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Wings Over Scotland

Well, this should be interesting

Posted on May 22, 2014 by

An email we just got from the Office for National Statistics:

“Hello! The ONS is launching a compendium of statistics on 5 June which enables people to compare stats for Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland across subjects such as their economies and populations.”

We’re not entirely sure where they even got our address, but our curiosity’s piqued.

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244 to “Well, this should be interesting”

  1. MD says:

    Another arm of the propaganda operation.

  2. I bet it turns out Scotland/England/Wales/NI are all one big happy family. More propaganda rather than statistics.

  3. Iain More says:

    ONS. Yet another institution that discredited itself a long time ago.

  4. ianmc says:

    I bet we can’t pay for ourselves.

  5. Drew says:


  6. Les Wilson says:

    Oh there will be small good things but it will be overall negative. Why, because they all think we are too wee, to stupid………. and they will mislead to prove it.
    We will show them from September on!

  7. Truth says:


    And will the figures go back to 1707?

    If not, why not?

  8. Thepnr says:

    Next it will be an invite to Buck Palace for a bit of kneelling.

    How’d you like them apples Rev.

  9. TJenny says:

    Stu – Do you need to pay for access to this compendium, perchance?

  10. lumilumi says:

    Judging by the first few comments, indy-minded Scots are rather cynical about this…

    Maybe they got the contact details from the Electoral Commission? Just a thought.

  11. benarmine says:

    Aw rats, we’re going to be too wee aren’t we?

  12. handclapping says:

    Sounds like you need a better spam filter

  13. Jim Marshall says:

    Amazing how cynical we have all became. Immediately the thought is just what is their agenda. Mind you our cynicism is not misplaced.

  14. TJenny says:

    And why are ONS not announcing that they’ll be making it available to all, via their website?

    Maybe oor Stu’s getting the VIP Premier viewing treatment!

  15. Breastplate says:

    A beauty pageant between the component parts of the UK.
    I’m sure the timing of this is totally coincidental and I’m sure we’ll find out that Scotland is as pretty as a dog’s bum with a hat on

  16. Bill Pickford says:

    I prefer ONI to the ONS. (ODSTs and other survivors of New Mombasa will know what I mean.)

  17. RogueCoder says:

    Oh, I look forward to the completely impartial figures and analysis*.

    * Warning: may contain traces of Fear.

  18. TJenny says:

    A Google search shows that their is a current online ONS compendium comparing the different countries in the UK. Wonder how this will differ.

  19. Robert Peffers says:

    How did the, “Office of Nutty Statisticians”, manage to get your address correct, Rev Stu?

    They must be getting better at getting things right now.

  20. Tom Steele says:

    One thing for absolute sure, this is not for the benefit of the Yes campaign. The tactics of the unionists are becoming so self apparent,that nursery kids could spot it.
    This also should serve to keep us on our guard for the sneaky propaganda that chips, chips away at our resolve.

  21. Croompenstein says:

    Just in from voting, shivers doon the spine thinking how soon it will be till back making the most important vote of my life

  22. john king says:

    We’ve seen stranger things, maybe the stuff will fuel our argument, they’re not good at joined up thinking remember.

  23. lumilumi says:

    The thing about statistics is that raw data is just numbers.

    It’s what you do with them, e.g. weighting or grouping or slicing them this way and that, and most of all, the INTERPRETATION.

    Most MSM outlets will then carry the dumbed down, unionist-spun version.

    I don’t exactly have much confidence in ONS statistics because UK “accounting” is so creative that ONS probably have trouble producing national statistics that meet the quality standards of most other western industrialised countries.

    For instance, UK exports are counted at the port of exit so if Scottish goods are transported to English ports for export, they count as “English exports” from the UK. Neat. (Oh, that’s how I like my whisky. Neat, with water on the side.)

    Lots of things you can fiddle, and Westminster and Whitehall are experts at it.

  24. john king says:

    RogueCoder says
    ” Warning: may contain traces of Fear.”

    Thats NUTS! 😉

  25. Les Wilson says:

    lumilumi says:
    22 May, 2014 at 6:29 pm
    “Maybe they got the contact details from the Electoral Commission? Just a thought.”

    I am thinking more GCHQ !

  26. caz-m says:

    BBC Scotland gave us some interesting stats on Reporting Scotland tonight. Unionist Sally gave us another stark “warning”.

    If we don’t keep planting trees, then many many years, sometime in the future, Scotland will run out of trees.

    Either the guys at the Forestry Commission are utter numbskulls, that they need to be reminded by Sally when to plant a tree, or BBC Scotland think that we are all utter numbskulls.

  27. Indy_Scot says:

    I am a great believer in the concept that if you receive an unsolicited phone call from someone you do not know, trying to sell you something you do not want, then the chances are that they have more to gain from the conversation than you have.

  28. Croompenstein says:

    @Rev – thought you were ‘hiding out’ in Bath being a demagogue?, how did they get your number?

  29. scottish_skier says:

    Man that was the most far right dominated ballot paper I’ve ever found myself putting an X on.

    Britain First
    One Nation (Labour) Party…


  30. heedtracker says:

    If ONS comparing stats for Scotland and England showed even the slightest positive case for Scotland running Scotland, they certainly would not be doing this.

    This is the ukok civil service, so impartial and unbiased their top Treasury wonk Lord McPherson of godknows where, showed how corrupt they all are over his NO currency union for bad Scotland intervention. A parcel of rogues in action,

  31. frankieboy says:

    What ‘national’ are they referring to?

  32. Clootie says:

    I think a few parts of the machine will have your address by now rev.

    It’s the car parked across the street you have to worry about!

  33. Tam Jardine says:

    I’m sure their intentions are dark but if I have learnt anything from Rev Stu it is that they always hang themselves by their own statistical rope.

    The picture will be as bleak as they want to paint it but we have someone on our side who can pull their figures apart to get to the truth.

  34. DigDoug says:

    Well, you know what they say: there are liars, damned liars and the Office for National Statistics.

  35. Steve Bowers says:

    Rev , you just gotta go with…. ” Hi, my name’s Stuart, I’m 36..24..36 and a D cup, do you like my statistics !” With apologies to any ladies out there.

  36. EphemeralDeception says:

    Even of the ONS wanted to do a fair comparision it is unable to do so.

    All data relating to Scottish finances are estimates and non audited. Costs are associated to Scotland that should not be and Revenues that should be are not.

    Then there are data which has been refused to be published eg. after FOI requests concerning Scotlands contributions or GDP per Capita ( So ONS is not going to get this either.

    All they will do is cook up stats based on various sources of falsified or incomplete or estimated data with some accurate data thrown in.

  37. MJ says:

    Is this a normal time of year to release these kinds of figures? When were they last released? Is this a first of it’s kind?

  38. HandandShrimp says:


    Nothing that could be used for comparison for decades and three months before we vote they can suddenly do it.

    I may be paranoid but that doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get us.

  39. Alba4Eva says:

    Accidently came across this… “We seek a country” …enjoy 🙂

  40. HandandShrimp says:


    Did anyone see the pictures of Ed trying to eat a bacon sandwich? I don’t normally bother with the odd bad photo day but if you are going to do the “man of the people” thing it is good idea to check out you like bacon sandwiches first.

  41. JimnArlene says:

    Oh, how they will paint Scotland as the supreme “benefits scrounger”. Dirty tricks department at full tilt.

  42. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Is it because WoS ids registered with the EC?

  43. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    BTW, are the ONS in the CBI, like the BBC?

  44. Liquid Lenny says:


  45. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @HandandShrimp –

    Hilarious, but not for Labour supporters still in denial about this unelectable clown.

  46. bunter says:

    Aye SS, it was like spot the non racist party. A sign of the times and a worrying direction of travel.

  47. HandandShrimp says:

    Yes I was amazed to see that UKIP hadn’t cornered the Euro-sceptic swivel of eyed slot….Splitters!

  48. TJenny says:

    HandandShrimp + IB – isn’t it a bit cruel – is he not Jewish?

  49. Mark Coburn says:

    Speaking of piqued interest, just had official confirmation that televised media are not prepared to film me on my arrival back in Scotland. Reason cited was impartiality. Of course no one from the Better Together campaign was going to do a bike ride from Rome to Glasgow.

    But we already knew that. 😉

  50. HandandShrimp says:


    I think he went and bought the thing himself.

  51. HandandShrimp says:


    What about CNN, RT and Al Jazeera and similar?

    Impartiality hasn’t bothered the BBC so far. In fact I am sure they said they didn’t have to be impartial.

  52. Ann says:

    Scottish Skier. I was thinking exactly the same.

    Quite a shocking list.

    I really hope that knowing that “all” of these parties will get votes, that not one of them, especially the more exteme UKiP or the BNP gain a seat to represent Scotland in europe, as anything like that will be picked up and it will be said that “The Scots really aren’t any different from the rest of us.”

  53. Rory says:

    i had a good friend who worked long and hard in the ONS. She was very talented, intelligent, and dedicated to her work. She used to get regular Freedom of Information requests that took up a large part of her time. However, as people are want to do, their job pisses them off from time to time.

    What got her goat was after long hours of work answering questions from MPs and journalists, she would continually find her work utterly misquoted and misrepresented…..sound familiar?

    One example would be Post traumatic Stress Disorder in the armed forces. Where the statistics actually showed that Armed forces personal where less likely to suffer from PTSD than your average “civilian”. She was regularly faced with with MPs and journalists quoting her work to feed the fires, paper sales and to attack “sensationally and emotively”. Do you remember? about 2010 it was a big deal.

    Now, i don’t to get into a discussion of PTSD, i just merely mean to make the point. “civil servant” is not an insult, despite being a horrible way of putting it given our class history. They are regular bods, doing good work, being misrepresented and shat on from above.

    You can manipulate your own statistics, but you cant have your own facts :p

  54. Jim Thomson says:

    It’s OK folks, we’re all safe now.

    Seems that Engerland has loads of its own oil

    I look forward to a swift exit from the UK on Sept 18th now.

  55. Alex McArthur says:

    So, will we all be taking that with a pinch of salt then?

  56. Les Wilson says:

    O/T I voted today for the obvious.
    My son,went later and also did, when I put my x I did not scrutinise any of the other boxes just quickly scanned down them.
    However, my son did and under the Tory box on the form was
    ” vote Better Together “, how the F is that allowed by the E Commission?. They are not even a party.

    I will be writing them tomorrow, I suggest others look to and do the same. How can that be allowed?
    My son took a picture on his phone and will email it to me when he can,as evidence.

  57. Kev says:

    Just voted there, what happened to Labour’s enticing slogan? surely a missed opportunity to denigrate Alex Salmond?, its almost as though we’re just not worth the effort – they’d have as well just said “Yous are no genetically programmed to cross the right box”…

  58. Les Wilson says:

    Sorry correction to my last post, what they had under
    conservative Party was.

    “Scottish Conservatives vote no to Independence” not better together.
    However I feel the same as it is nothing to do with this vote, I am not even sure if “Scottish Conservatives” are a party in their own right, I do not really think so, someone will correct me.
    So I still feel that the commission should not have allowed this, it is electioneering at best bias at worst, and should not have been allowed in this Euro vote.

  59. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    WindaeHingin report from Woodside – Into the last 45minutes and it seems that end to end play has tired out the more elderly voters. Interestingly in the last few hours even a casual observer would have noticed two things. Percentage female voters to male 60/40 and age demographic definitely between 20-40years old. Indicative? Who knows. Signing off till September.

  60. Free at 63! says:

    Les Wilson

    My son had a postal vote – totally legit as he sometimes works away from home at short notice and I have brought up my boys to always vote – and he showed me that: he was totally disgusted by it, not that he would vote for them anyway.

    But I have a vague recollection that a ballot paper some years ago had ‘Alex Salmond SNP’ (or similar) at the top of a ballot paper. Can’t remember if it was Euro elections or not. If that’s correct you’d probably be better just letting it lie. Anyway how many people in Scotland are going to vote Conservative?

  61. Schrodingers Cat says:

    meanwhile scottish ukip mep hopeful entertains journalists with his party piece

    he can pull up his kilt socks without bending down doncha know

  62. Schrodingers Cat says:

    “Anyway how many people in Scotland are going to vote Conservative?”
    well ruth davidson is rumoured to be supporting them but the rest of her party is hiding in murdo frasers hoose(garden shed) hoping ukip dont get in

  63. crazycat says:

    @ Les Wilson

    The Tory box said “No to Independence” rather than “Vote Better Together”. The same slogan appeared on their leaflet.

    It seems to have become acceptable to have more than just the party’s official name on the ballot. Sometimes it’s the name of a candidate or party figure, as in “Alex Salmond for First Minister”, which I seem to remember from a previous election 🙂

  64. Kenny says:

    To be fair, I’ve had occasional dealings with the ONS and they’re mostly, well, statisticians. As a rule, serious statisticians are concerned with nothing more than accurate data. Don’t forget that the Chief Statistician has bitchslapped Iain Duncan Smith at least three times for using their data badly.

  65. crazycat says:

    I should add that at least that was relevant to the election taking actually taking place (but it was criticized at the time).

  66. crazycat says:

    “actually taking place”
    You knew what I meant.

  67. Iain Lawson says:

    Having spent at least the last year fiddling the figures we had to expect at least one publication of their work.

  68. Free at 63! says:

    Thanks crazycat – it was the Scottish list vote – in 2007?

  69. Schrodingers Cat says:

    “Alex Salmond for First Minister”,

    this put the SNP at the top of the ballot paper by dint of alphabetical order

    vote no is below ukip so i dont think they thought about this much or indeed understood the concept very well

  70. Paula Rose says:

    You can manipulate your own statistics, but you can’t have your own facts – too true Rory.

  71. lumilumi says:

    @ EphemeralDeception (7.45pm) and Rory (8.28pm)

    I tried to say similar things earlier up the thread.

    I think people here or anywhere shouldn’t blame the ONS and their workers too much. The ONS only works with what it’s given, the data gathered and pre-digested by UK government departments.

    Basically: shit in, shit out.

    I’m sure that civil servants in the ONS do their very best to make a purse out of a pig’s ear to produce national statistics at least half-way comparable to the rigorous standards of other western democracies but they’re thwarted from the start by the gov departments, and then get slated by the general public for the hugely political spin and gross simplifications put on their work by politicians and the MSM.

    Did you know that the UK doesn’t follow the same accounting practices that most of the EU countries do? It allows the UK state to hide all kinds of murky things like pension liabilities “off books”.

    No accountant in Finland would pass the books (accounts) of UK plc but that’s a cultural difference, I suppose.

  72. galamcennalath says:

    Les Wilson says:
    Sorry correction to my last post, what they had under
    conservative Party was.

    “Scottish Conservatives vote no to Independence”

    That will be UK Independence, I suppose 😉

    Seriously though, you are correct. That is just plain wrong. This is supposed to be choosing MEPs.

  73. Paula Rose says:


    Rule No 2 in the UK – 2+2 = 5.

  74. Andy-B says:

    I’d be suspicious of this contact out of the blue from the ONS, no doubt their statistics will show, Scotland will be in a terrible position after independence, and that we in Scotland should remain in the UK,if we want to prosper. I look forward to your deconstruction of their false data.

  75. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Reports around here (Cowal) of postal votes almost matching walk in votes. This might be bad news

  76. Kenny says:

    lumilumi – I think they collect a lot of their own statistics. From what I can gather, they’re a fairly independent minded lot. And they’re based in Wales, so they’re not intrinsically London- or Anglocentric. Don’t get me wrong. The proud Scots of thr BBC have proved my faith wrong enough times. But let’s wait and see what they’ve got before we criticise them too much. Maybe they’ve seen how the Rev does his analyses and want to make sure he’s watching whatever they’ve got to say…

  77. lumilumi says:

    crazycat @ 9.35pm and others

    The Tory box said “No to Independence”…

    In the UK system (FPTP or closed list PR) parties are allowed to register a “slogan” to be used in the ballot paper in addition to the party name/symbol and name of candidate.

    In 2011 the SNP registered “SNP – Alex Salmond for First Minister”, which was appropriate for Holyrood elections.

    How “No to independence” is appropriate for EURO elections, I fail to see, but then it’s the Tories being a bit naughty and campaigning for a NO vote in September in the voting booths in May.

    Finland has an open list d’Hondt PR system, so our ballot paper just has a big circle where you write the number of your preferred candidate. No party names, symbols or slogans on the ballot paper.

    A picture of a Finnish ballot paper can be seen here:

  78. bunter says:

    BBC QT preview has panel that is more right wing than a very right wing er panel, followed by preview by BBC BT ft Farage about Farage. BBC BT runs a second top story of immigration out of control. Welcome to your future in the UK.

  79. TJenny says:

    bunter – ‘BBC QT preview has panel that is more right wing’ than a big bag of right wing things. 🙂

  80. lumilumi says:

    @ Kenny (9.55pm)

    I never meant to criticise ONS workers but to defend them! 😀

    The ONS gets slated for the abuse the politicos and MSM do to their work with their political spin.

    I’m glad to hear they gather much of their own data, UK gov gathered and pre-digested data cannot be trusted.

  81. Doug Daniel says:

    That’ll be a nice birthday present for me!

  82. Schrodingers Cat says:

    just in case anyone is thinking of watching QT tonight, dont bother
    michael silvain has already seen it……….its rubbish

    Tonight, David Dimbleby presents an Election Question Time from, a posh place in the Home Counties. On the panel:

    Chris Grayling MP (factophobic shitdrone)
    Resembling the result of an ill-advised liaison between a preying mantis and a drizzle-coloured accountant, Chris Grayling is, in fact, an exoskeletal insectoid drone connected to The Hivemind by a fibrous network of barely visible money-wires and cruelty. Clad in an unconvincing, synthetic, silicon skin, Grayling’s dead, glassy eyes loll listlessly in his bulbous head as he attentively receives the instructions sent by his brood-queen. All the while, his restless mandibles chitter hungrily, longing only to fulfil their one desire: the crushing and grinding of the bones of hope.

    Cursed with a relentless and growing need to feed, in only four years Grayling has already consumed a third of the welfare budget, devoured every last crumb of legal aid, and most recently he had to resort to eating all of the books in prison. His digestive tract was designed to process flesh rather than knowledge, though, and this artificial diet has left him uncontrollably excreting a sticky, toxic, bilious waste product whenever he opens his mouth-hole. (Rumours that this only increases his chances of yet another promotion cannot currently be confirmed).
    Tristram Hunt MP (overly-buttered parpist)
    It should be so easy. It really should. On one side of the House, education is glared over by spite-powered beaky-ideologue and absurd, withered hawkling Michael Gove. His plan for education appears to be to sell off the future of every kid in the country and replace state schools with some kind of privatised theme-park based on a false memory of what the 1950s might have been like if you hadn’t ever learned anything about them. Deaf to any voice other than his own, Gove’s a kind of parody Gradgrind who treats both teachers and learning with open scorn who doesn’t even think teachers need to be qualified. And everyone hates him. So, you know. Shadow education, then. Easy, right?

    But no. Instead of easy, what we have is a honking underperformance pipe called Tristram Hunt, a man who is to education what a fart is to a feast. Having spent his entire life dining on the most exquisite banquet that human knowledge and opportunity has ever produced, the sum total of that mental nutrition seems to be belching out a monotonous, clunking management-speak that contains exactly nothing whatsoever. His entire counterargument to Gove amounts to talking out of one side of his mouth while frowning. I’m not sure if he believes this indicates either competence or dedication, but to me it just makes him look like some kind of horizontal indigestion in a suit.

    Jeremy Browne MP (souvenir plate)
    And speaking of jammily-voweled, hammy-jawed, triangle-chinned drivelwits, here’s yet another one, shinier of face than Hunt, perhaps, but only at the expense of being considerably more dim than him. Jeremy Browne, a liberal who, without irony, defended the so-called racist vans (I say so called not because I doubt the racism so much as the noun it was allocated to: vans can’t be racist; government immigration policy, it seems, can’t be anything but). Jeremy Browne, a man so incompetent that his solitary achievement in government was to be noticeably more rubbish at it than a collection of rubbish people.

    Kirstie Allsopp (blabbering, ham-faced twerp)
    On the plus side, at least it isn’t yet another demented UKIPian failing to understand that being an indignant, intolerant, insular-minded shoutist isn’t all that much different or better than being a racist. On the down side, it’s Kirstie, yet another posh-voiced self-regarding babbler who once suggested on BBCQT that the people who were suffering most from all this austerity were the poor, put upon upper-middle classes. If only she’d stopped at the word “poor” in that sentence, eh? Or just stopped entirely. And left. And never come back.

    Jack Monroe (sole example of non-rubbishness)
    Actual real person Jack Monroe has spent several years doing what no government minister in living memory has ever done in their whole life: trying to survive on the tiny amount of social security people are paid.

    So whereas IDS, say, lived rent-free in his stepdad’s multimillion pound mansion, employed his wife on an eyewateringly high tax-payer funded-wage, and claimed three times Jack’s entire JSA on expenses for stationery, Jack had to work out how to feed her family on barely £20 a week while also trying to deal with not having enough money both to eat and be able to afford to buy her son some shoes that fitted him.

    No one should have to provide first hand survival tips on how to afford basic food in the sixth richest country in the world. Jack, however, did because somehow our Government made it necessary. Her success is one of the few stories featuring the word welfare that make me proud.

    “Kirstie Allsopp (blabbering, ham-faced twerp)”
    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

  83. Peter says:

    Jackie Monroe will be entitled to a nice fat fireperson’s pension when when she turns 50. So no crying over the pseudo poor person.

  84. EphemeralDeception says:

    Lumilumi – Indeed I do not doubt the professionalism and dedication of skilled people within ONS and elsewhere. The cardsd are stacked againt them. We need to be aware of this.

    The 1st Calman report stated essentially that Fiscal autonomy and clarity of Scottish finances would lead to independence. We know why but don’t have the data. However its not the whole story either. Many London jobs are on the backs of Scottish wealth and resources.

    The best example is the Oil and Gas indirect jobs, where 450000 across the UK are dependent on this industry; yet 100,000 are based around London, far more than Aberdeen. It is like having 25% of European skiing and mountaineering jobs based in London. How can that be? Something is amiss and greatly unbalanced. Bit it is simply due to head offices, assurance, finance and UK government policy based in London.

    There will be huge financial and practical pressure for many of those jobs to move to the country of origin with independence.

    Quite simply it is very difficult to show Scotlands real wealth, even though Niall Alsen made a great analaysis of it from all the obfuscation. I think we still underestimate our wealth and potential but UK stats are never going show us in anything but a dismal light no matter the best of intentions.

    As soon as we have financial control and contribute into the UK for shared services all would be clear, so will never happen.

  85. caz-m says:

    Spare a wee thought for the Lib/Dems. There is a good chance that they could lose ALL twelve of their MEPs.

  86. bunter says:

    Aye Tjenny LOL..

  87. Free at 63! says:

    I, like many others, believe we will not see Scotland’s true wealth until after a Yes vote. And the general public will be totally shocked by how much has been hidden from us.

  88. Alba4Eva says:

    Free at 63… The boom in the Scottish economy after a YES and full independence will be like nothing Scotland has ever seen.

    If only everyone knew… if only.

  89. Alba4Eva says:

    Caz-m… I have never seen Scottish and English politics so far apart… and that’s saying something.

  90. The Man in the Jar says:

    Well this is interesting. A very positive independence article in the Telegraph of all places. I had to read it twice. It isn’t perfect but my gob is smacked. 🙂

    I got it on my phone (Flipboard) and so I don’t know how to put up a link but the article is headlined “Scottish independence: Better Together ignores the youth vote to its cost”

    The article is written by a Ted Simpson (at 5.53pm) Perhaps someone should take a screen shot before Cochers gets his hands on it.

  91. cynicalHighlander says:

    One could look on this contact as WoS getting the recognition as part of the general contribution to a normal democracy media as in giving credit where credit is due to the stes analysis. I am sure that not all of the back room boys are of the same mold as unionist politicians.

  92. Kenny says:

    Peter – that’s pretty harsh. She’s a young woman who hasn’t worked for the Fire Service for quite some time so will only get a fraction of a full pension. Who knows what their pensions will be like in 30 years anyway! Plus she took her payday from Sainsbury’s, kept just the Living Wage and donated the rest to anti-poverty charities. She deserves the respect and support of anyone on the side or people getting shafted by the DWP.

  93. Balaaargh says:

    Flipper in Dundee tonight. The Courier has tweeted from the event:

  94. heedtracker says:

    “And the general public will be totally shocked by how much has been hidden from us.”

    And one of the biggest misinforming disinforming and plain old UKOK propagandists packs it in tonight after 15 crappy years. Good bye Gordon Sweaty Brewer, don’t let the door hit you on the airse on the way out.

    PS. Sir Gordon, if possible can you not take the whole pile o shite that is Pacific Quay with you?

  95. The Man in the Jar says:

    Okay I hope this works. I haven’t used this before. 🙁

    A link to the positive article in the Telegraph.

  96. Truth says:


    I found the photos of him eating the bacon sarnie a bit of a shame really.

    He is Jewish and it probably turned his stomach eating bacon. I’m sure we’d all struggle to eat something we’ve been conditioned to think disgusting and inedible.

    When I worked in Birmingham one of my muslim colleagues looked really ill and down. I asked him what was wrong and he explained he’d just found out the brand of mints he had enjoyed for years had pork gelatin in them. He looked physically sick, to the point it was no laughing matter.

    I’m certainly no defender of religion, or of Mr Miliband, but sometimes it’s hard not to feel some compassion. Why he doesn’t just be himself and tell the “advisers” to get fucked, is beyond me. Well, it’s not really, he’s clearly an opportunist and there goes my compassion. Lol.

  97. Famous15 says:


    Now that the South East England has as much oil as is left in the North Sea I do not feel so guilty about claiming for Scotland oor oil. I now no longer have any barrier to voting proudly YES.

    I would have voted YES even if we were as poor as the Central African Republic but heyho we are rich and our neighbours are also rich so no more Scottish guilt.

  98. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Schrodinger’s Cat –


    Question Time used to be essential viewing. Now, it’s a long and very boring joke.

    Someone, FFS, do the decent thing and make sure Dimplybum ends up in the same retirement home as Bruce Forsyth – they can console one another with memories of sparkling greatness as they shuffle closer to Heaven’s Gate.

  99. TJenny says:

    IB – do you think Dimblebot is destined for Chair of BBC Trust + Paxo for QT, maybe?

  100. Paula Rose says:

    @ TJenny – we will never know as we won’t be getting the BBC in our new scorched earth Scotland.

  101. Free at 63! says:

    We’ll (hopefully) not be watching QT in an independent Scotland – we’ll have our own relevant version from SBC located in PQ without the debt they owe.

  102. TJenny says:

    Oh I don’t care because I’m sure it wont affect us in iScotland but it seems the obvious Oxbridge roll through the revolving doors of placemen in power. As opposed to them retiring quietly into the background.

  103. caz-m says:

    Brewer’s last time on Newsnight Scotland. Good riddance to him. I will not be watching his last show and I hope I NEVER see the bitter, bias, unionist bar steward ever again.

    I also hope he is the first of many at Pacific Quay that will be gone after our Independence victory.

    Start lookin up job vacancies in BBC England, ya shower of scumbags.

  104. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @TJenny –

    Heaven only knows what will happen with these people. They operate according to codes which ordinary mortals cannot begin to access let alone comprehend. I don’t doubt for a nano-second that they could replace Dimbleby with Jeremy Clarkson, Paxman with Jeffery Archer, and make it all appear utterly seamless, nay natural.

    I was reading just t’other day that Dimbleby, while on QT duty, has a method of signalling to the production team that he disapproves of a comment, thus indicating that it should be removed in the short editing interval available before broadcasting – he takes off his specs.

  105. Schrodingers Cat says:

    that wouldnt suprise me iain

  106. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @caz-m –

    Brewers’s last appearance on Newsnicht?


    Did he deliver some valedictory?

  107. caz-m says:

    Paula Rose
    “we will never know as we won’t be getting the BBC in our new scorched earth Scotland”.

    And don’t forget the trees Paula, according to slack arse Sally on Reporting Scotland, we will run out of trees sometime in the future.

    Better Together/Project Fear aren’t to good at “spreading the feel good factor”, are they.

  108. Elizabeth says:

    Gordon Brewer said at the end of Newsnicht that he would be back in a few weeks on the Sunday Politics Scotland.

  109. Grouse Beater says:

    Interesting that not so long ago Newsnight was accused of being overtly pro-SNP by the current boorish chairman of Westminster’s Scottish Select Committee – a piece of sheer nastiness on his part – another Labour thug at work – yet the fascinating aspect of his attack was its consequence.

    The inarticulate but justly angered interviewer disappeared without trace shortly afterwards.

    Lobbying machinations happen behind the scenes, perhaps?

  110. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Ian, not just Brewer, Newsnicht is gone too.

  111. TJenny says:

    Elizabeth – a case of forgotten, but not really gone. 🙂

  112. Famous15 says:

    Beware. Because better the snake you know than what is arriving on the horizon may outdo NS Scotland. I think a whole new team will arrive taking propaganda to a level never seen before on this good earth. Perhaps I have listened to Better Together’s style of fear mongering too much.

    Perhaps I am just good at reading the runes!

    Vote YES as I will not be too pleased at repeating this struggle in 2017.

  113. Grouse Beater says:

    @ Paula Rose

    we will never know as we won’t be getting the BBC in our new scorched earth Scotland

    An ambiguous statement.

    Do you imply Scotland is about to suffer extreme climate change, or about to be overrun by Nazis from darn sarf?

  114. Democracy Reborn says:

    @The Man In The Jar

    Thanks for the link to the Telegraph article. Just read it. Reasonably fair & positive for Yes, but still an oasis of cleanliness in a desert of shit as far as the Telegraph goes.

    Our capital city a “union stronghold”? Does that mean a bastion of ‘proud Scots’?

  115. Murray McCallum says:

    it was quite remarkable seeing the clip of Gordon Brewer on the first ever Newsnicht. I believe that was back when the news was run by Pathe. Gordon was wearing his demob suit. He looked very smart.

  116. Grouse Beater says:

    Excellent post from a Scot-New Zealand Kiwi on another thread pointing how little his adopted country has in the way of industry, armanents and exports, and yet by its paucity of wealth should not exist if we are to believe the dissemblers of Better Together. A point well made.

  117. Indy_Scot says:

    Ah, Newsnight Scotland, that brings back memories. I remember I used to watch that crap.

  118. caz-m says:

    “Gordon Brewer said at the end of Newsnicht that he would be back in a few weeks on the Sunday Politics Scotland”.

    Heart sinks. He just can’t take a hint, can he.

    Gordon, F**K OFF!

  119. Paula Rose says:

    @ Grouse Beater – No Dr Who, free rein for Daleks – scorched earth, simples.

  120. Grouse Beater says:

    Gordon, F**K OFF!

    Bit of a dampner if later we discover he supports independence.

  121. Liquid Lenny says:

    Spoke to young voter tonight in pub, female trying to get into uni to study Psychology.

    Voting no, one of her pals told her that we would not be allowed to use the pound, we would need our own army. We will have to set up our own education system.

    I explained about the pound, the army and Education however these scare stories are working, obviously the young lady I spoke to has been reassured and left clutching her Aye Right card, but seriously we need to get the message across to the youngsters.

  122. caz-m says:


    Prince Charles says Putin reminds him of Hitler and the Nazis.

    Well it was brought to the good Prince’s attention today that Putin’s brother was actually killed by the Nazis during the “Siege of Stalingrad” in WW2.

    Charlie, you’re a clown.

    “Not in my name”, as they say.

  123. Democracy Reborn says:

    @Grouse Beater

    Just read Brewer’s bio on Wiki. Didn’t know he was a former Trotskyist!

  124. Grouse Beater says:

    Schrodinger’s Cat
    On one side of the House, education is glared over by spite-powered beaky-ideologue and absurd, withered hawkling Michael Gove.

    I remember you when you were happy to bump along on words of one syllable. (I agree with your satire on nonentities who feel their opinions are worth offering the chattering classes, and undoubedly of greater value.)

  125. bookie from hell says:

    UKIP 30% in Sunderland


  126. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Alan Mackintosh –

    ‘…not just Brewer, Newsnicht is gone too.’

    Oh, FFS, that means I’ve only got one wish left…


  127. Grouse Beater says:

    Democracy Reborn
    Just read Brewer’s bio on Wiki. Didn’t know he was a former Trotskyist!

    See what I mean?

    Never judge a man by the cost of his haircut.

  128. caz-m says:

    Grouse Beater
    “Bit of a damper if later we discover he supports independence”

    George (Lordy) Robertson is a bigger supporter of Scottish Independence than Gordon Brewer.

  129. haud on the noo says:

    Ukip 30% no way or I give up.

  130. Grouse Beater says:

    Ukip members are ironing their black shirts at this very moment in eager anticipation of 1,000 councillors and 150 MEPs – a calculation as wild as their denials of being nonentities hoping to become fat carperbaggers.

  131. Grouse Beater says:

    “A big night for Ukip in Hull” predicts the BBC.

    Aye, and about as relevant to Scotland as one Aberdonian was to humanity, lost in the sinking of the Titanic.

  132. arranc says:

    been a lurker for 2yrs

  133. bookie from hell says:

    Cameron might hav pact with fruit cakes

  134. call me dave says:

    Naughtier on the council elections radio 5 live.
    That means I’ll fall asleep soon. ukip predicted to do well labour and libdems big losses of seats not necessary whole councils.

    Any news of Darling tonight at his meeting?

    Naughtie declares “we(BBC) are not a state broadcaster, that happens in other countries). That’s us told night all 🙂

  135. wee e says:

    Some of the Statistcics Authority assessment reports for the ONS are chockablock with serious issues. eg (No 278, on the ONS short-term GDP report says “ONS Published statement of sources is not complete”.

    Some of the GDP stats have been “experimental” since 2001! ie they have never actually been assessed.

    It’s pretty amazing that they are touting it around as a “compendium”. Their March 2013 economic report managed to “accidentally” halve Scotland’s historical rate of growth for several years past — and it took till December for the FT to notice the disparity with Scottish reports based on the same data.

    It will be interesting to see whether the Scottish statistics from Scottish sources will be included — many of these have been experimental but have now gained Statistics Authority “letter of confirmation”.

  136. StevieMcB says:

    @call me dave

    Yea heard Naughtie say then err & umm when he realised.

    More scares from more “Professors”

  137. GrahamB says:

    Some new statistics – Wednesday night’s meeting in Gartocharn (south shore of Loch Lomond, notionally Tory country) ended with YES 39, U/D 16, NO 10 at a public meeting. Best speaker was allegedly a local minister Ian Miller/Mitchell? who recently tore up his Labour membership card in front of Lord McFall and told him he felt betrayed.
    Also, thanks to the gent in Babbity Bowsters last Saturday evening (full of Sainties and Arabs getting on fine) who gave me an Aye badge. I was able to pass on my Yes badge to someone else on the train home.

  138. David Smith says:

    @Grouse Beater. I know one or two little Hitlers from Hull so I’m
    not remotely surprised at that result.

  139. Democracy Reborn says:

    Prof Curtice, English local elections : “this has not so far been a very good night for Labour”

  140. wee e says:

    @ephemeral deception
    On of the problems highlighted by the Statistics Authority in the GDP reporting — staffing.
    “These are among the most important statistics that ONS produces. But there is a risk that staff turnover affects ONS’s ability to produce high quality outputs. ONS should:
    Present evidence that its recruitment and retention arrangements ensure that appropriately skilled people are employed and retained in the production of the short-term economic output indicators, and are based on an appropriate competence framework.”

  141. Chipmonkey says:

    Is there anything recent of theirs that you could loudly debunk on the 4th of June then?

  142. joe kane says:

    Just to repeat what others have said on the thread, there is an interesting comparison which has made the news today.
    Whilst Scotland’s oil reserves are volatile and running out, according to a BBC headline the oil deposits of England and Wales are “huge” .

    Huge oil reserves in southern England, report to say

  143. Democracy Reborn says:

    English local elections : Labour currently down 14% in key wards compared to 2012.

    Ed’s promise of “one more Xmas till a Labour govt” is getting hollower every week…

  144. Peter says:

    The BBBC English council results map has Scotland and Ireland removed but still features Wales as it is still officially part of England. Well done them.

  145. Craig says:

    “In 2011 the SNP registered “SNP – Alex Salmond for First Minister”, which was appropriate for Holyrood elections.”

    They did that in 2007, and I think they were critisised and prevented from repeting it in 2011. Anyway, they didn’t need to in 2011!

    Will be interesting to know why the Electoral Commission allowed the Tories to attach a slogan this time.

  146. wee e says:

    Were the ONS offering you pre-release access? Why not ask them?

  147. Macart says:

    Just done a wee tour of some front pages in the London press. Guardian, Daily Heil, Telegraph, Times and of course a quick visit to the Beeb.

    As predicted, UKIP gains across the board. They are savaging everyone south of the border.

    There is no saving an electorate so determined to march that far right. I really never want to hear the bullshit argument on Scottish votes needed to keep Tories out ever again. As an entire nation we couldn’t stop that kind of electoral carnage. You get the governance you vote for and rUK are voting for a political spectrum I want no part of.

  148. The Man in the Jar says:

    I voted yesterday at 4:20pm. The guy on the desk told me that it had been very quiet and I was the 120th. voter. In a Village (more like a small town) like Bothwell that is a disgrace.

    I hope that those who didn’t bother voting are okay with the possibility of giving UKIP a toe-hold in Scotland. 🙁

  149. fairiefromtheearth says:

    I need a rant before bed 😉 im fed up with people getting into boxes and refusing to get out.Patrick Harvey thinks their is only enough time left on this planet to use 1/5 the oil or were all doomed. i for one was hoping the humane race would be about for 100,000s years. now we all know it will be better to move away from fossile fuels and Scotland stands in a great position, oh but the cursed oil eh just leave it in the ground no Mr Harvey the FACT is oil is used in thousands of non polluting things from clothes to drugs paints oils plastics the list is endless, i wish these supposed educated fools would stick their head out their box once in a while. 😉

  150. fairiefromtheearth says:

    oh and thats why i voted SNP and not green my first choice wasent on it but plenty of sepratist groups. 😉

  151. john king says:

    TMinJ SAYS
    “I hope that those who didn’t bother voting are okay with the possibility of giving UKIP a toe-hold in Scotland. ”

    Trouble is, those people are so disconnected that they don’t even see what’s coming down the line.

  152. Seasick Dave says:

    Can anyone point me to the interviews where the BBC demand answers from UKIP and details of their plan Bs?

    I seem to have missed them.

    Also, if you can direct me to CBI demands for answers from UKIP about the uncertainty caused to businesses due to their plans to withdraw from Europe.

    Thank you.

  153. Alastair Seago says:

    Re the discovery of billions of barrels of oil in the south of England; this will be why we are continually being told by the no’s that north sea oil is fast running out. Makes you want to stay united doesn’t it in case we run out and are left with nothing and the ruk prospers.

  154. Wp says:

    How many business leaders are telling us they will move out of London if UK votes to come out of the EU ?.

  155. john king says:

    TJenny says
    “HandandShrimp + IB – isn’t it a bit cruel – is he not Jewish?”

    Naebody forced it doon ehs neck. 🙂

    BBC news from Manchester talks about UKIP advances in EWNI
    Scottish BBC absolute radio silence?
    nothing, nada, not a cheep,
    all they manage is a cheap shot at the Scottish governments plans to bring 1 million acres back into public ownership by 2020,
    And we’re all going to die from heart attacks because medical research funding will dry up on independence,
    what I want to know is how other countries manage to support medical research without England’s support?

    The wife and I had a wee run oot in the car yesterday band ended up in Perth, so we parked in the Rodney Fitness centre car park to take a wee walk round the Rodney garden (which is quite beautiful) and passing the Kinnoul cemetery gate we saw the posters for SNP (on a post hammered into the ground) and the Lib Dems.
    The lib Dem ad was struck on the gate of the old cemetery which (justifiably in my opinion) the wife took exception to,
    pointing out it was disrespectful of such an ancient cemetery and the people inside to use the gate to their final resting place as a convenient support for their poster,
    so while I ambled on looking idly at the hostas (I love hostas) she seemed to take time to catch up, I thought nothing of it as her walkings not so good these days ,
    after a while we left the garden spiritually renewed and I noticed the Lib Dem poster had disappeared from the gate of the cemetery, I looked at her and she just smiled, then I noticed it placed carefully with its back to the path (so you couldn’t read it) against the wall,

    We walked on without a word spoken but an air of satisfied
    justification seemed to come from the old and wonderful graveyard,
    not short of respect, my wife.

  156. Dougie Bee says:

    Any bets Scotland will be getting the best deal of the four nations, or we really are TW TP and TS to do it ourselves..cant wait…xxx

  157. Macart says:

    @John King


    Only possible explanation. 😉

  158. Ken500 says:

    Just another whitewash. Black arts, dark forces.

  159. Les Wilson says:

    News BBCS 6.30 am, CBI in trouble as E.Commission confirm that their CBI form WAS signed by a senior official not a junior official. Problem for them ahead.

    News BBCS 7.00am er nothing.
    News BBC1 6.55am er nothing.
    Clear bias now!

  160. DaveDee says:

    Apparently the CBI application to register as a No campaogners wasn’t signed by a ‘relatively junior’ member of staff after all but by the CBI’s head of campaigns and its senior campaigns advisor. Who’d have thought it ?


  161. john king says:

    My thoughts exactly Mcart 🙂

    Has anyone any idea about the way the polling went yesterday as the BBC @ Pathetic Quay seem to be avoiding any mention of it?

  162. Alan Mackintosh says:

    I found this link in my FB. Britain First “invading” mosques in Cumbernauld and glasgow, handing out leaflets and bibles. FFS. Trying to stoke up trouble. And as for the bunnets, reminds me of the Goodies and “Ecky thump”

  163. Wp says:

    John King… Apparently some party called UKIP did very well in England. Was there elections in Scotland yesterday ?

  164. Ellie says:

    Forgive the OT post but I think the BBC breakfast team just won the independence debate for us, Charlie Stayte just asked Michael Gove what they were going to do if next year the Conservatives were in government with UKIP in a coalition. Someone make the posters now please.

  165. john king says:

    I’m beginning to think there weren’t 🙁

  166. Ellie says:

    The Euro results won’t be out till Sunday/Monday till all of Europe has voted, to be fair the local election results are all they have at the moment

  167. Macart says:

    @John King

    Not a peep anywhere John. Only coverage I can find is points south and that’s good or bad news depending how you look at it. 😉

  168. Les Wilson says:

    As UKIP gain ground in England, apparently from Labour, Tory and Lib Dems who look to have lost the most, UKIP are becoming more mainstream.

    This should boost the YES vote due to Scots who will not stand with UKIP policies, and disillusioned Lib Dems. Personally, I think the Lib Dems will be reduced in England to the 4th party.

  169. mr thms says:

    # DaveDee

    That the Electoral Commission knew this and nullified the application is not reassuring.

  170. “We’re not entirely sure where they even got our address …”

    Really, Stuart? Cheltenham isn’t that far from Bath, after all.

  171. bunter says:

    Now that it has been revealed that it was not the befuddled office junior of the CBI who signed the application form, but two senior executives, I await the media to pounce on this as there is a huge story to be told regards the relationship/intermesh between this discredited organisation and its funder, the equally discredited BBC.

    Sunday Herald are you brave enough to take on the British State?

  172. Ken500 says:

    One UKIP MP elected to Westminster means the accounts will be under scrutiny and the end of the Party. It is illegal to fund a Political Party with public monies. Fradge has been doing that for years.

  173. Famous15 says:

    I talked so nicely to the nice lady from the LibDems who was chasing our Euro Vote on the phone.She did not get nasty when I said I was voting SNP and my wife had now switched to SNP from LibDem.I suggested she might do the same or at least vote YES and then my wife might be tempted to return to the Liberal vote. The phone lady I am sure was nodding with agreement. (Note to self,stop watching the Mentalist)

  174. scottish_skier says:

    Well, the future of life in the union is going to come into very sharp focus over the next few days. If you wanted something to help make up minds, Nigel is obliging.


  175. Macart says:


    Does paint a pretty grim picture of the electoral future of the UK.

  176. Paul says:

    Britain first is are a breakaway group from the British National Party who became disillusioned with Nick Griffin.

  177. john king says:

    anyone seen a missing post?
    I sent it this way but it never got here. 🙁

  178. bjsalba says:

    I am not so sure that the English electorate is marching to the right.

    Sleepwalking? Possibly but I think they are actually being herded by the UK Media. Look at how much coverage Farage has had, and how much talk there has been of a protest vote.

    Was there one single shred of coverage of the UKIP manifesto – or any other manifesto?

  179. Muscleguy says:

    New Zealand exports heaps, sheepmeat, wool, dairy products, pipfruit, stonefruit, wine, seafood etc etc. And in addition Fonterra the dairy farmer co-operative company controls far more of the world trade in milkfat and derivatives than NZ exports through acquisitions and investments overseas.

    Much of the exports do not go anywhere near Europe. We sell a lot to the Middle East, sheepmeat and agricultural tech to Iran for eg. A lot of the seafood goes fresh and some alive (crayfish) to Asia and attracts high prices.

    Oh and the farmers receive no subsidies. Can you imagine? Most are part of various co-operatives to improve their standing in the marketplace. They are lean and efficient and new foreign academics in New Zealand are often amazed by intelligent conversations with NZ farmers who ring them up about their research. Most NZ farmers are graduates.

    Dinnae fash yersel about the NZ economy. It’s in fairly rude health. When we were back 18 months ago the place was buzzing, cranes everywhere, traffic etc. Many more shops in Dunedin than I ever remembered. Compared to austerity Britain it was chalk and cheese.

  180. Ken500 says:

    Even better. Vote YES

    Return a majority of SNP MP’s to Westminster in 2015. Puts Scotland is a really strong negotiating position.

    Posts are always going missing. Popularity of Wings – vast traffic. Hit or a miss.

  181. Training Day says:

    Radio ‘Scotland’ telling us that ‘we’ are now in an era of 4 party politics.

    So that’s Tories, Labour, LibDems and UKIP.

    That about covers the bases, doesn’t it, Pacific Quay?

  182. caz-m says:


    Did you notice BBC Scotland GMS wheeled in the good professor to calm the horses.

    He reminded Scots that UKIP were taking votes from the Tories in England, so there was no chance of a future Tory led Westminster Government.

    What he didn’t mention was that UKIP are taking votes from ALL THREE main English Parties.

    Meaning there was even less of a chance of a Labour led Westminster Government.

    Message to BBC Scotland and Professor Curtis, we know the wee game you are playing.

  183. Roll_On_2014 says:

    Les Wilson @ 08:13pm

    As UKIP gain ground in England, apparently from Labour, Tory and Lib Dems who look to have lost the most, UKIP are becoming more mainstream.

    Les that’s not the picture that the BBC is painting, and I have no reason to believe its not true.

  184. bjsalba says:

    Do you think that it could be frustrated ONS Statisticians (as opposed to the big shots at the top) wanting to give a heads up to someone who might interpret their laboriously collected statistics correctly?

  185. seanair says:

    Re CBI
    Glen Cambell stumbling and stuttering on GMS this morning , merely repeating the introduction by his colleague. I kept waiting for him to mention the BBC’s actions, but of course there was nothing to link CBI to BBC and our licence fee money. Had the nerve to mention that STV had given its notice to CBI but still couldn’t mention his employer. That must have been the worst piece of “journalism” I’ve ever heard. Shame on you Cambell, I hope you are reading this.

  186. heedtracker says:

    How come the BBC in Scotland isn’t reporting the UKIP wins? Bunch of weirdos, either or.

  187. Mosstrooper says:

    Heard a couple of profs discussing research funding outlined in an open letter from a bunch of Profs. Apparently independence will be disastrous for research according to Sir plummy mooth. Reasonable fight back from bod from Academics for YES but not strong enough to defeat Sir Plummy and oor GaryGMS. Can you have a look at this REV. I think this could do with your forensic diagnosis.

  188. Capella says:

    @Shrodingers Cat 10.12pm
    What a profound, insightful description of the QT panel!. I’m almost sorry I missed the programme.

  189. caz-m says:

    Foreign Secretary Douglas Alexander said the country appeared to have entered a period of “four-party politics”.

    What country would that be Douglas?

  190. ronnie anderson says:

    Rev, mibbes its wan o they games Compendiums

    up the ladder doon the Snake the Snake, ah could never get

    past the 1st level.

  191. Macart says:


    “Was there one single shred of coverage of the UKIP manifesto – or any other manifesto?

    Not a sausage near as I could tell.

    Herded I think is a good word to use here, but ultimately when you’re in that polling booth you make the decision on where to put that cross. Nige and his party have received a lot of air time and column inches over the past couple of years and their opinions are widely known on a range of subjects. Not much policy mind you, but plenty of opinion. As the press have moved further right seemingly so has the views of their readership.

    Just like us though, that readership can think and act for themselves. They can choose to go with the flow or examine, question and think. Ultimately you get the governance and representation you vote for. They’ve chosen governance by soundbite and headline.

  192. Macart says:

    Or in the case of EU elections, representation by soundbite and headline.

  193. ronnie anderson says:

    The more right wing rUK politics is good for the YES campain, so I hope Nigels party do very well come Sunday.

  194. HandandShrimp says:

    Well another morning same crap. CBI lied about “junior” staff member, EC allowed them to get off the hook. The BBC look like doing the same. The CBI is part of the No campaign and the EC needs to keep a beady eye on all their activities.

    Research grants, just another recycled scare story we have been here before with this one.

    Prof Curtice offering words of comfort and saying maybe UKIP have got a Scottish seat, it’s too early to tell. Prof Curtice did write a piece saying that Scottish social attitudes were the same a UK ones so if we don’t elect a UKIP there will be some re-positioning necessary (or some serious “ah but” waffle)

    I heard a Labour chap on about UKIP down south. His view was that the electorate are angry. I think he is right and I think Ed might be ill advised to listen to those that say UKIP are not a problem.

    There was someone saying a while back that the Yes strategists and Alex Salmond in particular were banking on just this sort of roll out of results. Alex is either very astute or very lucky (or a bit of both 🙂 )

  195. Robert Louis says:

    Given the revelations regarding the CBI having signed up to the electoral commission as a NO campaigner, with several SENIOR signatures, and NOT a ‘junior’ member of staff, as the CBI had recently stated, will the electoral commission take action, or are they as most people suspect, as much use to Scottish democracy as a chocolate teapot?

    Given that we now know the state propagandist broadcaster, the BBC are using license fee money to directly fund (21,000 pounds per year) and support the publicly stated anti independence CBI, we NEED EU observers ASAP.

  196. cynicalHighlander says:

    Grass roots on the ground.

  197. Robert Louis says:

    As regards research grants, the fact is they are allocated typically in a competitive manner, depending upon a particular expertise. For example, Edinburgh University may be better skilled and equipped to research liver regeneration than say Newcastle University, so the funding would go to Edinburgh. That is how much of the funding is allocated. Other parts of funding are allocated via direct competition, from, private companies, global or European sources, or directly by Government. Universities around the world compete for the same sources of funding in some cases. In other words, you don’t have to be in England or run by an ostensibly English parliament in order to get research funding, just ask the Germans, the Danish, the Dutch, the Swedish, the French, the Swiss, the Canadians, the USA etc..etc.

    This bullshit that research funding will cease just because Scotland becomes independent is complete and utter nonsense, courtesy of the Tory funded Project FEAR! In fact, with a Scottish Government more directly committed to research and higher education (as evidence by tuition fees policy in Scotland), I’d reckon there actually might be a substantial gain from independence.

    I have to say,. I find it sad when I see or hear of supposed academics spouting nonsense about independence. For their own research work, they would actually check sources of data, and double check supposed facts or evidence, yet too many of them in Scotland seem happy to just glibly accept what the mainstream media or Westminster feeds them regarding independence, with not even a cursory glance at ACTUAL evidence or facts. They do their academic credibility no good whatsoever.

  198. HandandShrimp says:

    While I am glad that the EC is answerable to Holyrood rather than Westminster I do agree that they should watched.

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

  199. Les Wilson says:

    Robert Louis says:

    Robert, I sent a letter to the SG yesterday about monitors, and that (a) we must have them ASAP,(b)From areas not political in line with UK. You would hope these are a given.

    Also NO further mention of the CBI calamity from Media outlets that I can find, nor any repeat of the 6.30 BBCS mention of it in the News.

    This is being buried by the media, inc our Mighty BBC, who are now obviously, as biased as hell against Scottish democracy. This just cannot go on!

  200. Democracy Reborn says:


    You’re right. Prof Curtice is a political schizophrenic.

    I watched him on BBC (in London) last night & his whole message was that Labour is meant to be the govt-in-waiting, but is nowhere where it should be at this stage in electoral cycle if it wants to secure a majority.

    He then speaks to BBC Scotland & the message becomes : UKIP aren’t really harming Labour.

    Impartial indeed!

  201. Luigi says:

    I think the Prof just says (carefully) what the BBC want to hear:

    “It’s looking bad for the SNP!”

    He who pays the piper.

  202. Les Wilson says:

    Ref University Funding grants,rUK would also exclude themselves from much of the research done in Scotland. Something we are apparently good at, the sole reason for our slightly higher grant level.

    They do nothing that is not in their interests, so we can assume it is in their interests, hence grants will continue. They simply would hate excellent developments and they do not have a hand in it.

    Further, as we become Independent would likely attract funding form other Countries not least the EU.
    All scare again, and it is bunkum!

  203. Grouse Beater says:

    @ cynicalHighlander
    Grass roots on the ground

    Do you think the photo the Telegraph uses is calculated to endear readers to the enthusiasm of youth or alienate?

  204. Croompenstein says:

    Not having a good day a mate at work said to me you willnae get independence onyway cause folk are too feart. And it’s all down to MSM especially BBC. I hope he is wrong but trying to get through to these fearties is hard, we have the scares debunked we are slapping them across the dish with truth but they are still feart. I hope FM has got some serious campaigning up his sleeve for official start of campaign.

  205. Robert Louis says:

    I know we have all had to dig deep into our pockets when we could afford to, in order to support the YES campaign in many forms, but here is one project that REALLY needs funded. These guys are full of energy and are literally lifting the people of Scotland with their energy – see here:

    Generation YES, ARE the future of Scotland.

  206. mato21 says:

    Talking about the BBC Where has Douglas Fraser gone I haven’t seen him for some time.

    Is he ill or has he been sidelined and we haven’t been told?

  207. caz-m says:

    Robert Louis
    “Given that we now know the state propagandist broadcaster, the BBC are using license fee money to directly fund (21,000 pounds per year) and support the publicly stated anti independence CBI, we NEED EU observers ASAP”

    Have a look at the CV of Sir Mike Rake, President of the CBI.

    Cancel your BT landline today, it’s a very liberating experience. And tell them why you are cancelling It.

    I also done the same thing with my GMB Union membership.

  208. bunter says:

    Just dipped into R5L phone in and it looks like the little Englanders and racists have been emboldened now that the BBC has officially classed UKIP as the 4th mainstream party. Quite a shocker.

    Its going to be interesting how the other parties react to this over the coming months.

  209. ronnie anderson says:

    Sir M Rake D Chair of Barkleys Bank, need I mention the

    Libor scandal, now the Gold Rate fixing by the 5 Big

    British Banks. doesent it make you proud to be the best of

    British hip hip dismay.

  210. caz-m says:

    UKIP really have focused the minds of everyone. It’s just the sort of ammunition we need for the official start of Referendum campaign.


    And a cheerier story to counter your story. I have just noticed another neighbour of mine with YES stickers on their car AND their front door. Brill!

    Show off those wristband, badges and stickers, it really does work.

  211. heedtracker says:

    Were there any elections yesterday at all bettertogetherBBC? Very odd non coverage going at £300+ million a year Pacific Quay. Maybe everyone’s coming in late after last nights newsnicht send off party/wake.

  212. ronnie anderson says:

    ‘Robert Louis,Am just mad about Saffron fund now stands at

    £1850. Cmon people support the Wains give them the

    confidance of our armchair support, every little helps &

    the Youth Team are out there,loud n Proud, thanks.

  213. cynicalHighlander says:

    @Grouse Beater

    No but that is their normal stance at least the reporting seems honest.

  214. Morag says:

    It’s funny. If I’m looking for Yes stickers I don’t see any, but if I stop looking, hey….

    Took cat to vet (yes, I know, but he needed a specialist), and there was a Yesmobile with huge decals parked in the road outside. Took him back for op, and it was a different car with ordinary Yes stickers in the same spot. Went into city centre yesterday evening, watching cars for stickers, saw none, but when I was looking for a parking space I suddenly saw one with two big “You Yes Yet?” posters.

    I’ve seen only one UKOK sticker this year, and that was on a house window where I went to deliver a Yes newspaper. The window overlooked the back garden and could only have been seen by people actually entering the premises.

  215. Grouse Beater says:

    @ Cynical Highlander
    No but that is their normal stance at least the reporting seems honest.

    Had it been a Kiwi All-Black rugby player holding the same mock aggressive pose all would be acceptable – eh?

  216. bunter says:

    George Alaghia to Malcolm Bruce. ”Is Nick Clegg finished as leader of the Lib Dems”.


  217. Ravelin says:

    CBI – Although it now appears that their registration with the Electoral C omission obviously wasn’t signed by a ‘junior official’ as many people would see it, as long as they stick to the line that the official wasn’t ‘authorised’ to sign the application I can’t see the Electoral Commission doing anything more about it.

    Euros – Don’t expect to hear much about these until Sunday as the count isn’t being done until then. Apparently they weren’t even allowed to do exit polls in case that affected the vote elsewhere in Europe (quite how much effect it would have I don’t know). If that’s the case I can’t see the media being allowed to report/speculate much about it. Lets just keep the fingers crossed the UKIP don’t get a seat in Scotland (I know they didn’t get a vote out of the 3 voters in my household).

  218. bookie from hell says:

    I voted Scottish Green Party

    fingers x they get 6th seat

    If UKIP win,I will be gutted for Scotland and Green Party

  219. Paul says:

    Why have us vote on the Thursday when the results are on Sunday night, Monday for N Ireland the majority of us should just vote on a Saturday then, it is too long to wait for the result.

  220. chalks says:

    BBC Scotland won’t be able to hide Labours poor performance when Ed the Red gets the dunt.

    The vultures are circling already.

  221. Luigi says:


    Apparently, since it is a European election, we have to wait for the last to vote, Italian results – Sunday evening.

  222. chalks says:


    I’ve an old school yes sticker on mine, with the saltire and nice looking yes…

    About to get another one though for the side windows as I don’t think it’s very clear….plus I’m getting jealous of cars plastered in yes stickers.

    Got one up at the front door of the house and am beginning to get wee smiles from people when they recognise the pin badge on my jacket.

    Interesting stuff, the Summer of Yes has begun.

  223. Mosstrooper says:

    @Bookie from hell

    You voted green to keep UKIP out? Did you not see the elephant in the room? Crossing ones fingers wont help.

    This was a time for tactical voting, not ones personal preferences. Good luck with that, I hope it works out for you.

  224. cynicalHighlander says:

    @Grouse Beater

    Editors choice and the journalist has to accept or P45 especially if they have a mortgage to finance, money surpasses democracy in Britain today.

  225. caz-m says:

    ronnie anderson and Robert Louis,

    Generation YES is the future and we must support them.

    Doing a great and KEEP posting reminders of how people can make donations.

  226. No no no...Yes says:

    Watched St Dougie the wee lamb (kudos to wee Ginger Dug for the name) getting interviewed about Labour’s poor performance in the English elections and he says he has ” a laser like focus” on the 2015 Election. Let’s see how it is before he says he is focussed on the referendum. He has more faces than the town clock.

    One english MP really pissed off, saying the campaign was unforgivably unprofessional, and Ed didn’t know price of basic grocery items. Guess who is in charge, St Dougie!! They will get gubbed in 2015. Ed no more, brother David will return like the messiah.

    CBI are not impartial, their Scottish chair is a Tory prospective MEP:

  227. Clarinda says:

    Bunter at 10.44am

    It was asked very early this morning which “big three leaders” would be replaced before the next WM GE if UKIP was to win large numbers of council seats. The top suggestion was that Danny Alexander could replace Nick Clegg ….? Too late to replace Mr D Cameron or the hapless Mr E Baconbuttyband apparently – so all good news really.

  228. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Is he ill or has he been sidelined and we haven’t been told?”

    He tweeted a week or so back that he’d be absent for a while for medical reasons.

  229. cearc says:


    Ach, you’re just jealous because nobody wants to plaster pictures of you with your shirt off all over the press week-in week-out.

    Personally, I prefer the smiley picture with his friend/brother but nevertheless there are elderly lady telegaph readers across the realm eyeing hubby and thinking, ‘you never looked like that with your shirt off, maybe there’s something to be said for this Independence stuff’.

  230. cearc says:


    The problem with that hypothesis is that wee Danny would have to get re-elected.

  231. Grouse Beater says:

    @ Cearc
    Ach, you’re just jealous

    Chuckle …

  232. Robert Kerr says:

    “Well hung Scottish beef”

    What’s not to like?

  233. MIdgehunter says:

    @ Paul

    Why have us vote on the Thursday when the results are on Sunday night, Monday for N Ireland the majority of us should just vote on a Saturday then, it is too long to wait for the result.

    In the UK it’s traditional to vote on a Thursday whereas nearly everywhere else in Europe votes on a Sunday.

    They believe they get a higher turnout with most people more relaxed and open to doing their civic duty. Less hassle with work interfering.

  234. Democracy Reborn says:

    Is “UKIP” not a misnomer?

    Should they not be called the United Kingdom Separatist Party?

  235. MD says:

    MSM will cherry-pick stats to suit their agenda.

  236. Arabs for Independence says:

    I also thought the lack of coverage of BBC Scotland of EU elections was very strange.

    I am so suspicious of the BBC that my immediate reaction is to think ‘what are they up to?’

  237. TJenny says:

    Hey, my post just disappeared into the ether – will this get through?

  238. TJenny says:

    post disappeared again.

  239. TJenny says:

    OK – the degfinition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly – last attempt. EU exit polls and coverage not allowed until Sunday night.

  240. TJenny says:

    Success. 🙂

  241. MIdgehunter says:

    Will this work – try no. 4

  242. MIdgehunter says:

    No. 6

    Given up..

  243. TJenny says:

    Midgehunter – have had probs with posting and refreshing pages too as they go black. Had to shut down pc and restart – still acting iffy though – DOS attacks?

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