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Wings Over Scotland

Behold the messiah

Posted on December 13, 2013 by

We’ve been having a dig through the recent YouGov poll (fieldwork 26-29 November) commissioned by The Sun. It’s full of all manner of interesting data, strengthened by a rather bigger-than-usual sample of 1,919 voters.

We were intrigued to note, for example, that 56% of respondents in England and Wales disapproved of the government’s record (with just 30% in favour), but 55% of those same people thought Scotland should vote to stay in the Union they themselves were so unsatisfied with (just 21% said they’d vote Yes if they had a vote).


Now, it’s possible to explain some of this apparent contradiction away. For example, fully 90% of UK Labour voters disapproved of the UK government, but 60% still wanted Scotland to vote No and remain subject to it. The rationalisation, of course, is that they think everything would be fine under a Labour UK government.

Don’t they?

Because that Labour government would of course be headed by Ed Miliband. And this, according to the poll, is what Labour voters think of Ed Miliband:

In touch with the concerns of ordinary people: 57% Honest: 39% Sticks to what he believes in: 36% Decisive: 16% Strong: 13% Charismatic: 10% Good in a crisis: 13% A natural leader: 10%

None of these: 18%

Wow. The leader Labour voters want Scots to put their faith in as the great saviour of everything that’s wrong with Britain is considered to be “honest” by barely over a third of his own supporters. A frightening 87% feel themselves unable to express confidence in their man’s ability to handle a crisis (and goodness knows, if we’re not in a crisis now we can’t imagine what counts as one).

Scarcely a third think Miliband is a man of principle. Just one in six think this would-be Prime Minister capable of acting decisively, and even fewer are prepared to credit him with possessing strength. Almost a fifth, meanwhile, attribute NONE of the listed positive qualities to poor Ed. (Almost twice as many as consider him a natural leader.)

And yet this weak, indecisive, dishonest man – by the account of Labour voters, remember, not us – is the alternative Labour present to an independent Scotland. His own supporters have no trust in him whatsoever, yet they demand that Scots put themselves in his hands (in the highly-doubtful scenario that he could actually win an election in the first place) and just hope for a miracle.

Labour voters’ ratings of David Cameron, unsurprisingly, are lower still – single figures in every category except “none of these”. So the proposition they offer Scots is “Vote No and have either a useless wimp for Prime Minister, or an actively evil one”.

How much longer until the penny drops?

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63 to “Behold the messiah”

  1. Holebender says:

    He’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!

  2. Douglas says:

    YouGov are fairly awful in predictions but you have to laugh at how they come to their conclusions and interpretations.  Political opinion is judged by your newspaper of choice, they always reduce the weight of the SNP identified voter and to cap it all in the summary Scotland is a region and England is a country.  Goodness knows what they think of the Welsh as England and Wales is a country as well.

  3. Les Wilson says:

    “How much longer until the penny drops”

    Soon I hope !

  4. Power hungry if you can shaft your brother, what would you do to someone else. He shot himself in the foot with that move. 

  5. msean says:

    Trying to remember how much you have to be in front as the opposition 18 months or so from a general election,think it was about 12 to 18 pionts or something.Whatever it is,it seems labour don’t have enough to win either Holyrood OR westminster general elections.Vote YES or buckle in for another 5 years minimum of tory/yellow tory rule,(of course,we can’t rule out a ‘buckle in’ tax.Can’t rule it out you know,we would have laughed at the idea of a bedroom tax a decade ago..)

  6. gillie says:

    More Dim Dong-un than the Messiah

  7. balgayboy says:

    Cameron could not have asked for an easier ride with this excuse for opposition….thinking that this was jointly planned by the “the same cheeks of the same arse party’s”

  8. David Martin says:

    Is it just me, or does anyone else think Ed bears a startling resemblance to Gromit’s friend Wallace?

  9. Lissa says:

    The obvious unspoken thought is, ‘but he’s still better than anything those stupid Jocks could do for themselves.’ Or maybe I’ve just gotten really really cynical…

  10. RedStarTrout says:

    More Dim Dong-un than the Messiah
    More like ‘Him Wrong Bro‘ I think.

  11. Murray McCallum says:

    I don’t mind Ed Milliband as a political leader. I actually quite like him as a person. I don’t buy into the strong leader stuff.
    However, the Honest: 39% and Sticks to what he believes in: 36% from his own supporters is pretty shocking. Taking these two stats together it seems that Ed is perceived pretty much as Tony Blair Mk II, i.e. will say anything to get elected.

  12. handclapping says:

    Even on a tiny Scottish sample of 167 the stand out result for me was that only 2% won’t vote in the referendum. It looks as if people are starting to appreciate how important the referendum is. Next step is wanting information on what’s it all about. We need to be ready for that.

  13. scottish_skier says:

    Whatever it is,it seems labour don’t have enough to win either Holyrood OR westminster general elections
    Labour have a 5 point lead. Chances of winning in 2015? Slim to none.

  14. david says:

    ed milliband was bought by unite the union to usurp his brothers ambitions which would serve both ed and unites purposes. a career politition with little morals must surely be a negatvie choice. 

  15. Hewitt83 says:

    I don’t care if the penny ever drops for those living in England and Wales.
    It’s the people that live here I’m more concerned about.

  16. Jingly Jangly says:

    o/t and apologies so soon,
    However Manx News is leading on the fact that 4 Icelandic bankers have been jailed for fraud in relation to bank shares being sold  prior to the banks collapse during the financial crisis. Not one peep on the BBC Tv lunchtime news that I have just watched in a neighbours due to having cancelled my licence as a protest.

    I wonder why, surely there are parallels with the UK Banking crisis. Therefore it would be in the public interest to see how other countries are dealing with corrupt bankers!!!!

  17. Les Wilson says:

    I agree charity begins at home.

  18. Illy says:

    Ever since their revolution, Iceland has been under a media blackout.
    Probably because someone doesn’t want the same to happen here!

  19. Brian Powell says:

    Should there be a No vote the Conservative party machine and press will start on Labour in Scotland.
    The Tory voters who are supporting Labour won’t be doing it post 2014. The LibDem voters have nowhere to go as the Labour Party will oppose them, so they could go to the Conservatives.  They seem to be happy their Party is supporting the Conservatives at the moment.
    So many voters in Scotland won’t be voting tactically as they did before. I won’t for one.
    The Conservative Government will find money before the next GE.
    So I wonder what should Labour voters in Scotland do? Judging by their thinking so far they are still in the ‘Let’s jump of this cliff and see if the result could be different from the last time’, frame of mind.

  20. Taranaich says:

    His own supporters have no trust in him whatsoever, yet they demand that Scots put themselves in his hands (in the highly-doubtful scenario that he could actually win an election in the first place) and just hope for a miracle.
    Or perhaps there’s a sinister element of “why should you get to escape instead of suffer with us?” After all, not only are we apparently “subsidised” by Westminster, but we have an opportunity to reject Westminster which is not afforded to them – so after years of receiving such “generosity”, we can selfishly get out before austerity ruins our good fortune. And so many Scots buy into this false solidarity with the people of England, without realising how twisted it is.
    My heart goes out to the rest of the UK: what choice do they have? Who in the UK could possibly offer an alternative to the Neo-Liberal triumverate? The only “alternative” is UKIP, which is hardly an alternative at all. We’ve been blessed with the SNP/Greens/SSP and a series of brilliant strokes leading to the referendum. England’s stuck with Westminster, and the only attempts to bring a proper English Left to the table are either too small to take on the Byzantine labyrinth of Westminster politics, or are hopelessly deluded into thinking Labour is actually still socialist.
    Seriously, all those “what about English independence from UK” folk: don’t you think if it was possible this would’ve been a pretty big movement by this point? NI, Wales and Scotland have their independence movements, have done for decades. The English political system practically does not allow for this sort of revolution, especially with the House of Lords.

  21. GP Walrus says:

    Add a bushy wig, replace the pen top with a feather duster and you have Ken Dodd. He already has the cohort of Diddy Men.

  22. HandandShrimp says:

    Even if Labour win in 2015 what will they change? Scrap the bedroom tax? How many will still be in their houses by then? Balls said Labour would tackle the Welfare budget and also cut it by billions.

  23. Murray McCallum says:

    Maybe Ed should get some of President Putin’s PR people on the payroll. Bare chested Ed on a four legged mammal in Primrose Hill park. It’s a lot cheaper than going to the Arctic to hug a hoodie or whatever.

  24. Macsen says:

    But the point is, they see the referendum as one as a constituional one – that is, they believe in the British state the same as you or I would believe in a Scottish (or Welsh) state. If you believe in that state you accept that there are times when the government in power wouldn’t be the same as yours.

    I’d prefer to live in an independent Wales which could have a Conservative government. I’m not a Conservative but I believe in Welsh independence. It’s the same for the British nationalist.

  25. braco says:

    Don’t you just hate it when you walk into one of those new fangled clear Glass doors!

  26. wullie says:

    @ jingly jangly says
    It would appear that the Vietnamese have the answer to corrupt bankers, I understand that they have executed a couple.

  27. Chic McGregor says:

    “Power hungry if you can shaft your brother, what would you do to someone else. He shot himself in the foot with that move. “

    If 1 BAND stood for the base unit on a Brotherly Admiration Numerical Designation scale, how ironic would ‘Miliband’ be?
    Of course, we could be misreading things and in actuality he is being a ‘stalking horse’ for his brother David.  ‘Mr Ed’?

  28. Chic McGregor says:

    “He’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!” 🙂
    The Naughtie Boy isn’t the Messiah either, yet, but give him time and he’ll have a
    Handel on it.
    Sorry about these dreadful puns, but ‘better out than in’ as they say.

  29. handclapping says:

    The rUK General Election after a Yes vote will be a humdinger. In the blue corner the man that lost Scotland, in the red the Wizard of Ed whose mighty Scotch machine couldn’t even deliver a No vote exposed as a fraud by Nicola and her ruby slippers.
    I might even buy a licence so I can watch. More popcorn please 🙂

  30. Tamson says:

    @David Martin:
    Check out his ‘selfie’ with Lily Allen in the Independent – you can almost see the bits of Wensledale between his teeth…

  31. bald eagle says:

    archie (not erchie)
    psst archie look at the wee box thingy
    have ever you tried to slam a revolving door

  32. Oneironaut says:

    If Scotland does gain independence, I really hope Wales and Ireland decide to campaign for their own.
    I’ll be happily cheering them on if so.  🙂
    By the way, does anyone around here know if there’s an active Yes Scotland campaign group in the Stevenston/Saltcoats area?
    Hoped to volunteer my services, but they’re proving remarkably difficult to track down…

  33. Brian Powell says:

    Looking at the twitter exchanges on this newsblog I’m not sure if it is sheer mind boggling ignorance from the Labour activists concerning what powers Scotland holds and controls through Devolution, or deliberately peddling misinformation.
    Which ever it is extremely dangerous for the constitutional debate that the voters are not being informed about the fragile limits of the powers Holyrood holds.
    Again when politicians don’t know or withhold information, a functional democracy could have some reliance in the newspapers to inform, not here.
    Naturally not a word about the Catalonia Referendum date. Though if Lamont/Davidson bring the Spanish PM stuff again it would be a good opportunity for the First Minster to mention it.

  34. Chic McGregor says:

    “My heart goes out to the rest of the UK: what choice do they have? ”
    When Osborne’s cynical pre-referendum/Election mini-property-bubble fake recovery evaporates, as it must,  I think the odds are on a revolution in England. 
    Hopefully, we won’t be part of it and can stay out of it by then, if it comes to pass.

  35. bald eagle says:

    been up all night that should have read
    have you tried slamming a revolving door

  36. Chic McGregor says:

    That picture looks like he is in the midst of a Westminster version of the Russian roulette scene from ‘The Deer Hunter’.  
    But where they pass a pen to one another to sign ever more outlandish promises until the public’s credibility goes bang!

  37. desimond says:

    Labour man untrustworthy….hmmm you sure?

    Blair reneges on Brown

    Milliband reneges on Milliband

    Alexander reneges on Alexander

    Healy admits Oil Cover Up

    Curran denies knowing who Healy even was!

    Falkirk…less said the better there

    Glasgow District Council…oh dear!

    Its almost Party policy, at least Ed Balls and his wife came to an agreement regards standing for office!

  38. Indy_Scot says:

    The English mentality is probably along the lines of, yeah things are crap, but as long as it is more crap for the Scots, then it’s not so bad.

  39. Jimmuckmc says:

    I agree with chick macgregor 
    that England will implode let’s hope that it’s after 18 sept next
    i just don’t see a left of center party surviving with the press that
    they have at the moment
    no wings over England 

  40. theycan'tbeserious says:

    Taranaich :
    England, ok middle England, generally get what they vote for, therefore no one else to blame but themselves! Unfortunately their choices are all too similar…right of right and moving further right!
    Can see the border moving south?

  41. bald eagle says:

    no wings over england
    no but wastemonster can go and take a flying F&%k

  42. Alan Mackintosh says:

    @ bald eagle
    Only Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door…

  43. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Although now that i recall, Nicola did manage to do it to carmichael

  44. Andy-B says:

    Speaking of Labour, and their Westminster Scottish politician counterparts, which includes Lib/Dem and Tory, of all 59 Scottish MP’s asked about taking the 11% pay rise, only 33 had the decency to reply, as to whether they would be accepting the rise or not, the SNP answered in a block group of MP’s with a resounding no to the rise. 
    Whilst we’re on the matter of Westminster, its been revealed that Energy Secretary Ed Davey, didn’t even bother to ask the big 6 energy firms to try and keep their prices down.
    Davey’s glaring omission was revealed in a written answer to Labours Derek Twigg, even the Tory Energy Minister  Michael Fallon, said he (Ed Davey) had not held any meetings with the big 6 energy firms, asking them to freeze or lower prices.
    No wonder energy firms feel they have a freehand to raise prices when they see fit to do so.

  45. Illy says:

    On moving the border, it’s been joked about here before, mostly by folks from northern England.
    I’m all up for it.  (And it would probably get us that last 1% of oil revenues as well ;p)
    Of course, I never thought it was going to happen.  Then there was that poll from Galatia asking to join the rUK.  I would think an Independant Scotland would welcome the north of England with open arms.  I’m not so sure the rUK would do that for Galatia.

  46. bald eagle says:

    heads up all
    the next time the leccy guys come out  make sure they just read the meter 
    these new meters can be boosted to up the numbers
    so if they are due take a note of the reading
    caught the c%^&t trying to up my reading dont let them put any reader next to your meter you can refuse this and ask them to take a note of the numbers 
    if they persist get a neighbour to witness him /her doing this DO NOT leave them alone close the cupboard door and ask them to leave until you can get a witness 
    then check the numbers before they leave

  47. Caroline Corfield says:

    wrt ‘the English’, I had my in-laws at my house last week-end, both once members of the Conservative Social Club, an ex-teacher and an ex-policeman, both very conservative with a small c and with a big C.

    There was a thawing in their attitude to the reasons for me supporting Scottish independence (possibly linked to Times articles about Scottish contributions to the UK debt) and a statement from the father-in-law that everything is done to benefit London and the ‘north’ loses out. I even managed to clarify for the mother-in-law that the BT mob are suggesting iScotland would ‘have to’ join the Euro, and wouldn’t be ‘allowed’ to keep Sterling, she had it somewhat mixed up and told me the Scots wouldn’t be allowed to have the Euro. I pointed out the previous empire colonies who kept Sterling after independence and how long it took Greenland to leave and that a unified Germany didn’t have to rejoin the Eu. Seemed to make them think. 

    There is a lot being said that cannot be shoved back into the bottle, to mix my metaphors, the English are hearing more and more of it as the national papers play out their propaganda war against Scottish Independence, some of those things apply to regional bits of England too and they can see it. Once there is a Yes vote, much more will come out in the bath water [sorry 🙂 ] during negotiations and secrets that have been kept from the UK population as a whole will not be secrets anymore.

    I don’t think it’s going to be revolution like the rest of the world thinks of revolution, but I do hope that things will have to change here through sheer, old-fashion embarrassment at having ‘let themselves go’ so badly.

  48. Chic McGregor says:

    “Only Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door…”
    Remember Smeato.
    Just let him try it at Glesca Airport.

  49. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ bald eagle – Awesome and well done

  50. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

    Yes Saltcoats – CONTACT
    James Dippie · · 01294 832098
    (NOTE: This is the publicly available contact details on Yes Scotland Website)

    ^^^This Guy^^^

  51. Doonfooter says:

    Oneironaut – Ian Brotherhood who regularly posts on Wings is active with both the Yes campaign and the SSP in that area. I’m sure if he sees you post he can confirm contact details in addition to those already posted above. There is YouTube footage of their street work and interviews from the demo outside the recent Stevenston Better Together meeting.

  52. Teri says:

    I take all You Gov polls with a large pinch of salt. I say this because I take part in these polls and quite regularly get thrown off them before they are 100% complete.  I did take part in a politics poll in the past 2 weeks and I think it may be this one.  I was put off having only completed 26% of the poll.  I believe it may well be that my answers did not fit in with what they were looking for. 
    However, they cannot be accused of fixing the results as I am sure what the poll shows is the answers given by all who were allowed to complete it.  By removing people when they have only done a percentage of the poll they don’t show up in the final results.   I would say that the polls are skewed to suit the answers they want.
    I also take part in Panelbase polls and have never been put off a poll part way through it. I have been screened out at the beginning if they already have enough people of the same age, sex and from the same part of the country before the poll begins.  This is different and is to ensure a truly representative sample.
    I wouldn’t waste time or effort examining polls conducted by You Gov.

  53. Oh. English voters. I’ve never properly gotten over the shell-shock from when they re-elected John Major.

  54. G H Graham says:

    The explanations is simple if shallow.
    He’s ugly.
    Wrong though it may be, people select other people for all sorts of roles based upon looks no matter how hard they try to put in place alternative, quantifiable justifications instead.
    Yes, I know, Thatcher was hardly a looker & Gordon Brown wears a face like a wet weekend but neither of them were ever actually plain ugly.

  55. The Rough Bounds says:

    Wonder why the English don’t want Scotland to leave?
    Misery loves company!

  56. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Doonfooter –
    Well, technically, I’m just SSP, haven’t done anything for the Yes campaign as such, but hey, ‘we’re all in this together’ eh?!
    @Oneironaut –
    Methinks Aidan is the man you need – the dude wearing the yellow gear who’s in the ‘Saltcoats’ part of the Clan Destiny video. If he isn’t the main man for the official Yes campaign hereabouts then he’ll certainly know who is.

  57. Churm Rincewind says:

    “…fully 90% of UK Labour voters disapproved of the UK government, but 60% still wanted Scotland to vote No and remain subject to it. The rationalisation, of course, is that they think everything would be fine under a Labour UK government.”
    I don’t get the argument.  It’s perfectly possible for Labour voters to dissaprove of the current UK Government, and indeed the current UK Labour opposition, while still opposing Scottish Independence. 
    Am I missing something?   

  58. Hetty says:

    My cousin was here from Gateshead the other day, a brief visit so we didn’t talk at length, but she says that it is all completely negative in the media there about Scottish Independence, nothing new there, she and partner support Independence, they know how much worse it will get under the conservatives. On another note, my friends in NE England support Labour, they have no alternative and know it is between the devil and the deep blue sea. I can see they find it hard when I talk about the SNP and its because they do not have the choice other than to vote Labour as they always have, its called hope. Thing is Labour no longer even aspire to hope. I do feel sad because the NE of England has been shafted, for a very long time, between a rock and a hard place, if everyone there voted Labour, the tories would still get into westminster, and I suspect many there gave up voting some time back, too downtrodden. 

  59. X_Sticks says:

    Hetty says:
    “I do feel sad because the NE of England has been shafted, for a very long time, between a rock and a hard place, if everyone there voted Labour, the tories would still get into westminster, and I suspect many there gave up voting some time back, too downtrodden.”
    I agree Hetty. I think many of us feel an empathy with the north of England. I hope that a successful independent Scotland will be as good for the north of England and Wales as for Scotland. I can only imagine how they feel when confronted with what amounts to no choice whatsoever. It’s either the westminster preservation party, the westminster preservation party, the westminster preservation party  or the british westminster preservation party. How democratic is  that?
    Breaking the power of westminster will ultimately be good for the whole UK. 

  60. Alastair Naughton says:

    Excellent analysis! Thanks for this 😉

  61. Theunicorn says:

    “he’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy”
    Blessed are the big nose….and the Greeks will inherit the earth…..Superb ! 
    I’m away to watch the movie again as I haven’t seen it for ages and very appropriate for this time of year. Maybe we should have Cameron, Milliband and Clegg as the wise men and Eck as Brian…

  62. Keith Hynd says:

    I am very afraid of the outcome of the next Westminster election, the reason being that Cameron (in my view) won’t get in. It will be a hung parliament again and good old Nick will jump buses, “for the good of the nation of course” aye rite. He will support labour as he knows he needs to try and get some cred back, it won’t work of course, Ed will do the same to him as he did with the unions namely “get me in and then I’ll stab you in the back” With that in mind what scares me is, a winning no vote in the referendum, as Margaret Curran will immediately be Scottish Secretary and she will devolve powers from Holyrood to local goverment where Labors power base is, this will be done to destroy the SNP government and not for the people of Scotland.

  63. Oneironaut says:

    @Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)
    Thanks for that 🙂
    Can’t get on Facebook though, so was hoping there was a way to contact them outside of it. Seems a little silly that some groups seem to restrict themselves to Facebook these days…
    (Sorry it took me a while to reply.  My connection is a bit “random” these days!)
    Yep, I was at that meeting.  I’m a bit camera shy though 😉  hehe.
    @Ian Brotherhood
    Yeah, I was hoping to get back in touch with Aidan, since he’s something of a familiar face to me.  I don’t have any contact details for him though, and I never seem to be lucky enough to just bump into him around town either…
    Oh well, I’ll keep an eye open anyway 🙂  Thanks.

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