissinger.

    Then we have the families of Hillsborough finally getting some kind of justice after an obscene length of time, overcoming every obstacle imaginable put in their way by these mendacious lying bastards down the years.

    How anyone continues to support this corrupt, self regarding Union is beyond me, it really is.

  360. Thepnr says:

    Don’t know bout the rest of you but I’m in a great mood.

    @ronnie anderson says:

    Murray Foote,s on WoS twitter winding up the Hillsbourgh comments from Stu last year,stand by for Daily Redcoat WoS Cybernat/SNP shite tommorow

    Seriously, they have nothing left, all the ammunition exhausted. Looking forward to the expose of the Rev tomorrow in the Record LOL.

  361. Papadox says:

    HILLSBOURGH, Eventually, against the power of the state organs, and the persistence of the people of Liverpool have outfought the Establishment to get justice. PEOPLE POWER WIN.

    NOW WHAT ABOUT CHILCOT?or is the great Brittish state going to persist with another cover up to protect the guilty.

  362. Onwards says:


    Check out this tweet from Lord Ashcroft, quoting House Speaker Paul Ryan.

    Typical example of Britain/England/UK seen as one and the same.

  363. Still Positive. says:

    Delighted about Hillsborough. As one woman said the Establishment lost and the people of Liverpool won.

    The people of Scotland will win too – although I hope it won’t take 27 years.

    SNP x 2 and EU Remain.

  364. Robert Graham says:

    Well all you folks ready for Labours long awaited fairy tale that will be promoted ad nausea from the early hours and throughout the day ,Total pish on steroids presented by the BBC in a way as to pass as News to cover their lying arses from any sort of Criticism or Question of Bias .

  365. donnywho says:

    The British state will use all its subtle and less subtle tools to deny its subjects access to the real workings of its subterfuge. He is happy to deliver justice 20, 30, 40, 50 years into the future.

    But it will fight tooth and nail, against the release of the truth when it is a valid. We mere proles, peasants and serfs don’t deserve the truth and cannot be trusted with it. For if we had it. We might actually question all we are told, the lies, the privilege, and by its nature, our exclusion from any chance to rise in the ranks, creator own wealth and God forbid, competes with our betters.

  366. NeoconNat says:

    Tautological: “55% of Scotland voted NO. That would mean (pun intended) that roughly that percentage of each group mentioned would have voted NO.”

    Actually though in the “bottom earners” category it was the reverse.

    The question I asked aims to explain why so many voted No in the 3 categories of earners I mentioned above “bottom earners”. Nobody has disputed the percentages as such.

    Still waiting on the first rock.

  367. Thepnr says:


    What a prick hahaha.

  368. CameroniB Brodie says:

    Tautological? Such linguistic gymnastics.

    I think it is meant as a calumny, unproductive, nonsensical, thought-terminating-cliche. I’m too polite to make it any clearer. 😉

  369. CameronB Brodie says:

    I could come up with a bit more of an imaginative description but something tells me that would be rash. If only we were more divine. 😉

  370. NeoconNat says:

    Thepnr, try and forget pricks for a few minutes.

    Will you answer the question: why were low, middle, and high earners less inclined to vote Yes in 2014?

    Nobody on Wings can answer except me. Actually, I think most of you know the answer but just don’t want to admit it.

    Worth pointing out that more than 55% of both middle and low earners voted No — that’s more than the national average.

  371. Onwards says:


    Going by that survey referred to, the numbers in all income groups aren’t far off the actual YES result of 45%. Could be margin of error stuff depending on the sample sizes. Indicates that a 5-6% swing is needed all round, which we already know.

    The big percentages against independence come from voters born in England, the 70+ age group, and home-owners.

    There isn’t much that can be done to persuade English voters if they are against Scottish self-government, and have an English/British identity or even a kind of colonial attitude.

    Older voters will gradually be replaced by younger voters who seem more likely to vote for independence.

    Home-owners and pensioners were targeted by the No campaign with Pensions and currency/mortgage uncertainty. It shows that Project Fear worked.

  372. Thepnr says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    No sweat Mr C. What has NCN told us? One ting was that English is not his first language. I’ve heard that before surprisingly.

    Now this guy/girl must be extremely clever at least in using English if they start a sentence with Tautological!

    Sure I looked it up. as you would. I don’t think anyone in the real world uses such words, well not on Wings. Maybe a Prof would use such words. Maybe an ordinary person would too.

    I think I’d laugh at the ordinary person also.

    “Tautologica” is laughable hahahahaha. Still a prick.

  373. Al-Stuart says:

    I’ve just received an “Election Watch 2016” leaflet through my letterbox. Never have I never seen anything like it. Has anyone else had one of these extraordinary communications?

    NOT a single mention of ‘Conservative’ on the entire front page.

    This leaflet is urging the electorate to vote for the Ruth Davidson party.

    I had to search the very small print for the election promoter on the back of this pamphlet to see which party it was.

    An incredibly strange and telling leaflet clearly trying to avoid the name of toxic Tories.

    Has anyone got a link to an example of this, so as show other folk here at WoS this highly dubious missive?

    I just wonder whether it is legal to misrepresent or to hide which political party you are trying to get people to vote for? The front page is clearly asking people to vote for the RUTH DAVIDSON PARTY, and legally there is no such organisation.

    Either this Davidson person has an ego as big as the strap-on tank turret gun she fondly straddles, or the Tories have lost the plot entirely.

    The document seems to emanate from this joint: – the offices of the Scottish Conservatives, but the font size admitting to this is so small you kind of need an Titan Themis electron microscope to read it!

  374. NeoconNat says:

    Onwards, you built my hopes up for a second, but…

    Margin of error applies to everything equally and could go in either direction. There’s no reason to suppose that margin of error was a bigger factor on the categories we are talking about (earnings) than the others and even if we did there’s no reason to suppose it would favour one argument or the other.

    It makes sense to assume the percentages are all equal across all categories, that bias if it exists would be equal too.

    I agree that the biggest percentages against indy were in the groups you mentioned, home owners and RoUK voters, but I don’t think those groups were the most important in terms of the amount of people they contained.

    I would assume that low, middle and high earners in total probably accounted for more than half the total electorate whereas RoUK voters was at most about a 10th. What percentage of the population as a whole fall into the over 70 category? I’d guess about 15% at most. The point being, compared to the ones I mentioned, these categories don’t account for that many people.

    I’m aware too that many people would have been in more than one category which seems to somewhat confuses things but it looks like that would work in my favour to me. This is where multivariate regression analysis is useful.

    All things considered, we still have the correlation between earnings and No voting to explain. It’s essentially a truism that higher earners tend to vote against left wing parties and politics. And in the case of the indyref of 2014, it seems logical to assume that’s exactly what happened; which is to say, the radical left scared the majority of earners.

  375. woosie says:


    I feel you’re being very unfair. A prick’s a useful thing!

  376. NeoconNat says:

    Thepnr, you flatter me but I’m not a professor. Tautological arguments are automatically invalid. I can’t think of another word for tautological, it’s quite a specific thing. You see politicians using tautological arguments a lot; in argument you can’t have a conclusion that is essentially identical to the premises it rests on — It sums to zero and zero isn’t an argument.

  377. CameronB Brodie says:

    Says the ordinary punter. I smell something unpleasant.

  378. Undeadshaun says:

    I’m starting to think neoconservative nat is a troll, I’m going treat him accordingly and not waste any time on his posts. This the last post that he will get a reply or mention from me.

    All I see is a bitter person trying to spread discord on this site.

    Any of us who manned stalls, talked to workmates and relatives or knocked on doors know the truth regarding support for independence..

  379. Grouse Beater says:

    Ian Brotherhood: “Does anyone know if the SLabbery manifesto is being properly ‘launched, or are they going to leave a copy on a park bench?”


    Reminds me of Herald editor, Roden, dumping provocative material on Wings – “I’ll just leave this here” as if discarding an empty fag packet on the sly.

  380. Ken500 says:

    No one blamed the fans for Hillsbourgh even at the time. People knew it was a tragic accident. The authorities behaved badly but the majority could read through the lines. Same with the miners. The majority knew it was wrong at the time. Thatcher was a disgrace but a minority voted for the Tories.

    The Tories just cause strife. The Doctors strike. Same old, same old, liars. Elected to protect the NHS. They abuse children and the vulnerable.

    Scotland will ‘calm down’. Thatcher lied and cheated. Cameron does the same. They don’t care. Labour destroyed it’s own Party. LibDems are irrelevant. SNP x 2.

    What was the nonsense about ‘peace and harmony’ Aye right.

    What is the carry on about house prices? It is just the same since the 1950’s Proportion to income. On average income. It is more accessible to buy a house now than it was then. Only the middle classes/professionals had access to mortgages. A higher % of women work and their wages are taken into consideration. Many young folk don’t want to buy a house until later. They are in education longer, have children later and travel further.

  381. Morgatron says:

    Twatalogical , more like.

  382. scotspine says:

    I don’t recall any headline banners on BBC ended knee when SNP launched their manifesto.

    Today, I go to the BBC (norther colony section) website and lo’ “Labour to launch manifesto”

    Fair and equitious as ever.

  383. Socrtes MacSporran says:

    Just before bed time last night, I finally found time to watch the Alex Salmond/Jo Coburn Daily Politics exchanges on the iplayer.

    Eck let her away with nothing, but, even when he demonstrated how the NHS Scotland A&E figures were superior to those in England. Even after he explained how the Scottish Government had put up the target to what I would say is an almost unreachable 98%, she continued to carp: “But,you failed to meet your targets”.

    No recognition of how much better Scotland is doing in England, no asking Ken Clarke why the English NHS cannot do as well as the Scottish service, just carping criticism.

    These people have no shame – SNP Baaadd is all they have.

  384. Free Scotland says:


  385. mealer says:

    Al Stuart 2.35am,
    I got that leaflet too.It seems the Conservatives are too scared to put their name on their own leaflet here in Scotland!

    Any chance of someone scanning this leaflet and sending it to the Rev? Im sure he’d find it as amusing as I did.

  386. Conan the Librarian™ says:

    “Thepnr, try and forget pricks for a few minutes.”

    Yet you seem to have a fascination with “bottom earners”…

    Which bit of “pun intended” didn’t you understand?

  387. Loyalist says:

    To answer the question that Mr Neocon has set.

    Of course it’s reasonable to expect people with higher incomes to vote against change – it’s a pretty natural implication of behavioural theories of decision-making. The challenge for the Scottish Government (and the SNP campaign over the summer) will be to frame the debate so that higher earners associate benefits with Scotland, and possible costs with the UK.

    Perhaps easier in the public sector, and private sector where there is engagement with government (HMRC + BAe are good examples to paint the UK as a potential threat).

    Also easier if it’s hard to say ‘Vote no and a Labour government will sort everything out next year.’

    I think that the positive case has to be made in terms of efficiency in managing political challenges in a small country – if only because it is often much easier to get all relevant stakeholders around one table.

    But a much more positive case can be made by demonstrating that a Scottish government will decentralise and grant communities much more authority to develop their own solutions to their own problems.

    As for the point that only the among the poor (on benefits) was there a majority for ‘Yes,’ that’s also explicable. Their choice was to vote ‘No’ to continue austerity and sanctions.

  388. Loyalist says:

    And ‘tautological’ refers (in logic) to an argument that is true given its form. More generally it involves saying the same thing twice.

    So – there was only a majority vote for independence among the poorest in society, therefore the richest did not vote for independence.

  389. galamcennalath says:

    Macart says:

    “why Spring cleaning next week is absolutely essential.

    Problem is, next week will only allow a clean out of the kitchen drawers, we need to cleanse the whole house top to bottom of the Yoonian. Kevin McKenna makes a good case that it “is now fast becoming a moral imperative.”

    We need to have IndyRef2 fairly soon IMO. I take that Kevin McKenna is of similar opinion.

    Scotland is being damaged further with every day that passes. Leave it too long and the value of evidence from the broken promises of IndyRef1 will fade with time. Also, we need that SNP absolute majority. Getting it twice will be a miracle, hoping for it three times in a row is being foolish.

  390. Conan the Librarian™ says:

    @ Macart

    Dirty stop out.

  391. Onwards says:

    Labours big campaigning issues seem to be school breakfast clubs, GP appointments within 2 days, scrapping the council tax to replace it with a renamed property tax.

    And a 50p top rate of tax for highest earners. That the Scottish Government say would lose money through avoidance.
    At least while CGT and dividends taxation remain undevolved.

    Labour were against further tax devolution

  392. frogesque says:

    Slab manifesto. Dull, insipid and uninspiring if the trailed prequels are anything to go by.

    Even squirrels or soft fluffy kittens can’t save them.

    More convinced than ever, SNP/SNP Remain.

  393. Macart says:




    Its one more room cleaned GM and yes I’d agree, the longer we take, the more damage there is to repair.

    How and ever, the timing is up to the Scottish electorate, or rather about 10% of the Scottish electorate at this point. Without a major constitutional trigger, its about how much punishment and hardship they are willing to see inflicted on themselves and the wider Scottish population.

    This percentage are open to persuasion and argument, to change. This is the percentage we simply failed to convince at first time of asking. I’d say by this point that the evidence of ‘better together’ and HMGs complete failure to live up to the bill of goods as sold, is pretty much complete.

    We need to convince them there is and always has been, a viable alternative.

  394. Ken500 says:

    If you phoned before 9am you get a same day appointment. GP’s leave appointments for emergencies. Council tax collects 15% of tax. Approx £20 a week. Those on low incomes get a rebate or don’t pay it. Higher tiers are being introduced. Most complain about councils wasting taxpayers money on grotesque non mandated projects against the majority wishes and the public interest.

    The SNP are providing more nursery provision.

  395. DerekM says:

    Sorry but McKenna is a fud and yes i did read his article in the national.

    Dont fall for yoons saying we need 60% or that if we dont win soon we will lose initiative and it will be all over,its in the interest of the yoons to have another referendum asap the longer they wait the less chance they have of winning it and they know it,hence all the yoons never stop talking about another referendum.

    They are trying to set the agenda and we cannot let them the next indy ref will be on our terms not theirs.

    Beware of yoons waving saltires and trying to say the SNP are no better than Labour and have gotten used to the perks of being in government or that they are trying to play us like Labour did.

    As i said McKenna is a fud.

  396. orri says:

    Women / Men were split 43.4% / 53.2%

    For a 1:1 ratio that’s 48.3% Yes.

    a 5:1 ratio is 45%

    So either a 3.3% margin of error or something else is wrong with those figures.

    Rough estimate of the yes vote based on Scot/rUK/Others gives about 49% Yes.

    The Record is happy to get on to the religious break down of the figures though.

    I think I mentioned at the time that the whole point seems to be to sow division.

  397. NeoconNat says:

    What a fantastic thing, Ladies and Gentlemen we done it.

    At 8.19 AM today GMT a collision was recorded in the Wings Particle Accelerator and it seems to confirm our theory to be correct and corroborate with results of previous experimentations.

    Loyalist: “Of course it’s reasonable to expect people with higher incomes to vote against change – it’s a pretty natural implication of behavioural theories of decision-making.”

    Having tested and proven the theory to be good, then, it’s time to look in more detail at the implications.

    Given that higher earners, as Loyalist points out, are inclined to vote against change, we must ask what the consequences of the radical left being at the forefront of the Independence movement might have been.

    It’s worth pointing out that it wasn’t just “high earners” that opposed independence in the majority — “low earners” and “middle earners’ opposed it too (the data suggests a higher percentage of “low earners” were against change in this case and statistically speaking that’s quite odd [I’ll concede there may be room for a conspiracy theory there]).

    Basically, though, all earners except those in the very lowest earning category, “bottom earners”, were resistant to Yes.

    Clearly those at the very bottom of the earnings pile felt they had little to lose — heart goes out to them and all that — whilst every other class of worker and taxpayer believed a Yes victory would have negative consequences.

    More experimentation required, but I think we see where this is going…

  398. NeoconNat says:

    Orri: “So either a 3.3% margin of error or something else is wrong with those figures.”

    Orri, I’d mark you down for that. Red pen time.

    Nobody here or anywhere is disputing that more women voted No as a % than men, right? And actually we detected that years before the referendum took place. It was predictable, predicted, and corroborated with the results. Hard to argue with a premise when it tests positive like that.

    We don’t have exact figures for variance but there’s no scientific reason to assume that one sample is better than another, as you seem to be implying. Are you suggesting the Daily Record manipulated the data or was in some sort of conspiracy with Mori to exaggerate the results?

  399. Fred says:

    McKenna looks as if he has a shoplifted chicken up his juke!

    Is Ruth’s doon-turned mooth the result of a lifetime’s disappointments?

  400. Big Jock says:

    Just keep on blaming the electorate, a winning strategy.

    Winning a pocketful of loyalists by slagging off the Saltire will only give you 1%!

  401. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ll just leave this here, in the hope that those who would remove all social support from the able bodied, might learn how appealingly ignorant such an outlook is. Inhuman and short-sighted, in the extreme. Perfect for all reactionary Tories, I suppose.

  402. CameronB Brodie says:

    appallingly 🙂

  403. orri says:

    NCN ,

    fuck right off and die.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top