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Wings Over Scotland


A faint echo

Posted on August 18, 2020 by

So that you don’t have to, we endured tonight’s Dani Garavelli programme on Radio 4 as well as last night’s Kirsty Wark one, and to be honest there’s very little to report.

It’s a statement of the blindingly obvious – the SNP is currently split between young Nicola Sturgeon loyalists for whom independence is only one aspect of creating a pure and woke new Scotland, and older Alex Salmond-supporting traditionalists for whom independence itself is the only true goal and whatever happens afterwards is in the hands of democracy and fate – interspersed with Garavelli and her media pals taking the chance to air some of their own unconnected grievances like pouting toddlers.

So we get Garavelli bleating at length about how lots of nasty people on the internet have called her out for her indisputable, provable contempt-of-court identification of one of the accusers of Alex Salmond, and yet another demented rant from poor old David “reds under the bed” Leask about the evils of this site, and so on and so forth.

You can listen to it by clicking the pic above, but frankly we wouldn’t bother.

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    128 to “A faint echo”

    1. shiregirl says:

      I can’t stomach listening to it. But thanks for taking one for the team.

    2. AndSpouse says:

      Just listened
      Why are no “good guys” on the prog?
      Scotland forever!

    3. Ruglonian says:

      These folk are pathetic!

      We see exactly how they operate, and we don’t bow to whatever special status they think they have in society, and they hate us for it 😀

    4. Geordie says:

      Meanwhile about a billion quid has been ‘spaffed’ by Westminster Tories on dodgy PPE contracts with their pals. Good to see the Scottish media getting their priorities right.

    5. AndSpouse says:

      Stu, I can’t believe that poor Dani, had to suffer all that crap (not quite quoting from radio prog) about contempt of court. How could we suggest she was contemptible??!!

    6. ANNE DONOHOE says:

      So Dani didn’t actually “out” any more of the complainants? I don’t know anyone important, but I got one from her famous Tortoise article, and one from Wark’s opus last night. It’s been like like Scot Govt Top Trumps.

    7. A C Bruce says:

      I’ll pass, thanks.

    8. David Llewellyn says:

      She ties one of the judicial review women to one of the alphabet women in the criminal case . I knew the identity of the criminal case one but Garavelli jigsawed her into place as the same person was on both Warks and Garavellis programmes. Suitably played by actors of course . #jigsaw ID’ed. Have informed COPFS to see if they will take the same steps as with Craig Murray but I doubt it .

    9. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Why is it on R4?

      Could that be because Radio Scotland no longer has a dedicated political slot of an evening?

      And why would listeners in rUK want to listen to this pish anyway?

    10. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Wooooft!

      Jackie Baillie there on the news (R Scot) bemoaning the performance of Evans, expressing the committee’s dissatisfaction.

      Get in there Jackie!

      🙂

    11. Denise says:

      When is Alex Salmond having his say?

    12. Morgatron says:

      Thanks Stu, but im a nosey self flagellating masochist.

    13. Milady says:

      I know this is what I pay you for, to listen to this guff so we don’t have to, but I just want you know I don’t feel good about it.

      It’s like when you have to pay Dynorod to jet crap out of your blocked drains. You know it’s their job but you still feel sorry they have to wade through loads of shit.

    14. Stuart says:

      You must have the patience of a saint, either that or you are some kind of masochist, but thanks, I couldn’t listen to this nonsense without wanting to put my head through a brick wall.

    15. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Can I ask something so fuckin obvious it’s a bit embarrassing…

      Should we expect both Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond to appear before this committee?

      Do they ‘have’ to appear?

      There’s no way of wheedling out of a personal appearance (e.g. ‘bug’-related excuses?)

    16. defo says:

      They are IB.
      And they will.

    17. Astonished says:

      thanks for listening and saving me having to – promise to donate extra to the next fundraiser.

      Garavelli disnae strike me as being awfy clever. Although she appears loyal.

      P.S. Anyone looking into prince andrew ?

    18. Effijy says:

      Thanks but I thanks?

      Garavelli and Leask?

      Leask said soonest demented.

    19. Vivian Smith says:

      Thanks – couldn’t bear to listen to it myself.

    20. robertknight says:

      Frankly, I’d rather have a good shit!

      Sorry – did I type that aloud???

    21. Cygnus X-1 says:

      Couldn’t take any more after last night’s guff. Watching Garavelli, Wark and Sarah Smith smirking, while quaffing and sluicing, caused in me, the worst case of Tourettes and begs the question, what part of working class Scotland do these 3 smug middle class women represent?

      It ain’t my class that’s for certain and unfortunately there’s way too many middle class, insufferable individuals, tied to the SNP, concerned solely with their own promotion and advancement and not with the cause.

    22. Morgatron says:

      OK, that’s two falls and a submission and a single KO. Wow 30 mins and my ears are bleeding and my head is numb. Leask on the helium , what a load of recycled pish.

    23. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      We are shockingly poorly served by our TV, Newspapers and Journalists in Scotland it is actually painful.
      They either rant on about pish or they promote their political masters always doing Scotland down they are so obvious they should stop.

    24. Heaver says:

      I listened to it while playing a logic game. I heard shockhorror the world is ending for: AS, NS, SNP, cupcakes, pandas.

      There is a void.

    25. defo says:

      This inquiry is the shite hits the fan moment, and all this media activity seems to be about who gets splattered, and how far it goes. Damage limitation.

      If it’s as bad as it seems, then people need held to account.
      If you or I were to do something similar, what would be the likely outcome?
      Say we framed someone, perverted the course of justice?
      Don’t pass go I’m thinking.

    26. Garavelli Princip says:

      “So we get Garavelli bleating at length about how lots of nasty people on the internet have called her out for her indisputable, provable contempt-of-court identification of one of the accusers of Alex Salmond”

      So now to add to the list of people/organisations who are guilty of “provable contempt-of-court identification of one of the accusers of Alex Salmond” we must now add….. the Scottish Government itself, who in this Freedom of Information response go even further than the various “Journalists” so brilliantly exposed by Stu in providing a most helpful response.

      Not so much a jigsaw, as a sign-post and name-check – and it’s helpfully dated “Published 19th June 2020” .

      Naturally (as neither an Establishment journo or a member of the government, I cannot name names – but it’s a public document issued by the Scottish Government:

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000022790/

      I do hope the Crown Office/COPFS will be taking appropriate action against the Head of the Scottish Government who committed such a dastardly contempt – whoever that might be!

    27. MaggieC says:

      Rev Stuart ,

      I’m presuming that the sly digs from D Garvelli about some that tried to smear her after her Tortoise column and then D Leask agreeing with her and then getting his tuppence worth in about the bloggers with the large followings trying to smear her and calling for journalists to be jailed is a direct aim at yourself and Craig Murray without actually naming either of you .

      I do wonder if D Garvelli and K Wark will be looking to make any more programmes in the future as the Scottish Parliament inquiry progresses .

    28. Sharny Dubs says:

      I am blessed with an instinct for self preservation, black belt, fifth dan!! So I avoided zen like!

      But thanks for Standing in, your a braver man than me.

    29. holymacmoses says:

      Nice to slip in that Sturgeon probably doesn’t think Scotland is
      wealthy enough to be independent and that Alex was over confident about the financial aspect. I think, these days, Ms Sturgeons financial hesitation would be seen as ill-placed by most money folk throughout the world – let alone the UK.
      AND yet Alex Bell – who made that assertion also said that he and Salmond had a fractious relationship but thought that Salmond liked some people round him who would “intellectually challenge him even though we abjectly failed”.
      I think that probably tells us all we need to know.
      Sturgeon lacks the vision, intellect and sheer guts required to take Scotland to her destiny and Alex Salmond began to realise that very quickly after 2014.
      However Ms Sturgeon has the ability and desire to control which will ensure that Scotland is run very effectively within the Union and lots of people both in Scotland and at WM are getting cosy pensionable jobs as part of the system.

    30. Hilary Mark says:

      Stu can you look at how feasible it would be to put buttons on your blogs (much like Twitter or Facebook)? I often want to show my approval of something you post without having to actually write something (much like twitter or Facebook)

    31. stewart says:

      “the SNP is currently split between young Nicola Sturgeon loyalists for whom independence is only one aspect of creating a pure and woke new Scotland, and older Alex Salmond-supporting traditionalists for whom independence itself is the only true goal and whatever happens afterwards is in the hands of democracy and fate”
      This is pish. Stu Campbell is obsessed with anyone who disagrees with him and a small group of “woke” activists are obsessed with their minority issues.
      Most SNP members wish they’d both fuck off and stop undermining the SNP.

    32. Josef Ó Luain says:

      It is my opinion that the originator of this site is in a unique class of his own when it comes to what it means to be a journalist. A fact which ought to cause those of the local journalistic clique excruciating personal and collective anguish

    33. Scuzzbucket says:

      Off-piste slightly but Craig Murray’s blog today was damming of Nicola’s involvement in the Salmond Stitch up. I’ve read Craig’s blog in the past where he didn’t think it was logical that she would smear him but obviously the tables have turned. That might be to do with the fact she tried to Jail him. It’s very exciting although not good for our prospects in the short-term. Better to know the truth though and I look forward to rubbing some “I told you I so” into some genderless works in the SNP youth online. I can smell their tears already which is giving me a boner.

    34. Guybrush Threepwood says:

      Unfortunately it appears that the WGD blog has crossed over into the woke, gradualist camp. He won’t even let you use the word ‘woke’. The forum has been taken over by about 5/6 individuals who won’t let you criticize the current SNP administration.

      He also advocates voting SNP/SNP in the next election. I’m finished with that blog.

    35. crisiscult says:

      I listened to some of that: seems yet again that bloggers and tweeters are oppressing the plucky MSM journalists and defenders of plucky GB. Deeply concerning and very risky to be a journalist in Belarus, Russian, and Scotland.

    36. kapelmeister says:

      Stewart @ 10:56

      The “small group of “woke” activists” are in control of the SNP NEC and they are not just going to “fuck off” without being combatted.

    37. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Defo (10.18) –

      Ah, thanks.

      Just knowing that AS and NS will definitely have to face questions has cheered me up more than I thought possible.

      I haven’t looked forward to anything so much since Ian Dury & The Blockheads’ Mr Love Pants in 1997.

    38. tartanfever says:

      The Independence movement should really consider just what is going to hit them if/when another Referendum were to be held.

      The media onslaught coming down the turnpike will be like something never witnessed before, we should really take note and think about which hapless soul will be heading up any Yes movement.

      The last 24 hours have been a little taster. It will get worse, much worse.

    39. Kenny says:

      “Nice to slip in that Sturgeon probably doesn’t think Scotland is
      wealthy enough to be independent”

      Sturgeon is going to get a horrible shock when she picks up a history book and looks at a map of independent countries 843-1707.

      She will probably faint when she is told of a certain black stuff found in our waters in the 1970s or a thing called the “wind” which blows and can be turned into energy.

      She will die when she hears of a thing called “water” so don’t tell her about that wet thing which is rather useful to life on earth.

      There are, I believe 192 or so independent countries in the world. There are at least 180 of them who are per capita poorer than Scotland. Maybe Bute House can start phoning round their embassies and advising them to stop being independent and quickly sign a treaty of union with… um, not sure who, as England is poorer than Scotland per capita (ironically, all these other countries would be better off entering into a union with SCOTLAND).

      And this is the only person who can lead us to independence? My collie could lead us better.

    40. MaggieC says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      This from the Scotsman showing some of the witnesses to be called ,

      http://archive.vn/rdgO3

      This is the original list of the correspondence sent by the committee ,

      https://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/CurrentCommittees/115516.aspx

      This is the list of correspondence sent and received that has been published so far ,

      https://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/CurrentCommittees/111212.aspx

      And finally the transcript from today’s committee meeting ,

      http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=12746&mode=pdf

      It’s makes for very interesting reading .

    41. Dan says:

      Anybody got a pulse? If so then get yer CV sent off. 😉

      https://www.snp.org/jobs/communications-officer-snp-parliamentary-group-office/

    42. Effijy says:

      I think Alex is on the horns of a dilemma.

      If he has the ability to expose corruption by a large collective
      of SNP leaders and officials would he then kill off any chance
      of recovery when we reach Brexit and the HR elections.

      Does he let them get away with it and endure this barbaric treatment
      Just to keep alive the embers of independence.

      If the ultimate goal is achieved he could then let both barrels rip across the country.

    43. Terry says:

      This feels like you’ve just caught your partner cheating on you. You were warned but didn’t believe it. Now it’s in your face and you can’t deny it any longer.

      Thanks to this site I wised up a while back though lived in hope til the 31 January. Since then it has got worse and worse. How many of us have tramped the streets, chapped doors and given so much of their lives to Scottish independence only to find out the leadership are not interested – quite happy they are to sit in their cushy jobs and treat us like idiots. Maybe I’m being harsh but that is what it feels like. To add insult to injury they expect women to pander to their daft identity politics that impact on their lives. And the icing on the cake? To try and throw their former leader in jail on trumped up charges. Appalling.

      After the last few days revelations I feel stressed and a tad traumatised by it all – god knows how Alex, Stu, Craig and Mark must feel. They have my sympathy and admiration .

    44. TenaciousV says:

      I chose to not give that DG show oxygen..I didn’t give any to warks either. Twitter responses were enough. While NS may not have set out to catch AS in that policy it is clear others coerced that clause for a purpose. If folk still think this was only an SNP personality clash they need to WTFU! Maybe being older has it’s advantages…we have seen too much of the British state’s dirty plays! If you think this is as bad as they will get..better run for cover now. British State has a violent history..the violence is not always in plain sight nor bloody!

    45. kapelmeister says:

      It’s all pointing to a new party. The SNP is beyond salvage. Any true believer in independence has to give their loyalty to Scotland. Not to any party, old or new.

      A new party can succeed, but only if members see it unsentimentally as the means to the goal of independence.

    46. Scuzzbucket says:

      Effijy I think he should expose the lot of them now. We would be waiting at least 3 years for Nicola to make some kind of half arsed move where a new party could be up and running with Alex, Joanna, Kenny and Angus to name a few in less than that time. I also don’t think I want to live in Nicola’s vision of a perfect society anyway. Look at how she has manipulated young impressionable people in this country in a short space of time. She is an ideologue and a career politician who has no grasp of reality and needs to be stopped at all costs. Think about what she was willing to put Alex through for her own self preservation.

    47. Michael Laing says:

      @stewart at 10.56pm: Do you think the SNP should be immune from criticism? If it is failing to do what it was elected to do, then surely it deserves to be criticised.

      As for Wings Over Scotland, I’ve been following this site since before the 2014 referendum, and with one exception where I disagreed with Rev Stu’s analysis, I have found it to be consistently accurate, forensic and informative. That one exception was when Rev Stu suggested that we should not attempt to ‘game the system’ by voting tactically for list parties in a previous Holyrood election. He might not willingly confess to having been wrong about that, but he has evidently now come to a different view.

      I, for one, am very thankful that we have a voice who is prepared to tell it like it is, whether that is helpful or harmful to the SNP. And given that Stuart Campbell appears to be speaking for the majority of ordinary Scots who want our nation to be independent and to remain in the EU, and who don’t believe that people can magically become the opposite sex just because they say they are, I don’t see how making people aware of these issues is harming the SNP. It’s the SNP leadership that’s harming the SNP by implementing GRA, inventing new hate-crimes and failing to do anything to secure the independence that we so desperately need. And that’s aside from the scandalous treatment of Alex Salmond.

    48. robertknight says:

      Effijy @ 11;25

      “ Does he let them get away with it and endure this barbaric treatment
      Just to keep alive the embers of independence.”

      The current “leadership” have spent the last six years pissing on the embers of independence.

    49. Wee Chid says:


      Guybrush Threepwood @
      18 August, 2020 at 11:01 pm

      Noticed that attitude creeping in a wee while ago, even got moaned at for my “negative attitude”. You’re right about there being a few who have taken over and who attack anyone not agreeing with them. It’s all gone a bit saccharine for my taste.

    50. Wee Chid says:

      Terry @18 August, 2020 at 11:31 pm

      I share and feel your pain and now think that if independence isn’t going to happen in my lifetime then stuff it. I’ll get on with a normal life and leave the future to the wee wokes.

    51. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @MaggieC (11.22) –

      Ha!

      Thanks aplenty for those links. They will become valuable.

      Dunno about embdy else but this feels like it could be a real game-changer.

      Plenty of folk have been following things *very* closely because their livelihoods, and perhaps even their lives, depend on it.

      Most of the rest of us like to think we have a stake in this conversation, this making of history. And that’s fair enough – if you believe in ‘democracy’ at all then you must take it seriously, and that includes having to raise your own voice from time to time, even if feels uncomfortable or may create problems with friends/family.

      This place, and others, can become, for many is us, a simulacra of ‘activism’. We are, truly ‘keyboard warriors’. (And that’s nothing to be ashamed of, if it’s realistically as far as we feel we can have any influence in the discussion.) But we don’t have as much at stake (certainly not in the sort term) as people like Mark Hirst, Craig Murray, and our host. We can only shout our support louder.

      Right now, it’s pretty plain who the goodies and baddies are in the whole scenario. We’re awaiting known unknowns. We can look forward to a proper Scooby-Doo style ending, where a mask is whipped off because consensus appears to be that the Wark effort was originally intended to show just that – a man being disgraced, exposed, led off for the rest of ‘is natural.

      ‘Take him down!’

      I don’t want to sound ’emotional’ about this but I know how much the JFK assassination meant to my old man. He waited in Glasgow before going to work, in a huge queue up to Smiths bookshop (nr the Rogano???) to buy the first edition of the Warren Commission Report). It was important to him, right then, as a very young man (he was only 20 when I was born) to find out as much as he could about the truth of something which he could see was bound to affect his life as a father.

      This whole episode feels as if it’s been unfolding forever. A man being assassinated, in clear sight, broad daylight, and people want to ask questions about it. If they fall out over asking the questions or the answers, it really doesn’t matter – the truth is more important than any of those people, any of us.

      I suppose that was just a long-winded way of saying thanks for the links. There’s a lot of detail coming up that we all should pay close attention to.

    52. Muscleguy says:

      To listen I would need to sign in. To sing in I would have to confirm I own a TV licence. Since I don’t i can’t listen. So well done for reporting on it Rev.

      It sounds like it would still be prejudicial if the Hirst/Murrey contempt trials had been jury trials instead of judge only. That the BBC though it was okay since they were not jury trials it shows how much contempt they really have.

    53. J Galt says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Smiths was in St Vincent Place – the bookshop next to the Rogano was Porteous.

    54. MaggieC says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      One link I forgot to post was the link to the committee live session from today if you didn’t watch it ,

      https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/committee-on-the-scottish-government-handling-of-harassment-complaints-august-18-2020

      The truth has to come out about what happened to Alex and and all the people who were involved in any way have to go ( hopefully straight to jail ) for the lies that have been told about the case .

      As someone who has been an Snp voter for 40 years I want the party cleared out of all the careerist’s and hangers who have suddenly appeared over the last few years and my feelings are that they would all have been in the “ Scottish “ branch of the Labour Party before 2015 but jumped ship to the Snp as an easy route to a career for themselves .

    55. Donald R says:

      I thought it gave enough information to allow critical listeners to work out what really happened. Alex Salmond was stitched up by factional over zealous young Machiavellian cultural warriors In the SNP, and then he was betrayed by his longest political friend and protege. What an almighty mess. What happens now? I wish Sturgeon would apologise and welcome Salmond back, and Salmond be gracious and shrewd to accept in a way that puts independence first.. It’s the only way I can see us emerging from this as an independent country.

    56. Robert Graham says:

      Thanks for the invite Stu but listening to more shite today gives me the boak
      Watched today’s non event at Holyrood that’s time I will never get back , I could have been doing something useful like attempting to paint the deck and fence in between the rain showers but silly me tuned into a play on words and actors attempting to confuse a ever confused audience , professional shite shifters was my impression , don’t ask relevant searching questions as to who was to blame for wasting Half a Million Pounds in the attempted fit up of a previous First Minister.

      I often wondered why the current first minister thought it was a good look to deny entry to Holyrood by the previous first minister , because the order came from the current first ministers office, and why no one has asked her why that includes removing the previous first ministers history from the SNP website , someone made the decision so they can’t avoid being asked WHY ? very simple

    57. HandandShrimp says:

      At this juncture there is no new party of note and the indications are that even if there was it could fare no better than Rise which was not so long ago a new independence supporting party.

      If a new party is formed and it is successful then it will draw the attention of the entryists just as every other party has. Labour, Liberals and Greens have the same “woke”issues as the SNP. The Tories were hit with Brexity entryists (pretty brutally). It goes with the territory of being successful. We can’t keep ditching parties because they aren’t pure enough. That is the path of religious fundamentalism which endlessly splits into factions. We need to fight for the successful party we have and make the NEC and the Standing Orders Committee more transparent.

      On the so called civil war I don’t really get what it is supposed to be about. By November 2017, when this all apparently kicked off, Salmond was no longer an MP and was pursuing other paths. He had already said he didn’t want to plough on into his dotage as an MP and has always had other interests outside of politics. There was therefore no internal lock of horns for a serious civil war to take place. Whatever motives the complainants had I can’t see this as an SNP vs SNP issue. However, there were complainants and it would have been utterly wrong to ignore them. That both the grievance process and the court case found for Salmond should have been an end to it. Unfortunately, too many journalists and political pundits had been salivating uncontrollably over a possible guilty verdict for too long to be able to handle their disappointment with any sense of proportion. So it rumbles on in desperation it seems to salvage something from the bones of the carcass. The hope being it seems if we can’t get Salmond perhaps Sturgeon did something wrong and we can trip her up. Not desperately edifying.

      Perhaps Nicola is over cautious but with the polls going our way I’m not going to criticise her approach. I can see why unionists would be absolutely desperate to rock that boat though. So I’m sticking with what has a chance of working.

    58. SilverDarling says:

      Tried to listen, but gave up.

      Seems it was just a her Twitter pals piling in to say the stuff they say on Twitter and in their various columns every day. No new insights. Lots of Bitter Together type snark and off the mark assertions. Yawn.

      She’ll probably get a wee trophy at the next MSM prize giving, for services to the Union – that’s if she isn’t in the jail by then.

    59. LeggyPeggy says:

      Donald R

      Would you be gracious and accept an apology from someone who stabbed you in the back , I know I sure has hell wouldn’t so why should Alex . I’m sorry but the Snp needs a clear out from the top down and then and only then get Alex and his allies back to get the party on the road to Independence .

    60. leither says:

      HandandShrimp

      there is munch in what you say is true.

      but the brexit party went from zero to wining the eu elections in about 2 months

      I agree with you about the new list parties. they are very lack luster, the only one that seems to be even slightly professional is the scottish alliance. (i dont like the name)

      however, as we approach the election, support amongst the activist will start to coaless around one of the parties, hopefully, celebrity endorsement will cement support. this can be tested by opinion polls H&S. which could make your comment somewhat moot?

      if this doesnt happen then folk will simply vote snp 1 and 2 and you will be vindicated

    61. Liz g says:

      To those who listened…was there any thing we didn’t know months ago?

    62. Alteredross says:

      Why is David Leask even allowed? I meam what’s his actual reason for existing?

    63. CameronB Brodie says:

      Can I interest folk in a rational and not unrelated point of view, to help fill the perceived moral vacuum of Scotland’s journalistic space? Which is suggested has an ambient frequency of partisan parochialism, according to tonight’s feedback anyway. Some say it even has echoes of animistic, schemaaaaaaatic qualities, so perhaps their is intelligent life out there in the space of Scotland’s public discourse, after all? 🙂

      Policy Sciences volume 43, pages 263–287 (2010)
      There is no “point” in decision-making: a model of transactive rationality for public policy and administration

      Abstract

      The hope that policy-making is a rational process lies at the heart of policy science and democratic practice. However, what constitutes rationality is not clear.

      In policy deliberations, scientific, democratic, moral, and ecological concerns are often at odds. Harold Lasswell, in instituting the contemporary policy sciences, found that John Dewey’s pragmatist philosophy provided an integrative foundation that took into account all these considerations.

      As the policy sciences developed with a predominantly empirical focus on discrete aspects of policy-making, this holistic perspective was lost for a while. Contemporary theorists are reclaiming pragmatist philosophy as a framework for public policy and administration. In this article, key postulates of pragmatist philosophy are transposed to policy science by developing a new theoretical model of transactive rationality.

      This model is developed in light of current policy analyses, and against the backdrop of three classical policy science theories of rationality: linear and bounded rationalism; incrementalism; and mixed-scanning. Transactive rationality is a “fourth approach” that, by integrating scientific, democratic, moral, and ecological considerations, serves as a more holistic, explanatory, and normative guide for public policy and democratic practice.

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11077-009-9098-y

    64. MorvenM says:

      I thought this was an amazingly fair review of the Wark programme from the Daily Mail, of all places.

      “Unless the BBC is trying to argue Britain’s entire judicial system is unfit for purpose, Kirsty Wark should not be suggesting the trial has done serious damage to women’s rights across the country. Instead, she should never lose sight of the fact that Jimmy Savile, a BBC employee, committed foul offences against women and children, sometimes within the BBC’s buildings. And the Newsnight report into that was dropped.”

      http://archive.vn/kRhv4

    65. Tam the Bam says:

      I had a text discussion with a journo pal of mine after the Gara velli broadcast.

      We agreed to disagree…but he was quite insistent that Dani Garavelli is in support of Scottish Independence.

      She favours Nicola obviously.Just thought I would throw this out there.

    66. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      HandandShrimp,

      You say:

      Perhaps Nicola is over cautious but with the polls going our way I’m not going to criticise her approach. I can see why unionists would be absolutely desperate to rock that boat though. So I’m sticking with what has a chance of working.

      H&S, you have not been paying attention?

      On this very website, the owner lists SIX chances Nicola had to do her job and at least lay down the foundations of Scottish Independence…

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-betrayer/

      Then there was the debacle of Nicola interfering in England’s LEGAL and MORALLY RIGHT DEMOCRATIC decision to leave the EU.

      Yet Nicola and the fat banker Ian Blackford squandered chance upon chance to secure IndyRef2 and made it their illegitimate business to try and SAVE ENGLAND FROM ITSELF during Brexit when she had the Perfect Storm in UK politics and she SHOULD have been doing her job: working for and towards Scottish Independence.

      Seriously, you are deluded if you think giving Nicola an EIGHTH chance is going to make you happy.

      PLEASE at least read some of what this site’s owner works to put on each post.

      HandandShrimp I am NOT meaning to have a go at you because we are ALL supposed to be on the same side in the final analysis, but there is too much evidence and it on this website showing Nicola Sturgeon to be a self-interested career politician with the Borgen Boxset of DVDs as her guide. She s a very good Devolution office manager and has, up until now, run the Scottish Covid TV Channel as its prime presenter quite well.

      But as a First Minister she is duplicitous, over-promoted betrayer.

      She is only interested in screwing Westminster for as much short money – 30 pieces of English Gold – so there is enough for her to keep a job she loves in the lifestyle to which she has been accustomed.

      If Nicola Sturgeon actually did the job she was employed to do and secured Scotland its Independence, odds are she would be sent back to Dreghorn and “retired” just like she “retired” the decent man who mentored her.

      But I GUARANTEE you will NOT get IndyRef2 under Nicola Sturgeon.

    67. leither says:

      Liz g says:
      19 August, 2020 at 1:10 am
      To those who listened…was there any thing we didn’t know months ago?

      ————–
      nope
      much ado about nothing in todays enquiry

      i doubt anything will come of this enquiry

    68. Tam the Bam says:

      Leither @ 1-44pm

      Leither @ 1-44 am

      I concur.The term pish springs to mind.

    69. Tam the Bam says:

      oops.

    70. twathater says:

      Thanks Stu but had enough gut wrenching bile last night from gaberwelly and co

      One thing that enrages me is this assertion and acceptance that only our esteemed politicos should have the ability to decide what is deemed to be in the public’s interest and what should be released, as far as I’m concerned it is ALL in the public’s interest . FFS most of the people on that committee you wouldn’t TRUST them to go for a pint of milk and yet they get to decide what we should or shouldn’t be told

      And as for Evans refusing to comply with requests or time wasting, disciplinary action should have been taken on her arse immediately, WTF does she think she is , I don’t care who employs her WE the unwashed pay her big salary

      This is ONE of the reasons I crave independence to MAKE these people answerable and to make them unemployed when they forget their place

    71. Mialuci says:

      kenny says

      I bet your collie plays a better game of chess than you, maybe you should let that clever dug write your letters, then we might get a sensible comment from you

    72. Mialuci says:

      Donald R

      Please enlighten us all, how did Nicola Sturgeon betray Alex Salmond, If I am correct it was the police and the procurator’s lot of fine friends and upstanding members of the community thought there was a case to answer, but as usual these upstanding members of the community new fine well that Alex was innocent of all charges, how do I know this, well it was done to me by these fine upstanding members, I was accused of assaulting a barmaid, and what a lying piece of work she was, 6 months of pleading diets then the final day came, I still had not plead guilty which scared the procurator fiscal as they hoped I would plead guilty and get them off the hook so to speak, right up to the last day I was sitting on the video evidence which took my QC 4 months to get from the said procurator, they new I had the film of myself, it was a great little film btw, like Charlie Chaplin, I was standing in the middle of the bar room getting my ears assaulted by a moron and an imbecile, only it was a silent movie so we did not get the real affect of here performance, no sub titles, alas cctv in pubs seem to only cater for silent movies without sub titles
      Anyway, on that last day in court my QC came up to me and proclaimed amidst a fanfare of blaring trumpets, my dear Mialuci he said they have abandoned the case, well the language that came out of my mouth would have made a russian sailors hair curl, and you do know of course that those russian sailors can’t half fecking swear
      The lying bitch was not charged with lying about me, and they could not let her come into court to take the oath which I wanted her to do as she would have got a few years in the slammer for perjury, not that I wanted this to happen, but if she had of taken the oath, she would only have her self to blame for her fate
      And so ends my sorry tale of woe, yes woe betide and lying blastered that is stupid enough to come to court when I am sitting there thinking about tea and crumpet, especially the crumpet lol……… Scotland we luv ya baby

    73. Mialuci says:

      My typewiting skills are getting worse, oh I feel such a fool, what am I talking about, I am a fecking fool

      Don’t forget to flush lol

    74. Oneliner says:

      Here I go again with my ‘anecdotal’ evidence.

      Several members of one CSS department have been accused (privately) of being beyond incompetence to the point of obstruction.

      ‘Despite incontrovertible evidence, they have their own agenda’. Currently resulting in unclaimed European grant money.

      If one replicates this perception across several layers of the Scottish Government, it is not hard to reach the conclusion that the CSS is acting against Scotland. Perhaps some MSPs are unwilling to accept that they have no friends in Whitehall.

    75. Oneliner says:

      Further to my comment above, let’s have no more talk of the ‘Scottish Government’ when we really mean ‘Civil Service Scotland’.

    76. Willie says:

      The big issue that I see for the hostile actors who operate for and on behalf of the establishment and against democratic expression is that they have to live within the community.

      In the early years of the last century such occupying actors were extant in Dublin as Britain played out its colonial administration. But the actors on behalf of that administration had to live within the community. And therein lay a problem that could and should have been avoided.

      And later a mere fifty years later a similar situation arose in the north of the island in what became known as the troubles.

      Democracy is something the UK does very badly. And when we look at history and how Britain has resisted democratic development in so many countries around the world, and not just in Ireland, and now in Scotland one truly wonders where our particular direction is heading. Johnson and his ilk certainly do not adhere to the settled will of the Scottish people.

      Democratic choice free of malign influence is what we must strive to achieve.The establishment might think they have all the resources, all the power but ultimately they don’t.

      They should remember that. We all should. But will they. The hostility from the BBC and from state actors within the MSM, the charges against journalists, the Salmond fiasco, the removal of powers from the Scottish Parliament more than suggests that they don’t.

    77. Robert Louis says:

      Maggie c at 1218am,

      Totally agree. The SNP is packed with ‘wokey’ careerists who in the past would have been attached to the labour party, but now they attach like blood-sucking leeches to the indy movement and SNP. Independence means nothing to them, indeed, I do not doubt many prefer things just as they are.

    78. CameronB Brodie says:

      I appreciate I’m perhaps not appearing ‘on-message’, but “woke” is a thoroughly laudable perspective. Supporting genderwoowoo in law is not woke though, which requires one to be awake to social reality. 😉

      Clinical Reasoning in the Real World Is Mediated by Bounded Rationality: Implications for Diagnostic Clinical Practice Guidelines
      https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0010265

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      Still not convinced a legal respect for biology, as in a gender-critical approach to policy design, is kind of essential to open democracy?

      Journal of Evaluation in Clinical Practice. 2017 Oct; 23(5): 915–922
      Many faces of rationality: Implications of the great rationality debate for clinical decision?making

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5655784/

    80. Rm says:

      Scotland needs new blood to take over and take our country out of the union, very few msps or Scottish mps you could trust now, most of them have had a taste of making money whilst sitting and doing nothing, if only the politicians had the passion the auob and yes marchers have, if they did we’d still be in Europe and on our own one of the richest countries in the eu.

    81. Capella says:

      David Leask is shocked that Alex Salmond “works for” Kremlin-backed RT (instead of Westminster-backed BBC obviously). That’s bad because journalists in Kremlin backed regimes get arrested and put in prison.

      Wait till he hears about Craig Murray and Julian Assange.

      Kevin McKenna and Andy Collier were good on some of the background history of the SNP.

      That’s about all I can remember from the totally forgetable programme.

    82. @Muscleguy,

      don`t think you need a TV license to listen to the radio,

      including BBC i player radio.

    83. CameronB Brodie says:

      I can do this all day. 🙂

      COGNITIVE NEUROSCIENCE, 2015, Vol. 6, No. 4, 187–224
      Discussion Paper
      Active inference and epistemic value

      We offer a formal treatment of choice behavior based on the premise that agents minimize the expected free energy of future outcomes. Crucially, the negative free energy or quality of a policy can be decomposed into extrinsic and epistemic (or intrinsic) value.

      Minimizing expected free energy is therefore equivalent to maximizing extrinsic value or expected utility (defined in terms of prior preferences or goals), while maximizing information gain or intrinsic value (or reducing uncertainty about the causes of valuable outcomes).

      The resulting scheme resolves the exploration-exploitation dilemma: Epistemic value is maximized until there is no further information gain, after which exploitation is assured through maximization of extrinsic value. This is formally consistent with the Infomax principle, generalizing formulations of active vision based upon salience (Bayesian surprise) and optimal decisions based on expected utility and risk-sensitive (Kullback-Leibler) control.

      Furthermore, as with previous active inference formulations of discrete (Markovian) problems, ad hoc softmax parameters become the expected (Bayes-optimal) precision of beliefs about, or confidence in, policies. This article focuses on the basic theory, illustrating the ideas with simulations. A key aspect of these simulations is the similarity between precision updates and dopaminergic discharges observed in conditioning paradigms.

      Keywords:
      Active inference; Agency; Bayesian inference; Bounded rationality; Free energy; Utility theory; Information gain; Bayesian surprise; Epistemic value; Exploration; Exploitation.

      https://www.fil.ion.ucl.ac.uk/~karl/Active%20inference%20and%20epistemic%20value.pdf

    84. Polly says:

      @ Michael Laing at 11.39pm

      Very well said. Agree about Stuart and the SNP and present position. The only thing I would have added is that we are not hurting SNP but the SNP IS hurting us by endangering independence and by encouraging the change in social mores through pushing laws not sufficiently discussed and has given disproportionate weight to one group of voices.

      We women who will be left to deal with fallout of GRA whether or not it goes ahead just now, have been already hounded on social media and real life when we try to discuss our concerns, and men too who stand with us have already been impacted. Although women are also hurt to find how few men are willing to see the damage of it which mostly falls on women and have been forced to see a lot of men either just don’t care or worse are misogynistic and seem to think it payback for metoo. Many don’t want to realise metoo movement was just a shouting episode where some loud voices made a din but nothing was changed for the better, most women didn’t benefit. It didn’t redress anything of the discrimination and bad treatment many women have suffered in all societies for millennia mostly because it was all Holyrood glitz. Thank God for strong supporter with loud voices about GRA and independence. Thanks Stuart.

    85. PacMan says:

      Lets look at this objectively.

      The BBC commissions a documentary about a court case on the premise of a single outcome even before that the court case started.

      The court case doesn’t go the way of the documentaries premise so they tart it up to recoup the big fee they paid for it by making it more appealing to the audience it is intended for i.e. right wing Daily Mail readers.

      It sounds like a great plan but guess what? It is condemned by it’s audience as cultural Marxist radical feminist propaganda.

      You couldn’t make it up.

    86. CameronB Brodie says:

      I hope the ‘Scottish Justice Team’ are still monitoring btl discussion on WOS. I also hope there purposes for doing so are positive, so they may be open to sound policy advice.

      Maps of Bounded Rationality:
      Psychology for Behavioral Economics

      https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/000282803322655392

    87. This week’s internet blogs are next week’s electronic fish and chip wrappers.

      The Jock Hacks are doing what they are paid to do. Stop Scots hearing about England’s march through our land killing and maiming what’s left of colonial resistance up Here.
      Johnson the serial womaniser who spurts his seed where he likes like a spoilt medieval prince Regant, is sailing through this…and McKenna, MscWhirter and Bell, Re-Born Again Tony Blair Red Tories, get their rocks off writing about an elderly man tapping a 30 year old’s bum.
      Ye blocks, ye stones, ye worse than senseless things.
      I am one of 1.6 million who voted Yes in ’14, and who are not members of the SNP, and never will be.
      I really don’t give a feck about the internal wrangles of the SNP. Come Independnece they will be as relevant as the Red Blue and Yellow Tories Up Here.
      We are the silent majority…and will be Free, by hook or by crook in the imminent future.
      It will be nasty, and disruptive..but it will happen.
      Wark, Garavelli, the Hon Smith, and the hacks who all got a wee fee for appearing in this dribble, will rot and fade away, when they don’t have a Paymaster in another country.

      Christ, Kirsty Wark in close up for 60 minutes? You’d think that her husband was in charge of production..what’d you say?

      Mr DeMille’s ready for your close ups now, Ms Wark…

    88. Contrary says:

      Well said Polly, the SNP has been, and is, hurting us. The damage they do to women’s rights and our lives is also unacceptable, while hypocritically claiming to be oh so feminist.

      It should be lesson to us to not put our faith and absolute trust in ANY political party. Always hold back some cards.

    89. Effijy says:

      The BBC has been a breading ground for sex offenders for decades-
      Jimmy Savile, Rolf Harris, Ben Thomas, Tony and Julie Wandsworth, Stuart Hall,
      Dave Lee Travis, Jonathan King are just the names that I can recall and those that
      Have been caught in spite of the corporations sea of blind eyes.

      Many of the offences happened on BBC property and even production assistants fed some of these
      Vile employees young children.

      There is a Tory MP currently accused of rape but who hasn’t resigned and indeed claims to be working from home.

      Why isn’t he hounded by the media?
      Why are all the millions donated to the Tory Party, Ruth Davidson included not decried as is the
      Unfettered TV show Alex Salmond has on RT?

      Propaganda and corruption frowns and smothers our nation.

    90. Marshall Adair says:

      Is anyone planning to make an honest documentary about all of this? If not, why not? Surely it’s possible and could easily be crowdfunded.

    91. Breeks says:


      CameronB Brodie says:
      19 August, 2020 at 8:11 am

      I appreciate I’m perhaps not appearing ‘on-message’, but “woke” is a thoroughly laudable perspective.

      I’m not against the woke perspective any more than I’m against the Flat Earth perspective, Creationist Theory, of David Icke believing that people are dressed up lizards. I’m a live and let live kinda fella, and if you’re touched by lunacy or delusion, then you’ve already got enough on your plate making life a challenge, without me adding more.

      The intense dislike and deep mistrust I have for these Wokist’s in the SNP is their appropriation of Scottish Independence as their meal ticket to power and influence to further their own agenda.

      We see how they operate; surrepticiously infiltrating committees and positions of authority and steering the SNP to punt Independence into the long grass and instead focus their manifesto on the deconstruction of womens rights, entitlements and safety, and making themselves and organisation impenetrable and answerable to no-one.

      Nobody in the YES movement asked for ANY of that. It’s actually poison to us, and we gain absolutely nothing from the toxic controversy or indeed the association.

      We’ve seen how they coordinate and collude in secret to silence their opponents, not by debate or the force of their argument, but by organising themselves into packs armed with ‘fluffy’ baseball bats and wrecking their platform to speak.

      We’ve seen first hand how they attacked RevStu’s Twitter Platform, and various other of their critics. It’s insidious and vindictivive, and they apparently answer to nobody but themselves. They recognise no code of ethics or morality that isn’t their own, and cackle like a gang of bullies who’ve just mugged another victim they hived off from the safety of the herd. It is punishable “heresy” just to question their beliefs.

      Even the “Trans” in their “Trans” rights isn’t theirs as trans-gender individuals, but purloined from transexual people, who were doing fine without the cult of aggressive “Trans” misogyny parking up on their driveway.

      Much of their “substance” and power base hasn’t been earned, and isn’t theirs at all, but expropriated from other organisations which have spent years developing their groups persona and standing in the public eye, only to have these transactivists infiltrate the command structure and misuse the host’s established and recognised integrity as a ‘carrier wave’ for their own Trans agenda.

      The closest approximation to that would be the Christian Religion assimilating pagan rituals, temples and spiritual places into the Christian religion.

      If you think I’m wrong, or being too harsh, ask yourselves one question. If these Wokists hadn’t attached themselves to the Scottish Indepence bandwagon, how many of them and their beliefs would ever have come to your attention? They draw their sustenance from “OUR” Independence Campaign and contribute nothing but toxicity to it.

      And once you’ve mulled all that over, there is also the niggling question about the circumstances of how and why these Trans activists picked on Scottish Independence as their ‘host’ in the first place. Opportunity? Or more sinister mischief to wilfully damage our cause?

    92. winifred mccartney says:

      I would rather have AS on RT – we can see and hear everything he says.

      I don’t know and will never know what was promised and the conversations tories had with their Russian donors and I include Ruth Davidson in that.

    93. susan says:

      The current SNP are hypocrits, it’s impossible to be feminist and still support this gender ideology shit. The beneficiaries of this woo woo are either a minority of ppl with psychological issues (who require therapy to help them deal with their dysphoria) or a more sinister majority who are fetishists or MRAs.

    94. Effijy says:

      How about this for Tory Barr faced cheek and corruption-

      Did I Harding, Tory life peer, who studied at Oxford with David Cameron,
      Who is married to Tory MP John Penrose, was the CEO of Talk Talk, voted
      Repeatedly the worst UK communications company.
      She lost the personal data of 157,000 clients and the company faced a record fine.
      She was then paid fortunes to provide the UK world leading Track and Trace App,
      You know the one that still doesn’t work.

      Now the Tories have put her in charge of the new National Institute for Health Protection?

      I presume this incompetent parasite has film footage of Bojo and Cameron in bed with that
      Pigs head ritual?

      Unbelievable!

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      Breeks
      The cabal who appears to be running the show today, are NOT woke, which supports inclusive democracy. They actually pose a threat to open democracy, and have certainly undermined our momentum.

      Journal of Business Ethics volume 160, pages 263–276 (2019)
      Epistemic Vices in Organizations: Knowledge, Truth, and Unethical Conduct

      Abstract

      Recognizing that truth is socially constructed or that knowledge and power are related is hardly a novelty in the social sciences. In the twenty-first century, however, there appears to be a renewed concern regarding people’s relationship with the truth and the propensity for certain actors to undermine it.

      Organizations are highly implicated in this, given their central roles in knowledge management and production and their attempts to learn, although the entanglement of these epistemological issues with business ethics has not been engaged as explicitly as it might be.

      Drawing on work from a virtue epistemology perspective, this paper outlines the idea of a set of epistemic vices permeating organizations, along with examples of unethical epistemic conduct by organizational actors. While existing organizational research has examined various epistemic virtues that make people and organizations effective and responsible epistemic agents, much less is known about the epistemic vices that make them ineffective and irresponsible ones.

      Accordingly, this paper introduces vice epistemology, a nascent but growing subfield of virtue epistemology which, to the best of our knowledge, has yet to be explicitly developed in terms of business ethics. The paper concludes by outlining a business ethics research agenda on epistemic vice, with implications for responding to epistemic vices and their illegitimacy in practice.

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10551-018-3897-z

    96. CameronB Brodie says:

      “And once you’ve mulled all that over, there is also the niggling question about the circumstances of how and why these Trans activists picked on Scottish Independence as their ‘host’ in the first place. Opportunity? Or more sinister mischief to wilfully damage our cause?”

      That’s perfectly obvious to those in the know. It’s because Scots law hasn’t gotten around to codifying legal protection for our economic, social , and cultural rights, so is particularly vulnerable to colonisation by patriarchal irrationality. We are is such a precariously vulnerable legal position, because Scots law is subourdinate to the legal principle Parliamentary sovereignty, apparently.

      Toward an epistemological foundation for social and
      solidarity economy
      Occasional Paper 3
      Potential and Limits of Social and Solidarity Economy

      https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/148770/1/78752042X.pdf

    97. CameronB Brodie says:

      Lost the syntax a bit there, oops.

    98. @Breeks,9.17

      `bout sums it up,

      The MidWoke Cuckoos,seems the prime nest for these parasites is Stirling University,

      Stirling University should be boycotted until they clear the swamp.

    99. MaggieC says:

      Polly @ 8.48 am

      Very well said , Many more men need to open their eyes to what’s going on at the moment and stand up and support women in this world. It’s not their rights being taken away by the Gra reforms and if all these * young woke * candidates get selected for the Snp and then elected next year it’s guaranteed that the Gra reforms will go through .

      You only have to look at how Rev Stuart and others lost their twitter accounts following the mass reporting mainly by the young * woke * within the Snp and complaints have been made to HQ about these young ones and nothing is done about them , They’re all still in the Snp while many long time women members have had to leave the party because of their behaviour .

    100. CameronB Brodie says:

      I appreciate I’m farting against thunder, but the trans-activists who now appear to dominate the part, are NOT woke. Introducing genderwoowoo into Scots law would have seriously harmful repercussions for natural-born women and society in general, as misogynistic patriarch hurts the poor and destroys the planet.

      On Self-Delusion and Bounded Rationality
      https://www.scottaaronson.com/writings/selfdelusion.html

    101. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ever heard of “embodied cognition”? I doubt those supporting genderwoowoo in law have. So they can’t really be considered awake to social reality.

      Embodied Bounded Rationality
      https://www.frontiersin.org/research-topics/14398/embodied-bounded-rationality

    102. Grey Gull says:

      Craig Murray’s trial looks as if it will be a fair one…..not
      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/08/preparing-for-my-trial/

    103. leither says:

      @greygull

      the establishment have decided to go for craig,

      it looks like they will get him

    104. Robert Louis says:

      Breeks at -917am,

      Bravo. An excellent post, which sums up the views of many.

      Meanwhile, despite everything, NS is still trying to punt the ‘vote for us again, and we really, really promise to ask permission for an indyref’. She already has seven mandates and a Scottish parliament vote for an independence referendum, nothing else is required – unless of course the aim is to actually prevent independence, whilst pretending to want it.

      She has to go, and her cabal of female conspirators with her.

    105. Republicofscotland says:

      Thank you Stu for putting yourself through torture to listen to those people, it couldn’t have been easy.

      Anyway there’s now a date for the opening of the Forward As One court case on the need or not for that matter for a S30 order. It’s the 30th of September.

      Kenny McAskill added to the info that it is disgraceful that the Scottish government didn’t bring this forward, indeed the tried on three occasions to block it.

    106. kapelmeister says:

      The wokeists are akin to ivy using a tree trunk to get vertical. Eventually the ivy kills the tree. The SNP is the tree. A genuine SNP leader would have stopped this and got rid of the ivy. Surgeon wasn’t even an ineffectual bystander She encouraged all this to happen. She’s the worst figure in Scottish history.

    107. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Who the fuck is advising the Clements family? Fare-play to them, whoever they are—a grand job of work.

    108. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not disagreeing with the sentiments of that post by Breeks, but I’m determined to defend the woke perspective, which is designed to counter the harmful effects of neoliberalism. Supporting the introduction of genderwoowoo into Scots law, is incompatible with a woke perspective, as it would undermine the potential for natural-born women to access the public realm. This would obviously harm Scotland’s democracy and our potential to even seek constitutional justice.

      Brazilian Journal of Political Economy, vol.30 no.3 São Paulo July/Sept. 2010
      Herbert A. Simon and the concept of rationality: boundaries and procedures

      ABSTRACT

      This paper discusses Herbert A. Simon’s conception of rationality in two of its principal general definitions: bounded rationality and procedural rationality. It argues that the latter is the one that better synthesizes the author’s view about rational behavior and that the former fills mainly a critical function. They are complementarily used by Simon in this sense. In spite of that, it is argued that it is the low degree of specificity of the concept of bounded rationality one of the reasons for its relatively greater success.

      Keywords:
      Herbert A. Simon; bounded rationality; procedural rationality.

      https://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0101-31572010000300006

    109. Allium says:

      Don’t know if its just me, but outside of twitter, no-one I know is even talking about this. Maybe things will get more intense as the enquiry progresses, but I don’t think anyone I speak to in real life saw or heard (or heard about) these programmes. BBC flogging a dead horse so far.

    110. Oneliner says:

      @kapelmeister

      I think that the Duke of Cumberland had the edge on NS.

    111. meg merrilees says:

      Scott Finlayson @ 8.32 for some time now, the BBC has made it impossible to listen to the radio through your computer. If you want to listen/watch any BBC programme including playback you have to REGISTER AND SIGN IN – which those of us without TV or TV licences are not able to do.

      Personally. I have not had a TV since 1989 so I don’t miss that bit, but as you DO NOT need a licence to listen to the radio in the UK, it is frustrating that I can only hear certain radio programmes if I am free at the time of broadcasting as you now, effectively need a licence to listen to a BBC radio programme on your computer.

    112. Oneliner says:

      @Marshall Adair

      ‘Honest’ documentaries are not of much interest to the establishment media. AS tried his format on other production houses – no takers. Hence he ended up with RT.

      I also heard (Bernard Ponsonby?) that the AS trial was the subject of 3 documentaries – so we live in hope.

      Meanwhile, Alan Little (?????) did an excellent programme on the 2014 referendum, in which he concluded that senior figures in the BBC, who ought to have known better, regarded the SNP as nothing more than an annoyance. I think we can guess who they might be.

    113. Oneliner says:

      Re the above, I was trying to be too clever and give Alan Little 5 stars – they translated as question marks.

    114. Sharny Dubs says:

      CameronB Embodied Bounded Rationality.

      I have to confess I got bored half way through, scrolled to the end to see if there really was a punchline, and was gratified to see my summation was basically correct in that it was a bit of a damp squib.

      But it brought to mind words of our bard, and here forgive me if I paraphrase.

      Ye critic folk may cock your nose, and say, how can ye air suppose, ye wha ken hardly verse frae prose, te mak a song, but by your leave, my learned foes yer maybe wrang.
      A set of dull conceited hashes, confuse yer brains in college classes, ye gang in stirks and come oot asses, plain truth tae speak. Ye who would have climbed Pernasses by dint of Greek.

      Have a nice day dude.

    115. CameronB Brodie says:

      Apologies for appearing pushy, but I’m trying to use my training to support our democracy. A gender-critical approach to law and policy design is considered “best practice”. That’s why the Scottish civil service had to be instructed to stop following “best practice”, on order to allow the GRA legislation to proceed.

      There can only be a limited number of individuals with the power and authority to make such drastic changes to Scotland’s ‘democratic’ process.

      Annual Review of Political Science, Vol. 2:297-321 (Volume publication date June 1999)
      BOUNDED RATIONALITY

      Abstract?
      Findings from behavioral organization theory, behavioral decision theory, survey research, and experimental economics leave no doubt about the failure of rational choice as a descriptive model of human behavior. But this does not mean that people and their politics are irrational.

      Bounded rationality asserts that decision makers are intendedly rational; that is, they are goal-oriented and adaptive, but because of human cognitive and emotional architecture, they sometimes fail, occasionally in important decisions. Limits on rational adaptation are of two types: procedural limits, which limit how we go about making decisions, and substantive limits, which affect particular choices directly.

      Rational analysis in institutional contexts can serve as a standard for adaptive, goal-oriented human behavior. In relatively fixed task environments, such as asset markets or elections, we should be able to divide behavior into adaptive, goal-oriented behavior (that is, rational action) and behavior that is a consequence of processing limits, and we should then be able to measure the deviation. The extent of deviation is an empirical issue. These classes are mutually exclusive and exhaustive, and they may be examined empirically in situations in which actors make repeated similar choices.

      Key Words?
      decision making; behavioral organization theory; behavioral decision theory; political psychology.

      https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev.polisci.2.1.297

    116. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sharny Dubs
      I’m only putting ideas out there, that coalesce to form a whole that’s greater than the parts. Or at least that’s the plan. 😉

    117. Alec Lomax says:

      Kapelmeister – history aint your strongest suit.

    118. Sweep says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      “Woke” as a descriptor originally meant “socially aware”. However, as those espousing ever more outlandish causes attached themselves to it and started competing with one another for Woke points, i.e. “I’m more Woke than you”, the term has gradually come to be used to describe pretentiousness and (misplaced) smug superiority.

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sweep
      I can accept that, though it is an unhelpful consequence of ideological competition.

    120. stonefree says:

      @ Effijy at 9:15 am

      “There is a Tory MP currently accused of rape but who hasn’t resigned and indeed claims to be working from home.”
      I think he hasn’t been charged but is bailed to appear pending further enquiries, If the Tories suspent him,or expel him , they could find him taking a court action against them.(I know there are ways around that, but it’s tories)
      If he is charged then it changes a bit, he could be suspended pending the result of court action

      “Why isn’t he hounded by the media?”…………..Tory Press Kind of says it all

    121. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi meg merrilees at 11:35 am.

      You typed,
      “Scott Finlayson @ 8.32 for some time now, the BBC has made it impossible to listen to the radio through your computer. If you want to listen/watch any BBC programme including playback you have to REGISTER AND SIGN IN – which those of us without TV or TV licences are not able to do.”

      You can listen to Radio 4 (and others) at these two links:

      https://internetradiouk.com/#bbc-4

      http://www.radiofeeds.co.uk/mp3.asp

      On the second one, you scroll down to what you want to listen to, then click on the red/yellow link beside ‘Listen live’, over go the right. On my machine, I selected ‘BBC Radio 4 (DAB)’. When I clicked the red/yellow link, it opened in iTunes and started playing.

    122. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      over go the right = over to the right

    123. CameronB Brodie says:

      Such cultural diffusion of theory is not helpful. Especially as Braxitainian constitutional practice takes a lurch towards populist and racially informed authoritarianism.

      Diversity, Social Justice & the Educational Leadership, Summer 2018, Vol. 2, No. 3, pp. 1-11
      Woke Pedagogy: A Framework for Teaching and Learning

      The sociopolitical context of schooling demands that teachers acknowledge the ways their students’ and their own experiences are shaped by the intersections of racism, classism, sexism, heterosexism, and other discriminatory factors. This is especially true during times of heightened civil unrest resulting from pervasive and persistent injustice experienced by minoritized populations.

      To engage students in pedagogy that connects with their lived experiences and that equips them to critically examine inequities, teachers must refute colorblind pedagogy in favor of woke pedagogy. Woke pedagogy, like critical multicultural education, is defined by teaching practices that integrate critiques of contemporary justice-related issues with academic content in a learning environment that encourages introspection, interrogation, and insurgence.

      This theoretical framework for woke pedagogy outlines a wide range of knowledge, skills, and dispositions that equip teachers to promote critical thinking about complex issues – in other words, to be woke pedagogues. Grounded in Black feminist ideology, woke pedagogy distinguishes itself from critical multicultural education in important ways: 1) both teachers and students view their lived experiences as sources of knowledge and tools for knowledge creation, 2) teachers and students analyze injustice from an intersectional perspective, and 3) teachers exhibit activist care.

      This conceptual treatise includes suggestions for empirical research studies that will yield results that are crucial to the effective practice of woke pedagogy, a 21st century approach to critical multicultural education.

      KEYWORDS:
      woke pedagogy, critical multiculturalism, social justice, intersectional analysis

      https://scholarworks.uttyler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1030&context=dsjel

    124. johnj says:

      I tuned in by accident, managed to stick with the self-serving moaning for 10 minutes, and switched off.

    125. C Griffiths says:

      Wark, Smith, Leask, Garavelli still haven’t come to terms with the fact the jury found AS not guilty and found the allegations against him false. I would have loved to have seen their faces the exact moment when they heard the court verdict.

    126. Wee Chid says:

      Muscleguy says:
      18 August, 2020 at 11:54 pm
      “To listen I would need to sign in. To sing in I would have to confirm I own a TV licence. Since I don’t i can’t listen. So well done for reporting on it Rev.”

      You don’t need to confirm you have a licence to listen to BBC Sounds – the radio player. I listen to 4 extra regularly and have never been asked to confirm that I have a licence.

    127. Liz says:

      Thanks Stu for taking it for the team.

      The point a few people are missing about the wokes embedded into the SNP is this. Do you think they would have been allowed a foothold if NS wasn’t in charge.

      She’s invited them in. She hides behind the appalling Shirley Ann Somerville who is one of her mouthpieces.
      That makes NS a coward in my eyes as well as s manipulative careerist.

      She has to go.

    128. Camz says:

      Reading Garavelli’s tweet, it seems the only folk interested are other journos. Shock-horror.

      You just know when something isn’t pro-Indy. It appears on the BBC.



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