A Butterfly On Absinthe
If you’ve been reading Scottish social media or the Scottish press for the last year and a half or so, the following graph is going to come as a bit of a shock to you.
But there it is all the same.
Activists, who are tiny in number but loud of voice, habitually like to proclaim that they speak for the whole of Scotland, such as at this event in Glasgow at the weekend, where the former First Minister Humza Yousaf – as part of a gathering of some of Scotland’s most hateful and intolerant bullies and dreadful hypocrites – took it upon himself to proclaim on behalf of five and a half million people that the leader of a lawful, democratic political party was “NOT WELCOME IN SCOTLAND”.
Politicians, and members of the event’s panel, regularly decry “abuse” and call for respectful debate, but Yousaf’s pal Anas Sarwar, while not present this time, was keen to join in the general sentiment a few days ahead of the Hamilton by-election.
Yousaf’s stance was quite audacious, because according to the last recorded approval ratings for both men, Farage is actually less unpopular in Scotland than Yousaf is.
It’s all but obligatory for anyone in Scotland even an inch to the left of Farage to take a one-sided anti-Israel stance on the grim conflict in Gaza. That’s perhaps unsurprising, because the country has a microscopic Jewish community of fewer than 5,500 people – almost half of them concentrated in a single constituency and outnumbered more than 20 to 1 by Scotland’s 120,000 Muslims – so there aren’t many votes to be won (particularly in Glasgow, where Yousaf and Sarwar hail from and which is home to by far the largest bloc of Scotland’s Muslims) by taking a nuanced or moderate view on the ongoing slaughter.
But as with so many other preoccupations of the political class and the activists of the Omnicause, the Scottish public simply don’t share their fundamentalist positions.
The question we asked in our Norstat poll went out of its way to allow for respondents to take a measured stance, offering a sliding scale of 11 points. But by a huge margin the biggest plurality chose the “exactly equal” option.
(Alert readers will by now have deduced that the graphic at the start of this article compresses the 11 options into three for simplicity, with 0-3 counted as “Mostly Israel”, 4-6 being “Broadly Equal” and 7-10 deemed “Mostly Hamas”. But the full version really emphasises the extent to which the public blames both equally.)
It’s worth noting, though, that the two next-largest votes were for the absolutist positions. Even when you offer people a wide range, they cluster at the extremes and at total neutrality, which is probably a reflection of our increasingly polarised society. But what we can say from these results is that anyone who takes a black-and-white view and thinks EITHER side is solely or almost solely to blame is at odds with almost 90% of Scots.
(12% of people said “Don’t Know”, incidentally, and 2% “Prefer not to say”.)
Wings made its own stance clear right back at the start, which – as we suspected – has turned out to be the one shared by most people in Scotland.
And which has of course led to us being dubbed both “extremely antisemetic” [sic] “Hamas supporting cunts” AND a “degenerate genocidal Zionist apologist bastard”.
(The latter despite having repeatedly likened the Israeli government’s retaliation for Hamas’ appalling atrocities to mass reprisals by the Waffen SS in World War 2, and the former despite having repeatedly called Hamas “murdering scum” and “terrorists”.)
But anyway. Such is the way of the world nowadays. So we must confess to a small flicker of comfort in these terrible times at the knowledge that Scots refuse to be forced by shrieking armchair warriors to take sides in an intractable centuries-old conflict on the other side of the world about which Scotland can do absolutely nothing.
(Though it was quickly snuffed out again by the tribal party divisions, with Labour and the Lib Dems more or less reflecting the general public but SNP voters on one side, and Tory and Reform voters on the other, leaping to the extreme ends.)
We’re basically with the Jewish writer Harlan Ellison on this one:
And as it happens, in so far as anyone can speak for the nation, so is Scotland.
I’m always suspicious when any politician presumes to speak for Scotland or the Scottish people. Wishart boldly pronounces that the Scottish people would never forgive the SNP if it supported abstentionism. Where’s his evidence for that? Of course, he’s just worried about missing out on his gravy. Similarly, Scooter Boy may be alarmed to discover that most of us don’t fit into his oresumptive narrative. Is it a white thing?
Wrt to Palestine and Israel, I actually thought it would be skewed more pro Israel, given the continued silence of mainstream media, politicians, councils (my local Tory/lab council has a Ukrainian flag on its HQ) on the cleansing.
With you all the way there. Unfortunately, nuance seems to have been banished from discussion. You’re not allowed to think that there may be valid arguments on both sides of a debate.
Always sticks in my craw when as an anti-Zionist I’m accused of being antisemitic.
As an atheist, I’m as antisemitic as I am anti-buddist or anti-Seventh Day Adventist.
As an anti-Zionist I object to the narrative that proclaims that a religious scripture entitles one people to forcibly displace another, and I don’t care who’s religious scripture is responsible, it’s legally and morally wrong.
An intelligent book and a good read on the whole subject of Arab Israeli relations: ‘Apeirogon’, by Colum McCann. – “It will not be over until we talk”
I see Hamas as the logical reaction of a country that has been invaded and the local population colonised.
It happened here. Our Hamas was the Jacobites, and the reaction by the colonisers was similar, genocide.
And then there is NI…
When democracy doesn’t protect your country there will always be some who turn to less palatable methods in response to the unpalatable methods being used in the colonisation.
As much as I am no fan of the Scottish government. I do not think it is unreasonable for them to declare that war criminals, wanted war criminals are not welcome in Scotland. The Israeli government is wanted for war crimes.
If Scotland welcomes them and fails to arrest them Scotland is complicit in that. I think that is something due consideration.
NI rejected terrorism and achieved peace.
Although the poll does go out of its way to give the broadest latitude to the respondents, I’m not sure how accurate it is. I, for instance, would certainly go to the neutral position if I were asked, but that’s actually because I consider both sides to be moral equivalents. Responsibility, on the other hand, is a much more dispassionate question, and it 100% rests on Zionism, not Hamas. Simply put, Israel is a 19th century colonial, settler state based purely on a concept of racial supremacy. To put it plainly, both sides are murderers, but only one is also a thief. The Israelis started something they can’t finish.
Tell you what, I’ll put all that in the question next time.
As a great man once said, Stu, opinions are like arseholes. Everybody’s got on and most of them stink. You’ve just been introduced to mine. Opinion, that is.
Excellent point,this is the way colonizers work.
The media position was that this was 100% Hamas’ fault, and that still seems to be the consensus even now (while also starting to reluctantly acknowledging Israel’s genocide attempts). So the fact that only 25% of people think this is already a massive divergence from the broad media view, but possibly not in the way you are spinning here.
Plus in reality, it doesn’t really matter how it started. I’m sure that (to use an example) in 1939, you could have got over 25% to claim that Poland started their war with Germany. Putin used that exact line not so long ago.
Really not sure what media you’re reading.
The media that squarely blamed Hamas for hostage taking and 100% stood behind Israel, buying all their stories about how the hospitals contained militants, and how UN food distribution organisations were actually Hamas sympathisers (debunked).
Its only relatively recently that some media outlets have started to be a bit more critical of the mass slaughter. Even then, its incredibly restrained. I think the numbers you have posted really show that we are not buying the media line.
So, a media with no names?
His media goes to another school Stu…..but it definitely exists. And it absolutely proves his point because it’s uniformly bad media which fully backs up his worldview.
No really. Trust him on this. Those rose tinted glasses didn’t come cheap, and the world absolutely IS tinted pink.
You want a list of media outlets that blamed Hamas and stood squarely behind Israel when they started bombing? Really? I mean really? With all due respect, that sounds completely disingenuous.
I may as well just list them all. The Guardian, the Spectator, Politico, the Daily Beast, the Telegraph…. This is not a reference to their positions in the last couple of months (still very guarded), but their initial reactions. The idea that there’s a world where everyone was cheering on Hamas is just bizarre.
The poll question sounds to me like who stated the current big conflict. Hamas did on 07th Oct 2023. But that is not really the question that matters , History did not start in 2023. I blame Israel for the whole problem they created , starting decades ago. The poll question doesn’t allow me to say so. So the result is open to confusion.
If you blame Israel for the whole problem, then you blame them for the current conflict, because the current conflict is just the latest expression of the whole problem. So you vote 0. Simple.
I blame the Romans for chucking the Jews out of Judea.
Some of the Indy supporters here are forever asserting our own ancient and inalienable rights.
Seems a bit “off” to deny those rights to other nations as equally entitled, especially when in our own Scottish “mythology”, we were implacably hostile to the Romans. Are we saying now their ethnic cleansing was the right thing to do?
What has been going on since 1945 is the most extreme example extant today of an indigenous people reclaiming their homeland from the descendants and/or replacements of those who drove them out.
It really doesn’t matter how you come into possession of stolen property. If the rightful owner turns up on your doorstep, it’s time to give it back.
“This is not a reference to their positions in the last couple of months (still very guarded), but their initial reactions.”
I didn’t do the poll in October 2023.
Mendacious McCarthyismface;
Yet more Grammarly/ Grok AI lazy pseudo history p1sh from you, you complete monkey spanker..
Holy writ (that you keep whanging oan about); you know, Old Testament stuff you keep referring to.
Read the Book of Kings?
No, thought not.
If you had would you understand it?
No probably not..
Your predetermined holy land nonsense long long long predates the Romans.
Never mind the Babylonians raising their place (ahem) but what about the Philistines and Ghat of Goliath fame?
What about Jericho?
That’s what’s going on now you complete and utter nugget.
I would have thought your funders would have required a bit more theological research before paying you to kick off with whatever keich AI is spouting because people are too lazy to check the sources.
Well idiot, Perhaps they’ll be wanting their money back..
Anyway, the dreadful events in Israel preceding Israel’s latest BOOK of Kings no holds barred reenactment; butcher and bolt anyone?
Even Empires – your glorious British one included/ frequently indulged in it.
Why whine when the underdog does it then, alls fair in.. and all that.
Or is it only acceptable for those you support?
Suppose it’s always been so.
Butcher and bolt, look it up m0r0n. I look forward to your facetious non response based (no doubt) on some inadvertent spelling mistake or spell checker made to keep you feeling smug superior and validated.
And as I’ve said before; tw8t; I hope your next one is a hedgehog.
Feel free to respond because reading and responding to two of your posts/ made up tripe is more than enough for me so back to M.O. – it won’t be read.
We speak for Scotland…..
A typical slogan slur thrown around by politicians, whilst nobody listens to what Scots actually want and have done the ignore tactics on for centuries.
The difference between having a media mega phone and a union pea brain payed for job, and Scots under Colonialism having a invisible voice,
No one speaks for Scotland except the ethnic Scot, and a small number from outside the perimeters that are becoming more and more aware that Scotlands treaty is faux and the right to self determination for Scotland is being censored and thwarted by a Colonial governance.
Scotland is often dragged into wars And never asked if it wants to take part in the constant wars of its neighbours,
In fact it neighbours often bring the wars to Scotland, Ireland and Wales through Englands doors, using every device of politics it can to include Scots. Irish and Welsh.
It has Colonised its three neighbours and used its people as cannon fodder for centuries,
Now it imports fractious nations wanting war to our land through defined immigration, because Scotland, Wales and Ireland have no Borders that are recognised by Englands Great Britain,
Three nations that need to re- instate borders of their own that can protect them from the forth nations multiple centuries politics of war mongering attitudes.
50 / 50 opinion spread on a range of matters sounds awfy familiar…
I suppose it just highlights the control the powers that be and their MSM and Social Media puppets have, which enables them to continue pumping out their divide and rule propaganda to control and steer the narrative, whilst all the while the destruction / exploitation / carnage continues in the various theatres that they have interests in.
It’s a well known tactic to treat the public like mushrooms, by keeping them in the dark and feeding them shit. Bombard them with often contradictory information that means they struggle to form a true point of reference to develop mature and nuanced opinions.
Judging by most humans short attention spans and apparent lack of ability to consider and learn from historic / current events and utilise critical thought processes to extract themselves from the mire, I guess one just has to treat life as an ongoing Black Mirror-esque dark comedy.
Anyway, back to the fruit and veg garden for a wee grounding session to provide myself with healthy sustainable locally sourced seasonal sustenance.
Maybe if folk of all different hues got their heads out of their arses and had a bit more respect for and understanding of each other and the land and sea that provides for our existences, we wouldn’t be in such a skipfire.
I recall seeing the despicable act of lines of many hundred-year-old olive trees getting ripped out of the land by some invading force that wanted to ruin the livelihoods of those that had lived there for generations, and clear that land of people so they could take it over for themselves. I think that act alone would be quite a powerful motivating factor to create a lasting grudge.
Aye, if someone came along and wrecked and took my garden after my years of commitment creating and tending to it, I think it would be a totally natural emotionally driven reaction to a provocative act that there would be a significant price to pay for such an action.
“Aye, if someone came along and wrecked and took my garden after my years of commitment creating and tending to it, I think it would be a totally natural emotionally driven reaction to a provocative act that there would be a significant price to pay for such an action”
Commendable honesty Dan.
If you’re still in the mood for being honest, perhaps you would like to answer a question.
Would you seek out the garden wreckers and have it out with them? Or would you bide your time, keep your eyes peeled for some innocent, uninvolved, defenceless lassie, and then carve her to pieces with a knife because you guess she looks a bit like your garden wreckers?
It’s the answer to questions like that one that affect just where on Rev Stu’s scale some of us Scots sit.
Then there is the unarguable fact that in this conflict, however much we strive to sit on the fence and see both sides as equally culpable, one of these sides would kill any and all of us without compunction if they could. And already has killed quite a few of us, without ever bothering to ask the victims which side they were on.
Whilst the other side isn’t at all interested in killing us. And hasn’t.
“Whilst the other side isn’t at all interested in killing us. And hasn’t.”
Only because we don’t have something they feel they have a God-given right to take. If we did, rest assured we’d also be treated accordingly.
As Rents states “it’s shite being Scottish”, but it’s nowhere near as shite as being a Palestinian.
So the Stern Gang was merely a neighbourhood watch organisation?
…. futhermore, Hatey, your assertion that “Whilst the other side isn’t at all interested in killing us. And hasn’t” is nonsense, given that 28 British nationals were killed and dozens more injured in the Irgun bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, 1946.
1946 – long before I was born.
Jerusalem – a place I’ve never visited and never will.
Manchester Arena – now there’s somewhere I HAVE been.
Don’t think I’ve ever read such a telling response, shedding so much light on an individual’s psyche, as that. I actually feel sorry for you.
Bless you Bob.
Have 7 virtue signalling stars from me, to hang in your window, so that the whole world may bear witness a saint walks in our midst.
Some of the Stern Gang may still be alive. Go get em!
McHateface
Nimby obscurantist claptrap
I am not confident in the colonial system we have to use for ,voting
If we are to continue to accept that system then it must be used to ensure that none of the Status quo parties never get a look in,
That includes expelling reform, whom are Englands-Great Britain new national party, that would never allow England Britain to be lost to them,
Comments seem to be delayed or lost in the ether,
Wish ALL of your racist claptrap about being swamped by “incomers” was lost in the ether !
Seems about right.
I decry all human slaughter, but it is their national sport and they love it. If they didn’t love it they wouldn’t be doing it, so let them play. They’ve been at it since not only before I was born, but before recorded history.
Each generation gets to have the ‘News’ before ignoring it after the umpteenth decade, or trying to join in. Joining in, or spectating just turns it into an international sport, which doesn’t help.
New investors for the club promise brand new kit and upgrades to facilities. This year we are introducing the Balfour rule to consolidate pitch sizes. Exciting new VAR coming soon.
I dunno, maybe we collectively miss the Colosseums or something, but if you love the sport go ahead and buy a season ticket,a scarf some flares and a flag to wave – I do have an old ’67 season strip I can sell you if you like, probably worth a bit on Ebay, I don’t go to the games any more.
I’m shocked at this poll.
One side has been taking another country over piece by piece for decades.
One side can shoot or lock up young teenagers without trial or recourse.
One side has the best military equipment and training as well as the support of the US military versus the other sides home made bombs from water pipes and old Russian guns.
One side justifies the mass murder of thousands of babies and children without condemnation from the Western Media.
One side is cutting off electricity, water, food, shelter and medical support for the other.
How on earth anyone can say these 2 sides are equally at fault is beyond me.
How about there is a cease fire, the few remaining hostages are released on both sides.
The United Nations sends in peace keeping forces just like they did in the break up of Yugoslavia. They are heavily armed and they mobilise to capture or kill any Hamas activities.
For the other side they stop Israeli settlers stealing more and more Palestinian land and the persecution of Palestinians.
In my opinion the Palestinian people would grasp this in an instant but the Israeli government would not. Their parliament has made it clear that they will take all of the surrounding countries for themselves.
An Israeli Minister pronounced the Palestinians have 3 options:-
1, Keep fighting and every one of them will be killed.
2, Leave the area totally for a far off land. (No one can support millions of immigrants)
3, stay and Accept Israeli rule over you and have no rights.
Just yesterday we seen a U.K. Doctor in a panic as she tries to treat an overwhelming number of gunshot wounds in a barely operational Palestinian Hospital followed by the media confirming that the Palestinians and the foreign Doctors were liars.
Really? These people shot themselves in great numbers to fool out Doctors and Media.
This must be stopped now or there is no need for a United Nations or International Court of Justice or a Human Rights Bill if they cannot function.
For God’s sake we must have peace!
For there to be peace in Gaza would require both sides to want peace. Neither is the least bit interested in it.
Nailed it.
Both sides consider the cost of keeping up the fight both bearable and worth while.
Let me just emphasise that for all those bleeding hearts out there.
BOTH SIDES STILL WANT TO CONTINUE. CAPICHE?
Israel does not want peace because their Zionist beliefs require the eradication of Palestinians. Palestine does not want to negotiate peace because it would result in the above. Asking people in the UK what they think about ‘the conflict’ in Gaza is simply proof of the power of the UK corporate media to manipulate beliefs. Referring to the genocide in Gaza as ‘a conflict’ is beyond the pale.
Stu, I’m surprised and disappointed in your remarks on this issue. Zionist Israel wants the land, all of it, not peace, and has said it will “turn Gaza into a parking-lot”. Israel (thanks mainly to the US and the UK) has the heavy weapons and has shown itself willing to kill everyone in its way, not only Pslestinians. I don’t think you would be happy if England decided to remove all the Scots from our land and gave us the options of stay quiet, starve or die, or just leave.
Gaza has long been an open-air prison blockaded by Israel, and it was likely that the residents would seek to attack their jailers. It is also very likely that Israeli security knew the attack was coming (they’ve used their technology to target individuals for death in neighbouring Lebanon and Syria} and allowed it to happen as a way of giving themselves an excuse to “cleanse” the land of its people. A bit more reading (e.g. Ilan Pape, Shlomo Sand) by some people might be a good idea.
“The Jews”, as they are called, have no valid historical claim to the land of Palestine but adherents of different religions (Jewish, Muslim and Christian etc) lived there for long before the evil Zionist concept was developed in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Sadly, I understand that some (US) evangelical Christians support Zionism because they believe it will result in “Armageddon”, “the end times”, and the return of Jesus Christ.
Yes, the world has gone mad but we should stay as objective as we can, especially by not pretending that there is some kind of equivalence between the native population and the invaders. I don’t think anyone pretends that indigenous people in North & South America were the equivalent of the European invaders, but that is a comparable situation to what has been happening in Palestine since c.1948.
“Stu, I’m surprised and disappointed in your remarks on this issue.”
Seems to me what you have an issue with are the poll respondents.
@Bill Craig
If you’re really up for staying as objective as we can:
“have no valid historical claim to the land”
They’ve got historical claims to the land predating the Christian era. So I guess it comes down to debating the weasel word “valid”. The Roman histories describing the bloody war the Romans had with them, in that territory, prior to their ethnic cleansing and expulsion, is valid enough for me.
“into a parking-lot”
So some people said that. So some other people say, over and over, who they want to sweep into the sea. They even write it into their constitutions. Objectively, equally bad on either side.
“the options of stay quiet, starve or die, or just leave”
A humongous option missing there, Bill. Maybe you inadvertently overlooked it. Maybe you’re not nearly as objective as you are making out.
Hint: release the hostages, dead or alive. That’s the game changing option you overlooked.
“I don’t think anyone pretends that indigenous people in North & South America were the equivalent of the European invaders”
But who are the indigenous, and who are the invaders? The answer you favour only works when you arbitrarily decide that all of history prior to 1948 can be discounted. By doing that, of course, you can state “no valid historical” claim, and thus circularly bolster your own argument.
Not really being objective, is it?
Harlan Ellison nails it, although his solution for a 26 mile high wall is at least 5 miles short of what is required.
But here’s something to ponder for all those who indulge in virtue signalling – The Israel/Palestine issue is the single greatest mess resulting from mass immigration where the immigrants took over the native population and look at the violent disaster that resulted.
Consider that outcome next time you virtuously condemn those who express concerns about immigration to Europe and the UK/Scotland.
Iain Mhor,
I have the same believe as yourself and decry all human Slaughter, however Scotland is being dragged into it due to it being imported from England,
It has not failed to pass my attention that whilst the old British forces are being hollowed out and reduced, that used to have connection to british families,
They are already being replaced with young men from foreign shores of fighting age that have little or no connection to British families, and on command would have no qualms fighting the British citizen whom have no defence left to protect themselves.
And the laws and courts have changed the rules to favour protection more on the new side,
The four nations are sleep walking into oblivion. Simply because the invasion is not yet quite obvious,
Although most invasions of Britain has come via boats and ships in the past too,
Some are waking up, but most still believe the propaganda of goodies an baddies, taking sides and harbouring nicities against whomever they are brain washed to think are the goodies.
Life is not so simple in politics of control.
Both side are baddies invading Britain and being posted into cities and towns in all four nations until they equal or outnumber locals,
Have you noticed they are posted to certain areas that have a history of rebellion against the government at one time or another,
But they are protected by new and recent laws bought in.,
Just a personal observation.
You can only be dragged into something if you are interested in it, or perhaps trying to keep the wife happy.
“… that good men do nothing”
Good men have already been there and decided there’s nothing to actually do, except observe with disinterest and effect mild curiosity.
Yes dear, that one suits you. Indeed, that policy does appear an ill conceived affront to humanity, perhaps try another one on for size. Hmm? Well, I don’t know, maybe the ‘topaz melody’ was it? Yes I’m sure it’ll match the ongoing negotiations just fine.
I’m sure whatever everyone eventually settles on will be quite lovely.
The thing about wars is, if you aren’t in one, you’re not in one.
I have never understood why the Gaza issue in particular has assumed such prominence on the Left.Yes,it is mixed in with Anti-colonialism narratives etc but why Gaza/Palestine/Israel?
Anyhoo,it is an issue I have vanishingly small interest in despite the flags at the stadium I attend,when I can,and certain family members,IE my Da,reaching near apoplexy whenever the issue is mentioned.For those reasons,among others,it’s something I usually avoid.
It is,however,gratifying to see some evidence that perhaps many other Scots are similiarly around the Centre on this.According to those who shout loudest “GENOCIDE!!!!” is the only reputable position to take.This has always seemed to me very similiar to the “BIGOTS!!!” position re Gender etc.Most folk,imo,don’t function this way,thankfully,and it’s nice to see some evidence of this.
Well indeed: good to see that some folk do get it!
The inchoate screeching and monomaniacal focus on forcing this narrative down folk’s throats is of course functionally indistinguishable from troon zealots and their hapless progressive fluffers as you so rightly observe.
These are not serious people, nor should they be entrusted with the running of a whelk stall let alone a country.
I suspect that given recent events and the direction of travel in the rest of the UK, a lot of independence support who despair of finding someone worthwhile voting for will be deciding to stay at home come election time.
Like many I don’t think I could ever hold my nose for long enough to vote Reform, but I’d happily piggyback on any future electoral success they might enjoy if the law of unintended consequences means that their success drives “soft No” voters into the Yes camp.
Given the ridiculous situation the indy movement has constructed for itself of having a majority polling in favour of independence, but absolutely no clear plan or route to operationalising that majority in the short term, perhaps relying on Reform’s electoral success is the best we can hope for? If so, it’s a sad comment on the political acuity of the Scottish electorate and the quality of our politicians and institutions…..but at this stage I’ll take any port in a storm!
hmmm…..the trouble with these types of ” both-sides-as-bad-as-each-other ” verdicts is the absence of any attempt at identifying root causes .
In this instance can anyone seriously dispute that the formation of the State of Israel was and continues to be an unmitigated disaster for the Palestinians ?
Does this JUSTIFY the actions by Hamas on Oct 7 ’23 ? No , it does not – to me any deliberate targetting of non-combatant civilians is ALWAYS under ALL/ANY circumstances morally indefensible .
Does 70+ years of Israeli oppression of Palestinians EXPLAIN the attack on Oct 7 ’23 ? Yes , it does . Had the former not created an apartheid state that Palestinians are the victims of would horrible events like the aforementioned have happened ? I believe not .
Polls are really only of relative efficacy in predicting / giving an inkling of voter intention ( even then they can be misused to attempt TO effect outcomes rather than predict them ) and when it comes to making value judgements of complex moral questions , particularly ones related to events in distant lands/cultures , they are more-or-less worthless .
Take the one above , how much accurate information did the respondents have on what is actually happening there , the history of the conflict , what/who the * outside * interests are ? how can the ” average ” person who doesn’t take much interest in politics generally and foreign affairs in particular get any kind of truthful sense of what’s going on when the entire MSM ( alas , still the main – only – source of information for the majority of folk ) is so massively biased for one side and against the other ?
The same question applies to the Proxy War – does the ” average ” person have the remotest knowledge about , eg the cynical pantomime that the Minsk Accord always was ; the Maidan CIA sponsored coup that overthrew the democratically elected then President ; or the FACT that the U.S poured vast sums of money into that country to build-up it’s military and the latent hyper-Nationalist overtly Fascist elements that have poisoned that country’s social/political institutions with the express aim of inciting a response from Russia with the lunatic intent of regime change – the ultimate aim being to gain access to Russia’s vast mineral/agricultural wealth , take out an ” awkward obstacle to ” West ” ( ie U.S ) hegemony and strangle the nascent BRICS at birth : every such intention has failed , miserably , and the people paying the heaviest price are the Ukrainian people – though Russia has also suffered terrible losses .
Ask a similar question as the one above and it’s quite likely you would get an answer concluding Russia ( or in the ridiculous personalising propaganda ….Putin ) is the worse offender .
Would that putative verdict be the same if people knew what was really going ?
As Dan says , above , the public is deliberately kept in the dark about most things , and just about everything of imporatnce , either through blatantly one-sided reporting and/or total omission of relevant , counter-to-the-State-narrative information
Yes Robert, this is rather like asking a people who have been subject to colonisation if they think they are oppressed.
We can be sure that a considerable number will be suffering the pathology that comes with colonialism, and via that ‘colonial mindset’ they will readily deny their own oppression and reject their own liberation. ‘No’ voting Scots illustrate this condition quite well.
Which suggests it is quite possible for even half a population or more to make an illogical decision.
“they will readily deny their own oppression and reject their own liberation”
Is that right, Alf?
Is that what’s going on in Ukr right now?
You need to tell them to acknowledge their oppression, lay down their weapons, and accept their liberation from Moscow.
Chop chop.
And a wee word of advice in your shell-like. Maybes do it from here. What with the language difficulties and all, I foresee trouble if you try it face-to-face.
Alf,
You explain that rather well, if I may say so,
The newb people that inhabit the like the SNP, Labour, greens, lib dems, and tories are there for a reason,
Hardly a piece of paper can be shoved between them,
They have a job purpose,
To limit and control the people of Scotland, Ireland, Wales and now England too, and this is aided and abetted by EU laws and European courts,
Farage has recognised this takeover down south,
the problem in the other three nations is that we are still lagging behind due to propaganda diversity / division mantra’s to keep us arguing amonst ourselves meanwhile encouraging our local populations to be outnumbered,
Sawar and Usaf have plans for Scotland,
The most rebellious areas in Scotland are the high votes for indy areas such as Glasgow, Dundee/Arbroath, an some of the highlands.
This is where you witness the largest import of new people,
To be able to protect the ethnic people in Scotland, Scotland needs control of its borders, this can only come about by independence, and be astute when and how we vote in the only colonial system offered to us.
At some point, sooner rather than too late, the people in all four nations are going to have to work together to reclaim each one of their own borders control,
For the politicians and judges and the EU appear to be against that happening,
For border control to return, the people of all four nations have to agree to recognise that each nation is a individual Country and independent from the others,
In that way all the laws of bad governance, austerity, energy prices, wokeism, uncontrolled immigration, allowed crime by certain people… release of murderers and rapists from prisons, and farming and fishing automatically is breached and voided and reset in favour of the people of all four Countries,
The people have to decide, because the governments work for us, not the other waynaround,
Hamas and The Netanyahu govt. Are like a weird but bad version of a pair of organisms that need each other to continue.
A special flower that only one humming bird can feed off and pollinate.But shit.
Without Hamas killing Jews the need for Netanyahu disappears and kinda vice versa. Without thousands of dead Gazans Hamas lose their cause.
I do have some sympathy with the general view that antisemitism and anti Israel sentiment help authoritarian across the world to wave a bogeyman and keep the restive busy.
“Without Hamas killing Jews the need for Netanyahu disappears”
Indeed, Netanyahu agree; from ‘The Times Of Israel’, 8 October 2023.
“Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.”
It really doesn’t matter who started it, though if was probably Britain with Balfour. What matters is ending it now.
For some Scots the Muslim Terrorists fill the void left by the IRAs complete and utter defeat at the hands of FRU and their trusty super informers. For some any old Terrorist will do.
My problem with indy activists is their inability to focus on indy and to pointlessly drag all these “irrelevant issues” into things. I don’t really care. There are a lot of sad things in the world, yet some become more fashionable than others. It is not the job of the Scots to “fix everything” before getting on with their own business. In any case, does anyone think the IDF give a shit about what some dicks in the scot nat blogosphere think?
But this poll indicates little – there is the slack liberal fallacy of “each are as bad as the other” and also if you ask folks and give them 2 choices, most will think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Much of what folks think about jews/israel is formed by hollywood propaganda anyway.
– but since we are “going there” …
link to archive.ph
Now I want to try making a frosting out of midsummer nights dream and putting it on a vanilla cupcake.?
Alcohol,flowers and butterflies are a keeper.??
Thank you for the idea.??
This post reminded me of the angel that took on 185,000 Assyrian Warriors in 1 night, he turned them on one another.
link to prettyspooky.life
I’m amazed the Useless brown boy has time for such things. One would think he/she/it would be busy with their multi-sex, leftovers of missing cash, holistic orgy/sauna.
come on rev – a jewish fella, in israel, called LEE MORDECHAI does the exhaustive cataloguing of incidents and acts and you won’t publish the link?
– are you antisemitic or something?
link to archive.ph
What is happening in gaza is not some occasional ad hoc breaking of the laws of war by the IDF, it is terrorism (- they invented it!) – but it has long roots. Zionism is just one of their many projects, it has been completed and they are already onto the next stage, having established their “gang hut”, from which they cannot be extradited once their activities are discovered.
Every US congressman has an ADL handler, every political party in the UK and the west has a “friends of israel” caucus; they likely “have the polaroids” on every modern politician, all are blackmailed. And it is they who are the originators of every modern day societal disease – neoliberalism, pornography, gender madness, techno police state, feminism, mass immigration, multiculturalism – dig down to the bottom and you will find a tribalist. Yes, even all the tranny madness – it’s a jewish operation. Then – zelensky. The list would go on forever.
There are many good books to get you informed, many written by the jews themselves – controversy of zion by reed, belloc, finkelstein, james petras, shlomo sand, e michael jones, michael hoffmann, ariel toaff; even marx called them “hucksters”. But this is not taught in the schools, nor will you find them in a library.
There is no nuance where gaza is concerned, but that is not where the story began, nor will it end.
zionism is not the real issue here, it is small beer, and you have to get back to what dogged humanity for these past 20 centuries – “the jewish question”, you always have to go back to that. The jews did not become ethno-racial master race supremacists 5 minutes ago and thus decide to burn little kids – they went down that road about 450BC. (Oh yes, and they did sacrifice their own kids to Moloch, by throwing them into a furnace.)
One thing we know – “a homeland for the jews” – has not solved the problem in any way. First of all, most don’t go there, happy where they are; so much for being oppressed victims. What they do do is – when the heat is on them, and plod is coming round the corner, they “make aliyah” and head off to israel, which deports no one, nowhere, ever. This includes all manner of serious crimes and tel aviv is full of paedos on the lam. Some folks think janner and brittan might have faked their own deaths; if they did, you know where to look for them.
So, israel is now a hideout, an impregnable, nuclear armed gang hut. And there has been no peace, since they have been constantly attacking their neighbours since day one. They set the middle east ablaze, the faction who went there. And the faction who stayed in their host countries run their scams, which includes political subversion. Why do all the western leaders visit auschwitz and the wailing wall?
Because it is fealty. It is kissing the ring, it is showing true loyalty. They do not work for the people who vote for them.
Ezra Pound said “demoracy” was just a codeword for “control by the jews”. They chucked him in jail. Yet they all do sing from the same songsheet – the new german lad is an employee of BlackRock, not the german people. Blackrock owns everything, and is a conspiracy theory in plain sight. Run by a guy called “fink” – and yes, one of them. Every, bloody, time.
Makes me ashamed to be Scottish. I can feel an application for an I rish passport coming on. Imagine thinking in any way that any Palestinian ius responsible for this. Would the same people condemn the French Resistance for fighting off the Germans. Disgusted with my fellow Scots.
Agreed, the justification for killing children was already ingrained in the US and Is reali military long before 7/10/2023, with phrases like “fun size terrorists” or “mowing the grass before it gets long”
Happy to be Scottish,…and still, option ‘scale 5 – Both equally’ sums it up aptly for me.
This comment could be interpreted that if fellow Scots don’t fully support your view on this subject, you are ashamed of being Scottish?
Not really an attitude to win over support to independence?
Common sense alone, should be enough to support Scottish self determination.
Breastplate.
Most ordinary people, regardless of what country they live in, are not interested in politics but just want to live in peace and have a modest lifestyle.
I’m sure that most people who are directly affected by this don’t see this conflict as those thousands of miles away, including in this forum, have. If given the choice, they would take the one that allowed them the opportunities that everyone else enjoys rather than that which Western activists think they should take.
There are a lot of issues that directly affect Scotland that is a hill worth dying on but one that is happening thousands of miles away isn’t.
There is no way that people are going to be won over to independence by having the mindset of the OP.
By all means, support this issue on it’s own but it makes no sense to link it with Scottish independence.
Well, well WC.
Over 3 years of regular posts on here critical of our friends in Eastern Europe, claiming they had it coming, they poked the bear, and it was all their own responsibility, and all that time you’ve been feeling proud to be Scottish and approving towards your fellow Scots.
“Would the same people condemn the French Resistance for fighting off the Germans”
Ask some of your new Irish pals that one when you get there. They sufficiently approved of the war-time Germans to sit it out on the sidelines, while Occupied Europe was “cleansed” of its Jews, Communists, gays, gypsies, disabled, mentally deficient, and any other category of trouble maker or non-productive person who didn’t toe the Nazi line.
A quick internet search shows that large parts of that country is unaffected by that war.
“A quick internet search shows that large parts of that country is unaffected by that war”
Hmmm. I’ve just done a quick internet search myself.
6.8 million refugees have left the country.
3.7 million citizens are internally displaced.
13,500 civilian deaths (approximately).
19,000 children abducted (approximately).
100,000 military deaths (approximately).
400,000 military wounded (approximately).
20% of the country is under enemy occupation.
13% of the housing stock has been destroyed or damaged.
70% of the energy generation and distribution infrastructure has been destroyed or damaged.
$152 billion of war damage to December 2023.
$524 billion estimated reconstruction bill so far.
Can we safely conclude from the above and your post that there is more than just the one internet out there?
Yes we can!
Hatey McHateface
Surprise me and produce the same stats for the ongoing conflict in the M.E. that is being discussed in this article.
Its simply a matter of importing a war zone to where we live,
Making people take sides,
Divide and conquer.
That was what BLM was about, along with the multiple other headlines issues, climate change, gender issues and perverts jumping on the band wagon, just stop oil and energy price rises, taxing the locals and house land grabbing and providing houses to those that have never paid tax in this country,
to pay for people that have never worked, setting young and old adrift,
It is divide ( division of thoughts and people) and conquer, old as the hills and still work for Britains elites.
But wether independence of all four nations would put a stop to that, is up to the people, because the people are not the governance colonial divide and conquer system, they can and should think differently, because it is all of them that suffers together in each nation regardless.
People themselves generally get along well together providing deliberate bad governance and weaponised media are ignored.
Trying not to being drawn into divisional war choices options that are being fed to us constantly whatever the topic they try, and recognising that sometimes it is not the far away war, but what is being done and applied on your doorstep while your attention is taken else where,
That phrase comes to my mind, when mentally looking at Britain by taking a step back at all is going on below the radar.
Importing other peoples nations and cultures en masse that may eventually over whelm the locals
Divide and conquer over the four nations people becomes easy, Look squirrel,
While anas and usaf whish to delete democracy and most alternative voting choices for people,
I am for more political parties and better choices for the people,
Other wise we have a dispotic dictatorship governance,
And the people should be able to make their choices freely, , the SNP are excellent at excluding democracy of the people, but they do not stand alone nowadays,
Wether its labour or tories, they all refuse Scotlands escapes from colonialism and block the rights of self determination and now reform are doing the same old mantra,
Although they may lie before an election and dangle empty promise carrots just like the SNP do,
It is with a sense of deep felt loss of democracy for the millions of people who live on all these Islands of Britain, not just Scotland, when we have reached a political point whereby the governments think they own the people, rather than the people chosen their government via voting uncorrupted.
AS LONG AS the Hamas v Israel discourse is stoked and Israel i.e. Jews blamed for everything since the big bang the nature of the regimes in the Levant and the Islamic universe generally will never receive its due attention.
Pertinent factule, excluding Turkey and Malaysia, it is hard to find a «democratic» government, notional or otherwise, in that universe. Kleptocratic, nepotistic, militaristic, oligarchic models a plenty and no love lost between neighbours supposedly of the same belief system, Morocco v Algeria, East Libya v West Libya, Saudis v Yemen and the internecine sectarian or cultural squabbling in Pakistan, Sudan, Nigeria, Iraq, Somalia, Syria, Lebanon inter alia and the perennial Arab v Persian divide.
The idea that Hamas «leaders» slum it in luxury accom. in Qatar is of course scurrilous lying by those J’s.
Another factule: Article 7 of the Hamas Covenant.
«The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees, the stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla i.e Servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him»
On Gaza some in the west appear both eyeless and clueless.
Israel is considered an ally of the UK, US and the West in general.
The media in these countries will reflect that.
People in general echo their media.
Media is specifically used to influence the populace.
People form their world views from the media that their exposed to.
It is completely unsurprising that many people in this country can be convinced that what is happening in Gaza at this present moment, is not gen0cide.
As there is absolutely no excuse for gen0cide, it is extremely important for their argument that they believe it is not gen0cide. The media facilitates this belief. They must also avoid the actual definition of gen0cide.
For the avoidance of doubt, when I speak about the media, I mean the MSM, every single one of them. (There seemed to be some confusion further up the comments about which ones)
Israel is considered an ally of the UK, US and the West in general.
The media in these countries will reflect that.
People in general echo their media.
Media is specifically used to influence the populace.
People form their world views from the media that their exposed to.
It is completely unsurprising that many people in this country can be convinced that what is happening in Ga za at this present moment, is not gen0cide.
As there is absolutely no excuse for gen0cide, it is extremely important for their argument that they believe it is not gen0cide. The media facilitates this belief. They must also avoid the actual definition of gen0cide.
For the avoidance of doubt, when I speak about the media, I mean the MSM, every single one of them. (There seemed to be some confusion further up the comments about which ones)
Is real is considered an ally of the UK, US and the West in general.
The media in these countries will reflect that.
People in general echo their media.
Media is specifically used to influence the populace.
People form their world views from the media that their exposed to.
It is completely unsurprising that many people in this country can be convinced that what is happening in Ga za at this present moment, is not gen0cide.
As there is absolutely no excuse for gen0cide, it is extremely important for their argument that they believe it is not gen0cide. The media facilitates this belief. They must also avoid the actual definition of gen0cide.
For the avoidance of doubt, when I speak about the media, I mean the MSM, every single one of them. (There seemed to be some confusion further up the comments about which ones)
Defo not a gen0cide if the side supposedly being gen0cided could stop it tomorrow, but choose not to do so. Get your history books out. Go online and do some research. When ever did any gen0cide have an off ramp?
An easy one too. Release the hostages, come out with their hands up. Go into exile somewhere abroad to live quietly with their extorted wealth.
There’s a few that get this. Just as there’s a few that see that for the Humous boys, the more of their own people who die, and the more lingering their deaths, the better it is for them.
Leaving us on the outside to wonder about the likes of you – can people really be so daft? Naw. There’s something else in play all right.
Despite what folk say everyone thinks of Farage and Reform (and I have to say I won’t vote for them or him) I suspect that they will do quite well in both Hamilton and next year unless the established parties start thinking like the actual folk they represent.
Unless the established parties start actually doing something about the issues that folk actually care about rather that just jawing and and attempting to demonise reform I think they are in for a shock.
As an aside, do you know anyone who actually agrees with the unfettered immigration policy the SNP keep spouting as policy, I don’t!
Possibly the worst advert for “diversity” is Palestine; sure, let them all in, they just want to grow oranges on the kibbutz and study the torah (arm yourself to the teeth and train for insurgency and warfare) … then, skipping forward a generation, the indigenous folks find themselves corralled into open air prison camps and bombed mercilessly, for fun, dodging cluster munitions as they “make the case for one-state civic nationalism to the soft Noes of the new palestinians of the IDF”.
It could happen to you, become an outcast in your own country.
Exactly so!
You’re confused, Confused.
You’ve allocated the term “indigenous folks” to the wrong tribe.
You’re partially right with your criticisms of diversity though. Whilst it rarely works all that well, it spectacularly fails every time one of the diverse groups comprises followers of the “religion of peace”.
Ironic, isn’t it? It’s almost as if they’re trying to pull the wool over our eyes. There should be a word for it – I like the sound of taqiyya – is that word taken?
I am a bit puzzled by what is meant by diversity. I mean, having diversity when it comes to reproduction is a good thing surely when compared to inbreeding? Or, a business or institution that wants to reach different communities will do that easier with a diverse workforce.
I wonder if folk really understand what having, say, a diverse workforce means or how common it is. Having a mix of women and men and some that are not white, is hardly woke madness. In the department I work in we have not had a non-white person work there in the 25 years that I have. We would love it if there were as it would bring a perspective and input we want but cannot have. The reason we have no-one as hardly anyone non-white ever applies for vacant posts.
@ Southernbystander says:2 June, 2025 at 9:13 pm
“Having a mix of women and men and some that are not white, is hardly woke madness”
Funny you should say that.
I worked in an organisation that was multinationally based. With the onset of Covid, and the adoption of Teams for meetings, we finally got the chance to put faces to the names of our overseas colleagues.
What did we find? Wall to wall brown males, all within a year or two either side of their median age.
No women, ethnic minorities, or wrinklies for them.
Naw. They were very happy to leave that kind of diversity nonsense to the distracted and gullible eejits whose jobs they were in the process of stealing.
Are you still peddling the 3000 year old property deal between legendary persons and imaginary beings?
– the story about the schizo old geezer who tries to kill his son then thinks better of it?
Sounds legit. Do you have the paperwork? Let me see – that would be the ark of the covenant. Apparently that is now in a warehouse of the us govt – indiana jones recovered it. Hollywood movies, Spielberg, truth and stories, it’s all the same to those folks.
Ashkenazi aren’t even from the middle east – the genetics prove it. Even Ben Hurion thought the palestinians were the descendants of the biblical hebrews who had converted first to christianity, then to islam.
The muslamics “taqqiya” is amateur hour compared to the talmud – an encyclopaedia of lying and “how to cheat the goy”.
Diversity is not simply related to colour, it is also reflected in different ethnicity’s, cultures, languages, beliefs, religions, and national identities etc, with each group also holding to differing values.
Cultural imperialism and colonialism involves the culture of one group dominating another, which is why the desire for ‘national independence is a cultural emotion’ (Fanon).
If we wish to continue to have international cultures and hence global diversity we need firstly to protect our own very different national cultures; for us Scots that means we must always prioritise oor verra ain Scottish cultur an langage.
Which also means teaching the Scots language is essential, something that the British state and its colonial administrators aye refuse to do in their quest to dominate us and eradicate oor cultur and national identity!
You’re confused again Confused.
I’m guided by the Roman histories – written records from the first century AD that have survived down to the present day.
There’s a reason why the Romans called the place Judaea. Most people can work it out – but maybe you need somebody to give you an elocution lesson.
The only one peddling anything here is your dealer. From the state of you, I’m thinking he’s cutting it with something poisonous.
Loving your defence of the religion of peace in a post castigating belief in “legendary persons and imaginary beings”. Why don’t you tell us how many virgins each martyr gets on entering paradise?
the northern kingdom was called israel, the southern kingdom judea, from the tribe of judah – so what?
90% of modern jews are ashkenazi, the other 10% are sephardics, the latter who are very close to palestinians. What the romans said may be right or wrong, but today we have genetics. Something israel was very interested in since they wanted to make diseases that targetted arabs only – they got a shock when they discovered the relative distance between themselves and thus the lack of any claim, even by their tenuous standards.
So, even if you think everything in the OT is right and those stories have legal claim – and that is a stretch, you are handing the place to the descendants of people from distance, likely the steppes. No relation.
It was always a great mystery, the appearance of large numbers of ashkenazi jews in eastern europe, the standard story being the expulsion by the romans; the current thinking is this is not the case – the romans didn’t expel anyone because they were in the empire business and needed people to work the land and pay taxes. No people, no taxes.
I have given you too much credit, I never thought you were this thick, though maybe the “Higher” and “lower” episode should have told me something
genetics trumps roman documents and says the ashkenazi – the claimed true owners of that land – have no business being there
southerner – have you been living under a rock
“diversity is our greatest strength”
has been repeated by corporate and middle class drones for the past decade.
the idea of diversity being alluded to is the “hybrid vigour” (increase in fitness) of breeding populations and as you point out, the prevention of inbreeding.
But it’s a bait and switch – this is what europe is getting – not exactly brain surgeons this lot, though their blade skills are impressive
link to x.com
but worse than this – the basic requirement for a country is a common base, a sense of identity, which is destroyed if you think that arbitrarily mixing more and more widely different folks together is the way to solve all problems. In fact, all you are doing is importing the world’s problems onto your own doorstep.
link to archive.ph
So how do you sort out the difference? It is a potential baby and bathwater scenario.
Diversity also means diversity in sex, class, age, region raised in, abled / disabled and we know that the dominance of middle-aged, middle class, able-bodied males in many professions (where there is no special reason of ability they should be) has been the norm for a long time due to the hegemonic power they traditionally have, [i]but much less so now[/i]. I hate the male and stale trope as it is crass, but the fact remains that group has no inalienable right to dominate everything and there should be no assumption things are better for [i]everyone[/i] if they do, not least women, the working class, Scots!
How have some things changed? Not because they have willingly given up some of their power, but because measures have been taken to shift the dial due to endless campaigning to make it happen (by, yes, what many here now would call the wokerati). You cannot just do nothing as those with power always cling on to it, something surely very familiar to Scottish independence supporters and yes, Alf, colonialism.
Is there anything positive about Scottish Independence on the horizon,
VOTE I4I (Independents4Independence) ISP or Sovereignty the political party for freedom from the WM Engerlish parliament , JOIN SALVO & Liberation.Scot for Direct Democracy, TRUTH & REAL SOVEREIGNTY
An interpretation of this poll could be that more than half of the Scottish population thinks that one side in the M.E. conflict is responsible but also more than half of the Scottish population thinks the other side is responsible.
It’s always been a very divisive topic which I have learned to steer well clear of. I appreciate that people have strong views about this but would it not make more sense to support this as an individual rather than someone who also supports Scottish independence?
An interpretation of this poll could be that many people are misinformed about the ME conflict and think there are only two sides.
Breastplate, people are more informed on this subject than you think and as a result, are apathetic towards it due to it’s complexity and no real resolution in sight.
The trouble is most people get their OPINIONS on what is going on in Palestine from the mainstream media which also spouts all of the LIES and PROPAGANDA re the FAKE scamdemic, FAKE Global Warming – changed to Climate Change because the planet has actually been COOLING for decades, totally FAKE/CREATED Cost of Living/Financial Crisis SCAM etc while many of the totally USELESS politicians spout their opinion about all of this the totally corrupt puppet leaders know what is going on and the agenda behind it all as they are all helping to bring in that agenda while keeping the dumb masses divided and fighting each other instead of actually using their brains and getting together to put a stop to that agenda and making things better for everyone instead of the few that this SCAM system that we are all born into serves for their benefit.
The Israeli government LIES about everything that is going on with their totally FAKE Hamas rocket attacks on Israel with their scaring of their own population by showing their Iron Dome missiles firing off into the sky to take out these totally FAKE Hamas rockets with only the smoke trails from their own Iron Dome missiles showing going up into the sky and then blowing up at a certain height with them claiming that they have taken out these IMAGINARY Hamas rockets that have absolutely NO smoke trails. Even when they do show these FAKE Hamas rockets actually hit the ground they are actually SMOKE bombs that cause NO damage.
The Israeli government does this to scare their people into backing them bombing the Palestinians out of their houses and land just like when the US and British Governments did 9/11 and 7/7 etc to scare their populations into backing them taking out all of those Muslim countries that were not under the control of the Vatican/Rothschild’s SCAM banking system that is DELIBERATELY destroying ALL of our economies as part of their New World Order – One World Communist Social Credit/Digital Currency Government with NO countries and the World Government being the UN. Hamas is a creation of Israel, US, UK etc and controlled by them just like Al Qaeda and ISIS etc were as well.
There NEVER was a nation if Israel and just like everything else in the Bible and every other religious book all total LIES stolen from more ancient and pagan books etc. The 12 Tribes of Israel were just simply the 12 signs of the ZODIAC just like the 12 Disciples and all 12’s in the Bible etc and the Lost Tribe are just simply the 13th sign of the ZODIAC. People beLIEve in religions because they beLIEve in LIES and the laugh is the Israelis calling anyone antisemitic who calls out all of their LIES when they are just Semite Arabs who beLIEved the Jewish religious LIES stealing the land from Semite Arabs who just happen to beLIEve the LIES of the Islamic or Christian religious LIES. ALL of these OCCULT Religions and Secret Societies – the EXACT same thing – were create by the same Mafias as divide and control and they have been getting away with it for thousands of years because most people are just simply gutless sheep who have got to be in a cult no matter what religion , sport etc.
WW2 was all LIES as well – funny how they do not want the world to know that over 150,000 Jews served in the Waffen SS all the way up to the rank of General, as did 90,000 Muslims, 40,000 Cossacks, 25,000 from India and tens of thousands from many countries all over the world including other European countries. Then again these people all knew the TRUTH about why Germany became the rich powerhouse it did and its people ended up being the best off they have ever been with full employment etc and that is because Hitler arrested and jailed the bankers and took over their banks and printed his own debt and interest and inflation FREE money. Italy under Mussolini, and Japan started to do the same and so Britain and France engineered WW2 to take these countries out by signing a treaty with Poland who started to ethnically cleanse and MURDER the Germans living in the German areas handed over to Poland after WW1 so that Hitler would get the blame for starting the war when he went in to save his countrymen. Of course they are hiding the FACT that Hitler knew what they were up to and even after he over ran Europe and pushed the British/French back to Dunkirk he stopped and offered to retreat back to the Pre-Versailles German border with NO strings attached but the corrupt puppet Churchill refused because they could not let Hitler continue with his debt and interest and inflation FREE economy in case the dumb masses in all of the other countries woke up and started to question why their governments were not doing the same.
As I have said before there is a reason that government means MIND CONTROL and they use the corrupt controlled mainstream media as part of that.
According to Wiki, if the population of Israel contained those from Gaza and the West Bank, about 50% of that population would be Jewish.
I wonder if the ordinary people of Gaza and the West Bank where given a choice between becoming part of Israel with full rights as other Israeli citizens or an independent Palestine, what would they choose?
To be clear at the outset, I have equal disdain for the Islamist nutjobs of Hamas and Jewish supremacist scum like Netanyahu and the Likud Party, so I understand where The Rev is coming from, but as he and others acknowledge, the issue is so much more nuanced than many like to admit. I speak for many in the West when I say my anger is proportionally higher towards Israel because our governments and media are overwhelmingly on their side, financially, morally and militarily. T
Another side issue that is overlooked is that while the power of lobby groups like AIPAC are long past the point of dispute, liberal Jewish groups have been instrumental in bringing about the racial divides in our countries. On one hand we have the likes of Barbra Spectre, Alan Shatter, New Labour (Straw, Mandelson, the Miliband brothers et al) campaigning vociferously for open borders and multiculturalism for the West, while for Israel they broadly take the opposite stance and fight for Israel as an ethnostate (not a religious state, but one of blood and soil lineage).
Nationalism for Israel = essential, victim state.
Nationalism for Western countries = boo, Hitler.
Valid points Chris, reminding us that colonialism is defined as ‘hateful racism’ (Cesaire) which aims to obliterate native cultures in annexed territories, Scotland being another example.
Frantz Fanon highlighted the difference between the colonizer’s ‘aggressive racism’ and the oppressed native group’s necessary ‘defensive racism’, the latter seeking only to protect its culture from discrimination and obliteration.
Try having a poll that takes Hamas out of the question and replaces it with Palestine. You may get a very different answer.
Yes, and I’d also have gotten a different answer if I’d replaced “Hamas” with “a banana”. What’s your point?
I understand the point you’re attempting to make. However, the question asked by the poll is accurately put.
Here’s why:
The Palestinian territories consist of the Gaza strip and the West Bank which are divided into three areas of control under the 1995 Oslo II Accord.
Area A: Most of Gaza and roughly 20 percent of the West Bank. It’s the most densely populated.
It’s designated as fully Palestinian controlled under the Oslo Accord.
Area B: Is rural and covers about 25% of the West Bank.
Israelis and Palestinians cooperate on security here, but the PA (Palestinian Authority, officially the Palestinian National Authority), not Hamas, manages all civil affairs.
Area C: Is the remaining land and is mostly pastoral. It has most of the West Bank’s natural resources and is under full Israeli control.
Since 2006, the Gaza Strip has been controlled by Hamas not the PA.
The PA comprises most major Palestinian factions. Factions such as Fatah and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). It excludes militant groups such as Hamas and PIJ.
After taking control of Gaza, Hamas established political, military, and legal institutions entirely separate from those in the West Bank.
Asking where, between the Israeli govt and Hamas, it is thought the greater responsibility lies for the current conflict in Gaza is a valid question – although in my view impossible to answer objectively without a detailed knowledge of the history of the region going back more than two millennia.
Which is why there is a cluster of responses around number 5 for ‘I don’t really know so I’m going to say they’re both to blame’.
As I said…it’s complicated; and the more you dig into the history of it all the more complicated it all gets.
I am not qualified or have the requisite detailed knowledge to accurately express a view on this subject beyond that of decrying the tragic and terrible loss of life.
Let’s not forget Hamas have a stated aim of wiping out Israel, it’s in their Charter.
True, which obviously means we all have to dismember toddlers or at the very least, cheer it on vociferously.
What’s in Israel’s? Cause currently it involves wiping out not just Palestinians but all of its neighbours too including Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Somalia and Sudan. They’ve already installed puppet regimes in Egypt, Saudi & Jordan.
You’ve been had. It’s a colonial enterprise. Not a wee safe country promised by an imaginary being to be filled with immigrants but colonialists intent on plonking themselves right bang in the middle of the lucrative middle east – barking orders & being antisocial.
It’s ironic really that it’s the only place in the whole world that cheers on immigration taking over the place, expanding & celebrates them taking up arms to eradicate the indigenous population living there. That can only be explained by racism cause the same knuckle draggers certainly wouldn’t put up with that shit in their own country as they hypocritically call for flights to Rwanda & cry for Reform to do something lol..
Well the root cause is illegal occupation of other people’s land, clearly. Boudicca committed atrocities against the Romans, ‘red’ Indians committed atrocities against European ‘settlers’, Nelson Mandela’s ANC committed atrocities against white authorities in South Africa…the Viet Cong against US forces. Who was on who’s land? And Hamas aren’t the only ones fighting Israel..there’s over a dozen other groups. Some have Christian founders, it’s heehaw about hating Jews. If Israel turned atheist or even to Islam overnight but kept on stealing land, bulldozed homes, shot livestock, burned down crops,poisoned water supplies, vandalised schools, kidnapped children etc etc they would still face resistance to it.
Zionism was only invented in the 1890’s.
Israel was created by the UN in the 1940’s.
The enduring predominant excuse for the creation of the modern state of Israel is that the democratically elected government of Germany in the 1930’s and early 1940’s killed a huge number of Jewish people, and therefore a lot of Jewish people needed to take over the lands of the Palestinian people – so they would forever have a safe place to live.
Logically, if that is the argument, the Jewish people of the world should be granted the entire land of Germany as their forever safe place – as simple and direct compensation for the crimes against Jewish people committed against them by Germans.
Germany becomes the eternal safe home for all Jewish people.
Problem solved.
the UN did not create Israel.
On November 29, 1947 UN Resolution 181 (II) was passed recommending;
1. Ending British rule in Palestine.
2. Partitioning the land into two states.
3. Giving Jews 55% of the land.
4. Making Jerusalem an international city.
The Arabs refused this generous deal to surrender over half their land to another people.
On May 14th 1948 as the British Mandate ended, David Ben-Gurion unilaterally declared the establishment of the State of Israel despite the objections of the Palestinian population and crucially *without* UN authorisation.
The enduring excuse for the creation of the modern state of Israel is that the geographical location of modern day Israel is where the Jews lived for centuries until the Romans ethnically cleansed them.
The Jews rightful claim to the land of Israel, based on first ownership, is not one that reasonable and rational people can dispute.
Many people do dispute it, of course they do, but they forfeit the right to be considered reasonable and rational.
It’s an elementary but instinctively typical mistake in politics to divide the world into friends and enemies across all issues.
People see “annoying woke fannies” campaigning for Palestine, and they lean to the Israeli side. Then they end up minimizing the genocide and denying the basic justice of the Palestinian cause. Take Thunberg for example. Is she annoying? Yes. Is she brave as hell for joining the aid ship to Gaza? Yes.
If you carry on with crude tribalism in politics you’ll be manipulated forever. And the Israel lobby are very, very good at manipulation.
That conflict is an unresolved sectarian strife, exactly like Glasgow, Northern Ireland and many other throughout history.
They will not end until a stronger third party swoops in and whoops everyone’s arse raw.
Wait for the US to lose its patience with Likud and the Zionist lobby.
We’re inching close.