A surprising claim
Posted on
March 18, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Nothing to do with Devo Nano, just something spotted by an alert reader that we don’t recall being picked up anywhere in the press. And it seems, you know, interesting.
Shouldn’t that really be “ear-catching”? But we can’t help wondering whether Mr Carmichael has explained this rather pertinent fact to his cabinet colleagues or not. With the EU elections coming up, it might be something they’d want to know.
The guy’s a bloody genius, beavering away for Yes behind the lines.
I would like to see a video of this meeting.
It sounds as though the No camp were pulled up about CAP payments and EU representation and were found lacking.
The EU package that Scotland currently has is indefensible.No credible person can claim that the UK Govt punched above it’s weight in securing a good deal for Scotland when you consider the damage to our fishing industry,the paltry sums our farmers receive in CAP payments and the negatively disproportionate allocation of MEP’s we have.
Perhaps he’s going for a “you can’t bind future parliaments” thing here.
That doesn’t explain why he thinks there’s no question of there being a referendum, mind you.
Carmichael’s a Tory and he’ll have had lots of Scottish farmers demanding to know what will happen to their CAP money. Which is why he’s told them to stop worrying and in public too, oops.
Yet another foot in the mouth moment from Scotland’s Secretary of State, he certainly has a forte for lying through his earse.
He’s a credit to his party.
I’m still trying to shut my bottom jaw.
He actually said that?
Nobody in the press reported it?
He is trying to calm voters who were worried about there being a possibility of being out of the EU, if England decides so.
Call me a Silly Billy but I am pretty damned sure that if Cameron wins in 2015 he can call whatever referendum he likes…unless Portsmouth’s PM is confirming the conspiracy theory line that there is no escape from the EU…which of course begs another question or two
I am sure his tory colleagues will love him saying that.
The current Prime Minister of the UK of GB and NI seems to have a different viewpoint to his cabinet colleague –
“The prime minister says he is committed to holding an in-out referendum in 2017 whether a bill is passed or not.
But he said he was prepared to use the Parliament Act – a little-used piece of legislation that asserts the primacy of the Commons – to force it on to the statute books.
Mr Cameron said the government would use every tactic possible to ensure the referendum and the next session of parliament would provide an opportunity for another private member’s bill which he would support.”
link to bbc.co.uk (I looked and can’t find the thing about embedding links, but I think this is ok, sorry if it’s not)
Why would he deliberately say a thing like that,doesn’t he know that his masters’ master has promised this unequivocally?
He said it at this meeting. (NNS source)
Monday’s debate at the Stirling Agricultural Centre, was organised by the National Farmers Union Scotland and watched by 450 people.
Speaking on behalf of the Yes Scotland campaign was Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, Scottish Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs Richard Lochhead and Perthshire farmer Jim Fairlie, a member of the Farming for Yes group.
Speaking on behalf of the Better Together was Scottish Secretary of State Alistair Carmichael, Scottish MEP and chairman of the Rural Better Together campaign George Lyon and Aberdeenshire farmer Peter Chapman, from the Rural Better Together group.
I expect Ms Sturgeon will have noted his remarks for later use.
O/T came home to the bitter thigither newspaper..dear oh dear..apart from the litany of lies there is a story about twins where one was born in Scotland and one in England and a cute wee picture of the babies in their jammies one with Saltire and one with St George cross.
The headline is Two Nations, One Family and it says Despite being born on opposite sides of the border they are settling in as one big happy family..
Been lookin for video evidence of the meeting, but can’t find any.
We won’t be seeing that fuckwit on TV for a while me thinks, on another note Irvine Welsh on ch4 news declares himself a yes and gives his strong opinion on why, your welcome Irvine
WOW Crompenstein, BT actually quoting a fact, bizarre.
link to scotster.com
Wonders never cease eh.
Someone with a telegraph and a daily mail login should go and post that statement on their sites, sit back and watch england and westminster go into overdrive.
Stu
Have you been spammed?
In your first line the word ‘reader’ has a link to ‘Mongenie’ and various comments have underlined words that link to advetising of something though not quite sure. Used to get that on the Scotsman – hated it!
You people keep asking about the farmers and their money, etc. Westminster obviously felt it better to dish out 30 million or so of the 236 million allotted to the Scottish farmers, and are keeping the rest safe and warm, as you are not programmed to make financial decisions either…:D
A man who clearly has very little interest in continuing in his job…
An unusually upbeat article from Sev Carrol in the Guardian. Is he coming round? link to theguardian.com
O/T
Mr Bateman has a spring in his step. Thinks for the first time that YES are winning! Latest post having a go at Murphy and Darlings performances this week.
The Kirkcaldy meeting will be coming out, expecting some feedback soon.
oops sorry ‘ was missing
Ha! Live plug for Wings on BBC debate – who’s the plant?!
Apologies if someone has beaten me to this Stu but congratulations may be in order here. I’ve just heard a woman mention Wings over Scotland being a very good website and impartial
during the part of the debate about the BBC bias. Needless to say Jackie Bailie thinks the BBC is impartial, now why am I not surprised at that one. :0
Juteman
That’s a genuinely good article as far as YES is concerned,thanks for posting it.
@juteman
Good find.
How did that get past the Guards at censor control?
@ Juteman
What’s going on it’s like an ‘Yes’ campaign rallying call.
Unbelievable turnaround by him. Invasion of the body snatchers?
No comments either.
The Scottish Parliament petition for a referendum on the status of Shetland etc. a week after the Scottish referendum is a game-changer north of the border. Here is Ben Riley-Smith’s piece in the Telegraph.
The online petition itself is at the Scottish Parliament’s website here.
The options in the Shetland, Orkney and Western Isles referenda would be:
1) do you wish your island group to become an independent country?
2) do you wish your island group to stay in Scotland?
If the Scotland result is “yes”, there will also be:
3) do you wish your island group to leave Scotland and stay in rUK?
This and the financial uncertainty are going to outweigh the Commonwealth Games in my opinion. Momentum-wise it could be all over before the Games start.
Scotswoman says:
Ha! Live plug for Wings
21:42: One audience member who argues Al Jazeera is more impartial than the BBC says Wings Over Scotland is a good example of an impartial blog.
link to bbc.co.uk
@Scottish_skier – i’mpartial to Wings….
Carmichael – Best deep cover YES plant ever.
nice lady giving wings a mention, felt good.
“Impartial” probably not the right word for Wings, but at least the Rev is open in his bias. More than the BBC, who would have a lot more integrity if they would openly admit their pro-UK bias rather than put on a veneer of impartiality.
o/T just watched BBC debate on independence – some very good questions from the audience, but some very poor answers from the panel.
Question on BBC bias was poorly handled by Swinney, who is not really good in this programmes as he neither nimble enough or eloquent enough to answer tricky questions. Stick to the numbers John and stay behind the scenes!
Bias was in evidence however as Jabba the Hut of LABOUR was given complete free rein while Swinney was constantly interrupted by the BBC chair
2/10 for that BBC debate. BBC and Labour have poisoned this whole referendum and all to protect their God given right to rule Scotland for ever and ever. YES voters in the audience were brilliant though and Baillie’s just one more reason why Labour are rapidly slipping into Scotland’s past.
Well thought that was a fairly good debate. John Swinney to me, seems to be really growing in confidence appearing before a public audience.
Surprised that a question on BBC bias was allowed and the women that asked it done very well in her summing up. I know what she meant when she said she was disappointed in John Swinneys answer, purely because he wouldn’t come out and say “Yes the BBC are bias”.
These things though are just political traps. tomorrows headlines “Swinney says BBC Bias In Independence Debate” ect. Feck um ignore it, don’t take the bait.
Same went for currency union. The longer the SG keep stum the more frustrated our opponents become. Feck em, keep stum until the time is right.
The no Labour audience dude attacked Scots oil but Scots oil is world wide monster industry with at least 50 years of reserves in our sea bed alone. BBC/Labour and co cant be allowed to frighten people with their Scot’s oil worthless, UKOK oil “jewel in the crown”
Locations for these monthly(?) debates seems contrived – after Kirkcaldy tonight we have Orkney, then Skye – not natural SNP territory I have to say – bias again?
@Achnababan
The bbc were desperate for John Swinney to say they were bias – note how many times the interviewer ket going on about it, he was desperate for him to say they were.
And what would the headlines be for the next 6 months – SNP say bbc bias towards Independence – this would open up the floodgates for every part of the MSM to state SNP say we’re all bias.
No win situation – he could have possibly have handled it better but at least didn’t give them any amnunition
Thpner
I agree that an honest answer to the BBC bias question had the potential to be a trap for Mr Swinney but surely he could have said something along the lines of:
‘I will leave it for others to judge, but we do know that reliable academic research carried out at a Scottish University detected a strong degree of bias against the YES side’
@Achnababan-
I see where your coming from just think that if he stated anything along the lines that they were it would be headlines for the next 6 months – just look how the interviewer was desperate to say one way or other – it was like a planted question – and thank feck he never got his answer
Alan Little on BBC news – a study in bias and piss poor reporting standards. I’m really starting to get a wee bit upset with this, and I used to be the first to jump to the defence of the BBC.
Unbelievable that this standard of reporting should be allowed. The whole report was pitched to suggest that even Yes supporters are undecided.
Time methinks to hang a very large banner off the ‘squinty bridge’. Something along the lines of ‘for the truth behind the news visit wingsoverscotland.com
@Achnababan
I see where you coming from and giving such an answer may well have satisfied the original questioner. I also agree with Twenty14 however in that you can’t be sure how far the print media and broadcast media would be able to spin this as somehow negative.
Now, in saying all that I also believe that anyone appearing on national TV in a “live” broadcast has to have prepared answers for this. So as they are all singing from the same hymn sheet as it were and won’t be caught in a trap.
Lessons for all pro-indy supporters in Holyrood from next week
Watching Scotland Tonight and have ignored what Johan lamont is saying but just viewed her hands – absolutely all over the place.
There must be some psychiatrist out there, who upon analysis, will come to the conclusion – she’s talking utter pish
Re. Mr. Carrol coming around.
I think the byline tells us he is still batting for Britain.
“Nationalists say Labour supporters, young people and middle-class women are flocking to yes vote”.
Nationalists are those dangerous types who are dead against social cohesion and who are all about othering, right?
Should we grateful for a little impartial reporting of what is happening on the ground? Grateful enough to suspend our critical faculties?
Oh JoLa I can see the wheel’s coming aff this weekend.. Comedy gold me thinks..
@Thepnr says:
Totally agree thepnr the EBC balance question is not to be touched by the SNP it’s a trap! Please YES people we can shout all we like and should but understand it is toxic to the SNP.
Well done that lady though who asked the question.
Bailey @ Hammond not nice people, shallow, dishonest, insincere.
Swinney good getting better, the EBC question put him in awkward position, had to bite his tongue.
The beardy guy knows his stuff, assumes others are as clued up as himself.
Of course there won’t be an EU referendumm under the Tories. This is “Cast Iron Dave” who promised one and then renaged on a referendum before just like Clegg, Blair and Brown.
After all they like the SNP are all EU Nationalists.
John Swinney could not have answered the bias question. No matter how clever the answer he would have been asked “…but what is you opinion”. It would then have been headlined for months as unprofessional.
Loved the words on the mace question. John came over really well on that one.
Also excellent was the remark during the oil debate. “Why worry about oil in 40 years when we will have a third of Europes renewable energy in five years.
The negative Labour die hards came across really badly. Positive does trump negative.
As I’ve already said in another thread – very disappointed in Mr. Swinney there. Sometimes he let’s the side down badly. To be bested by thon fat git on an open goal is ridiculous. I voted for you Mr. Swinney and I dont pay my license fee (tax) and run the risk of jail because I will not be lied to. It’s your job to stand up for us! Ragin!
Nae offence Clootie but if ye think Yes won that debate ye need tae clean yer lugs oot. Ma twa dugs left the room shaking there heids.
Who wus the freaky bird wae the wind tunnel hair-do? Some kind o’ award or some such.
On thinking about the debate tonight – I think the biggest own goal was from the bbc – for bringing up the bias question. There must be many out there who would have never given it a second thought about the homely, comfy, first for everyday news bbc …….. until now
@Alfresco Dent
What was the question that pissed you off so much, I must have missed that.
Twenty14 says –
Let me fill you in:
Currency, Pulling & sharing resources, open & honest debate, best of both worlds, not just a spending Parliament one that raises taxes, spreading of risk secure in a bigger Union …. Blah, Blah, Blah.
Labour discussion will not helped by this ‘balloon over the bar’; kinda reminds me of this –
they’re clearly not taking this seriously.
On the BBC bias question, John Swinney got it wrong. It was always going to be a strong possibility as a question. John should have been better prepared. Above all, in politicians the populace is looking for honesty. John was evasive in not trying to answer directly.
He could have said that he personally felt that Andrew Marr had overstepped the mark – after all the FM had already caught Marr in the act. Also, as previously stated, the work of Prof Robertson was objective and proven. Who can argue otherwise with credibility?
Watched the debate. Our big problem with the undecided still seems to be the currency issue. I’m confident our war leader is following Sun Tzu – “Offer the enemy a bait to lure him, feign disorder and strike him.”
Are they saying responsibility without power? You won’t actually have responsibility because you have no power to alter or change anything.They pretend the Scottish Government has more power than it has.
Twenty14 says – (Sorry forgot the link)
Let me fill you in:
Currency, Pulling & sharing resources, open & honest debate, best of both worlds, not just a spending Parliament one that raises taxes, spreading of risk secure in a bigger Union …. Blah, Blah, Blah.
Labour discussion will not helped by this ‘balloon over the bar’; kinda reminds me of this –
link to youtube.com
they’re clearly not taking this seriously.
@Twenty14
Again I agree, James Cook was wetting himself with “Is the BBC bias then? Why don’t you answer the question?”
Half a dozen times at least he came out with this, F£ck Off.
Just listening to Newsnight Scotland, JoLa is making a fool of herself – great to see.
“If Ed Balls puts up tax rates would they have to go up in Scotland”
“Ehh…….Yes”
“Could we put them down”
“Eh……..No”
omg even Gordon is ripping this joke of a politician to shreds.
If John Swinney was to say that the bbc were bias – then every evening bulletin.for the next 6 months would finish with – ” we would like to discuss this in more detail but due to implication of bias from the SNP we thought it would be better for the viewers to decide “. No win situation for the Scottish Government
JoLa self combusts.
Hmmm The prof reckons only 3/5 know what they will definately vote, So 40% to be swayed, I know where their coming LOL. great day for Yes.
Agree Alfresco? LOL
O/T
Campbeltown Grammar School pupils Indy vote March ’14
Senior School Debate and Referendum
Thank you to all pupils in S4, S5 and S6 for your courteous, thoughtful and mature response to Friday’s debate and referendum…..
Result – FOR INDEPENDENCE – 51%
AGAINST INDEPENDENCE – 28%
DON’T KNOW – 19%
Thanks to ‘muppetanimal’ on KintyreForum for the info.
And well done to my old school
Twenty14 says
I agree with all thats been said about BBC, but John Swinney did not handle it well – should have been better prepared and ready with a barbed endorsive response; he is a politician after all and we need leadership to convince the undecided.
This will be picked up and used again by BBC so I hope YES are ready.
Copy of taxation for dummies on its way to Jola, Brewer did well there, but it was hardly a difficult task.
Today labour killed off devolution as a way forward,totaly toxic,never even close to home rule.
I won’t type text or utter the word devolution from now on
Home Rule or Independence,NOTHING LESS
night all,thx rev been a long day
@Croompenstein8.51,Its the same paper from Nov,James Morton
recipe for brownies,or is that them just getting round to your area,I was handing out Yes papers at Airdrie train station,at the same time as the BT mob & that was their issue then..
Brewer – If the Uk government put the 45P tax rate up to 50p would Scotland have to follow.
Lamont – Err i would think so. Its no wonder Labour keep her hidden.
Rev re your tweets Brewer is getting dumped later in the year so could ba WTF time for him to release his frustration. Also for info link to aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk
For goodness sakes! How many times dae ye hiv tae be telt? The NOUN is bias and the ADJECTIVE is biased.
Swinney could have handled the bias question better, but otherwise he came off pretty well.
I don’t know how he keeps the calm manner, listening to some of the lies and BS.
Sometimes you almost want him to lose the rag a bit, and have a go back at some of the idiots in the crowd..
“FFS, It’s NORMAL for every other country in the world to make their own decisions.
What makes you think we are so shit we couldn’t do it too ?? “
On the question of Bbc bias,the lady asked if there was Bbc
bais ( not specificly Marr/Salmond )but in overall terms,
James Cook directed the question away from overall bais,but
John Swinny, this is the second time he has refused to score a goal,all he needed to do was mention the UWS report & Bbc
non responce to that. Grrr
JoLa stated to Brewster that an increase in higher rate tax would generate an extra 100 Million for the Scottish Government. Gordon corrected her by stating 100Mio was the total for the UK so the correct figure would be 10 million.
Her response ? along the lines of ” whatever it is, the money will be well used ~ unbeleivable.
O/T Great YES Panel Pairing !!
If anyone is looking for a great pairing of Yes Panellists to surgically expose Better Together, from Left / Right, Younger / Older, Calculated / Passionate, Male / Female perspective, then you can do no better than
Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp / Business for Scotland
Sarah Collins / Scottish Youth STUC.
Both very impressive and ‘cover all the bases’.
Just witnessed them take appart BT case put forward in Dunoon open forum Public Debate (arranged by local press), packed hall.
Pretty even crowd at Start. Undecideds could not fail to be impressed by YES responses I’m sure; result will be posted when it comes out.
@ Gordoz – again see were your coming from and he could have come over better – but the last thing he could have said was ” yes they’re bias. bbc/MSM would have had a field day
kendomacaroonbar
Convinced shes clockwork. She did the same on STV re exact same point, press wont push this though.
Twenty14 – Agree
Just want our side to be on the ball for the public.
Just watched Newsnight tonight, found it the funniest ever with Lamont completely out of her idiotic depth.
She clearly had not got a clue what she was talking about, which showed with her tell tale neck flushing, which happens when under pressure and out of depth.
How anyone can fall for the guff Labour and Lamont are coming out with really need to wake up and smell the coffee
And Wings got a mention as informative.
@CameronB says:
Nationalists are those dangerous types who are dead against social cohesion and who are all about othering
I groupthink it’s Othering Sunday on 30th March.
A Toast To Devo Max
Sadly, today we heard of the passing away of one of our great friends from Bizarro World.
Devo Max for a long long time…gave us hope.
Devo Max for a long long time…gave us belief.
Sadly, again…we now know that will not come to pass.
But let us not despair, lets instead rejoice it is what he would have wished.
Funeral 19th Sept Holyrood, no flowers please.
Donations to the less fortunate and food banks welcome.
This weekend will be Better Together’s last throw of the dice.
It’s all down to the Scottish Labour Party Conference and how they are going to project a positive case for voting NO.
And going by today’s showing, then I would say that it is all over.
They have nothing left to offer the Scottish people.
Well maybe they have one thing left to offer us.
Fear!
Caz-m
And Amusement!
David Cameron’s EU re-negotiations under Article 48 and subsequent referendum, only makes sense if Scotland votes for independence. So he must be hoping that will be the outcome..
My inner grammar Nazi tells me that the BBC has bias and is biased.
Here she is trying her best but unfortunately it is , as usual, not up to scratch. Two years of labour thinking and planning to deliver…nothing!
I don’t think she understands any of this stuff.
From 4mins.50secs in to start interview
link to bbc.co.uk
My inner grammar Nazi tells me that there is BBC bias and it is biased.
O/T – Stornoway to be Torn Away?
Not many people read the Stornoway Gazette, but sometimes you have to seek out the Big Picture. I’m surprised this is a Scottish Parliament initiative: the conspiracy theorist who visits my head occasionally suspects it could be a further attempt by the NO campaign to create a large sgadan dearg [red herring].
link to archive.is
Referendum debate Kirkcaldy for those who missed it.
link to bbc.co.uk
gordoz at 11.41
Like the slaughter of the innocents. I suspect many of the huge audience will have been surprised (and alarmed if they were NAWS)at the paucity of the Better Together case and the pathetic attempts to answer questions.
Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp terrific, Sarah Collins a revelation
Most significant remark made by Rob Shorthouse was that “this pays my mortgage”. I kid you not. He didn’t sound convinced himself.
I would guess the count will be about 3 to 1 for YES
A little further reading from the wiki link I posted re. imperialism, brought me to this;
Imperialism: A Study (1902), by John A. Hobson, is a politico–economic discourse about the negative financial, economic, and moral aspects of imperialism as a nationalistic business enterprise.
The “taproot of imperialism” is not in nationalist pride, but in capitalist oligarchy; and, as a form of economic organization, imperialism is unnecessary and immoral, the result of the mis-distribution of wealth in a capitalist society…..
link to en.wikipedia.org
How it works is this.
Swinney says BBC are biased and tomorrow’s papers carry Darling, Murphy, Davidson, etc saying Scottish government is trying to influence national broadcaster, bullying them and so on.
Everyone knows the media are biased. Swinney does not have to say so.
It seems that intelligent ordinary people are seeing right through the scaremongering by Better Together and Big Business.
I was delighted to hear a comment from a BBC audience member to the effect that if the likes of Standard Life leave, there are intelligent people in Scotland who will fill the void.
That is exactly my view. I would love to see all the parasites leave so that our independent country can be run by honest, decent people.
Another thing Scotland is full of – decent, fair minded people.
John Swinney was in a catch 22 situation with the BBC bias question last night, “dammned if he does, dammned if does’nt”, I dont think as a Scottish government minister he can really call the state-broadcaster bias on live TV.
So he did the best thing he can do in that situation and avoided answering the question directly. But the best thing about the question was it brought BBC bias fully out into the open on live TV and they did it to themselves.
The genie is now out of the bottle and it an’it going back.
@Craig says:
Very good point on those who wish to leave. Others will take their place !
@Dave McEwan Hill – Dunoon debate
Think the closing question was .. without using political blurb what does the independence debate mean to you personally.
Reasonable expected responses from other panellists but strange final comment of the evening; from Mr Shorthouse Director of Communications at Better Together …
“This Independence debate pays for my mortgage.. thats all I want to say”.
Pretty sure thats what I heard no doubt it will be in the local paper.
Regarding bias, Swinney did the right thing.
I’m sure I’ve previously heard YES representatives say that they don’t see the BBC as biased, so for him to not answer directly makes a marked point, and to go on stress the obligation on the BBC for impartiality was as close to agreeing with the accusation as he could go.
“This Independence debate pays for my mortgage.. thats all I want to say”
This is the thing, none on the Better Together side have grown up thinking ‘my main ambition is to protect the union’ (because until recently it wasn’t particularly under threat). For them this is just a temp job, Blare McD in particular.
For the YES side though this is a cause more than just a campaign and many have devoted a lifetime to it. This motivation is part of what sets the two sides apart when it comes to presenting their cases, that and the fact that they are on the right side of course
Brewer actually got Ms Lamont to admit that the whole point of the incoherent tax policy (up but not down) was simply to stop the SNP embarrassing a future Westminster government.
If ever we wondered whether ‘Scottish’ Labour had Scotland’s interests at heart here have in her own words an admission that all that matters is Labour in Westminster and Scotland can go hang in pursuit of that aim.
On reading the various posts above I am coming round to a more generous assessment of John Swinney’s response to the BBC bias question. I think his dissembling was understandable for the reasons outlined above, and on reflection I feel my sense of let down, (and one shared by many in the audience), was actually more related to my own anger and frustration with the BBC. People are getting very up-tight about this issue and so looking on the bright side we now know many people fel the same way and that the genie is well and truly out of the bottle (at last)!
John Swinney was quite right not to come out and attack the BBC head on – it would poison the debate right up to the vote, and leave him open to constant attack from all media outlets for accusations of intimidating broadcasters.
What he could have done is asked the audience what they thought on the matter, and asked the BBC about their own research (which they have carried out since December).
The fact is that the genie is out of the bottle to the extent the public are now querying BBC impartiality on BBC debates. That should have them shitting their pants/getting their act together.
Concentrate on the message, not the messenger or message-filter.
Well course, his hard political facts were most likely a political lie