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Wings Over Scotland


Where We Stand Now

Posted on January 05, 2025 by

Nobody really answered the question in this article from a few days ago. A few of the dimmer bulbs in the indy movement have been getting over-excited at what are still currently a couple of outlier polls from fringe polling companies, which suggest that the 2026 election could unexpectedly return a pro-indy majority due to the Unionist vote being split four ways in the wake of UK Labour’s implosion in government.

That scenario depends on all sorts of dubious propositions, but in any event what none of them have addressed is what that would change even if it did happen, given that Holyrood has a pro-indy majority RIGHT NOW (and has done so on every single day since the indyref more than a decade ago) and it’s produced nothing whatsoever in terms of movement towards independence by any possible measure.

And it occurred to us that we had genuinely no idea what the SNP’s current official indy strategy is, because the party’s been in such farcical chaos and turmoil ever since Nicola Sturgeon’s sudden resignation. So we thought we should go and check.

To be honest, we’re not much the wiser for having read it.

The SNP’s own description of its independence strategy as of today, 5 January 2025, was published on 15 October 2023, almost 15 months ago. The first seven paragraphs can be summarised as “Westminster bad”.

No disagreement there. So what’s the plan?

Well, they DIDN’T win a majority of seats at the subsequent general election, but technically the page doesn’t say “in 2024”, so we suppose we could assume that as the document is still on the website as current, the position still holds for ANY “General Election in Scotland”. But then it gets a bit confusing.

Because the SNP already held a large majority of Scottish seats at the time when that paragraph was written, and it neither began independence negotiations nor set up a Constitutional Convention. Indeed, given that the party’s conference had committed to setting up such a convention in January 2020 – half a decade ago – it’s unclear why it still hasn’t happened. So what would have changed?

The next paragraph is interestingly worded.

The MANIFESTO will demand that, will it? How’s that demand going? As far as we’re aware the SNP has not actually made that demand of the UK government since the election last July, and the response if it did is not difficult to predict.

These “demands” are equally hollow and futile, but somewhat more to the point it’s difficult to see what they’re doing on a page called “Our strategy for winning Scotland’s independence”, since they all relate to devolution. A casual observer might therefore reasonably interpret them as an admission of defeat.

Ooh! “Consideration” of a de-facto referendum! That’ll have them quaking! But again, we’re not sure how this actually differs to the position now. Wasn’t that policy already thoroughly “considered” at the “special independence conference” back in June 2023, more than a year and a half ago?

Where it was booted down the road to that October’s full conference.

That conference decided the official strategy:

And that link leads… back to the document we’re talking about in this article. In other words, the SNP’s current strategy if nothing changes is to reconsider the strategy it already considered and arrived at a conclusion on and which is its current strategy.

(The SNP’s talk of alliances and agreements with other pro-indy parties, incidentally, is perhaps best understood in the context of comments from a party source in today’s Sunday Times.)

We already know the current strategy (making empty demands that Westminster does what we want, and then meekly shutting up when they refuse) doesn’t work – it’s been tried for over a decade – and won’t work in 2026. So the earliest possible election at which any new “reconsidered” strategy could be tested is the UK general election due in mid-2029, four and a half years away.

Which is handy, as the SNP’s strategy is already behind schedule.

The year being referred to in that paragraph is of course 2023, but if there’s been a “Scotland-wide independence campaign” launched in either 2023 or 2024, we must have blinked and missed it, along with the bit where the SNP worked “in partnership with Yes groups and organisations” and promoted “pro-independence voices from all sectors of Scottish society”.

But did they try anything else?

Ah. That didn’t go brilliantly, did it? Perhaps next time round, they could try doing it in big block capitals and underlining it. It seems to be about the limit of their imagination.

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Ian Brotherhood

‘…words to that effect’ pretty much sums them up.

What a shower.

🙁

Campbell Clansman

In the 2014 Referendum, Indy got 44.7% “Yes.”
The average of the 2024 polls on Indy show Indy getting–about 44.7%.
No progress in public opinion.
Politically, the SNP is a bust on Indy (albeit successful in lining their pockets and keeping their jobs), and the fringe Indy parties are going nowhere.
That’s the Reality.

Last edited 1 month ago by Campbell Clansman
Geri

Where were the polls sitting prior to 2014?

45% -47% isn’t a bad starting point before a campaign isn’t even launched. What unionist roasters really should concentrate on, but never seem to do, is that it’s not going drastically down is it?

Tick tock…

Campbell Clansman

“Geri,” you outdid yourself with a three-sentence-long comment that’s laughably stupid on three different levels.
“45%-47% isn’t a bad starting point”–the starting point is 44.7%, not 45-47%.
“before a campaign isn’t even launched”–Uh, the Indy campaign has been going on for more than 30 years. Didn’t you notice?
“[the poll numbers aren’t] going drastically down”– I.e., “We aren’t losing by more than we did 10 years ago.” Now there’s a stirring endorsement of the Indy movement!

Geri

The 2014 indyref is outdated now. Do events not change in your wee world? Does time stand still? In fact, don’t answer that, Yoons are perpetually stuck in a time warp where the empire still exists.

For the rest of us tho a lot of shit has changed. Brexshit is one for a start & so has the landscape outside of little Englandshire as well as inside it. All that contempt in Westminster blows the theory we are valued so they can’t use that one again..

The next generation grows up who will have missed indyref 2014 & you can ignore SNP misfortunes – the question of independence is to everyone in Scotland regardless of their political party of choice.

Neil Singleton

So what was the result of the De Facto referendum on 4th July 2024. Best out of 5 then?

Mia

Let’s see:

Total electorate in Scotland: 4,078,398

Turnout: 2,414,810 (59%)

Votes for labour: 851,897
Votes for SNP: 724,758
Votes for Conservatives: 307,344
Votes for liberal (un)Democrats: 234,228
Votes for Reform UK: 167,979
Votes for Greens: 92,685
Votes for Alba: 11,784
Votes for Independents: 9,782

Votes not cast: 1,663,588

Votes for the majority party (Labour): 851,897

It seems that “none of the above” won.

A significant number of those 1,663,588 who did not cast a vote did not do so as a direct rejection of the Westminster parliament and the UK political system.

What happened in 2019?
the turnout in UK GE 2019 in Scotland was 68.1% (2,759,061 out of a total electorate of 4,053,140). The SNP got 1,242,380 votes at that election, compared to the figure of 1,294,079 voters who did not cast a vote.

Let’s look at 2017:
Total electorate: 3,988,490
Turnout: 2,649,695 (66.4%)
Vote for the majority party (SNP): 977,569
Electorate who did not cast a vote: 1,338,795

Let’s remember that the political fraud Sturgeon refused to campaign on independence during 2017. Let’s also remember that by then, many pro-independence supporters were already sick of waiting for 2 whole years for the SNP “indy warriors” in Westminter, the infamous 56 to get up their arses and do something.

Now compare that to 2015:
Total electorate: 4,094,784
Turnout: 2,910,465 (71.1%)
Electorate who did not cast a vote: 1,184,319
Votes for the majority party (SNP): 1,454,436

The number of people refusing to cast a vote has gone from 1,184,319 in 2015 to an astonishing 1,663,588 in 2024.

Do you see an emerging pattern?

The figure of disenfranchised yes voters and people who is sick of Westminster politics is increasing. When you have already almost double of people refusing to endorse ANY party with their vote compared to the number of people endorsing the majority party, can you actually continue talking about a “majority” or “democracy”?

You can only do so if you deliberately ignore the majority who has refused to endorse the political system at all. But, is that wise?

Will they continue to talk about majorities if the turnout in a GE falls below 50%

There is more than one way to skin a cat. If the SNP refuses to act as a pro-independence party, maybe it is time to bring the whole rotten edifice down and the way to go is by refusing to vote.

Campbell Clansman

In short, in 2024, about 736,000 voted for the (nominally) Indy parties (SNP and Alba)–about 30% of those voting, and about 18% of those eligible to vote.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Indy, is it, moonhowler Mia?

Mia

Oh for goodness sake. What part of “there is more than one way to skin a cat” or “to bring the whole rotten edifice down by refusing to vote” did you not understand?

Who gives a shit anymore about how many votes pro-indy parties get in a UK GE or do not get when the voters might have just found a way to explicitly reject the entire political system?

Hasn’t even occur to you that many of those ex SNP voters the SNP has lost between 2015 and 2024 do no longer trust any party who continues to take a seat in Westminster?

Do you seriously think that independence supporters are going to continue endorsing a flawed system after they saw that sending what they thought was the mother of all anti-union majorities achieved the square root of Fkall?

Who is the “moonhowler” here, me who is carefully watching the increase of disenfranchised pro independence voters election on election, or you, who is boasting of a “majority” of just above 20% of the electorate?

James Gardner

The fact that there is a large number of non-voting electorate yet the SNP still trying to get so called soft no voters to come round to voting for Scottish Independence. The layers of deception are beginning to peel off…….

Mia

The layers of deception are beginning to peel off”

Absolutely. I agree 100% on the above.

What I am not sure I agree with is with your comment that the SNP is trying to get soft no voters to vote for independence.

Since 14 November 2014 the SNP has not campaigned for independence at all. The SNP only mentions the word independence as a meaningless electioneering/carrot dangling exercise to keep the yes vote tied in.

If they are seeking to attract soft no voters is only so they cast their vote for the SNP. Since Sturgeon took over, the SNP leadership’s exclusive goal is to win elections. No voters have been used by the SNP leadership as a convenient excuse to not pursue or campaign for independence.

I distinctively remember the political fraud in 2015 and 2016 trying to deflect criticisms for her inaction and disgraceful misuse of the 56 MP majority by claiming that, because no voters had also cast their vote for the SNP, the SNP vote could not be interpreted as a pro-indy vote.

Campbell Clansman

After 30+ years of agitating, only 18% of eligible Scottish voters voted for Indy parties in 2024.

Geri

They’re not interested in Independence. If they had 99% of the entire electorate voting for them they’d still bottle it.

We only have to look at their history in power. They had a thumping triple mandate & then immediately back peddled looking for ways to void their own mandates & all while sitting across from the most incompetent PMs Westminster has ever seen…

1. Wait until Brexit vote.
2. Wait until we see what the deal is.
3. Let’s wait until we actually Brexshit.
4. Let’s consider a ppls 2nd vote & look like morons trying to reverse a democratic vote.
5. Okay, let’s just wait until Nicola decides for everyone. She has a plan.
6. Let’s ask the English SP?!!
7. Let’s wait until Indy is over 60% in the polls – consecutively, until the ends of time.
8. Okay, fck it! I’ve a new hobby horse. TRA is where it’s at. I’ll just use my indy majority & give it to the Green wackadoos manifesto to make us both unelectable going forward…

Enter Ash Regan for leadership –

Hi everyone, vote for me to have every single election a plebiscite… I’ll put ppl into their proper portfolios & be upfront & transparent to progress we’re making to the public. I’ll also put TRA bullshit to people’s assemblies. Let the ppl decide…

*Booooo! Hissssss…get her off! I’m scared for my safety!*

As everyone in the SNP let it be known they were really devolution it’s & Scotland wasn’t ready – so basically confirming what we all knew – fck all done behind the scenes or otherwise.

Under Sturgeon they’ve been completely captured & so has the membership. That was patently obvious too when Angus & Chris presented Plan B & it was completely booed off stage at conference. That was 2018.

The SNP are dead. Sturgeon killed it. I wish they’d just fuck off & ppl would stop giving them attention. They were never interested in Indy under Sturgeon, who only ever approved fuckwits docile to her, & Salmond coming back to put his foot down had all the rats conspire against him.

They won’t change. They won’t turn themselves around. They won’t achieve anything. They could do so now but choose not to. They didn’t even have the brains to organise themselves before the last GE & make a final stand before they were booted anyway.

Cowardly custards. The have the right colour rosette.

Last edited 1 month ago by Geri
Peter A Bell

Unsurprisingly, Campbell Clansman misses the main reason your comment “45% -47% isn’t a bad starting point” ill-thought. It isn’t a particularly good starting point at all. At best, it is no better than the ~20% starting point for the 2014 referendum.

The reason is that conducting a single-issue political campaign is very much like climbing a mountain. Think of that initial 20% as sea-level. In the period between late 2011 and summer 2014, we traversed the approaches and foothills of that mountain. We’d reached the point at which totally different techniques were required. We’d gone through the hillwalking stage and done a bit of rock-climbing. Now, the real mountaineering began.

Or rather, it didn’t. It turned out our guides were afraid of heights, didn’t know a thing about mountaineering, and weren’t equipped for it in any case.

Our starting point now is not on the plains and rolling hills. We start at the base of an increasingly steep cliff. We need the right skills, techniques and equipment to tackle the climb ahead.

We won’t reach the summit. There is almost always a point at which the mountain defeats us. There are always some voters who simply will not be persuaded. Our task is to reach the highest point possible. There is no point conserving energy and husbanding resources for that last stretch. Everything we have should go into the first part of the climb.

We have only a relatively short climb to reach as high as we need to go. We must make sure we are able to reach that point. Which means we have to be cognisant of where we are. We have to know that our starting point looks easy when expressed in numbers.

You could say we’ve come half way, in terms of votes. In numerical terms, we’re halfway there. If one half took two years, the second half should take no longer, surely. But that fails to take account of the increasing difficulty of winning those votes. Numbers can deceive.

Chas

Reality does not exist to many on here. Fantasy land is more attractive.

gregor

Our Last Night: Fantasy Land:

“We’re just fake
Advertisements selling artificial versions of
Ourselves…

Burying our heads in the sand
Running from the dark, covering our flaws
So everything is perfect when we’re living in fantasy land
(We’ll be damned, we’ll be damned, we’ll be damned)
Living in fantasy land…

Instead of sowing our seeds, we believe in little white lies

We display split personalities out on trophy shelves
To erase the parts of us that we don’t wanna face…”:

link to tinyurl.com

gregor

Medium: The Relationship Between Personal Beliefs And Reality, Reality And Personal Reality:

“Reality as we know it seems to have one consistent quality- it is always mostly outside of our control. At times we are victims of reality, at times we are champions of it, but the debate is always the degree to which we have decided to become either of these two. In the event that one reality is perceived differently by people, it immediately (and always does) become divided into several personal realities, and within these personal realities lies the freedom to choose (and for some, the unwillingness to see the freedom to choose)…

…If we just thought a little further though, perhaps we might notice that it takes a great degree of free will just to conform to the overarching notion that our free will is powerless to these larger issues. And maybe this started somewhere in childhood, or the structure of a society that mirrors the parent-child dynamic in which childhood is defined by the powerlessness to caretakers, but if we are to ever mature, it is crucial to become aware of the extent to which we unconsciously exercise free will. If this is done, reality becomes infinitely more malleable…”:

link to archive.ph

#RealityUnlimited

Marie Clark

Depressing isn’t it, not a real workable idea among them. Not surprising when you look at the massed ranks of the SNP. Not one of them capable of taking office or standing up for Scotland. Naw vote fur me I like the gravy train and the money it brings me, never mind you annoying plebs. I just need to con you into voting for me and I’ve got it made for a while.

Despicable people all of them. Mind you, looking around at the other parties they’re no better off are they. Some of them sat there for years coining it in working for the union against their own folk. It wid mak ye boak.

Campbell Clansman

If there was overwhelming support for Indy (there isn’t) the politicians would find out a dozen workable ways to make it happen–if for no other reason than to keep their jobs.

Breeks

If there wasn’t any support for Independence, then Westminster would be busting a gut to force through a Referendum confirming it.

The cowards can’t afford to take the risk, even with a pet Vichy SNP “Government” sitting on its incompetent arse and sucking up to Westminster for a whole decade.

Westminster’s hold on Scotland and Scotland’s wealth is tenuous and hanging by a thread. We know it, they know it, you know it, but still you trot out the same old pish like every other Yoon Goon on a soap box. It’s hard to know if you’re to be pitied or laughed at.

twathater

“It’s hard to know if you’re to be pitied or laughed at”

I’m sorry breeks I’m not as undecided as you , I despise tr@itors and betrayers who take delight in their country and people’s being abused and ridiculed, I have stated numerous times that when independence comes those same tre@sonous bastards should be shown no mercy

What kind of imbecile and guttersnipe willingly hands over control of their country and it’s resources to another country whose contempt for their nation is palpable

That these despicable scum believe that they are somehow exempt and valued from that contempt just shows the depth of their depravity

alan scott

As a twat and a piece of despicable scum who does not support breaking up the United Kingdom you tell me I should be shown no mercy. Can you advise me on what my punishment will be when glorious indy time comes? It may sway my vote.

Geri

You aren’t a Scot. You’re a British nationalist.

I expect unionists will move to what’s left of their mother ship.

The Union doesn’t benefit Scotland in any way, shape or form & treats us with contempt so if you are a Scot I’d practice now at losing the accent.

twathater

You are more forgiving than me Geri, it takes some form of mental illness for these clowns to believe that a foreign government running their country and stealing our resources for centuries is something they should be proud of . They trot out their denigration of the snp and its assorted incompetence and corruption without realising that they are promoting a much worse version of incompetence and corruption, they truly are fucked in the head and unsaveable just like snp voters

Geri

Aye, ye cannie serve two masters. Pick a nationality FFS lol it’s not difficult.

Maybe he can give us the list of benefits we’re all obviously missing out on?

It is a mental illness. Giving yer wages & wealth to yer neighbour for free, who can’t even stand you, & then moaning at the managerial team they control.

Indy voters voted to change that shit & they voted to keep it & yet they call us the stupid ones?! LOL

Andy Anderson

Self determination for one. Get rid of English law in Scotland another. Remove all anglophones from running any Scottish crown function (police, civil service, courts, etc). Scots run our universities. Keep all wealth in Scotland. I could go on.
I assume you are one of those people that consider as a country we Scots are unique in the world and cannot manage ourselves.

Hatey McHateface

Sorry, Geri, but that’s not why they call you a stupid one.

To be fair, you’re probably right about the others.

Breeks

Aw diddums. Poor, poor you, who desperately wants to be a Unionist but won’t / can’t be bothered to figure out a single argument to defend Unionism. – Why can’t these Indy troublemakers just be content in their unlawful subjugation like I am? They’ll spoilt if for everybody.

Go ahead and present your case for preserving the Union, then we’ll decide your terrible “fate”.

Pull up a chair everybody, gather round, listen to Alan. We’ve been waiting to hear the positive case for the Union articulated since long before 1979, so go ahead Alan Scott, proud Unionist. If there’s anything sound or cohesive in what you say, maybe Rev Stu will put it up as a guest article for open discussion.

And just for the record, to “sway your vote” implies holding a ballot, which Westminster disputes our right to hold, and which delivers a mandate the Vichy SNP refuses to respect, but hey, that’s UK democratic legitimacy for you; the same slap in the face for sovereign Scotland’s constitutional integrity it has always been.

You must be so embarrassed to have a surname like Scott. Scarred for life by such an accident of misfortune eh? Or is that just another made up wheeze on Bonnie Jockistan, like calling yourself a Campbell Clansman when its painfully obvious to all you’re neither?

So go ahead Mr Cleverdick Unionist-and-proud-of-it. Make your case. I’m betting you couldn’t use up the 280 letters needed to fill up Tweet.

Maybe get Clansman, Main, or whatever other pond life comes up to breathe, to give you a hand. Take as long as you need; you’ll still have nothing to say.

James

Bravo, sir. Bravo!

Hatey McHateface

The true Scots have delivered their verdict:

UNLEASH THE BEAVERS!!!

Nnnaaawwww!

twathater

NAW Johnny boy your fate will be to FORCE you to pay ever increasing amounts of BASTARD TAX to support and assist those less fortunate than you, Scots will reject the money lenders and their greed driven spawn

Hatey McHateface

“ever increasing amounts of BASTARD TAX”

Whatever, twathater, but I do wish you would choose one post-Indy narrative and stick with it.

Seems like no time since you were promising us bigger pensions, better benefits, cheaper energy, improved health care, cheaper public transport, social housing for all, etc etc.

We Scots were going to be rich from Scotland’s ample resources. Now you’re saying it will all just come out of taxes.

Ah well, just another retreat from the heady promises of 2014.

twathater

Johnny boy don’t be so fucking stupid we’ll just tax you and your fellow greed driven arsewipes till your pips squeak because we know that you and your kind worship money and your biggest nightmare is paying BASTARD TAXES

Geri

That minion probably doesn’t even live here & if he does he can go on the same bus as all his other wee Yoon pals back to the mother ship where life is just grand…

It amazes me why they haven’t all chosen that option already. I can’t think of anything worse than staying in a country I hate. It’s bonkers…

James

Yoon Goon. lol

Geri

NO. They deselect them. They don’t get to stand. They invent a past crime. They trawl their SM for ‘antisemitism’ or vilify them across all media platforms.

Have you not being paying attention? Sir Kid Starver jettisoned all the good ones out of Labour, stole the branch funding, cancelled 70 yrs members doing charity & installed a puppet instead as well as block & cancel ppl standing (Broxtowe) who have since resigned … & let’s not even start with what they did to Corbyn..

…oh lookie, SNP did that too! Isn’t that uncanny?! Only TRA, uneducated fckwits need apply..

& Don’t craw, Tories are no better. A lettuce lasted longer..

gregor

Simple Minds: Alive And Kicking:

“What you gonna do when things go wrong?
What you gonna do when it all cracks up?
What you gonna do when the love burns down?
What you gonna do when the flames go up?
Who is gonna come and turn the tide?
What’s it gonna take to make a dream survive?
Who’s got the touch to calm the storm inside?
Who’s gonna save you?
Alive and kicking…”:

link to tinyurl.com

…What/Who are YOU Scotland…

gregor

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, ‘Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?’ Actually, who are you not to be?…”:
(Marianne Williamson, A Return to Love: Reflections on the Principles of “A Course in Miracles”:)

link to goodreads.com

Chas

Simple Minds. Plenty of them on here.

gregor

Who’s simple minds, Chas ?

gregor

YOU don’t know what/who you are ?

YOU disapprove of Music/Arts/Scottish Culture, etc

Especially the notion of human empowerment and freedom ??

DOES ANYTHING PLEASE ‘YOU’ ???

#R.I.P.

gregor

Another post has vanished (sigh) ?

gregor

And stand-up Scotland still doesn’t know WHAT/WHO you are ???

YOU ARE LOST AND ARE AN EMBARRASSMENT TO SCOTLAND/CIVILISATION/HUMANITY.

gregor

Elon musk:

“Had this election not been won by @realDonaldTrump, civilization would be lost”:

link to tinyurl.com

gregor

Correction: Musk (I’m only super-human:)

Muscleguy

Remember arch glacial progress man John Swinney is in charge so there’s no hurry. The problem with his approach based on how NZ & Oz did it is neither particularly asked WM’s permission when nation building. In fact WM warned both against minting their own currencies and leaving the Sterling Zone.

Swinney’s strategy then is to ask for powers then do what when he is rebuffed? Holyrood can sit under the auspices of the Claim of Right sliding out from under the Scotland Acts simply by stating that is what they are doing. It would be legal in Scotland.

IF HR doesn’t have the power call a Convention of the Estates. Except D’Oh! after they lost all those MPs there’d be no Yes majority in such a body. All that is gone through inaction and ignoring Salvo and the Edinburgh Declaration.

This SNP will manage to miss or ignore any and every chance or method of gaining our Independence unless and until some outside body like the UN Decolonisation Committee forces them to faced with public excitement at the prospects.

With WM also being pressured by the UNDC HR inaction would be pretty much impossible. IF a S30 allowing indyref2 under UNDC auspices is passed then is HR really going to just ignore it? Political suicide would beckon in short order.

Muscleguy

Note this UNDC pressure could easily come this year in advance of the ’26 Holyrood election. So public opprobrium could be enacted in fairly short order if Swinney’s SNP are found wanting there.

Aidan

Pressure from the UNDC?? Are you high? There is more chance of the U.K. government facing external pressure from an extra terrestrial life form in advance of the 2026 election. Nobody in the UNDC or any other international organisation with a similar remit has the remotest interest in the cause of Scottish independence and they’ll do absolutely nothing to further it. As soon as people let this sink into their skull, the sooner the car can be removed from the swamp it’s been driven into.

Muscleguy

If Liberation can get Scotland listed as a Non Self Governing Country it will be an enormous diplomatic embarrassment to UKGov who have been telling everyone it’s all sweetness and light.

After thee Perfidious Albion act in leaving the EU the UK’s diplomatic standing is at rock bottom. Scotland has friends in the world. The Scandis want us in their council, the EU want us as they recognise we are a Europhile nation.

Lots of Realpolitik pressure can be brought to bear on them by those friends.

Aidan

Liberation is not going to get Scotland listed as a non-self governing territory though so all of the consequences that might flow from that are entirely irrelevant. It definitely, 100% is not going to happen.

The international community is almost certainly going to be a barrier rather than a facilitator of Scottish independence, because so many countries have problems with their own independence movements. The U.K. is also one of the most influential countries in the world, and has considerable diplomatic tentacles. It unfortunately makes the task more difficult, but we have to face up to that rather than inventing fairytales that campaign organisations with a few dozens members are going to be recognised as the de facto government.

Geri

The delusion is strong in you.

The UK is a joke on the international stage & they know all too well of their colonial past. They’ve fck all standing, anywhere. Even more so since Brexshit.

Aidan

Could you provide me with a list of countries who are highly regarded on the International stage?

Geri

Everyone except the G7.

Geri

The West is a minority. They have the biggest mouth, for now, due to coercion & illegal sanctions but that’s all about to change as more countries are joining BRICS to get rid of the Swift mafia payment system. Stealing ppls reserves or indiscriminately booting countries out wasn’t a wise move.

Last edited 1 month ago by Geri
Aidan

So in your view, countries which are well regarded internationally include North Korea and South Africa, countries which are poorly regarded include the USA, Canada, France and Germany. What a bizarre inverted world you live in.

Geri

What a racist world you live in.

South Africa is an emerging economy & is minted since they threw out the colonisers.

They’re currently pushing for reforms at the UN which includes a seat at the security council – in typical racist colonising fashion the Brits & other supremacists said they could have a seat but only to observe, no voting rights LMFAO! What an insult.

The G7 is pish poor & have a pish poor record on world security & lecturing anyone. The USA & Brits treat it as their exclusive club to block all majority votes & ride roughshod over international law.

& France & Germanys economies are in the toilet along with the Brits who are next.

You are NOT highly regarded on the international scene. Take a reality check & stop embarrassing yourself.

The UN will probably implode – hastened by gen-ocidal maniacs. A new organisation will either reform it or scratch it & start a new one.

One rule for me but not for thee is starting to get everyone’s back up…

Little Englandshire won’t be on the security council for much longer especially when they’re suspected of playing a major role in U & acts of terrorism.

Aidan

South Africa is minted, really? You’d better tell the people living there about because they sure haven’t realised, what with all the electricity blackouts and violent crime.

Can you provide us any evidence that the UN is about to implode? Your maniacal opinion is not evidence just so we close that off at the outset.

Geri

Yes – they’re minted in natural resources across all of Africa.

They’re getting their shit together & taking back control from the colonisers.

Besides Jellied eels – what does Englandshire actually have to offer the world? Precious little that doesn’t belong to someone else.

As for the UN, go do yer own research. Only a dumb fck will not know of the stooshies over Palestine where 146 countries voted for a Palestinian state & the US & Little Englandshire blocked it. Majority voted ignored & the afront to SA/African Union recently over their pish “observer” offer where they rightly told them to GTF & stop joking…

Geri

Here you go to get started..

It’s from BBC Englandshire too so you shouldn’t have a problem with the source..

link to bbc.co.uk

Hatey McHateface

Looks like Geri has learned a new number – 146.

Now all we need to know is the base.

Aidan

I think you need to look up the definition of “minted”. GDP per person in Africa isn’t even 10% of the U.K., and barely 5% that of the USA. I know you don’t believe in facts and data though.

Saying what does England have to offer the world is about the most stupid thing to say, I take it you’ve never left your basement. London is the number one aspirational destination in the world, and if not number one it’s certainly top 3. That doesn’t mean Scotland shouldn’t become independent, but saying England has nothing to offer the world is like saying electricity or running water have nothing to offer the world (although given the countries you champion, I wouldn’t be surprised if that is your view).

Geri

London deals with financial services. That’s purely based on speculation & subject to change, be cancelled or go defunct.

BRICS+ has surpassed the G7 in PPP. They actually have tangible products to trade with the world wants.

South Africa – who you wish to denigrate, has global trade including Gold, Diamonds, Platinum, machinery & vehicles. That’s a tad more than you do eh?

But let’s look at the others too..

Brazil – soybeans, iron oar, sugar, crude petroleum & agriculture.

R. Oil, natural Gas & coal

India – pharmaceuticals, textiles, gems, jewellery, petroleum products – fastest growing economy..

China – manufacturer to the world – nuff said. Tech, electronics, machinery, textiles & even tat should you require it..

The +

Coffee, oil, gas, petroleum, crude oil, cotton, fruits, agricultural products, industrial machinery, chemicals, machinery, minerals, lithium, tobacco, health care & medical equipment, bio technology, palm oil, rubber, grains & rice, ferrous metals etc, etc..

I think you get the picture. Tea, jam & jellied eels doesn’t cut it in the real world & neither does financial services as Air miles Hammond discovered circling six times round the world & coming back with a shit deal from NZ who obviously took one just for the lolz…

& The EU is currently cutting itself off in some sort of pact it has just to teach others a lesson or something LOL! But I’m sure the IMF will fudge the sums to keep up appearances. Germany & France doing bust is just a nasty rumour. I’m sure everything will be fine… another bail out perhaps? Tho I don’t think Trump will be up for it…he doesn’t like the EU. They’ve been mean about him…

Aidan

Yes, who would want an incredibly valuable and influential legal and financial services industry and to be a global hub, when you can have soy beans, grains and rice! The UK’s services sectors provide highly paid, high-gva jobs, and I’m not sure English or Scottish people want to be giving up those jobs to go down coal mines. The U.K. also exports more vehicles than South Africa.

I take it you’ve never been to India to witness the severe, in your face, poverty and overcrowding wherever you go?

Hatey McHateface

Nobody’s going down the coal mines, Aidan. On the day we Scots are forced to re-open them, it’ll be robots and ROVs.

The poverty in India is all the fault of some big English basturts who fecked the place over, then ran away 🙂

SA leads the world in necklaces for people whose faces don’t fit. But it’s not all bad news from SA. As a former aspirational first-world economy, reduced to third-world failure status by a self-imposed, nativist, ideologically blinkered regime, they have much to teach Scotland should we make the same mistakes as they did.

There are still pockets of first-world competence in SA, but the trick is for them to act like breakaway states within the country. They have to provide everything for themselves, including security, power, sanitation, water, communications, law & order, education, etc. They are an example to us all of what will happen if our state becomes too sclerotic, top-heavy and dis-functional to do anything, other than continue to pay its hordes of non-working “workers”.

Ominous signs of this starting to happen here can already be seen everywhere we look, but for reasons we must fathom out for ourselves, Geri likes this direction of decline.

Perhaps she fancies herself strolling down her local High Street in her khaki dungarees, casually swinging her AK-47!

Hatey McHateface

Fa’s Dan’s list o Scottish resources then, Geri?

It needs a wee update to include BEAVERS but apart from that, it’s sound.

BTW, “in the real world”, tea doesn’t grow in England, Scotland or scotland.

You want to give it a try, the real world, I mean.

But big congrats on being able to cut & paste stuff – I can see how navigating your benefits claims online must be a breeze for you.

Stu

Utter, utter, absolute delusional garbage. If you can’t work out why your little independence crusade isn’t going your way try looking in the mirror. You lot are completely mental, but you keep telling each other you’re the voices of sanity. You aren’t. Which is why you keep losing. Your best hope sunk her career by cheerleading for men in dresses while her “husband” stole your money.

Andy Ellis

Why would they magically do this now having not done so before? It’s the elephant in the room for the clueless “Scotland as Colony” advocates. Nobody remotely connected with reality is buying the nativist snake oil.

Cynicus

“Nobody remotely connected with reality is buying the nativist snake oil.”
=====
Don’t be unkind. In this postmodern age there are alternative realities, with my truth, your truth, his truth, et cetera

Andy Ellis

Well indeed. Perhaps if enough people self-identify as being colonised….? 🙂

In the meantime, if you as Grok “Does the UN consider Scotland a colony?”, it returns the following answer:

The United Nations does not officially classify Scotland as a colony. Scotland is part of the United Kingdom through the Act of Union in 1707, which created a political union rather than a colonial relationship. According to the UN’s framework on decolonization, Scotland does not appear on the list of Non-Self-Governing Territories, which are the territories explicitly recognized by the UN as being under colonial rule and subject to the process of decolonization.

However, there have been discussions and debates within Scotland and among some scholars regarding the nature of Scotland’s relationship with the rest of the UK, with some arguing that elements of Scotland’s position resemble aspects of colonialism in terms of economic exploitation and political control. These arguments, though, do not reflect the UN’s official stance or recognition.

The UN’s focus on decolonization is primarily concerned with territories where there is a clear administering power that is not the same as the local populace, which does not apply to Scotland within the UK context. The UN’s official documents and resolutions on decolonization do not list Scotland as a colony or a territory requiring decolonization.

For more detailed discussions on this topic, including various perspectives, you can refer to web-based articles and analyses, such as those found in academic and political discourse on Scottish independence and the historical context of the Union.

Geri

Aye, like they weren’t remotely interested in a diddy wee province called Northern Ireland where they sent a whole team to sort that shit out..

Or, more recently, Palestine – where 146 members voted to recognise a Palestinian state. Over 75%

Yes: 138 | No: 09 | Abstentions: 41 | Non-Voting: 05 | Total voting membership: 193

Democracy denied yet again by the minority & why the UN will implode if it doesn’t get it’s shit together & a new one will take it’s place. Not a bad idea cause the Brits & France shouldn’t be on the security council & the USA & it’s maniac mate should be booted entirely for war crimes & crimes against humanity & be sitting in the Hague, not the UN.

Last edited 1 month ago by Geri
Hatey McHateface

It’s easy to recognise the state of P@lestine. You see photos of it everywhere.

Of those 146 members – any of them accepting refugees?

Any of them going down the tunnels to negotiate with the hostage takers?

After all, these are the kind of steps that would practically and materially help the P@lestinian people.

But I guess grandstanding and virtue signalling on the international stage is just as much fun for professional politicos as it is for unemployable bedroom-based posters.

Geri

Piss off with yer propaganda. Yahoo doesn’t want the hostages as proven when the rejected the offer.

No matter how many times you wish to spin it & keep banging yer drum about those poor hostages – the world knows mentalist yahoo rejected the deal.

& Why should anyone be accepting refugees to aid a war criminal in his manic endeavours to ethnically cleanse their lands so they can hurry up with illegal expansion the UN & the ICJ has already told them to stop doing.

Every time you open yer gob on here you look an absolute arse..

znovak

Bill Clinton said recently that young Americans do not believe him that in 2000 Arafat walked away from a deal, which would lead to creation of the Palestinian state in the West bank ( -4% of existing settlements + 4% of Isr*ael to make up for that). In his words: ” having turned down a once in a lifetime peace opportunity, you can’t complain 25 years later when the doors weren’t all still open, and all the possibilities weren’t still there.”

Geri

They don’t believe him because he’s a liar.

znovak

Are you saying that he lied about it ? He did not, it happened exactly as he said. Students bamboozled by propaganda just refuse to believe anything that contradicts the alternate reality they live in.

Breeks

The “deal” was essentially allowing the thief to keep what he had stolen.

Given the disgraceful complicity of the US and Z10nism laid bare in the current genocide, it would seem Arafat was wise to mistrust the US as “neutral” arbiter or mediator.

You can’t complain about the consequences? Grow up. The “I” occupation is illegal and condemned by multiple UN Resolutions. Obey the fkg law, return what you stole, then address “peace”. It wasn’t Arafat’s refusal which caused any of this. How typical that you shirk the responsibility onto others. Yes P@Lestine, you did this to yourselves! You forced us to unleash this murderous genocide and holocaust upon you.

The Z10nists are as sick in the head as H1tlers N@z1s, with the added sin of rabid hypocrisy.

Hatey McHateface

Nobody has a better claim to any parcel of real estate, anywhere in the world, than the Isr@elis have to the Holy Land.

Their claim rests on three unassailable pillars: Written histories from Roman times; Archaeological evidence; Holy scripture.

There was a time, not that distant in memory, when just the latter evidence was sufficient for the Scottish people. How sadly typical that some of the so-called defenders and champions of our culture and history should deny their heritage, in pursuit of ephemeral virtue-signalling brownie points.

“murderous genocide and holocaust”

Wow, buy a murderous genocide fairy tale and get a holocaust thrown in for free. Says it all really about where the denial of reality can take you when you decide the real world is just too much for you to handle.

Back in the difficult and tricky real world though, rational people know full well that the wee, pretendy “genocide” will stop the day the hostages are released. Just as they know that the reason the humous boys won’t release the hostages is because they don’t give a shit about the travails of their own people.

Why should they, when they have useful idiots like Breeks to do all the shit-giving on their behalf?

The “Z10nists” have forgotten more about genocides and holocausts than the likes of Breeks will ever learn. They could teach us Scots a thing or two about national survival in a hostile world, but if the likes of Breeks hold sway, Scots will go the way of the dodo instead.

And as we go under, bleatin and greetin and wringing our hands, the likes of Breeks will still be posting about hypocrisy, N@zis and how it’s all just so unfair.

Evil_c

I am a unionist but do agree that the only way this works if you have a enough levers to do things like pass Scottish laws on currency etc. i.e. the Catalan route and shame WM into caving in.

But for this to work needs clear majority and SNP shit the bed on that front over last 10 years.

Hence I am sleeping soundly as I will be long gone before you get independence.

Muscleguy

There’s more to the Yes movement politically than the SN bloody P. I am not SNP so don’t hold a candle for the Devoloutionist, misogynist bastards.

They are not going to know what’s hit them in ’26. You unionists think your List sinecures are safe. We are coming for them.

gregor

Sorry to disappoint you, Evil_c

#Freedom

Evil_c

So when is independence day? Before 2050?

gregor

I’m free now –

It’s your own conscious decision whether or not you choose to be free.

Freedom won’t fall from the sky, or be issued.

Geri

We all know the SNP is useless so why not look into & report on the other possible runners & riders?

gregor

You’re at the forefront…

Frank Anderson

Along with the key points, the announcement stated that the revamped grassroots campaign is one that’s data-driven and people-powered
THE SNP have launched a renewed grassroots campaign in a bid to unite the support for Scottish independence and turn it into a movement.

Was this it, early December? A bit late and an imitation of their proxy Believe in Scotland campaign unit. No doubt Mr BIS will have his nose out of joint. He claims to have most of the YES groups ” under his control” and actually does some days of action and produces literature. He of course imitates existing YES groups and often clashes with their events (matches).

Perhaps the SNP have fallen out with him or he is becoming too popular. Soon, like AUOB, Common Weal and Scottish Currency Group, they will be ‘persona non gratta’ by the SNP.

duncanio

The SNP’s Independence Strategy is to remain in power in order to continue the cover-up of those who instigated and were involved in the attempted jailing of Alex Salmond and to prevent the truth about the ring-fenced referendum funds being revealed.

Neil Singleton

The ring fenced referendum fund is peanuts when compared to the £5 BILLION paid to Scottish Government by Westminster, for Covid relief to Scottish businesses, which Audit Scotland “cannot trace or account for.”

Geri

Suck it up , sunshine. That’s the Union for you… independence supporters voted to leave that set up & keep our own accounts. Nawbags preferred the UK to do it for us.

It was their fault anyway. They didn’t close an island. Herd immunity & show the Dunkirk spirit. Plus, nawbags can hardly grumble about politicians & businesses owners being on the take now can they? The Tories had “phone a friend & become a millionaire” hotline going on..

Ever heard the phrase those in glass houses?…

Derek Thomson

“Nawbags”. Priceless. I’ll use that if I may.

Geri

Sure 😀

Confused

oh there is a plan, it’s just not what you think it is

59b11de65f8bb-e1504780480847
robertkknight

“Your friend Sturgeon is really My friend Sturgeon”

1000023601
Confused

micro expressions tell all

0_JS180636312
gregor

Express it all

gregor

Censors hate expression.

Chas

If Scotland is to ever achieve Independence some party has to convince the majority of the electorate to want it. The cranks and nutters would take it tomorrow but the sane and realistic amongst us, which are the majority, would want some answers to the multitude of questions which are conveniently ignored. Demonstrate how it could be better and people will go for it. To the tiny minority who post on here this is no doubt ‘yoon speak’.and therein lies the problem. Who do YOU see forming an honest competent Government? What is the alternative to what we currently have?

gregor

YOU are we.

gregor

Then who is we (‘YOU’ claimed we) ?

Nobody in Scotland can recognise/describe who we are (WTF) ???

Poor lost wee souls.

Antoine Roquentin

 “the [deluded] and [happy] amongst us, which are the majority,”

Alf Baird

Dinna forget what is regarded as perhaps the biggest challenge facing a colonized people:

link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com

Alex stewart

So, no strategy then. I’ll vote for whomever goes with that manifesto for independence then

Confused

this honest and competent gubmint, is it in westminster by any chance 

starmer-saville
Chas

No.What is the alternative? The SNP? If not who?
Constant grevience and wringing of hands will not get us therei Millions of Scots await your words of wisdom with bated breath.

Confused

The Scotch need the wise pimp-hand of the Anglo to save them from the perils of strong drink, fratricide and sentimentality. Anglo philanthropy being well known.

1554633784734
Hatey McHateface

It’s really The Dews behind it all.

Thanks to Confused for clarifying.

As I’ve written on here before, the cadre of antisemites really need to stop creeping and crawling about and put their real manifesto centre stage.

Have the courage of their convictions and all that good stuff.

gregor

YOU are us (yawn).

Mark Beggan

Idem Vetus Mendacium.

gregor

Scotland’s enemies aim to conquer reality –

Your choice (eyes roll:)

gregor

The video I posted in response to your post, appears to have vanished from my feed (hopefully just a glitch in the matrix).

Karen

What “Confetence agrees” and what the declining jobsworths are willing to do, are obviously completely different things.

Garrion

Douse the corpse of the SNP in petrol, throw a match over one’s shoulder on the way to somewhere better.

Dek

A continuation of the eleven point plan devised by that great disappointment Mike Russell .No substance and not one remotely fit to lead.

sarah

Depressing is too optimistic a word to describe the SNP policy and personnel.

How on earth do we get the 100 – 200,000 enthusiasts who attended the Edinburgh AUOB to pressurise their MP/MSP and the “Scot gov” squatting in Bute House?

How do we put the fear of God into those elected people?

Scotland’s people are being injured by their own pretendy parliament and devolved administration. How the hell do we stop them?

How do we stop Kate Forbes from thinking that she knows better than us whilst she sells our assets, and our liberties, off to overseas profiteers?

I can’t answer those questions. I have to hope that there are some great brains who can get something moving in time for May 2026. Meantime I support any pro-independence initiative that comes to my attention.

#ManifestoforIndependence is ongoing – sign and share the petition which tells our elected representatives that we won’t vote for them unless their manifesto includes the #ManifestoforIndependence i.e. commits them to a defined process for gaining independence if there is a majority independence vote in the election. No ifs, no buts.

gregor

re. “How do we put the fear of God into those elected people?”

God knows, Sarah…

sarah

and he isn’t telling.. 🙂

gregor

Looks like my response to you has vanished.

gregor

Talk Talk: Life’s What You Make It:

“Baby, life’s what you make it
Don’t backdate it
Baby, don’t try to shade it
Beauty’s naked…

Baby, life’s what you make it
Celebrate it, anticipate it
Yesterday’s faded, nothing can change it…

(Everything’s all right)
(Everything’s all right)
(Everything’s all right:)
Make it, make it…”:

link to tinyurl.com

aLurker

Aye Sarah.
and here’s the link for folk:

link to newscotlandparty.scot

sarah

Many thanks for the link, aLurker!

twathater

I’ve been on to the site and there is no actual petition to sign

sarah

Hi, twathater. I went to the link, the blog and the facebook and couldn’t see how to sign either, at first, BUT I finally entered my details in the box at the bottom of the page under the Petition tab – the box says “Support Us, Sign this Petition” – and the “Sign” word then comes to life, allowing you to sign.

It’s a bit confusing that when you tap the Petition tab it says “privacy policy”!

Campbell Clansman

The “New Scotland Party” wants to lead an Indy movement, but can’t even create a working website.
BTW, even the website claims only 186 signees so far–186, out of 5 million Scots.
What a joke. The NSP exists to rake in donations from the gullible, and to stroke the already-inflated ego of Peter Bell.

Aidan

Don’t be so dismissive, those 186 votes could easily affect the outcome of a parish council election.

Causes that enjoy a greater level of support include:
– opposition to a new Premier Inn in Heswell
– new anti-climb paint at Gabalfa roundabout in Cardiff
– keeping the cat at Addenbrooks hospital
– restoration of a footpath in Essex
– extending the Glasgow Airport bus
– protection of hedgehogs in Chesterfield
– changing the colour of street lights

Peter A Bell

Whereas you seem to exist solely to discourage people from participating in any attempt to generate the unity of purpose that is essential if Scotland’s cause is to progress.

This suggests that you are either a hard-line Unionist or a mindless devotee of some nominally pro-independence party. It is very difficult to distinguish between them. I’m not sufficiently familiar with your ‘contributions’ to come to any conclusion. Having glanced at two or three of the little ‘deposits’ you’ve left here, I’m disinclined to become better acquainted with your vacuous output.

More intellectually acute readers than yourself – pretty much everyone, I’d reckon – will not be at all shocked to discover that political parties need money. Particularly, new political parties. You write of this mundane fact as if it was some kind of revelation. Which is a bit silly.

For the record, New Scotland Party does seek donations. Initially, I funded the whole exercise out of my own pocket. The sums involved were not great. But given that my only income is the meagre British state pension, the sums were significant from my perspective. Not a penny of it was grudged. I have given much more to the ‘old guard’ of the independence movement over the years, and got very much less in return.

New Scotland Party is now funded entirely by independence supporting individuals. My main contribution now is time – about eight to ten hours, seven days a week. Rather like a job. Which is a bit of a wrench for someone whose ambition was to be the most retired person in Scotland.

I am grateful to those who have donated. And the members of the NSP Working Group which has provided support and advice and encouragement that is at least as valuable as any cash donation. And while I’m at it I’d do well to mention the people who have joined the New Scotland Party Facebook Group and/or the countless people who have contacted me directly with messages of support.

This effort is important. Increasing numbers of people are realising that the politicians won’t act unless the people combine sufficiently to deliver a hard (virtual) kick up their collective arse. It remains important even if dullards such as yourself are unable to understand why it is important.

I realise you won’t understand this either. But as a committed independence activist, I don’t care if I am a lone voice. If I was the only independence activist left standing, I’d still be fighting for Scotland’s cause in whatever way I am persuaded would be most effective. I don’t follow the crowd. I don’t need professional politicians and ‘experts’ to tell me what to say and do. I figure it out for myself. I act for Scotland’s cause as I see fit. Not an army of your ilk will stop me.

aLurker

It seems the page has been reformatted now.

Explanatory page:

link to newscotlandparty.scot

short version. Just sign here:

link to newscotlandparty.scot

(Which uses a javascript widget so you may have to turn off browser javascript blocking addons to use it)

Last edited 1 month ago by aLurker
twathater

Sarah thanks for the info , I tried numerous times but the sign word does nothing , I think it is badly designed, I am not a great fan of Mr Bell his constant sycophancy towards sturgeon and the snp took years to dissipate and that is questionable, plus his insistence that ONLY HE knows the way forward and all others deserve abuse

Hatey McHateface

FFS, twathater, he was a Scot and his telephone revolutionised the world.

sarah

Hi twathater. I sympathise with you – IT stuff drives me mad too! aLurker replied just before this one from you – he may have the answer.

Re PAB, he does admit to having been wrong re Sturgeon – as so many other people were. The Manifesto for Independence was a group effort by several Good Guys, by the way.

Peter A Bell

I don’t insist that only I know the way forward. I merely state the fact that nobody else has proposed an actual process by which to restore Scotland’s independence. If they have and I have somehow missed it, I’m sure you’d get a wee thrill out of correcting me.

Peter A Bell

Hi, Sarah. Sorry you had difficulty signing the petition. But it makes sense that the ‘Sign’ button doesn’t become active until the signatory has entered their details. Otherwise, the form could be submitted anonymously. Anonymous submissions would, of course, be useless.

I have made some changes to the petition page which will hopefully make it it more user friendly.

It’s a bit depressing to see some of the reactions to this initiative here. I have put a great deal of effort into this exercise. Not least because it will almost certainly be my last attempt to do something to further Scotland’s cause. Something has to be done. But when I see the snide, demeaning comments here and elsewhere I can understand why people might be reluctant to commit to some form of action. If I allowed myself to be affected by the behaviour of some self-styled independence supporters, I too would be disheartened and discouraged.

But I know that for the most part the supercilious sneering comes from people who are proudly ignorant of what Manifesto for Independence campaign is about. The grotesque irony is that there is so much overlap between those insisting we need ‘unity’ and those who so mindlessly deride anyone who attempts to create unity of purpose.

The greatest obstacle to progress towards the restoration of Scotland’s independence is not the British state nor its agents and accomplices here in Scotland. The drag anchor holding us back is within the independence movement. You only have to read some of the comments here to see what I mean.

sarah

I did sign early on, Peter – on 1st January! I’m just not very good with online stuff in general.
I too am sorry to read some of the comments btl but they are critical of anyone trying to restore Scotland to its rightful position as a nation state – it’s not only you they poke at.

Aidan

Speaking undoubtedly as one of the heretics you are referring to, I don’t think you understand the damage to the cause of Scottish independence that some of these ‘campaigns’ are doing. What do you think ordinary Scottish people think of the nonsense alternative legal theories put forward by the likes of Salvo, the promotion and apologism for the Russian and Chinese state, and the rabid irrational hatred of England that is continually put forward on this forum. Do you think this promotes the idea of a mainstream campaign run by serious competent people, or an occupation for the terminally bored/mad?

I don’t think you understand the scale of the challenge of breaking up the U.K. state, and the strategy, resources and work that it takes. The idea that two coach loads of people signing an online petition is anything but a distraction is just incomprehensible. It’s not going to do anything or move the dial in any way. Similarly, adults chanting the Edinburgh declaration like some kind of spell to dismember the treaty of union is just embarrassing.

Perhaps I’m wrong, but I don’t actually think many on here are all that interested in independence. It’s just a pastime to indulge in weird ideas with a bit of high pitch ranting to mix. Such is the lack of either serious ideas or a serious strategy.

gregor

You are a Scotland star, Peter (et al)…

#ScotlandPatriots

Campbell Clansman

Reliable sources placed the AUOB crowd at 20,000, not 100,000-200,000, Sarah.
I suppose a moonhowler movement needs to invent fantasy crowd numbers…..

Peter A Bell

What “reliable sources”? You forgot to name them or provide links. People might think you’ve just invented those “reliable sources” for trolling purposes.

Breeks

Very reliable source Peter. Without fail, there are tea leaves in the cup every single day.

Morgatron

They talk the bullshite.

Effijy

We need great leaders and well grounded independence policies if we are to become Independent.
We no longer have an Alex Salmond and SNP don’t use people of intellect and integrity if there is a hate filled trans around or someone from a minority who can be put into power regardless of their inability drive toward independence.

Confused

incompetence is a general feature of all hierarchies – “the peter principle”; there is also the unfortunate fact that people, especially at higher levels, get their jobs not on merit, but on loyalty to those above them. Thus you end with a kakistocracy. Talent and intelligence, elicits only envy from the mediocre – call it “siegfried syndrom” – and consider Salmond.

– indy needs a new leader, someone like this, metaphorically at least 

the-leader-we-need
gregor

Keep leading…

gregor

While the powerless demonic cave dwellers, hiss and spit venom from the sidelines (regressing into oblivion:)…

Jason Smoothpiece

It’s time the SNP stood down.

When you have lost all credibility you have lost all credibility, for a political party to be in the situation that the SNP are it’s time to go.

robertkknight

I clicked on the image/link in Stu’s article to read all about the SNP’s strategy for Indy and I guess my humble laptop has some savvy AI installed because it presented me with this….

1000023600
100%Yes

There isn’t a union crack the SNP isn’t prepared to lick, even the Reform party’s.

When Pete Wishart makes the calling for the start of a new plan to achieving Indyref2 even the carrots leave the room.

The SNP hasn’t changed… Its just found new ways to lie.

I’ll be honest the last time I was taken up the hill on the promise of a plan towards Indyref2 I’ve still not got to the bottom yet.

The SNP don’t mean to lie they do it in order to get elected again. If they didn’t lie, you’d know the truth and you’d realize how F*cking stupid you’ve been for the last 10yrs. So what does the membership do they ignore the truth and except the lie its a lot easy than saying I’ve been a fool.

The one’s that irritate the crack of my ares is the one’s who make a living out of saying (I want Independence) I they do when they’ve achieve 35yrs contributions towards their pension leaving Scotland and our people to suffer in the mean time.

Mark Beggan

The SNP are going to get booted into hyperspace.

willie

Disgraced sex pest and ex SNP MP Patrick Grady who sexually harassed a teenage staffer has just been appointed head of policy and communications with the Scottish International Development Alliance.

Basic salary is reported at £43,000 a year for a four day week with Patrick only having to attend the office in Edinburgh one day a week.

Not a bad salary at all for a part time job requiring only one day a week in the office. Of course with the SIDA being largely funded by the Scottish Government its not difficult to think there was just a teensy weensy bit of string pulling in the appointment.

That type of pull becomes even more possible when you consider the appointment of an ex SNP MSP who after losing his list seat, and with his previous life skill of a firemen, was appointed to the supervisory board of, wait for it, Calmac of the ferries fame.

Putting out fires, metaphorically, could be a quite useful function given their ferry service performance – and indeed, the small matter of a battery major fire on the state of the art hybrid ” MV Hallaig ” that served the Isle of Raasay.

( Question 1 – who launched the ultra expensive MV Hallaig from Fergusons in a fanfare of publicity about it being a world class first……that now plies its trade as a diesel boat, it being too expensive to replace the battery?)

( Question 2 – what other two world class hybrid electric ferries built to the same specification and in the same yard as the Hallaig, and at similar ultra expensive costs of something like four times that of similar capacity non hybrid boats, had both to be pulled from active service after the Hallaig battery fire ?)

Aye 100% you do seem to have the measure of the quality of the ex elected SNP – but fortunately, for some reason they fall on their feet.

Maybe someone should do a list of where all the ex elected SNP go after they lose their seats.

In the meantime maybe someone could say if they know who the ” godmother ” of the MV Hallaig was?

Its a ferry good question!

twathater

The defenders of piggy O’Grady are out in force on twatter, as far as they are concerned he did nothing wrong , it seems being a sex PEST is acceptable and normal for snp supporters

Mark Beggan

When a government destroys a nation by trying to change it to suit itself. Then it is the duty of every citizen of that nation to destroy the political system that made it possible.

gregor

Patriot:

“A person who loves their country and, if necessary, will fight for it.”:

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

#LoveYouScotland

gregor

Have you got the integrity to share your love and appreciation for Scotland and its people –

I love you so much Scotland.

Let’s hear/see/feel it, Team-Scotland players (Patriot Mark)…

gregor

Are you just as bad as rotten SNP fraud ??

Fraud:

“The crime of obtaining money or property by deceiving people.”

“A person or thing that is not what it claims or pretends to be:

He says he’s been everywhere and done everything, but I think he’s a fraud.”:

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

#FakeScotlandPatriots

Mark Beggan

Scotland’s International Development Alliance.

willie

No doubt Scotland’s International Development Alliance with a replacement “rocket” at the head of policy and communication he will soon be the ” godfather ” at the helm of state of the art ” spacecraft ” building.

Moon Shot Grady – world class, world leading, we’re all waiting!

Bob

Isn’t SIDA the French abbreviation for AIDS?

gregor

Mark (et al) doesn’t have the integrity (mind, heart & soul) to share his love and appreciation for Scotland and its people.

Love you Scotland.

#ScotlandFrauds

gregor

What’s your alliance, Mark ?

Mine is Team-Scotland/humanity.

Alliance:

“An agreement to work with someone else to try to achieve the same thing:

The three smaller parties have forged/formed an alliance against the government.

Some of us feel that the union is in alliance with management against us.”:

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

#TeamScotlandFreedomChampions

paul

Who was this senior figure?
Swinney, or the senior guy in westminster?

I’ve heard of dancing on grave, but rolling aound on it is a new one.

Tartanpigsy

Instead of more of the same, I’d prefer to see articles promoting how the non party Yes movement is getting its sh*t together and coalescing round a single Yes list vote strategy that goes beyond the myriad of small self important groupings we currently have.
We know how timid and ineffective the SNP are.
Is there an outcome from the meeting last month to formulate a strategy going forward?
Or does this have to wait until the McEleny camp gets booted out of control of Alba before any serious conversations are had?
I’m genuinely interested, FWIW I think boring John is actually doing a half decent job just by not mentioning GRA/ Greens etc
It already marks an apparent shift from Septic Sturgeon’s days however small.
I’m kinda done with this whole movement until some direction is found.
Also the ridiculous tolerating of UK Government trolls on this site is getting too much to bear
Ban them ffs and let discussion develope

KT Lorimer

Interesting – I see the McEleny debacle is being picked up on and an interest in the NSP proposal.

gregor

Scotland won’t have any viable Indy plan without understanding what/who it is.

Peter McAvoy

Holyrood should have a vote to gain more taxation powers to reinstate the winter fuel allowance and prevent the imposition of inheritance tax for farmers.

Guarantee the Scottish Parliament is permanent and separate support for Independence and fourth Reich (EU) membership

Ensure that Hollywood has full control of fishing grounds and discard the transgender nonsense and stop the institutional racism to white people.

willie

Away with ye Peter McAvoy.

Stripping the pensioners of the winter heating allowance is a wizard idea. If they are cold they can dance to stay warm, and if they are ill or infirm, well not to put too fine a point on it, the cold will assist with you know – assisted dying. An accounting measure really to get them off the books so why would the SNP pursue any change.

Inheritance tax for farmers, Again why would the SNP want to change that, There are thousands of small family farms that have been handed down father to son. Don’t you realise Mr McAvoy that such family owned farms is something we want to destroy. Far better if the big corporates move in. I mean look at land ownership in Scotland with the huge big business ownership of huge tracts of land. ( QUESTION – who owns 35% of the prime wheat growing land in an area of Europe known as the breadbasket of Europe. Hint its some big international boyos with backing from the worlds largest, and I mean largest investment monster. And you want to put a spoke in transferring land form family farmers to you know who types. Mnn?

And control of the fishing grounds. Dinna be daft man. The seas are for the big corporates. Monster fish farming like the salmon farming nearly one hundred percent of the current industry is the way to go. And there’s proposals for the corporates to move in to offshore farming of proteins.

Already a corporate, Mowi, had an interdict granted against an environmental campaigner from accessing the sea off Skye in his canoe, or from flying a drone over any of the corporates fish pens, or from even commenting in the electronic forums on the level of fish deaths and environmental issues – else in breach of interdict it was to be immediate jail. SLAPP they call it, a legal device imported from America, it is an acronym for Strategic Litigation Against Public Participation.

Aye away with you Peter McAvoy – imagine wanting Scotland to take control of its fishing grounds, You’ll be wanting control of the oil, gas and offshore wind next.

Dance. That’s what we need, Dancing lessons. Maybe the SNP could organise that.

Peter McAvoy

I appreciate your sarcasm.

Hatey McHateface

Have you forgotten that most elderly are Tories and/or Yoons?

It makes perfect sense for Labour and the SNP to hasten their demise.

As for farmers, when did anybody ever meet one who isn’t a Tory?

What you should be calling for, Peter, is an end to incumbent governments punishing their opponent’s supporters through targeted legislation.

That’s never going to happen though. Half the fun of getting into office is exacting payback from your enemies.

Just read some of the posts above here!

Geri

The Tories ushered in twenty+ yrs of austerity, sold all the family assets, paid the worst pensions in Europe, increased the pension age, ushered in UC for couples of different ages, screwed Waspi women as well as being the proud owner of being directly responsible for over 120,000 DWP deaths.

Even a damning UN report on it being a con & completely unnecessary didn’t shame them intae cancelling their Bollinger delivery tae Dowdy street.

So I think they can shut the fuck up about cutting the winter heating allowance cause they’d have been proud to usher in that one too & will be splitting feathers they didn’t think of that one..

They’re so proud of Sir Kid Starver… keeping up the good work in their pretendy absence from power…

I’m sure it’s all Ps fault somewhere along the line tho…the English do love a good war effort scam…Freeze for victory or something catchy..

Last edited 1 month ago by Geri
gregor

Keep your children safe:

link to tinyurl.com

#PedoCharterExtravaganza

gregor

Kid:

“A child:

He took the kids to the park while I was working.”:

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

Republicofscotland

The Scottish taxpayer is bank rolling this known sex pest.

“A shamed former SNP MP who sexually harassed a teenage staff member has landed a top job with a charity bankrolled by the Scottish Government.
Patrick Grady has been appointed head of policy and communications for Scotland’s International Development Alliance (SIDA).”

David Hannah

Only Alex Salmond’s family, can deliver justice for Scotland by exposing criminal conspirator Nicola Sturgeon and her partner in crime, lavender Pete.

Because we know that through, Operation Branchform, and Operation Kopper,

Dorothy STAIN of the Clown office, is doing her best to keep us living in a tin pot Pariah state, that jails journalists, and lets criminals like the aphabetties roam free.

There is no justice in Scotland. Not with the criminals running the Government who are clear for all to see! We see you scumbags!

By taking out Alex Salmond, they took out the Independence cause for a generation.

There must be a price to pay. Retribution is a MUST!

JAIL STURGEON. THE JUDAS.

Last edited 1 month ago by David Hannah
Shug

Can you name the plants that drafted this nonplan. We need to list the kompromats

Hatey McHateface

“Independence for Scotland” or words to that effect.

A moment’s thought lets us recognise just how tricky the “words to that effect” clause could be to a committee of salaried and pension accruing troughers with not too much else to keep them occupied over a parliamentary term.

And then there’s the thorny problem of how to write Scotland.

”Scotland” or “scotland”? That’s certainly defeated some of the finest Wings BTL minds 🙂

Mark Beggan

Scotland scotland. It’s s been shafted whatever way you spell it.

Hatey McHateface

You can’t reasonably claim that scotland has been shafted until you have gone there and spoken to the republican boy who inhabits it.

Good luck finding the place 🙂

Andy Anderson

Sad reading this Stu. After all this time the SNP still try to operate within Westminster rules and ignore the powers of Scots law. I suspect this is simply ignorance and the lack of will to learn. In 2015 and 2016 they could have caused a major constitutional crisis and if handled well got us our freedom by now. Shame on them.

Mark Beggan

The SNP have done this deliberately. It has been their whole strategy since day one.

Gordon

There’s no way in the creation of crow’s crap that they’re not fully aware of the reality of our constitutional situation – they’re simply terrified by the actions required to exercise our sovereignty

Mark Beggan

Like the Imperial Japanese army the SNP have no orders to retreat or surrender. It might take a Little Boy to convince them. Little Boy coming in the form of Reform.

Oneliner

Not as long as they have Fat Man lurking in the background

Mark Beggan

The only thing they have is a fruit bowel.

gregor

Whereas stand-up Mark only has personal abuse.

Mark Beggan

Calm down to a riot Gregor, there’s a nice chap.

gregor

Stop deflecting, Mark

Some fu**ing Scotland patriot you are.

gregor

#TeamScotlandAr**hole

gregor

Scotland beware of vanishing posts.

gregor

VANISHING: Vanishing Vision: DEAR LOSER:

link to tinyurl.com

#NoEscape

gregor

“Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information. This may be done on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or “inconvenient””:

link to en.wikipedia.org

gregor

No fu**ing wonder Scotland doesn’t have any plan.

SCOTLAND, WHO/WHAT ARE YOU ???

gregor

If nobody is willing to answer – I’ll tell you:

I’m Scotland and I love Scotland/its people –

And you zombie-sh**ple won’t be destroying my beloved Scotland (culture/arts/national identity, etc) –

The plan is that all bad Scotland Actors will be duly exposed and held to account, and Scotland/humanity is gonna have a wonderful future –

SUCK IT UP (miserable forever-losers)…

#LostScotlandSouls

gregor

And I’ll continue holding the captain’s armband (and exercising my unlimited freedom and power:) until you find yourself, and step-up to the undisputed winning-team…

#ScotlandPower #RealityWins

gregor

If you fundamentally disagree, then step-up and face me.

Inept spineless cowards.

Chas

It takes a special kind of nutter to reply to his own posts.
Once could be deemed an accident but you do it to often to be deemed sane.
Your repetitive mince is almost as bad as Baird’s!

gregor

You’re a fu**ing idiot, Chas (kamikaze lemming:) –

I don’t expect you to understand:

re. “SCOTLAND, WHO/WHAT ARE YOU ???”

gregor

I’m one, Chas –

My posts are mine, I’m in control of myself

Whereas you don’t have any control (your profound stupidity and malicious nature leads you:)

gregor

I love Alf and his Scotland contributions.

Mark Beggan

The Dark Forces are at work here in Scotland. It’s official.

gregor

Dark forces shouldn’t fu** with God.

gregor

Prison for Starmer:

link to x.com

gregor

“Multiple European officials threatened to put Elon in prison, and they would have if Trump had lost.

European nations declared war on the west and our values.

With all sincerity, these enemies of humanity can fuck right off.”:

link to tinyurl.com

gregor

This forum can’t even tell me what our Scotland values are – not even one (and it has the audacity to attack me:)

DEAR SCOTLAND,

WHAT ARE YOUR VALUES ???

#ScotlandZombieNation

Mark Beggan

What are you on mate? Whatever it is you’d best stop

gregor

Stop being fu**ing lazy and stop me.

You nasty idiot.

gregor

I’ll utterly expose you too, should you persist being a wanker.

Hatey McHateface

Naw, nae in this weather, gregor.

It’ll freeze solid and snap aff 🙂

gregor

You believe in dark forces (devil) but you don’t believe in God, huh

gregor

re. “What are you on mate?”

Nothing, mate (smile)…

link to ibb.co

#LoveYouScotland

gregor

BBC (2025): Child sexual abuse inquiry chair…:

“…distanced herself from calls from the Conservatives and Reform UK for a new inquiry into grooming gangs.”:

link to archive.ph

Young Lochinvar

Neo Liberalism and Nationalism aren’t good bedfellows; hence SHE whose name shall not be uttered and Useless wringing their hands over their parties name. Swinney keeps the whole seized up gearbox on the issue quiet, focussing on child poverty while ensuring QWERTY flags get to replace the saltire on dreamt up/ hijacked “special” QWERTY days.

There is no imminent election, so accordingly eff all mention never mind drive for independence from neoliberal NuSNP. Suppose once campaigning for HR 2026 begins they’ll remember the vote garnering catchphrase and start conning us again while they focus behind closed doors on the repugnant issues that really are held close to their hearts.

NuSNP isn’t for independence. As it’s got zero intention of stepping aside and letting others have a go at achieving independence then it remains a stumbling block, not a pathway.

The boil needs lanced and uncompromised party/ parties actually serious about independence and the independence movement space to grow and give the 50%ers (give or take) someone to vote for again.

Alf Baird

Yes, Neo Liberalism (aka ‘Neo Imperialism’) and Nationalism are polar opposite ideologies; Nationalism is the only longstanding bulwark against Imperialism and the latter’s domination of peoples by alien cultures.

Young Lochinvar

Correct.
Some idiot down ticked my agreement with you and bizarrely my posts have gone to (presumably) bot moderation.

Mac

Nowhere in the definition of Genocide does it mention a minimum number of people killed… Quite the opposite.

link to treaties.un.org

You would think that David Lammy who is a human rights lawyer would know that… wouldn’t you.

Pretty much sums up the Starmer government that they have the equivalent of Gen0cidey McGen0cideface on here BTL as their Foreign Secretary.

This is the most repulsive UK government I have ever seen by a considerable margin. Starmer is horrific.

Last edited 1 month ago by Mac
Hatey McHateface

“Nowhere in the definition of Genocide does it mention a minimum number of people killed… Quite the opposite”

Of course, “Mac”, of course. Took one of your intellect to suss it out, and one of your bravery to post about it on here.

Just think about it “Mac”. With no minimum number, a single death is Genocide.

And now you’ve blown it open to the entire world, even knowing as you do, that the Genociders are out there, busily Genociding away, and that just one death counts as Genocide.

Respect, “Mac”.

Geri

The definition is very clear.

The United Nations defines genocide as the intentional destruction, in whole or in part, of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. This can be done by: 

  • Killing members of the group
  • Causing serious mental or physical harm to members of the group
  • Deliberately inflicting conditions of life that are intended to physically destroy the group
  • Imposing measures to prevent births within the group
  • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Hatey McHateface

Killing members of the group”

Aw naw, Geri, in that case, every fatal spat between tribes since the dawn of history has been a Genocide! Fact!!

“Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group”

But … but … you’re all in favour of that. How many times have you been on here justifying poot’s theft of Ukr kids?

I make it 146 🙂

Quick, Geri, make up a new claim and spin us a new number or two. Your current ones are bust.

znovak

Bingo! Each point is a check for what Rs are doing in U. 20 000 kidnapped U children are surely enough.

Geri

Yes, based on absolutely no evidence & without seeking explanation from the other side. He just took Zs word for it lol They’re all alive, well & accounted for & were simply relocated out of a war zone for their own safety. They’re not in the habit of just mowing down or just blanket bombing innocent civilians – whit a shocker eh?? Bastards! They should just be like us & not give a shiny shite..

Still, wasn’t it amazing that the ICC could not only issue a verdict & a warrant in super duper record fashion but it also defies logic that P, who isn’t a signatory to the ICC rules, should answer for his crimes & surrender himself immediately – while Yahoo, also not a signatory, doesn’t have to. He can just take his own sweet time. He’s not to worry himself.. Everyone just plans to ignore it.

I call that Bingo on the hypocritters square.

& There was us thinking lady justice was supposed to be blind & served without fear or favour..

Last edited 1 month ago by Geri
Hatey McHateface

“hypocritter”

For some reason, Geri, your post made me make up the word “hyposhitter”.

Not quite sure what it means yet, but keep posting and everybody in the entire world will eventually work it out for themselves!

Gordon

You don’t half post some shite on here…

Hatey McHateface

You must have spent many hours assembling that comprehensive refutal of my arguments, so please advance me the courtesy of some time to assemble my own detailed and reasoned response to your allegations.

Geri

Labour voters can’t really complain. Sir Kid Starver flip flopped & lied long before he was even elected.

He lied to win the leadership contest then promptly started expelling it’s members from day one & all it’s Corby supporters/councillors, MPs & then Corbyn himself. It’s not just him but the party mafia surrounding him. I recommend watching the Labour Files if you haven’t already. They’re completely controlled by the Isr lobby too which explains their near permanent state of climax at the slightest whiff or rumour of anti-Semitism somewhere or will even just make it up if pickings are slim..

The labour party doesn’t need membership subs now that they have rich donors.

Hatey McHateface

The Mafia & The Dews, eh Geri?

You know what, if you believe any of the pish you push, you should join them. That’s an unbeatable combo you’ve conjured up to set yourself against. 🙂

Are you really so positive that between them, they can’t get the F16s off the ground?

Geri

Naw, the Zzzs.

That satanic cult that even the ‘dews’ despise & are implicated by association cause they bandwagoned their cause & replaced it with their own & the Anglo Americans played along cause it gave them some real estate to be anti social fckwits & an excuse to pretend they were entitled to be there slap bang in the middle of a region they’d fck all business being in…

But do carry on… No one is buying the rubbish that some European or Ozzie is entitled to be there cause of a book …lol

I see you lapped it up tho..there’s one born every minute..

gregor

BBC (2022): How do you define genocide?

“In 2001, Gen Radislav Krstic, a former Bosnian Serb general, became the first person to be convicted of genocide at the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY).

Krstic appealed against his conviction, arguing that the 8,000 people killed constituted “too insignificant” a number to be a genocide. In 2004 the ICTY rejected his appeal.”:

link to archive.ph

Wikipedia: This list only considers acts which are recognised in significant scholarship as genocides:

G**a Genocide: 2023 – Present: Proportion of group killed:

Low estimate 45,500

High estimate: 186,000

link to en.wikipedia.org

Hatey McHateface

It certainly shortcuts this entire justice thingie, eh gregor?

Accuse somebody of “genocide” and then move right onto the punishment. Trials, evidence, blah, blah, are all so tiresome and time consuming.

We should adopt the same approach for murder, witchcraft, and impersonation of a senile dementia sufferer. Just pronounce the guilt and UNLEASH THE BEAVERS 🙂

But to be serious for a mo, there’s a key indicator of genocide that’s missing in the subject you and others like to perpetually wang on about.

Genocide can’t be stopped by a simple act on the part of the victims. It’s far, far more existential than that.

So why don’t you adapt and adopt a new wang. Call for the humous boys to release the hostages and then your wee, pretendy “genocide” will stop and everybody can go home and live happily ever after.

It’s a truly remarkable reality that nobody quite seems to be able to acknowledge. The humous boys are happy enough for the agony of their own people to continue indefinitely. They rank just keeping hold of the hostages as far higher in importance than anything their people are going through.

We should grant them the right to choose their own beds and then insist that having done so, they lie on them.

But you won’t do that, of course, for if you do so, you will have to accept that your “genocide” is actually a voluntary situation.

Geri

You seem oblivious that the ICJ has already ruled that Isr will have a case to answer to. They’re only taking their sweet time on the warrants which ironically should be a war crime in itself because countless ppl have suffered since.

& No one is buying yer absolute pish that an invading oppressor has rights to blanket bomb an entire civilian population *to defend themselves* If they hadn’t been such bastards in the first place there wouldn’t have been an open air concentration camp breakout in the first place…

Yahoo doesn’t want the hostages. He’s made it repeatedly clear he doesn’t give a fck about them. He even went tonto to gen-ocidal Joe for daring to pass off a peace deal as coming from him.

Supposedly he has cancer, quelle surprise. He’ll be taken out before he ever sees the inside of a court. It’s the yankie way – can’t have them blabbing all sorts & running off with their mouths implicating others..

gregor

“there’s a key indicator of genocide that’s missing in the subject you and others like to perpetually wang on about.”

The information I posted came from the BBC and “significant scholarship” (take your issues up with them ?)

“But you won’t do that”

You don’t control what I do (and your gregor predictions suck), however, I can tell you, with great confidence, that the world is having unity, peace and harmony (mark my words:)

gregor