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Wings Over Scotland

Britain goes to war

Posted on December 02, 2015 by

Tonight we watched as the conclusion of a “debate” in the UK Parliament saw the “opposition”, almost unprecedentedly, sum up the same case as the government, to roof-raising cheers and applause (which is now apparently permitted again) from the Conservative benches for a Labour shadow minister.

We were rather put in mind of a famous Neil Kinnock speech from 1985.

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  1. 02 12 15 22:39

    Britain goes to war | Politics Scotland | Scoo...

338 to “Britain goes to war”

  1. Jacqueline mcdo

    So sad, just feel so sad

  2. John Fern

    Absolutely Gutted.

  3. Anagach

    His father would be ashamed of him.

  4. Steven Roy

    You have to ask why Labour’s final speaker was speaking against Labour policy

  5. heedtracker

    Kill everyone and bring our boys home. UKOK

  6. June Maxwell

    Watching and listening to that, the only word that comes to my mind is a Greek one – Ephialtes (of Thermopylae). I actually feel sick.

  7. Zen Broon


  8. galamcennalath

    Thanks, No voters. This is what you voted for. Still believe we are Better Together?

  9. blackhack

    And so the war drums start beating….Wont be long now till it’s boots on the ground time….Just a shame that the hawks will be safe at home while our children become cannon fodder….Can we learn nothing from history ??

  10. Grouse Beater

    No voters, let by dry Darling and odious Fats McDougall, forgot to mention that placing absolute faith in English detestation of foreigners, and corrupt Westminster, is certain to take us in to another war.

    The USA has already proved its policy of bombing is NOT working, so guess what? Cameron rushes off to join them, followed ecstatically by the Labour party.

    And the SNP prove that even when it force in the Gothic House of Horrors Scotland still gets the wars it never asked for, or ever began.

    We are still a supernumerary to England’s ambitions. And how those politicians cheered and applauded when asked to kill people in far off lands.

  11. mogabee

    Not sure why I feel so upset. I knew this bombing would go ahead.

    Good luck Syria.

  12. ArtyHetty

    Absolutely disgusted. The pro war lot will have blood on their hands.

  13. Donald MacKenzie

    A sad day. Please, please, let us extricate ourselves from this madness. Going to war is not being done in my name.

  14. colken

    The rebirth of Labour under Corbyn has been greatly exaggerated. They are dead and now everyone knows it.

  15. Luigi

    Disgusted. 57 red tory bastards. Hell mend em.

  16. Grouse Beater

    And the bastard BBC waves the Union Jack to remind us Hilary Benn is decent sort.

    Benn is on his knees now praying, “Dear Lord, thank you. Now help make me prime minister one day to avenge the destiny denied my father. I am your humble servant. Amen.”

  17. Training Day

    It needs saying again more than ever tonight.

    The Labour Party must be removed from Scotland.

  18. Swami Backverandah

    Benn referenced Tory Cameron’s insane statement: “It makes no sense not to use the RAF’s capabilities across the border that Isis do not recognise.”, when he said:[paraphrase]”Da’esh don’t respect sovereign state borders. Why should we”.

    And the House of Commons cheered.

    It’s disgraceful.

  19. Wuffing Dug

    Jeremy Corbyn is an irrelevant cringing coward.

    We need to get out of this mess, and quick.

    There is a reckoning coming and we need to disassociate ourselves from this travesty.

    Labour have finally committed suicide.

  20. Croompenstein

    What a fucking snakepit! A den of thieves and liars

  21. Jimbo

    Well there we are then, as expected the warmongers got their way.

    Onward Christian bombers…

  22. cynicalHighlander

    Where was Ian Murray?

    The terrorists in Britain were on show tonight.

  23. ronnie anderson


    Indy Camp Holyrood

  24. Luigi

    The Labour Party is finished, courtesy of a weak leftie who doesn’t know how to lead.


  25. Scot Finlayson

    I think if Ben had asked the warmongers to attack Poland they would have joined in behind marching and cheering.

    Cheering/clapping war is the sign of a very flawed democracy.

    The Anglo Saxon/Norman need for blood and war was not going to be denied a second time.

  26. AntiFascist

    Hilary is hilarious. “It’s why this entire House stood up against Hitler and Mussolini.”

    Yeah, right.

    Just think how Britain and Chamberlain stood up to Hitler with their best friend & ally, France and Daladier. Think of dealings of great Lord Runciman that preceded this.

    Btw, when Czechoslovakia asked France to honour the agreement and come to help, they weren’t exactly keen to answer that call. Quite the contrary. That was some standing up as well.

  27. Capella

    Benn’s bid for the leadership?
    A grim day for UK. But the SNP were solid.

  28. bugsbunny

    Ayes 397, No’s 223. Majority 174. 67 Labour MP’s voted with the Government. Wonder if all the marching gentlemen in bowler hats will put on their tin helmets?


  29. jimnarlene

    Not in my name!

    Warmonster, rides rough shode over Scotland’s wishes once more.

  30. galamcennalath

    … and they clapped!

  31. Taranaich

    Nothing to be said. Just tears of impotent, frustrated anguish for all the lives that will be lost – from the hundreds of thousands in Syria who will be rent to pieces by bombs from a faraway land, and those living on our own little island who die of starvation or cold because our government would rather spend money on fire and destruction than food and shelter for its own people.

    I’m in tears as I write this.

  32. No no no...Yes

    It was truly sickening watching Benn getting cheered by the Tories. He has stabbed Corbyn in the chest.

    Benn made his pitch for the Labour leadership tonight. Meanwhile innocent Syrians will die because of this vote. A terribly sad day.

    UKOK? Get us out, now.

  33. manandboy

    Night has fallen in Westminster.

  34. Jimbo

    George Galloway talks about the guff ha has had to listen to on the BBC. He says the BBC has been the main recruiting sergeant for Isil over the weeks. He says this (the vote to bomb) is their (BBC’s) victory.

    Don’t often agree with Galloway but I do on those points.

  35. Stephen Armstrong

    Warmongering Brits!

  36. Brus MacGallah

    Huzzah! Huzzah!
    Guns not butter!
    Oh by Jingo!

  37. Valerie


    Me too. You always have wisdom and eloquence.

    I watched it for hours knew how it would end, but still have tears.

    So ashamed to be part of this Union 🙁

  38. Cadogan Enright

    I think the figures mean Cameron would have been beaten had Labour defectors not gone over to him

    How many times now have red Tories got bent-nose and Ozzy through difficult votes?

    What’s the point of Labour?

  39. Kragos

    So, just to confirm, Cameron has committed to the Underpants Gnomes’ philosophy:

    1/ Bomb Syria
    2/ ?????????
    3/ Victory!

  40. sarah

    heartbroken sick to be part of britain i want out indy now!! blood on the hands of all who voted yes:(

  41. Thepnr

    Although I and I’m sure everyone else that reads Wings was in no doubt of the outcome, it is not enough just to say I’m disappointed.

    I’m fuming, absolutely raging at the folly of this.

    This is NOT a war, it is a symbolism, my cock is bigger than your cock. What is the point. Look at the size of my missiles, much bigger than your missiles.

    You don’t fight ideology with bombs and missiles, you fight them with education and humanitarian aid by showing that you REALLY are the good guys.

    We in the UK, by virtue of our elected representatives have just lost a “war” that we haven’t even yet began to fight. There will be a backlash from the Scottish people, I am certain of that. Those that don’t know? I’ll work harder to educate them, those that don’t care? I’ll make them care.

    They want war, I’ll give them one. A war against their arrogance.

    A Parliament of losers where the “opposition” clap the views of the government. There is now only one shade of Tory, it is Red, the colour of their angry or embarrassed faces.

    The Labour members voting for this should be ashamed.

  42. The Tree of Liberty

    Here we fuckin go, again!

  43. heedtracker

    So what now? Another bloody quagmire, endless union jack draped exciting BBC war news from the front, endless funeral processions to military cemeteries, really weally sad face MP goonshows,

    A year, five years? The Brits are back!

  44. Ian Brotherhood

    My son spent most of today in school ‘buddying’ two Syrian children who arrived in Scotland recently.

    He’s spent this evening trying to learn basic Arabic phrases as the brother and sister don’t yet understand English. It’ll probably be a while before they’ll be able to ‘discuss’ what’s happened this evening. Never mind – they’ll be able to see it all unfold via the esteemed BBC in the weeks ahead.

    We’re now at war. We. Us. Scotland. Scots. At war. Again. Does this, perchance, constitute ‘a material change in circumstances’ since September 2014? And if it doesn’t, can someone please tell us what the fuck does?

  45. bobajock




    Feeling much better together now. We have to end this union, its like being married to a bunny boiler.

  46. Taranaich

    @No no no no… Yes: It was truly sickening watching Benn getting cheered by the Tories. He has stabbed Corbyn in the chest.

    I gave Mr Corbyn a great deal of the benefit of the doubt, but refusing to whip his own party threw every last ounce of respect I had for him out the window.

    “But those 67 MPs would’ve just voted against anyway!” – then let them. If they care more about bombing Syria than respecting the party whip, that’s their problem.

    “But most of the shadow cabinet would resign the whip!” – GOOD. Let the electorate see them for the creatures they are. Better the party thrown into disarray than letting these sociopaths drag them to competing with the Tories.

    “But it would destroy the party!” – and seeing the son of TONY BENN applauded by Tories in a rousing march of jingoism hasn’t destroyed it?

    If Corbyn had an ounce of human decency, then he would have done everything in his power to stop this. It is not “untenable” for him to make such demands of his MPs, it is what people in power are supposed to do – use that power for the greater good.

    Let hell mend him and his worthless, spineless, pathetic shell of a party.

  47. Black Joan

    NOT in SCOTLAND’s name

  48. dramfineday

    Luke 23:34 springs to mind: “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do”.

  49. K1

    330 without Labour’s 67….it was going to happen with or without the Red Tories, so those 67 voted that way cause they want this.

  50. Graham Harris Graham

    I’d take Ed Milliband dribbling burger juice & ketchup down his suit any day rather than suffer that lettuce limp twat Corbyn.

  51. Valerie

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Thank you for that little bit of light. How lovely of your son, you must be incredibly proud.

    I blame the parents!

  52. Jimbo

    Ian Murray says he voted in the same lobby as Alex Salmond but he doesn’t agree with Alex Salmond.

    WTF is it with Labour that they can’t even agree to agree just once – Shower of f*ckwits they are.

  53. Sandra

    Cheers and clapping at the decision in the commons tonight as they vote for further death and destruction. So this is what ‘British Values’ are
    How many more times in my lifetime will I be forced to say Not in my name.
    And Mr Cameron, I am NOT a terrorist sympathiser but tonight I am feeling that terrorists come in many disguises.

  54. jimnarlene

    A petition to sign. Let Warmonster know, we are not in agreement with it.

  55. Dave MacIntyre

    Thought clapping was outlawed in UKOK land. That gripe aside, I am ashamed to hold a British passport and be associated with the warmongers

  56. Dabid

    Only acceptable to clap when it’s for bombing. Disgusting.

  57. manandboy

    Now Osborne doesn’t have to keep any promises of help to those in need in the UK, nor meet his economic targets. Tonight, Westminster set new priorities for the UK.

    War will allow the Tories to implement emergency measures as and when it suits them since an attack on London will now be considered a real and ever present danger.

  58. Tam Jardine

    The tories sure loved Hilary Benn’s speech… was that the sound of Corbyn’s leadership dying? How can he remain in his post after that?

    Will be interesting to know the number of votes for the motion from our Scottish MPs. Do we know if Murray and Carmichael voted for or against the motion?

    What can one add. Will they never learn?

    After we’ve rained hell down on Syria and made the arms companies a shit load of money, after we’ve killed thousands of innocent civilians and sent ground troops in, after we grow weary of our troops being killed and complete a phased withdrawal… after we leave the region in an even worse mess than it is now and wait endlessly for Son of Chilcott: will they finally learn?

    Or will they look to Iran?

  59. Joemcg

    Scotland dragged in to a war by the no voters. Well done the 55%. Those women and children soon to be murdered in Syria thanks everyone of you. Fucking disgrace. Why are the Brits so bloodthirsty and warmongering crazy bastards?

  60. The Man in the Jar

    Thatcher took the country to war.

    Blair took the country to war.

    So isn’t it obvious that you can’t be a “proper” prime minister if you dont take the country to war.

    Tally Ho!

  61. Brian Powell

    Well, if people in England feel strongly that there Labour MP shouldn’t have voted for the bombing of Syria, they should go en masse to the constituency office and make it very clear.

    No point standing around moaning and wringing hands.

  62. Valerie

    Be informed. Do not hide or turn away, and don’t let anyone else, who discusses this.

  63. caz-m

    Sickening, raging, irrelevant, insignificant, ignored, frustrated, beelin. Just some of the feelings that are running through a lot of Scots tonight.

    This MUST convince at least some NO voters that they were conned.

    Indyref2, sooner rather than later.

  64. Richardinho

    Good catch on the clapping0-just shows the dishonesty of these clowns.

  65. Swami Backverandah

    @ June Maxwell

    “Ephialtes (of Thermopylae)”

    and his cousin Ephinarsoles. I feel disgusted.

  66. Ian Brotherhood

    Check out Benn’s face from 1.05 to 1.11.

    He knows that we know that he knows etc, but he’s calculated that it’s got to be worth it – experience has told him that a blood-price has to be paid in exchange for real power.

    And that’s no problem, on condition that the blood isn’t his.

  67. James Barr Gardner

    Just listened to Carbuncle talking about the rule of law, what a fecking raving fecking lunitic liar! These barstewards are scum!

    Vote SNP x 2 in 2016 and again in 2017, let’s tell the Eton mess to feck off, Scotland Rise.

  68. Thepnr

    @Tam Jardine

    Corbyns leadership is surely dead unless he clears out his cabinet tomorrow. Benn will be the leader of the NEW NEW LABOUR I PROMISE party.

    That’s the least the remaining Labour voters deserve.

  69. ClanDonald


  70. K1

    Keep pushing the petition folks…it’s gathering signatures at some rate…

  71. Doug Daniel

    That’s absolutely incredible. What a sickening reaction.

    (And how awkward is it when he tries to sit back down at the end and he can barely get between Corbyn and Watson?)

  72. Clootie

    Someone always profits from war and Mr. Benn has decided it will be him. Labour Party leadership is the primary motive bur a Lordship will do.

    I have necer seen such a practised fake speech celebrated with such praise.

    Labour and LibDems achieved a new low tonight – a remarkable feat given their current position.

    The Butchers Apron donned with pride once again.

    …sorry Syria

  73. stonefree

    @ Tam Jardine
    Murray says He voted against
    Fatty no doubt would be for,i suspect
    but could you believe them is the question?
    Re Benn
    Benn is as bad as his father Antony Wedgewood-Benn and before that Viscount Stangate ,
    search the clips where he shut down industries,under Wilson the disposal of the TSR2 is a fine example

  74. manandboy

    The voices of reason fell on 397 pairs of deaf ears in Westminster today including those of 67 Red Tories. Faced with a choice of such magnitude and with the certainty of death and injury for the women and children of Syria, not to mention UK military personnel, even so, reason was denied.

    We can be clear about one thing: the governance of the UK lies with people who have lost the plot, and who have yielded to the same forces which motivate Daesh, and are based on the axiom ‘you kill us, we kill you.

    Only outward appearance distinguishes them. More than anything perhaps, they have this in common – they don’t care who gets killed or injured when they pull the trigger.

  75. scottieDog

    No doubt the doors will be revolving now between parliament and ftse 100 lobbies.

  76. manakamura

    It will all be over by Christmas ….. in this case, it may be true of Corbyn.

  77. HandandShrimp

    Looks like they have sent two Tornado air craft off immediately the vote was cast. I thought Cameron would want to make a quick mark to seal the deal.

    All a bit odd. If it goes tits up as it has everywhere else it may Cameron’s Blair moment.

    The Labour party are I suppose no great surprise. Many of those voting Yes were stick on Blairites.

  78. ScottishPsyche

    What a repulsive spectacle tonight. I have never felt more detached from this hideous union. Another pyrrhic victory for Blairite Labour. A message will arrive soon from Daesh maybe in a shopping centre in Manchester or Hogmanay in Edinburgh.

    How can we justify what we are about to do in Syria?

    Disgusting, obscene and immoral. I feel like weeping at what lies ahead.

  79. geeo

    As said by someone above, 397-67 labour ayes = 330 = war inevitable anyway.

    Does that include the 10 labour abstentions ?

    If not then there you have it.

    That aside, if Corbyn whipped the vote then it is probable that Cameron would not have brought this motion to the house in the first place, as he said himself, “i will not bring this issue to the house unless it is CERTAIN we shall win”.

    Maybe labour hope this illegal war will even out the effects of the Chilcott enquiry (if it ever comes out).

  80. Ian Brotherhood

    @K1 (11.48) –

    It certainly is.

    At 23.20 it had 10,833 signatures.

    On the stroke of midnight it has 19,663.

  81. Tony Little


    SNP pol already over 20k

  82. Angra Mainyu

    Britain the little terrier can’t wait to get in there to please the master in Washington. We’ll show them how you deal with these tribespeople… And the Russians don’t scare us either, we’ve been poking the bear for the best part of 200 years.

    So, bomb a few Syrian Army positions, antagonise Russia, ratchet up the tensions and take the world to the brink of apocalypse. For a few fleeting moments the screwed-up Etonian pervert boys will bask in the limelight and feel relevant again.

    Anyone and everyone who thought this was about saving us or Kurds from ISIS is potty.

    Note that the British only supplied the Kurds with small arms. There’s a reason for that.

  83. Thepnr


    Well said. I’d add when these 367 make their vote, who is is it for?

    Their constituents, the Syrian people, themselves? Or somthing else?

  84. The Man in the Jar

    I just took another rather incredulous look at that Youtube clip. That’s ISIS’s next recruiting video right there.

  85. Indigo

    On twitter, Stan Collymore has just cut up his Labour membership card and has joined the SNP

  86. Joemcg

    I Wonder if Syria had the capacity to retaliate and reign bombs on English cities these bullying cowards would be so quick to vote in favour? Aye right.

  87. caz-m

    Mhairi Black and her fellow MPs should all now start clapping enthusiastically every time one of the SNP members makes a speech inside that den of iniquity.

    That seems to be the new rule these days, is it not?

  88. Chic McGregor

    Tony Benn may have sold Scotland out on oil but he must be spinning in his grave tonight.

  89. caledonia

    If those that voted no are sympothisers (spelling)
    are those that voted yes child killers

    why dont labour not go the whole way and call themselves Conservative light

  90. Jim McIntosh

    The way the numbers crunched Cameron would have won by 40 votes if Corbyn had placed a 3-line whip on his members.

    Interestingly only 7 Tories voted against. If it had been closer who knows how many Tories would have defied the whip.

    So if Corbyn had whipped the Labour Party it’s entirely possible Cameron would have called off the vote.

  91. Lollysmum

    Petition signed -24,000+ now

    Angry & sickened by tonights spectacle.

  92. caz-m


    Signed SNP petition, hitting 26,000.

  93. Valerie

    @Man in the jar

    Absolutely! As Stephen Fry said, don’t do what they want you to do.

    Not that hard to believe the depth of stupidity though having listened to hours of…..

    but France;
    but they will come here, and get us;
    we have to play our part;
    we have a moral duty;
    they hate our way of life

    You get the picture. High on emotive rhetoric, short on facts.

  94. Thepnr

    The Syrian civilians unable to escape their towns tonight are the biggest losers as UK planes already make their way there.

    There will be a price to pay for this decision both in human life and political life.

    Corbyn is finished and so are Labour in Scotland. I’ll weep for Syria, not for Labour.

  95. Dumb Unicorn

    On the morning of 8th May when it dawned that Cameron had a majority, I said to my other half that we’d be at war within 6 months. Sadly I wasn’t far off. I wish more than anything that I’d been wrong, but this was inevitable.

    The Tories have been itching to destroy Syria since well before the start of this government, before Paris, before chemical weapons. They were just waiting for their cue.

    Still in tears like many others, so sad for the ordinary people whose lives are going to be destroyed with weapons we paid for.

    There are no magic bombs which will only kill the ‘baddies’ and the fabled intelligence which will allow the UK to target them with pinpoint accuracy is a complete myth. They now know the bombs are coming, they’ll just surround themselves with civilians and hide themselves in places like schools and hospitals – taking the gamble that either the bombers won’t dare hit them, or if they do, they’ll take as many civilians with them as they can.

    So many people were touched by the poor Syrian boy who was found dead on the beach, wishing they could have done something to save him. And here we are 3 months later, with our ‘so called government’ condemning other children who are still alive now, to the same fate.

    We live in desperately sad times 🙁

  96. K1

    28,867 as I write this caz…

  97. Thepnr

    Let’s not forget the Lib Dems voted for this monstrosity also.

    What say you Willie?

  98. David Wallace

    I think we have just witnessed a very public coup. However, this time the Blairites won’t quit and form an SDP Mark II – they intent to squat the ruins and force Corbyn out through attrition.

  99. crazycat

    @ Ian Brotherhood at 11.38

    This isn’t meant to come across as trite or flippant (when I’m raging I can’t always tell, especially on the internet), but as a fellow devotee of puzzles, I hope you’ll appreciate these that I’ve just come up with:






    not many intervening steps in either of those! (Thought I should play safe with the asterisks.)

  100. Ian Brotherhood

    @Tony Little (12.02) –

    It’s now at 28,843.

    I’m not even in the SNP, and I’ve signed it.

    SNP membership is, what, 113k?

    That seems a reasonable target then…

  101. Famous15

    Hilary Benn used all the imagery of the Second World War to colour his tawdry speech. Daesh is a criminal gang operating over sccessfully by our stupid policy and our lack of balls to confront their wealthy supporters. They use the local population as human shields so bombing inevitably leads to civilian casualties.

    Benn’s closing remark about us all doing our bit ,again a reminder of WW2 ,is like asking us all to help to bomb civilians.

    Not in my name,you bastards!

  102. heedtracker

    BBC tv newsday propaganda NOT showing the above howling and jeering, just the vote result being read out, in solemn dignity.

    BBC propagandists/shysters really know their stuff.

  103. Phronesis

    A war amongst the people here and there,no mandate from Scotland for it . We are all diminished by this intractable conflict and the inevitable civilian deaths- many will be children.

    No commitment to tackle the funding of Daesh because that would involve an intervention with 2 allies , one is a member of NATO, the other an oil rich Middle Eastern state. The blatant hypocrisy will not be lost when we hear platitudes about empowering moderates and fostering economic, social and political developments whilst weakening and discrediting radicals when we see the first casualties and witness an emboldened Daesh.

    A gigantic squandering of public resources for a war of choice no doubt benefiting many friendly business contractors,not risking elite lives only those hundreds of miles away who are already living with despair and tragedy.

  104. Thepnr

    @Ian Brotherhood

    I’m not in the SNP either but dammed right I signed it.

  105. The Man in the Jar

    at 12:23am

    Absolutely. Can you imagine watching that video clip from the perspective of a young arab sitting in the bombed out ruins of his home surrounded by dead relatives.

    I will be surprised If that doesn’t make the next ISIS recruiting video.

  106. manandboy

    The Benn speech did enormous harm to the Union by inflicting a terrible wound on Labour. And to do so in such circumstances, the impact could not be greater.

    Labour is now like siamese twins who cannot live together due to irreconcilable differences. Separation is unavoidable. Democratic Socialism and Neoliberal Conservatism cannot coexist in the same party. The end of the Union just came one big step closer.

  107. caledonia

    the above poll is still taking in over 200 names a minute at this time of night

  108. Iain More

    Just when you think they cant get any more obscene the Brit Nats sink to new lows. Benn was or is a truly disgusting individual amongst hundreds of them!

    Just sickening!

  109. Petra

    Britain Goes to War …. to hand-clapping and cheering. I wonder what viewers at home made of that?

    @ Steven Roy says at 10:25 pm ”You have to ask why Labour’s final speaker was speaking against Labour policy.”

    Alex Salmond pointed this out earlier tonight Steven and reckoned it influenced the outcome of the vote. The whole set-up was stage-managed and that included hand-clapping Hillary Benn. Cameron is as cute as get out.

    @ Angra Mainyu says at 12:03 am ”Note that the British only supplied the Kurds with small arms. There’s a reason for that.”

    Yeah Angra I hear that they have to face every modern type of weaponry under the sun with machine guns. The only ‘boots on the ground’ on our side …. ha ha! A great deal came ‘out’ in the Commons today including the US / Nato / Turkish spiders web of deceit.

    Hillary Benn’s speech? I wasn’t ONE bit impressed with it, especially when he talked about ground troops … just brushed off the whole crux of the matter / key area for potential failure / finding peace.

    Did anyone hear Ian Murray on TV earlier (standing beside Carmichael and Alex Salmond) being questioned about voting? I couldn’t believe it. He started talking about SNP MSPs tweeting at the end of the night. Does this wee guy not remind everyone of the most hated kid in school? The wee, nasty revengeful clype. In saying that he should keep it up. Let everyone see him for what he is.

    Anyway this is it folks we’re in but will we ever get out of this? Only if we get our Independence and I see that it has started already …. more people moving from Labour to the SNP.

    Like most people on here my thoughts are with the thousands of poor, innocent, desperate souls tonight who now know that more fire and ‘brimstone’ is heading their way. I can hear their pleas for help and woeful cries from here. Praying for a miracle …. for peace the World over.

    And once AGAIN I’m saying, with you, ‘NOT IN MY NAME’.

  110. Kenny

    Almost three-quarters of our country (Scotland) is against air strikes.

    I would not oppose UDI on this matter.

    Iain Brotherhood, that is braw about yer son, dinnae forget that he should tell the Syrians that they are not just Syrians now… they are also Scots.

  111. Ian Brotherhood

    @Thepnr –


    Let’s keep posting reminders then – by very rough calculation, it’s getting 200 signatures every minute.

    It’s now at 33,362.
    At 23.20 it was at 10,883.

  112. Capella

    33,898 now. with the speed of a Wings fundraiser.

  113. Bob Mack

    Three cheers for death,and a round of applause for murder and mayhem.

    I truly despair.

  114. Petra

    @ Clootie says at 12:36 am ………

    I would imagine that every terrorist on the planet now has their hands on this list of names. The names of the numpties that professed to want to keep Britain safe. You couldn’t make it up.

  115. Thepnr


    Observant, and very wise. I liked a lot.

  116. ahundredthidiot

    I would like to congratulate the USA

    They want a war with Russia and Iran and now they have their canon fodder.

  117. Ian Brotherhood

    @Kenny (12.46) –


    I will tell him that, and that it was from you – right now, I feel so fucking ashamed of this country that I can’t bear the idea of him having to face people whose kinfolk are about to be slaughtered by us.

    I don’t know he’ll deal with it all any more than I can get my head around how those Syrian weans are faring with being here right now, in the fucking cold and damp and gloom. It must be a total nightmare for them.

    How it would be for our weans if they were suddenly hauled off to a strange country, but could easily access footage of their neighbourhoods being blown to pieces?

    ‘Grotesque Chaos’ is a fine phrase to sum-up what happened in the HOC last night, but it doesn’t come anywhere near describing the current state of the Labour Party. At best it’s a twitching corpse, and if Hilary Benn has any useful function remaining in this life it will be to deliver the coup de grace by becoming its leader.

  118. yesindyref2

    As I posted before I was undecided about this, not knowing enough – been too busy, and tended to ingore it, not wanting to be dragged in to spending time finding our again what it’s all about – though I was up to speed with the chemical weapons over 2 years ago, basically predicted what Putin should do, which he did. Didn’t watch the debate, though I did watch Salmond’s good speech.

    But I did look through the list of names of Labour MPs who voted with the Conservatives and recognise many of them. Many if not all who oppose Corbyn, and I wonder if their prime purpose wasn’t the vote, wasn’t Syria, but was to discomfort and undermine Corbyn.

    That’s almost enough to make my mind up for me, the decision shouldn’t have been about party politics, but principles.

  119. Stoker

    There can be no more a sickening site than a medieval cesspit full of paedophile supporting warmongering fanatics going totally orgasmic at the thought of killing innocent defenseless civilians.

    Tonight i am thoroughly ashamed that my country voted to remain under the control of that obnoxious shitehole, Warminster.

    Absolutely scunnert!

  120. Thepnr

    I’m still hurting, but as much as it pains me I had to watch that video again. The cheering, clapping and celebration of a Labour front bencher seat speech by Tories still disgusts me.

    That prick should cross the floor for a seat on the bench where he should be sitting or oust Jeremy Corbyn and make his own manifesto.

    It’s easy to make that speech when war with Syria will not hurt him.

  121. Petra

    @ Ian Brotherhood says at 1:01 am ”… but it doesn’t come anywhere near describing the current state of the Labour Party. At best it’s a twitching corpse, and if Hilary Benn has any useful function remaining in this life it will be to deliver the coup de grace by becoming its leader.”

    Best thing that could happen Ian. Let the Blairites and Hardieites go their separate ways and here’s hoping that Corbyn takes the vast majority of Labour supporters with him. That would take the smirk off of Benn’s face plus the 66 who voted with him and the 10 that abstained. Until that time I hope that their constituents ‘kick them out’ at the first available opportunity.

  122. Thepnr

    Can’t be said enough. So I’ll say it again.

    Don’t Bomb Syria

  123. joe macfarlane

    Another English PM booking his seat at The Hague for war crimes , if Chilcott has all this time and still no date of publishing, just exactly when will the inquiry into this fiasco be published ?

  124. mealer

    It’s smashed through 37000 at 1.25am.This will go crazy tomorrow when folk get up.

  125. mealer

    Petition rising by 30 a minute at half past one in the morning.

  126. Petra

    I see that McCain agrees with us. Looks as though it was all for nothing right enough, eh? Great old British Empire my a*s. Seems that everyone else can see them for what they are …. a second rate wee Island (southern part that is).

  127. K.A.Mylchreest

    And that, I think, just about wraps up the ‘Labour’ Party. JC has lost his MPs, but the Party has lost most of its potential supporters/voters in the country. Talk about Scotland being a one-party state, with no effective English parliamentary opposition the UK is now a one-party state.

    Welcome to Airstrip One. WAR IS PEACE … INGSOC is always Right …

    “What we need at this stage of the war, Perkins, is a futile gesture …”

  128. ScotsCanuck

    … well, I don’t know what to add, but merely say that I agree with all that has been written above. Democracy ?? … where ?… reason ?… where ? …. Jingoism ? …… every bloody where !!

  129. mealer

    Very proud to be a member of the SNP tonight.

  130. Petra

    @ mealer says at 1:27 am ”It’s smashed through 37000 at 1.25am. This will go crazy tomorrow when folk get up.”

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if people from across the UK (or the World) signed it mealer and got it into the millions? In saying that would Westminster give a whit?

  131. asklair

    On a positive note this shines a spotlight on the war machine. In my opinion Corbyn is trying to bring change to his party by harnessing the new growth in its grassroots.He was never going to win the vote but if he survives he will win the power base by getting the grassroots members to remove the red tories. As I said its my opinion, time will tell.

  132. Thepnr


    Another poster Breeks, I think made reference to Ingsoc recently. Now that you mentioned it I thought I would look it up. Very apt.

    “It is clear that “English socialism” (Ingsoc) emerged within the Socialist Party. However, the origins of Ingsoc have been obscured, as the Party continually rewrites history.

    Oceania appears to have emerged as a formal political union of the United States and the countries of the British Commonwealth, which later annexed the remainder of the Americas and all of Southern Africa. Big Brother and Emmanuel Goldstein led the Party to power in Oceania after a revolution of some kind.

    After the Party achieved control of Oceania, Ingsoc became the official governing ideology and other political beliefs were increasingly marginalized. Goldstein and Big Brother later became enemies, and differed in their interpretation of Ingsoc.”

    Total fiction. Though that is the direction we are headed. Arseholes that we are.

  133. mealer

    Aye,wouldn’t it? Hope over fear.

  134. Petra

    Now at 38,740 (1:57am). Fantastic. I’m off to bed. Let’s see where we’re at tomorrow.

  135. macnakamura

    Hilary Benn speech tonight has got the bookies in a spin because he is now odds on to be next leader of Labour Party and of the Conservative Party

  136. Valerie

    Listening to RT – watching the hawks.

    It’s criminal that with all the information in the public domain and talked about, written about, by reputable people, that this country is bombing Syria.

    A professor from Harvard telling the hosts that its common knowledge that Erdogans family have just spent millions on oil storage facilities.

    The American hosts were asking why the West would not talk about it.

    RT reporting the debate in detail.

  137. mealer

    Where I’ll be at tomorrow is I’ll be safe in my own home.There will likely be Syrian Nairnshire bombed out of their homes though.

  138. mealer

    Nairnshire?? Should be bairns.

  139. schrodingers cat

    better together

    I wont let these naw bags forget this

    every photograph of dead Syrian children will now be posted on social media with the bt logo in the corner

    murders together.

    we have the high ground, don’t let them forget it, rub their noses in it

  140. schrodingers cat

    ode to Scottish labour, courtesy of r. burns

    Ye Hypocites!
    Are these yer pranks?
    tae murder men
    an’ give God thanks?
    desist, for shame!
    proceed no further
    God won’t accept
    yer thanks for murder

  141. Barbara McKenzie

    I don’t know why I’m so gutted, as NATO have been bombing in Syria for ages. Of course the best war is a one-sided war, ask Israel.

    I’ll tell you what I think part of the problem is:

    Like many, I was disappointed in George Galloway’s attitude to Alex Salmond and the independence referendum,


    He has been one of the very few politicians who hasn’t bought into the Butcher of Damascus line (being a continuation of the Joan of Arc was a witch, Napoleon ate babies, Ares Velouchiotis was a sadist, Arthur Scargill was corrupt, Jeremy Corbyn is the new Hitler version of history, ie the mendacious denigration of anyone who gets in the way of the British establishment).

    He has also been one of the very few who have seen through NATO’s irrational, hypocritical, at best impracticable strategy of (ostensibly)opposing ISIS but refusing to work with legitimate forces. Only yesterday he was arguing the case for working with Syria and Russia. Russia has an agreement with Syria that it will work with Syrian ground troops when it comes to urban areas, so as to minimise civilian casualties, which makes a lot of sense, but as we know the Allies prefer the ‘bomb Dresden’ approach.

    It is quite obvious that *if* NATO countries are sincere about tackling ISIS, if they are *genuinely* upset about Paris, then it makes no sense to refuse to work with the Syrians and Russians. Corbyn should have tried harder to get this across to the electorate, instead of buying into NATO’s arrogant ‘al Assad must go’ policy .

    O/T I have just watched a fascinating, moving and very convincing interview with a Syrian volunteer with the National Defence Force, which has the very dangerous job of clearing terrorists out of urban areas in such a way as to minimise civilian casualties and damage to property; it includes a 500-strong woman’s unit. People who accept any part of the NATO narrative might rethink, or might not.

  142. donald anderson

    Only two Scots MPs voted for this jingoism. Even if all the Scots MPs voted against we still would have been outvoted. Another nail in the Unionist coffin. Another reason for a Referendum vote.

  143. Quinie frae Angus

    Can’t sleep for thinking about the children and families in Syria about to get blown to smithereens by bombs with our name on them. Like everyone else on here I am raging and sickened.

    Can any other insomniac Winger help point me in the direction of any polls where the Scots people voted against these air strikes? I know of the recent Independent newspaper one, which I think had 72% of Scots against, out of an unweighted sample of 2,000, but does anyone know of any others?

    Needing it for a f****** annoying Unionist FB friend who is – predictably trying to turn this into an “SNP Bad” story.

  144. Macart

    Words fail.

    Last year Scotland voted to retain this ‘union’. Voted to undersign the actions of Westminster government. Had Miliband got into number 10 the vote would have gone no differently. THIS is the reality of the no vote.

    Whatever happens in Syria we are now part of… the United Kingdom.

    When you next visit a polling booth, please take time not just to consider what a party will deliver for you, but what their government will do in your name. We may, if there is any justice, get another chance to form our own system of government in the not too distant future. Should you find yourself so fortunate as to be able to make the choice again we were given in 2014, remember all that has occurred in 2015 since that first vote.

  145. Strak1314

    I’m no.42,216 @ 5am

  146. Graeme Hillan

    Grouse Beater says:
    2 December, 2015 at 10:34 pm


    Benn is on his knees now praying, “Dear Lord Satan, thank you. Now help make me prime minister one day to avenge the destiny denied my father. I am your humble servant. Amen.”

  147. David Wallace

    Trolls goose stepping all over Twitter tonight.

    Wargasm (noun) the climax of sexual excited old & inadequate men when young, old or innocent killed by military action.

  148. Cameron Brodie

    Ignorance is Peace, War Is Strength, Better Together

  149. Wulls

    Swami Backverandah says:
    2 December, 2015 at 6:05 pm
    What they’re not telling all those hand-wringing must bomb fannies in the Commons.

    William Hague in the Lords – from Groaniad liveblog
    Hague says Syria and Iraq may need to be broken up

    “William Hague did not speak for long in the House of Lords, but he made two important statements.

    Hague said it might be necessary to break up Syria

    Short version: military takeover and carve up

    Yeah…….divide and conquer fairly worked in India.
    Have we learned nothing from history.

  150. john king


    I have no words.

  151. Ken500

    Scotland will not be going to illegal war. This vote will break up the UK. Scotland will vote for Independence. The Tories have done it again. Alienated Scotland and the rest of th UK. They are breaking International Law. Get your nukes and Jets out of Scotland dumped here without permission.

    The majority are sickened by this decision Another betrayal by the medieval, alien institution. Every unionist politician will be voted out of Scotland. Scotland will vote for Independence. This divided vote will ensure that happens.

  152. WP

    Cannot believe how my views on humanity are so different from my neighbours. Even some so called “Scots”. We all know many innocent people will die, we all know these deaths will not be reported, we will be told that all air strikes have hit terrorist targets when we all know from previous experience that won’t happen very often. The propaganda machine that is Westminster has now made the world a more dangerous place for everyone and they actually cheered it. Waken up Scotland ! Break away from this madness.

  153. Ken500

    Benn will be praying to retain his seat. Most of the Blairites were imposed in Constituencies’ by Blair, against local consent. The rules of the Party have changed. There could be a great clear out. A purge. New Party members could ensure the Party goes back to it’s roots. Blair lost Labour millions of votes.

  154. john king

    Anyone else here wondering what Benns motives are?
    no me neither!

  155. frogesque

    Not in my name!

  156. yesindyref2

    So that’s the first mission, took off within an hour of the vote apparently, no surprise. Paveways used it seems not the smaller Brimstone. Infrastructure.

    I presume once the Typhoons get to Akotiri they’ll be used for Paveway missions, and the Tornados more for Brimstone moving and smaller blast targets.

    No comment.

  157. john king

    A good start line for “SMART” bombs is to actually hit the RIGHT country!

  158. ronnie anderson

    Hilary Benn has secured his birthright title Arise Viscount Stansgate,you know the one, his father fought to rid himself off.

    FKin disgrace.

  159. galamcennalath

    New series?

    “I’m a Scot … Get me out of here!”

  160. Ken500

    The planes had already left the night before the vote. They were in Cyprus. Democracy, it’s just a bloody joke. The majority are sickened by this vote. It will be enough to turn the 5% or more to Independence. Breaking International Law again.

    Benn wants to be leader, but could find himself dumped.

  161. Les Wilson

    Well,what we have now, is a Tory government which is out of control.There is nothing they will not do if it suits their purposes.Nicola needs to start hovering above the button.
    I guess the no’s will be under the covers when our first fatality occurs. ” It wisna me!”

  162. Bob Mack

    Sleepless night. I cannot rid my mind of the debate and its aftermath last night. We had people , elected representatives who during their speeches talked about how much suffering the decision for war was causing them.

    After Benn spoke these same people actually gave applause for his view of taking military action to bomb Syria.

    We do not applaud something we hate.It was a powerful scene which will take some time to leave me.
    Behind the clapping and the cheering lurks death for many innocents in Syria. I am no pacifist, but neither am I a murderer. Last nights vote was for murder.

    I am not emotional by nature, but something stirred in me last night on witnessing these scenes. I am a Scot from Glasgow and I fear nothing or no -one, but I do fear for those who can find these events acceptable.

    We are about to bomb with others, a civilian population trapped in the midst of lunatics using them as human shields, with probably no financial or logistical means of
    escape. I never thought I could ever truly hate,but I do.

    Time we made our own future.

  163. Free Scotland

    Notice how the BBC are cheer-leading for Hilary Benn this morning? Oh yes, and just casually dropping in a wee mention of the fact that six death-deliverers will be flying out of Lossiemouth in the north of Scotland.

    Shame on them. I hope everyone who voted for this madness suffers nightmares for the rest of their natural lives.

  164. Iain

    All Mps that voted for the illegal war are war criminals and liable for trial at the Hague.

  165. yesindyref2

    There were aleady 8 Tornados in Akrotiri flying bombing missions in Iraq, the 2 Tornados and 6 Typhoons are to supplement them and allow them to treble or quadruple the sorties per day it seems.

    For what’s been indicated as the remit by Fallon, where he emphasised the civilian safer smaller Brimstone being used the jets are the wrong way around. The Tornados already extended in life were extended beyond March 2016 for another year, but need a lot of maintenance so can’t fly many missions whereas the Typhoons can. The Tornados will probably be used only for the much less deadly Brimstone, whereas the newer Typhoons only for the much more powerful Paveway.

    I can’t help feeling there’s been a bit of unspoken deceit in the presentation of all this to the UK Parliament, perhaps relying on MPs not having techie knowledge. I could be wrong.

  166. Joemcg

    Perusing the zoomer columns shows that the nawbags don’t give a flying. One calling the SNP cowards! I despair.

  167. Daisy Walker

    The petition is over 50,000 this morning.

    Am away to the wardrobe to see what else I can donate to the Syrian refugees. A wee saltire and the message ‘not in my name’ will be going into the pockets.

    I feared this outcome was the plan, even before the no vote in sept 14, what bastards.

    As for labour, Healey and Tony Benn they saw war first hand, and they never forgot it. Hillary is a self serving warmonger. RIP Labour you have no clothes now, even in England.

    Poor bloody Syria.

  168. Macart

    @Free Scotland

    “I hope everyone who voted for this madness suffers nightmares for the rest of their natural lives.”

    No, they won’t. They should, but they won’t.

    As for that holier than thou prick Farron and the disgrace that is Labour? I watched Farron on Sky preaching the ‘we’re doing it for them and our Allies line’. The urge to retch was almost instantaneous.

    Then Labour, the peoples party. Pretty fucking selective over who they deem people it appears. I almost had a twinge of regret for their electoral fate recently. Happily I’ve gotten over it and Benn confirmed why.

    There is no people’s party left. They badly and I do mean badly cleaned out of our politics root and branch. If we want a platform for indy2 to free ourselves of what we witnessed yesterday, you know what to do in May next year… SNPx2.

    Not in my name.

  169. McBoxheid

    50,554 now signed
    It was never going to make a difference. Once the war drums start beating, the English smell blood. They can’t have foxes yet, so Syrian blood will do.

    Listening to it off and on yesterday and hearing so many Labour say yes, I knew then it would come. Because of the time difference, I didn’t stay up, but this morning I had a tear in my eye as once again, the weapons lobby and warmongers get their way. They smell profit!

    Funny that they are not even considering bombing Boko Haram, I wonder why? Not really, there is no oil and little to gain financially in “rebuilding” there.

    When will the majority of people in Scotland wake up and realise that the southern part of this Union has absolutely nothing in common politically with Scotland?

    We are getting there but what must still happen before it does.

    I despair

    If Scotland gets it’s independence will we be the next target for debate in the commons? We have oil, so it’s possible.

    I want to rant and swear and bawl my eyes out at this travesty.

    I wonder how many new recruits Da’esh will get at home and abroad and by how much the threat has now risen.

    Boots on the ground has to come or how else they will they have control of the ground to enable their Pillage.Co.UKOK to go in and make that huge profit on the blood of innocents?

    How many of these warmongering barstards said during the debate “many of my constituents are deepy concerned” or were against the bombing, BUT I’m going to vote for it because the PM wants me to and I haven’t got a mind of my own?

    FFS ALL the expert opinion was against getting involved, but hey ho, the French needed us to hold their hand once again.

    You can’t trust them. They promised to help the Jacobites, but never turned up. The promised to help the Chechs but couldn’t quite manage. The UK is always bailing them out 2 World Wars for example, and when the French aren’t begging for UKOK help they try to conquer Russia. How did that one go Napoleon? They started bombing 14 months ago, then Paris happened. Quelle surprise!

    Now the UKOK has dragged Scotland into another war, yet again against our will. This is surely another significant betrayal. How many others do we till we split from this poisonous, coniving, deceitful, lying, thieving, greedy and monstrous warmongering Union?

  170. Les Wilson

    Cameron et al, “Oh what a lovely war”

    Time for a NOT IN OUR NAME RALLY?

  171. Black Joan

    As Great British Bombs rain down on innocents in Syria, certain Labour MPs bleat about being the TARGET of what?

    “Bullying” e-mails threatening deselection, calling them Red Tories and warmongers.

  172. john king

    Fallon; “precision bombing will protect civilians”
    Eh, naw!
    Im with Limmy on this one

  173. heedtracker

    BBC national tv news reportage on runway at Lossiemouth watching Typhoons take off, says its ironic that SNP Angus Robertson voted No to war but he’s the local SNP MP. Suppose it is irony. Another drip in Cyprus says its war for years now.

  174. Grouse Beater

    How many times must it be said?: The Brits cannot shake off their colonial mentality, and English have a built-in disliked of foreigners. Anything ‘Arab’ is top of their list. Lawrence knew it.

    Thank you No voters for identify Scots with bigots.

  175. Robert Louis

    I see the SNP anti-bombing petition started late last night, is now increasing at a cracking pace.

  176. Les Wilson

    I am sick to death of the gloryfing of war in Westminster, they always find one and find a reason to jump in.
    I am sick to death of civilians being murdered.
    They so love their wars.

    I am sick to death of Westminster, on many fronts but the wars they drag us into are a very big reason.
    Not in my name.

  177. Ghillie

    What have they done?

    I feel ill with sadness.

    This is so so wrong.

  178. heedtracker

    Member for Slovenia, future First Minister of his Scotland region also had a great night.

    Over excited toryboys love war, shock.

    Adam Tomkins Retweeted
    Jackson Carlaw MSP ?@JacksonMSP 10 hrs10 hours ago
    Dreadful night for the reputation of the @theSNP #SyriaVote

  179. john king

    How does this grab you

    Stan Collymore ?@StanCollymore 9h9 hours ago

    Done. No more Tories infiltrating the grand old party of working people anymore. Time to change.

  180. Hugh Barclay

    Lets go blow shit up sums it up for me, no coherent plan, just lets go blow shit up, no exit strategy, just lets go blow shit up.

    This bollocks about France asking for assistance is fine but the UK Gov’s response, lets go blow shit up is far from good enough, one would expect that kinda response from a tin pot dictator, Oh wait.

  181. john king

    “Jackson Carlaw MSP ?@JacksonMSP 10 hrs10 hours ago
    Dreadful night for the reputation of the @theSNP #SyriaVote”

    Lets make sure we have that comment archived so we can rub his fucking nose in it when were proven right yet again.

  182. Socrates MacSporran

    I recall an old joke about an Irish navvy passing a pub in which a fracas is in progress, putting his head round the door and enquiring politely: “Excuse me, is this a private fight, or can anyone join in?”

    Thus it is with the UK Government, their Red and Yellow Tory brethern and the situation in Syria.

    There do not seem to be any “Good Guys” in that benighted region of the world – just Bad Guys, Worse Guys, Even Worse Guys, Psychos and Total Psychos.

    This is a religious/sectarian war, with the additional ingredient of oil – no sensible person would go near it.

    Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson in particular played blinders in the HoC yesterday, but, the English, in full Imperial “peacekeeper” (that’s a joke) mode, wanted and got their war.

    The consequences for England will be horrific – we MUST re-double our efforts to get out of this cursed Union, before any more Flowers of Scotland are put in harms way.

  183. Colin Church

    Just seen Guido’s list of Tory War supporting Labour MPs.
    Corbyn did not whip the vote but LFI surely did! The cancer within.
    Palestine, Yemen, Syria. Britain carries me to the wrong option every time. I do not want US, Turkey, Israel and Saudi Arabia as my allies.
    I do want a quiet, independent northern European country to call home untainted by future Britnattery. FFA dead in water. Leave defence and foreign affairs to these lunatics? No chance.

  184. yesindyref2

    @ john king says: “Fallon; “precision bombing will protect civilians”
    Eh, naw!

    That’s why I’m going on (and on) about the difference between Brimstone and Paveway.

    Brimstone has two explosives, the first to penetrate a tank, the second to blast it to bits. But it’s capable of being operated with just the first explosive from what I understand, which would penetrate say a car, and kill the driver and passengers, with very little if any other casualties.

    Paveway is a big guided 500 lb bomb.

    Fallon talked about precision bombing protecting civilians, i.e. the Brimstone with just one small charge. The very first raid on Syria by the RAF was with Paveways.

  185. yesindyref2

    I meant to add, that difference is not something I expect the media will bother reporting on.

  186. heedtracker

    SLab twitteratti, normally roaring heads off on SLabour’s internationalist party of greatest internationalism, gives their latest endless war on hot countries far enough away not to retaliate hardly a mention. Very creepy bunch.

    While internationalist SLabour dude Blair says SNP opposition is,

    Blair McDougall ?@blairmcdougall 9h9 hours ago
    Many outward looking internationalists had doubts & voted against. As for this, parochial doesn’t even come close.

    Slaughtering people from 20,000 feet, in a jet from Lossiemouth, in endless war, is not parochial.

  187. Colin Church

    Oh-oh. Paragraph breaks.

    Sorry, putting my fingers through keyboard when typing.

    So bloody angry.

  188. Macart


    I don’t think I could come up with two more irrelevant individuals to Scottish politics or public opinion if I tried.

    Carlaw and Tomkins should know better than anyone what the Tory vote share was in May. As for their comment? That Carlaw and Tomkins apparently support Hameron should come as no shock to anyone.

    I couldn’t be more proud of our representation yesterday.

  189. john king

    Brimstonecan be as “precise” as it likes but if it enters”precisely” the wrong window, it will with great “precision” kill “precisely the wrong people with admittedly great “precision”!


  190. heedtracker

    BBC 24 tv advert for Victoria Derbyshire next up, very exciting war news, full bombing coverage, explain, aim, fire, no body parts, blood, guts, screaming women, maimed shell shocked children

    Victoria Derbyshire ?@vicderbyshire 59s59 seconds ago
    0915:reaction to RAF jets dropping bombs on Syria (both Labour MPs [voted against] have pulled out this morning). Plus reax to Pistorius

    BBC jingos are go!

  191. Bill Fraser

    What an exhibition of callous and bloodthirsty cheering by a hoard of misguided fools.Not in Scotland’s name thank God,though our lads will be involved in the bombimgs no matter what.

  192. Grouse Beater

    I propose we fire at ISIS all the British politicians who voted for bombing. It’s cheaper, and it gets rid of two homicidal sects at once.

  193. heedtracker

    It should be funny reading around red/blue tory unionists but it’s not. A UKOK clown says its not thousands of civilians, silly, its less than thousands, so shut up and let us get on with UKOK war.

    Maggie Chapman ?@Maggie4Scotland 10 hrs10 hours ago
    So angry that self-important “representatives” not only vote to kill thousands of civilians, but then applaud themselves for it #SyriaVote
    263 retweets 262 likes
    Reply Retweet 263
    Like 262
    Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 10 hrs10 hours ago
    .@Maggie4Scotland It wasn’t a “vote to kill thousands of civilians” Maggie. Why must you be so dishonest?

  194. Anne

    To me the most telling thing about this so-called debate is that it has nothing to do with supporting the people in Syria (if that were the case then the UK would be welcoming its fair share of refugees) and everything to do with politics and Cameron strutting his stuff on the world stage while tossing Eton school boy taunts at Corbyn. I was happy to see the SNP taking a strong stand against this. And as for Cameron, well we all know how Blair’s reputation has plummeted

  195. Angra Mainyu

    Barbara McKenzie says: “He has also been one of the very few who have seen through NATO’s irrational, hypocritical, at best impracticable strategy of (ostensibly)opposing ISIS but refusing to work with legitimate forces. ”

    I thought the same way until I realised where I had gone wrong. I assumed the strategy changed when Russia entered the frame and it probably did for a day or two; my working hypothesis over the last 30 years is that they only ever bomb those who can’t fight back. I assumed since Russia was there, they would stop targeting Assad.

    The downing of the Russian jet and how it has been handled diplomatically suggests to me that they are still aiming to achieve regime change as a primary goal. That in effect means the RAF are probably going to go after Syrian military targets.

    The whole story about helping France our closest pals and the evils of ISIS struck me as very insincere yesterday. It was a typical example of sociopathic minds using an emotive subject as a means to an end, something we in Scotland were at the receiving end of in the referendum.

    A real strategy aimed at confronting and destroying ISIS would look nothing like this. And the debate yesterday, if that was the real goal, would have focused on the sort of stuff Salmond alluded to afterwards and the need to work with Russia.

    My guess is that elements in Washington want to teach Russia a lesson or something. There’s no way the British would go down this road without the nod from the godfather. The Americans since about 1947 have regarded the Middle East as their sphere of interest. They think they own it.

    This whole thing is potentially disastrous. You know you are dealing with a potential disaster when the British press and all the usual suspects tell you that it’s no big deal and not likely to make a bit of difference. It’s important they do that, I suppose, so that they can all act surprised when it explodes in our face as it most likely will when they target Syrian military elements.

  196. Sinky

    Hilary Benn’s speech roundly cheered and applauded by the Tories reminded me of Jim Murphy’s tactics during the referendum campaign.

    Maximise one’s self publicity,fated by the media and the Tories whilst the real long game is to undermine the elected leader of your party.

  197. Capella

    So, have we finished clearing Daesh out of Iraq now? How did that campaign go? It’s been a couple of years.

    Looks like Russia kyboshing the oil convoys has put the wind up the West faster than a Brimstone missile. Time to move in.
    It’s about oil, and gas.

  198. Sue Varley

    Wales voted against too, albeit by a much smaller margin than Scotland. English Votes for English wars just about sums it up.

  199. Grouse Beater

    How short a time since those self-same warring politicians hung their head in silent respect on Remembrance Day.

  200. heedtracker

    Far right UKOK Horatio Nelson also very aroused by Labour jingos

    And what we know about fascists is that they need to be defeated. And it is why, as we have heard tonight, socialists and trade unionists and others joined the International Brigade in the 1930s to fight against Franco. It’s why this entire House stood up against Hitler and Mussolini. It is why our party has always stood up against the denial of human rights and for justice. And my view, Mr Speaker, is that we must now confront this evil. It is now time for us to do our bit in Syria. And that is why I ask my colleagues to vote for the motion tonight.


    [CHEERS] by same exact nutters that started it all.

  201. McBoxheid

    Please sign this SNP don’t bomb Syria petition if you don’t agree with Warmonger’s decision to bomb the shit out of Syrians with no concept of how to proceed after the bombing stops.

  202. Ian Brotherhood

    Keep it going…

  203. Macart

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Already signed Ian.

  204. One_Scot

    I am not sure this is what many NO voters were expecting when they told us we were ‘Better Together’.

    The only power we now have is to vote SNP x 2 in May.

    There’s not a day goes by that I don’t think, if only, it could have all been so very different.

  205. heedtracker

    Victoria Derbyshire show with softly spoken Tory MP’s explaining IS throw gay men off roofs, so lets go to war. Why now? Does it take mass murder in Paris for red/blue toryboys to act over atrocities, in Iraq or Syria? Victoria Derbyshire asks, not.

  206. Robert Louis

    This is just like Iraq all over again. As the old saying goes, ‘Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it’.

    Aye, Scotland dragged into a right bl**dy mess, against our wishes, yet again. If war isn’t a reason for seeking independence, then nothing is.

    These bombing raids are nothing but macho posturing by the British colonial state. Seriously, we have Russian, French and USA airforce jets bombing Syria to bits, does anybody seriously think 2 freaking tornadoes (circa 1980), and 6 Eurofighter typhoons will make ALL the difference?

  207. Lollysmum

    Website has crashed-can’t cope with the volume I guess. 60,000 a few minutes ago

  208. scott

    caz-m says:

    Mhairi Black and her fellow MPs should all now start clapping enthusiastically every time one of the SNP members makes a speech inside that den of iniquity.

    That seems to be the new rule these days, is it not?

    It may be petty but I totally agree and the sooner the better.
    As for Benn and the rest of the happy clappy warmongers let them send their sons and daughters to fight in Syria with Cameron in the front oh dear what’s that brown stuff running down his legs.Hell mend them all.

  209. Glamaig

    Very worried at the tone of the BBC this morning. Masturbatory descriptions of Tornado weaponry. This kind of attitude to deadly ordnance is a bit perverted.

    The BBC is getting more creepy and sinister by the day – all delivered in those trustworthy honeyed tones of course – a polished and sophisticated propaganda machine.

  210. heedtracker

    “Airstrikes against Iraq, airstrikes against Syria are go” explains BBC Scotland news dude at Lossiemouth. So are we at UKOK war with Syria and Iraq again or is this just BBC fog of war stuff?

  211. Lollysmum

    Website backup now-no wonder it crashed-its taking about 30 signatures every 20 seconds 61,212 now

  212. Luigi

    So, our medieval masters secured their wonderful “victory” in the castle of Westminster last night and how they whooped in delight and clapped loudly as they set off on another crusade against the nasty medieval muslims in the Holy Land (not personally, of course, not one of them, or their own sons and daughters will risk life and limb – someone else has been sent to do their dirty work as always).

    Like every crusade before it, they will soon come back with their tails between their legs, bankrupt, in complete denial and blaming someone else for the disaster. Unfortunately, many innocent victims will loose their lives in the meantime.

    Why do we continue to put up with this?

  213. ahundredthidiot


    You’re starting to do my heid in, so, you’re saying brimstone can enter a car, kill occupants, with very few other casualties, or words to that effect.

    No glass or metal shrapnel, no other traffic or pedestrians, car will just stop and put its handbrake on, it won’t catch fire and the fuel tank will be just fine?? Jeez

    I think you’ve seen too many movies mate.

    Explosions are not controllable events.

  214. Sue Varley

    Does anyone know how many of these super smart precision Brimstones UK has?

    Given that the Corp. media war porn is going all out on how friendly our bombs are, I was wondering what proportion of our attacks will be with the nice friendly bombs, and how many will be the nasty inaccurate sort that might just kill a civilian instead?

    Cos I’m sure no-one is mentioning that we might use any of that old, bad sort at all?

  215. Luigi

    scott says:

    3 December, 2015 at 9:40 am

    caz-m says:

    Mhairi Black and her fellow MPs should all now start clapping enthusiastically every time one of the SNP members makes a speech inside that den of iniquity.

    Good idea – remind people what a bunch of hypocrites they are.

    happy clappy warmongers

    What a great description – so accurate. 🙂

  216. john king

    ahundrethidiot @9.47

  217. Lollysmum

    Stop the War Coalition Protest. 5pm tonight-Buchanan Street steps

  218. Luigi

    Glamaig says:

    3 December, 2015 at 9:42 am

    Very worried at the tone of the BBC this morning. Masturbatory descriptions of Tornado weaponry. This kind of attitude to deadly ordnance is a bit perverted.

    Yes, sickening ain’t it? Corporate media schoolboy reporters and armchair generals getting all worked up about near-obselete 30-year old aircraft that will be obliterated if they get in Putin’s way. The Syrian army are apparently being equipped with Russian s-400 anti-aircraft systems, which unlike the oft, over-ratted British kit, are actually state-of-the-art.

    Britannia rules the waves!

  219. Training Day

    This is the British state in all its unalloyed hideousness. Blackmailing its own citizens and traducing those who won’t be blackmailed as ‘terrorist sympathisers’. Braying with delight as its elite group of avaricious warmongers and arms dealers masquerading as democrats send other people’s children off to die. All shored up by the emollient propaganda of its state broadcaster and its supine and useless media.

    Still, pictures of Prince George look cute, eh, No voters?

  220. yesindyref2

    None of you seem to get the point I’m making. So I’ll try again one last time for the hard of understanding.

    Fallon and others have been talking about few if any civilian deaths, which would be possible with Brimstone.

    But not with Paveway.

    The RAF used Paveway.

    Get thg message? Yet?

    It’s not about condoning or agreeing with the use of any missile, it’s about the worse one being used, whereas the less dangerous one wasn’t.


  221. Valerie

    Signed petition, and shared, but I feel very defeatist.

    One of the arguments, among many I used in the run up to the referendum, was Scotland being peaceful, and only patrollingborders, with a humanitarian aspect in any conflict. Most understood that to be a sensible and honourable stance.

    If anything comes of this, I hope more Scots understand this UK move, and understand the deaths we are now part of.

    It makes me physically sick. How can they say it’s two years? How can America be in there for 14 months and no headway?

    The whole thing stinks, it’s obvious, yet we have tweets supporting and jubilant, as above from these blinded cretins.

  222. yesindyref2

    The RAF have been bombing Iraq for months, with little media attention.

  223. One_Scot

    ‘Day after 57 out of 59 Scots MPs oppose bombing Syria the UK deploys jets from Scotland to bomb Syria’

    Having just read this tweet from Angus Robertson, I have never felt so helpless with regard to making a better future for my children.

  224. manandboy

    “It is critically important, Mr Speaker, that we are honest with the British people about the potential consequences of the action the Prime Minister is proposing today.”
    (Jeremy Corbyn, yesterday, in the Commons.)

    ‘It is critically important, Mr Speaker, that we are dishonest with the British people about the potential consequences of the action I am proposing today.’
    (David Cameron’s thoughts yesterday, I imagine. And not just yesterday, but everyday.)

    David Cameron is to politics what Dr Harold Shipman is to patient care.

  225. McBoxheid

    +1 for SNP doing the happy clappy thang when any SNP member says something in the House of War.

    Why is it called the Ministry of Defence, when there has been only foreign war involved without any need for defence?
    There should be honest and rename it Ministry of Warmongering, Moneygrabbing Sycophants.

  226. ahundredthidiot

    Billy Connelly used to joke about friendly fire being OK when you’ve just had you’re balls blown off by your own side, it was very funny the way he said it.

    This pishtalk about smart friendly bombs is just as crude and inept.

    This is not (yet) a conventional war, so its really about entering a sovereign state without their invite and killing civilians without any sort of trial, evidence or Intel.


  227. Ken500

    Hilary Benn will fail. He and the rest of the imposed Blairites will be thrown out of Office. That is why they are voting with the Tories. They are Tories. Blair lost the Labour Party millions of vote, they need to get elected. Blair/Brown illegal wars and banking fraud cost the UK £1.3Trn. The Labour Party is going back to it’s roots. It is now one member one vote.

  228. Valerie

    Luigi @9.59

    You wonder how nervous RAF pilots are flying into what kind of logistical mess, and not knowing just what weaponry is trained on them

    Putin has put all the oil stealing footage public for journalists to examine, and says there must be no double standards in dealing with terrorists.

    Without overall cooperation, would you be sure of your route?

    Due to the differing objectives, the craziness of the jihadists, this will end very badly.

    Russia is clear they are cutting off NATO member, Turkey, big time.

  229. Anagach

    Precision weapons are only as good as the intelligence that is used to deploy them.

    The USA has form in claiming people killed only to find it was a completely different group of people they precision murdered.

    (sorry its not archived).

  230. Luigi

    ahundredthidiot says:

    3 December, 2015 at 10:01 am

    Billy Connelly used to joke about friendly fire being OK when you’ve just had you’re balls blown off by your own side, it was very funny the way he said it.

    I think Jeremy Corbyn had his balls blown off last night (not that he showed any to begin with), courtesy of Hilary Benn.

    Friendly fire, of course. Collateral damage.

  231. Brian Powell

    So, this:

    14 dead, 17 injured.

    If it turns out this man who went to Saudi Arabia before doing this did it as a terrorist act will the US now bomb Saudi Arabia? We know the answer.

  232. ahundredthidiot


    Apologies for banging on about this, but it could be argued that the massive rise in drone investment is down, in part, to pilots returning with their payload, although ‘pilot safety’ is the party line.

    And I detect you may know someone in theatre, so I say this in all seriousness, pilots dropping payloads on civilians, just like Dresden, are not soldiers, seamen or airmen. They are state sponsored murderers.

    Little wonder pilot on BBC right now, won’t allow himself to be identified, TV camera shoot is from behind.

    All men (and women ofcourse) worry about their souls.

  233. Brotyboy

    Thanks for the link to Kinnock’s speech and that specific website.

  234. Luigi


    Unlike Cameron’s dangerous gesture, Putin has a clear plan. The oil/arms corridor between Turkey and IS is now under extreme pressure and will soon be closed, cutting off the lucrative shipments of arms and oil that benefited certain individuals on both sides of the border. The attack on a Russian bomber was a sign of frustration by President Erdgogan, whose relatives have been implicated in these illegal shipments. Putin will not be caught off guard the next time. Since the attack on the Russian airliner in Egypt, I think Putin has determined to finish off IS once and for all.

    Turkey is now under extreme pressure and could de-stabilise quickly now. The big question is what do NATO (i.e. the Americans) do about it? Whatever happens, whatever the Americans decide, the loyal Brits will be in there, doing their bit. And in the meantime, you can bet that IS are planning a big response before they are wiped out completely. Worrying times.

  235. Hugh Barclay

    So there was no need for action when Jihadi John was lopping the heads of British folk but its ok now because Cameron says IS are killing Muslims and raping women.

    This fucking honks of bullshit because it is bullshit.

  236. manandboy

    OK, let’s have a quick review of the situation :

    To defeat Daesh three things are needed:-
    1. Destroy their internet based propaganda capacity (GCHQ)
    2. Cut off their money supply (The City)
    3. Take military action (underfunded conventional forces)

    Now you would think that Cameron would play to the Uk’s strengths, which would be 1 & 2, and avoid it’s weaknesses, no. 3.
    So what does he do, and with remarkable immediacy? – no. 3.

    This makes no sense whatsoever, and yet that is what the Tories, blue & red, have done. It is puzzling to say the least, but requires an explanation nevertheless.

    Perhaps we shall get one soon.

  237. Luigi

    ahundredthidiot says:

    3 December, 2015 at 10:18 am


    Apologies for banging on about this, but it could be argued that the massive rise in drone investment is down, in part, to pilots returning with their payload, although ‘pilot safety’ is the party line.

    And I detect you may know someone in theatre, so I say this in all seriousness, pilots dropping payloads on civilians, just like Dresden, are not soldiers, seamen or airmen. They are state sponsored murderers.

    Little wonder pilot on BBC right now, won’t allow himself to be identified, TV camera shoot is from behind.

    All men (and women ofcourse) worry about their souls.

    Drones also need pilots. The only difference with conventional aircraft is that the drone pilot can be thousands of miles away in the safety of a command and control centre.

    I may be wrong, but I would have thought a drone pilot would be just as culpable as an aircraft pilot, if they got it wrong and killed hundreds of innocents.

  238. Colin Church

    Additional to my post @ 08:53

    45 out of the 66 Labour bombers are Friends of Israel supporters.

    We are “doing our bit” in OUR national interest?

    Did ye, aye?

  239. Col

    I hope now that the SNP will clap when they wish to their hearts content in the commons and if pulled up for it give the two fingers by ignoring the speaker. The speaker should be pulled up for allowing clapping on a serious issue like going to WAR.
    Come on everybody.
    If you`re happy and you know it clap your hands. Clap clap.

  240. call me dave

    BBC: First air strike was on Syrian oil fields!

    I wondered why we were in there….too angry to comment further. Signed the stop bombing petition last night.

    SNP x2

  241. Ian Brotherhood

    Just gone over 65k –

  242. caz-m

    The BBC reporting this morning that another SEVEN fighter jets have just left RAF Lossiemouth this morning heading for Syria.

    Did it fill me with pride? No.
    Do I feel more secure? No.

    All that it meant to me was that there are now SEVEN fewer Englishmen in Scotland this morning.

    (My point from a previous post, that all RAF fighter pilots are English)

  243. ahundredthidiot


    Not quite, there is a team of people operating in a shared environment which dilutes the impact of any decision to deploy, that and the point you make about distance.

    There is an old trick to play on someone with say, a gunshot to the leg and in pain (obv med aid aside) get him to look at the injury through the wrong end of his binos so the injury looks far away – pain diminishes. Even imagining looking at it through wrong end of binos reduces the pain. Amazing trick. Psychology apparently.

  244. Bob Mack

    @call me dave,

    Stops Daesh stealing the profits till we invade

  245. ronnie anderson

    Clapping directions for Idiots

    They wont be going to heaven in any boat.

  246. caz-m

    President Assad of Syria has just announced that the UK bombing on Syrian soil is illegal.

    “Airstrikes against ISIS in Syria ‘illegal’ without Assad’s OK – report”

  247. Proud Cybernat

    If 72% of the people of Scotland are against this murder (it’s not a war) and if the UK Govt continues to use Scottish air bases to send its bombs to Syria then I have absolutely no doubt that there will be a sizeable shift towards indy–probably up now around 55%+.

    And the first time I hear someone say, “We must unite together to support our brave boys,” I’ll poke their fecking eyes out. I’ll pray our troops return safely but the tub-thumping, butcher’s apron-wearing sabernats can go to hell.

    Your move Nicola.

  248. call me dave


    That’s the invisible border the Tories keep referring to.The one that won’t be there when the big countries carve up Syria again like an old jigsaw puzzle.

    @Bob Mack
    Your right!

  249. Col

    I`ve just joined the SNP, would be nice if they/we get another surge in membership due to Westminster`s disgraceful warmongering decision yesterday.
    Vote the unionist parties out of Scotland in 2016/2017.

  250. dakk

    It will never change.

    The British are hardwired to imperialism and war.

    This state and its people love war.

  251. Valerie

    Nick Kochan talking to Max Keiser, he seems happy to call out the British insanity in foreign policy.

    Pretty good picture of the most dangerous border in the world,where Da’esh are just another trading partner to all and sundry, and not just oil.

    It’s apparently where all the antiquities are traded.

  252. John Thomson

    After the commons performance Cameron is spoilt for new Lord candidates, Hillary is my top slot.

  253. Robert Louis

    It may sound trivial, but it isn’t. Last night in the house of commons, MP’s applauded a speech. They were not chastised by the speaker. Every time ANY SNP MP applauds a speech, they are told off by the speaker, as such behaviour is strictly forbidden in the house of commons.

    This, albeit a small example, is just exactly HOW Westminster is not a democratic institution. One rule for the English, and a different rule for Scots.

    As it has been since 1707. ‘Better together’, indeed.

  254. Ruby

    I had thought that I had become a YES voter due to the Iraq war but after watching some of this debate I remembered an early memory of a time I spend in the South of England during the Falklands war.

    I was absolutely astonished by the flag waving/jingoism on display. I knew then that I didn’t want to be part of all that I found it all very disturbing.

    I would have been very surprised if this vote had gone the other way.

    I fail to see how NO voters could have expected a different result.

  255. ahundredthidiot

    People think this action brings indyref2 closer. Maybe.

    I hope so.

    But I know what would kill it dead. NATO at war with Russia and Iran. Killing Scottish Independence would be a fringe benefit for the UK.

    Just imagine it, Scotland wide open target, etc etc, it would put project fear to shame. And we would lose to the ‘let’s stick together and back our brave boy’ brigade, you know, those all year round poppy wearing types.

  256. Jim Mitchell

    How British, we are not going to war, merely doing our bit!

    Then the fools actually cheered over people being killed.

  257. Ruby

    Proud Cybernat says:
    3 December, 2015 at 10:53 am

    And the first time I hear someone say, “We must unite together to support our brave boys,” I’ll poke their fecking eyes out. I’ll pray our troops return safely but the tub-thumping, butcher’s apron-wearing sabernats can go to hell.

    Ruby replies

    I agree with that.

  258. Grouse Beater

    When Hilary Benn sat down after his war makes men out of mince speech, he sat on Corbyn who was forced to move aside to give him room – that gesture and at that moment Benn knew he had just positioned himself physically and mentally as Labour’s next leader.

  259. Peter McCulloch

    What I found disturbing is what Cameron said about Daesh not recognising borders in order to justify the UK’s participation in the bombing of Daesh in Syria.

    That’s a rather dangerous argument to make, because what happens then if Daesh decamps to say Jordan and operates from that country, will Cameron then argue for a bombing campaign in Jordan?

  260. john king

    “that gesture and at that moment Benn knew he had just positioned himself physically and mentally as Labour’s next leader.”

    Saw it, and it was calculated to show Corbyn being shoved aside without a doubt.

  261. Socrates MacSporran

    I had just started work when the Cuban crisis broke in the early 1960s. We lived in Ayrshire, but my first job was in Edinburgh. I can remember going off to Edinburgh one Sunday night, unsure if I would see my parents again, such was the fear of global conflict and the unleashing of nuclear arsenals.

    I have not felt such fear until now. This Syrian adventure will end badly – very badly.

    The retirees group to which I belong has spent the last few weeks studying the situation in the Middle East, it truly is a minefield of conflicting and conflicted interests, but, at its heart is the centuries-old Shia v Sunni sectarian conflict.

    Why are we getting involved? It makes no sense. We, as the USA’s lap dogs seemingly wish to impose regime change on Syria, because we dislike the Assad regime – regime which is the legal government of that country.

    Now, we are seeking the impossible, by bombing the shit out of one anti-Assad group, Daesh, while supporting various other anti-Assad groups. But, by doing this, we are offering help and support to Assad.

    We are turning a blind eye to the various nefarious activities of Saudi, Turkish and American-backed groups who are also anti-Assad; but, by our determination to bring-down Assad, this will upset the Russians.

    We refuse to send heavy arms to the Kurds, the one effective local opposition to Daesh, this is a recipe for catastrophe on a world-wide scale.

    Daesh seeks the apocalyptic final battle between Islam and the Christian West. I have seen forecasts, this conflict will come to a head around 2020.

    I have five grandsons, aged 20, 19, 10, 8 and 3. I have no wish to see them conscripted to fight in this or any other war – more-so a war as ill-conceived as the one on which we have just embarked.

    An independent Scotland has a chance of staying out of the conflict – we must bring this about.

  262. Robert Peffers

    @Steven Roy says: 2 December, 2015 at 10:25 pm:

    “You have to ask why Labour’s final speaker was speaking against Labour policy.

    Jings! Someone have we actually got someone who knows what Labour Party Policy is? Must say I don’t and, going by recent events, neither does the Labour Party.

    The members and Jeremy want one thing, the elected members and half the shadow cabinet want something else.

    Jeremy wants one thing and Kezia wants something else. English Labour want one policy, Labour in Scotland want another and Labour in Wales cannot make their mind up what they want.

    Looks to me like not even Labour knows what they want.

  263. Grouse Beater

    John Saw it

    Not a single member of the MSM mentioned it, John. I’m pleased someone else spotted the move and the only interpretation of it. It was so blatant.

    Benn must despise Corbyn.

    Good old socialist camaraderie – eh?

  264. heedtracker

    Hard core toryboys thrilled with it all, one’s embarrassed to be Scottish, the other relentlessly monstered Scottish democracy.

    Deerin’s just one more dreary toryboy wetfart but Schama’s a oddity. How come we’re not bombing the Saudi’s and so on.

    Chris Deerin Retweeted
    Simon Schama ?@simon_schama 11 hrs11 hours ago
    Magnificent speech by @hilarybennmp :heartening at to hear the issue laid out as resistance to theocratic fascism.

  265. Scot Finlayson

    Those wondering about the BBC`s love of war and its obsession with the Brimstone Weapon of Mass Destruction,

    the Vice Chair of The British Broadcasting Corporation is Sir Roger Carr,

    he is also Chairman of BAE Systems,

    BAE Systems is the major shareholder in MBDA,

    MBDA is the company that developed The Brimstone Weapon of Mass Destruction.

    BBC is a tool of the Establishment.

  266. Robert Peffers

    @ArtyHetty says: 2 December, 2015 at 10:31 pm:

    “Absolutely disgusted. The pro war lot will have blood on their hands.”

    I’m an old man and their hands have never been clean in my lifetime and, according to my late father, not in his lifetime either. My Grandfather also fought in several UK wars too in his lifetime.

    None of us had any choice, for we were all in turn, in our lifetimes, conscripted by UK governments and all of us were anti-war.

  267. rog_rocks

    Am not long after texting “call kay with an e”; I doubt it will be read out;

    “Why didn’t the speaker of the house prevent his mainly English parliamentarian friends from applauding, “HAVE SOME RESPECT” a “furious speaker” told our Scottish mp’s for breaking “strict commons protocol”…
    This suggests to me that the speaker of the house is an anti-Scottish racist!
    The decision to bomb Syria is a disgrace considering that the Daesh terrorists wishing to cause us harm are already here among us, this action will merely encourage them hence making us less safe rather than more safe. The opposite of the suggested intention.”

  268. Bill McLean

    HOw dare these Westminster cretins put Cyprus in the front line. Most Greek Cypriots have no time for the British due to suffering under them for so long like many other countries. When, oh when, will we be free of these embarrassments that inhabit the Westminster cesspit?

  269. Capella

    Looks like “the West” (UK, USA and pals) have been funding and arming Daesh all along via Saudi, Qatar (home of Aljazeera) and Turkey. Daesh steal Syria’s oil, depriving Assad of the income, sell it on the Turkish border, bank the proceeds, keep on beheading.

    The Russians know this and have bombed the supply chain. NATO, furious, pretends to be attacking Daesh now. But the real motive is to get rid of Assad. Next stop is Iran.

  270. heedtracker

    Another Deerin wannabe traveler of the right twerp, RT’s another display of how Westminster deceives without hesitation.

    “Somber silence” and hysterical jingos baying for slaughter. It looked a lot like a Roman coliseum in all its bloodthirsty fury at the Commons last night. But the great UKOK fraud must go on.

    euan mccolm Retweeted
    Chris Bryant MP ?@RhonddaBryant 43 mins43 minutes ago
    Chris Bryant MP Retweeted Mhairi Black MP
    You know that is untrue. The vote was greeted in somber silence. Chris Bryant MP added,
    Mhairi Black MP @MhairiBlack
    Very dark night in parliament.Will never forget the noise of some Labour and Tory cheering together at the idea of bombs falling #SyriaVote
    140 retweets 76 likes
    Reply Retweet 140
    Like 76

  271. Bill

    Wonder if we’ll bomb them on Xmas day?

  272. Robert Peffers

    @Training Day says: 2 December, 2015 at 10:34 pm:

    “The Labour Party must be removed from Scotland”.

    The Labour Party needs removed from the face of the Earth, for as long as they exist on Earth they will still feel entitled to own Scotland.

    They are like an aggressive cancer that unless every last cancer cell is excised, will re-grow.

  273. falloch

    Hansard, 2 December, col. 327:
    Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): The Prime Minister will know how members of my party feel when it comes to fighting and dealing with terrorism, and for that there will always be support, no matter where terrorism raises its head. The motion states that

    “the Government will not deploy UK troops in ground combat operations”.

    If it becomes necessary at a later date to do that, will he guarantee that he will come back to this House to seek approval for that?

    The Prime Minister: This is something not only that I do not want to do, but that I think would be a mistake if we did it. The argument was made to us by the Iraqi Government that the presence of western ground troops can be a radicalising force and can be counterproductive, and that is our view. I would say to the hon. Gentleman, and to colleagues behind me who are concerned about this issue, that I accept that this means that our strategy takes longer to be successful, because we rely on Iraqi ground troops in Iraq, we rely on the patchwork of Free Syrian Army troops in Syria, and in time we hope for Syrian ground troops from a transitional regime. All of that takes longer, and one of the clear messages that has to come across today is that, yes, we do have a strategy, and although it is a complex picture and it will take time, we are acting in the right way.

    Cameron does NOT answer the question, but gives it a bodyswerve. As someone posted earlier, the RAF has been bombing Syria for months – this is to get us ready to join the US ‘expeditionary’ force based in Iraq which plans ‘cross-border’ skirmishes, and give the US the figleaf it craves.

  274. David McDowell

    The SNP MPs should applaud every time one of their number speaks and when Bercow gives them a scolding they should applaud that as well.

    Maybe then Bercow and Co will become aware of the bullying double-standards that are being imposed on SNP members regarding applause.

    And the bullies will see they don’t have any power over the SNP members unless the SNP members give it them.

  275. Capella

    RT on Turkish theft of Syrian oil.

    It’s simply not credible that “the West” doesn’t know all this, and hasn’t colluded. What a devious game our Imperial Masters are playing.

  276. heedtracker

    Where do toryboy’s turn to first to make their bullshit case?

    BBC propaganda ofcourse.

    At the very least, it shows the great British media is fully aware of how grotesque their war mongers actually are, by trying desperately to cover up their reality, or another day at the UKOK toryboy media coalface.

    euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 8 mins8 minutes ago
    euan mccolm Retweeted Rosie McGarvey Kane
    no, she didn’t: … euan mccolm added,
    Rosie McGarvey Kane @RosieMKane
    @RhonddaBryant @euanmccolm @MhairiBlack I heard to snooty yahoo brigade droning “yaaaaaaa” on my TV!

  277. David McDowell

    Tam at 11.20pm

    Only Carmichael and his fellow Tory Mundell voted in favour from Scotland.

  278. Bob Mack


    Welcome and well done.

  279. Marie Clark

    I felt sick to the pit of my stomach this morning. What a bloody sight, these performing seals cheering and clapping about killing folk. Not just the bad guys get killed, men, women and children too, and there they stand howling like banshees.

    I have to agree with Robert Peffers above at 11.46. His comments about Labour are absolutely true.

    We need to rid ourselves of these pathetic, self serving creatures before we can reclaim our own country.

    Signed the petition with a very very sore heart.

  280. Les Wilson

    I feel that the speach Benn gave yesterday, will put him in line to take Labour from Corbyn.
    Why do I think that?, well just watch and listen to the applause from Tory and their labour pals who voted yes.

    Benn now has Tory acceptance, and when the time comes they will assist him to get control of labour. His father would be ashamed of him, befriending that bunch of warmongering clowns.

  281. Chic McGregor

    A generation is a long time in politics.

  282. Jack Murphy

    For the Bombing Motion:-
    David Mundell (Con, Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) voted for the motion.

    No surprise there,Scotland’s one and only Tory MP. 🙁

  283. McBoxheid

    Nearing 70,500! Keep it going!

  284. CameronB Brodie

    I tried posting this first thing this morning but it disappeared. I thought I’d lucked on the next headline. Doesn’t look like it though.

    Ignorance is Strength, War is Peace, Better Together

  285. Rab Mac

    Don’t think there’s much to add in light of the majority of comments above, except to say that:

    I was thoroughly disgusted by the sight of that baying mob cheering and applauding the decision to bring death upon the heads of innocent men, women and children who are already suffering;

    Far from “protecting” us, the decision to extend UK airstrikes into Syria make it *far more likely* that there will be terrorist attacks in this country;

    To add to my overall disgust, my MP, ex-interim Labour leader Harriet Harman, voted with the Government. Quelle fucking surprise.

  286. heedtracker

    Ruthie babes piles in. No idea what 60 county coalition is though and nor can proud Scotbut torygirl, that likes sitting on big tank gun barrels, spell either. Tories aren’t really maniacs are they?

    Ruth Davidson MSP ?@RuthDavidsonMSP 3 hrs3 hours ago
    Maybe, just maybe, joining a 60 county coalition to defeat establisment of a murderous caliphate is not about indy?

  287. galamcennalath

    Some figures have appeared in the media over the last few days. They were repeated by Tasmina Ahmed Sheikh yesterday …

    “The recent Russian airstrikes have killed 485 civilians, including 117 children and 47 women.”

    I couldn’t say whether this report and figures are true. Tasmina apparently accepted them. Even if inaccurate, the sheer scale of that ‘collateral damage’ is absolutely horrendous.

  288. mike cassidy

    The BBC are reporting the MOD statement that the RAF planes had advanced sensors that could tell whether or not civilians were present.

    What kind of Harry Potter fantasy bullshit is this?

    Planes carrying equipment that can tell the difference between a ‘civilian’ and an ‘enemy’?

    The straight-faced, unquestioning reporting of this tells you all you need to know about the BBC.

  289. msean

    Don’t those MPs ever think about how the rest of the world views them? Applause and cheers for votes for bombing.

    Could be some interesting general election party leader combinations at the next general election, Corbyn/Johnson, Benn/Osbourne,not to mention that Hilary Clinton could be US president. Hilary and Hilary 🙂

  290. heedtracker

    Hard core unionist toryboy in his Scotland region also furious today, at Salmond, not endless UKOK war, just the shitty man that said no to war.

    Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 25 mins25 minutes ago Livingston, Scotland
    Kevin Hague Retweeted Kevin Hague
    This shitty man has said many shitty things but this might well be the shittiest yet

    Kevin Hague added,
    Kevin Hague @kevverage
    Salmond insults principled opponent by asserting his hypothesised view of their dead father’s opinion


  291. Robert Peffers

    @Jimbo says: 2 December, 2015 at 10:38 pm:

    “Well there we are then, as expected the warmongers got their way. Onward Christian bombers.

    What a travesty of humanity that hive of evil, Westminster, is. Last night they were clapping, cheering and exalting the prospective killing of their fellow humans in the Middle East.

    Today, while watching Westminster direct on-line I heard, (I believe it was Oliver Colvile, Conservative MP for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport), is rather concerned about the falling hedgehog population in England.

    He has been seeking a Parliamentary debate on the issue. He does, by the way, believe the increasing Badger population in England is rather detrimental to that of the hedgehogs. Perhaps they could bomb the Badgers.

    I wonder how he voted in the debate on bombing his fellow humans in the Middle East?

  292. schrodingers cat

    thought Galloway on 2015 last night

    I dislike him immensely but his summary of the situation was spot on

  293. I Clark

    We need to deal with the very real, near and present threat Daesh poses to the safety of people in the UK.

    Therefore, Tornadoes and Typhoons will be flying out of bases in the UK to carry out surgical strikes on local terrorist cells in towns and cities in France and Belgium.

    Doesn’t quite have the same ring to it, does it?

  294. Kenny

    Personally, I thought Benn’s speech toe-curlingly, embarrassingly awful! Like something I would have written at the age of 12 on the bus on my way to school!

    “like we stood up to Hitler and Mussolini…”

    Mussolini seized power in 1922! And it was Italy which declared war on Britain in 1940, not the other way around! And we all know the history of the 1930s and appeasement, if not worse (and long before Chamberlain, who carries the can).

    And if it is like the 1930s, why are we not accepting more refugees? The amount of Syrians allowed in the country is a joke. Do not forget that Anne Frank’s family — and thousands and thousands like them — were denied entry into the USA. But at least America is taking more than the handful we are taking.*

    * And all the time the right-wing establishment media, which pays no tax at all in the UK, is whipping up xenophobia (which should bring criminal charges and prison sentences, in my opinion).

  295. Chic McGregor

    @mike cassidy
    “The BBC are reporting the MOD statement that the RAF planes had advanced sensors that could tell whether or not civilians were present.

    What kind of Harry Potter fantasy bullshit is this?

    Planes carrying equipment that can tell the difference between a ‘civilian’ and an ‘enemy’?

    The straight-faced, unquestioning reporting of this tells you all you need to know about the BBC.”

    Probably made by the same company that do the fictitious detector on their licence detector vans.

  296. Bevrijdingsdag

    Corbyn is a Crapbag.
    Benn is aw Gung-ho.
    Nae policies or principles.
    Jist Spinelessness on show.

  297. heedtracker

    What a travesty of humanity that hive of evil, Westminster, is. Last night they were clapping, cheering and exalting the prospective killing of their fellow humans in the Middle East.

    All of this nightmare displays why Westminster will never become an actual representative democracy.

    Scottish PR Holyrood produced the representatives we have today, all NO for war.

    Since 97′, in nearly two decades, UKOK red and blue established has declined and retreated, merely to be propped up by a staggerly corrupt BBC media led goon show that relentlessly monsters all of PR Scottish democracy.

    Or maybe it is all just coincidence.

    This outfit leads the way to UKOK greatness, and their Scotland region doesn’t even exist.

  298. CameronB Brodie

    Strange. I’ve just re-read the thread and notice my original post now shows, though it didn’t appear initially. Technology, eh?

  299. Nana

    Not a conspiracy theorist but I’m considering asking Santa for a tin foil hat.
    Posted several links re the Syria situation three times this morning and no show.

    Sometimes they take a while to appear as I understand Stu needs to approve but after a couple of hours since first posting I’m thinking the powers that be don’t like those links one little bit.

  300. Jimbo

    Just watching the politics show – The pro-bombing MPs don’t like being held to account.

    Holding them to account by either tweeting them or demonstrating against their decision outside their office is now classed as organised bullying.

  301. Awizgonny

    Hate to add this to the fearful and horrifying consequences of the powers now at play – in a year’s time, with Russia facing pressure on access to its bases in both Syria and the Crimean peninsula, the US may well be playing its Trump card.


  302. donnywho

    Chic, look you really don’t understand the cunning of those Boffins at the MOD.

    The bombs can tell if you have read any Harry Potter, as we well know Death Cult Islamic Fundamentalists would never read our new Bards work.

    That is why our Boffins are so cunning the explosives contained can tell the difference between the followers of Death eaters and Death cultists

    This is why Britannia is so Great

    Ps they also will not explode in the presence of children unless they are going to become terrorists. So there will be no collateral damage and therefore it will not be reported.

  303. Petra

    @ Jack Murphy says at 12:13 pm ”For the Bombing Motion:-
    David Mundell (Con, Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) voted for the motion. No surprise there, Scotland’s one and only Tory MP.”

    I wonder what his constituents make of this? The 800 that swung the vote. Time for them to ‘bomb him out’.

  304. John H.

    If those MPs who voted yes to war came to their decision reluctantly only after much heart searching and thought, as many of them claimed. Then why were they cheering and clapping so enthusiastically at the result of the vote?

    There isn’t a bright spot in all of this mess that I can see, but at least the whole world can see the contrast between the SNP stance and that of the warmongers there last night.

  305. Nana

    Article from 15th Nov

    Hilary Benn: Shadow Foreign Secretary says Labour won’t back air strikes on Syria

    The shadow Foreign Secretary says that, after Paris, the emphasis must be on peace talks and helping refugees

  306. McBoxheid

    I posted before, but it doesn’t accept my links, never does. A country issue?

    I suggested that Vera Lynn’s ‘There always be an England’ might top the English charts after the happy clappy lot in Warmonster voted to go to another war.
    It’s full of good of Empire lyrics

  307. Scot Finlayson

    `The BBC are reporting the MOD statement that the RAF planes had advanced sensors that could tell whether or not civilians were present.`

    If they have the capability to differentiate between terrorists and civilians every airport,border,high street,etc would be equipped with these `advanced sensors`.

    As stated before the second in command of the whole BBC Sir Roger Martyn Carr is in charge of BAE Systems which sells the tools of war,

    the BBC telling the world how marvellous these weapons are helps sell them and increases the shares of BAE systems which is very good for Sir Roger Martyn Carr .

  308. Robert Peffers

    @Tam Jardine says: 2 December, 2015 at 11:20 pm:

    “The tories sure loved Hilary Benn’s speech… was that the sound of Corbyn’s leadership dying? How can he remain in his post after that?”

    Aye! Tam, I believe you are correct. I posted here on wings, when Corbyn first gave his MPs a free vote on the matter, that he had just signed his letter of resignation.

    Last night he posted that letter.

  309. McBoxheid

    mike cassidy says:
    3 December, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    The BBC are reporting the MOD statement that the RAF planes had advanced sensors that could tell whether or not civilians were present.

    What kind of Harry Potter fantasy bullshit is this?

    Planes carrying equipment that can tell the difference between a ‘civilian’ and an ‘enemy’?

    The straight-faced, unquestioning reporting of this tells you all you need to know about the BBC.

    Must be the same antifratricide makings we painted on to our warriors in the Gulf War. Didn’t stop the Americans taking one out and killing 8 people, mostly Scotsmen from the Queens Own Highlanders at the time. This is absolutely ludicrous.

    Even if they can detect people using IR or thermal Imaging it cannot show fiend or foe or innocent humanshiels civilians. It might differenciate between women and children, but a pilot approaching a target at that speed won’t have time to distinguish before the release their payload.

    Absolute bollocks as you rightly say.

  310. stonefree

    The applause??
    Remember that Robin Cook got a standing ovation at his resignation speech,
    It’s only if your a SNP MP that chastised

  311. Petra

    @ Nana says at 12:44 pm ”Not a conspiracy theorist but I’m considering asking Santa for a tin foil hat. Posted several links re the Syria situation three times this morning and no show. Sometimes they take a while to appear as I understand Stu needs to approve but after a couple of hours since first posting I’m thinking the powers that be don’t like those links one little bit.”

    Nana join the club. Over the last 2 /3 weeks or so many of my posts have just disappeared and I’ve noticed that they seem to be the ones that contain very ‘contentious’ facts, that I’ve managed to unearth.

    Additionally taking into account that (online) Wings is at the forefront of the Scottish Independence cause (threat to the State) and reaching thousands of people you can bet your bottom dollar that we are all being monitored by GCHQ.

    I’ve also encountered some very strange things going on with my computer and some very strange people hanging around my fairly remote home (with private road access) such as on returning home early one day I caught two well-dressed men walking from my rear garden down my (long) drive. Said they (one older English man / one Scot) were employed by a company planning to build homes in the area which I knew was a load of old garbage. Asked why they were on my property and got no direct answer. Contacted the Council and they agreed with me …. no houses were being built in my area at all. Searched for the name of their company (on the side of their van) to no avail.

    I’ve had so many problems with my computer such as it was hacked into last September when I was sending data all over the place pre-Referendum. Someone installed an ex-military type protection on my computer (maybe it’s monitoring me, lol) which is constantly being disabled. I just give up.

  312. Kev

    Watching Sky news coverage of this is like watching kids on Xmas day getting excited over the new xbox game they’ve just got.

    Constantly up at their big screen salivating over the super duper weaponry of Britain’s “unique” bombers, parroting the Fallon line about how the Brimstone can track and destroy a vehicle doing 70mph and kill only the occupants.

    Great, so the Daesh guys know they can just put the foot down a bit and they’re in the clear. Or what if they just hijack a civilian car or van and drive that between towns to re-supply etc, the Brimstone knows not to hit them now, right?

    According to wiki, the only other airforce to have these super-smart bombs are the Saudis, so since we’re a bit short on planes why don’t we ask them to give us a wee hand n send their bombers up to join ours attacking Daesh, I’m sure they’ll happily oblige…

  313. Lollysmum

    Petra & Nana
    I also had problems posting here 2-3 wks ago.Posts just disappearing into the ether yet others apart from Nana didn’t have a problem with their posts. Same day as Nana had to keep reposting.

    Never did find the reason but came back later in the day reposted again & they appeared quite quickly. I put it down to the site being very busy. Perhaps I need to look closer!

  314. GallusEffie

    Scotland can claim the motto of my kids’ high school.

    Libertatem per probitatem.

    “Freedom by Integrity”

    Part of the UK. *That* UK? No, more than ever.

  315. Nana


    I’ve been posting links on this site for a long time now and have had a few disappear before, but never so many on one day. Considering they were all linked to Syria, Isis funding etc I do find it rather suspicious.

    I use two computers and check each one for any glitches regularly and not seeing anything odd. However I’m no expert on these things but I do an ‘expert’ on standby. Will be asking for a computer check up later today.

  316. Petra

    @ Scot Finlayson says at 12:58 pm

    `The BBC are reporting the MOD statement that the RAF planes had advanced sensors that could tell whether or not civilians were present.`

    If they have the capability to differentiate between terrorists and civilians every airport, border, high street, etc would be equipped with these `advanced sensors`.

    As stated before the second in command of the whole BBC Sir Roger Martyn Carr is in charge of BAE Systems which sells the tools of war, the BBC telling the world how marvellous these weapons are helps sell them and increases the shares of BAE systems which is very good for Sir Roger Martyn Carr.

    On your first point Scot every Daesh fighter, and in particular it’s leaders, will be living amongst innocent families, in schools and hospitals. We all know that civilians are being / will continue to be killed but hey who’s going to tell us about that in the CorpMedia here? Additionally there may be few ‘neighbours’ left either to get the word out. A bit like the Jewish situation … people dying and no one knew that they were gone … had ever existed at all.

    As to Sir Roger Carr, BBC? Conflict of interests? And we are paying his wages! Have you noticed that Cameron has managed to place his ‘ain folk’ in key positions all over the Country? I’m sure that this happened in Scotland pre-Referendum too, where possible, such as Head of Council in Clackmannanshire … check her out .. her background .. who she was / is connected to.

  317. antmcg

    So, all of the following have decided to take us into war, again…

    Why can’t they just go and do the fighting, and leave our troops at home?

    The warmongers are:

    Adams, Nigel

    Afriyie, Adam

    Aldous, Peter

    Alexander, Heidi

    Allan, Lucy

    Allen, Heidi

    Amess, Sir David

    Andrew, Stuart

    Ansell, Caroline

    Argar, Edward

    Atkins, Victoria

    Austin, Ian

    Bacon, Mr Richard

    Bailey, Mr Adrian

    Baker, Mr Steve

    Baldwin, Harriett

    Barclay, Stephen

    Barron, rh Kevin

    Bebb, Guto

    Beckett, rh Margaret

    Bellingham, Mr Henry

    Benn, rh Hilary

    Benyon, Richard

    Beresford, Sir Paul

    Berry, Jake

    Berry, James

    Bingham, Andrew

    Blackman, Bob

    Blackwood, Nicola

    Blenkinsop, Tom

    Blunt, Crispin

    Boles, Nick

    Bone, Mr Peter

    Borwick, Victoria

    Bottomley, Sir Peter

    Bradley, Karen

    Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben

    Brady, Mr Graham

    Brake, rh Tom

    Brazier, Mr Julian

    Bridgen, Andrew

    Brine, Steve

    Brokenshire, rh James

    Bruce, Fiona

    Bryant, Chris

    Buckland, Robert

    Burns, Conor

    Burns, rh Sir Simon

    Burrowes, Mr David

    Burt, rh Alistair

    Cairns, Alun

    Cameron, rh Mr David

    Campbell, rh Mr Alan

    Campbell, Mr Gregory

    Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair

    Carmichael, Neil

    Carswell, Mr Douglas

    Cartlidge, James

    Cash, Sir William

    Caulfield, Maria

    Chalk, Alex

    Chapman, Jenny

    Chishti, Rehman

    Churchill, Jo

    Clark, rh Greg

    Clegg, rh Mr Nick

    Cleverly, James

    Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey

    Coaker, Vernon

    Coffey, Ann

    Coffey, Dr Thérèse

    Collins, Damian

    Colvile, Oliver

    Cooper, rh Yvette

    Costa, Alberto

    Cox, Mr Geoffrey

    Coyle, Neil

    Crabb, rh Stephen

    Creagh, Mary

    Crouch, Tracey

    David, Wayne

    Davies, Byron

    Davies, Chris

    Davies, David T. C.

    Davies, Glyn

    Davies, Dr James

    Davies, Mims

    Davies, Philip

    Dinenage, Caroline

    Djanogly, Mr Jonathan

    Dodds, rh Mr Nigel

    Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.

    Donelan, Michelle

    Dorries, Nadine

    Double, Steve

    Doughty, Stephen

    Dowd, Jim

    Dowden, Oliver

    Drax, Richard

    Drummond, Mrs Flick

    Duddridge, James

    Dugher, Michael

    Duncan, rh Sir Alan

    Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain

    Dunne, Mr Philip

    Eagle, Ms Angela

    Eagle, Maria

    Elliott, Tom

    Ellis, Michael

    Ellison, Jane

    Ellman, Mrs Louise

    Ellwood, Mr Tobias

    Elphicke, Charlie

    Eustice, George

    Evans, Graham

    Evans, Mr Nigel

    Evennett, rh Mr David

    Fabricant, Michael

    Fallon, rh Michael

    Farron, Tim

    Fernandes, Suella

    Field, rh Frank

    Field, rh Mark

    Fitzpatrick, Jim

    Flint, rh Caroline

    Foster, Kevin

    Fox, rh Dr Liam

    Francois, rh Mr Mark

    Frazer, Lucy

    Freeman, George

    Freer, Mike

    Fuller, Richard

    Fysh, Marcus

    Gale, Sir Roger

    Garnier, rh Sir Edward

    Garnier, Mark

    Gauke, Mr David

    Ghani, Nusrat

    Gibb, Mr Nick

    Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl

    Glen, John

    Goldsmith, Zac

    Goodwill, Mr Robert

    Gove, rh Michael

    Graham, Richard

    Grant, Mrs Helen

    Gray, Mr James

    Grayling, rh Chris

    Green, Chris

    Green, rh Damian

    Greening, rh Justine

    Grieve, rh Mr Dominic

    Griffiths, Andrew

    Gummer, Ben

    Gyimah, Mr Sam

    Halfon, rh Robert

    Hall, Luke

    Hammond, rh Mr Philip

    Hammond, Stephen

    Hancock, rh Matthew

    Hands, rh Greg

    Harman, rh Ms Harriet

    Harper, rh Mr Mark

    Harrington, Richard

    Harris, Rebecca

    Hart, Simon

    Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan

    Hayes, rh Mr John

    Heald, Sir Oliver

    Heappey, James

    Heaton-Harris, Chris

    Heaton-Jones, Peter

    Henderson, Gordon

    Herbert, rh Nick

    Hermon, Lady

    Hinds, Damian

    Hoare, Simon

    Hodge, rh Dame Margaret

    Hollingbery, George

    Hollinrake, Kevin

    Hopkins, Kris

    Howarth, rh Mr George

    Howarth, Sir Gerald

    Howell, John

    Howlett, Ben

    Huddleston, Nigel

    Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy

    Hunt, Tristram

    Hurd, Mr Nick

    Jackson, Mr Stewart

    James, Margot

    Jarvis, Dan

    Javid, rh Sajid

    Jayawardena, Mr Ranil

    Jenkin, Mr Bernard

    Jenkyns, Andrea

    Jenrick, Robert

    Johnson, rh Alan

    Johnson, Boris

    Johnson, Gareth

    Johnson, Joseph

    Jones, Andrew

    Jones, rh Mr David

    Jones, Graham

    Jones, Helen

    Jones, Mr Kevan

    Jones, Mr Marcus

    Jones, Susan Elan

    Kawczynski, Daniel

    Kendall, Liz

    Kennedy, Seema

    Kinahan, Danny

    Kirby, Simon

    Knight, rh Sir Greg

    Knight, Julian

    Kwarteng, Kwasi

    Kyle, Peter

    Lancaster, Mark

    Latham, Pauline

    Leadsom, Andrea

    Lee, Dr Phillip

    Lefroy, Jeremy

    Leslie, Charlotte

    Leslie, Chris

    Letwin, rh Mr Oliver

    Lewis, Brandon

    Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian

    Lidington, rh Mr David

    Lilley, rh Mr Peter

    Lopresti, Jack

    Lord, Jonathan

    Loughton, Tim

    Lumley, Karen

    Mackinlay, Craig

    Mackintosh, David

    Main, Mrs Anne

    Mak, Mr Alan

    Malthouse, Kit

    Mann, Scott

    Mathias, Dr Tania

    May, rh Mrs Theresa

    Maynard, Paul

    McCartney, Jason

    McCartney, Karl

    McDonagh, Siobhain

    McFadden, rh Mr Pat

    McGinn, Conor

    McGovern, Alison

    McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick

    Menzies, Mark

    Mercer, Johnny

    Merriman, Huw

    Metcalfe, Stephen

    Miller, rh Mrs Maria

    Milling, Amanda

    Mills, Nigel

    Milton, rh Anne

    Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew

    Mordaunt, Penny

    Morgan, rh Nicky

    Morris, Anne Marie

    Morris, David

    Morris, James

    Morton, Wendy

    Mowat, David

    Mulholland, Greg

    Mundell, rh David

    Murray, Mrs Sheryll

    Murrison, Dr Andrew

    Neill, Robert

    Newton, Sarah

    Nokes, Caroline

    Norman, Jesse

    Nuttall, Mr David

    Offord, Dr Matthew

    Opperman, Guy

    Osborne, rh Mr George

    Paisley, Ian

    Parish, Neil

    Patel, rh Priti

    Paterson, rh Mr Owen

    Pawsey, Mark

    Penning, rh Mike

    Penrose, John

    Percy, Andrew

    Perry, Claire

    Phillips, Stephen

    Phillipson, Bridget

    Philp, Chris

    Pickles, rh Sir Eric

    Pincher, Christopher

    Poulter, Dr Daniel

    Pow, Rebecca

    Prentis, Victoria

    Prisk, Mr Mark

    Pritchard, Mark

    Pugh, John

    Pursglove, Tom

    Quin, Jeremy

    Quince, Will

    Raab, Mr Dominic

    Redwood, rh John

    Reed, Mr Jamie

    Reed, Mr Steve

    Rees-Mogg, Mr Jacob

    Reynolds, Emma

    Robertson, Mr Laurence

    Robinson, Gavin

    Robinson, Mary

    Rosindell, Andrew

    Rudd, rh Amber

    Rutley, David

    Ryan, rh Joan

    Sandbach, Antoinette

    Scully, Paul

    Selous, Andrew

    Shannon, Jim

    Shapps, rh Grant

    Sharma, Alok

    Shelbrooke, Alec

    Simpson, David

    Simpson, rh Mr Keith

    Skidmore, Chris

    Smeeth, Ruth

    Smith, Angela

    Smith, Chloe

    Smith, Henry

    Smith, Julian

    Smith, Royston

    Soames, rh Sir Nicholas

    Solloway, Amanda

    Soubry, rh Anna

    Spellar, rh Mr John

    Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline

    Spencer, Mark

    Stephenson, Andrew

    Stevenson, John

    Stewart, Bob

    Stewart, Iain

    Stewart, Rory

    Streeter, Mr Gary

    Stride, Mel

    Stuart, rh Ms Gisela

    Stuart, Graham

    Sturdy, Julian

    Sunak, Rishi

    Swayne, rh Mr Desmond

    Swire, rh Mr Hugo

    Syms, Mr Robert

    Thomas, Derek

    Thomas, Mr Gareth

    Throup, Maggie

    Timpson, Edward

    Tolhurst, Kelly

    Tomlinson, Justin

    Tomlinson, Michael

    Tracey, Craig

    Tredinnick, David

    Trevelyan, Mrs Anne-Marie

    Truss, rh Elizabeth

    Tugendhat, Tom

    Turley, Anna

    Umunna, Mr Chuka

    Vaizey, Mr Edward

    Vara, Mr Shailesh

    Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa

    Walker, Mr Charles

    Walker, Mr Robin

    Wallace, Mr Ben

    Warburton, David

    Warman, Matt

    Watkinson, Dame Angela

    Wharton, James

    Whately, Helen

    Wheeler, Heather

    White, Chris

    Whittaker, Craig

    Whittingdale, rh Mr John

    Wiggin, Bill

    Williams, Craig

    Williamson, rh Gavin

    Wilson, Phil

    Wilson, Mr Rob

    Wilson, Sammy

    Wollaston, Dr Sarah

    Wood, Mike

    Woodcock, John

    Wragg, William

    Wright, rh Jeremy

    Zahawi, Nadhim

  318. Rev. Stuart Campbell

    “Posted more links which have not appeared. Don’t know what glitches may be causing it. Anyhow trying these.”

    It’s not a glitch. As I’ve said about a thousand times, any post with lots of links in it gets automatically put in the moderation queue by WordPress, because it thinks it might be spam. That means I have to approve it manually, which means that when I have time I have to wade through the entire mod queue to make sure I don’t accidentally approve four identical posts saying “I tried to post these earlier but they haven’t appeared”, scattered amongst anything else that might be in there.

  319. Nana

    @Rev Stu

    As I said in an earlier post “I understand Rev has to approve”

    In the past I have posted links which did not show and other wingers seem to having similar problems.

    Anyhow perhaps I should just post 2 or three links at a time, would that be better?

  320. David McDowell

    mike cassidy at 12:24pm

    “What kind of Harry Potter fantasy bullshit is this?”

    The same kind of Harry Potter fantasy bullshit they feed you on every other topic.

  321. Petra

    @ Barbara McKenzie says at 2:56 am ”He (George Galloway) has been one of the very few politicians who hasn’t bought into the Butcher of Damascus line (being a continuation of the Joan of Arc was a witch, Napoleon ate babies, Ares Velouchiotis was a sadist, Arthur Scargill was corrupt, Jeremy Corbyn is the new Hitler version of history, ie the mendacious denigration of anyone who gets in the way of the British establishment).”

    Thanks for the insightful post and video Barbara. I agree that this is one of the dictatorships greatest weapons and they have been using it for centuries now …. ramped up at crucial times like this. Distort your history; the truth with regard to situations, countries, individuals and in particular demonise people with the key aim of brainwashing you and I into accepting, even positively supporting, their actions.

    For example (another to add to the list) some people considered Mummar Gaddafi to be a hero, others a demon. We of course were fed in the West with the 100% demon version …. Libya had alotta, lotta oil (just like Syria).

    One issue that we were never informed of was that one of Gaddafi’s main goals in life was to influence and expand communications not only for his own country, but the continent of Africa as a whole.

    At the end of the 20th century, communications to and from Africa with the rest of the world cost a fortune ($500 million being paid in annual leasing fees at that time) since foreign satellites had to be utilized for any kind of intercontinental telecommunication.

    Knowing that the fees would become more and more expensive forty five African nations got together and formed RASCOM (Regional African Satellite Communication Organization) in 1992.

    RASCOM’s goal was to pool together African collateral along with borrowing from The World Bank and The IMF to purchase and install an African satellite. Fourteen years went by with the international banks dragging their feet. Their actions indicated to RASCOM that the Western powers didn’t want to relinquish their extortionately high priced satellite leasing fees.

    Gaddafi then decided to deal with the situation himself by providing $300 million of the $500 million required. The rest was borrowed, with help from Gaddafi, from two African banks. This meant that the Africans now had total control over their communications.

    By 2007 the entire continent of Africa received its first (African owned) communications satellite. Gaddafi died in 2011. So as we in the West applauded and cheered the death of Gaddafi millions in Africa shed tears whilst others vowed to avenge his death …. thousands of them decided to form / join Daesh.

  322. Johnny

    I see some on social media trying to claim that the Tories were not ‘cheering bombs’ but ‘a well-crafted speech’.

    Doesn’t wash, sorry. It was a speech in favour of the motion, and in favour of using bombs. Therefore, cheering it amounted to expressing approval for using bombs.

  323. rog_rocks

    O/T As for JK Rowling, it seems to me that she suffers from plagiarism…

    “While some of the films’ themes might seem familiar, Troll‘s owner decided not to sue J. K. Rowling or Warner Bros… because of a family tragedy at the time. They just put it on the back burner… and delayed matters until now.

    “There is no problem with doing a remake of Troll because you can remake your own stuff. Everybody knows it was our material. We made the movie years before Rowling came out with her book.”

    The original film worth a watch in my view, very amusing 🙂

  324. Will Podmore

    As the UN Security Council stated on 24 September, counter-terrorism measures that fail to comply with the Charter may contribute to increased radicalisation.
    Bombing would impede, not accelerate, a negotiated settlement, as the House of Commons Defence Committee pointed out. The ground troops that would take territory evacuated by ISIS would be al-Nusra and al-Sham terrorists. There would be no military co-ordination or strategy. And the war will be prolonged, worsening the refugee crisis. Nobody (except Russia) will stop NATO member Turkey arming and supplying ISIS.
    Given that recent attacks in Britain were sourced from Walthamstow not Raqqa, will Parliament be voting to bomb Walthamstow? The whole thing is a charade – Cameron is trying – again – to get authorisation to aid the USA in its long-term aim of destroying Syria’s secular government.

  325. CameronB Brodie

    Possibly more significant as a reason for Gaddafi’s ousting, IMO, was he was about to launch a pan-African currency backed by gold. The dollar would have tanked. A bit like Saddam, who was threatening to sell Iraqi oil in exchange for Euro.

  326. bugsbunny


    Very interesting. And how apt that this remake is to be called The Troll, The Rise of Harry Potter. Hasn’t J.K. both goaded and trolled many Indie Supporters over the last few years? Add J.R.R. Tolkien’s the Lord of the Rings Trilogy into the mess and we see her Royal Better Togetherness for what she is. Wonder if I can make a cool Billion by rewriting Little Red Riding Hood? What about making cape blue? Sorted. So that’s my money worries over by becoming a plagiarizing rip off merchant. Keerching.

    However I will give my spare millions to the next YES campaign.

    Horse faced cow.


  327. Fred

    Never thought I’d see the day I agreed with Will Podmore 🙂

    A battered Corbyn goes down pulling toga over face, “Et tu Brute!”

  328. Petra

    @ CameronB Brodie says at 3:15 pm ”Petra possibly more significant as a reason for Gaddafi’s ousting, IMO, was he was about to launch a pan-African currency backed by gold. The dollar would have tanked. A bit like Saddam, who was threatening to sell Iraqi oil in exchange for Euro.”

    In this case Cameron I was pointing out that the man was not all ‘bbaad’ and many of his more benefic gestures never got / get a mention in the West.

    But you’re right the US et al had any number of reasons for wanting rid of him. Strange that neither he nor Saddam were brought to trial but rather murdered. I just wonder if Assad is going to face the same fate?

  329. Petra

    @ Nana says at 1:51 pm ”Anyhow perhaps I should just post 2 or three links at a time, would that be better?”

    Whatever the case Nana keep on posting. I look out for your links because they are ‘factual’. And if I’m really short of time, and can’t read all posts, skim through actually searching for yours.

  330. farnorthdavie

    I wonder how much clapping and cheering will be seen and heard when the first British airman is killed in action and what Cameron, Benn, will say about it.

    Then when the first British airman who is captured alive is shown being beheaded I sincerely hope that Cameron’s smooth smug mug with its sad wee look is screamed and pointed at and the applause and cheers of last night come back to haunt him.

    What stance will the media take at each of the above given their current complicitness?

  331. Tom Platt

    Hilary Benn’s miserable effort in the debate is put into a proper perspective by another very informative Craig Murray article…to be found, of course, on Craig’s web site. It is well worth reading IMO.

  332. Barbara McKenzie

    I agree with Kenny(3 December, 2015 at 12:32 pm) that Benn’s speech was ‘toe-curlingly, embarrassingly awful’.

    I was unimpressed by Tony Blair’s cheap theatricality in 2003, and equally so by Hillary Benn’s of 2015. Content-wise he veered between irrelevancy and dishonesty, with the low point being the outrageous claim that the motivation for bombing Syria was somehow comparable with that of people who joined the International Brigades in Spain.

    heedtracker 3 December, 2015 at 9:21 am gave the link to the full text of Benn’s speech.

    Alex Salmond made a good point in his impressive LBC interview that Benn was facing an adoring Tory multitude, whereas Corbyn was barracked as soon as he got up. The media has made a big deal of him being applauded on both sides of the House – well, of course he was. (I have already said elsewhere that you know you’ve made it as a Labour politician when you get a standing ovation from the Tories.) The full interview is the 2nd screen 2/3rds down.

    Petra (3 December, 2015 at 2:28 pm)

    Thanks for that angle on Libya Petra (and also Cameron). I am woefully ignorant on the recent war/regime change. But I was always a bit of fan of Gaddafi until he started greasing up to Tony Blair.

  333. Barbara McKenzie

    I reckon that this is a good time for SNP to make noises about independence, if not for Scotland’s sake, then for the sake of the rest of the world.

  334. IAB

    I can’t believe this – ALL of these warmongers will have blood on their hands

  335. Andrew McLean

    donnywho says: 3 December, 2015 at 12:48 pm

    Ps they also will not explode in the presence of children unless they are going to become terrorists. So there will be no collateral damage and therefore it will not be report

    Actually you are correct, Colonel Bob Stuart MP, has said the UK was “very accurate” in its bombing. And I quote him regarding collateral damage “People say the people in the house may be innocent, I say actually our targeting is pretty good too and the people in that house will be something to do with Daesh and if they are something to do with Daesh they support the killing of our people so they are not innocent.”

    So when you see those dead toddlers and pensioners just remember they probably were terrorists anyway so that’s all right then.

    I wish I could say something but words fail me.

    Bob you are a wanker! that will do for now.

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