Wings Over Scotland

Excellent.

Explains shift in his position very clearly.

The Gordon Brown clip made me very angry, again!

Two excellent videos. Great hearing what these guys think.

These are thinking people and I commend them both heartily for being willing to change their minds as events meant things changed from what they had expected. That’s smart, so well done folks.

Well put-together films again too, so congrats to Phantom Power.

I thought one point made in the second video was right on the mark. People do have to be open to considering change. You can have the best argument in the world but if people are stonewalling you, it will be to no effect.

What’s going to be interesting (and maybe even exciting) is seeing how may staunch people on either side (though hopefully more previous No voters, obviously!) have become more receptive. It’s that that will make all the difference.

In an indyref2 campaign, the first video in particular would make a powerful Yes broadcast.

Stonking. So many quotes to lift from these two guys.

Huge thanks.

Daniel:

“In terms of the 2014 referendum, the YES side couldn’t have done much more than they did. If people are not there, willing to be convinced, then it doesn’t matter what you say, frankly…”

There you have it, straight from the mouth of a NO voter. I hope this, finally, shuts up all those moaners who keep harping on about where we went wrong in 2014. We didn’t.

IMO the first YES campaign was excellent. Scotland wasn’t quite ready to jump. A bridge too far, but a bridge we almost crossed, in spite of everything. Can lessons be learned? Of course, but compared to BT it was a bloody good campaign. As Daniel said, everything has changed since 2014. Scotland is still no ready, but is seriously thinking of going for it this time. I don’t think there will be so much hesitation next time.

Andrew Morton says:

In an indyref2 campaign, the first video in particular would make a powerful Yes broadcast.

Indeed. The challenge will be reaching the target soft NO voters with it (and other stories) – the MSM won’t touch it. Something like a Wee DVD to distribute/hand out (or cinema adds et)?

There ain’t nothing like the personal touch, somehow we have to reach people with these accounts.

Thinking cap on.:)

excellent message

It is definitely time for the Kingdom to become UNTIED.

It is also worth noting that that this is a one-way street. The chances of a YES voter from IndyRef1 changing to NO in IndyRef2 are slim-to-none so the only way truly is UP.

Excellent!!

Welcome all ex No voters and any wavering unsures out there.

The ticker on Sky News just reporting that inflation rose again last month due to higher petrol/deisel prices, and food prices not falling as much as expected.

I’m sure the likes of David Davis,Theresa May and Liam Fox will be frightfully worried about their squeezed Brexit induced household budgets.

Well done to both gentlemen, welcome aboard.

Come and join us in our fight for a better independent Scotland.

That first video from Dundee, edited to the usual 3minute slot for a PPB would be a clincher. I would add that we could do with another one from a French or German perspective.

So often it takes outsiders to convince us that we can do this and be welcomed by the international community. The difference between the Republic of Ireland and Scotland is that they already stand proud in the international community. We need to learn to do that.

A great idea to make films about those who have moved from No to Yes. I remember getting contact lenses for the first time when I was 17. I needed them but had not realised how much – had not known what it meant to really see clearly. The moment when vision is restored is well worth capturing for the energy it releases – and the longer one has been in the dark the greater the effect.

Saw a post in an earlier thread saying YES2, whatever it’s called, should concentrate on 5 areas of attack/defence. Not sure that’s a good idea based on this link to en.wikipedia.org

For this kind of debate you need to be able to shift your defence and attack at will. You also need to persuade as many of all creeds, colours and ages as possible or you’ll be accused of neglecting some of the others. Never take for granted the support of any of your current voters or you’ll end up in the same state as Scottish Labour.

If we’re in the business of stealing slogans then perhaps “As One” is a far better choice. Especially given the tartan and shortbread image of the clan system and it’s basis in truth that there’s a celtic tradition of fighting amongst ourselves but uniting when it counts. Not for us the burying our individuality and differences in order to pretend we’re one big happy family. And it might be worth mentioning that lowlanders adopted tartan during the ’45 so it’s got a history of being a sign of rebellion or simply being scottish. It’s banning wasn’t just an act of suppression against the clans. It was against all of Scotland.

Lovely videos.

Margaret Ferrier MP has set up a petition to remove the 4% charge for receipt of Child Maintenance.

link to petition.parliament.uk

Wow. Thank you.

That was truly uplifting = )

Onwards folks = )

Luigi @ 10:27

I hope this, finally, shuts up all those moaners who keep harping on about where we went wrong in 2014. We didn’t.

I disagree.

I think the Yes campaign was a wonderful, grass-roots explosion of political interest and, ultimately, dreaming about what our country could look like. Unfortunately, I believe the biggest mistake that was made was to boil those possibilities into a message of how the SNP would make the country look. In the end, I reckon this turned a lot of people off because they didn’t like this or that policy (or flat-out didn’t like the SNP or Alex Salmond) and, thus, didn’t find independence to their liking on that particular point.

Much of this shove was, of course, to do with the presentation of the arguments in the mainstream media.

But I also think the Yes campaign ended up being much too prescriptive with regard to policy, and a lot of people ended up taking the bait. I think the next campaign should focus on what democracy could look like, what our NHS could look like, what a Scottish Defence could look like, what our education system could look like, what our currency options could be. Especial consideration should arguably also be given to the democratic situation we have with Westminster, and that Scotland is both politically and socially divergent from what’s going to happen there (namely, Conservative governance and the austerity agenda for probably another decade at least).

Our relationship with Europe should, likewise, be sold as an option; not a necessary by-product. It’s a powerful argument for some people, but not for everyone, so make the argument one about our relationship with Europe being dictated to us rather than being our own choice.

Sadly, I also happen to think we went wrong by not forseeing that an 11th hour intervention is likely. Better Together was a calamitous campaign, but the release of Gordon Brown with an official looking document in his hand came at a time when the Yes movement didn’t have the opportunity to properly react to it.

Just my thoughts.

Great stuff! Meanwhile back in Aberdeen, giant St Valentine’s Day Press and Journal boosterising for SLabour council electioneering this morn.

SLabour currently pissing away hundreds of millions of pounds on their latest white elephants, scarring Aberdeen for another British generation, banning the Saltire from Aberdeen , we know the Wullie Young drill…

Labour group fire starting pistol on council campaigns
by JON HEBDITCHFebruary 14, 2017, 7:54 am

William Young Retweeted
Aberdeen Labour ?@AberdeenLabour 1h1 hour ago
More
Our city has a bright future with Aberdeen Labour. Let’s make It happen, together

@Liz_g

‘Scotland is a way of life’

May just thieve that line. 😀

Straight forward and sensible. Great to watch.

Excellent videos and comments,

Just waiting on the ” Project Fear 2 ” doom and gloom yada yada . I say keep on with a true belief and positivity, and heres hoping the EU backs and supports our right to self govern.

heedtracker says:

14 February, 2017 at 11:31 am

I can’t wait to give those charlatans a good kicking in May. For all the damage they have done.

RED TORIES OUT

Christopher Whyte says:

I also happen to think we went wrong by not forseeing that an 11th hour intervention is likely.

I was told early summer 2014 by someone in a position to know, that Cameron intended to make a DevoMax offer if there was a chance of him losing.

It would surprise me very much if the SNP leadership also weren’t aware of this.

My initial reaction months before the vote was hey-ho, not quite what I want, but it is a consolation prize which would get widespread backing. However, by September it was becoming clear that they had lied so much, that anything they said or offered was probably a con.

The problem is that for 10%, maybe more, it gave them the excuse to vote NO. They believed it was genuine and a reasonable compromise outcome.

So, my analysis is that too many people were too easily deceived. And not that the offers weren’t seen coming, nor countered.

That betrayal will go some way to winning next time. One of the above videos specifically mentioned the false promises.

I think the YES leadership did what May et al are doing now – ignoring a reasonable offer you don’t want because openly attacking it would be seen as too negative.

They will make an 11th hour offer again, of course. Even if it’s a good one, few folks will be conned again.

ACC Labour Unionist/Green wasted £Millions and intend wasting £Millions more on white elephant projects of little value. Destroyed the City Centre on grotesque carbuncle £100Million+ of debt and renting it back. An absolute disgrace. Increasing traffic chaos and pollution. Refused a Gift of £80Million to predestrianise the City Centre. Spent £26Millions paying off the AECC debt. Refused permission for the community football stadium. It would have been finished by now. Investing in much needed jobs at a time of economic downturn. Spending £30Million vandalising an Art Gallery. Shut for three years. They intend spending £300Million on a Conference centre. The present one is used once on average one a month. Hotels have plenty of facilities that can be used and need the business.

The Scottish Gov have invested in the essential By-pass road. Helping the economy. There is investment in off shore renewables sector. Bringing jobs into the area. Osbourne taxed the Oil sector 60% to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing £Billions. There is investment in the decommissioning rig projects. EU Grants and ECB investment in decommissioning, fishing and farming. Brings £Billions invested in Scotland.

The Unionist/Green councils are increasing council tax and wasting the revenues on grotesque monstrosities and not on essential services and education. Not funding social care, homelessness, drink/drug rehabilitation and potholes. ACC has no overnight provision for homelessness but spends £Millions destroying the City centre and increasing traffic chaos and pollution levels. They want people put in prison instead of proper rehabilitation projects. Increasing the problems. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

The trams are underpriced. £8 for a return journey. (Bus) passes can’t be used. They can only be used in off peak times in any case. Under capacity. The airport bus is £12 return and (bus) passes can be used in off peak hours. The wealthiest City in Scotland has subsidised over capacity in off peak times. People in rural areas do not have a proper essential bus service. They have to use cars.

One thing the majority of the electorate in Aberdeen agrees. The town leadership is in deficit.

@Grouse Beater says: 14 February, 2017 at 10:27 am:

“Macart has it in one: “Scotland is a state of mind”
If you believe Scotland is a nation, it IS a nation.
Over 1,000 years functioning as a distinct nation with law and culture and values intact is evidence we remain a nation.”

in fact it is even deeper than that, Grouse Beater.

In North Britain the Celts are, in fact, not Celts by genetics but by culture. The Celtic, “Invaders”, were holy men, mainly celibate, and they came armed with a belief that they preached and not with weapons to subjugate.

In South Britain the native Britons had been subjugated, for several centuries, by the Romans who ruled by proxy.

They Romanised the South Briton leaders to run south Britain for them and the Centurions signed a vow of celibacy. Not a lot of Mediterranean genes were thus passed to South Britain.

The Romans left and the South Britain Romanised leaders invited the Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, tribes to come and protect South Britain. They did come but soon realised they could just take over and they too became an elite ruling class who bred within their own elite circle.

Their Royals and aristocracy still do today and their remnants still sit as hereditary peers in the HOL today.

The actual Anglo-Saxon gene pool in Angle-land is quite small. So the South Britons and North Britons are pretty much genetically both the descendants of the same Stone Age Ancient Britons.

They are, though, very much culturally different as the south first adopted Roman culture, then Anglo-Saxon culture then the two different cultures fought each other for centuries before they became a United Kingdom.

Which, by the way, was after 1745 as they were still fighting for that union at Culloden. The Treaty of 1707 was still being fought for in 1745. Going on 40 years after the Treaty was signed by Scotland in 1706 but the Acts of Union only took effect in 1707.

To my mind it has always been a troubled marriage with one abusive partner and can inevitably only end in a, none-too-friendly, divorce settlement when the abused partner has finally had enough.

Like all such abusive marriages the abuser is always saying sorry and keeps promising to stop the abuse but never does.

Will the EU be the safe-house Scotland needs? Will the USA be the pub where the Kingdom of England drowns it sorrows?

Time will tell.

Robert Peffers

Angles and Saxons were Celts too Robert, out of Holland today?

Galamcennalath @ 12:23

So, my analysis is that too many people were too easily deceived. And not that the offers weren’t seen coming, nor countered.

You might well be right, bud, I imagine your sources are substantially better than mine. I suppose it simply seems to me that when the machine got rolling around “Devo-Max”, from Gordon Brown to Jackie Bird, it was extraordinarily difficult to stop. It was then rolled up into the infamous Vow that, of course, saw the very same Gordon Brown try to take charge of a petition demanding what he’d promised. Some people, perhaps naively, might have gotten to the polling booth and thought “No” meant the devolution of further powers. Wings’ Little Black Book could arguably do with being updated to prepare for this particular argument (though, it’s pretty good to go as is).

I often think that putting Devo-Max onto the ballot paper would be a good thing, given that it’d mean independence would win the vote according to polls, but it doesn’t answer the European question because foreign policy would remain reserved: I also worry that a split between independence and Devo-Max would see “No” ending up as the most plumped for option, because the hard No camp seems to really be digging in the tent poles. In any event, it’s just shoving the jack back into the box for a little longer and I can’t see the point in that when our EU membership is effectively at stake.

I’m also not totally persuaded by the argument that people were deceived. I happen to think that a significant number of people, from the lower-middle to working classes, are notoriously risk-averse for a lot of personally valid reasons. I reckon people in this group tend to view their current position as too precarious to gamble; they don’t want to think about what happens should they fall through the net and need welfare or other public services to support them, the very things the Conservative party are doing everything they can to destroy. Things like the NHS are absolutely the place where the Yes campaign should concentrate, as well as other popular policies such as bringing energy and rail back into public hands.

But the 11th hour intervention MUST be accounted for. As you say, there will be one… And we need to be ready to mobilise when it lands.

The PFI scandal has the same solution as it did for the schools in that the owners of the buildings are the ones who will pay for the inspection and to rectify any faults found. That is both a benefit and a blessing as a particularly mercenary construction firm might throw buildings up as fast as possible in order to start making money from them in the expectation that they will be able to sort any defects as they occur.

Normally that’s not going to occur unless there’s a single contractor involved as with two or more they inspect each others work. In the case of the schools one or more of the partners pulled out leaving the remaining one to self certify. As to the flaw that was built in it seems it’s down to the gap between the outer and inner wall being increased and any stays they had being for the original size. As looking at the pictures of from the collapsed wall you can see the insulating panels it’s a fair bet that the gap was altered to accommodate them. The only question is why those panels weren’t the original spec. Were they ordered in imperial rather than metric or was it a cost cutting exercise introduced after the stays had already been bought?