Anarchy in the rUK
Posted on
March 24, 2019 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Well, hopefully there won’t be too much of that, as we’ve got a sitter in to keep the Separats in check while we’re away. But activity on Wings will probably be a little sparse over the next few days, for hopefully-obvious reasons.
There’s a limit on how much we’ll be able to say about the case, and chances to post on the site will be restricted in general, but we’ll try to keep on top of any important events. Normal service will be resumed ASAP. In the meantime, behave yourselves.
@Cubby says: 25 March, 2019 at 9:36 pm:
” … Jon Snow C4 tonight in an interview with Blackford about the People’s Vote.
“The people have no place in the constitution.” Said Snow with 100 % certainty.”
Aye! Cubby, you have the right of it. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been arguing that one with unionists.
Now i have the capacity to keep a very straight face. So I innocently ask them this question as of my memory had deserted me, “Aye but! what’s that agreement thing that constituted the United Kingdom – you know that treaty thing?
They rarely get the form of words I used and in their usual superior manner condescendingly say something like, “Do you mean the Treaty of Union”, and I’ve got them.
“Aye! That’s it right enough, the written treaty that constituted the union is the Written Constitution of the United Kingdom. Didn’t you just say the United Kingdom hasn’t got a written constitution?
I mean, what can they say after that? They have just blown it.
Robert Peffers at 9.41pm.
Thanks for the detail.
An aspect I am not very good at!
Right they’ve voted and won the house taking over the indicative vote process, so another defeat for May, 27 majority.
Guardian live feed .. “May suffers fresh Brexit defeat as MPs opt to take control of indicative votes process by majority of 27
MPs has backed the Letwin amendment by 329 votes to 302 – a majority of 27. “
So, what is the 302 who opposed this actually want to happen? They want to leave May in control?
@ Cubby
The history of the UK is rewritten as required and morphs in and out of English history because it’s seen as one and the same
You’ll have noticed (although many won’t have) that Scottish and Welsh history is more of an amusement to the people who have written the other stuff
Take a look at recent UK war history on film for example, like American *history* it’s full of derring do and heroic victories and individual sacrifices for the greater good in totally impossible scenarios, and they did (fact) win everything always against ridiculously overwhelming odds
The Battle of Britain is one I’m particularly fond of where brave posh Englishmen took to the skies and did for the nasty enemy, there’s never a mention of the fact that those particular skies over England were actually protected by Polish pilots Canadian pilots Scottish pilots and even Australians and probably other nationalities as well, but that would interfere with *history* being written in the way the victors always like to portray themselves
Scottish history well that’s a thing to be ridiculed filled to the gunnels with crackpots quirks and drunks in the same way the Irish and the Welsh are written about, except when they write about King Arthur who they adopted because it’s such a good story it’s been Englified to fit
Look at the criticism of Braveheart the most dissected movie of all time in order to belittle it, it’s only a movie but the Union of England became obsessed by its chronology and bending of the story and yet they never ever do that to their own warry films most of which are total nonsense and factually just as ridiculous as John Wayne taming the west and beating the Vietnamese and German armies all by himself while he was discovering oil or gold in the Klondyke
And you know what I bet most of the people who voted leave believe English history is all real
God save the Editor
Pretty much gala, they want her and Tories to stay in control of the ‘entire’ process.
Dr Jim aye the thing about King Arthur that amuses me, is that if he existed he was fighting against the Anglo Saxon (English ) invasion of Briton and yet they have taken him as t heir hero. they just dont like getting reminded that they were amongst the first illegal immigrants into the British Isles.
So May has lost another 3 Ministers tonight in order that they could vote for the Letwin amendment giving parliament control of business on Wednesday so as they can have “indicative votes”
The government lost by 329-302 which according to general opinion was supposed to be much closer. This is suffering death by a thousand cuts. Very painful even to watch.
Here’s some more legal theory and stuff that I think relevant.
link to jeanmonnetprogram.org
Locking in Democracy: Constitutions, Commitment, and International Law
link to chicagounbound.uchicago.edu
Summary: Constitutionalization in International Law
link to mpil.de
National Identity, Constitutional Identity, and Sovereignty in the EU
link to bjutijdschriften.nl
3 Tory ministers have resigned so far, apparently because they voted for the Letwin amendment. Ho hum.
Didn’t see yours before I posted Thpnr 🙂
Joanna Cherry is on this F amendment now being voted on.
F. Other plan to block no deal
More technically prescriptive than amendment C, this says that if the UK is seven calendar days from leaving without a deal, the house should be recalled to consider a motion on whether or not MPs approve such a move.
3 votes in it…May’s gov won that one.
Petition – Edinburgh North and Leith (not West as I said earlier) leading both 2 London ones by 0.16% now – 177 sigs. Ian Murray better get out on the streets, he’s nearly 2% behind now!
5,638,052 signatures – keep them coming!
K1 says:
Astonishing how most Tories seem to be able to vote to retain power … but are then totally incapable of making a decision on how it should be used.
They are united behind their party.
However they are irreconcilably split over Brexit. One group won’t entertain a ‘no deal’, while another group won’t entertain anything at the soft end of the solutions spectrum.
There seems no middle ground, no compromise. Yet they unite to retain that ridiculous position.
History will not look kindly upon them.
Ian Blackford to Mayhem tonight: “If this Prime Minister is telling the people of Scotland our votes don’t count when we voted to remain well, we know what the answer is.
“The day is coming when the people of Scotland will vote for independence and Scotland will be an independent country in the European Union.”
There’s that SNP default position again – the sovereign will of the Scottish people front and centre of the game plan.
Kinda bursts the balloon of those independence ‘supporters’ so puffed up with their own importance that they cannot – or refuse to – see their actions only serve to succour our adversaries.
And that’s the benign interpretation.
Lenny Hartley
I (flag in hand) claim this land, Ooops! hold on boss there are people here
Kill them
And history gets written, they’ve got some nerve though eh, look at the Moon they never considered for a second that somebody else might own that and if they did being in space and all were probably a hell of a lot more mighty than them and might get pissed off at somebody turning up with a flag and claiming ownership and might have gone full Alien invasion on us
These are the people who tell us Scots we’re obsessed with flags
Bad mentality man, just bad, and they spread it about like
I can’t believe they’re not nutters
The present doesn’t look kindly upon them either gala.
I’m awa tae bed. I’ll give you a wee laugh before I go. So, with the help of my stepson we assembled the new electric assisted trike. The idea being to try and get my fitness back again.
Now it really wasn’t too hard to assemble but some of the setting up was a bit challenging. Mainly because the instructions were deliberately vague. They wanted the customers to pay their local agents to do the job. The derailleur gears were a bit challenging as neither of us had done much cycling for years so had forgotten how.
Anyway we assembled the machine but it was raining outside so we just had back of the trike on axle stands and set up the gears which operate on the rear wheels.
To check the electric assist I held up the front wheel, driven by a hub motor, and the step-son operated the controls. The motor ran and we though everything was fine.
So this AM I got the trike out for a test drive and first of all took a peddle, with no electric help, along the main road, through the nearby housing scheme and then down a bit of a hill to the Lochore Meadows Country park. Everything went well and to my surprise I found it not too hard to do.
So now we come to the hill up from the Meadows Car Park and I though to myself this is where I try the electric help and I turned it on.
I nearly killed myself trying to peddle the damned thing but struggled. There is also a throttle like thing so I thought to try that.
Only to find myself reversing very, very quickly – and the reason I was having problems dawned on me.
The bloody front wheel with the electric motor on it was back to front and instead of assisting me it was trying to go backward as I was trying to peddle forwards.
So you’d never guess the reason. The stepson had asked, “does the cable for the motor go on the Left”? I replied, “Right”, meaning it goes on the right. so he put it on the left.
Monty python hasn’t got a look in. Sheesh.
Main motion passed, basically strengthens the Letwin amendment…Tories ain’t happy…at all.
27 majority again.
Ian Blackford is turning into a real statesman working amongst a bunch of clowns in Westminster.
All going mental now in the HoC, right wing Tories attacking Bercow for all they’re worth LOL. I think they’ve lost the plot.
Blackford: “Because if our votes don’t count, then frankly, we may as well just go home.”
Tories: “Go home”.
They have the brains of a peanut.
Pavlov would be delighted 🙂
Woof!
MPs vote 329-302 to take control of the Brexit process.
SNP’s Joanna Cherry to Newsnight’s Emily Matliss: ‘The position of the Scottish National Party is that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Union. Our policy is to revoke Article 50 or if not that support a second EU referendum.
Asked about Customs union/SM,Cherry said: “These options are not seriously on the table.”
Rumoured the ERG will now back Mrs May’s deal because a no deal Brexit is now impossible and could lead to ? union.. They do not want to chance eldctions
DUP will be sold out over N Ireland.
I reckon MPs will now use their indicative votes to demand more unachievable outcomes. More unicorns.
@Cubby
Agreed. We have some very good MPs in Westminster now. And Ian is a good leader and spokesmen certainly giving good forceful feedback questions to TM at PMQs.
When Ian’s question to her, this afternoon, finished with “that Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU and will go for Independence within Europe” she retorted back (for the umpteenth time) – Scotland voted in 2014 to remain part of the UK. Ian said during her reply “give it a rest”.
TM is so thick to understand that 2014 was nearly 5 years ago and a lot has changed in that time including the views of a majority of Scots who now want Independence.
Like Brexit she is flogging a dead horse by stating the people of Scotland voted to remain in 2014. As we all know the people of Scotland have moved away further from this position today.
Never thought CU and SM were seriously on the table so Joanna calling it like it is. If they were then the Tory gov would have sought this option out over 2 years ago when the SNP brought forward ‘our’ compromise.
This is now a ‘whittling down’ process, which leaves us…with either revocation of A50 or May’s deal with a confirmatory ‘people’s vote’, which Tories definitely don’t want.
The only other option left for the hard Ukexiteers is ERG supporting May’s deal now if they can get the DUP back on board…of course they will, and as you say Bob it will destroy the DUP.
They are losing control of the process and therefore the whole ‘withdrawal deal’ is now under serious threat.
And if they do get her deal through…then that’s a hard UKexit right there.
*stands by lifeboats gazing out at heaven*
Bob mack
the crazy thing is that the DUP held out for a ‘no deal’ as they kept saying it was the best plan for N. Ireland as it would ensure the Union was treated the same across all nations and they said it would mean NO hard border between North and South ( not sure they were right about that?)
However all the news tonight is saying that N. Ireland is not ready for NO deal and can never be ready for no deal as the Civil servants do not have the necessary power to legislate for any emergency measures to make provisions for a No deal exit and since Stormont is not sitting it seems the only solution could be for WM to legislate for N. Ireland.
Taking back control huh?
@TheItalianJob
Yes, I totally agree with you there. It’s been VERY noticeable in recent months how the SNP when given the opportunity have upped the verbal attacks against their attackers!
They’re not for lying down and are making the same point over and over again. “Scotland will NOT be dragged out of the European Union against her will”.
This hasn’t gone unnoticed by the likes of us that pay attention but also by the media and the EU leaders that matter and are watching events unfold, no doubt with their mouths hanging open in disbelief.
We’re getting there, the only lot that have made any sense at all in the last 3 years have been the SNP and now that is becoming clear even to Corbyn and dare I say it May and her cabinet too.
You know how bad it is when Cash (big Tory UKexiteer);
‘says that what has been agreed by the Commons is “a constitutional revolution” and that the house will will live to regret it.’
Robert Peffers says: 25 March, 2019 at 10:43 pm
“I’m awa tae bed. I’ll give you a wee laugh before I go. …”
Liked it! But!
New ebike here as well – due to heart surgery – and the bike is great. I deliberately used the local shop for the long-standing reason that without trade he would have to shut and nearest bike shop would then be a very long way away. Use it / lose it applies in spades here where the population is so small.
Liked your story.
@galamcennalath
I think you’re being a bit too pessimistic, there is no more road to kick the can down and most MP’s will know that. The time for Unicorns is over and it now gets serious and down to business. that’s what happened tonight and will happen Wednesday.
“Tonight could be the official start of a journey to a softer Brexit led by a majority in Parliament, Brexiteers beginning to back down in earnest, or the start of the next stage of a standoff between the government and Parliament that could only end with a ‘democratic event’ – code in Whitehall for what you and me would normally call an election.”
link to archive.fo
Surely the EU is only playing brinkmanship and will back down any day now. Isn’t that what the Tory grandees told us?
New government figures, released just over a year since the e-petition website was launched, show 12 people every minute are signing up.
In its first year, a total of 36,000 petitions were submitted, attracting 6.4 million signatures.
It no seems likely that one single petition to revoke Article 50 will accumulate more than the 6.4 million signatures gathered by all 36,000 previous e-petitions.
Current figure and rising rapidly 5,650,000 plus.
Still the Tories and Westminster refuse to listen?
@Capella
🙂
Dr Jim – ‘Bad mentality man, just bad, and they spread it about like I can’t believe they’re not nutters.]
I do love you. 🙂
Alex Cole Hamilton Lib Dem list MSP claims he has an anti cybernat alarm to keep him safe from all us terrible SNP types who are constantly harrassing him
Mr Cole Hamilton tweeted that and was retweeted from his Orange Lodge pal’s account Big Sam who claims to be British and proud and Gers till he dies and F the SNP and various remarks about someone called Krankie accompanied by much abuse
Remember folks Alex Cole Hamilton wears a suit when he behaves like this so that makes him legitimate
I on the other hand haven’t owned a suit for a number of years nor do I intend to purchase one to legitimise my insults to people like Alex Cole Hamilton Lib Dem List MSP whose wages I pay in order for him to insult the FM who never insults him, so I’ll do it for her
Alex Cole Hamilton Lib Dem List MSP is a greetin faced wee Dweeb who tells lies
@ TJenny
I’m utterly nutterly
To Mr Campbell, should he read this.
Any chance of a decent-sized Scottish poll on Indyref / Brexit / Westminster / Holyrood?
I have a feeling that voting intention might have blipped a little this week.
Cheers!
“Ms Dugdale is expected to give evidence on Tuesday, while the court heard that David Mundell had invoked parliamentary privilege and would not be appearing.”
Mundell, knowing he is rubbish at lying convincingly, decides to protect himself from public scrutiny, for fear he might trip himself up.
David Mundell must be a candidate for the title ‘most loathed’ in Scotland.
@manandboy
“David Mundell had invoked parliamentary privilege and would not be appearing.”
Do you have a link for that?
I wonder what he’s reluctant to appear as a witness for Kezia Dugdale.
Thepnr @ 12.24
I don’t have a link Alex,but I was in the Court and Dugdales Lawyer definitely told the Sheriff he wasn’t appearing!
Oh and it was Parliamentary Privilege he used
Thepnr
Have you checked up on the new Scottish Constitution – a few surprises in there and it’s all beginning to fall into place.
TheItalianJob@11.12pm
Good post but I would also add that he is extremely effective during the MSM news interviews. I always thought Angus Robertson would be a hard act to follow but he has done a great job. Excellent choice by the SNP MP’s at Westminster.
thepnr
link to bbc.co.uk
Having a quick glance through Stu’s Tweets above it would seem that the Judean People’s Front element of the Yes movement have declared Wings the wrong sort of Yes.
The thing is I have no idea who these people are or what they purport to have done for Yes other than be “right on” about fringe issues that few understand and even fewer care about. However, I do think it somewhat ironic that Stu is accused of homophobia but is then castigated for backing lesbian activists for defending hard fought for women’s rights. I’m sorry but I’m not punching a terf* in the froat for anyone or any cause.
* One of these days I will find out what that stands for….but not this day.
In the meantime it is Stu that is deconstructing the Unionist media and Unionist arguments rather than spending time on student politics navel gazing. If these other bloggers were half as useful then perhaps they would become the most read Indy politics blog.
Good luck Mr Campbell at the court case this week.
@Liz g
Surprising that you need to use Parliamentary Privilege as of course you or I couldn’t use that. We’d have to appear or would be threatened with loss of liberty!
@Meg merrilees
I haven’t yet, I did look about a week ago and had a brief read when it was sent to Holyrood. Nothing since from me as too much to take in with everything else that’s going on and I didn’t really want to have to think about.
I’ll be honest my first impressions weren’t great for whatever reasons so I know for sure I need to give it proper consideration and I haven’t.
@Thepnr
link to bbc.co.uk
Robert Peffers@10.43pm
Good story. Keep them coming.
If a Britnat tells you to get on your bike Peffers then that is now not a problem.
K1 @ 23:21,
These characters don’t seem to have the faintest clue about constitutional matters, not even purely-English ones. It’s as if the 17th C never happened, Parliament never had a wee war, executed a king, kicked out another and wrested preeminence over the executive.
There was another idiot Tory declaiming on telly at the weekend, “how dare Parliament defy the PM, who was elected to do a job?”. Duh. The PM is only there because s/he is chosen by MPs, who are actually the ones elected to do a job.
The current lot of MPs may themselves be clueless about Brexshit, but that’s their constitutional privilege. Their fundamental problem is that they are elected by a system that was crocked and outmoded 50 years ago, where a minority vote can dominate without hindrance, and both main parties exploited it to form a cosy cartel that couldn’t be shifted. Except now it’s fossilised beyond repair.
I pity the English. We at least have an obvious way out.
@manandboy
I read that article today yet missed the very last sentence. Thanks for putting me right as others have done too.
@Meg merrilees
I wasn’t impressed either, far too long, too much detail which might need changing without changing a constitution, and some party policies in it as well. Removes the greatest ability of a small state – to adapt quickly to changing circumstances.
I’d prefer something along the lines of the Lisbon Treaty but shorter, then referring to annexes and / or protocols which can be adapted without having to change the Constitution itself.
PS Not surprised Mundell is not appearing. He has nothing to gain from being part of Kezia’s car crash and given the trials and tribulations in Westminster probably doesn’t have a hall pass from May to be absent.
So parliamentary privilege trumps the law, how very democratic, not.
He shouldn’t be allowed pp as an excuse to be exempted as a witness in a civil case. What, though if it was a murder case. Would pp still be an acceptable excuse to exempt him from appearing?
@yesindyref2
I’m absolutely in support of a Scottish constitution, once we become Independent. No harm in academic types considering all kinds of options but like you keep it as simple as possible.
Make it “century proof” though in that no matter how the nation evolves because of technological changes or political changes the constitution should be strong enough to withstand that.
A bit like how the Ten Commandments have served the Christian religion for 2000 years as a constitution.
Newsnight tonight.
After the conclusion of J. Cherry’s interview Dominic Lawson calls her a hypocrite for calling for Article 50 to be revoked – “astonishing hypocrisy”. Totally ignoring the fact that Scotland voted against leaving the EU.
This is the man who wanted to leave the EU to take back control to parliament now protesting against parliament taking back control in tonight’s vote. What he really means by taking back control is the right wing Brexiteer nutjobs taking control.
HandandShrimp
I’m not meaning to be pushy but this is what has brought us to this case. An ignorance over the fundamental significance of sex classes grounded in biology, and an indifference over women’s rights.
I am what radical trans activists would call a TERF (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist). Radical because I acknowledge biology and I’m critical of the interaction of race, gender and class. Exclusionary because I wont embrace radical science as my foundational explanation of reality. It is a derisory slur intended to exclude those fighting for women’s rights. It is the language used by totalitarians to support illiberal ideology and institutional misogyny.
Thepnr @ 01:05,
Likewise. The intention was honourable, but the abject thing they have produced is a nightmare. (“A camel is a horse designed by a committee”, as the saying goes. Not true, but still, makes the point. This one seems to have been created by mail-in wish-list, a thousand times worse! =laugh=)
Grundgesetz, foundational law. This is a situation where less is definitely more, not only in terms of implementability and legal utility, but also of clarity. The least necessary to guarantee citizens’ rights, and (most importantly) understandable by all.
The US managed the job with just 7 articles and 27 amendments to date, and even they got into a mess sometimes by being tempted to graft-in political aims, viz. the notorious 2nd Amendment (bearing arms) and the 18th Amendment (alcohol prohibition), the latter being the only one mercifully repealed in its entirety by a later one (27th).
And nota bene: they did it after independence, not as a bureaucratic stumbling-block first.
For this crucial effort, do-goody amateur wannabees defo not wanted. Zen Masters only, please!
Camel are BRILLIANT. Just saying. 🙂
Camels obvs.
CameronB Brodie @ 02:15,
I know, I know. As an analogy it has its definite limits. Especially if you live in the Sahara. =grin=
Yeah, citizens rights, not much more than Sturgeon’s 2012 Claim of Right, perhaps a constitutional court for that matter, open to any citizen and affordable according to means.
And perhaps a petition right enshrined, with a duty of the state to promote ir if it reaches over say 10,000 signatures in Scotland (or a percentage of the population), and a further duty to do more about it like really push it even if they don’t like it, if it reaches 100,000.
And if a million an automatic referendum. Or if over 50% of the population (or electorate), then it becomes law via the Parliament or whatever form of government vehicle the people choose. It’d need something verifiable like the HMRC use for access online.
If citizens want something added or removed from any constitution, start a petition!
Yes, that’s getting complicated already! But certainly no longer than the US original constitution, preferably shorter.
It should be about citizens, not socialism or capitalism.
Nor about some rigid structure or goodness knows what 90% of it was all about, my eyes glazed even skimming.
Just sticking up for the oppressed Robert. Long live the People’s Front of Judea. 😉
Basically it needs to be readable and understandable by any citizen with the attention span of a midgie.
I’ll shut up now, my soapbox needs washed.
CameronB Brodie @ 02:43 am
NO, NO, not those vile revisionist splitters, we must turn to the Popular Independent Freedom Front for Liberation Exogesis (Democratic).(PIFFLE-D)
Hee, hee.
Re. Scotland’s constitution. There are “how to” manuals you know, suggesting best practice for shaping constitutional design around the consideration of human rights and future-proofing. I’m sure these will have been taken in to consideration. Anyway, constitutions can be democratically tweaked if sufficient flexibility and scope are built in to the legal framework.
link to nome.unak.is
HUMAN RIGHTS AND CONSTITUTION MAKING
link to ohchr.org
RIGHTS-BASED APPROACHES TO SOCIAL PROTECTION
link to odi.org
Human Rights Based Approach to Development and People’s Empowerment through Participatory Governance: A Critical Examination of Panchayati Raj Institutions in India
link to lse.ac.uk
One more for luck. The US Constitution empowers Government. What I want is a Constitution that empowers us the people, to choose and control where neccessary, the form of Government we choose.
CameronB Brodie @ 03:05,
Constitutions are rather like software systems. The more complex they are for the purpose intended, the harder they are to make work in the first place, and the harder they are to amend. Furthermore, the need for tweaking is a sure sign of poor initial design.
This is one thing that’s definitely best left to experts. Given clear guidelines for starters. (Again just like good software.)
Robert J. Sutherland
I wouldn’t have mentioned it if constitutional design hadn’t been part of my professional training. I simply trying to add some context.
.
Stuart Campbell,
You basket.
My sides are sore. Half a bloody hour laughing at the image of that courtroom with the gravitas of the surroundings and HM Queen’s crest above the sheriff.
Imagining the hushed, almost reverent tones that the immortal words of Mr Campbell on cross examination…
Mr Dunlop reading previous tweets from Mr Campbell, including one making reference to “any sanctimonious wankhole” – “what is a wankhole?”
Mr Campbell says it would be “a hole into which one might wank”
Stu., I love the forensic style of Wings Over Scotland. Though am not the greatest fan of your Twitter feed.
Also I have sat in courtroom witness boxes, possibly even the one you are in. I had to wear full police uniform and was required to quote some fairly colourful language with folk in the public gallery shuffling with discomfort at the course nature of repeating words of others.
But what you said is almost poetic.
Awesome.
———
With respect to Edinburgh Sheriff Court, as no orders nor directions have made under Section 4(2) and or Section 11 of the Contempt of Court Act 1981. The above reference to reported proceedings on the BBC are fair dealing in subsequent quotation.
Sources:
link to twitter.com
link to tinyurl.com
My my, I see the ‘holier than though’ self-opinionated people from a certain allegedly ‘pro’ indy website have decided to yet again attack Rev Stu on twitter.
Oh, he does express his opinions strongly, but that is what freedom of speech is about. Voltaire, ‘..I will defend to the death…etc…etc…’
It seems some very self-important people in the independence movement have such a high opinion of themselves, they just attack others. What they probably don’t like is his success. Perhaps it makes them Look somewhat impotent.
Just for the record, it was Wings over Scotland which created the astoundingly successful wee blue book, not the self important ‘Bella Caleduncia‘.
Can’t for the life of me remember what those other folks did for indyref in 2014. Oh, I remember, they talked amongst themselves, while criticising everybody else.
Never been convinced by Bella.
@ RJS – Software design is an “iterative” process. You make an initial sample. The flaws show up in use. You revise the code, more flaws show up. Eventually you arrive at a workable solution. It will still need tweaking as circumstances change.
The US constitution is an example.
Curious reading those with a vested interest damning Wings via a court case – there are those damning Wings as doing damage to the YES movement and those ‘read us instead we are superior’- they are the jealous ones with single figured readership.
Then there is Mr Murray ‘never vote SNP because oor Nicola had the temerity to be photied wi’ that Bugger Campbell – who started the Iraq war causing death and destruction. I presume Mr Murray is also a republican as oor Lizzie has had folk to dinner that most of us wouldn’t even spit on.
It would seem the enemies of Scotland and her independence come in many guises and use any puerile excuse to attack, no matter how risible or flimsy
I have no doubt the BBBC and STV using the court case ,will add their devious observations , with copious quotes from Wings while behaving like a maiden aunt having the vapours.
@Robert Peffers 10:43 pm
Was is an Xmas present by any chance?
link to youtube.com
Wishing all the very best for Stu and Wings today.
You did very well yesterday.
Links
link to blogs.gov.scot
Joanna Cherry – We’re in a crisis & I would #RevokeArticle50 & stay in the #EU, but England/Wales voted to leave, so the safest way to achieve this is to hold a 2nd referendum.. when circumstances change people should get a 2nd chance to vote..
link to twitter.com
link to itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com
link to thenational.scot
Today I told @theresa_may
link to twitter.com
Chuka’s gonna be chucked
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com
Another day, another statement by the Prime Minister and another question not answered
link to twitter.com
link to businessforscotland.com
During today’s @DefenceHQ in the @HouseofCommons I asked the Secretary of State whether the UK Govt have considered deploying armed military forces on the streets as part of post #brexit contingency plans.
link to twitter.com
link to theferret.scot
link to theorkneynews.scot
A shaken Ian Blackford has been told.. under Privy Council terms.. that a #NoDealBrexit is “pretty devastating”
link to twitter.com
link to centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk
This week I spoke to more than 40 NHS consultants to get a deeper understanding of how the controversial annual allowance taper was impacting doctors on the front line, right across the U.K. The stories shared with me were deeply alarming.
thread
link to twitter.com
Brussels confirms return of border checks under no-deal Brexit
link to archive.is
link to politics.co.uk
Brexit: into the madhouse
link to eureferendum.com
link to independent.co.uk
link to 24matins.uk
Public Law for Everyone is written by Mark Elliott. Mark is Professor of Public Law and Deputy Chair of the Faculty of Law at the University of Cambridge
link to publiclawforeveryone.com
Boris Johnson mocked for comparing himself to Moses over Brexit
link to archive.is
link to irishtimes.com
The implication of this is the ONLY reason May proposed an extension is to allow her to invoke direct rule over NI, and that it was too toxic to do so before March 29
link to twitter.com
Noam Chomsky speaks about Catalan political prisoners in Spain:
video
link to twitter.com
Sir Professor Poultice on GMS desperately trying to find a way NOT to say that in another vote Remain would win hands down.
Parliament Grabs Control of Brexit From a Wounded Theresa May
link to archive.is
No deal Brexit increasingly likely
video
link to twitter.com
Warning of legal limbo for 3m EU citizens living in UK after Brexit
link to archive.is
link to irishtimes.com
link to snp.org
British Social Attitudes Survey author Prof John Curtice: its results, corroborated by polls “is enough to raise doubts about whether, two and half years after the original ballot, leaving the EU necessarily continues to represent the view of a majority of the British public”
link to twitter.com
link to politico.eu
Government secretly funded paedophile network,inquiry told
link to archive.is
Jings Rev you need to come home more often if you are going to bring the sunshine with you.
Best of luck today.
PS just because you are back in Scotland does not mean you have to visit Rab the Rumper we do have good barbers now.
Oh that is so gonna get me a hammer lol
A wee bird told me!
link to youtube.com
Bella have been ‘the future’ for Indy for 10 years.It’s all happening. Any minute now.
People will come to their senses and see how the power of bad art will guide us through.
The thing about @Kevin Williamson, is I doubt he’s even heard of post-colonial theory, relational agency or emotional cognition. He’s old-skool ‘socialism’, which is why he defends misogyny in a frock. As the old saying goes, if you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem.
@Kevin Williamson
Want me to rip you to intellectual shreds in public? Just carry on being woke then.
Thepnr says:
Perhaps, we’ll know soon enough.
I can’t see what plan MPs could rally round, and even at that, an indicative vote would be some ways from becoming government policy.
I think there are two probable outcomes. An accidentally on purpose ‘no deal’ Brexit or a general election with new clear manifestos of Brexit policy from each party with elected MPs expected to stick to their manifesto pledges.
The British state is farkakt, as ‘we’ Yiddisher Arabs say, the cack has never been so abundant, so clingy, so malodorous, a veritable augean stable of political stale. And nowhere to be found is there a Heracles, only crazy King Knuts.
In the meantime in Alba the superannuated and fundamentally alien political system crunches and creaks on, the independence party seemingly as mired in the cack as the rest of them.
Where is our Saladin? Our Mahdi? For such is the measure of what we now need. When will the fabled and long awaited Scottish revolt begin?
The blade is keen, ready to serve and eager to taste enemy blood…….or is there a really must see on Netflix?
Stu enjoying the evening lights and the early morning sunshine in our Capital city,
voted by `Rough Guide` readers as the 4th most beautiful city in the world,
just behind Paris,Florence and Rome.
@Kevin Williamson
My offer to skool you might have appeared boastful. It wasn’t.
link to academic.oup.com
Constitutionalism and the Incompleteness of Democracy: An Iterative Relationship
link to elevenjournals.com
Constitutional Design: Proposals Versus Processes
link to pdfs.semanticscholar.org
Bridging comparative politics and comparative constitutional law: constitutional design in divided societies.
ls-tlss.ucl.ac.uk/course-materials/POLS6020_74469.pdf
I see the Daily Record political editor has fallen for the ‘more people Leave than SNP in 2017’ nonsense statistic. Easily countered by more people voted Remain than Lab/Tory/UKIP combined vote (these are the uphold Brexit parties).
What do these stats tell you, nothing seems to be the answer.
Nana says
Pieces by Fintan O’Toole are always worth reading. His analysis here of the demise of Britishness seems spot on. English nationalism is the biggest existential threat to the UK right now.
In a Scottish context, I welcome that. If the Tories (aka English Nationalist Party) inadvertently play their part in destroying their UK, excellent!
In a Northern Irish context, which Fintan focuses on, removal of Britishness might leave a void.
@ Abulhaq – …or is there a really must see on Netflix?
As a matter of fact, there is.
“Rebellion”, a Netflix original drama depicting the Irish rebellion from 1916. Two series of five parts so far and a third must surely be on the way. Edgy stuff.
If you are wondering why so many Irish hate the “British” tag or why the SNP are going down the ballot box route then watch “Rebellion”.
Michael Gray says
Day 2 of @WingsScotland v @kezdugdale defamation case kicking off this morning. Dugdale set to be the main witness, & will face questions from pursuer & defence. Likely to focus on the article in question that Campbell alleges was defamatory.
link to twitter.com
Sim says
…and we’re back for day two of @WingsScotland vs @kezdugdale at Edinburgh Sheriff Court. First (and, I think, only) witness of the day: Kezia Dugdale.
link to twitter.com
Good morning folks and welcome to another day of England’s politicians working out ways to ignore Scotland and Northern Ireland’s wish to remain in the EU while solving their own problem in England on how to convince leave voters they’re working hard to do the right thing for them
The precious Union is the most important thing there is in all of this, and not the EU union oh no it’s the Union that the treasury of England knows perfectly well they can’t do without, the Union with the people they most ignore,
Scotland, and their logic seems to be that if they don’t mention the name or pretend Scotland doesn’t exist then Scotland might just go away quietly into a corner and shut up and leave the *country* of England UK to bugger things up and once again and Scotland will be forced to accept whatever they decide (crossed fingers)
No matter what the English parliament comes up with at the end of the day doesn’t really matter because whatever it might be Scotland will be told what’s happening because we’re NOT the country apparently so we don’t count
This will happen again and again over something else and has done for over 300 years England will keep deciding things Scotland doesn’t want and they’ll do it with the complete and total arrogance of slave owners selling bits of us off to all and sundry as required to benefit *the country* which is never ours because we’re not *the country* we’re anly Scottish
Capella says
It is indeed a good series to watch.
From more recent events in Ireland the documentary on Netflix – Remastered: The Miami Showband Massacre – is well worth viewing to ‘acquaint’ the viewer with some of the skullduggery of the UK security apparatus.
Nana
Re the Fintan O’Toole piece.
I detect a siege mentality coming to the fore with BritNats in Scotland.
The more obviously they push their Britishness the more English Nationalistic it appears (because that is what it actually is).
Papers ‘seem’ to be citing MacFarlane’s ‘opinion’ over Paul’s. Funny that. Not.
‘we’
Doesn’t justify political prejudice that appears to be rooted in ethnic hostility.
Nana
Ta for the Boris as Moses link.
“I must have missed that bit in the Old Testament where Moses went to Pharaoh and said ‘Can you delay letting my people go for three months?’ and Pharaoh said ‘I’ll give you three weeks but if you’re going just go”
link to archive.is
@ galamcennalath – it’s on my list 🙂
Can attest to the power of the Miami Showband Massacre documentary on Netflix – well worth viewing – utterly malicious and deliberate machinations from ‘British’ state against the Irish. Divide and conquer is what they excel at and what they’ve been attempting in ‘soft’ form before, during and currently wrt to independence for Scotland.
From Philip Sim’s Twitter
“Kezia Dugdale says when she was first elected to Holyrood, an SNP politician gave her a business card with a link to Wings Over Scotland on the back of it; she says lots of other SNP politicians actively share Mr Campbell’s work “as an authority”.”
Strange that, considering she was first elected in May 2011 and Wings did not start up until November 2011. Is she allowed to tell lies in court?
Giving Goose says:
I agree with that completely. ‘Britishness’ is, and has always been, about the encroachment of the culture of SE England across these Isles, those who buy into it as Anglified wannabes, all in the quest for a Greater England. It has never been a union which celebrated diversity.
‘countries must work together. Making progress requires coordination among all, and in the right direction.
New IMF research analyzes various options in the context of three key criteria: better addressing profit-shifting and tax competition; overcoming the legal and administrative obstacles to reform; and ensuring full recognition of the interests of emerging and developing countries’
link to blogs.imf.org?
‘In these tumultuous times, solidarity and a new mode of co-operation is more needed than ever in the EU. It is not only an issue of intergovernmental solidarity among the member states—it is also about transnational solidarity among EU citizens…
Solidarity is not only a redistributive mechanism in the national welfare state. It is also a social, cultural and political concept. It refers to social relations created among individuals and social groups by acting together. It rests on cultural aspects, because it is a central norm and a guiding principle in contemporary societies. Solidarity is also a political term, because declaring solidarity means questioning power relations and asking how vulnerable groups and minorities can be supported (or protected against modes of domination)’
link to socialeurope.eu
Advice from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
?@AOC?
“Don’t try to negotiate your way through power. Create your own power”
By building solidarity,alliances,common purpose along ethical lines . Power up Scotland , the world will welcome a new independent democratic nation that can lead by example.
I
Morning Giving Goose, spot on comment. The Scotbrits are building the barricades as we speak 🙂
Morning Mike 10.21am I’ve seen some very funny tweets re the Boris/Moses thing but your comment is the best yet 🙂
I seem to recall Moses laid down a few ground rules which Boris and his pals regularly dismiss, for instance
“You shall not deal falsely, nor lie to one another”
The Brits have always excelled at misrepresentation or the misinterpretation of what they said: *Northern Irish Border* no such thing exists or ever has existed, it’s the
*British Border* in Ireland separating North from South, it’s better than saying the word *Annexed*
The Irish didn’t erect a border
They’re a funny lot the Brits they keep talking about control of their borders that they don’t seem to want then they go on to talk about *British soil* but accuse others of being *Nationalistic* in the bad sense when it’s always always them who make the issue of it
Nana
That Fintan O’Toole article is impressive.
It might be easy for us to see a united Ireland as a likely result of England’s crazy dreaming.
But there are consequences for Ireland as a whole if ‘Britishness’ simply disappears down the political sinkhole caused by brexit.
As for Scotland?
“Britishness is out of stock but have you tried Brexitness, which provides all the same thrills of tribal belonging? The DUP has bought the substitute product. But it does not do the same job at all. It is not an identity, just an identity crisis”
Kezia Dugdale just can’t help herself can she, in court she brings the SNP into her argument with Stuart Campbell
Just looking at the votes last night, it seems that Paul Masterton was the only Scottish Tory to rebel.
Come the next General Election it would be good to get leaflets made and delivered to each Tory constituency showing how their MP voted against their wishes.
I don’t get the argument that Dugdale thinks Stu was implying gay people can’t have children.
Surely it was the idea that Oliver Mundell wouldn’t have been born as David Mundell would not have gone on to marry and have children with his former wife? He could have had children, but not Oliver Mundell.
On the evidence so far today. I hope Kezia has been saving up.
Hard to believe she is actually a lawyer.
Is Olly Mundell the butt of the joke – no, it’s fluffy’s sexuality. Hmmm…
Bob Mack
i concur
sc’s qc took a long time to go through his blog posts highlighting kezia’s lies, effectively airing his posts in court,
kezia’s only come back is that whether her lies are actually lies is only a matter of opinion!!!!
same could be said about her opinion on stus “alleged homophobic” tweet
the difference being it isnt what kezia’s opinion is that counts
its the judges
hope she has kept back some of her iaacgmooh pay packet.
genuine question, what is the time frame for this trial and verdict?
re bella cally guy williamson, and any others, before accusing stu of being homophobic wouldnt it be better to at least wait until the verdict?
Dr Jim @10.11am
Another excellent post. You are on fire these days Dr Jim.
@K1 says: 25 March, 2019 at 10:51 pm:
” … Main motion passed, basically strengthens the Letwin amendment…Tories ain’t happy…at all.”
Are Tories ever happy? Now that you mention it that idea seems to resonate with my impressions over the years that Tories are never happy people.
Mind you they are never so happy as when they are tightening the screws to make the poor and most vulnerable even poorer and more vulnerable. Thing is that no matter how wealthy they get and how vulnerable the make the most vulnerable it is never enough for the Tories. They simply are not happy people.
Which I suppose is why we now class Labour as Red Tories and since the Blair/Brown NuLabour move of Labour rightward – Labour are never happy just like their Blue Tory and orange Tory cohorts. Yes I think you have hit on something there K1.
kezia
is not calling stu a homophobe, she said his tweet was homophobic…………
really????
@Thepnr says: 25 March, 2019 at 10:56 pm:
” … All going mental now in the HoC, right wing Tories attacking Bercow for all they’re worth LOL. I think they’ve lost the plot.”
I believe they didn’t have a plot in the first place, Thepnr.
K1 10.24am As someone who grew up in Ireland at the time of the Miami showband massacre. You’re preaching to the converted.
I certainly hope stu wins his case. But the ability of Brits to close ranks and protect their own never surprises me.
Dugdale stoking the kindling, pouring on petrol and lighting the touchpaper but oh no she didn’t start the fire.
The Scottish people who are sovereign vote to remain in the EU but the UK government insists we are leaving.
The English people who are NOT sovereign seem to think they are sovereign and that parliament must follow their vote to leave including removing the Scottish people from the EU who are sovereign and voted remain. This means the English people think they are also sovereign over Scotland. Totally unacceptable.
Someone needs to tell the English people that they are not sovereign. Step up to the mark please the ultimate holder of English sovereignty QE 11. Anyone think Queenie is going to do this – nae chance. Clarity is not what the English establishment do on these matters.
A reminder from this week’s agenda for the EU Parliament, that, in the European Union, London’s leading role in money laundering, tax evasion, criminal asset banking, etc., would come to an end. Soon.
europarl_en@subscribe.europarl.europa.eu
“Financial and tax crimes. Plenary is set to adopt a detailed roadmap revamping taxation and tackling financial crimes, calling for, among other things, the set-up of an EU financial police force and an EU anti-money laundering watchdog. The report also flags Belgium, Cyprus, Hungary, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta and The Netherlands potentially acting like tax havens and calls for an end to golden visa schemes. (debate Monday, voteTuesday)”
Robert Peffers says:
Indeed. Most of the they have a scowl on their faces. The only other expressing is the sneer, usually directed at someone they consider their inferior.
Indeed manandboy…….”Follow the money”
FOR THE RECORD
Is Scotland in an abusive relationship with England.
Maria Carnero 23rd MARCH BTL The National
As a matter of fact it is. It would compare to the situation of a marriage where the much larger in stature and size husband has seized control of all the family assets inherited by the petite wife from her own family and giving her just pocket money while he is selling and squandering the lot by gambling.
It compares to a situation where that husband has put a padlock in the door of the house that BOTH own and is attempting to swallow the key to stop the wife taking it, while at the same time he is throwing a tantrum and demanding to get the key and free access from a neighbourhood tall building where 27 other families live. The wife of course is told that she will not be able to use the key anyway, because it is 300 years old and will no longer open the padlock.
It compares to a situation where the husband is telling the wife that the minute she married him that was it, she belongs to him and she is not longer a woman anymore because she has now been demoted to be simply his wife and an just an extension of his own body, so she will not be able to on her own accord go to a lawyer and file for divorce unless she asks him consent first and he tells her what lawyer to go to and when to go.
It compares to an abusive relationship where the husband “devolves” power to the wife to choose her own clothes and hairstyle. But when she chooses something he does not approve of, he will demand her to pay a percentage of the cost of the clothes and hairstyle as a punishment and then claim it was her own fault for choosing “the wrong clothes” and excuse himself by saying that she knew “the rules”. He will of course spend the money in clothes for himself without even considering if she approves or not.
It compares to an abusive relationship where the wife is forced by her husband to carry around her neck and at all times a very fragile glass container with some lethal poison that he claims is a deterrent to stop the dodgy neighbours harming them, but he refuses to wear it because he claims his neck is simply too wide for the necklace and also his boss does not allow him to bring it along to work because it could kill his work colleagues if the bottle breaks or leaks.
It compares to an abusive relationship where the wife wins the lottery and wants to invest the money for her children but the husband seizes it from her, keeps it in his locked night table and every month he takes an undetermined amount of which he keeps 90%, hands 10% to the wife as “pocket money” but he expects her to pay the upkeep of the house and energy bills with that and half of his own gambling debt. The amount he takes of course depends on what he decides. At the same time, sometimes he feels generous and gives away some of the money to his wealthy acquaintances so they invite him to their poker game.
It compares to a situation where the abusive husband hires secretly an financial advisor to study all the wife assets and write a report to see how wealthy she would be if she divorced him and also what ways could he use to seize the assets from her. Then the husband proceeds for years to tell the wife just how poor she is and that she would not survive without him. At all times, of course, the report would be kept in a vault somewhere so the wife could not see just how wealthy she actually is.
It compares to an abusive relationship where the husband hides all the bank accounts statements and bank details so the wife cannot know the real state of their finances and how much he has been taken from her since they married. But then of course she is presented with a bill to cover half of the debt and the interests of that debt that the husband caused for his own gambling and for not taking proper care of he finances. She is of course told that it is really “her debt” and that she would not be able to survive on her own with that level of “debt”.
I could go on and on and on.
Oh Kevin Williamson………
It would appear that only the University educated socialists can save us……the common man has no place in this fight for independence because he or she insists on voicing one’s opinion in what they….the intellectuals have deemed is but a mere echo chamber…..or rather a lower class echo chamber as opposed to the intellectually superior echo chamber frequented by those self ordained superior intellects who frequent the more intellectual platforms.
Apparently there is no place for the likes of us…the common man and woman….to vent our frustrations and highlight our observations of the obvious bias and misinformation we regularly see ….we must conform and only listen to and comply with those intellectuals who look upon us, on this site, with disdain at what they, the intellectuals, perceive to be the more coarse and crude section who demean the Independence movement.We , according to them, present collectively a deluded and naive argument and we are but uneducated sheep easily duped and led by someone they deem totally unsuitable.
So much better that we perhaps listen to the likes of say..Angela Haggerty…who I recall applauded the Scottish Tories for standing up for Scottish fisherman…of course this was before the release of the information on the six wealthy families controlling the fishing rights….oops…perhaps she is not one to follow or respect….but she is one of the educated socialists is she not ?
The problem with their argument is that it is both muddled and inconsistent and chooses to ignore the obvious thus it fails to convince and convert the very people it should be reaching out to.
Their supposed ‘reasoned’ argument fails to resonate with the man and woman in the street because they present it in such a manner that it cannot easily be related to . If your platform introduces alternate socialist Indy parties and regularly condemns the one existing Indy party who currently has the most public support and thus the best opportunity to achieve Independence for Scotland then tis no wonder your motives and commitment to Independence will be questioned and you will be ignored.
So I think tis not the place of others to dictate who others should and should not follow and who in their opinion is presenting the best or worse case for Independence….the Yes movement is a people’s movement NOT one that the intellectual elite should try to manipulate and control….let us the people decide what we want to say, how we want to say it and on which platform we choose to say it on…..I think the people will decide themselves thank you very much.
Thank God for WOS ….without whom I would have had NO place to voice my opinion within a platform of like minded people.
@Clapper,
Great post. Never in human history has the intelligentsia on their own, managed to bring great change to anything. It takes the will of ordinary folk to actually make change happen.
@Phil says:25 March, 2019 at 11:24 pm:
” … New ebike here as well – due to heart surgery – and the bike is great. I deliberately used the local shop for the long-standing reason that without trade he would have to shut and nearest bike shop would then be a very long way away.”
That is my usual mantra too, Phil, but I served a 5 year Apprenticeship as an Electrical Fitter. That is not just an electrician but Electro-mechanical fitter. Then I spent the best part of the rest of a 50 year working life specialising in cutting edge electronics.
So my intention was to start how I meant to go on – building and maintaining the machine myself. Which, by the way is a tricycle as I have balance problems due to inner ear damage from accidental exposure to a ship’s guns.
As trikes cost significantly more than bikes. Coming in at the best part of £2,000. Not including in most cases the assembly and adjustment. Add those in and the machine’s lifetime maintenance and it is a considerable investment.
Now bicycle/tricycle machinery has moved on some way since I was involved in cycle sports. In my opinion perhaps it has become far too complex for it’s own good. For example the newer form of calliper brakes has many adjustments to keep efficient. The old form of bicycle brakes was perhaps a little less efficient but was certainly efficient enough that if you slammed on the front brake without the rear brake you used the ejector seat and went over the handle bar.
The modern V brake, (which is still just a calliper, has so many adjustments that if you do not know what you are doing will lead to inefficient brakes.
I was confident I could soon find out, or work out, the complexity of modern cycles. Another example would be Derailleur gears. If you don’t know what you are doing you can cost yourself a lot in repair costs. Yet the gear system is not really beyond anyone to master – if the right information is available.
RP – have a chat with Ben at Kinetics, in Glasgow, he’s your man for all things ebike, trike and much more
Tory Brexiter John Baron says …. “A snap general election is becoming more likely. Whatever the outcome of the votes on Wednesday, the numbers inside the current remain-dominated House of Commons will not change.
It may be that an election is necessary to redress the balance in favour of MPs willing to implement the referendum result, for history suggests it is unwise for any parliament to distance itself from the people. The events of the next few weeks will be critical.”
His statement shows how Brexiteers think. He believes a GE would return a parliament which would rally round a hard Brexit. Does he see that entailing local Tory branches deselecting ‘soft’ MPs and replacing with ‘hard’? Or, even Labour doing the same? Does he perhaps believe the electorate want a hard Brexit, while polls suggest ‘soft’ or none is where opinion lies?
He might be right about a GE. However, Tories and Labour will set out their manifesto positions. Brexit to gain maximum votes, obviously. Probably, both will promise to deliver Brexit, however in order to gain voters they won’t be pushing the ‘hard’ end of the spectrum. Labour softer than Tory, perhaps, but in England Tories are still the most electable,
IMO the SNP should campaign in an GE on Indy in the EU to put much needed clear blue water between them and The BritNats on Brexit and Europe.
It must be more difficult for the young who may be interested in all things political to make clear judgements when they have less history of the franchises of parties to base their opinions on than us oldies who have seen the twists and turns for generations so I thought some helpful guides in assessing how to assess what these people are on about
Listen to what a politician says carefully and when they’ve finished if you’re still shaking your head for the answer then that generally means you’re right they never answered because they wanted to avoid the question or they didn’t have a suitable lie to tell, but in either case you should mark that up as *not trustworthy* Jeremy Corbyn is an expert at answering nothing with answers that mean nothing
Then you get the repetitive politician who reverses every question that’s put to them back to the position where they can Mantrasise every word they say, Theresa May and many Labour politicians employ this type of avoidance
What politicians don’t say or when they *misunderstand* the question frequently is an old ploy to give themselves time to answer their own question that nobody asked in order to present what is usually a lie, Boris Johnson the great diverter and deflector employs this tactic all the time basically because he’s not that smart and he knows it but wants to appear as though he is clever and witty by pretending he thought you asked him something you didn’t as he smiles his most charmingest of winning grins and hops off as quickly as he can because he has another lie to tell some other folk urgently
These examples cannot be 100% accurate because no one is 100% the same all of the time
Intelligence or Education or fame or fortune doesn’t mean you can’t be a prize dunce as well, the best trained dog will still stupidly eat a wasp
@galamcennalath
Here’s another of the opinion that there may be a general election in the offing or that there might not be because it’s impossible. Peston:
Why a general election is both necessary and impossible
link to archive.fo
Manandboy 12.03pm.
Bravo, very well put.
NI, the UK, and British.
With the end of the Treaty of Union and the beginning of Scottish Independence, in the modern era, England will revert back to being England + Wales and NI. The title ‘UK’ will be no more, nor will the term ‘British’ be in any way meaningful.
This will have obvious implications for those who associate closely with the UK and identify themselves as British.
This in turn will have ramifications for NI and particularly for those who identify strongly as British. To a lesser degree perhaps, this will be the case also in Scotland, but also in England itself. I cannot speak about Wales.
David Cameron and the Conservative Government and Party, really and truly did not know what they were doing when deciding on an EU Referendum.
A bit like trying to lower the water level in a hot bath, but then losing the plug.
Clapper57 says:
26 March, 2019 at 12:03 pm
Oh Kevin Williamson………
Nothing to do with independence, but I had a similar conversation about modern fantasy literature from the likes of Tad Williams to the more recent LitRPG scene by the likes of G. Akella and Micheal Atamanov. The guy who started the converstation was a professor of Literature and it took place in a sauna I was visiting. He was claiming all the modern stuff is just pulp fiction and not worth the paper it was written on.
I challenged him and used JRR Tolkien as a major contributor and game changer to was is now a huge sector. Tolkien was rubbish, so I went back further to Lewis Carol. That was wunderbar. So I thought, ach bollocks, that type of elitist and culture snob will never be anything else. Living in his bubble of self importance.
He ilk only thinks something is good if it is taught by professors like himself. Its an international problem that people are forced fed by their own sense of eliteism. The common man is not capable of understanding such lofty notions and therefore their thinking, be flawed, is not woth considering.
What a stuck up prat, I thought. The thing is, these people aren’t capable of thinking for themselves. They only accept what they have been told to believe by people they consider worthy enough or elite enough to bother listening to.
That in essence, is the establishment’s intellectual bubble. It pervades every culture and keeps the so called elite at the top. People not like them will never fit in.
They think that they have made it, have been accepted to the very pinnacle of that which others will strive to, but never achieve. How wrong they are. As Billy Conolly said when he was still funny, they are more to be pitied than scolded.
O/T
Just completed a very long YouGov survey on all matters political, Brexit and even a question on Scottish independence.
Probably will be published in next few days.
galamcennalath
if a ge, may has promised to resign. it is the ordinary tory members who will elect the next leader. they overwhelmingly support no deal, (see boris address to the party at the conservatuve home rally at the last tory conference)
these ordinary tory members also get a say in who their constituency candidate will be.
the reason the tory members support no deal shows support among the voters at 42%+
this isnt enough to win a referendum but it is enough to win a ge.
if treeza resigns, i can see no other outcome than a ge with a no deal tory leader and candidates who support him/her.
the number of tories required to cross the floor and vote for a corbyn led vonc is very small. if corbyn had the numbers he would have called for another vonc already.
why would tories who support treezas deal or remain support corbyn when it would almost certainly bring about a no deal tory party victory at the ge?
Republic of Scotland, I must stress RoS, the abusive marriage piece is the work of Maria Carnero, who is a regulate commenter on The National website. I’m sure you will be happy for me to say,
‘Bravo, Maria Carnero, very well put.’
Time the SNP pressed the strategic reset button and high time too the leadership took a course on British colonial history. The costumes may change but the standard text of the drama does not. There is no Scottish exception in this type of performance.
BritState soft and hard power mechanisms are still functioning,so this is far from being the end of the affair. But what is to be done?
Certainly not another ad hoc referendum.
Interestingly, the British political class is beginning to take on certain characteristics of that found in the world of my conception. Run their course. Time they got off the track. Where’s my copy of ‘How to be a Parliamentary Democracy’, illustrated Arabic language version. Beidan! (bollocks) The chapter on what to do when things really get screwed up is missing. Must be top secret. Send in the army? That’s the customary get out, isn’t it? Such a learning curve!
Dr Jim says:
26 March, 2019 at 12:38 pm
Intelligence or Education or fame or fortune doesn’t mean you can’t be a prize dunce as well, the best trained dog will still stupidly eat a wasp.
Very true and reminded me of ma daft dug fae years ago.
Used to chase shadows round the living room wall. If he saw a spider he would frantically yelp, chase that all round the room floor and eat it if he managed to catch it .
Great memories.
schrodingers cat says:
I’m highly sceptical that ‘no deal’ is popular. There is evidence a lot of people think it means status quo, not Armageddon.
I agree it’s popular among Tory members. If there are two or more contenders for leader it has to go to the membership, and the membership favour someone from the loony right.
With the wider population all this adds us to reasons not to vote far right/hard Brexit.
If the Tories don’t go hard right, then they risk a UKIP revival. Rock and a hard place.
What about Labour? I think there is a poor chance of them getting a winning sales pitch together.
While I think a GE is possible I’m not sure it solves the Brexit problem. The EU might not think so either.
link to belfasttelegraph.co.uk
“Karen Bradley approves £350m city deal for Belfast with Londonderry set to follow”
Handing out bribes, courtesy of a desperate Westminster Tory-UDA-DUP Government, Karen Bradley at last finds something she can do as SOS for NI.
Over 15 years, though, clever tactics by the British. Classic Colonialism. Long term bribery.
K1 10;24
I watched the Miami Showband Massacre on Netflix last night, advise anyone who can access this film to do so, you may think you know how bad British Establishment can get . . . you don’t.
Clapper57
Got it in one, Kevin Williamson appears to simply be a puffed-up snob.
BBC Reporting Scotland lunchtime today
Dugdale Case. – after neutral reporting yesterday someone has thought we need to change the tone so there is a small bit of bias today in favour of Dugdale in my opinion.
Thereafter the rest of the programme goes back to the the normal reporting – Scotland is rubbish, Scots are rubbish, SNP are rubbish and of course Scotgov is rubbish.
The BBC the controversial British State broadcaster that pumps British Nationalist propaganda in to your home – for a fee of course – the license fee.
Kezia appears to have backtracked considerably. Stu is not a homophobe but that one tweet was a bit homophoby.
I wonder if the judge will buy it.
@Clapper57
Not entirely sure who this Mr Williamson is, but they don’t sound a very inclusive or welcoming sort. As for WOS being an echo chamber? They clearly don’t look in very often then. 😀
The YES movement is a broad church. All parties and no parties. All peoples and from every walk of life. There is NO ‘this way only’ to self government/independence (which is kinda the point). Self determination, freedom of choice, means exactly what it says on the tin. It’s not an exclusive club. It’s for everyone.
I’m sure yer intileckchulls can have a good ponder over that and mibbies a few debates, or is it dialogues? Never sure really, me not being the brightest sort and all. Onywise. Seein’ as how I’m thick and wouldn’t understand philosophical or existential concepts on the nature of the body politic and the human condition in general? I’ll stick to reading and chatting with friends and familiar faces hereabouts. 🙄
No intention to ‘preach’ Bobp…merely agreeing wi galas’ recommendation wrt to discussion about Netflix doc’s.
On Kevin Williamson and Jonathon Shafi etc, I have no view as I had never heard of them before yesterday. They would appear to be at the radical left/Rise end of the political spectrum and therefore unlikely to be Wings/SNP centre ground types.
I always thought that elections are more likely to succeed if the centre ground is carried…even if I am in a bubble.
Did Dugdle *really* say she has no idea who George Takei is? The whole LGBT community knows who George Takaei is!
“BREAKING DUP says a one year extension is better than Theresa May’s Withdrawal plan to leave the EU.”
link to twitter.com
BBC being economical with the truth again. We could play “spot the lies”. But we should probably wait until the court case is over.
Stu looking very reverential in his court outfit.
link to bbc.co.uk
@Handandshrimp 2:08pm
Absolutely, the hard left is every bit as bad as the hard right always shouty needy and strident and when that doesn’t work out comes the threateny stuff
K1. 2.02 pm. Sorry k1 was’nt having a go at you.
“BREAKING DUP says a one year extension is better than Theresa May’s Withdrawal plan to leave the EU.”@Thepnr says at 2:21pm
Looks like EU Elections as per D Tusks statement of 21/03/2019:
“The UK Government will still have a choice of a deal, no-deal, a long extension or revoking Article 50. The 12th of April is a key date in terms of the UK deciding whether to hold European Parliament elections. If it has not decided to do so by then, the option of a long extension will automatically become impossible.”
Maximum of 14 days until we find out for definite though.
Looks like DUP have shat it at thought of a GE as they will lose their King Maker status and associated bribery cash.
Kezia Dugdale’s evidence today seems to be a case of *I don’t know much of anything that happens in the world but I do think Stuart Campbell is a homophobe, but only when he tweets*
Thereby confirming she’s an idiot who doesn’t have much to *think* with
@heraldnomore says:26 March, 2019 at 12:31 pm:
” … RP – have a chat with Ben at Kinetics, in Glasgow, he’s your man for all things ebike, trike and much more.”
Oh! I think I’ve get it pretty well covered, heraldnomore.
I did 45 years in electro-mechanical engineering after a 5 year apprenticeship and lots of Night-school and then 45 years of courses to keep up to date.
It doesn’t take me long to suss out how these things work. The electric/electronics side is simple enough. I have quickly reached the conclusion that the mechanical side of things is greatly over-engineered. The more complex you design something the more complications and predictable failures there are going to be.
That’s not saying they aren’t brilliant engineering – just that they are far more complex than they need to be. As an example it is a bit like the difference between a Formula 1 race car and a family saloon.
The family saloon is never going to win the British Grand Prix but the Formula 1 car is never going to negotiate the daily rush hour commute. If an F1 car has to sit on the starting grid too long it overheats and breaks down.
See what I mean? A road bike for everyday use is very different from a bike used in road racing.
Kezia got confuddled on the word Homophobic & never read any of the Revs previous tweets & blocked her twitter account but still read the Blog on & off but asked the FM to have the MSPs/MPs to be banned from reading WoS .
Evasive when asked questions
@Dr Jim
@Handandshrimp
Perhaps it’s just the times we live in, but the hard left are in the political wilderness, but the hard right seem to be damned close to having real influence on events.
The left appear to relish ideologically pure defeat. The right will use any means to further their ideology!
In a true proportionally representative democracy both would have their presence and input. From my perspective the centre would deliver balance and pragmatic consensus.
In Scotland at the moment the hard left have been burning their own tents whenever they can and therefore not making the contributions Holyrood’s PR should allow. The hard right is a different beast, relying on a ‘colonial’ interference from external allies. Thank heavens we have a strong centre right now.
re. the ongoing breakdown in social solidarity. This is exactly what the “trickle-down economics” shysters want. It opens space and opportunity for disaster/vulture capitalism.
link to coe.int
Legal Origin and Social Solidarity: The Continued Relevance of Durkheim to Comparative Institutional Analysis
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Intergenerational Solidarity
Strengthening Economic and Social Ties
link to palgrave.com
Strengthening the European Solidarity Corps: Joint statement by Commissioners Navracsics, Oettinger and Thyssen
link to europa.eu
Manandboy 12.03pm. A brilliant analogy by maria carnero in the national 23rd march.likening Scotland to the abused partner.
@galamcennalath 3:08pm
If it wasn’t for the Lib Dem parasites in Scotland the balance would be about close to being reasonable left right and centre, but the Lib Dems slither around from stone to stone looking for a winning extreme to join with while pretending to be in the centre, they’re the perfect better togetherers, heads and policies darting around like Meerkats
While I am obviously rooting for him, and have no idea on which side the learned Sheriff will come down, I should say, IF the Rev has made a mistake over this whole sorry matter, it is perhaps in this.
From the fact, she admitted in evidence, the bold Kez thought the subject of the tweet was Fluffy’s homosexuality, it seems clear to me: the Rev ought to have made an appointment with Kez to tell the joke.
If she could not see Fluffy Junior was the subject of the joke, then she must only see jokes by appointment.
Mind you, this – only seeing jokes by appointment – is perhaps good practise where the likes of small Dick Leonard, Jackie Baillie, Ian Gray, Jenny Marra, James Kelly and the rest of the British Labour in Scotland MSPs are concerned.
Yesterday’s event with Michael Russell
watch it here
Scotland, Brexit and Devolution
link to livestream.com
@Socrates McSporran,
Dugdales defence relies on claiming the tweet was homophobic.not the Rev.
However she claimed in her column and also in a question to the First Minister, that He (the Rev) not the tweet, was homophobic. Regardless of what she personally finds homophobic ,my opinion is she is toast.
To claim that making a homophobic remark is distinct from the maker of the remark being a homophobe is rather too nice a point on which to hang a legal defence, methinks
Reading the Twitter output from the court, Ms Dugdale comes across as someone dripping in Establishment entitlement IMHO.
Nice ‘Fanzine’ Sly wee dig from Dugdale that doesn’t hate you because she doesn’t know you lol.
Theresa May just loves being PM, holding the whip hand over Parliament, and dressing up every day ‘to go to work’ at Westminster with her big red file-folder in the crook of her always left arm, presenting an image for the cameras and through them the impression in the Media that she is in control and diligently doing the day-job.
Stage managed, rehearsed, script well-learned, choreographed and carefully coached. Exactly what you have to do with someone who has no talent, little coordination, no organisational competence and with zero judgement skills, an unerring ability to make the wrong choices.
Other than that, there isn’t a problem.
Is there?
Thepnr , wonder if they are going for the Nuclear option of staying in EU until our mandate runs out in 2021 and hope they have a unionist majority in Scottish Parliament in the 2021 elections.
Was worried about this scenario a while back, maybe thats been there plan all along.
From RT:-
The Director General of the #BBC has been getting worried about the term ‘mainstream media’ becoming a term of abuse. Do you think the BBC is biased?
link to twitter.com
Is ‘homophobia’ (such an unfortunate lexical coining) the new secular blasphemy? Thou shalt not even think it, write it, let alone act on it?
The world, or the allegedly ‘advanced’ parts of it, seem to be regressing into kindergarten mode. It’s wicked not to love everybody! yes miss, sorry miss, wont do it again miss.
What next? Burn the ‘blasphemous’ literature or perhaps burn the blasphemers.
Make sure your thoughts are sound…..or else.
Macart@2.00pm
“It’s for everyone” very true.
Scottish independence is for everyone- even for the most Britnatty of Britnats. Some people are there now, others will follow at different speeds.
Corbyn should ask May how is the “strong and stable” mantra looking to the public now.
The BBC are often accused of left-wing bias but all the research I’ve looked at suggests the bias is right-wing. The BBC have also been effective propagandists for trickle-down economics for the last forty years or so. Conditioning the public to accept neo-liberal, voodoo, economics and austerity. I doubt Brexit could have been sold without the platform the BBC gave white British nationalism.
The BBC definitely has a case to answer, in term of promoting the current level of social anomie.
Inclusive growth: Making an economy work for a few more?
link to cles.org.uk
I was speaking to a Lawyer friend of mind and he says whether Rev wins or loses will boil down to whether the Sheriff feels that Dugdale was attacking Rev directly or just the tweet.
@schrodingers cat
The tory members choose the leader, but tory mps decide who is on the ballet that members get to choose from.
BoJo wont get his name on ballot.
Making Laura Kunsberg the BBC’s political editor, is an odd way of showing support for pluralism of economic thought. Without pluralism of economic thought, government becomes inefficient and authoritarian in nature (see Brexit). Without pluralism of economic thought, can we be certain austerity will end in Brexitania?
@Mountain Shadow,
Exactly. There is evidence she referred to the Rev in her diatribe rather than what he tweeted, and that is what should get her.
Incredible number in the revoke Article 50 petition.
Now at 5,750,000 and growing continually.
I’d bet on it going beyond 6 Million tomorrow.
We are still with you Rev.
The layer should have a laugh with her and ask her to explain her “extra money ” from a passenger levy that she was going to stop, although it never existed. lol
Dippy Dug will soon be put back on her leish.
@Macart, 2.00pm
“yer intileckchulls”
Chortled when I saw that. Neat, Macart
Homophobia is a strange offence to be accused of because it seems you’re allowed to be homophobic until or unless someone complains that you are then it’s a hate crime
That to me doesn’t seem remotely reasonable relying soley on the veracity of a complainant and presumption of the amount of offence taken without a basis to prove the offended is or are genuinely mentally wounded and by how much is it measured, and it kinda drifts into areas of thought police
There are too many new things to keep up with and designations to be aware of
Thank goodness I’m too old to be taken seriously anymore or I could be in trouble without even knowing it these days
re. Homophobia. I don’t mean to be a smartypants intileckchull, it’s just I know a bit about evolutionary psychology and stuff. I blame the parents, frankly. Mine included. 🙂
link to sciencedaily.com
Natural homophobes? Evolutionary psychology and antigay attitudes
link to blogs.scientificamerican.com
Scientific Homophobia
When it comes to homosexuality, we have not always practiced what we preach.
link to psychologytoday.com
Who has the worst attitudes toward sexual minorities? Comparison of transphobia and homophobia levels in gender dysphoric individuals, the general population and health care providers.
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Undeadshuan says:
Yes, MPs whittle it down to two. Those go to all members.
link to researchbriefings.parliament.uk
However, the Tories have form in it going down to the last two at WM, then one drops out! And when that happens the remaining one is crowned without it going out to the membership.
The two who (might) go out to the membership would perhaps contain one ERG far righter. I suspect BoJo has shown too much disloyalty and someone else would represent the far right.
Personally, I think the Tories have so many problems to content with, someone will just be crowned.
Bob Mack says: @ 12.20pm
.“Never in human history has the intelligentsia on their own, managed to bring great change to anything. It takes the will of ordinary folk to actually make change happen”.
Yep Bob, power to the people as opposed to power to those who , given the chance, will seek to take us all down the path of their choosing and expect us all to blindly follow ….without questioning why.
McBoxheid says: @ 1.24pm
Yep McBoxheid…there are those who live in an intellectual bubble….try and burst that bubble and well one is then perceived to be the enemy and somehow diminishing the argument …one should never be embarrassed to express one’s views in the manner and style that allows you to articulate your opinion. If we allow them to suppress us then we lose the right to be heard…..as for the ‘Indy’ intellectual socialists they are the worse as they supposedly champion the rights of the forgotten few while simultaneously try to deny them the right to have their say in the manner and place they choose to voice that opinion.
CameronB Brodie says: @ 1.50pm
“Kevin Williamson appears to simply be a puffed-up snob”.
Yes Cameron, he promotes Bella C…and criticices WOS….as if one’s opinion is only valid if made on the ‘right’ platform. My brother has written pieces for Bella C…one in particular in 2015 proved prophetic called “The Fall and Rise of Tory England and the Crisis of Labour “ ….it was quite wordy and beyond my limited intelligence…however my brother at least recognises the importance and significance WOS has within the Indy movement. ….we have discussed it many times. What to do hmm……ignore and let them carp from the sidelines I think.
Macart says: @ 2.00pm
“Not entirely sure who this Mr Williamson is, but they don’t sound a very inclusive or welcoming sort. As for WOS being an echo chamber? They clearly don’t look in very often then. ?
The YES movement is a broad church”.
Well Macart , a broad church of people it certainly is….much debate prompted by excellent observations and fact based articles as provided by WOS but also by astute contributors who are able to distinguish fact over fiction and who are not shy in giving their opinion….a right no one should deny them…….that’s the problem with ultra left wingers…..they only want THEIR echo chamber to reverberate and all others to be silenced.
@Dr.Jim
At the age of 4, I was called a dirty little Arab by a man on a plane worried, I suppose, in case I blew up next to him. At the time it didn’t really register, although it certainly did with parents and older siblings. I’ve been called far worse since and by the most ‘respectable’ even ‘right thinking’ people.
It has not ‘damaged’ me, rather given me a rather thick skin for my years. However, I’m a bit short of dosh at the mo. So, you lot out there in the big world, watch it! I’ll sue!
Dorothy Devine at 7.33am,
Yes, I am a republican, thanks.
I have never urged people not to vote SNP. I just think we should ditch Nicola as leader. Her fondness for Campbell, Kissinger, Allbright and Clinton are a recurring theme and not what a radical Scotland needs, and she is much more interested in ingratiating herself with the UK political establishment than in Independence. Where is Indyref2?
I would replace her with Joanna Cherry.
What I find genuinely scary is the attitude members did not ought to be allowed to criticise the leader. There is a word for that, as a political philosophy.
Best wishes.
Does the referendum not shine a clear light on what we all have known to be true for a long time that Politicians when asked a binary question can’t answer yes or no purely for fear of saying the wrong thing and might lose their jobs so they prevaricate until they can blame somebody else
Habits of a lifetime
@Craig Murray 5:39pm
When you say *I just think we should just ditch Nicola as leader* I wasn’t aware you were a member of the SNP and had a voice in such matters, will you be a delegate for your branch at conference?
You also said *I would replace her with Joanna Cherry* Will you be putting that forward at conference also? and does your branch concur?
@CameronB Brodie
As smartypants intileckchulls go… You sound just fine. 🙂
@cirsium
😉 (winky thing)
I think criticism is fine Mr Murray but I think there are those happy to dish it out but not so happy to accept it.
Right now I consider this the time to criticise those in Westminster who continue to lie , cheat , obfuscate and feather their nest but not the time to give our First Minister a hard time because she gets a snap taken with some fella that you , and others dislike. He did not commit the UK and USA to the Iraq war – he just wasn’t that important.
very glad you are republican ,the more the merrier.
Jim,
I have been a member of the SNP since 2011. I was a delegate at the Autumn conference, and have been at several SNP conferences. Can’t make the next one will be abroad.
Some in my branch agree with me, but I imagine the large majority don’t, on Nicola.
I had no idea I was not allowed to express an opinion unless the majority of my branch agree with it. Could you pint out to me the bit in the party constitution where it says that?
Dorothy,
I am sorry but you are very wrong, Alastair Campbell was absolutely central to the UK joining the Iraq War and was very, very important. Tony Blair’s right hand man and more powerful than any Cabinet Minister.
He oversaw the production of the Dirty Dossier on Iraqi WMD and fed the 45 minute claim to the media. See the Chilcot Report. Quite possibly without Campbell, no Iraq War.
@Craig Murray
I never said that you weren’t allowed to express an opinion, I asked a question which you’ve just misquoted me on in your answer
Abulhaq
On re-reading the post that caused me concern, again, it is now clear your hostility is towards the performance of the Palestinian government, not the people. Please accept my apologies for accusing you of racial bias.
What I don’t get though, is your apparent support for the IDF and the systematic abuse of human rights.
“At least the Israelis go after the villains.”
Jim @ 6.05
Yes, apologies, you did not say that on re-reading.
Craig, I agree with much of what you say and have criticised SNP directly with some of their decision making, I questioned the intelligence of certain strategies and stances however I believe we are so close to independence that severe criticism could be counter productive to achieving that.
Perhaps a gentle prod rather than a boot up the arse would suffice.
Eyes on the prize.
@CraigMurray
Agree totally. The Scottish national movement does have a tendency to be parochial and altogether culturally too anglo-american centred, despite the protestations of Europhilia.
The SNP seeming to follow the Westminster rules does not boost morale.
As for NS, not convinced she has a coherent plan. She will certainly have a rosy future in some UN agency or NGO when she goes, leaving the independence train probably still stuck in the sidings.
James O’Brien is talking with Oliver Norgrove, on LBC YouTube
This conversation sheds light on an undiscussed issue viz, that UK audiences have been fed a diet for many years, of exciting or terrifying but stimulating entertainment, with the result that whenever politics is offered on TV, informed, knowledgeable, reliable and truthful presentations are considered too bland and too unexciting for an audience permanently ‘high’ on scary or exciting films.
And what gets broadcast are not the ideas of the good guys, but instead the lies, the fear mongering and general fakespeak of the ‘bad guys’. With disastrous consequences for democracy, justice and national wellbeing – as we’ve seen, not only in Brexit, but in Indy2014.
I see they’ve agreed a debate for Monday on the petition for A50 revocation, clearly they don’t want this constantly being fired at them into next week and to stop the numbers rising as we near 12th April…I can think of no other reason that this has been allocated a debate given May’s intransigence and insistence that A50 revocation is not an option. And that she was of a mind to completely ignore it from the start.
@ Craig Murray,
Craig, I like a lot of what you put out in your blogg, but you are doing yourself no favors with your hatred of Nicola.
It must have hurt when you applied to be a candidate for the SNP and were rejected, especially as you have such experience and would have been a genuine asset to them, but your anti Israeli views would have been a disaster for us (just look at how the press have been able to divide Labour over less fanatical views than yours)
So, you are a liability Craig, but can still be an asset to the Yes cause, if you only put your spite to one side and get behind us, no matter who our present leader is.
You sound like bitter auld Jim Sillars.
I don’t claim to now much about Alistair Campbell, but the few things I do know is that he became deeply depressed and admitted he was an alcoholic after the Iraq war, so was clearly effected deeply by the whole saga.
He is the kind of guy we need to come on to our side, because he knows where the bodies are buried.
Just give it a rest.
@Bob Mack
I think that’s it in a nutshell. The question might be, can a person who isn’t homophobic make an actual homophobic tweet, and did Dugdale’s article (which I can’t find) refer to the tweet or the tweeter. And perhaps, whether Dugdale is a credible witness or not. A generally very significant case. Thank God I don’t do twitter, bad enough posting below the line these days.
There is nothing the Westminster Establishment would like more than to get rid of Nicola Sturgeon. Don’t let them.
Divide and rule is ever their best weapon.
Abulhaq@6.23pm
I’m sorry to say but you are starting to sound like Dr Doom from Essex. We’re doomed – doomed I tell you doomed. If all you can post is negative stuff why not give it a rest. Just my advice and my opinion. If you think your negative posts help the independence movement perhaps you can explain how.
Realpolitik isn’t the game we want to play but that’s the environment we must conduct ourselves within. Britain has become more right-wing since the invasion of Iraq, and not everyone in Scotland has strong feelings about a story the BBC sanitised horrendously. The name of the game is gaining popular support for independence, not who is the most ethical politician in the village.
Patrick Roden@6.29pm
“You sound like bitter auld Jim Sillars”
Sillars has lost the plot in recent times – more concerned about his grudges and his own ego than Scottish independence. He should just keep quiet and enjoy his retirement.
In fact too many negative posts and comments from people who are more interested in their own egos and self advancement than anything else and don’t care if they are hindering or helping independence.
@Dr Jim “Thank goodness I’m too old to be taken seriously anymore or I could be in trouble without even knowing it these days”
I’m feeling the same way. Sometimes me and the wife just wish we could go away somewhere and leave the mad ridiculous world behind. Does that make us mundiphobic?
Andy Coulson was guilty of lying under oath/perjury but was set free by the establishment Lord,
Alistair Charmichael was proven to have lied and yet the establishment Lord said
“it was decided it had not been proven beyond reasonable doubt that he had committed an “illegal practice”,
lying is subjective to the whims of establishment Lords.
Thanks Nana @3.38 pm
Pretty hostile audience! Well done to the quietly confident Scottish Brexit Secretary, Mike Russell.
Very, very disappointed with you, Craig Murray!
You are a very bitter man. You were turned down by the SNP as a candidate and have never forgiven them.
I’ve followed your tweets on twitter and laugh at you now. I was at the HOF rally in Glasgow on Sunday and was surprised that you didn’t follow up your complaint there. Afraid that you would get booed?
@Craig Murray
I think it’s a question of priorities. Which is more important, Sturgeon, Campbell, me, you, The Rev, history – the historical Iraq War, the Second World War, the Jacobite rebellions, the riots in Edinburgh over the Acts of Union?
Or the future – Independence?
For me the answer is very simple – it’s Independence.
@yesindyref2 6:48pm
Fundimundilly yes
A few evening links
SNP’s Westminster Parliamentary leader Ian Blackford: “Politics is broken. Britain is broken. I’m not sure how the Tory Party or Labour Party could fight an election… I would relish an election.”
Video & link to the show. Warning Ian is talking to Hartley Brewer
link to twitter.com
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Peston says
It looks as though Meaningful Vote lll comes back from the dead on Friday. That is what cabinet expects. Goodness knows if PM gets her deal across line then. Looks challenging, to put it mildly. But I feel so emotionally bludgeoned by all this I cannot bring myself to forecast
link to twitter.com
Get set for Brexit: Indicative Day – the one where the Grand Wizards turn on each other
link to archive.is
House of Commons today
Colin Clark Tory mp for Gordon says that foodbanks are a good thing. I remember Batshit Jill saying the same in the past.
If we continue to have Tory governments no doubt they will bring back the poorhouses etc and say that is a great example of a successful economy and a caring society.
K1: “Papers ‘seem’ to be citing MacFarlane’s ‘opinion’ over Paul’s…”
I think that may be a good thing. As far as I know, for a defamation claim to hold water, it needs to be shown that the defamed had their reputation damaged, i.e some people believed the ‘defamer’. MacFarlane’s opinion is much more useful in this respect.
There probably is a good reason why the FM works around Westminster rules, because they’re the ones that govern us and you can’t make them not apply to us until you remove us from their application
I know there are folk who think the FM is moving slowly and I do too, but, and it’s a big but, if she moves too fast and loses it’ll be worse
The FM is methodical and precise, she’ll do flashy and splashy when the time comes, has everybody forgotten the Rock Tour already, when it comes it’ll be big and bold but more importantly it’ll win
@Dr Jim
Ach you get your moods, or I do anyway. Current one which won’t last, is “You sit there minding your own business and get shat on”.
Mind you, that could be Scotland’s Story …
yesindyref2 7:12pm
Sometimes ye cannae dae right fur daein wrang as aw wur grannies used tae say
Nicola gets her photie took with with people, hunners n
thoosands o them…disgraceful!!
Hahahhahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahhahahahahhahaahahahahhahahhahhahhaahahhhhahhahahhahahhhahahhahhhahhhaaaaaa!
ha!
@manandboy says: 26 March, 2019 at 3:58 pm:
… Theresa May just loves being PM, holding the whip hand over Parliament, and dressing up every day ‘to go to work’ at Westminster with her big red file-folder in the crook of her always left arm, presenting an image for the cameras and through them the impression in the Media that she is in control and diligently doing the day-job.”
Very observant, manandboy, and very true. The thing is May lacks that thing which distinguishes the Statesman/woman from the lobby-fodder. She simply cannot think on her feet. Neither can any of the Holyrood party leaders with the outstanding exception of Nicola Sturgeon. At Westminster the SNP has several who can – and who do.
everything Theresa does is scripted and learned like a budgie. Which is where the spurious claim of Strong and Stable stems from. Those who claimed it mistook, “Well Rehearsed”, and the inability to change course or compromise as being strong & Stable.
Weel noo they ken better.
Nana as i said the other day, the ERG will come onside for May’s deal as they start bricking it they could lose Brexit altogether, Ch 4 reporting the Mogg ready to vote for May’s deal and Boris making noises about doing so.
In other news Ch4 reports that Somalian Mothers who fled that country for London during the civil War are sending their now teenage kids back there as its safer than being a Teenager in London.
Patrick Roden 18:29 very well said , agree with everything you say.
Every time I look at Twitter (and I know I shouldn’t) I just want to invade England and secretly spread intelligence gas around the place
To be fair I feel like that about some places in Scotland as well
This comment is inspired by what has been going on in here since early afternoon. My own thoughts…
Nicola’s plan? Why would she, or the SNP, broadcast it in advance of “the battle” to come?
As others have mentioned in the past few weeks, there has been a change in utterances by Nicola, Ian Blackford and so on, since last year. How often, NOW, are we hearing the phrase, “Scotland will not be taken out of the EU, against the will of the Scottish people.”
As others have pointed out, for senior SNP MPs and MSPs to say that must mean something.
Have indications been given by powers outwith Scotland? Has the SNP been given legal opinion within Scotland?
To make those statements, without any backup, meaning that they could not be carried through, would result in a collapse of SNP support in the next GE, whenever that may be.
So, I think, for now, it’s a case of “watch this space”…
BTW…
From,
link to petition.parliament.uk
“Parliament will debate this petition
Parliament will debate this petition on 1 April 2019.
You’ll be able to watch online at parliamentlive.tv
Government responded
This response was given on 26 March 2019
This Government will not revoke Article 50. We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union.
Read the response in full”
@Dr Jim
Indeed!
I’ve got work to do, so I think I’ll play Railroad Tycoon instead. Just a year or so more careful train and cashflow handling and I’ll be able to finish double-tracking Scotland, and similar with the links into northern England to better use their resources and traffic and take their money 🙂
@Lenny,
seems to be the moves right now from the Tories willng to support her deal and
then along comes labour
link to twitter.com
@BDTT
I think Sturgeon has broadcast her plans very well – all of them!
Confusion to the enemy …
@Dr Jim says:26 March, 2019 at 4:55 pm:
” … Homophobia is a strange offence to be accused of because it seems you’re allowed to be homophobic until or unless someone complains that you are then it’s a hate crime.”
Yes, Dr.Jim, very reminiscent of the historical Witch Hunts of yore.
Those times when someone in the village pointed the finger at some old lady and said, “Witch”, and in came the, “Witchfinder General”, and the old lady was literally toast.
It was the, “I’m A celebrity – get me out of here”, or perhaps the, “Strictly”, of its day.
Well they didn’t have TV or even radio or the internet back then and after they ran out of virgins in the village to deflower what the hell else was there to do?
Brian Doonthetoon @ 19:37,
What you say is true, there has been a definite (and welcome) change of tone of late. I briefly caught Stephen Gethins MP being interviewed on CNN this afternoon and he made a point of saying that although the SNP have been striving to do right by the UK as a whole, the constitutional position of Scotland (and I paraphrase here) gives us the right to withdraw from this mess by ourselves.
Craig Murray @ 5.39pm
“”… have never urged people not to vote SNP. I just think we should ditch Nicola as leader. Her fondness for Campbell, Kissinger, Allbright and Clinton are a recurring theme and not what a radical Scotland needs, and she is much more interested in ingratiating herself with the UK political establishment than in Independence. Where is Indyref2?””
You state that her fondness for Campbell, Kissinger, Albright etc is a recurrent theme. Really?
Ms Sturgeon tweeted that an article by Mr Kissinger on Artificial Intelligence was a good read.
Ms Sturgeon tweeted a link to an interview Ms Albright gave on her new book about Fascism.
Ms Sturgeon voiced her support for Hilary Clinton in her campaign to become President, a campaign in which the majority of Americans voted for her, Mrs Clinton.
Ms Sturgeon had a selfie taken with Alastair Campbell. Is that your definition of cosying up to the British Establishment?
If you have evidence of the recurrent theme with regards to Ms Sturgeon’s behaviour then please provide it because all I have found is detailed above.
As to your question about ‘where is indyref2?’ well if you, and others, had been paying attention you would have realised it has been going on for some time. It is not yet in the shape and form of the first indyref2 but it is certainly happening.
The Growth Commission report and the debate around it, the currency and the debate around it, the visits to the EU and the connections being established to make the EU more aware of Scotland, Independence etc and thus ensure the EU’s information is not coming from the MSM and UK Government. All building the foundations for the campaign to come.
As to Ms Sturgeon and the SG campaigning against Brexit that has little to do with saving England but everything to do with protecting and promoting Scotland’s interests and fulfilling the instructions given to the SG by the people of Scotland.
That England might reap some benefit is a side effect but, as Ms Sturgeon has pointed out and most reasonable people realise, it is not in Scotland’s interests to have a basket case on its southern border.
Re the Revoke Article 50 petiton,
Callanan: “We don’t have government in this country by online internet poll. We have government by the ballot box and by this Parliament.”
WHAT? Is this guy off his rocker?
It’s a UK PARLIAMENT PETITION Website, set up by number 10 Downing Street itself!
We really are living in Alice land, through the looking glass, darkly.
No fan of Alistair Campbell, but agree that the future is more important than the past, and if even Alistair Campbell now sees independence as the best way forward.. it all plays a part in converting previous no-voters to reconsider, if the yes vote stays united. Cosying up to him in that photo wasn’t the wisest decision though.
Would rather JK Rowling saw the light, but she’s too deeply embedded in her Britnat trench, even a hard no-deal Brexit wouldn’t shake her out.
Lenny Hartley @ 19:30,
I’ve been fearing the same for some time now, and the probability has definitely increased with the likes of Rees-Twat now using the eerily-familiar phrase “Brexit is a process not an event”.
The stumbling block to “success” now appears to be largely in the hands of the DUP.
Which is right back where we once started.
@Craig Murray says: 26 March, 2019 at 5:39 pm:
… What I find genuinely scary is the attitude members did not ought to be allowed to criticise the leader.”
Absolute Balderdash! Members do so often. Thing is they do so correctly where such criticism can, and does, have some effect and that is in the branches and constituency associations throughout Scotland. What’s more you know that to be true.
No leader or elected to office SNP person can make party policy by themselves. In the SNP party policy can only be made, changed or amended by the delegates sent to National Conference by the members and every member, including Nicola Sturgeon herself has exactly the same number of votes (one).
Members do criticise and members criticism does change party policy but people posting on open forums, or on their own personal blogs will have no effect on party policy but it will actively act against the independence movement.
As I’ve pointed out before, on Wings and other places, where else do you imagine the unionists gained the idea that they tried to push, not long ago, that the SNP were engaged in a civil war?
Can you honestly point to any other source of such a concept? You know perfectly well that doing so on personal blogs and open forums on the internet boosts the unionist moral and damages the cause of independence.
Furthermore, it raises the question of just why would someone who claims to support independence want to do so. Anyone can contact the SNP or the First Minister and Scottish Government directly and give their views, so why do so on open forums where it will have no effect upon the SNP but will aid the Unionists?
Gareth Snell MP, Labour – “Prediction:- Parliament will not find a conclusive answer that commands as stable majority tomorrow. The most ‘popular’ motions will be opposed by front benches of both Govt and Opposition because it does not reflect their own policy.”
If the indicative votes aren’t free, then they will falter. If the results are skewed by Lab and Tories whipping their MPs to tow party lines, then it’s all meaningless.
We know May and her loyal inner circle will do everything they can to stop MPs as a whole expressing their preference. But if Labour go down the same road and try to steer towards Brexit/CU/GE by whipping it will be adding to the chaos, not trying to resolve it!
The next couple of days will be interesting, I hope.
@Craig Murray says: 26 March, 2019 at 5:57 pm:
” … I had no idea I was not allowed to express an opinion unless the majority of my branch agree with it. Could you pint out to me the bit in the party constitution where it says that?”
Oh! Stop trying to split hairs or even downright lying. No one has said you cannot express an opinion and members frequently do at branch meetings. You know bloody well that no one has said there is a rule about it in the rule book. I cannot be an active member through being mostly house bound these days but when I was branch meetings could get quite heated. I wouldn’t think that has changed.
You, and others, are not being castigated for holding views of any kind, either for or against anything in particular. You are being castigated for not airing them where the have a chance of altering things within the party including leadership. That can only be done from within the party – at branch meetings. Which, by the way, requires that you have a seconder to any motion you care to propose. You can, as can any member, raise anything when the chair asks, “Is there any other business”.
But then you know that, don’t you?
Not only that but Nicola, or any other SNP elected person, can be communicated with via Internet address, email, snail mail. As can the party via their website. So the question is why do you choose to do so on personal blogs or internet open forums where even the most stupid person can figure out their criticism will have no other effect that to harm the independence movement and boost the unionist cause.
You are an intelligent person, Craig. You know all this to be true. What then is your motive?
@Robert Peffers
I know your “no criticism of the SNP in forums” campaign Robert and disagree with it, but agree what you say otherwise, and perhaps more to the point actual MPs have spoken out against the leadership in various ways, and from my time when I was a member you could indeed speak out against, well, anything, leadership if you wanted, HQ more generally (laughs) as some did.
@Robert Peffers
My branch didn’t actually have an “any other business”, what it did have was “any other constituency business” which is vastly different and inferior. Nice bunch of people, and dedicated. Those who attended, that is (5%). Anyways, that’s history 🙂
Yesindyref2 and Thepnr,
re the Constitution you need to look at the other sections – not just the constitution bit. e.g. the Law bit
Not sure I want to live in a ‘state’ with a prime minister – would prefer a more scottish word aka the ‘taioseach’ such as the ‘mormaer’.
Yes, I agree it is a bit wordy in places but interesting.
Nana re labour, how many plans can they have in a week! At the speech at the recent March Tom Watson said , we will support May’s plan if we can get a peoples vote, now we will support May’s plan and then we will go for Norway. Obviously the momentum behind a peoples vote has spooked them , I dont think they will need the DUP, enough Labour MP’s will vote for May’s plan.
Someone tell me if I’ve got this wrong.
The EU say the Withdrawal Agreement is fixed, final, and will not be reopened. The accompanying Political Declaration can be modified, the EU say.
The WA does not cover issues like Customs Union, Single Market etc., those future trading regimes would be in the PC. Yes?
Why then, are politicians and media describing options which include, say Customs Union, as just unicorns which can’t be achieved?
What a strange parcel of personal hostility to have to respond to.
Flower of Scotland,
I certainly didn’t get booed in George Square, and I did refer to the Alastair Campbell incident, in a pointed but lighthearted way. As with every pro-indy speech I have ever given, it was extremely warmly received by the crowd, as I am sure you witnessed. I take it you weren’t among the fold cheering, but there’s always one.
Robert Peffers
We can’t make policy at Conference either. Mrs Murrell’s husband makes damn sure nothing controversial is allowed on the agenda. At the Autumn conference, the word Independence occurred only once in the 38 page agenda and that was in the draft constitution.
I think Nicola is squandering the best chance for Indy we wll ever have, by her obsession with the state of the UK and with devolved government. I shall say that whenever I feel like it. If someone wants to characterise that as “civil war” thet are very silly. But maintaining a fascist like leader following in case we are seen as divisive does not appeal to decent people.
Onwards anyone who repents and accepts Independence should be welcomed with open arms. Even Alastair Campbell. Unfortunately Nicola’s big mate is still as vicious a deep state Britnat unionist as they come
Legerwood
Thank you for detailing for me the shameful history of Nicola’s endorsement of Kissinger, Albright, Campbell and Clinton. If you don’t realise that puts her well into the neo-con camp you are peculiarly unperceptive. Otherwise she would avoid that litany.
England and Wales voted to leave the EU. They are other countries. It is not our job to save the UK. The way to fulfil the mandate of the Scottish people is Independence, not stopping Brexit. Nicola has for three years given every sign of being more interested in her position within the UK than in Independence – most notably in the lacklustre 2017 SNP GE campaign
This is an interesting development, a general election gets closer by the day.
Prime minister would ‘break the law if she ignores Letwin result’
Looks like May has now run out of road and so have the ERG.
link to archive.fo
re. the apparently inaccurate reporting of today’s court events. What do you think the critical punk media might be saying about that?
PERSISTENT MEDIA BIAS
link to nyu.edu
Social Media, Political Polarization, and Political Disinformation: A Review of the Scientific Literature
link to hewlett.org
The Psychology of Anomie
link to espace.library.uq.edu.au
Durkheim and the internet: On sociolinguistics and the sociological imagination.
link to alternative-democracy-research.org
Craig Murray @ 21:01,
The defunct UK system is shaking itself apart at the seams in full public view, destroying itself from its own inherent contradictions, and you are quibbling about why the SNP leadership wants to let the circus continue for just a little bit longer to let it do so?
I’ve often said that 2017 was largely a wasted opportunity for the SNP, but now is most certainly not. If the indications were unchanged, I might agree, but they have changed.
Trying to attack the SNP leadership at this critical juncture is unwarranted, unhelpful and grossly self-indulgent. You are becoming as counter-productive to independence as Sillars. And for the very same motive, I suspect.
@Craig Murray
“fascist like leader”
Jings Craig, there’s no call for that. Have a different view by all means. but don’t be daft and unnecessarily insulting with it.
As for “her obsession with the state of the UK”
I think that’s more a self-portrait, frankly, including your obsession with Alistair Campbell, Blair and Iraq which most of Scotland were against (Iraq that is). Did you not notice this in her speech (and other):
“Speaking from a stage in Parliament Square, Ms Sturgeon said: “Scotland – the land where more than 60% of people voted to remain in the European Union – our voice has been ignored”
If she’s obsessed with the UK state, it’s getting out of it. While representing ALL of Scotland, and hence appealing to the NO voters. She’s First Minister of Scotland, not just the Independence movement. And with Independence the prime minister of the rUK (whatever it wants to call itself), will be a neigbouring Prime Minister. Whoever they get to pick. Same as Merkel, macron or whoever.
@Robert J Sutherland,
I suspect you are right on just about everything.
@Craig Murray
You are coming across as a spiteful old bastard with a personal axe to grind. It’s not a good look and I thought you wiser.
@Meg merrilees says: 26 March, 2019 at 8:58 pm:
” … Not sure I want to live in a ‘state’ with a prime minister – would prefer a more scottish word aka the ‘taioseach’ such as the ‘mormaer’.”
Ah! Meg, merrilees, now you may not believe this but it is in fact true. The office of Prime Minister is not what most folk think it is but it has become what most folk believe it is probably because most folk believe it to be so.
Yes I know that is a bit of a conundrum but I’ll explain.
The full title is, “Her Majesty’s Prime Minister”.
See here:-
link to history.blog.gov.uk
So legally, (under English Law), the chosen Prime Minister is not only summonsed to Her Majesty of the Kingdom of England’s presence and commanded by her Majesty of The Kingdom of England to form Her Majesty of the Kingdom of England’s Government.
Historically the term, “Prime Minister”, was a term of abuse by the parliamentarians who, remember rebelled against their monarchy in The Glorious Revolution of 1688.
Still to this day the Queen of England summons the selected person to her presence and commands that person to for Her Majesty’s Government. Now in practice I believe the choice of person is actually made by the Privy Council and it is really they, and not the Queen of England who chooses the person. The point is that legally the PM is her Majesty’s person in Parliament and the choice made by the Privy Council is usually the leader of the party gaining most votes but remember cross-party Wartime PMs and governments.
All of Which couldn’t work in an independent Scotland because it wouldn’t be The Queen of Scots PM as the Queen of Scots is not legally sovereign in Scotland.
yes indyref2
I meant, and said, that Robert Peffers was advocating “fascist like leader following” – ie following the leader in fascist style. It would have been better if i had hyphenated leader-following, I did not mean Nicola is a fascist like leader, which is evidently untrue.
Thepnr
I am defending myself from some very robust criticism for having criticised Nicola. Why is that a “personal axe to grind”? Genuinely don’t know what “personal axe” you mean.
Big tartan elephant in the corner ….
What indicative vote options should, and will, the SNP back/oppose?
Cancel A50, Remain, obviously.
But what about single market membership? That still entails being dragged out of the EU against our will, which has been the recent rhetoric. So the SNP MPs can’t be seen to facilitate that in any way, can they?
Worst case scenario
… didn’t finish.
Worst case scenario, the SNP are seen to add to the chaos by not supporting soft options which ail without their votes.
@Craig Murray
Fair enough, I re-read the bit and it’s just a little ambiguous as you say.
Anyway, for anyone who hates the British Imperialist state more than they hate Independence campaigners who are not fans of Nicola, this was a great deal of work:
link to craigmurray.org.uk
To those of you who think that the FM is overly concerned about saving the rest of the UK from Brexit, I say that it seems to me that she is merely making all the right noises for her intended audience. That audience isn’t you, isn’t me, and isn’t the rest of the UK.
@galamcennalath
I think the SNP do have to support the SM + CU option, as it was the thrust of their paper back in December 2017. It’s the compromise between 2014 “NO to Independence” and 2016 “UK Leave the EU”, which Scotland was 62% Remain, but for the UK to Remain in the EU.
I’m not too fond of that 2017 paper, though I can see the reasoning for it, but having pushed it, the SNP have to support it – unless something has changed!
It’s about representation and democracy, and at the moment the SNP (with Greens, PC and LibDems to an extent) are the only ones interested it seems.
Plus of course if the SNP go flat out to find a compromise – and fail miserably as most expect – they’ve done the best for all of Scotland, maybe even including the Leave voters – a Leave with SM and CU is still a Leave.
Threading the eye of a needle, basically. Needs good eyesight – or a magnifying glass and a steady hand!
Must be hard to try and make peace with contributors to mass murder like Campbell.
Mind you, talking peace with the RUF might come close even if somewhat lesser in killings.How about it Craig?
Craig Murray @ 9.01pm
You said of my post:
“”Thank you for detailing for me the shameful history of Nicola’s endorsement of Kissinger, Albright, Campbell and Clinton. If you don’t realise that puts her well into the neo-con camp you are peculiarly unperceptive. Otherwise she would avoid that litany.””
Those are the only occasions wheñ Ms Sturgeon has made any reference to these people and in quite specific contexts. By no stretch of the imagination do they make a ‘recurrent theme’ as you have claimed. In no way do they justify the froth you have spun from them or the course of action that you advise based on that froth.
Again I shall ask, what evidence do you have of a recurrent theme?
@Craig Murray
Personally I don’t hate the “British Imperialist state”, it;s been a foreign government to me since way before Devolution.
Just had a reply to adding my signature to the Revoke Article 50 petition – to paraphrase – “Nae chance – on her bike pal!”
Doh!!! – “YER bike!!!!!!!”
People die from crap (word chosen intentionally) US food standards.
Brexit: The Hidden Danger of Chlorinated Chicken. With Stephen Fry
link to youtube.com
This, among many other important issues, is what is really at stake!
@Craig Murray
You don’t post that often and when you do people will take notice as I also do. This was your contribution a few months ago.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
link to wingsoverscotland.com
There’s also your insistence that Nicola Sturgeon must sack Leslie Evans the Permanent Secretary to the Scottish Government over the claims of sexual assault by Alex Salmond. This is a power she did not have.
Most here that have read wings for a while know of your unhappiness with the upper echelons of the SNP over their failure to agree with your candidacy as a suitable candidate for office in the 2015 election.
You were right to have felt aggrieved with that decision back then and I fully supported you as a candidate, however now you are making criticism of Nicola Sturgeon a regular occurrence. Personally I do not see any point to that as an Independence supporter.
Cubby @6.38pm
Just catching up on today’s comments and found that you’re spraffing about me even when I haven’t posted anything.
I’m going to have to follow the Rev’s route and take legal advice. Online stalking is only for exceptionally wierd individuals.
For the last time, leave me alone.
@Craig Murray says: 26 March, 2019 at 9:41 pm:
” … I meant, and said, that Robert Peffers was advocating “fascist like leader following” – ie following the leader in fascist style.”
Well first of all, Craig, there was absolutely nothing fascist like in what I advocated. I was after all explaining how to NOT follow the leader by not damaging the cause. Secondly there is, perhaps, something in the theory that the first person in a debate who mentions, “NAZI”, i.e. fascism, automatically has lost the debate.
Now bear in mind I have been an SNP supporter during several rather damaging internal squabbles and several ejections of people from the party – including that of Alex Salmond and Margo McDonald. Not to mention the ejection of Seed of the Gael and other more militant groups. Do you actually attempt to claim that was fascism?
Now let me point something out to you. How do you feel being criticised here on an open forum instead of it being conducted out of the glare of public scrutiny?
Do you think it is more or less damaging to your reputation? Now I believe your arguments are failing to convince many here, and I may be wrong. It genuinely makes me sad for I have held you in high regard but cannot condone your obvious haltered of not only the FM but the party hierarchy also.
The choice is yours but the fact remains, the only person you damage by your criticism of the SNP/FM on open forums is yourself and it is counter productive as it will only turn people against you but not influence party policy in any way.
If you want to alter party policy, or even change party leadership, you can only do so from the inside. Oh! By the way as I have not openly expressed my views, as to whether I would support other than the current leader on open forums, is it not rather presumptuous of you to claim otherwise? Thing is if I were to express such views i would do so through the branch and with a seconder and if possible a group of like minded members.
O/T Ref Proposed Hydro Scheme in Glen Etive (as seen in the Bond film Skyfall).
Looking in Company House Scotland for GLEN ETIVE HYDRO GRID CO. LTD and for Charles William Tavener Dickins. Only one Director and only one Shareholder, one and the same ?
Are these all shell companies WHO really is behind all these schemes ?
Are Highland Council and the Scottish Government doing proper investigations on these activities as obviously Public money will be involved, grants etc.
Local communities are supposed to get a windfall from it, at £17K it seems a bit like pocket change ?
@the essex-missile…comedy gold !!!
Here’s a wee question. Does anyone have a theory about the way Independence is going, but would never express it in case the Unionists never thought of it? Not till after the event anyway!
@Craig Murray.
Were you not part of that “Deep British Nationalist state” you spend a lot of time accusing NS and the SNP of becoming part of ?
Now, i only know of you through your comments on here, and i would be genuinely interested to know why you think you have any semblence of moral high superiority on such a topic ?
Yesindyref2… I hav a theory.. but keepin it zipped so as not to tempt fate!
@indyref2 10.38pm
Me !!!
My theory is that, the SNP are going to…WAIT A MINUTE HERE !!!!!
I wish Stuart would separate Wings and his twitter. If his twitter was “Stuart Campbell” then it would be much more difficult for Unionists to smear the immensely valuable website by reference to the style and content of the former.
In his twitter Stuart lets himself go a bit, he’s not afraid to be sweary and give offence. He tweets forcefully and fearlessly on trans issues which are very dangerous territory. I read and appreciate it but from the Yes cause’s point of view. I wish he would be more careful, the consequences of pushing on Hillsborough, genderpolitics etc. are endless acrimony and spats.
I confidently expect Stuart to reply that it is his twitter and he will write what he wants on it.
Hoping very much that the defamation case is successful. Even if it is, the lesson is there – that the Unionist press will use the opportunity to smear and to give the impression that Wings is aggressive and foul-mouthed.
As the world is neo-liberal, it’s hard to do politics without having to rub shoulders or even strike alliances with undesirables. I hate the
Romansthe British Establishment as much as anyone, already, but I don’t think this is the time to be having such ethical debates.Brexit endangers the integrity of Scotland as a nation. That makes pretty much anything that is legal a justifiable course of action IMHO, if it gains more support for indy. I can’t be bothered looking out the appropriate meta-ethics, but I’ve been straight-up with folk so far. Don’t trust me though, trust your instincts.
Do you think the First Minister is a neo-conservative? If so, why is the government that she leads apparently implementing a “rights-based” approach to governance, which is accordance with global sustainability aims and the antithesis of the neo-liberal neo-conservatism favoured by Westminster.
@Katie / @Geeo
I’ll tell you mine if …
… oh wait, no I won’t 😎
I can reveal that I’ve had this theory for months now 🙂
Peter says:
26 March, 2019 at 10:45 pm
“I wish Stuart would separate Wings and his twitter..”
………….
Yet here YOU are, linking both, and with much negativity of course, can’t imagine why you would do that.
Post it on Stu’s twitter, if you must be a crushing bore, which seems the appropriate pace for such complaints.
This will be when you tell me you have been in the SNP when William Wallace was throwing stones at his big lairy pal huh ?
Indyref2 @10.56
Had my own theory for around 9 months now as well.
It looks very plausable going by the Strong Rhetoric coming from SNP politicians.
With all this talk about the dreaded neo-liberal neo-conservative not fascist Westminster tool, UK state loving mad selfie-taking right wing shoulder-rubbing non-independence supporting London lights blinded devolution job-loving Sturgeon, seems to be a good time to drop this into the mixer again and turn on the blender:
link to theyworkforyou.com
“Claim of Right
– in the Scottish Parliament on 26th January 2012”
RobertPeffers @ 9.40
my reference to Prime minister was as a result of the proposed new Scottish Constitution which proposes to call Scotland’s First minister a ‘Prime Minister’ I would prefer a more Scottish title.
Nevertheless your explanation is interesting, as always. Thankyou.
Yesindyref2
The important debate to recall is that from the H o C in July 2018 when the SNP called a debate on the Scottish Claim of Right which was acknowledged unopposed.
This will turn out to be a master stroke and is part of my reference to ‘things are falling into place’ in a tweet upstream and in my reference @8.58!!!
Craig Murray
I join with Legerwood and yesindyre2 in condemning your article – your own personal dislike of Nicola Sturgeon put forward in all its glory, is fine for you having your own opinion but is wholly unhelpful to independence; it puts everyone in the awkward position of either having to defend her or condemn her. The whole thing is unnecessary. No one needs it, what you see as an issue isn’t one, not BEFORE we gain independence. If you really think it an issue, why don’t you start a petition or write to the SNP and advertise that, or just do something positive? If you haven’t, then all you are doing is spreading bile. Harmful bile. She’s a politician ffs, it’s what they do, get a grip.
Then again, I wouldn’t say much of what you write is particularly helpful to independence, but your blog usually has interesting contributions in the comments. So, having dismissed your blog as supporting that imperialist deep state that I don’t need to read, I find I can’t even browse through Wings comments without you are here spreading it further!
What exactly is your purpose in writing – what is it you want to convince everyone of? What on earth is the end game? Everybody KNOWS what she’s said and done, and she will be judged by everyone at the next next election. You think she’s going to sell us all out? Well, so be it, but the SNP are the only game in town just now and that’s who they have chosen as leader. Your judgemental moralising is only that. SO WHAT if she wasn’t squeaky clean? You think it’s your moral duty to tell everyone, like they haven’t noticed?? And, really, in context, compared to the Westminster cesspit, you are conflating something that is so far away from being even the start of an issue at this moment in time I can only conclude your motives are not to be admired.
@Contrary
Well said and to the point. I’d hope it stings but have my doubts.
I realise Mr Murray and a few others criticise the leader of a political party and seek perhaps a change. Fair enough, I’m wondering the reasons though?
As a passing conversation, it’s fair game, it probably falls into the ‘Here is what I think” discussion category.
Does it fall into the “Here is a way I believe we can improve our chances of gaining independence, here are the particular reasons”? Or does it fall into the category of “I am seeking to force a change of leadership within a political party and in the absence of support within the party hierarchy, I seek to mobilise support from the wider SNP membership as leverage” ?
If the latter,then it’s really party politics and political canvassing, which I’d suggest is anathema to the Independence movement here. Perhaps this perception is why it is irritating to many people.
There are 30% of the electorate who don’t give a shit about political parties, they came out and voted in 2014 though and 2/3rds of those votes kept us in the “Union” – Better to discuss with them “Why independence” rather than “Vote for X as SNP leader” – Convince them and any old “pop-up party” standing on an Indy manifesto will carry the day. What would the SNP say about that, whoever their leader – “Don’t vote for Indy”?
Mr Roden,
I am very sorry, I have to ask you to withdraw your accusation that I am an anti-semite, or I will sue you.
I do indeed regard Israel as an apartheid state very akin to South Africa. That is a very common view in the SNP – of which I remain a member. I criticise a great many states all the time, most usually the UK and the USA.
Dugdale is the defendant, not Stu. He’s suing her.
It’s her ‘defaming’ of him that is under the spotlight here, not Stu’s twitter feed.
(People can’t have it both ways, can’t praise him for being who he is in terms of the independence movement and the gains we have made because of him ‘and then’ complain when ye don’t like the way he goes about it…which ironically ‘is’ who he is in terms of the independence movement and gains we have made because of him)
Peter@10.45pm
” the unionist press will use the opportunity to smear and to give the impression that Wings is agressive and foul mouthed”
Peter – surprised you haven’t noticed if you read Wings regularly – Wings can be aggressive and foul mouthed – so I guess on this rare occasion the BRITISH NATIONALIST MSM will actually be telling the truth. So what’s the problem. Is the problem that the Britnat press don’t like telling the truth.
@Meg merrilees
Both of them I think, what is now a matching pair. The 2012 one in Holyrood was at a time when Cameron seemed to be wanting to take over the Indy ref – or maybe even “deny” one. It added to (or pre-dated) this:
“Gavin Anderson et al: The Independence Referendum, Legality and the Contested Constitution: Widening the Debate”
link to ukconstitutionallaw.org
Oh aye, I forgot, my point was more about Sturgeon! Read what she says …
yup, she doesn’t support Independence. Oh, wait …
@Meg merrilees says: 26 March, 2019 at 11:10 pm:
” … Nevertheless your explanation is interesting, as always. Thankyou”
Aye! Meg, I like to throw into the ring those little bits of history the Westminster Establishment, “don’t want you to know that”. They are not so reticent, though, about historic laws of such as Henry VIII when it suits them. I notice I am not alone in so doing. Upthread is a reference to the Nicola Sturgeon Claim of Right debate in Holyrood.
That’ll be the Claim of Right that the Westminster Establishment and their bought and paid for media claims to be, “Scottish Popular Sovereignty”, and not a real sovereignty at all. I have a wee niggling suspicion that this just might be the unexpected legal move that the SG are going to make while gulling everyone, especially the false flag unionists, who think it will be an indyref2.
Thing is it has been passed and accepted by a cross-party Holyrood SG and is, after all, right there in the Treaty of Union.
Let’s face it there is much merit in doing things through the courts when you have a cast iron case and the written evidence to back it all up. The only question is – which court?
I have a theory that the SNP have a lot of theories about what to do about gaining Scottish independence. The best thing about it is that it is driving the Britnats mad not knowing what or when something is going to happen. Keep them guessing.
That’s just my theory of course.
Craig Murry
What I’d like to know,is why you seemed to automatically assume that it was Nicola Sturgeon who was “being seen ” with the Alister guy?
If you take the view (as I do ) that Nicola and her team are working towards being the most credible politicians,both domestically and internationally on this island!
Could it not also be a fair interpretation that HE is the one who is trying to be seen with HER?
Which put a whole different (pardon the pun) spin on what was going on.
This guy may imagine he could manipulate further contact with the First Minister,from which he could be again relevant.
Time will tell of course,but he strike me as the one who needs to be near power,she doesn’t come across like that at all…
So again Craig why do you think that she wanted to be seen with him, as opposed to just being polite to another Westminster hinger oan?
Let’s face it, those people whom we most need to convince that their best interest lies in an independent Scotland, and not in the UK wonderland they voted for last time, are paying attention to Nicola Sturgeon. They are not paying attention to Craig Murray.
Nor to the Bella exceptionalists either.
Just not worth spending more of our time and energy bothering about, really.
(And their easy day in the BBC limelight looks like it’s gone as well.)
@Craig Murray
Are you drunk?
Hah, thanks Thepnr, I think you are right, the hide of a rhino there.
I am just furious, after John’s similar condemnation & insistence that it was IMPORTANT but then refusing to take any action, or listen, and refusing to see the harm it causes. Supposedly intelligent people. Full of their own self importance more like. On a hobby horse of moralising and agitation. (I’ve deleted the rest of the rant 😉 – I could go on for hours)
Independence is our end game.
Any other distractions which undermines and damages that end will not be forgiven.
Worrying about a selfie is well, inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
Thepnr
Of course I’m drunk. it’s midnight. What a silly question (hic).
Nobody knows what Scotland’s First Minister and the SNP are going to do next so everybody’s guessing
Isn’t it great, she’s back to being *The most dangerous woman in Britain* again and all she’s done is smile
Actually I know what’s coming but the FM made me pinky swear I wouldn’t tell
You can’t go back on a pinky swear Jeez!
In 2014 Scotland voted to remain in the uk.
That is a REALITY that has to be dealt with.
IT is being dealt with!
It will be dealt with!
Scotland will be indepenadt!
If u don’t like it then, …. … fill in the blanks
don’t fire them
@Craig Murray
Well Craig mibbee time for bed. Threatening an ordinary poster on Wings that he will be sued is not a good look. I’d guess that much of the support for your fundraiser that you got when you were sued came from Wings readers and posters.
I’d stake money on it that it did, I’d hope that you could accept that people can disagree with you without threatening them.
Essexexile@10.24pm
See when you are taking your legal advice please remember and tell your lawyer all the nice words you have posted about me. It may save you a few bob in the long run. Alternatively, since threatening to sue people seems to be in vogue tonight I will formally ask you to apologise for all the offensive comments you have made about me.
Online stalking – you are the one who read my post – you can start by apologising for calling me an exceptionally weird individual and then work your way through all the other offensive comments you have directed at me.
Thepnr
Of course people can disagree. They cannot call me an anti-semite and anybody who does that, anywhere will be sued. That kind of libel is very serious and is not just friendly argument.
You know that very well.
Craig Murry @ 11.48
Ah see…. There my point in a nutshell Craig…
You see midnight,I see 11.48 🙂
It’s like *Love Island* on here tonight
Wings over Scotland 18/20 club for fun and frolics all day every day
Pool and Jacuzzi extra terms and conditions apply
Of course if someone from the FM’s security team had realised that there were in fact ‘bad’ people on the platform, we all know they shoulda thrown themselves in front of the FM to prevent any kind of photographic ‘exposure’ taking place.
Don’t diplomats have to shake hands wi rotten bastards in the course of their jobs?
Do PM’s embrace rotten bastards for politcal ‘reasons’?
Are there a lot of rotten bastards in politics?
If the FM and by extension the SNP have to ‘align’ over a ‘particular issue’ with rotten bastards in the course of getting what is best for us in Scotland, does that now mean she’s a rotten bastard?
I think everyone can see where this is all heading.
I’d understand the argument if photo’s were proof positive of rotten bastardness, but they aren’t.
Perhaps post independence Nicola won’t be the FM. That’s up to the people of Scotland to decide…then. But right now? She’s not the issue. And she’s certainly not a rotten bastard.
Haha! P’rick Roden’s comment got deleted nice and quick.
Craig Murray@11.57pm
I assume you are referring to Patrick Roden’s post. I read the post and don’t see where he said you were anti Semite but that is just my take on his words. I am not an expert on the current definition. Perhaps you should clarify why you hold this opinion?
Well, just to add to the mix, I nearly turned to supporting the union too for a brief spell there, when I saw the radio 4 tweet headline, via the Irish Border tweet feed,
link to mobile.twitter.com
It looked like (in my excitement) the UK government was going to give us the choice of not changing the clocks! No more clock changes! I didn’t realise I was so passionate about the issue. Anyway, it turns it it’s actually the EU that’s going to give everyone a choice. Hah, I must have been delusional, the UK government giving us a choice, ha, ha. They are even stopping the EU from giving us a choice. Anyway, as always, better to have ourselves independence first, THEN think about the things we are passionate about, otherwise there are no choices.
As you’re here RN, I take your point wrt MacFarlane’s opinion. Though I still maybe counter intuitively feel that Paul’s supports Stu’s case more as he’s saying it wasn’t ‘homophobic’, which is what Dugdale is accusing Stu of?
Has craig changed his name to sid?
link to youtube.com
@ Craig Murray and others
If Alistair Campbell was to do a “Mea Culpa” and be filmed by Phantom Films – My way to Yes”, then I’d be willing to listen and give him the chance to atone and to “WORK” for independence.
I don’t think we’re dependent on his vote but I wouldn’t want to waste the chance to see a sinner openly repent. 😉
Cubby, Patrick explicitly said it. Stu has taken down the post if RN is correct in gloating about it’s removal. 😉
Reluctant Nationalist
That causes you amusement? Why might that be and why do you think it funny? I’ve got a theory, would you like to see it?
Graf Midgehunter
I wasn’t ignoring your re-post the other day, I hope you saw my reply to your original.
I want to see it Cam 🙂
@K1
The post as I remember it referred to anti Israeli comments by CM, I saw nothing at all anti-Semitic but then I wouldn’t know if it was unless it was glaringly obvious.
Is it now by definition mentioning anything against Israel anti-Semitic? Is it that they cannot be criticised?
I think we in danger of losing the plot now over what you can and cant say about any controversial topic. That includes criticism of someone who criticises something, just because.
K1
Are you sure? It’s big and it’s scary but I suppose it’s past the watershed. Wings can’t expect to be immune to the activities of political extremes active in Britain today. There are some particularly maladjusted individual among us, nudge, nudge. 😉
I saw anti-semite or anti-semitic, can’t remember which though. Missed the “sue” comment all the same 🙁
Rev’s on the ball, but you gorra laugh innit?
Oh, FFS. Threatened lawsuits and all now? Handbags at dawn?
Craig.Murray.isn’t.important.
Whiny noises off-stage, accompanied by furious foot-stamping.
By engaging with him on here we just give him more attention and more opportunity to cause the distraction he so evidently craves.
Thepnr
I saw the comment and it concerned me, as it opened up a whole can of worms for both the Rev and Patrick. It was an error of judgement and I would hope Patrick is able to reconsider and act accordingly.
As I said Thpnr, It was explicit, no need for Rev to take it down if it was ‘more nuanced’.
I was struck by it, overt.
——————–
Aye c’mon Cam…lol…wink wink 😉
Nice one – Joanna Cherry QC MP has lodged a motion to be debated tomorrow at HoC – Revoke Article 50 if no deal has been decided 4 days before leaving the EU. This is a good move – and has cross-party support, as well as full SNP support. It means the SNP has done everything in their power to stop disaster befalling the UK, it means they are able to gain support from other parties in that place, so whether it passes or not, the SNP have gained a notch of influence.
K1
That was it. Deflated. 🙁
Contrary @ 01:01,
That’s what is called “doing the day job”. Something actually concretely constructive in the House of Clowns.
But Labour will probably abstain. =sigh=
In fact, I see that Stu not long ago retweeted a rumour that Labour might even be considering whipping its MPs to back Brexit and MayBot’s “deal”. It’s a strategy to head it elsewhere, y’see.
You couldn’t make this stuff up…
Ah knew what you were driving at…was just enjoyin’ the banter Cam 🙂
CM. Scotland’s First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has stated clearly that the events of the last 3 years have strengthened the case for Scottish Independence and that no matter how Brexit goes there will most likely be an Independence Referendum.
SNP MPs have stated forcefully in Westminster and on the media that Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against its will.
And finally, there are many decent folk who want Independence for Scotland, our Scottish Government included, who do not want the devastation for the folk of England, North of Ireland and Wales that Brexit would cause.
Brexit is bad news for the whole of the British Isles, mainland Europe and probably a lot of the World and it makes excellent political sense for our Scottish representatives to all do they can to prevent Brexit happening at all.
We are well on our Road to Independence and I am glad to see Nicola Sturgeon and our SNP team paving our way to Independence with integrity.
K1, I agree, Paul is more supportive and useful to the case overall.
Brodie, darling, does your theory have anything to do with me imagining the look on Roden’s face when he recalled a certain Jake Wallis Simmons before spamming the Wings inbox with delete requests? Well you’re WRONG, it’s because I’m an anti-semite.
CameronB Brodie says:
27 March, 2019 at 12:29 am
Graf Midgehunter
I wasn’t ignoring your re-post the other day, I hope you saw my reply to your original.
———————————–
No probs CBB, I do have a habit of posting late on a thread because of playing catch-up most of the time. (Work..!) That means I do check what was posted on the previous thread or late at night/early morning. 🙂
Reluctant Nationalist
Really, straight up?
Graf Midgehunter
I thought that might be the case. 😉
May aye throw this into the mix, these are cliff-edge Brexit music videos
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
Cheers to yer previous 100 comments, Wingers, Yes is coming!
Hey Cactus, I like that Queen line rider.
Annan early Scottish morning welcome to all the new Wings readers
Are you following the case… here’s one for you freshers
link to youtube.com
Morning silverbuick, aye there’s a whole series of em (unlike Brexit)
How’s yerself this fine marnin’, the 12th of April will fly in
Listenin’ to the wireless radio
Police numbers in Scotland, too low, but ”
From PDF “Police Service Strength – Parliament.uk” Table A6 towards the end:
link to researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk
Country, police per 100,000 population (2016 eurostats):
Northern Ireland – 382
Scotland – 322
England & Wales – 212
but
“increased demand for mutual aid in England, Wales and Northern Ireland”
So why are we paying for our police, to go down to under budgetted England, decreasing the number of our own officers available?
Why can’t the UK Government which is responsible for the police budget in England and Wales, simply increase the budget by 50% to increase the numbers by 50%, from which we get Barnett consequentials of nearly 10% of the incease in their budget, and can hence get more officers ourselves?
Why should the Scottish taxpayer have to subsidise the UK Government – yet again?
Am I missing something here?
Mornin’ yesindyref2, yer right that’s no right wae that, how’s yerself
Here NOW BE a bitta No Deal Brexit housekeeping…
link to howmanydaystill.comlink to howmanydaystill.comlink to howmanydaystill.com
It’s all a goin’ on
Hi Cactus
Having spent every penny I can get my hands on with pre-Brexit supplies before tarrifs, delays and maybe a pound at par, I should be working flat out to be ready to sell and do business to put beans on the toast, but instead of that I did a mammoth Mother’s Day tidy-up. Just as well, I missed last year for some reason!
The police thing is strange, you’d presume it’s “mutual”, maybe things like Gx conferences, Commonwealth Games. I’d like to see an accounting for it all the same.
And finally…
Wanker
Some people have just got to post that final comment of the night.
Seems the same guy tries to do it night after night.
Lol
Wanker
And mornin to you Cactus.
More sounds mate, more sounds.
Oh, Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side.
The summer’s gone, and all the roses falling,
It’s you, it’s you must go and I must bide.
Scottish Parliament to vote on whether to revoke Article 59 today!!
link to archive.is
Political representatives of the Sovereign Scottish Electorate knocking down another constitutional domino.
🙂
revoke Article 50
James Barr Gardener at 1034pm,
Good point. The hydro scheme at glen etive, really needs investigated in some depth.
Personally I canot fathom why ANY government of such a beautiful and well known location would even dream of authorising such industrial work.
And the question I would ask is this, WHO BENEFITS? The people? The country? or just some hidden foreign or otherwise fat cats.
The whole thing stinks. Totally stinks.
On other matters, I do think some folks on here need to calm down regarding Craig Murray. He just sees things from a different perspective. You cannot expect everybody to see things just how you see them. And that doesn’t mean I necessarily agree with him. Talk of anti semitism is just silly.
Get out and take in some fresh air, take a deep breath. Isn’t Scotland lovely. And the world keeps turning.
Jockaneese at 0711am,
Well that vote will be interesting. I wonder what Labour will do????
Yet another positive step.
Jockanese Wind Talker @ 07:11,
Oh what fun.
How d’ya reckon NorthBritLab will vote on that, then?
Will they
darebother? Or is the Bain Principle still alive and festering? (Besides Neil Findlay, that is.) =grin=Links
link to gov.scot
An MP is using the example of a Jersey restaurant ordered to pay £30 to a failed kitchen job candidate after a three-hour trial shift to bolster his fight to illegalise the ‘exploitative’ practice in the UK.
link to archive.is
Make sure you visit Prof John’s site for all the good news stories you will not see anywhere else
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
link to theorkneynews.scot
Would the SNP back a Norway-plus #Brexit option?
video
link to twitter.com
link to businessforscotland.com
Article of opinion: BREXIT: AND WHAT NOW? By Pilar Fernández
link to pilaraymara.com
link to freemovement.org.uk
Tick tock goes the clock…
link to facebook.com
Scotland’s vital peat reserves are under threat from the damage caused by intensive muirburn on Scotland’s grouse moors adding to the risk of climate chaos in the future while our land is scarred Sign & share if you agree we need to radically reform
link to twitter.com
oops
link to twitter.com
Strip DWP of responsibility for ill and disabled people, urges thinktank
Scathing report says trust has been shattered by sanctions and botched benefits reforms
link to archive.is
link to politics.co.uk
link to skwawkbox.org
MEPs approve sweeping changes to copyright law
link to archive.is
link to irishexaminer.com
Did the UK Government act unlawfully by extending Article 50?
link to publiclawforeveryone.com
link to prospectmagazine.co.uk
link to lbc.co.uk
I am told cabinet secretary Mark Sedwill and attorney general Geoffrey Cox informed Cabinet that if at the end of the Letwin process MPs pass a motion mandating the PM to pursue a new route through the Brexit mess – perhaps a referendum, or membership…
link to twitter.com
link to hansardsociety.org.uk
link to theparliamentmagazine.eu
link to buzzfeed.com
England’s academy trusts in a mess
link to twitter.com
link to bloomberg.com
It’s always been about party rather than the good of the UK
link to twitter.com
I’m at an event in Westminster by Brexit ultras the Bruges Group, and look who’s here to greet us…
thread
link to twitter.com
link to independent.co.uk
Splashing taxpayers’s cash
link to archive.is
It’s a close who’s most detached from reality, Theresa May or the Director General of the BBC…
video
link to twitter.com
This is a must watch.
link to twitter.com
US Reportedly Give Israel Green-light For Full-Scale War On Gaza
link to archive.is
Brian Doonthetoon says:
26 March, 2019 at 7:37 pm
This comment is inspired by what has been going on in here since early afternoon. My own thoughts…
Nicola’s plan? Why would she, or the SNP, broadcast it in advance of “the battle” to come?
That’s a complex question to answer, but in my case, it boils down to this. Sorry, it’s another long one, but frankly, I’m about done here anyway. I feel I’m losing ground to stupidity.
I believe the issue of Scotland’s Sovereign Independence will be determined by Constitutional law and international recognition of that Constitutional law. I’ve believed that from the beginning, even when I didn’t quite understand it.
WGD used a great word a few days ago to make a distinction between democracy and majoritarianism, and I firmly believe it is a fundamental error to bind Scotland’s Sovereignty to any democratic process or majoritarianism. Democracy is NOT a prerequisite of Sovereignty. Sovereignty is an absolute condition that is NOT dependent upon any democratic mandate. In Scotland’s case it wasn’t created by democracy, it wasn’t sustained by democracy, and it wasn’t “imprisoned” by the Scotland Act or Scotland voting NO in 2014. It won’t be “freed” by democracy either, because for as long as sovereign credentials can be disputed, the result of any “democratic” vote will be constitutionally inconclusive. It is ALL about Sovereignty, NOT democracy.
Heads up. Here is the essence of my whole beef with the SNP prevailing strategy….
Constitutional Sovereignty is the strongest weapon we have in our arsenal. It is the game changer. It is the card that when we play it, we win. Game over.
BUT! Sovereignty is not invulnerable. It can fail, not by democratic rejection (because voting no is just as sovereign as voting yes), but it can fail if “people” do not accept it or do not recognise it.
There is a subtle difference between a majority of sovereign people voting NO against Independence, and an inadequate number of people both in and outside Scotland forming the opinion that Scotland’s Sovereignty is legitimate. You can be a no voter and affirm your sovereign right in the process. A subtle difference, but a vastly important difference that is overlooked. You remain sovereign in the first condition, but your sovereignty can fail given the second condition.
By way of example, take the Declaration of Arbroath. In Constitutional terms, where was Scotland between 1320 when the Declaration was written, and 1328 when it was recognised by the Pope? (And dowager Queen Isabella). Sovereign, undoubtedly yes, because a sovereign Scotland had existed undisputed for the reign of 400 kings, so WHY was there any need for Papal recognition? The answer is Scotland needed the “international recognition” of its day… a type of arbitration which affirmed Scotland’s Sovereignty was legit, and also affirmed Scotland’s very existence as a Nation was safe from dispute and challenge. (Oh look! No democracy required!)
To get to the point, the longer Scotland prevaricates about Sovereignty and obfuscates between Sovereignty and democracy, the more we turn our game changing sovereignty into a weapon of last resort. It would be an absolute disaster for us to leave the issue of Sovereignty unargued, and undiscussed until AFTER a democratic process like a referendum. “Look, we won/lost the vote, but surprise! Surpise! We’re independent anyway because we’ve been sovereign all the time! Who knew?” (Who knew? – Evidently not us if we felt the need to have a referendum about it…but I digress).
To my mind, that strategy seems destined to make international recognition of Scotland’s inalienable Sovereignty a fraught and difficult process and the most difficult threshold to achieve. In essence, by planning to use our Sovereignty as an ambush tactic, and until lately that seemed to be what we were doing, we are maximising the bleak possibility for it NOT to be recognised.
Sovereignty should NOT be played like a secret Ace kept up our sleeve, because the observers at home and abroad whom we wish to be convinced of our sovereign legitimacy, will doubt that very legitimacy if it has come about by slight of hand or foul play. Opponents of Scottish Independence will squeal to the rafters, and suspicion concerning Scotland’s sovereign legitimacy, especially after its been amplified by the BBC, might easily resonate and ultimately compromise Scotland’s international recognition.
Even so, even in that worst case scenario, I still think Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty would still be the winning card, ultimately, but victory would be challenged, disputed, mired in acrimony, suspicion and ill feeling. We would invite upon ourselves years, indeed decades of legal test cases and disputes.
Far from being our ultimate defence of last resort, our “nuclear” option if you like, Scotland’s all conquering sovereignty should have been at the forefront of every argument from the beginning, every interview on TV, every statement in the House of Commons. 2016 should have been the Constitutional fulcrum.
Instead of every citizen in Scotland knowing their Constitutional birthright, the sad truth is awareness and grasp of what it means is a rare phenomenon in Scotland, with a vast number of our own people either Constitutionally illiterate, or worse, persuaded that the UK version of Constitutional Sovereignty has legitimate ascendency. I honestly think we need a Wee Blue Book initiative to change that, and better yet, a Scottish Government Constitutional Wee Blue Book.
Scotland’s Sovereignty, and more common knowledge of it, will corrode Unionism from the inside out because every Unionist in the land will know first, that Unionism is doomed to lose, and second, that Unionism should lose because it is a fraud suffered upon us. I would sow those seeds into the mind of every BritNat in the UK and let time do the rest.
Do you begin to see why I am so critical of the path we are on? Do you see why I get exasperated when people conflate Sovereignty with an IndyRef? I am not anti-SNP, regardless of what the McCarthism would have you believe. I am however heart sick of our “Constitutional Champions” who should hold forensic knowledge and unshakeable faith in our Sovereignty acting, speaking, and making decisions as if they haven’t a clue about the Constitutional ramifications.
For such a long time there was nothing. (Claim of Right not withstanding). The SNP ignored the Constitutional ramifications of 2016 and took it upon themselves to push for an “unconstitutional” Soft Brexit option. No light in any of the words, then suddenly, round about Christmas last year, quietly, they changed tac, and started to dispute Brexit and promote Remain which was finally compatible with the sovereign will of the people. Better yet, Ian Blackford actually uses the “s” word and begins to address Scottish Sovereignty in the House of Commons and on TV. At last!
Am I anti Nicola Sturgeon? No. It’s really not important to me. But in a heart beat, I would turn down the volume on the insipid “I don’t know the details yet” and IndyRef2, and turn up Ian Blackford and Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty to volume eleven and play it in the street until every man, woman and child in Scotland knows the truth that they are the sovereign citizens in their own sovereign Nation. – Because then, International recognition, even recognition from Westminster, will be assured and when it comes, it will be incontestable.
Do not be coy with our Sovereignty as if it is something to be ashamed of. If the House of Commons still finds a seat for the Remembrancer, maybe the SNP should start leaving space on their benches for the ever present manifestation of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty overwatching every single thing that goes on, and woe betide any motion or comment which displeases him. (Or her).
Traditionally, Scotland doesn’t do well when we take to the field in open battle where the might of our enemies can plan ahead for us and fully unfold itself to meet us. Scotland wins when we narrow down our battle front and channel the enemy into traps and bottlenecks where we can assert control. Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is the battleground where we shut down and contain the enemy, and take command of the battle on our terms. An IndyRef is where we engage with the British Establishment with its marshalled ranks of UK politicians, Civil servants, BBC propagandists, and Dark Money manipulators in full open order. We need to be smarter than that, but not so smart that the ordinary people are left out of the equation.
So, for the above reasons an IndyRef doesn’t really float my boat. 2014 was inspiring, and a pleasure, but we were cheated and we’ll be cheated again. We are always cheated. A ratification plebiscite after the event can take care of the democracy box… later. Win the people and it’s a formality anyway. But when there is no campaign to win the people, no campaign to articulate the Constitutional arguments, I despair. And then suddenly, from the stagnancy of our available options, we choose to open up our fronts to fight for a British People’s Vote?? I’m lost again. Have we taken another wrong turn here? Brexit should be making Indy a formality. Where are we going with this People’s Vote to overturn Brexit??
Get the Sovereignty into the back of the net. Stay in Europe. If we want to save England from drowning, and Yes, that’s an excellent idea, but we can do a lot more for our English friends from inside Europe reaching out, than outside Europe, cast adrift and floundering ourselves.
If this is how you’re determined to run the campaign, then so be it. But the only aspect of this campaign which has any relevance to me, are those tiny cogs and gears that move when you pull the lever for Sovereignty. Everything else is simply white noise to me.
@RL and @RJS.
Unsure which way British Labour in Scotland will bend (potentially a free vote or LABabstain).
Tories will vote against.
FibDems should vote for.
Regardless SNP and Green votes means it will pass.
In reality BLiS____d are an irrelevance.
@ Nana – that link to OpiniumResearch on leaders’ approval ratings:
Interesting part in @OpiniumResearch leaders’ approval ratings crosstabbed with voting intentions so you get leaders’ net result (approve minus disapprove excluding neutrals) among their own voters
May +44%
Corbyn +38%
Cable +45%
Batten +35%
Sturgeon +80%
No comment needed
The BTL comments are also interesting.
Illustrates the folly of arguing to replace Nicola as the SNP leader.
link to twitter.com
Morning Capella,
“Illustrates the folly of arguing to replace Nicola as the SNP leader”
exactly 🙂
@Contrary says: 27 March, 2019 at 1:01 am:
… Nice one – Joanna Cherry QC MP has lodged a motion to be debated tomorrow at HoC – Revoke Article 50 if no deal has been decided 4 days before leaving the EU.”
Only one wee problem there, Contrary. There are more motions than there is time for so only a few will be chosen for debate and voted upon. That choice of motion will rest with one person, Bercow.
He is, in theory politically neutral but is, after all a part of, “The Establishment”.
There is only one group at Westminster who deliberately and actively work hard to do themselves out of their places on the Westminster gravy train and they are the two independence parties. SNP and Plaid Cymru.
link to thenational.scot
The Scottish Parliament will vote on whether to back revoking Article 50, following a Scottish Green Party debate on Wednesday.
link to archive.is
Brexit: rats in a sack
link to eureferendum.com
link to politico.eu
B’tard canny find ah Vile Cybernat badge tae put on today gave oot thousands an thousands an canny find wan in the stock , acht weill Wings Tammy oan
@Nana
Mornin’ Nana.
Mr O’Brien pretty much nails it yet again I see. Now that’s how you do both contempt and confusion, simultaneously and properly. 🙂
On to a few more and a second cuppa.
@ Breeks.
I have not read anywhere a better explanation on why Scotland’s Sovereignty should have been front and centre from the very start.
I have just received an e-mail regarding the petition to have A50 revoked, the government’s response states that a democratic mandate for leaving EU will be honoured because 17.4 million people voted for it. Not even half of those entitled to vote. Is that really democracy in action.
I have commented here and elsewhere that Scotland’s weapons are not bombs and bullets, but the individual and collective Sovereignty of the people of Scotland, their power over the Crown and Scots Constitutional law. The Treaty of Union signed England up to respecting that. We are way past the point of deploying a referendum as a means of ending this union.
TALK UNION, THINK SCOTLAND’S OIL & GAS
link to heraldscotland.com
Let’s be very clear and very sure about this – At Westminster, the word ‘Union’ is a euphemism for ‘keeping Scotland as a colony, so that England can exploit to the Max the massive oil & gas deposits in Scottish waters.
Otherwise, England will be bankrupt on its own.
Re Craig Murray’s comments –
This is actually a sign of good health among the Yes movement.
Debate and differing opinions are a sign of strength.
Morning Macart, I’ve not had any breakfast yet so a coffee would be welcome right now. Hint hint for the man about the house 🙂
One more link
Very good thread here on today’s Indicative Votes
link to twitter.com
Morning Nana. The Israeli intention to bomb Gaza and if Hamas retaliate ,obliterate Gaza with the blessing of the USA is horrifying.
Very glad you include the poll which shows Nicola Sturgeon has burgeoning support – from most !
I get really angry with whingers who tell us she should be doing this or that or so and so would be better. I think the poor lass must be exhausted trying to keep informed of all events , options and devious actions.
The inmates now have the keys of the asylum. Will they find a way out, or will we have yet more havering and ridiculous posturing from that ‘most sophisticated electorate in the world’?
The independence movement needs LEADERSHIP and we need it NOW. Any takers for this vacancy?
Do some people never sleep but repeat and repeat. No respect. There is always off topic. When Rev Stu is away doing what he has to do. To be done with anti-Independence wasters. Like Dugdale et al.
Thieving. ignorant, arrogant liars who are harming people. The vulnerable, the young, especially women and children. They are too low life to even notice. So full of themselves. Milking the system. Useless liars. Dirty little liars embezzling and wasting public monies on other people’s misery. No wonder they need to called out through the Courts and every other way. Disgusting filthy liars. If it means that is the only way to get them to keep quiet with theur lies.
C Murray has fallen by the wayside and does absolutely no good at all. Another total hypocrite. The SNP members made the right decision when they did not select him. He is nothing but a trouble causer. A total irrational hypocrite. A deviant to the cause.
C. Murray who deletes and banns comes on Wings to criticise the SNP and members. They have done so much for Scotland more than any other. The SNP stand up for Scotland. People should join them not criticise them. They need all the help they can get. They do a first class job in every way. Despite constant irrational, nonsensical criticism, They are gods among people going by what went on before. Total local heroes. Yet all they get is lying criticism from some quarters.
If people are up for anything and want to support what is right. People who want to change things for the better. They should support the SNP and Independence in every way. There is now no other way to stand up for Scotland after years of tyranny, abuse and lies. Make no mistake about it Scotland is fight for it’s life. It’s very existence. Scotland has many friends worldwide, They will not let it happen. Thank goodness. Neither will the people of Scotland.
One more time. People in Scotland will have another IndyRef when it can be won. Scotland is going it’s own way in any case. Just vote SNP/SNP vote for Independence, just convince one other person. Job done.
Thank goodness for the Internet and Rev Stu, Nana et all. Thanks a Billion each and every day. Standing up to the lies. Total Heroes with many more beside.
C. Clark that imbecile. An absolute embarrament. Replaced local Hero Alex Salmond. Alex Salmond who gas done so much for Scotland all his life. An absolute gem of a person.
C. Clark and his associates sit is a £Billion Council office, in style for 60 councillors. An absolute disgrace. Millionaires supping in their cheap drink and sandwiches while othef people starve. Disgusting parasites. Overcrowded schools and lack of teachers. They have tried to close education down. Cutting additional needs teachers etc. Putting a steak on the whole education system. It is a disgrace.
Alex Salmond and others were going to build a specified, purpose built new Council HQ with community facilities in Inverurie. A central point. Sell the grotesque monstrosity for £Billion and use the rest of the public monies to build much needed schools and support essential services, The two job Tories got into power with the inadequate LibDem liars. STV. Once again lie, after, lie, after lie.
The useless malicious, unionists liars who can’t count or read a balance sheet. Supping up their free dinners. They are now as usual blaming everyone else. Especially the SNP Scottish Gov. They never take responsibility for their mess. Mucking about with a ridiculous parking topic of no relevant importance. Once again as usual. Killed the golden goose and complain they have no monry. A total and utter lie. They would rather raise Council tax instead of doing the right thing.
A bunch of blithering Tory- unionists idiots. Supporting Brexit to damage the Scottish economy while they fill their boots with public monies. Just hope they get their jotters next council elections. With their illegal, criminal funding donations. The electoral commission. The Pollsters led by an thieving, lying millionaire academic who lies for the Union. The manipulated, corruotn Polls.
Alex Salmond let down by three lying civil servants, with allegiance to the corrupt British State. The Westminster unionist Gov the cause of troubles here and abroad killing and maiming millions of innocent people. They are despicable beyond worrds. What the world has become because of them. Mucking up the world economy, They should be gone, especially in Scotland, The Brexit carry on. A complete and utter shambles. What a total mess. Vote SNP/SNP Vote for Independence.
Alex Salmond did more for Scotland than any other. Got the essential AWPR built after years of opposition from green/unionists wasting public monies. It had cut emissions 60%++. Journeys which once took 1hr 30 mins now take less than 30mins. Cutting costs fuel and energy. Increasing conductivity. Improving the economy immensely. Building wind turbines in the Bay. An eyesore for many but spewing out fuel and energy saving the public money like no other.
Lit up like magic at night. The disney effect Trump was accused of not wanting. The Golf Development still getting off the ground which will bring in much needed benefit to the economy. Mucked up by the green/unionist liars and their sychophants. Who oppose essential roads, ‘because people will go on them’ and reduce congestion, instead of wasted fuel, energy, time, money and emissions. Cutting 2 hours ftom people working day. A win, win accomplishment all around,
Thanks to the SNP putting £Billions into the economy and not wasting public monies. Putting it to good use. Same with the railways and other major projects. Not the Trams. An green/unionist debacle like no other. Still not rectified. Still an Inquiry. Costing Millions/Billion. Over budget. Complete lack of proper organisation. Now OAP from other cities can’t use their off peak travel pass on the Trams. They go without proper transport to pay for it. They should be compensated by use.
Thank goodness more people are waking up to SNP good governance and giving increased support. Thank goodness for Rev Stu, Nana etc. Thank goodness for the Internet. Standing up for Scotland.
Morning Dorothy, I’m probably at the same anger level as yourself.
The EU plenary are sitting right now debating last week’s summit and brexit
Alyn Smith was speaking a short while ago and said
“Leave a light on so we can find our way home”
He urges MEPs to be open to independent Scottish membership of the EU after #Brexit
@donaldtusk is among those who applaud him in @Europarl_EN Strasbourg
Here’s the live link as the debate is still on, later we should be able to watch again
link to pscp.tv
@ Craig Murray,
I did not remove my comment, but it was moderated out.
The owner of this site did not wish to take your threat on (fair enough) but I am happy to repeat my thoughts about you on your own site, so that you can sue me.
just let me know.
@Giving Goose
The sovereign right to dissent. The SNP has a quasi stalinist, Great Leader wing, probably something inherited from old Labourites, which we could do without. I do hope the party conference will not be suffocatingly stage managed. North Korea we are not.
O/T
I just noticed an advert on Facebook from “UK Government in Scotland” telling me wonderful things about the generousity of all UK funding towards Scottish lighthouses.
I’m supposed to be impressed.
‘M not – it’s shitey propaganda.
About Craig Murray’s comments, I would say that it is highly likely that Craig has himself had his photo taken with many people over the years who he does not agree with on a political level or who he doesn’t even like, as a politician you sometimes have to deal with the devil and are required to communicate with those you are opposed to, it’s what politicians do.
@Giving Goose
They’ve been running those ads for months, all over twitter as well as facebook. Spewing out crap like a muckspreader with no one at the wheel.
Last link for now
Amoral and venal: Britain’s governing class has lost all sense of duty
Would today’s ruling classes opt for fascism? Perhaps, if the price was right.
link to archive.is
The Sovereignty of the Scottish people has been discussed on this forum and many others. It has been presented and stated many times by our SNP representatives in the HOC.
However in order to enact this Sovereignty requires the majority of the Scottish people to back this up in an election.
Normally this would be done through a referendum as a democratic process. I can’t see any other way around declaring our Sovereignty than by having a majority vote by the “Sovereign” people of Scotland.
Maybe the question we should be asking the “Sovereign” people of Scotland to approve in a referendum is.
“Do you the Sovereign people of Scotland wish to be an Independent country and in the EU.”
A wee bit of our sacred leader`s speech at the million strong Peoples Vote Rally,
one of the great orators of our time,
link to youtube.com
That is a very-good post by Breeks at 7.47am.
In it he says something I have long felt, the SNP MPs ought to be stressing Scottish Sovereignty in every speech inside the Chamber.
I also feel, they ought to be reminding the other MPS: “We sit in the parliament of the United Kingdom, hence we sit in a parliament which came into being as the result of a Union of two inependenr sovereign kingdoms, and, as the Right Honourable member for Haltemprice and Howden, David Davis said recently: If a country inside a Union cannot end that Union when it feels it is no longer working for it, that Union is undemocratic.
“Scotland voted to remain inside the EU. England voted to Leave.
“Scotland being dragged out by England voting to leave is therefore undemocratic to Scotland, the other partner in the UK.”
They have to be reminded about the Union not working for Scotland.
TheItalinJob @ 9.29
Or mibbi…
Where do you want… (not think want) …. You’re Sovereign Power held Holyrood or Westminster.
If it’s Holyrood then it’s up to the MSPs to adjust/dissolve the current Treaty arrangements!
@Dorothy Devine
saba7 al kheir! good morning!
What is so sickening about the Gaza situation is that a proxy conflict is being played out. Hamas is backed by Iran. Iran is anathema among the Sunni states, Egypt among them. Iran’s official views on Israel are well known. Fatah which forms the government of the Palestine Authority shares that view. Fatah would be happy for Hamas to be bombed out of existence by the IDF. Of course the ‘collateral damage’ ie human slaughter arising from such would be useful propaganda in the Palestinian cause. The House of Sa3ud would be happy to be rid of Hamas too.
The State Dept. has learned from long involvement that in the ME nothing is ever what it seems. No black, no white simply plenty of ready-made opportunities to make more $$$ funded mischief. It learned that from the Brits, naturally.
On the other hand the American uni in Cairo is a beacon of civilized values, and does promote the culture of Egypt and the Near East. As I said nothing is ever black or white!
Bit like views on Nicola, sigh!
O/T If Labour, as expected, vote against revoking Article 50, they will be completely and utterly finished in Scotland (and the rUK, for that matter).
Many people like to paint Wings as an abusive site, so I want to make this one thing clear:
My comment about Craig Murray earlier that was moderated out, was in the context of my thoughts about why Craig was rejected as an SNP candidate:
It referred to how the media has been able to divide the Labour party over claims of antisemitism and I used the medias characterization of antisemitism as my guide to how Craig would be painted and how this would be used to attack the SNP.
I’m genuinely sorry that these exchanges between wings and Craig has probably damaged his credibility, as I see him as an asset to the Yes cause, and would not wish to do any damage ‘to the cause’.
I’m sure a lot of Unionist media outlets will be viewing his rants with great interest however, and it wont be long before he is invited into some studio or onto some front page headline to share his ‘thoughts’ with the wider public, about how Nicola is letting us all down.
Sad but so utterly predictable.
Nana says:
Very good article.
“There is no heroism here, just moneyed nihilism. There are no ideas, just reheated Thatcherism about low taxes and burning red tape. These people say little about national interest, but their ears prick up when it comes to compound interest.”
There are certainly some in positions of power who will now do anything for a fast buck.
I reckon the holier than thou pro independence supporters who are giving comfort to unionists by writing to The Herald criticizing Nicola Sturgeon for agreeing to a selfie with Alistair Campbell should realize that in order to win independence we have to attempt to find common ground with all sorts of people and not call Tories Scum for example.
As First Minister she would be have been slagged by many others if she refused to have a selfie taken with Campbell whom personally I have no time for.
If Sturgeon had changed her views on the Iraq War then fair enough but otherwise the letter comes across as petty.
A big day for politics at Westminster today starting with Scottish Questions at 11.30 am
Sorry, but there’s no denying that Wings-Original-Clique-Commentators are awful, with their Comment-Police and pile-ins If NS or SNP are criticised.
Yes, Wings transformed my beliefs about the MSM way back in his Podcaster days and beyond. His posts are amazing, enlightening and we wouldn’t have got 45% in 2014 without this site.
The official Yes camp was crap. That’s a fact. The current SNP leader is crap.
I’d love for Wings/Stu to find a way to bring us all together for #indyref2 as the in-fighting and arguing will cost us dearly.
For those wondering why Stu tweets regularly on the transgender issue.
This is someone who was phoned by the police for tweeting something the police said was offensive to the trans community – or at least were told this probably by some trans arsehole (copyright Rev Stu)
This thought policing has clear implications for a site like Wings.
link to twitter.com
Albuhaq, I have often wondered how we would react if someone decided to bomb our playgrounds , beaches , shot school children trying to get to school ,or threw farmers off their land and built settlements on land that wasn’t theirs.
I may be wrong but I get the feeling that Palestinians are the children of a lesser God.
Just been to the local COOP. Couldn’t see a National on display. So turned over 2 Times which were still left and low and behold one National hidden below the Times and with its front page turned over.
Can’t believe people bother doing these things.
@ Patrick Roden – your comment at 18:29 is still there. It hasn’t been moderated out. So I don’t know why people, including yourself, are saying that it has been removed.
While your criticism of Craig Murray is sharp, I don’t see any reason for it to be deleted.
Just a wee thought on the Alasdair Campbell selfie. I remember Alex Salmond inviting Campbell onto his show to argue about staying in Europe – precisely the same political objective as produced the selfie – and I don’t remember anyone, not even the unco guid, finding fault with that. Is it one rule for Eck and another for Nicola?
@raineach
Possibly. Nicola Sturgeon is leader of the SNP and is the current threat to the Unionists.
Alex Salmond on the other hand is on RT and not the MSM TV and is not seen or reported much on the MSM.
Philip Sim Tweets:
Day three of @wingsscotland v @kezdugdale at Edinburgh Sheriff Court. No witnesses today, we’re into closing legal submissions from both sides. Craig Sandison QC, for Stuart Campbell, up first.
Mr Sandison says this is a straightforward case – he says Kezia Dugdale wrote a defamatory article calling Mr Campbell a homophobe, and “anything else is smoke and mirrors”.
Today is going to involve a lot of references back to case law and precedent (so less emphasis on swearing and celebrity references, sorry twitter) – Mr Sandison currently going back through definitions of defamation
Mr Sandison says to accuse a person of homophobia would lower that person’s reputation in the eyes of society. “It is practically a given” that calling someone a homophobe is “a stain on that person’s character”.
Case turns on whether Kezia Dugdale was calling Mr Campbell a homophobe when she wrote about “homophobic tweets” (plural) and him “spouting” homophobia. Mr Sandison is arguing that this is a “reasonable, natural or necessary” interpretation of her language
Mr Sandison says that “absent any context being given to the statement” about “homophobic tweets” (so clarification that these tweets were not an “aberration” for the writer) it “reasonably and naturally” leads to conclusion that Kezia Dugdale was calling Mr Campbell a homophobe
Mr Sandison says his “job is done”; he says he’s established that something defamatory was communicated about Mr Campbell by Ms Dugdale. But he’s going to go through and address her defences too.
Mr Sandison examining Kezia Dugdale’s defence of “fair comment” (again via case law and precedent) – the “traditional” three-part test is that this comment must be a true, in the public interest, and fair. He says this is the test which should be used, not one of “honest comment”
Mr Sandison says Court must rule on what law in Scotland is (so current fair comment test), not what it might develop to be or what it is in England (the “honest comment” test). Kezia Dugdale might “honestly believe” tweet was homophobic; QC says that isn’t a fair comment defence
Mr Sandison says fair comment defence “doesn’t get off the ground” as article proposes *facts* not comments. Sheriff Ross asks if we’re heading into “murky middle ground” between the two; QC says dividing line can be hard to draw, but “homophobic” has “ordinary & natural meaning”
link to twitter.com
Mike Cassidy@10.17pm
I found it very offensive every time The Maybot said now is not the time etc for an independence campaign.. perhaps I should have complained to the police and asked them to speak to the Maybot.
Patrick , Capella is correct it is there ,absolutely no reason for it to be deleted.
Albuhaq , you might care to peruse a Nana link to the Irish parliament discussing Israeli behaviour in Gaza.
I like their style – no holds barred.
link to archive.is
“Amoral and venal: Britain’s governing class has lost all sense of duty”
Aditya Chakrabortty in the Guardian
In conclusion, the British Establishment is riddled with an addiction to protected power and the love of wealth, which have the effect of woodworm, penetrating mind, heart and soul. Dry rot to the core, intrinsically unsafe and on the verge of collapse. Scotland is waiting.
TheItalianJob@9.29pm
In 2016 the people of Scotland voted to stay in the EU. In 2017 the people of Scotland voted the SNP as the majority Scottish party in Westminster.
A referendum and an election both expressing the clear will to stay in the EU. That is the current position until a further election or referendum changes things.
A mandate is already there to stay in the EU. If Westminster takes Scotland out of the EU it rips up the Treaty of Union. Goodbye UK.
@Capella:
@ Patrick Roden – your comment at 18:29 is still there. It hasn’t been moderated out. So I don’t know why people, including yourself, are saying that it has been removed.
I don’t keep copies of posts I make, so can’t be sure, but I think I made a comment that has been deleted, so this is what Craig is bizarrely threatening to sue me for.
For a diplomat to start issuing threats before even warning someone is the signs of someone who has lost the plot somewhat, but I don’t take it at all personal.
It’s Craig’s hatred for Nicola, that is driving his anger, rather than anything I might have said.
It’s like being out on the town in Dundee, and your mate gets drunk and starts shouting at the polis, you want to help him but he’s acting like a complete idiot and won’t listen.
So, you just have to watch him get bundled into the back of the police van, and shrug as you watch him being carted off for a good kicking and a wee court case.
From that time on you know your mate is jail bait, and best avoided!
Quickish question; If Dugdale as she states, doesn’t think or has stated that Stuart Campbell is homophobic and it was just the tweet she was calling homophobic, then why use a newspaper article specifically naming Mr campbell and using her three questions to the FM doing the same thing?
Could she not just have written an article condemning homophobia on twitter and then asked the FM if there was any measures the Scottish Government could take to pressure or lobby Twitter into taking more action to combat homophobia on their medium?
Abulhaq@9.11am
“The SNP has a quasi Stalinist, Great Leader wing, probably something inherited from old labourites”
For the record I have never been an old labourite and I am not a member of the SNP but I want Scotland to be an independent country.
I genuinely asked you to explain why you think your continual negative posts assist independence. Your comments are the sort of stuff you get BTL in the Scotsman from Britnats. How does this help independence?
Why not try criticising the Maybot for a change. You might have noticed she is not doing a very good job at the moment. Is Sturgeon doing a worse job than May in your opinion.
You are entitled to express your opinion but others are also entitled to question your comments.
Jim@11.18am
Spot on – exactly what I thought. Hopefully the court sees that as well.
@ Patrick Roden – it is possible that you posted a comment which I didn’t see. But I was revisiting the thread regularly and didn’t notice anything unacceptable. I was quite surprised when Craig threatened to sue and assumed he had just misread your 18:29 comment.
Let’s not succumb to divide and rule tactics. The political upheaval that is consuming Westminster at the moment is more than enough to keep us occupied IMO. Session soon to kick off in HoC.
I have just been watching the Leaving the EU Committee take evidence from a very bright bunch of people.
Witnesses: Daniel Greenberg, Speaker’s Counsel for Domestic Legislation, House of Commons, Dr Kirsty Hughes, Director of the Scottish Centre of European Relations, Dr Simon Usherwood, Reader in Politics, University of Surrey, and Georgina Wright, Senior Researcher, Institute for Government.
Something rotten in the state of England.
In Scotland, we have Stu’s case in the final stage. Philip Sim is tweeting a commentary.
Protecting the reputation of the YES movement is theme of the day.
Capella @ 9.57
Nuff said.
I do wish people would stop this, the FM meets Theresa May regularly has pictures taken shaking her hand, same with Mundell, David Lidington, David Cameron, George Osborne ta da ta da
Does that make her a Tory Jeez!
Politicians like the rest of us interact with people all the time we might not share certain views with but we all behave in a civil manner or nothing would ever get done
Some folk have alternative reasons for stirring up stuff that’s not there for their own personal agenda, don’t let them draw you in to their gripe, look at things with your own eyes and draw your own conclusions and not the grumblings of attention seeking misery guts bent on division because they’re not happy about something else
The way I see it, Cubby, is that she went all-in against Mr Campbell in print and incoprehensibly, using Parliamentry privilege hoping to hurt him financially and in the hope that he would be shunned wholesale from the Independence movement through blackening his name any way she could.
All for a burning hatred of a man that calls and has called her out on every lie she has tried to convince the electorate with, sad, sad woman.
7.59 even
Here’s Alyn Smith’s speech from earlier.
link to twitter.com
@Dr Jim
Spot on. My thoughts are the same as your post at 11.33am.
Reading Philip Sims’ tweets this morning, I spotted a new one the Rev will need to use at the top of his explanation of what Wings is.
“Equal Opportunities Abuser,” a line used by Mr Sandison, the Rev’s advocate, is surely a keeper.
From last evening
Yes Rutherglen and Cambuslang held a Quiestion Time-styled panel at the Glencairn Venue in Glasgow on the 21st March 2019 to discuss the way forward to IndyRef2, the legal and political issues, and how we win.
link to youtube.com
Dominic Cummings, the Vote Leave campaign director …..
“Those of you in the narcissist-delusional subset of the ERG who have spent the last three years scrambling for the 810 Today slot while spouting gibberish about trade and the law across SW1 — i.e exactly the contemptible behaviour that led to your enforced marginalisation during the referendum and your attempt to destroy Vote Leave — you are also in the pirate category. You were useful idiots for Remain during the campaign and with every piece of bullshit from Bill Cash et al you have helped only Remain for three years. Remember how you WELCOMED the backstop as a ‘triumph’ in December 2017 when it was obvious to everybody who knew what was going on — NOT the Cabinet obviously — that this effectively ended the ‘negotiations’? Remember how Bernard Jenkin wrote on ConHome that he didn’t have to ‘ruin his weekend’ reading the document to know it was another success for the natural party of government — bringing to mind very clearly how during the referendum so many of you guys were too busy shooting or skiing or chasing girls to do any actual work. You should be treated like a metastasising tumour and excised from the UK body politic.”
… an interesting rant from the man who allegedly achieved the Leave win by questionable means.
@ Cubby at 10.58am
I fully appreciate your comments there on the mandates given both in 2016 in Scotland staying in the EU and the 2017 Westminster elections, both of which gave majorities to the Sovereign people of Scotland.
My concern is what if the Scots Government did declare these are mandates where the Act of Union can be retracted by Scotland and the U.K. is indeed dissolved how would this play out with the Scottish people in general. I’m not so sure this would be acceptable to them and could cause all sorts of ramifications.
My thoughts anyhow but I do appreciate yours and others views on this “touchy” and delicate subject.
I wish it were as easy as the views you have posted.
Dugdale not only tried to hurt the Rev during her rant in Holyrood. She tried also to use it by associating the Rev with the SNP, hoping any mud would stick. Never mind the fact that various Labour and Tories interact with him on twitter,often abusively.
No Ms Dugdale made the mistake of trying to score political points within her accusations to the First Minister, in what was poor judgement or advice..
@Abulhaq says: 27 March, 2019 at 8:51 am:
” … The independence movement needs LEADERSHIP and we need it NOW. Any takers for this vacancy?”
Whit!
Is that you really asking someone else to oust the First Minister and secure independence for Scotland while attending to the day job as well?
How come?
Are not you the only one with all the right answers and the sure and certain knowledge the FM doesn’t and just isn’t up to the job?
So why are you seeking someone other than yourself as our leader? When they may not have your sure and certain knowledge that you know best and the First Minister does not?
With your sure and certain knowledge that you are right and everyone else is wrong is it not your duty, as one of the people of Scotland, to step up to save your country/kingdom from this accursed union?
Aye!
Richt!
The argument about who you are photographed brings to mind the movie ‘Zelig’
‘Set in the 1920s and 1930s, the film concerns Leonard Zelig (Woody Allen), a nondescript man who has the ability to transform his appearance to that of the people who surround him. He is first observed at a party by F. Scott Fitzgerald, who notes that Zelig related to the affluent guests in a refined Boston accent and shared their Republican sympathies, but while in the kitchen with the servants, he adopted a coarser tone and seemed to be more of a Democrat. He soon gains international fame as a “human chameleon”‘
Now there are many in our society who are a bit like that – Mhairi Black reminded us of Tony Benn’s ‘weathervane’ people.
The FM is not one of them whether she is photographed with them or whether she reads what they have written.
I do not believe the FM to be a Zelig-like character!
Wow following Phillip Sim’s twitter, Roddy Dunlop QC just stated, “Paul Kavanagh’s attempt to cast himself as the “ultimate aribter of what is homophobic should be rejected”. Sheriff Ross asks if the same goes for Colin Macfarlane from Stonewall? It’s not for them to decide in this case, says Mr Dunlop.”
They are there as witnesses and although they wont be deciding the case they may have an influence on the result and having read some of the experiences Mr Kavanagh went through growing up I think he is well placed to be an arbiter of what is homophobic and what is not.
The man along with many others paved the way for people like Dugdale to safely state her sexuality without fear of getting bullied physically and mentally.
@ Bob Mack at 11.53am
Dugdale indeed tried to defame Stu, Wings and also implicate the SNP as supporters of Wings.
In doing so in the elected Scottish Government at Holyrood she proved to one and all what an abject fool she was.
It was a big mistake and now she is facing a court for her silly actions.
Mr Dunlop says Stuart Campbell “quite clearly does not like” Kezia Dugdale; he has been “extremely rude” about her. And “on the one occasion she calls him out”, he sues her – her, not the Daily Record, or David Mundell. Says court should view his evidence “with some care”.
————————————————————————
What a stupid thing to say why would he sue David Mundell in this instance
@Abulhaq says: 27 March, 2019 at 9:11 am:
” … The sovereign right to dissent. The SNP has a quasi stalinist,”
Utter pish!
Mr Dunlop says by his own submission Mr Campbell is a “public figure” – one who is “openly and caustically critical of anyone who opposes his point of view”. QC says this means “he needs a thick skin”.
————————————————————————-
No he’s not he’s caustically critical of serial liars like Kezia Dugdale
@Bob Mack
Yep, she used her three parliamentary questions to the FM not to talk about health, policing, education or even homophobia within Scotland and online just so she could attack one man!
The presiding officer should have stopped her in her tracks straight away.
Mr Dunlop says there is an irony in Stuart Campbell, “a master of calumny”, suing someone for defamation. He says SC entered the political arena of his own volition to fire “poison arrows” – he shouldn’t complain when one is fired back
————————————————————————-
If that’s the best defence she’s got she’s toast
@Nana says: 27 March, 2019 at 9:26 am:
” … They’ve been running those ads for months, all over twitter as well as facebook. Spewing out crap like a muckspreader with no one at the wheel.”
Great analogy there Nana. These people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
… Would today’s ruling classes opt for fascism? Perhaps, if the price was right.
link to archive.is
Sheriff Ross asking if accusations of someone being a homophobe transgress the limits of fair criticism; Mr Dunlop says we’re “a world away from that” – he says Ms Dugdale was writing about “twitter activity” conducted in public, about public figures
————————————————————————
No she wasn’t
I used to think KD was worth saving if she came away from the dark side, but she is just another self righteous stubborn unionist.
People who throw mud tend to have dirty hands.
@Dr Jim
It’s not just the silly Alistair Campbell with some, including people I’m sure are totally genuine. It’s the idea that Scotland should honour our 62% Remain vote, and never mind the rest of the UK.
Looking back, at first I thought Brexit could be OK for the rUK even if not for Scotland. They’d go out bravely into the world and plough their own furrow. The UK did it before the EEC and EU, after all. And we in Scotland can go our own way, quite right, we voted 62% Remain.
Back in say 2012 there was a leave the EU website which proclaimed the UK could join EFTA + EEA, and enjoy similar terms while not being so restricted. It sounded good. But then it quickly became apparent EFTA wouldn’t want the UK as it would be greatly bigger than the existing ones and would try to shout the odds. Which could destroy EFTA, or end up with the UK being evicted – if that’s even possible. So bye-bye the EFTA option.
OK, never mind, there’s the WTO option – the UK is already a member in its own right. Yes, as a member of the EU, all EU member states are members of WTO, but leave the EU and it’s WTO on a different basis. So you look at WTO and find that there are countries not iN WTO that aspire to belonging, and you realise that there are countries with unstable economies, currency, difficult working conditions, that joining WTO will be a big step forward – they can enjoy free trade, even if at terms of tariffs and paperwork. Yippee! But for the UK it’s a step backwards, and not even certain all WTO members would unanimously accept the UK, there could be problems. So, whoops, that’s not such a good thing after all.
Ah but, how about CETA? We, the UK, will do that. Oh wait, it took years for CETA and I don;t even think it’s ratified I got the impression it was on a trial basis. And looking into it, there’s dislike of it in the EU – and Canada. So cold the UK walk into a UKETA? And would it really want to?
So it becomes with the shambles that Westminster is, that far from having a sensible plan where the UK would stride boldly out intp a new world, it’s going to become a fourth world country in terms of trade with other countries. At that stage what we’re looking at is the rUK, with our relatives, friends, neighbours, people we do business with and blether on the phone about rugby (I’ve Welsh suppliers as well as English), these people are going to suffer, and suffer badly. Even if many of them don’t realise it.
And that’s where 1). we really need to do our best to stop this self-destruction of people we’re very close to – not their stupid government of course, or the stupid ain opposition party, but real normal people like us mostly except they voted the wrong way.
But also 2). if we’re starting Independence and our neighbour is in desperate straits it’s going to make our independent start harder.
So for me, we need to do our best to stop the UK exiting the EU, or at least give the people of the rUK another chance to see the best way forward for themselves. And even if we do manage this, with the total ignoring of Scotland (and Wales and Northern Ireland) by Westminster we can still go out for Independence, having helped to save our neighbour from themselves. Bravo!
But some see it differently 🙂
(good grief, to get to that punchline, yet another shaggy dog story!)
Alex Cole Hamilton takes to Twitter to support Kezia Dugdale in HER case *AGAINST* Wings over Scotland and gets his pal Big Sam from the Orange Ludge to support him
Anybody spot Alex Cole Hamiltons deliberate deception and typical Lib Dem twisting of words there
1st, Not Dugdales case….Stuart Campbells case
2nd Not against WOS……Stuart Campbell against Dugdale
Liberal Democrats don’t even bother to attempt to disguise their lies anymore as long as they get them out there
@Luigi says: 27 March, 2019 at 9:52 am:
” … O/T If Labour, as expected, vote against revoking Article 50, they will be completely and utterly finished in Scotland (and the rUK, for that matter).”
You are correct, Luigi, but where is this rUnited Kingdom you speak about?
When the United Kingdom disunites by The Kingdom of Scotland declaring the Union is over what happens is both partner kingdoms that make up The United Kingdom return to, “The Status Quo Ante”, a.k.a. The status that existed before the Union was agreed and the union began.
There are only two kingdoms signatures on the Treaty of Union and these are, (in the order they signed), The Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.
It was not, “The united Kingdom of England”, it was, “The Kingdom of England”, and that is what the Status Quo Ante will be. Not the r United Kingdom but, “The Kingdom of England”, which brought both Wales & Ireland into the United Kingdom as parts of the Kingdom of England and not as the United Kingdom of England.
This concept of an rUnited Kingdom is a false concept introduced by the Westminster Establishment in an effort to have this false rUnited Kingdom claim for itself the assets of the United Kingdom. Things like the Pound Sterling that belongs equally to both component kingdoms that united in as the United Kingdom. Ditto with the armed forces, and the United Kingdom Civil Service not to Mention the so called Bank of England that has never belonged to the Kingdom of England but was nationalised by the United Kingdom which is the two kingdom union.
Dr Jim @ 11.33 pm
I agree with you to a point. Where a different construction/interpretation can be put on something, whether an event/photo or whatever, then that alternative should be stated so that people can then decide.
Today the Herald has printed a letter signed by a number of individuals -Tariq Ali etc, on the subject of that photo. Not only that but they have highlighted it as a news item in its own right.
Any reasonable person would agree with your measured response at 11.33 am but it seems some have moved beyond reason in puruit of their own agenda.
I noticed on your Twitter that someone had described you as ‘sad, angry and bitter’. I do not see you like that at all. I am impressed how hopeful, cheerful and positive you manage to remain, given that your work involves monitoring the endless avalanches of negative and erroneous information circulates through the mainstream media. I also think that anger is an entirely appropriate response to a lot of what is happening in society at the moment.
I note the dangerous and hated Baby Box uptake is now 96%.
Nearly 89,000 delivered to stupid and reckless parents since the scheme started.
@Gullaneno4
Petrol, blow torch and fire extiguisher not included in the package?
I sincerely hope Mr Campbell wins his case then he can go for the Daily Record for printing it.
Does anyone believe for one minute that the Mundells did not take legal advice? What an opportunity to silence the main voice of indy.
No I think they probably did and we’re told to back off.
Kezia did what Kezia does, and that is why we are here.
@Legerwood 12:41pm
It’s the Herald, nothing reasonable and measured about them when it comes to a manufactured SNP must be horrible story
The same people don’t complain about Theresa May shaking hands and smiling for the cameras when she does arms deals with countries that are blowing seven colours of death out of the children in Yemen next door to them then sticks adverts on the TV fronted by British celebrities asking the British public to fork out cash to help save their lives
So we pay to blow them up and then we pay to help keep them alive so they can do it all over again and all the time the British exchequer and those who benefit from it gets richer
I ranted a bit there but I think you get my meaning of great British double standards when it suits them
As for the Herald and really most print media I am heartily ashamed and sorry that there are still people who trust these people as newscasters when all they do now is trawl the internet looking for gossip then report what suits them as news
It is now difficult to access Wings because of all the MSM nonsense.
Typical. Clogging up the access.
There is nothing better than free publicity. Worth it’s weigh in gold.
The liars might think twice before telling all the lies. Lie after lie. Killing and abusing millions of innocent vulnerable people. They have no care, empathy or sympathy. Most of them should be in jail. If there was any justice.
A total world laughing stock. These shameless Westminster unionists and their associates. Mucking up the world. What an absolute mess. Chaotic chaos. People are dying because of it.
Cubby says:
27 March, 2019 at 10:58 am
In response to TheItalianJob@9.29pm
I would add the result of the 2014 referendum to your list of referendum/GE results that make clear the wishes of the people of Scotland to stay in the EU. The SG in its current actions is acting in accordance with the wishes of the people of Scotland.
In 2014 the NO voters were voting to remain in a UK that was in Europe. Moreover they were told repeatedly that voting NO ensured their continued presence in Europe.
That was important factor in many people’s final decision was evidenced by the size of the Remain vote in Scotland. A lot of these people who voted Remain would have been no voters in 2014 just as a lot of Remainers would have been Yes voters.
Therefore the SG is correct in its current actions not just for the reasons here but for other reasons too all of which contribute to the case for independence
What John McLeod say at 12.44 is spot on.
I read Stu’s Twitter account but I am not on twitter. If I was I would be joining the many people tweeting how valuable he is. So I am saying it here – Wings is brilliant. He is very sweary but that sits comfortably with me. It’s the meaning of what he says that is important to me,not his choice of words. No doubt there are people who don’t like his use of expletives but c’est la vie.
Bob Mack @ 11.53am
Spot on Bob. She tried to make it political….i.e. SNPBAD.
Looking over Dugdale’s testimony and defence it is so obvious that she was out to make political capital. This was not about Gay Rights or discrimination.
At every juncture, she conflated Wings and the SNP, something some of us, including the Rev, have sought to make clear is not the same thing. By smearing Wings she sought to cast her net wide and catch the SNP, even involving the FM.
The political element has been glossed over in the minimal reporting so far. It will be interesting to see what is said when the result comes in, and how much political fallout results.
Maybe this is why Mhairi Hunter etc have sought to distance themselves recently.
Legerwood@1.11pm
I agree. The sovereign people of Scotland have spoken on the matter of staying in the EU over the last 5 years and it has always been to remain. It is up to the representatives of the people of Scotland to now ensure that is what happens. I include in that comment the Queen of Scots – I mean of course Elizabeth not Nicola. If Elizabeth or Nicola are posted missing then they both need to go. I have my own opinion on who will let us down out of the two and it ain’t Sturgeon.
What do we want? A new First Minister! When do we want it? Now!
Never heard that on any Independence march ever
Who are these people?
Im a bit worried by the prospect of no brexit on the independence movement and would be greatful for clarity and reasurance from the good people on this blog.
If article 50 is revoked, what impact on a future independence referendum. eg… if its a close vote, the unionists will frustrate the exit programme,. arguing that the people have a right to change their minds.
The EU dont want an independent Scotland anyway!! Remember the officials saying the didnt want states breaking up. Tusk talks supportively about UK remainers as European citizens in the hope of No brexit!. He forgets convieniently the way the EU turned a blind eye to the spanish state police smashing the heads of european citizens excercising their democratic right in catalonnia!
Then there is the frenzied UK/ EU media saying that leaving the EU is a really bad idea and that an independent Scotland would have to reapply, remember brexit and all that!.
Referendums are a bad idea as they cause divisioon and uncertainty they will say!! The people are sick of referendums and elections etc…
its a word of caution to be careful what we wish for!
The best scenario I feel would be for brexit to happen and the people would see what a mess it is and how our democratic voice was ignored!
Successfully revoke article 50 as the SNP hope and we could face years of staying in this horrible union as the mighty political and media machine would be ruthless in their attacks on independence.
Its Not the SNPs job to save the UK!!!!
By following this course of action , we just might!!
Thoughts??
BBC Scotland lunchtime TV news giving pride of place to misleading claims that service personnel in Scotland are more highly taxed than in RuK.
This of course doesn’t include lower council tax in Scotland plus all the other benefits including Baby Boxes. Highest council tax increase in UK this coming year is 9.5% rise by Tory run Conwy Council.
Who is going to compensate those lower ranks in England who are worse off than those who serve in Scotland?
Sheer hypocrisy from Tories and BBC for not providing the whole picture or balance in their reporting of this issue.
in case anyone thinks that it is distasteful, or damaging to the cause – this schadenfreude or vicious glee about dugdale, how can I put it
keza
dug-daled herself a hole with her own big gob, steaming into something she had no need to; she was then offered
a rope
a stepladder
a helicopter with a winch
– but, to murder the analogy further, she decides to opt for
a tunnel boring machine
– to be paid for, by someone else
some people think we should go easy on kezza as she is such a gormless, useless, clueless, bag of mince- but remember, this woman has done real damage in her time
– if I were a labour supporter I dont think I could forgive her for basically telling me to vote tory to keep the SNP out
there are a dangerous class of people who think
– if they “mean well”
– or “believe sincerely”
then it absolves them from all responsibility – never let these people near anything important or valuable
was in central reekie yesterday, right near the courts – could have stuck my head in for a look … seems slightly disappointing
– kez was trying the old “I have my own definitions for words” trick, which no one trained as a lawyer should try – its a bit like lying your arse off, then qualifying it with
“in my recollection”
“to my mind”
“in my opinion”
“it is my sincere belief”
another line of attack taken was that jokes about or involving homosexuals or their -ality, are by definition “homophobia” … yeah … except
– the butt (ooh-err missus) of a joke being homosexuality is a staple of comedy – from frankie howerd to scott cappurro
– carry on up the khyber indeed!
@Dr Jim says: 27 March, 2019 at 1:31 pm:
” … Who are these people?”
No idea, Dr Jim, but there’s a hell of a lot of them commenting on Wings.
Teachers accepted pay deal by 98%.
Despite totally misleading headlines, the pay increase this year is 3$ not 13%, and the Union had asked for 10%.
There’s another 7% next year (2019-20) which makes it 10% but a year late, and 3% the next year (2020-2021).
Now that’s the facts, NOT what the anti-teacher media want you to think about “greedy” teachers.
More importantly both EIS and the Scottish Government have become aware of the workload, stress and difficulty teachers face, teachers who have run up student debt over a 4 year degree period followed by a year masters, and the SG has promised support and a whole raft of other measures. About time too.
I wonder if Craig Murray managed to get a copy of The National today. There’s an article in it by Kevin McKenna all about Nicola Sturgeon and having selfies taken.
Most is just tongue in cheek but he finishes with what he really meant to say.
Kevin McKenna: Should the First Minister have more selfie control?
“It seems our First Minister just can’t win when she tries to extend her hand across the political divide in pursuit of a higher purpose. That picture last weekend of her with Alastair Campbell, who once advised the latest in a long line of UK Prime Ministers (backed by the odd SNP leader) who took our country into wars of debatable moral endeavour seems to have caused an outbreak of sanctimony in some nationalist circles.
They need to chill and perhaps embark on a short walk for a long drink.”
Maybe someone could post the complete article as it needs a premium membership and I read the article in the actual paper.
link to thenational.scot
TheItalianJob@11.51pm
” I wish it were as easy as the views you have posted”
There’s the nub. Too many people in Scotland are unaware of their basic rights. Who is to blame for this – Britnats and Westminster and their lies. Too many people in Scotland have been conditioned to feel inferior.
If our representatives accept us being taken out of the EU despite having voted on a number of occasions over the last 5 years to remain then Scotland is acting as a colony and will be treated as such by Westminster. Our representatives – Sturgeon and Elizabeth the Queen of Scots will have to go.
I will ask you the simple question are we Scots sovereign? If yes we need to act that way.
I have only one thing to say about the selfie. What a load of nonsense. In the middle of Brexit chaos this is what some in the stupid lying media focus on. Not worth any more words.
On Service personnel taxes in Scotland, when yoons and BBC harp on about it remind them of:
link to snp.org
and
link to theferret.scot
The Rev’s defense should read out some of the many lies that Dugdale has put forward only for the Rev to prove beyond doubt that she is both incompetent and and a pathological liar.
She tries to bad mouth him and have him ostracized as he continually holds up the mirror that makes her a complete fool.
The woman is clueless and expects all media just to accept the crap Labour put out as factual.
A couple of good examples would see her crawl under her seat.
Deserves everything that has sown for herself.
Just looking at this, from this in her article from Sim’s twitter:
“No elected member of any party should be endorsing someone who spouts hatred and homophobia towards others.”
That seems pretty cast-iron to me.
Thepnr
McKenna archived.
link to archive.is
Contains a great ‘if only’.
” Indeed, if I was one of her advisers I’d be trying to set up a picture opportunity of the First Minister handing over a special baby box to Ruth Davidson and her partner Jen Wilson and their lovely new baby boy, Finn. ”
Go on, NS!
Turn up on her doorstep!
Misreporting Scotland would implode!
@ Thepnr – The Kevin McKenna article archived:
link to archive.fo
Just caught up with Sim’s tweets.
Whichever way the ruling goes, I wouldn’t want to be the sheriff. He’s going be abused whatever he rules.
Personally I think it unwise to take a selfie whilst posing beside a statue of Eric Morecambe. It might invite people to wonder who was the bigger comedian.
It’s all a reflection of desperation when folk argue over what kind of Independence they want or which kind of politician they want to deliver it
There’s only one kind of Independence, the kind that gives you the ability to choose these things after you have the first bit
The people who engage in demands before the event do themselves and the rest of us no good, you can’t eat the chocolate until you buy it first and if you continue to argue over the flavour you demand it’ll be sold out and gone by the time you’ve made up your mind
How many times has our National football team been expected, nay demanded to succeed over teams they’re supposed to beat where endless discussions ensue over who we’ll meet in the final only to be gubbed by Jockstrap United from the Congo in the first game
Scotland must stick together like glue and brook none of this intentional division of the ranks, the Spartans didn’t hold back a million Persians by having a row before the fight started about which spears to use
My apologies if there is in fact a Jockstrap United football team from the Congo, no offence intended
So now they want to wear blueshirts to go with their blue passports.
link to archive.is
“All photos of Boris Johnson now look like they were snatched through the windows of a security van taking a high profile offender from court to begin his sentence. And all his newspaper columns read like the letters that offender might write from prison to one of the 15 fiancees that tend to be acquired in these situations. ”
@Gary says: 27 March, 2019 at 1:34 pm:
” … The EU dont want an independent Scotland anyway!!”
Oh! Aye! Where is your evidence of that claim, Gary?
” … Remember the officials saying the didnt want states breaking up.”
Of course they do not want states breaking up but that is nothing to do with how they react when they do.
” … Tusk talks supportively about UK remainers as European citizens in the hope of No brexit!.”
Oh! For heaven’s sake! Maybe that will be because they are EU citizens until the moment that Westminster drags them out of the EU against their wishes. They do after all want to remain.
” … He forgets convieniently the way the EU turned a blind eye to the spanish state police smashing the heads of european citizens excercising their democratic right in catalonnia!”
Absolute rubbish! Where is your evidence they turned a blind eye? In the first place the Spanish state is an EU Member State and the EU cannot easily oppose a member state. Foe example they do not openly act against the UK for the atrocities carried out by the Unionists against the Republicans in Northern Ireland and The Republic is an EU Member State while the UK is still officially an EU Member state. Diplomacy doesn’t act as you seem to imagine.
Yet those Catalonian Leaders who made it out of Spain and ended up in EU Countries were not returned to Spain under EU international arrest warrants but were set free by the EU Member state courts. Not only that but without any song and dance acts the Spanish Government had several changes to high ranking government people. That’s not turning a blind eye – that using diplomacy to resolve matters without too much fuss.
” … Then there is the frenzied UK/ EU media saying that leaving the EU is a really bad idea and that an independent Scotland would have to reapply,”
Absolute rubbish. The UK certainly told those lies, The EU did not. There were certain absolutely stupid claims made and splashed all over the UK media and believed by idiots. First up they claimed that Spain said they would veto a Scotland claim for EU membership but Spain said nothing of the sort.
The Spanish Prime Minister actually made a public announcement that Spain would not veto a Scottish request for EU membership and also stated that the Spain/Catalonia and the Scotland/England cases were very different matters as the UK was an International treaty between two kingdoms but Catalonia was an integral semi-autonomous region of Spain and Spain has a Written Constitution.
However the really funny thing was that the UK media were quoting as their authority – “José Manuel Durão Barroso”, who was born on March 13, 1956 in Lisbon, Portugal. and is a Portugal politician – not Spanish.
” … Referendums are a bad idea as they cause divisioon and uncertainty they will say!! The people are sick of referendums and elections etc…”
Oh! Aye! That’ll be except when they are advisory Westminster referendums about the UK exiting the EU that Westminster then treats as if it were a compulsory referendum that Westminster had to obey the will of the people. Yer talking bullshit, Gary.
” … The best scenario I feel would be for brexit to happen and the people would see what a mess it is and how our democratic voice was ignored!”.
Hilarious! The majority of the people already know what a mess it is and once we are out there will be no way back for the UK. Furthermore, Scotland isn’t out yet and may not ever be out. By the way – here is another fact. You know all those claims about an independent Scotland having to go to the back of a long queue behind even Eastern European countries? Well, Gary, there is no queue and there never has been one. What prevents applicants for membership is because they do not qualify by not meeting the EU standards.
Scotland has met all EU standards since ever there was an EU because Scotland, as one of the UK’s two kingdoms, has met all EU conditions by being in the EU since before it became the EU.
” … Successfully revoke article 50 as the SNP hope and we could face years of staying in this horrible union as the mighty political and media machine would be ruthless in their attacks on independence.”
Pish! The name of the current EU member State is, “The United Kingdom”. It was constituted by The Treaty of Union and the Treaty of Union has only two signatory kingdoms signatures on the Treaty Of Union. It is thus a two partner United Kingdom and when those two Kingdoms disunite the United Kingdom has ended.
What will remain is two independent Kingdoms and the laughable bit is that there hasn’t been a Kingdom of England Parliament since 30 April 1707. Westminster is the United Kingdom Parliament – not the Kingdom of England., but Scotland has a legally elected parliament. So just what legally elected government is going to legally run England?
You unionists come on here and blether the biggest load of pish imaginable and it is so easy to destroy your whole pack of bullshit.
Dr Jim
I’m sure Jockstrap United’s lawyers will be in touch soon!
link to twitter.com
Regarding the payments to soldiers serving in Scotland receiving payments from the UK government that in effect puts them on the same tax as the rest of the UK.
Had Scotland reduced income tax, by Westminster’s logic, they have to make the same payment to soldiers in the rest of the UK who were now paying too much tax.
I don’t what it is, the Scottish referendum and David Cameron’s announcement of English votes for English laws along with the implementation of the Scotland Act 2016 has definitely stuck a wedge through thr Treaty of Union.
They are really simply decrying those who want to have a selfie with Nicola.
If Nicola refused such requests then they would have a go at her for that but in that case with some justification.
In the European parliament Alyn Smith SNP MEP is roundly applauded every time he gets to his feet, and every time he talks of an Independent Scotland the applause gets louder
and the UKIP Tories on the other side jeer and mock but the rest of the 27 are completely and totally on Scotland’s side in this
But you’ll never see it on the BBC 6 oclock or any other news
Watch the EU parliament to see what the EU thinks of Scotland’s position in the world, they can’t wait because they actually like and respect us and our political leader Nicola Sturgeon who they think incredibly highly of
And in a few short weeks you’ll see the evidence of that post Brexit because they’ll be turning up in Edinburgh to say so, then there’ll be plenty of the other kind of pictures the opposition won’t like
@Mike Cassidy 2:58pm
Shoulda Googled first, who knew eh
@Yesindyref2 2:24pm
Trouble is if you do not personally, ethically or morally endorse a particular lifestyle you are accused of promoting hatred and anti-gay sentiment. A dangerous trajectory to totalitarian conformity and the principle of ‘thoughtcrime’, see Orwell’s 1984.
Capella, the comment was deleted by the Rev, RN, CamB and myself and all referred to the deleted comment after it was deleted late last evening/early hours of today.
The comment from Patrick you refer to at 6.29pm is not the comment that was deleted and is not the comment that CM is referring to when he commented upon the ‘now’ deleted comment:
‘Craig Murray says:
26 March, 2019 at 11:28 pm
Mr Roden,
I am very sorry, I have to ask you to withdraw your accusation that I am an anti-semite, or I will sue you.
I do indeed regard Israel as an apartheid state very akin to South Africa. That is a very common view in the SNP – of which I remain a member. I criticise a great many states all the time, most usually the UK and the USA.’
—————————
As I myself commented at the time, the comment was ‘explicit’ and ‘overt’, this is why the Rev has clearly deleted it.
I do not know why the FM chose to pose with Campbell but it was, for me, not a clever move.
Campbell was an apologist for the ‘illegal’ invasion of Iraq, a land once the ancestral homeland of part of my family, but no more.
If I take a dim view, to put it mildly, of her association with this man it is ‘viscerally’ for that reason.
He, Blair, Bush among many literally got away with the murder of a country and they lied to do it.
Nothing to smile about there.
Gary says:
27 March, 2019 at 1:34 pm
The EU dont want an independent Scotland anyway!! Remember the officials saying the didnt want states breaking up….
It’s true the EU has a general presumption against member states fragmenting and breaking up, and is broadly against seceding states enjoying automatic EU membership when perhaps leaving their Continuer State destabilised, but where Scotland is concerned, the prevailing attitudes in 2014 have been put through the looking glass by Brexit.
In circumstances where it is the UK is causing the fragmentation of the EU, Scotland exiting the UK to remain in the EU gives the EU due cause to support Scotland, and consider England as the disruptive “rogue” element contributing to EU instability and fragmentation. We Scots are the “good guys”.
As a quick aside, secession and Continuer status does not apply to the dissolution of the UK anyway, that’s another topic for different discussion.
The support for Scotland in 2019, and indeed the lukewarm support in 2014, are both misrepresentative however, because until we secure a degree of sovereign recognition, Scottish Independence will be considered a matter of internal domestic UK policy with which the EU will not and cannot interfere. That’s why Scotland could be excluded from Brexit Negotiations. The Westminster Government was the UK’s formal interlocutor and it simply wasn’t the EU’s prerogative to include Scotland.
All of that would change instantly however if Scotland secured Interntnal Personality and international interlocutor status, and the capacity to enter sovereign agreements. Scotland in my opinion would be the poster child for closer EU integration and common resolve, and I feel sure the EU would make absolutely certain that Scotland’s interests were looked after throughout any period of transition and disruption caused by dissolution of the UK.
I still think too, that an impudent request made to the ECJ to clarify whether Scotland could revoke Article 50 unilaterally, based upon our own sovereign prerogative, would have been an inspired piece of mischief making because I think the ECJ would have said yes. Then we’d really be enjoying the Westminster shenanigans from the comfort of our ejector seat and EU parachute.
Dr Jim
“What do we want? A new First Minister! When do we want it? Now!
Never heard that on any Independence march ever
Who are these people?”
_____
Mostly ordinary folk with human emotions and weaknesses, though I have my doubts about the honesty of some.
link to psychologytoday.com
Reason and emotion: A note on Plato, Darwin, and Damasio
If reason and emotion affect decision-making, which matters more?
link to psychologytoday.com
Mind Self and Society
Section 23 Social Attitudes and the Physical World
link to brocku.ca
Social Influence and the Collective Dynamics of Opinion Formation
link to journals.plos.org
Philip Sim
Finally, Mr Sandison seeking to knock down the veritas defence. After Mr Dunlop asked why Willie Rennie wasn’t mentioned in the George Michael tweet, Mr Sandison asks if this is more likely to be “because he’s inconsequential” than because he’s not gay
link to twitter.com
Well, whodathunk it? Willie Rennnie, “inconsequential”?
Dr Paul Monaghan
@_PaulMonaghan
Reuters are reporting that Theresa May is expected to announce the effective date of her resignation in Westminster at 18:00 CET this evening. Her resignation is apparently conditional on Conservative MPs supporting her catastrophic Withdrawal Agreement.
link to twitter.com
Fascinating look at how the Empire promoted ‘Britishness’
in the past.
A direct link to the page as it contains a link to the must-watch “Springtime In An English Village”.
The gammon brexiteers would simply explode coping with gentle wartime propaganda promoting racial harmony designed to encourage immigration.
Does not compute! Does not compute!
link to theconversation.com
A little background on the film here.
link to archive.is
I’m asking where are all the people who came up with this stupid referendum?
I have the impression that they are sitting somewhere in the corner and crying.
Lol Robert peffers…..lol Your not half getting an orgasm in your response to my opinion.
as for evidence of catalonia. ask the folk with broken fingers and head wounds if they think the EU were on their side!! Theres you evidence!! common fecking sense and observance.
away and get yourself a blow up doll to release that tension. or fix the one you had !
Thanks Breeks for the informed response. Gary
OFFs! Here we go again. Being gay is not a ‘lifestyle’. People do not chose their sexuality.
And how encouraging and enabling diversity (where everyone is allowed/encouraged to be different)leads to ‘totalitarian conformity’ (where everyone has to be as near identical as possible) is beyond me.
Oh….. and robert peffers!!!!
Just saw the last bit of pish you wrote, about me being a unionist?? Get your fuckin facts straight pal!!! iove been a member of the SNP for 35 years!! thats rifght 35 years dickheed!!!!!
open your head before you open your mouth or hit the keyboard you keyboard warrior
GARY
@Liam,
I’m sure your point is indeed valid, in that Mr Mundell did not choose his sexuality, but he did indeed choose a lifestyle that denied it for many years. His outer personna presented as something completely different. His choice regardless of circumstances.
As Wee Ginger Dug wrote, while he was out and getting all problems of being out, fighting for gay rights, Mundell was voting for Section 28 and keeping quiet about his sexuality.
On the popularity of various party leaders this recent poll:
Interesting poll, ratings by own voters, says a lot:
among their own voters
May +44%
Corbyn +38%
Cable +45%
Batten +35%
Sturgeon +80%
Dr Jim @ 14:53:
Well said.
Should be staringly obvious by now, but still we get the occasional “my way or no way” useful idiot straight from the BritNat playbook. Who can predictably be relied upon to add Catalonia outrage and whatever other distractions du jour to their thick soup.
re. “Springtime In An English Village”. Ah, the bucolic fantasy of God’s green and pleasant land. A myth of British multi-cuilturalism that has never really existed. Well, 82% of the UK’s black and Asian residents voted to remain in the EU, so it would appear than no-whites are still discriminated against more than Scotland. Still, makes you think. 😉
link to tandfonline.com
Towards a critical social science perspective on health promotion research
link to academic.oup.com
THE SOCIOLOGY OF EMPOWERMENT
link to su.diva-portal.org
Empowerment: What Is It?
link to joe.org
Liam
Claiming sex is something an individual can adopt at whim, is equivalent to insisting two and two equal five. It defies scientific rationality and so is illiberal. It’s as basic as that.
@Proud Cybernat
Yes I like that one about Rennie.
Well, that’s it for about 4 weeks.
Hope Ronnie and Liz g is it, take Rev for a good skinfull!
Is the North British Hotel still there?
I said ‘sexuality’ not ‘sex’. Different things.
@Bob Mack I agree. Gay people and straight people (and all the other colour stripes on the Pride flag) can adopt ‘lifestyles’ at odds with their true nature. Doesn’t necessarily make them hypocrites. But, I’d guess it’s fair to say, it’s more likely to make them unhappy.
Did I miss the Nicola Sturgeon and Patrick Harvie evidence at the Dugdale trial, as the defence has used them in his summing up I would presume they gave evidence. Or is hearsay allowed as evidence now?
Labour again adopting the Willie Bain principle of not voting for SNP amendments or motions in House of Commons.
No excuse at all for abstaining on Joanna Cherry’s motion to Revoke Article 50 which is in line with the majority view in every constituency in Scotland.
Liam
Sorry, my mistake, I haven’t quite caught up.
I agree with you completely re. sexuality. I might get in to the neuroscience of it, if folk are interested.
@Gary says: 27 March, 2019 at 4:00 pm:
” … Lol Robert peffers…..lol Your not half getting an orgasm in your response to my opinion.”
Well no, Gary, I’m just exposing your stupidity.
” … as for evidence of catalonia. ask the folk with broken fingers and head wounds if they think the EU were on their side!!”
Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. In the first place nowhere have I claimed that Spain were in the right., because they were not. However, the reason it has nothing to do with it is because that was not the point you were attempting to make.
I’m sure you will attempt to prove me wrong even when i’m right but what you were on about was that the EU had apparently done nothing about it and that was what I proved you were wrong about.
” … Theres you evidence!! common fecking sense and observance.”
Nope! Gary. The point you made was that the EU had done nothing about it. I didn’t dispute that the actions of the Spanish state were wrong because that was not the point you were making.
” … away and get yourself a blow up doll to release that tension. or fix the one you had !”
Bit of a grasshopper mind there Gary. What it has to do with anything is anyone’s guess. Big jump way of subject.
You just don’t have a clue how to argue your point. In fact you don’t even seem to know what your point was and are trying to argue something else.
Here it is again and you can scroll back to confirm it.
You said this:-
My point was that the EU doesn’t work like that but did take action against Spain. I pointed out that the Catalan politicians who got out of Catalonia and into other EU States were not handed over to the Spanish Government on EU arrest Warrants and that The Spanish Government leaders were soon changed. Their replacement were better but perhaps not a lot better.
I passed no comment as to whether the Spanish Government were right or wrong because that was not the point you were attempting to make.
So just what is your point about the broken fingers and so on? Thing is you still do not know my views on that because I have not expressed them. What is the point then of your daft reply?
So there you go – you haven’t a clue of what is going on or what I was saying and proving. For the record I have supported Catalonia from even before the thing got out of hand. Thing is, why did you think otherwise? I was arguing about the wrong things you were claiming about the EU & EC, By the Way you seem confused about the difference between the EU and the EC and what they each are.
—————————————————-
Gary says:
27 March, 2019 at 1:34 pm
Im a bit worried by the prospect of no brexit on the independence movement and would be greatful for clarity and reasurance from the good people on this blog.
If article 50 is revoked, what impact on a future independence referendum. eg… if its a close vote, the unionists will frustrate the exit programme,. arguing that the people have a right to change their minds.
The EU dont want an independent Scotland anyway!! Remember the officials saying the didnt want states breaking up. Tusk talks supportively about UK remainers as European citizens in the hope of No brexit!. He forgets convieniently the way the EU turned a blind eye to the spanish state police smashing the heads of european citizens excercising their democratic right in catalonnia!
Then there is the frenzied UK/ EU media saying that leaving the EU is a really bad idea and that an independent Scotland would have to reapply, remember brexit and all that!.
Referendums are a bad idea as they cause divisioon and uncertainty they will say!! The people are sick of referendums and elections etc…
its a word of caution to be careful what we wish for!
The best scenario I feel would be for brexit to happen and the people would see what a mess it is and how our democratic voice was ignored!
Successfully revoke article 50 as the SNP hope and we could face years of staying in this horrible union as the mighty political and media machine would be ruthless in their attacks on independence.
Its Not the SNPs job to save the UK!!!!
By following this course of action , we just might!!
Thoughts??
jfngw 4:53pm
Bit of a desperate stretch name dropping non participants in a summing up
Sounding like please give me a bit of sympathy with that one
I’m not entirely sure Mr Corbyn does self awareness.
link to archive.fo