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Wings Over Scotland

What’s the point of satire?

Posted on May 05, 2013 by

We don’t need it in Scotland. Look at the state of reality:

“THE pro-union Better Together campaign has refused to work with UKIP to persuade Scots to vote against ­independence. A Better Together ­spokesman said: “UKIP have asked to join us and we have said no. If they ask again, we will say no again. They are not a Scottish party and this is a Scottish debate.””

We assume this means that the No camp will be giving Ian Taylor his non-Scottish £500,000 back at last, and roundly condemning the interventions of the thoroughly non-Scottish Carwyn Jones in the debate, yes?

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90 to “What’s the point of satire?”

  1. Patrick Roden says:

    WOW !
    This is fantastic news, I am sure this sets Ukip free, to be as unreasonable as they like when they release statements concerning Scotlands parliament, budgets, independence etc.
    Had they been allowed to become members of BT, they would have been diluted as they conformed to the agreed media releases.
    This will also bring into sharp focus that Scotland is completely diffirent in it’s political aspirations to England.
    Fantastic !   😉

  2. G. Campbell says:

    “Some of our members go along to Better Together meetings. The other people there don’t care if they are from UKIP. They’re quite happy they’re supporting Better Together.”

    Bound to be a few BNP members there too, I’d wager.

  3. Mac says:

    UKIP members do attend Better Together meetings.

  4. G. Campbell says:

    “Monster Raving Loony? Aye, come on in and have a seat.”

  5. G. Campbell says:

    “Natural Law Party? Aye, come in on and rest your knees.”

  6. G. Campbell says:

    “Green? Eff off.”

  7. Adrian B says:

    They are not a Scottish party and this is a Scottish debate.
    Does that also mean that parties must be registered as Scottish to take part in the debate. I don’t recall SLAB, Libs or Cons as being registered anywhere other than London. UKIP is a UK party – Perhaps a one nation party like Labour?

  8. Albert Herring says:

    They stand for election in Scotland, which makes them just as ‘Scottish’ as Lab LibDem or Con.

  9. NSTST says:

    BT were damned if they did and damned if they didnt.

    UKIP are too inexperienced and too controversial to take a major role, its right they are not involved.

  10. Patronsaintofcats says:

    UKIP are nut bars, end of. I’m sure they will have an opinion on the indy ref, can’t wait for the fireworks!

  11. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    Bottom line. If you want to remain in the EU vote for Scottish Independence. Cameron will now have to legislate for an in/out EU referendum.  

  12. The Man in the Jar says:

    I suspect that BT could not stomach Alex Salmond ramming UKIP down their throats at every FMQs. Pity I was fair looking forward to these loonies “Adding their voice to the unionist debate”
    Their inexperience and controversial nature (AKA numpties) hopefully will assist them in throwing their toys out of the pram in the general direction of BT, cant wait!

  13. Juteman says:

    You couldn’t make it up.
    I can only imagine the fun some playwright will have in a future independent Scotland. The farce would almost write itself.

  14. UKIP want to do away with Holyrood,the comment I heard was “surely some business could rent out Holyrood”

  15. BuckieBraes says:

    ‘They are not a Scottish party and this is a Scottish debate.’

    Better Together, going by its stated position, is not at liberty to make such a statement.

    BT has been at pains to tell us how this debate is about the threat to its beloved United Kingdom, its potentially diminished role in the world, the risk to national security, etc. Now a bunch of UKIP gatecrashers appears at the door, threatening to bring something to the party the others don’t like the look of – and suddenly it’s ‘get lost, this is a “Scottish debate”‘.

    BT seems gey confused – that’s all I can say.

  16. beachthistle says:

    I think the biggest foot-shoot that BT have committed in trying to fend off the advances of UKIP is that they have explicity stated that the main reason they have said  no to UKIP is that “they are not a Scottish party and this is a Scottish debate.”
    This constitutes individual and institutional denial, cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy and political hari-kari:  UKIP, as far as the Electoral Commission is concerned, has exactly the same status and is 100% as ‘Scottish’ as all 3 of BT’s current ‘parties’.
    On the Electoral Commission’s registered political parties database, you will not find the ‘Scottish Labour Party’, the ‘Scottish Conservative Party’, nor the ‘Scottish Liberal Democrats’. You can only find the ‘Conservative and Unionist Party’, the ‘Labour Party’ and the ‘Liberal Democrats’….and of course the ‘UK Independence Party (UKIP).


  17. CameronB says:

    Adrian and Albert make very good points. It would appear we are not Better Together, unless the Price Is Right. No matter how tainted the source of funding is.
    Should we not all demand the Electoral Commission investigate an apparent transgression against UKIP, in respect to their rights as a political party of equal status to Better Together’s existing partners? 😉 

  18. The Man in the Jar says:

    What BuckieBraes says!

  19. HighlandMartin says:

    A little piece from Alistair Darling on launching Better Together last July.
    Ahead of the launch, Mr Darling told Radio 4’s Today programme that he wanted to “fight a very positive campaign”:

    He said: “You can’t scare people out of it and my argument isn’t that Scotland couldn’t go it alone – I mean most countries can – and we would be quite heavily dependent and exposed to the fortunes of north sea oil if we did that, but you could do it. My argument is actually what’s best for Scotland?”

    Earlier the Edinburgh South West Labour MP said Scotland was proud about all the identities it shared – being “Scottish, British, European and citizens of the world”.

    He added: “We are part of a social union, underpinned by an economic and political union – all parts mesh together.

    “Friends, neighbours, families – across borders – share ties that bind us together. What does this mean for us? It means that after centuries of common endeavour we should value those ties that bind us together and celebrate the diversity that exists around us.”
    Which bit can be construed as you’re not welcome Mr UKip..

  20. Adrian B says:

    The very same party’s that are lurching to the right in pursuit of UKIP policy across the UK, on immigration and cutting welfare are the very same parties that claim that UKIP has no place in BT.
    Interesting that UKIP has been around longer than the Devolved Scottish Parliament but is not able to take part in the discussion on the powers of that Parliament or the Referendum on that  Parliaments future – even although if we stay in the UK. UKIP’s policies will have a large bearing on the Scottish Parliament and the people of Scotland.

  21. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    @NSTST says:
    5 May, 2013 at 2:21 pm
    BT were damned if they did and damned if they didnt.
    UKIP are too inexperienced and too controversial to take a major role, its right they are not involved
    Well, let’s think about this. BitterTogether looks to party leaders and high ranking Westmonster types and have-beens; so Cameron, Clegg, Milliband, Osborne, Alexander, Darling. But UKIP’s Farage’s rhetorical abilities exceeds any of those guys. So the reference to “too inexperienced” can be viewed as redundant, verging on sophistry.
    Now, as for stating that UKIP are “too controversial”, let’s understand that this is a relative term. Controversial with respect to what? Now the ConLibLab pact have
    conspired on

    The Bedroom Tax
    Work Fare ; including retro-active legislation
    Privatisation of the NHS in England/Wales; e.g., 208 MP’s have interests in private companies set to profit from the legislation being brought in.

    As far as Scottish voters are concerned, every one of these issue is HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL.
    So, your point does not stand. However, if you were to suggest instead that UKIP were too too “highly truthful“, then I couldn’t agree more with you on the reasons why BitterTogether would not bring them on board. Because UKIP will say that Holyrood’s Powers must and will be decimated in the case of a NO vote, while the “uncontroversial-others” of UKOK’s mafia will dissemble on that matter.

  22. Hwanofbute says:

    Thanks Rev. That is the best post of the week. It’s fair cheered me up.

  23. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    Breaking News:
    “BitterTogether accused of Racism after Rebuffing 25% of English Electorate.” 
    Go on Scotsman NewsRag, you know you want to publish it! 😉

  24. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    @ beachthistle @ CameronB
    All good points. I particularly like the Electoral Commission bit.

  25. euan mcglynn says:

    forget UKIP joining better together, i am more worried about the Orange Order already being part  of thr no campagin

  26. annie says:

    I have no doubt that UKIP will be involved – just not in any official upfront capacity.

  27. HandandShrimp says:

    They are not a Scottish party and this is a Scottish debate
    That is absolutely hysterical. What is more, they might not get many votes but they have stood in Scotland and by the dint that there is no such thing as a separate Scottish Tory or Labour party then UKIP are as Scottish as they are.
    Don’t get me wrong, I can fully understand why UKIP might give McDougall and Darling the heebies but that isn’t the point.
    The Orange Lodge, BNP, UKIP and the Coalition are all pro BT.
    SNP, Greens and SSP are pro independence.
    Which side of that divide should Labour really be on?

  28. AmadeusMinkowski says:


  29. lumilumi says:

    Well, to be fair, I don’t think the YES campaign would welcome independence-supporting radical ethinc nationalists, militant nationalists and the like. BT might tacitly approve support from the Orange Order but the OO is not an official member of the BT campaign and would probably not be welcomed if it formally asked.
    However, UKIP is a real political party with MEPs and councillors and policies, a party that just garnered a quarter of the popular vote in England. It’s quite concievable that they might get enough MPs at the next UK GE to hold the balance of power, even form a coalition government with the Tories. Furthermore, they’re keen on keeping the UK together, which surely is the aim of the BT campaign.
    Or is the aim of BT to keep the UK together for the Tories, LibDems and Labour – three different shades of the same ideology and policies – or, simply, the Establishment?

  30. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    BuckieBraes says:
    5 May, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    ‘They are not a Scottish party and this is a Scottish debate.’
    Better Together, going by its stated position*, is not at liberty to make such a statement.
    * If you have source for this position, let’s find it and use it!

  31. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    The double speak of the UK establishment on BitterTogether and UKIP, like on many issues, is breathtaking. For example, one doesn’t have to look to far to see evidence that Tory’s are already lining up for an alliance with UKIP come 2015. For example, John Redwood, Conservative MP stated (03/04/2013) on BBC Vote 2013 (part 2, at around 25min 20 seconds) that he wants David Cameron to unite the Torys with UKIP supporters to have a common fight against the EU for 2015. For those that know how to splice out a section from this clip, it is a golden nugget. Any takers?

  32. Taranaich says:

    Speaking of the pointlessness of satire:

    Why does Question Time keep inviting this racist, hateful bigot onto their program?

  33. Patrick Roden says:

    @ AM
    Breaking News:
    “BitterTogether accused of Racism after Rebuffing 25% of English Electorate.”

    I think this is a serious point, that might just have some legs.
    We need to be letting people in England know that the BT campaign is racist.
    Love it 😉

  34. CameronB says:

    Isn’t it reassuring that that particularly divisive QT guest, backs Gove’s plans for the new and revised English History curriculum?

  35. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    @Patrick Roden
    Thanks! O’h, wait a minute …. this just in
    Warning over Economic Uncertainty after Independence as Oil Revalued at £4 trillion!

  36. Craig P says:

    To be fair to BT they already have the support of our own indigenous Britnat bigots in the guise of the orange order, they don’t need English ones as well. It does expose the fault line in better together’s rhetoric though rather deliciously. 

  37. Stu, I feel your headline is a little harsh. While we in BBC Scotlandshire remain a serious news outlet and state broadcaster, the spoof channel on the other bank of the Clyde, ‘BBC in Scotland’, continues to broadcast material which is almost entirely satirical.
    Surely that output has some purpose, even if it only serves to push people into the arms of the separatists.

  38. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    Patrick Roden says:
    5 May, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    @ AM
    Breaking News:
    “BitterTogether accused of Racism after Rebuffing 25% of English Electorate.”

    I think this is a serious point, that might just have some legs.
    We need to be letting people in England know that the BT campaign is racist.
    I agree. I hope that YES, the SNP and others in the blogosphere will find some use for it.


  39. Morgwn C Davies says:

    What makes a party Scottish ? Labour’s HQ is in London ,is it Scottish party ? How many elections would UKIP have to fight and seats won before it could be called a Scottish party.
    Was Better Together’s only reason that UKIP was English I would have thought that would be perfect to illustrate that we are Better Together; England and Scotland together as one.  They are going against their own beliefs.

  40. beachthistle says:

    Given that the BBC has given themselves the job of being UKIP’s election agents and PR outlet we can surely expect this politically tectonic exchange between the ‘new force’ in British politics and BBC Scotchland’s best pals in BT to be all over BBC Scotchland’s website, news bulletins and discussion programmes…
    Well, em, not yet..
    ..and not holding my breath…

  41. Dan777A says:

    BT Logic
    UKIP=democratically elected political party=BAD
    Orange Order=racist unaccountable bigots=GOOD

  42. BuckieBraes says:

    ‘Better Together’ is, in itself, a stated position – manifestly untrue maybe, but stated nonetheless.
    As others have indicated here today it is illogical, bizarre and laughable to find that as soon as a political party – whose name contains reference to the very Union BT seeks to maintain – wishes to join forces, it is rebuffed. BT declares it is all in favour of self-determination after all, by confirming this is a ‘Scottish debate’. They need to remember this the next time Osborne is wheeled out to lecture us.
    As the Rev says, who needs satire?

  43. The Man in the Jar says:

    UKIP no OK?
    It is even in their party name FFS.

  44. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    Broken link on “Oil Scare” headline here:
    “Scottish Oil Revenues Massively Underestimated according to new report”

  45. Edulis says:

    Just been listening to the second showing of politics Scotland on BBC Parliament and the bit at the end with Peter McMahon and Kirsty Scott -lazy conflation of course from McMahon between SNP and Yes-Scotland. But the thing that struck me was that McMahon thought that the UK leaving the EU would set an impossible problem for Scotland trying to maintain Sterling. Why so?
    This is the usual anglocentric approach of the MSM. What Westminster does has to be right and we just have to lump it. If on the other hand you think about what is in the longterm interests of Scotland, then going with Sterling initially until the Euro settles out or doesn’t seems a pragmatic approach. It still leaves room for our own currency in the long run if the Euro goes pear-shaped. These issues are best dealt with in a strategic way and not a knee jerk emotional response.

  46. Mosstrooper says:

    @AmadeusMinkowski 4.52
    Aw naw, no mair bloody money. Quick, see if Engerland kin haunl it fur us. Am fair broke up aboot this so am ur. If this goes oan wull aw be middle class so we wull. Aye an wealthy… Ohh!

  47. muttley79 says:

    I think the No campaign and the MSM are attempting to smear independence supporters as extremists.  This is mainly targeted at the SNP.  The article in the SoS a few weeks ago was the start I reckon.  The No campaign and the MSM do not want a debate on independence.  The Calman episode was just the latest in this episode.  They want to stop a debate on independence because they are not confident what would happen if this occurs.  The No campaign/MSM want to put voters in Scotland off the entire debate.  Therefore, they are going to make the political process in Scotland as ugly as possible in the run up to the referendum.  We should expect a lot more abuse of the SNP and the Yes campaign, more smears will be made.  They seem to believe this will drain the energy and motivation of indy supporters.  We will have to pace ourselves, and try to remain positive.  They want us to retaliate, and are basically trolls.
    The good news is that they have no genuine arguments to make to the electorate.  They and the MSM know this, and this is why we should not rise to their bait.  A number of influential people in Scotland are aiming to maintain the power and status that the Union gives them.  They are not interested in what is good for the people of Scotland.  Self preservation is at stake for these people. 

  48. Jeannie says:

    Yes, I picked up on that point too – about being in a currency union with the rUK in the event rUK leaves the EU – and I wondered what point McMahon was trying to make.  I also wondered why the BBC interviewer didn’t say to him, “What specifically do you mean? What effect do you think it will have?”  But instead, the question was just allowed to hang in the air along with the negative tone used to express it.
    I’m assuming the correct answer is…..we start off in a currency union as that suits both countries initially, but if circumstances change in the future, we’ll revisit that decision and, if a better solution can be found, we’ll adopt it.  For the life of me, I cannot understand why other countries evolve and adapt according to changing circumstances but Scotland alone has to possess some kind of clairvoyant ability and foresee any and all possible events that might affect our economy and have ready-made solutions for all of them.
    It really is time for some of our journalists to grow up.

  49. Holebender says:

    Better Together couldn’t possibly allow a party with the word “independence” in its name to join, could they? United Kingdom Independence Party ungood!

  50. scottish_skier says:

    I’m largely convinced that all the calman crap was a useless attempt to deflect the UKIP story.
    UKIP’s win in England is a game changer, of that there is no doubt. The union just became extremely hard to sell, if not impossibly so.

  51. Patrick Roden says:

    @ Mutley97
    I totaly agree, but the problem for BT is that over two thirds of Scots say they want the Scottish government to begin negotiations with Westminster, about what will happen post the Independence referendum.
    This suggests people want more information and they will not be happy at the side who seems to be witholding this information or the side that refuses these post independence negotiations.
    So let them smear, lie, exagerate etc, the people are watching.

  52. HandandShrimp says:

    I think you are right about the about the attempt to smear Yes Scotland and the SNP as extremists. This is particularly funny in when Taylor, the Orange Order and UKIP have come out in favour of Better Together. Birds of a feather and all that.
    From a political perspective I wonder which the average Scottish voter would class as extreme?

  53. TYRAN says:

    UKIP have asked to join us and we have said no. If they ask again, we will say no again.” – I thought you said we were Better Together? 

  54. HandandShrimp says:

    Good point well presented

  55. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    I feel there is a grain of truth in the Calman served as a cover for UKIP’s major expansion in the English market. Especially given the notable lack of coverage of the UKIP bombshell within the “Scottish Press and MSM” this weekend.
    As an aside, I’m thinking that we ought to be more precise in our use of the phrase “Scottish Press and MSM”, since that is really a misnomer. Rather, it is a euphemism for UK State Propaganda Tools.

  56. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    Time to rebrand SNP to SIP (Scottish Independence Party)
    With the term nationalist being generally used in a pejorative sense, think of the difficulty they will and with independinists! 🙂

  57. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    5 May, 2013 at 6:02 pm
    It was a late action to try to put to bed the Taylor blood money brouhaha.
    Along came the UKIP and add another reason to keep the BT obfuscation pot boiling at max.
    The BT mob are stumbling form cockup to cockup and without their hired liars (aka Spin doctors) and the full panoply of the servile unionist media , would be dead in the water any time you like..

  58. DougtheDug says:

    Maybe Better Together can tell us their definition of a Scottish party?

    Since all parties are registered with the Electoral Commission is it a party with their headquarters in Scotland?

    That rules out Labour, the Conservatives and the Lib-Dems from Better Together. Their party addresses from the Electoral Commission are respectively:

    One Brewer’s Green
    Buckingham Gate
    SW1H 0RH

    30 Millbank
    SW1P 4DP

    8-10 Great George Street
    SW1P 3AE

  59. BuckieBraes says:

    It has been commented elsewhere on WoS that the voting shift (from both Tory and Labour camps) to UKIP in parts of England is tangible. I can believe this from speaking to family members in Greater Manchester.
    Surely the Better Together partners are not naïve enough to believe that they alone hold the political future of the UK in their hands in the event of a ‘No’ vote…they don’t. UKIP is now a very real part of the English political scene and, if Scotland votes ‘No’, we shall be lumbered with these people and their policies (indirectly if not directly).
    It is therefore inappropriate for BT not to allow UKIP to join its campaign. Let us at least see the potential horror of remaining in the UK in full Technicolor!

  60. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    UK State Propaganda Tools.



  61. HandandShrimp says:

    I tend to see it more as
    Cunning Neo-Conservative Tools

  62. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    Quite appropriate considering the comedienne we are considering.

  63. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    Bugger (the Panda) says:
    5 May, 2013 at 7:06 pm
    UK State Propaganda Tools = UKSTATPROP

    Thanks. UKSTATPROP added to List! Could also serve as a hashtag on twitter.
    The Call for Mnemonic Slogans:
    Looking for Mnemonic Slogans which are not only catchy, but contribute to dismantling BitterTogether’s Myths and Distortions.


  64. beachthistle says:

    Yup, asking Better Together what their definition of a Scottish political party is a great idea.
    On the Yes side, the 3 political parties are registered with the Electoral Commission as follows:

    Scottish Green Party
    20 Graham Street
    EH6 5QR

    Scottish National Party (SNP)
    Gordon Lamb House
    3 Jackson’s Entry
    EH8 8PJ

    Scottish Socialist Party/SSP
    Suite 370, 4th Floor
    Central Chambers
    93 Hope Street
    G2 6LD
    (and, btw:
    PO Box 408
    Newton Abbot
    TG12 9BG
    *UKIPScotland is one of their ‘descriptions’)

  65. Albert Herring says:

    A mnemonic is a device for aiding memory retention, for example, from the world of music, “Every Good Boy Deserves Fun” (the notes on the lines of the treble clef), or “Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle” (the order of sharps in a key signature, which also works for flat keys if you read it backwards).
    The word you’re looking for is, in a nutshell, “slogans”.

  66. DougtheDug says:

    There’s also the amazing and yet frightening idea that the Better Together press team actually believe that the “Scottish Labour Party”, the “Scottish Conservative Party” and the “Scottish Lib-Dems” are real and distinct Scottish parties and that Lamont, Davidson and Rennie are genuine party leaders.
    Under that strange and flawed belief system UKIP really are the outsiders.

  67. Morag says:

    Every Good Boy Deserves Favour when I went to music lessons, boyo!

    Do you want to know the one about the order of the cranial nerves of the dogfish?  Thought not….

  68. Albert Herring says:

    Well soreeee! Every Ghastly Boyo Deserves Flogging.

  69. YesYesYes says:

    Another useful mnemonic is the characterisation of the unionist parties’ absurd devo-something-or-other proposals collectively as (Mike Leigh’s) ‘ABIGAIL’S  party’, i.e. Anything But Independence Goes As Long as it Isn’t Led by Salmond.

  70. beachthistle says:

    Aye, although it could just be Better Together’s weekend press office students/interns screwing up regarding today’s ‘Scottish political party’ quote.
    But if Bungalow, Aikman etc. were actually involved/signed off on it, they will be the victims of their own groupthink: imagining their own spun myths to be universally accepted and constructs to be true – maybe because they are never challenged about them by the media nor anybody ‘who matters’..?
    Ah well, another 500 episodes of ‘The Better Together of It’ to go…

  71. scottish_skier says:

    I assume Better Together don’t count UKIP voters as ‘real Scots’. They may be small in number up here, but they have the right to a voice.
    I understand they also don’t count SNP voters who support the union as ‘Real Scots’ either, given the constant attacks on the SNP. Then there’s Green and SSP voters who support the union – why are their voices not heard by Better Together?

    UKIP have been called xenophobic, but from what I’ve read, they seem to be far more inclusive than Better Together.

  72. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    @Albert Herring
    Not quite, and here is why.
    An Etymology of Mnemonic Slogans.
    A historic definition of slogan is “a Scottish Highland war cry”! ;
    indeed slogan is an anglicisation of the Scottish Gaelic sluagh-ghairm (war-cry).
    Now, as you rightly note, “a mnemonic is a device for aiding memory retention”. So I chose to use mnemonic as an adjectival, with the intent that the “war-cry” would have a mnemonic device contained therein.
    The origin of this was my struggle to reify those strings which appear on twitter today, and are generally known as “hashtags”. They often bundle three concepts together; acronym, mnemonic and slogan. I will be glad to hear any further ruminations on this.

  73. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    ‘ABIGAIL’S  party’. Pure dead brilliant!

  74. Albert Herring says:

    I would say it’s chewed up enough as it is.

  75. Tom Hogg says:

    “UKIP have asked to join us and we have said no. If they ask again, we will say no again. They are not a Scottish party and this is a Scottish debate.”
    Time for a visit to Register House to check out the provenance of UKOK’s large donors.

  76. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Amadeus M –
    The Call for Mnemonic Slogans:
    I’d forgotten all about this.
    Country & Western song titles could be a fruitful area for slogans, good for T-shirts etc:
    How Can I Miss You If You Won’t Go Away?
    Get Your Tongue Outta My Mouth Cos I’m Kissing You Goodbye.
    Velcro Arms…Teflon Heart
    I’m So Miserable Without You It’s Like Having You Here.
    I Keep Forgetting I Forgot About You.
    I’ve Got You On My Conscience But At Least You’re Off My Back.
    Ever Since I Said ‘I Do’ There’s A Lot Of Things You Don’t.
    The Next Time You Throw That Frying Pan My Face Ain’t Gonna Be There.
    and finally…
    I Liked You Better Before I Knew You So Well.

  77. JLT says:

    scottish_skier says:
    5 May, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    I’m largely convinced that all the calman crap was a useless attempt to deflect the UKIP story.
    UKIP’s win in England is a game changer, of that there is no doubt. The union just became extremely hard to sell, if not impossibly so.
    I agree, Scottish Skier.
    This is not only getting ludicrously daft for the Better Together campaign, it is becoming an unholy unnatural disaster for them. They are slowly getting tied up in knots through deals of their own making. If it isn’t dodgy donor money, it is who should be in the BT campaign. The Orange Order and BNP are OK, but the ‘actual UK’ party is now banned because they are deemed lunatics and racist (you couldn’t make it up …where do the BNP and OO go from here??). Cameron is bricking it now, as he didn’t see this curve ball coming with the elections last week – now he has to debate whether to have the EU referendum on this side of the General Election – and if he does that, then Independence in Scotland will be a shoo-in for sure.
    For the Better Campaign, this is no longer a case of being stuck between a rock and a hard place …it now has sharks swimming around it too!! So, imagine the BT mob hanging from a rope, and they are wondering where they should swing to …to the rock, to the hard place …or into shark infested waters…every choice a bad decision ….SWEET!!!
    If I was a Labour MSP right now, I would seriously be worrying about my seat in Holyrood. Wonder if any will suddenly reveal their true colours, and shout ‘Yes’!

  78. Richard Lucas says:

    Meanwhile, over on the Twitter Cyberlabbery has eaten itself as the ironically-named Ian S Smart throws racist accusations around.

  79. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Richard Lucas-
    Please, for non-Twitterers, give us a taste of what Smart is on about.

  80. Richard Lucas says:

    The Bold Smart twittered:    Better 100 years of the Tories than the turn on the Poles and the Pakis that would follow independence failing to deliver.

  81. ianbrotherhood says:

    PS Okay, think I found it via the Twitter column above – astonishing stuff. The guy must be pissed.
    I’m not even going to transcribe what’s there – it’s truly appalling. No doubt Rev will find a way of highlighting it for The Great Untweetered.
    To get it straight – this is the same Ian Smart who appeared alongside Kate Higgins last weekend on the Politics Show? (I’m asking a question here, not making a statement, mindful that the dude I’m thinking of is a lawyer.)
    Seems fair to assume he won’t be appearing on it again.
    Oh well. No big loss.

  82. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Richard L-
    Sorry. Our posts overlapped.
    The statement doesn’t even make sense. WTF is he trying to say? Presumably ‘on’ should’ve been ‘of’?
    Beware abody – this looks like more bear-baiting.

  83. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    Ian S Smart twitter profile states he is

    Lefty lawyer; Scottish Labour Party hack; St Mirren till I die 
    So he is the dude you have in mind. 
    Do you mean the BBC Sunday Politics Show. If so. they are so biased against independence, this type of crap is likely to get him on more! 

  84. Cath says:

    If Better Together won’t allow UKIP to be involved because they’re “not Scottish” what happens if they win or form a coalition in the 2015 election and we’ve voted no? Will BT be running to defend us, insisting we shouldn’t be ruled by them as they’re not Scottish?

    Surely not. UKIP are a UK party and BT are all about keeping us in the UK, being run by UK parties. So total hypocrisy. And in any case, UKIPpers and BNP types seem to be the main people active on their FB pages, with removing powers from the Scottish parliament or abolishing it a very popular position there. So they’re not being in any way honest in denying UKIP types are who they appeal to and who most support them.

  85. john king says:

    This reminds me of the film I watched the other day (TED) and the opening sequence was setting the scene for the lonely kid being SO unpopular that even when he tried to step in and stop the kids from beating up the Jewish kid they all told him to beat it,even the kid who was getting beaten up,
    btw it was a funny film
    poor old UKIPNAEPALS
    unless of course if your a tory in which case you just found a new friend for life

  86. john king says:

    Just an observation,
    I feel the UK  is suddenly becoming a dark and alien place and not at all the country I grew up in and I’m am truly terrified of what might happen post a no vote next year, I’m getting parallels with Germany in the twenties 
    I am filled with a cold dread 

  87. john king says:

    “You couldn’t make it up.

    I can only imagine the fun some playwright will have in a future independent Scotland. The farce would almost write itself.”

    Now there’s a mouthwatering thought,
    a Brian Rix farce maybe?
    with Alistair Darling with his trousers at his ankles,
    that I would pay good money to see,
    well he is reputed to have good knees


  88. Patrick Roden says:

    @ JLT,
    ” Cameron is bricking it now, as he didn’t see this curve ball coming with the elections last week”
    It’s funny that the press are reporting the rise of UKip as some kind of surprise.
    It’s not !
    I have been banging on on Wings in the run up to these elections that most of my English friends and collegues down here in England have been telling me they will be voting Ukip.
    The more important point is that when I have asked them why they are attracted to Ukip, they are almost all saying some sort of ‘Ukip are the only party that reflect our (English) desires, or the only party that’s listening’ to the English working man, etc.
    They are telling me that they will vote for Ukip in the general elections as well.
    Now all the parties have their own internal polling and these voters will be telling the major parties the same.
    MP will lose seats, if something isn’t done and the major parties don’t start ‘reflecting the English working man/listening to the English’
    So if these parties want to take votes from Ukip they Must move further right and they will.
    So the hypocracy of the BT mob saying they will not allow Ukip to join, as the main parties are busily adopting the policies that have made Ukip so popular in England, is there for all to see.
    I am convinced Ukips rise is a major turning point in the independence campaign, but the full impact of this has not yet been realised.

  89. Patrick Roden says:

    I live in the West Midlands, who did not have a vote in these elections.
    Just wait ’till the metropolitian areas vote, then you will see the real support that Ukip now enjoys in England.

  90. Cath says:

    “I feel the UK  is suddenly becoming a dark and alien place and not at all the country I grew up in and I’m am truly terrified of what might happen post a no vote next year, I’m getting parallels with Germany in the twenties “
    Interesting you should say that. I was eavesdropping on a conversation yesterday in a Scottish bar close to the border. There were 3 people talking, all with distinctly English accents. The conversation was about the rise of UKIP and the far right, the parallels to Germany, the terrifying bias of the BBC in supporting and allowing it. It was mostly a conversation about Scottish independence though. Something they were moving from being “comfortable” about to seeing as an urgent necessity. But with provisos – for example, there was an obvious fear Scotland may not be so different and may go the same way.
    I really felt for them suddenly, in a way I hadn’t considered before. Because the opposition are going all out to try and paint Scotland as anti-English, to create tensions and they themselves are cultivating the appearance of Scotland as a nasty, bigotted place – doing it deliberately as George Foulkes would say. With that going on up here and independence being a bit of a leap of faith, and what’s happening down south, it must be a pretty scary time for many people in a whole lot of different ways.
    The UK really is rapidly becoming a different and scary place, and it’s really critical that anyone decent in Scotland (and England) stands up to it now. It needs to go beyond just a discussion about independence and into what kind of country we want to be. And if the mainstream parties and media are happy for that descent into it being an anti-EU, anti-immigration, racist and increasingly bitter, nasty place, then they have no business at all not accepting UKIP as a big part of that.
    If OTOH, they want to join those of us standing up against that and for something better, they’d be very welcome. They’re running out of time though. Right now, if there is a vote on whether to leave the EU, for example – something that would see chaos for business and those working here from the EU, or in the EU from here – just who will be standing up to defend it? It appears the entire establishment is too busy pandering to the anti-immigrant, ant-EU folk to represent anyone else.

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