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Wings Over Scotland

The Great Urging

Posted on January 10, 2017 by

As we’ve always understood it, readers, the definition of “news” is supposed to be “a new thing which has happened that people didn’t previously know about”.


Evidently the rules have changed since we were young cub reporters.

21 January 2015 (Ruth Davidson)


27 April 2016 (Kezia Dugdale)


6 May 2016 (Ruth Davidson)


17 May 2016 (David Mundell)


24 July 2016 (prominent anti-independence voice Sir Ian Wood)


27 August 2016 (Ruth Davidson)


6 September 2016 (Ruth Davidson)


10 September 2016 (some arsehole)


15 September 2016 (UK government ministers)


17 September 2016 (Kezia Dugdale)


26 September 2016 (Willie Rennie, Jackson Carlaw)


26 September 2016 (Kezia Dugdale)


10 October 2016 (Better Together campaigner “Professor” Jim Gallagher)


23 October 2016 (Kezia Dugdale)


20 December 2016 (Kezia Dugdale)


23 December 2016 (Sir Tom Hunter)


7 January 2017 (Ruth Davidson, Iain Gray)


9 January 2017 (actually one single “business leader”)


We have the oddest feeling that this story will break again, folks.

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  1. 10 01 17 17:56

    The Great Urging | speymouth

593 to “The Great Urging”

  1. Jimbo says:

    Does anyone get the feeling the Unionists don’t want another independence referendum?

  2. galamcennalath says:

    Gone are the days of Wendy Alexander’s “Bring it on”.

    I wonder what Unionists all have against IndyRef2? 😉

  3. Truth says:

    Reading all that certainly triggers some base urges.

    Just as well I usually avoid all the press and no longer watch telly.

    It wouldn’t do my health any good, or theirs.

  4. Peter A Bell says:

    What do all these people have in common? They all regard democracy as a threat. We are entitled to ask why.

  5. blackhack says:

    No news (papers) is good news……Must be kinda quiet out there.

  6. defo says:

    Do you think they might be trying to tell us something?

    Or, mibbees avoiding having to discuss almost anything else!

    Enough, already! (should be yes2 campaign slogan btw)

  7. Greannach says:

    Might I throw my hat in the ring and urge Nicola Sturgeon not to invade Moldova. Please stop now – this is madness!

  8. Helena Brown says:

    Strange that, you might get the feeling they were actually a bit feared.
    I hope our Nicola will hold her fire until some pain is felt among those who are quite content right now.

  9. Greannach says:

    galamcennalath @ 4:11pm

    Wendy Alexander? Now there’s a name for the past. She seemed useless at the time, but Kezia Dugdale makes her look like Indira Gandhi.

  10. chris kilby says:

    Are they trying to tell us something?

  11. Macart says:

    Wait now! I’m seeing a pattern.

  12. Steve Bowers says:

    So let me get this right, some people think that Nicola Sturgeon shouldn’t call another referendum

  13. Janet says:

    Basically, the unionists won the first time round, hence why they don’t support indyref2.

    Not really a mystery.

    But interesting to note that this story has featured in the National.

    There will be indyref2, at a time when Nicola can win it. Unionism is in decline and it’s all that Ruth has to sustain her group.

  14. Luigi says:

    There seems to be quite a degree of urgency in the yoon tone. They cannot be running scared, can they? Surely not. 🙂

    Well, yoons, if you thought 2014 was squeaky bum time, you ain’t seen nothing yet. 2014 was just the rehearsal for the main event. 🙂

  15. Luigi says:

    Nicola should hold back IndyRef 2 until Scotland absolutely screams for it.

    Not long to wait IMHO. 🙂

  16. msean says:

    The Tories were nowhere before the first indyref in Scotland,no wonder they want another one.

  17. Francis Mooney says:

    ” some arsehole”. Spat my tea at that one! Very funny!

  18. R-type Grunt says:

    It’s particularly interesting since my Twitter timeline is full of Yoons saying bring it on because they’ll win by a mile. Something doesn’t compute.

  19. Noos is wot the Brit Nats say is noos.

    There is nothing like Brit.
    Nothing in this world.

  20. Itchybiscuit says:

    Greannach says:
    10 January, 2017 at 4:15 pm
    Might I throw my hat in the ring and urge Nicola Sturgeon not to invade Moldova. Please stop now – this is madness!

    A pal of mine lives and teaches English in Moldova – I’ll have to inform him the invasion’s off. He’ll be relieved. ;o)

  21. galamcennalath says:

    They all support a system at Westminster where in the lower chamber MPs can be elected with 25% of the vote, and governments formed with <40%. The upper chamber is unelected and reserves seats for clergy. The UK wide parties and media now lie on a spectrum of soft to hard right. Xenophobia and isolationism have triumphed in South Britain. They have a state broadcast chartered to fight challenges to that system.

    The Scottish pro democracy campaign for constitutional change represents a clear and present danger to them.

    IndyRef2 …. at a time when their system is failing badly, they have destroyed most of their own arguments, and in the shadow of their lies at IndyRef1 …. must utterly terrify them.

  22. Robert Peffers says:

    Robert Peffers says: 10 January, 2017 at 4:38 pm:

    @Nana says: 10 January, 2017 at 4:03 pm:
    (on the last thread).
    “Shock news…reporting Scotland is“.
    There’s nae chance the BBC will tell us their audience figures. Anyone would think they are ashamed of them

  23. handclapping says:

    Its sort of like the queue outside the loo at a party, standing there with their legs crossed hoping like hell that the DJ doesn’t play Ken Dodd or Tiny Tim in case the shit pours out of them. Or am I thinking of the wrong sort of urges?

    I’d spike their drinks with syrup of figs.

  24. sassenach says:

    Well, I will certainly be accepting Nicola’s decision on timing, she hasn’t put a foot wrong thus far.

    The volume of unionist ‘noise’ at the moment simply underlines their absolute fear of any kind of democracy in this great UK of ours!!

    Keep working away, folks.

  25. What else can the unionists report on in defence of the state of their precious union.

    They cannot boast about the state of the NHS in England, compared to the Scottish NHS, or the fall in the value of the pound, exiting Europe with no coherent plan in place, the impact austerity and welfare cuts are having on our public services and poor and vulnerable.

    So they don’t have any other choice but continue with the broken record of demanding Nicola sturgeon doesn’t call a second independence referendum and trying to con everyone into believing we are bettertogether

  26. John H. says:

    The longer they can hold back a referendum, then the more time they have to bring potential NO voters in to Scotland.

  27. galamcennalath says:

    R-type Grunt says:

    It’s particularly interesting since my Twitter timeline is full of Yoons saying bring it on because they’ll win by a mile. Something doesn’t compute.

    I suspect one faction of Yoonery thinks if there must be an IndyRef2, sooner is better than later because when Brexit actually kicks in, their UK is going to look even less attractive.

    The mainstream faction, as highlighted by Rev Stu, just wishes it would go away altogether.

  28. ScottishPsyche says:

    You would almost believe that IndyRef2 was just around the corner!

    Even if the FM said there was to be no Indyref for the foreseeable future, the Yoons would all still be screaming about it. She would have to sign a declaration in blood or something to satisfy them. It reeks of fear and desperation.

    I think she should say that just for the hell of it and then go for it with little warning. Imagine the howling fury.

  29. Ken MacColl says:

    Gave up on the Scotsman years ago but it was only in the last two years that I stopped reading The Herald. Sad to see that it has continued its descent to being a predictable echo of the Express or Mail – but more expensive than either.
    Surely the bell must toll soon ?

  30. gus1940 says:

    Just like on a cracked old record – the media needle seems to be stuck on the farcical statement that Nicola has surrendered and been forced to abandon plans for Indyref2 to take place in 2017.

    Of course they omit to say that she has never voiced any intention to hold the ref this year.

  31. mogabee says:

    I’d not really noticed all this urging…

    Too busy I guess with my own debauchery yesterday. 😀

  32. Arbroath1320 says:

    As many folks know I’m not the quickest on the uptake around these parts. Could I ask if anyone knows what the unionists thoughts are on Nicola Sturgeon holding a Second referendum? 😉

    Having read Stu’s piece here I’m not quite sure what he is getting at. 😀 Have the unionists been too busy pushing for hard Brexit to be bothered to pass any comment at all about Nicola Sturgeon and her plans for a second referendum? 😀

  33. JLT says:

    It’s basically just arrogance and fear. They are almost literally screaming at us: ‘What do you not understand? We don’t want another Referendum …even if half of the Scottish nation does? Go away! Just go AWAAAAY!!!!’

    And I’m waiting for it. Now that Nicola’s not intending to have one this year, no matter what happens with Brexit, we will then get triumphant cries of ‘Bottler! Feart!

    Aye …denounced for trying to have a Referendum, ridiculed for postponing it. You just can’t win.

  34. Greannach says:

    Itchybiscuit @ 4.38 pm

    You can let him know it’s only thanks to the urging of Ruth Dugdale and public-sector-pay enthusiast Adam Tompkins that the invasion will not now go ahead.

    Rule Britannia!

  35. Bob Sinclair says:

    It’s about time these Unionists stopped obsessing about another indyref & got on with their Day Jobs.

  36. Kevin Evans says:

    Hey – stopped commenting on here a while back in preference to posting on twitter but I still read the articles but I have to comment on this after seeing that c¥nt sir Ian wood.

    That multi billionaire had the cheek during indyref to make a public comment saying he had to say something as he was worried about his grandchildrens future if Scotland went Indy. As kids were being thrust into poverty and food banks were increasing daily this tosser had the Gaul to insult us by saying he was worried about his grandchildren. The only worry he had was in his grandchildrens billions of pounds of inheritance.

    Time to get out this union folks. Ironically for the sake of Ian woods grandchildrens future. You can thank us Yessers later woody boy.

  37. Arbroath1320 says:

    I wonder if all this broken record stuff from the unionists is a poor attempt to cover up the news about viewing figures for (dis)Reporting Scotland and listening figures for Radio Scotland? 😉

  38. scottieDog says:

    But surely if they wanted to see the very last and really definitely death of the independence movement thwy would, in the words of wendy Alexander cry – “bwing it on”
    Since there isn’t any support for it and all that!

  39. Rock says:

    Can Scotland afford to wait beyond 2017 for a new referendum on independence?

  40. schrodingers cat says:

    they argued endlessly to hold indyref1 asap and about the question until the date and question were established, then they went on and on about plan b, the currency and the eu.

    once indyref2 starts, what will they do then?

  41. Chess man. says:

    It would be a huge mistake to fall into a, “Why delay, Indy2 is now urgent?” It smells of a devious but masterful(sic) WM/media trap. Best we all support the sofar excellent leadership qualities displayed by many of the present SNP/allies group with their body of “caring for Scotland” policies. Being seen resolutely trustworthy – giving us the moral ‘high road’ – a better life for the Scottish people in future will gain ‘now a Yes voter’ momentum and win Indy2. We must “Hold and wait” for a minimum of 2 years. I predict the FM will announce a Sept 2019 IndyRef. (Do you want a small wager on that Rev Stu?)

  42. Andrew McLean says:

    Oh for god sake don’t they know referendum means referendum!
    I prefer a soft referendum, some prefer a hard one, some even a blue and white one, some have even proposed a blue white and green one!

    But honestly I will stop wanting a referendum when Kezia and Ruth stop being lesbians!

    If they want to walk over my countries right to self determination, why should they be upset if others want to walk over their right to sexual equality.

  43. Jean Nisbet says:

    There’s a message here for those of us who want independence: since indyref1, the unionists have never let up on this constant repetition of ‘don’t do it, Nicola.’ And, make no mistake, it’s quite a clever tactic: people who are wavering over how to vote may be sick of indyref2 before we get to it. It’s up to us to revive the pro-independence groups we had in the run up to indyref1 and make our message clear.

  44. Roboscot says:

    Why is Nicola Sturgeon planning to invade Moldova? I can’t believethe Scottish Government woulddo a thing like that.

  45. Who put the ‘urge’ in Sturgeon.
    I doubt that the Dead Tree Scrolls even consult the Yoon lap dogs against whom they attach this hoary old chestnut any more.
    We are on the brink of the greatest social economic and political disaster Scotland has ever faced, and Dugdale, Davidson Rennie, and their quite frankly hopeless gangs of card carriers still bang on about Indyref 2.
    May is going to take England and Wales out of the greatest Single Market in the world, 500 million wealthy customers, hundreds of thousands of EU workers who are propping up England’s Health Service, tourist industry, agriculture, infrastructure programme, and much more, are being threatened with expulsion from rUK, EU investment in R&D, universities, and banking will be lost, 1.2 million UK citizens will be forced out of their retirement homes in Spain, France, Italy, and English and Welsh holiday makers and workers will need visas and work permits to travel and work in Europe.
    Prices have already started to rise and Brxit is still 3 months away.
    Davidson Dugdale and Rennie don’t want to talk about that, do they?
    One reason for their silence on Brexit is that they have absolutely no influence within their Parties to speak on Brexit. They are small fry, insignificant, and ironically they can’t see that WM is as dismissive of them as it is of our democratically elected Scottish Government.
    None of them have the resources, money, or boots on the ground to mount another Better Together Campaign.
    The YES side will have 56 battle hardened MPs, of an extremely high quality, who unlike Douglas Alexander, Lords Reid and McConnell and Darling, and Harris, Greatrex, and the Clunking Fist, this time.
    Who would even consider a CU with isolated England and Wales? Borders? England will refuse to trade with iScotland? The only way Scotland can continue with EU membership is to opt for Self Determination.
    Every lie and threat used during Indyref 1 and backed up by a compliant MSM has been debunked now that England and Wales are off into the wilderness.
    They will prattle on about Indyref 2 and the Herald Scotsman Record and P&J will keep churning out this same old garbage, because to report the actual news, that England is about to become a Third World Backwater is not on.
    Bring it on, in our own time.

  46. Golfnut says:

    The FM is not going to be rushed, she has put May between a rock and a hard place, and everybody across Europe knows it, that’s the real issue for these clowns, how they appear and how the world views them, hence all this referendum drivel.

  47. Ian says:

    Maybe they should focus on making the UK work – ‘UK current account deficit widens to near record levels as weakened pound fails to boost exports’ (This is

    Ok that’s another fail so they’ll just try to hang on to Scotland’s revenues instead so they can pretend to have a viable economy for a (short) while longer. Last one in the water is a rotten egg.

  48. Robert Louis says:

    Could be summed up as, ‘Sturgeon urged to rule out indyref2, because unionists are terrified she will win next time’.

    There, now we have the full picture.

  49. Greannach says:

    Roboscot @ 5:36 pm

    I’m afraid it’s all too true.

    The First Minister (who as we all know was unelected had been planning to invade Moldova in an attempt to deflect attention away from the crisis facing Scotland’s beetroot industry. Only the masterful interventions of Ruth Dugdale and Anas Tompkins saved the day for the plucky Moldovans.

    I’m sure I heard it on Reporting Scotland or Call Kaye.

  50. Maureen Mangan says:

    And whilst all this goes on, the only voices really showing about another independence referendum is their own.

  51. Robert Graham says:

    well if thats all have to say just keep repeating it , like name rank serial number much the same as Brexit means Brexit means f/kn Brexit , it’s all they have and they are totally shittn themselves , all their ammo was expended during 2014 , in the words of George Bush aye him that font of wisdom ” won’t get fooled again ” i think he was attempting to say in his own clear and concise style .

  52. Maureen Mangan says:

    And whilst all this goes on, the only voices really shouting about another independence referendum is their own.

  53. mike d says:

    As Peter a bell says. Why are unionists so frightened of Scottish democracy?.

  54. scottieDog says:

    The other thing to bear in mind, the msm propaganda machine will really ramp up over the brexit period claiming it a success and the ‘correct’ decision. A bit like Mr marr’s famous report on Iraq.

  55. winifred mccartney says:

    They know all their lies have been debunked, the msm and bbc are withering away and they realise they are defeated- none of them would dare say ‘bring it on’ or appear on tv or in front of an audience and make their false claims and promises again – they would be run out of town. Even the bbc daren’t publish their vieiwing figures – wonder why – we are all sick of their lies – monday night 38% increase in drink driving – total rubbish cannot even do simple arithmetic and they wonder why no one believes them.

  56. Gary45% says:

    I reckon the Yoon media and associates like Wood e.t.c, should just come out and say loud and clear on TV and Newspapers.
    “Oi Sweaties Shut-Up and Get Back In Your Box”, as this is basically what they are saying, I am certain NONE of them have the balls to do so, as this would just show their total contempt for Scotland.
    The Yoons, “a pathetic little bunch of money grabbing, back stabbing, robbing inbred wuckfits.”
    Tick Tock

  57. mike d says:

    5.22 pm scottie dog. Agree,all the yoon propaganda keep telling us. No support for indy 2 in Scotland. Then why don’t you tell us to “bring it on”. Because you yoons are sh*****g yourselves,that’s the reason why.

  58. Marcia says:

    Re-unification of Moldova with Romania shouts Ruth Davidson. They can’t be independent she screams. They keep giving 12 points to Romania in every Eurovision Song Contest.

  59. Smallaxe says:

    As a rule, I will never be urged.
    As an urge, I will never be ruled.
    Purge the Urge.

    Peace Always

  60. Greannach says:

    Marcia @6.15 pm

    And quite right too.

    As we all know, there are no independent countries in the world except for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland which has existed since the world was created – or at least since 1922.

  61. Greannach says:

    Marcia @6.15 pm

    It’s good to see that Ruth has urges towards Moldova. Reassuring.

  62. Graeme says:

    The Yoons, “a pathetic little bunch of money grabbing, back stabbing, robbing inbred wuckfits.”

    I like that

    Is their a collective term for yoons?
    Maybe something like A boil of yoons, put in context a festering puss filled boil of yoons


  63. Albert Herring says:

    Does this mean that proponents of yoonyoonism are opposed to a second independence referendum?

    I seem to recall they were opposed to the first one as well.

  64. Cuilean says:

    The tories came second at Holyrood by harping on that they would defend Scotland (and the UK) from Indyref2.

    Cue their glorious leader bullishly sitting on tanks and, well, bulls.

    This worked at Holyrood so they continue with the ploy. The Yoons have consolidated into an uneasy alliance of the rightwing middle class Tories and left wing working class, proddy SLAB rump.

    “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” applies and in Scotland the SLAB & Tory Yoon common enemy is, of course, the SNP.

    But such an unholy alliance cannot succeed in the long term. Added to which neither red or blue Yoon has any actual policies of their own.

    The SNP is keeping its powder dry until the godawful mess of a hard Brexit bites.

    The Tories will, of course, sell out Scottish fisheries rights in exchange for City of London passporting.

    The resultant Indyref2 will be a landslide for Yes.

    The SNP’s response should be that they are the actual defenders of the people of Scotland, from the real enemy, the right wing blue & red tories.

  65. gus1940 says:


    In case anybody missed it:-

    On tonight’s National 6pm BBC News the disaster that is the A&E crisis in England was heavily featured.

    However, just in case anybody thought that the situation in Scotland’s A&E Depts.was thought to be better some evil bastard inserted a statement that the measurement of the situation in the 2 countries was different so that nobody could conclude that our NHS was any better.

  66. Conan the Librarian™ says:


    “A Spittoon of Yoons”

  67. Jaydeeess says:

    Reminds me of the story of Bre’r Rabbit and the Tar Baby.

  68. Clive Scott says:

    “A Yahoo of yoons”

  69. Hamish100 says:

    Dugdale doesn’t want a referendum for 5 years. Is Six ok? She obviously believes by that time Scotland will be totally subsumed by England and trapped forever.

    Strange though in that Dugdale will not last 5 months following council elections.

    We will have Indy 2 when we are ready thanks.

  70. Hamish100 says:

    Gus 1940

    Re A&E waiting times. England’s 4 hrs is much shorter than Scotland’s 4 hrs so we are obviously worse!

  71. John Edgar says:

    Nicola, do hold Indyref2 when we are ready.

  72. TJenny says:

    A festering of yoons.

    A whataboutery of yoons.

    A f*ckwittery of yoons.

  73. Robert Graham says:

    when the BBC feature prominently a former SNP minister the ” OH AYE ” in me starts to twitch , Now i haven’t read the article the BBC have chosen to highlight ” BUT ” and there is the nub of it i wouldn’t trust that lot to cut my grass , i do hope its not another Gordon Wilson type exclusive , please please if anyone above normal member position is paying attention , have a bloody word and emphasize the MSM are not benevolent or do they have the Independence movements interests in the forefront of their remit.
    As for the grass dont have any unless timber decking can be trimmed its a pretty useless exercise if you ask my opinion

  74. K1 says:

    Ironically it is Davidson, Dugdale and most of the msm in Scotland that has kept the ‘referendum’ uppermost in people’s consciousness, let’s face it the SNP don’t get much in the way of publicity directly and spend most of their time explaining the same quite simply logic over and over again. All the screeching ‘no referendum’ merely reveals ‘their’ fears, that’s it.

    Nicola will deploy the ‘referendum’ when necessary to do so…when all other options have been completely thrown back in our face, and we head perilously close to our EU citizenship being revoked by the reckless Westminster government in England, then and only then will our country decide our own fate through the perfectly democratic utility of a ‘referendum’.

    It’s no rocket science. (well it is fur them…obvs)

    (btw their (both s/lab and s/tory’s) internal polling must be taking a hit on the back of Brexit, don’t ya think, this would explain the panic about indyref2?)

  75. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, but do all these people and papers thing we should have a second independence referendum?

    I DEMAND answers, and I WANT more articles about it. Or I’ll thwceem and thcweem until I’m thick.

  76. Glamaig says:

    Channel 4 News: English A&E crisis blah blah… in Wales its just as bad… blah blah… ‘and in Scotland more patients are waiting more than 4 hours in A and E too.

    Is that actually a lie or is one of these weasel worded things thats misleading although technically correct, because, say, it was 96.3% and is now 96.2% seen within 4 hours?

    Looks like Channel 4 have been told not to say that SNHS performance is better than England and Wales. They’ve put a bit of thought into that phrasing.

  77. heedtracker says:

    Ian Wood’s a mad old git. We just do not understand how lucky Scotland was to float on oil and yet its all been looted by wildly greedy lunatics, like Ian Wood, and then “knighted” for it .

    He’s a miserable old bastard anyway and you cant take it with you. His sons are nice guys, slackers, in Lamborghinis, so that you might be sitting in the car having a fish supper down at Stoney, and then some tit in a yellow Lambo pulls up next to you, engine roaring away, for no actual purpose, other than you knowing that someone in a £350k Lambo’s pulled up, to a chippie on the boolie at Stoney.

    Santa brought me one too though,

    Cant beat a good rant of a morn!

  78. yesindyref2 says:

    Don’t know whether I should say this but it’s never stopped me im the past.

    After Indy Ref 1 there was a very quick huge surge for the SNP, Greens, RISE, and a sense of unity, even talk of joint YES candidates, but that started fragmenting even before the Holyrood elections got under way. It went from bad to worse, and left alone afterwards, who knows where we might be? Shut up!

    The loony left having a pop at us loony SNP, the loony Greens having a go at everyone, and the loony non-affiliated having a go at all the rest of us loonies. Scotland goes loony loony! Wayhay!

    But with all these madcap Unionists going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on, mouth-frothing in their fermented instanitary instanity, we seem to be getting to live with each others’s differences better than ever. A few shouting matches then off to the pub. Yippee! Pass the nuts. The ones with the Union Jack tattooed on them.

    So what I say is go, mad Unionists go, keep it up. The more the merrier.

  79. heedtracker says:

    Glamaig says:
    10 January, 2017 at 7:32 pm
    Channel 4 News: English A&E crisis blah blah

    C4 news is just ITV news, exact same crews, different presenters, totally anglo centric, loath Scottish democracy, no Scots presenters, ever.

  80. heedtracker says:

    Oops, Sarah Smith was C4 news too and hasn’t she been amazing, and not just a n other anti Scottish democracy bundle of UKOK delights.

  81. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links now over on O/T.

  82. harry mcaye says:

    Glamaig – I have a chart saved on my computer showing the A&E performance in Scotland from Aug 2014. It has only dropped below 90% twice, in January and February of 2015. I think it’s fair to say we have the best figures consistently in the UK. It can be found here –

  83. Stoker says:

    TJenny on 10 January, 2017 at 7:17 pm:

    How about a festering f#ckwittery of Yoons? Sounds good to me!

  84. frogesque says:

    @Robert Graham 7.18

    It was Kenneth MacAskil. Nuff said.

  85. Capella says:

    Was your search term for that graphic “broken record”?

  86. clan rossy says:

    O/T sitting in my works messroom last week
    2 of my workmates where discussing brexit
    and theresa mays new human bill of rights and other things
    that have happened since 2014 .

    i could not believe
    what i was hearing when one of them said to me
    that he has changed his mind and he was going
    to vote yes next time and my other workmate followed
    with the same statement 10 mins later .

    i asked them why since the 2 of them where hard no
    voters and they said it was brexit 1st and secondly
    the lies being pumped out by the bbc and msm
    and thirdly they cant stand theresa may .

    to say i was shocked is an understatement , hey but there ye go times are certainly a changing .

  87. carjamtic says:

    It is not surprising to hear the Timbre of these Yoons,warbling away.

    Like the caged bird (born into the cage) they have everything they need and they know no better.

    Close the cage door they sing,close it,but the door is always open,it is not locked,they can know freedom,anytime they like,but make excuses not to (project fear).

    Unfettered bureaucracy,is only one of a few small obstacles to hop over,there is nothing to fear (the brexit bystander effect ?).

    In Tolstoy’s Letter to a Hindu,he lays it all out very clearly,the inconvenient truth of these servants of ping and pong is that,they have enslaved themselves.

  88. Breeks says:

    What I find kinda funny is that in the event the Supreme Court acknowledges Scotland’s inalienable sovereignty, and this startling revelation “somehow” spirals into international recognition of Scotland’s inalienable sovereignty, then these bluenose Britnats will be whining like leaky balloons, foaming at the mouth, and demanding a referendum to maintain some kind of formal Union with their British chums which IS compatible with our sovereignty.

    How I would love to see that scenario unfold, and see these Britnat mouthpieces confounded by binding legal precedent, and obliged to argue the progressive case for creating a formal union with England where none properly exists.

    The second great joy will be to see England left without their precious Union with Scotland as the cold winter chill of Brexit catches up with them, and looking for someone to blame for the mess of Scotland’s departure and the wholly unnecessary debacle of Brexit. Sooner or later, and I rather suspect it may be sooner, they’ll get around to their sleazy corrupt media, who cheated, lied, and conned the Scots out of their progressive constitutional debate, and then turned on the immigrants and the vulnerable to agitate faux outrage because it was politic for UKIP’s agenda, an agenda so shortsighted and I’ll considered it’s sole achievement was to set England on a path of economic collapse and into European exile, branded with the stigma of xenophobic right wing prejudice. What a result for the BBC and toxic rags like the Express.

    Perhaps we should all be urging Nicola to avoid a referendum too, at least until the dust we’ve blown off our Scottish sovereignty settles, and we can then hold a ratification plebiscite about what we do next. I mean, a referendum can be such a troublesome thing if you rush in to it and aren’t prepared for the consequences.

  89. Artyhetty says:

    Ah, all this is very interesting, entertaining and perplexing. (That one is in case any unionists are in need of reassurance that they are on the right track)

    One thing though, we have to stay one step ahead, or three, and to counter the brainwashing. I nearly typed brian washing, who’s Brian!

    The SNP are clever cookies, and miles ahead of the loony unionists, and they have the measure of things, but some still believe this crap from state run media.

    Great comments here again today, oops I nearly typed toady!

    It can’t be a drawn out affair next time, the unionists are wanting plenty of warning, to create divisions and plant false flag stuff. Last time, ATM’s not working for pensioners, blackouts, ie, no electricity for large parts of the highlands for a few hours. It will be much worse indy#2. Words matter not, actions can be devastating. Stay alert.

  90. Macart says:


    There WILL be a referendum! :ENDS:

    There will be a referendum when the Scottish government have exhausted all means of coming to a consensual and amicable agreement as an ‘equal’ partner over the current constitutional and economic crisis.

    There WILL be a referendum if, as a partner, the Scottish government are frozen out of a negotiating position in said crisis.

    There WILL be a referendum if the Westminster parliament and the Conservative government place the economic interests and inalienable rights of the Scottish electorate under threat.

    Now given the track record of HMG in the past two years and the appalling behaviour of the UKs media toward Scotland’s electorate and our government?

    I’d say it’s a safe bet a goodly number of said electorate couldn’t give a shit what the policy wonks or their pet meeja urge.

    There WILL be a referendum when it is needed and not before.

    Mind you, that is the point of their repeated carping on the subject. They know one is needed. They know what they have done to the Scottish electorate is wrong on every conceivable level. They know that if the YES movement sticks together through this period that a bad day is coming for them and deservedly so.

    They know.

    Their job as they see it, is to tarnish the very concept of the democratic process. To make people sick of the word referendum. To make them detest the very sound of the word by constant repetition and negative reinforcement. Basically to make them afraid of the very thing that gives them power over both the political class and their media.

    Just so they know… we know. 🙂

  91. Ian Mackay says:

    Those headlines just scream ‘fear’, don’t they?

    And they are absolutely pathetic.

    Of course, if there wasn’t a big Brexit shaped hole in their arguments; if they had held up their promises on a No vote; and if The Vow had actually produced Devo Max – then there wouldn’t be a looming indyref2!

    That’s why they are scared, of course.

    An old Scottish proverb fits these worthless unionist charlatans well: Ye’re like the dogs o’ Dunragit, ye winna bark unless ye hae yir hinner end to the wa’.

  92. Stoker says:

    Regarding that message from Labour, as advertised in The National, (second from top)….“Invest in Scotland’s Future”?

    And that’s coming from the Party who’ve abstained from or voted against almost everything that would advance Scotland for the better.

    They’ve got more front than Seton Sands!

  93. Cuilean says:

    A proudbutt of Yoons.

  94. heedtracker says:

    Capella says:
    10 January, 2017 at 8:13 pm
    Was your search term for that graphic “broken record”?


    Pre ref 1, Ian Wood tells school kids to get into oil sector and a job for life.

    “My headline message for the youth of today – get involved. The North Sea oil industry will see you through your lifetime.
    “We’re undoubtedly the UK North Sea oil capital, but we mustn’t fool ourselves that because we’ve got critical mass in the North Sea, we will automatically graduate to become a major Eastern Hemisphere oil and gas capital.

    Ian Wood tells Scots that the oil will run out in a few years

    Sir Ian claimed there are about 15bn to 16.5bn barrels of recoverable oil left, and that the figure from the White Paper is 45% to 60% too high.

    You can flip flop around all day with the old bastard’s prediction, its why he’s so rich, great at predicting stuff

    ‘Move swiftly’ 11 November 2013
    The equivalent of 41 billion barrels of oil have already been produced from the UKCS, with estimates of production still to come varying from 12 to 24 billion barrels.”

    20 August 2014

    Sir Ian claimed there are about 15bn to 16.5bn barrels of recoverable oil left, and that the figure from the White Paper is 45% to 60% too high.

    So Ian’s got his estimates wrong/right by 9bn to 7.5 bn barrels but he’s flipped back again, to jobs for life, its all good, in the teamGB UKOK zone, where noone can touch yer stash.

  95. Croompenstein says:

    @heed have you got any Brasso for Prof Smirky’s brass neck…

    how high’s the water Mama, 29,000 feet and rising…

  96. Capella says:

    @ Heedtracker – they’ve been telling us the oil is running out since the 70s. It’s certainly been looted since the 70s and Sir Ian will have a nice stash somewhere “offshore”.

    Craig Murray has rerun his article on the stolen 6,000 sq mls of Scottish waters. The video is worth another watch as well.
    Infuriating actually.

  97. heedtracker says:

    Croompenstein says:
    10 January, 2017 at 8:45 pm
    @heed have you got any Brasso for Prof Smirky’s brass neck…

    Watch it, that’s my Slovene girlfriend. No idea what he means with that figure, 4000 tory votes to what 15,000 SNP last time.

    Anyway he’s going after Ruth’s job. There’s a lot of toryboys in Scotland who are very annoyed at her Remain rage/Leave love flipflop, too lightweight, routinely getting whupped at FMQ’s and she’s ended her career in tory England, monstering Bojo. Poor Ruth, poor us.

  98. Greannach says:


    Slight difficulties with NHS in England. Everyone knows a Scottish hour is much longer than an English one, so waiting times in Scotland are roughly 1000 times longer than in the Mother Country. It’s to do with metric. It’s General De Gaulle’s fault. Where’s Eleanor Bradford when the Empire needs her?

  99. heedtracker says:

    Capella says:
    10 January, 2017 at 8:55 pm
    @ Heedtracker –

    It has to be one of the UK greatest lies ever told, that the oil’s running out.

    Ian Wood’s back to oil jobs for life, its coming back everyone!

    I used to work for him, offshore contract wise. He’s cunning old bastard. His trick was to pay a wee bit more, so in a ferociously aggressive contractor market, he was able to deliver really high quality builds almost anywhere and always on time. High quality design engineer core, high quality skilled workforce getting better pay than anyone else.

    Reasons he’s freakin out now about lack of skilled workforce, he fed off all the old Clyde and Tyneside shipbuilders, through the 80’s and 90’s. Ofcourse none of these greedy bastards at the top of big oil put anything back into Scottish engineering schools, especially in Glasgow, so as all the old high skilled shipbuilders retired, there’s not enough skilled ones to go round now.

    Its a shortage that is emblematic of just how hard not Scots oil has been looted, massive short term profit, funneled over and away from Scotland. Guess which oil rich country did exact opposite, 200 hundred miles from Aberdeen? Its how big bucks and power reigns over us.

  100. Proud Cybernat says:

    Protecting the weans…

  101. Ruglonian says:

    message for all the Wingers that I’ve previously met up with – see my post on the Off Topic thread about a wee gathering this weekend

  102. Swiss Perspective says:

    Meanwhile, on the other channel, we are being told that Brexit means Brexit means Brexit means Brexit means Brexit means Brexit…

    Until May … I mean March, Scottish politics are on hold, by which point we might just possibly perhaps know what Brexit could under circumstances mean.

  103. HandandShrimp says:

    Ah those Yoons and their urges. 🙂

    They can’t stop talking about Independence – which helps keep it alive. One of life’s ironies.

  104. Andrew Mclean says:

    Bed blocking.

    A convenient statistic to shout SNP bad.

    I want to tell you why you can’t trust either the blue or red unionists, you see when they use statistics they ignore real people, real people’s life’s like my family’s.

    My father was a local government official, and an officer bearer in NALGO, a staunch labour man, and staunch unionist. My mother, a sister in the NHS all her working days, Labour supporting, her father my grandfather political activist and with a fierce independent and international looking mind, went to London to campaign for working rights, for a better world, he was gassed in the third battle of Yepres they call Passchendaele.
    Hardworking they built a home for us, so we would always have a roof over our heads, my dad should have retired early, but wanted as old people are want to do, work on, and get a little set aside to buy a good pension

    Classic one hundred percent good people, if you are reading this in the west of Scotland chances are my mother delivered someone you know, someone in your family. Labour people, but not ideological Labour, but in the blood, hart and soul working people.

    A few years ago my father was diagnosed with dementia with Parkinsonism, but he didn’t let it get him down, he trusted the Labour Party, and true to some extent the conservatives the only political parties he knew.

    During a spell at respite care he fell, it happens, no one to blame, that was August, he was in and out of hospital over the next few weeks in excruciating pain, till an X-ray confirmed a chipped bone in his hip.

    His condition worsened dramatically, and ended up in a secure ward so his medical needs could be met and his medication tailored to his condition. The staff we met on a daily basis, in heartbreaking times for me and my family was absolutely astonishing in their professional caring love.

    4 weeks before Christmas we were informed during his case review that it was not possible for him ever to return to the family he loved, the wife he adored, and the home he built with his own hands.

    We were then tasked with finding a care home that could handle his complex medical needs, my mother found this hard, but we were made aware that the clock was ticking, he was bed blocking you see.

    I will say no more about this, but this is my point.

    Who do you trust, ask yourself that, now you may not agree with my wish to see the SNP in power,
    That is your democratic right, but do you trust Labour who hid our country’s wealth, so thatcher could play her economic games that destroyed the traditional industrial heartland of my nation?

    Do you trust John Reid and his cronies who lied about the threat a third world country was to us, then with ultra right wing American industrial military bombing them into the Stone Age for what, it only backfired, and hasn’t it just.

    I love my father and it breaks my heart to know now how the Labour Party in Scotland has betrayed him, his hopes his dreams.

    Bed blocking, shame on Labour, a pox on them and their conservative lords.

  105. Fraser1886 says:

    I’m almost certain that once article 50 is triggered the EU will not be stifled by protocols to the UK. As such I will not be surprised if Nicola Sturgeons tour of European cities and those in power does not result in a statement from the EU that an Ind Scotland can remain in the EU. That will be the real game changer.

  106. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    NS and the SG are playing a blinder.

    IndyRef2 will happen when:

    ALL the SGs Soft Brexit options have been completely and publicly dismissed by Westminster

    When the reality of Brexit is being felt by the UK

    When the reality that Brexit Scotland is being sacrificed to prop up Brexit England is unable to be hidden by the MSM/BBC

    At that point it is a landslide for Yes regardless (all those who voted No in 2014 for reasons of short term personal financial interest will reverse their position for much the same reason).

    Keeping the powder dry until 2018/19 when the ramifications of the Brexit debacale will be obvious that the ordinary citizen has been shafted (it’ll be harder to hide than the Scotland Act 2016 betrayal of their Vow was).

  107. Bob MACK says:

    Nicola could put off another indy ref for five years and at the end of that time they would still be telling her not to have another.
    That is the basic fact. Regardless of time, be it years or decades or a generation, they do not feel another indy ref is in their interest. Too bad.

  108. Cadogan Enright says:

    Glamaig at 7:32 pm
    Channel 4 News complaints number 03450760191

  109. Corrado Mella says:

    Easy as pie, guys.

    Winning IndyRef1 cost the BritNats a humongous amount of capital: human, financial, political, clout.

    Meanwhile the SNP can count on 120’000 members, with all the capital it brings – see above.
    To this add many other non-members that support the SNP (51% of voting intentions, says a recent poll), and other non aligned Independence supporters, not forgetting the Scottish Greens that would have Indyref2 tomorrow.

    As soon as Indyref2 is called, there will be such a tsunami of activities from Yes2 that will drown each and every miserable attempt to a Project Fear 2.

    Eventually, the BritNats’ recurring obsession against Indyref2 is only an ongoing delaying tactic.

    They need a bit more time.

    Austerity first, exploiting Brexit now, is only a means to get to the lean, impoverished, low-wage economy Little England is destined to when we leave them behind.

    Maybe we only need to bribe them with a package of financial help to weather the shitstorm and they’ll stop shitting bricks.

    I know! What about a vow?


  110. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    As for a plural for Yoons.

    My suggestion is “A Last Stand of Yoons”.

    And I suggest it will be an Infamous Last Stand 🙂

  111. Effijy says:

    I think this easy!
    UK Media and Westminster Neo Liberals are all working together to try and stop Indy Ref 2, as they know they are very likely to lose it, and all the filthy lucre that is Scotland’s assets will be lost to them.

    If they had any degree of confidence that we couldn’t win, why on earth wouldn’t they encourage us to go for and potentially put it to bed for another20-25 years?

    Dugdale and Davidson are not even in touch with their brain let alone the Scottish people.
    Ruth meets greedy millionaires over canopies is her meeting the people, and The Dug repeats what she is told by her Westminster bosses is the will of the Scots.

    Neither Labour, Tory, or Liberal will ever have a Scottish Majority again, Independence is ours

  112. David Smith says:

    After reading Heedtracker’s account of Wood; how about…

    an Arsehole of Yoons..?

  113. Macca73 says:

    Tonight I was on the SNP’s Facebook page and there seems to be a new tactic appearing from the Yoons there who have joined the page just to get under peoples skin.

    It’s a “I voted Yes last time but now I don’t see the point” or “I voted for the SNP but wanted an Indyref sooner so I’ve lost faith in them”

    All total nonsense and when people ask them why they don’t respond.

    The rhetoric before was “We won, you lost get over it” but Brexit has them frightened to death that the argument for the union is lost.

    How long before the “If Scotland goes independent then they will be at the back of the queue for trade with the US” headlines??

    Right now they are firing warning shots across the bow but we’ve got to be ready and fight every argument with a measured and sensible answer. They have to be airtight because if there’s a gap they will exploit it and we know that from last time.

    Let Brexit kick in first … watch the money leave and business reduce. Let the sting kick in and then, when it’s all looking very gloomy, offer the alternative.

  114. mike d says:

    Exactly macca, anyone who voted yes will always be yes,this time,the next time,and the time after that. They are running scared. Smell the fear.

  115. Les Wilson says:

    Ref Ian Wood,
    he is another odious wee man who looks after his own interests. spouted the same in 2014. A die hard Yoon, but only if it serves him well, and it surely does. So he will be regularly wheeled out for media interviews, because they think he can influence us, again.

    Think again Ian, we saw and heard you last time, oil was on it’s way out we heard, yet big fields keep coming. A self centered wee creep. GTF.

  116. Someof these yoons on Facebook are so stupid that when you go into their personals they have left their photos of Rangers up

  117. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Fantastic to finally see this come to fruition @ Cadogan Enright says at 9:54 pm well done to you, Nana et al.

    However I’m a bit disappointed

    Nothing in Moray??

    Neither static nor mobile Billboards a massive missed opportunity to get folk questioning BBC bias in the notoriously Pro-Yoon, Pro Brexit folks there.

  118. heedtracker says:

    Its been just over a week since Donaldo Mackinnon took over as head of SNP bad BBC Scotland…

    Females of the yoons are more deadly than the last slob what got kicked up stairs.

  119. Les Wilson says:

    It is as if someone in Westminster has jitters, so they call the media for help. They NEED Scotland, they need us badly.
    But hey, they have a big problem, and they know it, WE do not need them.

  120. galamcennalath says:

    Is there some sort of ‘three line whip’ out on Tory MPs and MSPs telling even those who were pro EU and Remain to now say how wonderful Brexit will be?

    I can think of absolutely nothing which has happened since EURef which would make Brexit seem OK now. Nothing to cause genuine changes of mind / U turns.

    Were they lying then, or now?

  121. Smallaxe says:

    Andrew McLean:

    I am Andrew McLean

    Peace Always my Brother, My heart is in my words

  122. Chick McGregor says:

    The once secret self haters have been forced out of the closet and into the cold light of day but where they may only more clearly espy their own reflection.

    Some, when presented with such an image, may undergo catharsis and salvation (hopefuly enough of them to deliver normal levels of self government for Scotland) but for others, the self hate runs too deep, for them the madness will continue and in an ever more entrenched and dangerous form.

  123. Ken500 says:

    Ian Wood’s money is in a Trust. Most of it will go to Africa. Some of it has gone to Uni RGU. Built a Library, His family are hard working. They work in hospitality and serve meals. Some people have been served by them. They raise money for charity and have given profits away. A new car park is being built at ARI. £80Millions was offered to pedestrianise the City but refused. ACC has wasted £Millions on grotesque projects, the majority do not want. Against the public interest.

    By Unionists who are selling off the City on the stock exchange. That must be illegal.

  124. Joemcg says:

    Just watched that programme about sighthill in Glasgow. I’m shocked and disgusted at the deprivation and level of poverty. It was truly sickening. I got angrier and angrier with decades Westminster rule for allowing that to happen in a supposedly rich country. Absolutely disgraceful.

  125. louis.b.argyll says:

    If only it was…

    ‘Don’t mention the referendum..
    ..I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it.’

    That’s a bastardised, paraphrased
    quote from a well known comedy show,
    written long ago by an English
    public school boy, who may
    indeed still be funny..
    but is definitely an active zenophobe.

  126. galamcennalath says:

    Reporting Scotland’s audience has fallen from around 500000 in 2014 to less than 200000

    Looks like BBC are losing the propaganda battle! 🙂

  127. frogesque says:

    @Jockanese Wind Talker. 10.12

    Van or car with towbar, small trailer and two 8’*6′ sheets of 3/8 ply. Fit pitched on top of said trailer and voilà! One 2 sided mobile advertising bilboard just waiting for posters.

    Make sure your vehicle and trailer are road legal and insured just in case someone gets sniffy.

  128. Cadogan Enright says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker at 10:12 pm
    Fantastic to finally see this come to fruition @ Cadogan Enright says at 9:54 pm well done to you, Nana et al.

    Jockanese – See contact details at bottom of your link for folk wanting banners in Highlands

    Find a site and we will see what we can do

    And don’t give me the old ‘Moray is not in the Highland’s’ nonsense . Only folk in Moray believes that

  129. Les Wilson says:

    I caught the end of the BBC news tonight, just to see the weather forecast, it seems Northern areas of the United Kingdom are going to get cold!
    Only map of Scotland showed snow coming. So there you have it from the YoonKings of the BBC. Scotland? what is that, where is it…..

  130. heedtracker says:

    Ken500 says:
    10 January, 2017 at 10:24 pm
    Ian Wood’s money is in a Trust. Most of it will go to Africa.

    Its a lot of the where and why Scotland’s not got oil pension funds, like,


  131. James Nicoll says:

    If the Yoons don’t want a second referendum then we MUST have one!
    All this ‘urging’ is no more than Unionist bullying…something the Yoons are good at – that’s what they’ve done to Scotland for over 300 years now.
    The Yoons are fear’t.

  132. yesindyref2 says:

    @cadogan enright
    Great, look forward to it.

    For the static billboards I greatly prefer the new format, the question: “Is the BBC Misreporting Scotland?””

    That’s provocative, the original is an assertion. Questions stick.

    Any chance of one or two vans doing a week’s tour round Scotland, cheap stay in hostels? Some of them are on the main street like in Ullapool on Shore Street. Nice overnight parking off season! Portree park in the main square 6pm to 9am (or 8am I forget), Tobermory on the front, Gairloch try to get a manager’s special in the Gairloch Hotel, Pitlochry Backpackers, Aviemore find a main street park and walk back up to the hostel, Stornoway main street but stay in Heb Hostel, that sort of thing. 6 metres now on Calmac for the price of a car RET.

  133. Famous15 says:

    Archie Mc Pherson is talking about football!

    I was hoping he was going to join Rhea Wolfson (Labour JCC) and explain the words of Jeremy Corbyn. Even Mackay admitted he was confused. Nice Miss Rhea managed a SNP Baaad right out of no where. Kezia your silly tactics are contagious.

  134. Famous15 says:

    If you want a question for the billboard how about ” Will BBC ever stop misreporting Scotland?”

  135. Still Positive. says:

    joemcg @ 10.24

    I have taped the programme about Sighthill – will watch tomorrow.

    I taught in St. Roch’s Secondary for 5 years and the people are the salt of the earth.

    When the asylum seekers arrived in 2000, parents were handing in school uniforms out grown as well as toys and games.

    We had so much stuff the minister’s wife at the local church came and took it to their church hall which was used as a distribution centre.

    One of the best things to come out of that was the African mothers were plaiting and beading the local girls’ hair for half the price it was in the city centre. The girls would come in and ask if you liked their hair and said so-and-so’s mum did it.

  136. Cadogan Enright says:

    yesindyref at 10:55 pm
    @cadogan enright Great, look forward to it. Any chance of vans touring Scotland?

    They ARE touring Scotland and there are dozens of stop-off points for photo-ops every day all over Scotland like Pacific Quay at 8.30 on monday next to the Battle of Bannockburn visitor centre at. 10 am on weds 18th

    There is a prize for the best use of a photo of short vids of any of this on social media

    See details of routes and stop off point near you here

  137. Stoker says:

    Cadogan Enright on 10 January, 2017 at 9:54 pm:

    Great news, a big piece of celebratory cake coming right up.

    galamcennalath on 10 January, 2017 at 10:29 pm:

    You’ve just put the icing on the cake with that news, thank you!

    Finally, whilst i agree with yesindyref2′ theory of questions sticking i believe a far better version of the format would be; BBC MISREPORTING SCOTLAND?

  138. heedtracker says:

    Its tragic to watch the numbers roar upwards.

  139. Phronesis says:

    Bed blocking- it’s a bit like poverty –difficult to eradicate- it existed in the Scottish NHS even before the SNP government. Still, with the pocket money Scotland gets from WM and the constant leaching of Scotland’s wealth into shell accounts in Panama we can be sure it will still be with us. Despite that, Scotland is progressing with its integration plans for health and social care and SG is committed to keeping our health and social care services publically funded state services whilst trying to achieve the correct balance between universal and targeted services.

    ‘OBJECTIVE: To determine the perceptions of managers in Scottish NHS trusts concerning bed-blocking. To help determine the causes of bed-blocking and suggest possible solutions to the problem… The NHS secondary care-based respondents indicated that social services were responsible for 1406 bed-blocking patients in 35 trusts, an average of 40 patients per trust between August and September 1997. Some 600 of these “social services responsible” bed-blocking patients, an average of 21 patients per trust, were reported as awaiting comprehensive assessment by a social worker. In addition, 710 of these “social services responsible” bed-blocking patients, an average of 24 patients per trust, were awaiting funding authorization for a nursing home or residential home placement. NHS trusts were responsible for 237 bed-blocking patients, an average of seven patients per trust. In a further 202 cases bed-blocking was deemed to be neither the responsibility of the trust nor of social services as patients were awaiting vacancies in the patient’s or carer’s specific choice of residential or nursing home.

    CONCLUSION: Results from this study show that there would appear to be a significant number of blocked beds in NHS trust hospitals throughout Scotland. Trust staff, whilst acknowledging the complex nature of bed-blocking, perceive social services, who are responsible for the assessment, placement and financing of patients being transferred from hospitals to residential care in the community, as being responsible for the majority of these beds being blocked. It is, however, acknowledged that social services are under-funded and under-resourced. If the situation is to be improved, consideration should be given to changing service delivery processes in the context of the implementation of Designed to Care’

    Simpson, C. and Marnoch, G. Bed-blocking in the National Health Service in Scotland: a study of bed-blocking in Scottish National Health Service trusts; its nature and extent. Health Bull.(Edinb.) 57(2), 99-107. 1999.

    …Unlike the NHS in England that has been quietly privatised over 3 decades with The Health and Social Care Act 2012 passed to facilitate the process although it’s not clear that the public were availed of that fact. The Adam Smith Institute helpfully wrote up the plan for the public to understand the changes in its ‘Health of Nations’ report summed up in this last paragraph

    ‘We could meet the health needs of everyone without the need for the government itself to provide health services through the NHS, simply by requiring that all individuals have medical insurance cover for a range of services that are deemed to be the acceptable minimum standard of health care. Of course, those who wished to have a superior standard of service could take out a more extensive policy: there would be no objection to individuals insuring themselves for additional or more costly services, as long as the basic requirements were met.

    Although people are obliged to have a minimum level of medical insurance cover, they can shop around between insurers and decide which provides the best value for their premium money. Because there is competition, they can decide which insurer’s particular package of services is most suited to their individual needs, instead of having to accept the standard service provided by the NHS. In addition, they can spend more on their health care, if they judge it worthwhile, than is presently spent on their behalf by the government, so new resources will be brought into the health care system.

    Each individual would receive from the state a health voucher, equivalent in value to the average per caput sum that is presently spent on providing health care. The voucher can be used towards the purchase of private health insurance or exchanged for treatment within the public sector health system.

    The actual provision of health care services in such a system of universal private medical insurance would be undertaken by private sector doctors and hospitals, and the nationalized health sector in the shape of the National Health Service would lose its reason for existence’

    Pirie M, Butler E. The Health of Nations. Adam Smith Institute 1988

    Although it’s taking a bit longer than Mr Letwin wanted (it’s possible that he didn’t understand the challenges of complex multi morbidity and health inequalities) but not long now,

    “Mr Letwin met a gathering of construction industry representatives in his constituency of Dorset West on 14 May [2004]. During the meeting he urged the group of around six local businessmen to work together to win contracts for a new PFI hospital to be built in Dorchester.
    Mr Letwin then astonished his audience, however, by saying that within five years of a Conservative election victory “the NHS will not exist anymore”, according to one of those who were present.”
    The Shadow Chancellor said that the health service would instead be a “funding stream handing out money to pay people where they want to go for their healthcare”, according to a member of the audience.

  140. Cadogan Enright, well done, Sir.

  141. Clootie says:

    The 2nd Referendum starts when Nicola fires the starting pistol. I trust her leadership and vision.
    She will neither be talked into or out of a referendum.

    It is neither a game nor a gamble. It is the future of a nation and of the generations of Scots to come.

    We know for certain that the unionists will use every dirty trick in the book. They will bribe, threaten and frighten people once again to hold our nation…and if we lose due to getting the timing wrong it will be those Scots who need change the most who will suffer.

  142. heedtracker says:

    Great stuff from my personal vile separatist meeja nemesis. Planet toryboy will ruin us all but the cringers of their Scotland region will still kiss their butts and call it icecream.

  143. Clapper57 says:

    One minute they are saying there is no support in Scotland for a second Independence Referendum then they ask Nicola to rule out a second Independence Referendum.

    Why bother to ask Nicola to rule out something that they are so confident there is no support for in Scotland.

    This is what people should be asking / thinking.

    If , as unionist parties believe, it ain’t credible , probable or inevitable then why is all this same shit being constantly regurgitated.

    If they are so convinced that Scots still want to stay in UK then why would they be so against having a second referendum….after all they are so confident ‘NO’ would win again are they not.

    Me thinks they do protest to much……and me thinks me know why they do……as I am sure you all do too.

  144. Still Positive. says:

    The BBC online weather site says the wind for my postcode is approx 46mph yet when I look out of my window there is hardly a breeze.

    I remember a former colleague and I some years ago complaining about the BBC weather being wrong – mainly because we taught in adjoining classrooms which got most of the sun and they had forecast cloud which we would have welcomed.

    Neither of us, however, thought for a minute that it wasn’t just the weather which was totally wrong.

    I remember S5 pupils talking about doing an essay on the Arab Spring in June 2011 just before I retired and I said to them that it was the internet that triggered it.

    To my eternal shame, I said we were lucky to have the BBC. I believed it then because I had been brought up believing it.

    I do not now, having read ‘London Calling’ and seen the video. Incidentally, said colleague was a member of the SNP and he knew I voted for them.

  145. yesindyref2 says:

    @Cadogan Enright
    Yes, I’d already read the itineraries, great stuff.

    Like everybody given a good thing I was wanting more – I meant, what about the rest of Scotland? Campbeltown, Lochgilphead, Oban, Fort William, Portree, Uig, Torridon, Gairloch, Ullapool, Durness, Bettyhill, Lairg, Thurso, John O’Groats, Wick etc, – not to mention the islands!

    Any future hopeful plans for these?

  146. fletch49er says:

    Who’s talking about a referendum? What referendum? Oh that referendum! The one the Tories, Labour and MSM can’t stop yapping on about!

  147. Ghillie says:

    It’s very good of them to keep IndyRef2 to the forefront of all our minds = )

  148. K1 says:

    Some interesting developments anent Trump and Russia. Guardian’s carrying these fresh/not so fresh allegations against him, top story right now on their site. Seems like there may be some veracity as the ‘source’s’ credibility is being confirmed as ‘trustworthy’. Hmmm…

    *slowly reaches for the big bag of popcorn’

  149. BJ says:

    I’ve never seen Braveheart, didn’t fancy it but I am now watching Outlander.

    Why is this not on mainstream media? Maybe leave the natives restless!

  150. manandboy says:


    If someone’s house is broken into in your area three times a week, every week, the local population will be afraid all the time of being burgled.

    Constant Unionist headlines about Independence have the same effect on No voters. Voters who are kept afraid of Independence through constant headlines, will NEVER vote for it.

    That’s the strategy – just keep No Voters afraid of Independence, by going on, and on, and on, and on about it.

  151. Chick McGregor says:

    Still Positive

    Even though I had been an SNP junior party member since I turned 16 in 1967, I too still believed the BBC impartiality lie until I was a student in the 70s.

    I used to listen to the BBC World Service on my tranny in bed at night, simply because they put on good book reading serials like ‘Dracula’ etc.

    Anyway, one night listening to the BBC World news waiting for the next episode of whatever I had been listening to, I heard them say [paraphrasing] ‘The Home Secretary in a speech today said how he was glad to report that British goods were still regarded as being the best for quality in the World.’

    As it happened, I had heard his speech earlier in the day and what he actually said [paraphrasing again] was ‘It is a sad fact that British goods are no longer considered the best in the World. We lag behind Japan and several others in quality.’

    I still remember the shock I felt at the time. That was my eye-opener to the true nature of the BBC.

  152. Chick McGregor says:

    “Why is this not on mainstream media? Maybe leave the natives restless!”

    Because David Cameron personally asked the CEO of Sony not to sell it to MSM broadcasters in the UK.

  153. Dubai_Scot says:

    Peter A Bell….Historically the Scottish clique who ruled Scotland in 1707 were very anti Democracy, on a par with the American hysterical fear of Communism.

  154. Cactus says:

    ‘A Yokel of Yoons’

    Re the 10 October 2016 news headline above (The Telegraph)

    “..Scottish independence referendum and make the most of Brexit

    Haha, “make the most of Brexit” you say?
    Admitting the reality of the dire situation you find yourselves in, are we Auslan?
    Yeah, that really fills me with confidence, n-n-n-n-NOT.

  155. Cactus says:

    Also ~

    Good luck to Inform Scotland with the billboard / poster campaign. Think I’ll pop along to the Clydeside Expressway furra swatch, maybe see a few of you there, parking is available in Yorkhill and at the Museum of Transport.

    Just a thought.. the crowdfund covers the costs of materials and hire of billboard space / duration, so the big poster sheets are bought / owned by Inform Scotland?

    Therefore, I take it you can / will get the posters returned to you following the two-week campaign for re-use.. sure would look good held over the west side of the Clyde Arc bridge hehe.


  156. Ghillie says:

    A ‘Yokel of Yoons’ :), a yodelling tune to be played on a ukelalie!(sp?) = )

    Hey there Cactus!

    Agree! I did a double take over ‘make the most of Brexit’ too.


    Do they think folk will be fooled into accepting an utterly diabolical situation if they just keep telling us to stop making a fuss? Twits.

  157. scottieDog says:

    Great step towards reform from the bbc.
    David clementi, ex oxbridge, city investor becomes bbc chair.

  158. Ghillie says:


    LOL = )

    Can it get any worse? Sure, they’ll keep trying!

  159. Cactus says:

    Aweright Ghillie, aye, like going back to The Deliverance again for the dueling stringed instruments yodel, cheers to ye also Dan Huil.


  160. Craig P says:

    There is a saying that what you think about is what you get.

    The more unionists obsess over the referendum (rather than, say, trying to improve and promote the union) the more likely it becomes to happen…

  161. gus1940 says:

    Watching BBC Breakfast I am surprised (not) that there is no mention of the massive traffic disruption caused by the lorry overturning on the FRB overnight.

    If such an event happened south of the border it would surely have been mentioned.

    You can bet that if the bridge were to be closed again due to structural problems they would be shouting it from the rooftops like last year and blaming The SNP.

  162. gus1940 says:

    Sorry – they have just mentioned it.

  163. Davy says:

    The correct description is ” a Wank of Yoons “.

    As in look at that ‘bunch of Wankers’ when attending a labour conference.


    when passing the LibDem telephone conference box, someone may say ‘look at that pair of wanks’.


    if you’re a bull of some bovine description, you may be thinking ‘get that tory wanker off my back’.

  164. Nana says:

    This is the Tory way, hide the evidence

    Plummeting Pound Hits Families Wallets

    Theresa May ‘risking Northern Irish peace process to secure DUP’s Brexit votes’

  165. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    Thank you, Kettle’s on.

    Peace Always

  166. Nana says:

    Brexit report promoted by right-wing press condemned by economic experts

    Leak shows full extent of NHS winter crisis [in England]

    HSBC Planning To Shift 1,000 Jobs To Paris Because Of Brexit Confusion

  167. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe, a few more links for elevenses!

    Have the bbc covered this

    Deaf 6-year-old who escaped ISIS execution to be deported from Britain

    Brexit report promoted by right-wing press condemned by economic experts

  168. Fred says:

    @ Nana, thanks for the Arc of Prosperity link.

    @ Heedtracker, anent Jackie Bird questioning the value for money of the Baby Boxes. Just what value for money are we getting from this Jackie Burd?

    @ Andrew, anent John Reid, is that the Baron Cardowan by any chance? A stranger came up to me in Millerston & thought I was the said baron, mortified for weeks n couldnae pass a mirror.

  169. asklair says:

    The only people who can start #indyref2 is all of us. Lets do it.

  170. One_Scot says:

    Given that I have never met or seen Donald Trump, if someone told me that he actually didn’t exist, and that he is really just a character from the Simpsons movie, I could well believe that.

  171. Smallaxe says:


    Thanks, you’re spoiling us.

    Good Morning, Baron Fred 🙂
    Peace Always

  172. Macart says:


    Information overload Nana. 😀

    Great piece by Derek Bateman.

  173. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says

    HSBC Planning To Shift 1,000 Jobs To Paris Because Of Brexit Confusion

    “He revealed HSBC could begin moving staff and operations even before the two-year negotiation period triggered by Article 50 comes to an end. … other international banks are thinking “very quickly and very carefully” about deserting the City of London.”

    We know banks take risks but staying in an unstable and chaotic UK won’t be one of them!

    It’s probably not even about Brexit specifically any more, it’s about hanging on in a country where the government have lost control of events through incompetence.

    They will assess costs of relocation against risk of staying. They will start jumping ship sooner than later.

  174. winifred mccartney says:

    Andrew McLean could not agree more with all you say I am so angry with labour for all our parents brothers and sisters who have been lied to used so that foukes Darling and
    and co can sit in the lords and get jobs with banks and continue to steal from us I am broken hearted and unfortunately corbyn is no answer when push comes to shove he backs down eg. Trident

  175. heedtracker says:

    @ Heedtracker, anent Jackie Bird questioning the value for money of the Baby Boxes. Just what value for money are we getting from this Jackie Burd?

    Are you suggesting all new and exciting Donaldo MacKinnon is not winning back your BBC love, respect, trust n shit?

    Donaldo and chums for example really really hate, nae detest, baby boxes and quite right too, stoopid Scottish babies.

    It is creepy watching Pacific Quay liggers in action though. There used to be things like bonny Scottish baby competitions, with who’s the cutest Highland baby in the whole wide world kind of delights.

    Now all we get is a couple of sneering tory BBC liggers pouring their scorn and disdain all over everything, with all that BBC vote NO Scotland yer all shite grot. Changed days.

    Unless and ofcourse, its a royal baby.

  176. Nana says:


    Ach it’s like a menu Sam, choose what you want to read and save the rest for afters.

    By the way there’s more in off topic [smiley thingy here]

  177. heedtracker says:

    So what’s happening in Scotland today news wise, rancid The Graun?

    “Palaeontologists reveal 350m-year-old tropical Scotland bursting with life
    Research in the Scottish Borders has produced some amazing finds – and suggests that our view of the fossil record needs a rethink”

    The most important thing that Tiny and I may share however, is having five digits at the end of our limbs. If Tiny had this, she would be among the first animals who could play This Little Piggy.

    “There are two [animals with five digits] that we know for certain: Pederpes, and an isolated foot found by our project,” Professor Jenny Clack, Emeritus Professor at the University of Cambridge, explained the evolution of limbs and digits to me.”

  178. Robert Kerr says:

    @Chick McGregor

    My memory is fallible but there was a deal between the Tories and Sony to delay the release of outlander till after the referendum in exchange for UK legislation against music piracy on the internet which was hurting Sony especially.

    I cannot find this on the internet but even so the usual suspects have perversely described the release via Amazon Prime without stating that that is a subscriber internet service. NO BROADCASTS VIA TV CHANNELS PERMITTED EVEN NOW!

  179. heedtracker says:

    Well this is Scottish news, takes two Record liggers too. Why the HMRC decided to make public their tax fraud investigation that had nothing to do with this SNP bad target of they day, is my teamGB mystery of the day.

    Who’s next on their hit list though?

    SNP MP Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh no longer facing court action by the taxman
    The cases were related to the lawyer’s links to law firm Hamilton Burns which had been in dispute with HMRC.

    07:27, 11 JAN 2017

  180. Andrew McLean says:


    Jeremy Corbyn is a nice man, I am sure we would all get along swimmingly well with him, he knows sod all about politics in Scotland so has the sense to keep out, mostly.

    He also knows fine well Kezia is a lightweight, but again has the good sense to let the branch elect its own supervisor.

    But his politics are that of class war and union power, he is a 70’s man who never had to grow up, barracking from the sidelines is easy, but he is no leader, no statesman. what he says today, he will backtrack on tomorrow, he has no vision no plan no ideas.

    When the Conservatives are at their weakest, when the political interference in the English NHS is at its worst, what did he do, nothing, no demands daily for the head of Chunt, even when some are saying that performance targets are actually at 65% he says nothing, and why? Because as soon as he opens his mouth the state of the Welsh NHS will be flung back at him.

    So instead he falls back to class war, up the workers, strikes and more power for his trade union backers.

    The best thing is that Kezia is replaced by Anas Sarwar, the scarlet pimpernel, his sense of entitlement will fit in well, supporter of private schools, would rater be in Pakistan than vote on the bedroom tax, and is constantly asking “what can Scotland do for me”, not what can I do for Scotland.

    I notice he attacked the hardworking and dedicated NHS in Scotland again today, attacking doctors and nurses, so he can score a point. well Anas, there is a place where you are needed, go to Wales if you have answers, see if you can get them out of the pickle with their targets that your party has gotten them into. you are a Unionist aren’t you, begging for a seat on the lords, like the rest of the scroungers and back stabbers that make up your party.

    It is clear, the labour party Scottish club hut is singularly devoid of anything resembling a talented politician. I that I feel sorry for the men and women who dedicated lifetimes to the Labour cause in Scotland. but like the Dodo and the Titanic they did not survive the march of time.

  181. carjamtic says:

    Details of BoJo US Trade’ Talks’ emerging:

    Boris at NASA : “That’s not a neutrino in my pocket,Iv’e got a hadron”.

    Boris at Animal World Disney : “How do you titilate an ocelot ? You oscillate it tits,a lot”.

    Boris at Marvel Film Studios : “You won’t like me when I’m angry because I back up my rage with facts and documented sources,I’m a proper journo you know….Alex Salmond calls me…The Credible Hulk…at least I think that’s what he said”.


  182. Anagach says:

    Robert Kerr says:
    @Chick McGregor

    I think it was availablity – release to customers in USA was
    August 2014 but for UK;-

    Previous UK Premiere Dates
    Season 1 – Amazon Prime Video – 26th March 2015

    Some six months later.

  183. Luigi says:

    The loony yoons have been mad for some time, but I think they lost the plot completely when they started moaning about the baby boxes. I think this has sickened so many people. To see the BBC ignore so many big stories and atrocities, to focus on yet another ridiculous SNP BAD line was an eye opener for all but the hardest of yoons.

    Lesson No 1, yoons. Do not attack a popular policy.

    I mean, what kind of mean-spirited creep would complain about a baby box?

  184. JaceF says:

    Robert Kerr

    The Outlander veto was in the sony leaks:

  185. CamewronB Brodie says:

    “progress turns reason into submission to the facts of life” – Herbert Marcuse

    Do the Scottish themed corporate media provide evidence of their self-aware mindfulness, or of Scotland’s social-media-led evolution past a narrative of totalistic British nationalism?

  186. galamcennalath says:

    PMQs as reported by the Guardian …

    Chris Law, the SNP MP, says it has been six months since the EU referendum. The Scottish government is the only administration to have published a Brexit plan. Has Theresa May read it?

    May says she will set out more details of the government’s plans in a few weeks. The SNP wants to leave the UK, and therefore leave the EU, she says.

    May’s response seems very odd. Is she suggesting that somehow by staying in the UK, Scotland can stay in the EU? Someone needs to tell her they used that one in 2014.

    Or, is she saying the EU wouldn’t have iScotland? In her dreams! Or should than be nightmares?

  187. CameronB Brodie says:

    “progress turns reason into submission to the facts of life” – Herbert Marcuse

    Does this article suggest the Scottish themed corporate media is mindfully self-aware, or that they represent “ideological waste”, delivered straight to a newsagent near you?

  188. mike d says:

    Just as well Sean Morton isn’t an snp councillor or the misrepresenting ebc would be having a field day. They must be pulling their hair out.

  189. Phronesis says:

    The controversial Baby Box- up there with the angst about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights-the core values that are fundamental to a decent human life – a line of basic entitlement that the WM cabal are happy for most of the electorate to sink below. The money for the baby boxes would have been better spent on a new layer of paint on Trident missiles, frankly.

    At least some people like the Baby Box- even new Dads and the Finnish organisation who distribute them,

    “Nobody ever questions the value of the box, it is so important to our culture. Very occasionally we hear conversations about whether the government should be spending the money giving it to every single family, but not to include families of higher wealth or to introduce a means test for the box would make the whole system redundant. The box is outside of class or wealth”

  190. johnmc says:

    And then they decree her as “Weak” when she say there wont be one this year.

  191. James Barr Gardner says:

    A possible reason for the unionist attack on the SG Baby Boxes is that it has preempted their plans to cut off winter fuel payments to pensioners, as cash will be short supply in order to cope with the aftermath of the brexit feckup.

    When you think about it they are both connected to the first years and last years of life, but not if you are a bean counting unionist, because the beans are only for the westminster elite.

  192. Dr Jim says:

    For years I’ve waited for a knock on my door to be “urged” by Unionists not to support the SNP today will be the umpteenth year ( That’s a statistical measurement BTW)

    If the BBC and newspapers feel they should to run the country why don’t they stand for election (and everybody laughed)

  193. One_Scot says:

    The Baby Box initiative is merely a victim of unionists applying the Bain Principle.

  194. ed t head says:

    I can see the headline snp cause bridg to close transport minister must step down. And I think they must be trying to find a way of blaming the snp for nhs england surly they can find a story.

  195. Chick McGregor says:


    The main thing is surely not about the financial value of the box but the messages it conveys.

    It may help really bring home the responsibility of parenthood, especially to new parents.

    It may contain items parents might overlook just by not knowing about them.

    The baby book will also make sure that parents are aware of best practices.

    To say that the richer folk in society do not need reminding of their parental responsibilities or will already have thought and bought everything in the box themselves or do not need to be educated about currently understood best practices but poor people do, is just nonsense and incredibly elitist.

  196. Stu Mac says:

    @Macart says:

    One of the best reasons for viewing this site is Nana’s links. When you consider how much rubbish and unpleasant stuff (as well as good stuff) is out there it’s to her (assuming ‘her’ here) tremendous credit that she ploughs through it all to dig up the gems she posts here.

  197. HandandShrimp says:

    When I heard about the lorry on the Forth Road Bridge I was expecting a deranged Murdo Fraser on the radio demanding to know why the Minister had not been on hand personally to flag down lorries that might try and breach the wind warning.

    Instead all I got was Willie Rennie pretending he hasn’t thrown the EU under the bus to preserve his lovely Union Flag waistcoat and socks.

  198. Macart says:

    @Stu Mac

    Nana’s an absolute star.

  199. galamcennalath says:

    Interestingly, the EU has just awarded a €20.3m grant for further development of Scottish tidal power.

    Good news all round, but perhaps specifically in political terms. The EU still funding projects in Scotland. Perhaps “Brexit doesn’t mean Brexit” after all for Scotland.

  200. brewsed says:

    Sure enough Murdo Fraser pops up twitter moaning that had the QFC been open on time we wouldn’t have been suffering traffic chaos so it must be SNP bad that a daft lorry driver ignored the closed sign.

  201. Robert Kerr says:

    Thanks JaceF re wikileaks Sony.

    Confirmed my memory is not too bad for 70+.

    Anagach please don’t be an apologist for the Yoons. This series was deliberately suppressed by the WM Tories. But now the game has moved on.

    The Yesser cause can make much of that suppression.

  202. galamcennalath says:

    Murray has a go at May.

    Her response… … Mrs May accused Mr Murray of “downplaying” the opportunities Brexit could offer to the UK …

    Those mythical “opportunities” again. Aye, but opportunities for whom?

    Would that be the privilege of eating imported food currently considered unfit for human consumption by the EU?

    Sometimes it seems like the case for Brexit is a bit like the case for staying in the Union, there is little of substance beyond blood and soil nationalism. Which shouldn’t surprise because it’s the same people.

  203. K1 says:

    Murdo Fraser, The Queen’s fart, delivers the stench to Scotland’s people.

  204. ronnie anderson says:

    testing testing

  205. yesindyref2 says:

    I thought you were kidding about Murdo Fraser so I had a look. You weren’t. From transport scotland:

    “… however, the FRC Project remains on target for the contractual completion date of June 2017.”

    I saw this on Murdo’s timeline:

    “We’ve launched a new healthy lifestyle strategy, which sets out a long-term plan for reducing health inequality, where the NHS in Scotland performs much better than the NHS in England: Put the Scottish Government in charge of the NHS in England”.

    I might have made the last bit up.

  206. ronnie anderson says:

    Love watching Philippa Whiteford holding court on Scottish Health Service in HoC ? will the take on board her comments I doubt it.

  207. Andrew McLean says:

    brewsed says:
    Sure enough Murdo Fraser pops up twitter moaning that had the QFC been open on time

    this is my point

    Is this Fraser chap a politician, is he a MSP?

    twitter is for fools and idiots

    Ask Murdo Fraser if he demands the consortium pay liquidated and ascertained damages as he says the contract is late?

    for everyone else.

    Construction began in earnest in Autumn 2011 following the completion of a two-year procurement process that delivered significant savings on the scheme’s original expected cost.

    The three main contracts that make up the FRC project were awarded in the Spring and Summer of 2011, with all three successful bids coming in under budget.

    Lower than expected costs of these contracts means the total estimated cost range of delivering the FRC project is now £1.325 billion to £1.35 billion, a substantial reduction on the previous estimate of £1.7 billion to £2.3 billion.

    Two of the three main contracts are now complete, delivering early benefits to motorists and local communities in Fife, Edinburgh and West Lothian.

    The FRC project is expected to be delivered in May 2017.

    The FRC Project remains on target for the contractual completion date of June 2017.


  208. Bob MACK says:

    It appears Bank of England Governor Mark Cairney is being brought in to ease Brexit jitters. He states that the UK is in a more secure state than Europe to survive Brexit.

    This in a week where 4 of the major British banks are failing proper”stress” tests, and where more and more companies are talking about relocating to European HQS.

    Add to this the plummeting pound, and fears over what experts call the UK “Jenga” financial sector,you can see the hand of Mr Cairney trying to steady the ship.

  209. Andrew McLean says:

    Murdo MacKenzie Fraser is a Scottish politician and the former Deputy leader of the Scottish Conservative Party in the Scottish Parliament. He has been a Member of the Scottish Parliament for the Mid Scotland and Fife region since 2001

    So he sat in Holyrood all through the negotiations the votes the contracts, all through the closure due to structural defects!

    So he is either the most incompetent politician in the western hemisphere or a complete and utter liar.

    So the Conservative party now attack some of the largest contractors in the UK some in the world, really!


  210. Greannach says:

    Is Murdo Fraser a politician? I thought he was a gentlemen’s outfitter from the 1950s living in the Falkland Islands.

  211. yesindyref2 says:

    That comment from Murdo Fraser has to be one of his worst. The delay on the advanced schedule was because of high winds, not just before Christmas but for some time before.

    Would this disgusting creature have liked workers to continue working in high winds at the risk of their lives? Is he as inhuman as the Westminster Tories?

  212. Legerwood says:

    Baby boxes.

    All the fuss in Scotland yet a pilot project in two London hospitals was announced in April 2016 to general plaudits and little if any fanfare.

    If you read the article you will find that Finland presented the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge with a baby box!

    In October 2016 a pilot scheme was announced in Liverpool again without fanfare or the hysterical rants that have accompanied the pilot scheme in Scotland. Strangely in all the foaming, frothing hysterical ranting little if any mention was made of the fact that pilot schemes were already up and running in various parts of the UK.

    Worth pointing that out to people at every available opportunity.

    The baby box scheme is fast spreading world wide.

  213. Ronnie says:

    I saw a comment on the official Forth Road Bridge Facebook page blaming the SNP for today a debacle because “they took away the barriers when they got rid of the tolls”. Best bit of hysterical SNPbad I’ve seen for ages!

  214. schrodingers cat says:

    Indyref2 is coming, either in 2018 or, if Theresa May fails to press the article 50 button by May 2017 by even 4 weeks, then it could be in April 2019. My money is on September 2018.

    We need to win indyref2, no doubt about it, but then 18 months of independence negotiations with Westminster will follow, shortly after which there will be the first independent Holyrood election. It will be imperative that the unionists are locked out of government. A unionist coalition Holyrood government would seek to over turn the independence negotiations and perhaps even hold indyref3. We would effectively find ourselves in the same situation as the unionists did after indyref1. A nationalist majority is an absolute neccessity.

    During the 5 years of the first independent Holyrood session, the benefits of independence will start to be seen by the people. I do not believe the unionist mantra that we are too poor, based on westminster figures which attributes £3.5 bn in revenue from the whisky industry to England. Scotland is a very wealthy country and when this becomes known, I doubt the unionists will be available for comment, indeed I believe the unionist parties will accept the situation and rebrand themselves. At which point we can rest assured that the union will be over for good

    Things have changed since indyref1, the economics of an independent scotland will be fought over during the brexit negotiations and the likely damage to the UK economy that will bring. I also think the option of a GBP currency union will be dropped in favour of a scottish currency for the same reasons. However the issue of the EU will be the most important discussion point, mainly because it is the principal reason for holding indyref2. It might be an idea to point out here that 15% of No voters have moved to Yes since Indyref1 but at the same time 15% of Yes voters have moved to No leaving support or yes static at about 45%. The good news though is this shows that not all the voters are entrenched in their views, we simply need to convince the yes2no voters to back Yes in indyref2. Our position regarding the EU will be critical in doing this.

    The 2 main issues during the Euref were the free movement of people and the free movement of goods. The people who voted leave knew they were voting to take back control of their borders, this is something which is under the control of westminster, they can do this now, today, it requires no negotiations with anyone. However, the people who voted leave did not know what trading arrangments they were voting for, indeed they still dont. What trade deal the UK will have with the EU will be subject to negotiations and no one knows for certain what the results will be. Not even the Leave politicians who promised and assured the voters that the UK would get a good deal.

    Recently, Andrew Neil showed a clip of various Remain politicians (sturgeon, cameron, davidson etc) saying that a leave vote means leaving the single market. This was in response to The Leavers, like Boris Johnston, claiming we wouldnt, however, Andrew Neil ”forgot” to include Boris’s comments in the clip and then proceeded to claim the voters knew what they were voting or because they had been told by the remainers !!! Disengenious in the extreme but par for the course for the BBC.

    We need to be wary of getting caught in the same trap, we cannot state with complete confidence what an independent Scotland’s position in the EU will be, after indyref2, if it is known in advance that its position will be subject to subsequent negotiations. The present position seems to be for Scotland to salvage what it can from the wreckage of the UK EU membership. This will be a unique and bespoke deal for Scotland, unlike any other EU country, crafted from the remains of what was an already bespoke deal that the UK had. Unfortunately we know already that the EU will not concede to an independent scotland, all of the opt outs and the rebate the UK presently has.
    The 62% who voted remain, gave us the mandate to negotiate a status quo for Scotland, but that isnt on offer, the 62% did not vote for greater integration into the EU or indeed a different settlement. Nicola Sturgeon has no mandate to do that.
    It should be noted that any agreement, that an independent Scotland negotiates with the EU, will need to be ratified by all 27 eu members.
    To this end, I propose that for indyref2, we put forward a “holding pen” solution of EFTA/EEA ”Norway” type membership. The terms of this membership do not need to be negotiated, it isnt a bespoke deal, It is a known format shared by 3 countries already, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. (4 including the Swiss who are members of EFTA only). It would require a simple yes or no from the 4 EFTA countries and the 27 EU members, something which we might even get during the indyref2 campaign. No grey areas, no promises about the final results of Scottish EU negotiations that cant known or certain or be kept

    Why this option?

    It was put forward as a UK option by many of those in the leave campaign during the Euref. As such it will appeal to many Yes/leave voters since Scotland would no longer be a member of the EU

    It would also appeal to many No/leave voters such as the fishermen, under an EFTA/EEA arrangement, Scotland could cut a deal with Norway, excluding all EU fishing fleets and those in the rUK from Scottish and Norwiegen waters. This would be a very “green” proposal for our fishing grounds and very good for the scottish fishing fleet. And the Norwiegens.

    It would appeal to the No/remainers since it would ensure the free movement of people and continued unfettered access to the EU single market, an issue which will be discussed in detail during the brexit negotiations and the dangers to the economy of EU tarriff barriers highlighted and realised

    What about the Yes remainers? Presently the EU (guy verhofstadt) is looking at granting EU citizenship to those in the UK who want to retain it. So this EFTA/EEA position would fulfill all of the promises made by Nicola Sturgeon in the wake of the Brexit vote, it guards your EU citizenship, allows us to keep the ECHR protections, free movement of people and goods.

    We would still have to conform to EU rules, regulations and pay our dues but the biggest drawback would be that our 6 MEPs would have much less say or indeed a vote on future EU legislation. But is this such a very big compromise for very pro EU yessers to make ? Especially if it ensures a yes victory in indyref2. It is also a very similar option to the compromise put forward by Nicola only a few days ago

    As I said at the beginning of this article, the EFTA/EEA option was only a “holding pen” position for indyref2. It should be accompanied by the promise of an Euref2 in the second half of the next, and independent Holyrood session. Nicola has a mandate to enact this EU proposal and an EFTA/EEA agreement doesnt need confirmation by a vote in a referendum, The 62% who voted remain have by degrees already given her the mandate to do this. Euref2 will not require a leave option on the ballot paper for the same reasons. No, the Euref2 ballot paper only needs options for greater EU integration than the EFTA/EEA we will have by then. eg. a Swedish option, in the EU but not using the euro or full EU membership and in the Euro zone.

  215. galamcennalath says:

    Ronnie says:

    “they took away the barriers when they got rid of the tolls”.

    Aye, and at a time where they want Scotland to follow them over a cliff with Brexit.

    Then the Tories will do a deal with the Yanks to have all public services privately run. We can expect tolls on all our main roads.

    If it’s really dirty Brexit then as a third world impoverished country we might see ox drawn carts on the bridge yet!

    … or we can get out of this Union.

  216. sensibledave says:

    Phronesis 11:19 pm

    You wrote “Bed blocking- it’s a bit like poverty –difficult to eradicate- it existed in the Scottish NHS even before the SNP government.”

    I got involved in a deep discussion with an individual who acted as a consultant (management) to Health Care organisations (Public and Private) and he some interesting points of view on the subject of Bed Blocking.

    ALert: This is non partisan and non political!

    1. He made the point that the NHS is in the impossible position where, for all practical purposes, demand is unlimited. However, it attempts to satisfy the unlimited demand with a finite budget.

    2. An example of this is as follows. Any A & E department at a particular hospital that provides an exceptional service and somehow reduces “wait times” in A & E to below 4 hours – would be immediately innundated with A & E walk-in patients (diverting to them from other hospitals) if it became public knowledge that their waiting times were less than 4 hours. Then, because of the increase in numbers of patients diverting to them – their waiting times would be back to 4 hours and beyond – if you get my drift.

    3. We used to have convalescent homes. These were a half way house where someone no longer needed the high intensity care experienced in a hospital bed – but needed to be “watched” and maybe helped with the provision of meals, low level care and some medical monitoring. Some Private Hospitals now use “Patient Hotels”. These are normal, good quality, hotels very near to the hospital. A patient is moved to the Patient Hotel where they get their own comfortable room, with en suite, TV coffee making. The Hospital maybe takes 20/30 rooms at the hotel and provides a nurse on duty 24/7 at the Hotel with doctors doing “rounds” once a day. This reduces the overall costs per day considerably whilst freeing up valuable hospital beds and providing patients with a comfortable and safe convalescence.

    Attempts have been made to achieve similar results in the NHS. However, it requires a common sense approach to budget spend and allocation (i.e. once a patient is “discharged” from hospital, who (which budget holder/department pays their ongoing “care” costs?). NHS and Care costs are covered by two separate budgetary departments – whereby “hangs the problem”.

    4. Finally, “Bed Blocking” has been a predictable element for many hospitals for many years now. Many hospitals plan and budget on the basis of a given % of Bed Blocking by patients requiring lower levels of care (not needing “Consultant” time, lower nurse ratios, etc).

    If all their “Bed Blockers” left and were replaced by “sick” people – they wouldn’t have enough budget to pay for the additional staff that would be required!


    As you know, Sensibledave is rarely, if ever, shy about giving an opinion on almost any subject. However, I am ashamed to say that when it comes to the NHS – even I start to run short of easy answers.

  217. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Ronnie i did a post about diving boards & articulated lorries but it was knocked back as spam.

  218. Nana says:

    Piling the pressure on May

    SDLP backs British-Irish rule if Northern Ireland devolution fails

    Why bother…
    BBC Scotland news to launch weekly current affairs programme

  219. Dr Jim says:

    New flagship BBC Scotland news program for BBC2 to be aired at the same time as Eastenders with those well known presenters SNP document ripping Glen Campbell and the lovely I love the british empire Shereen Nanjiani

    Maybe we’ll have a Kevins Kibble slot, with graphs
    Followed by Tom Harris on how I won the referendum
    Or, On the stairheid with Magrit Curran how the SNP are failing the ordinary poor folk

    So what do we think folks, a couple of weeks? a month? surely not much longer than that
    But it does show that Donalda and the BBC really care about what Scotland thinks
    So much so they’re still going to try and tell us we’re thinking it wrong


  220. yesindyref2 says:

    @ronnie anderson
    Happens occasionally. Just click the “back” link, your posting should still be there, and enter the year in the box underneath which has 4.1 – change it to 2017 and Bob’s your uncle, BBC is your aunt.


  221. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Dr Jim.

    Re: the new BBC Scotland current affairs programme. It’s to be called “Timeline” so I went a-Googling and found an advance promo for it:-

    Looks like it could be exciting! I wonder if Billy Connolly will have a guest spot every week, playing the part of a bemused academic?

  222. ScottieDog says:

    @schrodingers cat

    I believe certainly that the SNP will adopt a new (probably) floating currency. This will Ben new territory and will give better together 2 more ammo.
    You are likely to hear things like..

    Piss take calling it the Scottish ‘groat’
    Zimbabwe/Weimar style hyperinflation
    Massive ‘borrowing’ costs due no one wanting the new currency
    Etc. (High interest rates)
    Currency devaluation

    They can all be answered but I expect the BBC to be on def(icate)con 5.

  223. bjsalba says:

    @galamcennalath 2:39

    We ain’t Brexited yet, we still pay in, we still are eligible. You can be sure that the SG will look to get everything we can from Brussels.

  224. yesindyref2 says:

    Forgot to say, postings appearing a lot quicker. Sometimes instantly.

    Had someone in the Herald a week or two back suggesting the “dubloon”. I think that’s a great idea, great tourist appeal, considering employment in tourism rose last year, and Scotland already gets a lot of diving tourism.

    Some enterprising company could set up Treaure hunts, with genuine spendable dubloons as the prize. I genuinely think it’s a great idea, but doubt it would ever be taken seriously by ScotGov.

  225. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    Piling the pressure on May

    Make no mistake: We are now in the final few years of Northern Ireland’s existence.

    Those who want to see a united Ireland are now the optimists. And we have all the best arguments to make.

    I don’t know enough about the situation to say what might happen.

    However, like in Scotland, Brexit has certainly changed the dynamics.

    Somehow, I get the feeling that the EU will look sympathetically on those who show they wish to stay. How far that might go in terms of financial offers and assistance it’s hard to say.

    It seems likely the EU will be dealing with bloody minded Little Englanders full of entitlement and exceptionalism! Simultaneously we Scots and the people of Ireland will be up against those same elements.

    I hold out hope that the EU will look after its friends and allies.

  226. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links for January 2013 now over on O/T.

  227. Gary45% says:

    “Murdo Fraser is the Queens Fart.”

  228. Breeks says:

    New BBC currents affairs program for Scotland…

    BBC Flatline I think it’s called. Exciting stuff eh?

  229. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    It does look exciting Breeks! I’m all a-quiver! Haven’t seen ‘Lethal Weapon’ for years but I have watched ‘Jurassic Park’ a number of times. And how can it fail with Gerard Butler?

  230. sassenach says:

    New BBC news prog – I’m very excited, in fact as excited as a very excited man who’s just done a very excited degree at the University of Excitedness.

    For gawd’s sake somebody haud me back…..

  231. schrodingers cat says:

    ScottieDog says:

    I believe certainly that the SNP will adopt a new (probably) floating currency. This will be new territory and will give better together 2 more ammo.

    true, although it wouldnt have mattered what option we went with in indyref1 we would have been slaughtered by the yoons regardless. the reason i would dismiss currency union this time is because the £ is in free fall,

  232. gus1940 says:

    I used to think that Murdo Fraser was one of the more reasonable Tory MSPs.

    However,over the last year or so he seems to have undergone tranformation into a raving extremist nut case.

    Obviously he has mislaid his marbles and I would suggest that a search for them should be instituted forthwith.

  233. Terry says:

    Just listened to maltas president talking tough over Brexit. Ya dancer. Malta has just started their 6 month presidency of the EU. The U.K. was due to be up next in July. However Malta could run with it for the year. And remember – Malta and Iceland were the only two countries who publicly supported Scottish independence.

    Now imagine Nicola announcing Indyref 2 with the Maltese president in charge? He he. Suck it up Senor borossa. Lol.

  234. yesindyref2 says:

    @schrodingers cat / @ScottieDog
    One of the problems launching a floating currency for Scotland could have been a short-term drop in value compared with the rUK (hence other currencies) – one of the reasons for pegging it.

    With the drop in the £, seems to me a floating currency could actually make money for a cleverly run SCB – Scottish Central Bank. Enough perhaps to double its initial reserves, as it needs to keep the value down.

    As usual, I’m probably talking a load of BBC.

  235. yesindyref2 says:

    I’m surprised at Murdo Fraser as well. He wanted an autonomous Conservative party, which would have been a very sensible idea. From wiki:

    The contest sparked intense debate within the party, with Murdo Fraser standing on a platform of disbanding the Scottish Conservatives in favour of establishing a wholly new, centre-right Scottish party, which would be autonomous but allied to the Conservative Party in England and Wales. This idea was rejected by his three opponents, however had support from over half of the MSP group. After a ballot using the Single transferable vote method to the party’s 8,500 Scottish members, Ruth Davidson defeated Fraser by a margin of 566 votes.

    What happened to him? I guess SNP hatred, taking over the Labour mantle. Well, look what that’s done for them.

  236. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Och shazbat!

    I posted a comment which SHOULD have appeared right after gus1940’s at 6.43pm. This delay that WordPress imposes renders the immediate ‘off-the-cuff’ remark totally out of context.

    Such is modern technology…

  237. Fred says:

    Murdo Fraser, a Shereen Nanjiani if ever there was wan!

  238. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Looks like WordPress has binned it. Can’t be @r$€d posting it again. Too late for context.

  239. woosie says:

    O/T but crucial!

    Just in, caught Trumph at a news conference refusing to take questions from CNN for fake news. Next reporter said “BBC”.

    Trumph’s response “BBC? That’s another beauty!”

    Come on Nicola, give him his award Back!

  240. yesindyref2 says:

    That, by the way, was a very exciting time in Scottish Politics. We had an overall SNP majority making a Referendum certain. And the Conservatives in Scotland looked like becoming the Scottish Conservatives in reality. That would have quite likely been followed by Labour and then the LibDems, all becoming autonomous.

    As it is none of them went for it, Labour sided with the Tories and declined steadily, though I think this may have had something to do with it and I make no apology for relinking to it, in fact maybe it should be social media’d again:

    One guy taking on the might of 100 Labour MPs from Westminster! That’s the Scotland I believe in, my hero.

    I’d love to see 100 Tory MPs coming up from Westminster for Indy Ref 2 and the same again with the Imperial Masters.

  241. Meg merrilees says:

    Re a new currency – I read an article during the Christmas period that apparently Qatar?/Dubai? airport was quoting an exchange rate for Scottish pounds that was more favourable than English pounds.

    Obviously ‘our’ Treasury was shocked but the perception is out there that we are a separate
    nation and, it would seem, a better bet than South Britain…

  242. Robert Peffers says:

    @Nana says: 11 January, 2017 at 5:09 pm:

    “BBC Scotland news to launch weekly current affairs programme

    A while back I posted that the new head of BBC Jockland’s statement that she was to have more licence fee money raised in Scotland spent making more programmes in Scotland. I then opined it probably meant she intended to step up the Westminster propaganda that we already get.

    Looking at who she has chosen to front the new BBC Jockland programme it seems I was right.

    Shereen Nanjani and Glen Campbell a more unionist leaning pair on total numpties you won’t find this side of the House of Lards or Buck House.

  243. Dr Jim says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon

    Billy probably still thinks there are still thousands of welders eating bacon rolls and reading the Daily Record as they trudge to work, poor soul

    Dreams of yesteryear when we aw ate Roobart efter stickin it in sugar and hud semolina and sago for yer school dinner and later that famous Jeely piece floating earthwords with the grateful happy cries of children on the ground getting jam today

    Those were the days eh, Rickets and Polio, Scarlet fever and Bronchitis

    But we did have freshly painted hospitals, the Labour party knew how to spend in those days
    No expense spared on paint, in case the Queen visited

  244. yesindyref2 says:

    @Meg merrilees
    Sadly no, it was the other way around.

    The bureau offers to buy the pound sterling for 4.31300 United Arab Emirates dirham but will buy the “Scottish pound” for just 4.30200 dirham.

    That’s if we believe the Herald.

  245. Hamish100 says:

    Shereen Nanjani and Campbell!!! jeez.

    For the former her current radio programme is full of her cronies or is it her producers cronies every week. The middle class unionsits spout how bad things are and can we stop talking about independence after raising it themselves.

    Housing scheme commentators would be a better balance than this tweed bunch. Can I be invited?

  246. Chick McGregor says:

    Donalda Whaur’s Yer Viewers

    I’ve no much time
    For STV or Sky
    For Channel 4 or Channel 5
    But it’s time tae wave the Beeb bye bye
    Donalda whaurs yer viewers?

    Let yer lees blaw high
    Let yer lees blaw low
    Through the streets
    Wi this sign I’ll go
    Yer cover’s blawn, the voters know
    Donalda whaur’s yer viewers.

  247. scottieDog says:

    @Schrodingers cat
    Main reason to have sovereign currency is fiscal freedom. The borrowing arrangements are v different without 100% owned central bank who are effectively buyer of last resort of govt debt.
    Bank of england already own one quarter of uk debt. This is why, even with ever increasing gov debt interest rates are very low

  248. K1 says:

    Chick, that should be on a billboard, brilliant! 🙂


    Thanks for that link around 1 a.m. ish Smallaxe, had to back track as I’d missed a few comments from before Nana’s links this morning…


    Cheers Gary45% 😉

  249. Terry says:

    @chick mcgregor

    “Donalda where’s yer viewers?’

    LOVE IT!

    Wouldn’t that be ace to sing when the billboard is at Pacific quay? -and elsewhere?

    I’m off to practise!!!

  250. England with the help of BBC/Media running down their NHS so that they can legitimise a sell of to the Tory party friends/donors and US backed lobbyists.

  251. Clydebuilt says:

    The Scottish Government’s consultation on its Draft Referendum bill closes tonight….. Get your responses in at

    Foreign observers
    Exit polls

    Charge cost of BBC’s biased journalism to the Unionist side

  252. Liz g says:

    Admittedly I have only a vague understanding of the N.Irish devolved structure,and only a little bit better of an understanding of the issues.

    But if it’s is true that the resignation of a deputy first minister may or may not cause an election,and/or this could somehow cause the Parliament to be closed making Westminster rule apply.
    Is anyone here able to explain how that would happen?

    Why the first minister ( or equivalent ) can’t just appoint a new depute?

    N.Ireland needs a stable system more than anywhere on these Islands I would have thought, and from what I’ve been reading this seems anything but?

  253. Liz g says:

    Clydebuilt @ 8.28
    RE… The consultation.
    I have asked that the referendum be legally binding.
    So we don’t have a repeat of the Supreme Court holding our results up….Or trying to!
    I did see it discussed last time (2014) if Westminster could stop the yes vote being implemented.

  254. Nana says:

    @Liz g

    Don’t know if this link is of any use for understanding the complexity surrounding the issue. There are a few highlighted links within the article which don’t seem to be working at the moment

  255. Brian Powell says:

    Liz G

    The FM in Northern Ireland can’t pick a new DFM. In fact Deputy FM is not quite correct.The arrangement was really co-FM, Sien Fein would need to put person in place but they are not going to do that, so the FM must step down. An election is the most likely outcome.

  256. Brian Powell says:

    Liz g

    The FM in NI can’t appoint a DFM, in factDM is not quite correct, they are intended to be co-FM. The FM will also need to stand down.

    McGuiness’s Party would need to put forward a new candidate and they are not going to do that, so an election is the most likely outcome.

  257. K1 says:

    I forgot all about ‘exit polls’ and ‘legally binding’…ffs…ah wis so busy praising them for their ‘transparency’ approach and the 100% checking rather than 20% that it didn’t even occur tae include these points, though I did say if there was someway that an individual or organisation could be held to account if they present themselves as ‘neutral’ players when a quick google would show there affiliations, I used the OBR as an example, presenting themselves as ‘respectable’ and ‘impartial’ when in fact they work for the ukgov, so ah suppose ah inadvertently raised the ‘bias’ issue.

    *Doh* 🙁

  258. ScottieDog says:

    I do see the attraction to a currency peg in terms of reassurance but it comes with its challenges too. If you maintain a peg to say the pound, the central bank is committed to exchanging scotpounds to uk pounds at the fixed rate (e.g 1-1) This means that they have to accrue currency reserves in the foreign currency you are pegged to.

    It can put a lot of pressure on the peg I feel lots of people are exchanging and also opens the door from the george soros types who speculate in order to try and break the peg (as soros successfully did when the UK pegged to the DM in the early 90s).

    When there is pressure on the currency peg, the scot gov has a few options..

    Put controls on capital movement (I’m a fan and this is what Iceland has done but it isn’t frowned upon certainly as part of the EU)
    Reduce demand in the economy (normally through austerity) so there are less purchases and hence foreign exchange going on. (I’m not a fan)
    Default on the peg and allow the currency to float (as the uk did (eventually after draining its foreign reserves) after mr soros’ stunt. (Denmark quite recently broke its kroner peg with the euro)

    With a currency float, the currency might devalue but yours and my nominal debt is the same I.e mortgage, personal loans in the domestic currency. If the govt imposes austerity to sustain the peg then folk suffer pay cuts, job losses and it’s a very different story..

    Anyway that’s my tuppence worth.

  259. brewsed says:

    I see on the news-where-you-are web site that Wullie what’s his name is saying “things are looking rosy”. Removing the tinted spectacles would perhaps help.

  260. heedtracker says:

    An urgle of yoons? on Scots high Street, under a Scotland in union flag, handing out NO more refs for you seaties leaflets.

    All new and exciting Donalda gives this her approval, and dont forget to piss all over they Norway oil fund basterts!

    Not Scots oil is finished and also, its a terrible terrible burden,

    “That’s while the ethical watchdogs who police Norway’s vast state oil fund have served warning that they’re going after industries which are the worst polluters.

    The fund owns around 2% of the world’s stock market valuation, and it is widely seen as providing a lead on ethical investments. So a fund sourced from oil and gas revenues and profits is now turning against those who burn the stuff irresponsibly.”

    Scotland in union flag probably isn’t a really a flag, to be fair.

  261. Breeks says:

    Hmm. I wonder if this fake news media business might be coming to a head.
    I caught a couple of minutes of Trump, and the BBC being another “beauty” is just the quip. Trump goes on to be scathing about the dishonest media, and how has seen people destroyed by it. Not a happy bunny.
    I don’t remember seeing any political personality express such obvious contempt for certain sections of the press.

    Back here in Scotland, considering all the other Better Together sandcastles which have been washed away by the tide, the case for Unionism now has all of its eggs in one basket; the BBC monopoly on broadcasting. When the President-elect of the USA holds the BBC in contempt, perhaps even the BBC has at last hung its coat on a shoogly peg.

    The USA holds the BBC in contempt, the whole of Europe holds the BBC in contempt, the Middle East also holds the BBC in contempt, and a great swathe of people in Scotland think likewise. With the UK mired in its self inflicted xenophobic Brexit crisis, a phenomenon itself stoked by the BBC and right wing press, then the position of the BBC looks increasingly untenable.

    That’s the BBC remember, state funded propagandists who answer to Westminster. Donald Trump, redneck showman that he is, strikes me as precisely the type of person who does bear a grudge. I’m not quite in the “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” camp just yet, but something tells me the lights will be burning late tonight at BBC HQ.

  262. ScottieDog says:

    Sorry predictive text issues in above post..
    “It can put a lot of pressure on the peg I feel lots of people are exchanging…”
    It can put a lot of pressure on the peg if lots of people are exchanging

    Put controls on capital movement (I’m a fan and this is what Iceland has done but it isn’t frowned upon certainly as part of the EU)”
    Put controls on capital movement (I’m a fan and this is what Iceland has done but it is frowned upon certainly as part of the EU)

  263. People Carrier says:

    I can’t see on BBC website anything about Trump’s anti-BBC comment. Did they relate it in the same way they highlighted CCN issue?

  264. People Carrier says:

    Apologies O/T – can’t seem to remember how to get to the O/T section……………yes I am that stupid!

    Can anyone furnish me with the link to the description of the UK (as submitted by the UK) to I think it was the United Nations? Can’t quite recall finer details and have looked through the postings to no avail. Be very grateful if someone could help.

  265. Liz g says:

    People Carrier @ 9.56
    For OT…Go up to the top of the page and look at the middle column….The one that says new readers.
    Follow the subject list in that column, almost all the way to. The bottom.
    You will get to a heading …Zany comic relief…..OT is the 7th option down.
    Sorry can’t help with links but someone who can will be along soon.

  266. heedtracker says:

    Breeks says:
    11 January, 2017 at 9:42 pm
    Hmm. I wonder if this fake news media business might be coming to a head.

    But look at how hard beeb creeps worked to get UKIP and Farage going? Farage just has to have a wee chat with the Trump circus and its all good.

    Tory BBC hated the EU and they long for it all to collapse, vindicating decades of shitty tory BBC EU stuff, just like what we get, low info, mis info, blatant lies. If it wasnt for tory BBC, Farage would not now be licking Trump’s butt, with 4 million UK sucka vote, and we would never have had that lunatic Coburn MEP reping Scotland for the last few years.

    Christ knows what they must think of us, mainland EU. BBC World Service tonight ecstatic over Bank Of England boss says EU now at much more economic risk from Brexit, than er, teamGB. Whereas for last 6 months, same BoE governor was a deluded fearmongering anti Britisher.

    Its the Heil and the Telegraph on telly and radio.

  267. Legerwood says:

    People Carrier says:
    11 January, 2017 at 9:53 pm
    “”I can’t see on BBC website anything about Trump’s anti-BBC comment. Did they relate it in the same way they highlighted CCN issue?””


  268. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Re. currency

    I’m not 100% up to date on this subject so please correct me if I’m wrong, but surely all this talk about a new Scottish currency sounds like the search for the Holy Grail. Something magical which will change our lives/economy.

    AFAIK we already use the Scottish Pound, the ones with all the nice bridges, castles, famous scots etc. You buy yer popcorn, petrol, grub and what not with them, they’re already in yer wallets and purses.

    Every single one of the Scot. pounds (SCP??) is covered by a UK GBP and deposited at the B.o.E in London.
    Approx. 4Bn pounds.

    So why not as a beginning, to get things up and running without too many start costs, transfer the 4Bn. to a new Central Bank of Scotland (+ anything extra from the Scot/rUK divorce) and then start before I-Day minting/printing the necessary notes and coins for future use. With say, 12 months as a transition time (if necessary..) before the new SCP comes into physical use.

    The C.B.o.S needs to prepare the economy, rule and regs, international IDs, IBAN etc. A floating Pound I would hope.

    What I’m saying is if someone asks “What currency will you be using?” all you need to say is – the Scot Pound – the one we’re already using.

    I’ve tried to keep it simple but in principle it could be a way. Any offers?

  269. People Carrier says:

    Liz g

    Many thanks, hiding in plain sight! More likely my lack of sight!

  270. ronnie anderson says:

    FFS Common Sense on Bbc2 how do these people function on a daily basis.

  271. Liz g says:

    Brian Powell @ 8.55
    Thanks for your comments Brian, I have been reading through Nana’s links as well.

    What a mess of a system,how bad must things have been for that to have been the best option.
    Twenty years the people have had that and as far as I can tell no move to change it,Infact there doesn’t seem any incentive too change it in that system,yet it so obviously will fail.
    The only question is over which issue.

    I remember a few weeks ago Joanne (I think) sayin that this heating scandal was a potential nightmare for N. Irish politics but I didn’t realise how fragile the system was.

    And I also had the impression that the electorate had moved on a bit in the past 20,but they’ve really had no chance to, with that shit show..
    It is an absolute shame,they deserve better than some rehashing of the Jim Crow Laws…. I hope they get it and soon.

  272. People Carrier says:

    Legerwood says:
    11 January, 2017 at 10:18 pm
    People Carrier says:
    11 January, 2017 at 9:53 pm
    “”I can’t see on BBC website anything about Trump’s anti-BBC comment. Did they relate it in the same way they highlighted CCN issue?””

    Now there’s a surprise!! Be good to get a clip of that part and stick it up all over the place!!

  273. Stoker says:

    Sean Morton, Labour politician, accused of child sex offences. He’s a “rising star” in the Labour ranks apparently. What is it with that Party and paedophiles? Sick! Sick! Sick!

  274. Gary45% says:

    Regarding Scottish pound notes,
    Some wingers may be unaware, you can go into the RBS and ask a teller for 1 pound notes, the atm’s can’t stock them but the counters do.
    I had trouble getting them in RBS in Princess Street, and the Eljin branch(no surprise there) last year, but every other branch I have been to stocks them.

  275. twathater says:

    Andrew McLean @ 9.46

    Andrew it must have been hard for you to share your situation with us,thank you for that , but unfortunately you are only elaborating the real sense of frustration, anger ,and disgust that the general public are feeling towards our supposed representatives .

    These self serving barstewards are not interested in bettering things for ordinary people no matter Scottish ,English or otherwise it is all about protecting THEIR place at the trough’

    We the Scottish people will soon have the ability to free ourselves from these MONSTERS , and if people are too stupid or deluded to realise the great opportunity we have of creating a better caring community for our children and grandchildren then hell slap it into them .

    All the unionist parties especially Labour have been running a massive con on the Scots , and they are running about like headless chickens now that they have been exposed for the lying,corrupt scum that they are . I make no bones about calling them SCUM because that is exactly what they are , there is not a socialist bone in their riven corpse of a body , they are a puss filled boil full of CRETINS which needs to be lanced

  276. Liz g says:

    Gary 45% @ 10.38
    Thanks for the information…You have just garenteed having some fun on my next trip to London.
    Wonder if we should add it to the Free Things To Do In London web site???

  277. Vambomarbeleye says:

    B&M do little fire logs for a pound. They burn for a considerable time and will kindle wood or coal.
    There are many outlets that sell nice rolls of soft absorbent paper. These make wiping your hinter region almost a delight.
    So there really is no necessity to purchase a news paper.

  278. Meg merrilees says:


    I read tonight that a man has been charged in Falkirk Sherriff Court with road rage and a whole host of other things including making ‘racist remarks’ because he told the english boyfriend of the woman driver that he couldn’t understand his accent.

    Not trying to belittle the terror the woman driver went through or justify the probably colourful language the accused used to address the english man just observing that there is now a recognised offence of racism when a scots person insults an english person…
    What’s sauce for the goose…

    I shall not hold my breath as I wait for corresponding offences of racism against Scots people to be clocked up in Magistrates’ courts in South Britain.

  279. Meg merrilees says:

    Yesindyref2 @ 7.34

    I stand corrected, thank you. Wasn’t sure i had remembered it correctly – obviously not.

    On a lighter note, I read that the Forth bridge is now open again after welders worked all afternoon to repair the damage caused by the rogue lorry. Nicola delighted – I’m sure it will be twisted back round against her tho…

  280. Cuilean says:

    An impugn of yoons.

  281. Donald dripping with sarcasm,

    “BBC News, it`s/that`s another beauty”

    cheered me up no end.

  282. Shug says:

    In light of a former mi6 employee’s involvement in the publication of the dodge dossier on mr trump’s activities in Russia I wonder what sort of reception mrs may will get in washington

    I hope you are on the case stu

  283. sorry,

    about 48 seconds in.

  284. Still Positive. says:

    Re: Forth Road Bridge closure.

    Just had a wee laugh on FB earlier with some of my friends who are also indy supporters.

    It’ll be SNP bad

    ME: Humza’s fault because the driver couldnae read.

    Will: There was a Labour poster above the warning sign and the driver didnae believe it.

    We are a great bunch. Never give up. I’ve believed in indy for 50 years this year.

    We WILL do this, hopefully before I’m 70.

  285. Andrew Mclean says:


    I posted not because my life situation is better or worse than anyone else’s, it’s just life, I know that, but to point out the dichotomy between rhetoric, political posturing and real life.

    That is what political reality is, politics or rather politicians have always fallen into two types, John F Kennedy said ” ask not what your country can do for you but rather what you can do for your country” in a political sense that is what should drive a political party and its politicians
    Now I listened tonight to a fuckng disgrace of a supposedly intelligent man posturing as the president elect of the United States of American, he sounds like a spoiled teenaged girl, no really he is a fuckng idiot.

    The other type is this,
    Read this,really read it, think of the words and the hope and the dream this is politics in the raw.

    Now listening to the budget proposals being debated in parliament, and this typifies the absolute disintegration of the Labour movement, a old drunk fool, still pisshed from decades of overindulgence spluttering out some incoherence, fell back in his chair and farted. His previous contributions were to justify his tribal heartland of sectarian segregation.

    Listen to Ruth Davidson the opposition leader elected on a platform to hold the government to account, she used another jurisdictions statistics to complain about the Scottish NHS, but this is not an isolated incident, today one of their top MSP,s did’t known the contract completion date for the biggest construction project in Scotland that he voted for!

    This is what is annoying me, the complete lack of competition for a SNP party that I support but needs a strong political environment to reach its political potential, because we all know, let’s not kid ourselves, some are far from perfect.

    And lastly the media, well that has collapsed in Scotland, the herald is a pale shadow, the Scotsman has all the gravitas of Father Jack, shouting ” feck the snp” at every turn.
    The BBC still an exemplar in other areas has had its political journalism debased by a right wing agenda to such an extent it is simply gutter journalism, red top sensationalism, lies and half truths given the professional gloss and regurgitated as fact.

    Tonight real reporters have disclosed that many of the worlds security services including the MI5 knew about trump being involved with prostitution and having urination games. And this, think about this, an old spy said ” you will come to the understanding that there exists two worlds, one of light and one of darkness, to control the world of light you must first control the dark”

    For too long we have been forced into a reaction to the force of darkness, where the agenda is shaped by those who inhabit the world of the night. But more and more people are realising that the lies and manipulation used against them is not to protect any imaginary feelings of Britishness but to protect the elite, in Scotland we have an underground political movement called better together, who are amassing large funds and organising, not to campaign in a political sense, but to undermine the democratic process, to stifle debate.

    In the days after the last referendum I said that the movement wasn’t finished, I said it had only just begun, every single day since has proven that assertion.

    We wish to build a better nation, for all Scotland regardless of race creed or skin tone, from wherever in the world you came from, where the first thing you ask is what can I do for my country not what can my country do for me, and the maybe we to could count ourselves free at last.

  286. Shug says:

    Gosh BBC news night having a go at trump supporters for not believing the CIA

    BBC taking the line the false story ok

    Yanks in power not going to like the obvious BBC/ us government/mi6 involvement in this

  287. Andrew Mclean says:

    Apologies for the grammar and spelling, but you catch my drift!

  288. Cadogan Enright says:

    Slightly off topic

    Important meeting coming up meeting folk from oook about Brexit

  289. Liz g says:

    Andrew McLean @ 11.42
    We hear you man….But more than that we agree with you.
    And I think there are enough of us.
    Certainly enough who are never going to stop pointing out that this loyalty that they Cling to is fake.

    It’s always been fake,Queen ,God, Westminster, Britain,all of it is a construct to keep the wealth in a few hands.
    Our lot up here have some of the same ,who are just wanting the same set up with them in charge to be sure,and will need to be held in check.

    I and I suspect you are not in this for a mini me Westminster.
    There’s plenty to be said about that after Indy certainly but!
    This what it all comes down to…
    first…Which Parliament will work better for us?
    Secondly…Is it of a size that can be controlled democratically?

    There’s no “Loyalty” involved!!! Just us making choices in our interests…A vote really….and, it’s time to get the people who want to run things to learn how to earn it,cause appealing to loyalty isn’t going to work anymore.

    Isn’t it sicking to watch people trying to manufacture respect, respect for Trump…. Because of the position he holds…
    That’s Loyalty right there..That’s what it actually does…Crown’s a fool,and not for the first time…But maybe the first time on prime time,and, hopefully that’s the difference.
    My country right or wrong…Well pal yir Country’s Wrong.

  290. Hamish100 says:

    So the BBC knew about Trump allegations but kept their mouths shut.

    State broadcaster influenced by British State and right wing press.

    SNP fault…

  291. Liz g says:

    Hamish 100 @ 12.36
    To be honest.. This time I don’t blame the BBC…(I know I couldn’t believe I said that either)..Mainly because of the threat America poses to other nations.

    The only way that kind of information could be released (and I am glad of it for all sorts of reasons) is on line.

    The only real check on Trump at the moment is, again the, net.
    Which part of the MSM can really go toe to toe with the American President to any serious degree anymore.
    I am afraid that is all we have (the global reach of the net) at this point in time.

    And unless and until the Americans themselves wake up to the fact that this is where their form of Devo Max can lead, it’s no shame IMHO to be cautious about someone so unstable.

    Only the Americans can fix this, I would prefer they don’t use another Nation to do it.

  292. Alan Mackintosh says:

    People carrier, heres the link to the UN declaration of the UK’s status

    Graf Midgehunter, re using Scot pound notes. I watched a live feed interview with Yanis Varoufakis who said the very same thing when he was asked about currency for an iScot. I think it was on Independence Live

  293. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Graf, I think it was this one,

  294. manandboy says:

    Liz g says:
    “It’s always been fake, Queen, God, Westminster, Britain, all of it is a construct to keep the wealth in a few hands”.

    Well…. three out of four isn’t too bad.

  295. yesindyref2 says:

    Got a bit bugged on Craig Murray’s site by comments claiming it’s very small or non-existent so here’s a flaming map showing the 6,000 stolen square miles.

    It’s the big area between the purple existing line and the gree proposed line.

  296. Liz g says:

    Manandboy @ 2.18
    Ok.. Thanks for the reminder…
    Otherwise I would have our Robert Peffers on my tail.

    Britain is really real.
    But… Only as an island..Aye.
    Not as a Nation??

    And I am thanking you seriously, by the way.
    It’s this mistaken way of speaking that play’s it’s part in our fellow Scot’s not wondering how things got this way.

    But 3-out of 4 is actually I would argue ….Better than… isn’t to bad!!!!
    Just ask Meat Loaf…A big fan of 2- out of 3- not being bad

  297. yesindyref2 says:

    I need to get a life. Here’s a better one:

  298. Brian McHugh says:

    The Mainstream Media are like a box of chocolates…
    …almost empty of ideas and completely devoid of variety.

  299. Meg merrilees says:

    Alan Mackintosh @1.23 am

    Interesting link I especially liked the latter part of this document where it explains the official definition of the differences in terminology of Great Britain, the United Kingdom and the terms British:

    e.g.the term British citizen is the official correct term for a citizen of the United Kingdom and is frequently inclusive of N Ireland. It is only the one specific term ‘Great Britain’ which invariably excludes N Ireland – tough if you’re an Olympic athlete in Team GB!

    the UK is a constitutional monarchy consisting of 4 constituent parts – two countries England and Scotland, one Principality – Wales and one Province- N Ireland

    NB the term “Great” is not a self styled indicator of ‘greatness’ but derives from the French term Grande Bretagne – large Brittany used since mediaeval times as distinct from Brittany.

    Fascinating to read the official line n all of this. Wonder how many British people don’t know these basic facts!

  300. yesindyref2 says:

    The Trump “BBC news. That’s another beauty” actually on the BBC transcript they got from the Federal News Service:

  301. yesindyref2 says:

    To correct some misinformation going around:

    Murdo Fraser: “More seriously, it is now almost universally accepted that we will need a new Forth crossing . . .

  302. Meg merrilees says:


    Perusing Scottish newspapers this morning, we are told by the Scottish Daily Heil that although the Health Secretary has said that the NHS in Scotland is performing better than ‘down south’, NHS staff have told them that the situation in Scotland is ‘ the same’ as that in England… REALLY?

  303. Nana says:

    As a junior doctor, I see that the Government is covering up a crisis in the NHS

    How the Irish language drove a wedge between Northern Ireland’s Assembly

    Sterling nears post-EU referendum low as trade deficit widens

  304. Andrew Mclean says:


    Yes he debated it in parliament for years and was one of the conservatives who voted for it. And that compounded his lies, to be part of the decision to spend hundreds of millions of taxpayers money on a project, then to be blissfully, or at worse claim to be unaware of when the project was due to complete is either shocking financial mismanagement of a dammed lie against large multinational companies who have completed major engineering projects worldwide, thus damaging their reputation.

    If this is the caliber of the Scottish Conservatives, bull riding, attention seeking incompetents, then that explains the readership of their newspaper the Scotsman, ignorance personified.

  305. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    Thank you, Kettle’s on, Peace Always

  306. Andrew Mclean says:

    Red and blue Torys Kezia and Ruth and all their cabals, are who Burns cautioned us about, they have always been with us, self serving, inbred clique of pretend Scots. You know who and what they are, the stupid names they call themselves, their arrogance and sence of worth, demanding respect when clearly none is due.

    Burns said

    “Sic a parcel or rogue’s in a nation”

    they inhabit a strange paradox, not a physical place, but a pretentious class, breeding ground of Scottish conservatives, like the king,s of them all, tam dalyell, darling and reid, has now given birth to political abominations like JK, her sense of Scottishness a corruption of our nation and its national identity, where to be subservient to another nations will is seen to be a honest ambition, where embarrassment of their own identity makes them another’s fool, another’s tart.

    And that exactly explains why Ruth would ride a bull.

  307. Nana says:

    @Smallaxe Good morning, Brr its cold but thankfully no snow here so far.

    Visit the canary for a lot of good articles

    Carney Falling into line
    Europe more at risk from hard financial Brexit than UK, says Mark Carney

    Japan seeks closer ties with Ireland after Brexi

  308. scottieDog says:

    I see mr hammond is as corrupt as the next tory..

  309. Contrary says:

    On the currency issue, I know there are complex market things to do with pegging and floating which I know nothing about, but I investigated how the value of currency is determined after a confused chat with a friend (still gold standard?).

    Maybe folks here already know this, but I suspect the basics are not realised by the the larger population. The value of currency in the uk, and in most countries, is based on fiat currency which means the value is based on ‘future taxes’. So if you are an issuer of currency, you need a healthy working population and lots of businesses paying fat taxes and your currency value is healthy (within the country).

    Reading about fiat currency lead to reading about modern monetary theory, which is very interesting – it says austerity is probably the worst thing you can impose, when using fiat currency, to try and solve any financial crises, it has the opposite effect in fact. It also suggests that most countries are not running their economies properly.

    The US introduced fiat system way back in Nixon’s time, dropping the gold standard because it was too unstable, but economists are still using theories from that era. You would have thought they’d have got the hang of it by now.

    So surely as long as the Scottish government is in charge of collecting taxes & issuing currency, which our banks already do, the rest of the questions seems to be niceties & economic policy?

    It would be nice to see a clean sweep simplifying the whole thing, along with the tax system. The complexities seem to be wholly designed for allowing those with money to duck & dive & dodge fair play. I get a bit angry at how badly run the UK is.

    On another note, on GMS earlier, interviewing Jackson Carlaw (?) on culture & the arts – he said we need studios etc in Scotland and that, in fact, the Scottish government was supportive of the proposals – which I thought positive – but the interviewer, a BBC employee, kept saying ‘but,,,’ and arguing against his points – eh? Why would you argue against promoting your own industry and expanding it?? More work, more choice, more pay, nononono, don’t want any of that.

  310. Ken500 says:

    Murdo Fraser constantly complaining about the Tories taxing Scotland higher than the rest of the UK. Hypocrite.

    The state of the NHS in England/Wales is a total disgrace. Unbelievable.

    The Tories want to recruit more Doctors from Europe. Total hypocrites.

    Independence will come to Scotland soon. It will be something unexpected. Like the fuel scandal in NI. Folk will have had enough of Westminster corruption. The ‘spies’ are on the run.

  311. Ken500 says:

    Hammond is spending £500Billion on Trident, HS2, Hinkley Point and Heathrow. A total waste of public money, They will be redundant before they are finished. No business case. The Tories are cutting funding for the NHS and Education. Cutting NHS funding £20Billion over five years. Westminster Unionists caused the migration into Europe. Illegal wars. Insteading of taking responsibility, Brexit will destabilise the world economy,

  312. galamcennalath says:

    Ken500 says:

    Independence will come to Scotland soon. It will be something unexpected

    I’ve often thought that. Something will come out of the blue and get right up most Scots’ noses.

    And now it is likely to happen when we will have an IndyRef2 bill in place and a pro Indy majority in Parliament.

    All eyes are on Brexit, and if it’s hard it may be the trigger. We just hope the reality is enough to ‘get up the noses’ of enough people. However something else totally unexpected could crop up concurrently.

  313. One_Scot says:

    ‘Major civic organisations snub invitation to consult on draft referendum bill’– from The National.

    Read the article and ask, is the use of the word ‘snub’ appropriate. Also take into account the photograph of Nicola Sturgeon they have used. It’s hardly the most positive and upbeat picture of her.

    I honestly believe the The National will kick us in the balls again come IndyRef2.

  314. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    For a constitutional expert, the author seems blissfully unaware that what he describes as British/UK is actually English. As always reference is made to the 1688 Bill of Rights, which of course does not apply to Scotland.

    Talk of a new written ‘British Constitution’, like Federalism, worries me because what they almost certainly have in mind is to abandon Scottish constitutional traditions and force English ones on the whole UK in a new written form.

    The author should have a wee read of some of the submissions to the Supreme Court recently, for enlightenment.

  315. Dr Jim says:

    Mark Carney comes to Scotland and says Independence would work fine for Scotland the BOE would just make adjustments and it’s really a political decision for the people of Scotland

    David Cameron says Independence for Scotland is Baad and Mark Carney says Independence for Scotland is definitely Baad

    Mark Carney says Brexit is Baad theresa May says Brexit is good Mark Carney says Brexit is definitely good

    Noo, ah don’t know Mark Carney bit diz he no jist sound like a yes man for whoever’s in charge at the time
    When I was at school we’d have called him a wee clipey shite and naeb’dy woulda played wae him

  316. Fred says:

    @ Meg, Northern Ireland is not a province, it’s part of the province of Ulster & a shambles right now!

  317. Breeks says:

    I agree Ken500, but I’m not sure Brexit will destabilise the global economy. While Theresa May twiddles her thumbs and dithers, I think the wise heads in global investment will be using the same time productively, and positioning themselves to cope with Britains,… altered status, at the canter.
    Paradoxically, it is even possible that’s a factor in why the UK Brexit economy hasn’t totally bombed as first predicted, perhaps it’s been shored up artificially while markets react to Brexit and strategic contingencies are drawn up, and industries and companies manoeuvre themselves to be ready for Brexit when it actually happens.

    The real test for Brexit buoyancy will only begin once Brexit actually happens, and business reacts in earnest, but reacts to the mid and long term implications, not short term readjustments.

    Don’t forget, with the pound collapsing against other currencies, there is a temporary boost to exports which looks great until its counterbalanced by the hike in cost of imports, but in the short term, it’s a happy period for exports, but there remain big storm clouds on the horizon.

    As for all the upbeat news stories about the resilience of the UK economy, for some reason I call to mind the band playing upbeat music on the deck of the Titanic.

    And just to be clear, I don’t look forward to what’s coming. Even, god willing we can keep Scotland safe from it all, what remnants of the UK is in trouble, and for all the spiv politicians, greedy parasites and arrogant cretins, there are a lot of good and decent people who are in for a tough time.

    If I had one wish from a genie in a magic lamp, it would be for Scotland to be free and already secure in Europe with our constitutional sovereignty in the bag, because then, with our feet secure on solid ground we could afford ourselves the luxury of trying to help a friend fighting against a rising tide but who doesn’t yet see the peril they are in.

  318. Dr Jim says:

    The Common Weal have chosen at this time not to participate in the Independence consultation

    Oooh well that’s got me really worried because all the cooncil TV viewers will take that right on board, let’s face it they’ve all heard of the Common Weal, ahem! snappy title and all

    Ask the same viewers who Comrade Harvie is or even Kezia Dudgale (yes I spelled that right) most of them never heard of them either
    They wouldn’t even know a Murdo Fraser if you threw him out a window with a fridge on his head

    These are the folk who vote from memory and Daily Express Jackie Burd headlines, so not to worry

  319. galamcennalath says:

    Meg merrilees says:

    Wonder how many British people don’t know these basic facts!

    Many South British, in particular, are quite clear in what they believe.

    England/United Kingdom/Great Britain/Britain are all completely interchangeable and synonymous.

    English/British are synonymous.

    There is no Union. England took over and absorbed all her neighbours.

    The Union Flag is the national flag of England.

    Geographically, England is the big island lying off Western Europe.

    Scotland is a northern region of England.

    Scots are really English but because they don’t always accept that, they make themselves second class citizens.

    Aye, right! Dream on! 🙂

  320. Brian Powell says:


    Mark Carney and the UK Brexiters operating on the belief that the EU and EU countries are just sitting, trembling, wondering what the UK is going to do. In fact the EU countries have become successful because they are proactive. (Examples, because of it’s history of flooding, Netherlands now world experts and exporters in water management industry.) Czech Republic ‘tendering’ for car industry with Brexit because of the ultramodern manufacturing facilities it has. Now Japanese companies looking to Ireland as an alternative to the UK.)

    UK operates on complacency and bullying.

    The EU also said it would try to make a smooth transition to UK exit, but the four principles can’t be compromised.

  321. Capella says:

    The National says that Bella Caledonia is to carry on with Mike Small as editor. I think that is the third time he has threatened to resign, close the site, then changed his mind.

    Pity, I was hoping Craig Murray would be editor. But it is, apparently, to be restructured as a media collective. We certainly do need an alt media site. So I look forward to that.

  322. nodrog says:

    Love this article it indicates the level of paranoia I witnessed in the USA. Someone sent white powder to a senator and the next day you could not buy duct tape for love nor money.
    Off subject – Stuart – check the article on BBC website about man made lagoons in England & Wales. Scotland not mentioned. We have natural “lagoons” (Sea Lochs) that could easily be harnessed.
    Could it be an Establishment strategy to make sure England & Wales do not need Scotland to keep the lights on? I have written to the National on this as the printed a letter from me a year ago on the same subject.

  323. Dr Jim says:


    Pentland firth nod we’re already on it

  324. Dr Jim says:

    Mike Small would do better asking himself why contributions stopped coming after the last elections and stop chiding everybody else for not agreeing with his editorials

    Wee bit Laboury sounding blaming the readers after the way things turned out

  325. gus1940 says:

    nodrog @10.26

    Just look at Loch Fyne on an OS map and try to figure out how many billions of tons of water enters and leaves twice every day and imagine it passing through turbines set in a barrage (with a road on top as a bonus.

    That one alone would be capable of satisfying a high % of Scotland’s energy needs.

    And that’s only one of our many sea lochs.

  326. nodrog says:

    @Dr Jim

    Agreed Dr Jim but look at the money and jobs they are talking about spending on man made lagoons, a lot of it our money. a fraction of that on our big narrow mouthed sea lochs would be far more economical and not as difficult an environment as The Pentland Firth. Hope you agree.

  327. gus1940 says:

    Re yesterday’s lorry incident on the FRB:_

    Given that the lorry was travelling on the windward side of the bridge and was blown across to the leeward side leads one to speculate as to what would have happened if it had been driving, most probably on the inside lane, on the leeward side – there must be a fair chance that it would have gone over the side and down into the Forth.

  328. nodrog says:


    Exactly Gus. If the National print my letter and the one the prominently displayed from me last year you will see how much in agreement we are.

  329. K1 says:

    Someone earlier either in this thread or last one mentioned talking to their friends who were ah think No voters and said that some of their reasoning for voting No was based on the notion that the SNP ‘would not’ be in charge in an independent Scotland?

    They felt that we ‘could’ or ‘would’ end up as some sort of left wing ‘commie’ type state and that is why they didn’t want independence. The writer also stated that they themselves hadn’t considered that angle?

    It’s been on my mind the last few days and it occurred to me on reflection, why would Scotland after independence ‘suddenly’ start voting in giant swathes for ‘very’ left/right wing governments?

    If you look at the way we as a polity have voted for the past 40 years there has never been a swell in the numbers of those parties who were well to the left of the centre? Even the past couple of years with RISE there was not the ‘predicted’ (in the mirrors of their own mind’s) in any significant way, breakthrough on to the political map in Scotland during the GE ’15 nor the Scottish elections last year.

    I know we need effective opposition right and left, part of the reason we don’t have either is because the SNP is effective in covering a lot of ground on policy that in effect ‘holds’ the ‘centre’ within Scotland. Therefore it is strongly likely that we will always strongly maintain this centre. It’s highly and nigh impossible to imagine such a progressive polity as Scotland suddenly reversing this state of affairs in the near or distant future imv.

    Becoming independent isn’t going to alter our basic value system. independence isn’t some ‘trigger’ wherein there begins a race to change our entire culture and outlook that before independence was somehow a/the ’cause’ of our want/need of independence? The need for independence is based upon a simple premise, that we as a country are best served by those we elect to run our country. I see no evidence to support your friend’s fears of what lies ahead in this regard.

    Sometimes ah think people just look for reasons no matter how convoluted to support their own ‘imagined’ fears rather than address those fears and were they stem from within themselves. It’s almost as if their dark imagninings were so real to them that they have forgotten to check the evidence instead deciding their imaginings ‘are’ the evidence.

    The whole point of independence is that we keep ‘them’ in check, the problem we have as we are witnessing is that we don’t have any means to do this in the current set up within the UK and never have. The very fact that it is the SNP that is dominant in Scotland indicates where the majority view lies, why didn’t some further to the left of so called Labour, rise up over the past 15/16 years on the back of the failed ‘new Labour’ experiment in Scotland? When you ask your friend that question it becomes evident that Scotland as a whole has a fair mix of political outlooks, what we don’t have is ‘extreme’ views that have much ‘purchase’ in the mainstream political sense.

    Independence is the beginning of us participating in maintaining that centre, it is not the answer to all our problems and should not be viewed as such, but neither is it a vehicle for extreme elements to capitalise on. More than anything it is us taking responsibility for ourselves and encouraging the next generations tae maintain what has been hard fought for. We will not be throwing ‘caution to the wind’ and anyone who thinks otherwise need examine their own mindset for the solution to their own dark fantasies and maybe just put doon the Express/Mail and turn aff the BBC as any kind of indicator to what may lie ahead in an independent Scotland.

  330. manandboy says:

    Liz g says: 2:36 am
    Manandboy @ 2.18
    “Ok.. Thanks for the reminder…
    Otherwise I would have our Robert Peffers on my tail.
    Britain is really real.”

    If I said we’re down to two out of four, does that help? No worries, Liz, still two lifelines left. Take your time – as Chris T would say.

  331. nodrog says:

    Agree K1. Whilst I am not a fan of “The Donald” I believe he is correct about the “Establishment Media” both in the USA and the UK. More people are beginning to pick up on this and are looking for the truth wherever they can find it.

  332. starlaw says:

    nodrog .. 10.26
    Right on the nail Scotland has plenty sea lochs and tide times vary right round the coast. Loch Carron especially is screaming for a causeway with turbines at Strome, as the road beyond here is often closed by landslides Scotland is not short of material to build these, and incorporating a lock for small craft would be no problem either.

  333. sensibledave says:

    galamcennalath 10:03 am

    You wrote “England/United Kingdom/Great Britain/Britain are all completely interchangeable and synonymous.”

    …. Rubbish!

    English/British are synonymous.

    …. Rubbish

    There is no Union. England took over and absorbed all her neighbours.

    The Union Flag is the national flag of England.

    …. Rubbish

    Geographically, England is the big island lying off Western Europe.

    …. Rubbish!

    Scotland is a northern region of England.

    … Rubbish!

    Scots are really English but because they don’t always accept that, they make themselves second class citizens.

    …. Rubbish!

    People keep writing on here that they have no beef with ordinary English folk. Its the establishment, the government, Westminster etc, I am told – and yet people keep writing this sort of pejorative stereotyping without any hint of embarrassment or constraint – or admonishment from other Wingers.

  334. People Carrier says:

    Alan Mackintosh says:
    12 January, 2017 at 1:20 am
    People carrier, heres the link to the UN declaration of the UK’s status

    Thanks Alan, much appreciated.

  335. Chick McGregor says:

    “Someone earlier either in this thread or last one mentioned talking to their friends who were ah think No voters and said that some of their reasoning for voting No was based on the notion that the SNP ‘would not’ be in charge in an independent Scotland?

    They felt that we ‘could’ or ‘would’ end up as some sort of left wing ‘commie’ type state and that is why they didn’t want independence. The writer also stated that they themselves hadn’t considered that angle?”

    I have often thought a somewhat similar thing though not really in regard to political ideology.

    It has occurred to me Unionists make a great, if unwitting, case against independence. Not any coherent logical argument they make, just their own existence, their frightening level of incompetence and stupidity and the fear in the public that such a melange of mediocrity might somehow gain power in an independent Scotland, whether left or right.

    However, we have to believe that the indy filter is at work here, that those of Lab or Tory persuasion but who are pro-indy and therefore currently off radar, will come to the fore after independence and will be of somewhat better quality.

  336. galamcennalath says:

    K1 says:

    … No voters and said that some of their reasoning for voting No was based on the notion …. that we ‘could’ or ‘would’ end up as some sort of left wing ‘commie’ type state and that is why they didn’t want independence.

    I am quite sure some right / centre NOs feared that.

    Most Scots have views around the centre, while England is now distinctly right wing. There is little chance of the far left, or far right, gaining power in Scotland any time soon. That is not necessarily how everyone sees it.

    Two sources talked up the influence of the far left. Firstly some on the far left gave the impression that the People’s Socialist Republic of Scotland was imminent. And secondly, the Unionists used this as part of their Project Fear.

    Anyone who campaigns for Indy is welcome. Everyone has their view of what iScotland will be. However, everyone needs to appeal to NO voters to convert enough of them.

  337. Stoker says:

    K1 (10:53am)

    Good post and i wholeheartedly agree with this part:
    “Sometimes ah think people just look for reasons no matter how convoluted to support their own ‘imagined’ fears rather than address those fears and were they stem from within themselves. It’s almost as if their dark imagninings were so real to them that they have forgotten to check the evidence instead deciding their imaginings ‘are’ the evidence.”

    sensibledave (11:19am)

    You’re missing 2 exclamation marks.

  338. Brian Powell says:

    So the Green Party may not support the Draft Budget.

    The ToryLabLibDems gut the powers coming to Scotland, though allow borrowing, the SG now going to use the borrowing powers and the ‘newspapers’ who supported the parties gutting the powers screeching about the SG using the powers.

    Now the Greens might oppose SG budget. Well done vote splitters.

    I think the SG should go ahead with their plans, the opposition parties can call a vote of no confidence and we can have a GE.

  339. frogesque says:


    Apparently hate speech is not a hate crime if you are Amber Rudd and it is uttered at a Tory Party Conf.

    I suppose it helps if you are Home Secretary.

  340. Fred says:

    @ Gus, there was talk at one time of a barrage across the Clyde from Ardmore Point, it would need a ship lock though plus objections from the wildfowl folks. I think Loch Fyne would be too deep for a barrage, plenty of other sites though.

  341. Jack Murphy says:

    OT. A Wee Reminder of Scottish Labour’s Great and Good.
    3 YEARS AGO:-
    Lord Robertson says Scottish independence would have a Cataclysmic impact on the wider world.

    Scottish independence would be Cataclysmic for the West in an era of international turmoil !!! 🙁

    Speaking in the US Baron Robertson said a “debilitating divorce” after a “Yes” vote in September would threaten the stability of the wider world !!! 🙁

    He said he believed the US administration was worried about the possibility of Scottish independence.

    I would suggest that Great Britain’s,UKOK Brexit out of Europe, and world events are much more of a threat than an independent Scotland.

    Over to you Dugdale.

  342. manandboy says:

    The British Brainwashing Corporation (BBC) has a new boss – with big ideas for growing the BBC business during the new 11 year charter cycle. Yes, Tony Hall is making big plans. But in speaking about the BBC as a truly unbiased public service broadcaster, he sounds just like Theresa May when she made her first speech after becoming the Prime minister, when she promised to look after the little guy.

    One thing Tony Hall definitely won’t be doing, is allowing Scotland to have its own TV station – you know the kind, just about every country, region and outpost in the world has one.

    The time for Scotland to have its own TV station would have been at the start of the Devolution era in Scotland in the late 1970’s. But this coincided with the start of the North Sea Oil&Gas industry – you remember, the one Westminster wanted kept secret after the McCrone Report in 1974. The last thing Westminster wanted was a Scottish TV Station telling everybody north of the border about Scotland’s new found wealth.

    Since then, nothing has changed in nearly forty years. Westminster knows that an independent Scottish TV station would inevitably bring about Independence as more and more Scots learned the truth about the oil&gas wealth which Westminster was keeping for itself. And so, to suppress the truth about the North Sea, Scotland’s own TV station was deemed too dangerous a threat to Westminster.

    Mr Tony Hall has a great deal to say about the expansion of the British Brainwashing Corporation (BBC), but he will never utter a word about the refusal to allow Scotland its own TV station. He will rabbit on about the BBC’s World Service. It’s just a pity that the British Establishment and the Westminster government have no room in their world view for Scotland – apart from its exploitation and suppression.

    And they say ‘charity begins at home’.

  343. TD says:

    sensible dave at 11:19

    I try to avoid commenting on your posts, sensible, but I cannot resist this time. First, have you heard of irony? It’s a difficult concept to grasp, but it is all around us. If you don’t get irony, you will be confused rather than sensible.

    Galamcennalath’s comments were indeed rubbish, but, and this is the ironic bit, he doesn’t believe them! He is paraphrasing (that’s another tricky one – maybe we should leave that for another day) attitudes which do prevail amongst some English people. And indeed, the confusion on the part of too many English people around the relative status and definitions of England, Britain, the UK and Scotland is one of the main drivers of the resentment in Scotland towards UK institutions and the UK itself. There is an arrogance implicit in confusing England with Britain – it shows disrespect for the non-English parts of Britain and the UK.

    I’m sure Galamcennalath can speak for himself, but you really have missed the point of his post. And as for his post being anti-English – no it is not. It highlights certain attitudes held by some English people. That is not the same thing.

    You also rebuke Wingers for not challenging “pejorative” comments. Well you challenged them. Are you not a Winger? I think of myself as a Winger and you post far more than me. I think you are a Winger – you just don’t agree with the majority opinion on this site. Just shows how tolerant a place this is.

  344. Tam Jardine says:


    Would you accept Dave that England annexed Ireland, annexed Wales and attempted to annex Scotland from the 13th century right up until the union in 1707? And that the union in 1707 was against the vast majority of the people’s wishes? Under threat of invasion?

    And would you accept that Scotland was depopulated and put under martial law with extensive fortifications built to subjugate the people?

    You wonder why a country who has been subject to genocide (for there is no other term for it) and domination has long seated issues when it’s current independence struggle is opposed by its larger neighbour with every fibre of its being?

    Or am I just being a chippy jock?

  345. Clydebuilt says:

    Antidote to BBC’s propaganda

    Encourage Scots to listen / watch FMQ’s

    The case for an Independent Scotland made by our FM in the way she chooses without interruption.

    The stupidity of Unionist politicians laid bare for all to see.

  346. Liz Rannoch says:

    Could think of another name beginning with W.

  347. Tam Jardine says:

    nodrog & gus

    I have posted on this very subject- I wonder if anyone has done any work on the feasibility of tidal barrages being used at the mouths of sea lochs. It strikes me as a far more economical proposition than building many miles of artifical lagoons as they are doing elsewhere.

    Dave could maybe make himself useful and look into it for us. From one winger to another…

  348. heedtracker says:

    Scotland is a northern region of England.

    … Rubbish!

    Its far worse than that sensible, far worse. TeamGB tory planners of merry olde London have always have a massive border between their ears and their Scotland region of greater England, always both excluded, ignored, bled white, ridiculed, always last on their list sensiblesave.

    Or rather sensible, our tory masters left their Scotland region of greater England in the hands of red tory Labour, who decided what was “good enough” for their region.

    Now that’s started to change sensible, and why youre here going UKOK nuts at us, same UKOK tory planners in London have been busily asset stripping their Scotland region, as their tory BBC Scotland led media tries to destroy Scottish democracy and government. Ofcourse their Scotland region is still their ideal nuke missile base, too dangerous to be held in England sensible.

    I mean, I’m from Aberdeen sensible, Europe’s oil capital and we are just now getting a by-pass, after a 40 year English only transport investment period that meant every single English town of similar size to Aberdeen has had several huge by-passes built and all of them connecting up to a massive English 21st C motorway network, all of which ending 100’s of miles anywhere near the Scotland region of greater England, and much of it paid for with not Scots oil and gas revenue.

    Even this one by-pass for Aberdeen sensible, has been relentlessy monstered, delayed, and then monstered, again by hard core yoon culture, just like you, all the way down there in the south east of England.

    And now they’re building HS2 for the UK xone, London to Sheffield, if they can keep borrowing, in Scots account too.

    Hope this helps, sensible.

  349. Bob MACK says:


    Your answer lies in history books Dave. How many sons of conquered Maharajas were educated in English public schools and universities ? How many Indians were appointed to senior civil service positions? .
    The same can be proven in any country conquered by the UK.
    Conquer, integrate and manipulate the controlling classes to be subservient to your wishes. The rest of the population will fall into line, conveniently all the while under military threat.

    An old recipe, but an effective one

  350. Col says:

    Typical bbc balance at the end of first minister’s questions. Two ultra unionist commentators putting the boot in and just generally talking utter nonsense. They really are getting worse.

  351. heedtracker says:

    Scotland is a northern region of England.

    … Rubbish!

    Should really add sensibledave, the colossal UK England only transport investment infrastructure, for 5 decades now, is a good example with which to show you how the Scotland region is last on the list, not on the list region of greater England, it is merely because we can actually see it all, when you hit the M1 at Newcastle, off a deadly single lane trunk road, clogged with tractors.

    But there has ofcourse been exact same massive UKOK gov investment focused primarily in the south east of England, in almost all other sectors, from military to industrial, all of which can blow yer mind as soon as get off the train at Kings Cross and see houses for sale in London burbs costing far more than whole streets in Scotland. Its not by chance.

  352. Ken500 says:

    Scotland has always been taxed higher than the rest of the UK by Westminster.

    More tax has always been raised in Scotland (pro rata) than the rest of the UK. Westminster has squandered it on illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion.

    The state of the NHS in England/Wales is shocking. Education £9000 fees etc.

    There has been tidal barrages in France since 1960’s. A tidal barrage on the Humber £9Billion was cancelled. Hinkley Point will cost £Billions more.

  353. Flower of Scotland says:

    Brian Powell@11.35

    If that’s true about the Greens, then I hope some on here take note after badgering people to split their vote in the Holyrood elections.

  354. heedtracker says:

    12 January, 2017 at 12:39 pm
    Scotland is a northern region of England.

    … Rubbish!

    Also sensibledave, because so much investment has been pumped into the superheating London and south east economy only, its meant a massive money supply sloshing around down there and has ofcourse attracted huge immigration from outside and within the EU, eastern countries especially. So huge uncontrolled immigration, attracted by over heated centralised economics, has focourse resulted in Brexit. A massive unintended consequence, maybe catastrophic of UKOK centralisation, by both red and blue UKOK tories, who have always looked at their Scotland region of greater England and decided, fuck em, it’s all ours,. down here.

    Irony sensibledave, from the current Scotland region of greater England but not for much longer.

  355. gus1940 says:

    I agree with col @12.56

    Nicola totally flattened the Ruthsfuhrer and Dugdale fared little better.

    However, the post mortem with Flubber and the 2 unionist (as usual) journalists would have given anybody who didn’t actually watch FMQs the impression that Nicola was under pressure and performed poorly – nothing could be further from the truth.

  356. Andrew McLean says:

    In defence of the Greens, are they not playing consensual politics and was that not the idea in the first place?
    They would be pretty ineffective if they just rolled over, but the problem with the Greens is they let stupid ideology get in the way of sensible taxation in fact sensible anything.

    Now if only we had another intelligent progressive party in Holyrood, anyone? anyone at all? No thought not!

  357. shug says:

    Really interesting listening to the BBC lunch time news. All about Trump attacking CNN and Buzfeed. Tromp attacking CIA

    No mention of his comments about the BBC. NO mention of the MI6 Link

    If they think the American government under Trump are going to trust them going forward they are in lala land

  358. gus1940 says:

    re tidal barrages – apart from the West Coast sea lochs an ideal place for a tidal barrage is the site of the Forth Rail Bridge which is the narrowest point in the estuary.

    A barrage under the bridge using the bridge piers in the construction with a road along the top of the barrage and a bifurcated section with a lock at the Deep Channel to allow continued navigation could be constructed.

    I am not knocking the new Queensferry Crossing but I would be interested to see how the cost of such a barrage compared with the cost of the new bridge.

    Given the terrain at each end a possible problem would be tunneling/excavation for the approach roads.

  359. Dr Jim says:


    You’ve got no quibble from me nod, if the science says yes then you can’t argue, take note of anything useful and use it
    SNP credo

    The Budget

    Comrade Harvies stance over the budget is the now real and obvious reason why the vote splitting advocators are having a wee hard look at what they’ve done and it’s costing certain websites for doing it, coz folk urny happy

    This looks likely now for a ten bob deal with the Lib Dems so they can say they’ve done something other than jump up and down on bouncy castles all year
    But if it doesn’t culminate in a deal then I certainly hope Derek McKay will turn on his hard man attitude and tell them they can have a GE if they want and let’s see what the wee Comrade wants to do then

    Coz he’s the one that’ll pay for it, (and of course Labour) everybody else will stay pretty much where they are but the SNP would get the majority next time

    Apparently Amber Rudd is a hate speaker now, Polis classified

    See if stuff gets more stupid aw wur fingers’ll wear oot

  360. Liz Rannoch says:

    Just started posting again after a while away. Sorry – note to self @ 12.31 it was TD @12.20 I commented to (slaps wrist).

    Tam Jardine and others re tidal barrages. Don’t know how this would affect Loch Fyne oysters, shrimps etc or any rivers with salmon that flow into them. Really good export industry.
    The best place is where they are doing it, now, Pentland Firth. Believe it to be one of the strongest tidal races in Europe. MeyGen just got £17 million to go ahead with Part ll of their arrays.

  361. Dek says:

    O/t the guy who is suing Corals ( see rev Twitter feed and elsewhere ) is being id ‘d by btl knuckledraggers. Somebody offer him a safe house.

  362. heedtracker says:

    Guy Verhofstadt

    “What are your priorities in the forthcoming Brexit negotiations?” This was one of the questions put to all candidates standing for the Presidency of the European Parliament in last night’s debate hosted by POLITICO Europe.

    My answer is clear; the values of the European Union must be defended. The so called four freedoms – including free movement – are not up to negotiations. But I also believe that the views of those who voted “Remain” must be heard.”

    Are they going to listen to the Scotland region of greater England though, sensibledave? The Scotland region of greater England looks a lot bigger on Guy Verhofstadt website Europe map too, far bigger than any BBC weather maps of their Scotland region for example.

    Funny that sensible?

  363. sinky says:

    A very good article in National on why wingers should send regular letters to unionist press and call BBC phone ins No point just talking to ourselves.

  364. Graf Midgehunter says:

    @ Alan Mackintosh

    Thanks for the info about Yanis. Nice to know I’m not completely daft..! 😉

  365. shug says:

    when you call in you have to take the approach of a unionist or you won’t get through
    They maintain a data base of callers so use a different number each time

    You then have a choice change and take an independence line or be so unionist as to be offensive to any right thinking person

    Always cast doubt on the BBC ethics – where were you when Jimmy Savile was running free

  366. K1 says:

    Yes Chick, ‘Not any coherent logical argument they make, just their own existence, their frightening level of incompetence and stupidity and the fear in the public that such a melange of mediocrity might somehow gain power in an independent Scotland, whether left or right.’ They do indeed ‘self reflect’ when ‘thinking’ on independence, that’s the trouble they ‘assume’ we are all ‘like them’. Hopefully, yes the ‘indy effect’ would sort that out in and of itself.


    ‘However, everyone needs to appeal to NO voters to convert enough of them.’ Well this is exactly part of my point, in addressing this particular ‘view’, it’s an appeal to their intelligence galamcennalath when it comes to ‘fear’ and addressing some of those fears with a kind of evidence based ‘logic’.


    Aye Stoker, definitely resonate wi that in ma own experience wi those opposed on the grounds of ‘dark imaginings’ fuelled by msm promulgating the doomsayers/vested interests viewpoints.


    ‘…but you really have missed the point of his post.’ Quite so TD

    ‘I think you are a Winger’ Quite so TD, he’s a Right Winger. 😉

  367. By accident in a friend’s house I happened to catch BBC Destroying Scotland’s lunchtime bulletin. Po faced Magnusson opens with the FM ‘under fire’ at FMQ’s over the clinician recommended delay in opening the 4 new trauma centres in Edinburgh Glasgow Aberdeen and Dundee.
    Davidson tub thumping and Dugdale providing the Better Together We’re All Tories Now encore: patients dying, what has the FM got to say for herself?
    England is in meltdown, Wales Labour Administration is crumbling, yet The Scottish Branch Offices have the neck to attempt to lambast NS and our Scottish HS?
    They continue to demonstrate that they are operating stratospherically above their pay grade, which in real terms is money for nothing merely bum warming and cackling incoherently from the sidelines in Edinburgh.
    Davidson in particular, has no shame.
    I rely on Stu, or Paul over on WGD to unpick this delayed Trauma Centres non story.
    BBC Scotland: the last ‘Redoubt’ of the Unionists, to adopt Derek Bateman’s analogy.
    Like Michael Gove, Dugdale and Davidson know better that the ‘experts’, in any field apparently.

  368. Meg merrilees says:

    Just catching up on FMQ’s.

    Nicola is formidable! Listen to her reply to Ruthie at about 12.08- 12.11 Completely wipes the floor with the leader of the Scottish Coservatives. Magnificent!

    I learn from the FM that the SNHS is consistently performing 10% better than the NHS in England… wonder where the Daily Heil got its false information from i.e. that the situation is the same in Scotland as ‘down south’.

    Lies, lies and damned lies.

  369. bladerunner says:

    O/t We need more people discovering wings!

    I bought a 5 section aluminium flagpole (comes with a flag which can be thrown in bucket if not required) – £30ish ebay. 10 metre roll galvanised banding – £4 ebay. Wings over scotland flag – £5 Pole can be concreted into ground, but I found it was easier to sit it on a brick or piece of wood against my wall and secure it using the perforated banding and rawl plugs with screws. I think you could fit it to the support post on a fence with just the banding and woodscrews. 4 sections of the pole was high enough for my garden, its been up for 6 months and gets loads of attention.

  370. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Graf, you’re welcome. As I recall, Yanis and his team, when he was the finance guy in the greek government had been setting up the Drachma (in secret) in case they were ejected from the euro and needed to have a working currency ready to go.

  371. yesindyref2 says:

    Mike Small’s articles are OK, and he’s as entitled as anyone to put another point of view, as long as honestly.

    But as BCE he’s a total disaster. Anyone disagreeing with his article he’s snotty, petulant and insulting. And bans people like me! He’s a classic case of why blog owners need to think carefully about writing below the line – speically “anonymously” as Bella Caledonia Editor.

    But it’s good the blog keeps going generally, just needs a new editor.

  372. Fred says:

    @ Gus, the Forth again is problematic, shipping needs access to Rosyth & Grangemouth etc! like an aircraft-carrier for example!

  373. Stu Mac says:

    @Meg merrilees says:
    12 January, 2017 at 7:31 am

    During 2014 a guy I know fell for Daily Mail story that in a wee village in (I think) Ayrshire SNP supporters were hounding a couple who were anti-indy and making their lives miserable. Sounded dodgy so I searched for the story thinking it was such a strong antiSNP story it must have appeared lots of places. It only appeared in one place – the Daily Mail and that was me doing extra searches online for local papers that would be likely to run it.

    I then followed the link to the Mail and wished I hadn’t (I wanted to check to see if they gave clear sources I could check – they didn’t). The Mail page was full of anti SNP, anti Indy stories and it wasn’t the amount that got me, it was the bitterness, hatred and bile in every one. I genuinely felt polluted by just looking at the page. Not having ever bothered to read it before I wondered if it had always been like that or had gotten worse recently. Of course it is the paper of the Zinoviev letter and which supported Hitler.

    When talking about press freedom, surely it can’t be right that misinformation (and downright lies) and hatred is acceptable? Of course that is a rhetorical question.

  374. Meg merrilees says:

    Jack Collatin

    Nicola’s explanation – which it would seem the BBC has not broadcast- is that the original two trauma centres planned for Edinburgh and Glasgow only were not quite right for requirements and so there has been a rethink of the strategy which has resulted in 4 trauma centres Ed, Glas, Dundee and Aberdeen.

    These will not be new buildings but will pull together various strands and add to as required per region to create the new centres of excellence with Aberdeen and Dundee expected to be operational within the next 18 months.

    Nicola asked how dare Ruth criticise SNHS when compared the lamentable state of the NHS in England under the tory gov. She also pointed out that a labour gov under Kezia would have invested £500million less in the SNHS so where would we be in that scenario.

    Prof Bell has suggested that the NHS in England should learn lessons from the SNHS and our systems as we are performing so well.

    Sadly, that is missed out by the impartial BBC – Donalda take note!

  375. schrodingers cat says:

    in other news, bbc says, “penguin blows seal”

  376. Stu Mac says:

    @Dr Jim says:

    No, we’d have called him a wee sook and a crawlin barstweard.

    Unless you know if he’s been tellin’ tales about anyone.

  377. Capella says:

    @ yesindyref2 – Bella Caledonia are thinking of going for a co-operative format so there will be more people involved. That might promote a variety of views.

    Being a socialist at heart, I have no problem with left-wing opinions. But I’m also interested in what right of centre people think about independence. Michael Fry in The National wrote a typical article which was full of holes but at least said what he thought.

    What’s unacceptable is trying to manipulate the democratic process to undermine the SNP i.e. the only vehicle for independence we have. That caused me to skip reading the site and I have probably missed many good articles as a result.

  378. Col says:

    Have the BBC covered the alleged labour councillor paedophile? If not why not? What are the implications of shielding such people to possible further victims who may not come forward as a result?

  379. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    RE: tidal power.

    I’ve suggested, over the past few years, that tidal powered generators could be mounted on the piers of the Tay Road Bridge.

    They would cause no extra blockage to shipping. The Tay discharges into the North Sea more water than the Thames and Severn combined.

    When the tide is coming in, the speed of the flow towards Perth has to be seen to be believed.

  380. gus1940 says:

    fred @2.50

    That’s why I proposed a bifurcated section with a lock at The Deep Water Channel to allow ships to pass without disrupting the road traffic.

  381. Robert Peffers says:

    @Fred says: 12 January, 2017 at 11:51 am:

    “I think Loch Fyne would be too deep for a barrage, plenty of other sites though.”

    There are, of course, better ways and the Scottish firths are particularly well endowed to use them. A barrage uses tidal flow but instead of just tidal power why not also use the very fast river currents that run down through most Scottish Firths?

    The Spey, for example, has the most abundant and strongest flow of water from the mountains down to the sea in Britain. With a strong river current you can have a series of such turbines for the same volume of water will still have pass all points to get down to the sea past each unit in the series.

    I would imagine some sort of venture tube action would need to be employed so as to make sure the flow rate to each turbine in the series got the right flow rate for best efficiency.

    The shape of the Firths is such that as they widen nearer the sea the same volume of water must be passing at a lower rate as it nears the sea and a venturi effect would counter those variations.

    Mind you I cannot see why there could not also be a barrage and a tidal effect generation too. Perhaps even a normal type hydro scheme further upstream as well. Not to mention wave motion generation by the sea might work.

    With the will, and investment, Scotland could be Europe’s best generating station for green energy.

    Don’t tell Patrick, though. It might swell his wee green pointy head too much.

  382. sassenach says:

    Sadly, the ‘discussion’ following FMQs clearly shows that Donalda has changed nothing (possibly making it even worse!).

    Following our FM having handed the leading unionists (Mooth & Dug) their backsides on a plate, the ‘impartial’ journalists (spit) proceed to make it sound like she’s on the backfoot. Ridiculous lack of any balance – I think even Big Brian at one point was trying to defend Nicola, a little!!

    I’m now convinced that this year is going to be trench warfare with the BBC Scotland unionist mob, both radio and TV are increasing their bias at a rapid rate. We can only hope enough Scots are aware of the process and not being affected.

  383. mike d says:

    O/t so president Obama in his farewell speech urged Americans to consider others points of view. Shame he never took his own advice when he poked his fcukn nose into Scotlands referendum.

  384. Shug says:

    Yep BBC is on a full war footing now

    No balance or even truth to be expected now

  385. yesindyref2 says:

    A lot of us were hacked off about the SNP not having an overall majority, because of perhaps being more difficult to secure Indy Ref 2, but the compensating advantages of the triple-powered Greens having the balance of power are appearing more now.

    It means the unionist media will always be looking to drive a wedge between the two parties, so whenever the Greens disagree with something like as now the budget, or next month the price of budgies, after that rebranding pet resuce centres and painting them yellow or green, the media will be quick to interview Patrick Harvie. Inevitably they will ask about Indy Ref 2 which keeps the whole thing in the public mind, and allows the Unionist parties to do their usual mouth-frothing acts of self-destruction.

    Hopefully the next few months will see the unionists continue to rant and rave about Indy Ref 2, while the pro-indy parties and spokespeople will be cool calm and collected. Hearts and minds of the relatively disinterested don’t just mean positively going after them, it’s letting the other side hack them off – and providing the stimulus (provocation) for them to do so.

    Softly softly and I think we should start to see an upward movement in support for Independence. Initiatives like BBC Misreporting Scotland with billboards can really come into their own now, the BBC is getting more self-protective and will inevitably show its true colours more and more. I doubt for instance if the road trips will get attention on the BBC news, but will certainly get local notice from people who might wonder why this isn’t being nationally reported on the trusted BBC?

    Meanwhile Patrick Harvie gently mentions that we should be ready for a referendum half-way through Brexit – i.e. around next April / May 2018. Unionists will love that idea.

  386. ScottieDog says:

    Regardinng stereotyping the whole Scots/English thing I think it’s really hard for folk south of the border to ‘get’. Most of my work colleagues are English (some living up here now) but I think the ‘England provides’ thing is just part of the phsyche. There’s not a bit of malice in that and it’s not normally referred to overtly, although the exception to that was in 2014.

    I do remember the smirk of incredulity (all from really nice people who I still get on well with) I had to put up with (almost sympathy) when I admitted to being one of the few YES voters in the company. I did have a couple of robust conversations with folk who accused me of thinking with my heart (a romantic nationalist). I quizzed them about their knowledge of rUK assets v Scottish assets. Time and again I heard the mainstream sound bites found on the BBC or The Times app being parroted and when I delved deeper there was simply no underlying knowledge outwith an article on msm.

    I actually had one senior manager tell me my job up north would go .(.half joking).

    Anyway all that as an aside, I think the beliefs that Scotland is wholly dependent on England are deeply ingrained and accepted as sure as the sun rises in the morning. If you had asked me a little more than a decade ago I probably would have agreed.

  387. louis.b.argyll says:

    Indeed, tidal ‘hydro’ power is a no-brainer.

    Shame we’ve had elected numpties and their knighted accountants in charge of the country for the last 50 years.

    Although concrete is massively carbon positive, hydro schemes soon reclaim their various ‘costs’..AND while your building your dam you have concrete and logistics handy, to upgrade rural infrastructure.

    A (still) nationalised power ‘company’, had it built another 4 Cruachan type installations, would be the most eco friendly generator outside Iceland, our future friendly geo-tech-rich neighbour.

    Instead we’re lumped in with Hornby-Nuke-Land.

  388. Chick McGregor says:

    “My answer is clear; the values of the European Union must be defended. The so called four freedoms – including free movement – are not up to negotiations. But I also believe that the views of those who voted “Remain” must be heard.”

    Wonder if reads Wings 😉

  389. Robert Graham says:

    Interesting comments regarding the use of tidal flow , all subject to the whim of some arshole in another country no doubt .or are the plebs up here allowed to play at being a government a little longer before the adults step in and take control again .all courtesy of the good folks who voted “NO” and well and truly tied our hands behind our back three cheers for those arseholes hip hip

  390. schrodingers cat says:

    Nana says:

    Open for comments

    interesting article about why a hard brexit is inevitable, i agree with him, but he misses an important point. a hard brexit is a binary decision,

    UK. we are taking back control of our borders…..

    this is the uk’s default position, its pre negotiation position, its red line. only if the EU is willing to change its stance, its pre negotiation position, which up until now they have shown no willingness to do so, then the EU answer (guy verhofstadt) will be

    EU, fine then hard brexit it is, give us a call if you change your mind, bye

    short conversation, I cant see why this will take 2 years, 2 mins is more likely.

    best bet, Nicola will call indyref2 the day after the may local elections

  391. Paul Rose says:

    A reminder – if you want to do something about the BBC fund this and let others know so they can as well…

  392. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, that belief is genuine with the English you get on forums as well, those London-based ones more though. I was lucky to have worked on an economic model of Scotland back in the mid-70s which showed, surprise surprise, that Scotland could stand on our own two feet – and that was before oil took hold.

    It’s changed since then with the loss of so much of our heavy industry but as one left, another one moved in or started. So we had the electronics and silicon glen, the financial sector growing, then the call centre industry. But Scotland has got better at marketing itself, and so food and drink has blossomed, and the tourism industry has moved with the times – curiously with the help of a lot of innovative and enterprising English people, both in the adventure holiday sector, accomodation – and food and drink, including microbreweries.

    But the media concentrate on the negative stories mostly. Just last night there was some news about gin, with one Scottish legend saying the reason Scotland is so good at gin is because of centuries of experience distilling. Gin can be distilled and bottled in days making a fast turnaround, and Scotland produces 70% of UK gin. 70% that’s worth well over £1 billion to our economy.

    Properly reported business news in Scotland could make a vast difference to the perceptions not just of the indigenous Scots, but also the English and other incomers – and perhaps too, those oustide Scotland who look on Scotland from afar, mostly down their noses “I love the Scots but they’re a bit backward”. That’s the ones who don’t think we’re subsidised and living on handouts.

  393. Chick McGregor says:

    Paula Rose
    How about a screenings tour as per The Spirit of Scotland?

    Also Yes pubs could show it regularly on the pub TVs.

  394. Paula Rose says:

    Yes Chick all these options should be tried – up to each group to use the methods best suited where they are – first though we need to get it funded.

  395. Chick McGregor says:

    I already contributed back at the start.

  396. Dr Jim says:

    Barnet Formula and Block Grant

    The two phrases no English person understands and quite a lot of Scots too
    Explain and debunk them and you’re halfway there although they were named such for a good westminster reason a bit like that other phrase that means nothing, Scottish Oil, or in Scots, that stuff we never had that westminster told the English we did

    If you tell people the word pish means shampagne for fifty years eventually they’ll swally it

  397. Graf Midgehunter says:

    …and so once more as a test of my will against that of the internet boogies:

    2 links as a resource to store for future “discussions” with non Yessers.

    🙂 🙂

  398. schrodingers cat says:
    12 January, 2017 at 4:35 pm
    Nana says:

    Open for comments

    interesting article about why a hard brexit is inevitable, i agree with him, but he misses an important point. a hard brexit is a binary decision,

    UK. we are taking back control of our borders…..

    this is the uk’s default position, its pre negotiation position, its red line. only if the EU is willing to change its stance, its pre negotiation position, which up until now they have shown no willingness to do so, then the EU answer (guy verhofstadt) will be

    EU, fine then hard brexit it is, give us a call if you change your mind, bye

    short conversation, I cant see why this will take 2 years, 2 mins is more likely.

    best bet, Nicola will call indyref2 the day after the may local elections


    If quoting another poster can it not be made a lot clearer where their quote ends and your answer begins. Italics or even a line drawn under it or even making use of QUOTE & UNQUOTE.

  399. Croompenstein says:

    Aw Jings poor Kez cannae save her own union never mind UKOK…

    she twists and turns like a twisty turny thing..

  400. Stoker says:

    Archive links for January 2013 now over on O/T.

  401. Vestas says:

    @ Croompenstein 5:30pm

    “Aw Jings poor Kez cannae save her own union never mind UKOK…

    she twists and turns like a twisty turny thing..”

    I think you got the url wrong when you posted here – the Daily Mail is -> that way.

  402. Gary45% says:

    Regarding tidal power, not sure if this is correct, I heard one of the problems with fixed sea bed turbines is, they eventually get cover with the moving sea bed.
    So maintenance is a problem, I suppose a underwater “floating” system might work, it may already have been tried.
    Had a wee listed to Shortbread in the car at about 4.40ish, first time this year, a story about trains running on time, then the usual “BUT”, I then switched channels. TOTAL PISH.
    Dr Jim@5.12
    I think us Scots know the term “Scotland’s Oil” is SHAMpagne by the way it has been stolen from us, and guzzled by Westminster.

  403. bugsbunny says:

    Here we go….”SNP Ships of shame…” call out the old bastards with their flags about foreign seamen getting paid £2 an hour, even though the newsreader admits maritime law falls under Westminster. Jim Sillars was right. It’s a headache trying to talk sense to a bunch of feeking idiots.

  404. Lenny Hartley says:

    Re Tidal, an engineer friend of mine worked out over a decade ago the way to go was to start building a bridge to Orkney, put turbines in between the spans allowing them to be raised for maintenance, build a span at a time, the money raised producing electrickery could help fund the next span , until you get to Orkney, simples.

  405. Cactus says:

    Aweright Lenny Hartley ~


    The bridge from / to Orkney.

    With many more bridges to come..

  406. Socrates MacSporran says:

    All this talk about tial barrages and tidal power got me thinking. I recall, many years ago, the idea of a tidal barrage across the Solway Firth was being touted.

    This one would work – quite a high surge tide, plus, no meaningful ports would be left behind the barrage, meaning no need to have an opening gate for shipping.

    Of course, it never happened, but, once we gain our Independence and start exporting our power to impoverished England, maybe we should resurrect the idea and help our neighbours out. Also, if we put a road across the top, it would open up Dumfries and Galloway, and help more English “white settlers” get up here quicker. Good neighbours and all that, looking after the struggling country next door.

  407. brewsed says:

    Re Tidal Power
    Us landlubbers tend to forget the marine environment is extremely hostile – just leave something dangling in the water (no not that Donald) and it will become encrusted with marine growth. Add some nasty weather and access becomes tricky. Add a current and access gets even trickier. I don’t suppose the news darth sarth will mention that tonight’s weather is forecast to gust over 68Knots which the Beaufort Scale says is a hurricane with waves over 14m and a sea state of ‘phenomenal’ and which is not that unusual up north over the winter months. This means structures in the Pentland Firth have to be more than normally robust and hence expensive even though the rewards for getting it right could be considerable because of the rate of the current. A sea loch sounds like a good idea for a barrage but the environmental impact would probably mitigate against.

  408. Meg merrilees says:

    Fred @9.40am
    Galamcennalath@ 10.03 am

    Re my post at 6.32am

    This was my response to Alan Mackintosh’s post at 1.23am including this link which is the UK’s official declaration to the UN on the standardisation of geographical names. The points i have printed are the verbatim text from the official UK definition of the UK and its constituent parts. Look at page 4 for the definition of the UK!!!

    Fred – sorry, it actually states that N. Ireland is a Province and that “Ulster is not a synonym for N Ireland – Ulster is one of four historic provinces of Ireland and has an extent broader than N Ireland alone”. (This is the official WM Gov position.)

    Sorry if it’s offensive but I’m only reporting what i read – definitely not my personal view of things. Just find it fascinating to see it laid out so clinically.

    E.G: Wonder how many South Britainers will be shattered to learn that “the ‘Great’ in GB is NOT a self-styled sense of greatness but derives from the french term Grande Bretagne – Large Brittany used since mediaeval times as distinct from Brittany”

  409. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Chick McGregor

    Ma bad Chick, ah purloined your Donalda song & forwarded it to Jock Scott & Ninga Penguin to add another two verses . That will go down well at our BBC BIAS Protest on 26th March .

  410. gus1940 says:

    Having watched today’s FMQs live, the ensuing discussion, lunchtime and evening editions of Misreporting Scotland it became obvious to me that any resemblance of these news programs and what actually happened at FMQs was non-existent.

    Any hopes we may have had that the accession of Donalda wotsername would improve things at PQ were surely dashed today with the coverage having probably reached an all time SNPbad low.

  411. HandandShrimp says:

    On the way home from work I turned the radio on to catch the 6 o’clock news to see what all the latest was on Trump, the weather etc and BBC Scotland led on “FM under fire from Tories over”….something, I turned the radio off.

    I just can’t be arsed with it any more.

  412. Robert Peffers says:

    @Graf Midgehunter says: 12 January, 2017 at 5:20 pm:

    ” … 2 links as a resource to store for future “discussions” with non Yessers.”

    First things first, Graf Migehunter. You only have to remove the first bit from YouTube links. Other links get posted as normal:-

    Second of all the BBC does have a very true and plausible reason for the weather map distortion.

    What they DO NOT have is a good reason for not explaining the reason to Joe & Josephine Public.

    Here is the actual truthful reason. Maps, all of them, are projections of the actual view of a bit of the Earth that the map represents. So all maps depend upon the point of view, or perspective, of the viewer making the map.

    If the view is directly above the object then there is no distortion of shape on the map.

    However, the map projection used for the weather maps are from the perspective of the weather satellite’s cameras and these are centred over continental Europe.

    The resultant weather map thus shows the the perspective from over central Europe.

    Thing is, why do the BBC not make that clear?
    Furthermore, why do the BBC, and many other MSM, (MainStreamMeadia), outlets use weather map projections for non-weather maps and subjects?

    Now, just in case you jalousie I’m siding with the BBC I’ll explain my view. I see this as a good example to show Joe & Josephine Public of just how the BBC, by omitting to explain the reason, are brainwashing the public.

    Just as they do on a minute by minute basis by wrongly using the term, “Britain”, when what the mean is only the United Kingdom bit of Britain and that bit does not include four non-UK bits that include the three non-UK Crown Protectorates and the non-UK Republic of Ireland.

    Now have a wee thought to yourself – What would the map of the three country Kingdom of England bit of Britain look like on a map perspective of directly above the centre of Britain – but without showing Scotland, The Republic of Ireland, Jersey, Guernsey and Man?

    Now you see why Westminster likes to portray itself as, “Britain”, instead of just, “Little England”?

    Their mind’s eye picture of that map terrifies them.

  413. Artyhetty says:


    Indeed very true.’ Block grant’, sounds like a bonus, or benefit, and most in england and many in Scotland think it is a top up awarded to the sweaties in north britain, keeping them living a life of luxury! They think that the Barnett formula is a subsidy, not the crumbs thrown back at Scotland out of revenues taken by the UK treasury, in reality.

    Of course many know exactly what these mechanisms are, a nice big chunky, well oiled gravy train all the way from Scotland to Lundun. They ain’t gonna give that up without a fight either, too much to lose. It’s why the unionists would prefer that people do not have a clue about the whole set up of this so called union.

    Even looking at Scotland’s land mass, with such a small population, and diverse resources, the uinionists see the £ signs even more than anyone can imagine.

    One possible advantage of brexit, is that the 27 other nations in the EU, can see with a bit more clarity, just what the UKOK, grt britainia thing actually stands for.

  414. galamcennalath says:

    Meg merrilees says:

    Sorry if it’s offensive but I’m only reporting what i read

    I certainly didn’t find what you said as offensive. Apologies if it sounded like it. 🙂

    I have lived in South Britain and it never fails to amaze me how many have such an astonishly poor knowledge about the status, history, and geography of their own country. Failed education system and decades of propaganda, I suppose.

  415. louis.b.argyll says:

    Nana, I’ll let you bet a fiver at 5/2.. on the post May-election day-ish, say 10 days) call for referendum..? For charity of course..
    My favourite? Considering Brexit is a guaranteed loose horse/banana skin..
    She calls it a year from now, with 6 months notice.

  416. heedtracker says:

    Robert Peffers

    However, the map projection used for the weather maps are from the perspective of the weather satellite’s cameras and these are centred over continental Europe.”

    Its not Robert, its BBC crew’s cgi rendering of a fictional satellite view. Here’s the Met office UK weather map.

    I think the beeb gimps use the IR satelite photos Robert,

    So BBC weather view aspect of teamGB land, is clearly selected by a few twerps using what little power they do possess, to belittle our country, Bonny Scotland, currently a region of greater England, currently:D

  417. heedtracker says:

    Met Office UK zone IR and rain satellite view. Also, Met Office somehow manage to fit in the Shetland Islands. Funny that. Although, the more zoomery Britnats keep howling Shetland wants independence, from who? Scotland,

  418. heedtracker says:

    Met OFfice visible satellite view of teamGB is off, as its dark up there right?

    Whats interesting is that the Met Office have chosen the view directly over the British Isles, right in the middle. And that’s what the Romans did with Hadrian’s wall too. Spooky.

  419. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Robert Peffers.

    At 7.38pm you typed,
    “However, the map projection used for the weather maps are from the perspective of the weather satellite’s cameras and these are centred over continental Europe.

    The resultant weather map thus shows the the perspective from over central Europe.”

    You’re unusually misinformed there. All the (weather) satellite data comes down to the satellite receiving station at the University of Dundee. Here’s what it says on their home page:-

    Dundee Satellite Receiving Station, Dundee University, UK, maintains an up-to-date archive of images from NOAA, SeaStar, Terra and Aqua polar orbiting satellites. Images from geostationary satellites covering the whole earth are also available. To view the images please complete the on-line registration form. Registration is free and the images are free.

    They released a number of satellite pics to the media during the winter of 2010/11. Here’s one that was taken on Christmas Eve, at 12.57pm, showing the UK, from directly above, covered in snow.

  420. Croompenstein says:


    I think you got the url wrong when you posted here – the Daily Mail is -> that way

  421. Robert Kerr says:

    Just my two groats worth.

    I use Eumetsat for my views on the weather. The view is from 0 deg longitude in geosynchronous orbit above the equator.

    You can play a twenty four hours film of the progress of storms etc at one frame an hour.

    Lots more to play with on their site.

  422. Tackety Beets says:

    Work pressure so no adding comments much these days.
    I read your tho’

    Ref Tidal / Hydro power

    As a youngster I used to dodge the gillie and fish the Don (ABZ) , I look back on what I observed.

    In West ABZ the Don had a hydro plant every 4 or 5 miles, they had “salmon leaps” ( Ladders) to enable the fish to travel up stream. In the early 60’s I asked around as they were being de-commissioned. “Ach we r gaan on t the National Grid” seamed to be the answer.
    I would imagine new plant & a wee investment on these structures could have them re-instated.

    Even as a youngster I struggled to comprehend why?
    Since those days I have always felt “hydro” using a very reliable “Dynamo” whether on river or in a firth is a fantastic source of green friendly energy.

    On English & Yoons

    I visit a long term customer recently to do a wee repair, job done set to leave but it came clear the nice mannie wanted a blether. Who am I to ignore him?
    Shorten it .

    He has moved to the highlands from dorwn souf.Way down sourf.

    “We came here every year to visit friends and found the people so different” he explains “we found a dif attitude altogether especially towards our disabled son” All in all they all love it here “Except for those bloody English incomers who want to moan about everything and try to change things, I cringe when I go to the paper shop and those types are there, they are an embarrassment ” Those were his words.
    Before Anyone gets shirty those were his words but he was specifying a very specific type of person he did not like and he had wanted to leave behind down sourf. His real point was he found folk up in the Highlands more to his liking.

    Yoon tells me he is wheat intolerant and blurts out he can get special bread & pasta on prescription. Really ? I ask . “Yes but only basics quantities etc ” he explains.

    “Lucky for you we have an SNP Gvt who keep Free Prescriptions unlike WM who have Engerland paying for them. Did you consider that when you voted NO ? ” says I

    “Aye but who said an iScotland would have free prescriptions?” He retorts
    FFS ,
    He is literally getting fed for free but has a lovinn with WM !

    Honest t God ! Heeeelp !

    I’m a Winger & a Yesser get me outta here !

    Nae winner a wurk 24 effin 7 some folk wid drive ye t drink!

  423. louis.b.argyll says:

    If, the Scottish Government decided to legally challenge the concept of the Barnett Formula as ‘creating non-transparency between two nations’..

    ..with the UK Treasury’s and Inland Revenue’s books being threatened with a public airing..

    Would they abolish or punish Scotland?

    Is that the reason for Brexit?

    We’ll have less European and International laws to PROTECT US and OUR LAWS from greedy ukip-tories in just two years.



  424. Cactus says:

    Can you imagine the headlines in the new Scottish media in say.. just 10 years..

    (and that’s because we’ll be well where we want to be by then)

    With less of the personal attack headlines, it will be:

    *Scotland discovers..
    *Scotland invents..
    *Scotland helps..
    *Scotland cures..
    *Scotland wins.. again!

    See you in 2027 free people.

  425. louis.b.argyll says:

    Robert Peffers, Robert Kerr’s link..shows the euro-sat-view.

    This is their ‘excuse’. It suits their purpose. Even so, they further shrink the North of Scotland, so much that the word Stornoway covers about eight hundred square miles!

  426. Meg merrilees says:

    Galamcennalath @7.43

    thank you – no offence taken. I was more concerned that Fred’s comment might suggest he finds it ‘offensive’ to have N. Ireland described as a Province when that is the official WM description submitted to the UN.

  427. Robert Kerr says:


    Just to cap it all have a look at the satellite weather image from Eumetsat published by the Irish Republic’s Met Eireann and source acknowledged.

    The distortion has been removed!

  428. Nana says:


    Truthfully, I have never been in a betting shop and would not have a clue what to do there.

    But here are the latest odds on indyref2

  429. louis.b.argyll says:

    There’s me, making up odds and other bollocks, and ‘boof’..
    Nana drops me a link..thanks.
    I’ll keep my 5/2 then..

  430. Meg merrilees says:

    Re ignorance of Southern British:

    Pre Sep 2014 I was asked by an older (early 70’s y old) London friend why Scotland wanted Independence. This man had worked all his life in the RAF.

    I asked him if he realised that Scotland was a separate country from England and his emphatic reply was:
    ” What? That’s nonsense everyone knows Scotland is a part of England!” He was unshakeable in this belief…
    I decided that there wasn’t much point in trying to explain things to him.

    Yip, I reckon there’s a lot of ignorance out there.

    On a lighter note, I read that the WM Gov is privately concerned that the Supreme Court is going to find in favour of the High Court and against the Gov on the triggering by Royal Prerog of Art 50. Maybe that ‘rumour’ has had a bearing on Nicola’s recent comment re Indy ref 2. Also T May will give a Brexit speech next week…

    The clock is moving on…

  431. Robert Louis says:

    I’m afraid I agree with the others here, rather than R.Peffers, regarding the BBC weather maps. Of course, ‘they say’ the distorted view which belittles Scotland is due to the satellite images, but as others here have shown, that is simply not the case.

    Having watched weather forecasts in many other European and other countries around the world, I can assure you the way in which the BBC tilts the image to make Scotland look tiny, is quite, quite unique. In fact, in reality it makes it virtually impossible to ascertain just where the weather is in Scotland, as it is so distorted and small. No other country would do such a thing, but then why would they belittle their own country?

    We must always remember that for the BBC, their country is England. Always is, always has been.

    So, here’s my challenge to the BBC, if you really, really want to PROVE to Scots that you are not in the business of deceiving them, change the BBC weather maps, so they show Scotland in correct scale and dimensions, instead of this useless tilted shrunken nonsense, which makes England look bigger than it is, and Scotland look tiny.

    Their are many graphical processes and satellite images available. Your excuses are just tosh. No other broadcaster in the world does it.

    Right here, and now I could bet they simply will not change it. The BBC, as puppets of London colonial rule, like Scots AND the English to carry on thinking Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid.

    The BBC, paid Liars to Scotland. You might call them ‘broadcasting whores’.

  432. Lenny Hartley says:

    Robert Louis re BBC Weather Map, I seem to remember it was around the time that first Indy referendum was announced that the BBC made Scotland look wee. Co-incidence I think not. Regarding Satellite there is a website that you can track them on.

  433. bjsalba says:

    @Gary45% at 5.54
    Perth Australia has underwater turbines. CETO system by Carnegie Wave Energy. Includes running a desalination plant but I reckon we wouldn’t need that.

  434. Nana says:

    Unionists will not be happy when they see tomorrow’s national front page.

  435. Col says:

    Lenny, remember also the BBC in Scotland (only) shut down comments on its online content when it was clear a referendum would take place. Our voices were silenced in time for our great debate. They truly make me sick!

  436. Cactus says:

    I urge a surge in support of independence.


  437. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    Unionists will not be happy when they see tomorrow’s national front page.

    Excellent! May be just one guy’s opinion, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if the EU was extremely helpful to Scotland.

    After all, we are the ‘good guys’ who want to stay part of the EU. I expect them to be sympathetic.

    I do hope we go into IndyRef2 with this being official EU policy. Worth a good few percent, I would say.

  438. Andrew Mclean says:

    Oh for goodness sake, now I have to tour supermarkets just to put the national face up on top of the more prominent places.

  439. yesindyref2 says:

    Thanks for that. I guess most of us knoew the first part about Scotland staying in the EU, but the most imporatnat thing is that “Nicola Sturgeon could be given extra time to set up a new country if required“.

    Bit if a pain for us, if this can be strengthened as an opinion it means waiting until the Brexit negotiations are over in 18 months becomes a possible date – autumn 2019. And then 3 years if neccessary to get Independence.

    Boo hoo, 5 years from now. Hope I don’t pop my clogs meantime!

  440. Lenny Hartley says:

    FFS they are getting worse Disreporting Scotland news now claiming that the First Minister was claiming that the delays to the Trauma centre would cost lives, then South loving Sally corrects herself and says she wasn’t claiming but under fire for it, So BBC stating that Nicola is responsible for people dying due to the rescheduling of the improvements of the Trauma centres. If I was the Scottish Government I would sue for defamation.

  441. Still Positive. says:

    Nana @ 9.59

    That’s a cracker of a front page from The National.

  442. galamcennalath says:

    Can someone confirm my understanding of the Brexit timetable?

    1 Article 50
    2 ‘divorce settlement’ agreed within two years
    3 leave the EU

    4 However, there needs to be a trade agreement negotiated. Some say 6-8 years. Brexiteers naively say this can be done on parallel with ‘divorce’ within two years.

    2.5 Final trade deal won’t be before leaving, so there could be an interim agreement negotiated to go from leave point to final trade settlement.


    Also, does that mean there are three possibly points of negotiation collapse…

    ‘Divorce settlement’ can’t be agreed
    No interim trade deal agreed
    No long term trade deal agreed

    … ?

  443. ed t head says:

    I can’t see how Scotland couldn’t fail as a country, if the support for Indy is the same as 2014 the torrent of misinformation has had little impact. Brexit should add more support. I have friends in England who support Indy, I confess to being born in England but north of the tweed so it’s not that bad. So if Indy 2 is in 2019 brexit will have pushed more to Indy unless WM has caused such a mess it gives Indy by the back door. I hope Craig Murrys bit on the 6000 square mile WM grab of Scotland’s sea is sorted out check out his video it shows how labour shafted Scotland .

  444. galamcennalath says:


    I’m asking if my timetable understanding is correct because it may make sense of why some want very hard Brexit.

    They want 1-2-3 then move to WTO rules. Simple. No trade agreement with the EU. Minimal negotiations. But not a ‘dirty’ walk away from the ‘divorce’ bit.

    Also scary!

  445. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi ed t head. You typed at 10:38 pm

    “I can’t see how Scotland couldn’t fail as a country, if the support for Indy is the same as 2014”

    Going by the rest of your comment, I think you meant to type “I can’t see how Scotland COULD fail as a country”

    Never mind, we all commit typo’s now and again!


  446. Legerwood says:

    You have to read this but don’t have any hit drinks in your hand when you do.

    BBC setting up a unit to expose fake news!

    Sorry can’t archive.

  447. Chick McGregor says:

    heedtracker, Robert 8.01pm

    I pointed out that when Robert thought the distortion was due to using a geostationary satellite, that this was not correct.

    That the typical view point chosen by the BBC is approximately 250 km South of the UK. This is NOT a geostationary position.

    And in any rate, wherever the picture is taken it is a matter of routine to correct for it.

    And in regard to accurate weather reporting it makes no sense whatsoever to use a distorted map.

  448. Nana says:


    Some info here on the difference between hard and soft brexit

    I saw a tweet earlier today saying it was looking like the city have been told to prepare for a hard brexit.

    Found this a few moments ago

  449. yesindyref2 says:

    He’s a very good speaker, Pat Kane, was just on Scotland Tonight.

  450. galamcennalath says:


    Thanks. Interesting, but it seems to take the standard Tory line that lots could be agreed within the two years.

    Whereas, I am starting to get the distinction impression the two years will just be spent on ‘divorce’ – how much is owed to cover pensions, outstanding projects etc etc. There seems to be no obligation to settle much on trade, although it could be. But it might not be.

  451. heedtracker says:

    Chick McGregor says:
    12 January, 2017 at 10:51 pm
    heedtracker, Robert 8.01pm

    I pointed out that when Robert thought the distortion was due to using a geostationary satellite, that this was not correct.”

    Its just another cheap n easy slight on Scots like you and me Chick. BBC England have done this kind of sneaky creepy stuff for decades.

    Bitter irony of impending UK doom, they wont have to bother trying to make half the British isles look as puny as possible, sooner rather than later. They can pretend their satellites somewhere over Timbuktu for all Scots will care.

    To be fair, BBC is not run by saints. They’re mostly tory and just as proud English nat as anyone else in England, if not more so. This whole Scotland being taken from them, really gets up quite a lot of English noses, red and blue tory. Its probably one of their more sophisticated UKOK tropes, that’s its just a few vile seps what are stealing their country.

    It was only Alex Salmond all the way up to 2014 but its kind of hard to go after him alone now, what with democracy kicking in, as it has lately.

  452. heedtracker says:

    Is it a bit chilly tonight Scotland:D

    Rancid The Graun’s almost always empty Scotland region section news tonight,

    “Coastal village in Essex evacuated as wintry weather grips UK
    Residents in Jaywick asked to leave their homes after Environment Agency warns of flooding caused by rain and strong winds

    A man walks a dog in the snowy grounds of Braco Castle, Perthshire, on Thursday morning.
    A man walks a dog in the snowy grounds of Braco Castle, Perthshire, on Thursday morning. Photograph: Andrew Milligan/PA

    Thursday 12 January 2017 15.54 GMT

    Only the UKOK media Britnats can use the weather, for their imperial master baiter stuff, 2017.

  453. ed t head says:

    Hi Brian fing computer spellcheck

  454. Graf Midgehunter says:

    @ Robert Peffers

    Hallo Robert. Yes I am very much aquainted with how much a globe is distorted from an orbit but the bbc, as pointed out by others, has distorted the view out of all proportions for reasons that can only be described as malice.

    Scotland, in particular the Northwest and islands, are badly in need of weather info where the weather can change from sunny to heavy storms inside of 24 hrs. There are hundreds of miles of lonely roads where you don’t want to be caught out on without protection.

    Families need to pick-up members, fill-up, get stores in, Ferry services, transport logistics etc, etc. Weather info is vital. The West coast needs different info than the East or the Borders.

    Scotland looks about the size of a pickle on England’s bum, a couple of numbers blots out most of Scotland.

    The rest of the world or ITV etc. doesn’t do this so why does the Beeb do it?

    Cos the BBC are a f********** bunch of malicious B******* who don’t give a f******* toss about foisting that propaganda s**t on us (spit – gurgle – spit)

  455. ed t head says:

    The bbc know best but by f*** they don’t realise how stupid they are nearly as bad as sky with a report from north Britain followed by a report from NE england shouldn’t have been north midlands, is France south England?

  456. bjsalba says:


    I recommend BREXIT What the hell happens now? by Ian Dunt. It doesn’t tell you everything but it is a start.

  457. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi ed t head.

    Switch off “auto-correct”! I never use it. On my Android phone, I allow suggestions but it only takes the time to read each word to make sure I’m making sense. I rarely have to use the suggestions.

    Onnyhoo, nice to see another username appearing. What’s your story?

  458. Graf Midgehunter says:

    PS to my last post.

    I live not far away from ESA. The European Space Agency in Darmstadt.

    I’ve been there many times incl. a weather sat take-off bout 10 yrs ago. (Sheeeesh..!)

    See that then you know why the beeb is a f**………..

  459. Capella says:

    re distorted weather maps – I’m surprised the BBC haven’t stuck a Union Jack over the Scotland region. Something to be grateful for North Britishers?

  460. Cadogan Enright says:

    Legerwood says:12 January, 2017 at 10:46 pm
    You have to read this but don’t have any hit drinks in your hand when you do. BBC setting up a unit to expose fake news!



  461. Ed t head says:

    Hi Brian moved up to the NE (Scotland ) fron the NE in the 1983 worked in Cambridge in the late 1990’s called a sweaty sock so turned to the snp supported them up to the ref then joined I know a bit late but better late than never and now support Indy as how can we f up worse than WM.(still trying to kill spell check!)

  462. heedtracker says:


    BBC Breakfast show even turned Nic Sturgeon into a gorilla, a British gorilla!

    Oh how they larf. Although, again to be fair, the whole of the UKOK media creep show do manage to find very unflattering photos of anyone not a loyal Scot Brit tory. They used to make poor old Gordon Brown insane but even he gets nice photos these days.

  463. crazycat says:

    @ heedtracker at 11.23 and Capella at midnight

    I also noticed that the Guardian’s article about Essex was accompanied by a picture of Perthshire (there was a sentence or two about Scotland further down the text), but what especially annoyed me was another picture illustrating a similar article on the BBC website:

    “Snow” – looked more like sleet – on Tower Bridge, with one pedestrian, conveniently in the foreground, sheltering under an enormous Union Jack umbrella. They just can’t resist it.

  464. Meg merrilees says:

    For all that some people on this site don’t trust the National – at least they do good front pages which are getting the message out.

    Brilliant one for today and that will look good on the stands, so long as we all get out there and make sure they’re not being tucked away under other newspapers.

    Wonder what the ‘good shoppers’ in Waitrose will make of things later today – can’t wait to get in there. Only visit to make sure the paper is clearly visible – now that they stock it!

  465. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi ed t head.

    Check out ‘off-topic’ for the Wingers’ social clubbie.


  466. Ian Mackay says:

    The BBC uses a 43 degrees tilted south angled projection for its map of the UK. That exaggerates the southern most part of the UK i.e England and especially its southern coast.

    This ‘south-angled’ view thus shows the UK getting progressively smaller as you go north.

    As a large amount of the UK’s population is based in the south of England this does cater for that demographic.

    Yet it does nothing for those that live in the north of the country.

    The mainland island of Shetland is 50 miles long. That’s the same distance as Glasgow to Edinburgh. Sure doesn’t look like that on the BBC maps, does it! The BBC are just promoting geographical propaganda by downplaying the North and broadcasting ignorance to the public.

    You can with Google Earth, if you wish, style a BBC style map putting the north of the UK first. Simply put in a 43 degree north-angled projection from any point, say John O’ Groats, and generate the map. The south of England will look a far bit smaller and Scotland will be exaggerated.

    No need to ask if those in the south of England would be happy with that map! To see ourselves as others see us, indeed.

  467. Chick McGregor says:

    You know, I just thought exactly the same thing this morning. Not because today’s front page was better than usual but when I went into their archive page to reload todays I happened to notice past front pages.

    Whoever does it does a great job, best front pages in Scotland.

  468. heedtracker says:

    crazycat says:
    13 January, 2017 at 12:22 am
    @ heedtracker at 11.23 and Capella at midnight

    If it looks like professional trolling, it probably is.

  469. Ed t head says:

    Checked it out looks good I have friends in eupoe who will be back mid 2019 and ar yes so hope it’s sep 2019 the more the toons shout the less its making sense . Brexit is red white and blue ( and smells of poo) childish but it was from a 10 year old.

  470. Chick McGregor says:

    Ian Mackay

    In the referenced past post above there is a link to exactly such an exercise. See below:

    I’m sure the Home Counties brigade would be perfectly happy with that. Provided, of course, their view is not obscured by the flying pigs.

  471. Capella says:

    Ah yes. Nicola the gorilla. So amusing. We did all laugh. Just another technical glitch. These gremlins are everywhere.

    And now. The weather from North Britain. It’s cold and snowy but not as bad as it could be. It is January.

    Stay warm cybernats.

  472. Meg merrilees says:

    Chick @12.39

    I’m referring to this front page for friday, as linked by Nana earlier…

  473. Robert Kerr says:

    @Graf Midgehunter


    The circle is squared.

    Eumetsat HQ

    Lets all go with this.

    BBC are bar stewards. Scotland is too WEEEEEEE. The weather forecast that you all trust shows you how wee we are.

    This is beyond amusing!

  474. Capella says:

    @crazycat – yes the giant UJ umbrella – the BBC seem to have a gallery of giant UJ umbrella pics with iconic Central London backgrounds.

    I also like their pictures of snow-bound Britain. You can see tufts of grass poking up through the 2 cms of snow.
    Britain grinds to a halt.

  475. Chick McGregor says:

    Thaks Meg.

    Ceratainly one of their more important politically, but the compositional artistic standard is generally exceptionally high.

    BTW made a lengthy reply to a question you asked previously but got lost in the ether.

    To make it very very short.

    The oil companies are entirely responsible for decommissioning cost.
    However UK is responsible for associated tax relief and possible historical tax refunds.
    An independent Scotland would, at worse, inherit a pro rata share of that historical tax relief liability.

  476. heedtracker says:

    FT Magazine
    The problem with English
    ‘Foreign countries are opaque to mostly monolingual Britons and Americans. Foreigners know us much better than we know them’
    Simon Kuper

    “Chinese and Russian elites sent their children to study in the US and UK. From 1990 through to about 2010, British and American media and films gained unprecedented global influence.

    In this period, the asymmetry of knowledge between English-speaking countries and their rivals became extreme. “There are now several million Russian citizens who are essentially bilingual and intimately acquainted with anglo societies,” says Ricardo Soares de Oliveira, political scientist at Oxford university. By contrast, most anglos stopped bothering to learn foreign languages.”

    Another great to reason to learn Scots Gaelic. Should keep Russian hackers busy at least.

  477. Still Positive. says:

    Just watched a great interview between Mike Russell and Richard Walker on youtube. Sorry can’t do links but the title is ‘Mike Russell on Scotland’s place in Europe.’ 25 mins long but well worth a watch.

  478. Chick McGregor says:

    “Another great to reason to learn Scots Gaelic. Should keep Russian hackers busy at least.”

    A ploy used in WWII where Gaelic was used in ship convoys to confuse German interceptors.

    Paradoxically, a Russian Zsar was taught at least some Gaelic by his Scottish nanny.

  479. Chick McGregor says:

    Still Positive

    Will watch tomorrow. Bedtime.

  480. Still Positive. says:

    heedtracker @ 1.19 am

    Considering learning Gaelic in the autumn. Learning a language when you are older helps cognitive function.

    And since I am older and want to avoid dementia sounds like a good idea, especially as I have 2 years of French language and literature in my degree gained as a mature student.

  481. schrodingers cat says:

    Another great to reason to learn Scots Gaelic. Should keep Russian hackers busy at least.

    multilingualism starts with bilingualism

  482. Meg merrilees says:

    Thanks Chick.. always amazes me that on this website there is usually someone who knows the correct answer to others’ questions!
    A great resource.

    Capella @ 1.02 am

    There was a much vaunted photo last week of a NY cop cycling along a ‘snow-bound’ street in the face of an oncoming blizzard… but you could see the double yellow lines at the side of said street. Snow-bound???

    Great picture of the Auld Brig at Stirling on the front page of The Times this morning (friday) in proper heavy snow – we did have a reasonable amount especially this morning.
    I lived in the London area for 37 years and it never ceased to baffle/frustrate me how a teeny amount of snow could bring EVERYTHING to a halt – trains, roads, work, tube trains. We got snow most years in the Chilterns and because the town I lived in was in a steep valley we were effectively cut off for a few days if there was moderate fall. Nothing could get in or out by rail or road. Most folk couldn’t get out to work and the schools were shut so many families headed to the park and had great fun sledging, made all the more enjoyable by the feeling of escaping from work for a day.

    I lived in a small, friendly street and one year in particular it snowed then froze for over a week. Our road was never gritted so a few of the menfolk decided it was time to clear the snow off the slope. It ended up with a whole lot of us out in the street bringing out teas/ coffees/brandy (adults only)/mince pies etc for the workers and kids sledging on the pavements.

    Funny thing is though, once the snow melted they all went back to ‘not speaking to your neighbour’ as is their wont ‘down south’ … Strange place.

  483. Meg merrilees says:

    Here’s an interesting fact –

    We have 78 MEPs.

    There have been 29 occasions since 2013 when an MEP has appeared on BBC QT.
    One of those was a Conservative, the other 28 were UKIP!!!

    A 100% anti-EU bias.

    Do you read ‘Wings’ Donalda?

  484. heedtracker says:

    I love Gaelic too everyone. Its such a beautiful language, spoken, poetry and especially song. And its massive abroad, which ofcourse, we never hear about, in the Scotland region, cant have the natives all riled up with their own non anglo saxon tongue. We all know the BBC drill. Gaelic speakers even have a lovely English accents too. Its really popular in Germany, linguistics and culture, that and the Irish variant. Why cant Gaelic speakers read the 6 o’clock news instead of usual Glesga private school poshos, so beloved of merry olde Landan, is also not a surprise:D

  485. Meg merrilees says:
    Watch this for a reminder of what QT used to be.

    Heedtracker @3.05am I started learning Gaelic last year – only study it in the winter when the nights are long – guess I’ll take a while to learn at this rate. Find the spelling quite hard!
    A YES activist I campaigned with in 2014 is German and has a degree (from Edinburgh Uni?) in Gaelic and Mediaeval Scottish History. She also speaks Japanese.

  486. Liz g says:

    Meg Merrilees @ 3.17
    Where are you learning Gaelic from Meg?
    I have looked at a few of the learning resources on line but I am struggling to choose… I would be greatful for any tips or recommendations?

  487. James Powell says:

    Independence is the beginning of us participating in maintaining that center, it is not the answer to all our problems and should not be viewed as such, but neither is it a vehicle for extreme elements to capitalize on. Thanks

  488. Breeks says:

    Have to confess I’m a little curious about the sovereign nature of a province. I’ve seen one definition of province as an administrative division of a country. For NI, doesn’t that imply the country is Ireland, and doesn’t that in turn Irish sovereignty, like Scottish, is only held in abeyance by democratic opinion and majority?
    I don’t believe that situation is legally competent in Scotland, though most people seem content to let it stand, but I wonder how the Irish define their sovereignty that allows itself to be made a province.

    It is pretty pathetic how the BBC needs to distort Scotland, even on a map, but it’s nothing new. I had an aunt, now dead sadly, who pointed out that Britain was always enlarged in European maps/diagrams to make it look more impressive. She died 20 years ago, so the UK Ministry of Truth has been at it for decades, slipping wee distortions into your drinks.

    You can perhaps forgive cartographers tweaking the size of a country when using a map to convey information as a diagram rather than strict geographical representation, but since the introduction of satellite pictures, it seems bizarre to keep doing it.

    For all its might in history, Britain has always been cursed with a very insecure, “mine is bigger than yours” inadequacy and neurotic perception of the world. They would choose to believe a flattering lie over an uncomfortable reality every time. Hence their affection for Auntie BBC; the panacea to all bad news which might make Britain feel guilty or inadequate.

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