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Wings Over Scotland


By gaslight

Posted on August 29, 2020 by

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    1. 29 08 20 08:56

      By gaslight | speymouth

    199 to “By gaslight”

    1. turnbuldrier says:

      Wow Chris.. that is a cracking piece of art.

    2. Robert Louis says:

      Oh bravo, Mr Cairns. Well done!

      Scots are supposed to believe that the lying murderous Tory cabal in London want to leave the EU to ‘save’ 13bn, yet are absolutely desperate to hold on toe Scotland which supposedl;y cost them 15bn a year.

      Scotland subsidises England, and has done since 1707. Nobody takes GERS seriously anymore.

      Honestly, when you take a wee step back and look at the likes of the BBC‘s Andrew Neil and other rabid unionistas wittering on about how GERS shows Scotland is destitute, you realise how stupid it all is.

      I mean really, is that the argument for Scotland staying in the union??? Really?? I mean seriously, how f***ing dumb an argument is that? Yet unionists seem to think it is a vote winner.

      If their is any impoverishment of Scotland, it is down to the avarice, corruption, nepotism and greed of London, and its cursed, unwanted, undemocratic ‘union‘.

      Over 70% of Scots under 35 now support independence. OVER 70%!! Not one of them gives a flying f*** about GERS – or the ‘union‘ for that matter.

    3. Capella says:

      Deep! So much gaslighting going on but glad Hamish strolls on through.

    4. kapelmeister says:

      Fanny By Gaslight.

      One of your best ever Chris.

    5. Capella says:

      Talking of graphic illustrations of gaslighting – Neil Oliver, gaslighter in chief at the BBC, is called out by a real historian:

      A SCOTTISH author is out to spark a war of words with BBC history presenter Neil Oliver claiming the Blood of the Clans episode shown in midweek “slandered” Jacobite heroine Lady Anne Mackintosh. http://www.thenational.scot/news/18684668.history-author-challenges-neil-oliver-slander-bbc-series/?ref=appshr

    6. John Muir says:

      Love it! This one is timeless. Magnificent!

    7. Capella says:

      Joanna Cherry on R4 in 5 mins to talk about UK gov attack on Scottish Kegal independence.

      https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1299595221114785792?s=20

    8. Capella says:

      Kegal = Legal

    9. Contrary says:

      Brilliant!

    10. Morgatron says:

      Just brilliant Chris.

    11. Willie says:

      Just listened to Joanna Cherry on R4.

      The presenter being I suspect Sarah Smith interrupted mid speech in a continuation of the Wark bias. But aside the key point i took was that Joanna’s comment that the Westminster’s attempt to restrain the independence of the Scottish legal system was that it would afford the opportunity to mount a legal challenge against the breaking the 1707 Treaty of Union.

      As an international treaty such a challenge could be taken out side the UK and in that we see a glimpse of how other fronts other than Nicola Sturgeon’s preferred S30 could open up.

      And that is exactly the fronts we need to open up.

    12. defo says:

      Surely it’s ‘Fannied by gaslight ‘ Kapelmeister.

    13. winifred mccartney says:

      Fab cartoon.

      Robert Louis got it in one – no one believes GERS anymore – when the only person they can get to defend them is a dog food salesman you know they are in big trouble.

    14. The Isolator says:

      Stunning work Chris.Well done.

    15. Stan Broadwood says:

      Capella

      I thought you told the world you were finished with Wings.

      You are clearly NOT.

      Back with a bang, to tell us all how brilliant Sturgeon is.

      No one is listening to you anymore Capella.

      The Sturgeon era is OVER,,,for good.

      Get over it!!!

    16. Effijy says:

      GERS was a new method of lying concocted by a pathological liar
      Of a Tory Minister sitting one the cabinet of the party if liars.

      The party who bludgeoned the Miners and Trade Union movement,
      Threw away our coal reserves, stopped school milk for our children,
      gave us the Poll Tax, went to war with Argentina to win an election,
      Gave us the first decade since Dickensian times were the average
      Family never improved their standard of living, who gave us 15%
      Mortgage rates, who in 2010 promised to wipe out UK debt in the
      Next parliament, who broke every promise made in the referendum Vow,
      who tried to close parliament, who promised £350 million per week with
      Brexit, who gave us a racist adulterer who declared his hate of Scots,
      who gave us Dominic Cummings who hands out bullion pound contracts
      To Tory supporting companies.

      How could Scotland survive without these vile people lying to us?

    17. MaggieC says:

      Chris , Excellent that deserves 110 % .

    18. Capella says:

      I see our resident gaslighter has changed his name again.

    19. Tom Kane says:

      There are so many extraordinary things about this website. It’s amazing to see it as the work of two people.

      Chris, this really is a poster for our times. Highly recommend you consider putting it up for sale in a beautiful poster format.

      We have plenty capacity and wealth. And need to use it humanely.

      RIP Mercy Baguma…

    20. Ottomanboi says:

      THE DEMOCRACY DELUSION?
      In the cold light of day even more stark and spare.
      Many still do not see or wish to see.
      Covid-19 suppression disease or mutton headed stupidity?

    21. Breeks says:

      To compliment and excellent GERS cartoon, here’s an excellent GERS video from Phantom Power…

      https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1299474225393274884

    22. Capella says:

      The last families who lived on St Kilda. Very sad story but terrific photos.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53782411?__twitter_impression=true

    23. dakk says:

      Nailed it again Chris.

    24. Patsy Millar says:

      Your cartoons are the poetry of the genre.

    25. Republicofscotland says:

      Excellent work Chris Westminster has been gaslighting Scotland for 313 years, so much so that Scots developed a cringe, but things are changing.

      Meanwhile Extinction Rebellion have organised disruptive demos for Scotland next week, lets see if any of them receive 72 days in the slammer for their troubles. Of course it should be a longer sentence for actually wanting to cause disruption.

      Sandra White SNP MSP won’t seek reelection next year,the Glasgow Kelvin MSP is one of the longest serving MSPs at Holyrood.

      In my opinion decent SNP MSPs who see a negative change in the party are leaving in numbers. Probably to be replaced by young careerist wokists, with agendas other than independence.

      Who else will desert the SNP at Holyrood before May next year.

    26. bobajock says:

      Jesus – this is spot on.

    27. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      BRILLIANT!

      Chris, you go from strength to strength.

    28. Breeks says:

      Willie says:
      29 August, 2020 at 7:59 am

      …. Joanna’s comment that the Westminster’s attempt to restrain the independence of the Scottish legal system was that it would afford the opportunity to mount a legal challenge against the breaking the 1707 Treaty of Union.

      As an international treaty such a challenge could be taken out side the UK and in that we see a glimpse of how other fronts other than Nicola Sturgeon’s preferred S30 could open up.

      And that is exactly the fronts we need to open up.

      Agree 1000%.

      Front of the queue should be Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation to will of Westminster over Brexit. Brexit is a colonial violation of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and should either be contested at the UN and Council of Europe, or simply interpreted as a formal and fatal breach of the 1707 Treaty of Union, and the action to secure such objectives should be commenced immediately, before December, and the end of the Transition Period.

      Since the SNP, as a political Party and Scottish “government” seem determined to do absolutely nothing, we must all back Joanna Cherry to the hilt as legal Guardian and Protector of Scotland’s Constitutional Interests, and do all that we can to encourage every lawful assault possible on the colonial impositions being forced upon Scotland, while the SNP under Sturgeon brings shame on itself daily by looking the other way.

      The Law is on our side, both domestically and Internationally. The literal definition of colonialism is on our side. The truth is on our side. We Scots should have no fear in defending our Nation, because our Constitutional Sovereignty is sound, legitimate, extant and incontrovertible. What fear that exists is understandable anxiety that Westminster is the arch villain of sophistry and misinformation, the “Grifter in Chief” of International Relations… but they cannot alter the truth, merely hide it. That is their great weakness.

      Believe in ourselves Scotland. Stand firm and demand the truth, because it is the Union which is a decrepit and corrupt facade; false, unconstitutional, and wholly dependent on fudged conventions mired in impenetrable sophistry to propagate the false reality that Westminster can claim title over Scottish Sovereignty. It cannot.

      The rotten Union only survives through the assumed convention of Scotland’s tacit acquiescence to everything… like the browbeaten wife in the abusive marriage. But conventions were broken with Brexit. Scotland dissented. The wife, god bless her, found the courage to say no. Scotland’s consent was formally denied for Brexit, a distinction which converts Scotland’s normally docile and passive acquiescence into a gross act of colonial subjugation that is contrary to International Law. Scotland said no, and Westminster crossed over into crime, and destroyed the Union when they chose to overrule Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and impose the will of one nation upon another. Brexit is non consensual. Brexit is Scotland being forced against it’s will.

      Be in NO DOUBT Scotland, Brexit is the fulcrum which breaks the back of the Union. Sturgeon’s Government had no constitutional right or sovereign authority to capitulate on our behalf. The SNP doesn’t command Scotland’s sovereignty any more than Westminster. We, the people, are sovereign.

    29. Milady says:

      Oh my. Heartbreaking.

    30. Bob Mack says:

      Incrdible cartoon Chris. It reminds me of reality shows where well off celebrities enter the realms of deprivation for a few weeks then go back to their life of privelege and the round of tv shows to describe their suffering albeit if the suffering was making them even wealthier.

      Scotland can stand on its own two feet and probably better than the rest of the UK.

      Our poverty is manufactured in the Accounts Dept of Westminster.

    31. Clydebuilt says:

      Stan Broadwood @ 8.12am

      I’m listenning to Capella,

      Get over it!

      Brilliant Cartoon Chris!

    32. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Regarding GERS. It should be remembered, every year when the Civil Service does it trawl of the universities (“both of them,” – Sir Humphrey Appleby GCB KBE MVO), recruiting graduate entrants, the brightest and best are placed in the Treasury.

      So, GERS figures are by and large manipulated by the best minds in the Civil Service – the people who are on a clear path to high positions and the Establishment rewards deriving from there.

      They are not going to rock the boat, by telling the truth and worrying the populace, by letting them have a glimmer of the reality, which is that Scotland subsidises England.

    33. Cuilean says:

      I am printing this off.

      This is your best work ever in my book (bar the Union Jack cufflinked hand snuffing out hope’s candle).

      ‘Gers Day’, Scotland’s very own ‘All Fool!’ Day.

      After Independence, we should make Gers Day a national holiday, to look back and laugh at how stupid we once were to beleive such prima facie tripe.

    34. Linda McFarlane says:

      Chris,

      Wow, just Wow!

    35. Famous15 says:

      Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or group, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment, often evoking in them cognitive dissonance and other changes, including low self-esteem. Using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and misinformation, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim’s beliefs. Instances can range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents occurred, to belittling the victim’s emotions and feelings, to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim“

      The response to gaslighting is to get the hell out of the relationship.

      I keep telling y’all independence is normal anything else is shunt!

    36. Famous15 says:

      Is Brexit a big enough bizarre event?

    37. Stan Broadwood says:

      Famous15

      Is trying to put Alex Salmond in jail for the rest of his life a big event???

      Is giving men legal access to female toilets and changing rooms a big event???

      Is jailing someone who has a strong opinion of a certain subject a big event???

      Is giving Sturgeon another Mandate a big event???

    38. I know I keep saying it but just ask the unionists how does gers stack up against the Macrone report that Scotland independent would be among the richest country’s in the world are they telling us that Macrone was wrong so wrong that they hid his report for 30years until they were forced to reveal it under foi act as always they insult our intelligence us who have invented almost every thing the modern world runs on

    39. Stoker says:

      Cuilean says on 29 August, 2020 at 11:08 am

      “‘Gers Day’, Scotland’s very own ‘All Fool!’ Day.”

      🙂 So apt! Scotland’s very own ‘All Fools’ day right enough. 🙂

    40. Famous15 says:

      Stan Broadwood you are so obvious.We see right through you.

    41. Stan Broadwood says:

      Famous15

      The ever so delightful Sturgeon flag Carrier.

      You and your wee gang Troll this sight trying to convince us that Sturgeon is the one.

      It ain’t working.

      Away back to the Ginger Dog.

    42. Stan Broadwood says:

      Chadwick who???

      Sky and BBC News leading with the death of Chadwick Boseman.

      I have never heard of this person.

      Meanwhile, Scotland gets completely ignored by our National News broadcasters.

    43. katherine hamilton says:

      I wanted to say about this cartoon………………. There are no words. “Brilliance” is bandied about too much, but not this time.

    44. A Person says:

      Great cartoon Chris

    45. Lizg says:

      K A Mylchreest 12.09
      While so hauntingly sad it’s also very beautiful… thank you

    46. ben madigan says:

      great cartoon. Well done Chris.
      here’s a post about gaslighting and its effects on individuals and countries
      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2018/09/06/gaslighting-time-to-light-out/

    47. kapelmeister says:

      Because of all the GERS publicity I’ve just seen an auld photie of its originator Ian Lang from the time when he was Scottish Secretary. And in the photie he was uncannily wearing the exact supercilious smile you see Alister Jack pictured with today. The sort of smile that says I’m a Tory with the power over you all.

      Scottish Secretaries during devolution might have been useless and maybe obnoxious, but they didn’t quite have that smile.

      But that horrible smile has returned and the current SoSS unmistakably sported it when he was pictured in front of the new power grab HQ.

    48. Jan Barnes says:

      Wow. I don’t normally comment, but that is an absolute cracker. Great work.

    49. James Che. says:

      So is distinction rebellion gas lighting, or climate change gas lighting, or covid rules and restriction gas lighting, or blm matter gas lighting, or men in ladies toilets gas lighting, or new laws to shut down freedom of speech under the persuasion that it is for free speech for others, or being to wee, to small and to poor gas lighting,
      It seems many of these situations are set out to confuse us, to make us think one thing, then another, to make us have doubts around what we do, say or think, the reality is often different,
      Blm have killed, shot or injured black people too without discrimination,
      Distinction rebellion travel all around the world as do climate change activists, using transport that they say is damaging to environment, often leaving a mess behind them that we pay local councils to clean up afterwards,
      men claiming to be women, but are still physically men with penises in women toilets and shower rooms,
      It seems that these are all gas light issues or new agendas created to confuse,and created to set one person or party against another, gas lighting is indeed a serious world wide weapon.

      Covid gives the citizens and people of the world new confusing rules and laws to abide by under penalties, while the rich and elite travel freely anywhere they chose,( ie, Prince Charles, Dominic Cummings and even Boris,

    50. robertknight says:

      Braw!

    51. Famous15 says:

      Stan Broadwood I am not a member of the SNP and am immune to the charms of Nicola Sturgeon but what I wonder at is where are you going with your bulldust.

      My only desire is independence.

      Et tu?

    52. Republicofscotland says:

      Boris Johnson plans to spend more time in Scotland, along with his Scottish minion Douglas Ross, in an attempt to persuade Scots to remain in this horrible union.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18685428.boris-johnson-make-third-trip-scotland-number-10-changes-strategy/

    53. Balaaargh says:

      @Stan Broadwood,

      If you had any familiarity with modern popular culture you would be aware of a couple of comic books being made into a handful or so independent arthouse movies. They didn’t take that much in ticket receipts, only about $25 billion globally.

    54. Masslass says:

      Breeks at 9.57am Wish there was a share button.

      Brilliant post.

    55. SilverDarling says:

      What a superb depiction of our current status.

      I look forward to the day the most vocal proponents of that gaslighting have a light shone on them.

    56. Dan says:

      @ James Che. at 1:28 pm

      Indeed, and iirc Vladislav Surkov developed and utlised such methods which were along the lines of the following:
      If you can saturate minds with a maelstrom of often contradictory bullshit it leaves those minds bamboozled and unable to properly comprehend the reality of any given situation.
      Confused people also cannot defend or counter information / misinformation with any degree of accuracy because their own point of knowledge and reference is blurred.
      Basically, utlising such practices either disenfranchise people completely, or have them bickering amongst themselves in a divide and rule stylée.

    57. PacMan says:

      Gers.

      £69 billion of taxes raised in Scotland, £32 billion spent in Scotland and a £15 billion deficit.

      If any private sector company director presented those accounts, they’d be in the nick for fraud.

    58. Capella says:

      @ K.A.Mylchreest 12:09 pm

      Thx – that is so sad but beautiful. Here’s a link to a short excerpt from Tom Steel’s book “The Life and Death of St Kilda”. It doesn’t have the photos which my own copy has but gives a good impression of how people lived.

      https://bi.hcpdts.com/reflowable/scrollableiframe/9780007438013

      @ Clydebuilt 🙂

    59. Bob Mack says:

      Chris Cairns. If there is such a thing as a Maker in visual artistry it is you. Incredibly powerful . My friends love it.

    60. Polly says:

      A wonderful cartoon. I agree with someone above, sell it as a large print. I would buy and frame.

      I agree with Breeks too about the also wonderful Phantom Power.

    61. Bob Mack says:

      Makar not maker.

    62. robertknight says:

      I wonder what the UK Govt. would say if the Govt. of France upgraded their high speed rail line to the French side of the Chunnel, then sent the UK Govt. a bill for a % share of the cost, with a note saying “Yes, we know our shiny new railway isn’t actually in England, but people in England will benefit from it nonetheless. Especially those who might at some point travel or send goods to France by rail”.

      I know exactly what the UK Govt. would say to the Government of France. The second of the two words used would be “off”.

      So why doesn’t the Scottish Government tell the UK Govt. to “**** off” when Scotland is allocated a % of the cost of all the infrastructure and expenditure that goes on in the Kingdom of England & Northern Ireland?

      Even better idea – produce a Scottish Govt. version of GERS showing ONLY the actual domestic expenditure and ALL revenue, with the Scottish % costs of UK-wide departments, such as Foreign and Commonwealth Office, MoD, etc. not based on UK expenditure but on similar sized countries such as Ireland or Norway.

    63. Capella says:

      @ Dan – Hypernormalisation – the Adam Curtis video is on youtube but will probably not last there long as it’s also on BBC iPlayer. It’s long 2 hrs 46 mins.
      Seems to be the Dominic Cummings/Steve Bannon training manual.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thLgkQBFTPw

    64. Black Joan says:

      Very, very well said by Breeks @ 9.57 am:

      “Be in NO DOUBT Scotland, Brexit is the fulcrum which breaks the back of the Union. Sturgeon’s Government had no constitutional right or sovereign authority to capitulate on our behalf. The SNP doesn’t command Scotland’s sovereignty any more than Westminster. We, the people, are sovereign.”

      Very, very well drawn, Chris. Please consider making prints/postcards/another book of your brilliant work available?

    65. Bob Mack says:

      I cannot validate this but German journalists have been told by those close to Merkel that Barnier will put an end to the Credit negotiations on the 9th September.

      If this is accurate where the bell do we go now.?

    66. TJenny says:

      Chris, superb.

      A picture paints a thousand words.

    67. Bob Mack says:

      Sorry Brexit

    68. Beaker says:

      Great cartoon Chris. Ever tried punting some of them to Private Eye? And no, I’m not on commission!

      Been on Twitter having a nosey, and AUOBALBA has posted this yesterday:

      All Under One Banner
      @AUOBALBA
      “Let’s be absolutely clear- if the SNP do not call IndyRef directly after winning the Holyrood 2021 election there will be an uprising against their inaction- even though the vote should, and could, happen before the Brexit transition period ends 31/12/20. Notice has been served.”

      It’s generated a few replies… 🙂

    69. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Bob Mack @ 4.49pm

      Entirely possible, the EU will require time to work out the tariffs etc, so allowing three months to finalise details seems about right.

      That would also give BoJo a possible chance to blame the EU, which is probably his Plan A.

    70. leither says:

      rory looks terrible 🙁

    71. James Che. says:

      Excellent cartoon Chris as one cartoonist to another, better than I could have achieved, a lot of good comments here from people with common sense, who are not fooled by government strategies to under mine the mass population through thought control.

    72. Robert Graham says:

      Breaks @ 9:57

      Agreed w every word

      I just wonder what Administration is the actual impediment here , not sure now if it’s just Bawjaws

      When so many clues are pointing in the same direction we would be mugs to ignore what’s becoming pretty obvious and the excuses for not doing are now pretty well Exhausted as is the Patience of many supporters questions are being asked but not answered , by being the only game in Town and flatly refusing to follow the prime objective gets on folks wick , I would usually swear at this point but don’t want to upset those with a sensitive disposition .

    73. Dan says:

      @ leither at 5:56 pm

      rory Hamish looks terrible coz he’s suffering from a leech like parasite called Unionism.
      It’s a sickly affliction that stunts his potential by inflicting regressive policies on him that constrain his optimum development, whilst also siphoning off his resources that would amply nourish him if he was free of the ailment.

      It’s rather ironic that as a net exporter of both fuel and electricity, Hamish should be gaslit by our partner in this union that has to import both gas and electricity to keep itself gassed and lit…

    74. Asklair says:

      https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/1521067/online-politics-digital-landscape/

      Probably been posted already here. “Wings Over Scotland blogger Stuart Campbell believes the duo behind The Majority “probably have more chance” of capitalising than most because the unionist side is “where all the money is””

    75. dakk says:

      Still resonates, so feel moved to comment again.

      The best, if saddest yet Chris.

    76. Chris Cairns says:

      My thanks to all for the kind words today. My website will be getting refreshed before long and I’ll be sure to add this one to those available to buy.
      Thanks again, C.

    77. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Excellent cartoon as ever, Chris. Tragic but oddly inspiring. We won’t be putting up with their ever-more-disintegrating wall-of-cracked-mirrors shite forever.

    78. TJenny says:

      Chris – great news re your website. Would love to buy some of your works. Keep us posted, please.

    79. callmedave says:

      Saw the new cartoon early this morning and it’s another excellent one.

      Been out all day so just catching up since tea time.

      GERS:

      https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/08/29/that-15-5bn-is-not-a-deficit-it-is-a-surplus/

    80. Stoker says:

      For those who haven’t already seen it. Some educational bedtime reading.

      wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-essay-the-right-to-decide/

    81. Stoker says:

      Well, that didn’t work so I’ll put the full link on. :))

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-essay-the-right-to-decide/

    82. boris says:

      This then is the direction Boris Johnson is headed. So far as Scotland is concerned there will be no further independence referendums and devolution is to be rendered impotent being bypassed by UK government agencies working within but not responsible to the Scottish government.

      The UK Stabilisation Unit is also closely monitoring Scottish politics, events and personalities and has resources available to deal with any disruption or attempts at destabilisation of the UK.

      https://caltonjock.com/2020/08/29/scotland-under-the-cosh-you-aint-seen-nuthin-yet-be-afraid-be-very-afraid/

    83. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Great comment, copied from btl WGD:

      Welsh Sion says:

      August 29, 2020 at 8:55 pm

      I’m normally – even in politics, but then I wouldn’t be a YESSER – an optimist.

      But, with respect, I think you’re wrong to suggest that these are ‘the first dangerous steps to a fascist state’.

      We’ve been toddling along (and even in certain circumstances) been taking huge strides towards a totalitarian state in the Disunited Kingdumb for a good (?) many years – since at least the era of Thatcher, if not earlier. Have not nationalists (both in my country and Scotland) been bugged, shadowed, their speeches recorded and archived by so-called UK Security Forces for decades? Are not their names, and doubtless ours (as anti-State subversives) similarly on file at MI5 HQ? Ditto for peace campaigners, far lefties, anti-nuke campaigners and so many others who don’t fit happily with how the State wants us to be?

      How about the ‘Arbeit macht frei’ philosophy of DWP and their privatecontractors such as Capita and ATOS ensuring that those who can walk a couple of paces are not sufficiently disabled to qualify for benefit? What of the sanctions imposed on those who are to sick to report for ‘work interviews’ – and then rely on neighbours, relatives, charities and foodbanks? And if they can’t access these, they die squalid, undernourished and often unreported deaths in neighbourhood neglected by central Government? The I-don’t-care attitudes of the Johnsons, the Goves and the Ian Duncan-Smiths who self-perpetuate and force the rest of us into the mud under their jackboot? The complicit media who never question Westminster policy – but regularly trots out everything from Holyrood as SNP Baaaad or that the Taffies are ‘too weak, too poor, too stupid’ to do anything for themselves?

      Then there’s the Hitlerian echoes of rags such as the Daily Vile who abhor anyone who is not white, English, middle class and anti-Brexit? How else to explain the headline – straight from Adolf’s playbook – of ‘enemies of the people’ for those judges only doing their job in trying to rein in the over-weening Executive? English xenophobia and bigotry is on the rise and all this is being encouraged by Johnson and his gauleiters, most notably Cummings who is constantly looking to persuade the gullible that black is white and that he and his commandants are above the law.

      First steps on the road to Fascism? Hardly. We’re long down the swastika-covered road of English totalitarianism. The sooner we (Wales and Scotland) get out of this rotten, divisive and this self-aggrandising ‘union’ – monstered as we are by the new illiberalism on the rampage in England – the better.

    84. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stoker (10.00) –

      Thanks for that link.

      We should be grateful that the WOS archive is there. Fascinating thread, very instructive. Hard to believe it was over 8 years ago.

      Also surprising to see how few comments were made. Only 37?!

      The take-away, for me, was this:

      MajorBloodnok says:
      12 May, 2012 at 1:27 pm
      Scott – You are right though, it is about power versus democracy. The former presupposition is what the discredited unionist parties are all about. They think that the SNP’s game is to achieve and retain ‘power’ and so they react and spin accordingly, but the issue of independence is above and beyond that shallow and meager objective. Still, if they continue to think that way it harms no-one but themselves.

    85. Lizg says:

      Thanks Ian ….. Welsh Sion hit the nail on the head we have indeed been on that path for decades.
      It’s evident in the Media and Broadcast entertainment too, there are even current programmes showing clips from the 70s 80s and 90s where we are encouraged to laugh at how ignorant WE were.
      What they really show is how unsophisticated the nudging of the population really was!
      Much in the same way we view the WW2 feel good movies and propaganda and ask ourselves how any adult could buy that shit …. but apparently they did.
      Hopefully there are enough out there still not buying what Westminster is selling and Wales and ourselves get out quickly.
      Why the majority in England still drink the Westminster kool aid is beyond me, I wish them my best but I’ve not the time or treasure to be able to wait till they wake up even I was minded to !

    86. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lizg –

      Isn’t it peculiar how people feel comfortable laughing at the apparent ‘ignorance’ of their own parents, seemingly oblivious to the fact that their own children will mock them in exactly the same way?

      Makes ye wonder what Scots will laugh at, fifty years hence, when they look at the WOS archives. It won’t just be Chris Cairns’ cartoons, that’s for sure.

      😉

    87. Lizg says:

      Aye ….they’ll aw wonder why I wasn’t put in charge years ago 🙂

    88. Clapper57 says:

      I see yon Professor Ronald MacDonald is at it again….what a CLOWN….

      Apparently one of his colleagues Professor Burger King said that Prof. Ronald MacDonald is once again telling a BIG WHOPPER……he said ” BIG MAC has always had a BEEF about Scotland being Independent and this latest statement shows yet again what a NUGGET he is”.

      Professor Ronald MacDonald declined to respond to what Professor Burger King said other than to say he was “HAPPY to go for a MEAL with Professor Burger King”…..

      Professor Burger King responded ” Hope he’s paying because I’m in DEFICIT at the moment as my TWIN borrowed money from me and only gave me back half of what he borrowed…so I’m a bit short at the moment…..so if he wants to go for a MEAL that’s the DEAL”.

      He also added that he hoped Professor MacDonald did not bring along his friends GEORGE and his girlfriend that NUT ELLA to the meal as last time they went BANANAS insisting to the waiter that their drinks were to be filled to the RIM……clearly they meant BRIM and it was embarrassing…..I think his friend GEORGE was the CATalyst who precipitated all the fuss….HATS off to him though as he got his way….I think he said he was from GALLOWAY……he also shouted to the waiter ” I better get FED soon ORA place is getting wrecked”….

      The wacky world of economics….it’s a Dog’s life…just ask Kevin H….he’ll tell you all about that…I believe he is a CHUM of Professor MacDonald , they are the same PEDIGREE I believe …at least he has a PAL….always a BONUS….

    89. Beaker says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says:
      29 August, 2020 at 11:06 pm
      “Isn’t it peculiar how people feel comfortable laughing at the apparent ‘ignorance’ of their own parents, seemingly oblivious to the fact that their own children will mock them in exactly the same way?”

      Terry Pratchett wrote something similar in one of his books (buggered I can remember which), in that the generation that says “we will overcome”, end up being the generation that the next generation says exactly the same thing to.

    90. Benhope says:

      We have four months left to stay in Europe and exercise our sovereignty as an independent small European country.

      We must support Joanna Cherry in all her attempts to legally end this horrible union as clearly shown by the tragic death of refugee Mercy.

      When Stu first started exposing the SNP hierarchy as having no interest in persuing Independence I think the readership here would probably have been about 95% against his views. A couple of years later I think the 95% would now be reversed and now be supportive of the Rev Stu`s analysis.

      We have four months to push for Joanna Cherry and Breeks clearly defined strategy to establish our status as an independent European country.

    91. twathater says:

      First, Chris what a characterisation unfortunately it is totally correct

      Second thanks Stoker for that link at 9.59pm which included

      The Treaty of Union is an international treaty between two nations, and as it makes no provision for its subsequent alteration by Westminster, it cannot be amended – only annulled – as there’s no longer an English Parliament to negotiate with its Scottish counterpart. Since the resumption of the Scottish Parliament in 1999, Scotland has regained in practice what it always had in theory and what England still lacks – the right to unilaterally withdraw from, and thereby cancel, the Treaty at any such time as the people express the desire to.

      So alongside Breeks let’s support Joanna Cherry when she confronts WM in their proposed NEW ACTS OF UNION which renders the TREATY OF UNION BREACHED

    92. Robert Louis says:

      Breeks at 0959am yesterday,

      Totally agree weith your comment, and it is worth repeating in full, so I have further down, below.

      It is so very much the truth that brexit ends the union. It is an oversight by London that they mistake the union for meaning they can do anything they please to Scotland. Yet in reality, the union has NEVER been such a thing. Even just a few decades ago, no westminster government would act with such arrogance towards Scotland BECAUSE to an extent they understood the nature of the union.

      It has always been understood that Scotland’s participation in this cursed rotten union, was with consent, and that ended when England (and I do mean ENGLAND) decided that IT would leave the EU and take Scotland along with it, wholly against our wishes. This is no small matter, this is not just a ‘technicality’ as you rightly point out. This not a mere ‘political’ argument. This goes right to the very core of the treaty of union.

      Others also are correct to remind folks that the treaty of union is NOT a document which can be amended at will by Westminster, it requires the consent of the people of Scotland.

      Westminster and especially thick English supremacists like Boris Johnson, simply do not seem to understand what an international treaty actually is. The union is NOT Westminster’s plaything to mmend and change as it pleases, much as they may think it is.

      I agree, it is shameful the way in which the SNP and its ‘leader’ have wholly capitulated Scotland’s sovereignty, something which they have NO power to do. Thank god for Joanna Cherry, who at least (and seemingly alone) IS standing up for Scotland.

      Anyway, Here is Breeks comment from earlier. It is worth repeating.

      QUOTE
      “Front of the queue should be Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation to will of Westminster over Brexit. Brexit is a colonial violation of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and should either be contested at the UN and Council of Europe, or simply interpreted as a formal and fatal breach of the 1707 Treaty of Union, and the action to secure such objectives should be commenced immediately, before December, and the end of the Transition Period.

      Since the SNP, as a political Party and Scottish “government” seem determined to do absolutely nothing, we must all back Joanna Cherry to the hilt as legal Guardian and Protector of Scotland’s Constitutional Interests, and do all that we can to encourage every lawful assault possible on the colonial impositions being forced upon Scotland, while the SNP under Sturgeon brings shame on itself daily by looking the other way.

      The Law is on our side, both domestically and Internationally. The literal definition of colonialism is on our side. The truth is on our side. We Scots should have no fear in defending our Nation, because our Constitutional Sovereignty is sound, legitimate, extant and incontrovertible. What fear that exists is understandable anxiety that Westminster is the arch villain of sophistry and misinformation, the “Grifter in Chief” of International Relations… but they cannot alter the truth, merely hide it. That is their great weakness.

      Believe in ourselves Scotland. Stand firm and demand the truth, because it is the Union which is a decrepit and corrupt facade; false, unconstitutional, and wholly dependent on fudged conventions mired in impenetrable sophistry to propagate the false reality that Westminster can claim title over Scottish Sovereignty. It cannot.

      The rotten Union only survives through the assumed convention of Scotland’s tacit acquiescence to everything… like the browbeaten wife in the abusive marriage. But conventions were broken with Brexit. Scotland dissented. The wife, god bless her, found the courage to say no. Scotland’s consent was formally denied for Brexit, a distinction which converts Scotland’s normally docile and passive acquiescence into a gross act of colonial subjugation that is contrary to International Law. Scotland said no, and Westminster crossed over into crime, and destroyed the Union when they chose to overrule Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and impose the will of one nation upon another. Brexit is non consensual. Brexit is Scotland being forced against it’s will.

      Be in NO DOUBT Scotland, Brexit is the fulcrum which breaks the back of the Union. Sturgeon’s Government had no constitutional right or sovereign authority to capitulate on our behalf. The SNP doesn’t command Scotland’s sovereignty any more than Westminster. We, the people, are sovereign.”

    93. highseastim says:

      Republicofscotland 29th Aug 9.28am :- I have no doudt that Sandra White and the other SNP politicians who are stepping down are excellent politicians, but all are over the retirement age and deserve their more relaxing lifestyle, I’m sure in the background they’ll still be pushing the independence message.

    94. Sharny Dubs says:

      As Breeks puts it, Scotland like the brow beaten wife in an abusive marriage.

      Brexit is marital rape, WM’s violation while the SNP hold her down.

      The worst kind of abuse.

      Time the sovereign people of Scotland said enough.

    95. Sharny Dubs says:

      Oh the “R” word got me in moderation so…

      As Breeks puts it, Scotland like the brow beaten wife in an abusive marriage.

      Brexit is marital r#”e, WM’s violation while the SNP hold her down.

      The worst kind of abuse.

      Time the sovereign people of Scotland said enough.

    96. Ian McCubbin says:

      One of your best and hits this week’s paltry fairy tail about Scotland again being in debt to Englands Parliament.
      Mire like they owe us £30B

    97. Rm says:

      None of the Scottish Government leaders are forceful enough to change the way things are going you see a few token words in the National by Mike Russel saying you won’t take Scotland’s powers it’s the same as Ian Blackford saying we’ll never be taken out of Europe, token words not a bit of real meaning behind them, they had over 4 years to try and keep Scotland in Europe after the Scots people voted to stay, if this was any other country there would be rioting in the streets but the people keep trusting the SNP government, but nothing ever happens, folk are gie gullible, Joanna Cherry will have to take over shortly, someone who means what they say.

    98. Ian McCubbin says:

      Breeks comment yesterday is paramount here and his contention not only is supported by international law but has a number of instances where such laws allow us as a nation of the people to declare independence without delay. So Joanna Cherry and Brenda McNeil seem to be the only SNP willing to take us there.
      Maybe they should be FM and Depute FM.
      Part 3 from ch 8 of Alan Buchanan’s book Justice, Legitimacy and Self Determination gives clear guidance legally on how we should proceed. It also covers the pitfalls
      Believe me they are cleared away as Johnston et al have dropped right into the hole giving us at least 4 if not 5 reasons legally to dissolve this pathetic union of economic rape on Scotland. Let’s get Indy done.

    99. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Professor John Robertson’s The Tusker has an excellent rebuttal this morning of the Unionists’ case for believing the lie that is the GERS figures.

      https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/08/29/that-15-5bn-is-not-a-deficit-it-is-a-surplus/

    100. Ottomanboi says:

      Rm
      The reliance on legalism is the weakness in the strategy. Law whether Scottish or British is essentially unionist, in principle concerned with preserving the status quo.
      A far more radical mentality is required one that is effectively assertively anti-British.
      Many Scots are still inclined to be soft on Britishness, the false nationality that confined Scotland to the margins of history while England occupied centre stage amassing the wealth, prestige, the power and the ‘glory’.
      No one on the nationalist squad yet displays the audacious characteristics require.
      The worldview is just too British, too intellectually flaccid.
      A great cause betrayed by its proponents.

    101. Colin Alexander says:

      See: http://www.businessforscotland.com/scotlands-finances-the-truth/

      “But it’s the UK’s deficit, not Scotland’s. If an independent Scotland had done the daftest thing it could have done with its historical surpluses, then as a nation, Scotland would be £508bn richer than GERS suggests it is, as part of the UK. If it had simply copied Norway, Scotland would have £547.5bn in a Scottish wealth fund right now”.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/doublethink-of-a-number/#more-91750

      “The name and size of this bailout vary wildly. Sometimes it’s a “deficit”, sometimes it’s a “black hole”, sometimes it’s a “fiscal transfer”, and it can be £8bn, £9bn, £10bn, £15bn, £28bn, £32bn or any other figure up to a hundred and eleventy thousand million bajillion squillion depending on who you’re talking to.

      (The last one’s probably either David Coburn or Jackie Baillie.)”

      See also:

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/junkies-tramps-and-thieves/#more-87705

    102. Colin Alexander says:

      “But it’s the UK’s deficit, not Scotland’s. If an independent Scotland had done the daftest thing it could have done with its historical surpluses, then as a nation, Scotland would be £508bn richer than GERS suggests it is, as part of the UK. If it had simply copied Norway, Scotland would have £547.5bn in a Scottish wealth fund right now”.

      See: http://www.businessforscotland.com/scotlands-finances-the-truth/

    103. robertknight says:

      Socrates @ 9:23

      “Professor John Robertson’s The Tusker has an excellent rebuttal this morning of the Unionists’ case for believing the lie that is the GERS figures.”

      Why is it left to such individuals when the Scottish Government should be doing exactly this type of thing?

      SG should publish all revenue and spending within Scotland and use figures from comparable sized countries for spending on defence, foreign affairs, overseas aid, etc. rather than a % of the UK figures.

    104. Stan Broadwood says:

      The Herald:-

      “Nicola Sturgeon reveals radical new plan for recovery from Covid”

      Health and the recovery from the Covid-19 pandemic will be the cornerstones of this week’s programme for government, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

      The Scottish Government will announce its legislative agenda for the rest of the parliamentary session this week, with the First Minister saying the priority will remain tackling the pandemic and the economic recovery from its after effects.

      With the virus being implicated in the deaths of as many as 4,222 Scots, according to National Records of Scotland, and the country officially in a recession after the lockdown caused a drop of 19.7% in the second quarter of this year, the First Minister said “this will not be a normal programme for government”.

      The First Minister said she would take a “radical” approach to policies outlined in the annual programme, saying: “Next week, I will set out radical and wide-ranging policies not only to help Scotland through this crisis but to drive a strong recovery with a renewed focus on what matters to people across the country.

      “We have an opportunity, not simply to go back to how things were, but to address many of the deep seated challenges our country faces.

      “The programme for government 2020-21 will be based on our determination to recover from this virus and deliver a fairer, greener and more prosperous Scotland for everyone.”

      While the First Minister cautioned Scots on the need to ensure that the virus remains under control, as localised outbreaks continue in Coupar Angus, Kingspark School in Dundee and Hawick, she stressed the need to look to the future at how Scotland will recover from the economic toll of the virus.

      She said: “Businesses and individuals have made extraordinary sacrifices to tackle this pandemic together.

      “In every community in Scotland people have shown incredible resilience, compassion and skill to provide everything from the most advanced intensive care, to simple acts of kindness.

      “That is why it’s so important for us to continue to keep the virus under control.

      “At the same time we must also look to the future, to think about how we can help people, businesses and communities recover from this pandemic.

      “We cannot, and should not, let this virus define our futures.”

      https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18686025.nicola-sturgeon-reveals-radical-new-plan-recovery-covid/

      Don’t mention the “I” word.

      Sturgeon really must step down at the first possible opportunity.

    105. Effijy says:

      I’m looking at Sky news but hoping that I’m still dreaming this.
      The have a banner stating that the latest poll shows an equal
      40% each for the Tories and Labour if an election was called
      Tomorrow??

      Happy days for the useless clown appointed Lib Dem
      Leader as they would decide who stays in power and
      in return get a post above their ability and make some
      Very nice money, just like Clegg.

      Another wonderful reason for leaving the English is their support
      Of how the Tories have handled Covid?

      What by ignoring the Cygnus Exercise, the warning from Italy and Spain
      Who were hammered before it got here, or by holding the Cheltenham Festival
      and bringing in 10, 000 Spanish Football fans, perhaps the lack of PPE Kit held
      In stock for emergencies, the inability to distribute the stock they had, the inability to
      Procure new PPE Kit, the mixed and confused Covid guidance messages, the Tory
      Politicians breaking their own rules, the number of doctors and nurses dying due to the lack of PPE, Mr Gove prioritising his daughter’s Covid rest before the doctors, the £1,200 fee imposed on foreign Doctors who wished to stay with us risking their lives, or the Billions Give to Tory Supporters in emergency none disclosure contracts?

      All of the above leaves half of the English electorate happy with the Covid management of this Tory
      Government?

      We need a wall, land mines, machine gun posts to keep these people out of our lives!

    106. Capella says:

      A clip from Richard Murphy’s interview on WGD:

      Denmark is a remarkably comparable country in many ways. Is it in dire financial straits because it hasn’t got another country supporting it? No, Denmark’s actually running a surplus at the moment…”

      https://twitter.com/indyscotnews/status/1299983805797855233?s=20

    107. Stuart MacKay says:

      Stan Broadwood

      The only recovery from covid is through a vaccine. This thing is like trying to grab a handful of sand – the slightest gap and it escapes your grasp with ease.

      On Sept. 15th, Portugal plans on increasing the alert level and returning to pre-lockdown status. That’s because all the kids returning to school are going to spread the virus far and wide.

      There is no escape when your hands are tied by Westminster. It’s about time this government faced up to this reality.

      The Scottish Government is dealing with COVID-19. The Scottish Government had always been dealing with COVID-19.

    108. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I’ve noticed over this weekend, one or two Unionists on social media, in the wake of the GERS figures, pulling out the old: “Scottish oil is worthless,” argument.

      It didn’t work in 2014, so I don’t see it working today. What was that definition of insanity again – repeating the same mistakes in the hope of a different outcome.

    109. PacMan says:

      robertknight says:30 August, 2020 at 9:51 am

      Socrates @ 9:23

      “Professor John Robertson’s The Tusker has an excellent rebuttal this morning of the Unionists’ case for believing the lie that is the GERS figures.”

      Why is it left to such individuals when the Scottish Government should be doing exactly this type of thing?

      SG should publish all revenue and spending within Scotland and use figures from comparable sized countries for spending on defence, foreign affairs, overseas aid, etc. rather than a % of the UK figures.

      GERS is an economic outlook of Scotland as a region of the UK. It is what I’ve been saying about raising £69 billion, spending £32 billion and have a £12 billion deficit.

      IIRC, the Scottish government used it when the figures looked good towards independence when the oil price is how and got caught in the trap as now it looks bad. However, another perspective is that we are contributing far more to the UK than is being spent here then how more wealthy could we be with the economic straight jacket of the UK removed from us?

    110. PacMan says:

      Stuart MacKay says:30 August, 2020 at 10:44 am

      The only recovery from covid is through a vaccine.

      I wish we could get away from this narrative. The flu has been around for ever and there is no cure for it. Other viruses has vaccines but they still come back.

      The only real way back to some semblance of normality is really ramping up testing in order to collect enough data to identify current and future trends of how it is transmitted.

      Once this is done and results have a certainty of accuracy then future outbreaks are treated like normal ones like legionnaires, foot and mouth etc where local lock down procedures are instigated and it is contained.

      It sounds like this is part of the Scottish government strategy and that is why they will be successful at it. The only problem if they are successful at suppressing the virus, it will be useless as infection brought in again from outside our borders.

      Other countries are putting in testing facilities in their airports where passengers disembark, get tested and in a short time when results are known, they are either given the all clear, they can go on their way. An independent Scotland could achieve it or wait who knows how long until the UK government does.

    111. kapelmeister says:

      Ros @10:54 am

      An Ivy League economics professor backing independence. Kevin Hague’s GERS week has been spoiled!

    112. Wee Chid says:

      From Nicola Sturgeon “We cannot, and should not, let this virus define our futures.”
      Is that not exactly what she is doing – shelving independence to deal with fall out from the virus? Needs reminding of the purpose of the SNP.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-53958600

    113. Capella says:

      The whole Richard Murphy interview is on WGD. He demolishes the GERS figures beyond repair.

      The Scottish people have needed time to digest all this economic information and maybe a lot of people need more time. GERS week is a good time to launch many articles pointing out the grand theft that unionism has always been. It’s the job of the “king” to protect us from this thief, the Treaty of Arbroath points out.

      Nicola Sturgeon in FMQs and Kate Forbes in TV interiews have made it quite clear that independence is the only way to resolve the dire financial mess that unionism has delivered.

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2020/08/28/dugcast-fae-the-dughoose-with-prof-richard-murphy/

    114. Sharny Dubs says:

      GERS, recovery from COVID

      Look a squirrel!,

      It’s like a stuck record. Come on people.

    115. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I don’t know if the ‘25% of Scottish children live in poverty’ line is accurate or where it originated. Someone will be able to put their hands on the source if anyone really wants or needs it. But let’s say for argument’s sake it’s 20%.

      A fifth of a nation’s children living in poverty? Why isn’t that front and centre of every political campaign, local and national? WTF is it going to be in six months from now, when furloughing and other forms of support have become unsustainable, Brexit has happened, and we’re in the middle of winter?

      I’m not the only one who is utterly scunnered with the constant bickering over whether or not NS wants indy. I don’t give a fuck what she wants. What I and 99% of real indy supporters want is the freedom to tackle all of these problems ourselves. Weasel words about ‘greener, fairer economy’ don’t mean a fuckin thing so long as we have children experiencing abuse, neglect, and the kind of grinding poverty that makes them feel worthless for their entire lives.

      Forget the politicians. Fuck them. We have to know what we want before they get elected and we let them know what we want in no uncertain terms. That’s how it’s meant to work. And what many of us want is independence from WM/Tories so that we can look after our own communities and society generally. We’ve been voting – steadfastly – for the party who promised us that but we’re no closer than we were on Sep 19th 2014.

      It’s utterly fuckin heartbreaking.

    116. Effijy says:

      Ian B-

      Absolutely Ian.

      Where is the SNP rejection statements on GERS.
      As far as I can see nothing onTV, Radio, Press or any
      Internet site I’ve seen?

      Not that I give a damn about Labour but where is this supposedly
      Main party of opposition holding this completely corrupt Tory Party?

      SNP need a Wee Black Book and they need it now!

    117. Breeks says:

      OT… I’d never even heard of this.

      Quite incredible that such a thing took place just 52 years after the Battle of Prestonpans, the impact of which must have been as fresh a yesterday to the people of Tranent as the late 1960’s are to us… easily living memory.

      I was born and grew up less than 50 miles away from this, and my Dad even came from Dunbar, but I never once heard tell of the massacre. Taught at school? Ha ha ha. You jest. They didn’t even teach me about the Battle of Prestonpans.

      https://twitter.com/SugarspotAnnie/status/1299636938308308992

      By the way, Bruce Fummey who narrates the story is thoroughly excellent, and has quite a few cracking videos on YouTube to watch. He has a great talent for storytelling, and I look forward to an Independent Scotland when all of Scotland’s History is re-evaluated for objective truth without the filtration of Britishness.

      I can’t think of anyone better than Bruce Fummey to dispel the lies and misrepresentations of the BBC’s pet bullshitter, Neil Oliver.

    118. Willie says:

      RoS @9.28

      Yes some of the old stalwarts have announced that they are standing down at the next election. But that does not mean they are going away.

      Nicola Sturgeon may act with the swank of a woman who thinks it will be her god given right to lead the next government. But that assumes two things. Firstly that her party support her, and secondly that the electors will actually vote her in the numbers that she arrogantly assumes.

      Well a lot can happen between now and next May. Like the old Scottish Kings they are there by the grace of the people.

      Already there is huge dissatisfaction within the grass roots membership and beyond. Sturgeon may think that she and her coterie have control but in truth that control is fragile. Were tens of thousands of disaffected members to walk, and by walk I mean to another party, then Nicola Surgeon’s position becomes very tenuous.

      Indeed, were some MSPs to walk and resign the whip before the end of the Parliament, things could change dramatically. There would now be a viable alternative to the SNP, ready and to electorally sweep the board with second list votes. Indeed, they could take constituency seats too were they to tell Nicola to stand down her manipulated woke minority interest candidate.

      Yes, Sturgeon’s perceived invincibility may well be her undoing. Yes we want a strong SNP on message and committed to independence supported by a supermajority list party. But Nicola has to play ball, because if she doesn’t, and continues as she’s going, events may overwhelm her.

    119. cirsium says:

      @IanB,12.12

      Good post. Disgraceful situation which makes me extremely angry.

    120. Lenny Hartley says:

      IB well said , the Holyrood Swamp needs emptying , if the shiny arses in Holyrood think they are on a gravy train for life they are in for a shock. A Politically motivated population which has shaken off the shackles of Westminster aint gonna allow those corrupt westminster practices to just transfer to Holyrood.

    121. JGedd says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood

      Excellent, Ian. What I would like to have said! That is what my vote for independence is all about. Independence is just a means to an end. If it’s not about about making things better for those children then it’s not worth fighting for.

      I read people saying that we have to hold our noses and vote SNP if we want independence and I understand why they say that but I find myself thinking, that that is a desperate situation to be in, that we should ignore any reservations about those who stand as MSPs and MPs.

      It is an unhealthy situation for democracy to be asked to give unconditional loyalty to politicians. Those on that side of the argument do not acknowledge that it is going against ideas of democracy to demand that I should swallow my doubts and simply vote. I need to believe as they believe and I find it harder and harder to do that.

      Decades of experience have bred in me a natural distrust of politicians so I do not welcome people waving away my concerns, which requires me to simply smother those realistic doubts and become voting fodder.

      I don’t tell others how they should vote – that is a personal decision for them and like me, not one that they will have arrived at lightly. I envy them their certainty. It is not comfortable to have one’s beliefs ( though conditional in my case) called into question.

      Ian’s post reminds me about what matters more than the machinations of politicians and that is the future of those children born without opportunity. It is for a society which mitigates the past and provides a wothwhile future for our children.

      People have often cited as one reason for having an independent Scotland is that with a smaller polity, we should be better able to hold politicians to account. ‘Let them be close enough to slap’ if they forget themselves and forget why they were elected.

      It is a recognition that politicans can become entrenched within a party’s power base and lose sight of why they were elected or worse, were never honest about their intentions in the first place. It goes against the grain of democracy, surely, to have politicians become assured of our votes no matter what they do. They should, quite rightly, be wary about losing the loyalty of their voters.

    122. Colin Alexander says:

      If any candidate or party stands for independence, let me know, I’ll vote for indy.

      If they call themselves “pro-indy” or “pro-indyref” etc but what they are wanting is to be MSPs in Holyrood, administering British colonialism, then don’t bother letting me know – I already know about Sturgeon’s SNP and won’t be voting for them.

    123. cirsium says:

      @PacMan, 10.59
      “The only recovery from covid is through a vaccine.”

      I wish we could get away from this narrative. The flu has been around for ever and there is no cure for it. Other viruses has vaccines but they still come back.

      I too wish we could get away from this narrative. “The Key to defeating COVID-19 already exists. We need to start using it” Professor Harvey A Risch, Yale School of Public Health http://archive.is/9ObS6

    124. Clapper57 says:

      @ Ian B @ 12.12pm

      Hi Ian, like others on here I too agree that your comment was well said……you have a way of writing that shows you write from the heart and that is a special quality.

      @ JGedd @ 1.58pm

      Excellent comment too.

      Have a nice day both of you

    125. gus1940 says:

      Is it within the power of the Scottish Government to introduce a law whereby ALL businesses operating in Scotland but owned/HQ’d elsewhere would be required to produce a full set of accounts every year covering their Scottish operations?

    126. Republicofscotland says:

      Richard what’s his name..ummh, never mind, walked past me at my local ASDA, with his Labour red mask on, he had the look of a man waiting to be tapped on the shoulder and told he has been found out.

    127. Stan Broadwood says:

      I have never really thought about doing this before, but I would seriously consider NOT voting for the SNP at next year’s Hollyrood election.

      Sturgeon has a major speech next week laying out her plans for government for the next 12 Months.

      If Independence is not at the forefront of her thoughts and is somehow squeezed in at the end as an afterthought, then I will not be voting SNP next year.

      I have never said or even thought of doing this, but enough is enough.

      I am sick to the back teeth of Sturgeon dancing round the issue of Independence.

      This might lead to the Unionists having a majority at Holyrood,,,well so be it.

      If they close the fuckin place down,,,well so be it.

      If it leads to Direct Rule being reinstated,,, well so be it.

      Scotland and the Scottish electorate need a shock to their cushy system.

      If it means the whole Devolution project comes crashing down,,, well bring it on.

      And don’t blame people like me for what happens after that.

      BLAME THAT UNIONIST BASTARD NICOLA STURGEON!!!

    128. susan says:

      @Stan, in my darker moments I’m inclined to think like you, hopefully it won’t come to that.

      Excellent post IanB!

    129. Effijy says:

      Was that Dick Leotard’s face just red with embarrassment at
      His interruptions at Holyrood.

      If Labour gave him a mask it would have eye holes in it.

    130. Robert Louis says:

      Is it not now totally clear that Nicola Sturgeon has zero intention of pushing for independence, and will talk about anything other than independence. Worse than that however, she and her husband are re-making the SNP into a pro devolution and no more, party.

      Covid has been a great excuse for Nicola Sturgeon to do not a damn thing for independence. Other world leaders are still getting on with their electoral commitments, she is not. Given what she has said recently, even if they do get a majority in May 2021, it will mean nothing.

      Even if Boris gave her a section 30, she would likely set the campaign timeline to just beyond the next again Scot parliament election – by which time, she and her hubby will have retired to a rather handsome pension pot, thank you very much.

      As she has no desire for indy, why doens’t she just go now, and let somebody who actually gives a f*** about Scotland take over??

      We have Boris the murderous clown and his psycopathic cabal in London, and the most supine, pathetic Scots leader in history in Bute house. Scotland has no hope left.

    131. Thomas says:

      @ Stan.

      Geez peace will ye?

      Is that the most stupid post i have ever read on wings over scotland , lets no vote the snp so the unionists will win .

      …cause they are gonnae gie us indy arent they?FFS!

      Stan , ma mate wee davie was diagnosed as a mute yesterday.

      I thought “feck me he kept that quiet.”

    132. CameronB Brodie says:

      Further to Ian B’s comment earlier, social polarisation will only deepen in Brexitania, which lacks an inclusive legal culture, so is incapable of supporting universal rights (see Brexit and sundry applications of British ‘justice’).

      Politicizing Social Inequality: Competing Narratives From the Alternative for Germany and Left-Wing Movement Stand Up

      This article investigates the link between rising levels of social inequality and years of austerity on the one hand and the rise of populist, anti-establishment protest on the other. This connection is explored by analyzing the discursive practices of activists as a way of reconstructing the key argumentative and emotional structures organizing actors’ understanding of politics.

      Empirically the article is based on 40 narrative interviews with supporters of the German right-wing, anti-immigrant party, Alternative for Germany (AfD), and the newly established left-wing movement Stand Up. The findings of the discursive analysis point to a profound sense of exclusion amongst left- and right-wing populist affiliates defined both in socio-economic terms and with a view to being deprived of a proper political voice.

      At the same time, the results show that the supporters of the AfD, in contrast to those from Stand Up, develop a strong, mobilizing collective identity that is instrumental in popularizing their discontent with the political establishment: The dramatized conflict between the virtuous German people and the threatening Other – manifested primarily by immigrants and the European Union – provides an emotionally charged binary that is at the core of the contemporary populist resurgence across Western democracies.

      In addition, the collective identity is instrumental in offering a particular interpretation of the origins of and desirable response to growing inequality that rely more on culturalist rather than traditional class-based arguments. Building on this analysis, the article offers an interpretation of the relative weakness of the populist left that, in the German context, so far has not succeeded in using deepening socio-economic cleavages for their political mobilization effectively.

      https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2020.00013/full

    133. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m confident things will only get worse in Brexitania, as it’s essentially a new constitutional entity formed through a right-wing populist rejection of deliberative constitutionalism. It also articulated English racism towards Scotland, which has been totally excluded from the processes of constitutional government.

      Movements of exclusion : radical right-wing populism in the Western world
      https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Movements-of-exclusion-%3A-radical-right-wing-in-the-Rydgren/b7aca8ab58eb9ab1084b217c813020b96e887b95

    134. Robert Graham says:

      Robert Louis ‘@ 3:53

      Boris couldn’t have picked a better opponent then , what could be simpler he just has to sit tight and let our lot do just what he wants and thats Nothing , Not a ducking thing ,

      The electoral Con has been sewn up ,independence supports cant go anywhere else and we cant Duck the SNP over because thats the only route so far to a second Indy vote ,

      Well played bawjaws a political stalemate no moves possible , even if a new party is set up it will take years to get up and running ,

      Meanwhile we are ducked because with a 80 seat majority the tory party can change the whole country beyond recognition ,

      Like it or not you have to admire a good well thought out Trap, a master class in how to duck a whole country and the mugs “US” still haven’t realised its happend

    135. Wee Chid says:

      Robert Louis says:
      30 August, 2020 at 3:53 pm

      I’m kind of hoping that she will use the excuse of the stress of Covid to stand down for health reasons – not that I’ve any evidence – it’s just the only hope I have left to which to cling. Otherwise – as you say – we’re f****d.

    136. CameronB Brodie says:

      The thing is, Scotland’s civic society is being damaged through union with England (see Brexit). That wasn’t the intention of the original Treaty of Union, and is incompatible with social democracy and liberal constitutionalism.

      Comparative European Politics volume 16, pages 937–953 (2018)
      Left-wing regionalist populism in the ‘Celtic’ peripheries: Plaid Cymru and the Scottish National Party’s anti-austerity challenge against the British elites

      Abstract

      The article shows how the main regionalist parties in Scotland and Wales – the Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru – have engaged with a populist discourse in the wake of the Great Recession. Based on a qualitative analysis of party manifestos and party-elite interviews, the article shows that the two parties have adopted a left-wing populist discourse, based on a critique of austerity policies.

      In this way, albeit from distinctively regionalist perspective, they performed roles very similar to that of other contemporary left-wing populist parties, particularly in Southern Europe. The Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru were able to frame their anti-austerity stances within a populist discourse because all three traditional British parties shared a preference for pro-austerity economic policies.

      Therefore, in Laclau’s terms, the two ‘Celtic’ parties’ attack on austerity constituted an open challenge to the hegemonic discourse of the British ‘power bloc’. Analogous to the expansion of a right-wing anti-establishment protest in British politics (monopolized by the UKIP), the two parties (particularly the Scottish one) capitalized on the expansion of a left-wing populist area. This strategy has lately become less viable because Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party broke with the pro-austerity consensus among British elites.

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s41295-018-0136-z

    137. Elmac says:

      Re Breeks @ 1.02pm

      That was utterly moving. I have never heard of the massacre of Tranent before, let alone Bruce Fummey who I must say was excellent. It would appear that the details of this incident arose by accident, through the record of a court action taken by the “authorities” against a newspaper who had the temerity to report what happened. It makes you wonder how many more acts of depravity were committed by this “Union” where there was no accidental record to bear witness to what these a**holes visited on Scotland. The parcel of rogues who sold out our country to relieve their own debts should be cursed for eternity.

      I know we cannot live in the past but we continue to bear the scars of the forced union of 1707. The crimes committed by the establishment to maintain that union have perhaps become more subtle than days of yore but remain deadly nevertheless. Our population has been ravaged by London ecocentric policies and an economy structured to benefit the rich and powerful at the expense of the poor. Our country has been asset stripped and our best and brightest forced to emigrate to realise their potential. Our core industries have been obliterated.

      Many thousands of Scots have suffered early deaths through poverty and desolation as a direct result of this “Union”. I am not an anarchist, I believe in government of the people for the people, but what I do not believe in is government by a few rich fat cats for their sole benefit. It is well past time when the people of Scotland must seize their own destiny. We cannot allow those of us who stick their heads over the parapet on our behalf such as Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Manni Singh et al to be targeted by a disgusting regime which has pervaded every part of our official lives. Come on Scotland stand up and be counted, it is time to fight back and reclaim our country.

    138. James F. McIntosh says:

      Surely the indie movement could crowd fund their local alternative independence candidate in every constituency before next May or this year if necessary but would the SNP supporters switch to ensure we have a ref.?

    139. Stan Broadwood says:

      Thomas 4pm

      So what do you recommend,,, another 5 years of Sturgeon???

      Another 5 years of her Devolution???

      Where she can push through more Woke policies.

      More GRA?
      More Hate Crime Bills?
      More of trying to jail innocent men or women

      I would rather the place was shut down than another 5 years of Sturgeon.

      So if she doesn’t push hard for indyRef2 at next year’s Hollyrood election, then I will not be voting SNP.

      And I hope many others follow my actions.

      Because Scotland needs a good kick in the chuckies to awaken it from it’s slumber.

      Sick to fuckin death of Sturgeon and her Woke Brigade

    140. Elmac says:

      For the first time I can a comment I posted has been put into moderation. The only potentially offensive words were “Come on Scotland stand up and be counted, it is time to fight back and reclaim our country.” I take pleasure if these words may cause offence to a unionist but otherwise I fail to see what the issue is. If the offensive word is fight, then of course it has many connotations, the main one in this situation being to resist by all legal means.

    141. North chiel says:

      “ Gus 1940 @0241 p.m. “ Creative “ unionist “accountants from “ Head office” would “ adjust” the figures to suit Gus. These companies with London HQ’s operating in Scotland invariably have all “ back office” admin jobs in their London HQ ( ie HR, payroll, Health & safety , training , IT , legal , etc etc ) These admin costs which are substantially higher than what the equivalent “ local” admin costs would be for obvious reasons / London office costs , staff costs etc are then applied supposedly on a pro rata basis against “Scottish” operational profits . This makes the “ Scottish operation “ look to be “ less profitable “ . The name of the game for these London HQ’d companies is Admin jobs in London and not Scotland, In the case of a company I used to work for I estimate that these Admin jobs could be done locally in Scotland at Less than half the costs of London , and at the same time this would be providing jobs for our local economy. However, as I said previously , the name of the game is to make their “ Scottish operation “ ( usually with a compliant bought & paid for branch manager) , pay for these London HQ jobs .
      Thus , they can adjust these “ inflated” overhead costs pro rata to make the profitability of the Scottish operation appear to be significantly less than what it would be with a complete stand alone Scottish company . ( A bit like the GERS deception at government level) .
      Unfortunately, there must be hundreds of these companies operating in Scotland with these “ London HQ’s , living off the backs of their Scottish operation.

    142. twathater says:

      Thomas @ 4pm I must be as stupid as Stan then , but as you are the one calling people STUPID let’s hear your version of how we are going to get independence

      Snp NS let’s have indy ref as PROMISED, NAW, sect30 NAW,covid and economic fallout TOO IMPORTANT for indy ref , GRA and HCB very very important

      GERS and Scottish Gov REAL GERS as promised , TUMBLEWEED
      REBUTTAL UNIT , TUMBLEWEED
      £3 Million to MSM to fight AGAINST INDY
      £0 Zero to Broadcast Scotland , Phantom Power to fight FOR INDY
      Head of Comms unit in SNP to man who devised the VOW and is responsible for exposing MSM LIES , TUMBLEWEED
      Scottish central bank , TUMBLEWEED
      NATIONAL energy company , TUMBLEWEED
      LEGAL CHALLENGE , TUMBLEWEED
      EU forced removal , SHITE and TUMBLEWEED
      AS Trials
      Hirst and Murray trials
      Manny Singh trial
      I could go on but there are some people who just CANNOT see

      Yes indeed Thomas some of us are stupid

    143. Confused says:

      Is it “phone posters” who produce all the weirdly formatted, badly paragraphed, scroll-on-by gibberish?

      – the comment box has a preview function.

    144. CameronB Brodie says:

      I may be very out of practice, but the threat that right-wing populism poses to social democracy is still a current topic of institutional concern, as it was thirty years ago. So I think my skills may have just become bankable. 🙂

      Causes and consequences of the rise of populist radical right parties and movements in Europe

      Abstract

      This article reviews three strands in the scholarship on the populist radical right (PRR). It covers both political parties and extra-parliamentary mobilization in contemporary European democracies.

      After definitional issues and case selection, the authors first discuss demand-side approaches to the fortunes of the PRR. Subsequently, supply-side approaches are assessed, namely political opportunity explanations and internal supply-side factors, referring to leadership, organization and ideological positioning.

      Third, research on the consequences of the emergence and rise of these parties and movements is examined: do they constitute a corrective or a threat to democracy? The authors discuss the growing literature on the impact on established parties’ policies, the policies themselves, and citizens’ behaviour. The review concludes with future directions for theorizing and research.

      Keywords
      Anti-immigration parties, far right, populism, radical right, social movements

      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0011392117717294

    145. Stuart MacKay says:

      PacMan @10:59am

      I didn’t say there would be a vaccine however a vaccine is the only sure way out of this otherwise you’re in a position of managing the infection and managing all kinds of expectations as a result.

      Given that mortality quickly reaches double digits once people get past the age of 70. I’m not sure governments or populations are ready to get to grips with the dramatic idea of life expectancy having a firm cut-off at 75.

      Perhaps flu started out fatal then as it became more widespread it evolved to be less harmful. It might take a while for the medical profession to develop effective treatments for covid. It took a long time for HIV to get to a manageable state. We might have to live with the current state of a affairs for a while.

      What is clear is that another lock-down is probably going to be needed butthen we’re really at the decision of old people vs the economy. Who’s up for that?

    146. David Caledonia says:

      Prepare for Mr George Galloway, he is coming here for the scottish elections with his Unity Party, and the best and most laughable part of it is, he has joined up with a Conservative guy and they are running this Joke between them, honestly as they say, you could not make it up

    147. Socrates MacSporran says:

      North Chiel @ 5.15pm

      Sometimes they are not even that devious.

      The guys at Ravenscraig got themselves into the position whereby they wre the most-efficient producers of steel in Europe.

      Thatcher and Co still shut it down, because they were: @Too far from their market.”

    148. bipod says:

      The lockdown didn’t protect old folks in the first place so why so it be taken as a given that a second lockdown would be any different.

      There is no evidence that lockdown saves any lives (indeed we already know thanks to the ONS that the lockdown caused an additonal 16,000 deaths between March and May) or even suppresses the spread, this is a highly infectious virus, not something like legionnaires which is much more easily contained given that it is not contagious.

      Deaths of under 50s caused by covid are extremely rare. It is certainly more dangerous for older folks, but it is by no means a death sentence, then again the mortality rate for the flu is also much higher for older people too. Should we lockdown the country every year because of that?

    149. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B 12.12: amen to all that. Most people who have a family member in the primary sector or a food bank know the appalling score. And all this in a country that is richer than Norway across several financial sectors, not just oil. Of course, maybe too many of the SNP MacFabians are a bit too middle class to get as angry as you.

      @Breeks: re Tranent, you might “enjoy” Scotland’s Forgotten Massacre by Sandy Mullay. There’s still a good few cheapo copies on A____n, I believe.

    150. Meg merrilees says:

      Robert Louis and Breeks

      I long to believe what you say about Brexit breaking the Union BUT is it not the case that, on paper, the majority of the people of Scotland voted to remain part of the UK in 2014.

      Now, you and I and many other’s believe that was an untruthful result and the fact is, the 2014 referendum has happened and was unfavourable. Does that change things?

      Is it enough that 60+% of the people of Scotland voted to remain in the EU, does that supersede the 2014 referendum, or did that NO result in 2014 seal us in with the lot of the UK .

    151. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Socrates MacSporran 6.30: spot on re Ravenscraig.

      As I recall, when it was forcibly shut down by the Tories, it was producing large amounts of highly sophisticated steel for BMW. So much for it being “too far from the market”.

      No sacrifice is too great for Scotland to protect England’s economic interests, of course.

      And then, to rub salt into the wound, they thought up GERS.

    152. @Socrates MacSporran,

      my understanding was that when Poland split from USSR the west/EEC wanted to build up Poland and its biggest manufacturing base was steel production,

      so to incease demand for Polish steel in the West they got other countries to shut down their steel mills,

      in return for shutting down our steel mills the UK got car assembly plants which i think is still Englands biggest export earner.

    153. Ron Maclean says:

      I vote for independence in the hope that we get the country we want. I don’t think our First Minister and leader of the SNP wants the country I want.

      Does she want the country we want?

      Is that the country where Mercy Baguma died, the country where children live in poverty, the country where a majority voted to stay in the EU, the country whose justice system places some above the law, the country which condones GERS, the country where Westminster’s vassals live comfortably on the fruits of the First Minister’s inaction?

      Does voting No in 2014 bind us to that Scotland?

    154. Effijy says:

      Indy ref 1 was a complete and utter stitch up.

      The Westminster Media controlled all the TV and Radio stations and all
      37 UK newspapers to peddle biased propaganda 24/7.

      They rigged the postal votes and even opened the ballot boxes before the count.

      They broke the Purda by moving the goal posts at the last minute with the Vow.

      Each and every promise in the Vow was broken.

      If you are happy with propaganda and lies can produce an everlasting result you
      Must believe in Fairy Tales.

      The result was stolen and the blatant abuse of Scotland goes on, until Indy Ref 2.

    155. Pete says:

      Ron McLean
      How come this Mercy Baguma was an asylum seeker when her parents are very wealthy people in Uganda?
      Somebody’s taking the pi… here.
      Would love to know in what way she was fleeing for her life.

    156. Sharny Dubs says:

      I asked a Ghanian friend who has been here for 10 years about the incident and he was completely unaware, said there must be some other circumstance behind the whole thing or he would have heard,

    157. Doug says:

      Time for the SNP/SG to get radical. The people will follow.

    158. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Thanks to those who ‘liked’ my rant earlier today.

      I’m not proud of resorting to such intemperate language but I suppose it does reflect the general frustration at the moment.

      One of the main reasons I’m angry right now is because NS has, intentionally or not, created this division amongst a body of people who, up until the start of this year (well, roughly), were about as united and disciplined as anyone could expect of a movement which has been growing for the fat end of a decade.

      People who marched through all of Scotland’s cities and towns side by side on numerous occasions over the past eight years are now gravitating towards personalities who best express their own interpretation of what’s happening. The most obvious example, on social media at any rate, is the acrimonious and worsening relationship between this place and WGD.

      No-one can read each and every post by Stu Campbell and Paul Kavanagh, and an even totier number can claim to have read all the comments made below the line in both places. But most of the regulars on this place know at least some of the names appearing regularly btl on WGD, and vice-versa.

      The bickering, back-stabbing and general unpleasantness has been obvious for months. It’s reached the point where I honestly dread looking at the comments on WGD.

      And what thanks have the NS faithful had from the woman herself? Are we to believe: that she and her advisers don’t read WOS/WGD?; that they’re not fully aware of the disquiet?; that her flighty (and toe-curlingly unconvincing) dismissal of Wark’s question about the conspiracy rumours would quell rising unease?

      Why hasn’t she even acknowledged that this rift exists and that it is damaging the movement she claims to have devoted her entire life to?

      Because it is damaging it, big-time.

      Rev and Craig Murray and others who are better placed than any of us ‘normal’ commenters to know what’s happening behind the scenes have repeatedly assured us that definitive evidence will emerge soon. Why would any of them state as much unless they were absolutely convinced? The credibility stakes are just too high. Simultaneously, NS insists that she’s looking forward to telling her side of the story? Irresistible force, immovable object…

      So, why the fuck are we chopping the legs off each other day-in, day-out? We don’t know the truth and falling out with each other gets us no closer to it.

      There are some characters who have developed such hatred for Rev Stu that their judgement simply cannot be taken seriously. They know who they are. There are others who have abandoned this place on serious points of principle. They know who they are too, and so do we.

      There’s no escaping the fact that this place remains the premier Scottish political blog. The same argument which maintains that we are all duty-bound to vote SNP as ‘the only vehicle’ (FFS, can’t believe how much I loathe that phrase now…) applies to this place – it doesn’t matter what you think of Rev Stu. It really isn’t important. What matters is that this place retains the impact, the clout we have all helped it build over the past eight years. We owe that to each other, not to to Stuart Campbell or any other individual.

    159. Effijy says:

      Just made it Ian,

      Not seeing a single post during the last full hour
      Had my mind racing as to what was happening elsewhere.

      Wings Posts Matter!

    160. North chiel says:

      Meg Merrilees @0650 p.m . As I see it Meg in Sept 2014 the majority vote in the referendum was for the “ status quo”. Ie. To remain in the UK AND EU . The NO campaign was substantially predicated on a NO vote guaranteeing EU membership whilst supposedly a YES vote would see Scotland out of the EU . At the very least this ensured that the vast majority of EU nationals voted NO .
      Consequently, the 62 percent Scottish vote in 2016 surely reinforces the the sovereign wishes of the Scottish people as regards the status quo part relating to continued EU membership.
      As we are now out Of the EU then surely the 2014 referendum result is now questionable or even Invalid re the wishes of the people of Scotland ?

    161. Stan Broadwood says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Enjoyed your rant.

      But I am serious about binning my SNP vote next year if Sturgeon is not going to fully commit to indyRef2.

      If the Unionists gain a majority and the whole rotten House of Cards falls,,,then so be it.

      On Sturgeon’s head may the blame fall.

      Sick to death of the whole fuckin SNP set up.

    162. Beaker says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says:
      30 August, 2020 at 9:51 pm
      “Thanks to those who ‘liked’ my rant earlier today.
      I’m not proud of resorting to such intemperate language but I suppose it does reflect the general frustration at the moment.”

      Everyone loses it from time to time, and it’s a good safety valve. Just don’t hit the PC/Laptop or whatever. I once hit a computer monitor (many) years ago and it blew up.

    163. Stoker says:

      @IanB & twathater

      Yous are welcome!
      __________

      Wee Chid says on 30 August, 2020 at 11:30 am
      “From Nicola Sturgeon “We cannot, and should not, let this virus define our futures.” Is that not exactly what she is doing – shelving independence to deal with fall out from the virus?”

      Yip! That’s exactly what she’s doing whilst all other countries & their leaders get on with elections & referendums etc. It is my belief the real reason she’s doing this is so she can make sure her focus is on the mess she’s embroiled in up to her royal reptile-wrinkled neck. To make sure her own velvet-cushioned arse is covered.

      Whatever the reason(s) there is absolutely no justification for the lies she’s told us or the S30 stance which only benefits her & Murrell. I’m not even going to bother mentioning all the other things. Put it this way, it’s a bad day when mummy has to state how much her daughter believes in independence.

    164. Beaker says:

      There are rumours that at least 5 of the Glasgow Citizen Advice Bureau offices are going to close due to cuts in funding by Glasgow City Council. From what the CAB have said the councillors have yet to look at the proposals.

      I just hope to hell they aren’t being serious. I’ve used their services a couple of times and they were a lifeline.

    165. Tannadice Boy says:

      Reinforced by all the evidence that Stu and others have put forward some people correctly believe an IndyRef is not coming anytime soon. I don’t feel it, I don’t see it, the Indy apparatus has been dismantled. How many organisations promoting Indy are still in existence?. Anybody outside Dundee hear of the Arabs for independence? Active during 2014. And successful in their own way. Raised funds etc. Nope that’s what I thought and there was very many of these organisations. Diverse from the SNP and a good bunch. Lost to the cause.

    166. Stan Broadwood says:

      Yes, it must be the weekend again, where, according to our “National” broadcasters, absolutely nothing happens in Scotland, Wales or N Ireland.

      And should Americans start paying the BBC licence fee? Afterall, they get more news coverage made about them than Scotland, Wales and N Ireland combined.

    167. leither says:

      @ianbhood

      maybe wingers post on wgd is cos they have been banned from here?

    168. Stan Broadwood says:

      Tell Sturgeon,,,

      “No indyRef2, then No vote you”.

      The little Dreghorn con artist has fooled you, me, Alex, the whole fuckin lot of us.

    169. Stan Broadwood says:

      “No indyRef2, then No vote for you”

      Because Sturgeon thinks, “no matter what I do, I know these suckers will still vote for me”

      “Because who else are they going to vote for?”

      Yes, that is SNP think.

      They think they can abuse us and lie to us and that we will forget about all that come Polling Day.

      Well I have news for Sturgeon, if you fuck me about any more regarding indyRef2, then there isn’t a hope in hell of you getting my vote.

    170. Effijy says:

      Might as well face it we’re abducted to guff.

      There is no hope in hell of anything significant happening this year relating to independence.

      Many other nations are capable of having elections with the Covid virus so no excuse there.

      The moment Brexit happens and powers are removed from Scotland we must by every means fight
      For our Independence there and then.

      If SNP do nothing in wait for Holyrood elections they are in for a Holly Rude awakening and will be
      Classed as an enemy of this sovereign nation.

      We must have a new Scottish Party formed ASAP.
      I’m sure the many thousands who have dumped SNP already
      Would be happy to pay subscriptions for real peoples party.

    171. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Leither –

      ‘maybe wingers post on wgd is cos they have been banned from here?’

      Yes, some do.

      And some do so as a personal preference.

      And some manage to comment on both without any problem.

      And most of us don’t give a solitary fuck either way.

      My point was that a real division has developed.

      And that’s an unfortunate fact that has to be faced.

      So it goes…

      🙁

    172. Tannadice Boy says:

      *Arabs colloquial for Dundee United supporters.

    173. leither says:

      a real division has developed

      yes it has, thing is ian, not everyone was a big nicola or snp fan, it wasnt a problem before, we just got on with it.

      however, it is because comments from Al-stuart “dreghorn dyke” and the resident troll above are now allowed to stand and mild criticism by long term wingers results in being banned, is the main reason wingers have drifted away.

      sad really. i liked wbb1 but the anti snp narrative on here has ensured there wont be a wbb2

    174. Tannadice Boy says:

      @leither
      I corrected myself on the use of a coloquisam. However your use of acronyms has left me lost. Rephrase for an old guy because genuinely I don’t know what you mean. Or perhaps my vote doesn’t matter. We need every vote!

    175. leither says:

      “the comments from” resident troll above…….

    176. leither says:

      wbb = wee blue book

    177. Tannadice Boy says:

      Thanks I get the wbb now. I ran around in my car for a few days before the vote for people that were desperate for information sharing this book. If wbb had been published beforehand we might have won. The SNP went for the emotional argument. In the end it wasn’t enough. The SNP have to accept their white paper fell short. They have to learn from their mistakes. Collective effort is required. And the wee Indy organisations are important.

    178. Capella says:

      @ leither – I agree. So long as unionist trolls post toxic drivel btl there will be division. Their objective is to demoralise and suppress votes. Judging by some of the comments from site veterans – yes I mean you IB – the tactic has succeeded.
      Keep the heid (as someone once said).

    179. Willie says:

      Reading today that the army are now deployed on patrol in the English Channel to detect and deter migrants.

      Using multi million pound military equipment previously deployed in Afghanistan I think this more than signals the way things are going to go and it is absolutely consistent with detailed contingency planning to deploy troops in Scotland to support the Police should there be any difficulties post the UK’s December departure from Europe.

      The slide towards military control become ever more a reality and one can see how any future independence rallies or marches or political dissent are going to be dealt with. Jailing march organisers or dissident journalists was only the start.

      The Ulsterisation of Scotland has begun and they will hold us by force.

    180. Stu hutch says:

      Stu.think you should get a grip of some of the yoon trolls on here.wos is turning into george galloways afu meeting room.

    181. Rm says:

      what Scotland needs is more independence minded independent MPs and msps, instead of following a party, thinking and speaking for themselves and for the people who vote them in, or use the SNP party as an umbrella with more freedom to push for independence in different ways, is the SNP being run like a dictatorship.

    182. Gullane No 4 says:

      The Independence movement seems to be morphing into the same state of thinking by the Clan chiefs before Flodden Field.

      Overwhelming numbers, strong starting position but victory thrown away by petty self interest resulting in frustration and poor decision making.
      Very sad to see this unfold before my eyes.

    183. Ottomanboi says:

      Rm
      Scotland could do with leaders who can see beyond what they’re supposed to be, county councillors. Holyrood is effectively a glorified county council, it gets the quality appropriate to the job.The model is the old NI Stormont parliament. That was stuffed with the second rate and didnt work either.
      Fortunately, the Covid-19 effect is exposing just how badly countries are governed by their self selecting ‘élites’. Currently running around like headless turkeys.
      The real virus is globalism.

    184. Socrates MacSporran says:

      A very good piece of debujnking by Prof Robertson’s The Tusker this morning, knocking a great big hole inDross’s lie about standing up for Scottish farming and our food standards, having already voted to allow in inferior grade American food – the notorious chlorinated chicken.

      And, in The Guardian, the odious Severin Carroll repeats the lie from Dross, Alistair Jackass and Co.

      They must really think Scotland’s combined heads button up the back.

    185. Stan Broadwood says:

      Any division in the Yes Movement is caused by Sturgeon.

    186. Stan Broadwood says:

      Wee Ginger Dug lovers come on here and try to convince us that their Nicola really isn’t this monster we are making her out to be.

      Trust me,,, she is.

    187. Republicofscotland says:

      Well when I said Richard, erm..thingy Labour branch office leader in Scotland, looked like a man waiting for a tap on the shoulder to tell him he’d been found out ( I saw him outside ASDA yesterday) it looks like I was right.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18686281.holyrood-elections-group-labour-msps-call-richard-leonard-resign/

    188. John H. says:

      Ian Brotherhood:9.51pm.

      I fully agree with what you have said Ian. I have voted SNP since I was twenty one. I’m seventy four now. I voted Labour once in a futile hope of helping to prevent Margaret Thatcher taking power. I only joined the SNP in 2014 like many others, to show support for the SNP and to keep the dream of independence alive.

      Who would have thought then that the main threat to gaining independence would have come from within the SNP itself. A man and wife team seem to have gained total power over the party, and created a weird cult of followers whose beliefs and priorities are not mine. I believe Stuart Campbell and Craig Murray when they say that Nicola Sturgeon is not interested in independence, having other priorities of her own.

      Although there is no direct evidence of this yet, the treatment of Alex Salmond, the lack of any campaign or encouragement to move us forward towards our goal, and the reluctance to even mention the word independence, worries me greatly. This situation cannot go on for much longer. Something has to give if the party and movement are not to be seriously damaged.

    189. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      I see that Dross is proposing upgrading the M8 to 3 lanes.

      Has he noticed that the majority of the overbridges would have to be demolished and replaced as when the thing was designed and built for 2 lanes no consideration was given to any future widening to 3 lanes.

      He also wants to speed up the times on the Edinburgh to Glasgow rail line. Has it escaped his notice that vast sums have only recently been spent on electrification and upgrade of the line to achieve that?

    190. David Caledonia says:

      Little Gordon Stracken when manager of Celtic was having a press conference with sports reporters inside parkhead
      It came to the end and gordon said, ok guys that’s it or words to that affect
      One guy did not seem to realise that gordon was answering no more questions and he shouted out, gordon can I have a quick word, quick as a flash we gordon said yes, velocity,
      That is why Nicola Sturgeon is keeping stum, cause all they do is twist what you say, wee gordon new their game and so does Nicola Sturgeon, when the time comes, the answers will be given and not before, why give them room to make up their lies and twist what you say into their own narrative.
      Martin O’Neill when manager of Celtic was asked would he sell Henrick Larsson to Manchester United if he was offered 30 million quid for him, Martin replied we would consider any offer for our players.
      Daily Record sports page next day, Martin O’Neill willing to sell Henrick Larsson to Manchester United, that my friends is what they do, whether its football or politics they twist what you say time after time

    191. cirsium says:

      @Gullane,8.29am

      Wrong battle. The Scottish Army at Flodden was a good representation of the community of the Realm, united behind their king. The Scots lost because of the wrong tactics and incorrect use of the new types of weapon they had bought.

      Culloden might more appropriate where a skilled guerrilla army was ordered by an incompetent leader to fight a pitched battle against a standing army armed with artillery.

    192. Meg merrilees says:

      Gus 1940

      re Glasgow Edonburgh

      Has it also escaped his notice that a rather large hole has appeared in the Union Canal ( a portent surely!!!) which will take a lot of time, effort and money to repair and will need to be checked by engineers as to its weather-worthiness along its length.

      Perhaps it is a metaphor for the Treaty of 1707?



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