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Behind the mask

Posted on November 11, 2014 by

On last night’s Scotland Tonight, prospective Scottish Labour deputy “leader” Katy Clark MP told the nation that “it could be Scotland that lets us down”.

It wasn’t a slip of the tongue. By “us” she meant the Labour Party, and she went on to elaborate, telling the old Labour story about how UK general elections are about an Old Firm-style showdown betweeen two parties and how it was in essence the duty of Scots to vote Labour to keep the Tories out at Westminster, seemingly unaware that just as with the Old Firm, most people despise both of them pretty much equally.

(And conveniently overlooking the fact that Scots voted overwhelmingly Labour in 2010 and got the Tories anyway, as Labour obstinately refused to consider a “rainbow coalition” because they hated the SNP too much. What Scots learned that year was that Labour would rather let Tories rule Scotland than be civil to left-wing nationalists.)

The comments followed just a couple of days after Holyrood Magazine editor Mandy Rhodes had penned an article about the Scottish branch’s current woes that had a very telling first paragraph.

“After Labour’s shock defeat in 2007, Margaret Curran and Sarah Boyack asked me to meet them for a coffee to pick over the whys and wherefores of why they’d lost and what to do. I spent much of that conversation being chastised for how critical I had been of the party and not what they could do to kickstart change.”

(Our emphasis.) It would be hard to sum up Scottish Labour’s attitude better.

Katy Clark is actually one of the less wretched of her party’s current Scottish elected representatives, but after a few minutes of saying all the right things about listening and learning and changing, she couldn’t hold it in any longer. Just like Margaret Curran and Sarah Boyack in 2007, and indeed every senior politician in Scottish Labour ever since, she sat down asking “What did we do wrong?” but within seconds was angrily lashing out and blaming everyone else instead.

Readers could be forgiven for concluding that in those seven long years out of power in Scotland – which currently look like becoming at least 13 – the party hasn’t learned a thing. Rather than admitting its own manifold failings, time and again it retreats to a sour, bitter resentment of the electorate (alongside its undying tribal hatred of the SNP), and a petulant demand that voters return what Scottish Labour regards as its birthright – unquestioned, unchallenged control of Scotland.

Labour’s unquenchable sense of entitlement in Scotland is a plague, not only on the party but on the entire country, because it destroys any chance of the strong, effective opposition any government needs. And sometimes the only thing you can do with a plague is to burn it out and start again from the ashes.

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    1. 11 11 14 12:01

      Behind the mask | FreeScotland

    2. 11 11 14 12:42

      Behind the mask - Speymouth

    3. 11 11 14 20:08

      Exclusive: The sinister betrayal of Labour by the people of Scotland – North British Post | Scottish Pokemon – What do you believe in?

    4. 17 03 15 23:45

      The Devo Files: Katy Clark (North Ayrshire & Arran) | A Wilderness of Peace

    344 to “Behind the mask”

    1. Seasick Dave says:

      Its always about them.

    2. Katy is, as you say, one of the less ridiculous ones, but as I said in a previous article of mine each and every one of these people, from the likes of Katy and Neil Findlay right across the spectrum to Jim Murphy, were on the stump during the referendum telling lies and spreading fear.

      To Hell with every single pathetic one of them.

      (By the way, did you get the emails I sent you last week?)

    3. Dan Huil says:

      “Scottish” Labour politicians make me sick. Red Tories, and arrogant with it.

    4. Doug Daniel says:

      Yeah, I thought she sounded very impressive, saying the kind of things only heard before from Labour For Independence types over the past couple of years… Then she spoils it with that nonsense.

      It’s exactly the same with Neil Findlay – some of what he says is actually pretty good, but he just can’t stop seeing everything through a prism of SNP hatred.

      If it wasn’t for the tribal bitterness, the pair of them could potentially do exactly what Labour needs to revive its fortunes, and putting my SNP hat on, I would be pretty worried about them. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it), that’s not going to happen.

      (And Dugdale will win anyway, thanks to her efforts at self-promotion over the past couple of years.)

      Maybe it was just as well we didn’t get independence this time round – perhaps we need to rid ourselves of this sort of tribal pettiness before we can start afresh? I mean, how can these people be trusted to put the interests of a new Scotland first when they still think like this?

    5. Training Day says:

      Saw this, should have been surprised, but wasn’t. The arrogance is unchanged, the sense of entitlement undying.

      The first part of Scotland Tonight last night shows what we will face in the next six months. This was in essence a PPB for Scottish Labour and their nebulous, never-defined concept of ‘social justice’, but, as the Rev says, it was also the official starting gun on the ‘vote for us to keep out the Tories’ mantra with which we will be battered by the ‘Scottish’ MSM until May 2015.

      The question remains open – how do we stop Labour voters who voted Yes reverting to that party in the GE under the weight of the coming bombardment?

    6. pa_broon74 says:

      Its like that old chestnut during a relationship break up: ‘Its not you, its me.’

      Scottish Labour? Its definitely all you this time.

    7. The only thing that matters to Labour politicians is the Labour Party. It’s their turn for government in Westminster so come on Scotland do your duty and ‘go to the back of the bus’ .

    8. Helena Brown says:

      Listening to the guy on Sky Newspaper revue this morning about being born into a Labour dynasty, where do these people come from. I am no fan of the English on the whole but they do vote tactically everywhere but in the North of England where they have the same disease as parts of Scotland.
      Where do they think they are coming from. My parents both voted Labour, I have never voted for them and never will. Lying b’s the lot of them. They have no entitlement for the voted of the Scots than any other party, they do not even work for us.
      Training Day, my fear also, back to tribalism and then the relentlessness of the BBC and MSM.
      Oh Miliband will have the flame thrower turned on high, they have already started in England, but the Scots will rally to the defence as usual.
      We really seem to have some of the stupidest people with the right to vote.

    9. maxi says:

      Katy, you and your treacherous all party friends in Scotland are about to get something starting with F….. and it is not SEX.

    10. Luigi says:

      It seems the dependent state of Scotland exists to serve the Labour party and nothing else. Anyone who thinks outside the Red Tory box is hated. Correction: Anyone who thinks is hated.

    11. CRAIGthePICT says:

      It is arrogant beyond belief, to view the GE in terms put forward by Katy Clark. To portray the election so narrowly through rose tinted specs is myopic to the current situation in Scottish politics and that change is required. The 2 horse race line NEVER stood up to scrutiny, but now pretty much EVERYONE knows it.

      It says a lot about the quality of Labour parliamentarian, that NONE of them have faced the reality of their situation in Scotland. The people that are ‘serving’ us (in Labour) a truly inept and selfish.

      I would be angry, if it did not entirely suit the nationalist cause for these MUPPETS to be in such continuos denial. It truly is stunning that these so called socialsts continually put party (in other words their own careers) before people, which is supposedly their actual job FFS.

    12. Kenny says:

      I just finished watching it. Dugdale’s “my focus is on Westminster” was kinda laughable at first until I realised that she was just angling the media line to say (once again) that a vote for the SNP is a vote for the Tories. Once upon a time, that might have been true in the sense that splitting the non-Tory vote could theoretically enable a Tory government to get in. But now it simply doesn’t matter. The Tories and Labour are not different creatures. They held a firm line together during the campaign, voted together on the bedroom tax and the welfare cap and Labour have even done the charming thing of promising to be TOUGHER on benefit claimants than the Tories! (Having just got back from signing on for the first time in a long while, I can honestly say I have no idea how they intend to do that, by the way. Workhouses? Debtors’ prisons?)

      Also, just a wee technical point, Stu – there’s no such thing as the “Old Firm” any more. Rangers ceased to exist a few years ago, remember? 😉

    13. David McCann says:

      Aye. “Scotland could let US down”. Not WE have let Scotland down.
      Labour dont give a stuff about Scotland.
      Lord Faulkner on the Andrew Marr Show last Sunday. “Listen to Ed. We are clear about….devolution to the cities”
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/…/b04ph1…/the-andrew-marr-show-09112014
      Scroll to 1hour 16minutes
      Not a word about increased powers to Scotland

    14. Geoff Huijer says:

      I would say it’s an ‘unbelievable’ attitude and thing to say… but it’s not; it’s Labour.

      They don’t do ‘representation’; they do ‘self-preservation’.

    15. Jack Murphy says:

      Katy Clark MP–British Labour Party— North Ayrshire and Arran.
      Majority at last Westminster election–9,000.

    16. Andrew Morton says:

      Rather than call on the Labour Party to change, it’s obvious that we should change the electorate.

    17. Robert Louis says:

      I agree that Labour has much lower to go, before the real change required within the party happens. At present, it is being held back by 40 odd Labour MP’s from Scotland, who are riding the Westminster gravy train, and really couldn’t give a flying bleep about Scotland.

      We saw this all too clearly during the referendum campaign, with Labour working hand in glove with the Tories, just to preserve the careers of those Labour MP’s at Westminster.

      Only when they get booted out of office in 2015, will we finally see a chance for Labour to return to its roots in Scotland.

      Right now, so far as Labour is concerned, it is somebody else’s fault, and NOTHING to do with their utter betrayal of peoples hopes and faustian pact with the Tories against the people of Scotland.

      Scotland needs Labour like a hole in the head.

    18. desimond says:

      The Old Firm(deceased) is annoying?, yeah and Dons fans are so lovely.

      Reading that above all I could hear was Jimmy Nail paraphrasing in my head:

      She says ‘it’s not me- it’s you
      You need a little time, a little space
      A place to find me again, You know? ‘

      Oh yes, I know a denial when I hear It

      She smiles
      But my heart’s already out there
      Walking down the street

      She says
      ‘You don’t want nobody else
      You love me’, she’s denying
      ‘there can’t be somebody else
      but that’s not true’

      She’s denying

      ‘say I’ll always be your friend
      Sweet darling’

      Why does she pretend?

      Ain’t no doubt, it’ plain to see
      A Party like you’s no good for me
      Your heart’s beating at another door
      I’m a done fool for to listen any more

      She says
      ‘it’s like in a song, remember?
      “if you love someone, set them free”
      Well, that’s how it is for me

      And then she kisses me
      And somewhere I hear a door slam

      So I say ‘fine’
      And just hope that I’m a better liar
      Than she is

    19. ClanDonald says:

      Poor “Scottish” Labour are so frustrated because they know that they CAN’T change even if they wanted to. They can’t offer Scotland the policies that we want because English Labour won’t let them, so all they have left is to try and con us into thinking prescriptions & student fees are good for the working class. Or else scream “SNP BAD!”

      Luckily for the SNP there’s nothing they can do to change things and with Jim Murphy in charge they’ll be even more under the thumb of Westminster. Tee hee.

    20. Stewart Dredge says:

      This was a long and very gentle interview of these two Labour politicians. Unlike Mandy Rhodes the interveiwer seemed as concerned as they were about Labour’s loss of popularity in Scotland. The thing I find strangest of all is that neither Labour politicians nor the Scottish media are discussing which specific policies should be changed to help Labour’s recovery. We hear a lot about “listening” and “leaning lessons” but no senior Labour politician prepared to go much further and the Scottish media has been pathetic in its attempts to press them on the matter. A good starting point would be to ask Johann Lamont “Right, Johann, you said that the Scottish Labour Party was run like a branch office under Milliband. What, exactly, did Scottish Labour try to do that London Labour disallowed?”

    21. Kenny @ 11.45 chastised the Rev for using the expression “Old Firm”; going on to parrot the Celtic Family party-line about Rangers being “deid”.

      Rangers as existed pre Craig Whyte was certainly liquidated. Yes, in my football writings I refer to the present “Rangers” as “the Tribute Act”, but, sadly – a team wearing royal blue shirts and under the name “Rangers” still plays out of Ibrox Park; the old tribal songs are still sung, the old tribal creed is still observed and, certainly, when “Rangers” and Celtic were drawn together recently in the Lerague Cup semi-final, the intellectual giants of the Scottish Football Writers Association positively wet themselves at the prospect of the rebirth of Old Firm matches.

      And again, on the basis of: if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck – it is a duck.

      Sadly, the Old Firm is still with us, and will probably prove harder to eradicate than Old, or New, Labour.

      In any case, the Rev’s use of the term “Old Firm” made perfect sense.

    22. That sense of entitlement is precisely why the Westminster party is having convulsions right now. Ed Miliband is dire. We all know he is. It’s no secret, and never has been. What’s galvanised his critics – and scared the bejesus out of them all – is the notion that they can no longer take a single vote for granted … and that’s what they were counting on.

    23. tombee says:

      No need to apologise, no need to examine and learn from our failings. Letting down good honest folk who did vote for Labour over decades.
      It’s not our (Labour’s) fault. After all we are the only party people in Scotland should vote for. It’s our devine right to rule Scotland, The electorate of Scotland owe it to us.
      And if they don’t we’ll get Ian Davidson to give them a right good ‘doing’.
      The arrogance of it is mind blowing. I wonder if hard working folk are impressed as they trudge along to the food bank to help support their low earnings and feed their families ?.
      Or the folks having to be assisted by the Scottish Government to elevate the drastic circumstances of the bedroom tax which Miliband needed a year to decide his policy on. How many Labour MPS turned up to vote against that scurge ?.
      Aye as has been said before, ‘you’ve voted, now get to the back of the bus and shut up’. That’s what the North British Branch Office of New Labour is all about.

    24. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      hope this aticle helps destroy the bunch of corrupt bastards, despise every last one of them.

    25. gillie says:

      Doesn’t Katy Clark know that Scots are not genetically programmed to make political decisions.

    26. think again says:

      179 days from now we will all know who was let down by whom. Hopes and dreams will have been realised or dashed but hoping never produced a result, sustained effort does.

    27. ClanDonald says:

      Training Day: we have to get the message out that Labour aren’t interested in more powers for Scotland, as proven by their submission to the Smith Commission and that if we want more devolution we have to return SNP MPs.

      I actually fear a labour govt at WM as much as a Tory one. Not only will they copy the Tory austerity plan, they want to devolve powers from the Scottish Parliament down to local authority level, thus increasing labour control and leaving Holyrood a powerless shell. They will do everything they can to ensure a indyref will never again happen in the future. People need to realise Labour are still working against Scotland’s best interests, putting the party before people. This is the message we need to take to the doorsteps.

      Plus reminding people of the Labour Party 2 year love-in with the Tories during the referendum period.

    28. Lol I am fighting manfully not to rise to the bait of this OF nonsense …

      And I just did 🙂

    29. David says:

      There is a real lack of reality within society in general.

      These politicians are merely a symptom of the underlying problem, they really are representatives of what is fundamentally an uninformed population.

      Sorry, i know that im being offensive here but I cant see this any other way. My previous misgivings were somewhat put aside by the momentum of the independence campaign but now im back to where i once was.

      Here is some points that back up my claim that ignorant politicians are the result of an ignorant society –

      1 – with trillions of pounds worth of oil in the North Sea there are people that are actually surprised that Westminster didnt allow Scotland to walk away with it all simply by a referendum, and played every dirty trick they could to keep it. do we believe that the powers in the world will ever allow us 5 million Scots to manage this resource for our benefit? Are we really this unaware of the last 50 years of resource theft and genocide all over the planet?

      2 – people were shocked at the BBC’s bias. I have to ask what planet these people have been living on for the last few decades? And id like to point out that the willful ignorance of these people has helped to enable westminster to lead the U.K to commit crimes against humanity in other parts of the world all while reality is spun and twisted by a compliant media – and a telly-zombie population.

      3 – no one seems to be addressing the 2 elephants that are pretty much filling up the room, that are going to become ever more present an issue regardless of who is in power and under any terms whether Scotland is independent or not and both of these hypothetical elephants have ECONOMY written all over them.

      The first (and least important) is the issue of debt and how money is used in the economy as a whole. The paper money we use now has a ‘sell-by-date’ on it, its losing value all the time and there is nothing that can be done to change that simply because of the way that the monetary system works – money is debt.
      I was able to warn of the housing bubble collapse (and the subsequent ‘recession’) to the exact day 5 months before it happened, i s**t you not. Yet there was no economist, politician or ANYONE who gave a warning or even now talks about how it was easily predictable and indeed foreseen.
      My point is that we have a series of further financial calamities coming ahead and nobody is talking about it. AT ALL. Instead everyone’s attention is wrapped in these worthless entities we call ‘politicians’ and some s**t called ‘The vow’ that an ignorant f**king rag of a newspaper that nobody with half a brain should have trusted anyway published in a manner and at a time that would have insulted a child’s intellect.

      The second huge issue is so big that it dwarfs the first issue.
      Yet there is not 1 political leader or even a political party that i am aware of on the planet that even mentions it. This issue has to do with what is termed ‘technological unemployment’. The trends are set – human labor is being replaced at an increasing rate by accelerating advancements in artificial intelligence in every single sector of the economy. What does this mean? On the face of it it means increasing unemployment across the board but the deeper issue is that there is only so much unemployment the economy can take before it enters a terminal state of collapse – the economy is driven by consumption and when a critical mass of people are unable to sell their labor on the open market and spend back into the economy then an inevitable depression ensues and the monetary/market system as we know it is at an end. The funny thing is that market forces will continue to replace human labor with automation wherever and whenever they can simply due to the need to maintain a competitive edge.

      One can research this 2nd issue themselves, in fact i highly recommend that people do this. The question ultimately is – are our ‘leaders’ simply uninformed or are they simply reckless?

      Our focus on what is important is currently arse-for-tit at the moment and people are not being given the relevant information to change that.

      Our civilization is changing faster and more completely than anyone could have imagined and there is no going back. Our politicans and economists are utterly out of touch with reality, indeed they are part of a system that is now utterly out of date and failing us completely and yes, that does include the pro independence ones.

      For those who want a thought exercise on this you should search for -Three Questions: What do you propose? On Youtube.

    30. Naina Tal says:

      In a relatively long voting career I’ve placed my X against most parties at sometime or other. Rather naively I suppose I always tried to vote for candidate over party. Except for the Tories. I’ m just not wired up for voting Tory.

      Then sometime around 20years ago the candidates stopped chapping my door, and I wasn’t about to vote for someone I knew nothing about. Likewise I’m not generally about lending my vote to political parties, whose policies are only marginally less worse than the others.

      For much of that time I spoiled my ballot paper, writing “No confidence”, or “No knowledge of any of the candidates”. I’ve always believed in Independence, and eventually my leanings in that direction Meant the Red Tories joined the Blue on my barred list. Don’t know when Home Rule was dropped as one of their tenets. Probably when they started getting gubbed by SNP.

      One of the many things I could never stand about Westminster politics is the kind of hatred between parties. I detest these despicable creatures for attempting to import that standard of politicking into our Parliament. Even worse,the lies,deceptions and downright fraud they committed during the ref campaign.

      I’ve never been a party member in my life, but there’s only one issue right now, and only one party who can possibly deliver.
      Joined SNP 19th September 2014.

    31. desimond says:

      Im reminded of a scene from Brookside, when a wife in denial is ranting at her estranged husband of 25 years :

      Wife: YOU’VE CHANGED!!

      Husband: You havent!

    32. Mark Coburn says:

      “We’re Labour first, Scottish second.”

    33. Mark Coburn says:

      All this stuff needs to get out to the wider public, preferably a month before the election. Could we not fundraise to get all these comments on a CD (Jim Hood being another who springs to mind) and fired through every door in Scotland.

      At least something of that order.

    34. John H. says:

      Another reason that Labour didn’t want to form a coalition with the SNP was that they had made a mess of the economy while in power and had no idea what to do about it. Apart from Gordon Brown, I think that they were quite happy to go into opposition. After all the money’s still good, and there’s no responsibility.

    35. Grouse Beater says:

      They cannot shake off the belief that they are elected in Scotland for sole purpose of representing Westminster.

      They are effectively trying to be servant of two masters.

    36. Iain says:

      What did you do wrong?

      You abandoned the working class and the poor! Reorganise yourselves, ditch all of the careerists, give us a policy programme including a wealth tax, abandonment of militarism, punitive reorganisation of the banks, a living wage, regulation of uncontrolled corporate interests etc etc,(you know the rest of the script, if not, read Owen Jones and Piketty)

      And I will vote for you (although it will cost me financially, but my conscience will be easier)!

    37. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Socrates MacSporran

      The name Rangers is not a football team, it is a franchised cult, which sometimes makes money.

    38. Nana Smith says:

      From labour hame website. Tells you all you need to know
      “we’re labour first, Scottish second”

      Prof Trevor Davies, chair of Edinburgh Northern & Leith CLP, says we should ask to be judged on how well we work together.

      So – Scottish Labour has another corner to turn, another chapter to write, and, soon, a new voice to lead us and speak for us

      Whose ever that voice might be, let us all now stop talking about “Scottishness”. That doesn’t define who we are and never has. We’re Labour first and Scottish second.

      We’ve been trapped into that debilitating nationalist frame far too long. It’s a competition we can’t win and never should have joined. Let us leave it to the SNP to explore that political dead end, defining themselves as who they are against, blaming others. Scotland didn’t vote for nationalism – it voted for union.

    39. ronnie anderson says:

      Rev & why may I ask have you left out Kezia,s contrabution to the interview.

      People in Scotland voted NO in the Referendum ( wait for it )

      TO KEEP THE TORIES OUT. Now that is a Belter of a statement,now we know the problem with the electorate,we can fix it.

      Con’d & fuddled, so’s me.

    40. desimond says:

      @Nana Smith

      .. defining themselves as who they are against, blaming others..

      You owe me a new keyboard and a chicken sandwich! 😆

    41. AnneDon says:

      North British Labour have been in the huff with the Scottish people since 2007. They’re waiting for us to notice, but we’ve been getting on with our lives and our political education. In fact, we’ve got used to being without them, we’ve become Scotland. And they haven’t noticed.

      May 2015 is Prom Night – what will they do if no-one wants to vote them Prom Queen of North Britain?

    42. Helena Brown says:

      Just to go O/T a tiny bit, Wings twitter account has a little bit of a post from Labour Hame by a Professor Trevor Davies, I suggest a look, very interesting in that he sees that it should be Labour first and Scottish second. Now I see a few names I recognise in the comments section. It could be Labour’s suicide note if it became more widely known which I imagine is the reason for the tweet on Wings. What Labour failed to see was that they did not win, not the decisive win they needed. They won by promising something they have no intention of delivering and sooner or later even the Scots are going to see that.

    43. Nana Smith says:

      @desimond

      Oh dear, I do apologise. I learned a long time ago not to eat or drink when reading about politics and especially if it concerns the labour party.

    44. Robin Ross says:

      For the first time in a long time I listened to a Labour politician, Katy Clark, and much of what she said was coherently argued and seemed based on principles one used to associate with Labour. (Kezia Dugdale, on the other hand,rattled off a set of aspirational policies with no attempt to explain how they may be achieved, and set in a context of instantly forgettable sound-bite soup.)

      As Stu has pointed out, the sub text was the appeal to Scotland to vote Labour. Both politicians were banking on the unpopularity of the Tories in Scotland.

      This reminded me of the attitude of many Palestinian friends in the 80’s who said they preferred the Likud party as with them they knew where they stood. While the Labour party made soothing noises much the same sort of degradation to living standards etc. continued.

      I now feel in the same situation: the present Westminster government is utterly repugnant, but at least we know where we stand with them. With Labour we’ll get much the same only dressed in sleekit flannel.

      Ironically, Tony Blair’s “third way” politics has now opened up – just not in a way he ever expected. We now do not need to agonise over an ‘either or’ choice of party – Holyrood has changed all that.

      Kezia Dugdale had a swipe at the SNP claiming it had stolen Labour’s social democratic mantle. Well sorry, you and your ilk handed it over down to your underwear.

      No doubt we’ll hear much more from all the SLAB candidates, but expect more of the same old song.

    45. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dan Huil says: 11 November, 2014 at 11:18 am:

      ” …“Scottish” Labour politicians make me sick. Red Tories, and arrogant with it.”

      Actually, Dan, the real story is that the whole Westminster party system is a sham. No matter what particular title they grace themselves with. When the proverbial push comes to shove, the Westminster Establishment ranks close against, “The outsider”, and the outsider faces the might of the whole, “Establishment”.

      Make no mistake – Parliament is but one wee facet of, “The Establishment”. It involves the English Private Schools system, (including Oxford & Cambridge), big business, the banks & financial sector, the Civil Service, Armed Forces, The Church of England, The media, (including the State Broadcaster), the Secret Services, The police force, The royals & aristocracy and the law.

      Throw in a few elites, such as the Masons, Orange Order and so on and you begin to see what a formidable force the Scottish Independence movement is standing against. All this so called, “Austerity”, is a sham too – there really is no shortage of funds in this, so called, United Kingdom. The reality is a vast, and ever growing, chasm between the haves and the have nots.

      There we have the truth. That gap between the very rich and the very poor grew far more under the last several Labour governments than it did before and after their tenure in office. If you imagine I’m wrong consider this – What class of people are the Labour Party leadership drawn from? The answer is the exact same elite rich, private school educated, Oxbridge elite as the LibDems & Tories. As are the heads of the other parts of, “The Establishment”. They are, in general, all former school mates together.

    46. MikeyPops says:

      I went to school with Katy Clark and still have a chuckle every time I see her being described as being on the “left” of the party. She is a career politician of the champagne socialist variety who grew up in what would have to be described as an “Upper Middle Class” area. Anyone who thinks voting Labour is a show of working class solidarity should take a walk down Ronaldshaw Park in Ayr and muse on what really motivates these people into standing for Labour in Scotland…

    47. gillie says:

      It is an obvious question to ask all Labour leadership candidates, “Has Scotland let Labour down?”

      A good follow up question is, “Are you Labour first and Scottish second?”

    48. Cath says:

      I have no idea why so many ungrateful, whinging Jocks won’t vote for a party that’s just spent two years joining together with the Tories and right wing media to denigrate them as Cybernats, fascists and compare them to Nazis for the terrible sin of wanting to control their own affairs. No idea at all. It’s all so unfair!

    49. YESGUY says:

      The video is typical of all the Labour ranks.

      A disgusting self serving bunch of Judas’s .

      If we allow these bastards to get any seats in the GE we’re going to end up a third world, third rate country or region depending on how you vote.

      In the spring we have to destroy labour.

      The tory’s are typical and you know what you get, Libdems are bust and the liars of labour are flapping and telling us how much they listen then blame SNP for all that’s wrong.

      WRONG?????

      SNP

      Free prescriptions. Free care. free university . Council tax freeze.
      £25m extra from CW to go to NHS Scotland.

      I could go on but it’s Labour who want all of the above scrapped. The bastards will lie and cheat to save their collective arses …. for the party.

      I think our job is simple. Show the people of Scotland what they are really offering.

      Cuts Cuts Cuts.

      Oh and yesterday they said the £25b cuts were way too low and now need to make £48b to balance the books.

      All that will force thousands more into poverty. Food banks will rise. MP;s pay to rise by more than most folk earn a year and no doubt they will find some poor bugger to go to war with.

      Labour must die for Scotland to live. FACT.

      Labour hold Scotland back. Labour keep the poor in their place for their WM masters. Labour who vote against ANY policy good for Scotland because it helps us Nats.

      Tick Tock you thieving liars.

    50. Nana Smith says:

      Here is the link to the article from prof Davies…

      http://www.labourhame.com/labour-first-scottish-second/

    51. ronnie anderson:

      Did she really say that? Sweet Jesus …

    52. Dcanmore says:

      What Labour have in Scotland is a lust for power but not actually having any vision or ideas to sell to the Scottish people with ‘leader’ Miliband looking increasingly lost every day. It’s like the situation the old Liberal party found itself in after the First World War. They got used to having ‘their turn’ and when the new boy came along (Labour) they couldn’t handle fighting two parties at once. Now that the new boys (SNP) have established themselves as a parliamentary force Labour are scrabbling around with the notion that they are the righteous party in Scotland and the people should bow and scrape before them in their consituences because of historical tradition. Of course what happened to the old Liberals back then is happening to Scottish Labour now, a dead party populated by political zombies all trying to hold onto the gravy train like grim death.

      These politicians are not Labour first, they are Unionists first, they are British nationalists, having a red rosette at election time means nothing if your policies and actions are the same as they guy with the blue rosette, for that Labour only have themselves to blame and that is the one thing they can’t bring themselves to do. Labour need absolution in Scotland but to achieve it they need to confess their sins to the Scottish people, ask for forgiveness and start again. But it will never happen when the real ongoing effort for the ‘One Nation’ Labour party is persuading the SE of England to vote for Ed.

    53. Jane Paterson says:

      The definition of stupid is not to learn from your mistakes. Need I say more.
      Labour do not deserve a single vote in Scotland. They have betrayed the Scottish people and will continue to betray them.

    54. Both the Tories and Labour are travelling the road of devolution of some powers to cities. So what’s to choose between them! Looks like that might be what’s on offer from the Smith Commission. A ‘compromise’ that undermines the Scottish Parliament.

    55. R-type Grunt says:

      I heard this witch make that comment and my TV nearly didn’t survive. Who the fuck is she to tell me how to vote? Actually, who the fuck is she? Period!

    56. Marie clark says:

      Oh well, a’ yous bad boys & girls out there you must stoap voting SNP. Desist at once. Don’t dare vote for a government that actual cares about their country and their citizens. Aw naw, that’ll no dae at a’. You must vote labour so we can keep our greedy snouts in the trough doon in laundon.

      Did I get that right? seems to be what they are saying. They are always listening & learning by their way of things, but they never ever learn anything.Einstein’s quote on madness springs to mind.

      I really despise these foul creatures. You got that bit right Rev labour are a plague on Scotland. Betray their country at every hands turn, ignore their own people for party benefits.

      Utter, despicable, ("Tractor" - Ed)ous scum. Tae hell wae the lot o them. Soon hopefully.

    57. Fred says:

      Silly wummin, words fail me.

      I hear the Aberdeen fans took a roasting at the weekend, not only did their team lose but they were outsung by the smallish Celtic contingent hammering home the, tories in disguise message, we know you voted no, sheep shagging tories, etc’. Just saying ken 🙂

    58. ThomPy says:

      First time I’ve heard Katy Clark, she has the potential to be a good SNP MP 😉 Unlike Kezia who’s voice, even when she’s not whinging, is like a cheese grater on my nipples.

      Despite that I’ll mention her commenting about how Labour’s focus of being anti-SNP instead of defining what Labour Party stands for (blah blah blah) has all changed now – which would have been good words had she not ejaculated SNP BAD! SNP BAD! SNP BAD! right at the end of the piece.

      The face Katy Clark pulled when Kezia tried to drag her into her SNP BAD outburst was telling too. Made me laugh.

    59. Haggis Hunter says:

      Labour, BBC, Westminster have only ever talked Scotland down during the referendum.
      It wasnt the silent majority that won the vote, it was feared pensioners and BBC labServative lies;
      Something for nothing people.
      Oil is too volatile for Scots.
      Not genetically capable to run a country.
      Not your £.
      No shipbuilding.
      All of the World is against you, you stupid people.
      NATO doesnt want you, ie Nuclear Alliance Treaty Organisation.
      UEFA doesnt want you.
      Europe doesnt want you.
      Pope says No, Obama says No, the £10 pom says No
      etc
      All lies, all Labour, never forgotten!

    60. CameronB Brodie says:

      Honestly, I’m not fixated but these Fabians are a funny(sic) lot. For example, Margaret Curran was a contributing author too this report, whilst fellow Fabian Jim Murphy supports Israeli apartheid and ethnic cleansing.

      Peace and security in the Middle East.
      What should Labour party policy be?

      e.g. THE ONE STATE PROPOSAL IS NOT SO MUCH UNFEASIBLE AS IMPLAUSIBLE. IT IS A SOLUTION MAYBE YO A DIFFERENT PROBLEM, BUT NOT THIS ONE. OR AT LEAST NOT NOW.

      http://www.lfpme.org/files/LFPMEPAMPHLET.pdf

      @ Ed Miliband
      Doesn’t exactly mess with what you told Labour Friends of Israel?

      And after 10 years of continuing rocket and mortar attacks on Israeli civilians from Gaza, of course there remains deep concern amongst Israeli citizens about their security.

      So attaching the right priority to our relationship with Israel means fully understanding its security concerns and the threat to its people.

      Therefore, we must ensure Israel’s security and right to protect itself.

      http://www.lfi.org.uk/489/

    61. bobby says:

      saw that programme last nite and wat about the other lieing halfwit sitting next to her just not being able to stop her self far haein a wee dig at the snp same shit different toilet

    62. chalks says:

      Enough talking about Labour, no one gives a fuck.

      Let’s talk about 20+ SNP MP’s in the House of Commons and what it can do, because that can also ‘keep the tories out’ which labour don’t quite seem to grasp.

    63. Dr Ew says:

      Perhaps the good Professor’s article would have been more accurately headlined: “Britain First, Labour Second… and Scotland a complete write-off.”

    64. Suzanne says:

      The sense of entitlement infects most of British politics which is why we want no part of it. These MPs need to be reminded time and time again that they serve us – we are not theirs by right.

      Our Scottish government has proved time and time again that they fight for Scotland. That’s the kind of commitment and loyalty to Scottish voters that I admire and vote for.

      Labour will promise the moon on a stick if they think they’ll win back votes, but we know what they stand for and where their philosophical and political mindsets are. Backing the Tories, and perpetuating Tory policies if they win in 2015.

      They’re a disgrace.

    65. Jim Mitchell says:

      Remember the old saying? The more things change, the more they stay the same. That’s Labour to a T.

    66. ronnie anderson says:

      Daily politics ( Disconect) discussing what Political Leaders wear.Its not a fashion contest they’re entering & Im not interested in what they wear ,its about policy & whats in they’re head (Brains preferebly) over the Cut of they’re Suits.

    67. david agnew says:

      labour have changed from a party that embraced socialism to one that is little better than a ponzi scheme. A ponzi scheme were membership is defined along the lines of the Dilbert Principle, where the “top” members ensure the lower ones are selected because of their incompetence. The rotten house of cards is then propped up by people voting labour to keep the tories out.

      They’ve dined out on that slogan for so long, they have gotten fat & lazy. That’s where the sense of entitlement comes from. As voters leave, the whole scheme faces collapse. The whole gravy train is in danger of derailing. Since these fine upstanding troughers have lost sight of what they stood for, its easy to see why they seem incapable of dealing with it rationally. So there only instinct is to attack the things they stood for, and then defend the very things they once stood against. For example, Labour’s attack on universalism, while trying to normalise food banks. This is the sort of thing the tories did. But you expect that from them. You feel vindicated by not voting tory, because you know were you stand in relation to them. Labour now talk like tories but expect you to vote for them because of what they once stood for.

      The soundbites are old labour, the reality is conservative.

      Change for the better – Could have, Should have. That is labours epitaph.

    68. galamcennalath says:

      I think SLab’s priorities lie at the centre of it’s problems. Their fundimental role seems to be to do what London wants, and be what London wants it to be.

      Slab’s mission is firstly to provide loyal MPs, and secondly to stop powers moving from Westminster to Holyrood because therein lies the route to ultimately losing those MPs.

      People often say SLab puts party first. I’m not so sure because if that were the case they would have policies which were best for the party. They don’t.

      Serving London and the Union is all they care about (apart from taking taxpayers’ money at a personal level).

      If SLab wanted a bright and long future they only need to disassociate themselves from London, and push for maximum powers (not minimum). They do the opposite. And, I’ll bet they continue to do the opposite!

    69. Taranaich says:

      Katy Clark is actually one of the less wretched of her party’s current Scottish elected representatives

      Yet even this (less) wretched individual was totally and utterly useless when it came to voting for more powers to be devolved to Scotland:

      http://wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/the-devo-files/

      She’s in good company, of course – she joins Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown as one of only three Scottish New Labour MPs who did not turn up to a single vote on what would later become the Scotland Act 2012. Clearly great deputy leadership material right there!

    70. Murray McCallum says:

      Which branch of the Labservatives is this?

      Is it the one that is seeking to drive austerity policy cuts or the one that accepts and follows them?

      Is it the one that sees pensioners as living on welfare, or the one that wants to be even tougher on welfare?

      Is it the one that introduced student tuition fees or the one that wants to increase them again?

      Whatever branch it is I hope citizens put themselves before either and not let themselves down (yet again).

    71. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      OT

      News Flash

      RBS is advising the City of London Police on financial corruption. You couldn’t make this one up.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcL5TQeVUhc#t=172

      From the BBC, tumbleweed.

    72. HandandShrimp says:

      Katy assumes then that if it is Scotland that will let Labour down then they are going to win in England in 2015.

      I think that, on current poll numbers, looks unlikely.

      If Labour were truly humbled by their election reverses they would be saying “we let Scotland down” but that is a mind set change I don’t expect to see any time soon.

    73. BrianW says:

      It’s just another case of Labour not being able to see through their Red Tinted Glasses, and the end of the nose they sit on.

      Everything I hear form them is all about protect the party, save the party, get the party back in power by all means and lies.

      I have yet to hear any coherent policies that relate to the people they say they represent. It’s funny, cause all through the Referendum debate, people were commenting that the result what ever way it went might reinvigorate the party (I don’t have any links/clips sorry), but it has has the complete reverse effect (gladly). They are imploding, and I am happy to sit back and watch it all unfold. Well read it about on here cause as far as the MSM is concerned everything is Rosy Red, and so by my reckoning are complicit in the Labour deceit.

      The Labour Branch office in Scotland’s actions speak volumes. Yet they sit there with confused looks on their faces as to why the electorate are turning away from them in droves. But rather than actually doing something about it internally. taking a good hard look at themselves, they turn on the very electorate and blame them.

      Astounding. Absolutely astounding way to run a political movement.

      Jo-La blames London, Katy’s blaming us.. Margaret’s got a knife.. He said this, she said that.. We’re not in power and we should be..

      Oh, Boo-hoo..

    74. Macart says:

      I couldn’t give a flying… squirrel about letting Labour down.

      A newsflash to any Labour types scanning these pages. Parties are supposed to represent people. They are supposed to reflect the wishes of their electorate and constituents accurately. They are supposed to address the needs and cares of said electorate and if possible the wider community which may or may not support them ideologically or otherwise.

      A wee hint there as what you have done and are continuing to do wrong.

      Furthermore, the people don’t work for the Labour party, the Tory party or any F**KING party. YOU WORK FOR US!

      Scotland has not let Labour down. Scotland has in point of fact given Labour chance, after chance, after chance and loyalty upon loyalty over a great many years. Labour let Scotland down and to be brutally honest, Labour has repaid the Scottish electorate’s long term loyalty by stabbing them in the constitutional back. You deserve all that’s coming to you and then some, but make no mistake, you brought it all upon yourselves.

    75. TheGreatBaldo says:

      “I hear the Aberdeen fans took a roasting at the weekend, not only did their team lose but they were outsung by the smallish Celtic contingent hammering home the, tories in disguise message, we know you voted no, sheep shagging tories, etc’”

      Aye we did…gallingly (as almost every Red I know voted YES)…we had no comeback

      Will be more of the same and even worse for Scotland fans vs Ireland on Friday and England next week

    76. fred blogger says:

      what patronizing arrogance, they sure do have a massive sense of entitlement!
      that they still have burgeoning expectations of being served by the people, is unbelievable.
      i say earn the respect of the people just like the scotgreens ssp and snp et al have.
      slabs have shown themselves to be spineless.

    77. AuldA says:

      @David:
      Yet there is not 1 political leader or even a political party that i am aware of on the planet that even mentions it. This issue has to do with what is termed ‘technological unemployment’. The trends are set – human labor is being replaced at an increasing rate by accelerating advancements in artificial intelligence in every single sector of the economy.

      Gosh, I am glad to know I am not the only one to hold this as a truth. I could add that our woes began the day some eejit declared that ‘By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground’ (Gen. 3:19) and some related havers. Because of that non-sense, people have been locked in poverty and we are desperately pushing against that trend which should, on the contrary, be welcomed as the most beneficial thing that ever happened to man. Nowadays, if we had embraced this revolution rather than resisted it because of that antiquated hooey, three hours per week of voluntary work would largely suffice to cover the needs of any countries. The rest could be done by machines.

      But this is not new. This is how Bertrand Russell concluded his essay In praise of idleness: ‘Above all, there will be happiness and joy of life, instead of frayed nerves, weariness, and dyspepsia. The work exacted will be enough to make leisure delightful, but not enough to produce exhaustion. Since men will not be tired in their spare time, they will not demand only such amusements as are passive and vapid. At least one per cent will probably devote the time not spent in professional work to pursuits of some public importance, and, since they will not depend upon these pursuits for their livelihood, their originality will be unhampered, and there will be no need to conform to the standards set by elderly pundits. But it is not only in these exceptional cases that the advantages of leisure will appear. Ordinary men and women, having the opportunity of a happy life, will become more kindly and less persecuting and less inclined to view others with suspicion. The taste for war will die out, partly for this reason, and partly because it will involve long and severe work for all. Good nature is, of all moral qualities, the one that the world needs most, and good nature is the result of ease and security, not of a life of arduous struggle. Modern methods of production have given us the possibility of ease and security for all; we have chosen, instead, to have overwork for some and starvation for others. Hitherto we have continued to be as energetic as we were before there were machines; in this we have been foolish, but there is no reason to go on being foolish forever.’

    78. Devorgilla says:

      The way we stop Yes voting Labour types from reverting to Labour at the GE is to point out that Labour is no longer Labour. They are Tory. So you have a basic choice between Red Tories or Blue Tories, or you can vote for Scotland’s party (or parties; though it’s unlikely Greens or SSP will score a hit under FPTP).

      If the SNP scores enough MPs to hold the balance of power, it will not enter any coalition with Tories, but it could enter a coalition with Labour. In which case it will make Labour actually answer to Scotland and to social justice.

      The only way to get some degree of socialism is now to vote SNP.

    79. Neil Dorward says:

      Just checked out Scotland Tonight program from last night – 10th Nov 2014 re Kezia Dugdale and why some people voted No and yup its true … Surely one of the most ridiculous statements made by a Scottish Labour MSP – Kezia Dugdale … wait for it … many people voted No in the Scottish Independence referendum to keep the Tories out next May! Staggering, just incredible eh. (see video around 6 mins 44 secs). Although there are possible more ridiculous statements out there from the Scotland branch of the UK Labour Party

    80. Grant says:

      Narcissism

    81. muttley79 says:

      It has been obvious for quite a considerable period that SLAB’s elected representatives are mostly populated by careerists. They have effectively stopped arguing for change, and are very much part of the status quo with the Tories and Liberal Democrats. They are part of the British establishment; even when they have been defeated by the Tories in general elections, they still send their grandees to the House of Lords. Darling will no doubt be in the Lords shortly. This process of co-option has been going on for decades upon decades, and it eventually has completely blunted any remaining radical impulses in Labour, north and south of the border.

      For Scottish Labour to have chance of a future they will have to support either Devo max or full independence for Scotland. If they do not return to being an ILP type party, reworked and retuned to the modern political era, then their decline cannot be halted. They cannot keep merely existing to protect their careerist MPs, MSPs and local government base. Keir Hardie supported what in effect today is Devo max. Yet, SLAB are bitterly hostile to even this…

    82. Fiona says:

      It seems clear that the labour party’s traditional approach was to take Scottish votes for granted on the assumption that left of centre voters had nowhere else to go. Commentators like David Aaronovitch made that explicit by consistently arguing that the small differences between labour and conservatives meant one had to hold your nose and vote labour, as the lesser of two evils. There was a time when that might even have been true. But it is not true any more. There is no substantive difference between labour and tory at all.

      I think this is now obvious, not just to Scottish voters, but also to a great many social democrats in the rest of the UK. However english voters are in a very difficult position since they do not have an alternative which has already demonstrated that things can be different (within the constraints of the devolution granted so far). That there is a constituency which is no longer satisfied with the choice on offer is easily seen in falling turnouts for elections and in the rise of UKIP. Unfortunately UKIP has decided to pretend to some leftish policies so as to appeal to traditional labour voters in the North of England; while espousing neocon rhetoric in the south, and welcoming out and out fascists into their ranks in europe. We can call that National Socialism not as a Godwin, but as a description. It is no accident that UKIP do not have an explicit manifesto: they want maximum wriggle room to give the impression they agree with the disaffected voter’s position, whatever that might be.

      As I see it, this is not about labour “letting Scotland down”: it is about labour ditching all its principles and goals across the whole of the UK in the hope of appealing to that sector of the electorate which buys into the neoliberal stance, and which they judge to be essential in securing a majority at Westminster. That is presumably because they live in the Westminster bubble and have no contact with the people they are supposed to represent.

      I remember Roy Hattersley addressing this during the Blair years: he opposed the “what works” mantra and argued that the party could not have a reason for existing without principles and ideology to inform the policies they adopted, and to serve as a standard against which to judge those policies. He lost that argument, and so labour is now inherently corrupt. “What works” is always useless unless you ask “works for whom?”. Inevitably the answer to that question became “works for the labour party”. It could not be otherwise once the ideology was abandoned.

      Unfortunately for that party they are now discovering that the strategy does not work for the labour party: and this is a mirror of the same experience for the tories. Their answer to “works for whom” is “works for the very rich and for large corporations”. For while they managed to convince a lot of people that the interests of the elite were the same as the interests of the majority, through “trickle down” etc. But that did not work long term either, because ultimately people can see that is not true (though it takes longer than I had thought possible).

      It is amusing to think that the two great 20th century leaders of the tories and labour respectively, Thatcher and Blair, have ended by destroying their parties: neither command a majority and both are held in utter contempt. But it is not amusing to see the consequences in the form of UKIP, helped on by a supportive media which is both powerful and corrupt.

      The arrogance on display is in the context of entitlement to Scottish votes for labour: but the problem is not confined to that context. The exact same difficulty is apparent across the UK. Unless and until Labour understands why they cannot take support for granted; unless and until they understand that they are actively damaging those they are supposed to represent; unless and until they learn that their own mindless faith in their own decency is worthless and that votes no longer depend on who you are, but rather on what you do, they will not turn this around. It will take time in the situation where the media have a strong interest in persuading use that it is all about the “personality” rather than the manifesto. But you really can’t fool all of the people all of the time

      If labour has any vestige of decency left, they need to recognise that fascism is the end result of this. They need to fight that from the left, and so far they show no sign of recognising the problem at all.

      They are doomed, no matter what happens in the next general election in Scotland. The problem is wider and deeper than that. Or so I think.

    83. Robert Peffers says:

      @Training Day says:11 November, 2014 at 11:24 am:

      “The question remains open – how do we stop Labour voters who voted Yes reverting to that party in the GE under the weight of the coming bombardment?”

      TWO pointS seem to have flown over most people’s heads, (Including many independance supporters), The first is that there is no such party as, “Scottish Labour”. There is only the Westminster/London Labour Party. The second being that the Labour Party is just a segment of, “The Establishment”, and the Establishment is composed of all the Unionist Parties and also includes the royalty, aristocracy, financial sector, English legal sector, English education sector, armed forces, police force, Law, et al.

      “The Establishment”, is composed of powerful, disparate elitist groups who, together, strive to protect their elevated positions in a larger democracy that has the right to vote. It is their collective efforts to, “manage”, that democracy that is, “The Establishment”. It assures democracy is no threat to their interests or finances. Much like a, “Firewall”, the aim is to insulate, “The Establishment”, from the voting population. In short, “The Establishment”, is elitist groups of people, with power and financial capital, finding ways to protect itself and its money from us, the voters.

      In this instance the Labour Party in Scotland is aiming to keep the Scottish, Non-Establishment parties out of office to protect, “The Establishment”. Labour in Scotland doesn’t care which of, “The Establishment”, parties actually gain power at Westminster, just as long as it is not either the SNP ot any other Scottish independence party.

    84. chalks says:

      We should all rejoice that ‘Kez’ is going to be deputy leader.

      Apparently she was turned away from the SNP and instead of trying again, went to Labour.

      Believe she has family in the SNP as well, which makes her hatred of the SNP all the funnier.

      She is the definition of a career politician

    85. Wilty says:

      I’m a bit of a newbie to politics, so please excuse me if I’m being a bit thick… but I thought politicians were supposed to represent their electorate, not the other way round?

    86. Devorgilla says:

      I’d really urge Yessers to join community councils.

      The Unionists ploy is to undermine Holyrood by going over its head by giving more powers to local authorities.

      But local authorities need breaking up. They need fewer powers and more devolved to grass roots like community councils.

      Local authorities are way to powerful and unaccountable. There needs to be more power devolved away from them. Councillors are unable to manage and leave many decisions to unelected officials. There is no effective oversight.

      Edinburgh has seen a number of scandals in recent years because councillors do not have sufficient oversight over officials and highly controversial and unpopular decisions are taken which are remote from ordinary voters.

    87. fred blogger says:

      AuldA
      see demand for european basic citizens income.
      + http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/skarabrae/ the good life!

    88. muttley79 says:

      @Neil Dorward

      Kezia Dugdale is really the epitome and personification of the careerists in SLAB, she will and do anything to protect her and her colleagues’ status. Nothing is too ludicrous, whether it is posing for that cringe worthy, awful photo in the Daily Mail, to saying that people voted No to protect themselves from the Tories, and going around carrying a picture of Salmond as a coin, with the rest of the troughers in SLAB! 😀 😀 Dugdale attacks the SNP for only one reason, they are the main threat to SLAB’s continued self preservation. Dugdale is against meaningful and significant change in Scotland because it directly jeopardises her and her party’s prospects and success.

    89. De Valera says:

      As a 19 year old voting in my first GE, I was warned sternly by my staunchly Labour parents that a vote for anyone else would let the Tories in, so I like most of Scotland, duly voted Labour….and got John Major. There and then, and to the disgust of my family, I realised that only an SNP vote would save Scotland.

      If we maintain the Red Tory vote, they will continue to take us for granted and the Blue Tories will continue to ignore us.

      Good comparison with the Old Firm, although I will say that there are at least some good people on either side, albeit in the minority. Can we say the same about the unionist parties? (I have to say I don’t like either of the old firm either, despite being raised in the traditions of one half, though not the half you may think by my psuedonym).

    90. Jack Murphy says:

      Thinking of voting British Labour in May’s General Election?
      After 80 years of Labour and Tory governments THIS is the reality.

      Iraq life expectancy is 67 years. Glasgow Calton is 54 years!!
      A disgrace in 2014 Scotland.

      http://indyref.trendolizer.com/2014/11/in-iraq-life-expectancy-is-67-minutes-from-glasgow-city-centre-its-54.html

    91. As has been said, this programme, not that I watched it, will just have been a P.P.B for the Labour Party. Haven’t we learned anything from the referendum campaign? The elephant in the room is, and always will be, the media, led by the B.B.C. In the run up to next year’s G.E, that will, as always, be our biggest obstacle to returning as many S.N.P M.Ps as possible to Westminster. And yes, I know some people might like to have a broader spectrum of independence supporting M.Ps, but I feel, for the present at least, it has to be the S.N.P, as they are the people with the necessary infrastructure to compete with the unionist parties. So anyone who thinks that the Labour Party in Scotland, despite it’s present troubles, are finished, are deluding themselves, and that’s not counting the tories and lib-dems, and all their friends in the media. We are going to have a real battle on our hands, and despite what the polls are predicting at the moment, any increase in the number of independence supporting M.Ps will be difficult to achive.

    92. Robert Peffers says:

      @Anne (@annewitha_e) says:11 November, 2014 at 11:26 am:

      ” … It’s their turn for government in Westminster … “

      Thing is, Anne with an e, the election is meant to give the electorate the choice of candidate – it is no longer a case of Labour’s , “Buggin’s Turn”, where the main object is to assure that it is always an, “Establishment”, party that gains power.

    93. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Katy Clark

      Sounds a lightweight, a bit of an embryonic Maggzz?

    94. Linda McFarlane says:

      Well Katy, If you want to know why I have not voted Labour for the last 3 General Elections. It’s because it became really obvious that you talked the talk – to get my vote, and then buggered off. I am really looking forward to “letting you down” because that’s all I got from you and your Party.
      my vote will go to the candidate most likely to beat any sitting Labour, Tory or Libdem MP.

    95. AuldA says:

      O/T but interesting. Apparently, Cameron received an icy welcome at the CBI congress. It seems Michael Rake has slashed the PM’s European stance, clearly stating that the UK had to choose between selfish withdrawal and optimistic openness, and that the bosses would always favour openness.

      This tends to bolster the hypothesis that, in case Scotland would secede to remain in Europe after a UK-no in the in/out referendum, many English companies would probably cross the new border and leave England for Scotland.

    96. Valerie says:

      Anyone who has worked in public service as a decent manager, will know what they are looking at in SLab – an attitude problem. A political party is no different to running a successful business, attitudes, behaviour, goals, have to be set and driven by the senior management. It’s one of the reasons I have waited until middle age to join a political party, I don’t join any team easily, and I won’t sit by idly, I’ll either work to influence or leave.

      The SNP won their right to govern, but never forget they are our public servants. They will be guided by our majority view, and adjust if necessary. They are always on message in public, they show cohesion and respect, they are prepared.

      They are business like, and have good customer care – they have sent me regular emails with apologies and updates about my membership card, delayed due to the surge in numbers.

      The above might be boring businesslike traits, but to me speak volumes about their organisation

      Contrast and compare the utter contempt, delusion, hatred, outright lies, back-stabbing, intellectually challenged, disparate grouping of people who inhabit the Scotch branch of Labour – they are pitiful.

    97. Ananurhing says:

      “Scotland lets US down…….undermines the (our) case in the whole of the UK.”

      Arrogant, delusional, and glib in the same breath.

      Regretfully, I don’t think there’s any way back for Scottish Labour. It’s contaminated. More toxic than the Tories. Flush it away and start again.

    98. Wee Jonny says:

      pa_broon74 says:
      11 November, 2014 at 11:25 am
      Its like that old chestnut during a relationship break up: ‘Its not you, its me.’
      Scottish Labour? Its definitely all you this time.

      I’d change that to “Its not me, it’s you. You’re just so different. You can’t go on like this. For us” to move forward and to stay together YOU need to change. I will listen, coz I am a good listener (sorry what did you say?) but it’s YOU, all YOU.” If you change then there may be a future for us”

      I don’t know what the actual time was that I realised I fucking hate the labour perty but it was years ago. It might’ve been watchin the first bombs drop on Baghdad. Stairheed talkin pish aboot Mandela the hero, after he died obv’. Seeing them huddin hands we the tories they hate so much. Their utter hatred of the S.N.P. and oor First Minister or every fuckin one of them talkin Scotland doon at every opportunity.
      They remind me of a friend I had when I was about 15. He was 18, living with his parents and always spoke pish aboot Dundee being shit. One day I said “If you think Dundee is so shit then why not fuckin leave!!!” I couldn’t understand why anyone who didn’t have a nice word to say aboot the place they lived, why they would continue to live there. And I still don’t. This sums up the labour perty for me. They never have a nice word to say aboot Scotland yet still live here rather than fuckin off someplace (south of the border of course coz they never spoke pish aboot ingirlaaand). That friend never mentioned what he thought of Dundee again and stayed there for years after, with his parents. It was all shit. They don’t mean it. He didn’t mean it. They just want something to say and hopefully have some dooshbag listen to it. He had friends for a while. The labour perty has and still have the MSM. I still hate them.

    99. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jack Murphy says: 11 November, 2014 at 11:36 am:

      “Katy Clark MP–British Labour Party … “</i

      No such thing as the British Labour Party, Jack. Did you perhaps mean the UK Labour Party?

      Britain includes four non-UK administrations – The Republic of Ireland, The Isle of Man, The Bailiwick of Jersey and the Bailiwick of Guernsey are all British but they are NOT part of the United Kingdom, (in spite of what the Westminster Establishment propaganda keeps telling you).

    100. desimond says:

      @Chalks

      you made me laugh out loud at

      ‘Enough talking about Labour, no one gives a fuck.’

      but if you want the epitome of Career Politician, look no further than this true work of political opportunity art:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmina_Ahmed-Sheikh

    101. Clootie says:

      They don’t even try to hide the arrogance.
      Labour OWN Scotland!

    102. fred blogger says:

      Robert Peffers
      yes, the how dare you tweet from the IoM govt re map, we are not part of the UK!

    103. CalumCarr says:

      O/T Saltire discovered on Glenn Campbell’s desk at BBC.

      http://imgur.com/2L0KJyo

      During Daily Politics interview with Brian Taylor the camera panned right to a confused Glenn Campbell.

      Will he be sacked now?

    104. heedtracker says:

      Let this plague burn itself out. Red Tories need the BBC/Daily Heil and Scottish Blue Tories to really get behind them, which sums up the whole nightmare lot of them.

    105. Will Podmore says:

      Revolution not devolution!

    106. liz says:

      Not only do we have to be careful of the MSM/BBC pushing – vote Labour to keep the tories out – we have also got Gerry Hassan.

      Was he Yes or No? – publishing possible seats achieved at the GE in 2015, saying Lab will be short of 32 seats for an overall majority when Scotland vote for SNP.

      This is a subtle way of saying what Katy said – you are letting US down by voting SNP at the next election – we have our work cut out

    107. manandboy says:

      Talk about Labour only lowers morale and lessens energy.

      Applying our brains to develop means and method to defeat Labour & Unionism – raises morale and improves energy levels.

      Q. With 90,000 party members in the Yes Alliance, are we AFRAID of Labour who are one TENTH of that?
      A. Yes we are.

      Because:-
      1. They are Unionist Establishment which controls the
      Press, Radio and the most powerful election tool – TV.
      2. They use Fear, Smear and Bribery without limit.
      3. They are above the Law.
      4. They control the Voting Process from start to finish.
      5. Their financial resources are without limit due to
      Tory money as well as UK Gov money.
      6. They know every dirty trick in the book.
      7. Large numbers of Scots are politically illiterate
      with many not voting.
      8. 1 Million elderly can be easily manipulated,
      because they scare very easily
      and because they love TV and watch it all the time.

      GE15 is going to see a repeat by Labour of the Fear Smear IndyRef Campaign – with only one change, viz. voter memory of Labour sleeping with the Tories
      and Labour working directly for Tory HQ to secure Scotland’s wealth for the super rich.
      But what impact will that have and will it be enough.

      The SNP IMO simply MUST MUST MUST secure the elderly vote by means of an attractive electoral contract over pensions and Winter Fuel Allowance.
      The FEAR of losing their pensions was a HUGE factor for many elderly No voters in Indy.
      The SNP made a massive mistake by not protecting the pensioners from the threats by the No Campaign. Cannot afford to make the same mistake twice.

      We need to make the running from the front instead of trailing behind McTernan’s strategic pace setting.

      We need all the solid Indy ideas in a fresh campaign which is a little less naieve and a little more savvy.
      We need less wishy washy, airy fairy, political phrases talk
      and more plain English about direct action which is going to affect peoples everyday lives.
      We need to be on our toes and alert to Labour’s moves as they happen and then to counter them immediately.

      (To all the girners who jump at any chance of attacking positive ideas of how to get things done – don’t bother.
      Do something that actually helps Scotland. If you can’t think of anything, then just keep quiet.)

    108. Murray McCallum says:

      Scotland must be an endless let down for new OneNation Labour.

      Alas, I think Scottish voters must learn that Labour’s ambitions have outgrown our little country. Maybe we should simply offer them a good farewell, bonne chance and mind the step on the way out.

    109. Sandy says:

      Yeah the voters let the labour party down.

      Words fail me.

    110. Brian Fleming says:

      Last night I watched a documentary on Finnish TV about the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of the Communist dictatorship in East Germany. I found it really moving, and thought, come on Scotland, you can do it too. I really have no interest in the Labour Party changing. I want it destroyed. It is the last bastion of neo-liberal Unionism in Scotland. I pray it comes a cropper big time next May.

    111. heedtracker says:

      Or, how come every Labour says vote No campaign meeting before 18th Sept was a closed and vetted event and Sturgeon now talks to packed halls across Scotland? Crash Gordon in particular never spoke to anyone other than the carefully picked.

    112. mike Mccallum says:

      scotland has not let labour down. Labour has let Scotland down. They have shown their true colours.tories or labour in Westminster. I dont give a toss any more. They are both the same.they are just shitting themselves that they will be out of work by next year.vote Scotland. Vote snp.

    113. CameronB Brodie says:

      Jack Murphy said:
      11 November, 2014 at 1:44 pm

      Thinking of voting British Labour in May’s General Election? After 80 years of Labour and Tory governments THIS is the reality.

      Iraq life expectancy is 67 years. Glasgow Calton is 54 years!! A disgrace in 2014 Scotland.

      THE ONE STATE PROPOSAL IS NOT SO MUCH UNFEASIBLE AS IMPLAUSIBLE. IT IS A SOLUTION MAYBE TO A DIFFERENT PROBLEM, BUT NOT THIS ONE. OR AT LEAST NOT NOW.- Margaret Curran.

      Statehood is GOOD for Israel but BAD for Scotland. – British Labour. However, there seems to be some disagreement within Labour’s senior ranks, as to whether statehood would be good for the Palestine. I despair at the influence this DEAD PARTY WALKING has on our lives.

    114. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s a great shame about Katy Clark. Last election 2010 I voted SNP, secure in the knowledge she would get back in anyway, but it would have been a dilemma if it had been close. I’d almost certainly have still voted SNP for Indy, but she used to be a good MP.

      I was surprised when she stood as Deputy, perhaps shocked, as it made it clear she was still part of the machine. I presume she was urged because she has one of the best reputations as MP, but for me it has tarnished that.

      What she should have done is leave Labour and stand as Independent, declared herself neutral on any future Independence Referendum, suppporting the “will of the people” on Devo-Max, and she’d have romped home 7/5/15. I’d have had a dilemma whether to vote SNP – or her as Independent.

      As it is, she’s made my choice a dawdle. Bye now, Katy.

    115. Wee Jonny says:

      This is old but I still love it –

      Alex Massie on the Labour Party-
      “What you see is the intellectual incoherence and bankruptcy of the Scottish Labour Party. A party that hasn’t had a meaningful idea in at least a dozen years. …Labour haven’t really recovered from losing in 2007 let alone 2011. Yi know this is a party that had the sort of arrogance and complacency that swanked around the place speaking as the voice of the people, it turns out that the people don’t think that the Labour Party represents them”

      Alex you had me at “intellectual incoherence”
      What I loved and love aboot this is that he said it right to her puss. And after she picked her ja aff the flare her comeback was “Well I don’t agree with that.” ‘course yi dinna Johann. ‘course yi dinna.

    116. pipinghot says:

      But what must be remembered is that we almost won this referendum despite all the dirty tricks used, Labour will not win the GE in may and the polls will show this on the run up to voting day. Saying vote for US to keep THEM out is as hollow a statement as any promises or VOW’s recently made.
      The Labour party died in 1997, and they all know it too.

    117. yesindyref2 says:

      Ladbrokes are now 1/5 Murphy, Hills were 1/7 but now oddschecker has no odds showing for any candidate from Hills. Perhaps the “professional” city banker type has put a lot of money on Murphy. That means Dugdale as the other half of the pair, so Clark has probably made the sacrifice in vain.

      I’m beginning to think that Murphy is the best bet for Labour long-term, but only if he genuinely does embrace Holyroood and put his own politics to one side.

    118. CameronB Brodie says:

      Correction: THE ONE STATE PROPOSAL IS NOT SO MUCH UNFEASIBLE AS IMPLAUSIBLE. IT IS A SOLUTION MAYBE TO A DIFFERENT PROBLEM, BUT NOT THIS ONE. OR AT LEAST NOT NOW.- Margaret Curran, et alia.

    119. desimond says:

      @yesindyref2

      In what possible way could Jim Murphy( remember ITS Jim Murphy!) be good for Labour? Quickening their demise to ensure a quick death rather a drawn out descent into oblivion?

      The more time goes on, the more Labours appeal and fan base diminishes while the disrespect and anger at them grows.

      This blue parrot is dead. It is no more.

    120. AuldA says:

      @fred blogger:

      Thanks for the pointer on Skara Brae. I have always been fond of prehistory, and didn’t know about this place.

    121. jimnarlene says:

      They, Slab, let us down; by siding with the other Tories against Scotlands interests and a better future. F*”‘k them.

    122. A.N.Surgent says:

      Was brought up knowing that the enemies of the tories were the poor, the sick, the young and the old. So I knew what to expect from a tory government. These groups are now the enemies of the labour party and thats what makes them the most despicable of all the political parties.

      Scientists have discovered that the stupidity of the labour party is caused by a virus.

      http://rt.com/news/204151-plant-virus-people-stupid/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

    123. Clootie says:

      AuldA says:
      11 November, 2014 at 2:56 pm
      @fred blogger:

      Thanks for the pointer on Skara Brae. I have always been fond of prehistory, and didn’t know about this place.

      Worth a visit plus Maes Howe, Eagles Nest, etc
      The various standing stones is a key part of any trip.

    124. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      Is there a Labour Party in N Ireland?

    125. ticktock says:

      Alex Beveridge @ 1.47pm

      “The elephant in the room is, and always will be, the media, led by the B.B.C. In the run up to next year’s G.E, that will, as always, be our biggest obstacle to returning as many S.N.P M.Ps as possible to Westminster.”

      This is so true and doesn’t seem to be being addressed properly.

      It’s perfectly feasible that grassroots campaigning/awareness enabling between now and May 15 could take a couple more percentage points away from the red tory vote, but if we want to see the kind of overwhelming support for Independence (i.e. 65%+) and also ensure the destruction of ScotchLab then we are going to need a new Scottish TV channel and a newspaper which would be unbiased in their presentation of the case for Scottish Independence. We need to get into the media mainstream without becoming what “mainstream” currently means.

      There are pots of money (advertising revenue) out there just waiting for some Scots pro indy, media savvy entreprenuers to get their act together and make it happen.

      Without it how long would it take for demographics to catch up? Doesn’t bear thinking about.

    126. chalks says:

      @Desimond

      Aye, a strange one!

      In other news, I just about spat out my satsuma reading what indyref2 had to say about Jim Murphy.

      I’m amazed so many of us actually give a toss who they have in ‘charge’

      The battle-lines have been drawn since 2 years ago, if you think people will forget about everything that has happened, your insulting them like Project Fear did.

      Most folk now know, if you want a vote for Scotland, you vote SNP. More so than ever once the Smith Commission has it’s fallout and we find out why they are aren’t giving us devo-max.

      This is where Murphy and the rest of Labour will be caught in the trap by the Scottish Electorate, as they will undoubtedly agree with us getting sweet fuck all and then the fun begins.

    127. Martin Wood says:

      Findlay has the support of the unions,

      surely if the Smurf is sneaked in they’ll be a riot

    128. desimond says:

      @Martin Wood

      The Unions chose Ed Miliband and Johann Lamont

      Hardly the High Priests of Good Judgement

    129. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      “By “us” she meant the Labour Party”

      True but she was also talking about herself. No doubt she’s seen the recent polls and her majority, though very big, won’t be enough to save her. Even if the polls get better for Labour she will be ill-equipped to deal with an extremely motivated and rather massive number of SNP members campaigning locally to unseat her. The arrogance she displays in taking scottish voters for granted, and even getting ready to blame them, is precisely why she is unfit for office.

    130. AuldA says:

      @Clootie:
      Thanks for the further pointer. Prehistory carries you from the temples of Malta to the tombs of the Orkneys!

    131. liz says:

      O/T but Dr Rob Westaway and Prof Paul Younger, of the University of Glasgow’s School of Engineering are advocating lowering the controls preventing fracking.

      https://archive.today/MiiXA

    132. Angry Weegie says:

      Now we know why Labour keep accusing Scots of wanting something for nothing. They want us to give them something, our votes, and in return they give us nothing. Labour are truly the something for nothing party.

    133. liz says:

      @A.N.Surgent – You got there before me!

    134. Will Podmore says:

      A Wings supporter, who lives in Chelsea, has just emailed my workplace trying to get my employer to take action against me for posting to Wings. Nice.

    135. desimond says:

      Will Podmore says:
      A Wings supporter, who lives in Chelsea

      Sir Paul McCartney?

    136. bjsalba says:

      There is a great piece on http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/
      under “Why do we keep voting for “more of the same”?

      Really wonderful to shove through the doors as a postcard or leaflet- any time from now till the GE in May.

    137. Valerie says:

      Stop posting then Will! Problem solved.

    138. Capella says:

      What Fiona said.
      Except that voters in England have no alternative. George Monbiot :
      “But there is another party, which seems to have discovered the fire and passion that moved Labour so long ago: the Greens. Last week they revealed that their manifesto for the general election will propose a living wage, the renationalisation of the railways, a maximum pay ratio (no executive should receive more than 10 times the salary of the lowest paid worker), and, at the heart of their reforms, a wealth tax of the kind Piketty recommends
      …You wanted a progressive alternative? You’ve got it.”

      http://www.monbiot.com/2014/07/29/unmasked/
      Of course, the media will not allow them direct access to airwaves to promote their policies.

    139. A.N.Surgent says:

      @Liz
      Sorry Liz, get yourself the RT app.

      No mention of the chemicals that will destroy the water table or the soil or the hundreds of lorries used that will destroy the roads and with roads being a devolved power the SG will be forced to pick up the tab.

    140. Graeme Doig says:

      Plod

      Stop bleating and get on with your work.

    141. Kenny says:

      I am still hoping Murphy wins the vote for head branch manager of the Red Tories. He will not only further decimate the party from inside, but he will also put off new people joining, especially in the universities. What normal student is going to join a party in which the leader supports tuition fees, nuclear weapons, Israel over Palestine?

    142. wingman 2020 says:

      The decision as to which Tory party (Red or Blue) gets in to Westminster at the GE, should be left to the English. They will take that decision, with or without our vote.

      Scotland needs to concentrate on one thing… Which party is best at looking after Scotland?

      North Labour – Trying to disguise their North and South policy differences, and the unsuitability of London Labour policy to working class Scotland.

      SNP – Just listening to the electorate and doing their level best. Don’t get everything right, but a damn sight more than ANY other political party.

      Let the millions of people in England wrestle with the Westminster problems… At the moment with UKIP and Greens on ascendency and people genuinely disenfranchised and frustrated by the choice, the current Bullingdon Berties or Millionaire Milliband. lets face it neither is a good choice.

      It’s very simple in Scotland. Vote for the people who are going to fight for the extra powers that the majority of people want as evidenced in recent polls. The majority want DEVO max – North Labour don’t. What does that tell you? Labour don’t care what the electorate want. Labour care about holding onto power.

      If Curran et al have to ask what they are doing wrong… it informs us that they are narrow minded, blinkered and out of their depth. In other worse, they got in on the the basis of ‘Red Rosette on a Monkey or Donkey.’

    143. Mosstrooper says:

      Katy Clark seems to belong to the “Dick Tuck” school of political theory.

      Tuck was the USA Democratic candidate who, when he lost said “the people have spoken, the bastards”

      Well Katy, they have and you are still not listening.

    144. scunnered says:

      it shouldnt bother me in the slightest what any labour mp or msp says anymore because i will never vote for them again but it makes me angry that they think they have the god given right to scottish votes..whats wrong with these people surely it isnt that hard to see they have made a total arse of themselves..FFS

    145. Valerie says:

      ‘re. The Uni so called experts asking for relaxing rules on fracking, the stance has to be no fracking. You only have to look at the mess the USA is in with this shit.

      The govt broadcaster has wheeled these old farts out to tell us plebs how stupid we are.

      This is a huge issue that really needs community action to make the whole thing too much other for the corporates.

    146. A wee idea: it might be worth thinking about for canvassers to go to folks’ doors equipped with such short, snappy clips as the above on their mobile devices so the electorate can readily see what they think of them.

      “Good evening, here’s your local MP and this is what she had to say…”

    147. Kenny says:

      It’s funny when you read of Annie Lennox decrying “anti-Englishness”, yet she can’t see that the Labour Party, for example, despite the people of Scotland. She forgets that a country is made up of its people, and she seems to think that Scots just wanting to run their own affairs somehow translates into a hatred (?) of people south of the border. It reveals a person with very poor analytical skills.

      The tragedy of the Labour Party is their blind hatred of the SNP, so they are always prepared to cut off their nose to spite their face, shoot themselves in the foot. People on here can see the merits of people like Clark or Boyack, for example. Nicola Sturgeon is clearly prepared to be friendly to Labour — as long as they do not do evil to her beloved Scotland. But they have such blind hatred of the SNP and Scotland being independent, that they would rather be in opposition in a united kingdom than in power in Scotland and Wales, for example, implementing policies designed to help their supposed electorate.

    148. Clootie says:

      AuldA

      A theory exists that the people of Skarra Brae moved to Ireland then stonhenge before Egypt or at least communicated.
      They certainly new astronomy.

      http://www.discoveringireland.com/neolithic-sites-in-ireland/

    149. fred blogger says:

      they claim not to want to be the scottish branch office of the labour party and “it could be Scotland that lets us down” contradict themselves by confirming that they in fact are.

    150. CameronB Brodie says:

      Valerie
      That’s not very nice. I’ll admit not having paid particular close attention, but why would you want to close down Will’s point off view?

    151. john j says:

      So there we have it.
      We the Scottish people have let the Labour party down. Shame on us, how dare we? What on earth made us think that THEY were there to serve US. How could we have possibly misunderstood our role in the great scheme of things; SHAME! SHAME! and thrice, SHAME! on us. DELUSIONAL PLEBS that we are.

    152. boris says:

      I have added Carol Craig and her husband Alf Young to the post. An interesting couple with many networking links in Scotland and further afield. Very firmly in the Labour camp .

      Carol, one time girlfriend of Gordon Brown confirmed Labour lovie and her, “crisis of confidence”. Carol closely identifies with the West Coast Labourite and is part of the Willie Ross / Donald Dewar clique She published an erudite study into why there was a ‘Scots – crisis of confidence’.

      For our part We like the SNP standing up to the establishment bullies, we feel better about ourselves, the Scottish nation moves on to better things and proves what the academic Carol Craig’s book stated was in fact holding us back but tramples over Ms Craig’s, ‘New Labour’ political sureties because part of her (and many of us) ‘knows’ she is siding with the perceived ‘bullies’ and her identified cause as the basis of the Scots – crisis of confidence.

      http://caltonjock.com/2014/11/05/bbc-scotland-labour-party-mouthpiece-in-scotland-politically-corrupt-biased-public-inquiry-badly-needed/

    153. Valerie says:

      Will is a regular, and he will know why I have offered this advice. It’s no secret he trolls here, for his own amusement.

    154. Kenny says:

      O/T

      Skype conversation with John Drummond

      Tuesday, November 11th, 2014 at 3:00 PM EST on IndependenceLive

      John Drummond is chairman of the Constitutional Commission we will be talking about what they are up to and disscussing their Fringe meeting at the forthcoming SNP conference in Perth with a very impressive panel. It takes place on 15th Nov in the Salutation Hotel, South Street, Perth, starting at 12.30. The meeting will be chaired by Linda Fabiani MSP and the panelists are Craig Murray, Mary Lockhart, Mhairi Black and John Drummond.

    155. A.N.Surgent says:

      @Valerie

      There are a few local meetings concerning fracking on http://www.indyscot.info/

    156. r baxter says:

      two demented parrots and there are more where thy come from. I would vote for a family of mearcats first. on the other hand close wastemonster farm.

    157. wingman 2020 says:

      Meanwhile Milliband has been taking a massive pasting in the media (Guardian included) about his lack of Leadership ability.

      I think this is well deserved. He waffles and pontificates useless soundbites that just frustrate ordinary people. The man is a biscuit*.

      What amuses me are the dozens of Labour worthies and apparatchik below the line, whining about the negative and biased MSM…. Serious music to my ears.

      Man goes to Doctor: *Doctor Doctor, my brother thinks he is a biscuit.

      Doctor: That’s terrible and shocking. Where is he?

      Man: Right here. In my pocket.

    158. wullie says:

      I think the Scottish Government should listen to the majority No voters and give them what they want.
      IE remove the following so that they become more comparable with their follow UK citizens
      Free uni tuition
      Free bus pass
      Free elderly care
      Free eye checks
      Remove the council tax freeze
      etc etc anything else you can think of.
      After all its what they as a majority voted for

    159. Valerie says:

      @CameronB Will was not stating a point of view, as another poster pointed out, he is bleating about his situation, and I think it’s easily resolved.

      Sorry to be pedantic, but I have never cut off a point of view.

    160. AuldA says:

      @Will Podmore: Well it looks hardly believable.

      @Capella: Thanks for pointing this out. Nice move by English greens.

    161. wingman 2020 says:

      @Will Podmore… Who cares.

    162. Valerie says:

      Thanks A N Surgent, I’m on that site, and part of the local FB groups. Standing by to deliver leaflets soon hopefully.

    163. desimond says:

      @Kenny

      What normal student is going to join a party in which the leader supports tuition fees, nuclear weapons, Israel over Palestine?

      Wasnt the student age range pro No ( or very close) in the referendum?

      I fear people who view todays students as caring social-minded souls (ala the good old days) also share the belief that the Labour Party can return to socialist values.

      (above is no dig at yourself Kenny of course)

    164. cirsium says:

      Dr Rob Westaway and Prof Paul Younger, of the University of Glasgow’s School of Engineering are advocating lowering the controls preventing fracking.

      thanks for the heads-up (4.02pm), liz. JHC, can money compensate for il-health, poisoned water and polluted air?

    165. wingman 2020 says:

      “Look at your passport – Britain is your country. Look at your trade union membership card – Britain is your country. Is the EU your country? Salmond is more loyal to that capitalist cartel than he is to his country (Britain).”

      “Hearthammer – did you notice the result of the referendum? The majority voted 55/45 that Scotland is not a different country. The message from most trade unions was to stay united, but the separatists wanted division. Those who spoke for unity won. Those who claimed that Scotland was a colony lost. The SNP hugged Brian Souter and tried desperately to hug Rupert Murdoch – and you still lost, because the majority of the people disagreed with you. Or are you one of those who think you ‘really’ won, and that the vote was rigged?”

      Yes, it is lamentable that 1.6 million people believe that splitting their country would be good for them. Distressing that 1.6 million people voted to abandon their country. But profoundly heartening that more than 2 million people outvoted the separatists and decided for unity.

      Will Podmore commenting on The New Statesman

      http://disqus.com/willpodmore/

    166. fred blogger says:

      Clootie
      AuldA
      the furniture is amazing, why have more people not heard of this place? it tells us so much about who we really are as people.
      the whole idea of buying our vitality giving vitals of life is an abomination.
      the natural rights of man to forge for our hearts.
      we move further and further away from this.
      all they needed was a laptop on the sideboard!
      the knowledge to build and settle skara brea must have significantly predated the settlement.
      no weapons have been found in or around the settlement.
      chaldee’s of iona!

    167. wingman 2020 says:

      @Valerie

      “Will is a regular, and he will know why I have offered this advice. It’s no secret he trolls here, for his own amusement.”

      Correct approach in my view.

      No problem with debating a different viewpoint. Big problem with people who deliberately use provocative language e.g. separatists and whinging losers.

    168. AuldA says:

      @Clootie:

      Well, it seems hard to believe that people from the Orkneys sort of colonized Ireland and went south down to Egypt. As far as I know, the megalithic civilization was born in Portugal around -6,000 BC and gradually spread North until Denmark and the Orkneys through the coasts of Biscay, Brittany and Britain. At least, that’s the thesis of Jean-Pierre Mohen, one of the best French specialists on megaliths and megalithic culture.

      It is however noted, though surprising discoveries of obsidian in Maltese neolithic sites (there is no obsidian source on Malta), that, even as far back as -4,000 BC, people had developed a sufficiently advanced technology to build boats that could be used to cross straights or channels several tens of kilometers wide.

    169. CameronB Brodie says:

      Valerie
      Fair point, Will’s not actually adding to the discussion. I’ll pay more attention in future, and see if I can figure out what’s behind his mask. 😉

    170. radar says:

      Wullie, what about a possible in/out EU referendum in 2017 ? Should the rUK allow England to leave the EU (and by implication the UK) if a majority there vote to leave even if a majority in the whole of the UK vote to stay in ?

      That would lead to rUK being made up of Scotland, Northern Ireland & Wales. As the successor stare, rUK would retain all existing membership of EU, NATO, UN , etc

      rUK would also retain sterling as its currency. Of course there would have to be some form of currency union with a newly independent England.

      If that’s what a majority od one of the partners in the Union vote for, then it should be respected. 🙂

    171. wingman 2020 says:

      Dr Rob Westaway and Prof Paul Younger, of the University of Glasgow’s School of Engineering are advocating lowering the controls preventing fracking.

      Is advocating the right word? Surely the best you’d do as an expert is feasible or possible to reduce controls.

      In any case, why reduce controls? Let’s just not do it.

    172. wingman 2020 says:

      @Cameron B

      See my previous posts.

    173. doug mcg says:

      Dugdale had a go at the snp at the end of the piece ‘re lvt land valuation tax . She was rewarded by Clark with a real old fashioned quizzicalix look for her attack . Probably as lvt is Labour party approved and is one of their few good policies.

    174. manandboy says:

      The sooner the BBC vacates the site at Pacific Quay, the better.
      The same sentiment applies to The Daily Record and STV.

      All three are an obstacle in Scotland’s path.

    175. CameronB Brodie says:

      wingman 2020
      No need to embarrass me now. Cheers for the tip. 😉

    176. manandboy says:

      http://www.labourlist.org/2014/11/tories-in-major-split-over-europe-as-may-denies-mps-vote-on-eaw-that-she-and-the-pm-promised/

      Tory backbenchers are livid – and rightly so – because they feel they’re being lied to.

      Long may it continue.

    177. Papadox says:

      Aye the peasants are revolting and the native ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s are in danger of loosing control of the natives and the Establishment Masters trust and treasure. What to do now to save our carreers, positions, our beloved SLAB golden goose.

      Blame and punish the innocent, pledge allegiance to the guilty and hope things will return to normal
      Grovel to the Londinium Establishment and swear allegiance to the ENGLISH system, turn on your own country sell your sole.

      That’s the SLAB way. TREACHERY!

    178. AuldA says:

      O/T:
      Apparently, the UKIP has secured a large lead in the Rochester byelection if one believes the latest poll: 44 % UKIP, 32% Tories and 17% Labour.

    179. Valerie says:

      IT,- chunkymark on Keiser report just now,talking paedo Britain!

    180. Clootie says:

      AuldA

      I’m just surprised by how many “common” constructions/decorations appear.

      http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/astronomy.htm

    181. fred blogger says:

      AuldA
      btw where is george galloway after claiming a yes vote will condemn r.uk to a 1000yrs of tories?

    182. jock wishart says:

      It’s unfortunate that we have the Kenny the Rangers hater on board here spouting his pish about no old firm anymore.It’s this kind of talk that starts wars.Move on your not in the playground now.

    183. James123 says:

      BTW can you imagine the headlines at the BBC if an SNP MP or MSP had said something similar. Another example of how the media protects BLAB.

    184. Jamie Arriere says:

      Yes, Labour, I’m afraid we have all ‘let you down’, and the growing concensus is that maybe we should you ‘put you down’.

      You’ll never listen to us, so toodle-oo

    185. balaaargh says:

      Blue Tory, purple Tory,
      Yellow Tory, red Tory.

      Doesn’t matter how you vote,
      You’re always gonna get Tory!

    186. Calgacus says:

      Why has Mcleish not been campaigning for Devomax? Did he not advocate some such position pre referendum.Not a cheep out of the slimy toad.

    187. Duncan Hothersall has blocked me on twitter when I asked him a few questions.
      They were about how the Clyde shipyards would feel that Labour lied to them if they voted yes they wouldn’t get the RN contracts.
      Why was there only one slab MP in the HoC debate about the living wage.
      He blocked me.

    188. Alex Clark says:

      I knew I had been blind to the reality behind the Labour Party after voting for them for almost 40 years.

      I had my doubts in 1996 and finally stopped voting altogether in 2011 before which I had never missed even a council vote.

      These devotees however are not just blind but deaf and dumb as well, they will go the same way as the Lib Dems and the Tories in Scotland.

      The word is getting out there, one conversation after another. There is nowhere to hide.

      RIP SLAB.

    189. farrochie says:

      In this clip, Ken Clarke tells us:

      “What you need is two governing parties, would-be governing parties, the choice is between David Cameron and David (sic) Miliband.”

      http://tinyurl.com/pvt7nx7

      It’s clear that the Westminster establishment is happy to flip between Tory and Labour. Clarke confirms it. Labour confirmed that as long as Westminster controls Scotland, Tory rule is preferred to independence.

      Scotland now has an opportunity to do something about the Buggins turn political circus.

    190. wingman 2020 says:

      @Cameron B

      The code for the future… “Billy Goat Gruff will be along soon.”

      When you hear that you will know you are dealing with one of these things from under the bridge.

    191. Bill McLean says:

      o/t AuldA – Maltese temples are magnificent. Hagar Qim, Mnajdra and Ggantija on Gozo. Hypogeum in Paola is also a great trip!

    192. arthur thomson says:

      The media and slab will be repeating the mantra ‘vote labour to keep out the tories’ ad nauseam. We have to find a slick answer to it – ideally something humorous.

    193. wingman 2020 says:

      @James Caithness

      There is a Facebook page for people blocked by Hothersall.

    194. liz says:

      @wingman 2020 – yeah maybe my English wasn’t correct but read the article – they want to make it easier to frack.

    195. Arabs for Independence says:

      Boris @ 4:42

      I remember Carol Craig (Chief Executive of the Centre for Confidence) coming to Dundee many years ago trying to punt her courses and material regarding improving self-confidence in Scotland. I thought it was more than bizarre and ironic when before the referendum she announced on BBC Scotland that she was voting No because we couldn’t cope on our own.

      Another labour free-loader and I hope there is a distinct lack of take up on her business.

    196. CameronB Brodie says:

      I hope folk don’t think I’ve teamed up with Will, so I wanted to post this.

      Will Podmore
      Now I remember trying to debate a point with you on the NS. The thing is, I tend to agree with a lot of your analysis, even though you do appear fixated with the EU, important as it is. Unfortunately, when you try to intemperate Scottish politics, you let yourself down by appearing to follow the “Bain” principle. In fact, it might have been on an article written by that very same troll, your apparent guru. You’re not an English Socialist, are you? Perhaps a Communist?

      Squealer’s speech – Animal Farm (1954)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReYeD9UXdk0

    197. fred blogger says:

      wingman 2020
      There is a Facebook page for people blocked by Hothersall.
      LOL 🙂

    198. TJenny says:

      arthur thomson – ‘We have to find a slick answer to ‘vote labour to keep out the tories’

      How about ‘vote labour, get red tories’? 😉

    199. Wingman do you know the name of the FB page?

      I did find this snippet on Hothersall FB. Some of the things Dugdale is saying is laughable.

      http://www.keziafordeputy.scot/why-im-standing-2/

    200. heedtracker says:

      Massive boost for Tory girl Ruth Davidson in rancid old Guardian this afternoon. Apparently Tory Leader is great because Ruth Davdison thinks homophobia is not a good thing, which I don’t realise until Ruth Davidson pointed it out and Scotland should know better than being so homophobic by now anyway. Bad Scotland region says red Tory Graun. It’s nice to see rancid hypocrites at Graun boosting the Scottish Toriies so hard but here in England thats it really. No news is UKOK good news from that region.

    201. Grouse Beater says:

      Liz: maybe my English wasn’t correct

      Nothing wrong with your ‘English,’ Liz. Your meaning is crystal clear, that’s the important thing.

    202. fred blogger says:

      James Caithness
      can she be any more patronizing.
      “i know you want change”, well why has she only suddenly just realized that ffs!
      and to add insult to injury not a trace of remedy, and still continue to define themselves by who they are against.

    203. Fairliered says:

      Funny how the words “we” and “us” keep appearing when labour politicians are on the BBC.
      I don’t remember hearing “we” and “us” when the SNP are on (or even when the tories are on).
      Proof that the BBC are the propaganda wing of the labour party.

    204. Grouse Beater says:

      “i know you want change”

      It’s all empty rhetoric.

      So long as they can count newspaper column inches devoted to their superficial utterances they’re happy.

    205. Fairliered says:

      Yesindyref:
      You have a choice in future elections.
      If you want a pro independence socialist party, vote SSP.
      If you want a pro independence social democratic party, vote SNP.
      If you want a pro independence party with an environmental outlook, vote Green.
      If you want a corrupt, self-serving crowd of scumbags that don’t care what happens to people, as long as the party officials can climb up the greasy pole, and whose hatred for the SNP is driven by a sense of entitlement, vote labour.

    206. wingman 2020 says:

      @James Caithness

      Sorry I don’t.

    207. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      I switched over half way through to watch Family Guy. I thought to myself, I’m hearing more sense from Peter Griffin, a moron.

      That sums up Scottish Labour.

    208. Paula Rose says:

      um – do we all us devotees of the neolithic pop over to off-topic, much more interesting than an extinction event.

    209. wingman 2020 says:

      @Cameron
      “The thing is, I tend to agree with a lot of your analysis”

      What? Analysis? You are kidding surely. It’s nothing but propaganda. The man spouts bile and nonsense. LOL

    210. wingman 2020 says:

      You can support Kezia at this link.
      Please supply name and email and reason for support.

      http://www.keziafordeputy.scot/support/?contact-form-id=7&contact-form-sent=840&_wpnonce=41ad0fb201

      Name: Dr. Michael Maus
      Email: mickey1965 [at] gmail [dot] com
      Why are you supporting Kezia? (optional):
      Postcode: eh18qt
      I would like to volunteer for the campaign: Yes
      Telephone (optional): 0131 537 2822

    211. Name (required) says:

      tories are red
      tories are blue

      vote for either
      and the will shaft you

    212. CameronB Brodie says:

      wingman 2020
      Sorry, I’m not a fan of the EU. However, I would rather be in it, than have England strip me off my EU rights and citizenship, if they vote to leave. If I’m kind, I’d say Will is being deliberately dishonest and misleading, when he come to talk about Scotland.

      Anyway, we digress. 😉

    213. AuldA says:

      @Paula Rose:
      um – do we all us devotees of the neolithic pop over to off-topic, much more interesting than an extinction event.

      Hmmm… Extinction of the paleolithic labour? 🙂
      But, yes, I will answer to this O/T sub-thread on off-topic in a few minutes.

    214. Wee Jonny says:

      O/T
      Check this oot. Chunky Mark & Max Keiser on RT
      https://soundcloud.com/rttv/westmonster-kp

    215. Dr Jim says:

      I have never, will never, under pain of torture, over my rotting corpse would ever vote Labour. They have never ever been a party of the ordinary person, all my 65years they have consistantly mouthed whatever anybody would swallow to get elected, i have met and known more social club committee robbers in my life than most folk have had the proverbial hot dinners, they even rob their own families to get ahead, OOH… ED Moribund just sprung to mind there. I want and deserve the most efficient government money can buy, OOH….we’ve got that…
      SNP………

    216. AndyC says:

      Arthur Thomson…’vote labour to keep out the tories’
      Aye, and get massive council tax increases, your bus pass cancelled and your winter fuel allowance scrapped.
      That’ll be a laugh!
      Which SLAB pensioner can’t resist voting for that one?
      The thing is, many of them will…

    217. arthur thomson says:

      I live in the Watford. If anyone else who reads this site lives within 15 miles or so of me and would like to discuss how a group of us could do something practical for the movement please contact me at seaforth1 at outlook.com.

    218. Another Union Dividend says:

      O/t
      Spotted former footballer Michael Stewart sporting his Yes wristband on BBC Adventure Show.

      He would be an articulate asset to any political party.

    219. Graham MacQueen says:

      Interesting comment made by Katy Clark regarding Scotland’s electorate traditionally voting for ‘Labour and Left-of-Center Parties’. Labour hasn’t been on the left of the political spectrum for a VERY long time. As both government and opposition, Labour have been upholding and supporting Tory policies. Why should they be surprised by the intentions of the scottish electorate now!

    220. Lollysmum says:

      Good piece on Bella about BBC staff at Pacific Quay in run up to indyref & saying that the staff were close to striking on 18th/19th September. Should have been months before!
      http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/11/10/the-revolution-will-not-be-televised/

    221. Aye its our fault they are crap,naw its their fault because they are arrogant and selfish,thinking only of their career.I have never voted Labour and never will I saw through them back in the sixties,and when I got my first vote it went to the National Party of Scotland,see how it reads different?

    222. jock mc X says:

      No such thing as the labour party exists.
      It is a scam.
      There was a labour party a long time ago,they are all
      dead now.

      Even the old timers could’nt hold to thier principles,
      red clydesider Manny Shinwell died Lord Manny Shinwell.

      The people who are elected into the thing which calls itself
      the labour party, know that millions of people in the UK who
      vote for them are voting for something which does not exist,
      they have nothing but contempt for those voters.

      The people who are elected into the thing called the labour
      party are vile creatures.

      Not some of them….All of them.

      That they must be dead inside is the only conclusion i have
      come to.

    223. velofello says:

      The problem for Dugdale is that she worked for Foulkes when he was an MSP, and you are judged by the company you keep.

    224. Claire McNab says:

      Bertolt Brecht was right.

      “Die Lösung” (The Solution), written about the uprising of 1953 in East Germany:

      After the uprising of the 17th of June
      The Secretary of the Writers’ Union
      Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
      Stating that the people
      Had forfeited the confidence of the government
      And could win it back only
      By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
      In that case for the government
      To dissolve the people
      And elect another?

    225. BornOptimist says:

      I thought it would be a good idea to produce some time before the GE a WEE PURPLE BOOK to complement the WEE BLUE BOOK. It would list all the lies and contradictions associated with Labour spokespersons for circulation in every constituency with a sitting Labour MP. Then I realised it would probably be as big as an old fashioned telephone directory.

    226. Dan Huil says:

      We shall not forget.
      At the moment, politically-speaking, Scotland is an occupied country.
      Tory Westminster rules us from its bunker.
      Labour politicians are the collaborators.
      We are the Resistance Movement.

    227. Natasha says:

      You know the worst thing about Will? He’s really, really boring. Try reading his book reviews. A cure for insomnia if ever there was one.

    228. Alex Clark says:

      I would like to see a WEE RED BOOK chronicling the rise and fall of the Labour Party from Kier Hardie through to Gordon Brown.

      A book of shame.

    229. Terry says:

      Another politician who can’t hold a candle to Nicola. I had the privilege of taking my 74 year old mum along to see her in Eden court in Inverness last night. She had everything you could hope for in a first minister – with humour passion and determination thrown in. It was great to see so many of us women there – and there wasn’t a whiff of the patronising BT lady types. At the end Nicola came down and shook our hands. What a night.
      On a more somber note though I can’t help reflecting that EVEL is probably a smoke screen. Ie it will prove to be unworkable and the Westminster parties will argue that if England can’t get some form of devo then we should relinquish ours?? They could carry on colluding against us. Although I suspect they may have a job on their hands withdrawing stormont. The fake vow, followed by Cameron and EVEL on the 19th just seems like parts 1 and 2 of a three act play. The end of which is their intention to biting the curtain down on Indy for good? Westminster couldn’t risk another referendum as these things gather momentum ie Quebec?

    230. TJenny says:

      Tattie-bogle – that article’s from 2010.

    231. Free Scotland says:

      @wingman 2020 at 7:12 p.m.

      Here’s one I made earlier.

      https://archive.today/xRG56

    232. Graeme Doig says:

      Lollysmum

      Seems to me that the PQ staff are complicit in allowing this state of affairs re funding to continue. That they seem to be fearful of their London masters is telling and unimpressive.

      The last sentence of that article sums things up.

    233. Alex Clark says:

      @Terry

      Yes, Nicola will make an excellent FM for Scotland. In my opinion there will be another referendum even in my lifetime and I’m 55 so taking a gamble on that 🙂

      You can be sure though, whether I am around to cast a vote or not, there will be one. That much is certain.

    234. wullie says:

      Labour like other unionists see the Scots as just another animal to be managed, a species that has to be controlled and contained. I would suggest that we have been managed pretty well, loss of language, land, history and to the north and south of our country replaced by an animal (sheep}. There can be few on the planet with that on their shoulders.

    235. Fran says:

      The Weirs were getting bashed again today in the tabloids. Jim Murphy needs £1m to fit campaign battle cos ” the SNP are funded by lottery winners” Good old Labour, they really know how to reach out and listen

    236. john king says:

      Suzanne says
      “These MPs need to be reminded time and time again that they serve us – we are not theirs by right.”

      Time and again?

      They need it tattooed back to front on their foreheads and a mirror hung permanently in front of their f**king faces (pardon my French Suzanne) to ensure they know exactly WHO the masters are!

    237. Lollysmum says:

      @ Fran
      Ha ha what a joke. SNP have no need of the Weirs money with £3m a year in membership fees coming in from all those 84,000 members. Yeah-read this & weep SLAB :-):-)

      SLAB are offering annual membership at £5 & they are still struggling to recruit.LOL

      @arthur thompson
      Did you mean Watford area. I’m in Luton so feeling a bit isolated from the action.

    238. woosie says:

      Poor Katy, she doesn’t grasp that Scots are deserting Labour in busloads because, due mainly to the decreasing influence of MSM, we now recognise that the big two are identical, simply arguing over the spoils.
      My parents voted Labour all their lives, and died as poor as they were born. Now we see that Westminster will never allow that to change, and are acting to do it ourselves.
      The main impression I took from the clip was that John McKay was gagging to get stuck into her after her ludicrous statement, but then backed out!

    239. Lollysmum says:

      @ Graeme Doig & BBC staffers

      Yes they are complicit. What surprised me was just how little was spent on BBC Scotland when you set it beside the revenue that Scottish license fees generate (correction-were generating)

    240. J. R. Tomlin says:

      Sounds AMAZINGLY like the Democrats in the US. *sigh*

    241. davidb says:

      @david 11:57.

      Agree pretty completely. But who will vote for the truely honest politician? People are resistant to change. They don’t want to hear that the ever rising western standard of living can come to an end. They forget all those civilizations that came before us, and are all just dust and distant memories now.

      @AuldA 1:25

      The utopian vision of mankind being freed from work is never going to happen. The kleptocracy which seems to run just about every place monetises all that freedom and keeps it for itself. The Economist has an article in the current print edition which suggests that in the USA the top 1/10th of the population owns as much wealth as the bottom 90%. This is a record apparently.

      @MikeyPops 12:16

      Google maps. You can walk down just about anywhere from the comfort of your own chair. Looks like a nice street, although it looks like recession hasn’t been too kind to the house valuations ( Zoopla ), not that they seem to change hands much.

      And a general comment. Labour is the problem in Scotland, not the solution. It is no surprise the poorest and most deprived constituencies are held by Labour. They thrive on poverty. It is not in their interest to do anything about it. I do hope they are wiped out next year. But if they are they have to be kicked when they are down. Every place their tentacles reach needs disinfected. They really should be rooted out.

    242. A.N.Surgent says:

      Here`s a site I came across trying to find out who is standing in Kirkcaldy at GE. Lists all constituencies.

      http://ukgeneralelection2015.blogspot.co.uk/p/candidate-selections-for-2015-general.html

    243. Piemonteis says:

      Re: Katy Clark

      I found myself looking at the voting figures for nominating the HQ Labour leader in 2010. I was struck by the fact that, even then, only 38% of Labour members from the N. Ayrshire & Arran constituency voted in the leadership election. That’s compared to an average of around 70-75%. Even in the Glasgow seats with the lowest turnouts, the figure was around 50-60%.

      However, it also seems to be one of the seats with most ballots sent out. Apparently, 569 ballots were sent out to Labour members in North Ayrshire. That’s an extraordinary number considering it was something like 12,500 in all of Scotland.

      Why would they have so many registered members? And why such a low vote? (Most voted D. Milliband by the way).

      If they publish a similar list for the LiS leadership, it could give us an interesting comparison.

      Here’s the link:
      http://www2.labour.org.uk/leadership-clps

    244. crazycat says:

      @ T Jenny

      “Tattie-bogle – that article’s from 2010.”

      That actually makes it worse, I think, to prevent Richard Lochhead from leading the negotiations now; there is a precedent and he has shown what he can do. Cameron was presumably trying to appear reasonable back then, and feels he no longer has to bother.

    245. Rock says:

      manandboy,

      “1 Million elderly can be easily manipulated, because they scare very easily and because they love TV and watch it all the time.”

      “The FEAR of losing their pensions was a HUGE factor for many elderly No voters in Indy.”

      “The SNP IMO simply MUST MUST MUST secure the elderly vote by means of an attractive electoral contract over pensions and Winter Fuel Allowance.”

      The idea that the elderly are easily manipulated and feared losing their pensions is completely false in my view.

      The vast majority of the elderly voted No because they are die hard British nationalists who are very proud of Churchill and the British Empire.

      The vast majority of the elderly are not easily frightened. They are stubborn and selfish. Ironically thanks to the SNP government they are well looked after and didn’t want any change to their lives.

      They have seen it all – the devastation of Scotland under Thatcherism and neo Thatcherism (including 13 years of Labour rule when the rich got richer and the poor got poorer). They know exactly what has happened and what is happening, but they sacrificed the future of the younger generation for their own comfort.

      The SNP should not pamper the elderly. They should work tirelessly to attract working class Labour voters. 40% of them voted Yes. Let us make 80% vote for the SNP in 2015.

    246. Fred says:

      We owe a huge debt to the Weirs, fine folk with their hearts in the right place and their country’s good foremost.

    247. Macart says:

      Courtesy of Shagpile over on NNS, he brought this wee link to me.

      http://www.defensenews.com/article/20141109/DEFREG01/311090024/Britain-Struggles-Costs-New-Frigates

      And yet apparently we let Labour down. Labour needs to get down on its knees and beg forgiveness of the Scottish electorate and that after the most grovelling of abject apologies.

    248. Rock says:

      There are no ‘good’ Labour MPs or MSP’s – not a single one of them supported independence. They were all behind Brown, Darling, Lamont and Murphy in opposing independence by any means possible, that is by mainly outright lies.

      No sympathy vote for any Labour politician in Scotland. Let us get rid of every single one of them.

      Only after independence, we should distinguish between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ Labour politicians. Right now ALL of them are bad for our cause.

    249. Paula Rose says:

      Can I still whip the Scottish branch into shape? Where’s the paperwork? I wanna lead.

    250. handclapping says:

      Vote Labour, get TORY
      Huh, the TORY ought to be in red; doesnt seem to support “font” tag

    251. handclapping says:

      @Paula
      You have to be ever so careful with those lead weighted whips 🙁 Make sure you get a disclaimer first 😉

    252. arthur thomson says:

      Fran – yes that’s Watford just along the m1 from Luton. Drop me an email if you want and maybe we can see if we can set up a wee hub of some sort in the south east.

    253. crazycat says:

      O/T There are currently two people posting on UK Polling Report, confessing to (and attracting pats on the back for) telephone canvassing for Better Together (or possibly political parties).

      One is a Tory (possibly in the south of England, definitely not in Scotland) who reported that the Borders and D&G were very heavily No; the other is a Labour supporter/member from the Bristol area, who found Aberdeen evenly split.

      Presumably they will be busy on their own patches next year, but might return to their activities for 2016. We will just have to out-number them.

      With that in mind for next year, the really pretty low figures for Labour members sent ballots for the 2010 leadership contest, with even fewer bothering to vote, are quite encouraging – as was pointed out, it will be interesting to see how much further they have fallen this time.

      My local branch was apparently abolished by the constituency party due to a dearth of members.

    254. arthur thomson says:

      Davidb – I like the ring of that – ‘Labour is the problem in Scotland not the solution’

    255. Bobby says:

      that lieing bastard skeletor talkin shite on the E B C again

    256. Piemonteis says:

      @ crazycat

      If your local Labour branch was axed for a dearth of members, then that’s hilarious.

      Hopefully, the LiS leadership election will let us see the real number of active Labour members in Scotland. Even if there were as many as 8,000 active members, it should be remembered that 400 of them will be elected Labour representatives (councillors, MPs, MSPs & MEPs). Most of those members probably have their wife enrolled with the party and other family. In fact, councillors and their families probably account for 20% of the Labour party!

    257. fred blogger says:

      arthur
      or ‘Labour is the problem in Scotland, and democracy is the solution’

    258. Paula Rose says:

      Wings in Watford!

    259. arthur thomson says:

      If Murphy gets shoed in then we must constantly remind people that SLAB isn’t Labour, it’s NEW LABOUR with its NEW LABOUR Leader. Working class Tories through and through.

    260. Fiona says:

      Working class Tories through and through.

      Oh, I don’t think “working” is part of the description, really.

    261. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This may be of interest to some.

      Chomsky isn’t the most scintillating speaker who ever lived, but he’s always worth a listen. The guys asking the questions (Leigh French/Gordon Asher) are the editors of ‘Variant’ magazine, which used to be published in Glasgow.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7UtwZD4c-A

    262. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Test – comments disappearing…third attempt…

    263. inky Pic says:

      Labour let Scotland down – end of story!

    264. Lollysmum says:

      @ arther thomson

      It wasn’t Fran responding-it was me trying to be clever & replying to two posters at the same time.

      Going to be a wee hub alright with just 2 of us!

    265. caledonia says:

      The only way is play them at their own game
      SNP need simple list saying don’t vote for us and you lose these benefits

      1-free bus pass
      2- free prescriptions
      3- council tax freeze
      4-free uni
      5-bedroom tax back in

      ITS YOUR CHOICE

    266. Lollysmum says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Snap-my posts keep disappearing too- both here & in Off-Topic. Very frustrating 🙁

    267. crazycat says:

      @ Piemonteis

      That’s what I was told, though not by anyone in the (ex-)branch. It was a unilateral decision, and of course they still wanted the subscriptions handed over. When I originally typed my post I put “death” instead of “dearth”, which isn’t funny, but probably close to the truth.

      I heard another rumour, from a neighbouring constituency, that there they had only 8 members left, which cannot be true since the total of councillors, MSP and MP exceeds that, but I’m sure that within-family recruitment is crucial. That was the case even when membership numbers were fairly healthy. The number of activists is far, far smaller, though most of them will probably make the effort next May.

    268. Cactus says:

      Good early Wednesday morning Scotland.. I took a wander into the south side of ayeGlasgow tonight, randomly checked into The Glad Cafe on Pollockshaws Road, which turned out to be a meet up with Scotlands Green Party and shook hands with the cool Patrick Harvie and met the co.

      Get down to The Glad Café you neighbours, they got it going on..

      Cheers Scotland!
      XX

    269. arranc says:

      Charles Patrick O’Brian joined S.N.P 1959 never voted anything else

    270. Tackety Beets says:

      Just watched a recording of last nights program as above .

      Despite her ” clangers ” Katy at least acknowledges some of S Labour’s problems . Sounded like as if she had a bit more guts she would , as posted already, go Indy or why not join C Fox in SSP .
      Douggie had to get the SNP dig in again , trying hard to change eh ?
      Both candidates talked utter drivel on solutions as Labour in WM are only a fag paper different from the Tories .
      Plus neither explained how SLab can be/ have different structure/ policies from Labour under Millie doon soof ?
      I’m in the dark on how a United party could operate that way .
      They also fail to understand Blair an Broon will not be forgotten . We still clearly remember the loss o 10% tax bracket , Tax On Pensions etc etc

      I suspect Ingerland will also let ’em doon .

      Just as Rev predicted SLab are F@@@@d & meantime , as per Lochead-gate , Scotland is F@@@@@d until GE 2015

    271. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This should be viewed as a companion-piece to the Chomsky interview I linked at 11.16.

      I haven’t even watched it all, but it’s clearly been filmed around the same time, and frequently refers to Chomsky’s answers to French/Asher’s questions:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3y_6aG6bxc

    272. crazycat says:

      @ Tackety Beets

      Katy Clark would need a lot more guts; her parents were both Labour candidates for various things on umpteen occasions (all unsuccessful as far as I know), her grandmother was a long-standing councillor and grande dame of her local party, and her grandfather was one of the first ever Labour MPs. So Katy has a massive historical weight of expectation to throw off; I’m slightly surprised she’s managed to remain one of the Usual Suspects for so long, but perhaps her pedigree protects her to some extent, and makes the party look as if it has some tolerance at least.

      I did briefly hope she would change sides during the referendum, and perhaps inspire others, but it didn’t take long for me to realize that was utterly unrealistic.

    273. Capella says:

      Could it be that Labour has never been “left wing”? Even the post war Atlee administration could be seen as a handy way of getting the workers to accept rationing and austerity while the infrastructure was rebuilt. Gaitskill? Wilson? Callaghan? Blair?
      I don’t think you could accuse any of them of being socialist.
      They’ve given up even pretending.

    274. Famous15 says:

      “It was about reclaiming freedom,it was about being citizens not subjects!”

      Angela Merkel on the significance of the fall of the Berlin Wall.

      “Angela,I share your thoughts ,please share mine on Scottish independence.”

    275. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Jim Kelman, on ‘Self Determination’. These are the comments referred to by Chomsky/French/Asher in my previous links, above.

      Hoots all! Nicht-nicht!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq3Yyq1uRFo

    276. Democracy Reborn says:

      The only surprising thing about Katy Clark’s comment is that it was publicly uttered on national TV. But she expresses a Scottish Labour mindset that many people have recognised for a long time. And happily, as the referendum showed, increasing numbers of Labour voters recognise it too.

      I’ve heard of the electorate wanting to change politicians, but when politicians want to change the electorate….. deary me.

    277. Oneironaut says:

      Hmmm…
      Katy Clark has her office here in my home town.

      I used to think she might be different to some of the other grasping troughers in the party.
      But she effectively destroyed any last vestiges of respect I had for her during the independence campaign.

      Seems like she’s finally accepted the fact her party has been corrupted beyond all hope of redemption and decided to just get what she can before it all collapses…

    278. yesindyref2 says:

      YESvember on ITV4. Very subliminal, they’re getting the idea, but a bit late!

    279. Independence is coming, but I fear it won’t happen until the North of England, get’s the investment needed to compete with Scotland a portion of which the Scot’s will have to pay for. Labour are only likely to survive in Scotland if it splits into two. Independent Labour, which could be honest with the electorate and Unionist Labour that continues to show contempt to Scotland.

    280. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Capella

      Credit where it’s due : the Attlee government introduced the NHS, modern welfare state & expanded access to higher education to those from modest backgrounds who would never have had the chance previously. Even Gaitskell & Callaghan were light years away politically from Blair, Brown & the mediocrities of the present.

      It used to be said that Labour was a social democratic party with socialists in it. Now it’s not even a social democratic party.

    281. yesindyref2 says:

      Since the NO vote, attempts continue to grind Scotland into submission. The latest from the IFS: “Scotland is ‘£1bn a year better off due to Barnett funding flaw'” according to the Herald.

    282. yesindyref2 says:

      Since the NO vote in the referendum, attempts continue by all and sundry to grind Scotland into submission. The latest is from the IFS again, according to the Herald:

      “Scotland is ‘£1bn a year better off due to Barnett funding flaw'”

      No comment, I did that in the Herald.

    283. Roll_On_2014 says:

      I came across this wee article showing just what NuLabour wanted to do with Scotland back in 2010.

      Aye they wanted to turn Scotland into a political Laboratory to test their policies before introducing them sooth of the border.

      Let’s not forget that Murphy and D Miliband are both products from the same ‘network’ (sic) as far as Teflon Tony is concerned… They both have their heads stuck up Teflon Tony’s rectum, so much so, that they could not see daylight… even if they wanted to.

      Just one other thought, did Maggie Thatcher not do the same with the Poll Tax before introducing it to the rest of the UK 1 year later.

      It appears that the WM establishment mindset has not changed over the years.

    284. yesindyref2 says:

      Thanks for the links by the way, to the T26 (macart) and Fracking (A.N.Surgent), these bits of news that don’t appear in regular media are great to put together postings in places they should appear.

    285. Ken500 says:

      Scotland is £20Biillion worst off as part of the UK, (wrong policies) than the rest of the UK (borrows and spends more),

      Scotland has lost £4Billion+ in Oil tax revenues a year since 2011Budget Osbourne/Alexander put Oil up 11% – £2Billion – now up to 90%. = £16Billion+

      Scotland has to pay £4Billion+ repayments on money it doesn’t borrow or spend. UK Treasury doesn’t pay it off the debt/deficit but spends it.

      UK raises £490Billion in taxes (13/14) UK Gov website – Scotland raises £59Billion (12/13) pro rata more. Scotland raises enough for all it’s needs and would be in surplus with different policies. Ie save £1.5Billion on (useless) Trident/illegal wars (causing migration in Europe). Save £1.5Billion on tax on ‘loss leading’ cheap alcohol. The £4Billion repayments on money Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. Could be spent paying down any debt it aquires? from Westminster not spent by Westminster. £4Billion+ has been lost from Oil revenues = £10Billion+

      UK Treasury borrows £110Billion a year an spends it on the private sector in the rest of the UK. Pro rata £10Billion more than Scotland. = £10Billion. Total £20Billion 1/5 – 20% of Scotland’s revenues.

      UK Treasury spends £600Billion a year £490 raised in taxes and £110Billion borrowed. UK Treasury has cut taxes so much especially for the wealthy (them) the debt/deficit can not be paid back. The debt repayments are £52Billion a year and rising (total waste of money). The tax take has fallen £110Billion a year and Westminster is still borrowing £110Billion a year.

      Scotland would be in surplus, without Westminster mismanagement and every on would be fed. It is wrong, immoral, illegal and costs more to be sanctioning people and having them walking to food banks because of Banking fraud. Most of Westminster politicians should be in jail.

      Why anyone would vote Labour/Unionist, who caused the Mess and ConDems who continue it, is a mystery. McCrone Report, banking fraud, illegal wars. Westminster are liars. Thry can’t count or read. Balance sheet. The sell off of public assets eg Royal Mail, HS2 with no viable business case (not enough passengers) Westminster and associates misuse £Millions of public money from these projects. Osbourne’s best man, brother-in-law and father-in-law made £Millions from these project while vulnerable people starve.

      60 year old people etc. who can’t get a job are being sanctioned, and made to work for nothing on temporary contracts, while the UK Gov funds these firms. It is illegal and against human rights. People should live with dignity.

      Unionist Politican free by 2016
      Vote SNP/Alliance 7/5/15

      Independence by 2020

    286. Capella says:

      @Democracy Reborn
      True but the welfare state wasn’t designed to be redistributive but to be self-financing. Post war tax levels on the wealthiest were aroind 98% and still around 85% on the top rate till the Thatcher era, regardless of Tory/Labour.
      Then the Tories became neo-liberal then Labour followed suit. More to do with PR and managing public perceptions for personal gain? There was a lot of public capital to be grabbed.

    287. Capella says:

      Also, there are stats which show that tax avoidance costs around £1.2 tr since the Thatcher era i.e. enough to wipe out the debt. But neither Labour nor Tory do anything about offshore banking fraud, or any type of banking fraud.
      Sorry, I don’t have the reference at the mo.
      Point is, we the taxpayers shovel vast amounts of money into private pockets whilst being lectured on being lazy and profligate.

    288. davidb says:

      @ myself last night

      That Economist article. Its the top 1/1000. 1/10 of 1%. They also reckon that 16000 families – or 1/10000 of the populus are worth an average $371 million and that they own 11.2% of the total wealth.

    289. Ken500 says:

      Scotland (12/13) raises £53Billion+ in taxes (+ revenues into UK Exchequer from commercial activities in Scotland through UK London based HQ’s. (tax/vat/tax evasion – £6Billion?) £4Billion+ repayments Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend and not repaid by UK Treasury, but spent. Scotland has been in surplus for years but Westminster has squandered all the Oil Reveues, on illegal wars and Banking fraud and tax evasion. Thatcher cancelled a pipe line and wasted £Billions of Gas. The Gas was/is burnt off. Scotland could have had a £220 Billion Oil Fund.

      Helicopters are falling from the North Sea because of lack compliance with proper Health & Safety Laws. There is evidence of misconduct but there has been no Inquiry and people have died. Westminster refused permission.

      Westminster Gov holds Scotland back in every way it can. No Scottish representative for the EU fishing talks but an unelected Lord goes instead. Yet it would be better for the rest of the UK to have a more prosperous neighbour.

    290. davidb says:

      Aaaargh. 0.01%. 1/100 of 1%.

      And thats me sober too!

    291. Ken500 says:

      5 People in the UK own more than 1/5 – 20% of people. The wealthiest wealth has increased 15% a year. Banker/Politicians/right wing media owners etc who caused the Crash wealth has increased. 1 in 39 people in London are $millionaires. Private Funds and Property Companies are being subsidied with £Billions of public money in housing benefit etc. The disproportionate higher amounts of public money spent in London S/E means there is lower unemployment and less austerity. Westminster politicians can get more votes from a higher density of population.

    292. davidb says:

      Starting again. 1/10 of 1% own the same as the bottom 90%. 1/100 of 1% owns the 11.2%.

      Oh heres the link. Should have done that the first time.

      http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21631129-it-001-who-are-really-getting-ahead-america-forget-1

      Maybe I should only try to do numbers when I’m wide awake. And a Duns is the equivalent in its day of calling someone Einstein in a disparaging way. After Duns Scotus. Another Scots genius.

    293. Macart says:

      @yesindyref2

      This is where I think the soon to be launched Scottish Evening news, revamped NNS and and Bella can, with our support, get stuck right in. World news and national news that affects the lives of people in Scotland. Big stories which impact all of us on both the political and economic fronts delivered with basically public education of the world, the country they live in, in mind.

      Imagine if you will, a newscast which featured even just the stories we’ve found of interest over the past few weeks, with regular commentary and punditry from guests from these sites as well as those from political parties not too chicken to participate. Y’know being asked hard questions without the aid really friendly interviewers.

      How is Scotland’s last remaining yard going to survive under a union which promised them guaranteed continued preference, only to have second thoughts when the vote was secured? When was the agreement for fracking licences struck? Before or after the vote? Did this secure significant and willing aid in the campaign from the corporate world where previously they had been non committal? Or, Mr Brown were you aware that the promises you were making were in no way sanctioned by individual party or indeed parliament in general and that you were effectively defrauding the Scottish electorate in an historic vote?

      Bit better than wean rushed to hospital with pot stuck on head or stop press – Forfar four, East Fife five (actually that might stop press). 🙂

    294. Nana Smith says:

      Slab are merly obeying their masters in England. They must follow the rules and keep Scotland in its box, only allowed out to vote at election time.

      Lets see now what have labour done to Scotland.

      Covered up the Mcrone report
      Annexed Scottish waters
      Vote rigging a labour speciality
      Rejected an oil fund set up
      Dalgety bay contamination
      Refusal to support SNP policy when proven to be beneficial to Scots
      Aiding the bbc in cover up of abuse. Watch my back and I’ll watch yours seems to be the way.
      blair 100 yr d notices. What could be so very bad that requiries a d notice of 100years.

      These are just a few we already know about. What have I missed out? With independence we get to find out the rest which are no doubt explosive and that is why they fought so dirty alongside the tory scum to keep it all hidden.

      Get posters made up and make sure voters know what labour have done to Scotland and will continue to do.

    295. starlaw says:

      Scotland will let US down , where have I heard that before . . Adolf Hitler said that about the German people in 1945

    296. Edward says:

      Slightly O/T
      Was wondering if anyone caught the utter garbage that was spouted on GMS this morning from some PR person from Heathrow.

      Apparently there is a conference in Glasgow today to discuss improving direct air links for Scotland to the rest of the world

      Naturally they invited (or were they?) representatives from Heathrow and Gatwick to put their case forward.

      Gormless Gary, let the Heathrow guy spout that it was in Scotland’s interests for Heathrow to expand and for Scot’s to fly through Heathrow.

      Gary didn’t bother questioning that it would actually be better for Scots to fly directly!

    297. A.N.Surgent says:

      If anyone has the time or inclination to watch, there`s a powerful documentary running on RT today. American journalist in Donetsk. If people think the state media push the establishment line on only uk matters this documentary should give you a different view.

      This link is a taster.

      http://rt.com/news/204131-american-journalist-ukraine-donetsk/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

    298. Jim Thomson says:

      way O/T

      Rosetta progress live on http://rosetta.esa.int/ now

    299. Dorothy Devine says:

      It makes a cracking slogan though,

      ” Let’s Let Labour Down”

      or

      ” Make Labour History” –

      shortly followed by

      “Make the Mainstream Media History”

    300. chalks says:

      Support for Kez

      Name: Johann Lamont
      Email: Johann [dot] Lamont [at] labour [dot] org
      Why are you supporting Kezia? (optional): The Scots are not genetically made up to govern themselves and Kezia is a robot, so fit’s the bill to govern us.
      Postcode: RE43 4TW
      I would like to volunteer for the campaign: Yes
      Telephone (optional): HELP ME

    301. Graeme Doig says:

      Edward

      I caught some of the interview at the same time as getting the kids out the door. I’m not sure about all the in’s and out’s of the issue to be honest but certainly sounded like more flannel from another of our friend’s in the south of england.

      It’s hard to be Scottish right now. So much suspicion and contempt for the whole bloody lot of them down there.

    302. Famous15 says:

      “Scotland apologises to Labour for letting it down”

      Well? Katy Clark,will that do or do we prostrate ourselves before our Imperial Masters?

    303. galamcennalth says:

      @Edward

      I heard that. You can’t blame the Heathrow guy for trying sell his wares, but the way the BBC just let him away with it unchallenged was typical. Pathetic. Can the BBC not find some real journalists from somewhere? Oh wait a minute, journalism was removed from their remit.

    304. AuldA says:

      @Jim Thomson: thanks for the link!

      @DavidB:
      The utopian vision of mankind being freed from work is never going to happen. The kleptocracy which seems to run just about every place monetises all that freedom and keeps it for itself.

      Ergo the only way to get rid of this is to get rid of money. In a society were every reasonable need is slaked by a three-hour work per week, everything can be free. Under the assumption that people consume only what’s necessary with a little extra from time to time, this is clearly viable.

    305. yesindyref2 says:

      Macart
      Yes, it will be very useful. I’d still need the source if I was posting it elsewhere, to “verify” it. I was challenged on the Type 26 news a short time ago, and was able to quote enough text to find the article (we’re not allowed foreign URLs apart from gov ones).

      Yes, the news about the T26 will be worrying. There’s still the 3 OPVs for the moment, what happens then – perhaps Ferguson can pick up some workers, but it leaves a lot left over. Type 26 would be a fair bit better than FREMM apparently though there were still some design issues (as always). I don’t really undestand it as T26 is abot the same price as FREMM, unless the price is going up. Hopefullly it’ll all go smoothly.

    306. Macca73 says:

      Nana Smith says:

      12 November, 2014 at 8:18 am

      Slab are merly obeying their masters in England. They must follow the rules and keep Scotland in its box, only allowed out to vote at election time.

      Lets see now what have labour done to Scotland.

      Covered up the Mcrone report
      Annexed Scottish waters
      Vote rigging a labour speciality
      Rejected an oil fund set up
      Dalgety bay contamination
      Refusal to support SNP policy when proven to be beneficial to Scots
      Aiding the bbc in cover up of abuse. Watch my back and I’ll watch yours seems to be the way.
      blair 100 yr d notices. What could be so very bad that requiries a d notice of 100years.

      These are just a few we already know about. What have I missed out? With independence we get to find out the rest which are no doubt explosive and that is why they fought so dirty alongside the tory scum to keep it all hidden.

      Get posters made up and make sure voters know what labour have done to Scotland and will continue to do.

      How about steal 6000 miles of sea coastline so that when you hit a golf ball it’s in english waters of the coast of St. Andrews!! Thank you Mr. Brown Grrrrr!

    307. Training Day says:

      @Edward

      I heard the advertisement for Heathrow too. Amid the slurry of London-centric, Anglo-centric, Establishment-centric guff which is the staple output of Radio ‘Scotland’, the Heathrow promo was just the latest subject to make you feel we’ve voluntarily given away our culture, our identity and our self-respect – and for what? Thruppence hapenny here, tuppence there.

      It’s truly depressing on days like this. To remain sane, you have to try and believe the vote was rigged. The alternative – that the majority really are that cowed – is too awful to contemplate.

    308. John Young says:

      David Miller @BBCDavidMiller Edinburgh, Scotland
      Waiting for @AlexSalmond at Bute House in Edinburgh, ahead of one of his last news conferences as First Minister… why are we, the Scottish people unable to watch or listen to this? Imagine this happening in any other country.

    309. Stoker says:

      Nana Smith says:
      12 November, 2014 at 8:18 am
      Slab are merely obeying their masters in England.
      They must follow the rules and keep Scotland in its box.

      Lets see now what have labour done to Scotland.

      Covered up the McCrone report
      Annexed Scottish waters
      Vote rigging a labour speciality
      Rejected an oil fund set up
      Dalgety bay contamination
      Refusal to support SNP policy when proven to be beneficial to Scots
      Aiding the bbc in cover up of abuse.
      Blair’s 100 yr d notices.
      _________________________
      Add to that:

      Deliberately failing to vote to abolish the bedroom tax.
      Worked with the Tories to destroy Scotland’s future via the referendum.
      They support and promote London’s weapons of mass destruction being stored and situated on Scottish soil.

      C’mon folks, lets get adding to the (s)hit list.

    310. Nana Smith says:

      @Stoker

      Excellent. Lets fill a wee red book and get it out there.

    311. Helena Brown says:

      Macart and Stoker off to an SNP meeting on the 16th I will take a note and pass on that with the suggestion they use it on a poster, may I suggest everyone else do the same. Time to stop being the nice people let us get down and dirty, politics are not clean or unimportant they are as important as life, with the power Politicians hold over us which they forget we give them.

    312. Helena Brown says:

      Edward, stopped listening to BBC propaganda years ago but suggestion for everyone, use Amsterdam as a hub rather than Heathrow, I have only once had the misfortune in recent times to have to use Gatwick and will never use it again. Rude objectionable people and that is just the BA Staff.

    313. De Valera says:

      I forgot to add that Scotland voted Labour in 1970, 1979, 1983 and 1987 as well. I don’t think there were many Labour governments during those years. If people fall for this guff again, we will be treated with the contempt we deserve.

      Please Scotland, don’t allow the Labour party to let you down again.

    314. gerry parker says:

      Yep – let’s let them down with a BUMP.

    315. Nana Smith says:

      http://rt.com/on-air/rt-uk-air/

      Interesting stuff on here.

    316. Proud Cybernat says:

      Breaking News for Katy Clark: Scotland doesn’t mind getting Tory Governments. They proved that much by voting No in the Referendum. What the Scottish voting public want and need are Scottish MPS that will actually do a job in holding them to account. Labour simply turns on its side and waits for its turn in power. Not good enough, Katy.

    317. A.N.Surgent says:

      Nana Smith

      At one time academics and scientific bodies could be trusted but it seems no more. Pedalling the oil companies and multi-national agenda for the benefit of the few.

      The obscene and indecent haste for extracting every last drop of the Earths resources before tea time on Thursday is beyond my understanding. Future generations, if there are any, are doomed to live in misery.

    318. chalks says:

      @A.N.Surgent

      Did you ever consider that the extraction of these resources is merely to get as much money as possible…when the oil runs out (it never really can run out, due to them never being able to extract 100% of the wells, it’s usually closer to 40% of the well) they will suddenly develop electric cars to run very well or will ‘discover’ technology that utilises magnetics ‘mag lev’ trains are already being used in Japan and require only electricity to run them.

      The fact is, we need oil to create things, not to get around the place…but you won’t hear ANYONE in big business/governments saying as much….it was oil companies that kiboshed the electric car in the 60’s…wonder why?

      The oil required to create things in this world is no where near the amount of oil required to run industries.

      It really is as simple as the rich want to get richer and the belief that the world would collapse (it wouldn’t, it would just result in seismic shift in peoples beliefs) should we halt our reliance on oil.

      The technology to operate without oil already exists.

    319. Macca73 says:

      @Nana Smith My apologies, didn’t spot that!

      The NHS sell off started by Andy Burnham and continued by the Tories must be one.

    320. AuldA says:

      @chalks:

      The big oil companies have certainly patented (or bought patents) on many key technologies for the no-more-oil future. It would be asinine to think they’ll all close the day the last drop of oil runs out.

    321. A.N.Surgent says:

      chalks

      Absolutely its for the rich, renewable energy is the way forward, but as long as big business runs governments and there is money to be made we are tied to fossil fuels until they deem otherwise or there are enough people ready to say enough is enough.

      Sadly with debt becoming more and more part of day to day life, most people are just trying to survive. Debt is slavery.

    322. chalks says:

      @AuldA

      But many of these technologies aren’t that difficult to master and in many cases result in ‘free’ energy.

      That’s exactly what they don’t want.

    323. Sinky says:

      John Young @ 9.55 says:

      Why is Alex Salmond’s Conference speech on Friday not on the main TV channels particularly BBC Scotland 1 is showing a repeat at the time. Not many will hunt out the Parliament Channel.

    324. Stoker says:

      Slabber not only let Scotland down, Slabber let Scotland down
      with one almighty crash – a Crash Gordon to be precise.

      We must ensure that Slabber have shat on Scotland for the very
      last time. Slabber must be exposed for what they are – ("Tractor" - Ed)s.

      And lets not forget, Slabber scum are not the only ("Tractor" - Ed)s fond
      of bed hopping, LieDems also know their way around the Tory bed.

      Scotland must rid herself of the LibLab ("Tractor" - Ed)s.
      Self-absorbed sewer dwelling scum who are destroying Scotland

    325. Nana Smith says:

      As its a slow news day. Interview with oor Alex…

      https://www.holyrood.com/articles/inside-track/salmonds-leap-interview-fm

    326. Stoker says:

      Another one for Nana Smith’s list:

      They worked side-by-side and hand-in-hand with BNP activists throughout the referendum campaign.

    327. Capella says:

      Another one for Nana Smith’s list:
      Labour went into doalition with the TORIES! to prevent the SNP. which had the largest number of councillors, from forming an administration in local authorities. Aberdeen City and Aberdeenshire are two but there were many others.
      Liberals, of course, already were in coalition with the Tories.

    328. Robert Peffers says:

      @Edward says:12 November, 2014 at 8:52 am:

      “Was wondering if anyone caught the utter garbage that was spouted on GMS this morning from some PR person from Heathrow.”

      Indeed it was a load of utter claptrap and Gary was at his usual utterly gormless best. Anyone with but two braincells to work with could have exposed the Heathrow Rep up as a clown, anyone that is except Gary. Scotland needs rid of such propaganda pushing BBC numpties.

    329. YESGUY says:

      Nana 12.24pm

      Great read Nana. A wee reminder that wee Eck will still be around.

      Another education Nana. xx

    330. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalth says: 12 November, 2014 at 9:32 am:

      “Can the BBC not find some real journalists from somewhere?”

      The BBC, even BBC Scotland, have always had some really great journalists. Trouble is there is far too much jobs for the boys/girls in the BBC. Why else is Derek Bateman now setting up his own opposition to the BBC? Why else do we hear/see very little of Isabel Fraser these days. Izzy is one of the finest broadcasting journalists in the entire UK.

      Her downfall was to actully be a great journalist and put that wee nyaff, Ian Davidson, exactly in his place. Davidson complained and Isabel is now hardly ever brought out, dusted down, and allowed to speak except to do such important things as the Invertottie Autumn Garden Festival.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6CO-dnttU

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnUuwIgqWO4

    331. Nana Smith says:

      @ YESGUY

      I enjoyed it too. I hope he’s going for a Westminster seat. I would love to see Danny the Muppet brought down.

    332. gorbalito says:

      As long as we have a mass of millions of people who’ll believe anything you tell them, then there are few things with more money-making potential for the greedy (including MPs ) to use to their advantage. And they have the control of the mediums which convince the ignorant, the gullible and the stupid, especially during a referendum.

    333. OscarDilettante says:

      It is worth noting that the Labour party is trying to frame the General Election as a choice between Labour and Tory.
      Or as the rest of us would understand “between tory and tory”
      Don’t let them fool you!

    334. joey b goode says:

      Here’s an idea for Jim Murphy’s next speech. “My fellow Scots, ask not what the labour party can do for you, ask what you can do for the labour party.. don’t let us down”. That might work.

    335. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood said:
      This should be viewed as a companion-piece to the Chomsky interview I linked at 11.16.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3y_6aG6bxc

      Also with a dictionary by your side and your finger on the pause button. 🙂

    336. Peter Mirtitsch says:

      Katy Clark is my local MP, and TBH I am ashamed. Earlier in the year, after the famous train wreck of Johann Lamont’s interview about SLAB tax proposals, that she had supposedly been involved with, I emailed Katy three or four times, as part of the WOS inspired “ask your MP/MSP” and eventually got a reply back, with a back handed reference to the fact that obviously others had been emailing questions.

    337. Stan Free says:

      Of course it’s SCOTLAND who let LABOUR down, not Labour who let Scotland down

    338. Paul McCabe says:

      She not only acknowledges there is a democratic deficiency, she is happy for it when it boosts her party’s chances of power in WM. Typical self serving red tory.

    339. kestral says:

      “vote for us to keep out the Tories’ mantra”

      Just as well the SNP have said they would happily work with labour – will never work with the tories and hence a vote for the SNP is a vote to allow the SNP to hold any labour government to account to get the best for scotland

      poor old labour must feel they get out-manouvered at every turn 🙂



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