We’re confused about the rules again
Channel 4 has now aired its Dispatches programme about “intimidation”, in which a lot of grown adults from the cut-throat world of business whined about possible vague hints they may or may not have picked up that the Scottish Government would rather they kept quiet about independence.
The estimable Lallands Peat Worrier skewers the subject brilliantly here, so we shan’t detain ourselves further with the specifics – other than to passingly note that as Mandy Rhodes of Holyrood Magazine tweeted during the show, one of the alleged victims was so frightened and cowed into submission that he’s currently suing the Scottish Government at the European Court about something else entirely.
But there was something else that had us puzzled.
Because it seems that if you’re an employer and you (allegedly) get pressured into behaving in a certain way over the independence referendum, you’re the victim. But if you’re an employer and you’re the one DOING the pressuring, by sending hundreds of staff angry, mad and wildly-inaccurate emails telling them that if they vote Yes they’ll be putting themselves out of a job… you’re still the victim.
We must have read something wrong. We’ll keep trying.
I am just watching Peston on BBC through gritted teeth. He has managed a considerable discussion on currency, assumomng no currency union without managing to mention that Scotland can use the pound whether rUK likes it or not.
He then goes onto assume a currency union when he talks of borrowing,
The whole programme is a disgrace of unsupported assertions
No mention by Robert Peston of Financial Times report that Scotland would be one of the richest nations on the planet.
No mention in MSM / BBC that the reason SWA is objecting to Minimum pricing is not about Whisky but to project the multi national drinks companies that produce cheap vodka.
If the whisky industry was so intimidated into not speaking out, how come it spoke out? Hmmmmm…
Judging by the intense astroturfing that went along with the article in the Guardian the other day on this, some planning went into it’s promotion. Classic Rovian neocon tactic, do something revolting and egregious, then volubly accuse your victim.
There is a special place in hell reserved…..
Preston doesn’t mention Scotland would be £10Billion+ a year better off. £3Billion surplus goes to Westminster.Plus £4Billion a year in debt repayments, Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. £1.5Billion a year saved on Defence getting rid of Trident and no illegal wars and £1.5Billion saved by a tax on ‘loss leading’ cheap alcohol.
Weir Group do currency exchange on world markets, and the cost is included in pricing. London banks make £Billions exchanging Euros.
The irony business people threatened not to speak out. Speaking out.
Yeah, poor wee wilting daisies that they are couldn’t possibly have their own wee axe to grind against the SG. They’re just misunderstood and put upon.
I am fair sick of the corporate world pissing on our backs and telling us its raining.
Peston was a disgrace, he shouldn’t call himself a serious journalist any more, mouthpiece for the British establishment, shame on him.
Can’t believe that they had footage of a Greek riot to accompany his wee chat on whether or not a currency union would work.
And no mention of any assets offsetting the debts that we might inherit, no Sir.
No mention of the risks of staying in the union, like the austerity agenda or the cuts of £4bn to the austerity agenda.
And, of course, the oil is plummeting, no mention of the record investments, new fields or Sir Ian Wood’s predictions of an additional £10bn a year for the next 20 years.
The BBC can GTF they aren’t good enough for our new Scotland.
I get the impression Peston felt he was giving the issue a fair hearing, but as Dave Hill mentions, he lacks understanding concerning, for example, assets as well as liabilities, even though the London chappie mentioned them.
At least he didn’t get onto intimidation !
If you are the Employer and of the Establishment of course you are the victim.
In this vortex in which we find ourselves where the tears of Milliban’s weans should sway us to No rather than vote Yes for all our own best interests and where the Socialists in the tradition of Maxton, Shinwell and MacLean are NaziFascists, that is how things are.
A comparision is the Devo-Whateveo (you may wish to add the f… today?) jam that we will be promised tomorrow (if we vote No because more powers are superlative to complete sovereignty), when although the great white elephants at Faslane will prevent this happening, tomorrow will never come.
I have a ticket booked and a script. Tomorrow I go on holiday to a Pinter Play until 17th September. It will be more certain and relaxing.
Milliband not Milliban
to (vote).
I need to learn to proof read if not for my fiftieth, maybe before my sixtieth birthday.
how many stages removed are we from someone who has been threatened by their employer, and is it a threat that you must vote no, or yes? I’m one stage removed. Friend works for an American company that does IT for NHS (can find out more specifics if anyone interested). He’s been told they’re moving to England if Scotland votes yes. My friend is a no supporter anyway, so he’s probably not bothered about the threat.
Newsnet Scotland exposes inconsistencies in Gavin Hewitt’s “bullying” claims.
link to newsnetscotland.com
So it’s one rule them, and one rule for.. erm.. them then.
It does confuse me this Whiskey mob donating to Better Together.. Is anyone shocked? The Scottish Government are in favour of minimum pricing but, Oh No! this might impact on our profits so we’ll donate to the Better Together as uKOK are not in favour of minimum pricing, and to hell with public health.
We’ll donate to uKOK – as the BBC reports it “…the Scotch whisky industry enjoys substantial support from the UK government and its worldwide embassy network and from lack of trade barriers within the EU.”
Hang on.. lack of trade barriers within the EU.. and your funding a uKOK campaign that are hell bent on having an EU In or Out Referendum led by Magic Dave..
So your afraid of Scotland not being in the EU (therefore fear of trade barriers) and funding a situation that will lead to.. (drum roll) Leaving the EU and build trade barriers..
Now call me Mr Pedantic..
I suppose this could go here.
link to news.stv.tv
@ Lalland Peat Worrier
‘to keep their gobs shut about Independence’ : – )
The world and their dogs have had their say.
Gavin Hewitt is a liar.
Whisky Companies tax evade. That’s why they want to keep UK Tax Laws.
When are they going to threaten to leave Scotland? Drivel.
The biggest lie in the last few weeks, was Danny Alexander pish about 2.7 billion to set up an independent Scotland, but this BBC show just breezed past it, ?? I was so mad watching this I could have put my boot through the tv……….
Gird yer loins folks we have a episode of Dallas tae endure
from Sarah Smith,an its the Texas Dallas no the we Scottish village Dallas & the real people there.
So Gavin Hewitt lied. So how long has he been lying?
whisky companies will have to leave scotland if those stupid snivelling scotch bastards vote yes. is it possible?
There is a rumour that Scotland 2014 is to be dropped. Sarah Smith will be heading back to London.
No doubt with a case of whisky for her troubles..
gillie
That would be pretty humiliating, after the Beeb made such a song and dance about it and elbowed Newsnicht. A journo friend of mine has told me that the viewing figures are low and falling, though.
Well what do you know. Scottish Whisky Association are being *ahem* being bullied by Scottish Government. Awe the poor wee petals, they’re so fragile. Oh wait a minute isn’t this the SAME association that is taking S.G. through European Court over MINIMUM PRICING? Well it looks to me that this fragile petal is NOT as fragile as they are making out are they? MUPPETS!
On the Peston political advertisement for Better Together what can I say other than what a load of absolute mince. Typical BBC Scotland is too wee too poor too stupid to go it alone. I’m betting after he was finished in the editing suite he got a tremendous salap on the back from his bosses saying “That’ll show those upity Scots they cannae go it alone. That’ll teach them!”
“But if you’re an employer and you’re the one DOING the pressuring … telling them that if they vote Yes they’ll be putting themselves out of a job… you’re still the victim.
That’s one of those “imponderables” Robert Peston was talking about. You know the really complicated ones like “will it hurt if I electrocute myself”?
gillie says:
There is a rumour that Scotland 2014 is to be dropped. Sarah Smith will be heading back to London.
You really know how to cheer us all up these days gillie, thanks for that.
I have just watched the Peston programme as well, and thought in general he was pretty fair.
There was one economist guy who summed it all up by saying Scotland was unlikely to be significantly richer or poorer whichever way the vote went.
I thought Peston’s closing remark about identity and being what we want said it all. I actually thought he confirmed my view that we should vote YES.
Re. Peston. Did he com out with the ‘confident wee nation proud to be part of a larger country called the UK’, tosh? Sorry, I’m not wasting the bandwidth.
JUST for the record: like Camembert and Normandy, Whisky cannot be made other than in Scotland and be Scot’s whisky.
It IS always possible, if we vote Yes that the British Government declaire Berwick Upon Tweed the Alternate Scotland and move everything there, I suppose.
If Sarah Smith goes, who’s next?
Let’s think out of the box, run something up the flagpole, and see if this kite will fly…tbh, I can’t think of anyone.
Sorry, o/t re Peston on Scotland. A few negative comments above, but I had a cushion to hide behind at the start but by the end I actually felt quite uplifted and positive. In Preston’s defence (I can’t believe I just said that!) the programme was probably ‘in the bag’ before the ST black gold article.
Ok maybe when I watch it again I will pick out a few same old frustrating inaccuracies, but for the Beeb, in an hour long programme about independence, I was pleasantly surprised. I expected much more negative stuff.
I think it was probably made for a rUK audience, it is the Beeb after all! I hope most folk that I know down here, who know very little about the debate but still think it ‘absolutely ridiculous’ to break up the UK, will maybe have watched it and seen it from a Scottish perspective for the first time.
To my mind the upside of all this is that the media and their pals are busy creating a mythical ‘tough Scottish Government’. That will backfire on them. The notion of Alex and Nicola with holsters and smoking guns appeals to me. Nobody with brain cells is going to believe the bullying bit.
A friend just emailed me to say she thought it was well-balanced. Gotterdammerung is just finishing on Radio 3 (I’ve been glued to it since I left work at 20 to six) but I have no intention of watching Peston.
The Peston programme was a lot better than I feared. Some of the filming certainly looked great.
Can’t remember hearing any thought on risks to UK as is or rUK in future. It was rather embedded in Scottish independence *must* mean net increase in risk exposure.
I don’t follow that logic.
The thing that comforts me is, no matter how much I may despair about the passivity and wimpishnes of Yes Scotland, if there’s any group of people I trust implicitly to fight for independence with every atom of guile in their bodies, it’s Salmond, Sturgeon et al. Including Robertson, Noon and the other strategy experts.
However much I want this, they want it just as much. And they have a lot of experience under their belts. They know that this is it. This is when it matters, now, this year, this moment, if never again.
They’re not going to miss tricks or drop the ball. Peace and joy, friends.
To nit pick just two wee parts for starters meindevon he made absolutely NO mention of the oil off the West coast of Scotland and the BLOCKING of access to it by M.O.D. in 1985 because they wanted clear access for their Tonka subs. This information has been around for ages. He is,apparently, a journalist pity he didn’t *ahem* journalist himself around the internet to find this information.
When he was rabbiting on about what currency we’d use *YAWN* he mentioned the currency union but look out folks absolutely NO mention of the £ sterling being a fully tradeable international currency and we could use it without permission from London. More over he made absolutely no mention of the amount of U.K. assets that we would be eligible for in a currency union. He also failed to mention that if we used the £ outside a currency union then we would, naturally, NOT be eligible for any of Westminster’s debt!
gillie says:
Well she has a face like slapped arse, every night!
O/T slightly, but not really as it is all just lunacy these days anyway !
Alistair “blood and soil” Darling still confusing himself..Perhaps he would like to expand on this article ?
link to independent.co.uk
“If we get it wrong, it will have a profound effect, not just on Scotland, but the rest of the UK”.
“The stakes in the banking crisis were big; this is so much bigger.”
Mr Darling revealed that his No camp may make a formal complaint to the Electoral Commission about allegations that the Scottish National Party threatened some businessmen with “retribution” if they spoke out against independence.
I can’t bear to watch or listen to Robert Peston at the best of times, so well done everyone who did.
Some people keep calling him Robert Preston, mind you. ‘Seventy-six trombones…’
re Scotland 2014, Sarah Smith being replaced etc –
Why doesn’t BBC Scotland take the easy way out and do the honourable thing (simultaneously) by banning itself from making any more indy-related news/current-affair programmes on the grounds that it now has a track record of being unable to do so without unacceptably blatant bias.
Much the same reasoning is followed by those who refuse to attend dinner parties because they cannot prevent themselves loudly breaking wind at least once at the start and end of every course.
geeo
Establishment sweating. Seems they don’t believe the ‘this is our opinion’ polls either
Peston’s pish was the usual recycled scaremongering with some not so subliminal stuff (Greek riots re. currency differentials).
But unwittingly, I suspect, He undermined his whole schtick with mentioning Shetland’s oil-fund of £200 plus million (if they can do it then why not the whole of Scotland?)
and the final part of the programme when the financial expert at the programme’s end said that essentially financially we’d be no better and no worse off in twenty years if Independent.
Confusingly, this destroyed the whole point of the programme…..thankfully!
Dispatches interview with that bettertogether history Professor was especially vote no creepy, gothic horror music, long lingering close ups of poor wee old scholars quivering hands in his bath chair and how he’s so bullied by an email from a Scots.gov minister that said, are you not meant to be impartial Prof etc?
The idiots may aswell have stuck him behind a curtain or disguised Prof’s voice as they do with everyone else who needs protection on tv and all for running Dundee Academics vote No. That rancid never elected Lord twerp piling in was just appalling tv.
If poor Professor No sees his student numbers drop through the floor when his unionist chums do get back in with their austerity £9k+ uni fees, his poor wee handies really will be shakie. Vote no, vote Labour Con Dem, pay £40+grand for an ordinary history degree, big whoop bettertogether
O/T again re Peston. I found it ironic that he concluded his hour on the economic issues by stating that these would not be the deciding factors, but it was about Scots identity and history, and how that, perhaps, is what will shape our future. I hope that is the case. Put people before economics and vote Yes.
Peston’s pish was the usual recycled scaremongering with some not so subliminal stuff (Greek riots re. currency differentials).
Yeaay, so he mentioned Greece, good. He always does in his reports about Scottish independence, glad he didn’t disappoint.
Ian Brotherhood says:
re Scotland 2014, Sarah Smith being replaced etc –
Why doesn’t BBC Scotland take the easy way out and do the honourable thing (simultaneously) by banning itself from making any more indy-related news/current-affair programmes on the grounds that it now has a track record of being unable to do so without unacceptably blatant bias.
Much the same reasoning is followed by those who refuse to attend dinner parties because they cannot prevent themselves loudly breaking wind at least once at the start and end of every course.
There is a very simple reason the BBC do NOT do the honourable thing Ian, and that is they do NOT do honourable. As far as the BBC is concerned doing the *ahem* honourable thing is what others do they, BBC, just create the ridiculous situation that forces others to do the “honourable thing.”
Who does this story remind you of ?
link to theguardian.com
Why doesn’t Robert Peston have to declare an interest every time he opens his massive, drawling, neoliberal mouth? He’s one of David Cameron, Andy Coulson and Rebekah Brooks’ best friends!
In other news: bawbees and unicorns? Aye, of course. Just like the UK still uses sovereigns and thruppenny bits. Honestly, what a ridiculously bad programme.
Morag
Its a great bit of music but I hope our adversaries don’t catch wind of some of us liking a bit of Wagner now and again.
I watched him stand on that floating platform and talk about the declining oil industry as a fact. And roll out the old favourite about Scotland receiving more per person than the rUK…
Enough for me. If Bob canny be bothered to even go to the ‘New Readers’ page on this site and read up on the basics I canny be bothered to watch his program.
And don’t get me started on Mr Leask of the Herald. That man has some bloody brass neck slagging off Stuart on twitter. If the bleedin journalists of this nation were doing their job instead of doing their masters bidding we would be looking at a landslide. It’s because guys like Leask and Gardham and Torrance, and all the rest in the tabloids and the Party Political Broadcastman aren’t offering anything in the way of balanced journalism – thats the reason it’s left to Stuart and guys like Lallans Peat Worrier to broadcast the truth. Aye – TRUTH! A fucking rarity in this land right now.
The lies about our oil wealth are unforgiveable. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I think we should go for it whatever the decision in in September. I mean, who won the last election? We get the treble of Scottish Parliament Election, the Europeans and we’ll win the General Election – is there no something in the rules about keeping the ba’ ?
… or keep in the trophy more to the point?
Rant over.
Can I go a bit O/T.
Commonwealth games outfit, Jilli Blackwood said if everybody liked it she would have failed.She did fail,she dressed up as a circis performer, Jock Scot dey ye need a new hat Jilli’s goat wan gon spare, an its a designer wan.
Prof Curtice was unusually frank about why England is fighting to keep or not lose, 10% population, almost half their territory but he stopped there which was odd. I know its the UK thats fighting Scots indy. but its really England.
Peston’s programme seemed to be superficially balanced and inconclusive, even neutral, if you are not well informed, like all those “don’t have enough information/facts” dopes. However, there were several major ommissions which would have swayed the balance our way – as others have mentioned he seemed ignorant of using the pound outwith a currency union; his first third of the programme was predicated on North Sea Oil, without a mention of West of Shetland, Hebrides and Firth of Clyde; and the major saving in expenditure which would balance the books and make an Oil Fund possible, Trident.
Still, relatively neutral was better than the expected negativity but as it was not the full picture it was a wasted hour of programming.
Has anybody counted the number of celebrity English sent up to Scotland for an all-expenses paid ‘exploratory weekend,’ against the number of actual Scots asking similar questions who are not stand-up comedians?
And has Professor Robertson, or anybody else for that matter, compared programme against programme to ascertain why so many ask the same questions eliciting the same predictably boring answers, but wrapped up in a slightly different mode of presentation as a pretence it’s a different enquiry?
@Grouse Beater –
I don’t know if they’ve yet expressed any opinion(s), but in case they do, should ‘Ant & Dec’ be treated (for statistical purposes) as one person, or two?
I actually thought the Robert Peston programme was reasonable for the BBC. The conclusion at the end was that we wouldn’t be any worse off than we are just now, which as a conclusion is streets ahead anything the MSM and the BBC normally come out with.
My only complaint is that they dont analyse how much we can save by being far more radical than the SNP in areas such as Defence spending almost from day one and how departments set up from scratch could be light years more efficient. A tax regime that does away with evasion and avoidance would also be a big bonus.
So if the answer is that, if with independence we are stupid enough to vote in governments who waste money in the same way as the UK, we are no worse off in twenty years that seems positive to me.
Anyone managed to get sight of the Fishermans Federation letter that was the big bullying issue on reporting Scotland. Should be easy to debunk if we saw it you would think.
Think many are going overboard about Peston, heard far worse crap from Glen Campbell & Bernard Ponsonby to be honest.
The real villain of the peace for me is a certain Sir Tom Hunter. So helpful with his polls amd views of ‘what public thinks’ (more like loaded questions / wants the adulation of the public). “We need more info & honesty and less argy bargy ??”
Ok so he’s a successful Business man / entrpeneur and helps out kids but why keep giving this guy airspace as an impartial ?
He’s a stirrer and should really just be honest and come out for no now ! (Me thinks a Billy two hats)
Just listen to his weasel words; Tom wants certainty and honesty (coming from a business man ?? dont make me laugh).
Stick to the charitable work Tom & leave out the false flag impartial politics.
More North British oil! WE’re rich! Again!
link to bbc.com
Don’t really care. I’d forgotten the broadcast was on. Stressing all day at work, not about work, but about media bias and selective reporting and fighting with both hands tied behind our back. I got into my car and turned on the ignition and the notes of the “Dawn” music from the prelude filled the car.
A beatific smile spread over my face (only slightly modified by the nasty edge on the First Norn’s voice) and I settled down for a complete evening of wallow. I even saw the inside of the Festspielhaus with the blue curtain still down and the warmth of a Bavarian afternoon beginning to fade behind the closed doors, there in my mind’s eye.
I don’t give a freaking monkey’s if Hitler liked it too. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. It’s the greatest music ever committed to paper in the history of mankind.
I expected the Peston programme to be more Bias but on reflection it was short on the facts in the Oil sector, but they dont want to go to far,truth/halftruths,keep the electorate confused , so it goes on.
Did Peston mention the McCrone report? Would it have changed the narrative? Did he question the direction of travel the Westminster party is following? Did he mention civil liberties? Did he mention Trident 2, HS2, Crossrail 2, etc…..
Save the Pepto Bismol for more authentic reasons.
It’s probably best to just switch off as I did with both referendum based programs tonight.
Watching them provides no insight, no solid facts to demonstrate any positives for going independent & only come across as half arsed balanced to the type of people who appear on “Which” adverts who glibly admit being unable to find the fucking ON button on a laptop.
I didn’t see the Dispatches programme so can’t comment. I did watch the Peston programme though and do not believe it was balanced.
However despite the obvious omissions to those of us that know better it must have looked OK from the point of view of those who have read, saw or heard nothing other than the usual propaganda and are undecided but leaning our way.
It’s possible that the programme may swing a few votes to Yes. After all the conclusion that it was very unlikely that Scots would be any worse off in an future may have calmed a few concerned voters.
Suggestion for the Rev , get a word cloud done on Peston’s prog. Them negative words are there in spades.
This article in the Gaurdian might explain a lot.
link to theguardian.com
Peston: bias by omission. 1980s de-industrialisation; our own currency pegged to the pound; no share of assets which may possibly cancel out the debt; higher public spending offset by higher tax revenues; and others. Use also of IFS and OBR as experts.
Did you notice the sneer when he said Alex Salmond’s Cabinet met in a church hall when PM was in in BP’s HQ in Aberdeen? They just don’t ‘get it’ that the FM is accessible to the Scottish people when the PM isn’t.
On a positive note the scenery was magnificent and there were 2 shots of the indyref march last September and quite a few Saltires in the first 20 minutes or so.
Actually a bit better than I expected but I wasn’t expecting much. I only watched in case someone asks me about it when I am on the ‘Women for Indy’ stall on Saturday.
@ meindevon: hadn’t thought about it being for the whole UK – that makes sense.
re Scotland 2014 new presenter:
Got it!
Professor Joanne Curtice. Not many have heard of her, but she’s a well respected and totally impartial fossil-expert with absolutely no interest in the referendum. I’m sure she could give all and sundry a fair crack of the whip, as well as filling in awkward moments by showing us beautiful examples of Devonian fish traces captured in Morayshire red sandstone.
Sorted!
Scotland Tonight with Sir Tom Hunter was more ‘cringe’ we need more info / clarity bollox.
Anything he is spending on indy ref analysis is completely wasteful and would be better going into his other work on kids & start up initiatives.
Christ for somebody meant to be clever ? It is wearing thin.
o/t re. the new Team Scotland outfits for the Commonwealth Games…I hear that the O.O. are asking to enter the contest as British Together.
Their outfits consist of the following, men: fetching blue, red and white military style suits, three sizes too small or too big, white socks, stringy wee ties, glengarries with wee orange ribbons (bowler hats optional) shiny slip-on shoes; ladies: garish floral dresses, big hats, big handbags and white stilettoes.
Their Designer, Orangina Paisley, described the style as more ‘throwback’ than retro, employing the colonial cargo cult narrative favoured by primitives.
Most observers described them as definitely strictly 17th century chic, more ‘throw up’ than ‘throw back’.
Unfortunately, the organisers bottled the idea.
@Ian Brotherhood
Surely somebody more charming and erudite like ….
Kathy Wiles ? Think she’s free ?
I think I shall name this the Year of the Patronising Prat.
@Ian Brotherhood
Frankie Boyle might be free, I’m sure he’d be welcomed back at the BBC with open arms.
Or Frankie Boyle and Kathy Wiles co-presenting?
Better to burn out than to fade away…
yerkitbreeks says:
“I get the impression Peston felt he was giving the issue a fair hearing”
That’s my take on it as well yerkitbreeks. And I think he deserves some credit for the programme’s ending when he pointed out that economics really don’t come in to it.
Better than anything we have had from bbc Scotland.
Did notice the subliminal message with the fairy cakes. Among others.
Or we could get the same folk who’ve guest-presented HIGNFY: Brian Blessed, Bruce Forsyth…er, that’s all the ones I can remember.
It would be worth it just to hear Blessed bellowing ‘I’M NOW JOINED BY ALISTAIR DARLING!!!’
Five programmes in a row as I study overheard beginning their opening narration using the hackneyed ‘iconic.’
Peston was first: ‘Here is the iconic Forth Bridge…’
More cliches to make you spit:
That’s for sure.
The tipping point.
It ticks all the boxes.
There are not enough answers.
Can Scotland survive as an independent state?
It’s as simple as that. Variation: nothing could be simpler.
(Usually spoken after asking you to buy a product. Also used in interview by flaky MPs as in, ‘Self-governance would sink Scotland without trace … it’s as simple as that.’)
GORDON’S ALIVE?
And I think he deserves some credit for the programme’s ending when he pointed out that economics really don’t come in to it
Thats a cop out. Peston is just one more BBC propagandist but his pretence is his vote no pressure is not that important, knowing full well it is. Dispatches was an absolute disgrace though. Christ knows what uk tv people think they’re doing to Scotland.
The constant talking down, as if we are not even in the same room, listening to repeated undermining of the Scottish people. So effen one sided.
Where,s the Laird o Coocaddens Jillie’s goat a kilt fur him.
Alistair Darling
MEGO DOOM–independent tues
link to independent.co.uk
Is this the same SWA that ‘accepts’ around 70% tax on a bottle of whisky (spirits) by HMRC?
Peston is temporarily filling the shoes of his predecessor, Stephanie Flanders, who has birled round the revolving door and landed in the City working for J.P. Morgan Asset Management as chief market strategist for Europe and the UK.(Wikipedia)
Whither Peston?
Just watched Peston on bbc iplayer. Maybe I was expecting the overwhelming bbc scotland hatchet job on YES, but it wasn’t.
There were glaring omissions,but we Wingers are fully briefed,whereas many watching are less so.
I agree with other comments that he was pitching at UK level, but for undecideds there were some reassurances that we wouldn’t be any worse off than the staus quo over a 20 year period! Tony Banks from Balhousie group and Yes spokesman,very good.
Interesting the comparisons were between Alex Salmond and David Cameron.A good point made about it being about identity and who we are, rather than just core ecomonics. Hardly a mention of Better Together and poor old flipper Darling never featured.
Overall 7/10, because it was NOT a BBC Scotland based programme, which is a shameful position for our national public broadcaster.
“If Sarah Smith goes, who’s next?
Let’s think out of the box, run something up the flagpole, and see if this kite will fly…tbh, I can’t think of anyone.”
Andrew Neil has to be credible candidate, but as he is not stupid, there is a chance he might turn. Risky.
Sarah Millican?
Well it knocks the old ‘In vino veritas’ on the head doesn’t it? More ‘In spirito sactimonius’.
@ Chic McGregor
I believe Ken MacDonald or Derek Bateman are available?
The Peston programme was OK but about two months old. The Shetland Folk Festival was the start of May and when he was in Dundee you tell by the foliage on the trees.
Ian Brotherhood says
“Much the same reasoning is followed by those who refuse to attend dinner parties because they cannot prevent themselves loudly breaking wind at least once at the start and end of every course.”
OH? :0
Anybody got my invitation to the next Wings night btw?
Heedtracker says
“If poor Professor No sees his student numbers drop through the floor when his unionist chums do get back in with their austerity ”
What if he’s a Doctor?
I’ll get my mortar board and gown
Gordoz says
“Just listen to his weasel words; Tom wants certainty and honesty (coming from a business man ?? dont make me laugh).
Stick to the charitable work Tom & leave out the false flag impartial politics.”
Sorry Gordoz Im going to have to call you on that comment,
Your stifling Sir Toms right to talk absolute pish,
I know, I did a course on office etiquette just yesterday,
and we did a elearining thing on our computers about how not to talk about people behind their backs and how not to sneer at minorities,
all very laudable and progressive,
but the mood was spoiled when we were all faced with tick boxes of comments you should not use in mixed company and one of them was
“My mother was half Lebanese”
when Emma (sorry Emma) said
“How can you be Half Lesbian?
for a brief moment I did actually Gray out due to lack of oxygen!
Lochside.
Before we went into the Counting house at the first Wings night out
the wife and I found ourselves sitting on a bench under the statue in George Square, when two girls obviously on their way to a night out passed close by, and the wife asked (loudly) I take it that’s the orange walk then?
Well a didnae ken where tae pit masel
Ian says
“Or we could get the same folk who’ve guest-presented HIGNFY: Brian Blessed, Bruce Forsyth…er, that’s all the ones I can remember.”
Angus Deighton
Ian (again)
“Let’s run it up the flagpole and see who salutes.”
“Trial Balloon”
“Will it play in Peoria”
“Why don’t we set up an exploratory committee?”
“Test the water”
“see what way the wind is blowing”
“The whole ball of wax”
“Lets think out of the box”
“Going foreward” (grrrr)
HELP,
THIS THINGS NAE BRAKES,
A CANNIE STOAP IT,
HELLPPP.
I was pleasantly surprised by the Peston program. I found it to be surprisingly fair when one considers the disgraceful rubbish we get from BBC Scotland. Yes we got the usual Better together suspects spouting their pitiful arguments but what was different compared with previous programs was that YES supporters were allowed to put their point of view.
My main complaint was the mention several times of the hoary old chestnut that the oil was running out and that the tax revenues will be declining year on year.
Hiv ye seen the team Scotland uniform for the commonwealth games?
Ooh my eyes,
get me a spoon quick
Ooohh ha ha ha
I go an email from YES Scotland and a link in it took me to the shop for tee shirts and the like, and one of the pictures shows a guy in a gray tee shirt with the YES logo on it, but I swear to God that dodgy get has nicked a laptop and stuffed it up his shirt,
here, look for yourself
link to shop.yesscotland.net
correction the tee shirt says 2014
I couldn’t see for tears.
When My wife related the George Square story to someone else the person asked
“how did you know the girls were on a night out”
the wife replies
“They had nae claes oan”
Funny,
I never noticed.
Got speaking to a fellow winger at Bannockburn live who told me he was made to remove Yes stickers from his Truck before entering a distillary in Keith. The reason being that all the workforce had been told ‘if Scotland votes Yes, you are all out of work’.
Looks very much like bullying.
Exhaustive list of Distilleries in Keith
link to maltwhiskydistilleries.com
I never realised Pestonague ( medical term for pain in the arse )was so contagious.Seems that most of you are now afflicted.I have suffered for years listening to his misinformation.
how many stages removed are we from someone who has been threatened by their employer, and is it a threat that you must vote no, or yes?
I have been told by someone who works for HMRC that the staff who work there have been advised that they will all be made redundant if we vote Yes: that is, at best, unlikely: since it would mean they would get at least statutory redundancy payments and would be immediately re-employed since Scotland will need a tax system too. Neither that nor TUPE were mentioned, apparently. But of course civil servants cannot speak on the record about this. Where are their unions, if that is true, though?
What got me was the faux accusations over Visit Scotland and other public bodies being correctly advised by government that as public bodies they cannot be seen to be politically partisan and that is incompatible with their membership of the CBI.
This was right and proper. They had to resign from the CBI once it signed up on the No side. Same thing would have happened if the CBI had signed up for Yes.
I was very disappointed that the program did not point that out.
OT
but too good to miss
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they come to fight you, and then you win.” (M.K. Gandhi)
——then they build a statue of you and plonk it in Parliament Square, albeit 60 odd years after they did all the above to you.
Money talks.
I reckon it is a slam dunk that before AS dies, a long time hence I hope, there will be a statue of AS in Parliament Square, also. Him being a fine example of Westminster.
Robert Pestion
A pot pourri of piffle and disconfabulation.
George Galloway has his uses.
By asking the plain question, ‘Can Scotland survive as a nation state?’ Peston continues the unionist mantra manufacturing consent that it can not.
The question places doubt in the mind of the listener.
They are told to consider if it can, or if it can’t.
I have yet to see a documentary or a debate in which it’s as plain as the nose on your face Scotland can prosper, and that shows us the results.
think i may have posted something like this before
n% CT paid @ 100% > n% CT paid @ 0 %
Findlay Farquaharson
if they leave Scotland they will lose their geographical branding in one major importing country.
The Scotch Whisky Association, an organisation representing what are in effect legalised drug dealers, complaining very loudly to all and sundry that they are being silenced.
Never get high on your own supply is the phrase that reminds me of.
Robert Peston got one thing right,it’s all about identity, how we see ourselves.
Wee Ginger Dug –
“Independence of the mind means we no longer need to focus on the stories and spin the media tells us is the story. We can write stories of our own, we can begin to imagine the kind of country that Scotland could be, that Scotland should be, that Scotland will be. A country whose citizens think independently.”
The Scotch Whisky industry cannot up shoots and un away.
Scotch is defined by Act of Parliament, at the moment westminster, and ismprotected by an Appelation Controlee.
End of.
What these barstewards are agitating about is off shore revenues and the possibility of a Scottish Government in an independent Scotland not continuing Westminster’s easy osay Nelson’s Eye on tax matters.
He was getting his retaliation in first.
You have to give Westminster and their cronies in the press 10 out of 10 for effort on the oil (and gas) “question”.
The fact they have made this great and valuable industry with such a bright future into something questionable, volatile, certainly declining and too large for our small economy to handle ourselves takes a degree of skill (and a total brassneck).
Wow. They have spun one of our greatest assets as a liability.
We’re it true that our oil and gas reserves are declining (it’s not), surely by voting Yes the people of Scotland are in effect multiplying the remaining revenues potentially received by a factor of 10? And surely the potential bonanza already being tapped into West of Shetland and potential fields off the West Coast and in the Firths are 10 times as valuable to wee Scotland.
Of course the UK government knows all this and will do all it can to put the zap on us. Will we ever see the McCrone equivalent for the West Coast, Atlantic Margin and Firths?
For me this debate is about so much more than money but you don’t always get to choose your battlefield. The oil and gas boom (and the lies told by Westminster) is our Mons Meg – let’s not leave the field without having spent all our rounds.
Sure I saw some Panelbase poll results on here last night! Or am I finally wandering into the gloaming of life?
Peston has been caught spewing utter and complete balderdash so many times that the BBC’s claim he is their, “Expert Presenter”, quite obviously refers to some other expertise than financial matters. As a, “Presenter”, he is also quite mediocre.
I found he attended Balliol College, Oxford & Université Libre de Bruxelles. Yet, web search as I did, could find no claimed educational attainments while he was there there. I wonder why?
It strikes me that perhaps Peston’s expertise is more akin to the Broadcasting illusion created by a, Green Screen, before which the actor poses while the technical expert projects any scene from anywhere in the known Universe.
This on Robert peston, 8 years ago.
Very funny
link to thedailymash.co.uk
@Fiona
there are the other well knowns examples that have gone public, such as Barrhead travel. Yes, there’d need to be redundancy payments, but people with mortgages and other debts really don’t want to even consider their jobs going. It’s really low of businesses to threaten people this way. Of course any business that really did pull out of Scotland would find plenty of hungry competitors waiting to take their place, but try reasoning with someone who says, as my friend’s wife did: ‘That’s a fact! You can talk about uncertainty with voting No and voting Yes but it’s a fact my husband will be out of work’.
Robert Peston is a living legend but only in his own postcode; the one without a town prefix.
Glad I watched “The Armstrong Lie”. At least Armstrong admitted he lied – eventually. How long before Mr Hewitt confesses? The day after his “ennoblement”?
Peston completely failed to mention the impact on rUK’s balance of payments should there be no currency deal. Which is a central plank of the argument.
And to have Gavin McCrone interviewed without mentioning his report was a glaring omission. The tone was that every concession to indy Scotland would be down to grudging largesse from westminster.
I thought the programme was one sided pish, which as always misses the pan and hits the floor. Perhaps Peston has his eye on a BBC Governor Generalship. Or a promise even.
Hi – Watched Robert Peston – Another bit of missing info – RP mentioned the £1200 that Westminster sends to Scotland for every person should have mentioned that Scotland sends £1700 per person south. It still read as Scotland receives more than we send to London. Craig
@Rosa Alba Macdonald says: 7 July, 2014 at 10:34 pm:
“It IS always possible, if we vote Yes that the British Government declare Berwick Upon Tweed the Alternate Scotland and move everything there, I suppose”.
Matter of fact they really cannot legally do so. The wording of the treaty only transfers the administration of Berwick to England. It does not transfer the territory to England. Furthermore, treaties get broken almost as many times as they get signed.
At the end of the matter it will be the choice of the people of Berwick that decides if they wish to be part of Scotland or part of England. I would imagine that if, after independence, Scotland’s economy improves and the United Kingdom’s present austerity policies continue, (and all English Parliamentary parties have pledged to continue it), then their is no doubt the English voters will experience austerity. There may well be more than the good people of Berwick clamouring to have the borders re-drawn.
@crisiscult
My point is that HMRC staff would get redundancy payments AND continuing employment. We need tax staff whether we are in the union or not.
At present there are already plans for compulsory redundancies at HMRC and that is after a great many staff have already been shed without compulsory redundancies. So it is possible that a post independence Scotland would continue those plans and the planned redundancies will go ahead. But that is not necessary and in any case is in a different part of the forest from the threat of universal redundancy.
In the private sector it is harder to counter because any company can choose where to locate: but in the case of tax staff the proposition is ridiculous on its face
They will NOT pay redundancy to people whose jobs will continue, though under a different employer, IMO. If they do it is a great outcome for revenue staff, but it is not likely to happen. Something like TUPE is far more probable.
@ Bugger ( the Panda ) 9.51. Gonna no dey that,jist gonna
no, ah hud visions of David Icke & Peston entwined in
Transindential Unity. Two Loonies, noo there,s a good
name fur a BBC sitcom.
@geeo says: 7 July, 2014 at 10:50 pm
“Mr Darling revealed that his No camp may make a formal complaint to the Electoral Commission about allegations that the Scottish National Party threatened some businessmen with “retribution” if they spoke out against independence”.
I damned near wet myself laughing at that one, geeo.
This totally delusional nincompoop is heading for either total obscurity or a complete and final nervous breakdown. He is leader of a self-entitled organization called, “Project Fear”. A title describing a clear aim of threatening and frightening the entire electorate of Scotland into submission to the lies, deflections and false threats of his Better Together Partners in the Westminster Parliament. His demented raving and highly nervous rants on all forms of media are testament to his ever closer proximity to a total mental breakdown.
I’ll put that another way – The puir wee numptie is weel aff his gyte heid.
@heedtracker says: 7 July, 2014 at 11:13 pm
“I know its the UK thats fighting Scots indy. but its really England”.
You said a mouthful there, heedtracker, and thus highlighted the unacceptable truth that as, “The United Kingdom”, government Westminster are in fact fighting themselves. They legally represent both partners in a bipartite union of Kingdoms and thus must legally represent both equally.
Thing is that Westminster stopped being the United Kingdom parliament when they decided to change the bipartite United Kingdom legislature from that bipartite Kingdom legislation into a quadratic Country legislaton by devolving the Kingdom’s parliaments along country lines.
The United Kingdom is a union of kingdoms as its title properly describes it. It was neither the country of England nor the country of Scotland that signed the Treaty of Union. It was the Kingdoms of Scotland & England that did so.
Yet here we have the United Kingdom Government which declared itself the Parliament of England AND The Parliament of the United Kingdom, fighting as the Parliament of England. Now who was it said you cannot serve two masters?
@Chic McGregor says: 8 July, 2014 at 12:55 am
“If Sarah Smith goes, who’s next”?
Might I suggest Donald Duck? He has all the correct qualities.
Looks stupid, talks funny, walks funny, no one really understand what he says and he’s quite funny sometimes.
Most of all, though, what he says and does depends entirely upon his animators.
Never been impressed by Peston, and last night’s show rolled out pretty much as expected – complete lack of rigour, repeated canards about currency and oil potential presented as fact.
Thing is, someone like Peston probably believes he was genuinely striving for “balance”. He’s so imbued with neo-liberalist economics, Westminster values and the primacy of ‘The City’ that even if you allow his putative conclusion of an independent Scotland being “financially neutral”, his shallow analysis takes no account of the longer-term – that an electorate favouring fairer redistribution of wealth with greater democratic accountability and transparency would actually represent an investment in its people that would pay off many times over in future years.
Yes is as much about nurturing our own political culture as distinct from Westminster and, crucially, at a distance from the corrupt and corrupting tentacles of the City of London – essentially, a different sort of economics is possible.
Or in the words of Alasdair Gray: “Friends… we don’t have to live like this.”
@john king says: 8 July, 2014 at 6:12 amI
“The mood was spoiled when we were all faced with tick boxes of comments you should not use in mixed company and one of them was
“My mother was half Lebanese”
when Emma (sorry Emma) said
“How can you be Half Lesbian?”.
Err! Yes!
Or this one. My first wife and I fostered a boy. He was a bit thick and we never could make much of him. He eventually joined the army.
After a while he visited us to tell us he had met a girl and was intending to marry her. He said, “I hope ye dinna mind ’cause she’s half Phillopeeins”.
I didn’t have the bad grace to ask him what the other half was filled with.
Ian Brotherhood says:
7 July, 2014 at 11:19 pm
” should ‘Ant & Dec’ be treated (for statistical purposes) as one person, or two?”
One The reasoning being Two cheeks same erse
Hi – Watched Robert Peston – Another bit of missing info – RP mentioned the £1200 that Westminster sends to Scotland for every person should have mentioned that Scotland sends £1700 per person south. It still read as Scotland receives more than we send to London. Craig
Well said Craig Fraser. And this is why the Peston programme lost another viewer in me. Peston is Westminter through and through. So embedded in the class system style politics that he fails to see what makes the Scottish people tick. He fails to see that is why we are where we are just over two months out from a historic independence referendum at long last. Think thats why im getting ever more weary of the utter mince still being regurgitated and spewed out daily. Its way past boring now and we’ll be well rid of all the unionist propagandists come a yes vote. I hope Scotland gives them one almighty slap on the 18th september to give them their just desserts for all that theyve rained down on us attempting to break our collective will. I can tell them theyve failed to break mine. Their brainwashing is making me more resolute than ive ever been. Id rather gouge my eyes out than vote for continued Westminster rule. No wonder theyve lost all their former colonies.
My bit on Mr Pestons programme, 55 minutes of talking dodgy economics and then 5 minutes rubbishing the previous 55 minutes. So if you watch this on iplayer just jump to the last 5 minutes and save the time for something more useful.
Questions need answering. See the attached.
“https://theconversation.com/recruiting-government-advisers-to-alcohol-lobby-is-too-easy-19413”
Off topic.
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@ Andrew
This is beyond a fucking joke.
Rev, what’s the policy on spamming?