A new record
So, yeah, this happened:
The new crowdfunding platform we used this year is a curious and arcane beast, and as a result the honest truth is that we’re still not quite 100% certain what the precise final total (including “offsite” donations and a few that squeezed in after the technical deadline) is. But as best as we can make out, including everything, it’s this:
£153,215
And, y’know, good heavens.
We honestly, truly, didn’t expect to come anywhere near last year’s record figure of £140,047 – given the deathly-quiet Scottish political environment and resulting lower site traffic, competition from other appeals and whatnot – so to smash it by more than £12,000 (thanks to a surge of over £1,000 per hour on the last day) has left us struggling for words.
For perspective, the Prime Minister is paid £150,402.
Over 3100 of you put your hands in your pockets, averaging around £50 each, and as far as we can tell there was only one donation of over £1000, unlike certain Unionist groups who regularly trouser five-figure sums from hyper-wealthy dependence fans.
This is true grassroots fundraising, and “Thank you” barely makes a scratch on it.
So rather than flailing around inadequately for words, we’ll try to express it in actions instead. And quite apart from all the normal Wings stuff, one of those is to get our small tokens of gratitude out a bit faster this year.
Anyone who donated through the CharityCheckout fundraiser page doesn’t need to do anything else, but if you contributed by another method (PayPal, bank transfer etc) you’ll have to take one extra step to ensure you get your badges and so on.
Go the Wings Contact page and drop us a line something like this:
PLEASE DO NOT PUT ANYTHING IN THE SUBJECT LINE OTHER THAN “£25 PERK” or “£55 PERK” OR WHATEVER, OR YOUR MESSAGE WILL NOT BE CAUGHT BY OUR EMAIL FILTERS AND YOU MAY NOT GET YOUR PERK.
The six possible perk levels (regardless of the precise amount donated) are £25, £55, £145, £255, £555 and £1000.
The quicker everyone does this the sooner we’ll be able to get the spreadsheet together, order the correct amount of stuff, and send it out, and then you can wear your badges, tout your bags and read your digital copies of the splendid iScot magazine with pride, while basking in the admiration and respect of your peers.
You’ve armed us admirably, folks. All we need to do now is wait for the starting gun.
Magic Stu, there is no appetite for a 2nd independence referendum – Aye Right bring it on.. 🙂
Splendid. 🙂
Quite fantastic. Theres quite a debate going on as to whether or not we should be waiting for a starting gun.
Absolutely unbelievable Stu.
For a one man operation to be able to raise so much says an awful lot about the power of your
pentyping skills. 🙂Everyone who is a regular visitor does so for probably many different reasons but above all the MAIN reason we all come day after day is because we all know we can trust you to blow apart each and every “claim/statement” made by the Britnat media, both print and TV.
What is even more incredible is that as you run the whole Wings “organisation” by yourself you do seem to have an incredible amount of power over the Britnat media. 😉 The level of hatred they all have towards you is unbelievable. Well unbelievable may be the wrong word here … incredible is probably better.
I have never witnessed so much diatribe being spouted by one group of individuals against one man as I witness, almost daily, that is sent against you. The best bit about this is that the MORE you blow their LIES apart the more they hate you the more bullshite they spew the more people see them for what they really are and slowly but surely turn to alternative news sources which means they will eventually end up on here and find out what they have been missing!
Well done Stuart
And there’s probably more to come from tonight’s Wings get together at Glenrothes. Irene King we miss your raffles. If you’re local to Glenrothes come & say hello at the Otters Head. Will be there all evening till we’re thrown out. Don’t be shy- we are quite nice ‘vile cybernats’ you know & we laugh a lot.
With the whole of the UK media tory, led by a staggering corrupt BBC, its going to be an interesting Scots indyref2!
Tbf, BBC in England say hate poor old Jezza Corbyn and in Scotland, BBC says hate Sturgeon and all Scottish democracy.
Have to be fair and balanced all the time;-)
What an absolutely amazing final figure.
I didn’t contribute to this, but support IScot and TSTV.
Its great that apart from Wings there are so many alternative Indy mediums available and hopefully with the revigiuration of the Indy movement, as the song goes “Things can only get better”.
That is truly staggering.
Zoomerland will be going into meltdown.
Worth it. 🙂
Great news amazing amount
Congratulations.
Another suggestion, fundraise by having lunch with the highest bidder. Oops forgot the tories Davidson ended up with a Russian billionaire wannabee. What could go wrong there?
The Common weal approach seems more honest and democratic to me.
Well done to all.
Pity a few more folk could not have chucked in a fiver at a time like this.
As people post or lurk on sites like this, if they genuinely care about independence they should think is this worth £5 or £10 a year.
I say worth a lot more.
Therein lies the answer for the Scottish Press.
People will pay for honest, well researched, linked to sources investigative journalism.
They won’t pay for propaganda, lies, obvious politically biased spin and ‘journalists’ overinflated egotistical salaries.
Folk like Mike Small at Bella and Angela Haggerty at the Sunday Herald will be beelin’ at the amount raised as they could only dream of attaining a similar respect among genuine Yessers and the wider Indy Movement.
There is a howl in the YoonStream today.
They howl because we won’t go away.
They howl because WoS and the Rev we have paid.
🙂
Perks? There were perks?? I thought this was a ‘vanilla’ crowdfunder! Man, if only I’d known, I’d’ve thrown in an extra fiver…
But – going on from what Arbroath1320 said – it may be that at a comparatively ‘vanilla’ time in Scottish politics, that this increase is indeed an indication of that continuous creeping disillusionment with mainstream outlets, that is reaching more and more people during this ‘quite period’…
Regardless – Great job, Man.
Fantastic news!
It just goes to show how important the setting of targets are when fundraising.
The next step – which is probably even more important – is how to specifically target those voters who are open to changing their minds on independence.
If you’re in the right place, at the right time, with the right message, you can change people’s minds.
The Daily Raggard will sue.
Wunnerful, Stu.
Perks! What perks?
How were those of us who donated directly supposed to know what the perks were? All I know, now, is I’ve missed out on a perk by a fiver because I didn’t really know there were going to be perks and what the qualifying donation levels for the perks were.
Well, well – for all the trolling, the cash kept on rolling. For the entire month, they tried as best they could to disrupt the crowd-fundraiser. They must be utterly gutted that their best effort has totally backfired on them.
Very well done, Rev. I see lots and lots and lots of WBBs going everywhere and everywhere and everywhere else. In years to come people will wonder how Murdo Q11 ended up with one stuck up his fundament. They will, tellin’ yae.
(Oh and Trolls – thanks a bunch. YOU MADE THIS HAPPEN just as much as we did. Take a bow).
Hi Neil, I’m sure if you donate that fiver (you can donate at any time btw) and use the contact page as suggested above, Wings will happily sort your perk out.
Cheers fellow Winger.
Sorry for going O/T so early peeps but came acros this from Deidre Brock.
https://twitter.com/DeidreBrock/status/982259593307762688
If she is right, and I have no reason to doubt her, then this idea that HMRC have, in effect, denied the Scottish government £10 Billion should be a HUGE storyline for the Britnat media to cover … shouldn’t it? 😉
The BIG question though is this. With this news that around £10bn has been “withheld” from the Scottish government in the 2016/17 tax year (report dated October 2017) then how does Scottish government get hold of all this withheld money.
Being of a simple mindset I reckon we are looking at around 15 years MINIMUM of these taxes being withheld which would mean the Scottish government has been denied somewhere in the region of £150bn!
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/648326/Disaggregated_tax_and_NICs_receipts_-_methodological_note.pdf
(Oh and Trolls – thanks a bunch. YOU MADE THIS HAPPEN just as much as we did. Take a bow)
Should be interesting to see if they come back now too. Scottish haha Office liggers like Rock aside, he’s on the payroll, log in peak time 8pm, stick to the script, get stuck in…
The rest, CJ? doubt it:D
Well done Stu and my fellow Wingonians. Too many a late night under the duvet with a torch clandestinely reading away and chortlening or adding a wee comment here or there, wouldn’t now what we would do without oor wings. You are as is my fellow wingers, the torch for Scotland . Wee bit emotional !!
Well done all. The only fear I have is, what if the starting gun is sounded just two months before the date of the referendum. There was a huge rush to get the first WBB out in decent time in the late summer of 2014, when ideally we’d have got it out in May or June. It’s probably going to be a short campaign. I’m sure Rev has plans in place though.
Truly fabulous. And can I just use this blog to say thank you to all those who made my journey to Edinburgh so fantasic this morning. Saltires and lion rampants bedecking every bridge across the M8. I feel so uplifted and positive now. Bring it on!
Congratulations Stu!!
Lollysmum: looks like last year’s Wings umbrella perks will be in good use in Glenrothes tonight 😉
See you all later folks
Meant to say Stu I know this guy who works a lot with spreadsheets if you need a wee hand with your formulae.. 😀
I am sure that amount could be donated by one person from the dark side.
But we have many people who have now seen the light.
It has been a very good result, and a great boost for Wings and all of us.
However,coming back to ground we must realise the wealth of the forces against us.They will fund a lot of money by any means to the Unionists. The faceless ones are our real enemy and we need to prepare and plan well.
To this end, I imagine that there may be another Wings funding a short time after Indy is called, so we need to keep that possibility in our heads.
But for today, well done all Wingers we have set a record, let the yoons rage, it is nothing we have not heard before but now
speaking personally, it goes in one ear and out the other.
Good luck with the night out in Glenrothes hope you all have a great time.
Congratulations and thanks to everyone involved and contributing.
Keep up the great work Stu.The thought of Mr Murdo boking on this news is well worth the tenner a month paid.
It shows that if you bring a great product onto the market, customers will support it. Fanfuckin tastic.
Stu I get my perk (nearly) every week (when the bugger isn’t away sunning himself :-)) in the form of Chris’s cartoons.
Great. Well deserved. Still more to come. Massive effort.
The PM gets £2Million in perks. Including use of the £100Million jet. The Hedge fund owners £Billions in tax evasion.
More indiscretions with GERS. Or criminality. Scotland loses £Billions to Westminster mismanagement and misappropriation. Most of the crooks should be in jail. The Barnett Formula devised to take £Billions illegally from Scotland and wasted.
The food poisoning scandal. Makes people sick.
After Independence Stu will be running broadcasting. Everything is possible. Rev Stu’s effort will not be forgotten. A hero.
@Arbroath1320
It wouldn’t be the full £10 bn, just 30% of that, £3.3 billion, or 30% of the total which would make it a little over £4 billion.
I had a very quick look at that paper and it seems a minor difference between cash accounting and accruals and refunds, but I’d need to look longer.
Bear in mind the paper’s been out since October 2017, and Brock isn’t an accountant sort (performing arts).
Well done all means we will get the news that MSM try to keep from us.This is a good read.
https://on.rt.com/92r9
Just received leaflet and questionnaire from Ruth Davidson team, looks like they are using up old leaflets still running Nicola Sturgeon, its always about independence and the enough is enough line.
I was 59 on 1st Nov 2017 1 want to be in dependent by 61 so this autumn please.
Donated last night , all the best from Massachusetts. Thanks for the great work you do Stuart.
yesindyref2 says:
7 April, 2018 at 4:03 pm
@Arbroath1320
It wouldn’t be the full £10 bn, just 30% of that, £3.3 billion, or 30% of the total which would make it a little over £4 billion.
Yes someone put me right about that over on Twitter YIR2.
Even so if it was “only” £4bn, for what I assume was the 2016/2017 tax year, and you take into account all the money we have not received that is rightfully ours since the reopening of our parliament, it would still all mount up to around £50 bn I reckon. NOT a figure to be sniffed at … as they say and unlike the Labour party NONE of this money would be travelling South at any point in the future.
Just a wee bit outside the box thought here. Perhaps when “discussing” independence with doubters/soft noes this figure could be used as an example, one of many, of how Scotland has been short changed by WM since day one! If nothing else it blows a rather large hole in the false claim by Unionists that we’d have £15bn of debt. At least now, before blowing their £15bn away completely, we can let them down gently by telling them their original figure of £15bn is wrong … it’s only £11bn … before telling them that even that figure is wrong cause we’d start day one of independence with NO debt (just ask George Osborne about that one 😉 ! 😀
It is not just the media which sicken me, Scotland is shafted over at council level every day.
My mate just posted this on Facebook…Leonard will be silent on this of course…as will Rennie.
……
“There are now EIGHT councils in Scotland where the SNP are the biggest party but are frozen out of the administration by Unionist parties, half of which involve Labour and the Tories teaming up to do so.
The eight are:
Aberdeen (Lab/Con)
Angus (Con/Lib/Ind)
Argyll & Bute (Con/Lib/Ind)
East Dunbartonshire (Con/Lib)
Falkirk (Con/Lab)
Moray (Con/Ind)
North Lanarkshire (Lab/Con)
West Lothian (Lab/Con)
There are also four where the SNP and Labour have collaborated to keep Tories out.
There are NONE where the SNP have supported the Tories”.
…………
Labour just joined forces with the tories in Falkirk the other day, to oust the minority SNP council.
Utter SCUM.
VOTE LABOUR, GET TORY.
I do the like the Record headline 🙂
…as I am sure they do.
I wasn’t in for this fundraiser, to be honest I’m surprised with all the things happening last year I survived financially through to the start of this earning season (and cashflowed through to end of month at least) but a few orders more than normal for the off-season kept us going. A big one to do now, 40 hours work starting in 5 minutes time.
But with it seems 1 million WBB2’s assured now, I’d be in funds by the time they’ll be put out, and even if it’s off-season and not doing the rounds will keep addresses to send off batches of 6 or 10 or whatever by post, keeping it to less than 1Kg or 2Kg by post, with a range of 152mm height posting boxes for small parcel (must be 160mm max), so will do some sub-distribution myself.
Feedback was that people found them very useful, including the last one about promises made and broken which I gave out in small batches.
@Rev
You could maybe consider free post to those that can’t afford it, who have time but not money. Difficult to avoid spurious or hostile takers maybe, but could be worth it. Or people volunteering for some sub-distribution to help out rogue coder.
A truthful media outlet like WOS will always be supported by the people, unlike the bloated, biased britnat media.
I pay thru pay pal monthly how will this work
@Arbroath1320
Even £3 billion is a large sum, if genuine. Surprised though if nobody else like Richard Murphy hasn’t picked up on it, that does cast some doubt and counsel caution. Wouldn’t be the first time wild claims have been made, we’re all so keen to find things out!
Oh aye I forgot. Over the next 4 months I’ll be asking people how many of the WBB2s they want, ready for when it comes out. They can either get their own or I’ll send them some. Chances are with inertia rules OK, it’ll be the latter 🙂
Tried to contribute but do not wish to use PayPal.
I look at your site every day and am encouraged.
Got to know site by delivering Wee Blue Book during Referendum:-)
Will the author of WoS now get a higher er, profile, teamGB msm wise?
Toryboy stench from The Graun gets more toxic by the day, or seriously weirder by the day, our UKOK hackdom imperial masters, rather.
https://archive.is/4R4Hm
Global economy The Observer
Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030
World leaders urged to act as anger over inequality reaches a ‘tipping point’
The actor Michael Sheen, who has opted to scale back his Hollywood career to campaign against high-interest credit providers, was among those supporting the calls.
The hope is to create pressure for global action when leaders of the G20 group of nations gather for a summit in Buenos Aires in November. ”
Etc.
Nary a peep from progressive liberal The Graun, about how they help keep the whole red and blue toryboy save the rich show rolling along nicely.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/salmondbell.jpg
Its not their bare faced lies and insult, its their sneering hypocrisy that really sticks in the throat.
I don’t know what it is, but I genuinely have a good feeling about the outcome of the next vote.
I went to the toilet that bleach had been put down.
Will it be reported in the Scottish media a SNP person tried to kill using a poisonous gas.
“Germs” being missed out.
A magnificent 150 grand plus, Stu, and every penny a reflection of the heartfelt support you have in the Independence movement. May you never doubt that we are right behind you 100% – and all the way.
And to all Wingers, but especially to the 3000, congratulations for such an amazing fund-raiser. Outstanding!
Word of caution on the new WBB and the distribution.
I was given 20 copies which I made good use of, then given another 15 copies the day before the referendum. I told them I had no way of getting rid of them so late. They didn’t fucking care. In the end I had about 5 copies left.
So my question is how many copies were wasted?
Walking round to the Wingers night out in Glenrothes soon and looking forward to bumping into a few known faces then meeting some new faces to go with their wingers names. 🙂
Might take Hamish!
OT – Faslane
Found this from Aug 2014 by the redoutable Chalmers and RUSI again, relocating Trident, worth a read. There’s already some saying it couldn’t be done, blah blah crap. Well, it can and not for much cost either, maybe £4 billion over a decade or so, which I think could be less if some work has been done meantime (like clearing out Devonport to allow redevelopment).
https://rusi.org/sites/default/files/201408_op_relocation_relocation_relocation.pdf
Chalmers improved greatly during the Ref with his understanding of the situation of Scotland, but even in that paper is still a bit UK-centric, which is a mistake in the creation of such a paper, but it’s pretty good all the same.
@Shinty: judging by my experience, I’d say none were “wasted” – people were still asking for them AFTER the vote. I had trouble hanging onto one for me to read – I never had time before!
Not really my bag by the way, even though I live on the Clyde and have done most of my life, but from that Trident relocation report:
“It is difficult to assess how long it would take to construct a replacement for Coulport. While it initially only took about four years to build, construction standards and processes are far more rigorous and safety-conscious today. ”
I daresay they improved standards at Coulport since then, didn’t they?
This tweet from Deirdre Brock could be a GERS game changer
Cash missing from GERS? This is interesting, from HMRC’s tax disaggregation methodology paper –
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/648326/Disaggregated_tax_and_NICs_receipts_-_methodological_note.pdf … –
it says GERS only counts one strand of VAT which would mean that 30% of Scotland’s VAT doesn’t appear in GERS.
I think VAT in Scotland is about £10bnAT
It’s such a pleasure to donate knowing what it’s for and knowing your output puts every journalist in shade.
Here’s to a future decided by us, designed by us and built by us.
I’m getting to like that Chalmers guy more, he even quotes from Ainslie (CND) from 2012 like “Indeed, there are indications that the MoD waived some safety requirements
at Coulport in the 1970s to allow its continued operation.”
Decided to have my tea before getting down to work 🙂
Happy drinking y’all in Glenrothes! Have one for me. Many years since I’ve had a pint in Glenrothes, decades.
yesindyref2 says:
Here is another thing re Coulport and Faslane. Which I think is shocking, Babcock who runs these facilities were complaining about their insurance cover costs for a nuclear accident.
The Tories allowed them to lower their liability to a mere £100,000 public liability. So in the case of a nuclear accident on whatever scale, that would be all they would pay.
The rest would have to be met locally costing millions, with depending on the scale of it maybe many millions. Never seen anything that would suggest Westminster would pay the balance of costs.
With possible huge number of deaths in the population. Yet only £100,000 pounds, unreal.
I posted the link a number of times, but no one was interested.
Still on the net I think or I may still have it somewhere.
No one seems to be concerned about this, I certainly am.
Sarah – Good to know I was the only one left with unused copies.
Anyone wanting a copy after the vote kind of defeats the purpose, don’t you think.
They were explicitly to be distributed to NO’s and soft No’s in time for them to make an informed decision.
Well done!! Keep up the good work!
@Les Wilson
Lenny Hartley will love this one from that report: “The Firth of Clyde was originally chosen on the basis of this proximity to deep water, along with the opportunities to evade adversary submarines around the Isle of Arran and Mull of Kintyre. ”
Playing peek-a-boo off Lochranza, Whiting Bay and Carradale 🙂
Hammond (former Defence Secretary) claimed (Westminster committee session) that it would take 3 yrs to move Trident. Cost £27Billion. Less than threes years of payment. Claimed Scotland would have to pay it. Don’t think so. 6 contaminated, rotting hulks lying at Rosyth. They don’t know what to do with?
Then he changed it to £40Billion? Over years. Basically doesn’t have a clue. A liar. With Brexit it will be going anyway. One bonus? US will move it to Europe. It is supposed to protect Europe. Dumped in Scotland 1960’s by McMillian. The US did not want it in Britain, Kennedy. McMillian wanted it at Fort William. The US wanted it at Faslane. Beside one of Scotland’s largest city. Lying psycho bastards. Suez Canel debacle. The were reports McMillian was mentally ill. Same Harold Wilson. He resigned suddenly. M15 had something on him. They were bugging him. Or he was paranoid.
It has been known for years that VAT was probably wrong. It is estimated. NI (pop 1.8million?) was calculated along with Scotland. Under estimated.
Excellent news and money well spent. Surely Indyref2 will be announced in the autumn once the full Brexit shambles is revealed. If you need more then, just ask.
Can I also put a plea in for Wings followers to subscribe to the iScot Magazine, it’s not expensive, a good read and handy to drop off at various places once you have read it. Excellent contributors, Blaze, Fiona Grahame, Wee Ginger Dug, Major Bloodnock amongst others, and also interesting articles on non political subjects as well. Beautifully produced and bound to be picked up if left in a waiting room.
We need to support as much of the Yes media as possible to counteract the MSM.
I wish the SNP would do similar PPB’s like the last one. They should include JK Rowling quote ,followed by the Minister telling the SNP in the Commons that Scotland would be treated just like an English shire.
We have to start playing hard and snappy with all means of getting the message out. We are just servants and it’s time the people realised that fact.
heedtracker (9th February 2017 – “A division of principles”):
“Rock, whatever you’re up to on WoS, listen up, the author of Wings over Scotland is not the messiah and he’s not going to win ref 2.”
Rock (9th February 2017 – “A division of principles”):
“If anyone can tip the balance in favour of winning, it is this site and its author.”
Quiet night, and then the pub bore shows up.
yesindyref2 says:
7 April, 2018 at 4:38 pm
@Arbroath1320
Even £3 billion is a large sum, if genuine. Surprised though if nobody else like Richard Murphy hasn’t picked up on it, that does cast some doubt and counsel caution. Wouldn’t be the first time wild claims have been made, we’re all so keen to find things out!
Good point YIR2. So I guess there is only one way to find pout what Richard Murphy thinks about this report I guess 😉
Does anyone think that when Scotland becomes independent anywhere in England will let trident be based locally.
Dream on,it will never happen!
They will probably inflict it on the Welsh till they get their act together and declare independence from England.
People are queuing up to live in a radioactive wasteland.
Not O/T since the thread is about funding.
Story in the Guardian on-line about plans for a new political party to break the two-part stranglehold on Westminster.
Apparently planning has been going on for a year…in secret – good start.
Has funding of £50 million.
Greetings frae Glenrothes!
Hanging out with cool people.
Will check back in aboot midnight…
Scotland.
X.
Read someone Daily Hail, although I know it’s no good for my blood pressure.
Still banging on the get our Scottish Health Minister to resign?
I presume its because our NHS consistently out performs their counterparts
In Tory England, Labour Wales and D.U.M. In N Ireland.
They forgot to mention that part though.
The best though came form one of their female propagandists
It seems that a Tory/ Labour alliance council in Scotland, although
They remain nameless, now charge more to park all day than the
Cost of a £30 parking ticket?
You will love this; the reason that she got a parking ticket
Is down to outxFirdy Minister not being a driver, and therefore
Not able to understand the frustrations of wealthy Tory extremist posing
As journalists while Driving expensive cars???
Also unhappy about wealthier members of Scottish society
Having to pay £1.80 extra per week to help those on Tory Zero hours
Contracts and those workers having to use food banks.
Long live Scotland, SNP, Wings, Truth and Justice!
Bob Mack, Re pp broadcasts.
I agree Bob. Time to properly name and show the error of those celebrity donors, who donated their own mainstream celebrity influence and were themselves obviously lied to- or like the electorate in general, they underestimate how nasty the Tories actually are.
indy ref2 -any truth that the new construction yard at Hunterston on the Clyde will be used to decommission nuclear subs? Next to waste disposal site?
STU PENDOUS STU PENDOUS Well done everyone ,
Forward to INDEPENDENCE and a fair , balanced ,empathetic and sympathetic beautiful country
We shall overcome the tRuthless barstewards
Great news about the fundraiser.
Good news about NHS Tayside Chairman and Chief Executive getting the boot.
Now, just waiting for Shona Robison’s resignation or sacking as Health Secretary.
@Colin A –
I honestly didn’t know there was any call for Shona Robison to quit or be sacked.
Can you please explain what you’re on about?
WBB1 got us from 25% to 45%,
how do we target the 6% we need,
why knock on 100 doors when 40/45 are going to vote Yes anyway,40/45 are various levels of yoon so no point,
if you knew who the crucial 10/20 were that might be open to persuasion you could adjust/fine tune your message and save time and resources,
concentrate on the crucial 10% not the 90% that are inflexible.
Exciting times ahead for UKEngland presumably, Scotland not given a mention. Wonder what a rich dude wants from a new party for his grass roots £50 million starter? New party name, SLabatory, TorLaboDem, LaLitory.
https://archive.is/bOtvu
Politics The Observer
New party gets £50m backing to ‘break mould’ of UK politics
Plans secretly made by donors since 2016 for a new political party drawing from both left and right
Franks could not be reached for comment, but the Observer understands up to £50m is available and that the group has consulted political experts around the world in an attempt to create a credible plan to challenge the existing parties.
It is believed the new movement is not trying to convince MPs to defect as part of its launch. However, there are plans to reach out to MPs deemed to meet its non-partisan approach.”
A good night in Glenrothes. More money will be coming for Wings. Dont spend it on Cairnstoon, he’ll just use it for more holidays
Can only listen to about 30 seconds of our (English) “National News” bulletins from Sky and BBC on their accounts of the Russian Poisoning.
Absolutely sole destroying hearing their version of events and it has “English Establishment” Bullshit wrote all over it.
And their English audience fall for it hook, line and sinker.
@Colin Alexander –
I raised a question regarding your comment at 10.02.
Please have the common decency to respond.
Regarding who else will vote YES in IndyRef2. I think big businesses in Scotland who want Single Market access will get behind us.
Also Universities, and many Farmers and Fishermen who seek the security of regular subsidies. And EU citizens who qualify to vote will get right behind IndyRef2.
Hoping Nicola calls it for Spring/Autumn 2019, I think we will finish with about 60% of the vote.
Well done to everyone who contributed, it’s definitely the best money spent this year.
I always feel I’m on a rollercoaster of emotions with regards to our country’s independence. On here I’m always on a high then my wife tells me about a conversation she’s had with a supposed intelligent pal whose level of knowledge is so poor I hit a low again. What is it with people in our country, immutably content doesn’t come close to describing it.
However if the money raised helps to convert the empty heads that surround us then it’s money well spent.
Hope all the wingers in Fife had a great night, wish I could have been there.
Need to book a big venue for Independence night!!!!
Great news been away for a bit got In early dropped in a bit, on the nerve agent reading Craig Murray its suspect that Russia did it at gov level, also I think the FM said they took what they were told by WM as fact but if they were lying the FM is in the clear as WM was telling every body and a lot of diplomats were expelled so when Ruth says you got it wrong she is also saying the US and Europe got it wrong. Is it going to be a dull year NFL. Good on you Stu.
Well done Rev. You’re in our corner and we trust you. That’s what the British Nationalists can’t get their heads around.
They don’t understand or believe in trust. For them everybody is in it for themselves.
Your a freak and everybody hates freaks.
More The Graun, politics nerds?
http://archive.is/7iZnp
Commonwealth of Nations Opinion
Britain sees the Commonwealth as its trading empire. It is sadly deluded
Ian Jack
Nearly every Commonwealth country opposed Brexit. Leavers are wrong to hope old imperial patterns will replace EU trade
Comments include
graemeyh 13h ago
I spent several weeks in Australia over the winter. Every single person I met thought brexit mad and that the Brits had lost their common sense – only in stronger terms than that. Although there is affection (and gentle rivalry) for UK, the sense I got was of a modern, confident “Pacific rim” country. I picked up little interest in the commonwealth and all the brexit crap.
GlobalViewpoint 12h ago
Having lived in Canada I can assure you the same is true there, Brexiters are living in a 19th Century dreamworld.”
They’re not wrong, never heard any fellow Commonwealth subject of Brenda’s over there saying anything less.
Scotland, threatened with getting kicked out of the EU for good, 2014, unless we kept this union with our friends in the south.
2019, we’re gone.
Ian Brotherhood
Sorry Ian, I wasn’t online. It’s regarding NHS Tayside, see the Herald. They were cooking the books.
Ms Robison eventually told the big chiefs to go. The Board Chairman resigned, the Chief Exec was sacked.
I’ve got my own beef with Ms Robison as Health Secretary; I can’t go into details now.
Ah well Cactus- we were both wrong. 3,100 donors by 9.00a.m. this morning. Brilliant result.
Hope the Glenrothes night out is proving to be just as fantastic.
This crowdfunder is a thermostat for independence. This puts to bed the unionist lie “no appetite for independence ” .girfuy you lying beeb and unionist msm fake news scum.
I’ve got my own beef with Ms Robison as Health Secretary; I can’t go into details now.
So why bring your beefs into the future of Scotland Coco?
If you can get what you want, Robinson out, will it satisfy your desire for revenge, for whatever it is you want revenge for?
Takes all sorts.
Then Ms Robison did exactly what she should have done as Health Secretary.
She wasn’t cooking the books and when she found out who were she got rid of them.
Well done her for taking action when action is needed.
Compare Ms Robison’s action with Theresa May’s inaction with the utter fool that is the Foreign Secretary Boris Jonhson and his blustering and bummbling.
There’s a big difference, Ms Robison did not know of NHS Tayside ineptness until there was evidence of it and she acted swiftly. Whereas everybody knows what a buffon Johnson is YET MAY DOES NOTHING.
That is poor governance by Westminster and once again the superiority of SNP governacne is a beacon as to how a country should be governed.
You get rid of the failures and reward the successes!
Before we all plunge into our favourite harrumphs (too late, I know) I’d just like to say bravo, bravo and bravo again to all those who contributed.
I turn the light off tonight knowing that the acid tongued, green pen merchant’s and their supporting acts will be quite besides themselves……mmmmm, it’s better than having a hot water bottle to cuddle in to. Good night guys.
Hey Meg ~
Scotland knows best.
Fuckin’ love ma country.
It’s yours too.
Glenrothes.
X.
Thepnr
“She didn’t know”: ignorance is no excuse. When you’re top boss, it’s your job to know what your staff are doing.
Ms Robison’s failures are letting it – and other bad things happen in the NHS – without taking action, because of ignorance due to lack of diligence or doing nothing about it when informed of it, until it became untenable due to political and media pressure.
If/ when Ms Robison goes, I don’t see that as a negative thing for the SNP or Scot Govt; it would be a positive thing. A stark contrast to the position you highlight, where incompetent UK ministers are allowed to keep their position.
Yes*
Even the trolls are inept at their trolling Hahahahaha.
Wankers.
Heedtracker
I want Scotland to be the best it can be. A country where human rights are respected and protected, whether your rich or poor and our public services, especially the NHS, are the best possible.
That’s some of the reasons why I think independence is the better option for Scotland and why Ms Robison should leave the Health Secretary role.
To bring it back on topic: I sincerely hope the money raised for WoS will help us to obtain independence.
So, a big hooray for the Wings fundraiser.
@Colin A –
If you ‘can’t go into the details’ then you might be wiser to avoid bringing the subject up at all.
Do you understand the difference between ‘slander’ and ‘libel’ in Scots Law? If not, I suggest you start doing some homework.
I have allways found it amazing how anyone supporting the labour party can sit back and let them join a coalition with the tories.
There is such a situation in my locality, the labour party just pipped the SNP, the tories as usual where left behind in the stalls, the SNP offered to work with the local labour party, but the labour party chose to unite with the tories, so now we have a tory sitting on the throne and one other plonker that i have never heard of is on the council.
Its incredible that the tories can get next to no votes, yet the labour party can give two tories a seat on the council to have a say on how the district is run.
They would rather have a union with the tories than work with the SNP for the good of the district, the local heed yin of the labour party is allways replying to disheartened people in the local paper, I am thinking of having a collection to get him a tin of brasso, cause he must need a lot for that thing he’s got between his heed and the rest o his miserable body.
A big hooray.
Phaaarrrpppp!! LOL
Anyone who wants Robison to leave the health post wishes to hand the Unionists a scalp. So no scalps since she is doing a first class job.
Goodnight sweet Prince you are a kiss from being a frog!
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/irish-shipping-bypass-british-ports-140258098.html
Hands up if you saw this one coming – Irish shipping is planning to bypass British ports completely and ship direct to Zeebrugge and Santander . They will introduce mega ships this summer which can take 1,500 lorries to the EU ports and will no longer need to drive across Britain en route to save on customs delays.
Good for them!
Well done Stuart.And to all who contribute to this wonderful antedote to pathetic,dishonest and immoral British values and culture.
Great night in Glenrothes! Well done Wings and all the Wingers who contributed to a feast of an evening.
Meeting up with Wingers is the best! I see Cactus is still enjoying himself.
What a fantastic total eventually reached. Everyone should be proud! Wings is the best blog site, so you have great support! Keep doing what you’re doing, Stu.
Staggering aboot Glenrothes.
Where ahm aye?
Meeting cool people.
Cheers for joining us Craig & all…
Love Scotland.
X.
Ah’ve just been chinned for playing my guitar too loud in the hotel lobby…
Retiring to me room.
What the fuck…?
X.
Coco and Bill not Ben..and wee crackerjack-ass…pretendy indy supporters yet CONSTANTLY berating the SNP on here.
Get fucked ya roasters.
“I have a beef with the Health Secretary, so she should quit”
Well coco the fucking clown….i have a fucking issue with YOU, will YOU take follow your own logic and fuck off from Wings ?
Or are you a hypocrite ?
Of course you are.
ps a big Wings congratulations all round.
Rev Stu… cheers mate.
People love Scotland.
We do.
Shona Robison
Lovely person, excellent health minister, straight arrow and the workers respect her…that’s kinda important in a huge job like that
None of the above can be said of The English health minister whose record is one of continuous dissatisfaction, strikes and massive recorded levels of needless deaths
Although to be fair on Jeremy Hunt he has increased the number of doctors moving from England to Scotland…..so that’s a good thing eh
Watching John Williams & company on a guest TV…
He good.
Wings rules foreva.
A new record has been set.
Guitario.
Wings readers restore hope to Scotland.
Relight the candle…
We do.
Another £205 raised at Wingers night out in Otters Head in Glenrothes on its way this week for the fundraiser. Great night for all concerned and special thanks to all.
Another £205 raised at Wingers night out in Otters Head in Glenrothes on its way this week for the fundraiser. Great night for all concerned and special thanks to all.
CACTUS, you were meant to play your guitar in the pub.
Ehm still buzzing!!!!
Chasanderson200 @ 2.42
And a big thanks to you sir,for organising the evening!
You did good..
Can you also pass on my thanks to the Landlord and Bartenders from the Otters Head Glenrothes.
Fantastic venue,great hospitality towards us Wingers and the most pleasant service!
A great night,and great company.
Liz G,
Already have, and will buy them a beer tomorrow.
WOW what a great time I had, I was exhausted when we finished but I am still buzzing!!!!! No sleep tonight methinks.
@ chasanderson200
Thanks to you for organizing the event, and to the staff at the Otter’s Head who were so friendly and helpful.
WOS new record exposes the Meeja as the pinnacle of “Sundry pishflappery” – thanks and respect to the Thingy laddie for this most excellent and truthful adjective – notional pints and drams have been ordered in your name 😉
Just in 10mins thanks Chas for your organization of the Wings Nite oot Glenrothes Great nite, met new an auld faces an I got to spend the rest of the nite with two lovely Quine’s
Ronnie, Glad to see you and the lassies got back ok.
Great meeting new and old faces. Thanks, Chas.
Glad to hear the Glenrothes night out went so well.
Latest from the Sunday Herald on the Growth Commission:
Revealed: Nicola Sturgeon’s SNP Growth Commission looks to New Zealand for fresh economic case for independence.
AN SNP commission has overhauled the party’s economic case for an independent Scotland, the Sunday Herald can reveal.
The SNP has long focused on Norway and Ireland as blueprints for an independent Scotland, but the eagerly-awaited Growth Commission takes New Zealand as a model for cutting the deficit through economic growth and sound governance.
In the wake of the loss of the independence referendum, party insiders admitted the economic argument had been faulty and weak and the new Commission is an attempted reboot.
It is understood that David Skilling, a former adviser to the New Zealand Government who has worked for management consultancy McKinsey, has been an important figure for the Commission.
Paul Hutcheon: Yes movement is heading for a rift on the economics of independence
However, the move could cause a rift in the Yes movement. New Zealand is a market-based economy and left-wing supporters of independence yesterday sounded a note of caution.
Patrick Harvie, the co-convener of the Scottish Greens, said: “Growth on its own is not the metric by which we should judge success.”
Voters are widely believed to have rejected independence at the 2014 referendum over fears about the economic case for leaving the UK.
Labour, the Tories and the Liberal Democrats ruled out the Scottish Government’s currency union proposal and a $110 a barrel oil price, on which the economic case was largely based, was also deemed to be hugely optimistic.
Since the referendum, oil prices have collapsed – although partially recovering to around $63 a barrel – and the Scottish Government’s statistics revealed a deficit of over £13 billion in 2016/17, which amounted to 8.3 per cent of GDP, triple the UK figure.
In September 2016, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon announced the creation of a Growth Commission chaired by Andrew Wilson, a former SNP MSP, who is a founding partner of an Edinburgh-based communications and lobbying firm, Charlotte Street Partners.
The Commission, which has been tight-lipped about its work, was tasked with producing a fresh economic prospectus for an independent Scotland. The report has been completed and a communications strategy is being finalised.
The Sunday Herald understands the delayed report has three major strands: growth, public finances, and monetary and regulatory policy. A separate Scottish currency has been considered by the Commission.
The report is believed to focus on fixing the “three Ps” – productivity, participation and population growth – and the Commission has honed in on around a dozen small advanced economies in a bid to learn lessons for an independent Scotland.
In previous years, independence supporters claimed that Scotland could be like oil-rich Norway, but with prices plummeting the Nordic country is no longer judged to be the most favourable case study.
Similarly, former First Minister Alex Salmond used to laud tax-cutting Ireland, but with UK Corporation Tax levels at historically low levels, the so-called Celtic Tiger model is considered to be outdated.
It is understood the Commission believes New Zealand, which has mostly enjoyed positive growth rates for around 25 years, is a better model. Finland has also been looked on positively.
According to official figures, economic growth in New Zealand has regularly exceeded three per cent since 2011, of which immigration is said to have been an important factor.
Scotland, by contrast, has witnessed sluggish growth in recent years, and the Scottish Fiscal Commission forecasts expansion of less than one per cent a year until 2022.
The Commission has drawn on advice from Skilling, who is the founding director of Singapore-based economic advisory firm Landfall Strategy Group.
According to his biography, he recently served as a senior advisor to the McKinsey Centre for Government and to the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and Trade in New Zealand.
Until 2003 he was a “principal advisor” at the New Zealand Treasury where he worked “primarily on economic growth issues”. He has also written extensively on smaller countries.
In a co-authored article on Brexit last year, he wrote: “Independence would allow Scotland to develop policies that are more in line with other successful small economies – not least by retaining EU membership. As Scotland confronts the strategic challenges of Brexit, it will also have an opportunity to develop policies that are better suited to it.”
In a separate co-written piece Skilling addressed currency and independence: “Scotland does not need to settle that question now: an independent Scotland could easily retain the pound, at least at first. In the meantime, the country should set up a monetary authority, which in the run-up to independence would allow for the development of a group of technocrats who could learn about the technical aspects of managing a currency.”
He added: “They should also look closely at historical episodes of new currencies, such as that of independent Singapore in the mid-1960s, in order to better understand the practicalities of launching a new currency.”
In January, Sturgeon was appointed by former New York mayor Michael Bloomberg to serve on a global health taskforce, a body that includes former New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark. However, although economic growth has been strong in New Zealand, the country’s Labour Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern recently adopted a sceptical tone.
“Has it [the market] failed our people in recent times? Yes. How can you claim you’ve been successful when you have growth roughly three per cent, but you’ve got the worst homelessness in the developed world?” she said.
Harvie said his party rejected any economic theory based on a “growth fetish”, adding: “The evidence shows that for developed countries growth isn’t the thing that increases the well-being of people. Even in this country there have been times when we have had strong growth but rising inequality.”
Colin Fox, the Scottish Socialist Party co-spokesperson who sat on the board of Yes Scotland, said: “The Growth Commission was supposed to repair the SNP’s hopelessly inadequate economic case that cost us the referendum. It now looks like the Commission is backing a neo-liberal economic model at a time when neo-liberalism is on the way out. Norway is a better progressive example than New Zealand, which has had Blairite Labour governments that do not challenge the economic model. New Zealand offers us nothing new.”
An SNP spokesperson said: “We don’t have any comment on this.”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16144586.revealed-nicola-sturgeons-snp-growth-commission-looks-to-new-zealand-for-fresh-economic-case-for-independence/?ref=mr&lp=1
My opinion is that the number of Scots committed to Indy is significantly greater than the number committed to the Union. My guess would be 40-45% pro Indy, 30-35% committed BritNats.
It’s the ones in the middle who aren’t strongly committed either way that we need to persuade away from the false security many saw in 2014 with the UK.
Paul Hutcheon: Yes movement is heading for a rift on the economics of independence.
Pity Paul Hutcheon doesn’t even do basic research in his latest hatchet job.
Oil Price is nearer $70 now $68 rather than the $63 he quotes.
Also why has Sunday Herald not covered or investigated Deidre Brock’s revalations:
Cash missing from GERS? This is interesting, from HMRC’s tax disaggregation methodology paper –
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/648326/Disaggregated_tax_and_NICs_receipts_-_methodological_note.pdf …
it says GERS only counts one strand of VAT which would mean that 30% of Scotland’s VAT doesn’t appear in GERS. I think VAT in Scotland is about £10bn a year
@galamcennalath
Thats my experience too from indyref 1 – the group in the middle were targeted ruthlessly with fear & negativity last time, it worked.
On the growth commission & economic models, NZ, RoI, Norway – it doesn’t matter too much – what is important is to show that there are multiple options available – Independence gives you power & choice
Crackerjack
Are folk still paying any attention to anything in the Herald? It hates all things SNP/Ind/Yes.
Colin should be strengthening the narrative of why we are not like Norway under Westminster rule.
Interestingly if you read the history of Norwegian independence, it’s Union with Sweden was very like Scot/Eng, in terms of how the Swedes considered Norway.
he difference was the Norwegians didn’t put up with it.
Crackerjack:
Thanks for the post, I don’t like to get my hands dirty on the Sunday Herald any more!
I may be reading far too much into this, but if the SNP Growth Commission are now advocating NZ as a model for an Indy Scotish economy, then it looks like the SNP commitment to keeping Scotland in the EU/EEA is wavering.
And if the commitment to EU membership for Scotland (or at the very least EEA) is in doubt, what is the rationale for our Indyref2? Is this a sign that the SNP have already privately jettisoned the idea of holding it before March 2019??
The New Zealand economy has been ranked first in the world for Social Progression, which covers such areas as Basic Human Needs, Foundations of Wellbeing, and the level of Opportunity available to its citizens.
`Colin Fox` jeezo geis a break,ah wouldnae trust that thing to tell me the right time,
definition of `agent provocateur`
`a person who intentionally encourages people to do something illegal so that they can be caught`,
one of the UK State/Intelligence Services most productive tactics.
Rev,
If the next one comes out say four weeks before the next indyref might I suggest the final page be left for readers to fill out under the title “The Vow 2”?
We know there’ll be another vow a few days before the vote. . He he.
Quite an interesting Sunday Herald today, in a kind of Devol’s Advocate sort of way. Maybe that’s its game and it still is pro-Indy.
There again …
… still, good to see a focus already on the Growth Commission report, which might be nothing like the SH “insider” info. Who knows!
Independence supporters don’t need to be SNP supporters; they can NOT support the UK political party called the SNP but, support independence for Scotland.
Read what Mhairi Black says if you won’t listen to me: the Unionists say:
indy = SNP, SNP= indy.
Just like too many on here.
That turns an indyref into a: do I support the SNP? referendum.
Do I like Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon? referendum.
The majority DON’T vote SNP. The most the SNP have EVER got is 50%.
So, if people like you insist: to support independence you must support the SNP, that’s mince.
It is damaging the independence campaign. It is Unionist speak to say SNP = indy.
I believe it’s healthy to be able to criticise the SNP and Scot Govt while supporting indy.
Because independent Scotland is for everyone, not just SNP supporters.
The phrase ‘cut the deficit’ reveals a deep misunderstanding of macroeconomics.
Better to balance the economy, not balance the books.
Had the govt money poured into the U.K. economy been dispersed evenly over the past 4 decades, rather than into banks and stocks and shares portfolios IMHO we wouldn’t even be talking about a Scottish independence referendum.
At the aggregate level of a national economy spending=income. It’s not rocket science.
It’s weird how the greens keep on promoting Norway. The wealth is based on Oil they do not like, and fish many advocated not eating it, The sovereign fund makes money from other (poorer) countries. Hypocrite? 6 white,middle class wealthy he . No diversity.
It is possible to buy an acre of land (£5,000) in Scotland and put a hut on it. In Scotland there is no need. Scotland has a ‘right to roam’. Within reason (safety) people can wander anywhere for a small remuneration. B & B etc.
The Oil sector taxed at 40% (when the price had fallen) by the Westminster unionists. Ruining the industry. Losing £Billions in Scotland and 120,000 jobs. The fishing industry mismanaged for 40 years by Westminster unionists. Ruining the industry.
£Billions illegally taken out of Scotland and wasted for years. Ruining the economy and growth in Scotland.
VAT for years has been estimated on NI £7Billion. These is ridiculous NI 2million pop?. Scotland 5.2Million pop. It was obviously higher. Discussion about VAT on the Scotsman website years ago. AM2 lies. Selective figures.
Marr lying again. The Tories are a shambles. They could not make a bigger mess. Lie after lie. The food poisoning scandal.
If I wanted to read what the Herald says I’d buy one. Stop printing reams of their pish here just because you might agree with a couple of transitory opinions.
And when quoting, use proper punctuation, so we know where the quote ends and your opinions start.
Not sure why we need to spell out economic policy after independence.
We DO need to make clear that we have the resources and people to succeed in a big way, and that independence will for the first time ever give the Scottish people democratic control over their resources, economy and wealth distribution.
What we do with them after independence is a matter for the government elected by us – we are not yet writing the post-independence election manifestos.
The usual suspects of course will leap on any perceived opportunity to create division e.g this morning BBC Shortbread on Pete Wishart, and the Growth Commission ‘leak’.
Just before that however, they were interviewing a real person, a lovely Scottish Ibo Nigerian lady from Strathclyde Uni, an expert in re-manufacturing who was singing Scotland’s praises for its industrial potential, great workforce, great unis, great location, culture, rail and road network, and saying Brexit will be an absolute disaster for the Scottish economy. See what happens when you give real people airtime instead of the plastic ‘pundits’ the BBC give so much airtime to.
50% is an extraordinary amount in any democracy. An almost impossible feat.
On a D’Hondt/STV system introduced entirely to give a unionist majority. Without authority. 3rd rejects clogging up the system. Illegally. Pollsters gerrymandering to influence the vote. Illegal donations. Crooks getting away with murder. The Tories killing off their own supporters. The elderly. Vote Tory to die younger. Elderly death up 117% in England.
27% in an Westminster election is a landslide victory.
@ galamcennalath
It’s the ones in the middle who aren’t strongly committed either way that we need to persuade away from the false security many saw in 2014 with the UK.
Exactly right. Although, from my own experience in IndyRef1, what I saw wasn’t so much people seeking the security of the UK – it was more the “Ah dinnae like change – ah like things the wye they urr” mentality that was the problem. We have to get it through to this group of people that big change is coming one way or another and that optinf for Indy in EU/EEA/EFTA means LESS change than going over the cliff with the UK into the big unknown.
The proposed new British political party is to be an offshoot of the Tory party. In renewed efforts to push “British values” it is to be called the Lavatory party!
@Colin Alexander,
OK let’s vote Labour and Tory instead because that will give us independence. Hurrah. Wait
I’m beginning to see a slight flaw in this plan Colin.
This morning another chemical attack reported in Syria, people dead inc children. Of course blame directed against the Syrian Government. While it does seem the attack happened, it is simply unbelievable that the Syrian Government would do this, why because it would auto connect Russia as their major supporter, as such Russia would never sanction the Syrian Government to do it, they in turn would not upset Russia.Something very dodgy going on.
They rely on Russian support, and with the UK poisoning thing still causing media Russia bad across the UK, America and euro nations, Russia certainly would not want this to occur.
Russians is becoming really angry at the anti Russian propaganda from the West.I think we all know,they had nothing to gain by poisoning people they willingly let go 8 years ago.
Remember, no evidence has been produced but the blame game goes on. Boris still ranting like the loony he is.
So back to Syria, I think there is zero chance the Russians would be involved in this incident, they certainly would not have sanctioned this attack, nor permitted the Syrian Government to do it. None of it makes any sense at all.
The western media of course is going rabid, and the usual voices are gathering again to suggest Russian involvement and Syrian Government to blame, another bad reflection on Russia.
However it does seem to have happened, so someone did it, well as bad as it sounds perhaps we need to look at countries or groups that want to damage Russia. There certainly are these actors out there. This is a very bad but effective weapon to enable even more criticism of Russia.
We cannot take things at face value in this world today, there are forces out there who want a hugely destructive world war, provoking Russia the way they are doing, is a very dangerous game. Only those in deep bunkers will survive such destructive event.
So it is a bonkers strategy, yet a very powerful group somewhere is pushing Russia to the brink, this is all madness in an ever more crazy world. Do not be surprised at anything, and do not just believe all that you hear or think you see.
This is the false world we now live in, dangerous times indeed.
Ronnie Anderson , you must have greater stamina than me – an all nighter !
I see the CIA and MI5 and a half have offered to give the food poisoning victim’s new identities.
It doesn’t take a genius to work out that a Cold War is electoral gold to right wing incumbent governments in UK, France, Spain, USA etc.
And on incumbency, has any democratic political party maintained such a presence, as the SNP has, in face of overwhelming adversity and media collusion?
Time to move the goalposts, again.
This party politics stuff is exactly why we need independence, to reason, to debate, to explore alternative ways to end economic and cultural inequality.
The murderer double agent gets M15/CIA protection. After a bout of food poisoning. Or was it just a con scheme from the start. Johnston and the liars. Spectacularly misfires. Psycho bastards. Corbyn is a useless tool. They are even trying to blame him.
For all of you folks with an interest in our past history then take a read of this from page 164 to 229. It may well upset you and spoil your day.
https://www.yourphotocard.com/Ascanius/documents/Jacobite%20Memoirs%20of%20the%20Rebellion%20of%201745.pdf
By the way it’s the anniversary next weekend, https://www.facebook.com/events/1957562794504807/
SUCH A SURPRISE! THE SKRIPALS ARE ABOUT TO DISAPPEAR?!
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/sergei-and-yulia-skripal-offered-new-identities-with-cia-help
“Sergei and Yulia Skripal will be offered new identities and a new life in America in an attempt to protect them from further murder attempts.
Intelligence officials at MI6 have had discussions with their counterparts in the CIA about resettling the victims of the Salisbury poisoning. “They will be offered new identities,” a senior Whitehall figure said.
Senior sources revealed both victims were conscious and would soon begin helping investigators with their inquiries into the nerve agent attack on March 4.”
£70 per year? A Tax increase?
Davidson’s howling SNP bad, as usual.
That’s £1.40 per week..for those earning £630 per week. Aw poor things.
I’ve put a comment O/T, can folk have a wee look, see what they think.
Glad everyone had a good time last night. Cheerie to all.
Chatter in the media about a new centrist political party. Does it support Fundimental right of Scots to decide their own future without outside interference? Does it oppose absolute lunacy of Brexit? Does it support the long overdue introduction of modern democracy to WM?
Probably not. Just another bunch of Greater Englanders insisting London has deity given entitlement to rule across these Isles.
So nothing of consequence to interest us!
Another long predicted false flag “chemical” attack in Syria, this time with nerve gas added. Novichok?
The evil Russkies will never find the Skripals in Florida. Smart move. A few million dollars and some hair dye will protect them. But probably not for long.
How embarrassing that we are still ruled by that idiot Johnson. He calls Corbyn a useful idiot but he is a dangerous idiot and in charge of MI6. Shameful.
I haven’t got an opinion on whethr the next Indyref should be sooner or later but I am sick to death of the British state and its media.
Beam us up Stu. Congratulations on the success of the fundraiser.
Capella says:
🙂
galamcennalath says:
8 April, 2018 at 10:55 am
‘Chatter in the media about a new centrist political party’
..and because we dont have PR at WM elections, it will just split the vote even more and ensure the Tories stay in power for ever.
There’s a Times poll kicking about, they pay for and release only the results they want.
Polls showing contrary figures are simply not published.
The Herald, Paul Hutcheon, don’t vote SNP, Ho Ho Ho
The usual suspects blurt out the same barely even thinly disguised garbage in the hope somebody might think they really really do want Independence but voting for Colin Fox or somebody else would be a much better idea, like Independence supporting Tories maybe?
50% apparently not good enough for one party who is up against the entire British establishment and the BBC SKY STV and every newspaper in each of our equal four nations
Why does anybody think the UK establishment wanted to leave the EU and lied to entire countries to get their way
Because the UK of England doesn’t like to co-operate with anyone, they want to dominate and they couldn’t get away with that in the EU so they leave enabling them to dominate the rest of us in their own inimitable way without any oversight to hold them back
That’s tyrrany not democracy and it shows the UKs cowardly and weasily nature by preferring to be a big fish in a wee pond rather than being a more successful medium fish in a more successful and bigger collective sea
Dr Jim – totally agree with your analysis of England/EU relationship. The British have had every opt-out they have asked for and despite that never happy. The truth is, as you wrote, that they thought they would run the EU. Thank God they failed – imagine the horror of Westminster running the entire show. We really need to be away from these megalomaniacs as soon as possible!
Daisy, nope, can’t see any posts on OT aside 5th April, what’s going on? Am I just all thumbs?
Since, 5th April, since..
louis: click on green “Newer comments” at bottom.
Louis – here it is here.
Apologies I wanted to reply on Scot Goes Pop (but technical issues won’t allow) re the latest comment about Pete Wishart. I am deeply concerned about Pete’s current stance.
I know many people here read his Mr Kelly’s blog…. so
Pete Wishywashy. If the purpose of his current view, is ‘party before country, business as usual, a gradualists approach and keep his job down in London’. He’s on a very sticky wicket. I live in his constituency, I’ve always voted SNP, I will NOT vote for him again if he continues in this vein.
And here’s why I think he’s wrong, Indyref1 was a ‘no change or a big change’ choice.
Brexit changes everything.
The UK is truly ”cked with Brexit, and if we remain with it, we’ll be ”ucked x 2 as they screw us over even more to keep afloat.
If the SNP want to move position from full EU membership to EEA/EFTA I’m OK with that, remaining in the single market is the biggie for the economy, at least in the first instance. But what they have not done, what they continue to fail to do, is keep educating their constituents. We don’t have the BBC, so we have to be educating every day, at local level.
There is no point at all in producing SNP Car Bumper Stickers saying ‘stronger for Scotland’ – this tells no-one anything.
What they should be producing is posters like the ones IndyPosterBoy does and making them car window size (billboards cost too much and take too long).
They should have a theme, for several months at a time. By the end of the year, no-one in Scotland should be in ignorance of the facts of Scotland’s natural wealth and how it is stolen. The next theme is the sell off of our NHS, the next the devastation in jobs re Brexit, etc, etc.
And Brexit is project fear (real and big time) we need to make people aware of this, in the private sector, in education, in our emergency services (shift workers will get royally screwed re removal of working time directive), for our NHS, and farms and fishing industry.
In this way, what was previously Brexit/Immigration argument – becomes much, much more.
Indy for Scotland is now the life raft.
Our backs are to the wall now, its not about could we/should we, its about NOW WE MUST. Heaven help us if we don’t start to fight for it.
And that’s no up tae Pete or Nicla or Alex…. that’s on us. YES WE CAN – NOW WE MUST.
@Bill McLean
You can see it as clear as day in the way the UK of England is handling the fishing *We’ll get a deal that’ll suit the whole of the UK* the say, but the whole of the UK to them is England
Youngs of Fraserburgh *Boom* off to Grimsby, Youngs of Annan *Boom* off to Grimsby even a child could work this out everywhere you look in all the supermarkets Union flags stamped all over produce making it indistinguishable as to where it comes from in our four equal countries of the UK
This goes right back to David Cameron, remember him, him that was going to stay on no matter the referendum result and steer our great country forward *Boom* gone quicker than a greyhound out the traps, job done don’t blame me
And R precious Union holds together with unelected Nigel Farage at the helm doing the Tories dirty work for them so later in history the Tories can absolve themselves *it wisnae us guv*
Motor industry, *We’re leaving the UK* they say, Tory answer *Special deal* Scotland says hold on a minute we didn’t vote for this, Tory answer *Shut up you get no say*
Northern Ireland! Tory answer *Well keep kicking that can down the road till we have total control then we’ll do whatever we like, by then it’ll be too late for anyone to do anything about it so what if some folk shoot stuff or blow stuff up us Tories’ll be fine and we don’t care*
Nicola Sturgeon says Scotland will have Independence, the UK of England says *Not if we asset strip you first you won’t “Now is not the time” and we’ll keep kicking that can far down the road till we’ve nailed your ability to do anything about it whilst flooding the airwaves with anti Independance propaganda using our friends in the BBC and media in general*
Job done!
And folk ask why I want an early Independence campaign and vote, the longer we wait the more screwed we are
. We really need to be away from these megalomaniacs as soon as possible!
When they were in the EU they demanded and got special treatment. Now they’re out, they demand but will they get, special treatment?
Works though.
Its likely that Scotland today would in the end stages of nation state Scotland negotiations with them, if Crash Gordon had switched to the euro back in 1999. Bet our imperial masters are relieved as feck old Crash knocked it all back, back in 1999.
Our imperial masters baiters didn’t even allow us a choice. Ireland chose the euro in a 2002 ref.
Is it a coincidence that euro currency Ireland’s got growth rates never seen here in the greater England Scotland zone?
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-set-for-fastest-euro-zone-growth-for-fourth-year-in-a-row-1.3074556
Meanwhile, our masters work hard, to strip away EU stuff from Holyrood, while their beeb gimps in Glasgow monster SNP Scots gov for lowest growth in teamGB.
Aye..the Skripals get a new identity…then when they are bumped off, nobody will ever find out they are dead.
The world will be left thinking they are safe and happy…!
They really should refuse to go along with this.
Dr Jim – if we don’t get out before Brexit we are totally flucked.
Think we missed a trick when we had 56 MPs. Really concerned for my country’s future and the damage our “best friends” will do to us just because they can on their £1.9 Trillion debt. Sad that Scotland has done so much for England and yet they treat this way. Slight change of topic – they lied about Scotland pre referendum and still are – what chance has Russia?
Having a Herald-free day, it’s great! Glad the Wingers had a good time last night. I’m sure a few ears would have been red hot!
Off Topic. GENDER PAY GAP AT THE BBC—–again!
BBC Radio 4 TODAY PROGRAMME female Presenter moved sideways to 1pm News.
“BBC Radio 4 presenter Sarah Montague said she was “incandescent with rage” when she found out she was being paid less than her Today programme co-hosts.
Montague wrote in The Sunday Times that she felt her £133,000-a-year salary for Today, which she left last month, subsidised “other people’s lifestyles”………”
BBC Archived:
http://archive.is/z8B4d
Tinto, Daisy…my bad, Ta. Will do.
The Herald:
Let’s INVENT a story about what the SNPs growth commission might say then rubbish the stuff we just INVENTED and get some Unionists to point out where it’s Baad and while we’re at it let’s promote names of some socialists who say it’s Baad as well, Oooh let’s get Communist and Green party leader to tell us about his Independent tax plans to make sure business leaves Scotland in droves, that’ll frighten the horses
Folks, the story in the Herald is completely and totally without foundation or merit and based on nothing more than an SNP hating journalists imagination and presented to the public as some sort of insider information piece
It’s not true and worse than that, it’s malicious trolling of the public just so they can print reactions on behalf of Yoonland….It’s propaganda and a flat out lie
Might the Skripol poisoning case be caused by wood-alcohol ingestion & it’s being covered up. The daughter arrives with some rot-gut vodka for her Da & they have a few haufs? There was a wedding in Blackhill many years ago when the bar was stocked by the ICI, quite a few died or were left blind! “Wherrs the weddin photies Mammy?”
Bob Mack
The point is even if you vote Tory or Labour or whatever or don’t vote in govt elections,
You can vote to show you prefer independent govt to the UK Union type of govt.
Independence v the UK Union is NOT about what type of policies we should have for our govts. It is not about which party we prefer.
It’s whether we should have an independent Scotland Govt or a UK one.
Who knows, no trying to put people off but, it could be Ruth Davidson or Kezia Dugdale who leads the first independent Scottish Govt. That first indy govt could be a Tory / Labour coalition. SNP dominance of Scotland’s politics has lasted 10 years. That dominance may end with a vote for independence.
But that would be for the people to decide at election time AFTER we vote to become independent.
Dr Jim.
Which is exactly why crackerjack-ass is avidly promoting the lies.
Hardly anyone with a brain cell reads the papers anymore, those who do, read it for sport section and fat arse american bints nobody else cares about.
James Kelly the so called ‘expert’ who advocated giving SNP votes to everyone else. On the D’Hondt/STV system. So SNP lost their outright majority. Or boosted up the unionists (BT) vote, and did not decide anything. Just lost larger majorities boosting up the opposition vote. Ridiculed anyone who pointed it out.
Now attacking the SNP again. That really supports Independence?? The unelected wants another IndyRef to suit his timing. Not likely. Wrong again?
Some expert.
@ galamcennalath
I think you are right, there is a soft middle group who are our target demographic, altho I’m unsure of the exact figures.
what we also have is boots on the ground.
at the start of indyref1, there were about 20 stalwarts in NE fife constituency and it took months to deliver the 1st yes leaflets. by the end, there were about 50 and we delivered the last leaflet in about 7 days.
after indyref1, the local snp branch membership rose from 200 to 1500 and the number of activists boots on the ground rose to about 100-150. the 2015 GE was a blast and a huge campaign, but since then, many activists have drifted away, although most remain members,
such intense political campaigning over the last 4 years is tiring and numbers of activists never were sustainable. but once indyref2 is launched, i expect that the numerous YES groups across scotland will see an large influx of activists.
a word about campaigning. most of our campaigning focuses on leafleting and to a lesser extent canvasing. the libdems/unionists in this constituency have no activists to do either. the just pay the postman to do it for them and in doing so, neutralise the main advantage we have over the unionists.
we are considering doing the same. it is about £1500 to get the postie to leaflet an entire constituency, about 300-400 per ward. if, as we believe, this will be a short campaign, then we are looking at 4-5 leaflet drops, (about £1600-£2500 per ward)
bear in mind, Ayemail, (rogue coder) ha done an admiral job supplying yes groups with merchandise. each of the boxes we had raise about £500.
Our campaign will focus exclusively on canvasing. with the WBB2. we intend to knock on every door, if no one in we will leave a “sorry we missed you” business sized card (cheap as chips to make, with an email and telephone number). If they are in, we will hand them a WBB2 personally. (also a badge, a yes window and car sticker and the same business card with our contact details)
this is an advantage we have over the unionists, they cant do this. this is how we should use this advantage.
BBC Archived:
Stinky olde The Graun’s got it massive too, top 20 beeb liggers list, Nic Robinson, Steve Wright, but they’ve left out big bucks beeb liggers like Eddie Mair, Scottish haha hard core tory boot boy BBC r4 PM er, host, only £300-£450k a year, pending whether you believe Daily Heil roasters or torygraph zoomers.
They cant even be straight about how many bbc liggers are now multi millionaires. No wonder all of UKOK hackdom is working hard to get to the biggest state funded broadcaster toryboy trough in the world today.
‘Ruth Davidson or Kezia Dugdale leads an Independent Gov’ Some people are suggesting depopulating Scotland further. Everyone would have to emigrate because of these born liars. They haven’t got a clue. Publicity, money grabbing attention seekers. Sanctioning and starving people.
Get real.
Colin Alexander,
I don’t think you get that the names Labour and Cknservative are registered trade names of the National parties. They could not be used in an indy Scotland.Current members of Labour etc would have to find another name for their party,if they wished to remain as Scottish politicians rather than retain membership of the UK party.
OFF-TOPIC
Am I alone in getting the dry boak at the likes of Clare Balding demonstrating such enthusiasm for Scottish medals at the Commonwealth Games?
Not that long ago she was slapping-down Rhona Martin for daring to mention Scotland at the Winter Olympics.
. Everyone would have to emigrate because of these born liars
BBC Scotland alone think they can get the SNP Out by next Scots GE, Thursday 6 May 2021. We have to accept that this is how power is wielded in teamGB. It’s what we voted NO for.
BBC talking heads like Robinson and Mair are multi millionaires. Showbiz stars or highly motivated attack propaganda, for mega bucks stars like whatsherface Montague.
Montague and Robinson news crews were the first to go BBC massive with their Vlad the poisoner hysteria. You can listen to her, Robinson etc NNC r4 start their daily 3 hour vote tory propaganda, fluff toryboys, grovel to royals, violently monster anyone lefty at all, beyond say a FibDem chancer like Carbuncle from Orkney. Actually that’s a lie, they almost never have anyone Lab on their shows and ofcourse there’s a rolling beeb England SNP black out.
Look at how close several SNP MP’s came to losing at Strong and Stable Teresa’s snap GE last year, literally by less than a hundred votes.
Toryboy snap General Elections are extremely effective weapons of choice for our imperial masters, thanks to BBC Scotland up here in particular.
There will almost certainly be another snap Brexit GE. By Thursday 7, May 2021, BBC Scotland gimps alone will have already slashed into SNP Westminster again, coupled with surgically taking out at least a couple of dozen, SNP Holyrood.
Greatest mistake BBC Scotland gimpery made for the last decade or so? relentlessly demonising Alex Salmond on his own. Behind all their attack propaganda on Salmond, SNP vote rose but same beeb gimps have learned. They’ll never that mistake again, just targeting the one SNP at a time. Its why FM Sturgeon is not yet a BBC demonic Salmond level figure, not yet.
Team Ruth (no mention of their party outwith the web address) left me a data harvesting questionnaire yesterday. I didn’t manage to fill it in but I did send them a diagram of Richter tuned harmonica tuning/ bends and a drawing of a soprano recorder. I hope this is of some use to them.
The data harvest was interesting as the form was already preprinted with a list of everyone listed on the roll at this address. Don’t know why they’re doing this just now but it looks like they’re worried.
Another aspect of this Russian Poisoning Fiasco is the fate of the England fans who will travel to the World Cup in the Summer. IMO, I can see a few coming home in body bags:
“What awaits England fans at the World Cup in Russia?
Memories of violence at Euro 2016 are still fresh – but do fans and experts believe the hooligan threat is real?”
In a Moscow pub decorated with British football memorabilia, a Russian supporter of local side CSKA was happy last week to reassure English fans planning to travel to this summer’s World Cup. Konstantin, or Kostya for short, says he doubts there will be violence because the toughest Russian hooligans have already lost their taste for fighting England supporters.
“It’s like being a mountain climber,” said Kostya, a member of one of the Russian capital’s prominent CSKA “firms”, after recalling how a group of Russian fans smashed through a contingent of English fans in Marseille in June 2016, using extreme violence. “Once you’ve reached the summit, you don’t do it again. There’s no point in beating them again. So they don’t have to be afraid to come to Russia, nothing’s going to happen.”
Kostya said he was in Marseille during Euro 2016 but did not take part in the fighting. He said that Russia supporters had always wanted to take on the England fans, who had a status bolstered by popular films and books. It was a question of pride and reputation, he said, like a competition for the “world’s strongest hooligan”.
Ultimately, he said, the Marseille battles had amounted only to a hollow victory because the aftermath brought a severe crackdown on Russian hooligans from police before the World Cup.
The summer of 2018 does not feel like the most auspicious moment for the eyes of the world to be directed towards Russia. For many England fans, talk of the World Cup in Moscow has been soured by those clashes in 2016, as well as incidents of racism, and a litany of major international disputes, from the conflict in Ukraine to the nerve agent attack in Salisbury, which the British government has blamed on the Kremlin.
Geopolitical tensions and a weak pound have already driven down British tourism in Russia. Maya Lomidze, the executive director of the Russian Association of Tour Operators, told the Observer that the number of British tourists had dropped by an average of 10% each year since 2014.
The Luzhniki stadium in Moscow, one of 12 venues for the World Cup.
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The Luzhniki stadium in Moscow, one of 12 venues for the World Cup. Photograph: Dmitry Serebryakov/AFP/Getty Images
The last month has brought fresh incidents. A number of journalists reported hearing monkey chants directed at several of France’s black players – Ousmane Dembélé, N’Golo Kanté and Paul Pogba – during a friendly in St Petersburg against Russia last week. Both Fifa and Russia have launched investigations.
And then there is the behaviour of England supporters abroad. Twenty-five were arrested after clashing with police in Amsterdam before their friendly with the Netherlands last month. Some threw beer bottles at police. It all looks a bit volatile. Yet Russian journalists, commentators, and even hooligans here scoff when asked about the possibility of serious violence this June.
“No offence to the French police,” said Dmitry Navosha, the head of the respected independent website Sports.ru, making reference to the mayhem in Marseille, “But the Russian police hold big sporting events with a lot more personnel and they are a lot tougher.”
In Russia, for instance, it’s not unusual on match day for more than a thousand riot police, colloquially called “cosmonauts” for their heavy helmets, to stand shoulder-to-shoulder all the way from the metro to the nearest football stadium. Alcohol sales are banned in entire neighbourhoods.
Several of those who spoke to the Observer made reference to the relatively incident-free Manchester United and Liverpool fixtures in the Champions League in Russia last autumn. (There are rumours that CSKA fans may come to next week’s match against Arsenal in T-shirts that read “Novichok-Tour 2018: To be continued”. But police may not deem that an arrestable offence.)
“There’s a lot of political talk ahead of the tournament,” said Viktor Gusev, a prominent sports commentator who will be covering the matches in June. “But I think that when the matches actually start that’s all going to go into the background.”
More than a decade has passed since Russia opened its bid to host the 2018 World Cup. In 2010, Vladimir Putin, giving a rare speech in English, said he was “honoured from bottom of my heart” that the country had been chosen to stage it. At that time, the president was Dmitry Medvedev, Russia was recovering from the 2008 financial crisis and oil prices averaged more than $70 per barrel. The World Cup decision was made “long before the critical phase of confrontation with the west”, Navosha said.
Andrei Arshavin celebrates Russia’s winner against the Netherlands at Euro 2008.
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Andrei Arshavin celebrates Russia’s winner against the Netherlands at Euro 2008. Photograph: Alex Livesey/Getty Images
Fast forward eight years, and much has changed. Relations between London and Moscow are at their worst since the cold war. Putin has lost patience with the west. And it doesn’t seem like a successful World Cup can do much to change that.
To a certain degree, the tournament is a relic from a bygone, slightly more innocent past, when Putin might still have believed that Russia could woo the west by successfully putting on prestige sporting events and eventually be accepted into the club of great nations as an equal. That clearly no longer interests him.
But the tournament will go on. Twelve venues in 11 cities are hosting matches this summer, including uncommon tourist destinations such as Saransk and Rostov. From an infrastructure standpoint, the endeavour is even more imposing than the Winter Olympics, which cost the government an estimated $50bn. Indeed infrastructure – with some stadiums still not ready, despite being due to hold matches in just three months – can be a touchy subject: Russian officials still bristle when they recall criticisms from foreign journalists over the preparations for the 2014 Winter Olympics (a BBC photograph of a single bathroom stall with two toilets raised particular ire).
The World Cup, meanwhile, would show a successful mastery over Russia’s vast expanses and one of its traditional problem areas: transport. It would also carry symbolic value.
“I think the original idea was a demonstration of Russia’s greatness for both the outside world and a domestic audience,” Navosha said.
As to the football itself, Russians are hedging their bets. Perhaps Russian football’s greatest moment in the last decade came in the quarter-finals of Euro 2008, when a young squad boasting a pre-Arsenal Andrei Arshavin, scored twice in the final minutes of extra time to win a thriller against the Netherlands. In St Petersburg, thousands of fans jubilantly poured out of bars and cafes onto the streets as though Russia had just won the World Cup.
Russia haven’t made it past the group stages in international competition since then. Gusev, the commentator, saidthat Russia’s youngest generation had not yet produced new stars, and that this was the weakest side the country had fielded “since I was a boy”.
“The Russian joke goes ‘so who are you going to root for after the group stages?’” Gusev said. When it came to club football, he said, he guessed around 80% of fans also watched the English Premier League.
Despite the violence in Marseille in 2016, there is something of a reverence for British hooligan culture, or a mythicised version of it, in Russia. Russian “firms” often give themselves British names, for instance.
Green Street, the hooligan film that some Russian fans seem to have used for inspiration.
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Green Street, the hooligan film that some Russian fans seem to have used for inspiration. Photograph: Shutterstock
“I don’t know if you get this in the UK, but these Russian ultras, the ones who don’t get football without fighting, it’s an imitation, almost a caricature of the British hooligan subculture,” Navosha said. “It’s like in [hardman author] Dougie Brimson, in films such as Green Street or The Football Factory.” Kostya, the football fan, grew up in a military family near Moscow and went to his first CSKA game nearly two decades ago.
Before the police beefed up their presence, he said, networks of CSKA fans would link up on game days and scour the city “trying to find the biggest group of Spartak guys to fight them”.
Now, many of the fights were pre-planned and held in forests, he said. They were often attended by a new breed of Russian hooligan who eschews alcohol and often goes through mixed martial arts or other combat training.
“Fighting in the forest is not hooliganism,” said Kostya, who said he did not participate in those fights. “The point for me is to go to some country or city, drink, have some fun, and if someone is aggressive, we give them the answer. And that’s it.”
Fights have also become more dangerous. Losing could land you in hospital for several months, Kostya said. (In 2016, the French police said the violence had been “almost paramilitary”.)
The police response had been aggressive, Kostya said, with known brawlers receiving “prophylactic visits” and being forced to sign contracts saying that they would stay away from other hooligans. Others have reported searches at their homes and arrests. It has been called unprecedented.
“I think it will be quiet,” Kostya said of the coming summer. “I really want normal fans to come to the country, to enjoy the culture, enjoy the travel.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/08/world-cup-russia-2018-will-it-all-kick-off-hooligan-threat
Everybody else is to blame for the fallout of Brexit apart from the Unionist Brexiteers who caused the mess in the first place.
“David Trimble says Republic risk provoking loyalist violence over Brexit”
April 8 2018
Former First Minister David Trimble has said that the Republic of Ireland’s government is risking provoking violence from loyalist paramilitaries because of their stance on Brexit.
The former UUP leader told the Guardian that any Brexit deal to keep Northern Ireland in line with the Republic would be a violation of the Good Friday Agreeement.
Lord Trimble was one of the key orchestrator’s of the agreement which celebrates its 20th anniversary next week.
He was awarded the Noble Peace Prize alongside SDLP leader John Hume in 1998, in recognition for their efforts to bring peace to Northern Ireland.
“What is happening now is that people are talking up the issue of Brexit and the border for the benefit of a different agenda from the agreement,” Lord Trimble said.
“The one thing that would provoke loyalist paramilitaries is the present Irish government saying silly things about the border and the constitutional issue.
“If it looks as though the constitutional arrangements of the agreement, based on the principle of consent, are going to be superseded by so-called ‘special EU status’ then that is going to weaken the union and undermine the very agreement that Dublin says it wants to uphold.”
The now Consevative Peer said a ‘Hong Kong model’ would not be acceptable to Northern Ireland.
“I believe that some senior Irish government officials go around Brussels talking about the ‘Hong Kong model’ – the one country, two systems idea,” Lord Trimble said.
“That is a precedent they talk about where sovereignty has been transferred from Britain to China. Anything that looks remotely like this or is building on that foundation would be extremely dangerous. Although I think that under this Conservative government I cannot see that prevailing.”
Lord Trimble said that he did not regret signing up to the Good Friday Agreement, but said he should have worked more closely with then Prime Minister Tony Blair after the deal.
“I genuinely believe that Blair was the last person to back a strategy which effectively saw the two centre parties, the UUP and the SDLP, abandoned,” he said.
“In fact I know now it was a very senior civil servant in the Northern Ireland Office who agreed to the strategy, proposed by the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin.”
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/david-trimble-says-republic-risk-provoking-loyalist-violence-over-brexit-36785947.html
@Dr Jim 11:11am
The UK Establishment want to leave the EU ASAP not just because they wanted to be in charge of the EU and could not be. It was also because of this:
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en
which will kick in on 1st January 2019.
They could not do with the EU taking away all their tax avoidance schemes and making them actually pay their taxes.
Daisy,
I agree with and mostly share your view that-
Working to smarten up the argument itself, should be the next logical step.
With pre-emptive countermeasures already in place, in the form of the truth, we need a go-to sphere where that truth is trusted.
Create jobs, sell advertising, one physical newsletter a month to every household without an SNP member, on the back, the poster or stickers or graphs. Charities could sponsor the truth.
It’s outside of the political/ media/ twitter bubble – where Pete Wishart is highly competent – that we need to focus on.
We need to throw everything we have at one issue at a time.
The SNP’s MPs and MSPs have a job to do, mitigating and identifying inequality for all their constituents.
Not too bothered by Wishart’s singular opinion, he’s entitled to it as are we to disagree – but see how much prominence it’s given as, obviously it might help unionists in their argument.
Daisy Walker
Pete Wishywashy. If the purpose of his current view, is ‘party before country, business as usual, a gradualists approach and keep his job down in London’. He’s on a very sticky wicket. I live in his constituency, I’ve always voted SNP, I will NOT vote for him again if he continues in this vein.
———————————–
the SNP line at the moment is “we should hold indyref2 when we believe we will win” see Mhairi Black’s latest speech.
nb, that statement isnt time limited, maybe nicola thinks sept18
we will win?
1. Pete urges caution, says he was devasted when we lost indyref1 and doesnt want to lose indyref2 as he believes there is a good chance we wont see indyref3 in our lifetime. re quebec, seems fair enough to me. this is why he outlines what is only a senario which i will summarise. eg,
just because we have a mandate and can hold indyref2, if support for yes dropped to 30% in the next few polls, should we hold indyref2?
pete would say no because he doesnt want to hold indyref2 when he believes we would lose it. he adds that if support remained low up to 2021 then he want to roll the option over into the next parliament
i think this would be sensible course of action IF support remained low.
However, this is only what pete believes we should do if this senario is what happens. But if you were to ask him what we should do if in the next few days we get a flurry of polls saying support for yes is at 60%, he would say hold indyref2 next week. so would I.
however, i dont think either of these senario’s is likely
Please don’t sully this site with reams of stuff about English football fans, there’s far more important stuff going on.
This makes me very happy. Plus, the die-hard anti-ScotGov unionists will be tearing telephone directories apart with their teeth in frustration. Your resilience, and your determination to track down the facts, Stu, are incredible and I’m extremely grateful that you work so damn hard in the pursuit of truth.
No wonder the MSM and all the other unionist purveyors of mince are so angry.
Thank you.
I’m strongly inclined to doubt – though of course can’t say for absolute sure – that any serious poll that covered all demographics saying any such thing like 60% indy support would ever appear.
louis.b.argyll says:
8 April, 2018 at 3:03 pm
Please don’t sully this site with reams of stuff about English football fans, there’s far more important stuff going on.
Just another kind of trolling from CJ and chums. Although its not even concern trolling either.
schrodingers cat says:
8 April, 2018 at 2:49 pm
Daisy Walker
Pete Wishywashy.
Wishart does not mince his words, why he wants no indyref2 until…
“The main campaign we were up against was the one that asked people to vote for the Conservative candidate to oppose a second referendum.
It was a simple and crude appeal that seemed to chime with large numbers of my constituents who were just weary of big constitutional choices and wanted a break from having to consider them in the near future. It saw my majority fall from about 10,000 to 21.”
Posh part of Scotland though, its odd that Wishart leaves that out. Although its not much fun listening to posh Scots or English rant away at you, We said no, we meant know, posh Peth, posh Aberdeen, posh Embro, posh anywhere in Scotland really. Tory vote’s not just raging in Pacific Quay.
Meanwhile everyone else gets reamed hard by unelected toryboy austerity teamGB.
Poor Pete. Fact is though, he’s saying, don’t gamble with my Westminster career, I came as close as it gets to losing it all, and I don’t want that to happen.
SO lets all kick it down the road, until something changes, to convince your fellow Scot, like fcuking Brexit?
@Daisy Walker
I replied to you on Off Topic. It’s good to discuss
Is this anti-Pete Wishart meme something spread by Cambridge Analytica? I don’t do Facebook so I’ve no idea what subveresive messages might be circulating.
But any divide and rule stuff reeks of unionism.
If he’d had 12 fewer votes in 2017 the Tory would have won.
@ Ken500 at 12.29
You owe James Kelly an apology.
Your allegation, which I have quoted, is the exact opposite of what he said/did.
He devoted many column inches to debunking the myths about tactical voting on the list in 2016.
In 2017, he also explained – repeatedly because it did not get through to those determined not to believe him – that in the STV system used for council elections lower preferences cannot affect higher preferences. So it is safe to “vote till you boak”.
At no point did he ever suggest that SNP supporters should vote for anyone else. He did say that it was not his place to tell people who were primarily Green/Rise/SSP supporters, whose only opportunity to show that support was via the list vote, that they should not do so. That is not the same thing.
Capella says:
8 April, 2018 at 4:02 pm
Is this anti-Pete Wishart meme something spread by Cambridge Analytica?
Yes it is Capella. I work for Cambridge Anal because I disagree with Wishart:D
If Wishart had said, we must wait until YES polls show a clear indyref2 win, before taking the ref2 plunge, it would have been nice if he’d said what might be a possible driver for that, or two.
If they relied on polls to hold referendums, which ofcourse NO ONE does, we’d not now be nearly EU passportless, for example.
Stop posting direct links to the rags…archive them first using this: http://archive.is
Every click on their sites funds/adds to their ‘viewing’ figures etc, them ergo ergo.
Jonathon Pie
The Gender Pay Gap
on you tube, v good
heed
thats a bit low, pete has devoted his entire life to the cause.
if mhairi black and john nicolason think
we should hold indyref2 when we believe we will win,
then it follows
we shouldnt hold indyref2 if we believe we will lose,
schrodingers cat says:
8 April, 2018 at 5:55 pm
heed
thats a bit low, pete has devoted his entire life to the cause.
His entire life SC?
I’m not trying to be mean about Wishart. I am saying that waiting for polls to show YES majority is a cop out.
We all know that YES was much lower poll wise pre 2014. We all know that getting our EU passports ripped up under our noses, by England, is probably the only actual trigger for indyref2, what we will ever see.
Nothing is else is going to be a ref2 trigger constitutional change. Unless you can think of one.
Are we supposed to wait until Brexit makes enough of Scotland much poorer, then poll us, and then if its majority YES, indyref2 gets the green light?
If any SNP MP, MSP, member does not want indyref2 next year, is content to wait and see, argues for waiting and seeing, its time for them to have rethink about what the SNP is all about.
Polls may or not be rigged, and again, it can’t be much fun getting angry posh Perthshire tory gits in your face.
But these tories are the minority in Scotland, they run Scotland like a region from Westminster, and now is the time, for the next 18 months, also:D
@cat
McAskill and Sillars don’t want Indy Ref for a few years, so Wishart and the others aren’t in exactly the best of company with their view. And Independence isn’t you, it isn’t me, it’s not wishy-washy Wishart, it’s not any of us. It’s all of us.
if mhairi black and john nicolason think
we should hold indyref2 when we believe we will win,
I know you’ve all gone, but this is uncle Rupert’s main man in his Scotland region.
Kenny Farquharson
?
Verified account
@KennyFarq
Following Following @KennyFarq
I’m curious as to the political allegiances of those who follow me on Twitter.
So, if there was a UK general election tomorrow, which party would you vote for?
*Only those registered to vote in Scotland, please.
60% SNP
25% Scottish Conservatives
11% Scottish Labour
04% Scottish Lib Dems
2:48 PM – 7 Apr 2018
3,324 votes, 1 hour left,
vote now, vote often.
https://twitter.com/KennyFarq
Does everyone in the bunker under Pacific Quay also follow Kenfarq o the Times?
Prof Curtice poll’s completely the same as Kenfarq?
What Scotland Thinks Retweeted
Britain Elects
?
@britainelects
13h13 hours ago
More
Scottish independence voting intention:
Yes: 43%
No: 57%
Its not Prof Curtice poll, its Panel Base via Britain Elects?
?
@britainelects
13h13 hours ago
Scottish Westminster voting intention:
SNP: 36% (-5)
CON: 28% (+1)
LAB: 27% (+3)
LDEM: 6% (-)
GRN: 2% (-)
via @Panelbase
Chgs w Sep 2017
So maybe Mhairi and Pete are right?
@ Flower of Scotland. (sorry for not replying sooner, I’ve been out).
I’m very loyal to the SNP believe it or not, in spite of my last post. I even have a lot of time for Pete (although maybe’s no just at the minute).
But it is deeply, deeply, concerning that anyone within the SNP does not realise the danger we are in from Brexit.
I say again, last time was a simple choice – change or no change. This time the economic destruction (long term according to forecasts) will devastate the UK as a whole and Scotland twice over as they double down on the asset stripping and destroy devolution / Holyrood.
There will be no majority SNP Party after Brexit, (anyone in the SNP who thinks that, is deluded – they will have even less credibility than Scottish Labour) and no new mandate for a new ref either.
The ‘Can we / should we? attitude is a luxury position we’ve gone beyond. Now we must.
Once this is realised, the concept of losing is simply not an option.
Once this is understood by the public, they will be onside, provided there is a clear and consistent path ahead – which is where the SNP and all within it have got to start providing the clear message.
It is not enough now to simply say ‘when the time is right or when we can win it’ (Shades of Brexit means Brexit). That is a missed open goal to bang home the consequences of Brexit if we do not.
I completely understand there will be posters here that think the above constructive criticism should be only for the meetings, not on a public forum. You have a point, but clear voices and clear criticism can clear the path and right just now Pete Wishart is the one doing the muddying.
A wee bit extra – I am no longer afraid about the ‘optimum’ time for IndyRef2, and I very much was before. Since the shear utter chaos of Brexshit unravels….. We simply cannot afford to lose, it must be soon, and it must be while we have a triple lock, democratic mandate.
Peace and love… and a wee bit chocolate if yir good. kindest regards and best wishes to all.
Amen to all that Daisy.
If we wait for the polls, guys like Wishart are finished next time anyway. Brexit is the ref2 triggers, constitutionally, economically, emotionally, OR., why is the whole pf yoon culture, red and blue tory, led as per by gimpy old BBC Scotland, so afraid of even holding indyref2?
Proud Scot buts can deal with their rule Britannia Brexit parochial union jack draped teamGB, governed by shire tories in England and their beeb gimps up here, because they’re British til they die.
So if we’re going down, we should go down with all guns blazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geOqbM03Hf0
@Daisy Walker
I think much of the anger (which I share) against Wishart is upset, as you put it, how can he be so unaware? I remember watching the opening of the Scotland Act after Smith, you had a dignified speech from Charles Kennedy, Mark Lazaowicz, and even Mags Curran tried to do it right, though half-sniggered at some anti-SNP remark. The rest were dire, sneers and derogatory comments, and Wishart when he stood up seemed to be almost in tears. This was an important moment for Scotland as more powers would be coming our way – including, in theory, statutory Sewell (and permanence). Thank God all bar one of those sneering useless Labour MPs got turfed out by the electorate shottly afterwards, only to be dragged up like Harris by journalists desperate for an anti-SNP sound bite.
So what happened to the firebrand Wishart, did he fizzle out?
So what happened to the firebrand Wishart, did he fizzle out?
Maybe, it happens. If its not in the next 18 months, when? If he is fizzling out its pretty understandable, we’re endlessly lied to about everything UK.
Great thing from The Graun on UK fishing industry, although Graun also wraps a giant union jack around Scottish fash, for their precious union.
Best bit at the bottom, as ever.
https://archive.is/0qDug
Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and others like to say that the CFP has “destroyed” the British fishing industry or “halved” the number of British fishermen. In fact, in terms of profits of the big fishing companies, the British industry is one of the most successful in the EU.
If the numbers of fishermen in the UK have fallen sharply since 1973, it is partly the fault of the cod wars. It is also the result of the sale and concentration of quotas into fewer and fewer hands – something that successive British governments have permitted or encouraged.”
How to beat this union of liars?
heedtracker says:
8 April, 2018 at 9:22 pm
Its not Prof Curtice poll, its Panel Base….
So maybe Mhairi and Pete are right?…
The reason I get upset is the chicken and egg logic which currently seems to mesmerise the SNP. The polls aren’t moving, so now is not the time for an Independence campaign, but the polls aren’t moving because there’s no ongoing Independence campaign trying to fkn move them.
Honest to God, what is the thinking here??? Get a feck’n grip will Ye?
Theresa May’s snap election is material proof of what happens when you take your foot off the pedal and “coast along” simply hoping for the best. It’s there! Right in front of you! It isn’t complicated arithmetic!!! Yet what, you’re going for double or quits???
From the very instant it was announced, I thought Nicola was dead wrong to say we needed to know the final Brexit deal before we could trigger the IndyRef. Dead wrong!!! At a stroke, we surrendered all initiative over to the BritNat Tories who can stall, prevaricate, and kick the “final” Brexit into the long grass over and over again. They’ve done EXACTLY that. Less than a year to go, and nobody has a scooby what a final Brexit deal will look like.
Theresa May can, and has, made a virtue out of complete shambles, leaving Barnier and the Irish Government to lead the UK by the nose just to get the deal done and be shot of the damned idiot British. It won’t be a hard Brexit or a soft Brexit, the EU will put a contract in front of David Davis for an “expedient” Brexit. Theresa May will sign it in wax crayon, and the BBC will herald the deal as triumph for Imperial British statesmanship.
Scotland will be left out in the cold, trying to push open a door which both the EU and Westminster want kept firmly shut, bolted, dead locked, boarded up, lights out, goodnight.
If the SNP honestly don’t see that, then maybe Rev Stu ought to have an emergency mini Wee-Blue-Book printed off and put a copy on every chair at the SNP Conference in June. Maybe a free “Wings” drawing pin to sit on too…
Stop trying to be clever, stop trying to be inventive. You’re screwing it up by thinking too much!!! The SNP has a democratic mandate to save Scotland from Brexit. That doesn’t mean a compromise botch job, it means staying in the EU, or die trying. Plan the dive, dive the plan… stick to the unequivocal democratic mandates you’ve been given, and arm yourselves with the iron rod of Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty.
The SNP has the Heaven sent gift of a Constitutional schism the size of an elephant, and it has fallen right in its lap; an unequivocal democratic mandate from the sovereign people of Scotland to stay in the EU that is diametrically opposed to the will of Westminster and the English electorate to leave it. All the omens are on our side. Europe can back us, help us, nurture us, and give us a standing ovation for goodness sake! Westminster is the bare footed village idiot with a chip on his shoulder about bloody foreigners. Jesus H…. Constitutional sovereignty crises don’t come any better, and seldom better timed!!!
I just do not understand what is wrong with the SNP’s fundamental instincts and all these abstract distractions. With less than a year to catastrophe, you are wasting time, dancing on the head of a pin.
If Scotland is dragged out of Europe, your mandates are obsolete. The Sovereign subjugation of Scotland is no longer a rallying cry and Constitutional call to arms, but a bleak matter of grim academic record. Another grey benchmark of humiliation. Your capitulation will be all but complete. You have no hold on Europe, and Europe has no hold on you. You honestly think the polls will favour your referendum then?
Instead of missing the battle, you will have missed the war.
Compare and contrast, actual journalism in that Graun thing on Brexit and Scottish fash last Friday , with Graun vote Leave Scotland dramatic and exciting unionist propaganda just before Brexit ref.
May 2016, Severin at his finest, lying for his union.
https://archive.li/n9nhc
Salt in their veins and fire in their bellies: fishermen battling for Brexit
The EU referendum has united an often fractious industry, with skippers in ports from northern Scotland to Cornwall desperate to dump imposed quotas
by Severin Carrell in Fraserburgh.
April 2018. actual journalism,
“Thus lucrative Scottish white fish quotas are now dominated by three or four multimillion-pound companies based in north-east Scotland. Worse, 50% of all English quotas and 88% of Welsh quotas are “owned” by British-flagged ships that are really Spanish or Dutch or Icelandic. One Dutch mega-trawler has the right to catch 24% of the total English quota.
By contrast, the inshore fleet – fishing within 12 miles, using boats mostly shorter than 10 metres, with much lighter ecological impact – is allowed just 4% of the total English quota. None of this has anything to do with the EU, which is why you never hear Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage complain about it. The divvying out of national quotas is purely the responsibility of national government.”
May 2016,
“Trawlermen see themselves as the worst affected by the UK’s membership of the EU. They talk of shrinking quotas, of backroom deals with the Spanish, Danes or French, and most of all, a sense that UK fisheries ministers have been too soft with their competitors.”
etc
Hello Headtracker.
Appreciate your comments. I am not angry with Pete (well maybe a little) _ and if he’s burnt out I’ll be in the que to help him.
This is different. I would go on , but all I would be doing is repeating what I already said.
Pete if your reading this, your days as an MP are coming to an end. That’s an absolute.
Brexit is horrendous for the UK and 2 or 3 times worse for Scotland. Yes we can and Now We Must. That’s it, forget timing, its that simple now. And if you won’t, your constituents are going to move on without you. And they will not forget.
That’s how it is. You want to play it different, you’ll be seen as a consummate player, and I think your better than that.
PS (for Pete) and I know you read wings… or at least you used to.
@Daisy Walker
Peter A Bell has commented on his blog, and I felt obliged to as well.
https://petewishart.wordpress.com/2018/04/08/we-must-conduct-our-debate-with-respect/comment-page-1/#comment-4281
Pete Wishart needs to get his head straight 😎
Daisy Walker says:
8 April, 2018 at 11:12 pm
Hello Headtracker.
Appreciate your comments. I am not angry with Pete (well maybe a little) _ and if he’s burnt out I’ll be in the que to help him.
Ofcourse. But its all a huge hit online with the tories, red and blue. Shows how they grab at anything for their union.
Keny Farq of the Times twitter poll closed.
So, if there was a UK general election tomorrow, which party would you vote for?
70%SNP
19%Scottish Conservatives
08%Scottish Labour
03%Scottish Lib Dems
Someone asked him,
@gregmoodie
3h3 hours ago
Replying to @KennyFarq @bignormplease
What are you taking from this result, Farq?
Kenny Farquharson
?
Verified account
@KennyFarq
3h3 hours ago
That Scottish political twitter is dominated by Nats and Tories, as if I didn’t know.
So why ask nearly 5000 people how they’ll vote, if you already know the answer.
@ Indyref2, sadly Pete is getting a bit actressy about this business, in truth we miss Alex Salmond at Westminster, there’s a big gap there unfilled but our MP’s were sent south to get us the hell out of there not bed themselves in. Contrast the position on Westminster taken by Mhairi Black MP. The date of the referendum will be on the shoulders of Nicola Sturgeon, it’s what she’s paid for!