But Then Again Maybe Not
These paragraphs are all from the same story.
The Hate Crime Act has rather faded into obscurity after the furore surrounding its introduction, with the police apparently just trying to pretend it doesn’t exist by ignoring thousands and thousands of complaints, and the useless Scottish commentariat duly proclaiming as a result that it was all just a big fuss about nothing.
But as soon as everyone stopped looking at it, there it was.
The story, which has occupied vast numbers of column inches for days (the Daily Mail alone has run FIVE pieces about it, the Jewish Chronicle has also piled in repeatedly, and the whole thing appears to have been mostly whipped up by the Telegraph’s chief theatre critic Dominic Cavendish), is a big fat nothing in which everyone EXCEPT Reginald D Hunter appears to have acted like a tiresome arse.
An Israeli couple in the audience at one of his Fringe shows reacted huffily to a very mild joke about Israel, Hunter fired back an equally mild put-down, and the couple then decided to announce their nationality to the crowd, which was met with predictable hostility from some awful tedious “FREE PALESTINE!” types accusing the couple of being genocidal psychopaths, etc etc.
Nobody got hurt, the couple left after a brief shouting match and in a normal sane world that would have been that. Everybody hates hecklers, and Hunter’s retort is both restrained and factually correct. But now, of course, it’s a nationwide shrieking fit, professional whiners are throwing in their tuppence-worth, Hunter has had to issue an “apology”, he’s had at least one upcoming show cancelled, and the police are involved.
People with no sense of humour – or at least, who have a sense of humour about everything but themselves – shouldn’t go to comedy shows. (Reg D Hunter has been doing comedy for 20 years and nobody has any excuse for not knowing that he might be a bit indelicate, least of all Dominic Cavendish.)
If you go to a comedy show and you don’t like a joke, don’t laugh. If you don’t like ANY of the jokes, get up and leave. What you shouldn’t do is loudly start reviewing the show from your chair, because then everyone else – who paid to see the comedian, not listen to you whinging about them – will want to kick your head in for ruining their expensive evening out.
(Why is it only supposedly acceptable in comedy? You wouldn’t rock up to a play and suddenly loudly declare “Hey! This isn’t ‘a transcendentally profound and moving piece of epoch-making theatre’ like it says on the poster at all! It’s boring!”, would you? Or at least, certainly not without expecting a hefty dose of flak from the stage.)
And they’ll want to do it more the longer you go on, and doubly so if you then start angrily demanding in response that you ought to be entitled to special consideration because of your identity and sensitivity.
(What’s the performer supposed to do? Hand out a questionnaire at the door asking if there are any jokes that are off-limits because you might be offended by them? By the time you’ve ruled out each audience member’s personal trigger issues all you’re going to be left with is the chicken crossing the road, except the vegans would probably bleat about that too.)
Hecklers are wankers, and the people screaming about Palestine at them are wankers (because the problem is that they’re heckling, not that they’re Israeli), but if we called the cops every time someone in Scotland was a wanker we’d be in a fine old pickle.
It’s not Police Scotland’s job to be theatre critics, where a one-star review means a jail sentence. And if anything that happened at Reginald D Hunter’s Fringe show this week is a hate crime, then the Hate Crime Act is the biggest joke of all.
Imagine how advanced we would be as a species if we didn’t waste time on such paltry matters.
He should be free to say things that some consider anti-semitic.
His critics should similarly be free to criticize what they characterize as his anti-semitism.
Freedom works both ways.
The trouble comes when the law and the police get involved.
Speech laws, whether in 1918 (Russia), 1933 (Germany) or 2021 (Scotland), always mean intimidation and censorship.
We now live in a country where denunciation has replaced debate. We are the Simpsons without the burning torches.
Personally, I don’t mind hecklers… but if you’re going to indulge in it you’ve got to appreciate there’ll be incoming directed straight back at you.
So, whilst this nonsense has undoubtedly been uncomfortable for all concerned, it has also been educational in that the Israeli couple now know the depth of feeling ordinary people outside their bubble might have about the current situation.
If they didn’t like the hurty feels, just think how the innocent Palestinians feel about the actual bombing. Sticks and stones…
I wonder if he can take police Scotland to court for loss of earnings.
A comedian, at a comedy show, telling jokes. do you think he’s joking??
Jerry Sadowitz should just retire now.
I have to concede, I’m a little confused on the correct etiquette here and would value some guidance which is consistent.
Which is the acceptable response?
Is it (a) that the audience who paid good money to be entertained have as much right as the artist to express an opinion in such circumstances – as claimed in this passage:
“If you go to a comedy show and you don’t like a joke, don’t laugh. If you don’t like ANY of the jokes, get up and leave. What you shouldn’t do is loudly start reviewing the show from your chair, because then everyone else – who paid to see the comedian, not listen to you whinging about them – will want to kick your head in for ruining their expensive evening out.
Though in this specific instance no physical violence, only verbal abuse, occurred.
Is it (b) that only the artist and not the paying audience have the right to express a view? As detailed in this passage:
“An Israeli couple in the audience at one of his Fringe shows reacted huffily to a very mild joke about Israel, Hunter fired back an equally mild put-down, and the couple then decided to announce their nationality to the crowd, which was met with predictable hostility from some awful tedious “FREE PALESTINE!” types accusing the couple of being genocidal psychopaths, etc etc.
Is it (c) that the paying audience only have the right to extract physical violence rather than simple verbal abuse? As detailed in the final part of the first quote, above:
“kick (their) head in for ruining their expensive evening out.”
Or is it (d) that the right of a paying audience to respond in such a situation is restricted and excludes specific groups, as clearly advised in this passage….
“and the people screaming about Palestine at them are wankers (because the problem is that they’re heckling, not that they’re Israeli)”
….which conveniently erases the context of what they were heckling about to deny the relevance of that contextual response.
Thanks in advance.
Just this week here in Australia an acclaimed concert pianist, Jayson Gillham, was “cancelled” after he introduced a new composition by describing it correctly.
With “cancel culture” and the weaponizing of “anti-semitism” to silence all criticism, that wasn’t very surprising. Extremely wrong and disturbing, yes. But not surprising if anyone’s been paying attention.
What was interesting about his case was that within a few days (no doubt because of the “Streisand effect” it caused), the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra apologised for the “error” while basically trying to hold the same line they used to cancel him in the first place.
I saw Reginald D a few years ago, he was OK but I wouldn’t pay to see him again. That’s what anyone should do if they’re not entertained.
it’s like anudda shoah …
negro better learn his manners and know his place
as len cohen sang : “old black joe’s still pickin cotton … ”
jews > negros
trannies > lesbians > women
BAME > white
homos > normal
women > men
immigrants > natives
and so on.
“which was met with predictable hostility from some awful tedious “FREE PALESTINE!” types” So people who protest a genocide by an apartheid state are awful tedious people in your opinion? Then I’m proud as hell to be an awful tedious person.
Lets face it – its only because the couple are Jewish, that any action is being taken against Mr Hunter – and the pro-Jewish media are quick to jump on that.
If Mr Hunter had been say a Muslim, or a Hindu – or even a Sikh, I doubt any action would’ve been taken against Mr Hunter.
Political correctness has seriously damaged stand-up comedy – to the point that, I’d imagine many good stand-up comedians – are afraid to delve into certain areas to make good comedy.
Baffling by Eastwood Theatre. A couple of years ago when Janey Godleys racist history came to light , multiple complaints made to Eastwood theatre about her upcoming shows there were met with the response that as an arts venue it was not their job to police the language used by performers and Godleys shows went ahead.
I think , whatever anyone’s views on Godley , her comments were infinitely worse than Reginald Hunters.
Was the joke about Israel, or about Jews?
If it was about Israel then the courts are going to get rather busy because most, if not all, of Scots have told jokes about our dear naybours next door. (Not a joke, our neighbours are *very* expensive and only know the word *No*.)
Perhaps we should make Reginald D Hunter the first recipient of the Thomas Aikenhead Award.
The SNP – the gift that keeps on giving; yet, the Brit parties are no better.
I came to this new article after giving up an online search to find a list of media outlets which Sam Bankman Fried had donated to, it appears to have been memory holed. What I did find was puff pieces on him from at least one of those media outlets, Vox. Other pieces which I am amazed are still up documented his family connections to the Clintons via his parents teaching at Stamford. For those who notice his aunt is a Dean at Colombia. Something which was also mentioned in an article was how his image was cultivated along with donations to woke causes such as LGBTQ+ as a smokescreen for the true purpose of his donations which was furthering the careers of both Democrat and, to a lesser extent as far as numbers of donations went, Republican politicians who were devoted to a certain country outwith the US. The only person who outdid him donation wise was GS.
@Confused, as Len also sang “first we’ll take Ardossan then we’ll take Cathkin.”
As a self-identifying expert on hate and hate crime, I find the joke does not breach the hate threshold.
It’s not very funny though, and if it’s indicative of the rest of his show, I might be moved to feelings close to hatred if I’d shelled out big time for tickets.
As a long-suffering Scottish tax payer, I’m also hating yet more waste and abuse of my taxes, just one day after the moderately hated Shona Robison was all over the MSM to excuse the ginormous pending cuts to ScotGov spending, arising from her government’s incompetence, mismanagement and woke virtue signalling.
Such as her government’s hateful Hate Crimes bill, for example.
Apart from the main point here about the chilling effect of the hate crime movement, we now have a very vocal, and amplified (often by non-Jews who claim to be anti anti-Semitism) group of people in eveyone’s faces telling you constantly that Jews are Israel and Israel is Jews and criticising Israel is anti-semetic. Compare that to Russians right now. Plenty of Russians who criticise the Russian state get amplified or supported. Imagine the opposite; that every Russian who criticised Russia was silenced and the only message we heard was something like “all Russians support Russia” – what would that mean for ordinary, normal, nice, liberal, whatever, Russians?
@Helen Yates
You shouldn’t be proud of being an ignorant person.
The word you use has a precise meaning (funnily enough, just like most other words).
The situation you describe fails to match the meaning of the word. That fact should have been obvious to you for something like 6 months now.
Deliberate mis-representation of reality helps nobody’s cause, not even yours.
Republicofscotland @ 13.34.
To be honest RoS, I greatly doubt that Mr Hunter, or any other comic, would dare to make a jest at the expense of Islam.
I recall the “comic” Alan Davis making a crack about the imaginary friend “Jesus Christ” he used to have. Not a word was said or a sentence printed about it that I ever saw. One wonders would he have made a similar remark about a different faith.
“To be honest RoS, I greatly doubt that Mr Hunter, or any other comic, would dare to make a jest at the expense of Islam.”
Sven.
Well, that shouldn’t be the case, religion – all religions, should be open to comedy – afterall, one really does need a fantastic sense of humour – to actually believe that a God exists in the first place.
As the Scottish singer Paolo Nutini sung, in his amazing song Iron Sky – “We find Gods and Religion to paint us with salvation”
I do not get the anglo-american fetish for «comedy» of the standup sort, however, what is considered funny may not travel even a short distance from source.
It does serve to have the skin of an elephant in this naughty world.
Translation is also fraught with the risk of non comprehension.
RUSSIAN JOKE
Yes, I do wear a Russian made watch, I wear one every day.
Think about it.
Great to hear there are still comedy shows going on at the Fringe these days, not just back to back tiresome one to one interviews with political has beens billed as “entertainment”..
Just saying..
Republicofscotland @ 14.39.
I fear that “what shouldn’t be the case” and what is, in actuality, “the case” differ greatly in almost every area of human activity RoS. Not merely comedy.
I fear that my own fantastic sense of humour requires a greater authority than Paulo Nutini upon which to hang my unprovable spiritual speculations.
And where would the Scottish Hate Crime Bill be if it was not put forward by a Scottish devolved Government from Westminster Scotland Acts that Breaches the articles Treaty of union?
It would not be in Scotland, and here in Scotland there would be free speech and Scots would have freedom of Expression,
Hatey,
Not sure which word of Helen Yates’ you refer to.
Lots of people think Israel is an apartheid state committing genocide.
The ICJ, in its interim ruling on South Africa’s case under the Genocide Convention (at pgh. 30), found “In the Court’s view, at least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the Convention.”
In some countries questioning some of the details of mass killings by Germany nearly 100 years ago can get you jailed, but in the same countries it’s almost compulsory to question in fine detail (if not outright deny) mass killings carried out by Israel today.
Personally, I’m satisfied that both words used by Helen apply to Israel and I’m free to think that – thankfully – for now.
But equally, I’m thankful that other people still have the freedom to deny that Israel is an apartheid state committing genocide, no matter how repugnant and dangerous I personally find such denial.
“Was the joke about Israel, or about Jews?”
Israel.
Republic of Scotland:
Can anyone on here name any comedian who since Charlie Hebdo in 2015, has actually told a joke involving The Prophet or Islamism. Now that would be a lot braver than poking fun at the Jewish Chronicle.
“So people who protest a genocide by an apartheid state are awful tedious people in your opinion?”
If they’re doing it at a comedy show, 100%.
Note to Reginald:
You take the piss out of a country subtly – as in GERS figures.
“I fear that my own fantastic sense of humour requires a greater authority than Paulo Nutini upon which to hang my unprovable spiritual speculations.”
Sven, far be it – for me to impede upon your spiritual speculations – I’m pleased, that you have a fantastic sense of humour – it really helps in life – knowing that I’m sure you won’t mind me adding this.
“When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.”
Robert Pirsig.
—————–
“I fear that “what shouldn’t be the case” and what is, in actuality, “the case” differ greatly in almost every area of human activity RoS. Not merely comedy.”
Such is life Sven, such is life.
So what was the joke?
@Andrew F 4:27
10+ months. 40,000 dead (Humous figures).
1st July 1916 – Somme – over 19,000 British dead.
3rd February to 3rd March 1945 – Manila – over 100,000 Filipino civilians dead. Plus Yanks and Japs.
Nobody applies the ‘G’ word to my latter two examples, or to many of the other horrors with which history is littered. I’ve done my 30 seconds research, your turn now.
But as you write, you find facts-based opinions dangerous, so I’ll defer to your fragility.
One other interesting wrinkle about the ‘G’ word. It’s vanishingly rare for one side to be able to stop it, just by making a few concessions. Take our current concern as an example. It can be stopped by Monday by releasing around 100 hostages, dead or alive, and by a few hundred terrorist fighters and organisers laying down their weapons and going into exile in a neutral ME country.
The facts lead me to the conclusion the Humous boys want the situation to continue indefinitely. That’s not the ‘G’ word. Nobody ever before was enthusiastic about bringing it down on themselves.
I’ll tell you what is dangerous, Andrew, crossing the road. You be careful out there.
From The Guardian:
“A Police Scotland spokesperson said the force was “made aware of a hate incident”, which reportedly took place at an event in Edinburgh on Sunday. All information gathered was fully reviewed and no crime was established.””
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/article/2024/aug/16/scottish-theatre-cancels-reginald-d-hunter-show-over-heckling-of-israelis
Firstly – we had the SNP government -having secret meeting with that vile occupying force in the Levant.
Now – we have the Principal, of one of our prestigious universities – meeting with a diplomat from that nasty military regime.
Scotland’s name, must surely have been blacked by now – with this lot.
“A MEETING between the principal of the University of Edinburgh and I-srael-i deputy ambassador to the UK has been harshly criticised by academics at the institution.
In May, more than 500 staff at the University of Edinburgh signed an open letter calling on senior management to immediately divest from “any company directly involved and complicit with the dispossession of Palestinians living under I-sr-ael-i occupation”.
The letter came in the wake of a student encampment in the Old College quad, where students accused the university of investing millions in companies such as Alphabet and Amazon, which supply the I-s-rael-i government.
https://archive.is/9igzS#selection-1805.3-1827.139
Republicofscotland @ 17.59.
Ah, you’re taking advantage of me by citing one of my favourite writers now, RoS. Between messrs Pirsig & Bach I feel I may very nearly claim my own version of a classic education.
And, indeed, given his history of mental illness Mr Pirsig could well have claimed greater authority in the field of delusion than I.
I’m pleased to find that we share this mutual enjoyment of both zen and motorcycle maintenance in literature. Go well RoS.
@Sven 3:22
I’ve always seen humour as one of the few things in this world that are genuinely binary.
Either everything is potentially funny, or nothing is.
I’m in favour of the former. Not only do I believe I have the right to poke fun at your most sacred cows, but I support your right to poke fun at mine.
There can be no exceptions.
Very sadly, we have already imported a culture that actively mocks our own, yet makes it clear there will be trouble if we respond in kind.
That’s not going to end well.
On Mr Hunter – common sense prevails.
“POLICE confirm “no crime” took place at a Reginald D Hunter comedy gig following a report of a “hate incident” over an I-s-ra–el joke at his Edinburgh Fringe show.”
https://archive.is/FYkQd
Do white heterosexual straight Christian males or females have any protections under the law , or are they just fair game for ANY of the other ethnicity gay religious coloured trans multi gendered fuckwits to complain about or demand apologies from
It is no wonder the far right are gaining so much attention and interest in so many countries when the indigenous natives of those countries feel marginalised and forgotten
As I have posted on here previously,the Aboriginal indigenous natives of Australia were DENIED permanent representation within the Australian parliament in Oct 2023 to protect their ancestral cultures, the ORIGINAL inhabitants ASHAMEDLY were DENIED that representation by INCO MERS and SET TLERS to THEIR country where MANY of the other minority groupings have more power and protections than the ORIGINAL INHABITANTS many western countries are mirroring Australia’s reprehensible behaviour
Wee “John Main”;
There’s a slow turning spit reserved in the fires of hell with your name on it – that’s why everyone here knows you’re a ROASTER.
Hatey McHateface @ 18.29.
I fear that, despite my fantastic sense of humour, my imagination fails to come up with, for instance, a snappy humourous remark concerning cot deaths. Or some other personal tragedies with which I have been involved over the years.
However I’d not grudge you experiencing any comedic aspects of such occurrences which sprang to your ever agile mind.
@Republicofscooby 6:23
Naw!!! Say it isn’t so!!!
Amazon, eh? The barstards.
Now, who’s going to cast the first stone?
More prosaically, who’s going to go cold turkey on their Amazon habit?
No fibbing now. The Big Man upstairs sees all.
More Cancellation Culture. It,s a trend. Who,s behind it?
https://archive.is/Ru7ad
@Sven 6:53
Understood.
Of course, everybody has their sacred cows. Amalgamate all the sacred cows of everybody and there is no subject whatsoever that can be exempted from protection from humour because otherwise, someone, somewhere will be offended.
As I said, it’s binary. Allow one off limits subject and you prepare the ground for every subject to be off limits.
And hence we are where we are. Sliding down the slippery slope to po-faced, rigidly enforced, perpetual finger-wagging, on pain of state-sanctioned censure and ostracism, or worse.
Who.
Republicofscotland @ 6:23 pm
“In May, more than 500 staff at the University of Edinburgh signed an open letter”
While the motive may be right, they don’t necessarily represent the Scottish people as only around 10% of academic staff at UoE are Scottish. Which is similar to the ratio of Scots MPs at Westminster.
Off topic I know but they are really getting to me now.
Angus Robertson having a meeting of support with Israel when Gaza is ongoing and it appears leaked. Swinney again supporting the unsupportable.
Power lines are being built to take green electricity south while Scots have to pay a surcharge to connect and pay international rates for elect. All at a time when a labour government removed the heating allowance. At the same time the labour government plans a new bridge over the thames.
Silence from the SNP.
“I’m pleased to find that we share this mutual enjoyment of both Zen and motorcycle maintenance in literature.”
Sorry to disappoint you Sven – but I’m not a fan of motorcycles, nor Zen, I only quoted Pirsig’s line – because Richard Dawkins was sympathetic towards Pirsig, and his writings.
But hey, although motorcycles don’t float my boat, they do look the part.
Epublicscotland.com @ 20.10.
No problem RoS, as Anatole France is credited with saying, “Vive la difference”. Underlining such beauty and delight as we find in this world through the recognition and extension of our contrasting skills, views and life experiences.
You cannot give offence, you can only take offence. In which case the problem lies with you
I have never seen that comedian in person, but even I know he is not necessarily the sensitive type. His comedy is somewhat ‘robust’. I might go and see him now, just to piss off the whingers. I mean,my goodness, it’s the fringe, FFS. What did the twallies from Israel expect? Fluffy kittens and knock-knock jokes? And just why are Israelis surprised nobody likes them anyway? Seen the news, lately?
Every year now, it seems some wanker will rock up at the fringe, and then whinge about a freaking joke. Boo, f**ing hoo.
As for the police, seriously, FFS. Nothing better to do? are they really going to charge a USA comedian with a hate crime for telling a freaking joke at the Fringe.
WTF is wrong with folk these days? ‘oh, you can’t say that’, or ‘oh, you are cancelled’. Precious, pathetic silly, childish behaviour. If I had been the comedian, I might well have told the whingers to grow the f*** up, it’s a comedy show, so shut the f*** up or f*** the f*** off.
Nobody forced those whingers to go and see that comedian at the fringe.
Rev. Stuart Campbell
16 August, 2024 at 5:22 pm
““So people who protest a genocide by an apartheid state are awful tedious people in your opinion?”
If they’re doing it at a comedy show, 100%.”
100% if they had gone to the comedy show to shout those slogans.
But they hadn’t – they had gone there to hear the comedy and were doing just that, until their enjoyment was disturbed by hecklers, who announced themselves as Israelis.
Then they responded.
As you stated:
“An Israeli couple in the audience at one of his Fringe shows reacted huffily to a very mild joke about Israel”
“People with no sense of humour – or at least, who have a sense of humour about everything but themselves – shouldn’t go to comedy shows.”
You are wrong to tar them with the same brush.
“ Daily Mail alone has run FIVE pieces about it, ”
===========
Was that the Daily “Hurrah for the Blackshirts” Mail?
Whose owner Lord Rothermere was MORE than an appeaser but an actual admirer of the Führer, at least until 1939?
Hatey,
It has a legal definition. There aren’t a certain number you need to kill to fall within the definition, that’s not how it’s defined.
The ICJ found that Israel’s actions arguably fall within the definition. That’s a fact. So using the description for what Israel is doing to Palestinians is fair.
The more likely way to end it right now, today, is for Israel to stop doing it. They could simply accept the ceasefire terms proposed and they get all their prisoners back.
Their PM has already said that even if there’s a “ceasefire” and all the prisoners are released Israel will continue killing people in Gaza.
Alex Salmond has a “YouTube” show called “Scotland Speaks”.
I just stumbled on today’s show running live right now. The guest is Craig Murray talking about Julian Assange, which is strange since I asked Craig last week if he had spoken to Julian since he was returned to Australia on 26th June and Craig said “I have not spoken directly to Julian”.
Assange has not been seen or uttered a single word publicly, he has simply been disappeared. Given the calibre of the people who have wanted Assange silenced for many years, people should be very worried by his silence and disappearance.
Craig just said Julian is “having an extended holiday with his family on a beach in Western Australia.” He can’t know this as a direct fact, only as a narrative being fed to the gullible to get them to look away and not ask the extremely obvious questions “Where is Julian? Why can’t he speak for himself?”
@ Andrew F: Why do you say that Craig Murray can’t know “for a fact” that Julian Assange is on holiday in W Australia? Craig has been in the inner circle of the Assange family and campaign for over 10 years.
Tbh, I’ve always been suspicious of the act of laughing. When people laugh, it’s usually at someone’s misfortune.
We really should be banning laughing rather than hatefulness or prejudicial jokes. Most jokes aren’t funny anyway and people only laugh at them out of politeness.
Lol. Whatever.
Aye, the “Daily Heil” known as the “Daily Liar” then and now which supported the N*zis. And we must’nr forget our own dear Duke of Buccleugh’s ancestor who had a whale of a time at Hitler’s birthday party in 1939….lovely bunch.
Wee “Johnny Main”‘s heroes; he/she/it has the correct new moniker ‘hatey’….
@Robert Louis
“Nobody likes them”?
A bit of an exaggeration on your part.
As ever, the world view of many of the more vocal cheer leaders for Scottish Indy remains an ongoing source of bemused wonder. Just as we observe with our friends in the east, there’s something about a small nation, desperately fighting to preserve and protect its people, culture and heritage against greatly overwhelming odds, that brings down the red mist in certain types of Scottish “patriot”.
My own considered opinion is that some sort of psychological transference phenomenon is in play, arising from the self-identifying virtue-signalling keyboard “warrior”, unfavourably comparing his pathetic efforts against those putting their real-world and fragile bodies in mortal danger.
But I’m not going to be dogmatic. As likely as not, it’s just one of the good old-fashioned “isms”.
I am not going to join in policing the rest of the world, when we cannot even Straighten out a small Country like Scotland,
Who knows one day we may be wary of talking or saying the word Scotland if one day the Hate Crime Bill decides to add it to its racist list under this new governance.
In my opinion and it is just my opinion Keeping an eye on what may be or is becoming a dictatorship in our own doorstep the first stage to freedom of expression and free speach in at least one Country,
When Scotland was the experiment for the Hate Crime bill in Britain I warned that it be coming to a Country near you soon,
Well now England and Wales have their version of it too
Except Scotland will have to comply with two, the “Scottish Hate crime bill” and “Englands Riot Bill” which includes Scotland because here in Scotland, we have to do Westminster laws as well, it has two governing bodies passing laws on freedom of expression and freedom of speech,
A double down of laws on the people of Scotland,
And sooner or later if we stick our necks out to far on the debate on the Isreal situation, we will be considered raciest either siide of the argument and get wings over Scotland closed down or Rev Stu jailed
We should Be more aware of set- up situations in a Country which has two sets of laws to stem freedom of expression and curtail free speech.
John Mason?
The list is getting longer.
This is an open door for anyone who’s serious about finishing off the SNP.
Full disclosure of these meetings and how senior SNP people have been briefed can’t be concealed indefinitely when the membership is openly calling for Mason and Robertson to resign.
Swinney is either awaiting orders or he’s following them. In any case, he’s exposed as nothing more than a biddable eejit for whoever’s really running the show.
@Alf Baird 8:04
“don’t necessarily represent the Scottish people”
An excellent point, Alf.
I’m of the view the 37 Labour MPs returned to WM a few weeks ago provide the best contemporary snapshot of Scottish opinion we have.
That being the case, it logically follows that the majority of the views presented on Wings BTL don’t necessarily represent the Scottish people either.
James Che @ 11:13 am
“one day we may be wary of talking or saying the word Scotland”
Indeed, and even the word ‘independence’ or ‘liberation’ might also become taboo, as is the Scots language.
The aim of colonialism and cultural imperialism is the obliteration of native cultures/languages and the eradication of these national identities. So long as colonialism is permitted to continue the (oppressed) nation and culture is in the process of perishing.
As for oppressive colonial laws, as Frantz Fanon wrote: “The native loses no time in lamentations, and he hardly ever seeks for justice in the colonial framework.”
A colonized people need to rapidly understand this everyday ‘reality’ and their fate if they fail to understand their ‘condition’:
https://salvo-cor.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/THEORETICAL+CASE+FOR+SCOTTISH+INDEPENDENCE.pdf
@ Andrew F
When we consider what J.A has just emerged from , ie years of brutal State-imposed psychological torture and physical attrition – perhaps it’s not surprising he’s taking time out to adjust to his present circumstances . Try to imagine what it must be like for him .
re the subject of this WOS post ; this is where “we’ve” arrived : ANY criticism – however innocuous/comedic – of the * most moral country/army in history * is immediately leapt-on to be censored , banned , cancelled , classified under the weaponised smear of ” Anti-Semitism ” , whilst the horrific inhumanity taking place THERE with the full complicity of Western Govs and their MSM servants/masters is presented to us as a moral battle between – get this – Civilisation v Barbarity . FFS .
No surprise that repellent , wholly-compromised moral leper Angus Robertson is happy to give tacit support to this ” Atrocity Exhibition ” by ” hosting ” one it’s representatives and by extension allowing the perception that Scotland’s too is amongst the despicable Governments either in agreement with and/or too fucking cowardly too condemn , unequivocally , the ACTUAL barbarity by this ” great ally ” in the M.E
What is just as unforgiveable is the pathetic attempt by that walking co-morbidity Swinney to spin this affront to decency by Robertson as a contribution to a resolution of hostilities – or some such bollocks . As if Yahu n his pack of ravenous psychos would be influenced to the slightest degree by anything the SNPGOV might say .
The incredible , intelligence-insulting arrogance of these creeps is off-the-scale ; to such a degree it appears even some of the ” SNP are infallible ” cultists are showing signs of ( long-abandoned ) critical thinking on this .
Could an embryonic spine be forming amongst the Sturgeon-opiated membership ?
@Alf Baird 11:42
If we all follow the example of the republican boy and say and write “scotland”, maybe the colonialists won’t twig what we’re on about!
I’ll keep my eyes open and ears cocked for any indications that the words “independence”, “liberation” and “Scotland” have been put on the proscribed list.
You might be onto something about Scots though. Most trips along my High Street these days, from overheard conversations, its use is defo declining. It’s being replaced by Punjabi, Cantonese, Farsi, Hausa, etc.
So, while I think there is some limited mileage in your colonialism idea, I also think you’re allowing your experience in academia to blind you to the true colonialism reality on our streets.
Alf Baird.
“The aim of Colonialism and Cultural Imperialism is the obliteration of Native….”
Without doubt Alf,
Canada is also bringing in a Hate Crime Bill that parallels other other Countries, America also has a Sweary word bill that they can be fined for,
This is systemic onslaught by the establishment and elites on on populations and native people to stymie free speech inch by inch.
But is Scotland in the same position as other Countries, we have to Question and debate that before we are forcefully stopped into suppression,
The last time The Old original 1707 Scottish parliament was in a political treaty of union with the Westminster parliament of England was in 1707,
But it was that Westminster parliament that actually places the Old Scottish parliament under dissolution
Leaving the Old Westminster parliament of England embedded in the rebranded new named Westminster parliament of Great Britain, through the upper house of Englands Westminster parliament , The House of Lords.being transferred with out elections
After the dissolution of the old Scottish parliament and removing it from the parliamentary union with Englands parliament in 1707,
Scotland never entered its now dissolved parliament into a treaty of union with the Great Britain parliament,
Nor could it any longer enter into a treaty with The Anglo- Irish treaty of union 1800.
And was no longer in a part of the arms and legs that the Westminster parliament made or agreed to after 1707 date,
The guise of Scotland entering in a parliamentary union with Englands Westminster parliament and then being dissolved from that very treaty of union by the old Westminster parliament of Englands House of Lords embedded in Great Britain parliament ended immediately.
but the hoax that Scotland has a parliament in the treaty of union today has been and still is a long standing one aganst the people of Scotland,
Without the old 1707 Scottish parliament remaining in the 1707 political parliamentary treaty of union, but Englands parliament continuing with their House of Lords dissolving the Scottish parliament from the treaty of union,
We are through records they recorded at the time in Westminster parliament witnessing a Colonial take over of Scotland and (Definatly Not a Union) because at the end of 1707 the Westminster parliament in England passed an Act to Extend the kingdom of England and the laws of England into the kingdom of Scotland,
Sarah,
I say that because Craig Murray has said, last week, that he hasn’t spoken to Julian. Therefore, he can’t know it for a fact, he can only say what someone else has said. And on Alex Salmond’s show he didn’t say how he knows that.
Back when Julian had his own voice, in August 2017, he said I don’t speak through intermediaries: “Only unmediated statements coming directly from me can be considered authoritative”.
Robert Hughes,
When Craig Murray was released from jail he immediately (outside the jail) held a press conference and addressed a crowd of 100 supporters to speak about his ordeal and his thoughts about the current dire state of the world.
When Nelson Mandela was released from jail after, more than 20 years, he immediately spoke at a massive rally to supporters to thank them and to promote the fight for freedom.
Julian Assange has not uttered a single word in public – even though he walked off the plane in Canberra with fists defiantly raised. Not a single word, and now he has disappeared.
This is actually tangentially on the topic of this thread (freedom of speech and draconian laws to suppress it), because under Australia’s “National Security” laws a person can be held indefinitely, in secret, or subject to a “control order” restricting what they can do – these things are almost limitless in their range and application.
A person subject to these restrictions is unable to tell ANYONE about it and to do so is automatically a crime under the “Crimes Act” punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment.
Given the power of the people who really don’t want Assange to ever speak again, it’s worth noticing the very obvious fact that he hasn’t spoken or been seen publicly in nearly 2 months. Especially so because he always had so much to say about the really big geopolitical issues, censorship, free speech, over-reaching state control and so on.
It’s naive to accept that he has simply disappeared without a direct word or trace because he needs a rest and an extended holiday.
@ Andrew F
I take yr point , but don’t you think someone , eg his wife , would have said if ” something ” had/has happened to J.A ?
It could be a condition of his release that he not say anything in public .
I agree , however , an appearance or statement of/by him would assuage fears that something has happened to him
Robert Hughes
I’m complicit with western governments in seeking to avoid an eventuality that throws 7+ million stateless refugees into movement.
If you’re happy to bring that on, maybe you’d like to burnish your virtue-signalling credentials by stating what you think Scotland’s share of the total should be. Civilisation versus barbarism, right?
Then again, if your secret thrill comes from hoping not one makes it out alive, your blustering, shouty posts about atrocities and decency should provide you with sufficient camouflage.
As Angus Robertson – and SNP leader John Swinney, had a secret meeting with the UK’s I-s-Ra-eli ambassador a few days back; Robertson is a buddy of Mossad agent Shia Masot – SNP MSPs John Mason lets his mask slip.
“JOHN Mason has had the whip withdrawn from him with “immediate effect”, the SNP has confirmed.
It comes after the MSP published a series of posts on Twitter/X which appeared to deny that a genocide was taking place in G-a-za.
On Friday evening, Mason wrote: “If I-s-ra-el wanted to commit genocide, they would have killed ten times as many.”
In a separate tweet, he wrote: “There is no genocide. If I-s-ra-el wanted to commit genocide, they would have killed many many more.”
A spokesperson for the SNP’s chief whip confirmed that the whip had been withdrawn from Mason with “immediate effect”.
https://archive.is/OyDW0#selection-1769.3-1797.121
The country is in chaos, riots in the streets, poverty not known since you heard the stories that your Grandad told you. corruption abound.
But Stop!!! some arse holes got upset at a comedy…comedy..fuckin comedy show.
Look at the ya ya’s shit their knickers. The wokes have reached the edge of the blind mountain.
The bar for ‘unacceptable’ speech is gobsmackingly low towards both sides of the middle east conflict at the moment. Just ask John Mason MSP who has just had the whip removed for very little.
“Assange has not been seen or uttered a single word publicly, he has simply been disappeared. Given the calibre of the people who have wanted Assange silenced for many years, people should be very worried by his silence and disappearance.”
Andrew F.
As far as I’m aware – Murray spoke of the readjustment to society after his kangaroo court conviction – which saw him end up in Saughton prison.
I think Murray – gave advice to Assange to take a long uninterrupted break with his family, to take time to adjust back into being outside prison – that’s probably what he and his family are doing.
“But they hadn’t – they had gone there to hear the comedy and were doing just that, until their enjoyment was disturbed by hecklers, who announced themselves as Israelis.
Then they responded.”
And still the correct response was “Shut up and sit down you Israeli cunts”, not “WAARGH YOU LOVE GENOCIDE FREE PALESTINE!”
“I have to concede, I’m a little confused on the correct etiquette here and would value some guidance which is consistent.”
It’s pretty clearly laid out in the article.
(1) Don’t like some jokes at a comedy show? Shut the fuck up. Nobody came to hear your opinion about anything.
(2) If (1) fails and some wanker starts heckling, leave it to the performer to deal with if possible.
(3) If (2) fails and they’re still heckling, the rest of the audience can shout at them to shut the fuck up.
(4) If (3) fails, it’s down to the venue to eject the troublemaker/s and/or abandon the show and give everyone a refund.
At no point do you have any legitimate entitlement to start screaming that these people support genocide, unless their heckle was “THIS IS NOT FUNNY BECAUSE I SUPPORT GENOCIDE”.
Any questions?
Hatuey Machateface,
The Scots are not in a treaty of union with England,
The Westminster parliament own site states this to the whole world, repeatedly year after year,
So how do you think Scots should have to share anything?
It is wise to repeat what The established Westminster parliament states even if someone thinks Westminster parliament statements and speeches should moderated, it would imply there was a governing body above Westminster parliament of Great Britain.
@ Main
Fuck off ya clown , anyone who has read yr imbecilic atrocity-condoning opinions knows yr a total cunt .
The kind of pathetic whimpering cunt who holds views any decent person would find repellent and then tries to declare some kind of superiority ( lol ) by whingeing about ” name-calling ” .
Here’s more to run to Stu about – Zelly’s Devoted Arse-Wiper + Yahu’s W.A.S.P Catamite .
Fck state of yon , burbling about * foreign * accents being more prevalent in Scotland & only referring to non-white accents when by orders of magnitude the highest % of * foreign * accents are of Caucasian origin .
The prick rails about ” Immigration ” but would happily see millions of ” E Europeans ” given the red carpet treatment in our country . Ahahahahaha . He puts the ” low ” in ” clown ” .
Apparently if you speak or discuss anything about the treaty of union in Scotland your comments are put in to moderation.
Sooner or later the Scots whom Westminster parliament states are not in the treaty of union will be stopped from “Quoting Westminster parliament statements”and discussing it openly with no hate speech involved nor no racist comments involved, and no Sweary words involved.and no incitement to encourage violence and no incitement to take to the Streets. And no incitement to suspend the treaty of parliamentary union that Westminster parliament dissolved itself and is on Westminster parliaments records. Since 1707.
So who is in charge of the history Britains parliament and who does not want the people of Scotland, England,Wales and maybe Ireland talking about there own treaties.
The police? The civil servants or some other establishment that Britains are not aware of,
I would have thought it was not a hate crime
Why is Angus Robertson not resigning over his recent meeting?
Maybe he knows too much about the missing £600,000 and other matters.
So this is how far the freedom of expression and the freedom to discuss your own Countries Status is in Scotland,
Posts regarding statues, records, legislation, of Great Britain and your own governments over Scotland are being deleted leaving Scots with (no access) to the right to self determination or to the freedom of Expression
That must be against International laws and ECHR laws.
Has anyone ever seen John Main and John Mason in a room at the same time.Asking for a friend.
@James Che
I would be might obliged if you would post a reference or link to where one might read this Act or Acts
oops some premature post issue there 🙁
@James Che
In the previous thread you mentioned:
“an Act to Extend the Kingdom and Laws of England into Scotland”
I would be might obliged if you would post a reference or link to where one might read this Act or Acts.
The obvious sources like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acts_of_the_Parliament_of_Great_Britain
and
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/apgb/1707
are of no help in this regard.
thanks.
The whole point is the blatant inconsistency, Stuart.
To simplify:
In a context in which legal and other attacks on the right to verbally express a view are allegedly being defended, it is inconsistent to whinge about the form those in the audience responding to the heckling chose in their response.
Particularly whilst at the same time having no problem with implicitly condoning the far more robust feeling that, to quote:
“everyone else – who paid to see the comedian, not listen to you whinging about them – will want to kick your head in for ruining their expensive evening out.”
Which is? Is it that it’s okay to want to physically attack someone for ruining an expensive evening, but not okay to react verbally in context because that particular reaction does not suit your sensibilities.
That’s a somewhat woke approach to the principle allegedly being defended here.
Alf Baird,
And others.
Some of my posts on records, statues legislation of GB / Scotland are not going through, being moderated in Scotland and being deleted, people in Scotland should take heed apparently are not allowed to discuss these issue’s even although they include us and are not mentioned specifically in “Scotlands hate crime bill,” or specifically in the bill passed by The Westminster parliament in England recently,
Just a mild warning of the Status in Scotsland. on freedom of expression and the right to self determination for Scots differs from all other Countries international laws.
aLurker.
I have already done this in the past, and many others on here are already aware of those Acts,
but perhaps I will do that in the future just for you sometime if you still find you are incapable of thinking independently or do not know how to ask questions on a computer ( you seem quite able to use a computer or any other device here on this blog)
But surely the point in many of my discussions over a good number of my posts is that the people must do their own research, not to just to trust solely other peoples research but to qualify something for your self,
But if you find yourself totally incapable or unequal or match the intelligence of Seventy year old women on a computer who has very little past education, then you may need my help or one of the other people here may give you a second pointer in the right direction,
But, as an old lady in full time occupation in looking after a terminally ill husband I do not feel that I am your servant to do your work for you if you suffer from lazyiatas.
Its up you and your decision as to what degree of intelligence you choose.
My posts that are delayed, moderated quickly go through go when I start mentioning ECHR and the right to sel- determination and freedom of expression,
I am happy.
Robertson is all over the place and Swinney comes to his rescue saying he approved the meetings.
The story continues and Mason ups the anti and becomes the story.
Funny how mason gets thrown under the bus but not Robertson
MaryB @ 14.30.
When was the last time an MSP resigned and gave up that lovely salary, expenses and pension contribution ?
Just think of Derek Mackay, collecting all his entitlements for around a year without even attending Holyrood; or Michael Matheson, supported publicly by the First Minister after his roaming charges scandal.
These folk are beyond shame or embarrassment, Charles Dickens described them perfectly in his comparison of them as “Tite (sic) barnacles” clinging to the Ship of State.
As long as they can sup at the gravy train their only concern is obtaining a larger spoon to use on public expenses.
@Republicofscooby 1:31
Wow, yon Mason boy speaks truth.
I wasn’t aware the official SNP had decided to throw in their lot with Humous. Maybe it’s in a desperate response to the reaming they took in the GE just a few weeks ago.
I look forwards with interest and some trepidation to see if they intend to visit the same kind of catastrophe upon the people of Scotland as their new pals in the ME have brought down on the heads of their people.
Meantime though, we’ll be seeing a surge in support for the SNP and Indy from the enthusiastically cheering people of Scotland.
Any.
Minute.
Now.
It’s complicated, this ‘G’ word stuff.
A little online research finds that as long ago as April, Pres P had already killed 50,000 of his own finest. Not to forget tens of thousands of our own side too. Troops, civvies, men, women, kids, toothless babushkas, babes in arms. Because he doesn’t like their culture, language, politics, heritage and freedom. And the numbers have been rocketing up ever since.
But that seemingly doesn’t warrant use of the ‘G’ word, no sirree.
Answers on a PC. Or more likely, inchoate, bile-filled, ignorance-based screechings on a PC.
O/T: For anyone who thinks Angus Robertson should resign – there’s a link to a petition to Holyrood on Sara Salyer’s facebook page.
Robert Hughes,
“I take yr point , but don’t you think someone , eg his wife , would have said if ” something ” had/has happened to J.A ?”
I’m not sure you get the drift of how his silencing might work. Say he’s taken into a room upon arrival in Canberra and slapped with something like a “control order”. He is then told that if he tells ANYONE (that explicitly includes family and even lawyers) about it he’s going to jail for 5 years – probably at a really nice place like Goulburn Super-Max Prison.
All of that is entirely possible under our national security laws (e.g the ASIO Act). And remember, he has just pleaded guilty to a serious US felony charge under the Espionage Act, and is therefore logically a “national security” risk especially considering his expertise in cyber related fields.
“It could be a condition of his release that he not say anything in public.”
No, I’ve read the entire “plea deal” in detail (I’m a lawyer) and there are no conditions on his release in the deal. That’s why I’m so concerned about what has happened to him after he arrived here in Australia, supposedly a free man, and has vanished without saying a word for himself. The US hasn’t put any conditions on him at all. The Judge in Saipan actually said he was “free”. So what happened when he arrived in US deep-state sock-puppet Australia?
Whatever it is, it simply does not make any sense at all that Assange hasn’t uttered a word in public in nearly 2 months.
@ Andrew F at 4.22: OK, you’ve got me worried about Julian Assange now.
Some light relief…
Which will be the first organisation to fold?
Sevco or the SNP?
https://x.com/offtopicscot/status/1824830066502603011
Penelope Keith once stopped a play to glare at my dad because he was laughing too loudly. You can’t win!
“I wasn’t aware the official SNP had decided to throw in their lot with Humous. Maybe it’s in a desperate response to the reaming they took in the GE just a few weeks ago.”
They haven’t – the SNP are pro-I-s-rael-i – Mason is the patsy, that’s being used to try and take some of the heat away from Angus Robertson and John Swinney – and their secret meeting with I-sr-ae-l-s ambassador to the UK a few days ago.
The SNP used to be pro-Pa-le-stin-ian – that has long gone – with several SNP politicians, even making a trip to the illegally occupied Gol-an H-eig-hts – in the not so distant past.
Mossad agent Shai Masot, who has mysteriously fallen from grace – after, it was discovered that he was in the UK to find favour for his occupying regime in the Levant, with UK politicians – anyway, Masot said of Angus Robertson, that he, (Robertson) was someone we could work with.
@Republicofscooby 7:14
Another “secret” meeting, somehow or other revealed to you, and now revealed by you to the world.
Mossad agents “outed” too. You defo have your finger on the pulse.
Bet you know where the hostages are too.
Come on, you can tell us.
o/t In a time of doom and gloom for the independence movement, I hope Stu can take some solace in the so far success of new Aberdeen manager, Jimmy Thelin. 7 wins out of 7 games is a brilliant start to his Pittodrie career.
SNP 2022/23 accounts due to be published.
It was 24th August last year with their £800k deficit.
Rev. Stuart Campbell
17 August, 2024 at 1:52 pm
““But they hadn’t – they had gone there to hear the comedy and were doing just that, until their enjoyment was disturbed by hecklers, who announced themselves as Israelis.
Then they responded.”
And still the correct response was “Shut up and sit down you Israeli cunts”, not “WAARGH YOU LOVE GENOCIDE FREE PALESTINE!””
Your suggested response certainly seems more appropriate.
But do you seriously think that while watching a comedy show, and on the spur of the moment, there would have been a genius who could have thought of your suggestion? And then the rest would have taken it up?
What they spontaneously and jointly came up with is the standardised anti-Israeli slogan loads of folks around the world have been chanting for many months.
You are wrong with your BBC type “objectivity” in having an unnecessary go at them.
Anybody else realised the offended British couple who moved to Isreal then came back for this one comedy show may have been paid for by the daily mail. Sister paper to the Jewish chronicle?
@Rev Stu 1.58 pm
At no point do you have any legitimate entitlement to start screaming that these people support genocide, unless their heckle was “THIS IS NOT FUNNY BECAUSE I SUPPORT GENOCIDE”.
Any questions?
You are of course correct. I suspect – but absent actual polling evidence obviously can’t prove it – that the overwhelming majority of ordinary Scots would heartily agree with your take on this.
However, this place in particular and the less savoury parts of the movement in general have been awash over the past several months with the kind of unthinking zealots who don’t know the simple meaning of words.
Oddly, it’s a particularly myopic affliction on the part of the usual suspects here bloviating about the uniquely evil nature of one side. On the one hand they are utterly convinced that on this topic right is on their side. Anyone who disagrees with their faulty understanding of a particular word in relation to the scale of deaths in the current conflict is totally “beyond the pale” (a term which I notice has also now been labelled a deeply problematic usage *sighs*).
On the other hand they are (mostly) on what I and most others would regard as the side of reason when it comes to the correct meaning of words like “woman”. It’s passing strange.
Of course, it is a truth universally acknowledged – except by the usual suspects in here of whom nothing better can be accepted – that outside this forum folks who rant about “Free form the River to the Sea” (usually without a clue of the names of either the river or sea concerned) and sport watermelon emojis on the Twitter/X bios are overwhelmingly likely to be on what most of us would regard as the wrong side of the TWAW debate.
Sadly since the event is last October this place has doubled down on its reputation as an echo chamber for a hardened core of tankies which would make 1984’s O’Brien proud. In their woo-woo worldview black is white, up is down and left is right.
It takes a special kind of person not to be able to see the contradictions inherent in simultaneously believing that what is happening in the Middle East now – however frightful – is comparible with the Shoah, what happened to the Armenians or in the Holodomor or in Rwanda, Cambodia or even Bosnia. Shame on all of them and on any of those fluffing for such zealots or kowtowing to their hysterical whataboutery.
” you are of course correct ” . of course
” I suspect……obviously can’t prove it ” obviously , but I’m going to assert xyz anyway – * stuff about something being ” overwhelming ” *
Here’s the ” usual suspects ” part …..
” However, this place in particular and the less savoury parts of the movement in general have been awash over the past several months with the kind of unthinking zealots who don’t know the simple meaning of words. ”
That’s right , the ” overwhelmingly ” most important point of * events * in the M.E is getting the nomenclature correct .
You see the view from Olympus is that this is really a Semantic War , and it’s REALLY important how we describe the bombing of schools , hospitals , ” places of refuge ” etc .
It simply won’t do to be using that horrid ” G ” word . I mean it’s bad enough being carpet-bombed by adjectives , but it really is adding insult to ( horrific ) injury to then subject the cowering survivors to a fire-storm of ” incorrectly ” used common nouns. Let’s hope – for the sake of humanity – they don’t send in the Elite Abstract Noun Forces and/or feral Mercenary Adverb divisions .
What linguistic gymnastics are adequate to convey the REALITY of this image from Craig Murray’s most recent post ? ……
” I have just been looking at 75kg bags of mixed human meat handed over to relatives in lieu of an identifiable corpse, and am in shock. ” .
Would labelling those ” 75 bags of mixed human meat ” – ” kosher ” or ” halal ” render them more palatable ?
Andy Ellis @ 8:16 am
When you refer to “the less savoury parts of the movement”, unlike you most folks here rightly think of the rapidly diminishing SNP colonial payroll which has been ‘co-opted’ and brought ‘under the wing’ of the colonial power.
As for “the simple meaning of words” why not try the word ‘colonialism’, which has a long-established theoretical basis and meaning not entirely unconnected to the most urgent matter facing Scots and Scotland – self-determination (i.e. decolonization) and liberation from oppression.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/18/determinants-of-independence-colonialism/
@Robert Hughes
Worth reminding alert readers that Craig Murray recently called for the abolition of the Jewish State. Those who agree with that call and the worldview it echoes represent only the lunatic fringe and will be rightly shunned by the overwhelming majority.
So enlighten us Robert: is EVERY conflict where innocents are killed, or schools, hospitals or places of refuge bombed deserving of the use of the “G” word?
Presumably that applies to Putler’s war in the east then, or to the ongoing outrages against the Hindu minority in Bangladesh, or the Muslims minority in Myanmar, or the historic oppression of the Saharawi in Western Sahara?
Alert readers might almost think those picking on one particular conflict and one side in that conflict had some ulterior and more sinister atavistic motive.
@Alf Baird 9.42 am
The usual suspects in here represent a fringe within a fringe. They don’t represent mainstream opinion in the independence movement, still less in the population as a whole. The fact you’re personally so invested in pedalling the “Scotland as colony” snake oil Alf doesn’t mean that it is either generally accepted, or that it it has any appreciable academic or intellectual hinterland.
If the UN doesn’t accept that Scotland qualifies as a non self governing territory, the chances of persuading others that what passes for your case is true seem somewhat remote.
You are correct that colonialism has a long established theoretical basis and meaning. You are simply asserting that that theoretical basis and meaning are applicable to Scotland’s case however. In reality vanishingly few people in general, and more importantly even fewer legal, academic and governmental authorities and organisations, accept that cases like Scotland or Catalonia or Quebec qualify as de-colonisation.
By all means however, feel free to produce any evidence you have of widespread, or indeed appreciable, support for your position. If it’s so self evidently true and obvious, all those supporters should find it relatively easy to crowd fund polling to back up their views surely?
Otherwise people might just think your constant self reverential spamming of the WoS blog (which has much more reach than your own efforts) with your own output is just a desperate attempt to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
About a million hears ago I saw Jerry Sadowitz live in Soho. He’s a very talented guy and I admire his wit, his nerve, and his close up magic skills. But I didn’t enjoy the night at all. ‘Jokes’ about rape, ‘jokes’ about a celebrity who happened to be dying of cancer…the whole thing left me depressed and wishing I was elsewhere. I’m more of a John Shuttleworth fan. It just wasn’t for me.
But not for a nano second did I think Sadowitz should have been cancelled, or made to edit his act, or apologise if he caused offence. The idea would never have occurred to me, or almost anyone else. But as I said, that was decades ago.
So let Mr Hunter tell his nasty, feeble little jokes.
But I wouldn’t be so hard on the Israeli couple (‘huffily’).
Heckling is free speech too, and from reports all they said was ‘not funny’’, which sounds like fair comment to me. A skilled comic should have been able to cope with that and maybe even bring them back on side, rather than making things worse. But then perhaps Hunter really is an anti-semite. There is a lot of it about these days.
For all any of us know, the couple in question may have a direct personal connection to October 7th. It’s not at all unlikely. I visited a synagogue recently on an assignment and everyone I met there did. The stories were harrowing. Perhaps the couple had come out for a night’s comedy to take their minds of it all…
That they were barracked, by some, as they walked out, is sickening.
It may help to spell out the legal definition involved:
“Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of
Genocide” – UN, 9 December 1948.
“Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as
such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”
On 26 January 2024 the International Court of Justice ruled that the mass killing being discussed here plausibly fall within the definition and as a consequence ordered that interim measures be taken until a final ruling.
@Andy Ellis 8:16
Good post.
It’s truly remarkable that you can read the shouty, sweary, inchoate, spittle-flecked comments on this thread from end to end and you will find plenty on the “Look at me, everybody, Ah’m virtue signalling on the right side of history here, so Ah am, now gie’s me ma Social Justice Warrior gold star to burnish” theme.
But you’ll be hard pressed to find any post advocating the one thing guaranteed to ease the desperate plight of the long suffering P@lestinian people, with immediate effect:
A lasting cease fire, negotiated in good faith by both sides, with an exchange of hostages and prisoners to seal the deal.
“Goannay no dae that” say the mouth breathers.
“How? With the fighting over, the food, water, medicines, and aid workers get into the war zone, the rebuilding and healing commences, the already allocated foreign aid, billions of dollars of it, floods in”.
“Just goannay no”.
@Robert Hughes 9:22
Outraged beyond reason at the very idea of unidentifiable body parts in the midst of an intensive war zone, as you so rightly are, it seems that in your frenzied horror, you must have hit “Submit Comment” before completing your post.
But dinna fash, I’ll complete it for you.
“We call for an immediate and lasting cease fire in G@za, the occupied territories, and the adjacent affected countries, an exchange of all hostages and prisoners, and unhindered passage for aid of all kinds to those in desperate need.”
Please feel free to cut-and-paste and re-use this text as often as possible.
Thank you.
Andrew F @ 10:42 am
“Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of
Genocide” – UN, 9 December 1948.”
Yes, Genocide, which is closely associated with colonial oppression, is clearly understood to take several different forms other than ‘killing’ to remove or replace ‘a group’, viz:
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
e.g. The ‘colonial mindset’, ‘appropriated racial oppression’ etc? Serious psychological ‘conditions’ brought about by colonialism.
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
e.g. creating a national housing crisis; cost of living / economic crisis; immigration / displacement policies? etc
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e.g. (c) above plus gender identity ideology and related state-promoted ‘educational’ and media initiatives?
The ‘group’ in this context implies an indigenous colonized people who remain subject to colonial procedures including ‘population management’ and who experience reduced birth rate.
@Alf Baird 11:30
It’s certainly interesting that so many of the “colonisers”, despite living under identical socio-economic-political conditions, with the indigenous, don’t suffer from a reduced birth rate. In fact, quite the opposite.
Actually, my first statement is inaccurate. They are never done telling us how disadvantaged they are, from poorer job prospects, poorer health and education outcomes, lower wages, systemic racism, etc, etc, yet still they’re getting it up more than we are.
Have you conducted any research into whether the physical process of colonisation gives us humans long-term, raging wood? That might explain a lot of history.
Feel free to explore this idea and if you think it has traction, enhance it within an academic context. Who knows, future historians may name it the Baird Effect in your honour.
Worth reminding alert readers Craig Murray recently called for the abolition of the Jewish State.” -Andy Ellis, 18 August, 2024 at 9:49 am
Alert readers? Few here will be flattered by inclusion in your all-too-obvious self-praise. To reel us in, you even repeat it at the end: “Alert readers might almost think…..” A genuinely alert reader will jalouse in your usage the phrase a synonym for the first person singular pronoun, subjective case.
Craig Murray, believe it or not, actually enjoys support for his views among Jews worldwide, including even some in the Jewish State. This should not be surprising , given the moral and humanitarian imperatives of Judaism. Those same imperatives align with Craig’s views on Apartheid South Africa. Here he is six years ago:
“I really had not expected to find myself still fighting apartheid in 2018, let alone in a situation where it is viewed by the Establishment as the acceptable solution.”
Why the “Two State Solution” is Apartheid – Craig Murray
Just catching up on some earlier posts
@Peter 16/8/24 1:37 pm
I’m not particularly baffled by the Eastwood Theatre’s cancellation of Mr Hunter. The Giffnock/Newton Mearns area is (or used to be) home to Scotland’s largest Jewish population many of whom are active in the arts scene. If that’s not be the reason for the cancellation it’s quite a coincidence.
Sorry, the -archival link in my post at 12:25 above does not work. Try this:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/10/39091/?amp=1
Host- I am baffled.
To comply with your request for one link per post, I split a lengthy defence of Craig Murray into two. Part 1 is polished at 12:25 above. The second part did initially appear with the message, that it was being moderated. Now, it has disappeared and entirely.
I would like to know what rule, if any, I have broken
Alf @ 9.42am.
Spot on Alf – your Determinants on Colonialism, sums up beautifully what has, and is, happening in Scotland sadly not enough Scots know about it – and the foreign MSM in Scotland that backs the status quo – would never dream of airing any of them.
Most folk in here, who aware of your Determinants on Colonialism – know that you come under attack from the usual suspects on Wings, because they know as well, that the Determinants are spot on – and they want to try and discredit you and your articles, but we know different, anyway Alf keep the good work up – there’s far more folk in here, for, than against you, and if we can get the info widely spread outside here, which takes time – our number will only grow.
@Cynicus 12.23pm
Mr Murray’s minority views are both obvious and noted. The fact that *some Jews* support his extremist views is really neither here nor there. I’d love to see the polling results if people were asked if they supported his original contention on X on 13th July that the Jewish state be abolished.
Opponents of the two state solution are going to have to come up with something more convincing than chanting for the freedom of “P*lestine from the river to the sea” and pretending that it isn’t inherently anti-semitic and jenocidal, huh?
It is simply a fact that Murray’s views and those of the usual suspects in here simply don’t enjoy majority support.
Cynicus
Those calling for the abolition of the Jewish State are to be commended for being up front about what they really want. I’ll say that for them at least.
To gain my respect though, they also need to provide a credible roadmap for what comes next. More than seven million stateless refugees to be rehomed is not something that can be dealt with by claiming we’ll sort it all out later.
There’s a second critically important reason for getting the debate exposed to the harsh light of day. It leaves those whose ulterior abolitionist motive is a final, final solution nowhere to hide.
Republicofscooby
You can grow your numbers by learning to write “Scotland” right.
Almost universally, I’d say it’s a no-brainer, but you’re the exception – it’s a brainer for you.
But I still have faith you can do it.
Unsurprisingly – Craig Murray has revealed that Angus Robertson, and John Swinney are long-term Z–ioni-sts, and that, its all but a prerequisite, to support Z-i-onism – if you wish to enter not just Scottish politics – but UK politics.
Read the article, you might be – or might not be, shocked by it.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/08/the-purpose-of-scottish-independence/
My thanks to those who have responded to what is effectively half post as explained above. I will tweak the remainder and try again
Reading through the comments here and in the media I remain perplexed as to the fascination with events in the Middle-East and am left still trying to work out what on Earth it has to do either with us or Scottish politics.
I remain profoundly sickened both by the barbaric events of October 7th and the equally barbaric response that is ongoing. I am however amazed at how politicians in both WM and HY have become wrapped up in it, seemingly to the detriment of more pressing matters at home.
To be blunt, it has nothing to do with us. However, the British state – of which HY is very much a part of – has historically been very willing to become embroiled in other people’s problems – a symptom of Glo-bal-ist, Internationalist, Interventionist, Reactionary, High-Tax, High-Spend, Ban-And-Tax-Everything, Undemocratic, Big-State Socialism that is espoused enthusiastically by the Tories, Labour and the SNP.
Increasingly, I feel a bystander in world events, watching on from a distance as mad people make mad decisions, all semblance of sense, wisdom, patience and consideration seemingly abandoned to knee-jerk policymaking as fools rush in.
More recently, CM has written : “the Jewish State” (an official as well as your own designation) ‘has the technical ability to carry out targeted attacks, and that the flattening of entire cities with 2,000lb bombs and the massacre of tens of thousands of innocents has been a policy choice.’
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/07/the-israeli-terrorist-state/?amp=1
I personally disagree with Craig and others who use the G-Word. The bar for its use should be set very high: extermination that is deliberately blueprinted -as at Wannsee in 1942. However there is no question that quite disgraceful acts of mass murder and other war crimes have been committed.
The grotesquely disproportionate response to the atrocities of October 7, may well have signed the death warrant of the Jewish State itself.
Cynicus
18 August, 2024 at 1:35 pm
“My thanks to those who have responded to what is effectively half post as explained above. I will tweak the remainder and try again”
=====
No joy. Amended removing terms.that others mangle spelling tesults in moderation.
Sorry
@Spartan 117 1.36pm
So you think all states and peoples should live in a state of splendid isolation? It’s a view I suppose. You can definitely propose that post indy our new (hopefully?) republic eschews all foreign entanglements, but I hae ma doots that we can somehow be insulated from the effects of the “great out there”.
Let’s say (just as a random example you understand – other scenarios are available) that Mr Murray & his supporters amongst the usual suspects in here get their wish and the Jewish State is abolished. Don’t you think several million homeless and stateless Jewish people will have an impact on our wee corner of the world?
Or should we just leave it to everyone else to deal with?
Doesn’t sound ver progressive or internationalist to me, but then I’ve long thought that some of the zoomers in here would be quite happy with a their tartan Brigadoon resembling Hoxha’s Albania rather than say our social democratic Nordic neighbours.
‘To gain my respect though, they also need to…’ (1.01pm)
… agree with my comments, aka …
‘inchoate, bile-filled, ignorance-based screechings on a PC’… (4.03pm yesterday)
… and be amused at my flippant critique of 3 bairns being brutally murdered and many others maimed and traumatised (3.50pm 30 Jul).
Sorted.
@RoS 12.44pm
It may indeed be true that Alf’s patent snake oil is lauded by the majority of the usual suspects in here….but so what?
How representative are the few dozen assorted nativists, vatniks, sophomoric Brigadoon marxists and (sadly) out and out racists and anti semites who pollute BTL comments in this place of the general readership?
Forgive us if normal folks think they’re not representative at all. Still less can they claim to represent the independence movement as a whole, or the general Scottish population.
Certainly if they did, we’d be able to see some evidence for it in the mass support for their “cunning plans for indy” (TM).
How’s that going by the way…..?
Perhaps your number will grow, but it all sounds a bit homeopathic to those of us living in the real world.
“How representative are the few dozen assorted nativists, vatniks, sophomoric Brigadoon marxists and (sadly) out and out racists and anti semites who pollute BTL comments in this place of the general readership?”
Oh dear, just what I expected though, you missed out your trade mark Moonhowlers – however you forget, that there are many, many lurkers who read the comments – but don’t comment themselves- what may think? I wonder.
———————
“Forgive us if normal folks think they’re not representative at all. Still less can they claim to represent the independence movement as a whole, or the general Scottish population.”
On the above – you do have a point, but not the point you are trying to make – the crux of the matter is that, there is no domestic media in Scotland – it is all controlled from other countries, such as England, and England desperately needs Scotland – it must continue to pillage its assets; but I digress – Alf’s excellent Determinants cannot reach as wide an audience as needs be – simply because Alf Determinants are not exposed enough to the Scottish public, ergo many, many Scots don’t realise that Scotland – is treated as a colony by the foreign country of England.
The same applies to the Claim of Right – not enough Scots know about it and what it entails – its not as if Scots aren’t open to the idea of ditching this illegal union – the figures supporting this, still hovers around the 50% mark, even after all that the treacherous SNP – and equally vile English governments have said and done – to thwart the dissolving of the illegal union.
On the illegal union – I suppose if you tell a lie long enough, most folk will come to believe it – that sums up the relationship most Scots have with it – they believe it exists, because countless generations have been lied to for so long – that the current Scots – well most of them believe it exists – when it doesn’t – its held together with lies – deceit and worst of all, treacherous House Jocks.
The SNP complaining -that the English government wants to turn Holyrood, into nothing more than a talking shop.
Of course, if the SNP didn’t sell us out on indy – we wouldn’t be in this position to start with.
https://archive.is/7yz0O
@RoS 4.33pm
…there are many, many lurkers who read the comments – but don’t comment themselves- what may think? I wonder.
I’m sure there are. The $64,000 questions though RoS are both how representative the views of the moonhowlers (see….sorted that for you since you craved it so!) in here are of those lurkers, and more broadly of those the movement is trying to get to “buy in” to the idea of advancing the cause of independence.
I don’t doubt that your snake oil has some adherents. any mass movement will have its leavening of zealots, weirdos and ideological extremists.
What you and your wee posse are failing to grasp, and certainly to demonstrate, is how popular your worldview actually is. It’s certainly not reflected in appreciable support, or a mass movement or huge donations flooding in to advance your platform is it? Why might that be I wonder?
Perhaps xenophobia, bigotry and fluffing for Uncle Vlad just aren’t that popular after all, huh?
As for the rest of your TL/DR apologia, it really amounts to a rehash of the old claim that Scots are too stupid to realise the truth of your faith based belief system that Scotland is a colony and they’re too idle to do an internet search about Scottish history and decide for themselves how relevant 300 year old treaties and history are, because only you and the ones who have “seen the light” know the truth of it.
Back in the real world, nobody really gives a shit about the Claim of Right, Salvo and Cunning Plans For Indy: they just need something convincing to vote for.
It doesn’t require bowing down to the false assertion that Scotland is a colony or that we’re being robbed/lied to/repressed: just the political balls and self respect to put an X on a bit of paper.
O/T: I can’t find the visitor numbers for Wings anymore – they used to be somewhere under a tab at the top of the page. From memory it was about 40,000 unique viewers.
I was looking because the Holyrood petition to make Angus Robertson resign because of his cosy relationship with the alleged genocidal country has only gathered 1268 signatures despite so many Scots being anti the genocide.
I would have thought a large number of Wings readers would want to sign the petition. The petition link is on Sara Salyer’s facebook – it is Sara’s petition.
My goodness for a minute there I was convinced I was on the Andy Ellis blog ably assisted and supported by his zi onist conspirator John Moan the zi on ist who despises paying taxes in case anyone else benefits from them
It was only when I realised Stuart Campbell produces PROOF to back up his assertions whereas Prof Ellis just uses rabid epithets and name calling in his bid to bully submission, that I considered those traits are usually used by the union jocks to undermine and fragment independence support
Andy Ellis @ 3:36pm
I’m afraid I’ve seen too many times during my lifetime the UK wading into conflicts with Size 12 Clodhoppers, idiot politicians throwing soundbites around without understanding the facts that should be ascertained. Meanwhile, precious lives and resources are wasted in foreign lands for nefarious purposes.
GW1&2. The ‘Stan. Libya. Syria. The various nasty goings on in the Balkans. YooCrane. IzRail.
Sorry not sorry, I remain a pacifist, and firmly believe that if events happen in other nation states, we should remain well out of it. Armed conflict should purely be on a defensive basis, I.e. if we are attacked. Others are free to disagree.
@Spartan 117 6.23pm
Pacifism is admirable of course. turn the other cheek and all that. I get it, I really do.
As an independent state we could of course just keep our heads down and hope nobody notices us.
I mean it’s not as if history shows us any examples of smaller states being ravaged by others is it? I’m sure sitting around singing a few choruses of kumbaya will do the trick… [insert facepalm emoji here].
@twatbyname 5.57pm
Trouble is bud, what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If it’s OK for you to demand proof of my assertions, the same applies to you and your mucker too, right..?
So on you go…fill yer boots.
We’ll wait….
@Ebok 3:50
OK, you got me. I’ve just spent 30 minutes of my life I won’t get back searching posts on the 30th July to work out what has been eating away at you ever since.
I think I found it too. Eventually. Sorry my “flippancy” isn’t to your taste. Maybe I should have torched an asylum seeker hostel instead. Seems lots of others did.
I could go on, but you’re not worth the effort.
I hope you’ll take my advice though. Don’t try to play atrocity top trumps. Somebody may take you up on your offer and give you a game.
@sarah 5:45
Maybe most people you communicate with are lying to you.
I would learn to trust the verdict people deliver when in the secret, anonymous privacy of the democratic polling booth.
Luckily there was such a poll just a few weeks ago and its verdict is clear.
The people of Scotland want the policies, personalities and promises of the UK Labour Party. At this time, there is every likelihood that result will be repeated in May 2026 when the people of Scotland will deliver a similarly secret, anonymous and private verdict on the SNP/Green train wreck that still has approx 18 months left at HR to grind Scotland deeper into the mire.
@Andy Ellis
I dont think it’s a case of “keeping our heads down and hoping nobody notices us” nor is it “sitting singing Kumbyah”. Other Western nations (Ireland, Switzerland for starters) have successfully maintained political neutrality, I.e. keeping their noses out of everyone’s business and focusing on looking after their own.
Personally, whilst I sympathise entirely with the horrors going on in various parts of the world, it is not “our” responsibility to sort everyone’s crap out. Our Government’s primary – and only – responsibility is to it’s citizens. Not those in YooCrane, the Sandpit, nor the EU, the USA, the WH, the World Economic Forum or any other place or party.
” It’s certainly not reflected in appreciable support, or a mass movement or huge donations flooding in to advance your platform is it? Why might that be I wonder?”
There’s no need to wonder – I already explained why in my previous comment.
——————-
“Perhaps xenophobia, bigotry and fluffing for Uncle Vlad just aren’t that popular after all, huh? ”
None of the above have the slightest impact – when it comes to understanding why Scots are unaware, that the union is illegal – or that Alf’s Determinants haven’t reached a larger audience – just as you – admitting that you are a die-hard Atlanticists, that as well, has no bearing on why the information isn’t as widespread, as it should be.
———-
“Back in the real world, nobody really gives a shit about the Claim of Right”
Again this due to the information not getting out there – it has nothing to do with Scots no giving a shit – how can you give a shit, one way or another, if you don’t know the information in the first place – to make that choice.
—————–
“It doesn’t require bowing down to the false assertion that Scotland is a colony or that we’re being robbed/lied to/repressed”
Again if Scots become well informed – and Alf is trying to do that – on what’s going on, as is the Rev in his own way – and what has gone on – with regards to the illegal union, the Claim of Right – Alf Determinants – which clearly show that Scotland is treated as a colony, even though its a country – the elder of the two-countries in this illegal union I might add – then Scots will be able to make their own minds up, however right now the foreign media – consecutive English governments – their security services, and the vile House Jocks – are doing their worst to keep Scots in the dark on these matters.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/06/02/fictional-kingdom-fraudulent-state-2/
Calls for the SNP – MSP, and Zionist – Angus Robertson to be sacked – the same should apply to the FM, and Zionist John Swinney.
Kirsten Oswald – a very close ally of Sturgeon the Judas, has also been snapped – gleefully smiling away, in a photo with – Isaac Herzog the president of the Jen0ci-de committing occupying force in Pa–lest-ine.
https://x.com/Documark/status/1823981390494364076?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1824131327454597223%7Ctwgr%5E720440fd08b3068b04cce3a3817b4282950ba208%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.craigmurray.org.uk%2Farchives%2F2024%2F08%2Fthe-purpose-of-scottish-independence%2F
https://archive.is/gf9QJ
Looking ahead to a possible President Harris. Could there be a change in US foreign policy toward Palestine? Doubtful considering her husband is Jewish and an activist for the Jewish lobby. 145 UN members out of 193 recognise the State of Palestine already. Spain recently doing so. What about Starmer? He could shift the paradigm by the UK recognising the State of Palestine. Unlikely without US approval although the Labour grass roots would say otherwise. I wanted Scotland to take an even hand. Given firstly Humzas intervention and then secondly Robertsons intervention. I would say balanced to date rather than even. Because these diplomatic meetings were partisan. So where to do we start on redrawing the borders of Israel? Pre 1967, pre 1948 or the Balfour declaration. Throw in Ezekiel and Numbers for a biblical interpretation and it starts to look like a board game. The Oslo Accord was successful because extremist views were not in the room. It’s solvable but it feels like we are back to square one. Tricky game snakes and ladders. Too many deaths already. Condolences to both sides.
Calls for the SNP – MSP, and Z–ion–ist – Angus Robertson to be sacked – the same should apply to the FM, and Z–ioni–st John Swinney.
Kirsten Oswald – a very close ally of Sturgeon the Judas, has also been snapped – gleefully smiling away, in a photo with – Isaac Herzog the president of the Jen0ci-de committing occupying force in Pa–lest-ine.
https://x.com/Documark/status/1823981390494364076?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1824131327454597223%7Ctwgr%5E720440fd08b3068b04cce3a3817b4282950ba208%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.craigmurray.org.uk%2Farchives%2F2024%2F08%2Fthe-purpose-of-scottish-independence%2F
https://archive.is/gf9QJ
@Spartan 117 8.26 pm
Neutrality is certainly an option, but then as our Finnish and Swedish friends recently demonstrated it has its limits in the face of what they considered a fairly significant change in circumstances. I don’t think many folk here realise what a huge step change it was for those in both countries.
Others who loudly proclaimed their neutrality in the past like Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and Norway found it did them little good in the face of a hostile and determined adversary bent on domination.
It isn’t necessarily just about it not being “our” responsibility to sort everyones crap out either, unless you feel there are never any circumstances which justify force which is probably going to be a hard sell given the realpolitik of the current international system.
Spartan 117 @ 8:26 pm
“keeping their noses out of everyone’s business and focusing on looking after their own.”
Yes, that should be Scotland’s position. Independent and neutral Ireland has avoided some 80+ UK conflicts since WWII that Scotland has been dragged into by dominant English governments.
A colony may have ‘democracy’ but has no power over matters of war and peace, foreign affairs, economy, culture, media, immigration etc etc.
Hatey Mchateface @ 20.20.
No authority on voting trends myself, I’d still tend to the view that not that many folk voted for the Labour Party in Scotland because of any great enthusiasm for its’ policies, personalities or promises.
Rather, it seemed to many the least worst option to cast their vote against the discredited SNP. Even the Reform Party (surely an English unionist party if ever there was one) achieved a respectable result.
And, I’d suggest, the reason the smaller and newer Scottish independent parties such as Alba or ISP failed to attract many votes was that only the greatest optimist would have felt that any of them would attract more votes in a GE than even the failing SNP. Therefore it made more sense to vote for Labour to get rid of SNP MPs, even if it was without much enthusiasm.
My heavily-pregnant girlfriend refused to go to the show because she was due-ish.
Doug, bravo – that was probably the best joke you were likely to get at the festival.
Date for your diary! 25 January Swiney and Robertson are arranging an SNP
Rabbi Burns Night. All proceeds to a ring fenced next referendum fund.
Is the Fringe-o-Caust still running? Maybe the RAF should bomb the railway lines to Edinburgh-witz to stop this war crime (- hey palestinos, HIYA!!! – how ye doin? – did ye keep up the house insurance, your fault if ye didnay, ken … all ahm saying … ) – back to “shit that matters”
this is a talk from one of google’s high heid yins – an insider, a guy who knows tech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOLrv-ypfXc
– this is what is coming down the line, techwise; if you want to survive, you need to be on the right side of it; it’s a bit long, but worth sitting through it. There is also the intriguing status of this talk being “banned” (for reasons unknown) – it is quite candid, and here is a major tech investor describing plainly how tech interfaces with high politics, and geo politics. The sums involved are colossal – 300B USD for data “centers”(!) and hooking up Canada’s hydropower to run it. NB the manhattan project plugged directly into the hoover dam.
Scotland – with its huge, cheap, energy resources, cool climate and excess of water, could be an ideal place to get in on this; plus smart people and advanced chip design functions.
– but you need to have imagination and be in control of the country. We need to cut the rope to England, let it sink into the North Sea, to pay for its bad decisions and its historical crimes.
Scotland, looks bad by comparison to Ireland, Norway, Switzerland – but with the right kind of strategic imagination we could be far, far richer than any of them.
Or you can stick, siamese-twinned to a bunch of cunts, forever, these kleptomaniac narcissists and see the whole fucking lot – oil, gas, leccy, water – carted off down south, and the country used as Leibensraum for all the anglo. bastards. Nice. The sea bed will also be mined for exotic minerals, another bonanza we will not see, they are developing the drone tech for this right now.
– the worst thing about the tr4itors who lead us is how little they sell the country out for.
Another observation – note the vast gulf in intellect between guys like schmidt and e.g. politicians in general, our deadwood in particular.
Make no mistake – there is a massive new wave incoming and you either get in front of it, or are left behind; change is constant, and those left behind will struggle – as schmidt puts it “the rich will get richer and the poor will just have to do … the best they can”
Numbers for people who don’t get numbers – what are we talking about? What is 300B USD?
Scotland GDP = 200B
Norway/Ireland/Switz GDP = 600-800B each
200B is also the profit for one year (2023) for Norway’s Wealth Fund (not the value of it, the yearly profit)
UK GDP inc. Scotland = 3300B = 3.3T
US, China GDP – 20000B approx = over 20T
– a basic hospital costs 100M, an aircraft carrier and planes about 4B; nuke power station 10B (if you used the chinese), 30B if the english try to do it
there is serious talk of using nuclear power plants – “small modular reactors” – to power the data centres.
NB any UK civil servant who is in charge of this tech policy will -automatically- be concerned with getting this new “stuff” for London-Oxford-Cambridge and nowhere else. You can never rid yourself of this south east bias if you are in the UK.
“but why can’t we have nice things?”
– get back in your box, Scotland.
Just remembered something – there was some tit posting a while ago who claimed the windpower wasn’t worth anything because of … OHMS LAW … a fucking certified genius. Military man, I think, which makes sense; “dumb stupid animals, to be led by the nose”. I wonder if he got seconded for one of those foreign wars that UK troops are not involved in, as foreigners can be taught how to work all the highly specialised “kit”, in 5 minutes, which takes 3 years for our lads to train on.
Alastair ,haud me back!
Alastair @ 11.26.
Could well be the first Burns Night in history with loads more puddings than haggis.
“You are wrong with your BBC type “objectivity” in having an unnecessary go at them.”
Still think it was “unnecessary” given what’s emerged about them over the weekend?
“NICOLA Sturgeon has said she wises more political leaders would read fiction “as a general principle”.”
Surely – Sturgeon the Judas knows, like other Scottish politicians, know fine well, that this union is utterly fictitious.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/06/02/fictional-kingdom-fraudulent-state-2/
We also now know – that, Sturgeon the Betrayer and her party, are not in the slightest bit interested in Scottish independence – that it was all just fiction on their behalf.
“Sturgeon said: “She lives a life that all of us in this country can recognise, and therefore what happens to her suddenly doesn’t seem far away. It’s something we can conceive of and imagine.””
Oh – we recognise a backstabbing b*stard when we see one, that’s for sure, and to be quite honest – I could imagine Sturgeon the Judas far, far away, or more precisely locked up far, far away.
https://archive.is/3vWAx
Meanwhile.
“THE Scottish Government has said it will not meet with I–sr-ae-l again until “real progress has been made towards peace”.”
Oh right, so that makes their secret meetings with the I-sra–eli Ambassador to the UK okay then, whilst they are committing G-en0c-ide.
https://archive.is/lfbMk#selection-1771.3-1771.121
Of course – the die-hard Z -ion–ists, Swinney and Robertson – will say just about anything – to limit the damage to their reputations.
SNP MSP – John Mason, really is a nasty piece of work – his intransigence, to the utter suffering of women and children in G-az–a, by highlighting that the vile occupying force are not committing J-en-0c-ide – is typical of the failings of this SNP government – and the party overall.
“An SNP MSP who had the whip removed over comments he made about G-a–z-a says he ‘completely stands by’ the remarks.
John Mason said he did not expect his party to suspend the whip due to his tweet and believed he had done the “right thing”.”
@ Confused
Aye, there really needs to be a serious, open, and frank discussion on what is going on with our energy resources.
It seems all these new wind farms are coming online and capable of generating huge amounts of leccy well over our current demand requirements, but are also unable to supply that power into the grid because the development of grid infrastructure is lagging way behind the rate at which the new farms are being created.
This means very large amounts of subsidies are getting paid to the companies operating these windfarms in curtailment charges to cover them not generating leccy.
How will this play out when ten times the generation capacity comes online in Scotland’s geographic area when we aren’t even capable of utilising what we currently generate.
Even if the grid infrastructure was brought up to cope with our needs, are we still going to be paying subsidies to companies not to produce amounts of electricity it would be theoretically impossible for us to ever use.
Yesterday according to this linked to site, the Seagreen wind farm off the Angus cost was in curtailment mode from midday to 6pm. It could have been generating approximately 75% of the 1.1GW output potential from the 6 zones in the farm, but instead was effectively switched off. Dump this excess power to Ninewells or Aberdeen hospitals and save these health authorities paying massive leccy bills from their budgets.
The linked to site is a bit finicky to view but if you click Seagreen and look under “Back to List” on bottom lefthand corner, then there’s a stupidly wee window where you can just about view outputs showing curtailment and generation modes. Best just keep to the first main overview of the entire farm for simplicity. Custard colour is curtailment and generation is grey, and as you can see there’s way more curtailment than generation going on.
* NB From a bit of searching Seagreen may not be receiving full curtailment payments as appears to have a percentage of its generation under “merchant” status which just sells what it can as and when required and might not get paid not to produce, which presumably will be details incorporated into the overall contractual agreement.
https://renewables-map.robinhawkes.com
And 20% of GB grid power is currently being imported from mainland Europe, presumably by the some of the same companies that are getting paid not to produce leccy here.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Unfortunately and disappointingly Wings btl seems all but done as a platform for discussing this sort of stuff. Could it be revived or does anybody know of another site which could be utilised to host discussion.
——-
Wonder if Reginald D Hunter was contacted by the same Times journalist that called Doug Stanhope 12 years ago after his Fringe performance.
8 mins comedy with swearing NSF
WScotlandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ayctCub8FE
Chin up, Dan. Nice to see you posting interesting stuff again re. the biggest theft in history (surely?).
Dan, I get what you’re saying but investment in wind turbines is primarily down to private investors and you simply can’t separate the market for electricity itself from the profitability and long-term viability of the investment in turbines.
I wish it were otherwise.
Three things must be at the forefront of the sort of discussion you want;
1) the excess capacity you talk about only exists because private investors put money into building wind farms.
2) those investments in turbines and wind farms are based on a 25 year lifespan and the returns that shareholders anticipate are based on 25 years of electricity production at prices determined by the market.
3) on a more positive note, however you may choose to look at it, we are moving to an essentially clean form of energy without any real costs to taxpayers. In a sense, it doesn’t really matter who builds the turbines and how much profits they make, as long as we move to a clean energy source that — depending on your views on climate change — could be all important.
The future is electric and if we can crack the problem of electricity storage, we should see costs to consumers come down as well as a better, cleaner, world.
Incidentally, China is now fully on board with the need to transition and has recently finalised a solar farm in the Gobi desert that will produce electricity for literally millions of homes. More are in the pipeline.
My personal view is that energy across the board should be nationalised on the basis that it’s too important to be left to the so-called free market (which is totally non-free and corrupt) but I guess we need to deal with the world as it is rather than the world we wish it could be…
Dan 4.20pm
Good to read your post, Dan. Clear, accurate, relevant and certainly refreshing especially with btl being a wee bit in the doldrums at the mo.
HURRAY ! Dan’s back 🙂
Reading that info re cuntin’ Energy Corps getting paid NOT to use the energy being generated in our country ( at times ) , when we’ve just been told ( note , TOLD ) domestic use is going to increase by 9% ,the Fuel Allowance for pensioners has been stopped ( UK GOV cannae afford it but can still afford to send £Bs to ensure the bloodshed continues * elsewhere * ) and – to make sure our faces are ground even further into the shit – every fucking year we learn of ” record profits ” for these same Energy Corps , makes you wonder what it will take for people to finally say ” ENOUGH , get tae fuck , we’re no paying any more ”
It’s obvious there’s not a chance in hell of ANY of the fckn useless , pampered Political Class wae their generous salaries , * expenses * n generally comfortable * lifestyles * doing anything of substance to prevent this outrageous , disgusting robbery – fuck , they can’t even bring themselves to criticise the * system * that allows the rapacious exploitation of something as basic as the human need/desire to have protection from cold and access to hot food in Winter .
It’s not ” more Devolution ” we need , but Revolution .
Sadly , the chances of that are slim to the point of anorexic .
Try to imagine ANY of the current crop of SNLALIDECON identikit political plankton even raising their voices in HolyMinster never mind leading street protests over this obscenity .
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO . That’s what you get .
Get them aw tae fuck – EVERY . SINGLE . ONE . OF . THEM .
Yay , dans back , always enjoy your posts 🙂
@ Robert Hughes:
I’ve just remembered that there is one MSP with some guts plus ability who could be the toehold needed in Holyrood for the non-political party independence brains to get some progress made. Ash Regan.
I’m sure Lloyd Quinan could liaise and get her on board with the other groupings that I suggested on here the other day.
Rev, wouldn’t it be nice to make some action happen?
Nice to see you back again, Dan.
While musing on Dan Da Man’s welcome return btl, I keep thinking about BBC “Scotland” and its treatment of the announcement of The Great Energy Super-Highway Robbery *chews carpet and simultaneously extracts claymore (metaphorically, Police Scotland) from the thatch*
Was there even a single word from the SNP about this gross theft of our resources while we still suffer enormous energy prices in Scotland?
Must have been too busy cosying up to politicians from a country plausibly accused of genocide to care.
This energy super hiway will have to be paid for and no doubt we will all have to pay to send the juice south and that’s on top of the usual winter price increase.
Rev. Stuart Campbell
“Still think it was “unnecessary” given what’s emerged about them over the weekend?”
I have no idea of what’s emerged about them over the weekend, and if I find out, I will be happy to change my view if necessary.
But in the context of your article, I still think it was unnecessary because they didn’t start the problem and they didn’t physically attack the Israeli couple.
“Nobody got hurt, the couple left after a brief shouting match and in a normal sane world that would have been that.”
Very interesting documentary on last night about MBS of Saudi Arabia. I watched episode 2 in advance on I player. The claim was the timing of the Hamas October incursion into Israel was to prevent normalisation of the relationship between Saudi Arabia and Israel. They were getting close before the Hamas action.
Hi Dan
All will be resolved by Great British Energy. Hundreds off our leccy bills. Based in Scotland. Grid Connections, market anomalies sorted. A magic wand is in the offing and if you say otherwise you will be designated Far Right and off you go to the local nick. I am doing the outdoor jobs before Winter. Good to see you back.
I wonder what they would make of Frankie Boyle?
I am sure his response would have ripped them to shreds. Why go to comedy , if you are easily offended? It’s like wearing green jumper walking through Ibrox. You know the outcome already.
Dan
Welcome back. You’re safe at least until Ruby re-appears.
You seem to know a lot about this offshore leccy business.
Why don’t you ballpark price an entirely Scottish-owned offshore windfarm, together with the offshore and onshore distribution infrastructure, sufficient for Scotland’s projected needs over say, 20 years?
Factor in ScotGov’s frankly loony accelerated Nett Zero commitments, as well as their arguably gen-o-cid-al stated need for a million New Scots (one million over 20 years seems low to me, but heck, let’s not argue over details).
Cost this up at the best available finance rates (assume we’re under the cosh of EU borrowing rules), then divide down by population and month to give us the figure for each Scottish household for each month over the 20 years.
I’m genuinely interested to see the numbers. It could well be that it would be cheaper for us to do it alone, and not leverage the finances of the world’s sixth largest economy, plus a consumer base ten times the size of our own.
Then again, I rather suspect it won’t be cheaper at all.
Just incase you haven’t been paying attention, I don’t subscribe to the fiction that the wind blowing hundreds of miles offshore magically belongs to us Sovereign Scots. I’m happy with the idea that it belongs to those prepared to make the gigantic investments that are needed to extract its energy.
Absolutely no reason, of course, why we Sovereign Scots shouldn’t be the ones to make such a gigantic investment. There’s plenty of wind to go round.
So let’s put numbers on the investments needed for us Sovereign Scots to grab a piece of the big money action.
Thanks in advance.
@Republicofscooby says:19 August, 2024 at 4:09 pm
his intransigence, to the utter suffering of women and children
Good point, Ros, but tell us, have you posted any calls for an immediate lasting ceasefire and the hostage-prisoner exchange needed to end the war?
Recently?
Ever?
Only, if you have, I must have missed them.
Dan
Welcome back. You’re safe at least until she who can’t be named re-appears.
You seem to know a lot about this offshore leccy business.
Why don’t you ballpark price an entirely Scottish-owned offshore windfarm, together with the offshore and onshore distribution infrastructure, sufficient for Scotland’s projected needs over say, 20 years?
Factor in ScotGov’s frankly crazy accelerated Nett Zero commitments, as well as their arguably Jenny Sidal stated need for a million New Scots (one million over 20 years seems low to me, but heck, let’s not argue over details).
Cost this up at the best available finance rates (assume we’re under the cosh of EU borrowing rules), then divide down by population and month to give us the figure for each Scottish household for each month over the 20 years.
I’m genuinely interested to see the numbers. It could well be that it would be cheaper for us to do it alone, and not leverage the finances of the world’s sixth largest economy, plus a consumer base ten times the size of our own.
Then again, I rather suspect it won’t be cheaper at all.
Just incase you haven’t been paying attention, I don’t subscribe to the fiction that the wind blowing hundreds of miles offshore magically belongs to us Sovereign Scots. I’m happy with the idea that it belongs to those prepared to make the gigantic investments that are needed to extract its energy.
Absolutely no reason, of course, why we Sovereign Scots shouldn’t be the ones to make such a gigantic investment. There’s plenty of wind to go round.
So let’s put numbers on the investments needed for us Sovereign Scots to grab a piece of the big money action.
Thanks in advance.
Ain’t Scottish politics lively and busily holding those in positions of power and influence to account…
Last week Republicofscotland commented on Scottish Water bosses getting big bonuses.
Were those tens of thousands of pounds of bonuses for continuing to pump thousands of gallons a day of untreated effluent into our biggest river where the largest rod caught 64lb salmon was caught by Miss Georgina Ballantine?
That ongoing pollution is not due to a fault, that is the archaic sewer system working as it should. Those big bonuses could have gone towards upgrading the poor existing infrastructure and work towards reducing pollution in our rivers.
It would be a relatively easy project to upgrade sewer systems on the river and see if stopping pumping thousands of gallons a day of untreated effluent into the Tay improved the eco system and more Salmon returned to the water.
They only get away with pumping that large volume of untreated effluent into the river due to the large flow rate which dilutes and disperses it more than if the same volume was pumped into a smaller river.
Of course folk may recall my mentioning of the farcical way a local sewer and pollution fault was “dealt”. Which totally lacked any dynamic thought and nous on taking that opportunity to implement an upgrade rather than pissing away hundreds of thousands to repair the old compromised system which continues to pollute day in day out.
Is every one in control of these sort of things an utter moron?
Unsurprisingly – deaths from drugs abuse in Scotland for last year have been released – and they’re up – the figure now stands at 1,172, up 10% – Scotland, for it small population, has the highest death drug deaths in Western Europe.
More Scots per-head the population die in Scotland than anywhere else in the UK, the question must be why – and why doesn’t the SNP government care about Scots – that is patently obvious.
2020 remains the worst year on record – when 1,339 people in Scotland died from drugs.
Of course we had the usual BS from the SNP governments Health Minister Ian Gray- on how they are doing everything to slow down the number of Scots dying from drugs abuse – frankly its not good enough.
Tinto Chiel
Iain Macwhirter has a good online analysis of why the SNP has little more it can do in the time left before the 2026 HR wipeout, other than destroy itself in an ideological purity spiral.
I can’t be arsed to post a link. If you want to find it you will, if you’d rather bury your head in the sand that works fine for me too.
It’s fascinating though, for us rationalists residing in Sanity Island, to see how anybody negotiating or even discussing an end to the war must immediately be cast into the outer darkness as “unclean”.
Student Grant in Viz sums it up perfectly.
The SNP, if it had any thought process at all, would demand the police crack down on english county line gangs and every time they are asked about drug deaths talk about english gangs and what they are doing. They might also ask why the BBC has been covering up the activities of these gangs.
I am not holding my breath for a reasonable response from the SNP or the Vietnam group.
nice to see you, Dan
I think Scotland’s story is like one of those victorian novels with odd names – e.g. “the quincunx of nicolas chuzzlewit” – about the purloined inheritance of an orphan, a wicked step guardian, byzantine legal chicanery – all serialised in 148 episodes in the pall mall gazette, for threepence an issue.
– we await A Chance Meeting with an Mysterious Benefactor who provides us with the True Will and Proof of the Forgery
John ‘Dumbass’ Main;
It’s the REVENUES stoopid! But you know that already.
Arsehole.