What’s that secret you’re keeping?
The mystery of the alleged vandalism attack by “Yes supporters” on the office of Labour MP Ian Murray in Edinburgh this week has turned into quite a labyrinth.
We rang Mr Murray’s office this morning, speaking to a nice chap called Stuart (or Stewart, we forgot to ask), who declined to elaborate on the nature of the alleged vandalism but told us that Mr Murray had seen our story and would get back to us.
Below are the questions we’ll be trying to clear up.
[EDIT 16.43: Mr Murray, having first telephoned me, has published a response on his blog, which you can read in full here. In so far as it addresses the questions below, we’ve added the answers in bold.]
1. What was the precise nature of the supposed vandalism?
[An unspecified number of stickers on the windows and doors.]
2. Was any permanent damage caused? If so, where?
[Seemingly not.]
3. The Scottish Daily Mail’s political editor Alan Roden tweeted this last night:
Which journalists “checked this out”? How many? Why aren’t they named? Were any of them from the Scottish Daily Mail? Why didn’t they take any pictures?
[No journalists attended the scene. Mr Murray told them what he alleges happened and they took him at his word.]
4. Why, indeed, did Mr Murray not take pictures himself rather than having journalists sent out to verify the claim? Is he the only politician in Scotland who doesn’t have a cameraphone?
[not addressed]
5. When exactly did these journalists investigate the claims? By mid-morning yesterday the news had broken of the tragic death of a pupil at Liberton High School in the constituency, which readers might imagine might be a more pressing story to cover than an MP’s office having a couple of stickers put on it. By teatime there was no evidence of any stickers. So when precisely were these unnamed “journalists” at Mr Murray’s office?
[The journalists did not visit the office to verify the claims.]
6. Is it normal practice for media outlets to dispatch multiple journalists to the scene when someone’s allegedly put a sticker on something?
[n/a]
7. Did the Scottish Daily Mail decide that the story wasn’t newsworthy, given the fact that there’s no mention at all of the incident in the paper’s “Shameful cybernats” editorial today?
[They “took the decision” that “it wasn’t a story”.]
8. Was this “vandalism” reported, or will it be reported, to the police? If not, why not? Vandalising property – in this case, premises which are ultimately paid for by the taxpayer – is a criminal offence.
[It was “reported informally”, ie in casual conversation, not officially.]
9. There are two visible CCTV cameras completely covering the two sides of Mr Murray’s office (plus a further camera on the traffic lights a few feet away). Did either of them capture any footage of the alleged attack? If not, why not? If so, has this evidence been forwarded to the police?
[not addressed]
10. Were the CCTV cameras installed with the use of public funds?
[not addressed]
We’ll keep you informed, readers.
[Mr Murray has called for the original article to be retracted or deleted on the grounds of “inaccuracies”, although his post doesn’t appear to actually identify anything factually incorrect in it. As such we have not amended it.
In his phone call to me he said of the incident “Is it vandalism? Well, probably not”, though later in the call he denied having said that and suggested that “in the terms of the law” it was vandalism. However, the law does not appear to support such a definition:
Source: Section 52, Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995
As to the best of our knowledge no part of Mr Murray’s office has been destroyed or damaged by the stickers, the claim of “vandalism” as defined in Scots law appears to fail. At most, it may be “attempted vandalism”, though that would appear to require a considerable stretching of the term.
Mr Murray also offers no justification for the claim that the incident was perpetrated by “Yes supporters”, other than that they allegedly used Yes stickers – a claim for which no evidence has in any event been provided. “It is plausible and logical that a crime might have been committed by X” is not proof that X committed the crime.]
Number 6 .. hahahaha!
The thick plottens.
Will an informed constituent vote for Murray next time around?
Surely he would have to answer these questions, or questions in a similar vein, to one of his constituants!
Anyone got a spare 20 minutes?
Oh, and, everybody passing by should be keeping an eye the next few mornings in case they take pictures with the yes stickers (Stickers…THAT is vandalism? Here was me thinking spray paint!) and “back date” them as taken from the morning of the alleged incident!
Oooh… stickers. That’s clearly very serious. Vandalism… pfft.
And that’s even if this remarkably slim on detail tail of ‘vandalism’ does turn out to be true.
The British Media Establishment would like to assure its patrons that no doors or stickers were harmed in the making of this fictional dramatisation and that all references to doors or stickers, living or dead, are purely coincidental.
I have been shocked in recent weeks to see small Yes stickers appearing on several lamp-posts in the Sauchiehall Street area of Glasgow. I am sure when I report this to the local authority said lamp-posts will be removed immediately. These pesky Nats are inflicting needless cruelty to the hardworking lamp-posts of Glasgow.
Stickers – what stickers !?!?!?
The scratches on the doors have been there for at least 18 months and this miserable onanist has failed to take any action to freshen up the paintwork – so much for having any consideration for his neighbours etc
NO evidence of any damage or vandalism relating to the YES campaign.
Just another LIE from an MP who voted for the Benefits Cap a few days ago.
Get out Murray – your time’s up
This is why we love (and need) Wings. Few others have the resources to keep doggedly asking the questions which we need answers to.
Keep it up Wings – politicians are answerable to the electorate, much as some of them don’t like that bit about their jobs.
Great work Stuart.
“And i would have gotten away with it too, if it hadnt ah been for those pesky Wings!”. – Ian Murray MP
In a previous life I was a very high-profile SNP activist. If Labour were leafletting in my area they would stick any material left over through my letterbox. That could be a lot of paper. I never considered it ‘vandalism’, just a laugh. What’s up with this Murray person? As they say in the army, if you can’t take a joke you shouldn’t have joined.
Its always the same push them and they back off. Everytime they highlight something that has happened then they should be asked who reported it to the police and when.
It might seem like overkill but if they are going to lie then the consequence is they should be put on the spot.
He’s going to get curbstomped by the tories at the next election. couldn’t happen to a nicer guy!
An indepedent Scotland can do more than pay tribute to great men … we can build the things they devoted their lives to.
http://www.commentisntfree.com/a-mark-of-respect/
On today’s news … their tactics are laughable. I worry what crap they will get up to next. It’s a matter of time before the old bogeyman of “Tartan Terrorism” rears its ugly head once more.
I would put nothing past these people.
Knock Knock!
Who’s there?
Ian Murray!
Ian Murray who?
Thats 2016 for you!
Major Bloodnock….’the thick plottens’……thanks.LOL
“Journalists checked this out hours ago” – journalists as opposed to ‘nasty nat bloggers’ with larger readerships that actual newspapers?
I wonder how much of his 316 vote majority is left now?
Additional question for Alan Roden.
Have you ever uttered anything publicly which wasn’t a lie, a distortion or done at the behest of people who pay you money?
Vandalism:- deliberately mischievous or malicious destruction or damage of property
Looking at the photographs taken last night and published on wings whatever happened to his office was not vandalism!
I suppose, for this to be a real story, there would have to be proof that the stickers had been affixed by a Yes supporter not by a mischief seeking No supporter.
Over to you, Mr Murray.
They’re trying to engineer the situation to make it look like Murray didn’t lie. And by ‘they’ I include the compliant lapdog of a Scottish media.
Desimond
Belter.The quote could be used for the whole BT.
Desimond:
Knock knock
Ian Murray: that’s f*cking vandalism and unacceptable behaviour by the Yes Campaigners!
As some of you may know Ian Murray is the figurehead of the Foundation of Hearts. I’ve seen zero comments from him condemning Hearts fans stickering Easter Road at their 2 recent league cup semi finals…
Point of fact is that the stickers didn’t really bother me. The broken seats and shit over the walls did a bit though. Those weren’t condemned by Ian Murray either to my knowledge.
As a leader of jambos shouldn’t he have been taking a strong stand. Is that behaviour acceptable?
This is indeed a sticky situation.
Now is not the time for exaggeration, but it could be argued that sticker crime has been with us for many years and may be the #1 crime facing developed civilisations. I defer to former Advocate, Alistair Darling on this.
I saw a film about a man sent to prison in French Guiana. Something makes me think it involved sticker crime in the first half of the 20th century. Anyway, I can’t quite remember the name of the movie. It began with a ‘P’ … “Panini” … that’s it. Well worth a watch.
I trust Police Scotland are treating this case with the resources it merits.
It seems to me that some Britnat has vandalised a YES leaflet by sticking Murray’s door to it.
What about poor beth watt who has had her tires flattened the other day and today discovered someone has slashed the soft top on her car which conveniently is covered in yes stickers? Bet that wont make it into the news!
Stickers! Stickers! To the tower with them – Orf with their ‘eds! Barbarians these Jocks!!
O/T Anyone heard from Ronnie recently??
A guy on a Courier comment thread bragged about removing as many YES stickers as he can when he’s out walking his dog. It gave him great satisfaction apparently. I don’t know if he lives in that area though. The phantom sticker remover strikes again! ;D
Saw him at PMQs so you may have to wait some time for a reply
He’ll be off to eat his subsidised lunch now
Mr Murray finds a YES sticker attached to his manky office door.He is outraged and phones the Daily Mail,rather than the Police,to report the incident.The Daily Mail say even they won’t run such a trivial story because it will make them look very silly indeed.So Mr Murray has to content himself with making as much of a song and dance about it as he can on twitter.Making himself look very silly indeed.Meanwhile,Mr Roden of the Daily Mail looks on,shakes his head and mutters “what a pillock.He doesn’t know when to hold his Tongue.He’s doing our campaign more harm than good”.
Aye those nasty Nats have been stickering the bus stops in Dunfermline, well round Duloch to be exact. Fair cheered me up when out walking the dog, special the one that said end London Rule.
The self righteous hypocrites at the Daily Mail are a sight to behold too. Its just plain weird that these bizarre characters think they have the right to do and say anything they like, including leching over very young girls but woe betide anyone that argues with them.
@Jimbo
LOL – Comment of the Day 🙂
STICKERGATE
@JPFife
Hahaha,
And now the News from Edinburgh..
Brave and generous Labour MP Ian Murray will pay for damage to his surgery door after suspected bloodthirsty YES campaigners turned up on his doorstep trying to break it down. “My constituents shouldnt suffer” said the caring Member of Parliament.
In other news, 2 Elderly women from the Jehovahs Witness have been taken to Hospital suffering severe shock when a Hearts fan shouted verbal abuse through a letter box at them whilst they were distributing the WatchTower
Ian Murray “oh no the internet strikes again”
O/T and I hope Im not repeating anybody here, just received an invititation from Independence Live to watch the “Friends of WOS” at the Counting House on Friday night.
I gave up my Equity card years ago, can I still come?
:0
after independence rUK won’t be able to fund nuclear subs of its own.It might,however,be allowed to put a great big Union Jack sticker on an American sub.I think Mr Murray should be given the honour of sticking on that sticker.
“Stickers? I see no stickers”
Police are following a new lead in Sticker Outrage Case:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTc5WDExMDM=/z/fCkAAOxyoA1RTt4q/$T2eC16N,!yEE9s5jE,jcBRTt4p3vKQ~~60_35.JPG
Do you think that Ian Murray put Yes stickers on his office doors and windows, phoned the local press to say his office had been vandalised and waited for the inevitable “cybernats accused” story to appear in the national press?
It also strikes me that that tweet was posted just before 10am….journalists were there “hours ago”….How early does he get to the office to have time to report it to journalists for them to come out and look into it?
The stench is getting stronger and stronger!
Poor Ian Murray, he can never play Pontoon again
You have 12
TWIST!
you have 16
TWIST!
you have 20
TWIST!
you have 26
TWIST!!
I think that if Mr Murray can’t take a good stickering then he is in the wrong job.
Isn’t that right, Mr Davidson?
Imagine voting for a man that got upset by a small sticker.
I still think the biggest part of this story is that Murray was bitching about a couple of stickers (allegedly) being stuck on his office, while the front doors have remained unrepaired after being vandalised probably at least two years ago.
What are his office expenses and why didn’t he spend some of that on a painter?
What does it say about his care and concern for his constituency that he was content to leave visible graffiti for that length of time?
Why is a sticker or two something to get riled up about when the doors were already in a shocking condition?
How about adding the questions are you intending claiming on your insurance to have the damage repaired?
and did you know that making a statement that is even partially incorrect when making an insurance claim can be classed as fraud
So we have now gone from vandalism to putting a few stickers on a wall. To my mind putting a sticker on a wall while technically fly posting is perfectly innocent. However even that didn’t happen. In fact nothing has happened other than in the imagination of the small brain of Mr Murray. No doubt Mr Murray will say the stickers were removed before the photos were taken. Despicable that members of parliament can tell open lies and get away with it. Darling is at it again in the Scotsman with his cybernats stuff.I am in an office team of 10 people where I am the only yes supporting member. I have to put up with a daily attacks despite the fact that I don’t actively talk about my personal views in here. Others see it as an affront that someone thinks differently from them and feel they need to challenge me. Despite the fact that I leave them to their own beliefs other than to defend myself when an unsolicited challenge comes my way. That’s the no side for you. They just can’t accept a difference of opinion and leave the person alone. They feel they need to cure you of your illness or educate you on how crapp your nation is without mother England. I stand up for my country they denigrate it. I know who is right and that’s all I need to know.
You missed out one important question.
Were these alleged stickers, Labour for Independence or just Yes stickers?
Worse than Waterdoor.
Does this *ahem* brave member of parliament not understand the basic principles of attaching YES stickers to anything?
Anyone who goes out on a cyber sticker attack has something he does have…standards! He *ahem* ‘claims’ to be a member of the party of the people for the people yet he quite happily walks through the YES door of the voting lobby in Westminster hand in hand with his Tory counterpart to vote FOR a Benefit cap. This Benefit cap will ATTACK hundreds of his very own constituents.
Meanwhile back in the REAL world the secret cyber sticker uppers, who have high standards, would never put any sticker on his office. The general appearance of his office is so down market. Putting a sticker anywhere on his office would bring the HIGH standard of the YES sticker DOWN! No sticker upper worth their salt would go anywhere near that shoddy office, it is a disgrace! Anyone who is worth their salt would be too embarrassed to step inside that office past those totally shoddy painted doors.
Quite laughable.
Under any other circumstances, and I would not be advocating this in any way, but his office may not be recognisable for Wings, Yes Scotland, LFI, WFI etc etc stickers by tomorrow morning.
Pics or it didn’t happen! 😉
badges? badges? we don’t see no stinking badges!
I note that it wasn’t a journalist but journalists that went to view this depraved act of wanton destruction. Were there camera crews? Did CNN attend?
What a complete and utter shower of Muppets. 🙂
This is a stick-up
To be honest it sounds like Murray and his sidekick Roden are trying to provoke a sticker attack.
I wouldn’t entertain the twisted soulless wee creeps. His hideous green doors can stay hideous without the adornment of our lovely positive Yes stickers.
dammit, didnt realise there were cc cameras in the vicinity, i guess i shall have to go on the run now but i will not be taken alive, i vow to continue stickering upto 18 sept.
yours, jack the sticker.
Hard times, we’re all in it together.
I dunno about Edinburgh, but here in Fife if you’ve got a property that looks empty like that, with unremoved graffiti etc, you can expect to get a 200% council tax bill to encourage you to fix it up and sell!
onzebill
There was a post from one of Ronnies friends the other day to say that he had computer issues and he hoped to get back online soon.
O/T a little.
I’ve had a few spats with this guy/group on twitter, but I was just directed to their funding page by a friend for a laugh. I think their side lacks commitment. Enjoy.
Sorry if it’s been posted before. I’d not seen it.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/stronger-united
The implication of the tweet that said “journalists” had checked it out was that the truth was now certain because of the unquestioned honesty and integrity of “journalists”. Some may be churlish enough to reject that inference, but I ask any such people to think again
“Journalists” did indeed check it out: people with cameras and everything went and looked and they “reported” the facts on Wings: and other people did the background research to stand the story up. That is what “journalists” do, and that is indeed what was done. They didn’t report any stickers, though…..
None of you actually added any stickers while you were there reporting on the incident. Did you? Thought not!
I think you are being generous by suggesting YES stickers were involved. He would not have removed them without photographs. He simply made up a story hoping for some negative press.
He lied.
Hard to believe a posse of journalists would show up to report on a few stickers on a door. I suspect Roden may be lying in his teeth, but he has given Murray a fig-leaf to hide behind.
If one or more did show up, perhaps attracted by Murray’s tweet and hoping for material to support a “nasty cybernats” piece, it’s inconceivable they wouldn’t have snapped whatever they found. These people photograph first and decide not to use it later.
So either the whole story is completely made up, or someone is sitting on some snaps of a couple of stickers that are way too innocuous to be put into the public domain. My own view is that it’s all made up.
RevStu asks, “Why, indeed, did Mr Murray not take pictures himself…?”
Perhaps because he feared that they’d be washed out by over-exposure.
Re point 8. If the supposed nasty nat vandal is a taxpayer then a portion of the tax they pay goes to subsidise this office. Surely as a partial owner of this property said tax payer (if they are) is perfectly entitled to do whatever they so wish to redecorate this office?
Ian Murray fabricates a story about supposed evil-cyber-nattery and hopes the unionist press picks it up and runs with it.
We know the graffiti was real, but were the stickers and the journalists?
I am very concerned by this evil act of terrorism and the terrible effect it appears to have had on Mr Murray, however, I am sure he can put the costs of the PTSD treatment on his expenses…
@Desimond
I think you’ll find that “Watchtower” is a Sally Ann production.
The imagery, however, is still with me :-/
Alan Roden is in trouble to.
If the journalists are not real, who invented them – Murray or Roden?
PTSD – Post Traumatic Sticker Disorder
themadmurph
They seem to be struggling for funding, wonder why they are asking for donations in USD, maybe they know something about the future value of the pound and they are not wishing to share with the great unwashed!!!
themadmurph
Just felt a twinge of schadenfreude there; nothing that won’t pass 🙂
I was shocked to see that for $35 you are given the perk of a Flower of Scotland sticker.
How irresponsible is that?
Some poor soul could be on the receiving end of it.
themadmurph
Where do “Stronger United” play and what league are they in?
Only asking because I think if they ever meet Rangers the fans are going to be confused…again.
Jim T.
O/T the Watchtower is Jehovah, War Cry is Sally.
R. Stanton Avery invented the the self-adhesive label, or sticker in 1935. He set up a company to produce these stickers called Kum Kleen Products – I kid you not.
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/22/business/r-stanton-avery-90-inventor-and-producer-of-self-sticking-labels.html
Perhaps it is time for Ian Murray to Kum Kleen about him inventing a nasty cybernat story.
“My constituency office was vandalised …” Ian Murray MP
Now is not the time for fantastical hyperbole, but I can’t help but reflect that when God created stickers he had no criminal intent in mind.
Direct Line insurance have a less clear statement on all this at http://www.directline.com/home-insurance/advice/vandalism
“According to the Home Office Crime Reduction site vandalism or criminal damage applies to a crime in which any person without lawful excuse intentionally or recklessly destroys any property belonging to another. Accidental damage or activities resulting in non-permanent damage (i.e. damage that can be rectified, cleaned off or removed at no cost) such as letting down of car tyres are not classified as criminal damage or vandalism”
As an X Sticker I do hope I haven’t been implicated in this heinous crime.
I only ever stick X’s in Yes boxes.
Murray’s office doors were conspicuously vandalised probably about 2 years ago or maybe even more. The damage was inexpertly and partially painted over with a non-matching paint, which has then been allowed to fade, flake and wear away so that the original damage is embarrasingly obvious.
He very obviously doesn’t care about the appearance of the neighbourhood. His office is scruffy and poorly maintained. But he throws out a random tweet about vandalism by Yes supporters and just expects everyone to be outraged on his say-so.
I don’t even believe in the stickers, as nobody seems to have photographed them and they weren’t there by the time the Wings witness showed up.
I don’t believe in journalists who don’t photograph what they came to photograph, even if it turns out to be a storm in a teapot. So if they really did go to his office, and there really were stickers, they would be able to prove it.
Watch Roden back-pedalling when asked for the evidence.
I note that Stronger United have conceded that the battle to retain the £ has been lost since they are fundraising in $…
Ian Murray voted for George Osborne’s latest attack on the poor on 25th March.
He must be struggling on his £66,396 a year salary as according to the Edinburgh Evening News, on 6th November he claimed the highest amount of any Lothian MP for his energy bill of over £747.
The Edinburgh South Labour MP claimed a total of £181,840 in expenses, on top of his salary, including the third highest amount in the UK for his Constituency Office at £26,593 which is crazy as since Devolution Scottish MPs have fewer responsibilities than English MPs. (Office rented from the former disgraced MP Nigel Griffiths)
The Office expenses don’t include his staff salaries amounting to £121,430 which also provides extra household income by employing his partner as a secretary. No wonder these Westminster MPs are so hostile to Scottish self determination as it will end their London gravy train.
http://www.parliamentary-standards.org.uk/ViewAnnualisedTransactionalData.aspx
Contrast this with the expenses claimed by the local MSP Jim Eadie for the same period.
As an MSP he receives a salary of £58,000. His staff wages will be around £40,000 per annum and office costs plus other expenses came to a total of £19,401 for the same period.
So there we have it an MP who costs taxpayers £248,00 or a local MSP who costing taxpayers less than half that amount at £120,000 therefore voters in Edinburgh South and elsewhere should decide which representative gives better value for money.
Vote YES in September and save £40 million a year on the Westminster gravy train.
If anyone has Alex Thomson’s contact details at Channel 4 News can you please tell him not to catch the flight from Kabul to Edinburgh.
I don’t think “stickergate” has any legs.
Oooohh ……. look ………. a sticker!
@ themadmurph
Stronger united’s two gallery images.
The Forth bridge one is an abomination IMO.
The Benefits of the Union one is laughable not only because it incorrectly includes the totally independent Scottish NHS and, gosh, I will miss the BBC, GCHQ, FCO, etc.!
Morag
He’s justifying his expense claim for a new paint job in advance.
“Labtory MP Comes Under Fire £50,000 Paint Job
After we at the unbiased Mail done some investigation however.We discovered that the heinous nationalists destroyed his constituency office with separatist slogans of the most disgusting nature.We are now fully committed to identifying these reprehensible individuals and making them reimburse the MP,out their own pocket,for his reasonable expense of B&Q gloss and Basics paintbrush.
My banana was vandalised. It had a little sticker on it.
Tyran – the weren’t Fifers were they?
Regarding stickers, it’s like that old joke:
Q: “What’s brown and sticky?”
A: “I don’t know, but Ian Murray’s career is taking the same route.”
TYRAN
Aye,y’canny trust they Fyffers.
What are his office expenses and why didn’t he spend some of that on a painter?
I’ve done some checking on Mr Murray’s office expenses Morag and found these are what he claims under professional services.
Gully cleaning and repair
Renewal of Data Protection Register Licence
Faulty heater replacement
Replacement of hot water heater
window cleaning (x2)
I do not see anything here that covers decoration/re-decoration of his office/front door. Total claimed for all his claims during this period is £19,205.19 with £814.64 specifically claimed for professional services.
For the period 2012-2013 his claims for professional services were:
Fire Extinguisher annual service
Electrical Fault Repair
Data Protection Annual Renewal
Drain blockages during wet weather
window cleaning (x3)
Yet again there are no claims for the decoration/ re-decoration of his office or front door. His claim for 2012-2013 came to £26,950.04 with £1,263.06 claimed specifically for professional services.
For the year 2011-2012 he claimed for these professional services:
Newspapers to year end
Waste sacks for year
Newspaper for Q1
Collection and Delivery of Ink Cartridges
Setting up of recycling facilites
recycling
Waste to end 2011
Fire extinguisher annual service
Newspapers
Clearance of waste
recycling and confidential waste
Leaking roof repair
Newspapers to 19/11
Trade Waste
Office newspapers
Newspapers for 15/05-16/07
Trade Waste to 30.06
window cleaning (x7)
Again there is no mention of his office or front door being redecorated. His claim for the period 2011-2012 was £23,966.72 of which £1,838.18 was claimed for professional services.
Each year runs from April till March and you can check out any M.P. and their expenses here.
http://tinyurl.com/p6zv5la
Why phone a journalist naw police?
Had a look at Ian Murray’s website. He has published a “constituents contract” don’t you know:
http://www.ianmurraymp.co.uk/contract.html
Some interesting points:
“Ian Murray MP acknowledges all letters from constituents and endeavours to secure a speedy response”
“I will always be open and honest and act with transparency and integrity as a Member of Parliament.”
“My office at 31 Minto Street is on Edinburgh’s busiest bus route and is staffed from 9am to 5pm every weekday.”
“I have to travel from my home in Edinburgh to London whenever Parliament is sitting. Leaving after Monday’s constituency advice session, I almost always return in time for my constituency advice session on Friday.”
The last paragraph tends to suggest that Murray would be at Westminster at the time of the vandalism, and he tweeted details at 1.38am on 1 April. If he was out of town, did someone else actually find the stickers? Did the stickers get stuck on after the office was closed at 5pm? if so, who found the stickers? What did they do about it? Did they phone Ian or did they phone the police? Why do they suspect Yes voters?
With regard to the previous damage as depicted on the photos taken yesterday, was this act of vandalism reported? If so, what was the outcome?
@Seasick Dave
I’d love a Flower of Scotland sticker!!
Murray is just a Labour liar! Labour are angry because they didn’t think that a no vote would be difficult to get. They are panicking! They can see their futures going down the pan! I suspect that there will be lots more INCIDENTS like this and worse. They will do anything to keep feeding in the trough. Vote YES!
“Put your hands up, this is a cock-up.”
“Don’t you mean stick-up?”
“No, there are no stickers. That’s why it’s a cock-up.”
According to this link via the Guardian, Ian Murray’s Constituency Office Expenses were the 2nd highest out of all the MPs (beaten only by Ian Paisley Jnr)
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2013/sep/12/full-list-mps-expenses-ipsa-data-interactive-2013
Yet he still can’t get his doors painted properly?
ive seen YES,YES stickers soho
Could they possibly did themselves any deeper into this hole they’ve created?
Would it be fair to say that no matter where these lying barstewards offices are in Scotland, they are never more than half an hour away from the intrepid WoS redoubtables who can check out, and lay bare, any subsequent spurious claims against so-called ‘Yes vandals’?
Anybody got any NO stickers?
@Arbroath 1320
An awful lot of waste in there!
Breaking News
Police Scotland have a suspect in the Ian Murray vandalism case:
http://i.imgur.com/f1FWPcY.jpg
I am told he is from the Morningside Cybernat Chapter (Motto: “You’ll have had your Union”).
SNP puts forward a Bill under 10 minute rule.
I suppose this is from asap after 18th Sept. Not sure I agree with that. Nearly two years of negotiation to get through. I want any Scottish MP’s to be there in HoC looking after the interests of Scotland right to the end.
They don’t have to concern themselves about rUK legislation but are entitled to chip in if it’s to do with Scotland.
More details to follow I expect..:-(
http://archive.is/TQ2r1
I’d just like to take this opportunity to thank the hapless,trough eating MP for providing us with so much amusement/bemusement.
Cameron in the Commons today:
“I will take a lecture from almost anyone in the country about the sale of Royal Mail but not from the two muppets who advised the last chancellor on selling the gold”.
Better Together?
Seems it’s from 2016 date…’Herald’… Why the bill then?
Does anyone have a timeline so far for Stickergate?
SquareHaggis says:
Anybody got any NO stickers?
I think Mike Weir might have a couple he can let you have S.H. 😛
http://tinyurl.com/pmfnybr
Albamac says:
@Arbroath 1320
An awful lot of waste in there!
Aye well there’s an awful lot of *ahem* proof to get rid of isn’t there? 😛
Brilliant Calgacus, 😛
Meanwhile the state broadcaster is running non stop adverts about a debate between a nonentity and an irrelevance.
One leads a party with no MP’s. and the other soon to lead a party with no MP’s.
Set your recorders in advance for fear of missing out.
This is a tebbirle story. Absolutely diriculous.
@call me dave
The Scotsman story also says “Independence day” not referendum day.
I think it’s a ruse to put those Scottish BT MP’s on the spot, do they want to hear the more rapid right wing tory MP saying “Scotland should go now, the sooner the better”?
Maybe he could hang that lovely union jacket of his up in the window,
along wi a row of those matching mugs nobody wants from his crowd-funder.
Then stand back and watch them $$$’s rolling in 🙂
O/T but shows its always worth looking behind unionist stuff with this very hard all Scots teens vote No CiF in Guardian today. Usual stuff but then someone looks for the whole and original article published 6 months ago and its laugh out loud what the Guardian’s cut from the original. If you’re out there Albannach, nice one!
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/02/independence-referendum-historic-young-scots-scotland?commentpage=2 “The Guardian, attacking democracy in Scotland since ever…”
@Gillie says
PTSD – Post Traumatic Sticker Disorder
ACE ! 😀
Murray is going got come unstuck over this stickeratti saga.
EFF EFF Sake …going to…
kendomacaroonbar – deep breath and then ………. breathe out – repeat until calm. : D
@ TJenny
Ah cannae cope…. this spell sticker is getting on mah moobs …:-(
So what happens if someone covered his door with Better Together stickers, would that be considered as advertising?
kendomacaroonbar – relax, all will be well, as there will be no spell stickers in an indy Scotland.
Stickers are a pain in the arse to remove properly (unless we are dealing with a vandal considerate enough to use low tac stickers) and given the state of that door I doubt the effort was put in. If there were stickers then there should still be evidence of their stickiness.
I bet they’ll blame Bill Posters… he’s always in the frame for this kinda thing.
Yesterday man.
O/T.
The FT has come up trumps again, allegedly.
A currency union would be best for all of Britain
http://archive.is/p5yiw
Then there’s this?
The real cause for unionist unionist concern
http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/04/01/the-real-cause-for-unionist-concern/?Authorised=false
I can’t get past the paywall, but if someone can?
waste of guid stickers!
seriously if you are distributing these within the area
near a unionist would be politicians office please ask that they do not stick them on his door. it can obviously cause severe mental anguish. Poor wee soul. So easily upset.
It wasnt that a couple of weeks ago when lamp posts throughout Bo’ness were covered in BT stickers. Quarter of an hour and a couple of broken finger nails and you would never know they had been there. oops I just thought of something I didn’t take picture of these offending objects so maybe they were a figment of MY iagination
@alexicon
http://archive.is/WRgv0
Section 52 of Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995. Legislation for vandalism. It is an offence for any person to wilfully or recklessly destroy or damage the property of another without reasonable excuse.
Does placing of stickers quantify the above charge?? I have sincere doubts!!
“I will always be open and honest and act with transparency and integrity as a Member of Parliament.”
That was his April fools day joke right?
Rooster – when removing stickers from anything a squirt of Pledge will take it off cleanly, note it must be Pledge Mr Sheen doesn’t work the same.
@Desimond and @Ronnie Cowan
sorry folks, not having a good day as far as accuracy of recall is concerned. Must be the lack of tea/coffee/rum 🙁
Of course War Cry is Sally and Watchtower is JW – just indicates my level of belief awareness.
cynicalHighlander
Thank you for posting that.
Sounds like an inside job to me, a false flag scenario, or maybe Ian Murray is secretly a YES supporter, and if this is what passes for news in the Daily Mail, then Mr Dacre better get his finger out and write about something worth reading.
If the Daily Mail are defending him its obviously a complete fabrication.
Thanks cynicalHighlander, I tried archive, but it still come up with the paywall.
Interesting reading and it does give an incite into the negatives sides fear.
It’s not working for them and it may give some reasoning why they’ve started to come after the cybernats again.
Maybe we’ll see the daily malice with a nice wee feature again.
I bet they’ll blame Bill Posters… he’s always in the frame for this kinda thing.
Is Bill any relation to Walter Wall, the carpet salesman? He didn’t make any sales though, apparently you need a flair for it.
@alexicon
couldn’t find that particular blog but, the FT is looking for panel members to comment on the independence debate http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2014/03/would-you-like-to-be-part-of-our-reader-panel-on-scottish-independence/
O/T
All that chatter about nukes after the ‘leak’ at the weekend, then this:
Secret talks on future of Britain’s nuclear arsenal
• UK’s nuclear arsenal relies on US components
• Nature, cost, and timing, of new warheads will also depend on US
http://www.theguardian.com/world/defence-and-security-blog/2014/apr/02/nuclear-weapons-warheads-trident
@alexicon
One has a limit to view per month to get round this post url into google, remove ‘registration=false’ at the end then re-copy that url from list given and paste into archive should do the trick.
Just been reading Murray’s response tweeted to Alan Roden. Apparently his staff removed the offending stickers,and he informed the Chief Inspector no less by email in an informal basis. His staff will now have a visit from a special unit to teach them how to respond to such attacks. Not quite sure how that works, my tip about Pledge is a lot less expensive than a visit from the police. The man has no shame.
O/T.
Ed Miliband is accusing Alex Salmond of being in the pockets of the big six energy firms, even though when Labour were last in power, energy bills rose by 60%, and Ed Miliband was energy minister and did nothing to help the public.
Alistair Darling has come out and said securing a no vote, will be the pinnacle of his career, Darling was visiting White House products in Port Glasgow, who employ 22 people, and the firm said they’re planning to move south if Scots vote yes.
Poverty levels in Labour constituencies
Willie Bain Labour MP 43%
Anas Sarwar Labour MP 37%
Margaret Curran Labour MP 35%
All three MP’s voted last week to increase child poverty in Scotland by by backing a cap on welfare. Ed Miliband ordered Labour MP’s to back the governments cap on welfare. Labour shadow chancellor Ed Balls even boasted it was his idea in the first place.
All above stories found in the Daily Record
Let’s crowdfund a bottle of turps for the puir wee soul.
My son’s bedroom is a disaster area so I have threatened him with a Panini sticker if he doesn’t clear it up.
Should do the trick.
I think the point missed here is that after the decent press information sites like Wings etc picked up recently the No campain has stepped up it’s attempts to discredit these sources of information and persuade the undecided from visiting these sites, only today I was fielding a couple of questions about currency and the EU I mentioned this site as a place to go for well reasoned answers but one reaction was “not those internet nutters”.
*campaign* sorry.
Door gate?
Pat
With due respect to Wings, in future if you get such a reaction get them to try Business for Scotland for economic facts and they are on Telly.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/whats-that-secret-youre-keeping/#comments
It really is a slow news day when we spend our time arguing whether applying a sticker to a window is a criminal offence.
I’ll bet all this seemed like a good idea at the time.
😉
Looking at the photographs taken last night and published on wings whatever happened to his office was not vandalism!
Might I suggest a minor nuisance, instead?
These Unionist politicians make me laugh ,he says the debate is getting poisonous .
Yes because people like him Darling ,Brian Wilson Foulkes etc telling lies and trying to stir up strife when there is none.
Post Mar 2016 these men are making life very difficult for themselves.
People will not quickly forget this nonsense and ridiculous behaviour.
I’ve just read what Labour MP Ian Murray has put up on his blog about the (non existent) ‘vandalism’ to which he referred in his tweet yesterday.
I’ll make 4 points;
Actually I was going to, but I won’t. There is only one point needs made:
1. Seriously though, a grown man getting upset about stickers?? FFS!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga 🙂
This is crying out for some crowdsourcing.
We chip in, buy some paint and send down a smiling helpful Wings Team to make that door look luvvly-jubbly!
ATOS can assess each candidate to tell them if their are up to the Task. Anyone not passed as fit for work can discuss Bedroom tax and other Benefit issues with the nice MP.
@Robert Louis
Imagine how his Secretary feels every time they reach for the post-it pad!
With regards to the “update”, my 6 yr old son plastered stickers all over the outside of his bedroom door. I don’t like them, they are unsightly. Since the door in fact belongs to me, should I phone the police and ask them to arrest him for vandalizing my door?
Come on Rev…you know it makes sense..
http://www.imagemakergraphics.com/post-it-notes/index.html
Desimond
Happy to do it, so long as I get a pay slip and it takes less than 16hrs to complete. 🙂
Glasgow City always consider the cone on the Duke of Wellington’s head to be ‘vandalism’. I do personally get a bit annoyed with stickers from fans of certain football clubs being plastered around Glasgow city center, but those stickers are an eyesore, not vandalism. I would, of course, blow my top if any put union jack stickers on my house or car, but I might feel more kind if they were ‘smiley’ faces. I’m not sure how such a positive thing as the word ‘yes’ could be intimidating, but if it’s to be used in the context of saying ‘this has gone too far’, then pictures should be taken (and presented)…
Just read his justification,well his attempt at slur..ok,his outright embarrassment.
Still ROFLHMS,lucky I can even type this!
It’s difficult to miss the fact that when given plenty of opportunity to provide evidence of criminal acts on the part of YES supporters that Ian Murray MP completely failed to do so. That’s on top of the fact he openly acknowledges on his Twitter account that his claim of criminality has produced an enormous amount of public interest and internet traffic.
@Call me Dave
Kudos to the SNP MP Angus McNeil for saying this in his Bill submission…
“It would be wrong for Scottish MPs and their staff to be employed here when their constituents have moved on and become a successful Scotland with an oil fund in the same model of Norway.”
These kind of attacks are disgraceful and are happening everywhere from both sides. Just today I saw three cars which had been defaced with UKOK stickers on their rear windscreen.
What’s worse is these vandals seem to be targeting the most miserable, humourless people in the community.
Which journalists “checked this out”? How many? Why aren’t they named? Were any of them from the Scottish Daily Mail? Why didn’t they take any pictures?
[No journalists attended the scene. Mr Murray told them what he alleges happened and they took him at his word.]
Of course they would take Murray at his word 😀 😀 The MSM in Scotland really are corrupt.
Rodent has it in for the nasty cybernats.
https://twitter.com/AlanRoden/status/451300300851146752/photo/1
Rev can you not sue the knuckledraggers for breach of copyright?
Looks like your an alien. Ha ha ha.
https://twitter.com/StrongerUnited1
Annan Urrahing @ 2.48
If you’re going to tell jokes like that, one of us has to change their name.
Alexicon
Who did “Stronger United”score against?
Hope it wasn’t Rangers….they’ll be totally baffled who cheer for.
i thought I had cringed as much as I would today, sadly I was so very wrong. The sheer conniving GIRFUY dripping through this article, perpetuated by Stirling Council, has me feeling totally disgusted with some of our countryfolk.
http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/arts/news/stirling-armed-forces-day-events-unveiled-1-3362263
Sorry did I say “Rodent” I meant Roden.
Has everybody got their false moustaches and beards for the paparazzi on Friday night?
Caw cannie Alexicon ye’ll upset Patrick!
Desimond, the better together mob seem to think they have a monopoly on the armed forces.
I hope some of us go to armed forces day and show our troops that ‘YES’ also supporter the troops.
O/T Take a look at this, as Stirling unveils a so called spectacular day for armed services, quick pass the sick bucket.
http://www.armedforcesday.org.uk/news/news_2013/stirlinglaunch.aspx#
No update of posts for me since 16:20. DDOS again?
Rev
What happened? A 503 error message came up about ten minutes ago.The sites just came back up minus the link to Murrays reply and all posts after 4:26 removed.
It’s alright,panic over,everything back to normal.
I just got on a minute ago. Something up?
Andy B. have you seen the ONLY flags you can buy?
http://www.armedforcesday.org.uk/supporting/buy_afd_goodies.aspx
Conan
Just a blip.
@Desimond
@Alexicon
@Andy-B
Re Armed Forces Day. This is a bit out of date but worth a read.
http://www.clans2014.com/bannockburn-and-armed-forces-day-a-clash-or-conspiracy/
RE Scotsman article and armed forces day.
http://archive.is/Jpprl
Military chiefs who attended the launch of the event at Stirling Castle insisted there was no question that the event had been deliberately timed to clash with the Bannockburn event.
Am I reading that right?
Want to know what the cctv saw?
Easy but be quick. Put in a freedom of information request for the footage. £10.
Be quick mind.
O/T Rev, I don’t if you know about this guy but he’s posted several accusation against you, on his facebook site he sound a real cracker.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Alex-Salmond-is-a-deluded-wanker-/133345880093748
scrolled through 177 posts just to say “whit a baw bag”.
http://ianmurraymp.wordpress.com/2014/04/02/lets-have-a-reasoned-debate-based-on-fact/ is a long winded whine but why did they not take any photos of this nightmare sticker attack for future evidence/investigations etc and to show on his internet thingee here? Very weird.
This clown really needs to get a grip. Talk about attention seeking!
So, he got stickered …aw diddums!
If he keeps up this nonsense, then I think his constituents will be scouting around for a new candidate…
If Ian Murray had tweeted, ‘Yes stickers on my windows, damned nuisance for my staff’, but he choose to go for the much more hyped and sinister ‘vandalism’ approach to make it fit with his narrative of abuse.
He continues it in his explanation. A straightforward tactic, but he hadn’t expected to be called out on his account in the first place.
Perhaps someone has a newspaper cutting covering his response when the door was really vandalised a couple of years ago.
andy b looks like stronger united from twitter he is a baw bag
Scottish Skier
Military chiefs who attended the launch of the event at Stirling Castle insisted there was no question that the event had been deliberately timed to clash with the Bannockburn event.
Am I reading that right?
No, mate …and they’ve even emphasised that there will be twice as many folk at their event than there will be at the Bannockburn Live event (apparently 50,000 …I’m assuming that their including everybody who lives in Stirling as actually being at the event. Yep …we Agnes got a great view from her kitchen window 7 miles away).
They had years to do this …but of all the days it had to fall on …they had to land it right on the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn.
Andy-B,
LoL someone has a serious problem with Alex Salmond.
I wonder if it’s OBE?
Did you read that Mr Roden?
No, mate… ….AAAARGH ….should be ‘Yes, mate’. Rev …bring back the ‘Edit’ function.
“I can take personal abuse but it’s getting out of control.” is a long long way to “I said clearly that the vandalism incident was minor but that I was reporting it informally as I was getting increasingly concerned at the poisonous nature of the referendum and whilst I was happy to take all the personal abuse that is levied on twitter, via email and in person I would not subject my staff to such abuse.”
So minor unproven vandalism today was “its getting out of control” yesterday.
What abuse is Mr Murray not subjecting his staff to though? or just more unionist bleh.
Did his original post not have a photo of the green door attached, or did I make that up?
Cut to the chase, he’s a lying twat.
Just read that Daily Mail article about evil cybernats. When online I always try to make a point of not using abusive language, and I don’t hide behind a fake facebook account. I have numerous screenshots recording abuse hurled at me, some of it verging on threats and hate-crime from BT which I’d be more than happy to share with the Daily Mail if they’re interested in balance and honest journa……..oops what am I talking about, no such thing as an honest daily mail journalist.
I’m proud of the cybernat label.
Passing the Yes Scotland offices in Glasgow yesterday I saw what appeared to be a pro-union sticker stuck on their window. I think it says a lot for the maturity of the Yes campaign compared to the childishness of the No camp that nothing was made of this by Yes.
Although anybody could get a few Yes stickers and put them on a door. Its a wonder Alan Roden or Ian Murray didn’t just do this to make the Yes campaign look bad.
The press did not send anyone round to take pictures.
so he’s saying Peres went there just to look?
press
Andy-B
Have reported that page as hate speech to fb
Rev they just f*ckin hate the fact that you reside in Bath they get a wee dig about it all the time, one minute it’s better together we need to support the folk in Manchester, Motherwell etc but then they can’t stand the fact that a Scotsman lives in Bath. It’s not as if they precede every mention of the Tories with where they live eg London based dickheid Cameron said..
Ian Murray knew exactly what he was doing when he tweeted about vandalism. I do not condone placing stickers anywhere but Murray tried to get maximum attention by calling it vandalism.The rev is quite right not to take down the blog.
Oh and by the way Edinburgh will be totally Vandalised during the festival once the fly posters get to work.
Murray was at Westminster today telling Call me Dave and the rest about the horrific accident at Liberton High School. My Great niece is in Keane,s year and very upset . I was one of the first pupils at that school and I remember that wall! We are upset . Something churned in my stomach when I heard Murray at Westminster . He is actually Politicising this dreadful accident! Disgraceful!
O/T
Ladies and gents, I do wish you would start taking your used heroin needles home with.
BBC Scotland’s very own Anti-Independence detective, Eleanor Bradford is out and about on the hunt for used heroin needles in a town near you.
And she’s found hunners.
Even two outside a Scottish Government building.
All stories on Reporting Scotland tonight were,
SNP Bad,
The Rest Good
I noticed Ian Murray tried to angle in the tragedy of the young girl at the school. Cynical attempt.
I’m sure he will continue to try to work on that.
Stick it to ’em Stu!
Nice one Stu – they are just desperately grubbing about in the underqrowth for anything to hold on to in their ever decreasing tenous finger nail clawing for survival.
Perhaps we, as a mark of good faith and gesture of atonement, we should offer to have his doors painted for him.
Perhaps it could even have it’s own crowd sourcing page, come on, quid each, hire a propper decorator.
@ Alfresco Dent, agreed but he’s illiterate too, as in how the feck do you “levy” the abuse MP Murray bizarre blog/whinge states, “whilst I was happy to take all the personal abuse that is levied on twitter”
Is this a new Slab tax on cybernats, the big chump.
@a2 – Sorry think I’ll pass on that one as I would rather shite in his lobby than paint his doors
Can you imagine the way the press would have reacted if this indeed was an snp mp making the same allegations. The mp in question would have been vilified and called every conceivable name under the sun.
Flower of scotland – My old school as well (1980’s )I ‘m sure you know that’s the third incident at the school in the last 12 months. The pupil who feel down a lift shaft, the boy who died playing football and now this. Murray at PMQ’s because that’s where his real interests lie. A real MP would’ve went home to see and make sure council do a proper investigation and make sure HSE are involved. In addition a pupli had already reported to the school the state of that wall. Someone is responsible for making the call that the wall was safe. They deserve a kicking.
Not wanting to get all tin foil hat on this,
But was the “evidence” photo on Murrays website taken from inside his office looking out or the outside looking in?
It’s the road marking that are throwing me…..are they a reflection on the glass?
The alleged sticker looks like a home made effort, using those self-adhesive paper address labels. Not terribly sticky.
ANYWAY. Let me get this straight – this story is about a Labour MP attempting to concoct a story of abuse by members of the public who happen to support a differing view on one issue, and to do this he contacted The Daily Mail for assistance. It was so pathetic that even they refused to sex it up into any sort of story.
Is that about right? *shakes head in disbelief*
Stu
can you give the exact timeline from twitter
my times seem mixed up as the post looks to have been posted approx 1am in the morning
I think this is my bad bad evil pooter
??? can someone post proper timeline and also stu when did your pal go take photos? exact time if possible
thanks
Ananurhing says
“These kind of attacks are disgraceful and are happening everywhere from both sides. Just today I saw three cars which had been defaced with UKOK stickers on their rear windscreen.”
THREE!
where the hell were you?
Esher?
What stupid man.
First he alleges vandalism, which most people do think of as quite a serious matter. Mr Murray is a politician, and as such he is very aware of the power of words and of the implications of particular juxtapositions. So there is no way this could have been accidental hyperbole. He knew what he was doing and he knew that it was likely to escalate division and bitterness.
Then to his shame, when called on it, he used two other reprehensible tactics. First he says he had not time to answer the challenge, because he was busy with other matters. We know what he hopes we will think he was doing and his coyness does not change that: it reinforces it. What he was actually doing may be characterised in different ways, as Flower of Scotland points out above: but I will give him the benefit of the real doubt there. The fact remains that he uses implication again to suggest that this internet stuff is quite trivial in the scheme of things: which is rich coming from the man who began it. Second he hides behind the “Women and children” defence. He was not concerned for himself but for his staff, who have been subjected to “abuse”. Since when did statements like “vote X” constitute “abuse”? Since when did having to remove a few stickers constitute “abuse”? Again we see the careful “abuse” of words and the aim is as usual: people will forget what actually happened, but they will remember that word and it will colour their views when the incident has faded to opinion. Or so he hopes. With some reasonable justification, for he has his media pals to help with more stories of this sort, all of which will no doubt make reference to this one in passing and without detail. Thus is opinion shaped.
And he also makes great play of “inaccuracies” in the blog post, again implying that the eebil cybernats are not to be trusted, though nobody can be in any doubt who is the untrustworthy person here. Not today. Though again he hopes that the facts will be forgotten over time
It is trivial in one sense: but in terms of drip feed effect it not trivial at all.
This man is a disgrace to his office and to his party and to his position on the debate
“It was not right that they had to clean these stickers off the windows and doors yesterday and it is not right that they have to work in such an environment. The Chief Inspector agreed and has arranged for my office to have a crime prevention survey done to best protect my staff.”
Do the Edinburgh Police not have better things to do than “best protect my staff” from one fake sticker Mr Murray? Must be great being a cop in Embro.
No photos.
No stickers.
No journalists
No vandalism.
No apology.
StickerGate sure has produced a shitstorm that has all blown back in the faces of Murray and Roden.
More StinkGate than StickerGate now.
s an ex cop I would concur that this is “NO CRIME” if you or I reported this to the police we would be laughed at. unless maybe you were a Labor MP
@sneddon
Yeah! I do know all that but I’ve got a funny feeling , that if we were not in a referendum, Murray would have been no where to be seen! Remember Kenny Macaskill is also MP for that area.
I’m not being mean but it went all the way to Westminster! When did that last happen! He is bleating about the fact that the Councils don’t get enough money from the Scottish Gov. SO increase in council tax is needed! I can read his mind! He will politicise ANYTHING! As I said it’s disgusting!
To add: Mr Murray says the account was given without checking: well if he were talking about the Mail he would be right. But Rev Campbell did check: he phoned the office and they would not say what happened. How does Mr Murry get from a very normal way of fact checking to no checking?
I wonder if Stuart (or Stewart) is safe in his job now that it appears he is not prepared to lie for his boss?
Last few days to punt some cash to Labour for Independence. These good people are important for taking the YES campaign message into Labour heartlands. Donate whatever you can …
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/labour-for-independence-campaign
The Rev’s website looks a wee bit strange tonight, anybody else notice differences. After Ian Murray MP tweeted to the world that his offices were vandalised (with no details) by the YES campaign, attracting 40-odd re-tweets, journalists, labour activists, Better Together and Police Scotland to the issue, he now says on his blog ‘it wasn’t a story’. #moron
This puts Alan Roden in very difficult position. He has been shafted by Murray.
I wonder if Mr Murray has given any thought to what he will do for gainful employment after 24/03/16 (ma 60th burthday 🙂 )
have you considered ahem, window cleaning?
runs like hell 😉
Dont be silly, john king. Mr Murray has staff who do that…..oh, wait..
Did he call in the police?
If he did, and there’s no substance to his accusation, he has wasted police time.
If Ian Murray says he was watching the twilight zone,same time he tweeted I will forgive him
I thought this was an April Fool at first, but it looks like some of the independence campaigners in Venice are going way beyond stickers:
http://archive.is/wiorZ
Nobody be getting any ideas.
fIONA SAYS
“Dont be silly, john king.”
Please Fiona, lets not be formal call me John (smarmy grin)
@John King
I have a couple of clean-up and other janitorial franchise offers if he finds himself short.
If Croompenstein gets into the Lobby and leave what he threatened, Mr Murray may need these services.
I’ve just read this whiny, sanctimonious, poo-stirring little twonk’s blog about this. My WORD, what a pathetic wee dribble of a politician. The part that really ruled me was his self-righteous “I can cope with it because I’m am a big, strong, politician, but WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF MY POOR, DEFENCELESS STAFF?!?!” crap. That’s his staff who are paid to make him look good (or at least competent – poor folk), being asked to…remove some (at least one – any more?) stickers from their windows. My heart positively bleeds – how, indeed, are they expected to work in such a HORRIFIC environment?!?!
“I have a couple of clean-up and other janitorial franchise offers if he finds himself short.”
Ive found myself caught short in France, its not a good thing 🙁
Flower Of Scotland- Totally agree, the difference between Kenny and Ian in terms of contactability and approachability is like night and day. It shows the difference in having a MSP who lives in the aera compared to one who turns up when he has to or it suits him. WTF do ‘opposition’ MPs do wth their time when they agree with most of the tory policies and even vote for them? wasters the lot of them, Murray’s majority is only 300 odd, he’ll be oot on his arse come 2015
I see WoS has its very own ‘green door’ now (banner heading) – no stickers just the truth within.
Midnight one more night without sleepin’ –
Watchin’ till the morning comes creepin’.
Green door what’s that secret you’re keepin’?
There’s an old piano
And they play it hot
Behind the green door (Green Door)
Don’t know what they’re doin’
But they laugh a lot
Behind the green door. (Green Door)
Wish they’d let me in
So I could find out
What’s behind the green door. (Green Door)
Knocked once tried to tell ’em I’d been there
Door slammed hospitality’s thin there.
Wonder just what’s goin’ on in there.
Saw an eyeball peepin’ through a smokey cloud
Behind the green door (Green Door)
When I said Joe sent me
Someone laughed out loud
Behind the green door. (green Door)
AII I want to do is join the happy crowd
Behind the green door. (green door)
Midnight one more night without sleepin’ –
Watchin’ till the morning comes creepin’.
Green door what’s that secret you’re keepin’?
There’s an old piano and they play it hot
Behind the green door (Green Door)
Don’t know what they’re doin’
But they laugh a lot
Behind the green door. (Green Door)
Wish they’d let me in
So I could find out what’s
Behind the green door. (Green Door)
Very, VERY suspicious that there are no pictures. Surely the first thing even a brainless Labour MP or his dumb activists would do would be to take a photo for evidence to the Daily Heil or even the Police.
This has been clearly a foot-shooting lie from beginning to end. Maybe (un)co-ordinated with Darling Dear to try to big up the attacks on the dupe Bill Munro, one of their tame ‘UNDECIDED?’ business ‘leaders.’
john king said: I’ve found myself caught short in France
Same thing happened to me in Corfu – Cor-blimey more like.
And sorry I can’t join you at the Counting House this Friday as I have to be at the Sheep Heid instead. However, I shall be with you in spirit. Gin, most likely.
Major
Playing skittles, again?
yes skittles, not skitters.
Sorry to hear you wont be there Major, I as looking forward to meeting you again,
Bugger, I take it you also wont be there?
Planning to ensure your visage will be in attendance though!
@John King
Couldn’t make this one but glad my physog will be there.
BtP
@ John King
Give T Jenny a peck on the cheek from a Panda.
I’ll have a cold one for you
You heard that TJenny ,Im only following orders
A lie from start to finish. A lie that drew in a foolish journalist. A lie that requires the parties in question to keep on lying.
“I want to be clear about the facts of the situation. Having spoken to the blogger in question, I have been promised that he will publish my response and that he will correct his article for inaccuracies.”
So is this is also a huge Murray whopper? Cant see any WoS corrections needed so far, not one!
It is heartening what some people do for the cause…
youtu.be/CX2uKwHMiXM
3.The vandalism was not on the front doors as stated by the blog post.
4.The reason there was no damage or otherwise visible when the bloggers photographer went around as my staff had taken the time to clear the windows and doors of the stickers.
Still cannae get his story right.
BtW – will gladly return your x at the indy party celebrations after a YES vote. 🙂
john king – of course you have to comply with the order. : D
That should have read btw BtP .
“[Mr Murray has called for the original article to be retracted or deleted on the grounds of “inaccuracies”, although his post doesn’t appear to actually identify anything factually incorrect in it. As such we have not amended it.”
But Murray says in his blog that you “promised” stuff like “publish” his blog and “correct” your blog article for inaccuracies Reverend. Cant see any corrections needed personally so its an odd thing for Murray to say, out loud, or is that being me getting out of control?
Very, VERY suspicious that there are no pictures. Surely the first thing even a brainless Labour MP or his dumb activists would do would be to take a photo for evidence to the Daily Heil or even the Police.
Just like the smashed car windscreens that got smashed with YES bricks
FFS stickers!
Nae doubt the polis will be busy during the
Edinburgh Festival.
I can’t imagine what the polis would do if I rang
them up about someone sticking a sticker on ma windae.
In fairness, when my dementia suffering mum’s 11-stones diamond engagement ring went missing in a locked ward (of 2 patients) before it closed down at Cameron Hospital they did give me a ‘crime’ Reference Number.
What shocks me most here is that he has chosen to focus on this story in his blog today instead of addressing the tragedy in his community. It seems that “saving face” about being caught out crying “vandalism!” over a few paltry stickers posted on his office windows (perhaps even placed there by constituents he represents) is more important to him than the state of the schools in his neighbourhood and the safety of the children who attend them.
Same blog, different crap.
“Having spoken to the blogger in question, I have been promised that he will publish my response and that he will correct his article for inaccuracies. I hope that other blog sites such as Newsnet Scotland will follow suit.”
“The responses on twitter are a very sad reflection of the debate. I have asked the blogger to remove or correct the post on the basis of the above information. I hope that the blogger retracts his post, and perhaps thinks carefully about publishing unverified information in the future”
Ah so when Mr Murray sez you “promised” him something Rev what he meant was he “asked” you to do something. Promise, ask, me confused by Mr Murray MP.
Not sure if it’s a problem with rural broadband speeds, dodgy android or those pesky DDOsers, but I’ll try again.
In a nutshell I think his photo looks to be taken from inside the office. If on street-side where’s the reflection of photographer rather than sight of road markings?
Come on Mr Murray, for the sake of your constituents release the CCTV evidence of both the original ‘offence’ and of the photographer in action, both time stamped
“BtW – will gladly return your x at the indy party celebrations after a YES vote. :-)”
That you should say that TJenny
reminds me of a question the wife asked this very afternoon, that should we book an hotel room in Edinburgh for the weekending the 18th sept? I know its a bit early to organise a celebration but it (in my opinion)is a reasonable risk booking hotels now, because after a yes vote you wont get a space on the pavement on Princes Street,
It would be the party to end all parties if we could organise a celebration on the 19th sept.
So… do we just agree that Mr. Murray is a bit of a twit and assume he will not attempt to stand as a serious candidate for anything ever again?
John King
UKOK stickers.
“THREE!
where the hell were you?”
Surrey on the Tay John. I’m surrounded by UKOKERS. And to compound things, I’ve got my pals, the Faraginis from Kent arriving for a visit next week. All makes for good sport but sometimes I feel like the lone musketeer who’s pals have buggered off.
Where’s that little blue book Stu
@heraldnomore: the pic with the reflected cycle lane marking was taken from outside the left-hand side of the building, and it’s clearly at an angle from above and the side.
OK thanks Penman, the angle’s a possibility, but for some reason I find it difficult to trust anything that’s coming out here, and we know the place is c overed by CCTV
I hope Ian Murray retracts his accusation and perhaps thinks carefully about making uncorroborated allegations in the future.
Off to bed,
dont anyone try to put me off my porridge in the morning though! 😉
and would we not see some of the road markings reflected in the sticker as well? Moonlanding shots come to mind
A friend of mine was on a YES stall last week and had one of her YES ballons popped by an angry NO voter!
Maybe she should have reported this as vandalism to the police? In light of this nonsense she would have been right to.
@john king says:
should we book an hotel room in Edinburgh for the weekending the 18th sept?
It would be the party to end all parties if we could organise a celebration on the 19th sept.
The Calgacus Clan are going to be at Bloody Scotland in Stirling on 19th September.
http://www.bloodyscotland.com/
The festival opens on 19th September, and the significance of the day is understood by the organisers.
Just sayin’
🙂
By the way,the picture on his twitter site looks like poor photoshop.
Debbie, don’t worry about your pals Yes balloon… its’ the angry no voter whose bubble is going to burst. 🙂
O/T but worth a comment. I have just voted.
We went to see ‘Union’, a play at the Edinburgh Lyceum about the events of 1706/07 leading up to the Act of Union. After the performance, there is an opportunity to vote (using your ticket as a ballot paper) and the choices are “Aye”, “Naw”, or “Dinnie Ken”. I had the pleasure of voting NAW!
Of course, the choices are framed as if there were a referendum in 1707. Something along the lines of: “Should we go ahead with this proposed Act of Union?”
As I left, it looked as if NAW was narrowly in the lead.
Sorry if this is O/T and if someone has already posted, but there’s a BBC Scotland website report on the sad death of the schoolgirl and the last few sentences seem to be setting Mike Russell up for a fall. Anyone else seen this? Very odd stuff.
If anyone’s still interested in this story I’ve tried to put this whole vandalism thing into perspective here:
http://t.co/tq6TNTTHpr
Profoundly off-topic, but I really need to vent: Yashika Bageerathi has been put on a plane to Mauritius by UK government orders. Her “crime”? Being born in Mauritius, and having the audacity to claim asylum along with her family, because a relative was trying to kill them.
Despite 180,000 people signing a petition pleading for the government not to deport her, she’s on her way. Alone. To a country which cannot guarantee her safety, and certainly cannot provide her with the education she’s worked so hard on. We couldn’t get rid of Hamza and other terrorist scum, but we can easily deport a 19-year-old girl.
This is the UK in 2014. This is the political state in which we Scots are “Better Together.” Where the goodwill of scores of thousands of people is not enough to keep one exemplary student who’s broken no laws in a country purporting to be a democracy. And the sickening thing is, there are dozens of cases like Yashika’s – thousands – every. Single. Week. Because every possible government at Westminster would do exactly the same as this one.
And people still ask me why I support independence?
I’m just… I’m so sick of it all. Genuinely, it makes me ill. The people who put this in place? The creatures in government who make this happen? It is impossible to hate them any more than I do – and they’re damned lucky I refuse to consider violence the solution to anything. Because I’m not like them. We are not like them – we, the sma’ fowk, the common people. It’s up to our brethren in England to act, but I’m sick of waiting for them to save us – we need to save ourselves.
I was already furious enough today learning that no less than SIX Labour Councillors were present at a school function where they crowed about SNP policies they claimed as their own. Duncan McNeill dared to speak about child poverty mere days after thirty of his Labour (Scottish branch) colleagues voted for the 1% Benefits Cap which would push thousands of children into destitution. And this.
Enough. Enough.
ENOUGH.
Had a look at the wee sticker.
Doesn’t look like an Official Yes sticker does it?
Certainly not an offensive image, puir wee lonely thing.
Bless.
Slightly O/T
Came by the A Darling slur regarding shaming Scotland rather later than most and I’m just fizzing, so took finger to keyboard and rattled up a few lines on my blog. If anyone shames Scotland it’s that man. Words fail(ed) me and I could only come up with a brief 7 points to demonstrate how it is in fact Darling who shames Scotland. So while I sink a beer please feel free to add to the list of shamefulness and I’ll edit in later. Still fizzing.
http://whitefeatherclub.wordpress.com/2014/04/02/the-shame-of-scotland/
Come out of your hole Murray.Did you put that wee sticker on yourself?
Aha, thanks X-Sticks, much better picture. If only that was what Murray had posted on his page…
Get “Secret Squirrel” on the case.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-W8HwDD6i_m4/Tw3d7jPdBbI/AAAAAAAADNs/sVo-1_Z99F4/s1600/secretsquirrel.png
@John King – was thinking the very same thing myself John -to book a room for the 18th and 19th to possibly visit the Castle and Zoo or… more likely party like no other country on the face of this earth. Will make Hogmanay look like a winter picnic in the gardens
I will drink for twenty four hours if we win our freedom.Its going to be a street festival.
O/T Also
Taranaich – difficult to keep a sense of humour when such despicable things happen in our name.
Taranaich, absolutely sickening indeed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26856434
Is it just me or does anybody else have a low bandwidth text only version of the site
What Ian Murray’s office really needs is two enormous stickers of nicely-painted storm-doors.
OK… could we just go and do a decent paint job on the doors and generally tidy the place up? It’s obviously a local eyesore.
Westie7 et al – Stu’s not long tweeted that he’s aware that the site has been twitchy and he’s on the case.
O/T – Farage has ‘won’ the 2nd debate with Clegg.
(I can’t believe I just wrote that.)
http://archive.is/uCS7a
One of the first acts of the independent Scottish Government should be to offer Yashika Bageerathi a place at uni/college.
Westie7:
Me too! Maybe the Wings server has been attached by NO stickers or is it the squirrel rats again?
I was once vandalised by the dentist for being brave.
This was a few months ago.
Also, can you be charged with possessing stickers with intent?
Number six is the best btw.
@ Westie7
Aye, me too, Westie.
@ Albert Herring – I think there’s rather an amazing lot of people we will welcome with open arms.
Oops, Freudian slip, ‘attached’ should be ‘attacked’.
Paula Rose:
How about some nice green doors as they possibly were a couple of years ago but with a lovely smiley squirrel on them?
Slightly O/T – Just reading the WOS Twitter and read a tweet from Edinburgh councillor Lesley Hinds “Shocked at Independence debate at Broughton High School, SNP Gavin Barrie recommending Wings Over Scotland for young people to read”
Frankly I’m shocked that people are still daft enough to elect her, (presume she IS elected) Her stupidity is only surpassed by her ignorance (or arrogance)
BBC Scotlandshire reporter – usual unknown, bland, has just implied spent drug needles found near the Scottish Government’s Glasgow office are somehow ignored by our elected administration as a threat to life.
Nothing else but to assume she and her news crew left them where she found them.
GrahamB – oh yes!
@Paula Rose: Taranaich – difficult to keep a sense of humour when such despicable things happen in our name.
Indeed. It particularly stings because a good school friend of mine’s parents are Mauritian themselves.
@Albert Herring: One of the first acts of the independent Scottish Government should be to offer Yashika Bageerathi a place at uni/college.
Damned right.
Hello is the Police in Edinburgh? Yes. I want to report a very serious crime. Ok. Someone’s put a sticker on my office window. OK. Its getting out of control Police in Edinburgh. OK, can I have your name please caller? I’m Labour MP Ian Murray. OK Mr Murray, remain where you are, we’re sending round a white van and men with big nets right now.
Better together vandals have struck at the SNP.
https://m.facebook.com/GuyMcV/photos/pb.133561296800540.-2207520000.1396450130./295338073956194/?type=1&source=54&refid=17
Well vandals according to Murray and Roden.
Is this gentleman not wasting police time albeit informally?
Is he going to make a claim on his buildings insurance?
I went there this evening with the photo from Murray’s blog on my phone and couldn’t figure it out. I couldn’t get a match at all, and was beginning to think it was a fake. However I hadn’t spotted that the pattern behind the sticker was a reflection of the road markings. I think that indicates that Murray’s picture was actually taken in situ.
However, it’s one sticker, and it’s not an official Yes Scotland one either. In spite of his claims, I doubt if there were any others. Why not photograph them if there had been? I also suspect that sticker was only 2 or 3 inches wide.
The jury still has to be out as to whether that photo is for real, or was staged after the event when people started asking questions. Which still leaves me wondering, did it happen at all? But let’s give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that wee photo is genuine.
Roden said, “journalists checked it out”, leading people to believe journalists had actually gone there and seen the situation. But that was misleading. “Checked it out” meant that they had phoned Murray or his staff and accepted their account. They then decided it was so trivial it “wasn’t a story” and did nothing more – until people started querying it, when Roden tweeted to try to pretend he was in a position to verify Murray’s claims.
Was Murray in Scotland at all during this affair? Is it not more likely that someone in his office mentioned that a Yes sticker had been found on a window, while talking on the phone? Then he magnified that into a vandalism attack on Twitter all by himself. Then when challenged he couldn’t just say there was one wee paper saltire on a window, so he blew it up to multiple stickers. I’ll bet he’s never even been to the office during all this.
One wee paper saltire on a window, possibly placed quite neatly, and easily removed. That’s the abuse and the vandalism he’s crying about. While leaving the gross vandalism unrepaired since 2010, by his own admission.
Albert Herring:
Surely Glasgow Uni would be the obvious candidate, after Edward Snowden has been granted asylum so that he can perform his elected functions in person, or would that upset our relationship with our nice neighbours?
Ofcourse he’s wasting Police time and he’s using them to try and raise whatever tensions there are and make as much trouble as he can. Then they all come together, BBC, press etc and blame the cybernats or Yes voters. Flipper Darling’s the worst for this kind of thing but UK media’s just as bad. It all looks pretty futile so far.
@ Morag
However I hadn’t spotted that the pattern behind the sticker was a reflection of the road markings.
No reflection of the photographer though.
I only realised this evening how grotty that office is. I’d never given it more than a passing glance of loathing before.
The doors are badly scarred by the old OE graffiti. They’re also broken – the lock doesn’t close, hence the retrofitted hasp and padlock across the front. Very unsightly. There’s grass growing at pavement level, or trying to. The frosted windows aren’t too bad but the clear window is filthy. The inside is covered with the remains of those posters which have been taken down leaving bits of paper and stickum on the glass. The outside is dirty. The office can be seen through the window and it’s tatty and run down. It’s a disgrace.
His story about the graffiti is a joke. He admits it’s been there since 2010. He says he got the wrong sort of paint and didn’t realise it needed to be sanded down.
FOUR BLOODY YEARS!!!
What’s that all about anyway? Why would an MP be going to buy paint to do the job himself? If that was my front door I wouldn’t be bothering myself about any of that, I’d be getting a couple of quotes from reputable painting and decorating firms, accepting the one I liked, picking the colour off a shade card and telling the guy to get it done at his earliest convenience please. And in his position I’d then be putting it on my expenses, quite legitimately.
His office expenses are extortionate, and he couldn’t even get that sorted. The place is a scruffy, run-down disgrace. A wee paper saltire probably improved it.
No reflection of the photographer though.
That would depend on the angle of the photo, and how close the photographer actually was. Having been there, and now realising the markings are a reflection, I don’t think it could possibly have been taken from inside. The frosting is too opaque.
Either the angle has managed to leave the photographer’s reflection out of shot, or the photographer was some distance back from the window. It’s possible it was originally a much wider shot of the window, but Murray cropped it to conceal both the small size of the sticker and that it was the only one there.
@Morag –
Great stuff. ‘From Our Own Correspondent’.
Here’s one that RIC would probably do brilliantly – turn up at that office, team-handed, as they do on those make-over shows, armed with buckets of paint, rolls of trendy wallpaper etc, and demand to be allowed in for, say, two hours, on the grounds that the place is bringing the area into disrepute, and if the MP himself isn’t arsed about what the place looks like? well, the constituents certainly are.
Murray McCallum, I think the film you had in mind is “Papillon”, book by Henri Charriere, made into film starring Steve McQueen.
Ian, it’s a nice area in general. That small huddle of shops isn’t the greatest advert for the neighbourhood, but his office sure ain’t helping. I’d be black affronted, personally. It would be quite easy to get it smart and keep it that way, but it looks as if nobody cares.
…Yeah. the 10 minute makeover Ian…
http://greenroom.asda.com/media/BAhbB1sHOgZmIikyMDEzLzA1LzE1LzEzXzQzXzI5XzYyOF9kc2NmOTQ3MC5qcGdbCDoGcDoKdGh1bWIiCzEyMDB4Pg/dscf9470.jpg
I wish I still lived in Edinburgh, I’d be round to sort it out pronto.
O/T (again). The comments on CiF following Farage’s slaughtering of Clegg are Comedy Gold.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/02/nigel-farage-triumphs-over-nick-clegg-second-debate?commentpage=1
This Westminster slide into the political gutter must surely continue to boost YES in Scotland.
The update is fantastic. It never happened, another lie a unionist is happy to proliferate in order to improve the chances of their job and vested interests being maintained.
Check out these premises on Google Earth. The vandalism seems to have been there since 2013.
Seeing as we must all be running low by now
http://shop.yesscotland.net/yes-scotland-stickers
Westie7 et al – Stu’s not long tweeted that he’s aware that the site has been twitchy and he’s on the case. Having said that, my page view has gone a bit wonky just now.
David Cameron under pressure from senior Tories to stop Scots voting in 2015 GE.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4052836.ece
@Paula Rose says:
I wish I still lived in Edinburgh, I’d be round to sort it out pronto.
Anybody who does go round should be careful, and watch out for this man:
http://i.imgur.com/f1FWPcY.jpg
You know, there is a perfect storm brewing. After all these decades of setbacks for independence, it’s all lining up unbelievably. If we can’t do it this year, then when?
Clouseau Morag,
Did you happen to notice any similar postage stamp sized stickerlets on any other nearby properties?
Could be a lone operative with some homemade stickies nonchalantly sticking stuff.
Eccentrics are renowned for that type of thing you know.
Also, did you notice if those fake looking CCTV cams were fake or no?
I didn’t stay long. Just parked up opposite for five minutes. Tried to figure out where Murray’s photo was taken from without success, not realising about the reflection of the road markings. Didn’t think of looking carefully at the other shops, or the cameras.
I wonder who is the source of these stickers? That could give us the size, if we knew the size they’re made in. I suspect the original photo Murray had was taken from further back and showed the whole window (or most of it), and was cropped to conceal how small the saltire actually was, and the fact that it was the only one.
Anybody else having problems with the site tonight? Mine won’t load oroperly and is really messed up. Nobody haa mentioned it, obviously, so I don’t know what’s going on. Anybody?
I have just read Murray’s blog for the first and almost certainly the last time.
What a load of pointless bull.
Another, “the nasty cybernats did it and ran away but no one saw them or what they did” story. The picture is just weird. It doesn’t even look like the wee flag thing is on the same alignment as the glass.
As for lots of journalists saw it but no one took a picture..aye right.
We are in the middle of a political campaign and even if that sticker was genuine it was hardly threatening, offensive or even damaging the property. Murray is out of his depth if he is frightened of stickers.
@John King
Edinburgh party?…sorry but it will be George Square and the Rhoddie Dhu pub for me.
If the vote goes wrong it will only be the latter..for an even longer time
An interesting article by Stephen Noon – Yes campaign’s chief strategist:
http://stephennoon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/the-no-campaigns-women-problem.html
after you have the article – you might consider a small donation to this excellent fundraising appeal. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/women-for-independence-our-voices-fundraiser
Stephen was on Border TV tonight according to twitter:
http://www.itv.com/news/border/update/2014-04-02/watch-wednesdays-representing-border-online/
Also just noticed that comments are now numbered. Last on showing as no. 323 – New format maybe?
@Morag –
‘…it looks as if nobody cares.’
Morag, that sums up perfectly what this whole ‘independence’ business is about. It applies to the appearance of our high streets, our social security system, the way employers treat workers, the way many of us ‘ordinary’ citizens carry ourselves, see ourselves…the whole fucking shebang.
It could be slogan – a very very good one.
What has happened to the site?
Testing
msean – does the page look weird and the comments are numbered? If so – mine too. I think Stuey may be tweaking the site.
I once observed that I supposed there were scruffy areas in Oslo, although the towns in Norway where I’d been were remarkably smart. Someone suggested I should just have a wander round in Google Streetview. Amazing. I picked narrow streets by the docks, where any city might be expected to be a bit rough, and they were in tip-top condition.
Just looking at the top end of Lothian Road tonight and sighing quietly. Some lovely buildings, and nobody cares. We can do better than this.
Something wrong with the site tonight. It’s not loading properly and my last comment asking if anyone else was having problems disappeared. Nobody else has mentioned it so must just be my connection or something? Anyways good to be back, felt like I’d been locked oot in the cauld and was looking in the window watching you all have a lovely wee, cosy blether 🙂
Aye it does,looks as if it just went back ten years lol.
I will volunteer to repaint his door for him, a lovely shade of blue with a white diagonal cross should really perk it up.
Cyberbrit vandalism on the site tonight 🙂
TJenny, the last time I ended up on this low-tech version of the page, ages ago, there were comment numbers. During a discussion about numbering comments, I mentioned this and said they must be there and wasn’t there a way to display them. Stu denied all knowledge and said he could see no such thing.
They’re there though, and they’ll vanish when the current problems are fixed. I suspect there is some way to display them in the normal configuration. But on the other hand people start referring to comments by number and Stu deletes one for having no paragraph breaks or death threats or crappy videos or something, and everything is out from then on. Happened on the old Scotsman threads all the time. So maybe not such a good idea after all.
@TJenny exactly whats wrong with mine. Might be the Rev, dunno.
I’ve commented a few times re site acting weird – e.g.is anyone else seeing numbers alongside the comments?
Guys, Stu has tweeted that he’s aware of problems with the site and is “on it”. We’re seeing a low-tech version for some reason. Probably back to normal tomorrow.
Aye,I have numbers alongside comments.
It does that when the formatting goes and the thing defaults to 1997.
Morag “we can do better than this” and we will. Also firmly agree with your last 3/4 posts.
FWIW, I see nothing amiss.
Probably because I’m pished.
@Morag yes, numbers everywhere it’s not easy to navigate around either.
Ian, what browser do you use? For me it’s wonky in both Firefox and IE.
@Ian Brotherhood Cheers 🙂
I noted earlier that someone had posted the office expenses claimed by Ian Murray were I think the second highest of all the claims. If so, it doesnt appear that much is spent on the upkeep of the building, given the lack of repair of the door, the paint and the general look of the place. Not really someone with a pride in the place. Does anyone know where he lives? Is he in Edinburgh south or does he flit in and out.
Don’t know about defaulting back to 1997 but the Off Topic page says at the top of the page, posted by Rev Stu on Jan 02 1968!
@ Morag.I’ve been on Firefox all night and have had no problems. Apart from the green top header(which I thought was on purpose for comedy effect)sorry you can’t make it to the do on Friday, maybe next time.
The Yes campaign in general, and W O S in particular, have very successfully created enourmous amity among a wide view of opinions.
I really hope this will continue after a Yes vote and that the SNP will remain a single party seeking consensus rather than confrontation.
And W O S should develop into a full online news source, providing true, unbiased and objective reporting which not a single piece of media in Scotland does at the moment.
Regarding Murray, CCTV recordings could easily show who put up stickers, if at all, and when.
@Morag –
I’m not even sure what a ‘browser’ is. Do you mean ‘Interet Explorer’, or ‘Google’, that type of thing?
If so, I always get to Wings the same way, i.e. Internet Explorer, then Google, but it’s all done via whatever ‘Favourites’ has saved.
Sorry – I’m useless on that front. But seriously, the site looks ‘as normal’ to me, and has done all night.
(BTW, I’m still celebrating Rev’s decision to establish a new ‘Off-topic’ thread, for which we should all be truly thankful.
The website is not loading properly on my browser either.
Ian Brotherhood, Internet Explorer, Firefox, Google Chrome etc are browsers, that is programs through which websites can be accessed.
But everything is so automatic these days, not much need to know.
Ian Brotherhood,
Internet Explorer, Firefox, Google Chrome etc are browsers, that is programs through which websites can be accessed.
But everything is so automatic these days, not much need to know.
‘NO’ admits it was a wobble that was expected but don’t sound too confident. Looks like a memo to themselves!
http://archive.is/AvcZm
Taranaich
“Enough. Enough.
ENOUGH.”
I Feel exactly the same. I`m with you 100%.
100%
Rev, are you under DDOS again or have you been messing around with the WordPress style option? Graphics are not appearing, and the numbers of comments for an article on the main page are rendering white on white. You can see them if you right click with your mouse and drag the shading that now appears over the header for the article.
@Ian Brotherhood, I have been putting together a little Cybernatting for Dummies 🙂 document for a while, it has details of what browsers there are, how to use google effectively and so on. I just need to get some time to tidy it up, real life keeps getting in the way.
Two ‘wobbles’ on the same day! Someone has been briefing the press …Oh and for good measure Gordon is limbering up on the bench. Aye right!
http://archive.is/M2y2V
@Patrician –
Aha!
That sounds ideal.
(P.S. What does ‘Cybernatting’ mean?)
@Morag
I do not think it’s the numbering system that has gone wonky. If you click on the time stamp at the bottom of your comment then a number is displayed at the end of the URL in the address bar at the top of the browser. This number, I think, is the system number and the other is just cosmetic. As an aside you can link to any individual comment from elsewhere using this URL.
To me it looks as though the Cascading Style Sheet (CSS) file/s have gone wonky or become corrupted. These are the files that format the display and how it appears to the user. The CSS formatter give a uniform view across the entire site.
But there again I may be wrong.
@Ian Brotherhood
Firefox and ieExplorer are browsers on Windows and Google is an internet search engine that allows the user to search the entire web by using keywords.
In other words a browser uses a search engine such as Google in order that you can select your destination.
As I said I am not certain but I feel sure that Stu will tell us what went wrong when he has fixed it.
@Morag
Correction: The time date stamp is now at the top of your comment whereas normally its at the foot of your comment.
What was the problem Stu?
journalists must be on a special bonus,to mention cyber -nats
page 11 scottish sun. no mercy,rips into nationalists,Yes voters,huge spread
can’t link it as it’s subscription
David Coburn, Ukip’s lead candidate in Scotland interviewed on STV tonight said that the folk who had ‘attacked’ Barrhead Travel boss Bill Munro were “the cybernats, the cyber-Nazis, whatever you want to call them”.
With this level of clarty reasoning clearly those who put a sticker on the window of MP Ian Murray’s windows were re-enacting Kristallnacht!
Please can we leave this lot behind and begin to properly debate what kind of future we can create in what will be Europe’s oldest and soon newest nation?
Cyber nat thugs,a pic ,guy on laptop,hoodie and a balaclava
wait a minute!
“The police agree with me”?
If the police agree that this is an act of vandalism or an incident that requires a visit from a unit detailed with protecting Ian Murray’s staff, they must feel their is some concern that this ‘attack’ may escalate, at some point in the future?
Surely therefore, this same police inspector, would have the authority to request all relevant CCTV film, in order to attempt to identify the perpetrators, Just in case?
Either that, or the police inspector, was stupid or naïve enough, to allow himself to be used, by Ian Murray, to give credibility to his vandalism claim?
How long before Labour/BT politicians claim on TV that MP’s have even had to have advice from police on how to protect themselves from ‘Nationalist Thugs’ ?
Alan Roden and the Chief Inspector, have been dragged into a story that is not only damaging the reputation of the MP, but is also doing them no favours.
Ananurhing says
“All makes for good sport but sometimes I feel like the lone musketeer who’s pals have buggered off.”
If its sport you want why dont you get a couple of rottwielers and tell those buggers they have a five minute start 🙂
On his blog he’s now demanding a more reasonable debate, which is hilarious. He can start a more reasonable debate by not trying to score cheap points off of (alleged) petty crime. He could then continue by telling me how voting No will solve problems like the bedroom tax, nuclear weapons being secretly driven past my house, the democratic deficit, the tax deficit etc etc. But of course he’s not interested in debate, which is why he doesn’t allow posts to his Facebook page or comments on his blog, which is why I have to address him here.
If you’re interested Ian Murray, last week a guy at Glasgow Central pointed at my Yes badge and called me a “fenian cunt” – there are arseholes on both sides you see and if you were really interested in debate you’d ignore them like I do and get on with answering the hard questions. The more Better Together try and fill the internet with distraction and misdirection, the more people realise that they have nothing to offer Scotland.
Tom Peterkin (Scotsman)says
“Alistair Darling was making a convincing case for the Union ”
SPLUTTER WHAT? HOW LONG HAVE I BEEN ASLEEP?
I’m going to start having my porridge before I go to bed,
Dear God, the only convincing case Captain Darling has made is for him to get the part of Dreyfuss in a remake of The Pink Panther!
These Farage vs Clegg prime time bouts must be doing wonders for Yes.
The two most unpopular main UK parties in Scotland showing the latter it’s future if it says No.
Hi folks, I live in Ian Murrays constituency and was thinking maybe I should volunteer to go paint his office doors for him, a kind of ‘hand of friendship across the debate’ thing. Just to show how evil us cybernats are 🙂
I’ve been doing a fair bit of painting recently so all tools are to hand, he’d just need to provide his prefered shade of paint.
What do you guys reckon? Worth sending him an email? Or will I just end being accused of some terrible door painting threat?
Weir group just been on R4 regards uncertainty with borrowing costs if we become independent. Not really challenged, regards UK’s comparatively high rate and that wee countries are lower. No mention of standard and poors rating and no explanation regards blokes assertion that the increased borrowing costs would be 9 times higher than savings from reduced corporation tax.
Weirs stance was expected but reasoning as always, is full of holes.
Morag says
“Just looking at the top end of Lothian Road tonight and sighing quietly. Some lovely buildings, and nobody cares. We can do better than this.”
I could not agree more Morag, the wife and I spend a lot of time visiting different parts (just for a jaunt) and the level of neglect displayed is really disheartening, I would hope that post independence we can restore a sense of civic pride and restore peoples belief in themselves and their community,
It really needs to start with (dare I say it) respect for others,
And before Mr Murray leaps in with his dastardly cybernats vandalism, (meanwhile back in the adult world)
maybe he would like to reconsider his allegiance with the There-is-no-such-thing-as-society brigade,
The world these people espouse is not a world I recognise, where the law of the jungle prevails and the survival of the fittest is the only way,
I grew up in a more caring country who had a concern for its people and the people themselves had concern for each other, this is no longer the case, but it is not a quality that cannot be recaptured,
But while we have a government who encourage greed and fear why should we be surprised when people exhibit those very behaviours, we are condemned to follow a bleak and hopeless path,
A yes vote doesn’t JUST give us a golden opportunity to reinvent our country and allow it be all it can be, but allows us to reinvent ourselves, after midnight on the 18th/19th of September we can slough off the sackcloth of defeat and failure and, lift our heads up with a pride we simply do not have at the moment but people like you are showing they way forward and displaying the qualities we can all display (with a little push).
K McKay says
“What do you guys reckon? Worth sending him an email? Or will I just end being accused of some terrible door painting threat?”
He’d probably accuse you of trying to poison him with your cybernat paint fumes!
@John King, Don’t bother with the rottwielers, the ones I have known were pussy cats when confronted with my Pug. What he lacks in size he has in bravery. I would put money on him doing the job. I would not bother giving them a start they do not deserve it.
@ Bunter, heard the start and off went the radio, another day another scare story. We seem to be unique in that we have all these “uncertainties” but nobody says anything about the fact that Farage supposedly won the debate last night and he is creating even more uncertainty with his stance on Europe.
I heard the R4 Weir interview. I must admit to being disappointed with the rather blinkered and, frankly, filtered view of Scottish Independence. If there is a Yes vote, then I would hope that a future Scottish society developed a more holistic view of the nation at the heart of it’s thinking. I would say to the Weir spokesperson and his colleagues to remember that there are hundreds of thousands of children in Scotland living in poverty. One of the reasons that there is an appetite for Independence is to rid Scotland of the injustices that plague Scottish society because of the Union. Business should promote a caring attitude to the society that it operates within. I would also advocate a new tax structure in Scotland that encouraged charitable activities to aid the vulnerable in exchange for a favourable tax regime. Weir would gain respect by showing a more charitable response to the issues that are driving pro Independence thinking. If it doesn’t it just shows itself in a bad light and could find itself being viewed by caring society as little more than another big business completely detached from right thinking people who have a better Scottish society at the heart of their progressive thinking.
The top banner on the page has gone funny Stu… lime coloured and no Wings. I’m on Android browser.
Scratch that, corrected itself as soon as I logged in and posted… shades of DDOS attack methinks.
@bunter:
Weir’s was the first place in my life I ever encountered/noticed a “funny handshake”, from both the guys who interviewed me for a job. Didn’t get the job, although by the end of the interview, I’d decided I didn’t want it. That was years ago, but I suspect things won’t have changed much.
We must remember that Weir Group have previous form in that they were against Devolution and I am sure that someone on this site previously mentioned that arch unionist Lord Robertson is on the board or at least has some sort of position.
Of course, if as expected, Farage does well in the Euro elections and puts the frighteners on the established unionist parties, then how nice will it be if pro YES businesses are all over the media regards EU uncertainty.
Now that could be something to look forward to..lol
What a pathetic excuse for a man, there is roughly 200-300 nuclear warheads in his back yard, people living out of food banks and he’s going on about a couple of stickers.
Mr Murray, we dont give a sh!t.
@Bunter
I was curious why BBC Scotland had wheeled out the Weir Group annual scaremongering story.
Then I remembered that BBC Scotland reporter Raymond Buchannan moved their from BBC Scotland, just before he was accused of fabricating a story regarding the Irish Minister and her views on Scottish Independence.
So I think Buchannan has a lot to do with this non-story and all the contacts he still has at BBC Scotland.
The lot of them just disgust me.
Buchannan/Weir Group link-
http://www.scotsman.com/business/management/ex-newsnight-anchor-joins-weir-group-1-3082089
PS. Are BBC Scotland going to counter this story tomorrow with a pro-independence company telling us of the benefits Independence will bring, like lower corporation tax, lower airport tax and more.
I will be contacting BBC Scotland with this proposal, after all they are meant to be impartial.
Weir Group also on Radio Scotland GMS but to date no counter argument aired. Also heard Tory and Labour European reps on
regarding the Farage / Clegg debate but must have missed the SNP.
And another Catherine MacLeod Labour party political broadcast in the Herald.
Forgive my ignorance.What’s a “DDOS” attack?
@John
He’d probably accuse you of trying to poison him with your cybernat paint fumes!
No. He’d accuse you of trying to poison his staff with your cybernat paint fumes. You monster!
Its whats known as Direct denial of service its an attack where the attack floods a website with so many requests the site chrashes
I’m absolutely livid that GMS (Hayley Miller?) let the guy from Weir Group basically broadcast the OPINIONS from his report unchallenged. The closing comments especially infuriated me where he said something along the lines that the referendum amounted to “guaranteed problems/costs v’s unlikely promises”. Typical Project Fear bullshyte.
How can I contact this show?
Buchannan left BBC Scotland for Weir Group right in the middle of an inquiry into it’s handling of an Irish Minister’s views on Scottish Independence.
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/7995-trust-to-probe-bbc-scotland-over-creighton-eu-news-blackout-claims
Their is another link here.
Buchannan is also the brother in law of Brian Wilson, ex Labour Party Minister and anti-independence campaigner.
So the links between them is :-
Weir Group
BBC Scotland
Raymond Buchannan
Brian Wilson
ALL staunch Pro-Union supporters.
All this stuff about the journalists did or did not witjness or photograph are moot. the answer to question 5 was unequivocal:
“The journalists did not visit the office to verify the claims.”
Iain Macwhirter on good form this morning and telling it like it is. 🙂
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/no-camp-is-far-from-united-in-plan-for-scotlands-future.23853893
Anyone else heading to the YES Wigtownshire event in Stranraer at the weekend? There’ll be speakers from LFI, Business for Scotland, RIC… should be good.
Why can’t I find a way to correct the mistake in my previous post? “….about WHAT the journalists…..witness…..”
Helena Brown says
“Don’t bother with the rottwielers, the ones I have known were pussy cats when confronted with my Pug”
talking of pussy cats, my cat Kodak (the other one was called Fuji) neither sadly with us, Kodak was a mad mental wee cat, I saw him chasing a boxer out of our garden and he wasn’t kidding if he gotten a hold of that dog he would have rearranged its face, he was a total nutcase and he never (to my knowledge) lost a fight!
John King
Cheers.
Farage v Clegg
Patrick Harvey on GMS and giving good account of the case for independence. SNP MSP IainHughden followed but the sound quality so poor I could not make out what he was saying.
BBC could you spend some of my reluctantly donated money on better sound equipment please!
Fiona says
“No. He’d accuse you of trying to poison his staff with your cybernat paint fumes. You monster!”
Alright I’ll see what I have in the back,
what about a nice odour free Lincoln Green, not very weatherproof but it’ll cover up your childish scratchings for a wee while 🙂
However there have been (rare) occurrences when it has been known to spontaneously combust and cause total destruction of the building, will that do?
This attack on Scottish Independence was probably planned after a family get together by Buchannan and Wilson.
“Raymond, get Weir Group to commission a report on the uncertainties of Scottish Independence, then get your mates at BBC Scotland to make it their TOP headline story”.
“No problem Brian, BBC Scotland are right behind us”.
Newsnet cover the story with an interesting wee movie at the bottom of the page.
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8987-labour-mp-admits-vandalism-was-in-fact-stickers
P.S. Rev, could you set you link to Newsnet to here please http://www.newsnetscotland.com/ the link you have takes you to news page which is often a day behind.
I listened to the Weir Group interview this morning on GMS. It was quite clever actually. The reason that I believe the person from Weir was not challenged, was the fact that what was being punted was they commissioned a report from a third party. In other words it, it was written by them, it was written up by ‘Oxford Economics’. So even if the Weir person had been questioned, all he would have said was that the interviewer would have to ask ‘Oxford Economics’.
Weir Group has form of being against anything to do with Scotland bettering itself, friend Raymond Buchannan has just polished their anti independence rhetoric and known exactly which buttons to push.
Interesting point is this commissioned report by Oxford Economics, doesn’t actually feature as any part of Weir’s annual report. In fact I cant even see it anywhere on the Weir Group website, nor I think you will be able to see it on Oxford Economics website, so not open to scrutiny, perhaps if it were then it would be exposed as being a pile of horse dung.
Didn’t hear the unionist spokesman from the Wier group today but anyone else read how they were halted in their tracks by finnish govt, who blocked their takeover of finnish engineering group ?
Not the midas touch they like to suggest. No doubt we’ll read that that failure was also the SNP’s fault.
Seems the Finns could ‘smell a rat’ so do I whenever I hear the Wier group talk about independence.
(Tories ?)
Weir Group also fined £3million for breaking sanctions imposed on Iraq by the UN.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/weir-group-fined-163-3m-for-breaking-saddam-era-iraqi-sanctions-1-479803
They are not a nice company.
@K Mackay –
It’s a kind offer, but he won’t appreciate it. Why don’t you offer to supervise him painting the doors himself? (The man may need to acquire some new skills, pronto.)
Just to add on the Weir story, I found it fascinating that the Oxford Economics report commissioned by Weir’s stated that transaction costs alone would amount to £ 500 million a year for Weir Group ( I think it meant Weir Group as it was supposed to be a risk assessment for Weir Group).
Point is they also stated that would be the cost regardless if Scotland had its own currency or a shared currency, which I though was a bit weird.
But to add to that, there is no clarification as to how much business Weir Group currently does with overseas clients, that is clients outside the UK. For any business they do conduct with clients outside the UK will already be subject to transaction costs!
I suspect that buried within the figure is transaction costs that are already existing
The Weir Group are in merger talks with Finnish company Metso Corporation, and from what I understand the new HQ will be in Helsinki.
The Weir Group say they can’t operate in an independent Scotland but are considering a merger that will mean the company will operate out of an independent Finland.
Go figure.
Re: Giving Goose
” If there is a Yes vote, then I would hope that a future Scottish society developed a more holistic view of the nation at the heart of it’s thinking”
Well said!
Can I change it to ‘When there is a Yes vote….’ ? 🙂
Perhaps Mr Murray can find the paint colour he needs here;
http://thescottishscaremonger.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/the-scaremonger-paint-range.html?m=1
Like others, I had already pencilled in Weir Group as one of the most rabidly Unionist of companies and was mildly surprised that they were trying to pass themselves off as balanced arbiters of neutrality. A bit like the Barrhead Travel chap being presented on STV as an undecided when he had already penned an anti-independence polemic to his staff. There is an increasing amount of complete and utter bull coming from the No side. It smells of desperation.
Oxford Economics = “Leading global economics consultancy and thought leadership firm”…..and user of Dilbert’s random Mission Statement generator. 😉
David Coburn, Ukip’s lead candidate in Scotland interviewed on STV tonight said that the folk who had ‘attacked’ Barrhead Travel boss Bill Munro were “the cybernats, the cyber-Nazis, whatever you want to call them”.
Says the guy who’s party wants to round up foreigners and god knows who else and deport them.
It’s always the ones who invoke Godwins law first who act in the manner that they accuse others of.
I do worry that he might actually get a seat in Scotland at the upcoming European elections though. Theres going to be a lot of disgruntled labour voters out there looking to throw a protest vote, and may give their votes to this quack-quick fruitloop party.
Plus the liberal vote has collapsed. most will probably have drifted to the SNP or Labour, but some may go to the fruitloops.
Re Weir Group
Folks, please remember the BBC aren’t doing this deliberately. Despite the overwhelming evidence of bias, the absence of any reports starting ‘there’s a warning tonight that staying in the Union will..’, and an acdemic study demonstrating the bias, it’s all the result of managerial muddle and confusion.
Right, Mr Bateman?
Now we’re told how the debate is getting oh so ugly, but strangely all examples given only allude to those unruly Nationalists….quelle surprise…
http://www.scotsman.com/news/bill-jamieson-yes-there-should-be-no-poll-abuse-1-3362654
@ Macart
Many thanks for the link to Macwhirter’s article.
He seems a very fair journalist, prone to speaking facts, the more so since he espouses some sort of federalism.
But if like me, you begin from the obvious departure point Scotland is a separate country locked in an unequal union at its severe cost, federalism is only a way of reducing Scotland to another region of England.
O/T
Further to Weir group bollox
This below from Derek Bateman blog
“Out of touch may be overused as a phrase but reading what Bill Munro (Barhead Travel) and Alastair McMillan (White House Eng) think confirms that parochialism and deep-rooted anti-Scottish sentiment is alive and kicking throughout our country and a clever company would ensure a measured response – either way – instead of letting supercilious executives spoil their image.
The other irony today of course is that just as Alistair Darling was pretending to be appalled at the threatening behavior of cybernats, his Edinburgh Labour colleague Ian Murray was being exposed by Wings as a charlatan ready to use a political motive to whip up division ”
Great to see Better Together moving away from the Negative stuff (?)
The Weir group “report” on Scottish independence was like the weather. Dull dreary and full of drizzel and misty obfuscation. From a set of unknowns any possible benefits were “uncertain” while the same set of unknowns any disadvantages were sure and definite.
More of the same from the NO campaign national broadcaster.
re- Weir Group. As noted, head of communications is Raymond Buchanan – what do we really expect ?
Has anyone read this about the Euromillions winner a couple of weeks ago ?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/108million-euromillions-winner-neil-trotter-3273759
According to the paper, it looks as thought this guy is a fan of the BNP and has been posting racist messages around the internet.
Compare that to our own Weir family.
After the Farage/Clegg debacle, the clear differences between Scotland and England on the EU and just about everything else in life that shows we have different priorities here in Scotland this now comes along.
@ Desimond
“Now we’re told how the debate is getting oh so ugly, but strangely all examples given only allude to those unruly Nationalists.”
Mr Jamieson needs to toughen up.
For a start, he is unable to perceive the attack on democratic rights that is a company boss forcing his political opinion on his staff and expecting them to salute in return. That’s blackmail. That is violence.
The violence and ugliness of another sort concerns the domination of one state upon another, for over 300 years.
Desimond
Obviously Jamieson doesn’t read the Scotsman comments.Or he’s so bigoted he thinks the vile and racist unionit comments are absolutely factual.
I suspect the latter.
I wonder if Murray was feeling particularly sensitive after having met Modern Studies students at Boroughmuir High School in the last few days. According to an inside source Murray was subjected to a group of students wearing Yes badges and asking questions about politics in an independent Scotland. It must have been disheartening for him since I believe some of the questions verged on the ‘what will you do when you don’t have a job any longer?’ type.
@Grouse Beater
He certainly didn’t pull his punches on the state of the BT campaign. 🙂
Readers might also remember this story about the graffiti at Labour and Tory offices in Aberdeen….
http://news.stv.tv/north/230588-police-are-probing-attacks-on-labour-and-tory-constituency-offices/
I had a twitter conversation with Stewart Whyte who is a history teacher at Aboyne Academy and Scottish Conservative activist. He tweeted that “SNP supporters daub Q for ("Quizmaster" - Ed) on the Aberdeen Conservative and Labour Offices.” Councillor Meikle then asked him “Was it definitely SNP supporters” I asked him ” Has the person/persons been identified? Really difficult to tell a supporter because they don’t pay membership” and Mr Whyte replied “I deliberately didn’t say member although it cannot be ruled out”…now as far as I am aware, no person was ever identified as being the culprit..I continually asked Mr Whyte for an apology for SNP but he ignored, then eventually blocked me. So although no one was seen doing this, no one was identified or caught for thie heinous crime, Stewart Whyte knew it was something to do with SNP..and this man is a school teacher….
Oh dear. The picture of the offending “sticker” on Ian Murray’s blog appears to have been taken directly from the tweet posted by X_Sticks as a “recreation” of the crime scene. If you look for the office on GoogleMaps, and view it from the same angle, you’ll see exactly the same car in exactly the same place, and exactly the same pattern of fading to the yellow lines (since repainted, as can be seen in the photos on WoS) etc. So – unless that car’s been waiting 18 months for the lights to change — it’s obviously a photoshop job. And yet he’s reposting on his blog as “proof”?!
Morning John King,
“If its sport you want why dont you get a couple of rottwielers and tell those buggers they have a five minute start”
No no no John. Slowly slowly catchy Tory. Which also happens to be my signature dish. A slow cooked Italian chicken offering, which I’ll be feeding my UKIP pals. I call it, Lentamente Lentamente Cacciatore.
I also delight in pointing out that the beloved Garden of England they come from, and keep going on about is nothing but a past tense verb up here. Ken?
Heard the excellent Patrick Harvie on GMS this morning toss a very big bomb onto the LibDem’s lap by revealing they are actively cooperating with a US source to privatise the NHS and water in Scotland.
If the people of Scotland who intend to keep the LibDem vote alive they should get busy and interest themselves with what PH says. Does anyone have more information on this because these LibDem characters need to blown right out of the water – OUR WATER!
@MolliBlum says:
I make no bones about it being ‘recreation’ of the crime. It IS a photoshop job, but based on the photo posted by Mr Murray and the Google street view of the office front (or side whatever). I was using it to make a point about getting some perspective on the meaning of ‘vandalism’
http://t.co/99pqV8Ri2d
@DiscoDave
Here in the East of Dundee there’s a path that has ‘End London Rule’ on a saltire stickers affixed largely to bins, including those intended for dog mess where they stand out nicely against the red. Grey electricity/telecoms boxes have also been stickered. Again the contrast is rather fetching.
Interestingly they cease at the point where the path crosses the county boundary. Clearly London rule is not meant to be removed from Angus 😉 I have seen no equivalents for the ‘other side’.
It reminds me of nothing so much as a small child having a meltdown because the peas on his plate are touching the mashed potato…
No, it’s the other way around. Ian Murray posted the close-up on his blog first, didn’t he?
Although no caption to say it was the actual “crime”, for later deniability.
aitchbee
He is having a hissy fit because he wants to. I can’t take the man seriously. He has nothing of importance to say. He may find his feet come time but he is still at the grateful party acolyte phase of his career.
kalmar says:
“No, it’s the other way around. Ian Murray posted the close-up on his blog first, didn’t he?”
Correct kalmar. It was the photo that Mr Murray posted that set me off to figure out where the sticker was and it’s approximate size. The reflection of the bike roadmarking gives away its location.
nice spot MolliBlum
expect his next defence
it was a virtual expose on what actualy happened
(:>)
I’ve known three Weir’s Pumps employees over the years, all prone to ‘funny’ handshakes and all Rangers supporters, one at least was a season ticket holder. As he is no longer alive it’s one less NO vote – died quite young, probably hastened by discovering his son fancied other men.
It used to be an employment problem in Glasgow/west of Scotland usually addressed by ‘what school did you go to?’ I worked for many years at Barr & Stroud and in the 70/80s assisted at apprenticeship interviews. If you were in the BBs you were straight in, Scouts next best thing, it was like the Belfast shipyards. Thankfully that sort of behaviour is diminishing now or st least not as blatant with the attempts to stamp out sectarianism.
caz-m says: 8.40am Lists the Unionist bastion within Weir Group “Buchannan is also the brother in law of Brian Wilson, ex Labour Party Minister and anti-independence campaigner.
So the links between them is :-
Weir Group
BBC Scotland
Raymond Buchannan
Brian Wilson”
Let’s not forget the other Unionist heavyweight who is a non-executive member of the Weir Group board is Lord Robertson of Portellen
I’m a driver with Lothian Buses and one of the routes I do is the number 3. This passes Mr Murray’s office and I recall noticing the vandalised doors only a matter of months after the 2010 election. The paint used to cover it was a darker shade than the original. This was long before the YES campaign got under way.
Surely a leaflet round Ian Murray’s constituency would destroy him on this issue.
Better still we should have nice publication ready made up with a compelling collection of political points and so on and a big empty bit in which this kind of stuff can quickly be inserted for immediate printing and distribution.
This is a war we are in and I don’t believe in taking prisoners. If they give us a opportunity to destroy them we should destroy them
Has anyone found the source of the sticker yet? I’ve looked all over
the web but no luck. (Apologies if this has been answered – it’s
a very long thread).
Ananurhing says
“No no no John. Slowly slowly catchy Tory. Which also happens to be my signature dish. A slow cooked Italian chicken offering, which I’ll be feeding my UKIP pals. I call it, Lentamente Lentamente Cacciatore.”
How remiss of me, the Tory visitors may very well be your own family, of course I would not suggest you set the dogs on them after a five minute start, give them ten minutes at least, blood being thicker than water an all that,
ken?
btw send them to MacDonalds
they’ll get chicken molto prestissimo 🙂
Dave McEwan Hill says
“This is a war we are in and I don’t believe in taking prisoners. If they give us a opportunity to destroy them we should destroy them”
Unless they’re American Journalists Dave eh?
who are apparently more to be pitied than scorned because their only source of information about the referendum debate in Scotland is David Mundell?
Crime scene update:
http://i.imgur.com/L2LpByn.jpg
Definitely no photoshopping (honestly).
Can’t see how they’ll make the charges ‘stick’.
Aitchbee says
“It reminds me of nothing so much as a small child having a meltdown because the peas on his plate are touching the mashed potato…”
Y’see this is where the fabric of society starts to unravel,
first its sloppy service (peas on his plate are touching the mashed potato…”)yeuch
then it escalates into people thinking its funny to put one of those disgusting articles on an upstanding honourable Member of Her Majesties Parliament’s wee shop window,
God only knows what kind of unwashed cretin might have touched it before his poor minions er staff had to handle it, not cool guys not cool! 🙂
Calgacus McAndrews says
“Can’t see how they’ll make the charges ‘stick’.”
Maybe if they asked the perpetrator where he bought the sticker cos the glue in that seems to be sticking to window just fine.
I’ll– just– em
er its kinnie cauld ootside.
We have ‘spokespeople’ now. Go “unaligned” us!?
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/ian-murray-row-over-pro-independence-stickers-1-3363085
The language in intro…anyone else think its loaded somewhat?
A BITTER spat has broken out after a Labour MP’s constituency office was plastered with pro-independence stickers.
The sticky “Yes” flyers were slapped on Ian Murray’s Minto Street office in the dead of night.
Desimond
🙂
She turned me into a newt…….
……I got better.
@alexicon
Re the FT paywall, if you know the title of the article you can paste it into Google and it’ll link you straight to the article through the firewall. For example:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=the+real+cause+for+unionist+concern
Top link will take you straight through to the article.
Sticker War Warning – Grass roots activists report readiness as forces of the Scottish Territorial Anti-Sticker Initiative face off against the Scottish Stickerons to do adhesive battle over every lamp post,road sign and junction box in the land.
Remember, be careful out there!
@john king says:
Maybe if they asked the perpetrator where he bought the sticker cos the glue in that seems to be sticking to window just fine.
It’s time now that the perpetrator came forward.
He or she is in pole position for the:-
CYBERNAT of the MONTH AWARD for April
(sponsored this month by Avery)
Does “sticky ‘Yes’ flyers” mean sticky stickers?
Maybe its an Edinburgh journalism thing. It must be quite tiresome to both produce and read this stuff though.
The explosive explosives brought the high, high-rise flats down to the ground at ground level to mark the opening start of the Glasgow Commonwealth Games in Glasgow.
I’d like to apply for the post of WoS spokesnat.
rab the doubter says
“I’d like to apply for the post of WoS spokesnat.”
Aye right, jist join the queue, thirs three hunner o us in front o you ye ken!
@Futureproof – last week a guy at Glasgow Central pointed at my Yes badge and called me a “fenian cunt”
Unfortunately that’s the mentality of some of our countrymen where indoctrination have left them unable to open their eyes or minds. p.s surprised you got away with the c word as I was roundly panned a few weeks ago 🙁
I go past that office several times a day, there are a couple of the same stickers on bus stops, lampposts in the area so it is not outwith the realms of belief that some evil terrorist stuck one on the office window. To claim that this is vandalism beyond personal insult is quite pathetic and sensationalist. The reaction, whilst a little off the mark, was IMO entirely understandable as any normal person would not consider a sticker on glass as vandalism. The report of vandalism was investigated and the only ACTUAL vandalism found was not relevant. Pretty pathetic attempt at claiming the moral high ground if you ask me, he should know better and rise above it but then that wouldn’t be in keeping with the No campaigns tactics would it?
Should ian murray nae be recommended for the vc a gie brave lad, under fire fae sticker stickers he managed to tear some of before running to safety down the M1, what a c- – – – – – – te ha ha ha.