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Wings Over Scotland

29 Years Later

Posted on April 03, 2018 by

You’ve got to give them credit for audaciously shameless timing.

3 April 1989

3 April 2018

Still, though 29 years (and counting) is quite a while, it’s not even nearly a record.

The Scottish Parliament took them 111 years:

And as for the House Of Lords, well, this poster is from 1910 and they’ve promised to abolish it at just about every election ever since, but we’re pretty sure they’ll get round to it the next time they’re in power, right?

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  1. 03 04 18 20:56

    29 Years Later | speymouth

94 to “29 Years Later”

  1. Fairliered says:

    Remember that time to deliver = complexity x desire / IQ.
    As they are using James Kelly’s IQ for the calculation, and anything divided by zero equals infinity, don’t expect anything to happen anytime soon.

  2. Athanasius says:


  3. Croompenstein says:

    I could weep..

  4. Street Andrew says:

    I guess some things just shouldn’t be rushed (?)

  5. Thepnr says:

    Labour in Scotland forever promising to deliver and forever failing. Only Independence can deliver that which Labour promise.

    You know that now Labour voters, right?

  6. Artyhetty says:

    Labour, standing up for the working people.Sorry for the negative comment so early on here, but Labour are troughing, lying, scheming, stealing gits. Labour have kept Scotland poor, and begging for a very, very long time. They kept most of industrial England poor as well, factories galore, with people struggling to put in their kids’ mouths.

    What did Labour ever do for you? That should be the question next referendum, among many other questions. They have a heck of a lot to answer for, that’s for sure.

    They say never trust a Tory, I say, never ever trust Labour either. Their faux socialism and pretendy support for the people is just sickening. Look at what they didn’t do in Scotland.

    How many years did the people of Scotland keep voting for Labour? Very sad.

  7. Artyhetty says:

    Meant people struggling to put food in their kids’ mouths, and I should know being from NE Eng!

  8. Rock says:

    The BBC is Scotland’s enemy number one, followed by Scottish Labour.

    Before we can obliterate Labour, we have to obliterate the BBC.

  9. Dr Jim says:

    The asset stripping of Scotland now that they’ve got their English Brexit is likely to gain rapid pace now so all the promises they ever made and didn’t keep are pretty meaningless now and are only stopgaps for the more easily deluded till they’ve won, and you know what the Labour party will be moaning to the SNP *What you gonna do about it*

    Of course we’re all paranoid us Independence types and it’s all just a big coincidence


  10. heedtracker says:

    Thiiiiings can never get better, can never get betterrrrrrr…

    Charlatans, just like their beeb Scotland bootboys, why don’t they just join the ColoneL Ruth Cons party? Not BBC Scotland, they’re already paid up members.

  11. starlaw says:

    Labour have never undid any Tory anti union acts. They are the stop gap Tory party, to be voted in when Tories luck runs out.
    Keep the seats warm till the Tories get back again. Labour have conned the working classes for a hundred years now assisted by the MSM surely we in Scotland will not let them near power again.

  12. Morgatron says:

    Great to see how quickly the red tories get things done. Shower of usless shit. No doubt Red Scarf Lenny will know a Mrs Mclafferty who wrote him a letter wanting to know why the SNP never abolished the Lords in 1888.

  13. Ken500 says:

    It would be difficult to abolish all zero rate contacts. Throwing out the baby with the bath water. Many zero rate contracts are done in an exchange which can help people who otherwise could not get into work. Nursing banks, relief workers, main carers etc, temporary working agencies, self employed etc could all be considered zero rate contracts. Workers only working when they want. Or are able to work because of other commitments or responsibilities. Many self employed workers could be considered to be on zero rate contracts.

    It would be difficult to frame Laws which would be inclusive of temporary contracts of value and exclusive of bad contracts of exploitation. Some people benefit from temporary contracts. In many cases they pay higher remuneration. They do not cover holiday pay or sickness etc because higher remuneration can be given to cover these expenses. E,g. Nursing agencies can pay above the odds. Extra as paid by public bodies. To cover above what would be the basics. It can get people into full time reputable work. Some people have been on temporary contracts which suited them. Without them they could not work. By comparison bad zero rate contracts are fewer in number in the workplace.

    Like some Laws, it would be difficult to frame the Law just to target exploitive contracts which did not define or include some excellent temporary contracts. Some which pay above the norm and suit both the participant and the employer. Involved in the contract. How is the Law to be defined?

  14. Highland Wifie says:

    But will the young Corbynistas take any heed?
    Socialist utopia for the whole UK just around the corner…..aye right.

  15. Bob Mack says:

    Labour have the wrong name. They should be “The Jam Tomorrow Party”

  16. geeo says:

    Corbyn is pretty much hated by the parliamentary labour party, yet liked by the membership (enough for members to stick it up the PLP twice).

    You do not have to go very far to realise labour are not the answer to ..well…anything.

    A cynic, suspicious mind, might well think the current media assassination of Corbyn is a prelude to another Snap GE, possibly around August/September, just in time for the vote on the EU “deal”.

    A big tory majority with no need for the DUP, just before that vote, would sure suit the tories on more than one front, and the only sacrifice would be Treeza.

    A cynic might think that…rightly or wrongly.

  17. Iain mhor says:

    Obliterate the BBC hmm. Any cunning plan for that? There are a few global media enterprises and not a few nation states trying that. Not making too much of a dent there.
    Not that I disagree with the general sentiment of Beeb=bad but I think it’s a tad easier to slice Labour thinly than bring down a state media empire. I’m all ears though if anyone has a plan – I’m free Thursday afternoon. Oh wait, the Beeb are already dicing Labour into pieces – Now I’m just confused… The enemy of my enemy is…nahhhh nearly had me going for a minute. How about ‘Know thine enemy’ instead – OK that would be all of them but that’s a lot of fronts. Would it be easier to consolidate and pour energy into propping up our own forces? Yes, quite possibly at this point.
    The eternal dilemma – focus on discrediting our enemies and lose our focus and ideals – like the Tories & Labour in Scotland – Split the forces and risk being weak on two fronts, or just get the heid doon and push your own agenda while the dogs tear at one another? Tough call – I need a lie doon.

  18. Bobp says:

    And some people in Scotland still believe this lying liebor sh**e..(shakes head).

  19. Chas says:

    Now is not the time

  20. heedtracker says:

    Tough call – I need a lie doon.

    Think it’s called, dysfunction. London BBC are after JC like there’s no tomorrow, Glasgow BBC are after the SNP Out like their jobs depend on it.

    So when they do all collide in a big melange of BBC vote toryboy propaganda, its like watching one episode of Game of Thrones only, out 8 series, god only knows what they’re up to.

  21. Another Union Dividend says:

    O/T but following calls for an SNP rebuttal unit, it is time that Indy supporters (and SNP members for that matter) can search for SNP answers to the regular attacks which have the drip drip effect of undermining Scottish self confidence.

    For example, in recent days we have seen several attacks on Bed blocking from the usual suspects but a search on SNP web site for Bed Blocking produces nothing whatsoever far less a response to recent criticism.

    As we know a Google search only highlights the most frequent anti SNP newspaper articles on any given subject so further strengthens the case for an SNP fact finding search tool for those of us who want to engage with yoons using verifiable facts.

    Sometimes I can see things on twitter but that depends on who you follow and can’t be easily found retrospectively.

    Wings is good but again not every attack is dealt with or available by searching.

    I understand the SNP always want to put out a positive message but if we want to win IndyRef2 the SNP must get this sort of info out to the foot solders who will be willing attack dogs (on policy not on personalities).

  22. Hamish100 says:

    We do not have a free news media in Scotland/ UK.

    Fox/Sky/Murdoch/Barclays/BT/ITV/BBC/Johnston Press/Hootsmon/ Johnston Press/ Mirror Group and the rest. If somebody pulls the plug–and whose to say they wouldn’t this site would disappear in a nanosecond. I am sure there will be a contingency plan sitting waiting.

  23. BrianW says:

    There must be a mathematical equation that determines the time between Labour announcing some policies and enacting those policies.

    Something very complicated looking but where the answer is always Zero or Never.

  24. Rock says:

    Iain mhor says:
    3 April, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    “Oh wait, the Beeb are already dicing Labour into pieces”

    London Labour or its Scottish Parish Branch?

    Pravda GB is the propaganda unit of the British State. It will always dice any threat to the Establishment.

    In Scotland, Pravda GB is behind the party most likely to preserve the union.

    That was Scottish Labour for decades, before the second most dishonest and nasty person in Scotland led a resurgence of the Tories (the most stupid people on earth being in Scotland).

    As long as Pravda GB exists in Scotland, there is zero chance of Scotland becoming independent, in my humble opinion.

  25. crazycat says:

    @ Brian W

    See the very first comment on this thread:

  26. HandandShrimp says:

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Labour’s intentions are often good…the journey’s end sometimes like a Bosch painting.

  27. louis.b.argyll says:

    Aye, progress with Labour is so slow..that I nearly fell asleep finishing this sentence.

  28. BJ says:

    In 1995 in Brighton, Tony Blair said that when Labour came to power they would abolish zero hours contracts.

    Labour lies don’t date. They just move on to the next generation hoping labour voters are still as stupid as their parents and grandparents were!

  29. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    and the words of James Maxton

    “Give us our parliament in Scotland. We will start with no traditions. We will start with ideals. We will start with purpose, with courage. We will start with the aim and the object that there will be 134 men and women pledged to 134 Scottish constituencies, to spend their whole brain power, their whole courage and their whole soul in making Scotland into a country in which we can take people from all the nations of the earth and say : this is our land, this is our Scotland ,these are our men, our works, our women and children: can you beat it?”

  30. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Full marks to the Rev – his comment: “Sclaff” which he tweeted after that CR7 bicycle kick goal, was pure dead brilliant Scottish fitba fan banter.

    I suppose it’s proof of the old Gary Player one-liner: the more I practice, the luckier I get.

  31. frogesque says:

    Aye Richt!

    For what it’s worth unless and until SLab divorce themselves from their London overlords they will be a spent force in Scotland. Why be a Red Tory light (correct spelling) when you can have the ultra true blue Tory Unionists?

    As for the EBC, there are ways to divert them. Don’t pay their tax, highlight their lies and disinformation. Make the news they can’t ignore.

    To steal an advertising slogan, “don’t be a can’t – be a can!”

  32. frogesque says:

    Above, divert should be subvert

  33. twathater says:

    Bob Mack 8.44 pm No BoB they should be renamed The Lying Bas*ards to the working class party , as an oldie I remember their multiple lies and broken promises by ALL the troughers who betrayed the people of Scotland , this is compounded by the betrayal of trade unionists in collusion with liebour and unions . The very fact that supposed socialists have deliberately and comprehensively lied and misinformed the electorate to further their own ends highlights the contempt they have for their supporters

    In my opinion Labour could disappear up their own jacksies and no one would notice they had gone

  34. Bob Mack says:

    @Twas hater,

    Can’t remember who said it but “Tomorrow is the greatest Labour saving device ever”

    In the case of Labour that is very true. Promise the moon but deliver a firefly.

  35. Daisy Walker says:

    Hello to all, big hello to ‘flechie’ Peffers 😉

    The Labour party – the left cheek oh the same skelpit erse, and ayewaes huz been.

    O/T for anyone with friends/family in the emergency services, or indeed other shift workers.

    The EU brought in the working time directive which had a direct impact on those working shifts, especially night shifts.

    The Police (who are legally not allowed a union, unlike the fire service or ambulance) are not exempt from complying with the terms of WTD, although they can apply for specific exemptions depending on certain circumstances, for obvious reasons given the nature of the job.

    Although it never came to court, the implementation of the WTD, was a big influence in changing the shift patterns from the 7 earlies, 3 days off, 7 nights, 2 days off, 7 lates, 2 days off, with 2 monthly rest days acrued, and rostered over a 2 month period.

    Commonly officers were cited for court on the rest days and it was not uncommon for them to go 16 working days without a day off.

    This shift pattern was deeply unpopular and proven unhealthy. Surprisingly, it did not breach the WTD initially, as over the 2 month period with the allocation of the 2 monthly rest days, it amounted to a 40 hour week…. what caused/pressured the change was the ‘guidance’ on night time working (from memory) not to be more than 4 consecutive nights duty in a row. (That change came about roughly 8 years ago).

    As change came in, there were no ‘test cases’ put to court, so pinpointing the exact moment and cause of change is hard to do. Dare I suggest that its possible quite a lot of the positive improvements to our health and safety / workers rights brought about by EU legislation is like that.

    So, if you know anyone in any of the emergency services (particularly the Polis, who might think WTD does not apply to them), the question they need to ask themselves with Brexit, is do they feel lucky, well do they? Cause with that shower of bams down the road in WM they’re going to need all the luck they can get, and god knows what type of shift pattern they’re going to be working after.

    Another very interesting article over on re chemicals and REACH. Well worth a look.

    Cheerie to all. Yes we can and now we must.

  36. Legerwood says:

    Another Union Dividend @ 9.10pm
    It depends how you frame the Google search as to whether you end up with nothing but newspaper reports or whether you get factual info on the topic.

    If you want information about the NHS in Scotland such as weekly A&E waiting times or monthly Delayed discharge data for NHS Scotland then every Tuesday Information Services Division Scotland publishes a raft of statistical reports on various NHS activities.

    I posted information on 31st March 2018 about DD because I had noticed something on WOS Twitter about it.

    Delayed Discharges. January 2018. Published 6 March 2018
    Main Points
    In January 2018, 38,700 days were spent in hospital by people whose discharge was delayed. This is a decrease of 12% compared with 44,222 days in January 2017.
    The average number of beds occupied per day in January 2018 was 1,248. In December, the daily average was 1,305.

    At the January 2018 census point, there were 1,332 people delayed. This is a decrease of 10% compared with 1,482 people delayed at the census point in January 2017.

    Of those delayed at the January 2018 census point, 1,022 were delayed more than three days. The most common reason for delays over three days was health and social care reasons (764), followed by complex needs (233), then patient and family-related reasons (25).

    Worth noting that the figures for January were when the flu outbreak was at its height.

    The trend continues downward.

    Delayed Discharge February 2018 published 3rd April
    Main Points
    In February 2018, 38,394 days were spent in hospital by people whose discharge was delayed. This is a decrease of 5% compared with 40,246 days in February 2017.
    The average number of beds occupied per day in February 2018 was 1,371. In January, the daily average was 1,248.

    At the February 2018 census point, there were 1,297 people delayed. This is a decrease of 10% compared with 1,439 people delayed at the census point in February 2017.

    Of those delayed at the February 2018 census point, 1,077 were delayed more than three days. The most common reason for delays over three days was health and social care reasons (798), followed by complex needs (253), then patient and family-related reasons (26).

  37. Daisy Walker says:

    And another thing (if the Ref lets me) to the tune of ‘What a friend we have in Jesus’

    What’s the point in voting Labour,
    They will only just Abstain,
    Except when claiming their expenses,
    then these troughers know know shame.

    They were only flipping houses,
    they were only starting Wars,
    Not a Socialist amongst them,
    Sold out to the House of Lords.

    Whats the point in voting Labour,
    they will only just abstain,
    Red and Blue they stand together,
    red and blue they are the same…

    They blame the poor and the disabled,
    they blame the migrants at the Docks
    But most of all when all else fails them,
    they blame it on the bloody Jocks.

    What’s the point in voting Labour,
    they will only just abstain,
    Except when Voting for their pay rise,
    then these troughers know know shame.

    They were only flipping houses,
    they were only starting wars,
    not a socialist amongst them,
    Sold out to the house of lords.

    What a friend we have in Corbyn,
    Keeping Trident on the Clyde
    And where he stands on good old Brexit,
    is with the Tories, side by side.

    They were only flipping houses, etc.

  38. Clootie says:

    …ah the chocolate ration cut/increase from George Orwells 1984 🙂

    Labour would like a return to those days when without the effort to canvas they could weigh the votes in their favour.
    The promises didn’t matter because the sheep just followed the family tradition and voted for Labour.
    …and then they gradually became Tories. Bit by bit they joined the establishment and Scotland was taken for granted. It was the right, in their view, for Labour Party members to be rewarded by a turn with their snout in the trough.
    The decline continues with Murray and co fully committed to their union to such an extent that they have lost not only socialist values but basic rational thinking due to being blinded by self interest.

    The MSM will not highlight these failures. They will protect them and promote Ruthie because of a common bond…they serve masters from another nation instead of the people of Scotland.

    In 1707 a few gained financial reward for their vote, others land. The Kirk kept land and the right of service. The Kirk served the landed gentry well during the clearances. Little has changed over 300years except for the label that identifies them.

    Scotland is held fast by our fellow Scots or should I say the North British.

    …rant over but never forget the role of Labour in betraying Scotland.

  39. North chiel says:

    A vote for “ Scottish Labour” is a vote for the Westminster establishment Britnat “ reserve gov.” The
    2nd eleven to be called upon when the “ toxic Tories” need a break . It certainly appeared until very recently that the Westminster establishment and their propaganda cronies were lining up for a possible GE “ coup” to depose May’ junta over the “ Brexit shambles” . However, for certain now it has been decided that a Corbyn led Labour government is not wanted in Downing st. Events have very recently moved swiftly to “ shore up” May with the anti Corbyn propaganda attack together with the anti Putin / Russia 24 hour 2 week media blitz over the “ Salisbury incident” . ( a two pronged attack which has been “ very helpful” to a PM facing a domestic constitutional crisis at home coupled with the ongoing “ European Brexit split” with “ European partners”). The unanswered question remains who is pulling the strings to keep May in Downing st. for the present and why?

  40. heedtracker says:

    They were only flipping houses, etc.

    They also helped far right USA, Bush, Cheney etc destroy much of the middle east, million civilian casualties, mass refugee crisis. So there’s that.

    But the blue tories seem to want get their very hot war too,

    If youre a beeb r4 sucker and been bathed in their ghastly war with Russia hysterics for the last 3 weeks, wtf just doesn’t cut it with red or blue tory teamGB anymore.

  41. Clootie says:

    The two main parties in the UK political system are just glove puppets – one on each hand of the true master who gives them the appearance of life while he remains hidden from view.
    The description of Westminster as Punch and Judy politics is not an insult, it is a factual assessment.

  42. Thepnr says:


    Glove puppets right enough. no difference between them, from 2013.

    Labour will be tougher than Tories on benefits, promises new welfare chief

    And from 2015.

    It is shameful that Labour buys into the rhetoric that people who need welfare are scum

    No doubt about it, two cheeks of the same arse.

  43. dakk says:

    Most of what is left of the Labour vote (in Scotland) are the middle class,greedy,selfish public sector/related unionised workforce/retirees.

    Less trustworthy than Tories obviously.The Tories don’t and never have professed to be socialist reformers.

    The dilemma for SNP is they have to keep the big public sector vote onside whilst trying to effect the radical changes in society that Scotland desperately needs.

  44. Red torys no understatement

  45. Craig P says:

    And it will be another 29 years before Labour’s PFI contracts are paid off. You know, the ones used to build ‘Labour schools’ that have already started falling apart.

  46. Bill not Ben says:

    I love this so I thought I would post it here as its rather nice to read and absorb its message.

    When I was a child I spake like a child,
    I understood as a child, I thought as a child:
    but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    For now we see through a glass darkly;
    but then face to face:
    now I know in part;
    but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    And now abideth faith, hope, love, these three;
    but the greatest of these is love.

  47. heedtracker says:

    Craig P says:
    3 April, 2018 at 11:12 pm
    And it will be another 29 years before Labour’s PFI contracts are paid off. You know, the ones used to build ‘Labour schools’ that have already started falling apart.

    On top of that, Lab sold PFI at the time as a great risk spread solution for councils and contractors. Its the core of the whole PFI concept, spread risk and boost build standards.

    It looks like even the risk spread has turned out to be complete and utter bullshit, with the councils paying for all repairs or rebuilds.

    Beeb gimpery does not mention this at all, so the costs are probably all on the councils, the contractors may have long gone, the actual current PFI contract buyers virtually invisible.

    Edinburgh City Council’s finance and resources committee recently found that £153m was needed over the next five years to tackle the “history of under investment” in the authority’s estate – with this money being made available for work starting in 2018-19.”

    Its only fackin money.

    Ancient red tory in Scotland saying

  48. Phronesis says:

    ‘Slowly, drip by drip, in local news stories, we are told about past secrets and learn just how wrong those in power have been in our lifetimes. Why do you think they know any better today? What will be revealed in future about how our current government had secret plans for war? What is being done right now that in future will be revealed as both futile and very dangerous?’

    Empire 2 will have a peculiar economic foundation- war, famine, disease, pestilence, jam and biscuits.

    ‘As set out in the SDSR, we are making our defence policy ‘International by Design’, ensuring that we make those partnerships and alliances central to all that we do. Our international stance has been reinforced since the UK voted to leave the EU…
    Defence engagement is the use of our people and assets to prevent conflict, build stability and gain influence. It is a major component of making defence international by design. We build strategic relationships with key countries and act as a leader in international organisations such as NATO and the UN. We work closely with other nations’ forces, both to operate together and to collaborate together on developing our capabilities and equipment’

    ‘The total number of people in need of humanitarian assistance is 22.2 million – or 76% of the population – including 11.3 million children. For three years now, children in Yemen have been trapped in a brutal cycle of starvation and sickness.Hospitals have been bombed so the sick can’t be treated. Shipments of food have been blocked or delayed so millions go hungry.The country has been torn apart; its health services are on the point of collapse. Families have been denied the chance to make a living and feed their children’

    ‘Britain has been providing important political, military, technical and logistical support for the Saudi-led bombing campaign. Britain’s arms sales to Saudi Arabia increased by 11,000 per cent in the three months following the start of its bombing campaign against Yemen in March 2015. Close to £3.8 billion worth of UK arms have been sold to the Saudi regime since the beginning of the war’

    ‘Both Britain’s military role in Yemen, and the future of Trident, merit a real debate, with ministers subjected to hard, specific, questions’

    -A thoroughly depressing read;

    And something to be tentatively optimistic about

  49. K1 says:

    And here’s the entire Private Eye article explaining ‘exactly’ how they ‘set up PFI’ as the con it was and continues to be, here’s a snippet:

    *’Wind In The Willets

    NORMAN LAMONT tinkered with it. John Major approved it. But the intellectual thrust for the idea of tlre private finance initiative (PFI) came from David Willetts’ the Tory frontbencher nicknamed *Two Brains”. In a pamphlet in 1993 called The Opportunities for Private Funding in the NHS, published by the Social Market Foundation and financed by the private health insurance company BLJPA, Two Brains came up with a brainy idea’ lestead of paying for hospitals by public funding’ why not get reliable old private enterprise to build and run them – and then’ at the end of the processr inherit them too?

    When he wrote the pamptrlet, Willetts was a consultant to Healthcall, a private health firm. (In i997, when the Tories lost office, he became an adviser to the Dresdner Kleinwort merchant bank, which rapidly became one of the great beneficiaries of PFI.) But back in the early 1990s, two brains were rather too many for Tory leaders of the day and the idea of PFI wasn’t very popular in the treasury either. Senior civil servants liked to keep tight control on NHS spending and old-fashioned mandarins there felt the radical ideas of
    Two Brains might be going too far.

    When Kenneth Clarke succeeded Lamont as chancellor, he endorsed PFI and wrote it more firmly into the govemment’s prograrnmes. But he insisted that PFI would only work if the whole of the financial risk of a project was transferred from the public sector to the private sector. This caused a lot of concem to private contractors and banks. Their directors were prepared to bid for govemment contracts for which the government was eventually responsible, but were not at all happy about bidding for contracts for which private conffactors might be held liable.

    Another worry was the Labour opposition whose MPs were inclined to oppose such measures as “creePing privatisation”. So although Two Brains’ theory was officially adopted by the Tory government, it never really got off the ground. As predicted by the sceptics, the
    idea infuriated Labour and the trade unions – ln 1996 the TUC vigorously opposed PFI and in a Commons debate on 1 MaY the same year, Labour front bencher Sam Galbraith got to the root of the matter.

    “The private finance initiative,” he concluded, “is basically all about
    goverrlment bodies borrowing money but not having it set against the public sector borrowing requirement.” He forecast: “Today, the private sector will only get involved in the PFI wiithin the health services if it carries no real risk.’ The result, he said’ was “a financial sleight of hand, a massaging of figures as a result of which the increase in the public sector borrowing requirement is not shown and is thus a matter of deceit.”

    In another debate another Labour frontbencher, Harriet Harman, denounced the concept of PFI in the NHS in terms that won warm support from her colleagues. “When the private sector is building’ owning, managlng and running a hospital”she declared, “that hospital has been privatised.” Yet unknown to Harman, the leaders of her party were engaglng in secret discussions to make sure that if and when they came to office, the private sector would do precisely that: build, own, manage and run new hospitals.’

    This goes into exceptional detail of ‘how it was done’. The sheer deviousness, corruption and downright nasty way they went about it is worth the read, really gets your head straight about the biggest scam ever perpetuated upon the people of these islands:

    (*all typos are mine, needed bit of editing in the copy and pasting)

  50. Iain mhor says:

    Having had a wee lie doon and considered that perhaps at least “PravdaGb” at Pacific Quay can be pebbled wi stanes, I’ve been musing over ‘Labour for Independence’ group – it’s another poser.

    Now far be it for me to decry any Labour supporters backing Independence, but I struggle to see the point of the group. Is it a case of ‘Help change Labour (AU Scotland) by backing Labour but voting Yes’ – If so, it’ s a seriously schizoid position and must be difficult to hold. If you are backing Labour outwith a referendum/ election, you are assisting an anti-indy movement.

    Perhaps the premise is: ‘Back Labour ideals by not backing Labour and voting indy, but you shouldn’t be backing SNP either’ – Still doesn’t work. Or is it ‘Welcome ex-labourites, we back indy and the SNP until Independence is achieved, then we shall be the core which forms Scottish Labour in Independent Scotland’
    I dunno, really, perhaps someone could explain it to me. What is the core principle here? Achieving independence or taking votes from the SNP (or even Labour?) but they were accused of being an SNP front. I won’t mention the EC irregularities.
    I’m awa for anither lie doon…

  51. Mad Unionist says:

    Welfare should be abolished and simply called a living payment. THE SNP should abolish food banks and pay the living payment. People should be encouraged to work and if refused the living payment withdrawn a d food vouchers issued. The Scottish people should pay more tax to fund this.This would make Scotland a decent christian society where thousands of refugees would Q up for zero hour contracts.

  52. Thepnr says:

    @Iain mhor

    Labour for Independence was a group of Labour members that supported Independence and opposed the official stance of the Labour Party in Scotland.

    Their goal was to encourage not just members of Labour but also those that voted for them to support Independence too.

    In that they were reasonably successful since I changed from a potential No voter to a definite Yes in 2013 after seeing their logo on a Yes Scotland letter that was delivered to my house.

    You see having voted Labour for almost 40 years I wasn’t going to switch easily to the SNP though I could support Independence. I would have been very late to doing that if it wasn’t for that group. I’ve no doubt they had some success in persuading others like me as it seems at least 30% of previous Labour voters voted for Yes.

    That’s the only possible way support could have increased from the low 30’s up to 45%. Thing is now, much of the low hanging fruit has been picked but we still need more support.

    Well, Labour supporters are the obvious group where votes for Yes could be gained still, any labour member, supporter or indeed those of any other party will be welcome by me in it means they will vote Yes in a second referendum.

    In my eyes at least Labour for Independence did a lot to help increase support for a Yes vote in the referendum.

    “What is the core principle here? Achieving independence or taking votes from the SNP (or even Labour?) but they were accused of being an SNP front.”

    Labour for Independence could never have taken votes from any party as they never had anyone stand for election at any level. Their sole purpose was to encourage support for Independence against the official party line which is itself is a brave move.

    I doubt many of those original founders are still with the party and I know for sure that the leader of LFI cut up his Labour membership card the day after the referendum.

  53. Mad Unionist says:

    No self respecting Labour Party person would associate themselve with this SNP cabal who are Tory impersonators.

  54. Chick McGregor says:

    T labour the point, you are saying all they do is to labour the point.

  55. mike gunn says:

    29 years? I think SLAB are having their Saturn Returns identity crisis. Although that could be said every year.

  56. yesindyref2 says:

    I see England is a region of Africa with a capital of Banjul and a population of 2 million. That’ll please the Brexiteers.

  57. jockmcx says:

    In scotland nobody can here you scream BREXIT.

    They’re coming.

  58. starlaw says:

    Labour are all in favour of re-cycling especially election promises. Abolish the House of Lords, re-nationalise the railways, scrap zero hours contracts, raise child benefit .. etc. etc.
    Worked before.

  59. Capella says:

    Focus groups will be telling them that Home Rule for Scotland would be a vote winner along with abolishing the House of Lords, renationalising the railways, rent controls, saving the NHS, free education and control of casino capitalism.

    We voters are a consistent bunch, consistently ignored by the political elite in Westminster. That’s why Scotland needs independence, to get the policies we vote for enacted.
    Or democracy as it’s commonly called.

  60. Iain mhor says:

    @Thepnr 1:20am

    Thanks for that, I wasn’t really casting hard aspersions on LFI, just trying to understand the mindset a little better and yes, admittedly a bit suspicious. My binary brain hadn’t grasped the need for a bridging vehicle to transition.

    Also, I just meant by ‘taking votes’ not that they were a party, but that members would possibly struggle (even at local level) to cast a vote, where the choice is stick to principles of Labour or change vote to SNP.

    Well LFI certainly seemed to have the courage of their convictions and as I’ve seen quoted “I didn’t leave Labour, Labour left me” It appears from what you’ve explained, that there is still a need for an ideological home for ex-labour voters which is not neccessarily the SNP. Perhaps another party actually is required.
    All welcome aboard the Indy train after all, whichever station was boarded.

  61. galamcennalath says:

    Just a thought. Does anyone else think we must be on the edge of a backlash against political correctness because it is becoming ridiculous – literally, an object of ridicule?

    The social fashion for behaving respectfully towards any and all minorities gave rise to a ‘nicer society’, outwardly anyway. However, I fear we are on the verge of losing that again.

  62. Famou15 says:

    O/t BBC allowing comment on site,How unusual but usual yoonery pervading the air.

  63. Dr Jim says:

    There seems to have been a realighnment of racism or anti stuff in that if you don’t like something you must be against it and the internet is full of overly strident folk ordering the rest of us to like what they like or we’re Bad

    My understanding of being anti stuff was always that you had to be against something and actively promote that
    I’m not in favour of lots of things but that doesn’t mean I’m against other folk who aren’t and I posted examples once before like I’m not fond of blue cars or white dogs but I’m not out to get them or stop other folk having them

    I do however wish the stridents would stop being so panicky about what folk like or dislike, it’s not the same as being anti anything, it’s just about my choice of what I like and others can like what they like and calm down a bit

    I’m going out now to buy a red jacket, I hope that colour’s OK

  64. Breeks says:

    Even if I took a running jump, I still can’t be bothered with Labour.

    When your leadership contests produces the glittering procession of Richard Leonard, Kez Dugdale, Jim Murphy, Johann Lamont, Iain Gray… you really need to take a step backward and ask yourself, if this is the best of Scottish Labour, just how dismally bad are all the rest?

    The BBC in Scotland isn’t becoming more pro-Tory in my judgement, but these days, the greatest kindness the BBC Scotland can bestow upon Labour is to NOT broadcast their phoney opportunistic pish, and to keep their creepy, cringeworthy incompetence firmly out of the media spotlight.

    The Labour Party badly needs to reconnect with Labour Party Principles, but unfortunately, no self respecting Labour Party Principle would touch these Labour Party charlatans with a barge pole.

    I’ll go further and say something even more controversial. When Tony Blair distanced New Labour away from traditional Union control and funding, and brought in funding from the Friends of Israel, the Labour Party sold its soul, and suddenly found itself embroiled in a needless, grubby illegal war against Shia Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, (not Sunni terrorists with Saudi backing), with the bogus justification for war built upon contrived phoney evidence. Jeremy Corbyn wanted Blair to stand trial for war crimes, but Mr Blair, (the “people’s choice” for Middle Eastern Peace Envoy), has friends in high places, and now Jeremy Corbyn is on the rack for his trumped up alleged anti-semitism. Go figure…

    I repeat, I couldn’t give a shit about what happens to Labour, but if Jews and actual friends of Israel are seriously concerned about anti-semitism in politics, they might want to stop gagging critics and smearing opposition, and look again at the cause, effect, and morality of what Israel is actually doing to the Palestinians. Because when I do the arithmetic, even me, who doesn’t give a flying shite about Labour, can recognise that Jeremy Corbyn might actually be a rare phenomenon in the Labour Party, – someone who might actually have a degree of courage and moral principle that he’ll actually stand up for. He might actually be a man who’s instincts are to prosecute war crimes, even when it’s awkward to do so, and to resist Zionist pressure to whitewash and absolve Israel of its abuse and mistreatment of the Palestinians. Now why on earth should that make him enemies? No, – what you’re suddenly now thinking is the result of political arithmetic, not antisemitism.

    But Jeremy Corbyn is also twice the demon, because a Labour Luvvy with anti-Zionist sympathies gives the BBC a dilemma and a headache. The BBC is hardly covered in glory for its own impartial conduct in the Middle East don’t forget. Balen Report anybody???

    My “disinterested” instincts are suggesting to me that the modern UK Labour Party is indeed coming under extreme pressure to embrace somebody’s fundamental principles, but unfortunately for the working classes of Britain, these are not traditional Labour Party principles being demanded by socialist reformers.

    Labour has been bought and sold for “somebody’s” gold. Not that Jeremy Corbyn would care, but we Scots know how that feels.

  65. Dan Huil says:

    Scotland has given Labour plenty of opportunities to create a fairer society. Labour has failed. Labour will always put Westminster’s wants above Scotland’s needs. Enough is enough; never again trust Labour.

  66. Bob Mack says:

    Scottish Labour are nothing more than a franchise of Labour UK. They have to follow the same rules and regulations.

    Financially they are kept afloat by Labour down south, and we all know the piper plays for whoever pays. This incredible facade of picking leader after leader in Scotland who is supposed to be autonomous is insulting in itself.

    They play mind games for the politically uneducated hoping nobody actually finds out the facts. Well, we on Wings have found out the facts, and more than just facts on Labour.

    My first cousin was an MP, and I assure you he spent more time making his own life comfortable than he did for any constituent, especially if it involved more than writing the occasional letter. Time for Scotland to wise up.

  67. Betty Boop says:

    @ Highland Wifie, 3/4/18, 8:36pm

    But will the young Corbynistas take any heed?
    Socialist utopia for the whole UK just around the corner…..aye right.

    Nah, they’ll soon fill Tory boots just like the rest. Really, we should lump them all together, Lab/Tory/Libdems and just call them the Establishment Party.

  68. mike cassidy says:

    Breeks 9.26

    At least the BBC have solved their Jewish conundrum.

    There are good and bad Jews.

    And the bad Jews are the ones with whom Corby has dinner.

    As for waiting for Labour –

    even Stephen Hawking thought time was briefer than that.

  69. Clootie says:

    Many issues should be above party politics e.g. Nuclear Weapons, Nuclear energy, Human Rights, Military intervention in another nations affairs etc.

    The most important of these issues is Independence as a nation as this enables choice on all other topics. Therefore for me it is perfectly logical for a range of people from communist to ultra right wing to support Independence. The vote does not decide the policies of Scotland – it only gives us the right to make that choice.

    I just wish more effort was made by people to obtain that right rather than insisting what the shape should be first.

    The debate should not be the Green vision or the SSP vision or any other version…it should simply be the right to decide our future. Every Party membership depends on policy attractiveness to the voter so support for Independence should be a major factor hence the popularity and yet internal conflict that is reflected in the SNP. (United on the major policy but a wide range of views on other topics)

    Perhaps like bank accounts we should be more open to changing party membership? Stay with / or join the SNP until independence and then pick the party who best match your views.

    Remember NOTHING will ever be delivered by ANY party in Scotland without INDEPENDENCE.

  70. Proud Cybernat says:

    BREAKING from Pravda Quay
    with Union Jackie Kim Ono:

  71. Betty Boop says:

    @ K1, 12:04am

    Thanks for the link to the Private Eye reports on PFI – that will need some time to digest !

  72. Bob Mack says:

    The conundrum for Labour in Scotland is this. Clearly just under half the population at the last survey, still support independence. This is not a minor issue. This is a profound movement dedicated to a specific outcome.

    Scottish Labour want to be popular again ,but have firmly declined to support those of us who want independence. The really staunch Unionists vote Tory regardless of class, economic or social conditions in which they find themselves.

    Thus Labour can become no more than a bystander watching two sides gather the votes, whilst they want to play. This is exactly what happened in the last election.

    The bottom line is that those voters who remained loyal to Labour have to make a decision. I doubt, without Scottish voters contributing, that Labour could ever regain power in Westminster, and only then if they form coalitions with other parties.

    I for one will never vote for a party which dismisses my option to choose independence for MY country.

  73. schrodingers cat says:

    in the interests of fairness
    the otherside of the coin from ruth wishart
    Pete Wishart MP (no relation) has been setting out his views on Indyref2. The burden of his argument is that pragmatism must rule the day since to hold and lose a second referendum would be “unthinkable”. He represents the safety first tendency which believes that unless and until there is a sustained and evident mood shift which would indicate the probability of a Yes vote, the country can’t and shouldn’t risk another defeat. Many people would agree with his caution. I am not one of them.

    It is not difficult to recite reasons for postponing another vote indefinitely: The polls are not shifting enough, the currency issues and other knotty condundrums have yet to be unravelled, the Brexit negotiations are at a critical point and the matter of the “power grab” not resolved. The Westminster Government cannot be relied upon to give its gracious approval. In fact, give it your best shot and you could probably talk yourself out of ever running another independence again.

    Which would be, to coin a phrase, unthinkable.

    Let us examine the manifold reasons why discretion is not the better part of valour. Looming ever larger are a number of Brexit deadlines and parliamentary votes. It must be clear now that the Labour Party at Westminster cannot be relied upon to vote against whatever half baked deal the Davies Fox combo rescues from the ashes of their ineptitude. Indeed the Labour Party at Westminister can’t be relied upon to have the same Brexit policy two days running. This despite the overwhelming Remain tendency in their own ranks – and probably their shadow cabinet.

    So if the numbers don’t add up to stop the Brexit train in its tracks, then Scotland has to take a long, hard look at its own timetable. There is no shortage of evidence that we have friends in Europe who would not set their face against Scotland remaining in the Single Market and Customs Union if a politial formula can be finessed – even if acquiring a more formal relationship takes very much longer. The bourach being made of the Irish border issue, whilst tragic in terms of the threat to the 20 year old Good Friday agreement, may yet provide a useful precedent in terms of the constituent nations of the UK ploughing their own furrows.

    We also have to be mindful of the UK government’s long hidden but truly frightening predictions on the economic impact of Brexit, hard, soft or whatever consistency. What is the merit in waiting until that diagnosis is proved painfully true and elements of our own trade and industry are damaged in ways from which elements may never recover? Another ten years of austerity may be less than the full price.

    And we have to consider too other hard facts of political life. The Labour Party in Scotland may be in turmoil, the Tory support may be slipping backwards, but history tells us that all governments are destined to lose support. The voters tire of the dramatis personae, the incumbents may become complacent or suffer the middle-aged intellectual spread incompatible with radicalism. And there is a huge swathe of SNP support which did not sign on the dotted party line in order to be told that independence had ceased to be a priority. The government’s political opponents are wont to harangue them about “always banging on about another referendum.” If only!

    This Autum will be the fourth anniversary of the 2014 Referendum. We risk losing all the passion, all the hope, all the ambition which that generated if our best rallying cry is NOT YET. And of course, as 2014 indicated, this should not be about any one party. There are people throughout Scotland of all political persuasions and none who believe that Scotland’s future as an economically viable, socially just, small European country can only be gained through its independence. Many of these people voted no. But they believed the Better Together mantra that doing so would guarantee their future in Europe.

    And many believed the SNP mantra that if circumstances were to change materially, such as our being taken out of Europe against our wishes then all bets would be off. We would be entitled to put the question to the Scottish electorate again.

    Well things have changed materially. Things are at a dangerous tipping point in terms of our ability to sieze the Brexit moment to map out a different future for Scotland. I don’t believe for a moment that we will see polls suddenly shift to 60 per cent in favour of Yes if we hold fire and hope for divine intervention. But I do believe that if we have the courage and commitment to go for another poll than there are more reasons than there were four years a go to build decisive momentum.

    I am of the generation which watched the 1979 referendeum sabotaged which meant a 20 year wait before Scotland got its parliamenmt back. I don’t believe the conspiracy theorists who suggest that the 2014 poll was similarly rigged. But I do know that the media onslaught was a significant factor. This time, four years on, the media game is very different. This time social media has altered the vote garnering business beyond recognition. Not by surreptious targetting of unwary electors, but by using all the new platforms up front to put forward a positive message.

    There is a window of opportunity between now and March – maybe not even as long as that. It can be used by the bold and the brave. It can be used by the many fine people who are even now working hard on honing an offer to the Scottish public which can withstand the inevitable slings and arrows fired by the naysayers. Use it or lose it. Carpe diem.

  74. Robert Peffers says:

    Just remember that yon Kier Hardie gadgie, wha stairted aa yon Labour pairty liggers aff, wantit hame rule fir wir kintra.

    Owersettin intil the Inglis, “Just remember Kier that Hardie, father of the Labour Liars Party, wanted home rule for our country”.

  75. geeo says:

    Well said Bob Mack.

    Labour are champions of Democratic choice over Brexit…”we are against brexit..but as democrats, we accept the will of the people”

    Meanwhile, at labour in Scotland…”we totally oppose a 2nd independence referendum even taking place, and in the 2017 GE we made it labour policy to refuse an indyref, despite the Scottish People already expressing it as their sovereign will that they WANT one, as per the mandate given in 2016 at the Holyrood election”

    Democrats huh, what are they like ?

  76. Breeks says:

    I agree Clootie.

    Half in anger, half in jest, I suggested Craig Murray forms a YES political party, so we can have a pro-Indy YES Party that unequivocally supports Europe (and Scotland’s popular sovereignty), and a pro-Indy SNP party that prefers its own mysterious soft Brexit EFTA, democratically compromised sovereignty “thing”.

    That way all Independentists for or against Europe have a flag to fly, and the merits for and against EU membership don’t split the Indy vote, – assuming we ever do get an actual vote in time for it to matter.

    I don’t see that situation ever happening because the SNP will never want to release its pro-EU core support, (and the pro EU majority that voted Remain), and if the SNP plumped for EU membership, I don’t see Craig Murray as a credible Brexiteer stalking horse.

    Maybe it’s those Scots who want out of Europe who need to dig deep and hedge their bets. If they really want a life outside Europe, move to a Brexited part of the UK, and leave Scotland free to remain in Europe simply for the choice of an alternative un-Brexited lifestyle option it would then provide. You can have Brexitland and EU duel citizenship but without fecking up the Venn diagram for the rest of us.

  77. Clootie says:

    @schrodingers cat

    Good post, well argued!

  78. Capella says:

    tbf – Noam Chomsky has pointed out that in the US opinion polls show that the majority are in favour of nationalised (publicly funded through taxation) railways, health care and education. But neither the Democrats nor the Republicans will offer that in their manifestos.

    You can either vote for this guy who won’t deliver, or that guy who won’t deliver. Its a one party state with two right wings as Gore Vidal once said.

    That’s what the UK is, and only by exiting stage left can Scotland develop a functioning democracy.

  79. heedtracker says:

    Carpe diem.

    Good read SC. It may be that Scottish currency issue is unravelable. Indyref2 date should be the Brexit week next year. A clear logical choice for us. Teresa has blocked indyref’s until she’s decides or until after Brexit. Well next spring is going to be after Brexit.

    BBC led tory media, wildly hysterical Brexit nationalism propaganda, triumph, rule Britannia extravaganza, next year, in full bat shit mental vote tory mode. So, Scotland is this what you want?

    Indyref2, announced Jan 1, 2019. Lets see how BBC led vote NO Thanks or else 2, running alongside Rule Britannia Brexit BBC hysteria?

    Take the fight to them this time.

    The Graun Tue 3 Apr 2018


    Brexit weekly briefing: less than a year to Brexit day
    None of the ‘pre-anniversary’ coverage could confidently say what Brexit might look like

  80. Flower of Scotland says:

    @schrodingers cat

    That’s a really good piece from Ruth Wishart. I’m one of those that supports Peter A Bell who wants a referendum this year or next.

    I always wonder if Pete Wishart is just trying to get everyone to discuss Referendum time by putting the cat amongst the pigeons. He,s a clever chappie because twitter is full of folk arguing about the best time for a new referendum.

    I also noticed that the ones agreeing with Pete are these strange twitter folk with no name, no history and just a bundle of numbers as their username.

    I’m just waiting for the starting pistol!

  81. Stravaiger says:

    What Schrodinger’s Cat said at 10:41

  82. heedtracker says:

    boris says:
    4 April, 2018 at 11:28 am
    We must trust our politicians to be honest in their efforts to protect the nation. I think not.

    El Tone very kindly took a huge bite out of Scotland’s territorial North Sea, moving the England sea border up and around Fife, encompassing some of the most bountiful oil fields in the North Sea too. And he did it all for you and you and you, SLabour, across the Scotland region.

    Maybe it was just like how the trans Siberian railway has an odd bump in its dead straight line across Russia, all down to the Tsar of Russia drawing the planned rail line across his empire with a ruler and his pencil bumped around his thumb.

    True story, Tony Blair’s remapping of Scotland, not the Tsar one?

  83. Ken500 says:

    Craig Murray. Divide and rule. You could lose ground. The only organised mass movement with the experience and finances etc are the SNP. Get behind them or become a democracy dissenting voice. They have advanced Scotland enormously. They have the savy and organisation to succeed.

    What’s more important for Scotland? Independence or full EU membership which can be taken up again. A minor consideration. Even in the UK there is majority support for EU membership and rising, as people see the damage to the economy that will come.

    Increased support for Independence in Scotland.

    Scotland needs a central bank. Everything will be put in place.

  84. Ken500 says:

    Labour etc could have taken May down. The 12Sept 2017 EVEL vote. 8? Labour menbers voted with the Tories. Frank Field etc. The major hypocrite. Fork tongue. Complains bitterly about poverty, austerity and then votes it through.

  85. Robert Peffers says:

    @Artyhetty says: 3 April, 2018 at 8:13 pm

    “They have a heck of a lot to answer for, that’s for sure.
    They say never trust a Tory, I say, never ever trust Labour either. Their faux socialism and pretendy support for the people is just sickening. Look at what they didn’t do in Scotland.

    I think you may just be missing something there, Artyhetty.

    I’ve been saying it for a very long time even from before there were computers. The United Kingdom Westminster Establishment has always been a sham. Just consider the real evidence.

    The Parliament of the Kingdom of England before 1688 was a true monarchy with a sovereign monarch and the parliamentarians that the system of, “Divine Right of Kings”, rule Of Law made imperative. Under Divine Right system kingdoms got bigger and fewer. This was because a monarch defeating another monarch in war forced the loser to swear fealty to the winner and the winner became their overlord. Same with Kingdoms with no male heir, when the Queen married her husband became her overlord and if the marriage produced a male heir he inherited both Kingdom and united them.

    So the Kingdom of England, in 1603, was still under Divine Right when Jamie Saxt o Scots inherited its crown. However, Jamie Saxt o Scots was so called because Scotland had not been under Divine Right since 1320 and the Declaration of Arbroath so he couldn’t just unite the Kingdom of England’s three countries into the Kingdom of Scotland as he wasn’t sovereign in Scotland. There was thus no United Kingdom in 1603 and if there had been, under divine right it would have been all the Kingdom of Scotland.

    So the Kingdom of England remained a sovereign monarchy until 1688 and the English, “Glorious Revolution”. To understand that you have to realise that the reason for there being Dukes, Earls and so on, was that due to the Divine Right system of law the Kingdoms grew too large for a monarch to rule over on his/her own.

    So began the feudal system under which the sovereign monarch granted lands and powers to certain underlings who in return had to support the sovereign monarch in war and run the part of the kingdom he was granted by the sovereign monarch. Thus was born the Aristocracy who in turn granted lands to underlings and so on until the Serfs or Villeins, (virtually slaves), at the bottom of the pile.

    So in 1688 the monarch in England was sovereign and the parliamentarians were the aristocracy – who had become too big for their boots. The aristocracy rebelled and they had the English, “Glorious Revolution”, and deposed their rightful King then imported King Billy & Queen Mary under the condition they legally delegated their Divine Right to the Parliament of England – which became the, “Constitutional Monarchy”, it legally is today.

    Trouble was that the Parliament of England just assumed that, as the monarch they had deposed was also King of Scots, that Scotland had depose their rightful monarchy too and they called the Scots fighting to retain their still independent monarch were, “The Rebellious Scots”, they sing about in their national anthem.

    The Jacobites could not be rebels because William & Mary were monarchs in a still independent Kingdom of England and unless Scotland’s, (still independent), Parliament had agreed, (and in Scotland the people are legally sovereign), then there was no United Kingdom. Which was why the English Parliament illegally forced the Treaty of Union of 1706/7. Why would they need a Treaty of Union if their claims of a Union of the crowns had taken place in 1603?

    So Westminster in 1688 was a sham and it remained a sham in 1706/7 and the idea that Westminster has three opposing parties is smoke & mirrors to fool the plebs. Westminster was then the Aristocracy and if you have any remaining doubts consider how, in times when Westminster comes under threat, as in both World wars, the Government of wartime is a coalition of the three main parties.

    Now we see the same thing happening at Holyrood – three unionist parties in an informal coalition against the SNP and their leaders in Westminster abstaining to allow the Westminster Establishment do as it likes.

    That is why there is the City of London, “Remembrancer”, sitting close to the Westminster Speaker. That’s the ever present influence of the, (modern version, Aristocracy sitting right there and, you may not know it, but, “The City of London”, is actually a sovereign city state.

    What! You don’t believe me?

    Go read this:-

  86. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says: 3 April, 2018 at 8:44 pm:

    “Labour have the wrong name. They should be “The Jam Tomorrow Party””

    All right then! Anyone remember which Westminster politician said, “There’ll be pie in the sky, by and by for you and I”?

    It’s one of the Westminster quotes I cannot quite remember who said it but I get the feeling it was Dennis Healy.
    Note:- Dennis was Secretary of State for Defence from 1964 to 1970, Chancellor of the Exchequer from 1974 to 1979 and Deputy Leader of the Labour Party from 1980 to 1983.

    Dennis was the last surviving member of the cabinet of Harold Wilson after the Labour Party’s victory in the 1964 general election.

  87. Robert Peffers says:

    @Another Union Dividend says:3 April, 2018 at 9:10 pm:

    “For example, in recent days we have seen several attacks on Bed blocking from the usual suspects but a search on SNP web site for Bed Blocking produces nothing whatsoever far less a response to recent criticism.”

    The answer was given by Nicola Sturgeon in response to the usual, United Kingdom, united unionist’s, concerted pre-agreed, attack on Bed Blocking during FM’s Question time.

    Nicola detailed the several initiatives the SNP/SG already had in place, (that the Holyrood Parliament had passed), but the three unionist stooges apparently had forgotten in spite of having debated and voted on the issues. She mentioned the improvements from Labour/LibDen times in power, in the passing.

    She also quoted the relevant Scottish statistics and compared the Scottish figures against those of the Tory led English NHS and the Labour led Welsh NHS and, just for fun, skelped whit’s-his-name’s arse in the passing.

    So, why has it always got to be presented here as being all the BAAAD! SNP’s fault by certain Wing’s commenters?

    Why must it always have to be the fault of the SNP to do something about it? Are you Scottish Independence activists or not? If yes then activate – if not, then belt up.

  88. Robert Peffers says:

    @BrianW says:3 April, 2018 at 9:21 pm:

    “Something very complicated looking but where the answer is always Zero or Never.”

    Aye! BrianW, and someone, (very cleverly, up there /|\, on this thread), quoted it as . “Anything multiplied by zero = infinity”.

    It made me smile.

  89. yesindyref2 says:

    I think there are some who want the Independence Referendum delayed until after the UK drags Scotland fully out of the EU after any transition period making it harder to get back in, purely because they want out of the EU regardless of what excuse they make. Perhaps they don’t even realise it’s why they’re coming up with some odd reason for the delay

    To find out their actual motivation is simple. For those YES campaigners saying the Indy Ref shouldn’t be until 2021 or 2022, which is therefore after the transition ends on 31st December 2020 on current trends, ask them this:

    “If the UK gets a transition period up to 2025, would you then be saying Scotland should leave Indy Ref 2 until 2026 or later?”

  90. K1 says:

    You’re very welcome Betty Boop @10.23 a.m. It’s definitely worth the long read to get a real understanding of the staggering deceit at play and to keep this article well circulated to allow others to understand the depth of the rip off that we are still and future generations will still be paying for!

    Good to see your still about Betty Boop 🙂

  91. Benstarav says:

    Socialism next time.

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