But Don’t Give Yourself Away
Seamus Logan, an SNP MP of whom it has often been said “Seamus who?”, has an article in The National today categorically ruling out Scotland achieving independence via a democratic vote in an event fully recognised by the UK government.
That in itself shouldn’t come as much of a surprise to Wings readers, as this site has been documenting the SNP’s increasingly open abandonment of even the pretence at achieving independence for more than five years now.
Logan’s stance that if begging Westminster for another Section 30 doesn’t work (which it doesn’t, hasn’t and never will) then it’s basically impossible and we should just give up has – to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention – been official SNP policy since at least the resignation of Nicola Sturgeon and in reality long before then, and we don’t think it’s a coincidence that the party has lost more than half of its members and over 40% of its voters over that period.
But wait: Logan says he DOES have a Plan B, and it comes from his own country.
Consider us all ears, Seamus.
Oh. Well, that’s a bit of an anti-climax. Logan’s 23 April column suggests that because there’s a vague commitment in the Good Friday Agreement that’s been sort-of backed up, ish, by a junior minister (Anderson is Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Northern Ireland Office, having stepped into the job less than a year ago after running a community centre in Battersea in London, and has “regularly visited” Northern Ireland), the same will apply to Scotland, maybe.
(Readers may wish to note that despite years of predictions, Brexit has as yet failed to produce a majority for reunification in NI. Sound familiar, gang?)
Anderson’s comment was in fact so underwhelming it wasn’t even a full sentence.
But having whipped up those seven lukewarm words into an entire article, Logan is then quick to pour cold water on it anyway.
And soon it dissolves entirely, until we’re back to John Swinney’s “just keep building support somehow, and as soon as it looks certain that they’ll lose the vote, the UK will give us another referendum”.
That’s a safe enough bet, of course, because the SNP haven’t managed to shift indy support in a decade, but even then it still just amounts to “begging for another Section 30 on the grounds of moral justification”, the exact strategy the SNP have been punting since 2015 with zero success.
And when their own supporters are walking away in droves rather than listen to any more carrot-banging, it seems optimistic in the extreme to imagine that Westminster will be taking any notice.
We’ll keep saying it until it sinks in with the half of their supporters who HAVEN’T left yet, and we’ll say it in language a man from Northern Ireland should understand: the SNP have surrendered. We will only find independence in their ashes.
Ever get the feeling you’re being gaslit?
Independence for Scotland!
SNP Out!
Of course, there is also the fact that Westminster would like nothing more than to actually get rid of Northern Ireland. Same does not apply to Scotland.
NI would be looking for reunification, not independence. Eire would have to be willing. Would they? Perhaps, but it’s complicated.
link to irishnews.com
After saying
“challenging the Westminster parties to concede the principle of consent in letting Scotland determine its own democratic future points the way. But for that to have any meaning, we also need to build support for independence so that we have sufficient numbers of Scottish voters consistently backing it.”
Seamus Logan, without an iota of irony or a soupsong of self-awareness, states with respect to the British government and the Northern Ireland constitutional situation
“Naturally, all attempts to get an answer to that from ministers up until now have led to much the same kind of evasive, diversionary waffle as you get when asking the same sort of question about Scotland.”
What a weapon.
A “soupsong ” ???
Minny, minny, minny, minestrone….
We are the alphabetties…happy girls and boys…
Cock-a-leekie (favourite of many MSPs)
French onion (for you know who…..)
any more ?
And people talked about MI5 conspiracy. Who needs to conspire when you’ve got Scotlands very own guide to Failure. An A to Z of idiots,retards, deviants, gravy junkies,squirrels, Uni-rejects, nappy fetish boys and a She Turnip to pull all the strings.
Logan is more Wishart than Wishart.
Why not organise to have a true independence referendum in, say, 18 months, and raise the money to pay for it by public subscription?
This fits well with what postcolonial theory tells us about the decolonization process:
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
794th time. Inching forward to the big 1000. Gaun yersel Alfie boy.
Anti-colonial literature is essential in any colony if the people are to understand their ‘condition’.
GTF Seamus GTF
Scotland 1 & 2 for me in 2026 for any party that backs national elections as de facto Indy referendums.
not for publication
I think I was just modded, for my email about Hatey.
Thankyou! Again.
He can look after himself, and I regretted it the moment I clicked send.
Shame. We’ll never know just how good it was.
Anyhoo, Xaracen already has today’s Stellar Post Award, although Confused has made a good run from behind.
In case you’re wondering what Xaracen said, he thanked Aidan for confirming Scotland is a colony and thus helping our efforts at the UN.
25th June 8:28 AM
It’s a surprise, I didn’t think that i deserved that praise. Perhaps naively I didn’t think that the staff at the UN monitored the WoS comments section to help them guide their decolonisation programme. Obviously knowing that I have this responsibility, I’ll have to post ever more frequently. Everyone’s on board with that right?
“Everyone’s on board with that right?”
Sure. There must be a lot of UN staff twiddling their thumbs now that nuclear thingie has been sorted. I bet they will all be poring over Wings BTL.
Bearing that in mind, keep a lid on the cant calling, and leave out the calls for gassing of undesirables. And no obvious porkies: Scots are enslaved, the English did all the imperial dirty work, that kind of thing. Some of them at the UN have been educated. Hell, some of them might come from places colonised by Scots!
Clean things up at least until the next international crisis looms. Then we can revert to business as usual.
So, one of our “NEW SCOTS” that we should be ever so grateful to for coming to oor wee country and enriching our existence is informing us that the great brutish establishment would just laugh and snigger if we used a plebiscite election as a referendum for our independence , funnily enough this has a familiar ring to it but I just can’t put my finger on the non indigenous arsewipes who believe this to be the case
It also begs the question on what these NEW SCOTS believe that democracy means , from their comments it appears that democracy is NOT available to SCOTS it is only available to our superior masters in the WM engerlish parliament
Something tells me either mr logan is in the wrong party or he is just reinforcing what we all know, that the Scum Nonce Party is just another yoonionist party
Maybe mr logan should present his views on a border poll and how WM will just laugh and snigger when Sinn Fein tells them they are holding a border poll, maybe the IRA will laugh and snigger too
When will indigenous Scots look at the damage, destruction and marginalisation caused to other indigenous people like the Aboriginals , Maoris ,Alaskan Inuits and other native peoples and realise they are being replaced, what is worse is that it is being facilitated and encouraged by our supposed ain folk
I have no doubt in my mind that Swinney is happy for the Holyrood MSP’s to be sacrificed the same way as he did with Westminster MP’s after all this is what he wants. His goal is simple, keep Scotland in the Union until 2031 and believe it or not he’s already won. Because if the SNP win the Election, Scotland is tied to the Union until 2031 or if SNP win the election but don’t get a majority his preference isn’t to form a government with the greens because how can he justify waiting another 5yrs for Independence when he doesn’t want Independence. So he’ll form a government with Labour and it’ll be based on that the SNP doesn’t seek another Independence referendum and to wait until after 2031.
Swinney is playing us for a fools, he’s allowing Scotland to be asset striped so that even if we did decide to wait until 2050 there wouldn’t be any thing owed by Scotland it’ll all be owned by the Unionist or companies with a interest in keeping Britian together, it’ll be 2014 all over again, your too wee too stupid and too poor.
The SNP and more importantly John Swinney is working and in glove with the UKG not only to STOP Independence but to defiantly destroy it for good.
We have a option destroy the SNP or allow the SNP destroy Scotland and John Swinney is on course to win and win big and he knows it.
I’m going to be honest I came back home to Scotland in 2017 I honestly thought I’d see an Independent Scotland and if you asked me now I’d say to anyone who’d listen the SNP is hell bent on destroying it and there going to win unless we stop them.
I agree totally. Even though the tools are there to dismantle this disgusting, corrupt organisation, the streets and voices are barron and silent.
What will it take to relight the fire?
Northern Ireland has no resources do England wants rid of it and it’s people too costly to keep.
Contrast that to Scotland more resources than England, so will be kept at any cost.
Isn’t NI hoaching with yoons?
In the event that demographic change forces unification of the island of Eire, won’t many of these yoons (the most die-hard ones) decamp back to where their ancestors came from?
Scotland.
That should be fun!
Sure about that?
I heard it was the English that conquered NI.
You had better have a word with whoever it was that told you that, Anthem. You can put them right.
There’s a wealth of information online about the people who left Scotland and England to settle in Ireland, starting in the 17th century. In the core areas of Scottish settlement, Scots outnumbered English by five to one.
Then there is the Ulster Scots language, sufficiently important to have protections for it built into the Good Friday agreement, along with the cross-border agency, the Ulster-Scots Agency, which is charged with the language and its culture’s protection and promotion.
I don’t know if you subscribe to the fable widely repeated on here that the centuries of British imperialism were all the work of the English whilst we Scots looked on, futilely wringing our hands in horror.
Probably not. You probably fully recognise that when it came to colonising, ethnic cleansing, genociding, pillaging and theft, we Scots were always in the vanguard.
“we Scots were always in the vanguard”
Yes indeed. Imperial powers have always ‘used’ colonized peoples as ‘the foremost part of an advancing army’.
Hence the perspective of our Imperial masters in regard to Scottish troops deployed in Westminster’s 150+ colonial conflicts since the ‘Union’ hoax: ‘no great loss if they fall etc’.
Today’s proxy wars seem little different.
“Yes indeed. Imperial powers have always ‘used’ colonized peoples as ‘the foremost part of an advancing army’.”
Sure, Alf, on that we can agree.
And it’s a refreshing change to see that instead of a flat denial that we were ever involved, there is some element of “we were, but we were only following orders”. Not that that distinction would have been of any comfort to the victims.
Your statement might work for military forces, but does not for the masses of sizzlers, farmers, prospectors, etc. that followed.
Interestingly, in today’s colonial war, the Orcs are prioritising use of their own colonized peoples in the meat grinder, as can be widely read about online. Their casualties have now topped the million mark, but as the majority are subjects from the Orc colonies, the denizens of Orc Central remain largely untouched.
Odd that the Orcs get so much support on here for their imperialist, colonialist efforts though, isn’t it?
One final thought, Alf. Assuming your claim that WM has involved us in 150+ conflicts is true, were there never any of them in which Scotland may have taken some pride in taking part?
“Assuming your claim that WM has involved us in 150+ conflicts is true, were there never any of them in which Scotland may have taken some pride in taking part?”
The only conflict where WM perhaps sought to end colonialism rather than promote it was arguably WWII. However, even that conflict heralded the entry of the US corporate-military colonizer into many areas of W.Europe incl UK.
Key point here for all Scots to understand is that neutral Ireland has managed to avoid over 80 WM conflicts because it is independent; meanwhile Scots are continually being dragged into dangerous colonial conflicts by our oppressor, who is now telling us once again to ‘prepare for war’.
That’s odd, Alf. You must be unaware that Ireland allocated a record amount for defence in 2025 and has promised to double its defence spending by 2028.
Maybe they’re worried England is going to invade.
You also seem to be unaware that Ireland is not independent – it’s in the EU.
There’s only one colonialist oppressor in Europe at the moment. The Orcs have already swallowed up 20% of one sovereign, free nation, have made it crystal clear they want the remaining 80%, and will then move onto recovering the rest of their former colonies at their leisure.
With all of the future Orc targets in the EU, Ireland is in the fight. Just as Scotland will be, if we join the EU.
Denying this reality won’t make it go away. Saying we in the west “made the Orcs do it” won’t cut it either.
You can pointlessly divert all you want but you cannot alter the fact Scots have been dragged into some 80 WM conflicts “that neutral Ireland has managed to avoid … because it is independent”
Having control over matters of war and peace is one of the most important benefits of national independence / decolonization.
Having control over matters of war and peace is one of the most important benefits of national independence / decolonization.
Isn’t providing for the security and defence of your country the primary duty of any independent state> Ireland’s pretendy neutrality has always rested on a fiction: freeloading on the security provided by the spending of others, whilst relying on the widely reviled brits to provide protection of their airspace and EEZ so you can spend the money on other things might seem to some folk more than a tad hypocritical.
“Ireland’s pretendy neutrality”
Mair diversion!
It is hardly ‘pretendy’ if it is an indisputable fact that an independent Ireland’s choice of neutrality means its people have avoided 80+ WM conflicts that Scotland has been dragged into.
And with more UK sponsored global conflicts on the horizon for subordinate Scots still subject to Imperial Brutish exceptional madness and its dubious ‘values’.
The SNP are no longer a party of Independence. They lost that hunger since 2014. They have become a party comfortable with winning seats, salaries and pensions. In my view they have actually abused Indy supporters by getting their votes under false pretences. The old saying power corrupts certainly seems to apply to this mob.
I’m thinking of retiring to France soon and when I do I’m going to be welcomed by universal acclaim as a new member of the National Assembly. After I’ve done that for a week, it’ll be time for a tilt at the Presidency in 2027.
If Macron isn’t all right with that, he can stick it…
Look out for my opinion piece in Le Monde next month where I show everyone in France what to do and how to do it and then I’ll tell them what their future be like.
Who knew la politique was so easy…
I wrote a similar comment on the fact that everyone from anywhere is now telling Scots what they can and cannot do but the rev seems to dislike certain ones pointing this out
Seamus fuck off back to Ireland
Rev I seem to be falling foul of your moderation policies as I have had numerous comments put in to moderation and disappear altogether despite your assertion that you don’t like censuring comments, perhaps as others have also asked can you list the words or sayings that you despise so much that people can avoid using them
I suspect that it is not the words that you use but simply the overall ‘content’ of your posts which lead them being put into ‘moderation’.
Mince is mince however it is dressed up.
But … but …
Surely as a result of Brexshit we’re all trapped on this tiny island, unable to travel anywhere in the EU because of the bureaucratic hurdles, life sapping delays and pocket-emptying costs that now face us?
Surely you can’t be suggesting that these tales of the near impossibility of European travel are nothing burgers dreamed up by those sad losers still pining to be ruled by Brussels?
Oh look, two unionist pricks in a row.
House!
Oh look, James’s maw has gone oot again.
She’ll be back soon, so dinnat play with matches or yersel.
Be sure to make your
FROGS FROGS FROGS … everywhere
speech at the elysee
the algerians will like it anyway
We just have to hope that Scotland gets recognised as a colony by the UN sooner than the 2 to 3 years that it might take [per Craig Murray on today’s Barrhead Boy]. At least then Scotland will have some protection from the UK. The SNP under current management certainly won’t protect or aid our cause.
If you didn’t already know that the UK is a hollow, corrupt, incompetent sham, Craig Murray’s [coincidentally] blog today reveals that RAF Brize Norton’s refuelling aircraft are actually PRIVATELY OWNED!!! They are available to other nations for use in military matters – which is presumably why they are being used to refuel Israeli planes.
AND the ground crew are ALSO supplied by the private company. For God’s sake, how appalling is that? The entire House of Commons should be rioting at this state of affairs – our defence force actually just a bunch of mercenaries.
I am sickened – my parents served in WW2 and lost family and friends in a cause that was just. To see the UK government conceal the depths to which they have sunk us, is devastating.
THE ENGLISH have become rather pessimistic about their future, Farage & co «après nous le déluge» kinda stuff.
Scotland just dreams on, and on in its Micawberish waiting for something or someone to turn up…
Sinking ships all around and no sight of a life raft.
Scotland in the vanguard of what?
Enough of that, lets talk AMOC!
England is solely responsible for the colonisation of those peoples and their nations it brought under the oppressive control of its greedy and vicious empire.
England is solely responsible for the many conflicts it dragged the Scots into in order to support its violent attack on a quarter of the planet – recruiting Scotland’s desperate young men (because it was either that or starve) into its armed forces to be wantonly and carelessly sacrificed for nothing more than England’s greed.
Scotland was England’s first imperially colonised victim.
England destroyed the means by which the Scots could survive in their own land and forced a great diaspora upon them.
The Scots didn’t leave their own country to knowingly exploit other peoples. They left because they were going to die if they stayed.
Those who did manage to eke out a living under colonial rule suffered greatly and yet, somehow, managed to survive despite the oppressive environment in which they were forced to exist.
A tiny percentage of Scots – the Swinneys and Sturgeons of the day – were very happy to join England in its theft of the wealth of other nations and the subjugation of their peoples; and they were happy to toady up to the English, but they were the minority just as they are today.
The majority of Scots would rather have made friends with other peoples and indeed did so in many places around the world which is why the Scots are still held in high regard by many other peoples and the English despised by those same peoples
Yes, yes, NC, but it all sounds so pathetic and whiny when you write it in the language of the colonialist oppressor.
Get a grip, man. Write it in Scots.
“The Scots didn’t leave their own country to knowingly exploit other peoples”
Oh dear ! Where do you get your history from ?
Ladybird books ?
Even Rabbie Burns was off to make his fortune on a slave plantation in Jamaica !
@Insider
Northcode and his ilk are proof positive that the much vaunted Scottish conceit about our educational system being (at least in aulden times) far superior to those in other countries was really something observed more in the breach than the observance.
Sadly like any mass movement the Scottish independence movement is shot through with a vein of particularist bigotry, often directed in particular at the Auld Enemy, and will brook no dissenting voices that there might (whisper it) have been lots of Scots throughout history who prioritise their religion ahead of their nation and oftentimes later their economic position ahead of the distinctive nature of Scottish society, law, religion and education.
It’s all very well getting carried away with the romantic idea that everyone back in the day was a Jacobite or a Covenanter, but it ain’t necessarily so.
Of course if you scratch the surface of some of those advancing such Scottish particularism it oftentimes reveals a far less pleasant sub Siol nan Gaidheal ethno nationalism and far right political ideology. Of course it might just be because they’re dumb as a box of rocks as our American cousins say.
It’s difficult to place some of the moon howlers who regularly pollute BTL discourse on that continuum, but there are definitely folk in both categories. Thankfully some of the worst offenders seem to have disappeared in recent months, whether because they’ve given up of been banned by Rev Stu I couldn’t say.
Either way the place is far better for it.
Bollocks.
He was offered a job as a book keeper but never went.
“James”
I see !
Just a “bookkeeper” on a slave plantation!
And you think that’s o.k. ??
Good grief ! What a tool you are !
WOOF! WOOF!
Ma Scottish pish whit a vigorously spray aboot aw ower this place wreakin havoc like a big auld dug o’ wirds that’s slipped its leash is mair pouerfu than yon feebly dribbled aboot weak Inglis pish.
Aye, an a’m no a moon howlin dug o’ wirds aither… a maist præfer barkin oot ruid Scottis wyt endlang the lochs an the glens an the mountains than listenin tae that bauch solomonical ‘sapience’ thon Inglis caw wyt.
Hi Northcode,
There is certainly a case when the English in Scotland led to Scottish colonialism.
Following Culloden three of the Wedderburn family were involved. The feyther was killed in battle and the young sons arrested and deported the Caribbean as bondagers.
After 7 years they were out of bondage and began running their own slave plantations becoming enormously rich.
A descendant was in the House of Lords after a career as a labour lawyer.
There is a book by the Scottish historian, James Hunter, which I would recommend. Glencoe and the Indians
Northcode
The Scottish historian Iain Mackinnon has written an article about internal colonialism in Scotland. Look for “Colonialism and the Highland Clearances”.
Thanks for these pointers, Sam. I’ll check them out.
Our lady Northcode sounds like a nasty piece of work. She must be Iranian.
Stop it!
Now I’m imagining a stream of Scots coming from a letter box.
So Seamus is imparting his wisdom by telling us idiots that Westminster won’t just roll over and recognise a victory for independence using an election as a plebiscite.
Of course they won’t but you do it anyway. Of course it would be good if they did recognise a declaration of independence following a victory at just such a plebiscite but I don’t think there are too many of us that believe they actually would.
It would be nice to believe that Scotland’s part of independence would actually be bold enough to use the Scottish election as a plebiscite AND to take on Westminster following their failure to recognise it.
This is what Seamus is telling us what the SNP won’t do. I will therefore not be voting for that next year.
Why has the Scottish or indeed “UK” beef become so ridiculously expensive?
The price of a roasting joint of beef per kg has sky-rocketed in recent years. Around three years ago, you could find a joint at around £6.99/7.99 per kg. This weekend I checked in Sainsbury’s and the cheapest joint is over £16 per kg.
The price of beef appears to have gone up so fast that now the price of half a leg of lamb per kg (even cheaper if you go for the whole leg) is a few £ cheaper than beef!!
In what parallel universe has lamb ever been cheaper than beef?
Is deliberately making beef unaffordable the way genocide apologists Starmer and Reeves and the useless union stooge Swinney are fabricating a “gap in the market” for the cheaper hormone injected beef coming from USA?
What other reason could be there?
Had the useless Starmer and Swinney ever seen a backbone, even at a distance?
Are they ever going to be able to sit upright for a few seconds or is the only posture they recognise that of bending over for USA and its appendage in the ME?
Groceries going up in price?
Blame Da Dews.
Check out professional people’s champion and enthusiastic socialist redistributer, Mia, shopping in Sainsbury’s!
“Blame Da Dews”
Nope. In this particular instance, I blame the spineless envoys on the side of the UK (and Scotland) pretending to “negotiate” (actually completely surrendering us to) a “trade deal” with USA.
If they are just going to lay down like amoebas and let those representing USA to walk and pee all over us and simply pick and choose what sector of our farming/food chain needs to be destroyed so they can force their shite hormone injected food down our throats, what is the point in UK taxpayers paying for “negotiators”?
I continue to wonder what the real role of the arsonist U. male models was in all this and in this deeply unethical, unconditional, fervent, mystic even support the spineless Starmer seems to profess towards anything related to barbaric genocidal maniacs, serial international law breakers and holier than thou war criminals and bullies.
Mr Murray’s article today is an eye opener. What is Starmer really trying to protect by declaring that group of activists that threw paint on private planes a terrorist group?
His groveling towards the genocidal maniac and the imperial bully is becoming beyond pathetic.
Where is all this increase in funding for “defence” that the useless Starmer and Reeves are bleeding from us really going to?
And “Defence” from what, exactly? National ownership of public services? Is out money going to the pockets of some hedge fund somewhere at the other side of the Atlantic?
Maybe we should ask the male models.
And here is another question. Are those planes owned by the hedge fund still labelled with the brand “RAF”?
Because if they are and the owners of those planes are basically hiring them to any mercenary or war criminal who is willing to pay the right price, it means they could be hired to operate false flags all over the place disguised as RAF plane pretending to have clearance from Westminster.
And if they are being used so the genocidal maniac can continue with his dirty wars, why are they based here in our soil? When exactly did the UK become a dominion of the genocidal state? How much are those hedge funds paying UK taxpayers for using our land and air space and the RAF brand on the planes?
And what happens if the UK enters a war and is not towing the line imposed by the hedge funds or the genocidal state they are so fond of? Does that mean the UK can no longer use the planes labelled with the UK’s own brand? Or the idiotic Starmer sold the brand as well?
What does “RAF” now stands for, any way? Rent-a-fighter jet?
Are you on a piece rate for every time you drop the ‘g’ word, Mia?
You’re coming across as obsessed, tending towards unhinged.
Never in the entire history of the world has any genocider taken on feeding the genocided. Get a grip.
“…You’re coming across as obsessed, tending towards unhinged…”
ROTFLMFAO – look in a mirror, Prick.
James’s Mammie gone oot again.
Hope she left James plenty of Kleenex!
What nonsense to say we can only have 1 referendum election, more like a million consecutively or as many as the people want.
Politicians don’t get to tell the voters what they can or can’t vote for.