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Wings Over Scotland


Here come the drums

Posted on August 21, 2016 by

Today’s Sunday Times didn’t bother with any subtlety in its signalling of how people should expect the Scottish media to handle next week’s GERS figures.

stgers

So we’ll just leave these here:

The limitations of GERS

The five key facts about GERS

The wishful believers

Gazing into the black hole

There’ll be nothing but repeats of all last year’s articles in the papers, so there doesn’t seem to be much point in re-writing all the rebuttals. We’d advise readers not to expect to hear any of the facts or arguments in any of the above articles aired on TV or radio discussions of the new figures either. For the sake of your blood pressure, it’s probably best to stick to old QI repeats on Dave for the next eight days.

After all, Unionists have been repeating the same “too wee, too poor” scare stories at any country seeking independence from the UK for hundreds of years:

Why would they stop now?

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  1. 24 08 16 14:37

    We Need To Talk About: GERS (2015-16 Edition) | The Common Green

264 to “Here come the drums”

  1. Totally agree with you rev, we have heard it all before.
    Let them print their nonsense it will have little or no effect on free_thinking people.

  2. Changeless as canal water

  3. Croompenstein says:

    It’s gonna be Yoon Def-Con 5 alien invasion imminent 🙂

  4. Alex Clark says:

    “Here comes the drums”

    No doubt there will be flutes and whistles too. Don’t know about your blood pressure REV but mine is off the scale.

    I just want my country back from the lying fuckers that have stolen it. No more will we bow and scrape. Let them know.

    They don’t like it one bit.

  5. HandandShrimp says:

    It does show that although no date has been set, we are in a full blown Indyref2 with Project Fear already in overdrive.

    The signs for a second referendum are looking good. 🙂

  6. Grouse Beater says:

    The only intelligent reading of the current upsurge in fabricated anti-SNP, anti-self-determination propaganda, is our tormentors perceive enthusiasm for independence is rising, pushed on by the betrayal and disaster that is Brexit. And that confirms they are very anxious. Good.

    Let’s keep the lying bastards reeling.

    Your weekend reading

    An independent film industry: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-8Fx
    A film of independent mind: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-8IZ

  7. mike cassidy says:

    We are not alone!

    http://archive.is/tD338

    Anybody know what England’s deficit is?

    Not the UK’s — England’s

  8. MochaChoca says:

    See page 43 of this ONS report. Read along with the rest of the report it makes a mockery of the GERs figures, and that’s despite the slump in oil price.

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/business/businessservices/bulletins/uknonfinancialbusinesseconomy/2014regionalresultsannualbusinesssurvey/pdf

  9. Proud Cybernat says:

    On topic…

    The real picture of Scotland’s accounts:

    http://imgur.com/a/tNgxA

  10. Stoker says:

    Anyone any idea what percentage of the “Scottish” market The Sunday Times has?

    I also note the content of the wee rectangle in the bottom left-hand corner which states: “Campaign group Scotland in Union said Scotland’s deficit is likely to be even greater than the £15bn reported for 2014-15” ANDY BUCHANAN

    Campaign group Scotland in Union? They’ve as much credibility as a ten-bob note and who the hell is “Andy Buchanan” when he’s at home?

    Lying lickspittal chancers!

  11. peter says:

    If the last squirt o oil out of the North sea, happens today, and RBS unscrew there sh**y brass plate, and all the whisky leaked from every barrel and went down the drain. ( I WOULD STILL VOTE “YES” ) you can’t put a price on Independence.

  12. heedtracker says:

    Project Fear 2. Wonder what Charles Inglis, Pennsylvania, would make of not Scottish oil and gas, invested in England, leaving Scots in debt.

  13. Bob Mack says:

    I remember starting out on life as a young man who had just married, and finding that buying a house ,furnishing it and paying all the bills and starting a family seemed beyond my income. As time passed I earned promotions and boosted my income,paid off debts and loans and became quite comfortable money wise.

    It will be the same with Scotland. We enter into the search for independence knowing we will have to grow and develop. We know nothing of our true earnings ,compiled for us as they are, by a State determined to convince us they are insufficient for us to branch out on our own.

    I did it as a young man ,probably the same as many posters on here. My country will do no less.

  14. galamcennalath says:

    GERS seems like a case FOR Indy. It highlights how badly Scotland has been run by WM!

    Compare not just with Norway, but all her small near neighbours. And what is the difference been their success and our poorer performance? They all have full control over their economies.

    Compare like with like and why are we lagging? Because we have been ripped off and run for the benefit of London.

  15. msean says:

    Remember the GERS were invented by a tory secretary of state for Scotland to make Scotlands economy look bad. The GERS are a political tool only in my view.

    Don’t know if anybody ever improved their economy by allowing someone else who can out vote them to run it.

  16. Effijy says:

    I think we come back to having a real need for a Bill Board
    or newspaper advert to show the Truth behind the corrupt
    economic figures created for an equally corrupt Westminster
    that needs to hold on to Scotland’s wealth for survival.

    Headlines:

    Scotland has never been allowed to borrow money!
    All so called debt has been generated by a series of incompetent and biased Westminster governments on Scotland’s behalf, with very large sums of Scotland’s “debt” being spent on England’s infrastructure.

    The most successful country within the EU, by means of economic recovery, is the Republic of Ireland.

    They broke away from Westminster Corruption and have never looked back.

    They have never had Oil revenue in the past, they do not have it now, and there is no prospect of it in future.

    Ireland are a smaller nation than Scotland and yet we are supposed to believe that small nations cannot be successful?

    Why then was the Celtic Boom years greater than the UK’s?

    Why is their recovery from recession greater than so called “Great” Britons?

    Why are Ireland’s pensioners better off than the UK’s.

    Wake up to the lies and deceit that is the Westminster Government and their media partners!

  17. Alex Clark says:

    Well said peter. That’s exactly how I feel, now let’s bang those drums!

    Get out there into the streets and just say what you’ve already said.

    No! There is no box big enough to hold us back and the’re terrified hahaha They can feck right off. Do you think the press are worried LOL.

  18. JLT says:

    Though frustrating and angering as it is, that the same scare, fear and horror stories are continually rolled out on a daily basis, there is one aspect that should be realised as a fact – the Establishment of Westminster are not only worried at the continued failure in defeating the idea of independence in Scotland …it also terrifies them that this is a battle that they really will lose.

    On a daily basis, their mantra of repeating the ‘too poor, too wee, too stupid’ is not having the effect that it should. Frustratingly for the Establishment, every time that they believe that they may have had some success in promoting their culture of disinformation and fear, something else happens that seems to ridicule their position. The worst thing that could happen was Brexit. A political situation that they have no real control over. Brexit has become the monster of their own making; their own personal Frankenstein. The beast that won’t die …and it is just beginning to dawn on them that they night not be in control of their own destiny.

    You may have noticed in the papers over the last few days that some analysts are stating that Brexit hasn’t been that bad; even in fact, been a benefit for the country as spouted out in a column by Larry Elliot in the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/20/brexit-eu-referendum-economy-project-fear).

    But Brexit is now a form of Chess. Though Elliot might state that the economy is fine, the other pieces on the board are in key positions that tell us otherwise.

    Firstly, Theresa May is bricking it over Article 50. She made a promise to the Tories as well as to the electorate that she would invoke Article 50. The basis of that promise hinted that it would be made immediately. Two months down the line, nothing has been implemented. Theresa talks of next year, maybe 2019. Well, that is just fantasy. Her own party is demanding that it be invoked soon (David Davies), and 17.4 million of the electorate won’t stand for it either.

    Secondly, the EU will increase their demand, as well as the pressure, that Theresa invokes Article 50. For Theresa, this is a Catch 22. If she finally does invoke Article 50, then all hell breaks loose in Britain. Larry Elliot’s fantasy of a stabilised economy will collapse overnight as Sterling bombs, the markets tumble, foreign investment dries up, businesses batten down the hatches, unemployment goes up, living standards fall. The UK will tumble further down the table in the list of the world’s richest nations.

    But also, this nonsense that the UK might never leave. Let’s say that the House of Lords refuse to enact on the Brexit result …what then? Well, first off …the EU will be in a fury with the UK and they will punish them. If Britain wants to remain part of the EU, then all those special privileges that Britain obtained from the EU over the last couple of decades will be torn up. The special status that the UK has developed will end. It will be told that it is now like every other European country. When the Brexiteers realise that the EU will impose certain rules on the UK that apply to all other EU nations, then the vicious circle starts again; Brexiteers will demand out immediately. Theresa in simple terms, cannot win either way.

    And that is where we are right now; in a phoney war where we are still in the EU; still trading in the EU; still travelling freely to the EU. But sooner or later, the pressure will mount on Theresa to fulfil her promise to not only the electorate, but also to many in her party. But whatever the result or decision chosen …there will be serious ramifications for Westminster. And for Scotland’s nationalists, we just need to be patient and wait for that day when Theresa has to choose. We just have to be patient. Watch …and wait…

  19. Clapper57 says:

    So voting ‘No’ and leaning on the ‘broad shoulders’ of the UK isn’t really working then. Is that the point of the article ? Because we were promised a ‘No’ vote would be the best economic alternative for Scots. So what has gone wrong ?

    Perhaps I am being naive but is this doom and gloom scenario not what was predicted had we voted ‘yes’ ?

    As Unionists react with glee at what they try to portray as the Scottish government mismanagement (omitting the real story that this is under the financial constrains of a UK right wing Scrooge government) do they not stop to consider this is under the UK watch.

    If they seek to consistently misreport and cook the books then perhaps they should be reminded that it is THEY who said we were Better Together…..so why report that it look as if we are NOT.

    If anything reading their take on what is happening it is looking very much as if we have nothing to lose being independent.

    Let’s not even start on the UK deficit…. now that would be a record deficit worth mentioning in a headline…..and let’s also not mention that the Tories have now decided to abandon the 2020 target for reducing UK deficit target…..and all thanks to the Tories great escape in the form of Brexit.

    The f**king clown circus that is laughingly called the media….propaganda machine dictating the news accordingly in this Unionist one party state.

  20. Camz says:

    @ mike cassidy

    “Anybody know what England’s deficit is?”

    “Not the UK’s — England’s”

    Strange. When I google for England’s deficit, I get the UK’s deficit. Funny old world. We can find the deficits of all the ‘little’ countries of the union, but not the one of the country that’s carrying all the political majorities.

  21. Stoker says:

    @ Peter (11:43am)

    Well said Peter, ditto!
    _____

    heedtracker wrote @11:43am: “Project Fear 2…..”

    There is no such thing as Project Fear 1..2..3 or whatever.
    Project Fear, Smear, lie and deceive is a constant ongoing 24/7 BUM operation which gets cranked up at important opportune times. They’ve been practicing this operation for as long as we’ve had BUM media.

  22. John Walsh says:

    Your description of trying to tell the truth to the masses sounds repetitively familiar.
    Don’t give up, the truth needs all the help it can get these days.

  23. I believe that it was Macart who dubbed the ‘leader’ of the Lib Dems ‘thingy’.
    Mrs Thingy will be steam pressing his polyester suit as I type, and he’ll feature on Monday’s BBC News Where We Are tomorrow telling the world what a shitty little financial subsidy junky basket case Scotland is, was, and always will be.
    JaBa the But will trundle over the horizon, abacus at the ready, confirming that if it wasn’t for the magnanimous bountiful Tory Government, and our patient and understanding English neighbours, we’d all sheltering in caves in the Old Kilpatrick Hills, and supping dandelion soup and chewing marsh grass bread for sustenance.
    Ruth will mount one of the kelpies, wave a copy of the GERS report aloft, while grinning like a giddy Head Girl for the press pack, hailing GERS as ‘good news’. or rather tissue of lies, that her native land is basically the only nation in the developed world that has nae money.
    Is Kezia still on holiday, or is she hiding under the table until Corbyn comes and goes Up Here?

    Thanks, Stu for reprising previous articles on this GERS nonsense.

    Most UK companies, supermarkets, and so on, refuse to provide revenue figures for their Scottish branches, and their Scots income is merely excluded from the ‘R’ element of GERS; and HMRC lie, by stating that they cannot provide Revenue stats for Scotland by post code batch download , so a ‘guesstimate’ is provided by Whitehall instead.
    And Yes, Scots produce, shipped from English docks are not considered Scottish revenue. Gers is a political wheeze, meaningless, and a mechanism calculated to show our vastly wealthy country as a Third World English dependency.
    Scotland’s Unionist MSM will be out in force this week, rubbishing their home land.
    Meanwhile out tax dollars paid over £5 million per gold medal at the feckin’ never ending Olympics.And in 2 weeks time, some wee blonde lassie who came third in a race, will be selling shampoo, or appearing on the Great British (add pointless theme here) on BBC, stifling laughter until she is on the way to the bank.
    It is an absolute must that the YES campaign undertake considerable work on Scotland’s real income and expenditure, prior to Indyref 2; otherwise this sort of shite will be presented gleefully by the Better Together mob as proof that we are in Handout Hell Up Here,and given credence by compliant media, as gospel.
    What will the Beeb do now that the Olympics is drawing to a close?
    More ‘Great British’ shite, no doubt.
    It must be weeks since they had a piece glorifying war and senseless slaughter of the working classes.
    Surely there’s an anniversary of some meaningless slaughter coming up?
    And in other news, voles have been reintroduced into rivers in Yorkshire.
    No , really.

  24. Housty45 says:

    Drawing attention to a deficit the UK created for us, looking at the current figures perhaps seams clever. This only draws attention to the fact that Scotland breaks even without Oil revenues or our share of the U.K. National debt. Therefore given that we get a share of Assests and Liabilities, Scotland should release funds from the one to greatly reduce the other.

  25. galamcennalath says:

    peter says

    “you can’t put a price on Independence”

    That is my bottom line too. And, I suspect many on here feel the same.

    For me it isn’t about money, though I have no doubt Scotland is economically sound. It is about democracy, people first, fairness in society, accountable government, respect in the world, a force for good, policies made by folk like us for ourselves. Compared to what we currently have (more correctly, don’t have), that seems an enormous step forward.

  26. Artyhetty says:

    Most people have never heard of GERS. Let’s try an experiment and ask friends and family, the shop keeper, anyone, what gers is.

    The headlines will have the desired effect nevertheless, it looks official, and confirms to the less discerning, that independence would have been a disaster. This is all orchestrated on the back of brexit, the ploy being to paint Scotland as an economic basket case, so that the less discerning will accept brexit as being the least damaging option for Scotland, or rather, their bank accounts and pensions.

    Taken out of the EU, no human rights, snoopers charter, Scotland still shackled to westmonster, London siphoning off Scotland’s resources while leaving it a wasteland, quite frankly it could hardly be a worse case scenario.

    If people, ie blinkered no voters do not get this into their thick skulls and soon, their
    country/adopted country, will not be worth living in. Then again, how many of them can afford to jump ship I wonder.

  27. MR J B GARDNER says:

    Could it be that the unionists are going to bore Scottish voters into a canny be bothered any more mood about Independence.

    Aye that’ll be right, Scots are more politically informed than ever before thanks to the internet.

    Roll on September, turnout and join in and show these yoons our strength and total commitment to Independence and Freedom.

  28. Dr Jim says:

    So let me understand this correctly

    When they said America was broke and couldn’t survive without GB they were LYING?!

    That’s shocking behaviour from team GB there, why on earth would they say things like that when they’re not true, were they trying to undermine that country? what possible excuse did they give for doing it?

    Have team GB.Guv ever apologised to The United States of America for this attempt to deceive its people

    Yoon history, Aye we did dae that but that wiz then and we widnae dae it noo (honest) this is the real truth, it is, naw, it is!! The figures say so, they dae, they dae!

  29. heedtracker says:

    Nothing from Kevrage yet, his little tory heart must be pounding away for the UK though.

    https://twitter.com/kevverage

  30. Auld Rock says:

    Hi Effijy,but sorry you are wrong about Ireland, they have Atlantic Oil and Gas off their west coast and the pipe-line has already been brought ashore with some controversy in Co. Mayo. I would refer you to Big ‘Mac’ McLaughlins excellent papers from before Indy1 where he showed the un-tapped potential of West of Scotland oil/gas which extends down to where our ‘Economic Boundary’ meets the Republics. I would also point you to the recently announced licences for Rockall. You can contact me direct at my email address:- asterix.at.valhalla[at]gmail.com

    Auld Rock

  31. Grouse Beater says:

    Apropos Scottish talent:

    My Highland-born wife’s art exhibition at the Edinburgh International festival has attracted crowds and amazing reviews, “We are in the presence of a major artist”.

    I am so proud I couldn’t stop myself posting that!

  32. Robert Louis says:

    The GERS figures, designed by a Tory ‘Scottish’ secretary of state to mislead the public about Scotland’s economic position. That is a FACT, but you will not hear it via any of the yoonionist propaganda channels ever.

    As Rev and others such as the Cuthberts points out, in their many articles on this subject, GERS is utterly pointless, ignoring as it does vast revenue streams, and distorting the reality of Scotland’s economic strength.

    A tactic used throughout history by London on its colonies. ‘How will you survive without London’s money?, how will you manage with a broken economy?, how can you deal with debts of ‘made up figure at random’??.

    They did it with India, they did it with Ireland, they did it with the United States of America. Now they do it with Scotland, their last valuable colony. Westminster, liars to the very end. It’s about time they just f***** off out of Scotland, and gave us all peace.

    Odd that no former colony of mother England has pleaded to come back under London control. Funny, that.

    The only thing that surprises me, is just how many so-called ‘journalists’ in the Scottish media fall for it.

  33. Stoker says:

    Artyhetty wrote @12:07pm:
    “Most people have never heard of GERS.”

    Oh yes they have Arty, i’ll bet if you ask most people in Scotland, especially west central Scotland, they’ll tell you it’s that football team who’ve just gained promotion to Scotland’s top football league. Gaun! Try it! Ah bet ye! See if am right! 😉

  34. Grouse Beater says:

    On the Scottish press: this essay on journalists is flying around the ether again, I guess because it’s relevant:

    http://wp.me/p4fd9j-dC

  35. Effijy says:

    Auld Rock says

    Thanks for the update on the Irish Republic’s new fuel source

    I retreat to say that the Republic have not had the benefit of the £3,000,000,000,000 (£Trillion) that Westminster has
    stolen from Scotland so far, and yet the Irish Economy is in
    a much better position than the UK’s.

    Too Poor, Too Wee, Too Stupid?

    Scotland’s Oil revenues have been greater than Ireland’s, our population larger, but I concede we are stupid as we haven’t separated from Westminster, as yet.

  36. Effijy says:

    I have hopes that some new or undecided visitors to this site will today take the petition against Blatant BBC Bias to
    90,850 signatures!

    Many thanks to all those who are driving the numbers up to 100,000.

    https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum

  37. Valerie says:

    @Jack Collatin
    You made me laugh, in a rueful way

    @Grouse
    How fabulous, well done to Mrs GB. It’s a great thing.

    I suspect we will see a continuous shitshower, it’s a great diversion from the mess down south. A mess that those politicians should be held to account for, but no, let’s give the jocks a chibing, and encourage a pile on.

    @JLT

    You will like this. Head of European Policy Centre. UK has slammed the door, let’s start the divorce.

    http://archive.is/eNY3W

  38. Alex Clark says:

    @Auld Rock

    Yes you’re right. There is oil and gas off the coast of Ireland. Effigy look up the Corrib field for evidence. It’s also correct to say there was controversy about it and some people went to jail for that.

    None of our business I suppose. We’ll just keep banging the drums none the less.

  39. And whisky is still counted as a London asset, which it is.

  40. Ian says:

    rUK wins the Brexit vote then does nothing. It’ll be no surprise to see the UK’s relentless trade balance decline continue over the coming year. That’s what happens when your Plan A is just to sell off all the UK’s assets for a one-off boost to finances. The future be damned. Never mind though, as long as house prices keep rising that must mean the economy is doing well.

    It’d be interesting to see a list of what Westminster has privatised and what is left to privatise. Not so much selling the family silver as selling all the plates and pots as well. And they talk about North Sea oil running out!

  41. Wullie says:

    Does the article in the times allow comments. If so throw it back at them with spoof type comments.
    Re. Thank goodness I thought for a moment that England would no longer subsidise us .
    Why should I pay for prescription charges, university fees, eye tests, bus pass, care for the elderly.
    Good old English people keep paying for my benefits, why should I pay when you do it so well.
    Etc etc etc
    I’m sure craftier people could write goading comments much better than I
    Wullie

  42. Dr Jim says:

    Note to NO voters:

    What’s the First Minister doing today for and on behalf of Scotland? Don’t know? Why not? Not on the news? Why Not?
    Is it a good thing or a bad thing? Still don’t know?

    Check the telly news, Not there? Newspapers, not there?

    Scotland: The only country who’s political leader with the highest popularity rating in the UK ever has to inform the country of her work by Social Media

    No Media Bias? ….Aye Right

  43. brewsed says:

    Yes, indeed, there is a pervasive background noise of drumming which suggests the establishment darn sarth see an independent Scotland increasingly likely and are reacting accordingly.

    On GERS, Jim Cuthbert and Margaret Cuthbert produced, in 1998, “A CRITIQUE OF GERS: GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURE AND REVENUE IN SCOTLAND”. The word document is available here: http://www.jamcuthbert.co.uk/new_page_9.htm In the summary of the paper we read:

    ‘The results are inherently inaccurate and subject to potential bias… The GERS report indeed notes in its Executive Summary that the “calculations required to derive a GGBR for Scotland are subject to imprecision due to the need to estimate a number of elements of both expenditure and revenue”. On the basis of the above analysis, the extent of the imprecision is considerable.’

    So, not only is GERS inaccurate, but the government (UK or Scottish not specified) notes that the inputs are just estimates.

    Meanwhile, the UK national debt stands at £1,620 billion of which, given 8.4% of the UK population, Scotland’s broad shoulders maybe expected to take a share of £136 billion – or none, hence the bleating.

  44. Stoker says:

    Heads up to any new folk looking in. The commercial petition repeatedly posted (@1:01pm) is considered a con by most Wingers.

    Petition after petition has failed to achieve anything for our cause and the company responsible for that petition has already done the dirty on ‘Yes’ supporters.

    Be advised, think carefully before parting with your personal details to these people. A good number of signatures on that petition will also, no doubt, be fake.

    The best action against the BBC is non-payment of the licence fee, exposure and demonstrations discrediting their every word.

  45. Artyhetty says:

    Stoker@12.55
    Ah I see now, that’s the problem then. ?

    When I’ve mentioned GERS, even sent info to no voting friends they do not believe that it is in effect, a fabrication to benefit the london based establishment. They are also really not that interested, while many of our friends in england see Scotland as a parasite, expecting lots of freebies and wanting a ‘utopia’, ie, a fairer and more equal country.

    O/T Grousebeater@12.38

    Tell us where the exhibition is please? Would love to see it.

  46. Grouse Beater says:

    Valerie: Grouse – How fabulous

    Ta. Soon have to walk behind her like the Chookie Embra! (One of her images of the Castle has a saltire stuck on top. Ha, ha! I’d send it if you use Twitter.)

    Will try to take in some of the Festival today, but parking is a nightmare. They’ve even introduced charges and fines on Sundays. Embra toon cooncil, the bastards.

  47. frogesque says:

    Grouse beater:

    Please convey congrats to Mrs. Grouse. Fantastic!

    Meanwhile the ‘creative’ accounting that is GERS (why do I always think of a new football team when I see that?) continues.

  48. Grouse Beater says:

    Artyhety: Tell us where the exhibition is please? Would love to see it.

    Abridged review: “It could feel like a risk for a private gallery to devote its entire space, for the month of the Edinburgh Festival, to a single artist. This exhibition feels like a no-brainer … Complex and bold and dancing on the edge of abstraction, Rae’s paintings leave us in no doubt that we are in the presence of a major artist.

    Open Eye Gallery, until 31 Aug, free entrance.

  49. Kevin Evans says:

    That old American article is brilliant lol

  50. Breeks says:

    Curious side effect of all this propaganda?

    When was the last time you heard a unionist argument which you DIDN’T dismiss as blatant propaganda?

    The Unionists have forfeited their platform for speaking to us, because with all their bullshit, they’ve made us cease listening.

    Rather makes you wonder who their target audience is.

    I feel a bit of the “Euan MacGregor” moment coming on. “…..They’re just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can’t even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We’re ruled by effete arseholes. It’s a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy….”

    Aye. We are preached to about the perils of oil from the only wankers on the planet who can’t make a sustainable success out of somebody else’s oil.

  51. ScottieDog says:

    Folks there’s a really simple repost to all of this.

    I’m assuming that the spending gap (difference between tax receipts and govt expenditure) is lowest in London and the SE. That would be the area associated with banking.

    This is the sector which received a £1 Trillion bailout by the UK govt in the aftermath of 2008.

    its a bit like saying the latest UK national lottery winners are self made millionaires.

    As for the American colonies. As soon as you make sterling irrelevant, the problem disappears. If people understood money we would be independent already.

  52. Vambomarbeley says:

    Get this argument from the yoons. It has never dawned on them that the slump in oil prices has left a huge deficit in Westminsters finances. When you tell them a light bulb goes on. One as bright as a old ever ready bicycle bulb. Then the jaw drops.

  53. Jimbo says:

    It’s not the media lies that boil my blood anymore, it’s the Unionist idiots who relish these publications and masturbate over them. They just love to gloat over any bad news about Scotland.

    Why is Scotland so afflicted with folk who delight in constantly denigrating their own country and countrymen/women?

    I’ll never forget the time Labour politicians were punching the air with glee when they heard the news of the BOS crash – totally sickening.

  54. Grouse Beater says:

    Is Chris Cairns on holiday?

  55. Dan Huil says:

    Any impact these latest doomsday figures will have has been negated by the constant anti-Scottish media stories we’ve all endured over recent years. We’ve heard it all before; Project Fear is redundant as GERS.

  56. woosie says:

    I’m in agreement with many posters; Ireland has no oil to speak of, tourism isn’t equal to Scotland’s, Irish whiskey isn’t as popular. Aren’t they on their knees begging England to take them back?

    I think there’s more oil in the North Sea than there is water, but I’d give it all away for independence.

    Maybe to Ireland, or Mali, or anywhere except…..you know.

  57. JLT says:

    @Valerie
    You will like this. Head of European Policy Centre. UK has slammed the door, let’s start the divorce.

    Exactly. While business journalists such as Larry Elliot believe that we have ridden out the storm, he’s living in La-La land simply because Article 50 has not been implemented yet!.

    As far as I can see at the moment, there are 2 problems for the British State and its supporters when it comes to Brexit.

    Firstly, the Westminster Establishment are NOT in control of Brexit; no matter how much the media likes to pretend that it is. They keep stating that Theresa will invoke Article 50 next year, or possibly even later for that matter! However, the truth is, that it will be Europe that will be driving the agenda and timetable. Sooner or later, the EU will demand that Theresa come to Brussels to discuss the timetable for Britain’s exit. How the media will respond to that can go either way (fury at GB being told to turn up to meet ‘non-entity’ EU bureaucrats or panicking that Article 50 means meltdown in the UK).

    Secondly and more importantly, there are still too many people in the UK who don’t know what Article 50 is, nor the implications that go with it. People have not looked at the possible scenarios revolving around it. As I said above, the minute that Article 50 is invoked, then all hell breaks loose in Britain; Sterling will bomb, the world markets tumble, foreign investment dries up, businesses batten down the hatches, unemployment goes up and living standards fall. I have no doubt there are other factors that could be added to this list.

    As I also said, this is Chess. Theresa will try to work out the safest path towards a stable British future, but every move leads to a counter-attack.
    – Invoke Article 50; the UK goes into meltdown. IndyRef2 grows in pace.
    – Delay Article 50 indefinitely; the EU begins making demands (if not threats).
    – Decide to stay in the EU; the EU will punish the UK by removing all of Britain’s special agreements (much to the fury of Brexiteers who will then obviously scream for an exit). There is absolutely no danger that the EU will let Britain return to the fold and let things lie as they once were. EU citizens have been intimidated and threatened post Brexit, and Theresa has done nothing to guarantee their future in this country. Why should the EU allow Britain to retain its privileges after such conduct?

    For Theresa, she is now beginning to pay the piper. She called the tune by stating that she would invoke Article 50 if elected as Prime Minister; she now has to follow through on that promise. If she decides to stall, then the electorate, if not many of the anti-EU Tory MP’s within the party will begin to demand her head. Theresa is beginning to realise that not only could she be remembered as the Prime Minister that took a knife to the economic throat of the UK, but she could also be remembered in a double-whammy that sees her as the PM that oversaw the breakup of Britain. No wonder David Cameron was all smiles in his last week as PM; he could see exactly what was coming for the next leader. Stuff that for a game of soldiers!

    For all of us Scottish nationalists, the key here is patience. It’s up to Theresa to make the key move, but no matter what she chooses, it’s going to be a bitter pill to swallow.

  58. Glamaig says:

    Scotland’s GDP per capita is on a par with that of the UK as a whole, whatever list you look at. Depending how its worked out, ranks about 25th to 40th out of 185 in the world, and 12th largest economy in the EU. No bad for a wee country. That’s good enough for me – we have nothing to fear but fear itself.

  59. Cloggins says:

    All the above is true and valid, but delivered to an already convinced audience. A deliberate campaign of misinformation, dripping venom and disingenious half truths and whole lies has been set in motion. But who is to say the yoons and the britnatpress have he exclusive use of these instruments? With a bit of effort we can flood the system with allegations of embezzlement, cruelty to animals and/or children, outrageous holidays on the taxpayer’s account, falsification of documents – there is a whole litany of mischief which can be used. And we know that lying is permitted in these parts.
    And this time, go for both the monkey and the organ grinder…

  60. Arbroath1320 says:

    WOW!

    I never knew the Times, or even Sunday Times for that matter, thought so much about Rangers football club. 😉

    Oops!

    Sorreee. I got the wrong GERS there … I think. 🙂

    This would be the same GERS then that a *ahem* lovely individual told me on Twitter recently was written by the Scottish Government. 😉

  61. clipper says:

    Effijy

    “I think we come back to having a real need for a Bill Board
    or newspaper advert to show the Truth behind the corrupt
    economic figures created for an equally corrupt Westminster
    that needs to hold on to Scotland’s wealth for survival.”

    If only….. but probably too big bad and bold for the insipid Yes campaign. Full page ads in papers may not be possible but billboards should be. Any other similar but serious and professionally co-ordinated campaign would have been using them by now and would also have at least a few dozen activists with some time on their hands handing out carefully worded leaflets in town and city centres up and down the country. Not even any need to mention the SNP or even independence, just verifiable facts about how Scotland and the Scots get screwed all day long in the union. A scattergun and wasteful tactic yes but it’s a numbers game. As for billboards, just one strategically placed one would be seen by THOUSANDS of people every day for as long as it was up, and that would be just one.

    Will it happen? Ask the Yes campaign.

  62. ann says:

    Just how can Scotland have a deficit if it does not have all levers to run and control her economy like other countiers, yet she has to suffer the proportional deficit of the whole of the UK?

    Of course no one will ask these questions, so hey! ho!

    Totally fed up with the news that comes from English controlled papers and media.
    It’s about time they took off the blinders and looked and reported on the total incompetence of the Westminster Government over the last 40 odd years.

  63. Capella says:

    @ GB Well done Mrs Grouse. You can enjoy basking in reflected glory!

    As for the GERS figures – YAWN. When will this never ending dirge of Westminster be over. I know we have to be patient and wait for a favourable wind but it is a frightful bore.
    I looked up the UK Current Deficit to find that it is £19 billion which is strange if Scotland’s is £15b and Wales’ is £15b. Something doesn’t add up.
    http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_deficit_analysis

    The jingoism of the Olympics is another deadly dull ritual cooked up by the MSM – did I say “cooked”? The Great British Bakeoff is back. YAWN again.

    I wonder how many medals Team GB would have won had the Russians not been blanket banned. Yelena Isinbayeva has resigned from pole vaulting in protest and been elected onto the IOC. She has been the world record holder since 2008. Here is her final vault. Scary.
    youtu.be/FR07fjBbnuQ

  64. Valerie says:

    @Grouse Beater

    Omg, I hate to say this, but I reckon you should have been walking behind your Mrs some years ago!!!

    What an uber talented lady, and exactly the type of art I love and covet, as you would see from my humble collection.

    AND, get this, I’ve found a print of Achill island where my mother was born, and where I spent many summers. So I will have to purchase.

    Any accolades are more than deserved.

  65. heedtracker says:

    An important Kez intervention coming next week too, via Sunday Post, with what should be the last nail in JC’s crucifixion. Christ knows what red tory SLab will do if JC does rise again, like Lazarus.

    Kezia Dugdale set to officially back Owen Smith in Labour leadership race
    Written by Andrew Picken, 21/08/2016

    KEZIA Dugdale will this week officially back Owen Smith to replace Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader.

    The Scottish Labour leader’s intervention is expected ahead of the pair travelling north of the Border for a series of rallies and hustings

  66. mealer says:

    You either believe in Scotlands people or you don’t.

  67. Luigi says:

    HandandShrimp says:

    21 August, 2016 at 11:23 am

    It does show that although no date has been set, we are in a full blown Indyref2 with Project Fear already in overdrive.

    The signs for a second referendum are looking good.

    Indeed. They have yet again made the classic mistake of going far too early, bringing all their big guns to bear and completely over-egging the pudding. Don’t interrupt them I say – they will be completely burnt out well before Article 50 is invoked. The real battle has yet to begin and they are wasting their ammo. Our powder remains safe and dry and will remain so until hell breaks loose. They have already shown their hand (nothing new there) and they will be dealt with effectively when the time comes.

  68. Dan Huil says:

    Don’t forget that GERS is a purely political construct.

    From Ian Lang, the then Secretary of State for Scotland, in a letter to the then Prime Minister, John Major, on March 3rd 1992:

    “I am disappointed that both you and the Chancellor have reservations about publishing the booklet I have had prepared and printed, setting out the details of the government’s expenditure and revenue in Scotland. I judge that it is just what is needed at present in our campaign to maintain the initiative and undermine the other parties. This initiative could score against all of them”.

  69. heedtracker says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    21 August, 2016 at 1:42 pm
    Artyhety: Tell us where the exhibition is please? Would love to see it.

    Mrs GB’s a beautiful painter. Is she a YESer too?! Looks like some Joan Eardley and Stanley Spencer influence, with his WW2 Clyde shipyards, Lithgows shipyard, Port Glasgow. We were one of the last contract works ever done in that Lithgow yard, damaged jack up, but we watched as various German engineers arrived with dozens of HGHV’s to take all the giant steel machine tools back to yards in Europe.

    That was 1995, all gone and all under John Major’s toryboy arsewipe government. They filled in the docks and Lithgow’s yard a chicken coop housing estate now, and a Tesco 24.

  70. Hamish100 says:

    the tory front “Scotland in Union” appears to love pictures of a guy wi a beard saying “no to referendum”. They also appear to having been waiting in anticipation for the GER’S results. Wonder who is driving them with the jargonese? the tory media, SoSS? wee tank ruthie.

    they are a dangerous lot.

  71. Al Dossary says:

    Re the oil off the Irish coast – yes it is there. First I heard of it was in the late 1990’s. The source worked the survey vessels and had just finished surveying the West coast, the next stop was to be Rockall. All he would say was that it went well!

    I do not think the Irish Govt, let alone the people will see much of it though. The Norwegians offered to advise them in their negotiations with the oil companies, but in their wisdom the Irish turned it down.

    From some former Irish colleagues (still on Corrib AFAIK) they are literally giving it away for free to the likes of Shell.

  72. Grouse Beater says:

    Heedtracker: “Christ knows what red tory SLab will do if JC does rise again.”

    Or Kezia, for that matter.

    The other issue is, if Corbyn survives the vote, what will he do with her for disloyalty.

    To do nothing confirms his current image as a wuss. To fire her shows gumption, but angers his platoon here who survive so long as their group leader is weak.

  73. Grouse Beater says:

    Heedtracker: Mrs GB’s a beautiful painter. Is she a YESer too?!

    Much obliged. Very gracious.

    Will pass the compliment on to her, currently on Baffin Island tracing the steps of the eminent Orkney explorer Dr John Rae for an exhibition next year.

    Story here: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-1pt

    A Yeser? She painted a Saltire atop Edinburgh’s Castle! Her father was SNP provost of Crieff, and much respected. He was among the group to walk across the Forth Road Bridge on its ceremonial opening. Brother is James Rae rally champ.

  74. Arbroath1320 says:

    Anyone wondering about this Scotland in Union mob of degenerates might find this *cough* interesting. 😉

    https://archive.is/9c4NA

  75. Grouse Beater says:

    Valerie: “AND, get this, I’ve found a print of Achill Island where my mother was born, and where I spent many summers. So I will have to purchase.”

    You’re very welcome.

    The exhibition is knockout – would honestly feel that even not married to her – but I knew she was among the greats when I walked into Ireland’s national museum in Dublin years back.

    In the main atrium was Monet’s ‘Lilies’, on the left a Van Gogh and a Cezanne, and at the far end a large canvas that looked very … very familiar. I walked towards it, curious. I had the same reaction as you.

    Oh my god. This woman is good.

    Isn’t it great Scotland has a great female painter and printmaker, one respected by painters internationally?

    If you have problems getting hold of an edition of the work you like (30 created) write to me direct – use my essay site – comments appear on my e-mail.

    Yours
    (In a sort of way)

  76. Chic McGregor says:

    Congrats to the missus GB.

    Does that make her the Famous Grouse then? 🙂

  77. Ruby says:

    Scotland within the UK is set for a record deficit!

    Conclusion: Being part of the UK is detrimental for Scotland.

    The UK being desperate to hang on the Scotland (for some strange reason) have a vested interest in ensuring Scotland’s deficit remains high!

    Sorry if I sound as if record’s stuck but this whole debate whether if be about Scottish Independence, the MSM, Cybernats, the BBC seems to be stuck in ‘Ground Hog Day/Stuck Record’ mode.

  78. carjamtic says:

    Data from MSM as per normal, Fubared.

    Fukced up beyond all recognition.

    Advocate Depute “You say you went to your friends house that night.Why did you go there ?”

    Yoon Ned “Tae get a tap”
    A.D. “Are you a plumber”

    Yoon Ned “naw”

    A.D. “Is your friend a plumber ?”
    Y.N. “Naw”

    The Y.N. Is a bit bewildered by this line of questioning and the A.D. realises it,but notices the court police officer is rubbing his fingers together in the universal sign for money.

    Daylight apparently dawns on the A.D. and he changes his line of questioning accordingly.

    A.D. “so you went to borrow some money ?”
    Y.N. “Naw”

    A.D “you went there to lend some money”
    Y.N. “Naw”

    Exasperated the A.D. says “you say you went to your friends house for a tap,can you tell us what kind of tap was it”

    Y.N. “A GERS tap”

    Ach well if they can do hand-me-down stories,so can we.

    😉

    Coat oan….

  79. Grouse Beater says:

    Capella: “Well done Mrs Grouse. You can enjoy basking in reflected glory!”

    Many thanks, Capella.

    Sorry, folks, didn’t mean to divert the topic, but I got choked reading the reviews in my office alone, and needed to shout to the heavens.

  80. Dorothy Devine says:

    Jack Collatin , you voiced much of what I was thinking – thank you , I think.

    Grouse Beater, that is just wonderful congratulations to Mrs Grouse Beater!

    I am one of four , I had 2 brothers and 1 sister- all of whom could draw and paint like angels. Sadly I was utterly incapable.

  81. Ruby says:

    mealer says:
    21 August, 2016 at 3:23 pm

    You either believe in Scotlands people or you don’t.

    Ruby replies

    I agree with that. I don’t think you need to read GERS, White Papers, treasury reports, oil forecasts etc all you need to ask yourself is if you think the people of Scotland are or are not capable of running a successful country?

  82. Alex Clark says:

    Hear what I’m saying. It’s your duty to watch this. Do it now.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJXvWtQ3-_c

  83. Jack Murphy says:

    heedtracker said at 3:13pm:-

    “……………KEZIA Dugdale will this week officially back Owen Smith to replace Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader………..”

    That’s him doomed.

  84. Grouse Beater says:

    Chic: “Does that make her the Famous Grouse then?”

    Good one! Still chuckling.

    (Blessed is the man whose wife can share the mortgage.)

  85. heedtracker says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    21 August, 2016 at 3:49 pm
    Heedtracker: “Christ knows what red tory SLab will do if JC does rise again.”

    Or Kezia, for that matter.

    Tactically its madness. JC’s shown that he’s probably not the leftie he supposed to be, just for sticking Shami Chakrabarti in the Lords last week or so. But he polls well and instead of just going with it for a couple of years, mending fences, at least acting electable, ditching twerps like Macternan, they’re fighting like rats in a sack. JC’s an old man anyway so there will be loads of changes coming for Lab before 2020 GE, which tory BBC led media are going to make sure the tories win, even if it is Owen Smith.

    Unless Kez is plotting some kind of SLab great schism under JC but has she got that kind of politicky talent? No. They are red tory and that is that.

  86. Macart says:

    Like I could give a flying…..* what the media, central government policy wonks, or branch management have to say about Lang’s legacy.

    I’ve got a sock drawer needs rearranging. Pffft!

  87. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Alex –

    Aye, it’s a good ‘un.

    The BTUKOK gobshites cannot understand why we won’t just go away.

    A lot of the reasons are right there.

    Here’s hoping Sep 18th, Glasgow Green, is one of the biggest rallies Scotland has ever seen.

  88. Gary45% says:

    No doubt the Purple Tory collective and the Scottish Yoons(Scoons) will ramp up Indy 2 Misery “facts???” to try and scare the uneducated yet again.
    Message to the Scoon collective we have learned to read real good.
    Expect Scotland’s water to become some sort of weight around its neck, just like its oil.
    Scary Bollocks.

  89. Arbroath1320 says:

    Sorry for going way O/T here but just a wee heads up folks about how great this broken union is these days.

    Now remember … as we are always being told … Britannia rules the waves … allegedly. 🙂

    I only make not about the ruling the waves thingy because I’ve come across this wee beauty. 😉

    https://www.rt.com/uk/356627-royal-navy-repair-vessel/

  90. Iain More says:

    I am fully prepared for a week of Brit Nats self relieving themselves in public well that or just plain defecating on Scotland. Well maybe a combination of both as it has been happening for years now.

    There is no price I would set on being Free of London and Westmidden Rule as far as I am concerned.

  91. Fireproofjim says:

    Ireland has been looking for oil around the south and west coasts for many years. It has four productive gas fields which provide all the gas it needs. I have visited the Kinsale platforms which have been producing gas for at least twenty years, but the only oil is a small amount which is produced with the gas.
    Nevertheless Ireland has the best growth rates in Europe without oil. Scotland would do better.
    Incidentally an article in today’s Sunday Times says that Cairn Energy is going ahead with their giant Kraken and Catcher fields in Scottish waters, both of which are seen as extremely profitable with oil at its current price of $50 per barrel. New efficiencies have made production costs only $17 per barrel, so lots of taxable profits for a future Scottish government.
    Don’t believe oil is finished. There is a lifetime of production to come, and prices will rise again.

  92. Arbroath1320 says:

    I’ve just read that excellent piece Ronnie … thanks for the link.

    I’m just wondering out loud here 😉 but with the deliberate act of shipping Fiona McGuire off to Dubai does this not constitute some form of Witness Tampering? 😉

    I’ll leave this question now in the hands of our eminent legal department here on Wings. 🙂

  93. Arbroath1320 says:

    I don’t think this really needs any comment from me. 😉

    https://www.rt.com/uk/356517-journalist-eu-vote-fraud/

  94. Free Scotland says:

    If, on the day when the latest GERS figures are published, an eminently suitable professional agrees to accept the responsibility of investigating historic paedophilia at Westminster, you can be sure that the TIMES will give priority to the GERS figures.

  95. Gary45% says:

    Ian Brotherhood@4.26.
    Glesca Green, we’ll be there.
    O/T
    Big congratulations to John McPhee he has just won the Moto3 race in Brno.

  96. ronnie anderson says:

    Ah remember somebody fae the dim & distant past saying we had nae Culture.

    http://www.northlinkferries.co.uk/orkney-blog/ness-of-brodgar/

    Dont let the the 1st photy wie Flounce N Bounce N Go, in it put you off its a good read.

  97. Valerie says:

    Great piece by Bateman ripping Daisley, and hingers on, new ones

    http://derekbateman.scot/2016/08/21/can-i-quote-you/

  98. dramfineday says:

    Well done Mrs GB. Mr GB, please pass on our kind regards – the drams.

  99. liz says:

    Beginning to think MSM are in total meltdown.

    Got Nick Cohen on twitter talking about Nat corporations running the country.

    Iain Martin trying to ridicule Derek Bateman for writing a great piece putting the whinging big girls blouses into context

  100. Tam Jardine says:

    The bizarre aspect to the future gers assault is in the context of brexit.

    Looking at the 2 entities- indy Scotland would be remaining in the EU and therefore would be tied to the Stability and Growth Pact.

    “The Stability and Growth Pact (SGP) is a set of rules designed to ensure that countries in the European Union pursue sound public finances and coordinate their fiscal policies.”

    So too wee, too poor too stupid Scotland has to comply ultimately with a manageable public debt (which at present stands at zero) and a deficit to GDP ratio of 3% (or certainly work towards it). That deficit will reduce significantly as soon as our entire public expenditure is being spent here. We enter a process whereby public finances are subject to corrective measures- surely what the yoons should be desperate for as a safeguard against perceived profligacy!

    RUK would be leaving the stability and growth pact with the largest public debt in the EU and exiting the mechanism at a time of maximum disruption to their economy.

    I know which situation sounds more sensible.

  101. gordoz says:

    Anybody under the age of 60 read the establishments Times .. really ??

    They’re chattering to themselves.

    Irony of state supporting press propaganda like this is totally zoomerville !

  102. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Anti-independence campaigners
    You appear to be on the point of filling your keks Could it be that you recognise the independence movement for what it is? A living and breathing example of differential oppositional consciousness. A movement of the people that will ultimately break the ideology of British Nationalism.

    Face it BritNats, you are neocolonilsts bent on denying me my national identity and associated human rights (agreed on by the international; community). This does not appear to be a particularly enlightened position. Why not expand your collective consciousness?

    Remember, self-consciousness is only satisfied in the self-consciousness of another. Just so that there is no misunderstanding, this means you have to treat the “other” as human in order to become self-aware yourself.

  103. Arbroath1320 says:

    liz says:
    21 August, 2016 at 5:42 pm

    Beginning to think MSM are in total meltdown.

    Got Nick Cohen on twitter talking about Nat corporations running the country.

    Iain Martin trying to ridicule Derek Bateman for writing a great piece putting the whinging big girls blouses into context

    There is only one thing to say here Liz. 😉

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejmFSN2qBG0

  104. heedtracker says:

    http://archive.is/KpCQu

    Graun really wants Scotland to love, worship and vote Tory. This kind of political hagiography hasn’t been seen since today, produced by every news room in Princess Ruth”s Scotland region, starting in Pacific Quay.

  105. liz says:

    @Arbroath1320 – HaHa

    PS should have said congrats to Mrs Grouse

  106. gordoz says:

    Yeah Gary 45 – spot on.

    Watch out for Scotlands water – next target.

    We’ll have the wrong stuff I bet ; we’ll have the rubbish bad water; just like the oil. What a curse on a nation. Just as well Westminster knew what to do with the revenues.

    Turns out only Westminster will be clever enough to make the water work right, under a pooling and sharing scheme.

    What a bummer… eh ?

    Bad luck again Scotland.

    Too Wee, too poor, too stupid….(To take control that is and send the Imperial Masters packing once and for all ! )

  107. davidb says:

    O/T

    Strange. The Torygraph has a piece about IDS rattling Eurosceptic sabres. The strange bit is that it has 3 pieces of video, all of which feature the Tank Commander. Wonder why?

    https://archive.is/ZdiLw

  108. gus1940 says:

    O/T

    There is a vomit inducing interview of the ‘Why are you so Wonderful?’variety of Ruth The Muth in today’s Observer.

    If you feel tempted to read it remember to keep the Sick Bucket handy.

  109. dakk says:

    @Macart

    ‘I’ve got a sock drawer needs rearranging. Pffft!’

    Don’t you have a cleaner ?

    Most of my West end public sector clients have cleaners,it’s all the rage.

    Food banks and personal cleaners for the middle class nouveau riche.Feel like I’m living in Dickensian Britain.

    I suppose it keeps the white trash in pin money.

  110. All the talk about North Sea oil what about the oil in the Clyde?only a stones throw away do they think we have forgot about it

  111. O/T

    Just in case anybody missed the very wide coverage it was given on the BBC the First Minister was visiting Srebrenica today.

  112. Vambomarbeleye says:

    We need to keep as much of the oil in the ground before independence as possible. Otherwise it will be squandered by wm.

  113. Glamaig says:

    the other day I heard someone come out with this – I paraphrase:

    Venezuela has lots of oil.

    There are lots of poor people in Venezuela.

    Scotland has oil.

    Conclusion: Scotland is f*cked if it goes independent.

    We are up against people who can look at that and go ‘oh yeah that makes sense.’

  114. velofello says:

    Curiosity: I clicked on heed tracker’s link to kevverage – never having bothered with such stuff before. Via kevverrage I wandered across to a Chukka blog, and Euan McColm. And I noted the frankly vile personal comments Spanner had posted against several females.

    What a bunch of mean-spirited bigoted people.

  115. Macart says:

    @dakk

    Well, Id have said I’d be doin’ ma hair that day but…. 🙂

  116. potter says:

    London exported 8 times more mineral fuel than Scotland in 2015. In 2013 England exported £20 billion worth of mineral fuel, Scotland £2 billion. Mineral fuel was Scotlands 7th largest commodity export last year, Englands 5th. 70% of the oil refined in Britain comes from the North Sea.

    https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx

  117. Dan Huil says:

    @Potter 6:59pm

    According to uktradeinfo graph Scotland exports more than it imports.

  118. dakk says:

    @ Macart

    ‘Well, Id have said I’d be doin’ ma hair that day but…. ?

    Know the feelin’

    A’m no Neil Oliver ma’sel 🙁

    He’ll hae a cleaner and get a wee shampoo and set twice a week nae doot.

  119. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Gary45% –

    Delighted to hear you’ll make it to GG on the 18th.

    We have to make this the biggest and best yet.

  120. ScottishPsyche says:

    Does anyone remember the rUK taking any interest in GERS before IndyRef1? Now it will be wall to wall coverage and the extremely misleading graphs will be wheeled out again. I really wish the SNP would challenge this crude methodology of assigned estimates as a means of determining the economic viability of a nation state.

    The madness of the MSM continues unabated.Sometimes I really believe we are still living in the dark ages despite all our supposed advances. Watching ‘Suffragette’ and seeing the women who called their own sex a disgrace and joined with the establishment to suppress the movement gave me an odd chill. The parallels with independence are there. Women whose lives were comfortable or who were too afraid to rock the boat could not see the need for change.

    Now it seems quite incredible but is still less than 100 years since the UK gave women the vote. All the same arguments were there – don’t give away anything because they will want more. Still the same people trying to hold on to power.

  121. K. A. Mylchreest says:

    Very soon it will be autumn and the leaves will turn to pretty colours before they fall. But behind all the poetry what is actually going on is this: The tree has determined that the leaves are a liability, and probably in danger of being torn off anyway by the winter gales. So the best strategy is to drop them in a controlled manner, having first drawn out anything of value and then filled them up with as much waste as possible (hence the colours).

    Isn´t this just what will happen to Scotland once WM sees that indy is inevitable? That everything possibly of value will by ´repatriated´ to Mother England, and as much crap as they can get away with, (physical? social? political? economic?) dumped on or abandoned in Scotland?

  122. Cactus says:

    I second ur 7:12 Ian B

    Cheers!

  123. Tinto Chiel says:

    Some excellent comments on here today. They will keep me sane ahead of all the rerun of GERS drivel.

    Since the Rev provocatively gave us Inglis’ “The Costs of Revolution” document, I append a counterweight link to the works of a great Scot, James Thomson Callender, who had to high-tail it to the States to criticise the corrupt Establishment from the safety of Philadelphia. He was a heavyweight political thinker and very bad Scotch rebel, don’t ya know?

    There’s nothing new in our struggle, and many have had to suffer grievously for it. If you can take the time to read his thoughts, it gives perspective to our situation. Interesting too for students of the dismal science, economics.

    http://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/evans/N21591.0001.001/1:2?rgn=div1;view=fulltext

  124. Clootie says:

    I Wonder how the knapdarlochs posing as journalist will report it.
    The unionists are the pimps and the media their workers…the Nae voters are the customers.

  125. Capella says:

    O/T I hear there’s a new Facebook page “Smash the SNP”. I haven’t looked at it myself but colleagues tell me it’s vile.
    Comments don’t survive for long if they aren’t anti SNP.
    Yoons getting desparate and nasty.

  126. Phronesis says:

    Crickey –the 2016 National Budget for Norway. A country that’s a bit wee but not too poor or stupid and seems to value all of its citizens and an oil economy that actually works for Norway.Fairly certain that it doesn’t look to UKOK for economic advice…

    ‘Petroleum revenue spending needs to be both tailored to the situation in the Norwegian economy and focused on measures to improve its long-term growth capacity. The Government is proposing lower taxes and an expansion of infrastructure, innovation, research and knowledge, in order to stimulate employment, savings and investment. The Government will stimulate more business entrepreneurship and proposes, inter alia, expanded appropriations for Innovation Norway’s entrepreneurship grant scheme and pre-seed capital fund…

    The Government will strengthen infrastructure. Efficient communications reduce costs and travel times for businesses and individuals. The Government’s budget proposal increases appropriations for road purposes under the Ministry of Transport and Communications by NOK 4.9 billion…

    Knowledge creates opportunities for all. The Government harbours high ambitions for Norway as a knowledge nation. This requires quality at all levels, from kindergartens, via schools, to higher education and research. The Government is proposing increased appropriations to enhance qualifications and quality in kindergartens, and will in 2016 realise the objective of equal treatment of municipal and non-municipal kindergartens…

    A welfare boost for the sick and the elderly. The Government aims for everyone to have access to equivalent health services of a good quality. The budget proposal gives scope for expanding the treatment of patients in hospitals by 2.5 per cent, which is a large number compared to previous years…

    Vibrant local democracy. The Government will give individuals, local communities and municipalities more freedom and more influence over their everyday existence. The Government has embarked on a local government reform to prepare municipalities for dealing with future challenges

    It is a particular challenge that many people are now losing their jobs in the industries and counties most affected by the low oil price. The Government is proposing a package of measures for increased employment in the total amount of NOK 4 billion as part of the budget. The special measures in this package will be temporary and structured such as to be readily reversible. These measures include, inter alia, accelerated maintenance investment in hospitals, expanded maintenance and renewal of road and railway sections, research and innovation grants, one-time subventions for maintenance and rehabilitation of municipal schools and care homes, maintenance and upgrading of research vessels, improved flooding, landslip and avalanche protection…

    Favourable developments in the Norwegian economy have contributed to strong performance and robust earnings on the part of Norwegian financial institutions. Banks, in particular, have registered income, capital adequacy and earnings improvements. The market share of Norwegian banks in the Norwegian banking market has remained fairly stable since 2008’

    http://www.statsbudsjettet.no/Statsbudsjettet-2016/English/

  127. Kevin Evans says:

    Re oil on the west coast.

    I spoke to a fisherman in Barra who in the 70’s/80’s had his boat in port for days while ships were exploring the west coast. The crew of the ship docked in Barra and in the pub that evening the fisherman asked what they were doing. He got told looking for oil reserves. When the fisherman asked if there was any he got told yea lots and lots of it but it’s very deep and not easy to get out.

    That was the 70’s 80’s am sure technology has moved on now.

  128. Tinto Chiel says:

    @ Phronesis: great comment and info as usual.

    If Norway can survive its “four-hundred year sleep” under Denmark then I think we can easily get over our three hundred years of attempted erasure under The Union.

    If people in Scotland could get access to this kind of stuff in their press, Indy2 would be a walkover, which is why MSM suppress it at all costs.

    As far as the media are concerned, I feel we live in an occupied country.

    Sleepers, awake!

  129. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi CameronB Brodie (at 5:51 pm):

    You typed,
    [EDIT]
    “Remember, self-consciousness is only satisfied in the self-consciousness of another. Just so that there is no misunderstanding, this means you have to treat the “other” as human in order to become self-aware yourself.”

    I believe I understood that post in its entirety!

    Congrats! 8=)
    – – – – – – – – –
    Hi K. A. Mylchreest (at 7:22 pm)

    You typed,

    “Very soon it will be autumn and the leaves will turn to pretty colours before they fall. But behind all the poetry what is actually going on is this: The tree has determined that the leaves are a liability, and probably in danger of being torn off anyway by the winter gales. So the best strategy is to drop them in a controlled manner, having first drawn out anything of value and then filled them up with as much waste as possible (hence the colours).”

    I thought that a pretty well thought out analogy for Scotland’s current situation. Rather poetic, in a way…

  130. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Anti-independence campaigners
    In case you are uncertain as to what the people of Scotland’s right to development entails, it requires the British state to do all in it’s powers to encourage and enable Scotland’s self-determination. Think on that for a bit.

    Right. Do you feel comfortable when it is pointed out to you that your position denies my human rights?

  131. Footsoldier says:

    Some more stats to digest, source current BBC website:

    First USA 120, Second GB 67, Third China 70.

    Different matter if you count gold medals only but that would mean Silver and Bronze count for nothing; tell that to the athletes.

  132. CameronB Brodie says:

    All part of the service Brian. 😉

  133. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Tinto Chiel (8.14) –

    ‘I feel we live in an occupied country.’

    That, for me, nails it. That feeling can only ever be suppressed or denied. It will never ever leave us until are free of WM rule.

    I just hope we get there in time for some of our older nearest and dearest to enjoy it. Too many have passed with that ‘feeling’ having plagued their entire adult lives.

  134. Cactus says:

    The 17th should also present an excellent opportunity to promote the 18th.

    Given to the people, for the people, by the people..

    That’s Glasgow Green.

  135. Tinto Chiel says:

    @BDTT.

    You typed:

    “I thought that a pretty well thought out analogy for Scotland’s current situation. Rather poetic, in a way…”

    In other words, beneath the quotidian determinism of the surface world, you have discerned the eternal beauty of the random universe. I await the ineffable CB Brodie’s semiotic analysis.

    Lovely water, this….

    😀

    Have you got DMHill’s umbrella or his Scottish passport? The suspense is killing me.

  136. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Ian Brotherhood.

    The prize for me, Ian, is that our children see an independent Scotland. I’m a lot older than you young ”uns so it’s all I’ve got, but we’ll get there, mes braves.

    I find it impossible to express my contempt for the Yoon Media.

    Dante would have to expand his Hell for those types.

  137. Grouse Beater says:

    Glamaig: “Venezuela has lots of oil. There are lots of poor people in Venezuela.”

    As you right imply, Glamaig, that overheard conversation is an example of false logic, and has a huge crevasse of ignorance between the first and second sentence.

    One might as well say, Scotland has lots of sheep. Most Scots are too poor to afford a sheepskin jacket.

    Or, there are lots of horses in Scotland. Very few Scots know how to ride a horse.

    Venezuela has been wrestling the oil profits from private ownership for over a decade now, but is bedevilled by the dead hand of the USA.

  138. Robert Louis says:

    As pointed out by the Rev STU and others, Derek Bateman (an actual REAL journalist) has an excellent piece right now regarding the lying Scottish media and their infantile obsession with being ‘anti SNP’. It is worth reading – I’d emphasise that point to any of the so-called ‘Scottish ‘journalists’ who come here too.

    http://derekbateman.scot/2016/08/21/can-i-quote-you/

    As Derek points out, the politics of Scotland have changed dramatically. I now think it is time for the so-called Scottish ‘journalists’ to grow up, and stop acting like spoilt weans. Change happens. To put it another way, they need to sniff the freaking coffee and wake up to reality 2016 style, instead of a dreamy rose-tinted time of yore, when the SNP was openly laughed at, with a couple of MP’s, when independence was seen as ‘silly’, and Labour ran Scotland. Those days are gone.

    At least half the population of Scotland support Scottish independence. The largest political party in Scotland is the SNP – they have more members, more MSP’s and, importantly, more MPS than all the other parties put together. Their is a pro independence majority in the Scottish Parliament (SNP + Greens). The SNP have been in power since 2007. It is time the so-called Scottish media stopped insulting Scotland, stopped being an embarrassment to themselves, and started representing Scotland as it actually is, not how they wish it still was.

  139. Fireproofjim says:

    Footsoldier
    The IOC don’t approve of medal tables, but it has been an unofficial feature of the games for many years.
    The way they are rated (unofficially) is that Gold are worth 5 points, silver 3, bronze 1.
    Allt the nations who report their results do the same thing, so the Chinese agree that they are third. (Although they are not particularly happy about it).

  140. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Tinto Chiel.

    Ronnie and I finally worked out what happened, from the posts on the previous page last night.

    DMHill bought two passports for a fiver and asked the ‘stall staff’ to look after them ‘for a wee while’. He never came back and there was such demand for them that his two, languishing in ‘the box’, were purchased by a person unknown.

    Never fear! Now that we know whose they were, we will be able to supply him with a replacement pair on the 18th. Unfortunately, due to ‘Friends Of Wings’ realising the marketability of said passports, the price has risen; it’s now the same as a UK passport. However, the fiver he has already paid is to his credit.

    Ronnie will correct me if I’m mistaken.

    8=)

  141. galamcennalath says:

    Looking at all the spitting and scratching on Twitter.

    I wish these assholes would stop thinking of themselves journalists. They are not worthy of the name. When did some of them last report actual news?

    Derek Bateman’s latest (already highlighted in earlier comments) hits the nail …

    http://derekbateman.scot/2016/08/21/can-i-quote-you/

  142. Irvine Manderson says:

    If SNP yet again fails to challenge the fundamental basis of the figures quoted in Westminster’s annual GERS report (aka lies), are we to assume that the SNP accepts Westminster’s figures?

  143. scotspine says:

    Right folks. The upcoming rally needs max publicity. Twitter, Facebook, word of mouth, any which way we can. The last was good effort, but unless you knew about it in advance, or where to look, it was small beer. Get the word out folks.
    18th Sept. COME ON!

  144. Tinto Chiel says:

    BrianDTT: thanks, I can sleep tonight. I’ve been giving my Scottish PP away to random Soft Yesses/Regretful Noes but I still have two left.

    That Peter Green live clip was great. Well done Capella. Don’t know where you got that from.

    To Yoons, in the face of all our intellect, I would say:

    Resistance is futile, Ya Bass!*

    *East End of Glasgow hearty greeting.

  145. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @BDTT (9.06) –

    That’s a nice wee bit of detective work there.

    If only our yoon compatriots had a fraction of your sleuthing skills they might be able to work out why they’re up to their oxters in shite.

  146. Ian Foulds says:

    Camz at 11.55am -‘Strange. When I google for England’s deficit, I get the UK’s deficit. Funny old world. We can find the deficits of all the ‘little’ countries of the union, but not the one of the country that’s carrying all the political majorities.’

    If we know the deficit of all the ‘little’ countries can we deduct these from the total debt and say that is the ‘big’ country’s, before we further adjust for the charges levied by the ‘big’ country on the ‘little’ countries?

  147. mr thms says:

    Brent crude is around $50 just now.. The cost of extracting North Sea oil has fallen from just below $30 a barrel in 2014 to around $17 this year. There has also been an increase in oil and gas production since 2014 which is is set to grow thanks to investment of around £50 billion over the past few years. A new licensing round recently included a large area around the west of Scotland. Then there is the multi-billion pound industry in servicing and in decommissioning. Finally, the exchange rate was around $1.70 in mid-2014 and it is now $1.30 approximately. You get a lot more sterling thanks to Brexit..

  148. Tinto Chiel says:

    @BDTT.

    Anent (ooh!) Ronnie’s passports: I had a small stack of them at the front door table when the gas engineer called.

    He took one look at them and then said, “Fuck’s sake, if only!”

    And so we go on…..

    RIF, Yoonsters.

  149. Luigi says:

    O/T RE: the photo of the wee Syrian airstrike victim, RT is wondering why the western media are not interested in the hundreds of Yemeni children that have been slaughtered by Saudi air strikes on schools and hospitals. Apparently there are plenty of images available, but not a peep.

  150. Big Jock says:

    Is anyone else like me and getting very weary of this holding pen situation. Since the initial fizz over Brexit, Scotland seems to have fallen asleep. The media have reverted to type and the SNP are waiting on someone else doing something.

    Sure I get the explore avenues etc which Nicola is doing. But I fear that the initial shock of Brexit is gradually being normalised by inaction by the SG.

    If there is to be indi ref 2 we need to do it when there is a majority in parliament. That’s what the majority pro indi is for. It’s not to wait and see and miss the tide. There is no guarantee of the next parliament being an SNP majority or pro indi majority.

    The referendum must be put through in the next 2 years regardless. That’s what Scots voted for. Remember material change! It didn’t state subject to Tories deciding when they wanted it.

    I honestly fear the wait and see strategy might be a tactical disaster.

  151. winifred mccartney says:

    Derek Bateman spot on about ‘journalists’ not worthy of the name – just spoit brats who think everybody should accept what they say – a little clique of ‘writers’ who know we no longer believe a word they say and do not trust them and that is what they can’t stomach so they just go in the huff and spread the tantrum around. Go and do a decent days work instead of regurgitating one anothers tantrums.

  152. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel
    I’m no rocket scientist and I’m not a trained semiotician. I’m also a good few years out of the habit, so I’ll decline the challenge, if you don’t mind. 😉

  153. ronnie anderson says:

    @ BrianDTT why ur you always bringing me intae the mix, is it because if misstooks ur made its ma faut ( ah cannae get the bloody quality of staff noadays).

    Oanyhoos the resold passports of DMcH there will be a small charge fur the new ones ( no as Briandtt says ie Uk charges) naw the Ink wont be dry oan the new wans ( whit ah buzz) so we hiv tae charge accordingly, an there in ah re-sealabile bag tae keep them fresh ,go easy Wingers who buy them we dont want Vile Cybernats stoatin aboot Glesga Green buzzed oot they’re nuts.

  154. ScottishPsyche says:

    I am loving this power the SNP have over the media. 95% of the written media against them. A minority government in a devolved administration with no legislative influence whatsoever over broadcasting or print media yet two MPs in the 3rd party opposition tweet concern and that is apparently all it takes to bring down free speech.

    If only we had known.

  155. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘Jimbo, man, ye’re lookin’ a bit rough the day eh? Been oot oan the terr again son?’
    ‘Naw man, ah wis in aw night, nae bevvy or nothin, just watching yon Olympic pish an sniffin ma passport holder.’
    ‘Oh aye, wan ay yon Wings hingmies?’
    ‘Aye’
    ‘Sortit!’

  156. Dr Jim says:

    The UK borrows money and then assigns some of that debt to Scotland and calls it Scotlands debt, yet Scotland has no borrowing powers, has no power to decide what the UK spends that money on but has to pay the interest it’s told to pay from money it never borrowed or received in the first place

    They say the UK parliament votes on this stuff but they don’t, only the English votes actually count and Scotland is voted down every time because we have not enough MPs, so somebody correct me if I’m wrong but is this burden of debt not forced upon Scotland

    Now if I borrow money from the bank then spruce up my house with it can I assign a portion of that debt to my next door neighbour for increasing the value of his house by making the neighbourhood look better or putting in a new driveway even though he never actually saw any of that money

    I’m no economist, but I’ve got no debt (and no driveway)
    and I certainly wouldn’t dream of charging my next door neighbour for one (or a runway for my plane)and if I did try to charge him for my stuff would’nt he be right to give me a fat lip for my cheek

    OK I’m over simplifying, or am I

  157. Gary45% says:

    Lets hope this is the last year of team Jobee, at the Olympics.
    Here’s to a Scottish team, we may win F all, but at least the Saltire will be carried into the Olympic arena.
    And when someone mentions great achievements in 1966, I can say
    Aye the opening of the Tay Bridge.

  158. Robert Louis says:

    Scotspine at 918pm,

    Soooooo….what are the details of the march/rally on 30th Sept?

  159. scottieDog says:

    Folks the actual commodity price of oil is such s red herring.
    The true value of the substance is far greater. Consider the number of BTUs in a barrel of oil and what it can do for you. A couple of hundred years ago it would have been seen as sorcery.

    In terms of enegry intensity, oil is unsurpassed and probably will be for a long time.

    This is why WM will do all in its power to keep us in the UK and it does worry me thinking of what they will resort to.

    All conflicts boil down to resources and scotland has an embarrassment of these. I include water in this – look at how water stressed the planet is.

    Ask any govt whether they would rather run a military machine on sovereign or imported oil.

  160. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood You must hiv heard of they innovative Scots surely. Wings gives you Lift,or in the case of the new Scottish passports ah high high.

    Kendomacaroon bar will be fawin oot wie me fur not tellin him aboot that marketing ploy fur sellin passports lol.

  161. Grouse Beater says:

    Almost 1,000 hits yesterday, and passing 1,200 now on my essay site, e-mails and tweets galore, a good many from Rowling fans. Hoo haar!

  162. cynicalHighlander says:

    scottieDog I can’t remember whether it’s 4 or 6 men working 12hr shifts for 365 days of the year equals 1 barrel of oil in energy capacity. There are a lot of human man hours in that there black stuff offshore.

  163. cynicalHighlander says:

    OT/ GB

    Could you ask your good lady if she has come across the mysterious figure in the right hand fourth quadrant, next viaduct, on Stu’s Twitter page? Asking for a friend!

  164. Any so called politician or journalist who argues that Scotland will not thrive and prosper when we regain Self Determination is either barking mad, or a paid insurgent, or both.

  165. Graf Midgehunter says:

    KISS – Keep it simple, stupid.

    It is forbidden for Scotland to borrow, it can therefore not create debt.

    Debt is created by London/Westminster not having enough income and spending too much. UK debt.

    London then allocates/apportions a part of the debt to Scotland. (Remember we cannot borrow, it’s forbidden.)

    Everyone apart from the SG, SNP and WOS pretends Scotland has this (fictive) debt.

    Bollocks for the GERS..!

  166. CamernoB Brodie says:

    Big Jock
    I suppose Brixit is a bit like cancer. An abstract concept until the pain kicks in.

    Of course, we can avoid this particular man-made threat to our body politic, if we keep our wits and our nerve.

    Foresight and timing are critical components of success, apparently. 🙂

  167. Tam Jardine says:

    Grouse Beater 

    OT Keep up the great work. I don’t really do twitter but I did see the image of the pyramid in progress and was well impressed. Can I ask where you got the sandstone? I get all Dumfries-ey when I see red sandstone (as I presume it is) as the town was built on the Locharbriggs red stuff.

    Looks Barry anyway- do post a pic when all done (and treat yourself to some excellent liquid)

  168. Grouse Beater says:

    Theresa may and her Brit Neo-Con nationalists are planning a mass rally to celebrate our glorious Olympian medal winners.

    There is documentary footage of mass Olympian rallies I can point her to directed by Leni Riefenstahl. It shows how mass gatherings of adoration should be organised.

    The Britannic propaganda machine ploughs on fuelled by the inglorious bastard electorate.

    By the way, each and every medal cost the British taxpayer £4.5 million to acquire, a sum largely filched from Lottery funds.

  169. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Gary45% (at 10:56 pm.)

    Here’s to a Scottish team, we may win F all, but at least the Saltire will be carried into the Olympic arena.

    This wee video did it for me – the Scotland team’s entrance to the arena at the Commonwealth games in 2014.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BiGV1QuBvc

  170. Alex Clark says:

    The day has almost ended and it’s been a good one. Well for me at least maybe not so much for our revered journalists.

    The poor souls must be crapping themselves. Good, they had it coming. You want to know why Scotland will become Independent?

    Just ask the liars that we no longer trust. Hell mend them.

  171. Capella says:

    @ Tinto Chiel – I was a Fleetwood Mac fan the first time around! Also had the Peter Green recording on a Blues compilation “Ain’t Nothin’ But the Blues” RCA International. It was just lucky that somebody has uploaded it to youtube.

  172. yesindyref2 says:

    Ah yes, GERS.

    Unionists are saying it’s been brought forward from March so as not to gloom and doom the council elections. Which would put it just before the summer Independence campaign. Oh. Strange.

    But it could be as a result of the GERS consultations asking for it to be published earlier (if they did). But who knows, it could be because it’s managed to do some more attributing of non-attributable expenditure – and revenues, so could it be better than the Unionists hope, better for Scotland that is?

    I daresay in any case the blunt crayon will be drawing pretty graphs with downward lines. Loads of them!

  173. Fireproofjim says:

    Cynical highlander
    A good way consider how much energy there is in oil is to realise that a forty gallon barrel of petrol will propel a typical loaded family car, weighing the best part of a ton, for sixteen hundred miles.
    That is about the distance from Edinburgh to Gibraltar.
    That is a lot of energy.

  174. Grouse Beater says:

    Tam Jardine: “Can I ask where you got the sandstone?”

    You can! 🙂

    It isn’t sandstone. It’s rock.

    It has to be hard rock for gabions. Sandstone is too light and too susceptible to water degradation to hold back a hillside slope. It comes from a quarry in Haddington.

  175. Cactus says:

    D’ye ever get fed up with what u hear on ur televisual broadcast..

    And we created it!

    SCOTLAND!

  176. Taranaich says:

    One side-effect of the independence referendum is that GERS becomes less and less valuable as time goes on – especially if one argues that GERS represents what Scotland “would” be like if it was a Yes vote in 2014.

    What they’re arguing is that if the official result was a Yes, and GERS showed an accurate reflection of Scotland’s finances, then they’re arguing absolutely nothing would have changed. And that becomes more and more ridiculous as time goes on, as it suggests not only did things not change from the first indy-Scotland equivalent, but that it wouldn’t change in any of the subsequent GERS.

    It’s just stupid.

  177. Cactus says:

    Glasgow Green.

    18.09.2016

    Don’t forget that date.

    That’s ur history, that’s our Glasgow Green.

  178. Tam Jardine says:

    Alex Clark

    Been grafting tonight so not caught up on the whining of the bams (or this thread).

    A wee aside on my day (and I would say straight off the bat that the cities, towns and villages outwith the centres of Glasgow and Edinburgh need investment, attention and love).

    I took the best bus service in the UK from leith to waverley (the only station I know of named after a novel) to a station recently renovated. I took the train through with no problems to centre of Glasgow to a recently renovated/electrified station, passing the recently renovated Hay market station.

    Glasgow was jumping- gay pride on I think. My bairns danced in Freedom Square and they ate for nothing at Jamie Oliver’s restaurant on George Square.

    I took the tube (freshly open and running well) to kelvinbridge. Great Western Road was beautiful, with the kelvin bathed in sunlight and the verdant leafy streets seemingly oblivious to any chaos or disorder in the universe.

    We didn’t have time after visiting friends to take in the Gallery of Modern Art, or the big Kelvin museum or go back to the amazing transport museum. It’s funny Alex- my son calls it Scotland- “we’re going through to Scotland he says.

    After an amazing flying visit we took the train back and arrived in probably the most amazing place to be on holiday right now (if you are into that kind of thing)- Edinburgh was fookin buzzing with folk from all walks of life and all countries having a great time and no doubt spending an absolute fortune.

    This wee description merely serves as a reminder when we are told we are shite and our economy is 20 billion in the red…. from this amateur’s opinion there is good stuff happening and we have strengths most countries would bite our hand off for.

    Salut Alex- braw to address you direct.

    PS finally sitting down to an embra pinto Innis and Gunn. May be followed by one of our many gins or whiskies. I love this Scotland of ours.

  179. Cactus says:

    Vroom vroom!

    Yes.

  180. carjamtic says:

    Four Fokker’s

    1) Those suffering from Cognitive Dissonance — the intellectual crisis that occurs when a failed belief system or philosophy (UKOK) is confronted with proof of its implausibility.

    2) The Innumerate’s, the people who truly disrespect a legitimate process of looking at the data and making intelligent assessments. They are mathematical illiterates who embarrassingly revel in their own ignorance.

    3) The Political Manipulators, who cynically know what they peddle is nonsense, but nonetheless push the stuff because it is effective. These folks are more committed to their ideology and bonuses than the good of Scotland.

    4) The Paid Hacks, who are being paid to hold a certain view. As has been well noted, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

    “The denying of reality has been an issue, from Galileo to Columbus to modern times. Reality always triumphs eventually, but there are very real costs to it occurring later versus sooner.”…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMmiNeVrbDk

  181. Cactus says:

    Can I get some loud..?

    Talkin’ to you Mr McCabe dude ?

    Ecosse.

  182. Tam Jardine says:

    Grouse Beater

    Haddington rock eh? The difference between rock and stone will need to wait for another night. Anyway- hats off brother.

  183. Alex Clark says:

    @Grouse Beater

    Reminds me. Where is Rock hiding out these days? Sorely missed.

  184. cynicalHighlander says:

    Fireproofing the problem with that analogy is that it takes a few barrels of oil to get that amount of petrol depending on the grade, heavy through to light. Barrel is c42(US) gals from which they get about 19 gals petrol.

  185. Toby Lerone says:

    In Dr Craig Dalzell’s article, would the following be classed as mostly money spent outside of, but “on behalf of”, Scotland ?

    Below is the number of gov.uk Departments, agencies and public bodies
    26 Ministerial departments
    21 Non ministerial departments
    376 Agencies and other public bodies
    78 High profile groups
    10 Public corporations
    511 in total

    see https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations

    I don’t know how many people are employed in these organisations,
    but I’m guessing that very few are employed in Scotland.

  186. Cactus says:

    With each passing medal.. Belarus sounds like things.. Huge..

  187. Cactus says:

    Fuckin’ Scotland right now..

    Thought that was necessary 😉

  188. Alex Clark says:

    @Cactus

    It’s coming brother. Ken.

  189. carjamtic says:

    I hate when a link disnae work….Rogue One trailer feat Beastie Boys.

    Maybe YouTube has taken it down ?

    😉

  190. Cactus says:

    18.09.16

  191. Alex Clark says:

    No worries Cactus, we are on top can’t you tell?

  192. cynicalHighlander says:

    Drums! You want drums.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AODrbE629Io

  193. Cactus says:

    Aye!

  194. Cactus says:

    Anybuddy ever been to Freedom Green before.. let’s call it.

    Bring ur dogs, bring ur cats, bring ur chinchilla’s..

    It’s a family affair x

  195. Cactus says:

    We are Scotland.

  196. Still Positive. says:

    As others have said up thread, I wouldn’t care if we were poor for a bit after indy – I believed in Independence before we discovered oil.

    I do, however, want to live in an indy Scotland before I die and I want to see my children and grandchildren prosper more in an indy Scotland.

    All my income comes from the public sector- mainly the UK govt.

  197. Cactus says:

    Yes!

  198. CameornB Brodie says:

    “Cargo Cults” – A fundamental characteristic of cargo cult ‘science’ (the mythology produced to explain the apparently inexpiable), is that it projects a false impression of scientific integrity.

    This makes me think of the guff pedaled by Scotland’s postmodern witch-doctors.

  199. CameronB Brodie says:

    unexplainable not inexpiable, soz.

  200. K1 says:

    inexplicable is what you were going for Cameron, wis jist the l and c missing 😉

  201. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not calling Scotland’s civil service hocus pocus merchants btw, they are the ones who sell GERS as being of more than limited value as a tool of understanding. It is, after all, a tool of domination.

    A third concept that is important in Bourdieu’s theory is the idea of ‘fields’, which are the various social and institutional arenas in which people express and reproduce their dispositions, and where they compete for the distribution of different kinds of capital (Gaventa 2003: 6). A field is a network, structure or set of relationships which may be intellectual, religious, educational, cultural, etc. (Navarro 2006: 18). People often experience power differently depending which field they are in at a given moment (Gaventa 2003: 6), so context and environment are key influences on habitus:

    http://www.powercube.net/other-forms-of-power/bourdieu-and-habitus/

  202. CameronB Brodie says:

    K1
    #ignorantcybernat 🙂

  203. Sandy says:

    Note:
    (Scottish) hydrocarbons:
    Depending on the viscosity (light or heavy crude) of the above, please realise that apart from petrol/diesel/heating oil, there are many, many by-products which go into a vast variety of commodities/items of everyday use.

  204. Grouse Beater says:

    Alex: “Where is Rock hiding out these days? Sorely missed.

    He got told to behave. In any event, he’d already arrived at a point anything posted was ignored or ridiculed.

  205. Grouse Beater says:

    Tam Jardine: “The difference between rock and stone will need to wait for another night.”

    The rock is granite-like and twice as heavy, impervious to water and to breaking up under load.

  206. ScottieDog says:

    @still positive
    “As others have said up thread, I wouldn’t care if we were poor for a bit after indy – I believed in Independence before we discovered oil.”

    But we are not poor. Infact we are indeed wealthy.
    The wealth of a country is determined by what it’s ability to extract it’s domestic resources plus its ability to import that which it cannot produce itself.

    The reason we cannot unlock that wealth is because we don’t have control of our own means of exchange – I.e CURRENCY. It really is that simple.

    I have said up-thread already that if people really understood money today we would be independent by now.

    We are waiting for the hail of bullets regarding GERS and I for one take very little notice of GERS because we have little control over our resources or currency so it is irrelevant. I understand that the SNP had to produce something for indyref1 but I see it as a burden.

    Going forward, we will only reach our potential by having a sovereign floating currency otherwise we won’t really be independent.

    What unionists gloss over when gloating about spending gaps (deficits) is that the highest PAYE comes from the banking sector. That sector was bailed out by a public body to the tune of £1 trillion. So these tax receipts are government funded. What’s worse is that the same sector is continuing to destroy the UK economy by further inflating asset bubbles which will result in another financial crisis further burdening theublic purse.

  207. Tinto Chiel says:

    “I’m no rocket scientist and I’m not a trained semiotician. I’m also a good few years out of the habit, so I’ll decline the challenge, if you don’t mind. ?”

    Pity, Cameron. I always enjoy your contributions, although I struggle to understand them.

    “Tool of domination.”

    David Mundell? 😛

  208. Tam Jardine @12.15.
    We feel your love.
    I observed earlier that Unionists who constantly lie about Scotland and its wealth and potential are barking and havering, which is coincidentally also a district in Southern England.
    We live jn a smashing wee country, don’t we?

  209. heedtracker says:

    Start the week the UKOK way, staggering get Corbyn BBC attack propaganda this morning, Kez everywhere with her radio 4 friend Nic Robinson coaxing out all the many reasons she says JC is bad. Cant remember any of them though, he’s not a unifieriser says Kez and Scotland’s different for SLab but Kez didn’t say why or maybe she did. I was listening very hard too. If Nic Robinson wasn’t a staggeringly biased toryboy, he could have asked Kez what red
    tories like Dunc here are all going to do if JC wins? But he didn’t.

    Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 4m
    Owen Smith can unite the Labour Party better than Jeremy Corbyn can, says @kezdugdale. And she’s right.

  210. ScottishPsyche says:

    How much has the UK borrowed against future oil reserves? Could this a reason why there is no incentive to extract oil just now as it is worth more in the North Sea than out of it?

    Also is this the one of the many reasons why the UK Treasury fears independence so much, that a lot of their debt is financed against a resource they won’t own?

  211. Another Union Dividend says:

    Brian Monteith in Hootsman on about GERS deficit to which he is adding Scotland’s £140 billion share of huge UK debt.

    Of course he forgot to mention that during the Referendum campaign the UK government guaranteed to honour this debt in full in event of independence.

    Strange that no one ever mentions The UK National Government Assets which has not been compiled since 2007 and to which Scotland would be entitled to 8.4%.

  212. Sinky says:

    Oh the irony on GMS this morning…leader of one party council breakaway group talking about a one party state.

    When will the BBC show some balance and give a ten minute platform to a pro Corbyn figure?

    Following Andrew Burns another leading light in Edinburgh Labour Lesley Hinds leaves the sinking ship.

  213. ronnie anderson says:

    @ cynical highlander.

    you want drums

    Norvege has it by klms

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHXNaYoguNU

  214. The Rough Bounds says:

    Got up this morning and after breakfast checked out Facebook and then took a dekko at Wings. I took one look at that Times headline and just felt my heart slump. It’s sickening.

    Is this what their game is? To turn us into a nation of saddened, pessimistic depressives? It won’t turn me against independence but it sure does make me detest the British media and Unionists even more than I thought possible.

    The Freedom movement has given the Scots hope for the first time in 300 years. And hope is the one thing that Unionists detest more than any other, because it inspires, and that is the last thing that the people who publish the Times want to see among the Scots.

  215. Macart says:

    @Tam Jardine 12.15

    Aye, it’s no a bad place t’be. 🙂

  216. ronnie anderson says:

    test test disappearing post again, ffsaky

  217. Ronnie, I now Save my comments before posting. The MIB speed editing and deleting?
    Whaur’s Fox and Muldaur when you need them?

  218. call me dave says:

    Deputy Deadwood on shortbread radio this morning… bliss!

    “I’m not here to throw bricks at Jeremy” she says… Aye right!

    PS:
    “First and foremost, I know what it takes to run a campaign. I know what the demands of the job are, the skills that are required, the discipline that is required. That leads me to the conclusion that Owen is better placed than Jeremy”.

    https://archive.is/NOJUL

    Corbyn has been in politics as an MP since 1983 whereas our Kezia born in 1981 and was elected as a labour MSP in 2011.

    Funny old world init! 🙂

  219. Fred says:

    Very good thread this! Mundell is just the wee Wizard of Oz behind the curtain.

    @ Valerie, hope you caught the Alba prog’ on the Achill islanders burnt in the Kirkintilloch fire which was on last week. Terrible business.

    Glad to see Tommy Sheridan appears to have won his case at last, hope that’s the end of it. Tommy isn’t everybody’s cup of tea but his handling of two audience’s at Victoria’s night club during the Ref’ while also speaking to another lot on the street who couldn’t get in, was just a marvel. A highlight of the campaign for me.

  220. Schrödinger's Dog says:

    To be honest last time anyone mentioned GERS to me, I asked for the £50 I loaned them, “what £50?” They asked, oh you mentioned you believed GERS so I took you for a financial idiot, and thought I would take you for a ride too!
    My mates don’t mention GERS to me anymore.

    I did notice that Kevin the dog food salesman, was talking to a friend last week, and working him self up ready to scream how shite Scotland is. I think that man lucky he lives in Scotland, in other countries they tar and feather boys like him.

    Also interesting to note that the Labour Party have abandoned another shibboleth, collective bargaining, the unions will be happy! As surely what is good for labour council is good for their employees, so if you’re pay rate is by collectively arrangements go to your council boss and demand a rise if you work for the breakaway 4. Kezia is too busy stabbing her leader in the back to worry about the Unions anyway, I thought she was on a course for leadership skills, must have been at the Et Tu Brute school of Machiavellian political theory.
    Hopefully she brought a bone back for me! A dug is ever hopeful.

  221. heedtracker says:

    http://archive.is/QBSRx

    Graun piles on poor old JC again. Who knows what Kez will do if JC wins. She’s gets nice photos in all UKOK press though, beatific in fact but it is all for the saving of their farce union.

    Dr NO! says read this in the Sun, we have got to be more mature seems to be today’s red and blue SNP bad meme, this from a church elder, does God take the Sun?

    http://archive.is/ZG6Tq

    Church elder says be more mature vile seps because the White paper was also bad and

    “It was utter, utter cobblers but it fitted with Alex Salmond’s vision of the independence project.
    Simply by voting Yes, we could have ensured a chicken in every pot, public fountains flowing with Buckfast and free electricity for every home, running off treadmills powered by galloping unicorns.

    Very mature, from the church elders of the Scotland region.

  222. Scott says:

    What will the Navy do now if a ship breaks down this is not being reported in MSM.

    http://on.rt.com/7n6b

  223. Grouse Beater says:

    The Times lackey, Farquharson, tossed a comment I made to his dogs on Twitter. They duly responded.

    Interesting to experience a right-wing journalist in action.

  224. DerekM says:

    Hey think of GERS as a distraction for poor Kev the dog food salesman,making up his barking mad graphs will help take his mind of his company being broke.

    Love the title of this Rev for some reason it made me think of this tune lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrlhLaNClgw

  225. Sinky says:

    Privately-run Addiewell prison looks set to cost taxpayers almost £1 billion – more than 12 times what it cost to build.

    Details of the bill for the West Lothian jail – built a decade ago under the controversial Private Finance Initiative (PFI) model – were revealed after a parliamentary question by Nationalist MSP Fulton MacGregor.

    Colin McConnell, chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service, revealed that the estimated cost of the 25-year agreement with Sodexo Justice Services would be £955 million as part of a deal brokered by the then Labour and Lib Dem administration.

    http://archive.is/C8ezX

  226. Hamish100 says:

    BBC Scotland on bad PFI. It is bad by the way. Any mention of who introduced and supports pfi? Of course not.

    then we have tory/ukippy fisherman leader on. Fishermen sold down the river– sorry for the pun, When we entered the common market– courtesy of the tories. They will take back control– to Westminster, who sold them down the river in the first place.

  227. galamcennalath says:

    Fred says:

    “Tommy isn’t everybody’s cup of tea … highlight of the campaign for me.”

    I think the highlight for me was Jean Freeman when I heard her live and when she destroyed Andrew Neil in an interview (still on YouTube).

    Different political figures appeal to different people. Jeez, Davidson is popular in some sections of voters!

    IMO opinion there are two general approaches to winning IndyRef2.

    Firstly get the YES areas, social demographics, and younger people off their arses and down to the polling stations in the same numbers as NO voters turned out.

    Secondly convert soft NO voters by convincing them that post Brexit UK is not what they were previously promised and their personal circumstances would NOW be better served by Indy.

    Sheridan will play a positive role in the first. The second requires a carefully crafted don’t scare the horses vision for an independent Scotland – fairer, more just, more democratic, more accountable – but not so far to the left as Sheridan would like, and often proposes.

    He should for one thing drop the ‘comrades’ nonsense.

    We need a vision which a majority will back.

    We mustn’t fall into a trap of motivating one group to vote YES, but scaring others to stick with NO.

  228. heedtracker says:

    Lunch with my Slovene girlfriend today, and I am daring to call it a one party state, oh yes I am, daring

    Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins Aug 19
    But don’t you dare call the SNP’s Scotland a one party state. Don’t you dare.

    Adam Tomkins MSP Retweeted
    Alan Roden ?@AlanRoden 3h
    Trial “Named Person” schemes are “unlawful”, according to legal advice obtained by campaigners.

    Only annoying thingee now about the far right teamGBists like Roden and Aliesbabdas, is that everything they print is a load of “utter, utter cobblers.” So is it based on fact or just UKOK roasters stuff and can it be illegal er law?

    Hope God can see I have taken UKOK church elder Andrew Nicoll’s advice on grown up and mature comments now. What a friend we have in cheesecake, British cheesecake, not Scottish, right God?

  229. @Grouse Beater

    always thought Farquharson was one of the nastiest of the Hacks of Yoon,

    not as articulate in his Yoonery as the others,

    so makes up for that in bullying,intimidation and below the belt commentary.

  230. heedtracker says:

    BBC r4 lunchtime news, torboy says its NOT actually more money that’s made teamGEnglandB win so many more Olympic medals like they didn’t use to, its them investing in “cycles”. Really wish I was a toryboy sometimes as the toryboy signs off by getting BBC gimp to kiss his ring. Tasty.

    Sir Hugh Michael Robertson KCMG PC DL, is the Vice Chairman of The British Olympic Association. He was formerly a British Conservative Party politician who was the Member of Parliament for Faversham and Mid Kent from 2001 to 2015. Wikipedia
    Born: October 9, 1962 (age 53), Canterbury
    Spouse: Anna Robertson (m. 2002)
    Party: Conservative Party
    Succeeded by: Tobias Ellwood
    Service/branch: British Army
    Unit: Life Guards
    Education: University of Reading, Royal Military Academy Sandhurst

  231. robertknight says:

    “Here come the drums”…

    Followed by the flags…

    Then the uniforms…

    Oh wait, Yoons and their imported fuglies done that already…

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29189287

  232. Alex Clark says:

    @heedtracker

    Tobias Ellwood you say. That’s just what this country needs. A lot more Tobys telling us how the bedroom tax is progressive.

    Now stop posting lies. Just shut up and eat your cereal.

  233. Bell says:

    I’ve just completed a survey prompted by the Herald’s website as I’ve got an ad-blocker running.

    “Q2: Did you know that we rely on advertising revenue to pay our editorial teams to provide our readers local journalism and that without that revenue, we cannot provide this service?”

    my response: “if the standard of journalism wasn’t so piss-poor, perhaps you’d sell papers and you wouldn’t have to rely on click-bait-sourced internet traffic for funding.”

    I expect this will be interpreted as an attempt by ruthless cybernat to impede journalistic freedom.

  234. heedtracker says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    22 August, 2016 at 12:11 pm
    The Times lackey, Farquharson, tossed a comment I made to his dogs on Twitter. They duly responded.

    Is that the same henchman in Euan McSpanner’s UKOK twitteratti mob, who says he’s “I’ve been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate, a poet, a pawn and a king.” just not an actual journalist. To be fair Rupert’s never been that fussy.

    Kenny Farquharson Retweeted
    David Clegg ?@davieclegg 5h5 hours ago
    Politicians lobbying against journos they don’t like isn’t new. Mind when Lab tried to get us to dump

    Who knew the assorted hacks of teamGB in Scotland were such a bunch wilting lillies or is it lilly’s.

  235. Breeks says:

    If you ever doubt the progress we are making, just read back through the above comments. It doesn’t need to be this thread, or even Wings. It’s everywhere, and seldom even challenged. Social media is peppered with references to the corrupt media and BBC; but then take a wee moment to cast your mind back a wee while.

    As late as 2013 and first half of 2014 before the YES referendum, people were complaining to the BBC Commissioners because the BBC had the effrontery to remove the BTL comments from Scottish articles. Oh the scandal!

    Things have moved on a bit I’d say. What was the norm has changed.

    We still have a long way to go, and there is no room for complacency, but you can be sure, positively certain, there is no going back.

    “I once was lost but now am found, was blind, but now I see”.

  236. heedtracker says:

    This more like it. The Ligger loves a scrap, although it goes without saying that toryboy BBC has a complete blackout on any SNP MP’s at all being even mentioned on their BBC, unless its bad.

    Neil and McColm, Rupert’s hired goons in bettertogether action.

    Andrew Neil ?@afneil Aug 21
    Euan McColm: Failing to back journalists puts free speech in danger

  237. heedtracker says:

    Ligger’s got a point, they’re only doing what WM and Murdoch dictates.

    Andrew Neil ?@afneil Aug 20
    Andrew Neil Retweeted David Crayton
    Drivel tweet in its purest form. Well done.Andrew Neil added,
    David Crayton @doufous
    @afneil @mckinlay_liz This’s becoming tedious,anyone with 1 working braincell would know MSM wont do what SNP ask,they do what WM dictates

  238. Neil Cook says:

    Instead of billboards I reckon you get somebody like Chris to do a Scottish banksy on derelict buildings. That way we can get a social media storm going with all the murals and that way people may see the truth !

  239. heedtracker says:

    Followed by the flags…

    Then the uniforms…

    In the good old days, you could ad to and change wiki entries for anything, so it was always fun to slot in the fact that William of Orange invented the orange, and his mate Arthur Tangerene invented the banana.

  240. shug says:

    60 years ago Scotland was producing around 30-40% of the worlds shipping,produced cars lorries bridges with all the supporting infrastructure. For 30 of these 60 years we were the 13th largest oil producer in the world.

    Now we produce very little and have a limited infrastructure and you can’t drive 100 yards without hitting a pot hole, thanks to London government.

    Then they tell us we have a deficit!!
    This deficit is a reflection of appalling bad government
    This is a reflection of their incompetence
    It is time for a major change

  241. call me dave says:

    Quiet day again, so here’s a starter for 10:

    Labour council’s last stand before the elections it seems.

    Four Labour run councils threaten First Minister Nicola Sturgeon with court action over cuts.

    https://archive.is/Udy4e

    PS:

    PFI schools and hospitals scandal on GMS earlier but radio shortbread was a bit light on who started it and ended by telling the dwindling listenership that Mr Swinney had been invited to speak but had declined to appear. 🙁

  242. Alex Clark says:

    @Breeks

    The most obvious sign of BBC bias ever was their refusal to allow comments on any article about Scotland or it’s politics. I couldn’t believe that. Comment on any other article was fine. Not in their Scotland region though. Why?

    Before comments were BANNED the lying bastards were being held to account. They didn’t like it then and their partners in the Dead Tree Press obviously don’t like it now. The Daisley carry on for me is laughable. It’s good though it highlights just how they all band together. Look at Torrence! The poor soul who wrote a biography of Alex Salmond without even talking to him.

    It would be funny maybe but it’s just a fucking joke.

    I will not be silenced, neither will you. We’re winning, well done you all for refusing to take in their propaganda.

  243. g nicholson says:

    Dear Stu

    It’s certainly a hate fest out there.

    Nicola’s Bosnian trip.

    The cost of the Bosnia trip to the Scottish taxpayer.

    Even the sunglasses she carries.What a sad world we live in.

  244. bjsalba says:

    Oil slump?

    So what exactly is the oil price these days?

  245. Proud Cybernat says:

    So, London borrows money Scotland doesn’t want or need, spends it everywhere but in Scotland and then sends us their debt.

    http://imgur.com/a/gp7jq

    And people still think GERS is meaningfull?

    Open your eyes people of Scotland. You and your country are being fleeced stupid.

  246. Robert Peffers says:

    @call me dave says: 22 August, 2016 at 11:26 am:

    “Deputy Deadwood on shortbread radio this morning… bliss!
    “I’m not here to throw bricks at Jeremy” she says… Aye right!”

    That might just be because her weapon of choice is breeze Blocks instead of bricks.

  247. Col says:

    If I remember correctly, the BBC in their Scotland region stopped us commenting on things Scottish when it became clear there would be a referendum on independence.

  248. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 22 August, 2016 at 12:01 pm:

    ” … Very mature, from the church elders of the Scotland region.”

    Let’s face it, heedtracker, these guys start with a great handicap. In spite of there not ever being a shred of evidence to the contrary, these guys believe in superior beings that they cannot see, smell, touch or otherwise detect as existing in any shape or form.

    If they believe that then it predisposes them to have inferiority complexes/ Furthermore, if they believe such cock & bull stories, they are predisposed to believe almost anything – except perhaps in independence for their own country.

  249. davidb says:

    @ Scott 12:08

    We could crowdsource and offer them £100 for the ship. Future use would be the repair at sea of Republic Of Scotland naval vessels.

    🙂

  250. heedtracker says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    22 August, 2016 at 4:46 pm
    @heedtracker says: 22 August, 2016 at 12:01 pm:

    Twas this plant that put me on to the Sun’s church elder cringer, telling YESers to be mature, then immediately descending into all the usual juvenilia what makes yoon culture so barking mad/completely fine. Money’s money, whether youre believer or not.

    Its just that old Scotch cringer thing that grates with twerps like this. Whatever you say about Scotland, we certainly produce some of the finest cringers in the world today, red or blue tory and the God squads.

    Scott Arthur Retweeted Duncan Hothersall

    Will they be using Scottish ingredients? Scott Arthur added,

    Duncan Hothersall @dhothersall
    Outrage as it turns out Scots were over-represented in #GBBO last year, and Northern Irish completely missing. BBC_criticised_as_new_Great_British_Bake_Off_series_contains_no_Scots/ …

  251. Dr Jim says:

    I’ll see yer Gers and raise you a Cuthbert

  252. Legerwood says:

    Brent Crude at $49.34 at the moment

  253. Macbeda says:

    @davidb 5:02 pm

    We could run a rent a ship repair just off Portsmouth when our ships are all ok.

    Cost them mind you, got to pay in Scots Merks, hard cash, no cheques.

  254. Meindevon says:

    Sitting looking out on the beautiful Moray Forth, having had the most amazing, fabulous,wondrous few days traveling around this brill wee friendly country. Still wondering why we have folk who think we can’t run it all on our own.
    PS..called into Aye shop in Fort William for a wee chat, hi guys!

  255. Karmanaut says:

    So GERS will prove that Scotland shouldn’t be given control of its own economy?

    Not sure how that logic works exactly.

    p.s. This Daisley thing. The Yoon media bubbletariat seem to be getting more delusional and frenzied as time goes on, and yet it seems to me that they’re not able to stir up the reaction they once could. Mostly now they just get ridiculed.

  256. Stoker says:

    Big shouty plea to all the troops:

    ((((( GAUNY STOAP CHYNGIN YER AVITARS )))))

    Good to see Alex Clark reinstate what i’ve come to associate with him but Ian (B) whit happened to that deep in contemplation dude. You now look like the burglar who’s discovered the CCTV.

    CynicalHighlander, please, please, please and a million times please change back to that wee balaclava clad internet warrior, it wiz wan o ma favourites.

    Jeez, before you know it Paula Rose will have changed to a pair of rigger boots and Jim Thomson will have become a Friesian coo.
    🙂

    BTW, galamcennalath, i think yours is a good change.
    😉

  257. Did someone say ‘Plan B’?

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14695529.Meet_the_man_behind_Scotcoin___the_digital_currency_promising_not_just_loose_change_but_a_political_revolution/?ref=mr&lp=20

    To claim your 1000 free Scotcoins and help kick start the crypto revolution in Scotland visit http://scotcoinproject.com/contact/

    fill in the form and add the magic words “Sunday Herald Offer” – as well as any other comments you may have. We have had an incredible response to this offer so please allow 5-7 working days till we get your coins to you.
    Meantime, your comments will be very welcome at

    forum.scotcoinproject.com

  258. Alex Clark says:

    Meantime, your comments will be very welcome at

    forum.scotcoinproject.com

    Naw. I doubt you would welcome a comment from me.

  259. ronnie anderson says:

    whits the exchange rate oan that scotcoin ah kin exchange ma bawbee’s if the rates good.

  260. K1 says:

    Anyone up for a quick advisory on whether this Scotcion thing is worth getting involved in?

  261. caledonia says:

    See tesco are getting panned for removing scottish flag from strawberries in scotland because of a few complaints frpm england

  262. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Nicola Sturgeon pointed out its failings at yesterday’s press conference. (Funnily enough, all the same ones we’ve highlighted.)



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