Will the referendum be won this month?
The independence referendum is roughly two and a quarter years away. (Remember how recently it was two and a half? Time flies when you’re having fun.) But two things that could happen within the next three weeks could do more to decide it than a thousand embarrassing TV “debates” or multi-million pound campaigns. For those of you in the heretic camp, we apologise in advance, because to find out why we’re going to have to talk about football some more.
This week sees the announcement of the final 18-strong Team GB football squad for the Olympics. We’ve already looked at the potential implications of any Scot featuring in the selection, although to be frank with just 18 players to be chosen we’ll be surprised if any make it on merit anyway, never mind the politics of the situation.
The other thing happening this month, of course, will be the SFA Appellate Tribunal’s reassessment of the club’s punishment on charges of bringing the game into disrepute. Or at least, it might – according to the Herald, Rangers haven’t yet ruled out a further appeal to the Court of Session:
“Rangers welcomed the verdict that the SFA were not in a position to hand down a signing embargo but may yet appeal the decision to return the case to the Appellate Tribunal, believing the case should instead be judged by a panel at the first stage of the process.”
It is extremely difficult to overstate how much such a course of action would enrage FIFA, who are already furious that civil law courts have been involved in the case at all rather than purely sporting ones. Were the Ibrox club to be insane enough to engage the CoS a second time, the international body would be likely to impose savage sanctions on the SFA, which could very well include the banishment of the Scottish national side from competitions.
The phrase “90-minute patriots” was coined as a slight on Scottish people whose sense of national identity was restricted to the duration of football matches. Nonetheless, there are a great many such people. This month, Team GB and Rangers FC between them could set in motion a chain of events which will bring about the end of Scotland as a footballing nation. In our view, such a scenario would turn the polling figures for the referendum round overnight. We’ll be watching with interest.
There is no doubt that superficially trivial things can be tipping points. Football may seem a petty cause compared to independence. But who can say that the issue of football is any less valid than, say, the issue of the monarchy if that is where people’s concerns lie?
I suspect fifa want their pound of flesh.
Good win at rugby in oz. braveheart stuff…
There’s some evidence to suggest that the events of Argentina in 78 may have had a negative impact on the 79 referendum.
“But who can say that the issue of football is any less valid than, say, the issue of the monarchy if that is where people’s concerns lie?”
Well, indeed. I think if we learned anything this weekend it’s that Scottish people don’t give much of a toss about the monarchy, and we know they DO care a great deal about football. So why wouldn’t it be a far more significant factor?
I think we will find out soon enough that redcliffe is right. FIFA will be found BANGING on the door of Hampden DEMANDING SERIOUS penalties are enforced upon Rangers. As everyone knows failure on this matter is NOT an option!
Personally, I think that no matter what team people support there has been, up till now at least, a sort of soft spot for Rangers in terms of the predicament they find themselves in. The soft spot being for the players, employees and fans of Rangers NOT anyone involved in the financial shenanigans that have taken place over the years! Should Rangers, or more likely the administrators, decide to return to the CoS at a future date to appeal any future penalty from Hampden then I’m sorry but Rangers deserve EVERYTHING that is thrown at them! At this point I’m sure the whole of the Scottish footballing fraternity will be turning against them BIG style!
On a side issue, you are right redcliffe. That was an AWESOME win by the Scottish rugby team down under in what was apparently appalling conditions. Maybe that’s the problem with Scottish rugby, perhaps we need to ensure they ALWAYS play in appalling weather to ensure they win. 😀
I didn’t have a “soft spot” for anyone at Rangers except ancillary employees (tea-ladies, cleaners etc) who stood to lose their jobs. But I think the more relevant point is that many of the other clubs in the league DID have a “soft spot” for them, in so far as they ultimately wanted Rangers to survive, for one reason or another.
I think the Court of Session case put an end to that. When Rangers risked the existence of every other club in Scotland, and the national side to boot, I have a feeling the balance of opinion shifted significantly towards “screw ’em”. I can’t for the life of me picture a situation where the SFA can now get out of suspending them for at least a season, and if that happens they might as well expel them altogether, because nobody’s going to buy a football club that costs £45m a year to run and has an income of zero.
What I find particularly sad is hearing the blind sheep that are the RFC fans emptying their pockets and making pledges to support the corrupt club that has blatantly run off with millions and left a big bill for everyone else while those involved were lining their own pockets. They should be out for blood, not desperate to give them yet more cash.
They’d buy yet another overpriced t-shirt to “support the team” if the board came by their house, pissed all over their breakfast and insisted it was because they had no cereal of their own to pee on.
You’d think after hitting your head off the wall a few times you’d realise that hitting it against it again is not going to yield new and different results.
You might be right in that this could play into the hands of the pro-independence side of the debate, but I think that the reverse gear will come into play if this starts to happen and is commonly realised. It almost seems too good to be true that it could be swung so easily and quickly. Would the after effects of such a move at the Olympics or even the SFA last long enough to reach 2014?
It could be that Rangers (probably unwittingly) have put the SFA in a position where, to survive themselves, they have to destroy Rangers.
We live in interesting times.
I was reflecting this morning on the identity of Scottish football without Rangers and remembered non old firm fans, including myself, referring to Rangers and Celtic as the “ugly sisters”.
When Postman Pat is on the dole he is known as Pat. Who is an Ugly Sister who has lost her sibling? Just ugly?
“It could be that Rangers (probably unwittingly) have put the SFA in a position where, to survive themselves, they have to destroy Rangers.”
That does very much seem to be the position. If the Appellate Tribunal comes up with some piddly one-season expulsion from the Scottish Cup (which is in effect a one- or two-match ban, six at the theoretical most) there’s going to be a mighty uproar. I just can’t see it.
The wussiest sanction I think they could have even a shred of a chance of getting away with would be exclusion from the Cup for five years minimum, but even that would be pushing it, and it’s not even clear that kicking a team out of the Cup before it’s started is actually allowed for in the SFA rules. It might have to be suspension or nothing, and nothing isn’t going to cut it.
I think you are wrong on this, Stu.
I hope the Scottish people are more sophisticated than that.
O/T.
I hope you don’t mind Stu.
I seem to be permanently on pre-mod on NNS, and most of my posts never see the light of day.
Am i the only one?
No, you’re not. Me too.
I had the temerity to post complainingly about a brain-dead article about the reporting of the local election results that cost me half a morning in futile searching because I assumed the author knew what he was talking about. I tried to request a correction, and was ignored. Eventually posts of mine were deleted and I was put on pre-mod. The article was never corrected.
I’m by way of being a bit of an expert on the Lockerbie affair, but half the posts I tried to make on the recent articles on that subject never made it through. Plenty mad conspiracy assertions did though.
My most recent post was a pedantic moan about the use of “free reign” when the correct term is “free rein”. Horses, you know. Didn’t get through. Criticism of an article seems to be verboten.
One post I made a few days ago about BBC bias was initially approved, then vanished. When I queried this, I was told it was defamatory. Which was complete rubbish. It was far more temperate than most of the foam-flecked rantings that appear on that subject.
I think I’m just persona non grata and I should go away. It’s little more than a fan-boy echo chamber anyway.
Juteman..
I gave up on NNS due to their censorship. Perfectly reasonable posts deleted ( on the fly usually) if they criticised windmills or the Dear Leader etc. Ironic since I’ve always supported the SNP and independence but it’s made me re-assess who to support now.
NNS is currently on a crusade against BBC bias ( fair enough – the BBC is institutionally biased against the SNP and independence) but NNS is just as biased and keen on censorship.
As for Rangers (IA). I’ve not got a soft spot for any of the players. They mostly cheat and moan and dive etc. The biggest cheat ( Kris Boyd) has gone but nothing much has changed. All this nonsense about us needing Rangers and we should back them etc. Got to laugh. They would be off like a shot to the EPL ( with Ugly no 2) if they got the chance. I wonder what the jokers on Radio Scotland would talk about then. No more succulent lamb for them ha ha.
I’m glad i’m not alone, Morag.
On-shore windfarms were the catalyst (i think) for myself being not onside.
I don’t want to repeat my opinions again, but lets just say i’m not a fan. 🙂
Juteman says:
June 5, 2012 at 7:42 pm
O/T.
I hope you don’t mind Stu.
I seem to be permanently on pre-mod on NNS, and most of my posts never see the light of day.
Am i the only one?
Join the club Juteman.
Perhaps we should start a subsidiary of WoS and call it the NNS mod club. 😀
If Macart is free I think I’ll look to transfer the “Darkened Room” over from NNS to this site! 😀
I cannot understand why the media does not ask the 50 odd people who had EBT’s if they knew they were avoiding tax in a dodgy manner.
Tax avoidance is not tax fraud, but having played for other clubs, most players would know they were getting far more than they used to….. their annual tax returns would be fascinating.
I am sure Barry Ferguson with his 2.5 mill would be an interesting question and answer session.
If they have nothing to hide they should be happy to discuss it?
I think the point made by Billy Dodds in his rather reckless Herald interview was that tax WAS deducted from his EBT payment by Rangers, but Rangers then failed to pass that money on to HMRC.
Juteman says:
June 5, 2012 at 7:11 pm
I think you are wrong on this, Stu.
I hope the Scottish people are more sophisticated than that.
I agree, I am convinced that there are many, perhaps a majority who, like me, do not consider their nationality to be represented by footballers nor their teams. The fate of any one team/club will most certainly not have any bearing on how I vote. The sooner this topic is eliminated from the true purpose of the independence discussion, the better.
“The fate of any one team/club will most certainly not have any bearing on how I vote.”
With respect, it seems reasonably safe to assume that you’re planning to vote Yes anyway, so it wouldn’t be likely to. Such events as those posited in the article would almost certainly only affect a possible change in the view of those currently in the No camp.
I’ll be curious to see how Question Time plays out on Thursday night. The BBC had to be dragged kicking and screaming to allow Nicola Sturgeon on. Originally it was going to just be Alan Cumming versus the Empire………
“David Dimbleby chairs Question Time from Inverness. On the panel, Deputy First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon MSP, former leader of the Liberal Democrats Charles Kennedy MP, Labour’s leader in Scotland Johann Lamont MSP, Conservative former Secretary of State for Scotland Lord Forsyth, Daily Mail columnist Melanie Phillips and the actor Alan Cumming.”
Balance? I might tune in to see if Philips chews the furniture.
@John White
Yes, Mad Mel is always good value for comedy gold, guaranteed to be the star of the show. But this is hardly a stellar unionist line-up is it? Let’s see, we’ve got Mad Mel, Lord – is he still alive then? – Forsyth, Danny ‘the drone’ Alexander, and Jimmy Krankie. All of them representing the deep gouge marks at the bottom of the unionist barrel. Jeez, if we can’t beat these jokers, we don’t deserve independence!
Is there anyone out there foolish enough to take odds on the number of times that the sound-bite ‘stronger together weaker apart’ will be used? Always tickles me when this sound-bite is expediently truncated by its users. Of course, it should be, ‘stronger together with a Tory government at Westminster, weaker apart’. On that point, surely the burning question about tonight’s programme will be, how will Jimmy Krankie, in one of her rare public outings, handle the still-to-be-officially-announced Labour-Tory coalition? And how soon into the programme will it be before she fluffs her lines? This should be a goodie.
Blimey, I didn’t even notice Lamont on there. Don’t usually bother with QT, but will definitely tune in to watch her inevitable car-crash of a performance.
Indeed Stuart,
In anticipation of tomorrow’s tele-visual treat, the thought occurs to me: never mind the Rangers case, or the fitba or FIFA or the Olympics. This referendum could be won by tomorrow night!
Just had a thought! Rare I know but hey it happens occasionally you know! 😀
Do you think Lamont is on Q.T. because she was lured out of her bolt hole by being told that the Q.T. in question (sorry about the pun there!) was First Minister’s Questions. She didn’t have the presence of mind to question why F.M.Q.’s was being held in Inverness, she probably thought it was all part of the Scottish government’s summer tour of Scotland that they do every year.
Arbroath1320,
LOL!
Here’s another thought to add to yours. Do you think that Jimmy Krankie only agreed to go on the programme when she thought that it would just be Alan Cumming that she would be up against? Now that Nicola Sturgeon has been added to the panel, for a certain someone making a rare appearance on ‘British’ television without her school cap, it’s squeaky bum time! And will Scottish Labour make a rushed announcement, before 6.00pm tomorrow, that, regrettably, she has a prior engagement?
Please, please, please, please, please let her replacement be Anas Sarwar. Anas Sarwar and Mad Mel on the same QT panel. Not only would that be worth the whole year’s licence fee by itself, I can’t think of any other ‘killer combo’ that’s more guaranteed to secure a Yes vote in 2014.
WHEESHT! 😀
For gawds sake YYY what are you trying to do?
We’re trying to keep Nicola’s appearance on the panel secret. We want it to be a nice wee surprise for Jimmy. I think in “hunting” terms it’s called setting the bear trap,:or to be more exact in her case a mouse trap! 😀
Slightly OT but continuing the QT theme; Now that it seems Nicola will be on the panel, I wonder if La Mont catches a cold or something just before the filming?
Regards NNS; I still visit the site (as Aplinal) and have been modded off a few times. I also understand the reaction to the ‘love in’ as I was ever so mildly critical of Nicola (suggesting she should up her game, and talk facts, not assertions, e.g. BofE) and was pounced on by a few who rushed to her defence. She doesn’t need anyone to defend her, I think she is a very capable politician, and can see her leading the SNP in the future.
BUT … her opinion about Scottish government representation on the BofE monetary committee is just that, it is the opinion that there SHOULD be a representative, not that one would be guaranteed. It allowed the pro-dependency parties to whip up a faux-storm in a teacup, and allowed the MSM and BBC (Bless them!) to emphasise the ‘slip of the tongue’ and to ignore the pertinent issue.
Still, I will try to find a way to watch QT tonight on the web.
“I didn’t have a “soft spot” for anyone at Rangers except ancillary employees (tea-ladies, cleaners etc) who stood to lose their jobs. But I think the more relevant point is that many of the other clubs in the league DID have a “soft spot” for them, in so far as they ultimately wanted Rangers to survive, for one reason or another.”
Really, you’d never know……BTW I still stand by my original prediction that nothing will come down from FIFA. Rangers will get Cup ban from SFA and it will be done. Recent actions from FIFA show they are less bold than they used to be and as long as Rangers leave it as it is and let the SFA rule within the remit of their own authority(e.g cup ban not a transfer ban) then it will die.
The hyperbole around threatening the very being of Scottish football is absolute nonsense and is fuelled by people who should know better than jumping to the worst case scenario(or in some cases<cough> their fondest dream)
Aplinal..
Nicola is no longer on the panel ( replaced by Alex Neil ).
She has been running on empty for a while and is busy with the legion thing so for the best.