A minor detail
Posted on
January 05, 2015 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
From today’s Telegraph:
Actual number of children belonging to Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell: 0.
You literally can’t make this stuff up.
They’re such a bunch of dicks. Apologies to all actual Dicks out there.
Labour benefits, the wealthiest.
The above article is just piss poor journalism, as par usual.
When will they realise that this is not just about wealth?
It’s also about social inclusion. It’s about every child having opportunities without being made to feel that they are different.
I remember in the 1960’s that free school denners were few and far between. It was well known that if you got free school denners you were really poor.
My pal Margaret got free school denners. Everyone knew. She got a green ticket whilst everyone else got a blue one.
She was mortified and had to be at the end of the queue at dinner time.
Anyway, who defines wealth, some parents might look to be well of on paper. But the reality is most often very different.
Treat each child the same, Irrespective of the parents.
We never thought of it first so we’re against it Policy
I’ve got a spare empty fag packet to write the next one on, laugh i thought i’d never start
I’m an Insturgeont..
They will now pledge 1,000 more free meals for evrey free meal the SNP offer. With a glass of wine.
So if Labour win the election and form the next government will they scrap free school meals for P1 P2 already introduced in England in Sept of last year.
Jim Murphy must tell us.
@Dr. Jim, “I’m an insturgeont”. Brilliant.
At least the SNP haven’t come back with rich like Johanne Lamont’s family!
P1-P3 playground stuff.
[…] A minor detail […]
Can these heartless bastards sink any lower than wanting to take the food out a hungry bairns mouth.
They need to go BIGTIME.
Universality is an extraordinarily important concept which is being sidelined by all these calls to deprive “the rich” of the normal benefits of a society they have paid a lot of tax into.
Just as Uncle Bob says, it is a hugely significant thing to have all children in the school sit down to eat together, and to eat from the same menu, with no distinction between rich and poor. This has the potential to lay the foundations of a more egalitarian outlook throughout life, and the sooner it can be extended at least to the end of primary school the better.
And that’s not even mentioning the value for many children, and not just the ones from poor families, of eating a well-balanced nutritious meal, from a plate at a table, and learning how to behave and what table manners are.
Services for the poor are often poor-quality services, as has often been observed. If the children of the vocal and bolshie middle-classes are eating these meals, there’s a much better chance they’ll be good meals. As soon as it’s “only” for people on benefits, quality suffers. And the same can be said for the NHS.
But it’s not just that. To be continually telling the better-off in society, who after all are the ones actually paying the taxes that fund these benefits, that they can’t have them and they have to pay all over again, is to exclude the rich. To know that you get free prescriptions, or eye tests, or a bus pass, or a school lunch, not because you’re destitute, but because you are a member of society, is to feel part of that society. To feel wanted, even. To be excluded fosters resentment over taxation, and eventually withdrawal to gated communities.
Higher taxes which the people paying them then see as being linked to benefits that they themselves can access can be a cohesive thing for everyone.
That we know of.
New Labour Scottish Branch’s next revelation will reveal the real reason for the SNP’s school meals program – they have been secretly amassing an army of brainwashed children in a vast cavern underneath Bute House.
Since free school meals is both a health and education measure when did labour tell everyone that access to health and education should be means tested. They have form on this notion e.g. Their opposition to free prescriptions. I thought the were for universal access to health service” free at point of delivery”. If there are any socialists left in Scottish Labour they must be wondering WTF is going on with this right wing Murphyand his ,’regional’ chums
Uncle Bob is correct that all children be treated the same so there is no stigmatism.
O/T staying with relatives in London and I see that the English edition of the Sun seems to be in full anti-Milliband mode. There was even an editorial in the Friday edition telling him to stay out of Scotland and if possible stay at home as he is useless.
I totally agree that all children should get free school meals. A main benefit is the ridding of the stigma that was associated with them.
I got them for a time in the early 70’s in secondary school, I hated registration on a Monday morning as part of that was though on free school dinners had their name read out and had to walk to the front of the class to collect their 5 tickets for the week.
That was bad enough in front of your own class but the tickets were green while all paid for tickets were red.
I’ve always believed this was deliberate, as if the child was responsible for their own circumstances.
I’d rather have free school meals for all than foodbanks in every town, so should any decent society.
Journalistic negligence of the highest order.
Wass it the wealthiest who benefited most from the Labour Government falling over themselves to introduce welfare sanctions for single parents families and their dependent children in 2006?
Welfare reform
David Freud, Baron Freud
link to en.wikipedia.org
What would they have done with the money?
handed it back because they couldn’t think of anything to spend it on I expect.
As a primary school pupil in the 1950s and 1960s I would have gone hungry rather than use a green ticket for my dinner.
Can enyone explain how a child from a rich family benefits more from a school lunch than a child from a poor family? Are the lunches provided on a reverse means-tested basis, so wealthy kids are served Waitrose ciabatta with olives, parma ham and sparkling grape juice while poor children get tap water and cold tinned peas?
In a decent world lies like these should be a chargeable offence.
Then it is politically motivated, and attempting to deceive voters.
Remember, once more who are with and just how desperate they are,
the lies are going to pile up.
If the better off ToryLabs want to pay let them pay anonymously and voluntarily to a central fund via a mobile phone number for example. It would be interesting to find out the difference between rhetoric and the real willingness to pay a little bit more than others.
I mentioned it on the other thread, but Carolyn Leckie’s article in the National today is brilliant.
It covers universalism and is quite apt given this post by Stu.
Simon Chadwick – Absolutely right, as a proportion of available funds, it would surely benefit the poorest most. The extra £300 a year will barely pay a month of wee Jemima’s pony’s stable fees but could make the difference between a poor family eating and not.
They really do need some help joining together their thought processes.
How long can any serious member of the Labour Party in Scotland put up with this?
If you come down to it free school meals are just as sensible as free schools or free pavements or free street lights.
Universality is a sensible concept that binds communities together and is also the most cost efficient way to provide services.
O/T I note the Herald moving into Daily Labour mode already.
@Andrew Morton
Easy to say, much harder in practice. Nobody likes to be hungry.
Very well said Morag, its like universalism is a dirty word now for the Establishment in Westminster, but you capture the strength and benefits of it for all brilliantly.
This far right torygraph loony brought up another far right torygraph loonie, Cochrane. One things for sure, the Blue Tory boys really have the hots for future Scottish FM Murphy.
With friends like modest yet brilliant far right comedian Cockers, how bad can things really get for Labour in Scotland? Also I don’t know why tory boys like this suddenly became so modest over how they single handedly stopped Scottish democracy 18th Sept 2014, maybe after a job for life at Pacific Quay.link to archive.today
Vote Labour Scotland, commands The Daily Telegraph, or another chapter of “Jim Murphy, my part in his triumph” A Cochrane:D
“It is, thus, mainly up to Mr Murphy to stop the SNP by pricking their ludicrous pomposity about the referendum result.
They lost because, as the figures now prove conclusively, of their whopping great Project Fib about an independent Scotland’s economy.
It is up to Jim Murphy to nail the Nats’ colours firmly to that mast. The polls may well paint a bleak picture of his chances in 2015 but he has plenty of time, as well as the drive and personality, to pull it off.”
As mentioned by a previous poster,all have paid into the system.I have several friends who you would consider well heeled and invariably their children go to private schools whatever your feelings on that.They have lunch included in the fees in any event, I am sure there are many more than the ones I know
Well said Morag, its all about the commonweal.
Simply beggers belief. What unreasoned and unresearched tripe they come out with. Roll on the GE.
Does the free school meals policy apply to public schools or not? Maybe that’s why Labour are upset
In case people haven’t come across it yet, Robin McAlpine explains the neoliberal Westiminster strategy of how the Tories are destroying the British universal welfare state by attacking the poor and how the red tories are destroying it by attacking the wealthy.
I can’t recommend Robin enough for people who want to understand the principles of a universal welfare state and why it’s so popular with the public and unpopular amongst the Better Together mob.
Reference –
The campaign against the welfare state – know your enemy
09 Oct 2012
link to reidfoundation.org
We are all Nicola Sturgeon’s bairns. Or something like that.
I would go further and feed ALL prim school kids with breakfast too.
I believe it’s the most important meal of the day .
Little steps as everything requires funding and trained staff etc takes time .
Anyhow just shows how far right Labour have moved .
If the rich are gonna be so better off slap another % on yer mansion tax that would even it up .
Sorry I had to stop reading the article it just makes me sick .
Reminded me why I ain’t bought a paper for 30 years.
[…] A minor detail […]
@Morag, you have hit the nail on the head in my humble opinion – I’m sure it was Aneurin Bevin who made that very same argument about the NHS being completely free for everyone and was appalled when prescription charges wete introduced, although I’ve had difficulty finding the reference for that.
@jimnarlene
Make em laugh make em laugh, I do my best, i’m here all week
How do they know at which point a child stops being in the poor ‘bracket’ and moves into the non-poor bracket.
Would parents need to tell the school what they earn? What if a parent becomes unemployed, do they need to inform the school, then would there be a time when the parents goes from solvent to not so solvent, then not solvent? Then the child would qualify.
If there was a new child born would the parents need to inform the school because there might not be enough funds for rest of the children to have enough food?
If a pre-school child died would the parents need to inform the school because more resources would become available for the remaining children so they would not need free school meals.
Come on Labour in Scotland we need to know your ‘plan’.
Two basic instincts in humans and all life in fact is simple.
Sustenance and reproduction. To deny yourself either is going against your instinct.
We used to have to go to the school office and collect our tokens. I enjoyed that as one of the ladies in the office was lovely and in hindsight it was a highlight of my day.
I do also remember trying to sneak off to get it during classes so that nobody would see me … nuff said
Glad I joined the SNP…Glad my 5 year old will get to sit with the other kids and share hot meals, conversations, etc. Glad we are not going back to the days when I had a free meal dinner ticket that singled me out as a Children’s Home kid/orphan that got me a daily dinner time kicking… Labour are acting disgracefully. No social empathy, no desire to cooperate for the good of all, no chance of winning GE15….
Good post Morag @ 9.08 Pm
As a former 40% tax payer , I agree 100% with your post
The wealthiest kids will be at private schools or Eton or taking packed lunches. It is primary 1-3 the most vital age for proper nutrition which will lead on to healtthy diets for life. Saving £Billions. Spend a little to save a lot.
The EIS are not talking down the Scottish budget, as reported in some of the dubious pictorials. They are saying the Scottish Gov have laid down the budget, and the useless Unionist Councils should be honouring it.
The Daily Mail wouldn’t make that mistake:
link to archive.today
I don’t remember tickets. I usually went home, but if I had to stay for school dinner I had to pay a shilling, because I had no brothers or sisters. It was 11d if you had one sibling and 10d if you had two or more I think. And there were the free meal children too. I don’t remember feeling at all negative towards them, it was just the way it was. It never occurred to me they felt any worse about it than I felt about not having any brothers or sisters. They probably did though.
Anyway, in Primary 6 some of us figured out that we could take our shillings and go to Peacock’s the baker across the road, and get a pie and a glass of orange juice for 10d, served by a real waitress, and pocket the extra 2d. And the pie was nicer than the school dinners anyway.
It never even occurred to me that the children on the free meals couldn’t join in this wee scam of ours.
John King asks what they would spend it on. Maybe even more champagne and subsidised food for cronies once they get to the house of lords. More to the imperial masters and less for the serfs… that’s what they like isn’t it?
Labour really hate universal benifits, don’t they?
I can never forget my teacher in primary school who never sent back any extra bottles of free school milk. She kept them and gave them quietly to the poorest kids in the class in the afternoon. For many of them it was the only decent meal they had in the day (and apparently it nearly wiped out rickets which is back with a vengeance in West Central Scotland). Does anybody remember the wee bowly legged Glasgow men. Free school milk made that a thing of the past and we bred bigger children because of it. This was the generation of big kids that won the European Cup and the Cup Winners Cup (Jimmy Johnstone and Willie Henderson excepted).
We have had a history of wise men who recognised the massive benefits of universalism in producing a healthy population -even the inspired Glasgow mercantile class who recognised that clean water would hugely increase the health and productivity of their work force and built the Loch Katrine reservoir to bring it to Glasgow.
The Labour Party in Scotland has to be destroyed as a matter of urgency.
Brilliant Morag!
I’ve been saying that (although not so elouently) to someone just recently about ‘free’ prescriptions.
Cochrane supports Labour/Unionists. It is the only rag that will employ him. Red rag and the bull.
good comment on universality, Morag.
At the other end of life, think about the bus pass.
I remember one day being with a group of ladies of a certain age heading into Edinburgh for the day. There was some joshing as I scratched around for the exact bus fare, as I (at 58) was the only one without a bus pass. (And I had driven the entire party to the bus stop, too!)
But imagine the sociodynamics of that if it isn’t just age that’s the thing. The one with the bus pass feeling mortified that she’s poor enough to qualify. Maybe pretending she doesn’t have it and finding the fare anyway. The ones without feeling excluded from the benefits of the society they’ve paid into all their working lives. As if taxes aren’t the foundation of an inclusive society, but some sort of compulsory charity.
Older people with their life experiences are in a better position to cope with this than young children, but I bet even they would find that embarrassing.
Some kids saved their dinner money for shoes.
As a teacher of a P1-3 class, can I just point out that the way school meals are administered ensures that no child knows or has any way of knowing whether another child is in receipt of free school meals, unless they are told by that child themselves. We have moved on a bit since the majority of people on here were at school, you know. Inclusion, equality and diversity are major priorities in Scottish education.
Obviously I completely support the introduction of free school meals to all P1-3 children and would love it to extend to all children in state education of any age.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
5 January, 2015 at 9:34 pm
“How long can any serious member of the Labour Party in Scotland put up with this?”
Well one of our local Labour councillors has gone in print in the Cumnock Chronicle complaining about and wanting to do away with the Council Tax freeze and ‘free’ (which really aren’t as we’ve already paid for them out of the NHS budget) prescriptions.
So it seems it’s not only the hierarchy that have mutated into something blue…
I think the provision of free meals will help in the education of the kids,better nutrition should help learning.
I think the thing about taxes being compulsory charity is quite important. If that’s how people think about them (and I bet most of us know at least one American who thinks like that), they will resent paying them. They’ll say, you make me pay once for the poor man’s child, then I have to pay all over again for my own child. (Taxation is theft, why right has the government to forcibly take the fruits of my labor at the point of a gun, yadda yadda, you’ve heard it all before.)
That’s the mind-set behind all this corrosive brainwashing that taxes are a bad thing and the only good way for a tax rate to go is down. I want more universal services, not less, so that people begin to understand that taxes fund a civilised society that provides necessary things for all its citizens. Not compulsory charity, being forced to pay for someone else.
I want a society where everyone is looked after because they are members of the society, irrespective of their income or wealth. If they’re wealthy they’ll have paid for it disproportionately anyway. I like being Scottish and getting free prescriptions and eye tests and my bus pass (I do have one now), and it’s not about the money, it’s about the warm fuzzy feeling that my country is looking after me.
Morag, well said and the points concisely made. It’s a pity many of our elected representatives don’t.
Sorry, should have read ‘don’t get it.’
I sometimes think that Nicola and Peter have sacrificed the children they might have had, for Scotland. The years Nicola was most likely to be having a family were the years covering the establishment of the Scottish parliament, vitally important years in politics for someone with the ambition to lead the country to independence.
Maybe they made a conscious decision, maybe it all just slipped away by default, or maybe I’m completely wrong and making a prat of myself. But if I’m even close to right, what a horrible, hurtful thing for Labour to come out with!
(Right up there with Lamont’s jibe about Salmond not having children, when she must have known that it was already unlikely that Moira would have children by the time of their marriage.)
James Arriere says
‘Does the free school meals policy apply to public schools or not? Maybe that’s why Labour are upset’
Well, they have charitable status, so good point. However, many in Edinburgh that Inknew, sent their kids to state primary schools, which are half decent, then they go onto private schools to complete their schooling. Personally, we opted, (not really out if choice but there you go) for home education, state school having no support for gifted kid with Aspergers at the time. Dinner time can be quite a hell for kids with autism anyway, free or not,
I have a dream that one day that Scotland will wake up.
For the love of God, is there anyone who can waken up Scotland.
@ Alex Clark. 9:44
Is that to do with furniture dear?
As this is Handsel Monday, all the best. You’ll have to Google it folks. 🙂
The Labour Party politicians, being the shits that they are, are not taking the welfare or feelings of the kids into account. Giving all the kids free meals removes any stigma, embarrassment or shame for those who whose parents are unfortunate enough not to be able to afford to pay.
When I was at school the kids who received free school meals were give different meal tickets and had to queue separately from those who paid.
They were taunted for not being able to pay for their meals by some of those whose parents were wealthy enough to pay for theirs. The upshot was that many of the poorer kids preferred to go without a meal rather than join the queue of shame.
Labour Party take note. Using the Scottish government’s system of free meals to everyone makes everyone equal. There not being any socialists left in the Labour Party in Scotland, I wouldn’t expect you to understand this principle.
Terrific comment Morag and I echo everything you say. Saving a couple of quid would certainly won’t benefit the richest households most I can assure you.
Liars and those who report lies. When they get together heaven knows what gets written.
Labour talk shite. No surprise there.
But, then the Telegraph guy, Simon Johnson, takes the garbage at face value without making even one phone cal or web searchl to check the facts.
Who buys this rubbish!? Who reads this rubbish!? What does a Telegraph read even look like? We need answers.
One_Scot
I think it’s up to us to waken Scotland up.
Having the chance to read and write on blogs like this does give me hope. There are others like me out there. Maybe they don’t live near to me, maybe I’ll never meet them, but the feeling that others want to sort this out once are for all raises my spirits.
I may be crazy but I think that some of us must have inherited these feelings from way back. I read a lot about Scottish history and it comes through time and again that the spirit of the Scottish people has always been to look after everyone.
It is indeed in our DNA. We don’t have to think about it, it just makes sense. Our Scottish royals were Kings and Queens of Scots. They swore allegiance to the people, we did not swear allegiance to them. In that sense we are like these kings and queens. We want to swear allegiance to every one in Scotland. We want the whole community to thrive for the betterment of everyone.
We need to do this as it is the just way.
I’m totally sick of this bollocks from Labour and there are still five months to go!
Shock! Peter Jones of the Scotsman appears to be a fan of Nicola over Mr Murphy’s ideas in tackling inequality?
Personally I’m gobsmacked, he’s never been kind to the SNP.
link to archive.today
I was just thinking that it is going to be a long campaign
Well said, Morag
Another point worth making when you get the sort of eejit response that Labour is making is why would any well off person pay his or her taxes if they don’t get the benefits that their taxes are paying for.
Natasha has said that the stigma thing doesn’t apply now, as the identity of children who get free school dinners is kept secret. I don’t think that changes the argument at all, just as she said.
It’s about everybody sitting down to eat together. If some kids have their own packed lunches, then that can become a divisive thing too, as they sit in one place and exclaim over the bag of crisps or the cupcake, while others are in the dining hall eating prison food.
And while I don’t suppose it’s practical to ban packed lunches, there is now the opportunity for them to become a seriously weird thing to have. This won’t just improve the society of the school, it’ll save little Tarquin and Jocasta from the consequences of the crisps and the cupcakes. And make sure they know how to use a fork and knife, which having ridiculous names doesn’t confer on them automatically.
@first commenter,
Apology accepted…
Maybe I am stupid, but did I just hear Murphy saying on Scotland 2015, that SLAB voted for free school meals????
Yet I read this,which suggests otherwise:
link to snp.org
@One_Scot
There is someone, he’s standing for election in Gordon. He’s been trying his best for nearly 40 years but we’re in such a deep sleep it might take a bit longer.
Dave, that’s exactly the point I was trying to make, in my roundabout way. You put it clearer and more succinctly.
The answer is, they’re forced to pay. It’s back to the right-wing American and his complaint that “government steals the fruits of my labor at the point of a gun,” forcing him to pay for another man’s child, leaving him struggling to find the money to pay for his own child.
I’ve seriously heard this as an argument against universal healthcare, that the writer needed his money to pay for his own child’s healthcare but the government wanted to rob him to pay somebody else’s child’s healthcare. Nobody could get it through to him that he would no longer have to worry about his child, his child’s healthcare would also be covered.
It may be there was an underlying feeling that a universal service would be of poor quality, and so the writer wouldn’t want it and would be forced to pay twice. There may be a grain of truth in that in the USA. But the way to rectify that is to make the service so universal that the middle classes don’t even think about paying for a different service, but organise and pressurise as needed to ensure that the service is of good quality.
And if this does need a bit more in taxation, at least there’s a selling point there. You’re not being taxed to care for somebody else’s child, you’re paying into the common fund which your child is as eligible to benefit from as the child of the unemployed labourer.
The rational arguments presented by both Morag here, and Caroline Leckie in the National, linking amongst other things, improved quality of service with universalism shows that we, on this side of the debate hold not only the economic but also the moral high ground.
Surely the opposite is true – households without young children stand to benefit the least as they pay tax towards a policy they will not immediately benefit from.
Although we all surely stand to benefit in the long term from improved diet and spending money on food rather than means testing administration.
What bothers me is not that Iain Gray is a nasty imbecile, using this cheap pish smear to highlight Nicola Sturgeon’s income (jealousy over his own failed attempt to become our First Minister?) but the way labour are being pushed to the front of the news agenda up here.
Even the telegraph is giving them a punt. We’re in the referendum all over again. Any journalist worth the title would be carving Gray a new one the morn. Let’s see if there are any real, living Journalists in the unionist press – or are they all simply following orders?
Living as I do in a small rural place with the local academy, I know to avoid the local co-op and bakery at lunchtime. Seeing the amount of junk food that the teenagers buy with their lunch money is horrific.
Free school meals would at least let these kids see what a real meal is like.
Just goes tae shows ye people with job titles earning big bucks are clueless. Simon Johnston ( Scottish Political Editor) Telegraph for simple Simon.yer a MUPPET.
Here we go here we go here we goooooooo! etc Torygraph chases its own tail.
link to archive.today
School meals are vital but if I was the decider, I’d have spent the money on the new Forth Bridge on teacher recruitment and raising pay and TC training. All of which leading to small class sizes with great teachers, like what they get in private schools.
Its doesn’t guarantee success but nowadays the Scottish O grade is the Scottish higher apparently. But I’m not the decider. Also highly literate and numerate kids tend to ask questions that our imperial masters don’t want to hear and it’s not a coincidence they are shitting themselves now.
Evidence also exists that children perform better when nourished with a half decent meal inside them.
That fact alone makes this a very worthwhile policy.
Dear God. Free school meals, I was a recipient, hated it shamed me beyond belief, not allowed into the dinning hall until everyone else had gone in. Aye the 1950s in west central Scotland in a labour controlled area. Labour will never change. Throughout my entire life I have never never understood how or why people vote for such a disgusting, vile, spiteful, deceitful political party I am convinced that they hate us and I do mean all of us, it does not matter how you vote
@heedtracker – either Murphy is dim or he’s trying to cause trouble for Milliband!
Westminster, the establishment and Unionist politicians have form when it comes to the wellbeing of children, don’t they, so it’s hardly surprising when they oppose something which benefits children.
Aye, come to think of it, so does the BBC, eh!
I got quite aereated a while back about us talking about “welfare” and that to use welfare was to define the “problem” in their terms. We should try to use “social security” instead.
Not only does it remind us who are one or two pay-packets from disaster that we have a fall-back but it also reminds the loaded that if push comes to shove then the fate of their counterparts in revolutionary France and Russia will be their’s also.
Just how many of the middle classes could survive 6 months without their salary?
Please use “social security”.
After watching and hearing Kezia the Dug, Ruthy the snob & Wee Willie Wonka on stv my great grandchildren are more mature, honest and capable than this bunch of wasters and chancers. These dregs of humanity are being promoted and supported by the putrid EBC and MSM.
Unfortunately I am beginning to hate the site of the lot of them. How anyone with a basic level of intelligence and morals could vote for this bunch of gangsters.
@Wullie
The stigma of receiving free school meals undeniably would have created an inferiority complex in many who received them because there was that factor of shame attached.
Let’s not allow shame to hold back our children when all are equal to begin with.
It just disgusts me that no journalist will print a properly researched, unbiased political story without reverting to personal sneers, inaccuracies & lies.
All too often we’re fed nothing but Party Political Broadcasts masquerading as journalistic insight, and out and out lies.
P.S:- bit o/t this bit.. Over at the BBC they are more concerned with a company proving the claims they make of their product..
link to bbc.co.uk
“The BBC challenged its makers to prove it was capable of doing what they said.”
Here’s a thought BBC (or most MSM Journo’s) why not use that same principle of truth to your political reporting rather than just towing the Labour Branch In Scotland’s Party line.
No, to hell with telling the truth when it comes to issues of Social Responsibility etc, we’ll just put the Labour Lies up in Lights. But my god this bit of tech better be counting my calories properly or god help them.. They’ll rue the day they messed with our truth busting tech reporter.
C**ts
I go back to the Forties. There was no such thing as free meals. We who could not pay waited at the rear door of the kitchen until all those who paid & the teachers had eaten and left. The door was opened just enough so we could gain access. We speedily scoffed any food left on the plates and helped by clearing up the dining room.
Our group got through our schooling sticking together. Two social groups. The have’s and the have not’s. We rarely mixed but routinely thrashed them at football and the girls liked us better.
Free meals is about the children, not the parents. It should remain a universal benefit. Shame on anyone who would do otherwise.
I’m not sure i altogether agree with you unclebob its been the enemy within which has been scotlands greatest downfall.I’m sure wallace,Bruce ect would agree with me if it was possible.Brown,Darling,Murphy ect are modern day examples of the same problem.We are as a people fairly open and friendly and willing to help but we do have plenty in our country who are motivated by self interest only.
@boris
“and the girls liked us better”
Loved it, strange fact that eh!
@no no no …yes
Yea you heard it right, and did Andrew Kerr do his job, No he did not. Labour-Torie, one sheet of toilet paper shared between two.
Too crude?….NAH..
I’m still an Insturgeont…
Murphy’s Campaign is not aimed at Wingers.
Labour’s PR team know that everything they say and do will be taken to pieces on here and shown up to be trash.
But what is written on here does not reach the ears of Murphy’s target audience.
Murphy is after the politically illiterate; the elderly; the gullible; lifetime Labour voters looking for any excuse to vote Labour again and stick one to the hated SNP. Headlined by the BBC, the Record and Herald, Murphy’s message will do very well and will persuade many to vote Labour in GE15.
Advertising works, as does political advertising.
What is on here does not touch Murphy in any way.
I dearly wish it did.
@Morag 10.46pm
It’s about everybody sitting down to eat together. If some kids have their own packed lunches, then that can become a divisive thing too, as they sit in one place and exclaim over the bag of crisps or the cupcake, while others are in the dining hall eating prison food.
With regard to packed lunches, I have taught in nine schools and in only one of those did the children having packed lunches sit separately from the others, but that was just due to logistics and lack of available physical space. In most primary schools, the children all sit down to eat together in one lunch hall.
In terms of ‘banning’ packed lunches, that is really not something which we should be aiming to do in principle. Parents have the right to decide what to feed their children, even if some of us might disapprove of their choice. We are not food police. All we can do is provide the opportunity for eating healthy nutritious food and hope that they take us up on it. Also, some children may have specific dietary requirements.
I really must point out to people AGAIN that life in schools today is very different from what they may remember from the 1970s. Education professionals (and I include nursery nurses, classroom assistants, playground supervisors, etc in this) work very hard to ensure that children are treated fairly, inclusively and with kindness.
Scottish education is founded on the four values inscribed on the mace in the Scottish Parliament: wisdom, integrity, compassion and justice. Any teacher or other member of staff in a school who fails to uphold these values does not deserve to be there, and while I’m not claiming that all teachers are perfect, the overwhelming majority do embrace and try to implement those values.
@ liz, they’re building a very slick marketing profile around lucky Jim in the same way car and mobile phone makers do or say the way BP tries to kid everyone they’re an environmentally green outfit. People are being sold Murphy like any other product although the BBC in Scotland are probably not meant to be the cornerstone of it all. For one thing, you’ll never see Murphy lose it from now til May. If it works, they’ll be in charge of Scotland again before we know it. But polishing a turd is quite hard apparently:D
Alex Clark,
“I’ve always believed this was deliberate, as if the child was responsible for their own circumstances.”
Of course it would have been deliberate – to remind the plebs that they were plebs.
Nothing has changed. The unholy Tory-Labour Better Together alliance made sure that the plebs remain where they are.
MSM shills like Johnson are what they are. Paid lackeys.
Labour, on the other hand, are beyond even that contempt. As others have said – this party must be excised from Scotland once and for all.
@Natasha
I don’t believe anyone here is saying that the teachers were in any way to blame. People, including myself have talked of their own experience of free school meals as they were handled from the 1940’s through to the 1970’s.
It is obvious that for all that it was not a good experience, I was lucky compared to boris, at least I got a meal rather than the scraps from someone elses plate.
Those that read this webpage and particularly those that post are mostly of the same opinion. A fairer society.
This is also the goal of an Independent Scotland and those political parties and groups such as RIC that support said Independence. So we are all on the same side.
We just need to prove that now by voting SNP in May. After Independence change will happen by itself, it will be a new beginning and i for one will welcome that.
No more scraps from the table in our schools.
…or from Westminster.
Difficult to know how to tackle unbridled bias against SNP and building up of Ó Murchú in MSM
Suggestions
– Current polls show that confidence in the Scottish Government to look after Scottish interests – just focus on the common sense of Scottish people, and accept that demographics in Scotland dictate that socio economic and neo-colonial history will always deliver a portion of the vote in Scotland that is inimitable to the countries interests (we only need 5.5%. Labour have nothing for Scotland except that they are not the Tories – SNP can do that better.
– ridicule – but how to get it into the MSM who will moderate it?
– try not to focus on ÓM- but if you have to, slick Séamie’s dodgy Blairite past and right wing connections highlight his insincerity – I’m not that clued in, but could name 6 or 7 policy reversals
– pity
– humour
Probably humour is best, get the country laughing at them
Dave McEwan Hill,
“The Labour Party in Scotland has to be destroyed as a matter of urgency.”
We would first need to destroy the BBC and the Record.
I guess that at least half of the posters here are still paying the licence fee.
Rock says:
I guess that at least half of the posters here are still paying the licence fee.
Whit’s a licence fee … you mean a driving licence fee perchancity cause I’ver got wan o them, a driving licence I mean. 😀
I’m certainly pleased to see this policy introduced and hope that in time it can be extended to all school children both as an anti poverty measure and an opportunity to educate children about healthy eating to improve Scotland’s pretty abysmal health record.
Labours opposition to this is just their usual unimaginative SNP bad stance and one which I sincerely hope backfires on them.
I realise it’s the job of the opposition to hold the government to account and to point out flaws in policy but this just looks petty and mean spirited. A few minutes on Google brings up a plethora of articles on school meal provision in other nations and could have provided Labour with any number of angles to attack the policy from, such as higher, nutritional standards, supporting local producers, greater emphasis on food education as part of school meal policy. Who knows, it might have even led to a better policy than the one we have now. Instead the best they could come up with was but rich children might get a free dinner.
What a miserable, unimaginative and vindictive shower they are.
@ Rock am no paying the Licence Fee,ah got another Red Letter today about the 16th/17th nae court summons as yet,but they did say they would be back Arnold Swatsnigger style,they dont even knock on the door now ha ha.
Even a seasoned journalist like Kevin McKenna said on Derek Batemans broadcast to watch for some manufactured disagreement between Jim Murphy and Ed Milliband to prove how much Jim runs Scotland’s branch office.
Not sure the Telegraphs or Times headlines ( mansion tax to pay for nursing in Scotland) is what he was looking for…
I used to make myself packed lunches for school; my folks used to give me money for a hot lunch too, which I used to buy more records…
Betsy wrote:
“Instead the best they could come up with was but rich children might get a free dinner.”
Aye, Betsy, and that’s coming from folk who recently paid over £200 per head to attend a fancy dinner in Glasgow, right under the noses of one of Scotland’s largest concentrations of starving children.
Red Tory Traitors – Vote Them Out – Vote SNP.
Natasha, I went to a fee-paying school, and those of us with packed lunches had to sit in our form classrooms and eat them. We weren’t allowed in the dining room, where the little kids ate, and those not cool enough to have persuaded their parents that school dinners were cat-sick so you have to make me a packed lunch every evening thanks Mum.
We started a Whist group, with the cards one of our number who was on a diet brought in to play Patience while we ate. Much to the horror of the teacher who led the school Scripture Union group.
But even if the packed-lunch brigade are allowed to eat in the dining hall, it’s still going to be obvious these kids have packed lunches. Maybe even more so, because they’ll inevitably contain wee treats the parents of the free-lunch children couldn’t afford.
What I’m trying to say is that you can’t ban packed lunches, but you can make school lunch “normal” and if it’s tasty and free it becomes something that only a weirdo would pass up on. It’s a goal, anyway.
ronnie anderson,
“Rock am no paying the Licence Fee,ah got another Red Letter today about the 16th/17th nae court summons as yet,but they did say they would be back Arnold Swatsnigger style,they dont even knock on the door now ha ha.”
Stand up to them.
We need all of the 45% who voted Yes to stop paying it and watching their propaganda.
Morag, do you still pay the BBC licence fee?
In other nonsense press today, David Torrance (in his Herald column) has refused to apologise to Scotland in response to my polite poll tax article and instead has went into a long-winded and nonsensical waffle trying to skirt the issue…and block me on Twitter for printing the truth.
It really is amazing that despite the clear as day evidence, he is still in denial, it’s almost pitiful. Of course he doesn’t acknowledge the admission and apologies already in place from the current Prime Minister and the then Secretary of State for Scotland among others.
What is it with these people?
On the BBC licence, what’s needed is a refusal platform, whereby anyone incensed by other than the bias, which seems hard to prove, provides a reason for not supporting the BBC – eg., the cover up over many years of paedophiles associated with the BBC.
It seems a strange ‘Legal’ charge that if I own a TV receiver and confirm to the BBC Licencing Authority, that yes I do own a working TV receiver and I do watch live TV broadcasts, but never anything produced by the BBC, on principle – re., the ‘known about paedophile ring’ that operated within their premises and may still be operating yet for all we know, yet I am still ‘guilty’ because the stupid law says so.
We need a test case for this, but I very much doubt that the shameless BBC will expose itself to such a legal challenge since all the evidence is already there in the public domain. Perhaps, to start with, we should think about pursuing the BBC for using our contributions to pay paedophiles and demand it be paid back covering all of the time Jimmie Savile was in their employment?
Rock, I have only used my TV to play DVDs and (occasionally) listen to the radio since the end of September. Why would I be paying for a service I don’t want or use?
I saw about three minutes of Hogmanay Live, at a party in the village hall, when they projected it on the screen without any sound just to get the final countdown time. Even that glimpse of Jackie Bird was too much for me – and a few other people in the hall too, it turned out. I heard “bitch” and “("Tractor" - Ed)” being muttered.
And yet Murphy and his chums have no qualms about claiming tax payers money for expenses etc even though they are rich, should expenses for politicians be reserved only for those that can’t afford it?
The Labour Party in Holyrood voted against free school meals. 7/01 2014 and The Holy Murphy on BBC tonight well last night now told Andrew Kerr flat out they voted for them, now , lots of us know that on Wings but those who don’t keep up with SLABS lies don’t, but i also know that people who do research for our team will have seen this, so please, can we have our First Minister make a wee point of making a bloody big point of the Murphy lies on the same programme tonight
We are your Insturgeonts……..and goodnight
If we pay taxes rich or poor then we all get to benefit. We are a society. We are Scots.
There’s nothing hard to understand here, is there?
It’s not about “them and us”, it’s about all of “us”.
Actually, it’s amazing I got through New Year without having to fess up. I had my No-voting friend staying with me, and she’s an absolute TV addict and simply wouldn’t understand what I’ve done.
But a combination of going out to that party on Hogmanay evening, and successive marathons of Game of Thrones and then Dollhouse, completely blindsided her to the fact that no live TV was played for four freaking days solid while she was here!
Paul, that is a point that should be projected on the wall in foot-high letters picked out in fairy-lights.
@Natasha
It’s illuminating to hear from someone teaching P1-P3 kids, and I endorse everything you say.
I find it hard to express my level of disgust at SLAB’s line on this. It has all the hallmarks of Lamont’s ‘something for nothing society’ speech, SNP policy=bad and the Bain principle all rolled into one. Was Murphy not quoted in a recent (Daily Mail?) article as now being supportive of universal benefits?
I’ve noticed from speaking to younger SLAB voters/members – particularly those that came of age during the Blair/Brown years – that they have completely swallowed the neo-liberal agenda hook, line & sinker. ‘Universal benefits’ (the return that society gets is in the second word) is simply anathema. Everything is now viewed through the prism of targeting, means-testing & the now frequent assertion that it’s the ‘rich’ that benefit most (cf. free university education).
Remember the truism : you are what you eat.
Barontorc, you don’t need an excuse not to need a TV licence. You just don’t watch or record live TV. I’m astounded by how easy it is.
It’s my choice and I’m happy with it, and I see no need to reorganise the hardware I already have because it allows me to use the TV receiver to listen to the radio (before Alba kills it in the evening) when the FM signal is crap. Which is quite often.
And I don’t need anybody’s permission and I don’t need to give them a reason, but I don’t mind telling them that I’ve been so sickened by the way the BBC robbed my country of its freedom that I’ve pretty much developed a phobia against the goggle-box.
Of course if you are watching live TV without a licence, then let me know how that works out for you.
Vaguely O/T
There have been a few mentions of Carolyn Leckie.. The National started off by giving a platform to a few prominent Yessers. Most of them have turned out to be fairly useless columnists, but Carolyn’s a real star.
I’m miles away from her on the political spectrum, but what she writes is always well-argued, non-partisan, and full of integrity. I really hope she gets a seat in 2016, and continues to write as well as she does.
Re free school meals for every child irrespective of class etc !!!!!! Its a fantastic idea and truly reflects the very essence of positivity and fairness at the heart of SNP policy ……the red tories can’t welcome this brilliant news for our children ..it must be a right slap on their kissers as they watch Scotlands party putting policies into effect and know that thats what they should have done ..if they truly cared for scotland and its people they would finally learn that uniting with the Pro indy parties is the way to go…but naw ..they cannae leave the union because they are only concerned about their big pay cheques and neo liberal ways …awe too bizzy fighting for the crumbs from the union table …while the SNP are actually out there doing the right thing for us all ..nae worries though as that lot are blowing oot their ain fuse .
@ Ronnie anderson 12:39
am no paying the Licence Fee,ah got another Red Letter today about the 16th/17th nae court summons as yet,but they did say they would be back Arnold Swatsnigger style,they dont even knock on the door now ha ha.
Me too. I haven’t had a licence (nor a TV) for decades. but they must be having a bit of a campaign in Scotland just now, possibly related to the referendum. More money for Capita or whoever it is has the contract.
I only wish there was something worth watching. When we do get independence, I will gladly subscribe to a channel producing quality Scottish broadcasts.
Just when you thought 1000 more nurses was the stupidest thing you’d heard all day…
Roll on May.
We have to realise that all these lies and anti snp smears are for the 55% who don’t go online and generally don’t show an interest in politics.I am nightshift tonight and constantly question workmates about politics .A few yessers show interest but the majority are not the slightest bit interested Murphy could have said 10000 and they wouldn’t have noticed.We can’t make the same mistake again and end up talking to ourselves.
It is entirely possible that the weakest of the UK banks, (the Co-op) could fail. The City might not be keen on taking on the losses of a mutual company. This would place the UK government in a difficult place since a taxpayer bail-out would in effect be a Nationalisation. But there is no precedence for government to act.
The Co-op finance at least 180 MP’s and many 1000’s of Councillors and provide significant financial preferential loans to the Labour Party. Such a bail-out would be challenged through the courts since a political Party would then be financed by the state.
It might be the Co-op would be persuaded to give up it’s share of the Bank to the City but the effect would be catastrophic for the MP’s, Councillors, and the Labour Party. The City takes no prisoners and might call in the loans. An interesting scenario.
More in the article
link to caltonjock.com
Simon Johnson is a gumbie.
@ Morag
At the risk of being flamed Im afraid I disagree. Taxation is theft.
I am happy to provide pensions, health care, schools and a host of public services. However I disapprove strongly of paying for pointless wars, upkeep of Royal Families, large salaries for the office wallahs (who fire teaching staff to save money in departments where their own salaries are the highest cost ) in all public bodies. I object to bailing out bankers, I don’t wish to pay extra to feed the MP’s I am giving wages to. I don’t think landlord subsidies are the best possible form of housing provision. This list is not exhaustive.
I am happy to pay taxes for a good cohesive inclusive egalitarian society. But if all I do is redistribute wealth from workers to rent seekers then I don’t want to pay those taxes at all.
And thats before we get to the telly tax – to pay for channels I don’t watch delivered by people on huge salaries.
What problem do the Red Tories have with universal benefits? Surely if the rich actually pay the taxes, there is no need to charge them twice? (and stigmatise the poor at the same time). How would the pensioners feel if they were told no more bus passes unless they could prove they were destitute? What about the NHS – do the rich tax payers not deserve to use that service?
And all this nonsense about how the money could have been used to fund extra teachers/class time etc. What use is better funded education if the kids are starving? (and some of them are).
I’m having shreddies for my breakfast whilst Gary Robertson is having Willie Rennie for his.
Willie Rennie claiming “the Lib Dems led the way in delivering home Rule for the Scottish Parliament”. I must still be dreaming because nothings been implemented much less ‘home rule’. He is simply lying.
Gary Robertson on pretty guid form- it fair confuses me when a unionist politician gets a grilling. I am sure it must be confusing for Rennie also.
I think the dummies at Labour HQ have cottoned on to the pitfalls of offering £1 membership. I just got an email survey from them asking if I would vote for them this year. The allowed answers were yes, maybe or no because I support another party.
I wonder how many other parties have to ask their membership who they are voting for.
SNP: say free meals for all. Do free meals for all.
Tories: free meals for the rich, the poor to cook them for no pay.
Labour: Free meals for the poor only, in reality money disappears into the pockets of Labour MPs pre Lordship.
Labour against feeding children, where did it all go so wrong? Hope we never see the need for soup kitchens.
Many people were interested enough to vote for a landslide SNP victory at Holyrood. They could be interested enough to vote SNP to hold Westminster to account for to the full fiscal autonomy Scotland was promised. Including getting rid of Trident and no more illegal wars etc. People are sick of it. Stop sanctioning the vulnerable and food banks. It is just despicable.
Elderly English voters may not vote YES but they will vote SNP. There is a precedent. Holyrood. At least with an SNP Government/MP’s people know what Westminster is doing. Less secrecy and lies.
Dugdale, Davidson and Rennie are all unelected. No wonder.
@Kevin meina
I think the size of the foot army in SNP jackets hitting doors soon won’t allow them to forget things such as this. That’s my hope now anyway!
I agree with Morag’s comment at 5 January, 2015 at 9:08 pm.
I listen all the time these politicians or the wealthy who come on the TV or in the newspaper and say I am wealthy I don’t need a bus pass, or winter fuel allowance or some other universal benefit, giv eit to people who need it.
It’s to deflect you away from them tax avoiding and evading.
CRAIGthePICT
Come on Craig – why can’t you get your head around David Torrance’s position. The Conservatives wanted to implement the poll tax in Scotland first not as we were guinea pigs in some kind of a test but simply to blaze a trail for the rest of the UK!
God bless all animals currently having medicines and cosmetics tested on them -maybe if we think of them as trailblazers that would make it nicer.
Dinnae haud yer breath waiting for an apology from David. Did he no right a buik on George Younger? He must know better than the rest of us mortals the motivation. If I live another 1000 years I might get round to reading a copy.
David takes a position (his worldview) and forms everything else around it – it is impossible for him therefore to simply admit he was wrong- instead he has to go through these twists and turns of sophistry trying get to wriggle out of the truth.
Westminster gets 50% of all NS Oil production + the tax. 50% + 30% = 80%+ Some fields up to 90% (different tax regimes) Plus all the other associated taxes. Corp tax on profits, NI , income tax.
Scotland has to pay for Trident, even though the majority do no want it based there, or have to pay for it.
Illegal wars have cost £Billions and displaced people for the last 100 years and people have migrated to Europe. Westminster engage in illegal war causing migration, and then complain about immigrants.
To paraphrase Neil Diamond….
Lunch is not about You and Me
Lunch is all about We!
Tam Jardine,
The world is a confusing place if you are willie rennie. I remember him on national TV not being able to differentiate between government debt and personal debt. Very embarrassing.
@ Tam Jardine
Its quite simple really.
As a politician or person with influence, your actions/decisions either cause harm or benefit those in your charge. If the policies you enact cause so much harm that generations remember those decisions and their wider effects, then regardless of Torrance’s world view, sophistry, twists, spin or, let’s face it, complete and utter bullshittery, then he’s wrong with knobs on.
Same goes for any politician and their pet commentators. I don’t think the folk who still support Scottish self governance require their aid in determining whether the turd smells better or worse after polishing. 🙂
I see there is a new petition on 38 degrees to abolish the scottish parliament.
LOL
Im trying to stop using the word ‘free’ when referring to prescriptions , tuition fees and so on. But also to politely correct others by gently reminding them that through taxes these things are paid for not ‘free’.
i think we should play the neo -cons at their own game and the language we use on a day to day basis should reflect our values and belief in universalism. This is one of my new years resolutions I am no longer willing to tolerate this propaganda.
Excellent reading recommendation from Morag – the Robin McAlpine 2012 piece outlining the war-like strategy against the welfare state should be re-printed in full page ad in run up to May election . Crowd fund anyone?
The petition I see there ScottieDog has been there for a while, looking a some of the comments you still see that cognitive dissonance is alive and yelping
It was unelected Rothschild who devised the Poll Tax. Unelected Lord Balfour and Lord Rothschild who devised the Balfour Declaration 1917. Unelected Lords (who bought peerages) are deciding Westminster Gov policies. Westminster corruption, secrecy and lies.
Macart
Indeed. Wierd thing is, under the labour proposition that a vote for the SNP helps the tories get back in, surely Torrance as a tory would be desperate for the SNP to be win big here?
Yet it is particularly the right wing press that is currently broadcasting labour’s absurd tribal agenda, to the extent that they amplify Iain Gray’s crass, nasty smear game. It’s almost as if the Tories don’t want the SNP to do well at the expense of labour?
Maybe David’s extensive political insight could be brought to bear on this strange contradiction?
OT Another day another NHS Scare story.
Tell lies often enough and folk will believe it as the truth, We saw that last year!
How long before Westminster forcibly take control of the NHS Scotland based on these continual smears?
Tam
Hah, Torrance would break out in hives. 😀
No secret to the press or the political agenda. The Rev touched on the subject only the other day. That being the press water testing of the Tory/Labour coalition theory. They are terrified of what they’ve done to the Scottish electorate during the referendum campaign and the fallout effects of polarising opinion.
Their win wasn’t big enough, their enemy neither humiliated or crushed. In fact what they wound up with was half a country fair beelin’ at how they’d been treated and refusing to get back in their box. The other shoe just might well drop in May and they know it, so off they go into full baby and bathwater mode. Left (hah) and right wing press still beating the referendum drum to beat the ‘insurgents’ down. The thought that the third biggest UK party by membership might hold the balance of power in the commons and force concessions for their own electorate has them shaking in their boots and hitting the panic button.
Well they wanted us to be part of their union, they can hardly complain if we take them at their word and participate wholeheartedly can they? Surely they’re looking for a partner who now will take a very active interest in how their contribution is handled? 😉
Universal free school meals – a very good idea. It is simply astonishing that Labour opposed it. What is not astonishing, is that Jim Murphy last might lied on national TV, by stating that Labour voted for free school meals (they actually voted against it).
Labour liars who simply cannot believe the nature of their own policies and votes in parliament.
I grew up in an environment, where I had free school meals, due to being poor. In my school however, people such as myself had different coloured tickets to hand in, and YES this was ridiculed by the other kids.
Making meals universally free removes stigma, and also stores up long term benefits in our children’s future health, by providing good nutrition on a daily basis.
Simple perplexed by Labour opposing it.
The end of universal benefits is all about divide and conquer. It suits labour for you have them & us and keeping the poor poor has been their method of operation in Glasgow for years. Having social mobility often means electoral mobility and that has to be discouraged.
For the tories having means tested benefits is a great wheeze.
Firstly the uptake of means tested benefits is much lower, secondly you separate your natural voters from the system so why should they support it. As a further benefit once separated they don’t see of feel how the system is administered, so you can degrade the system and its recipients as much as you like. With the savings you can buy the votes of the deserving rich.
You must note all the benefits are self centred party centric and have nothing to do with the welfare and growth of the country. Its what happens when you have a two party system filled with career politicians, including generational hirelings. We see that with the Bhutto’s (and see corruption) and yet we are accepting are own as normal.
I read some of the comments on that article and quite similar to the Scotsman (stating the obvious for most readers of wings). Anyway, I had a wikipedia moment and thought how appropriate this entry was (from entry on Bourgeoisie):
the businessman son, Thomas, who assumes command of the Buddenbrook family fortune, occasionally falters from middle-class solidity by being interested in art and philosophy, the impractical life of the mind, which, to the bourgeoisie, is the epitome of social, moral, and material decadence.
Also interesting the number of references to fascism enrolling the materialistic bourgeoisie…
Tam Jardine @ 8.22am, I also find it shocking when a unionist is questioned further than the first ‘welcome mat’ question.
I am generally listening whilst angrily asking my own pertinent questions, or generally swearing, so it requires me to shut up!
Murphy is a dupitious liar, trouble causer and conman. He brings Scotland into disrepute. The sooner he goes the better.
Re free skool meals
On Arran we had different coloured tickets, i used to buy free meal tickets from a classmate who was eligble for them but used to go home for lunch.
The savings on the retail price enabled me to purchase more sweets from the nearby tuck shop.
There was no stigma on Arran regarding poverty looking back the vast majority would be classified as being in poverty these days.
People with cancer are living longer.
So Labour (in scotland at least) seem to oppose universal free school meals to all P1s to P3s despite the obvious health, nutritional and educational benefits (and goodeness knows Scotland needs all three).
I do hope Nicola will pin them down at FMQs this week and get it on record that they don’t support this Scottish Government policy – I am sure that will be a vote winner for Labour.
I have yet to hear or see anyone who is more duplicious than Jim Murphy, who I consider to have more faces than a Rubik cube. In all honesty who can take him seriously. He reminds me of the film Walter Mitty,in which the main character inhabited a fantsy world in his own head,. I honestly cannot believe that on other sites entrenched Labourites actually support him.I even rcall a Smithy on this site with such a view. The world gets ever more confusing
@Ken500, Ken, Balfour was certainly elected if you can call the very restricted franchise then as an election. I think he was off the Balfour’s who cleared Strathconnon. He certainly opposed Irish Home Rule, imported Chinese slave-labour, was possibly a sado-massochist and suspected of being a hermaphrodite or what was known in Glesga as a Jenny Willox.
Altogether a typical Tory toff,do they ever change? more on here,
link to en.wikipedia.org
And by the way, just because taxes are used to pay for things we personally don’t want, doesn’t make them theft.
Taxation is the basis of a stable society, providing funds for an enormous amount of thigs we’d all be pretty badly off without. Like roads. It’s also legal. It’s the very definition of legal, given the amount of legislation surrounding it. It’s not theft, which is a crime.
The way to address tax money being spent on things you disapprove of is to vote in a government who will allocate the spending in the way you prefer. And if your fellow-citizens don’t agree and vote to continue throwing cash at Trident, then that’s very sad, but it’s still not theft, it’s democracy.
I came across this particular subject when this was first raised on the pages of all things, The Guardian. Some woman was so against the children of the wealthy getting free school meals. Her kids had got them when her marriage broke up but the was damned if anyone else should, certainly not these middle class folk with mortgages to pay. As I pointed out to her some of those so called middle class folk with mortgages to pay came out of Council Housing, that there had been nothing for it but to take one out and struggle because there was no Social Housing available.
I was lucky, my folks managed to pay for my dinners at school but like many here we all knew kids who were on free school meals. It never occurred to us to taunt people, but for the grace of god go I was more the reasoning. I went to a very mixed school in Portobello which covered the tenements in Kings Road to the Bungalows in Joppa, I was a tenement kid, but even where I lived we had those who were on the bread line. Now listening to the weasel words of the Labour Party and watching the way things are going in England with our beloved media. I would much prefer we have social inclusion than the way things are going. Kids pick up on parents attitudes.
boris—mansion tax
The mayor added: “Labour created [the] MONSTER of Scottish nationalism, which almost led to the break-up of our country last year. What’s happened now is Labour has made a cynical calculation that they are more vulnerable in Scotland to the SNP than they are in the south-east or London. They have decided to be fiscally vindictive towards the south-east of England in order to try to bribe the Scots to vote Labour.”
BetterTogether BoJo very angry at “monsters” in their Scotland today link to archive.today
“The mayor added: “Labour created [the] monster of Scottish nationalism, which almost led to the break-up of our country last year. What’s happened now is Labour has made a cynical calculation that they are more vulnerable in Scotland to the SNP than they are in the south-east or London. They have decided to be fiscally vindictive towards the south-east of England in order to try to bribe the Scots to vote Labour.”
TeamGB, land of hope and glory and tory boys.
Elaine Fraser with regard to Free Prescriptions, I too have endeavoured not to use this term. We should actually stop using the term “Free” anything. We the Tax payer pay, we pay at source. I used to get very upset with the manager in the department of the NHS I worked in for her use of “Free”. We have all paid at one time or another for these things. Many of us pensioners still do, okay not with hypothecated taxes but with general Income Tax.
We, the people of Scotland I would hope are happy with that because if we wanted to return to how things were, well we would have voted for it in 2011.
Murphy lies constantly. There really is something worrying about him, I cannot quite place. Maybe its his complete lack of any apparent principles and insincerity.
Nothing really to add except the compassion and care shown towards others by the posters here brings a very real tear to the eye.
Thanks to you all for reaffirming my faith in humanity
Lord Balfour – not elected by Universal suffrage.
Rothschild responsible for the Poll Tax -unelected.
Mr Murphy only thinks about one thing.
Himself.
I have trouble on occasion defining middle class in terms of housing and income. My own daughter has worked her way up the housing market and now lives in a nice home with her family.It has taken enormous effort and hard work She is neither well off nor envisages herself as anything other than a girl from a working class background.
I suppose to the onlooker she may seem comfortable,but she like many others constantly struggle to maintain a lifestyle which benefits her children. I suppose ultimately appearances can be deceptive,and that someone who may have accumulated certain trapplngs of lifestyle may not seem to need any help that comes from the state. In fact the opposite is true. She may well benefit in future, but for now she lives up to her means. and would not find any help unwelcome.
In Scotland, about half of the Community Charge collected by local authorities is spent on schools.
The wealthiest residents of course don’t take advantage of this benefit because they spend even more money sending their kids to private schools.
The wealthiest people with children then, finance their child’s education at least twice over, and probably even more than that due to the higher costs of administering a private school.
All children who receive “free” meals at state run schools are effectively subsidised to some extent by the wealthiest since the wealthiest don’t consume the state school services they have already paid for.
Been trying all morning to get last nights ‘Scotland 2015’ on the BBC iplayer but it would appear that BBC Scotland has not made it available.
This seems very suspicious!
Are they now trying to limit the amount of complaints going in to London HQ?
Bit of a coincidence, is it not, that they had Murphy on it yet again last night, and going by what i’ve read so far he was allowed to lie, YET AGAIN, without being challenged.
Can others out there see if they can find it, just in case they have changed the system and there is something i’m not doing?
It is also interesting to note that when you do go into the BBC Scotland iplayer site there is no ‘politics’ category – mind you, that’s not a new observation, it was the same last year.
The programme was on BBC 2 Scotland and is named ‘Scotland 2015’ and would have started somewhere between 10.40pm and 11.40pm.
Its there alright stoker
maybe they just put it up ,but I found it right away.
muttley79 says:
6 January, 2015 at 11:31 am
Murphy lies constantly. There really is something worrying about him, I cannot quite place. Maybe its his complete lack of any apparent principles and insincerity.
Or the fact that, owing to MSM compliance, he has always gotten away with it.
I think another PQ protest is called for, just make sure these people are aware we have not gone away and we wont stop until they do what we (well some of us) pay them for.
@ Morag 10D pie & glass of orange juice.
I bid up with two coarse lunch in Hamiltons resturant every Frid with a glass of Vimpto 1/6d.
Free school meals for all, kills the playground Entrepreneurial skills of children both of the buyer & seller,ah memories are made of this.
I used to spend my dinner money on fags (10 No 6). my Mom used to wonder why I was “starving” when I came home at 4 o’clock, my Dad knew of course but said nothing.
So attack 18th Sept 2014 Scottish democracy and independence for creating a terrible terrible non existent division on our tiny ickle wickle island of teamGB, then try and create/exploit division of teamGB for your own route to red tory boy greatness.
Well played Slab, well played indeed.
john king says:
“Its there alright stoker
maybe they just put it up ,but I found it right away.”
Cheers, John, but the Rev has linked to it on todays new article.
I couldn’t find it at all and the only difference i made to my usual search wording was changing the year from 2014 to 2015.
No-matter what i typed and searched for i only got episodes from
the back end of 2014 and various BBC news stories. Unless it was right in front of me and i couldn’t see it for looking at it.
Thanks for checking anyhoo, cheers!
05.01.15 – BBC2 Scotland @ 10.30pm – Scotland 2015:
Stephen McGinty, Scotsman Journalist, was a guest on this edition of the programme. He was there to give his opinion on the falling oil prices, the Chad Evans rape case and offensive comments on social media.
McGinty went on to state, re: social media:
“We must be allowed to live in a society where we can make offensive comments.” and “We live in a society where people are entitled to make obnoxious comments.”
McGinty also stated the warning recently issued by Police Scotland, that offensive comments will be investigated, made him feel “rather uncomfortable.”
McGinty was giving his opinion whilst being shown a piece from Alex Massie writing for The Spectator stating – “SCOTLAND: No Country for Free Speech.”
Now, that’s all very well and good that people such as McGinty hold those opinions, while sitting in the comfort of a BBC studio in front of presenter Andrew Kerr, who repeatedly fails to appropriately challenge and correct programme guests.
Any presenter worth his salt would have asked McGinty why then does he continue to work for a publication – ‘The Scotsman’ – which regularly fails to open certain online articles for comment?
Any presenter and investigative political programme worth its salt would then follow that by asking McGinty why ‘The Scotsman’ routinely allowed references to sectarianism, bigotry and paedophilia – just so certain individuals could point score against each other – but others were blocked off the site if they dared to retaliate?
Any presenter worth his salt could also have put it to McGinty that if that was the case and people should be allowed to basically say whatever they liked, why does ‘The Scotsman’ prevent people from saying the word “Sevco” which is a perfectly legitimate business word?
Oh the stench of journalistic hypocrisy is suffocating.
Free speech indeed, Mr.McGinty!
Just watched Jim Murphy interviewing Andrew Kerr on Scotland 2015 last night.
Is this really the best the BBC can do in forensic interviewing skills?
Suggest bring back Bill and Ben the Flowerpot Men and Weed who made more sense.
@ Footsoldier,
My thoughts exactly, Murphy has a habit of dominating interviews and more often than not we witness the impotent presenter meekly back down first to allow Murphy to continue with his broadcast.
_______________
From the very same programme on Day 1 of the 2015 GE campaign:
“The first in a series of leader interviews” starts with JM.
“Interview” starts at 9m into programme and lasts for 6m 45s.
Unchallenged quotes from Murphy:
“The SNP say vote SNP you get a Labour government”
“I want rid of nuclear weapons and its a debate about how you do it, i want the minimum credible nuclear deterrent and we should negotiate that away with all the other nuclear powers all across the world”
“We’re going to change clause four”
And on the issue of free school meals for Primary 1-3 kids:
“Well ultimately when it came to a vote, a final vote in the Scottish Parliament, we voted in favour of the proposals and they went through the Scottish Parliament”
He goes on to repeat this again approximately 30 seconds later:
“but we voted in the Scottish Parliament for the proposals when they were finally put”
“we’re not going to reverse that policy but we supported it in the Scottish Parliament when it was going through its final stages so”
“Ian and i have the same view, we supported it going through the Scottish Parliament and we wouldn’t reverse that policy”
The above repeated quotes were in response to the presenter pushing Murphy on whether or not he now supports the idea of free school meals for primary age children.
@Morag says: 5 January, 2015 at 9:08 pm:
“Universality is an extraordinarily important concept which is being sidelined by all these calls to deprive “the rich” of the normal benefits of a society they have paid a lot of tax into.”
Well, Morag, there is at least one other view on that particular matter. Since the Westminster Establishment of multi-coloured Tories changed the main burden of taxation from direct, (on income & wealth), to indirect, (on goods and services), then the stark facts are that the poorest 15% of the population now provide the largest proportion of the tax burden while the richest 15% provide the least.
Besides which, as the main tax take is levied upon such as VAT, Council Tax, Road Fuel Duty, Alcohol Duty, Betting Tax, Tobacco Duty and all main provided Services, then these taxes also increase the basic cost of living.
Now consider that the fairest apportioning of the tax burden is properly based upon taxing that portion of personal income that is classed as disposable income. (i.e. That portion of personal income that remaining after deduction of mandatory tax charges and that is available to be spent, or saved, as one wishes).
Mandatory tax should be based only upon such things as Council Tax and Social Security Stamps with a basic sum set as exempt to cover the basic essentials of life. It is utter madness for the government to pay benefits to people in work to bring them above subsistence and starvation levels only to then tax that same basic subsistence by indirect taxation. For it is mainly upon bare essentials the underpaid workers must spend that benefit upon.
It is just a none too opaque ploy to seem to be subsidising the poor while actually subsidising the rich and the same goes for Housing Benefits where the poor are charged higher rents and thus the benefit they are supposed to receive is actually used to subsidising their rich exploitive landlords. Meanwhile those same rich people end up with their poor workers benefits and can afford the very best of everything from the health care they are privatising in order to further deprive the poor, to the cost of home heating and even food. It costs just as much to heat a rich person’s room as it does to heat a poor persons room. The potato on the rich person’s plate costs no more than that upon a food bank users plate. Thus the rich have continued to get even more disproportionately richer.
How in the name of God can we be in deep austerity when the statistics show the rich continue to get even richer and the gap between the rich & poor continued to widen? Those figure show it is a transference of cash from the poor to the rich. Watch the sums bid for such things as works of art, country homes and town houses. In the UK it is only the poorer folks who are all in it together.
@Brian Powell says: 5 January, 2015 at 9:42 pm:
” … Would parents need to tell the school what they earn? What if a parent becomes unemployed, do they need to inform the school, then would there be a time when the parents goes from solvent to not so solvent, then not solvent? Then the child would qualify.”
There, Brian, you hit the nail on the head and expose the real Rainbow Tory Alliance Master Plan. They want to means test just about everything. The Council Tax, School Meals, (Schools even), Prescription Charges, Bus Passes, Food Bank Use, Home Care, Bedrooms, Health Care, Dental Care, Sight Tests, Disabled Parking Places and permits. – et al.
Now the first thing that all this means testing requires is a government, or council, department to assess who needs, and who does not need, the services. Then there must be another set of departments to police the many means tested schemes and prevent abuses of the systems. Of course there must also be a new set of legal departments to bring the abusers to justice. Followed by an increase in prison places and prison staff to operate the corrective establishments that deal with miscreants who don’t pay the fines, (and a department to levy and collect the fines).
All of which must certainly push up employment. Then by only allowing the new jobs to be on Zero Hours Contract they will create more poverty and the spiral of more jobs, more poverty, more miscreants will make the whole system self sustaining. Now that’s what you call political thinking.
O.k! O.k!
I’ll get ma jaikit aff the shooglie caddle ahint the door!
Surely those who would benefit would benefit by the same amount. Am I missing something here?
Have come late to this, trying to catch up with threads, but the following may be of interest to some, and the full Wikipedia entry is at:
link to en.wikipedia.org:
‘Frances Curran MSP led a campaign which included children’s and anti-poverty organisations for the provision of free and nutritious meals for all to tackle the problems of poor diet and rising obesity amongst children…This claimed to be able to eradicate the stigma associated with the current means-tested system and also ensure that meals provided in school conformed to minimal nutritional standards.
A bill to this effect was proposed in parliament in 2002, but was defeated. However, a subsequent Scottish Executive consultation found that 96% of respondents were in favour of free school meals. A redrafted bill was launched in October 2006 and was resubmitted to the parliament, but it was announced in November 2006 that this bill would not be taken in that session of parliament due to time pressures. Frances Curran had pledged that the SSP would resubmit its bill early in the next session of parliament and announced a text service for supporters to text Jack McConnell to demonstrate their support for the free school meals bill…However, the SSP’s exit from parliament at the 2007 election prevented this.
Under pressure from the SSP and the wider campaign, the Scottish National Party introduced free school meals as a pilot scheme for a small number of primary school pupils in selected local authorities and have announced that there will be free school meals for Primary 1-3 children from 2010, however have not backed the wholesale change that the SSP proposed.’
Well said Ian.
Credit for a socially inclusive policy now adopted in Scotland should go to Frances Curran of the SSP who proposed it in the first place.
I never knew that either, now I do.
Haven’t managed to read all the comments yet. Morag, 5.1.2015 at 9.08pm: Yes! Spot on!
I have four things to say.
1. Please never presume that the children of wealthier parents are necessarily well cared for let alone properly fed.
2. All children enjoying a meal together at school, without any kind of differentiation, should hopefully remove the possibility of being stigmatized, and engender togetherness.
3. As with free prescriptions, the admin around who should get and who shouldn’t probably costs more than making this a universal ‘benefit’.
4. Either you believe in equality or you don’t.
Morag, here here. I had Free School Meals in the 60s and I remember going to the teacher every Monday for my tickets. I hated it, feeling like I was different and no kid likes that.