As you mean to go on
Nicola Sturgeon turned up to the COVID inquiry today in a car with no MOT certificate.
Which raises a couple of questions.
(Although we know she has form for this kind of thing.)
As the DVLA website notes, some vehicles are exempt from MOT requirements.
But the only one that could possibly be relevant here is the one for police cars.
But in that case the DVLA site returning a specific date for the expiry, six years after the vehicle’s registration, would be very strange. Vehicles which are exempt generally don’t have an MOT record at all, and the DVLA site will return a green “No data held” box, not a red expiry one.
In any event, we know Sturgeon hasn’t had a police security/vehicle detail for months.
To the best of our current knowledge, Police Scotland doesn’t generally provide a free chauffeuring service for absentee backbench MSPs to go about their work duties, and we’re sure the former First Minister must have plenty of people who could give her and her bodyguard a lift.
But it definitely does seem to be a police car, unless those are disco lights.
So readers may reasonably wonder what we’re not being told.
Alf Baird. @ 9.50.
When did Fanon write all that about colonisation.I am just curious because that is a pretty accurate description of the SNP
Andy Ellis @ 10:57 am
“So what qualifies one”
According to Albert Memmi: independence is ‘a matter only for the colonized’.
Yes, the colonialist on the left may be sympathetic to the independence of an oppressed native group.
But, ‘what the colonized do with their freedom concerns them only’.
‘To understand this point, it is necessary to keep in mind an essential feature of the nature of colonial life; the colonial situation is based on the relationship between one group of people and another. The leftist colonizer is part of the oppressing group and will be forced to share its destiny, as he shared its good fortune.’
‘Being oppressed as a group, the colonized must necessarily adopt a national and ethnic form of liberation from which he (the colonizer) cannot but be excluded.’
Here are my view on racism.
I believe everyone on this planet is racist and that is perfectly normal.
Sure we have been brainwashed into believing that it is a very bad thing so now we all go around pretending we are not racist.
It’s unnatural.
Sure Humza is racist just like me. He wants to be the same as everyone else. I believe he did write that he always felt different. His parent decided to move to an all white Christian country which guaranteed being a Muslim & brown skinned he is going to be different.
We can pretend that he’s not different just like we are expected to pretend that transwomen are women.
I think everyone should cut out the ‘conversion therapy’ and stop trying to make people into something they are not.
I believe we are expected to pretend because the government fucked up for some reason. Who knows.
Now we have a multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-religion society with everyone living in different communities all wanting to be surrounded by people of the same race & culture. All racists.
It’s possible the white race voted for Brexit because they are racist and Asians voted for Brexit because they are racist.
No worries Hautey I will carry on pretending. I will pretend that I am not racist and I will pretend transwomen are women.
The conversion therapy hasn’t worked but I can pretend. I have done a lot of pretending in my life.
It’s necessary to pretend for a quiet life.
Just to lighten things up a little here’s a YouTube video about pretending: 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNEX0fbGePg
She’s a YES.
Thanks, Geri and kudos to you, Ruby and Anthem on the night shift.
There’s a shorter version on the same theme from another economist, Steve Keen on Hard Talk. These two, Hudson and Keen (Hudson must be in his 80s) found each shared the other’s views. They have been outsiders as a result of their wisdom.
I like Hudson. He has such a great breadth of knowledge. Well worth a listen though I find him a little hard to hear.
Also, he is one of the researchers behind the Land Tax study to which I linked upthread.It’s not so hard to do.
@Alf Baird 11.52am
I’m not really interested in your paraphrasing of Memmi or Fanon or what others have written about non analogous situations though Alf.
I agree that independence is a matter for Scots, it’s a matter of who you include in the Scots “demos” surely? You’re going to have issues domestically and internationally if your try to restrict rights to the “ethnos”, which logically would have to include putative citizens in the diaspora, wouldn’t it?
If you exclude “some” Scots residents on the basis that they don’t qualify as Scottish enough (or presumably wouldn’t qualify as citizens in an already independent state), you can’t exclude those abroad who do qualify just because they happen to be working and living abroad. The Catalans made provision for those living abroad to vote when they compiled their new voter register for the last referendum.
Scots should invite the worldwide Scots to vote.
Only fair if an EU citizen can.
Pray tell what “issues” Scots will have internationally?
Do Scots interfere in overseas elections?
You invent obstacles where there are none to try force your opinion.
The people of Scotland will decide her own country’s franchise. You concern yourself with yours.
You can start by gathering the Green ink brigade together & sending a deluge of angry letters on the English government over its grossly unfair franchise & how they have to change it for foreigners by order of Andy & chums.. world authority on elections.
Alf @11.52am.
Excellent comment Alf, keep em coming.
I did try to track down the debate in the Commons about the 2014 Indy Ref franchise. I got close.
Found this
https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/scottish-independence-referendum-franchise-bill
I believe this bill was discussed on the Commons. aorund 13th or 15th March. Not sure
I thought this was interesting
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm130115/debtext/130115-0003.htm
Anas Sarwar
I have some concerns. To date, the SNP rhetoric on transparency and fairness has not matched up to the reality of its behaviour. On the very subject of today’s debate, let us not forget that just one year ago the SNP said that it did not need a section 30 order for the referendum to be competent. Alex Salmond said to the Scottish Parliament:
I don’t think this was the debate about the franchise but I’m not sure.
There were quite a few (bloody loads) debates about Scottish Independence around that time.
The debate about the franchise should be on Parliament TV it’s just not that easy to find. Particularly difficult for me being that I know nothing about politics. I don’t know for example what would happen with the
https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/scottish-independence-referendum-franchise-bill
Did you see the video where Alex Salmond is asked about mentoring Sturgeon and he replies ‘she didn’t listen’?
I wonder if she didn’t listen when Alex Salmond said
‘Scotland did not need a section 30 order for the referendum to be competent’
FAO MAC
Have you got an answer for me
https://wingsoverscotland.com/as-you-mean-to-go-on/comment-page-2/#comment-2822603
“SUPPORT for independence is sitting at 53 per cent, according to the latest figures from Ipsos.”
Yeah we know so what, even with a determined (to keep us in the union) colonial administration good support for returning Scotland to its previous status before the union just won’t go away, imagine how it would be if we had the right people in office- the sky’s the limit as they say.
Acknowledging a race of people in of itself is not racist..it is pride in your people or nation, and a sense of belonging and having roots. In a community that shares like minded values and morals.
What is racist is when another body of people from a different race, enter your nations space and area, deride and mock that race of people, colonise and overtake your laws and morals, to impede that nation or race, , your resources and assets , fight and lie to you, to eliminate your opinions, your beliefs, to delete your history, and taking away your right to speak freely on those wrongs.
Thats racism.
That is Colonialism.
Cheers Ruby.
I forgot to thank you yesterday for your advice.
Interesting that an English parliament discussed Scottish independence when it’d have been absolutely nothing to do with them.
They’re a completely separate sovereign nation butting it’s nebb into this one.
Sarwar is also wrong & hope Salmond ripped him a new arse. Dewar gave assurance that Holyrood would not halt or obstruct Scottish independence. (the gentleman’s agreement Sturgeon trashed) As with everything else with those sleekit fckers – he should’ve got it in writing. That agreement popped it’s clogs along with Dewar.
And hark at the incomer to Scotland, Sarwar there – as ever the privileged democracy denier that knows hee-haw of the country he claims to serve. Give these roasters a vote on our Sovereignty – aye, get yerselves tae…lol
I’ll check out you & Sam’s links when I get back – thanks again.
Also. Alf – keep up the good work. There are plenty who are interested in your posts & your sources.
Is there any predictions on what happens next in the cycle? I hope it’s a complete rejection of the great pretenders..
@ Marie M at 11:51 am
I will let Alf respond to your question, but there are plenty other descriptions of political theory that fit the bill too.
Have a read of this and see how well it describes the NuSNP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
@Geri
Issues with international recognition. Independence without recognition isn’t a great option.
It’s not an invented obstacle just because you haven’t hear led of it or don’t think it matters.
I agree the people of Scotland will decide the franchise, whether it’s different from the one they agreed in 2014 or something different. It’s our choice: there’s no evidence that those advocating for changing it have appreciable support. If they gain it and persuade enough Scots to support indy then it’s a done deal. It’s just getting there from here that’s the issue.
I don’t have to do anything with those who agree with me: we’re already the overwhelming majority. It’s the nativists that have the work to do. So far they’re coming up empty. Imagine our surprise.
Post got lost or maybe it didn’t. I’ll post it again with extras.
I like the idea of them coming here and us going there
For your holidays?
I like the idea of people from Europe coming here to stay and me going there.
No problem with racism ‘cos we are all the same race. We are all Europeans hence similar culture .
I know there are people who don’t agree with that they are called Brexiteers.
Brexiteers are definitely racists and on top of that they are anti-foreigners.
Xenophobic! Yeah! that’s the word.
So maybe before trying to convert the racists we might want to start on the Xenophobes.
@Geri
Sarwar was born in Glasgow. Is there some other reason you think he’s an incomer?
James Che
We can now add elections to that list too..lol
@ Geri
Ach, Ellis has convinced me that as it is the international community’s standards and outlook that we have to conform to rather than our own, I think the best way forward would be for us to have a franchise that completely excludes all Scots and we just let every other person on the planet vote to determine what’s best for us instead.
Anyway, it’s back to stonework for me today which is a great way to keep warm on a bright but cold day. Hammer in one hand and chisel in the other carefully whacking out the cemented in modern engineering bricks that tied the old extension wall to the original house stonework.
Then dressing replacement stones to size for filling the voids in preparation for when the weather warms enough to use lime mortar.
Those old traditional building methods using local stone and slate being way more ecologically sound practice than the shite imported materials and methods used to build modern houses.
Andy Ellis @ 12:10 pm
“to include putative citizens in the diaspora”
Funny you should mention that, because it is the global norm, and is also what the UK Government are now doing for Brits overseas:
“New legislation comes into force which means that from 16 January, British citizens can now register to vote in UK Parliamentary elections, no matter how long ago they left. This right to vote includes UK Parliament general elections, by-elections and recall petitions. Previously, only British citizens who had been registered in the UK within the past 15 years were eligible to vote. This is a key Government policy which changes the franchise for British citizens overseas and is an important part of upholding democracy.”
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/who-can-vote/other-registration-options/voting-if-you-live-overseas
However, this does not appear to alter the highly irregular local government (residence-based) franchise dumped on Scotland for oor ain national elections or ‘generational’ constitutional referendums subject to postal vote manipulation.
There is clearly a lack of consistency, and with the Belfast Agreement defining ‘the people of Northern Ireland’ as ‘the people born there’, the option to hold a referendum on re-unification every 7 years, plus UK Gov allowing Northern Ireland to remain within the EU trading area, which violates the Treaty of Union.
Scots are being discriminated against and treated very differently in all respects, not that oor daeless national party elites or intellectuals seem to have noticed.
@ Mac says: 7 February, 2024 at 10:15 am
So we are colony within a colony, like a nightmarish Rus$ian doll
Great news, somebody else has noticed.
I’ve been maintaining for some time now that if you want to check out who’s really colonising who, just spend a couple of evenings watching TV.
Not just the content, but the ads too. In fact, it may be that the ads are more telling, because they have to appeal to the audience in a very short time frame.
Once you twig, you won’t see many ads that are not pushing the colonising narrative. And once you recognise it for what it is, there’s no going back.
So yes, there’s some truth in Alf’s “Scotland as colony” idea. But it’s a partial picture. Cos there’s exactly the same truth in the “England as colony” and “Chunks of Europe as colony” ideas too.
The ECHR was embeded in the devolution settlement,
The “right to self determination” and liberty” of freedom which parallels the Claim of right in Scotland as part of a treaty is being denied by Westminster to the only other race and nation that is supposed to be in a treaty of united union with them to create the Great in Great -Britain.
However (Westminster parliament has Colonised the fallacious treaty of Union) itself in racism to the detriment of their one and only union partner that creates the Great in great- britain,
Westminster parliament forgets in its bias racist Colonialism that they decided legally ( NOT ) to go ahead and invite the Scots nation of people into the treaty of union by their own admission in 2022, 2023, 2024,
As written for the whole world read whenever anyone visits or reads the UK parliament site.
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Maybe before trying to get people to accept Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism we might want to work on the problems we have here with Catholicism.
I was going to add & Protestantism but the only problem seems to be their problem with Catholicism.
They of course are not racists just bigots. Aye right!
I did see a young woman singing at a football match about how she would rather be Pakistani than Catholic.
I should add that I have problem with all religions.
Buddhism might be OK. Although that isn’t exactly a religion.
I like the idea of all sentient life being precious.
(except of course the ones I like to eat) yum! yum!
I try not to look at my beefburger and think this beefburger may have been my mother in a former life.
I like pick n mix Buddhism.
@Alf, thank you for your reply re land and water ownership. Water is going to become a serious issue in the near future.
With regard to Yusafs ant white speech, Sarwar made the same speech in the same parliament and we have been brainwashed into accepting the unacceptable. Some on here call John Main Genocide John and it completely flew over your heads that Hatuey called for your actual genocide via mass uncontrolled immigration into Scotland, he/she stated a desire for the population of Scotland to rise by a multiplication of ten via immigration. For those of you who are not in the cities and have a level of self sufficiency off of the land, you will be the new Kulaks, you are already being targeted for decolonisation via colonisation. Anyone not bowing down for the chop is a “racist prick”.
@Andy Ellis, anti white racists are not fired, they are promoted as a reward, see Yusaf, Sunak and the woman at Cambridge who was promoted to full Professorship after stating that white lives matter too much. This is justified by announcing that it is impossible to be racist towards a white person.
I have spent decades amongst the Left, I know how this system works, declare that you stand against all forms of oppression whilst having it rendered into law that it is impossible to oppress a white person because they hold all of the levers of power even if they are not in possession of a pot to piss in. Do not be afraid of people like Hatuey when they threaten to wipe you off of the face of the Earth or Andy Ellis when he threatens to have you fired, stand up to them.
Dan
If I understand Mark Beggan correctly, I think you’re going to LegoLand.
Check out how they build their houses there. There might be some good ideas you could borrow.
So is Anton number 1,000 or was it Ruby??
Ruby “No problem with racism ‘cos we are all the same race. We are all Europeans hence similar culture .”
The EU has a lot of citizens that are not your race and don’t necessarily have your culture. The EU wouldn’t let Scotland pick and choose. Some of them may have even been born English.
Do the Cataloians as a separate kingdom have a treaty of union with Spain?
As Scotlands old parliament used to with Englands old parliament, before Scotlands parliament was then extinguished under dissolution in In 1707.
What date did both parties, Catalan and Spain voluntary agree this treaty?
@Alf Baird
You’ve made this claim before: it’s false. Inclusive, residence based franchises are overwhelmingly the norm in self determination referendums. I’ve referred you to the evidence but you continue to deny facts. I’m not sure why that is. It doesn’t help what passes for your argument.
It’s perfectly legitimate to argue for changing the franchise, to explain why it’s necessary and convince others to accept your argument. It’s not legitimate however to falsely claim that the franchise used in Scotland is somehow unusual, or has been imposed against the will of the majority.
He’s from a different culture. Hence incomer to Scottish culture.
I’m wondering how Sarwar become an MP. Any money exchanged?
Different cultures have different views on these matters. Fair or not fair?
I hope this isn’t interpreted as bitchin’ but I find you keep saying the same thing over and over and over again Andy.
Is that fair criticism or not? Do you accept that Andy?
The devolution settlement breaches the treaty of union articles between England and Scotlands old “dissolved parliament” anyway..
The article that stipulates that hereafter there will be only one parliament in the United kingdom of GB.
Pat Blake you are nitpicking
Mornin Dorothy
Is there a £1000 prize on offer? If not Anton can have it.
Congrats Anton. You are a winner!
@Dorothy Devine. I am not a number, I’m a free man. If they try to kidnap me and stick me on Millport with only other prisoners to eat I’m ready for them.
@Ruby
Are you are missing winner?
See, The Fall predicted this with their twenty second album.
I’m off before someone comes along and says
I’ve got a thousand post of shit to choose from
Here’s my response to these anticipated posts
I’ve got electric light.
And I’ve got second sight.
And amazing powers of observation.
And that is how I know
When I try to get through
On the telephone to you
There’ll be nobody home.
I’m off before someone comes along and says
I’ve got a thousand posts of shit to choose from
Here’s my response to these anticipated posts
I’ve got electric light.
And I’ve got second sight.
And amazing powers of observation.
And that is how I know
When I try to get through
On the telephone to you
There’ll be nobody home.
I think Ellis is trolling.
How Scotland achieves independence is unknown. It might be a series of steps,with increasing autonomy, as in Australia.
When Australia became a Commonwealth country with autonomy except for foreign affairs (nudge, nudge) the vote that preceded that and provided the mandate for it, largely excluded women and Aborigines.
When given the opportunity to vote for independence, people tend to vote in favour and do so decisively, by huge margins.
Andy Ellis @ 2:04 pm
“It’s not legitimate however to falsely claim that the franchise used in Scotland is somehow unusual”
Are you seriously trying to say that the Scottish residence-based referendum franchise is the same as that used in:
– New Caledonia independence referendums (clue: ‘secondary criteria’ restricted non-indigenous votes)
– UK Brexit referendum (clue: UK citizens only)
– Irish referendums in 2015 (clue: Irish citizens only)
– Italian constitutional ref 2016 (clue: Italian citizens only)
– Expected Northern Ireland referendum (clue: only those ‘born in NI’ are defined as ‘the people of NI’ who are expected to make that decision)
It therefore remains highly irregular for a ‘country’ to use a local government (resident-based) franchise in a national referendum deciding a national constitutional matter. But we all know how hopeless and complicit the SNP are so this isnae really a surprise.
Pat Blake.
The UK parliament state in 2024 that they did not invite Scots nation into the treaty of union at all after a deliberate debate held on that subject.
That would mean the Scots as a nation and their land are not under any agreement to the treaty of union,
Being as the old Scottish parliament came under dissolution and the old parliament of England continued under the Upper House, the House of Lords, into the new parliament without Elections taking place,
Only Englands parliament is in the 1707 treaty of union with England.
Sorry for the late comment, but I have been busy.
NG’s story on burner phones is baloney. During the 1st two lockdowns I worked for an MP. Before lockdown I worked in both the WM & constituency office. During from home. I cannot think the telephony arrangement at Holyrood were any different to those at HR. At lockdown:
(1) All calls to the WM office were patched through to individual’s work computers. I could receive & call out through my computer at home.
(2) We advised constituents etc to call us on the WM office number. But a couple of times a day I checked messages remotely on the constituency answerphone – very few.So few we decided to ge rid of the phones which were costing the tax payers money in their rental charges.
I can see NO reason for an MP/MSP or their staff to use burner phones to carry on their work.
Andy Ellis.
The UK parliament have explained to the whole world who visits their parliament site that the Scots are not and were not invited to join in the treaty of Union,
Which you simply ignore.
So imposing a franchise on Scots votes to leave a union they are not in, seems a bit authoritarian don’t you think.
**Geri
Sarwar was born in Glasgow. Is there some other reason you think he’s an incomer?**
And?
He is a member of a foreign countries political party. What is he doing in our parliament interfering? He doesn’t serve the people of Scotland. He serves the people of another Sovereign nation.
He is also a Pakistani Muslim. He knows hee-haw about Scotlands constitution, our treaty & our rights under that treaty.
His boss resides in London. It’s time Scotland reconvened it’s own parliament with only SCOTTISH REGISTERED political parties standing in our elections & collecting a salary on our dime. Until such times as that happens he can STFU about Scotlands constitutional arrangements with another country & fuck off to an English constituency.
James Che, earlier you mentioned Catalan’s lack of treaty of union with Spain. The reason is that they were united by the marriage of their rulers the people had no say. By the same effect James or Anne (take your pick) united England and Scotland. The people were not consulted and the parliaments of the day bear no relation to modern democracy. In neither case was there a get out clause AFAIK. So, yes, Scotland leaving the UK without the UK government or King’s agreement is very similar to Catalan leaving Spain based on a non sanctioned local vote.
There is not a court that will take your claims seriously.
Not sure that any of that has any relevance to my comment to Ruby that the EU has a great many people now who are not ethnically or culturally European and accepting EU membership would not allow Scotland to discriminate freedom of travel based on place of birth.
**therefore remains highly irregular for a ‘country’ to use a local government (resident-based) franchise in a national referendum deciding a national constitutional matter. **
Exactly.
Using a domestic franchise no better than a county council election. A complete farce & isn’t this why they could break Purdah last time? Who from the international community could complain about a diddly wee domestic election being rigged.
The English government is moving to full F*scism & a perpetual Tory D*ctatorship by changing their franchise to the English living outside of the UK. The obvious bait there will be people’s pensions to keep them voting in their rigged elections but as usual, thats perfectly ok & not in the least bit alarming its just scotland that isnt allowed to run it’s own franchise on its own constitution.
I seriously doubt that roaster is in Alba. If he is it’s obviously to disrupt.
sam @ 2:50 pm
“When given the opportunity to vote for independence, people tend to vote in favour and do so decisively, by huge margins.”
This would also be the case for Scotland but for the fact that:
– approx half of ‘No’ voters are not Scots;
– approx half of ‘No’ voters are Scots but prefer to be Brits.
Both outcomes are arguably the result of colonialism: the first is to do with se***er occupation, the second cultural assimilation.
“The UK, like all democratic countries, sets out rules on who has the right to
register to vote. Most countries restrict voting in national elections to citizens
of their own country. Some countries allow citizens of other countries to vote
in local elections as long as they are resident.”
House of Commons Library.
Most countries. Citizens of their own country.
@ Alf Baird
You’re doing that thing nativists can’t resist doing again aren’t you? It doesn’t seem to matter how often the error is pointed out to you, you just can’t resist wheeling the same failed argument out again and again in the forlorn hope that it will somehow have become more convincing.
Only two examples from your list relate to self determination. All the others relate to constitutional votes or issues in already independent countries. New Caledonia is clearly a different case because it’s accepted as a colonial situation and the UN reinstated it on the list of non self governing territories in 1986 (against French objections).
As pointed out to you earlier the franchise for a future border poll in Northern Ireland is not specified in the legislation, and is in the gift of the Secretary of State to decide. It is not – as you claimed before – restricted to those born in Northern Ireland.
It does seem passing strange that you pull a couple of non-analogous examples out of a hat to bolster your argument, whilst ignoring the many more examples showing self determination franchises functionally identical or even more liberal than the 2014 indyref1 example.
Ruby
Regards Salmond..
‘Scotland did not need a section 30 order for the referendum to be competent’
He is absolutely spot on. We don’t need a section 30. WM only holds power of Holyrood, the Scotland Act..
NOT what happens outside of it.
A majority of Scots voting to hold a referendum is not a gift that is Westminsters to grant. Scotland is a sovereign nation & in a voluntary union. When Scots gave the SNP a clear mandate that serves as an instruction – not as Sturgeon & Co wish with the *I’ll think about it in my own good time* with her gold standard bullshit that handed Scots Sovereignty over to another nation to say no…
Pat Blake
The fly in your ointment with that we story is that Spain has a written constitution, no one can succeed.
Scotland also has a constitution – we’ll never be under English rule.
The UK doesn’t have one. It makes it up as it goes along.
Suffice to say – they have no powers over Scotland other than the dumb politicians we have in office gifting it to them on a plate cause they know hee-haw about our treaty & our constitution. The whole claim of right sails right over their heads as they worry about TRAs & every other non topic that bedazzles them in Western.
@sam
When Scotland is an independent country it will decide what the citizenship criteria are and use them for elections or any constitutional votes like other independent countries. From memory the plan in the indy white paper suggested the same criteria as Ireland would be used, so Scots born people abroad or those with Scottish parents or grandparents would be able to apply for Scottish citizenship, as would “New Scots” already living in Scotland.
Self determination referendums aren’t general elections, nor are the votes on changing the constitution of an independent state. The overwhelming majority of self determination votes since WW2 have used residence based criteria, not birth place, ethnicity or what the putative citizenship of residents would be.
A few have imposed residence criteria usually quite short, and 1 I’ve seen imposed a requirement for a minimum 55% vote in favour.
@Pat Blake
You must be new here?! The irrelevance of James Che’s hot take on the validity of the union to the current situation has been pointed out many times by many different people.
Sadly it does no good. Monomania isn’t readily reasoned with.
Much the same goes for those insisting the use of an inclusive, residence based franchise is not common practice for self determination votes because they’re not national elections, or that there are cunning non-parliamentary routes to indy using Conventions of the Estates, Salvo, or painting ourselves blue and dancing around the Stone of Destiny on St Andrews Day.
We’ve honestly tried to reason with such folk, however they’ve convinced themselves that indyref Tinkerbell is real.
Andy Ellis @ 3:42 pm
“Only two examples from your list relate to self determination”
Scots need not be limited solely by a focus on self-determination.
Scots are seeking to end a treaty-based international alliance, hence this is primarily a national (i.e. Scottish) constitutional matter.
Scottish constitutional law, protected by the (oft violated) treaty, should have a more prominent role, and might be expected to become more active in the matter.
The Scots are a sovereign people, albeit treated as a colony. We have a right to withdraw from or enter into treaties, tho are currently prevented from doing so by our oppressor.
‘Colonialism is force’. We should try to understand this.
Scotland is a sovereign nation. In a union with another Sovereign nation. Neither lost their Sovereignty on joining.
Therefore Scotland, as a sovereign nation, can end the treaty of Union when she feels like it & no one can say otherwise.
Back in 1707 the Scottish Parliament joined with the English Parliament. As evidenced by Scottish MPs in the UK Parliament today. They did not get an equal partnership because they didn’t get equal numbers of MPs. Arguments about the fairness of that should have been settled at the time. Any subsequent ‘constitution’ decided by Scottish MPs is worthless until you are an independent nation or Catalan could do the same. Whether you like it or not the union was endorsed in 2014 with a truly democratic vote. Conditions accepted by the Scottish Parliament and Scottish MPs at the time.
There is no Dick Barton way to get out of the UK – one bound and Scotland was free.
Andy Ellis 7 February, 2024 at 4:05 pm
“@Pat Blake. You must be new here?”
Not entirely but I do pop in now and then to see if the record has been changed. Nope.
They did get an equal partnership as both are Sovereign Nations. English MPs was absolutely nothing to do with it. They’re constituency MPs.
Catalan has absolutely zero similarities with Scotland. Yoons need to stop using it as a comparison. It’s as stupid as comparing apples with a turnip. Spain has written constitution locking Catalonia in. The UK does not have one locking in Scotland because they can’t. Now or ever.
@ sam at 3:36 pm
Indeed, I posted a link to the commons library page yesterday when looking into whether newly arrived refugees are allowed to vote.
Does a refugee really have an in depth comprehension of Scotland’s constitutional predicament and a long term commitment to Scotland’s future, or will they return to their homelands once the issue that caused them to be refugees resolves itself.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8985/
CTRL F searching “franchise” on here to find a specific post reminded me of that badger song…
franchise franchise franchise franchise franchise franchise
franchise franchise franchise franchise franchise franchise
nativist natavist
franchise franchise franchise franchise franchise franchise
franchise franchise franchise franchise franchise franchise
ooh it’s a moonhowler
Sing along for a mintue with new lyrics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI
Because yoons won’t change the record.
Scots Sovereignty doesn’t seem to register on the first outing.
Even tho constitutional experts are agreed, along with international lawyers & even our own court systems..
Yoons on a chat forum disagree that Scotland is a sovereign nation despite what the treaty says & Chucky taking oaths & claim of right ..yoons btl know best.
Dan
The NuSNP we’re so busy giving everyone outside of Scotland the right to vote that they forgot about the Scots who voted for them & whose constitution it actually belongs to! They also forgot to press ahead with the mandate first. The exact same thing they are doing with pegging our indyref to the EU.
It’s just delay tactics & tyre kickers with no notion of Independence since Salmond left & Sturgeons intake of dummies fae the LGBTQWERTYS2+++ tufty club has also wandered into the long grass looking for their rainbow bunting to see how much further they can piss everyone off..
Geri 7 February, 2024 at 4:39 pm
“They did get an equal partnership as both are Sovereign Nations.”
A meaningless statement. The UK Parliament has sovereignty over both countries. It has devolved some things to the Scottish Parliament but not the right to unilaterally leave or anything else that affects both nations (eg gender self recognition). Nowhere did Scotland get powers from the original sovereign (Queen Anne) to do its own thing. The public are not sovereign at all, in either country. In many way neither country is truly sovereign because we’ve signed up to all sorts of international agreements that take away Parliaments right to decide. It was even more so while we were in the EU.
Lol Dan
The furries!
Who knows, we may have a new Queen in our future at this rate.
*testing*
twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/status/1689422005433454592?
Pat Blake
Wrong. I’ve given the link to the Supreme Court Ruling.
Scotland can leave the treaty. Scotland possesses the authority. A democratic expression at the ballot box.
Yoons seriously need to drop the notion that Scotland can’t leave without Westminsters permission. It isn’t so..
Well that didn’t work but if you pop it in your browser you can see the Supreme court paragraph relating to Scots electing to leave through the ballot box.
Scotland isn’t locked in.
Scotland only has to vote for it. That’s democracy.
& What the useless SNP 45 must go because they know they could call this now but choose not to..
It doesn’t have Sovereignty over both nations.
We have a SHARED monarch by consent of the Scottish people.
That consent can be removed at any time we choose to remove it.
Otherwise the UK has made void the treaty themselves.
I don’t know which link you’re referring to Geri but –
“the decision of the Supreme Court providing legal certainty that the Scottish Government has no power to hold an independence referendum without the consent of the UK Government through the mechanism of Section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998;”
https://www.gov.scot/publications/supreme-court-decision-on-the-independence-referendum-foi-release/
@Dan 4.46pm
Fear not…it could be wall to wall Macrame-Your-Yoghurt-Pot-Good-Life more self sufficient than thou types droning on about solar panels and how to live on thruppence a day. 🙂
@Alf 4.10 pm
More wibble. Nary an answer hoves in to sight.
Why, it’s almost as if Alf is just talking out of his hat isn’t it alert readers?
Pat Blake
That is relating only to Holyrood.
Not the Scottish people. They have no jurisdiction here.
Pat Blake.
If you re- read my comment, it was a question with a question mark asking about Catalan and Spain.
Geri, the Scottish people don’t have sovereignty. Yes, when there is another referendum (and there will be) and if the voters vote for independence then it will be granted but you can’t demand a referendum. But even then the Scottish people won’t be sovereign, the Parliament of Scotland will be sovereign.
x.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/status/1689422005433454592?s=20
The UK government may or may not have the sovereign right to govern the Scots but they have a big fuckin army and they know how to use it.
England doesn’t have it’s own parliament as it just hijacks the UK parliament as its own.
Westminster uses first past the post with a restricted franchise. English local authority elections also use first past the post.
Scotland using a different voting systems and franchise for Holyrood parliament and our local authority elections does skew results, and it does have constitutional ramifications.
If the Scottish Parliament used fptp then there would have been less unionist representation, and possibly “nationalist” parties would have obtained a super-majority with the extra implications into play for the union and also that much mentioned international recognition.
Yoons can rant away all they like to diminish Scotland, but you never see them asking for Scotland to be equal in the union and implement the same fptp voting system their beloved London Rule uses.
Musings…
Is the reason so many immigrants in Scotland smoke a lot, not because they are nicotine addicts, but actually just so they can get a heat off the burning ciggie because it is so fucking cold here and energy prices to generate any semblance of warmth are so high.
I’ll need to check the price of and the calorific value of heat contained in a pack of smokes and compare it to how much heat can be bought from other more conventional fuel / energy sources.
Have mentioned this before but Scotland welcoming reams of chain smoking immigrants will impact on our all ready struggling health services that they haven’t paid much if any tax into.
Of course the positive of this type of immigration is that all those burning cigges will raise the ambient air temperature so at least all of us won’t require to turn the heating up quite as much as we would without all those tobacco fires burning.
NB. This post may or may not be acceptable to David Holden and all the lurkers, but as they can’t be arsed to get off the bench and onto the pitch to share their own input with us, they’ll just have to suck it up.
It won’t be.
It will return to popular Sovereignty.
Parliamentary Sovereignty is an English invention that has no place in Scotland.
The voters have already voted for a referendum. Six times.
*Now is not the time* democracy deniers & a spineless & loathsome SNP are our only roadblock. Not Westminster. Not a section 30. Not Nigel fae the pub..
The supreme court ruled the Scots possess the authority & a democratic expression at the ballot box is all that is required.
They have zip authority over Scotland or her territory.
Their wee diddly parliament ruling means nothing of what happens outside of it.
Okay, Fruitella, can you explain your point about immigration and environmentalism — you mentioned this last week and I assumed you were being sarcastic or something. Are you saying that because immigration involves travel it is at odds with environmentalism? I still think it’s funny. Is that supposed to be a serious point? Did I misunderstand?
You seem to think I’m a Marxist. I’m not. The stuff Marx said that was good was the stuff he stole (from people like Aristotle and Hegel). The rest was pretty boring and wrong, although swapping the word “profit” for the phrase “surplus value” was quite creative.
I think a free market system is probably the least worst of all the other options available, and maybe we should try it. What we call the “free market” today is anything but free; it’s riddled with cheating, corruption, and bullying Neanderthals that think they can bomb their way to success.
As for immigration, I’m going to avoid the subject where possible. I think people should be allowed to move freely, as I have said. They will anyway, you can’t stop them. We probably aren’t far away from some sort of catastrophe that results in billions rather than millions heading for western shores.
Do I think people who are against immigration are racists? Probably. I’d settle for xenophobic. Most are, in my experience.
Awaiting moderation?
Is that the end or have I used a banned word?
We can demand a referendum.
It’s called winning a mandate.
Cameron won one for Brexshiteers.
Regardless of what the other partner of the treaty thought Scots never told him any shite about *Now is not the time*.
& This is our problem of voting uneducated fuckwits into parliament because the more they let things slide the more the revisionist eejits will claim as their authority.
Scotland will hold a referendum or a plebasite when we choose to under new management.
Testing
Has franchise become a banned word
Ruby @ 18.28
In view of the fact that your query has been posted I guess it’s the latter option.
I’ll do it in small parts
Ruby
Ignored
says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
7 February, 2024 at 6:26 pm
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm130115/debtext/130115-0002.htm
This is the transcript of part of the transcript of the franchise debate held on 15th Jan 2013
Still looking for video recording.
Scroll down to An*us Sarwar. This is where he calls the SG a dictatorship.
Pat Blake.
Response to second part of you’re comment.
The “personal” ( not official) union between the Crowns of Scotland and England ended when Queen Anne ratified the treaty of Union,
And after wards proclaimed the Scottish parliament was under dissolution, (dissolved.)
This just leaves the parliament of England in the facticious treaty of union between two possible parliaments
The get out Clause for Scots is the UK parliament stating that they deliberated and debated wether to ask the Scots to join the treaty of union.
But they all agreed that it was better not to Ask the Scots because, in all likelyhood the Scots would vote NO.
This was agreed between commissioners, politicians and Monarchy. That the Scots would not be Asked.The ratification of the political treaty of union between the two parliaments, did not include the Scots.
And also eliminated the Scottish parliament in Westminster parliament.
A parliament under dissolution has no members.
The agreement in the treaty of union regards Monarchy over Scots also failed when the commissioners, the Monarchy and politicians made the decision not to include the Scots in the treaty of union.
The UK parliament site on their present up to date site still state they did not ask the Scots to join the treaty of union.
If Scots are not in it and have no obligation to the treaty of union have no shared Monarchy………..why do they need a vote or a franchise to leave?
Geri 7 February, 2024 at 6:20 pm
“It will return to popular Sovereignty.”
No such thing, nor did there used to be. Switzerland probably comes closest. Sovereignty used to belong to the king/queen. A little matter of a civil war or two and sovereignty devolved mostly to parliament. Sovereignty was never with the public. Not the English or the Scottish.
“The voters have already voted for a referendum. Six times.”
No, they voted for the SNP, who had the right to ask for one but not the right to either hold a referendum nor pull out of the UK without one.
“The supreme court ruled the Scots possess the authority & a democratic expression at the ballot box is all that is required.”
I still don’t see a link to a supreme court ruling on that or even a credible reference to such a thing. Theoretically freedom can be secured in battle but are you going to go that far and will the rest of the Scottish population endorse it?
“They have zip authority over Scotland or her territory.”
Except you’re still in the UK and none of the Scottish parties are arguing otherwise. One MP offering to tear up the union if she gets elected, doesn’t count.
Scotland’s future will not be decided by debate.
It’s future is already set.
It’s called fate.
Damn it was the Anas typo wot did it. Freudian slip!
Ruby
Ignored
says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
7 February, 2024 at 6:26 pm
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm130115/debtext/130115-0002.htm
This is the transcript of part of the transcript of the franchise debate held on 15th Jan 2013
Still looking for video recording.
Scroll down to Anas Sarwar. This is where he calls the SG a dictatorship.
Anas Sarwar
The Secretary of State talked about making sure that we follow the advice of the Electoral Commission, but I do not think that anybody in this place should be naive about the current make-up of the Scottish Government and the SNP. We have a majority SNP Government in the Scottish Parliament, but that is not a democratic place in the conventional sense; it is a dictatorship of one man sitting in Bute house, who will do not what is in Scotland’s interests, but what is in his own or his party’s interests. We need to be very clear about that as we go forward.
I know it’s badger, badger, badger but it’s a change from ‘Moses on Dope’.
Mushroom! Mushroom!
Well that’s it then, the Zionist PM has made it crystal clear that the slaughter will continue, lets see what the ICJ makes of this when the months wait is up.
“BENJAMIN Netanyahu has rejected Hamas’s conditions for a ceasefire and vowed to press ahead with Israel’s military offensive in Gaza until “absolute victory”.
Netanyahu made the comments on Wednesday shortly after meeting US secretary of state Antony Blinken, who has been travelling around the region in the hope of securing a ceasefire agreement.
“We are on the way to an absolute victory,” Netanyahu said, adding that the operation would last months, not years.”
“There is no other solution,” he added.
Andy Ellis says: at 5:37 pm
“Fear not…it could be wall to wall Macrame-Your-Yoghurt-Pot-Good-Life more self sufficient than thou types droning on about solar panels and how to live on thruppence a day.”
Well you can diminish and frame talk that is highlighting the seriously flawed polices being rolled out that are not green and are wasting significant amounts of taxpayers’ cash that way if you choose.
But rather odd to ignore the fact that support for returning Scotland to self-governance (something which you supposedly want) is being held back because the electorate have no confidence in Scotland doing well if we are to be governed by the low quality politicians that are foisting all the flawed and unwanted policies on us, and that is why I am calling it out so we can begin to get back on the right track with sensible, properly thought out, and confidence inspiring initiatives.
You may be well enough off and living in comfortable conditions so no great motivation or concern for things to get better soon, but a very large number of Scots are not in that position, and every day is a struggle to get by and that breaks people.
And the longer we are stuck in this political union, the less Scotland will have to work with should it return to self-governance because nearly everyday something else Scottish is sold off or trashed.
Did that make you sad Sven? Sorry!
When you get banned or sentenced to PMT you don’t get a phone call, right to an appeal or even one last post to say Good-bye to your friends.
You are just disappeared! Woosh and you’re gone!
Well that is not exactly true but the truth is boring. Who likes boring?
Ding! Ding! I spy another post saying
I’ve got a thousand posts of shit to choose from
‘Nobody Home’ Chez Pat? 🙂
I never did get an answer from Mac so I am assuming I am not the ‘masturbating spammer’
I did offer to disappear. Mac just needs to say the word ….. and offer some proof.
The question now is ‘Who is the the ‘masturbating spammer’. Can you give us a clue Mac
Also Is George Ferguson an Alba politician?
Maybe it just slipped her mind, a quick I’m sorry and I’m sure everything will be fine, well that’s what usually happens in politics.
“MICHELLE Mone reportedly denied she stood to gain financially from a PPE company – five months before £29 million of its profits were transferred into a trust for her benefit.
Leaked emails between Mone and the Cabinet Office revealed that a civil servant asked her to make a declaration that she had no conflict of interest in relation to the company, PPE Medpro, which she had recommended to ministers in May 2020, The Guardian reports.
Mone stated that she had “no conflicts whatsoever” and that she was not “entitled to any financial remuneration or financial benefit whatsoever”.
The former Tory peer eventually admitted to being involved with PPE Medpro, despite her past assurances she had nothing to do with the firm.
She is currently on a leave of absence from the House of Lords.”
“A Cabinet Office civil servant wrote to Mone, asking her for a “one-line statement to cover the lines we discussed so that we can document the declaration of no conflict”.
“She replied: “In relation to PPE Medpro Limited, I can confirm that I have no conflicts whatsoever in helping the company to achieve orders through the NHS. I am neither a shareholder of the company nor am I entitled to any financial remuneration or financial benefit whatsoever. You can put this on the record.
“My role is to help the NHS deliver on its PPE targets and to ultimately save lives of patients, medical workers and carers.””
Ultimately to save lives Mone said, aw that’s sweet of her, she done it all out of the kindness of her heart.
https://archive.is/frJb8
Pat Blake.
The usual circumstances on not asking the populations on political matters seems to evaded the Commissioners, the politicians and Monarch, over the Sovereignty of Scots.
As they debated wether to ask them to join the treaty or not.
The Scots were obviously considered separate from their parliaments Status in Scotland, and the Monarchy , otherwise the debate and discussion would never have have been held by the commissioners and politicians in 1706/07. On wether to give the Scots a vote.
The result is that in 2024, the UK parliament still regards the Scots position as separate from monarch, and from the (old Scottish parliament. Dissolved long since in 1707).
The Scots are not in the same situation as Catalan at all.
But unionist try to conflate the two together to argue a mute point.
And The Scottish parliament once under dissolution in 1707 no longer existed in Westminster, or in the treaty, no longer had any Members. and could not represent any constituents of Scots or Scotland in Westminster parliament in England.
The Supreme Court of our Imperial Masters tell us a lot of stuff but then so do the UK Government ‘Better Together & their lawyers Crawford & Boyle.
ie Scotland does not exist.
But
I’ve got electric light.
And I’ve got second sight.
And amazing powers of observation.
And that is how I know
They are taking the piss.
Madre Mia they’ve even got a law saying a man can become a woman.
Kemi & Rishi think we are daft.
Maybe we are daft or as stoned as a badger, badger.
Mushroom, Mushroom.
Argh! Snake, a snake!
Ruby @ 18.57.
No reason your still posting should cause me sorrow or regret, it’s you who promised to ignore those who posted to John Main, not I.
And yet, here we are still communicating …
Hatue
“Okay, Fruitella, can you explain your point about immigration and environmentalism — you mentioned this last week and I assumed you were being sarcastic or something. Are you saying that because immigration involves travel it is at odds with environmentalism? I still think it’s funny. Is that supposed to be a serious point? Did I misunderstand?”
Now, is that you being sarcastic? Unless the idea of carrying capacity whooshed over your head, that is. Sustainability and self-sufficiency are at the core of ecological thinking and significant shifts in people and resources are a threat to such systems. Ethnicity is irrelevant.
The EU’s Four Freedoms are precisely what destroys self-sufficiency and sustainability. The immigrants you predict are being generated by policies for “economic growth” for us, ecological catastrophe for the powerless in target countries.
Scotland calling to the faraway clowns
Now Treachery declared and battle comin down
Scotland calling to the underworld
Come out of the cupboard you boys n girls
Scotland calling, now don’t look at us
Phony Nicolamania has bitten the dust
Scotland calling you can see we ain’t got no swing
Except for the wailing Tranny thing
The ice age is coming, the sun’s zooming in
Meltdown expected, the populations growing thin
Engines stop running, but I have no fear
‘Cause Scotland is drowning
I live by the river
Scotland calling to the No Go zone
Forget it brother we can go it alone
Scotland calling to the zombies of death
Quit holding out and draw another breath
Scotland calling and I don’t want to shout
But while we were talking I saw you selling out
Scotland calling we aint got no high
Except for the one with the Green fuckin eyes
Scotland calling yes, I was there, too
Well you know what they said? Most of it was true
Scotland calling at the top of the shite pile
After all this, wont you give me a smile?
Thanks to Joe Strummer for help with some of the words.
@Sven 7:25
Life’s a bitch and then you die.
And often, getting what you wish for can be worse than not getting what you wish for.
Geri 7 February, 2024 at 6:29 pm
“We can demand a referendum. It’s called winning a mandate. Cameron won one for Brexshiteers.”
Brexiteers had to wait 40+ years for another vote on Europe. During which time European control grew well beyond the initial mandate from joining. Cameron didn’t have to offer a referendum. Parliament didn’t have to agree to hold one. At no point did the public have sovereignty. Merely influence. Scotland had the same opportunity but chose not to depart. You still have influence but not sovereignty. So eventually you will be offered another referendum but from what I see, you won’t be ready for one.
This is very depressing, what’s wrong with these people?
“A new poll by the Israel Democracy Institute shows that about half of Israelis would oppose a deal to end the war in the Gaza if it includes Palestinian statehood and peace agreements with other Arab countries, and that only 39 percent think the Israel is ensuring the security of its citizens.”
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-06/ty-article/.premium/most-israelis-want-early-elections-about-half-oppose-palestinian-state-poll-finds/0000018d-7ec8-d636-adef-7eeec69a0000
@RoS 6:47
Let’s just say the situation is a little more nuanced than your post would have us believe.
There’s an innarestin article on the Guardian Online right now, if anybody is bursting to assess the impact of the Gazan War on Indy (spoiler alert – there isn’t any) [unlike the War in 404 – but I digress].
It takes two to tango, Ros. And thus, the statement “Hamas has rejected Israel’s conditions for a cease fire and vowed to press ahead” is equally true.
Netanyahu is defo fighting to survive politically – no argument about that.
The Hamas leadership are prepared to fight to the last Palestinian to preserve their skins intact and protect their foreign-domiciled cash mountains.
Ain’t reality a bitch? But these facts are chiels that winna ding.
The best thing for the Palestinians and the Israelis both, is a cease fire on both sides, with a compromise solution that can only be found when they both disavow their extermination pledges. And both sides release all hostages/captives.
This compromise will not only allow both sides to claim partial victory – it will leave the maximum numbers on both sides still upright when the shooting stops.
James Che 7 February, 2024 at 7:13 pm
When were the populations asked for their opinion in 1707? Was Scotland very different from England? Almost nobody had a vote back then. Major disputes were settled by war. Not long after there was the Jacobite uprising which was ‘settled’. Not legitimate by today’s standards but it was at the time. Did the English public want the Hanoverian Georges when Anne died? They weren’t asked. There comes a point where you have to accept that the past happened and trying to rewrite it is a folly.
I admire your energy for your points but I feel it would be far better directed at a vision for the future. I genuinely think that Scotland could be free of England but not without innovative ideas for how you’d change. With a great plan, you’d get those votes when the next referendum is offered.
Oops.
“Eastern European nation et al. vs RF – litigation backfires bigtime.”
“Eastern European nation and 34 other countries took RF to @CIJ_ICJ (International Court of Justice, not ICC) for alleged genocide because special military operation…
DECISION: There is no valid genocide claim against RF AND the Court will now examine whether the Eastern European nations longstanding actions against Donetsk Oblast… can be ruled out as being not genocidal.”
https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203515
@ Republicofscotland says: 7 February, 2024 at 8:02 pm
about half of Israelis would oppose a deal to end the war in the Gaza if it includes Palestinian statehood and peace agreements with other Arab countries
Any figures for the proportion of Palestinians that oppose Israeli statehood? I’m betting it’s higher than half. A lot higher.
Same seems to go for the Female Genital Mutilators (Iran) too.
In fact, it is opposition to peaceful co-existence between Israel and other ME countries such as Saudi Arabia that caused the FGMs (Iran) to kick off the Gazan War in the first place.
As you say: This is very depressing, what’s wrong with these people?
Ruby 7 February, 2024 at 7:07 pm
Sorry, but could you post that again but with Cliffs Notes? I understand the words but not the sentences.
John Main @ 19.57
I guess that in my own individualistic, self opinionated way I prefer not to be controlled by being dictated to in respect of to whom I am to post or not or else be sanctioned.
In that respect mayhap I actually resemble Ruby, in being a “Waldganger”, although there I devoutly hope the resemblance ends.
@ Republicofscotland says: 7 February, 2024 at 8:22 pm
Great news RoS.
We can all sleep sounder tonight in the certain knowledge there is no genocide going on anywhere.
These farmer protests in Europe are independence movements, nationalist movements.
The people of Britain (and NONE more so in Scotland) are kowtowed, domesticated, tamed, pussified.
Scotland is the nexus of national cowardice. A model of structural submission.
Go read Weegingerdug.
No doubt John Main will have a “Valid” excuse for this one as well.
American journalist Tucker Carlson has been placed on the Eastern European nations Myrotvorets ‘Kill List’.
Myrotvorets is the Eastern European nations Kyiv-based website that publishes a running list, and sometimes personal information, of people who are considered by authors of the website to be “enemies of the Eastern European nation” or, as the website itself states, “whose actions have signs of crimes against the national security of the Eastern European nation, peace, human security, and the international law”.
What is Tucker Carlson’s heinous crime?
He interviewed the leader of the RF.
I think my mistake was to expect more from you, fruit.
“significant shifts in people and resources are a threat to such systems.”
I don’t know where to start with that.
Have you any idea how ridiculous it would be to tell someone who just lost their family, their village, and their sanity in a war zone that leaving would be a “threat” to sustainability and self sufficiency “systems”? Are you literally nuts?
Unlike the above, this isn’t completely devoid of reason;
“The EU’s Four Freedoms are precisely what destroys self-sufficiency and sustainability. The immigrants you predict are being generated by policies for “economic growth” for us, ecological catastrophe for the powerless in target countries.”
The four freedoms and generally accepted dynamics of laissez faire models implies that the most efficient producers will survive, through specialisation, etc. That’s the theory. Reality is full of all sorts of distortions and historical factors that get in the way. The CAP, for example, was intended to protect French farmers, although they pretend otherwise, and that has done a lot of damage to livelihoods in the second and third world. But it worked for French farmers.
There are a million other issues that distort the functioning of the EU marketplace, but that isn’t an argument for abandoning it and if it is, you might tell us what you would replace it with because there’s a good chance it would be worse for everybody, including second and third world farmers.
That all said, it generally works and has benefitted most EU citizens who enjoy just about cheaper everything as a result, having removed barriers to trade, all whilst protecting workers’s rights and promoting standards that even post-Brexit Britain wants to maintain.
The inflation the UK is experiencing right now is directly exacerbated by Brexit, particularly in terms of reintroducing barriers to free movement and trade, and the extent to which that is true is a measure of the extent to which the four freedoms previously promoted efficiencies and savings for the people of the UK.
The case for Scotland in the EU is indisputable; we get cheaper everything, we get to sell all the things we have a natural advantage in, energy, whisky, tourism, etc., and we get access to labour which we are short of now and likely to be even more short of when we develop our industries and build more houses. There’s really no down side, except for those who have issues with foreigners coming here to help.
Nothing is perfect but some things are less perfect than others.
As for the four freedoms,
She’s just terrible that Ruby isn’t she boys!
Everyone is talkin’ about her. Well at least those who are stuck for things to say are.
Sorry these post are one offs. 🙂
RoS, when do we get to see that interview, any idea?
Pat Blake
**Brexiteers had to wait 40+ years for another vote on Europe. During which time European control grew well beyond the initial mandate from joining. Cameron didn’t have to offer a referendum. Parliament didn’t have to agree to hold one. At no point did the public have sovereignty. Merely influence. Scotland had the same opportunity but chose not to depart. You still have influence but not sovereignty. So eventually you will be offered another referendum but from what I see, you won’t be ready for one.**
Away & behave LOL! The public wasn’t even aware what Brexit even was before it was announced they were having one. (& some still don’t) Brexshit was for the Tory party infighting – no one else.
Waiting 40 years is totally irrelevant. That was also another invention by the Tories. No one made them wait that long & that suddenly doesn’t transfer to Scottish independence.
A mandate is a clear instruction from the voters to carry out that mandate – not a request. That would render all elections completely pointless & Westminster devoid of democracy.
Westminster has no control over Scotland leaving. Absolutely none and our eejits need to stop playing along with their shit. If they wanted to leave Scotland they would just do it without all the bollocks they think they can impose on another Sovereign nation.
Republic
I heard that went extremely well & he was surprised V*ad towasn’t the two headed satanic serpent after all.
Good for him travelling. It’s about time the yanks woke up from auld nan telling them bogey man stories at bedtime.
But we’re aware they’ll just invent a new bogey man now that investigative jurnos are chipping away their propaganda cause the age of the internet doesn’t let them get away with their crap now.
Irannnn will be the next bogey man.
@ Republicofscotland says: 7 February, 2024 at 8:46 pm
No doubt John Main will have a “Valid” excuse for this one as well
American journalist Tucker Carlson has been placed on the Eastern European nations Myrotvorets ‘Kill List’
OFFS RoS, more hysterical spamming from you.
Carlson has been on the list since June 2023 cos he is critical of western support for 404.
And it ain’t a fecking “Kill List”, other than in the overheated environment of professional or partisan click-bait journalism.
The most recent figure I can find, from 2019, has 187,000 names on the list. I guess there will be a heck of a lot more now.
Probably including yours, eh RoS? But dinna fash, you won’t be needing one of these mirror-on-a-stick thingies to check under your car for bombs.
The “Kill List” trope is purely for reeling in the gullible, sparking social media frenzies, and selling ads.
Hatuey
Believers in liberal economics have always thought those of us who put biosystem viability above economic growth, nuts. When the problems we predicted started to get real they, as is echoed by your response, stuck to their guns, throwing a coat of green paint over their policies. These policies are not working, growth is eluding all attempts to generate it. The best they can do is a zero sum deal to keep enough tory voters onside for the next election. The wars are creeping closer.
You say carrying on with the same plan, despite the huge flaws you mention (because not mentioning them would look stupid?), will take us to the sunlit uplands. You’ve some nerve suggesting your favoured system will be the salvation of those abused and dispossessed by the very same.
I started by asking if you think environmentalism is intrinsically racist. I think you are saying yes, which is a view I gave encountered often these last forty-five years. I have the opposite view. Marx was a fan of what capitalist economics might do for productivity. I’ve seen what it is doing to humans and their nature and regularly confirm the insights of people I encountered in the Ecology Party in the late 70s and various remarkable but mostly unsung scientists since. The current Greens are not at the same level, muddled as they are by marxist ideas. You are not a marxist but your argument is where a lot of them seem to have ended up.
Hi Dan,
Didn’t know about the removal of gas. I know a couple of folk that run gas in their cars; they’ll be unhappy about that.
I was quite amused by the 30-year exemption, though, as only one of the vehicles that I currently own is inside that; the oldest is 87 years old.
@10.31 typo
…a view I *have* encountered often…
@ Hatuey says: 7 February, 2024 at 8:52 pm
The inflation the UK is experiencing right now is directly exacerbated by Brexit
That is correct, but it’s also just part of the story.
The inflation the UK is experiencing right now is directly exacerbated by and primarily caused by (in decreasing order of effect):
1. The War.
2. The Chinese Flu.
3. Brexit.
There’s really no down side, except for those who have issues with foreigners coming here to help
That’s just weasel words.
There’s plenty of countries in the world that have great numbers of foreigners coming to help. The key to that being a popular and sustainable policy for them is that after the foreigners have finished helping, they bugger off back to where they came from.
It’s not foreigners going to help that’s the problem, Hats, it’s foreigners going to stay.
The case for Scotland in the EU is indisputable
The case for Scotland in the EU is disputable, simply because nobody has a scooby about the terms and conditions under which Scotland would be allowed in.
You know that as well as I do, Hats.
It’s of great advantage to those pushing the EU agenda to kind of leave it as read that we will get the same deal as the UK did – a country with over ten times our population and economic clout.
For obvious reasons, that just won’t happen.
And then, we would need to have a negotiating team that actually showed some level of competence at negotiating. When you look at the recent record of ScotGov we can see how risible an idea that is.
The elephant in the room with all this endless discussion about being either for or against immigration is that Scotland doesn’t have control over the power of immigration (and all the other major powers) to develop a defined immigration policy that’s integrated into an overall economic strategy tailored to Scotland’s needs.
I’m not sure all these retired old English folk moving up here will be out building new houses, working on rigs and boats in the oil / gas industry, or installing windfarms. Though thank fuck they will be too old to climb up ladders onto roofs and into loft spaces to fit solar and ASHPs, so at least that’s one positive.
It’s hard to see much of a positive benefit to Scotland when crumbly old NuScots in the twilight of their lives rock up and procure properties at inflated prices which young Scots just can’t afford from a wage serving coffee and scones in the tourist season.
It makes it hard for young Scots to start and raise a family not having a home, but I suppose less pregnancies frees up NHS Scotland to do all the crumbly NuScots’ hip replacements and other expensive near end of life care.
Is there any benefit? I don’t know, maybe the Scottish funeral industry will see significant growth thus increasing our GDP to make up for the closing of Grangemouth.
Ruby
**We have a majority SNP Government in the Scottish Parliament, but that is not a democratic place in the conventional sense; it is a dictatorship of one man sitting in Bute house, who will do not what is in Scotland’s interests, but what is in his own or his party’s interests. We need to be very clear about that as we go forward.**
Aye, Sarwar was still smarting that Salmond won a majority.
Something his party never achieved & never will despite their best efforts to maintain perpetual Labour rule in Scotland.
Salmond had more of a mandate than some arse wipe from a London political party who has none. Salmond delivered what he said he would with only one mandate.
What has Sarwar achieved for Scotland? Zip but told to shut it & they wished they’d never agreed Devo. (Like that was their gift to give)
I hope one day that parliament changes to only Scottish registered MSPs. It’s a nonsense that a sovereign nation has agents from a foreign hostile nation on its soil. The same with the Tory (70 yrs + in exile & rejected) also sits as secretary of state for Scotland.
@ Derek
Good to hear you’re still running some older vehicles. I’ve still got a couple of classic VWs from when I did motorsport. One is a 79 and the other an 83 so both are now eligible to be tax and mot exempt. Plan was to ditch the diesel I have run for ten years as the road tax gets hiked every year even though I do very little mileage.
The plan for either of the VWs was to install a hybrid engine I’ve already built which is optimised to run on lpg/autogas, but looks like that idea has been screwed over due to the phasing out of filling points a fuel stations.
I could get a bit of machining done to the pistons and bleed off some of the higher compression that I engineered in to increase efficiency of running on gas, and instead just run it on petrol, but that would create more nasty emissions than the lpg/autogas. It really fucks me off all this pish as Scotland has a lot of gas but we don’t get the use of it, but France is promoting its use.
UK is happy to burn it as can be seen by 46% of leccy grid generation is currently being produced by gas. (CCGT gauge third from left)
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
What vehicle do you have that’s 87 years old if you don’t mind stating it online?
Genocide John sounding a wee bit wound up tonight.
His dream of a Fourth Re1ch in difficulties?
Myrotvorets (with a Langley address at the head of its page) did indeed dox people they disliked
and likes to post pictures of their corpses.
That’s what we’ll be, Dan.
The crumblees will take over & young Scots will move out seeking a better life elsewhere with a more rewarding standard of living. The clearances never stopped.
Holyrood will be an administration to spend pocket money on crumblies ill health & a perpetual Tory government will come with them.
Candidate Nikki Haley came in second in the Nevada Republican Primary.
She lost to ‘none of the above’ by a factor of 2:1
Lol
Spoiled ballots might be the way to go.
Biden can’t possibly win can he?
I’d have thought the gender crap would have seen them hammered.
Dan
My best mate had a VW Beetle when she passed her test.
I still remember the *Toot, toot & a wave* to other Beetle drivers.
Gawd, if my Dad was on here he’d tell off all his vintage motors. He was into that sort of thing & used to go to all the shows. He’d a Wolseley growing up. His pride & joy. Oot polishing his chrome lol. I still remember, as a teenager, breaking down at traffic lights & he’d to get the old bar out to give it a kick start. Oh the shame & embarrassment at the time…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o67HUvdphw
I just watched this and I was particularly interested in what Yousaf said about racism and how all the British Asian politicians got on well because they knew what it was like to experience racism.
Asians have been in this country for a very long time yet Asian/Muslims are still experiencing racism/bigotry.
Racism/bigotry is maybe something that just can’t be fixed. It’s maybe just all part of human nature.
Conclusion multi-culturalism doesn’t work for anyone.
I don’t feel guilty about Humza Yousaf etc experiencing racism. That guilt lies with the politicians who thought multi-culturalism was a good idea or his parents who thought it was a good idea to move to an all white christian country.
He reckons multi-culturalism works because UK Prime Minister, Scottish First Minister & Mayor of London.
Neither current UK Prime Minister or Scottish First Minister were elected and they are all still experiencing racism.
I don’t know much about Sadiq Khan except that he’s Muslim & super woke.
He’s Labour so the super woke bit is understandable.
I cannot be anything other than racist just in the same way as I cannot be anything other than transphobic.
I think he said the incident with the nursery was about bigotry and not racism which makes sense as the nursery owners were also Asian/Pakistanis.
I’d be surprised if Biden makes it to the election.
He said he was talking with Mitterrand at the G7 in 2021, the other day.
Maybe they won’t have the election.
Rudge Special; 500cc 4-stroke 4-valve single-cylinder motorbike. Austin 7 a couple of years younger, too. And then there’s the 80’s radge strokers that’re also exempt…
Asians have their own class system (I wonder where they picked that up) & are just as guilty of bigotry & racism.
He needs to get down off his cross.
Scotland has laws against discrimination, racism & bigotry & he’s overseen a shit load more being introduced.
His constant use of playing that card is becoming tiresome.
He’s privileged. The vote was rigged to shoo him in to high office. He wore his tartan kilt to a foreign kings wee swaree (Navids golden invite). He’s shuffled about Holyrood failing at everything. He’s got off with breaking the law. He’s had multiple shags & he’s bezzie mates with the queen of corrupt.
WTF is he still moaning for?
Sadiq Khan is a racist.
He claimed Scots wanting self governance were racists & bigots. He also started with the *separatist* shite like we were all terrorists too.
His jotter isn’t glowing either.
Fruitella, it sounds like you had your opinion on me prefabricated and no matter what I said in response you were going to roll it out regardless. That’s okay, I’m impervious to criticism, but in this case I think you made a mistake.
For one, I not only think climate change is probably going to cause untold mayhem, I think mankind is so full of hubris that he will walk right into it; I think we should prepare for disaster rather than pretend we might prevent it (I’m with Lovelock on this).
As for your claim that I think we should carry on as usual, we were talking about the EU and I think the EU is further down the road of addressing problems and imbalances caused by the free market than anywhere else in the world. If every country in the world played by the same rules as the EU, the world would probably be a marginally better place.
I’m pretty sure I suggested beefing up international law somewhere up there. The vast majority of us believe in the UN’s ideals, believe in international law, international justice, etc., but the organisations established to uphold these things have no way to enforcing anything. That’s the big problem right now and it’s no accident — the US and various allies have done everything possible to undermine every dimension of international law and order, because they are criminals and they know that playing by the rules would show them up as total failures.
Do I think environmentalism is inherently racist? No, I think it’s worse; I think it’s anti-human.
@ Hatuey says: 8 February, 2024 at 2:32 am
show them up as total failures
Figures for US southern border crossings within spitting distance of 250,000 for December 2023 alone.
Quarter of a million newcomers, every fecking month.
Here in the UK, it takes us about 5 months to get those numbers, but then we keep on going.
600,000 newcomers in the last year for which figures are available. Anybody betting on a significant reduction for this year?
Naw, thought not.
Some total failures, eh?
BTW Hats, hardly any time since you were banging on that the more immigrants a place gets, the more successful it is.
Do you ever think about what you are posting? Surely you’re not claiming that success and failure are the same thing?
In other news, I see McTernan the sage of NuLabour has returned. That’s them done for then….!
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1755362590094467572
Hatuey said: “ Do I think environmentalism is inherently racist? No, I think it’s worse; I think it’s anti-human.”
Well I’ve certainly seen that view before. Mostly the weirder protestant sects (prominent in US), a range of marxists (calling them sects wouldn’t be too far of the mark – their splits and schisms look rather similar to those found in the Lutheran and Calvinist world, just atheist versions), and those “loadsamoney” meets tory wide boy characters – well, we are trying to take their bone.
You’ve rejected Marxist, so which of the other two fits you – or am I short of categories?
John Main: “hardly any time since you were banging on that the more immigrants a place gets, the more successful it is.”
The US economy has benefitted massively from the flow of immigrant labour and if you search Google you will see that a million respected sources agree on that.
“ Immigrants Contribute Greatly to U.S. Economy”
http://www.cbpp.org/research/immigrants-contribute-greatly-to-us-economy-despite-administrations-public-charge-rule
Do you ever ready anything that isn’t neo-right American crap or The Daily Mail? There’s a million websites that could give you info on that, very easily found. You make this very easy for me.
Fruitella, I’m embarrassed for you. You’re openly admitting that you want to pigeonhole me from some assumed position of superiority. That’s a common trait with environmentalists — no nuanced understanding of human life, just blanket judgements that take “all humans are evil” as a given.
I love people, the more the better — every one uniquely interesting and amazing… this system that you have nothing good to say about, you know, the one that gave you your computer and your pampered lifestyle, it provides for about 8 billion uniquely wonderful people — in those terms it’s the most successful and effective system ever, some would say too successful.
How many lives would your fantasy economic model provide for, whatever it is? And feel free to explain it, as I have explained mine… we can go through it together.
Hatuey.
Apparently the interview has already been done, I haven’t seen it.
Geri.
Did it many in the West won’t be happy with Carlson.
Hats
So it’s a great success in one post and it’s a great failure in the previous one.
Wouldn’t it actually be a lot simpler and easier to fess up and say “whoops, messed up there”? It’s at least possible to respect somebody who owns up to their mistakes.
this system that you have nothing good to say about
Man, cognitive dissonance big enough to be seen from earth orbit.
Pat Blake.
Your dismissal yesterday of facts you want to ignore as it does not fit your vision of a united kingdom under a fallacious union is neither here or there seeing as the UK parliament site is making a state proclamation to the world.
The Scots are not in the treaty of union. They were not asked, they did not get a vote to join.
And this is still the position today according to Westminster parliament site statement to the world.
Not resigned to ancient history , but rather up to date on the UK parliament site in 2024.
Hatuey
Regards the USA benefits from immigration..
I should think so. The whole place was immigrants stealing the natives land lol
I also think Greens are anti human, anti fun, anti freedoms, anti everything, ban everything, burn anything, kill everything (especially reproduction) shag anything wine bar revolutionists. In their ideal world it’ll only be that cult on the planet munching on berries & singing to the bird. Even then there’d be a quota on berries incase the birds got upset.
Look at the state of Holyrood – one sniff of power & they go fcking space cadet burning through millions of ££s & leaving a trail of devastation & mayhem behind them.
Not content with that they think they’ll dabble in law & order now too. Jail everyone. Doesn’t matter if they’re not guilty.
& Their latest craze in the EU. Bug farms. Millions of bugs to make one can of pet food.
The Greens need to find & island somewhere. Fashion a biodegradable raft & sail on out there..
Hatuey
“How many lives would your fantasy economic model provide for, whatever it is? And feel free to explain it, as I have explained mine… we can go through it together.”
You’ve said that you support an economic system full of flaws that just needs to be tweaked to turn the mayhem it produces into Eden – or something like that.
Good talk.
GERI
You funny!
It’s inane comments like your last that make it easy for people to ignore you, John Main. You’re a strange absurdity, on one hand coming here to talk, on the other being so obnoxious that very few people want to talk with you. I actually felt sorry for you earlier in the week when I saw you fishing for attention and getting zero bites.
You should consider the above as constructive advice, as it was intended.
Anyway, why don’t you just talk ‘like normal people do’ if you are interested in a subject and want to share opinions? You probably consider it unmanly or something to show humility and understanding, but it is an essential requirement if you desire to socialise. The odd thing is you make some valid enough points at times; lose the tone and the insults and you could probably pass the Turing test.
Now, then, your point about the American economy and my apparent contradictory position is a good example of a reasonable point unreasonably made. The American economy has major problems which I would be glad to go through with you — most economies do. However, it has benefitted from a more or less constant stream of migrant labour. Is that nuanced enough for you?
Can you imagine, not all things or all people fit neatly into your primal subcategories of “good” or “bad”, many are both, and there isn’t one thing anywhere, not even the smallest atom, that isn’t complicated.
You should learn to embrace complexity, it’s wonderful. Go forth and modulate.
Geri: “I should think so. The whole place was immigrants stealing the natives land lol”
They even cultivated the land with people stolen from overseas and when they couldn’t do that any more they rebranded as “home of the free” (darkly hilarious really when you consider the foundational role of slaves in the cotton fields, labouring away on the graves of dead “Indians”), beckoning poor people from every corner of the world to come over for a slice of the action.
The United States is a monument to the economic benefits of migrant labour.
Geri “The public wasn’t even aware what Brexit even was before it was announced they were having one. (& some still don’t) Brexshit was for the Tory party infighting – no one else.”
That’s why you have to pay attention to what parties are offering and or who they choose as leader. There were three election when the public had a chance to stop Brexit.
“Waiting 40 years is totally irrelevant.”
No it’s not. It was a reasonable time frame to give the union time to develop for good or ill. Joining or leaving a union is a big step and shouldn’t be taken every few years. The EU wouldn’t want Scotland if it wants to play the hokey cokey with membership.
“A mandate is a clear instruction from the voters to carry out that mandate”
Parties never deliver all that they promise. Ever. They often don’t have the power to deliver what they do promise. They also don’t limit their promises to just one. So when you vote, you hope to get some of what you want and less of what you didn’t want from the parties you didn’t vote for. Often you will be disappointed, no matter who gets in. That is the nature of a democracy. People voted for the SNP and got the SNP. The SNP promised independence but they didn’t have the legal powers to achieve that.
“Westminster has no control over Scotland leaving.”
Except it does and the evidence it does is because you are still in the UK. The SNP weren’t prepared to risk a) breaking the law, b) seriously annoying Scotland’s main trading partner (the UK) and c) upseting it’s second greatest trading partner and future union (the EU).
James Che “They were not asked, they did not get a vote to join.”
Neither were the English. Nor were the Scots given a vote about whether they wanted to be part of a country called Scotland. But the residents of Scotland were given the chance to vote to stay in the union and the majority did.
“Not resigned to ancient history , but rather up to date on the UK parliament site in 2024.”
Some historical events have to be considered fact, regardless of why they came about. We don’t get a vote on lots of things but it doesn’t mean we can ignore them.
**No it’s not. It was a reasonable time frame to give the union time to develop for good or ill**
Fine. We’ve had 317 years to give the union time to develop. It hasn’t.
What you need to understand is that Scotland is a sovereign country. It doesn’t need permission, timeframes or % dictated to us by another Sovereign country.
The Union is a trading treaty. A trading treaty that restricts another country to a domestic market while asset stripping resources to prop up a failing neighbour next door.
Once you understand that the penny may finally drop.
Once you had your *advisory* referendum – did you seek talks with your Sovereign partner in the Union about compromise? No. You didn’t . You run off to a province & gave one to them instead.
Did the EU say No -You can’t exercise democracy right now. It’s not a good time for us. Try again in 40 years. Oh & make it 99% over at least another 40 years polling & don’t forget yer article 55 – we at the EU will hold a vote amongst 27 member countries & see if we find it to our liking first.
You had three elections to confirm Brexshit. Good for you, we had SIX to confirm Independence. A clear instruction to exit.
Scotland didn’t vote to remain in the Union. New incomers did who shouldn’t have been given a vote. Scotlands constitutional arrangements & int treaty was fck all to do with them unless Scotland was their home 15 yrs plus.
Yoons are democracy deniers & that never ends well.
But I’ll tell you what, seeing as you are so agreeable to giving things a good go first, let Independence try it.
If it’s no good – you would always take us back wouldn’t you? You loving us so much.
As for the ancient bollocks. It’s still very much alive. A super new state wasn’t created. Scotland & her territory remains intact. No one extinguished her as a Sovereign Nation. The treaty would be void.
It already is. We just need someone to implement it.
The Union is dead. & Denying democracy is only adding more nails..
**Neither were the English.**
That’s because you had a monarch with a divine right to rule.
Scotland never had the same set up & why both were completely incompatible from the get go. Scotlands monarchs were on parole. They had one job. It is the people who are sovereign & why Chucky is here by consent of the Scots.
English monarchs were forever, passing from one fckwit to another, as we still see today. Completely useless to demand such authority from eejits who do not benefit from them whatsoever.
Oh, bad actor “Pat Blake” has popped up again to try and reinforce the “Ellis/Main” troll.
Goodness, they seem to be panicking…they are tasked to keep repeating falsehoods to attempt to ensure that the franchise MUST NOT BE DISCUSSED OR ALTERED. They can see the danger to their beloved ‘union’ if new-arrival non-Scots are barred from deciding on Scotland’s future, and scuppering the Yoon control of our country and it’s resources.
“…you must be new here…”
LOL, they’e sitting in the same fcuking office!
@ Geri I see Pat is doing what we all see time immemorial, the same thing ALL engerlish exceptionalists do they CONFLATE the UK with engerland
“Except it does and the evidence it does is because you are still in the UK. The SNP weren’t prepared to risk a) breaking the law, b) seriously annoying Scotland’s main trading partner (the UK) and c) upseting it’s second greatest trading partner and future union (the EU).”
FYI Pat engerland is NOT the UK it is ONLY 1 country no matter how many times you want it to be different THAT is the TRUTH you no longer have an empire, why do English people insist on flying the butchers apron are they ashamed of their own flag or do they even know they have one
@ Hatuey says: 8 February, 2024 at 1:50 pm
I can frequently post here without having to make comments about the personalities and character flaws (real or imaginary) of the people I’m posting to.
I look forwards to the day I can say the same about you.
Haha, I crack me up – like I care.
desire to socialise
WTAF?
I’m here to inject the occasional breath of sanity into the ravings of some very pretzeled people. Scotland is a lot worse for the past ten years and a simplistic “black & white” explanation might start with the more or less complete divorce from reality we see BTL here daily.
Scotland won’t be in a good place if another ten years go by without a major change of direction. I think I can help with that and I’m going to continue trying.
“Scotland is a lot worse for the past ten years and a simplistic “black & white” explanation might start with the more or less complete divorce from reality we see BTL here daily.”
Doesn’t make sense. See me after class…
Genocide John
Who are you voting for that YOU think will make Scotland better?
Lol James..
Twathater – true.
& to answer Pat..
a) A sovereign nation ending a treaty, by a democratic vote or otherwise, isn’t against the law. What law do you speak of? You’ve just ended one, ya eejit. It was called Brexshit. You didn’t need permission to end it did you? You just did it because as David Davies stated, there isn’t a treaty in the entire world where a sovereign nation needs the permission of others to leave it.
b) Scotland will still trade unless little England has a strop. I hope they do. It’ll be fun turning the lights & gas out.
c) the EU would more than welcome an independent Scotland. Are you now a negotiating expert for the EU? WTF were you during Brexshit? Why would they be upset we ditched little England?
d) Scotland isn’t a possession of Englands. But do keep spouting rubbish like yours. It helps Independence by being told we’re subordinate to the pish poor neighbours next door who only survive by leeching off others.
Blah, blah, blah but the reality is you are still in the UK and it’s not even obvious that the SNP (let alone Alba) will get a mandate for anything at the next elections. Would that be proof that independence is over forever? Of course not. Parties are elected for things other than a single policy. But if that applies to Labour, it applies to a Scottish independence party too.
While enthusiastic, Wings Over Scotland doesn’t have any mandate over Scottish sovereignty. You can’t demand that Scotland was never in the union or that you are respecting Scottish sovereignty by ignoring the decision in 2014. I can understand the childish desire to set all the rules of the game to suit yourselves but who is bothering to listen to you?