A serious allegation
Posted on
September 20, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We’ve been meaning to mention this curious extract from a “Please send us cash!” mailshot that “Better Together” sent out this week:
It’s the middle sentence that caught our eye. We’re reasonably sure that the Scottish Government isn’t allowed under either Electoral Commission or Scottish Parliament rules to “spend millions of pounds of public money on propaganda campaigns”.
And while we also know that there are very few rules about political organisations telling lies to voters, one of the few that DOES exist is a prohibition against falsehoods where “the specific statement in question is part of a direct solicitation for money”, which this quite clearly is.
We might just have to drop the ASA a wee line.
“We might just have to drop the ASA a wee line”
On ye go, do a thing…..
Nice spot.
As for government propaganda campaigns, what do they call the UK Government’s endless splurge of tedious “Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid” papers? How much money is being spent on trying to convince Scots to go against their best interests?
Obviously they do this kind of thing because they can get away with it, but I’m wondering will this be the case indefinitely? Will there be a final straw that a regulator or the MSM will have to act upon because it’s just so heinous and blatant?
Why are they so short of money? Have they spent that half million from their very dodgy donor already?
There is also the small matter of the extra 5 million war chest for the BBC to *’cover’ the referendum.
*campaign against Scotland in
As per usual, its the way they like to word things.
I suspect by saying “more than prepared” rather than “are spending” they can slip through any ASA noose. Its supposition rather than fact.
I’d expect a slap on the wrist at most whilst Joe public gets the obvious intended message.
Please don’t let them get away with any more lies!
I don’t think the ASA’s heads button up the back. UKOK may have imagined that wording would get them a free pass, but I very much doubt that would be the case.
“More than prepared” very strongly suggests that they are spending the money.
They might have had wriggle room if they had left it at “prepared”.
Better Together has unlimited resources. No one should be in any doubt about that. Their request for money is a fig leaf to cover the availibility of those vast resources and gull the innocent into believing we’re operating on a level playing field here.
If you transfer that to any other situation where someone is being accused of a criminal act, it might become clearer. Suppose someone said in public that a rival tradesman was prepared to overcharge customers? I don’t think that would be acceptable. Suppose they said the rival was “more than prepared” to overcharge customers?
I noticed that sentence myself and thought it was outrageous, but it didn’t cross my mind there was anything that could be done about it. That’s why we pay Stu, of course. The problem is, the most that could happen is that they’d be told to remove the statement, and they’d simply comply. The chances of such a ruling being reported in the press or by the BBC are non-existent.
Better Together has unlimited resources. No one should be in any doubt about that. Their request for money is a fig leaf to cover the availibility of those vast resources and gull the innocent into believing we’re operating on a level playing field here.
^^ This. ^^
I remember at a Yes meeting, the presenter remarking that her opposite number in UKOK had been heard saying that he had so much money available he simply didn’t know what to do with it.
@Training day
“Their request for money is a fig leaf to cover the availibility of those vast resuorces and gull the innocent into believing we’re operating on a level playing field here.”
I think it is more of a propaganda piece to gull the innocent into believing that the SNP government is mis-spending their taxes.
ASA don’t deal with political advertising I’m afraid, and we’re not in 16 week period so outwith remit of Electoral Commission too.
It would have to be held up as breaking the law by the Scottish Government/SNP.
I agree with the Rev that the Scottish Government are simply not allowed to spend taxpayers’ money on, as they put it, a propaganda campaign. It’s an outright lie.
Not surprising really. You can tell when they lie: Their lips move.
Perhaps a FOI on the time and cost of Treasury staff producing reports on Scottish independence would not go amiss either seeing as this is “a matter for the Scottish people”.
Albalha..Good point…Im now thinking along the lines of the Tom Cruise movie / John Grisham novel The Firm. The only way Tom can get his wicked company prosecuted is by using Postal Fraud as the companies (overcharging) invoices were mailed.
I wonder, if these claims are being sent out in targetted mail or junk mail, is there a law against sending falsehoods via the mail here?
@HandandShrimp
Or the publications of the Scottish Affairs Committee
more doubleshite form the Labour run NO campaign, it’s the Westminster government that has millions to spend on propaganda (celebrating beginning of WW1, Jubilympics, Royals ad nauseam etc) and their propaganda machines of the BBC and the compliant press. BT want to give the impression that they are pressured by the strong malevolent dark forces of the seperendum run by evil Lord Eck, to motivate labour voters into a (currently non-existent) grass-roots campaign. Reality is they need to spend the cash greasing the grubby hands of the Scottish media. Their only way of winning is to try and turn it into a straight Labour v SNP fight and they would lose that as well!
Albalha
Perhaps we need a 26 week official campaign period rather than the 16 week proposed.
Albalha
ASA don’t deal with political advertising
But this is not a political advert. It is not trying to affect voting intentions in the referendum. This, to me, looks like a fundraising advert.
Well if you are paying Better Together campaign staff salaries up to £100k a year then the money is sure to run out sooner rather than later.
Can we compile a list of the BT Team and how much they are getting paid and what expenses they are claiming? That certainly would make interesting reading.
@MurrayMcCallum I don’t think they’d accept that argument, BT are clearly campaigning for a NO vote in a poltical referendum.
They stay out of matters political.
One of the many compelling reasons for independence is the nature and quality of politicians and politics that work for the UK.
What would the reaction be if the boot was on the other foot, say, with the middle sentance becoming:
“We know that the unionists have a huge war chest at their disposal and that the Scotland Office are more than prepared to spend millions of pounds of public money on propaganda campaigns”
@Desimond
Only in the movies as they say.
Just had a madcap thought though. Could a taxpayer or group of taxpayers claim use of their money was being defamed, if that makes even vague sense.
Not fully clued up in the law of defamation but I reckon that’s the route, if there is one.
All the best from Australia to you guys up there.
I hope you all enjoy the march the morro.
Hope the weather is kind and you reach the 60,000 plus mark.
Have friends arriving from Scotland on Sunday night with a much sought after bottle of Royal Lochnagar. Will toast you all then.
The UK government are funding propaganda at a cost to us as UK taxpayers. Have a look at this little gem
which contains a load of nonsense. Dig back to find who funded it and you will see the hand of Westminster in the the shape of the Dept of Business Innovation and Skills.
Just imagine if the Scottish Government did this?
Better together are a private limited company limited by guarantee. They are not a political party. They are raising income on a false premise. The people making donations to this company on the back of this advert are, to me, being relieved of their money on a falsehood.
So far Better Together have received donations of £1,118,451.
It’s direct campaign costs are;
£10 will enable us to buy leaflets to go to 10 streets.
£25 will enable us to buy materials for an afternoon’s campaigning in a town centre.
£50 means we can leaflet 50 streets!
£100 will enable us to fund online advertising for a day.
£500 would fund the work of a campaign organiser for a week.
It has been reported that several of the campaign team are earning up to £100k a year.
Rental on their offices must be substantial. Also the campaign team must have substantial expense claims.
Is Better Together, a Labour run campaign, running out of Tory money?
If that is the case, then the irony of Alistair Darling heading an organisation that is going bust will not be lost.
BT hard up for cash? – serve them right, the lying bunch of fraudsters.
Hope they get their knuckles well and truly wrapped for this – though I won’t be holding my breath.
A Yes vote next year is the best payback I can think of.
@Albalha – Well in the compensation culture we live in…we need some ambulance chasing lawyer to raise a claim for “emotional distress” against the Scottish Government. The Govt then contest the claim by saying “We arenae”..the lawyer says “Well it says here you are!”..the Government then say “Right BT…you’re getting it!”
We can but dream.
Why doesn’t Darling put his dosh where his gob is? He could surely do a few gigs, help out his fellow travellers. 10k a throw.
@Gillies – I suspect its more likely:
£25 will enable us to buy materials for an afternoon’s champagning in a town centre.
@MurrayMcAllum
Feel free to phone the ASA in London and ask them but I think they’d deem it political, more than happy to be proved wrong of course.
O/T but of interest to those previously discussing Flanders/the March tomorrow. Apologies if link already posted
link to scottishindependenceconvention.org
o/t Apologies, but I think some might enjoy this little article;
Douglas Alexander ‘Knifed’ His Sister, Claims Damian McBride
@Keith Brodie re. Stabber Alexander
Ahh! How unlike the home life of our own dear Eck
Albalha says:
Feel free to phone the ASA in London
Just submitted my complaint online. Would have been good to have the whole leaflet but scanned in the extract in the article. It’s very easy. They say I get a reply 3-5 days.
Cheeky spot …. can’t hide an out & out lie ! I would go for the jugular here.
off topic and i realise i may not be permited to comment on here again after saying this but i would like to say, to me, gordon brewer is a disrespectful prick
@David
I’m sure Stu will forgive your outburst.
There is no higher religion than truth.
If you wish to complain at ASA, the full article from BT is found here
link to bettertogether.net
Drop the a line!!!!
Just read this comment that just about sums it up by Richard Aitken on a piece by Iain Macwhirter in the Herald:-
“If you vote no, never EVER complain about Westminster policies again. You voted for it. You voted for the next UK war lead by Washington, you voted for continually seeing the wealth of the nation being pooled and sent to the top 1 or 2 percent while politicians in red pretending to be socialists tell you they are sharing resources across the UK, you voted for retention of trident and other weapons of mass destruction, you voted for get Salmond at any cost, you voted for the continuing decimation of our industries, you voted for an agenda lead by the bampot fringe of UKIP blaming European immigration for the decline of the UK, you voted for the next Margaret Thatcher coming along, you voted for wicked taxation like the next Poll tax and the next bedroom tax, you voted for seeing the continuing redistribution of wealth to one section of these islands over all others and you voted to be looked at by the world at large as the most cowardly, subservient and gutless nation on the planet. Never call yourself Scottish ever again if you vote no because decades of self-doubt, the Scottish cringe and increased negativity are your future. You’ll be asked by your grandchildren when they see the devastation of the country you and they live in (where it will be 1 in 2 children in some areas living in poverty or worse thanks to the pocket money of the block grant being reduced further or the Parliament being taken away as it is not a permanent institution, boys and girls “
Should also report it to the Electoral Commission but they are worse than a chocolate tea pot and generally let the “big two” parties away with things.
The Electoral Commission refused to put referendum rules in place regarding funding from outside Scotland or use of direct mail shots and call centres outside Scotland.
What do you expect from an organisation that allows the use of Scottish Labour Scottish Conservative and Scottish Liberal Democrats to appear on ballot papers when no such parties are registered with the Electoral Commission.
Desimond
Thanks for posting that. You do not actually need the “evidence” but I’m sure it helps. It’ll be interesting to see what ASA say.
I made the complaint against Better Together Company limited by guarantee SC425421. It’s easy to do online link to asa.org.uk
As well as the regulation point made by Rev Stu I said the Scottish government’s published budget contained no item called “propaganda campaigns”. I put forward that this company was seeking to raise income from members of the public on a false premise. Probably better ways to say it all – I’m no lawyer (just like Jo Public).
@MurrayMcAllum
It’ll be interesting to see if the argument laid out in the article works, let us know when you know if they’re going to state it’s a breach.
@ Marian.
Aint that the truth from Richard Aitken
@AnotherLondonDividend.
The EC only kick in during the 16 week official period.
O/T
On Royal Mail why do Unionists never recognise that an independent Scotland is entitled to 8.4% of the UK’s shared assets?
In 2007 the UK government owned assets worth £337 billion, the Treasury calculated but excluded those worth less than £1 million from the National Asset Register.
link to news.bbc.co.uk
We should remember that it was Labour who first opened up unfair competition to the Royal Mail then brought forward a Bill to privatise the Royal Mail. This only cancelled because Mandelsson did not think he would raise enough money given the economic downturn.
Labour will not put real pressure on the Westminster government by refusing to say it would re- nationalise the Royal Mail which would deter potential investors and stop the privatisation.
I’ve managed to slip a link to this article onto the BT facebook page. It won’t last though!
“….but to ensure we reach every voter with our positive message we need money.”
anyway, I’m glad I now understand the reason why BT have so far failed to deliver a positive message….it’s apparently because they have no money.
I might just drop them off a stamped SAE so they can tell me what this positive message actually is…….maybe they can also tell me at the same time why it is if I vote “no” I won’t get the status quo, i’ll get the uncertainty of some ill-defined DevoMore. I do wish the opposition parties in Scotland would focus their attention on scrutinising government and the things that matter to ordinary voters rather than being continually distracted by constitutional irrelevancies like DevoMore. I thought that DevoMax/DevoMore business had been settled for a generation.
Marian, compare that with Derek Bateman’s blog post from yesterday – the one published by NNS.
I think we need actual speeches like these actually said by people on our actual TVs, not now but in the late summer of next year. We can’t go on pretending to be cerebral and asking for a set of audited accounts showing whether we’ll be tuppence ha’penny better off one way or another.
We need passion about our identity, and to hell with the people who say our identity means so little that it’s irrelevant to this debate. We need passionate speeches about the hell-hole Westminster is turning our country into, and that a No vote is a positive vote for that to happen.
Let’s hope we get them, if not from the politicians from the likes of Derek Bateman, Pat Kane, Alan Bissett and so on.
They don’t need money, they need boots on the ground. Maybe they’re planning to pay for them?
Why are they so short of money?
Spent it all on ads for their facebook page.
R Stuart Campbell.
Just sent you an email on what looks like another serious misinformation issue.
A friend told me he was fed up to the back teeth of the referendum, didn’t want to hear any more, and was voting No.
So I’ve given him a copy of Private Eye telling him there was nothing about Scotland or the referendum in it. I’ve asked him to read HP Sauce, In the Back, Rotten Boroughs and learn exactly how westminster, whitehall, House of Lords, lobbyists etc. work, then come and tell me that he honestly believes these are institutions that he trusts, holds dear, wants to protect, and feels they represent the best interests of him and his society. Because a No vote is a vote for that system. The system your Scottish Labour elite want to embrace for their own self gratification. A no vote is a vote for Jim Murphy’s ermine jaiket. I mean, Lord Jeremy Purves? How bogus is that?
He’d never heard of Jeremy Purves. I’ll not hold my breath.
Ananurhing – Many thanks for your post. Ive sat reading Private Eye getting angrier and angrier at its Anti-Salmond stance but now having read your post I now feel better at the lack of Scottish coverage, clearly folk in this country just arent trying hard enough to be so bad! ( despite our misgivings, especially at local councils)
I don’t think for one minute that better together are hard up for money. They were meant to publish their donations more than 3 months ago, but refused to do so. I believe that they have lots of cash from all and sundry from big business+Tory party funders from down South, going through their coffers probably amounting to millions. Moreover they will want it spent before they declare it. They know they will be criticised for the bringing in Tory money, but it will have been spent, job done.
BT have a bloody chee asking for cash, cash that will be used to suppress Scots in the long term.
O/T.
The topsy turvy world of the unionist bias media who cant seem to make their mind up if YES is ahead or if no is ahead.
link to newsnetscotland.com
Desimond, I don’t know. Glasgow City Council could give some of the rotten boroughs a run for their money. Hence Blair McD saying he’d like to bypass Holyrood to get their grubby mitts on handouts from westminster.
I think Stu could have a seperate Private Eye style Hall of Infamy dedicated to highlighting bare faced corruption and lies within Scottish political circles. He could call it ” Scurrilous Bastards.” Mind you, I guess that’s what WoS is all about.
The great thing about web sites like WoS is that they are able to react immediately to any obvious deceptions by the Unionist opposition and their press
YES and the SNP would probably react likewise but via a press release to the media at large. And will they print it or broadcast the complaint. Not on your nelly
It is so very important that we widen participation. It is the ONLY way.
Asking for money is a psychological trigger that implies they are asking for your support because it is for a worthy cause. Even if they were awash with filthy lucre – and we know that it is most definitely ‘filthy lucre’, it is the message more than the need that’s important for them.
Another bonus point that was raised by a very unlikely source, is that the finish of the Union is also the end to loyalism on both sides of the fence. No Union flag waving – what’s the point when it has become irrelevant to an independent Scotland. No knee jerk reactions from them opposed to loyalism. Tribalism snuffed out. Religious bigotry nailed to the floor, never to get back on its feet again. Isn’t that worth a price to decent Scots of every hue?
The levers of dissent and disharmony used by the torag establishment – splitting the people, to keep their weird notion of public control firmly in their pockets – neighbour against neighbour, gone in a flash. Isn’t that also worth doing – if only to be rid of these cynical manipulators.
If Scotland is truly aiming for the stars – aiming to reach its fullest potential – these are most certainly two of the most malignant sources of public and civic unrest in Scotland and worth a kings ransom to be rid of. Yet it can be accomplished by one simple YES victory.
Is there any more powerful an argument to put to the No-ists and their continuation of the status-quo! There is simply no way to answer back.
Nice wee piece by the young lady, Saffron Dickson.
link to nationalcollective.com
Sorry, O/T
Managed to borrow a friend’s computer to make a quick post.
Just want to say good luck to everyone going to the March and Rally in Edinburgh tomorrow. Can’t go this year, got to be in Taiwan and China until the beginning of next year, but I’m envious as hell of all you lot that are! Was there last year and it was terrific. Hope you all have a great day and full of memories to cherish.
Less than a year to go, now, and the ‘Yes’ numbers are growing by the day, no matter what lies the MSM are telling. Independence will be ours, folks. It’s coming yet for aw that!
Well if BT are stuck for money, why doesn’t Darling give JK Rowling a phone and she can stump up another million like she did for Broon and the Labour Party. Or maybe now that Broon has started ‘Unitied with Labour’ she’ll be donating to them.
Someone mentioned the Electoral Commission earlier. There’s been a lot of remarks regarding further devo talks after a ‘no’ vote, the latest being Alexander today. It’s about time the EC started telling the unionists that they expect a full disclosure of what the country can expect to happen in the event of such a vote before the vote actually happens.
The Electoral Commission doesn’t fill me with confidence, and their silence over this is worrying.
Oh, the poor wee lambs. Unable to survive on the meagre charity given to them by the speculators of London and now reduced to begging like this!
I would suggest that beggars are always more successful if they don’t insult the intelligence of their donors while standing with open palms. Better Together do not appear to agree.
I hope to meet all of you tomorrow on the Royal Mile. I’m the mood to give the United Kingdom a good talking-to.
I came across this quote, and I think it’s entirely fitting when we use words like “serious allegation” and by extension the whole Cybernat issue:
I am aware that many object to the severity of my language; but is there not cause for severity? I will be as harsh as truth, and as uncompromising as justice. On this subject, I do not wish to think, or to speak, or write, with moderation. No! no! Tell a man whose house is on fire to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hands of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen; — but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present. I am in earnest — I will not equivocate — I will not excuse — I will not retreat a single inch — AND I WILL BE HEARD. The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal, and to hasten the resurrection of the dead.
– William Lloyd Garrison, on the abolition of slavery
This is why I’m fine with calling people voting for the Union “anti-Scottish,” or “crazy,” or anything like that. When you’re being faced with such bare-faced lies as the BT leaflet above, you cannot afford to use “moderation” in response. That doesn’t mean responding in kind with more lies, or to use petty insults and ad hominem: it means responding with brutal honesty. Because this is too important to let natural inclination towards being non-confrontation stand in the way.
If you’re voting for the continuation of rule from the Westminster government, with all the information available, and all the precedent for every evil thing it’s done, at the expense of powers for the Scottish government and people, then what else can you be called BUT “anti-Scottish”? If you honestly profess to remain part of a former empire of which not a SINGLE COUNTRY has sought to return, where nearly every other country in recent memory has voted for independence, what else could you be called but “crazy”? Spare me your drivel about being a “proud Scot” and all those empty words about a fantastical federalism that will not come to pass within the next half-century, let alone year. The lives of my family, my friends, and their children are too important to waste on wishy-washy ideals of some socialist miracle occurring: I’m going to take the only option which presents believable promises for change.
If that means being called a Cybernat, then by God you can call me whatever the hell you like. Because Scotland’s house is on fire, Scotland’s loved ones are in danger, and independence is the only way to get us out – you’d better believe I will not stop to think how someone might be offended by the choice of words I use in saving the people I care about and the country I love. We are in earnest, we will not equivocate, we will not excuse, we will not retreat an inch, and WE WILL BE HEARD.
@Marian.
I’ve been saying that from day one.
No unionist voter can complain about Westminster policies, because they have given them the mandate to do what they like to Scotland.
New lamps for old…. Oh Sorry wrong pantomime!
It’s deja’ vu all over again….
A year to go and the Better together jamboree turns up the heat and all the fun of the Union Fair.
Darling / Alexander / Call me Dave / Lamont / Rennie / Calman you can see them all here..
Cafe Rennie selling empire biscuits and scones with ‘Tomorrow Jam’
Darling and Alexander the Snake oil salesmen with better together medicine and a free squealing thing in a poke if you vote NO.
The hall of distorting smoke and mirrors and the free ride on the unionist scary ghost train about the fear of independence.
Three shell game everyone a winner where you might get something for nothing or get your unionist fortune told by Lamont and her crystal ball.
Or Hypno Calman ,trust me ..watch the watch…watch the watch.. I am sending back in time to 1979…watch the watch….Aye right!
Don’t be tempted folks try the YES tent across on the other side.
Here is a bit of Alexander’s nonsense today.
……………………………………………………………………………………………….
All three of the main Unionist parties have promised to draw up proposals for devolving more powers if Scots reject independence that will be included in their 2015 general election manifestos.
However, Douglas Alexander, Labour’s Shadow Foreign Secretary, has called for a new national convention of civic and political leaders after the referendum to examine in detail Scotland’s priorities and problems.
David Cameron has also given his support to the creation of a body charged with drawing up a new constitutional settlement for the entire UK, rather than merely further powers for one of the three devolved administrations.
Sir Kenneth, who is the University of Glasgow’s Chancellor, said: “It would not be necessary for such a commission to start work until after September 2014, but the concept could be agreed and the composition considered before then so it would be ready to go, should the result of the Referendum be that Scotland remains in the UK.
“This would reassure the public in Scotland that the evolution will continue.
He said the relationship between Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom is a not a “static situation” and his commission realised its recommendations, issued in 2009, were not the “end of the story”.
A new commission would examine the different plans of the political parties, other organisations and individuals, he said, including considering the formation of a federal UK.
The latter plan is supported by the Liberal Democrats and would see the vast majority of financial powers transferred to Holyrood, with Westminster retaining control over areas such as defence and foreign affairs.
But Sir Kenneth said any further devolution to Scotland must be considered in the context of the entire UK, with the English, Welsh and Northern Irish kept fully informed about the discussions.
The recommendations would be submitted to Westminster and the three devolved administrations.
link to newstatesman.com
@tartanfever.
Why does Darling need to go to JK Rowlings (I take your point) when he can have a fund raising dinner in Chelsea to get donations.
Right I’m off on my way to Calton Hill. I’ll see you all behind the Tron 10.30am. I’ll be there with my 2 Daughters 14 & 16 who really want to be there. It’s all about them, and creating a society fit for them to base their futures here. Otherwise I think they’ll be gone, with my blessings.
I’m closing up and foregoing a weekends business to be there. I’m even staying at the Dragon in Law’s grotto tonight. Worse still, I’ll have to eat her wing of bat stew with presbyterian tatties. (No salt, no butter, no milk. Garlic or spring onions would be deemed unbridled popery.)
I think I really deserve a shiny Wings badge for that alone, but I’ll be happy just to have the privilege of mingling in such esteemed company. See you there.
This from the Electoral Commission’s ‘Public Awareness’ Document dated 26th June 2013.
Section 3.6
We have asked the Scottish and UK Governments to clarify for voters what
would happen next in the event of a Yes or No vote at the referendum. We are
aware that the Scottish and UK Governments are currently considering this issue,
although we are not part of these discussions. If this clarity is provided it would be
included in our information booklet, along with other information about how to
participate. However, we will not seek to explain the issues or campaign arguments.
(My bold ) – there we have it – plain as day. Maybe someone would like to ask Douglas Alexander, Darling or Cameron if they intend to stand by the structure set out by the EC or if they intend to ignore them.
If thats the case, I think the Scottish people deserve to know exactly what’s happening.
alexicon – it’s a shorther trip with her living in Edinburgh, he can just pop over to Barnton, 15 min in the car from Morningside. Until last year he could have just walked up the road as they were neighbours.
@Ananurhing
Right I’m off on my way to Calton Hill. I’ll see you all behind the Tron 10.30am. I’ll be there with my 2 Daughters 14 & 16 who really want to be there. It’s all about them, and creating a society fit for them to base their futures here. Otherwise I think they’ll be gone, with my blessings.
Judging by WoS Twitter the meeting place has been changed….
“Judging by WoS Twitter the meeting place has been changed….”
I haven’t got a damn clue. Getting all sorts of conflicting messages. So far Plan A is still go until someone definitively tells me otherwise.
Can these people really do and say what they want and get away with it.
I too would like to say to all of those who will be at the big event in Auld Reekie tomorrow, how much I envy you as my health precludes me from being there, at least physically, but I will be with you in spirit, I wish you all the best and a great turnout,
Enjoy and remember those words from the poem from Bannockburn.
Small folk playing our part. ‘Come all ye’, the country says You win me, who take me most to heart.”
Just meaningless to our opponents but everything to us!
@Taranaich 5.15pm
Great post, frankly passionate and inspiring. Will put a more determined step into my marching tomorrow.
Taranaich,
There really should have been some inspiring music playing the background to that last post. I’m pumped up for this now!
@Taranaich
I second @jond. It’s not an easy path of course, I’m now seen as ‘rabid’, even to YES voters! As you say the time of not speaking up LOUDLY is at an end, when you’re up against such malevolence.
Why is this a ‘serious’ allegation? Surely it should be a simple statement of fact?
The No mob are liars.
Has the ‘gathering’ been changed?
Great quote Taranaich.
‘I think it is more of a propaganda piece to gull the innocent into believing that the SNP government is mis-spending their taxes’
Block grant surely?
I haven’t got a damn clue. Getting all sorts of conflicting messages. So far Plan A is still go until someone definitively tells me otherwise.
What’s your plan B? You don’t have one do you. Just like that fat Salmond! You nats are just making this up as you go along.
🙂
I always have a Plan B. It is always “kill everyone”.
We need answers to these important questions Rev. How can we make an informed decision as to where we march from if you can’t provide simple details.
Your asking us to follow you into a dark room with some doors in it that we might be able to open except for the one we came in through or something or other……….
We need answers now!!
Eh? Have they spent Ian Taylor’s dosh already?!
Anyone who has this mailing SHOULD make a complaint to the ASA. Otherwise, they are free to continue this kind of lie. All right, maybe they will continue anyway, but they should at least face some consequences of their lying.
Ach well we will just have to make them the WOS pipe band if they are there Rev. They can just lead us in the march.
I’m still aiming to be at the Tron – come hell or a wee malt
“I’m still aiming to be at the Tron”
If we can’t be at Hunter Square we’ll be as close as possible to it.
rev, you on a train, plane or automobile? or have you crossed the boarder already?
see ya tomorrow, or seeing as i don’t know what you look like, i’ll see the bloke with a big flag tomorrow!
“rev, you on a train, plane or automobile”
I’ll be on the train in from Bathgate.
I’m sticking to plan A.
Go into the pub next to the Tron Kirk that looks as if i’ll get served the quickest. 🙂
Then look out for the blackshirts. Or is it the brownshirts?
This website has totally screwed up mah brain – I went out to a SPAR shop to get some cold meat and lettuce for an inflight MegaBus picnic and all I came back with was Chocolate Raisins, Jelly Beans and Empire Biscuits. See y’all soon.
Feck me!
Reporting Scotland has just said that it looks like being a great day out in Edinburra for Scottish folk the morn! Everone get along for the beer, the speeches, the music, the beer, the speeches and the beer.
Has Boothman been locked in the shitey?
O/T sorry, Kate and Wills hoping for second pregnancy by Xmas. Who would have thought it…..
link to mydaily.co.uk
Except you should complain to Ofcom, not ASA. Ofcom handles political advertising. Hope everyone has a great time at the March!
link to consumers.ofcom.org.uk
I think this is the correct link, if anyone cares to.
Ach this is bad, I was going to take a leaf out the apple mobs book and go camp out overnight to get my wings badge. Now what if Im at the Tron and you lot are at Hunter Square, that would be a disaster.
Okay, have done some checking and Plan A appears to still be sound. The gold post box it is.
@tartanfever.
Again I take your point, but is London not where his heart is?
Got you there 🙂
@rabb. It’ll be the pub then.
I thought the Tron and Hunter Square were rather close to each other…I’ve had a hard day at the office……/\(Oo)/\
The Albanach opens at 10.
It’s opposite Hunter Square.
The Rally starts organising at 11.
No brainer for me…
AlexMci says:
20 September, 2013 at 6:43 pm
Now what if I’m at the Tron and you lot are at Hunter Square, that would be a disaster. Not really Alex, Hunter square is tiny and you’ll be able to have a foot on the steps of the Tron and one in Hunter Square.
link to royal-mile.com
REV an overspill might be from the Square down Blair (not Tony)) street and into the Coo gate. It’ll mean an uphill start for the folks at the bottom end though.
PS Had a look at the Edinburgh Evening Pravda (the early morning milk and rolls edition – I kid you not) and unless I missed a very small article – I couldn’t see a mention of the rally – funny that. Well not really.
Rev, what’s the plan if we bump into Euan McColm ?
Do we run for the exits or are you supplying the gas masks ?
Do I need to bring a hard hat ?
Not surprised by BT, the whole Union crap is just more of the same.
OT Labour commit to scrapping the bedroom tax so Baille was right
link to theguardian.com
UKIP in meltdown on Channel 4, though they’ve still got their supporters, I doubt it will shake their commitment.
Jen, what that tells me is Labour are desperate over the 2015 Westminster election and will now say anything to get the votes in. They will never scrap the tax if they got into power.
Truth be told, parts of Labour have probably already given up on the next GE.
Weather forecast for tomorrow is:
Overcast but dry.
Temp 15/16 C
Wind speed 10 mph
Gusting up to 21/22 mph (for the comb-overs) 😀
All the best for everyone tomorrow from Canada; wish I wiznae here but there!
Labours announcement on the bedroom tax smacks of pure desparation.
# Taranaich
“This is why I’m fine with calling people voting for the Union “anti-Scottish,” or “crazy,” or anything like that.”
If you watch this short feature, it shows the context in which those two quotes are used..
The Fear Factor: ‘The Truth, the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth’ (3 of 6)
Labour haven’t promised that scrapping the Bedroom Tax will be in their manifesto. Until then, it’s just bollocks.
What’s the betting on Ed promising everything, then someone else replaces him, and says he isn’t held to the former leaders promises?
I simply can’t see Ed leading into the next GE.
# tartanfever
Any plans will be put on hold if Labour win the next GE.
They have promised to keep to the present government’s spending plans in their first two years in office.
Re. Douglas Alexander and his desire for a “new national convention of civic and political leaders after the referendum to examine in detail Scotland’s priorities and problems.”
He could get some pointers here.
link to un.org
re Labour scrapping the bedroom tax..
Housing Benefit has doubled to £21 billion in the 10 years to 2011.
If it continues at that rate it will be £25 billion by 2015.
The Housing Benefit bill for the UK has increased by two and half times the rate in Scotland.
While a future, independent Scottish Government can afford to scrap it, a future Labour Government will robbing Peter to pay Paul.
What happens if we bump into mcolm first he gets a right good boll***** then whoops censored
Just a quick tip Rev, when taking screenies of just text it’s usually best to save as a .png It’ll look far cleaner and probably be a smaller file size so it’ll load quicker (more useful over mobiles).
Anyway, keep up the good work.
Thanks SO MUCH for the kind comments, folks, it makes me feel a bit better after a rough day. Probably explains my emotional cybernattery!
If you watch this short feature, it shows the context in which those two quotes are used..
The Fear Factor: ‘The Truth, the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth’ (3 of 6)
I was thinking of precisely that, actually. The problem is that even outside of their original contexts (which do completely change what the words mean), I think calling anti-independence advocates “anti-Scottish” is practically the mildest thing you could call them. And considering out of all the referendums since the last century resulted in independence, Scotland voting against it would make it part of a very small minority of countries who have said no – and none of the countries which did say no have even a fraction the potential of Scotland, thus, making “crazy” a valid (if hyperbolic) description in terms of how unusual it would be.
Thing is, “anti-Scottish” isn’t the same as saying No voters are North-Britain-style dissolutionists who think Scotland’s independent institutions should be abolished or devolution rolled back entirely, nor does it mean they want to embark on some sort of cultural cleansing. It could mean something as simple as believing Scottish autonomy is not in the people of Scotland’s best interests, rather, preferring the UK. It isn’t “British, not Scottish” or even “British and Scottish” – it’s putting British ABOVE Scottish.
If your answer to the question “Should Scotland be an independent country” is no, then how can you possibly spin that as not Anti-Scottish at its very core?
O/T, apologies.
After months of procrastination, I’ve finally started a blog to collect together the references to the hard stats and boring numbers all in one place and present them dispassionately (mostly), as a reference tool or as a place to send those undecided voters that want to see the original numbers before they’ll be swayed. It will hopefully be of use for both online and doorstop campaigning.
link to scienceofindependence.wordpress.com
End of shameless self-promotion 😉
Taranaich, that was a very fine post. I wholeheartedly agree with you.
That’s good, clear, handy reference material Juan Bonnets
link to scienceofindependence.wordpress.com
I would not be the least bit suprised if the next Labour back of the fag packet policy was Independence for Scotland.
If I am elected Prime Minister next year, or even if i’m not elected Prime Minister, I promise to buy everyone in Scotland a beer.
There is no lie in my silly statement, and it won’t cost me a single beer.
If I stated that I would buy everyone in Scotland a beer next year, it could cost me a few quid! 🙂
Complaint duly submitted , awaiting a reply from ASA:
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Taranaich
When even the opposition says Scotland can thrive as an independent country the following additional phrase “should Scotland be an independent country” seems nonsensical to me.
I guess these are the steady steps we must go through. I see Nicola Sturgeon is framing some of her answers along these lines. This must be the right approach I guess – steady, positive stuff. I wish I had her patience.
People are still falling for the incessant unrelenting anti-Independence lies…but, have talked to some fab folk not aware of the alternative to the msm and bbc, now they are going to th rally and looking at WOS…getting there but blimey, the myths are still around. The ‘no’ lot have blotted their copybook and they know it. Looking forward to the rally, YES to an Independent forward looking Scotland!
Sorry I won’t be there tomorrow because of business commitments here in Frankfurt but I’ll be plugging in to the blogs as often as possible to keep up with the latest info.
Have a great time and come home safely.
I’ve been steadily brainwashi…. informing all my German / Austrian mates bout the referendum and Indy and I’m glad to inform you all that they’re all on our side.
“Germans for Independence” go for it! (Hau rein, Jungs)
Does it cost BT more if you click their FB sponsored links?
My mouse finger is twitching…
@Midgehunter:
I’m making sure all my EU pals are registered to vote, they’re all Yesses. 🙂
I think Labour have changed their policy on the bedroom tax because the polls show they are losing Scotland. As SS said on an earlier post, they might win Westminster with 44 seats in 2015 but if they lose their Scottish MP’s they lose Westminster. And according to that UN rep last week Scotland is disproportionately affected by the bedroom tax.
I think David Cameron in the next couple of months will declare that there will be no further powers in the event of a no vote. He’s going to have to to scupper Labours plans.
Pretty galling that we’re really just props to their political games – they genuinely don’t care about us at all. And why am I not surprised!
really good to see you are still following our journey J R Tomlin.
I’ll give you a toast in the Albannach tomorrow. You surely are here in spirit!
Thanks again, folks!
@Murray: I guess these are the steady steps we must go through. I see Nicola Sturgeon is framing some of her answers along these lines. This must be the right approach I guess – steady, positive stuff. I wish I had her patience.
Nicola and other politicians have to be political, and must frame it all in steady, positive tones. But we don’t. I’m not saying people should be severe, just that people who are severe have, I think, entirely just cause.
One in five children in Scotland is born into poverty. Eight of the twenty councils which have exploding rent arrears on account of the Bedroom Tax are in Scotland. Scotland is one of the worst places for income inequality in the whole of the UK, just after Greater London itself. It’s one of the top producers in the UK, yet suffers incredible issues with poverty. And every one of those problems can be sourced to Westminster parties.
I think using language like “anti-Scottish” to describe people who, actively or inactively, perpetuate this problem is almost kind in its understatement. This system is not working for the Scottish people: supporting it is arguing for a system that is harming hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Scottish people. If you support federalism, then you’re effectively saying the Tories & UKIP are a temporary problem, and placing hope in Labour and the Liberal Democrats that is entirely unwarranted.
Independence supporters brave the fire to get their loved ones out alive: sure, they may get burned, they may not save them, and they may not make it themselves, but they have to try. Federalists are watching by the sidelines, hoping the fire will go out before it gets too bad, or that the firemen from the station two hundred miles away will get here in a few minutes.
@Juan: After months of procrastination, I’ve finally started a blog to collect together the references to the hard stats and boring numbers all in one place and present them dispassionately (mostly), as a reference tool or as a place to send those undecided voters that want to see the original numbers before they’ll be swayed. It will hopefully be of use for both online and doorstop campaigning.
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, Juan, and much needed! And good to see another new Indy blogger, too.
@Juan – look forward to your blog developing. It might be better to limit to a handful of entries, though, concentrating on individual aspects. Each entry would then become a very useful resource to point people to, as an information resource.
A suggested topic for a future issue would be the political structure of the UK, demonstrating how ridiculously primitive it is compared to most nations.
Well, well, well ! Another blatant , bare-faced lie from project fear, It really is about time this was brought to the attention of the general public. As the media won’t give it any coverage whatsoever, would it be possible for all their lies and dirty tactics to be put together and exposed in one stunning short video, and airtime bought on commercial T.V station ? I am no expert on the rules and regulations of this kind of thing, but it seems to me that they get away with anything they want, and nobody except pages like yours , newsnet , or bella say a word. Most of us who follow you already know what they are all about, but the majority of people are getting a one sided diet of this shite, please can you ,or some of the obviously intelligent people who post on here tell me if it is an option , or am i being a bit naive ?