Scottish independence, plus jokes.

Wings Over Scotland


Assets and liabilities

Posted on September 05, 2013 by

The results of some of the questions in this week’s Panelbase independence poll are so striking we just couldn’t help ourselves. Let’s have a quick delve.

salmondlectern5

Most spectacular are the leader ratings, so we’ll take a look at those.

VERY SATISFIED

Alex Salmond: 25%
David Cameron: 5%
Ed Miliband: 1%
Nick Clegg: 1%

SLIGHTLY SATISFIED

Alex Salmond: 23%
David Cameron: 16%
Ed Miliband: 12%
Nick Clegg: 12%

NEITHER SATISFIED NOR DISSATISFIED

Ed Miliband: 28%
Nick Clegg: 21%
Alex Salmond: 16%
David Cameron: 13%

SLIGHTLY DISSATISFIED

Ed Miliband: 20%
David Cameron: 18%
Nick Clegg: 18%
Alex Salmond: 14%

VERY DISSATISFIED

David Cameron: 48%
Nick Clegg: 48%
Ed Miliband: 39%
Alex Salmond: 23%

(It’s a shame the Scottish “leaders” of the London parties weren’t included too, but we suspect that would just have resulted in a high level of “Who?” responses.)

These are astonishing results by any measure. David Cameron and Nick Clegg have been in power for about half as long as Alex Salmond, and Salmond is vilified on a near-daily basis in a deeply personal way that simply doesn’t happen to the coalition leaders, yet his approval ratings are stratospheric by comparison.

Salmond’s 25% “very satisfied” compared to 1% for Clegg and Miliband (who hasn’t had to deal with any of the unpopularity of office) is little short of mind-boggling, and mirrored by just half as many Scots being “very dissatisfied” with him as the other three leaders, leading to net approval ratings like this:

Alex Salmond: +11
David Cameron: -45
Ed Miliband: -46
Nick Clegg: -53

That’s a staggering gulf of 56 points between Salmond and his nearest competitor. It remains, then, a mystery to this site why Labour in particular are so desperate to turn the referendum into a personal one about the SNP leader (“Scotland versus Salmond”, as Johann Lamont put it yesterday in her grim speech at the opening of the Holyrood session) rather than independence.

You’d imagine that after that tactic went so horribly wrong for them in 2007 and 2011 they’d learn the lesson, but the party’s hatred appears to overpower all sense, even though their protests about the regional ballot paper being marked “Alex Salmond for First Minister” showed that they did grasp it on some primitive level.

And finally, here’s perhaps the most remarkable stat of all.

SCOTTISH LABOUR VOTERS “VERY” OR “SLIGHTLY” SATISFIED

Alex Salmond: 29%
Ed Miliband: 28%

Someone tell us again, as a commenter did this week, that the First Minister is a handicap to the Yes campaign. We just can’t get enough of hearing that one. But we’ll give the very last word to the Scottish media’s analysis of these same figures:

“Alex Salmond sharply divides opinion in Scottish voter satisfaction ratings, the latest poll findings show with just over a year to the independence referendum.”

Bless. You can, at least, never accuse them of being unpredictable.

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304 to “Assets and liabilities”

  1. Albert Herring says:

    So Salmond divides opinion, eh?

    Not something that can be claimed for the other leaders!

  2. DMyers says:

    Bless them indeed.  I suppose they can’t* really print ‘Salmond isn’t actually unpopular’, can they?

    *won’t

  3. Tamson says:

    You’ll need to put those numbers in Roman numerals, Rev…

  4. Gizzit says:

    It’s a common misconception by the Naysayers – they have such personal animosity towards Alex Salmond, they cannot conceive that their dislike isn’t universally shared.
     
    Alex hands out some verbal spankings routinely to Rennie, Lamont and Davidson – and they don’t enjoy it very much.  They imagine that by portraying the YES campaign as an Alex Salmond/SNP effort, they are somehow denigrating it.  Quite apart from the fact that the Scottish electorate have sufficient nous to see through such blatant chicanery, this survey demonstrates that they are simply shooting themselves in the foot – again.

  5. thorbor says:

    Regarding  labours tactics
    what choice do they have  apart from going negative, even they know theyre arguments are weak
     
    Must be terrible to live in fear 
    I

  6. Iain says:

    ‘Alex Salmond sharply divides opinion in Scottish voter satisfaction ratings, the latest poll findings show with just over a year to the independence referendum.’
     
    Tbf by comparison the opinions of Scottish electorate appear remarkably UN-divided about the other three leaders. Perhaps that’s what they meant :)

  7. Doug says:

    “Not something that can be claimed for the other leaders!”  Very true indeed.  The feelings are somewhat closer to unanimous on them…
     
    Agree with Stu about wishing there was data on the other three (who they?)

  8. muttley79 says:

    @Rev Stu
    It remains, then, a mystery to this site why Labour in particular are so desperate to turn the referendum into a personal one about the SNP leader (“Scotland versus Salmond”, as Johann Lamont put it yesterday in her grim speech at the opening of the Holyrood session) rather than independence.

    You’d imagine that after that tactic went so horribly wrong for them in 2007 and 2011 they’d learn the lesson, but the party’s hatred appears to overpower all sense, even though their protests about the regional ballot paper being marked “Alex Salmond for First Minister” showed that they did grasp it on some primitive level.
     
    SLAB are doing this because they do not have any other tactic they can use.   It also fits perfectly into their hatred of Salmond and the SNP in particular.  They have no vision, no ideas, no principles.

    Someone tell us again, as a commenter did this week, that the First Minister is a handicap to the Yes campaign. We just can’t get enough of hearing that one. But we’ll give the very last word to the Scottish media’s analysis of these same figures:

    “Alex Salmond sharply divides opinion in Scottish voter satisfaction ratings, the latest poll findings show with just over a year to the independence referendum.”

    Bless. You can, at least, never accuse them of being unpredictable.
     
    The MSM know how good and skilled a politician Salmond is.  Far from being a hindrance to the Yes campaign, he is a major asset.  That they have spent the best part of two years attacking him shows that this is the case.  If they really thought Salmond was a hindrance to the Yes campaign, they would just ignore him.  He is a major threat to Scotland’s dependency campaign, don’t let them tell us otherwise.

  9. Stevie Mach says:

    And this was before Miliband lost his party a £million

  10. Murray McCallum says:

    The endless personal attacks that Alex Salmond has dealt with so well have probably earned him respect among traditional Labour supporters.  This is especially the case given Labour’s obvious lack of talent and/or leadership.  People are simply contrasting AS with the [lack of] alternatives.
     
    I find AS at his best (and I am not an SNP voter) when he keeps his cool, voice low and simply comes out with the rational argument.  He will win that as invariably the people he is up against very often have no clear policy or rational argument.

  11. Doug Daniel says:

    Ahhh, logic: the victim of the No campaign.

  12. Juteman says:

    I remember reading an article about Putin, and how he was popular at home because the Russians like a ‘strong man’ as leader.
    Maybe we Scots have that mentality, and like to see ‘our’ man take on the enemies of Scotland?
     

  13. muttley79 says:

    @Gizzit
     
    It’s a common misconception by the Naysayers – they have such personal animosity towards Alex Salmond, they cannot conceive that their dislike isn’t universally shared.
     
    That is exactly what it is.

     
    Alex hands out some verbal spankings routinely to Rennie, Lamont and Davidson – and they don’t enjoy it very much.  They imagine that by portraying the YES campaign as an Alex Salmond/SNP effort, they are somehow denigrating it.  Quite apart from the fact that the Scottish electorate have sufficient nous to see through such blatant chicanery, this survey demonstrates that they are simply shooting themselves in the foot – again.
     
    Just as they run down Scotland’s ability to run its own affairs constantly, they also will not recognise the political nous of the Scottish electorate.  Remember this is an electorate who had the gumption, ability, good taste, (suaveness even :D ) to tactically vote out the Tories, beginning in the 1980s, and continuing to a climax in the late 1990s.  This suggests that the Scottish electorate’s bullshit meter is at an advanced level.  The Unionist parties and their buddies in the MSM should not underestimate this for a second.  Their more powers promises will have to undergo the bullshit meter test of the Scottish people.
     

  14. Shinty says:

    I find AS at his best (and I am not an SNP voter) when he keeps his cool, voice low and simply comes out with the rational argument.

    Neither am I, but I have great deal of respect for AS and proud that he is FM of Scotland. Not one of his predecessors or opponents are fit to lick his boots.

  15. Macart says:

    I don’t care what anyone says, I like the fella. I know he can appear a bit smug sometimes, but hey, he can back it up. He’s more intelligent by far than anything the opposition can summon north or south of the border and as politicians go he’s no three bad on the trust and transparency stakes either.
     
    Whatever else you may believe about the man, you absolutely know beyond any reasonable doubt that he is for Scotland’s corner first, last and always. There is no asking for permission from any head office, just get the job done.

  16. Keith Brodie says:

    @ Rev Stu
     
    I posted this on another thread, but just i case you missed it and as it is on-topic on this thread I thought I’d give it another go.
     
    Just thought you would be interested in this – about Paypal freezing crowd-sourced funds.

  17. Dorothy Devine says:

    ‘Scotland versus Salmond’ could be the way to win ” so that’s where the journalist incapable of writing anything other than “I hate Alex Salmond ” articles got his headline.
    It is a disgrace that that pillock is still writing drivel and ordure and still being paid for the crud he writes.
    I have no doubt he will expect to be allowed to attend the SNP conference and be allowed to comment in true baloney style , encouraged by a small football shaped man with loud braces.
    I would be very tempted if I was the FM to ban both of them and to invite some international news agencies to cover proceedings.

  18. Piemonteis says:

    There’s little doubt that Alex Salmond’s popularity has persuaded a number of people who would otherwise have voted No to vote Yes. But by the same token, his unpopularity among just over a third of the population (according to this poll) creates an impenetrable barrier to persuading some of these voters to vote Yes.
     
    The question is, Is AS a net contributor in this respect? In other words, A large number of voters would vote Yes whether AS was there or not, just as a large number of voters would vote No in any case. So, does he win round more potential No voters than he repels potential Yes voters? Perhaps when the tables for this Q5 of the poll are out, there might be a way of analyzing this.
     
    Interestingly enough, I have one friend who was an anti-Salmond, definite No voter a couple of years ago, when one day AS popped into the office where he worked to resolve some constituency matters. After AS took some time to chat with him and his colleagues before seeing the boss, this mate completely changed his opinion of the man. Unfortunately, he is still a staunch No and loyal Labour voter.

  19. Iain says:

    @Dorothy Devine
    ‘Scotland versus Salmond’ could be the way to win ” so that’s where the journalist incapable of writing anything other than “I hate Alex Salmond ” articles got his headline.
    It is a disgrace that that pillock is still writing drivel and ordure and still being paid for the crud he writes.’
     
    I suspect Cockers wrote that before the Panelbase leader ratings were released; it’s great when an idiot removes all doubt, all by himself!

  20. jr ewen says:

    Rev, I did my first panelbase poll today and surprisingly the Indyref question came up. The poll was very simple and short.
    1st asked normal questions of previous voting, holyrood 2011, etc. 2nd the normal wording of “next year scotland will be voting in a ref… if it was held tomorrow how would you vote”
    Should Scotland be an independent country 
    then another question on voting for westminister. previous and future GE
    and that was it. nothing to skew outcomes at all so it will be interesting to see the result of that one.

  21. ` says:

    Even MARR in his book called him a “genus” I perhaps would not go that far, but he is indeed a “Brilliant Politician “.  Yes,  as others have said he is a little smug at times and this is what women in particular, tend to pick on.
    However,there has been a change in this recently which may change all that.He hears the problem and he  knows how, and is, changing this.  Tough as it might be sometimes when he has so much crap to deal  with.
    I look on Alex Salmond as a true Patriot, if you look back in time when he was a young man, his outlook on Scotland and it’s Westminster induced problem, what he says has not changed. He is a man of principle in politics, something we have few of.
    I am proud to have him as Scotland’s first Minister many others do to, and as time goes on people are realizing that too. He indeed wants to improve the lot of Scots,of that I am certain.

  22. CameronB says:

    As anyone who has ever played a contact sport such as football or rugby knows, without an effective referee, it is not unusual for the man to be ‘played’ instead of the ball.
     
    Thank you Scottish MSM, for your incredible short-sightedness.

  23. david says:

    my pal who knew a guy who knew another guy said alex salmond was caught picking his nose when he was a child. how can anyone support this man ?

  24. Barney Thomson says:

    Mr Salmond is popular in some surprising places –
     
    “New Tory MSP says Alex Salmond ‘class act’”
     
    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/new-tory-msp-says-alex-salmond-class-act-1-3057050

  25. Macart says:

    pillock |?p?l?k|noun Brit., informala stupid person.ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: variant of archaicpillicock [penis,] the early sense of pillock in dialects of northern England. Modern variant ‘a right Cochrane‘ [see Telegraph].
     
    Who knew?

  26. Tasmanian says:

    Genus Salmondii, species Alex?

  27. jim mitchell says:

    Re is Alex Salmond an asset to the Yes campaign, well lets face it he hasn’t really got involved that much yet, it’s the No lot who keep mentioning him, which kinda gives the game away about how scared they are of any possible effect he might have, and of course we know how effective the better together campaign thought that JL. WR and RD would be to their campaign when they brought a certain Mr Darling in to head it up and when some Labour supporters wanted something different in the shape of Labour Forward, they brought in Gordon Brown.
    Says it all really!

  28. Gillie says:

    Don’t you think that Johann Lamont is looking a bit peely-wally.

  29. Gillie says:

    …. and then we have this
     
    “Scottish Independence campaigner, 80, attacked”
     
    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-campaigner-80-attacked-1-3077094

  30. Barontorc says:

    Alex Salmond’s the very man for me and for Scotland. No matter what his critics say – he has always put his country first and I believe he has put his commitment to his politics above his self-interest, which scores double bonus points from me.
     
    Let’s not kid ourselves, when we were up against the dark forces, it was AS and his team that carried us through – not just AS on his own, but he controls and commands the respect of his team of MSPs and Ministers and they share his vision and purpose for our country.
     
    Any other party in the UK would give its right arm to have such a leader available – none have and that is glaringly obvious to the BBC and MSM unionistas, who quite shamelessly  picked up the UK partisan flag and tried their damn best to do their job for them – in vain, I am very please to add.
     
    The stronger the criticism of AS from these nonentities – the more pleasing it is to the eye.

  31. Gillie says:

    ………… and then you have to laugh at this;
     
    Comment: Don’t allow it all to get out of hand
     
    By Ian Swanson
     
    FEELINGS are bound to run high over the independence referendum – after all, it’s Scotland’s future that is being decided.
     
    But both sides need to be careful that the debate does not get out of hand.
     
    The attack on a pensioner with a Yes placard in the Royal Mile comes on top of long-running concerns about the level of abuse being hurled around on social media.
     
    The so-called Cybernats have become notorious but independence supporters say they suffer just as much. Even some exchanges in parliament have become a little ill-tempered.
     
    Whatever the referendum result, Scots will need to work together afterwards. When he visited Edinburgh earlier this year, former United States president Bill Clinton knew better than to take sides, however he did urge both camps to behave with respect and weigh up the pros and cons without “tearing the place apart”.

    Who attacked who Mr Swanson?

  32. Albalha says:

    @Gillie
    Frankly I don’t give a flyer what any of them looks like, doubt most voters do either. My focus is on what they say, the depth and stink of their BS, whether AS is thin, JB overweight, as they say in French, je m’en fiche.
    Eyes prize, we can do this, and that will take all sizes, those with an addiction,  those who don’t eat 5 a day, like a day out at Parkhead or Ibrox etc etc.
    Sheesh.

  33. Training Day says:

    Be under no illusion – Salmond is THE major asset that the Yes campaign possesses.  This will become clearer the deeper we go into the campaign.  The MSM know this, hence all their pish and wind about him being ‘divisive’, ‘unpopular’ etc.   

  34. “Someone tell us again, as a commenter did this week, that the First Minister is a handicap to the Yes campaign. We just can’t get enough of hearing that one.”

    Maybe the cunning plan is to try to convince Yes  Scotland and the FM himself that the FM is a handicap, in the hope that the FM will take a back seat in the campaign?

  35. Gillie says:

    Again we see attempts to sway public opinion rather than reflect it.  
     
    Alex Salmond and the SNP government are the two biggest assets in this campaign because a majority of Scots trust both. 

  36. Roger Mexico says:

    It’s a shame the Scottish “leaders” of the London parties weren’t included too, but we suspect that would just have resulted in a high level of “Who?” responses.)

    We do some figures on the question from MORI though, most recently from early May.  Net satisfaction ratings for Scottish leaders (with Don’t Know/Who the **** is that? in brackets)[1] were:

    Alex Salmond +2 (8)

    Johann Lamont +5 (33)

    Ruth Davidson -10 (38)

    Willie Rennie -9 (49)

    Patrick Harvie +11 (51)

    There’s also a pretty graph with the changes over time.

    They also asked about:

    David Cameron -38 (6)

    Nicola Sturgeon (as DFM) +14 (15)

    Alistair Darling (as leader of BT)  -2 (36)

    Given that Cameron’s figure isn’t that dissimilar and the Panelbase poll may have been a bit more pro-SNP than the MORI one, the above ratings for the Scottish leaders should be roughly comparable and illustrate that Scotland seems to love (or at least not despise) all its local leaders more than it does the UK’s.

    Or indeed more than the UK as a whole loves their own.  The ratings from Sunday’s YouGov were Cameron -19 (8), Miliband -39 (14), Clegg -47 (13).
     

    [1]  You should never underestimate how little most ordinary people are interested in politics.  Your own recent poll had 34% of the respondents saying they had no idea who Michael Moore was, despite him being Sec of State for Scotland for the last 3 years (and some of the remainder may have been thinking of the American filmmaker).  Admittedly Moore’s purpose on earth is to make Alistair Darling look exciting and indeed is so dull it’s quite interesting, but it’s still astounding that the SoS is so little known in Scotland.
    Incidentally Moore’s figure of DKs rose to 43% among Lib Dems.

  37. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Don’t you think that Johann Lamont is looking a bit peely-wally.”

    In fairness, she spent the whole summer locked in a basement.

  38. tartanfever says:

    Seems to me that all this talk of our personal opinion’s of the First Minister is not the point.
    Whoever was leader of the SNP at this moment in time would be be continually harassed, vilified, lied about, derided and so on be it Nicola Sturgeon or anyone else.
    If John Swinney was in charge we would end up having exactly the same discussion we’re having now. 
    Therefore I think it’s a complete waste of time to be discussing ‘Is Alex Salmond hindering the Yes campaign ?’

  39. Juteman says:

    The reason the Unionist parties hate AS is because he is a conviction politician, and ordinary folk have a sixth sense that can see that, 
    The Unionist politicians can’t understand someone that isn’t ‘in it’ for self gain. They assume all politicians are like themselves.
     

  40. MajorBloodnok says:

    Tamson says: You’ll need to put those numbers in Roman numerals, Rev…
      
    Ker-ching!

  41. muttley79 says:

    @Juteman
     
    The reason the Unionist parties hate AS is because he is a conviction politician, and ordinary folk have a sixth sense that can see that, 
    The Unionist politicians can’t understand someone that isn’t ’in it’ for self gain. They assume all politicians are like themselves.
     
    This.

  42. Jon D says:

    Anyone wishing to see another pro-indy Conviction politician in action should tune in to Scotland Tonight. Our Nicola should have fun with Johann’s number two, Anus.
    http://news.stv.tv/politics/237628-second-debate-on-independence-referendum-to-be-screened-on-stv/

  43. muttley79 says:

    I have never heard Sarwar actually discuss what he believes in, and what policies he supports.  All he does is drone on about Salmond, and the SNP, in the usual miserable, drab SLAB way.  Therefore, it will be interesting to see if Sarwar actually talks about welfare or not.  I am thinking he will just attack Strugeon.

  44. Kenny Campbell says:

    UK politics today is divisive and polarising…Salmond is genuine and the SNP honestly say they put Scotland first as a whole, people gravitate to that as it makes them feel less likely to be left behind.

  45. Doug Daniel says:

    Piemonteis – “Interestingly enough, I have one friend who was an anti-Salmond, definite No voter a couple of years ago, when one day AS popped into the office where he worked to resolve some constituency matters. After AS took some time to chat with him and his colleagues before seeing the boss, this mate completely changed his opinion of the man. Unfortunately, he is still a staunch No and loyal Labour voter.”
     
    Which just backs up something I’ve been thinking for a while now. Nobody is genuinely against independence because of Alex Salmond. They simply use it as an excuse. “Why are you against independence?” “Urgh, because of that bloody Alex Salmond.” It’s just another of the many excuses people give to hide the true reason for not supporting independence: fear. It also gives them a quick escape route from having to actually think about the referendum.
     
    After all, there also happen to be a large number of Salmond-hating Yes supporters.

  46. scottish_skier says:

    but it’s still astounding that the SoS is so little known in Scotland.Incidentally Moore’s figure of DKs rose to 43% among Lib Dems.
     
    Moore was a nobody who considered the position of SoS for Scotland redundant under devolution because there was no real duties of importance for such a position. He advocated abolishing it.
     
    He then accepted the position when offered it immediately.
     
    Nobody takes role of no significance. Is it really a surprise people haven’t heard of him?

  47. alexicon says:

    “Alex Salmond sharply divides opinion in Scottish voter satisfaction ratings, the latest poll findings show with just over a year to the independence referendum.”
     
    Ah Gardham at his usual bitter and twisted best. No name given, but words are a pure give away.
    The hatred just ouzes out of the man(?). I often wonder why the Herald hired him to boost sales when his track record of gutter writting is so evident to all.
    @Juteman, Putin is the head of (what they class in Russia) the mafia.

  48. Albalha says:

    @DougDaniel
    As someone who is probably averse to all politicians, including AS, it’s surely, from a YES perspective not about hate, but rather a healthy distrust.
    I’m voting YES and am truly excited about what comes next, who knows come an independent Scotland in the 2016 election, I may decide to vote for them, we’ll see.
     

  49. Brian Powell says:

    From the Herald today: “ALEX Salmond has been called on to withdraw remarks in which he allegedly branded David Cameron “anti-Scottish”.
    What A Salmond said: “Let’s see if we can get the pressure on to make sure we pull the Prime Minister into the ring and then let’s see if he can articulate a case against Scotland because I’ll certainly be articulating the case for Scotland.”
    What Alistair Carmichael, the Scottish Liberal Democrat deputy leader said: “It seems even Alex Salmond is prepared to label someone anti-Scottish if they question his independence plans. The First Minister should withdraw his comments.” !
    So Carmichael talked about ‘anti-Scottish’, the paper a couple of sentences up said, Alex Salmond said it!!

  50. BuckieBraes says:

    Bear with me, but I have a copy of a recently published book called Scotland’s Turntable Ferries, by Robert Beale and John Hendy. (It’s a minority interest, but I can thoroughly recommend it to any other enthusiasts.)
     
    Anyway, the foreword has been written by Alex Salmond, which is telling in itself; but even more telling is what comes next. The introduction is penned by none other than John MacLeod, a journalist whose views are at odds with those of AS and the SNP on a range of levels; but this is what he writes:
     
    ‘I have known the First Minister for over quarter of a century. That relationship has been inevitably strained, at times, by our respective trades; as H L Mencken famously put it, the proper relationship of any journalist to any politician is that of a dog to a lamp post. But I have never, on any meeting with the man, found him anything less than straightforward and genial. And there is a depth of love for his country – and for the small things, quiet trades and toiling people of his country – in the First Minister that few have a chance to see.’
     
    This tribute makes a refreshing change from the hackneyed ‘Fat-Nazi-Who-Wants-To-Anoint-Himself-Supreme-Ruler’ rubbish, and is all the more significant given its source.
     
     
     

  51. david says:

    nicola sturgeon versus anus sarwar is like ricky burns taking on me

  52. dee says:

    Our Nicola will kick the Anus butt all over the studio.

  53. dee says:

    Nicola will tie that brainless halfwit Anus up in knots.

  54. Braco says:

    You can respect someone without actually liking them. This is even more important when it comes to a politician.
     
    Liking someone also implies a positive personal experience of them as an individual. Something few voters get of a leader, therefor the modern phenomena of heavy reliance on the media to project a more intimate informal vision of leadership (call me Tony/Dave, I agree with Nick, etc).
     
    Respect, on the other hand, does not require this sort of thing, as it is based more on an individual’s experience of the leaders record.
     
    I would say this is exemplified in Salmond’s case by the way he has been able to avoid the whole sickly, first lady, kids and family ‘Hello Magazine’ type demands of so called ‘modern’ leadership. (Something even the ‘Great dour Iron Chancellor’ (haha) Gordon Brown was unable to do, finally buckling to media pressures prior to ‘becoming’ PM)
     
    Ask yourself, is it more important that the democratic leader of a country is liked by their electorate or respected? In my view it is respect that allows a leader the lee way absolutely necessary to still effectively lead all those that inevitably will politically disagree with them after election.
     
    Also for me respect is very tied up with effective participatory authority, where as liking some one does not necessarily endow them with any personal authority or influence over me.
     
    I always see Salmond (and try to explain him to others) in terms of respect rather than the more ‘marmite’ quality of like/dislike (or maybe I am just splitting hairs, as I do most certainly respect the guy and his political record).

  55. dee says:

    Nicola on STV debate later on tonight.

  56. Morag says:

    Andy in tennis match later tonight….

  57. Andy-B says:

    This poll just backs up what hopefully most Scots know, that Alex Salmond, is the right man for the job, and that after independence, if elected he will continue to do whats right for Scots and Scotland
     
    Labour are too busy spewing hatred of wee Eck that theyve lost direction of what really matters, and thats the people of Scotland, no wonder the GMB has pulled the plug on most of their funding

  58. david says:

    cmon andy, i shook hands with him at the dunblane day last year, still not washed it

  59. Ruairidh says:

    Talking about assets and liabilities, going by her last performance against Michael Moore I don’t think labour should be allowed to put Anas up against Nicola it will be a decimation and even for a Nat like me painful to watch. I reckon she will tear Anas a new Anus.

  60. david says:

    anus a new anus u surely mean

  61. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “will tear Anas a new Anus”

    Folks, can we have a moratorium on “Anas = anus” stuff, please? It makes me wince, and y’know, it’s not all THAT far away from being a bit racist.

  62. HandandShrimp says:

    But Alex does divide opinion….it just happens that it is the Labour voters that are divided.

  63. ` says:

    Ruairidh
    He will have spent all day with his Westminster coaches, but they will not help much as being the motor mouth that he is,he will soon lose the plot when cornered. Take away his ability to attack the SNP and having to actually talk about  subject will be his downfall.
    Below the surface, he has little knowledge when pushed. He does not have the age old commitment that Nicola has. I expect him to make himself look foolish.
    In the words of some old labour MP, give him a doing Nicola .

  64. McNic says:

    I think Our Nicola might be ripping Anus a whole new-one tonight, my money says he throws a spoilt-kid tantrum half way through, from which he wont be able to recover.
    JoLa and JaBa are actually better than this wee tit.

    Sorry about the reference to you know what

  65. Shinty says:

    McNic,
    Guess you missed the memo?

  66. HandandShrimp says:

    Sarwar sticks to the party line like a limpet so God only knows what will happen if he has to improvise in this debate.
     
    I would imagine he will steer of accusing the Scottish Government being an undemocratic dictatorship in a head to head though. It is easy making that sort of comment in Westminster pandering to the prejudices of the London press but a different matter trying it out on Scottish soil.
     
    Agree on the name thing, after the dictatorship faux pas I think Tube suffices. 

  67. Rod Mac says:

    Anus will do what all these die hard Unionists do , shout loudly deny everything and refuse point blsank to admit to anything.
    He will denounce everything as a lie and personalise it.
    John Mackay or rhona will have to be strong and on that Ido not hold out much hope.
    Bring on Bernard I say.

  68. McNic says:

    Actually that was the restrained version, but I’ve added an apology.

  69. Rod Mac says:

    Slightly O/T Is Bernard Ponsonby related to the Ponsonby chap that writes for Newsnet?

  70. Thepnr says:

    Well tonight will be my first opportunity to watch a debate through my newly opened eyes. Looking forward to it. 

  71. HandandShrimp says:

    JoLa and JaBa are actually better than this wee tit.
     
    McNic
     
    Sadly they really aren’t. JaBa is a smoother lier but her facts are so easily proved false afterwards that it counts for little. JoLa is shocking if she has to think on the hoof. Her car crash interview before the summer break was an object lesson in crashing cars. Darling or even Brown would prove a tougher challenge but Sarwar ..Meh

  72. Teechur says:

    Bit hacked off that the assault on an 80 year old Yes supporter mentioned above has become something different by the time STV reported it: http://m.stv.tv/news/edinburgh/238455-gospel-singer-assaulted-by-woman-as-he-sang-hymns-on-the-royal-mile/

  73. pmcrek says:

    Just on the Alex Salmond thing coming into a guys office, during the recession before last there was a round of redundancies in our office. After management contacted Scottish Enterprise, Nicola Sturgeon turned up and did everything she could to save as many jobs as possible.
     
    Its the first time any of us had ever experienced an elected politician in Government actually giving a toss about people. Still a Green voter though :)

  74. Rod Mac says:

    Just listening to Channel4 News a great piece about the British Clout.
    A Russian official was heard to say that Britain is a small island of no importance that nobody takes seriously …oh dear  , some clout we are going to miss huh

  75. cearc says:

    Rod  mac
    That would quote would make a good campaign poster.
    I nearly choked on my ginger beer when i read it.

  76. sneddon says:

    Sorry folks but the slogan on the placard of the Yes campaigner thatvwas attacked  ”Time to get rid of the scourge of the Normans. Sign up to the Yes side”.
     
    Is it me? or is that a bit missing the point about independence as well as a lack of knowledge of history viz a viz the Normans in Scotland.  Unless it’s a satire I just don’t get it .  Or is the gentleman considerably older than 80 :)  Nevertheless a despicable attack I hope they find the bampot that did.

  77. gordoz says:

    Met Alex Salmond at a Scotland game with my family; a real gent. Sharp politician ? absolutely, statesman? lets hope so after 2014 (he is the right man for the job and the others can’t stand the fact that they have no one to match.

    Sarwar is no mug, but he is British Labour through & through and cant vary from a limited dull union message. Have no doubt the Deputy First Minister will rise above usual union mantra of doom & scare.

  78. James Morton says:

    Just recently been on twitter – some of the usual suspects are indulging in their pet hobby and slagging Salmond off. So great is their hate they actually think this poll is intended to hide how popular the Scottish party leaders are. Some people truly are immune to reality.

  79. Shinty says:

    Slightly O/T Is Bernard Ponsonby related to the Ponsonby chap that writes for Newsnet?
    Often wondered about that myself. Anyone?

  80. call me dave says:

    Ruthie reshuffles her pack:
    Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson has reshuffled her front bench team, marking a return from the back benches for her leadership rival Murdo Fraser.
    Mr Fraser was named the party’s enterprise, energy and tourism spokesman. Margaret Mitchell, another defeated rival, took on justice
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-23974511

  81. molly says:

    Actually Gordoz was thinking something similar today, switching between WOS AND FMQs. First question up, I heard the voice ,noted the tone, heard the bitterness,saw the pointy figure ,checked I was no longer at school and switched off, never got to hear Alex Salmond.
    A little self awareness and dignity is a good thing to have-Johann Lamont you possess neither.

  82. Krackerman says:

    I went round to see my old maw on the way home tonight to find her livid with A.S. The cause was that apparently “That Salmond is going to pass a law to let murderers, rapists and pedo’s out of jail early! Ah’ll no vote for him again!”
    After a wee bit of questioning and calming her down it seems either the BBC or STV was running some news item to that effect with some stock footage of A.S. walking down the street – presumably to leave no-one in doubt who the target of the attack was. I asked her – “did you see him on TV utter the words from his own mouth? No – then it’s a lie”…
    But does anyone know what this IS about?
     

  83. gordo says:

    Ballie & Gray attempt at stealing morale high ground on Bedroom Tax in DRecord absolutely pathetic. They had their chance to join in joint SNP motion and opted out because went against westminster strategies. cant see how Labour dont reralise they are hopeless.

  84. Krackerman says:

    Ahhh found it – he’s scrapping it – she misheard the news bulletin. Well done Alex!

  85. bunter says:

    Would be good  if Nicola hit Sarwar with the what do you prefer, a Tory Gov running Scotland from Westminster or a Labour one in an indy Scotland, oh and of course, pull him up about Holyrood not  being a democratic place would be nice too.

  86. Tamson says:

    @Shinty – there’s also a Brian Ponsonby at BBC Scotland – I believe he’s related to Bernard. One of the more professional journalists at BBCS.
     
    No idea whether there’s a connection to the Newsnet one.
     
    http://journalisted.com/brian-ponsonby?allarticles=yes

  87. molly says:

    That should have been pointy finger,
    Krackerman reform of early release ,I think

  88. macdoc says:

    Krackerman
    It’s the exact opposite of what your mum thought. 
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-government-scrap-automatic-early-2247821

  89. Murray McCallum says:

    Newsnight Scotland tweet 1 hour ago:
    “Wide-ranging & revealing interview with Johann Lamont. Bedroom Tax, n-weapons & Falkirk. Raymond Buchanan’s last #newsnicht, 11pm BBC2″

  90. HandandShrimp says:

    Murray
     
    I don’t think my system could take another meander into the windmills of Johann’s mind.

  91. Murray McCallum says:

    HandandShrimp
    Aye. Nil by mouth for at least 3 hours before watching I reckon.
    Newsnight also say: “Scottish Labour’s leader on how she voted in the ’79 referendum; and her role if Scotland became independent”
    Her role?!??

  92. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    A CHALLENGE to the WINGS Community
    First, on Assets and Liabilities:Informed and inspired YES indiduals helping others to understand the certain benefits of independence can each be a great asset to the YES campaign.
    Second, the background to the Challenge:
    Just completed my first solo door-to-door effort in my neighbourhood; 15 doors chapped, 7 conversations, and all but one having positive impact! My goal is to constructively engage with each and every person in my area at least with all those who are open to discuss and examine the issue of independence: ~ 500 people in my neighbourhood
    The CHALLENGE*:
    Commit to going door-to-door in your communitity over the coming year.
    You won’t regret it!
    *Suggestions and modifications to the challenge welcome.

  93. DMyers says:

    call me dave says: Ruthie reshuffles her pack.
     
    Moving the deckchairs on the Titanic?

  94. Murray McCallum says:

    Actually I have a role for Johann Lamont in an independent Scotland – Scottish Ambassador to Bouvet Island http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouvet_Island

  95. Krackerman says:

    Cheers Madoc and Molly – I phoned her and calmed her down – A.S. is now her number 1 favourite again :)

  96. @Murray McCallum 
     
    Antarctica is a pristine environment where no deliberate contamination is allowed.

  97. Krackerman says:

    Interesting fact CH – there are no Walruses in the Antarctic……  Well at least until JL arrives that is…

  98. call me dave says:

    DMyers says:
    You are correct they are just going through the motions re: Mr McCletchie.
    I see Lamont has returned, been on tv a lot and on later tonight too.
    Admits Falkirk has damaged the Labour Party in Scotland. Can’t wait to hear what she says.  Aye right.
    (Murray: Tennis too tense! …. but going back catch 3rd set) 

  99. Ellie says:

    I know it’s off topic but I thought I was going to be sick when I saw this:
    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-campaigner-80-attacked-1-3077094
    Make sure you read the comments below; very illuminating. 

  100. ianbrotherhood says:

    Here’s a wee musical tribute to mark the return of Johann. It’s a young Paul Young with some pals – squeezed so hard into leather breeks that they’ve started hallucinating – at Prestwick Airport, in 1983.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEn6amCRQfI

  101. call me dave says:

    Comment from another site:
     
    Panelbase have issued a response to their critics, while accepting that no pollster may have the right methodology to test a referendum decision.panelbase.com/…/…Meanwhile, I’m told that TNS-BMRB are having internal discussions to decide whether they need to make changes to their methodology.That’s positive thinking from both pollsters. Sadly, others seem content to carry on as if their methodology requires no examination.

  102. ianbrotherhood says:

    Cor blimey – Paul Young’s Greatest Hits could be devoted to Johann Lamont: Every Time You Go Away…Love of the Common People…Don’t Dream It’s Over…etc.

  103. Krackerman says:

    Wee O.T. side subject here – I’ve been seeing a few fire stations now flying the Union Jack. I though the fire service was a Scottish service separate from the English one – much like the NHS… I don’t recall them flying the UJ before (correct if I’m wrong) and as a Scottish civil service I can’t think why they would..? 
    Am I being paranoid or are they getting politicised?
    It’s a powerful message – everyone respects (and rightfully so) the fire brigade – and to fly the UJ makes a mental link that the fire service is a benefit of the union!!!
    Or am I just being overly sensitive….
    Although seeing the flag did make me feel odd… I remember as a child watching the UJ’s fly over Port Stanley and being proud…. now it just jars…. doesn’t feel right…. do you know what I mean?

  104. call me dave says:

    There was a stooshie previous to this where logo had to be changed.
    See link.
     
    http://news.stv.tv/north/202679-fire-chiefs-remove-offensive-saltire-from-engines-after-complaints/

  105. Morag says:

    I’ve had better nights with the toothache.

  106. Seasick Dave says:

    Krackerman
     
    I noticed Stirling had one last week and did wonder about it. No Scottish flag to be seen.

  107. ` says:

    A year from now there will be plenty Saltires FLYING!!

  108. ianbrotherhood says:

    If No Scotland want to try and dispel their doom-laden image, they could do worse than adopting this Jack Johnson song as an anthem. (No, I’ve never heard of him either, but it’s a happy wee tune and has had over 4 million views.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfoqELZWcp8

  109. Quick the suns oot says:

    @Krackerman
    Just saw your post after I posted on the last thread about flags. Lots of saltires in Edinburgh at the mo :)

  110. muttley79 says:

    @Krackerman
     
    I went round to see my old maw on the way home tonight to find her livid with A.S. The cause was that apparently “That Salmond is going to pass a law to let murderers, rapists and pedo’s out of jail early! Ah’ll no vote for him again!”
    After a wee bit of questioning and calming her down it seems either the BBC or STV was running some news item to that effect with some stock footage of A.S. walking down the street – presumably to leave no-one in doubt who the target of the attack was. I asked her – “did you see him on TV utter the words from his own mouth? No – then it’s a lie”…
    But does anyone know what this IS about?
     
    Early release for prisoners convicted of serious crimes is being abolished by the Scottish Government.
     

  111. Monty says:

    O/T
    Audio of Mr Darling’s latest utterances here if anyone interested….
    http://icas.org.uk/News/AlistairDarling_September2013/

  112. call me dave says:
    5 September, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    There was a stooshie previous to this where logo had to be changed.
     
    where else on planet earth are folks offended by the sight of their national flag? Where else would authorities agree to remove it because they complained?
     
    This story was a cringe too far.

  113. ianbrotherhood says:

    Hmmm…another contender for the No Scotland anthem…chirpy and cheery…not hard to imagine Willie, Ruth and Johann giving it big licks to this, with Blair McD doing the mix:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIWxXfbNpmU

  114. muttley79 says:

    Sarwar is dire, he takes negativity to another level.  The guy is so scared of losing his privileges, and career in London.

  115. Early release for prisoners convicted of serious crimes is being abolished by the Scottish Government.
     
    i believe is automatic early release that is being abolished (for those convicted of serious offences)
    The difference will be that those prisoners will have to be assessed by the probations panel to determine if they are indeed no longer a threat to society. They could still be erased early if they meet the criteria.

  116. “They could still be erased early if they meet the criteria.” 
    Freudian slip.
     
    “They could still be released early if they meet the criteria.” 

  117. ianbrotherhood says:

    Gordon Bennett!
     
    There was me, quite happily scrolling through Youtube results for ‘Better Together’, finding cheery videos, and then, on ‘Page 5 of about 8,000,000 results’, look who crops up! (and it’s been viewed 726 times):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB6uvctzZxk
     
    Back to life…back to reality…’

  118. muttley79 says:

    Sarwar says the Bedroom Tax will be abolished by Labour.  Who knew?

  119. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Mutley79 – Not sure who knew, not even him. Lets see how he justifies that bombshell.

  120. The_Duke says:

    @muttley
     
    Begs the question why didnt his boss say that at PMQ the other day?

  121. Restlessnative says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB6uvctzZxk
     
    I just can’t.its half an hour of my life I’ll never get back!!

  122. saporian says:

    He lied.

  123. macdoc says:

    Nicola wiping the floor with Anas so far. What a horrible slimy character he is. 
     
    This whole debate is a joke, not the one tonight but in general. Its so fu***** obvious Scotland would be far better off as an independent nation both economically , socially but more importantly in confidence. The No campaign really are snake oil salesmen. Their is no adjective in the english language to express the contempt I feel for these British Nationalist politicians masquerading as Scottish patriots. 

  124. patronsaintofcats says:

    @muttley79 – this will come as a shock to Joann Lamont and her boss Ed Milliband.

  125. Jimbo says:

    “Sarwar says the Bedroom Tax will be abolished by Labour.  Who knew?”
     
    Sarwar said that a Labour government would never have introduced it. Sarwar seems content to stand there and lie to his back teeth.

  126. call me dave says:

    Labour reveals £50million plan to beat the hated Bedroom Tax and keep poor Scots in their homes
    5 Sep 2013 07:48

    UNDER a new Member’s Bill put forward by Jackie Baillie, bedroom tax evictions would be banned.
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/labour-reveals-50million-plan-beat-2252502
    —————————————————————————
    ****photo alert!!!!
    Lots of backup cases..(genuine folk used as cannon fodder)
    Labour good at this kind of tactic.. 
    The comments section generally indicate that no-one is impressed with Jackie.
    Good old daily record!
     

  127. muttley79 says:

    Sarwar dodging whether the abolition of the Bedroom Tax will be in British Labour’s manifesto for the 2015 general election. 

  128. Tamson says:

    @jumbo: if Sarwar actually said that, time for the Good Rev to run another “Anas Sarwar is a liar” article!

  129. ewen says:

    Just watched lament on newsnicht and now fuming at Simon Pia. Newsnight let her off easy and then got labour apparatchiks Pia to gloss over lament’s inadequacies.

  130. muttley79 says:

    Oh why word!  Sarwar was truly appalling, that was like watching a train crash.

  131. AlexMci says:

    I wonder how the studio guests will big up Anas contribution to that. They will say its pretty even there. Just watch I bet they try and spin it that Anas done well with this or that. Pah

  132. Jeannie says:

    OMG – Nicola has just removed the goolies from Anas Sarwar.  Hope his wife’s got a needle and thread ready to sew them back on.  What a car crash.

  133. Edulis says:

    Oh dear! oh dear! oh dear! What a disaster sarwar is. If his father ios watching this in the Punjab he will be immediately want a cold shower. All Anus could dop was jabber. He never answered a single question put by Nicola. What a fake!

  134. Tom Duffin says:

    Holy merd,
    Scotland Tonight debate……lively or what?
    Nicola is awseome

  135. bunter says:

    I think STV and their panel are at it if they dont call that F* ing idiot for what he is. What a shambles Sarwar is and thank F**K everyone now sees it.

  136. molly says:

    Lets leave the Pandas out of it-quote of the week

  137. AlexMci says:

    Wow just wow, told you

  138. Andrew Morton says:

    Just watched the ‘debate’. Sarwar’s tactics were the equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting, “La, la, la, la, la . . .”.  He didn’t seem to make any attempt to even answer any questions. In fact Nicola Sturgeon seemed completely nonplussed by his antics, so to that extent they worked.
    However, I can’t believe that any serious voter would take him seriously.

  139. AlexMci says:

    Yeah Bernard it was a draw, fucking outrageous. 

  140. bunter says:

    Yeah STV are arses too and noticable that the only tweets were from politicos. The panel were a disgrace. Any other broadcasters?

  141. eva says:

    She answered the questions and stuck to the facts; he did neither. Simples.
     

  142. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    Well well if I had a woman like Nicola S in my life I would be doin the shoppin, washin the dishes and hooverin every day. Its no wonder that the SNP team score so highly.

  143. macdoc says:

    I can’t believe the pundits are calling it 50-50. Trying to appear neutral. Anas was shockingly bad. Just nonsense to say they were as bad as each other. I really despise Anas but I will give him credit for getting in his some would say cheeky digs. Its like Nicola going on about the McCrone report when asked a question about minimum wage. Totally diversion tactics but thats all he has. 

  144. twenty14 says:

    Rev – Sorry to be o/t
    Well _ just watched the Big Debate with Surgeon and Sanwar  and then the views of the Studio pundits
    What a load of utter pish
    I asked my non political Wife ( honest ) what she thought of it all and her reply was
    ” Sanwar was a wishy-washy and didn’t answer anything and what the commentators ( pundits ) said afterwards didn’t make any sense
    Think this is what most of the ” undecided ” will make of this

  145. Jimbo says:

    John Mackay was disgraceful as a referee. He completely lost control where Sarwar was concerned.
     
    In the second half of the programme he should have reminded Sarwar that he was there to answer questions from Nicola – not go on long, diversionary rants. Mackay should have prompted him to either answer or shut up.
     
    Can’t wait to see tomorrow’s headlines: Labour to scrap the bedroom tax 
     
    The bedroom tax – a tax Labour would never have introduced – Nicola missed a trick with that blooper from Sarwar.

  146. eva says:

    @Jimbo – she let him away with that deliberately so he wouldn’t have the opportunity to correct himself :-)
     

  147. Thepnr says:

    Holy shit! This was the most pathetic diplay by a politician i have ever witnessed. Sarwar was simply pathetic, no defense, no arguments and no SCRUPLES.
     
    Then the pundits call it adraw, how laughable is that. Lets be rid of the lot them. They make me SICK. I really mean that, pathetic.

  148. twenty14 says:

    sorry – just realised I wasn’t o/t – way to go Nicky
     

  149. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ saporian – Yes he did and not only that he burbled incessantly with outrageous comments designed to throw Nicola S off track. Yes he lied and lets see what the MSM make of abolition of Bedroom Tax. Thats going to be a stunner.

  150. Jimbo says:

    Just to remove any ambiguity, Nicola should have got him to repeat it, Eva.

  151. Training Day says:

    Let Sarwar’s evasion and mendacity speak for itself. Labour to abolish the bedroom tax, says he. Milliband’s spin doctors will be livid.

  152. eva says:

    @ Jimbo – he has done the damage live on air and been recorded for posterity so it seems pretty clear now, like all Labour policies ;-)

  153. bunter says:

    As they say, in the end, it will all come down to who you trust, and I would like to thank Anus for making it clear as to what a NO vote will mean.

  154. Fairliered says:

    That so called debate was ruined by incompetent chairing from John Mackay. The only things we learned were that Anas Sarwar is an ignorant lying bastard. But I knew that already.

  155. Tinyzeitgeist says:

    Project fear really exposed itself tonight on both STV and the bbc. It really was car crash political debate. Neither of these MSM ‘heavyweights’ or the labour party did themselves any favours tonight. Dire.

  156. dee says:

    Anus and Lamont. How can genuine Labour voters stand by these two bumbling idiots.  I mean, your average Labour voters intelligence must be similar to a nationalists intelligence, so why cant they see and hear what we see and hear from these two. I just cant get my head round why they continue to support these two fools. They have an alternative in Labour for Independence, so why not put all their energy into supporting them.  As for STV, can they be serious, 50-50, Nicola was the only one in the studio to come out with any credibility

  157. Doug Daniel says:

    Just remember folks, Better Together said Anas Sarwar would be presenting the positive case for the union tonight. That car crash was the positive case for the union.

  158. The Man in the Jar says:

    I have just watched Scotland Tonight (recorded) I agree that the panel calling it a draw is a load of crap and the punters will know that. What is the immediate thing that Joe public is going to take away from it? I think it is obvious that Sarwar didn’t have a single answer for one of Nicolas questions it was just bluster and rhetoric. He even produced a copy of the farcical “Top Secret SNP document” Yawn! Just like the UK Labour have got sweet FA for Scotland never mind the rest of the UK. Who the hell votes for these pathetic clowns?

  159. dee says:

    Nicola should not lower herself to being in the same building as that out and out fruitcake Anus ever again.  He was an insult to her intelligence.

  160. twenty14 says:

    Fairliered says:
    5 September, 2013 at 11:51 pm

    That so called debate was ruined by incompetent chairing from John Mackay. The only things we learned were that Anas Sarwar is an ignorant lying bastard. But I knew that already
    That’s a totally, abhorrent insult to Folk with no parents :)

  161. muttley79 says:

    The idea that Sarwar was the equal of Sturgeon in the debate was absolute dung by Mackay and Ponsonby.  What are they thinking about?  Sarwar never even attempted to answer any questions.   

  162. eva says:

    Labour Party website is strangely silent on the abolition of the bedroom tax announced tonight.

  163. Chic McGregor says:

    Nicola did ask for clarification on the Bedroom Tax. 3? 4? times whether it would be in the Labour manifesto?  Sarwar, as he had done all night, ignored the question.
     
    SLAB need to produce more than script fixated sock-puppets if they are going to win any of these debates.  
     
    Having said that, any participant with the ability to actually think for themselves would find defending a union run from the pile of corrupta in London an ask beyond fullfilment.
     
     

  164. Jimbo says:

    I wonder, what Lamont will have to say to the press about it tomorrow, Eva? I wonder, what will she have to say to Sarwar tonight? I bet his ‘phone is red hot right now. JoLa and Milly will be giving him pelters.
     
    I wonder, what will the Tories in Westminster make of it? Cameron pressed Miliband for an answer on it several times in the House of Commons and couldn’t get him to give a reply. Sarwar’s claim that Labour will abolish it has put Miliband in an embarrassing and awkward situation. Cameron will be demanding clarification. This is gonna be a bit like Wendy’s ‘Bring it on’.

  165. jim mitchell says:

    I’m confused now, if as we were told tonight, Labour are going to get rid of the bedroom tax, why all the guff today about action from the Scottish Government on this, unless that’s just there way of letting us know that they really don’t think they are going to win the next general election, pity they didn’t think to tell Mr Sarwar.

  166. Chic McGregor says:

    LQ.  Still think Ponsonby is impartial?

  167. eva says:

    See STV website now for confirmation of what Anas Sarwar said about how Labour would not introduce the bedroom tax (?) and if they were in government tomorrow they would abolish it :-)

  168. Tinyzeitgeist says:

    I liked the “dodgy dossier” with top secret plastered over the front that anas was waving about. Reminds me of a certain T Blair and his neoliberal cronies in 2003. Liars.

  169. eva says:

    @ Jimbo – I would love to be a fly on JoLa’s wall when Ed phones her :-)

  170. fordie says:

    O/T but in real time. Raymond Buchanan saying farewell on Newsnicht. Interview with JoNo with her new blonde highlights all over :) Best interview I’ve ever seen him do (this is relatively speaking). What does that tell us?  Even so, he gave up with the brick wall that is JoNo. Her std. precursor to all comments  ‘Can I tell you’. Please don’t. She looks wabbit.
    ‘We took action in Falkirk’.  I live in Falkirk and this is crap, well before the Union issue. I’ve had no representation  in Westminster for a very long time – well before our “MP” Joyce stood down from the Labour Party. I make this point as a matter of principle rather than for any other reason. Why Joyce was voted in post-Dennis C is utterly bewildering (monkey, red rosette?) given the absolute level of independent support for Dennis. Do any Bairns want to comment. Only thing I (rarely) got from Joyce was an email about something that interested him (ie. that improved his CV).
    From JoNo. “I don’t support nuclear weapons”. Instant caveat from her that this is something the international community needs to address. Scotland is TW, TP, TS to do so then and, on that premise, has no right to refuse, within the UK, to have nuclear weapons within driving distance of its most populous centre. She tells us that NW is not to be used as a ‘bargaining chip”? No bargain is being offered. To be removed post-Indy.
    Simon Pia comments utterly uncommentable.  Blah, AS, blah, Falkirk, blah Mililband, blah oil, blah, spend it all in the UK and not on young folks and elders in Scotland. Cause we’re all socialists. Ha, ha.
    Same shite, different day.
     
     
     
     

  171. gordoz says:

    Doug Daniel says:
    5 September, 2013 at 11:55 pm

    Just remember folks, Better Together said Anas Sarwar would be presenting the positive case for the union tonight. That car crash was the positive case for the union.
    Agree with whats been said elsewhere (pundits – A draw ?? ….. really?)
    Correct me if Im wrong; just watched it again did Sarwar answer a single question second half ? He  just repeated Labour mantra …. bad SNP ….. move money scrap tax … blah,blah,blah. Constant incoherent soundbiting after questions from Sarwar …. he debated like he was at school. Lets have him back for sure !!!!
    One Point of note on womans issues regarding the ref and debating.
    YES presenting confident positive Woman (twice)
    No campaign (any women who can debate ???, where are their women )

  172. Training Day says:

    @Chic

    Agreed, Ponsonby did himself no favours tonight. At the end he looked petulant.

    Sarwar is a gift to us. More power to his elbow.

  173. Jimbo says:

    Aye, Eva. It’ll be like wee Burnie getting a sherrickin’ from Rab C.

  174. Stuart Black says:

    Folks, can we have a moratorium on “Anas = anus” stuff, please? It makes me wince, and y’know, it’s not all THAT far away from being a bit racist.
     
    Thanks Rev Stu, makes me wince as well, similar to Zanu-Labour or Liebour on the Graun. Childish and unproductive – though that’s not always bad. ;)

  175. Firestarter says:

    Anas is going to need a couple of jotters down the back of his trousers as he sits outside the “heidie’s” office in the morning. If Labour leadership agree with him tomorrow, and as a result effectively turn it into a policy statement (now THAT would be a first) ………, Ed is right out there on the end of the branch. If Labour leadership DONT agree, Anas has just been outed as a public, on-air, reported, demonstrated liar! Win-win :)
    Oh, and having the audacity to bring out that document with the childishly doctored “top secret” stamp on the front? well, just ………  hahahahahahaha :)
    Any raisins left, Macart??

  176. The Man in the Jar says:

    Sarwars bedroom tax lie and I assume that is what it was is going to grow arms and legs. The twistings and turnings over the next few days both in Westminster and the Scottish MSM will be painful to watch. Like Eric Morecambe used to say “Get out of that without moving!”

  177. Edulis says:

    Of course he is not impartial. He is a Lib Dem former candidate. I think his view was a calculation on the part of the producers. Either that or he was too embarrassed to say the Anus was rubbish.

  178. Bubbles says:

    STV -I agree with everyone here sayin’ it was a car crash, no doubt about it. I’m not too upset with the pundits 50-50 result though. We need to remember that STV is a commercial operation. This is surely their way of building up the next debate and keeping interest alive. 
     
    BBC – This was much worse IMO. To have only one commenter after the wee guy lament was disgraceful! Where was the analysis? Analysis that we are all legally obliged to be paying for! Disgraceful!
     
    Still, Yes won tonight :)

  179. Jamie Arriere says:

    Exit Raymond Buchanan stage left from BBC
    Enter Peter McMahon new political editor at ITV Border
     
    One unionist out, one in…..

  180. Stuart Black says:

    TMITJ, howzitgaun?
    Yes, good point, as I said to my wife during the debate, this commitment – which Mr Sarwar does not have the authority to make – will cause an absolute shitstorm, at least if the media decide to pursue it… oh, wait….

  181. fordie says:

    @ Archie [not Erchie]
    Oo-err Archie.

  182. Morag says:

    It’s rather unfortunate that Sarwar snr. chose that name for his son and heir.  But even so, yous’ve been telt.  Several times.
     
    Stu is going to have to run a global search-and-replace on this thread.
     
    Personally, I’m trying to work the term “canard” into this.  I feel it’s wittier, if it can be accomplished elegantly.

  183. Jimbo says:

    STV News reporting it as fact (thanks, Eva):
     
    A future Labour government will abolish the “bedroom tax”, a senior party figure has confirmed.
     
    http://news.stv.tv/politics/238598-anas-sarwar-future-labour-government-will-abolish-bedroom-tax/

  184. Lochside says:

    If any foreign outsider was watching this ‘debate’ then they would have been presented with the Referendum debacle in ugly microcosm: Sturgeon presenting a principled case for Scottish democracy and the on going preservation of our welfare state versus a slavering speak your weight machine masquerading as a politician. Sawar with his glazed eyes looked like the Mancunian Candidate mouthing BT bullshit interspersed with personal sleights on Sturgeon. Referee John Mackay, old Glasgow Uni Labour hack, inexplicably mute while Sarwar resolutely refused to answer a single question put to him, instead raving about Bedroom Taxes like a broken record. Meanwhile, the ‘political’ commentators completed this Stepford Wives tableau with their risible predictable ‘Stairheid rammy’ allusions to this one sided charade as being a ‘draw’. The predictability of this shit is so depressing: the ongoing collusion between the parties of the British State and the msm to belittle the entire struggle for our democracy to a verbal punch and judy show.  Any more of this and the don’t knows will increasingly become the don’t cares.

  185. gordoz says:

    Labour do only seem able to the ‘politik mantra’ though. Reluctant even to answer basic questions on subjects they should have some sort of answers to. Too much deflection and garble ending in making up policy as they go along and telling stories. Doubt even Labour supporters would be happy with Sarwar floundering display.

  186. Bill C says:

    Another two nails in the unionist coffin tonight.  Sarwar and Lamont exposed for the charlatans that they are – no polices, no commitment and no honesty. 

  187. Firestarter says:

    @Morag
     
    I’ll say one thing …….. its f “canard” to believe anything Anas comes out with? :)

  188. Jeannie says:

    @morag
     
    canard ent fans of Anas really feel the same about him after tonight’s performance?

  189. eva says:

    @ Jimbo – an unmitigated and at this point in the campaign perhaps also an invaluable pleasure :-)

  190. Thepnr says:

    All politicians have a degree in waffleing, this is the first thing they are taught after joining the party.
     
    The number one rule is never ever answer a straight YES/NO question just in case you give the wrong answer.
     
    WTF are they going to do when they visit the polling station and have to tick a box!!

  191. Jeannie says:

    Oh, and will Labour be repealing the bedroom tax for both private and public rented sector?  Watch the cost of private rents in London go back through the roof. 

  192. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Stuart Black
    Fine man fine!
    As you say “if” the media pick it up. I think that they will if Cameron pounces on this as a stick to beat Mr. Ed with. Once the UK MSM run with it what can the Scottish excuse for one do?
    I hope you are going to Edinburgh on 21st. I am having a scaled down replica of my jar made especially for the event.
    Like the “other” Alex once wisely said. “Remember this boys and girls. When freedom comes around. Don’t pish in the water supply!”

  193. Training Day says:

    MSM/BT will attempt to reduce the debate to the kind of inertia we saw tonight.

    But we have one firm commitment – Labour will abolish the bedroom tax. I look forward to Ed Milliband confirming this.

  194. Braco says:

    Morag,
    I canard ly believe a word that Anas Sarwar utters.

  195. Stuart Black says:

    For the record, I thought Ponsonby was shocking in his review of the first half of the debate, and John McKay was reasonable in the first part, but absolutely posted missing in the second half, you could not make out what Nicola was saying for Sarwar’s constant interruptions (think Douglas Alexander in that shameful Question Time that Dimbleby not only allowed DAs constant interruptions, but actually compounded them at the end by repeating the question/accusation. Impartial BBC? Aye right).

  196. Stuart Black says:

    Like the “other” Alex once wisely said. “Remember this boys and girls. When freedom comes around. Don’t pish in the water supply!”
    You know, it’s a pretty fair basis for a decent society, along with his other maxim, “don’t shoot bullets”.
     
    Love to be in Embra for the 21st, but will probably be in Norway, certainly be there in spirit, best to you and yer dug….
     

  197. Purr says:

    O/T
    The BBC are in the process of selecting an audience for a Scottish Independence Special to be hosted by kirsty Wark on the Union Bridge in Coldsream on 17th September if anyone is interested.
    I imagine normal BBC criteria will apply

  198. Stuart Black says:

    “hosted by kirsty Wark on the Union”
    Brrrr…
     

  199. Jon D says:

    Jacqueline Baillie’s best mate on the Bedroom Tax, Mike Dailly (Govan Law Centre)
    “Anas Sarwar made Scotland Proud tonight”
    https://twitter.com/mikedailly
    How heavily medicated are these guys?

  200. The Man in the Jar says:

    Stuart Black. Sorry to hear you wont be in Embra on 21st. Never mind will catch up at the big party next year!

  201. Firestarter says:

    For me, tonight, the best part was Nicola’s parting killer blow compliment to Anas …….. I’ve known you for some time now, and I think you are a genuinely nice guy, who probably came into politics for all the right reasons (I paraphrase) .. BUT ……….. !!! LOL ;)

  202. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Jon D
    Mike Dailly and his twitter blitherings are something else. He must be “on” something. I don’t know about the medication thing but it is the season for magic mushrooms just now.

  203. Doug Daniel says:

    Morag – “Personally, I’m trying to work the term “canard” into this.  I feel it’s wittier, if it can be accomplished elegantly.”
     
    I’m trying too, but it’s fu-canard.

  204. Thepnr says:

    Jon D says:
    Jacqueline Baillie’s best mate on the Bedroom Tax, Mike Dailly (Govan Law Centre)
     
    Hope the Govan Law Centre has the shutters down.

  205. Albert Herring says:

    @TMITJ, DD
    Aye, and it’s fu-canard finding magic mushrooms in Elder park unless you’re up really really early.

  206. Chic McGregor says:

    Kirsty Wark?  There’s an unbiased choice!

  207. Purr says:

    No Prizes in guessing what the criteria will be to get a place in the audience,
    you can ask questions as long as they are the correct ones though.
    I think Kirsty is introducing it with a white sheet over her head saying “WOOOOOOOOOOOO

  208. Chic McGregor says:

    All together now:

    Who’s Sarwar now
    Who’s Sarwar now
    Whose heart is achin’ for breakin’ each vow
    Who’s sad and blue, who’s cryin’ too
    Just like I cried over you

    Right to the end
    Just like a friend
    I tried to warn you somehow
    You had your way
    Now you must pay
    I’m glad that you’re Sarwar now

  209. Purr says:

    Hi Ed my Friend 
    is it the end
    I didn’t mean to say it like that
    Nicola got it out of me somehow
    I wont do it again If you’ll still be my friend
    I don’t want to be sorry now
     

  210. Eva says:

    Now we know that Labour will repeal the bedroom tax, is it safe to assume (a) that all Labour controlled authorities will outlaw evictions for arrears arising thru the current imposition of the tax and(b) when Labour are back in control at Westminster all arrears accrued as the result of the tax will be written off?

  211. Marker Post says:

    That was quite possibly the worst moderation of any debate I have ever seen. No control of the constant interruptions, no challenging of blatant lies, no follow-up of arguments, and a bunch of non-sequiturs thrown in.
     

  212. Patrick Roden says:

    Ed Refused to answer David Cameron about the bedroom tax at Westminster on Wednesday, so Anas has just undermined him badly.
    The Tories will be laughing in thir socks right now as Anas has just decided Labour Party policy on the hoof and it’s been reported in the press as fact.
    If Ed denies this is Labour policy, it will show he is not in control of his party members.
    If Ed confirms it as Labour policy, it will show he is not in control of the Labour party.
    Win Win.. Thanks Anas. :-)

  213. Bunter says:

    Anus’s pledge on the bedroom tax is unlikely to make any of the papers. As we have seen, they cover Labours back.

  214. Juteman says:

    Canardvaarks debate any worse than Anas?

  215. CameronB says:

    Poor wee Anas. Wait a minute, he’s a millionaire isn’t he? This really is a funny meritocracy Tony B-Liar managed to create.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anas_superciliosa.jpg

  216. Macart says:

    @Firestarter
     
    Plenty raisins left in the cupboard. :D
     
    Didn’t get to see this last night. Looks as though Sarwar stuck to his usual tactic of lie followed by loud interruptions though. Be interesting to see how his pledge to abolish the bedroom tax pans out. Wonder if that was sanctioned by Labour parliamentary leadership. If not its a huge pie in the face for Labour head office. If it was then why was it left to him to break the news instead of Miliband himself?
     
    I smell smoke. As in liar, liar pants on fire. 

  217. CameronB says:

    Damn, wasn’t quick enough to edit.
     
    I forgot El Gordo’s role in establishing the meritocracy we all enjoy today.

  218. Gillie says:

    Apart from STV who else has reported that Labour are going to get rid of the Bedroom Tax. It is awfully silent out there in the media about this momentous announcement. Surely the whole world and Ed Miliband should be told.

  219. david says:

    dont matter how long or how hard you try, canard is not as funny as an-s. it just isnt, good efforts tho

  220. david says:

    the fact is , sarwar is lying to you. you know it, hes trying to keep his lifestyle at your expense. that is quite contemptable, making up a funny little nickname doesnt compare to what he is doing to all of us. suppose there is the higher ground right enough

  221. Macart says:

    Oh here we go.
     
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/labour-reveals-50million-plan-beat-2252502
     
    Rev you might want to have a wee gander. Labour reveals plan to beat bedroom tax, not scrap it mind, just beat it. Not for those of a nervous disposition or suffering from high blood pressure. Basically its bull, their cunning plan is to apparently pass a members bill asking the SG to find the 50mil from somewhere else (not specified). I know you’ve covered this already, but could this bill be what Sarwar was referring to?
     
    As was gone over yesterday in some detail, just where do Labour propose we take fifty mil from an already squeezed budget? There is only one way to beat the bedroom tax and that’s to scrap the effing thing. Those backstabbing hypocrites shouldn’t have introduced the bloody thing in the first place and are spending their time and not inconsiderable media resources trying to re write history. The con dems have made it immeasurably worse and somehow its the SNPs fault that people are being victimised. 
     
    For all those Labour members who visit this site (you know who you are). Do you want to beat the bedroom tax by stripping fifty mil from other essential areas or do you want to see it scrapped? This is a simple question and made without any sarcasm or accusation. Who do you want to hurt elsewhere in a squeezed budget? Its that brutal a game being played by your leadership. An independent Scottish government will have the power to scrap the thing and have pledged to do so. What Bailie is doing in your name is unforgivable and all in the name of politics not solutions. Please think this through before its too late. They are actively trying to cripple a government many of you fought to bring into being. That simply can’t be right, it can’t be what you want.

  222. Bubbles says:

    Mr. Shareware. I kid you not; this is what Apple auto-complete calls him. Lol.

  223. Gizzit says:

    @Macart
     
    Precisely – SLAB are simply colluding in a conspiracy to rob Peter (the upstart Jocks) to pay Paul (the Westminster welfare budget)
     
    The truth is, these Judases don’t care where it comes from, so long as they can have a field day distorting the truth, and presenting themselves as “champions of the poor” in a compliant media.
     
    When Labour controlled councils clearly state that they will not evict for arrears caused by under-occupancy measures, in the same way as SNP controlled councils have, then they would at least duck the charge of rank hypocrisy on this subject.
     
    I have no time for Lamont’s band of oily rogues – we need some socialists in the Labour party.

  224. G. Campbell says:

    Ex-BBC Scotland nut job* alert.

    “There is vile nastiness out there online. Take, for instance, the so-called ‘Cyber Nats’, a group of cyber bullies who are Scots independence zealots.

    “A quick glance at their ravings shows you that this group comprises middle-aged men who still live with their mums but who have discovered that the internet can be put to such uses as hurling abuse at those who do not support Scottish independence.

    “Their bile would be prosecuted in any other part of the UK (indeed throughout Europe) as race hate crimes. But, in Scotland, no prosecution is ever pursued.”

    http://archive.is/Ujazx

    * Or sane person/or partial nut job/or extreme Unionist nut job. I’m afraid I can’t conclude without more evidence. Not proven or something.
     

  225. gavin lessells says:

    Asked Gary Robertson this morning why no reference to Sarwar and Bedroom Tax.
    Just received a reply referring to interview YESTERDAY morning with Liam Byrne who addressed Labour and Bedroom Tax.
     
    Anybody hear it?

  226. dee says:

    GMS “reporter” Douglas Frazer allows CBI mouthpiece to put the boot into the Scottish Independence campaign unchallenged and without reply from Scottish Government. Typical BBC Scotland tactic, disgraceful.  Frazer just loves being in that kind of company, southern British, millionaire unionists preaching to northern British lowlife.

  227. Training Day says:

    Last night confirmed the new BT tactic now that scares are wearing thin – interrupt, obfuscate and drag the level of debate down so that their MSM buddies can say ‘they’re all as bad as each other’, and hope to instil apathy in the voter as a result. Eh, Mr Ponsonby?

    But you have to credit the BBC. They plough on with the scares. This morning it was a fawning interview with the Knight of the realm who fronts up the CBI. In crisply plummy tones he informed us that in no way would the CBI be campaigning for a No vote, but all the same ‘uncertainty’ blah blah ‘not convinced’ blah blah ‘dislocation’ blah blah. As is the way of things with the BBC these days, no alternative point of view was aired.

  228. ianbrotherhood says:

    There must be a lot of good, decent Labour people who despair – they’d benefit from studying the ‘Emotional Change Curve’ in Scott Minto’s post yesterday (On the Other Side of Fear) and plotting their current positions…some might discover that they’re closer to epiphany than they ever thought possible…not far to go people…one more push…concentrate…your eyelids are twitching, ready to open…

  229. Dave says:

    OT, how about a whip round for the 80 year old sodjer who was attacked while campaigning for independence?
    The sorry tale is here http://tinyurl.com/mzz93uk

  230. Macart says:

    @Gizzit
     
    I’m just utterly stunned at the complete lack of acceptance of responsibility Gizzit. Not only did Labour parliamentary leadership bring this vile tax into being a few years back, they left the door open for the tories to finish the process. Yet still they had a chance to undo this and regain some pride. When welfare reform was being brought before the house for debate and vote they could have made their presence felt and possibly even turned the bloody thing. They did not, they became the party of abstention or absence.
     
    Now, NOW its apparently all about the other guy. Somehow its all the tories fault period. Worse those cold unfeeling members of the SNP government could easily make all this go away if they find fifty mil to offset the cost, so if anybody suffers its all down to them. Nothing to see here at Labour HQ we’re just pointing stuff out. In fact if we were in power tomorrow, obviously we’d do something about it.
     
    I simply can’t believe the rank and file either agree with or are happy about this. FFS make yourselves heard, this is simply wrong. Be a Scottish Labour party and fight for your parliament. Do the right thing.

  231. Albalha says:

    @gavinlessels
    Here’s the link Liam B starts around 1hr 10 mins in, the interview was about the IDS IT Universal Credit nonsense, on bedroom tax towards the end of the interview he said ‘ We think it should be dropped now …….. we know that people will want proof that the money can be found to drop this policy, that’s what we’re working on now …..with Labour Councils up and down the country’ 
    All about the 2015 manifesto, basically if they can find the money from elsewhere they will ditch the bedroom tax, if not they won’t seems to be the line.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03903sq
     

  232. dmw42 says:

    Most of what I was going to say of last night’s ‘debate’ has already been stated. Two fantastic ‘put downs’ for me though were:
     
    “I want to take responsibility Anas, you don’t”.
     
    and the classic:
     
    “You managed to read that part of your script very well Anas”.
     
    A quote from earlier in the week by PO Tricia Marwick:
     
    “That’s not a Point of Order Mr Carlaw, just sit down”.
     
    Don’t you just love Scottish politics :-)

  233. Eddie says:

    @Sarwar.  Nicola answer the question while I talk over your answer and accuse you of not answering.  Let me also ignore the facts you are putting forward while I accuse you of not sticking to the facts.
     
    Here we have it folks.  Capable and professional politicians on one side and playground bullies on the other.  That debate must have any labour supporter in Scotland wincing at their parties tactics.  Nothing to say other than trying to rubbish any sort of answer or proposal put forward by the SNP or Yes Scotland.
     
    I did like Nicola’s parting shot of ‘stop making it up Anas’.  C’mon Nicola, you know that is labour policy.

  234. Craig P says:

    Cunning plan by Labour. If they shout loud enough they will get wall to wall coverage in the media as saviours of the people over bedroom tax. (The fact that SNP councils have committed to no evictions being lost in the noise). 

     
    Kirsty Wark on the Union Bridge! They couldn’t get much less impartial this side of Michael Kelly chairing a debate in the HQ of the Orange Order. 

  235. dee says:

    This is a video that NNS are posting.  Its a compilation of 6 videos relating to the Fear Factor that flows from the BT campaign, this is video 1 of 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgkCXONOrg8&feature=player_embedded
     

  236. Shinty says:

    Have to say, just watched the ‘debate’, can’t honestly say either side did themselves any favours. John Mackay in my opinion did try, but the whole thing was just a rammy.
    The one thing I did notice was a glazed look in Sarwar’s eyes – weird, is he always like that or just when he is lying.

  237. Krackerman says:

    I don’t think we do ourselves any favours listing articles from Ridley – I have little time for someone who utters such deluded nonsense as describing the Koran as a magna carta for women or praising the Chechen leader (Shamil Basayev) responsible for the attack on Beslan school which killed 385 people as a martyr and a leader of “an admirable struggle to bring independence to Chechnya”….
    I’d suspect most strongly that Ridley has her own agenda for wishing to see the UK dissolve – and I think it’s more to do with dividing the kaffirs (of which I am proudly one) than promoting social justice..

  238. Ruby Tuesday says:

    I call Anas Sarwar ‘Ananas Fritter’
    inspired by Cockney rhyming slang for Pinapple Fritter

  239. Doug Daniel says:

    “The one thing I did notice was a glazed look in Sarwar’s eyes – weird, is he always like that or just when he is lying.”
     
    Depends. Does he only do it when he speaks?

  240. Indy_Scot says:

     
    Never saw the debate last night, but from the STV analysis it sounds like the free for all type of debate at the end benefits no one other than Labour.
     
    Might be advisable for The Yes campaign to avoid being dragged down to Labours level.

  241. G. Campbell says:
    6 September, 2013 at 8:20 am

    Ex-BBC Scotland nut job* alert.

     
    In the Herald, Alistair bonnington wrote: “There is vile nastiness out there online. Take, for instance, the so-called “Cyber Nats”, a group of cyber bullies who are Scots independence zealots . . A quick glance at their ravings shows you that this group comprises middle-aged men who still live with their mums but who have discovered that the internet can be put to such uses as hurling abuse at those who do not support Scottish independence . . Their bile would be prosecuted in any other part of the UK (indeed throughout Europe) as race hate crimes.”
     
     
    @ G. Campbell – Yes, always surprises these jokers the lack of awareness of the irony of rants like this. It is surely true in the case of this unfortunate, that the eye sees not itself but by reflection.
     
     
    While condemning others, it appears Alistair himself is quiet happy to indulge in a spot of “vile nastiness” toward groups that oppose his political and social views. 
     
     
    What we have here is an appeal for the coercive power of the state to be used to suppress of the political speech of Mr Bonnington’s opponents. 
     
     
    Alistair is forthright in exercising HIS right to he heard while demanding that same right be denied to me (for I am a card-carrying cybernat).
     
     
    I would be personally offended, but I’m too busy rolling on the floor laughing my a$$ off.
     

  242. Doug Daniel says:

    Dee – watched that video on Bella Caledonia. I’m glad to see the guys that did the video BetterTogether tried to ban are doing more stuff.
     
    I dare say this series will do a lot more to convince people than a certain dug… And at a much cheaper cost, too!

  243. Desimond says:

    BBC dont seem to have noticed last nights debate, or ‘stairheid rammy’. Judging by the reaction on Twitter, Labour and indeed the Positive Cause for The Union took one helluva doing. A lot of Dont-Knows suddenly became aware that behind the curtain lurks nothing other than smoke and bluster.

  244. Morag says:

    Sorry, Krackerman, I just followed a link to that article, speed-read it over breakfast, and re-posted it because I thought it looked interesting.  No idea about the background of the author.

  245. gavin lessells says:

    @Albalha
    Many thanks. Byrne changed his tune with Andrew Neil on Politics later in the day saying that they would retain Universal Credits if “seen to be working” Sarwars denunciation obviously qualified but, of course, not stated.
    It is a can of worms the MSM will not touch.

  246. jimbo says:

    Re the story in the Record that Jackie Baillie was putting forward a Members Bill to have the Scottish government put up £50 million to cover the bedroom tax. 
     
    The Brechin Advertiser gives a more balanced and insightful report on this (MSM journalists should take note)
     
    Mary Taylor, chief executive of the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations (SFHA), said: “The intentions behind Labour’s plea for resources are laudable. And SFHA would welcome in principle further assistance to alleviate the financial impact of the bedroom tax upon tenants and their Scottish social landlords, whose arrears are mounting.
    “Boosting the DHP (discretionary housing payments) budget by £50 million, for example, might provide some temporary relief to some tenants, but it’s not a long-term solution to the problem.”
    “However, Holyrood does not have the legislative capacity to create a substitute benefit to cover part of a tenant’s rent liability, as that is reserved to Westminster, which leaves payment to landlords as a potential short-term form of assistance.
    “We are concerned that these proposals could add further complexity to what is already becoming a bureaucratic nightmare for landlords and tenants alike. We would want to be satisfied about the terms on which any financial support might be available and payable to landlords and look forward to further dialogue.
    “The bedroom tax is a deeply flawed policy which is not only causing widespread disruption across the sector in Scotland, but also in England and Wales. Rather than saving money, it is likely to cost more to implement, as our counterparts in Northern Ireland demonstrated earlier this year.
    She added: “There simply isn’t the supply of smaller homes for people to move to, so tenants are being punished for not occupying houses that don’t exist.
    “The solution is simple: the bedroom tax must be repealed.”
     
    http://www.brechinadvertiser.co.uk/news/scottish-headlines/baillie-to-propose-no-evictions-1-3075138

  247. Mosstrooper says:

    @krackerman & Morag
    Read the Ridley article and thought it quite pertinent. Know nothing about the author and she may indeed have another agenda however if it helps bring about the end of the Union it is OK. There can be room for “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” at least for now.

  248. Gillie says:

     
    So who else is reporting Sarwar’s comments on the Bedroom Tax?
     
    It has all gone eerily quiet in Media Land. 
     
    Has anyone told Ed Miliband he is scrapping the Bedroom Tax, surely he should be informed?

  249. CameronB says:

    Pay no attention

  250. jimbo says:

    From the article in the Brechin Advertiser:
     
    Labour finance spokesman Iain Gray said: “The bedroom tax operates under reserved legislation so the limitations on what the Government can do with the discretionary housing fund (DHF) are set by the Department of Work and Pensions.
    “They can increase the DHF by 1.5 times which would take us half the way we need to go.
    “The Scottish Government may say that we can’t do this because of social security legislation. Our answer to that is: your Government could find a way to do it.”
    The Government could fund rent arrears through underspends in government departments, he said.
     
    [re Labour] Scottish Conservative MSP Alex Johnstone, a member of Holyrood’s Welfare Reform Committee, said: “This is little more than attention seeking from a party bereft of ideas and whose economic policies got us into a situation we’re now having to sort out.
    “If this is the best they can do, they are obviously still unfit for government.
    “It’s utterly depressing the most enterprising suggestion Labour can come up with is a vacuous campaign that will achieve absolutely nothing.”
    http://www.brechinadvertiser.co.uk/news/scottish-headlines/baillie-to-propose-no-evictions-1-3075138

  251. AlexMci says:

    @ Gillie, not a word about it that I can find. Bloody shameful.

  252. Gillie says:

     
    Contact details for Ed Miliband to congratulate the Labour leader in committing himself and his party in repealing the Bedroom Tax. 
     
    Mr Ed Miliband, MP
    House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA
    Tel: 020 7219 4778
    ed [dot] miliband [dot] mp [at] parliament [dot] uk
     
    Go on give him your best wishes. 

  253. CameronB says:

    Re. Ridley’s article. I thought it was a well constructed summary of the situation, if a bit naive re. the geographical realities of global economic development patterns.  Possibly tinged by an unwelcome ‘class war’ mentality. Other than that, I thought it was a good read.
     
    P.S. I’m honestly not trying to start a fight, that is just my opinion.

  254. MajorBloodnok says:

    Lochside said: Sawar with his glazed eyes looked like the Mancunian Candidate…
     
    Was it not a bit further east than that?!

  255. Dcanmore says:

    The old ‘score-draw’ tactic just like Blether with Brian likes to trot out to spare Lamont’s blushes when Salmond wipes her from the floor. We’re in a phase where the pro-union media are now trying to shape public opinion rather than reflect it. This is something they don’t need to do if they were were confident that the NO campaign are 20/30 points ahead in the polls.
    Obviously the polls have become so guff that even old Prof. Curtice is having doubts about the recent ones. The only real indicator is the word on the street and going by reports the YES vote is on the rise as Project Fear falters. 

  256. Albalha says:

    @gavinlessels
    He said the same about Universal Credit on the GMS interview too …. the quote was about Bedroom Tax, basically that IF they can find a way to fund its repeal they will, if not, think we can assume, they won’t.
    Anyway it’s all pie in the sky, maybe in the 2015 manifesto etc.

  257. molly says:

    In regard to last nights debate, the childish ‘Top Secret ‘ document and the tactic of constantly interrupting , gave me the impression this was a Labour ‘group’ effort. The scripted questions, the prepared scary file , the keep it on policies rather than the  ‘ benefits ‘ of the Union ,had  the whiff of Douglas Alexander /Jim Murphy ( who I passed in Glasgow last night) usual interview style.
    All Anas had to do was deliver and be blew that. What must be frightening for whoever voted for him is he’s supposed to be part of Labours A team at Westminster representing their interests. A bit like the poster and trailer are better than the film.

  258. Doug Daniel says:

    I like the way when you look at the WOS front page, Alex Salmond is pointing at the number of comments on this article, as if to say “check how many comments there are!”

  259. Training Day says:

    In other news, pundits Bernard Ponsonby and Colin McKay describe Arbroath’s 36-0 victory over Bon Accord as ‘a draw’, with both sides failing to do themselves any credit. 

  260. Paula Rose says:

    @ Jimbo
    Gosh another reader of the Brechiner on this site!!!

  261. Gillie says:

    Training Day says:
     

    In other news, pundits Bernard Ponsonby and Colin McKay describe Arbroath’s 36-0 victory over Bon Accord as ‘a draw’, with both sides failing to do themselves any credit. 
     
    LOL

  262. The Man in the Jar says:

    @molly
    I pass a “Jim Murphy” every morning!
    (Sorry if it’s a bit early for toilet humour) :-)

  263. HandandShrimp says:

    One huge plus to the MSM calling it a draw, presumably Labour will get Anas to do all the subsequent debates…
     
    Oh I do hope so :)

  264. CameronB says:

    Did someone mention Anas? (no smiley ’cause he’s just not funny, he’s pathetic)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anas_superciliosa.jpg

  265. Albalha says:

    Re Y Ridley, isn’t she still a Respect Party member, if so she’s rather at odds, calling for a YES vote, with Mr G Galloway.
     
     

  266. Gillie says:

    Here are the Daily Record’s contact details, they will be delighted to know that Labour now is committed to repealing that Bedroom Tax;
     
    GOT A STORY? GET IN TOUCH!!
    If you’ve got a story for the Daily Record, we want to hear from you. Follow the instructions below and find the best way for you to get in touch with our team to tell them your story.
     
    HOW TO GET IN TOUCH
    The quickest way of getting in touch with our reporters is via phone.
     
    If you’re looking to speak to our Glasgow team, you can call them on 0141 309 3251 (or from outside the UK 0044 141 309 3251). If it’s a reporter in Edinburgh, call them on 0131 225 4275. For our Dundee office, call 0800 132364, and if it’s our Aberdeen staff, call 0800 716679
     
    If you want to text our reporters instead, you can do so by sending your message to 84080 – make sure you start the message with DRNEWS
     
    If you’re on Twitter, you can send us a message to@daily_record. Or you can also email us at reporters [at] dailyrecord [dot] co [dot] uk or reporters [at] sundaymail [dot] co [dot] uk.
     

  267. Luigi says:

    Don’t forget to use the old “MSM speak” translator, folks
     
    “score draw” = “Labour politician was really crap, failed to land a punch”.

  268. Dougie Douglas says:

    OT for some light entertainment …here in Australia we have a general election tomorrow which will see a cringe worthy new PM elected.  Ladies and gentleman I present to you Prime Minister Abbott:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wT9XS_TvzQ

    Secondly and not so lightheartedly the Murdoch media have been laying into the incumbent PM.  Their dislike is not entirely unreasonable as Rudd has squandered goodwill and considerable electoral backing on a range of issues. However Australian’s don’t take too kindly to media manipulation:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grqp-JQMFuM
    Civic Scotland: grow yourself some.

    The Murdoch papers have been laying the boot into the incumbent PM

  269. Macart says:

    @Jimbo
     
    Does seem a more balanced approach. Mary Taylor is right though. Say the SG could just magic up fifty mil from somewhere, the problem isn’t solved by any stretch. You’re merely treating the symptoms year on year with no cure for the cause. Labour’s solution is no solution merely a crude and cruel stick to damage the SNP and in fact Holyrood itself. Using the pain these people are currently suffering at the hands of this tax is beyond reason and simple human decency.
     
    There is only one solution, abolish the tax. The one way open to achieve this is by gaining independence, gaining full control of our resource and taxation. Monies saved from Trident contributions alone could be used to promote affordable housing builds making up for the current desperate shortfall. No more need to hound people out their homes and into desperation.
    So where would we find fifty mil? We can do a wee bit better than that for a permanent solution.

  270. Gillie says:

    The Scotsman and the Herald should be told the good news as well;
     
    Political editor, The Scotsman/ Scotland on Sunday
    Eddie Barnes
    Phone:0141 236 6455
    Email:ebarnes [at] scotsman [dot] com

    Twitter:EddieBarnes23
     
    MAGNUS GARDHAM
    POLITICAL EDITOR
    magnus [dot] gardham [at] heraldandtimes [dot] co [dot] uk
    0131 557 5157
     
    They will be delighted to hear from you. 

  271. velofello says:

    Well that’s a first, Morag ducking the issue!I’m quacking in my boots for her response.
    In boxing parlance Nicola spared her opponent and being so far ahead in points settled for a technical knockout by patting Anas on the head and saying You are a really nice guy” (for all your ignorant behaviour and lies tonight)

  272. The Man in the Jar says:

    I hope that I have got it right but I am sure that I have read somewhere else on this site that the annual bill to Scotland for the running and upkeep of Westminster comes to £70mil. There is your bedroom tax sorted!

  273. Andrew Morton says:

    I have been searching the MSM sites for a proper review of last night’s encounter. I found one, Magnus Gardham’s review of poetry inspired by the ‘debate’.
    That is all.

  274. Gillie says:

    WoS readers are duty bound to get the Good News out to the Scottish media and the rest of the Labour party.
     
    “Anas Sarwar Scraps the Bedroom Tax”….. and he did it all by himself, what a good boy. 
     
    Anas deserves a pat on the head from his dad. 

  275. Bill C says:

    @Gillie – email to Ed.
    “Dear Mr. Miliband,
    Anas Sarwar (Deputy Leader of Labour in Scotland) said last night on STV’s Scotland Tonight, that Labour would scrap the ‘Bedroom Tax’, if returned to government in the 2105 UK General Election.
    I would be obliged if you would confirm that this is the case.
    Thank you
    Bill Cruickshank”
    Will let you know if I get a reply.

  276. ron17 says:

    Just phoned HoC to congratulate Mr  Milliband on commiting to repeal the Bedroom tax,as per Mr Sarwars comments.The Woman who answered said Mr Milliband has not made this commitment and they do not know of Mr Sarwars comments.Another thing is BT have been making projections for the future,30yrs this 40 yrs that so can they tell the Scottish government the REAL cost of mitigating the Bedroom Tax.

  277. Gillie says:

    The Govan Law Centre Trust will now have no need for their petition to the Scottish Parliament. 
     
    http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/gettinginvolved/petitions/bedroomtax
     
    Someone should tell Michael Dailly the good news;
     
    Mike Dailly,
    Principal Solicitor at Govan Law Centre,
    18-20 Orkney Street, Glasgow,
    G51 2BZ or
    m [at] govanlc [dot] com

  278. jimbo says:

    @Macart
     
    I listened to the pundits deriding the Scottish government’s claim that they would scrap the bedroom tax should we become independent. This would be at a cost of £50 million, and where was the £50 million to come from?
     
    Never at any time (unless I missed it) did I hear them deride Labour’s big idea to offset the bedroom tax. And what was Labour’s big idea of where the £50 million was to come from? Of course – the Scottish government should stump it up.
     
    Scottish government to abolish bedroom tax at cost of £50 million = Bad.
    Labour’s idea to pay the tax at cost of £50 million to Scottish government = Good.
     
    Also; They claim that scrapping the bedroom tax would cost £50 million. I’m sure I heard Alex Salmond say that by retaining it it is costing Scotland’s economy £100 million per year.

  279. Elizabeth says:

    My fav comment on Twitter last night:
    “Anas, Malcolm Tucker here – Can I have a word?”

  280. Gillie says:

    ron17 says:
    Just phoned HoC to congratulate Mr  Milliband on commiting to repeal the Bedroom tax,as per Mr Sarwars comments.The Woman who answered said Mr Milliband has not made this commitment and they do not know of Mr Sarwars comments.
     

    Now that is worrying. Obviously that woman is living in ignorance. We must re-double our efforts to get pass the hired help and make sure Ed Miliband is aware of his success 

  281. Gillie says:

    heraldnomore says: He’s been noticed….
     
    http://labourlist.org/2013/09/is-this-confirmation-that-labour-plans-to-abolish-the-bedroom-tax/

    Has Anas stolen Ed’s thunder???????????????

  282. Macart says:

    @Jimbo
     
    As Ms Taylor pointed out in fact.
     
    Its really a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. Their solution which is no solution is probably one of the most callous exercises I’ve seen in the past month. This time however it wouldn’t just harm the SG, but the parliament and the electorate. To be compounded by Sarwar’s apparently unsanctioned throwaway sound bite last night is simply adding insult to injury.

  283. Desimond says:

    Hi Ed
    Many thanks for your party committing to end the Bedroom Tax. Anas Sarwar on Scotland Tonight made everyone smile with his statement and I, like many others cant wait to see you publically backing his promise.
    Best regards

  284. Andrew Morton says:

    I have followed Bill’s lead and emailed congratulations to Ed Milliband.

  285. MajorBloodnok says:

    Elizabeth says: My fav comment on Twitter last night:

    “Anas, Malcolm Tucker here – Can I have a word?”
     
     
    lol

  286. Chic McGregor says:

    @CameronB
    “Did someone mention Anas? (no smiley ’cause he’s just not funny, he’s pathetic)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anas_superciliosa.jpg
     
    Still with the canard jokes.

  287. Tamson says:

    @gillie – Anas doesn’t want a par on the head from his dad. His Dad recently became a foreigner, and Better Together keep telling us that foreigners are a bad thing…

  288. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Chic McGregor
     
    Well, if it walks like a duck…

  289. Morag says:

    A canard, of course, also being a popular assumption or story that’s NOT TRUE.

  290. Donald MacDonald says:

    Anas! Duck!

  291. Mosstrooper says:

    Well said Morag. Let’s see them Duck out of that.

  292. Brian Powell says:

    I mentioned Sarwar stating that the bedroom tax would be abolished (as did others) on the Herald comments (two threads) and on the Telegraph comments ( thread about schools in Scotland).
    There was a well known anti-Independence commentator in the Herald who posted the same reply to any one who highlighted Sarwar’s statement.

  293. Jeannie says:

    @Morag
     
    Quick – the Rev’s said “canard” in the next story.  Respect!

  294. muttley79 says:

    Last night’s debate was confirmation, if any were needed, that the No campaign have absolutely no intention of allowing a debate of any sort on Scottish independence.  This is a surreal position to take, not lest because it completely flies in the face of the last 50 years or so of Scottish politics.  Having done all they could to avoid a referendum on independence, which includes supporting the creation of a devolved Scottish parliament when they did not really want too (see McWhirter’s book), and trying to fix the voting system to ensure that a majority was impossible to achieve, the No campaign are reduced to trying to close down debate everywhere. 
     
    This includes intimidation of Yes supporters at events, deleting comments by Yes supporters on their own official internet pages, booing Salmond at public events, and now during live TV debates blatantly shutting down debate by being as obnoxious as possible.  Sarwar last night had no intention of debating the issues, or answering questions.  He was there for one purpose only, to disrupt as much as possible the debate. 

  295. CameronB says:

    At last. :)

  296. Jamie Arriere says:

    Ach, Dave McEwan Hill,
     
    Angry at myself for following your Scotsman link- however noticed there was a banner there with “WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE SCOTSMAN?”
     
    So I took the poll and LET RIP!!! I recommend it to anyone else
     

  297. Geoff Huijer says:

    Scotsman feedback…
    Q: How can we improve this website?
     
    A: Close it down.

  298. eva says:

    I emailed Labour HQ last night asking when the abolition would take effect. I had an automatic acknowledgement at 23.55 confirming that my message would be sent to the appropriate team to deal with. Haven’t heard a peep since.



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