Another problem solved
Posted on
May 21, 2020 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
When the news isn’t news:
Lots of Scottish newspapers (most notably everything in the Herald And Times Group) had already ducked out of providing ABC figures at all, but this will be a godsend for the rest to save their growing embarrassment.
Wings readers can remember the pitiful state of the last published figures here.
This sets a lovely precedent – “Sorry Boss, I can’t provide you with an update of how much work I did this week, as that would provide you with stimulus to write a negative productivity report.” Genius!!!!
Of course, our wonderful media NEVER write “negative narratives”about the SG, Scotland, SNP, any person or group who is not ‘unionist’, when they obtain data under FoI. Do they??????
i’m reminded of the old saw that we will never be free until the last lawyer is throttled with the entrails of the last priest. Perhaps we should include the last print journalist or editor in there as well.
Looking in my local co=op early morning the numbers of papers available to buy are about a quarter of what they used to be.
In the past the Record might have had 2/3 piles. Today one, and it was not full. Just a sample!
At some point you might think the editorial board might think a change of tack would be required. It is astonishing that the Boards of Directors are not driving the management team to provide a paper aligned to reader requirements.
So the unionist press has stopped publishing the figures of their ultimate demise. The figures must be really low which I find not surprising. I saw a chart recently that claimed the UK press is the least trusted in Europe.
An impartial press is important, but this lot can f+ck-off into obscurity for all I care good riddance to the lot of them.
They moved online fair enough, hopefully the day will come when I no longer catch a glimpse of shitrags such as the Daily Mail or Express in my local shop as I walk in the door.
Haven’t bought 1 newspaper since 2014. I passed this onto various bloggers and the purchase of alcohol to toast the demise of inept journalism in Scotland. Cant see my purchasing choices changing in the near future. Also cancelling my Sky subscription for being a total waste of money and spending it on a Golf holiday every year instead was another bonus.
Fake news indeed. The Unionist leaning papers are on the slippery slope to oblivion. Had it not been for Westminster grants, some may have already expired..
What is astonishing is that they still don’t realise why this is and continue to print utter nonsense and only speak for their very rich and right wing owners or for the green ink brigade.
Ok, so, as an advertiser, I’d be expected to either believe the publication’s circulation figures or, I’d be expected to pay for an ABC subscription?
Yeah, way to inspire confidence.
Lies, damned lies and ABC circulation figures.
“The most powerful form of lie is the omission”. Orwell
A free press ready to inform?
No, absolutely not. A press ready to suppress truth and openness to keep people in the dark. The decision to stop publishing figure says it all.
The MSM is a disgrace.
From @KateForbesMSP
‘We have already agreed a £3m package with the Scottish Newspaper Society, on top of the £440,000 package for local papers. That means Scottish papers only ones to get double support from UK & Scot Govs. Many ‘local papers’ already get 100% relief through the Small Business Bonus.’
Words fail me.
Surely these corpses must be kept twitching by some means of subsidy – they can’t be going concerns.
Where the cash is coming from and the manner of it’s transmission is of course a matter for conjecture.
Well said Willie.
“..ABC sales charts have been stopped permanently as they give stimulus to write a negative narrative of circulation decline.”
LOL! A very strange way of saying:
We write shite and our enemies are exposing us.
Going, going, not too long before they is gone!
Or, at least so irrelevant and inconsequential that they’ll be just another niche market.
Oh dear, never mind…moving on
Here’s a thought, apologies if someone has beat me to it but should they be allowed to do that given it is our taxes that now prop them up? Makes what the SNP are doing even more out of order.
Why don’t these struggling rags join forces and call their new newspaper “The Unionist”
And their struggling Political Party’s could do likewise and form just one political Party called “The Unionist Party”.
After all, we need some out of the box thinking in these troubled times.
And the way the SNP are heading, they could become the largest contributor to this new Unionist Party.
This is the latest ploy being used by a whole army of people thats being used to protect and cover up the mistakes of a dictatorial fascist out of touch government.
The hiding of falling Newspaper sales it is the same as the BBC hiding details of falling revenue from the Licence Tax ,along with the real recorded death rate ,
Everything this government does is designed to stop ordinary people seeing exactly what they are up too , governments hide things for a reason usually its not for your benefit.
These few things that are being highlighted are they just a distraction to avoid scrutiny of other stuff that this lot really want hidden , keep the mugs in the dark it makes them easier to manipulate is the plan .
Or another way to hide money from large unscrupulous investors perhaps?
A big bung of Scotland’s public money to the media, so the media can write stories saying Scotland’s people are subsidy junkies and scroungers.
That’ll give BBC Scotland ideas. Next step for the newspapers is to say that sales are up or starting to go up: no actual figures though, just take their word for it.
But, but…. I thought bad news sold newspapers, isn’t that what they used to say?
They’ve been loss leaders and propaganda pamphlets for their non domicile, tax dodging owners for a long time now.
Why is the SG subsidising it’s enemies..?
My No voting wife during Indyref one agreed with me on the media being biased and on the direction of bias. If you are a Unionist the unrelenting bile against your own country must get to you on some level causing you to recoil.
Even if NO Yes supporters ever bought a paper it would not explain this decline. It’s the lack of trust. Brexit happened because the UK papers delighted in firstly not reporting the EU properly and secondly in traducing it and laughing at it instead. The latter was easier and more fun so shit on properly informing people. It isn’t surprising that many are utterly ignorant about what the EU used to do for us.
I’ve met folk on the doortstep and elsewhere who think we got NOTHING back from the EU at all. That ignorance is very largely the fault of the press. They failed in terms of lying by omission and lying by caricature. And who was caricaturist in chief? One Boris Johnson.
Muscleguy @ 10,32am
I prefer the Tom Nairn quote: “Scotland will be free, when the last minister is strangled with the last copy of the Sunday Post.”
Tom is nearly 90 now, so, he might still see his prophesy come true.
Certainly the Sunday Post is but a shadow of what it once was, as are most of the other traditional Scottish Tory papers – be the be blue, red or yellow Tories.
Muscleguy
My memory of the old saw is that Scotland would be free when the last minister was choked with the last copy of the Sunday Post. Might soon be difficult to find a copy of the Post to do it with.
I can never understand how the tax dodging owners of the rotten rags are so stupid that they ignore or antagonise more than 50% of their potential readership.
DAisy Walker @ 11.31 am
Bad news might not sell newspapers, but, as we discovered on one of the Dailies on which I worked, writing bad news is definitely easier.
Our Editor decided we would print a “Good News Edition” one day. The crime reporter was in the midst of covering a gang war which had made our patch the murder capital of Scotland; the Court Reporter was snowed under with juicy grim stories and I as the Sports Department was covering a local senior team who even struggled to win a corner, far less a game.
It was really grim trying to find good news stories. Doom and gloom is far easier.
Davy Smith says:
21 May, 2020 at 11:31 am
Why is the SG subsidising it’s enemies..?
The Truth is Davy the SG are mere administrators of Devolution and the SNP ( with some notable exceptions ) Have become a Unionist party!
Strange times indeed!!
That surely sends a very bad message to advertisers. Henceforth the reach your ad gets will be what we tell you it gets, you can’t verify that.
Know what I’d do.
The Scottish Govt should stop providing FOI’s to journalists.
Let them see how transparency works then.
They’ll still have to provide the figures to the BBC who fund some of their hacks. The BBC and UKGov will want to see its getting value for its ‘investment’ – which they won’t be getting. Because fewer and fewer read their propaganda sheets. The point of diminishing returns has probably already come and gone and it won’t be too long now when they finally realise the game is up, that there is little point in funding propaganda sheets if very few are actually buying their propaganda. When they lie, twist and distort the truth, you cannot unsee that.
They brought it on themselves and hell slap it intae them.
Subsidising Unionist rags, asking for extra funding for the BBC, the disgusting, shameful way the have treated one of our greatest leaders, the attempted silencing of Pro independence bloggers and the in action of the largest mandates given to any political party, makes the current SNP SG betrayers!
Wake up and smell the coffee, The SNP have become the obstacle to Independence. They morphed into new labour once Alex reigned.
I see that thousands of people are starting to lose their jobs, and that the furlough scheme is basically just suspended unemployment. Whatever happened to we will easily bounce back and none of the damage was permanent. I also see that they are already starting to shift the goalposts again, apparently the second “wave” will arrive in winter because not enough people have had it this time around. mass house arrest could become a regular response to the winter flu outbreaks because it’s a “public health emergency”.
Nicola Sturgeon requested a Section 30 order from UKGov.
Johnson refused.
Yet some “The SNP have become the obstacle to Independence.”
Aye, very good.
We are not publishing our shameful circulation figures because people are laughing at us.
That’s it basically now if I were an advertiser I would be very wary of spending any money with newspapers.
Unionist newspapers spouting unionist propaganda at the direction of the very rich men who own the papers, not to make a profit but to gain influence.
The paper owners mostly don’t live and pay taxes here but they are happy to spout lies and propaganda again half of the population and they are surprised that no one is buying their rubbish.
Her Royal majesty’s government will ensure the survival of the papers as they need the propaganda to go out to the old and the daft who buy such titles as the Express and the Mail, other rubbish titles are of course available.
All I can say to the newspaper proprietors is Ha ha ha GIRFUY.
Proud Cybernat says:
21 May, 2020 at 12:05 pm
“Nicola Sturgeon requested a Section 30 order from UKGov.
Johnson refused.”
When exactly did this formal request occur?
Here’s a clue – IT DIDN’T HAPPEN.
Nor will it with the current SNP leadership.
Again SNP aiming their smoking gun at their feet.
We have zero number of newspapers in Scotland
with an unbiased view or one that represents the views
Of the majority.
I recall all 37 UK newspapers were against Scottish Independance
Although the polls at the time had it 50/50.
Non Dom Non UK tax payer owners.
Propaganda their main focus
Phone hackers
The truth, the hole for truth and nothing like the truth is published.
Where is the Tory chant of market forces rule and
People voting with their feet.
The public don’t want them as they are an embarrassment in the
Skewed garbage the print.
All that a reliable source close to who wishes to remain anonymous
let’s us print this pile of shite for just a few of your pennies.
I used to buy and read multiple newspapers but haven’t touched one in years.
There they go giving you transparency on the things that suit them when it suits their own agenda.
The Scotsman has more pages than readers and only exist thru Dark Money.
Proud Cybernat that is a good point.
If the Press sales Stats have to be for the BBC
Shouldn’t we be able to insist the National Broadcaster
that we pay for reveals the figures and how much revenue
We as tax payers are sending fascists non tax payers?
How others see it:
link to spiked-online.com
There is an element of ranting, Knoxian authoritarianism among many devotees of the Big Nannie, sadly so in tune with the febrile spirit of the times.
If you wish to destroy a cause you infiltrate it with crusading wokistas.
Scotland on double suppressive lockdown.
The last line of the linked article says:
“The newspapers opting to take their data private will be named on the ABC website at midday.”
So I just went and checked. Can’t find it on “abc.org.uk/recent-updates” – unless someone else can decipher the information….?
Is it there? If so, what’s the bet they ALL decide to hide the data!
They’re not dead, all you have to do is a google search for anything to see they are alive and well, no alternative news permitted.
I must’ve dreamt this then:
link to archive.is
@Proud Cybernat,
No doubt you wil! be told you’ve had a “Bobby Ewing” in the Dallas shower moment
Where’s the document in the ScotGov online archives?
Thats a newspaper report from a paper I don’t trust.
“Ron Maclean says:
21 May, 2020 at 11:07 am
From @KateForbesMSP
‘We have already agreed a £3m package with the Scottish Newspaper Society, on top of the £440,000 package for local papers. That means Scottish papers only ones to get double support from UK & Scot Govs. Many ‘local papers’ already get 100% relief through the Small Business Bonus.’
Words fail me.”
Yes indeed Ron, just why are the SNP to help fund unionist rags that put down independence at every turn.
Could it be they need these rags to help maintain the status quo? There’s an abundance of gatekeepers in Holyrood and the SNP.
“But following industry representations”. Forgive my ignorance, but too whom? And did that party really have the authority to agree it?
I’m with Stoker @11.20 on this. Can you imagine the furor if the SG tried a stunt like that on some of their regular statistic lines? No way.
Some parties need to have a little rethink. We pay the subsidy, we get to see the stats, nothing else will do in the interests of open government and integrity.
No one valuing or seeking meaningful analysis ever went near the Brit mass-media to access such a commodity.
That’ll be why Johnson responded to the FM’s formal request by refusing to agree. Maybe this paper is more to your liking:
link to archive.is
You are certainly entitled to your own opinion but you’re not entitled to your own facts. Claiming “IT DIDN’T HAPPEN” is a blatant untruth – unless you subscribe to the tinfoil hat fraternity.
SNP are idiots and or scum buckets for financing anti Scottish media propaganda with taxpayers money.They are taking the piss.Bogus Scottish journalists are the lowest form of human life.
No criminal action to be taken against Boris fir his
Criminal and intimate relationship with the American
Business woman Jennifer Acurie.
There’s a surprise, Not.
Never heard about the complaint against Boris for
Touching up two women sitting at the table with him.
His guilt in both is pretty obvious with his track record but
Quite quickly covered up.
When didn’t the use the Police let’s get Alex Salmond team
Who would happily spend two years trying to create evidence?
We are all in it together? Don’t think so.
Tories ‘this is not the time to play politics’, ‘we demand the health secretary resign’.
Ever since the 54% opinion poll and the comparative performance figures between NS and BJ the MSM has gone into hyperdrive. They have even launched their exocet mouth Ruth Davidson, brought out from the parenting bunker for the event.
So if it’s back to normal politicking it’s time to get independence back on the table, it should never have been removed.
Nicola Sturgeon is pissed in the wee bit of power she thinks she has.
All rather galling, that we, the scottish taxpayer are subsidising failing business,one’s that troll us on a daily basis.
Proud Cybernat 1.16pm
What do you suggest we do???
Just sit and wait for the man from Del Monte to say Yes???
Johnson has made it clear, Scotland will NOT be granted a Section 30 order.
Your move Cybernat.
Another one of Sturgeon’s Indy plans was that she would call indyRef2 once the Polls were showing a constant support of over 60% for three months in a row (it something like that)
That was when the Polls were stuck on 45%.
She knew that would NEVER happen.
Especially when she had no intention of Campaigning for it.
Infact, she had no intention of even mentioning the “I” word.
We have Scottish elections next year, we are falling out of the EU in six months,,,with no deal,,,and STILL Sturgeon refuses to even discuss Scottish Independence.
After that their is the real possibility Boris could shut down Holyrood.
So if now is not the time to at least discuss indyRef2, then I don’t know when is.
The truth is she isn’t interested in Scottish Independence.
Why oh why, do Scot Gov support these
@millenuim
We are already out of the EU all that is happening now is they are trying to negotiate a trading deal, it is merely a grace period. Not sure the UK gov actually is seeing some of the nonsense in their proposals. We can’t cancel it now, all they could do is ask to rejoin.
Of course the statement of ‘when we know the consequences of Brexit’ (or words to that effect) is a never-ending timescale as it coukd take years to work out what the consequences are.
Pete Wishart tweeted a while ago when a poll put SNP support up to 54% “We must be doing something right” on the surface a reasonable assumption, the problem is they’ve had to abandon their principles to win that extra support shitting on their core supporters in the process, the very people who put them where they are today.So independence is off the table, not because they don’t believe in it anymore, but because they’ve discovered something they like better….Power
It’s a battle between principle and power and for Pete Wishart and co it’s all about the power, fuck the principles, principles are hard work, they don’t have to keep their word to us they know they can bank on our vote because we have nobody else to vote for, it might be looking good for them now but that wont last.
Sooner or later the core supporters will look elsewhere and dwindle away and if they can’t find a party to represent them they’ll create one and the SNP will be finished, it wont happen overnight but it will happen
It’s happened before, Tony Blair did the same thing with the Labour party initially giving them spectacular success it even won them a General Election, but look at them now, power corrupts, and corruption will destroy the SNP just as it did with the Labour Party
Brexit is incompatible with human rights law and British constitutional practice is happy with that. That’s because Westminster is a racist patriarchy that rejects the international rule-of-law (see Brexit). The Scottish government is only allowed to operate with the parameters of this outdated legal order. Scotland needs better from the law.
Covid-19 hurts the vulnerable most. So does Brexit
link to blogs.lse.ac.uk
shug wrote on 21 May, 2020 at 10:37 am:
“At some point you might think the editorial board might think a change of tack would be required. It is astonishing that the Boards of Directors are not driving the management team to provide a paper aligned to reader requirements.”
They don’t need to, shug, they’re owned by billionaires with strong links to Westminster and for as long as they’re getting sweeteners/favours from their friends in the HoC &/or the HoL they will not give a rats erse if they lose one of their rags.
EG: Look just how easy it was for its owner to ditch the most popular rag going at the time ‘The News of the World’. He could have pulled in favours and kept it in circulation but no, he dumped it just like that without so much as batting an eyelid.
These rags are just nasty evil toys for their owners but they wreck a lot of lives. And when the mega-rich owners get fed up with their toys, like the proverbial spoilt brat, they neglect them then discard them without a care in the world. And already rich beyond belief they’re promised more riches & titles galore.
You don’t even need Johnsons “common sense” to work out when you start to hide fact and figures, they are obviously too pathetic and embarrassing.
Then again, Churnalism is the curse of society.
Hell mend them, I shed no tears.
Newspapers are on display using at the entrance of most shops. People come in and just pick them up to browse through them to kill some time as well as having a read of them but not paying for the privilege. As a result, they are a major source of infection.
As the current lock down gets gradually lifted and a bit of normality occurs, every one of us is going to have to look at our behaviours to ensure future outbreaks isn’t going to occur. One of these steps may be to temporarily stop the sale of newspapers and other types of publications or have them stored so people can’t go in to browse them.
Speaks volumes.
Paper sales fell when they got rid of page 3.
Talking about boobies, has Jackson Carlaw owned up yet to having the ‘fallin madonna with the big boobies ‘ yet?
The BBC is subsidised to blast propaganda into our homes.
The Newspaper industry is subsidised to blast propaganda headlines ( to be quoted by the BBC)
Advertising channels have programmes on “British” and product placement Union Flags everywhere.
You can’t shop in a supermarket without banks of Union Flags facing you.
Every Charity/ NGO is run by Unionists to promote the Union.
Every Year we are assaulted by another War event celebration.
If by any chance a gap opens on the propaganda front the Royal Family is ready to step in.
Stop buying Newspapers
Stop paying for the BBC
Do not remain in organisations like the National Trust for Scotland.
When shopping ” If it has a Jack, put it back”. Do not by the products of Unionist companies.
Make them feel the pain.
fngw quoted on 21 May, 2020 at 1:21 pm:
“Tories ‘this is not the time to play politics’, ‘we demand the health secretary resign’.”
I take it you are talking about the Scottish branch office? Well, drop in to their office and tell them personally that we demand *all* their London masters resign. For today they have finally admitted that they “chose” not to test in care homes and they now deeply regret making that decision. 😉
Has no one wondered why the Establishment newspaper proprietors are not worried about the profitability of their papers in Scotland?
It’s because they are playing a bigger game. Nothing less than the possession of our country.
Without Scotland in the Union, the Establishment is screwed. England may survive and thrive, but it will be new blood and commoners making the running in business.
Track and trace contact system delays possible unnamed cabinet ministers say.
Was due last week . Boris said yesterday 1st June now it’s soon.
Anyhoo!
Scotland………today…..37…….Total……2221…BBC
Wales…………today…..09…….Total……1247…BBC
N. Ireland…….today…..07…….Total…….501…BBC
England……….today…*187…….Total….*25266…SUN
=========================================================
UK……………today….338…….Total…..36042…BBC
Obviously WE must be winning.
Boris escapes an ARCURI investigation. I think, and hope, this will come back to haunt those responsible.
The SNP are fools if they think everyone’s vote is banked. If no other Independence Party to vote for I cannot vote for any party that locks its population up and thinks that’s OK. Our ‘health’ is being used as whitewash by Fascists.Simple.There is no party that did not hand our arses to the British Government without a debate or question in Westminster.Fuck them all. I don’t see the SNP as the way forward and as they were our political equivalent of a Heavy Brigade the Independence movement appears stopped in its tracks.
Scotland’s democratic rights don’t end with Johnson. Just because a husband refuses to agree to his wife’s demand for a divorce doesn’t mean she has lost the right to a divorce or that the divorce won’t happen. It simply means the husband is being a stubborn arse who can’t accept reality. He can refuse to agree to what’s happening around him but, ultimately, he will learn that he cannot hold his wife in a union that she wants no longer wishes to remain a part of. The divorce will happen but just in a slower, more protracted and probably antagonistic manner. But it WILL happen.
It’ll be the same with Indy and the FM has already hinted at taking matters down the legal route. And just as soon as the decks are cleared with N-CV19 and the full Brexit calamity has descended upon us, she will press the issue.
Fact is, no one can deny Nicola Sturgeon did not ask UKGov to agree to a 2nd IndyRef via S30 order. She most certainly did. And UKGov refused to agree to her request. So the issue of us not having an IndyRef at the moment is of Johnson’s making, not the FM’s. I personally think though that Johnson unwittingly did us a big favour with his refusing to agree to the FM’s request because had he agreed and the date was set, then it almost certainly would have to have been called off and deferred to another date because of the present circumstances. And UKGov might well have turned round and said “No – there will be no deferral. The date is fixed and we cannot change it. Use it or lose it.”
Were IndyRef2 to have gone ahead in such circumstances then a certain win for YES would have become a much tighter race.
My move?
My move is patience.
Prof Dolores Cahill on COVID19
ahundredthidiot
Unless you are able to point to an ethical body of law that supports your position re. public health, your contribution can’t be considered helpful. I’d also suggest you’re inner Tory is showing through. 😉
The precautionary principle: in action for public health
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
@ahundrethidiot
I listened to the first 30 min with some Irish guy, first 10 seemed to be her telling us how clever she was. Had some issues with most will be immune due to Sars spreading round the world. That seemed a strange statement as I would assume Sars is slightly different from covid but obviously I don’t have the expertise to query this. But if this is true then presumably you are immune from the flu if you have had it once then, even if it is a slightly different strain.
Anyway it is a bit pointless you believe the scientists you want to believe, you believe her I believe others. Trying to drum your position onto others seems to be relentless, you disagree with what is happening, I understand that. Every thread now contains those who believe this is a conspiracy but I still haven’t worked out what the conspiracy is.
Great article in Scotsman by Sir Harry Burns on why the border should have been shut years ago to avoid UK government incompetence over coronavirus. link to archive.is
On newspapers the National is up to 10,500 digital subscribers.
At only £2 for two months its a bargain and we should make sure that the only independence supporting newspaper survives
link to thenational.scot
Joe posted this last night and Tinto Chiel reposted it, so if there is incoming as a result please distribute it fairly!
😉
(Has a lot of interesting facts about what the 77th Brigade is up to and its peculiar vetting processes.)
link to youtube.com
Davy Smith said:
21 May, 2020 at 11:31 am
“Why is the SG subsidising it’s enemies..?”
What makes you think they are enemies?
The Scottish Government are the Empire’s colonial administrators and the media are the Empire’s propaganda machine.
Ian Brotherhood
Ian, I’ve no doubt there is a lot about covid-19 that those in power are seeking to manipulate for the purpose of accumulating power. That said, we are not going to find an ethical solution if we abandon the “precautionary principle”. That’s largely why we have Brexit, as the Tories feel the precautionary principle simply held British business back from being exceptional.
It isn’t possible to respect global health law without a legal respect for the precautionary principle, which Scotland will be separated from by Brexit.
PUBLIC POLICIES GUIDED BY THE
PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE
link to ncchpp.ca
@CamB –
Just a reminder, in case you’d forgotten, that I said, quite clearly t’other night, that I wouldn’t be reading or responding to any more of your links.
I wasn’t saying that for effect, so please ignore my posts and/or refer your links to others. I’m not interested.
No hard feelings, but that’s the way it is.
😉
Ian Brotherhood
Your arse. ;(
The Beano’s weekly circulation in April 1950 was 1,974,072;kind of makes you think eh?
ROTTEN Fake News doesn’t do public transparency.
@Ian Brotherhood 4.15: you absolute stinker, you! 🙂
“Absolute shower!” he T-T’d.
BBC pushing the advantage of the government spying app. They’ve no chance of me loading this app that is going to keep your data. I would have considered the google one once I was sure of its propriety.
Carlaw is an evil barsteward. 2000 tracers trained in a couple of days. Were his mechanics similarly trained? No wonder he went bust *** twice.
I’ve investigated thoroughly and apparently there are facilities here in Scotland to work with materials at the most minute, atomic size.
I’ll ask if they can manufacture the most minute violin to play a lament to mark the demise of the BritNazi press.
To all wingers, is it true that anyone who questions covid orthodoxy will be treated as a terrorist under the law?If so why?Why no debate permissible? To my mind British and Scottish Governments and Media are the true Terrorists who frighten society with a virus that was downgraded before Governments granted themselves 350 pages of Police Emergency powers.350 pages of super quick convenience.Step up the Suckers.
Just 2 mins into the video and I’d like to point out that these figures are easily manipulated to prove whatever point you want to make.
Were the excess deaths caused by covid-19 or comorbidities? Almost everyone has a pre-existing condition. But those conditions would not necessarily have killed you if you hadn’t contracted covid-19.
If it isn’t covid-19 causing all these excess deaths, then what is?
I know, I should listen to the rest of the video. But I’m already very sceptical.
Smith of BBC Scotland on in the background anyone know what the fkr is bumping her gums about now , I notice the botanic gardens in the background with some eh locals being set up to play their part in the Probable Hatchet job , rather than keep their head down the hunts at Pacific Heights as usual are taking the Piss again,
Maybe someone in the SNP will get off their arse and at least attempt some kind of retaliation .
@Capella: maybe you should watch the whole thing, then.
It got very interesting for me when 77 Brigade was examined.
I wonder how many seasonal ‘flu deaths have been put down to Covid-19? We don’t seem to have heard much of SF deaths this spring.
Tinto Chiel
I’m certainly not looking to stifle debate and I’m certainly not claiming full knowledge of the level of threat there is to public health. Saying that, HMG’s hostility to the precautionary principle magnified a public health threat into a crises. Relaxing lock-down prematurely, simply isn’t rational. Though neither is British constitutional legal practice. Full text.
Precautionary Principles in Constitutional Law
link to academic.oup.com
‘a negative narrative of circulation decline’ – like the wording. It is good news that people are not buying these papers. What I don’t get is the Scottish government subsidising these pedlars of propaganda.
@IanBrotherhood,4.15
Many thanks for reposting this link Ian. It is interesting to see the place of Integrity Initiative in this web. Regarding sharing information, these two articles by Vanessa Beeley provide another slant on the COVID 19 situation link to ukcolumn.org
link to ukcolumn.org
Interesting interview with Professor Sunetra Gupta, an epidemiologist at Oxford University.
link to tinyurl.com
She casts some doubt on the governments lockdown policy, and the notion of a “second wave”. I wonder what advice NS is listening to? She should publish the advice that she is recieving.
@ Sandy.
It’s amazing, is it not, as soon as criticism arises over some aspect of the UK govs handling of the pandemic it is immediately transformed into an SNP baad accusation.
Today it was training. Hancock claiming that extensive and meticulous training was given to all testers was refuted by the so called trained, they said that almost no training was given other than being told to watch a few YouTube videos.
Wonder how Car crash new that was coming.
Re Boris and today’s spectacular volte face over NHS charges for immigrant health workers – what about those who have already paid these obscene charges – will they receive a refund?
Tinto,
That made me smile. It’s a long time since I’ve seen a Terry Thomas movie.
I mind years ago when the papers were the rage for the young contractors (about 1980s).
In the Mess Room (Longannet CMO team) my big mate took 2 off Daily Records and ripped each one up into neat piles. He cut out Adverts in one paper and news print in the other. He laid them down on the table.
On both cut up Newspapers, including page one, which had a massive useless fkn misleading headline and photograph, and a 2 inch square of small meaningless news print, the rest of the cuttings were split into adverts and news.
The news we noticed, was non-factual gossip (shite),the football section was ignored.
Resultant factors,adverts were about 80% of the paper.There was a-non news bit for crossword and comic strips,and a bit with a lady with a bikini (page 3).
Wee hung the cuttings in the toilets on top of the roll dispensers. This project took 15 mins.
Sorry to bore, but who the fk takes newspapers seriously.
In the 70s,80s the Daily Record was regarded a Labour Party workers rag, the SNP had evolved from the Scottish Tories called the Tartan Tories, no one I knew was interested in any of the fkrs but we despised the Tories.
Then and now, any walk of life can morph into what it wants to be, manipulating people. The Press is now fkd, what media bstrds are going to take over.
I used to uread Newspapers to get the information, I would think and act the opposite, I think this is called reading between the lines.
Mr Trump would say Fake News (Bleach Breath). I call it Fk News.
@ Tinto Chiel – yes, you’re right. I will listen to the whole thing. I certainly believe that the 77th brigade are creating a great deal of confusion. It’s the Steve Bannon modus operandi.
Glen Greenwald has an article about the evil CIA causing grief, death and havoc around the world. Why would Scotland be exempt?
That I do believe.
link to theintercept.com
@ Ian Brotherhood.
Hi, I’m about 3/4 through the video.
Very, very worrying regards 77 Brigade, connections and duties which appear entirely directed at manipulating the public’s perception on behalf of the government, disrupting criticism of government over covid19, they appear to be in partnership with Twitter, Facebook etc. Also interesting comment regarding the Italian government now saying the number of deaths attributed to covid19 was overstated. I wasn’t aware the complaints from Italian MP’s had been taken on board.
Thanks
We have been screaming out for instant rebuttals from the SNP since 2012,,,and still the silence from them continues.
Do the SNP not hear the same mince we hear?
Ruth Davidson yesterday running down Scotland, unchallenged.
Where was Blackford and Co?
They were probably re counting their bank balances.
They still can’t get away with the amount of money that is pouring into it for doing fuck all.
Mugs R Uz.
I see the President of the Flat Earth Society has re surfaced.
Alright there Capella?
Roll on indyRef2 eh,,,no hurry there,,, well you wouldn’t need to be, with your hero Sturgeon at the wheel.
The Scottish government is not the SNP
Sure they control most matters
With a little help
Business subsidies because of the affect of covid19 on business would bee decided by committee
Cross party committee
£3, 400,000 split between 165 newspapers across Scotland works out at about twenty thousand quid each
I would rather they got zilch
We very one of them a britnat rag
But the daily message from NS is that the Scottish governments response to covid19
is not political
There lies your answer
Hey…Cameron. b Brodie … I don’t hate everything English like you say
I don’t hate my gran or my cousin or Man U or the many places in England where I lived
Trimley st Martin , Poole , Colchester etc all nice
I do hate England’s control of Scotland
Unlike you I say it is england that controls Scotland and works against Scotland
It’s English voters that vote in MPs that denigrate Scotland
You like WGD cannot being yourself to say that England is our enemy
You say it’s british nationalists that are Scotland’s enemy
People in England don’t consider themselves to be british nationalists
Only you and a few other Scottish bloggers use that term over and over again
English people living in Scotland consider themselves English not British nationalists
Overseas non eu people living in Scotland consider themselves to be the nationality of the country where they were born , even when they get a british passport after living her for five years they only refer to themselves as British when they have to and never reefer to themselves or see themselves as British nationalists
British nationalists is a fake term used by you and other bloggers in Scotland too faird to say English
Quite happy to refer to EU people by their nationality but you’re faird to call English people English
England’s a great country
I like england
I like English people
I don’t like England’s treatment of Scotland
I don’t like English peoples treatment of Scotland
It s england that Scotland wants to break free from
So English people no matter where on earth they live should NOT get a vote on the matter
Capella,
Just to add to your link about the CIA
Journalists for Hire: How the CIA Buys the News (Gekaufte Journalisten)
Book by Udo Ulfkotte
Dr. Udo Ulfkotte, a former editor for the German main daily newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ), has first hand knowledge of how the CIA and German Intelligence (BND) bribe journalists to write articles free of truth, facts, and with a decidedly pro-Western, pro-NATO bent or, in other words, propaganda…
I’m not sure if it’s still the case but it used to be only available in German.
Watched the YouTube video earlier which Joe posted.
Beyond Tobias Elwood, the military machinations have been apparent in the skies above us for some time.
The airbus n400 grizzly endlessly circling glasgow and it environs during ‘training’ exercises recently was more evidence of that.
I wonder how nicola sturgeon came up with her 4 phase plan, probably written on the back of a fag packet, is there anyone in the Scottish government who cares about the consequences of the lockdown? She plans on allowing shops and other venues to reopen in August with some conditions, but she can’t possible justify waiting that long, especially when the science around the lockdown is still undecided. Its as if she wants to string this out as long as possible.
A quote from the professor in the link I posted above “We might have done better by doing nothing at all, or at least by doing something different”
The science on which the lockdown was original based, professor neil ferguson work, has already been widely trashed as it vastly overstated the number of potential deaths.
But nicola sturgeon and the other lockdown fanatics in the government, media and terrified public still insist that the lockdown is correct and that anyone who questions it must be some sort of conspiracy theorist.
I’m sure nicola will stick to her ridiculous 4 phase timetable, because deviating from it and lifting the lockdown earlier than she expects would involve admitting that she is wrong and that they did and have wildly overreacted to this “crisis”.
Are yah clapping then ?
terence callachan
I can accept I’m perhaps being a bit critical of how you’ve expressed your political opinions in the past.
Tinto Chiel says:
21 May, 2020 at 6:36 pm
@Capella: maybe you should watch the whole thing, then.
It got very interesting for me when 77 Brigade was examined.
I wonder how many seasonal ‘flu deaths have been put down to Covid-19? We don’t seem to have heard much of SF deaths this spring.
——————
That’s cause seasonal flu is Nov-Feb maybe?
It’s a respiratory disease similar to a cold.
Not being funny but thought I’d post a link to what flu is just as a wee guide.It’s seems a lot of people on here seem to be over the age of 18 years and considered an adult-tho i hay ma doots about some lol.
link to nhs.uk
Corona virus is not flu and in most cases doesn’t put hundreds of thousands of people on ventilators,has doctors and nurses wearing full protective gear, doctors and nurses dying.
So what would you rather have?
1) A dose of the flu,or even pleurisy
or
2) A dose of the covid 19
Yeah I’m clapping for the hundreds of Health care workers who have lost their lives. They deserve that at least.Never known so many (vaccinated against flu) workers to die.
Flu season is not Nov-Feb it is normally between Dec-Mar but has been known to happen as late as May. Flu seasons do regularly kill thousands of people in this country and I am sure the NHS does try to take precautions during those events to prevent it spreading in hospitals. Its just we normally don’t bat an eyelid and we don’t instigate devasting lockdowns.
Covid 19 has not put hundreds of thousands of people on ventilators, the NHS didn’t need any of the extra ICU capacity that was made available. NHS Lousia Jordan didn’t treat a single patient.
According to recent statistics Covid 19 is about as deadly as the the flu, but the risk increases with age. Not unexpected with pneumonia the “the old man’s friend”.
The current drop of Tories certainly appear morally incompetent and supportive of social Darwinism. They also appear happy to lead us into a new age of eugenics, a.k.a. government through FORCE.
The Idea of Precaution: Ethical Requirements for the Regulation of New Biotechnologies in the Environmental Field
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
@robbo: seasonal ‘flu is normally calculated up to April, I believe.
I don’t want to catch anything: I’ve had pneumonia twice and been hospitalised. Covid-19 seems a particular danger to people in their late seventies, however.
I’ve never had ‘flu but took the vaccine the last two years because of my history. I still haven’t had ‘flu but am not sure of the vaccine’s role in that.
They did the same with A&E waiting time figures,
Scottish Gov was bashed on the head by having slightly higher waiting times than England,
Scottish NHS with help from Scottish Gov cut the waiting time figures while the England NHS with no help from UK Gov foung their figures nosedive,
two ways to fix it,
better fund the English A&E or stop publishing A&E figures,
guess what UK Gov done/did.
And obviously never to be mentioned by our corrupted and hopeless MSM.
If you want to understand the source of this crises, I suggest you look to how the Tories responded to their legal obligation to respect public health and the rights of future generations.
Remember, civil law protection from maladministration does not apply to Scotland (see Brexit).
Chapitre 2. Precautionary principle and civil law.
link to europepmc.org
Flu reports
link to gov.uk
link to gov.uk
@Breastplate 7.08: indeed. Left something for you on Off Topic.
I watched the U.K. Column News article covering 77 Brigade and some of its mid level officer appointments are interesting.From private to Lieutenant Colonel in three years? They seem to be shaping the emotional, intellectual battlefield. Psychological warfare waged against the public through media and internet. Any serving professional soldier should feel dishonoured to spy on his own people his or her kith and kin. My Grandfather fought in two wars for this country not for us to hand it over to jumped up little tyrants like Sturgeon and Johnson.First Ministers plans regarding lockdown are insane.Is she in the real world at all or in her Feuhrer Bunker?A wee day oot to Portobello would be good for her.
Until the SNP heirarchy has been gutted, independence is going nowhere, but it’s sad that there are still so many SNP happy clappers who refuse to acknowledge that the movement has stalled since 2015. Despite being no closer to independence – or even a second referendum – since 2015, some are downright abusive, no matter how constructive you try to be in your criticisms of the strategy and/or motivations of “oor Nicola” and co.
For all the finger pointing at Sturgeon and Murrell however, they are only part of the problem, as they have surrounded themselves with like-minded chancers and careerists. The likes of Smith and Blackford should be consigned to being snake oil salesmen, with Wishart going back to peddling third-rate teuchter emo pop and Black reverting to being a potty-mouthed NED screaming abuse at “TERFs” on street corners.
.
For those with an interest in the newspaper circulations…
Newspaper accounts, where the owners are limited, plc or llp require to be filed at Companies House.
link to gov.uk
Reading balance sheets and profit/loss accounts can be a bit like water divining with a limp twig over a wet Ouija board whilst blindfolded and hoping a ghost gives you the real numbers.
Especially when the newspaper company employs a “creative” accountant.
However, there comes a point where the fig leaf of going ex-directory at ABC circulation will be akin to having a microscopic four leaf clover cover the 8 inch scholng of one of these trans men-to-women perverts who enjoy sharing changing rooms with young girls at the local swimming pool. In both situations a dangerous predator is doing evil things whilst being protected by those in power.
Is it okay to laugh out loud when these poisonous gossip rags go bankrupt and the shittty little creeps such as Hutcheon, Leask and their ilk end up on Universal Credit.
The truth just keeps slipping out.
link to facebook.com
Well said Chris spot on
The reason they get abusive and angry is because their consumed with guilt and they know your right
bipod says:
21 May, 2020 at 8:18 pm
You didn’t answer . Just gave a different view.
Would you rather have flu than covid?
NHS Louisa Jordan didn’t treat a single patient.
Yes and thank goodness for that.Louisa Jordan was built as a precious protection if NHS became overwhelmed .Any sensible government would do the same again. If they didn’t build one you would have complained about that.
According to what fecking statistics that covid is same as flu.Does that make it right that in the year 2020 we just say
Acht disnae matter it’ll only kill same number as flu, let them die . Away back wae REES-MOOG to the 1700’s ffs.
By her own admission, Mrs. Murrell has publicly said that the Scottish governement have been in lockstep with the UK government in dealing with this Coronavirus.
It’s become quite clear to almost everyone apart from the Tory party that the UK government has mishandled the situation extremely badly.
Mrs. Murrell and the Scottish government have been doing almost exactly the same as the UK government except maybe a week or two later.
So if the UK government has fucked up the handling of the Coronavirus outbreak then quite obviously, the Scottish government has too, since they’ve been in lockstep.
So, why the fuck is everyone going on about how great a job Mrs. Murrell has been doing?
@Mist,
Whose advice do we take to deal with a pandemic then? Nicola Sturgeon or the doctors ?
It’s a bit like asking a joiner to rebuild your Mercedes engine.
@ Tinto Chiel (IanB) So I watched all of it.
The information about the 77th Brigade is interesting. Since Carol Cadwalladr revealed a great deal through the whistleblowers on VOTE LEAVE and BREXIT it’s been obvious that a lot of dark manipulation is going on an has been for years. The effects in Scotland have still to be investigated but for sure they have been busy from their derelict mill in Fife.
But we did know about that already.
RE the University of Cambridge going online. That has been talked about for over 20 years. At the end of the digital day, University is a BRAND. Do you want to get your degree from Oxford, Harvard, Edinburgh, Princeton etc etc. The Library, research facilities, lectures, tutorials have all been available online for over 20 years. Face to face student/tutor exchange can be done through summer schools and evening classes. The Open University started off on TV in the 70s. There’s nothing necessarily sinister about that. It could be argued that it is more egalitarian and accessible.
Are we at war with China? Yes. Also Russia and Iran and Venezuela. It’s about oil. See John Pilger’s videos on the subject.
What’s it all got to do with covid-19? I don’t think they made that clear apart from some vague notion that the death rates are from something else, unspecified.
I’m convinced that there is a conspiracy. It’s to allow herd immunity aka survival of the fittest aka social darwinism, to carry off the bulk of the old, the sick, the disabled the poor and the homeless misfits who are economically irrelevant to private capital. In fact they are a drain. It’s called Tory Party policy.
Captain Burridge’s pal who researches well being as an alternative policy goal to the profit motive may well be the sanest person in the video! You may recall both Nicola Sturgeon’s TED talk on well being and Jacinda Ardern’s policy direction centred on well being. What is wrong with that?
I think they are doing important work digging up all the facts. Their narrative is a bit unclear.
Tinto Chiel says:
21 May, 2020 at 8:27 pm
@robbo: seasonal ‘flu is normally calculated up to April, I believe.
Neither do I want to catch it. I have lupus and APS , and partial COPD , so a dose of covid would most likely put me out of my misery 50-50 at best.
Does ma box in people just brushing this aside like a skint knee.
We not enough of this beastie yet, so preventative lockdown over herd mentality for ME any day.
Mist001 says:
21 May, 2020 at 8:55 pm
Acht
Away you go and get a haircut! (smiley thing)
@jfngw: thanks for those reports. Still reading through them.
My question was, “I wonder how many seasonal ‘flu deaths have been put down to Covid-19?”
You do hear of doctors claiming pressure is put on them to register certain aged deaths in particular as Covid-19 deaths. Is testing being carried out to ascertain the actual cause of death?
“Does ma box in people just brushing this aside like a skint knee.
We not enough of this beastie yet, so preventative lockdown over herd mentality for ME any day.”
I’m hardly doing that, robbo. I’m asking about ‘flu statistics and to what extent doctors are distinguishing between deaths from the former with deaths from Covid.
@Capella: well, as someone not as well-versed in these 77 Brigade matters as you, is it ok to say I enjoyed it, and was rather alarmed by bits of it?
link to centerforhealthsecurity.org
Event 201. In Oct 2019 a hypothetical scenario was played out regarding a pandemic caused by the transmission of a coronavirus from bat to pig to people. Involved parties included World Economic Forum and the Bill&Melinda gates foundation.
Considering that 4 out of 5 people who catch it are asymptomatic I may have already had it.
I am more than happy to go back to my normal life with the risk that I might catch it. Anyone who isn’t prepared to take that risk should self isolate themselves so that they don’t catch it, we shouldn’t place every body under house arrest.
Do you think that we should have a lockdown every flu season? Do you know conquences of lockdown, its not as simple as lifes vs the economy.
Another interesting quote from Professor Sunetra “Different countries have had different lockdown policies, and yet what we’ve observed is almost a uniform pattern of behaviour”, suggesting that the lockdown might not have been preventative in any way.
@Tinto Cheil
How could anyone answer that, but it’s quite clear the flu peak was in Dec 2019, but if some don’t believe the graphs then it is irrelevant.
What you can see from the graphs that cover the last few years is that there is a massive death spike from March 2020, much larger than any other year.
Someone told me to watch a youtube video on an earlier thread, I watched part of it, this expert says ‘if we had locked away those susceptible to the virus then nobody would have died’. That’s the equivalent of me saying if I knew the Sat lottery numbers I would be a millionaire.
jfngw @ 9.28: “How could anyone answer that?”
Well, that was the question I was asking.So we don’t really know if or how many ‘flu deaths have been lumped in with Covid deaths?
It wasn’t a trick question.
@bipod
Superdrug are selling a testing kit if you really want to know if you’ve had it. Only £69.
No country has really had a lockdown policy, the UK one still allows you to go out. If it was possible to truly have a complete lockdown the spread should have stopped within a couple of weeks. Unfortunately people need to eat and some work. Unless you are disputing the virus is person to person spread.
If the lockdown had no effect your really going to have to explain the difference in death rates between Norway an Sweden, one had basically a voluntary lockdown.
@ Bob Mack
No. Health was, we were told, a devolved matter to Scotland. It’s since transpired that that’s not actually the case.
The advice and experience was pouring in from Europe but instead of taking control of health and listening to what was coming in from Europe and being guided by that, Mrs. Murrell allowed Westminster to dictate health policy to Scotland by following them in lockstep.
The Westminster policies have since been seriously discredited and the UK government has come under severe and fully deserved criticism. It follows therefore that Mrs. Murrell and the Scottish governments handling of the crisis should also face the same criticisms.
Ive come accross PR company/intel guys before. Jfngw – your contributions to comments on covid-19 are of a very similar style. Just saying.
@Joe
Your contributions look like a troll, just saying.
Sadly for you I’ve been commenting on here for a number of years, I can’t believe we can say the same about you. Maybe I’m a sleeper, that’s the normal conspiracy theorist conclusion I think.
Sorry but I was an engineer before I retired.
Professor Giesecke of Sweden reckons that all lockdown does is postpone what’s going to happen anyway. You could argue, and this was the initial reason given,that it would give the NHS time to prepare.
That happened and we now have massive over-capacity.
Surely, the right policy now is to get back to normal, tell folks to be vigilant and let’s just start to enjoy life.
I am becoming very worried by the number of people who seem to be totally controlled by this virus and are living like robots.
You see it at the orderly queues outside supermarkets, the wearing of masks, the sidestepping away from other humans and, worryingly, the desire of parents to keep their children off school.
What kind of people are we?
I always thought Scots were an independent race but the ease by which the majority of us are being controlled is very scary.
Bottom line to the cause of this UKOKplc. health crises, is the Tories are ideologically opposed to the principles of universality, equality in law, public health ethics and the precautionary principle. Now they think they can inflict Brexit in Scotland. That’s how far up itself right-wing English culture has become.
@Mist,
The problem with Covid was the rapid onset, and yes weeks is a rapid onset. To initiate testing takes several major steps. Do you have a reliable test?
Do you have the labs and staff to perform those tests?
Do you have the means in terms of samplers and venues to mass test?
Evidently the answer to these questions was No. What then ?
You lock down the population best you can can till you have these things in place. That’s exactly what happened in the UK.
Scotland’s public health infrastructure was no better prepared than England to deal with an urgent pandemic
Other European countries ‘ran the same scenario in exercises and acted on the outcomes. The UK did not. Scotland with only benefits of consequential could never outlay the cash to prepare for a pandemic on its own
@Pete,
There are guys in Northern Territory of Australia who tell you it’s safe to swim with saltwater crocodiles provided you are careful and quiet. Possibly they are like you, correct.
@Pete
I don’t believe there was any other claim than it would reduce the peaks, it was never punted as a cure, not even by the incompetents at Westminster.
You either need to hope for a vaccine or it not being as virulent as is claimed.
No politician is going to go for the free for all (well maybe Johnson and Trump could) because if they are wrong and the death rate is massive they will be culpable.
‘Lockdown’ is ‘herd mentality’.
Once this is all over, you’ll probably find the highest death rates occurred under the most right-wing and authoritarian of governments. Just saying. 😉
COVID-19 in Brazil: “So what?”
link to thelancet.com
Bob Mack, all flus have a ‘rapid onset’ phase surely? And don’t ‘rapid onset ‘ make effective political buzz words designed to grip the emotions like much of the insanely emotive arguments for house arrest.
So Capella,we keep voting SNP and we’ll find Nicola Sturgeon has a plan up her Merkel sleeve and everything will be alright and we’ll carry on voting and Nicola will carry on promising and and and?
jfngw, waiting for a vaccine?Are you out of your mind?How long will that bloody well take?Jesus fucking Christ man.
Nicola Sturgeon and her supporters are a cult like shower of fanatical SJWs and climate alarmists.Their agenda will impoverish the West. It will lead to lower standards of living.The list of school girl demands presented to us by Greta Thunderbox is a propaganda ‘work’.She’s a distraction from the fact that there is much more dubiety and contention in Climate Science than is presented in the media .Its another example of the media being fully on board with and push a political narrative on Climate that I think is thoroughly dishonest and in fact a tax gathering racket. Also the girl does not have an argument only self righteous indignation and a certain Jack Elam look which scares the weans.
Can Scottish government not find someone with a Scottish accent to do the audio on their video outlining the 4 stage voming out of lockdown process
@ Tinto Chiel – of course we should all enjoy the search for truth. It’s good that people are asking the questions.
RE flu deaths – Covid-19 isn’t flu. It’s a different virus and it’s more infectious than flu. It also appears to have 10 times the death rate.
Are GPs told to register deaths as Covid-19? I’ve actually read the opposite i.e. to keep numbers in England down they are told to register anything but Covid-19. However, the number of excess deaths are evidence that there is an infection that is killing large numbers of people. It isn’t flu. The lockdown is suppressing all infections, including flu.
See Euromono graphs and maps. Scroll down to see that England has a very high z number for excess deaths. The z score is explained in the text.
link to euromomo.eu
By way of an informative ‘intermission’:
🙂
link to youtube.com
Covid 19 is not 10 times deadlier than the flu. That was the scare story trotted out at the start of this, and was the assumption used in professor neil fergusons model which is now discredited. The risk of the virus increases with age, those past their 80s have do a high chance of dying (as you would also expect with also with the flu and pneumonia), but children under the age of 14 have about as much chance of being hit and killed by lighning as they do of dying from the coronavirus.
As for the the registration of covid deaths section 1 of this article has a nice summary.
link to architectsforsocialhousing.co.uk
No test is required, simply a suspicion. As for the excess deaths you shouldn’t discount the deaths that are being caused by the lockdown. The ONS reckon that up to 30% of the excess deaths are non covid related.
Craig Murray has posted a new article regarding the charges he faces.
He also wants people to sign up to virtual public viewing of the case.
See here: link to craigmurray.org.uk
RE deaths caused by the lockdown. How? Are you saying that staying in your house for 5 weeks, apart from daily exercise and food/medicine shopping, is fatal? How?
Sinky.
Yeh that`s what is happening to our country.
Television, radio, insurance companies, phone companies, credit card companies the voice at self service check out at supermarkets, in-store radio, etc ,etc,,etc etc, all English accents.
Its all about Anglifying Scotland, brainwashing us into thinking our accent is course and backward, and this and more is happening while the proud Scots are fast asleep.
Talking about how we develop an understanding of science, like flyping, I might have mentioned “epistemology” is a good Scottish invention.
COVID-19: on the epistemic condition
Indigenous cosmologies have always argued that we must treat the world as an interconnected, living organism with supreme complexity, fragile resilience and indeed mystique.
link to opendemocracy.net
.
Pete = Dominic Cummings.
Johan Giesecke = Angel of Death.
What utter dangerous pish some trolls spout.
Does PishyPete even read this WoS website?
Probably the best answer to the 77th Brigade Commander In Pish is the the haunting work by Chris Cairns…
The Josephe Mengele wannabe is as batshit crazy as the Covid infested bats for sale in Wuhan last December.
Would anyone support the sacrificing of their mother, father or disabled family members because there are not enough ventilators? Just because the NHS DID manage to cope is no guarantee this won’t happen again, but 100 times worse. PishyPete using hindsight to say: unlock all the doors, infect everyone and to hell with the collateral damage is a STUPID reckless point of view.
As for PishyPete and the urine he spouts, we are not out of this by a long shot. The idiot orangutan in the White House may yet kill a million of his citizens.
———————
Meanwhile in Sweden and the mad professor..
link to unherd.com
On QT, I just heard probably the worst piece of journalistic crap, well, ever, from Camilla Tominey.
In response to the accusation that the UK(England) locked down too late, which to my mind is simply an observation rather than conjecture, she actually came out with “Well to be fair we did lock down before the peak.”
There are only two dreadful conclusions which may be drawn from that.
First, that a so called journalist could be so very ignorant about how a pandemic works. The modest peak we have seen, and its timing, is entirely a consequence of the lock down. It only represents approximately a 15th of the peak we would have seen without lock down and several weeks earlier.
Second, and worse, is if she knew that but thought enough of the audience would be too stupid to understand that.
bipod says:
21 May, 2020 at 11:19 pm
Every day/week NS or JF give you updates on the people that test +pos for the virus that have died and those suspected of having died with covid being suspected as a possible contributing factor in their death-two distinct figures.
Am i wrong or right,or do you never listen to briefing but rather parrot theories by conspiracy charlatans?
If the died from flu related death then they wouldn’t test for +pos covid and would be on the other columns in ONS figures that along with other illnesses. Or is the ONS wrong now too?
What you’re trying to say is in a sneaky way -nothing to see here,covid doesn’t exist,it’s a conspiracy !
Where’s Mel Gibson when you need him-maybe he could find the answer.
@Capella
Depression, other mental health issues?
Cancer patients not being treated link to itv.com, heart disease, people not turning up to A&E becasue they are afraid of the virus. The list goes on.
@robbo
I am not questioning the existence of covid 19. I am pointing out that covid 19 is not as deadly as originally thought, so it doesn’t make sense to place the entire population under house arrest. I am also questioning the effectiveness of the lockdown, many nations have taken different approaches with the severity of their lockdowns and there have been different results. The UK has had a lockdown and has performed very badly, Japan which has an elderly population hasn’t had a lockdown and they have performed much better.
3rd world countries, which many people thought the virus would rip through, haven’t had really ahd any trouble and their healthcare systems have not collapsed and thats not because of a lockdown.
I’m sure you accept that the government has made mistakes during this, couldn’t it also be the case that the government and media narrative on this is also wrong?
@bipod
So lockdown happened on 25th March, this resulted in a spike of cancer deaths three weeks later, you know nothing about cancer I’m afraid.
The oncologists are referring to cases in the future that could have been caught earlier and received treatment, these people will not be dead yet.
Maybe it was a brain sucking spaceship, just about as plausible.
bipod
Your moral compass appears to be functioning sub-optimally.
———–
Here’s one for everyone else, apart from the other obvious fannies. Fill your boots.
Multi?Case Review of the Application of the Precautionary Principle in European Union Law and Case Law
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
Why are some people still moaning about the lockdown?
For the record, I’ve been in lockdown working from home since 24th March, and could be doing so for several months.
I’ve not gone mental wibble wibble squeeeeee Nigel Farage for Prez…
Never feed me after midnight…
The CMO, Health Minister and Nicola Sturgeon made it clear weeks ago that
1 covid patients should go to the specialist hubs for treatment
2 all other patients should attend their GP as normal.
If people don’t attend because of fear of the virus that is obviously not because of the lockdown.
@bipod
You are becoming more of a dangerous joke than anything else as is Ian Brotherhood I have COPD and need a breath test to assertain whether one of the inhalers I am on is working but I am not as selfish as you appear to be in putting health workers lives on the line to satisfy my particular needs. So wind your neck in. Some of us care about others wellbeing and if I end up as casualty that’s life.
Arguably, without the lockdown the level of fear of the virus would be even higher.
@jnfgw
Yes. It is a ridiculous sounding statement. You can take it more as a criticism of your gate keeping, never-meet-a-difficult-question-head-on-and-never-say-i-dont-know, always-add-a-put-down, slippery, always established narrative defending style and not an accusation.
@Cynical highlander
Its lucky you dont play football for a living. Playing the man instead of the ball constantly would make you a managers nightmare.
Joe
The reason I don’t argue with you in a manner that suites you, is I’m not looking to help sell your twisted imagination.
Science in inaction – The shifting priorities of the UK government’s response to COVID-19 highlights the need for publicly accountable expert advice.
link to blogs.lse.ac.uk
@Joe
I think it’s called opinion, that’s what a BTL area is. You are not required to read my comments, it’s not obligatory, if you don’t like them just scroll on by because I don’t really care what you think.
I’m not the gatekeeper, it’s not my site.
Lol there is a real number of people here who simply cannot seem to discus the China Virus without adding insults or put downs. With some its just put downs and no argument. For the honest and scared folk – try not lashing out, its just honest concerns/questions, get a grip. For the pro’s – you are a waste of money and space. I could do a better job pissed.
@CameronB Brodie
I’ll repeat something I said before – i will not do you the courtesy of engaging with you until you honestly engage with others without evasion, without ad-hominems and without copying amd pasting paragraph after paragraph of post modernist neo marxist critical theory garbage 🙂
Joe
Btw, that one from the LSE highlights why we need more than science to guide us, we need moral reason than is coherent with existing public and administrative law. Preferably law that is not divorced from the Natural Law (see British constitutional law).
Bringing New Law to Ocean Waters, 357-79.
The Evolution and International Acceptance of
the Precautionary Principle
link to mmc.gov
@ Ian Brotherhood at 11:17 pm
By way of an informative ‘intermission. ~ IVOR CUTLER LIVES !
Joe
If the stakes weren’t so high, I think I’d enjoy sparring with you, but you’re just not someone I take seriously.
RESCUING THE STRONG
PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE
FROM ITS CRITICS
link to illinoislawreview.org
This psychologist also has a Phd in epidemiology.
link to m.youtube.com
Joe
You appear desperate to cherry picking scientific evidence to suite your right-wing agenda (see “the China Virus”). If Trump wasn’t such an unhinged psycho, your nation might have responded more promptly and competently to WHO advice. Do you not think I see you trying to subvert public health, by virtue signalling your concern for public health?
link to today.law.harvard.edu
link to aspe.hhs.gov
Flu deaths v flu associated deaths. Similar to covid-1984 reporting? Most interesting part is the 4th section where it talks about amplifying flu severity to sell vaccines
‘Glen Nowak, associate director for communications at the NIP, spoke on using the media to boost demand for the vaccine. One step of a “Seven-Step `Recipe’ for Generating Interest in, and Demand for, Flu (or any other) Vaccination” occurs when “medical experts and public health authorities publicly…state concern and alarm’
Joe
If you don’t already work for Breitbart…. 😉
A Preliminary Human Rights Assessment of Legislative and Regulatory Responses to the COVID-19 Pandemic across 11 Jurisdictions
link to law.ox.ac.uk
Its goodnight from me and its goodnight from the President of the United States who has a message relevant to you, our government and especially the media
link to m.youtube.com
Joe
I was reading Carroll Quigley when I was in my twenties, but I’ve also learned a lot of stuff about how to dismantle nepotistic government. And how to spot political identities. 😉
Marc-William Palen. The “Conspiracy” of Free Trade: The Anglo-American Struggle over Empire and Economic Globalization, 1846–1896.
link to academic.oup.com
Brexit insists foundational legal knowledge of Scotland has no place in British constitutionalism. That’s simply not compatible with social democracy, as it erases foundational knowledge of Scotland’s legal identity from British legal culture. That’s the legal practice of Nazism.
Pragmatism and Epistemic Democracy
Chapter for The Routledge Handbook of Social Epistemolog
link to researchgate.net
y, doh!
What a great story.Every one should.Just shows what can be done when you’ve not a selfish bastard.
All it cost Mongolia was a good neighbour that told them and some 30,000 sheep
Scozzie says:
22 May, 2020 at 2:41 am
Why not write a letter asking him to outline in detail what exactly the Justice Minister is responsible for….cough, cough if not justice and the judicial system which surely must include the conduct of COPFS!
Here’s an interesting read – how Mongolia got it right on COVID19 – seems timing is everything!
link to medium.com
robbo says:
22 May, 2020 at 6:00 am
That’s an amazing story scozzie!
Thanks
Just shows what you can do when applying the 7 P’s principal. Well done Mongolia
Joe says:
22 May, 2020 at 12:34 am
Lol there is a real number of people here who simply cannot seem to discus the China Virus without adding insults or put downs.
Ooh – irony alert!
So a £3 million package has been agreed with the Scottish (Daily?) Newspaper Society. That ought to have been contingent upon them agreeing to publish their members’ circulation figures.
Evidently a SG negotiation on par with the Ferguson Shipyard debacle.
@Capella 11.05: the “ten times the death rate of ‘flu” claim was an early one and has been seriously questioned by many other scientists, like the ones quoted on the Swiss Propaganda Research site and linked to on Wings several times. This belief may have been why the Nightingale/Jordan hospitals were hastily built but they seem to have been barely needed.
You can perhaps find scientists to say the opposite; that is the problem non-specialists have when trying to discuss this issue. The same goes for how deaths are described on a death certificate: there are conflicting claims. Which group of scientific experts does the lay person believe?
Yes, England’s z number is high on those graphs and other countries have much lower ones, so I don’t see what that has to do with my original question about whether seasonal ‘flu deaths were being put down as Covid ones. It seems we will have to wait much longer to get a clear picture.
Nicola`s `lockdown` exit plan,
link to bit.ly
I think there are a lot of questions to be asked regarding Covid 19, not least the numbers of deaths attributed to it. We really need to stick to what we do know for certain, which is the numbers in excess of the norm.
In February Scotland’s total deaths were 6.7% below the previous 5 yr average, the March figure had a spike showing an excess of around 900 deaths, April spiked to over 3,000 in excess of the 2019 figure. Covid is the most likely of culprits at this stage.
Joe does some nice deflection, does the 77th Brigade have a Euthanasia Section?
@Tinto Chiel
People with underlying health conditions may well die of something else, the criteria I use is would they have lived if they had not caught the virus. If the virus has put an extra strain on them which exacerbated the condition should this be counted as a covid death, some don’t believe it should unless it directly killed them.
@ Tinto Chiel – IIRC the initial fear was that the Covid 19 death rate was 3 to 4% of people infected. That was revised down to 1%. But that’s 10 times more than flu at 0.1%.
The lack of Covid 19 on death certificates in England caused alarm in staff who record deaths. They were seeing a big rise in deaths but few with covid on the death certificate. It’s up to the GP but PHE was said to have pressured them to only record covid if a test had been carried out. Very few tests were available in the community.
Sorry I don’t have links atm. Will search them out. But I agree that experts will differ. We just have to make the best assessment we can with the info available.
@ Scot Finlayson.
Quite an impressive document despite the media already implying that the public might not comply. Nor is it helpful that the opposition demand clarity when the FM had already announced that each stage would be rolled out and explained as it happened.
Prof Michael Levitt on COVID19 – see YT for interview with Unherd
Another day in the UKOK!
link to archive.is
“ A Liberal Democrat peer criticised for furloughing himself to get a government subsidy while continuing to claim a daily allowance from the House of Lords has apologised and promised to pay the money back.”
Prof Johan Giesecke on COVID 19
Prof Sucharit Bhakdi on COVID19
It’s hilarious the Governments usefull idiots on here insulting people who disagree with Sturgeon.U can only assume this site infested with Government Trolls trying to shape the public’s thinking.Im hitting the target because no cunt has an argument that doesn’t come from Governments playbook. You betray our democracy.You ensure your fellow mans rights are removed .None of Government Trolls -Robbo- believe in democracy.
SNPTrolls not interested in truth.
So with so little influence and clearly rejected by the ‘Great British Public’ why does the ‘Great British’ BBC still give them and their tax exile owners free advertising, every night?
Lockdown TV (Unherd) on YouTube is by far the best source of interviews I have found so far. The man has both sides of the argument on and lets them speak (even Neil Ferguson) – so I would suggest that if you want to listen to ‘expert opinion’ in the absence of ANY scientific evidence either way for lockdown, go there.
Do your own research, make up your own mind.
As the MSM and the Britnat parties in Scotland try to leave the impression that the Covid-19 outbreak in the UK was launched in Edinburgh and a failure of the Scotgov I found this thread.
link to twitter.com
There seems to have been no track and trace here, is this a Tory failure, should the English Health Secretary resign? The Tories are clear this sort of thing is a resigning matter, why are they not calling for it. Also why are Labour and the LibDem’s quite on the matter, perplexing, …maybe not!
So the Great Sturgeon drip feeding freedom in case it’s all too much for us at once. I will never vote for that Fascist. Capella must be on psychotropics.
@Golfnut,
` the haters gonna hate`
T. Swift
jfngw (last night o’clock) you said;
‘I listened to the first 30 min with some Irish guy…..’
what does him being Irish have to do with anything?
…..and into the light you come……not very attractive.
@Golfnut
I posted this link earlier, it has a graph showing a massive spike of deaths this year starting in March, way above the flu spikes of previous years. No pronounced spike in Dec 19, but still we will have people claiming a many of these deaths are probably the flu being hidden. Of course not everyone that died with Covid will have died directly of it, the important thing is would they have lived had they not caught it (sorry repeating myself there from an earlier comment but I think it’s worth repeating).
link to gov.uk
@jfngw, Capella: we’re going around in circles here and I’d just be repeating myself saying much more. When scientific experts are in such disagreement it’s difficult for ordinary mortals to get a clear picture and I’m sure we could trade scientific opinions all day with links to all kinds of studies. There’s a large number on the SPR site anyone can consult if they want to but I have sensed a reluctance from some contributors to have a look at them.
I’ve just noticed in today’s National that Professor Whitty, England’s CMO, said yesterday that “the total number of deaths from all causes has now reached the rate seen in an average winter” so make of that what you will. Do we believe him or not?
Ironically, what I found interesting on the clip Ian B referred to wasn’t the reference to Covid but the 77 Brigade stuff and, lo and behold, I hear Tobias Ellwood made an appearance on Newsnight when all the government spokespersons had run for cover.
@ Scot Finlayson.
Aye, very true, but some of them are funny.
” SNP trolls not interested truth”
I really did laugh at that.
@Ahndredtheidiot,
Find out for yourselves he says.
As Homer Simpson of Wings you have excelled yourself with that little gem.
If only we had brains like you eh?
Bob Mack
sorry, once again I missed your argument, but caught the insult.
wha’s like us, eh.
Not usually a fan of Jim Sillars, but found this article to be right on the money;
link to spectator.co.uk
@Tinto Chiel
I agree, we won’t know the full facts for years, in fact it may not even be in my lifetime. I’m going to try to stop commenting on this as it is fruitless, people believe what they want to believe, you cannot browbeat a belief into people, either way.
The trouble with Mr Whitty’s statement is it is not winter so the excess deaths are still above normal, nice bit of covering by him though to try and deceive people with false comparisons (drat commented again).
@Ahundredtheidiot,
You don’t argue. You impose.
Bob Mack
I’m sorry you feel that way, but I suppose that’s better than;
You don’t argue. You insult.
O/T a wee bit.
Hmmm! While we were sleeping.
link to archive.is
My good looking auntie, when adjusting my tie, prior to me going out to the ballroom in the 60’s always said with a smile.
“David, hang onto your holiday money ” 🙂
@Ahundredtheidiot,
Only when deserved!! You are deserving Homer.
A Lancet article on covid-19 fatality rate published on 30th March. Gives 1.38% rate for covid 19 and 0.96% for flu.
The Lancet is quite reputable medical journal IMO.
link to thelancet.com
I like how a bit of science and law get the haters frothing. SCIENCE is not the be-all and end-all though, ETHICS enable us to make use of science. HMG had a legal duty of care that they appear to have simply ignored. And now everyone and their dog feels their a public health experts, and qualified to insist we ignore global health law. There really are some cracking egos on this site. 😉
Tens of thousands of coronavirus tests have been double-counted, officials admit. Saliva & nasopharyngeal swabs from the same person counted twice
This helps fill the 1million gap between “person tested” and tests. 350k double counted.
Two samples taken from same patient are being recorded as two separate tests in the UK governments official figures……
Sky News just running the fact that Sweden has just overtaken the UK as the country with the highest Covid19 deaths per capita in THE WORLD.
I’m shocked.
That Sky News actually admitted the UK had been the world’s worst, that is.
They just kind of slipped that in when they got the chance.
Good ol’ Sweden.
@Dakk,
But, but, but. Ahundredtheidiot and guys like Pete tell us Sweden is ok. I need to stop listening to our in house experts. They may be flawed doh?
dakk
on a rolling average over a given 7 day period. in terms of deaths per million overall, they are still well below the UK (542 v 380).
in either case, it’s a bit early to be counting the dead, don’t you think?
snapshots and headlines……and fkn sky news – seriously!
Bob Mack
At no point have I ever said Sweden was ‘ok’ while people are dying and take offence Sir.
I will ignore you from now on.
Just one source of many;
link to statista.com
Meanwhile in Aberdeen-shire the gifts that just giving.
Seriously, fecking crochet.What is wrong with people who vote for these idiots!
link to twitter.com
ahundredthidiot
Can you try not to be such a fanny? TA.
At the intersection of public and private morality: an ethical framework for aggressive COVID-19 policies
link to voicesinbioethics.net
@Ahundredtheidiot,
As Homer your alter ego said “The ability to weasel out of any situation is what distinguishes us from the animals__except weasels of course”
I can accept some of the contributors to Wings have become impervious to reason(especially lately), but I draw the line when they become impervious to intelligence.
You know who you are.
Ruth Davidson claims the Scotgov routemap makes no sense, I can only presume she was looking for something like Stay Alert, Control The Virus for clarity or the UK Gov Nando’s chart for how hot the virus is.
@robbo 11:19am
As Professor Tom Nairn nearly said –
Scotland will never be reborn if we keep voting for twats.
Does anyone think it is coincidence that the three states in the world suffering the most from Covid19 – USA, UK, Brazil – are all ‘led’ by far right total numbskulls!?
@ hundredthidiot
‘and fkn Sky News seriously’
Of course I don’t take anything the british propagandists say seriously.
The fact they finally sneakily admitted the UK was the world’s worst was worth noting.
The fact they used Sweden now, rather than Italy, or Spain, or any other poor foreign souls to deflect the truth about their own britain was my main point.
Apparently, I say apparently because this is anecdotal, Lorraine Kelly interviewed the FM, and by all accounts it was a very good interview. However, so I’m told, she went on to say that the FM was just like Ruth Davidson, twice. Eh! What planet is Kelly.
@Golfnut,
Nicola Sturgeon as excellent. So much so that Dr Hilary and Lorraine described her as being “very human”.Of course they had a perplexed look on their faces whilst saying it.
Ruth is Ruth. A comfortable hail fellow well met liar that we al! know.
Thing is Ron, seems we will do.They keep voting Murder Fraser in and now we have the likes of Elma from scooby doo.
The same pattern always emerges they come from the orange variety . They get votes based on hate.
@ Tinto Chiel – the 77th Brigade activities are certainly very interesting. Here’s a Guardian article on the Snowden revelations from August 2015:
Explains, perhaps, why the SAGE group had behavioural scientists trying to “nudge” us into doing what Dominic Cummings wants.
link to archive.fo
Sweden has admitted that it is getting deaths earlier than other countries but over the long haul they don’t expect it to be much different.
On the plus side they haven’t ruined their economy and life is carrying on with much less disruption.
Let’s be clear – the vast majority of deaths are with old people (myself), and of those, mostly in care homes where it is mostly dementia patients who are just parked with no quality of life.
A slightly earlier demise is probably a blessing.
Sorry about sounding uncaring but both Mrs Pete and myself are in agreement
The other big group are those with diabetes (mostly obese) whose survival is down to themselves.
There are very, very few deaths amongst the young, middle aged, fit group.
I just feel that the downsides of lockdown are now outweighing any perceived benefits.
This latest policy of keeping the schools shut till August is just madness.
Why produce a batch of feral pupils when it is just not necessary with kids having next to zero chance of death and teachers something like 0.01%.
Oh well, Nicola is just so wonderful!!
Myself and my wife are losing months of quality life for what?