A persuasive case
Posted on
March 05, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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A tall tale
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A 90% majority for independence? Wow! That must be a first. Even the SNP support probably couldn’y achieve that. lol.
There’s some precedent here: The Scottish Prison Officers Union delegates debated ‘Scotland would be better off under the UK’. They returned over 95% against.
If I was Labour I’d be worried and maybe change tactics or something? ‘Cause obviously the scare-mongering message is not getting through to their core voters – quite the reverse in fact. But then, I’m not Labour, and they, sadly for them, still are.
@Major
I do not think Scottish Labour can change tactics. They loathe the SNP too much, and also have most to lose if there is a Yes vote (in terms of their MPs). Mostly, it is down to their hatred of the SNP. This feeling meant they rejected the second question in the referendum. They really have no other tactic(s) they can use now.
A comment over at the Herald hints at another Union going the same way. Whoever is next, won’t be Unison – totally controlled by Labour, seriously to the detriment of its members. Remember when they obstructed their own members seeking equal pay at the behest of Labour, only later having to give in after several private suits succeeded.
NUJ? 😉
Deeper worry for Labour would be any significant loss of TU funding. That would certainly excise them permanently from Scottish politics. What a shame.
O/T, but I’m sure none of you would wish to miss the opportunity of attending this delightful occasion.
link to tinyurl.com
@Vronsky –
Nice one.
Admission £8, but you get a free sickbag.
I am thinking that neither will mention Alex Salmond as an inspiration…
I’d absolutely love to see the NUJ in Scotland back independence, but who knows if it would happen? Isn’t NUJ Scotland something of a daughter entity of the greater NUJ anyway — so your membership is of the NUJ proper? That means NUJ Scotland can’t necessarily back anything if the greater NUJ feels strongly about it, no? (Please correct me if I am wrong; I can’t speak with confidence at all on this front.)
Either way! Someone should lead a Journalists for Independence pressure group. Some people might feel a little uncomfortable about the concept of journalists publicly backing a political thing, but they don’t necessarily need to be political journalists! Anyone who writes in an editorial capacity on theatre, sports, film, local affairs can be involved in the independence debate in the same capacity as any other trade unionist that’s looking out for the future of their country and their field.
@ Connor
I’d actually intended my post as a bit of a sly (and completely unsubtle) dig at our friends in the media. But we are aware of both reasonably balanced journalists as well as one or two outright pro indy. Be interesting to see a journos for indy group appear and would we be surprised at some of its possible members?
Hmmmmmm…………. perhaps balanced is not the right word. 😉
I once ended-up at a party in the Glasgow NUJ office – never have I seen so much gin in such a small space.
@Macart
Nyehhh, nyeh, – nyeh, nyehh, nyeh! Beat you to ‘NUJ?’ over on FB when news broke.
Also remind folk Scottish Firefighters already declared similar last year.
Agree with UNIONISTSON comment.
@Connor and Macart
I vote Lesley Riddoch in charge
@ianbrotherhood
Gin!?!?
The bastards! In pre press we’re only allowed toilet duck or plate developer to get a party started. All this time they’ve had access to proper alcohol. 🙁
@John Lyons
She’d get my vote.
Wark and Magnusson interviewing each other……. just how sycophantic can they get?
No, don’t answer that (not before the watershed anyway). 🙂
Beat me all round Chic, I’m not on FB. 😀
But great minds………
Whilst whole heartedly endorsing the CWU Scotland’s No 2 Branch decision at their AGM to come out in favour in supporting YES for independence, it should be pointed out that there are about 14 CWU branches listed in Scotland on the CWU website. Plus the CWU Scotland No 2 Branch covers postal members in the EH, KY, TS & FK postcode areas.
Stu, fancy setting up a wee crowd funder to send the CWU a case of whisky and about 500,000 Yes leaflets? They are the pro’s at getting a message out 🙂 And I think they definately deserve a prize for showing 90% support.
Happy days 🙂
@Vronsky
Love the caption “Sally Magnusson photograph by Alan Peebles”, except that it’s a photograph of Kirsty Wark. I mean, they’re like peas in a pod – sometimes I just can’t tell them apart. Or is maybe just their “Britishness” shining through.
Slightly O/T
It seems like the BBC has got it wrong again. All day long they have been reporting how the Luxembourg foreign minister has spoken out against Scottish Independence.
Now reports are surfacing about the ministers statement being misrepresented in the BBC article.
This seems to be a recurring problem at the Beeb
link to tinyurl.com
@Gary-
Jackie The Burd just said it again, maybe five minutes ago…
@Gary
“It seems like the BBC has got it wrong again. All day long they have been reporting how the Luxembourg foreign minister has spoken out against Scottish Independence.
Now reports are surfacing about the ministers statement being misrepresented in the BBC article.
This seems to be a recurring problem at the Beeb”
Just watched Reporting Scotland and they seem to have dropped Glen Campbell relaying the “bad news” from Luxembourg. No apologies though, and shamelessly the misrepresentation was, if somewhat briefly, maintained in the evening edition.
@Gary
You should listen to oor Gary’s piece, it is embarrassingly bad.
Newsdrive radio Scotland about 1:42 mins in
link to bbc.co.uk
@Baheid
Its the interview he does with the other Luxembourg guy who seemed to suggest that the foreign ministers statement wasn’t made directly to the BBC, but was made at some conference in the middle of February.
I tried to find it on the web but came up with the link to the site linked to above. It does seem like the Beeb is trawling around Europe for any statement that they can use to put down independence.
We just need to keep looking for these”red herrings”, and get them out there so everyone can see the fishermans tales.
O/T
Watching a piece on C4 news about Golden Dawn, wow!!!, effen mental.
Worth a watch
Great that the posties union voted to back YES for an independent Scotland.
Great that some trade unions are escaping the death grip of the Scottish (British) Labour party. Great that people are waking up to the fact that Labour hasn’t represented workers interests since… Definitely not since Blair.
An independent Scotland, with a proper PR voting system, can bring democracy to people. After independence the SNP will face trouble, split into left/right groupings. But an independent Scotland will see the rise of of other parties. A strong lefty party, maybe SSP or Labour for Independence people, and Murdo Fraser’s ‘not tory’ rightist party, and the Greens. The liberals might even make a comeback after Scotland gets shot of the southern cancer…
From where I’m looking, Scotland has every benefit, incentive, bonanza etc. to become independent. They’d be richer than Finland! Scotland would be mad not to!
Scots have a chance of survival, getting shot of the union garbage. Have a shot at building a nation most voters feel comfortable with. No WMD, social democratic ideals. A small, rich country that minds its own business, doesn’t have any empire delusions nor goes into offense war to pursue those delusions.
Scotland on its own will be a so much better country. The British (English) state is failing, failing badly, and without Scotland’s oil, they’ll fail even more. That’s why they’ll use every trick in the book, also the really ugly and dirty ones, to try to deny Scotland’s independence. The English need Scotland, and are trying to keep her by telling her and her people how too wee, too stupid, too whatever all Scots are. And if you dare to be even slightly nationalist, you’re branded a loony.
Back in the 1800s, 1890s, even 1900s, people who dreamed about Finnish independence were thought of as bit of loonies. But the idea spread, by the 1910s most Finns wanted independence. The Russian revolution offered a once in a lifetime chance. Lenin was too busy with Russia and the revolution so nodded through Finland’s independence. 😀
Every Finn loves our independence and no Finn would ever give it up. We’ve fought four bitter, hard wars for our independence (in living memory, not in the 1200s). Some of my Finnish friends don’t understand why the hell doesn’t Scotland grab her independence if it’s there for the taking, democratically, non-violently… Why the fuck not? Are the Scots stupid or what?
Think we could commission channel 4 to do a programme on bbc Scotland bias regarding independence… Also they could have a look at the whole MSM bullshit unionist propaganda that we are up against daily up here.
@ lumilumi
Thank you for the clarity and conviction of your message and support.
@ Dee
It would be kind of hard for channel 4 to investigate MSM bullshit unionist propaganda, as they are part of it. Perhaps not as “in your face” to the same degree as Auntie, but then you don’t have to be if you are the alternative, independent voice of reason. Can you remember Paxman or Snow ever saying anything positive about Scotland?
@lumilumi
Some of my Finnish friends don’t understand why the hell doesn’t Scotland grab her independence if it’s there for the taking, democratically, non-violently… Why the fuck not? Are the Scots stupid or what?”
You’ve seen Lamont, Davidson and Rennie in action, right? 😀
Seriously, good post lumi and appreciated. 🙂
To be far to Jon Snow:
“I think devolution is the best thing that has happened in our lifetime as far as Scotland is concerned and I don’t really mind whether you call it independence or devo max, it is perfectly obvious the Scots should run their own affairs. Whether they do so as an adjunct of the UK, as part of it or not, it seems to be secondary to the fact they should be allowed to do it.”
Westminster has “worked overtime to try to bring about the independence of Scotland through neglect, he believes. “You cannot run a country of this size the way we run it. Inverness is not the same as Truro, like it or not.”
@ Baheid
You may have missed it a week or so back, but I was wondering who our pal Niko might have a connection with.
Golden Dawn might only form a tiny element of the Greek government, but it help ensure the New Democracy coalition was returned, despite anti-austerity parties receiving many, many more votes. Sound familiar? A large part of the pro-austerity coalition’s success, was due to the massive propaganda campaign against anti-austerity policies. I am not sure if an official audit has been carried out into the sources funding this campaign, but I would not be surprised if there was a foreign bank or two involved. Particularly German.
So, I am not suggesting that Niko works with, or even heads Golden Dawn, but perhaps he is linked with the pro-austerity online campaign. It wouldn’t be the first time a political power sought to influence the politics process, through the use of proxies.
@ Albert Herring
I stand corrected, well partly. It wasn’t really positive support for Scottish independence, was it? And I bet he said it with his usual smugly superior sneer. 😉
True Cameron, but reasonably positive nonetheless. Not sure I agree with your final observation.
@ Albert Herring
I haven’t owned a TV in years, so perhaps my memory has added a few feet and inches. I always thought he has been pretty dismissive of the positive case for independence. Maybe this has changed?
@CameronB
Aye, new someone mentioned them.
As Hitler was basically put into power by the industrialists, media moguls etc. as counter to the left, (who were getting effed with austerity measures of the 20s/30s), wanting the burden shared more evenly. (Sound familiar?)
You bet these thugs are backed big time by the oligarchs, whether German or Greek or both, maybe a mix, l dinna ken.
@CameronB
I’m not aware that he’s said too much other than that he likes Scotland and would be sad to see us go, while recognising our right to choose as quoted above.
However, as a journalist he is head and shoulders (and knees and toes) above anyone in the BBC.
Baheid says: “German or Greek or both, maybe a mix”.
Anyone in particular spring to mind?
@ Albert Herring
You win. 🙂
Maybe Germans marching in with calculators and surveyors note pad!?
Land grab without guns!!?
(not in German hands anyway, the thugs will do that for them)
@ Baheid
The first person I honestly though of when considering German Greeks, was our dear old Phil. I hope the old mucker is cleaning up after our Majesty’s little tummy upset. Nah, that’s done by the string of servants and crafty tax accountants beavering away to keep the Head of State in the fashion to which she has become accustomed.
@lumilumi thanks for that. Are you Finnish? If so might I ask how you have such detailed knowledge of Scottish – for want of a better word – politics?
One of my sons lives in Finland now (Turku) so I feel a bit embarrassed that I know so little of Finnish politics. (love salmiaki though)
Both Kirsty and Sally are fairly angry people to have to deal with in real life, I suspect it is the strain of all that lying they have to do. (Now I think about it, so is Jackie Bird, though that is second hand experience).
As for CWU, with the posties for Yes, shouldn’t be too hard to arrange the delivery of No leaflets alongside Yes leaflets that refute every No leaflet’s point? 😉
@ Craig P
Don’t forget U Kaye.
@Craig P
How do you know that about Wark and Magnusson?
Oh dear, bit of a blow for the jam tomorrow wing of the NO campaign. Check out the comments – if you don’t feel too sullied visiting it – on the main No page under a poll about whether they’d support devo+
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