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Appocalypse now

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    1. 20 06 20 08:57

      Appocalypse now | speymouth

    2. 20 06 20 21:41

      Appocalypse now –

    199 to “Appocalypse now”

    1. robbo says:

      Lol , aye gid wan.

      The famous world beating track and trace. Who’s mate was it again that was furnished with millions of pounds for this garbage? Much the same story of the millions wasted on a ferry company with no ferries. Nowt changes eh?

    2. defo says:

      You do glaikit v well Chris

    3. Muscleguy says:

      Good decison not to show the officer’s coupon Chris. Those who have to serve the idiots deserve their privacy.

    4. Ron Preedy says:

      Great title!

    5. Dod says:

      With the current state of a BoJo and Co run UK surely a clapped out Sopwith Camel would be the bi-plane of choice ?

    6. Vinny says:

      If the car Industry pulls out of England and their London banking sector crashes due to Brexit, then you have to ask, just what does england produce?

      Have a think about it.

      So this “all in it together” will go out of the window.

      Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and northern england will be completely overlooked when Boris is deciding where any new companies will be set up.

      They will automatically be set up in the South East of England.

      The rest of us will be thrown the scraps from england’s top table.

      Where we will have to fight each other to the death for any jobs that might be left over.

    7. Rick H Johnston says:

      Rumour has it that Dominic Cummings sister was awarded Public money/contract for contact/trace.
      Not been raised in public as far as I’m aware, so I don’t know if it’s true.
      Said to work out of Barnard Castle.
      Near Durham apparently. Hmm.

    8. winifred mccartney says:

      Was it not the bold Cummings sister or sister in law who was developing the app for tracing at a cost of 250m – nice work if you can get it. The old boys network alive and kicking.

      BJ was noted as saying ‘symbols’ not important – except if it is HIS symbols of course.

    9. Bugger le Panda says:

      Glaikidity personified perfectly captured.

    10. The Isolator says:

      Succinctly put Chris,another triffic toon.As for the hapless Chunt Hancock it’s a national scandal.The truth will out though.

    11. John Jones says:

      Pity it wasn’t Scotland!

    12. Ian Foulds says:

      John Jones says:
      20 June, 2020 at 9:07 am
      Pity it wasn’t Scotland!

      Nice one!

    13. Frank Gillougley says:

      ‘Air farce one?’
      This is slightly OT but it’s all part of the same horror story – did anyone else think that Raabs reference to the GOT was a pretty accurate Freudian-slip description of the Tory cabinet?

    14. Socrates MacSporran says:

      <Dod @ 8.41am

      The Sopwith |Camel was, for its time, cutting edge technology – it worked. I suppose the fact it is over 100 years old might make it acceptable to the Establishment today.

      A more apt example for Blow Job & Co might be the Bristol Brabazon of the late 1940s. Named after a Lord, cost millions to develop and build, was over-weight and under-powered and not even state-owned BOAC would buy it.

      It was eventually cancelled in 1952 and is an object lesson on how not to build an aircraft.

    15. Scott says:

      Serco boss defends its work on setting up NHS test-and-trace system

      As Hancock has ditched it will Soames and his crowd refund some of the millions and should Carlaw not be calling for Hancock to be sacked.

    16. jfngw says:

      If the Guardian story is anything to go the Tory application they have been perfecting is ‘hide and seek’ rather than ‘track and trace’.

    17. Pete says:

      Where do you get your info about car manufacturing?
      Just last week both Nissan and Toyota announced the retention and expansion of their UK bases.
      In fact Toyota is building a new plant to produce electric Suzuki’s for sale across Europe.

    18. dakk says:

      Excellent Chris.

      Almost too real.

      So long as governance comes with a nice English accent, anything goes really.

      At least for the 50% of ‘Scots’ who are the cringers.

    19. Bob Mack says:

      Lost the plot more like.

    20. Breeks says:

      Julia Gibb says:
      20 June, 2020 at 9:09 am
      Outline of new paint job…

      Rather than painting it red, white, and blue, Boris should paint it yellow; the internationally recognised colour for quarantine, so countries like NZ can take precautions while it’s on the runway, before Boris bounds down the stairs trying to shake hands with everybody.

    21. Capella says:

      The Dominic Cummings sister story is probably a case of mistaken ID. The woman is called Cummings but that’s because she married a Cummings – who may be related but unknown atm.

      However, it was reported that DC’s VOTE LEAVE mate was given £250m to develop the app. No competitive tendering.
      Can’t be bothered looking up all the links atm. Sorry.

    22. Capella says:

      I would think a red, white and blue balloon would be a more appropriate aviatory device.

      Is the writing BRITIN ROOLZ? Not got my super telescopic glasses on.

    23. jfngw says:


      Lets see the story links then, I can’t find any as positive as your take on it.

    24. Effijy says:

      Don’t forget that when Nissan said they would relocate to mainland Europe
      If Brexit happened.

      Theresa May then had meetings with them where it’s believed she guaranteed the UK government
      would pay any tariffs the EU might impose however as the are Gods chosen race the EU wouldn’t
      Dare apply any tariffs or she would skweem and skweem.

      So looks like you and I will very soon be subsidising English based Japanese companies.
      Where did I put that list?

    25. Effijy says:

      Bug off Biggles!
      It’s Boris’s the Bungling Buffoon’s Britnat AirWAYS.

    26. Effijy says:

      An obvious progression for an idiot who has been winging it all his days.
      A good kick in the fuselage might get it to go.

    27. Capella says:

      A hot air balloon.
      Telling that all that hyperbolic spin about how the private sector solutions will solve the corona problem with their world beating app have turned out to be so much hot air.

      Boris was bragging this week about a great British discovery that some steroids can be used to treat patients. Today we hear about plasma treatment. Great British spin gain. Those treatments are specifically detailed in the Chinese Handbook of Covid 19 Prevention and Treatment published on March 18th. Three months ago.
      Great British bluff and bluster, probably from the people who brought you BREXIT.

    28. Pete says:

      Toyota are building the new Suzuki at Burnaston and Nissan are concentrating their European production at Sunderland and closing other European plants.
      You just love to read all those Brexit disaster stories.
      You know what – Brexit is going to be a great success.

    29. A Person says:

      This debacle is brought to you by British exceptionalism.

      Other countries developed apps to track and trace, such as South Korea.

      But instead of going “that’s great, let’s buy that, no time to waste” the Tories had to develop a British app so they could say “we’re world-beating”.

      What they forgot was that their crazy economic policies have ruined our engineering base so we don’t have the skills in Britain any more.

      Britain’s just weird.

    30. callmedave says:

      Excellent ‘blended’two stories together there. 🙂

      Auntie wie a kilt also going big on ‘blended education’ this morning bringing back McConnell again for the third time in as many days. Nearly an hour BBC worriment and concern for our children.

      BBC sees an open goal and gets yet another of the three Jacks off the bench to to side foot a trickler into the corner of the SGov net. 🙁

    31. defo says:

      Brexit is going to be a rip roaring, best of English success, for the City only Pete.
      Perhaps you might be allowed a bit trickle down, if you pull your cheeks aside nicely.

    32. ahundredthidiot says:

      They missed a trick here – should’ve called it the App ‘YouFlu’

      catchy and far more honest.

    33. Breeks says:

      I have to admit I chuckled out loud on hearing that Trump didn’t know the UK had it’s own nuclear deterrent.

      Dr Strangelove is now being Trumped by reality.

    34. ahundredthidiot says:


      It will certainly be hailed as a great success – there is no alternative.

      Personally, I will give it 3 to five years and if it ain’t working I will ride the coat tails of my good ladies Irish passport and get the f*ck out of dodge.

      There’s no way I’m bleeding chips in a dead end britain.

    35. Dan says:

      @A Person

      I’m rather surprised JCB didn’t get awarded the contract for building the Track n Trace App.
      You’d think they’d be the go to option if looking to dig a hole for oneself…


      It’s rather suspicious that a Government that keeps digging itself deeper into the shit has had donations from a company that makes excavators. Just sayin’ 🙂

    36. ahundredthidiot says:


      You feel free – but I wouldn’t believe a word John Bolton says.

      If his type got their way – we, as part of the special relationship, would likely be at war with Syria, then Iran, then Russia and then when we are all worn out, pumped by China.

    37. I honestly think Cummings and his chimp are just taking the piss,

      one day the chimp will proclaim a favourite horse as Chancellor (you don`t have to be an MP to be in Cabinet),

      Cummings and his chimp have an 80 seat majority,

      Cummings has as much power over UK as any dictator/monarch/ceasar,

      the literal meaning of the name Dominic is “Lordly”, “Belonging to God” or “of the Master

      Cummings is above the law.

    38. jfngw says:


      You said a new factory, where are the links to the story. Sky reports the Suzuki build will not produce any new jobs. Many stories saying about reviewing position in 2023. These are international businesses, if they don’t get what they want then they will move eventually.

      Although this could explain the Nissan decision ‘Nissan has identified Japan, North America and China as “core” markets – not Europe’.

      Just as likely that Renault as the largest voting share in Nissan they are removing them from the European market to a greater extent.

      I don’t believe you have any links, it’s just the usual Brexiteer BS.

    39. PacMan says:

      Given the events that is going on, it’s hard not to believe there is something in these conspiracy theories.

      Is Cummings & Johnson executing disaster capitalism on a grand scale? Creating and orchestrating chaos to deflect them divvying out taxpayers money to all their chums and cronies? A sort of mix between the Joker and Gordon Gecko?

      Even if it is just sheer incompetence, how long will people put up with it when it starts to affect them with for example not being able to go on holiday abroad and being continually put into localised lockdowns?

    40. robbo says:

      The Perfect Storm 2 is be released in the BOK in Tulsa,Oklahoma tonight.

      Donald Trump wasn’t happy with the ending of original “Perfect Storm” and thinks George Clooney was a bit of a woos and didn’t kill enough of his crew in search of fish,he thinks he can do better.

    41. jfngw says:


      Tories don’t need a conspiracy to see a financial opportunity in every situation, remember Churchill was almost bankrupt at the beginning of WWII but awash with money at the end, how can that be?

      Behind the facade they are no different to the businessmen of the 19th century, they would still have children crawling under the working looms if it was viable and advantageous to their pockets.

    42. robbo says:

      Don’t forget the chimney ‘s jfngw

    43. @PacMan,

      Cummings has an 80 seat majority in HoC till May 2024,

      he can vote through any law he chooses,

      he has power over parliament, police,military,secret intelligence service,judiciary,right wing thugs,BBC,most media,

      for the next 4 years his power is limitless,

      and he has plans to use that power,

      which some in the old establishment might not like.

    44. jfngw says:


      Forgot, the UK has always been corrupt, they get away with it and the people of England seem to be agog with them, why else would they support them so wholeheartedly. Possibly it’s the same as why US citizen’s love their system, they hope one day to be part of the corruption and exploitation to feather their own best.

    45. jfngw says:


      I did think about chimney’s but it’s not really a viable market now or in the near future.

    46. robbo says:

      Why did these people drive away from the scene of an accident ?

    47. robertknight says:

      “I name this aircraft Brit Farce One. May the world mock her and all who fly in her”.

    48. MELBOURNE:

      `Australia’s second most populous state announced on Saturday it will reinstate tighter restrictions on home and public gatherings after logging a double digit rise in coronavirus cases for a fourth straight day.

      Victoria state Premier Daniel Andrews chastised people for ignoring guidelines on social contact by engaging in behavior such as kissing and hugging as he reimposed a limit of five people visiting households and 10 people at public gatherings.

      “It is unacceptable that families anywhere in our state just because they want this to be over pretend that it is.

      It is not over ”.

      be safe out there.

    49. Republicofscotland says:

      Nice one Chris, nailed it yet again.

      Meanwhile a list of witnesses for a Holyrood inquiry into the Scottish governments sexual misconduct probe into Alex Salmond, includes the former First Minster, and Nicola Sturgeon.

      The currents FM’s husband Peter Murrell has also been included in the list. Some insiders believe the investigation will be damaging to the party.

      I’d add that Leslie Evans should also be scrutinised and sacked on the spot for wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money.

    50. Republicofscotland says:

      Manky shirt and some of his drooling jack booted unionist dullards, are to hold a vigil at the foot of the Dundas monument this week in Edinburgh.

    51. Beaker says:

      Great cartoon. I thought there was a typo at first, then my brain caught up.

      Chris Grayling appears competent in comparison. (I may have gone too far…)

    52. Alec Lomax says:

      Pete will be doing stand-up at the next Edinburgh Fringe.

    53. Breeks says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      20 June, 2020 at 11:36 am

      You feel free – but I wouldn’t believe a word John Bolton says.

      You’re correct. I have no time for the warmongering Zionist John Bolton, but then, I pretty much don’t believe anything from anybody these days.

      Too many lies, too many layers, too many schemes, too many betrayals. Too many crooks getting away with it. Too many good people being shat on. Too many obscenities becoming unremarkable features of the landscape.

      I want a Scotland that stands apart from all this sleaze, and stands firm as a bulwark against this never ending corruption.

      I want the type of Scotland that will stand with it’s feet rooted in one spot, steadfast in defence of it’s Constitutional Sovereignty, come what may and whatever the consequence, because doing what is right doesn’t come with any option or choice. But right now, seeing what I see, that simply isn’t the Scotland we’d be releasing.

      Holyrood, Westminster and the US Whitehouse all seem cut from the same rotten cloth that will lie to my face about their hand in my pocket. I wouldn’t vote for any of ‘em.

      Give me a call when we’re ready to stand up for ourselves, but all that I am hearing is white noise. We are marking time but going nowhere.. It isn’t that we lack the means to save our Nation. We unfortunately lack the resolve to do what needs to be done.

      The Irish made themselves a backstop from the Good Friday Agreement which served them very well because the International Community backed them.

      Scotland could have had an even better backstop, drawn up from Scotland’s ancient and sovereign Constitution and backed by the sympathetic Nations of Europe and more Nations besides. The fact Scotland has no backstop and has already been largely subjugated says it all, but don’t blame the Brexiteers because that sorry mess is 100% the responsibility of Sturgeon and the other gutless drips in SNP.

      It was actually the Brexiteers who opened the door for Scotland to get out this rotten UK. It was Sturgeon’s rotten SNP who closed it.

    54. Effijy says:

      The link earlier to the Guardian report showing that Borisland
      Had 22 consecutive days of 1,000 plus Corona deaths which
      Were conveniently hidden by Bojo’s Lying Curcus.

      Why is it the UK Media never finish a story when they hit pay dirt?
      So what with these new findings it the total Covid Death Tally for England
      and for its 3 local colonies?

      Will it be 60 or 70 million?
      You know how the SNP fought long and hard to warn England about the dangers of Brexit,
      Why are they not warning us of the true Covid death rates especially in England so they might catch
      Sight of a competent Minister and Scottish voters can see their incompetence, greed, corruption and
      The lies they use?

    55. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Is the writing BRITIN ROOLZ? Not got my super telescopic glasses on.”

      @Capella 1018: yup, and YA BASS on the other side.

      World-class UK kwality, by the way.

      Honestly, how can anyone in Scotland want to be ruled by these utter diddies?

    56. Vinny says:


      Re english car industry

      There is no UK car industry, there is the english car Industry.

      And Nissan are a small part of it.

      Car parts have to go back and forward many times through customs during the production of one car, this has to be paid for.

      Car firms will not tolerate these charges and just up sticks and move to Central Europe.

      The only saving grace is a 6 months deal between the englanders and the EU where they will run Tarrif free.

      After that runs out, so will all major munufacturers.

      As I said,,,the english car manufacturing sector is finished.

      Along with their banking sector.

      England offers the world nothing.

    57. John Jones says:

      Breeks on UK nuclear deterrent.
      The nuclear deterrent is based in Scotland, BUT the yanks have the launch codes, so much for us pushing the button.

    58. CameronB Brodie says:

      Social identity is a biosocial construct that reflects the genetic transmission of cultural values. So it is not in BoJo’s biosocial nature to be more human than the exceptional sock-puppet he appears to be. The PM simply personifies the human capacity of English Torydum, which is bio neurologically diminished in its’ ethical awareness. Scotland deserves better, and was guaranteed such in law.

      Recognizing Moral Identity as a Cultural Construct

    59. bipod says:

      Another interesting study here on the ferguson model applied to Sweden.

      According to the model, factoring in the measures that Sweden has taken, they should have had at least 85,000 deaths by now. They have only had 5000. Remember this was the “scientific” model that drove the UK into lockdown and generated so much hysteria. And nicola strugeon and boris johnson still regularly reference this model in relation to continuing the lockdown.

    60. callmedave says:

      Boris to reduce the 2-metre rule early next week say reports.

      Virus alert now at 3 from 4 earlier in the week.
      N. Ireland 1 metre rule for return to schools.

      Cough up money charge for a test at the airport and no quarantine (if your lucky to pass).

      BBC numbers are in for the colonies on their respective corona virus portal….but no corona virus portal for BBC ‘UK’ or for BBC ‘England’ Funny that!


      N. Ireland……….today…*01…….Total….*545..*SUN

    61. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s got nothing to do with the thread topic and is pretty obviously intended to dis-rail the conversation, IMHO. I’ve at least got some professional knowledge of public health, where as you don’t. Yet you still appear determined to influence public opinion. That suggests you lack principles. Just saying. 😉

      Moral Identity from Cross- and Bi-cultural Perspectives

    62. bipod says:


      Who made you the wings thread police? If rev doesn’t like it he can ban me and remove my posts. And I am not the only one to make a covid related post in this thread.

      Its pretty obvious you don’t like anyone dissenting against your chosen policy. You would think that three months in there would be some evidence that it actually worked, still nothing.

      Why do you think he is so invested in protecting a failed Tory/SNP policy?

    63. CameronB Brodie says:

      Are you sure you really want to misrepresent someone who has tried to introduce the WOS readers to critical discourse analysis and the art-of-law?

      Group-Level Differences of Moral Foundations

    64. PacMan says:

      Thanks to all who had replied to my post.

      I know full well never to underestimate the greed of the Tory but what staggers me is how open and blatant they are about it.

      No doubt as mentioned, with the security of a 80+ majority, the coronavirus, Brexit and now Boris’s Boot boys, unpaid mercenaries for hire at the drop of a bit of fake news, wrecking havoc throughout the length and breadth of the island we live on, it is hardly surprising they are doing it.

      I shouldn’t be surprised at this but when I took a look at the news websites this morning I just had one of those WTF moments and couldn’t believe what I was reading. I guess this lockdown is getting to me.

      Just to pick up on a point mentioned about Churchill, I’m sure I had read his sudden ‘fortune’ came from being bankrolled by the Soviet union in the 30’s as a way to stir anti Nazi feeling in political circles. I’ve googled it but can’t find anything. Is this true?

    65. John D says:

      Vinny @ 2 :47pm
      The UK / England offer the world money laundering. We do a good line in weapons too. Yer kids can go to our ‘best’ schools . Oxbridge and others can be the finishing school for the finest rulers . Don’t forget the scenery. Millions are catered for in the service of visitors and the business traffic it creates.
      In our neo-feudal monarchy we get what we are given according to rank .
      Tell me if it was never thus . That it goes against the best interests of the vast populations majority is a given.
      What’s to do ?

      Well done to the anti-fascist people who turned out in Glasgow today. The beeb web report was fun to read. They are beyond parody to the extent I feel sorry for the work colleagues they have on non current affairs and propaganda output.
      Oh Paisley, any surprises about the people feeling the need to defend the memorial by the Cross ?

      Vinny ,
      Forgot about the the actual , still going on human trafficking of all ages the UK still has a hand in . Wouldn’t want to guess the number of slaves living within the M25.
      And of course maybe the greatest gift of the empire to the globe though that is up for debate on both sides of the coin , the world drugs trade . Off for a walk with my dog mate . Peace

    66. Ottomanboi says:

      A friend of mine, a PPE student, has been watching the Parliament Channel on the 1970 GE.
      All very English, Oxbridge etc. apparently, Scotland and Scottish voices on the outer limits of the known universe.
      Not much has changed then.

    67. Yes us Scots who invented almost everything that benefits the modern world our acheivments are ignored or hidden but one of our acheivments is very well known we must have the largest number of trait— in the world people who are only to happy to run down their own country and their own people and in the media etc. Are paid for doing so under the guise of wages Aye it’s true what they say your own kind are the worst ???

    68. Joe says:


      Wasting your time.

      When/if Brexit finally happens and the sky doesn’t fall it wont matter either.

      Wishful thinking doesn’t require evidence and is not influenced by fact.

    69. North chiel says:

      “ call me Dave @1119 “ . Yes sick of hearing “ Lord” MacConnell on the hour every hour today on “local “ propaganda radio today pontificating on Scottish Education . Just as well we have a Scottish educated FM today who at least does not return “ Scottish funds” to the London treasury.The “ noble Lord “ should stick to his “ day job” (what ever that might be ?) in the archaic UNELECTED House of Lords and leave Scottish Education to the ELECTED government of Scotland . Perhaps he could now ask grovel and his unionist cronies for the Previously returned Funds to now be reallocated to the education budget in Scotland?

    70. Vinny says:

      John D

      Re Paisley and their statues of their Cotton Mill owners.

      I wonder where all that cotton came from to make Paisley the linen capital of the world.

      It certainly wasn’t Ferguslie Park.

      More like Alabama

      And I wonder who picked all that lovely Cotton?

      It was black slaves.

      I have read that the Mill owners in Paisley had kids from 7,8,9 years of age from Paisley working in their Mills

      Oh the good old days.

      They were chosen because their little fingers could get right into the back of the huge machines that made the linen .

      So the mill owners had slaves in the cotton fields and slaves in Paisley producing their final product.

      That Paisley pattern suddenly doesn’t look so welcoming now.

      And the only ones to benefit were the mill owners and their families.

      The rest were lucky if they saw their thirtyith birthday.

    71. Iain More says:

      Unfortunately they haven’t lost their way to the Tax Dodging Havens or their Scottish Estates.

    72. Republicofscotland says:

      North Chiel@ 5.20pm.

      The unionist media are allowing McConnell to spout factless tosh on education. Mind you McConnell, is know for it.

    73. Republicofscotland says:

      The ultra unionist STV news claiming that both saids clashed in Glasgow’s George Sq today I see they’re taking leaf out of the BBC’S propaganda book, when infact we know the knuckle dragging jack booted unionist bully boys,are the real trouble makers, who shame Scotland.

    74. Armitage Shanks says:

      Pete@2:47 Re:Car Industry.
      Hi Pete, I think regardless of Brexit the car industry is finished and will totally restructure to go all out electric production. Under the UN sustainable future mere mortals will be on the tram (if they are lucky) otherwise electric scooters, notice how they are always in the news?, if you can afford a new electric vehicle (which i cant) you might be alright but i think motoring may revert to being a hobby of the rich. Next will be the offer of free public transport for the proletariat to nudge everyone in the right direction. Only possible saving grace for Nissan is they also make batteries there and the workforce are still the most productive in Europe. Im always perplexed that the war on oil (carbon based economy) is never really mentioned on Wings when future potential Oil revenues for Scotland are discussed, IMO it should be discounted and be considered a bonus if its still around in the future.

    75. jfngw says:

      Joe & Pete, if Brexit will be the success you claim then presumably you support Scottish independence for the exact same reasons. Freedom for other countries to dictate our own countries laws, or do I detect hypocrisy in play?

    76. Capella says:

      @ Tinto Chiel – TONGS YA BASS was written on the subway walls 🙂

    77. Capella says:

      @ Armitage Shanks – oil has been mentioned on Wings from time to time – mainly pointing out that it’s used for so many useful things, plastics, fertilisers etc. Burning it seems like a profligate waste of a precious resource.

    78. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Vinny (5.42) –

      If memory serves, the Clark family fortune – i.e. Kenneth Clark, art historian, then son Alan Clark, tipsy MP, self-confessed nazi and all-round rake – derived from Paisley-based textiles.

    79. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Capella 6.20: indeed. I remember an old-fashioned Rowntree’s Fruit Pastille dispenser near George Square in the late 60s which had been artfully changed to advertise “The Tingle Tong Taste”.

      Ah, The Calton Tongs, the lovable scamps! 🙂

    80. frogesque says:

      @ Armitage Shanks: 6.08

      When China has had enough of pollution and decides that all vehicles will either be electric or human powered then electric vehicles will get produced in quantity and be affordable.

      Their problem at the moment is coal and fossil fuel production of electricity so they are in a catch 22

      Love the moniker btw!

    81. Colin Alexander says:


      Paisley was also famous for its cotton threads.

      True linen is a different fabric altogether and is made from the flax plant.

    82. Colin Alexander says:


      Ian Brotherhood

      ” “Slave owner” sprayed on Paisley statue amid calls for area to confront its past”

    83. Ian Brotherhood says:

      re Kenneth Clark –

      Clark was born at 32 Grosvenor Square, London,[n 1] the only child of Kenneth Mackenzie Clark (1868–1932) and his wife, (Margaret) Alice, daughter of James McArthur of Manchester.[2] The Clarks were a Scottish family who had grown rich in the textile trade. Clark’s great-great-grandfather invented the cotton spool, and the Clark Thread Company of Paisley had grown into a substantial business.[1] Kenneth Clark senior worked briefly as a director of the firm and retired in his mid-twenties as a member of the “idle rich”, as Clark junior later put it: although “many people were richer, there can have been few who were idler”.[1][3] The Clarks maintained country homes at Sudbourne Hall, Suffolk, and at Ardnamurchan, Argyll, and wintered on the French Riviera.[2][4] Kenneth senior was a sportsman, a gambler,[n 2] an eccentric and a heavy drinker.[2][6] Clark had little in common with his father, though he always remained fond of him. Alice Clark was shy and distant, but her son received affection from a devoted nanny.[7]

    84. Pete says:

      I take your point but, in my case, I much prefer to align with the English speaking nations of the UK than with France, Bulgaria and the other EU nations.
      I feel kinship with England, Wales and N. Ireland which I don’t with the EU nations and am quite happy to be part of the UK.
      I appreciate you do not and you are free to argue your point.
      In 2014 the Scottish people agreed with my views but maybe someday that will change and you will have independence.
      If you win a democratic vote then fair enough, that’s it.
      To achieve your objective you need a radical change as the present crop of SNP politicians are a poor bunch.
      You need someone like Nigel Farage with a socially conservative approach as Scots are, by nature, not wokists like NS and her coterie of weirdos. You also need to tack towards the centre of politics as the leftist approach of the SNP completely repels people like myself and, I suspect, Joe.
      You need to have someone totally focussed on the main goal and nothing else and that person needs to be straight, family oriented and have a pleasing personality.
      Who do you suggest?

    85. CameronB Brodie says:

      “You need someone like Nigel Farage with a socially conservative approach as Scots are, by nature, not wokists like NS and her coterie of weirdos. You also need to tack towards the centre of politics as the leftist approach of the SNP completely repels people like myself and, I suspect, Joe.”

      Farage (as in garage), is pretty open about his far-right and racist views, though some will try to paint him a moral realist and a wholesome saviour of (white) British culture.

      Moral Foundations Theory: On the Advantages of Moral Pluralism Over Moral Monism

    86. Name (required) says:

      it is very much a sad state of affairs that this site is failing into obscurity…

      perhaps its the trolls (and lack of admin)

      or its the lack of drive for indy.

      (indy at 52% give or take)

      stop wallowing in self pity for fuck sake stu, there is no disrespect in your quest

    87. Bob Mack says:

      Wouldn’t matter if support for Indy was at 68%.

      It ain’t gonna happen,because the First Minister wants it done her way.

    88. robbo says:

      Looks like have a right coronafest coming right enough tonight in Tulsa.

      Whats the odds on the bold Donald getting it this weekend too.

      Don’t worry Donald its only a wee flu and will go away.

    89. Armitage Shanks says:

      Capella says:
      20 June, 2020 at 6:38 pm Oil has been mentioned on Wings from time to time – mainly pointing out that it’s used for so many useful things, plastics, fertilisers etc. Burning it seems like a profligate waste of a precious resource.

      Hi Capella, Personally I would have liked to have seen investment in scrubbing currently dirty energies, imagine if just a fraction of Nuclear or Renewable subsidies were applied. But rather I fear it is a political decision not to and that the products derived from the black stuff will inevitably soon follow suit and be on the banned list as the reset button is pressed and we get used to the new normal. I’m assuming at least Scotland has further potential in Hydro, although I could be wrong.

    90. CameronB Brodie says:

      There is no danger that global society is ready to ditch the internal combustion engine. Nor find a replacement for oil as an ingredient to many industrial processes. Scotland is blessed with natural wealth that should enable Scotland to transform its’ economy to more sustainable and inclusive patterns of development and economic activity. Unfortunately, England’s Tory’s are hostile to the precautionary principle and joined-up-thinking, though they do appear to believe they own Scotland.

    91. Capella says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood – story is that young Clark (19th C), as a baby sitting on the factory floor, wound some cotton thread around a birch stick thus inventing the pirn. Cotton reels were made from local birch wood.

      Apart from the horror of slavery, the story of development and invention in the production of cotton textiles is fascinating. Paisley – home of the paisley pattern – a new weaving method invented by Thomas Coates.

      BTW the Southern states expected Britain to support them in the Civil War. But the British supported the North because they depended on wheat imports to make bread for the masses. They could get cotton from India and Egypt so they blockaded the southern ports.

    92. Armitage Shanks says:

      frogesque says:@ 7:09 pm

      When China has had enough of pollution and decides that all vehicles will either be electric or human powered then electric vehicles will get produced in quantity and be affordable.

      Their problem at the moment is coal and fossil fuel production of electricity so they are in a catch 22

      Love the moniker btw!

      I’m not as optimistic as yourself Frogesque,
      I think recent developments will be used to push the ‘new normal’ which doesn’t necessarily mean the individual should have access to a personal vehicle.
      If the Covid 19 scenario continues we may see itineraries having to be submitted and okay’d before any long journey can proceed, and of course road tax is now nothing to do with maintaining the roads but taxing the poor off them. Its amazing to see how the majority of us acquiesce. Its been a slow process but lately it feels like someone pressed the overdrive lever and all the stops are out.

      I see your parents also had a sense of humour when naming you.

    93. CameronB Brodie says:

      Britain gave considerable military aid and assistance to the Confederacy. This was only a few decades since the 1812 war between Britain and the USA, fought in the hope of ensuring American economic subourdination to Britain’s imperial interests. British forces burnt down the White House, the swine.

    94. Brian Sinclair says:

      Capella 6.11pm
      Interesting point re Tongs.; In the south of France ‘Tongs’ is local patois for our Cleggs! My take on this is that returning Glaswegian soldiers from Second World War action in this area were well impressed with the ferocity of these charmers so cleverly reused the name for their own gangs.

    95. Vinny says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      History tells us they brought great employment to the area.

      They don’t tell you it was 7 and 8 year old kids from Paisley who were the beneficiaries of the great employment.

      As I said, you were lucky if you saw your 30th birthday in Paisley working for this cowboy Clark .

      And it was the same story all over the UK, get the slaves in America to provide the raw material and get the kids (cheap labour) to do the donkey work in which ever town you stayed in.

      Education, what education?

      From cradle to grave, these mill and mine owners literally worked you to death.

      So they could live like Gods.

    96. jfngw says:


      So it is hypocrisy then, I didn’t ask about alignment, I asked about governance. You want independence from the EU but Scotland in a Union and governed effectively by another country with less power than it would have by being an independent country in the EU.

      Although I do agree that Scots in general are not as left wing as some on this site believe. Also Nigel Farage does not have any of the attributes you claim we need, a boorish oaf is hardly what the Scots want as has been demonstrated repeatedly in the polls, his normal outcome is lost deposit.

      A straight talking family man – David Mundell?

    97. Capella says:

      Apos – the first Coates was James, weaver. He lived in the “Wa” in Paisley. His wife was an embroiderer called tambourer as she wove scarves on a round frame – a tambour. James took them down to London and sold them. While there he picked up a Chinese textile. When he got home he and his friend Patrick sat up late unpicking the cloth to see how it was woven. He then produced the Paisley weave.

      I researched this once for a project.

      Whenever one part of the process was mechanised through an invention, the spinning, weaving, transportation etc a bottle neck was produced so another invention had to be developed.

      The slaves used to sort through the cotton at night in the fields. But they were tired and slow. Eventually the spinning and weaving was so speeded up that someone invented the cotton gin to speed up the cleaning of the cotton.

      MacAdam invented tarred roads to speed up transporting the cotton thread and textiles to Glasgow for export.

    98. Capella says:

      @ Brian Sinclair – you could be right. I know of them from Edinburgh. Tongs Ya Bass scrawled cross walls and bridges. I think they maybe resided in Burdiehouse or Pilton/Drylaw. Charming wee monkeys.

      They disappeared, probably for the same reason that the New York gangs Sharks and Jets disappeared. Heroin.

    99. robbo says:

      Talking of Farage. Where he is right now.

    100. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. the (ongoing) disappearance of gang culture. This hasn’t come about through accident, and is strongly influenced by the “discursive” turn in social science. This enabled the development of a more holistic understanding of what makes humans and society tick, thereby enabling more psychologically sensitive and effective town planning, policing, social work, etc….

      The Notion of Place, Place Meaning and Identity in
      Urban Regeneration

    101. CameronB Brodie says:

      This is the sort of knowledge I was trained to incorporate into policy and plans, in case anyone is interested.

      Urban Disorder and Gangs
      A Critique and a Warning

    102. Vinny says:

      Cameron 9.28

      I would say it was the humble mobile phone that discouraged gang fighting in housing estates.

      Years ago you were annonomous, nobody could prove it was you who done a or b.

      Nowadays everything is videod and recorded.

      Youngsters just used their savvy because they found video evidence was used in courts,

      So fighting in general has died out.

      Although not completely.

    103. Name (required) says:

      you are lost

      it is over unless you remove your arse from from your finger…
      go figure

      cunts the lot of you

    104. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s a very good point and I can’t deny mobile phones have helped discourage social disorder. There has been a concerted effort made to improve the institutional understanding of society though, which has helped shape more practical and effective policy measures. Ultimately, this has all been despite the neo-liberal approach to government that has been followed pretty much globally, for the last four decades or so.

    105. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s me showing my political bias. Neo-liberalism has improved government in many ways, but at considerable social cost (see austerity and a hollowed-out health system, for example).

    106. call me dave says:

      Hmmm! Bit of a pattern here. Nothing to worry about ‘probably’

      Coronavirus: 75 at Anglesey chicken plant staff positive

      Leicester ramps up Covid-19 testing after cases rise

      Coronavirus: Almost 100 staff at food factories test positive

      Coronavirus: Concerns over Covid-19 cases in NI meat plants

    107. robertknight says:

      Name (required) @ whenever…

      Thanks for your input!

      PS The greatest trick the Murrells ever pulled was convincing the SNP they wanted Indy. Go chew on that!

    108. robbo says:

      If this thing gets into the food chain in some way we’ll be eating the same as cows and sheep soon. Bloody hate grass tae gad horrible stuff.

    109. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The whole ‘Track and Trace’ stuff…

      If I suddenly find that I can’t taste or smell properly, it could be The Bug.

      So, being a responsible citizen an aw that, I ask to get a test.

      There’s every chance that I’ve already had the fuckin thing at some point since the turn of the year and I just thought it was a cold or suchlike, so – being reasonably healthy and not over 80 yrs old – my test will show as positive.

      I’m then asked, as part of the Test & Protect scheme to tell the ‘contact tracers’ who I’ve been in touch with lately.

      I say, ‘Oooh, well, I’ve bumped into quite a lot of acquaintances since I had that cold back in February!’, and I then name Rev Stu, Cameron Brodie, jnfgw, Tinto Chiel, Bob Mack, Capella, Lochside and a whole stack of other Wingers who I haven’t been anywhere close to in my entire life.

      Which would then lead to ‘you’ all getting a call, or a ‘ping!’ on your phone, informing you that you’ve been close to a confirmed bug-bearer. And you then have to self-isolate for a fortnight or whatever. (Think they can’t trace you because you use a ‘handle’ to comment here? Dream on!)

      And get this – you would never EVER know I’d landed you in it. Why? Because the Scottish Govt *guarantees* anonymity for all concerned.

      So there ye go – it’s alright then?!?


    110. robbo says:

      We don’t have track and trace Ian.

      If you had corona you would have picked it up in last 14 days or so or you are asymptomatic person and are a carrier.You would then get antibody test to see if you’ve had in the past ,like Feb and your immune system beat it.

    111. robbo says:

      Track and trace as in the phone app I mean

    112. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      And there was me thinking were were on the way to being buddies. 🙂

    113. CameronB Brodie says:

      sorry….we were

    114. Vinny says:

      Since about 7pm tonight BBC Scotland have broadcast English football into our homes.

      I am not Interested in watching foreign football matches.

      And the thing that I really object to is being threatened with being sent to prison if I don’t help pay for these football matches to be broadcast into my home.

      And why didn’t the BBC give everyone a licence fee holiday in these times of extreme hardship.

      Some families will have to decide to either pay their BBC licence fee or buy food for to their family.

    115. jfngw says:

      @Ian B

      Is this a list of those you have grievance with as very few are even aware that I exist. the j is for Jim by the way. Although you are going to have a hard time explaining why you were in Bath during a lockdown (Zoom doesn’t count as contact).

    116. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @jnfgw (Jim) –

      I’ve no serious beef with anyone here – that ‘list’ is just the first few WOS-related ‘handles’ that popped into my heid.

    117. crazycat says:

      @ Ian B at 7.26

      From time to time, my mother told me things about her family which turned out to be wrong (for instance, she repeatedly said that her father had been born in Aberdeen, but when I finally saw his birth certificate, he was actually born in Inverness, where he was still living when a census was taken a year later).

      So this might not be true either, but she claimed that her mother had been Kenneth Clark’s nursery nurse for a while. Whether that’s the same as a “devoted nanny”, I have no idea – my not very thorough attempts to check the original claim didn’t get anywhere.

    118. jfngw says:

      @Ian B

      It’s alright, don’t take anything I write too seriously tonight, I’ve been on the wine.

    119. call me dave says:

      ‘UK’ Health Secretary and Labour council knew about mass covid outbreak in Yorkshire factory 10 days before locals found out

    120. robbo says:

      Well looking at this Corona fest in Tulsa it looks half full to me ,so maybe 10000 of the 19,199 capacity.

      So much a million people applied to come to it. Usual horseshit FAKE NEWS fae trumper.
      Where’s Joe?

    121. Beaker says:

      Terrible incident in Reading this evening. Latest it appears to be terror-related and unconfirmed reports say the attacker, who is under arrest, is Libyan.

      There’s a whole bunch of pricks posting videos on Twitter. FFS. 3 dead and several injured, but hey, let’s get some views.

    122. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @jnfgw –


      I wonder how many of us aren’t these days!


    123. Gary45% says:

      I remember a teacher at the start of probably 2nd year, addressing
      the class. “Right, I don’t want to see Wullie love Mary or Jimmy loves Carol, and I especially don’t want to see Tongs Ya Bass written on any of these books”
      Strange how some things stick in the “nugget” after 45 ish years.
      Happy Daze.

    124. call me dave says:


      Yes terrible incident. I’ve been listening to radio 5, the Nolan programme.

      Had a witness relating what he saw. He seemed in a pretty shaky state when speaking.

      Still at it now discussion on and going to replay it in a minute for the not squeamish.

    125. robbo says:

      Lmao Trump had an overflow area built to take 40,000 with big screens the lot,no one there lol. Now tweeting for people to come on down,lots of room.
      Don’t know how he’s gonna spin this one and get out of it. Houdini couldnae get oot o this wan.

    126. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @crazycat (11.24) –


      I find these characters fascinating, especially when they rub up against ‘ordinary’ folk.

      True enough that we just can’t see ourselves how others see us. If enough of us could, even fleetingly, the entitled idlers would’ve been hoofed decades ago.

    127. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Capella at 9:05 pm.

      You typed,
      MacAdam invented tarred roads to speed up transporting the cotton thread and textiles to Glasgow for export.

      He didn’t actually.

      From the two links below…

      Macadam is a type of road construction, pioneered by Scottish engineer John Loudon McAdam around 1820, in which single-sized crushed stone layers of small angular stones are placed in shallow lifts and compacted thoroughly.
      A binding layer of stone dust (crushed stone from the original material) may form; it may also, after rolling, be covered with a binder to keep dust and stones together. The method simplified what had been considered state of the art at that point.

      Tarmacadam is a road surfacing material made by combining macadam surfaces, tar, and sand, patented by Welsh inventor Edgar Purnell Hooley in 1902.

      Pioneered by Scottish engineer John Loudon McAdam in the 1820s, macadam roads are prone to rutting and generating dust.
      Methods to stabilize macadam surfaces with tar date back to at least 1834 when John Henry Cassell, operating from Cassell’s Patent Lava Stone Works in Millwall, patented “lava stone”.[1]
      This method involved spreading tar on the subgrade, placing a typical macadam layer, and finally sealing the macadam with a mixture of tar and sand.
      Tar-grouted macadam was in use well before 1900, and involved scarifying the surface of an existing macadam pavement, spreading tar, and re-compacting.
      Although the use of tar in road construction was known in the 19th century, it was little used and was not introduced on a large scale until the motorcar arrived on the scene in the early 20th century.

      I know, I had my pedantic hat on…


    128. John D says:

      @Vinny 11:10pm
      Buddy , I did say we’re served according to rank . I assume you’re a Scot.

    129. Willie says:

      Ah another Great British success story as the much vaunted Track and Trace app bites the dust.

      Seems that after delay after delay the Isle of Wight trial revealed that the app only picked up 4% of phones using Ios software and 75% using Android software.

      But maybe no bad thing that it failed because the security concerns about the UK Government ministers requirements for all phone data to be held centrally, recording and logging for posterity and future analysis the details of time and place of every phone, it’s unique ID, the post code location of its owner, together with details of all other phones that came into proximity with
      and for how long, is truly scary stuff.

      Just look at how the UK Government is now tying together tax records, health records, social security records, car ownership records, house ownership records, bank accounts, passports, driving licences, and then look at the track and trace of cars across the country through the APNR camera system that records billions of car movements, how facial recognition from ubiquitous but increasingly interconnected CCTV is being used, how electronic payments are used as a date stamp of time and location, how internet use is data mined by folks like Cambridge Analytica and you realise what a totalitarian state we have become.

      With folks like Dominic Cummings, but with many more like him in the background, we truly all are prisoners now. The people who control this data, who have access to it are the masters. Not us. We can never leave.

      But maybe I digress. Maybe we don’t care. Like the Jews or the other politically unworthy in 1930s Germany maybe we are headed for the same fate.

      And out of Europe it will only get worse.

    130. Capella says:

      @ BDTT – I know. I read that wiki article some time ago and was outraged that a major factoid from my education was being questioned! But, in fact, after I wrote the above I wondered if it was actually Telford who built the high road to Plantation Quay.
      Haven’t looked it up yet.
      This blended learning is 24/7 on WoS.

    131. Capella says:

      @ BDTT again – A quick read of Telford’s wiki page suggests it might have been he who improved the road to Glasgow. Though he spent a great deal of his adult working life in England building roads, bridges and canals he also set about a major improvement of Highland communications and also in the lowlands. A clever chap.

    132. Vinny says:

      Following on from BBC Scotland using their full Saturday night peak time viewing to show us football matches from a foreign country, we awake this morning to even more foreign football matches being beamed into our homes.

      And if you refuse to pay for this service they will send you to jail.

      What other country anywhere else in the world would you be threatened with such brutal laws regarding a TV license.

      Being forced to pay for foreign football, foreign news, foreign culture is surely breaking some kind of Human Rights Laws.

      Have our Scottish government lost it’s tongue?

    133. Sinky says:

      Guess which Sunday Paper front page BBC Radio Scotland failed to mention this morning at 9.10 am.

      Eventually they did at 9.20 am

    134. susan says:

      Posted this on previous thread but I’ll repeat. I’m scunnered with the SNP and unless I receive confirmation from my MSP that he will NOT support all this science-denying gender shit, I will be spoiling my first vote. It breaks my heart but this nonsense must be stopped in its tracks, the SNP cleared of entryists and independence pit firmly at the forefront of policy.

    135. HYUFD says:

      Sunny Actually still only 50% Yes including Don’t Knows, so still not a majority

    136. Bruce would have used the Julian calendar for the date of the battle of Bannockburn,

      can`t seem to find an exact date that Bruce would have used (July 2-5)

      and is the longest/lightest day the same day as midsummer`s day.

    137. Tartan Bolshie says:

      This appeared on Friday: Former First Minister Complaints FOI Release.

      Doesn’t seem to reveal much, which may reveal something!

    138. ahundredthidiot says:

      oh ffs, robbo at 11:50

      I don’t know what’s funnier, you ignoring the 4 million people who watched the live stream of Trump – or your attempt at sounding Scottish!

      At a guess…….I am going to go with Yorkshire.

      ye must think we’re awe stupit

    139. Dan says:


      Ooh! There’s Been A(nother) Surge…

      If we get many more surges we’re gonna need zinc tablets! 😉

      I’d prefer less surges but a definite urge to actually develop a way to express and progress this situation.

    140. Vinny says:

      Sinky 9.20

      Reading your National link.

      And they seem to go heavy on why Scottish Labour voters are ignoring their leader’s advice and starting to fancy the idea of Scotland becoming an Independent Nation.

      We do have to admit that appointing an southern clown as leader of Scottish Labour was a bit of a God send.

      I mean any Scot hearing an englishman telling them they will not have their referendum is bound to enrage said Scot and increase support for Independence.

      And as for Scottish Labour’s deputy leader Jackie Baillie, and her half english half kelvinside accent, that is enough to drive any mild mannered Scot to vote for Independence.

      Leonard and Baillie, if that is the best Scottish Labour can come up with, then they are in deeper trouble than I thought they were.

    141. Dan says:

      Don’t recall seeing this from a couple of days back has been posted previously.

    142. Bill McLean says:

      HYUFD – how worried you must to follow polling on Scottish indpendence. Let me assure you of one thing – the longer this useless, dishonest, Tory Goverment at Westminster goes on the more certain independence becomes. My respect and sympathies to voters England but you get what you vote for! Don’t worry too much! When we are independent we won’t insult you, demonize you or even look down on you no matter what the rest of the world thinks. We may even share some of the oil revenue – something that would never cross the minds of the Empire builders at Westminster. I really wish you’d go away – you contribute nothing but your narrow minded British nationalism, which is next to no contribution at all!

    143. Bob Mack says:


      We will take our chances. Will you?

    144. Ottomanboi says:

      A poll indicates 54% of us would vote Ay in an indie ref.
      If the British state refused to allow a referendum should we go ahead anyway?
      If the British state refused to accept a possible yes result should we declare independence?
      Which matters more independence or a friendly relationship with the London political establishment whose aim is the preservation of the status quo.
      In other words how much are pro independence Scots prepared to risk in obtaining it.
      Ay, there’s the rub!

    145. Vinny says:


      I see Brewer never mentioned the National newspaper Poll on Indy.

    146. Gary45% says:

      Allegedly Trump reported 14 million people in Scotland watched his rally on live stream. When told there were just over 5 million people living in Scotland, he screamed “Fake News” and still insisted 14 million, and his inbred, redneck, gullible followers cheered at him in support.

    147. Capella says:

      @ Tartan Bolshie 9.29 – those FOI requests are about meetings between Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, who else was there and were minutes kept. I haven’t read the responses yet so don’t know yet who asked for the information. However, the Tories think they can force Nicola Sturgeon out of office for breaking the ministerial code. They had expected to do it by April but coronavirus got in their way.

      Some people want to get rid of Nicola Sturgeon for helping Alex Salmond while others want rid of her for not helping Alex Salmond.

    148. Vinny says:

      So the vast majority want rid of Sturgeon.

      Well why doesn’t she do the democratic thing and just go.

      Or is she want to go down in history known as a dictator?

    149. Capella says:

      So the vast majority want rid of Sturgeon
      Maths not your strong point? Or comprehension?

    150. Stoker says:

      Capella wrote on 21 June, 2020 at 11:23 am

      So the vast majority want rid of Sturgeon
      Maths not your strong point? Or comprehension?”

      What’s that based on?

    151. Republicofscotland says:

      What I take from this new Panelbase poll, and I’m sure others do to, is that independence in now constantly looking above the 50% mark.

      This should be seen as a marker by Sturgeon to use next years Scottish elections as a independence referendum, for it is very unlikely that Johnson will agree to a S30 order.

      Of course the real crux of the matter isn’t Johnson, its Sturgeon she’s reluctant to pursue any other avenue than that of the gold standard, (if she wants independence at all),due to that being the route to international recognition.

      However it’s Catch 22 of sorts, Johnson won’t agree to a S30 Order, so that route is blocked, to use next years elections as a independence referendum, on victory that route is blocked be cause Sturgeon, and the international community won’t see it as a good standard referendum.

      So what are our options, we could wait until Johnson is ousted from 10 Downing Street, which could be at least another five years, and whose to say the new incumbent won’t carry on where Johnson left off and deny the S30 Order. Or we could attempt to curry favour with an already sympathetic EU, and other nations, to see next years elections if independence supporting parties carry the day as a independence referendum.

      I see no other routes that aren’t fraught with potholes, the next best route I think would be declaring UDI, and that has its own difficulties, though I’m not against it, as I’d imagine the problems it would create could be overcome in a short period of time, if there’s no outside interference that is.

      Any other plausable suggestions to independence are welcome, let’s hear them please.

    152. Capella says:

      @ Stoker –
      Vinny says:
      21 June, 2020 at 11:18 am
      So the vast majority want rid of Sturgeon.

      Well why doesn’t she do the democratic thing and just go.

      Or is she want to go down in history known as a dictator?

    153. Joe says:

      @Bill Mclean

      ‘My respect and sympathies to voters England but you get what you vote for! Don’t worry too much! When we are independent we won’t insult you, demonize you or even look down on you no matter what the rest of the world thinks.’

      That’s total bullshit. The Indy movement is riddled with characters who take every chance to belittle English folk, to blame for crimes of their ruling class, to denigrate and insult.

      A perfect example is Brexit – plenty of you think the English are bigots, racists and near-fascist for having the balls that Scottish people didn’t have, and never will have, by voting in their countries interest despite the pressure on them to conform.

      Ive seen plenty of examples even on this site, which tends to have the least foaming-at-the-mouth, censorship-for-all group of commenters that the English are going to demographically destroy Scotlands chances of independence.

      Well lets not get ahead of ourselves. By the looks of it we Scots are perfectly capable of turning a massive move towards independence, coupled with numerous massive open chances to push for it and turn it instead into a state the looks the embryo of some kind of eastern bloc shithole.

      ‘That was the SNP’. Yes, that is correct. Which you all continued fucking voting for like the braindead sheep that you are – and STILL are doing. Whats that? You are ‘lending’ them your vote. Oh well that’s alright then.

      But lets not get too far ahead of ourselves. The truly repulsive hypocrites in the movement probably aren’t even that interested in independence as they are basically dumb first world ‘communists’ or ‘socialists’, or as they are now called ‘progressives’who come with all the baggage, all the cluelessness and all the innate spite of the breed cloaked with the words of equity, virtue and with big idea’s for everyone else.

      Ive got more in common with the ordinary English folk than the fannies who make up the bulk of the Scottish indy movement but im more a nationalist than the bulk of people on this comments board.

      If Scots don’t start showing some more brains and a little less fucking wishful thinking and rhetoric I can absolutely guarantee it will be English folk looking at us and thanking god they arent Scottish.

      Over the last few days on the US side of my political interests I have seen a number of totally unrelated people giving Scotland as an example of the kind of insane, out of control leftist bullshit that gives people with any discernment or knowledge of history a shudder down their spine.

      Get fucking real.

      Cheers to the English and their great country. Might be living there soon if Scots don’t develop a few more brain cells.

    154. CameronB Brodie says:

      Why am I confident the SNP needs to change their legal advisers? The current lot don’t appear to have any appreciation of international law, or the semiotics of law, so are incapable of defending Scotland’ identity and the natural rights of those living in Scotland. The SNP needs a new legal perspective if it hopes to serve Scotland.

      Biology, Semiosis, and Cultural Difference in Lotman’s Semiosphere's_Semiosphere

    155. Bob Mack says:


      Bullsh@t. England is the land of tradition don’t you know.

      Hate Johnny foreigner. Keen to break ties with anybody that doesn’t tolerate their ancient parochial foibles Ie Brexit.Windrush. Farages posters on vans and the rise of UKIP, forcing the Tories to be even more militant to keep the voters.

      They are stuck in a time warp of imagining that this( England) was always great.They do not want to change nor see the need for anything better.

      England? You keep it. I want something better.

    156. ahundredthidiot says:

      gary45% @ 11:08

      ‘Allegedly Trump reported 14 million people in Scotland watched his rally on live stream’

      I wouldn’t know – I personally don’t watch his rallies, at best maybe catch a shortened version on YT – but I’d be interested to see that if you have a link that I can assess and cross-reference?

      Key word you use though, is allegedly……….maybe deep down you realise you might be suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome. There’s a lot of that going around.

    157. Fireproofjim says:

      Dear, dear, Joe. You’ve really lost it today.
      Very few INDE supporters dislike the English. Like me they mostly have good English friends.
      The English in England have been fed a non stop diet of Scotland being subsidised by England and most of them believe it. They are mostly misinformed and not malicious.
      The main enemy of Scotland is the ultra-loyalist, Orange Order and their knuckle dragging followers.

    158. Stoker says:

      @ Capella on 21 June, 2020 at 11:33 am:

      I meant your response, what do you mean about “maths not your strong point”?

    159. Vinny says:


      Others on here have pointed out how unpopular Sturgeon is.

      Why did you single out my particular quote?

      Are you another Wings bully?

      Have you a selective reading disorder?

    160. Beaker says:

      The attack in Reading now being treated as a terrorist incident. Strangely enough, all the dickheads calling for the police to be “defunded” have gone quiet.

    161. Joseph says:

      Good to see support for Independence on the rise, but we really need to kick on from here.

      Our politicians need to be talking about it on a daily basis now.

    162. John Jones says:

      National head lines,
      How Scotland could be a green world leader if we vote for Indy in 2024.
      What happened to all the votes for Indy up till now?
      56 MPs but still nothing,local councils overwhelmingly SNP!
      We need to get ourselves up and form a party that will at least try.

    163. HYUFD says:

      Bill McLean The Tories won the 2019 general election on a manifesto commitment to no indyref2 for a generation respecting the 2014 No vote. Sturgeon has correctly accepted that there will be no indyref2 or attempts to push independence without Westminster agreement,so it would take a Starmer premiership in 2024 at the earliest for indyref2 to happen

    164. Bob Mack says:


      To be fair to Capella Nicola Sturgeon is currently receiving high percentages of approval across Scotland. Recent polls have her at 82% or thereabouts.

      Your thinking of SNP Indy supporters where her popularity may be less clear cut.

    165. Vinny says:


      Three kids died in a horrific house fire in Paisley the other night (cause unknown) but you seem more concerned with deaths that happened in a foreign country.

      There are all sorts of murders committed all over the world every day of the week, why should we be over concerned with what happened in the foreign country of england?

    166. Vinny says:

      Bob Mack

      When I want any input from you I will ask you, so until then …

      Is this the famous Wings pack of wolfs gathering?

      A bit early on a Sunday morning for a full blown barny is it not?

    167. Vinny says:

      Bob Mack
      Who else is going to join in the attack on a single poster who happens to have a different opinion to those of the Sturgeon Ra Ra Club?

      What a pathetic shower.

    168. CameronB Brodie says:

      I see HYUFD is incapable of respecting authentic history and appears to imagine constitutional law is a tool of power, rather than a means of social protection. Well, he is a Toryboy who supports English Torydum.

      Homo polyglottus: Semiosphere as a model of human cognition

      The semiosphere is arguably the most influential concept developed byJuri Lotman, which has been reinterpreted in a variety of ways. This paper returns to Lotman’s original “anthropocentric” understanding of semiosphere as a collective intellect/consciousness and revisits the main arguments of Lotman’s discussion of human vs. nonhuman semiosis in order to position it in the modern context of cognitive semiotics and the question of human uniqueness in particular.

      In contrast to the majority of works that focus on symbolic consciousness and multimodal communication as specifically human traits, Lotman accentuates polyglottism and dialogicity as the unique features of human culture. Formulated in this manner, the concept of semiosphere is used as a conceptual framework for the study of human cognition as well as human cognitive evolution.

      semiosphere; cognition; polyglottism; dialogue; multimodality; Juri Lotman

    169. Bob Mack says:


      Here’s an interesting little fact.Over the past 30 years around 1760 people have died in police custody. In al! those
      scenarios only one officer was convicted ,but received a suspended sentence. Only one.

      I don’t want to defund the police, but I want them to be answerable for those occasions where things are brushed under the carpet of authority.

    170. Bob Mack says:


      I probably wouldn’t be interested anyway. I know too many facts to be taken in by the likes of yourself. Bye bye.

    171. Bob Mack says:



    172. Stoker says:

      @ John Jones on 21 June, 2020 at 12:08 pm

      Thanks for that! You don’t make it clear but i’m going to assume you are referring to headlines in ‘The National’?

      The National has been pumping the ‘delay indy line’ for some time now. They did it when Yes was supposed to be only at 51%, they did it when indy was supposed to be only at 52% and now that indy is supposed to be only at 54% they’re at it again.

      As i’ve said before i don’t trust The National one bit. If it truly is an indy supporter then it has a form of “support” i’ve no time for. Progressive really is just a term that means make it up as you go along.

      I’ll continue to believe support, in Scotland, for indy is higher than that by at least another 2 or 3 percent, at least. And i may just start taking The National a bit more seriously when they give regular columns to folk such as Stuart Campbell, writers/journos i prefer to read.

    173. Dogbiscuit says:

      Why would anyone in their right mind wish to be tracked and traced? It’s weird.

    174. Dogbiscuit says:

      82% is a suspiciously Stalinist number.

    175. Beaker says:

      @Bob Mack says:
      21 June, 2020 at 12:24 pm
      “I don’t want to defund the police, but I want them to be answerable for those occasions where things are brushed under the carpet of authority.”

      I totally agree. The police are like any other organisation, with those who bring it into disrepute. The problem with covering up a problem, in the hope of preventing damage to reputation, is that by doing so makes things even worse. Like taking a drive to test your eyesight…

      And I bet Sadiq Khan wished he’d never made that broadcast yesterday. Not his fault, but rather unfortunate timing.

    176. Breeks says:

      Pete Wishart’s blog should come with a health warning for those of us with high blood pressure or volatile disposition.

      “Of course UDI might be the furthest thing from the mind of the ‘plan B-ers’; again we don’t know, because they haven’t told us….”… says the SNP who strung us all along for years on the “do nothing, just wait and see the details of Brexit” horse shit, and STILL can’t tell us how they propose to negotiate a Section 30 Agreement.

      I can’t write more. It’s too bleak and depressing and so thoroughly exasperating. The only thing Pete Wishart’s blog is good for is printing off in hard copy, rolling it up, and skelpin’ him aboot the lug with. Don’t worry, it’s too lightweight to actually hurt or do him any damage.

      His opening remark that “Plan B is back“ is straight trolling from under the bridge, because the SNP made sure Plan B couldn’t get a hearing in the first place.

      It’s for totally different reasons, but I’m beginning to hate the SNP as much as I hate Tories. (And don’t even open your trap Labour or the Willie Rennie Brigade).

      “ The unionists know that they can no longer beat us.” …. Do they aye? That’s sounds almost as convincing as “Scotland won’t be dragged out of Europe against it’s will”.

    177. Gary45% says:

      Yes, totally made up, obviously you missed the point, 14 mill when only 5 mill exist!! Getting Trump to say it at a rally,just to prove their stupidity in believing his lies.I would guarantee that would be the outcome.
      I think you mean “Deranged Trump Syndrome”

    178. Stoker says:

      @ Joe on 21 June, 2020 at 11:35 am:

      Good post Joe, i agree with you on most of it. Well said! Bravo!

    179. Beaker says:

      @Vinny says:
      21 June, 2020 at 12:15 pm
      “Three kids died in a horrific house fire in Paisley the other night (cause unknown) but you seem more concerned with deaths that happened in a foreign country.”

      I’m very fucking aware of what happened. I raised the point about Reading because of the political angle, and if I rightly remember Wings is a political site.

      Perhaps you need to try with words of one syllable and work your way up. I can give you two for starters.

    180. robbo says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      21 June, 2020 at 9:35 am
      oh ffs, robbo at 11:50

      Awa ya rocket yi.

      It wis an epic fail.He made an arse o himself,fine yi ken.

    181. Vinny says:

      Bob Mack

      You are absolutely correct to pull me for the wolves typo

      I shall now be watching every word you type from now on

      That’s what happens when you try to proclaim yourself as being perfect.


      I’ll let you fill in the blanks

    182. Vinny says:


      Your concern for all things english is suspicious

      Especially on a site such as Wings over Scotland

    183. Bob Mack says:


      Is the incomplete word___Vinny?

    184. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tbh, I’m becoming more and more concerned by Joe’s attitude and manner of expression.

      Connecting the dots: social semiotics and social representations theory.

    185. Stoker says:

      Ottomanboi wrote on 21 June, 2020 at 10:51 am:

      “A poll indicates 54% of us would vote Aye in an indie ref. If the British state refused to allow a referendum should we go ahead anyway?…”

      Folks, especially those lurkers who are new to this WOS site, that right there is extremely deceiving.

      Scotland does not need permission from *anyone* on whether we have a referendum or not. That is a fact and anyone trying to make you think differently is, at best, ignorant of the facts or, at worst, is downright lying to you.

      Scotland can have as many referendums as we like but in having a referendum to decide our future then having London accepting the result is of the utmost importance, or it could all turn disastrous & nasty, that is why an S30 is important. But we certainly do not need anyone’s permission to hold referendums.

      NOTE: There are also other ways to seek our independence that do not require a referendum, as per 2014 when we did have to have London’s S30 agreement to accept the result.

      Make no mistake, 2014 was a one-off. The *only* reason London agreed back then was because they didn’t reckon on support for indy being as big as it was. London will never agree to an S30 again and there’s not a thing can be done about it and Sturgeon knows this. London only needs to keep saying no.

      Sturgeon chooses to go down the S30 route for some unfathomable reasons but the only thing this achieves is keeping her in power running a glorified county council that Westminster can abolish overnight if they so wished.

    186. Bill McLean says:

      Joe – go to hell. I’m only representing my feelings and the opinions of Scots I know, not taking it upon myself to represent anyone other than me and those whose opinions I know. I live in Birmingham and know that most English people are the same as we are.I know very few, if any Scots, who “look down on the English, insult them or demonize them”. I think you struggle with the cringe Joe and i’m sure certain Engliahs people will be glad to have you on their side and I’ll say it again – take your ignorance and go to hell!
      HYUFD – you continue to be pointless!

    187. Capella says:

      @ Stoker – I was responding to Vinny’s reframing of my comment. I said Some people want to get rid of Nicola Sturgeon for helping Alex Salmond while others want rid of her for not helping Alex Salmond.

      Vinny then reframed that as So the vast majority want rid of Sturgeon. – which is completely illogical. Either Vinny doesn’t understand the meaning of the word “some” or Vinny has no grasp of quanity.

      I wasn’t gong to say anything at all because, as has now been amply demonstrated, “some” people are just here to divert degrade and derail. That doesn’t mean that the vast majority are. 🙂
      I won’t bother making any further response.

    188. ahundredthidiot says:

      Instead of ripping up their own streets, why aren’t those crazy commie bastards over at BLM attacking Buck House and bringing down Royalty?

      Pretty sure they created the environment that led to transatlantic slave trading by giving Royal Ascent to Parliament for the System of the Day – making it legal and commercially viable.

      They could even take down the house of lords while they’re at it.

      If anything exists from those dark days, it is those two institutions.

      Once that’s done, crack open the rubber bullets and let the attack dogs off the leash.

    189. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s a rather unhealthy narrative you have there, though I’m not surprised, frankly.

    190. ahundredthidiot says:

      gary @ 12:49

      (deliberately omitting your reminder of our defeat btw)

      Basically what you’re saying then is, you’re full of shit.

      enjoy your TDS – by the way, spoiler alert, he’s NOT your president. He is the Leader of a foreign country.

      I do confess that I take great enjoyment from watching Trump haters roll around in their own TDS filth – hilarious to watch! – almost as funny as the man himself.

      Damn – It’s good to have a Scotsman in the White-House!

    191. Gary45% says:

      Ask yourself, when was the last time the Impeached Orange Bunker Baby was described as “leader of the free world/most powerful person on the planet”, I think you’ll find he is everybody’s president, as the world leaders seem to be terrified of the USA. (Un-elected impeached leader of the free world).
      He does not, and never will speak for me. It will be funny when Biden kicks his erse in November.
      Over to you.

    192. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks (12.47) –

      The only thing Pete Wishart’s blog is good for is printing off in hard copy, rolling it up, and skelpin’ him aboot the lug with. Don’t worry, it’s too lightweight to actually hurt or do him any damage.

      He might notice if we rolled it really tightly and then stuck it right up his nose.


    193. Stoker says:

      @ Capella on 21 June, 2020 at 1:44 pm:

      Aye, whatever! Just to be clear, for those who can’t see it, my question was to you Capella and nothing to do with your spat with Vinny just in the same way as my liking for Joe’s post has nothing to do with his spat with Bill. I don’t need ‘hauners’ or believe in pile-ons against other indy supporters.

      But since you don’t want to explain and you want to avoid attempting to answer what i was getting at, and you do know, i will respect your decision to not want to comment further. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. 🙂

      Wee tip for the Indy masses on here. There’s been a helluva lot of misunderstanding/misreading of whatever on here for a variety of reasons and several Indy supporters have found themselves at the wrong end of a bite through no fault of their own. Slow down and read the article, comment or whatever again and again if need be before getting at someone.

    194. Bill McLean says:

      Stoker – I have no “spat” with Joe, or indeed anyone. Just feel that we are all entitled to an opinion. Joe lost it as evidenced by his abusive language, haranguing tone and an attempt to label me, and others, as racists. You are right people should “slow down and read the article”. Unfortunately there are those who post here who feel they don’t need to. Wonder why Joe is so angry?

    195. Stoker says:

      No worries, Bill, just making it clear that my liking for and agreeing with most of Joe’s post did not mean I was a part of the spat going on between yous.

      I mean, telling someone to go to hell isn’t exactly a fight but it does seem like a spat to me. Just did not want anyone, especially you, thinking i was taking sides against you by what i said about Joe’s post.

      BTW, Spat = Minor argument or mild bickering. 😉

      Take care! Goodnight, Troops! 🙂

    196. Bill McLean says:

      “Spat” or not Stoker i’m still interested in why Joe is so angry! I’ve been reading this blog since before the referendum and never seen it so divisive and nasty! There are some obvious trolls and some who believe their opinion is sacrosanct. We will never acheive our return to independence by being divided to the point that only one opinion is allowed – and our opponents know that is our greatest weakness!

    197. CameronB Brodie says:

      Bill McLean
      I might be a bit paranoid but I don’t believe my opinion is sacrosanct or infalible. I’ve just been trained how to profile political identities. through the interpretation of their discourse. I try to only be abusive to those I consider hostile to liberal democracy, and I feel it my duty to do so.

      Predicting Ideological Prejudice.

    198. CameronB Brodie says:

      Bill McLean
      Here’s a bit more of what I’m talking about, in case you are interested.

      The dual nature of partisan prejudice: Morality and identity in a multiparty system

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