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Wings Over Scotland

And so it begins

Posted on August 24, 2016 by

“Black hole” grows by £2.4bn in the space of four minutes:


Hopefully we’ll soon have the sort of totally definitive clarity we got last time.

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88 to “And so it begins”

  1. Macart says:

    Ayup, par for the course.

    Time to set about that sock drawer.

  2. Wulls says:

    This is exactly why the MSM has no credibility left.
    It beggars belief that STV news or the newspapers don’t jump all over inflammatory crap like this like a rash……..(.kinda in the same way Labour don’t oppose the Tories every chance they get)

  3. Truth says:

    Saw it was the BBC and ignored it for the lies, distortion and fabrication it will be.

    You see BBC, that is now your reputation.

    I lying deceiving propagandist.

  4. Macandroid says:

    This could be challenging. Can’t find my Jackie Ballie calculator. I’ll just have to
    Make do with my – hold on – 10 fingers + 10 toss = around 23 digits I think!

  5. Bill says:

    Am I missing something, overall UK deficit is 19.1 ban and Scotland is 12.6 bn.

  6. Fred says:

    Scotland will never get a Gers report favourable to independence, the whole thing is a farce. We have been in this abusive “carrot & stick” colonial situation for the past 300 years & supposing the sheep here started shiteing gold dust we would still be an economic basket case.

    So much for the broad shoulders of this Union keeping us from penury & Ruth Davidson’s dire warnings of post Brexit catastrophe, she is now riding a buffalo of a different colour & hoping we don’t notice the difference.

  7. Bill says:

    Apologies, but maybe I’m daft and don’t fully understand this subject. But this site says 19.1 bn for entire UK.

    Yet Scotand is 12.6 bn.

    Don’t get it.

  8. Ruglonian says:

    GERS – Scotland’s finances in the UK

    How this relates to an argument about Scottish Independence?
    Well, it looks like change could be positive?
    No, Scotland’s a shambles.
    Okay, same time next year 🙁

  9. One_Scot says:

    I am not really an expert on all this GERS stuff, but what seems to be plainly clear is that essentially GERS is a tool used by the Yoons to show everyone how F’ked up Scotland is while being part of a damaging and corrosive union.

    Hmmm, if only there was another way..

  10. Robert Peffers says:

    Par for that particular course and, unless we take our own independence, we are stuck with that lying shower of little pretendy journals and journalists. Cheer up though, folks for their death knell has been tolling for quite a considerable time.

    The surprise is that there are still some of them in existence. Personally I suspect they are being secretly funded by The Westminster Establishment or more than likely they are long ago an established part of the Westminster Establishment.

  11. Marcia says:

    My first question would be, can we have a complete breakdown of all the expenditure and how much of that was actually spent in Scotland.


    Why no Oil Fund?

    Next year should be a better year. How are the No’s going to spin those GERS figures?

  12. London is the black hole in Engerland’s bum.

  13. Colin Dawson says:

    Or, as Buzz Lightyear would say; “To infinity and beyond!”

  14. heedtracker says:

    SLabour and BBC Scotland, betterogether, they’re luvin it.

    Scott Arthur Retweeted
    Douglas Fraser ?@BBCDouglasF 50m50 minutes ago
    #GERS from @scotgov
    Govt spend for Scotland: £68.6bn
    Revenue, incl £60m oil tax: £53.7bn
    Deficit: £14.8bn
    9.5% of GDP, UK deficit 4%

  15. Capella says:

    Listened to a small bit of R Scotland output today. Gary Robertson, Douglas Fraser and Andrew Kerr acutely aware that social media were on the case. Desperately trying to say nothing controversial while at the same time, saying nothing.
    No figures mentioned though.

    Douglas Fraser did point out that the timing of the release was the responsibility of officials and not the Scottish Government. So all those smears about NS hiding figures are pure tosh.

  16. Jimbo says:

    “Conservative ministers in the Scottish Office thought it would help inform the debate on devolution, or at least it would help them make their case against a Scottish Parliament.

    The numbers would show, they thought, how much more Scotland gained from the Treasury than it sent south in tax revenues.
    That was one of those times when the oil price was low.”

    And that explains why you can’t believe one word of it.

  17. Footsoldier says:

    This is another blow for the Union as it is clearly not working for Scotland. Time to take control.

  18. One_Scot says:

    I believe with the help of social media more and more people are now becoming aware that the GERS figures are an irrelevance to an Independent Scotland.

    Ironically, all they do is demonstrate that Scotland needs full control over our economy to ensure Scotland becomes a more prosperous country.

    All the Yoons have now is fear and lies, once the fear is gone, all they have is lies.

  19. Grouse Beater says:

    The media owned by the British Establishment plays fast and loose with truth.

    Real democracy is the antidote:

  20. Ken500 says:

    Scotland raises (more than) £54Billion. The UK Raises £515Billion in tax revenues. Take £54Billion from £515Billion = £461Billion. Divide by 11 (rest of the UK 11/12 pop) = £42Billion. The rest of the UK borrows and spends £75Billion + £20Billion black hole.

    Defence spending is (approx) £40Billion nearly 10% of tax revenues. Trident will cost £10Billion a year – 25% of Defence spending. Scotland has to pay approx £1Billion a year for Trident but has no frigates to patrol it’s shores, to prevent drug shipments which damage the Scottsh economy.

    Scotland gets £30Billion block grant back. Pays for public services (all expenses in Scotland). Approx £4Billion Defence which is not all spent in Scotland. Approx £4Billion in loan repayments for money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Approx £3Billion in tax evasion. Whisky companies tax evade. Westminster policies cost Scotland £10Billion+ which could be better spent, to grow the economy. Brexit will cost Scotland even more.

    Scotland raises £54Billion without Oil 2015/16. Scotland raised £54Billion 2014/15 (£4Billion in Oil revenues). Westminster taxed Oil sector at 60/80% when the price had fallen 75%. Tax is now 40%. Oil price has risen to $55.

  21. ronnie anderson says:

    Just for wonce I wish that somebody in the SNP would break ranks & say Gers is a load of PISH ( but they wont as its not a devolved issue)We have no dept other than what Westminster make up.

  22. Robert Graham says:

    whats the betting that its 20 squillions by 6.00 tonight and food parcels are on the way from the U.N. were all doomed , doomed ,go and hide under the covers jocks .

  23. heedtracker says:

    Kevrage rides again! We’ve got much higher deficit than England, despite being run by England but…you don’t have to mad to be a yoonster toryboy in Scotland but it could actually explain clowns like this.

    Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 14m
    Pro-indy GERS narrative has changed now the figures dramatically demonstrate the value of UK-wide pooling & sharing

  24. Les Wilson says:

    If we do get Indy, we are going to go through everything, then the Emperor truly will be seen with no clothes, and not a tosser either. Boy, won’t we enjoy rubbing it in. Especially into the EBC.


    Barorness Altman, ex Tory Pensions Minister, who made her millions in the private pensions market, warns that Pensioners face a dramatic cut in their state pensions in real terms if Scotland remain in the UK after Brexit.
    She argues that the triple lock pensions guarantee should be scrapped.
    There are fears that Pensioners’ Winter Fuel Allowance may also be scrapped making the average pension household between £200 and £400 per year worse off.
    Health watchdogs argue that deaths of frail infirm pensioners from hyperthermia and respiratory related illnesses could soar by many hundreds if this savage cut to pensioners’ incomes goes ahead.
    ‘God help our aged relatives next winter if it is as severe as last year’s.’ an insider from a leading Pensioner Charity blasted.
    A Labour Spokesman refused to confirm or deny whether Owen Smith would reinstate the Winter Fuel Allowance and Triple Lock on pension rates last night.
    ‘Difficult choices’ had to be made on spending cuts, a Lib Dem grouse shooter mused.

    A spokesperson for Theresa May’s Government refused to rule out that Philip Hammond’s autumn budget would scrap the Winter Fuel Allowance, or that there were plans to the triple lock safety mechanism for State Pensions.
    In other news, Ruth Davidson will say..
    See, anybody can write this shite. Even me, sorry I.

  26. Cuilean says:

    Ronnie anderson

    I agree. Why do SNP meekly accept GERS? Why are SNP not rebutting these figures vehemently?

    Why are SNP not asking the Treasury to do the same exercise in futility for England’s economy? Why is England so ‘powerful & strong’ with ‘broad shoulders’ and Scotland the 6 stone weakling who keeps getting sand kicked in its eyes?

    SNP really need to beef up here & come out fighting. SNP must rebut this annual GERS yoon fest for the utter sham it is.

  27. Ken500 says:

    UK ‘budget’ deficit is £19Billion. The black hole between budget forecasts of tax prediction to be raised and tax actually raised. Different from fiscal deficit £75Billion (+ black hole £19Billion) borrowed and spent in (the rest of the) UK. The £12Billion attributed as deficit in Scotland because of Westminster policies. The rest of the UK deficit £95Billion – £12Billion attributed to Scotland.

    Scottish deficit – Westminster policies = (approx) £4Billion on loan repayments Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend, £1Billion Trident, £1Billion could be saved on a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink, £3Billion tax evasion (whisky companies tax evade) £4Billion lost in Oil revenues (Oil sector taxed at 60/80% when Oil prices had fallen 75% (Osbourne) losing thousands of jobs. = Total £13Billion.

  28. heedtracker says:

    Kevrage also throws in his Project Fearing 2.0, no graphs but he hasn’t got the UKOK balls to actually say, if you don’t let England run Scotland, England wont trade with you and isn’t that very scary. It is good day to be a toryboy unionist, give them that much.

    Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 2h2 hours ago Gifford, Scotland
    … and that’s before you factor in other trade downsides of leaving the UK, the (roughly 4 times bigger) mirror to downsides of leaving EU

  29. Ken500 says:

    The Times once reported it more accurately and showed Scotland would be better off Independent.
    Independence is coming.

  30. Dr Jim says:

    I’ve still got the same money I had yesterday until I go to the shops to buy a loaf, then I’ll have less, is that a black hole
    If I count next paydays money I’ll be in surplus does that mean I’m not making good use of my money

    It’s too hard to keep up with all these really clever Scottish Yoon “Journalists” when they know so much about economics, it makes you wonder why they have no ambition to be politicians themselves

    (Last paragraph heavily laden sarcasm and Mbwahahah’s)

    Just been reading MSN comments from all these English folk who don’t live in Scotland talking about “Their” North Sea fishing grounds and how desirable they are to the EU so England can get any trade deal it wants

    When a Scottish person reminds them they’re actually Scottish waters they get all offensive and sensitive and become “British rule” again
    Another example of everything’s ours unless you Jocks want it then it’s worthless
    And they still think they’re not racist coz that only seems to apply if you’re offending black people, white racism is OK in Englands book

    The next person who describes the FM to me as Krankie I might lop the little Artful Dodgering Morris Dancers head clean off, but that’s just banter eh

    Better get that loaf now

  31. Ken500 says:

    The SNP repeatedly point out the GERS manipulation and how different policies would result in different fiscal management. Not sanctioning and starving the vulnerable, illegal wars etc.

    E.g. personal care, bus passes, nursery education, student support, no ‘bedroom tax’. Building roads, railways, bridges, hospitals and schools. Hopefully benefit sanctions lifted. Scotland pays (approx) £16Billion raised in Scotland for (UK gov) pensions/benefits.

  32. Capella says:

    The SNP have attacked the GERS figures. From 2006, Stuart Hosie:

    “The discredited GERS exercise tells us nothing about Scotland’s economic position either now, or under independence.”

    But without a sustained media campaign, any criticism simply gets lost in the daily barrage of misinformation.
    Social media seems to be the way to go.

  33. heedtracker says:

    Ouch. If you do something mad like ask planet toryboy why Scotland’s deficit is that much higher than England’s, when Scotland is run by England. No idea why this tory thinks it means…

    ((( Neil Lovatt ))) ?@neiledwardlovat 11m
    Blood and soil nat does not remotely understand concept of pooling and sharing.

  34. Robert Graham says:

    let me see if i am getting this right now
    UK projected deficit 19.1 Billion pounds population 59.6 million
    Scotland’s projected deficit 14.1 billion pounds population 5.4 million
    f/ck me we really have to cut down on takeaways and cakes ok lads take that coal off the fire and put a jumper on , oh i need to lie down i feel dizzy .

  35. heedtracker says:

    No messing from the SLibdems either. We’ve run up massive debt in your account but that doesn’t mean tory’s are shite at economics, it means you are.

    ((( Neil Lovatt ))) Retweeted
    Alan Smith ?@Political_AlanS 1h1 hour ago
    .@willie_rennie says the case for independence has been swallowed up by a £14bn black hole #GERS

  36. Proud Cybernat says:

    Ah – good old auntie. What would our news be like without her?

  37. Onwards says:

    These figures just show that the UK isn’t working for Scotland.
    When oil revenues were high, it masked the fact that Scotland is behind similar sized countries in Europe.
    Of course we didn’t get to use these revenues to set up an oil fund. The money was effectively pumped into London infrastructure.

    I always believed that Scotland’s economy is deliberately held back with the lack of powers needed to compete effectively. Devolution was hamstrung for a reason.
    Tory and Labour politicians would rather have Scotland perceived to be subsidised to dampen the demand for independence. UK policy has always been to focus power and wealth in London at the expense of everywhere else.

    When you think about it, Scotland should logically be the most prosperous part of the UK by far. We have half the land and sea area and natural resources, yet only 8.3% of the population. We have one of the highest educated workforces in the world. Yet so many still have to leave for better prospects. It is an absolute disgrace that large areas around our major cities are still condemned to poverty.

  38. Artyhetty says:

    Hopefully a big, bright, energy saving light bulb will switch on in some peoples heads and they will say, wait, eh, I thought they said we are better together so why did I vote to stay? That’s the ones who do care about what happens to their country and the people who live here, and not just how much their house is worth.

    Imagine just how bad things would be with labour, or the tories at the helm, a chilling thought indeed.

    More than 300 years shackled to london, and only the present Scotgov are keeping Scotland from being a wasteland, against massive odds as well.

  39. Colin Rippey says:

    Scotland’s onshore revenue grew by about 3.8%, surely that tells you that something is going right? The offshore revenue can only go up from this point on, and due to the cost cutting across the industry if the oil price does creep up then this will only increase the revenue.

    So it’s not all bad…

    (ducks for cover)

  40. Artyhetty says:


    And I hear that London is still being upgraded, my bro mentioned how so much building is going on there just last week. They were over from Sydney. I mentioned it was on the back of Scotland’s oil that london is so successful, he didn’t want to know that of course.

    Scotland, propping up a dysfunctional neighbour for far too long, time for change.

  41. galamcennalath says:

    Anything I have read about GERS and getting to the detail of the figures is … it’s very difficult. I get the impression that the Treasury, and others, make it impossible to get to the real breakdown.

    Barnett gives Scotland about 10% more to spend on health and education. That extra expenditure can’t explain the alleged difference in deficit. Do we, as individuals and companies, really pay so much less tax?

    I smell shite.

    As one example, I did read somewhere that almost 16% of UK capital depreciation is allocated to Scotland. Why? Therein, IMO, lies a hint as to what is going on. I suspect that all over the figures, excessive costs are slipped into the Scottish outgoings column.

    Similarly, I suspect some tax income is not being added to the Scottish income column.

    Yes, GERS is about now, not post Indy. That is a different issue. However, I look around Scotland, and just don’t see all this spending, nor the absence of non tax generating activity.

    It is most frustrating when you know there is something wrong with these figures but no one seems to be able to kick some big holes in them.

  42. heedtracker says:

    “These figures just show that the UK isn’t working for Scotland.
    When oil revenues were high, it masked the fact that Scotland is behind similar sized countries in Europe”

    Everything tory BBC led monstering of Scottish economic basket case needs to be questioned now.

    So what does this twit actually mean with his “natural” and “UK supporting a rural population” cringe? If his “a rural population” means Scotland, does it rural Scotland really run Scotland £15bn in to the red, is there something else going wildly UKOK wrong or is it just some creep’s idea of “natural” economics?

    ((( Neil Lovatt ))) ?@neiledwardlovat 1h1 hour ago
    This higher spend is nothing to apologise for and is a natural part the UK supporting a rural population.

  43. heedtracker says:

    Colin Rippey says:
    24 August, 2016 at 11:34 am
    Scotland’s onshore revenue grew by about 3.8%, surely that tells you that something is going right? The offshore revenue can only go up from this point on, and due to the cost cutting across the industry if the oil price does creep up then this will only increase the revenue.

    So it’s not all bad…

    (ducks for cover)

    While you’re here Kevin, can you tell us why Scotland has this £15bn black hole please?

    You can use your famous graphs of NO but stop grinding on about NOT Scots whisky taxation Kevin, just for one UKOK day!

  44. Colin Rippey says:

    Scotland’s net fiscal balance (exc north sea) in 2010-2011 was -15.9% GDP, for 2015-2016 it was -10.1% GDP. So there’s a solid downward trend in the size of the deficit.

    Scotland’s current budget balance (exc north sea) in 2010-2011 was -13.2% GDP, for 2015-2016 it was -8.6% GDP. Again, a solid downward trend in the size of the deficit.

    So it’s obvious that despite the Tory Austerity regime that Scotland’s onshore ecomony is doing pretty well?

    Sorry, forgot that these numbers are to be ignored at all cost!

  45. arthur thomson says:

    Who believes these figures and the sources from which they come? Those who choose to. And democracy requires that they must have the right to choose.

    We know that these figures are a deception perpetrated by those who have a vested interest in deceiving. We also know that they are being used by Dugdale, Davidson etc to deliberately deceive. What kind of low life are these people? How can anyone vote for them and their belief system? People like them I suppose. Scroungers who have a perception of the Scots as scroungers.

    Let’s not allow them and their GERS crap to spoil our day/week. Let’s not give another moment to analysing their crap – it’s all been done before. Let’s just call it out for the crap that it is, articulate our anger at our abusers and reinforce our determination to succeed.

  46. Proud Cybernat says:

    Government/Establishment Ripsoff Scotland

    GERS – all you really need to know:

  47. If Scotland´s finances are fucked in a Recession then the Union in fucked. If Scotland´s finances are fucked in a Boom then the Union is fucked. In short, if Scotland´s finances are fucked then the Union if fucked.

  48. Proud Cybernat says:

    Show us the Treasury’s Pink Papers, Mr Ripoff. ALL of them. Can’t get them? Won’t show us them?

    Why NOT?

  49. Effijy says:

    Let’s look at the oil revenue for a moment.
    You know that £3,000,000,000,000 (£Trillion) that England has gathered from Scotland’s Oil.

    Norway, with similar population to Scotland, with oil found in the same sea at around the same time, has set up an oil fund of $600,000,000 ($Billion) for times when the price of oil slips or even one day runs out.

    Well Scotland, thanks to Westminster stealing and abusing this money, not only has £$ ZERO in any sort of fund, but has managed to put the UK in £1,650,000,000,000 (£Trillion) of debt.

    That tell me all that I need to know from figures.
    Scotland should be the 3rd wealthiest nation by GDP, but England have ensured that we useless, hopeless, a charity case.

    Time for independence from England.

  50. Effijy says:

    OK Scotland can save £2 Billion by not paying for USA weapons on mass destruction on our soil, we get the £Billions of Tax Revenue from Whisky shipped out of England, we don’t have to pay for the House of Lords parasites,
    we don’t have to pay the BBC Tax, we claim back Scotland’s fishing rights that England gave to the EU, etc.

    So there we are No debt whatsoever in Scotland within 5 years
    England, in debt until your grand children die of old age.

    Independent Scotland for me then!

  51. JLT says:

    For the oil, I wonder what happend to ‘…only the broad shoulders of the UK’ would protect this industry?

    Aye …it’s ‘Scotland’s oil’ in the lean years…

  52. heedtracker says:

    That tell me all that I need to know from figures.
    Scotland should be the 3rd wealthiest nation by GDP, but England have ensured that we useless, hopeless, a charity case.

    Time for independence from England.

    Actually the Labour PFI bill is now running at a totals of over £300bn. That’s also the UK’s take on not Scots oil and gas so far. Much of Labour’s PFI £300bn is flowing into offshore tax havens, minute by UKOK minute.

    How many SLab PFI schools are falling down?

  53. From all the papers, from the Telly, from the radio the message comes loud and clear. Scotland is doomed…best to stay with the union. Morning, noon and night, Scotland is to stay with the union.

  54. Capella says:

    From January 2007, £400m error in the GERS figures uncovered by the Cuthberts. Only one of many errors they have detailed.
    Scottish Executive economists have admitted that the level of public spending may have been over-estimated by more than £400m.

    Committee convener Wendy Alexander said it was a fitting day to be discussing the issue.

    “I think it would be hard to think of a more appropriate day than the 300th anniversary of the Act of Union for the Scottish Parliament to be debating the essential character of the current financial relationship between Scotland and the rest of the UK,” she said.

    Scottish National Party finance spokesman John Swinney said: “The revelations this morning by senior executive civil servants blows a hole in Labour’s scaremongering attempts to mislead the Scottish people about our real fiscal position.

    “While the SNP have long argued that GERS is an inaccurate, politically motivated exercise, the evidence heard in parliament this morning now completely confirms our case. The SNP believe in a successful Scotland, while Labour just want to hold the economy back.”

  55. yesindyref2 says:

    That’s very unfair Rev. Unionists all over the place have been expressing their delight that Scotland’s illustrative deficit actually DROPPED 0.2% points in spite of all their wild predictions. And dropped £0.1 billion, that’s £100 million smackeroonies.

    Those Unionist agitators are all over the internet expressing their satisfaction that Scotland is turing itself around and going on to better things.

    Oh, slap, wait, eh? wassup, where am I? They’re not. Now THERE’s a surprise.

    On a more serious note isn’t it great that the long-awaited doom and gloom GERS is out of the way so we can get on with the late summer campaign for Indy.

  56. Hamish100 says:

    BBC Scotland Radio,
    John Beatties 5 mins ago. The stats are produced by the Scottish Government.

    Just for once Scots Government- can we have a spokesman/women who will challenge properly the BBC bias etc.. with no pussyfooting. Yip again we are £15 billion in debt.

    How I wish Scotland didn’t have oil, gas, renewable energy, farming, forestry, fishing, IT, Financial services…….people

    Now onto bbc scotlandshire important issues — baking. Is there some BBC programme being plugged? OF COURSE THERE IS –jb – is the GBBAKE off on tonight? He knows the answer. Now onto a Mr Morton who was on a past programme son of a BBC radio presenter of old. NEpotism in the BBC . don’t BE SILLY BIAS in the BBC don’t be silly.

  57. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bill says: 24 August, 2016 at 10:14 am:

    ” … But this site

    says 19.1 bn for entire UK.
    Yet Scotand is 12.6 bn.
    Don’t get it.

    Of course you don’t get it, Bill. It’s the Westminster Treasury that gets it.

  58. yesindyref2 says:

    @Colin Rippey
    Who are you and what did you do with the real Colin / Kevin / Fraser / Brian?

    Yes, onshore growth is more important than the oil revenues, because, as we know, oil is volatile.

    The GERS deficit figures actually show that without considering oil revenues, Scotland deficit dropped by £1.8 billion since last year.

  59. DerekM says:

    Oh look Scotland your a basket case again broad shoulders pooling and sharing UKOK will rescue you from a terrible fate of being the richest country in Europe.

    God bless them with all that cash we might have got above ourselves and tried to bring world peace,tackle poverty,invent the renewable clean energy industry or something horrible like that.

    Never mind big new nuke bombs and foodbanks instead wave those butcher aprons.

  60. Hamish100 says:

    Agree with the posts re attacking the BBC and media bias that the SNP government are too passive.
    From the YES campaign onwards the news media savies or luvies didn’t want to attack the news media (they were all pals after all). NS seems to be to passive on this.

    Lets get one thing clear the news media in Scotland owned by foreign interests will NOT support independence. Likewise the state broadcaster. Attack is the best form of defence. Being touchy feely and hoping for the best has not worked. With brexit we have an opportunity through web sites like this to put the alternative view.

  61. RobQos says:

    On radio scotland this morning at around 8.15 they said North Sea oil was not worth anything. No mention of the 200,000 odd jobs it supports with about 40% of them in England. Or the taxes the service industry generates.

  62. ANN says:

    Tongue in cheek, I think we need to pay a good “Independent” Accountant to look at the Westminster Books.

  63. Michael McCabe says:

    I am sick of this GERS Crap every year. So I have decided to pay of the Deficit. Has Anyone got change of a Zonk.

  64. Jas says:

    So then Colin Rippey, let’s just say that these figures are fact and not works of fiction. What matters then, is that an independent Scotland will need a bit of time to put things right, to undo all the dysfunctional damage that Westminster administrations have reaped, decade upon decade.

    Then you have to factor in the fact that an iScotland won’t be the outdated, moral basket-case that England now chooses to be: anti-Europe, pro-WMD, Royals/House of Lords, illegal wars/ military interventionism/ right-wing governments and media …

    My hope is that my kids and their kids will one day live safely in a small, humble, yet fair and just country.

    That is not very much to ask, is it?

  65. louis.b.argyll says:

    Re the latest figures..a greed index.
    I don’t just want independence for short-term economic gain.
    I want independence to allow us to celebtate our interdependence on eachother, thereby creating real valued business in a kinder, more imaginative, fairer nation.

    Economic success follows.

  66. Tinto Chiel says:

    Ah, GERS, the annual Unionist Smoke’n’MirrorsFest.

    A calamitous £15 billion deficit is much worse than a £1.6 trillion debt, right?


    Sorry, I’m not very good with figures…..

    Is it Armageddon tomorrow?

  67. Effijy says:

    Talking about the incessant BBC Biased propaganda machine,
    the petition for a public inquiry into their corrupt operation is just about to sing up No 90,450.

  68. heedtracker says:

    Graun piles on. You just have to keep asking why Scotland is in so much debt, when its run by its neighbour that has extracted Scotland’s resources for decades now, and left us debt ridden, broke, and its all our own fault

    Severin McSpanner style Dugdale quotes

    “During the independence referendum Nicola Sturgeon personally promised a second oil boom. Her own government’s figures show she misled people and that is unforgivable.”

    Did she?

    “David Mundell, the Scottish secretary, said: “Scotland weathered a dramatic slump in oil revenues last year because we are part of a United Kingdom that has at its heart a system for pooling and sharing resources across the country as a whole.”

    How can Scotland weather a slump in oil revenues, if they all flowed straight to England for decades?

    And on it goes. Nice example of British attack propaganda in Scotland, for historians.

  69. Proud Cybernat says:

    “I think we need to pay a good “Independent” Accountant to look at the Westminster Books.”

    Getting information (Pink Papers) from HM Treasury about Scotland’s economy is like pulling teeth while wearing a gumshield and with both your arms in a stookie. It took Salmond years to get this far:

  70. galamcennalath says:

    EBC say “Scotland’s public expenditure 2015-16
    Total spend
    £23.6bn Social protection
    £12.2bn Health
    £7.9bn Education
    £2.8bn Policing”

    Those items add up to £44.5bn.

    I believe Scotland’s contributions to defence and debt are ~ £3.5bn & £4.0bn

    That leaves £16.6bn spend allocated to Scotland. Genuine question because I can’t see a breakdown … what is included in that? Anyone found further figures anywhere?

    Also, if the SG budget is ~£33bn, is GERS telling us WM spends more in Scotland than SG?

  71. DerekM says:

    The SNP cant win if they go out on the attack they get the right wing press screaming press freedom no fair boohoo evil nat nazi communist one party bully boy state as we have just witnessed from the yoon special zoomer brigade(hi colin).

    Best to leave that job to us here in the yes movement the Rev does a fair job of trashing it all sometimes even before they can get their monkeys scribbling away lmao

  72. liz says:

    I HATE the UK

  73. Liz g says:

    So we pooled and shared fur the last 2 year’s instead of managing ourselves and things got worse?
    Well who knew!!!!!

  74. clan rossy says:

    15 billion i do not care if it was
    15 trillion .

    i would rather be free and poor than be subservient
    to anyone . time to get rid of the shackles .

  75. Macart says:

    @Yesindyref2 12.49

    Yer a bad man. 😀

  76. Proud Cybernat says:

    “That leaves £16.6bn spend allocated to Scotland. Genuine question because I can’t see a breakdown … what is included in that?”

    Former MP, Jim Murphy’s expenses. I’m told you could even see them from the moon.

  77. galamcennalath says:

    When I was a kid it was considered humorous that most English folks couldn’t pronounce words ending -och.

    In the last few years I have heard more and more Scots, not posh but with broad accents, saying -okk instead of -och.

    Seems prevalent among the young especially. But also older people who must have made a change.

    What is this? Where did it come from? Why?

    Given everything else that goes on, I propose it must be part of a WM conspiracy to Anglicise us all.

    Bring back the OCH! Make Scotland Scottish again! 😉

  78. Dr Jim says:

    The BBC Unionist and Media Party

    It’s the only wee chance they get to combine with the Sectarianists and the Bigots and the Loyalists to jump up and down waving their arms in the air and shouting “Look Look”
    at their set of makey uppy numbers that any schoolkid with a box of crayons could make up just as easily

    And they all leave out the part where even their silly figures show that the drop in oil revenues made not one jot of a difference to anything
    And they leave out the part that clearly demonstrates that the UK government has total and complete control over the macro economy thereby leaving as little as possible wriggle room for the Scottish government to grow the economy, but despite that lack of room the SNP have done just that by increasing the onshore economy so much they actually negated the drop in oil revenues and Scotland is in an actual better financial position than it was in 2014 when the opposition claimed without oil revenues Scotland could not survive without UK subsidy

    When in fact the Barnet formula has been cut substantially since 2014
    So with all their posturing and bluster that may well fool the casual observer or partisan opposition idiot they’ve actually made the case for Independence ever more strongly

    I seem to remember the 15billion black hole stuff two years ago, so if unless they’re arguing with their own UK figures it’s down to 14.2 billion now and that’s against a backdrop of total economic mishandling by George Osborne and co
    Just think what we’ll NOT have to pay for when we’re Independent, eh Northern Ireland, Wales, Nukes, Empty aircraft carriers, hundreds of thousands of civil servants,
    The House of Lords, The House of Commons and it’s refurbishment of billions, percentages of Englandshires infrastructure projects that we’re told benefit Scotland

    But the big one they don’t want to tell us about is England has a bigger deficit than any other european country and yet they’re in the EU but they tell us our deficit’s too big so the EU won’t let us in
    Now that can only be Yoon Logic it’s certainly not the EUs because all the information shows the EU are ready and willing to have Scotland as a continuing member state and they’re becoming impatient with Englandshires prevarication over the issue of Buggering off

    So it’s a well done to the SNP from me and up yours UK BBC

  79. carjamtic says:

    We all realise,that we are being fooled,this information,’the books’ is incorrect,incomplete,it is not the full story.

    Westminster (who are the working for the best interests of the elite 1%),will never release the correct information,they have invested a lot of time and money,in making it so,in effect they,have built in ‘firewalls’ to only allow access,to the information,that they want you to have.

    Yes they mean us no harm,best stay with us,we will look after you,look at those scary numbers,too wee,too stupid,too poor and the SNP is Baaad,yes they have worked hard to make it this way,were even the messenger gets shot….very clever,in fact some might say they are evil geniuses.

    And yet,strangely it is an admission of the own incompetence,too busy looking after number one,too busy trying to maintain the status quo,too busy encrypting the accounts,however there is one fundamental error,these figures if they are to be believed,are saying the UK is not OK,after years of financial mis-management and corruption,they are admitting the UKOK candle has been blown out by the non discriminatory economic winds (assisted by….themselves….Brexit !).

    Do I trust Westminster…..NO….will the voters in Scotland realise they are being fooled by the 1%,that,what is in the interests of the 1% is not the voters interests,YES,I think we know and we also know that an alternative world is possible,

    There are two outcomes for Scotland,do nothing and continue watching as the 1% send their children to the expensive schools,while they hide in their gated communities or change it,narrow the gap between the haves and the have nots.

    Do I trust the SNP….YES….they have earned my trust,even in the publishing of these figures,knowing it would kick off the annual shrilling of opposition parties (similiar to the Indyref2,dog whistles,shrieking).

    I could claim the tories are infringing on my human rights,which are not just about civil rights but economic rights as well,but I won’t,I simply conclude that on ALL known data,I trust the Scottish Government to put the best interests of the people of Scotland first and Westminster to put the 1% first.

    For me it is a no-brainer,it is time to end this absurd arrangement,the candle of hope still flickers.

  80. Craig P says:

    Galamcenlath – I would love to see a breakdown of WM’s figures for Scotland’s expenditure too. It would be good to know how much of it is actually spent in Scotland. Or if it is just an accounting trick like the BBC calling Question Time as Scottish expenditure.

  81. Gary45% says:

    The only black hole the Yoons are interested in is the hole in the middle of a doughnut.
    If you hear any Brit Nat yoon criticising these figures, just say to them, Scotland more than pays its way in the Dis-United Empire, then ask them to prove you wrong.

    Gurny Burd should be a riot on Shortbread tonight, no doubt Ruthie Jong Un will get max airtime to basically spout SHI*E along with Autonomous Deadwood.
    “And they still don’t get it.”

    Indy Ref2 AYE

  82. MJack says:

    How can we NOT be making any money from taxing the oil industry? What kind of miss-management is this?

  83. Arbroath1320 says:

    Looks to me that they had a trainee use the BBC calculator first time round here. 🙂

  84. Gary45% says:

    Mis-management, another name for Westminster.

  85. Maria F says:

    The Unionists can shout at the top of their lungs and claim as much deficit for Scotland as they like because the only thing they are doing is showing how detrimental for Scotland to remain in this Union actually is.

    For as long as Scotland is not an independent country and doesn’t have full control over its affairs, its resources in full, its economy in full, immigration in full, taxation in full, borrowing and investment in full there will be only one government in this union to blame for the incompetence of generating such a deficit, and that is Westminster.

    So every new billion of deficit that the unionists throw at Scotland gives us another billion of reasons as to why Scotland should leave this union.

    Messrs Unionists, are you that itching to blame Scotland for a high deficit and poor economy management?

    Sorry sunshines, but you are going to have to wait for Scotland to become independent, because until then it is the result of your beloved Westminster mismanagement of the finances and incompetence what has caused it. But hey!! Thanks a bunch for making us aware of the awful damage that these people in Westminster are doing to our economy, it is much appreciated as it helps with our cause.

    But please don’t let us spoil your fun. Please continue shouting and pouring the damning figures all over the press and internet: that will teach those arrogant incompetents at Westminster a lesson or two!!

  86. Andy smith says:

    Liz @1:49,. Me too !

  87. ben madigan says:

    @ carjamtic who wrote ” Do I trust Westminster…..NO”

    You do well Carjamtic – Don’t take your eyes off Westminster. Despite the GERS distraction Scotland should keep watching Brexit because the only outcomes are a “hard”or a “soft” Brexit and the “hard” Brexit means disaster for Scotland and Ireland – not that that would worry Westminster

  88. mike d says:

    Agree with ann at’s about time we had international auditors /accountants in to expose the big lie of all this gers propaganda.

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