Vote No for [TBC]
The final aspect of the independence debate touched on by Alistair Darling’s interview on Newsnight Scotland last night brought some more much-needed clarity to the situation. In this segment of the programme the issue being pursued by Gordon Brewer was what the Unionist parties were going to offer the Scottish electorate in the way of greater devolution in the event of a No vote.
Uncharacteristically, Darling was a little evasive when Brewer first raised the issue, but thankfully some hard facts were soon forthcoming.
At 9m 32s, after something of an extended rant from Darling about the lack of detail being offered about the results of a Yes vote, Brewer asked “Do you think there’s any need for more devolution in Scotland?”, to which Darling replied “I think that, that, that, that, that’s, that’s a matter of debate.”
(We think there may have been some sort of technical hiccup with the iPlayer there.)
There then followed a lengthy passage of wholly content-free waffling that we’re buggered if we’re going to sit here transcribing, as Brewer fruitlessly tried to press the “Better Together” chief on what further powers he might like to see devolved to Scotland within the UK. Eventually, at 11m 46s, Darling said this:
“All parties will have to set out in their manifestos what further constitutional change they want. Because I don’t think you can actually ask people to vote for it if you haven’t had something in your manifesto. And at some point […] you will have to ask people living in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.”
The manifestos for the last UK general election – held in May 2010 – were published on April 12th 2010 (Labour), April 13th 2010 (Conservative) and April 14th 2010 (Liberal Democrat). If the election in 2015 follows a similar pattern then clearly the manifestos detailing the three parties’ visions of further devolution – if they have any – won’t have been published until around seven months AFTER the referendum.
A more striking definition of a “pig in a poke” we can’t imagine. But the implications are clear. Darling conspicuously failed to even say, when asked directly by Brewer, that he believed there was a need for ANY further devolution at all. He then admitted that any plans, were they to exist, wouldn’t exist until the Scottish people had already voted – at which point they’d of course have surrendered all leverage over whichever Westminster government resulted from the 2015 vote.
We can’t help but have a certain degree of admiration for the sheer chutzpah displayed by Darling last night. Openly and repeatedly contradicting himself on the “irrevocability” of independence, asserting that the whole of Europe was basically a new German Reich and then angrily attacking the Scottish Government for not providing details about a Yes vote until a year before the referendum, while just minutes later admitting that the No camp he leads wouldn’t be providing details of their proposals to the Scottish people until months AFTER it.
Whatever else happens, we won’t be able to say we weren’t warned.
VOTE NO and we’ll give you lots of nice devolved goodies. Aaaaarrrggghhh!!! It’s 1979 revisited.
I remember Darling telling us several months ago that anything more than minor powers being devolved would require asking the rest of the UK for permission first, yet he refuses to spell out what exactly “minor” means. Essentially, anyone thinking Scotland will get much more than the pathetic Scotland Act that will be enacted in 2015 is fooling themselves, and we certainly won’t get any new powers any time soon since we’ll get the excuses about seeing how the existing powers go first, and so on.
It’s far more straight-forward to just transfer all the powers to Holyrood so we can decide what to do with them ourselves. Then any shared sovereignty that is genuinely in Scotland’s interests can be negotiated between two equal partners.
Rocket science it is not.
“And at some point […] you will have to ask people living in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.”
Do you think we should send him a thank you card from the YES campaign for finally getting to the main point of the whole referendum? He’s said more in that one line than at any other time in the last 6 months.
Here’s the point of our referendum- We do not want to and should not have to ask anyones permission on how to run our own bloody country. We shouldn’t have to go cap in hand to Westminster for permission to raise and spend our own tax money, to have access to our own resources, to decide what conflicts we should or should not be involved in, or who we should and shouldn’t be friends with in the world.
You don’t suppose he missed the memo on the point of the whole better together exercise do you? Y’know the one where you’re not meant to give the game away.
This article and the comments above completely sum up the whole issue for me. Well said.
Enough, already! There are only two interesting things about Alistair Darling and both of them are eyebrows.
OT: This week Darling’s No Campaign was touring the Highlands. Just to let people from the Highland region know: there is a Yes Highland Meeting on Saturday
Thanks Mutterings. I wasn’t aware of that despite having signed up for the YES page! I missed the launch event earlier in the year so I’m glad I won’t be missing this one.
Another brilliant post. Thanks Rev. (can we call you that?)
The reason Darling and the unionist parties have no argument is because we have the perfect storm in politics in Britain just now.
Labour are toast in Britain for a generation plus scotland have rejected them twice at Holyrood.
Tory right wing ideology in westminster with their attack on the welfare state and pretty well in for another 5 term come 2015 at westminster.
Labour in Scotland under Lamont et al turning right with their attack on universality!
Labour jumping into bed with the tories and lib dums against the people of Scotland
Darling as head of the No campaign who is no more trusted in Scotland than Bli-ar
Darling flipping his house 4 times in 2 years plus sleeping at the wheel of the deregulation and Implosion of the Banks.
One observation – perhaps slightly O/T is that at least Brewer (of all people!) had a proper interview with Darling – interrupted him, pressed him when he didn’t answer – you know, all the usual stuff. Over on Scotland Tonight moments earlier, however, John MacKay had just sat on his arse and listened adoringly while Darling, no doubt not believing his luck, riffed this way and that on more or less his whole repertoire of doom, gloom and uncertainty.
One of the most egregious moments came when Darling pompously averred it was everyone’s duty to stick to the issues – not to ‘play the man instead of the ball – although we all know Salmond’s track record there’.
I mean WTF??!! Lamont and her knuckle draggers have been throwing one accusation after another at the FM for more than a year now – it is, indeed, their overt, stated intention to attack Salmond the man at every turn – and Darling gets away with presenting the complete opposite as the truth while a presumably up-to-speed political journalist just sits there and nods his approval?!
Is there absolutely NO MSM outlet in this country that is prepared to be fair and even-handed?
To be fair to Brewer, remember the evening he took Gray apart.
MPs call for consensus on referendum rules. Funny how they’ve changed their minds from the days when the SNP were in minority government and were refused any support by the Unionist parties to hold a referendum as independence wasn’t their policy.
Oh come on Cuphook. There’s plenty of interesting things about Darling!
There’s his atittude to the public purse, for example:
link to telegraph.co.uk
Then there’s his financial competence:
link to moneyweek.com
link to guardian.co.uk
and, of course, why you never see him in a pub:
link to guardian.co.uk
There’s lots of interesting things about Alistair Darling. They all tend to suggest he’s a talentless hack with little interest beyond feathering his own nest, which is why they’ve been buried by the Scottish MSM since 2011.
*thinks back to happier times*
link to wingsland.podgamer.com
link to craftcouncil.org
John MacKay threw a complete strop on twitter last night after a barrage of ‘less bias please’ demands when they openly asked what could improve the show for 2013.
The toys went right oot the pram, and then what did we see? a supine, nodding non-interview of the man leading the ‘no’ campaign.
Bias is so institutionalised they do not consider even the possibility it may exist.
Cuphook; from the report you posted, Ian Davidson MP says “The worst option is to have the pursuit of factional advantage – ‘the aggregation of marginal gains’ – by the majority who have control and who dread defeat.”
Is this the same Ian Davidson MP who told Isabel Fraser of course the Unionists want to rig the referendum to give themselves a factional advantage? So it’s alright when his side does it, but “the worst option” if the Scottish Government dared to do such a thing! The word “hypocrite” keeps popping into my mind.
Of course there is no pursuit of factional advantage by the continual repetition of “The Referendum on Separation for Scotland” in all his committee’s report titles…
Seriously, does anyone know if Blair Jenkins, as head of the Yes campaign, is going to get any ‘air time’ soon?
Since the viewing public got a double-dose of the No campaign’s Darling’s negativity last night, surely the Yes campaign’s positivity should get equal time, and soon, to further its case, reciprocity and all that?
I really don’t think that what is happening in the media is important right now. Us anoraks may hang on every word, but the general public doesn’t. The subject of the referendum simply doesn’t crop up in my workplace, apart from my gentle hints and comments. The real battle will commence in the final 6 months.
“Over on Scotland Tonight moments earlier, however, John MacKay had just sat on his arse and listened adoringly while Darling, no doubt not believing his luck, riffed this way and that”
Yeah, no question Newsnicht kicked ST’s erse last night good and proper. It’s fighting back, and ST is resting on its laurels a bit. Not surprised they got huffy about bias allegations, they got caught bang to rights with that “2:1 polling schtick”. It’s not necessarily bias rather than incompetence, but they really don’t like getting pulled up by the punters. (Madam.)
OT
Okay, I`m nitpicking, but…
BBC Reporting Scotland`s very English Englishman Christopher Blanchett, wore a very red, white and blue tie presenting the weather forecast this evening. I`m just waiting for the presenters and crew to wrap themselves in union flags, and stand to salute the British flag whenever it appears on news items (which, some some reason, happens a lot more often these days).
Regards the STV Alastair Darling interview – John MacKay was out of his depth; he`s just not up to any kind of in-depth political analysis. Bernard Ponsonby should handle the political stuff on STV. John MacKay is candyfloss in a hurricane when it comes to politics.
Worry not about missing hollow promises following a ‘no’ vote, concentrate on what could be lost.
All the advantages we have through being devolved could disappear overnight at the whim of a non-representative tory government seeking to quash any further thought of a second referendum following an SNP victory in 2016.
What ‘matters’ have been devolved can become reserved once more.
Think on the fourth verse of their national anthem…… we cannot AFFORD to lose
I do hope that the NAW campaign is going to concern itself with the uncertainty caused by George Osborne’s utterances over the EEC.
If it was AS making these noises then they would be going mental.
At 7:08, Darling says, “I’m going to argue that Scotland, it’s long-term future is dependent upon us being part of the United Kingdom”. Too wee, too poor, too stupid after all?
Well honestly did anyone expect anything different from the A . Darling interviews by the media, but the good thing is the man can’t keep a story straight to save his life. He contradicts himself time after time and that is going to come back and kick him and the bitter together campaign right up the arse in the future.
As for the media we will remember them come independence, “what go’s around, etc”
Alba Gu snooker loopy!, vote yes.
The Man from Del Monte!
He say….
O/T Just watching Admiral Fallow on BBC Alba. So brilliant to hear them singing with their own Scottish accent instead of some sort of faux American. It just sounds so good!
I think the only question you have to ask yourself is,
Would you buy a car from this man?
Indy-scot.
Are you suggesting this man has passed a driving test?
Or are you referring to his Arfur Daley style persons?
Persona
More to the point, would you buy a second-hand pie from him?
(A little Simon-Pia-on-Scotland-Tonight-or-Newsnicht-I-forget-which reference for you all there…)
Rev, folks, you need to check out this wee ditty over on NNS.
link to newsnetscotland.com
Apparently the chairheidbummer (ahem chairman) and his committee have come to a magnanimous decision on SCOTLAND’S referendum.
Lest we forget.From the unionist Daily Telegraph,31st May 2009:
“Mr Darling bought the flat – near the Oval cricket ground in south London – for £226,000 in 2005 and went on to claim £2,260 in stamp duty and £6,000 on furnishings and carpets. He is now thought to make at least £5,000 per year from the rent after mortgage costs are deducted. Mr Darling’s expenses file also shows that he claimed for tax advice relating to the rental of the flat.
It has already been disclosed that Mr Darling is a “serial flipper” who has designated four properties as his second home in four years. He has also employed an accountant at taxpayers’ expense to complete his self-assessment forms.”
Just one example of the No camp’s hypocrisy.
You may read jam on the label but all you will be buying is pure mince.
This is the theme tune he came out to for his #darlingontour darts exhibition
Slightly off topic, but I’ve really got to say this. Somebody in the No campaign should tell Alistair to either quit dying his eyebrows black, or dye the rest of his hair to match. Who is he trying to fool with that (besides himself)?
This non disclosure about further powers is going to be a stick to beat the No campaign with as the debate comes to a head leading up to Autumn 2014. We either vote for all powers and responsibilities or… what? Promises? On Westminster’s past record? Aye, that’ll be right.
I think it is going to be very difficult for the No campaign to hold this line without it damaging their cause.