Did we miss a meeting?
Here’s Neil Findlay MSP on this morning’s Andrew Marr Show:
Wait, what?
This is what the Scottish Labour leadership candidate said:
“Andrew, it’s already Labour Party policy in Scotland to oppose the renewal of Trident. Has been for some time.”
Marr didn’t challenge the claim, but we suspect it’s going to come as something of a shock to the Labour Party. Infamously, when seeking the “leadership” Johann Lamont steadfastly refused to say what her own position was, let alone that of the party. When she got the job and was eventually pressed to clarify policy by a Scottish journalist (a mere 18 months later), the resulting trainwreck of mumbling, incoherent evasion gave English teachers nightmares for months trying to decipher it.
Scottish Labour’s 2011 Holyrood election manifesto had this to say on the subject:
The party’s 2010 Westminster election manifesto draws a similar blank on the word “Trident”, but page 69 does contain the passage “a Strategic Defence Review will look at all areas of defence, but we will maintain our independent nuclear deterrent”.
Since that review, Jim Murphy – the former Defence Secretary and the bookmakers’ odds-on favourite to win the Scottish leadership election – has stated many times on the record that Labour backs both retention and renewal of Trident.
Even the Daily Record, the mouthpiece of Labour in Scotland, stated unequivocally earlier this year that “Labour are committed to renewal of the nuclear deterrent”.
Findlay himself, despite telling Marr that “I don’t think we should be renewing Trident”, has in fact never backed any anti-Trident motion at Holyrood, having either opposed, abstained or not voted on every one brought to the chamber:
We look forward to official news of any policy revisions. In the meantime, perhaps someone at Labour Party headquarters in London should have a quiet word with Neil Findlay before he accidentally tells the people of Scotland any more untruths.
Scary stuff. But it’s what all the top red Tories did throughout the referendum campaign, starting with future Lord’s Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling too. Will Scottish Labour voters tolerate a second massive fraud dumped on them by the likes of the BBC in Scotland for the next 6 months?
Vote Labour in Scotland, make them all rich beyond your wildest dreams.
My jaw just dropped open.
Of course Andrew Marr let him get away with that one oh so easily.
Neil Findlay – Labour “politician” = LIAR.
Oh dear. There really is an irreconcilable split between the Scottish and Westminster branch. No wonder they were keeping their policy a secret – even from their family in Londinium.
Something to do with this maybe?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11233496/SNP-name-their-price-abandon-Trident-to-put-Miliband-in-Downing-Street.html
Labour MSP tells a lie on “national” television, shocker.
Where this Labour (North British Branch) narrative is headed, with the full might of the Scottish media including the BBC, helping to broadcast it, is as clear as the Fairy Pools on Skye.
With an avalanche of evidence now presented, Labour (North British Branch) are going on an offensive of double speak, bullshit & lies that contradicts every soundbite, phrase, commitment & promise they have made over the last several years.
Thus, the accusatory “something for nothing” speech, means testing for prescriptions, elimination of bus passes for the elderly, introduction of student fees etc. will all get airbrushed out of Labour’s recent history.
This is a desperate tactic to recapture the electorate which they lost before, during & after the independence referendum as they philospohically chose to abandon their founding principles while simultaneously standing side by side with a political party (Conservatives) which they themselves should have considered abhorrant.
I’m just not sure which is going to tell the bigger lies in the next 6 months, Labour (North British Branch) or the media.
It could be that we are starting to witness some free thought within some parts of the Scottish branch. They can’t be that incoherent and disarticulated surely?
Neil Findlay would get some respect if he started to show some backbone and perhaps there is a whiff of that starting to show through the carefully controlled manipulation exercised by London. If I were Neil, I wouldn’t relish the fact of behaving like some glorified glove puppet with the hand of London permanently stuck up my backside, dictating my every movement and utterance.
Well, Neil, I hope you’re reading this, because you have the opportunity to be yet another Sooty and Sweep or you can grow a pair and start acting like a real man for a change.
Maybe Neil Findlay forgot their policy on Trident. Maybe Milliband hasn’t let the Northern Branch of the London Labour Party know what their policy is yet!
@Paul, yes, perhaps it is no coincidence that Nicola named her price for Labour support at conference.
Doesn’t it make you sick, even knowing it’s the norm, that no one from SNP was on after their conference?
I’d like to be a fly on the wall when the Eggman hears Findlay has announced new policy on WMD, very appropriate, as well, with the Clyde in the background of Findlay.
Another day, another Labour farce.
Sounds like Neil should join the SNP?
Well if ever we needed evidence that the political parties were gonna lie again over Scotlands future decision making, then this is it. Its disgusting the way london politics messes with scottish politics. We must all of us vote for SNP and for a change let us go to london and mess with them directly, see how they like it.
Mc Ternan has just clarified on twitter that “unless Neil Findlay is running for leader of the labour party his views on Trident are irrelevant”, pretty much says it all really. They can’t even keep their story straight for 2 hours.
So John McTeran has admitted Labour politicians can tell what ever lies they want, it does not matter, as long as they are not ‘running for Leader of the Labour Party.’
If that is not a licence to let Labour and the Biased BBC Scotland to crap all over Scotland at every opportunity and get away with it, I don’t know what is.
Are we really still that stupid to let these people ruin our lives.
FFS Scotland wake up.
It’s like the Referendum all over again. SLAB in a complete panic and prepared to say anything to secure a cross in their box on a ballot paper. Headquarters is presumably prepared to allow the Branch Office to say whatever the hell it likes to secure a recovery in their position safe in the knowledge that if, by some miracle, Labour wins the GE then it can just renege on any SLAB pledges on the basis that it was not rUKLAB policy. We must all vote SNP to ensure the sods don’t get away with it.
I think it’s time Neil Findlay finally came out of the closet and admitted that he is really wanting to become a member of the SNP.
Every time he opens his mouth regarding his wishes for a future Scotland, you would swear they were interviewing a member of the SNP policy committee.
One thing that he can be assured of, is that if he stays with Scottish Labour, not one of his policies will be fulfilled.
C’mon Neil, join a winning team, join the SNP.
Any chance if we get some official clarification of labour policy they could maybe fling in the membership numbers while they are at it.. 🙂
@Giving Goose, if Findlay has an IQ in double figures, then of course he knows he is applying for a job as a glove puppet! If he doesn’t then he is a sweet little guy who has been asleep for months.
If he dislikes Trident, why haven’t we heard this Slab policy before as it’s been their policy for some time??? He needs to cross the floor surely?
caz-m, please do not encourage him, I want those lying B’s to stay where they are, not one of them can be trusted to recognise the truth even if it bit them on the erse.
Voters will just need to ask themselves what the point of listening to him is when London will never allow him to push an anti-Trident policy anyway. Easy for him (and any other SLAB politician) to claim ‘ah well, we’d like to get rid but it’s that London HQ, you see….’. If you want rid of Trident and live in Scotland, vote in the GE for a party that is actually free to pursue its own policies in a practical sense. Anything SLAB says will forever remain theoretical at best, and a lie at worst.
@caz-m we posted at the same time! Another thing is if Findlay has got the Unions support, then he needs to move to SNP, who have a larger Trade Union group now. They are the party who will restore workers rights.
It all makes sense though, Scotland votes for independence 18th Sept so Gordon Brown tells them anything to stop them. Tell them vote No and get a devo maxed federal UK and call it The Vow, via the fraudsters at the BBC, Record etc. That worked. So now tell them Tridents gone if the suckas vote Labour. Why not, it worked in September and the BBC are marvellous at this sort of thing.
Ye’d huv tae get the Finnieston Crann tae get Jackie Bailey untangled aff frae the Trident embrace first.
Well did we really need McTernan to clarify his balloon status? It’s ok to lie? Now it’s official guys!
They really are just making it up as they go along.
I suspect that his career as Leader of the Scottish Labour Branch has just come to an abrupt halt.
The wheels are coming off the Labour Party vehicle, pull up a chair and get the nibbles.
What a Muppet. Findlay crossed my path in a previous life and I can say unequivocally, that he is as thick as a brick. Not helped mind you by, a kind of Manchurian Candidate style psychological conditioning they get in SLAB.
A conditioning which can be condensed into an endless recitation of SNP bad…..SNP bad……SNP bad.
Listening to him it is like Life on Mars, back in the 1970’s. All about high taxes, Clause 4 hints and to hell wealth creation.
lol
Another wee cracker just crawling out of Brisbane
https://archive.today/Z9V0S
16 November 2014 Last updated at 09:39
TTIP: Cameron pledges support for EU-US trade deal
Trebles all round, the NHS is ferked.
As I already ‘commented’ on a previous story (pre-Referendum) – It has, indeed, been the policy of SLab to remove Trident from the Clyde. In fact, the Labour rulers in West Dunbartonshire moved Helensburgh and, therefore, HMNB Clyde to Argyll & Bute because they made West Dunbartonshire a Nuclear Free Zone. They also march in ‘CND/Trident Ploughshares’ rallies to close HMNB Clyde TOTALLY with the loss of ALL the jobs both inside and outside of the Faslane components and RNAD Coulport. With the possible (probable?) contract for ‘Type 26 Frigates’ being made with a French company, perhaps the UK Nuclear Deterrent could also be based in France seeing as how a new ‘Military Alliance’ appears to be imminent? http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/mod-considers-pulling-4bn-clyde-frigate-contract-1-3602708
What a shocker and I thought Murphy was their BEST LIAR.
Nicola set out her stall immediately after she was elected. A great deal of thought has gone in to developing her vision, which echoes what the vast majority of Scots want for their country. In doing so, Nicola has set a political trap for the Unionist parties, Labour in particular. They cannot not disagree with what she has proposed, as that is a vote loser for them. All they can do is to and try and hoodwink the voters with lies, just as Findlay did this morning.
The Scottish Labour Party policy predicament will not change unless they become an Independent Party, and even then it will take years for them to be forgiven for their antics with the Tories during the referendum campaign.
As Alex said at FMQ’s, the Tories have destroyed the Unionist opposition parties, who for their own political greed, rather than the best interests of the country, sided with them. Tick tock.
Labour also argued, on the run up to the referendum, about how could an independent Scotland want to get rid of nuclear weapons yet be a member of NATO.
Don’t let the electorate forget where and wht they stand for..
Scottish Labour Branch cannt ever move on without that quick, furtive glance over their shoulder for agreement by the “BIG PARTY” at Westminster.
They know it. We know it. That fact has to be hammered home constantly.
@ Ron Burgundy says:
16 November, 2014 at 11:24 am
What a Muppet. Findlay crossed my path in a previous life and I can say unequivocally, that he is as thick as a brick
Would that be the “brick” Labour candidate interviewed by the Sun?
Calm yourselves folks…calm.
Findlay, McTernan, Murphy…in fact all SLab mouthpieces are merely trying out a long established re-hashing technique.
For them it’s the most suitable way of making ‘new’ policies without deviating too far from their now established (right-wing of all shades) unionist dogma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut-up_technique
Who should I vote for? 🙂
I’ve just received a ballot email from the Labour Party!
Feck nose why, as i’m now a SNP member, and wasn’t a member of the Labour Party before that!
They tell one lie in public and then another lie in public.
I can’t wait for Murphy to speak on this issue. I recall during the referendum he hummed and havered, and was not comfortable on the subject.
Trident should be a plank of the general election manifesto for the SNP. I believe the people of Scotland will make Labour walk that plank to oblivion.
That picture of Murphy holding the model of a weapon of mass destruction designed to kill millions AND he is SMILING!!!
What happened to this party. The leading candidate for Labour in Scotland is a Tory Hawk and an American puppet like his hero Blair.
That photograph sent a shiver down my spine. That type of smile should be when handing over a cheque to a foodbank (not that we should have any) / opening a new school or University.
The world has gone mad. A warmonger to lead the labour party in Scotland 🙁
Nothing on Sunday Politics about Findlay’s new vision. All we got this morning from BBC Scotland was potential splits within the SNP.
They came up with the possibility of three splits in the next six months.
1/ The 86,000 membership will be split on policies.
2/ The Westminster SNP MPs will be split on who will be the main man in London.
3/ That there will be a split in the Scottish electorate between the 45% Yes voters and the 55% NO voters.
This is BBC Scotland out with it’s big wooden spoon again, trying to create divisions within the SNP, with one aim, to get Scottish Labour MPs re-elected to Westminster.
Thanks Rev.Stu for publishing that picture of Murphy holding Trident model.
That says it all about the right wing war criminal.
Trident will remain. Members of the BAP, (around 1000 top dogs in the UK) decide policy and labour Party hierarchy are well placed in the organisation. I’ve updated the information. Just what can be done to neuter this lot is a puzzle.
Responding to a growing anxiety in Washington about the increasing opposition in Britain to nuclear weapons, especially the stationing of cruise missiles in Europe, President Reagan in 1983 making numerous references to “shared values” called for “successor generations” on both sides of the Atlantic to “work together in the future on defence and security matters”. “A special concern,” he said, “will be the successor generations, as these younger people are the ones who will have to work together in the future on defence and security issues.” A new, preferably young elite – journalists, academics, economists, “civil society” and liberal community leaders of one sort or another – would offset the growing “anti-Americanism”.
The British American Project, BAP is unashamedly a vehicle for American foreign policy, recruiting Britons of liberal or left-of-centre inclinations and political talent and connections when they are young, indoctrinating them with propaganda about the virtues of American capitalism and America’s role in the world, and then watching them approvingly as they steer British politics in an ever more pro-Washington direction. The project’s greatest success has been New Labour.
http://caltonjock.com/2014/11/13/852/
‘Calm yourselves folks…calm’
Are you for real. Because they have always pissed on us, it’s okay.
Even if Scotland stays with the UK (for the time being), Trident could still be removed form Faslane without the loss of hundreds of jobs.
They could convert Faslane into a surface fleet base. That would also be in line with SNP policy.
It would also shut the likes of Jackie Baillie up.
BtP
Does anyone know what would be the situation with TTIP if it is first accepted by the UK government (with the SG being vocally against) and then Scotland votes for Independence. Surely existing “agreements” would have to be renegotiated, and in this case could we tell the Yankie companies that want to steal from our NHS to GTF?
The Scottish labour party telling lies ??? Who’d have thought it ??
Shock horror !!!
Tony Little
Long time no see.
We declare (SNP) their opposition and also declare that they will not accept any TTIP deal siigned. Following independence these illegal contracts will annulled?
My jaw is still hurting from when it hit the floor. “tell a big enough lie enough times….”
SLab know they are finished in Scotland and in true desperation are shouting out SNP’s most popular policies, in individual efforts to retain their place on the WM gravy train. Expect to see many more conflicting statements in the coming months, as they all just make it up as they go along. Jim Murphy can spout all he likes about having more power for labour in Scotland, but it just ain’t gona happen, but he’ll hope to return to WM & all the personal rewards waiting in the trough.
Why would Marr, from his London studio, know whether there was a ” Scottish labour ” position on this or not ?
The ” Branch office ” quip wouldn’t have registered down there.
Read it and weep. This is what the people of Scotland are up against. In England the right wing control the BBC. In Scotland the Labour party control it. See my earlier posts. Scotland needs control of the media to be transferred to the care of the Scottish parliament.
http://caltonjock.com/2014/11/16/the-british-american-project-bap-the-bbc-and-new-trust-chairman-rona-fairhead/
http://caltonjock.com/2014/11/15/bbc-trust-chairman-scandal-money-laundering-hsbc-1-9bn-fine-deferred-prosecution-agreement-what-next/
Nicola is playing a blinder and she has the Tories AND Labour on the run. Her announcement of terms is precisely why Labour are quacking on about the removal of Trident “already being” one of their core proposals.
Truly, these are momentous days. And they thought we would retreat under a bush and die quietly …
Juteman, maybe you’re one of the alleged 13,000 and you didn’t even know it.
In all likelihood, Marr did not challenge him simply because he did not know.
That is not surprising.
It may not have occurred to Marr that he was being told lies by a politician.
We, however , are used to it.
Valerie, do you think Findlay is in for the high jump.
Future Daily Record headlines:
“Ex Labour MSP Neil Findlay says…” Ha Ha Ha, Oh how we laughed.
Neil, I hope you still remember how to build a brick wall, coz I would say that you are finished as an MSP if Murphy and McTernan have anything to do with it.
Scottish Labour, they still think we believe in Santa Claus.
Scottish Labour branch office candidate says Scrap Trident;
British Labour says Don’t Scrap Trident.
Owen Jones says – Great stuff Findlay.
McTernan says – Findlay you’re irrelevant.
Hey, guys. Save yourselves the bother. Just Scrap Labour.
Boris, that link makes for very interesting reading.
It deserves greater exposure.
I knew about Naughtie and Robertson and their links across the pond.
For those who wish for some lighter sarcastic satire
http://tinyurl.com/mlybgjx
SNP have played a blinder on this one. They know that dumping Trident is a popular policy in Scotland but that the Labour leadership are against it. Miliband won’t be drawn on a potential coalition but will be sweating over this.
Obama will have been told and will not be happy but on the other hand he stood against us in the referendum campaign when he had a chance not to meddle in our affairs.
I sent Mr Findlay an email this morning to clarify what he said below is his response ” It long standing Scottish Labour policy not to support trident. As a CND member I had always been opposed to trident and have said so publicly in numerous occasions.
The Uk party had a different view and of course defence is reserved.
This morning I was giving my personal opinion that I am opposed to nuclear weapons – I hope that you also support my position.
Best wishes
Sent from my iPhone”
so just shows Scottish Labour can want all it wants but the decision lies with London
There was no two second sound delay on the BBC Andrew Marr show between him and the Interview with Neil Findlay in the Glasgow studio this morning.
Is that two second delay reserved for SNP interviews only.
Maybe the British Labour Party should call in the Chartered Institute of Accountants?
I mean, who else would you call to sort out a technical dispute between your “Accounting Units”?
Brilliant Rev.
If SNP DO hold the balance of power after the GE, how will the “little Englanders” react. Us sweaty socks running the country 🙂 Watch the UKIP start when they finally realise that Labour in Scotland are dead.
Someone once told me politics was boring.How wrong they were. Anyway just a wee point i thought reading through the article.
Labour may get the pensioners vote but struggle with every other age group. So our task is to get the pensioners on side.
Local council election in Midlothian East soon . I will get the oldies ( i’m hardly a spring chicken myself) up to date and my son will ferry them up and down to the poll booths. Council elections usually have poor turnouts so this could be a wee change from normal.
Labour seat up for grabs. SNP look very strong on the ground though. I’ll keep you informed. 🙂
@ Macnakamura “It may not have occurred to Marr that he was being told lies by a politician. ”
You must be joking !
imo the bbc and broadcasters in general have a specific duty to widely correct misinformation asap, to maintain journalistic integrity.
to stop statements such as the one made, becoming accepted as being true by the populous.
as it adds another misconception that later has to be corrected, which is extremely difficult to do once the misconception has taken root and/or become embedded in peoples minds.
As is my democratic right, I’ve written to my MP for clarification of both his and Scottish Labour’s policy on the replacement of Trident.
I’ll let you know how that pans out.
The swivel eyed mess that is Scottish labour is something to see. How it actually changed into this rolling cluster fuck of a party, will be the subject of books, blogs and documentaries for years to come.
It took what? 7 years for these cartoonishly inept fools to fart out what little dignity they had, and changed into frothing mouthed imbeciles. This cannot be explained by simple hatred of the SNP. They’ve dined out on anti-tory sentiment for 50 years and they’ve never been this deranged. It can’t simply be about their sense of entitlement to a Scottish vote.
They have no sense of what they’re supposed to be about. They work to a script that they seem unable to deviate from, no matter how events overtake it. They have no ability to communicate, despite being in an area of public life were coherent and consistent communication is key to success. They are openly dishonest were honesty is seen as being necessary for continued electoral success. Their media relations are frankly a joke – but not a very funny one. They are given a pass on all this by the MSM, and rather than take the time to fix things, it just encourages them to explore new opportunities for stupidity.
I’ve used many descriptions of them in the past. Peter Principle. Dilbert principle. Negative selection. Mushroom syndrome. But after all this and giving it much thought, I have come to the conclusion that Scottish labour are just shit on the heel of Scotland’s shoe.
Time to scrape them off, open the windows and get the smell of stupidity out of the room.
Labour politician quite demonstrably lies to public on broadcast soapbox. Interviewer simply refuses to challenge said howler.
Different day, same old, same old and we’re supposed to believe this guy has left leaning cred?
Nnnnnaawww, ah don’t think so.
If you cant beat them
Pretend to copy them
The Telegraph is showing a Yougov poll that puts Labour in a majority of seats in May 2015 (majority of 40). I couldn’t find any details of when this was taken or what the sample was. That would be good news for TTIP I suppose, but if Labour did badly in Scotland and was elected purely on English votes, then stuff the Smith commission doing anything. Not that we ever hoped. But it would mean the SNP and Scotland being ignored by the government and the SNP would be in a position of impotent power in Scotland as in the UK once the Red Tories start implementing the austerity cuts. Some bold moves would be needed by Yessers and independenistas at that stage.
Looks like big business doesn’t want Devo-Max either. In my weekly trawl around the internet news sites, I found this article (among others) which shows the MSM are still at it and the unions are joining in:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11229972/Businesses-and-trade-unions-unite-to-oppose-corporation-tax-devolution.html
O/.T But similar.
Just heard the programme coming up on BBC radio 4 – yeah I know hubby cant be convinced to stop license feebut I did convince him to vote Yes, so one step at a time – whereby they have a No voter’s view on the SNP conference.
Caught him saying, new terminology like ‘civic nationalism’ before switching over to music.
These branch manager interviews are hell,eh? Don’t get drawn into this Labour effort at trying to get the focus of everything onto Labour again through the kid-on branch manager campaign,it won’t work,we don’t care about the Neo Labour party anymore.
Scotland will ALWAYS be way down their list of priorities,they seem to be unable to break their one track soviet/North Korean style mindsets. Dear leaders seem to be selected rather than elected these days.
Vote Brick.
Are they still against the council tax freeze or do they have to wait till #McTernansays tells them what the policy is
Hard to tell if he said oppose or impose actually, but I’m leaning towards oppose.
@Juteman
Vote for the Brick! It at least is fit for purpose. 😀
BtP
Hi, been busy. Read most articles most days, but have a lot on my plate at the moment, so commenting is limited 🙂
I see you point, but not sure how that stacked up in international law/ treaties etc.
Interesting times, and I sense a far more proactive and assertive approach from a Nicola-led SNP/SG than from Alex. (This is NOT a criticism of his leadership, simply an observation).
Interesting times indeed!
Meanwhile, back in the real world….
Today’s Observer : a “landmark study” shows there has been “a siginificant shift in income from the least well-off off half of the population to the more affluent” since 2010.
We are, truly, better together.
Tony Little, BtP,
I think that if a clear statement that an Ind.SG would not be bound by a treaty or contract prior to it being signed, it would have to be upheld in International law.
The contract or treaty could then be cancelled with no financial compensation from the SG as that ‘risk’ could be reasonably assumed to have been factored in.
its true that you can judge a book by its cover, this poverty ridden excuse for a politician looks like a liar.
Well done to Terry for getting Findlay on record as it b e ing his PERSONAL view. So how come he said it’s SLab branch policy? Hope he can talk the rest of the toolbox round then!
Do you think he’ll come out and say he voted yes in the referendum, ebc will still not question that if he did.
there are lies damn lies and what the labour politicians say.
It is because so many women in our movement have demanded change that the country has sat up and taken notice”
Jim Murphy
Scottish Labour leadership candidate
Make up your own gags for that one
‘RMAC says:
Mc Ternan has just clarified on twitter that “unless Neil Findlay is running for leader of the labour party his views on Trident are irrelevant”.
There is a lesson here which we should all take to heart. The statement affirms that Labour Party policy on Trident is NOT controlled by the Labour Party in Scotland. It is strictly a matter for the Party’s UK leader.
Something we all knew already, but it is good to have it confirmed from such an authoritative source.
On this particular occasion, Mr. McTernan is simply telling the truth. WHOEVER WINS THE SCOTTISH LABOUR LEADERSHIP CONTEST WILL HAVE NOTHING WHATEVER TO SAY ABOUT TRIDENT.
This will be as true for Jim Murphy, Mr. McTernan’s own preferred candidate, as it is for Neil Findlay. Like Neil, Jim had better just mind his own business.
For the Labour Party, Trident is not a Scottish issue, but – let’s be clear about it – a RESERVED MATTER. Reserved, that is, to Labour’s Leader in WESTMINSTER, who alone will determine party policy regarding it.
So Scots of all stripes, esepcially Labour supporters, had better just shut up about it.
I think readers of this website, and everyone else concerned about dismantling Britain’s nuclear arsenal, should be grateful to Mr. McTernan for an honest comment that genuinely clarifies the matter.
He has reminded us all not to believe a word any Labour politician in Scotland or elsewhere says about Trident, unless it parrots the Party’s Westminster Leader on the subject. And the parotting has to be speech perfect.
Rest assured: LABOUR wants to KEEP and RENEW TRIDENT. Despite Britain’s near-bankruptcy, it is quite content to waste billions on an immoral, unusable and unjustifiable weapon of mass destruction.
Thank you, Mr. McTernan, for reminding us … We will bear this in mind at the General Election.
‘Now, Jim, repeat after me …’
Classic condescension Torygraph/Cockers lick spittle style mess of a boost from tory boy to red tory end of Labour in Scotland era or in précis, we won, red tory and blue tory together, so just tell the jocks anything they want to hear, we don’t care, teamGB doesn’t care, just get them voting Labour and kill this thing for another 40 years…
“They put aside their partisan differences for the duration of that battle but, sadly, have now retreated to their respective laagers, too embarrassed even to be seen in each other’s company.
By way of contrast, Mr Salmond said his supporters would “not disappear back into the political shadows” and that the referendum showed that Scotland had changed utterly – leading to ultimate independence.
They may be in a bad way at present but the Unionist parties at least have six months before the general election to individually, if no longer collectively, ensure that their supporters don’t disappear, either, and that the separatist nightmare can always be defeated.
It shouldn’t be that hard. After all, let no one forget: We won. That must count for something.”
6 months to save the blue and red tory boys in Scotland! All hands on deck at Pacific Quay.
Comical Cockers is still fun to watch in action. BUt for bare faced fraud I quite miss Libby Carrell of rancid hypocrite Graun these days, stuff like UK offshore oil good, Scots oil bad, free tuition evil, fees good etc Goods times Severin.
The Scottish labour party telling lies ??
Shock horror scandal probe….
@David Agnew
Absolutely brilliant comment.
Does anyone else think this is a way out for them in the race to be top second class member in Scotland
@Desimond
Cheerios Jim. You’re a cereal con man. A complete flake. Thick as porridge. And a sugar puff and wind politician.
This is how it will be until May, we all know that. Labour politicians will openly lie without any challenge from friendly interviewers. Compare this to how the media tag the SNP as hypocrites for wanting to remove Trident but join NATO.
We need to get a pro-independence national daily newspaper and some sort of TV channel even if it’s broadcast on the internet. Otherwise the propaganda machine that won the referendum will turn around Labour’s fortunes and there will be no SNP majority in votes or seats at the WM elections.
In years to come this Decade will be known as the Scottish political engagement not unlike the Scottish Enlightenment. What a time to be around especially to see all the nonentities who will be resigned to nowhere in history.
Im sorry but how can “one nation” labour have two completely opposed policies on either side of the border?
Duncan hothersall and the like are saying it doesn’t matter what Neil Findlay thinks because defence is a reserved issue, but isn’t the “Scottish Labour” leader supposed to have control over all aspects of the party in Scotland including the MPs? What happens when the Scottish leader asks Scottish labour MPs to vote against renewal in the House of commons, will the UK party overrule the branch office.
I saw the Marr interview. I was astonished, really, I was. The fact that he, Findlay, didn’t even blush when he told the lie, astonished me.
The fact that Marr let him off with it just underlines the total bias of BBC coverage of all things Labour.
The North British Branch Office of Labour are like a team playing ‘catch up’. Well behind on points and fouling like hell to get back on terms. They’ve also ‘bought’ the Ref.
How can “one nation” labour have two completely opposed policies on either side of the border?
Politically bipolar?
Tell the people of Scotland Labour is the natural party of Scotland while selling them policies designed for England.
I can believe that this is Neil’s position but I can also believe Murphy’s jaw hit the floor when he heard it.
Jim is rather fond of military power. The way aircraft carriers make him misty eyed is more than a little disturbing.
Sadly this is small fry compared with what’s to come. Never underestimate the Labour lie machine.
Hi Devorgilla.
The latest YouGov results are at the link below.
Uk-wide, the figures are:-
Con – 31%
Lab – 33%
L-Dem – 7%
UKIP – 18%
Green – 5%
SNP/PC – 5%
The Scottish sub-sample shows,
SNP – 46%
Lab – 25%
Con – 17%
L-Dem – 5%
Green – 5%
When these Scottish figures are entered into the electoralcalculus web site, you get this predicted share of Scottish seats:-
SNP – 47
Lab – 10
Con – 1
L-Dem – 1
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/6pqhue0bmr/YG-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-141114.pdf
There is a named list of the councillors and members of CLP who have nominated their choice for “Scottish” Labour leader at labourlist.org.
Murphy got most nominations from CLP and councillors.
Findlay got most nominations from the unions.
Well I’m astonished. Labour party right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. Who Knew, and then have to wait for that worm McTernan to wriggle along and spout more shite about it. Dearie me.
@yesguy 12.38 Let me assure you that they’re no getting this pensioners vote nor the hubbys vote either. Who in their right mind would vote for that useless shower.
A 4% swing and the Tories could become the second largest party in Scotland, WTF!!
Scottish labour –
like a ship without a rudder
on a wild and stormy sea.
Scottish labour –
like a ship without a rudder
on a wild and stormy sea.
It seems that liebore have been up to their old tricks again with allegations of corruption in East Kilbride involving mp Michael McCann and a property developer(as reported in the Sunday Herald).
For everyone’s sake let’s get rid of all the Labour shysters at the next election.
We deserve more than this.
“perhaps someone at Labour Party headquarters in London should have a quiet word with Neil Findlay before he accidentally tells the people of Scotland any more untruths.”
I don’t see a problem here: surely lying to the public is the main element in the job spec for a Labour (or Tory or LibDem) MP?
Fellow Wingers,
What we are witnessing now is the beginning of what we knew would be coming. The British media have awoken to the threat of a resurgent S.N.P. From this day on we can expect attack after attack aimed at promoting AND protecting the established old order. They are in the mire. We must prepare ourselves to counterattack this by all and any means open to us. You may think what you have heard this morning is so ridiculous that no thinking person could possible believe it. Wrong you are. This will be pushed by the media as a rebirth of Traditional values and empowerment of the people of Scotland, though we on the side of right know it is a con trick. Findlay is an arse and has no chance of leadership. Should all of this rubbish have any semblance of truth, then the Labour M.P.S who get to Westminster would be answerable to the Labour leader at Holyrood and not the Imbecile currently at Westminster. This is not going to happen !!! I wish to God I had access to a large media outlet to highlight these points, but I only have this damn computer. How frustrating, but I relish the fight
If any working class family should have any concerns for their future reliance upon the services of the (Scottish) health service, and being able to have confidence in it’s ability to deliver services, in the future, free at the point of need. Then have no doubt. Short of Scotland being an independent Nation, the only hope to prevent a privatisation assault upon it by TTIP, (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership) is to vote in full strength for the SNP and independence partners at the 2015th GE.
Don’t take my word for it. Seek out and consult the evidence of Dr Philipa Whitford Cancer Specialist.
Expect the same strategy from Repoting North Britain and “Scottish
Newspapers” as per the referendum .After all it was a winning formula.
Ie. the “Scottish media” will portray Slab under its new leadership as
“Returning to its socialist roots” and the new leader will be a champion
Of the poor. Meanwhile London Labour will carry on as before with its
Tory copycat policy of welfare cuts and austerity. The London media
Will portray this Ina manner to Entice southern middle class voters
To make Milliband look good as a possible alternative to Cameron/Farage.
Meanwhile the thinking would be that the majority of Labour
Voters in Scotland just won’t notice this, and they may well be correct
On this assumption?
Bob Mack
have faith in the people of scotland.
the snp et al will be are, all over this and are well ready for what is to come.
Ma day started aff no to bad Neil Findley/Slab opposed to to Trident,it then went downhill from there.
G.H.Graham. Theres nae fairies in the fairy pool on Skye.
Caz_M. Theres nae Santa Claus.
Canny beleive anybody these days> except fellow Wingers.
On the subject of Press and the media, just come back from the first shift in the Branch meeting in Dunfermline which has grown by 1,000, to see what the newcomers and some of the old comers can bring to the SNP. Very impressed with the people at our table discussing how to tackle the press and media, should make for interesting discussions in how we deal with lying toads like Findlay and the biased Labour oriented press.
BBC Scotland seems to go into shut down mode over the weekend but tomorrow morning this should be a major story. The SNP have already released a statement highlighting the hypocrisy of Findlay saying one thing and doing the exact opposite.
The BBC and the rest of the media should be asking SLAB to provide the official document that shows that they are against renewing Trident as Findlay claims.
I won’t hold my breath.
“One aim of the negotiations is to reduce the costs to business of complying with regulations. ”
If the above ends up like ITAR, then we’re snookered.
Starts off looking like there will be no problems, but over time it then grows arms and legs and intertwines and puts blockers in with every thing it touches and things start grinding to a halt until “regulations” are “complied” with.
Sorry, My post was in reference to to TTIP.
Laff or weep? Not sure.
ann
i thought that is what you meant.
if labour are prepared to repeal, if they get to power in the 2015ge, the 2012 health and social care act, imo it is because TTIP supersedes it.
see work of prof allyson pollock, dr philipa whitford, and in particular dr lucy reynolds.
What chance is there of Murphy being interviewed live by BBC Scotland and asked for a direct YES/NO answer as to whether or not he agrees with Findlay’s statement as to Scottish Labour’s policy on Trident?
In the unlikely event of such an interview he should not be allowed to wriggle free with Labour’s usual response of saying that they do not believe in unilateral nuclear disarmament but believe in Multilateral disarmament.
It will be interesting to see how tomorrow’s blats treat Findlay’s statement.and any response from either National or Branch Office.
Mgt Curren is already at it. She’s attending a meeting in Glasgow today and on her agenda is, accusing the SNP of ”taking the voters for granted”.
What she is doing of course is transferring Lab policy onto SNP.
They are totally delusional, you wonder what happens when they enter WM, do they all get brainwashed?
liz
yes exactly, they are trying to put the yes alliances clothes on.
Standard tried and proven technique. They pretend there is such an entity as the Scottish Labour Party and they promote this make believe organisation as having views and policies which appeal to Scots. Come election time, the imaginary party can’t be found however, rather cleverly another London Labour party has slipped onto the ballot paper. This real entity has real policies tuned to SE England voters.
Now, here’s the really clever bit of the plan – they get Scots to vote for London Labour believing they are actually voting for the non existent organisation.
Sounds too ridiculous to be true? It has worked before and they hope it will work again!
Helena,
Not long back from that wee get together.
Quite impressed by some of the ideas and comments from around the tables.
A few with fire in their bellies and raring to go.
“All in all, he’s just a..nother brick in the wall” 🙂
Are we far enough in for an off-topic story?
Some time ago I mentioned Joan, an elderly lady who lives near me and whom I usually see at church. About the time of the second Yes newspaper she thanked me profusely for putting it through her door and said it was giving her some ammunition to work on her very hostile No voter husdand. Jack’s hostility to Yes and the SNP became legendary in the village, with campaigners warned not to raise the subject with him.
Joan was working on him, but parallel with that she declared to me on one occasion that she’d have preferred devo-max to full independence. I pointed out that there was no way WM would ever give us independence no matter what they promised, and she reluctantly agreed. In the light of that remark, I was seriously worried that she might in the end have voted No on the back of the Vow, and I hadn’t spoken to her about it since the referendum.
Well.
This morning I’d hardly taken my seat before she said, can I ask you a favour. To cut a long story short, the Wee Blue Book (actually delivered in her street by a couple of my Plaid Cymru guests about 10 days before the vote) had worked the miracle. She’d managed to get Jack to talk about it and read it, and he was persuaded! He continued to insist that he couldn’t stand Salmond (or Sturgeon it appears, he reads the Mail and the Express, say no more), but he came round to independence!
The favour turned out to be, did I still have any Wee Blue Books left, because she wants one for her younger son who is coming to stay with her over Christmas. She’s sure that it’s just the thing to get through to him and his wife. (Now isn’t that lucky, when I got back to work after the referendum I found a stray Wee Blue Book lying in my office, that I’d overlooked. So, sorted.)
So, the power of the Wee Blue Book is manifest again. If we’d had a couple of million of them, if Yes Scotland had put out literature as effective as that – who knows.
But it also shows that Yes supporters are still quietly working away on their own friends and family. Everybody is gearing up for next time, it seems.
Saw a good put-down to’vote Labour to keep the Tories out’
They had the chance to wake up on the morning of the 19th September with Scotland Tory free-and didn’t take it!
What we are seeing is the start of ‘The Empire’striking back’,there will be lots more as this is just the beginning of the next media campaign to destroy the SNP.
They know they are in deep doodoo and they’ll say and do anything it takes with MSM rubberstamping the lies.
Gloves off!
I have just had a look at STV News Site and BBC News Site both National and Scotland and surprise surprise not a word on Findlay’s statement re Trident on The Marr Show.
slightly O/T
if you would like to compare 2010 GE manifestos with what actually happened, here’s a link to ALL the 2010GE participant’s manifestos. Some are quite entertaining 😉
http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ge10/man10.htm
Nicola seems to be playing the reactionary rainbow Tories in the same vein as her mentor. Excellent ! (said in the manner of Monty Burns)
The US couldn’t give a monkeys if we keep/replace Trident or not, bar the business lost to the military industrial goons. It’s our elites who need it, to cling on to the permanent seat.
What the yanks really care about though, is our influence on EU policy. My inner mystic meg sees another big establishment effort to gain a referendum No in 2017.
“Ed [Miliband] and I have spoken about this quite a bit and we’re in the same place, which is that we’re not a unilateralist party and we’re not about to become a unilateralist party.” Jim Murphy, News Statesman, 2013
@Morag:
Nice story.
Never lose faith.
Well JaBa certainly won’t be voting for Findlay – she actively campaigned for Trident on the run up to the Referendum, it was going to save about 600 jobs in her constituency (or 1300, 3500, 6000+, or any number she felt would get people worried).
During the campaign I researched Labour Party manifestos and conference proceedings over the last 15 or so years for any mention of nuclear weapons and drew a complete blank except for fringe meetings attended by a maximum of 30 people. So nuclear weapons, not just specifically Trident, is not a subject the Labs get excited about.
I see the BBC do have an article on the leadership contest and mention Findlay’s position. I see they also say Boyack is also standing…they have a picture where they reiterate that she is also standing. I take it that Boyack is playing the waiting game here?
I’d be interested to know that if Jimbo ever becomes FM, will he rename the Scottish parliament back to Scottish Executive.
We all need to know.
@HandandShrimp
She is doing her best but if Boothman says No … what can a girl do?
Just to interject a thought for a moment. Do you think like me that a lot of politicians suffer from a mental condition. If you look at the I.C.D.10,( international classification of diseases vol 10) which gives symptoms for various conditions, then politicians actually match those for Personality Disorders. They lack guilt for their own actions, they blame others for what they do and exonerate themselves by any means possible .They have no regard whatsoever for the outcomes of their actions. It would seem quite spooky how they have obtained their positions in life,, but then again personality disordered people can be great manipulators. Makes you think. I myself believe some of them are certifiable. I.e. Findlay ,,Murphy and many MANY more.
‘Alex Salmond – an appreciation’: grousebeater.wordpress
Labour just can’t tell the truth, no matter who may be in charge, or tipped to be in charge.
The Scottish branch of Labour, are not worthy.
@Grizzle McPuss,
Enjoyed that 😀
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut-up_technique
@Jim Thomson,
Currently enjoying your very useful link 😀
http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ge10/man10.htm
Much obliged folks.
@Morag,
Had a similar experience with my mum, one smart cookie and not easily conned.
Gave her a WBB two weeks b4 the ref and she said after reading of an evening, “whoever wrote that certainly knows and cares a lot about his country”.
Aye, it was a wee wedge with big clout and still is.
The fact she’s placed it in her bookcase makes me smile 🙂
Any bets on whether the EBC will drag out footage of the Eggman at the Clutha Bar tragedy in the next week or so?
O/T
That electionforecast the Rev had on his twitter feed is seriously weird. It has The SNP 42% likely to win Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath and its best guess at the result is Labour 40% SNP 38%, just 2 points in it!
How they come up with that, I’d love to know so I could tell the local SNP what they need to do to get that extra 2%. Brown out, defeated on his home ground even; life doesn’t come sweeter. [*turning cartwheels* 😀 ]
@Giving Goose,
Chortle 😛
http://tinyurl.com/mlybgjx
Bob Mack
they lack natural empathy, compassion, and love, they seem to be totally unaware of this, and may actually believe that they are doing whatever they do for our own good.
but as you are aware, scotland has been awakened over the last 2yrs @ least, and is now politically awake, we now know that we are the change not them.
they are way behind the curve atm.
they’ll perhaps catch up with this change, eventually.
The media propaganda and bias that we experience in Scotland is sickening. The establishment feeds the masses with the narrative that suits their objectives.
The thing is, it has sneaked up on people via TV. It wasn’t that long ago that TV became available to the masses. Programming (pardon the pun) became more sophisticated over the past fifty years,
The thing is, we PAY to be brainwashed. We actually fund the organisation that works on behalf of the establishment to keep us in check.
Is there any other country in the world who pay a fee to be anaesthetised into apathy and acquiescence?
I have decided I don’t want my young family to be subject to the UK Brainwashing Broadcasting Corporation.
Even if it costs a few extra quid to find decent educational and documentary DVDs and movies… I’d rather do that than allow UK plc to tell my teenagers what to think and feel. Kids are not easily able to discriminate fact from propaganda. As far as they are concerned, like print, TV is fact.
My background is psychology, but it has taken the referendum for me to really pay heed to our corrupt media. ‘The poor had no lawyers’? I think it’s time for a book, ‘The poor have no broadcasting organisation.’
Incidentally, I posted a few days ago that I was blocked from the Herald for criticising journalism generally…. As of today, I can add the Guardian. (It takes a lot to get into pre moderation there) after my scathing attacks on Westminster, UK Media and the Labour Party. (Stu, please don’t moderate me here… or I have no where to go. LOL )
Thank goodness for Wings and the strength of Stu and all the BTL Wingers. (No, not Bacon Tomato and Lettuce, Paula Rose)
Labour are in disarray. Make no mistake that there are discussions behind numerous closed doors in Westminster regarding the uppity Scots and the SNP. It’s obvious from the increasingly bitter rhetoric that many BritNats didn’t like the outcome of the referendum.
They honestly thought that they could kick the independence Cat into a corner where it would go to sleep again for 20 years. They are desperate to maintain the status quo and return to the controlling and certainty of the old FPTP two party system.
Again, I say that McTernan et al are desperately trying to figure out what might work. They believe Scotland belongs to them. Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to have their own political party that looks after Scotland.
We need to give Miliband, McTernan, Murphy and Labour a bloody nose in May. Let them feel the pain that we felt because of their heinous propaganda.
In the meantime, independence is in many ways a frame of mind. We should act as if we are. Pursue our own broadcasting, media, and political & economic imperatives where we can. Defy and ignore Westminster pressure or culture. They cannot cage an idea whose time has come.
I floated the idea months ago. Why not a Scotland Trust run by people chosen by the people… We fund the trust with TV licence fees. Someone like the Rev for Chairman.
Imagine 200k or 300k people x £145 per annum … up to £43.5 million per annum? Surely that could be used to powerful effect in pursuit of a better Scotland?
They want us to lie down and sleep for another generation. We cannot afford to sleep for a minute, while the UK establishment continues to pollute our minds, children and our country with neoliberal politics and the effects of the Thatcher/Blair era.
As someone said recently. We are the change.
He said they oppose the renewal of Trident, sounds like they just want to keep the old ones!
@Jim Thomson
I’d be interested to know that if Jimbo ever becomes FM, will he rename the Scottish parliament back to Scottish Executive.
We all need to know.
I know there would be riots and protests.
I’d have more respect for red Tory war mongerers like him if he’d just get out and sell Trident WMD’s to us instead of this endless fraud Laboor in Scotland try to get away with. It all made poor old Lamont look ridiculous so for starters, TeamGB needs a hundred billion quid under water nuke strike weapon because…. TeamGB needs to be up there with the other super papers because.. TeamGB is much safer via a hundred billon quid weapon because…
Norway has a an incredible defence force and no nukes, so if teamGB/England wants them, let them pay for them and store them on the Thames.
Ed Milibland is a turd and as we all know that it does not matter how much you polish
Shit… a turd is still a turd.Courtesy of Alan Ferrier over on WoS twitter.
Meant:
Link courtesy of Alan Ferrier over on WoS twitter.
So Findlay tells a massive porky and the headline on BBC Scotland is “Labour leader candidates make cases”.
Remember when Alex Salmond made an innocuous comment about Putin, here’s the headlines over 2 days of coverage:
Salmond criticised over Putin comments
Alex Salmond says Putin pride remark was not ill-judged
No Alex Salmond apology over Vladimir Putin comments row
Spot the difference?
Hey Wingman ,
do yourself a favour and invest in NETFLIX!
5.99 or 6.99 a month and you get the first month on a free trial!
If you don’t like what you get then cancel after the first month.Simples
A lie can run around the world before the truth has got its shoes on.
So the BIG strategy of Labour (Scotland) is to just lie about their true policies because nobody will check. No newspaper will contradict anything they say or make a point of revealing their true policies when any Labour MP MSP etc makes a false statement. Most of the population is too dim, lazy, busy or just close minded to go further than what floats out of the speaker into their sweaty lugs.
All in all a pretty good strategy.
Every journalist worth his salt who gets to interview Boyack and Murphy from now on should say “Neil Findlay says it is already Labour policy in Scotland not to replace Trident. Is that the current position? Would you support such a policy? And if so, do you have Scotland-only whips in place at Westminster to ensure Scottish policy is upheld?”
@ Wingman 2020
Could not agree more. It is bad enough when a Government takes over the media by force to manipulate a population, but when the media in a supposedly democratic country volunteers itself for that role then something is seriously wrong.
Curiously Neil Findlay is an anagram of “Fly in an’ lied”.
Slily me, even better:
“Fly in and lie”
I can not stand one single lying Wesley sickening Labour Party mp, msp. I always gave labour a chance to step up and start doing what’s right for our nation (scotland, not the UK) the sooner there voted out the better.
As Nicola said last night in her speech “don’t believe the lie that voting labour in scotland keeps out the Tories” it’s one of the biggest lies we’ve been told including Margo’s statement “we’re too small, too stupid” we’re not. Never forget that
Morag at 5.30
In our new “Foward” shop in Dunoon the biggest demand we have is for copies of the Wee Blue Book.
Libby Carrell of rancid old Guardian bites back the noo! The real headline is Graun hypocrites didnt use Scottish Nationalist party or sepratists this weekend but
“The trouble is, there are plenty of Scots who voted no to independence and consider themselves to be on an entirely different mountain. If Sturgeon can, by an immediately, actively progressive programme for government, convince them to support her party next May, current polling suggests the SNP could blow Westminster politics wide open. But this doesn’t factor in a reinvigorated Scottish Labour party under a new leader who wants his territory back.”
Pretty miserably nasty review of an extraordinary week in teamGB north region politics but like Libby Carrell says a new improved Labour ruler of their Scotland region is on his way to take back wahts rightly his but future lord Murphy does need to start flogging teamGB nuke weapons in Scotland because their giant THE VOW fraud is still out there.
And it’s started on the doorsteps. A FB page has a member reporting a Labour canvassed on his step today in Fife, telling him that the SNP are closing the local hospital !
Wingman,
NETFLIX is great been watching ‘House of cards’ highly recommended.
Morag,
I still have a copy of the ‘wee blue book’ it has pride of place in my bookcase i try and get anyone who comes to my house to read it.
@Dave McEwan Hill – loving your shop name!! Hope you get lots of folk in.
@ Bob Mack 6.40pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dW-kXX0HDQ
>:(
Neil Findlay is an SLab politician, it’s his job to lie to the Scottish people. That is their role within the system.
But, what’s Andrew Marr’s excuse for letting him away with it? If someone from the SNP had been on and said they were For Trident, would he just let the comment go? Like Hell! He’d latch onto it like a limpit!
Andrew Marr is a disgrace to his profession and nationality.
As an SNP supporter and a supporter of independence i am worried by what Nicola and a lot on here say with regards joining forses with labour to get rid of trident etc
Although on the outside this seems like a great idea look what happened to the lib-dems once they joined forces with another party they are all but wiped out.
And if labour are going to continue with austerity we might become the same
@caledonia
the context of Nicola’s comments was that any cooperation would be on a subject by subject basis. Not a wholesale coalition.
@wingman 2020 (7.22) –
Hear hear.
I agree with so much of what you’ve said. Speaking for meself, with the SSP hat off for a minute, what we have now is a civil rights movement/campaign in its infancy.
Non-violent civil disobedience is effective. It transcends party-political differences and works best without any central control. As many here pointed out (with some dismay at times) the official Yes campaign became little more than a funky office at a cool address – the momentum and energy which drove Scottish indy-ref to the very top of the international news agenda and frightened the bejayzus out of the British state was generated by us.
Don’t forget Orwell’s vignette about seeing the wee boy leading the enormous cart-horse – we already have the power to call for UDI any time we like, and the longer WM fannies about, pretending to deliver ‘further powers’, the more compelling our case becomes.
Andrew Marr is a proud unionist brit jock with serious leanings toward liebour. About as trustworthy and honest as Tony Bliar is.
The referendum has taught this shower, if they didn’t already know, that if you tell people in Scotland ad-nauseum a fact, which the MSM colludes in portraying as such despite it being a lie, then the majoroity of people here will be suckered in.
There is no need to tell the truth if nobody forces you to do so, such is the relationship between the unionists and MSM here.
Very O/T.
Is it just me or are the shops suddenly full of produce with Union Flags?
The Co-op and Morrisons both are full of cooked meat with UJ’s on them. Not the tractor marks, the flag. I am generally refusing to buy it. I did get ham today from Lidl which was produced in Kirkconnel. I also see Lidls has lots of our flags on chicken eggs and meat.
Was it always the case that the UJ was everywhere, or is it unfortunate, but Asda stocks more Scottish produce – and I aint been in there since Sept 18th?
And I have been unable to buy Ayrshire Middle at all this month in any shop!
Now is the time to consolidate and produce a manifesto that will in someway appeal to the majority of Scots.We have to be as inclusive as we can,health/education/jobs at the top of the agenda,radical/innovative new policies should be a priority we need far seeing persons to drive us forward,Scotland is known and admired throughout the world in these areas unfortunately mostly in foreign fields but it is in our DNA let us encourage and give the support to those that have the vision and drive to carry us forward.We can create a completely new country newand fair for all.
Valerie says:
16 November, 2014 at 8:05 pm
“Hospital is not now closing thanks to pressure from Labour”
Next week a new rumour will come to your area 🙁
At some point they need to get some new material.
Examples from Labour Spin 101 handbook
Selectively present facts and quotes that support your position. Sometimes a spin doctor can manipulate the words of an adversary and come up with a statement that ends up supporting the spin doctor’s client. A good example of this is Ms. X saying, “I admire Mr. Z, but he has made a terrible error.” The spin becomes, “Ms. X said today that she ‘admires’ Mr. Z.”
Example: Also works in reverse – Alex Salmond Putin magazine comment
Learn to use the non-denial denial, saying something such as “We didn’t know that this company was intending to outsource it’s manufacturing plant to Brazil”–when in fact, you knew that the company was going overseas, just not that it was specifically going to Brazil. In other words, say something made to sound like a denial, without actually being one.
Example: Way too many from Labour:D
2,500 years ago Plato/Socrates forecast TV manipulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave
Up at 25,919 for anyone who hasn’t signed yet
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/574/697/105/put-scotland-in-control-of-scottish-broadcasting/
@davidb,
You’ll find Ayrshire Middle @ ALDI 😀
Findlay stood shoulder to shoulder with the Tories to keep nuclear weapons on the Clyde.
Neil Findlay also said on Marr show he (Lab) should look at the PFI contracts and bring them back in-house.
What was he meaning by that.
Vote Labour get Tory.
Excellent post from Wingman 2020 .This gets to the heart of the
Matter.The Scottish broadcasting “trust fund” idea sounds
Very interesting indeed.( long term) However probably to short a time frame for
GE 2015 to prevent the mainstream “Scottish media” having a clear
Run at backing “New Slab ” ( party of the poor and downtrodden)
Over the next 6 months
@ yesindyref2 says: at 7:47 pm
Curiously Neil Findlay is an anagram of
Fly in and Lie
excellent – you could not make it up! – anyone volunteering to point this out to Andrew Marr?
@ yesindyref2 says: at 7:47 pm
Curiously Neil Findlay is an anagram of
Fly in and Lie
excellent – you could not make it up! – anyone volunteering to point this out to Andrew Marr?
James
it means they are using proindyscot ideas to try and influence their post indyscot position.
if they felt that strongly about proindyscot ideas they should have campaigned for a yes vote!
RE: The Wee Blue Book.
If you’re trying to get someone to read the WBB but don’t have
any spare copies to give away why not try the following:
(only useful if they have access to the internet)
Write the following on a piece of card/paper, approximately the
size of a business card:
“THE FACTS THE PAPERS LEAVE OUT”
http://wingsoverscotland.com/weebluebook
And either hand it to them during a casual conversation
strongly urging and recommending them to check-it-out OR
just pop it through their letter box.
Not only will this expose them to the truth and get our message
across, it will bring new readers directly to this site.
After the festive season is over i plan to get some of these
small business cards printed off and then go around my area
putting them through peoples doors.
It will cost me something around £5 per 100 cards.
When you compare that to the price of just one WBB you can see
the potential benefits and advantages of doing things this way.
After the referendum i’ve been itching to get going again and
think that this could be a very simple and productive way of
spreading the word. You are also allowing people to find out
for themselves and you’re not hassling them in the street.
The way i’m looking at it is this – if i can convince just one
person over to our side, out of the 100 possibilities, then it
has been money well spent (what else can you get for a fiver?).
And if i need to print off another hundred it’s hardly going
to break the bank, is it!
I also get out and about keeping up my fitness on these cold winter nights.
🙂
btw, my Wee Blue Book is a very much cherished part of my
family history research collection. I want future generations
of my family to see and get a feel for some of the great work
people were putting into the fight for Scotland’s future.
Well that’s him lost the contest…. Oops, wait, Murphy has already won it, Brit Propaganda BBC has selected their man
O/T
The few No voters I kin are confused when I ask them do they think their team will beat Scotland this week, and they look ashamed when I ask if they will sing God save their queen when supporting England, cos that’s what they voted for
Not sure if this has been covered but Douglas Fraser raises a laugh over on the BBC:
Devo More: What does business want?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30050368
Where is the BBC in this? Central, you might think. But silent. It hasn’t put in a submission. I asked why, and was told that – as with the referendum – the Corporation wants to protect its impartiality in reporting the debate.
@ FRED BLOGGER
Good point. .I was going to write to Labour H.Q. suggesting they change their name to Socialist National Party so that when they get humped at the election they have a ready made excuse due to misunderstanding of the electorate who they were actually voting for. But on second thoughts I do not think the electorate would know that in any event
cynicalHighlander says:
16 November, 2014 at 9:15 pm
Vote Labour get Tory.
Yes, quite!
wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/scotvotes4.jpg
Re MSM bias, I have just listened to an interview on Bateman Broadcasting with Paul Holleran, Scottish Organiser of the NUJ.
batemanbroadcasting.com/episode-22/
To be fair to Holleran, he was a Yes voter and a statement he put out on the NUJ website was disgracefully altered and published by mainstream newspapers, then lifted wholesale from those papers by the BBC, who did not bother to check the original source. So he was the victim of some media bias himself.
However, the general thrust of his argument appeared to be that his members were unfairly criticised for biased reporting. I have to say that he didn’t manage to convince me; it sounded more like the old “A big boy did it and ran away” line than anything else.
cynicalHighlander says:
16 November, 2014 at 9:15 pm
Vote Labour get Tory.
Yes, quite!
http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/scotvotes4.jpg
OMG, do the lies and mixed messages never end.. FACE PALM!
They’d be as well getting Opie from Family Guy to answer the questions..
@ Stoker at 9.33
Unless of course you want to add something yourself, you don’t need to design a WBB business card:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-wee-blue-book-how-you-can-help/#more-59793
The single-sided version lets you put your own stuff on the back.
In our new “Fo[r?]ward” shop in Dunoon the biggest demand we have is for copies of the Wee Blue Book.
I’ve still got one copy I keep in my handbag, and I’d be sorry to give it away. Interestingly, Joan said to me rather apologetically that she hoped I had a spare as she really didn’t want to give her own copy away to her son.
Fortunately, the one I absentmindedly left in my office over the referendum week is going spare and I’ll give her that one. But I wonder if there is somewhere that has some copies still in stock? Or is there any mileage in considering another limited print run? Stu did suggest he would do this after the referendum, as an incentive to us not to hoard them as personal souvenirs.
(Sadly, many were probably binned on sight by unionists, where uncanvassed areas were covered wholesale, but what else could we have done at the time? I know that strategy did yield converts.)
I’ve still got some WBB business cards someone gave me. But they’re not much use for people who aren’t online. If I hadn’t had a spare WBB my only recourse would have been to print off a copy on my own printer for Joan, and while I could have done that, the result isn’t anywhere close to professional.
Write to the lying prick…
Neil.Findlay.msp@scottish.parliament.uk
@BrianW
They’d be as well getting Opie from Family Guy to answer the questions..
I thought Opie just resigned as leader of SLAB.
Everyone needs to stop putting this picture of Jim Murphy holding a hunter-killer class submarine when writing about Trident nuclear subs. It’s more than a little misleading, wouldn’t you say? I really am sick of seeing it being done.
@haggishunter
Did not watch the rugby yesterday but somewhat surprised to see Scotland wearing a red, white and blue strip but I suppose the SRU think we are now North Britain again.
Why bother singing Flower of Scotland when God save the Queen would suffice. They could even sing the third verse for good measure to show their complete subservience.
The Scottish Labour Party,
UNCLEAR on NUCLEAR!!!
Write to your local Labour MP/MSP and ask them to clarify their Party’s policy on Nuclear Weapons.
And while your at it, ask them where the new Type 26 Frigates will be getting built, Scotland or France?
The crawling SFA were always adding red to the Scots team colour whilst the Engerland team kept adding blue to make us al Team GB red white and Blue Brits together.
Taken from the SNP FB page this morning:-
“Jim Murphy: “Ed [Miliband] and I have spoken about this quite a bit and we’re in the same place, which is that we’re not a unilateralist party and we’re not about to become a unilateralist party.” [New Statesman 7/3/13]
On 6th August 2014, Neil Findlay and Labour voted against a Scottish Parliamentary motion calling for the calling for the ‘speediest safe withdrawal of nuclear weapons’, and failed to propose any amendment.”
@gus1940 5.45
I hoped you logged a complaint? Its boring, but often pays
Just out of curiosity. I know how many posts have appeared on this site, but how many individuals actually use it? Does anyone have a figure?. Would be a good indicator of support when added to other sites.
@galamcennalath 8.21
did you log a complaint with the Marr show? http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/andrew_marr_show/contact_us/default.stm
Just thought but is it possible that this was the start of Findlay and Boyack making pretty obvious public gaffs in their role in the sham leadership contest ?
Boss’s orders and they’d be only too happy to oblige. Rewarded later of coarse.
@ caledonia 8.22 ?????? pretty sure I saw nothing like that on wings and certain that Nicola said no such thing ????
Stick to the brick laying Mr Findlay, you came into Holyrood as a list MSP and you’ll be leaving as a List MSP – no longer required – post filled by SNP.
Just a parting shot, Mr Findlay – you know you told a huge lie to Andrew Marr – you’re up to yer oxters in Trident support mode – what are you going to do about it? Apologise to him? Same to Milliband? Oh, and how about the Scottish voters – you know, the ones you’re trying to get to vote for you?
Leave the lying to the liar, par excellence – Jackie Baillie.
Don’t you just love the idea that we are seeing SLab and Labour being better together, God only knows what they would be like if they were independent. Poor sobs, maybe there are lessons to be learned.
Ronnie Anderson says
“G.H.Graham. Theres nae fairies in the fairy pool on Skye.
Caz_M. Theres nae Santa Claus.
Canny beleive anybody these days> except fellow Wingers.”
Gee Ronnie, that was harsh!
Oh btw can you lend me £50.00?
I swear I’ll give you it back on Friday.
😉
Seasick Dave @9.43
Really? NO REALLY?
There has to be an avenue we can take to fight this disgraceful removal of the rights of Scots to comment on the BBC Scotland website?
These people are getting away with reporting any old rubbish and we cant comment?
This takes us into the realms of the USSR where the public were told what to think and had no recourse to argue an alternative case,
Surely there is a case for taking this to the European Court of Human rights?
I know I’m speaking to the converted but do we really have to put up with this?
Isn’t it time the mouse turned?
Does anyone know if a “class action” can be taken to the ECoHR?
OK thats done,
I just sent an email to the ECHR
to ask how we would take a case against the BBC for breaching our right of reply as they (uniquely) do not allow the right of reply on the Scottish BBC website,
Lets see what they say.
Who’s got his legal hat on that can read this and figure out if a case can be taken with the ECHR against the BBC?
http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Admissibility_guide_ENG.pdf
Just saw this point in the rules (not surprised) does anyone know if the legality of BBC Scotland’s refusal of RoR has been tested in a Scottish court?
Article 35 § 1 – Admissibility criteria
“The Court may only deal with the matter after all domestic remedies have been exhausted, according to the
generally recognised rules of international law, and within a period of six months from the date on which the
final decision was taken.”
Just filled in the time wasting online EBC complaint form about the Andrew Marr Interview soft interview with Findlay the liar. I don’t expect a proper reply other than the usual dismissive EBC speak waffle
I’m fed up filling it in Donald,
just for them to do a little mind dance round me.
I’ve lost count of the complaints I’ve raised and only once did they (grudgingly)accept I had a point.
Where is the BBC in this? Central, you might think. But silent. It hasn’t put in a submission. I asked why, and was told that – as with the referendum – the Corporation wants to protect its impartiality in reporting the debate.
Still laughing … sadly.
I have watched Finlay on Marr twice., A body language expert like TVS Mr Beattie would , in my opinion, call him out as a liar on a few occasion .
GMS just spouted , 2 Labour leadership candidates declare they are against Trident Renewal .
The ” machine ” is up an running already .
FFS , I feel PQ 10 commin on !
I agree with posters above , NF sounded like an SNP !
Naw it’s a fake Labourite with nae backbone ! An Nae Principles !
We all know that a UK Labour Party will never change direction on this one and Hollyrood have no power on the matter .
NF can defy Milliped all he likes .
Mind you as posted above the TAS Brick may not be able to understand .
Just caught BBC in Scotland radio news headline “prospective labour leader says he’ll defy Milliband over Trident” which is quite neat spin doctoring really from that bunch of fraudsters. It’s nice that they are actually working a little bit at peddling another nukes out Labour in Scotland fraud on us suckers. The Vow gets buried but can they do it with WMD’s so near Glasgow, for keeping teamGB safe?
Like I said earlier on thread doesn’t matter whether two candidates are ‘personally’ against trident renewal, the party makes sure they ‘dae as their telt’. This is a branch office and it carries no clout, no importance other than electoral currency in the commons for whatever Labour leader of the day decides is an important issue. Labour leadership is crystal clear on their stance about the UKs nuclear deterent – they want and need it, end of.
Oh, and that’s only if you believe the two candidates, and frankly they and the party they represent have given me plenty of cause to doubt their word on just way too many occasions. Why should we believe a single damn word they utter?
Did BBC Radio Scotland GMS not ask Findlay why he did vote against Trident in Scottish Parliament and question his empty rhetoric?
Tpyo Findlay did NOT vote against Trident.
Did BBC Radio Scotland GMS not ask Findlay why he did vote against Trident in Scottish Parliament and question his empty rhetoric?
Maybe, it’s all a teamGB blur now. What the fraudsters didn’t ask was, is this an actual fact and if not, why say it on BBC telly to national treasure Andrew Marr in London, the greatest City the world has ever known etc
“Andrew, it’s already Labour Party policy in Scotland to oppose the renewal of Trident. Has been for some time.”
But they didn’t because that would have been journalism and UKOK propaganda. At least they’re Al working though.
Appalling…
https://twitter.com/052Erik/status/533951907996246017/photo/1
Will make a good poster
“Did BBC Radio Scotland GMS not ask Findlay why he did[n’t] vote against Trident in Scottish Parliament and question his empty rhetoric?”
To be fair, yes they did. He had a pretty uncomfortable time.
So that’s it, BBC vote Labour or else spin now today is two leader candidates are against Trident but Murphy isn’t, and that’s it, so don’t worry which is pretty good propaganda. Otherwise there nothing much happening in Scotland today. Does anything ever happen in Scotland and Why do these liggers just repeat English news, because it works.
Sorry about all the typos!
On 15 February 1971, the UK changed to the Decimal system of currency. For the past 43 years we’ve been living in a new order.
As of lately, we are now living in another new order, not of money this time, but media.
So it is time to change. With decimilisation, we all had to change together, so with the media it would be better if we all started to treat the media in the same way – particularly the BBC.
Why am I saying this? Because there does seem to be rather a lot of people who appear unwilling to accept that the BBC has become a very serious enemy of democracy.
Evidence the continuation of the belief that the BBC is governed by its charter, is a paradigm of virtue and decency, and is incapable of deceit.
Marr? With the rest of the BBC, he has defected to neo-Liberalism. Why complain about him?
Be as well to complain that Putin is Russian.
And yet millions still pay a hefty premium of £145 for the privilege of receiving Neo-Liberal Dogma 24 hrs a day.
This new ‘religion’, embraced by an avowed secular society;
they must have been brainwashed.
I blame the non-denominational schools.
The neo-liberal school curriculum must be revised.
Where was I? Ah yes, the BBC. Now a mere tool of the super rich to keep the faithful believers, and the stupid, docile and subservient.
These are the commandments:
1st -Turn up. 2nd – Pay up. 3rd – Shut up.
Do you pay a TV Licence fee? Is your living room furniture arranged for viewing television.
Do you spend hours every day watching it.
Are you reluctant to move?
No desire to change?
Then you too are probably a member of the neo-Liberal faith.
Better Together in the same religion.
Manandboy and yet yesterday at an SNP meeting a woman said that people were wrong to stop paying their licence fee. That she felt it was important to continue. Why, I have no idea, we are treated daily indeed if you watch a lot of TV, hourly to nothing but news of another country and when they speak about Scotland at all it is as foreign as from France or indeed anywhere else. Recently I have felt do I actually have a US passport when treated to the speeches of the President of the US. No wonder some feel they are English, they might as well be.
I wholeheartedly agree with the non payment of the licence fee.
O/T – and before this topic is superseded …
There is a Women for Independence event in Troon this coming Sunday (23rd). Details and tickets are available here:
http://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/women-for-independence-meeting-in-ayrshire-tickets-13951097107
Your support will be appreciated.
Any idea what time Neil ‘Charisma’ Findlay was on GMS?
semi related to this topic i.e. just how bad the media is:
https://archive.today/A7Um8
Hilarious Daily Record spin on an opinion poll. My favourite line, though, is not from the Daily Record but from Anas Sarwar. “It comes as no surprise many people have fallen out. This is what happens when Yes side run a campaign based on division”
Listened to Gary Robertson v Findlay, once the latter kept saying Gary in every reply it was obvious he was on the back foot. However he did claim that the Trident vote included independence which was why he never supported it?
“However he did claim that the Trident vote included independence which was why he never supported it?”
Not sure on the ins and outs of that but its a cop out. Apparently Trident is a matter of conscience / principle for him but he is happy to sacrifice that so that he is not seen to agree the SNP, heaven forbid. As usual with Labour in Scotland principle comes second to Unionism. The guy was full of empty rhetoric and it didn’t take long for him to start banging on about the SNP as they always do. If the guy really believes all the stuff he spouts then the reality is he should have supported YES, there is not a chance in hell that anything he says shall happen in the current setup with Labour / Westminister. That is why is he and Labour in Scotland are a fraud and that interview was a complete car crash.
@Seasick Dave
The iPlayer link is http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04p548y and the interview/ramble starts at 2h 10m 13s in.
Hi Seasick Dave
Mr Charisma was on at 08:08 til 08:18
Note do not be drinking or eating anything while listening as your likely to spray mouth content over your listening equipment of choice!
To say it was a car crash, would be being kind
I actually felt uncomfortable at his obvious discomfort
as he tried to explain his abject spin
@crisiscult
Saw that DR poll. When I saw the way the graphic had been presented I actually laughed out loud. What a bunch of chancers. Scumbags.
Thanks, Jim and Edward, I’ll clear the table 🙂
@crisiscult
The Record and Sarwar…
… and they’ve earned so much trust from us (cough).
An unquestioning peddler of big government narratives and a liar. Bit like bacon and eggs, some things just go well together. 🙂
crisiscult, on that DR Poll, did they ask the entire membership of the Labour Pary?
Sorry,,,,,,Party.
The most sickening thing about that Daily Record poll and David Clegg’s spin on it is that it is almost certain that most of the 25% who say that they never want another referendum are the Tory voters.
Typical that the Daily Record, mouthpiece of the Labour Party, will use the opinions of Tories to suit it’s own unionist agenda, don’t they make you want to puke.
Im sure I heard Findlay tell the beeb bloke that he’s a member of CND too! Which is like joining PETA whilst continuing to strangle kittens or beat seal cubs to death. For what’s really going to happen, I like to consult Libby Carrel of rancid old Graun, who says Eggs Murphy he the man for their red tory Scotland region, yesterday anyway
LibbyBrooks ArseneKnows
16 November 2014 2:18pm
Recommend
27
I’m curious: Murphy is so often dismissed as a New Labour/Blairite loyalist, but I wonder if that really means much these days?
As one Labour supporter said to me at SNP conference this weekend: up here, Blairite just means anyone who didn’t support Gordon, and nobody with any sense supported Gordon….”
Exciting and enigmatic too but Libbys just one more teamGB ligger who can find a Labour “supporter” at an SNP conference and Murphy’s a Guardian “shoe in” which is fair enough, as they won the referendum so they think they can make their Scotland region vote red tory as much they like. We’ll see.
Departing First Minister Alex Salmond launches scathing attack on BBC for helping Westminster win No Vote
There is a poll asking if you agree with the FM
https://archive.today/VPXHF
Holy moley, Neil Findlay is a complete bawheid!
I just don’t get these North British Labour people.
They want us to be One Nation and Better Together and yet all the time they want to be different from Westminster and the rest of the Labour Party.
WTF?
So 25% are hard UKOK and wont change, don’t even want to talk about it again. We only had 25% hardcore YES at start of campaign. All to play for now in the middle ground. “Will” far from “settled” in Scotland despite Uninist parties and MSM wanting us to shut up and move to the back of the bus.
Anas Sarwar, Scotland’s millionaire hereditary MP.
Valerie @ 11:47 am.
“Anas Sarwar, Scotland’s millionaire hereditary MP.”
You missed out the word ‘Labour’.
Nana Smith.
had a wee peek at the poll about BBC bias and voted YES of course. It’s at 100% YES .:)
Says it all
I don’t undestand why anyone’s entertaining the possibility of a New Labour/SNP coalition, even an “issue by issue” one, at Westminster: surely we know from past experience that Labour would rather the Tories form the government than work with the SNP? Combine that with Nicola’s terms regarding Trident and austerity, there’s no way New Labour would work with the SNP. It’ll be a hung parliament or a Tory/UKIP coalition – hell, a New Labour/UKIP coalition’s more likely.
Frankly I’d be happier that way: New Labour have shown themselves to be practically indistinguishable from the Tories anyway, and I really don’t like the idea of the SNP continuously offering these olive branches to a party that deserves nothing.
Morag, after much soul-searching and reflection, I truly don’t think the referendum went to No through the Yes campaign doing anything wrong. Yes Scotland itself we can argue, same with any individual organisation. But the fact of the matter is we did far, FAR better than we had any right to, with practically everything working against us.
What we need to do is keep doing what we’ve been doing – it WAS working. The Wee Blue Book, Wings, canvassing, everything was working – it just wasn’t sufficient for this time, especially with the forces against us.
Nana Smith says:
17 November, 2014 at 11:16 am
There is a poll asking if you agree with the FM
https://archive.today/VPXHF
___________________________
Mmmmm, mibees aye, mibees naw.
BBC = British Bullshit Corporation.
The DR = Aye, they have every right to be biased just as we
have every right to shun and demonise that rag of unionist shite and drivel.
Had a wee look, Nana, but still trying to work out the con or
reasons behind this article/poll.
Look what happened to the Limp Dums and their “issue by issue” coalition deal.
Remember who we are dealing with and their history of treachery and hostility. Trust hem not.
No shortage of Labour members who supported CND, the difficulty lies with the multi or uni lateral position. Findlay would appear to favour the latter in his morning grilling by the odious sweetiewife Gary Robertson, he wants Trident out of Britain while he claims the SNP only want it out of Scotland. This position ignores the fact that removal from Scotland leaves Trident homeless as there’s nowhere else can take it or wants it.
That said, his failure to support the anti-Trident replacement vote was due to the motion being linked to independance. If this is the case? it’s consistent with his argument. He never tabled any amendments, which aint.
Compared to Murphy, Findlay seems quite a decent guy, he at least is no stranger to the “Workin Jaiket” and the working class is sadly under-represented at a Holyrood where the glass ceiling has now patently vanished for women.
@Fred re.
‘Compared to Murphy, Findlay seems quite a decent guy, he at least is no stranger to the “Workin Jaiket”
Don’t be beguiled by this stalking horse liar. The last time he saw a’workin jaiket’ was probably when he had a tradesman doing a ‘homer’ on his conservatory.
He’s as big a phoney as Murphy, but is playing up the working class schtik and anti-Trident pose.