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An offer refused

Posted on December 12, 2020 by

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    1. 12 12 20 07:56

      An offer refused | speymouth

    185 to “An offer refused”

    1. Davy says:

      Yep, Boris to the core.

    2. cynicalHighlander says:

      Chris “Would you be FM” At least we would have something to smile at.

    3. Robert Louis says:

      Sometime soon, I’d like to see Boris the clown Prime Minister, Dominic Rabb, Gove, Cummings and Patel, ALL put in jail, for orchestrating the deliberate destruction of the economy.

      It is truly criminal.

    4. Robert Louis says:

      .. oh and for goodness sake SNP/Scotgov, DO SOMETHING!

    5. Turnbulldrier says:

      That’s a cracking peice Chris..

      I’m off to stuff my face with chocolate, before it’s rationed.

    6. Morgatron says:

      Powdered egg and a quarter of spam will be our weekly shopping , whilst these criminal’s will spout jolly good riddance. Another two who need the jail is the head of the BBC allowing Farage such a platform to spout lies and not be held to account with seriousness. Not in Europe and not independent, we are truly up shit creek.

    7. Marie Clark says:

      That’s a belter Chris, nailed it in one. Well done.

    8. tom kane says:

      I am hoping that there is some cool curator out there keeping an eye on your work, Chris.

      If the BBC or STV won’t make a programme about what you are achieving, I hope some classy national gallery will do an exhibition of your work.

      Of all the nutty things that happened this week, this is definitely the worst. It’s a shame we couldn’t also leverage in the British gun boats patrolling Scottish waters to defend Boris’s British fish.

      It’s an absolute indictment of this Scottish Government that they have said and done nothing about it.

    9. Ian says:

      Scottish Parliament – Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee report 11 Dec 2020

      Conclusions –

      ‘The issues highlighted in this report of access to EU markets, the implementation of the Protocol on Ireland /
      Northern Ireland, the end of freedom of movement and access to EU programmes will have a profound impact on Scottish business in 2021 and beyond’.

      ‘The Committee concludes that there is little prospect of any positive outcomes for the Scottish economy from a no deal Brexit or a hard Brexit with a trade agreement
      albeit a no deal Brexit is the least desirable outcome. The Committee considers that for the outcome of the negotiations to remain unknown in December 2020 will result
      in serious disruption to the Scottish and UK economies in the new year’.

      End

      Profoundly insightful report and it only took 9 MSP’s to come to that conclusion.

    10. Willie says:

      Yup, no life jacket, no paddle, this sums up this Westminster Government precisely.

      All washed up and the Europeans know it.

    11. kapelmeister says:

      Ah Shit Creek. I believe sturgeon can be found there.

    12. Famous15 says:

      “ I know I have the body but of a weak and feeble woman; but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a king of England too”.

    13. cynicalHighlander says:

      Aye it’s where all slimy things linger.

    14. Bob Mack says:

      Inspiration from Papillon or The African Queen?

      We will all be trying to escape very soon.

    15. Contrary says:

      Oh this is a good one, what an excellent cartoon Chris. You have captured the childish petulance of Boris Johnston perfectly.

      The paddle being offered, well, it says it all.

    16. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      VERY GOOD, CHRIS!

    17. deerhill says:

      I think no deal from the get-go was the aim of the Tory faction now in control of Westminster.

      Then the common people will be so preocupied with keeping body and soul together that they will not notice all the tinkering with bills, and ministers bypassing parliament to get their right wing coup in place.

      By the time people realise whats happening it will have happened.

    18. Gregory Beekman says:

      LOL!!!

      That’s classic, best one yet!

    19. Breastplate says:

      I’m pretty sure we’re up Shit Creek without a paddle or a boat.
      If only there was some way we could remedy the situation?…hmmm.

    20. ronnie anderson says:

      Would U like to ride in my beautiful canoe naw Bojo’s its overloaded yer balloon rides over .

      great toon Chris .

    21. Robert Graham says:

      Aye well this is when yer Nuclear deterrent comes in handy eh if that dosent work send in our word beating Aircraft Carriers to support the 4 yep thats 4 gunboats
      Listen up Bawjaws this isn’t the 18th Century and Britannia doesn’t rule the waves so get real yah tosser

    22. Dan says:

      John Bull and The Last Crusade to Where The Wild Things Are.

      The UK, to all intents and purposes now an island run by a cabal of crooked cowboys for their own personal advancement, whilst cutting its people off from our European neighbours.
      With our means of escape reducing all the time.

      #BurntBridges #BlazingPaddles

    23. What’s everybody so concerned about? Nicola is “starting to worry” that Johnson is “almost planning for a no-deal Brexit”.

      She’s got her finger on the pulse and we won’t be dragged out the EU against our will.

    24. kapelmeister says:

      Cosyfeet tweets to note that GE19 was a year ago today. He says the result “restored our momentum”. So it did. Then Sk8er Sturgeon quickly threw it away Pete.

    25. There was an interesting letter in The National about hiring ferries to bring goods, medicine, etc. directly from the EU into Scotland.

      Looked a good idea on paper, but could you imagine the SG having the balls to do something like that? “We cannae… Westminster wilnae let us…”

    26. Willie says:

      Interesting how Westminster has readied four gun boats and helicopters to intercept, board and arrest French fishermen encroaching into so called British waters.

      A most interesting development because if I was the French, indeed the EU I would deploy EU military to seize British assets elsewhere. Oil rig supply boats, cargo boats, planes and other assets. Indeed, Europe is a continent whilst the Britain is an off shore island with mainland Europe on its eastern flank and Ireland on its western flank.

      All in all, rather foolish for Britain to play the military card. Other countries have military too. And no, I can’t imagine President Biden sending Liberty ships to keep Britain supplied in the event of a blockade.

      So your call Boris with one thing certain. The EU now knows beyond any doubt that it has a belligerent aggressive combatant on its doorstep and that appeasement does not work.

    27. Willie says:

      Yes and some thirty odd years ago when Britain sent a task force down to the Falkland Islands and when a nuclear armed submarine was despatched to waters off Argentina, maybe Boris thinks he can do the same again with Europe.

      But hang about BoJo, France has nuclear weapons too and between them and Germany they have a substantially greater military capacity.

      Yeh BoJo send your fucking gun boats. Because what you gonna do if the French sink them?

    28. Dunadd says:

      Gunboats?
      Is Boris going to revert to piracy again to build England’s new empire?
      Maybe not as easy this time round.

    29. Hatuey says:

      Willie, I’m guessing you’re some sort of military warfare strategy expert or something. Tell us straight, are we stumbling into a war here?

    30. Scozzie says:

      We may all harrumph and laugh at the clown man child but what has WM been doing all this time… well its been busy putting a stranglehold on Scotland- the new civil service hub in Edinburgh, internal market bill, negotiating away our fisheries, making us economically uncompetitive with the NI deal. And all the while this has been going on in plain sight (not even hushed up) and the SNP has sat on its collective fat arse and done hee-haw.
      If us plebs could see what’s going on they have bloody no excuse. Will they do a plebiscite election? He’ll no NS wants 5 more years of devolved power to maybe get around to thinking of independence inbetween her book tweets, signing pride flags, taking sqillions of selfies, doing ‘good morning COVID TV with Oor Nic as if she she’s Lorraine bloody Kelly’ fucking up women’s sex based rights and sending us all to jail for hate crimes.
      But she might get round to independence but only if she gets 5 more years to think about it.

    31. Frank Gillougley says:

      She ought to just cleave his skull in two. No words can adequately describe the utter failure of Scottish politicians in preventing us ending up here. Scotland a cadaver.

    32. Frank Gillougley says:

      I should add – Chris cairns – the best political cartoonist I’ve seen.

    33. Robert graham says:

      Everyone prepared for a veritable extravaganza of , Union Jacks , Dads Army, Vera Lynn , and to top it off THE BLACK KNIGHT from monty python
      A ”tis only a glancing blow , England will prevail Bawjaws will sort them pesky foreign up starts don’t they know we once ruled the world , the world used to be Pink just look at the 19th Century maps of the world
      Eh Bawjaws we ain’t in the 19th Century now and you are not Churchill now go and sit down before you cause real damage ,
      Total Delusion on steroids the entitlement seeping from every pore in their bodies , we really are blessed to have these psychopaths leading the country what could go wrong .

    34. Stuart MacKay says:

      Willie ,I thought you were joking but Boris really is going to play the Fortress Britain card standing up to the might of an authoritarian regime that’s taken over mainland Europe. https://archive.is/laklB

      Chris’ cartoon really sums it up – talk about being a spoiled, petulant, brat. Boris should declare himself woke. If this is the UK’s playbook in trying to get a trade deal with the EU then the lunatics really have taken over the asylum. Everything is imagery and posturing. I’ll bet there’s plans to issue ration books – so the WWII fantasists and nostalgia freaks can relive Britain’s glory days.

    35. 100%Yes says:

      EU is moving on from little England and in years to come little England will be begging to return back in to the EU.

    36. kapelmeister says:

      WTO rules here we come. De facto London direct rule here we come.

      All because Sturgeon, instead of preventing the above with an indyref, devoted her time and energy to a criminal conspiracy to get Salmond and a GRA that few wanted. She is trash and so is her money grabbing spouse.

      Ten years ago she was a popular Deputy FM and cabinet secretary seemingly devoted to the indy cause. Ah weel, you think you know people.

    37. Alf Baird says:

      Scottish sovereignty is in the canoe folks, under Johnson’s boot.

    38. stonefree says:

      @ Willie at 10:36 am

      Was it not a French made missle that cause a lot of destruction when used by the Argentians ?
      What is Johnson’s plan when the French and Germans seriously turn on him? (not in a military sense)
      He has little idea just how much the English are disliked or even hated in the rest of the world including the US of A
      And Trump is now of his way out(if he does go),
      Where will be his Good Friends and Partners ?

      Robert Louis makes a valid point of the criminality of Johnson and Company. Indeed it could be called treason
      William Joyce (Irish) born in America like Johnson was hanged for Treason
      Theodore Schurch followed the next day hanged for treachery
      I admit being anti-death penalty but can make an exception, Either charge and result ,works for me

    39. Effijy says:

      On a positive note, Boris has given £10 Billion
      to Michelle Moan and Tory friends to fit a world
      Leading Hand-Brake to his canoe!

      The Daily Hail has a special about the £Billions
      Handed out to Tories who then make a call to China
      and order PPE that costs less than half of what they get
      Paid.

      They in turn can make donations to the Tory Party via
      DUP Dark money and so the whole corrupt circle get stronger
      and richer every day.

      Scotland, you have got to get out of this English Mafia Cartel or die.

    40. kapelmeister says:

      He’s going to turn back time and turn back the tide of history. He’s King Canoe-te.

    41. Beaker says:

      @Dave Beveridge says:
      12 December, 2020 at 10:20 am
      “There was an interesting letter in The National about hiring ferries to bring goods, medicine, etc. directly from the EU into Scotland.
      Looked a good idea on paper, but could you imagine the SG having the balls to do something like that?”

      Scottish Government and ferries? Oh dear…

    42. Hatuey says:

      “She is trash and so is her money grabbing spouse.”

      All we really have to look forward to in politics is their demise.

      That’s it.

    43. Bob Mack says:

      Nobody oanic. Nicola has a plan apparently. Any day now.

      Rumour has it Boris is going upstream to find her. She got there before him.

    44. Beaker says:

      I think the “gun boats” story is being overhyped to be honest. The RN has always had 4 fishery protection vessels. The MoD has probably been directed to make the announcement in order to bolster Boris.

      As expected, it’s backfired spectacularly, especially on Twitter. Best comment so far is “it’s about pointless threatening ‘willy waving’ during a period of sensitive negotiations.”

      Oh, great cartoon Chris.

    45. Daisy Walker says:

      Brilliant cartoon again.

      The French fisheries will not need to move into our waters initially.

      The British Navy will not be able to keep their 4 fleet boats in our waters for any length of time. 4 boats, and its a very large area.

      If the Scot Gov has made contingency plans to ship in food and medicine, sadly, the UK/English will commandeer it on arrival in port.

      I wonder if any moves have been made with out West Coast Fisherfolk to try and buy some of their catch to boost our local food supply. It won’t compensate for 20% of the EU fish market, but it might tide them over. Sadly I don’t think that is what the game plan is, the game plan is to destroy they for a quick buck.

      Once the Spanish get a hold of our fishing waters the will fish it out within 10 years.

    46. Republicofscotland says:

      Spot on Chris.

      When I hear a British nationalist on tv talk, whether its a minister or some so called expert talking about Britain taking its sovereignty back. I have a wee laugh to myself, as I substitute the the word British sovereignty for Scottish sovereignty every time they mention it, and they mention it quite a lot.

      However it never seems to dawn on them that what they’re doing, is what we’ll be doing, taking back control from them, soon I hope.

    47. Johnny Martin says:

      Strikes me that, if the early days of the apparently impending no deal
      Brexit are as bad as some fear, the pro-Indy list parties are going to have a strong argument if they point at the SNP and say “they didn’t exactly do their best to stop this”.

      That might be fair and might not but angry voters don’t care what’s “fair”.

    48. Republicofscotland says:

      Former first sea lord, Lord West, we’ll board EU vessels if we have to, and cut their fishing tackle.

      https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/brexit-prepare-for-punch-up-in-channel-over-fishing-rights-former-chief-of-naval-staff-warns/ar-BB1bRzff?ocid=msedgntp

    49. Luigi says:

      Up Shit Creek indeed.

      RE; the coming Battle of La Manche (English Channel). Royal posturing IMO.

      If Lazy Boris tries any Royal Navy “rule the waves” nonsense with the French fishermen, the first thing Macron will do is close the ports supplying the UK. An effective blockage. We are royally shafted.

      If only Lazy Boris had spent some time actually trying to negotiate instead of all this silly sabre rattling.

    50. Luigi says:

      Blockade not blockage (toilet humour)? 🙂

    51. CameronB Brodie says:

      Contemporary English/British nationalism is predicated on supporting xenophobia, and requires the death of Scottish sovereignty in order to survive. If the SNP were actually a democratic party that was capable of supporting the rule-of-law, Westminster would not have been successful is re-casting Scots as slave of England.

      #ragging.

    52. Dan says:

      Ahh, now that the UK is at the annoying the French stage…
      Is this what a prescient Alyn Smith meant when he said “leave a light on for us”.

      Scroll to right to see all Euro interconnect gauges.

      http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

      Regularly over 10% of GB Grid power comes from mainland Europe. Anybody any idea how that will play out with no deal?

    53. Davie Oga says:

      Of the two main issues blocking a deal, fisheries is symbolic but a distraction. A deal could possibly be made.

      “Level playing field” for access to the single market would require The EU to accept British delusions of grandeur and inability to play by the same rules as everyone else.

      The EU will protect the single market. This ends one of two ways. No deal, or Suez +. Humiliation or decimation.

      For a people that are unable to feed themselves (half of all food is imported, the overwhelming majority from the EU), to even consider what is being proposed is criminally negligent governance on a collosal scale.

      To allow Scotland to go along with this shit show is complete failure by Scotgov to do what they were elected to do.

      “Stronger for Scotland”. “Will not be dragged out against our will”

      Empty, meaningless, rhetoric, designed to con the Scottish people out of their vote, so the current leadership can enforce their lunatic agenda on the people.

    54. Ellie says:

      @kapelmeister
      “Ten years ago she was a popular Deputy FM and cabinet secretary seemingly devoted to the indy cause. Ah weel, you think you know people.”
      Its much easier playing second fiddle than being 1st violin. She had us all fooled.

    55. Ottomanboi says:

      Heil Johnson!! the Brits are coming with a gunboat to save ‘our’ fisherfolk.
      At the moment Scotland has the appearance of an old cod waiting to be gutted…assuming that is there are guts to be found.
      As Irish nationalists used to say « Nuair a bhíonn deacracht ag Sasana, bíonn deis ag Éirinn »
      How many more difficulties does England have to be in before Scot nats finally seize the opportunity?

    56. Dan says:

      Aye, Davie Oga, you’re right on that score.
      Getting to the point I think we need to find a bit of that Icelandic spirit that flowed across their society, and how they dealt with the corrupt charlatans.

    57. Davie Oga says:

      Hatuey says:
      12 December, 2020 at 11:35 am
      ““She is trash and so is her money grabbing spouse.”

      All we really have to look forward to in politics is their demise.

      That’s it.”

      My bin has never hired somebody to go into my daughter’s school to affirm that they may have been born in the wrong body.

      My bin has never tried to put anyone in prison on made up charges.

      My bin has done as much to deliver independence as Sturgeon’s SNP.

      My bin isn’t a compulsive, narcissistic liar.

      In the interest of civilised debate, I would ask people to refrain from these uncalled for, personal attacks on trash.

    58. Bob Mack says:

      @David Oga,

      Rubbish!!!

    59. A Person says:

      If the French were to give Johnson a taste of his own medicine, English voters would just lap up the rhetoric, blame the French and blither on about “running away in 1940”, as though they personally had defended Paris, even as their power cut out, their supermarket shelves sat empty and they sat in agony because they had no medicine. It would never be the British government’s fault.

      England is a great country and when you go (I have done regularly my whole life, for work and holidays) most people are very friendly and kind. But when it comes to politics they are on another planet, it’s very strange.

      That’s the fundamental reason we need away from the UK, so we can have “normal” politics, devoid of chest-beating, jingoistic delusion.

    60. A Person says:

      -Davie Oga-

      If it’s one of those bins that you can open the lid just by touching, I’ll vote for it at this point.

    61. Dunadd says:

      As I recall NS had to be persuaded into taking on the role by AS.
      AS must have thought NS was able for it.
      However it is an AS type we need now.

    62. Robert graham says:

      Oh fk don’t mention the war for Christ’s sake they will be at it all day

      1966 anyone

      There will be blue birds over
      aw naw Gonnae no dae that , just Gonnae

    63. Bob Mack says:

      UK at war with France ? I’d lay in a supply of baguettes and vin ordinaire as a welcome. !

    64. kapelmeister says:

      Davie Oga

      She’s the trash, not the bin. Although she’ll soon be a has bin.

    65. kapelmeister says:

      England being bellicose towards France?

      Trois cheers for the auld alliance!

    66. James Che. says:

      Your all same, the kettle calling the pot black, Nicola sturgeon should have done this, she should have done that, you wait for referendums, you wait for hearings, you wait for court cases, you have all waited for Brexit, you have this reason to wait and see and that reason to wait and see, you sit on your hands, you wait to see what someone else will do to help you, you moan from in front of screens like angry people, all the while excusing yourselfs for behaving in exactly the same manner as NS, the computer screen warriors who get nothing done except a good days complaining and a little gossip of how the world is against you,
      Did your mammies nae teach you, if you want to eat a piece of cake, get up of your fat erses and go get it.
      And yet here you are, doing what kept you occupied years ago.moaning and gripen from yer seat,
      Shame on you, that your bravery only stretches as far as someone else to blame, and someone else stopped you becoming independent.

    67. kapelmeister says:

      James Che

      You have a point certainly James. But if you’re chastising others for being keyboard warriors it might be better not to do it with a 300 word comment.

    68. Bob Mack says:

      @James Che,

      Your well named hero. i suplose you view yourself as a guerilla in waiting.

      Have you yourself done anything this morning apart from gripe at us ? Blown up a bridge? Stood outside Bute House typing this? Probably not.

    69. Dan says:

      Sorry James Che, I usually like what you write but think that last post is off the money.
      Some of us have been working oor fuckin’ arses off campaigning in the real world at considerable personal cost in both time and money, so I have no issue with expressing my thoughts online too.
      All those mandates didn’t grow themselves you know… 😉

    70. Bob Mack says:

      Can I just warn everybody at this stage that this site will undoubtedly be monitored and your personal details already logged by security services.

      This is not a joke.We dont know how this will all pan out zs yet so ____ be careful whzt you say or suggest. It could be taken the wrong way .

    71. Doug says:

      Liar Johnson’s emasculated gunboat.

      England’s gunboats shall fight them on the puddles, they shall fight them without any paddles…

      Vive la France! Vive l’Ecosse libre!

    72. James Che. says:

      You don’t scare me one bit you keyboard worriers, yes this morning , as every other day, I spend looking for the back door out of serfdom, and we have it, but you don’t want to hear it, because that would thwart you present comfortable positions.
      The old adage of defence is the the best line of attack comes to mind,
      Sit there trying to defend yourselfs and then attack someone for your blindness.
      Rabbie Burns says it well, in the poem.
      “TO A LOUISE”
      O wad some Power the giftie gie us
      To see oursels as ithers see us
      It wad frae mony a blunder free us
      An evn devotion.

    73. Effijy says:

      I believe Ursula Von Der Leyen is a fully qualified
      Gynaecologist so she will know all about Boris
      and how he functions.

    74. Bob Mack says:

      @James Che,

      Didn’t know Rabbie knew a Louise!!

    75. Effijy says:

      If it’s war with the French against the English
      Can we ask the Foreign Legion to send their
      recruitment forms out now before England’s
      Tories put our postage rates up again.

      I agree with the comment that England’s 77th
      will be monitoring our posts and know who we are.
      Good!

      I’m here to stand up for and defend Scotland against any and all enemies.

    76. robertknight says:

      What use four English navy tubs against the entire French fishing fleet blockading Channel ports on the French side?

      You’ll hear Boris’ pips squeaking pretty damned quick once the lorries are parked up on the M25 and the supermarket shelves start to empty…

      “B’B’B’Bwitten will pwothper wiff Bwexit”

      What an utter d1ck!

    77. Ronald Fraser says:

      The stupid racist fickle English actually think that UK territorial Waters extend between the south coast of Engerland and France.

      And that their English Navy patrol boats are gonna whip those johnny furriners.

      The english have four patrol boats to protect the whole of the UK waters.

      So if the four of them are busy fighting the French, then who is going to protect the rest of the waters.

      That would let the evil Ruskies sneak into northern Scotland.

      And these four mighty patrol boats are Armed with a single 3cm gun.

      The Europeans are shakin In their Boots.

      Why has it taken over 300 years for us to start the process of dumping these crazy english bastards???

      And if the French are looking for new recruits to fight the crazy englanders, then I’ll be first to sign up.

      Viv la la France, as they say in Govan.

    78. Bob Mack says:

      @Effigy,

      Im more concerned about this site being seen to host certain “ideas” . I wouldnt want to lose Wings at this point.

    79. Davie Oga says:

      A Person says:
      12 December, 2020 at 12:38 pm
      -Davie Oga-

      If it’s one of those bins that you can open the lid just by touching, I’ll vote for it at this point

      Hmmm. You got me thinking there.
      My bin is non binary and has no opinion of its own. If it joins the party now, as long as Sturgeon remains leader, by 2026 it could get shortlisted for a seat, and a fast track, 95k a year ministerial position or possibly chair of a women only quango or ngo.

    80. CameronB Brodie says:

      “The old adage of defence is the the best line of attack comes to mind”

      Is that not “attack” is the best form of defense? Are we being intentionally gas-lit?

    81. Willie says:

      Boris Johnson can huff and puff all he wants but he ain’t going anywhere.

      He threatened to put a border across Ireland, rip up the Good Friday Agreement and plunge NI into chaos. In fact his military were making plans for this. But no, a combination of the EU and the President elect Joe Biden put them right on that . And with NI now remaining in both the Custom Union and the Single Market a United Ireland beckons, as a powerless Great Britain concedes one of its last colonies.

      And now they threaten the French fishermen. Well it might play to the rabid foreigner hating English Nationalists but it is the hot air of a busted flush past its sell by date. Britain is outflanked on every front – mainland Europe on the east, Ireland on the West, President Biden and the USA across the pond, they are, to put it mildly, fucked. Fucked militarily because there is no way they would dare use gunboats against a European nation like France.

      And fucked too because they will not win an economic, social or cultural war with Europe. Britain is the offshore island, mainland Europe is not, and the EU is hugely more powerful. Moreover President Biden is pro Europe and pro Ireland.

      Where of course this leaves Scotland is of huge concern. Out of Europe and with proposals to usurp the Scottish Parliament and impose direct rule, British troops on the streets could be a reality. As we know the English hate the Scots and their parliament as much as they hate Johnny Foreigner and the EU.

      So challenging times ahead for us Scots. The onslaught is about to begin in earnest and we must mobilise as one against it.

      As for starting a shooting war with France, they wouldn’t dare. But they would with us.

    82. Ronald Fraser says:

      And who is going to protect our hundreds of Oil and Gas rigs sitting off the coast of Scotland???

      Not a single Navy ship protects these highly explosive assets.

    83. Bob Mack says:

      @David Oga,

      Would it vote for Independence or toe the party whip ?

      Might be handy for most recent SNP legislation.

    84. Saffron Robe says:

      I think there are clear parallels between the UK in current times and Germany in the 1930s. It is worth remembering that the basis for all right-wing ideology is superiority. For the SNP to have allowed matters to come this far, which could well lead to our decimation as a people, means they have shot themselves, and Scotland, in the foot. In fact it is much more serious than that, they have shot us in the head.

      Perhaps the French will indeed come to our rescue, just as they always used to. They certainly know only too well England’s perfidy.

    85. Meg merrilees says:

      Was listening to early radio programme this morning and they were talking about West Coast seafood harvest – seems that the price of Langoustines has dropped by £2,000 per tonne because of the uncertainty to supplies caused by Brexit.

      Also, the Norwegians are getting fed up because there is a three way discussion about access and quotas between the EU/UK and Norway. Norway has said that it will close its waters to all EU AND UK boats from Jan 1st.

      Boris Johnson and his proud English Nationalist government should hang their heads in shame at the disruption their petty-minded arrogance is causing to SO many people whose livelihoods depend on fishing, yet a business which is such a small part of our economy.

      Welsh shepherds and Scottish seed potato growers will be unable to sell their flocks and crops and the UK gov thinks they can just change business and farm other products.

      Stupid, stupid, stupid Tories and even more stupid Brexiteers. We need to get the lifeboats launched asap….

      Meanwhile, anyone know what is happening about Gibraltar? and another thing, when will (T)Ruthless Davidson resign – as she said she would if Boris creates a border in the Irish Sea?

    86. robertknight says:

      Meg @ 2:14

      “Boris Johnson and his proud English Nationalist government should hang their heads in shame at the disruption their petty-minded arrogance is causing to SO many people whose livelihoods depend on fishing”

      Limited sympathy I’m afraid. Anecdotal evidence from Remain campaigners at the time suggested a sizable chunk of the Leave vote in Scotland was down to…

      Farming communities
      Fishing communities
      Tory pensioners
      Non-Scots (Esp. MoD personnel)

      Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you the 38%.

      Is that the sound of chickens coming home to roost?

    87. Bob Mack says:

      Fish prices in your local chippy will fall like a stone. You’ll be able to get a whale supper for £3.

      Suppose thats a plus.

    88. Daisy Walker says:

      Tactically – at least in the short to mid term, the Britnats will not mind losing NI.

      It is expensive from a security perspective, and it has No Oil or Gas. And remember, it was when Oil and Gas were found in the North Sea, that the Brit Nats suddenly became so concerned about Catholic residents human rights in NI and sent in the army – ‘officially’ to keep the peace. Prior to that they didn’t care at all.

      Of course they will have to sweeten the pill for Arlene, and co, to ensure they lead the sell out (from the No surrender point of view) and keep the peace, at least for the first 5 years, by which time, events, jobs, businesses will have moved on.

      Brexit shit or no deal is suddenly very real to our no voters. My mechanic has had to apply for an import licence – free at this time, but unlikely to always be so, and very time consuming and inconvenient.

      And I was doing the Christmas shopping, when Govt advice came over the radio advising businesses about applying for same.

      What is it about current SNP Official Policy – i.e. complete acceptance of Brexit – that is going to make our former No voters and Brexit Remainers – vote for SNP, if all they are offering as a ‘lifeboat’ re Brexit and WM insanity, is more of the same, but with a sad face, and some meaningless whining.

      And how am I, a Yesser, how am I supposed to recommend the SNP to them – its not like its going to save their business, not with their current policy anyway.

      New Labour all over again.

    89. Dan says:

      That’ll be chlorinated chickens robertknight.

      I understand chickens need to be kept undercover from 14th Dec. due to bird flu, and recall many turkeys are being culled already because of that outbreak, so they won’t even make it to their final holiday destination with the nice warm climate (aka the oven) on crimbo day.
      Thought I was going to have to go for a tin of Spam for the meal on the 25th Dec, but we are in Scotland, so could maybe get away with clubbing a seal and say it Self ID’d as a pollock…

    90. Bob Mack says:

      A momentous two or three months lie ahead of us. We are most likely be taken out of Europe against our will, when we were promised we wouldnt be. Now Nicola if that happens, has tk come up with the goods.

      All those desperately hoping and believjng in her as the saviour of Scotland will be proven correct or crushed by dissappointment. If they are crushed we must welcome them back in any event. If I am wrong I will ask their tolerance
      of my impatience.

      Just for the record my heart hopes I am wrong, but my brain does not allow that consideration.

      I will stand up for Scotland regardless. Without doubt my faith in politicians will be gone probably never to return should we be defeated in this strugble without even a fight.

    91. kapelmeister says:

      Bob Mack

      “You’ll be able to get a whale supper for £3.”

      Good news for John Prescott.

    92. Dan says:

      That’ll be those chlorinated chickens robertknight.

      I understand chickens need to be kept undercover from 14th Dec. due to bird flu, and recall many turkeys are being culled already because of that outbreak, so they won’t even make it to their final holiday destination with the nice warm climate (aka the oven) on crimbo day.
      Thought I was going to have to go for a tin of Spam for the meal on the 25th Dec, but we are in Scotland, so could maybe get away with clubbing a seal and say it Self ID’d as a pollock…

    93. Albert Herring says:

      I wonder if Jean kens aboot Louise?

    94. robertknight says:

      Kapelmeister @ 2:59

      “Good news for John Prescott.”

      Some kind soul might throw in a free egg!

    95. Robert graham says:

      Che Wizz
      Away splash pish at yerself
      Who asked your opinion anyway go and play with yer Kenwood Mixer cos yer rumbled yah chancer

    96. Lenny Hartley says:

      Daisy Walker, do not underestimate the UK’s hunger for territory, so its not all about oil and gas. NI is in a strategic position they will not give up lightly.

    97. Daisy Walker says:

      We’ve got to have a mandate, said the SNP
      We gave them one, the game was on.

      One is not enough, it will never do,
      we gave them mandate number 2

      Cause we’re the SNP
      We’re better Make it 3
      you’n’me, Scotland free

      We’re up against the Britnats, we could do with more
      Mandates, we gave them number 4

      Keep the dream alive, go on lets
      make it 5
      Five alive, five alive

      Boris and the covid they would make you sick
      lets make it six, make it six

      There’s a Brexit cliff edge, take you straight to heaven
      Vote SNP, make mandate 7

      And the good news is, they will not ask for 8
      With Holyrood closed – far too bloody late.

      And the EU looks on, we are already missed
      So long Brits, thanks for all the fish.

      But we’ll all be cheery when we see the polls,
      they’re awfy high, awfy high

      A mandate, a mandate, for the SNP
      the SNP, they’re just like me, just like me,
      a mandate, a mandate, a mandate more, just one more, just one more.

    98. Davie Oga says:

      Bob

      For ?95000 a year it will do as its told

    99. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Lenny Hartley, re Britnat desire for territory.

      That used to be their position certainly. With the current bunch of greedy chancers, I think they are as ignorant about the power structures of the UK as they are about everything else.

      Though I agree with you that there are powers behind them who have that strategic savvy.

      The extreme cost of Brexit changes all that, and so do 2 things that are different from the 1970’s – the size of the British army, and camera phones/internet. The days when the only video footage getting broadcast was bottlenecked by BBC and ITV are gone now.

      Brexit will devastate the British economy, including some very wealthy tories. But it will save the tax havens. They cannot afford to lose Scotland however, because it is the cash cow now, and in the future. NI cannot say the same, and if troubles were to start up again, particularly on mainland England – politically – and financially – the pressure would be on them to cut losses and run.

      I’m sure they are weighing up those options.

    100. John H. says:

      Bob Mack says: 2:58pm

      I too sincerely hope that NS comes across with the goods, but I really don’t see it. I would be delighted to be proved wrong. The people across at WGD seem to be increasingly nervous and bitter, and no wonder. It’s almost crunch time, and we will soon find out who is right about her.

      They are good people over there, and only want the best for their country as we do, but their attacks on this site and it’s owner have become quite shocking. They just don’t want to hear any criticism of Nicola, and have put all their hopes in her for an independent Scotland, as most of us once did.

      I fear they are in for a terrible disappointment.

    101. Dan says:

      Daisy, I think you’ve just highlighted the issue. There’s just too much accrued misogyny in all those mandates we’ve delivered.
      We’re gonna have to start collecting womandates till we have equality before our current government administration will be able to act.

    102. TJenny says:

      Dan – 🙂

    103. Bob Mack says:

      @Daisy Walker,

      In the spirit of Xmas could we not do the

      On the first day of Christmas
      Nicola gave to me
      A European guarantee.

      On the second day of Christmas
      Nicola gave to me
      two covid broadcasts
      and a European guarantee.

      On the third day of Christmas
      Nicola gave to me
      Three legal advices
      Two covid broadcasts
      and a European guarantee.

      etc etc etc.

    104. Breeks says:

      Bob Mack says:
      12 December, 2020 at 2:42 pm
      Fish prices in your local chippy will fall like a stone. You’ll be able to get a whale supper for £3.

      Suppose thats a plus.

      Bet it isn’t.

      Little old Mallaig has a railway line, but it wasn’t built for taking fish to Edinburgh or Glasgow.

      If it’s anything good, it won’t be on Scotland’s menu, it’ll be packed off “darn sarf init”.

      Scotland will have to make do turning offal into delicacy.

    105. Mist001 says:

      There was a large protest today outside Bute House. Campaigners were protesting against the lockdown regime. Apparently, there was a heavy police presence but the protestors managed to carry out their protest without any problems.

      So, my question is:

      If THEY can do this, then why the fuck can’t AUOB do this with their 80,000/100,000 supporters??

      If they’re so fucking great, WHY can’t they do the same as anti-lockdown protestors, who seem to have got organised and managed it quite easily?

      It’s because AUOB and their followers are arseholes, that’s why. They couldn’t run a fucking bath let alone anything to the benefit of an independent Scotland.

      https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-anti-lockdown-protestors-gather-19447745

    106. Bob Mack says:

      @Breeks,

      i guess us poor soles will just have to get our skates on and stop molly_ cod ling the English sharks.

    107. Bob Mack says:

      @Mist001,

      Give Manny Singh time to changevout of his striped pyjamas.

    108. Confused says:

      Psychopaths, a trait – to accuse others falsely, of things they are themselves guilty of. You see it so often in public life it hardly registers. One of my pet peeves is hysterical little englanders banging on about the EU, using false arguments about it (not that I am a great fan of it), which echo – factual realities about Scotland in the UK; it might be a good indyposterboy project to do a “if the EU treated England, the way the UK treats Scotland”.

      – so, had the unfortunate experience of seeing a few minutes of question time the other night; Julie Hartley Brewer – she huffed and she hissed, full of moral outrage about what the evil europeans had done to “this country” (England, and not all of England, just certain parts of it, like where I live; the thatcherite ravaging of the north was of no consequence BTW and a good thing anyway) and how

      WE NEED TO TAKE BACK OUR SOVEREIGNTY

      – so we can be “free” once again. Given you import 40% of your food, how free can you ever be? And “your” economy consists of oil at the bottom (ours), with a money laundry at the top, with next to fuckall in-between. Does she think the “free market” will bring back manufacturing and all the good jobs? Having a tough time negotiating with the limp wrists of the EU? – let’s see how you get on with the Americans or the Chinese.

      This woman is supposed to be a – journalist? – and been educated somewhere decent, but her grasp of history seems to be straight out of a daily mail screamer.

      Personally she flashed in her eyes and almost spat – as if a german had r4ped her on a pinball machine, while a frenchman pleasured himself and a belgian played the joker … then had a tranny examine her afterwards, forensically; the tranny being a spaniard, or an eyetie, without even wearing a glove.

      Stupid b1tches like this are writing cheques they cannot afford but The Bank of the Scottish People is expected to cash; ALL YOUR RESOURCES BELONG TO US. The scary thing is – her views seem entirely typical of middle england. JHB and many others like her, operate with a highly selective moral myopia, allied with a reality distortion field, for her the EU represents a grave threat and drain on the UK, treating us with “disrespect”, while – Scotland is an intrinsic part of the UK and has benefitted massively from it … we also love our “jocks”, like pets, except when they misbehave (1745, 1820, 1919, ?2021)

      – you cannot argue with people like that, i.e. most of England, including “the english left” (FUCK THE ENGLISH LEFT!) so you need to leave, get out now. Scottish leaders worthy of the title would realise the desperate nature of this and would be doing anything and everything to save us; it is that simple – I mean, London and the South East will be protected at all costs, and if necessary, “the extremities will be sacrificed”. That’s us – for the slow of thinking.

      The cartoon is good, but needs a Hamish in it – wearing a life-jacket, which Boris is trying to steal.

    109. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mist001

      A couple of hundred (if that?) anti-vaxxers and 5G conspiracy theorists, leavened with Weatherspoons regulars?

      Hardly “la Diada” is it?

      If some act of God like a wall falling on them all as the passed had taken them all out, the average IQ of Scotland would have increased and most of the Scottish conspiracy blogs and nutter collectives online would have disappeared. 🙂

    110. Bob Mack says:

      England wants to return to an age of hay wains and Turner landscapes. They live in memories because they hate their status in the present

    111. Kenny says:

      Today is 12 December. On this day in 1991, the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR repealed the Treaty on the Creation of the USSR of 1922.

      No problems over the international community either, ok-ed with George Bush.

      If you want a parallel, it would be the Scottish parliament repealing the Treaty of Union of 1707.

      Just saying…

    112. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Dan – Mandates/Womandates. Well spotted, can’t believe I never saw it before now.

      @ Bob Mack

      On the first day of Christmas
      St Nicla asked of me
      A Mandate for the SNP

      On the Second Day of Christmas
      St Nicla gave to me
      ‘Stronger for Scotland’
      With a Mandate for the SNP

      On the 3rd Day of Christmas
      St Nicla Gave To me
      EU membership Guaranteed
      Stronger for Scotland
      With a Mandate for the SNP

      On the 4th Day of Christmas
      St Nicla gave to me
      Alex Salmond Fit Up
      EU Membership Guaranteed
      Stronger For Scotland
      With a Mandate for the SNP

      On the 5th Day of Christmas
      St Nicla took from me RING FENCED INDY FUNDS

      Alex Salmond Fit Up
      EU Membership Guaranteed
      Stronger For Scotland
      With a Mandate for the SNP

      On the 6th Day of Christmas
      St Nicla Gave to …..
      cocks in a frockie
      Alyn Smith in a frothie
      Covid lectures awfie
      a spineless Brexit possie

      With a Mandate for the SNP.

      Something like that you mean;)

    113. CameronB Brodie says:

      If only we could self-ID as sovereign legal persons, then we wouldn’t be faced with the prospect of having to make do turning offal into delicacy. More of us might actually be prepared to stand up on our hind-legs and say enough is enough to Westminster, Scots will no longer be denied access to their inalienable human rights.

      So here’s a look at “Proportionality in Constitutional and Human Rights Interpretation”, which is a legal perspective that would at least be helpful in realising our Economic, Social, and Cultural rights, IMHO.

      http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2007-43872013000100005

    114. Daisy Walker says:

      Speculation – in order to keep St Nicla in power until at least end of February (thus preventing a coup with enough campaign time for Holyrood May elections) I had suggested that while there would continue to be POLLS – support for Indy would drop to between 50 – 55%. Probably dropping with some bad publicity for Nicla.

      However, with Brexshit back in full view, and no way to get it off screen at the moment. I am revising that guess.

      No Poll results for the foreseeable with regards Indy opinions.

      St Nicla is going to be looking to see how she can keep being useful to the BritNats in order to keep receiving full protection.

    115. Bob Mack says:

      @Daisy Walker,

      my go.

      12 Salmond charges

      11 Committee changes

      10 Avoided marches

      9 Months of Covid

      8 Indy mandates

      7 Years of waiting

      6 Trans fanatics

      5 Christmas Days

      4 Proposed Draft Bills

      3 Murrell Statements

      2 SNP chiefs

      and two covid vaccines for free.

    116. Mist001 says:

      @ Andy Ellis

      Couple of hundred more than AUOB can manage AND proving it can be done.

      AUOB are a social organisation, NOT political and that’s why you haven’t heard a fucking peep out of them.

      They’re as much of a bunch of charlatans as the SNP are. All fucking mouth until it’s time to step up to the plate.

    117. Beaker says:

      @Bob Mack
      @Daisy Walker

      How about this…

      There were 10 green fuckwits on the NEC,
      There were 10 green fuckwits on the NEC,
      And if one green fuckwit, should accidently be voted off,
      There will only be 9 green fuckwits on the NEC…

      I think rest is obvious.

      I’ll get me coat…

    118. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mist001

      Unreasoned nonsense. I’ve no axe to grind for AUOB; well meaning enough but led by donkeys, and under the illusion that the Scots will suddenly turn into Catalans and deliver our own “la Diada”, which they patently won’t.

      The zoomers out demonstrating today are no more representative that a LoL out banging their lambeg drum assuring us Nicola is the anti-christ.

      Of course it’s hardly surprising someone like you would be on hand to snipe against AUOB rom the sidelines, nor indeed that you’d be cheering this basket of deplorables on.

    119. Bob Mack says:

      @Mist oo1,

      Mannys plate was in a kitchen in Barlinnie for the cause. You done that?

    120. James Che. says:

      Dan, your are quite right, that should not be taken from you. I also have worked my …socks off,
      Bob Mack, Louise, rabbie burns, Wikipedia. I have never been a snp member, I don’t have heroes We are the dormant hero’s.
      Cameron Brodie, good your paying attention to words,
      Kepalmeister, I may be chastising others, but the point needed making regardless the amount of words used.
      A good kick up the erse is needed sometimes, as my granny used to say,
      The right to self determination is well recorded and documented, within the EU, the UN, and human rights,
      Scotland’s People’s claim of right is also well recorded historically and documented in the UK, starting in 1320, again in 1689, again in 1989,
      Westminster has never contested this claim of right legally for a very good reason, the reason being that Scotland agreed that England could choose the king or queen, or sovereignty crown in the British Parliament, after much debate when agreeing on the treaty of the union, if England did not recognise the claim of right by Scotland’s people to be above all others, above being governed by king or the parliament, it literally makes null and void their right to have chosen the king and queen, for the new British Parliament or to make that choice, over their parliamentary sovereignty,
      The sovereignty of the Scottish people came first and foremost, before king James. And was a bargaining chip and by so doing, into the articles of the treaty of the union, in other words they agreed that sovereignty lay with the Scottish people that they could renounce king James, it was the only way England could gain control over king queen, crown or sovereignty and religion in the new parliament at that time,
      However this sovereignty of the Scottish people over crown, king, queen or choice of governance still stands to this day with no amendments, in the uk legislation, perhaps because it might break the treaty of the union.
      The claim of right for the Scottish people was reiterated in 1989, and again in 2018,
      In the smith commission, paragraph 18, of chapter 2, It states, It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland chose it,
      And that is the crux of this commentary.
      It is not the SNP,
      Not the Scottish government,
      Not Westminster’s government,
      But the Scottish people that have the sovereignty to choose whom governs us,
      And it does not say anywhere in the claim of right that it has to be a referendum with given permission from Westminster or the Scottish government,
      It does not say when the people , where the people or how the sovereign people of Scotland should do it,
      Englands Westminster only has sovereignty over the devolved Scottish government, not over the Scottish people.
      I have been saying this for sometime now, and no one here seems to realise that it is YOU the sovereign people of Scotland that has the choice to make your country independent. Not anyone else,
      For those who did not want to hear, see , or talk about this, or acknowledge the facts of this information, you can take your fingers out your ears, hands of your eyes and go about the business you have been doing for the years past and forget that your sovereignty could have bought independence to your country and countrymen,
      It’s your sovereignty, it’s up to you if you want to disown it.

    121. Contrary says:

      Haha, the 12 days (to Brexit??) suggested song lines are brilliant Daisy and Bob Mack! Thanks for that.

      I’ve been focusing on economical things today, so have nothing interesting to say, but Richard Murphy has produced this immense thread on how money is created – it really is so well written, and worth a read, if you haven’t seen the Twitter thread (Colin Dunn retweeted), here it is posted as a blog article:

      https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2020/12/12/macroeconomics-money-and-post-brexit-recovery-all-in-one-twitter-thread/

    122. robertknight says:

      Boris just solved the problem of cross-channel trade with his talk of Royal Navy gunboat diplomacy.

      How many consumers in the EU will be picking items off the supermarket shelves which sport a Union Flag on the packaging?

      UK producers intending to export to the EU needn’t worry about all the extra paperwork and tariffs and transport issues – nobody over there will be buying anything made here.

      Talk about shooting yourself in both feet!!!

    123. Effijy says:

      This Coventry MP is afraid to call Blatant Tory Government
      Corruption, Corruption but just proved it beyond any shadow
      Of doubt and England is a blackout of corrupt shadows across
      it length and breadth.

      https://m.facebook.com/ZarahSultanaMP/videos/

    124. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @James Che (6.19) –

      Are you advocating armed struggle then?

      If so, please just state as much.

      We’re all exhausted, having scrupulously adhered to the ‘democratic’ process – only problem was, the folk we were nominating, campaigning for and keeping in post time and again were themselves being misled by a leadership which has no intention of doing what we believed we’d elected them for.

      We should be able to sue the SNP for fraud, flogging something ‘under false pretences’ etc but that surely would’ve been raised before now if it was a realistic possibility.

      There has never been anything like a proto-SRA since the Tartan Army back in the 70’s. If there was, we would’ve become aware of it. This movement is small because our country is relatively small. It’s easy to forget that. There is no nascent paramilitary or guerrilla force in Scotland – none supporting indy at any rate.

      But if you want to take your chances, as a potential hero, and issue a call to arms, fire away – I’d put a tenner on it being days rather than weeks before you and your friends get a knock at the door and find yourself facing some very serious questioning from Scotland’s finest.

    125. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Mist001

      Piss aff ya Yoon twat.
      There wasn’t even a hunner o them.

      Mare folk at footie matches the day.Players,staff trainers etc and security is around 100.

    126. Mist001 says:

      @ AYRSHIRE ROB

      STILL more action than AUOB can muster when they’re fucking needed.

      And yet complete fuckwits like you defend them??

      YOU don’t deserve independence you hopeless fucking twat.

      Get your priorities right instead of defending the indefensible.

      Whare are AUOB in Scotlands hour of need?

      Nowhere to be fucking seen, not a single fucking peep and yet a handful of anti-lockdown protesters who can’t have been going for much longer than three months have organised and actually marched upon Bute House.

      You really are a fuckwit.

    127. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      As I said ,look like a Yoon,think like a Yoon,write like a Yoon. You were outed years ago ya clown.Stay in France a don’t come back.

    128. bipod says:

      Scotlands daily lockdown statistics. 1064 new cases reported today, pretty much exactly where it was when the lockdown started. I thought lockdown was meant to crush the curve and suppress the virus?

      Lockdown again fails to achieve what was advertised, nicola pretends like it has been a great success and the lockdown fanatics still believe that it is the only solution.

    129. Beaker says:

      On lockdown protests, it is being reported that one of the leaders of Germany’s protests has contracted COVID and is now on a ventilator.

      Perhaps now some people will pay attention.

    130. Hatuey says:

      Bipod: “I thought lockdown was meant to crush the curve and suppress the virus?”

      Yes. It sounds like a great idea. Maybe we should try it.

    131. Andy Ellis says:

      @Beaker 8.04pm

      Not a chance. The basket of deplorables in this country supporting this stuff are an inchoate assemblage of unthinking alt-right cultists, conspiracy theorists, brexiteers, swampy style eco warriors, folk who vandalise 5G masts, and folk annoyed they can’t drink all day and a few “concerned business owners” who probably had most of their staff on zero hour contracts.

      That kind of roaster doesn’t actually care if more people die: it’s a price worth paying so they can see their mates and family more and get back to the old days. They’ve actually bought the “we have to save the economy and scrap lockdown” narrative hook, line and sinker – though few if any have any real insight or knowledge, just a truthy feeling they are right.

      In that respect they are like those who just believed we’d be better off outside the EU, but inside the UK. The combination of absolute certainty and total factual error is deadly (see also: TRA extremists in the SNP).

    132. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Aye aye bipod.Wondered when you turn up wae the usual pish.

      If you really think that letting the virus runs wild ,infecting,hospitalising and killing people is the route any country follows then you haven’t been paying attention.

      Stay in,wear a mask when your oot and keep your distance.Quite simple rules.

      If folk had done it right from beginning we might be like NZ or AUS now. Naw we get fuds like you and others think yir big and brave and you can beat a hidden virus.

      Go talk to the doctors and nurses ya roaster.

    133. Hatuey says:

      Bob Mack: “12 Salmond charges”

      I thought there were 13.

      Sorry if that ruins the song.

    134. bipod says:

      That must be it we just aren’t doing it right, looks like those nations in europe which have had even tougher restirctions like France and Spain aren’t doing it right either. How many more lockdowns do we need before people accept they aren’t what they are cracked up to be.

    135. Bob Mack says:

      @Hatuey,

      One not proven ratherthan not guilty. Anyway,poetic licence is allowed.

    136. bipod says:

      Are you still buying that is the next spanish flu pish AYRSHIRE ROB? I want to know if you have ever left your house in the past 9 months.

      As for letting the virus “run wild” there is still no evidence at all that lockdowns actually stop the virus, the past 3 months of intermittent UK lockdowns has shown as much. You must be one of those people without any real insight or knowledge that Andy was talking about.

    137. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Hows Sweden doing this weather bipod?

      That guy they followed,did he resign yet,giving people false hope? Only because Swedish people are nice folk they thought as a collective and believed him.Only saved them for a short while until the virus got a grip.Those poor people were used by a fruitcake of a man

      Seem to recall you said while back too,they’ll be no 2nd wave.Some are on their third wave now.

      Which one are you at in your parallel universe?

    138. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,

      If he’s recommending an armed struggle with “Louise” I suggest some Prioderm in his armoury for later. LOL.

    139. Hatuey says:

      It’s funny the difference a couple of weeks makes with reporting on the virus.

      Not so long ago the nay sayers were using Germany as an example in arguing that covid-19 had somehow become less potent and less of a threat – “look at the relatively small number of deaths in Germany, despite the high number of cases”, they said…

      Yesterday Germany recorded the most covid-19 deaths in one day since the pandemic started. In other words, the most covid deaths ever.

      Just last week on this website people were agreeing with the crank Yeadon who was saying much the same thing. Yeadon argued that there was no second wave and that the UK had effectively developed herd immunity…

      This week it became clear that cases of infection in London were basically out of control. In scientific terms, the virus is spreading like fuck there.

      I’d feel pretty stupid if I was on a certain side of this “debate” right now.

    140. Iain More says:

      Beaker says:
      12 December, 2020 at 8:04 pm

      “On lockdown protests, it is being reported that one of the leaders of Germany’s protests has contracted COVID and is now on a ventilator.

      Perhaps now some people will pay attention.”

      Maybe they should switch the life support off.

      ————————————————-

      Oh and we haven’t had a proper lockdown here in Scotland yet. Not like NZ where only 25 folk have died from Covid 19. English fuckin Tories could travel where the fuck they wanted in the UK like the fuckin English Royals with their plague carrying circuses to set a good example to us peasants.

    141. Hatuey says:

      Bob Mack, maybe you could change the words of the song and satisfy everyone, even drips like myself, by calling it a baker’s dozen…

    142. Bob Mack says:

      @Hatuey,

      My devotees are funny about that sort of thing. lol

    143. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Another thing.We apparently near had it cracked in July.Cases were low,hospital and Icu admissions were real low then we pended up flew here there and everywhere again and brought back a different strain of the virus to Scotland.What happens Aug Sept Oct cases increase, hospital admissions rise and few weeks later deaths.No we’re back to square one dealing with a new strain and still people don’t get it.

      Fucking amazes me.

    144. bipod says:

      Thats a good question.

      The answer is they are still doing better than Scotland and this is with no lockdown. I remember back in april when it was predicted that 85,000 people would die in sweden in a few months if they didn’t introduce measures similiar to the UK, nothing of the sort happened but we still have hysterical, propagandised people here who believe that millions of people will die or the NHS will collapse if we end lockdown.

      In figures I believe Scotland has a deaths per million rate of about 900 (which puts Scotland near the top of the list of worst effected countries) while sweden is sitting at 715 deaths per million, and this is without the restrictions we have taken. What does that say about the efficacy of our restrictions.

    145. Hatuey says:

      Bipod, we aren’t in lockdown and haven’t been ever. In Wuhan when they went into lockdown people were basically forced to stay at home, with food delivered to them. That’s lockdown.

      What we are calling lockdown isn’t intended or expected to suppress the virus. It’s intended to control the flow of infections.

      We’ve basically ended up with the worst of both worlds: annoying restrictions on life that don’t suppress the virus, and a steady flow of death and misery alongside.

      It’s not a strategy I agree with so I feel no need to defend it. What I will defend is the fact that without restrictions the virus goes mental and lots of people die.

      Right now we are averaging between 30 and 50 deaths per day and have been for months. With a proper temporary lockdown and restrictions on people coming into the country, we could easily have no deaths per day. And after a few weeks, there’d be no need for any lockdown measures. We’d be free.

    146. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      See that other stupid comment you made Bipod about the Spanish Flu? It already passed that stage months ago.Its in more countries than that was.Its only that 100 years on we have more knowledge. We have better hospitals,icu,s therapies and infection control when people use it that we’ve kept deaths down relatively to back then.

      Basically if we didn’t we’d be well passed that by now.This thing is more deadly than SFlu. The scientists have already mentioned this theory about better medical knowledge than 100 years ago.

    147. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      752 per million is rate for Scotland. Not great, but if only people would not spread it eh?

    148. bipod says:

      They didn’t go that far in Wuhan, people could still go to the shops to buy food. But by this time the virus was present in all of china and they certainly did not have a lockdown as severe as the one you are proposing across their entire nation, but their results have been remarkably better than countries in the west that have imposed severe restrictions that have lasted much longer than just a few weeks.

      Other east asian countries have had this kind of experience. Japan hasn’t had a lockdown but the death rate there isn’t even comparable to the west, similiar story in vietnam. There is something going on there and it is nothing to do with lockdowns.

      I suppose this is my main point how do you even know that the lockdown is controlling the flow of infections and stopping it from going mental. I have pointed on here many times over the past 9 months that there is no correlation between lockdown stringency and mortality. If a proper lockdown would work as intuitively as you think then surely then just having more restrictions would mean less covid and thus less deaths but that isn’t the case. It looks like the virus is spreading widely regardless of what we do.

    149. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      More dross bipod. You can’t get into Vietnam and Thialand until recently. They have strict visa and quarantine measures in place. They follow rules vigorously. Keep trying

    150. Effijy says:

      Abject failure of Tory England’s track and trace that has cost £22 Billion so far!

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/11/uks-test-and-trace-repeatedly-failed-to-hit-goals-despite-22bn-cost

    151. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Japan are in third wave.They had more control in 1st and 2nd wave then travel and imports have led to 3rd wave.

      Your no 2nd and 3rd wave theories are mince and have more holes than a sieve

    152. Dan says:

      Archived link for the Guardian links.
      C’mon folks, it takes less than a minute to check if page is already archived and save it if it isn’t.
      No need to supply direct links that give unionist papers page hits and traffic.

      https://web.archive.org/web/20201212033228/https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/11/uks-test-and-trace-repeatedly-failed-to-hit-goals-despite-22bn-cost

    153. Hatuey says:

      Bipod: “ If a proper lockdown would work as intuitively as you think then surely then just having more restrictions would mean less covid and thus less deaths but that isn’t the case. ”

      Lockdown isn’t theoretical. Unless you’re about to expound a belief in supernatural forces, there is no known mechanism that would explain transmission between two adequately separate subjects.

      More restrictions would not necessarily result in less covid and less deaths. There’s more to it than that and you reveal your lack of understanding by saying this.

      We can say more restrictions will result in less infections than there would otherwise have been, in the absence of restrictions, but even at that it’s possible the rate of infection would continue to increase.

      The effectiveness of restrictions will always depend on wider factors, the number of carriers, the distribution, r number, the nature of the restrictions, living conditions, population density, weather, etc.

      The persistence of infections and hospitalisation isn’t proof that restrictions don’t work. It’s proof that the restrictions don’t go far enough.

    154. Fireproofjim says:

      The last couple of hours on Wings has been a repeat of pointless arguments about Covid. The thread started as an excellent cartoon about the idiocy of Brexit and followed with reasoned discussion on overcoming such idiocy in an independent Scotland.
      Let’s get back to that please. Unless off course you are a virologist with something new to say.

    155. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hatuey (10.47) –

      ‘The persistence of infections and hospitalisation isn’t proof that restrictions don’t work. It’s proof that the restrictions don’t go far enough.’

      Wow.

      I hope that comment will forever be associated with your name.

      Shame on you.

    156. James Horace says:

      There is an ongoing war, and there have been a few wee battles won recently – which is of course good to see.

      There appears to have been another wee win this evening too. Rhiannon Spear has potentially realised her game is up. She has deleted her Twitter account.

    157. bipod says:

      Sorry for taking over the thread with this conversation but I can’t help myself when posters unfairly disparage all people who are concerned with the never ending restrictions as anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists and minimise the damage being done to society as just not being able to get pissed, like this is just a minor inconvenience to people. Once the cuts to pensions and the public sector start coming in I am sure minds will start changing. I will make this my last post on this issue here.

      Anyway the lockdown definitely isn’t theoretical now, we have been trying it for a long time. Every single week nicola is changing or piling on new measures with very doubtful results.

      More restrictions would not necessarily result in less covid and less deaths. There’s more to it than that and you reveal your lack of understanding by saying this.

      I totally agree more restrictions doesn’t necessarily equal less covid and less deaths, that is what I am pointing out when I mention there is no correlation between the stringency of lockdowns and the deaths. So you can’t just say that the restrictions have resulted in less infections and deaths if they otherwise weren’t in place, there is no evidence for that and you don’t know that.

      Your idea that if we had a “proper” lockdown for a few weeks where I assume no one would be allowed to leave their house and the army or whoever would deliver rations every now and then isn’t just practically unworkable for a nation of 60 million people it isn’t also going to get rid of the virus. Those essential workers delivering food or doing whatever will inevitably spread it to different families. The most likely place you are to catch the virus in Scotland right now is in an NHS hospital and that is happening despite the very careful and strict measures to “control” the virus that are practiced by professionals in hospitals.

      But maybe all these restrictions do move the needle slightly but is that worth all of the costs.

    158. CameronB Brodie says:

      If you’re not going to be systematic in your approach to lock-down, and don’t do all to improve social health practice, the virus is going to continue as it has. So here’s a look at “The Principle of Proportionality: An Ethical Approach to Resource Allocation During the COVID-19 Pandemic”. Admittedly from April, but have we really moved on that much?

      http://www.bioethics.net/2020/04/the-principle-of-proportionality-an-ethical-approach-to-resource-allocation-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

      “Policy makers, hospitals, and health care professionals are facing, or are likely to face, excruciating ethical decisions about resource allocation and risk calculation due to the COVID-19 pandemic and medical supply shortages. Emphasizing the principle of proportionality in resource allocation can help to correct for the shortcomings and limits of the maximizing approach, which is the dominant approach being put forward….”

    159. Beaker says:

      I’ve been working from home since March, and will continue to do so at least until next summer. I haven’t been able to meet some close friends / family because they have health conditions. I am not going to take the risk of passing an infection on to them. And god help any protestor who tries to rip the mask off my face.

      Staying on topic, I’ve given up on Brexit. As others have already said, I cannot understand why the SNP were so desperate to help the delays. Had it gone through earlier, while we may not have had independence by now, but we certainly could have been in a different position, and the hits caused by an earlier Brexit may have recovered a bit. Now we have the double whammy of COVID and Brexit, plus an election next May that could go anywhere.

      Remember the hilarity about people buying Brexit survival packs? Might not be a bad idea. I’d start buying the tins and pasta now, because the prices are going to rocket in January, whether there are shortages or not.

    160. Lenny Hartley says:

      Bipod re vietnam and other Sout East Asian Countries
      Some researchers say, Japanese encephalitis (JE) vaccines may stimulate cross-immunity against SARS-Cov-2. This theory explains many facts very well. For example, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand have very few cases of Covid-19, and their people are JE vaccinated.

    161. Hatuey says:

      Cheers, Ian. Good standard of debate, as always.

      Bipod, there are degrees of lockdown, obviously, as you seem to acknowledge when you talk about locking people in their homes. Ours has been a light-touch lockdown.

      As long as things like schools, colleges, offices, factories, etc., are open, I would say you aren’t really in lockdown. Even on level 4, all of those things and more have been open in Scotland. And that’s why the virus isn’t going away.

      Arguing against what I’m saying is shooting the messenger. Fire away, though.

      The vaccine is coming and those who take it are going to be returning to normal pretty soon. Depending on the numbers, those who don’t accept the vaccine are going to need to continue to have restrictions imposed on them. That’s regrettable but we can’t force people to take a vaccine.

    162. Willie says:

      Reading the comments about restrictions being sufficient or insufficient to control COVID is a bit of a moot point when you consider the Clyde Naval Royal Submarine Base or Faslane as it is more commonly called.

      Seems that between 30 and 40 percent of the MoD police and Guard Service together with an entire submarine crews have been riddled with COVID. The close proximity of the submariners and the thousands of military support personnel, with many who go home on leave every weekend, is therefore suspected as the reason why the surrounding rural areas of North Helensburgh, Garelochead and the Coulport peninsula are absolute COVID hotspots.

      Attaching is a link to a local SNP asking question in committee of the MOD about COVID in the nuclear base – with the answer of they don’t know.

      Makes a total and utter mockery of the COVID restrictions when the military can spread this disease with the Ministry of Defence saying they don’t know.

      https://fb.watch/2imj_ck-AS/

    163. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ronald Fraser

      WRT to Canavan’s warning, he may be right that the party risks losing support if not substantive progress is made towards having an actual vote, but I’m intrigued how he (or anybody else) thinks a vote is going to happen in 2021 after the Holyrood elections?

      Anyone paying attention to what Stu and others have been saying for quite some time now needs to pose the following pretty basic question to those indulging in Wishartesque magical thinking that britnats will simply roll over:

      “If the SNP doesn’t make the May 2021 elections plebiscitary, what is Plan B which assures us of #indyref2, and what is your timescale?”

    164. McDuff says:

      James che
      Individuals are limited in what they can achieve that is why there are political parties. We vote for a party that represents our beliefs and desires, they have the money,expertise and infrastructure to make that happen.
      Having a go at posters for expressing their views is pathetic, but hey you tell us exactly what you have been doing over the past six years and what the outcome has been.

    165. Ottomanboi says:

      There is a psychological state termed ‘consensus trance’.
      https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Consensus_trance
      Psychologists observe this condition, akin to mass hypnosis, in times of ‘national emergency’ or when individuals cleave in desperation to an official narrative for fear of ‘something worse’. Totalitarian systems exhibit text book examples of the condition.
      The WHO’s pandemic has provided many examples in the so called democracies from politicians, media and algorithm touting ‘experts’ to the cowed, bowed, worn out look of people in the streets.
      The neo-fascistic globalist-capitalist-corporatist reset is dining well on this mindset as have political establishments worldwide. A new order is being set up. It will appeal to the heart not the head, to the emotive more than reason and offer protection and security within personal bubbles and discourage dangerous social interaction.
      The contemporary SNP, riddled with woke bleeding heart unreason re ‘social issues’ and much else besides, fits neatly into the new order paradigm. Its leadership is a model of the sentiment huckstering new type.
      A major psychological shift is needed in Scottish politics, whether the Scottish people will be willing or capable of making such a shift is an open question.
      Fear of the ‘unknown’ and consequently sticking with nurse has attractions for many, a ‘many’ whose mulishness does nothing to advance the cause of the Scottish people’s liberation.
      Who or what will break the spell of this enervating consensus trance?
      What is to be done?

    166. Dan says:

      @ Republicofscotland

      The interconnect from France was mentioned yesterday btl.
      Interesting that leccy power now becomes a lever in negotiations.
      Soz for repeating links again.
      France is currently supplying 2GW of power (around 6%) to GB Grid demand. Scroll to right for Euro connections. Belgium NEMO currently supplying 3% too. Not sure why but Dutch one hasn’t been supplying for a week or so when it usually supplies similar to Belgium. Possibly offline for maintenace or something.
      http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

      Scotland is currently exporting 2.5GW to England…
      https://extranet.nationalgrid.com/RealTime

      Makes one wonder what our oil, gas, and fresh water would be worth.

    167. Rikali says:

      Most countries that want independence from a controlling foreign power have liberation parties/group/movements.

      If the SNP is the Scottish “liberation” movement how come it’s so indolent, lazy and uninterested??

      It seems to have a leadership which is percularly very unenthusiastic about “liberation”.

      Just asking for myself. 🙂

    168. Republicofscotland says:

      Yes Dan interesting info there, meanwhile Tory David Duguid on Politics Scotland suggesting that a no deal Brexit won’t really disrupt Scotland’s economy, Duguid added that the UK government has plans in place to stop shortages.

      Mike Russell then destroyed Duguid’s points, Russell was very animated, and pointed out the reality of a no deal Brexit, it a disaster for Scotland.

      Earlier on Dominic Raab confirmed to Marr that gunboats will be used to deter EU fishermen from fishing in UK waters.

    169. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Am I alone in thinking the Tories are only cutlass-rattling about gunboat asction on fishing waters, because they know Iceland is in EFTA rather than the EU, so the Queen’s Navy will not have to take-on their gunboats again – and risk a second hiding.

    170. Brent crude price almost hit the important $50 barrier for the first time since March 2020, which was the pre-pandemic price level. At the weekly closing, Brent crude price rose to $49.97 per barrel.

    171. Grouse Beater says:

      Very nice, Chris. Another good ‘un.

      What a mess Scotland is in. We say that of England, that English brought it upon themselves, but who caused Scotland to get caught up in it like a turtle in a fishing net? Can’t wholly blame the English for that. We blundered straight into it.

      Your essential weekend reading is a reissue for the festive season:

      ‘English on English’: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-nSV

    172. Republicofscotland says:

      The vile unionist George Galloway, who advocates independence for all other(possible) countries in the world bar the country of his birth Scotland, is to stand in Margaret Ferriers constituency of Rutherglen and Hamilton West.

      Here’s hoping this Tory useful idiot is sent packing when the time comes.

    173. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Grouse Beater.

      Love your essay. Am not on Facebook so could not reply, but There is an almost wilful, prideful, lack of self awareness, with the English – on mass.
      I sung a song – Bombing is the London Way – which Munguin kindly showed on 11/11 this year. I sang it in a folk pub in Edinburgh and a 20 year old White, English lad was spitting feathers at me for it – said he found it racist. He was accompanied by an Asian/English gentleman – who was in tears, that the verses dealt with what was actually happening in the middle east, and holding those responsible to account.
      I’ve sung the song a few times at this pub, some of the local ‘English Uni types’ now get up and leave when it starts up (and no, that’s not a reflection on my singing skills). They really, really, don’t like having their countries behaviour held up in public.
      Noel Coward used to sing, ‘lets not be beastly about the Germans’ – perhaps time to revamp it to ‘the English’.

    174. kapelmeister says:

      The debacle of Sturgeon at least highlights the inferiority of the pure parliamentary route to independence. Even a political superstar like Salmond couldn’t quite achieve it in 2014. It has to be a route with the accent on the extra parliamentary. Salaried politicians rarely bring major radical change by themselves, however well intentioned some may be.

      Young Scots organising social movements – same as in other countries in recent times that have removed political overlordship – will be key. Augmented by the excellent AUOB. Once Scots desire change with a fervour, then Holyrood can play its role.

    175. Bob Mack says:

      @Grouse Beater,

      That was simply sublime.

    176. Beaker says:

      @Republicofscotland says:
      13 December, 2020 at 11:30 am
      “The vile unionist George Galloway, who advocates independence for all other(possible) countries in the world bar the country of his birth Scotland, is to stand in Margaret Ferriers constituency of Rutherglen and Hamilton West.

      Here’s hoping this Tory useful idiot is sent packing when the time comes.”

      I live there. He might fucking win. Ferrier is persona non grata in the town, and the SNP will take a hit because of her.

    177. Scozzie says:

      For those that argue that lockdowns don’t work and those that argue they do… just my perspective living in the Melbourne lockdown – greater Melbourne population 5 million, higher density per population than Scotland. We went into a hard lockdown for 4 months.

      Our case numbers topped out at the 750 mark per day but we went into lockdown earlier than the top out figure. I think lockdowns work when u go in early and go in hard. We went in hard pretty much complete shut down, and still it took all that time to get us to 0 cases. Tinkering round the edges of a lockdown will have little impact – I feel that’s what’s been happening in Scotland.

      Track and trace – we were really starting to struggle on our track and trace at the 750 cases mark and the chief health officer said that 1000 plus cases per day would be a ‘runaway effect’ I.e we would have lost control of the virus. We had over 2000 contact tracers working round the clock not sure how many there are in Scotland???

      I think Australia has done well as the borders were shut early even interstate borders. All returning Aussie’s go into hotel quarantine for 2 weeks no international travelers allowed to enter Oz. But that system can be porous – it was a failure in protocols in Melbourne’s hotel quarantine that led to our 2nd wave resulting in community transmission and the hard lockdown.

      So what I’m saying is lockdowns can work but timing and case numbers at the time of lockdown matter. Also having full control of the decision making matters ie closing borders etc.

    178. CameronB Brodie says:

      From a bio-ethics perspective, the protection of life should be the principle concern of law-makers. So here’s a look at “Developing Psychologically Compelling Understanding of the Involvement of Humans in Research”. As knowing a bit about human judgement is surely helpful towards improving human judgement?

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s42087-019-00066-w

      “Research conducted on humans has a long history of ethical protections, with the Nuremberg trials in 1945 and 1946 triggering stronger protection across most jurisdictions. While there have been many reorientations and corrections in the emphasis of codes protecting human research participants, all have implicitly assumed a conception of human decision-making and the person that are psychologically not feasible.

      In this paper, we examine two problematic assumptions dominant in many research ethics guidelines: (1) implicit reliance on a model of classical rationality in conceptualizing the process whereby individuals make a decision of whether to give consent to participate in a study and (2) the assumption of autonomous subjects in the bioethical principle of autonomy and in operationalizing informed consent processes.

      For both of these problems, we outline theoretical psychological work that provides more compelling accounts of (1) human decision-making and rationality as bounded and ecological and (2) of personhood and agency as relational and emergent. We conclude by considering approaches to bioethics that are compatible with such conceptions of personhood and therefore provide a more satisfactory framework for a relational ethics.”

    179. Republicofscotland says:

      Beaker.

      So Galloway might win not because he’s popular but because Ferrier is very unpopular, I wonder when the time comes if they’ll be any other indy minded candidates from indy minded parties available that you and others in the constituency could vote for.

      I’d really be hoping that Scotland is independent before the next round of Westminster MP elections.



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