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Wings Over Scotland


As they see it

Posted on December 15, 2020 by

There’s been a very longstanding grumble from independence supporters about the way the BBC displays its weather map, but today we saw a bit of footage from the UK general election a year ago this week that depicts the Corporation’s view of the country more truthfully than ever before. We thought we’d share it with you for fun.

Screw your eyes up a bit and you can still just about see where you are.

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    1. 15 12 20 18:51

      As they see it – politics-99.com

    147 to “As they see it”

    1. Dorothy Devine says:

      They really are beyond satire , and not at all funny.

      ‘And Nation shall speak peace unto Nation” right enough they don’t mention Truth!

    2. Bugger Le Panda says:

      The ladt from Scotland was very erudite and took the wild out of the interviewers sails.

    3. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Ha!

      Soo-perb.

      ‘I can see the pub from here!’

      😉

    4. Shug says:

      BBC going he’ll for leather on the drug deaths in Scotland. No mention of the unemployment and poverty caused by the uk government of course.

      The bbc is very bad for your health

    5. PhilM says:

      For those of us with Welsh ancestry we’re looking at this map and thinking where the f@#£ is the rest of the country? I can just about see the speck that is the Isle of Man but where is Anglesey/Ynys Mon?

    6. wullie says:

      Wow that’s some inferiority complex. Look at mine its bigger and the rest of the world pissed itself laughing.

    7. “The most powerful form of lie is the omission”. Orwell

      ?‘Gleichschaltung Gaslighting: The Eradication of Scots Historic-Cultural Identity’ (2017) by ?#GaslightingGilligan https://wp.me/p94Aj4-ye

    8. Astonished says:

      The BB Collaborators were the enemy in 2014, remain the enemy now, and will always be Scotland’s enemy.

      So far the SNP have yet to publicly acknowledge that fact.

      The very, very least is they should always be referred to as collaborators. And their more outrageous lies should result in legal action.

      Glenn Campbell,sarah Smith and Kaye Adams should have had to defend their lying in court.

      I assume the SNP is too busy wasting money on genderwoowoo and defending those responsible for the Alex salmond stitch -up.

    9. John Digsby says:

      The only scintilla of fairness is that if each grid point is a constituency and they’ve made them equally sized then it makes sense that this would produce huge size distortions. My first reaction to this was “well, London is fucking huge!”

      And that’s why this ‘clever’ way of showing things is just shit. What’s wrong with just having a bloody geographical map with colours??

    10. Ron Maclean says:

      BBC weather presenter Tomasz Schafernaker apologised after calling the Western Isles and the west Highlands “nowheresville” during a live weather broadcast.
      BBC News Channel 1703/20 February 2007.

    11. Cenchos says:

      Marshal McLuhan was right.

    12. Tom says:

      Pillow Talk ..

      Here’s NS quoted in the Daily Record in 2012:

      “Being in the same kind of line of work (as my husband) has its upsides and its downsides. The upside is that Peter .. understands what’s going on and why I am so late home all the time. The downside is that you just end up talking about it all the time and you never leave it outside”.

      And here’s NS speaking to the Scottish Parliament last week:

      “I deal with confidential matters every day of my life … I do not gossip about those things, even to my husband. I am the First Minister of the country, not the office gossip, and I take my responsibilities in that role extremely seriously”.

      Source for both quotes: Alex Massie in The Sunday Times, 13 December.

    13. Fairliered says:

      And nation shall speak shite unto nation because England.

    14. ronnie anderson says:

      I remember the days when some of independenistas spend out time at Pacific Quay ( Shouting at windies ) as the good Rev described it , we knew who the enemy was way back when same enemy as today BBC .

    15. Sharny Dubs says:

      I’m so glad I do not watch any of this crap any more.

      It really is a shock when I’m in a pub or hotel and see “the news”, it’s like looking into an alternative universe.

      Yet so many are content to be spoon fed.

    16. Muscleguy says:

      The camera should have moved up to show how Scotland is so very different. That it did not show instead of tell tells us evertything which is wrong about the BBC and Scotland.

    17. Willie says:

      From the days when I was a schoolboy we’ve always been fed a diet of Great Brittanic shit.

      But maybe, just maybe, if they shrink Scotland enough on the map they might be thinking that no one will notice when Scotland goes independent.

      A bit like Ireland in a way where the maps don’t show Britain plus a northern corner of Ireland but rather Britain plus the whole of Ireland.

      It really shows up the bloated buffoonery that the BBC and their Westminster counterparts really are. Blimps, bloated blimps – and I’ll bet you some of them still have world maps where three quarters of the world is coloured pink..

      Reality of course for this mediocre offshore European nation relentlessly sliding down the world tables is quite a different matter.

    18. Muscleguy says:

      @John Digsby
      Because then London and its contribution and Manchester etc as well would be too tiny to discern properly. Making them equal sized shows the distribution much better.

    19. Stuart MacKay says:

      Starting Jan 1st, The Hunger Games is going to be a sad reality for most, as everybody has to serve the needs of the Capitol.

    20. Breeks says:

      Stuff like this used to get under the skin, (although in fairness I always thought it was calculated to do so), however these days, I look at stuff like this and see how pathetic it looks, but find myself thinking how much happier the BBC and UK Establishment would be if they were suddenly freed of the burden to include all of us ungrateful rebellious types, and were free to bask all day long in unadulterated Englishness.

      I think the best thing we Scots can do for our neighbours is to set them free, and make them a magnanimous gift of their Independence,… maybe even this Christmas? We Scots will all then feel the traditional sense of inner well being, that we have done the right thing and given a caged bird back it’s liberty, but freed two souls by doing so.

    21. Morgatron says:

      Thats not Scotland, that’s a pigeon shit.

    22. Sharny Dubs says:

      Breeks@noon

      I like the sound of that, us being magnanimous and that, has a certain ring to it.

      Like the cut of your jib young man

    23. Bill says:

      It looks like they’ve made Wales look very tiny as well

    24. BabsP says:

      This is James Robertson reading one of his “365” stories. He wrote a story of 365 words every day for a year – published – not surprisingly – under the title “365”. They are wonderful. Highly recommended. Inspired by the book, Scottish fiddler Aidan O’Rourke composed a piece of music to match each story – all 365! You can subscribe to the stories so that each story and accompanying piece of music is sent to your inbox every day. Sending a link is sadly beyond my tech skills but it won’t be hard to find.

    25. Robert Louis says:

      The lying, propagandist, colonial BBC, if a sick joke. Anybody who works for that shower of liars and Scotland hating Londoners, should be ashamed. They are the lord haw haw of little England’s colonialism, punting anti-Scotland rubbish, 24/7.

      In other matters, somebody needs to do something about England’s appalling education system. Kevin Foster, a Tory MP anf government Minister seem blissfully unaware that Hadrian’s wall is in England, and in fact runs right through the middle of Newcastle Upon Tyne, some 58 miles, SOUTH of the Scottish border. Thus, we have the aptly named place in Newcastle, called Wallsend. The clue is in the freaking name.

      Poor, Tory Englandshire. Served by thick-as-mince, Scotland-hating politicians from the Tory party. Kevin Foster, right up there with the Gavin Williamson’s and Douglas Ross’s of Tory world for stupidity.

    26. wullie says:

      hope this works.
      Scotland adjacent waters map.
      if not google here British Isles adjacent waters map

      https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FDgXsPfPUEAE8bKh.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Ftraquir%2Fstatus%2F1010473447355396096&tbnid=ODLfSoDp36C5MM&vet=12ahUKEwj-rcPU_M_tAhWOwoUKHUAHAj0QMygEegUIARC0AQ..i&docid=ynFekzcNpYsHZM&w=768&h=768&itg=1&q=British%20Isles%20adjacent%20waters%20map&client=safari&ved=2ahUKEwj-rcPU_M_tAhWOwoUKHUAHAj0QMygEegUIARC0AQ

    27. Alf Baird says:

      But….the map does to some extent accurately reflect UK population distribution, England & Wales with about 60 million people, whilst Scotland is about 5.5m, so Scotland less than 10%. It is people who vote, remember, and Scotland only has 59 seats or 10% of UK sovereignty. So the map reflects Scotland’s current sovereign or political power if you like, as a subordinate (i.e. devolved) entity.

      Bordering to and incorporated by a far larger populated and politically dominant nation, and lacking immigration powers, is an added dimension (of Scotland’s subordination and powerlessness). Census data indicates approx 50,000 people move from England to Scotland each year, which is one million every 20 years or so. The census tells us this is not a recent phenomenon but part of a long trend since records began over 100 years ago, and with emphasis on the professional/managerial classes.

      Demographics and cultural/linguistic imperialism also explains why the census recorded only 1.6 million Scots speakers last time. Important to note this aspect given that the loss of language undermines a people’s sense of identity, belonging and place. A change in the national identity of the population of a country also leads to the potential for further loss of sovereignty.

      It has been argued that “the Scottish independence movement….reflects the ethnic solidarity of Scots speakers” (Hechter 1998).

      Sae wha quo oor Scots langage isnae creetical tae oor ain kintra an fowk’s leeberation?

    28. James Che. says:

      The only MSM news that is allowed out today is to scare the pants of of you, it is either were bad, your bad, corona virus, bird flu, mysterious Indian flu, Tesco Aldi or some or food retailer recall unsafe food, climate change, Brexit, your bad we’re bad, Royal Mail scam, weather bombs, don’t hug each other, terrible teirs, Biden and trump, Northern Ireland, Boris, China, Russia, rubber bendy knees, were bad your bad, mind stay at home, lose your job and create havoc to the economy.
      Ratching up forthcoming wars, which we of corse will be of unable to attend because Britain is in lock down, and remember when your go to your family for Christmas meal, first remember to feel guilty, take your own knife and fork, and your own food which has to be a substantial scotch egg, and stand miles apart as if your family in front of you are strangers at a bus stop, do not dance sing or play board games while having alcohol, and expect to be followed there and on the way back by cap doffing, bendy knee people in uniform.
      Besides wanting a better world and government One and a half years ago most of us were all sane ordinary people,

    29. wull says:

      Robert Louis @ 12,15. At last a Conservative Government Minister, Kevin Foster, has a good idea. Why complain? he just wants to make the people of Berwick happy.

      But … does he even know where Berwick is?

      Must be that he is so dedicated to his own constituents that he doesn’t know where anyone else lives, and never saw, and certainly never understood a map of any other part of the country (or whatever it is) that he seeks to govern.

      When I say ‘whatever it is’of ‘the country’, if anyone asks him in the Commons what it is, he’ll probably answer (in the midst of much waffling on and on) that it is whatever he thinks or decides it is.

      Westminster government ministers increasingly look like the stars of an off-colour bum-note musical version of ‘Alice in Wonderland’. Heartily (if not lustily) singing their heads off from their discordant hymn-sheets, as they row their tiny little rowing boat out into the shark-infested waters that hungrily await them.

      Are they the new Pirates of Johns-Ants?

    30. Robert graham says:

      I think if I supported the Union I would be more concerned than independence supporters we realised years ago we don’t matter never have ,
      Now if they hadn’t realised before this part of greater England doesn’t register on the radar of most English people and definitely every part of the English establishment , defending this situation just makes complete fools of these delusional people, ” YOU DONT MATTER ” your just like the rest of the sweaty Jocks we are all treated the same with CONTEMPT they don’t know you exist .

    31. susanXX says:

      I don’t watch TV anymore – no licence – and I’m so glad. The TV channels are NOT our friends and we need to get that sorted in our heads. They – even STV – are foreign interlopers twisting the truth to suit English ends.

    32. James Che. says:

      Alf Baird, it is good that you want to hold onto your language, I believe every nation should.
      However do not for one moment think your identity as being Scottish is lost upon others.
      When I moved down to England in my teens and still at school, we were called haggis’s, even although the children had no idea where loch long was, and we did not have red hair an didn’t wear kilts or go around playing bagpipes all day, which is the stereotype,
      We were still labelled Scottish.
      It’s great to be known elsewhere as distinctive and unique, after a while we moved to wales and as Scottish people we were treated well, there were remnants of burnt out house and homes, so the English would not buy up houses, out pricing locals,
      We moved back to Scotland long ago, but the Scottish people are received and treated well, recognised not just for a language, kilt, red hair or bagpipes, but for uniqueness that is distinctively Scottish.

    33. Beaker says:

      I thought the map looked like Blockbusters on steroids.

    34. Ottomanboi says:

      Glad im of the generation that doesn’t watch tv.

    35. David Ferguson says:

      Robert Louis says:
      15 December, 2020 at 12:15 pm

      Kevin Foster, a Tory MP and government Minister seem blissfully unaware that Hadrian’s wall is in England…

      I’ve no objections to reinstating the border at the wall. Apart from anything else it would give us Kielder Reservoir, one of the few bodies of fresh water of any significance in England.

      I’ll put it in wee plastic bottles, label them “English Water – from Scotland”, and happily sell it back to them at a quid a pop

    36. susanXX says:

      David Ferguson @1:12pm.

      I don’t think we need to be so aggressive but I do think we need to man the border. And agitate for a referendum on Berwick rejoining Scotland.

    37. Frazerio says:

      Chippy uppity Jocks time. They will say. Show it the other way round then. I say. No reply from them as their head has just exploded.
      Two little exercises Ive learned to do when explaining the following;
      1) why is there a ‘gaelic connection’ between north & west Scotland and the island of Ireland, not nw Scotland & England.
      2) why did the lands of the Lord of the Isles cover such a fragmented & remote corner of the British Isles.
      3) Why was Orkney such a centre of thing thousands of years ago.
      The reason for these questions is the same. We look at the map wrong. We have been trained to look on the north/south axis.
      Using your phone/tablet or even an old fashioned paper map if you have one, you can literally change the way you see things.
      1) If you rotate the British Isles about 45 degrees anti-clockwise, its remarkable how much a) England is pushed out the way and b) the highlands and Ireland become paired together. In the age of boat travel instead of roads, railways & aeroplanes, short hops between Galloway/Hebrides/Ireland would have been the norm, hence ‘Gaeldom’.
      2) Now look at Hebrides onto Great Britain (Scotland) from north west looking south east. The Lord of the Isles territory covered the western isles and a rough semi circle of the mainland. On a north south axis it looks like an out of the way fring and doesnt make much sense. Looking at it on the new axis it makes a lot more sense.
      3) From the same NW looking SE axis, zoom out a bit so you can see European mainland, coasts of France, Belguim, Germany etc all way up to Norway. If you wanted to sail from Norway to France/Spain (or other way) there are 2 routes. Either through narrow English channel, or west of British Isles. On the latter route, Orkney becomes a very important trading post.
      Because we’re raised on ‘BBC map’ thinking, these things arent immediately obvious. Why not rotate the weather map? (Rhetorical question, we know fine well).

    38. LeggyPeggy says:

      The only good thing about that map is where East Dunbartonshire turned from Libdem orange to Snp yellow when Amy Callaghan beat Jo Swinson to the seat, LOL.

    39. wullie says:

      Oh Dear
      Looks like I effed up apologies

    40. Richard says:

      A bit off topic, apologies.

      Years ago while working on a building site in Dublin we had a visit from CEO of a large UK company that came over to oversea some of the work, he happened to mention in a real upper class English accent “when I go back to the mainland on Monday..”

      He was taken aside and in no uncertain terms told how offending his words where to everyone on site. He apologised and used ignorance as an excuse.

      Anyhow the point I am trying to make is that with regards the BBC and scot it is a reflection of the wider society in England who do not view scot as an equal, scot is sometimes an after thought.

    41. Nally Anders says:

      Leggy peggy
      Jo Swinson shot herself in the foot when asked on a radio show (and also filmed) “is a man who puts on a dress 2 days a week a woman”?.
      Spent a few minutes umming and ahhing, asked again and still didn’t answer the question.
      Hilarious

    42. Hatuey says:

      James Che. says:
      15 December, 2020 at 12:34 pm
      ”The only MSM news that is allowed out today is to scare the pants of of you..”

      Actually the aim is to depress you and engender a sense of hopelessness. And it works but it takes time.

      Human beings are natural problem solvers. It’s a huge problem. They see a hungry person and they naturally want to feed him, they see a leaking roof and they wonder how to fix it. We are neurologically hard-wired to do these things. This is why people do crosswords, etc.

      The goal of de-patterning is to overwrite the natural tendency to solve problems. They don’t want you to see a bunch of homeless or hungry people and start thinking of ways to solve that problem; they want you filled with hopelessness and to go away thinking everything is insoluble and fucked.

      This is the primary goal of what we call “the news”. If you systematically bludgeon people’s skulls every day with bad news and the idea that everything is pointless and hopeless, they eventually stop thinking about solving problems and go and think about more meaningful things like smart phones, selfies, and their hair.

      Problem solved.

    43. iain mhor says:

      That link was priceless, hadn’t seen that before.

      As for perspective, one of the best tools in the arsenal is Mapfight; if only because it needs no dialogue, no Indy exposition – just bring it up with your Nation of choice (Netherlands tends to be the starter for ten)

      The most common first reaction is silence, often followed by incredulity. Overall the reaction is interest and a whole new line of dialogue.

      https://bit.ly/34eWcDc

    44. Saffron Robe says:

      The BBC are, and always have been, Anglo-centric and London-centric. Everything is seen from that perspective (of superiority) and seeing things from a Scottish perspective would be as foreign to them as speaking Mandarin.

      Yesterday, I real Ottomanboi’s excellent link regarding the government’s misreporting of the dangers of Covid-19 (https://off-guardian.org/2020/12/13/why-this-campaign-of-terror/) and then I read the BBC News website. The truth of the article could not have been more startling.

      Therefore in the spirit of the new normal, and because we are all in this together (although we are told to keep apart), here are our Ten New Commandments, brought down to Earth from Heaven by Boaby fae Possil climbing the Ruchill Park flagpole and daring the Almighty to strike his tablet with lightning.

      The Ten New Commandments:

      1. Thou shall not breathe freely.
      2. Thou shall not bear false witness against Covid-19.
      3. Thou shall not earn an honest living.
      4. Thou shall not question government advice at any time.
      5. Thou shall not act or speak with impunity.
      6. Thou must follow the RULES at all times.
      7. Thou must shun the unbelievers and pour scorn upon them.
      8. Thou must surrender all thy rights to the government.
      9. Thou must not trust in the law nor set store by justice.
      10. Thou must not hug thy Mother.

    45. Kenny says:

      Thing is, none of their disrespecting would matter a tupenny-damn if SNP had been remotely interested in gaining Scotland its independence, some balls, a confident, global attitude.

      We all were brutally conned.

      Another thing that occurred; I came across my cancelled SNP Direct Debit bank details the other day (I cancelled it earlier this year) and I immediately thought; ‘That’s Salmond’s Direct Debit I cancelled – I subscribed because of him, no one else’..

      We all were brutally conned and robbed.

    46. auld highlander says:

      It’s just another example of Visual Propaganda.

      Last weekend I logged onto their iPlayer to watch The Hill. It’s an excellent old B&W film with big Sean playing the part of a prisoner in a military prison camp in north Africa during ww2.

      Anyway, a couple of days later I received an email from them wanting me to take part in a survey about the bullshit broadcasting c…..

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/send/u61149175

    47. dramfineday says:

      I do wish you wouldn’t do that Stuart – insert the word “Fun” in the text of your articles. As soon as I see it I know it’ll be anything but. BP gone sky high again.

      Reminds me of that wonderful piece that appeared around the last referendum time “The news where you are etc”.

      Oddly enough the very first protest march I ever attended was the anti BBC one in Glasgow. I well remember a young woman, well dressed, holding a toddlers hand, her face red with rage, howling “nationalist scum” as we passed.

      Yes the BBC have done well for their masters.

    48. tarisgal says:

      I COULD see where I am because the Scottish coast indents there, but I do take your point! That tiny little splash of yellow at the top, compared to…

      However, one thing they couldn’t avoid, that caught my eye right away, was the bright yellow SNP RESULT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of the banner underneath… 48 seats out of 57! LOL!! Course any English folks reading it wouldn’t understand how the tories & labour were totally dismembered by that. But – those in the know do & they couldn’t dim that result down! LOL!

    49. MaggieC says:

      I see this debate takes place this afternoon from the Scottish Parliament website ,

      Stage 1 Debate: Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill

      S5M-23682 Humza Yousaf: Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill—That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill. followed by Financial Resolution: Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill

      S5M-23531 Kate Forbes: Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill: Financial Resolution—That the Parliament, for the purposes of any Act of the Scottish Parliament resulting from the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill, agrees to any expenditure of a kind referred to in Rule 9.12.3(b) of the Parliament’s Standing Orders arising in consequence of the Act.

    50. Gregor says:

      “…figures show British trust in the press to tell the truth has fallen, with less than half believing BBC news journalists are honest and impartial…”:

      https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/16/do-britons-trust-press

    51. ahundredthidiot says:

      The linked video at the end was brilliant – made my day.

    52. Ronald Fraser says:

      Sky and ITV STILL use the tilted inferiority weather map.

      Where they tell us it will be “snowing in the hills”.

      It’s fuckin huge mountain ranges stretching across the breadth of Highland Scotland.

      They make out Scotland’s weather to be a disease, rather than a natural winter happening.

    53. Desimond says:

      Scotlands 2/3rd the size of England…2 or 3 bezels more like say Graphic Dept at BBC!

    54. Flower of Scotland says:

      I loved “ the news from where you are”

      AUOB superimposed Scotland on top of England today. Not much difference in land mass but we have a huge amount of seas surrounding Scotland. Good one Rev.

      I cancelled my TV license years ago. I’m not paying a British Propaganda outfit money to lie to us!

    55. Confused says:

      (talking of “news distortions”)

      I think I know what will be leading the BBC news tonight, oh yes … junkie death rates

      but really : “scotland’s” drug problem is a west coast + dundee drug problem, mainly caused by “weegie crack” – this is when you mix “benzos” with opiates

      – why this “fashion” caught on, you would have to ask the dealers/users; these mixtures tend to be “innovated” when there is a supply problem with the “good stuff” – but if the hybrids prove popular then that represents a commercial opportunity not to be missed. Edinbuggers love their drugs, their charlie, but like it purer – its like the east-west “salt or sauce”-thing.

      the introduction of benzos in the past few years has fuelled the spike in deaths, presumably because there is a worse safety margin – the interval between a “therapeutic dose” and a dangerous one, is relatively small. Remember, addicts don’t use electronic scales in medical environments, or know the purity of their product. There is also talk of a “demographic”-bomb, i.e. a generation of junkies, living it hard, being called to the great teaspoon and cotton pad-in the sky, in their late 40s, 50s.

      – that is the truth of the matter; a local curiosity involving “benzos”, or you can go with

      SCOTS ARE DEGENERATE JUNKIES

      – who cannot handle independence, and without the firm-but-fair “pimp hand” of the wise-anglo, we would not survive

      and thus stealing all your resources is an act of benevolent philanthropy, much as we colonised africa so we could give the hottentot and bantu, the railroad

      OF COURSE YOU CANNOT HAVE THE OIL REVENUES, YOU WOULD ONLY SPEND IT ON HEROIN

    56. Hatuey says:

      Alf Baird: “cultural/linguistic imperialism also explains why the census recorded only 1.6 million Scots speakers last time.”

      Really? I’d like you to explain that.

    57. Fireproofjim says:

      The BBC are certainly the propaganda arm of Westminster, but it is true that Scotland has a lousy drug death record which can’t and shouldn’t be hidden. Anybody know or can surmise why this should be?
      Some of it must be due to criminal gangs pushing drugs to young teenagers but the deaths are largely in the 40 to 50 year olds.
      One guy interviewed said he was in his fifties and had been a heroin addict fo forty years. What a waste of a life and what a drain on society. The reporter did not ask him what could have been done to change his life.
      Personally I think pushers should get massive jail sentences and long term addicts should have compulsory treatment in closed clinics. It would be cheaper and better for society than continuing with the failed policies.
      Is that too harsh? Interested in others thoughts.

    58. Hatuey says:

      Fireproofjim: “Anybody know or can surmise why this should be?”

      Alf Baird may explain it better than me, but I think a lot of people turn to drugs because their development as human beings is stunted by cultural/linguistic imperialism.

      Old paradigms wrongly put emphasis on poverty – with the 10 worst deprived areas in the whole UK all to be found in Glasgow https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/16343650.10-deprived-areas-britain-glasgow-claims-study/ – but apparently that’s all crap.

      It’s unclear if the cultural-linguistic imperialism causes poverty, which correlates generally with higher drug dependency, or if it’s a more direct causal factor in explaining drug use.

      All we know if this; if people speak more in what is commonly called slang (but which is in fact a language in its won right), all these problems will go away.

      Glad we sorted that out.

    59. kapelmeister says:

      The irony is that a lot of England that’s covered in blue in that map will be underwater eventually. Will England still try to ‘punch above its weight in the world’ when its an archipelago? They can always select one of their new islands to house the nuclear subs they won’t be able to afford but won’t be able to bring themselves to give up.

    60. Lenny Hartley says:

      Fireproofjim Couple of things , believe a lot of these drug deaths are.a hangover from Thatcher era, also Scots Govt have different counting methods and off course its reserved to Westminster.

    61. Stuart MacKay says:

      One of the huge advantages of being a small country is that it’s a lot easier to innovate. Portugal had essentially the same problem – a heroine epidemic. Here’s how they tackled it, https://archive.is/U1Q0O

      You still see the mobile clinics dispensing methadone in some of the poorer areas of Lisbon often enough so it’s still not a solved problem but the death toll and the crime rate is a lot lower than it would be otherwise.

      This is a situation an independent Scotland could turn around quite easily. It would simply be impossible in England where a desire to dispense punishment dominates all the political and cultural thinking.

    62. crazycat says:

      @ PhilM at 11.05

      I think the speck you are identifying as the Isle of Man is Ynys Môn.

      The IoM would not be represented, because it has its own parliament and is not in the UK. The simultaneous distortions introduced by making constituencies the same size and tilting the map cause North Wales to be almost invisible. The constitiuencies there are mostly green, which doesn’t help their visibility either.

    63. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      I remember this map at the time.I think the excuse was it was a map of constituency seats, was the way they put it lol. Nothing to get worked up about sweaties.Wind your necks in.

      That’s why it looks like a blockbusters game map.Very hard to see the borders though ain’t it.Their point was to get the BLUE map message across -job done for them. Arses.

    64. kapelmeister says:

      Ayrshire Rob @5:19

      It’s inappropriate that it looks like a Blockbusters map because there’s no sense of Holness about the UK.

    65. Hatuey says:

      “In a rare joint editorial, the British Medical Journal and Health Service Journal warned that “many will see the lifting of restrictions over Christmas as permission to drop their guard,” as they called on the Government to “reverse its rash decision to allow household mixing”.

      “We believe the government is about to blunder into another major error that will cost many lives. If our political leaders fail to take swift and decisive action, they can no longer claim to be ‘protecting the NHS.”

      https://archive.is/LFqcS#selection-1561.0-1561.278

      At last some intelligence is creeping into deliberations. It was a terrible idea.

      The best thing you can do for the people you care about this Christmas is keep away from them.

    66. twathater says:

      @ firefroofjim 4.32pm , I watch some police programmes on TV and what is becoming more apparent is the total lack of respect or adherence to the police and the law , every day there are more break ins , car chases ,car thefts , shoplifting and acts of violence , usually caused by drink and or drugs , yet at the end of these programmes there is usually a summary of the charges and the penalties inflicted on the offenders

      In a lot of cases the english CPS refuse to prosecute or when EVENTUALLY prosecuted they end up with suspended sentences of a few months or seldom 1 year , some of the car chases result in damage to the stolen cars and the police vehicles and put innocent people in great danger yet these criminal scum are NEVER asked to pay for their lawlessness , and yet every year car insurance and home insurance increases to pay for the damage these arsewipes cause

      As a supposed civilised society it is unbelievable that this is the best way our politicians and legal services can come up with to benefit people’s lives

    67. Seoras Liath says:

      Fireproofjim: “Anybody know or can surmise why this should be?” “One guy interviewed said he was in his fifties and had been a heroin addict for forty years”.

      Thatcherism brought the worst recession since the 1930s between 1981 and 1983, destroying one fifth of our industrial base and doubling unemployment – and that was before war was declared on the miners.

      In 1983, one in six of Scotland’s workers was on the dole and the number of unemployed under-25s had doubled to 1.5million.

      Unemployment raged through Scotland like a cancer and small towns and their residents developed poverty’s sickly pallor. Only the drug industry thrived and Scotland’s very heart seemed broken.

      There’s your answer. Hopelessness has come down through the generations.

    68. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      It is a result of British Imperial Legacy @Fireproofjim

      Look at the substance abuse statistics for First Nation peoples of Canada and America, New Zealand’s, Maori, The Australian Aborigine and not forgetting us “Verminous Scots” as per the Spectator poem published under PM BawJaws stint as Editor!.

      As Alf Baird (amongst others) has pointed out it is a combination of low self esteem generated by the imposition of English Imperial Culture, the lack of opportunities afforded them etc.

      Thatcher destroying Scotland’s Heavy Industry (to protect England via EU dictat re Polish Coal and Steel) was an additional socio economic factor when thousands were left to “rot on the sofa”.

    69. Col says:

      I find it hard to believe that Scottish drug deaths are so different from other countries. Now I’m not saying there isn’t a problem but the differences seem unbelievably large. I just wonder if there is something different in the way we are counting drug related deaths, I note that the ONS does not use this term for the England/Wales stats, they use a definition “deaths related to drug poisoning”.

    70. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      @Col

      Scotland records all deaths where drugs are found in the deceased system as a ‘drug related death’

      I don’t believe the rest of the UK Home Nations do.

      Similar to Covid!

    71. MaggieC says:

      Re Scottish drugs deaths , Read this from Mr Malky on twitter ,

      https://twitter.com/MrMalky/status/1338892460211253248?s=20

      The way that Scotland records drugs deaths is different from the rest of the UK and other countries .

    72. Dan says:

      @ Col
      Lenny mentioned there is a difference is how the stats are collated.
      I understand it is something along the lines of: If any person in Scotland that dies has drugs in their system, it is counted as a drug death in Scotland, even if the drugs were not the cause of death, where as elsewhere drugs need to be the actual cause of death to be counted.
      Happy to be corrected on this but previously recall reading this is the case.

    73. Ottomanboi says:

      As Bill Gates and the World Economic Forum see it.
      https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/05/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-covid-19-vaccine
      Gates has no qualifications in this field. He has major financial interests though.
      His concern to get ‘the poor’ vaccinated is menacing.
      “I think that low-income countries should be some of the first to receive it, because people will be at a much higher risk of dying in those places”.
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-54418613
      So why is he pushing this.
      Maybe because he’s a big eugenics advocate.
      https://tricentennial.us/2020/03/28/bill-gates-and-eugenics-the-world-needs-fewer-people/
      Do ‘the brains’ operating the SNP buy onto this stuff too?
      WEF is also a fan of this.
      https://es.weforum.org/platforms/covid-action-platform/projects/hour-of-pride
      Sinister!

    74. PacMan says:

      Shug says: 15 December, 2020 at 11:01 am

      BBC going he’ll for leather on the drug deaths in Scotland. No mention of the unemployment and poverty caused by the uk government of course.

      Hope so as it is the UK government whichis stopping fix rooms being set up here which will help deal with this public health issue.

    75. MaggieC says:

      From for women.scot on twitter

      The magnificent Joanna Cherry, everyone, who will not allow women to be left behind.
      Social media giants must protect women under their Hateful Conduct Policies, as they rightly protect other groups. The UK Govt Minister agrees. Sooner rather than later if you please,

      .https://twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1338895647781642242?s=20

    76. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Fireproofjim, re ‘The BBC are certainly the propaganda arm of Westminster, but it is true that Scotland has a lousy drug death record which can’t and shouldn’t be hidden. Anybody know or can surmise why this should be?’

      Scot Govs Medical Health expert – retired now, Surgeon – Sir Harry Burns. He did a whole lot of research into this very thing. If you ever get a chance to go and listen to one of his talks, take it, he’s fab. From memory, this is what I took away from his lecture in 2-13.

      When you look at the history and data, of Scotland’s health and death record – certain facts emerge.

      The image of Scotland as historically being the drunk man of Europe – not true. A memo exists from the Alcohol companies, back in the 1920’s highlighting that they need to persuade the Scots to buy more alcohol… and recommending targeted advertising.

      Then if you drill down into the age groups, and sex, of the death statistics, and compare that to other countries worldwide – generally speaking not a lot of difference.

      The one area, where the statistics really, really spiked – and had a significant knock on effect – on the entire stats – were young adult males.

      And if you think about it – if someone dies at age 64 instead of 69 – it does not alter the stats very much.

      But if someone dies at age 22 – it really moves them.

      So then he analysed the causes of death among young adult males – Accidents, Suicides, Ill health, Drugs Overdose, and as a result of Violent crime.

      Death as a result of Violent Crime was the statistic which was really high compared to other countries worldwide. The other groups were very similar.

      Then he looked at studies about what ‘successful’ people had in common. Studies were done after the Holocaust – with survivors, survivors who went on to build new families, businesses, and lives after having suffered and lost so much.

      The thing they had in common – was that in the early years, whoever was bringing them up – instilled/empowered in them a self belief that they always have choices.

      From his own working history in the Glasgow hospitals – he saw such a correlation of ill health, coupled with poverty, and mass unemployment.

      He then looked at extraordinary examples of ‘no hope cases’ that had managed to get their lives back on track.

      What he found was that having been passed from pillar to post, through every official organisation, they quite often were written off, and ended up with willing, but inexperienced volunteer organisations. And the first thing these organisations did, was sit the person down, admit their lack of experience, and get the person to ‘write their own’ program/schedule of wellbeing.

      In other words – they empowered the person, instead of ‘doing things to’ the person.

      It was on the back of this research that the SNP (under Alex) instigated 2 highly regarded – and successful – projects. One was the high profile clamp down on gangs and knife crime in the West of Scotland. The other was the Early Intervention program.

      As I say the above is from memory. His talk was evidenced at each stage.

      With regards drugs and addicts. The old cliche about jailing the pushers, and rehabbing the addicts – is just that. All the addicts sell the drugs to each other. And while there are folk making big money as top sellers, by the time the Police deal with the shop liftings, Housebreakings, feral kids, false claims about thefts (made by Drug Addicts looking for a crisis loan), and fights between drug addicts over debts – during which time both parties make false allegations about the others) – the very last thing the cops on the ground have time to do, is gather and submit enough intelligence entries in order to then draft and crave a warrant from the a Judge – and then get enough staff on duty in order to execute the warrant….

      The biggest drug, with the highest Policing Bill is Alcohol. Prohibition does not work. Dealing with it as a Health issue has been by far the most sensible approach. ultimately narcotics are a Health Issue.

    77. PacMan says:

      MaggieC says: 15 December, 2020 at 6:16 pm

      Re Scottish drugs deaths , Read this from Mr Malky on twitter ,

      https://twitter.com/MrMalky/status/1338892460211253248?s=20

      The way that Scotland records drugs deaths is different from the rest of the UK and other countries .

      Drugs related issues is being treated solely as a public health here rather than from the different angles like health, crime, social and economic ones which is done elsewhere.

      Of course it isn’t being framed that way in the media but surprise, surprise….

    78. Nally Anders says:

      Stuart McKay @ 5.05
      BBC News – Mobile ‘fix room’ begins operating in Glasgow
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53991090

      Scottish government already looked at providing ‘safe consumption rooms’ for drug users. Good results for saving lives in parts of Canada and some US states. They basically take the view that drug users, use. Might as well provide medical help to keep them safe.
      Bottom line- Scotland was not permitted. WM takes the view that drugs are illegal and in providing safe spaces, Scotland was legalising by the back door.
      I take the view that others here have expressed. Grinding poverty and despair. With some it’s childhood trauma. Pal worked in a stress clinic in a deprived area, she says 90% of the younger people she saw were victims of sexual abuse and invariably it was a close family member.
      Brexit promises more families falling through the cracks. I’m not optimistic of any improvement in the figures.

    79. PacMan says:

      Fireproofjim says: 15 December, 2020 at 4:32 pm

      Personally I think pushers should get massive jail sentences and long term addicts should have compulsory treatment in closed clinics. It would be cheaper and better for society than continuing with the failed policies.
      Is that too harsh? Interested in others thoughts.

      As long as there is demand and profits from desperate people, it doesn’t matter how many pushers you take off the street, there will be those who will take their place.

      What really needs to be happen is nationalise hard drugs by putting it on the NHS. In doing that, it wrecks the economics of the trade so street pushing is stopped and the creation of new addicts are controlled. It also allows existing addicts to be taken into the health system and monitored so they can have full recoveries.

      The only alternative is doing the exact opposite which Duterte in the Philippines was elected President to do. He said he would wipe out his countries drug problem in six months after getting elected. It’s nearly four years now and after slaughtering pushers in their thousands through death squads, he’s still at it.

      Prohibition doesn’t work and neither does the status quo. There needs to be some radical thinking on this.

    80. Col says:

      @ Dan,

      Yes thanks for that, so maybe comparing apples an oranges. If true then the numbers are meaningless. FFS.

    81. Polly says:

      Tiny little Scotland. It came as a shock to me when I found out we were about average in size in European terms. Too few people realise scale, unless a country is either tiny or huge. USA is pretty small compared to what I’d imagined as a child and Russia much bigger.

      Stuart MacKay says

      ‘a heroine epidemic‘

      🙂 about time we had one of those

    82. Beaker says:

      Speaking from personal experience, drink is a far greater problem than drugs. I am practically teetotal, bar the odd bottle of cider in summer. Too many family issues caused me to avoid alcohol.

      Prohibition is not the answer, but neither is blanket legalisation. I have no qualms about legalising marijuana, provided it is only available from approved suppliers. If people are allowed to take drugs, it has to be in a controlled and socially acceptable manner – same as with alcohol.

      Why anyone takes waccy baccy is beyond me. It fucking stinks.

    83. Bob Mack says:

      I agree that drugs should be mzde available and be the responsibility of a service which is NHS attached.

      Drugs are more than a habit. They become a lifestyle, and everything in life is geared to fulfilling the need.

      Cannabis usage is rife in Scotland and in some ways is less problematic, though research does show in very young adults it can lead to psychosis eventually.

      Then we have the drugs classed on the street as for social usage shch as Cocaine and ecstacy. The type used for parties ,dancng, nights out,etc.

      Some of this group will graduate to heroin and Crystal meth.

      After that its always a downward slope.

      Its a very difficult thing to refuse for young people who want to maintain their social kudos and acceptance when al! their friends are doing it.

      I have spoken to people who think they are “cool” because they know drug dealers, like some badge of honour.

      We do indeed need a different approach.
      Something radical.

    84. Albert Herring says:

      So if a Scottish drug user dies in a plane crash, it’s recorded as a “drug related death”? If so, why on earth does the Scottish Government want to make Scottish drug related deaths seem much worse than elsewhere?

    85. MaggieC says:

      Seoras Liath @ 5.48 pm , You wrote ,

      “ Thatcherism brought the worst recession since the 1930s between 1981 and 1983, destroying one fifth of our industrial base and doubling unemployment – and that was before war was declared on the miners.
      In 1983, one in six of Scotland’s workers was on the dole and the number of unemployed under-25s had doubled to 1.5million. “

      That’s exactly what caused most of the problems regarding drugs in Scotland and 2 or 3 generations of many families (grandfathers, fathers and sons ) all lost their jobs at once and for the under 25s , Thatcher brought in her YTS schemes which were just cheap labour for many companies .

      Before Thatcher you could leave a job on a Friday night and you would have a new job lined up ready to start on a Monday morning . Labour weren’t any better for Scotland when you consider the poverty that many areas suffered under them as well .

      Also don’t forget that both the Tories and Labour hid the McCrone report regarding what Scotland’s wealth could have been through oil .

      MAY THEY ALL ROT IN HELL .

    86. Republicofscotland says:

      This is just one way in which the BBC undermines Scotland, I recall last year some bloke on the tv going around London with a map of the UK and asking folk in London if they knew where the border between Scotland and England was situated on the map.

      He then proceeded to give them a marker pen to draw a line where they thought the border was, the majority drew a line across from Inverness to Aberdeen assuming that Scotland was that small when the guy revealed a map from behind the one they drew on to show the real border most were shocked and said I didn’t realise Scotland was so big.

      Of course its the British media that wants to keep on showing falsely that Scotland is small and incapable when that couldn’t be further from the truth, taking into account Scotland’s maritime borders Scotland is actually bigger than England, but the mainstream media will never show that map on tv.

    87. Bob Mack says:

      As far as I can gather England had over 4 and a half thousand deaths from drugs . Certainly they may record them in another way, but drugs deaths are not like Gers figures . They may differ for many reasons.

    88. MaggieC says:

      Just received two updates from Martin Keatings , Update no 1 ,

      Update on Peoples Action on Section 30

      Dear Backers,
      Well, I have had a 2-hour conversation with legal counsel today on different aspects of the case and we’re locked and loaded. There are a few updates which I have for you on the back of that.

      Fundraising
      The costs to date of the Scottish Ministers entering proceedings, challenging every stupid thing and then dropping out, combined with the UK Government challenging every tiny little procedural matter in the hopes that the matter never reaches court because they don’t have any good arguments against the legal opinion we have advanced in court has raised a few concerns with counsel and ourselves. All of these hearings and the drafting of paperwork and arguments against all of these, what we would term “minutia”, has cost us a lot of money.
      That is in addition to the main substantive matters that we have had to deal with as part of the normal course of the legal process.

      At present, there is around £70,000 still left in the kitty, but counsel is concerned (because we have a number of motions that need to be dealt with due to the changing landscape) that those funds could start to dry up quickly as we fast approach the 20th January court date.

      On that basis, we’ve re-opened the fundraiser with CrowdJustice at http://www.crowdjustice.com/pas30. Now, while we’re not going for a hell for a leather rapid fundraiser like we did the last time around, we have re-opened the fundraiser so people can donate over a protracted period, as and when they can due to the current pressures of COVID and Christmas. I’ve said continuously that we will not ask for funds unless we deem it necessary. Concern has been raised by legal counsel about funding, therefore we are taking that pre-warning seriously because we’d be stupid not to.
      We’re asking, over the coming weeks if you would consider a small donation to the fund to bolster the war chest.

      The 16th of December
      As you will recall, with the hearing in January, the court ordered the exchange of written arguments between the party litigants in the case. These arguments have been exchanged and revised/enhanced over the past 6 weeks. The deadline is tomorrow.
      I have received the arguments from counsel a few minutes ago and will be reviewing and signing them off tonight. It is my hope that we’ll be able to release them publicly, but I shall have to take advice on that from counsel.
      Apart from that, we’re in good shape for January.

      All the best,

      Martin

    89. MaggieC says:

      Update no 2 ,

      Update on Peoples Action on Section 30

      Dear Backers,
      I am writing to advise you about a small development in the case.
      As I have said to you on a number of occasions, the Lord Advocate, who was called in this case to represent the interests of the Scottish Parliament by a qwerk of constitutional madness, is also a member of the Scottish cabinet (Scottish Government).

      We called him to represent parliament, not the Scottish Government. This is why we separately called the Scottish Ministers on their own. The reason we did this was to stop a conflict of interest with respect to the separation of powers, namely because the interests of the Government and the interests of Parliament are not always the same.

      The Scottish Government entered proceedings, then dropped out (we don’t have to recount that particular saga for you) but it seems that the Lord Advocate has continued to advance matters of the Scottish Government despite them having withdrawn. The Scottish Government Legal Directorate also seems to be deeply involved in directing the Lord Advocate.

      It is right and proper to be clear as to precisely what “hat” the Lord Advocate is now wearing in his continued defence to this action. The Lord Advocate’s defence substantively mirrors and repeats the now withdrawn defences of the Scottish Ministers. The Lord Advocate in these circumstances is constitutionally obliged to clarify to the court whether he is, in his maintained defence:
      (1) acting as a representative of the Scottish Government (of which he is a member under Section 44(1)(c) of the Scotland Act 1998; or
      (2) distinct from the statutorily guaranteed independence of his decision-making function in his capacity as head of the systems of criminal prosecution and investigation of deaths in Scotland under Section 45(5) of the Scotland Act 1998, he is acting in the broader public interest as defender of the Scottish Parliament independently of the Scottish Government.
      He cannot act as both.

      In a number of hearings (and written documents) we have reasonably asked the Lord Advocate to tell us whether he is acting for the Scottish Parliament or whether he is acting for the Scottish Government (who I repeat have supposedly withdrawn).
      He has declined to answer when called upon to do so.

      We, therefore have concerns that he may be trying to act as a jack of all trades, and a master of none, which could be detrimental to both the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament.
      Because the Lord Advocate has, despite repeated invitations, failed to clarify his position on this fundamental constitutional point, I have authorised counsel to intimate the case to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body (who represent the Scottish Parliament in its day to day operations) so that they are duly and fully aware of this action, and of the arguments being advanced in their name on the matter of its powers and legislative competence which is, or is not being offered by the Lord Advocate – This is so they can decide for themselves if they are being properly represented by the Lord Advocate or not.
      As always, I hope you are all safe and well, and I shall send you more updates as they are forthcoming.
      Sincerely,

      Martin Keatings

    90. wee monkey says:

      “Albert Herring says:
      15 December, 2020 at 7:09 pm
      So if a Scottish drug user dies in a plane crash, it’s recorded as a “drug related death”? If so, why on earth does the Scottish Government want to make Scottish drug related deaths seem much worse than elsewhere?”

      Depends on what joystick he was holding I guess…

    91. Is it drug use that causes poverty or poverty that leads to drug use,

      and why have/do so many rich people take, the class A drug,cocaine, like UK Tory MP Gove and UK Tory Prime Minister Johnson.

    92. Effijy says:

      Whoops Bastards at BBC forgot to mention that Scotland has a different method
      of qualifying drug deaths. One that is more honest and accurate so of course that’s
      No use to Westminster.

      Forget to say we asked for some of Westminster’s controls to deal with drug deaths
      But of course that was rejected.

      Don’t mention the £2 Billion Scotland has had cut from its budget which of course cuts
      all budgets and stops new. schemes from being launched.

      Don’t for one minute think that Tory austerity driving people into poverty has anything to do with it,
      Not all that comes with Covid.

      It’s all our own fault and England are the supreme race.
      Just ask them!

    93. Will the vaccine work with this `new strain of Covid`.

      `New strain` will think it`s Christmas on Christmas Day,

      St Nic needs to cancell Christmas nowish.

    94. Muscleguy says:

      “Thou must not hug thy Mother.”

      If you do not want to give her Covid or Influenza. You cannot be absolutely sure you are not carrying it. That is why not.

      Do you really want to harm your mother?

    95. Dan says:

      “Thou must not hug thy Mother.”… Unless the crazy old roaster voted No and kept Scotland locked down in this all encompassing shitey situation where we can’t do anything to properly address dealing with covid nor a myriad other bad shiz!

      Just a bit of bantz…

    96. Alf Baird says:

      Hatuey @ 4.28

      You ask about cultural and linguistic imperialism and why there are only 1.6m Scots language speakers in Scotland according to the census:

      “Cultural imperialism is the imposition by one usually politically or economically dominant community of various aspects of its own culture onto another nondominant community” (Tobin 2007). This imposition takes a number of forms such as:

      1. the state’s refusal to teach the indigenous language(s);
      2. The state makes compulsory the teaching of the imposed language;
      3. the establishment of a ‘cultural hegemony’ and meritocracy based on the dominant culture and language (Gramsci; Buttigieg; Bourdieu & Passeron)

      What we see as a consequence (of cultural and linguistic imperialism) is the marginalization of Scots language speakers through “..the dominance asserted and retained by the establishment and continuous reconstitution of structural and cultural inequalities between English and other languages” (Phillipson 1992).

      You later stated that: “It’s unclear if the cultural-linguistic imperialism causes poverty”?

      There is a very extensive literature on the subject of ethnic oppression of minority and colonised peoples and its negative consequences. This includes psychological effects of Scottish children being made to feel ashamed of their own language in school (Purves 1997). An Anglophone cultural hegemony effectively limits the personal and intellectual freedoms of those in ‘subordinate’ language groups leading to feelings of self-deprecation and fear (Prilleltensky & Gonick 1996). Over time oppression becomes a widespread systemic injustice that creates systematic disparities affecting the well-being and development of the oppressed group.

      Cultural imperialism has serious mental health implications for indigenous native language speakers, as is well documented in studies of many oppressed aborigine communities. For instance it results in Appropriated Racial Oppression (Internalized Racism) where “members of subordinate groups – especially those experiencing greater social and material deprivation – internalize negative views of the dominant culture and accept their subordinate status and related unfair treatment as ‘deserved’ and hence non discriminatory” (Krieger 2000).

      And on the relationship between cultural oppression and poverty, this from the post-colonial literature:

      “The poverty of the people, national oppression and the inhibition of culture are one and the same thing” (Fanon 1967).

      This and more is covered in my recent textbook: ‘Doun-Hauden: The Socio-Political Determinants of Scottish Independence’

    97. robertknight says:

      BritNat Brainwashing Channel

      ‘Nuff said!

    98. Dan says:

      “Thou must however hug thy Grandparents”…

      https://twitter.com/ProfPMiddleton/status/1338470289026527232

    99. Stuart MacKay says:

      Polly @7:04pm

      And of course, you’d be at the top of my list of heroines.

      D’Oh, stupid spellchecker

    100. Stuart MacKay says:

      Polly @7:04pm

      And of course, you’d be at the top of the heroine list.

      D’oh! stupid spellchecker

    101. Dunadd says:

      Could our MPs and MSPs please take to referring to the Conservatives as the English “Nationalist” Party at every opportunity.

      Ross and the Vichy Scots would love it.

    102. solarflare says:

      I’m sure it’s not going to be a popular opinion but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that map. All the hexagon tiles are the same size. That’s the point.

      It’s designed to represent every constituency as an equal size regardless of the size or population of it. There’s 11 times as many constituencies in the rest of the UK. They haven’t used smaller tiles for Scotland. The shot at that angle is distorting but it was designed to be used in the coverage in a directly overhead fashion.

      See e.g.:
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50770798
      https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/labour-general-election-conservatives-070954570.html

      On a UK-level it is a particularly useful representation because if you look at some of the standard maps it in general makes the Conservatives look as if they’ve won elections considerably more heavily than the reality is because of Labour’s clustering of the vote in concentrated city/urban areas – the constituency representation makes it more representative a map in pure seats won than in a pure constituency geographical perspective.

      It makes the point for Scottish independence not because it is some yoon view that maps must be distorted to push the concept of Scottish inferiority but merely because it shows quite how imbalanced the “Union” is when you have one constituent of it that so heavily outweighs the rest in number of constituencies – driven by the difference in population etc.

    103. Dan says:

      @ solarflare

      Re. Proportional representation of population…
      It’s also just a current snapshot in time which fails to capture the differing population growth rates of the two kingdoms over the 300 years of the union.
      England’s population was approximately 5 times larger than that of Scotland in 1700, but over the 300 hunner years since then, England’s has grown to approximately 10 times larger with all the benefit that yielded for England in infrastructure development and economic activity.
      This matter breaches aspects of the union that states no constituent part should have an economic advantage over another.
      Significant and continual divergence in population growth rates between the two kingdoms over the course of the union clearly highlights that the UK Government failed to develop and implement policies to address this situation.

    104. Effijy says:

      Just available for all in the UK- well if you are stinking rich!

      Update on Peoples Action on Section 30

      Dear Backers,
      Well, I have had a 2-hour conversation with legal counsel today on different aspects of the case and we’re locked and loaded. There are a few updates which I have for you on the back of that.

      Fundraising
      The costs to date of the Scottish Ministers entering proceedings, challenging every stupid thing and then dropping out, combined with the UK Government challenging every tiny little procedural matter in the hopes that the matter never reaches court because they don’t have any good arguments against the legal opinion we have advanced in court has raised a few concerns with counsel and ourselves. All of these hearings and the drafting of paperwork and arguments against all of these, what we would term “minutia”, has cost us a lot of money.
      That is in addition to the main substantive matters that we have had to deal with as part of the normal course of the legal process.
      At present, there is around £70,000 still left in the kitty, but counsel is concerned (because we have a number of motions that need to be dealt with due to the changing landscape) that those funds could start to dry up quickly as we fast approach the 20th January court date.
      On that basis, we’ve re-opened the fundraiser with CrowdJustice at http://www.crowdjustice.com/pas30. Now, while we’re not going for a hell for a leather rapid fundraiser like we did the last time around, we have re-opened the fundraiser so people can donate over a protracted period, as and when they can due to the current pressures of COVID and Christmas. I’ve said continuously that we will not ask for funds unless we deem it necessary. Concern has been raised by legal counsel about funding, therefore we are taking that pre-warning seriously because we’d be stupid not to.
      We’re asking, over the coming weeks if you would consider a small donation to the fund to bolster the war chest.

      The 16th of December
      As you will recall, with the hearing in January, the court ordered the exchange of written arguments between the party litigants in the case. These arguments have been exchanged and revised/enhanced over the past 6 weeks. The deadline is tomorrow.
      I have received the arguments from counsel a few minutes ago and will be reviewing and signing them off tonight. It is my hope that we’ll be able to release them publicly, but I shall have to take advice on that from counsel.
      Apart from that, we’re in good shape for January.

      All the best,

      Martin

    105. Effijy says:

      Update on Peoples Action on Section 30

      Dear Backers,
      I am writing to advise you about a small development in the case.
      As I have said to you on a number of occasions, the Lord Advocate, who was called in this case to represent the interests of the Scottish Parliament by a qwerk of constitutional madness, is also a member of the Scottish cabinet (Scottish Government).
      We called him to represent parliament, not the Scottish Government. This is why we separately called the Scottish Ministers on their own. The reason we did this was to stop a conflict of interest with respect to the separation of powers, namely because the interests of the Government and the interests of Parliament are not always the same.
      The Scottish Government entered proceedings, then dropped out (we don’t have to recount that particular saga for you) but it seems that the Lord Advocate has continued to advance matters of the Scottish Government despite them having withdrawn. The Scottish Government Legal Directorate also seems to be deeply involved in directing the Lord Advocate.
      It is right and proper to be clear as to precisely what “hat” the Lord Advocate is now wearing in his continued defence to this action. The Lord Advocate’s defence substantively mirrors and repeats the now withdrawn defences of the Scottish Ministers. The Lord Advocate in these circumstances is constitutionally obliged to clarify to the court whether he is, in his maintained defence:
      (1) acting as a representative of the Scottish Government (of which he is a member under Section 44(1)(c) of the Scotland Act 1998; or
      (2) distinct from the statutorily guaranteed independence of his decision-making function in his capacity as head of the systems of criminal prosecution and investigation of deaths in Scotland under Section 45(5) of the Scotland Act 1998, he is acting in the broader public interest as defender of the Scottish Parliament independently of the Scottish Government.
      He cannot act as both.
      In a number of hearings (and written documents) we have reasonably asked the Lord Advocate to tell us whether he is acting for the Scottish Parliament or whether he is acting for the Scottish Government (who I repeat have supposedly withdrawn).
      He has declined to answer when called upon to do so.
      We, therefore have concerns that he may be trying to act as a jack of all trades, and a master of none, which could be detrimental to both the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament.
      Because the Lord Advocate has, despite repeated invitations, failed to clarify his position on this fundamental constitutional point, I have authorised counsel to intimate the case to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body (who represent the Scottish Parliament in its day to day operations) so that they are duly and fully aware of this action, and of the arguments being advanced in their name on the matter of its powers and legislative competence which is, or is not being offered by the Lord Advocate – This is so they can decide for themselves if they are being properly represented by the Lord Advocate or not.
      As always, I hope you are all safe and well, and I shall send you more updates as they are forthcoming.
      Sincerely,

      Martin Keatings

    106. Beaker says:

      Regarding the map, it also looked like one of the map options you get when play Civ V.

      That might throw a few people 🙂

    107. Polly says:

      Stuart MacKay says

      ‘And of course, you’d be at the top of the heroine list.’

      And so good you said it twice! 🙂

    108. deerhill says:

      “His concern to get ‘the poor’ vaccinated is menacing.
      “I think that low-income countries should be some of the first to receive it, because people will be at a much higher risk of dying in those places”.”

      So, Bill Gates wants to protect poor people?
      This ” because he’s a big eugenics advocate.”

      Not the usual actions of a eugenicist.
      Please explain.

    109. Teetering says:

      I’m reminded of a short tv broadcast decades ago by an SNP guy who I think was a Dundee teacher.

      In it, he broadcast the UK news but with a Scotland bias. The map was centred on Scotland and every organisation mentioned was the Scottish one by default with English ones as an afterthought. It was really striking for its difference and how we’ve become conditioned to just accept Anglo-centric news as “the news”.

    110. boris says:

      2018 Mandelson stepped up the campaign to get rid of Corbyn by hosting a barbecue for centre-left MPs at his home.

      The event, held in July 2018, was dubbed the “barbecue boys meeting” and was arranged subsequent to a meeting between Mandelson and Tom Watson following which they joined forces and discussed how to ramp up pressure on Corbyn over the summer, taking back control of the Party amid growing splits on Brexit and claims of a spiralling anti-Semitism crisis and/or the prospects of starting a new one.

      Those present did not deny there were political discussions, one added: “It was more about saving Labour than setting up a new party and it was made clear that the meeting, invitees and conversation was not to be leaked.”

      https://caltonjock.com/2020/12/15/how-israel-gained-control-of-the-labour-party-in-england-and-scotland-is-its-next-target-part-1/

    111. TYRAN says:

      BBC weather map was fixed a few years ago now, possibly due to Meteogroup taking over the contract and using their data. Sky News one is now angled.

      Unless the presenters can stick to a wall like Spider-Man I don’t see how they can have a vertical projection of that AR election map. But yes it does look rather crap at that perspective.

    112. Dan says:

      Back in the day The Fast Show managed a vertical “analogue” weather map that even rotated!
      It’s a sign of how shit humans have become that nae twat can emulate such basic oldskool interactive imagery using digital and cgi technology.

      #Scorchio

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZMUAd7OJc8

    113. Daisy Walker says:

      OT…

      For all those suggesting that Bill Gates has a counter agenda.

      On the one hand he thinks the world is over populated.

      and on the other, he is funding vaccines in third world countries – which might not be kosher??? Might actually make people more vulnerable?

      What if ? It is all a double bluff! And he’s trying to separate the wheat from the chafe and anyone who signs up to the vaccine is IN, and those who don’t are OUT?

      Asking for a friend.

      I doubt if we will ever know.

    114. Robert graham says:

      o/t
      I wonder how much pressure was exerted on MSPs to pass the thought control bill , I guess they were urged to pass it on the promise of changes as it progressed further .

      Oh Silly people look how the Independence promises was sidelined and more or less forgotten will folk never learn

      What’s the chances of Christmas being cancelled at the last minute our brave representatives will do as they usually do and buckle under pressure from Westmonster , the stick will be Money

    115. Robert graham says:

      o/t again

      Gates check out what he has and is involved in approach it with a open mind , and just look at verifiable facts and the history of his family and their circle.

      Now draw your own conclusions ,

      Microsoft applied for and were granted a Patent to gather human generated activity and moyterise the data gathered into a Bit coin tradable commodity still think that’s normal activity for a multinational company ? .

      I can’t remember the Patent number but it was granted this year and can be found by checking Patents granted to Microsoft 2020 in the US patent database it’s not fake news it’s all there

    116. Saffron Robe says:

      “Only the United Kingdom could secure a trade deal for an area smaller than the size of the United Kingdom.”

      And the only way they can do so is by breaking the Treaty of Union.

    117. Ottomanboi says:

      More on the Gates’ benevolence.
      https://fort-russ.com/2020/09/major-who-admits-gates-backed-vaccine-caused-recent-polio-outbreak-in-africa/
      This is a Russian site so just propaganda and conspiracy theory, isn’t it?
      The good Gates from Huff Post.
      https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/bill-gates-coronavirus-vaccine-conspiracy_n_5eb9ab7ac5b69358ef8a9803?
      Just propaganda too?

    118. kapelmeister says:

      Sturgeon’s gotta go. Since she’s been in charge the SNP have won election after election. Or as she’d put it “I’ve won election after election”. Whaur’s wur indyref? Somewhere over the friggin LGBTQ rainbow?

      Delivering election results is just meant to be the precursor to action. Too many cosy bastards in the National Party (oh how Nic cringes at that word National in the party name), too many take election wins to be the action itself.

      Even if by some fluke indyref2 came about under her so called leadership, all the murk about the Murrells would be used to derail it during the campaign.

    119. Bob Mack says:

      @Ottomanboi,

      The polio outbreak in Chad and Sudan has a valid origin, and is nothing to do with Bill Gates masterminding some plot to kill people. It is more to do with method and type of administration and poor sanitation levels.

    120. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Ottomanboi

      In answer to your questions.Aye conspiracy theories. Next?

      Tell me how many people in world would die each year if we didn’t fight viruses and bacterium’s ?

      Would we all still be here ?

    121. Sensibledave says:

      Solar flare 9.10

      …. don’t you come on here writing sensible things. Bloody cheek.

      We need grievance! We need to complain about everything, all the time, being a conspiratorial attack on Scottish Independence!

    122. Alf Baird says:

      kapelmeister @ 9.20

      The post-colonial literature informs us where we are at (Fanon 1967):

      “The masses have two oppressors now, the mother country and the single National Party dictatorship” with its “pampered bourgeoisie elite”, who have “made their own accommodation with colonialism”. In this ‘semi-colonial’ situation, “civil servants… sabotage the national economy and throw its structure out of joint..”. What we see is a “decline of morals, the installing of corruption.. , economic regression,.. and an anti-democratic regime depending on force and intimidation”. Features include an expanded and further empowered police force as one of the “pillars of the regime”, overflowing prisons, and a ‘justice’ system prone to malicious prosecution, and worse. In all of this, “the party helps the government to hold the people down (and thus becomes) an implement of coercion”. The party’s mission is merely “to deliver to the people the instructions which issue from the summit”.

      This is “the dialectic result of states which were semi-colonial during the period of independence”. For ‘semi-colonial’ read ‘devolved’.

    123. Polly says:

      Boris

      A very good article you link to there, not sure about the title though. The crew in question might (or might not) have supported Israel or merely used that country or Jews as an excuse. Using the term antisemitism, like using transphobia, is a very good strap with which to beat anyone you dislike, and the online organisation of the trans supporters is remarkably similar to the online antics of the Israel lobby and which they’ve used for years to mobilise their base. I remember some of the tactics to coordinate responses from years ago and see them now used by trans activists. As you say they’ll be coming for us next in some form or other.

      The statement ‘should have castrated the moderate-left and their supporters well before’ is exactly right. In any situation where facing an implacable opponent the only choice if you want your ideas to win out is castration, if not extermination. The opponents of independence know this far better than we do. People on our side seem to want the warm and fuzzy feel good factor of 2014 when we lost. People always remember the story of Robert the Bruce and the spider and trying again, but they fail to take take heed of the cold blooded murder of John Comyn, and in a church. Bruce had that cold calculating streak necessary, perhaps Wallace lacked it, perhaps Salmond did too? Boris wasn’t scared to follow that track in deselecting brexit rebel MPs, pity Corbyn didn’t have it.

      I agree with all you claim about the demerits of the last Labour government that some folk like to eulogise as a missed golden era or look forward to recreating as a future utopia. I also agree the preposterous Labour antisemitism crew are gearing up to take on Scotland at the next election and after it. Look forward to reading part two, thanks for posting.

    124. Polly says:

      @ Alf Baird

      Thanks very much for the information, Fanon 1967. Your use of quotes besides being on point in our present situation look to be interesting to view in their originally meant context. Do you mean the 1967 translation of Black Skin, White Masks, originally written 1952? Knowing little about post colonial scholarship I haven’t come across him before, but had heard much, and read some, of those who followed and were inspired by him, yet had never heard of him. He seems a rich and rewarding individual to read up on, thanks for the information.

    125. kapelmeister says:

      Alf Baird @10:30 am

      Fanon’s description there uncannily fits our situation in Scotland. I downloaded Albert Memmi’s The Coloniser and The Colonised recently and have still to read it. Is it a good companion to Fanon’s work Alf?

    126. Desimond says:

      @MaggieC and @Effijy

      re The Lord Advocate…who is he billing his time to?
      That should clarify who he thinks he is representing.

    127. Ottomanboi says:

      Scotland needs LIBERATION. No other concept will do. Liberation from the alien occupation of country, mind and spirit that has dogged and retarded Scotland’s progress.
      The shame of subservience eats away at the soul of a people. Resistance becomes acceptance, acceptance becomes psychologically internalised manifesting as self hurt, helplessness and despair.
      The signs of the latter are present in the system. Independence has become tainted simply a weasel word in the mealy maw of political hucksters.
      If it means anything at all it signifies a mere rearrangement of old furniture. We need a house-clearing, we need the frisson and joy of total existential decluttering, we need LIBERATION.

    128. Hatuey says:

      Alf, your Fanon quote could be a description of Scotland today. I predicted we’d end up in this predicament around 3 years ago on Craig Murray’s site. Naturally everybody thought I was insane – Sturgeon back then was still the darling of the Indy movement.

      We are in a fairly typical neo-colonial situation now, with a corrupted puppet government serving the interests of the imperial masters. These sort of arrangements tear countries and societies apart and sadly we can expect the situation to get worse and last several years, decades even.

      Corruption is at the heart of these relationships and they usually involve money going into safe offshore banks. The puppet government and its powerful allies will ensure it’s all kept secret and out of the media, strengthening their bonds and tightening the stranglehold on the country further.

      I asked the other day what the Indy equivalent of the term “red tories” was. Nobody answered. Maybe you with your interest in language will understand the relevance and come up with something.

    129. Is it just me or does there seem to be a lack of interest from the woke tribe about drug deaths,

      do drug deaths not tick any woke boxes,

      `not fashionable Kirsty or Rhiannon no rainbow and unicorn badges in drug deaths`,

      a 1000 deaths from drug use and silence,

      some man gets accused of being a man in a womans changing room and `the horror the horror`.

    130. Alf Baird says:

      Polly @ 10.46

      The reference is:

      Frantz Fanon (1967) The Wretched of the Earth. Penguin Books.

      I believe it was first published in French in 1961.

      kapelmeister @ 11.06

      Yes, I have found Fanon’s analysis of colonisation to be rather a fine template, virtually a mirror to the current SNP behaviour and related developments.

      Thanks for the Memmi reference. I see it also has a forward by JP Sartre, like Fanon.

      Hatuey @ 11.20

      You are right in that corruption is at the heart of the present semi or neo colonial arrangement, much as Rev Stu, Craig and other intellectuals here and elsewhere have repeatedly highlighted.

      On the terminology as in ‘red tories’, I don’t have a ‘name’ for them however Fanon again probably best describes the semi-colonial status quo picture as along the lines of: “The behaviour of the national bourgeoisie … is reminiscent of a gang…scandals are numerous, ministers grow rich, the members of parliament feather their nests and there is not a soul down to the simple policeman or customs officer who does not join in the great procession of corruption”.

    131. Polly says:

      Alf Baird,

      Thanks for the title, interesting both were translated the same year. I’ll look it up and am grateful for your quotes which provoked interest.

    132. James Che. says:

      It took years for Scotland to realise that beeb was a properganda channel, against Scotland, until the referendum. nowadays most people do not, and quite rightly so, pay attention to its messages,
      it took Scotland and its people a lot of denial, and internal wrangling with ourselves before we excepted the truth about our main Independence Party, that we voted for, not having our best interests at heart, and some still find it hard to believe,
      No one in Scotland would have thought that a hate crime bill, a male/female argument, or internal market bill would be taken up by those who rule us from above, as the people with money have nothing to gain, do they?
      I think this will be the the same case with bill gates and the other elites that run and plan the whole worlds direction, within the world economic forum, and the ordinary man on the street like you and I, will at first believe they have our best interests at heart,
      From a personal perspective, I have stopped believing long ago that the richest people in the world have the poorest people’s best interests at heart,
      If I were to ask any questions it would be, does bill gates, or any of his companies gain financially from vaccines,
      Another question that springs to mind, is more than relevant to Scotland, as this actually happened in Scotland’s history.
      If we, the supposed lower classes are not a hindrance, if we are not in the way, that we are not taken up to much resources, and therefore expendable, would they treat us kindly.
      they wouldn’t think twice, or with compassion about when you or I may be blocking their route, remember the profit of sheep before people scenario in Scotland, highland clearances? remember how they lied and kept Scotland in poverty over oil. To name two,
      Now make up your mind to believe anything your told or retain a reasonable doubt.

    133. Saffron Robe says:

      Dear Alf,

      Yes, excellent Frantz Fanon quote which sums up perfectly the situation in Scotland today. I first came across Frantz due to my interest in (and sympathy with) the African-American struggle, but as your quote highlights, he is a hero to all oppressed peoples.

      There is a documentary on YouTube about him which may be of interest entitled “Frantz Fanon: Black Skin, White Mask”.

    134. Saffron Robe says:

      “We believe that an individual must endeavour to assume the universalism inherent in the human condition.”

      Frantz Fanon

    135. Alf Baird says:

      Saffron Robe

      Fanon’s main focus in ‘The Wretched of the Earth’ was on decolonisation, national liberation and the restoration of nationhood, also probing the significance of national culture in that. The African-American human rights movement ‘adopted’ him to some extent, possibly more for ‘Black Skin, White Mask’, however Fanon is arguably more influential to the decolonisation movements worldwide. Interesting Michael Hechter who wrote of ‘internal colonialism’ in the UK, likens the plight of the ‘Celtic Periphery’ peoples to that of the black American community.

      Thanks for the documentary info, much appreciated.

    136. Saffron Robe says:

      Dear Alf,

      Interesting that you mention “Michael Hechter who wrote of ‘internal colonialism’ in the UK and who likens the plight of the ‘Celtic Periphery’ peoples to that of the black American community.”

      That was the only thing that seemed to me slightly out of place in the Fanon quote you gave, that “The masses have two oppressors now, the mother country and the single National Party dictatorship”. Forgive me if I have interpreted it wrongly, but the difference to me is that our mother country IS Scotland (not the UK which is a political construction) and therefore Hechter is right, we are under “internal colonialism”.

      And I agree that the plight of the Celtic periphery is very similar to that of African-Americans and we have common cause. I also agree it is more important to understand the universalism in Frantz’s work, but he was also proud of his African heritage. The following is one of my favourite quotes of his:

      “I am black; I am in total fusion with the world, in sympathetic affinity with the earth, losing my id in the heart of the cosmos – and the white man, however intelligent he may be, is incapable of understanding Louis Armstrong or songs from the Congo. I am black, not because of a curse, but because my skin has been able to capture all the cosmic effluvia. I am truly a drop of sun under the earth.”

    137. Alf Baird says:

      Saffron Robe

      The ‘mother country’ in colonial terms actually refers to the colonial power country in relation to its colonies.

      On the similarities between internal colonialism and the African-American situation, the theory of Appropriated Racial Oppression (or Internalized Racism) helps explain why members of oppressed groups “seek to dissociate…from one’s own ethnic group, and to seek identification with the oppressor or governing class” (Tappan 2006). We perhaps know this condition better as the Scottish Cultural Cringe.

    138. Saffron Robe says:

      Dear Alf,

      Many thanks for that. That’s what I thought, that “the ‘mother country’ in colonial terms actually refers to the colonial power country in relation to its colonies”.

      However, are we not unique in Scotland? We are not a colony like say India and Nigeria were, where the United Kingdom was the external ‘mother country’. We are not in fact a colony at all having never been defeated by the English.

      To me Scotland is the mother country and the UK can never be a ‘mother country’ to Scotland because I) we are one of the two founding partners of the United Kingdom and II) the United Kingdom is not even a country at all – it is a political construction. Scotland and England are countries.

      I think, therefore, that a study of colonialism is pertinent and essential to Scotland but we should always remember and remind Westminster of our unique position as an undefeated nation. Unfortunately, as you allude to regarding the Scottish Cultural Cringe, act like a victim and you will get treated like a victim. Or to put it another way, act like a colony and you will get treated like a colony!

    139. Saffron Robe says:

      Perhaps it is the use of the word “mother” which is confusing as it implies benevolence. In colonial terms “mother country” should perhaps be replaced by “abusive step-mother country”!

    140. Polly says:

      Saffron Robe

      ‘We are not in fact a colony at all having never been defeated by the English.’

      Haven’t we been? Are you sure about that? If not by force of arms then by force of oppression and coercion we certainly have been thoroughly overcome during all these years of union. The present situation with brexit surely proves how very little power we have. Westminster has all the power, our MPs there unable to effect change for Scotland and Holyrood has been shown to have no real power at all. England in that sense is supreme and we are utterly vanquished.

      ‘We are not a colony like say India and Nigeria were, where the United Kingdom was the external ‘mother country’ ‘ Again, aren’t we? All the power within the UK is centred in England, Westminster I know which is located in England, and the mass of population is there. Because the internal structure of the UK is like that then for Scotland (or Wales/NI) the power is located in an external country – and since by your argument Scotland is your mother country then you must agree power is in an external country for us just as much as it was for Indians, or Nigerians. We weren’t conquered in the same way they were, but that doesn’t mean we were never defeated.

    141. Alf Baird says:

      Saffron Robe

      You are right, constitutionally Scotland is not a colony, as confirmed by the Treaty of Union and by Scottish sovereignty.

      However, politically the country has, since the union, been treated as a colony by Westminster and the UK Gov. Scotland’s politicians and institutions accept and collaborate in this treatment on our behalf.

      As you say: “act like a colony and you will get treated like a colony!” Scots have to first remove the colonial mindset if they are to achieve national liberation.

    142. Saffron Robe says:

      Dear Polly,

      Yes you are right. I don’t disagree with anything you say. I was referring to having never been conquered militarily, but just as you explain we have been defeated in many other ways and exhibit the traits of a defeated people.

      However, I think it is crucially important that we were not defeated militarily because that is where our status in sovereign terms differs from other nations or places seeking independence such as Wales and Catalonia. Simply put, our ancestors died in battle to establish our sovereignty so that we would not have to. It would dishonour their memory if we were to take up arms. And understanding our status as a sovereign nation under the Treaty of Union, just as England is a sovereign nation under the Treaty of Union, is the key to independence. But we have to demonstrate the same fighting spirit in a legal and democratic way that our ancestors showed in battle although, for all the reasons you cite, the odds are heavily against us. Having said that however, the odds were massively against us at Bannockburn! If only we had a modern day leader with the stature of William Wallace!

      PS I agree with your point that, to us, power is in an external country (i.e. England), but that is the trick that the Treaty of Union pulled on us. It allows England to act as an internal power (under the banner of the UK), as well as an external power to us. At the bottom of all the injustices we have suffered and are continuing to suffer lies the Treaty of Union. All the laws affecting our sovereignty which have been passed since the Treaty of Union are like books on a shelf. The Treaty of Union is the shelf, remove the shelf and all the books come crashing down. Independence means returning to our pre-1707 status with all our land and sea borders intact.

    143. Polly says:

      Saffron Robe says:
      16 December, 2020 at 10:31 pm

      ‘If only we had a modern day leader with the stature of William Wallace!’

      Yes, if only – yet as I remarked to someone else Wallace failed and I’d rather succeed with Bruce instead. I agree with nearly all you say here. Let’s hope we find our Bruce before it’s too late for any of our lifetimes.

    144. Saffron Robe says:

      Hear, Hear 🙂



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