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Toga party

Posted on July 02, 2016 by


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  1. Lenny Hartley says:

    Glamaig, missed it myself, the dug was hassling me for a walk. No their not in the EU so didn’t get a vote.
    Manx Radio is my default listen now I don’t watch or listen to any UK output.
    They get confused between the UK and England a lot but at least they read out my complaints!
    The Manx economies credit rating was reduced last week on the back of Brexit so it’s affecting them also . The Sunday morning program between 10am and 12 is all about Celtic issues and Manx Culture interspersed with music. Most interesting program well worth listening to, think you can get it on catchup.

  2. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Windows 10

    I use/have used iMacs and Macs in general since about the last 20 years without too many probs. Even Apple is not infallible.

    I also have a 7 year old Acer 17″ laptop which I use for my business. Some software programmes which I have are not designed or compatible for Macs. Win 7 was pre-installed.

    Anyway over Easter after Microsoft pissed me off long enough, I prayed and took the plunge after reading up on Win 10 and getting ALL the back-ups ready.

    Apart from one problem it worked better than expected.

    I couldn’t get films or Youtube to work properly, things got chopped up. WOS worked…!

    My PC doctor (an immigrant from Czech Republic) 🙂 had a look at it and after chatting with Microsoft cleared up the prob.

    My Win 10 works as good as 7. Some things are a little different but otherwise no stress.

  3. Paula Rose says:

    Brilliant cartoon!

  4. Lenny Hartley says:

    At my naw bags sis in law just after the ge, Ruthie tank commander on her TV, I like her she is honest says my sis in law, I said she has just told a lie 10 seconds ago. Sis in law says what. I said She just said that the SNP vote had peaked, well they have said my sis in law, I told her that as the SNP had just received over a million votes for the first time that meant that the SNP vote was still rising and had not peaked. Doesn’t matter she is still honest says my sis in law. Some folk are too thick to realise they are being lied too on a daily basis, mind you her mother came from Belfast so that explains a lot..

  5. carjamtic says:

    Memo from H.Q.

    The buyers of time,please be nice to Scottish people,please buy us some time,till we sort ourselves out,please Ruth,please Kez,please Henry,please David…..pretty please BBC.

    Wear badges,say maybe to everything,say anything is possible,print positive Indy headlines,positive Indy articles,stall them,stop that tick fukcing tocking.

    What do you mean,you have no credibility left,you’re the famous buffalo rider and you’re a beard muncher,surely that counts for something….they’re mocking you….looks like we’ve just fukced ourselves…right,left and centre,please don’t let Murray win the All England,please have some pity,show some mercy….



  6. Chic McGregor says:

    I went for Linux Mint last time rather than Ubuntu. So far so better.

  7. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Lenny Hartley –

    Similar experience with relative couple of days ago.

    Voted No in 2014. Voted to leave EU. Reads Daily Mail, watches Reporting Scotland, considers self to be ‘well-informed’ and ‘interested in politics’.

    ‘Oh, it’s all a real mess isn’t it?’

    ‘You voted for it!’

    ‘Just because I voted for it doesn’t make it my fault.’

    Is that circular reasoning, simple idiocy, or some combination of both?

    Sometimes it’s hard not to fall into terminal despair – is it too much to ask that we be allowed to live our short dreich lives without Tories? And is it too much to expect our own friends, families and neighbours to use the common sense they were born with and wake the fuck up?


    🙁 🙁 🙁

  8. Chic McGregor says:


    “Et tu Camus
    Et tu Borus
    Et tu Govus”

    “Et tu Bridies” – Baillie 🙂

  9. James Barr Gardner says:

    Strange that there is no deputy prime minister, he could have pressed the 50 button ?

  10. galamcennalath says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:

    “And is it too much to expect our own friends, families and neighbours to use the common sense they were born with and wake the fuck up”

    I have used this analogy before but I think it’s apt.

    Voting has become like buying a used car from someone you don’t know in a supermarket car park for cash. No returns. No guarantees. No Trading Standards to help.

    Enough research, accumulating knowledge, understanding issues, careful judgement, and you stand a good chance of making the right decision for you and your family’s needs.

    Alternatively, you might be really impressed with the fluffy pink dice and say, “done deal”.

    Too many voters apply the latter logic!

  11. heedtracker says:

    Just got emailed this via Icelandair. Just shows how sport successes can raise country’s profile.

    This Sunday Iceland is playing France in the quarter finals.
    Share your Icelandic name below by adding “sson” (male) or “sdóttir“ (female) to your father‘s first name. So if your name is Chris and your father‘s name is George, your Icelandic name would be Chris Georgesson. Simple, right?
    Two lucky winners will get an Iceland football shirt with their Icelandic name on the back!
    Note: Winners will be contacted on Wednesday, July 6th


  12. Ruby says:

    The follow was the result of my first test with ‘speech to text.

    ‘But still talk about the possibility of a second Scottish independence referendum on the week of the big support definitely have two happens and that’s a bigger depending as it does on the opinion polls as well as the actions so many delegates was again come down to economics so let’s talk to the economists role that dog was the university under the time of sliced charge would you both so what do you see the economic picture for Scotland and in the run-up to repudiate the third NEF two goals first what’

    on the week of the big support = in the wake of the Brexit vote

    if indeed Indy2 happens and that’s a big if ………………as well as the reaction of the European states

    role the dog = Ronald McDonald 🙂

    under the time of sliced charge – John McLaren 🙂

    I used Express Scribe to slow down the audio in order to
    make checking the text easier.

    It’s not bad better than typing it all from scratch.
    Words like Brexit & IndyRef2 will not be recognisable.

    If you notice that Brexit vote is always transcibed as ‘big support’ (which is quite funny – only big support in England) you could just find and replace all instances of ‘big support’ for Brexit vote.

  13. heedtracker says:

    Very weird Rancid The Graun’s front page header could go on UKOK literally forever. When does Brexit stop being a crisis anyway? Brexit catastrophuck next

    Brexit crisis
    3 July 2016

  14. heedtracker says:

    Christ knows why but this UK spaceman Tim is really funny

    Peake said: “I missed a lot of the campaigning, but I’m aware now that it caused divisiveness and some of it was not done in the most positive fashion. We have to put that behind us now and work on unity and moving forwards.”

    Peake is involved in several experiments into the effects of weightlessness on the human body. He had barely been back on Earth a week when Britain voted to leave the EU in a marginal referendum that threw the future unity of the UK into doubt and sent the major political parties into crises from which they have yet to recover.

    “I have seen some comments on Twitter saying everything was fine until Tim Peake came back to Earth,” he told the Guardian in his first newspaper interview since landing. “That did make me feel rather bad.”

  15. Stoker says:

    Following on from Chris’ cartoon, this from the WOS Twitter:

    “Labour MPs are walking around saying ‘we’re going to knife you, we’re going to knife you’ while waving spoons in the air.”

    Laughing my derriere off!

  16. bjsalba says:

    Going back to Chris’s cartoon at the top of this piece, I can see a cartoon of circles of people backstabbing each other. A Tory circle, a Labour circle, maybe even a tiny lib-Dem Circle (not sure about that one – are there enough?).

    As far as Green MPs and UKIP MPs go I don’t think singles can form a circle although as they twirl they may be in a world of their own, sort of like Sufi mystics?

    The audience? SNP MPs watching in amazement.

  17. heedtracker says:

    Well at least UKIP Scotland isn’t descending into back stabbing because there’s hardly anyone left in UKIP Scotland now.

    Herald says

    “UKIP’s only elected politician in Scotland is now treasurer of his local branch because there are so few members north of the border.

    At least four office bearers in Fife have quit since the party’s woeful showing at the Holyrood elections, meaning David Coburn MEP has been forced to take on a treasurer’s position at a recent AGM.

    Members in Scotland have revealed that activists are deserting Coburn’s local branch and questioned whether he can continue as leader in Scotland.

    UKIP Fife met in Kirkcaldy last Sunday for the branch AGM and only half a dozen people turned up. David Coburn swelled the numbers to seven, according to a source at the meeting.”

  18. yesindyref2 says:

    So a quick recap of where we seem to be. The SNP have talked about the possibility of Indy Ref 2 because of the EU Leave vote in the UK, but 62% (that’s 62% not 3 out of 5, nor 60%, but 62%) voted Remain in Scotland. They have also talked about it but not of course negotiated with many people in the EU and have received either favourable reactions, or the legal response, which doesn’t say NO to Scotland staying in. But they do say we’d need to be Independent all over the EU and seem to like us.

    Meanwhile the Greens seem to be supportive of Indy Ref 2 which is good, because they do have a “consult the people” mandate in their manifesto. But urgent times demand urgent reponses, perhaps.

    The LibDems in Scotland have made favourable noises and are pretty quiet, which might mean they’re considering their position while watching carefully what’s going on. It also looks like at the least they won’t block Indy Ref 2 legislation in Holyrood.

    The Labour Party in Scotland seem to be a bit split over Indy, but if left alone to talk it over amongst themselves, could at the very least be neutral in Indy Ref 2, and might come over to the YES side if give suitable courtesy and encouragement. It’s open.

    And then The Conservatives won’t block Indy Ref 2, and not only that, say that Westminster should not block it either. This is an advance, and a welcome one.

    And UKIP are falling apart in Scotland, if they were ever together in the first place.

    But apart from all that bad news, everything is going swimmingly for HMS United Kingdom.

  19. galamcennalath says:

    Thoughtful stuff from Gerry Hassan …

    “The problem with such ideas [inside UK solutions] isn’t the EU, but the British government. The rump UK is heading for a prolonged period of turbulence and disruption, as the Tories accelerate their right wing project of attacking public spending and services. They are going to be ill-disposed to any deal which diminishes the UK into a little England state.”

    The reality is we need Indyref2 and we need to win it!

  20. Graeme says:

    I saw an odd thing today at a bootsale inside a hanger there is around 20-30 flags hanging from the roof of all nationalities

    every flag was hanging proudly including the Scotland & EU flags except for 2 flags which was the St George cross & the union jack, the St George cross was twisted around it’s hanging wire and the Union jack was folded in 2 across the diagonal quite deliberately by the look of it

    there was no mistaking the meaning of the folded Union Jack although the St George Cross could have accidental but if so what a coincidence

    was it an omen I wonder


  21. Chilcot report coming out this week,

    Tony Blair and the Labour Party need to be prosecuted for war crimes,

    today 126 people including 25 children died in a car bomb blast in Baghdad,

    180,000 civilian violent deaths,

    250,000 if you include combatants,

    all because Tony Blair and The Labour party lied about WMD in Iraq,

    Chilcot report 2.6 million words,

    three words would cover it,

    `Tony Blair guilty`.

  22. Breeks says:

    It’s very difficult to influence somebodies opinion at the best of times, but don’t forget, you are trying to promote a concept which a No voter might genuinely find alarming or threatening, definitely unsettling, only for them later to relax in the comfort of their homes, curl up with the dog and a nice cuppa and have the good old BBC reassure them everything is peachy just the way it is, and don’t let these nasty, tricksy, heretic nationalists persuade you otherwise.

    Seriously folks, for all the flags and knocking on doors, Yes 2 will be one or lost according to whoever wins the propaganda battle in the livingrooms of Scotland, and just like before, we only have access to what comes out our televisions, and precious little say or control about what goes in.

    Please, don’t be complacent about having the arguments and proofs to counter the 2014 Project Fear. We haven’t just learned it was all false propaganda, we actually knew that back in 2014 but we had no means to publically discredit the lies. Guess what. Unless any of these No to Yes converts has a spare digital broadcasting network on them, we still don’t.

    The BBC can tell us porky pies from now until Christmas and bind us to their agenda as effortlessly as they did in 2014. Unless pro-Indy spokespeople are prepared to contest the propaganda, then the media will run rampant just like it did the last time.

    If the Scot Gov has nothing up its sleeve to make a significant and material difference to broadcasting, then get the winter woolies ready because it will be the same debacle as 2014 and we’re going to end up dragged out into the mid Atlantic by our caring sharing friends down South, all courtesy of BBC Goebbels.

  23. CmonIndy says:

    The interviewer: Gordon Brewer
    The interviewee: failed SLAB MSP Gemma Doyle
    The quote: I’m pleased the Tory party upheaval is taking attention away from the Labour Party.

    Self-awareness score: bigfatzero.

  24. stewartb says:

    I’m sure I’m not alone in being angry at the media attention given (without any challenge) to the recent Centre for Policy Studies (CPS) report which makes comparisons between Scotland and Greece in order to influence the Scottish electorate.

    Reading the full report reveals that the authors seek to conflate EU membership with eurozone membership – and they suggest that Scotland is seeking eurozone membership; and having compared Scotland with Greece throughout the report, they actually end up by denying equivalence! This is a propaganda piece pure and simple: and likely to be the first of many as Project Fear ramps up.

    The claim that an independent Scotland would be forced to join the Euro as a condition of EU membership gets raised time and time again. It even seems to get some acceptance from posts on this site despite the efforts of others to debunk it. I’m no lawyer but the situation seems pretty clear (with apologies for the length of this!).

    If Scotland did have to apply as a NEW member (a big if) then the Commission states that: “Accession criteria are identical for all countries and remain those defined by the 1993 Copenhagen European Council.”

    So what follows would also pertain to Scotland, IF treated as a new accession state – arguably a worst case outcome, at least for pro-EU supporters.

    “All Member States of the European Union, except Denmark and the United Kingdom, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as ‘convergence criteria’.”

    But it is also stated that:

    “The Treaty does not specify a particular timetable for joining the euro area, but leaves it to Member States to develop their own strategies for meeting the conditions for euro adoption.”

    The eurozone was established in 1999 when most existing EU members joined. Among the others, the UK and Denmark opted out and Sweden chose not to meet the necessary criteria: 17 years later, Sweden is still not a member and seems content to maintain this status.

    A necessary precursor to joining the eurozone is participation in the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM II). Crucially, according to the Commission:

    “Participation in ERM II is voluntary although, as one of the convergence criteria for entry to the euro area, a country must participate in the mechanism without severe tensions for at least two years before it can qualify to adopt the euro.” ( )

    So, participation in the ERM is a necessary precursor to joining the Eurozone AND participation in the ERM is voluntary. This accounts for Sweden’s longstanding position of choice.

    What about other non-eurozone EU members? The list below is of countries that joined the EU post-1999 and shows how long they have existed as EU members without being in the eurozone, and notably without a formal UK-type opt out ( ):

    Czech Republic – c.12 years as a non-eurozone EU member (.. and counting?)
    Hungary – c.12 years
    Poland – c.12 years
    Bulgaria – c.9 years
    Romania – c.9 years
    Croatia – c.3 years.

    Some post-1999 EU members who now have chosen to join the eurozone did so only after a substantial period of time e.g. Estonia after c. 7 years; Latvia after c.10 years; Lithuania after c.11 years.

    Therefore, it would not be exceptional for Scotland to see two or more parliamentary cycles pass and still not opt in to the (voluntary) ERM. Seeking a mandate from the Scottish electorate to do so may even be a good thing in 15 years!

    In contrast to the recurring statements that an independent Scotland in the EU would be forced to join the eurozone, the following are a couple of illustrative extracts from the political and economic discourse in Europe to provide some much needed, additional context.

    “Of the seven countries (outside the eurozone but without formal opt outs), Poland is the largest and the most strategic country. Currently it falls short of only two criteria and both are just a matter of little more than political will. The alignment of certain national laws could rapidly be implemented. And the still excessive budget to GDP ratio, resulting also from recent anti-cyclical policies to counter the economic crisis, could also be reined in a few years. But the victory of a Eurosceptic government – and the deeper trends in the Polish society it reflects – postpones membership in the euro to an undefined future, regardless of its Treaty obligations. Some of the other non-euro countries are in a similar situation.” (

    In short, joining the eurozone or not is in reality a political decision for the sovereign government of Poland.

    “Sweden is not yet a member of the euro area. The Swedish krona is not yet within the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM II)”, and there is an acknowledgement that: “Sweden does not have a target date to adopt the euro.” (

    Once again, joining the eurozone is a decision for Sweden – no ‘forcing’!

    Finally, and interestingly, although having a formal opt-out from joining the eurozone, Denmark is a longstanding member of the ERM. And of course, Denmark borders (and trades normally with) one eurozone member, Germany, and one EU member that is not currently in the euro, Sweden, not to mention close proximity and links to Norway that is in neither club. It is also worthwhile remembering that official Nordic co-operation involving Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden as well as the Faroe Islands, Greenland and the Åland Islands claims to be “one of the most comprehensive regional partnerships anywhere in the world” (

  25. call me dave says:

    Hark the Herald.

    A wee summary of today’s developments:

    Don’t all rush at once for your tea cakes… 🙂

  26. Papadox says:

    Tony Blair Gordie Brown slithers out from under a rock to deflect any hint of guilt from CHILCOT and cover up the poison of Westminster establishment. Two cheeks of the same arse a the mother of parliaments and its democratic benefits. Makes you proud. God bless HMG and her majesty.

  27. Robert J. Sutherland says:


    Gemma Doyle ex-MP (not MSP) seems to be BBC Scotland’s yoon rent-a-quote du jour.

    One of the former “low-flying Jims” now safely decamped to London, and whose ongoing career depends heavily on Westminster.

    She is one of the Labour Unionist bitter-enders who will have no relevance whatever in an independent Scotland (and knows it).

  28. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland
    If Brewer (or his string-puller) could only find ex-everything Doyle to interview to get the appropriate noises, then what about the rest of the Labour party in Scotland …

  29. Alastair says:

    Re Labour turmoil. Worth a read.

    Or google Portland Communication and Tony Blair.

  30. Caledonius says:

    Welcome to Scotland 2016!

    Where, as the cartoon shows, your elected leaders back stab each other – far too busy to actually run things after a disastrous Brexit vote!

    Where your vote has no real influence on the outcome of ‘UK’ Westminster governments.

    Where your elected MPs are mocked weekly if you chose SNP (BAD!) rather than Labour MPs.

    Where you will be ruled by a Tory Party less than 14% of your nation voted for.

    Where ‘UK’ government tells you we must pull resources for the good of all, while asset stripping your nation and damaging your economy.

    Where you will be expected to bow to a Queen and abide laws influenced or set by unelected Lords.

    Where some of your own people betray your nation for some nice ermine and a fancy title.

    Where your will pay an unjust TV licence just to be told how rubbish and inferior your nation and your people are on a daily basis, via TV and radio, by those who benefit from said fee.

    Where your own media sabotaged your chances of Independence two years ago. Remember – we are wee poor idiots!

    Where ‘THE VOW’ and numerous other promises made to Scotland in 2014 turned out to be much like our national animal, pure fantasy. What did it matter? For we are just the people of Scotland – here to be lied to and humiliated while told to eat our porridge.

    Where you can wake one morning to find you are to be stripped of European citizenship, because your neighbor to the south says so! (Despite your nation voting 62% to Remain in the EU). Thus linking back to the first point – Scottish votes have no real influence in the UK.

    This is the Scotland we are told is ‘Better Together’ with the UK.

    NAE MORE! Bring on Indyref2!

  31. heedtracker says:

    Rancid Graun latest Brexit shock wave, after two year EU Swiss negotiations,

    “EU tells Swiss no single market access if no free movement of citizens
    Swiss-EU talks reveal determination of EU to make no concessions to UK over Brexit terms

    The European Union is to show its determination to make no concessions to the UK on Brexit terms by telling Switzerland it will lose access to the single market if it goes ahead with plans to impose controls on the free movement of EU citizens.

    The Swiss-EU talks, under way for two years but now needing a solution possibly within weeks, throws up the exact same issues that will be raised in the UK’s exit talks – the degree to which the UK must accept free movement of the EU’s citizens as a price for access to the single market.”

    Ouchee. UKOK ouchee.

  32. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    HandandShrimp @ 23:13, 02.July:

    Andrea Leadsome (nope not a clue) is also a Leave type and is now being touted as possible winner.

    “Not a clue” indeed, but applies far more to her, it would seem. She is being quoted as claiming to be the new Mrs. Thatcher.

    That should go down just spiffingly here!

  33. Dorothy Devine says:

    Disrespecting Scotland merely giving a reprise of Brewers Politics Scotland.

    It needs to be cut off at the knee sooner rather than later.

  34. heedtracker says:

    Royals really do so much for us

    Ref 2 has clearly kicked off in Pacific Quay but this time, no SNP or YES campaign should engage with the BBC at all. Last time most SNP seemed to deliberately not engage with ranting and raging Lab or BBC gimps in tv debate, so its not that big a step.

    BBC Scotland in particular are the clear leading NO campaigners so just let them get on with it now. They all looked mental as anything 2 years ago, this time the whole Europe will be watching BBC madasfuck Project Fearing. They will at least understand how the BBC really does Scotland down, how right wing corrupt they are and relentless anti democratic monstering of Holyrood.

    BBC Scotland think they can crush ref2 and there will not be a ref3.

  35. Dal Riata says:


    I’m not sure if it’s already been told here, but, with regards to the Iceland – who will be playing the home nation, France, in the quarter-final of the European Championship tonight – supporters’ now iconic [Clap!] “Huh!” chant/warcry, did you know that it did, indeed, originate in Scotland – Motherwell, no less!

    From Icelandmag:

    The celebratory “Viking cry” originates from Scotland. Supporters of football team Stjarnan made the chant theirs after being inspired by fans of the Scottish team Motherwell back in 2014.

    The Icelandic national team now leads supporters into the Viking “war cry” at the end of a match to show their appreciation for the supporters’ dedication and support.

    Is there anything we Scots *haven’t* invented…?! LOL! 🙂

  36. galamcennalath says:

    heedtracker says:

    “throws up the exact same issues that will be raised in the UK’s exit talks – the degree to which the UK must accept free movement ”

    Ouchee indeed. I can see the trade talks between UK and EU going on well beyond the actual Exit date. Article 50 date plus two years may be cutting it fine.

    Also, in the midst of this, Scotland is supposed to get special terms from EU, negotiated by the UK side? Not a hope in Hell. Tories grudge giving Scotland shite reek.

    So, we follow the only solution available – IndyRef2. We win, set indenpendence date and begin talks with both UK and EU. UK to divide assets and debt. EU to secure the soon to be vacant UK seat.

    The UK is going to find the negotiations with the EU difficult. All the indications are that they aren’t in the mood for cherry picking.

    I expect the Scotland EU negotiations to conclude to mutual satisfaction.

    That leaves Scotland’s uncoupling from UK talks. I can see the Tories being bloody minded, given everything else that is going wrong with their cosy Neoliberal UK. I think we might see the EU playing a part here, after all we are (almost) a member state by then.

  37. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Saw Blair earlier today, on Sky, dishing out ‘advice’ re Labour’s woes.


    Is this supposed to be some kind of charm offensive?

    Here’s one especially for him:

    Radiohead, ‘Burn The Witch’ –

  38. sassenach says:

    The SNP should refuse all invitations from the BBC to appear in interview programmes, on the basis that they are misrepresented at every opportunity by the likes of Brewster et al.

    BBC will always slant their output on any topic – they are the Westminster propaganda arm, after all – so why give them the opportunity? I think the public would soon realise what was going on.

    Or the SNP need to go on the attack – but that’s a tricky thing to achieve.

  39. Dan Huil says:

    @heedtracker 6:29pm

    Agreed. But the boycott it has to be rigorously upheld by everyone in the SNP and Yes camps. Difficult.

  40. Caledonius says:

    @Dal Riata

    Ha! The more you know. ^^

  41. Robert Graham says:

    unless the SNP get off their arses and disrupt BBC interviews as soon as the interruptions start TV & Radio directly confront the actor from the bbc because that is what they are actors following a script dont allow them to continue even if it means walking while making the point why make it personal play the man or woman f/k the ball if they are not sure of the reaction they will soon get the message and be removed from their comfort zone .

  42. Dal Riata says:

    Twitter: Aaron Bastani

    “Kinnock, the Sun, Cameron, Geldof, Campbell and Blair all call on Corbyn to resign.

    I’ve never been surer of which is the right side.”

    Absolutely spot on!

  43. Capella says:

    Resignation demands escalate – now the Telegraph is hoping JC Junker will have to resign – unnamed sources say… Well they never liked him anyway.
    Where will all this end?

    New Presidency of the Council of the European Union, Slovakia, led by Robert Fico, took up office on 1st July. But Donald Tusk, President of the European Council, is still in post. It’s all very confusing,. I wonder which President “snubbed” Nicola on 30th June? Donald Tusk, or Mark Rutte who would have been clearing his desk?

  44. Dal Riata says:

    Three days until the much-delayed Chilcot Report is released.

    Hopefully, Corbyn has doubled-up his security team (and done extensive background research on each one of them), doesn’t go for walks unaccompanied, has his food and water tested before consumption, has had a full-body health examination to check for any irregularities, keeps himself well clear of sharp implements, doesn’t take too many car journeys, and so on, until July 6th… you know, just in case of ‘accidents’, or that all the pressure should ‘bring on a fatal heart-attack’, or that he should even ‘contemplate taking his own life’…

    We just wouldn’t want that, now, would we British Establishment, MI5, MI6 and other covert actors of state…?

  45. Capella says:

    The stress on Corbyn must be horrendous. But he has obviously got nerves of steel to withstand the constant pressure. Chunky Mark’s sad observation on the bullying – “he’s an old man”.

  46. Ken500 says:

    Brewer’s and Smith’s programmes are being decommissions. They are being taken off air. No audience. Not enough viewers. They are nonsense and no one views them. They gave takes themselves out of a job. Renton has transferred to Londom. The Labour Mafia staff are gradually closing down BBC talking nonsense. What will arise from the Phoenix and the ashes.

    The criminal warmongers are trying to get rid off Corbyn before the Chilcot Report comes out. He is going to impeach Blair. The Blairites and their associates are going to get called out including the criminal Murdoch.

    The hysteria will rise. Blair/Brown could get sued and bankrupted. The Ministry of Defence could get sued for £Billions. Murdoch can’t buy Corbyn nor can any of the right wing Press. Corbyn is the only one without blood on his hands. It will be a blood letting. Corbyn is an honourable man.

    The only way to end the destruction of the Middle East and the world, is to sanction and punish Blair and the others, for their despicable behaviour. Vulnerable people are still being sanction, and killed at home and abroad. They have caused the migration in Europe.

  47. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Capella.

    J-C Juncker snubbed Nicola – 0n both cheeks!

  48. Rock says:

    Brian Doonthetoon,

    “Hi Rock.

    You typed,
    “I thought it was absolutely clear to everyone that the EU absolutely cannot in any way force Article 50.”

    I certainly wouldn’t presume to know that anything re Article 50 was “absolutely clear”.

    Here are two examples:-

    It’s pointless to assume that something is a “fact”, if those at the sharp end don’t even know.”

    The wording of the treaty has not left any doubt at all.

    It is a FACT that only the member state can trigger Article 50.

    Everyone in the EU wants Article 50 to be triggered immediately.

    But they are being held to ransom by the British establishment and are completely powerless to do anything about it.

  49. Ruby says:

    Graeme says:
    3 July, 2016 at 4:36 pm

    I saw an odd thing today at a bootsale inside a hanger there is around 20-30 flags hanging from the roof of all nationalities

    every flag was hanging proudly including the Scotland & EU flags except for 2 flags which was the St George cross & the union jack, the St George cross was twisted around it’s hanging wire and the Union jack was folded in 2 across the diagonal quite deliberately by the look of it

    there was no mistaking the meaning of the folded Union Jack although the St George Cross could have accidental but if so what a coincidence

    was it an omen I wonder


    Ruby replies

    That sounds as if it could be a great photo!

    Famous photo of American flag by Robert Mapplethorpe

  50. call me dave says:



    Ruthie now singing from a different hymn sheet than in the election.

    Just gargling before the footie to be ready for the Icelandic ‘HUH’ or ‘HOOO’ even. Good luck!

  51. Rock says:

    Lenny Hartley,

    “Rock , agree with you on Brexit, however it’s a bit strange that they have lost their seat at the big table without implementing Article 50. since they are presumably still paying their membership fees, you would think they would still be represented in the Council of Ministers?”

    I think they will only be excluded when the other 27 are discussing Brexit.

    That is why there was one summit with Cameron and another one without him the next day.

  52. Ken500 says:

    Corbyn is now protected by a Police Squad at his front door and plain clothes when he goes out?

    Blair is paying to wage a corrupt campaign against Corbyn.

    The West are still taking Iraq’s Oil and resources, including by Blair and Associates. They are not using the money to repair the damage doen in Iraq. It is still devastated. An disaster area of poverty, no water, electricity, proper health facilities or sanitation.

    The Tories should be put in jail for electoral fraud. There should be up to 29 by-election. If the Tories had not cheated to win by 12 seats. There would not have been a EU Referendum. They could not have created such devastation.

  53. Ruby says:

    I have to report that his ‘speech to text’ app is a great help when transcibing audio it does make mistakes but it does a lot of the work for you you just need to correct the errors.
    This is what I’ve done:

    This is a transcript of the McLaren/McDonald interview on GMS.

    I haven’t thoroughly looked it over to correct errors perhaps if someone else is bored they could edit it.

    I always find the written word to be more profound that an audio file and it’s easier to discuss the content of a written document than a text file.

  54. Cadogan Enright says:

    While the Irish media gloat over the opportunities arising from being the only English speaking country in EU and look to grabbing 1000’s of English high-paid jobs, and with Irish politicians polishing their vetos over any hard boarder and making contingency plans go leor for handling currency fluctuations and trade with UK. . . . .


    The S and Corp Scottish media see no benefits for Scotland at all of staying in EU. Steel fences on boarder guarded by troops (available presumably as no boarder with Republic to guard) and the EBC allowing right-wing campaign groups to pick their headlines like “Scottish economy – Greece without the sunshine”

    Funny that

  55. Rock says:


    “I find Bozo’s resignation and Gove’s self nomination for Pm as a total con designed between them to let both shysters off the hook…”


    It is a contrick.

    They are all trying to get off the hook.

    As I had posted in another article, it would be utter madness for the Scottish Parliament to block Brexit and let Westminster off the hook.

    That is why the BBC put it to Nicola and then claimed for several days that Nicola had suggested it.

  56. Ruby says:

    call me dave

    Did she say all that on the Gordon Brewer show?

    I might have to do a written transcript of that show!

  57. Ken500 says:

    Article 50 has never been exercised before. There is no precedent on this scale. The EU members can do what they like. They want it done soon – to contain and stop the contagion, which will bring the EU/world economy down. Iceland left on easy terms. Iceland 1/2Million people would not have created much turbulence. A small economy.

  58. Rock says:


    Grouse Beater,

    “Cock of the Rock: “we in Scotland””

    YOU were caught out LYING:

    Grouse Beater,

    “An EC commissioner states:

    “Discussions on transitional arrangements for an indy Scotland to remain in the EU after the UK leaves – are indeed taking place in Brussels.””


    “Any idea which EU commissioner STATED that?

    And the media in which the quoted statement was reported?”

    Grouse Beater,

    “Yes. But you can do your own homework.”


    “There is absolutely no way a NAMED EU commissioner would have STATED that.

    Prove me wrong by naming the Commissioner who said it and in which media it was reported.”

    Grouse Beater,

    “No one here is answerable to you, a discredited troll. You know what you can do with your trolling and bullying. Only check first for a dead squirrel blocking it.”

    You have been caught out LYING, so you resort to personal abuse.

  59. Sinky says:

    Cadogan Enright says:@8.05

    That is why no SNP politician was on Sunday Politics show as they would have been able to expose the flawed “think tank” report.

    Just as they were denied the oxygen of publicity on BBC Question Time on Thursday.

    Bias is not just what the BBC says it is what is does as well.

  60. Stoker says:

    call me dave wrote: “We have a list.”

    The Rev was looking for this on the WOS Twitter earlier today.
    Don’t know if he’s seen it yet, i’m just back online.
    Thanks for the link, bookmarked into my armoury.

  61. Rock says:

    Many posters here had already welcomed McLeish to our side with open arms earlier in the week:


    “Anyone, absolutely anyone who now advocates a Yes vote is on our side.”


    “The likes of JK Rowling, McLeish, the Daily Record will stab us again in the back when the time comes.”

  62. call me dave says:


    Ruthie article mentions Sunday politics but I haven’t watched it yet:
    Here’s the link (Scotland)

    Footie watching

    Hmm! With new nappiessons… Mothercare in Iceland. 🙁

  63. Rock says:


    “Corbyn is now protected by a Police Squad at his front door and plain clothes when he goes out?”

    It now seems highly likely to me that if Corbyn does not resign before the Chilcot report is out, he will be assassinated by the Blairites before he gets a chance to speak in the House of Commons.

    I will be very happy to be proven wrong.

    Blair, Straw and Brown must be jailed for life for war crimes.

  64. Capella says:

    @ Brian Doonthetoon – I noticed – fraternal greetings from J-C indeed.
    But not for Cameron. He failed to stop Juncker being elected President of the Commission in 2014, 28 votes to 2 (Hungary was his only ally). A “humiliating” defeat said the Guardian. And it is odd how history repeats itself:

    “On the eve of Friday’s summit, the mass-readership Bild newspaper compared Cameron in Brussels to Wayne Rooney at the World Cup. “He lines up, he loses, then he flies home,” it said. Instead of wanting to be in the most powerful community of nations in the western world, Bild suggested the UK was sleepwalking towards a disastrous exit as other nations would not meet its demands. “The relevance and influence of Great Britain will fall dramatically,” the paper said.”

    Guardian 28thJune 2014 – WW1 commemorations, football matches and UK out of tune with EU.

  65. Kevin Evans says:

    Am pulling my hair out with some folk.

    Spoke to a guy I know from work who is from Holland. He’s stayed here for a while now. He voted no in the Indyref and wasn’t able to vote in the EUref. He was understandably unhappy about the result. I asked him “so ya gonna vote yes or no if there’s an indyref2” he looked at me and told me he’d vote no because of the uncertainty over currency. I looked at him and said “so if you get a vote in indyref2 you’ll vote no and stay with the union who doesn’t let you vote in matters that concern you and your ability to work here”?, “you’re voting yourself out of democracy by surrendering your right to vote in uk refurendums”. He just shrugged his shoulders and hummed.

    I just dunno how to respond to that kind of stupidity.

  66. Sinky says:

    From Craig Murray on his Al Jazeera interview:

    I think the much more interesting points I made were not used at all. So just for the record, I also made these points:

    a) I did not accept the argument that the BBC was biased in the referendum campaign towards Brexit. Indeed especially in the last few days, I thought it was biased towards Remain.
    b) However the BBC had been guilty of helping promote Brexit by giving Farage massive and disproportionate publicity for many years, from when UKIP was a negligible electoral force. They were always willing to give right wings views publicity but not left wing views.
    c) The right wing print media were indeed a major problem distorting democracy. However the solution to this should be to break up media ownership, not impose government control of content.
    d) Project Fear had not succeeded in the Scottish referendum. It had seen a 35 point unionist lead cut to a 10 point lead, making it one of the most disastrous campaigns in history. The question of why Project Fear “succeeded” in Scotland but not the EU referendum was therefore a false one.
    e) Media coverage focused on the despised political class rather than the facts.

  67. heedtracker says:

    Awe Iceland.

    FT latest musings on the oncoming Brexit economic catastrophuck.

    Get out while/if you can, if you cant…

    “But if you want to set up something similar tomorrow, and don’t want to wait years until the post-Brexit rules are revealed, you might look across the Channel. Otherwise you risk having to ask an anti-immigrant government for a work permit whenever you want to hire someone. (If businesses didn’t like “Brussels red tape”, wait till they discover post-Brexit red tape.)

    In 2012, when the new French government was taking an anti-business line, British prime minister David Cameron (now an Orwellian un-person) promised to “roll out the red carpet” for French businesses. London’s then mayor, a multilingual cosmopolitan named Boris Johnson, implored: “Venez à Londres, mes amis (Come to London, my friends!)”
    Now it’s France’s turn. Valérie Pécresse, president of the greater Paris region, says: “It’s absolutely vital that we roll out the red carpet for [companies leaving the UK].” Johnson used to boast that London had a bigger French population than Bordeaux. One day a Paris mayor might make a similar claim about the number of Brits in her city.”

    The Irish are rubbing their hands too but if Scotland can get out, become a nation state again, and stay in the EU?

    Can a clusterfcuk of BBC gimps in Pacific Quay, all the newsrooms in Scotland, STV, really destroy Scotland’s future prosperity completely?

  68. Ruby says:

    Did Ruth the Tory not promise her voters that she would save the Union?

    ‘However, she put herself on a collision course with the Tory leadership candidates, including Theresa May, by stating that gaining access to the EU single market should be the absolute priority of a post-Brexit trade deal between the EU and the UK even if that means accepting freedom of movement’

    All her ‘loyal’ supporters will ditching her in favour of UKIP.

    The EU referendum was all about immigration and this freedom of movement problem it seems completely crazy to suggest we brexit and but still have this uncontrolled immigration/freedom of movement that everyone voted against!

  69. heedtracker says:

    Because this is their BBC England…


    “We cosmopolitans can dodge national economic disasters because we are mobile: if one country sticks a serrated knife into its own belly and then starts celebrating “independence day”, we just pack up our children and go elsewhere.

    I worry more about the people I met last month in Birkenhead, a poor English town across the Mersey river from Liverpool. Thousands of locals have to resort to food banks to feed their children. Others are too proud to do so and go hungry. Much of the scant investment in Birkenhead since the 1990s has come in the form of EU subsidies.

    I don’t think that Brexit will improve these people’s lives, but no doubt I’m just a patronising out-of-touch elitist.”

  70. Rock says:

    Robert Louis,

    “Regarding the postponement of article 50. I do not think it will be left postponed, and will indeed be implemented, for the simple reason that a failure to implement may very well break the Tory party.”

    The Tory party is under the control of the City of London.

    The City of London wants to remain the money laundering capital of the world and thus wants the UK to remain in the EU.

    The Tories thought they could blackmail the EU by seeking concessions regarding free movement of people in the single market.

    Fortunately, the EU are having none of it: “No notice, no negotiations”.

    The Tories are now desperately trying to wriggle out of triggering Article 50.

    It would be utter madness for the Scottish Parliament to block Brexit and let Westminster off the hook.

  71. Robert Graham says:

    Oops Iceland not doing so well , its probably just me but some of the tackles by the French players with arms legs everything at once taking the player ball and everything in sight just like bloody bulldozers and a decidedly homer referee Iceland are playing 12 men just goes to show what a biased f/kr I am not looking forward to the second half.

  72. Another Union Dividend says:

    Among the crucial 2014 NO voters were university academics and researchers and the financial sector both of whom face huge job losses as a result of Brexit.

    We need to reach out to them with letters and phone ins like

    Also strange why BBC / MSM have no coverage of this significant EU change of personnel.

  73. Kevin Evans says:

    Yea France are “playing the man not the ball”


  74. Another Union Dividend says:

    Robert Graham

    France streets ahead of Iceland .. just shows how poor England were.

  75. Rock says:

    Kevin Evans,

    “I just dunno how to respond to that kind of stupidity.”

    In my view, there are three groups of extremely stubborn/selfish people whom it is both completely useless and completely unnecessary to try to convince to vote Yes:

    The vast majority of the British Nationalist elderly, the selfish middle classes and the English.

    I would guess your guy is middle class?

    They will only ever convince themselves when they think it is in their interests to do so.

    Just ignore them until then. They will not listen to us.

    Only after they have convinced themselves, you can “embrace” and encourage them.

  76. call me dave says:

    New Poll:

    Panelbase poll of Westminster voting intentions (Scotland-only) :

    SNP 50%
    Conservatives 19%
    Labour 18%
    Liberal Democrats 5%

  77. Kevin Evans says:

    Yea I agree rock.

    I’d say he’s middle class and his wife and her family are defo britnats.

    I just don’t understand why someone would vote to no be allowed to vote in the future.

  78. Glamaig says:

    Apologies if this has been posted before

    Someone with experience of the economy of a small country with close ties to the UK. It’s good to see ScotGov take such decisive action, unlike the shambles at Westminster. I’ve been really proud to be Scottish, this last week, and depressed that I’m going abroad in September with a British passport.

  79. heedtracker says:

    FT Brexit video, Brexit recession for the UK, big and or small, permanent end of UKOK growth with demand shock in the EU. Well done Brexiteers. No wonder BoJO and the pig fancier bottled it.

  80. Nana says:

    Article 50 process on Brexit faces legal challenge to ensure parliamentary involvement

    I believe these are the establishment lawyers

  81. Robert J. Sutherland says:


    It would be utter madness for the Scottish Parliament to block Brexit and let Westminster off the hook.

    We seem to be into hair-splitting territory now. Holyrood can’t actually block Brexit, but it can add one more hurdle to a process that will in any case be fraught with untold difficulties, and annoy the UK into the process. Scotland has the right to prevent itself being trampled over by the UK in the latter’s unseemly haste to jump off a cliff.

    The bigger the UK mess the better, as far as indy is concerned. The more likely then that former “no” voters will prefer the relative certainty of an independent Scotland remaining in the EU to the ongoing political impasse of an rUK caught in the horns of the irresolvable dilemma of open trade vs open borders, inevitable broken promises, etc., etc.

    People are steadily turning in ever greater numbers towards indy. What’s not to like?

  82. Cal says:

    Can someone please explain to those Leave voters who are rabidly against the EU because they fear TTIP that there is a far far far greater chance of TTIP happening if the UK negotiates trade deals directly with the USA? They will witness the privatization of everything (including their granny) when that happens. No one does neo-liberal politics like our North American friends and that “special relationship” will only strengthen once the EU buffer has been removed. If Scotland becomes an independent country in the EU we can veto any TTIP proposals. And if we don’t do it there’s 27 other chances for it to be vetoed.

    Oh, and remember also to explain to them that the EU may ask us to commit to adopting the big scary bogey man that is the Euro but that commitment is worthless because we get to choose when to adopt it (ref. Sweden).

    All this bullying of EU nationals by UK politicians currently is absolutely DISGUSTING! Why won’t they commit to safeguarding their status here? Are they afraid there will be a last minute rush to get into the UK before it leaves the EU? Is it beyond the wit of the politicians to devise a way to prevent that – some kind of registration scheme for those currently resident for example? Or are they just callous vindictive xenophobic bastards? They are skating around some very dangerous ideas in London just now and the whole boiling is liable to explode in their face. You cannot treat human beings as bargaing chips in a negotiation. They won’t be able to do it anyway because the other EU countries will retaliate by expelling UK nationals from their countries! So who benefits from their rhetoric? I honestly can’t work that one out. It truly is wicked. As you know I have a pretty low opinion of the UK. I didn’t think it could get any lower. It just did.

  83. heedtracker says:

    FT, this academic thinks EU ref 2 likely, winnable and if not, Germany might get Brussels to offer UK associate membership. Scotland not an issue ofcourse. EU ref2 plan is interesting.

  84. Tam Jardine says:

    And so it begins. The ‘Economic Bulletin’ written by Daniel Mahoney and Tim Knox on behalf of the Centre for Policy Studies is designed to paint as bleak a picture of Scotland’s economic position post- independence and it does so. The starting gun has been fired for this new phase of the media attack on Scottish Independence.

    That this should come just over a week since the UK shot itself if not in the head then perhaps in the kneecap by voting to leave the EU is interesting.

    We are witnessing the most recent and the most significant example of our economy being not merely influenced but controlled by outside of Scotland. I could write at length on all the examples of neglect, of the devastation of key industries but the point remains- Scotland’s economic position is down to decisions made in Westminster for the last 310 years. There are other factors of course- the skills of the workforce, our geographic position and resources.

    How can the authors of the piece make an argument against an Independent Scotland on the basis of the alleged poor state of our economy, our deficit and the fact that we clearly export more to the rest of the UK than we do to the EU one week after England and Wales have initiated (what I believe to be) the single worst economic change imaginable by removing Scotland from the Single Market?

    It highlights how ridiculous it is to judge Scotland’s economic performance or GDP to deficit ratio or her over-reliance on trade with the rest of the UK in such simplistic terms. I wonder- do the report’s authors imagine we are inferior genetically or take longer lunch breaks or type slower? You are damning UK economic policy every time you talk about budget deficits and “challenging public finances”.

    Scotland doesn’t have the infrastructure of a country that has extracted 40 billion barrels of oil from under the North Sea. London does. It wasn’t in Holyrood’s “competence” to rip the heart, liver, lungs and entrails from Scotland’s manufacturing base in the 1980s. It wasn’t Scotland’s decision to throw so many on the scrap heap and it is not on Scotland that so many communities have never truly recovered. And it wasn’t Scotland’s decision to (if we are talking about exports) remove us from the Single Market which counted for £11.56 billion worth of exports in 2014.

    How can you judge Scotland’s economy when it has been controlled by Westminster? A more logical conclusion to take would be that Scotland’s economy has been robust and ultimately more resilient in withstanding control from Westminster than other parts of the UK.

    Despite the pantomime at Westminster which acts (by design or not) to distract us from the wide reaching implications of the decision to leave the EU, we can see clearly that the dominating country of this United Kingdom is in a very bad way. Confident, united, forward-thinking countries do not make collective decisions like this- they do not harm relations with their neighbours and allies. They do not destroy their credibility in the wider world. They do not risk cutting themselves off from the massive trading bloc on their doorstep. They do not alienate and scare a large minority of their workforce and population in this way.

    How Scotland reacts to this will tell us how confident, how united and how forward thinking WE are.

    For all the infuriating articles, reports, opinion pieces and discussions we see in the weeks and months ahead telling us again and again that we cannot be an Independent country we have a straightforward and honest response: how can we afford to leave those capable of such madness in charge?

    Whilst I condemn this shambolic, introverted, selfish and non-functioning internecine Conservative government and the previous decades of mismanagement of our future we stand condemned if we allow ourselves to be swept into a wee spare room on the edge of Europe- if we allow ourselves to be this beaten former nation and source of derision.

    There are risks and difficulties in the path to Independence ahead and we will not wake up blinking the morning after with a shiny new infrastructure and nae chuddy on the pavements. It will take time and hard work, and there will be compromises required of us in our ambitions I am sure. We must do it my friends- and not in a generation, or in 2020 but very, very soon.

    The alternative (that is to say it is not a viable alternative) is for us to slink off into the corner, get back in the box and leave all our fates in the hands of some really evil and some really stupid people who have managed 1 year into their new majority to bring us to a situation where they have jeopardised a market worth over £200 billion to the UK.

    Now that is something to cringe over if it comes to pass.

  85. heedtracker says:

    How shit must the England squad be:D

    Another FT thing, says 16-18 year olds were leavers now but wont by the planned 2020,21 EU ref 2. No mention of their scotland region ofcourse or how 16-18 year olds voted 2014.

    We’re more or else fcuked the now

    . But assuming turnout of 50 per cent (1.39 multiplied by the 36 per cent for 18-24s), Leave would still have won the day, all other things being equal.

    A realistic best-case scenario for the youth turnout would be for turnout among 18-24s to climb back to its 2010 general election level of 51.8 per cent, and for 16 and 17 year-olds to be given the vote, using it at a rate of 72 per cent (1.39 times 51.8). Even here, Leave would still have won last week by the narrowest of margins: 50.3 to 49.7 per cent. Young people could — and should — have voted in far higher numbers, but to say they have only themselves to blame for Leave’s victory is a huge stretch.

    But so much for 2016.

    Our projections show that supporters of Britain’s EU membership could expect to win a referendum in 2021 without 16 and 17 year-olds and assuming only last week’s low reported turnout among 18-24s. Given the backlash to last week’s result, it is arguable that a second referendum would result in something close to that best-case scenario for youth turnout. If so, demographic change might favour a Remain victory even sooner.”

  86. Dr Jim says:

    @Kevin Evans

    Your mate doesn’t happen to enjoy a good game of Rangers does he,remember half the retired Dutch national team played for Rangers at one time or another and maybe being from Holland might be a clue
    Have you checked his spare room for a drum and flute

  87. Legerwood says:

    I see it is now being reported that George Osborne intends to reduce corporation tax to under 15% in order to make the UK more attractive to business post-Brexit.

    Now what was it they said when Mr Salmond was proposing to cut Corporation tax in an independent Scotland?

    So that is one argument they can’t recycle against us in indyref2.

    Wonder what Ms Davidson will say about Mr Osbourne’s plans?

  88. heedtracker says:

    I say, those 20 miles of HS2 rail tunnels look fascinating on their own. How much not Scots oil and gas will pay for the “UK’s high-speed railway network”, that goes nowhere near Scotland?

  89. crazycat says:

    @ Cal

    On Tuesday, the EU will put forward its proposals for ratifying CETA (it is not yet clear whether member states would also need to ratify separately

    CETA is the Canadian version of TTIP. If anything, CETA is worse that TTIP – because it still contains the ISDS, virtually unmodified.

    Any multi-national that does not already have a Canadian office will rapidly acquire one, if there is any chance of TTIP being rejected.

    So I suspect we’re stuffed, either way.

  90. crazycat says:

    “…worse than TTIP -”

    is what I meant, of course.

  91. schrodingers cat says:

    indyref2 hasnt started??

    it has where i live.

    there will be no one to fire the starting gun across scotland, the snp cant and wont, until they are ready to announce indyref2

    meanwhile, everyone on here can see quite clearly that the bbc has started the bt2 campaign.

    re animate your own local yes groups, no one else will, there will be no leader of yes2scotland, only leaders of local grassroots groups.

    we plan to cover our area in car stickers, a4 and a3 window posters and yes saltires.
    where i live, the people will be in no doubt that indyref2 has started

  92. Simon Curran says:

    Thank you to stoner for the link to all those broken promises. Should be through every letter box and on every billboard. The EU referendum just shows how powerless and irrelevant Scottish votes are to the UK government. The SNP can win virtually every Scottish seat in Westminster elections, be the biggest party in Holyrood and still be completely ignored. Perhaps this very weakness might be a strength if people realise that there’s a way to change this otherwise Scotland will always be sacrificed to the wishes of rUK.

  93. Rock says:

    Robert J. Sutherland,

    It would be utter madness for the Scottish Parliament to block Brexit and let Westminster off the hook.”

    “We seem to be into hair-splitting territory now. Holyrood can’t actually block Brexit, but it can add one more hurdle to a process that will in any case be fraught with untold difficulties, and annoy the UK into the process.”

    Can we honestly be any more stupid?

    Knowing that we cannot actual block it, we turn unnecessary attention to ourselves and let Westminster off the hook?

    The BBC started to do that immediately after the vote by bringing this to Nicola’s attention and then the whole unionist media was up with the headlines that Scotland could block Brexit.

    What is (y)our priority, independence or trying unsuccessfully to block Brexit and making fools of ourselves?

    Just when our First Minister has come to the attention of the whole world in a positive light?

  94. call me dave says:

    Radio 5 if you want to listen to more lies and excuses.

    ‘Referendum promises, like moneys all to NHS, don’t count’
    ‘Referendum only advisory’
    ‘After the Scottish referendum people came together’ ??

    and so it goes… 🙂

    Phones lighting up.

  95. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Cal (9.21) –

    ‘…are they just callous vindictive xenophobic bastards?’


    As good a four-word description as I’ve seen.

  96. heedtracker says:

    This is what toryboy England’s become after Brexit, wishing the EU’s destruction. Bankster City fraudster nearly destroyed the world economy, Bomber Bliar and Crash Gordo’s red tories have destroyed the middle east and created 20 million refugees, now its the EU’s turn.

  97. call me dave says:

    Geez! Boris demanding a post EU Brexit Plan. Auntie news!

    Blair want’s to keep our options open…EU referendum rerun is a possibility.

    and so it goes… 🙂

  98. Grouse Beater says:

    The obnoxious Cock of the Rock is back – yet again.

    He’s reposted his crapology from the last but one topic to enrage here. He knows absolutely nothing about anything, but is certain to rail at any advance the SNP makes.

    Only a Ukip troll would demand to know who said talks are underway in Brussels to keep Scotland in the frame till we know we can secure independence. The idiot can’t even keep his intentions guarded for a minute.

    I’ll leave him to Ian.

    Here’s to next week .. you never know, Corbyn might do the right thing at last and punch Benn’s lights out, Theresa May admit an affair with Boris – British politics is a madhouse these days.

  99. Ian Brotherhood says:

    In late 2005 I sent a message of support to Rose Gentle. Her son was one of the first British troops to die in the Iraq ‘war’.

    This is her reply, precisely as she wrote it – Rose gave me permission to use this text as part of a course I was doing, years ago, with teenagers in Ayrshire schools, so I’m sure she won’t mind me posting it here:

    hi its rose

    no i will nivir give up when i got my boy home

    i kiss him in his coffin and i promist him,gordon i will

    not stop,,blair will have to kill me be for i do,

    97 troops have got killied for blairs lies,

    when i whent to america, thay had a cross for gordon

    it was so hard, but if i can stop one mum the hurt we have

    well i will do it, ,the mo,o.d have put a gag on me, but whot the

    hell i will not shut up.,i am going to have a camp gordon soon

    the only good thing is i was 13st now down to 10,ha.ha,

    one of our yung cusings hanged him celf in the army 4weeks

    a.gow, he was 19,,and the mod hate this,

    thanks you for emailing me and the suppotr

    keep in tuch


    bring our troops home X

  100. call me dave says:


    “Mr Salmond do you want Tony Blair ‘ex Prime Minister’ to be brought to court” asks Steven Nolan presenter radio 5.

    “I think he should be made to account” says Salmond and some labour MPs support me.

    Sound clip of Tony, who’s had the report for a week, when asked to apologise for Iraq says “Can’t comment but will make a statement later”

  101. Ruby says:

    I don’t want to spoil your love in with Iceland but did you know that the Icelandic Consul in Scotland is/was a Tory MSP.

    I’ve seen him in videos of the Referndum result and he is the one at the front cheering the loudest.

    Funnily enough that Icelandic flag hasn’t been flying lately it has been replaced with a great big Union flag.

  102. Ian Brotherhood says:

    If you encounter anyone, in the next few days, claiming that Iraq is better off than it would’ve been without our ‘intervention’, just send them this link:

  103. Ruby says:

    I just got a message when I tried to post my last comment that said
    ‘You are posting comments too quickly Slow down’

  104. Ruby says:

    Look here I am busy I need to post quickly and I would be obliged if you could get your finger out and upload my post a bit quicker!

    Thank you!

  105. Lizg says:

    Ian Brotherhood @ 11.14
    That’s heartbreaking,do you have any updates on how she’s getting on now

  106. Thepnr says:


    Lol that will be from the guy upgrading the Rev’s server. Check the Revs twitter feed.

  107. Lochside says:

    Tam Jardine…eloquently expressed Brother!…unless we as a nation exhibit that we have a real back-bone and show this bunch of aristocratic cretins that we will not tolerate being treated like lackeys and slaves..then we do not deserve to call ourselves Scots

    It’s no exaggeration to call up the spirit of Wallace and Bruce
    in this.. the dawning of our Nation’s moment of truth….do we stand united against the hegemony of bigotry and colonial oppression?….or do we lie supine as cowards… allowing the jugernaut of Westminster’s self-seeking deception and oppression to roll over us yet again?

    It’s time for us as a nation to stand up and assert ourselves as the inheritors and the defenders of our freedom, diversity and equality: Remember, Wallace and the enlightenment, just two examples of our strength and intellect.

    Time to be strong, assertive and visible…are you listening our Scottish Leaders?

  108. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Lizg –

    I was never in regular contact with Rose, but I’m sure we’ll see a lot of her, Reg Keays, and other bereaved parents over the next few days.

    Here’s hoping Jeremy Corbyn can hang on, at least until Thursday – it’s become pretty clear that his continued presence is a major headache for those who’d like the whole Iraq/Blair tragedy to be swept under the carpet as mere ‘history’.

  109. Valerie says:

    @Ian B

    I imagine next week will be very hard for Ms Gentle. However, from what I can gather, the Press claims nothing will be done to Blair, he’s Teflon Tony. Suggestions that soldiers could be charged.

    What a bloody mess, and we have so much more of this to look forward to, as the Middle East burns.

    Boris has written his Torygraph column for tomorrow, and its insulting, low grade stupidity, with lots of arrogance.

    Sets out his 5 points, he would enact. You set your country alight, your running mate stabs your back, your party rejects you, you need police to get to your car, but you rake thousands for writing masturbatory crud – when you are Bullingdon.

    I feel a mixture of anticipation to get working on indyref2, and lots of fear we won’t get out.

    Cat is right, we need to start doing bits of building now.

  110. Macart says:

    @Tam Jardine

    Good post Tam.

  111. tartanpigsy says:

    schrodingers cat says @10:21pm

    “re animate your own local yes groups, no one else will, there will be no leader of yes2scotland, only leaders of local grassroots groups.

    we plan to cover our area in car stickers, a4 and a3 window posters and yes saltires.
    where i live, the people will be in no doubt that indyref2 has started”

    We aim to provide the materials required 🙂

  112. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Agreed, Macart.

    Good post Tam!

  113. Ken500 says:

    The US gov gives a large amount of funds in investment and research. Silicon Valley etc. Then creates patents which creates a monopoly. They can then sell them anywhere in the world without completion for any price that they can get. Many of technology goods are extremely overprice. They particularly do it in Britain – shared language – for films and videos etc creates a large market. Providing on line service. Google etc. European countries have their own internet supplies.

    If individual countries tried to put up tarriffs etc. It would not make much difference to the US but a 500,000 joint possible market gives them much more concerns, US multinational dominate the markets and pay no taxes, making them more profitable and competitive. British companies who the UK Gov should be be supporting are disadvantaged along with less available jobs by unfair competition.

    These goods are over price but there is no competiton. They do it all over the world and evade taxes at home and away. They make vast profits and almost become a Law unto themselves. The US (China, India, Brazil large continents) puts up barriers and tarriffs etc To protect their markets. This makes it difficult for EU goods to be traded, or to free trade equally. i.e. They have Trade Laws that make it difficult to set up a business but it has to a with a joint business with a national/resident. or a subsidy register in the trading country. Or put a tariff on certain imported goods coming in to prevent there own manufactured goods. All/most Gov issue licences to trade or rules laying down basis of trade regulations. In the UK companies directors. Registration. Directors rules etc.

    Only own countries shares can be traded in their stock market. There are other regulatory rule for trading in other countries shares. Nomination they are bought and sold under a nominated person who meets the criteria. Stock brokers get licences to trade on the stock exchange have to be Millionaires to cover losses if any of their dealing go wrong and have huge insurance cover. They get a fee for each transaction.

    TTIP is an attempt by the EU as an collective (500Million people) to reach a deal were EU companies can trade freely in the US (pop 300 Million people) in equal condition. Get an equal share of the market. Rather than the EU start a trade war and put barriers and tariff on US goods. A trade war could damage both these large markets. The larger the market the bigger the damage trade barriers and tarriffs can cause. EU countries can gain from TTIP they will be able to trade in a large market with cheaper costs. Just like EU countries do in the EU. Free trade and movement.

    Scotland could benefit from TTIP there is a large diaspora in the US that would provide an increased customer base. Scotland already trades with the US – whisky and other high value goods. Tourism etc. Scotland could increase trade and profit. Any firm can sue or reach an agreement for compensation with a Gov. A Gov can sue or come to an agreement with a firm who breaks a contract. Unless they have no money left, or are bankrupt. No company can make a Government privatise their health care facilities, unless the Gov colluded. Companies and Gov should checks carefully any Contracts they sign and take out insurance cover to cover losses etc.

    Can’t believe Osbourne is taking Corp tax to 15%. It is 20% in most countries in Europe/world, it is a desperate movement. The rest of the U.K. Doesn’t collect enough taxes already to cover it’s out going. The Deficit in the rest of the UK is £75Billion ( with a £20Billion black hole – called would be expected growth)

    Osbourne is the one who put up taxes on the Oil sector in 2011 (£2Billion) to 80% The Oil price at $120 a barrel. The price fell down to 25%. He reduced it to 60%. Until Jan 2016 to 40% tax. Oil price increased to $50 a barrel. The gross mismanagement ruined the Scottish Oil sector, losing thousands of jobs. Losing £4Billion? a year revenues in Scotland. Revenues disappeared. The Scottish Gov told him to bring it down to save jobs and revenues. He would not do it quickly enough, The Oil sector is like a giant furnace. It takes years to close it down and years to bring it up again. Osbourne is an incompetent ignoramous like most Unionist politicians.

    Two years ago Scotland raise £54Billion with £4Billion Oil tax revenues. Last year Scotland raised £54Billion with no Oil revenues. The same. The UK had to import more Oil adding to the balance of payment deficit.

  114. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Valerie –

    We’ve had so many surprises, upsets and coupon-busters lately, who knows what might happen on Wednesday?

    I know what I would like to see happening, and there must be millions of people (well, at least as many as marched in London, Glasgow and elsewhere on that Saturday in Feb 2003) who feel likewise.

    We don’t have long to wait to find out. The very fact that Blair is still, apparently, in the UK, doesn’t bode well. If the verdict was at all damning then he’d be comfortably tucked-up in a Texas bolthole by now.

  115. Paula Rose says:

    Just so happy now – everyone OK?

  116. Ken500 says:

    Boris Johnston gets £1/2Million a year for writing his newspaper column. Plus other earning and expenses. Many of the crooks – banks etc – give vast donations to the Tory Party for favours and policy decisions.

    The SNP is funded by it’s members. It give the Officials, politicians the freedom to endorse policies which benefit Scotland, without favours,

    Davidson is just telling lies and trying to con people for support. There is no way she can support Independence. She is a member of a Party that is totally against it. Scotland can have a Ref anytime it likes. If they give a manifesto commitment and people vote for it. The people in Scotland are sovereign under the Law in Scotland under UK/EU Law. Self determination, That is why Cameron could not stop Indy1 and lied to try and stop YES. The VOW and promises of full FFA/Home rule/Federalism. All reneged upon. False promises.

  117. Ken500 says:

    Aye OK Don’t worry. Be happy. Exciting times.

  118. Petra says:

    @ Tam Jardine at 9:42pm ….

    Great post Tam …. as usual.


    @ Glamaig says at 9:14 pm …. ”Apologies if this has been posted before. Someone with experience of the economy of a small country with close ties to the UK. It’s good to see ScotGov take such decisive action, unlike the shambles at Westminster. I’ve been really proud to be Scottish, this last week, and depressed that I’m going abroad in September with a British passport.”


    Going abroad with a British passport Glamaig, as I will be doing next week too. Not for long, imo. In fact I’m looking forward to seeing what Scotland’s passport will look like. Plastered with the Saltire? Roll on the day.

    Really interesting link Glamaig. Nobel prize winners Mirrlees and Stiglitz still supporting Scotland. Great. Professor Ruane stating that the advisory panel will look at the economic implications of Brexit for Scotland and will additionally consider Scotlands trade with the rest of the UK.

    Let’s hope that when their report is released their findings will put paid to the ‘Scotland as poor as Greece’ myth. More than anything shut Rooth the Mooth up.


    ”Scottish first minister Nicola Sturgeon has appointed a prominent Irish economist to a panel of experts to advise the government in Edinburgh on the implications of the Brexit referendum result.

    Frances Ruane, Honorary Professor of Economics at Trinity College Dublin and a former director of the Economic, Social and Research Institute (ESRI), will join a number of Scottish and international experts on the panel, which is expected to begin its work in the coming weeks……

    Prof Ruane has for the past six years been a member of the Scottish administration’s Council of Economic Advisers, which advises ministers on how best to improve Scotland’s competitiveness and tackle inequality in the country. The council’s members, drawn from academia, business and public sector, include the Nobel prize winners Sir James Mirrlees and Joseph Stiglitz ….

    Prof Ruane said she expected the advisory panel to look at the economic implications of Brexit for Scotland and at how Scotland could remain in the EU even if the UK left …..

    But we’ll also be looking at the implications [OF BREXIT] for Scotland, including its trade with the rest of the EU,” Prof Ruane said.”

  119. Caledonius says:

    @Ian B

    I appreciate all the info on Iraq and Rosie. Utterly sickening, beyond tragic. I recall I was at my third year in Glasgow Uni when the invasion happened – I had never been so enraged at the UK before in my life, and it was at that moment my faith in the Labour party was destroyed. I wrote to my Labour MSP but got no response. At least the SNP, who I didn’t trust before this, tried to make a stand.

    From old BBC report:

    By John Knox
    BBC Scotland political reporter

    Tony Blair has received endorsement for his stance on Iraq from a majority of MSPs at Holyrood.

    The Scottish National Party had hoped to embarrass the prime minister by winning a debate at Holyrood over a matter which is, strictly, reserved to Westminster.

    In the event, the SNP motion was defeated by 16 votes.

    The Labour Party closed ranks and its MSPs were joined by the Tories in supporting the UK Government’s line that Saddam Hussein must get rid of his weapons of mass destruction or face invasion.

    The Joke dossier, lack of support from the rest of the world, mass anti-war protests… nothing was going to get in the way of ‘Shock and Awe’. It’s a disgrace it’s taken this long for at least some of the truth to be made official.

  120. Petra says:

    Great article by Wee Ginger Dug: ‘Project Fear’s poverty porn.”

    ”We’re just one week after the UK’s decision to nuke itself in the foot with Brexit, the Scottish Government hasn’t made any decisions about how Scotland is going to respond, but already the British establishment is mounting Project Fear Mark III in an attempt to prevent any possibility of Scotland going independent. They seem even more terrified of Scottish independence than they do of the UK leaving the EU, from which we can only conclude that despite the scare stories, Scottish independence is going to cost them dear …..

    The UK Unionist media likes to make out that it will be little Scotland with its 5 million people up against the might of rUK with its 60 million. They don’t want Scotland to remember that as a part of the EU we will have 500 million friends. In trade negotiations between rUK and iScotland, it will be iScotland which has the upper hand ….

    Here Scotland is in a quiet and stable corner of the globe, we’re blessed with an embarrassment of natural resources, a highly educated population, four of the world’s top universities, more oil, gas, coal, and renewable energy supplies than we know what to do with, almost self-sufficient in food supplies, fresh water that falls out the skies in annoyingly enormous amounts. If you wanted a recipe for a stable, prosperous, democratic, independent state, you’d list Scotland’s ingredients ….

    But the Unionists who make these claims never pause to think who is responsible for this sorry state of affairs. Because the only answer possible is that it’s the Unionist establishment which has run Scotland’s economy for the past 300 years ….

    So Unionists, do yourselves a favour, stop embarrassing yourselves with the Project Fear poverty porn. No one is listening any more. If you want to make a case against independence, try making a positive case for the Union instead of blaming Scotland for your own failures.”

  121. ronnie anderson says:

    Democresy in Action.

    People vote to leave EU. Corperate Londinioum challenge peoples rights under the unwritten constitution ( or that they make up as it suites them).

    Remind me whats the House of COMMONS about & who is it supposed to represent.

    Dont feking knock on they big doors wey yer Baton, its the COMMON peoples turn tae knock the doors, wie ah Bloody Big SledgeHammer.

  122. Petra says:

    ‘Your Next Prime Minister.’

    ”I have decided – reluctantly but firmly – that this is hilarious. The Tory right, having sabotaged Britain for their bitter ideology are now destroying their own party. Oh sweet karma. Alpha Oaf Boris has zip-wired into such chaos that even a battery of ridiculous photo opportunities can’t save him, and we the Great British People are left with a cluster of candidates so loathsome and useless to stretch credulity. One of this staggering brood will lead this party into electoral demise.

    We can only speculate about the real reasons behind Boris Johnson’s decision to withdraw from the Tory leadership contest, though the very closeness between Sarah Vine, the Daily Mail and Rupert Murdoch should give us a clue. In England in 2016 that’s what Taking Back Control really looks like.

    As Flashman staggers about Europe looking like a broken man, the chaos of his monumental misjudgement unfolds. Here are the candidates …”

  123. Liz g says:

    Funny the thing’s that stick though.
    Watching the live feed from Baghdad the night they started.
    All I could see were the traffic lights constantly changing, it was so normal looking…..and all I could think was….What if that was Glasgow…. Could not imagine being in a city wating on what they were about to do and unable to do a damm thing about it.
    Not been personally affected like Rosie and far too many others like her both here and there but…Jesus God it haunts me.
    What kind of mind orders That?

  124. Petra says:

    ‘Scotland is my home.’

    ”It felt like the sun had broken through the heavy clouds of an unexpected storm when Nicola Sturgeon made her statement the morning after the Brexit referendum.

    As a New Scot and EU migrant, her direct message to us brought a tear to my eye – and I know many Scots, old and new, felt the same. It was such a contrast to the UK politicians and media that didn’t seem to care about us ….

    Back in 2014, I know many EU citizens felt that voting No was the safe option because it guaranteed continued EU membership, and some also misunderstood the nature of Scottish nationalism, mistakenly believing it was similar to far-right movements in their home countries. I was passionately pro-Yes, but opinion polls showed that EU citizens were almost evenly split, just like the rest of Scotland.

    If Indyref 2 gets called soon, all of this will have changed. All EU citizens will know that voting Yes will be the best way to ensure their adopted home remains within the EU. And Nicola’s fantastic speeches and European diplomacy have shown the whole world that Scottish nationalism is an outwards-looking, civic nationalism that welcomes foreigners.

    This means that EU citizens in Scotland are almost certain to vote Yes enthusiastically and in great numbers to help bring about an independent Scotland within the EU.”

  125. Valerie says:

    It’s not just that Blair is front and centre everywhere, he is actually suggesting he will get involved as a Brexit negotiator!!!

    It’s like living in a parallel universe, where ordinary honest people, just sit in the stalls spectating, as criminals like this f**k us over, because their mega ego just propels them.

    Like Boris,just acting like nothing has happened.

    Just saw on Twitter. They will need to advertise for a legion of expert trade negotiators from India, China etc. because there is nothing like it in the country.

    It’s surreal.

  126. Onwards says:


    “This means that EU citizens in Scotland are almost certain to vote Yes enthusiastically and in great numbers to help bring about an independent Scotland within the EU.”

    You would assume that, but I imagine the percentage of EU citizens living here who don’t vote is higher than average. Especially if they only see themselves as here for a few years.

    I think a huge campaign to encourage postal voting could be helpful this time. If it isn’t practical to restrict it, we should embrace it. Instead of chasing up votes on the day, chase up potential pro-YES postal votes including EU nationals, young voters, and everyone who has ever shown interest at a street stall etc

  127. yesindyref2 says:

    @Rock: “It would be utter madness for the Scottish Parliament to block Brexit and let Westminster off the hook

    Firstly Holyrood can not block Brexit, what it can do is refuse consent to ahving the Scotland Act amended which would probably precitpitate a consitutional crisis – which is good for us.

    Secondly the whole current reason for Indy Ref 2 is the 62% Remain vote, so the Scottish Government is hardly likely to support Brexit for some unknown “hook”.

  128. yesindyref2 says:

    @Kevin Evans
    The reason your workmate can work he is because he is an EU citizen and the UK including Scotland is in the EU, so there’s freedom of movement. When the UK Brexits, the UK won’t be in the EU so that freedom of movement will probably go, so your workmate will have to quit his job and go home.

    But if it’s a YES vote and Scotland gets Independence, it’s looking very probable Scotland will stay in the EU, so your workmate will be able to stay in Scotland and keep his job.

    If he votes NO on the other hand he’s voting to give himself the sack.

  129. Macbeda says:

    Postal votes need to be sorted out for Indyref2.

    I think the current system is too lax and open to abuse.

    Second/ holiday homes need to be filtered out to avoid double votes from households. There are a lot of second home in Scotland, especially in places like Argyll and Bute.

  130. Breeks says:

    I don’t quite see how Brexit will see existing migrants repatriated where they have lives in a “foreign” country. I see how it will affect new migrants trying to come here, and some businesses which are affected by trade, but isn’t it likely that European citizens already living or studying in the UK would have their circumstances looked upon sympathetically?
    That assumes of course that muppets like Farage don’t compell people to leave and suffer the same fate upon Brits living abroad.

    We are so close to Independence… but I feel there will be no respite for us until its in the back of the net. I fear nothing, except the media. I think it is safe to say we underestimated its impact in 2014 and paid the price. It is a solid breakwater against which many correct and proper YES arguments floundered and will flounder second time around too.

    I don’t know whether it would be creating just another evil empire swamped with propaganda, probably so, but maybe not, but just imagine how much stronger our hand would be if Europe had its own pan European news network broadcasting European news and current affairs, and breaking the BBC’s monopoly. Suppose member states weren’t obliged to carry it, but it was heavily recommended.

    Perhaps if the UK as a whole had not been drip fed poison about all things European by the BBC but had access to wider and more balanced perspectives from a European news channel, then UKIP and the Eurosceptics would still be an embarrasing side show of cranks and bigotted eccentrics.

    I’m not sure. How would you feel if Scotland was to trailblaze its way into Europe carrying a torch for a EuroTV broadcasting station and news network? If anybody can make the case for one its surely Scotland isn’t it? The opportunites it presented could be mind blowing. Imagine too, if EuroTV was to be established and headquartered here in Scotland…

    Premier jobs for our language students, a vital node for European integration and Scotland having a platform for the broadcast of sanity in an ever changing world.

    Stage 1 as ever… get the Indy ball into the damned net.

  131. Breeks says:

    There is already “Euronews” which seems to be online more than Broadcast…

    In the light of Brexit, maybe the EU wouldn’t take much persuasion to help set up a pan European broadcasting TV news channel and throw some funding in its direction.

    If Scotland was to become a BBC free zone, there would be a vacuum needing filled married to a growing demand, (and a golden opportunity for say someone like STV to do themselves a massive favour and get in at the ground level, assuming of course that an independent Scotland had confidence it could rely on STV… cough! Cough! Hint. Hint).

  132. Effijy says:

    Gideon Osborne is now filling the pockets of his Corporate friends by reducing UK Corporation Tax?

    You may recall that when the Scottish Government proposed a
    cut, they were shot down by Osborne for giving the rich a
    Tax cut in a time of austerity?

    This was sending Scotland on a race to the bottom apparently!

    What make this all the more insane was Gideon’s Scaremongering before the EU referendum when he clearly told us that a Brexit vote would Tax rises for us all.

    I wonder if the Hundred Political Broadcasters at the BBC
    will challenge him on this? No me neither.

    UK Corporations already have a pot of £700 Billion in profits that they are not re-investing so this cut will do nothing for the ordinary tax payer who will have to pay
    for their windfall.

    Farage has already insulted the EU, and this too will seem like an act of aggression as it is an attempt to attract business away from the EU members, before any possible friendly exit negotiations could begin.

    Scotland must remove itself from self destruct Westminster ASAP!

  133. Almannysbunnet says:

    This should get a few votes heading our way. The next time someone tells you they can’t be bothered voting or their vote doesn’t count show them Vince!

  134. Ken500 says:

    The reason people in the North of England voted out of the EU is because of Westminster Tory ‘austerity’ and Westminster’s forever lies. Westminster centralist economic policies which benefit London S/E and add to the congestion in the south damaging the economy and the scorch earth policies in the North which have so badly affected the economy. The Tories have once again taken from the poorest to fund the wealthiest. Without any comprehension of how that affects the communities. Sanction the vulnerable and starving them to death at home and abroad. The very people they were elected to protect. They are despicable..

    Osbourne’s policies have badly affected Scotland. The SNP Gov have mitigated the worse of the effects by allocating Scottish resources where they are most needed. Even with not enough control over relevant powers. The worst affects have been alleviated by SNP policies. . The ‘bedroom tax’, the cuts to welfare benefits, £100Million, social care for the elderly, bus passes, student loans, more nursery places and apprenticeships.

    Osbourne damages major industry in Scotland, with high taxes and increase imports of Oil and Gas. The Tories high taxes and no enterprise. Putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt. Losing Scotland £4Billion+ a year. When Scotland votes for Independence, within the EU limited (protection), Scotland will benefit for increase EU investment often blocked by Westminster’s ignorance and indecision. Direct trade routes will open up as a result. Without middleman expense and delay.

    The SNP have dispersed investment funds all,over Scotland, not just the Central Belt. Invested in essential, roads, rail lines, schools, hospital and increased necessary spending on the NHS saved by intergrating social care.

    Osbourne intends to spend £200Bilion on HS2. It will be over budget and overtime. A ‘white elephant’ with no business case to benefit London S/E and increase congestion. Make journey’s more expensive to save 20 mins. Onward journey’s would take longer connection so any time benefits are lost. Instead of improving the present rail line. This would be more cost affective, save time and have immediate effect. Increase the time saved on direct journeys.

    £200Billion on Hinkley Power Station a disaster waiting to happen. Over time and over budget and unsafe with no where to dispose of the waste but overseas. Other alternative schemes a Tridal barrage etc would disperse investment and funds in renewables all over Britain. The Tories banned wind turbines in England, Banned coal plentiful all over Britain. Westminster indecision and time wasting refused the opportunity of Grant for coal CSS.,

    Osbourne is cutting welfare benefits and starving people in the North to death. Cutting spending in their economy and increasing the wealth in the south. Increasing the NorthSouth divide. The working class in England are once again been conned Into voting for Tory policies which will damage their lives further. The migrant crisis in Europe is caused by Westminster illegal wars and illegally bombing the Middle East for years. So Westminster Unionist politicians and there associates can embezzle and defraud public funds with impunity while sanctioning and starving innocent people to death. Making the world a much more dangerous unstable place. Damaging the world economy.

    Many people feared a Tory Gov, elected by electoral fraud, for the damage they could cause. No one expected the carnage they could cause so soon. In one year they have destroyed the British/world economy. There’s is something seriously wrong with the English education system. How the wealthy can buy 1st Class Ocbridge degrees. Oxford University funded 200 to 1 of any other education institutions, by public money. The unworthy, dishonourable calibre of the graduates. Liars, fraudsters, murderers and thieves getting away with murder. With absolutely no compassion or empathy for others. An epidemic constitutional crisis of harmful, undeserved elite and privilege. The ‘divine right to abuse’, without exemption.

  135. galamcennalath says:

    Breeks says:

    “If Scotland was to become a BBC free zone, there would be a vacuum needing filled”

    We need a Scottish public broadcaster with a charter which legally forces impartiality. We need broadcasting which tells the good news as well as the bad, and promotes no political party. It should be the voice of the people, not the state.

    When UK assets are divied up, Scotland will take over all BBC presence here. Keep the technical and admin staff. Sack all the presenters and ‘correspondents’. They can re-apply for jobs, if their CVs are clean.

    As far as drama, entertainment, etc. some can be sourced from abroad, popular BBC shows for instance, but I do hope more is produced here. Look at the amazing dramas small Nordic countries can produce.

  136. Nana says:

    Cheers Brian, good job.

  137. Ken500 says:

    Thank you Rev Stu – Wings and all who contribute. Thanks a Billion for helping to keep people sane. When a Tory Gov is making people ill and sick with worry, damaging people’s lives.

    Thanks a Billion Nicola, Alex and Co for all you do, to try and help people’s lives. Thanks for ever. Honourable people.

    May Thatcher another Cruella de Ville. Courtesy of the vile criminal Murdoch and the tax evading associates who are lying, cheating murderers. A conspiracy of low lives. Most of them should be put in jail.

  138. Nana says:

    Way off topic into the future

    I was sent this at the weekend, sharing as I think some of you will find it as interesting as I do.

  139. Nana says:

    As Chilcot has been mentioned further up the thread here is the 2nd part of the Chilcot guide by James Cusick.

  140. Cash_x says:

    A translation of sorts Nana..
    Don’t know if it complies with the death of a thousand hammer blows…but there it is.

    that’s nicola sturgeon, the woman that wants to keep scotland in the eu?
    on 23 june, the united kingdom voted 52% from the european union. however, while 53 per cent of english checked box leave scotland opted to remain at 62%. the first minister of scotland, nicola sturgeon will do everything to ensure that the will of the people to be heard and to cause a second referendum. who is that woman also fear in westminster and admired at home?
    a week after the vote in the referendum on the maintenance of the united kingdom to the european union, nicola sturgeon is determined to questions raised by members of the scottish parliament. it is a task in which each week for 30 minutes.
    between the two responses on the future of the health service or fishing zones, the first minister, don’t hesitate to scratch his opponents: “they are the conservatives, who led the country to the brink of disaster. the projection is deeply welcomed by almost all the audience.
    a few minutes later, nicola sturgeon said: she said that the tories should be ashamed to show “and” a bit of humility. ” the scottish executive, burning eyes and face severe, quote: “yeah” – a. in a manner similar to that of a young activist with the last word we pub at the university. this character, in this way, it is the american public opinion.
    in november 2005, a year after taking power, the man was, according to a survey yougov favorite personality “, the tennis player andy murray. a popularity that david cameron would not even dare to dream. it should be said that the leader of the scottish national party’s background is quite different from that of the conservative elites in westminster.
    duran duran and culture club
    far from eton college, the school attended by david cameron, and fancy boris johnson, nicola sturgeon at the greenwood academy, a school (irvine, a town park in the west of scotland. the old professor, roy’s, described in an article in the bbc released in 2014 as a young woman, polite, hardworking, serious enough, but that you could still laugh.
    the daughter of an electrician and a dental nurse, sturgeon in politics in adolescence. one year after joining the scottish national party (snp). in 1986, she went to knock on the door of karl ulrich, member of the uk independence party for a long time. she, she says, “mr ulrich, i could help you with your campaign? my name is nicola sturgeon. ”
    at this time, the child is 16 years old and younger than his age. it is the hair cut, in full closed until the last button polo shirt. what is the look of his hero pops: wham, culture club, and duran duran.
    despite initial setbacks, the snp’s good policy, nicola sturgeon is committed within the party and campaign for nuclear disarmament, one of his favorite themes in the school. to promote his ideas, it is moving towards a law degree at the university of glasgow. here, too, it seems to maintain a balance between serious and fun. david torrance, author of nicola sturgeon: a political life, which came out in january 2015, says:

    “in glasgow, she loved to dance from time to time. but not too much to let go. it has at least two friends, both related to snps. but for political reasons, it has not been. she read a lot, especially thrillers and historical biographies.
    nicola sturgeon, devotes his life to his ideas and the party. a year after meeting her future husband, the current director general of the snp, peter murrell. in 2003, she became the vice president of the nationalist movement. his mentor, alex salmond, newly elected head of the party has yet to be elected to the house of commons for three years. she took the leadership of the group and snp in parliament.

    To comply with its new function, it underwent a restyling in which she was previously reluctant, according to David Torrance. “She did not want to comply with the codes. But from this point on, and then becoming deputy prime minister in 2007, she began to take his appearance more seriously. And then she started to wear designers, and has changed hairstyle. She is aware of the importance of sound in modern politics, while noting that these expectations were even greater for women.”
    Biting of chips
    According to his close collaborators, Nicola Sturgeon has certainly changed her wardrobe, but not really his personality. Former representative SNP in Scotland, the North-East, Christian Allard said :
    “There are a dozen years I took my children to a meeting in Edinburgh. It was eating the French fries when Nicola bent down to steal a to my daughter. They couldn’t believe that a woman so extraordinary could be so ordinary.”
    An anecdote, which reminds us of several. As in 1996, when Nicola Sturgeon, political journey to Melbourne dry a conference to go see Trainspotting in the cinema. One side madame-all-the world which, according to Christian Allard, differs from his predecessor : “I’ve done a lot of campaigning with Alex Salmond. As soon as he was in the street, people attroupaient to him, as if they idolâtraient. Conversely, a day in the main street of Aberdeen, Nicola has preferred to walk than to take her official car of first minister. With Nicola, there is a spirit of equality and people understand it, they let it go to work. This is wonderful, the fact that they can approach when they want to.”
    A new indyref in two years ?
    Woman of the people, Nicola Sturgeon has also its historical results in the failure of the political class in london. Professor of sociology at the University of Edinburgh, David McCrone, confirms :
    “She is in the right place at the right time. She took advantage of the weakness and failure abject of the other leaders : Cameron will be remembered as the one who destroyed the relationship of the British with the EU and Scotland, by pure stupidity. Corbyn is it that an opponent professional.”

    While chaos reigns in London, where Boris Johnson finally withdrew from the race to Downing Street – the SNP gives the impression of control. McCrone adds : “The Scotland advance in terms of governance. Sturgeon has made the SNP a force of the centre-left, capable and competent to govern. She knows that she must build a coalition of social, winning the vote of the party of the middle classes who voted No the last time.”
    According to Christian Allard, the party had considered every scenario and Nicola Sturgeon stood ready in the event of a vote to leave. For some, opportunism, for others the political sense. This Thursday, June 30, a spokesman for the SNP revealed to The Scotsman that a new referendum on independence could be held within two years. Despite the fear-mongering that reigned on the continent, supporters of Nicola Sturgeon see the Brexit as an opportunity to build a different Europe.
    David McCrone concludes : “It is a pivotal moment in european history. The 50 years that come will not be like the past 50 years.” A new Europe, with Scotland. With Nicola Sturgeon.

  141. Les Wilson says:

    Call Kaye, she is pushing the Brexit idea big time, propaganda to keep the uppity Scots in line. EU no good at trade deals, other countries make better deals outside the EU…. blah blah.

    All to keep us in place, yet again. BBC a F…ing disgrace.
    Scotland will be sooo much better out of the UK and in the EU.
    We would have to pay around 10% of our income into it, but would get a chunk of that back.

    Compare it with what we get back by the UK sharing system, which is heavily biased towards England. Thus it has always been, the EU for us, is a no brainer.

  142. marydoll says:

    Les Wilson

    I made a complaint to BBC re the content of the programme.
    Interesting thing is though I chose Radio Scotland as the subject of my complaint – the Call Kaye programme was not one of the choices given for complaint.

    Is she not a favourite any more?
    Hope she goes the way of Scotland 2016 and SP

  143. Grouse Beater says:

    Breeks; “We need a public broadcaster with a charter which legally forces impartiality.”

    To the contrary, Breeks –
    We desire a broadcaster that is 100% devoted to Scotland and Scottish life here and abroad. Impartiality is a fool’s paradise.

    End of (As they say.)

  144. Jim Thomson says:

    @Les Wilson & @marydoll

    I heard the trailer for CK (wi’ an “e”) and immediately thought “here we go again, full on BritNat propaganda, BBC at its finest”.

    Luckily, I managed to switch off radio in time and move to a different room. Still seething though.

  145. manandboy says:

    A very interesting read, Nana. But while this may be the future of technology, Alliance Steel seem to have overlooked the people of the future? Is the insane desire for ever greater wealth and power by the 1% going to increase unchecked until every society on earth is completely mired in austerity and poverty ?

    Until this generation addresses and then moderates the consequences of the correlation between the love of money and evil, I suspect the future may not turn out as Alliance Steel Trading expects.

  146. Capella says:

    @ Nana
    that alliancesteeltrading item is fascinating. Already shared it.

    Interesting article in bilbo on lying journalists failing to challenge the rubbish “economists” spout.
    Scroll down to comments too. There’s a nice wee clip of Tommy Douglas “The Story of Mouseland”. Can’t do video links on my tablet. 4 mins.

  147. Breeks says:

    Nana @ 9:14

    Those predictions are inspiring, but there is always a price to pay. Our motor skills and cultures as people, such as painting, drawing, carpentry, stonemasonry, blacksmithing, driving,… the list is endless, but the skills which evolved over centuries will be lost in one generation.

    Nowadays we can watch Ray Mears running about UK forests surviving on fieldcraft and knowledge that kept people from starving for a thousand years but hasn’t been mainstream for centuries or important enough to be remembered. I have big trouble letting go of knowledge on the grounds of it being obsolete, but maybe thats just me being obsolete myself.

    I like the part about the space station that can 3d print its own spares and save weight, but I’ve also heard of the same technology in US aircraft carriers 3d printing drones and cruise missiles.

    All we need are 3d printers that make 3d printers and we can all put our feet up, kick back and watch the stars go by.

    But I’m not so sure. When you take the time to visit a medieval cathedral, sticks and stones essentially, but there is something inspiring and exquisitely beautiful about they way it is all put together that still touches the soul of an ardent athiest. All of it achieved with human imagination, dexterity, and committed application.

    It’s difficult to put into words; sometimes you wonder just who it is that’s living in the dark ages.

    If I was a Martian coming to Earth, I wouldn’t say take me to your leader. I’d say take me to whoever it was built that cathedral over there. And that’s the obvious problem…

  148. heedtracker says:

    BBC Scotland is stuffed with toryboys like this one. Or, how far right can you get in the scotland region, in a 15 minute coffee break?

    “Corbyn is an egomaniac who – it’s now clear – sees intimidation as a legitimate political tool. He and his closest confidantes are living out a fantasy of revolution, seemingly modelled on the worst of the historical hard-left. For this, they deserve our contempt.”

    alexmassie ?@alexmassie Jul 2
    alexmassie Retweeted Jeremy Corbyn MP
    A mandate to lead the party isn’t a mandate to be hopeless and lead the party off an electoral cliff.alexmassie added,
    Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn
    I’m ready to reach out to Labour MPs, but they also need to respect our party’s democracy.

    Do progressive liberal lefties in England wonder why neo fascism UKOK style is piling in to JC too?

    Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 49m49 minutes ago
    My party is dying, and the people trying to save it are being vilified. I’m angry and ashamed, but I am also resolute. Decency will win.

  149. North Chiel says:

    ” call Kaye” , new theme today ” EC baad”

  150. Dr Jim says:

    Well I’ve been listening to Call Kaye and I’m totally convinced now that Brexit was the right thing to do because of the Vacuum Cleaners
    The EU has completely disregarded Britains will over vacuum cleaner power, we should have had more power over vacuum cleaners and the EU removed our inalienable right to have that

    And another thing, these countries aren’t happy and that makes Britain not happy because of the war and now they’ve made all the rules to make us not happy

    So taking into consideration the UKIP man’s toaster as well I’ve seen the light and am in the process of booking myself into hospital to have a Partial Lobotomy so that all decisions taken in the future by the UK government will sound lovely to me even though I know their lying to me I know we’re better together being ruled by an English government

    In the future I will be listening more to the real people

    I allus thought Scotland was part of England but we should letem go and make a big fence right accross t top of t country and block em off

  151. Nana says:


    I believe progressive governments are looking to provide a living wage. I think the Scotgov are looking into this. There was a vote recently in Switzerland which sadly the people did not support.

    Let us hope when and if our government take this idea forward people will be more open and inclined to consider the future.

    If governments are not open to the needs of the people I dread to think what will happen. Just recently this

    Thanks for that link.

  152. marydoll says:


    I’ve just read the article by Euan Mccolm – its a disgraceful article and now I know the Scotsman can get no lower.
    Get us out of this UK

  153. Ruby says:

    During the IndyRef when Alex Salmond was accused of lying about EU membership and the UK Gov refused to approach the EC for a definitive answer and instead hired a couple of lawyers costing tax payers £millions (undisclosed) to tell us that Scotland ceased to exist and become lesser England in 1707 did Alex Salmond not tell us that ‘Scotland would be held in a transistional holding pen to avoid the absurd out and then in process” or something like that?

    Barrosso’s predictions seemed to be way off the mark I just wonder if he like the two lawyers who told us Scotland was extinguished in 1707 was perhaps also paid a good few £million.

    Anyone heard anything about Labour’s Catherine Stihler she seems to have gone very quiet!

  154. Nana says:


    Not so very long ago I would have dismissed anyone telling me body parts such as joints would be 3d printed.

    My youngest son went through university learning all these new technologies and to him and his generation this is now commonplace and getting better & faster all the time. They look to the future and sometimes don’t consider what may be lost with the march for progress.

    Personally given the choice of going to watch 3d printing and visiting a beautiful building there is no contest.

  155. Ruby says:

    marydoll says:
    4 July, 2016 at 10:42 am


    I’ve just read the article by Euan Mccolm – its a disgraceful article and now I know the Scotsman can get no lower.
    Get us out of this UK

    Ruby replies

    I got a quick glance of a David Torrance article in the Herald with comments closed and decided to put David Torrance on my ‘Barbara Cartland’ list. Had there been comments I might have read them. The comments on The Herald are not totally like The Scotsman’s comments yet but they are getting close so perhaps comments being closed is no great loss.

    FYI My ‘Barbara Cartland’ list consists of authors/journalists/posters I do not read.

    I lot of these British journalists are on my BC list I find I’m drawn more to the non fiction foreign authors.

    I’m off to read the French/Spanish press.

    Hasta luego!
    à tout à l’heure

  156. sandycraig says:

    What a dick Vince from Hull is. ” I thought Scotland was part of England “.

    I was 5 years old when I first went to England to visit my cousins and I knew then we were separate countries.

    Does he really have his own business?

  157. Jack Murphy says:

    OT. Nigel Farage to resign as UKIP Leader!
    “Nigel Farage says he is standing down as leader of the UK Independence Party.

    Mr Farage said his “political ambition has been achieved” with the UK having voted to leave the EU.

    He said the party was in a “pretty good place” and said he would not change his mind about quitting as he did after the 2015 general election.”

    Another one walking away.

    Independence for Scotland in Europe. 🙂

    BBC Archived:

  158. yesindyref2 says:

    @Les Wilson
    Nowhere near 10% we’d have to pay the EU, it’s around 1%.

    The UK’s assessed contribution was about £18 billion, GDP around £1800 billion, Scotland’s share of that £18 billion would be £1.5 billion and our GDP is around £150 billion.

    But we’d get a lot back, so our nett contribution would be a lot less.

  159. yesindyref2 says:

    Not a bad article from Torrance, he’s improving a bit lately: “These are not random phrases – the First Minister isn’t known for loose talk – but carefully-chosen lines directed at Edinburgh’s financial sector and the City of London. And as the City-based (but Aberdeen-born) communications consultant Iain Anderson observed last week, “firms have been hanging on to her every word”.

    He didn’t like Salmond, but likes Sturgeon, despite himself!

  160. Les Wilson says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    If that is right, then fair enough but I heard that figure going around. Given, as I said, we would get a chunk of that back ( how much I do not know) but it would be a fair bit.

    Even if it was 10%, then less funding we would receive, it would still be a win win. Considering how much the UK drains from us for their own purposes.

  161. yesindyref2 says:

    The 10% figure would have been put around by someone in Leave, same as they’re saying now “around2 out of 5” in Scotland voted to Leave. No, the figure is 38% – not much more than 1 out of 3, to use a similar distortion. It is definitely around 1%, I checked this out Indy ref 1.

    The UK doesn’t get a lot of funding it should get, or messes it up because of its contantly fighting attitude. Whereas the likes of Belgium quietly get together with other like-minded smaller states, and notn only go for all funding, but argue the case for other funds to be set up. Scotland would be one of these, engaging with the EU, not fighting it all the time. And our vote would be sought for “big stuff”, by the likes of Germany, France, Italy. Now, have we got a deal for them …

  162. yesindyref2 says:

    The thing is that the UK is stuffed full of itself, and doesn’t want to be seen as holding out a begging bowl. What the likes of Cameron and all say is “We can handle this, everthing is under control”. But one point of the EU is to provide help in emergencies, like flooding – the broad shoulders of the EU!

    So for instance the UK should say “We have flooding, and limited resources to handle, any help is appreciated”. But it’s too stuck up to do that. It was the same for the flooding in the East of England some years ago. Bloody stupid country [1].

    [1] Yes, I do call the UK a country, because people think of it as their country, and that’s a definition of “country”.

  163. Rock says:

    Grouse Beater,

    “Only a Ukip troll would demand to know who said talks are underway in Brussels to keep Scotland in the frame till we know we can secure independence. The idiot can’t even keep his intentions guarded for a minute.”

    Even UKIP trolls wouldn’t lie as blatantly as YOU did:

    Grouse Beater,

    “An EC commissioner states:

    “Discussions on transitional arrangements for an indy Scotland to remain in the EU after the UK leaves – are indeed taking place in Brussels.””


    “Any idea which EU commissioner STATED that?

    And the media in which the quoted statement was reported?”

    Grouse Beater,

    “Yes. But you can do your own homework.”


    “There is absolutely no way a NAMED EU commissioner would have STATED that.

    Prove me wrong by naming the Commissioner who said it and in which media it was reported.”

    Grouse Beater,

    “No one here is answerable to you, a discredited troll. You know what you can do with your trolling and bullying. Only check first for a dead squirrel blocking it.”

    You have been caught out LYING, so you resort to personal abuse.

  164. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Rock.

    My understanding of EU commissioners is that they are, basically, civil servants. Thus, they can’t offer opinions on anything.

    But… it would appear that Scotland is being looked on favourably, by those who CAN offer a public opinion.

    These may help…

  165. Rock says:

    Brian Doonthetoon,

    “Hi Rock.

    My understanding of EU commissioners is that they are, basically, civil servants. Thus, they can’t offer opinions on anything.”

    Yes, that is why Grouse Beater was blatantly lying when he posted:

    “An EC commissioner states:

    “Discussions on transitional arrangements for an indy Scotland to remain in the EU after the UK leaves – are indeed taking place in Brussels.””

    He then claimed he knew which commissioner:


    “Any idea which EU commissioner STATED that?

    And the media in which the quoted statement was reported?”

    Grouse Beater,

    “Yes. But you can do your own homework.”

    He has been throwing insults at me because he has been caught out lying.

  166. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Rock.

    I like the moniker you have had bestowed upon you – “SensibleRock”.

  167. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Even UKIP trolls wouldn’t lie as blatantly as YOU did:”

    I’m getting a little tired of the increasingly abusive comments between certain people in recent days, and particularly when (as in this case) they’re just cut-and-pasted repeats of previous abusive comments.

    By all means disagree with each other and challenge each other, but keep it civil – which for the avoidance of doubt means not calling each other either “liars” or “trolls”. If everyone concerned doesn’t watch their step there’ll be hammers.

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