Wings Over Scotland

Here are my view on racism.

I believe everyone on this planet is racist and that is perfectly normal.

Sure we have been brainwashed into believing that it is a very bad thing so now we all go around pretending we are not racist.

It’s unnatural.

Sure Humza is racist just like me. He wants to be the same as everyone else. I believe he did write that he always felt different. His parent decided to move to an all white Christian country which guaranteed being a Muslim & brown skinned he is going to be different.

We can pretend that he’s not different just like we are expected to pretend that transwomen are women.

I think everyone should cut out the ‘conversion therapy’ and stop trying to make people into something they are not.

I believe we are expected to pretend because the government fucked up for some reason. Who knows.

Now we have a multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-religion society with everyone living in different communities all wanting to be surrounded by people of the same race & culture. All racists.

It’s possible the white race voted for Brexit because they are racist and Asians voted for Brexit because they are racist.

No worries Hautey I will carry on pretending. I will pretend that I am not racist and I will pretend transwomen are women.

The conversion therapy hasn’t worked but I can pretend. I have done a lot of pretending in my life.
It’s necessary to pretend for a quiet life.

Just to lighten things up a little here’s a YouTube video about pretending: 🙂

link to youtube.com

She’s a YES.

@Alf Baird 11.52am

I’m not really interested in your paraphrasing of Memmi or Fanon or what others have written about non analogous situations though Alf.

I agree that independence is a matter for Scots, it’s a matter of who you include in the Scots “demos” surely? You’re going to have issues domestically and internationally if your try to restrict rights to the “ethnos”, which logically would have to include putative citizens in the diaspora, wouldn’t it?

If you exclude “some” Scots residents on the basis that they don’t qualify as Scottish enough (or presumably wouldn’t qualify as citizens in an already independent state), you can’t exclude those abroad who do qualify just because they happen to be working and living abroad. The Catalans made provision for those living abroad to vote when they compiled their new voter register for the last referendum.

Pray tell what “issues” Scots will have internationally?

Do Scots interfere in overseas elections?

You invent obstacles where there are none to try force your opinion.

The people of Scotland will decide her own country’s franchise. You concern yourself with yours.

You can start by gathering the Green ink brigade together & sending a deluge of angry letters on the English government over its grossly unfair franchise & how they have to change it for foreigners by order of Andy & chums.. world authority on elections.

I did try to track down the debate in the Commons about the 2014 Indy Ref franchise. I got close.

Found this
link to parliament.scot

I believe this bill was discussed on the Commons. aorund 13th or 15th March. Not sure

I thought this was interesting

link to publications.parliament.uk

Anas Sarwar
I have some concerns. To date, the SNP rhetoric on transparency and fairness has not matched up to the reality of its behaviour. On the very subject of today’s debate, let us not forget that just one year ago the SNP said that it did not need a section 30 order for the referendum to be competent. Alex Salmond said to the Scottish Parliament:

I don’t think this was the debate about the franchise but I’m not sure.
There were quite a few (bloody loads) debates about Scottish Independence around that time.

The debate about the franchise should be on Parliament TV it’s just not that easy to find. Particularly difficult for me being that I know nothing about politics. I don’t know for example what would happen with the
link to parliament.scot

Did you see the video where Alex Salmond is asked about mentoring Sturgeon and he replies ‘she didn’t listen’?

I wonder if she didn’t listen when Alex Salmond said

‘Scotland did not need a section 30 order for the referendum to be competent’

FAO MAC

Have you got an answer for me

link to wingsoverscotland.com

Acknowledging a race of people in of itself is not racist..it is pride in your people or nation, and a sense of belonging and having roots. In a community that shares like minded values and morals.

What is racist is when another body of people from a different race, enter your nations space and area, deride and mock that race of people, colonise and overtake your laws and morals, to impede that nation or race, , your resources and assets , fight and lie to you, to eliminate your opinions, your beliefs, to delete your history, and taking away your right to speak freely on those wrongs.

Thats racism.
That is Colonialism.

@ Marie M at 11:51 am

I will let Alf respond to your question, but there are plenty other descriptions of political theory that fit the bill too.
Have a read of this and see how well it describes the NuSNP.

link to en.wikipedia.org

Post got lost or maybe it didn’t. I’ll post it again with extras.

I like the idea of them coming here and us going there

For your holidays?

I like the idea of people from Europe coming here to stay and me going there.

No problem with racism ‘cos we are all the same race. We are all Europeans hence similar culture .

I know there are people who don’t agree with that they are called Brexiteers.

Brexiteers are definitely racists and on top of that they are anti-foreigners.

Xenophobic! Yeah! that’s the word.

So maybe before trying to convert the racists we might want to start on the Xenophobes.

James Che

We can now add elections to that list too..lol

Andy Ellis @ 12:10 pm

“to include putative citizens in the diaspora”

Funny you should mention that, because it is the global norm, and is also what the UK Government are now doing for Brits overseas:

“New legislation comes into force which means that from 16 January, British citizens can now register to vote in UK Parliamentary elections, no matter how long ago they left. This right to vote includes UK Parliament general elections, by-elections and recall petitions. Previously, only British citizens who had been registered in the UK within the past 15 years were eligible to vote. This is a key Government policy which changes the franchise for British citizens overseas and is an important part of upholding democracy.”

link to electoralcommission.org.uk

However, this does not appear to alter the highly irregular local government (residence-based) franchise dumped on Scotland for oor ain national elections or ‘generational’ constitutional referendums subject to postal vote manipulation.

There is clearly a lack of consistency, and with the Belfast Agreement defining ‘the people of Northern Ireland’ as ‘the people born there’, the option to hold a referendum on re-unification every 7 years, plus UK Gov allowing Northern Ireland to remain within the EU trading area, which violates the Treaty of Union.

Scots are being discriminated against and treated very differently in all respects, not that oor daeless national party elites or intellectuals seem to have noticed.

The ECHR was embeded in the devolution settlement,

The “right to self determination” and liberty” of freedom which parallels the Claim of right in Scotland as part of a treaty is being denied by Westminster to the only other race and nation that is supposed to be in a treaty of united union with them to create the Great in Great -Britain.

However (Westminster parliament has Colonised the fallacious treaty of Union) itself in racism to the detriment of their one and only union partner that creates the Great in great- britain,

Westminster parliament forgets in its bias racist Colonialism that they decided legally ( NOT ) to go ahead and invite the Scots nation of people into the treaty of union by their own admission in 2022, 2023, 2024,

As written for the whole world read whenever anyone visits or reads the UK parliament site.

@Alf, thank you for your reply re land and water ownership. Water is going to become a serious issue in the near future.

With regard to Yusafs ant white speech, Sarwar made the same speech in the same parliament and we have been brainwashed into accepting the unacceptable. Some on here call John Main Genocide John and it completely flew over your heads that Hatuey called for your actual genocide via mass uncontrolled immigration into Scotland, he/she stated a desire for the population of Scotland to rise by a multiplication of ten via immigration. For those of you who are not in the cities and have a level of self sufficiency off of the land, you will be the new Kulaks, you are already being targeted for decolonisation via colonisation. Anyone not bowing down for the chop is a “racist prick”.

@Andy Ellis, anti white racists are not fired, they are promoted as a reward, see Yusaf, Sunak and the woman at Cambridge who was promoted to full Professorship after stating that white lives matter too much. This is justified by announcing that it is impossible to be racist towards a white person.

I have spent decades amongst the Left, I know how this system works, declare that you stand against all forms of oppression whilst having it rendered into law that it is impossible to oppress a white person because they hold all of the levers of power even if they are not in possession of a pot to piss in. Do not be afraid of people like Hatuey when they threaten to wipe you off of the face of the Earth or Andy Ellis when he threatens to have you fired, stand up to them.

So is Anton number 1,000 or was it Ruby??

Do the Cataloians as a separate kingdom have a treaty of union with Spain?
As Scotlands old parliament used to with Englands old parliament, before Scotlands parliament was then extinguished under dissolution in In 1707.

What date did both parties, Catalan and Spain voluntary agree this treaty?

Andy Ellis
Ignored
says:
7 February, 2024 at 1:33 pm

@Geri

Sarwar was born in Glasgow. Is there some other reason you think he’s an incomer?

He’s from a different culture. Hence incomer to Scottish culture.

I’m wondering how Sarwar become an MP. Any money exchanged?

Different cultures have different views on these matters. Fair or not fair?

I hope this isn’t interpreted as bitchin’ but I find you keep saying the same thing over and over and over again Andy.

Is that fair criticism or not? Do you accept that Andy?

Pat Blake you are nitpicking

Mornin Dorothy

Is there a £1000 prize on offer? If not Anton can have it.

Congrats Anton. You are a winner!

@Ruby

Are you are missing winner?

See, The Fall predicted this with their twenty second album.

I’m off before someone comes along and says

I’ve got a thousand posts of shit to choose from

Here’s my response to these anticipated posts

I’ve got electric light.
And I’ve got second sight.
And amazing powers of observation.
And that is how I know
When I try to get through
On the telephone to you
There’ll be nobody home.

Andy Ellis @ 2:04 pm

“It’s not legitimate however to falsely claim that the franchise used in Scotland is somehow unusual”

Are you seriously trying to say that the Scottish residence-based referendum franchise is the same as that used in:

– New Caledonia independence referendums (clue: ‘secondary criteria’ restricted non-indigenous votes)
– UK Brexit referendum (clue: UK citizens only)
– Irish referendums in 2015 (clue: Irish citizens only)
– Italian constitutional ref 2016 (clue: Italian citizens only)
– Expected Northern Ireland referendum (clue: only those ‘born in NI’ are defined as ‘the people of NI’ who are expected to make that decision)

It therefore remains highly irregular for a ‘country’ to use a local government (resident-based) franchise in a national referendum deciding a national constitutional matter. But we all know how hopeless and complicit the SNP are so this isnae really a surprise.

Sorry for the late comment, but I have been busy.

NG’s story on burner phones is baloney. During the 1st two lockdowns I worked for an MP. Before lockdown I worked in both the WM & constituency office. During from home. I cannot think the telephony arrangement at Holyrood were any different to those at HR. At lockdown:
(1) All calls to the WM office were patched through to individual’s work computers. I could receive & call out through my computer at home.
(2) We advised constituents etc to call us on the WM office number. But a couple of times a day I checked messages remotely on the constituency answerphone – very few.So few we decided to ge rid of the phones which were costing the tax payers money in their rental charges.

I can see NO reason for an MP/MSP or their staff to use burner phones to carry on their work.

**Geri

Sarwar was born in Glasgow. Is there some other reason you think he’s an incomer?**

And?

He is a member of a foreign countries political party. What is he doing in our parliament interfering? He doesn’t serve the people of Scotland. He serves the people of another Sovereign nation.

He is also a Pakistani Muslim. He knows hee-haw about Scotlands constitution, our treaty & our rights under that treaty.

His boss resides in London. It’s time Scotland reconvened it’s own parliament with only SCOTTISH REGISTERED political parties standing in our elections & collecting a salary on our dime. Until such times as that happens he can STFU about Scotlands constitutional arrangements with another country & fuck off to an English constituency.

**therefore remains highly irregular for a ‘country’ to use a local government (resident-based) franchise in a national referendum deciding a national constitutional matter. **

Exactly.

Using a domestic franchise no better than a county council election. A complete farce & isn’t this why they could break Purdah last time? Who from the international community could complain about a diddly wee domestic election being rigged.

The English government is moving to full F*scism & a perpetual Tory D*ctatorship by changing their franchise to the English living outside of the UK. The obvious bait there will be people’s pensions to keep them voting in their rigged elections but as usual, thats perfectly ok & not in the least bit alarming its just scotland that isnt allowed to run it’s own franchise on its own constitution.

I seriously doubt that roaster is in Alba. If he is it’s obviously to disrupt.

“The UK, like all democratic countries, sets out rules on who has the right to
register to vote. Most countries restrict voting in national elections to citizens
of their own country. Some countries allow citizens of other countries to vote
in local elections as long as they are resident.”

House of Commons Library.

Most countries. Citizens of their own country.

Ruby

Regards Salmond..

‘Scotland did not need a section 30 order for the referendum to be competent’

He is absolutely spot on. We don’t need a section 30. WM only holds power of Holyrood, the Scotland Act..

NOT what happens outside of it.

A majority of Scots voting to hold a referendum is not a gift that is Westminsters to grant. Scotland is a sovereign nation & in a voluntary union. When Scots gave the SNP a clear mandate that serves as an instruction – not as Sturgeon & Co wish with the *I’ll think about it in my own good time* with her gold standard bullshit that handed Scots Sovereignty over to another nation to say no…

@sam

When Scotland is an independent country it will decide what the citizenship criteria are and use them for elections or any constitutional votes like other independent countries. From memory the plan in the indy white paper suggested the same criteria as Ireland would be used, so Scots born people abroad or those with Scottish parents or grandparents would be able to apply for Scottish citizenship, as would “New Scots” already living in Scotland.

Self determination referendums aren’t general elections, nor are the votes on changing the constitution of an independent state. The overwhelming majority of self determination votes since WW2 have used residence based criteria, not birth place, ethnicity or what the putative citizenship of residents would be.

A few have imposed residence criteria usually quite short, and 1 I’ve seen imposed a requirement for a minimum 55% vote in favour.

Andy Ellis @ 3:42 pm

“Only two examples from your list relate to self determination”

Scots need not be limited solely by a focus on self-determination.

Scots are seeking to end a treaty-based international alliance, hence this is primarily a national (i.e. Scottish) constitutional matter.

Scottish constitutional law, protected by the (oft violated) treaty, should have a more prominent role, and might be expected to become more active in the matter.

The Scots are a sovereign people, albeit treated as a colony. We have a right to withdraw from or enter into treaties, tho are currently prevented from doing so by our oppressor.

‘Colonialism is force’. We should try to understand this.

Back in 1707 the Scottish Parliament joined with the English Parliament. As evidenced by Scottish MPs in the UK Parliament today. They did not get an equal partnership because they didn’t get equal numbers of MPs. Arguments about the fairness of that should have been settled at the time. Any subsequent ‘constitution’ decided by Scottish MPs is worthless until you are an independent nation or Catalan could do the same. Whether you like it or not the union was endorsed in 2014 with a truly democratic vote. Conditions accepted by the Scottish Parliament and Scottish MPs at the time.

There is no Dick Barton way to get out of the UK – one bound and Scotland was free.

They did get an equal partnership as both are Sovereign Nations. English MPs was absolutely nothing to do with it. They’re constituency MPs.

Catalan has absolutely zero similarities with Scotland. Yoons need to stop using it as a comparison. It’s as stupid as comparing apples with a turnip. Spain has written constitution locking Catalonia in. The UK does not have one locking in Scotland because they can’t. Now or ever.

Because yoons won’t change the record.
Scots Sovereignty doesn’t seem to register on the first outing.

Even tho constitutional experts are agreed, along with international lawyers & even our own court systems..

Yoons on a chat forum disagree that Scotland is a sovereign nation despite what the treaty says & Chucky taking oaths & claim of right ..yoons btl know best.

Geri 7 February, 2024 at 4:39 pm

“They did get an equal partnership as both are Sovereign Nations.”

A meaningless statement. The UK Parliament has sovereignty over both countries. It has devolved some things to the Scottish Parliament but not the right to unilaterally leave or anything else that affects both nations (eg gender self recognition). Nowhere did Scotland get powers from the original sovereign (Queen Anne) to do its own thing. The public are not sovereign at all, in either country. In many way neither country is truly sovereign because we’ve signed up to all sorts of international agreements that take away Parliaments right to decide. It was even more so while we were in the EU.

*testing*

twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/status/1689422005433454592?

Well that didn’t work but if you pop it in your browser you can see the Supreme court paragraph relating to Scots electing to leave through the ballot box.
Scotland isn’t locked in.
Scotland only has to vote for it. That’s democracy.

& What the useless SNP 45 must go because they know they could call this now but choose not to..

I don’t know which link you’re referring to Geri but –

“the decision of the Supreme Court providing legal certainty that the Scottish Government has no power to hold an independence referendum without the consent of the UK Government through the mechanism of Section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998;”

link to gov.scot

@Alf 4.10 pm

More wibble. Nary an answer hoves in to sight.

Why, it’s almost as if Alf is just talking out of his hat isn’t it alert readers?

Pat Blake.

If you re- read my comment, it was a question with a question mark asking about Catalan and Spain.

x.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/status/1689422005433454592?s=20

England doesn’t have it’s own parliament as it just hijacks the UK parliament as its own.
Westminster uses first past the post with a restricted franchise. English local authority elections also use first past the post.

Scotland using a different voting systems and franchise for Holyrood parliament and our local authority elections does skew results, and it does have constitutional ramifications.
If the Scottish Parliament used fptp then there would have been less unionist representation, and possibly “nationalist” parties would have obtained a super-majority with the extra implications into play for the union and also that much mentioned international recognition.
Yoons can rant away all they like to diminish Scotland, but you never see them asking for Scotland to be equal in the union and implement the same fptp voting system their beloved London Rule uses.

Musings…
Is the reason so many immigrants in Scotland smoke a lot, not because they are nicotine addicts, but actually just so they can get a heat off the burning ciggie because it is so fucking cold here and energy prices to generate any semblance of warmth are so high.
I’ll need to check the price of and the calorific value of heat contained in a pack of smokes and compare it to how much heat can be bought from other more conventional fuel / energy sources.

Have mentioned this before but Scotland welcoming reams of chain smoking immigrants will impact on our all ready struggling health services that they haven’t paid much if any tax into.
Of course the positive of this type of immigration is that all those burning cigges will raise the ambient air temperature so at least all of us won’t require to turn the heating up quite as much as we would without all those tobacco fires burning.

NB. This post may or may not be acceptable to David Holden and all the lurkers, but as they can’t be arsed to get off the bench and onto the pitch to share their own input with us, they’ll just have to suck it up.

Okay, Fruitella, can you explain your point about immigration and environmentalism — you mentioned this last week and I assumed you were being sarcastic or something. Are you saying that because immigration involves travel it is at odds with environmentalism? I still think it’s funny. Is that supposed to be a serious point? Did I misunderstand?

You seem to think I’m a Marxist. I’m not. The stuff Marx said that was good was the stuff he stole (from people like Aristotle and Hegel). The rest was pretty boring and wrong, although swapping the word “profit” for the phrase “surplus value” was quite creative.

I think a free market system is probably the least worst of all the other options available, and maybe we should try it. What we call the “free market” today is anything but free; it’s riddled with cheating, corruption, and bullying Neanderthals that think they can bomb their way to success.

As for immigration, I’m going to avoid the subject where possible. I think people should be allowed to move freely, as I have said. They will anyway, you can’t stop them. We probably aren’t far away from some sort of catastrophe that results in billions rather than millions heading for western shores.

Do I think people who are against immigration are racists? Probably. I’d settle for xenophobic. Most are, in my experience.

We can demand a referendum.
It’s called winning a mandate.
Cameron won one for Brexshiteers.
Regardless of what the other partner of the treaty thought Scots never told him any shite about *Now is not the time*.

& This is our problem of voting uneducated fuckwits into parliament because the more they let things slide the more the revisionist eejits will claim as their authority.

Scotland will hold a referendum or a plebasite when we choose to under new management.

Ruby @ 18.28

In view of the fact that your query has been posted I guess it’s the latter option.

Pat Blake.

Response to second part of you’re comment.

The “personal” ( not official) union between the Crowns of Scotland and England ended when Queen Anne ratified the treaty of Union,
And after wards proclaimed the Scottish parliament was under dissolution, (dissolved.)
This just leaves the parliament of England in the facticious treaty of union between two possible parliaments

The get out Clause for Scots is the UK parliament stating that they deliberated and debated wether to ask the Scots to join the treaty of union.

But they all agreed that it was better not to Ask the Scots because, in all likelyhood the Scots would vote NO.

This was agreed between commissioners, politicians and Monarchy. That the Scots would not be Asked.The ratification of the political treaty of union between the two parliaments, did not include the Scots.
And also eliminated the Scottish parliament in Westminster parliament.
A parliament under dissolution has no members.

The agreement in the treaty of union regards Monarchy over Scots also failed when the commissioners, the Monarchy and politicians made the decision not to include the Scots in the treaty of union.

The UK parliament site on their present up to date site still state they did not ask the Scots to join the treaty of union.

If Scots are not in it and have no obligation to the treaty of union have no shared Monarchy………..why do they need a vote or a franchise to leave?

Scotland’s future will not be decided by debate.
It’s future is already set.
It’s called fate.

Well that’s it then, the Zionist PM has made it crystal clear that the slaughter will continue, lets see what the ICJ makes of this when the months wait is up.

“BENJAMIN Netanyahu has rejected Hamas’s conditions for a ceasefire and vowed to press ahead with Israel’s military offensive in Gaza until “absolute victory”.

Netanyahu made the comments on Wednesday shortly after meeting US secretary of state Antony Blinken, who has been travelling around the region in the hope of securing a ceasefire agreement.

“We are on the way to an absolute victory,” Netanyahu said, adding that the operation would last months, not years.”

“There is no other solution,” he added.

Sven
Ignored
says:
7 February, 2024 at 6:33 pm

Ruby @ 18.28

In view of the fact that your query has been posted I guess it’s the latter option.

Did that make you sad Sven? Sorry!

When you get banned or sentenced to PMT you don’t get a phone call, right to an appeal or even one last post to say Good-bye to your friends.

You are just disappeared! Woosh and you’re gone!

Well that is not exactly true but the truth is boring. Who likes boring?

Maybe it just slipped her mind, a quick I’m sorry and I’m sure everything will be fine, well that’s what usually happens in politics.

“MICHELLE Mone reportedly denied she stood to gain financially from a PPE company – five months before £29 million of its profits were transferred into a trust for her benefit.

Leaked emails between Mone and the Cabinet Office revealed that a civil servant asked her to make a declaration that she had no conflict of interest in relation to the company, PPE Medpro, which she had recommended to ministers in May 2020, The Guardian reports.

Mone stated that she had “no conflicts whatsoever” and that she was not “entitled to any financial remuneration or financial benefit whatsoever”.

The former Tory peer eventually admitted to being involved with PPE Medpro, despite her past assurances she had nothing to do with the firm.

She is currently on a leave of absence from the House of Lords.”

“A Cabinet Office civil servant wrote to Mone, asking her for a “one-line statement to cover the lines we discussed so that we can document the declaration of no conflict”.

“She replied: “In relation to PPE Medpro Limited, I can confirm that I have no conflicts whatsoever in helping the company to achieve orders through the NHS. I am neither a shareholder of the company nor am I entitled to any financial remuneration or financial benefit whatsoever. You can put this on the record.

“My role is to help the NHS deliver on its PPE targets and to ultimately save lives of patients, medical workers and carers.””

Ultimately to save lives Mone said, aw that’s sweet of her, she done it all out of the kindness of her heart.

link to archive.is

The Supreme Court of our Imperial Masters tell us a lot of stuff but then so do the UK Government ‘Better Together & their lawyers Crawford & Boyle.

ie Scotland does not exist.

But

I’ve got electric light.
And I’ve got second sight.
And amazing powers of observation.
And that is how I know

They are taking the piss.

Madre Mia they’ve even got a law saying a man can become a woman.

Kemi & Rishi think we are daft.

Maybe we are daft or as stoned as a badger, badger.

Mushroom, Mushroom.

Argh! Snake, a snake!

Hatue

“Okay, Fruitella, can you explain your point about immigration and environmentalism — you mentioned this last week and I assumed you were being sarcastic or something. Are you saying that because immigration involves travel it is at odds with environmentalism? I still think it’s funny. Is that supposed to be a serious point? Did I misunderstand?”

Now, is that you being sarcastic? Unless the idea of carrying capacity whooshed over your head, that is. Sustainability and self-sufficiency are at the core of ecological thinking and significant shifts in people and resources are a threat to such systems. Ethnicity is irrelevant.

The EU’s Four Freedoms are precisely what destroys self-sufficiency and sustainability. The immigrants you predict are being generated by policies for “economic growth” for us, ecological catastrophe for the powerless in target countries.

@Sven 7:25

Life’s a bitch and then you die.

And often, getting what you wish for can be worse than not getting what you wish for.

This is very depressing, what’s wrong with these people?

“A new poll by the Israel Democracy Institute shows that about half of Israelis would oppose a deal to end the war in the Gaza if it includes Palestinian statehood and peace agreements with other Arab countries, and that only 39 percent think the Israel is ensuring the security of its citizens.”

link to haaretz.com

James Che 7 February, 2024 at 7:13 pm

When were the populations asked for their opinion in 1707? Was Scotland very different from England? Almost nobody had a vote back then. Major disputes were settled by war. Not long after there was the Jacobite uprising which was ‘settled’. Not legitimate by today’s standards but it was at the time. Did the English public want the Hanoverian Georges when Anne died? They weren’t asked. There comes a point where you have to accept that the past happened and trying to rewrite it is a folly.

I admire your energy for your points but I feel it would be far better directed at a vision for the future. I genuinely think that Scotland could be free of England but not without innovative ideas for how you’d change. With a great plan, you’d get those votes when the next referendum is offered.

@ Republicofscotland says: 7 February, 2024 at 8:02 pm

about half of Israelis would oppose a deal to end the war in the Gaza if it includes Palestinian statehood and peace agreements with other Arab countries

Any figures for the proportion of Palestinians that oppose Israeli statehood? I’m betting it’s higher than half. A lot higher.

Same seems to go for the Female Genital Mutilators (Iran) too.

In fact, it is opposition to peaceful co-existence between Israel and other ME countries such as Saudi Arabia that caused the FGMs (Iran) to kick off the Gazan War in the first place.

As you say: This is very depressing, what’s wrong with these people?

John Main @ 19.57

I guess that in my own individualistic, self opinionated way I prefer not to be controlled by being dictated to in respect of to whom I am to post or not or else be sanctioned.
In that respect mayhap I actually resemble Ruby, in being a “Waldganger”, although there I devoutly hope the resemblance ends.

These farmer protests in Europe are independence movements, nationalist movements.

The people of Britain (and NONE more so in Scotland) are kowtowed, domesticated, tamed, pussified.

Scotland is the nexus of national cowardice. A model of structural submission.

Go read Weegingerdug.

I think my mistake was to expect more from you, fruit.

“significant shifts in people and resources are a threat to such systems.”

I don’t know where to start with that.

Have you any idea how ridiculous it would be to tell someone who just lost their family, their village, and their sanity in a war zone that leaving would be a “threat” to sustainability and self sufficiency “systems”? Are you literally nuts?

Unlike the above, this isn’t completely devoid of reason;

“The EU’s Four Freedoms are precisely what destroys self-sufficiency and sustainability. The immigrants you predict are being generated by policies for “economic growth” for us, ecological catastrophe for the powerless in target countries.”

The four freedoms and generally accepted dynamics of laissez faire models implies that the most efficient producers will survive, through specialisation, etc. That’s the theory. Reality is full of all sorts of distortions and historical factors that get in the way. The CAP, for example, was intended to protect French farmers, although they pretend otherwise, and that has done a lot of damage to livelihoods in the second and third world. But it worked for French farmers.

There are a million other issues that distort the functioning of the EU marketplace, but that isn’t an argument for abandoning it and if it is, you might tell us what you would replace it with because there’s a good chance it would be worse for everybody, including second and third world farmers.

That all said, it generally works and has benefitted most EU citizens who enjoy just about cheaper everything as a result, having removed barriers to trade, all whilst protecting workers’s rights and promoting standards that even post-Brexit Britain wants to maintain.

The inflation the UK is experiencing right now is directly exacerbated by Brexit, particularly in terms of reintroducing barriers to free movement and trade, and the extent to which that is true is a measure of the extent to which the four freedoms previously promoted efficiencies and savings for the people of the UK.

The case for Scotland in the EU is indisputable; we get cheaper everything, we get to sell all the things we have a natural advantage in, energy, whisky, tourism, etc., and we get access to labour which we are short of now and likely to be even more short of when we develop our industries and build more houses. There’s really no down side, except for those who have issues with foreigners coming here to help.

Nothing is perfect but some things are less perfect than others.

As for the four freedoms,

Pat Blake
Ignored
says:
7 February, 2024 at 8:24 pm

Ruby 7 February, 2024 at 7:07 pm

Sorry, but could you post that again but with Cliffs Notes? I understand the words but not the sentences.

Sorry these post are one offs. 🙂

Pat Blake

**Brexiteers had to wait 40+ years for another vote on Europe. During which time European control grew well beyond the initial mandate from joining. Cameron didn’t have to offer a referendum. Parliament didn’t have to agree to hold one. At no point did the public have sovereignty. Merely influence. Scotland had the same opportunity but chose not to depart. You still have influence but not sovereignty. So eventually you will be offered another referendum but from what I see, you won’t be ready for one.**

Away & behave LOL! The public wasn’t even aware what Brexit even was before it was announced they were having one. (& some still don’t) Brexshit was for the Tory party infighting – no one else.

Waiting 40 years is totally irrelevant. That was also another invention by the Tories. No one made them wait that long & that suddenly doesn’t transfer to Scottish independence.

A mandate is a clear instruction from the voters to carry out that mandate – not a request. That would render all elections completely pointless & Westminster devoid of democracy.

Westminster has no control over Scotland leaving. Absolutely none and our eejits need to stop playing along with their shit. If they wanted to leave Scotland they would just do it without all the bollocks they think they can impose on another Sovereign nation.

@ Republicofscotland says: 7 February, 2024 at 8:46 pm

No doubt John Main will have a “Valid” excuse for this one as well

American journalist Tucker Carlson has been placed on the Eastern European nations Myrotvorets ‘Kill List’

OFFS RoS, more hysterical spamming from you.

Carlson has been on the list since June 2023 cos he is critical of western support for 404.

And it ain’t a fecking “Kill List”, other than in the overheated environment of professional or partisan click-bait journalism.

The most recent figure I can find, from 2019, has 187,000 names on the list. I guess there will be a heck of a lot more now.

Probably including yours, eh RoS? But dinna fash, you won’t be needing one of these mirror-on-a-stick thingies to check under your car for bombs.

The “Kill List” trope is purely for reeling in the gullible, sparking social media frenzies, and selling ads.

Hi Dan,

Didn’t know about the removal of gas. I know a couple of folk that run gas in their cars; they’ll be unhappy about that.

I was quite amused by the 30-year exemption, though, as only one of the vehicles that I currently own is inside that; the oldest is 87 years old.

@ Hatuey says: 7 February, 2024 at 8:52 pm

The inflation the UK is experiencing right now is directly exacerbated by Brexit

That is correct, but it’s also just part of the story.

The inflation the UK is experiencing right now is directly exacerbated by and primarily caused by (in decreasing order of effect):

1. The War.
2. The Chinese Flu.
3. Brexit.

There’s really no down side, except for those who have issues with foreigners coming here to help

That’s just weasel words.

There’s plenty of countries in the world that have great numbers of foreigners coming to help. The key to that being a popular and sustainable policy for them is that after the foreigners have finished helping, they bugger off back to where they came from.

It’s not foreigners going to help that’s the problem, Hats, it’s foreigners going to stay.

The case for Scotland in the EU is indisputable

The case for Scotland in the EU is disputable, simply because nobody has a scooby about the terms and conditions under which Scotland would be allowed in.

You know that as well as I do, Hats.

It’s of great advantage to those pushing the EU agenda to kind of leave it as read that we will get the same deal as the UK did – a country with over ten times our population and economic clout.

For obvious reasons, that just won’t happen.

And then, we would need to have a negotiating team that actually showed some level of competence at negotiating. When you look at the recent record of ScotGov we can see how risible an idea that is.

Ruby

**We have a majority SNP Government in the Scottish Parliament, but that is not a democratic place in the conventional sense; it is a dictatorship of one man sitting in Bute house, who will do not what is in Scotland’s interests, but what is in his own or his party’s interests. We need to be very clear about that as we go forward.**

Aye, Sarwar was still smarting that Salmond won a majority.
Something his party never achieved & never will despite their best efforts to maintain perpetual Labour rule in Scotland.

Salmond had more of a mandate than some arse wipe from a London political party who has none. Salmond delivered what he said he would with only one mandate.
What has Sarwar achieved for Scotland? Zip but told to shut it & they wished they’d never agreed Devo. (Like that was their gift to give)

I hope one day that parliament changes to only Scottish registered MSPs. It’s a nonsense that a sovereign nation has agents from a foreign hostile nation on its soil. The same with the Tory (70 yrs + in exile & rejected) also sits as secretary of state for Scotland.

Genocide John sounding a wee bit wound up tonight.
His dream of a Fourth Re1ch in difficulties?

Myrotvorets (with a Langley address at the head of its page) did indeed dox people they disliked
and likes to post pictures of their corpses.

Candidate Nikki Haley came in second in the Nevada Republican Primary.
She lost to ‘none of the above’ by a factor of 2:1
Lol
Spoiled ballots might be the way to go.

Dan

My best mate had a VW Beetle when she passed her test.

I still remember the *Toot, toot & a wave* to other Beetle drivers.

Gawd, if my Dad was on here he’d tell off all his vintage motors. He was into that sort of thing & used to go to all the shows. He’d a Wolseley growing up. His pride & joy. Oot polishing his chrome lol. I still remember, as a teenager, breaking down at traffic lights & he’d to get the old bar out to give it a kick start. Oh the shame & embarrassment at the time…

I’d be surprised if Biden makes it to the election.
He said he was talking with Mitterrand at the G7 in 2021, the other day.

Maybe they won’t have the election.

Asians have their own class system (I wonder where they picked that up) & are just as guilty of bigotry & racism.

He needs to get down off his cross.

Scotland has laws against discrimination, racism & bigotry & he’s overseen a shit load more being introduced.

His constant use of playing that card is becoming tiresome.

He’s privileged. The vote was rigged to shoo him in to high office. He wore his tartan kilt to a foreign kings wee swaree (Navids golden invite). He’s shuffled about Holyrood failing at everything. He’s got off with breaking the law. He’s had multiple shags & he’s bezzie mates with the queen of corrupt.

WTF is he still moaning for?

Fruitella, it sounds like you had your opinion on me prefabricated and no matter what I said in response you were going to roll it out regardless. That’s okay, I’m impervious to criticism, but in this case I think you made a mistake.

For one, I not only think climate change is probably going to cause untold mayhem, I think mankind is so full of hubris that he will walk right into it; I think we should prepare for disaster rather than pretend we might prevent it (I’m with Lovelock on this).

As for your claim that I think we should carry on as usual, we were talking about the EU and I think the EU is further down the road of addressing problems and imbalances caused by the free market than anywhere else in the world. If every country in the world played by the same rules as the EU, the world would probably be a marginally better place.

I’m pretty sure I suggested beefing up international law somewhere up there. The vast majority of us believe in the UN’s ideals, believe in international law, international justice, etc., but the organisations established to uphold these things have no way to enforcing anything. That’s the big problem right now and it’s no accident — the US and various allies have done everything possible to undermine every dimension of international law and order, because they are criminals and they know that playing by the rules would show them up as total failures.

Do I think environmentalism is inherently racist? No, I think it’s worse; I think it’s anti-human.

In other news, I see McTernan the sage of NuLabour has returned. That’s them done for then….!

link to twitter.com

John Main: “hardly any time since you were banging on that the more immigrants a place gets, the more successful it is.”

The US economy has benefitted massively from the flow of immigrant labour and if you search Google you will see that a million respected sources agree on that.

“ Immigrants Contribute Greatly to U.S. Economy”
link to cbpp.org

Do you ever ready anything that isn’t neo-right American crap or The Daily Mail? There’s a million websites that could give you info on that, very easily found. You make this very easy for me.

Fruitella, I’m embarrassed for you. You’re openly admitting that you want to pigeonhole me from some assumed position of superiority. That’s a common trait with environmentalists — no nuanced understanding of human life, just blanket judgements that take “all humans are evil” as a given.

I love people, the more the better — every one uniquely interesting and amazing… this system that you have nothing good to say about, you know, the one that gave you your computer and your pampered lifestyle, it provides for about 8 billion uniquely wonderful people — in those terms it’s the most successful and effective system ever, some would say too successful.

How many lives would your fantasy economic model provide for, whatever it is? And feel free to explain it, as I have explained mine… we can go through it together.

Hats

So it’s a great success in one post and it’s a great failure in the previous one.

Wouldn’t it actually be a lot simpler and easier to fess up and say “whoops, messed up there”? It’s at least possible to respect somebody who owns up to their mistakes.

this system that you have nothing good to say about

Man, cognitive dissonance big enough to be seen from earth orbit.

Hatuey

Regards the USA benefits from immigration..

I should think so. The whole place was immigrants stealing the natives land lol

I also think Greens are anti human, anti fun, anti freedoms, anti everything, ban everything, burn anything, kill everything (especially reproduction) shag anything wine bar revolutionists. In their ideal world it’ll only be that cult on the planet munching on berries & singing to the bird. Even then there’d be a quota on berries incase the birds got upset.

Look at the state of Holyrood – one sniff of power & they go fcking space cadet burning through millions of ££s & leaving a trail of devastation & mayhem behind them.
Not content with that they think they’ll dabble in law & order now too. Jail everyone. Doesn’t matter if they’re not guilty.
& Their latest craze in the EU. Bug farms. Millions of bugs to make one can of pet food.

The Greens need to find & island somewhere. Fashion a biodegradable raft & sail on out there..

It’s inane comments like your last that make it easy for people to ignore you, John Main. You’re a strange absurdity, on one hand coming here to talk, on the other being so obnoxious that very few people want to talk with you. I actually felt sorry for you earlier in the week when I saw you fishing for attention and getting zero bites.

You should consider the above as constructive advice, as it was intended.

Anyway, why don’t you just talk ‘like normal people do’ if you are interested in a subject and want to share opinions? You probably consider it unmanly or something to show humility and understanding, but it is an essential requirement if you desire to socialise. The odd thing is you make some valid enough points at times; lose the tone and the insults and you could probably pass the Turing test.

Now, then, your point about the American economy and my apparent contradictory position is a good example of a reasonable point unreasonably made. The American economy has major problems which I would be glad to go through with you — most economies do. However, it has benefitted from a more or less constant stream of migrant labour. Is that nuanced enough for you?

Can you imagine, not all things or all people fit neatly into your primal subcategories of “good” or “bad”, many are both, and there isn’t one thing anywhere, not even the smallest atom, that isn’t complicated.

You should learn to embrace complexity, it’s wonderful. Go forth and modulate.

Geri “The public wasn’t even aware what Brexit even was before it was announced they were having one. (& some still don’t) Brexshit was for the Tory party infighting – no one else.”

That’s why you have to pay attention to what parties are offering and or who they choose as leader. There were three election when the public had a chance to stop Brexit.

“Waiting 40 years is totally irrelevant.”

No it’s not. It was a reasonable time frame to give the union time to develop for good or ill. Joining or leaving a union is a big step and shouldn’t be taken every few years. The EU wouldn’t want Scotland if it wants to play the hokey cokey with membership.

“A mandate is a clear instruction from the voters to carry out that mandate”

Parties never deliver all that they promise. Ever. They often don’t have the power to deliver what they do promise. They also don’t limit their promises to just one. So when you vote, you hope to get some of what you want and less of what you didn’t want from the parties you didn’t vote for. Often you will be disappointed, no matter who gets in. That is the nature of a democracy. People voted for the SNP and got the SNP. The SNP promised independence but they didn’t have the legal powers to achieve that.

“Westminster has no control over Scotland leaving.”

Except it does and the evidence it does is because you are still in the UK. The SNP weren’t prepared to risk a) breaking the law, b) seriously annoying Scotland’s main trading partner (the UK) and c) upseting it’s second greatest trading partner and future union (the EU).

**No it’s not. It was a reasonable time frame to give the union time to develop for good or ill**

Fine. We’ve had 317 years to give the union time to develop. It hasn’t.

What you need to understand is that Scotland is a sovereign country. It doesn’t need permission, timeframes or % dictated to us by another Sovereign country.

The Union is a trading treaty. A trading treaty that restricts another country to a domestic market while asset stripping resources to prop up a failing neighbour next door.

Once you understand that the penny may finally drop.

Once you had your *advisory* referendum – did you seek talks with your Sovereign partner in the Union about compromise? No. You didn’t . You run off to a province & gave one to them instead.

Did the EU say No -You can’t exercise democracy right now. It’s not a good time for us. Try again in 40 years. Oh & make it 99% over at least another 40 years polling & don’t forget yer article 55 – we at the EU will hold a vote amongst 27 member countries & see if we find it to our liking first.

You had three elections to confirm Brexshit. Good for you, we had SIX to confirm Independence. A clear instruction to exit.

Scotland didn’t vote to remain in the Union. New incomers did who shouldn’t have been given a vote. Scotlands constitutional arrangements & int treaty was fck all to do with them unless Scotland was their home 15 yrs plus.

Yoons are democracy deniers & that never ends well.

But I’ll tell you what, seeing as you are so agreeable to giving things a good go first, let Independence try it.

If it’s no good – you would always take us back wouldn’t you? You loving us so much.

As for the ancient bollocks. It’s still very much alive. A super new state wasn’t created. Scotland & her territory remains intact. No one extinguished her as a Sovereign Nation. The treaty would be void.

It already is. We just need someone to implement it.

The Union is dead. & Denying democracy is only adding more nails..

Oh, bad actor “Pat Blake” has popped up again to try and reinforce the “Ellis/Main” troll.

Goodness, they seem to be panicking…they are tasked to keep repeating falsehoods to attempt to ensure that the franchise MUST NOT BE DISCUSSED OR ALTERED. They can see the danger to their beloved ‘union’ if new-arrival non-Scots are barred from deciding on Scotland’s future, and scuppering the Yoon control of our country and it’s resources.

“…you must be new here…”
LOL, they’e sitting in the same fcuking office!

@ Hatuey says: 8 February, 2024 at 1:50 pm

I can frequently post here without having to make comments about the personalities and character flaws (real or imaginary) of the people I’m posting to.

I look forwards to the day I can say the same about you.

Haha, I crack me up – like I care.

desire to socialise

WTAF?

I’m here to inject the occasional breath of sanity into the ravings of some very pretzeled people. Scotland is a lot worse for the past ten years and a simplistic “black & white” explanation might start with the more or less complete divorce from reality we see BTL here daily.

Scotland won’t be in a good place if another ten years go by without a major change of direction. I think I can help with that and I’m going to continue trying.

Genocide John

Who are you voting for that YOU think will make Scotland better?

Blah, blah, blah but the reality is you are still in the UK and it’s not even obvious that the SNP (let alone Alba) will get a mandate for anything at the next elections. Would that be proof that independence is over forever? Of course not. Parties are elected for things other than a single policy. But if that applies to Labour, it applies to a Scottish independence party too.

While enthusiastic, Wings Over Scotland doesn’t have any mandate over Scottish sovereignty. You can’t demand that Scotland was never in the union or that you are respecting Scottish sovereignty by ignoring the decision in 2014. I can understand the childish desire to set all the rules of the game to suit yourselves but who is bothering to listen to you?