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Wings Over Scotland

Welcome aboard!

Posted on September 01, 2023 by

There’s a “new independence plan”, we hear.

Warning: readers of this site may not find it all that new.

Mostly because it’s the exact plan this site proposed six and a half months ago.

We won’t rehash yet again the comical level of abusive scorn the likes of Pete Wishart poured on the plan at the time, how he derided Ash Regan when she adopted it for her leadership campaign, or how Wishart backed Humza Yousaf, whose strategy platform for his leadership bid was as far away from the plan as it was possible to get without actually openly opposing independence.

Nor shall we quibble about how long it’s taken to arrive at this position, and how it’s finally being proposed just as the SNP’s support is collapsing to a point where it has vanishingly little chance of success – in large part BECAUSE it took so long, and because people like Wishart have over recent years alienated so many independence supporters to the point where nothing will persuade them to vote SNP ever again.

Instead we’ll just wholeheartedly welcome this initiative – Heaven knows no greater joy than a sinner repenting, after all – and look forward to it being debated fully at the SNP conference next month, with delegates given a free vote on it to determine party policy, in line with the SNP’s constitution.

The resolution hasn’t yet been accepted for discussion, but with such senior figures behind it, it surely will be. Right?


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0 to “Welcome aboard!”

  1. Stephen OBrien

    Lols After the last 9 years of waiting I will not be holding my breath on this one. I will be very happy if its adopted but I expect to be disappointed again…..

  2. sarah

    I’m not sure I can hold my breath that long.

    And Pete Wishart still being very divisive, I see, about who will attend the SNP march instead of apologising for the SNP denigration of everybody else’s marches.

  3. AnneDon

    O/T, but related:
    The Lothian “Regional Assembly” is on Sunday in Edinburgh. Remember, these were supposed to be the replacement of National Council as a decision-making body?
    Well, this one doesn’t have decision making powers.

    However, they are cutting costs in view of the recent accounts, and no refreshments will be served to the peons who attend for the five hours.

    My OH is going out of curiosity, and to see if this is the breaking point of his party membership.

  4. Dennis Nicholson

    You should be used to it by now, Rev!

  5. Red

    Don’t ask questions, just consume independence.product, and then get excited for next independence.product.

  6. Red

    Regarding the European federast grifter meetup, I hope it pishes doon and they get eaten by midgies.

  7. dearieme

    If devolution had been a big success people would have said “Right, let’s try independence then”. But devolution has been a horrendous flop – the standards in the schools buggered, the legal system corrupted, the ferries absent, criminal men in women’s prisons, and on and on.

    The obvious conclusion is that the country would be mad to risk independence. Especially, in my opinion, since it would be a counterfeit “independence” with membership of the EU and NATO. So Scotland would enjoy lousy governance at home while being the creature of the USA and France/Germany. Madness. Sheer bloody madness.

  8. Den

    Cox out

  9. David Hannah

    Will the LGBTQIA+ asylum seekers have greater access to HIV testing under Peter’s plans?

  10. Frank Waring

    There is one gray area in this independence plan. Virtually all the money that the Scottish government has to spend on anything — services, policies, projects, defence procurement, salaries, everything, comes to it under the orders of the House of Commons. The Income Tax is collected by HMRC, etc, etc.
    The House of Commons is the democratic representative assembly of the United Kingdom, and its fundamental remit is to express and enact the will of the people of the United Kingdom as a whole. So, unless the House of Commons believed that the people of the United Kingdom as a whole agreed that Scotland should be an independent country, almost all the money flow to the Scottish government would be cut off in an afternoon.
    My hope of the way out of this bind is that a large-enough true vote for independence from Scottish voters would persuade the rest of the uk to agree: but I’m not sure that 51% would do it. 60%+ might.

  11. David Hannah

    Independence in the EU. Is not Independence. We’re now out the EU. And we don’t need to sign up to any of their wars. Happy days!

    Hepburn also needs to explain the Independent Scotland common travel area that also doesn’t exist… A common travel area that only exists in Ireland, because the laws predated the very existence of the European Union.

    There will be an EU border with checks on goods on the main highways.

  12. David Hannah

    Jamie Hepburn “probably will keep” his British citizenship…

    But “he’s not sure”

    “he hasn’t given it much thought… ”

    For the man fucking getting paid £100,000 on Independence. “he hasn’t given it much thought”

    Now Hepburn is openly lying about the EU border.

    I fully expect the EU paper to take years to come out. They won’t release the incomplete homework of lies. Not anytime soon.

    The globalist SNP rally does not speak for me. I won’t be attending the wanna be psychopath clubs word domination rally.

  13. Craig

    Why not march for independence first and then march to rejoin the EU once independent from Westminster…fuckin idiots that fall for this shit.

  14. David Hannah

    Scotland loves Eeuuu… We love you Zelensky… About as unpalatable as a Brussell sprout, on a plate of Turkey voting for Christmas.

  15. Gareth Wardell

    “Independence in the EU. Is not Independence.” Hannah 12.15

    All nations give up a small amount of sovereinty for reasons such as ‘sharing resources, trade, military peace, scientific exchange.

    Becoming an EU member again is NOT a take-it-or-leave-it blanket, EU offered deal. You negotiate conditions you feel acceptable.

    Scotland has traded with the continent for over 1,000 years. England has been at war with the continent for bloody ever.

  16. Ian McCubbin

    I won’t hold my breath. So how soon till ghey update with another new proposal.
    Sorry if I seem cynical.

  17. Luigi

    wow, the dreaded “I” word makes a re-appearance. After months of avoidance, suddenly it’s all over the place. There must be an election looming lol.

  18. James Che

    Alf Baird.

    Reference link to laws passed in Scotland, which system Would be passing and controling gender laws ?
    Laws ,legal system, UK, England, Wales, Scotland,


  19. Red

    David Hannah – have you ever met Jamie Hepburn?

    He’s thick as mince, and has never had a real job in his life. You might as well talk to a dog.

    This stuff isn’t aimed at you anyway, the SNP is now exclusively targeting the kind of people who would fall for Nigerian email scammers.

    You know, morons.

  20. PeedoffScot

    All that this proves is that FINALLY a few “senior figures” in the SNP have seen the writing on the wall. They know that they can no longer rely upon the activists and campaigners who have left their party in droves and that once made them such a formidable force at elections.

    However, this is no conversion on the road to Damascus – it is simply trying to hold together enough stokers to keep the Westminster gravy-train running for another 5 years and stopping at all stations except the one that really matters called “Independence”!

  21. John Main

    Star billing to Humza Yousaf MSP on that poster.

    Also starring Brian Cox.

    Brian will tell them, the order of presentation and the size of the font matters more than anything.

    Bet Yousaf instinctively knew that without ever having to be told.

    Bet Cox is out because as a massive star, he is not going to accept second place. Hollywood trumps Hollyrood, as I’m sure we all agree.

    Covid, my erse.

  22. Mia

    “It contends that if the SNP and other pro-independence parties secure a 50%+1 of the vote cast in a national election, then that becomes a mandate for Scotland to become an independent country with immediate effect”

    I admit I am a cynic and I have zero trust left on the SNP, so under that prerogative, I have two serious issues with the above wording:

    1. “national election”

    A “national election” is a Holyrood election. The UK is not a nation. It is a political union, therefore a UK election is a “union” election, not a “national” election.

    From that perspective, such wording would immediately (deliberately?) exclude the imminent UK general election.

    I have a problem with that.

    In my personal view, the UK general election is the most crucial one to guarantee Scotland’s independence. This is because it is the election which determines the mandate of the MPs representing Scotland in the UK parliament.

    It just happens that it is those MPs who have the power to withdraw Scotland from the union because they are the custodians of the old Scotland’s parliament.

    I therefore interpret such wording as a deceitful attempt to sneak out of independence by the back door. A vote for independence in a Holyrood election will count for nothing unless you have a majority of anti-union MPs in Westminster, who have been elected under the same mandate to immediately effect the termination of the UNion after a majority vote, and who are willing and ready to effect that mandate by withdrawing immediately from that parliament and start the divorce negotiations.

    9 years of stasis and Sturgeon’s (and now Yousaf’s) bullshit have proven to all of us that if there is something the SNP is not ready nor willing to ever effect is Scotland’s independence.

    2. A mandate for Scotland to become independent.

    These are wonderfully nice sounding words, but in my view meaningless. We have been successfully voting for 9 fucking years for a mandate to hold a referendum. But never held one because Sturgeon and Yousaf have been using every possible avenue at their disposal and fabricated excuse after excuse to hide behind and frustrate democracy.

    Anything that puts the onus on the British state, on the crown or England’s representatives to act after out vote, is completely meaningless and a waste of our time. The onus to act must be on our anti-union MPs and MSPs to spring to action.

    I do not want to see an open and meaningless expression such as “a mandate for Scotland to become independent” . I want to see a meaningful, serious wording like this:

    A combined 50%+1 of the total vote for party A, party B, party C and party D (all with the same first line in their manifesto) represents a mandate for the SNP, party A, party B, party C and party D MPs and MSPs to move their backsides off the gravy train, to immediately withdraw from Westminster (or to not swear allegiance if the 50%+1 has been obtained in a UK GE), reconvene the old Scottish parliament, invite the remaining Scottish MPs and MSPs, repeal the treaty of union and act of union with England, communicate this to the UN and Kingdom of England, request arbitration from the UN in preparation for a hostile partner, communicate this officially to the rest of the world, request entry into EFTA/Single Market and, after the minimum warning timeframe stipulated by the Vienna convention has elapsed, immediately start negotiations with the commissioners from the KIngdom of England for a fair division of assets and restablishment of Scotland’s territorial waters’ boundaries.

    THAT is what I would consider a meaningful, clear, instructive mandate. Again, a “mandate” which puts the onus to act on our partner will lead to nothing (which incidentally is rather convenient for the SNP gravy-train riders).

    The onus must be on the SNP (and other anti-union parties)’ MPs and MSPs to act. And the voters must know exactly what to expect, how and when.

    We have had enough procrastinating bullshit from the SNP for the last 9 years. We should therefore leave no back door open for the SNP gravy-train riders to sneak out through and continue to procrastinate taking us for complete fools.

    Every word of that mandate must be looked at with a magnifying glass leaving no lose ends nor gaps. These gravy train riders need to be nailed down to the commitment to independence mast (metaphorically speaking, that is) and left with no room to sneak out.

  23. Mac

    Wishart really has no shame does he. Incredible. Just another reason to shun the march of the troughers. Imagine standing shoulder to shoulder with that little creep, nauseating.

    This does touch on the big problem with the de facto referendum every election. I now hate the SNP as much as I love independence. What is more I think the weasels are using independence as a shield to protect themselves from getting annihilated by the electorate come the next election. Furthermore I know they have not got any sincere intention of ever doing it.

    So I am not voting for the SNP under any circumstances. I want to see them utterly wiped out. That would be a giant leap forward for the independence movement.

    I guess this explains Wishart’s complete lack of shame. He knows he is fucked so might as well pull out all the stops, no matter how hypocritical and two faced it looks. Dreadful little character.

    Nope, nopity, nope, not voting SNP no matter how many YES flags they wrap themselves in. I just have to glance at Pete Wishart to know it.

  24. Jockanese Wind Talker

    These unemployable no marks really are shitting themselves about getting bombed out at the next Westminster and Holyrood elections and then having to try and get a real job aren’t they!

    Still sounds like a carrot (albeit a tasty one) being dangled in front of the masses to prevent electoral defeat which will be thrown onto the pile of previously squandered mandates imho.

  25. Lorna Campbell

    There is no going bak into the EU as was. The EU has moved on, in its quest to become America’s biggest aircraft carrier, and the cost would be prohibitive, in any case. Affiliated/associated membership would make more sense now, but that would mean that we would have to stand on our own two feet, and we cannae hae that, can we?

    I wish I could believe that this march will change things, but it won’t. On the surface, it does sound as if something is happening, but what it is is till ‘woke’ to the nth degree, still insanely ‘green’ to a degree that is wholly unaffordable for most. That means that most folk out there, struggling with rising bills, will be even less interested than they are now. It’s the policies that stink, and the ideologies that lie behind them. Therein is the crux of the matter. Bringing in more ‘captured’ neeps is not going to cut the mustard. Dump the eejit policies and get back to campaigning for independence on an agenda for independence, not an agenda that believes that men can be women and that the moon is made of cheese.

    The same lunacy as we have had since late 2014 is just another step in the direction of the abyss. Richard Walker’s piece in The National today is so far removed from sense as to be non-sense. It’s not the young people per se, it’s the mad and alienating ideologies they espouse precisely because they are young and have no more sense.

    You, RW, as a middle-aged man should have a lot more sense because you have lived. These youngsters have not encountered even a 100th of the kickings that life, the greatest classroom of them all, has in store fo them.

    It is because they are young that they believe that everyone is kind and good and nice. Well, kids, they ain’t. Some have an agenda that they want you to march for, caring nothing for you, for Scotland or for independence. Life teaches us about the bad faith actors, the psychopaths, narcissists and the purely evil.

    Decent people are in the majority, without a doubt, but the small percentage of bad faith actors and the messes they create and spread for others, although they cannot outweigh all the goodness in the world, they do great harm and cause huge pain for so many. I know it comes across as patronizing, but one day the kids will grow up and become world-weary adults and realize that RW’s brand of ‘niceness’ is totally displaced and serves only to lend credence to the bad faith actors. Give me the Rev’s scathingly and searingly honest prose any day.

  26. Chris Downie

    Once again, they tie independence directly to EU membership. Once again, they ignore the fact between 35-40% of SNP voters voted Leave (mostly for very democratic reasons and/or a preference for an EEA/EFTA arrangement) despite huge pressure from Sturgeon and co. to back Remain. Independence and EU membership are two separate issues and must be treated as such.

    As a side note – and of no less significance – the EU hasn’t exactly been outwardly vocal, or overtly enthusiastic, about discussing Scotland’s prospects as an independent country and returning member. While it was perfectly understandable in 2014 that they didn’t want to interfere in the domestic issues of an existing member state, their deafening silence since 2020 must surely set alarm bells ringing among those who see a bigger picture.

  27. Bob W

    For those missing the Rev’s tweets (Xs?) due to rhat platforms restrictions, this may be of use:-

  28. Karen

    What Mia said.

    Also “The” Barrhead Boy, ha ha ha.

  29. dasBlimp

    “Cox out!”

    …I wouldn’t be surprised. Not with that lot.

  30. ross

    I support the plan but I also have a fear they’ve picked it now only in a blind panic to try saving a few seats (which probably won’t make much odds now).

    This plan should have been decided and held course during a moment of strength, not weakness. The current SNP themselves could detract and drag this very plan down by their reputation.

    We are where we are now, though. Or at least, we’ll let’s see what tack is taken…

  31. Geoff Anderson

    Do they really think we are that stupid?

    The panic is setting in. They think are-sprayed carrot is going to entice us. No matter how attractive it looks….the main purpose of a dangled carrot is that you never reach it.

    Riddoch and others are being pushed to the front to sell tomorrows March as support for Indy.

    I do not trust the SNP. I will never trust them again. I trust Wishart and slimy Dornan even less. The payroll and the TransCult are simply attending another Pride March tomorrow and the “wee people” can come along so that a few token Saltires will be on view.

    A success for the Independence Movement will be if very few people attend the special “SNP” March tomorrow. The TransCult Devolution Party have no interest in Scots so we should let them know that we want nothing to do with them.

  32. Dan

    @ Chris Downie

    Aye, there is no genuine mandate for the SNP to tie Scotland returning to self-governance with full EU membership.
    These are separate matters, and denying Scots the ability to properly determine our future regarding both these aspects is being done deliberately to blur the objective, outcome, and validity of any supposed mandate created by combing them into one campaign and democratic event.
    If their recently departed dear leader had actually acted on all her stated red lines instead of stalling and salting the ground and thus damaging the respective cohesion of both the SNP, and the wider Indy movement then we would not still be in the position we find ourselves in.

    Archived article on SNP site published in 2018.

    Last two paragraphs:

    If the UK Government does not take up this sensible and practical position, then given the strong desire of the people of Scotland to stay in the EU, the Scottish Government would pursue a differentiated approach for Scotland that would allow us to stay in the European Economic Area (EEA) as set out in Scotland’s Place in Europe.

    The SNP is strongly committed to giving Scotland a choice on our future at the end of the Brexit process. Our proposal on the European Single Market and Customs Union membership offers the strongest foundation – short of continued EU membership – should, in future Scotland choose to be independent and seek to rejoin the EU.

    So what happened that the above more sensible “strongest foundation” position to take is no longer on offer.

  33. Sven

    Geoff Anderson @ 13.28

    “Attending a Pride march”, oh how I wish you were mistaken, Geoff, but I don’t. I greatly fear that every independence demo or march from now on will be tainted by a vociferous, ill assorted bunch of Trans, Furries and general self styled “genderwoo warriors”, presenting a complete distraction from the real reason for the event.

  34. akenaton

    While ideologies expounded by Wishart Sturgeon and maniacal perverts and biology deniers remain imbedded in the “Independence Movement” I for one will not be voting for Independence.

    Never forget that were it not for the nasty Tories, we in Scotland would be suffering the indignity of trying to live and bring up our kids under the GRR and Hate Crime Bill.

  35. WingsOverFrance

    I’m done with independence and I’m done with independence supporters. Brexit has had a catastrophic effect on many Scots living in the EU, my family included. We NEED a return to FoM. Otherwise I might as well end it now as I have no viable future. Thanks guys. You must be so proud.

  36. Dave Llewellyn

    As the clock ticks closer to Wisharts
    inevitable and 10 years overdue political demise I expect to see him selling his political arse on the steps of Perth Concert Hall before adopts anything like a policy that has any chance if leading to independence so unless this latest statement is signed in the blood of his firstborn I wouldn’t hold out too much hope.

  37. Republicofscotland

    As Robert the Bruce in the movie Braveheart (played by the actor Angus MacFadyen) said to his father (played by the actor Ian Bannen).

    “I don’t want to lose faith, I want to believe”

    Sadly on this occasion I don’t believe the current SNP after all the years and mandates they’ve wasted.

    McFadyen as the Bruce, in the film ended his discussion with his father by saying to him.

    “I’ll never be on the wrong side again.”

  38. James

    Couple of new starts on late shift I see…..


    One of the «stars» at the september rally is someone who has said the following to the National newspaper.

    In the same interview, Cox said he wanted to see a “united federation” after independence. I really don’t believe that this is a break-up of the United Kingdom. I think it could be a different kind of united”, he said.
    Cox added: “I would like to see a united federation where each country comes into its own and its sense of autonomy and can contribute as a result to a united federation where everybody comes together.
    “At the moment it’s top heavy because it’s very south orientated and I feel that that needs to change, that needs to shift»

    Decoding the verbiage we have an old socialist who would perhaps be happy with the current arrangement were the balance more «equable» and more social democratic, whatever those terms signify in practice.
    SNP, the party that Switched National Priorities and is in denial about it.

  40. Republicofscotland

    “Also starring Brian Cox.

    Brian will tell them, the order of presentation and the size of the font matters more than anything.

    Bet Yousaf instinctively knew that without ever having to be told.

    Bet Cox is out because as a massive star, he is not going to accept second place. Hollywood trumps Hollyrood, as I’m sure we all agree.”

    Cox is out because he said he has Covid, however I’d imagine he realises what a bunch of twisted lying b*stards now run the SNP

  41. David Hannah

    Wings Over France, I’m sure you’ll be able to catch the return rubber dinghy back across the channel to calais.

    So many lives.

  42. David Hannah

    If you come back to Scotland and fight for Independence, you can enjoy free university education in order to get some qualifications that will give you points in other countries outwith the rock.

  43. Republicofscotland

    Help (donate) support Craig Murray as he takes his case to the UN.

  44. Red

    John Main says:
    1 September, 2023 at 12:48 pm
    Star billing to Humza Yousaf MSP on that poster.

    Also starring Brian Cox

    Judging by his co-stars, I believe this production is a sequel to Brian Cox’s magnum opus, The Ringer (2005)

  45. WingsOverFrance

    @DavidHannah. We work in France but own a place in Spain. The intention was to retire there. The theft of our FoM destroys that possibility. My wife is now on pills to deal with the depression and I can’t fix it! And I’m 58,a bit too late to re-educate myself in Scotland. It’s sickening listening to all these pro-independence folks declaring what they will or won’t join after independence when they aren’t doing anything tangible to achieve it in the first place.

  46. dramfineday

    Don’t really want to say you’re wrong Stuart and I’d like to think that’s what the conference will do BUT I foresee the proposal being subject to long and weary dialogue, so long in fact that the next GE will go whizzing past and the proposal still wont be approved for action.


    To all but the totally witless Scotland is by stealth becoming the Ireland of C21.
    A party of constitutionally, «British» conservative home rule versus an assembly of «radicals» who desire a total renewal and a complete clearing of the decaying British clutter; monarchy, aristos, Commonwealth, inherited privilege in land ownership, junk social theories and the rest.
    Enough of this reign of «poseurs».

  48. David Hannah

    I’m really sorry to hear that.

    I agree with you we should all be marching and doing something to deliver Independence.

    But Jamie Hepburn is a liar, and Humza Yousaf is a puppet on strings for Nicola Sturgeon.

    They won’t adopt Pete Wishart’s stolen wings strategy to deliver Independence. No matter how many times you plead with them.

    That’s why the Independence pretend convention delivered no coherent strategy.

    Showbiz Sturgeon’s no longer interested in her defacto plan. She didn’t even turn up.

    It’s why Kirsten Oswald shuffled the cards selectively choosing the speakers at the pretend convention.

    I’m sorry to say it. But these people have sold us down the River Clyde. Along with the ferries.

  49. David Hannah

    Kirsten Oswald, she shuffled the cards, so the SNP members weren’t allowed to ask about the strategy.

    They kicked the Independence can down the road once again until October.

    All the while, sending showbiz Sturgeon some flowers.

    They do not. They gave not. And they never will lead the Independence movement. So I won’t be attending their fake rally.

    Because they are telling lies. That’s why and it’s simply taking the passing of time, to reveal what we all know to be true.

    Turkey’s don’t vote for Christmas after all.

  50. Garrion

    If Wishart is championing this they have figured a way to fuck it up. What a revolting spineless POS.

  51. David Hannah

    It upsets me, it really does. Our lives have all been turned upside down over the past few years. We’ve had our prosperity stolen from us from one banking crisis, to brexit, to covid, to the next.

    The SNP are part of it. They abandoned us. They attacked the leader of the Independence cause. They have ignored the all under one banner rallies.

    I’m looking forward to this documentary from Shauny Boy in Sturgeonism and the gang within the political elite. These people have stolen the country from under our noses.

    The SNP have lied to us. They’ve taken the piss out of us. They’ve attacked us. They’ve ignored us for 9 years.

    The gang on stage tomorrow, the security will be off the scale £600k.

    First class limousine lifestyles driving before and after. You won’t get close they’ll be a ring of steel around the stage.

  52. John C

    I’ll be interested how many people actually turn up at the SNP party rally, sorry, independence rally, tomorrow. I’m guessing a thousand or so. Anything less than that will be beyond embarrassing though even around a thousand people will make a sad sight considering the numbers that used to turn up to rallies before the Indy movement split.

    This ‘Believe in Scotland’ bullshit sets off alarm bells too. We all know it’s an SNP party rally to convince the hardcore but when I hear politicians and their mates spouting ‘believe in Scotland/Brexit/UK, etc, the hackles on my neck rise because it’s always shorthand for people who have no idea how to enact an idea or policy but instead appeal to blind faith to get what they want. Worked for Farage and Johnson and the idea here is it works for the Nu SNP & the new generation of career activists to cling onto votes, but at the same time it appeals to a different type of blood and soil nationalist vision from those wittering on about ‘colonisers’ and shagging metaphorical unicorns.

    My fear is the independence movement is stuck. Politically we’re going nowhere, the movement is split and now it’s being monetised by the SNP, The National and associated grifters to push tacky merch, neoliberalism dressed as left wing politics and of course, Queer Theory.

    But to be positive, support for independence is still healthy enough as a starting point for any independence campaign, but until one actually starts and we have a firm date for a referendum we’re going nowhere.

  53. Wee Chid

    That picture is enough to turn one unionist. Wouldn’t piss on any of them if they were on fire.

  54. John C

    As a side note – and of no less significance – the EU hasn’t exactly been outwardly vocal, or overtly enthusiastic, about discussing Scotland’s prospects as an independent country and returning member. While it was perfectly understandable in 2014 that they didn’t want to interfere in the domestic issues of an existing member state, their deafening silence since 2020 must surely set alarm bells ringing among those who see a bigger picture.

    Why would the EU comment when the UK is still united and there’s no sign of independence even happening? Right now it’s hypothetical and frankly, UK issues aren’t a priority after Brexit. We left the EU so the EU are done with the UK. Should Scotland get a referendum then I’d expect the EU to comment in an official capacity should we win independence but til then they’re worrying about their members.

    As for tying EU membership to independence, I agree it’s wrong. It should be something discussed during an actual campaign then put to the electorate come independence but wrapping them together isn’t the way to win independence.

    For the record I think it’d be insane for an indy Scotland not to be part of the EU but we have this conversation once we’re free of the UK.

  55. David Hannah

    Last thing I’ll say. Here’s how it’s been every single day since Alex Salmond left office.

    He suggests the way forward for Independence. And the SNP do the opposite. He’s as humble as patient as a saint.

    That’s how it will go from here until 2025, 26.

    It doesn’t matter how many times you say to the SNP this is the way forward.

    They do the opposite. Because they don’t want Independence. They are actively manufacturing ways to stop Independence.

    The lying is off the scale. The level of lying. Only showbiz Sturgeon knew how to lie with a straight face… Were it not for her blink rate. The blinks revealed the guilty conscience. She can’t do anything about it. No woman in the history of Scotland has blinked at the rate of Nicola’s lying eyes.

  56. Republicofscotland

    So the conman Grant Schapps takes over from Ben Wallace as the new English defence secretary.

    Schapps has what we’ll call a very chequered business past.

    And Wallace, compared Jeremy Corbyn to Kim Philby, Wallace also received a military decoration for services that he supposedly carried out in NI, that turned out to be false.

    Both men would slide into the current SNP effortlessly.

  57. Viscount Ennui

    Den says:
    1 September, 2023 at 12:04 pm

    “Cox out”

    Well done. I have been waiting for that for several hours now.

  58. Mia

    “In the same interview, Cox said he wanted to see a “united federation” after independence”

    ‘united federation’
    mmm. That is a new one. Let me add it to the loooong list:

    Sarwar’s ‘radical federalism’

    Gordon Brown’s ‘federalism’, ‘a more federalistic option’ ‘near as possible to federalism (when it is not possible)’ and ‘a system of federal home rule’

    Kezia Dugdale’s ‘along federal lines’, ‘federalist approach’, ‘federal UK’, ‘federal union’ and ‘federal solution’

    Richard Leonard’s ‘federal Britain’

    Jim Gallagher’s ‘confederal solution’

    Farquarson’s ‘newly federal UK’

    Glyndwr Cennydd Jones’ ‘confederal federalism’,

    Alex Rowley’s ‘confederal United Kingdom’

    Labour’s ‘a more federalised country’

    Brian Cox’ ‘united federation’

    Scottish Liberal Democrat’s ‘fiscal federalism’

    Nigel Biggar’s ‘British Isles confederation’

    Gwynfor Evans’ ‘Britannic Confederation’

    Lord Wigley’s ‘federal constitution’, ‘confederal approach’, ‘confederal Britain’, ‘confederal model’

    Lord Anderson of Swansea’s ‘a more federal or quasi-federal system’

    Lord Desai’s ‘a healthy federation of some sort’

    Lord Owen’s ‘federal mechanism’, ‘federal governance’

    Baroness Bryan of Partick’s ‘federal arrangement’

    Lord Adonis’ ‘federal senate’, ‘federal second chamber’

    Lord Wigley’s ‘federal model’

    Baroness Randerson’s ‘proper federal system of devolution’

    Lord Purvis of Tweed’s ‘a more federal approach’

    Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale’s ‘towards a federal situation’

    Lord Bruce of Bennachie’s ‘something like federalism’

    Lord Wallace of Tankerness’ ‘the road to federalism’

    Each and every one of those expressions above emanate a rather overpowering stench at the old useless devolution disguised as something better.

    It is just like adding a set of tractor tyres to a motorbike and claim it is “a form of healthy tractor” or “somehting like a tractor” or “a bike with a tractorial mechanism”, or “as close as a tractor as a bike can ever be” or “a bike with a proper tractorial system”

    If Mr Cox’s views are a reflection of what the current SNP’s views are, then it is obvious the SNP is just pretending to pursue independence to bite time. The SnP is pursuing devolution under a posh name.

    Is this the kind of substandard “independence” the march tomorrow will be demanding? Are they trying to fool independence supporters into supporting (con)federalism by the back door?

    By the way, the discussions around “federalism” have intensified among unionist think-tanks, the HoC and HoLs during the last few years.

    Is this what the political fraud Sturgeon (and now Yousaf) betrayed us in exchange of?

    Did Sturgeon neutered the SNP, betrayed yes voters and deceived us all for 9 years with a carrot for a referendum she knew she would never deliver?

    Did she sold the SNP and Scotland for the bargain of a couple of selfies and the promise of ‘a proper federal system of devolution’?

  59. PacMan

    So Cox wants a ‘united federation’?

    Think he is still living on a movie set or watching too much Star Trek.

  60. Luigi

    Folks, we are now, most definitely, at the stage where the main factor holding back Scottish independence is the Scottish National Party. A horrendous state of affairs for sure, but maybe it was always going to happen this way. As Irish history demonstrates, freedom from colonisation is a long, frustrating struggle. It’s already been said by some, implied by others. But worth repeating for those still in denial. As long as it takes.

  61. George Ferguson

    @Viscount Ennui 4:44pm
    I can guarantee that Cox campaigned for Independence during the campaign in 2014. I stood beside him in front of about 100 members of the UK press. He is a fellow Dundonian so I connected with him straight away. He gets criticism for having one foot in the Labour camp, given his history. But he is a genuine Independence supporter. 9 years on I don’t know where his political allegiance is now. If Alba don’t stand in my constituency I will vote Labour in the GE. Independence will only advance when the SNP have no power. But he is an advocate of the betterment of the Scottish people. I wish him well.

  62. sam

    Off topic.

    The Green Party (E&W) is currently awaiting the outome of a tribunal claim by Shahrar Ali who claims that he was removed form his senior post because of his gender critical views.

    Very usefully someone Tribunal Tweets tries to give a running commentary on the tribunal hearing (endorsed by the judge.

    If you wish to read her tweets about the case you can find them at X or on Tribunal Tweets’ thread reader.

    Decision in October. GP senior people roasted.Going down in flames.

  63. Beauvais

    The rally poster says “More Guests TBC”.

    Does TBC stand for To Be Cajoled?

  64. Red

    WingsOverFrance says:
    1 September, 2023 at 3:16 pm
    @DavidHannah. We work in France but own a place in Spain.

    It’s a hard life, but somehow, I think you’ll survive.

    Thoughts and prayers!

    Wee Chid says:
    1 September, 2023 at 4:28 pm
    That picture is enough to turn one unionist. Wouldn’t piss on any of them if they were on fire.

    I’d help out if they weren’t on fire.

  65. robertkknight


    “If Mr Cox’s views are a reflection of what the current SNP’s views are, then it is obvious the SNP is just pretending to pursue independence to bide time. The SnP is pursuing devolution under a posh name.”

    The SNP is only interested in the SNP bank balance.

    Devo-Max is what they’re after so they can continue getting M£1.2 from Westminster to grease the wheels of Party HQ.

    The useful idiots will still tow the party line that Indy is within reach, but those less myopic can see right through the charade.

    SNP out!


    The «independence charlatans» are those who want the status quo but somehow nuanced to suit their particular interest. No problem with what they actually want, they are entitled to their desires but they must not be allowed to hitch a ride on the «true independence» vehicle.
    Rather too many of the latter seem to have been converted to independence by factors that have little to do with freeing Scotland from its current situation of cultural marginalization and political dependency.

  67. robertkknight


    “Does TBC stand for To Be Cajoled”

    Nah… “To Be Conned”

  68. Mia

    “Folks, we are now, most definitely, at the stage where the main factor holding back Scottish independence is the Scottish National Party”

    Sadly, we have been at that stage since the political fraud Sturgeon took over from Mr Salmond in November 2014.

    The most clear piece of evidence is that the first thing she did was poo-pooing all over the SNP constitution and claiming ‘a vote for the SNP was not a vote for independence nor even for a referendum’.

    She did this AFTER the polls were putting support for independence above 50% and were predicting an SNP landslide win with a take of more than 50 MPs in the GE2015.

    Looking retrospectively, this comes across as a very clear and deliberate move to prevent independence in preparation for Brexit.

    Effectively, what this political fraud did was to show the uttermost contempt for the people of Scotland’s democratic will and proceeded to save the union by rendering our SNP majorities useless.

    To ensure they remained useless so the VIP taxdodgers’ brexit could stand a chance, she disembowelled the party and destroyed its democratic structures. All while dangling carrots in front of our noses while stabbing the yes movement on the back.

    The period of time from 8 May 2015 to the day after the EU referendum was the most critical point in UK political history.

    This is because with our majorities, Scotland had in its hands the power, not only to terminate the union, but to stop the EU referendum on its tracks and totally derail the VIP taxdodgers’ brexit.

    After her actions since she took over in 2014, which clearly present her as a dishonest devolutionist actively abusing her position of power to deceive pro-independence voters while blocking independence, I have now began to wonder until what point this political fraud might have already worked towards frustrating the chances of yes before the 2014 referendum.

  69. Mia

    “Does TBC stand for To Be Cajoled?”

    To be conned?

  70. Stoker

    Anything with Pete Pishfart’s name to it gets treated with the contempt it deserves by me. Anyway, where’s wee Deviant Doris? Why is he not on the promo poster beside his glaikit ‘Green’ sidekick?

  71. Anton Decadent

    Patrick Harvie is to self identify as Brian Cox tomorrow and anyone who disputes him being Brian Cox will be promptly arrested by the thought police.

  72. Johnlm

    A bit of dilemma for the cops tomorrow.

    Do they overcount the attendance to shore up the Federasts,

    Or, do they undercount, as usual, to damage Indy?

  73. twathater

    I’m with Mia and Mac I couldn’t hold back enough bile to vote for the Scottish Nonce Party

    As Stu repeats endlessly when people show you who they are BELIEVE THEM

    As others have said this is an example of SPHINCTER panic by the scum troughing tractors who have slurped sloppily and greedily from REAL independence supporters for 9 years whilst IGNORING any and all opportunities to deliver a death blow to a weakened and vulnerable wm
    As usual they are not listening to ordinary people THEY have decided again that our opinions are WORTHLESS, THEY have decided that independence for Scotland is HOGTIED to EU readmission , 2016 was 7 years ago and as we all know THINGS CHANGE, the EU then is not the EU now, democracy in the EU has changed radically and not for the good

    I cannot forgive or forget their blatant and open attacks on our womenfolk especially our children, their pandering to sexual deviants and perverts despite the obvious threats to the safety and security of the most vulnerable in our society our future generations, our children

    I am disappointed (not really) that Joanna Cherry has seen fit to involve herself in this ongoing charade of lies and false promises , has she been hiding under a rock for the last 9 years and missed the endless unfulfilled and lying failed promises of the previous party leader and her continuity unelected replacement, where is her integrity in going along with this deliberate false narrative

  74. Andrew Morton


    The SNP hierarchy are less trustworthy than Vladimir Putin.

  75. 1971Thistle

    Well, you couldn’t adopt such a policy before tanking the SNP vote first. Otherwise, it might have succeeded, which would have been no good for the grifters at all… (which presumably is also why it’s only ‘SNP votes’)

  76. Mia

    “The SNP is only interested in the SNP bank balance”

    mmm. I am not sure. If they were interested in the SNP’s bank balance they would have never allowed the political fraud and her husband to leave the party with a humongous £800,000 hole in its finances and a going concern notice from the auditors.

    If they are interested in any balance it has to be that of the gravy train riders’ personal accounts.

    By the way, here is a silly question. With a deficit of £800,000, a membership running for the hills and branches disappearing fast, if the current investigation on the SNP finances ends up in court, how on earth are they going to pay for the legal costs? I don’t remember much in terms of saleable assets (other than the campervan) in the statement of financial position?

    “Devo-Max is what they’re after so they can continue getting M£1.2 from Westminster to grease the wheels of Party HQ”

    I agree 100%. I am convinced the political fraud sold us sometime in 2014 and cut a deal with England’s parties, even before the GE took place.

    In my own opinion, all what she was doing for the last 9 years, and continued by Yousaf, has been to frustrate and contain the yes movement to stop it progressing beyond 50% in the polls. Keeping us on a leash, basically.

    Should the polls reveal a consistent support for independence above 50% and they would no longer be able to sell us (and the world) “devo max”, “quasi-federalism”, “a form of confederation” or whatever brand they select to label Labour’s choice of devolution for Scotland, as “the will of the Scottish people”.

    Judging by the persistent and stubborn percentage in support for independence since 2014, which is happening despite Sturgeons woeful performance, the vicious persecution of yes supporters by the COPFS, the collusion with the Greens, Labour and Libdems to damp the toxic self-id threat on Scotland’s women and children, and despite Yousaf’s total lack of backbone, charisma and appeal, it seems the window of opportunity for the British state to implement this enhanced devolution as an emergency damage limitation deployment is closing fast.

    In my view, they were relying on yes voters either being disinfranchised or having nowhere to go. But, while the collapse of the SNP seems to be fast approaching (in my view engineered that way), we now have other options, like the ISP or Alba.

    Once the SNP collapses at the GE, it won’t take long for the yes voters to move elsewhere.

    “SNP out!”

  77. Kev

    Nothing but a desperate attempt to get gullible indy supporters out to vote and re-elect this useless shower at the next election. They can fuck right off.

  78. James Che


    They are not custodian of the old Scottish parliament because the Scottish parliament ceased to exist and was extinguished by the terms and conditions of treaty itself in 1707,
    It is in ” WRITING ” and for the rest of the world to view for at least the past two years on the UK parliament site.

    So the Scottish parliament was extinguished from the treaty of union as soon as both parliaments ratified the agreement,
    The devolved parliament sent into Scotland comes solely under, and the only “remaining” Parliament in the treaty of non parliamentary union, which is the English parliament of Westminster pretending and self proclaimed itself as the Great British parliament, – Every thing after 1707 even the devolved government in Scotland is Englands, hence Crown laws,legislation and Statues

    Why do Scots not get the Scam.
    If the Devolved parliament is Westminsters legislation view of Scotland as a Colony.
    Whom do you think were Custodians of the Scottish parliament for the past 300 years before devolution?
    With the Scottish 1707 parliament extinguished from the treaty as early as 1707.

  79. Derek

    “People not going to the march and rally…” = bad, presumably.

    Some of us have work to go to, ya pompous trougher.

  80. James Che

    The great british parliament came into being…. after both parliaments ” ratified that the Scottish parliament would be extinguished as agreed in the terms of agreement ” from the possibility of new parliaments ever joining.

    Etymology and time lines count as to what was agreed between the two parliaments, once ratified and what would not happen by both parties.

    The 1707 Scottish parliament as a extinguished parliament to the treaty leaves only the parliament of England existing in the treaty.

    However after that 1707 date the parliament in Scotland “Sine Die’d”, adjourned in Scotland under Scots laws
    The monarchs position as head differed between England and Scotland in 1707,
    The monarch at the time was monarch of the Country of England and annexed Wales under the laws of England.
    But was ” not” monarch of the ” Country ” of Scotland under Scots law .

    And legally could not sign the treaty of union on behalf of The Country of Scotland.
    This information can be found on Salvo’s site.

    Records imply that England and its presumption that it had captured the Country and parliament of Scotland is a fallacy,
    It actually extinguished the Scottish parliament from the treaty by terms of agreement to the treaty which was then ratified.
    The custodians of the Scottish parliament is the people and nation Scotland since 1707.

  81. 100%Yes

    The Idea of being stood next to that any of shower.

    The ones who call themselves Scots wouldn’t put Scotland before their wallets or purses.

  82. 100%Yes

    The Idea of being stood next to that any of that shower.

    The ones who call themselves Scots wouldn’t put Scotland before their wallets or purses.

  83. Merganser

    Linking independence with rejoining the EU is a typical dishonest SNP strategy.

    They know that it will attract votes from a substantial number of people, whilst knowing that there is no prospect whatever of it happening. It is of course the last thing they would want given the direction in which Europe is heading.

    So it helps them get back into office (again) safe in the knowledge that Europe will not accept Scotland back in the EU.

    It is just a contnuation of the fraud which has been the hallmark of the SNP since 2014. It has every sign of being another success for them at the expense of genuine independence seekers.

    The SNP just wants power. The power to do what it wants, under the disguise of independence and EU membership as their objectives.

    So same old carrots. New donkeys in front of which to dangle them. How do I know? Two words: Angus Robertson.

  84. 100%Yes

    One of these Days Pete Carrot’s mouth will cost him a lot of money and I hope it ain’t to far off. If there is anyone who causes division its him.

    I totally dislike that Riddock she so full of her own importance at leased she made a good living out of saying she want Independence she’ll be happy if it never happens, as for Cox I thought he wanted a federal state with Mr Sturgeon running it.

    I’ve got more respect for George Galloway than I have for the ones I know on that list.

  85. Kcor

    The SNP is dead.

    Long live ALBA (without getting corrupted).

    The likes of Cherry and Regan should not be welcomed into ALBA – it is far too late. They have put their lucrative careers ahead of independence.

  86. Mac

    Huh, thinking about it, I also have a lot more respect for George Galloway than most of the SNP. And I really don’t like George Galloway. As an ex-Hillhead constituent I voted for Roy Jenkins in 1987. The start of long long series of political disappointments…

  87. Cherrybank

    Colette Walker has been selected as the ISP candidate for the Rutherglen-West Hamilton by-election and is currently running a crowdfunder to raise the necessary funds.

  88. Ian Brotherhood

    Pete Wishart
    They are truly horrific. The Wings cult is surely the most extraordinary and embarrassing thing the Yes movement has to endure. The absolute worst of us.…

  89. Dorothy Devine

    IanB , it seems the stalwarts of the SNP have no mirrors or like vampires ,no reflection.

  90. Dan

    @ Ian Brotherhood

    Ach, over the years he’s tweeted so much that turned out to be utter pish that you can’t trust a thing the bloke says.
    As an example: It’s been an awfy quiet campaign seeing as he stated there was going to be a referendum in just over 6 weeks time.

    And that tweet archived for posterity.

  91. PacMan

    Ian Brotherhood @ 1 September, 2023 at 9:07 pm

    Pete Wishart
    They are truly horrific. The Wings cult is surely the most extraordinary and embarrassing thing the Yes movement has to endure. The absolute worst of us.…

    I believe the tweet is referring to this article:

    I could barely read through through the article and had to skim through a lot of it.

    I can’t help but feel that the writer and the audience that is article is aimed at is stuck in the past and wallowing in nostalgia.

    More worryingly though the author is trying to cherry pick the past and ‘retrofitting’ it in order to frame it into today’s context to fit the narrative he is pushing.

    Trying to equate the androgyny image of Seventies music icons to the Transgender movement of today is disingenuous.

    We simply don’t know what the motivations of the Seventies icons where in having these images. Was it genuinely to be gender-fluid? Was it to be rebellious against the norms represented by the then older generation? Was is it simply a way of standing out and be different from their peers?

    Simply put, society back then was totally different from what it is now and you can’t compare the era with today’s one.

    It’s nothing but spin playing on nostalgia and old memories on a generation who should know better.

  92. President Xiden

    Can I suggest we campaign for independence from Patrick Harvey and Lorna Slater?

  93. Mac

    Old School SNP folk were much more intellectual. You could strongly disagree with them but never was it ever personal.

    You compare that decades long tradition of intellectual quality to the intellectual vacuum of Wishart… it is tragic. He has no intellectual consistency.

    Saying one thing today and the complete opposite tomorrow, stealing ideas he just condemned whenever it is politically expedient. Stealing ideas in the most shameful way and smirking like a wee wank while he does it…

    He is grifter and an obvious one. Always was.

  94. Ian Brotherhood

    @Dorothy Devine & Dan –

    As Rev has noted throughout the day, there appears to be evidence of actual panic now. Riddoch’s dire article in The National, now Wishart’s tweeting that this place is a cult.

    The attendance in Edinburgh tomorrow will have to be counted closely.

    FWIW, I don’t know anyone even vaguely interested in attending.

  95. ben madigan

    @ Cherrybank who said :

    “Colette Walker has been selected as the ISP candidate for the Rutherglen-West Hamilton by-election and is currently running a crowdfunder to raise the necessary funds.”

    Colette Walker (ISP) is, AFAIK, the first Scottish candidate to stand on an abstentionist ticket. If she wins, she wil not take her seat in Westminster, she will not swear allegiance to KCIII and his heirs, she will not get any Westminster salary.

    She will certainly throw a large stone into the stagnant waters of Scottish politics.
    So please do support her

    The crowdfunding has reached £1.440 of its £2,000 stretch target

    If you can afford it without hardship, make a donation and spread the link around all your contacts, asking them to do likewise.
    If you can’t, spread the link around all your contacts anyway.Some or all of them may be able to make a donation.
    As they say “every little helps”

  96. Casper1066

    Amazing the impact of losing your job can make some people say eh.

    Mr Slippers, ass is squeaking.

  97. ben madigan

    @Cherrybank who said at 8:49 pm:
    “Colette Walker has been selected as the ISP candidate for the Rutherglen-West Hamilton by-election and is currently running a crowdfunder to raise the necessary funds”.

    The ISP the crowdfunder has now reached £1.440 and the target has been stretched to £2,000.

    Come on Wingers. Do what you can.
    If you can afford it without hardship, make a donation and pass the link around all your contacts.Some of them may be able to donate. And ask them to spread the word
    If you can’t donate, pass the link around all your contacts. Some of them may be able to donate. And ask them to spread the word

    Remember if successful, Colette Walker will not take her seat in Westminster, she will not swear allegiance to KCIII and she will not take any salary

    Anyone in Rutherglen ready and willing to campaign and see if Scots can get Colette Walker elected as abstentionist MP, for the 1st time in Scottish history?

    Her election will certainly throw a rock into the stagnant waters of Scottish politics

  98. ben madigan

    PS here’s the link for the Colette Walker, ISP crowdfunding for the 1st Scottish abstentionist MP in history!–hamilton-west-by-election/backers#start

  99. Geoff Anderson

    Will we have a report on the numbers tomorrow?
    I’m hoping for under 500. That will be including the 300 on another Pride March.

  100. ben madigan

    PS Here’s the link to support Colette Walker (ISP) in Rutherglen – the only Scot to stand on an abstentionist ticket!

    Wingers, please do what you can!–hamilton-west-by-election/backers#start

  101. GM

    Ben Madigan.

    Good man.

  102. David Hannah

    Well done to the blade runners in London. Not all heroes wear capes.

    People power. The fightback against the low emission zone, poll tax.

    The Londoners are smashing up and destroying Sadiq Khan’s spy cameras.

    We need to smash up ours. Smash them up into smithereens. Chief Mammy’s israeli military surveillance system in Glasgow.

    Probably installed due Nicola’s paranoia.

    Smash the fucking lot of them up. Time for anarchy this weekend before a ball is kicked!

  103. David Hannah

    At least 450 out of 1762 newly installed cameras in London have been destroyed.

    And they are all wokies in London.

    Susan Aitken better cough up the £1 million she’s siezed…

    Support the nurses and doctors and hospital workers of thd Glasgow Royal.

    Support the working class people of Townhead in the city centre.

    Tell loopy lorna Slater, and Patrick Harvie – the deviant – to stick their ULEZ up their arse.

  104. Willie

    To change the tack a little how many have heard of RAAC or reinforced autoclaved reinforced concrete.

    It’s a relatively lightweight concrete that was extensively used in the 70s,80s and early 90s in public buildings like schools.

    But there is a problem. Around 1995.structural engineers identified the issue that the material could be prone to structural deterioration and failure over a very short lifespan of what has now been established to be around 25 to 30 years.

    And now with structural failures of beams and other components and with the HSE having advised that the material is prone to sudden failure the Government in England has just ordered the closure of some 104 schools in England.

    Hugely disruptive on that around hundreds of thousands of school pupils will be able to return to their schools, but action deemed essential for safety.

    And in Scotland, with its do nothing government, the SG have in response to the chaos in England simply issued a statement to say that they’ve identified 35 schools with RAAC.

    As a parent that is not good enough. I’d want the minister to issue an assurance that the schools are safe. Especially since around ten years ago parents in Scotland became only too well aware of bad unsafe construction when a wall collapsed killing a child.

    But we know from back then that the schools were not safe, walls on many many schools had structural defects, and we also know that more recently there has been an issue with cladding systems not least Grenfell and or the recent January 2023 emergency closure of the new Anniesland college where windows and cladding were falling of and the building was structurally unsafe.

    So speak up our woke spin meister SNP minister. Tell us, assure us that these 35 schools and other public buildings are safe.

  105. PhilM

    Apparently Richard Walker has been reading Wings BLT…
    His article is so full of misdirection, it would take an article five times as long to correct what it says.
    Example: here is a quote from his revisionist nonsense:
    “Even its critics would admit that the SNP did everything in its power to advance the case for a second independence referendum, the “gold standard” for making such a decision.”
    Dear, dear…
    The problem is everyone knows these words to be false. If SNP annual conference after SNP annual conference could not even debate independence, is it really likely that such a party could have come remotely near doing everything in its power to advance the case for IndyRef2?
    The answer is of course not…but what would motivate anyone to say such a stupid thing?
    “Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.”
    Richard Walker invents from his own imagination a kind of critic who isn’t a critic but who manages to agree with about as specious a political observation as is possible to make in our current political climate. Provide no evidence, just assert an untruth which it is hoped if repeated enough will become a false truism which the herd will repeat until it becomes the received wisdom.
    For the SNP now it’s all about control. Scots, at this point in our journey towards regaining our sovereignty, do not need to be controlled. We are actually better than that…

  106. Breeks

    PhilM says:
    2 September, 2023 at 5:05 am

    Apparently Richard Walker ….
    “Even its critics would admit that the SNP did everything in its power to advance the case for a second independence referendum, the “gold standard” for making such a decision.”

    Unadulterated, unequivocal gaslighting; a brazen and despicable lie trumpeted as if it was the gospel truth.

    For Richard Walker, read Winston Smith, the fictional rewriter of history employed by the Minitrue, (Ministry of Truth), in George Orwell’s 1984.

    “”WAR IS PEACE.”


    Did they, aye?

  107. Robert Hughes


    Aye , that’s right , so they did . n Dick Dubya’s maw’s goat a knob n his da is a successful Avon salespersonage . They both work in the Independence Industry – like Dick Dubya he/himself .

    It’s great now that truth is non-binary . You can just say anything n – as everyone else is pretending to be something/one they’re not – no one will dispute what you’re saying . Only bigots ask questions .

    I think people ( bigots ) don’t realise the tremendous effort and self-sacrifice it took for Feminist-to-her-book-contract n contemporary Joan of Arc – Nickers Stoogeon – to amass that vast collection of selfies , get her mug on the cover of Vogue , skilfully negotiate that amazing Fuck All From Brexit deal , steer the Independence Movement into a nice , leafy cul-de-sac etc , etc etc – all while wearing shoes that only cost around £700 – each ! We didn’t deserve her . We REALLY didn’t .

    Anyway , see y’all at the fancy dress parade later .

    Be There Or Be A Bigot . Mwah , mwah xxx

  108. Morgatron

    I still think Hell Raiser was far away Sweet better song compared to Blockbuster with Fox on the Run a close third for the intro alone.

  109. Willie

    Not that I suspect there will be many at the SNP’s prentend parade today one wonder what colour it will be.

    If the comment vote any colour but Green ( and or that a SG minister or his party is deviant) can get you arrested and charged, folks need to be very careful in this nu-SNP landscape.

    Marion Millar was charged and put through the mill for a poster of the proverbial Yellow ribbon around a tree.

    And we know that our First Minister has raged about Whtes. And his party no less give special support in their exclusion of White in favour of Black in candidate selection.

    Colour it seems is important, very important, and a wrong word about it can get one into deep doo dah with the Big People in control. Even displaying Saltire blue which I believe is technically Pentone blue can get you into doo dah with the security when out and about showing support at a march.

    Seems that for the most part the sword of police intervention hangs over us all if we have the wrong colour.

    Fabulous innit or am I bigot.

  110. WingsOverFrance

    @Red. A sadly predictable response. We’re gardeners, minimum wage, one-bed apartment mortgaged. Things aren’t always as they first appear.

  111. WingsOverFrance

    The shade of blue you’re referring to is actually number 300 on the Pantone scale. Type Pantone 300 into Google and you’ll see what I mean.

  112. willie

    Thanks Wings Over France. I shall assiduously note that Pantone 300 is the colour to avoid displaying in public lest I get lifted by the apartheid Police Scotland.

    What WOF do you know about Black 47.

  113. Northcode

    They are truly horrific. The Wings cult is surely the most extraordinary and embarrassing thing the Yes movement has to endure. The absolute worst of us

    Extraordinary? Yes, agreed.

    Horrific? Embarrassing? The worst of us? Cult? What nonsense the wickit Wishart does oftentimes speak

    But enough of thon irrelevance; brush aside all thoughts of the Wishart from thy mind; for now it is the hour for the plucking of the gosling ceremony, but first the blessing:

    Fear ye not, my beloved companions, seeing that we draw near unto the desired end.

    Therefore, all things being rightly done and the conjurations and exorcisms diligently performed, let nothing either the Reverend, Magus of Reason, or his disciples fear.

    That which thou desirest is accomplished, be thy will performed and all thy demands fulfilled.

    Blessed are the followers of the Reverend for they alone have seen the light of his reason.

    Now we shall cleanse our keyboards so that we may speak truth and be free of sin.

    Okay, has everyone got their goslings?

    Then let us begin…

    Thou shalt take thy gosling, from which thou shalt pluck the third feather of the right wing, and in plucking it thou shalt say:

    Adrai, Hahlii, Tamaii, Tilonas, Athamas, Zianor, Adonai, banish from this keyboard all deceit and error, which is sin, so that it may be of virtue and
    efficacy to write all that I desire.


    Right, now that’s done we should all expect to see good, honest, well-written and, above all, sinless btl comments from now on.

    Tomorrow, to assist us in our quest for independence, we will be invoking the demon Bune (don’t worry, he’s one of the friendlier demons); the twenty-sixth spirit of the Lemegeton Clavicula Salomonis.

    He is a strong, great and mighty Duke. He appeareth in the form of a dragon with three heads, one like a dog, one like a gryphon, and one like a man. He speaketh with a high and comely voice.

    He maketh persons wise and eloquent. He giveth true answers unto demands and he governeth 30 Legions of spirits.

    Don’t forget to bring a flask of tea and some sandwiches to your keyboard – it could be a long day. Oh, and some chalk; you know, for the drawing of the pentacles. If you don’t have a wooden floor at home you can get wash-off chalk for your carpet from Hobbycraft(£4.99 for a pack of 6).

    I’ll provide the online candles – scented with the sweet fragrance of freedom and independence.

  114. Paul

    Hi all. Very well, it is still has to be adopted by the NEC. I really hope that could work meanwhile if the residential franchise is not scrapped and the core of voters explicitly restricted ( born here, or living here for X amount of time, paying taxes etc…lots of exampke all over the world where vote on National Matters are only allowed to Nationals) as well as posting votes (In any other decent countries nobody else but you has to touch your vote except medical condition, living abroad you can use proxy and it has to be documented officially. All this for the only purpose of avoiding frauds)I do think it will be another desilusion…

  115. Derek

    “Morgatron says:
    2 September, 2023 at 7:48 am

    I still think Hell Raiser was far away Sweet better song compared to Blockbuster with Fox on the Run a close third for the intro alone.”

    I’d like to add Love Is Like Oxygen to your competition.

  116. A Scot Abroad

    Well over 100 comments, but not a single one of them looking to address the elephant in the room….

    Without any solid policies and proposals for what an iScotland would do for currency, taxation, pensions, debt obligations, trade agreements, a central bank, international allegiances and alliances, the fact that a lot of people and the entirety of the financial sector would leave, 55,000 U.K. level public sector jobs would be taken south, the normal and sensible people of Scotland just aren’t going to vote to leave, whether it be in an IndyRef, or 50%+1 of votes in a Holyrood election. The even some crazies up above in the comments wanting Indy to occur the day after the election, without any negotiations whatsoever.

    It’s all just puff by Indy supporters. It ain’t going to happen. And, at the moment, that’s a good thing for the people of Scotland.

  117. Derek

    “The even some crazies…”

    Please translate, troll.

  118. Brian Doonthetoon

    RE: Sweet singles.

    John Peel reckoned that this was the best rock single (track) of 1974.
    It was the B side of this, which was, unfortunately, released at the time of a BBC technicians’ strike, which meant that Top of the Pops was off-air for 6 weeks, otherwise, I’ve no doubt it would have been a #1.

  119. Paul Davis

    I just love the naivety of those who believe the EU will a. Want Scotland as a member and b. that Scotland will be able to negotiate acceptable terms. That is just not how the EU works. It sets out the conditions and if you have any leverage then you use it to get them to shift otherwise you take it or leave it.

    Plus does anyone in their right mind think the EU wants another land border with the UK? The UK would be under no obligation to co-operate in any shape or form and would be able to start demanding changes to its relationship with the EU in return for any concessions wrt the Scottish border. Why would the EU want that? What’s in it for them? Nothing as far as I can see. That’s before we even get to things like currency requirements.

    Being able to join the EU is about as far from a given as it is possible to get.

  120. GM

    Paul Davis, While leaving the EU was and is an English issue not many of us give 2 fucks about the EU. If you don’t believe me about check the turnouts in EU elections in Scotland which turned out at about 30%. The idea of leaving the EU wasn’t extant in Scotland because we didn’t see it as a big deal so no need to leave. it only became an issue in Scotland because it was argued that we would be outside the EU on Independence day. It was one tactic among many intended to move a percentage of people in Scotland who might vote YES onto the NO side on this issue.

    It should have been used as a lever to get us out of the UK and it is still useful political ammunition. It is still in the bank.

    It is your ignorance that annoyed me enough to post this.

  121. Stoker

    @ ‘GM’ above. I post this in support of your case against the ignorant. This is from someone who actually knows a damn sight more about the EU than Paul Davis (above) will ever know.

    Paul Davis is from that same class of BritNat as another commenter on here by the username ‘A Scot Abroad’. Their style is to confidently spout their opinions as gospel facts knowing most folk don’t have the time or desire to research the validity of what they’re preaching. A bit like those wealthy American preachers we see on religious channels.

    I know who i believe, and it’s not the Paul Davis’ of this world. Keep up the good work, GM. 😉

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